[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                    SALUTING SERVICE: SUPPORTING VETERAN 
                          OWNED SMALL BUSINESSES

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                             UNITED STATES
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              HEARING HELD
                              MAY 24, 2023

                               __________

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                       
                               
            Small Business Committee Document Number 118-014
             Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
             
                              __________

                                
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
52-171                       WASHINGTON : 2023                    
          
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                   HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

                    ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman
                      BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
                        PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
                        DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
                         BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
                         MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
                          TRACEY MANN, Kansas
                           JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
                        MARC MOLINARO, New York
                         MARK ALFORD, Missouri
                           ELI CRANE, Arizona
                          AARON BEAN, Florida
                           WESLEY HUNT, Texas
                         NICK LALOTA, New York
               NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member
                          JARED GOLDEN, Maine
                         KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
                        DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
                          GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
                       MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
                  MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ, Washington
                       HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan
                        SHRI THANEDAR, Michigan
                          JUDY CHU, California
                         SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
                      CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire

                  Ben Johnson, Majority Staff Director
                 Melissa Jung, Minority Staff Director
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Roger Williams..............................................     1
Hon. Nydia Velazquez.............................................     2

                               WITNESSES

Mr. Taylor Burks, President and General Manager, Rost 
  Landscaping, Columbia, MO......................................     6
Mr. Grant Quezada, Founder, Founding Fathers Collective, 
  Prescott, AZ...................................................     8
Ms. Liberty Weaver, Owner, Breakable Hearts LLC, Fernandina 
  Beach, FL......................................................     9
Mr. Michael Hyacinthe, Chief Executive Officer and Founder, 
  Wimage, Grand Rapids, MI.......................................    11

                                APPENDIX

Prepared Statements:
    Mr. Taylor Burks, President and General Manager, Rost 
      Landscaping, Columbia, MO..................................    47
    Mr. Grant Quezada, Founder, Founding Fathers Collective, 
      Prescott, AZ...............................................    49
    Ms. Liberty Weaver, Owner, Breakable Hearts LLC, Fernandina 
      Beach, FL..................................................    51
    Mr. Michael Hyacinthe, Chief Executive Officer and Founder, 
      Wimage, Grand Rapids, MI...................................    54
Questions for the Record:
    None.
Answers for the Record:
    None.
Additional Material for the Record:
    Mr. Cheston Syma, Marine Corps Veteran and Small Business 
      Owner......................................................    56

 
      SALUTING SERVICE: SUPPORTING VETERAN-OWNED SMALL BUSINESSES

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, MAY 24, 2023

                  House of Representatives,
               Committee on Small Business,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 2:01 p.m., in Room 
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Roger Williams 
[chairman of the Committee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Williams, Luetkemeyer, Stauber, 
Meuser, Van Duyne, Mann, Ellzey, Molinaro, Alford, Crane, Bean, 
Hunt, LaLota, Velazquez, Golden, Mfume, McGarvey, Gluesenkamp 
Perez, Scholten, Thanedar, Chu, Davids, and Pappas.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank the 
witnesses for being here. And I now call the Committee on Small 
Business to order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the Committee at any time.
    And I now recognize myself for my opening statement.
    Welcome to today's hearing, which will focus on supporting 
veteran-owned small businesses.
    Without our brave men and women serving in the Armed 
Forces, we would not be the country that we are today. Their 
service and willingness to pay the ultimate sacrifice are what 
always allows us here at home to carry on with our daily lives 
through everything from going to work and school to helping 
with our kids' little league games and everything in between. 
Our servicemembers run towards danger, defend our God-given 
freedoms in faraway lands, and protect us from those who seek 
to do us harm.
    Simply put, those who have served on the front lines to 
protect our nation are beacons of hope for our country, not 
only in the present but for the future generations of leaders, 
and serve as an example for others to follow in their 
footsteps.
    For the last 12 years, I have had the pleasure of 
representing the great place in Texas, Fort Cavazos, formerly 
known as Fort Hood. This is the largest military base in the 
country, and it is called home by over 30,000 Active Duty 
servicemembers. It is an honor every time I meet with them 
there, as they come from all walks of life, from all corners of 
our country.
    When I visit the base and sit down with our soldiers, it is 
inspiring to hear these people's stories and what they want to 
accomplish once they finish their military service. They and 
their families are nothing short of extraordinary. Their drive, 
dedication, and work ethic are all attributes we should all 
strive to have and all of which make our society a much better 
place.
    As they protect us and allow us to pursue our American 
Dreams, we have a responsibility to help them do the same after 
their service is complete. Military servicemembers are natural 
leaders who play a vital role in our economy. Our nation's 
heroes own close to 2 million businesses, nearly all of which 
are small businesses, and are 45 percent more likely to be 
self-employed than non-veterans.
    The federal government offers an array of programs that 
support servicemembers and their families if they are 
interested in creating their own small business.
    One of those programs is the Small Business 
Administration's Boots to Business initiative, which provides 
entrepreneurship training to transitioning servicemembers to 
help them reenter the workforce and give them the tools to 
start their own business. Since the program's inception in 
2013, over 150,000 servicemembers, veterans, and military 
spouses have participated in the Boots to Business program.
    I was fortunate enough to see firsthand the work this 
program does when I visited Fort Cavazos with Administrator 
Guzman this past March to listen to the amazing business ideas 
that many of our servicemembers have today.
    Our nation's brave servicemen and servicewomen are truly 
the bedrock of our country and put their lives on the line to 
defend our Constitution and freedom around the world.
    To conclude, I hope today's hearing can further assist our 
country's servicemen and -women in their transition to civilian 
life and to help them pursue their dreams here at home.
    God bless you all, and thank you for all you have done for 
our country.
    With that, I yield to our distinguished Ranking Member from 
New York, Ms. Velazquez.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you to the witnesses for being here today and to the 
Chairman for convening this hearing as we near Memorial Day, a 
time when our nation collectively honors the ultimate sacrifice 
made by so many in service to our country.
    Today, we turn our focus to those brave men and women who, 
having completed their military service, continue to serve our 
nation. Every year, more than 200,000 servicemembers transition 
to civilian life, carrying with them the invaluable skills and 
experiences gained during their years of service. Their 
unwavering courage, astute decision-making, and exceptional 
leadership abilities are enormous assets for starting a 
business.
    Our military members are not only among the most well-
equipped to overcome obstacles in resource-constrained 
environments, but they have also recognized entrepreneurship as 
a powerful form of social and economic service.
    According to the U.S. Census Bureau, over 2.4 million 
veteran business owners employ more than 5.7 million Americans 
and contribute approximately $1.2 trillion annually to our GDP.
    By all measures, veteran entrepreneurs are an integral part 
of our economic engine. By expanding entrepreneurial 
opportunities for transitioning servicemembers, we foster 
wealth creation and community development.
    In past hearings, we have discussed the unfortunate decline 
in self-employment rates among veterans, but there are some 
encouraging signs this may be reversing. Just as new business 
applications have surged by over 10 million in the past 2 
years, one survey found that the share of businesses started by 
veterans nearly doubled, from 5.4 percent in 2019 to 10.7 
percent.
    This is a tremendous achievement, but it does not mean the 
job is done. Veterans face more barriers to accessing capital, 
navigating the resources available to them, and finding 
adequate mentors.
    That is why the SBA has a range of programs to support 
veteran entrepreneurs, like the Boots to Business program, 
which this Committee voted yesterday to codify, and Veteran 
Business Outreach Centers that provided training to over 58,000 
veteran small-business owners throughout 2022.
    Two weeks ago, we heard from witnesses about the benefits 
of the Veteran Institute for Procurement, a program designed 
specifically to educate veterans on how to do business with the 
federal government from start to finish.
    Unfortunately, budget cuts demanded by Republicans in their 
``Default on America Act'' would reduce the SBA's budget by 22 
percent. This dramatic cut will significantly impact the 
ability to administer SBA programs benefiting millions of 
veterans.
    I encourage my colleagues to consider the consequences of 
the draconian cuts they are demanding while they hold our 
economy hostage. This does nothing but harm our country's 
veterans and veteran entrepreneurs. I hope we can come to a 
resolution without causing deep economic consequences.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    And before we get started, we are going to ask the military 
to adjust again, okay? Our clocks aren't working, that are in 
front of you. So we've got two timers back here. I will watch 
the time. As we get close to 5 minutes, I will give you a tap, 
and you will know where you are, okay? So thank you for that.
    I now have the pleasure of recognizing my esteemed 
colleagues to introduce our witnesses, all of which are from 
Member states.
    I now recognize my colleague Mr. Alford from Missouri to 
introduce his constituent who is appearing before us today.
    Mr. ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Well, it is really my distinct pleasure and honor for me to 
have Lieutenant Commander Taylor Burks testifying before us 
today as we discuss two very important issues to this country 
and Missouri's Fourth Congressional District--veterans and 
small business.
    Taylor Burks currently serves as the president and general 
manager of Rost, Inc., located in Columbia, Missouri. Founded 
by Tim and Toby Rost in 1985, Rost prides itself on creating 
vivid landscape designs for central Missourians.
    Prior to working for Rost, Taylor served our State in 
various capacities. He was a director for the University of 
Missouri System, appointed by the Governor in 2017 to serve as 
Boone County's clerk, and a director for the Missouri 
Department of Labor and Industrial Relations.
    Taylor has also served our country for 16 years in the U.S. 
Navy in both Active Duty and the Reserves, earning numerous 
awards such as the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, Joint 
Commendation Medal, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, 
Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal, and the Military 
Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal.
    He continues to serve as a lieutenant commander in the Navy 
Reserve. As a fifth-generation Missourian who grew up on his 
family's cattle farm, it clearly runs through Taylor's veins--
service does indeed.
    Mr. Chairman, if you will indulge me just a short time more 
in this introduction, on a personal note, Taylor Burks was a 
formidable opponent in our Republican primary for this seat. We 
became friends early on, encouraging one another, proving that 
politics does not have to be a nasty business.
    He is a brother in Christ, and Proverbs 27:17 says, ``So as 
iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.''
    Taylor, thank you for sharpening me, and thank you for your 
service. I look forward to your testimony, sir.
    Commander BURKS. Thank you.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Alford.
    I now recognize my colleague Mr. Crane from Arizona to 
introduce his constituent who is appearing before us today.
    Mr. CRANE. Our next witness here today with us is a good 
friend of mine, Mr. Grant Quezada.
    Mr. Quezada is the co-founder of Founding Fathers 
Collective in my district, Arizona's Second Congressional 
District, in Prescott, Arizona.
    A veteran of the United States Army, who served for 8 
years, did six tours as an Army Ranger--for those of you guys 
that don't know, that is like a Navy SEAL but JV version--Mr. 
Quezada began his business venture in 2014 when he opened the 
John Hancock Barbershop, providing a working environment to 
benefit fellow veterans and create a unique experience for his 
community.
    Following the success of the John Hancock Barbershop, he 
co-founded Founding Fathers Collective, the parent company 
which owns and operates 6 different entities, employing 65 
people, and contributing to the thriving tourism industry in 
Prescott. In 2022, Founding Fathers Collective won the W.O. 
Lawton Award for Business Leadership, beating out over 300 
nominees selected nationwide.
    Mr. Quezada, I speak for the whole Committee when I say, 
thank you for all you have done for our country. And we are 
looking forward to the conversation ahead.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Crane.
    I now recognize my colleague Mr. Bean from Florida to 
introduce his constituent who is appearing before us today.
    Mr. BEAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. A very good 
afternoon to you.
    And good afternoon, Small Business Committee.
    I do have the special honor to introduce a special guest 
who--welcome to everybody.
    But in addition to having the most patriotic name ever, 
Liberty Weaver is the owner of Breakable Hearts, LLC, located 
in my hometown of Fernandina Beach, which, of course, is 
located in the free State of Florida. Prior to starting 
Breakable Hearts, Ms. Weaver proudly served her country in the 
United States Air Force.
    Breakable Hearts was founded in 2021 by Ms. Weaver and her 
mother, Megan, who is in the audience today--a proud mom. 
Breakable Hearts is a baking company that specializes--get 
this--in making delectable desserts, including their famous 
cake in the shape of a heart that contains gifts inside the 
cake. Some say that is genius; I call it delicious.
    Starting a small business, especially during the 
challenging times of the pandemic, has made Ms. Weaver far too 
aware of the issues that lack of capital can have on an 
aspiring business and makes her a valuable voice to hear from 
today.
    We got to spend a few minutes before. She is ready to talk, 
and she has got things to say, and we are going to hear them.
    Ms. Weaver is a graduate of the Community College of the 
Air Force, received a Bachelor of Applied Science degree in 
psychology from the University of Maryland, and received a 
master's degree from Pepperdine University Graduate School of 
Education in psychology.
    Ms. Weaver, Liberty--let's call you Liberty--Liberty, thank 
you for coming and having the courage to share your story. We 
are glad to have you here.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Bean.
    And I now recognize the Ranking Member from New York, Ms. 
Velazquez, to briefly introduce our last witness appearing 
before us today.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And I would now like to yield to Representative Scholten, 
Ranking Member of our Subcommittee on Contracting and 
Infrastructure, from Michigan, to introduce our final witness.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Well, thank you so much.
    Our final witness today is a constituent of mine, Mr. 
Michael Hyacinthe, who is an amazing veteran entrepreneur based 
in Grand Rapids.
    Michael is an 8-year U.S. Navy veteran, who served as a 
U.S. Navy Seabee. After exiting the military, he became a 
recognized entrepreneur, including his role as co-founder and 
Chairman of HAS HEART, an organization aimed at helping 
service-disabled veterans find a creative outlet.
    He is also CEO and founder of Wimage, a children's media 
company dedicated to fostering learning and exploration through 
new technological innovation. I have had the pleasure of 
touring Wimage, and I can speak firsthand of the amazing work 
that Michael is doing.
    Within Wimage, he serves as the executive producer for 
``Wimee's Words,'' an educational children's show broadcasted 
in 24 PBS markets and other platforms. He has his original 
Wimee prototype here with him today, right behind him. I know 
my two boys are big fans.
    Finally, he is a lead facilitator and founding Member of 
the Veteran Entrepreneurship Lab at Grand Valley State 
University, where he helps other veterans start and grow 
businesses.
    His entrepreneurial journey gained him national recognition 
by outlets like Inc. Magazine and the Grand Rapids Business 
Journal. Most recently, he was recognized as a Top 10 Admired 
Leader of 2022 by Industry Era Magazine.
    Thank you for joining us today, Michael. We look forward to 
your testimony.
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Thank you.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. All right. Thank you.
    And before I recognize the witnesses, I would like to 
remind them again that your oral testimony is restricted to 5 
minutes in length. And if you see the light turn red--we have 
already been through that--we will run it for the gavel so you 
will know where you are. So we will handle that.
    I now recognize Mr. Burks for his 5-minute opening remarks.

STATEMENTS OF LIEUTENANT COMMANDER TAYLOR BURKS, PRESIDENT AND 
 GENERAL MANAGER, ROST LANDSCAPING; SERGEANT FIRST CLASS GRANT 
    QUEZADA, FOUNDER, FOUNDING FATHERS COLLECTIVE; E5 STAFF 
  SERGEANT LIBERTY WEAVER, OWNER, BREAKABLE HEARTS, LLC; AND 
PETTY OFFICER SECOND CLASS MICHAEL HYACINTHE, CEO AND FOUNDER, 
                             WIMAGE

         STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT COMMANDER TAYLOR BURKS

    Commander BURKS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the honor and 
privilege to be here and speak on behalf of my fellow residents 
of Missouri's Fourth District but also veterans in small 
business.
    I also appreciate the heartwarming introduction from my 
Congressman, Mr. Alford. I think he read my bio and intro 
pretty well because he heard it a thousand times in 2022.
    But if anyone knows Mr. Alford, you know the first time he 
meets you, he looks up to you, and after that, you grow to look 
up to him. He has the heart for service that I have grown to 
admire and respect, and love him and his beautiful wife, 
Leslie, his kids.
    And so I am honored to have him as my Congressman here, but 
also the connection to speak to small business and the issues 
facing veterans.
    I am Taylor Burks. I am the president of Rost, 
Incorporated, and the general manager of Midway Golf, Games, 
Events & 44 Tavern in Columbia, Missouri. I am a former 
director of labor standards for the State of Missouri under 
Governor Mike Parson and have served 16 years now in the United 
States Navy, both Active Duty and the Reserves.
    I have served overseas a number of times for this country, 
and I firmly believe and have spoken repeatedly that the United 
States military is our number-one career-skills program that we 
can offer young people in this country.
    After my career in public service, Tim and Toby Rost 
approached me to discuss stepping into their chief executive 
role for their family-owned company. It was founded 38 years 
ago by Tim Rost when he was a college student at the University 
of Missouri. The contractor skipped out on a job. The general 
contractor approached him, said, ``Can you finish it?'' He did, 
and his company was founded that way.
    Thirty-eight years later, they have five divisions, 
phenomenal divisions--not just landscaping design and 
construction. We have tree farms, we have retail centers, 
wholesale centers, and we have expanded into entertainment and 
outdoor sports.
    Our initial conversations with the Rosts centered around 
expanding their entertainment business with indoor golf bays, a 
restaurant, and an events center at Midway, which is part of 
Columbia, Missouri. And they needed an executive to do that.
    After that expansion, our company's strategy focuses on the 
next generation of ownership and leadership at Rost, 
Incorporated, whenever they decide to step back from their 
daily roles within the company that they founded nearly 40 
years ago.
    In this conversation about how they continue their family 
business, my experience as an accountant, logistician, and 
labor professional were high on their priority list for 
anybody. And good luck finding that mix. I didn't plan it. I 
stumbled upon each step of my career in doing that.
    Not least of these priorities are because of the 
automation, the supply chain, and the H-2B visa issues that we 
face in the industries that we work in and we provide for mid-
Missouri.
    What sealed the deal for Tim and Toby Rost was my service 
as an officer in the United States Navy. You learn resiliency, 
you learn character, you learn the soft skills in the military 
that I and veterans bring to the table. In short, the Navy 
opened the door to small-business entrepreneurship for me, made 
possible through a family's vision for the future of their own 
business.
    Like many servicemembers leaving the military, my 
experience transitioning out of Active Duty was challenging. I 
went through Transition GPS for the Navy in 2014 while I was at 
business school at Washington University in St. Louis, which, 
itself, was paid for through the Post-9/11 GI Bill's Yellow 
Ribbon Program.
    Transition GPS gave me the opportunity to think about how I 
translate my service into civilian-speak. And it was 
frustrating for me because, of the over 60 jobs I applied for, 
the response was generally that I am overqualified. Common to 
servicemembers who are leaving, my sailors who are 
transitioning out of Active Duty tell me the same thing, that 
they get approached and told, you are overqualified; the Navy 
or the military has taught you too much.
    Where I found success was my own ability to connect with my 
own community leaders, business owners in mid-Missouri. Those 
connections, determination, and hard work gave me my first 
opportunity at entrepreneurship. I am blessed that the Rosts 
had a vision for their company and they chose me to include in 
their strategic planning for the future ownership of Rost, Inc.
    The second issue that I hope that we discuss today is what 
happens to the tens of thousands of small and medium-size 
businesses whose owners approach their own retirement and no 
succession planning in place. Veterans have an opportunity to 
transition and step into these businesses, many of them in the 
trades which servicemembers learn during their military 
service, but may have a gulf between connecting that 
entrepreneurship with their skills as they leave the Navy.
    In short, the military prepares us for success. Transition 
programs are invaluable to the veterans who are moving to 
civilian life, but barriers to entrepreneurship can be lowered 
further so that veterans of today can enjoy the same 
opportunities that previous post-war veterans' generations saw 
for their veterans.
    I appreciate the chance to talk about that today. I look 
forward to our conversation.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you very much.
    And I now recognize Mr. Quezada for his 5-minute opening 
remarks.

        STATEMENT OF SERGEANT FIRST CLASS GRANT QUEZADA

    Sergeant QUEZADA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and ladies and 
gentlemen. My name is Grant Quezada. I am here today to 
represent several businesses under the parent company of 
Founding Fathers Collective.
    I stand before you as a proud United States Army veteran, 
having served our country over 17 years now. I am a service-
connected disabled special operations veteran; have six 
deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. I left Active Duty after 8 
years, and the last 9 years I have stayed in the Arizona 
National Guard.
    In addition to my military service, I have ventured into 
the business world. Upon returning to Arizona in 2014 with my 
wife and children, I opened John Hancock Barbershop. I grew 
that from one location to two and nine shares in 14 months and 
doubled revenue for roughly 4 years, until I partnered with an 
Air Force veteran friend of mine from childhood in 2018.
    We purchased a 12,000-square-foot piece of property 
downtown, and, amidst the challenging times of COVID, we opened 
October of 2020. We proudly opened Founding Fathers Collective. 
And within that single location, we have seven businesses 
under-roof that we own and operate.
    I am honored to share that our entrepreneurial efforts have 
been recognized by Salon Today; it is a prestigious industry 
publication. John Hancock Barbershop was featured in Salon 
Today as a Top 10 Salon and Barbershop in the United States, a 
testament to our commitment to excellence and customer 
satisfaction.
    Furthermore, in 2018, John Hancock Barbershop was voted the 
number-one veteran business of the year for the State of 
Arizona through NACOG, or Northern Arizona Council of 
Governments.
    In 2022, Founding Fathers Collective was humbly chosen out 
of 300 other participants at a national level to receive the 
W.O. Lawton Business Leadership Award. This award honors 
businesses that have demonstrated exceptional growth and 
community impact. This recognition reinforces our dedication to 
not only building successful enterprises but also positively 
contributing to the communities we serve.
    Myself and my business partner have spent the last 8 years 
of being back within the business--or, within our community of 
Prescott and have sat on multiple boards and committees 
throughout the community, to include the YMCA and several other 
nonprofits.
    And we continue to instill that within our leadership 
within our organization. So we employ about 60 or so employees 
within our businesses, and, at the top level, many of our 
leaders and managers sit on other nonprofits within the 
community as a way to give back to Prescott and the surrounding 
areas.
    However, amidst our accomplishments, it is important to 
address the challenges faced by veterans transitioning into 
entrepreneurship. While we appreciate the well-intentioned 
government programs such as Small Business Administration and 
the Office of Veteran Business Development, it has been a 
little disheartening to find that a lot of these programs often 
present barriers or red tape or some bureaucratic hurdles when 
seeking assistance through those means.
    Fortunately, we have found a lot of support through fellow 
business leaders and entrepreneurs within our community and 
throughout the State. We have been able to navigate the 
pitfalls that often come with starting and growing a business. 
And it is the belief and guidance of these individuals that 
have helped us overcome obstacles and achieve our goals as of 
today.
    I stand before this esteemed Committee--or, I guess I sit, 
really--to shed light on the experiences of veterans within the 
business world and urge you to consider streamlining government 
assistance programs that are out there to encourage veterans to 
step into business and leadership and entrepreneurship.
    By reducing barriers and fostering collaboration with 
community-based organizations, we can create an environment 
that supports the entrepreneurial ambitions of veterans. This 
will not only benefit individual veterans but also contribute 
to the growth and prosperity of our community as a whole.
    In conclusion, I am grateful for the opportunity to share 
my journey and the success of Founding Fathers Collective with 
you today. As veterans, we have demonstrated our commitment to 
serving our country, and now we seek to serve our communities 
through entrepreneurship. I kindly request your support in 
ensuring that our transition into the business world is met 
with necessary resources, streamlined processes, and 
partnerships that can help us thrive.
    The last thing I would like to add, to set the record 
straight: Yes, I am an Army Ranger, and even though my friend 
over here, Eli Crane, or Congressman Crane, has luscious locks, 
normally they get lost out in the woods and a Ranger regiment 
has to come and save them. So here I am again making sure that 
effort succeeds.
    Mr. CRANE. Good answer.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
    I now recognize Ms. Weaver for her 5-minute opening 
remarks.

         STATEMENT OF E5 STAFF SERGEANT LIBERTY WEAVER

    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Chairman Williams, Congressman Bean, 
and distinguished Members of the Committee on Small Business, 
thank you for inviting me here today to discuss the success and 
challenges that entrepreneurs face.
    My name is Liberty Weaver. I am the owner of Breakable 
Hearts, LLC. Breakable Hearts is a dessert catering company 
that provides beautiful, upscale desserts for weddings and 
events. We provide our services to southeast Georgia and 
northeast Florida. We are based out of Fernandina Beach, 
Florida, in Nassau County, and we have been operating since 
February of 2021.
    I joined the Air Force back in 2009 directly out of high 
school. I was assigned as a 4Y0X2, which is a dental laboratory 
technician. And, no, I did not clean teeth; I actually made 
them. In the 6-1/2 years that I served, I became a subject-
matter expert in pediatric removable orthodontic appliances.
    And, although I was set to go far, I did have to end my 
time in the military short, exiting as a staff sergeant. 
Transitioning out of the military was scary, but I was very 
optimistic. I was pregnant, writing a patent for an invention, 
and I thought that would--it would retire me. And I was going 
to school.
    When exiting the military, I took the class Boots to 
Business. It was interesting, encouraging, and very, very 
informational. And it actually sparked a little fire in me that 
maybe one day I could start my own business.
    Once I was out, everything that I had just learned seemed 
to get locked away while I proceeded to embark on this new 
journey of motherhood, education, and living in the middle-of-
nowhere Germany, also known as Hohenfels, if any of you are 
familiar.
    When we moved back to the States, I was excited. I had a 
new degree, I knew the language, and I had this thought that I 
was going to get this amazing job with all the information I 
had learned.
    Wrong. The only experience I had was what I had learned in 
the military--so, my very niche job. And without the experience 
to work in the career choice that I desired, I used the 
experience from the military to land a job in dental. I was 
hired as a removable appliance manager in Richmond, Virginia. 
And it wasn't long after working there that I started to feel 
stuck. I started to feel like my dreams and my goals that I was 
qualified to do were slipping away.
    In this day and age, a bachelor's degree, in my opinion, is 
equivalent to a high school diploma. And with the feeling of my 
life wasting away, I started a new career in marketing, where I 
had the human interaction and got to utilize things I had 
learned in school.
    And then COVID happened, and everything got shut down. And 
I am sure all of you guys are aware that there was this looming 
sense of death and sickness over all of us. So I did what any 
normal person would do. I packed up my bags--was very used to 
doing that--and I moved closer to my family in Florida with my 
daughter and my husband, who was just recently medically 
retired from the Army.
    Without the option to work, I decided to go back to school. 
I got accepted to Pepperdine University in the fall of 2020 and 
graduated with my master's degree in June of 2022. And, in the 
meantime, I had another baby and I started my business from 
home.
    And you guys might ask, like, why the sudden career change? 
As I was nearing the end of my degree, I had a lot of 
discussions with all of my teachers, who all said the same 
thing. In pursuit of my dreams that I was going towards, I 
needed experience that I still did not have. I had the 
education, but I lacked the experience.
    So I decided, I am just going to do something that keeps me 
home. I have two kids, and that is what makes sense. I was 
disheartened, but I was tired of fighting the system. So, thus, 
Breakable Hearts was formed.
    I opened Breakable Hearts with my mom, who is back there. 
We had no idea what we were doing or how we were going to do 
it, but we were determined. I drew on all the strengths that I 
had developed while in the military, such as leadership, 
management, and attention to detail.
    We soared. We have only actively been in business for 2-1/2 
years, and we have been awarded the Couple's Choice Award 2022, 
Best of Zola 2023, Best Rising Star Bakery of 2023, and we have 
been published in numerous magazines and articles.
    So why am I here? We have hit a growth stopping point. We 
have maxed out the capacity of our time and space for the 
numbers of orders we are receiving. We reached out to our small 
SBA lender, who told us that, to move forward, we needed to 
complete a list of tasks to apply for a loan and that we should 
investigate grants, because our main setback is the capital.
    We self-funded the business from the very beginning until 
the business started paying for itself. We spent hours 
researching grants and angel investors and even reached out to 
the Wounded Warrior Project for any resources that they might 
have in connection for grants for veterans, women veterans, or 
small-business veterans. And I found hundreds--but none that 
applied to me.
    I tried to do my own research on funding a storefront, 
build-outs, employees, and I hit a brick wall. I don't have the 
capital to do it myself, I don't meet the criteria for a grant, 
and I can't get a loan without the capital for a downpayment. 
When I asked if there were any veteran-specific SBA loans for 
women veteran--women veteran programs, she let me know there 
was not.
    And, at this point, I feel like I have maxed out my 
resources and contacts to move forward. I remember Boots to 
Business listing tons of resources for veterans, but I can't 
recall them from 7 years ago.
    Why I am here today is to show you how a story like mine 
can go from a thriving small business to a hobby very quickly. 
Without the resources or connections to move forward, we are 
never going to be able to take a home business to a local 
business.
    Thank you.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Hyacinthe 
for his 5-minute opening remarks.

   STATEMENT OF PETTY OFFICER SECOND CLASS MICHAEL HYACINTHE

    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Thank you.
    Hello, honorable and esteemed Committee Members. My name is 
Michael Hyacinthe. My twin brother and I are proud to have 
served in the military. I served 8 years as a U.S. Navy Seabee, 
and my twin served 20 years as a combat medic in the Army. I am 
originally from the Bronx, New York, but I currently reside in 
Grand Rapids, Michigan.
    I am here today not solely because of my own abilities but 
because my faith has guided me here. I am here today because my 
parents have instilled good values like hard work and sacrifice 
for me to be here. I am here today because of my kids, whose 
hopes and dreams for a better future have made it necessary for 
me to be here. And, finally, I am here today because the Navy 
has developed me as a leader and helped me to see my full 
potential, providing a path for me to be here.
    I come to you feeling hopeful because we remain the country 
with the bravest heroes who are prepared to make the ultimate 
sacrifice so that many of us can become entrepreneurs.
    I think about the families I have been honored to know 
while serving on the Casualty Assistance Team in the Bronx, New 
York. I remember Corporal Daane DeBoer, a Grand Rapids Marine 
killed in Afghanistan on his first deployment; he, along with 
the many heroes that have inspired me to keep striving. And 
because of their great sacrifice, I will never forget them. I 
will be forever in their debt, and they will forever be a part 
of my story.
    I separated from the military in 2005 but struggled to 
reintegrate and feel accepted. I drove a New York City yellow 
cab for 2 years, looking for my next mission. Like many other 
veterans, we come out different than we joined. We are older. 
Physical disabilities or mental challenges may now be a part of 
our stories.
    Mapping out my purpose proved challenging, but fortunately 
I found an opportunity to become an entrepreneur in Grand 
Rapids, Michigan. My first business venture involved helping 
wounded veterans find healing through art. As a result of this 
mission, I launched a nonprofit organization called HAS HEART 
to help veterans and the creative community use art for 
expression, connecting, and healing.
    My work with HAS HEART indirectly opened the door to 
launching a multimedia children's company called Wimage, or 
``words to images.'' Wimage started as a tool to help veterans 
turn words into images so that they could become independent 
creatives, but during our testing, we saw an opportunity to 
help kids at an early age, so we pivoted and began using the 
app to help kids improve their literacy skills and help them to 
become visual storytellers.
    But while developing the technology, we needed a kid-
friendly character, so we created Wimee, the lovable robot that 
you see behind me. The success of the Wimee character took us 
into classrooms throughout Grand Rapids.
    But, like everywhere in America, the pandemic disrupted our 
work, so we needed to find another opportunity to engage 
children at home. We created the Wimee show as an online tool. 
Our online show, called ``Wimee's Words,'' started in our 
basement, moved to our attic, and quickly expanded to 20 
national PBS markets, reaching millions of households.
    The success of our show helped us land a three-book deal 
with Zonderkidz, an imprint of HarperCollins. We believe this 
opportunity will help Wimee to become a household name and 
continue to inspire the next generation of creators, 
storytellers, and innovators. Our first book, ``Wimee 
Creates,'' which I am holding, launches July 18.
    Like so many other veterans, my journey has been complex 
and full of challenges. While I am very fortunate to share my 
story, many other veterans still struggle with the lack of 
support, resources, and funding.
    Over the last century, our vets have helped to rebuild 
towns and communities through entrepreneurship to help make 
America the most successful economy in the world. But many 
veterans are still left unsupported, or their ideas remain 
unheard.
    To help these veterans, we would love to see organizations 
like AAFES, the Navy Exchange, the Commissary, and the VA 
Canteens create opportunities for veteran entrepreneurs to 
pilot lifestyle and consumer products through their retail 
systems, just like the other big retailers do for 
underrepresented creators. This could help veterans learn and 
develop a market for their prototypes by offering a place for 
them to pilot their ideas. I personally would love to introduce 
Wimee to kids and family members on military bases.
    Overall, we salute this body for your efforts to help 
veterans expand their entrepreneurial spirit. We are grateful 
for the Boots to Business initiative.
    However, more funding could go directly to veterans and 
seed their ideas, like we have done through the Michigan 
Veterans Entrepreneurship Lab in Grand Valley State University 
at Grand Rapids, Michigan. Since many veterans, especially 
minority and female veterans, struggle with getting financial 
funding, we award cash prizes to graduates through MVE.
    The GI Bill could also be revamped and used as a financial 
tool to help veterans start or launch their businesses, rather 
than limiting the use of the funds strictly to educational 
programs.
    Artist Vincent Van Gogh once said, ``If you hear a voice 
within you that says you cannot paint, then by all means paint. 
Then that voice will be silenced.''
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Ten seconds.
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Like Van Gogh, we need to empower 
our veterans to pursue their ideas and imaginations.
    Thank you for your time and your consideration. I 
especially want to thank Congresswoman Hillary Scholten and 
Chairman Williams for this opportunity to be a voice for our 
heroes.
    Finally, I want to thank all who have supported me 
throughout my journey in New York and Grand Rapids. I would not 
be here without your prayers, love, and support. I am blessed 
and grateful.
    And hooyah. Go, Navy Seabees.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. I thank the witnesses.
    And now we will move to the Member questions under the 5-
minute rule.
    I will recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    I mentioned this in my opening statement, but, back in 
March, I had the pleasure of sitting in on a Boots to Business 
seminar at Fort Cavazos with SBA Administrator Guzman. And 
while the Administrator and I have very different political 
perspectives on how the country should be run, we could both 
come together to see how this program is beneficial to the 
servicemen and -women transitioning out of their Active Duty 
status and into the private sector.
    And we listened to many of these young servicemembers who 
were thinking about what they wanted to do once they no longer 
had the structure in place for the military. There were people 
that wanted to start industrial cleaning businesses, bakery 
shops, even underwater welding operations. These individuals 
had the creativity and drive to be great entrepreneurs, and 
this training program was meant to help them get their feet 
under them.
    So, Ms. Weaver, you participated in the Boots to Business 
program, as you said. What drove you to participate in the 
training course? And what message did you have for current 
military members that are considering participating in the 
program?
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. I did take the class when I was 
transitioning out through TAPS. And what inspired me to take it 
was, at the time, I was patenting an invention, and so I 
thought that I was going to be manufacturing, distributing this 
product, and so I wanted to learn at that time about business. 
I wanted to know, how do I transition? How do I go from boots 
to business? I mean, that is what drew me in, that is what made 
me take the class. I wanted to know, how do I, as a veteran, go 
back into the civilian world and go, literally, from boots to 
business?
    And I would recommend that class to absolutely anyone 
transitioning out of the military. It had so much information, 
so many resources. The only thing I would say is just the 
continuity of it following after once you are out of the 
military.
    Thank you.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Small-business owners are facing many 
economic headwinds. From stubbornly high inflation to rising 
interest rates, the margins of many businesses are being 
squeezed.
    Another thing that can add to these hardships are overly 
burdensome regulations. And I started asking the agencies some 
simple questions whenever they propose a new rule: What is the 
number of small businesses impacted by this rule, we ask. And 
how much will these new requirements cost small businesses? And 
where can the affected entities find the information on how to 
comply?
    So, Mr. Burks, do you think all agencies should be able to 
answer these simple questions? And can you discuss how your 
business deals with regulations coming out of Washington?
    Commander BURKS. Yes. That is really the tragedy and the 
struggle with small-business owners, is that the number, the 
myriad of regulations that come out of not just Washington, 
D.C. State governments, local governments, zoning--commissions 
can be pretty, I don't know, tyrannical at the local level.
    And a lot of small-business owners don't even know when we 
are running afoul of these regulations. You try to comply as 
best you can, and what these agencies do is, they show up to 
prove a violation, rather than to help a small-business owner 
deal and navigate their bureaucracy.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. It would be better to have a partner 
than an adversary, wouldn't it?
    Commander BURKS. Yes, sir. Absolutely.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Mr. Quezada, not only did you start your 
own barbershop that has been successful in its own right, but 
you also operate the space for other businesses to operate. And 
this is a great way to employ some people and give other people 
the opportunity to live out the American Dream.
    So how would you suggest newly returned veteran 
entrepreneurs engage in their community?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes. Thank you for that question, Mr. 
Williams.
    So, with us, after 4 years of the barbershop, and 
partnering with my buddy, Jesse Burke, our main focus was 
really due to service within the community at large. So, both 
of us being veterans and, kind of, within our blood, naturally 
being the service-minded individuals, like all of us up here, 
to our country, we really just had the humility to get out of 
our own way and seek individuals within the private sector that 
had already had it figured out or were further along the 
business channels than we were and ask for help and advice.
    That really led to the ability for us to move forward and 
find the success that we are at right now, and, in doing so, 
opening up one business that, like I had mentioned before, now 
houses seven businesses that we own.
    So, hope that suffices.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Hard work.
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes, sir.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Open it up in the morning and close at 
night.
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Yeah.
    I would now like to recognize the Ranking Member for 5 
minutes of questions.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Hyacinthe, yesterday, this committee voted to codify 
the Boots to Business program. Can you please comment briefly 
on the value of the program based on the interactions you have 
with veterans that have utilized the program?
    I am really excited to hear you, Ms. Weaver, and to see how 
valuable the program was for you. I would like for you to 
comment on anything that you feel should be added to the 
program or should be changed regarding Boots to Business.
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Thank you for the question, 
Ranking Member.
    Yes, many of the veterans that I have had an opportunity to 
connect with have had--find experiences in the Boots to 
Business initiative, with one ask: Many of them are looking for 
capital.
    The main barrier--and I believe we all understand that--is 
access to capital. That remains the biggest barrier to any 
veteran, from ideation stage to launching an idea. It really 
requires resources, mentorship. But, at some point, there has 
to be funding behind it so that the education that the veterans 
have learned can actually go out and be tested.
    And that is what we have done with the initiative at Grand 
Valley State University. And we teach the veterans, and then we 
award them cash prizes so that they can take their ideas and go 
out and seed them.
    So, overall, Boots to Business is a great initiative. We 
would just love to see that there is actually some capital 
supported to the veterans.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
    Yes, Ms. Weaver.
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Thank you.
    The only thing--the class is amazing. It provides so many 
resources. But when I got out of the Air Force, like I said in 
my testimony, all of that information got put somewhere else 
while I navigated my life as a civilian.
    It would be nice if the information that we learned--we do 
get a book to take home with us, but things get lost when you 
move back to the United States from a different country or you 
are moving from State to State, you know, because my husband 
was still Active Duty military at the time. And the continuity 
of it, the program being available online or something like 
that, where--and the networking connections that you make while 
you are in Boots to Business, or the other people who 
facilitate the same ideas as you in the class, it would be nice 
to have that continue once you get out, once you move around.
    Because, like most of us can say, we have lost so many 
connections throughout our military careers and as veterans, 
when people uproot their lives and move. They move, and you 
lose connections.
    And so that would be my suggestion. Thank you.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
    Mr. Quezada, your business is special because it focuses on 
workforce and professional development. Did your experience in 
the military and your transition help inspire this attitude 
toward business?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes, ma'am. So I learned really early on 
in my military career and then transitioning into my civilian 
life and within business the power of networking and the power 
of task delegating and allowing your team underneath you to 
fail or succeed, finding their own autonomy within the 
organization that really leverages their strengths and provides 
some level of joy or meaning within their job.
    So I started working with our local organization, which is 
NACOG, Northern Arizona Council of Governments, which--there 
are several other locations like that within the State of 
Arizona, to include several other States, I believe all 50 
States actually, within the United States.
    I found the most amount of success with working with them, 
because they are a local grant organization that has funds 
dedicated from the federal government in order to come 
alongside and help support local businesses, whether that be 
through sending some of our team through further education or 
classes on job specifications or, as they move upward into the 
business or organization at different levels, the support that 
comes alongside, where they will join in and help us cover some 
of their salaries or pay for an extended period of time.
    So that relationship has been extremely helpful for us on 
our end. And, you know, we took advantage of that and had an 
awesome partnership within our own community that really went 
out of their way to work with us and other businesses like 
ours.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
    My time has expired. I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. I now recognize Mr. Luetkemeyer from the 
great State of Missouri for 5 minutes.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Taylor--or, Mr. Burks, you talk in your testimony about 
the GI Bill's Yellow Ribbon Program and you had some 
frustrations with that. Can you elaborate a little further on 
that, please?
    Commander BURKS. Yes, sir. So the Yellow Ribbon Program was 
a blessing. I would not have been able to afford a private 
institution like Washington University without that.
    Where the gulf was is bringing and translating my military 
skills for a, you know, at the time, new business school 
graduate to the job market in St. Louis. And so, when you leave 
Active Duty--excuse me--when you join the military, you leave 
behind your family support, and you build your new network in 
the military. Then you leave the military, and you go back home 
and have to rebuild your network again.
    That was really the gulf that I saw through the Yellow 
Ribbon Program. The education was phenomenal, and blessed to 
have it. How do I take that and my experience and build an 
entirely new network after being away from home for 8-plus 
years, or 20 years if I was retiring? That is that frustration 
and difficulty and where I hope that we can provide better 
support to recently transitioning veterans.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. You have been involved with and continue 
to be involved with multiple businesses. What are some of the 
common problems and concerns you have with running those 
businesses, especially with regulations, taxes, whatever the 
problem is?
    Commander BURKS. Yeah. Uncertainty.
    I think that, you know, we double our workforce in our 
industry--agriculture, landscaping, retail wholesale of green 
products--we double our workforce every year from March to 
November, and we bring in a lot of legal guestworkers to the 
United States to do that. Every year, it is a roll of the dice, 
how we are going to get those guestworkers, where do we land on 
number of visas, or if it goes through altogether. That 
uncertainty makes it difficult for us to plan beyond a 12-month 
timeframe for budget projections, revenue projections, future-
year hiring, expansion plans.
    That is a quick and easy answer that I can give you from my 
industry. I could tell you, with the entertainment side, the 
gulf industry, our outdoor sports complex, local regulations 
have bitten us time and time again. And you can have an 
architect and you can have the best team behind you, and then a 
bureaucrat from local government shows up and says, ``You can't 
put a ball dispenser there. It has to be over there.'' Well, 
that costs you $20,000 to make a change like that.
    So, without a doubt, uncertainty throws, I think, each of 
us for a curve, regardless of what your industry is, and being 
able to predict that. Beyond what our size is, we can't have 
consultants and staff to do everything for us. But that is 
where small business, regardless of your veteran status, 
struggles.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Very good.
    You know, we are here--first, thank all of you for your 
service. It is interesting that we have this hearing 2 or 3 
days here before Memorial Day. So, you know, it is a special 
day remembering those folks who have served our country and 
weren't able to come back home.
    So I think it is very timely that we have all of you here 
to show our respect for you, for the work that you have done, 
the job you have done to be able to protect our country, serve 
our country. So I just thank you.
    With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
    I now recognize Mr. Mfume from Maryland, the great State of 
Maryland, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. MFUME. Thank you, sir. It is a great State. I want to 
thank you for holding this hearing, and I want to also thank 
Ms. Velazquez, as the Ranking Member, for joining you in that 
effort.
    And, as was said earlier, this is a significant time, as 
Memorial Day approaches, and we have an opportunity to remember 
why we celebrate Memorial Day, why it is so very important to 
our nation, and why it is particularly important to those 
veterans who are still with us on this side of creation and the 
remembrance that is so very much a part of that.
    I am happy to celebrate this coming Memorial Day, Mr. 
Chairman, recognizing that I have 120 veteran-owned businesses 
in my congressional district. They provide a service or a 
product. They are providing a great deal of assistance to the 
fabric, the economic fabric, of the greater Baltimore area. And 
we salute them on more occasions than one.
    These businesses span several industries, including but not 
limited to construction companies, technology companies, 
government contractors, food wholesalers, and et cetera. They 
contribute in a way that we sometimes take for granted because 
there are so many small businesses. And I want to, if I might, 
kind of delineate what I see is a common thread in the fabric 
of opening and maintaining a small business in this country.
    And I would like to start, if I might, in thanking all of 
you, obviously.
    But, Mr. Hyacinthe, can you just kind of walk me down your 
own set of ideas? I know that a veteran-owned business is 
facing, in many instances, some of the same problems that a 
woman-owned business or a minority business faces. And it is 
not some of the obvious things, like bonding issues or cash 
flow or market flexibility. It tends to be the two giant 
impediments that have been with us for years--a lack of access 
to capital, lack of access to credit.
    And I would like to get your thoughts. I heard you say in 
your testimony that you thought it might be a creative and 
expedient way to deal with startup capital by being able to use 
excess or unused GI funds particularly as startup capital or 
maintenance capital. Can you talk about why that is important 
to you?
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Yes. Thank you so much.
    We are living in a digital age, and the jobs of this 
century require veterans to have access to capital. Fifty, you 
know, years ago, when our World War II veterans came home, 
those jobs were primarily technical, mechanical, and so that is 
where 50 percent of our veterans were able to create jobs. But 
now these jobs that have to be created require funding.
    And so, while we are providing veterans the education--and 
in many communities where I am from, many veterans who look 
like me, the number-one thing that they tell you is that you 
need an education to go get a--to start a business. However, 
when others come back home who perhaps have access to 
resources, that education is not the main element.
    Mr. MFUME. Uh-huh.
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Now, I am not eliminating the 
value of education, because I do believe education is extremely 
important, and it is what got me here. But the education 
without access to capital, I believe, puts our veterans back at 
square one, trying to figure out who they are, what they are 
doing, and trying to navigate this very chaotic world of 
entrepreneurship.
    Mr. MFUME. Yeah. We push back against lending institutions 
also, reminding them that on the other side from capital is the 
ability to access credit and the need to extend credit lines, 
particularly to veterans who are starting out.
    I don't have a lot of time, but I would ask if any of you 
would share some thoughts on what you think might be done to 
better make the SBA hear you, work with you, and help you to 
become successful. Because I sense the thread in all of your 
testimonies that there are inherent issues there, whether it is 
paperwork or something else, that really causes you not to 
perform at your maximum level.
    Anyone?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah, I will add that--so I live in a 
rural community, about 45,000 people. The region as a whole is 
about 120,000 people. We have gone down the SBA route a couple 
different times with the 7(a) and the 504, and both times 
working with the local bankers.
    The local regional bankers are not as adept at working 
within the construct of the SBA. And so, normally, the help 
that we had to find was being pushed down to Phoenix and some 
of the larger banks down there. Some of the larger, more 
national banks that are----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Time is up.
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Time is up? Okay.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
    Mr. MFUME. Thank you.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. I now recognize Mr. Meuser from 
Pennsylvania for 5 minutes.
    Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much.
    And thank you to our nation's military veterans for being 
with us, and current entrepreneurs. Your testimonies are 
inspiring, truly, to all of us. Thank you, of course, for your 
service. And it is just very interesting to hear about your 
businesses and your plans and your trials and tribulations.
    So, you know, let me start with Mr. Quezada.
    May I call you ``Sergeant''?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes, sir.
    Mr. MEUSER. All right. Thank you, sir.
    Sergeant QUEZADA. I haven't been called that in a while.
    Mr. MEUSER. Yeah.
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah.
    Mr. MEUSER. Well, I haven't had the mistake of calling a 
sergeant ``sir'' in a while, so I haven't gotten kicked in the 
butt. Yeah, so----
    Sergeant QUEZADA. All right.
    Mr. MEUSER.--I can appreciate it. Or calling a ma'am a sir, 
that gets you in trouble too.
    So you are talking about your difficulties. You were 
mentioning that in your opening testimony, and red tape, 
bureaucratic hurdles. I mean, obviously, SBA, we are supposed 
to be here to make things easier for you in setting up your 
businesses.
    Share a little bit more about some specific examples 
perhaps. And then maybe add what works, what has been provided 
to you by the SBA, maybe even a local chamber, veterans 
services, that has worked for you.
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Sure.
    So let me elaborate a little bit about what Founding 
Fathers is first, because I know I said it is a barbershop. So 
we have a nine-chair barbershop. We have the largest tap wall 
for beer in the State of Arizona. We have a members-only 
speakeasy. We have a cigar and whiskey lounge. We have a 
functional fitness gym. We----
    Mr. MEUSER. Could you give us the address of that place?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah. We have a jiu-jitsu academy, a 
coffee shop, and a retail shop all in one facility.
    So, when we bought the building and we had the entire 
concept, our original pitch-deck was about 180 pages. We had to 
dwindle that down to something more manageable, about 40 pages. 
We shopped around our local market for about a month or two, 
and nobody would--everybody came back with, ``Hey, awesome 
idea, but we are not going to provide funding for that.''
    I spent the next 10 months, on a weekly basis, going down 
to Phoenix in order to search for capital down there within the 
Scottsdale area. And it was through a really good friend of 
mine, who is a lieutenant colonel in the Army, who works within 
the financial sector, that was willing to sacrifice a lot of 
his time and put me in front of the right people, that we found 
the capital to tackle our project. So that was about $4.5 
million, we are at now.
    And from the get-go and how we structured the entire 
business and brand was very much focused on, how are we growing 
this thing to scale and bringing this into other neighborhoods, 
B-class markets, where we are offering, really, the hospitality 
focus? And as myself and Jesse, my business partner, are very 
community-minded and civic-driven, our core values are 
community, connection, and care. And so, how are we bringing 
people together through these consolidated businesses under one 
roof?
    I will go back to, the continued support that we have seen 
and continually receive throughout our community has largely 
come from individuals, other business leaders, and veteran 
business owners who believe in what we are doing and have 
helped fund, you know, largely in loans or other----
    Mr. MEUSER. That takes time, as you were saying----
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes, sir.
    Mr. MEUSER.--coming back from service, making those sort of 
contacts for the primary purpose of access to capital. Because 
the hard work was in you, the plan was there, but the access to 
capital----
    And, Commander, let me ask you, on the SBA 7(a) or 504, 
other lending programs, none of that has been utilized or 
helpful to you?
    Commander BURKS. No. Our success is with private equity. 
And I think that the SBA loan programs are a little bit of a 
mirage sometimes.
    Especially if you have something that can be a meaningful 
business idea, like Sergeant Quezada's concept or what we do in 
Columbia--any business idea, you have to pitch the idea. And, 
as a veteran, you can sell yourself and your skills and what 
you bring to the table, but you have to sell the idea. And you 
are doing that with private equity. That is where we have seen 
success.
    Mr. MEUSER. Yeah, absolutely.
    Well, Sailor, I would like to just ask you, if you don't 
mind, you are talking about access to capital quite a bit. What 
are your means, and what has your success been, and what has 
been the lack thereof?
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Awesome. Thank you so much for the 
question.
    It is earned revenue. That is how we have been able to 
monetize, in addition with some friends and family as a startup 
venture.
    But I join, you know, my fellow veterans here. While we 
commend the efforts of the SBA, many times there has been a lot 
of barriers, whether it is just the length in processing----
    Sorry. We are running out of time. I am going to put in one 
last question, and maybe you can provide it to me afterwards.
    If you were sitting in my seat--and you almost were, 
Commander--tell me what you would do if you were sitting in my 
seat. And maybe you could send that to us in writing. Thank 
you.
    I yield back, Chairman.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
    I now recognize Ms. Scholten from the great State of 
Michigan for 5 minutes.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
    And thank you to all of our witnesses for coming today and 
for your brave service to our country.
    Data indicates that veteran entrepreneurs often start 
businesses years after their separation from the military. Part 
of this is because many veterans face difficult transition 
times from military to civilian life.
    Michael, Mr. Hyacinthe, you talked in your testimony about 
the great work happening in West Michigan in the Michigan 
Veterans Entrepreneurship Lab at Grand Valley State University. 
This program, like the SBA Boots to Business Program that I 
voted to codify yesterday, provides important support and 
resources to veteran entrepreneurs.
    So my question for you is, if you could just briefly 
elaborate on GVSU's Veteran Entrepreneurship Lab, how it has 
prepared you and other veterans to start their small 
businesses. Specifically, if you could talk about what impact 
this program has had on minority and female veterans.
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Great question. Thank you so much 
for the time and, of course, your service to our district.
    Yeah, so the MVE Lab, which is the Michigan Veterans 
Entrepreneurship Lab, launched in 2018 as a result of meeting 
with fellow student veterans at Grand Valley State University 
who wanted to develop ideas to start businesses.
    And so myself, in addition to our director, Shorouq 
Almallah, we said let's connect and let's see if we can create 
a template that would create education, which is a 10-week 
cohort that allows the veterans to come into our classroom, 
learn the fundamentals of ideation, business planning, and then 
business pitching. And the majority of our cohort members 
happen to be minority veterans as well as women veterans.
    And as we were doing some testing, we got some input from 
them stating that this education is great, but the biggest 
thing that we still will face is access to capital. And so we 
then decided to create an opportunity where these veterans, 
once they have completed the 10-week cohort, and we did a 
business pitch competition, we would award $20,000 to the 
cohort.
    And I am happy to say that, since 2018, we have graduated 
200 veterans, and we have given away close to $250,000, 
nondiluted capital, so that these veterans can go out and test 
their ideas after they have been educated.
    And I truly believe in the Boots to Business initiative. As 
we have seen, a lot of the ideas that come to the MVE Lab 
started from Boots to Business, but then these veterans needed 
another place to continue their process with hopes of 
potentially getting capital. And the data has shown us that 
once the veteran has been educated and they have got access to 
capital, that is where the entrepreneurs truly are lasting.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you so much. That is really insightful.
    My last question. As Ranking Member of the Small Business 
Committee on Contracting and Infrastructure, I am committed to 
ensuring that veteran-owned small businesses have the resources 
that they need to succeed in the federal procurement process. 
So many of the small businesses who engage in federal 
contracting is in the defense space. No better small business 
owner than our veterans to do that.
    My question is to all of our witnesses. What barriers are 
there in place that prevent veteran entrepreneurs from entering 
the federal contracting market, and how can this Committee work 
to remove those barriers?
    Commander BURKS. Congresswoman, if I could speak on that.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Sure.
    Commander BURKS. As a supply corps officer, I dealt with 
contracting in my military career as well as at the university 
at State of Missouri.
    The complication of the contracting procurement process 
restricts new people from entering it. You have to have a 
degree in that just to try to navigate it. And my company has 
tried a couple of times. It is on my strategic to-do list for 
Rost, Incorporated. But by and large, there is a whole cadre, 
tens of thousands of federal contracting officers, and as a 
small business owner, you can't navigate that.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. We would love to follow up.
    And for our other witnesses, if you have thoughts, would 
like to share any, please feel free to submit those in writing, 
as I know we are running out of time.
    And with that, I will yield back. Thank you.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
    I now recognize Mr. Alford from the great State of Missouri 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thanks to our witnesses, once again, for being here today. 
Great to see you. I know it is a pain to get here to Washington 
on your own dime. It is an investment in what we are doing in 
this Committee. It is an investment in America. And I applaud 
you for doing that, and I also applaud you for your service.
    This is a really meaningful hearing for our district. I am 
proud to sit on the House Armed Services Committee as well. Our 
district has Whiteman Air Force Base, Fort Leonard Wood, really 
powerhouse bases. We have a large veteran population as well 
because of those bases.
    This district is also very rural, as you know, Commander. 
And it creates a lot of challenges, I think, having that mix of 
a large veteran population and also a rural area. And it really 
compounds the challenges faced by veterans trying to start a 
small business in our district.
    While the Small Business Administration has programs, as we 
have talked about, helping veterans, they are not always 
utilized, as we have already heard. And we need to find out why 
that is, and how do we change them so they are utilized. Does 
the veteran community know about these programs? Do we need to 
do a better job advertising them? Or have veterans tried these 
and it just doesn't work out for whatever reason? What can the 
SBA do better? What are some changes that we need to help with?
    I believe it is this Committee's job to create an 
environment for small business owners to succeed. That is the 
key.
    So I would like to start with you, Commander Burks. And I 
want to follow up with Mr. Meuser's question. I think it was a 
very important question. If you would like to go and answer 
that.
    Why are you and other veterans not able to take advantage 
of these programs?
    Commander BURKS. Yes, sir. And I appreciate the question 
and the chance to maybe dig a little deeper into that. And I am 
sure my fellow veterans up here have ideas as well.
    What we have seen at Rost, Inc., is that access to capital 
requires certain guarantees. And there is no real certainty 
from us--or excuse me--there is no real benefit to us to use 
the SBA loan program. Where we have been successful, again, is 
private equity investors in mid-Missouri who we go to, talk the 
idea, talk about our idea, and they understand that either they 
or us are going to guarantee that loan.
    If Rost, Inc., was a new business, if we were starting up, 
not an established business, those expansion ideas wouldn't 
happen. You know, our 10 million investment in a new outdoor 
entertainment complex in mid-Missouri wouldn't happen if I had 
to go to the SBA for a loan guarantee. And that is the reality 
of it.
    So I am happy to dig into Mr. Meuser's request because I 
think that we have some really good ideas up here on how those 
guarantees could occur and improve that access to capital. It 
doesn't have to be grants. I mean, I am sure that is helpful. 
But that guarantee so we can make these ideas come to fruition 
is better.
    Mr. ALFORD. Anyone else on the panel?
    Yes, sir.
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Yes. Thank you so much for that 
question.
    Ultimately, I do believe that the SBA has become a 
systematic machine, and it has lost the ability to understand 
the humanity behind the ventures. That is where a person can go 
out to a private equity, because while private equity can be, 
at times, challenging, there still is a human behind it who is 
willing to hear the story of this entrepreneur, who is willing 
to meet this entrepreneur, who is willing to see the stories of 
how he has been able to struggle and get to where he or she is 
at right now, thus providing them an opportunity to make a 
decision where that funding can come from. Whereas, the SBA--we 
really don't know who is behind the SBA to make that 
connection.
    And so if there is an opportunity to bring the connection 
local, to have that one-on-one opportunity to meet their 
veterans and hear our stories, perhaps there is an opportunity 
to make some changes that some funding can start rolling to 
those who have served our country.
    Mr. ALFORD. To make it more relational between SBA and the 
borrower?
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Absolutely.
    Mr. ALFORD. Taylor, would you like to comment?
    Commander BURKS. Yeah. I mean, our regional banks--we have 
phenomenal relationships with our regional banks in mid-
Missouri, and they have relationship managers that we work with 
for our loans. And don't know who I would go to for the SBA for 
a veteran-specific loan program.
    Mr. ALFORD. I think that is something we need to make 
better in the SBA, and I am so glad I am on this Committee to 
try to help along.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
    I now recognize Mr. Thanedar from the great State of 
Michigan for 5 minutes.
    Mr. THANEDAR. Thank you, Chair.
    Firstly, thank you all for your service and commitment to 
our country. And as a fellow entrepreneur, I appreciate and 
love your stories.
    According to the Census Bureau, veteran-owned businesses 
comprise about 5.6 percent of all businesses. Like our 
witnesses here today, veterans are reliable and resilient 
savers of small businesses nationwide.
    In Michigan, some of the best-ran businesses are veteran-
owned, including Detroit-based Wolverine Packing Company, which 
was founded in 1937. A true testament of veteran leadership and 
resolve. However, the rate of entrepreneurship has 
significantly decreased over time. The need to increase the 
number of veteran-owned businesses is long overdue.
    Mr. Quezada, can you expand upon the ideas that went into 
your first venture at the John Hancock Barbershop? What 
inspired you to start your first business, and do you think the 
success you gained there was aided by your experience in the 
military?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes. I am sure I am going to hear this 
from Senator [sic] Crane. But prior to my special operations 
experience, I was a hairdresser, and then went into the 
military and did that. And when I got out, I went to barber 
school. So for me, when I moved back to Prescott, it was very 
apparent that the niche was in the barbershops. There was a 
lack of barbershops within my community. There was about 11, 
and there was 160 salons. So that was the direction I went. And 
as soon as I started the business, I knew I needed to work 
myself out of that business as fast as possible, and it needed 
to have its own identity with the focus of growth and a proper 
direction moving forward within the community.
    So from pretty much the genesis of that specific business, 
the intention was always to remove myself, empower others, 
provide solid careers for my team, and then continue to grow 
ongoing ventures within the community. That really did come 
from the support of other business leaders and owners within my 
community, largely starting with--as I am cutting several of 
these gentlemen's hair, of course, I was able to build a lot of 
rapport and relationships with them, and then through a couple 
years, very quickly continued to move and grow into what 
Founding Fathers is now.
    So I just highly recommend for veterans, as they step 
outside, the power to really build relationships and rapport 
and have the humility to ask for help. It really does come from 
a handshake and looking somebody in the eye. I know that all of 
you up here, men and women, that believe in the organization of 
what the SBA is, but at some point too, it is a bureaucratic 
system. And I have seen capital move just more quickly through 
the private sector because a handshake goes a long way, so----
    Mr. THANEDAR. Thank you. Thank you.
    Also, it is commonly understood that hiring veterans is 
associated with great teamwork, a sense of duty, and 
accountability. Yet according to Pew Research Center, only one 
in four veterans have a job lined up after leaving the Armed 
Forces.
    Ms. Weaver, you mentioned feeling stuck in your career 
after transitioning out of the military, despite having a 
bachelor's degree and a unique skill set. Can you elaborate on 
how this Committee may be able to better support veterans 
transitioning into the civilian workforce?
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Thank you for your question. I think 
there--when I was doing my resume in TAPs when I was exiting 
the military, we go our whole career learning to write bullet 
format of all of our accomplishments, accolades, awards, 
everything like that, and most of us in TAPs did the exact same 
thing on our resume. You know, we have saved this much money, 
we have reduced this much error.
    And we were--you know, while we were there, we were being 
taught how to change to speak in civilian language. And I think 
that goes a lot--and it could help a lot if we could learn how 
to translate our skill set into the civilian language, because 
we really only know how to communicate using military terms and 
acronyms and everything like that.
    Thank you.
    Mr. THANEDAR. Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Weaver.
    I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. I now recognize Mr. Crane from the great 
State of Arizona for 5 minutes.
    Mr. CRANE. Thank you all for coming today. I really 
appreciate it. I know I speak for the panel when I say that.
    I want to ask a quick question, real quick, starting with 
Mr. Burks.
    Mr. Burks, would you say you are impressed with the 
efficiency of the federal government? Yes or no?
    Commander BURKS. No.
    Mr. CRANE. Mr. Quezada, would you say you are impressed 
with the efficiency?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. No.
    Mr. CRANE. Mrs. Weaver?
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. No.
    Mr. CRANE. Mr. Hyacinthe? Did I say that right, sir?
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Hyacinthe, yes.
    Mr. CRANE. Are you impressed with the efficiency of the 
federal government?
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. I think it could be improved.
    Mr. CRANE. Okay. Thank you. The reason I ask that question, 
guys, is because when we talk about SBA lending money to 
veterans, you guys realize where that money comes from, right? 
You guys. The taxpayer.
    Now, I have been a champion for veteran entrepreneurs since 
I got out of the Navy, went on the show Shark Tank, and started 
my veteran small business. But, you know, I want to encourage 
you guys to keep at it, keep working hard. But I want to keep 
pushing back on this Committee, you know, that thinks that we 
are going to do a good job loaning money to veterans or to 
anybody else because, you know what? This town doesn't do a 
good job at loaning money to anybody.
    And does anybody up on the panel know how much debt we have 
in this country?
    Mr. Quezada, do you have any idea?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Trillions.
    Mr. CRANE. Thirty-two trillion. Yeah. All right. Now, I am 
going to start with my questions real quick.
    Mr. Burks mentioned the idea of veterans freshly out of 
military buying up established businesses from business owners 
looking to retire. I think that is a great thing. A friend of 
mine, Lynn Lowder, has something called the Veteran Business 
Project. If you guys want to check it out, it is 
veteranbusinessproject.org. That is what these guys do for any 
veterans out there looking to do something like that.
    Next, I want to say, Mr. Hyacinthe, my brother from the 
Navy, a Seabee, you guys are awesome, man. I saw you guys do so 
much stuff. If you ever have a task that you need done, give it 
to a Seabee.
    Something you said, sir, rung true with me and loud and 
clear with me. You said, sir, that you drove a cab for 2 years 
trying to find your next mission. I thought that was really 
cool. And I think, you know, it is one of the things--when I 
talk to other veterans that I want to see successful, I want 
them to understand, because a lot of veterans don't understand 
how hard-wired we are for mission. And I know that it is 
important. I could hear it in your testimony. And I am glad, 
brother, that you found one. And I know you are going to help a 
lot of veterans, just because I see it in your heart and I see 
it in your product.
    My friend, Mr. Quezada, I have seen you do the same thing. 
You have developed an amazing business. It is one of the 
coolest businesses I have ever been at, which is why I asked 
you here. It is not because I enjoy your company at all, for 
that matter.
    But, Mr. Quezada, I know that we have tough economic times 
right now with record inflation, high interest rates, and labor 
shortages. How have you navigated this economy and continued to 
grow your business?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. So first off, with the labor shortages, 
that has never actually been a problem of ours, largely because 
we sacrifice in the high end when it comes to pay in order to 
pay even our lowest wage earning employee a reasonable wage. I 
believe in our business, everybody averages about $24 an hour. 
So it is pretty--that is a pretty good wage for a hospitality 
job.
    Our retention within the business sits at about 80 percent 
over 2.5 years. A lot of that goes into the backside support 
that we have created when it comes to our professional 
development plans and weekly and monthly, quarterly followups 
with each one of our team members. We know that nobody is going 
to be working with us or in hospitality the remainder of their 
life, and so the ability to step back and allow for the freedom 
and the latitude for them to move on and encourage them or even 
set them up for wins in their life as they move forward. So 
that is--in having that, we weathered COVID extremely well. We 
never had to break our hours or fire any of our team. So that 
has been a tremendous blessing.
    Speaking of the upcoming kind of economic forecast that we 
are seeing over the next several quarters into probably Q2 of 
2024, I think really what you will end up seeing largely within 
the small business community is probably an increase in price 
at some level to offset the cost of what we have seen when it 
comes to higher prices in gas or eggs on the shelf or any of 
the other areas where we are seeing or feeling the crunch on an 
economic level within our own pocketbooks.
    Mr. CRANE. Are you guys having to raise your prices to keep 
up with the inflation?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. For everybody I believe it will be $2, 
but for you I think it is 200. So yes.
    Mr. CRANE. Real quick, Mr. Hyacinthe, what advice would you 
give to veterans getting out of the military that want to be 
successful?
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. I believe in mentorship. I believe 
that there is an opportunity for them to understand where their 
dreams may take them and find someone within that industry and 
pursue that. Hard work, hustle, like the Seabees do.
    Mr. CRANE. I yield back my time.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. I now recognize Ms. Chu from 
California--the great State of California for 5 minutes.
    Ms. CHU. Ms. Weaver, I followed your story with interest. 
You served your country. You got a master's degree. You raised 
a family. And then you started to Breakable Hearts, this 
upscale dessert company. So--and also, you won awards for it.
    So I was dismayed when I heard you say that there weren't 
veteran-specific SBA loans, because there are. You know, there 
is Community Advantage, which is a program that I want to get 
permanently authorized, but it is in existence now. And it is 
for people who might not qualify for any other SBA loan. It is 
for traditionally underserved business owners, veteran-owned 
business owners, minority and women-owned. And you qualify two 
ways, you know.
    It has more flexible criteria for the loan, but you can get 
up to $350,000 for anything from real estate purchases, 
business expansion, equipment purchases, or working capital. 
And you don't need capital for a down payment.
    So my question is, have you heard of this loan?
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. No, I have not. I did ask my SBA 
lender, a local to Nassau County, about any veteran-specific 
and, unfortunately, I was told there was none, and then halted 
from the down payment for the SBA loan that we were trying to 
work out all the numbers to see if it was something.
    But when you own a bakery, it is not just a place you can 
lease with four walls and a door. You have to build out an 
entire commercial kitchen. And so it just wasn't something at 
this point in time that we were able to move forward with.
    Thank you.
    Ms. CHU. But this kind of loan could help.
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Yes. I will definitely look into it. 
Thank you so much.
    Ms. CHU. Okay. Please look into it. Okay. Absolutely.
    Okay. I would like to ask Mr. Hyacinthe about this. I would 
like to know how veterans in your life might react to the 
following threats. House Republicans recently passed a partisan 
bill that will cut all nondefense discretionary spending across 
the federal government by 22 percent. The VA says that this 
would result in 30 million fewer veteran outpatient visits and 
81,000 jobs lost across the Veterans Health Administration. It 
would worsen wait times for benefits by eliminating 6,000 
staff, and increase the disability claims backlog by an 
estimated 134,000 claims.
    Additionally, it would cut up to $565 million for upgrades 
to hospitals and clinics and cut housing vouchers for as many 
as 50,000 veterans. Finally, it would take food assistance away 
from veterans, deprive them of mental healthcare services, and 
eliminate job training for homeless veterans.
    And then there would be the cut to SBA services for 
veterans. The SBA stated that these cuts would result in 
295,000 fewer entrepreneurs and small businesses accessing free 
business counseling at SBA resource partner groups such as the 
Veterans Business Outreach Centers. Of course, that would 
negatively impact thousands of veterans. SBA also stated it 
would not have sufficient funding to fully support the Service-
Disabled Veteran-Owned Small Business Certification Program, 
which currently supports about 35,000 veterans.
    So how do you think veterans in your life might react to 
that?
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. I think veterans in my life and 
veterans all over would look at that and see that as a 
negative. I mean, it is really tough to truly understand and 
give veterans an opportunity to be entrepreneurs if at first we 
don't recognize the mental and physical ailments that veterans 
come back with.
    And so before we can allow a veteran to share their 
American dream, we have to make sure that the veteran is able 
to heal, can be connected with the community, and can be heard.
    So I challenge all those in this Committee to take another 
look at this bill, if this is actually something that is 
getting ready to be put forward, to truly consider the 
veterans' mental health because, but for our mental health, 
we--it is tough for us to start a business, create a family, 
run a family or run a job.
    Ms. CHU. Thank you for that. And I know you run the 
Michigan Veterans Entrepreneurship Lab, which is right in your 
community, so easily accessible. We have Veteran Business 
Outreach Centers, but some of them are not located in easily 
accessible places. In fact, the one that is closest to my area 
of Los Angeles is 2 hours away.
    So how important is it for it to be close by?
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. I think it has to be close by. And 
perhaps should there be opportunities where there are some 
connections with local entrepreneurship or incubators that 
houses this awesome opportunity. So we need to be innovative in 
communicating----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Time is up.
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE.--and getting this to our veterans.
    Ms. CHU. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Now I would like to recognize Mr. Bean 
from the great State of Florida for 5 minutes.
    Mr. BEAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Let's go to Liberty Weaver. Liberty Weaver, you have come 
up with the genius plan of baking delectable goodies by putting 
something inside. Where did you come up with that idea? Where 
did that come from?
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. It is chocolate, by the way. It is 
not cake.
    Mr. BEAN. Okay. Of course.
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. It is actually----
    Mr. BEAN. Let's be clear for the record, Mr. Chairman.
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. It is chocolate.
    Mr. BEAN. It is chocolate.
    What are some of the things that your clients, people 
that--what do they put in your goodies that you make for them?
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Well, specifically, the breakable 
heart----
    Mr. BEAN. Yes.
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER.--which is the name of the company. I 
mean, they can put anything from jewelry, a gender reveal if 
they are pregnant. They can put an ultrasound if they want to 
let a loved one know that they are pregnant. You can put gift 
cards. Anything under 7 inches will fit under a breakable 
heart.
    Mr. BEAN. I gotcha. Is it true that if--is it true that if 
I wanted to order one, I could go to breakableheartsllc.com? Is 
that true, Ms. Weaver?
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Yes. Yes, very true.
    Mr. BEAN. Very good. And you are also--you are on Facebook. 
I have been looking at pictures of so many things that 
Breakable Hearts makes.
    Your challenge, right now, we talked a little--first of 
all, who is with you, and what do they do? Your people that you 
brought with you in the audience.
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. My mom, Megan.
    Mr. BEAN. All right.
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. She is my co-owner with Breakable 
Hearts, and my best friend, Chanel.
    Mr. BEAN. Okay. Very good. They are excited to be with you.
    What is the challenge right now? Breakable Hearts--is it 
space? I know space is a challenge. Tell us about some of the 
challenges you are facing right now.
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. So raising capital for Breakable 
Hearts. We have outgrown working from home. We have a lot of 
clients who want to utilize our services, but we don't have the 
employees.
    And we have looked into getting loans into expanding and to 
growing into a new space, but when you have a bakery, you have 
to have employees. You have to have a commercial kitchen 
outfitted specifically for what you are baking. And you have to 
have the right square footage for your space because you do 
have to have a storefront. You have to have space for trucks to 
come drop off all your product. Everything like that.
    And that is extremely--I mean, maybe not in the 10 million 
range, but for somebody like me who is just a small business 
trying to grow into a space, it is expensive. And the down 
payment alone is almost upwards of $100,000 to secure the loan. 
So it is not something financially feasible for me at this 
point, and I can't find the capital or the resources to get the 
capital to move forward.
    Mr. BEAN. Very good. Is the Boots to Business, is that plan 
working? Did you enjoy that? Is it helpful?
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. I did enjoy it when I was in. I 
frankly, cannot remember 7 years ago the information that I 
learned, and I wish I had some way of retaining the 
information, because I am sure there is a resource in there I 
could look up that maybe would help me at this point.
    Mr. BEAN. Gotcha.
    Let me ask Commander Burks. Is it working? Boots to 
Business, is it working or not working?
    Commander BURKS. So I transitioned out of Active Duty prior 
to Boots to Business being authorized. So I haven't experienced 
that program.
    Mr. BEAN. But if there were a program that would help 
veterans transcend and capture entrepreneurship leaving, you 
think that would be a good thing?
    Commander BURKS. Yeah. Certainly not opposed to the 
concept. It sounds like it was reauthorized. What I would 
suggest is that where we have all seen success is 
relationships. And if there is an opportunity for us to foster 
those relationships transitioning out with our local community, 
that is a better way for veterans to enter entrepreneurship.
    Mr. BEAN. Gotcha.
    Quezada, working?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes, sir. Actually--so I believe I am in 
the same boat with Mr. Burks. We never--I don't believe that 
program was around when I left Active Duty. It sounds like, 
from Ms. Weaver, that obviously she got some traction early on, 
but over the course of the last 7 years, 8 years, it has kind 
of waned a little bit.
    I think one of the things that I believe all four of us 
would probably be in agreeance on is that, outside of this 
organization, the SBA and the support that you are all trying 
to offer not just veteran small businesses but small businesses 
in general, I think there is a disconnect within the language.
    Most of us are entrepreneurial minded and, you know, are in 
pursuit of capital, but it tends to be most of the people that 
sit across the table from us proverbially, whether it is here 
in D.C. or a bank, don't speak the same language. And so there 
is a disconnect when it comes to what we are looking for and 
how to get it that way----
    Mr. BEAN. So we have a little bit of work to do.
    I have got just one brief moment. I want to give the last 
20 seconds to Ms. Weaver.
    Ms. Weaver, if you could go back and give advice to 
yourself just a few years ago getting out of the service, what 
would you tell yourself, in 10 seconds or less?
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. To network. To network with all the 
people in the class and to put those resources somewhere where 
I won't lose them 7 years from now.
    Mr. BEAN. Thank you.
    Thank you all for your service, and thanks for coming 
forward today. Well done.
    I yield back.
    Mr. ELLZEY. [Presiding.] Thank you, Mr. Bean.
    I now recognize Ms. Davids from Kansas for 5 minutes.
    Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you.
    Thank you to my colleagues, the Chairman, and Ranking 
Member, for holding this hearing today. I am really glad that 
we are getting a chance to hear from some of our veteran 
entrepreneurs.
    I am an Army brat. My mom was in the Army for 20 years. She 
was a drill sergeant, so I had to do push-ups. It is kind of a 
joke, but not really.
    So, you know, I think that some of what we have heard today 
and some of what I think is so awesome about talking to veteran 
entrepreneurs is that, when you think about mission or service, 
sacrifice, dedication, I mean, the whole gamut, there are few 
people that are better situated to become entrepreneurs than 
people who are exiting service.
    And so, you know, I have spent my time--I have only been--
it feels like 10 years, but it has been about 4 in Congress on 
the Small Business Committee learning about programs like Boots 
to Business or the Veteran Business Outreach Centers and 
training programs and that sort of thing. I know that these are 
really valuable resources, but I think we have heard a bit 
about today how either folks don't know about them or they 
might be a bit too bureaucratic and that sort of thing.
    I do have a bill that I introduced in the last Congress and 
the previous one before that called the SERV Act that 
actually--it is a bipartisan bill. It addresses exactly these 
types of needs to understand and make those resources better 
available.
    I did learn something new today, that they are not avail--
we need to get them on--we need to get some of these resources 
online, it sounds like. So that an alum of the Boots to 
Business Program could make use of those resources.
    But, Mr. Quezada, I did want to--you mentioned in your 
written testimony and your verbal testimony that you experience 
some specific barriers. I was curious if you could kind of 
expand on those barriers.
    And then just real quick, because I have to--when I come to 
Arizona next, I will have to come train, because I do jiu-jitsu 
and would love to come.
    Sergeant QUEZADA. You are in, young lady.
    Yeah. So some of the barriers we face with the SBA, 
specifically--I believe at one point we tried for the 7(a) and 
then the 504. We went through several months of the paperwork 
being pushed forward, only to find out at the end--what we had 
started with the conversation was to pretty much acquire about 
$4 million in capital. We got to the end about 3 months later, 
and we were told that the best they could do was $350,000. And 
so we had wasted quite a bit of time on that process talking 
with the bank, the bankers, several institutions down in 
Phoenix. So that was slightly disheartening.
    And what they ended up finding, the reason was--was a 
pretty basic one, which was, hey, we weren't in business for 2 
years yet, and they somehow had not asked us that, told us 
that, up until that point. And when we addressed that, that is 
kind of what we got back. So it was quite a bit of ongoing 
conversations and sitting down, taking time out of our day 
within the business to work with different levels of bankers in 
the back-and-forth, so----
    Ms. DAVIDS. Yeah. And then one of the things that I have 
heard, and I just--because I am going to run out of time--is, 
in addition to finding out after you have already spent months 
going through the process, that it sounds like what seems to be 
a very simple piece of information was not made known to you. I 
also--it sounds as though there might be barriers in terms of 
the level of education.
    And so sometimes we see this education versus experience. 
And I just would love to follow up with you all after this 
hearing, because I do think that, while it might not be sitting 
in a classroom--although sometimes it is--veterans, when they 
have exited service, certainly have a wealth of experience and 
knowledge that is probably much more useful than a 4-year 
degree in some instances.
    So would love to do followup about that specifically with 
you all. And thank you for your time and your service.
    Mr. ELLZEY. I now recognize Mr. Stauber from Minnesota for 
5 minutes.
    Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
    I just want to reiterate. As my colleagues stated, I want 
to thank you all for your service. We have members of the 
military and veterans on both sides of the aisle, and we are 
very appreciative of their service. So when we say that, that 
comes from the heart.
    And I want to be very parochial, and I don't want to upset 
any one of you or the veterans on either side of the aisle 
here. I get to spend the rest of my life with the greatest 
veteran alive, and that is my wife, who spent 25 years in the 
military, a retired command chief.
    My colleague from California, in my mind, moments ago 
misled you all. And I want to be very clear on this. Partisan 
politics does not belong putting veteran against veteran or 
family against family. I want to clear the air.
    The Limit, Save, Grow Act does not cut veterans' benefits. 
The Limit, Save, Grow Act keeps VA spending in line with fiscal 
year 2022 levels, like it was just 5 months ago, levels that 
this President and this administration applauded when 
originally passed. My colleagues on the other side of the aisle 
are distorting this fact around funding levels set by the House 
Republicans and are simply making this claim to undercut our 
ability to reasonably raise the debt ceiling and protect our 
financial security. We will protect our veterans and the care 
that you earned and were promised.
    So with that being said, I am--your testimony is--I am 
happy and then I am frustrated. When you talk about the SBA not 
being friendly and when you say--I think, Sergeant, you said 
you can get better results in the private sector. That is 
just--it shouldn't be that way.
    My wife retired in 2010, and called the SBA and the VA for 
small loans for a woman veteran. Zero results. So we went 
through this as a family some of the things you went through. 
You are the--you are the point people for veterans in this 
country and our small businesses. You are the big part of the 
engine and the innovators of our economy.
    And so to hear you talk about the struggles when we have 
these programs available. You see, we sit here every week. We 
talk about the SBA and how good it can be, and we listen to the 
administrators of the SBA talk about this, but you are boots on 
the ground. You have told us, each and every one of you--when 
my colleague Mr. Crane asked, are we doing it right? Can we do 
it better? Every one of you said we are not doing it right. 
That is frustrating.
    Lieutenant, in your comments, you talk about--you felt when 
you were coming out of service, you were maybe overqualified. 
Now as a businessowner, when you look for talent, has that been 
a benefit for you? You know, you talk about being mission-
specific. Tell us about the benefits that you have----
    Commander BURKS. Yeah, like--sir, like any veteran, I think 
that my experience--I have grown and continued to learn on how 
to translate that. I also believe that the younger veterans 
that I experience that come to Rost, Inc., or Midway, I just 
know and can speak their language and help them translate.
    So my individual experience on that is that, for younger 
veterans, there is improvement. For older veterans--and I don't 
consider myself terribly old, but 16 years in the Navy, you 
start to be the older guy on deck. And that is, older 
generations of veterans, you know, 40 and above, may not have 
had the benefit of that. And so how do they access that? 
Relationally, how do we loop them back in to the same 
opportunities that younger veterans are seeing too?
    Mr. STAUBER. Right. What I heard you say is the skills that 
the veterans bring to the workplace are different than 
civilians. And I think one of you mentioned about a 4-year 
degree.
    I think, ma'am, you mentioned a 4-year degree is like a 
high school diploma, what have you.
    I just think that--I could talk--we could talk a long time, 
all of us on both sides of the aisle, in our support for all of 
you. But I think that we need to hear this.
    And, Mr. Chair and Ranking Member, I appreciate you 
spending--number one, having this hearing, and then spending 
some time with us talking about the real boots on the ground, 
where the rubber meets the road, and being mission-specific to 
be able to be successful and entrepreneurs in our great 
country. And you all have made it greater because of your 
service.
    And, ma'am, I want to particularly thank you for your 
service coming into a male-dominated field and being 
successful.
    Thank you for your service. And we greatly appreciate all 
of you.
    Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Stauber.
    I now recognize Mr. Pappas from New Hampshire for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. PAPPAS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    And I want to echo those comments, and just thank all of 
the Members of our panel here today for your contributions to 
these proceedings. I think it is critically important that we 
hear your voices as part of our deliberations moving forward to 
understand how we can course-correct, make things better, make 
things streamlined, more accessible, especially when it comes 
to our veteran business owners.
    And I know that I learn a lot from going around my district 
and meeting some great small business owners who are part of 
the veteran community. I think of one that I met a couple years 
ago who talked about his Boots to Business experience. He runs 
a letterpress and a framing shop in Laconia, New Hampshire.
    And so, Ms. Weaver, I appreciate your comments about that 
being a window in time, right? And transition can be a very 
chaotic time. There is a lot of information coming at you. And 
so now that you are 7 years later, you know, you are finding it 
challenging to be able to continue to draw on that experience 
during that period.
    And so I am just wondering pretty simply--you have 
addressed this already--but should we be considering ways to 
have a longer term look and connection, not just to Boots on 
Business, but to opportunities that have been given to veterans 
as they transition out of the military?
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Thank you for your question. 
Absolutely. There just needs to be continuity between when you 
take the class and maybe 7 years down the road, maybe a year 
down the road. If there was anything available--networking, 
education--the Boots to Business was very basic in its approach 
to what veterans need to know when they are exiting and what 
they are going to need to start a business.
    But when you are actually starting a business, there are a 
lot of things you have no idea what to do. So writing a 
business plan, doing a profit/loss analysis. You don't learn 
any of that. They talk about it. This is what you may need to 
know.
    But maybe after the Boots to Business class and TAPs--which 
is very constrained because of the time requirements--the 
follow-up classes are things that you can take, are online 
seminars, are teaching you profit/loss analysis, are teaching 
you how to write a business plan, how to do a cost analysis of 
your goods during inflation and stuff like that.
    Thank you.
    Mr. PAPPAS. Well, thanks for that. I come out of a family 
small business experience, and our business has been open 106 
years. And when you have been around that long, there is some 
momentum to it, but there is so much risk and challenge in 
opening a new business. And I want to highlight some of the 
comments on entrepreneurship, which I really appreciate.
    And, Mr. Quezada, you talked about the collective that you 
helped start, which is really incredible and terrific.
    And I wanted to highlight one piece of legislation that I 
have introduced this Congress. It is a 3-year pilot program 
that would be overseen by SBA. It would enable hundreds of 
veterans to use their GI benefits to pursue entrepreneurial 
training and educational opportunities to help advance their 
careers.
    And I am just wondering if you can reflect on that in the 
short description I have given you and talk about the need for 
SBA and other agencies to really focus on entrepreneurship.
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Well, I want to thank you very much for 
pushing that forward. That sounds fantastic. I wish that was an 
opportunity when I stepped into business 8 years ago. 
Hopefully, that, I guess, moves forward. And outside of it 
passing, I hope you guys figure out a way to streamline that to 
veterans that are getting out in order for them to have access 
to that capital quickly and use it, you know, where need be 
within their business ventures, so----
    Mr. PAPPAS. Yeah. Well, we appreciate all of your comments 
here today. And I think one thing that is clear to this 
Committee and to those of us who serve in Congress is that 
veterans have put themselves on the line for this country, and 
they often put others before themselves. That is part of their 
DNA.
    And so when it comes to government agencies, whether it is 
SBA or the Department of Veterans Affairs, we have got to make 
sure that it is working for the end veteran, working for the 
end entrepreneur and business leader, to make sure that these 
programs are really geared and effective. And so your feedback 
is so valuable as part of that.
    So thank you, and I yield back my time.
    Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Pappas.
    I now recognize Mr. LaLota from New York for 5 minutes.
    Mr. LALOTA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I represent New York's First Congressional District, the 
eastern end of Long Island. Proudly, we are the home to about 
27,000 veterans, a very high population for New York State.
    My stepfather was a Navy man. My brother served 20 years in 
the Marines. And the best job I ever had, including this one, 
was being a naval officer where I got to serve alongside some 
awesome, selfless, brave Americans. And I want to join my 
colleagues in thanking you all for your service. Proudly, two 
of the four of you are my former shipmates, so appreciate you 
guys leading the way.
    While he is not here with us in person today, I would like 
to take a moment to highlight somebody from my district, a 
veteran, a small business owner, Stephen Hayduk. He is a 
Vietnam veteran, a father, and a former Suffolk County 
Department of Public Works commissioner. For almost 40 years, 
Mr. Hayduk has been at the helm of Hayduk Engineering, a 
company renowned for delivering exceptional, affordable service 
to its clients, and has served countless entrepreneurs.
    But from Long Island back to this room, I want to again say 
thanks so much for being here. Your testimony, like has been 
said before, is helping us craft legislation and budgets and 
whatnot to be able to help our veterans community. Our 
intention is to understand your experiences, explore avenues to 
make your jobs easier, to assist you, to uplift you and the 
entire veteran community. So we appreciate you being here.
    I personally have heard stories from many veteran small 
business owners on difficulties they have encountered along the 
way, specifically with the SBA: onerous collateral 
requirements, Byzantine application processes, having to 
provide years of lengthy financial backgrounds. The SBA is 
supposed to be there to help, but sometimes they miss the mark, 
and this Committee is supposed to fill in that gap when the SBA 
misses the mark, and your testimony helps us do that.
    Mr. Burks, sir, to you first. I appreciate your service in 
the nation's finest branch, the Navy, of course.
    Commander BURKS. Yes, sir.
    Mr. LALOTA. In your testimony, you talked about unique 
barriers to entrepreneurship for veterans. Can you share with 
the Committee some of those roadblocks? And if you can, advise 
us on how we can help clear some of those roadblocks.
    Commander BURKS. Yes, sir. And we have talked a little 
bit--or certain Members of this Committee have talked a little 
bit about the length of small business connections in 
communities and how--I have talked about veterans coming back 
don't necessarily have that initial network. So that is, you 
know, first and foremost what that is.
    I am proud of the United States Navy. I have heard in the 
past year or so the United States Navy has added financial 
literacy to incoming sailors so that they know from day one, 
one, the money they have and the, you know, exotic dancer they 
meet is not a good future financial investment. But two, the 
skills you are learning can be translated at the end of your 
service, rather than wait till the last 90 or 180 days to 
practice that when you are panicked and have no clue where you 
are going next.
    And so I think that is what the Navy is aware of, and I 
think it seems like a good idea that should yield fruits for 
future veterans to do that.
    Mr. LALOTA. I may or may not have some leadership 
experience with the issue you just pointed out.
    Commander BURKS. I am sure you have with that pin.
    Mr. LALOTA. Yeah.
    Nevertheless, Sergeant Quezada, you in your testimony 
characterized the SBA as wholly ineffective--well-intentioned, 
but wholly ineffective. Can you share--help us out. Can you 
share with this Committee what we can specifically do to help 
the SBA in its veterans initiatives?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah. I will just revisit, where I think 
the breakdown in communication lies is that, in the spirit of 
entrepreneurship, most individuals, if you are going to be in 
that type of role pursuing business, you are very apt to take 
on risk, weigh the cost of risk and reward, move forward, 
adapt, and overcome, and everything else that goes into 
business.
    However, I think on the other side of the aisle, when it 
comes to individuals that are working within the SBA, in order 
to help support us and other small business owners within the 
United States, I think the breakdown comes where--I would 
assume most of them have college educations, and they move 
straight into a job in order to help support. And so that is 
where I was mentioning the lack of or breakdown of 
communication because we are not speaking the same language. 
And most of us are very used to adapting, overcoming, and 
moving very fluidly, or hitting the walls and finding how to 
get around or over the barriers, per se. And the person on the 
other side who might be trying to help, they just--they don't 
understand kind of the pitfalls of what we are facing or the 
urgency, per se. So I think that is----
    Mr. LALOTA. One of my colleagues mentioned the GI Bill. Did 
I hear you say that you would like to see that the GI Bill be 
expanded for different uses rather than the traditional uses?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes. I think if veterans had the ability 
to tap into their GI Bill, whatever that funding might be--
let's say 200 grand or $400,000--if they are able to tap into 
that and apply that to a business venture as they leave the 
military--obviously, there has to be certain parameters and 
guidelines, but I think that is a phenomenal way for us to set 
them up for success and a win.
    And then I would assume, if that bill passes, there needs 
to be coaches involved or business individuals on that side 
that are going to walk kind of hand-in-hand or at least, hey, 
you are checking every 3 months or quarter, whatever it might 
be, 6 months, and then making sure that you are there to 
support as they continue to grow, and maybe the ability to 
release more funds as times become available.
    Mr. LALOTA. Awesome. Thanks for your testimony. I 
appreciate your feedback. Thanks for your service.
    I yield.
    Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, shipmate.
    I now recognize Mr. McGarvey from Kentucky for 5 minutes.
    Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank all of you all for being here today. Thank you very 
much for your service.
    I am from Kentucky, as the Chairman just said. It is the 
home of both Fort Campbell and Fort Knox, where tens of 
thousands of servicemembers are stationed, where many continue 
to live and start businesses upon leaving the service.
    In 2021, more than 20,000 veterans, servicemembers, and 
military spouses participated in the Boots to Business Program. 
In 2022, participation declined to roughly 18,000. In 2023, 
participation is expected to decline another 5 percent. Take 
that statistic.
    Now the next statistic. In 2018, the New York Federal 
Reserve reported that veteran-owned businesses submitted more 
applications for loans, lines of credit, and cash advances than 
their nonveteran counterparts. Yet 60 percent of veteran-owned 
businesses reported obtaining less financing than requested and 
experienced lower approval rates across the top three sources 
of credit: large banks, small banks, and online lenders.
    So looking at this right now, obviously, we want to help as 
many veterans get back and, as you said, Mr. Hyacinthe, go on 
the next mission. So kind of just following up on a lot of the 
questions you have been asked today, starting with Mr. Meuser 
and others.
    Given the decline in participation right now, the 
difficulty in access to capital that we are seeing for 
veterans--I just will start with you, Mr. Hyacinthe. What would 
you do if you were in our seats to help both of these things 
and get more veterans into becoming entrepreneurs?
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Thank you for that question. 
First, I would ask you guys to keep doing what you are doing. 
This is what it requires. Coming together. For veterans to 
truly get the support that they need, we as a society, as a 
nation, as a body, as a Committee, need to come together. So 
that is first and foremost.
    Secondly, I believe in the ability to give veterans access 
to capital. And if these certain entities are not providing 
access to capital or you see veterans declining, let's find 
other initiatives that are seeing a positive impact.
    What we are doing in Michigan could be replicated in 
certain places with other universities where the veterans are 
taught how to start a business, ideate that, launch it, and 
then give them some money to go and seed that. So we have 
opportunities to show that educating and giving the veteran 
funding can work.
    Mr. MCGARVEY. I appreciate that.
    I will just go down the line, ask everybody the same 
question.
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. I don't know if there is anything 
else you can do other than what you are doing now, because this 
is exactly what needs to be done. But I will say that when we 
go to apply for loans and we go to apply for business credit, 
lines of credit and stuff like that, although you guys 
understand that being a veteran carries a lot of weight and 
comes with a lot of accolades and leadership qualities and 
things like that, it is dropped when you are applying for the 
loan. You know, now it is Breakable Hearts is applying for the 
loan, not veteran-owned Breakable Hearts is applying for the 
loan.
    And so if there is any way to take the weight of, you know, 
the qualifications and stuff for being a veteran--and that 
holds its weight when you go to actually apply for these loans 
and things like that--that would be my suggestion. Some way to 
do that.
    Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you.
    Sergeant QUEZADA. I will just mirror what they both said. I 
believe each one of you sitting here shows that you guys and 
gals obviously care about veterans and small businesses and the 
healthy synergy between our government and the private sector.
    And so you continue to sit on this Committee and work 
together to collaborate and come up with answers and solutions, 
ideally. So thank you for doing that.
    And I will pass it over to Mr. Burks.
    Commander BURKS. Sir, thank you for the question. I think 
it is a relevant question. And I would maybe carry the ideas 
that my fellow veterans have shared.
    So one--some notes I wrote down--I would advise strongly 
discourage us using the Post-9/11 GI Bill as a block grant to 
veterans not related to education. But it could be used for 
lenders to understand as a loan guarantee that veterans with 
service who have--would have access to this could utilize it in 
that way. You know, it is the whole give a man a fish or teach 
a man to fish mentality. And that is what the GI Bill is for.
    The second part of that--and I really appreciate Staff 
Sergeant Weaver's idea--and that is your military service could 
be utilized as experience in industry for lending standards, 
especially for small- and medium-sized businesses that are 
related around trades for what you are doing or what you are 
trying to procure.
    If you are lookin--and I am concerned about businesses 
because of the nature of my position. Businesses that are--the 
owners want to retire, they have this trade experience, but 
they don't have somebody that they can pass it on to in the 
family or that they could sell it to, and a young veteran who 
has this experience, if that could be counted for them, would 
be enormous.
    Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you very much.
    I yield back.
    Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. McGarvey.
    I now recognize Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez from Washington for 5 
minutes, if she is ready.
    Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Yes, sir.
    Mr. ELLZEY. All right.
    Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Thank you.
    In the course of preparing for this hearing, my team spoke 
to Jake Dailey of Toledo, Washington. Jake served as a combat 
medic in Iraq, and carries that trauma that many veterans do.
    As he describes it, when he came home, he found a unique 
therapy in the outdoors as he learned how to use goats to rake 
the forest. And eventually, the veteran-owned startup Rake 
Force was born.
    Rake Force is a special purpose corporation that uses goats 
to eat through excess biomass on the forest floor and prevent 
wildfire, and return the forest to peak health. As the business 
grows, Jake aims to hire and empower more veterans in Lewis 
County. As Jake puts it, it is a win-win to manage forests in 
the West while also giving meaningful, healing work to 
veterans.
    Jake's story reminds me of how veteran-owned small 
businesses can have a multiplier effect in their community. One 
veteran success empowers and heals an entire veteran community.
    Mr. Hyacinthe, in your testimony, you mentioned how your 
first small business was committed to healing veterans through 
art. How can this Committee support veteran small business 
owners that have a similar focus on bettering society and 
responding to the unique issues that veterans face?
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. It is a great question. I think it 
is a question to our current times.
    When we look at the current iteration of industry, when we 
look at, you know, the success of technology, automation, in 
addition to the newly introduced ChatGPT, we need to allow 
veterans to be creators. Feed them the opportunities where they 
are in positions where they can be expressive, use their 
imagination.
    Regarding what we did was we saw an impact with Has Heart 
and how that impacted veterans through creativity and how that 
connected and collaborated with veterans. We said, could we do 
the same thing and apply it to children? So that is where we 
were able to create the Wimage app, which converts words to 
images, and now we have a show on PBS.
    I think what makes veterans unique--similar to your 
colleague or your constituent--is that he put himself in the 
position where he was able to heal--A, healing, right? 
Veterans, can we heal through the ventures that we are 
creating, and can we provide an opportunity for other veterans 
to heal through this venture that we started? And with that, 
can we expand it and empower other veterans?
    I am a strong believer in creativity and the arts, because 
I believe that giving veterans an opportunity to share their 
thoughts and ideas, that is where innovation flourishes and 
that is where community can find a place to come together.
    Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Thank you.
    Mr. Burks, thank you for your service and for taking the 
time to speak with us today. I want to take a moment to 
emphasize something you said earlier in your opening remarks: 
That through your military career, you developed some of the 
skills that make you a great candidate for your current 
position.
    I think it is incredibly important for us to recognize that 
our veterans coming out of service have acquired critical 
career skills, often beyond what could have been acquired in a 
4-year college.
    How can we better support veterans like yourself in 
identifying those skills and connecting them with careers where 
they would be valued?
    Commander BURKS. Yeah. And I appreciate the question, 
Congresswoman.
    I am not sure that I am equipped to give you a ideal answer 
beyond what we have already spoken about. At my postgraduate 
education, the veterans assistance program there was not 
connected to Boots to Business. It was not connected to a lot 
of the newer resources that are available.
    But what I hope that this Committee hears from me 
consistently, and that is relationships are what makes 
entrepreneurship successful, and veterans need that assistance 
in connecting those relationships when we get back to our 
communities.
    Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Thank you.
    Mr. Quezada, thank you for your service and for taking the 
time to speak with us today. I appreciate you raising the 
issues of barriers and red tape in seeking assistance with 
government processes.
    My husband and I own a small auto repair and a machine 
shop, and we too have experienced these challenges of applying 
for some of these programs where the dollars don't go where 
they would make the most sense, do the most value, but to the 
people who have the patience to navigate an opaque system.
    So I would love to hear more about your experiences and any 
advice you have for how we can specifically improve the 
experiences of veterans applying for these programs.
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Well, I will mirror what Mr. Burks said--
or, Burks, sorry. But everything for me, personally, as I have 
grown my business, relies on relationships.
    So I think, outside of the majority of veterans who are 
leaving the military, they already have the proper skill set to 
adapt, to overcome, to weather the storm, meet, you know, 
barriers head-on, and figure, you know, a way to problem-solve 
or solution-base.
    But I am a huge proponent of people and working with people 
and relationships. So that is how I have gotten to the success 
we have gotten to as a business.
    Ms. GLUSENKAMP PEREZ. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez.
    I now recognize Mr. Molinaro from New York for 5 minutes.
    Mr. MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Quezada, I am actually going to get back to you, and I 
would like to follow up on that question. But, very 
specifically, I just want to offer some comments before I do. 
But I will give you some time to think about it.
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah.
    Mr. MOLINARO. The challenges of accessing SBA assistance, 
in particular for veterans' business development, think about 
very specifically some of the steps that we might take to 
streamline access. And I recognize the value of building those 
relationships.
    I just--I want to join my colleagues, certainly, in 
thanking all of you for not only your testimony but your 
service. And I, certainly, this weekend and every weekend, join 
my colleagues and every American in expressing our thanks to 
the men and women who have, continue, and will serve this 
country.
    Veteran-owned businesses, as we recognize, are extremely 
important in our communities. According to JPMorgan, about 25 
percent of transitioning servicemembers want to start a 
business, and yet very few have the network or resources 
necessary to make that happen.
    I served the last 12 years as a county executive, where we 
identify the very specific barriers and challenges to veterans 
reentering the workforce and then building their own business 
opportunities. In particular, in order to access stable 
employment, we provided a great amount of support in housing, 
education, counseling, mental health services, and 
transportation. All those wraparound services, in particular, 
very, very critical to enhancing access.
    And so, Mr. Quezada, I will get back to very specifically 
the question. Give us your thoughts on streamlining more 
opportunities and access to SBA assistance and how we might do 
that. And I appreciate the relationship-building, but what 
specifically might we do?
    Sergeant QUEZADA. First off, I would like to know, I guess, 
out of all the lending capabilities out there within the United 
States, what does the SBA account for, percentage-wise, 
compared to every other type of lending out there, for one.
    And then, two, the assumption would be that every State is 
in lockstep with how to work and determine or circumnavigate--
actually, sorry--provide a cohesive answer or solution to 
veterans or to small-business owners in order to access, you 
know, capital through the SBA.
    I don't know if that is necessarily the case. I have talked 
to several different bankers who have some wherewithal with the 
SBA, whether it is a 7(a) or a 504 or some of the other 
capabilities out there, but nobody seems to fully understand or 
have all the answers. And I spent a couple different times just 
getting shuffled around to different banking institutions 
through the State.
    So there probably needs to be some type of baseline that 
everybody understands clearly.
    Mr. MOLINARO. State to State. So uniformity in State 
delivery, at least within States' delivery of access. Single 
point of contact, I assume. And the ability to share 
information so that you are not ping-ponging around from lender 
to lender and then through the bureaucracy. That----
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Correct.
    Mr. MOLINARO.--is fair?
    So there are U.S. companies that are making significant 
investment in building up veteran employment and 
entrepreneurship opportunities. Walmart, as we likely know, 
invests heavily in veterans, hiring over half a million 
veterans as employees and spending now more than $10 billion 
with veteran-owned suppliers.
    In my part of New York, Syracuse, New York, Syracuse 
University has spearheaded the creation of Coalition for 
Veteran-Owned Businesses, which helps support veteran-, 
servicemember-, and military-spouse-owned businesses by 
connecting them to education, training, and other service 
supports. With the help of companies like Walmart, Johnson & 
Johnson, and Lockheed Martin, the coalition has provided over 
13,000 veteran-owned small businesses with opportunities.
    In the last few seconds I have, it is important that 
companies continue to make these sort of strategic investments 
and partner to advance job opportunities with veteran-owned 
suppliers.
    For any one of you, what are some of the ways that you 
think industry, larger employers and businesses, could 
collaborate in a similar way to help veteran-owned businesses 
like your own?
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. I can speak to that, and I think I 
addressed one specific issue in my opening statement.
    I think AAFES, the Navy Exchange, the Commissary, the VA 
Canteens, I think they have an important role to play in 
fostering veterans in their venture and entrepreneurship 
pursuits.
    We look at Liberty Weaver. Why can't the Commissary create 
a pilot program where individuals of her talents that have 
awesome baking skills get an opportunity to create a line of 
baking goods inside the Commissary and pilot that? Why----
    Mr. MOLINARO. So leveraging--I apologize. Just to allow--in 
3 seconds or less--leveraging the power of the federal 
government.
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Absolutely.
    Mr. MOLINARO. Anyone else on the private side?
    I am out. Mr. Chairman, I yield back to you.
    Mr. ELLZEY. If you want a couple more minutes to expound on 
that question, you may.
    Mr. MOLINARO. I just wouldn't mind if someone else--and I 
appreciate what you had to say.
    If one other witness----
    Mr. ELLZEY. Go ahead. You have 2 more minutes.
    Mr. MOLINARO. Well, I didn't need them.
    Okay, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Molinaro.
    Mr. MOLINARO. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. ELLZEY. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    First of all, Petty Officer Hyacinthe, I feel like Wimee is 
staring at me. And I don't know if he is powered by AI or not, 
but he is making me a little bit nervous. He has been staring 
at me for, like, a half-hour. But I am glad you brought him 
with you.
    None of you all were drafted. You all have a servant's 
heart, and you said, ``Here am I. Send me.'' And I hope that 
you have seen from this panel today and the folks who have been 
up here, this Committee actually cares about your success.
    I know that you were all trained for at least 1 year in the 
chosen profession that you had. I know supply school lasted a 
year, and an advanced degree. You went through training your 
entire career for spec ops. You did at least a year of training 
for dental training. And Seabees are always training, because 
they are always creating things.
    The least we could do in our country is give you a hand-off 
from the DOD to the VA without any break in service.
    So, if we are willing to train you for at least a year, 
minimum, regardless of your MOS or whatever training that you 
get for your profession in the military--you get none of that 
on the way out, absolutely zero. And what the DOD does, whether 
you have been in combat or not, is, they chew you up, spit you 
out, and say, ``Good luck. Godspeed. Here is a 1-day TAP class. 
And there is the VA in the corner. Good luck. Hope you get you 
some disability.''
    Ultimately, I think it is the responsibility of a 
bipartisan attempt over the next few years of our Congress to 
ensure that the DOD--who doesn't, at this point, have to do 
anything for you once you are gone--that the DOD not release 
you from Active Duty until you have gotten a full work-up of 
your disability rating; a full psychological and mental 
evaluation, if you have seen combat, to get you the care that 
you need; and then any training and transfer of the skills that 
you currently have into the civilian world, be it a welder or 
anything else. Right now, they don't currently make sure that 
you have that on the way out. But, also, if you intend to be an 
entrepreneur, to link you up with an SBA caseworker that can 
help you on your way.
    I am sure all four of you, as I have listened to your 
stories, probably didn't figure you would end up where you are 
today, but you have to at least have the opportunity to do so. 
Because that lost year after you get out--and I don't care if 
you are a lieutenant commander or if you are an E5. I had 20 
years in the Navy as a Navy commander, and when I got out, I 
had no sense of where I belonged. I had lost all my peers, I 
had lost all my family, except for, you know, my wife and 
children. Obviously I had those. But that sense of camaraderie 
that you have is completely gone, and you are cut off from it. 
That is not right.
    So we need to have a link-up between the DOD and the VA so 
that you don't lose that year. Because if you lose that year--
especially if you are a young sailor or airman or soldier with 
a young family, you have to get a job. If you don't have that 
disability rating, you are not going to get a hiring 
preference. If you don't have that disability rating, you are 
not getting any money coming in. So we need to do a better job 
of that.
    So, at some point--I just want you to know I was a small-
business owner, and the pit in my stomach evinced itself when I 
saw all the things that you have had to go through. And I wish 
you every success.
    And someday I want to come to Midway Games and challenge 
you in axe-throwing.
    Commander BURKS. Yes, sir.
    Mr. ELLZEY. I will kick your tail.
    Sergeant First Class Quezada, I want to come to Founding 
Fathers and get a haircut. I need one today.
    I am going to buy some chocolate for my bride from 
Breakable Hearts. In fact, we were in Amelia Island just 2 
weeks ago. I wish I had known about your business then. I would 
have come by, because I am sure at some point there in that 
time I was in the doghouse and needed to get out of it. So you 
are going to be my saving grace.
    And, of course, I want to come see Wimee the robot and your 
AI training at some point and your cartoon at some point. I 
think it is fabulous. Who would have thought that a Seabee 
would be doing ``Wimee's Words'' and puppetry? But I am really 
happy that you guys are all doing that.
    In the few minutes we have left, Commander Burks, if you 
were the guy that was now about to get out and you had one 
thing to go back and do over again to get you to here, what 
would it be? One thing you didn't do that you needed from the 
DOD or the VA or anything at all?
    Commander BURKS. Yeah. I appreciate the thought on a better 
pipeline between DOD and VA. Because my transition was rocky 
for exactly the reasons you have talked about--mental health 
support, your loss of sense of identity when you leave Active 
Duty into Reserves or civilian life or career. I had no clue. 
And I think that I would have told myself getting into the 
Navy, it is going to be rough getting out of the Navy.
    Mr. ELLZEY. Ms. Weaver?
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. It is rough. It is very rough.
    Mr. ELLZEY. You can think about it.
    Mr. Quezada?
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Okay. Come back to me.
    Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah, the one thing I continually 
recommend to young men and women who are going into the 
military is, you know, be secure in your identity before you go 
in. Don't allow the military to dictate who you become. At some 
point, you are going to leave, whether it is 2 years or 20 
years. So, as you leave, make sure you know who you are as an 
individual and where you stand. And that helped me transition 
out when I did pretty rapidly, to where I didn't tie my 
identity to what I did in the military.
    So that was one thing.
    And then, two, probably set up some type of, you know, 
short-term and long-term goals, you know, 1-year to 5-years 
life map on where they came from, where they are currently, 
where they think they want to go, and don't lose sight of that 
mission. So----
    Mr. ELLZEY. Okay. Thank you.
    Ms. Weaver?
    Staff Sergeant WEAVER. That did inspire me. Thank you.
    I would set up some type of financial planning. I know--I 
heard earlier that the Navy is offering that now. That wasn't 
available for me when I was in the Air Force. But that would 
definitely set you up for success when you are transitioning, 
because there are so many unknowns. You don't know if you are 
going to get disability. You don't know what job you are going 
to get or how money is going to start coming in.
    So that would be my advice.
    Mr. ELLZEY. Close us out, Mr. Hyacinthe.
    Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Hooyah.
    Completely agree with my fellow veterans. I believe that 
transition is a very, very challenging transition, and that 
year--that year can feel like 10 years.
    But one thing I would give advice to, for veterans who are 
getting out, is to find an organization to continue serving 
with. Habitat for Humanity, Team Rubicon, Mission Continues--
those are opportunities where veterans, while they are still 
trying to find their mission, can perhaps continue to serve, to 
find that purpose.
    And, at the same time, it just goes back to who we are: We 
are servants. That is what we have been trained on. And if we 
can find an opportunity to keep serving and, hopefully, 
throughout that mission, find our purpose.
    That is my, you know, answer to your question.
    Mr. ELLZEY. Well, that is all really good advice from all 
four of you.
    So I think we need a pilot program for peer counseling. 
Because, as we get out, the peer counseling is what is missing, 
the family feeling of people who have been there before. All 
four of you have been there before. I would like to see more 
veterans who have gone into small business being able to mentor 
and be a peer counselor for those young men and women getting 
out and choosing to go down your path.
    Well, I have gone over my time, but nobody was there to 
tell me I couldn't. So I think we are pretty much done.
    I would like to thank our witnesses for their testimony and 
appearing before us today. We are all very proud of you and 
want to see you succeed.
    So, without objection, Members have 5 legislative days to 
submit additional materials and written questions for the 
witnesses to the Chair, which will be forwarded to the 
witnesses. And I ask the witnesses to please respond promptly.
    If there is no further business, without objection, the 
Committee is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 4:17 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
                           
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