[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                      AMERICAN EDUCATION IN CRISIS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________



            HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, FEBRUARY 8, 2023

                               __________

                            Serial No. 118-1

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and the Workforce
  
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]  


        Available via: edworkforce.house.gov or www.govinfo.gov        
        
                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
51-623 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2024                    
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------         
      
                COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE

               VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina, Chairwoman

JOE WILSON, South Carolina           ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, 
GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania             Virginia,
TIM WALBERG, Michigan                  Ranking Member
GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin            RAUL M. GRIJALVA, Arizona
ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York          JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut
RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia               GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN,
JIM BANKS, Indiana                     Northern Mariana Islands
JAMES COMER, Kentucky                FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida
LLOYD SMUCKER, Pennsylvania          SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
BURGESS OWENS, Utah                  MARK TAKANO, California
BOB GOOD, Virginia                   ALMA S. ADAMS, North Carolina
LISA McCLAIN, Michigan               MARK DeSAULNIER, California
MARY MILLER, Illinois                DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey
MICHELLE STEEL, California           PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
RON ESTES, Kansas                    SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania
JULIA LETLOW, Louisiana              LUCY McBATH, Georgia
KEVIN KILEY, California              JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut
AARON BEAN, Florida                  ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota
ERIC BURLISON, Missouri              HALEY M. STEVENS, Michigan
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas               TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, New Mexico
JOHN JAMES, Michigan                 KATHY MANNING, North Carolina
LORI CHAVEZ-DeREMER, Oregon          FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
BRANDON WILLIAMS, New York           JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York
ERIN HOUCHIN, Indiana

                       Cyrus Artz, Staff Director
              Veronique Pluviose, Minority Staff Director
                                 ------                                
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing held on February 8, 2023.................................     1

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

    Foxx, Hon. Virginia, Chairwoman, Committee on Education and 
      the Workforce..............................................     1
        Prepared statement of....................................     3
    Scott, Hon. Robert C. ``Bobby'', Ranking Member, Committee on 
      Education and the Workforce................................     4
        Prepared statement of....................................     6

                               WITNESSES

    Gentles, Virginia, Director, Education Freedom Center, 
      Independent Women's Forum, Winchester, Virginia............     8
        Prepared statement of....................................    11
    Sullivan, Monty, President, Louisiana Community and Technical 
      College System.............................................    20
        Prepared statement of....................................    22
    Polis, Jared, Governor of Colorado...........................    24
        Prepared statement of....................................    26
    Pulsipher, Scott, President, Western Governors University....    28
        Prepared statement of....................................    31

                         ADDITIONAL SUBMISSIONS

    Chairwoman Foxx:
        Statement for the record dated February 16, 2023 from 
          Thomas Edison State University.........................   107
    Bonamici, Hon. Suzanne, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Oregon:
        Statement for the record dated February 16, 2023, from 
          the National Parent Teacher Association................   110
    Houchin, Hon. Erin, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Indiana:
        Statement for the record from the Dyslexia Institute of 
          Indiana................................................    81
    Omar, Hon. Ilhan, a Representative in Congress from the State 
      of Minnesota:
        Article dated October 24, 2022 from Florida Phoenix by 
          Danielle J. Brown......................................    93
    Takano, Hon. Mark, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of California:
        Open Access article dated February 25, 2022 from JAMA 
          Network Open...........................................   116

                        QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD

    Response to question submitted for the record by:
        Governor Jared Polis.....................................   129
        Dr. Monty Sullivan.......................................   132
        Mr. Scott Pulsipher......................................   135
        Mrs. Virginia Gentles....................................   136

 
                      AMERICAN EDUCATION IN CRISIS

                              ----------                              


                      Wednesday, February 8, 2023

                  House of Representatives,
                  Committee on Education and the Workforce,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m., Room 
2124 Rayburn Building, Hon. Virginia Foxx [chairman of the 
committee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Foxx, Wilson of South Carolina, 
Thompson, Walberg, Grothman, Stefanik, Allen, Banks, Owens, 
Good, McClain, Miller, Kiley, Bean, Burlison, Moran, Chavez-
DeRemer, Williams, Houchin, Scott, Courtney, Wilson, Bonamici, 
Takano, Adams, DeSaulnier, Norcross, Jayapal, Wild, McBath, 
Hayes, Omar, Stevens, Leger Fernandez, Manning, Mrvan, and 
Bowman.
    Staff present: Cyrus Artz, Staff Director; Nick Barley, 
Deputy Communications Director; Solomon Chen, Policy Advisor; 
Michael Davis, Legislative Assistant; Tyler Dufrene, Research 
Assistant; Cate Dillon, Director of Operations; Amy Raaf Jones, 
Director of Education and Human Resources Policy; Alex Knorr, 
Staff Assistant; Marek Laco, Professional Staff Member; John 
Martin, Deputy Director of Workforce Policy/Counsel; Hannah 
Matesic, Director of Member Services and Coalitions; Audra 
McGeorge, Communications Director; Eli Mitchell, Legislative 
Assistant; Ethan Pann, Press Assistant; Gabriella Pistone, 
Staff Assistant; Krystina Skurk, Speechwriter; Mary Christina 
Riley, Professional Staff Member; Katy Roberts, Staff 
Assistant; Mandy Schaumburg, Chief Counsel and Deputy Director 
of Education Policy; Brad Thomas, Senior Education Policy 
Advisor; Kelly Tyroler, Professional Staff Member; Joe Wheeler, 
Professional Staff Member; Amaris Benavidez, Minority 
Professional Staff; Ilana Brunner, Minority General Counsel; 
Scott Estrada, Minority Professional Staff; Rashage Green, 
Minority Director of Education Policy; Christian Haines, 
Minority General Counsel; Rasheedah Hasan, Minority Clerk and 
Member Services; Stephanie Lalle, Minority Communications 
Director; Andre Lindsay, Minority Policy Associate; Kota 
Mizutani, Minority Deputy Communication Director; Veronique 
Pluviose, Minority Staff Director; Banyon Vassar, Minority IT 
Administrator; and Sam Varie, Minority Press Secretary.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Good morning. The Committee on Education 
and the Workforce will come to order. Welcome everyone. I note 
that a quorum is present. Without objection, the Chair is 
authorized to call a recess at any time. The committee is 
meeting today to hear testimony on the State of our education 
system.
    I am going to give a quick explanation for why we are 
meeting in the Judiciary Room. We had a broken water main in 
the Education Committee, and all our electronic equipment is 
inoperable. We are thankful to the Judiciary Committee for 
allowing us to use this room today for this very important 
hearing.
    Pursuant to Committee Rule 8(c), opening statements are 
limited to the Chair and the Ranking Member, so that we may 
hear from the witnesses sooner and provide all members with 
adequate time to ask questions. I now recognize myself for the 
purpose of making an opening statement.
    From elementary school to law school, the State of this 
Nation's education system is deeply troubling at every level. 
Republicans want transparency and innovative solutions to the 
problems in our education system, while Democrats want 
taxpayers to fork over their hard-earned paychecks to empower 
the D.C. bureaucracy.
    One of my top priorities as Chairwoman of the Education 
Workforce Committee is to protect parental rights. During the 
pandemic, parents saw first-hand how poorly our current K-12 
education system is serving students. These parents witnessed 
the education establishment put the interest of teachers' 
unions over the interest of their children.
    Parents witnessed the educators writing political ideology 
instead of teaching fundamental subjects like mathematics and 
reading, and parents witnessed their children fall further and 
further behind academically. This learning loss has been 
devastating, causing millions of students to lose years of 
academic progress.
    The 2022 National Assessment of Educational Progress, NAEP, 
saw scores for 9-year-olds decline 5 points in reading, and 7 
points in math compared to 2020. This is the largest average 
decline in reading since 1990 and first ever decline in math. 
Parents have reason to be angry and should have every 
opportunity to express the concerns.
    Instead, they were stone wall silenced and intimidated. 
Some parents were even forcibly removed from school board 
meetings, investigated by the FBI, and called domestic 
terrorists. This must change. That is why we will champion the 
Parents Bill of Rights introduced in the last Congress, by most 
members of this committee led by Julia Letlow of Louisiana.
    This legislation will protect the right of parents to know 
what their child is being taught in the classroom, as well as 
their right to be heard. It is time for the education complex 
to understand that children belong to their parents, not the 
State. Extending education freedom to more students will also 
be one of my top priorities as it has been since I came to 
Congress, and I am pleased to see more parents taking their 
child's education into their own hands since the pandemic.
    There is been a surge in the creation of micro schools, 
home school, co-ops, and other innovative forms of education. 
There has also been a surge in enrollment in charter schools 
and private schools. This is a good thing. More competition and 
disruption in the modern education system means all schools 
will have greater incentives to serve their students well.
    I am hopeful that this is a topic Republicans and Democrats 
can work on together, as I know we all want what is best for 
students. I will also be working to protect the integrity of 
Title IX. We must maintain a level playing field for women and 
girls in sports. This is no game. Many opportunities for girls 
and women hinge on their participation in sports, allowing men 
to take the place of women on sports teams erodes decades of 
accomplishment and deprives women of these opportunities.
    Post-secondary education means just as much transformation 
as K-12 education, yet the Biden administration is turning our 
student loan system on its head. Instead of addressing problems 
like the rising cost of college and poor student outcomes, 
Republicans will not stand by while the Biden administration 
attempts to enact its retroactive free college agenda.
    As the institution that holds the power of the purse, we 
have a responsibility to protect the interest of taxpayers and 
ensure that students are receiving a high-quality education 
that enables them to repay their loans and be career ready. 
Republicans plan to pass common sense legislation that fixes 
the inherent problems in our Federal student loan and 
accountability systems to protect most Federal student loan 
and--to protect, pardon me, both borrowers and taxpayers.
    You will also hear about the necessity for college cost 
transparency and innovation here today. We have a tremendous 
opportunity to advance bold, post-secondary education 
solutions. Finally, Republicans will also work to improve our 
Nation's workforce development programs, and ensure they are 
delivering the skills development opportunities that workers 
seek and employer's demand.
    We recognize that a Baccalaureate degree is not the 
appropriate or necessary path for everyone, and we must support 
all pathways to achieving the American dream. Once again, 
welcome to all new and returning members. I look forward to 
working with you. Let us make this a productive Congress. I now 
recognize the distinguished Ranking Member for the purpose of 
making an opening statement.
    [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Foxx follows:]

Statement of Hon. Virginia Foxx, Chairwoman, Committee on Education and 
                             the Workforce

    From elementary school to law school, the state of this nation's 
education system is deeply troubling at every level. Republicans want 
transparency and innovative solutions to the problems in our education 
system, while Democrats want taxpayers to fork over their hard-earned 
paychecks to empower the D.C. bureaucracy.
    One of my top priorities as Chairwoman of the Education and the 
Workforce Committee is to protect parental rights. During the pandemic, 
parents saw firsthand how poorly our current K-12 education system is 
serving students. These parents witnessed the education establishment 
put the interests of teachers unions over the interests of their 
children. Parents witnessed educators spreading political ideology 
instead of teaching fundamental subjects like mathematics and reading. 
Parents witnessed their children fall further and further behind 
academically.
    This learning loss has been devastating, causing millions of 
students to lose years of academic progress. The 2022 National 
Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) saw scores for nine-year-olds 
decline five points in reading and seven points in math compared to 
2020. This is the largest average decline in reading since 1990 and the 
first-ever decline in math.
    Parents have reason to be angry and should have every opportunity 
to express their concerns. Instead, they were stonewalled, silenced, 
and intimidated. Some parents were even forcibly removed from school 
board meetings, investigated by the FBI, and called domestic 
terrorists.
    This must change. That is why I will champion the Parents Bill of 
Rights Act. Introduced last Congress by Congresswoman Julia Letlow of 
Louisiana, this legislation will protect the right of parents to know 
what their child is being taught in the classroom as well as their 
right to be heard. It is time for the education complex to understand 
that children belong to their parents, not the state.
    Extending education freedom to more students will also be one of my 
top priorities, as it has been since I came to Congress, and I am 
pleased to see more parents taking their child's education into their 
own hands since the pandemic. There has been a surge in the creation of 
micro-schools, homeschool co-opts, and other innovative forms of 
education. There has also been a surge in enrollment in charter schools 
and private schools. This is a good thing. More competition and 
disruption in the modern education system means all schools will have 
greater incentives to serve their students well. I am hopeful that this 
is a topic Republicans and Democrats can work on together, as I know we 
all want what is best for students.
    I will also be working to protect the integrity of Title IX. We 
must maintain a level playing field for women and girls in sports. This 
is no game. Many opportunities for girls and women hinge on their 
participation in sports. Allowing men to take the place of women on 
sports teams erodes decades of accomplishment and deprives women of 
these opportunities.
    Postsecondary education needs just as much transformation as K-12 
education. The Biden administration is turning our student loan system 
on its head instead of addressing problems like the rising cost of 
college and poor student outcomes. Republicans will not stand by while 
the Biden administration attempts to enact its retroactive free college 
agenda. As the institution that holds the power of the purse, we have a 
responsibility to protect the interests of taxpayers and ensure that 
students are receiving a high-quality education that enables them to 
repay their loans and be career ready.
    Republicans plan to pass commonsense legislation that fixes the 
inherent problems in our federal student loan and accountability 
systems to protect both borrowers and taxpayers. You will also hear 
about the necessity for college cost transparency and innovation here 
today have a tremendous opportunity to advance bold postsecondary 
education solutions.
    Finally, Republicans will also work to improve our nation's 
workforce development programs and ensure they are delivering the 
skills development opportunities that workers seek and employers 
demand. We recognize that a baccalaureate degree is not the appropriate 
or necessary path for everyone, and we must support all pathways to 
achieving the American Dream.
    Once again, welcome to all new and returning members, I look 
forward toworking with you. Let us make this a productive Congress.
                                 ______
                                 
    Mr. Scott. Good morning, and thank you Dr. Foxx. When the 
Supreme Court decided the Brown v. Board of Education decision 
in 1954, it outlawed legal discrimination in education, and 
said among other things, that in these days this is doubtful 
that any child may reasonably be expected to succeed in life if 
denied the opportunity of an education.
    Such an opportunity where the State has undertaken to 
provide it is a right which needs to be made available to all 
on equal terms. The Court arrived at that opinion in the 
context of racial segregation, but in fact their analysis was 
clear. Access to a quality education is a right, and politics 
should never prevent a student from receiving a high-quality 
education.
    In recent years Republican politicians have turned their 
student's classroom into the epicenter of the culture wars. The 
outset of the COVID-19 pandemic, republican politicians sought 
to force schools to reopen the classrooms to full-time, in-
person instruction regardless of whether it was safe or not.
    Then in 2021, despite schools and institutions clear need 
for additional relief funding, the republican lawmakers did 
nothing to meaningfully help them reopen safely to help 
students recover from the pandemic. In fact, every 
congressional republican voted against the American Rescue 
Plan, which Democrats passed to provide funding to make it 
actually possible to open the schools safely, keep them open 
safely, and to make up the lost learning.
    Of course, academic scores have been down. Students were 
out of school for a year, maybe even more, and the American 
Rescue Plan provided the resources to open safely and make sure 
that we could make up for lost learning with things like after 
school programs, summer programs, counselors, and tutors. Those 
cost money, and the American Rescue Plan provided that money.
    Now instead of working with Democrats to address the real 
issues in schools and institutions, republican lawmakers are 
prioritizing cultural wars and investigations, that is in fact 
the number of bills introduced across the country to restrict 
teaching about certain topics or educational gag orders, 
increased in 2022 by 250 percent compared to 2021.
    Several republicans led states advanced anti-LGBTQ bills, 
like Florida's Don't Say Gay Bill. One CEO said that the LGBT 
youth suicide and crisis prevention leads to youth suicide and 
crisis prevention organization said that these bills only add 
to existing stigma and discrimination, which puts these young 
people at greater risk of bullying, depression, and even 
suicide.
    Republican politicians have also supported and implemented 
policies to ban books, censor curriculum and textbooks at every 
level of learning, and punish teachers for accurately 
recounting our Nation's history. Worse, we have seen the 
proliferation of verbal and physical threats at typically 
tedious school board meetings.
    Florida adopted the so-called Individual Freedom Measure, 
which banned educators from teaching certain topics related to 
race. In my home State the Governor established an emergency 
hotline regarding the teacher teaching critical race theory in 
K through 12. That dedicated phone line was shut down since 
there were no complaints about CRT being taught in elementary 
and secondary schools, and that is maybe because it is only 
taught in a few law schools.
    Educational gag orders are a distraction and do not address 
the public's concerns about the academic success and well-being 
of America's students. Many of these attacks have been launched 
under the guise of transparency and expanded parent's rights. 
While parental engagement is critical for a student's success, 
bills introduced have been crafted to give a vocal minority the 
power to impose personal beliefs over all students.
    Even worse, Republican politicians holding educators 
hostage by forcing them to choose between extremist views, or 
fully funded classrooms. For example, in K through 12 schools 
in South Carolina and Tennessee, Republican lawmakers passed 
legislation to withhold badly needed funding from schools 
because of their curriculum.
    Slashing support for students has not stopped there. The 
Republicans Attorney General is suing to prevent over 40 
million eligible student loan borrowers from accessing student 
loan relief. Congressional Republicans are simultaneously 
introducing legislation that would make severe cuts to programs 
and help students afford a college degree. congressional 
Republicans are also opposing the expansion of registered 
apprenticeship programs. Our most successful workforce 
development program. We know that 93 percent of apprentices who 
complete a registered apprenticeship retain employment with an 
average salary of 70 to $7,000.00.
    One recent study found that for every dollar a business 
invests in the registered apprenticeship program, they earn 
$1.44 back. These programs are a win/win for workers and 
businesses, and yet we are ignoring the effectiveness of 
registered apprenticeships, and advocate diversion of funding 
to untested models called Industry Recognized Apprenticeship 
Programs or IRAPs.
    IRAPs do not have the guaranteed quality and national 
recognition that registered apprenticeships have. This 
Congress, congressional Democrats plan to reintroduce 
legislation to help every student reach his or her full 
potential. First, the Rebuild America's Schools Act and 
Students and Diversity Act and the Equity Inclusion Enforcement 
Act will help modernize healthy school buildings so students 
can learn safety, eliminate inequities in education, and 
provide families with a legal remedy for students to address 
disparities in education.
    More options for schools to achievement, NOW Act, the Loan 
Act, make sure that all Americans can have more access to 
affordable and higher education. The Workforce Innovation and 
Opportunity Act, and the National Apprenticeship Act will fully 
fund evidence-based job training and apprenticeship programs to 
prepare individuals for our modern economy.
    These legislative priorities are rooted in evidence and 
research and will take into account the real concerns facing 
students, parents, educators and communities. I hope my 
colleagues on the committee will stop putting--will put--stop 
putting politics over people and put people over politics and 
join Democrats in addressing the most pressing issues facing 
our Nation's students. With that Madam Chair, I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Ranking Member Scott follows:]

Statement of Hon. Robert C. ``Bobby'' Scott, Ranking Member, Committee 
                     on Education and the Workforce

    Good morning. Thank you, Dr. Foxx.
    When the Supreme Court decided the Brown v. Board of Education 
decision in 1954, it outlawed legal segregation in education, and 
said--among other things--that, ``In these days, it is doubtful that 
any child may reasonably be expected to succeed in life if denied the 
opportunity of an education. Such an opportunity, where the state has 
undertaken to provide it, is a right which must be made available to 
all on equal terms.''
    The Court arrived at that opinion in the context of racial 
segregation. In fact, their analysis was clear: access to a quality 
education is a right and politics should never prevent a student from 
receiving a high-quality education. In recent years, Republican 
politicians have turned our students' classrooms into the epicenter of 
their culture wars.
    At the outset of the COVID-19 pandemic, Republican politicians 
sought to force schools to reopen classrooms for full-time, in-person 
instruction, regardless of whether it was safe or not.
    Then, in 2021, despite schools' and institutions' clear need for 
additional relief funding, Republican lawmakers did nothing to 
meaningfully help them reopen safely or help students recover from the 
pandemic. In fact, every Congressional Republican voted against the 
American Rescue Plan, which Democrats passed to provide funding to make 
it actually possible to open the schools safely, keep them open safely, 
and make up for lost learning.
    Of course, academic scores have been down. Students were out of 
school for a year--maybe even more. The American Rescue Plan provided 
the resources to open safely and make sure that we could make up for 
lost learning with things like afterschool programs, summer programs, 
counselors, and tutors. Those cost money, and the American Rescue Plan 
provided that money.
    Now, instead of working with Democrats to address the real issues 
in schools and institutions, Republican lawmakers are prioritizing 
culture wars and investigations. In fact, the number of bills 
introduced across the country to restrict teaching about certain 
topics, or ``educational gag orders,'' increased in 2022 by 250 
percent, compared to 2021.
    Several Republican-led states have advanced anti-LGBTQ bills, like 
Florida's ``Don't Say Gay'' bill. One CEO who leads a youth suicide and 
crisis prevention organization, said that these bills ``only add to the 
existing stigma and discrimination, which puts these young people at 
greater risk for bullying, depression, and even suicide.''
    Republican politicians have also supported and implemented policies 
to ban books; censor curriculum and textbooks at every level of 
learning; and punish teachers for accurately recounting our nation's 
history. Worse, we have seen the proliferation of verbal and physical 
threats at typically tedious school board meetings.
    Florida adopted the so-called ``Individual Freedom'' measure, which 
banned educators from teaching certain topics related to race. In my 
home state, the governor established an emergency hotline regarding the 
teaching of Critical Race Theory in K-12. That dedicated phone line was 
shut down since there were no complaints about CRT being taught in 
elementary or secondary schools. That is maybe because it is only 
taught in a few law schools.
    Educational gag orders are a distraction and do not address the 
public's concerns about the academic success and wellbeing of America's 
students. Many of these attacks have been launched under the guise of 
transparency and expanding parents' rights. While parental engagement 
is critical for a student's success, the bills introduced have been 
crafted to give a vocal minority the power to impose personal beliefs 
over all students.
    Even worse, Republican politicians are holding educators hostage by 
forcing them to choose between extremist views or fully-funded 
classrooms.
    For example, in K-12 schools in South Carolina and Tennessee, 
Republican lawmakers passed legislation to withhold badly needed 
funding from schools because of their curriculum. Slashing support for 
students has not stopped there.
    Republican Attorneys General are suing to prevent over 40 million 
eligible student loan borrowers from accessing student loan relief 
while Congressional Republicans are simultaneously introducing 
legislation that would make severe cuts to programs that help students 
afford a college degree.
    Congressional Republicans are also opposing the expansion of 
Registered Apprenticeship programs-our most successful workforce 
development program. We know that 93 percent of apprentices who 
complete a Registered Apprenticeship retains employment, with an 
average annual salary of $77,000. One recent study found that, for 
every dollar a business invests in a Registered Apprenticeship program, 
they earn $1.44 back. These programs are a win-win for workers and 
businesses, yet we are ignoring the effectiveness Registered 
Apprenticeships and they advocate for a diversion funding to untested 
models, called Industry Recognized Apprenticeship Programs, or IRAPs. 
IRAPs do not have the guaranteed quality and national recognition that 
Registered Apprenticeships have.
    This Congress, Congressional Democrats plan to reintroduce 
legislation to help every student reach his or her full potential.
    First, the Rebuild America's Schools Act, the Strength in Diversity 
Act, and the Equity and Inclusion Enforcement Act will help modernize 
healthy school buildings so students can learn safely, eliminate 
inequities in education, and provide families with a legal remedy for 
students to address disparities in education.
    The Lowering Obstacles to Achievement Now Act, the LOAN Act, will 
ensure that all Americans can have more access to affordable higher 
education.
    The Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act and the National 
Apprenticeship Act will fully-fund evidence-based job training and 
apprenticeship programs to prepare individuals for our modern economy.
    These legislative priorities are rooted in evidence and research 
and will take into account the real concerns facing students, parents, 
educators, and communities.
    I hope my colleagues on the Committee will stop putting politics 
over people, put people over politics, and join Democrats in addressing 
the most pressing issues facing our nation's students.
                                 ______
                                 
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Representative Scott. Without 
objection, all of the members who wish to insert written 
statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the 
committee clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5 
p.m., 14 days after the day of this hearing, February 22, 2023.
    I will now introduce our witnesses. Ms. Virginia Gentles is 
the Director of the Education Freedom Center with Independent 
Women's Forum. Dr. Monty Sullivan. Dr. Monty Sullivan is the 
President of Louisiana Community and Technical College System 
located in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Mr. Jared is the Governor of 
Colorado and a former colleague who served admirably on this 
committee. For our final witness, I yield to Representative 
Owens for the introduction.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you, Chairwoman Foxx. It gives me great 
pleasure to introduce to this committee Mr. Scott Pulsipher, 
President of Western Governors University, WGU, headquartered 
in my district in Salt Lake City, Utah. After more than 20 
years in the private sector, Mr. Pulsipher came to WGU in 2016, 
and has proven himself to be a game change in postsecondary 
education.
    WGU is the Nation's first and largest competency-based 
university and his leadership and institution has continued to 
drive innovation to continue to improve student's outcomes in 
Utah and across the country. Thank you, Mr. Pulsipher, for 
coming before this Committee. I look forward to hearing from 
you today.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much Mr. Owens. We thank 
all our witnesses for being here today, and we look forward to 
your testimony. Let me remind the witnesses that we have read 
your written statements, and that they will appear in full in 
the hearing record.
    Pursuant to Committee Rule 8D and committee practice, each 
of you is asked to limit your oral presentation to a 5-minute 
summary of your written statement. The witnesses are aware of 
their responsibility to provide accurate information to the 
subcommittee, and therefore we will proceed with their 
testimony.
    Before you begin your testimony, please remember to press 
the button on the microphone in front of you so that it will 
turn on and the members can hear you. As you begin to speak the 
light in front of you will turn green. After 4 minutes, the 
light will turn yellow to signal that you have 1 minute 
remaining. When the light turns red, your 5 minutes have 
expired and we ask that you please wrap up.
    As a longstanding committee practice, we will let the 
entire panel make their presentations before we move to member 
questions. When answering a question, please remember to once 
again to turn your microphone on, and then off when finished. I 
will first recognize Ms. Gentles.

  STATEMENT OF VIRGINIA GENTLES, DIRECTOR, EDUCATION FREEDOM 
     CENTER,INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S FORUM, WINCHESTER, VIRGINIA

    Mrs. Gentles. Chairwoman Foxx, Ranking Member Scott, and 
members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to appear 
today. My name is Virginia Gentles, and I am the mother of two 
school-aged children, and the director of the Education Freedom 
Center at Independent Women's Forum.
    Before I delve into the significant challenges our 
students, teachers, and families are facing, I want to 
highlight two positive developments, and the first is the 
expansion of education freedom. Iowa and Utah passed laws last 
month creating K-12 education savings account programs, and 
last year Arizona established the gold standard for education 
freedom by expanding eligibility for the state's existing ESA 
programs to cover all 1.1 million Arizona students.
    Second, policymakers are acknowledging the widespread 
failure of balanced literacy reading programs and starting to 
require phonics-based reading instruction. As legislators who 
regularly hear from distraught parents, you are familiar with 
the bad news. We are faced with alarming learning loss fueled 
by the potent combination of COVID-era school closures and the 
prioritization of activism over academic instruction.
    Pervasive discipline and mental health issues that are 
creating an unsafe environment for students and teachers, 
school systems that are determined to view parents as the 
enemy; and powerful teachers' unions and education bureaucrats 
that reject transparency and accountability, yet relentlessly 
demand more funding.
    We must acknowledge the pernicious influence of the 
teachers' unions. These powerful organizations seek to expand 
their partisan political influence, and control working 
conditions. They do not aspire to improve education. Union 
roadblocks appeared at the outset of the COVID-era school 
closures, and they continued into 2021, with leaders colluding 
with the CDC to draft restrictive reopening guidance.
    Union leaders and union supported school board members 
cannot and should not escape accountability for the learning 
loss crisis they exacerbated. Fourth and eighth grade math and 
reading scores on the 2022 nation's report card significantly 
dropped since students were last tested in 2019. Only one-
quarter of eighth grade students met math proficiency 
standards.
    Chaotic classrooms are driving talented teachers to quit, 
likely accelerating learning loss. According to Federal data 
schools are plagued with chronic absenteeism, a significant 
increase in behavioral issues, and an increase in verbal abuse 
and disrespect toward teachers.
    School districts' excessively lenient discipline policies 
leave teachers without the tools they need to address these 
challenges. In theory, mental health support could help 
children, but many parents are concerned about the consequences 
of funneling more money into school counselors that are 
represented by an association that embraces radical ideologies.
    Unfortunately, too many forces within the education system 
insist on prioritizing the promotion of ideologies over 
academic instruction. Polls consistently reveal that most 
people do not want children to be bombarded with activist-
drafted materials, and lessons, and books that are pushing 
radical gender ideology, and instructing young children that 
they can be born in the wrong body,
    School policies that secretly socially transition children, 
hiding their new names, identities, and bathroom, locker room, 
and overnight trip accommodations from parents through Gender 
Support Plans are based on the assumption that the only 
acceptable response to children who express a desire for a new 
name and identity is immediate and unquestioning affirmation.
    School staff are pushing highly sensitive girls regardless 
of their mental health struggles, down a one-way path to 
medical transition, and school staff who do not adhere to this 
radical belief system are punished. School districts are citing 
non-existent Title IX related requirements as the pretext for 
hiding information from parents. This must stop.
    Congress can address one Title IX issue by supporting 
Congressman Greg Steube's Protection of Women and Girls in 
Sports Act, which will end the practice of allowing biological 
males to take awards, roster spots, and scholarships from 
female athletes.
    Parents deserve power over their children's education. The 
education bureaucrats and unions hold all the power in states 
without education freedom. Supporting the Parent's Bill of 
Rights Act introduced by Representative Julia Letlow will 
acknowledge parents' fundamental rights and the importance of 
curriculum, budget, and student record transparency.
    Students must be allowed to escape the residentially 
assigned public schools that are not effectively educating 
them. The Educational Choice for Children's Act will create a 
K-12 Federal scholarship tax credit and give parents the 
purchasing power to pay for tuition, tutoring, or technology.
    It is time for funding to follow the child to the education 
option that best meets his or her needs. Leaders of the public 
K-12 education system continue to demand funding increases, but 
the Federal Government already provided more than 190 billion 
in emergency supplemental education funding, primarily in the 
form of elementary and secondary school emergency relief, or 
ESSR funds.
    The money was largely not needed, or used to facilitate 
school reopening, and many districts have not yet spent the 
funds. I am the mother of a sixth and a ninth grader, so I have 
a front row seat to the failures of our educational system. We 
need legislators to hold the K-12 cartel accountable for the 
learning loss crisis it created, and pass legislation that 
provides families with educational transparency and freedom. 
Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mrs. Gentles follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much for being right on 
time. We will now hear from Dr. Sullivan.

STATEMENT OF DR. MONTY SULLIVAN, PRESIDENT, LOUISIANA COMMUNITY 
                  AND TECHNICAL COLLEGE SYSTEM

    Mr. Sullivan. Good morning. Chairwoman Foxx, Ranking Member 
Scott, and members of the committee. I am Monty Sullivan, 
President of the Louisiana Community and Technical College 
System, and President of Rebuilding America's Middle Class, a 
national coalition of State and individual community college 
systems.
    On behalf of Louisiana's 12 2-year institutions, and the 
more than 150,000 students that we serve annually, as well as 
RAMC, thank you for the opportunity to be here today. With each 
information cycle and technological advancement, the skills 
requirements of the workplace are ever increasing.
    We are already far behind, as reflected in our Nation's 
near-record 11 million unfilled jobs. Louisiana leads the 
Nation in this category with unfilled vacancies. At the same 
time, we have people sitting on the sidelines, who want to 
work, but have not yet obtained the education and skills needed 
to participate in the modern economy.
    The United States labor force participation rate was 62.4 
percent in January. That is down from 67 percent two decades 
ago. We have far too many people on the sidelines not 
participating in the economy. The market for talent is 
exceptionally tight and seems to be growing tighter by the day.
    Central to this policy must be the recognition that almost 
every good job in America requires participation beyond high 
school, perhaps college, perhaps on the job skills, but beyond 
high school. With that perspective, the following are 
recommendations to the committee.
    First and foremost, expand Pell Grants to cover short-term 
workforce programs. The single most important step Congress can 
take on behalf of the 60 million Americans with a high school 
diploma or less. Let that sink in. It is to authorize the use 
of Pell Grants for workforce programs.
    Students need the shortest and least expensive pathway to 
employment and opportunity for advancement throughout their 
lives. In the last 3 years, our community colleges in Louisiana 
have served over 15 thousand students who graduated with these 
credentials. Students completing these programs have strong job 
placement rates above 90 percent and have a demonstrated wage 
improvement of well over 20 percent from the prior year.
    More broadly in Louisiana, we have a recognized earnings 
premium for our students who complete short-term workforce 
programs that is greater than the initial earnings of those 
students who gain credentials from credit-based programs that 
are Pell eligible. Clearly, these short-term credentials are 
demonstrating value to employers, yet these shorter-term 
programs are reserved for those who have money in their pockets 
and will not require Pell Grants to attend college.
    Effectively, we are limiting the ability of a broad swath 
of Americans to quickly gain the skills needed to obtain a good 
job. I congratulate you, Chairwoman Foxx, along with 
Representative Stefanik, Banks, Hinson, and Thompson for your 
vision, and bringing forward the Promoting Employment and 
Lifelong Learning Act which RAMC has endorsed.
    I also appreciate the several other efforts in Congress to 
expand Pell Grants for short-term programs, and strongly urge 
Congress to come to a consensus on this issue.
    Point two, updated and improved WIOA. Under the Workforce 
Innovation and Opportunity Act, Louisiana has 15 workforce 
development areas, each with its own local board led by a 
business representative. Collectively, in program year ending 
2022, Louisiana serves 5,655 individuals in ``training 
services,'' which places Louisiana above the national average, 
yet it pales in comparison to the 180,000 vacancies that we 
have in Louisiana.
    We simply cannot get to the goal continuing down the path 
we are on today. The following are recommendations I would make 
to you around WIOA. First and foremost, require more WIOA funds 
to be targeted toward workforce training accounts. Improve 
coordination with the Higher Education Act. Individuals do not 
understand the difference between Federal policy and WIOA, and 
Higher Education Act. Streamline those processes.
    Maintain the requirement for State and local boards to be 
led by businesses. Allow for more flexibility in establishing 
enhanced accountability systems with providers and provide 
better labor market information. Finally, strengthen the role 
of community colleges as we think about the development and the 
growth of our workforce system.
    Point three, we must establish a no wrong door approach to 
education and workforce attainment. While the effort is 
intended to lower and eliminate barriers to access education 
employment, current policies too often place the highest 
barriers in front of those with the greatest need.
    Point four, and the final point, developing America's 
talent is the responsibility of the education system, but also 
business partners. They cannot do it alone. We have great 
examples in Louisiana business partnerships. Our friends at 
General Dynamics IT are located on the campus of Bossier 
Parrish Community College with over 1,000 employees right there 
on the college campus.
    In the New Orleans market, our Mechatronics apprenticeship 
program brings together three LCTCS colleges to meet the needs 
of the greater manufacturing sector. In closing, I would like 
to thank you again for the opportunity to share some thoughts 
with you today. Education is indeed the anecdote to the ills of 
this Nation.
    We know that our people and our economy will be more 
resilient, dynamic, and future ready if we can free ourselves 
from historical structures and reconceptualize the systems for 
the modern world. Can you image--can you imagine an America 
where every single household has one college credential, or 
industry-based certification that supports that household? I 
can imagine that America. Together we can get there. Thank you 
for the opportunity.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Sullivan follows:]

  Statement of Dr. Monty Sullivan, President, Louisiana Community and 
                        Technical College System

    Good morning, Chairwoman Foxx, Ranking Member Scott, and Members of 
the Committee. I am Monty Sullivan, President of the Louisiana 
Community and Technical College System (LCTCS) and President of 
Rebuilding America's Middle Class (RAMC), a coalition of state and 
individual community college systems from across the country that share 
the belief that community colleges are one of America's primary 
solutions to building a strong, more competitive workforce and 
therefore, a strong middle class. On behalf of Louisiana's twelve two-
year colleges and the 150,000 students we serve each year, as well as 
RAMC, thank you for the opportunity to be here today to discuss what I 
see as a crisis in our nation's education and workforce system.
    With each information cycle and technological advancement, the 
skill requirements of the workplace are ever increasing. Last week, the 
President of Microsoft, Brad Smith, wrote a blogpost noting the advance 
in artificial intelligence expected by 2033 would instead be here in 
2023. He and others have signaled the profound impact this new 
technology will have on jobs and education. This is just one example of 
why we need to ensure our nation's system of education and workforce 
development can provide the skills that individuals will need to 
succeed in our ever-changing economy.
    We are already far behind, as reflected in our nation's near-record 
11 million unfilled job openings. Louisiana leads the nation in 
unfilled jobs, and we are also expecting tens of thousands of new jobs 
to materialize from the shift to a new energy economy, and a rapidly 
expanding industrial sector in fields like liquefied natural gas (LNG) 
and chemical manufacturing. Not to mention health care workforce 
shortages, which are impacting the daily care of those in Louisiana and 
throughout the country. The market for talent is exceptionally tight 
and seems to be growing tighter by the day.
    At the same time, we have people sitting on the sidelines who want 
to work but have not yet obtained the education and skills needed to 
participate in the modern economy. The United States labor force 
participation rate was 62.4 percent in January, a rate that has been 
dropping for the last several decades from when it was 67 percent. This 
translates into millions of more individuals not in today's labor 
force.
    With relatively low labor force participation rates, we have a 
significant pool of untapped talent stranded in this economy. We must 
forge a policy environment that broadens opportunity in this nation. 
Central to this policy must be the recognition that almost every good 
job in America requires preparation beyond a standard high school 
diploma. Therefore, every American needs some level of education and 
skills beyond high school whether gained at college, on the job, or 
even through a free MOOC. In addressing this issue from a policy 
perspective, we must align education and workforce policy in a 
complementary manner and not as mutually exclusive.
    With that perspective, the following are recommendations for this 
Committee to consider in order to address at least some aspects of our 
nation's education and workforce crisis.
    1. Expand Pell Grants to cover short-term / workforce programs: The 
single most important step Congress can take in helping address our 
nation's skill shortage is to immediately authorize the use of Pell 
Grants for workforce programs. Students need the shortest and least 
expensive pathways to employment with opportunities for advancement 
throughout their lives.
    In the last three years, our community colleges in Louisiana have 
graduated roughly 15,000 students from short-term workforce programs 
using state funds. The results have been astounding. First, students 
who complete these programs have very strong job placement rates (above 
90 percent) and demonstrate wage improvements of 20 percent in their 
first year on the job (Glass, C., Strong Wage Gains from Short-term 
Credentials, Old Dominion University, Community College Leadership 
Research Report, Fall 2019).
    More broadly in Louisiana, we have recognized an earnings premium 
for our students who complete short-term workforce programs that is 
greater than the initial earnings of students in traditional credit 
programs that are Pell Grant eligible. Clearly, these credentials are 
demonstrating value to employers.
    Those shorter-term programs, with clear value in the market, are 
reserved for those who have money in their pocket and do not need to 
rely on a Pell Grant for their education. Effectively, we are limiting 
the ability for a broad swath of Americans to quickly gain the skills 
needed to obtain a good job.
    Enacting the Promoting Employment and Lifelong Learning (PELL) Act 
would be a profoundly important step toward addressing this current 
policy need. I congratulate you, Chairwoman Foxx, along with 
Representatives Stefanik, Banks, Hinson, and Thompson, for your vision 
in bringing forward this legislation, which RAMC has endorsed. I also 
appreciate the several other efforts in Congress to expand Pell Grants 
for short-term programs and strongly urge Congress to come to consensus 
on legislation that, when passed, will enable a significant increase in 
the number of students across the country who will have a new 
opportunity in how they improve their skills.
    2. Update and Improve WIOA: Under the Workforce Innovation and 
Opportunity Act (WIOA), Louisiana has 15 Workforce Development Areas, 
each with its own local Workforce Development Board (WDB) that is led 
by a representative of business and includes partners such as community 
colleges and local non-profits. These Boards collectively oversee 62 
American Job Centers and numerous affiliate one-stop centers that 
provide entry for individuals seeking workforce and employment 
services, as well as related supportive services.
    Collectively, in the program year ending last June, 5,655 adults 
(including dislocated workers) were served under WIOA in Louisiana, of 
whom 3,676 received ``training'' services (as defined under WIOA). 
[Note, this proportion of those in ``training'' is higher than the 
national average.] Across the two programs for adults and dislocated 
workers, roughly three quarters of participants were employed six 
months after exiting, and they had average quarterly earnings of $6,697 
and $8,459 respectively. A vast majority of all participants left with 
a credential.
    In 2021, to help address what had often been a disconnect between 
our colleges and WDBs, LCTCS led an effort to hold individual meetings 
with each WDB along with representatives from K12 education, economic 
development, corrections, children and family services, non-profits, 
and four-year colleges. We collectively developed a regional workforce 
ecosystem that continues under the leadership of our community colleges 
and is convened by our regional economic development organizations with 
regional employers. This work has helped us to build the human and 
programmatic infrastructure needed to meet our workforce needs.
    However, despite these types of efforts, we must recognize that we 
will not meet the needs of those seeking to obtain skills or the needs 
of the business community by relying on the current WIOA system. In 
many ways, the program is simply stretched too thin in attempting to 
serve so many roles (convener, purveyor of labor market data, provider 
of career navigation assistance, and facilitator of supportive 
services, to name just a few). As such, the system is often not able to 
fully carry out what should be its central function of providing 
workforce development skills. In fact, in many places less than a 
quarter of WIOA funds are expended for actual workforce development.
    In the past, this Committee has worked in a bipartisan fashion to 
update these programs, and I hope that you are able to again follow 
that path, because it is sorely needed. I believe the next 
reauthorization must, at a minimum, include these reforms:
    Require more funds to be targeted toward providing much-needed 
workforce development through what are identified as ``Individual 
Training Accounts'' under WIOA;
    Improve coordination with the Higher Education Act such as by 
providing incentives for one-stop operators to leverage Pell Grants--
particularly Workforce Pell--so as to facilitate skill development 
opportunities to far more students;
    Maintain current provisions which require state and local boards to 
be led by business;
    Remove the current cap under WIOA on pay-for-performance models, 
allowing states and local workforce boards more flexibility in 
establishing enhanced accountability systems with providers;
    Provide better tools for states and localities related to labor 
market information so that individuals can be provided the most 
accurate and up-to-date information available on what jobs and skills 
are needed today--not yesterday; and
    Consider changes which would strengthen the role of community 
colleges in the overall WIOA workforce development system.
    1. Focus on Students, Not Systems: We must establish a ``no wrong 
door'' approach to education and workforce that provides a clear path 
to education and skills attainment. Whether the journey begins as a 
high school honors graduate or as an adult basic education student, 
there must be a clear path to an education and the American Dream for 
everyone.
    While our education and workforce systems are intended to lower or 
eliminate barriers to accessing education and employment, current 
policies too often place the highest barriers in front of those with 
the most need. For example, the processes for gaining workforce 
development services should not require so much information and 
bureaucracy. Congress should consider an effort, similar to the recent 
passage of FAFSA simplification legislation, to make other education 
and workforce programs more accessible. When barriers win out, the 
impact is not only felt by the individual--we all pay the price when 
their abilities are sidelined and their potential contributions to our 
economy and our society go unrealized.
    4. Leverage and Promote Employer Partnerships: Developing America's 
talent is a responsibility that education systems hold jointly with the 
business community. Employers need to be part of the solution, but they 
cannot solve this problem in isolation. In particular, small and mid-
size businesses must be able to rely on the workforce and education 
systems to supply them with qualified workers who are ready to work.
    The responsibility of any community college or workforce 
preparation program is to prepare students with the right skills needed 
to land a job. Knowing what those skills are can only be accomplished 
when there is active participation and cooperation with employers.
    In Louisiana, we have many examples of innovative and highly 
productive partnerships with industry. In the northwestern part of our 
state, General Dynamics IT, or GDIT, is working with Bossier Parish 
Community College where the company employs about 1,000 employees on 
the premises of the college. GDIT is able to expand the pool of 
potential employees to include rural populations, which is vitally 
important in a time of workforce shortages, and our rural communities 
benefit from salaries in amounts almost unattainable previously to the 
residents of those small towns.
    In the New Orleans area, our Mechatronics apprenticeship program, 
developed in conjunction with Greater New Orleans, Inc, or GNO Inc, our 
regional economic development partner, brings together three LCTCS 
colleges to meet the needs of three manufacturing businesses. Elmer 
Chocolate, Laitram, and Zatarain's identify promising employees, and 
each college teaches them a distinct set of skills to jointly prepare a 
highly sophisticated group of advanced manufacturing workers.
    In Louisiana's Fifth Congressional District, partners like Ethridge 
Pipeline and Conduit, are working closely with Louisiana Delta 
Community College to develop the workforce needed to lay broadband 
across our state. The company has donated equipment, taught classes, 
identified equipment manufacturers, and brought them to the table. In a 
matter of weeks, our colleges have mobilized to create workforce 
development programs across the state to meet the workforce demands for 
one of our nation's strategic priorities.
    Every single day, our colleges are working hand-in-hand with a wide 
array of industry partners to meet the most pressing workforce needs of 
our state. We have the data that reflect the need. It is our firsthand 
experience in the field, talking to business partners and to 
individuals who seek a better life, that gives me hope that we will 
meet the moment. First, we must have a strong policy platform that 
welcomes business partners to the table to help solve this challenge 
with us.
    In closing, I would like to thank you again for the opportunity to 
share some thoughts with you today. We know that our people and our 
economies will be more resilient, dynamic, and future-ready if we can 
free ourselves from historical structures and reconceptualize higher 
education and workforce development for the modern world. I ask you to 
imagine each of your districts spread across this great land. Education 
is the antidote to nearly every single issue we face as a nation. Can 
you imagine an America where every single household has at least one 
college degree or high-value industry-based certification supporting 
that household? Together, we can build a better America for all our 
citizens. Thank you!
                                 ______
                                 
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. I now recognize 
Governor Polis and a former member of this committee as I have 
said, for his comments.

      STATEMENT OF HON. JARED POLIS, GOVERNOR OF COLORADO

    Governor Polis. Good morning. Chairwoman Foxx, Ranking 
Member Scott, well it is good to be under the watchful gaze of 
Chair Conyers and Chair Goodlatte, I hope you return to your 
Committee Room soon, and wish you luck. Thank you for the 
opportunity to testify on the State of education.
    Today our country truly does face an education crisis. A 
crisis in quality, equity, access, and affordability. As 
leaders, we need to do what we can to strengthen our schools, 
create inclusive settings where all students can learn, empower 
our educators, parents, and school leaders to prepare every 
learner for success.
    That starts with strong early childhood education. Colorado 
has made incredible progress with free, full day kindergarten 
for every child, and now a new free universal preschool, which 
launches this fall, which will save families $6,000.00 per 
year, and prepare students for success.
    While the pandemic brought forward significant challenges, 
we saw teachers, students, parents, school districts, higher 
ed, and businesses step up in new and innovative ways. We also 
saw major Federal investments from COVID relief funds provided 
through the Elementary and Secondary Educational Relief, or 
ESSR funds, and the Governor's Emergency Educational Relief or 
GEER funds, that are already making a difference.
    In Colorado we used the lion's share of our ESSR funds to 
address learning loss, like starting the Colorado High Impact 
Tutoring Program, which offered 43,000 hours of tutoring to 
3,800 students in its first semester. We have invested GEER 
money to create the Rise Education Fund, to invest in creative, 
locally driven solutions, to improve student achievement, and 
close achievement gaps in innovative ways, like the creation of 
a mobile learning center that brings resources, internet and 
learning opportunities directly to students in mountainous Lake 
County, Colorado.
    We also created the Governor's Bright Spot Award, to 
recognize the 21 Colorado schools that improved student 
performance two bands or more, on our State accountability 
system since the pandemic began. Like Rocky Mountain Elementary 
School, and St. Vrain Valley School District that implemented 
high-quality hybrid learning, provided a no-cost summer program 
that offered evidence-based literacy and math instruction, and 
improved greatly results over the last 2 years.
    We saw similar innovations across states like Indiana's 
Explore, Engage and Experience Grant Program that allows 
students to test out potential career pathways, and 
Washington's Reimagine Education Project, which integrates 
social emotional learning into alternative learning structures.
    We are also focused on supporting the mental health needs 
of learners, including through critical mental health supports, 
like IMatter, an American Rescue Plan funded program that now 
offers six free counseling sessions to all students in 
Colorado.
    We also continue to graduate more high school students with 
post-secondary credit, work skills and credentials. 53 percent 
of graduating Colorado students took a dual and concurrent 
enrollment course, and we want to grow that number. Colorado is 
also home to CareerWise, which now supports thousands of youth 
apprentices in not just Colorado, but Indiana, New York, DC, 
and Michigan.
    By blurring the lines between high school and higher 
education, we can save students money, help them gain skills, 
and set them up to successfully navigate life. As we do that, 
we need to make higher education more affordable and 
accessible. In Colorado, we have held tuition rates lower than 
inflation for the last few years, and we launched the Zero 
Textbook Challenge, which encourages Colorado institutions to 
expand the use of open educational resources, and eliminate 
textbook costs.
    I also want to applaud the Biden administration's effort to 
increase Pell Grant funding. It is not only about 
affordability, but also about ensuring students get a real 
return on investment, holding schools accountable, and 
protecting students from predatory practices. We need 
transparency so students can make informed decisions about 
where to spend their hard-earned time and money.
    All this work is to ensure that every student can get 
skills and knowledge to find a job that supports them and their 
family and meets the needs of our business community. In 
Colorado we have two open jobs for every unemployed person, 
which is why we are working to expanding training opportunities 
in new and innovative ways.
    For instance, we are now providing free community and 
technical college for students pursuing careers in healthcare, 
with the hope of expanding this to construction, firefighting, 
law enforcement, nursing, and early childhood education. 1,000 
students were trained and entered the workforce within the 
first 3 months of this program.
    We are also in the process of expanding registered 
apprenticeship opportunities, and we created a first of its 
kind opportunity in the health center that integrates 
AmeriCorps and registered apprenticeships. I encourage Congress 
to reauthorize WIOA, so the states can continue directing key 
WIOA investments toward each state's unique, in demand 
workforce needs, including flexibility for key wraparound 
services like transportation and childcare, so people can get 
to work.
    Through all this work, states are leading the charge on 
innovative ways to support students and workers of all ages. We 
need to be bold and continue pursuing new and innovative ways 
to prepare all Americans for success. Let us turn this crisis 
into action. Many states see this as an opportunity to move 
forward and innovate, and I am hopeful that Congress can use 
this momentum to improve quality, equity, access, and 
affordability across education. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Governor Polis follows:]

          Statement of Hon. Jared Polis, Governor of Colorado

    Good morning, Chairwoman Foxx, Ranking Member Scott, and members of 
the Education & Workforce Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to 
testify on the State of Education.
    I have spent much of my career in education, from launching and 
running charter schools and serving on the Colorado State Board of 
Education, to serving in Congress, including on this Committee, where I 
helped to reauthorize the broken No Child Left Behind Act and Workforce 
Innovation and Opportunity Act, among others.
    Today our country faces an education crisis. A crisis in quality, 
equity, in access, and affordability. As leaders, we must do what we 
can to strengthen our public schools, create inclusive settings where 
all students can learn, and empower our educators and school leaders to 
give students the best education possible to prepare every learner for 
success, and power our economy.
    Early Childhood
    That starts with a strong early childhood system. Colorado has made 
incredible progress with free, full-day kindergarten and our new free 
universal preschool program, which launches this fall, and will save 
families at least $6,000 per year.
    K12
    We must also work to make historic investments in our public 
schools. While the pandemic brought forward significant challenges, we 
saw teachers, students, parents, school districts, higher education, 
and business step up in new and innovative ways.
    We also saw unprecedented federal investments from COVID relief 
funds provided through the Governor's Emergency Education Relief (GEER) 
Fund and the Elementary and Secondary Education Relief (ESSER) Fund. 
These funds allowed Democratic and Republican Governors alike to get 
students back into classrooms as quickly and safely as possible.
    In Colorado, we used the lion's share of our ESSER funds to address 
learning loss, like starting the Colorado High-Impact Tutoring program, 
which offered 43,000 hours of tutoring to 3,800 students in its first 
semester and is expanding this school year with the use of additional 
ESSER funds.
    We have used GEER money to create the RISE education fund to invest 
in creative solutions to improve student learning, close equity gaps, 
and increase efficiency across the state, like the creation of a Mobile 
Learning Center housed in a repurposed school bus that brings 
resources, internet, and learning opportunities directly to students in 
mountainous Lake County, CO.
    We also created the Governor's Bright Spot Award to recognize 21 
schools that jumped two or more performance bands on our state 
accountability system since the pandemic began, like Rocky Mountain 
Elementary School in the St. Vrain Valley that implemented high-quality 
hybrid learning, and provided no-cost summer classes that offered 
evidence-based literacy and math instruction.
    Last week I visited Chatfield Elementary School in Grand Junction, 
which improved three performance bands by focusing on professional 
development, aligning classroom work to academic standards, and 
providing additional support for struggling students.
    We saw similar innovations across states, like Indiana's Explore, 
Engage, and Experience Grant that allows students to test out potential 
career pathways, and Washington's Reimagine Education Project, which 
integrates social emotional learning into alternative learning 
structures.
    Now states are focused on improving student achievement, 
particularly around math, while creating safe and productive learning 
environments for every student, including major expansions to critical 
mental health support, like IMatter, an American Rescue Plan Act-funded 
program that offers six free counseling sessions to all students in 
Colorado.
    We also continue to graduate more high school students with 
postsecondary credit, work skills, and credentials.
    53% of Colorado students took a dual and concurrent enrollment 
course, and continued investments will help this number grow. Colorado 
is also home to CareerWise, which now supports thousands of youth 
apprentices in not just Colorado, but Indiana, New York, DC, and 
Michigan.
    By blurring the lines between high school and higher education, we 
can save students money, help them gain skills, and set them up to 
better navigate postsecondary education.
    Higher Education
    As we do that, we must find ways to make higher education more 
accessible and affordable. The number of students pursuing 
postsecondary education is declining, and it is largely due to high 
costs. Bureau of Labor and Statistics data show that ``between 2006 and 
2016, the Consumer Price Index for tuition and fees increased 63%, 
compared to 21% for other goods and services''
    That is why we have proposed a new scholarship to support any 
graduate in the class of 2024 who is pursuing postsecondary education, 
and launched the Zero Textbook Challenge, which encourages Colorado 
institutions to expand the use of open educational resources.
    I also want to applaud the Biden Administration's efforts to pause 
student loan payments during the pandemic, provide widespread debt 
relief, and continue to increase Pell Grant funding.
    It is not only about affordability, it is about ensuring students 
get a real return on investment, holding schools accountable, and 
protecting students from predatory practices.
    We need full transparency so that students can make informed 
decisions about where to spend their hard-earned time and money.
    Workforce
    All of this work is to ensure that every student can get skills and 
knowledge to find a job that supports them and their family and meets 
the needs of our businesses.
    In Colorado, we have two open jobs for every unemployed person, 
which is why we are working to expand training opportunities in new and 
innovative ways.
    We are providing free community and technical college for students 
pursuing careers in health care, with the hope of expanding to 
construction, firefighting, law enforcement, nursing, and early 
childhood education. 1,000 students were trained and entered the 
workforce within the first 3 months of this program.
    Similarly, Texas has set a goal for 60% of Texans ages 25-64 to 
earn industry-recognized credentials through their Credentials of 
Purpose and Value program.
    We are also in the process of expanding registered apprenticeship 
opportunities, and have created a first-of-its-kind opportunity in the 
public health sector that fully integrates AmeriCorps and a Registered 
Apprenticeship.
    I call on Congress to reauthorize WIOA so that states like Colorado 
can continue directing key WIOA investments towards its unique in-
demand workforce needs, including key wraparound services.
    Conclusion
    Through all of this work, states are leading the charge on 
innovative ways to support students and workers of all ages.
    The COVID pandemic exposed many of the cracks within our systems, 
showing us that we cannot rely on the old way of doing things. We have 
to be bold and continue pursuing new and innovative ways to prepare all 
Americans for success.
    Let us turn this crisis into action.
    Many states have seen this as an opportunity to move forward, and I 
am hopeful Congress can use this momentum to increase equity, quality, 
access, and affordability across education.
    Thank you.
                                 ______
                                 
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. Finally, we will hear 
from Mr. Pulsipher.

  STATEMENT OF SCOTT PULSIPHER, PRESIDENT, WESTERN GOVERNORS 
                           UNIVERSITY

    Mr. Pulsipher. Chairwoman Foxx, Ranking Member Scott, and 
members of the committee, I am grateful for your convening this 
hearing and for the opportunity to offer perspective on the 
State of higher education. WGU is a private, non-profit 
institution founded in 1997 by a bipartisan group of 19 
Governors, who saw the opportunity to leverage technology and 
competency-based education to improve access, quality, and 
outcomes in higher education.
    Our mission is to change lives for the better by creating 
pathways to opportunity. Today we served more than 200,000 
students and graduate 45 to 50,000 during an academic year. 
Two-thirds of who belong to one or more historically 
underserved populations. The challenges plaguing our higher 
education system are many and complex, to which our best 
response will be guided by the simple principle creating value 
for students.
    This became abundantly clear when attending my first WGU 
commencement as graduates shared the journeys they took, and 
the hurdles they overcame to achieve their degrees. Many were 
in their 30's and often accompanied by both parents and 
children, reflecting upon this in the nearly 50 commencements 
since.
    It is clear that for many, education is far more meaningful 
than a coming-of-age experience, or some external validation. 
It is a gateway to a better life for themselves and their 
families. That is the promise we all should expect of higher 
education.
    This is not to diminish the role of research universities, 
nor imply that the purpose of higher education should be 
reduced to job training, nor is it to force tradeoff between 
advancing citizenry or career enablement, as both are 
fundamental for the well-being of well-functioning individuals 
and society.
    I would argue that the challenges today center primarily 
around the growing failure to live up to education's promise as 
a great equalizer. Indeed, data show our most vulnerable 
students are disproportionately likely to leave college with 
considerable debt and no degree, or at least one that took far 
more than 4 years to earn.
    Post-college earnings for low-income students are generally 
lower than those of their wealthier peers. Over the last 50 
years, while completion for those from the top income quartile 
has increased from 40 to 62 percent, for their peers from the 
bottom income quartile it has barely risen. From the bottom 
income quartile it has barely risen from 6 to 13 percent.
    We are leaving too much talent on the table and paying 
dearly for it, both in skyrocketing costs, and in persisting 
workforce gaps. Policymakers have worked to mitigate the risks 
that students experience from a poor return on investment. 
Instead of triaging a flawed system with well intentioned, but 
short-sighted solutions, we need to address the root problem. 
Higher education has been engineered beyond its primary 
objective, enabling economic and social mobility for its 
students.
    Institutions contend with competing priorities, established 
budget mechanisms and conflicting incentives. It can favor 
selectivity, constraint enrollment, drive up costs, and 
propagate outdated models, layer in regulatory prescription and 
cultural nostalgia, and change becomes challenging to the point 
of impossible.
    WGU was founded by design to better serve those poorly 
served, underserved, or not served at all by conventional 
options, with a focus on access and outcomes. 26 years later 
WGU has graduated more than 300,000 individuals who are 
employed at rates at or above national averages, with income 
gains one-third higher, who report higher levels of engagement 
in their jobs and in overall well-being.
    Many aspects of WGU are unique, but our success in serving 
students may not be. Congress can promote greater clarity, 
purpose, and expectations in higher education, whereas much of 
current policy is left at highly regulated as to process, and 
unaccountable as to student outcomes. Safeguards are certainly 
needed, but safeguards that regulate inputs mostly reinforce 
convention and constraint innovation that holds the promise of 
enabling the very outcomes that safeguards intend to secure.
    Congress can help flip this paradigm with an emphasis 
toward enabling innovation with accountability, particularly in 
access. Enabling the future workforce starts with dramatically 
expanding enrollment, and never before have we had such 
powerful tools as technology, the internet, and new models of 
learning, including competency-based education.
    Relevancy--ensuring credentials and earned and skills keep 
pace with the future work, and new credentials and pathways can 
be developed appropriately sized and timed to an individual's 
career development and workforce needs.
    Costs and value--improving affordability by incentivizing 
lower costs and better choices, rather than how to pay for ever 
increasing costs, and holding institutions and students for 
credential attainment and value. Ultimately, outcomes are 
paramount, as access without attainment is an empty promise, 
especially when underwritten by the taxpayer, and when students 
hold the debt.
    Quality is not a matter of mode, method, or model, but 
completion and value for students. It is much a moral hazard to 
fund access without completion, as it is to achieve high 
completion rates by precluding access. With the proper 
incentives in place Congress can help reinvest a system that is 
accessible, affordable, completable, and relevant to 
opportunities and workforce needs.
    Most importantly, we can dispel the disheartening claim 
repeated by far too many that college is not for me. Education 
is and must be for everyone, both for the sake of the 
individual and our whole society. Thank you for the opportunity 
to testify, and I now yield to the committee.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Pulsipher follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairwoman Foxx. Again, thank you all very much for your 
very enlightening comments. Under Committee Rule 9(a) we will 
now question witnesses under the 5-minute rule. I will wait to 
ask my questions, and therefore recognize Mr. Wilson from South 
Carolina for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Wilson. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and best wishes on 
your service as Chairwoman.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you.
    Mr. Wilson. We are just so happy to have you. Thank you to 
our witnesses for being here today. It is especially good to 
see an alumnus of college, Governor Polis, although he is going 
to be in a way violating union work rules with a big smile he 
has that indicates he is happy to be here, but he cannot wait 
to get home, and so best wishes on your service.
    Mrs. Gentles, you have cited what is going right in 
American education. You call Arizona the gold standard for 
education and freedom as the passage of the Universal School 
Choice Bill last year. Can you explain how the law works, and 
how you consider it the gold standard?
    Mrs. Gentles. Yes. Arizona has had a program called 
Empowerment Scholarship Accounts in place for over 10 years, 
and these provide State created savings accounts that can be 
used for eligible education purposes for K-12. These can be 
tuition, but also tutoring, therapies, textbooks, and if the 
funds are left over they can be even rolled over and used for 
college.
    The program was expanded for universal eligibility, setting 
a model for other education savings accounts in the country. 
There are over 10 states with these programs now, and we think 
that this is the future because it offers control, freedom, and 
flexibility for parents.
    Mr. Wilson. Well, it is really a great model for the rest 
of the country. Congratulations. Dr. Sullivan, you discussed 
how the rapid developments of technology and increasing skills 
demands in the modern workforce. I am really grateful in my 
home State of South Carolina. We have been promoting 
technology. It has resulted in my hometown of Lexington, South 
Carolina, the largest Michelin tire company corporation 
investment in the world.
    Additionally, it has led to our State now being the leading 
manufacturer exporter of tires. Then with success in our State, 
with Governor Carroll Campbell of BMW, we are now the leading 
with Volvo and Mercedes plants now, we are the leading export 
of cars, but it is due to the technology and the technical 
schools that we have that made this possible.
    With the development of the workforce development system, 
it has to evolve. How can the workforce system better embrace 
technological innovations to increase efficiency and improve 
the services available to job seekers?
    Mr. Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Wilson, and congratulations to 
South Carolina on the incredible, great work that you have 
done. We have been on the other end of some of those 
competitions that you have won, and we are very proud to see 
the progress going on in South Carolina, and great work by your 
community and technical college system there to make sure that 
the State of South Carolina has the workforce talent that they 
need in order to be able to support those businesses once they 
arrive.
    It is important to note that I mentioned 60 million adults 
in this economy with a high school diploma or less. Each year 
in the State of Louisiana we graduate about 40,000 kids from 
high school a year, yet we have 1.1 million working age adults 
who have a high school diploma or less. Oftentimes, they are 
the same parents to the young people that we were just 
describing.
    From our perspective, we must build in continuous 
opportunities for on ramp and for individuals to get into 
education, short-term training to get the education that they 
need to be able to take on that first job, but then also a 
great relationship with the employers, like the ones that you 
mentioned, to help advance the education of that individual so 
they understand the technology.
    Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much. Hey, we enjoy the 
competition with you, but it is not fair when you bring people 
to Mardi Gras season, it has an unfair advantage. Mr. 
Pulsipher, you were going through the Western Governor's 
University's responsible borrowing initiative. Can you go 
through even further, how does this benefit students?
    Mr. Pulsipher. Yes. Thank you for that question 
Representative Wilson. The responsible party initiative is 
simply based upon the principle that if you give information--
if you give better information to individuals, they make better 
choices. What we do is we actually expose to our individuals 
what the total cost of attending and completing their degree 
will be at WGU and make recommendations to them as to how much 
they should borrow.
    What we have actually found is that, you know, if only two-
thirds of the students actually follow that recommendation, and 
another 5 to 10 percent end up actually choosing no Federal aid 
whatsoever. What that has allowed WGU graduates to achieve is 
that we have reduced the borrowing by 30 percent in terms of 
debt per graduate. It has declined by 30 percent since the 
Responsible Borrowing Initiative, and we have actually also 
reduced the total number of students who are attending WGU, and 
their actual use of financial aid to do so.
    Mr. Wilson. Well, thank each of you for coming, and again, 
Governor, we are happy to have you here. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Wilson. Now I recognize Ms. 
Wilson for the purpose of questioning the witnesses.
    Ms. Wilson. Thank you, Chairwoman Foxx and Ranking Member 
Scott, for convening today's hearing. Last night during his 
State of the Union address President Biden said let us give 
public school teachers a raise. They deserve a raise. Everyone 
in the chamber gave a standing ovation. Everyone on both sides. 
I could not agree more.
    Later today, I am introducing a bill with Mr. Bowman, and 
with the vast majority of the Democrats on this committee to do 
just that, the American Teacher Act. The American Teacher Act 
sets a $60,000.00 minimum teacher's salary nationwide and 
provides a cost of living adjustment for teachers making above 
$60,000.00.
    Low teacher pay is one of the many factors contributing to 
teacher shortages across the Nation. Chairwoman Foxx got it 
right, our education system is in fact in crisis. We have 
thousands of unstaffed classrooms, partly because of low 
teacher wages. As a former Miami-Dade County teacher, 
principal, and school board member, promoting the vitality of 
our Nation's education system is my top priority.
    I see the struggle to recover from COVID-19 pandemic in my 
community every day, from elementary school classrooms to 
college lecture halls, that is why Democrats put a plan forward 
to help our schools during the 117th Congress. In Miami-Dade 
County public schools, even with Federal support, officials are 
still grappling with teacher shortages amidst a growing migrant 
population in the region.
    A recent report from Broward County schools revealed a 
disturbing increase in behavioral incidents connected to COVID 
related trauma and stress. Despite these challenges, my 
Republican colleagues have decided to weaponize their newfound 
majority to politicize American education.
    Proposed Republican reforms, including the Parents Bill of 
Rights, are nothing more than political posturing. These 
proposals are nothing more than an appeal to the most radical 
sectors of our Nation. They fail to address the needs of 
students and staff across the education spectrum, leaving them 
ill-equipped and under-prepared for a post pandemic economy.
    The democratic members of this committee are here to 
continue the work we started in the 117th Congress, with one 
goal in mind--strengthen our education system. Remember, this 
is only the beginning. Democrats will stay the course. We will 
fight this right-wing extremist agenda. Our amazing students, 
teachers, college professors, school personnel and parents 
deserve nothing less.
    With that, I have a few questions. Welcome back Governor 
Polis. I sat next to you on this committee. You said in your 
testimony that we are in a crisis of equity and access to 
higher education, and I agree. A large component of that is 
cost. The cost of a higher education degree has skyrocketed, 
and students have become saddled with debt.
    I am pleased that the Biden administration has taken 
significant efforts to address this crisis, including one-time 
debt relief, changes to the income driven repayment program, 
and changes to public service loan forgiveness programs. 
Unfortunately, my colleagues have slammed these efforts as a 
back door scheme from the Democrats. I believe these are 
necessary to fix a broken long system.
    Why are these administrative actions necessary for 
borrowers, and what can Congress do to build on the 
administration's work to address some of the biggest issues 
with the loan system?
    Governor Polis. Thank you, Representative Wilson. The cost 
of a college education has rendered it less accessible now, 
rather than more accessible for many Americans. It has 
increased at a higher rate than inflation for much of the last 
several decades. We are grateful for Federal programs that are 
able to help students meet the costs and break down those 
barriers.
    Those include Pell Grants, and I am very supportive of the 
Biden administration's efforts to increase Pell Grants, as well 
as efforts to support innovation and excellence. This work of 
making sure that we align investment to outcomes, and making 
sure that students receive value for the education they get is 
also important.
    It is important to look at the cost, and at the same time 
to look at the benefit, and make sure that any investments that 
the Federal Government is making, as well as we're doing this 
in Colorado with our State investments, make sure that the 
benefits exceed the costs of the investment that we are making 
and helping the students achieve success.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. I now recognize Mr. 
Walberg from Michigan for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Walberg. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thanks to the 
panel for being here, including our colleague who is still our 
colleague, just on a different committee. One of the biggest 
drivers of the cost of higher education is the fact that 
graduate students have no limit on borrowing.
    Studies show many master's degrees do not have an equal 
return on investment. In fact, one study found approximately 40 
percent provided a negative return on investment. Mr. 
Pulsipher, you mentioned in your testimony that your 
institution has focused on delivering a valuable education to 
its students, by focusing on degrees and certifications that 
lead to in demand careers. That is interesting--while keeping 
costs low for students. That is interesting as well.
    Can you elaborate a little bit more on how you create these 
programs, specifically, while keeping the costs low?
    Mr. Pulsipher. Yes. Thank you for that question 
Representative Walberg. We start with the fundamental principle 
that education has to be a path to opportunity. We start from 
that opportunity and work backward if you will. We directly 
identify those skills and requirements that are needed in the 
workforce, particularly the future workforce.
    That can come from partnerships with a company called Light 
Cast. You can do a great library and catalogue of all the 
skills that are needed. Once we identify kind of macro demand 
out there, we then start working directly with employers and 
associations that represent that topical, or kind of that field 
of study and domain of expertise, such that we are gaining that 
input directly into the design and development of our 
curriculum so that we know that fundamentally that when our 
students complete those programs, that they're actually ready, 
and possess the skills and competencies that are needed to be 
successful in the workforce.
    This is why 98 percent of our employers are hiring WGU 
graduates again, and they rate them as highly skilled, or 
highly prepared for the workforce, as do the students and 
graduates themselves. As it relates to making it affordable, we 
have something that addresses both the tuition and the cost of 
completing a program, but also can accelerate the time to 
complete it.
    We simply want first and foremost, to keep our tuition 
costs at under $4,000.00 for a bachelor's degree per a 6-month 
term, not for the competency based approach, it actually allows 
individuals to go at a pace that is right for them, such that 
in 6 months students can complete as many courses as they are 
able. We do not track seat time in the course.
    What we track is competence to that, such that on average 
our bachelor's degrees--our graduates of bachelor's degrees are 
completing in two and a half years at a cost of less than 
$20,000.00 total.
    Mr. Walberg. Oh, that is a savings. If it produces the 
quality, and you have indicated that it has, as a result of 
what the employers are saying. I appreciate that. Let me move 
on to another track. Parental involvement in the education of 
their children, and I see that as good. With all due respect, I 
do not see that as anything other than how it ought to be. It 
is paramount to a student's success.
    However, in recent years we have seen a push by teachers' 
unions, and school districts, sadly, to exclude parents from 
the education of their children. This is why I recently 
introduced the Protect Kids Act with Senator Tim Scott. Ms. 
Gentles, you noted in your written testimony the harmful 
impacts of ideological indoctrination in our schools, 
especially on young children.
    Do you believe this is driving a wedge between parents and 
their own children?
    Mrs. Gentles. Well absolutely, and it is designed to. The 
idea of telling children that their parents----
    Mr. Walberg. It is designed to?
    Mrs. Gentles. Yes. When we are talking about gender 
ideology specifically, there is an intention there to tell 
children things that are biologically false, that a child could 
be born in the wrong body, or a child might be born a boy, a 
girl, both, or neither. Then instruct the child that if their 
parent questions them on this, that they bring that information 
home, that their parent is a bigot, and that their parent is 
hateful.
    If the child chooses to choose one of the 70 plus gender 
identities that are taught in school, that--and if the parent 
questions that, then the parent must want them dead. There is a 
lot that is always pushed out there about suicide, or the 
parent will kick them out. The child will be homeless.
    There is absolutely a wedge that is being driven. Then when 
we talk about gender support plans, that is intentionally 
hiding information, so it creates a secret between the school 
and the child that they are keeping from the parent. That is a 
very clear wedge.
    Mr. Walberg. Yes, where a disagreement, or not to keep 
secrets causes great concerns. Would you say that it would be 
important then if the schools do this intentionally, keeping 
those secrets they should lose their Federal funding?
    Mrs. Gentles. Actions have to be taken. It has to be sent 
in a very clear message to districts that--and to schools, that 
this is not acceptable. We see State legislation that is 
addressing this, and I understand that you and Senator Scott 
have introduced legislation as well. Those messages have to be 
sent very clearly, that gender support plans, keeping secrets 
from parents, pushing children down a path to medical 
transition must stop. There must be a consequence.
    Mr. Walberg. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you so much. Ms. Bonamici, I now 
recognize you for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Chair Foxx and Ranking Member 
Scott. I want to start by expressing my strong opposition to 
the notion that the solution to the so-called crisis in 
American education is to funnel taxpayer dollars to 
unaccountable private schools, and for-profit charter schools. 
Voucher programs of all types, whether they are traditional 
vouchers, education savings accounts, or tax credit 
scholarships, undermine the effectiveness of public education.
    Research has shown repeatedly that vouchers do not improve 
student achievement, and when policymakers make a conscious 
decision to give coupons to certain students to attend private 
schools, their message to the millions of students still 
attending public schools is you do not matter, it is not 
important to use to equip your school to serve you, and all 
students well.
    A real crisis in American education is that many of my 
colleagues in Congress and in State legislatures, are applying 
a device of strategy rooted in discrimination toward an 
exclusion of LGBTQ students, and students with disabilities, 
trying to censor and silence content that does not fit their 
political ideology and agenda, defunding public schools, and 
failing to address gun violence.
    I spent more than 15 years as an active parent volunteer in 
public schools, and an advocate for public education. I was in 
many schools, many classrooms, and many conversations. We can 
all agree that parent and family engagement is an instrumental 
part of creating a safe, inclusive, and supportive public 
school environment for all students.
    I welcome the opportunity to work with my colleagues on the 
other side of the aisle to uplift best practices, evidence 
based practices in family engagement, rather than pit parents 
against their kid's educators and schools.
    Governor Polis, it is great to see you. Welcome back. I am 
grateful for your leadership in closing the opportunity gap for 
students in Colorado and in helping students recover lost 
learning time from the pandemic. You understand that developing 
parent and family engagement strategies is a requirement under 
ESEA for schools receiving Federal funding.
    I have a two-part question, and this is my first question. 
Why is it important for educators to authentically and 
meaningfully engage with parents and families, and how are 
Colorado's school districts implementing parent and family 
engagement strategies that reach culturally, linguistically and 
socio-economically diverse parents and families, and that 
support the health and well-being of LGBTQ students?
    Governor Polis. Thank you, Representative Bonamici. 
Involving parents is absolutely critical to success. When you 
look at best practices at the site level, principal, school 
leaders, at the classroom level teachers, one of the big 
markers for success is how well parents are included in that 
process. I have seen school leaders do inventory of skills of 
parents and find ways that parents can supplement and provide 
additional learning opportunities for kids.
    At the classroom level, making sure that parents are 
partners, and know what their students are assigned for 
homework. A lot of new technologies have enabled more 
involvement with parents on a regular basis, which is 
absolutely wonderful toward achieving success.
    We do it through conventional structures, like PTAs and 
PTOs, but also at the classroom level in new and innovative 
ways. When you look at the bright spot schools that achieved 
two bands of achievement during the pandemic, which is a very 
challenging time, every school had their own localized 
strategy. One common theme across many of them were successful 
strategies to involve parents, and sometimes even the community 
at large in the education.
    We appreciate the Federal investment, and helping to forge 
parent, student teacher partnerships with all learners, 
including learners from diverse backgrounds, which in a State 
like Colorado and many states across the country, often means 
you need to look at different languages. When you have parents 
that speak Spanish, or Vietnamese, or any other language, and 
you can't always just rely on the student as that translator.
    It is often too much to put on the shoulders of a third or 
fourth grader, and the student itself might not be fully 
proficient in both languages. Making sure the schools have 
access to not just the second most language. In our State we 
are providing the access in Spanish is relatively easy. We have 
elementary schools in Aurora, Colorado that have 28 languages 
that parents speak at that school, and making sure it is 
successfully----
    Ms. Bonamici. I do not want to cut you off, but I just want 
to ask you about--you said you visited Chat. Is it Chatfield 
Elementary School?
    Governor Polis. Yes.
    Ms. Bonamici. You could tell when you enter a school, you 
know, there is a joy of learning, and you know, the students 
thriving. Can you tell us a little bit about the visit, and 
elaborate on how COVID relief funds helped make improvements 
possible, and helped your State focus on professional 
development for Chatfield.
    Governor Polis. Chatfield Elementary is a school in a lower 
income area of Grand Junction, Colorado, Clifton area. It was 
in turnaround status, which is our lowest performance status 3 
years ago. They were able to improve to above average status 
over 3 years.
    What did they do? Really of course, as always, the 
leadership and the team of educators play a key role. They 
better aligned their classroom practices to the standards. They 
engaged in extensive professional development. The ESSR funds 
were used by the school to provide literacy coaches and math 
coaches, and they were able to improve, over the last 3 years, 
to be above average. Three bands of performance over the last 3 
years, which is quite remarkable.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you so much. I see I am over time. I 
yield back. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Foxx. You are forgiven. Mr. Allen from Georgia, 
you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Allen. Yes. Obviously, I thank you Chairwoman Foxx, and 
thank you to our witnesses. COVID shined a bright light on 
education in this country, and certainly a very bright light on 
the parents and their choices of what the best educational 
environment would be like for their children.
    In the 12th District of Georgia, we are a proud home of the 
Heritage Academy, an independent school that offers crisis 
centered education, and then we have the Dublin city schools, a 
rural public school district that has implemented charter 
systems. Dublin City schools offers the choice between two 
themed elementary schools for specific learning paths, a 
science technology engineering arts and math, or STEAM school, 
and a leadership in environmental awareness in public service, 
or LEAP school.
    In fact, I was there when the young people recited Steven 
Covey's seven habits for success. It was impressive. I cannot 
recite those. We have clearly seen the advantages to school 
choice in our district. Ms. Gentles, can you explain some of 
the barriers that we face as far as school choice that we have 
here in our district in Georgia?
    Ms. Gentles. Well, there has been a great expansion of 
school choice over the last three decades. 45 states have 
charter school laws. Many states have open enrollment. Magnet 
school programs, which provide public school choice, and then 
of course, over 30 states have 65 or so private school choice 
programs. There is a wide array of options out there.
    There are numerous studies showing that there are great 
benefits, specifically to the private school choice program, 26 
out of 29 studies have shown that those programs benefit the 
public school students around them, so we definitely want to 
overcome any barriers that are there because these are 
beneficial programs.
    Barriers in place seem to be myths. There are a lot of 
myths around school choice. I think it is important for people 
to recognize that what is said is often just a talking point, 
and not true. What needs to happen is that people, especially 
policymakers, need to talk to the families--often low income 
families, who are benefiting from school choice programs, and 
whose lives have been changed, and recognize that those myths 
need to be set aside, and those barriers need to be overcome, 
and those policies need to be implemented.
    Mr. Allen. Heritage Academy is an example of a low income 
school where the kids are really rock stars, and doing great. 
Dr. Sullivan, you mentioned the importance of partnering with 
employers to prepare students with the right skills. In our 
district Tech Strong specialized vehicles, or better known as 
E-Z-GO, has partnered with the Richmond County School system to 
implement the reaching potential through manufacturing an RPM 
program to offer on the job training and employment 
opportunities, really to take kids from low-income 
neighborhoods, and just show them that you know, the American 
dream is for everybody.
    I come from a business background in construction, and I 
believe that some skills are best learned through real world 
experiences, and I am proud that the 12th District of Georgia 
is not waiting until after high school graduation to give these 
kids the tools and the ambition they need to succeed.
    Can you discuss how these types of partnerships with 
employers have created work-based learning opportunities for 
students and how Congress can ensure that work based learning 
opportunities are available to job seekers around the country?
    Mr. Sullivan. Yes sir. Thank you, Mr. Allen. I would just 
point out that I think we all can agree that working and 
earning a living sooner, rather than later is a good thing. 
Ensuring that people are in a training program, an education 
program that also allows them to be able to work and make a 
living, perhaps it is a registered apprenticeship, perhaps it 
is an earn while you learn model.
    Regardless, starting with the business partner, and 
beginning with the end in mind. The end in mind being the 
skillset that the individual needs in order to be able to go to 
work in that environment. It doesn't stop there. That is the 
beginning. As we look at the student population, our average 
age student is 27--27. A full decade has passed for many of 
these students by the time they get to that employment 
circumstance.
    I would just urge that Congress continue down the path of 
ensuring that it is about the value proposition. Many of the 
students that show up at our colleges, they only have six, 
eight, 10 weeks to get in, get the training they need, get out 
and make a living. But we also have to ensure that they are 
able to come back. They are able to continue that growth along 
the career path that is going to help them to sustain their 
families.
    Mr. Allen. Thank you very much, and Madam Chair, I yield 
back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Allen. Mr. Takano, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Madam Chair. I have to say I want to 
address my disappointment that extremists are being given a 
platform to push problematic narratives, and misinformation 
about hypothetical issues in order to spread confusion and 
distraction. It is distressing because the very, very young 
people that need our protection because they are the ones that 
are targeted with bullying and harassment.
    As they grow older, even death, they are specifically trans 
minority individuals are specifically the targets of violence. 
Violent murder. It is now more than ever, it is critical for us 
to rise up to support, not scrutinize trans and queer students. 
We must be supportive of their parents as well.
    All students deserve to feel safe, comfortable, and 
supported in their school so they can focus on their education. 
Supportive educators, whether they belong to a teachers' union 
or not, and there are supportive educators who are members of 
unions and supportive educators who are not, but they are 
essential. They are an essential resource for young people, 
especially transgender youth and queer youth who may feel 
isolated and unsafe.
    With that, I just want to return back to the substance of 
why we are here. Governor Polis, welcome back. I want to focus 
on just the tremendous resource that were provided by both 
Republicans and Democrats. The CARES Act was a Republican led 
act. The ARPA was democratic, to meet the needs of states and 
school districts to safely reopen.
    You mentioned some of the things that you have done with 
those resources, but I want to drill down and to the things 
that, you know, the pandemic. Unfortunately, the school 
closures were a result of a very real response to over a 
million of our fellow Americans dying. That is a fact.
    Whether schools should have been opened up earlier, that is 
a matter of debate, but we need to focus on how we help young 
people now adjust to coming back to schools. Can you tell me 
what kind of resources have gone into mental health services, 
and high schools, and kids that were teenagers kept in their 
homes.
    Any teenager, regardless of you know, gender identity, or 
LGBTQ status or whatever, that is a tough time to sort of be 
couped up at home, but tell us about the readjustment that is 
going on in Colorado schools?
    Governor Polis. First of all, I think I speak for really 
all Governors just saying we are grateful for the flexibility, 
as well as superintendents that we had. I think we were able to 
meet local needs in each of the areas across our State very 
effectively, and we appreciate that the aid of both CARES and 
ARPA was allowed to be used to meet the local need, rather than 
a particular program or investment.
    In many areas very simply, extended learning time, which 
means free summer academies for learners that are struggling, 
after school tutoring programs are supported widely with ESSR. 
Through the GEER piece, which we deeply appreciate, we are able 
to design a program that broke down barriers that existed 
between school districts and community colleges, and other 
educational entities to support aligned work toward improving 
student achievement.
    We were also out of the American Rescue Act funds, able to 
fund the IMatter Program, which is providing mental health 
support. Every Colorado student has access to six free 
counseling sessions. One noteworthy aspect is the universality 
of it. They can be virtual, and they are in many places, areas 
where otherwise students might not be able to access a mental 
healthcare provider, or someone to talk to.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you. Thank you, Governor. Mr. Pulsipher, 
I have been interested in--well, as a former credential creep, 
I have seen professions, professional sort of certifications. I 
see the academic work you've got to do just to sort of expand. 
Physician assistant programs for example, I had one in my 
community college that you could get a physician's assistant 
certificate, or certification in 2 years.
    Often people coming out of the military, they came to the 
community college just for that reason. Then the accrediting 
body, the independent accrediting body, said you had to make it 
a master's program. I am wondering if there is a way for us to 
reverse that trend because I am interested in people being able 
to get high-paying credentials, but what do we really need to 
do to educate that person?
    Governor Polis. We would welcome you to take a look at 
Federal involvement around expanding the scope of practice so 
people can practice with the training they have. We have been 
very thoughtful about applying a skill's based hiring model to 
the State, as well as expanding the scope of practice for nurse 
assistants and others, so they can practice fully up to their 
level of training, and do not require additional college just 
for the sake of college.
    We would welcome increased Federal interest in that, and we 
look forward to visiting with you off line about that.
    Mr. Takano. Okay. I meant that for--thank you, Governor 
Polis. I meant that for Mr. Pulsipher, but my time is running 
out, and I wish--I will talk to you both.
    Chairwoman Foxx. I will allow Mr. Pulsipher to answer the 
question since there was a misunderstanding.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Mr. Pulsipher. Thank you, Representative Takano, thank you, 
Chairwoman as well. I think we would have to agree with you on 
that point, which is that the better we can do to design 
learning outcomes that directly map to the skills that are 
needed in the workforce, and make sure that in fact individuals 
who are traversing those programs, are assessed against their 
proficiency against that.
    That we want to make sure there is more traversable, more 
accessible, and that individuals can get into the workforce 
sooner rather than later. There is certainly, even the 
bachelor's degree notion itself, this idea that you have to 
have 120 credits of learning before you are actually ready for 
the opportunities, like that itself is actually a pretty heavy 
lift, and we have seen that creeping go up in teacher 
preparation programs where it is very difficult to even deliver 
teacher prep in a 4-year program.
    That is being done by states, and you know, and different 
bodies in nursing and healthcare, and places like that. That is 
troubling as you consider the costs and the readiness of the 
graduates that we are trying to get through those programs.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. I now recognize 
Congressman Banks from this great State of Indiana.
    Mr. Banks. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Foxx. I thank him for his patience.
    Mr. Banks. Thank you. Governor, I used to live in Colorado. 
I always respected you, long before you were elected to office. 
You were not afraid to go against the grain and stand out and 
talk about education reform, charter schools, school choice, 
and that is something I have always admired about you.
    I was the first Member of Congress during the pandemic to 
introduce a bill to keep schools open during the pandemic, and 
I watched closely what was going on in Colorado at the time. 
You were outspoken as well about keeping our kids in school 
where they belong.
    You took a lot of criticism for it. In fact, back in a 
press conference in July 2020, you were quoted saying, ``I 
believe we cannot interrupt education. We cannot sacrifice our 
future, and our children's future just because of the 
pandemic.'' You took a lot of heat and criticism for saying 
that. The teachers' unions howled about it.
    The Colorado Education Association expressed their great 
disappointment in you for saying that, and they were outraged 
at your decision to keep schools open. Obviously, we learned a 
lot of lessons during the pandemic, but when it comes to 
keeping our kids in school do you feel vindicated by that 
decision, looking backward? Some of the lessons that you 
learned from going against the grain, going against the 
teachers' union, and the criticism of some in the political 
class, to keep our kids in the classroom?
    Governor Polis. Well, thank you, and again congratulations 
on Indian's Explore, Engage and Experience Grant funded through 
the American Rescue Act funds. It was a difficult situation in 
that there were multiple constituencies. You had parents, some 
of whom wanted to send their kids back to school, some of them 
who were not yet ready to do that and wanted to continue 
online.
    You had teachers ready to return to the classroom, eager to 
return to the classroom. You had other teachers, some of them 
with pre-existing health conditions that were not. We tried to 
work with our school districts as best we could to return in 
person instruction. What does that mean?
    We had a program where we offered, for instance, free masks 
to every teacher and every student who wanted them, as a way to 
encourage students and classes to return. The majority of our 
school districts were back all of the 2020 school year. Like in 
a lot of states there were some of the larger municipal 
districts that took a few more months to fully return to in 
person instruction.
    We wanted to be partners with parents, with teachers, with 
school leaders, and what do you need to be able to get back to 
the classroom so that we can continue to move forward.
    Mr. Banks. You wrote a letter to Education Secretary 
Cardona last April denouncing changes proposed by the Biden 
administration of Federal rules to make it harder for charter 
schools to get startup grants. You followed that up with an op 
ed in the Washington Post titled, ``The Education Department's 
fix for Charter Schools is Misguided.''
    You made the case for charter schools by saying they are 
some of the most innovative, accessible, and successful schools 
in Colorado, and across the country, and that we should support 
charter schools, and that the Biden administration's effort is 
undermining the success of charter schools.
    You know Governor, I could not agree with you more on that. 
Do you stand by what you wrote in that letter, and the article 
in the Washington Post?
    Governor Polis. Charter schools mean different things in 
different states because the different states have different 
authorization laws. The lens that I really tried to frame this 
crisis, quality, access, equity, and affordability. Done right, 
public charter schools can contribute to quality, to access, to 
equity, and affordability.
    While I did not think that the change in the rules were 
necessary, I was pleased the Department of Education did 
incorporate many of the comments, and critics like myself 
included, to make the changes more workable to help support new 
charter schools.
    Mr. Banks. What else should the Biden administration do to 
support charter schools?
    Governor Polis. You know I would encourage the 
administration to really lean into innovation in all its forms, 
as the Obama administration did, and the Trump administration 
did. That means that whether it is an innovative district 
program, a charter school, or a hybrid type program, we should 
support excellence and innovation. Now that also means, of 
course, accountability and quality.
    It does not mean we should be throwing money at programs 
that do not work, but that key role that the Federal Government 
can do is to help to be a catalyst before the schools open and 
get their funding, and that is really what the Charter School 
Innovation Grants are meant to do. Like any public school, they 
are self-sustaining over time.
    Before they come online they often need help, and I think 
that is a very fruitful area to look at investment around how 
we can encourage districts and charter schools to innovate.
    Mr. Banks. Governor, I have three daughters. You have a 
daughter. Do you think it is unfair that biological boys are 
allowed to compete against biological girls in sports?
    Governor Polis. Well, my daughter is 8 years old. She plays 
in Little League baseball in Boulder, Colorado, and it is a co-
ed league. It is probably about 10 percent girls, about 90 
percent boys. She is every bit as competitive as them, and you 
know, some of the girls want to be on the same team. We have 
about half the girls on our team, even though they are about 10 
percent across the league.
    If I was not Governor, or in Congress, I would probably be 
the coach.
    Mr. Banks. Pretty soon your 8-year-old will be 15-16, and I 
wonder how you will feel at that point. With that, Madam Chair, 
I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much Mr. Banks. I now 
recognize Dr. Adams from North Carolina for her 5 minutes.
    Ms. Adams. Thank you, Madam Chair, and congratulations on 
your appointment. You know, as a retired educator of 40 years, 
as a proud mom of a public-school principal, I just want to 
echo the sentiments of my colleague, Ms. Wilson, and President 
Biden last night. Clearly, we have got to do better by our 
teachers.
    Governor Polis, thank you for being here. Welcome back. In 
2019 you announced a road map to build on college affordability 
efforts in Colorado. As an avid supporter of programs like the 
Sea Campus Program, and many of the emergency grant programs 
spurned by Federal COVID relief dollars, I was excited to see 
that one of the strategic goals within this road map is to 
increase college completion.
    As we both know, many students struggle with barriers to 
completion, such as lack of access to childcare services, or 
even struggling to access funding to cover tuition, or last-
minute emergencies. Governor, would you talk a little bit about 
promising efforts institutions in Colorado have used to enhance 
wraparound support services that help students thrive, both 
academically and non-academically?
    Governor Polis. Using American Rescue dollars, we recently, 
last year, made it free to get a community college degree in 
healthcare related fields. We all know the urgent needs of the 
healthcare workforce. That includes EMT, phlebotomists, nurse 
assistant, a number of others. When I went to Community College 
of Aurora to announce that program, one young man shared his 
experience with me.
    He was training to become an EMT. Since we made it free, 
and by the way it is a real free, meaning not only no tuition, 
no textbooks, no fees, it is completely free. He said with the 
money that I saved because this program is free, I was able to 
fix my car to get to college. That is what we mean when we say 
wraparound services.
    It is about how do you get there. If you have a 3-year-old 
kid, how does your kid have childcare so that you can attend 
the program to better yourself and your earning livelihood? We 
have to look at this expansively when we look at barriers. Yes, 
cost is one of them, but it could be something as simple as 
time of day, because you have to have a full-time job during 
the day. You need an evening program.
    You might need childcare. You might need transportation. 
You might need assistance with food. We have a hunger free 
campus's initiative because it is hard enough to learn on a 
full stomach, how hard is it to learn on an empty stomach?
    Those are some of the ideas that we have been able to use 
American Rescue Act funds to pursue.
    Ms. Adams. Great. Thank you very much. Madam Chair, I am 
going to yield back the remainder of my time.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. You get a gold star. 
Mr. Owens, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you. Thank you very much. First of all, I 
wanted to congratulate all of you. This has been well overdue. 
This conversation. This is an area that we have had problems 
for decades, and we are now seeing the results of that. I was 
aware back in 2017, to see reports coming out of the Department 
of Education, that 75 percent of the black boys in the State of 
California could not pass standard reading and writing tests.
    Now unfortunately, as terrible as that news is, it kind of 
went over the head of most people. They were not surprised. 
They just kind of figured that is the way it is. Well, now we 
are seeing across the country the power of the unions that led 
this demise of education and hopes in California was going 
across our country.
    I think it is timely that we are doing this. I think now, 
this country, we are waking up. We do what we do best. We are 
going to win, get our kids back, and give them the chance to 
really believe in the American dream. I want to thank everyone 
here for your background, for your expertise, and for educating 
us and the American people. We are going to get this taken care 
of.
    Mr. Pulsipher, the costs of obtaining post-secondary 
credentials has nearly tripled the rate of inflation over the 
last two decades, forcing students to borrow for degrees 
without any guarantee that it will see a financial return for 
the time and money invested in the program.
    In your testimony you mentioned institutions like students 
and taxpayers, need to have skin in the game when it comes to 
student loans, such as requiring them to reimburse students and 
taxpayers for the share of the financial loss associated with 
non-repayment. How would this such requirement change 
incentives for colleges and universities when it comes to 
degree programs they offer, and the price that they charge 
students?
    How would this improve the value proposition to post-
education, post-secondary education?
    Mr. Pulsipher. Thank you for that question, Representative 
Owens. Fundamentally, I think if we believe that higher 
education is intended to be a path to opportunity, and enable 
the economic and mobility of the students it serves, there are 
probably two parts to that question. First and foremost, are 
institutions held accountable to providing and developing 
programs that actually map to workforce opportunities?
    That also, by the way, includes liberal education, whether 
it is in humanities, or languages, et cetera. It is like you 
still have to design those in a way that you are also intending 
to increase the readiness of the graduates in those programs 
for the work.
    If the other part of that equation is what is the 
investment we are actually making, asking the students to make 
in that program. When you have institutions, or you are 
expecting institutions, requiring institutions to have greater 
skin in the game, they are going to--is going to force greater 
accountability to designing and develop programs that are 
relevant to the future work, and to also keep their costs in 
check.
    Right now, there is no check against the cost of delivering 
education, such that you have seen as you pointed out, that the 
cost of attending a completed degree has risen to more than 
twice the rate of inflation for many decades now, since 1980. 
If the average cost of requiring a bachelor's degree is nearing 
$100,000.00 of the outcomes, the value, like how many jobs are 
worth it to make that kind of investment?
    We can certainly find ways by which we hold institutions to 
greater accountability for both the cost of completing the 
credential, and that those credentials are relevant to the 
opportunity.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you. Dr. Sullivan, I agree with the 
workforce system must do a better job to get Americans off the 
sidelines, equipping them with the skills needed to succeed in 
today's economy. For more than two decades Utah has integrated 
their workforce development system with other safety net 
programs to provide unemployed workers a streamlined way to 
access the support they need to secure jobs.
    Can you discuss how strong regional, and statewide 
coordination between workforce development and human services 
providers can improve outcomes for the individuals they serve, 
what are the updates on WIOA that are needed to lead more 
states to pursue innovative approaches to workforce planning 
and service delivery?
    Mr. Sullivan. Sorry. Thank you for the question. I think 
the integration between services that are provided, oftentimes 
we provide the services to individuals that are not necessarily 
under WIOA. They may fall under a separate portion of State 
government, a separate policy act, but the coordination has to 
be there. Not just simply the agencies working together, but 
also data.
    While we continue to provide the privacy that is necessary, 
but also ensure that we are able to provide the benefits, the 
wraparound services that you heard the Governor talk about a 
few minutes ago. I think what we should focus on is to look 
back to see what students are doing as a result of some of the 
lack of coordination that is going on.
    Today we may hear that enrollment is down in 2-year 
colleges. The fact of the matter is enrollment is down in 
credit enrolled programs. The traditional programs. Students 
are showing up at our doorstep in long lines because they want 
to be a part of a short-term workforce opportunity that 
provides that value proposition that you just heard from 
President Pulsipher.
    The value proposition that gets them into the workforce in 
a shortened period of time. We cannot sustain individuals for 4 
years while they go through degree programs. They simply need 
the education and skills to get into the workforce, and then 
education becomes a little bit different than what we have seen 
in the past. It becomes iterative--work and go to school, and 
continue to grow that job path, perhaps through the 
Baccalaureate degree, or even graduate degrees, but you must 
start somewhere.
    I think the most important part is to ensure that we get 
people into the economy.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you once again. I appreciate this 
conversation. It is well overdue. Thank you so much.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Ms. Jayapal, you are recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to spend my 
time just talking a little bit about Federal student aid, which 
is designed to help underserved students, and also the role of 
for-profit colleges. I feel that sadly for-profit colleges have 
been more interested in using these funds to pay their pockets.
    I have met personally with students, including from the Art 
Institute of Seattle, whose for-profit colleges abruptly closed 
before they could graduate. All of their tragic stories end in 
the same way. High student debt, low-quality education, and 
taxpayers ultimately footing the bill.
    In contrast, owners of for-profit colleges emerge 
unscathed, and proceed with business as usual. Of the nearly 
1,100 colleges that closed between 2010 and 2020, an 
overwhelming 86 percent of them were for-profits. When one of 
these students tries to continue their education, they find 
that 83 percent of their credits are ineligible to transfer 
because of the school's poor accreditation and reputation.
    I really think this undermines all of the good work that 
many of you are doing on this panel to provide a quality 
education. Let me ask you, and we can start with you Mr. 
Pulsipher, is it a good use of taxpayer funds to invest in 
these schools when you, yourself, are trying to make sure that 
people really have faith in the educational system?
    Mr. Pulsipher. Thank you for that question, Representative 
Jayapal. The reality is that access without completion, to your 
point, and also completion without value, both of those are, 
and can be a moral hazard. We have certainly seen that occur in 
many sectors of higher education.
    I think that emphasizes the point as even Governor Polis 
said, we need innovation that expands access. We also need 
innovation that drives and aligns the value of those credential 
pathways to the opportunity. We also need that accountability 
that is necessary, such that we know that the Federal dollars, 
or even State level dollars, that they are actually going to 
institutions that can delivery real equity and access, and 
equity attainment because equity and access without attainment 
quite frankly can be a scam.
    Ms. Jayapal. Your answer would be no, it is not a good use 
of taxpayer dollars to invest in those programs.
    Mr. Pulsipher. The only thing I would caution is that it is 
not necessarily exclusive to for profit institutions.
    Ms. Jayapal. Understood.
    Mr. Pulsipher. You have to look at all institutions and 
programs initially.
    Ms. Jayapal. Yes. I agree with you. I am just focusing on 
for-profit because it has been such a huge, you know, it has 
been such a huge abuse in my view. Governor Polis, did you want 
to add anything to that?
    Governor Polis. Yes. I think looking at accountability and 
ROI, one step more than accountability across all modalities, 
online and in person, all types of formation, which could be 
public, non-profit, for-profit, you are stewards of taxpayer 
money. You want to make sure that Congress wants to make sure 
that you are making good investments that benefit people, 
rather than to leave them in a worse place than they were. That 
is across all modalities and forms of higher education.
    Ms. Jayapal. Well, the administration has taken this very 
seriously, and they have established a rule called the Borrower 
Defense Rule, which streamlines student debt cancellation for 
students who are defrauded by these schools, like those from 
the Art Institute in my district.
    Governor Polis, what are the consequences for students who 
are defrauded by their school, or misled about their career 
prospects?
    Governor Polis. First of all, I think that is an excellent 
step. These are students who, through no fault of their own, 
because in your own investigating college that looks 
accredited, you know, you cannot know all the details of 
whether they are going to go out of business, and you did 
accept Federal money to do that, so there's some assumption 
there the Federal Government did some diligence.
    I think canceling the debt on degrees that turned out not 
to be worth anything, like ITT or colleges that went out of 
business, is a fair and very reasonable thing to do. A better 
thing to do would be diligence on the front end, to make sure 
that students do not have to waste the time and money alongside 
the Federal investment.
    Many of them put their own money, and of course, they all 
put their own time to make sure that the programs that are 
supported are high quality across all modalities, across all 
types of entities that offer them.
    Ms. Jayapal. Yes. I completely agree with you, which is why 
I am focusing on these for-profit colleges, and the work 
upfront. The Federal Government has a responsibility to prevent 
abuses of taxpayer dollars, which is why I have a bill called 
Students Not Profits Act. Last Congress, the Build Back Better 
Act proposed stopping for profits from receiving its Pell Grant 
investments.
    Governor Polis, how does limiting for profit access to 
Federal student aid prevent students from being abused?
    Governor Polis. Well, I think you are, of course, correct 
in identifying that a higher percentage of the problems stem 
from for profits. I would also say that we would have the same 
problem with a poorly run public institution, or a poorly run 
non-profit institution.
    As the data shows a correlation, that is clear, but I think 
making sure that all providers of education are accountable 
across, whether it is online or in person, whether it's for-
profit, non-profit, or public, can help make sure that not only 
is Congress better stewards of taxpayer money, but also that 
students get better educational outcomes that improve the 
quality of their lives.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Governor, and thanks to the panel. 
Do I get a gold star, too, Madam Chair? I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. I now recognize Mr. Good for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Good. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Just to followup on 
what was just the question line that was just had, and my 
friends on the other side just despise the term profit 
generally, when it applies to a business, let alone education. 
I have an issue with these colleges with billion, multi-billion 
dollar endowments who are allowing college costs to soar 
exponentially for non-academic additions of staff and 
otherwise, I would call that for profit by the way.
    That said, I am going to direct a couple of questions to 
Mrs. Gentles. Thank you for being with us today. In your 
testimony, you said it is related to what we were talking 
about, costs. Over the last 20 years, K to 12 administrative 
staff and public schools have increased by 88 percent, while 
student enrollment only increased by 8 percent.
    I doubt you would try to justify, but can you begin to 
think of how that might be justified, and what the impact has 
been from this--besides the exorbitant increase in costs, by 
increasing administrative staff 88 percent?
    Mrs. Gentles. Right. I mentioned that in my written 
testimony, and I also mentioned that inflation adjusted public 
school funding has risen by 152 percent. Teacher's salaries 
have only increased by 8 percent since 1970, so we have been 
hearing a lot about teacher's salaries. There seems to be an 
obvious fix, and that is to redirect K-12 funding to fund 
classroom activities and teachers, rather than administrative 
bloat.
    It is laid out very clearly that the districts have grown 
in size, and they have hired more and more adults, and that 
does not serve the needs of students, and it certainly does not 
benefit teachers.
    Mr. Good. No question about it. I have seen that across my 
district, across my home State of Virginia, and across the 
country where even where student population is decreasing, and 
we are not directing resources appropriately to the classroom 
where it makes an academic difference. Instead, we are 
directing resources to non-academic positions, administrative 
bloat, or worse.
    Changing gears a little bit, but appallingly, and 
inexcusably again, in Virginia, in Fairfax County, not far from 
here, multiple schools are being investigated for unlawful 
discrimination because of a failure to notify students about 
their national merit scholar recognition even after some 
college application deadlines has passed.
    It is reported that a school official in Fairfax County 
actually told a parent that they wanted to inform the students 
in a low-key way about their recognition, their achievement, in 
order not to hurt the feelings of those who did not achieve the 
same level of academic achievement.
    This district, also by the way, has spent $450,000.00 on 
equity consultants for administrators, perhaps part of that 88 
percent increase in costs for non-teaching staff. Can you 
imagine any justification for that? Why we would not 
appropriately want to recognize students who were performing 
excellently so they can earn scholarships accordingly for that 
achievement?
    Mrs. Gentles. Well, there seems to be a movement afoot to 
take away the idea of merit to no longer push children to 
achieve, or to even differentiate children by skill levels, or 
challenge them with different levels of courses that they can 
choose from, and so this is all part of that initiative.
    Another number to throw out for Fairfax County is that they 
had 170 million dollars left in their ESSR funding as of last 
fall that they had not spent. We have been hearing wondering 
examples of uses of ESSR funds that districts in the State of 
Colorado have invested in, and yet in Virginia, there was two 
billion dollars overall that the districts had not yet spent 
last fall of this ESSR funding.
    Clearly, it was not used to reopen schools because Virginia 
was, I think, like the sixth worst in the Nation, and my 
children were kept out of schools because of that in Arlington 
County, and suffered as a result. It was isolating. It caused 
harm, emotionally, academically, mentally, and we are seeing 
all kinds of problems in Arlington County where I live with 
behavior, with drugs, and other issues.
    Why were these ESSR funds spent? Why is there this focus on 
keeping children down, rather than opening schools and 
educating them?
    Mr. Good. Well said. History will judge us harshly for how 
we sacrificed children on the altar of poor political 
decisions, harmful political decisions over the last 2 years. 
We were told that we needed 25 billion dollars to safely open 
schools. We gave the schools 200 billion. I use the term we 
loosely, because I voted against all of that.
    We gave the schools 200 billion when children were at no 
risk of getting seriously ill from the virus. It is nice to 
look around this room and not see the masks that we know never 
worked, never prevented transmission of a virus. What we did to 
the children, it has already been mentioned today. The lost 
learning that they will never recover from, and there is no 
plan to recover from that because we put teachers' unions ahead 
of students throughout this whole process.
    We continue to do it today. I have some questions for you 
about teachers' unions, but thanks for your testimony, and 
thanks for being here today, and I yield back, Madam 
Chairwoman.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Mrs. McBath, I recognize you. 
Oh. Okay. I am sorry. Ms. Hayes. You are on the list, I am 
sorry. Yes. Ms. Hayes, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Hayes. Thank you, Chairwoman Foxx and Ranking Member 
Scott, for having this hearing. Thank you to all the witnesses 
that are here today. There are so many important things to 
consider in this committee. I can talk about the fact that any 
good teacher knows and encourages parental involvement, because 
they know that is key to student success.
    I can talk about the fact that teachers support all 
students, regardless of orientation or identity. I could 
educate the people in this room about the fact that members of 
teachers' unions are in fact teachers. I could talk a little 
bit about the fact that education funding is not--it is 
appropriated, but it is not spent on the first day of the 
school year because many academic programs have to play 
themselves out over the year.
    Today, I will focus on my questions on the labor shortage 
that was exacerbated by the COVID pandemic. I have to remind 
everyone once again that we cannot consider any conversation 
surrounding the crisis in education without the backdrop of a 
global pandemic in which over 1 million people died.
    About the fact that the children who are in our schools, 
many of them lost family members, and that has impacted them. 
These were unprecedented times, and we relied on the sciences, 
and conducted ourselves accordingly as we got information. Back 
to the labor shortage.
    With teachers, healthcare workers, and childcare providers 
opting for early retirement, our country was faced to force the 
uncomfortable reality that we have long neglected to prioritize 
our workforce development. With the U.S. economy seeing record 
breaking job creation under the leadership of President Biden, 
employers still have millions of job openings to fill.
    In Connecticut, childcare workers dropped 28 percent from 
2019 to 2020, and according to the National Center for 
Education Statistics, more than half of the country's public 
schools reported being understaffed at the start of the 2022-
2023 school year. 69 percent of public schools reported that 
the primary challenge staffing classrooms was they had too few 
teacher candidates applying for open positions.
    In my State of Connecticut, we had over 1,000 openings 
weeks before the school year began. In the 117th Congress, we 
passed the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act of 2022, 
that would have been a historic 78-billion-dollar investment in 
training one million workers annually until 2028. The 
legislation included my bill, the Youth Bill for the Future 
Act, which invests 1 billion into youth build programs over 6 
years and improves support for vulnerable people.
    Mr. Sullivan, I thank you for your conversations about 
workforce development--and I believe this is a bipartisan issue 
that this committee should be able to find common ground on. 
Governor Polis, you mentioned that Colorado offers free 
community and technical colleges for students pursuing careers 
in healthcare and is hoping to expand this to early childhood 
education.
    Can you describe some of the difficulties with recruiting 
and retaining early childhood educators, and do you see youth 
employment as a significant contributor to the workforce 
shortage?
    Governor Polis. Thank you. We are launching this fall free 
universal preschool for every 4-year-old in our State. It was a 
voter passed initiative that we put on the ballot and 
championed, and in our State it got 67.7 percent of the vote, 
which means it passed in red counties, in blue counties, rural 
and urban, people of our State overwhelmingly said kids ought 
to be able to go to preschool.
    Now that is funded. Along with that, we need more early 
childhood educators, and again, it is quality. It is not about 
a place to park your child, of course the immediate workforce 
benefit does help them. It is about preparing a child for the 
skills they need to succeed in school and beyond. We are 
looking to expand our Care For It Program funded from American 
Rescue Act, which currently funds free community college 
degrees in the healthcare fields to include free community 
college degree for early childhood educators, also for para 
professionals that play such a critical role of support in our 
schools.
    Mrs. Hayes. Thank you. I love that. As an educator I know 
that college is not for everyone, so we have to make sure that 
we have equal opportunities for a career in technical training 
and workforce development for today's economy. Do you believe 
that Colorado would benefit from increased funding in programs 
like Youth Build, or these workforce development type 
initiatives?
    Governor Polis. Absolutely. To get to your second piece, 
incorporating workforce training for high school students 
especially that are not going on to college is an incredible 
pathway to success for them, and very important for the 
economy. That can be done for instance, by expanding 
flexibility under WIOA, for in school training programs.
    We have entire high schools like Colorado early college 
high school, where every student graduates with an associate's 
degree. We have other high schools where many students graduate 
with certificates in certain skills to be ready to enter the 
workforce after they graduate if they are not going on to 
higher education.
    Mrs. Hayes. Thank you. You made me lose my gold star. I 
yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. We will try to figure out some way to 
recognize others. Ms. McClain, you are recognized for 5 
minutes. The members of the committee can tell you about the 
report cards they got last time, and what a difference they 
made. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I will try and 
adhere to the gold star standard. I just want to caution 
everyone on the term of the word free. We seem to throw that 
word free out as if there is no one that pays the bill. I might 
remind you someone is paying the bill, and free is a very 
slippery slope because if it was free that would indicate that 
no one pays the bill. Somebody is paying the bill.
    With that said, thank you all for being here today. Mr. 
Pulsipher, and I hope I am saying that right, I want to start 
with you. Is it your testimony you mentioned in December 2022, 
that the Government Accountability Office issued a report 
showing that roughly half of student aid offer letters 
calculated students out of pocket costs by factoring in loans.
    This means that students and families could be misled into 
believing that certain forms of student aid do not have to be 
paid back. Last Congress I introduced the College Cost 
Transparency Act, and Student Protection Act, which I will be 
reintroducing this Congress.
    I think transparency and honesty, and knowing what you are 
getting into is critical for the student, as well as the 
parent, as well as the colleges. My question is this. Do you 
believe colleges should be required to inform students of 
financing options that include personal resources, Federal 
student loans, or work study and private plus loans?
    In addition to ensuring financial aid offers are 
transparent, that one other--that is question No. 1. Then I 
would like to hear your thoughts on what other ways can 
Congress really simplify the college shopping process?
    Mr. Pulsipher. Thank you for that question, Representative 
McClain. What we have certainly learned from our own 
responsible borrowing initiative is that the more you give 
complete understanding, or the more you give complete 
transparency to the full cost of attending or completing your 
program, that individuals make better choices about how they 
fund that program.
    Mrs. McClain. Agreed.
    Mr. Pulsipher. That includes, by the way, the total cost of 
financing that through Federal aid and Federal loans, and so 
they need to understand that if in fact the total cost of what 
you are intending that it is inclusive of not just tuition, 
books and fees, but that also includes room and board, and 
other student life fees, or anything else like that.
    I think what you would find if you inspected the increased 
cost of attendance over time, that tuition, net tuition 
remained relatively flat, but all these other costs started 
going up substantially, and the students have to pay for that.
    Mrs. McClain. Do you see a downside in being transparent 
with all those costs?
    Mr. Pulsipher. A downside to the institutions maybe, 
because in fact you are going to put at risk some of the 
revenue dollars that they are currently achieving, meaning that 
there is no downside ultimately for the student. Like if you 
keep the focus on the student.
    Mrs. McClain. Right. Which is why the institution is there 
to educate the student, correct?
    Mr. Pulsipher. I think it is absolutely true. You heard 
that in my testimony. If everything we could do, we would 
actually put the student at the center of higher education.
    Mrs. McClain. Amen to that.
    Mr. Pulsipher. For them, that we are trying to deliver the 
value.
    Mrs. McClain. I do not mean to be rude, but in the interest 
of time, do you know any other ways, or suggestions that 
Congress can simplify the college shopping?
    Mr. Pulsipher. Yes. There is certainly one presumption you 
can have, even if students do not take out Federal aid, that 
virtually all of them apply for FAFSA, or they fill out the 
FAFSA, such that in that process itself there are means and 
mechanisms by which you could introduce the students an 
understanding of what is actually the cost and the return on 
that investment you were going to make by choosing that program 
at that institution, and what alternative recommendations might 
there be that actually have a higher value.
    Each of us experiences, in an online shopping world, 
recommendations, yes.
    Mrs. McClain. Yes. Thank you for that. I think it is 
interesting that you talked about return on investment, because 
that almost sounds like you are getting value for your dollar, 
and you are kind of getting into that profit margin, which is 
scary.
    My second is in your testimony you noticed that colleges 
over charge post-graduate students more than the actual costs 
of that degree because there is no cap on borrowing. Would you 
agree colleges should be more transparent, and make it clear to 
potential post-grad students that they will be overcharged for 
these degrees? What limits, if any, should Congress place on 
borrowing at the graduate level?
    Mr. Pulsipher. Again, if we start with the assumption that 
the students are being asked to make an investment in their 
education so they can change their life for the better, the 
more information they have about the total cost of completing 
that, and the return that they are going to get for that 
investment, they are going to make better choices today. 
Institutions are not held accountable because of the unlimited 
amount that can be borrowed in grad plus loans.
    We certainly have seen through the studies, including that 
which is advanced by the Wall Street Journal, that many of 
those programs do not actually fundamentally deliver any 
economic return, and yet the costs are exorbitantly high.
    Mrs. McClain. Hence the return on investment.
    Mr. Pulsipher. That is right. For the student.
    Mrs. McClain. With that, I yield back. Thank you, sir. 
Thank you all.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Ms. McClain. Ms. Leger 
Fernandez, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you so much, Chairwoman Foxx and 
Ranking Member Scott. Governor Polis, we did not serve 
together, but we are neighbors. You are our Vecinos up there in 
Colorado, and we share many things between Colorado and New 
Mexico. I will say our green chili is better than your green 
chili. I know you are going to agree on that.
    The issue of the early childhood education by a vote of 70 
to 30, New Mexico has not targeted to put more resources into 
our earliest--you know, the babies right? That is where we need 
to invest, because we know that has such an amazing return. 
Yes, it is an investment. The return though, is about allowing 
a child to realize their full potential, and that is what 
education is supposed to be about.
    Education is what we use to make sure we have a democracy. 
Education is what we use to make sure that our economy thrives, 
and so I really do believe that we need to pay teachers what 
they deserve, because as we increase pay in New Mexico, we saw 
that a teacher gap dropped. It makes sense, right? In a tight 
labor market, you need to pay teachers what they have earned 
and deserve.
    I wanted to talk to you a little bit about college 
affordability. I am going to be reintroducing former 
Congressman Levin's America's College Promise Act. Under the 
bill the Federal Government would partner with states at a 75/
25 percent share to provide tuition free community college to 
all students, for whatever they want to study, whether it be a 
nurse, whether they want to get some of their degrees and 
training that they need to be welders, to know how to be an 
electrician, the wide range of things, right?
    We showed last year we made college free in New Mexico. 
What happened? Enrollment went up, but that is what happens 
when you provide the means and opportunity. Can you share how 
you think Colorado's and New Mexico's effort to address college 
affordability could be enhanced with that Federal State 
partnership that I described in the American's College Promise?
    Governor Polis. Yes. There is no question that reducing the 
cost of higher education promotes equity, improves access, and 
affordability, which were many of the barriers. When we, 
through the Care Forward Program, with the American Rescue Act 
funds, made training in many of the healthcare related fields, 
phlebotomy, nurse assistant, EMT free, it increased 
participation in these programs by about a third.
    We now have 1,000 people in our workforce today filling key 
roles in healthcare because they were able to access the 
tuition for free. To tell you in the first part of your 
comment, and I/we admire New Mexico's investment in early 
childhood education, we are following along in Colorado as 
well.
    Not having childcare for your kid can also be a barrier to 
education, so when you look at how to make sure that a young 
mom can be able to go to school, to be able to get the skills 
she needs to earn a living, if she has a 2-year old, or a 4-
year old at home, it is important that we have a real life 
solution that meets their needs as well.
    When you look at all of these barriers that can occur, 
break them down, and at the same time making sure that both the 
State and Federal Governments, as well as the individuals 
getting the educational learner, are getting the return on 
investment for their time and money, meaning increased earning 
potential, meaning the ability to find a job, meaning the 
abilities to support themselves and their family.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, Governor Polis. We have had 
a lot of conversation today about apprenticeships. We have seen 
that Democrats have been incredibly supportive of 
apprenticeships. I think that was one of the first bills that 
we reported to the floor of the House.
    I remember it was one of the first bills that I got to 
stand up and say, you know, pass, I am in favor of this. It 
passed out of the House. According to the Department of Labor, 
93 percent of apprentices complete their program, and then earn 
on average $77,000.00 a year.
    We heard earlier the Ranking Member talk about the $1.44 
return that those who participate in these. You have registered 
for an apprenticeship program in your State. Tell us how that 
works, and how that could be a model as we move forward on 
apprenticeships. I tell you, I am really--this is important for 
me because we are a State in transition.
    Governor Polis. Yes. We embrace all of the above. 
Registered apprenticeships, apprenticeships are earned while 
you learn models, including through career wise model, working 
with high schoolers. There are many people that a barrier to 
getting the skills they need is they cannot leave their day 
job.
    They have to work to support themselves, so how can we 
incorporate getting the educational skills they need to earn a 
better living into the time they spend at work.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, Governor Polis, and I yield 
back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. Ms. Miller, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Miller. Thank you, Chairwoman Fox. Governor Polis, 
emails reveal that teachers in Colorado schools were discussing 
a left-wing political ideology called gender identity with 
elementary school students. Governor Polis, do you think it is 
appropriate for an adult teacher to talk to an 8-year old girl 
about changing her gender?
    Governor Polis. I have not seen those emails. Please share 
them with the school district. You are also welcome to share 
them with us. These are not part of our State standards or 
curriculum around health, or around social studies.
    Mrs. Miller. Well, I appreciate that you were saying that 
you care about involving parents and protecting the children, 
but Governor we are talking about five, six and 7 year old 
children, and we would like to know do you think it is 
appropriate for adults to be talking to them about sexual 
orientation and gender transitioning behind their parents back?
    We do know this happened in Larimer County Laurel 
Elementary School. We have emails.
    Governor Polis. What is important is that the teachers, the 
principals, meet the needs of all learners, all students, no 
matter who they are, no matter how they identify.
    They need to learn math, reading and writing, and we need 
to involve the parents in making sure the kids are able to get 
the education they need no matter what their faith is, no 
matter what their gender is, or no matter any of the other 
great aspects of diversity that make our country a stronger 
place.
    Mrs. Miller. You think it is appropriate? You have not 
answered the question yet. I want to know is it appropriate for 
adults to talk to an 8-year-old about sex and gender without 
parents' knowledge?
    Governor Polis. Well, again, I do not know the answer that 
you are referring to, but obviously I have a third grader, and 
a fifth grader, and their classmates know that they have two 
dads, and it has never been a problem. Obviously, if parents 
want to have discussions with other kids about what they think 
or do not think about having two dads, they are welcome to.
    Mrs. Miller. Well, this is a parent sir, this is adult 
teachers having these discussions with very young children, 
five, six, 7-year-old children behind their parents' back. We 
want to know if you think it is appropriate.
    Governor Polis. Well, I do not know the answer you are 
referring to. I am sure you will be able to provide us with the 
information, but I can assure you that it is not part of our 
State standards. It is certainly not part of our age-
appropriate health standards, nor is it a part of our social 
studies standards to have that as part of the curriculum at 
that age.
    Mrs. Miller. Can you see why parents are upset that adult 
teachers are talking to their 8-year-old children about sexual 
orientation and transitioning?
    Governor Polis. Well, again, I do not know the answer that 
you are referring to, but schools need to serve all learners, 
and that means kids with two dads, kids with two moms, kids who 
were raised by their grandparents, kids who identify in 
different ways. No matter how they identify, or what background 
they come from, the schools are there to teach them reading, 
writing and math, and make sure that they can get the basics, 
so they can succeed in life.
    Mrs. Miller. Yes. We want to protect our children, and 
these are very young children that adults have been having 
discussions with behind parents' backs about sexual 
orientation, and gender transitioning, and we just want to know 
is it appropriate or not appropriate?
    Governor Polis. Again, if there is a particular incident 
that occurred in my State that you can share that with me, and 
we will be happy to share that with the school district, 
because I am not aware of the incident you are referring to. 
Again, it is not part of the standards to do that.
    Again, schools have to deal with every variety of diversity 
that society has, and keep the focus on learning.
    Mrs. Miller. Thank you, sir. Since day one, the Biden 
administration has been pushing puberty blockers, and surgical 
castration on young children, while cutting parents out. In 
conjunction with teachers' unions, Biden is forcing woke 
political ideology in a school curriculum, while ignoring the 
core subjects of reading, writing and arithmetic.
    Just yesterday, sadly, reports showed that 23 schools in 
Baltimore have zero students proficient in math. Zero. This is 
all fine to the Biden administration, as long as their children 
learn about woke politics, and something called gender 
identity. Parents are outraged, and this indoctrination of our 
young children must stop. We want our children to be educated 
and smart. Thank you and I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Ms. Miller. Mrs. McBath, you 
are recognized now.
    Mrs. McBath. Thank you so much Chairwoman, and I just have 
to say I just really take offense to the continued use of 
wokeism referring to the democratic party. Mr. Pulsipher, thank 
you so much for being here today. It is good to see you.
    Thank you, Chairwoman Foxx, and Ranking Member Scott. Thank 
you to our guests that are here today, who join us to discuss 
this very critically important issues, and their impact on 
students and families across the country.
    As I have said to this committee before, this coming week 
is an incredibly difficult week for me and many, many others, 
as so many are from the communities, families, and classrooms 
that have been torn apart by the crisis of rampant gun violence 
in our country.
    Next week I continue to mourn, as we mark the fifth 
anniversary of the senseless murder of 17 students and their 
teachers at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, 
Florida. Next week I will also continue to mourn and 
commemorate what should have been my own son's 28th birthday on 
February 16.
    For me and those who remain behind, the pain of having to 
bury a child, or losing a loved one never, ever truly goes 
away. You carry it with you always deep in your soul, but you 
just learn to manage it.
    It is a pain that I would never wish on anyone here, but 
that possibility is a reality that students and their parents 
are facing every single day, as they go to school in the 
morning, or drop their kids off at the bus stop, before heading 
off to work.
    From recurring lockdown drills to purchasing bulletproof 
backpacks for children still learning to read and write, 
students, teachers, and parents today are asked to endure the 
mental hardships and lasting trauma that they never had to face 
before school shootings began occurring at the terrifying 
frequency that our Nation sees today.
    It is a preventable crisis that we cannot afford to ignore 
any longer, and it is critical that more steps be taken to 
address the epidemic of gun violence and school shootings that 
continue to plague our country. I applaud the important steps 
that we took to make schools safer through the bipartisan Safer 
Communities Act, but we can, and we must do more.
    Every day that we refuse to enact the policies necessary to 
curb this epidemic, we allow more and more families to be torn 
apart and permanently scarred. We tell more and more students 
and parents and teachers, that their leaders and elected 
officials are comfortable letting them bear the emotional 
burden of losing a loved one or being maimed and killed in a 
moment's notice.
    That is the reality that I, and so many families live every 
single day, and it is one that we must not allow to become the 
new normal for students, teachers, and families today.
    My question is for Governor Polis. Governor Polis, can you 
briefly talk about why school climate and atmosphere, I mean is 
such an important factor in our children's educational 
outcomes, and what the elements of an effective school climate 
program look like?
    Governor Polis. We appreciate the bipartisan bill last year 
around improving gun safety, including funding for schools to 
implement common sense measures. We have added additional State 
resources around hardening, including single exit points and 
additional barriers, but that is too late in the process to 
have a discussion, as you have indicated.
    There are a lot of forms of school violence. Obviously, the 
most extreme form we have seen is guns. We have also seen 
knives, fistfights, and many other things. What you need is to 
make sure you have a positive school culture that supports all 
learners where everybody feels valued. A part of that is making 
sure kids have access to the mental health resources they need 
to get help when they need it.
    They know who to talk to through the IMATTERS Program 
funded through Opera funds kids in Colorado can get six free 
counseling sessions privately when they need to. The 
information is posted up in the schools about how to do that 
and many school districts have invested in additional 
counseling to better support kids that have behavioral health 
needs to make sure before they lash out or take it out on 
others or themselves are able to get the help that the need.
    Mrs. McBath. In response to your answer, what can we, as 
members of this body, do to prevent this culture, this really 
violent culture from furthering and just wreaking havoc on our 
schools?
    Governor Polis. I think really focusing on positive school 
culture and school environment, having site leaders, parents, 
educators involved, making sure that kids feel supported in 
schools, that their needs are met. They know who to go to if 
they see something and that the right intervention can occur 
promptly.
    Mrs. McBath. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. I now recognize Mr. 
Moran for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Moran. Mrs. Gentles, thank you for being here today. I 
am going to direct my questions to you for just a few moments. 
You mentioned earlier the Parents' Bill of Rights that likely 
is going to come through this Committee this year. I want to 
read a statement to you and see if you would agree with this 
statement.
    ``The parental right to guide one's child intellectually 
and religiously is a most substantial part of the liberty and 
freedom of the parent.'' Would you agree with that?
    Mrs. Gentles. I would agree with that.
    Mr. Moran. This statement, as you likely know, was made in 
a 1925 U.S. Supreme Court case by the name of Pierce v. The 
Society of Sisters. There was a unanimous decision by the 
Supreme Court in 1925 to strike down the 1922 Oregon law that 
attempted to compel elementary school children to attend public 
schools to the exclusion of other choices.
    In doing so, the Court, when it struck down this law said 
that it ``Unreasonably interferes with the liberty of parents 
and guardians to direct the upbringing and education of 
children under their control.'' Would you agree also with that 
determination and finding?
    Mrs. Gentles. I would agree with that. I believe they also 
said that children were not mere creatures of the State and I 
certainly agree with that.
    Mr. Moran. That is right. Like you, I agree with these 
statements and agree with that precedent unanimously held by 
the Supreme Court almost a hundred years ago as a father of 
four school-aged children. You mentioned that you have two 
children. I have double that amount, but I have been in both 
Gifted and Talented meetings and also Art meetings.
    I proudly serve my community by helping with an education 
foundation and hoping to start one for our public school system 
and I proudly send my kids to a public school system, the same 
one that I graduated from. I recognize that parents need 
choices, and every child is different and every decision for 
every child must be made by those parents in their education.
    I wonder if you could comment about what you believe the 
role of this Committee should be and what we could do to 
preserve the parents' rights to guide the education of their 
children in this Nation.
    Mrs. Gentles. I think redirecting the K-12 education system 
to prioritize academic instruction is a big role. That is what 
parents want. They want schools to focus on academic 
instruction. They want Math and Reading to be at the center of 
what the child is presented at the school. They want academics, 
not activism and so there are numerous steps that you can take 
to do that. I think holding school districts accountable for 
what they did during the COVID era, with closures that harmed 
children and how they spent the emergency funding, is it going 
to address learning loss. That is going to meet the needs of 
parents.
    Then reinforcing Federal--existing Federal laws, PPRA, for 
making sure that parents know what their rights are under 
existing Federal law will be an important message that you can 
send from this Committee.
    Mr. Moran. Likewise, I would pose a similar question with 
respect to your advice to local school districts as they seek 
to partner with parents to be at the center of educational 
decisions for their local school districts. What advice would 
you give to be good partners with the parents at the local 
level?
    Mrs. Gentles. Well, the Federal Government did give them 
advice and said that parents needed to be consulted as part of 
the Federal funding and districts weren't even able to comply 
with that in many areas. There just needs to be a reckoning 
with what is become of the relationship between school 
districts and parents. The parents going to the school board 
meetings and speaking up that was very courageous in a time 
when things had become quite adversarial. It has not resulted 
in a change in that relationship. The school districts need to 
recognize that parental involvement is key to student success.
    If that district wants to achieve what it is set out to do, 
which is educate children, it has to involve the parents in a 
non-confrontational in inclusive way.
    Mr. Moran. Switching gears one moment for a final question. 
You are not a medical doctor, but in your testimony, you 
highlighted that the education establishment's embrace of so-
called gender affirming care is at odds with steps being taken 
in other countries to reduce or eliminate such interventions. 
Why are these practices so harmful and why is American medicine 
so out of step with other countries' approaches in this regard.
    Mrs. Gentles. Well, fortunately the State of Florida and 
specifically their Board of Medicine has taken a look at the 
evidence. They have done a systematic review of evidence and 
concluded that what is called gender affirming care is actually 
not helpful and, in fact, harmful to the often emotional 
vulnerable youth who are drawn into this system.
    European nations are ahead of us in this process. Sweden's 
done a systematic review. The United Kingdom has as well, and 
the UK shut down their pediatric gender clinic as a result of 
the review, recognizing that it is harmful.
    Mr. Moran. Thank you for your answer today and thank you 
for your efforts on behalf of our children. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Moran. Mr. Bowman, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Bowman. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Mrs. Gentles, 
you mentioned the State of Florida in some of your remarks just 
then. Do you support the State of Florida's decision to remove 
AP African American History from its curriculum?
    Mrs. Gentles. That is not something that I have looked into 
and I do not think, from a Federal perspective, that Congress 
needs to get involved in what a State should or should not 
teach. I am not sure if that is the role--that is not the role 
of the Federal Government.
    Mr. Bowman. I am asking you your opinion. Do you support 
the teaching of African American History?
    Mrs. Gentles. Absolutely, I support the teaching of African 
American History. Fourth grade Social Studies in Virginia has a 
real emphasis for that.
    Mr. Bowman. You, also--I am sorry. I am reclaiming my time. 
Do you support the teaching of Latino History?
    Mrs. Gentles. For sure, yes.
    Mr. Bowman. You support the teaching of all history, 
multicultural history in every American school, you support 
that.
    Mrs. Gentles. Right. We need to have a robust and full 
history standards and lessons and curriculum so that all topics 
are addressed.
    Mr. Bowman. Do you support the teaching of Queer and Gender 
Studies in public schools?
    Mrs. Gentles. I am not sure what you mean when you say 
Queer and Gender Studies. That does not sound like something 
that would be in elementary level, for example, appropriate 
topic.
    Mr. Bowman. What about middle school and high school?
    Mrs. Gentles. Yes, I am not sure what you are saying when 
you are saying Queer and Gender Studies.
    Mr. Bowman. I am a former educator. I worked in education 
for 20 years. I was a middle school principal for ten and a 
half years and I had students who identified as gay or lesbian 
or queer, and it was very important for them to feel safe and 
comfortable and seen and heard and recognized in our school 
curriculum and that helped them to have higher levels of self-
esteem, self-worth, and it helped them to thrive academically, 
in my school. I am just wondering what your thoughts are about 
that. Do you support the teaching and supporting of Queer and 
Gender Studies in schools?
    Mrs. Gentles. I honestly am not familiar with a curriculum 
or a class that would be an appropriate class, Queer and 
Gender.
    Mr. Bowman. What about authors and books? There are many 
books who are authored by authors who identify as Queer. Many 
of these books in Florida have been taken off of bookshelves, 
along with many other books. Do you support the removal of 
classroom libraries in Florida or in public schools across the 
country?
    Mrs. Gentles. Well, I am pretty contrary by nature, so when 
books like To Kill a Mocking Bird and other books were being 
brought up as controversial and I went out and ordered them to 
make sure that my daughters were not kept from reading them in 
their public schools. When you are talking about schools that 
specifically direct children to sex acts, sex Apps, or lay 
out----
    Mr. Bowman. How many schools--resuming my time. I am sorry. 
How many schools have been identified as teaching this so-
called or providing this so-called woken indoctrination agenda, 
how many schools?
    Mrs. Gentles. There are examples----
    Mr. Bowman. Have you identified a number of schools that 
are so-called implementing a woke indoctrination agenda; is 
there a number?
    Mrs. Gentles. No. That might be something that the 
Committee could----
    Mr. Bowman. There is no number.
    Mrs. Gentles [continuing]. Submit a report on, but there is 
anecdotal evidence.
    Mr. Bowman. In your testimony you continued to make general 
statements about schools this, parents' that, teachers this, 
but you cannot tell me a number right now of schools that are 
implementing this sort of curriculum. Let me just reclaim my 
time.
    In your testimony, you drew a contrast between balanced 
literacy and phonics. Can you talk to me about that contrast?
    Mrs. Gentles. Yes. Thank you for that question. Balance 
literacy refers to what is often called ``queuing,'' which is a 
debunked approach to teaching reading that is taught students 
to guess.
    Mr. Bowman. What is ``queuing''?
    Mrs. Gentles. It teaches children to memorize words to 
guess the sentence based on the context. They look at pictures 
and they guess and skip over words that they are not familiar 
with. The contrast of that is phonics instructions, which helps 
children spell out and break down the building blocks----
    Mr. Bowman. Okay. Let me just reclaim my time. As I 
mentioned, I taught in public schools for 20 years. I was an 
elementary school teacher. Phonics is a major component of 
balanced literacy. Balanced literacy includes the teaching of 
reading, writing, listening, and speaking and it also includes 
the teaching of phonics instruction. That is why it is called 
balanced. It is not separate from phonics instruction. Phonics 
instruction is supposed to be part of balanced literacy. It is 
important for you to know that. It is important for everyone on 
this panel to know that.
    I just have a few more questions, while I do not have much 
time left, but I would like to go to Governor Polis. Can you 
talk a little bit about how to build a positive school culture?
    Governor Polis. In 10 seconds? Wow. Well, it really 
includes partnership with parents, first and foremost. We have 
heard this from both sides of the aisle. It needs to be 
implemented. In fact, great site leadership is so important and 
then bringing educators along with that vision for the school, 
including aligning curriculum to standards.
    Mr. Bowman. Thank you and I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Governor, you get a gold star. 
Mr. Williams, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Williams. Thank you, Madame Chairman. Governor, as the 
executive of a significant State, I really admire you for your 
investment here and your patience in dealing with all of these 
things. My wife is a native of Colorado from Fort Carson. There 
only briefly before her father was deployed to Vietnam. Just a 
little biographical comment is that my wife and I both 
homeschooled our children, though we are the product of 
excellent public education and have had significant further 
education, that was the best choice for us.
    Sir, I commend you. You have been a consistent champion for 
school choice, and I very much applaud everything that you have 
done for the children of Colorado to ensure that a child's zip 
code is not the determinate factor of their quality of 
education.
    I am personally saddened that school choice has become more 
partisan in recent years, although it looks like it is making a 
comeback. I am excited about that, but it really should not be 
a partisan issue. School choice is about giving every child a 
chance to succeed in life no matter their circumstances.
    I did read your testimony in case you think all is lost or 
we do not pay attention. You say we cannot rely on the old ways 
of doing things. I just invite your comment, sir. Can you 
explain briefly for this Committee why you support school 
choice, and can you offer advice on how we, as Republican and 
Democrat, can come together on this issue. You have done this 
successfully, and I would like to learn.
    Governor Polis. I will give you an example of the way in 
Colorado Democrats and Republicans came together on school 
choice. We are home to over 400,000 Military families like the 
family your wife was born into. Many people get stationed to 
Colorado, including people with young kids at a different time 
of year than the traditional open enrollment season and so many 
of them were effectively excluded from the open enrollment 
process, had to enroll in their neighborhood school and many 
enrollments in their neighborhood school. That is a fine 
choice.
    However, what we did through the State legislature, and I 
was able to sign the bill to do it, is we created a special 
open enrollment period, a different timeline for Military 
families that are assigned to Colorado so that they can have 
their school of choice for their child, the space permitting, 
of course.
    We have open enrollment within school districts and across 
school districts in Colorado. We also try to learn from schools 
that have a lot of demand and therefore need to have lotteries. 
We are saying what are they doing well, how do we expand or 
replicate that? Some of them are district schools, some of them 
are charter schools. It is not about the model of the school. 
It is about the quality, and it is about the educational 
outcomes.
    Finally, I would point out that what is good for one kid is 
not necessarily good for another. I have two kids. Many on this 
Committee have different kids and you know that many kids have 
different learning styles. Some might want a hands-on outdoor 
experiential add model. Some might want a more rigorous college 
prep model. Some might benefit from additional vocational or 
hands-on ways of learning. While every possible model is not 
necessarily available to every kid, we want to make sure that 
more kids across our State can access the education that works 
for them.
    Mr. Williams. If I may, just to followup, the model that 
has been talked about from a governance standpoint, governing 
standpoint, and because you obviously have a very large 
responsibility in the education in your State, I have seen that 
the resources should follow the child, instead of the 
institution in funding a child's education as a focus rather 
than a system.
    A lot of things you mentioned really talk about enrollment 
in the public schools with some flexibility for charter. I 
think back to our own experience of extending that to parochial 
schools to homeschooling, which was the right choice for our 
family. Do you have any thoughts or suggestions along those 
lines?
    Governor Polis. We do have many school districts and 
charter schools that partner with and support homeschooling 
families. I think what is missing from some of these models 
like the Arizona model that has been touted on this panel, is 
the quality and accountability. How do we know it is working if 
we do not know there is student achievement? How do we make 
sure that if there are taxpayer resources being used, that 
there is quality? There needs to be some way of doing that, 
some structure for doing that, some accountability for doing 
that, some transparency into that, because these are public 
funds.
    Certainly, we want to make sure that we can innovate with 
homeschools, with other kinds of schools to make sure that as 
long as they are willing to have the transparency that 
accompanies public funds there's a way to incorporate the 
innovation they bring.
    Mr. Williams. Respectfully, just for the last 10 seconds, 
we homeschooled in four different jurisdictions, Washington 
State, briefly in Florida, New York State, and New York City, 
which, of course, is its own. Our son is a senior at Georgia 
Tech in Aerospace Engineering, so homeschooling did work in our 
case. Thank you for your comments, sir.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. Mr. Mrvan, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Mrvan. Thank you, Chairwoman Foxx. I would like to 
thank the panel for being here today. Governor Polis, I am from 
Indiana, northwest Indiana, and my daughter is a sophomore and 
she went through the Explore, Engage, Experience Grant and came 
home and said she wants to be a lawyer so she could afford what 
she likes. I bring that up because that experience that you 
mentioned is something that makes them think about what they 
want to do when they grow up and I appreciate you mentioning 
that from being from the State of Indiana.
    Very quickly, realizing the key to successful economic 
development is an educated workforce, very often in the most 
vulnerable populations becomes challenges and hurdles, such as 
childcare, such as transportation, such as dependent care, and 
housing. They are significant barriers or challenges to 
employment.
    However, these services provided by Workforce Innovation 
and Opportunity Act, the WIOA, as we know it, allow the workers 
to receive job training and create paths of their choosing 
toward economic stability. My question to you is what impacts 
do these services have on training programs completion and 
employer retention.
    Governor Polis. Yes. The flexibility within WIOA to be able 
to support these wraparound services is critical. To be clear, 
it is not transportation for the sake of transportation. It is 
not childcare for the sake of childcare. It is directly related 
to the ability to become part of the workforce.
    We traditionally focused the money on the skills piece and 
obviously that is a relevant piece, the need of the skills. If 
you have the skills, but your reality is you are the caregiver 
for a child during the day hours where you want to be working 
or you do not have a car and there is not a bus route to get to 
work, how can we be flexible enough with WIOA where we can make 
sure that person is able to work and support themselves and 
address the barriers that they have in their own life.
    Mr. Mrvan. I was a former Township Trustee, to get to the 
point, we managed the most vulnerable populations. In order to 
give them a lift up, we were able to provide transportation 
through a bus service. We were able to provide childcare, so I 
commend you.
    One of my questions that I think is a key component is how 
in education did you utilize the American Rescue Plan dollars 
to most maximize what was going on in education?
    Governor Polis. Lots of different ways. The ESSER and the 
GEER funds are two of those. I would say across the State, 
making sure that we could reduce and address the learning loss 
a lot of this was decentralized in districts and schools were 
able to innovate as they should. Many of them included extended 
learning days, additional hours of support. We are looking at 
directing additional State dollars to afterschool Math support 
as an example for kids who are struggling in Math.
    Free summer clinics--many school districts in the past 
either had to charge for or had very limited ability to offer 
free slots for academic tutoring in the summer. Many districts 
leaned into that last summer and are planning the same for this 
summer to help make sure that students are caught up for 
success. Supporting innovative programs through GEAR that broke 
down barriers between community colleges, school districts, and 
workforce. An example, in the San Louis Valley a number of 
school districts worked with out-of-State college in the area 
to provide transferable and aligned dual and concurrent 
enrollment credit in many of the rural districts that surround 
the college.
    Mr. Mrvan. Thank you. Dr. Sullivan, you talked about 
workforce development and engagement in community college, and 
short-term college programs that allow entrance into the 
workforce. Can you just share with me some success stories of 
industry in those colleges and those programs working together 
in order to have the outcomes of people getting into the 
workforce quickly?
    Dr. Sullivan. Sure. Great example, first of all, commend 
the State of Indiana for the Ivy Tech. Great work that is going 
on there. One of the Nation's best community and technical 
college systems, so I know you have a great deal to be proud 
of.
    Mr. Mrvan. I will share that with them. Thank you.
    Dr. Sullivan. Thank you. Just as a broad statement, I know 
many of you are aware of the broadband initiatives that are 
going on around this country trying to establish broadband for 
the people of this country. Someone has to lay that broadband. 
Someone has to lay the fiber. We are in the midst of what has 
been now about a 10-week process of developing curriculum of 
working with folks within the industry to identify the skills 
needed and to help those individuals to become certified. 
Companies like right there--Louisiana Delta Community College 
in the northeast part of the State who is working with Ethridge 
Pipeline and Conduit.
    These folks are coming onto the campus, bringing equipment, 
bringing expertise to teach individuals. We are forecasting 
about 2,000 graduates by the end of this current year within 
the broadband space to help ensure that we have the people 
necessary. That we are not asking folks from Indiana to come to 
Louisiana to install fiber, but instead, that we are able to do 
that work ourselves.
    Mr. Mrvan. Thank you, Dr. Sullivan. I was proud to vote for 
the infrastructure bill that allowed for that fiber to be laid, 
which created jobs to open the gates for education. I thank you 
very much for all your participation today. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Mrvan. Ms. Houchin, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Houchin. Thank you, Madame Chairwoman. I am really glad 
to talk about this subject matter today. I am glad that our 
first Full Committee hearing is focused on such an important 
issue or such important issues. Dr. Foxx said in her opening 
remarks, this could not be more rewarding work than looking out 
for the interest of students.
    Mrs. Gentles, my first question is for you. I really 
appreciated your written testimony. I took particular interest 
in your discussion of literacy. My son is dyslexic. May of our 
colleagues have children with dyslexia or other reading 
disabilities, so I have worked on this issue very closely in 
the State of Indiana as a legislator.
    You note the problematic use of balance literacy. I 
appreciate your mention of the book by Emily Hanford told a 
story how teaching kids to read went so wrong and I have 
experienced that first-hand, both as a mom and a legislator. We 
are making progress toward a more phonics-based instruction. I 
am really glad of that, but I do know first-hand how hard it is 
to turn the bureaucratic barge.
    In the State of Indiana, we fought the Department of 
Education to implement a screening for students with dyslexia 
and implementing reading specialists in the schools who have an 
understanding of the issue and how to teach kids to read.
    We have seen maybe a failure of what I would call the 
education industrial complex in this space. Reading scores are 
not just keeping pace. They are declining and they have since 
we changed our methodology. What more can we be doing at the 
Federal level to encourage this transition to phonics-based 
instruction and bridge the gap, particularly in the higher 
education space.
    Mrs. Gentles. Right. You mentioned reading scores going 
down. Eighth grade Math scores got a lot of attention from me, 
but it should be noted that a third of fourth graders are below 
basic in Reading and 30 percent of eighth graders are below 
basic. Below basic is appalling and so keeping attention to 
where those scores are dropping, but then shining a light on 
where they went up. Where are the success stories? Colorado is 
one of them when it comes to Reading and ensuring that this 
transition over to a more appropriate approach is happening in 
Mississippi is a great success story.
    I think here at the Committee you can shine the light, 
bring the leaders and the people who have implemented reading 
instruction and approaches to setting curriculum standards at 
the State level and implementing them at the district level 
here so that people can know those models and follow them.
    Ms. Houchin. That is great. I would like to know, when we 
are talking about learning losses, as a parent of a child with 
an IEP, COVID, learning losses, all students were impacted, but 
no more than studies with disabilities on IEPs. We did not have 
specialized training to teach our children. I am not trained in 
the methodologies that help students with dyslexia, so that is 
something that will continue to have to strive to overcome.
    I do, Madame Chair, I would like to highlight that the 
students that have dyslexia and the Dyslexia Institute of 
Indiana reached out to me regarding strong support for a 
phonics-based approach and I would like to submit a brief 
statement to the record by the Dyslexia Institute of Indiana 
that they provided to my office.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
    Ms. Houchin. Thank you.
    [The information of Ms. Houchin follows:]

     Statement for the Record by the Dyslexia Institute of Indiana

    ``The Dyslexia Institute of Indiana is a strong proponent for using 
a structured literacy approach for reading that aligns with the Science 
of Reading. In the 34 years of our existence, we have had success 
teaching students to read and spell using the Orton-Gillingham approach 
to phonics and phonics based skills. This multisensory approach uses 
direct and explicit instruction to help students retain reading skills, 
which in turn brings them closer to automaticity and fluency. This 
approach is appropriate for all students who are learning to read and 
not just dyslexic students.''--Dyslexia Institute of Indiana
                                 ______
                                 
    Ms. Houchin. A couple of things. I want to switch to Mr. 
Sullivan. I did have the opportunity to visit with Ivy Tech 
yesterday. Certainly, we are very proud of their presence in 
southern Indiana in my district. One of the things we talk 
about is the record number of job openings and the lower 
workforce participation rate and what we can do to increase 
that.
    Ivy Tech is working on increasing and drilling down on what 
high-skilled certifications are necessary so that high-value, 
industry-based certification. What is the single greatest 
barrier, in your opinion, to those types of credentials?
    Mr. Sullivan. Well, thank you for the question. First of 
all, I would say to you they are high-cost programs, which is 
one of the key areas. They are also programs that are difficult 
to identify faculty for because they are typically the more 
skilled individuals and so there are a number of challenges, 
but I want to be really clear of what you just said. 
Information is powerful. If you have the ability to point out a 
sector that is a growth sector in Louisiana, as an example, the 
cyber security space is a growth area, as I am sure it is in 
many states around the union.
    As we begin to develop those programs, as we deliver those 
programs to ensure we have the workforce there, I will simply 
point out that our students are voting with their feet. Time is 
the enemy.
    One other point that I cannot help but point out here. This 
nation has millions of adults who do not have a high school 
diploma. As we sit today and talk about K-12 education, how in 
the world can parents be informed about their K-12 education of 
their child when they do not have an education themselves? In 
the WIOA Act, adult basic education has been second fiddle for 
far too long.
    We are not serving the needs of adult students through WIOA 
through adult basic education at the level that we need to. It 
is about skills. Yes, the high school diploma and equivalency 
is important, but we must find a way to put skills in front of 
these individuals so that they have the ability to get into the 
economy and to produce for their families.
    Ms. Houchin. I could not agree more. Thank you so much. I 
yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Ms. Stevens.
    Ms. Stevens. Thank you, Madame Chair. It is evident we have 
three great community college systems represented here today. 
LCTCC, we are very proud of your background, Dr. Sullivan. Ivy 
Tech, which I have gotten to know from my time in workforce 
development. Oakland Community College in Michigan, it is 
community college week in Washington, DC, and folks are talking 
about the skills gap.
    Now, in the 116th Congress, we introduced the College 
Affordability Act as a democratic majority, which included the 
expanded programs. I was just outside talking to our community 
college friends from Michigan about this. Dr. Sullivan, I was 
wondering if you could extrapolate on this opportunity of 
expanding PELL for some of the short-term work programs to get 
people into skills and employment opportunities?
    Dr. Sullivan. First of all, thank you for the question. 
This is an area where it is clear that we have bipartisan 
support. When you think about the number of individuals 
stranded in this economy, 60 million individuals who do not 
have the skills needed in order to be able to get that first 
job, we have a point-in-time opportunity to change the 
trajectory of millions of Americans and ensure that they get 
back into the economy.
    When you think about being down 5 percentage points 
workforce participation, think of the millions of people that 
are impacted. Think of the millions of young people that are 
impacted. I would say to you this, the best teaching for young 
people is to watch their parents. Let us give those parents an 
opportunity to be educated and skilled at a level that allows 
them to provide for their children and their family. That is 
the greatest education a young person can see.
    Ms. Stevens. Well, this is a great action item for us in 
the 118th Congress and a way to come together. As we talk about 
the American Education in Crisis, we know that our waivers for 
free and reduced lunch that were expanded during the pandemic 
have expired and we have 10 million students at risk of going 
hungry.
    My father was a public-school teacher and often brought 
culinary into his classroom to meet those needs. We know that 
96 percent of school systems in this country are now saying 
that they are experiencing debt. Obviously, Mrs. Gentles, I 
note in your testimony you had a brief section talking about 
the worsening school climate and I was just wondering if you 
could validate that not having the moneys for schools to 
provide free and reduced lunch is contributing to that 
worsening school climate?
    Mrs. Gentles. I am not sure what you are talking about. I 
apologize as far as not having----
    Ms. Stevens. You are not sure what I am talking about 
regarding providing free and reduced lunch, and the fact that 
we do not have waivers, and schools are incurring debt as a 
result? It has been in the news a lot.
    Mrs. Gentles. The fact that schools are going into debt 
because they do not have their free and reduced-price lunch 
funding. No, I am sorry. I am not familiar with that.
    Ms. Stevens. Well, we would be happy to exchange with you 
on that. Certainly, I know in your brief section in your 
testimony dedicated to the worsening school climate one would 
oblige that not having the moneys to provide lunches.
    Which Mr. Polis, our great Governor of Colorado, you have 
implemented some tremendous programs for the pandemic relief 
and for providing free and reduced lunch and I was wondering if 
you could share with us specifically some of the results that 
you are seeing in Colorado.
    Governor Polis. Yes. Of course, we, like most states, took 
advantage of the extended free lunch during the pandemic. We 
now have chosen, starting next fall, to move forward with free 
lunch for everybody and free breakfast as well. What that means 
is, of course, it is optional. Some parents want to pack lunch. 
That is fine. Removes any stigma associated with school lunch 
and frankly reduces a lot of paperwork and overhead associated 
with who pays what and who does what. It makes it a lot easier, 
freeing up school resources to be used on teacher pay and 
classroom instruction.
    First and foremost, making schools have the--kids have the 
nutrition they need to succeed if they do not get those healthy 
meals at home, reducing overhead and bureaucratic waste, and 
saving families money on lunches.
    Ms. Stevens. You have a ballot measure cooking to alleviate 
the burden of filling out school meal applications and to 
assure that no child falls through the cracks. This is 
something that we hear a lot, the stigma, the shame. Could you 
speak about that ballot measure?
    Governor Polis. With the free lunches? Yes. There are no 
longer any forms associated with it, which had always been an 
issue, especially for non-English-speaking families, for 
families that value their privacy. You know all these sorts of 
nosy government questions just to get the lunch. You no longer 
have to answer those. It would be either lunch provided to 
everybody. If you want to take advantage of it, you can. There 
is no check card you need. There is no stigma associated with 
it and it will save every family who wants to participate in 
that the cost of school lunch.
    Ms. Stevens. Feed our kids, educate America. Thank you, 
Madame Chair. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. Mr. Grothman, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Grothman. Mr. Pulsipher, western Governors deliver an 
education through competency-based education model. I would 
like you to elaborate that a little bit and see what we can do 
to amend the Higher Ed Act to accommodate that or your opinion 
of the benefits of it.
    Mr. Pulsipher. Sure. You know over a century ago we kind 
established and codified a credit hour into our system of 
higher education and something that started really as a way for 
faculty to accrue hours and get paid became somehow a measure 
of learning.
    Well, competency-based takes a very different approach, 
which is it tries to keep the standard for learning, meaning 
the proficiency against a particular learning outcome like that 
is actually what determines that you have developed the 
competency that is necessary to complete the course.
    When you design around that model, it allows a couple 
things that I will just highlight. First and foremost, it 
allows you to more directly align the learning outcomes with 
the work and that which they need to be readied for. Second, it 
actually allows you personalized learning, such that an 
individual can leverage that which they may already be quite 
skilled in and can move quite quickly through that, and they 
can dedicate more time and attention to the things that they 
need to focus on, and may have less preparedness in. At the end 
of the day, what you can determine with a competent-based 
approach is that every individual has been assessed and 
validated proficient against those learning outcomes.
    The last thing I would say on this, Representative 
Grothman, is that competency-based education is not new. If you 
talk about any licensure area, in medicine, in law, in the 
practice of nursing, even in accountancy, all these individuals 
have to meet proficiency standards. Well, the same can apply in 
higher education as a practice.
    Mr. Grothman. It would seem to make common sense that you 
would focus more on people--on what people know and how long 
they have been sitting at a desk; does it seem that way?
    Mr. Pulsipher. Yes. It certainly seems--I often like to say 
that virtually every one of us who may have gone to a 
conventional model already personally experienced competence-
based education. You can think of that course where you 
realized that I did not need to sit through all the lectures, 
but I had to wait until the end of the term to take the final.
    What competency-based education allows is that individual, 
when they actually are ready, and can take their assessments 
and pass those assessments, they are done with that course, and 
they can progress. We have seen that, one, increase the 
personalization. Two, it also reduces the time that students 
need to acquire their degree.
    Mr. Grothman. Save some costs too, right?
    Mr. Pulsipher. A lot of cost when a bachelor's candidate 
can finish their degree program in two and a half years versus 
four, you are significantly reducing the cost to attain the 
credential they need.
    Mr. Grothman. We will switch over here to Virginia Gentles. 
There are some numbers before me here that even I am shocked at 
and I do not think I could be shocked. It says here among 
English teachers there are 97 Democrats for every 3 Republicans 
and among health teachers 99 Democrats for every Republican. I 
think it is accurate to say in this country we are divided 
about 50/50, right, every Presidential election, maybe 51/49 or 
something. Overall, 87 Democrats for every 13 Republicans.
    I am not a big one on all this diversity stuff, but I do 
think, say when you are picking out novels for kids to read and 
novels a lot of times have a message in them, you would expect 
about 50/50 as far as English teachers, History teachers, what 
have you, but it is not that way at all. I think that is one of 
the major reasons why there is such a lack of support for 
education today among some people. Could you comment on that a 
little bit as to how this happens and what we can do to turn it 
around and can we ever be considered to getting a holistic 
education if we have so many teachers on one side of the 
ideological spectrum to even have a good school.
    Mrs. Gentles. Well, I am a product of public education, K 
through 12, growing up in Florida and I am happy to say I have 
absolutely no idea what the partisan affiliation of any single 
teacher that I had growing up. I think one solution would be to 
create an emphasis in the classroom on academics rather than on 
activism and ensure that teachers are reminded that it is not 
appropriate to bring in their partisan approach to the 
classroom.
    Another approach would be to make the teaching profession 
welcoming to people of all different political persuasions.
    Mr. Grothman. I do not mean to cut you off. To me, the 
problem is even if you say you are being non-ideological every 
novel has a message in it, right? If you are a hardcore 
Democrat, you want to give the kids a different message than 
more of a traditional person. What can we do to get back to 50/
50? When I went to college, by the way, I remember--you can 
tell how old I am. I would say half the teachers in the school 
had Join McGovern buttons on, so I know what was going on 
there.
    Yes, can you think of any way we can get back to say in 
English literature about a 50/50 split here.
    Mrs. Gentles. Again, I think that the teaching profession 
needs to be welcoming to people of all different perspectives. 
When you have the environment right now that encourages 
teachers to keep secrets from parents there are people of maybe 
a more conservative persuasion that are not comfortable with 
that and they are not going to want to stay in the teaching 
profession or join the profession. Perhaps if the profession is 
more inclusive of a wide range of values and includes more 
conservative values there either might be more of a balance.
    Chairwoman Foxx. The gentleman's time has expired. Ms. 
Manning, you are recognized.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you, Madame Chair. I want to associate 
myself with the earlier remarks of my colleague, Mr. Takano. It 
is concerning that extremists are being given a platform in the 
Congress of the United States to spread misinformation and 
disinformation by citing antidotal incidence or by citing their 
own articles of evidence to back up their misinformation about 
what is going on, in general, in our schools.
    This is a serious body that has important work to do for 
the American people and America's children. We have real issues 
to deal with and that is what my constituents sent me here to 
address. I do appreciate the focus and discussion today about 
the critically important issue of apprenticeship programs and 
technical training programs in community colleges. These types 
of educational opportunities are particularly critical to my 
district where we are now seeing the growth of good-paying jobs 
in advanced manufacturing that require education beyond high 
school.
    Governor Polis, the Public Workforce Development Systems 
can only be successful if employees see value in engaging with 
these systems. Given your experience working with employers in 
your State, do you think the Workforce Systems are providing 
value to employers and are their key areas that need to be 
strengthened?
    Governor Polis. Applaud the work of Careerwise now helping 
to link the employer side in Colorado and several other states. 
We, as a State, see value in this and I believe in putting our 
money where our mouth is, meaning we, ourselves, as a State we 
have now partnered with apprenticeship in several of our State 
agencies to be able to make sure that we can benefit from the 
work of individuals who are getting an education while they do 
it.
    We see the benefit. So many private sector employers across 
our State increasing numbers--I am happy to submit the list of 
participating employers to the Committee--are seeing the 
benefit because when I talk to CEOs, chief H.R. officers in 
many of the major employers in our State the No. 1 issue they 
bring up is always how do we attract and retain the talent we 
need to succeed? They see apprenticeships and these kinds of 
models as a key strategy of achieving their own goals of making 
sure they can track and retain the people they need to continue 
their success.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you. Are there ways you think employers 
could do more to support workers, especially those with 
barriers to employment in lifelong learning?
    Governor Polis. I think now is an excellent time to have 
that conversation because more than ever employers are really 
looking and thinking out of the box about how they can meet 
their workforce needs. In Colorado, we have two jobs that are 
open for every unemployed person, and I know there are many 
jurisdictions across the country, that have a similar dilemma. 
Now is the time to really convene, as we have in Colorado, many 
of the key employers. That means at the county level, it means 
at the State level, at the regional level, and really talk 
about how we could improve the pipeline of talent to further 
their success.
    We are looking at aligning our workforce dollars, some of 
which are ARPA dollars, with meeting the needs of the growing 
private sector in our State.
    Ms. Manning. I met with one of the leaders of one of our 
great community colleges just yesterday and talked to her about 
what we can do to get more older students, students with 
families back into the system. She talked about needs, 
including childcare, transportation, nutritional benefits, and 
mental health issues.
    Unfortunately, some across the aisle feel that these 
investments should be cut. You noted in your testimony that 
wraparound services are a part of Colorado's investments in the 
workforce. Do you feel that these services have increased 
retention and increased the number of people who can come into 
these workforce development programs?
    Governor Polis. Without a doubt, making sure that people 
can get to workforce training programs helps improve 
participation for those for whom transportation was a barrier 
that they could not overcome on their own. We are also 
partnering with our community colleges and colleges to provide 
additional onsite childcare opportunities.
    By the way, that benefits their workforce as well as the 
students. Both for attracting and retaining the support staff 
they need as an institution as well as for the students, the 
availability of lower-cost onsite daycare is critical.
    Ms. Manning. That is great to hear. I am going to stick 
with you, and I am going to ask you one more question and that 
is about one of the real crises in our schools and that is 
youth mental health. You noted in your testimony that Colorado 
is expanding mental health support for students and offering 
free therapy sessions with mental health professionals.
    As your administration has begun implementing these 
programs, have you seen an impact on student populations?
    Governor Polis. Yes. The demand has been huge. Getting the 
word out, particularly, for students who otherwise have 
barriers to access. That can be geographic, it can be a rural 
area, it can be a cultural or familial barrier where they do 
not know where to go or who to ask for help and really making 
it easy and convenient has absolutely help lead to improved 
learning outcomes as well as helped make sure that we have a 
safer State.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you. I am not sure if I am going to get 
a gold star, but I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. I told you we are working on some kind of 
recognition to you. Mr. Bean, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Bean. Thank you very much, Dr. Foxx. Good afternoon to 
you and good afternoon to the Education and Workforce 
Committee. It is good to see everybody. Dr. Foxx, I am going to 
give you a gold star because you have shined the spotlight on a 
crisis. It is in education.
    I come from the free State of Florida where I have served 
10 years on the frontlines of legislating ways to improve 
education, empower parents, and really focus on results. Some 
of the legislation has been talked about in the Committee, and 
I am going to talk about it back to let you know the real story 
of what we have done in the State of Florida.
    Now, do not trust me. Go look at our state's report card, 
or you can look at parents who have voted with their feet to 
come to the State of Florida with the reason being they wanted 
their kids back in school. That is what they wanted. In the 
free State of Florida, what we discovered is education and kids 
do better when there is live instruction. They do better when 
schools are open. They do better when parents are involved and 
empowered. They do better, as Governor Polis said, when there 
is choice, because all kids are, in fact, different. They also 
do better when there is more time focused on the things that 
matter.
    A couple of the legislation bills that were talked about is 
the so-called Don't Say Gay bill, which has nothing to do with 
anything about gay or anything the other opponents want to say 
about it. What it does say, and I wish I could name the bill. 
In fact, let us do it right now. There is a new name for that 
bill and it is called Let Kids be Kids bill because there is no 
reason whatsoever that we should be teaching sex or any of 
the--we should not be teaching sex to kindergarteners, first, 
second, third graders. That is what that bill says. Let us 
teach age-appropriate things.
    Hey, let us teach things--subjects that matter, Reading, 
Writing, Arithmetic. The so-called CRT, we have said no in the 
State of Florida, no to CRT. There is no value. There is no 
value to teach kids to hate each other based on race. There is 
no value in teaching kids to feel guilty just because they are 
of a certain race or persuasion. Let us teach them--here is a 
novel idea. Let us teach them Reading or Math or Science.
    My first question--and I have got questions for every 
single one of you. That is, Mrs. Gentles, what can we do--and 
this is new to me on a Federal level because this is--the 
action is at the states, but what can we do on a Federal level 
to help states, like the free State of Florida, better their 
education system?
    Mrs. Gentles. Well, we certainly need to celebrate states 
like Florida, who were success stories when it came to the NAEP 
scores and success stories for keeping schools open and 
ensuring that academics are at the center.
    A big thing that the Committee can do is support school 
choice legislation that does happen at the Federal level for 
states who are very different than Florida and do not have an 
array of options. Ensuring that charter school programs receive 
sufficient funding, taking a look at that education tax credit 
program that would provide options for students in states that 
do not have robust choice programs. That is definitely 
something that can be done at the Federal level.
    Then again, reminding parents of their rights under PPRA, 
under FERPA, ensuring that states and districts are not lying 
to parents about what Title IX does and does not do. That 
should be something that the Committee could do.
    Mr. Bean. Mrs. Gentles, thank you so much. That is the 
right answer, the answer that I was hoping for to continue to 
push states. I am running out of time. I have got a question 
for everybody. Let us make it a multiple-choice, toss-up 
question for everybody and that is it. I am thinking about a 
bill, our last meeting, our roundtable was Dr. Foxx did a focus 
on the disaster we call the Student Loan Program. How can we 
fix it? My thought is, what if we did a bill that said a 
college has to cosign for the loan so colleges are involved 
whether that loan is made. Is that a good idea, a bad idea, or 
an idea worth exploring, Mr. Pulsipher?
    Mr. Pulsipher. Thank you for that question. I think that 
there certainly are ways by which if you increase institutional 
accountability or risk sharing in the cost of attaining a 
degree that would increase the incentive to control the cost of 
attaining a degree.
    Mr. Bean. Good idea. Thank you. Governor Polis, good idea, 
worth exploring? Hurry.
    Governor Polis. Hello, from the free State of Colorado. 
Aligning incentives to outcomes, there is a lot in Mr. 
Pulsipher's testimony about that and I generally agree with the 
directions that he indicated in his testimony.
    Mr. Bean. Good idea. Thank you so much.
    Dr. Sullivan.
    Dr. Sullivan. Not a big student loan participants in terms 
of our students because our price point is relatively low. I 
would say to you we already have Title IV provisions that 
require institutions to be partners in the form of Return to 
Title IV. I would suggest to you it is probably not a bad idea.
    Mr. Bean. Thank you. Yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. Ms. Wild, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Wild. Thank you, Madame Chairwoman. I am not sure I am 
going to get a gold star here, but I am going to try. I was 
encouraged when I read the testimonies of the witnesses getting 
ready for this hearing because I found a number of points of 
agreement with each of you. In fact, much of this hearing has 
addressed points of agreement, but there are a few areas that I 
really need to hone in on.
    I want to make a couple of observations at the outset. Here 
I am as almost the last witness or the last person to question, 
so I have heard a lot in the course of this hearing and my 
observations, first of all, to my colleague and to anybody who 
believes otherwise, CRT, otherwise known as Critical Race 
Theory, is not taught in the K to 12 schools, ever. This is a 
talking point that has been used by the opposition party to try 
to inflame parents and people and it is simple not done. We 
need to stop talking about it.
    No. 2, there is a reference in at least one testimony to 
cruel COVID-era closures of schools. I would like to point out 
that the COVID-era closure of schools started under President 
Trump, and I am not suggesting that it was inappropriate, but 
this seems to be something that is consistently blamed on the 
Biden Administration and Democrats and it is very important to 
note that the schools were closed in roughly March 2020 when 
President Trump was still President.
    Third, I have heard a lot of comments about teachers and 
teacher unions. I have read a lot about in the testimony almost 
suggesting that they are the root of all problems in our 
schools. It was refreshing when we were going through COVID and 
so many of these kids were learning at home online. It was so 
refreshing to hear parents say now I really appreciate my kids' 
teachers because they understood just what a challenge it is to 
teach. Those are my observations.
    Onto the points of agreement, Dr. Sullivan, I agree with 
your testimony that PELL needs to be expanded to include 
workforce programs. Mr. Pulsipher, I agree that Higher Ed must 
meet the needs of the workforce and that Higher Ed must create 
value for the students and Higher Ed must be accessible, 
transferable, and equitable. I just want you to know all the 
things I agree with you on.
    Mrs. Gentles, I agree with you that far too many forces 
within the education system insist on prioritizing the 
promotion of ideologies over academic instruction. I agree with 
you that we need oversight and accountability of emergency 
Federal funding to schools, and I think the Biden 
Administration is actually doing that oversight and 
accountability of those funds. I agree with you that far too 
many classrooms are chaotic and sorely in need of programs that 
support mental health and discipline.
    We do disagree, however, on where these ideologies that you 
spoke of are coming from. I will start by talking about the 
effort to ban books in public school districts across our 
country. We have heard from Pan America that 138 school 
districts across 32 states banned books from the Summer of 2021 
to the Summer of 2022. These bans affected 4 million students 
nationwide.
    Forty-one percent of the banned books over this time period 
featured LGBT themes or characters, 40 percent featured 
characters of color, 21 percent dealt with issues of race and 
racism. Do you believe that all those books in those categories 
should be banned? That is just a yes or no question.
    Mrs. Gentles. No, I am not a supporter of book bans.
    Ms. Wild. Okay. Good, then you probably would agree with me 
then that this nationwide movement to prohibit students from 
reading certain books is an attempt at ideological 
indoctrination in our public education system, which was 
exactly what your testimony did not want to see?
    Mrs. Gentles. I would want to point out that the books that 
are being brought up and questioned, not banned, but questioned 
are generally of very sexually explicit in nature, regardless 
of the other themes, and the focus or the main characters in 
those books, the sexual explicit nature of the books, 
particularly, when you are talking about graphic novels that 
are aimed at younger, emerging readers, those are the primary 
concern.
    Ms. Wild. I think we could probably agree that sexually 
explicit materials should not be given to young elementary 
school students. Can we agree that it is important with older 
students to teach the skill of critical thinking?
    Mrs. Gentles. We absolutely agree that critical thinking is 
important.
    Ms. Wild. Okay. Meaning the ability to look at a situation, 
weigh the evidence, look at the trustworthiness of a source, 
particularly now with rampant social media that spreads all 
kinds of things, and arrive at a person's own conclusions based 
on the evidence. You like that idea?
    Mrs. Gentles. Absolutely.
    Ms. Wild. Okay. This is best done by exposing people, and I 
am not talking about four and 5-year-old, this is best done by 
exposing people to exposing people to different ideas, teaching 
them about the sources, and letting them evaluate the evidence. 
True?
    Mrs. Gentles. Yes.
    Ms. Wild. Okay. In general, would you----
    Chairwoman Foxx. Your time has expired.
    Ms. Wild. Yes. I told you I was not going to get a gold 
star. Thank you. I yield.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. I am going to give Mr. Kiley a 
gold star for being here and being so patient today, because he 
has sat through this entire hearing waiting to be--oh, Ms. 
Hayes too. Okay.
    Mr. Kiley. Happy to share the gold star.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. You are recognized.
    Mr. Kiley. Governor Polis, thanks very much for being here 
today. I believe you are the founder of a charter school 
yourself, is that right?
    Governor Polis. That is correct, two.
    Mr. Kiley. Two charter schools and you have been a strong 
supporter of charters in Colorado. As you know, after President 
Biden took office the Administration almost immediately set out 
to target charter schools with proposed rules that, as you put 
it, would ``gut the Federal charter schools' program.'' You 
wrote a letter to Secretary Cardona, in which you said you 
strongly oppose the Department of Education's proposed new 
rules.
    Now, I have to say, when you were asked about this earlier 
you seemed to hedge a little bit by saying that while different 
states have different authorizing laws, there was no hedging in 
this letter. You celebrated the national impact of charter 
schools. You wrote ``Around the country public charter schools 
are making a difference in students' lives. During the 2020/
2021 school year, nearly 240,000 new students enrolled in 
charter schools across the country.''
    You also wrote in this letter ``It is confounding and 
deeply disturbing that the Department of Education would even 
want to consider making the opening of high-quality charter 
schools considerably more difficult than ever before. Our 
students need more public school options and high-quality 
charter schools play a critical role in providing that 
access.''
    I do not want to put you in a tough spot. I am coming at 
this from someone who is very interested in bipartisan 
education. I am a former high school teacher myself, very 
interested in working on a bipartisan basis to expand 
educational opportunity, to expand high-quality public school 
options, to close achievement gaps, and I have now found some 
partners on the other side of the aisle. I hope to have the 
chance to collaborate with you as well.
    I have to say it has been few and far between with many in 
your party, it is like running into a brick wall. The only 
interest they have in charters is how to harass them, how to 
target them, how to get rid of them. In my State, California, 
the Governor and super majority have been condemned time and 
time again by Civil Rights groups for their relentless attacks 
on charter schools.
    You are the chosen witness here of the minority at today's 
hearing. I just wanted to get your help in understanding why do 
you think so many elected officials in your party are hospital 
to charter schools?
    Governor Polis. Well, I do not think that--I do not see 
charter schools as a partisan issue. In our State, about 15.2 
percent of kids who go to public schools go to attend a public 
charter school. I founded a charter school for new immigrants 
and English language learners and one for kids who were 
experiencing insecurity in housing.
    Again, I was pleased with the final rule. Again, while I 
did not think the rule was necessary from the Department of 
Education, it did incorporate many of the changes that I 
suggested, that others suggested involving charter schools. 
This is around a funding stream that specifically supports new 
charter schools and it is very important. I helped write some 
of the legislation when I was here around that piece of the 
Every Student Succeeds Act and it is really important to 
support innovation. I think it is a high return investment. It 
is a small dollar amount, high return.
    It is also important to note that every idea is going to 
work out and that is Okay, just as every charter school does 
not work out, every new district initiative does not work out, 
but if you are not trying to do something different, then you 
are doing things the same way.
    Mr. Kiley. I am sorry. My time is limited, so I just want 
to get back to the question.
    Governor Polis. Sure.
    Mr. Kiley. It has become a partisan issue as this 
Administration almost immediately went after charter schools. 
As you well know, the opposition of charter schools largely 
comes from the other side of the dais. We have heard some 
comments today. I want to get your thoughts on this. Why has it 
become a partisan issue? I agree with you, it should not be.
    Governor Polis. Well, again, President Obama was very 
supportive of high-quality charter schools. I have every reason 
to believe the Biden Administration is also supportive of high-
quality charter schools that improve equity and access. I think 
what they are pointing out, and again, I do not always agree 
with everything that they have said, they are more concerned 
about the equity and access piece. I think it is complicated 
how charter schools affect equity and access. It depends on the 
particular charter school, depends on the attendance, depends 
on the recruitment.
    Yes, some states and some school districts have better or 
worse authorizing laws than others. We are proud of our 
authorizing laws in Colorado, and we hope to improve them even 
more.
    Mr. Kiley. Do you have any other theories as to why it is 
that in some states we have overwhelming opposition to charters 
from one side of the aisle?
    Governor Polis. Well, there are certainly states that have 
worse charter authorizing laws. Frankly, they have had some 
negative experiences with charters that we have not seen in 
Colorado. In Colorado, we have seen them as a very 
constructive, innovative part of public education, and there is 
enormous demand for differentiated programs. By the way, 
districts have learned from practices in charter schools and 
districts have improved and offered new programming in district 
schools as well.
    Mr. Kiley. Well, thank you. I appreciate your commitment to 
doing the right thing for students, and I would encourage you 
to have conversations with some who are less willing to take 
that same approach.
    Chairwoman Foxx. All right. Thank you very much. Ms. Omar, 
you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Omar. Thank you, Chairwoman. I wanted to enter this 
article into the record from the Florida Phoenix. I know the 
gentleman is no longer here, but he was----
    Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
    Ms. Omar. Thank you.
    [The information of Ms. Omar follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Omar. He was speaking to how wonderful Florida was 
doing in regard to education, and I just wanted this record to 
be entered into the record, just 17 percent of eighth graders 
were proficient in Math in Florida, and 6 percent were 
considered advanced in the subject in 2022.
    I think it is really important for us to be able to share 
actual facts in Committees. When it came to Reading, 70 percent 
of eighth graders that were tested were not proficient in 
Reading according to these results.
    Now, Governor Polis, from the free State of Colorado, I 
greet you as someone who represents the free State of 
Minnesota. I wanted to talk to you a little bit as both a 
parent, someone who sat on this Committee, and someone who now 
is a Governor. As a mom of four children who are in the fifth 
grade to juniors in high school and one sophomore in college, 
is there anything that is prohibiting parents from being 
involved in their children that you are aware of outside of 
time constraints that you and I might have?
    Governor Polis. I think that language can sometimes be a 
barrier and many of our school districts are taking great 
proactive approaches to----
    Ms. Omar. Do you know of any laws that say a parent cannot 
show up to PTA meetings----
    Governor Polis. No.
    Ms. Omar [continuing]. Or to school board meetings?
    Governor Polis. To the contrary, we are really focused on 
how we can get parents more involved.
    Ms. Omar. Yes. I participated in PTA meetings. I also was a 
guardian for two of my nieces. I went to almost all the school 
board hearings when my kids were younger before I got elected 
to Congress. I am sure you were involved or would love to be as 
involved. You probably would try to go on all the field trips, 
talk to all the teachers. My dad was actually notorious for 
showing up to my school, sitting in the back of the classrooms 
when I was in high school to the point that it drove me and my 
classmates insane.
    I am not aware of, as you have just said, any decisions 
that are being made by lawmakers here in Congress, by local 
lawmakers that is saying we do not want parents' input. We do 
not want parents' involvement. We do not want parents' 
engagement in our schools. I just hope that we put this 
argument that is not based on the actual facts that are taking 
place in our communities to be put to rest.
    I also wanted to congratulate you on some of the work that 
you are doing about addressing mental health issues in your 
State. Some of the ways in which you are using the bipartisan 
Safer Communities Act that we passed. Our State is also doing 
some incredible work in regard to higher education. I know that 
you talk about the importance of holding institutions 
accountable for deceitful practices. Your former colleague, 
Attorney General Pete Ellison, shut down a company that was 
fraudulently promising student loan forgiveness to Minnesotans, 
who often these types of practices target veterans. They target 
immigrants. They target the most vulnerable.
    On the 4-years that I have sat on this Committee, we have 
done a lot of work on accountable for these types of practices 
and I am proud of what we have been able to accomplish, and I 
am pleased to see that the Administration is working on gainful 
employment regulations. From your perspective, why is the 
Federal Government accountable important in higher education?
    Governor Polis. It is important, of course, from the 
Federal perspective and Congress's perspective because these 
are taxpayer dollars that you are custodians of. It is 
important from the customer's perspective, the individual who's 
benefiting, so that they have the knowledge and the data to 
back it up that the time and effort that they are putting in to 
better their lives will actually produce better earning 
outcomes and a better life for them and that they do not fall 
subject to a scam or somebody's attempt to take their money.
    Ms. Omar. Well, thank you. Again, I will say this is the 
Education Committee. We should be factual and talk about the 
truth. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Mr. DeSaulnier, you are recognized for 5 
minutes and I am going to avoid responding to that right now?
    Mr. DeSaulnier. To the 5-minutes? No, forget it. Well, 
thank you, Madame Chair. Thank you, Ranking Member. Thank you 
for this hearing. Thank you to the panelists and Governor, it 
is delightful to see you. You are triggering fond memories of a 
field trip that we took to the Bay area when you were on the 
Committee. I do not know if the Chair remembers our 
conversation when we were waiting for a ride on a street corner 
in San Francisco, but we'll leave that for another venue.
    Governor Polis, I want to talk about just following up on 
the questions about outcomes as a former employer, some of the 
comments about making sure that we are getting people trained 
for the workforce and transparency in data collection. We have 
some support for the transparency, Higher Education Act, so 
that we make sure that the data is collected, and we have that 
to prove the outcomes. I wonder if you have any comments on 
that.
    Governor Polis. I think the next iteration and in 
generation and outcomes, of course, traditional measurements, 
job placement, loan repayment rates are very helpful and 
constructive. I think the next generation will be looking at 
return on investment in ROI and seeing how you can maximize the 
ROI from both time and dollars in terms of increased earning 
potential from the beneficiary.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. Okay. I want to ask you some questions on a 
different subject matter that you have touched on specifically 
about ESSER funding and ARP, and the requirements to 5 percent 
and the 1 percent that we hold back. We know in states like 
California, where I am from, we did a lot of work. I led a 
bicameral and bipartisan taskforce on intersession and summer 
learning loss, and nutritional loss around the State. We have 
worked with, on a bipartisan level to make sure that we 
extended the school year in California, and other states have 
like Colorado, and we gave also provided more year-round 
afterschool programs.
    It was a big issue for Governor Schwarzenegger and now in 
California, that we have free and reduced lunches with high 
nutritional standards, year-round, that the State pays for, 
largely. I wonder if you could talk about--we were prepared, in 
a way, not for the level of the pandemic, but we already knew 
about what we would lose when the kids were not in the 
classroom. There are other options within the system that we 
are working on that increase performance, particularly for 
disadvantaged communities.
    You have demonstrated leadership in your State on this 
issue. It does not have to be all about the COVID experience. 
We have learned lessons and the model has changed, so the 
social model, two income households, kids out of school with 
more time alone. Maybe you could address your experience in 
Colorado with positive outcomes.
    Governor Polis. First, it is very important to highlight 
that these types of innovations that California has undertaken, 
that Colorado has, and many states have would not have been 
possible without the American Rescue Act, without ESSER. That 
is what really empowered states to be able to say let us 
increase learning time, which is a very data-driven 
intervention. That is probably the single biggest utilization 
of funds, different ways of increasing learning time. It could 
be after school, summer programs, longer school year, these all 
take resources and take investment.
    The revenue, of course, from our school districts was 
static to some even, of course, down during the midst of the 
pandemic. Really, these types of proven data-driven 
interventions that we know will improve student achievement 
would not have been possible without congressional action that 
we are very grateful there.
    Now, that is the biggest bulk of it. On top of that, 
deployment of resources to address mental health challenges of 
students to make sure they are ready to learn. We talked about 
the nutritional element as well, housing security, a number of 
other social determinants of successful educational outcomes, 
but the single biggest is just the very traditional time on 
task, data driven, it works. Spending quality time learning 
Math, learning Reading helps the students get there.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. I appreciate that. We were able to get a 
bill that I was the author of out of the House, Mental Health 
Matters Act. The Chairman and I have had discussions about this 
when she was the Ranking Member. I look forward to engaging my 
colleagues on the other side on what we do about developing a 
workforce around mental health, particularly, for young people. 
Yes, I just really appreciate the comments. Madame Chair, I 
always look forward to positive reinforcement for you, so I am 
going to yield back with 40 seconds left.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Another gold star. Hurrah. I am going to 
recognize the Ranking Member of the Committee now for 5 
minutes. Mr. Scott.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you, Madame Chair. Governor, it is good to 
see you back. I remember when you were a member of this 
Committee you had kind things to say about Early Childhood 
education. You mentioned that the childcare aspects of it would 
benefit the parents. Could you say a word about the long-term 
benefits to the student?
    Governor Polis. Yes. Several long-term longitudinal studies 
that have taken place over decades and saw the tremendous 
benefit of Early Childhood education often to the tune of 7 to 
$12 for every dollar invested in quality Early Childhood 
education. Where do those benefits come from? Better high 
school graduation rates, lower youth adjudication rates, less 
interactions with law enforcement, safer, higher earning 
potential, so a number of benefits have been shown from not 
just preschool and kindergarten, but quality birth to four as 
well to make sure that all kids have the advantage that some 
kids have of parents reading to them, of word spoken, of books 
discussed, and that is important to bring to more children to 
address this achievement gap before it occurs. It is harder to 
address in third grade and fifth grade than it is to prevent it 
from occurring in the first place.
    Mr. Scott. Along those lines, I remember one thing you said 
that you were on a study committee when you were in the State 
senate and concluded we are talking about high school 
achievement and the best way to improve high school achievement 
was to put all your money into Early Childhood education and 
wait 10 years.
    Governor Polis. You have an excellent memory, Mr. Ranking 
Member, so yes, the preface to the report. Of course, it is no 
excuse not to reform our high schools now and we want to 
improve them, but they will look much better and perform much 
better if every child gets a strong Early Childhood education.
    Mr. Scott. Can you say a word about the importance of 
assessments and accountability in K through 12?
    Governor Polis. Yes, assessment and accountability are 
critical and that is one of the major deficiencies in some of 
these so-called choice models in states like Arizona where we 
will not even know, as a State, as country, what works, what 
leads to increased student achievement and what does not. It is 
important in Higher Ed. It is important in K-12.
    If we are all about, and a number of members on both sides 
of the aisle have said, let us make sure kids learn Math, 
Reading, Writing. That is what we should focus on. We need to 
make sure we know whether they are achieving at grade level in 
those areas. Therefore, while no one enjoys assessment, it is 
really important to make sure that we are accountable for all 
students and that we can address persistent achievement gaps 
that occur along racial lines, along income lines, along 
geographic lines, and that we can have strategies to address 
those.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. Mr. Sullivan, you mentioned the 
short-term PELL legislation that's pending now. You did not 
mention last year the House passed a short-term PELL bill that 
was a specific amendment to the Competes bill. The short-term 
PELL had overwhelming Democratic support. The Competes bill 
passed with overwhelming Democratic support, but it did not 
survive. You have heard from this side there is strong support.
    You have also heard there are some problems with the for-
profit and what we do not want to happen is we have short-term 
PELLs, and you set up some little storefront operations that 
deal out worthless credentials and take all the PELL money. My 
question is how would you differentiate the good programs from 
the bad programs?
    Dr. Sullivan. Great question. Thank you for your leadership 
around Workforce PELL and with this group, this body in the 
past. I want to take a step back for 1 second and I would 
really like for you to think about, within the context of 
Workforce PELL we are opening up opportunities for people to be 
able to be educated in a shorter period of time. I know I have 
said that a couple of times, but it is so very important.
    Mr. Scott. We agree on that. Our community colleges 
programs, 6 to 16 weeks, tremendous programs. The question is 
if you open it up to everybody, you are going to be wasting a 
lot of money unless you have a screen that only appropriate 
vendors can get access to it and how do you separate the good 
from the bad?
    Mr. Sullivan. It is a matter of employment. It is a matter 
of earnings. It is about job demand. It is about ensuring that 
people get value from the experience. I would urge that we 
continue down the path on the accountability front. This issue 
is too be for America's public institutions only to solve, with 
60 million adults with a high school diploma or less.
    Mr. Scott. We are trying to write legislation. Let me ask 
the other witnesses if they would have a quick statement about 
how we can legislate that would divide the good from the bad.
    Mr. Pulsipher. I would echo the fact that you should look 
at value and cost rather than modality or method or delivery 
mode. We certainly do not believe that online, for example, is 
a great delimiter of quality. The number of individuals today 
who actually utilize the online mode, especially with public 
and private nonprofit institutions, like WGU, it is ultimately 
about whether that program is delivered at a cost relative to 
the value of that program in the marketplace.
    Mr. Scott. Can you legislate along those lines? We have got 
to write legislative language that separates the good from the 
bad, do you have examples of what we can use?
    Mr. Pulsipher. Yes, I certainly that you can utilize 
things, key results around how do students complete those 
programs, what is the attainment rate of jobs and opportunities 
of completeness of those programs and what was that value 
relative to the cost of actually completing the program. I 
think that increasing transparency and accountability at an 
institutional level is certainly possible.
    Chairwoman Foxx. I think the Chairman's question is very 
important. I am going to let it go on, but do not take too long 
please.
    Governor Polis. I will be brief. I applaud WTU for the 
absence of Federal criteria, really thoughtfully coming up with 
their own criteria and that could help form part of a template 
for what the Federal Government looks at to maximize return on 
investment from investments that are made.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. Madame Chair, I think you have heard 
from the answer that the for-profit/non-profit is not the split 
because there are some good for-profits and some bad non-
profits. We have got to figure out how to make sure that the 
money is being spent well, and I think we are in agreement on 
that. It is an important possibility that we can get done.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Yes, sir. That is why I wanted to let the 
questions go on.
    Mr. Scott. I thought so.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Mr. Courtney, you are recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Courtney. Thank you, Madame Chairwoman. Thank you to 
all the witnesses. I have been really kind of in and out here 
today and appreciate your patience and endurance here today.
    One area where American education that I believe is not in 
crisis, in fact, it is highly valued is anything particularly 
in the moment we're in, in terms of our economy, is career and 
technical education funding. The omnibus that we just passed 
actually boosted the CTE account by $100 million above last 
year. I come from a district, and the Governor remembers 
because we used to sit next to each other on this Committee a 
number of years ago, and my friend from Connecticut knows this. 
We have a shipyard that builds submarines, and the demand 
signal is off the chart in terms of the Columbia Class Program 
and the Virginia Class Program.
    The good news is that it is gone from about 7,000 to about 
13,000 workers. They have got to get up probably another 5,000. 
There are 1600 job openings, mostly in the metal trades, 
welding, electrician, sheet metal, you name it. The career and 
technical education programs that are there are completely 
packed with waiting lists. Secretary Cardona from Connecticut, 
who was a graduate from a tech school, came up and visited. 
Again, is a passionate believer that we have got to move this 
curriculum to comprehensive high school and that is actually 
what some of that new money that was in the Omnibus is going to 
be aimed at is in terms of trying to push that out.
    There is a problem, and the President talked about this 
last night, which is, so if you have a master welder teaching 
kids how to just do almost intro welding, the good news is, is 
that when these kids graduate, even at high school age, they 
are probably starting at about $50,000 a year, and in no time 
they are actually going to be making more money than the master 
welder who is teaching in the program there.
    Trying to find a way to get the right skillset in the 
welding booths to teach what is a critical occupation right now 
for the country in terms of these programs is going to require 
having to come up with a way to pay for the quality that you 
need. I do not know if you are running into this, Governor 
Polis, in Colorado, but in the CTE area almost all of them are 
teaching skills that you could go out right now in this his 
economy and make far more than you could as a teacher.
    Governor Polis. Yes, I agree with the focus on increased 
resources and investment in career and technical. There are 
also opportunities, as you discussed, WIOA for allowable use of 
funds while students are still in school, as well as looking at 
additional partnership with the private sector like we have 
through Careerwise where students are able to replace for earn 
while you learn models while they are working. In effect, a 
kind of apprenticeship model that can complement the 
traditional career and technical education model.
    Mr. Courtney. Again, Mr. Sullivan, I know this is in your 
space. I do not know if you had any comment, again, about 
trying to get the people in the classrooms.
    Mr. Sullivan. Thank you for the question and thank you for 
the focus on CTE. In particular, I mentioned earlier one of the 
more difficult parts of creating the capacity is identifying 
that faculty member. One of the things that we have done is 
worked with our industry partners. As someone begins to look at 
retirement, 6 months, 9 months prior to retirement from one of 
our business partners, being able to slide that individual over 
into the classroom and allowing them to teach and to be able to 
give back has been a really successful strategy for us. For 
that group they are not as concerned about the pay. They are 
concerned about giving back and so that has been a great 
strategy. What I know for certain is we do not have enough 
retirees to meet that capacity issue.
    Mr. Courtney. I was just going to chime in with that point 
because they are tapping into that same pool and a lot of them 
are just super passionate about mentoring and really teaching 
people that manufacturing is not a dirty sort of dismal job. 
The fact of the matter is, is that is a really unreliable pool. 
I mean we have to figure out a way, again, to get the people 
who have the talent. I mean welding an admiral who was down 
there once described a nuclear welder is about as skilled as a 
brain surgeon. I mean there is no margin for error when you are 
building a vessel that does not support human life.
    Again, I think it is just something we need to think about 
in terms of this question about 11 million job openings in the 
economy, highly concentrated in manufacturing, and how do we 
get people connected with the right teachers to make sure they 
can help the country and succeed for themselves. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Courtney. I will now 
recognize myself for 5 minutes. I have got three questions to 
ask, so I will ask you all to keep that in mind.
    Mr. Pulsipher, you brought out from both sides of the aisle 
the interest in ROI. It is clear that there is bipartisan 
support for that. Could you briefly describe how this metric 
could be applied in the broader, post-secondary context, risk 
sharing, performance bonuses offer, in demand, high quality 
credentials, just a few more points on what you brought up 
before.
    Governor Polis. The ones you touched upon, risk sharing is 
an excellent example--oh, sorry, Mr. Pulsipher.
    Mr. Pulsipher. Thank you, Chairwoman. I do think the more 
we can bring a spotlight to value the better. That is for sure. 
I would share with you some of the things that we have held 
ourselves accountable to. To increase value, you have to 
increase completion rates, so you have to look how well are 
students, who are beginning the program, completing the 
program. You then have to look at whether or not having 
completed that program, are they actually obtaining employment 
in the field of study, and are they achieving the economic 
return on that, and what does that look like for the students 
through that program.
    Third, you absolutely have to be able to look at the cost 
of completing that program. There is no doubt that in many 
programs today that the wage for--you know completeness of that 
program has not increased at the same rate the cost to achieve 
it has.
    I certainly believe that we can increase reporting and 
accountability at institution level for such metrics. We 
certainly can also involve the creditors in looking at 
institutions to present their plans to improve those outcomes. 
When we do so, we can give that information to students so they 
are making better choices about their future.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. I appreciate that. Mrs. 
Gentles, I want to go back to Mr. Bowman asking you a question 
about balance literacy and phonic-based reading instruction. 
There was a followup with Ms. Houchin. Mr. Bowman did not give 
you a chance to respond, but I know from my reading there is 
significant research showing what does and does not work when 
teaching kids to read. Could you respond to Mr. Bowman's 
argument that balanced literacy is an effective approach to 
reading instruction?
    Mrs. Gentles. Right, well, reading influences every aspect 
of life and we know that students are learning to read up until 
third grade and then from there they are reading to learn. 
Unfortunately, for too long there has been this balanced 
literacy approach that has taught children to read the wrong 
way and the queuing that we were briefly discussing is an 
important component of that, which essentially tells children 
to memorize some words, guess based on pictures and clues and 
context and then skip words that they are not familiar with. 
This guessing learning of reading is a huge reason that we have 
such abysmal literacy rates and fortunately, there is an effort 
to address this.
    What we heard as well today, is that children with dyslexia 
and other learning disability are the ones who are extremely 
harmed by this. Children with disabilities suffered in the 
COVID closures and they have suffered through these awful 
literacy programs that have been debunked and their needs to be 
prioritized going forward.
    Chairwoman Foxx. I am very pleased that we have Ms. Houchin 
on the Committee because I know she is going to bring some 
great wisdom to this issue, along with some others.
    Mr. Sullivan, I would like for you to--I have lost my 
questions. Goodness, gracious here. You have recommended 
addressing the problem of people not using WIOA, companies not 
using WIOA, you addressed the problem. You recommended 
improving coordination with the Higher Ed Act. Could you talk a 
little bit more about that and how we could have better 
coordination between the two systems and that would lead to 
more workers gaining in-demand skills.
    Mr. Sullivan. Thank you for the question. Let me begin by 
just pointing out that we have two primary funds in this Nation 
that fund talent, the PELL grant and WIOA. I have a question 
for you. Why would we keep them separate? We are trying to 
accomplish one workforce in this Nation and yet we are using 
funds from two different instruments that have lots of 
different prescriptive rules around them that make it 
exceptionally difficult to accomplish the goal that we have set 
out. At a minimum, a level of coordination that focuses the 
United States dollar on solving the issue at hand.
    Chairwoman Foxx. I am going to take a little point of 
personal privilege here to say I think everybody who is going 
into any kind of education program is looking to come out with 
a career. I have been preaching for a long time that whether 
you bet a baccalaureate degree, whether you get a diploma, 
whether you get a certificate, you are in career education and 
I dislike very much separating one kind of education from 
another kind of education.
    I have talked about that a lot because, again, I was 
getting an English degree. I wanted a job. If you are going 
into learning to weld, you want a job. I think it is really 
terrible that we are separating people that way and so I really 
appreciate you bringing that up and giving me the opportunity 
to respond to that. I do think it is something we have to 
really focus on, and I think talking more about short-term PELL 
and how we can help people gain skills that will lead them to a 
career, whether it involves a baccalaureate degree or Master's 
degree, or Doctorate, or whatever that is, but we desperately 
want people to get skills to be able to improve their lives in 
the long term.
    I want to thank all of you for being here today. I think we 
have had an excellent hearing. Governor Polis, I appreciate you 
very, very much for coming back. You and I always--I have 
always felt you had great common sense and you proved it again 
today and I appreciate it. I am very pleased that we have had 
this as our first hearing, and we have a lot of work to do for 
the American people. Thank you all for coming and sharing your 
wisdom with us and I thank everybody in the audience. The 
meeting is adjourned.
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    [Whereupon at 1:48 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

                                 [all]