[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON
H.R. 291; H.R. 645; H.R. 728; H.R. 746;
H.R. 1169; H.R. 1635; H.R. 1669; H.R. 1767;
H.R. 1786; H.R. 1798; AND H.R. 1799
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
THURSDAY, MARCH 30, 2023
__________
Serial No. 118-8
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via http://govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
51-952 WASHINGTON : 2023
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COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking
American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina MIKE LEVIN, California
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO,
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas Pennsylvania
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
Jon Clark, Staff Director
Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin, Chairman
NANCY MACE, South Carolina MIKE LEVIN, California Ranking
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida Member
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the
current publication process and should diminish as the process is
further refined.
C O N T E N T S
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THURSDAY, MARCH 30, 2023
Page
OPENING STATEMENTS
The Honorable Derrick Van Orden, Chairman........................ 1
The Honorable Mike Levin, Ranking Member......................... 5
WITNESSES
Panel 1
Mr. Joseph Garcia, Executive Director of Education Service,
Department of Veterans Affairs................................. 2
Accompanied by:
Mr. Nick Pamperin, Executive Director of Veteran Readiness
and Employment, Department of Veterans Affairs
Dr. Keith Harris, Senior Executive Homelessness Agent, Department
of Veterans Affairs............................................ 4
Panel 2
Ms. Tammy Barlet, Vice President of Government Affairs, Student
Veterans of America (See Prepared Statement Under Appendix)
Mr. Matthew Brennan, Veteran Education and Employment Policy
Analyst, The American Legion (See Prepared Statement Under
Appendix)
Ms. Alicia Boddy, Chief Operations and Development Officer, Code
Platoon (See Prepared Statement Under Appendix)
Mr. Patrick Murry, Director, National Legislative Service,
Veterans of Foreign Wars (See Prepared Statement Under
Appendix)
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements Of Witnesses
Mr. Joseph Garcia Prepared Statement............................. 25
Ms. Tammy Barlet Prepared Statement.............................. 31
Mr. Matthew Brennan Prepared Statement........................... 42
Ms. Alicia Boddy Prepared Statement.............................. 56
Mr. Patrick Murry Prepared Statement............................. 65
Statement For The Record
Disabled American Veterans....................................... 69
LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON
H.R. 291; H.R. 645; H.R. 728; H.R. 746;
H.R. 1169; H.R. 1635; H.R. 1669; H.R. 1767;
H.R. 1786; H.R. 1798; AND H.R. 1799
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THURSDAY, MARCH 30, 2023
U.S. House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity,
Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
Washington, D.C.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m., in
room 390, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Derrick Van Orden
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Derrick Van Orden, Ciscomani,
Levin, McGarvey, and Ramirez.
Also present: Representative Cherfilus-McCormick.
OPENING STATEMENT OF DERRICK VAN ORDEN, CHAIRMAN
Mr. Van Orden. The subcommittee will come to order. Good
morning. I am pleased to see everybody here today, especially
on such a busy day by everybody. I guess it is just us.
We are going to discuss 11 bills this morning, but before
we get started, I want to remind everyone we are going to take
a moment to reflect on why we are here speaking about these
incredibly important topics. I would like to highlight a fellow
veteran, Senior Chief Mike Day, former Navy Seal, Navy Cross
recipient. He has been a friend of mine for a couple of
decades, and he can only be described as an American hero. He
was shot 27 times in Iraq. With his primary weapon disabled, he
drew his pistol and then he killed all of the men that shot him
27 times. Then he walked himself to the medical evacuation
helicopter.
Three days ago, Senior Chief Mike Day succumbed to his
unseen war wounds, the devils that plagued so many of us that
have served our Nation, and he took his own life. We are here
today to prevent this from ever happening again.
With that said, let us get into this. Today we are going to
highlight 11 bills. I am only going to speak about four of them
in the interest of time.
The first one I would like to speak about is H.R. 1798. I
introduced this, and it is the Protect Military Dependents Act.
In a nutshell, this is what it does: If you are eligible for
veterans' educational benefits and you fail to meet your
obligation, after giving these benefits to your children or
your spouse, they cannot be held financially accountable. You
can and you should. To me, that is a winner right there.
Then the Employee Vets Act. What this does is it allows
members of the Department of Labor to interact with our
servicemembers during the Transition Assistance Program, which
is when you are getting out of the service, just to make sure
that, hopefully, our veterans or the soon-to-be veterans are
employed prior to getting out of the service, which will help
prevent suicide.
I also want to talk about the Veteran Employment Through
Technology Education Courses (VET-TEC) bill, which I think is
awesome, and it is introduced by a friend of mine named Juan
Ciscomani. He is just a fantastic guy from Arizona. It has been
an incredibly successful program where it is actually working,
and we want to take this from a temporary thing to a permanent
thing.
Then in the spirit of bipartisanship, I would like to also
highlight a bill. It is H.R. 645. It was introduced by
Representative McCormick. She is a Democrat from Florida. This
allows several different things to help combat veterans'
homelessness. All of this is in the record.
I do have a couple of questions. First and foremost, with
the bill, excuse me, the Healthy Foundations for Homeless
Veterans Act, in 2022, Fiscal Year 2022, the VA only expended
34 percent of the funds allocated to them, $20 million. Two
things I want to know: Where did the money go that you did not
spend? I also want to know why you are asking for the same
amount of money. Oh, sorry. We will get to that in a second.
Then I also want to make sure that--can I have that, please?
Excuse me. Prior to yielding to the ranking member--excuse me,
I am new at this. Okay, while we are waiting for the ranking
member to appear, I am going to go ahead and introduce the
witness panel.
Our first witnesses are from the Department of Veterans
Affairs. Mr. Joseph Garcia, executive director of Education
Services; Mr. Nick Pamperin, executive director of Veterans
Readiness and Employment; and Mr. Keith Harris, senior
executive homelessness agent. I ask everybody to--I ask the
Department of Veterans Affairs witnesses on our first panel to
please stand and raise your right hand.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you. Let the record reflect the
witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
Mr. Garcia, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver
your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF JOSEPH GARCIA
Mr. Garcia. Good morning, Chairman Van Orden, Ranking
Member Levin, and other members of the subcommittee. Thank you
for the opportunity to discuss pending legislation that would
affect VA's programs and services. With me today are Dr. Keith
Harris, national director of clinical operations in the
Homeless Program office at the Veterans Health Administration,
and Nick Pamperin, executive director for Veteran Readiness and
Employment Service at the Veterans Benefit Administration.
Mr. Chairman, with 11 bills on the agenda, I will highlight
several in my oral statement. While VA fully supports several
of the proposed bills, there are areas of concern for some and
were outlined in more detail in my written testimony. VA
supports with amendments the draft VET-TEC Authorization Act of
2023. This bill would permanently authorize VA to carry out a
program for covered individuals with the opportunity to enroll
in high technology education.
First, the bill would only authorize 8,000 covered
individuals to participate during a fiscal year. These
individuals could carry over into the next Fiscal Year and thus
limit the number who could participate in the program.
Second, this bill would mandate that VA charge 1 month of
entitlement for covered individuals who have remaining
entitlement under other GI Bill chapters for every month of
entitlement used under this high technology program. This
provision would be inequitable as it would allow some
beneficiaries who have already used all of their VA educational
benefits to receive more entitlement, while others would lose
out on their remaining entitlement.
VA would support two other bills on the agenda if they were
amended. Specifically, the draft bill that would allow VA to
restore educational assistance entitlement because of the
suspension or termination of a course or program by reason of a
determination of fraud by the commissioner of the Federal Trade
Commission or the Secretary of Education; and the draft bill
regarding liability for overpayments in case of transferred
entitlement under the post 9-11 GI Bill.
One of the bills that VA has concerns with is H.R. 291, the
Vaccine Discharge Parity Act. This bill would include a general
discharge under honorable conditions on the sole basis that the
individual failed to obey lawful order to receive a COVID-19
vaccine as a qualifying discharge for entitlement under the
Montgomery and post 9-11 GI Bills. VA opposes this bill as we
are concerned that enactment would create inequity for
servicemembers discharged for various reasons and not meeting
the honorable discharge requirement. Only service members with
the COVID-19 character of discharge reason would be eligible to
receive educational assistance, while servicemembers with the
same character of discharge but different reasons would not be
eligible for educational assistance. VA opposes section 2C of
the bill that would adjust home loan fees with the purpose of
helping to offset the cost of this bill.
VA also opposes the draft Streamlining Aviation for
Eligible Veterans Act or the SAFE Veterans Act. This bill would
add a statement that a rehabilitation program may include
flight training that does not lead to a degree. The purpose of
the Veterans Readiness and Employment (VR&E) program is to
provide all services and assistance necessary to enable
veterans with service-connected disabilities to achieve
independence in daily living and to obtain and maintain
suitable employment. A rehabilitation program that includes
flight training but does not lead to a degree would be
inconsistent with VR&E needs training program requirements.
Finally, VA fully supports the draft bill that would
require VA to provide certificates of eligibility and award
letters using electronic means. VA also fully supports the bill
that increases the amount for education assistance in the
Republic of the Philippines.
Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. I will pass it
over to Dr. Harris for his opening statement from Veterans
Health Administration (VHA).
[The Prepared Statement Of Joseph Garcia Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Garcia. The written statement
from Mr. Garcia will be entered into the hearing record.
Dr. Harris, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver
your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF KEITH HARRIS
Mr. Harris. Thank you, sir. Good morning, Chairman Van
Orden, Ranking Member Levin, members of the committee,
committee staff. Thank you for the opportunity to speak
specifically today to H.R. 645, the Healthy Foundations for
Homeless Veterans Act. We are here to speak in strong support
of this bill.
H.R. 645 permanently authorizes the vital temporary
flexibilities granted in section 4201 of Isakson Roe that are
set to expire with the end of the public health emergency on
May 11. I am here in part to provide a little background as to
where these flexibilities came from.
Despite the essential nature of these flexibilities, VA
historically was not authorized to provide them. Early in the
COVID pandemic, both the House and Senate Veterans' Affairs
Committees approached us at VA and asked what we needed to
support homeless veterans in this unprecedented time. Homeless
individuals already face great risks in terms of morbidity and
mortality, and these risks are exponentially greater in the
face of COVID.
We consulted with homeless program personnel around the
country and developed a list of flexibilities that would enable
us to best respond to the needs of homeless veterans. We
brought those back to the committees and engaged in a
productive and collaborative process at that point that
culminated with Section 4201 of Isakson Roe. For the first time
in the history of VA homeless programs, under 4201 medical
centers have been able to directly purchase and provide
lifesaving food, water, clothing, supplies to homeless
veterans.
We have also provided vital transportation assistance, as
well as communications devices, all of which have allowed
homeless and at-risk veterans to connect with healthcare
providers, employers, landlords, and support networks. We
estimate that over 100,000 veterans have benefited in one form
or another from this life-changing authority, and we attribute
recent progress in housing homeless veterans, in part, to this
authority and its impact on services.
In preparation for this hearing, I asked Network Homeless
coordinators around the country for examples of the impact of
4201 on veterans. I received at this point a hundred stories
from field staff around the country, and literally more are
still coming in; I just checked my phone before we started. I
wanted to share one brief illustrative example that highlights
the impact of authority to directly pay for shelter, phone, and
transportation.
This veteran was residing in a storage shed in the middle
of rural America. Because of 4201 authority, VA was able to
equip the veteran with a phone, pay for a hotel to get him
immediately off the streets, and use Rideshare to get him to
the hotel. I am certain this assistant saved his life as he
refused to leave the storage shed if he had to go into a
shelter and live with other people. The Midwest was
experiencing the Arctic blast with temperatures reaching 17
below 0.
He then used his phone and Rideshare for housing searches,
appointments, and job interviews. The veteran is now employed,
housed, and thriving in the Department of Housing and Urban
Development-Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing (HUD-VASH)
program. Before 4201, this veteran would literally likely have
died in that freezing storing shed.
Thousands of veterans have similarly benefited from this
life-changing and even lifesaving authority. Looking ahead,
thousands more will need the kinds of assistance that 4201 made
possible. For these reasons, we applaud Congress for taking
action on this bill, and we strongly support H.R. 645 to
permanently authorize the flexibilities in 4201.
Thank you for the opportunity to be here, and I look
forward to any questions.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Dr. Harris. The written statement
of Dr. Harris will be entered into the record for the hearing.
In accordance with Committee Rule 5E, I ask unanimous
consent that Representative Cherfilus, please excuse me if I
mispronounce that, McCormick from Florida be permitted to
participate in today's subcommittee hearing.
Okay. Without objection. Without objection, so ordered.
I now yield to the ranking member, Mr. Levin, for his
opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF MIKE LEVIN, RANKING MEMBER
Mr. Levin. Thank you, Chairman Van Orden. Thank you for
holding this legislative hearing on 11 pieces of legislation
today.
Before getting started, I just wanted to offer my prayers
for the families of the nine soldiers who were killed this
morning after two U.S. Army helicopters collided during a
training mission near an Army base on the Kentucky-Tennessee
border. Our prayers are with them and their families.
The work we do today will prepare our subcommittee to
continue building upon our accomplishments over the last 4
years to improve veteran education, house more homeless
veterans, and place more veterans into jobs. I want to
personally thank the chairman for including my legislation,
H.R. 1786, to employ more veterans at the Department of
Interior. Many of you know I place a great importance on
conserving our Federal lands and waters, and I can think of no
better group of individuals to continue their service by
protecting our natural treasures than our veterans. Not only
will our bipartisan GROW Act employ veterans, but I believe it
will also create a hiring model for all Federal agencies in the
future. We need to hire more veterans.
In addition, I am pleased that Chairman Van Orden included
H.R. 645, the Healthy Foundations for Homeless Veterans Act,
from our colleague, Representative Cherfilus-McCormick.
Chairman, your pronunciation was perfect. Well done.
Congress acted swiftly during the COVID-19 pandemic to
provide VA temporary authorities, and no one can argue with the
results. Since this committee provided VA with the temporary
authorities, which would be made permanent by H.R. 645, nearly
$9 million have been used to support over 39,000 homeless or
at-risk veterans with foundational needs, like food, shelter,
clothing, and transportation to medical appointments and job
interviews. VA's work during the pandemic to help more homeless
veterans was truly an accomplishment, but it was only possible
because this committee acted. Now it is time to act again
before authorities are lost.
This legislation will ensure that when VA and its community
providers are caring for homeless veterans, they are able to
purchase basic needs in support of those veterans' journeys
into stable, permanent housing.
Also on the agenda today is H.R. 1767 from Representative
Ramirez, which, excitingly, is the first piece of legislation
she has introduced as a Member of Congress. The Student Veteran
Benefit Restoration Act would make thousands of veterans whole
after schools they attended failed them. I am proud to be a co-
lead on the legislation and I hope to see it enacted into law.
Bipartisan student veteran education reform has also been a
hallmark of this committee. We have delivered time and time
again, but our work is not done. Legislation builds upon our
Isakson Roe Veterans Healthcare and Benefits Improvement Act of
2020 and the Veterans Auto and Education Improvement Act of
2022, and continues to push bad actors out of the veteran
education space.
Finally, I am glad that we are going to be considering two
Republican bills that I am co-leading. H.R. 1169, the VA E-
Notification Enhancement Act, from my friend Representative
Arrington of Texas, would ensure that veterans can receive
notifications for education benefits electronically, making the
process easier, quicker, and more efficient for veterans. H.R.
1635, the Filipino Education Fairness Act from Representative
Kiggans, finally fixes an outdated limitation on GI Bill
payments for education programs in the Philippines. We must
deliver fairness for student veterans who wish to pursue their
education in the Philippines and, for that matter, everywhere
else.
With that, I am ready to get to work today, ready to hear
views from VA and our Veterans Service Organization (VSO)
partners. Are we going straight to questions or--I will yield
back my time for now.
Mr. Van Orden. That would be great. We are just going to--
--
Mr. Levin. Perfect.
Mr. Van Orden.--move things and then we are going to
questions.
Mr. Levin. Go for it.
Mr. Van Orden. All right. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin.
I appreciate----
Mr. Levin. Thank you, Chairman.
Mr. Van Orden. We will now proceed directly to questions. I
ask members and witnesses to please respect the 5-minute rule.
I will recognize myself for 5 minutes.
We kind of covered this briefly. I am only going to talk
about 4 of the 11 bills. In the spirit of bipartisanship, we
will be highlighting one for my Democratic colleagues.
The first one is H.R. 1798 that I introduced, the
Protecting Military Dependents Act. We spoke about this. If a
servicemember is eligible for VA benefits and he gives those to
his or her children or spouse for educational benefits, and
then the servicemember does not meet the threshold for those
benefits any longer due to misconduct, that the child or the
spouse is not held accountable financially by the government. I
think that is just the right thing to do.
The Employee Acts, again, it is going to amend Title 38 to
make sure that members of the Department of Labor from each
State can participate in the Transition Assistance Program with
the goal of having our veterans employed prior to leaving the
service.
VET-TEC, you kidding me? It is working. Let us do more of
that. Introduced by Juan Ciscomani, my Republican colleague
from Arizona.
Then I also want to highlight the H.R. 645, Healthy
Foundations for Homeless Veterans Act. That is introduced by my
friend, Representative Cherfilus-McCormick.
Mr. Van Orden. Sheesh, that is a hard one.
All right. Dr. Harris, housing homeless veterans is
incredibly important to the subcommittee and for my ranking
member, Mr. Levin, and his top priority legislative--his top
legislative priority, and I appreciate that greatly. We want to
make sure that we can do whatever we can for these veterans to
fulfill that, but we still also have to uphold our duty to
protect the taxpayers from rampant spending.
H.R. 645 would make permanent Section 4201 of the Isakson
and Roe Veterans Healthcare Benefit Program Act of 2020.
However, the data supplied to our committee by you shows that
you used only 34 percent of the funds authorized in Fiscal Year
2022.
My two questions are this. It is a $20 million program.
Sixty-six percent of this money, these moneys went unexpended.
Where is the rest of the money?
Mr. Harris. Thank you, sir. I would say there is a bit to
unpack in this. It is not a very simple yes or no.
Mr. Van Orden. All right.
Mr. Harris. Fiscal year 2022 was the first full year we had
this authority.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
Mr. Harris. That $20 million is not a fixed program
budgeted amount. It is the amount we estimated was needed by
the field that year. We wanted to aim high. The last thing we
wanted was for medical centers to run out of money with
homeless veterans still in need.
Mr. Van Orden. Yep.
Mr. Harris. We have never had this before. We took a guess
at $20 million. Turned out a lot less than that was spent in
2022.
There is different reasons for that. We did not know what
to estimate the need at. There were also loads of obstacles in
terms of logistics and procurement and purchasing these things.
Homeless programs have wanted for decades to have these
authorities; they have been told no for decades. Fiscal
departments have been trained to say no to these things for
decades. There is a lot of that to overcome.
All that said, we in Fiscal Year 2023, we are on pace now
to spend what annualized would be about $8 million a year. That
is actually the amount we allocated for Fiscal Year 2023. We
dialed the amount we sent out significantly lower, down to 8
million. While we are not on pace to hit that now, the month of
March, we spent $731,000, which annualizes 8.8 million. We
think we have now dialed in the amount that field staff need
and how much we should put out.
As for where the money from Fiscal Year 2022 went, VHA
Finance handles American Rescue Plan (ARP) funds, which is how
this was funded. They sweep that excess back on a pretty
regular basis, actually. Happy to take that question for the
record as to what exactly was done with it at that point.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you. The quick follow up, though, is
you are asking for $20 million.
Mr. Harris. Yes.
Mr. Van Orden. You just said you needed eight.
Mr. Harris. That is the rest to unpack. There is several
pieces of this.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Let us take that for the record,
please. Mr. Garcia, during the last briefing committee staff
received, they were told that currently you only have one full-
time employee working for VET-TEC. Is that correct?
Mr. Garcia. Sir, in Education Service we recently hired
somebody. She was a mom with two children. She took the VET-TEC
training online, which is great because she is a mom that had
child care concerns. She actually was hired, but then lost a
job because her husband is a long haul truck driver, so she had
to lose that job because of child care concerns. Our staff was
working with her and actually placed her. She is now helping us
by designing a SharePoint site and using her project management
skills from VET-TEC to improve our system and processes. So
that, to your point, is another example of the VET-TEC success.
We recently hired her through the VET-TEC program.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay, great. Well, thank you, Mr. Garcia. I
would like to have my staff connect with you again to make sure
that we can flush this out completely. In respecting my fellow
member's time, I will now yield and recognize Ranking Member
Levin for 5 minutes to question the witnesses.
Mr. Levin. I thank my friend the chairman, and I will
actually start by picking up where he left off. I will ask Dr.
Harris, why are you asking for 20 million when you only need
eight?
Mr. Harris. Thank you, sir. I hate unfinished answers. The
reason is that that number includes both the goods and services
side of 4201, but also the Rideshare program, which is also
authorized under the transportation portion of 4201 and H.R.
645. The accounting you have received to date is strictly for
the rides and goods and services, but Rideshare is also
included in our cost projections going forward. That explains
the delta, 12 million for Rideshare, 8 million for goods and
services.
Mr. Levin. All right. I appreciate that clarification. Let
me just say I certainly support my friend and colleague,
Congresswoman Cherfilus-McCormick, H.R. 645 Healthy Foundations
for Homeless Veterans Act. Proud to cosponsor the bill. Think
it fills a critical gap in resources for homeless veterans.
Let me shift to something we heard last week at our
committee's budget hearing. I had asked Secretary McDonough
about the expiration of the elevated grant and per diem rate
for veterans residing in transitional housing. He indicated
that the expiration is going to create major problems for VA to
end veteran homelessness and could significantly set us back
from reaching that shared goal. We know how vital nonprofits
are to VA's efforts to house every homeless veteran; got great
relationships with our local nonprofits in San Diego. Very
concerned about the stress that the expiration of these
authorities will put on our community partners.
I will go back to you, Dr. Harris. As the authority expires
for the grant and per diem rate, how will our reliance on
community nonprofits and philanthropy shift? Can we reasonably
expect nonprofits to be able to fill the gaps in services and
resources that Congress could provide by making these
authorities permanent and fully funding VA's homeless programs?
Mr. Harris. It is a really important question, and with
your permission, I am going to expand the answer to this
expiring authority, also.
Mr. Levin. You got time to unpack.
Mr. Harris. You are right that the elevated rate and grant
per diem is expiring. That will put a strain on grantees and
nonprofits. The expiration of 4201's authority will put a much
greater strain on those and it ends up being the same answer,
but that is what I want to speak to. As much as I would like to
say otherwise, the answer is no, they cannot fill all the gaps
that are left when we can not do it ourselves.
I want to be clear about what I mean by that. We have so
many permanent housing resources. We have 100,000-plus HUD-VASH
vouchers. We have millions in Supportive Services for Veterans
Families (SSVF). We have loads of temporary and transitional
resources. We can house homeless veterans in the resources we
have. We could house thousands more than we have now. The
problem is getting them into those beds and keeping them there,
and that is where these flexibilities have helped us the most.
I just want to give you a quick sense of how that works.
Before these authorities, a veteran shows up at the ER,
chronically homeless, seriously mentally ill. We say, Mr.
Smith, we are not going to be able to admit you tonight. You
are going to have to go to a shelter. Here is a list. Go find a
shelter. You do not have a car. You are going to need to find
public transportation. Here is a map of public transportation.
It is cold outside. I wish we could give you a coat, but we can
not. Here is a list of charities who can do that. You need help
with case management, we will set up an appointment next week
and come on back and we will help you. That is the way it was
for decades. It is a miracle we housed as many homeless
veterans as we did.
With these flexibilities, the answer is we are going to put
you in a hotel tonight. You do not have to get there yourself.
We are going to use Rideshare to get you straight from here to
that hotel. We are going to get you food tonight. We are going
to get you clothed. Then we are going to give you a phone so
that you can be in touch with your case manager right from that
room and start working on housing.
The stories I heard this week all say the same thing: We
need that. Without that, veterans fall through the cracks, and
that is the critical thing. These flexibilities have filled
those cracks.
Mr. Levin. Really important comments. Thank you so much.
With the time I have left, I will turn to Mr. Garcia. VA is
still in the midst of modernizing all its education IT systems.
I actually think you have come a long way. I remember going
with staff and with Members to Muskogee, Oklahoma, where we saw
about a 40-or 50-year-old IT system out there. Thank you for
the work that you are doing.
I have H.R. 1169 VA E-Notification Enhancement Act, with
Jodey Arrington, continues those efforts by requiring
electronic certificates of eligibility. Your testimony states
the VA is already in process of meeting some of those goals.
When do you expect all the provisions of that bill to be met?
Mr. Garcia. Sir, we believe that through the digital GI
Bill modernization, we are already underway. In August 2022,
original claims now have that ability to receive the electronic
notification or opt out if they choose to. It is part of the
digital GI Bill effort, which is a long-term effort, as you
know. We are looking at the end of 2025 to have all of that
electronic notification done as part of the digital GIB
modernization effort.
Mr. Levin. I appreciate that. I am out of time, Mr.
Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin.
I now recognize Mrs. Ramirez from Illinois for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman Van Orden and Ranking
Member Mike Levin.
I want to first thank you for including my bill, House
Resolution 1767, the Student Veteran Benefit Restoration Act in
today's legislative hearing. As I have been hearing the
conversation, my colleagues know that the work of housing,
education, and health care is extremely important to me. I
certainly believe that when it comes to our veterans, there is
an intersection between stable housing, access to health care,
and being able to get the education necessary to get the career
that they deserve with living wages and retiring with dignity.
I have presented a bill here today to the legislative
hearing. The GI Bill has had a profound impact on veterans
returning to civilian life as well as on the education
community at large. The educational benefits provided by the GI
Bill have been instrumental in helping veterans improve their
economic security and promote their success in postsecondary
education. Those benefits have helped ensure that veterans are
fully supported and integrated.
As I have heard you talk today, particularly about the
budget and housing, I would like to hear a little bit more as
we look at the challenges that we see, particularly around
housing. What do you think in the next year the housing need
could look like for our veterans, especially as we know that
moving from shelter to permanent housing also requires for them
to have stable jobs. This would certainly mean that they, in
some cases, to have that permanent housing, they would be
paying, you know, for a one bedroom, depending on where they
live, $1,500 to other places for a two bedroom, $2,500. Talk to
me a little bit more about the necessity for some of these
supports that you talk about as we look at some of the housing
insecurity over the next year.
Mr. Harris. Yes, thank you. I promise I am going to try to
talk shorter this time. I am using up everyone's time, I
apologize.
It is an incredibly important need that you note. I want to
say again, we have permanent housing resources. The challenge
is, as you noted, getting people into those and the various
supports that that requires. The stories I read this week, the
100-plus examples of the way these Flexibilities helped, showed
how important those are.
It takes a lot to get into housing. That is a long road to
go from the streets to housing, and there are many steps along
that way. They require--you can do virtually none of it without
a phone. You can not do much of it without transportation. You
can not go to the Housing Authority. You can not go to the
Department of Motor Vehicle (DMV) or Social Security office.
You can not go see apartments, attend open houses, meet with
landlords, to get a job. You need a driver's license. You need
the tools that these Flexibilities provide to get those. All
those steps have to happen before we get into housing.
You noted the market. The lack of affordable housing is one
of the single biggest forces we are up against in terms of
ultimately ending veteran homelessness. We are working with HUD
on various ways to improve those processes to potentially
increase fair market rent rates. There is a lot of work
underway, way more than I can speak to right this second. Those
flexibility, without those, and they expire May 11, we will
face a very difficult road unless and until these authorities
are made permanent.
Mrs. Ramirez. Got it. I just want to go back to
specifically the Rideshare component of it. You are saying that
oftentimes when veterans have showed up at the VA for support
services to be able to help relocate to a shelter or
transitional housing, or even to go for these appointments,
they have had to figure out how to get to the place or they
have had to figure out the case management appointment the next
week. You are saying being able to provide that transportation
and being able to do more of that one-stop service makes it
easier for them to navigate and certainly more quickly
stabilize their housing situation?
Mr. Harris. Absolutely. It is the centerpiece of the
examples I received this week. It is at the center of all of
it. It is very difficult to get from point A to point B for any
of us in public transportation.
Mrs. Ramirez. That is right. Well, thank you so much. I
yield back, Chairman.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mrs. Ramirez.
I now recognize Mr. McGarvey from Kentucky for 5 minutes.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to
start off, Mr. Chairman, by echoing your comments and offering
the thoughts and prayers for the soldiers who lost their lives
in the helicopter crash near my home state of Kentucky at Fort
Campbell. The brave men and women of Fort Campbell are
certainly integral to our state and our country and our
security. It is just awful news to wake up this morning and
learn of their passing. I think it also highlights what we need
to do to help the men and women who are willing to put on a
uniform and sacrifice everything to make sure that we are safe.
As I look at some of the bills, we have got some great
bills in front of this committee that really do look out for
our veterans. One of them, H.R. 1699, the VET-TEC Authorization
Act, offered by my colleague, Mr. Ciscomani.
It is a jobs program, not an education program, which means
that we have an expectation that the participants in this
program are going to get a good job when they finish. In fact,
the requirements, the providers who are giving this training to
vets in the technology space, is that they are not paid until
the vets actually get a job. What I want to make sure with you
guys this morning is that that is not providing a perverse
incentive where we want to make sure that our veterans are not
just getting a job, but getting a good job and getting a good
job where they are making a good salary and good benefits. This
is not just a program to get any job, it is to get a quality
job, but that is not specified in the law right now.
Mr. Garcia, would you support requirements for providers
that veterans are hired into jobs with competitive salaries and
other job quality metrics?
Mr. Garcia. Thank you, sir. We are all in agreement that
VET-TEC is successful, right? The metrics that we have now, the
outcome measures show they are hired within about 58 days for
employment, average salary 65,000, so they are good paying
jobs. I think we would continue to support really looking at
meaningful outcomes to make sure they have a good paying job
that also is an area that they want to get into, right, and
that they are studied for.
We have changed our form that tracks that to expand more
data that we can analyze and make sure that we are tracking
good outcome measures for our veterans that use VET-TEC.
Hopefully, that addresses that.
Mr. McGarvey. No, thank you. I appreciate that. You know,
because we are talking about the technology sector, again, like
you said, there is really good things happening. I just want to
make sure that good things continue to happen for our veterans
who are in programs like this.
As you know that VET-TEC is an employment program and it is
susceptible to outside factors just like anything else. We are
seeing news, particularly out of places like Silicon Valley,
about the dip in employment in the tech sector right now. Is
veteran employment in the tech industry shrinking right now?
Are we seeing it shrink with layoffs? What kind of trends are
you all seeing come about in this sector and with this program?
Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir. We are looking at that. Obviously,
the news is the high number of layoffs that are from the larger
companies. What we are looking at, what we are noticing is that
at the smaller companies, the midsized companies, that is not
really an issue right now as what you see in the news. A lot of
the hiring was early on, that peaked and there was maybe a
right-sizing, what you are seeing in terms of getting to that
number. That is not the best answer, but I think there was a
huge increase and then it kind of modified back down, so that
is some of the settling.
There is also concerns because some of the benefit
packages, severance packages, from those high layoffs are like
up to 6 months. We are tracking to make sure that we are
watching those as well that maybe are not really impacted right
away because of a good severance package. We want to make sure
that they are not impacted down the road. Right?
We are looking at the industry as a whole, but, again, it
looks like at the smaller to midsized tech companies, it looks
like it is not as prevalent as what you see in the news with
the high-volume companies.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you. Obviously, that is something we
want to continue to watch. We want this to be successful. We
want our veterans to have good training and get into good
quality jobs. As you all continue to monitor this, we can check
back with you, but certainly want to know how to address this
if we see this becoming a problem and make sure, again, our
veterans are taken care of after they have served us. Thank you
very much.
I yield back my time.
Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. McGarvey.
I would now like to recognize Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick from
Florida for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and
thank you for pronouncing my name correctly. Thank you, Ranking
Member. Thank you also for your testimony and being here today.
I want to start off also recognizing our soldiers who lost
their life. They are definitely in our prayers and our
condolences.
I also want to start off by thanking the deputy general
counsel, Ally Cimino, of the House Veterans' Affairs Committee,
for her dedication to solving veterans' homelessness and ending
food insecurity in our veterans. With her help, these issues
will be a thing of the past. Thank you, Ally.
Dr. Harris, thank you for being here. My bipartisan
legislation, H.R. 645, the Healthy Foundations for Homeless
Veterans Act, would permanently authorize us to fund on basic
needs for homeless veterans such as food, transportation,
communication devices, and shelter. I think we can agree that
these are essential that every person requires to thrive. They
are the foundation of a person's well-being. Since 2021, VA has
helped over 39,000 homeless veterans access basic goods and
services, and provided nearly 42,000 homeless veterans with
over 400,000 rides to medical appointments and job interviews
and through this authority.
Dr. Harris, can you please explain how the VA filled these
needs for homeless veterans prior to the pandemic?
Mr. Harris. Yes, ma'am. My direct gratitude to you for
introducing this bill and second the commendation of Ally as
well.
In short, we were unable to directly provide these things
prior to these flexibilities. We could provide a veteran a
sandwich if he or she had appointments across an entire day. We
could reimburse travel if they lived far enough away. Those are
great for a standard veteran with a car and a job and a stable
life. They do not begin to touch the needs of a homeless
veteran. We were unable to provide for these before.
Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you. Are VA staff and
clinicians seeing that this authority is helping to improve
homeless veterans outcomes in terms of getting and keeping them
stable and housed?
Mr. Harris. Yes. As I noted, I had asked the field for
examples of this, and I wish I had time to share them all. The
veteran with cancer who could not attend chemo appointments
because they were too far away through public transportation,
but we got him there with Rideshare. The suicidal veteran whose
only companion was his dog, whose prospective landlord would
not let him move in, but we were able to cover pet fees and
deposits, and he was able to move in and live stably. The woman
fleeing domestic violence late on a Friday, shelter beds full,
grant and per diem beds full. We were able to put her in a
hotel over the weekend. The veteran whose apartment burned
down. She and her kids were facing separation because they
could not move into a shelter together. We are able to put them
all in a hotel and stay in that hotel stably until they could
move back into a HUD-VASH program.
Countless veterans who could not make medically necessary
lifesaving appointments without transportation, Rideshare gets
them there. We could not do that in the past. Countless
veterans facing eviction if not for assistance we could provide
either through utilities arrears, pest infestations, hoarding
problems.
These are things we could help veterans with. This is what
kept veterans in housing. I could go on way longer than my 5
minutes with those examples. I will stop.
Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick. Well, thank you. My last and
final question, how are the communication devices authorized in
this bill utilized by homeless veterans? Can you discuss the
importance of access to cell phones or laptops for the homeless
veterans?
Mr. Harris. Yes. Thank you. It is incredibly important. We
are aware there is some skepticism about the phones. There is
concerns of kind of worst-case scenarios, veterans selling
these for profit, for money, using them to buy drugs. There are
controls we have built into that process. We think we have done
a good job with that. We think medical center staff and
veterans themselves have done a good job with that.
On the flip side, I would argue there is no more single
important tool for both a homeless veteran, but also for any of
us, than a phone in today's life. How long would any of us
survive in our jobs, in our lives without one? It may feel like
it ought to be easier for somebody on the streets. It is
harder. All those challenges are compounded.
Everything you have to do to move from the streets to
housing requires some degree of communication, access to
information, not the least of which is contact with your VA
providers, but landlords, employers, friends, and family, the
social support network that keeps us sane, that keeps us--
prevents the social isolation that can lead to eviction. The
phones are incredibly important and dollar for dollar are
likely the single best investment we have made under these
authorities.
Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you. This is actually my
final question, even though I said the last one was. How do you
see the expiration of this authority, if we are not able to
make it permanent, affecting our ability to end and prevent
veterans homelessness in short and in long term?
Mr. Harris. It is a really important question. Not stating
an agency position here, but based on my own experience and
based on the feedback in the 100-plus examples I received, I do
not think it is possible to completely, totally end veteran
homelessness without these flexibilities. It is not that we do
not have the permanent housing resources, as I noted earlier.
It is the ability to keep the veterans from falling through the
cracks, who always have in the past, who will begin to again,
despite everyone's best efforts, without these flexibilities.
We need them.
Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you so much for your
testimony.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you.
Mr. Van Orden. Well, thank you, Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick.
Thank you very much, witnesses, for coming. I appreciate it
very much. You are now excused, and I would hope that you would
stay with us for the next panel.
In our second panel, we have several veterans service
organizations. Ms. Tammy Barlet from Student Veterans of
America, Mr. Matthew Brennan from the American Legion, Ms.
Alicia Boddy from Code Platoon and the VET-TEC Working Group,
and Mr. Patrick Murray from Veterans of Foreign Wars.
I would like to welcome the witnesses on our second panel
to the witness table. I ask that you all please stand and raise
your right hand.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you very much. Let the record reflect
that the witnesses have all answered in the affirmative.
I want you all to know that we have read your written
testimony. In the interest of time, we are going to go right
into questions, and I ask for unanimous consent to waive the
taking of this oral testimony to proceed directly to
questioning the witnesses. All right. Without objection, so
ordered.
I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
I just have one question. Mr. Murray from Veterans of
Foreign Wars (VFW), which I am a lifetime member. Oh, there you
are, sir. Where is your cover, Mr. Murray?
Mr. Murray. We do not wear covers during testimony, sir.
Mr. Van Orden. Oh, my gosh. Well, all right. I hope you
have it with you. In your testimony, you indicated support for
the Streamlining Aviation for Eligibility Veterans Act to
provide more flexibility in the Veterans Readiness and
Employment program. Can you elaborate on how this bill would
benefit disabled veterans?
Mr. Murray. Yes, sir. The VR&E program, when utilized
correctly, can be a fantastic, life-changing program. The
nondegree granting part of it is not the most important part in
our minds of VR&E. It is getting them employed. If that leads
to gainful employment in whatever field that might be, we
support that endeavor.
Mr. Van Orden. Well, outstanding. With that, I yield back.
Thank you very much for that.
I now yield to Ranking Member Levin for 5 minutes.
Mr. Levin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Just a couple of questions. I will start with Ms. Barlet. I
want to thank you for your written testimony on the Student
Veteran Benefit Restoration Act. I think you perfectly
explained the problem at hand, that, and I quote, ``While
relief exists for Federal student loan borrowers impacted by
fraud, the same is not true for VA education beneficiaries.''
It is incredibly unfair to GI Bill students, especially given
the sacrifices they have made through their service or that of
their loved one. What kind of message do you think it sends to
veterans and military families that we have this discrepancy?
Ms. Barlet. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin. I appreciate
the question.
The message that the discrepancy currently exists shows
that there is a movement to make sure that these student
veterans and other military-affiliated students are taken care
of. This piece of legislation puts forth that, with the
understanding that VA will also be restored in the support that
they have given that student veteran and other military-
associated student veterans. This is something that needs to be
done and moving in the right direction.
Mr. Levin. Thank you. I appreciate that. Look forward to
working with you and student veterans on this legislation.
Then I will turn to my friend, Mr. Murray. It is always
good to see you, sir.
Chairman Van Orden's legislation to expand job counseling
and Transition Assistance Program (TAP) for states will improve
the TAP process, helping transitioning servicemembers prepare
better to find a job. It is now been more than 4 years since
the last significant changes to the TAP process and I would
like to take the opportunity just to get your views on where we
are with TAP today.
The first question is, have the 2019 National Defense
Authorization Act (NDAA) TAP changes that were made after I
first got elected, have they been effective?
Mr. Murray. Short answer to that yes, there have been great
improvements to the TAP program. Where it came from years ago,
where it is today, it is considerably better. However, it is a
Department of Defense (DOD) managed program and DOD is not
providing proper oversight of it.
We know it is not this committee's job, but we call on all
of Congress to make sure that TAP is being administered
correctly. Specifically, the change that this bill would allow
is for State agencies to be able to contact servicemembers
while they are going through the TAP portion. Roughly,
normally, it is about 6 months out. The law calls for one year
out. We see that DOD is not adhering to those metrics.
This will allow two-way communications. A recent change
that was put in DD Form 2648 allows servicemembers to send
their forms, their relevant documents, to State agencies. Those
State agencies cannot respond back. This will allow for two-way
communication.
However, it is the role of the transition assistance
manager to make connections in the communities to which
servicemembers are transitioning to. We had a hearing last year
and there are a lot of great resources in San Diego, for
example. That is not just sending your DD 214 to the California
State agency. It is reaching out to those groups in the
community that do really substantive work for transition around
the country. That is what we want to see happen. This is a good
step in that right direction.
Mr. Levin. I appreciate that. Any other witnesses have any
ideas or suggestions on further improvements to TAP?
None?
Mr. Murray. A joint hearing between and the House Veterans'
Affairs Committee and the House Armed Services Committee (HASC)
would be fantastic. Make sure that they are adhering to
something where we see about 175-to 200,000 troops getting out
every single year. That should be an evergreen priority of the
Armed Services Committee. We have not seen that since I believe
it was 2018 was the last time there was a TAP hearing on the
Armed Services Committee. It is too long.
Mr. Levin. I could not agree with you more, Mr. Murray, and
I know you and I have talked about this. You know, from my
friend, the chairman, so important that we try to get our
committee together with HASC to do a joint hearing. I know you
all will have plenty of comments at that time. TAP is so, so
important.
Yes, go ahead, Ms. Barlet.
Ms. Barlet. Thank you, Representative Levin.
Something that was mentioned at our joint hearing just a
few months ago was the understanding that when a servicemember
goes from TAP as a veteran, that they are aware of the
professional adjustment that they can perform in their Free
Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) application. There
is an understanding that when they come out and now they are
the veteran and they are filling out the FAFSA, that FAFSA is
not being implemented with their last income tax when they had
a job through the military, but it is being adjusted through
the institution--a conversation through the institution and
that student veteran with the understanding that they have
recently transitioned.
Mr. Levin. Got it. I appreciate that. Thank you all. We
look for your continued input and feedback on improvements to
TAP.
With that, I will yield back to the chairman.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin.
I now recognize Mr. Ciscomani from Arizona for 5 minutes.
Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome to all of you.
Thanks for being here.
In the interest of time, I know we are combining some of
the efforts, so I am going to read a few words here on the VET-
TEC bill, and then I will open up for some quick questions.
Thank you, Chairman Van Orden and fellow members of the
subcommittee. I am grateful that my bill, H.R. 1669, the VET-
TEC Authorization Act, is being considered today. This
bipartisan effort, which I introduced with Chairman Bost and
also Congressman Khanna, would permanently authorize the
Veteran Employment Through Veteran Education Courses, or VET-
TEC program.
As part of the Forever GI Bill that was signed into law in
2017, Speaker McCarthy and Congressman Khanna established the
VET-TEC pilot program which allows eligible veterans to gain
experience and training in high-demand tech jobs. Since the
start of the VET-TEC program in 2019, over 12,000 veterans have
completed the program in areas like computer programming,
software development, data processing, and other in-demand
careers. This is crucial to strengthening our American
workforce.
Of the veterans that completed the program, roughly 64
percent are offered a job relating to the training they
received, with an average salary of around $65,000 a year.
These results show that the program works, and with permanent
authorization, more veterans will be able to participate in the
program each year.
I am proud to have partnered with Chairman Bost and
Congressman Khanna on this legislation, and I look forward to
working with my colleagues to ensure veterans can continue to
grow in the civilian workforce.
Now, Mr. Brennan and all veterans here today, including
those on the subcommittee panel, I want to just thank you all
for your sacrifice, for your service to our country. Mr.
Brennan, thank you for being here, and I sincerely appreciate
the support from the American Legion on permanently authorizing
the VET-TEC program. Can you discuss how your members can--have
benefited actually from the pilot program and the need for some
of the changes to the program that we have highlighted?
Mr. Brennan. Yes, sir. Thank you for your question.
The VET-TEC program, as noted earlier, has been a huge
success for veterans transitioning out of the service into
civilian life. Our members have benefited from it because right
now, as we note, there is a dire need for employment in these
sought-after sectors. We believe that making this program
permanent and ensuring that they go into these jobs that are
well-paying is instrumental to ensuring their successful
transition back into the service.
Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you.
Mr. Brennan. Or out of the service.
Mr. Ciscomani. I know. Thank you so much for that and for
being here. This is a great potential that it has here to be
permanent. We have seen the great success of it so far, and we
are happy to be supporting it as well. Thank you so much.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Ciscomani.
I now recognize Mrs. Ramirez from Arizona for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman.
I want to first thank you all for your written testimonies,
particularly on my legislation that creates some level parity
between Title 4 and Title 38. As you know, the committee has
long wished to restore veterans who have been defrauded or
otherwise left holding the bag for bad actors. The GI Bill has
had a profound impact on veterans as they return to civilian
life. The educational benefits have provided the GI Bill
instrumental service to helping veterans improve their economic
security and promote their success in postsecondary education.
Moreover, these benefits have helped ensure that veterans
are fully supported and integrated into the education
community. Sadly, as we know, there are still some predatory,
often for-profit institutions that see GI Bill educational
benefits and only see a profitable exploit. H.R. 1767, the
Student Veteran Benefit Restoration Act, is essential for the
veteran community and it needs to be prioritized. The bill
ensures that our veterans receive full educational benefits if
a for-profit institution has wrongfully defrauded them.
We are committed to our veterans, and part of that
commitment is ensuring that the GI Bill educational benefit is
honored for our veterans who have more than earned it, and
their families and loved ones. My ranking member, Congressman
Mike Levin from California, has shown his commitment to this
issue for years, and I am honored to have his support as an
original co-sponsor of the bill H.R. 1767. It has also earned
support from key champions for vets, Veteran Education Success
and Student Veterans of America.
I want to come back to your testimony, and I want to ask
you a couple of questions in the time that I do have. This
question is for Ms. Barlet or anyone else could actually answer
as well, but should there be an expectation that schools repay
benefits if they fail to provide a student veteran the class
that they promised them?
Ms. Barlet. Thank you, Representative Ramirez.
It is something that needs to be taken into account. These
are Federal funds that are being used for the veteran or the
military-affiliated student veteran attending these
institutions. When a closure or false career expectations come
from this, and VA and Social Security Administration (SSA)
decide to no longer use that institution for services, it does
need to be taken into account.
Mrs. Ramirez. Why has the VA not already acted to restore
benefits for more students impacted by school closures or in
instances of fraud?
Ms. Barlet. Unfortunately, I am unable to answer that
question for you. Looking at the trend of how Department of
Education established the borrower's defense, it was just a
matter of time for additional agencies to also work within that
same manner.
Mrs. Ramirez. Do you believe using the borrower defense is
a good way to properly capture students who need the GI Bill
restored?
Ms. Barlet. It is one of the tools, but your legislation is
going to lead to additional tools to ensure that they are made
whole.
Mrs. Ramirez. Got it. Thank you. Last question for you. Are
there other triggers that would be appropriate to make sure
that we are restoring these benefits for the veterans?
Ms. Barlet. Other triggers would be, like I mentioned
before, the false career expectations. When a veteran discusses
with the institution's administration and they see that if they
attend there and complete the degree that there is going to be
a job expectation for them coming out of that, that is going to
lead their family into success and security, we want to ensure
that those actors that provide that information are doing well.
Those actors that give false career expectations are under that
scrutiny.
Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you.
Look, just a few more words on my bill, and thank you so
much for the work that you are doing and how, you know, you
have explained how critical this bill is to help restore those
benefits.
It is long past time to give our veteran community the
justice they deserve. We have to ensure that no student veteran
is ever robbed of their educational benefits again by making
sure we are cutting off any predatory schemes. I really look
forward to working with our ranking member, our chairman, and
the entire Veterans' Affairs Committee to ensure that every
student veteran has access to their full educational benefits.
I urge all of my colleagues to join us by cosponsoring, and I
look forward to swiftly moving to a committee markup.
Thank you and I yield back, Chairman.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mrs. Ramirez.
I now recognize Mr. McGarvey from Kentucky for 5 minutes.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate
everybody's testimony today.
I want to talk a little about H.R. 291, which is the
Vaccine Discharge Parity Act, introduced by my colleague, Mr.
Fitzgerald. This bill is going to reinstate GI benefits to
veterans discharged due to refusing the COVID-19 vaccine. It
means these individuals will get access to their benefits,
which I think is a good thing to have veterans being able to
access their benefits.
It is also going to mean they are going to jump the line
over other individuals still waiting for their benefits, such
as those discharged under the Don't Ask, Don't Tell law. I am
for expanding benefits, but let us think about the frustration,
the hurt, the betrayal that a lot of our veterans who were let
go from their service under Don't Ask, Don't Tell have to wait
again to try and access their GI education benefits. Enough is
enough.
Ms. Barlet, could you speak a little bit about the need for
comprehensive reform to eligibility for education benefits and
not just picking here and there who gets them?
Ms. Barlet. Thank you, Representative.
A comprehensive reform would let those veterans understand
that their government is behind them and things that had made
or issues that had made their discharge difficult or less than
honorable is being discussed, things such as underlying mental
health conditions, Military Sexual Trauma (MST), or because of
their sexual orientation while service.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you. I appreciate that.
You know, we started off today talking about a tragedy, a
tragedy for our soldiers down at Fort Campbell, a tragedy that
so many--it is a risk anyone who puts on a uniform takes to
serve us. I think that it is important for us to be there for
those who put on that uniform after they serve because of the
risks they take. I hope this is an area we can get right and
have a comprehensive reform so that the people who have served
have access to the benefits they have earned. I stress that,
that they have earned.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. McGarvey.
Hey, I just want to tell you, man, if there is anything we
can do collectively as a body to assist with the
servicemembers' families from your state of Kentucky, just
please ask. It is exceptionally important that these folks are
recognized. We just got a whole bunch of new Gold Star moms or
dads or husbands and wives, and it is just a bad thing. That is
a real offer.
Then I just ask with the concurrence of the ranking member,
Mr. Levin, if I could ask Ms. Boddy a question. Is that all
right? Good.
You came out here from California, did not you?
Ms. Boddy. Yes, I did, all the way from Los Angeles.
Mr. Van Orden. Yes. Well, thank you very much. You flew
right over what I call America. Hey, right? Sorry, I had to do
it. That is for him.
Thank you for your testimony and for coming out again from
California. I appreciate both of your support of this bill with
VET-TEC and the recommendations on how to make the bill better.
What methods have Code Platoon or the VET-TEC Working Group,
which you are a member of, use to keep in communication with
the veterans after graduation? Could these communication
techniques be improved, in your opinion?
Ms. Boddy. Thank you for the question.
You know, our providers are always looking to improve
communications with our veterans after they graduate and we
look forward to partnering with the VA especially. We think
there is a lot of opportunity there to provide a united front
and say that, you know, the program is not over when you
graduate. The program is really over when you find that
meaningful employment.
Providers have really done a lot over the last 5 years
during this pilot to improve our career services and improve
those outreach efforts. Through the working group especially,
we have seen that partnering with the VA and having all of us
saying the same message to the veterans is really impactful. We
hope that we can really focus on that meaningful employment
piece and leverage our relationship with the VA as providers to
help with that outreach and keep veterans engaged and find
those meaningful employment jobs for them.
Mr. Van Orden. Awesome. If there is any roadblocks that you
run into, please tell us. I just think this is a winning
program and I would like to see it come to fruition
permanently.
I want to thank you all for coming and for your views on
this legislation discussed today. I believe the proposals we
have here today, including VET-TEC, which we just discussed,
Authorization Act of 2023, are incredibly important to ensuring
veterans continue to use the benefits that they have earned. I
look forward to continued working with the stakeholders, that
is all of our vets, and also the ranking member and the rest of
the committee to get these bills to the floor.
With that, I yield to the ranking member, Mr. Levin, for
any concluding remarks he might have.
Mr. Levin. No concluding remarks. I appreciate the
chairman, appreciate all of our witnesses. Thanks for all the
excellent work that you do.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin. Thank you
again for coming to participate in today's hearing.
I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record statements
from the Disabled American Veterans and Veterans Education
Success. Without objection, so ordered.
I ask unanimous consent that all members have 5 legislative
days to revise and extend their remarks and include extraneous
material. Without objection, so ordered.
This hearing stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 10:36 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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A P P E N D I X
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Prepared Statement of Witnesses
----------
Prepared Statement of Joseph Garcia
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and other Members of the
Subcommittee, thank you for inviting us here today to present our views
on several bills that would affect VA programs and services. Joining me
today are Dr. Keith Harris, Senior Executive Homelessness Agent,
Greater Los Angeles, Office of the Secretary Veterans Health
Administration (VHA), and Nick Pamperin, Executive Director, Veteran
Readiness and Employment Service (VBA).
H.R. 291 ``Vaccine Discharge Parity Act''
Sections 2(a) and (b) of this bill would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. Sec.
3011(a)(3)(B) and 3311(c) to include a general discharge under
honorable conditions on the sole basis that the individual failed to
obey a lawful order to receive a vaccine for COVID-19, as a qualifying
discharge for entitlement to educational assistance under the
Montgomery GI Bill-Active Duty (MGIB-AD) program and the Post-9/11 GI
Bill. Section 2(c) of the bill would adjust home loan fees to help
offset the costs of the bill. Specifically, this section would amend 38
U.S.C. Sec. 3729(b) to replace ``January 14, 2031'' with ``March 1,
2031'' in each place it appears in the loan fee table in section
3729(b)(2).
VA opposes this bill. Currently, an individual who serves in the
Armed Forces must receive an honorable discharge to establish
eligibility for educational assistance under the MGIB-AD and Post-9/11
GI Bill. VA is concerned that enactment of this bill would create an
inequity for Service members discharged for various reasons and not
meeting the ``honorable discharge'' requirement for eligibility for
educational assistance. Only Service members with the COVID-19
character of discharge ``reason'' would be eligible to receive
educational assistance, while Service members with the same character
of discharge but different reason would not be eligible for educational
assistance.
VA also has concerns regarding the availability of Department of
Defense (DoD) data elements corresponding with information technology
systems and claims processing rules to facilitate the data exchange
needed for automated claims processing. Additional funding would be
required for Veterans Benefits Administration and DoD interfaces and
Digital GI Bill (DGIB) automation planning and delivery. For example,
the VA and DoD Identity Repository (VADIR) would require additional
indicators to reflect that the reason for a particular discharge was
due to refusal to take a vaccine, given the current Interface Control
Document (DGIB-VADIR) includes no specifications for a particular
discharge being due to refusal to take a vaccine. Without additional
development resources to make these and other required changes, fewer
claims could be accomplished using automation. The new rules would also
need to be programmed into the Benefits Delivery Network and the Post-
9/11 GI Bill Long Term Solution to calculate eligibility for this small
population of individuals.
VA opposes section 2(c) of the bill. This section would adjust home
loan fees with the purpose of helping to offset the costs of the bill.
Loan fees are collected to reduce the taxpayer cost of VA's loan
guaranty program. As such, VA does not support using the fees as an
offset for the costs of another benefit program. Additionally, VA notes
that home loan fees that are required under 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3729(b)(2)
are scheduled to expire on November 14, 2031, not January 14, 2031. See
the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2023, P. L. 117-328, Division U,
Sec. 204. Therefore, this section of the bill as drafted would fail to
accomplish the purpose of extending the period in which home loan fees
are collected by VA.
H.R. 645 ``Healthy Foundations for Homeless Veterans Act''
H.R. 645 would add a new section 2068 to title 38, U.S. Code, to
allow VA to use amounts appropriated or otherwise made available to
carry out sections 2011, 2012, 2031, or 2061 to provide certain
assistance to homeless Veterans and Veterans participating in the
Department of Housing and Urban Development-VA Supportive Housing (HUD-
VASH) program. The assistance authorized under proposed section 2068(a)
would include assistance needed for the safety and survival of the
Veteran (such as food, shelter, clothing, blankets, and hygiene items),
transportation needed to support the stability and health of the
Veteran (such as transportation for appointments with service
providers, the conduct of housing searches and the obtainment of food
and supplies), communications equipment and services (such as tablets,
smartphones, disposable phones, and related service plans) needed to
support the stability and health of the Veteran (such as through the
maintenance of contact with service providers, prospective landlords,
and family members), and such other assistance as VA determines
necessary.
Proposed section 2068(b) would authorize VA to collaborate, to the
extent practicable, with one or more organizations to manage the use of
VA land for homeless Veterans for living and sleeping. This
collaboration could include the provision, by either VA or the head of
the organization concerned, of food services and security of property,
buildings, and other facilities owned or controlled by VA.
VA strongly supports this bill, as it is consistent with an
Administration proposal included in the FY 2024 Budget (``Flexibility
in the Provision of Assistance to Homeless Veterans''). The bill would
effectively replicate the authority granted under section 4201 of P.L.
116-315 but would remove the limitation related to the period of the
covered public health emergency.
Before the authority in section 4201 of P.L. 116-315 was
established, VA could not use funds to provide these services or
support and had to rely on donations or community organizations, which
were not always readily available, to fill the service gaps. VA
providers need the continued flexibility and access to critical
resources provided by this authority to carry out the mission of making
Veteran homelessness rare, brief, and non-reoccurring. In recent years,
VA providers have excelled at reducing Veteran homelessness; however,
the Veterans who remain unsheltered often present with complex needs
and face unprecedented barriers, such as high cost of food, increased
housing costs, and lack of public transportation or access to
information. To complete the mission of ending Veteran homelessness, VA
needs to be able to provide all available resources.
Furthermore, use of Department land allows for the flexibility to
use designated areas on VA medical center campuses to offer temporary
housing, food, access to health care, case management, peer support,
and a clean environment to vulnerable unsheltered Veterans experiencing
homelessness. This is needed to address the continuing high number of
unsheltered homeless Veterans nationally, and the need for low-barrier
safe-haven settings that can provide immediate access to shelter and
services for Veterans 24 hours per day, 7 days per week.
Most importantly, the barriers that this bill would address existed
before the COVID-19 public health emergency and will persist after the
emergency declaration has ended, increasing risks to Veterans' safety,
survival and well-being, and negatively impacting living conditions. We
do note, as a technical matter, that the bill should establish a new
section 2069 in title 38, as there currently is a section 2068
(regarding mental health consultations), which was added by section
404(b) of the STRONG Veterans Act (Div. V of P.L. 117-328).
The total estimated cost is $20.52 million for FY 2024, $21.36
million for FY 2025, approximately $111.47 million over a 5-year
period, and the cost over a 10-year period is approximately $243.42
million. This estimated cost is based on FY 2022 expenditures.
H.R. 728 Pilot Program on Short-Term Fellowship Programs
This bill would authorize the Assistant Secretary of Labor for
Veterans' Employment and Training to carry out a pilot program under
which a State may use a grant or contract under 38 U.S.C. Sec.
4102A(b)(5) (the Jobs for Veterans State Grants Program) to carry out a
pilot program on short-term fellowship programs. Each program would
consist of Veterans participating as fellows with an employer for a
period not exceeding 20 weeks, pay such Veterans a monthly stipend, and
provide such Veterans an opportunity to be employed on a long-term
basis with the employer following such period.
VA defers to the Department of Labor regarding this bill.
H.R. XXX Education Fraud
Section 1(a) of this bill would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3699(b)(1) by
adding a new subparagraph that would allow VA to restore educational
assistance entitlement under 38 U.S.C. chapter 30, 31, 32, 33, or 35 or
10 U.S.C. chapter 1606 or 1607, if an individual was unable to complete
a course or program as a result of the suspension or termination of a
course or program of education by reason of a determination of fraud by
the Commissioner of the Federal Trade Commission or the Secretary of
Education.
Section 1(b) of the bill would further amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3699
by adding a new subsection (f) that would require the educational
institution to repay the Secretary of Veterans Affairs all amounts of
educational assistance received pursuant to the educational assistance
programs administered by VA during the period when the fraud was
determined to have occurred, if the educational institution closes or
suspends or terminates a course or program of education by reason of a
determination of fraud by the Commissioner of the Federal Trade
Commission or the Secretary of Education.
VA would support this bill, if amended. Since students may be
accomplices to the fraud in certain instances, VA recommends that
section 1(a) of the bill include language to specify that students who
participate in the fraud are not eligible for restored entitlement
under this section. VA also recommends that this bill be amended to
include findings of substantial misrepresentation made by VA or a State
Approving Agency.
No discretionary costs are associated with this bill. Additional
time is needed to determine if the bill has significant mandatory
costs.
H.R. XXX Sole Liability for Transferred Educational Assistance
This bill would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3319(i), regarding liability
for overpayments in cases of transferred entitlement, to remove joint
liability for certain overpayments. Specifically, this bill would
require VA to hold the individual who transfers unused education
benefits to a dependent solely liable for any overpayment of
educational assistance under the Post-9/11 GI Bill when the individual
fails to complete his or her service agreement.
VA would support this bill, if amended. However, if it is the
intent of Congress to eliminate liability for dependents who share no
fault in the overpayment, VA recommends that the bill be amended to
also address tuition and fee overpayments that are collected against
schools, as these will likely be passed on to students. Debts resulting
from reductions and termination of benefits are currently split between
the student and the school. The student is liable for the monthly
housing allowance, books and supplies, and kicker benefits, while the
school is responsible for tuition and fees.
Section 1019 of the Johnny Isakson and David P. Roe, M.D. Veterans
Health Care and Benefits Improvement Act of 2020 (Public Law 116-315),
which revised 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3685(b), requires schools to be
financially responsible for all tuition and fee debts paid under the
Post-9/11 GI Bill. However, schools may seek reimbursement of tuition
and fee debts from students independent of the protection covered in
this bill. Therefore, VA recommends that the bill be amended to
explicitly state that payment of tuition and fees that result in an
overpayment under 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3319(i)(2)(A) would not constitute a
liability against the school or dependent in accordance with 38 U.S.C.
Sec. 3685. This amendment would ensure that these debts are not passed
on to the student by the school.
We note that the proposed amendment to section 3319(i)(2)(A) is
unclear because it would refer to the amount of any transferred
entitlement that is used by a dependent ``as an overpayment of
educational assistance under paragraph (1)'' (which provides for joint
and several liability) ``for which the individual [transferring
entitlement] shall be solely liable'' (emphasis added). Congress may
want to consider removing the ``under paragraph (1)'' language in
section 3319(i)(2)(A) to clarify its intent.
No mandatory or discretionary costs or savings are associated with
this proposed legislation.
H.R. XXX Electronic Certificates of Eligibility
This bill would amend 38 U.S.C. chapter 36 by adding new section
3698A, which would require VA to provide certificates of eligibility
and award letters using electronic means to an individual entitled to
educational assistance under 38 U.S.C. chapter 30, 33, or 35; the
Veteran Employment through Technology Education Courses (VET TEC) pilot
program; or any other provision of law administered by VA that is
determined appropriate. The individual may elect to receive the
documents by mail rather than through electronic means or revoke an
election at any time, by means prescribed by VA.
VA supports this bill, as it is consistent with current practices.
This bill would give all VA education beneficiaries access to their
eligibility and entitlement information in an electronic format. We
note that 38 U.S.C. Sec. 5104(c), as amended by the Honoring Our PACT
ACT of 2022, Public Law 117-168, Sec. 807, currently permits VA to
provide notice of its decisions electronically if a claimant (or the
claimant's representative) elects to receive such notice
electronically.
No mandatory or discretionary costs are associated with this bill,
as VA currently provides certificates of eligibility and award letters
by electronic means.
H.R. XXX Increase in Educational Assistance for Programs of Education
in the Philippines
This bill would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3532 to remove the
requirement for VA to compute the educational assistance allowance for
an eligible person at an institution located in the Republic of the
Philippines at the rate of $0.50 for each dollar.
VA supports this bill. This bill would provide increased funding
for certain individuals pursuing a program of education in the Republic
of the Philippines.
Mandatory costs associated with this bill are $598,000 in FY 2023,
$11.7 million over 5 years, and $25.5 million over 10 years. No
discretionary costs to VBA's General Operating Expenses account are
associated with this bill. IT costs are estimated to be $3.2 million in
FY 2026.
H.R. XXX ``Get Rewarding Outdoor Work for Our Veterans Act'' (or the
``GROW Act'')
This bill would direct the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to submit
to Congress a report on the Warrior Training Advancement Course
(WARTAC) and direct the Secretary of the Interior to administer a pilot
program to employ Veterans in positions that relate to conservation and
resource management activities of the Department of the Interior (DOI).
Section 2 of the bill would direct the Secretary of Veterans
Affairs to submit to Congress an initial report on WARTAC no later than
6 months after the date of enactment and submit a report one year after
submission of the initial report, and annually thereafter, that
includes information on best TAP practices of WARTAC, cost savings of
WARTAC and hiring covered members who complete WARTAC.
VA cites concerns with Section 2 of this bill. While VA can provide
some of the information requested in the reporting requirement in
section 2, development of such a report would be time-consuming and
costly for VA and would divert resources from other important work.
Annually, the total number of WARTAC participants is generally fewer
than 400 Veterans. Congressionally Mandated Reports (CMR) go through a
rigorous concurrence process and consume valuable VA resources. VA
strives to be a good steward of taxpayer dollars, and the amount of
time, money, and staff involvement that would go into drafting and
reviewing these reports could be better spent on other important
projects helping Veterans. VA submitted 24 CMRs in fiscal year 2022 and
VA's cost estimates for all CMRs submitted in fiscal year 2022 totaled
approximately $661,228.
VA welcomes the opportunity to collaborate with its Congressional
partners through quarterly briefings in lieu of a mandated report.
Transparency is important to VA, and VA could provide updates on the
current state and future state of the WARTAC program at any time or on
a recurring basis as requested. As WARTAC is an authorized DoD
Skillbridge program that falls under the authority of DoD Instruction
1322.29, Job Training, Employment Skills Training, Apprenticeships, and
Internships for Eligible Service Members, VA would defer reporting on
the majority of the elements required under section 2(b) to DoD.
Section 3 would direct the Secretary of the Interior to administer
a pilot program to employ Veterans in positions that relate to
conservation and resource management activities at DOI.
VA defers to DOI regarding section 3. VA can serve as an active
partner to DOI and help Veterans connect to the pilot through already-
established VA programs such as Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E)
services, the Personalized Career Planning and Guidance Program, and
Skillbridge.
H.R. XXX ``Streamlining Aviation for Eligible Veterans Act'' (or the
``SAFE Veterans Act'')
This bill would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3101 by adding a statement
that a rehabilitation program may include flight training that does not
lead to a degree.
VA opposes this bill. In accordance with 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3100, the
purpose of the VR&E program is to provide all services and assistance
necessary to enable Veterans with service-connected disabilities to
achieve maximum independence in daily living and, to the maximum extent
feasible, to become employable and to obtain and maintain suitable
employment. Currently, under chapter 31, a VR&E participant may enroll
in flight training as part of a degree program within the individual's
rehabilitation plan, allowing for the Veteran to be trained in the
field of aviation or a related field. The flight training should lead
to a degree, certification, or license that enables the Veteran to seek
and obtain suitable employment. Should the Veteran's disabilities
change or worsen, possessing a degree allows the Veteran other
opportunities to obtain and maintain employment. A rehabilitation
program that includes flight training but does not lead to a degree
would be inconsistent with VR&E's requirements for its training
programs.
H.R. XXX TAP Outreach
This bill would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. Sec. 4101 and 4103A (the Jobs
for Veterans State Grants Program) to add members of the Armed Forces
eligible for the Transition Assistance Program (under sections 1142 and
1144 of title 10) as persons eligible to receive priority in the
Department of Labor's intensive services and placement service program
conducted by Disabled Veterans' Outreach Program specialists.
VA defers to the Department of Labor regarding this bill.
H.R. XXX ``VET-TEC Authorization Act of 2023''
Section 2(a) of this bill would add new 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3699C to
permanently authorize VA to carry out a program under which the
Secretary provides covered individuals with the opportunity to enroll
in high-technology programs of education that the Secretary determines
provide training or skills sought by employers in a relevant field or
industry. A ``covered individual'' is a Veteran whom the Secretary
determines served an aggregate of at least 36 months on active duty and
was discharged or released under conditions other than dishonorable and
who has not attained the age of 62 before beginning a high-technology
program of education, and a member of the Armed Forces whom the
Secretary determines will become a Veteran fewer than 180 days after
the date of such determination.
This bill would allow not more than 8,000 covered individuals to
participate in the program in any fiscal year. Covered individuals who
pursue a high-technology program of education under section 3699C would
receive educational assistance in amounts equal to the 100 percent
benefit level under the Post-9/11 GI Bill (chapter 33), including the
housing stipend and in accordance with the treatment of programs that
are distance learning and programs that are less than half-time. VA
would be authorized to pay educational assistance to covered
individuals for a high-technology program of education and a second
such program if the second program begins at least 18 months after the
covered individual graduates from the first such program, and if
chapter 33 is used for pursuit of the second such program. Covered
individuals with remaining entitlement to educational assistance under
chapter 30, 32, 33, 34, or 35 would be charged at the rate of one month
of such remaining entitlement for each such month of educational
assistance under this program. Individuals receiving benefits under
this program would not be subject to the 48-month entitlement
limitation applicable to other VA educational programs.
If a covered individual withdraws from a high-technology program of
education, paid for with educational assistance under section 3699C,
after receiving orders to enter a period of covered service, the
Secretary would have to provide educational assistance to the covered
individual for another such program.
Under this bill, VA would be authorized to enter into contracts
with qualified providers of high-technology programs and would be
required to provide the conditions under which VA may terminate the
contract with the provider and the procedures for providing for the
graduation of students who were enrolled in a program provided by such
provider in the case of such a termination. Such a contract would
authorize VA to pay as follows.
25 percent of the cost of tuition and other fees upon
enrollment of a covered individual;
25 percent upon graduation of the individual from the
program; and
50 percent of such cost upon--
The completion of 180 days of full-time employment by
the covered individual----
In the field of study of the program; and
If the employment was secured not later than
180 days following graduation of the covered individual
from the program.
The employment of the individual by the provider for
a period of one year; or
The enrollment of the individual in a different
program of education to continue education in the field of
study of such high-technology program of education provided by
a different provider.
This bill would maintain the current rule that a provider of a
high-technology program of education is qualified if the provider
employs instructors whom VA determines are experts in their respective
fields, the provider has successfully provided the high-technology
program for at least one year, and the provider meets the approval
criteria developed by VA. However, this bill would add two additional
qualifications, requiring that a provider identify professions in need
of new employees to hire, tailor the program to meet market needs, and
identify employers likely to hire graduates; and that a provider not
charge tuition and fees to a covered individual who receives assistance
under section 3699C to pursue such program that are higher than the
tuition and fees charged by such provider to another individual. VA
would also be required to give preference to a provider of a high-
technology program from which at least 70 percent of graduates each
year find full-time employment in the field of study of the program
within 180 days after graduating from the program or that refunds
tuition and fees for a student who graduates from such a program and
does not find employment.
Finally, this bill would require VA to submit a report to Congress
no later than one year after the date of enactment of this bill and
annually thereafter on the operation of the program under section
3699C.
This bill would take effect 180 days after the date of enactment
and would amend section 116(h) of the Harry W. Colmery Veterans
Educational Assistance Act of 2017, Public Law 115-48, to provide that
the authority to carry out a pilot program under that section will
terminate on the date that is 1 year after the date of the enactment of
section 3699C.
VA would support this bill with amendments and with an identified
funding offset. First, the bill would authorize only 8,000 covered
individuals to participate in the program during a fiscal year. These
individuals could carry over into the next fiscal year and thus limit
the number of individuals who could participate in the program. VA does
not understand the purpose for limiting the number of individuals who
could pursue this program given the fact that this program would be
permanent and there are no participant limits for other permanent VA
education programs. This would require VA to create very complex rules
for its Information Technology systems, which could be costly and
require more time to implement.
Second, this bill would mandate that VA charge one month of
entitlement for covered individuals who have remaining entitlement
under chapter 30, 32, 33, 34, or 35 for every month of entitlement used
under this high-technology program. This provision would be inequitable
as it would allow some beneficiaries who have already used all their VA
educational benefits to receive more entitlement, while others would
lose out on their remaining entitlement under other VA educational
programs. Additionally, this bill would state that the 48-month
entitlement limitation would not apply to this high-technology program.
However, since other VA educational programs are subject to the 48-
month entitlement limitation, and this bill would require remaining
entitlement to be deducted from those programs, in actuality some
people would be limited to the 48 months, while others would not.
Furthermore, this provision would be very problematic for VA to carry
out because some individuals may have remaining entitlement under
multiple benefits; therefore, VA would have to determine a process for
beneficiaries to choose from which benefit to deduct entitlement, which
could delay claims processing.
This bill would be effective 180 days after the date of enactment,
while the pilot program would end one year after the enactment of this
bill. This would cause overlap of the pilot and permanent students and
providers. This could cause complications with the transition of this
program and be very confusing for beneficiaries. Also, the effective
date of only 180 days from the date of enactment would not provide
enough time to implement all the new provisions.
Finally, as stated above, in lieu of CMRs, VA recommends and
welcomes the opportunity to collaborate with its Congressional partners
through quarterly briefings (or briefings as requested). CMRs go
through a rigorous concurrence process and consume valuable VA
resources. VA strives to be a good steward of taxpayer dollars and the
amount of time, money, and staff involvement that go into drafting and
reviewing mandated reports could be better spent on other important
projects helping Veterans. VA's cost estimates for all CMRs submitted
in fiscal year 2022 total approximately $661,228. Transparency is
important to VA, and VA would provide updates on the current and future
State of the VET TEC program at any time or on a recurring basis as
requested.
Significant mandatory and discretionary costs are associated with
this bill. VA needs additional time to prepare its cost estimate.
Conclusion
This concludes my statement. We would be happy to answer any
questions you or other members of the Subcommittee may have.
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Prepared Statement of Tammy Barlet
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Prepared Statement of Matthew Brennan
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Prepared Statement of Alicia Boddy
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Prepared Statement of Patrick Murray
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and members of the
subcommittee, on behalf of the men and women of the Veterans of Foreign
Wars of the United States (VFW) and its Auxiliary, thank you for the
opportunity to provide our remarks on legislation pending before this
subcommittee.
H.R. 291, Vaccine Discharge Parity Act
The VFW opposes this bill. Service members who were separated for
refusing to obey a lawful order should be held to the same standard as
other service members who committed similar violations. The maximum
punishment for violating Article 92--violation of or failure to obey a
lawful general order or regulation--is dishonorable discharge,
forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for two years.
Lesser offenses have lesser penalties such as receiving a general
discharge under honorable conditions.
Additionally, this bill claims to seek parity for service members
who received a general discharge under honorable conditions by making
them eligible for the Post-9/11 GI Bill. The VFW believes this is an
unnecessary proposal. All veterans in this category of discharge,
regardless of why they received it, are not eligible for GI Bill
benefits. Since these veterans have the same eligibility for education
benefits as every other veteran with a general discharge under
honorable conditions, parity already exists. We believe any substantive
discussion surrounding changes to the discharge conditions eligible for
educational assistance must be done broadly and without special
treatment, specifically for those failing to obey a lawful order.
H.R. 645, Healthy Foundations for Homeless Veterans Act
The VFW supports this proposal to permanently authorize the use of
certain funds to improve flexibility in the provision of assistance to
homeless veterans. Combating veteran homelessness is more than just
simply providing a roof over a person's head, and oftentimes is
accompanied by other financial struggles. This proposal would allow for
more flexibility in assisting veterans struggling to acquire food,
clothing, hygiene materials, and other items needed for daily life.
This holistic effort would hopefully provide additional help for
veterans struggling with housing security.
The VFW also believes financial literacy training is important to
assist veterans seeking supportive services for housing through the
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA). Too many veterans face housing
instability because they are not as financially literate as they could
be. We recommend that VA establishes a basic financial literacy tool
and ensures every veteran who utilizes supportive services also
completes a financial literacy course and undergoes credit counseling.
This simple, educational tool can mitigate future dilemmas and the
recurrent need for supportive programs.
H.R. 728, To direct the Assistant Secretary of Labor for Veterans'
Employment and Training to carry out a pilot program on short-term
fellowship programs for veterans
The VFW supports this proposal that would create a pilot program to
offer short-term fellowships for veterans at nonprofit organizations.
This initiative would provide opportunities for veterans to receive
valuable training and experience at organizations that further a social
cause or provide a public benefit. Furthermore, it would create public
service employment opportunities for veterans.
H.R. 746, Streamlining Aviation for Eligible (SAFE) Veterans Act
The VFW supports this proposal to provide parity for students
seeking flight training at certain institutions through the Veteran
Readiness and Employment (VR&E) program. Recent changes allowed student
veterans utilizing the GI Bill to attend flight training through
educational programs that do not provide a degree. This proposal would
allow the same permissions for veterans utilizing Chapter 31 VR&E to
pursue flight training at similar institutions.
H.R. 1169, VA E-Notification Enhancement Act
The VFW has for years supported the proposal to make certificates
of eligibility electronic. The option of having certificates available
digitally is long past due. If VA's information technology systems
cannot make this option a reality, then proper funding for a simple
solution should be requested, authorized, and appropriated to make this
commonsense fix for a 20th century problem. Certificates of eligibility
for programs all across VA are constantly requested by outside
entities, so an electronic solution is needed. There are certain VA
forms that can be accessed through eBenefits, but then those forms must
be sent to various parties. Veterans should be able to log in and see
all the benefits and programs to which they are entitled, not just
disability compensation eligibility.
Discussion Draft, To amend title 38, United States Code, to provide
that educational assistance paid under Department of Veterans Affairs
educational assistance programs to an individual who pursued a program
or course of education that was suspended or terminated for certain
reasons shall not be charged against the entitlement of the individual,
and for other purposes
The VFW supports this proposal to ensure veterans who attend
schools that have accreditation suspended or terminated do not suffer
further fallout such as losing months or years of GI Bill entitlement
through no fault of their own. In the past few years, some large
schools closed their doors because of poor governance or financial
mismanagement. The student veterans who were attending those schools
were often unexpectedly forced to find new education options quickly.
Far too many of those student veterans were unable to transfer any or
all of their credits to other schools, wasting months of work. This
proposal would ensure those student veterans could restart their
education paths with their GI Bill entitlement restored.
Discussion Draft, To amend title 38, United States Code, to render an
individual, who transfers certain educational assistance, to which the
individual is entitled because of an agreement by such individual to
serve in the Armed Forces, to a dependent of that individual, and who
fails to complete such agreement, solely liable for the overpayment of
such educational assistance, and for other purposes
The VFW supports this proposal to remove the financial burden for
certain beneficiaries of educational assistance. GI Bill
transferability often seems like a straightforward option for service
members, but occasionally a recipient of this remarkable benefit gets
involved in unintended bureaucracy. The VFW agrees that the transferred
recipient of the GI Bill should not be held financially liable if the
original service member fails to fulfill his or her service obligation.
Once discovered, the use of the benefit should cease, but the dependent
should not be held accountable for repayment, as they were not the
party who failed to complete an obligation.
Discussion Draft, Filipino Education Fairness Act
The VFW has a resolution and supports this bill to provide parity
for beneficiaries of the Survivors' and Dependents' Educational
Assistance program (Chapter 35) at institutions in the Philippines. We
believe VA beneficiaries should have parity in as many cases as
practical. Specifically, Chapter 35 recipients utilizing this benefit
in the Philippines are provided only fifty percent of the rate compared
to beneficiaries in the United States. This is not even equitable with
other beneficiaries who utilize this program outside the continental
United States. Recipients in other countries around the world receive
the same benefit as everyone else. The inequitable delivery of this
benefit to recipients in the Philippines should be corrected.
Discussion Draft, Get Rewarding Outdoor Work (GROW) for our Veterans
Act
The VFW supports this proposal that would require VA to report
metrics of outcomes for the Warrior Training Advancement Course
(WARTAC) and form recommendations for potential expansion to additional
federal agencies. The VFW believes a proper and well-rounded transition
from the military is one of the most important things our service
members need in order to ease back into our society with minimal
hardships.
The DOD SkillBridge program is a highly valuable yet sorely
underutilized and underpromoted program within the transition process.
Oversight and reporting of WARTAC outcomes may provide key insights to
inform recommendations for improvements to DOD SkillBridge, and may
also provide information for recommendations on expansion to other
federal agencies.
Discussion Draft, To amend title 38, United States Code, to expand
eligibility for a certain program of job counseling, training, and
placement service for veterans
The VFW supports this proposal because we believe one of the most
important aspects of a positive transition from active duty service to
civilian life is the connection to the community to which the service
member will relocate. By law, it is the role of the pre-separation
counselor to make that connection to community resources, but we know
that is not happening. This is a failure of the Department of Defense
(DOD) to properly oversee the Transition Assistance Program (TAP).
While we know it is not the role of this committee to ensure TAP is
properly administered, we urge Congress as a whole to make sure it is
being done.
Recently, DOD amended the DD form 2648 to allow for service members
to send their relevant information to State veteran agencies. However,
there is no pathway for these agencies to communicate with these
separating service members until they leave active duty. This proposal
would hopefully ease the burden of transition by allowing for
information sharing and two-way communication between the respective
agencies and the service members. We still believe the responsibility
lies with the pre-separation counselors to connect the service members
with the appropriate resources in the communities to which they are
transitioning, but this proposal would be beneficial.
Discussion Draft, VET TEC Authorization Act of 2023
The VFW supports this legislation that would make permanent the
Veterans Employment Through Technology Education Courses (VET TEC)
pilot program. VET TEC is an incredibly popular program that permits
eligible veterans to receive valuable training in computer software and
programming, data processing, information science, and media
applications. Indeed, the program is so popular that all available
seats for 2021 were filled within one month of the application opening
for the new year. During the last Congress, additional resources were
provided to the VET TEC program to allow more veterans to utilize this
program.
Chairman Van Orden, this concludes my testimony. Again, the VFW
thanks you and Ranking Member Levin for the opportunity to testify on
these important issues before this subcommittee. I am prepared to take
any questions you or the subcommittee members may have.
Information Required by Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives
Pursuant to Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives, the VFW
has not received any federal grants in Fiscal Year 2023, nor has it
received any federal grants in the two previous Fiscal Years.
The VFW has not received payments or contracts from any foreign
governments in the current year or preceding two calendar years.
Statement for the Record
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Prepared Statement of Disabled American Veterans
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin and Members of the
Subcommittee:
DAV (Disabled American Veterans) has a mission that includes the
principle that this Nation's first duty to veterans is the
rehabilitation and welfare of its wartime disabled. This principle
envisions vocational rehabilitation and/or education to assist these
veterans to prepare for and obtain gainful employment, enhanced
opportunities for employment, job placement and self-employment, so
that the full array of talents and abilities of disabled veterans are
used productively and to their greatest levels.
We are a resolution-based organization, which means we can support
legislation if we have a resolution that is adopted by our membership
body at our annual national convention. We are providing our views on
the bills impacting service-disabled veterans, their families and the
programs administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) that
are under consideration by the Subcommittee. Based on our resolutions,
this statement highlights the bills that DAV supports.
H.R. 645, the Healthy Foundations for Homeless Veterans Act
The Healthy Foundations for Homeless Veterans Act would make
permanent the temporary flexibilities granted to VA to address
veterans' homelessness by providing shelter, transportation, and
communication devices to veterans in need. Specifically, H.R. 645 would
grant the VA the authority to use funds to provide homeless veterans
and at-risk veterans with:
Assistance required for the safety and survival of the
veteran, such as food, shelter, clothing, blankets and hygiene items;
Transportation required to support the stability and
health of the veteran, such as transportation for appointments with
service providers, the handling of housing searches and the obtainment
of food and supplies; and
Communications equipment and services, such as tablets,
smartphones, disposable phones, and related service plans) required to
support the stability and health of the veteran (such as through the
maintenance of contact with service providers, prospective landlords,
and family members).
Additionally, the Healthy Foundations for Homeless Veterans Act
would allow the VA to collaborate with organizations to manage the use
of VA land for homeless veterans, specifically for living and sleeping.
In 2022, the VA housed over 40,000 homeless veterans surpassing its
goal of 38,000. Much of this was accomplished by the authorities
Congress put in place during the COVID-19 pandemic. We must continue
using these authorities to ensure that our Nation's veterans have the
basic necessities.
It is estimated that H.R. 645, the Healthy Foundations for Homeless
Veterans Act, would positively impact housing for an estimated 33,000
veterans experiencing homelessness or those who are at-risk of
homelessness. DAV proudly supports this effort in accord with DAV
Resolution No. 060, which calls on Congress to fund the Supportive
Services for Veterans Families program to ensure prevention of
homelessness among veterans and their families.
H.R. 728, to Direct the Assistant Secretary of Labor for Veterans'
Employment and Training to carry out a pilot program on short-term
programs for veterans
H.R. 728 would require the Veterans' Employment and Training
Service within the Department of Labor to implement a pilot program
under which it may use grants or contracts to carry out a short-term
fellowship program. This would allow up to five states to participate
in the program and be in a contract with a non-profit organization.
Each fellowship program must run for 20 weeks, provide a monthly
stipend, and provide veterans an opportunity to be employed on a long-
term basis following the fellowship. For fiscal years 2023 through
2027, $10 million has been appropriated to carry out the program.
These fellowship programs would help to reduce the number of
unemployed veterans in this country and would greatly assist service-
disabled veterans with obtaining meaningful employment. In accordance
with DAV Resolution 187, DAV supports H.R. 728.
H.R. 746, the Streamlining Aviation for Eligible Veterans Act
The Streamlining Aviation for Eligible (SAFE) Veterans Act would
amend the VA program, Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E) (formerly
known as the Vocational Rehabilitation and Employment Program). VR&E
provides comprehensive services to include vocational assessment,
rehabilitation planning and employment services.
H.R. 746 would provide, ``[a] rehabilitation program may include a
program that includes flight training and does not lead to a degree.''
Many disabled veterans want to pursue flight raining via VR&E; however,
they have been faced with the fact that flight training would not lead
to a degree. The SAFE Veterans Act would remove that barrier. DAV
supports the SAFE Veterans Act in accord with DAV Resolution No. 187.
H.R. 1169, the VA E-Notification Enhancement Act
This legislation would allow VA to send certificates of eligibility
and award letters to veterans for authorized educational assistance via
email or other electronic means. The veteran has the option to opt out
of receiving notifications via electronic means and have their notices
come by mail. The veteran can revoke this election at any time.
This would be a better way of informing veterans that they are
eligible for educational benefits or advising them of their monthly
benefits while enrolled in school.
In accordance with DAV Resolution 095, DAV supports H.R. 1169, the
VA E-Notification Enhancement Act, as it would provide veterans with
timely information to help them make more informed decisions about
their educational goals.
H.R. 1669, the VET-TEC Authorization Act of 2023
On August 16, 2017, the Harry W. Colmery Veterans Educational
Assistance Act of 2017 (commonly known as the ``Forever GI Bill'') was
signed into law. The law authorized the Veteran Employment through
Technology Education Courses (VET TEC) Pilot Program.
The VET-TEC Pilot Program's goal is to offer veterans an
opportunity to study in high technology programs of education that are
approved and paid for by VA. VET-TEC provides training in high-demand
employment arenas such as computer software, computer programming, data
processing, information science and media applications.
On January 5, 2021, the president signed Public Law 116-315, which
amended a number of VA benefits, including the VET-TEC program;
however, it remains a pilot program and is not permanent. H.R. 1669
would make this program permanent.
VET-TEC has trained thousands of veterans for jobs in the tech
industry with an 84 percent graduation rate. DAV knows that a veteran's
transition to civilian life is not complete until they are able to
secure meaningful employment that allows them to live their life with
respect and dignity.
DAV strongly supports the VET-TEC Authorization Act in accord with
DAV Resolution No. 183. Every veteran travels their own unique path in
pursing their new career after service, which is why the VET TEC
program remains such a valuable option for many of our Nation's
veterans and needs to be made permanent.
H.R. 1767, the Student Veteran Benefit Restoration Act
The Student Veteran Benefit Restoration Act would determine if an
action by an institution of higher learning would affect the
educational benefits of a veteran if evidence has been discovered that
the school committed an offense that would cause an interruption in the
veteran's education program.
If an institution of higher learning closes, a course of study or
program is discontinued due to no fault of the veteran, then the amount
of entitlement the veteran has should not be reduced due to the
circumstances of the school.
H.R. 1767 would also would allow repayment of educational
assistance received during a period of recognized fraud for a course if
it has been determined that the course or program was suspended or
terminated by that school.
In accordance with DAV Resolution 187, DAV supports H.R. 1767, the
Student Veteran Benefit Restoration Act, which will help student
veterans maintain their benefits if an institution of higher learning
closes or discontinues a program due to no fault of the veteran.
H.R. 1786, the Get Rewarding Outdoor Work for our Veterans Act
The Get Rewarding Outdoor Work (GROW) for our Veterans Act would
require VA to submit to Congress a report on the Warrior Training
Advancement Course (WARTAC). It is a skill-bridge education and
employment opportunity for transitioning service members to complete a
national-level Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) training program
while still on active duty. Successful completion of the program leads
to an employment opportunity at one of 55 VBA Regional Offices (ROs)
around the country.
Participants learn the skill set of a rating veteran service
representative (RVSR) or veteran service representative (VSR). The
duration of the VSR class is 6 weeks and the duration of the RVSR class
is 11 weeks. WARTAC is open to transitioning service members who have
180 days or less left in service.
DAV supports the WARTAC program. It provides veterans meaningful
employment opportunities and fills the need of VBA to add employees to
help address the backlog of claims. The reporting requirement will help
to determine the impact and effectiveness of the program.
Additionally, the GROW for our Veterans Act would require the
Secretary of the Interior, in consultation with the Assistant Secretary
of Labor for Veterans' Employment and Training and the Secretary of
Veterans Affairs to establish a pilot program under which veterans are
employed by the Federal Government in positions that relate to the
conservation and resource management activities of the Department of
the Interior.
In accordance with DAV Resolution No. 185, DAV supports the GROW
for our Veterans Act, as it provides the pilot program that is similar
to a federal works program, that directly provides Federal employment
for disabled veterans.
H.R. 1799, the EMPLOY VETS Act
The EMPLOY VETS Act would expand the definition of eligible
veterans for
VA job counseling, training and placement services for veterans by
adding those service members who are eligible for the Transition
Assistance Program (TAP).
The transition from military service to civilian life is very
difficult for many veterans who must overcome obstacles to successful
employment. By including those who are eligible for TAP in the programs
within Title 38, United States Code, 4100, it fulfills the intent and
purpose of Congress to provide:
job and job training intensive services program;
employment placement service program; and
job training placement service program for eligible
veterans and eligible persons.
For many separating from service, the immediate focus is seeking
gainful employment to support themselves and their families. We agree
that those eligible for TAP should have the same benefits available to
them. In accord with DAV Resolution No. 187, we strongly support the
EMPLOY VETS Act.
Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement.
[all]