[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                    THE BIDEN BORDER CRISIS: PART I

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 2023
                               __________

                            Serial No. 118-2
                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
         
         
                  [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]         


               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
                              
                               __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                    
50-918                    WASHINGTON : 2023                 
               
               

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                        JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair

DARRELL ISSA, California             JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking 
KEN BUCK, Colorado                       Member
MATT GAETZ, Florida                  ZOE LOFGREN, California
MIKE JOHNSON, Louisiana              SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                  STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
TOM McCLINTOCK, California           HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., 
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin                   Georgia
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              ADAM SCHIFF, California
CHIP ROY, Texas                      DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina           ERIC SWALWELL, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana             TED LIEU, California
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon                  J. LUIS CORREA, California
BEN CLINE, Virginia                  MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey            LUCY McBATH, Georgia
TROY NEHLS, Texas                    MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
KEVIN KILEY, California              DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
HARRIETT HAGEMAN, Wyoming            CORI BUSH, Missouri
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas               GLENN IVEY, Maryland
LAUREL LEE, Florida
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina

               CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
          AMY RUTKIN, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff
                                 ------                                


                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                      Wednesday, February 1, 2023

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary 
  from the State of Ohio.........................................     1
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the Committee on 
  the Judiciary from the State of New York.......................     3

                       INTRODUCTIONS OF WITNESSES

The Honorable Chip Roy, a Member of the Committee on the 
  Judiciary from the State of Texas, introduced Brandon Dunn, Co-
  founder, Forever15Project......................................     4
The Honorable Andy Biggs, a Member of the Committee on the 
  Judiciary from the State of Arizona, introduced Mark Dannnels, 
  Sheriff, Cochise County........................................     5
The Honorable Veronica Escobar, a Member of the Committee on the 
  Judiciary from the State of Texas, introduced Ricardo 
  Samaniego, County Judge, El Paso, Texas........................     5
The Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary 
  from the State of Ohio, introduced Judge Dale Lynn Carruthers, 
  County Judge which was unable to attend........................     6

                               WITNESSES

Brandon Dunn, Co-founder, Forever15Project
  Oral Testimony.................................................     7
  Prepared Testimony.............................................     9
Mark Dannnels, Sheriff, Cochise County
  Oral Testimony.................................................    11
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    13
Hon. Judge Ricardo Samaniego, County Judge, El Paso, Texas
  Oral Testimony.................................................    81
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    83
Hon. Judge Dale Lynn Carruthers, Terrell County Judge and Rancher
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    86

          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

All items submitted for the record by Members of the Committee on 
  the Judiciary are listed below:................................   157
Materials submitted by the Honorable Ken Buck, a Member of the 
  Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Colorado, for the 
  record
    An article entitled, ``Rhode Island high school staff 
        solicits ``donations'' to paycartel ``coyote'' who 
        brought student to U.S.,'' January 28, 2023, Fox News
    An article entitled, ``Over 73,000 `gotaways' at southern 
        borderin November, highest ever recorded,'' December 1, 
        2022, Fox News
Materials submitted by the Honorable Ted Lieu, a Member of the 
  Committee on the Judiciary from the State of California, for 
  the record
    An article entitled, ``Fentanyl is Smuggled for U.S. Citizens 
        by U.S. Citizens Not by Asylum Seekers,'' September 14, 
        2022, Cato Blog
Materials submitted by the Honorable Andy Biggs, a Member of the 
  Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Arizona, for the 
  record
    An article entitled, ``El Paso forced to bus immigrants out 
        of town amid mass migration,'' August 31, 2022, New York 
        Post
    An article entitled, ``El Paso joins Gov. Greg Abbott in 
        busing migrantsto New York City,'' August 26, 2022, The 
        Texas Tribune
    An article entitled, ``El Paso looks like a `third-world 
        country' after Texas border city is overrun by 
        migrants,'' September 13, 2022, New York Post
Materials submitted by the Honorable Pramila Jayapal, a Member of 
  the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Washington, 
  for the record
    Statement from the American Immigration Lawyers Association 
        (AILA)
    Statement from the Church World Service (CWS)
    Statement from the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights 
        (CHIRLA)
    Statement from the First Focus Campaign for Children
    Statement from the Human Rights First
    Statement from the Kids in Need of Defense (KIND)
    Statement from the National Immigration Law Center (NILC)
    Statement from the National Immigration Project (NIPNLG)
    Statement from the Project on Government Oversight (POGO)
    Statement from the Southern Border Communities Coalition 
        (SBCC)
A letter from U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops' (USCCB), on 
  behalf of Rep. Ivey, submitted by the Honorable Veronica 
  Escobar, a Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the 
  State of Texas, for the record

                                APPENDIX

Statement from the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member of the 
  Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Texas, for the 
  record

 
                    THE BIDEN BORDER CRISIS: PART I

                              ----------                              


                      Wednesday, February 1, 2023

                        House of Representatives

                       Committee on the Judiciary

                             Washington, DC

    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:28 a.m., in 
Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Jim Jordan 
[Chair of the Committee] presiding.
    Members present: Representatives Jordan, Issa, Buck, Gaetz, 
Johnson of Louisiana, Biggs, McClintock, Tiffany, Massie, Roy, 
Bishop, Spartz, Fitzgerald, Bentz, Cline, Gooden, Van Drew, 
Nehls, Moore, Kiley, Hageman, Moran, Lee of Florida, Hunt, Fry, 
Nadler, Lofgren, Johnson of Georgia, Schiff, Cicilline, 
Swalwell, Lieu, Jayapal, Correa, Scanlon, Neguse, Dean, 
Escobar, Ross, Bush, and Ivey.
    Chair Jordan. The Committee on Judiciary will come to 
order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess at any time.
    The Chair welcomes our guests, and we will introduce those 
in just a few minutes.
    We will start our proceeding this morning with an opening 
statement.
    Four point five million--
    Mr. Cicilline. Mr. Chair, point of order. We are not going 
to begin the hearing with the Pledge of Allegiance?
    Chair Jordan. We already had it.
    Mr. Cicilline. No, no, that was the organizing meeting. I 
am happy to lead it.
    Chair Jordan. We had today's.
    Mr. Cicilline. It doesn't say that. It says, ``each 
hearing.'' This is our first hearing. I am happy to lead it if 
you will designate me.
    Chair Jordan. The amendment that was adopted said that we 
may start a hearing with the Pledge of Allegiance.
    If the gentleman is insisting on doing that, I would 
welcome Mr. Cicilline to lead the Pledge of Allegiance.
    Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am happy to.
    [Pledge of Allegiance.]
    Chair Jordan. I thank the gentleman for leading us in the 
Pledge.
    I would now start with our opening statements.
    Four point five million, that is the number of illegal 
aliens encountered by CBP officials just in the time since 
President Biden took office; 1.7 million, the number of illegal 
migrants that Joe Biden released into American communities; 
2,378,944, the number of illegal migrants encountered by CBP on 
the Southwest border in 2022--the highest number ever recorded 
in a single year in our Nation's history; 251,487, the number 
of illegal migrants encountered by CBP on the Southwest border 
in the month of December of last year--the highest monthly 
number ever recorded; 8,100, the average number of illegal 
migrants encountered per day on the Southwest border in the 
month of December, 2022; 717,660, the number of illegal migrant 
encounters on the Southwest border in just the first three 
months of this fiscal year; 1.1 million, the number of known 
got-aways who have successfully crossed the Southwest border 
since President Biden took office; 856, the number of migrants 
who died attempting to cross the Southwest border during the 
past fiscal year--again, the highest number on record; 98, the 
number of aliens on the Terrorist Watch List encountered on our 
Southwest border during Fiscal Year 2022--yet another record 
set by the Biden Administration.
    Remember when Mr. Mayorkas testified in front of this 
Committee last Congress, and we asked him about the number on 
that Terrorist Watch List? I remember asking Mr. Mayorkas--at 
the time it was only 40-something--we asked him about that 
number, and we said, ``What's the status of those 
individuals?'' His response was astonishing to every Member of 
the Committee, both Republican and Democrat, when he said he 
didn't know. He didn't know if they were detained. He didn't 
know. This year, 38, the number of aliens on that Terrorist 
Screening Data base already this year.
    A hundred and ninety-three, the number of fentanyl-related 
deaths in the United States every single day. We are going to 
hear from Mr. Dunn on the heartache this causes families and 
communities, this fentanyl problem.
    These numbers make clear that the Biden Administration does 
not have operational control of the border. Month after month 
after month, we have set records for migrants coming into the 
country, and frankly, I think it is intentional. I don't know 
how anyone with common sense or logic can reach any other 
conclusion. It seems deliberate; it seems premeditated; it 
seems intentional.
    As if that is not bad enough, we now learn that the crisis 
is no longer just confined to the Southwest border. Last week, 
the Chief Border Patrol Agent in Vermont tweeted this, quote, 
``In less than four months, Swanton Sector's apprehensions have 
surpassed the COMBINED two prior years.'' Just in the past four 
months, more than the two-years combined beforehand.
    Make no mistake, the Biden Administration is carrying out 
its plan. We all heard Secretary Mayorkas who sat in front of 
this Committee and said, ``We are executing our plan on the 
border.'' We all heard President Biden say, ``We're trying to 
make it easier for people to get here.'' Well, they're 
certainly succeeding in that.
    Imagine the frustration that our border communities feel 
when they hear the damage done to their land and to their 
businesses, the crimes committed by illegal alien trespassers, 
and the overwhelmed local resources are all part of their own 
Federal Government's plan.
    Today, we will hear about some of the effects of Biden's 
open-border policies on everyday Americans and the communities 
in which they live. We will hear about dangerous encounters 
with illegal migrants on private property. We will hear about 
the devastating effects, as I said earlier, of fentanyl on 
American families, and we will hear about Mexican smuggling 
cartels exploiting the open border to terrorize U.S. 
communities.
    The worst part is that none of this had to happen. Under 
President Trump, the border was secure. Under President Biden, 
there is no border. Americans are paying the price.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member, the gentleman from New 
York, Mr. Nadler, once he completes his phone call, for his 
opening statement.
    Mr. Nadler. I thank the Chair for yielding.
    I wish this Committee was starting off on a different note. 
Unfortunately, this hearing is more of the same haphazard, 
chaotic style we have come to expect of this new Republican 
majority.
    We saw them take 15 tries to pick a Speaker. We saw them 
fumble in the opening play by needing to reschedule their first 
meeting, and now this.
    Their first hearing will showcase the racist tendencies of 
the extreme MAGA Republican wing of the Party that seeks to 
close the border to refugees from places like Cuba and 
Venezuela. It almost makes me miss their usual obsession with 
conspiracy theories and the FBI.
    Furthermore, this hearing appears to be the latest spate in 
an ongoing turf war between Chairs Jordan and Comer. As we all 
know, Chair Jordan's plans for his select Subcommittee cut 
deeply into Chair Comer's jurisdiction. Not to be outdone, 
Chair Comer announced that the Oversight Committee will hold 
its first hearing on the subject of immigration, a topic that 
is squarely in this Committee's jurisdiction, during the week 
of February 6th. Turning the tables on Chair Comer once again, 
our majority hastily threw together today's hearing to ensure 
that we beat the Oversight Committee by a few days--without the 
government witnesses that the Oversight Committee had time to 
secure, of course.
    I suspect this hearing is also intended to distract from 
the fact that Republicans have failed to pass any meaningful 
legislation in their first month in the majority. As we all 
know, as part of the rules package for the House, Majority 
Leader Scalise included 11 ``ready-to-go''--in quotes--pieces 
of legislation that were set to completely bypass regular 
order. Many of those fell under the purview of the Judiciary 
Committee. It appears, however, that these bills are anything 
but ready to go. Republicans are unable to pass four of the 
bills that were exclusively or partially under this Committee's 
jurisdiction.
    Most relevant to today's hearing is H.R. 29, the Border 
Safety and Security Act of 2023. This legislation has been 
described as, quote, ``not Christian, anti-American, and trying 
to ban legitimate asylum claims.'' Those are not my words. 
Those are the words of Republican Congressman Tony Gonzalez of 
Texas. He is not the only one. According to The Washington 
Post, dozens of Republican lawmakers have raised concerns about 
the scope of this legislation.
    Now, let's turn to today's hearing. There is no doubt that 
the majority and their witnesses will use the same extreme 
rhetoric we have come to expect from them. They will tell us 
that the southern border is open; that President Biden and 
Secretary Mayorkas opened it deliberately, and that it is 
mostly migrants who are smuggling drugs across our southern 
border. Of course, none of those statements are true.
    Yes, significant numbers of individuals are arriving at our 
southern border, but the Biden Administration actually expelled 
over 1.1 million people last year and recently expanded the use 
of Title 42--much to the concern of many of us here on the 
Committee.
    Additionally, the vast majority of drugs we seize are 
encountered at ports of entry. In Fiscal Year 2022, only 17 
percent of illicit drugs, including 15 percent of all fentanyl, 
were seized between points of entry by the Border Patrol. The 
rest were seized by the Office of Field Operations who are 
stationed at ports of entry. The evidence does not show that 
asylum seekers are bringing drugs to our shores. In fact, 
increasingly, drug cartels are recruiting American citizens to 
bring drugs across the border through ports of entry.
    We all agree that our immigration system is broken, but 
let's fix the problems where they are, not where Fox News 
talking heads imagine them to be.
    Sadly, at every turn, this extreme Republican majority 
fails to offer genuine solutions and resorts to political 
theater. Our colleagues across the aisle cannot even negotiate 
in good faith with each other, let alone with us.
    If that changes, if House Republicans can get their act 
together and work with us on meaningful solutions to serious 
problems, as Senate Republicans appear to be willing to work 
with Senate Democrats, then Judiciary Committee Democrats stand 
ready to help.
    Given their behavior these past few months, I have my 
doubts. Republicans have proposed building a wall, shutting 
down the asylum system, and defunding the Department of 
Homeland Security. Those are not serious proposals. They may 
well play with the extreme's base, but they are a waste of this 
Committee's time, and the American people deserve better.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today, but I 
would also like to take a moment and express my condolences to 
Mr. Dunn and his family. I cannot imagine how difficult the 
loss of your son has been for you and your wife. Thank you for 
being here today.
    I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the gentleman.
    I will now recognize our witnesses for today's hearing. We 
want to thank them for being here.
    First, I want to yield to the gentleman from Texas, Mr. 
Roy, to introduce one of our witnesses today.
    Mr. Roy. I thank the Chair.
    I wish that it were under different circumstances, but I am 
certainly proud to have a fellow Texan here willing to share 
the story that he is going to share with us here today. I have 
visited at length with Brandon Dunn and his lovely wife, Janel 
Rodriguez. They live in Hays County, Texas, where I live. They 
live a few miles down the road.
    They have four children today. Mr. Dunn will recount the 
loss of their son Noah last summer. They are a testament to 
wanting to get positive change out of a loss and working hard 
to do that.
    I am delighted to have them here to express what they are 
going to share about the impact of open borders--hardly a lie, 
hardly a figment of our imagination--a real impact on real 
human beings every single day. They are going to share that 
here today, and I thank them for coming here.
    I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the gentleman.
    We now recognize the gentleman from Arizona to introduce 
the sheriff with us today. Mr. Biggs is recognized.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    I am pleased to introduce to the Committee one of the 
finest lawmen in America, certainly one of the finest lawmen in 
Arizona, Sheriff Mark Dannels from Cochise County, Arizona.
    Cochise County is a large county with a fairly sparse 
population, but sits right on the border. It is in southeast 
Arizona. It borders New Mexico and Mexico.
    Sheriff Dannels encounters the reality of what is happening 
on the border, unlike those who reside in New York who say 
there is no problem on the border and that the border is open 
is untrue. We will hear contrary testimony today. It is open. 
The border is dangerous. Drugs pour across. International 
terrorists, criminal gang members, people from all over the 
world--indeed, over 150 Nations--have come through. We can't 
even vet most of those individuals.
    Sheriff Dannels has served his county for a long time. He 
does a great job. He works well with the Border Patrol Agents 
and has devised a program to protect the communities that he 
serves in that wonderful southeastern Arizona county, which is 
a big county.
    So, we are going to hear more from him, and I am excited to 
have him here. He is not only a great advocate, a great 
sheriff, a great family man, but he is a good friend of mine, 
Sheriff Dannels.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the gentleman.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Texas, Ms. 
Escobar, for an introduction.
    Ms. Escobar. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    It is my privilege to introduce to the Judiciary Committee 
and to the American public a dear friend of mine and a great 
leader with whom I share much in common, County Judge Ricardo 
Samaniego. He is the El Paso County judge.
    We have a couple of things in common. I served as El Paso's 
County Judge for many years in my time preceding my service in 
Congress. For those unfamiliar with Texas elected politics, a 
county judge is, essentially, the Chief elected official, the 
County Administrator, in Texas. They are referred to as judge, 
even though in many ways they act as the mayor of the entire 
county.
    So, Judge Samaniego and I both have been county judge of 
one of the safest communities in the United States of America, 
and it is on the U.S.-Mexico border. It is a long-time 
recipient of migrant populations at our Nation's front door. We 
are incredibly proud of the role that we play in upholding 
American values in a way that provides for dignity.
    Judge Samaniego and I also share another thing in common. 
We were born and raised and are proud residents of the U.S.-
Mexico border in El Paso, Texas.
    Judge Samaniego has done a number of things prior to 
serving in county government. He has been in small business. He 
has been in human resources. He has been, I think, in the 
juvenile justice world as well.
    Judge Samaniego is here to talk to us about how communities 
on the border like El Paso have actually been of tremendous 
service to the Federal Government. When given the resources and 
support, they can be a great ally in ensuring that we preserve 
the humanity in our system that all of us should want.
    One last thing that I will say. Judge Samaniego and I both 
were in public service, I as a Congresswoman and Judge 
Samaniego as the County Judge, on a horrific day, August 3, 
2019, when a domestic terrorist drove over 10 hours to our 
community to slaughter Mexicans and immigrants. He used much of 
the hateful, racist, bigoted, and xenophobic language; this 
domestic terrorist did, as many politicians in Washington, DC, 
use, as many politicians in Texas use, and unfortunately, as 
the President of the United States at the time used. He was 
inspired by that hateful rhetoric, and he used it to fuel his 
hatred and massacre 23 people in a Walmart in our community.
    So, our words have power. I want to remind our Committee of 
that. Our words have consequences.
    Judge, thank you for being here. It is a privilege to have 
you here.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the gentlelady from Texas.
    Our fourth witness could not be with us today because of 
the ice storm in Texas. Judge Dale Lynn Carruthers is a County 
Judge and fourth generation rancher in Terrell County, Texas. 
She was a lifelong Democrat but switched parties because of the 
devastating effects of the Biden border crisis on her land and 
her community.
    Her testimony was circulated to Committee Members, but I 
will briefly summarize her testimony because what she was going 
to say I think is too important for the American people not to 
hear.
    Judge Carruthers would have testified their once safe 
community now lives in fear. Neighbors' homes have been 
burglarized; ranchers have been stalked on their own lands, and 
high-speed car crashes and chases are a daily hazard. One of 
Judge Carruthers' neighbors even had his home set on fire by 
illegal migrants, who did so to get law enforcement to come and 
pick them up.
    Her county's limited resources have been overwhelmed 
because of the flow of illegal aliens across the border. The 
local high school has had to be locked due to the criminal 
activity in their community. Illegal aliens routinely trespass 
through Ms. Carruthers' land, cutting her fences, and causing 
other damage to her property. Groups of illegal migrants 
regularly dress in camouflage to cross the judge's and her 
neighbors' land. These are not asylum seekers--not asylum 
seekers looking to turn themselves in to Border Patrol Agents, 
but foreign nationals trying to evade law enforcement.
    We wish she would have been able to be here today to share 
her story in person.
    We do welcome our witnesses who were able to travel and are 
here, and we thank you for appearing.
    We will begin by swearing you in. Would you please rise and 
raise your right hand?
    Do you swear or affirm, under penalty of perjury, that the 
testimony you're about to give is true and correct to the best 
of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help you God?
    Let the record show that the witnesses answered in the 
affirmative.
    Thank you.
    Please know that your written testimony will be entered 
into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we ask that you 
summarize the testimony in five minutes. I know you were told 
this earlier.
    The microphones in front of you have a clock and a series 
of lights. When the light changes from green to yellow, you 
should begin to conclude your remarks. It is pretty basic. 
Green means go. Yellow means get ready to stop. Red means stop.
    Mr. Dunn, you may begin. We again thank you for being here 
and the work you and your wife are doing in your foundation. 
Like everyone on the Committee, we are sorry for the loss of 
your son.
    Mr. Dunn, you have got your five minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF BRANDON DUNN

    Mr. Dunn. Thank you. Thank you, Committee, for having me 
here today.
    I'm a co-founder of the Forever15Project, a nonprofit that 
my wife Janel and I started after the passing of our son Noah.
    On August 21st, Noah died as a result of fentanyl 
poisoning--more specifically, illicit fentanyl poisoning. He 
was 15 years old. He was a sophomore at Johnson High School in 
Hays County. He was murdered by a drug dealer selling 
counterfeit Percocet pills. The pill he took contained eight 
milligrams of fentanyl, which is four times the lethal dose. 
There was no Percocet in the pill. There were no other drugs in 
the pill besides illicit fentanyl.
    Noah was the third victim in less than two months in Hays 
County from illicit fentanyl. Kevin McConville, another Hays 
student, passed away from a counterfeit Xanax that contained 
illicit fentanyl, and Ryan Garcia, also of Hays CISD, passed 
from a counterfeit Percocet pill.
    Since then, we have attended many seminars and summits, one 
by the DEA in Houston, Texas. So, now, we're very familiar with 
all the information regarding illicit fentanyl.
    Illicit fentanyl is primarily manufactured in Mexico by the 
drug cartels and smuggled through our southern border. It is 
true that most seizures happen at border checkpoints. I believe 
60 percent of all fentanyl seized last year was in San Diego 
and Imperial Valley. However, due to the lethality of this 
drug, any amount smuggled in a backpack or a fanny pack, or 
even in somebody's pocket, can be enough to kill thousands of 
people.
    So, as you can see, it's not just a border checkpoint 
issue. Any amount over, I would--probably under one milligram 
could be lethal in some instances, but two milligrams is the 
most common number put out there. Without immediate medical 
intervention, a person is not likely to survive. That's how 
fast it kills.
    In our activism work, we've come across several families 
that have also lost their children to this illegal drug or this 
illicit drug. It's both sides of the political aisle. For us, 
this isn't a political issue. This is an issue about the safety 
of our children and the citizens of this country.
    We're working with several State legislatures who are 
primarily Democrats in our area on legislation to stop this 
from happening as well.
    So, it's a definite problem that's impacting our 
communities. I don't have time to read the names, but in the 
five-months since Noah's passing, we've met 28 other families 
who've lost primarily teenagers to this drug. The current 
statistic is it's the No. 1 killer from 18-45 years old. 
Honestly, we believe that next year that number will probably 
drop to 15-45 years old, and we've had some children as young 
as 13 years old die from this drug.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Dunn follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chair Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Dunn. We appreciate you and 
your wife being here today.
    Sheriff, you are recognized for five minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF MARK DANNELS

    Mr. Dannels. Good morning, Hon. Chair Jordan, Ranking 
Member Nadler, and distinguished Members of this Committee.
    I appreciate the opportunity to address this Committee 
regarding the status of our southern border from the optics of 
a community and local law enforcement perspective.
    I have served our border communities for 38-plus years, and 
prior to that, as a member of the United States Army. I 
currently serve on national, western, and southwest border 
sheriff associations, and we have three objectives: Public 
safety, national security, and humanitarian.
    In my submitted brief, I have shared with you all the 
overview of Cochise County and the history of our border. I 
have personally experienced the good, the bad, and the ugly of 
being a border county. Currently, this is the ugliest I've 
experienced. I am proud of our relationships with our local law 
enforcement partners--local, State, and Federal--that serve our 
communities.
    To best understand my presentation is to understand where 
we were over two years ago. My county was one of the safest 
border counties, based on our collective government efforts, 
messaging, and, yes, enforcement operations supported by the 
rule of law.
    What's the direct impact to my county? My citizens and law 
enforcement address mostly got-aways, the fight-and-flight 
syndrome, in my county versus those giving up--100 percent 
camouflaged migrants being illegally smuggled by the cartels 
with a price tag of, per undocumented alien, begins at $7,000 
and up. These smugglers include juveniles being recruited via 
social media by the cartels. Border-related bookings, retention 
costs within my jail in calendar year 2022 was $4.3 million, 
absorbed by my local and State taxpayers.
    Border-related crimes are at an all-time high--death, 
murder investigations, aggravated acts against my citizens, 
failure to yield, search and rescue, plus recoveries, and, yes, 
assaults against law enforcement officials. My deputies have 
been placed in life-threatening scenarios, as the cartels show 
no regard for my citizens and those that wear a badge.
    Agents, troopers, deputies, and officers are addressing 
dangerous scenarios and criminals as a direct result of an open 
border being exploited by the criminal cartels for violence, 
fear, and greed. In calendar year 2022, 1,578 suspects were 
booked in my jail for border-related crimes. Only 78 were 
foreign-born.
    In 2021, over five million dosages of fentanyl were seized 
on the Arizona border. In 2022, over 20 million dosages were 
seized. In 2022, over 12,000 pounds of fentanyl were seized on 
the Southwest border.
    I want to share a personal tragedy with you of a good 
citizen named Wanda in my county. She was heading to her 65th 
birthday party to meet her family and her son, when a 16-year-
old USC who fled from law enforcement, the deputies, was 
carrying three undocumented aliens; ran his vehicle through a 
red light at deadly speeds, cutting her vehicle in half and 
killing her.
    In closing, my fellow sheriffs and I have tried to partner 
with this administration, to include the President of the 
United States--with high hopes to share a collective message, a 
collective action plan, support the rule of law, prioritize our 
southern border, and provide updates, reference community 
impacts and concerns--with little to no success.
    By allowing our border security mission and immigration 
laws to be discretionary, these criminal cartels continue to be 
the true winners. Their exploitation of mankind is simply 
modern-day slavery, allowing thousands of pounds of illicit 
drugs into our country that continue to erode core values of 
families, schools, and subsequently, killing an average of 300 
Americans every day. It's unacceptable at any level.
    Experiencing migrant deaths without a reasonable process, 
while Members of the U.S. Congress and this administration 
intentional avoid reality, is gross negligence. Our voice of 
reason has been buried during what I call intellectual 
avoidance by this administration, and, yes, Members of the U.S. 
Congress.
    Communities have been neglected and abandoned, to rely on 
our local and State resources to address a border that is in a 
crisis mode. Our southern border, against all public comfort 
statements out of Washington, DC, is the worst shape I've ever 
seen it. When I look at public safety, national security, and 
humanitarian on our southern border, this is the largest crime 
scene in this country.
    The morale of agents is extremely low, and the collective 
frustration is very high among law enforcement at all levels, 
and most important, the citizens of my county. With the 
efforts, recent efforts to cancel Title 42, this only serves to 
complex a border that needs immediate immigration reform by the 
U.S. Congress, but, most important, needs to be secured.
    I'm a true believer that Customs and Border Patrol are the 
experts on border security, while sheriffs and police chiefs 
are the experts of community. Together, this is a recipe of 
success for all communities.
    I will leave you with this final statement: We all serve 
the priorities of Americans based on our shared oath of office 
to keep them safe, enhance their quality of life, and support 
the rule of law, absent political affiliation or the concern of 
reelection. I ask each one of you to reflect on this statement 
as you make your next decision to vote.
    Once again, I thank this Committee for the invitation and 
opportunity, and now stand ready to answer any questions here 
in a few minutes. Thank you, everybody.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Dannels follows:]

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    Chair Jordan. Thank you, Sheriff.
    I now recognize Judge Samaniego. I think I got that right.
    Judge, thank you for being here.
    You have got five minutes. Just hit your microphone.

         STATEMENT OF THE HON. JUDGE RICARDO SAMANIEGO

    Judge Samaniego. Members of the Judiciary Committee, thank 
you for inviting me to testify.
    My name is Ricardo Samaniego. I'm an elected County Judge 
of El Paso, Texas.
    Chair Jordan. Judge, can you pull that a little closer?
    Judge Samaniego. Pardon me?
    Chair Jordan. Pull that a little closer. There you go. 
Thank you.
    Judge Samaniego. El Paso, Texas, one of the safest, largest 
communities in America and the veterans' capital of the USA, 
where I serve a population of almost 900,000 residents in a 
metroplex consisting of El Paso, Texas to Ciudad Juarez, Mexico 
and Las Cruces, New Mexico. These three cities form a combined 
International Metropolitan Area of 2.7 million individuals and 
constitutes the largest bilingual and binational workforce in 
the Western Hemisphere.
    I would like to start by emphasizing that over four years 
ago Customs and Border Patrol requested the assistance of 
myself and other local officials. I believe we truly stepped up 
to the request and facilitated their internal processes.
    El Paso, Texas has been the epicenter of the migrant surge, 
both recently and nearly four years ago, when border 
communities such as mine were faced with unprecedented numbers 
of migrants who were seeking to enter our country through El 
Paso. We have learned how to safely, humanely, and 
expeditiously treat asylum seekers who pass through our 
community on their way to unite with sponsors. I'm here today 
to share the El Paso story, a success story which strikes a 
delicate balance between security and compassion.
    However, before I tell you the story, I must disabuse you 
of information which I personally know to be false. There is no 
open border in El Paso. Immigrants seeking asylum largely 
present themselves to Border Patrol for processing. El Paso is 
required to abide by the same immigration laws that other 
border communities must follow. There's no invasion of migrants 
in our community, nor are there hordes of undocumented 
immigrants committing crimes against citizens or causing havoc 
in our community.
    Claiming this continues a false racist narrative against 
these individuals who perpetuate violence that the El Paso 
community is all too familiar with. When our citizens were the 
target of a racially motivated mass shooting August 3, 2019, 
they killed 23 El Pasoans and Mexican citizens and wounded 26 
other innocent bystanders. Our community was deeply devastated 
by this tragedy.
    Third, humanitarianism and security are not a binary 
choice. It is the Federal Government's responsibility to do 
both. Provided with the sufficient financial support, we can 
assist the Federal Government in fulfilling its mandate. Our 
initiatives, efforts, and processes are directed to avoid any 
type of chaos.
    When El Paso County was faced with the increasing number of 
asylum seekers, we established a Migrant Support Service Center 
to assist migrants to connect with their relatives and sponsors 
and guide them with a same-day, self-paid travel arrangement 
process. Approximately 35-45 percent of these migrants fall in 
this category. The benefit of this process is that migrants are 
moved quickly and safely out of our community at their own 
expense.
    The center opened on October 10, 2022, and has the capacity 
to assist up to 1,000 per day. To date, the center has assisted 
26,829 asylum seekers. No immigrant is placed on a bus and 
shipped to another city without coordination and a sponsor 
waiting at the receiving city.
    El Paso's partnership with Catholic Charities of Houston is 
a great example of interjurisdictional cooperation. With 
Federal funds, Catholic Charities has chartered a bus daily 
traveling from El Paso to Houston with 52 passengers manifested 
with confirmed self-paid travel for flights out of Houston the 
following day. This model initiated discussions with 
collaboration with other interstate and intrastate partners 
such as Dallas, Austin, and Denver.
    When the city of El Paso declared a disaster, we did not 
get the resources we needed, but, instead, saw the State of 
Texas National Guard, the placement of barbed wire lined 
haphazardly in certain areas, and pseudo-barriers of tanks and 
cargo containers were put up. Right to the city's declaration, 
I had sent correspondence and communicated with various State 
officials that what my community needed was assistance with 
transportation, staffing, food, and sheltering. The State never 
addressed these that we requested.
    To be sure, we cannot locally resolve the immigration 
issues facing our country. So, finally, I want to take the 
opportunity to thank our Congresswoman, Veronica Escobar, for 
her leadership and for consistently ensuring that the Federal 
Government is aware of the realities on the ground.
    So, I thank you for being here. I welcome you to our 
beautiful community. I would love to host and I'll be happy to 
answer any questions at this time.
    [The prepared statement of the Hon. Judge Samaniego 
follows:]

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    Chair Jordan. Thank you.
    We are now proceeding under the five-minute rule with 
questions.
    The Chair recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr. 
Issa.
    Mr. Issa. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Dunn, yes, I know the list of names of people who in 
many cases thought they were taking one drug and died of 
fentanyl is long. One of the names that you probably have on 
your list is Matt Capelouto in Riverside County and his 
daughter, who thought she was taking a Xanax and died. She 
actually only took half of it as part of her study routine and 
died of fentanyl overdose. That has led to a murder charge in 
Riverside County, and our District Attorney is prosecuting 
that. How it will end, we'll see, but it certainly is an 
example of the kind of response that I hope both the Federal 
Government and the State and local will start looking, that 
these people who traffic in that leading to these tragic deaths 
are more than just drug dealers; they're murderers.
    I want to thank you for being here today.
    Sheriff, I am going to primarily talk to you because the 
judge, I think rightfully so, gave us a good example of 
facilitating undocumented workers who have been released into 
this country getting around the country, and all the 
humanitarians work they do.
    First, are those the people you run into?
    Mr. Dannels. Congressman, it's not. We don't get the give-
ups--I can't remember speaking with our Border Patrol, CBP 
Agents--we don't get give-ups in Cochise County. What we get is 
the got-aways, the ones that are camouflaged 100 percent from 
bootie to headgear, that fight and flight, do whatever it takes 
to get away from us.
    Mr. Issa. So, out of five million people that have come 
here, we could be talking, the judge could be talking about a 
million who just want opportunity, maybe jobs, but that is not 
who you are dealing with? You are dealing with the other at 
least a million who are often repeat criminals and are evading 
to perpetrate crimes?
    Mr. Dannels. That is correct.
    Mr. Issa. I want to go through a couple of quick quotes 
because you're at the border. I, too, am at the border. I have 
a little over 50 miles of the Mexican border in California. So, 
these quotes are particularly important to me.
    The Secretary of Homeland Security said, ``The border is 
closed. The border is secure,'' in March 2021. Was that true 
then?
    Mr. Dannels. No.
    Mr. Issa. Is it true now?
    Mr. Dannels. No.
    Mr. Issa. He, additionally, said, ``We are working day-in 
and day-out to enhance its security.'' He said that November 
16, 2022. Had you seen that kind of improvement?
    Mr. Dannels. No, I have not.
    Mr. Issa. You haven't, as of today?
    Just a few days ago, he said, ``The border is not open.'' 
Would you agree with that?
    Mr. Dannels. No. If I could support that statement, also, 
the majority of people--just to give an example, we have an 
interdiction team that goes out almost daily. Yesterday, they 
were out for their shift; had 15 smuggling events. We had a 
media crew riding with them yesterday. The majority of people 
we talk to, the migrants that have been smuggled, which I call 
modern-day slavery, what they're doing to these people, they 
tell us the reason they're here is because of President Biden 
and the welcoming sign.
    Mr. Issa. Now, the Vice President said, just a few months 
ago, ``The border is secure. We have secured the border.'' 
Would that also be inaccurate?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes, it would.
    Mr. Issa. Now, a lot of people talk about the Trump era 
versus now. Is it fair to say that it got better, but it was 
still a difficult time for you, even then, with some of what 
you were dealing with at the border?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes. After 38, almost 48, years of working 
this border, I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. It was 
better under President Trump. This is, like I said, this is the 
worst I've seen, mainly because of the aggression by the 
cartels and the aggravated acts toward law enforcement and the 
community.
    Mr. Issa. want you to take the remaining time and just tell 
us, that difference between the Trump era and now with the 
border wide open, what does it do for your ability to provide 
law enforcement for other purposes to your county?
    Mr. Dannels. Well, with the amount of arrests we had in 
2022, our border population, or it's been border crimes that's 
been arrested and booked in my jail equates to about 40-44 
percent of all the population in my jail. If you equate that 
back into the patrol side of it for the troopers, the local law 
enforcement, and sheriff's office, we're spending a lot of time 
keeping our community safe, diverted from the normal stuff that 
we do, the proactive stuff, into addressing border crimes.
    Mr. Issa. Thank you.
    Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from New York, the Ranking Member, Mr. 
Nadler, is recognized.
    Mr. Nadler. I thank the Chair for yielding.
    Mr. Dunn, again, I want to express my sincerest condolences 
to you and your family, and I want to thank you for being here 
today.
    Judge Samaniego, I want to turn to you. Thank you so much 
for coming today. Having a witness who has grown up and lived 
on the border is so imperative. Your knowledge and lived 
experience are invaluable for policymakers here in Washington.
    Unfortunately, the Republican majority seems interested 
only in showboating. They continuously talk about a so-called 
Biden border crisis, even though this administration has kept 
in place numerous policies from the Trump Administration that 
many of my colleagues and I have expressed concerns about.
    Judge Samaniego, in your testimony you note safety and 
compassion are not mutually exclusive. I think this is a very 
important point. As Republican Representative Tony Gonzalez 
stated over the weekend,

        Border security and immigration are two separate topics. One 
        can be for a strong border security presence that prevents 
        terrorists, fentanyl, and bad actors from entering our country, 
        and one can be for welcoming future Americans in through the 
        front door.

Judge Samaniego, can you discuss how El Paso has balanced these 
two competing dynamics, ensuring the safety of its citizens 
while also being compassionate toward migrants?
    Judge Samaniego. Thank you.
    One of the things that we've recognized is our 
collaboration. We're not reacting at this point. We've been 
working four years. Almost every Friday we meet with law 
enforcement; we meet with Border Patrol, the diocese, the 
NGO's. We know that, by doing what we do right, the whole 
Nation benefits from that. If we do not process the migrants 
properly, then it falls on other cities.
    I think El Paso is extremely, focused on the fact that 
we're not a community, but a part of a Nation. If we do not do 
the right things, then New York gets hit, and other communities 
get hit, simply by the fact that there's an unorganized 
process.
    Our strategy is really very organized, very compassionate, 
and making sure that we get individuals in the right place at 
the right time. So, when we have someone like from New York 
that comes to El Paso, the mayor, to tell us to help them 
through this process, obviously, that's why we're there. Our 
impact is not just on our community. Our impact, I believe it's 
on the values of our Constitution, of the values, in my case, 
as a Democrat. We make sure that we're helping the rest of the 
country. If we don't do things right, then I can guarantee you 
that the impact is going to fall on the other cities around the 
country.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    We keep hearing from our Republican colleagues that the 
border is open, and that Biden caused this crisis. Could you 
comment on this?
    Judge Samaniego. Well, we don't see that. We process every 
individual that comes through. We make sure we coordinate. We 
get a lot of information.
    I must emphasize, it was the Border Patrol and the Federal 
Government that asked us to step up as a community. When we 
don't do the right things, it backs up their system. They start 
getting more and more people. The detention centers are 
extremely limited compared to what a community can do. So, 
either you put the pressure on the Federal Government or you 
put the pressure on a community that has almost 14 sites where 
we get, we could get people sheltered. We can process people. 
Like I said, 35-40 percent are individuals that already have a 
sponsor; they have money, and they can move into, to the 
communities, into other communities.
    We get a lot of calls of a lot of States and cities 
throughout the country that want migrants. If we do the right 
thing and we process them, then we can get the migrants to 
them, as well as to help our community.
    We talk about three things. It's safety, which is extremely 
important for our community, humanitarianism, and the economy. 
If we do not do things right, then I can guarantee it impacts 
the entire economy.
    We've seen it when things be getting strained, and the 
movement of product doesn't come into the country. We get hit 
extremely hard. We get a lot of calls about moving, not moving 
the traffic properly. We're one of the largest movers of 
products in the whole country. So, we do things right, and I 
feel that everybody gainsfrom our efforts.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    One of the topics you touched on in your testimony is the 
need for all levels of government and nonprofits to work 
together to effectively process the migrants who are crossing 
the border. Do you have a good relationship with Immigration 
and Customs Enforcement and Customs and Border Protection? Can 
you discuss how often you coordinate with them?
    Judge Samaniego. Every--once a month, we have--one of the 
missing elements is that we don't get support from the State. 
If we had the three--you need the local government. You need 
the Federal Government. The missing component, and because of 
political reasons, we don't get that third part of the stool.
    That is extremely, extremely important to us. We need their 
support. We don't need militia. We don't need policing. Our 
strategy has been extremely effective without using law 
enforcement. We suffer tremendously by not having the proper 
support from the State government.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you. My time has expired. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from Colorado is recognized.
    Mr. Buck. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Since President Biden took office, we have seen a 
tremendous surge in the Terrorist Watch List arrests at the 
southern border. There were two Terrorist Watch List arrests in 
Fiscal Year 2017, six in 2018, zero in 2019, three in 2020. In 
2021, President Biden's first year in office, Terrorist Watch 
List arrests surged to 15. In 2022, there were 98 terrorists 
arrested at the southern border. In this Fiscal Year so far, 
there have been 38 arrests.
    According to Border Patrol, there have been approximately 
1.2 million known got-aways since President Biden took office. 
In November alone, 73,000 border crossers evaded/overwhelmed 
Border Patrol Agents, but were detected by other forms of 
surveillance. These crossers are known as got-aways. Often, 
these border crossers are evading being caught by Border Patrol 
because they have a criminal record or contraband to hide, 
unlike most migrants who cross with the explicit intention to 
meet Border Patrol.
    Today, I want to ask about other sinister news in the 
immigration space. I have a copy here of an email circulated 
last Thursday, January 26th, at Mount Pleasant High School in 
Rhode Island. Its Assistant Principal Stefani Harvey, someone 
with a doctorate in education, is fundraising among its faculty 
and staff to pay a debt to a cartel that trafficked a student.
    The email, calling it an urgent matter, reads,

        We have a student who came to America with ``Coyote,'' which is 
        a group that helps people. This group gives you a timeframe to 
        make a payment of $5,000 to those who bring them into the 
        States. Our student needs our urgent support to raise another 
        $2,000 to meet his goal of $5,000 by February 1st, 2023.

Sheriff, is this helpful?
    Mr. Dannels. Is it--I'm sorry, sir?
    Mr. Buck. Is this helpful to have a faculty raising money 
to pay a Mexican cartel to bring someone into the country?
    Mr. Dannels. Congressman, no.
    Mr. Buck. OK. The Ranking Member said that many of 
President Trump's policies have been continued. Is the fence 
continuing to be built on the southern border?
    Mr. Dannels. No.
    Mr. Buck. Is the remain in Mexico policy being continued?
    Mr. Dannels. No.
    Mr. Buck. Is the agreement with the Northern Triangle 
countries to immediately deport illegal immigrants who come 
into this country, has that policy been continued?
    Mr. Dannels. No.
    Mr. Buck. Sheriff, let me ask you something. We now have in 
this country two million individuals who have gone through the 
entire process and have been adjudicated for removal. In other 
words, they came to this country. They applied for asylum. They 
weren't entitled to asylum. They came here for economic 
reasons. So, they went through. They had due process. They have 
been adjudicated. They have been ordered removed, and the 
President of the United States has instructed ICE not to seek 
those individuals and remove them from the country--two 
million. What is the impact of an order like that in terms of 
welcoming people who are coming to this country for all the 
wrong reasons?
    Mr. Dannels. Well, Congressman, that's one of the things 
that has changed with the two administrations that I've seen, 
is the former President had a very strong message that--
    Mr. Buck. When you say, ``former President,'' President 
Trump?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes, sir. That if you come to the country, you 
break our laws, there's consequences. Under the current one, 
that's not being--the rule of law is not being fulfilled.
    Mr. Buck. OK. I guess just to further that a little bit, 
the impact on individuals that are considering coming to this 
country, when they know, if they come to this country there is 
going to be a consequence, a negative consequence for them, 
or--and I am not even talking about a welcome mat. We welcome 
immigrants to this country. We welcome people who want to go 
through the process the right way, who want legal immigration. 
When they know that they are coming to this country and there 
is no consequence to come to this country illegally, and even 
when they lose in court and they are ordered removed, the 
United States won't remove them under this administration, and 
there is this hope for an amnesty program to go through 
Congress or, informally, as President Obama did--and this 
President will probably do the same thing--issue an Executive 
Order with the stroke of a pen to give people amnesty, what is 
the impact on people being attracted to this country for all 
the wrong reasons?
    Mr. Dannels. Well, Congressman, there's a couple.

    (1)  Is they keep coming, and we're seeing that on the 
border.

    (2)  It's a fracture of our rule of law--the oath that I 
take, you all take, and share it.

    (3)  Last, but not least, is it's an insult to all law 
enforcement--State, local, and Federal--trying to do our best 
to secure this border.

    Mr. Buck. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the gentleman for yielding.
    Mr. Buck. Mr. Chair, I have two articles that I would like 
to offer for the record. One from Fox News, published January 
28th, and another one published December 1st.
    Chair Jordan. Without objection, they will be entered into 
the record.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from California.
    Ms. Lofgren. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    First, let me just thank you, Mr. Dunn, for your compelling 
testimony and offer my deepest sympathy and prayers for your 
family and your lost son. All of us feel that way on this dais.
    It is important to note that I think every Member of this 
Committee wants to have order at the border. We want laws that 
can be enforced. We also need to take a good look at really 
what is happening. If you take a look at who is coming into the 
United States without benefit of a visa, it is a mix.
    Some individuals are coming from communist countries, like 
Venezuela, Nicaragua, or Cuba, and they are coming to seek 
asylum because they have been persecuted. That is permitted 
under immigration law, and yet, the numbers have made it 
difficult to process that in an orderly way.
    Some are coming, just like my grandparents, for economic 
reasons. They want to have a better life for them and their 
family. There is really in most cases no way for that to happen 
in a lawful manner.
    Some are bad guys, and especially they are coming through 
more rural areas. I think that is why the sheriff is seeing 
what he is seeing.
    I think it is important, as we think about what to do, and 
what strategies will be effective, we need to think about those 
different categories of individuals.
    We spend more money today on the Border Patrol than ever 
before in the history of the country. We spend more money on 
immigration enforcement than all other Federal law enforcement 
combined. So, it is not as if we are unwilling to pay for 
enforcement.
    I note that the wall that some feel will be the answer, on 
average, was breached last year once every 11 minutes. It was 
breached over 4,000 times. So, I don't know that this is really 
the answer that people think it is.
    Now, just taking a look at the Cubans, and the Nicaraguans, 
and the Venezuelans, for example, the administration created a 
parole program just recently for a safe and organized process 
for migrants seeking protection as asylum seekers. When they 
did, the number of people coming irregularly dropped. My 
understanding is that, between the ports of entry, individuals 
seeking asylum from those countries dropped 97 percent.
    If you put yourself in the place of that individual, if 
there is a way to get safe haven, you are going to take that 
rather than risk your life walking through the jungle. What we 
don't have is reform of the immigration laws that would give 
some opportunity for people seeking economic advancement to 
have a hope that this could happen.
    I think that is really on us, on the Congress. In this last 
Congress and the Congress before that, we had a Farm Workforce 
Modernization Act. It got broad support, a big, bipartisan vote 
in the Congress. It died in the Senate. We know that more than 
half the farm workers in the United States are undocumented. 
Yet, we need farm workers in the country.
    If there is a way to have an orderly system, I think that 
would help us a lot as a country. So, we all want order at the 
border. A humanitarian crisis is not best solved at the border. 
We need to take a look, and I have urged that, not just the 
United States, but other Western Hemisphere countries work 
together to try and bring stability to the three countries in 
Central America that are really the origin of many of those 
fleeing. We have not succeeded at that.
    So, let me just close with this, Judge. You have seen the 
people coming into your city. Why are they coming to the United 
States, the people that you have met in your city?
    Judge Samaniego. Well, they're extremely passionate. I wish 
most of our citizens had the passion and the desire to be in 
our country like they do. I have heard a lot of different 
stories. One of them is the fact that they stand up for their 
rights in their country, and then, they're persecuted because 
of that. They're asked not to do those kinds of things.
    Ms. Lofgren. Right.
    Judge Samaniego. Like, you know, they get targeted. I get a 
lot of them telling me that they're still--their parents will 
call and say, you know, ``They go to my house every single day 
and find out where I'm at.'' So, they're very passionate about 
coming here, extremely passionate about working. They all say 
the same thing, that they're very willing and able to work here 
in the United States.
    Ms. Lofgren. Thank you.
    Mr. Chair, I see my time has expired.
    Chair Jordan. The gentlelady yields back.
    The gentleman from Louisiana is recognized, Mr. 
Johnson.I21Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Dunn, we mourn the loss of your son Noah and the 
hundreds of thousands of other victims and families who have 
been irreparably damaged by this catastrophe.
    I would note that, of course, China and the Mexican drug 
cartels are taking full advance of this wide-open Southwest 
border. We all know that. That is what the testimony reflects.
    We have recorded amounts, record amounts, of deadly 
fentanyl that are coming into American neighborhoods all over 
the country. Last year alone, over 100,000 Americans died of a 
drug overdose. The fentanyl poisoning is a key component of 
that, and we know it.
    My questions are going to be for the sheriff, but I just 
want to recount a couple of facts here, so that everybody back 
home can take account.
    Since President Biden took office, U.S. Customs and Border 
Protection officials have encountered over 4.5 million illegal 
aliens across the Southwest border. It has been said a few 
times; we are going to say it repeatedly today: The number is 
disastrous. If we do not have a border, we do not have a 
Nation. We cannot maintain our sovereignty and security if we 
don't have a border.
    Nearly 1.7 million of those illegal aliens encountered 
across the Southwest border have been released into America's 
communities. They are coming into my community, my State, and 
all of ours. It is all over the country now.
    During Fiscal Year 2022, CBP encountered 2,378,000-plus 
illegal aliens--the most in any single year. That broke the 
record from 2021, which is the second-largest number. Just 
during December 2022, CBP encountered 251,487 illegal aliens 
crossing the border. It is the highest number ever encountered 
in a single month.
    The point is: This gets worse and worse and worse. Why is 
that? Well, because the Biden Administration has been reversing 
the vast majority of the Trump Administration's successful 
border enforcement policies. They are systematically, they are 
intentionally, Secretary Mayorkas and his administration, they 
are dismantling immigration enforcement. They are encouraging 
illegal immigration--encouraging it, inviting people to come 
here. That has been happening for the last two years. That is 
beyond refute. That is what the evidence shows. That is what 
everybody can see who cares to pay attention to this.
    They have terminated the construction of the border wall. 
The Biden Administration issued orders restricting the 
immigration officers' ability to arrest, detain, and remove 
aliens who violate U.S. law. I can go on and on and on.
    Sheriff Dannels, you have been in law enforcement for 
nearly four decades. You testified; you gave some very 
compelling testimony this morning about all the problems that 
you have encountered.
    The question is, have you tried to share those concerns 
with the Biden Administration? If so, how did the 
administration respond?
    Mr. Dannels. That's--yes. Thank you, Congressman.
    We actually have, on behalf of the National Sheriffs' 
Association. I chair border security for National Sheriffs. Our 
National Sheriffs, senior leadership has attempted through 
letters to reach out to President Biden. He has been invited to 
our events with Major County Sheriffs, Western Sheriffs, 
Southwest Border, and National. We have never got a response 
back from this President. In fact, I was told just a couple of 
months ago he's the first President not to meet with sheriffs 
in this country. He still has not to date that I--to my 
knowledge.
    Second to that is we did meet with Secretary Mayorkas. We 
reached out. I assembled about a dozen sheriffs. We met in El 
Paso. We sat down with the Secretary. We gave him a 16-point 
action plan to share, to look at, with our common-sense 
humanitarian and public safety, national security objectives 
built within that. Never heard back.
    I asked the Secretary where that plan was, what they were 
going to do with it. He asked me, ``What plan?'' So, long story 
short is we've never got a response back from the Secretary.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. It is an absolute dereliction of 
duty. It is inexcusable. Because of Secretary Mayorkas and the 
Biden Administration's abandonment of any semblance of security 
on the border, what policies or procedures have you had to 
implement to cover for that?
    Mr. Dannels. Well, again, it goes back to where the 
honorable judge is talking about the absence of the State, we 
have the absence of the Federal Government.
    One thing I'll say I think is important to your question 
is, I work with many Border Patrol Agents, Federal agents. To 
date, I have not heard one say that it's working. The morale, 
the frustration they feel, the frustration we feel, and let's 
not forget we all serve communities in this country. We have 
had to step up our game.
    Again, when you look at 40-45 percent of all your crime is 
coming through the border, in my rural county I don't have the 
pleasure of the resources like El Paso, which is urban in 
nature; that we've had to step up, and thanks to Governor Ducey 
and our State, and our State legislative folks, the $4.3 
million, they're helping me pay those bills. In a rural county, 
that's a huge impact. When it comes to our interdiction teams, 
our camera system, you name it, the State is helping us.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. I am out of time. I yield back.
    I thank you for your service and all those brave men and 
women who are serving in that impossible situation.
    Mr. Dannels. Thank you, Congressman.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. [Presiding.] The gentleman yields back. The 
gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Johnson.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Dunn, my 
condolences to you on the loss of your dear son. Sheriff 
Dannels, thank you for your service, sir.
    Mr. Dannels. Thank you.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. For years we have listened to MAGA 
Republicans decry a so-called invasion at our southern border. 
Now that they have a House majority, MAGA Republicans are in 
charge. MAGA Republicans are responsible for coming up with 
solutions. Unfortunately, this hearing is nothing more than a 
distraction from the fact that my MAGA friends cannot agree on 
the problem or the solution.
    The House Republican border security plan is so extreme 
that it is opposed by dozens of their own Members. Their plan 
has been called extreme, anti-American, and not Christian. That 
is how Republicans describe it.
    What we do know is that the MAGA Republican plan will shut 
down asylum to everyone, including those fleeing Communist 
totalitarian regimes and young children who are crossing the 
border alone to flee gang violence. This draconian and cruel 
policy will only diminish America's standing in the world.
    Meanwhile, President Biden has shown that we can lower the 
number of unauthorized border crossings while still treating 
migrants with dignity and humanity. Immigration is much more 
than a scary B-roll on Fox News or inflammatory Twitter posts. 
It is about our fellow human beings.
    Migrants who arrive with nothing but the clothes on their 
backs work hard to build new lives here. Indeed, immigrants are 
important for our communities and our economy because of the 
skills they bring to the contributions that they make to our 
society.
    New Americans in my district are small business owners who 
pay their taxes, enrich our neighborhoods, and help newer 
members of the community. For example, they have set up 
numerous businesses and vibrant and economically successful 
locations where they can even employ other immigrants and 
Americans. At Refugee Coffee in Clarkston, Georgia, they even 
have a food pantry where they leave groceries for anyone that 
might be in need. Immigrants are vital to my district. We 
appreciate them.
    Now, while Republicans resort to political stunts at the 
border and theatrical hearings like this one, Democrats stand 
ready to fix a broken immigration system. We have a 
responsibility to act. We stand ready to work with serious 
Republicans to pass meaningful solutions.
    Judge Samaniego, thank you for being here. I am fortunate 
to be traveling with my colleague, Veronica Escobar, to El Paso 
tomorrow. What can you tell me that we should be looking for on 
our visit tomorrow?
    Mr. Samaniego. I believe the unity of what happens when a 
community decides to work together. We are called the Pass of 
the North. That was our first name. So, we have been doing this 
for centuries. People pass through our community. We know how 
to do this in a humanitarian way. We are very, very organized. 
We have a strategy that I think that people should look at that 
especially this idea of getting communities to send buses to us 
so that we can have sponsors and migrants that go to their 
community. So, our strategy works.
    It only doesn't work when we are not funded properly. At 
any point, we are able to handle large numbers, but then we 
don't get the proper funding. When we talk about, like 
Secretary Mayorkas, so when he came down, he immediately was 
able to help us with FEMA funding, allowed us to move the 
processes.
    When you push them back into what is, all you are doing is 
creating more anxiety. You are creating more desperation. You 
are creating more issues, not only for us but for a community 
that works. On an economic level, there is no border that works 
in such an economic level. To push them back I think is 
extremely reckless of our neighbors.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Well, let me stop you there and ask 
you this last question.
    Mr. Samaniego. Yes.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. According to CBP, from January 
2021-January 2023, only eight undocumented immigrants were 
arrested for fentanyl smuggling at the southern border--
    Mr. Samaniego. That is correct.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. --compared to 119 U.S. citizens. Is 
it your experience that an increase in migrants is tied to an 
increase in fentanyl?
    Mr. Samaniego. We haven't seen that, because first, they 
come with very little things. I mean, they get a backpack. They 
get things. They are carrying things that are very easy. They 
are vetted very properly. Not only are they vetted with Border 
Patrol, but we also vet them as well. We vet them at the 
shelters. So, we are constantly looking for that. We are taking 
care of the Nation. We are not going to allow someone to bring 
drugs in unwittingly. We are going to do everything possible to 
be part of that process.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentleman's time has expired. The 
gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Biggs.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Dunn, you and your wife, thank you for being here 
today. We appreciate your testimony and your willingness to 
share your experience. I express my sympathy and condolences to 
you and appreciate the work that you are doing now.
    I want to just clear two things up briefly, though. The 
figures just cited by my colleague from Georgia are ports of 
entry only and do not reflect between ports of entry arrests 
for fentanyl transportation. So, please, don't ever let the 
facts get in the way of a good narrative from the other side.
    Not only that, when the gentlelady from California said she 
supports an orderly system for legal migration, we have an 
orderly system for legal migration. That is why a million 
people are brought in legally every year. The numbers that you 
hear are between the ports of entry, because that is where CBP 
operates. So, when CBP talks about the number of encounters 
being 4.5 million, that is between the ports of entry.
    Sheriff Dannels, how big is your county?
    Mr. Dannels. It is just under 6,300 square miles, with 83 
miles of international border.
    Mr. Biggs. What is the population?
    Mr. Dannels. About 125,000.
    Mr. Biggs. How many NGO's do you have that deal with the 
flow of international or illegal migrants coming across?
    Mr. Dannels. Maybe one or two, three. Most of them come 
from outside and not within the county.
    Mr. Biggs. I know Yuma County has one.
    Mr. Dannels. Yes.
    Mr. Biggs. So that is interesting. So, when we look at 
this, are your deputies ever dispatched to deal with 
criminality or situations involving illegal aliens?
    Mr. Dannels. On a daily basis, yes.
    Mr. Biggs. How often? How many times per day?
    Mr. Dannels. Throughout the day. Usually when I check on 
them, they are in some kind of issue with border security or 
immigration. When I go home, I hear it also. It is throughout 
the whole day.
    Mr. Biggs. What sorts of dangers does your department and 
your deputies specifically encounter because of these 
interactions?
    Mr. Dannels. Well, the biggest thing we are addressing 
right now is the, out of the 1,570 people that came to my 
county, 1,500 were U.S. citizens coming down to commit 
international crime, based on greed. They are getting paid 
$3,000 per person to drive them three hours north up to 
Phoenix, Arizona and your neck of the woods, Congressman. It is 
a game of greed.
    When they get in those, when they pick them up along the 
highways and they take off at 100-and-some miles an hour that 
is resulting in death, it has put my citizens in risk. We see 
it almost every day in my county. That has been deadly for us.
    Mr. Biggs. So, if I understand what you are saying, cartels 
are recruiting American citizens from as far away as the Valley 
of the Sun, the Phoenix area, to come on down and transport 
people who have illegally entered the country up to Phoenix for 
further distribution throughout the country.
    Mr. Dannels. Congressman, that is correct, but to take it 
one step further, from throughout the United States. We get 
them from the Midwest. We get them from all over. We have a map 
where we get them from in our office.
    Mr. Biggs. What is the, and you said, what was the going 
rate that they get paid per person?
    Mr. Dannels. We started an operation back in March called 
Safe Streets, a collective effort of State, local, and Federal 
law enforcement trying to do some interdiction to protect our 
citizens. It was like 1,000-1,500. Right now, it sits at $3,000 
per person.
    Mr. Biggs. Have you ever had juveniles come down to drive 
as well?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes. I believe last year we apprehended and 
charged I think it was around 100 juveniles that were remanded 
as adults for driving, and all the way up to underage where 
they don't even have a license. We had, a couple weeks ago, we 
had a 14-year-old and a 15-year-old driving a car picking up I 
think five undocumented.
    Mr. Biggs. This is human smuggling.
    Mr. Dannels. This is human smuggling, yes.
    Mr. Biggs. You have given some pictures that are up here on 
display. What do those pictures depict?
    Mr. Dannels. The picture on the right side of the white 
truck and the red car, the red car had a 16-year-old, 17-year-
old, and I believe a 14-year-old. They were down from the Pinal 
County area, which is up by Casa Grande, down here to pick up 
migrants working with the criminal cartels and a scout. The car 
saw one of my deputy sheriffs, took off at a high rate of 
speed, hit the white car, and then crashed. All three were in 
critical condition and then were ejected from that vehicle.
    Mr. Biggs. This other one?
    Mr. Dannels. The other one was a vehicle out of Phoenix. It 
was a stolen vehicle that was in one of our business areas in a 
business parking lot. The Border Patrol saw them. They took off 
at a high rate of speed, got into a pursuit. They rammed the 
Border Patrol agent, the unmarked car. They were apprehended 
with the illegals.
    Mr. Biggs. There is so much more to talk about. I am sorry 
I am out of time. Thank you for being here, Sheriff Dannels.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentleman's time has expired. The 
gentleman from California, Mr. Schiff.
    Mr. Schiff. Thank you, Mr. Chair and thank you to Ranking 
Member Nadler for welcoming me back to the Committee. Mr. Dunn, 
thank you for your testimony today. I want to join my 
colleagues in expressing my condolence over your terrible loss.
    Since I last held a seat on this Committee over 10 years 
ago, our country has undergone some of its most turbulent 
years, from attacks on our democracy to increasing gun 
violence, including four mass shootings in my home State of 
California in just the last week, to continuing acts of racial 
injustice. Many of the issues that Americans are most concerned 
about fall within this Committee's jurisdiction.
    Instead of tackling those concerns or joining Democrats in 
a comprehensive immigration reform, many Republicans in 
Congress seem intent on demonizing migrant families and asylum 
seekers, portraying them as fentanyl traffickers and violent 
criminals.
    In the real world, asylum seekers are vulnerable 
individuals and families fleeing political persecution and 
torture. These terrible stereotypes that my Republican 
colleagues are peddling have real-world consequences and bring 
real-world harm as they increase the level of hate and violence 
directed at immigrants here at home.
    More than that, let me just take this opportunity to 
recognize the many immigrants who risked their lives during the 
pandemic to take care of us when we were sick in the hospital 
with COVID, who brought food to our grocery stores, and 
delivered goods to our doors, who worked in our fields, so we 
would not go hungry, and who died disproportionately because 
they could not work from home. I want to say thank you for your 
courage. Our country is better off for having you here.
    I want to start my questions by debunking a couple 
pernicious stereotypes. First, when it comes to drug 
trafficking, CBP reports that over 83 percent of smuggled 
fentanyl, heroin, and methamphetamine is discovered during 
vehicle inspections at ports of entry where people enter the 
country legally, not smuggled by migrants but driven across the 
border by U.S. citizens engaged in criminal activity at ports 
of entry.
    Judge Samaniego, the fentanyl crisis is real. How is it 
really entering the country in your experience, and who is 
doing the smuggling?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, as you said, Congressman, they are 
coming in through the port of entries. We do not get a lot of 
information of migrants doing that. As I said earlier, the fact 
that they are not carrying much with them and the fact that 
they have been vetted as they come in when we process them, and 
that is why I keep insisting that an organized way of 
processing and our ability to be able to process properly is 
really helping tremendously.
    When we do not do that and it pushes the migrants to have 
to go further out, that is when you start having these illegal 
entries, because there is not a way for them to come in 
properly and meet the Border Patrol there at the border. So, we 
know that going further creates risk for them. They get preyed 
on.
    So many things happen by not following the process. When we 
are allowed to do it and we are supported and funded properly, 
I think we do a lot for our country.
    Mr. Schiff. Thank you, Judge. Second, relative to 
undocumented immigrants, and using Texas as an example, U.S. 
born citizens in Texas are more than twice as likely to be 
arrested for violent crimes and two and a half times more 
likely to be arrested for drug crimes.
    Judge Samaniego, can you speak to the experiences and 
interactions you have had with migrant families and asylum 
seekers at the border? What is the real-life impact that such 
anti-migrant rhetoric and misinformation have on these 
communities?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, it is just, it is heartbreaking, 
obviously that, why they are coming in. They want to work. I 
will give you an example. We have had individuals that were 
held back because they got caught up in not being able to go 
back because of Title 42. They were asking for, give us brooms, 
give us bags. We want to, help us. We do not want to be 
perceived as lingering or burdening your community or any part 
of the country. They talk a lot about the fact that they are 
wanting to work. They are passionate about working. They are 
ready to do something for our country.
    We do not get--I interact with them completely. I work with 
the unaccompanied children. I have a lot of exposure. I feel 
extremely confident that the majority of them have no interest 
in drugs or doing anything like that, other than to work and to 
participate and be part of the dream that they are looking for. 
A lot of them, like I said, they are coming out of desperation 
of how they are treated in their countries, how they are 
persecuted. They are looking for a better life.
    I do not I stand here saying with all honesty that I do not 
see or understand some of the things that are said here today 
about them wanting to be part of drug cartels or putting them 
in that situation. It is just completely opposed to what I have 
experienced there in El Paso.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Schiff. Thank you, Judge.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentleman from Florida, Mr. Gaetz.
    Mr. Gaetz. I yield to Mr. Roy.
    Mr. Roy. I thank the gentleman from Florida. I thank the 
witnesses for being here.
    I just want to clarify the record here for a second. The 
idea that the fact that fentanyl is caught at Ports of Entry 
and that this is the only place that is coming through is 
belied by the facts. It is belied by the facts that the Border 
Patrol is now distracted in processing human beings, just as 
the judge from El Paso just described, but just ignores the 
impact on what that does to the actual border. The Border 
Patrol can't possibly catch all the fentanyl at the ports of 
entry nor catch the fentanyl between the ports of entry.
    Mr. Dannels, do you agree with that assessment?
    Mr. Dannels. I do. We have had a depletion in Border Patrol 
because they have been taken to other areas where processing is 
more important.
    Mr. Roy. Is it your experience that fentanyl pours in 
between the ports of entry and that fentanyl does, in fact, get 
into our communities in mass quantities today due to our open 
border?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. I appreciate that.
    Now, Mr. Dunn, obviously in the introduction I talked about 
you being from the county in which I live, in Hays County. You 
testified, Mr. Dunn, earlier that it was not just Noah who 
passed away in Hays County last year due to fentanyl poisoning 
in our community. Is it not true that three other Hays 
Independent School District students died from fentanyl 
overdoses in our community, in Hays County, last summer? Is 
that accurate?
    Mr. Dunn. That is correct. A fourth 14-year-old died in 
January of this year.
    Mr. Roy. Just a couple of weeks ago--
    Mr. Dunn. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. Another--
    Mr. Dunn. During the Christmas break, six other students 
were poisoned by fentanyl, but they were successfully saved.
    Mr. Roy. Last summer there were another eight who were 
brought back through the use of Narcan. Is that correct?
    Mr. Dunn. Correct.
    Mr. Roy. Mr. Dunn, your lovely bride, Janel, is Hispanic, 
yes?
    Mr. Dunn. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. Do you believe that believing in a secure border 
makes one racist or anti-Hispanic?
    Mr. Dunn. Not in the slightest. Her family actually holds 
that same position.
    Mr. Roy. I thank you for that. You guys have been active 
now in a number of organizations trying to get out and 
understand the lost voices of fentanyl. Is that right?
    Mr. Dunn. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. Works with Ms. Virginia Krieger.
    Mr. Dunn. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. She has lost her daughter due to Percocet that was 
laced in fentanyl. Is that correct?
    Mr. Dunn. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. The people that have been the lost faces of 
fentanyl, and I have done this before, Noah is one of these 
lost voices due to fentanyl now.
    Mr. Dunn. He is now. I am not sure if he is included in 
that picture.
    Mr. Roy. These pictures are the faces of Americans who are 
no longer with us due to fentanyl flowing throughout our 
communities. Now, these are young individuals who are not here 
today. Now, Noah is not here today.
    Do you care precisely whether or not fentanyl is coming 
through ports of entry or between ports of entry, or was your 
family directly impacted because fentanyl is flooding into our 
communities one way or the other?
    Mr. Dunn. However, it gets here is it is here.
    Mr. Roy. In your experience talking to other family members 
and talking to law enforcement personnel, is it your 
observation and belief that the overwhelming flood at our 
borders distracting Border Patrol from being able to carry out 
their duty to stop the flow between the ports of entry or do 
inspections at the ports of entry is resulting in more fentanyl 
pouring into our communities that is then resulting in the 
death of Americans and, in fact, the death of migrants in the 
process?
    Mr. Dunn. Yes. Most of the fathers that I speak with that 
are not as vocal as the mothers, the common thing they have 
expressed to me is to come up here and let people know that it 
is a border issue. It is not an immigration issue. It is 
flooding across the borders because there is a problem at the 
borders.
    Mr. Roy. In your communication with families who have lost 
loved ones due to fentanyl poisonings, do you believe that it 
is an imperative, an imperative that this country's Federal 
Government, who has the constitutional obligation to secure the 
border of the United States, do so to ensure that we stop the 
flow of fentanyl and dangerous and illicit narcotics into the 
United States resulting in the death of Americans?
    Mr. Dunn. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. Do you believe that if this country adopted 
policies that enabled us to restrict and stop the flow of 
fentanyl, and that includes ensuring that we have no longer a 
flood of human beings at our border, while still maintaining 
asylum laws and protecting people who are being persecuted 
under actual threat of persecution for their religious and 
political beliefs, do you believe that stopping the flow of 
individuals enabling Border Patrol to stop fentanyl, that is a 
critical imperative and if that were adopted would help save 
lives like Noah's?
    Mr. Dunn. I do. Most others that I talk with feel the same 
way.
    Mr. Roy. Thank you, Mr. Dunn. Thank you, Janel. I yield 
back.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentleman's time has expired. The 
gentleman from Rhode Island, Mr. Cicilline.
    Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to our 
witnesses, and particularly thank you, Mr. Dunn, for being 
here. I, too, join my colleagues and expresses our condolences 
for your unspeakable loss.
    Mr. Chair, the House Republican border security plan is one 
of the most extreme stances this body has seen on immigration 
in recent history, and that is saying something. It is so 
extreme that dozens of Republican members oppose it. Some have 
even called it un-American.
    The Republican plan would effectively shut down asylum, 
including families fleeing Communism, totalitarian regimes, and 
unaccompanied children desperately seeking refuge. This is not 
only a moral failing to asylum seekers fleeing persecution. It 
also defies existing laws. We have obligations under 
international agreements and U.S. domestic law to accept and 
protect asylum seekers. We can't just ignore these obligations 
because some want to prey on anti-immigration and xenophobic 
sentiments to gin up political support.
    This is sadly an ongoing and blatant attempt by our 
Republican colleagues to use fear tactics to scare us into 
turning immigrants away and to demonizing people coming here in 
search of a better life. We cannot and should not do that.
    Democrats have put forth proposals that will actually help 
fix our broken immigration system and secure our borders in a 
safe and humane way. We have proposed legislation that 
addresses the root causes of migration, improves border 
security, and creates additional legal pathways for people to 
enter the United States.
    In fact, the 2023 Omnibus bill which we passed in December, 
even included funding to help Customs and Border Patrol stop 
dangerous cartels, the actual cause of drugs being smuggled 
into the country, not asylum seekers by the way. Our House 
Judiciary Republicans unanimously opposed the bill. So, yes, 
there is a crisis at the border. It is not the one that the 
Republican leadership is shouting about.
    So, Judge Samaniego, I want to ask you, in your capacity as 
El Paso County Judge, you meet with many migrants who enter the 
United States via the El Paso Port of Entry, and you work very 
hard to ensure that they are treated with dignity here in the 
United States. Can you describe what your sense is of why these 
migrants are entering the U.S., and are they, in fact, seeking 
asylum?
    Mr. Samaniego. I would like to comment about Border Patrol. 
That is, we have been talking about what they have to do, and 
you are pushing them to do other things. I can tell you that if 
we weren't doing our jobs, and I said earlier, we are pushing 
that back to them, very limited. Space is limited. Personnel is 
limited. We are pushing them back to them.
    Like I said, we deal a lot, El Paso deals a lot with 
migrants, and we interact tremendously. We get to see them at 
shelters. We get to see them at the point of entry. They are 
wanting to come here to work. They are wanting to do something 
for our country.
    I have to stress that, that we are very, very lucky. The 
things that they want to do and the things they want to 
maintain, and the values that they have for the United States, 
it is just remarkable that under all the circumstances that 
they go through they come to our country with a tremendous 
amount of passion to be part of our value system.
    Mr. Cicilline. Judge, what kinds of resources do border 
counties like yours need to ensure that local officials are 
able to adequately protect public health and safety while also 
ensuring that migrants are treated with dignity and processed 
quickly and efficiently and consistent with our values as the 
great democracy we are? What more can we do as a Federal 
Government to help you do the excellent work that you are doing 
in El Paso?
    Mr. Samaniego. The most important thing that we have seen 
is decompression that we need the Border Patrol to be able to 
decompress and allow us to process. So, sometimes, like I said, 
we are not funded properly. We cannot process properly. Then 
that is when you have people or buses going into communities 
that are not ready for them.
    Obviously, we need shelter. Most of the migrants will move 
out within 72 hours. I can tell you that not even 1 percent of 
the migrants ever stay in our community. They are moving to 
other directions. They have got sponsorships. So, we really 
need that support of being able to have shelter for them so 
that we can accommodate them. Like I said, 40 percent already 
have sponsors, and they can move quickly. The others it takes 
us about a day or maybe 72 hours to be able to process them or 
redirect them.
    I can tell you that most of them are going to be U.S. 
citizens. If you treat them wrongly, they will remember that. 
If you treat them properly and you treat them with respect and 
humanity and humanitarianism, these are going to be part of our 
residents, part of our citizens. This is the first face that 
they have with our country. I want to be able for them to keep 
that excitement, have that respect for America. You do that by 
treating them properly.
    So, we need shelter. We need food. We need to be able to 
use our strategy. Our strategy works. I wish that someone would 
take the time to look at what we do. For four years now we have 
been working on this strategy.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentleman's time has expired. I will 
now recognize myself for five minutes.
    I think this discussion has brought out something that 
Border Patrol officers told me when I toured the border in the 
Yuma sector recently. Don't send us more money they said. They 
will only use it to process illegals faster into this country. 
I think that the testimony has been bringing that out very 
clearly today.
    Since Joe Biden canceled the Remain in Mexico policy and 
ordered ICE not to enforce court-ordered deportations and 
abandoned the border wall and signaled to the world that 
America's borders no longer mattered, we have seen 1.7 million 
illegal aliens deliberately admitted into this country, and 
another 1.2 million known got-aways have entered while the 
Border Patrol has been overwhelmed changing diapers and taking 
names. Now, that is an illegal alien population of 2.9 million. 
That is the entire population of the State of Mississippi just 
since this administration changed these policies and 
precipitated this crisis. As the Democrat's witness testified, 
illegal aliens are now being rapidly and efficiently trafficked 
by our government to every community in our Nation.
    What the Democrats have never explained is how our schools 
are made better by packing classrooms with non-English speaking 
students, how our hospitals are made more accessible by 
flooding emergency rooms with illegals demanding care, how our 
social safety net is strengthened by adding millions of 
impoverished and dependent individuals to systems that are 
already strained to the breaking point, how our neighborhoods 
are made safer by introducing violent cartels into our 
communities and making it impossible to deport criminal illegal 
aliens, how our Nation is made safer as known terrorists are 
encountered entering our country in record numbers, how our 
children are made more secure with fentanyl pouring across our 
border, or how working families are helped by flooding the 
labor market with cheap, illegal labor. This is the nightmare 
that the Democrats have unleashed upon our country.
    I asked the same group of Border Patrol agents in Yuma what 
laws could we write that would help them. They said unanimously 
the first thing we need to do is enforce our existing laws. 
This administration clearly doesn't intend to do so. The laws 
that we will write in the House I am afraid are not going to 
survive the Democratic Senate or get Joe Biden's signature. So, 
this situation is going to continue to escalate and continue to 
worsen.
    It is already being felt intensely in our major cities and 
rural communities. New York City taxpayers are paying for 
luxury accommodations to house this flood of illegal aliens 
there. Fentanyl trafficked across the southwest border killed 
71,000 people in America last year alone. In Tulare County, 
California a cartel just viciously executed six innocent 
victims. I believe this country is going to soon awaken to a 
coordinated terrorist attack by elements that have entered 
through our porous border or with violent cartel wars erupting 
on our own streets.
    Our witnesses today tell the story of what their lives are 
now like in the border communities. Of course, these illegal 
aliens don't stay in the border communities. They are being 
trafficked to every community in America.
    So, I would like to ask Sheriff Dannels what he believes 
our communities should expect as this mass illegal migration 
makes its way from his community to ours.
    Mr. Dannels. Thank you, Congressman. Let me start off by 
saying this. I know we are hitting on immigration, and I am 
here on border security. I will say this. You made a comment 
that they don't stay in our border communities. There is one 
instance they do stay in our border communities. That is when 
they die.
    Over the last two years, we have over 1,000 migrants touch 
U.S. soil coming across our border illegally that have died, 
that sheriffs, the 31 sheriffs on the border have had to 
process as homicides until proven otherwise. That is 1,000 
migrants under inhumane conditions smuggled by the criminal 
cartels that we have left in our border communities and left 
families in Mexico mourning. So, there is a consequence to this 
open border.
    Second, these sheriffs, these police chiefs, and these 
communities are doing the impact. I have heard it from 
Democrats. I have heard from Republicans. I will say this to 
you. I didn't drive out here, come out here 2,000 miles with a 
political agenda. I came out here with a public safety agenda. 
That is to protect all people. Well, you got to do that by 
starting with border security. That is where it starts.
    Then we got to look at our immigration laws. I agree with 
you, Congressman. We have the laws to address it, legal, legal, 
legal. I will say that. They can come to any port. I can 
promise you my two international ports in my county they don't 
come there.
    The only time we saw asylum claims on our two port of 
entries was when the cartels were having an internal rift and 
shot over 40 people within--we watched it happen from our 
international line in my county. We had cartel members claiming 
credible fear that were allowed in our country, that were 
allowed in our country that just executed somebody and then 
come in and claim credible fear because the other side was 
trying to kill them.
    So, we have a problem on our border. We truly do. We need 
your help, your help to fix it. Thank you.
    Mr. McClintock. My time has expired. The gentleman from 
California, Mr. Swalwell.
    Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Dunn, thank you for coming today. We all 
share your love and passion for Noah and the determination to 
get something done. I have a family member by the grace of God 
is alive today after addiction and, also, sadly know somebody 
who has died because of fentanyl. I also believe there is 
bipartisan support to take on China for its role in exporting 
fentanyl.
    Sheriff Dannels, also thank you for doing a very hard job.
    Mr. Dannels. Thank you, Congressman.
    Mr. Swalwell. I have a few brothers who are deputy 
sheriffs. You have got a very, very tough job, especially just 
where you are in the world. Would it help your job or hurt your 
job if you had 20,000 more Border Patrol agents assisting you 
on the Texas U.S. border?
    Mr. Dannels. Speaking on behalf of, Congressman, on behalf 
of my brothers and sisters from CBP, I would say that would 
help.
    Mr. Swalwell. Yes, I agree. We passed legislation in the 
Senate that would have done that. I wish we could get a vote on 
that in the House.
    I also just want to talk to you. My brothers sometimes are 
a part of raids. It is a car stop. You take guns and drugs out 
of the car. You put them on a table. You have a press 
conference. It is a deterrent to future criminals. You show and 
hold up the law enforcement who did that. Sometimes they raid 
houses on search warrants. Again, they find illegal drugs and 
guns and paraphernalia.
    Do you consider those types of raids that your department 
have done, are those successes or failures when that happens?
    Mr. Dannels. They are a little bit of both, I will say, 
Congressman.
    Mr. Swalwell. A failure because the drugs are in the 
community but a success because you all caught them.
    Mr. Dannels. Yes.
    Mr. Swalwell. The reason I bring that up is because I think 
too often many of my colleagues on the other side have rooted 
on some of the chaos around this issue and don't want to be a 
part of the solutions or the change.
    So, recently there have been a number of tweets that my 
colleagues have posted, one of them from Mr. Gooden. It says,

         . . . enough fentanyl to kill 140 million Americans was seized 
        at the southern border in June. In honor of Overdose Awareness 
        Week, I am calling on Joe Biden to close his open border.

Then Mr. Buck said,

         . . . since November enough fentanyl to kill 2.1 billion 
        people has been seized at the southern border. We must secure 
        the border and protect our children and families.

The Chair of the Republican caucus, Ms. Stefanik, said,

         . . . over 800 pounds of fentanyl were seized at our southern 
        border in October. This is Biden's border crisis.

This is just cheering on chaos instead of honoring the police 
who did the tough job, the hard work, and seized the drugs and 
took them off the streets.
    If we want to talk about some of the fentanyl facts, 96 
percent of the fentanyl seized in the last Fiscal Year was 
seized at ports of entry. Eighty-six percent of the convictions 
around fentanyl coming across our border were convictions of 
U.S. persons, 86 percent. So, we should talk about fentanyl. We 
should go after China.
    This is chaos, what I am seeing from my Republican 
colleagues. When George Bush had successes, rightful successes, 
stopping the war on terror, I never heard my Republican 
colleagues say, well, someone was stopped from carrying out a 
terrorist attack. This is George Bush's terrorism crisis.
    We should celebrate law enforcement. We should not deride 
them and use them to make points that actually don't even land, 
because the fentanyl crisis is not happening where you all are 
claiming it is happening. So, I will take this opportunity, and 
I will thank Sheriff Dannels, and the men and women he works 
with, and I will thank CBP for the hard work they do. I invite 
my colleagues to join us, not in chaos, but in change.
    Finally, Mr. Roy's bill that is a part of this hearing 
would seek to end asylum, an asylum process that has brought to 
the United States some of the best minds in science, some of 
the best athletes in the world, some of the best diplomats like 
Secretary Madeleine Albright.
    One person recently said with respect to Mr. Roy's bill and 
proposal, are we stupid, come on. This country was based on 
good minds. Look at Albert Einstein. We gave him a piece of 
paper to come in. We are letting the Albert Einstein of this 
modern time slip away. It wasn't a Democrat who said that. It 
was Mr. Roy's Republican colleague, Representative Maria Elvira 
Salazar.
    So, I invite my colleagues, listen to your own colleagues 
who know better on this issue, because it could use a lot more 
change and solutions and a lot less chaos. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. [Presiding.] The gentleman yields back. The 
gentleman from North Carolina is recognized, Mr. Bishop.
    Mr. Bishop. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr., Judge Samaniego?
    Mr. Samaniego. Yes, sir?
    Mr. Bishop. Did you hear about the conflict between the 
Mexican army and the Sinaloa cartel in the city of Culiacan 
in--earlier this month?
    Mr. Samaniego. I did.
    Mr. Bishop. As described in The Guardian it said that they 
captured Ovidio Guzman, son of El Chapo, prompting a wave of 
retaliatory attacks from cartel gunmen. After a night of 
violence gunmen exchanged fire with security forces blocking 
roads with burning vehicles and shooting at army helicopters 
and police airplanes bringing reinforcements to the city. 
According to one resident heavy fighting raged for hours after 
Guzman, a key figure in the Sinaloa cartel since the arrest of 
his father, was arrested in the city early on Thursday.
    It goes on to say that residents were locked into their 
homes. All major roads into the city were blocked with burning 
vehicles and gunmen attacked a military air base. It goes on.
    You would agree that the cartels are dangerous 
organizations, aren't they?
    Mr. Samaniego. They are.
    Mr. Bishop. They have come to have extraordinary capacity 
to operate in Mexico to the point that they can take on the 
Mexican army. Isn't that true?
    Mr. Samaniego. I'm not sure that's a true statement, but--
    Mr. Bishop. Well, in this case they actually had a running 
battle with the Mexican army where helicopter gunships were 
deployed to fire, and they were firing at them. There was an 
open warfare in the city. You do understand that, right, sir?
    Mr. Samaniego. I do understand that.
    Mr. Bishop. You don't see it as possible that in a future 
with an uncontrolled border, a border we can't control, that 
those same conditions could exist on the streets of American 
cities?
    Mr. Samaniego. I believe that's not the case because I 
think we're mixing two things. We're mixing one, and that's 
unrest. We have unrest ourselves here in the United States just 
like in Mexico. We're mixing two things.
    Mr. Bishop. Are the cartels strengthened by the fees they 
receive for trafficking humans across the border?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, I think there's a lot of assumptions 
in that--
    [Simultaneous speaking.]
    Mr. Bishop. Is that a hard question to answer yes or no?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, give me the question straight so I can 
understand what you--
    [Simultaneous speaking.]
    Mr. Bishop. My understanding is that billions in income 
come to the cartels and by--according to the Border Patrol 
officers I have met they say nobody comes across the Rio 
Grande, nobody comes across the border without paying a fee of 
thousands. Many of these people don't have thousands. So, they 
enter a life of indentured servitude until they pay it off. 
Their family might be tortured to pay for it. The cartels earn 
billions from it. Is that not trueto your knowledge?
    Mr. Samaniego. It's true. It's true, but it's true on the 
Trump era as well.
    Mr. Bishop. OK.
    Mr. Samaniego. It's not--it has nothing to do with--
    Mr. Bishop. I don't even think it is--necessarily should be 
a battle between Republicans and Democrats about who is--who 
gets kudos for stopping the flood across the border, but isn't 
it true that the policy is strengthening the cartels, these 
dangerous cartels that can operate in the open and conduct open 
warfare with the Mexican army?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, I think you're talking about the root 
cause, and that's a broken system. We have to shoulder a broken 
system there in our community.
    Mr. Bishop. So, we just deplore it as a broken system, but 
we don't need to respond as if this is an emergency and a 
threat to the United States, that the same conditions could 
occur here?
    Mr. Samaniego. I'm not understanding how you're mixing the 
two things of trying to help asylum seekers that's part of our 
policy.
    Mr. Bishop. Well, if this transnational criminal cartel 
organizations that exist and they are capable of doing what 
they are doing in Mexico, and they are being strengthened day 
in and day out and their drug trade is producing profits and 
expanding their forces in the United States, isn't it just a 
matter of time and amount before they can do the same thing 
here that they do there?
    Mr. Samaniego. We've seen this for 50-60 years, cartels 
doing that and the fights that happen between them. We live 
that. We happen to be one of the safest--when Mexico was the 
worst in the world in violence, we were still the safest 
community in the country.
    Mr. Bishop. So, you are copacetic about it? You think there 
is not a threat to the United States?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, there's a threat, but I cannot 
understand what we're here for immigration. We're here to 
discuss what's the right thing to do for immigration. I've 
always said that when you mix two, it gets very complicated. 
It's complicated enough to look at them separately, much less 
when you combine the two. When you try to talk about the drugs 
and try to talk about immigration, it gets so mixed up that you 
can resolve it. So, I'd like to really focus on the fact that 
we need to do the best thing that we can.
    Mr. Bishop. I am out of time. I would let you go on. I 
question your conclusion about what is humane and what is not, 
and with that I yield back.
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, thank you, sir.
    Mr. Biggs. [Presiding.] The Chair recognizes the gentleman 
from California, Mr. Lieu.
    Mr. Lieu. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let me start off by noting 
that the Chair of this Full Judiciary Committee lawfully defied 
a bipartisan congressional subpoena.
    Now, Mr. Dunn, thank you for coming here today. Sorry for 
your loss and thank you for sharing your story and your efforts 
working on the fentanyl issue.
    Judge Samaniego, I have some questions for you about 
fentanyl.
    Mr. Samaniego. Thank you.
    Mr. Lieu. I agree with my Republican and Democratic 
colleagues that we need to tackle this issue. It is your 
experience, isn't it, that the overwhelming majority of 
fentanyl seizures occur at ports of entry and not from migrants 
bringing them across the border? Is that right?
    Mr. Samaniego. That's correct. That's what we understand, 
that's what we know. We work so close with law enforcement, 
Border Patrol, ICE, and we do not get that suggestion that it's 
the migrants. We talk directly to them. It's not the migrants 
that have that issue. It's at the Port of Entry by Americans, 
by the way, that are crossing into the United States more so 
than any other form that comes through our borders.
    Mr. Lieu. In fact, your experience is actually what the 
data shows. So, I have an article here from the Cato Institute, 
which is a libertarian think tank. The title of it is, 
``Fentanyl is Smuggled for U.S. Citizens by U.S. Citizens.'' 
What the facts from this article show are that in 2021 U.S. 
citizens were 86.3 percent of the convicted fentanyl 
traffickers. In addition, over 90 percent of fentanyl seizures 
occur at legal crossing points or interior vehicle checkpoints.
    So, if we really want to tackle the bulk of this issue, 
what we want to do is strengthen technology at legal point of 
entry, at the ports of entry. We want to give Border Patrol 
more resources at these ports of entry to address the fentanyl 
seizures.
    Thank you to all the Border Patrol agents that the 
Republicans have highlighted repeatedly for how much they have 
been seizing in fentanyl, because they are doing their job.
    I would like to ask unanimous consent to enter this article 
from the Cato Institute titled, ``Fentanyl is Smuggled for U.S. 
Citizens by U.S. Citizens Not by Asylum Seekers.''
    Mr. Biggs. Without objection.
    Mr. Lieu. So, Sheriff Dannels, thank you for your public 
service.
    Mr. Dannels. Thank you, Congressman.
    Mr. Lieu. Do you know which American president said, ``for 
decades the United States has not been in complete control of 
its borders?''
    Mr. Dannels. No.
    Mr. Lieu. That president was George W. Bush in 2006. Are 
you familiar with Operation Intercept at all?
    Mr. Dannels. I'm not.
    Mr. Lieu. OK. That was an operation put in by an American 
President that basically shut down the southern border for 
about three weeks. Then it was lifted because it was not 
sustainable. That American president was Richard Nixon.
    This hearing is titled Biden's Border Crisis. That is 
completely wrong. It is not Biden's border crisis. This has 
been a crisis for over half a century from Nixon and every 
American president after him. They have not addressed this 
issue. I am going to read you some comments from various 
American presidents.

        Eighty to ninety percent of the heroin that comes into U.S. 
        today comes across our southern border.

You know who said that? President Ford said that.

        Millions of undocumented aliens have illegally immigrated to 
        the U.S. They have breached our Nation's immigration laws, 
        displaced many American citizens from jobs, and placed 
        increased financial burden on many states and local 
        governments.

President Carter said that.

        The ongoing migration of persons to the United States in 
        violation of our laws is a serious national problem.

President Reagan said that.

        I was especially concerned about the growing problem of alien 
        smuggling, international terrorists hiding behind immigrant 
        status.

President Clinton said that.
    I could go on and on. The only folks that can actually fix 
this problem is U.S. Congress by passing laws. We had a chance 
to do that with a bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform 
bill that passed the U.S. Senate on a bipartisan basis. Guess 
who stopped it? House Republicans.
    So, it is simply false narrative that this is Biden's 
border crisis. It is a crisis of over half a century and the 
people that can stop it are we in Congress. I urge Republicans 
instead of doing hearings and doing talking points actually 
work with Democrats on a comprehensive immigration bill that 
will, in fact, solve this problem.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Biggs. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Texas, 
Mr. Roy.
    Mr. Roy. I thank the Chair.
    Mr. Dannels, with respect to that previous point, there has 
been about 4.7 million apprehensions under the current 
administration. Is that unprecedented in your eyes?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. The 2.7 million people have been released into the 
United States. Is that unprecedented and, in fact, way off the 
charts compared to past numbers?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. The extent to which fentanyl is pouring in our 
communities, is that precedent?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. Is it precedented? It is unprecedented, correct?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes, yes.
    Mr. Roy. I would ask the Judge Samaniego. You testified 
that there is no invasion. There were 162,000 encounters in the 
El Paso sector alone in the first quarter of this fiscal year. 
Does that sound correct according to Border Patrol numbers?
    Mr. Samaniego. That's correct.
    Mr. Roy. Fifty-five thousand in December alone. Is that 
correct?
    Mr. Samaniego. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. We had the Democrat mayor El Paso who has been 
bussing people to New York City. Truth?
    Mr. Samaniego. No.
    Mr. Roy. The Democrat mayor of El Paso has not been putting 
people on buses sending them to New York City?
    Mr. Samaniego. Not without notification at the other end.
    Mr. Roy. OK. They are putting them on buses and sending 
them to New York City. New York City today is asking the 
Federal Government for money to process individuals that they 
are dealing with overflowing in New York City.
    Now, you testified earlier that you weren't getting help 
from the State of Texas. Now, the city of El Paso declared 
emergency, but has the county declared emergency?
    Mr. Samaniego. No.
    Mr. Roy. No. The county has not declared emergency.
    Mr. Samaniego. No, we did not.
    Mr. Roy. The earlier testimony that you had, before you 
testified that this effort to wanting to secure the border is 
racist. So, here is a question for you: Fifty percent of Border 
Patrol are Hispanic. Border Patrol overwhelmingly wants us to 
change policies to secure the border, not just as some are 
testifying that we need more resources. I know that Mr. 
Dannels, Sheriff Dannels testified that having 20,000 
additional agents would be helpful. The answer to that is of 
course. Of course, having more personnel would be helpful.
    The question is what do they most want? Sheriff Dannels, 
what does Border Patrol most want to secure the border? Do they 
want policy changes to actually enforce the law or do they want 
more resources? Which would they rank higher?
    Mr. Dannels. Policy changes.
    Mr. Roy. What kind of policy changes? Enforcing the laws of 
the United States at the border?
    Mr. Dannels. Enforce the rule of law. I'll share this add-
on, too. Support from--they feel like they're not being 
supported by this administration.
    Mr. Roy. If we had a law that said that we should follow 
current law to detain individuals claiming asylum for the 
pendency of the adjudication of that claim, to require that 
they be detained according to current law, would that be 
banning asylum?
    Mr. Dannels. No.
    Mr. Roy. If people are claiming in this Committee that it 
is banning asylum, would that be untrue?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. Hector Garza works in Laredo, Texas for Border 
Patrol. He is a friend. He is Hispanic. He said,
    ``The mother of all caravans isn't just materializing out 
of the ether. It is just the most recent wave of an invasion 
that is being aided and abetted by liberal activists who 
believe that subverting United States law is the best way to 
achieve the radical policy objectives.''
    Mr. Dannels, do you believe that Hispanic Border Patrol 
Agent Hector Garza is racist by describing what we are 
experiencing at the border as an invasion and suggesting that 
it is, in fact, the policies of liberal activists represented 
by my Democratic colleagues in this Committee and in this 
House, that this is what is subverting United States law? Do 
you believe that is racist?
    Mr. Dannels. No.
    Mr. Roy. Judge Samaniego, do you believe that there--in 
light of your statement saying that these policies are being 
promoted to secure the border, do you think that Border Patrol 
Agent Hector Garza, a lifelong public servant working for the 
Border Patrol in Laredo, Texas and Hispanic, a Texan, is racist 
for that Hispanic American to say that it is an invasion, that 
his Border Patrol personnel are overwhelmed, that he believes 
that it is the liberal policies that are making a mockery of 
our current laws to say that we should enforce the laws, that 
we should enforce the laws on the books, that this is, in fact, 
a racist statement by Hispanic Border Patrol Agent Hector 
Garza?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, it's a freedom of speech and he can 
say whatever he needs to say. I can tell you that if you asked 
a Border Patrol in El Paso, they're looking for assistance, 
that we do not detain them because they don't have the space, 
they don't have the personnel.
    Mr. Roy. I appreciate that, but I would just suggest to you 
is that this is not a racist statement to say that we should 
secure the border.
    This chart, Mr. Dannels, can you see it from there? Can you 
see the uptick in the numbers here, way up here?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. That chart reflects the uptick in migrant deaths. 
That is 2020-2022. Almost 1,000 migrant deaths at the southwest 
border of the United States. We had 53 migrants die in a 
tractor-trailer in San Antonio, cooked in the Texas heat. 
Fifty-seven were killed when a tractor-trailer crammed with 
migrants rolled over the highway crashing in Mexico's southern 
State of Chiapas.
    Answer me this: Is it Christian for migrants to be treated 
like that and to die in tractor-trailers? Would anybody on this 
panel think it is Christian?
    Mr. Biggs. Time.
    Mr. Roy Mr. Dunn, you go to church in Hays County. Is it 
Christian to allow migrants to die like that?
    Mr. Dunn. No.
    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time is expired.
    Mr. Dunn. Is not.
    Mr. Roy. Thank you, Mr. Dunn.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Before I call any--I have a few 
articles that I want to read into the record. ``El Paso Forced 
to Bus Immigrants Out of Town Amid Mid-Mass Migration,'' from 
the New York Post; ``El Paso Joins Governor Greg Abbott in 
Bussing Migrants to New York City,'' from Texas Tribune; and 
``El Paso Looks Like a Third-World Country After Texas Border 
City . . .'' from the New York Post. Without objection.
    I recognize the gentlelady from Washington, Ms. Jayapal.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
    I want to thank the witnesses, all of you, for being here. 
Mr. Dunn, I want to express--join my colleagues in expressing 
my condolences to you and your wife Janel and your family for 
your profound loss of Noah.
    For four years Donald Trump pursued some of the most 
inhumane immigration policies as president. He cruelly tore 
thousands of children from their parents and did everything in 
his power to dismantle any parts of the U.S. legal immigration 
system and refugee resettlement system, a system that has been 
called the crown jewel of American humanitarianism, not by 
liberal radicals, but actually by the Association of 
Evangelicals.
    Today my colleagues across the aisle want to go even 
further than Donald Trump with policies that would effectively 
end asylum and place unaccompanied children in remain-in-
Mexico-type proceedings. Not even Donald Trump went that far. 
Don't take my word for how extreme this is. Even other 
Republicans have said that these proposals go too far, calling 
them extreme, and again not liberal radicals calling them 
extreme or calling them anti-American. That was from another 
Republican, other Republicans in this Congress.
    In fact, one Texas Republican said, and I quote,

        Border security and immigration are two separate topics. One 
        can be for a strong border security presence that prevents 
        terrorists, fentanyls, and bad actors from entering our country 
        and one can be for welcoming future Americans in through the 
        front door.

    So, here are some facts: Since Congress created the 
Department of Homeland Security in 2003 we have spent over $350 
billion on the agencies that enforce immigration law. Federal 
immigration spending has surpassed what was promised in 
multiple immigration bills that would have reformed the actual 
system so that there are legal pathways for people to come to 
this country. We know that throwing money at the border without 
also fixing the legal immigration system is not going to be 
successful.
    We have passed in December 2022, Democrats passed the 
Fiscal Year 2023 omnibus which included $60 million to hire 
additional CBP officers and support personnel at ports of 
entry, another 70 million to strengthen nonintrusive inspection 
systems that scan vehicles and cargo to disrupt the flow of 
drugs including fentanyl at ports of entry. Not one of my 
Republican colleagues voted for that legislation.
    In June 2020, Congress passed the Infrastructure Bill which 
included $430 million to modernize our ports of entry and 
improve CBP's ability to detect illicit drugs. Two hundred 
House Republicans voted against it. We put that money in 
because we know that over 90 percent of fentanyl is seized at 
ports of entry.
    Now, I understand that the issues that we are talking about 
today require my Republican colleagues to tell a lot of 
statements that aren't true, to use Nativist rhetoric, words 
like invasion and flooding that have actually been used 
throughout the history of this country to demonize immigrants 
to this country, different waves of immigrants that have come 
into this country, but that is not the way that we are going to 
solve this problem.
    Judge Samaniego, I want to thank you for your service and 
also for sending us the wonderful Congresswoman Escobar, who is 
such an important voice here on this Committee and in this 
Congress.
    I want to call your attention to this chart that shows that 
when the Biden Administration rolled out a clear process for 
Haitians to seek admission into the United States in June-
August 2021 and then again beginning in April 2022 the number 
of Haitians presenting themselves at ports of entry increased. 
In fact, as we maintained that clear legal process for 
Haitians, people coming outside of the process basically ended.
    In your experience meeting with people seeking safety do 
you hear a persistent desire to follow a legal process to enter 
the United States?
    Mr. Samaniego. Absolutely. I've seen some incredible 
situations where they're waiting in Juarez under very difficult 
circumstances. Sometimes the only reason they cross is because 
it gets so difficult for them. So, they really, really are 
interested in doing the right thing.
    I'm glad you mentioned the separation of children. There's 
nothing more heartbreaking. I want to give credit to our 
Congresswoman who's really stepped up. So, sometimes it doesn't 
take a law. It just takes a person. In El Paso and everywhere 
else no longer is there separation of children because she 
found it to be offensive. She stood up for it. She's championed 
for that, and we would no longer do that. I think that's quite 
an accomplishment.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you. My time is yielded.
    I do ask unanimous consent, Mr. Chair, to enter the 
following statements into the record. The American Immigration 
Lawyers Association, Church World Services, Coalition for 
Humane Immigrant Rights, First Focus Campaign for Children, 
Human Rights First, Kids in Need of Defense, National 
Immigration Law Center, National Immigration Project, Project 
on Government Oversight, and the Southern Border Communities 
Coalition.
    Mr. Biggs. Without objection.
    I recognize the gentlelady from Indiana, Ms. Spartz.
    Ms. Spartz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Judge Samaniego, do you 
believe in the rule of law?
    Mr. Samaniego. Pardon me?
    Ms. Spartz. Do you believe in the rule of law?
    Mr. Samaniego. Absolutely.
    Ms. Spartz. So, let me ask you a question.
    You were talking about asylum seekers. How many of them are 
actually legitimate asylum seekers, cases percentagewise, based 
on the current law?
    Mr. Samaniego. I think that's an impossible question 
because they have the right to say that they have credible 
fear. It is not my position or my role to, to determine whether 
that is true or not, but that is the court's.
    Ms. Spartz. The cases when you go and look at these cases, 
what is the percentage of that actually legitimate? What do you 
assess that it actually was not abused?
    Mr. Samaniego. From the stories I have heard, and what they 
go through, and how they are persecuted in their countries and 
how they are treated, and it is not economically driven as much 
as it is fear-driven.
    Ms. Spartz. So, what is the percentage that is, that could 
be legitimate?
    Now, when I was in Texas a few years ago and I talked to 
some people there, I have actually been in El Paso, too, it was 
under 10 percent. I am not sure if this number changed now. 
Would you say that majority of them are not?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, you are asking for a nonobjective. I 
can't say that.
    Ms. Spartz. OK. Then let me question. If there are a lot of 
illegitimate cases do you think it hurts legitimate asylum 
seekers that actually can be killed by their government?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, absolutely. I mean, they are seeking 
to get away from their difficult situation. I cannot tell you. 
That is up to the court.
    Ms. Spartz. Do you believe that, you know, and I agree with 
you that it shouldn't be where the court really should be doing 
it because we are delaying the process. Do you believe that 
have such a large number of people at the border doesn't allow 
now actually to help legitimate people that could be dead, 
because we have some people that--very desperate people?
    Don't get me wrong. Life is tough in a lot of countries. 
There are a lot of things, you know, that is really bad. We 
have people really in a life and death situation do believe to 
have such scale of people coming to the border and maybe 
abusing the system, and take advantage of some of these people, 
actually hurts legitimate people?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, that, that is the broken system. I 
mean, we are asking--the system says you have the right to 
express credible fear.
    Ms. Spartz. The system should be checked at the border and 
should be go in the first Port of Entry. So, there is a lot of 
abuses in the system.
    Do you believe that they need to tighten a little bit 
asylum procedures from our standpoint that Border Patrol can do 
a better job, that we don't have to wait for a lot of cases 
when they get through the court system? Do you think it is 
legitimate?
    Mr. Samaniego. I can tell you that the number of times that 
a migrant is vetted is unbelievable.
    Ms. Spartz. They are not vetting for credible fear right 
now because they go around that they just say, I have a 
credible fear. Cartel gives you a piece of paper say what you 
say the right thing to do. They just let you go. Hopefully, 
they give notice to appear. Some of them don't even give them 
anymore because they cannot process it.
    It is becoming a situation where it is becoming no one can 
handle this demand. So, do you believe we need to improve that 
from your perspective? That is, it not enforcement issue, that 
enforcement law needs to be tighter? Is that?
    Mr. Samaniego. Absolutely, it needs to be improved. I think 
you are not giving us a solution. It is not an easy solution 
for us to determine whether it is or it isn't credible fear 
because the law says that if you express it, then we have to 
accept it.
    Ms. Spartz. Well, I think we agree something, the law maybe 
need to be tightened. Because we are really hurting the people.
    Do you believe that cartels making so much money on 
desperate poor people that the message spread they all come to 
the country is really hurt legal immigration, but also it 
really creates a modern-day slavery, because these are 
desperate people. Do you believe that would be characterized 
like that?
    Mr. Samaniego. What I have said over and over again is 
that, if you stop the process, you help the the cartels. When 
the process is moving, it is very difficult for them to do the 
things that they do. When you push them back to Juarez--
    Ms. Spartz. You don't think all this money actually are 
helping them, to empower them and control now all the whole 
border with a lot of money? Have better resources than our 
Border Patrol has. You don't believe it is helping them because 
all these people paid them a lot of money, and from desperate 
countries? They don't make enough money to pay unless they 
became enslaved by these people.
    Mr. Samaniego. I agree. Every time that the process stops, 
that is when they get abused, they get raped, they get--and so 
there are people that can legitimately come into our country, 
if we can help them process and get them quickly moving, less 
likely with the cartels.
    Ms. Spartz. Yes, I think we need to work on that.
    Maybe we can at least find common ground on that.
    What would you say, Sheriff, from just feeling, what really 
needs to be done--and we have two seconds left to really find 
common ground to stop this insanity?
    Mr. Dannels. I will talk fast.
    I actually spoke to Secretary Mayorkas about putting 
judicial oversight at the southern border so they can address 
these asylum claims, these credible fear claims. As we know, 
the high percentage don't qualify under the law to do that.
    Secretary Mayorkas said, ``I 100 percent agree with you, 
Sheriff.'' We have seen no action over the last year to get 
that done. Because we can address it at the border, not within 
our communities.
    Ms. Spartz. Thank you. My time has expired. Thank you.
    Mr. Biggs. I now recognize the gentleman from California, 
Mr. Correa.
    Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    First, Mr. Dunn, I want to convey my condolences at the 
loss of your son Noah. I am a father a four. Every day I pray 
for my children.
    I am, also, a Little League dad. I have seen young children 
go from promising athletes to drug rehab. A terrible situation, 
drug abuse. This scourge on our society does not discriminate. 
Working hard to make sure nobody falls victim to the scourge.
    Sheriff Dannels, I also want to thank you for your good 
work.
    Mr. Dannels. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Correa. I have a brother that served with LAPD for 30 
years.
    Mr. Dannels. Thank you for your service.
    Mr. Correa. He has some interesting stories.
    Mr. Dannels. Yes, I bet you do.
    Mr. Correa. You mentioned human trafficking. You mentioned 
$3,000. Is that the price to smuggle a human being into this 
country?
    Mr. Dannels. No. It is 7,000 and up to be smuggled by the 
criminal cartels.
    So, the drivers that are coming to my county, going to 
three hours north to Phoenix, Maricopa County, it is $3,000 per 
person.
    Mr. Correa. I just got back from Central America. The going 
price now is about $22,000. Most of the women, 80 percent of 
the women by the time they get to El Paso, to our southern 
border, are either raped or sexually abused. I would say that 
there is a lot of desperation, putting yourself at risk, a 
woman preparing herself for that eventuality and paying 
$22,000.
    Mr. Dannels. I would agree.
    Mr. Correa. Like many of us here, I have had the 
opportunity to go to the southern border, El Paso, San Ysidro, 
the Canadian border as well. My job in Homeland Security.
    I only have three minutes left, so I want to talk about the 
San Ysidro border crossing.
    When I usually cross that border, come back to the U.S., I 
identify myself to the border agents. Tell them who I am and 
ask them how is the day's work going? Usually get average 
answers.
    One day agent told me, ``Look behind you. See all those 
cars.''
    I said, yes.
    He says, ``They are essentially filled with Russian and 
Ukrainian undocumented immigrants.''
    I said, ``It is new?''
    He said, ``No. It has been happening for a few months 
now.''
    Well, the Russian-Ukrainian war started, those undocumented 
Ukrainians are now Ukrainian refugees.
    April 2022, less than a year ago, I went back to San 
Ysidro, actually to Tijuana, Mexico, to visit a refugee camp of 
Ukrainians. This is what I found behind me: The Mexican 
Government took a baseball field, turned it into a refugee 
camp. The Mexican police were guarding that camp to make sure 
those refugees were safe. American private and public donations 
poured in. Doctors, nurses, healthcare professionals came in 
from across the country to make sure healthcare needs were 
taken care of.
    This became a processing center for Ukrainian refugee 
camps. Refugees would come in. In 24-48 hours they would board 
a bus, be driven to the pedestrian crossing, pedestrian west 
crossing. Title 42 would be waived. They would get a parole 
status and walk across the border.
    This is an example of how you deal with the refugee crisis, 
right here, ladies and gentlemen. This doesn't look like El 
Paso. This is the way you address the refugee challenge.
    The Biden Administration, thankfully, is now working on 
implementing a similar program, parole program for Cubans, 
Haitians, and Nicaraguans. We still have the Afghanis that 
fought alongside our troops that are still hanging out there 
somewhere. Same thing for Syrians.
    Sheriff Dannels, I ask you this question because it is an 
issue of incentives, folks. Very, very desperate individuals. 
You have got to give them a reason to go through the legal 
process because they are desperate.
    The refugee challenge is not just the United States. It is 
a worldwide issue. The solution isn't just here. Our neighbors, 
Canada and Mexico, have to be part of the solution as well.
    Under existing laws this is the way you do it.
    I am out of time, Mr. Chair. I yield. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
    I recognize the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Cline.
    Mr. Cline. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    I want to thank the witnesses for being here. Mr. Dunn, our 
prayers are with you and your family for the loss of your son.
    This hearing is designed to bring to Washington the 
concerns of the people at the border about this border crisis, 
and seek out its origins, which are clearly down at the other 
end of Pennsylvania Avenue and the White House.
    From day one, this administration has blatantly ignored 
U.S. immigration laws and policies designed to keep America 
safe. After several visits to the border myself, it is clear, 
we need border enforcement now. The open border and amnesty 
policies have made this crisis worse every single day and 
encourages more vulnerable populations to make what is a very 
dangerous journey.
    Americans should be outraged by the Biden Administration's 
failed leadership.
    On January 30th, KFOX 14 in El Paso reported on Border 
Patrol reports in the article entitled, ``Unprecedented number 
of migrants reported in El Paso in the first quarter of 2023.''
    More than 64 percent of the migrants encountered during 
this timeframe were single adults, some attempting to evade 
arrest and not seeking asylum. Unaccompanied children 
encounters increased by 59 percent in the last Fiscal Year of 
2022, the same timeframe, as opposed to 8,000 unaccompanied 
children encounters. El Paso sector reported only 5,000. So, 
that is up.
    The sector led the Nation in the first quarter of the 
Fiscal Year with total migrant encounters across all 20 U.S. 
Border Patrol sectors. Agents apprehended 37 individuals with 
criminal records, rescued 61 migrants, including tender-age 
children, some abandoned in the remote desert, and intercepted 
22 narcotics loads.
    A defense attorney in El Paso, juvenile defense attorney, 
stated, ''Youth are getting more involved with crime.'' Huge 
increases in weapons. He thinks it is just because they are 
getting money to pay for these weapons. How they are earning 
that money is from drugs. I see a lot of kids are helping with 
human smuggling, and that is a big problem.
    Although, Judge, you stated in your testimony there is no 
invasion of migrants in our community, nor are there hordes of 
undocumented immigrants committing crimes against citizens or 
causing havoc in our community, when you see an increase in 
children helping human smuggling, how is that not the case? How 
is it not the case that you, that these policies are 
contributing to the delinquency of minors in your area?
    Mr. Samaniego. Once again, I don't see the correlation of 
things that are going on with our country and sort of saying 
that it is influenced by our immigration or people coming 
through. Like I said, we don't see that. We try our best to 
deal with the circumstances at hand. Then we try our best to 
move people along.
    I have said over and over you guys have the luxury of being 
Democrats and Republicans. We have to be public servants. That 
is all we can do. When they come across, we do not manage who 
comes across, we manage how to process them in the best 
possible way.
    I have said over and over, El Paso really thinks as a 
Nation. I think people think that we are just focused on our 
situation there as a community, but we don't. We are really 
concerned about having New York to deal with that, having 
Chicago deal with that. We have talked to each one of the 
mayors and we are working.
    If we were to put in more of a national system of allowing 
communities to say who needs the migrants, and then helping us 
to process them there. I use the Houston model. It is just 
exceptional. Every single day 52 come in. They go back to 
Houston. They go to the bigger hubs, and we move them through.
    So, that is where we need your help. We need your help to--
not whether what we are doing is right or inaccurate, but the 
fact that it is a community that really shoulders a tremendous 
amount of a broken system.
    Mr. Cline. You say that the transportation of these 
individuals to other cities is necessary to prevent your 
community from descent into chaos, correct?
    Mr. Samaniego. No. That is not true.
    Mr. Cline. You are fine keeping them all in your 
jurisdiction instead of sending them to other locations?
    Mr. Samaniego. We would welcome them. It is a shame that 
they are concerned about being close to the border because of 
how they are going to be treated, and how they are going to be 
deported even if they shouldn't be deported. So, you have got 
migrants wanting to move into the interiors simply because they 
don't feel safe, even if they are here, processed, and legal.
    Once they are processed, they are legal in our community. 
So, once again, I think we are helping the Nation do the right 
thing.
    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired.
    The Chair recognizes the gentlelady Ms. Scanlon.
    Ms. Scanlon. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Colleagues on the other side of the aisle seem to have 
called this hearing to really promote fearmongering or 
disinformation to justify a radical plan that would effectively 
shut down asylum to everyone. The plan is so extreme that the 
Republican colleagues have objected that it is ineffective, 
inhumane, and even un-American.
    What I find particularly pernicious is the attempt to 
conflate the issues of migrants seeking legal asylum through 
our legal processes with the very real scourge of fentanyl 
trafficking which, as CBP data demonstrates, and Judge 
Samaniego has testified, overwhelmingly comes through the ports 
of entry in trucks and cargo ships, not on the backs of 
migrants trying to flee poverty or violence in their home 
countries.
    Falsely suggesting that migrant families seeking asylum are 
the source of the fentanyl epidemic, we can't even start to 
craft policy measures that could actually address either of 
these issues, the fentanyl crisis or the humanitarian issues 
raised by the push factors in South and Central America and our 
immigration laws.
    So, I don't want to waste this opportunity. Since most of 
my experience before coming to Congress has to do with how 
badly broken our immigration laws are, I just wanted to focus 
there.
    How do we handle the increase in asylum seekers at the 
southern border with real fixes, like some of those that Judge 
Samaniego has suggested?
    As I suggested, we do need to address the root causes of 
migration, but we need to have functioning pathways here in 
this country that people can pursue. I have represented enough 
folks seeking asylum to know that there aren't functional 
pathways.
    I think we heard a statistic that only a small percentage 
of people seeking asylum are actually entitled to it. That is 
not true. The statistics vary very widely across the country, 
but in some areas, particularly on the border where there are 
less friendly judges often, the rates are very, very different 
than in other areas across the country.
    So, Judge Samaniego, you are not an Immigration Judge, are 
you? You don't adjudicate asylum claims?
    Mr. Samaniego. We do not.
    Ms. Scanlon. OK. I did want to verify that.
    Now, a couple years ago I had the opportunity to visit the 
border and speak with Customs and Border Patrol, Homeland 
Security agents, and advocates, and did see that there is a 
humane processing process available there. I really appreciate 
that.
    Why do you think that has been so successful over the 
years, particularly when compared with other cities and 
counties along the border?
    Mr. Samaniego. I think one is that we have accepted to be 
humanitarian. When you do not start at that point, then you 
don't create processes, you don't create ways to handle them, 
the NGO's are not working with you, the Border Patrol doesn't 
work with you. So, I think the moment that you make that 
determination that you are going to be humanitarian, it forces 
you to come up with systems to help out.
    There are some, for example, there are things that we could 
do. The Venezuelan population dropped tremendously as soon as 
we--the Border Patrol has an app that you can, now from your 
country, begin to apply. We are talking about vetting the 
credible fear. So, you are able to do a bit of that. The 
numbers dropped tremendously.
    Also, I was able to talk to the Ambassador from the U.S. to 
Mexico. He talked about what do we do at the origin, the point 
of origin, is very important. Because we know that, for 
example, why is Colombia not treating Venezuelans properly, and 
then Venezuelans have to leave their country to come to our 
country?
    So, there is a--it is not just a pull that we have. We have 
a push that we need to look at as well.
    So, I think there is, if we get creative, but once you 
start with the idea that you have to--it is safety. We have to 
make sure that the economy is taken care of. El Paso is one of 
the strongest economies in all of Texas. We were one of the 
strongest. So, while we are dealing with this situation, we 
have to worry about the economy. So, the economy, the safety, 
and being able to do the right things from the humanitarian, I 
think if you start from that premise, things are more solvable.
    If you start from the premise that you don't want them 
here, then what is the solution?
    Ms. Scanlon. I do want to pick up on that because over the 
past few months Texas' Governor has sent dozens of busloads of 
vulnerable migrants to Philadelphia, which I represent, without 
notice or coordination which, of course, has made it more 
difficult for our willing city authorities to welcome those 
folks. When you have two buses dumped on New Year's Eve morning 
before 6:00 a.m., and you have vulnerable people without coats, 
it is very difficult.
    So, I appreciate your insight that cooperation can smooth 
over many of the issues that we are dealing with.
    I see my time has expired. I yield back.
    Mr. Samaniego. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    Mr. Biggs. I recognize the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. 
Tiffany.
    Mr. Tiffany. Judge Samaniego, you said in one of your 
answers earlier that people come here because they are 
passionate. You have advocated for allowing people to come in 
here.
    Do you think that is a reason why we should allow people 
into America on a legal basis because they are passionate to 
come to America?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, no, no. I said, they were here for 
different reasons. They just happen to be passionate as an 
additional component. I mean, they come because they are 
fearing what is happening in their community.
    I touched this when I said earlier when they tell you that 
every day their mom or their dad calls them and says they come 
here looking for you every morning, and they want to know where 
you are at.
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you.
    Mr. Samaniego. That is why they are moving in this 
direction.
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you. I am really glad this issue in 
regard to Governor Abbott moving people to various cities 
around the country has come up. Have you been critical of 
Governor Abbott for what he has done?
    Mr. Samaniego. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because when you 
send someone that is not organized, and they don't know who is 
on that bus, and some of them are not sponsored, that is a huge 
burden on that community.
    Mr. Tiffany. Have you been critical of the Biden 
Administration when they have flown people all over the country 
in the dark of night?
    Mr. Samaniego. I don't know of that taking place. I 
apologize.
    Mr. Tiffany. So, you have not seen, for example, I have an 
article here entitled, ``Biden Administration quietly flies 
illegal immigrants to New York in the middle of night''? We 
just heard from a fellow Member on this panel saying they are 
doing it in Philadelphia also.
    Do you think that is right for the Biden Administration to 
do that?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, I think it is an indication that they 
have to decompress. Because when we get flights that are going 
out to decompress the system there with the Border Patrol, and 
has nothing to do with our community--
    Mr. Samaniego. So, did you give the benefit of the doubt to 
Governor Abbott and say, well, maybe they are decompressing 
these people on their trips to these cities?
    Mr. Tiffany. Well, I--
    Mr. Tiffany. Isn't it the same thing, Judge Samaniego?
    Mr. Samaniego. No, it isn't, because it is not coordinated. 
We have never gotten a call from the Governor to tell us, hey, 
what do you need? How can we help? How can we do things?
    Mr. Tiffany. No. Thank--
    Mr. Samaniego. We just get buses for these people.
    Mr. Tiffany. I really appreciate that. Biden Administration 
quietly flies illegal immigrants to New York in the middle of 
the night. That is what they are doing.
    I will be happy to share this article with you so you can 
see what is happening there.
    Thank you for your answer.
    Sheriff Dannels, I was in your county in June 2020. What 
has changed since June 2020?
    Mr. Dannels. Well, we went from, just to put it in 
perspective, five percent of my jail population was border-
related, up to almost 45 percent now, 45 percent.
    We have seen the pursuits. Last year we put 180 people in 
jail for pursuits that were deadly pursuits. When I say, 
``deadly,'' driving at 100 miles an hour plus, endangering 
communities. Some resulted in deaths. Some we interdicted 
before they killed somebody.
    We see the flow of public safety challenges in our 
community based on this border every day. So, it has changed 
drastically as a result of this border.
    Mr. Tiffany. Because what I heard from your sheriffs is 
that there was good coordination all the way from the local 
level all the way up to the Federal Government in June 2020, 
and that there was some control being--the border was becoming 
more secure.
    Is that generally an accurate statement?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes, Congressman. In fact, Border Patrol, when 
I pull up to a scene to help my deputies or troopers, officers 
or agents, they always make a point to come over and say, 
Sheriff, thank you for what you do. Thanks for being a voice 
for us.
    Mr. Tiffany. We heard earlier that--I can't remember who it 
was that said that the increased fentanyl is not tied to 
illegal border crossings. Do you agree with that statement?
    Mr. Dannels. No.
    Mr. Tiffany. Why not?
    Mr. Tiffany. The criminal cartels are exploiting our 
border, whether they are trafficking children, adults, males, 
females, whether they are human smuggling for profit, or they 
are doing illicit drugs. Either way, the criminal cartels are 
exploiting our border. I keep hearing the word, different words 
about how it is controlled.
    It is not effectively managed right now. Until it is, the 
cartels, they are the winners of this.
    Mr. Tiffany. Those of you on the other side of the aisle, 
you can continue to wear blinders, or you can do photo op trips 
like the President did down to El Paso where they cleaned up 
that region before he comes in, you can do that. The American 
people are seeing very clearly what is going on.
    Now that we are in the majority, we are going to try to 
identify this as much as possible. Because you are hearing the 
truth here from people like the sheriff, from the fentanyl 
families. I hope you are meeting with those fentanyl families 
because it is directly tied to the border.
    I am going to just close with this: I hope as we go through 
this process, we also get more information out in regard to the 
NGO's, the International Organization for Migration, which has 
weaponized immigration into this country all the way from 
Panama up to the southern border. I hope we dig in deep to 
those NGO's that are complicit--
    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Tiffany. --in the greatest human trafficking operation 
perhaps in the history of the world.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Biggs. I recognize, the Chair recognizes the gentlelady 
from Pennsylvania. Is that right, Ms. Dean?
    Ms. Dean. Yes.
    Mr. Biggs. All right. Ms. Dean.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you to all our testifiers for being here today. We 
benefit from your experience, and your service, and your 
knowledge, and your heartbreaking family experience.
    Before I ran for Congress, I was a professor. For 10 years 
I taught at LaSalle University in Philadelphia, teaching 
writing, 7rhetoric, and ethics. That is why I can't help 
noticing words so often used by my Republican colleagues when 
we are talking about both of these tragic issues: Words like 
hordes, invasion, crisis, and open border.
    It is purposeful. They want the American people to be 
scared. They want us to feel threatened. They want to create 
divisions because othering people makes it far easier to 
mistreat them.
    The reality is there is no invasion. There are no hordes of 
invaders. Our borders are not being overrun by dangerous 
criminals. We do have a broken immigration system.
    At the same time, we are struggling with an extraordinary, 
deadly drug problem in our country.
    Mr. Dunn and Ms. Dunn, Ms. Janel, my extraordinary 
heartfelt sympathy to you on the loss of dear Noah, poisoned by 
fentanyl, as you have written here in your testimony. My family 
knows a little bit about drugs and poisoning from a different 
perspective; my son is a recovering addict. It is by the grace 
of God that he did not come into deadly fentanyl that would 
have taken his life.
    We must be able to talk about these things honestly, and 
not conflate them, as my colleague just said. There is a 
difference between the facts and the rhetoric, between wanting 
to solve these problems or just trying to make people afraid of 
them.
    The fact is 90 percent of fentanyl, heroin, and meth seized 
in this country is captured at ports of entry. Just about 
everybody who I have spoken to has said this. This means the 
drugs are being brought in through normal channels, not on the 
backs of families crossing at remote parts of the country. The 
vast majority I am talking about. I am sure it is not 100 
percent.
    In fact, CBP reports that drug cartels are now recruiting 
Americans to bring fentanyl into this country, not undocumented 
immigrants. We have a horrific problem. Like your dear Noah, we 
are losing more than 100,000 people a year to overdose, more 
than 70 percent of those fentanyl.
    I wear this band for the son, a 24-year-old son who died of 
an overdose, fentanyl poisoning. Sadly, it is not one anymore. 
This band represents at least a half a dozen in my community 
whose children have lost their lives.
    Let's get serious about it. Let's stop demonizing the 
immigrant who comes and asks for help.
    Judge Samaniego, I understand, and I have been to El Paso 
to the Port of Entry, it is the second busiest border crossing 
in the United States. You interact with a large number of these 
people who are--and they are people seeking safety and humane 
treatment. Can you just give a couple snippets of why they are 
coming across?
    Mr. Samaniego. I said earlier, a large number that you hear 
is that they were in their country, they were abused, they 
tried to defend themselves, so they get targeted. That is one 
big category, where they are just trying to do the right thing 
in their own country, but their own country rejects them, and 
then they target them. That is a big part of it.
    A lot of it, like I said, is just it is not--the economy 
plays a second part of it. Obviously, the economy is worse, but 
that is not a reason to come to our country, because of the 
economy. They are really driven by the fact that they can no 
longer live in their communities.
    Ms. Dean. We know that we have seen these numbers for a 
large number of years, not just under the Biden Administration. 
I think in your testimony you wrote at least the last four 
years you have had increased numbers.
    Mr. Samaniego. Absolutely.
    Ms. Dean. Can you speak to what you also said in your 
testimony which is this, what I am so concerned about, which is 
the false racist narrative that is being promoted here today, 
and is promoted day after day here in Congress?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, if anybody is concerned with that, it 
is us. I mean, we, that narrative was picked up by a shooter 
that you had the Walmart situation. We hear that and it 
concerns us as a community.
    When you say racism, and invasion, and all this, it makes 
our community extremely nervous because then we might get 
targeted for being that community, and for being humanitarian.
    So, I do ask for these words to be settled in a different 
way. You don't need to say invasion and all these things that 
are happening across the border. We are a community that works 
really hard. We are very privileged with what we have. It is 
just very concerning when we hear this because we don't know if 
we are going to be targeted because of these comments.
    Ms. Dean. I know my time is up. I thank all three of you 
for your service.
    Mr. Dunn, I thank you for your wish to our children.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Biggs. The gentlelady's time has expired.
    The Chair recognizes the gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Van 
Drew.
    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Chair.
    First, Mr. Dunn, as everybody else has said, and I know we 
have been repetitive, but it really is heartfelt, we feel for 
you.
    As somebody, I am a grandfather, I am getting older, and a 
father. I can't imagine. I cannot imagine. I will tell you, I 
mean this sincerely that I will pray for you and for your 
family.
    I don't know, sometimes I think the world is upside-down. 
The more that time goes on, especially recently, it seems 
upside-down to me. So, I have to talk about a few of the things 
that I heard my colleagues on the other side say that, for 
example, this hearing was a show.
    The hearing is not a show. To determine how to effectively 
fix something you have to study it, you have to learn about it, 
and you have to hear about it. That is what this hearing is 
about. It is not a show.
    It is also not anti-immigration. None of these Republicans, 
and I know, I am sure, none of the Democrats are anti-
immigration. We are anti-illegal immigration. There is a 
difference. There is the rule of law.
    I don't know where we have lost that. That is what I mean 
by the world being upside-down. The rule of law, that you 
follow laws, and things happen in a certain way.
    The other secret here that people sometimes don't want to 
talk about is no country that is ultimately successful for a 
long period of time has wide open borders. Yes, there can be 
border problems. America has had border problems. Many 
countries have had border problems. Nevertheless, you can't say 
that you can just have completely open borders.
    If that is true, let's just open our country completely to 
every single country in the world and say we have no borders, 
and as many people want to come here can come here, whether 
they are sick or not, whether they have other issues or not, 
whether drugs are coming in or not. Yes, drugs are coming in 
because the cartels are helping these people to get across and 
using them. Human trafficking is happening. Human abuse is 
happening. I am sorry, Judge, but it is.
    If you talk to people down there, I know the people you 
don't talk to don't see it and hear it, but the people that I 
do--and we are going to go again real soon--do see it and hear 
it. It is true. It is real.
    I kind of empathize with the sheriff, Sheriff Dannels, when 
he spoke about Secretary Mayorkas because I have had the 
opportunity to ask him questions a number of times when I was 
on the Homeland Security Committee, and the guy doesn't tell 
the truth. Nobody wants to say that openly, but I will: The guy 
is a liar. He does not tell the truth.
    When he tells you he is going to look at something, he 
doesn't. When he tells you he is going to do something, he 
doesn't.
    When you show him a video of terrible things happening, 
once it was a video of a young officer actually saving 
somebody's life that was drowning, and they found out that it 
was a drug dealer whose life he saved--by the way, the officer 
died--that is the truth.
    The truth is we have a problem. The truth is that we need 
borders that are effective, and we need borders that are 
sealed. The truth is it is Biden's. I will be the partisan one 
here, it is Biden's problem, because in two years it has 
radically changed.
    When President Trump put together a strong array of 
immigration policies at stemming the flow of illegal immigrant 
crossings, there was so much of a reduction. It was so much 
safer. It was getting better. It was working.
    You know what? Legal immigrants don't like the illegal 
immigration. They don't want to be mixed into that. His very 
first day in office President Biden decimated this process. He 
ignored the experts. He ignored the expert advice of those 
serving at the borders. He turned his back on the millions of 
Americans that live in border communities. Does anybody care 
about all these people that are being overrun? We are all going 
to care soon because we are all going to be overrun.
    That is not being--that is not hyperbole. It is not 
extreme. They are being shipped all over the country.
    He ended the construction of the wall and he refused to 
deport any illegal immigrants during the first 100 days, so he 
terminated the declaration of a national emergency at the 
southern border, all in one single day. Did we put out a 
message that we wanted illegal immigration? Absolutely.
    You know all the things that have happened since and how 
many got-aways have got away.
    I wanted to ask something of the sheriff. Because I don't 
have time, I would love to talk on this longer.
    Kamala Harris was appointed the Border Czar. That means she 
should know this border in and out and in every way, along with 
Mayorkas. Has she? Have you had a lot of interaction with her?
    I am done talking, but can he answer that at least?
    Mr. Biggs. Yes. The gentleman's time has expired.
    You may answer that question.
    Mr. Dannels. No.
    Mr. Van Drew. No.
    I hope everybody heard that. That is the answer. That is 
the truth.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. The gentleman's time has expired.
    The Chair recognizes the gentlelady from Texas, Ms. 
Escobar.
    Ms. Escobar. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    I would like to also join my colleagues, Mr. Dunn, in 
expressing my heartfelt sympathies and condolences for the loss 
of your son.
    Sheriff Dannels, thank you for your service to your 
community and to our country.
    Mr. Dannels. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    Ms. Escobar. Again, Judge Samaniego, I am so grateful for 
your compassionate and strategic leadership and your 
partnership with the Federal Government. We appreciate your 
testimony here as well.
    For anyone who really, truly wants to understand what is 
happening at the border and to depoliticize this, we have got 
to take a step back and acknowledge that what we have been 
seeing is an historic refugee crisis impacting our Western 
Hemisphere. It started in 2014 as we began seeing record 
numbers of unaccompanied minors. It has continued through the 
years.
    When folks credit Donald Trump for limiting migration, I 
want you to look at what the data shows, which is the only time 
we saw a drop during the Trump Administration was in the weeks 
after the country and the world shut down because of COVID. The 
apprehensions began increasing again before the November 
general election in 2020.
    So, let's operate in truth and fact or we won't be able to 
achieve any solutions together.
    I will tell you there is no one who wants a safe, secure, 
well-managed border than those of us who live and work on the 
border, than those of us who raise our children on the border, 
those of us who have pledged our service to the border.
    So, to my Republican colleagues, I will work with anyone 
who wants to achieve what I hope we all want to achieve. So, 
how do we do that? How do we solve this challenge?
    I will tell you how we don't do it. We don't keep doing 
more and more of the same. The definition of doing the same 
thing over and over again and expecting a different result is 
insanity.
    What have we been doing for decades in America? We have 
been addressing immigration as a border only issue. That is an 
expensive failure.
    So, how do we solve this?
    No. 1, Congress needs to open-up legal pathways. We haven't 
done that in decades. For many of these migrants there is no 
line for them to get into, there is no right way for them to 
use except for asylum, which is legal.
    We should also recognize that our country needs immigrants. 
I don't know about you all, but every CEO I talk to says we 
need a labor force. I have had CEOs from different parts of the 
country tell us, can we have some of those asylum seekers in 
our community, because we can't get anybody to go to work?
    So, we need to recognize how advantageous immigration is 
for America.
    We also need to modernize our processing and include a 
Federal civilian workforce so that, Judge, you don't have to 
step in and fill in where the Federal Government has failed.
    Most importantly, we can depoliticize this work and work 
for real solutions.
    So, if we want to end the scourge of fentanyl, I sure wish 
my Republican colleagues would have voted for the bipartisan 
Infrastructure Law which funds technology at our ports.
    If you want to help defeat the cartels, fund the 
President's budget as he applies historic resources to do this.
    If you want to erode the power of the cartels, advocate to 
end Title 42.
    If you want to secure the border, I sure wish you would 
have voted for historic funding for the Department of Homeland 
Security in December.
    Every member of the Republican party, every colleague 
actually on this panel who is a Republican voted against that 
funding. In fact, in December President Biden asked for $5 
billion for the Department of Homeland Security. Republicans 
cut that in half and then voted against it.
    Judge, in that funding was money for communities like ours, 
for governments like yours that help partner with us. If the 
Republicans would have had their way, and if that funding 
wouldn't have made it to you to help, who or what agency would 
have been hurt the most?
    Mr. Samaniego. Oh, my goodness. Just the fact of not having 
the funding, obviously everybody gets hurt because now NGO's 
have to step in without any money. Everything gets shifted away 
from what they need to do.
    I can tell you, FEMA helping us really took a--that was 
such an incredible opportunity for us to be able to shelter, to 
process, to do the things that we wanted to do in a very 
organized manner.
    Ms. Escobar. When you can't help, what agency has to pick 
up the burden, what Federal Law Enforcement Agency?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, the Border Patrol.
    Ms. Escobar. That is right.
    Mr. Samaniego. Border Patrol. They, that is why we have 
such a great relationship, because they know that if we weren't 
doing our job with the community, they would have to have--they 
have 1,200, they have 1,200 beds available. Sometimes they have 
as much as 5,500.
    When we help them, the flow comes through, they are feeling 
good about it, and we take all that pressure away from the 
Federal Government.
    Ms. Escobar. Thank you, Judge.
    My time has expired. I yield back.
    Mr. Biggs. Before we go to our next interlocutor, I guess 
do any of you need a five or 10 minute break? Do you? OK.
    So, we are going to recess for 10 minutes, or the sound of 
the gavel.
    We are in recess.
    [Recess.]
    Chair Jordan. [Presiding.] The Committee will come to 
order. The gentleman from Oregon, Mr. Bentz, is recognized.
    Mr. Bentz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let me just start with 
Sheriff Dannels. Sheriff, I am interested in knowing about how 
you would view a system that did not allow asylum claims.
    If we decide to secure the border completely and cut asylum 
claims and cutoff parole claims, that doesn't mean necessarily 
that the border is going to be secure. There are still going to 
be issues because the border is a long space and folks will be 
coming across it. The reason I bring up this reference to 
asylum and parole is because when Secretary Mayorkas appeared 
before us, he assured us that the border was secure and that 
the law was being enforced.
    Of course, he neglected to point out that literally tens of 
thousands of people were being allowed in under the guise of 
both of those perfectly legal devices. So, two questions to 
you. First, I was looking at your suggestions on what we needed 
to do to perhaps secure the border.
    So, the first question is, which one is the most important 
if we are actually going to do it? The second one in the same 
vein is, can we do it? Do you think that we can actually secure 
the border?
    If so, tell us how much money it is going to take. I saw 
your list. I have no idea what the cost would be. Can we 
actually secure the border?
    Mr. Dannels. I do believe, Congressman, that we can secure 
the border to a manageable State. We've seen it done before. 
I've seen it almost four decades of law enforcement where we 
have a manageable border.
    It'll never be perfect. I've seen that. I don't ever see 
perfection on the border. What I do see is having the right 
programs which starts with the President of the United States.
    I know it was mentioned before, different Presidents, 
different ideologies. The bottom line is when we have a 
President that, (a) prioritizes all our borders, not just our 
southern border, and then (b) we enforce the rule of law. We 
can always polish the rule of law. We have to enforce the rule 
of law.
    Mr. Bentz. Stop there. That takes me nicely to asylum and 
parole. Those are the laws. Are you suggesting we do away with 
those and say, the border is now closed? We don't want anybody 
coming across. Is that what you are suggesting? Because I can't 
let you get away with abolish the rule of law without talking 
about asylum and parole.
    Mr. Dannels. Congressman, when I say--I always put border 
security first and then immigration second because we can talk 
immigration all day. If the border is not secure, we're going 
to be fighting ourselves like we are in this meeting today. So, 
when I talk about asylum, I believe in asylum.
    You got to do it legally. You got to go through a Port of 
Entry as designated by our rule of law. You can't come across 
our border illegally and then have no consequences.
    I've been a cop for 38 years. I've been in the military. I 
support the rule of law. I'm never going to change from that. 
I've done that for so long. So, we've got to have rules that 
we're going to follow, not that we make them subjective to what 
political ideology fits. We have to have a rule that fits. 
That's why I say we have to enforce the rule of law or we 
change it to make it fit current times.
    Mr. Bentz. Correct. With mass migration, that is a real 
challenge. Mr. Dunn, I am really, really sorry for your loss. I 
had some of the staff ask you during break if there was a way 
of testing for fentanyl so that children, such as your son, 
could have some means where they could check to see if that 
which they are taking has been contaminated with fentanyl.
    I understand that there may be a way to do it. It is 
designated as drug paraphernalia and thus not available. Tell 
us what the future is when it comes to trying to warn kids who 
are taking these kinds of things of the danger.
    Mr. Dunn. There are fentanyl test strips that are 
available. Right now, they are classified as drug 
paraphernalia. Excuse me.
    One of the things that we're working on along with other 
families that we talk with in Texas and as well as multiple of 
our democratic State representations, our current 
representative is a Democrat is to have these removed from that 
classification. Governor Abbott has already stated that he will 
sign any legislation that decriminalizes fentanyl test strips. 
They just have to get that legislation out there, so it can be 
enacted.
    Mr. Bentz. So, why would anybody object?
    Mr. Dunn. They won't. Everybody that we've talked to is on 
board with it. It's just our session in Texas doesn't meet as 
frequently. So, they have to--we've been told it is one of the 
priorities.
    I believe there's several different bills out there. So, I 
think it's finally just getting everybody on board and getting 
it done is what we're waiting on. I think our session just 
convened a few weeks ago. That is one of the top priorities 
from the representatives that we've spoken to.
    Mr. Bentz. Yes, thank you for being here. I yield back.
    Mr. Dunn. Thank you.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back. The gentlelady 
from North Carolina is recognized.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chair. First, Mr. Dunn and to your 
wife, I am just so profoundly sorry for your loss. I have met 
with the families of focus who have lost loved ones to 
fentanyl.
    It is a problem in my home State of North Carolina. I think 
it is quadrupled the problem. So, I am 100 percent with you in 
finding a way to stop this drug from coming into our country 
and spreading throughout the country. So please, please know 
that.
    I am just somewhat saddened by this hearing because we have 
had the opportunity to work on bipartisan immigration reform, 
both immigration reform that deals with the safety and security 
of our border and that addresses the needs of our workforce. I 
represent North Carolina. So, we have a huge agriculture 
industry that is dependent on migrant farm workers.
    We also have a lot of people in our State who come to work 
in high tech companies and in biopharma. They are having 
difficulty with their visas and extending their stays. It 
really is incumbent on all of us to work together to solve this 
problem.
    We are seeing some glimmers of hope on the Senate side. My 
great fear that we are going to have one-sided hearings on the 
House side that don't bring people together to be able to both 
solve the situation at the border which is both a humanitarian 
and a safety issue and make sure that we have the workforce 
that we need. As I said, in my State of North Carolina, that 
workforce comes from all corners of the world, but has 
insecurity about whether or not they are going to be able to 
stay and whether or not their children are going to be able to 
stay.
    So, it is my hope that the majority on this Committee 
really wants to do that hard work. I know that Congresswoman 
Lofgren is not here right now. The work that she did on farm 
worker modernization was bipartisan and important and helped 
with border issues and helped with making sure we had enough 
farm workers.
    I worked last session in a bipartisan way to help the 
documented Dreamers. These are young people who come here 
legally with their parents on a visa. Because our immigration 
system is so broken; they have to self-deport at age 21.
    We have bipartisan sponsors on the House and Senate side. 
It got through the House. We are really, really hoping to work 
on that.
    So, it is in that spirit that I would both ask my 
colleagues to work on this issue and I will be asking some 
questions of our witnesses. My first question is for our judge. 
Please tell me how to appropriately pronounce your name.
    Mr. Samaniego. It's sort of easy. It's Samaniego.
    Ms. Ross. Samaniego. So, as I have said, immigration has 
become such a partisan issue. What I would like to know from 
you, what are things that work where you think we can get some 
bipartisan support at the border?
    Mr. Samaniego. I'm glad you're saying that, Congresswoman, 
because we gain a lot of traction and things seem to be moving 
in the right direction. Then when politics enters, it sort of 
distracts us from doing what we need to do. I think you would 
think at this point that necessity would give us the way toward 
getting job creations and we hear a lot about that.
    I ask two questions from every migrant, every person I 
meet.

    (1)  How long have you been traveling just to get them to 
sympathize with what's happening with them?

    (2)  What is it that you did in your country?

    ,I can tell you plumbers, teachers, bricklayers, and 
agriculture. Everyone has--there's no one that has said, I'm 
just a laborer or I'm just a--they've worked in farms. They've 
worked in doing things that we need.
    So, if you connect the two that we have a tremendous need, 
I know just in El Paso, right there on the border, we have 
maybe 20 percent, that we could use 20 percent, especially in 
the service industries, in the entertainment industries. They 
have all that talent and the abilities. I think the first thing 
is instead of trying to eat the elephant in one sitting that we 
start saying, what are some of the small things that we could 
do?
    I believe from just my experience that job creation and 
connecting the immigration situation to jobs. We've already 
lived through the bracero situation that we need it, and we 
used it properly. It was very successful.
    So, I think the first thing is that I hear is they're ready 
to work. If we could connect it with our needs here in our 
country.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you so much, and I yield back.
    Mr. Samaniego. Thank you.
    Chair Jordan. The gentlelady yields back. Judge why wasn't 
it fixed last year?
    Mr. Samaniego. Pardon me?
    Chair Jordan. Why wasn't it fixed last year? The gentlelady 
talked about working in a bipartisan fashion to fix this 
problem. Why wasn't it fixed last year?
    Mr. Samaniego. Why wasn't it fixed last year?
    Chair Jordan. You talked about the concerns and how we have 
to work together to fix--I am just wondering, why wasn't it 
fixed last year? Because they didn't need bipartisan support 
last year. Last Congress, they controlled everything in the 
Federal Government. If it is a Federal Government solution, why 
didn't they fix it?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, one of the things that we're doing 
today, and I appreciate that is we're having a dialog. Those 
dialogs can lead to--
    Chair Jordan. I am all for dialog. I am all for working 
together. Now, it is all bipartisan. First, they say there is 
no problem at the border. The border is secure.
    Then they come in here and say, oh, no, no. We got to work 
in a bipartisan way to fix it now that we are in control of the 
House of Representatives. All I am saying is last Congress, 
they controlled everything.
    Joe Biden is a Democrat in the White House. The Senate was 
controlled by the Democrats and the House was controlled by the 
Democrats. Why didn't they fix it then?
    Mr. Samaniego. I think that falls more in your corner than 
mine.
    Chair Jordan. My corner?
    Mr. Samaniego. Yes, because--
    Chair Jordan. The minority last Congress?
    Mr. Samaniego. All we do is maintain the flow and try to do 
the best we can with a broken system. We have nothing to do 
with fixing a system. So, this--
    Chair Jordan. You understand how the U.S. Government works, 
right? You get a majority in the House and majority in the 
Senate. They pass something that goes to the President. He 
signs it. They could have done that last Congress. They didn't.
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, what a great--
    Chair Jordan. Why not?
    Mr. Samaniego. --opportunity for you to be different.
    Chair Jordan. Great opportunity. That is why we are having 
the hearing. They criticize us on the hearing. They said, why 
are we starting this Congress off with this hearing?
    They can't have it every way. They can't blame Republicans 
when they were in control. You come here and you can say, oh, 
no, now it is time for bipartisanship. We welcome that.
    If we really want to address the problem, the problem that 
caused Mr. and Ms. Dunn to lose their son, the problem that 
Sheriff has talked to us about that has been so, so 
dramatically changed in the last couple of years. That is what 
we want to address. I yield the remainder of my time to the 
gentleman from Texas, Mr. Roy.
    Mr. Roy. I thank the Chair for his remarks. I am just going 
to followup, Judge with the question of the--well, you and I 
came to an agreement about the numbers of 55,000 roughly that 
had been encountered in December in the El Paso sector, some 
200 and I can't remember the exact number. I am sorry, a 
145,000 or 50,000 encountered over the fiscal year, the three-
months. How many of those encountered have been turned away 
under Title 42?
    Mr. Samaniego. Have been what?
    Mr. Roy. How many of those have been turned away under 
Title 42 with respect to the--
    Mr. Samaniego. I'm not sure of the number. I think from the 
border patrol, they're looking at about 35 percent.
    Mr. Roy. Yes, that tracks with the numbers that I 
understand, right? So, you are talking out of the 55,000, you 
would have 18,000-20,000 that would have been turned away under 
Title 42. You have about 50,000 of those 150,000 that would 
have been turned away under Title 42.
    Yet, we know that there was a situation in El Paso with the 
difficulty of dealing with the processing and the numbers. Now, 
we have got bussing going on across the country. What happens 
if Title 42 is no longer being enforced?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, I think you're doing the right thing 
because as you know it was a public health mandate. It had 
nothing to do with migration. If you want to figure out and get 
to the problem, that was very confusing because it had to do 
with something totally different that is now being utilized.
    To me, I think the reason we would lift it is because we 
can continue the process and do it properly. You're not going 
to have all these other individuals that are trying to cross 
illegally because that's their only way to get here. Because as 
I said over and over that there's a lot of them that have been 
stuck in middle that they came thinking that Title 42 is going 
to be lifted. When it wasn't lifted, then they fell into this 
desperation. I believe and I've said over and over that if we--
    Mr. Roy. Judge, I am running out of time. I am sorry. I 
don't want to--we just have limits on time.
    Mr. Samaniego. Go ahead.
    Mr. Roy. I would say to you that what you just described is 
all in the context of border security. It is all in the context 
of who comes in and who doesn't, right, which is what border 
security is. So, there have been some who have been critical of 
saying that we should enforce our existing laws with respect to 
asylum laws, asylum laws which require detention.
    That is what our current laws require, detention while you 
make a determination, right, a determination of credible fear 
for persecution under our asylum laws which is a smaller number 
than the number of people who are coming that would qualify. 
So, we are saying we should detain to make those 
determinations. The connection to Title 42 is really important 
because the current administration is even in all its bluster 
about Title 42 still defending the law in court because they 
know what happens when Title 42 goes away.
    What you just described is really important for the 
American people to understand. You just described it in the 
context of border security, not the context of COVID and a 
pandemic because it is being used as a border security Band-
Aid. What we must do as a body is embrace policy changes to 
ensure we can effectuate management of the flow while 
respecting our laws with respect to asylum which is precisely 
what House Republicans are putting forward, notwithstanding the 
allegations of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. I 
am over my time. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from 
Maryland, Mr. Ivey.
    Mr. Ivey. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank all you for 
coming to testify today, Mr. Dunn and your family, in 
particular. I want to commend you actually. You have turned a 
tragedy in your family into action to making a difference in 
your community and your State. I was especially appreciative of 
your comments about the effort to legalize testing for 
fentanyl, I guess, in Texas, in this Texas State legislature.
    Mr. Dunn. Correct.
    Mr. Ivey. OK. Well, I think it is important for people like 
you to continue that kind of work, bring that activism into the 
public arena, because I think you have voices that are 
immensely important. It is certainly an impact in my community 
just the past week or two. In fact, Congressman Trone and I 
were having to deal with a situation, a family that straddles 
our two districts in Montgomery and Prince Georges County is 
having issues with fentanyl.
    I have seen recently there have been high school deaths and 
overdoses with respect to fentanyl. So, it is clearly a major 
problem. I am supportive of your efforts to try and address it.
    I was a prosecutor beginning back in 1990. So, it wasn't 
fentanyl then. It was crack cocaine. When I became an elected 
prosecutor in Prince Georges, we still had cocaine. There was 
PCP. There were all sorts of drugs like that, some of it coming 
across the border like cocaine, some of it like PCP not.
    I think it is clear that this is an issue that we need to 
do more to address. That is kind of why I was disappointed with 
H.R. 29. It is a bill as I reviewed it that was supposedly the 
Republican leadership effort on addressing these kinds of 
issues.
    I just took a look at the bill, and it didn't really do 
anything with respect to addressing many of the problems you 
discussed today such as the need for additional resources. To 
get rid of the backlog, I think judges and courts and the like 
to address some of those issues. I think Congressman Swalwell 
asked about whether 20,000 additional border agents would be 
helpful.
    There are no additional resources that are provided under 
this legislation. Their legislation raised some additional 
issues too that I wanted to raise. We got a letter from the 
U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops which they submitted to the 
Congress in response to their reading of H.R. 29.
    Their position was they asked for Members to vote against 
it.

        We urge you to vote against H.R. 29, as well as any subsequent 
        legislative proposals that would unjustly deprive vulnerable 
        peoples the legal right to seek humanitarian protection in the 
        United States.

I know we have had a little discussion about whether this bill 
impacts humanitarian rights.
    Clearly the Catholic bishops had concerns about it. This 
bishop wrote this.

          Most concerning is that the bill effectively expands the 
        policy that's of Title 42 without any exceptions for those with 
        bona fide asylum claims, unaccompanied children, victims of 
        torture, victims of trafficking.
          Protecting these populations delineate, and they lay out some 
        of the statutes that are in place currently. Moving forward 
        with this piece of legislation would exacerbate the harm faced 
        by vulnerable persons while also failing to meaningfully 
        address the root causes of migration and the unsustainable 
        conditions at our southwest border. Not only will the 
        challenges we face persist, people will suffer.
          We must remain true to our laws and our Nations proud 
        tradition of offering safety and opportunity to those who have 
        lost everything besides hope for a better future.

They end with this.

          The Bishops Committee called on us to reject the contemporary 
        forces of division that tempt us with a false choice between 
        our security and our humanity. Our great Nation is capable of 
        safeguarding both our humanity and our security.

    Judge, let me ask you, what sorts of resources and support 
do you think would be helpful in addressing this crisis that we 
are having at the border? I think you testified a little bit 
about the Governor and the absence of support at the State 
level. I wondered if you would elaborate on that.
    Mr. Samaniego. Yes. I mean, they have resources, and they 
should be understanding what we need. Texas, for some reason, 
people forget. They think we're maybe part of New Mexico 
because we're so far away from the capital.
    So we need to be able to have those discussions on 
sheltering, on processing. Like I said, we could go up to as 
much as 1,200 a day processing. All of these are individuals 
that have sponsors and they're able to move quickly, that same 
day. That helps us to be able to address all the other concerns 
that we have of the other 60 percent. I want to, real quickly, 
if you don't mind, just to comment on the Congressman from 
Texas.
    Mr. Ivey. My time is expired. So, perhaps we should wait 
until the next round.
    Chair Jordan. You can get that on the next round. The Chair 
now recognizes the gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. Massie.
    Mr. Massie. I yield my time to Mr. Fitzgerald from 
Wisconsin.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. I thank Mr. Massie for the time. Sheriff, 
one of the things I try to focus on in the hearings that we 
have had on the border is the corridors that exist throughout 
the United States because I am always perplexed when you hear 
people talk about, well, it is an issue at the border, but it 
is not an issue in Wisconsin or South Dakota or North Dakota. 
That is not the case, right? The other thing I would say is 
strip clubs, head shops, truck stops, all these types of 
locations is kind of where this stuff is transported, right?
    We started to see that probably 10 years ago, maybe even 
longer, and how it is being distributed. So, I was wondering if 
you could comment on that because the one thing we have with 
fentanyl is we still have issues related to it not being a 
Schedule 1 drug. That is something this Congress should do as 
well. I wonder if you can comment on that.
    Mr. Dannels. I can. There's been a shift over the last 
couple years on smuggling. I'll answer. There are two thoughts 
on this.
    First, since there's less border patrol on the border now 
and they're more into processing, they're very thin. So, the 
migrants that are being smuggled, they get them up to the 
closest asphalt, the closet highway. Cars pull in, grab them. 
They're gone.
    So, the old corridors like you're talking about that was 
very common, they're not as used like they used to. They don't 
have to because they don't have to get that deep into our 
counties. The other aspect of what you're talking about, the 
trafficking aspect of it where they're trafficking kids and 
adults, females and males, the trafficking aspect, the 
nonconsensual part of it is, yes, they're taking them to stash 
houses.
    They're making them servant, within truck stops, for 
example, within strip clubs and places like that. Just a little 
side note on that, and the question has been asked to me. One 
of the things we've done on the many innovative thoughts is we 
have a program through our nonprofit where we're going after 
the cartels that are trafficking these people.
    We're going after them not just in my county. Working with 
sheriffs in Dallas, Texas, Sacramento, California, and 
throughout urban areas where we know they're being taken to and 
exploited. So, we're doing that program. Again, that's a 
multimillion-dollar program that we're putting forward.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you very much. I appreciate the 
comments, and I would yield back to Mr. Massie.
    Mr. Dannels. Thank you, Congressman.
    Mr. Massie. Thank you. I yield my time to Mr. Roy from 
Texas.
    Mr. Roy. I thank the gentleman from Kentucky. Kayla 
Hamilton, 20 years old, Aberdeen, Maryland, she was recently 
brutally murdered by an MS-13 gang member who was allowed into 
the United States as a UAC last year who is 17 years old. There 
is a 24-year-old Honduran immigrant was charged with murder and 
the brutal stabbing death of a Florida man after crossing the 
U.S. border illegally while posing as a UAC.
    He was found covered in blood after allegedly killing a 
father of four who had taken the immigrant in because the 
immigrant had posed as a UAC. It is not always as simple as 
some of my colleagues say. Some of my colleagues on the other 
side of the aisle have been spending some time today misleading 
the American people, telling untruths about legislation that I 
have put forward, H.R. 29, and in so doing, using words like 
unchristian.
    The legislation to be clear to all is legislation that 
reiterates existing law. It makes very clear that under 
existing law we are supposed to detain when we have somebody 
who is seeking asylum. It maintains our asylum laws in full and 
requires that we detain.
    To be clear and for everybody to listen, I want to follow 
with Mr. Dannels for your view on this. My colleagues on the 
other side of the aisle are universally saying to the American 
people and to all they represent, to every single American 
citizen they are saying that they believe we should release 
against current law, that we should release into the United 
States using parole, which is supposed to be on a case-by-case 
basis. Release into the United States under parole where 
notices to appear without having full intention of someone 
making an asylum claim.
    They are making false accusations about a law saying that 
we should follow the law and detain. So, my question for you, 
Sheriff, with your knowledge of the law is, if we were going to 
follow the law, would that not slow down the numbers, funnel in 
those who can make a legitimate asylum claim so that they can 
then be detained for an adjudication of that claim, so they can 
still claim asylum and Americans would be safer and migrants 
would be safer? Could the sheriff respond to that?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes, Congressman. The answer to that is yes. 
That's our approach. National sheriffs, western sheriffs, 
southwest border, I addressed that with Secretary Mayorkas in a 
room about enhanced judicial oversight when it comes to how we 
address them at the border.
    Right now, there is no consequence. I mean, they know if 
they come here, they claim those couple words, they're in the 
country. They'll come back within the year for their first 
hearing and then--
    Mr. Roy. So, that is key. They know that they will get 
released.
    Mr. Dannels. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. Therefore, that is the problem at the border. I 
yield back.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the gentleman for yielding. The 
gentleman from Texas, Mr. Gooden, is recognized.
    Mr. Gooden. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Judge Samaniego, I was 
listening to your testimony earlier. In your opening statement, 
you said there is no open border in Texas.
    Yet, it seems that you have spent the last several years 
processing as you said, migrants that have come across. So, I 
don't know how you can say there is no open border. You 
mentioned several times, in fact, that you are processing 
illegal immigrants.
    I would like for you to elaborate what you mean by 
processing, because a little over a month ago, about 1,500 
migrants crossed the Rio Grande in a single night. A report 
suggested because there weren't enough beds, more than 600 of 
these were released--these migrants were released into the 
streets. Is that an example of processing?
    Mr. Samaniego. The example of processing is the border 
patrol lets us know about those that have been sponsored. They 
vet them at that point. This is where we work really closely 
with them.
    Mr. Gooden. So, you are saying if they have a sponsor they 
are allowed into the country?
    Mr. Samaniego. No.
    Mr. Gooden. That is the requirement?
    Mr. Samaniego. No, that facilitates the fact that they're 
allowed into our country. Then when they're processed, they 
become legal. At that point, the fact that they have a sponsor 
allows us to work with the legal--the persons that are legal. 
We never try to process illegal at any point at any time. 
There's no consideration for that.
    Mr. Gooden. One of the things you mentioned were these 
NGO's. Catholic Charities was brought up. Are you aware if 
taxpayer dollars are being spent on those? You talked about bus 
tickets and shelter. I have been to the border personally and 
seen Catholic Charities put migrants in hotels and send them to 
the airport and purchase flights. Where is that money coming 
from?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, most of it is--in El Paso, most of 
them are donations from the public. They get donations. We have 
Annunciation House.
    Mr. Gooden. So, you don't believe there is any taxpayer 
dollars being spent on that?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, let me give an example. One of the 
leading individuals at houses and shelters and moves them 
forward is Annunciation House. They will not take one cent from 
Federal money. They do not want Federal money because they just 
feel like they've be trapped into that.
    Mr. Gooden. Well, the information that I have from our 
government is that we have spent quite a bit on that. I hope 
this Committee will determine just exactly how much. I would 
also implore you to revise some of your wording.
    You have called several of us racist because of--yes, in 
your opening testimony. You said, ``There is no invasion of 
migrants in our country. Saying as such continues a false 
racist narrative.''
    Then you went so far as to try to link these words to a 
horrible crime that was committed in your city. I would advise 
you to watch your words and be careful when you are talking 
about people like Mr. Dunn who are voicing a very serious 
issue. Migrants are absolutely invading this country.
    I applaud this bill. I am very disappointed in the 
testimony I heard from my colleague in Maryland, citing the 
Catholic Bishops. I believe the Catholic Bishops have endorsed 
this Catholic charity's ruse to encourage more migration.
    They have encouraged and facilitated child trafficking and 
a lot of the violence that we have seen. Our borders are 
absolutely open. I will yield the balance of my time to Mr. Roy 
from Texas.
    Mr. Roy. I yield back to--
    Chair Jordan. Mr. Goodwin, would you yield?
    Mr. Gooden. I will yield to the Chair.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the gentleman for yielding. Sheriff:

    (1)  On day one, President Biden terminated the national 
emergency declaration on the southwest border.

    (2)  On day one, he halted construction of the border wall.

    (3)  On day one, he revoked President Trump's immigration 
enforcement priorities.

    (4)  On day one, he paused deportations.

    (5)  He moved to terminate the asylum cooperative 
agreements with Northern Triangle countries.

    (6)  He suspended enrollments in the Remain in Mexico 
program.

    Did any of those things factor into the conditions you 
described in your opening statement and this influx of people 
coming to our border? Did any of those six things that 
President Biden did on day one contribute to the situation we 
now find ourselves in?
    Mr. Dannels. Mr. Chair, it did. That's all of it.
    Chair Jordan. Every single one?
    Mr. Dannels. Every one of them changed. We went from what I 
consider probably in my 38-year career almost manageable 
borders. That was also shared--
    Chair Jordan. So, I want to be clear what you said, 
Sheriff. The most manageable border we had in your 38 years in 
law enforcement was two years ago?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes, it was.
    Chair Jordan. OK. Then on day one, President Biden 
terminated the national emergency declaration of the southwest 
border. That is contributed to the problem we now have, right?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes, sir.
    Chair Jordan. He halted construction on the wall. Has that 
contributed to the problem we now have?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes, my border is frozen in time in my county.
    Chair Jordan. Yes, and he revoked President Trump's 
immigration enforcement priorities. Has that contributed to the 
problem we see now?
    Mr. Dannels. It has.
    Chair Jordan. Including the fentanyl getting to communities 
and harming people like Mr. Dunn's son?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes.
    Chair Jordan. Not harming, taking his life. He paused 
deportations. Is that hurting? That is what Mr. Roy was just 
talking about.
    Mr. Dannels. It's all a collective message that the border 
is open.
    Chair Jordan. Terminated the asylum cooperative agreements 
and suspended enrollments in the Remain in Mexico program, that 
is contributing to the situation we now have?
    Mr. Dannels. Yes.
    Chair Jordan. All right. So, this idea that if we just give 
more agents, build more wall, put in the roads, more drones, 
more border security which I am all for, that is not going to 
solve it until you go back to these policies. Is that right?
    Mr. Dannels. That is correct. Mr. Chair, if I could add one 
more thing is before President Biden took office, myself and 
several other sheriffs on behalf of National Sheriffs met with 
President Biden's transition team and went over all the current 
plans on the border to include what was working. I was told by 
his transition team, Sheriff, we appreciate all you're doing. 
They were very optimistic that things were doing well on the 
border. They took over. That all changed.
    Chair Jordan. Now, that is important what you just said. I 
know I am over time, and I will go the gentleman from Colorado. 
What you just said is important because you basically told the 
Biden Administration, do this and we will have a secure border, 
the most secure in your 38 years of experience in law 
enforcement. They said basically thanks but no thanks. Is that 
right?
    Mr. Dannels. They actually were very complimentary. I was 
shocked on day one--
    Chair Jordan. Even worse.
    Mr. Dannels. Yes, I was shocked. They were very, thank you, 
Sheriff, for everything you're doing. Day one when I saw that, 
I was disappointed and shocked.
    Chair Jordan. I yield to the gentleman from Colorado, Mr. 
Neguse.
    Mr. Neguse. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. A couple 
things, first, I want to say congratulations to the Chair on 
his ascension to the Chairship of the Committee. I missed the 
organizing this morning, and so I want to make sure--
    Chair Jordan. We missed you.
    Mr. Neguse. Well, I appreciate that. I will be here for all 
the future meetings. I also want to say thank you to the acting 
Ranking Member, my colleague from Texas, Ms. Escobar, for her 
leadership during, of course, a very difficult time for the 
country and for her community in El Paso. We are all grateful 
for her service to the country, the caucus, and to her 
community that I visited and that I look forward to visiting 
again.
    To the witnesses, I want to say thank you, Judge, for your 
testimony and for your service. Of course, Sheriff, thank you 
for your service and the service of your many deputies and all 
the law enforcement who are engaged in herculean efforts in 
protecting our communities.
    Mr. Dunn, I want to tell you that our hearts and our 
thoughts and our prayers are with you. My wife and I are 
expecting our second child later this year, a son. It breaks my 
heart to hear your story and very much want you to know that I 
think across both sides of the aisle here everyone expresses 
our deepest condolences to you and to your family.
    Sheriff, I just want to dig in a little bit on your 
testimony. I reviewed the written testimony that was submitted 
by all the witnesses. A lot of--you had written testimony, but 
then also a memo that was essentially an appendix to your 
testimony.
    I reviewed that appendix. You suggest a lot of proposals of 
ideas of programs that I gather you believe would help us 
ameliorate the emergency and what is happening on our southern 
border. In digging through some of these, just for example, you 
list enhanced funding for regional communication 
interoperability with local law enforcement.
    I think that is something that all Members of Congress 
would support, Democrats, Republicans. That is a commonsense 
step that we ought to be funding. You list here continued 
funding and support for the Stonegarden program.
    I don't know if you can talk a little bit about what the 
Stonegarden program is. I am certainly aware of it. Some of my 
colleagues might not me. I know my colleagues from Texas are. 
If you care to talk a little bit about that program, the DHS 
program that you would like to have seen continued support for.
    Mr. Dannels. It's one of the only programs, Congressman, 
where Stonegarden actually brings partnership between CBP and 
sheriffs and local law enforcement to include our State law 
enforcement. It's a program that sheriffs nationally and beyond 
have supported. It pays our overtime to include EREs, employee 
related expenses, to work side by side with border patrol. It's 
a great program.
    Mr. Neguse. Here is why I bring that up. The Stonegarden 
program has been in existence for quite some time.
    Mr. Dannels. Yes.
    Mr. Neguse. Back during the Administration of President 
Obama, it was at about 50 million dollars given the fiscal 
year. Right now, we are funding it at 90 million dollars for 
the Fiscal Year 2023 budget the President has submitted. That 
is the exact same number that former President Trump submitted 
during the course of his Presidency.
    I guess why I offer that is because to me these aren't 
partisan proposals that at the end of the day are focused on 
blaming one side or the other. This is an example of something 
that President Biden has continued to do to support. I presume 
you support that, that he is--
    Mr. Dannels. I do.
    Mr. Neguse. --continued funding for the Stonegarden. 
Similarly, you put here one of the items in terms of a proposal 
that you would like to implement is to hire more immigration 
and asylum hearing officers for all POEs or port of entries I 
presume that acronym. I am sure you are already aware of this 
that on January 5th--so a few weeks ago, the President 
announced that there would be an increase of officers at the 
border to help process migrants. That is in addition to the 
25,000 officers. Obviously, we are waiting in terms of the 
President's budget to get the exact number. I think that is 
something you support as well, I presume, in terms of adding 
more officers?
    Mr. Dannels. I do. I do.
    Mr. Neguse. I reason why I am asking those questions again, 
just to kind of land here at the end, is that from my 
perspective and from my constituent's perspectives in Northern 
Colorado and Western Colorado, they are focused on solutions, 
trying to solve the problem. You have outlined a couple of 
solutions here. I would love to be able to have a thoughtful 
conversation with my colleagues on the other side of the aisle 
about these different prescriptive proposals and get to a place 
where we can find consensus.
    Unfortunately, at least as I have gathered from the parts 
of the hearing that I have heard, it is a lot of heat from some 
of my colleagues unfortunately about blame and sort of 
characterizing the problem instead of solving the problem. So, 
I am hoping that we can get to that. With that, I would like to 
yield my remaining time to the Ranking Member.
    Ms. Escobar. Thank you, Mr. Neguse. Two quick points: 
First, the folks that are being processed by CBP who are 
seeking asylum, I want to remind my colleagues seeking asylum 
is legal. So, once they have been processed, they are legally 
in the country. Second, Mr. Roy stated that we called his bill 
unchristian. We did not. We are quoting his colleague from 
Texas in the Republican conference, Mr. Tony Gonzalez. His is 
the one who called Mr. Roy's bill unchristian.
    Finally, I would like to ask my colleagues not to slander 
the U.S. Conference of Bishops, Catholic Charities, and the 
Catholic Church as one of our Republican colleagues did just 
moments ago. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman from Texas is recognized, Mr. 
Nehls.
    Mr. Nehls. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank the 
witnesses for being here. It is no secret. Quite honestly, it 
is self-evident.
    We are facing the worst border crisis in the history of our 
great country. It is self-induced. It is a self-induced crisis. 
It falls at the feet of Joe Biden and his borders, Kamala 
Harris who have expressed very little interest in addressing 
our border crisis, evidenced by their unwillingness to place 
the American people first.
    I would like to address Sheriff Dannels. Thank you for 
almost your four decades of service in law enforcement. 
Sheriff, in your written testimony, you highlight tragedies in 
your country related to illegal immigration. I am a former 
Sheriff in Texas, Bend County. I feel your pain. Sheriff, I 
feel your pain.
    Mr. Dannels. Thank you.
    Mr. Nehls. I also experienced the loss of life of innocent 
county residents, Americans at the hands of Joe Biden's 
irresponsible border policies. It is very clear the individuals 
from around the globe that have been invited into our country 
by this administration do not have America's best interest at 
heart. I say this because they are willing to kill.
    Sheriff, you shared a personal tragedy in your written 
testimony of a citizen. It was Wanda, I believe. She was 65 
years old attending her birthday party trying to go and 
celebrate her 65th birthday. Rammed by a car, high speed chase, 
ran a red light, and it killed her.
    The smuggler had three illegal aliens inside that vehicle. 
It ended her life. Then I understand that shortly thereafter 
her son ended up driving upon the scene. I can't imagine. I 
can't imagine how he felt, what he felt when he saw that car 
with his mother inside that vehicle.
    Stories like this are often too common. They are common 
today. I want to show you this here. This is me here. This guy, 
this guy, his name is Mr. Zavala.
    He ran over and killed Ms. Booth. Her last name is Booth, 
81 years old. Ran her over, fled the scene, and took off. We 
apprehend him.
    Our sheriff's office apprehended him a couple hours later. 
We start booking him into the county jail. We run him. This 
knucklehead has been deported six previous times, six.
    I think the American people are going to want to say, how 
does a guy get deported more than once? Has been deported six 
previous times. These are just a few stories that Sheriff 
Dannels and I, we are sick of telling these stories.
    We are sick of having to have families come into our 
offices and explain that their loved ones were killed by people 
that should be here in the first place. I would like to turn my 
attention to Judge Samaniego's testimony. Judge, your written 
testimony claims your center has assisted 26,829 asylum 
seekers, and I think it opened up on October 10, 2022, correct?
    Mr. Samaniego. That's correct.
    Mr. Nehls. So, about four months, 26,000. Fair enough. Data 
has shown that between the years of 2008-2019 just 14 percent 
of aliens who claim credible fear were granted asylum. So, that 
means 86 percent don't.
    So, 14 percent of 26,829 is 3,756. Would you agree with 
that number? OK. Congratulations. Your center has assisted over 
23,000 illegals that have been scattered throughout the 
country, coming into Houston, buses, right, bus every day, 
scattered throughout the entire country.
    There are 23,000 of those that will never be able to have a 
legitimate asylum claim because only 14 percent of them do. 
Sir, that puts the American people at risk. It puts the 
American people last.
    You stated there is no invasion of migrants in our 
community, nor are there hordes of undocumented immigrants 
committing crimes against citizens or causing havoc in your 
community. I will say this. El Paso PD, February 25, 2022, 
violent crimes on the rise in El Paso.
    The sergeant said we have seen a 27 percent increase in 
offenses involving weapons, stabbings, and everything. Here is 
another one. El Paso cops arrest two migrants and overwhelm 
border city. That is your city, sir.
    People selling dope, doing all sorts of stuff. Illegals, 
Venezuelan running around in stolen police cars. Cops are 
having to chase them.
    Here two days ago we have here in the city of Houston the 
enforcement removal operations. Had to remove a guy that was in 
Houston illegally. He goes out and commits an armed robbery in 
the city of Houston, right?
    We arrest him. Thank goodness we arrested him. We find out 
he has a murder warrant out of Mexico. So, we have some 
problems here, sir. I would like to ask you this question. Do 
you believe that these illegal migrants are coming into our 
communities harming the American citizens? Thank you. Your 
answer is yes.
    Mr. Samaniego. Not the percentages you mentioned.
    Mr. Nehls. You may know that Houston is right next to my 
district. I will say this. My eyes are wide open. The American 
people's eyes are wide open. I would ask you to open yours. I 
yield back.
    Mr. Moore. [Presiding.] Chair recognizes Ms. Bush.
    Ms. Bush. Thank you. To Mr. Dunn, my condolences. Very, 
very sorry for your tremendous loss. To Judge Samaniego, thank 
you very much for your testimony and for listening, enduring, 
and for giving your testimony.
    St. Louis and I are here to recognize the humanity of all 
people regardless of immigration status. We are here in 
opposition to any racist agenda pursued by Republicans. Let's 
take a moment to reflect on the is first month of Republican 
control of the House.
    The disastrous and embarrassing Speaker's vote that 
resulted in the selling of the gavel to a bunch of pro-coup 
Members of Congress, the seating of insurrectionists and 
someone who defrauded his way into Congress. That is where we 
are. Now, this hearing whose purpose it seems it to amplify the 
anti-immigrant hysteria and right-wing conspiracy theories.
    The Republican position on immigration is to inflict as 
much cruelty as possible on people fleeing suffering and 
persecution. As Democrats, we need to recognize this reality 
and refuse to be a part of it. That is why I strongly oppose 
the administration's expansion of Title 42 and the 
reinstatement of the asylum transit ban. These lawless and 
inhumane policies deny the right to asylum while failing to 
address any of the underlying structural problems of our 
immigration system. So, Judge Samaniego, I want to ask you, do 
you believe Title 42 is an effective or a humane immigration 
policy?
    Mr. Samaniego. It is not. I thank you for being practical, 
because I need to get back to this idea of detaining them until 
they're able to vet them. That's one of the most impractical 
things I've ever heard of.
    Right now, Border Patrol is shivering thinking, how are we 
going to do that? Without the community being involved, we're 
pushing that on them where they have 1,400 spaces. We're going 
to detain them?
    We talk about the humanity of the Border Patrol. Just think 
about what it would take to detain until we vet them. It'd be 
impossible.
    I remember growing up and we'd say, how do you put 50 
people in a Volkswagen? Twenty-five in the front and 25 in the 
back. That's about as impractical as this idea of detaining 
them until you can let them go when you don't the facility. You 
don't have the manpower.
    It's those impractical solutions that confuse people. So, I 
tell you that we've been able to manage things. We know that 
when there's issues in other parts of the border is because of 
the lack of organization.
    It's the lack of collaboration. It's a lack of a lot of 
different things. When you have people running in to your 
country because you're not well organized and you're not using 
collaboration.
    We've had two or three incidents. We have 800 people out 
that we're not able to manage because of funding. There are 
communities that have had as many as 10,000 because they're not 
organized properly.
    So, I can tell you our strategy works. If people listen to 
it and we were able to share the ideas in how we've been 
successful, I can tell you that we minimize the problem, 
incredibly minimize the problem for the Federal Government. 
There should be some kind of appreciation for a community that 
is sensible about what's happening in El Paso.
    We all know that we don't want it to happen to the rest of 
the Nation. All we hear is that I used the wrong word or that I 
said racist. I never said that.
    What I said is that using those narratives creates more 
racism in a community. I didn't say anything about the people 
involved in it. So, I thank you for looking at practical 
reasons. I'm appalled when somebody has an idea like detaining 
them as a solution when that's the most impractical thing you 
could probably do. Thank you.
    Ms. Bush. Thank you. Thank you for your work and thank you 
for explaining that. As Democrats, we must refuse to adopt 
illegal and ineffective solutions to this complex, longstanding 
crisis. We must be better than what we are seeing coming from 
Republicans.
    Republicans want to talk about Biden's border crisis. The 
reality is we have a broken immigration system because 
Republicans want us to. So, they can hold these hearings to 
mask the fact that they have no affirmative agenda that 
actually helps people.
    So, they can spew their lies about immigrants bringing 
fentanyl across the border while exploiting victims and 
refusing to support advancements in public health and addiction 
treatment. So, they can take out their anger and insecurities 
on the most vulnerable. History will not look kindly on those 
politicians. Thank you, and I yield.
    Mr. Moore. Chair recognizes Mr. Hunt from Texas.
    Mr. Hunt. Thanks, Mr. Chair. I really appreciate it. Mr. 
Dunn, thank you, sir, for being here. My condolences to you and 
your family from the bottom of my heart. I am very sorry, and I 
hope we can do something to fix this issue of fentanyl in our 
country.
    Mr. Dannels, sir, thank you very much for your continued 
service from the bottom of my heart. Thank you very much, sir. 
Judge, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for taking 
the time out of your very busy schedule to be here. I greatly 
appreciate everybody on this panel today.
    We have heard a lot of talk today about the five million 
people--illegal people that have entered this country. That is 
a fact. There is just absolutely no getting around that.
    Five million people have entered our country illegally. 
That is the equivalent to seven congressional districts. Enough 
Fentanyl has poured into country to kill every American five 
times. I will say that again, to kill every American five 
times. Sir, your son is one of those Americans. This is a fact.
    I am from Houston. Houston is known for a lot of things. We 
are known for the world champion Astros. We are also known as 
being the human trafficking capital of the entire world.
    That is not anything I am proud of. This is all happening 
at our southern border as we live and breath every single day. 
Sir, Judge, I am not criticizing what you are saying, and I 
have listened to you. I can hear your heart and understand 
where you are coming from.
    You did say that there is no invasion here. I am somebody 
that likes to look at the definition of things before we 
actually can have this conversation. For the definition of an 
invasion is an incursion by a large number of people or things 
into a place or sphere of activity.
    I will say it again. An incursion by a large number of 
people, and I would say five million people constitutes a large 
number, or things, and I would say enough fentanyl poured into 
our country to kill an American five times is a thing. I would 
consider that to be the direct definition of the word invasion.
    My colleague, Mr. Gooden, talked about race and using the 
word racism and racist. I have been Black for a long time, sir. 
So, I get it. I have been a minority in this country for a very 
long time.
    This is actually not about race. This is actually an issue 
of public safety. If I call this an invasion, sir, I am not 
racist. I can assure you I am not racist.
    What I can assure you is that I want to make sure that 
fentanyl doesn't indiscriminately kill any race, religion, 
color, or creed because fentanyl doesn't care where you are 
from. Fentanyl doesn't care about race. Fentanyl kills 
indiscriminately.
    This gentleman right here works his tail off every single 
day to stop that from happening. Now, there has been a break in 
the dam and that is pretty obvious because a couple of years 
ago, of course, we have got some problems. It wasn't amplified 
to the level that we are seeing every single day.
    The reason why we have to be careful with what we call and 
what we deem racist moving forward in the future is because we 
start to lose focus on what the actual problem is. This 
administration of the Democrat party unfortunately uses race as 
a scapegoat for everything. As somebody that wants to make sure 
that we do attack racist issues when they do occur, we can't be 
the boy who cried wolf and blamed racism all the time.
    I am here to hold this administration accountable to 
understand that there are issues of race that need to be 
addressed. Sir, this ain't one of them. I applaud some of your 
actions in El Paso. It sounds like you are doing some great 
things.
    I am going to tell you being born and raised in Texas, 
living in Houston, we have a problem. This problem has 
precipitated over the course of the past two years. That is a 
fact.
    I get working together. I get reaching across the aisle. 
This morning, I can't believe that we had a one-hour debate 
over whether or not we should say the Pledge of Allegiance 
before we convene every day, one hour.
    That, to me, is antithetical to the point of this meeting 
today. I implore you all to be careful with using race because 
your son is no longer here and I am sorry. There are 100,000 
sons and daughters that are no longer here because of fentanyl 
last year.
    This debate is very important and very spirited. I implore 
this entire Committee to take a strong look at what is happened 
over the course of the past few years and to derive substantive 
solutions to this problem so that our youth can continue to 
have a future for these country. It ain't about race. We are 
all in this together. I yield back, Chair. Thank you.
    Mr. Moore. The Chair will recognize himself for five 
minutes. Let me first say thanks to all the witnesses. We 
appreciate you being here.
    Mr. Dunn, you and Ms. Janel, I am reminded of Romans 8:28. 
It says, I know the plans I have for you, the plans to prosper 
and not do you harm. More importantly, all things work together 
for those who are called according to your purpose.
    Ms. Janel was telling me how you are using this to share to 
young people across the country. That is a service to our great 
Nation, and we are grateful. Thank you for being here.
    With that, Sheriff Dannels, I want to cut away to you here 
for a little bit. I went to the border, been a couple times 
down there. One of the things that I took away, and we talked a 
lot of statistics.
    A lot of the things we have seen, the record five million 
which is basically my State's entire population of Alabama. We 
had that many encounters on the border. The one thing that kind 
of struck me the most and it was what I begin to talk about and 
find out that there was a price that these people were paying 
to come across the U.S. border. So, will you explain to me 
exactly who is controlling the U.S. southern border and who is 
getting paid?
    Mr. Dannels. Congressman, it's a simple answer and that is 
the criminal transaction organization that's called the 
cartels. They control the south of our national border, south 
of it's all controlled. They control guns across.
    There are prices based on who you are. Are you a terrorist 
coming from a different country? India was 21,000 dollars, for 
example. The minimum is, like, around 7,000 dollars right now.
    Most of these people don't have it. So, when they come 
across the country, though they might go through a processing 
as Hon. Judge has talked about. They're servant to the cartels 
at the end which is usually for sex trade, gangs, drugs, labor, 
you name it. I have seen no win-win in this, because we don't 
have a manageable process right now.
    Mr. Moore. So, Sheriff, one of the things I heard was 
initially, of course, with inflation in our country, the rate 
we are spending money, everything is going up. When I was out 
there, it was about 4,000 dollars for anybody just south of the 
U.S. border. Then the Triangle countries further south, it was 
seven to eight thousand.
    We had a price at that time 20,000 dollars for Syrian 
refugees. Just recently, I think August Pfluger testified or 
told us that we had two Chinese nationalists captured on the 
U.S. southern border, paid 80,000 dollars each to come in our 
country illegally. So, my question is, what happens to that 
individual that says we want to come to America, we want to 
come to the great land of prosperity, and they don't have the 
money?
    Say they cut a 7,000-dollar deal with--whatever you call 
them cartel. Say they cut that deal, and they agreed to pay 
7,000 dollars. From there, what happens?
    Do they come in the country? Do they have to have the money 
prepaid? Are they indentured servants? I think the term slave I 
heard earlier today.
    Mr. Dannels. It truly is modern day slavery. I mean, the 
lessons of life and history should be playing out today. These 
people that don't--they go through processing. There is no 
doubt about it. They are well watched by these cartels that are 
on the U.S. side.
    When they are released into a family member, a known family 
member, whoever, the bottom line is they are also receiving it 
by the cartels. We know that. We hear it. We see it. The 
American dream that you are talking about, Congressman, what we 
talk about, what people in this room are talking about, in 
those circumstances never met between they are a servant to 
these criminal cartels for bad, bad things.
    Mr. Moore. Sir, one scenario I heard, and you maybe can 
help me with this too. I heard that if they want to cut a deal 
and didn't necessarily want to be indentured servants and make 
installment payments, they could, in fact, back pay it, heroin, 
cocaine, or fentanyl across the border as their payment. Is 
that the case?
    Mr. Dannels. It's all part of the drug labor. They're going 
to do what the cartels do. A lot of the people make the comment 
when they're here in the United States, they're protected. They 
also have family in Mexico that they hold hostage. That keeps 
them doing what they do here. So, they have the strings on 
family in Mexico. We hear that all the time.
    Mr. Moore. Got you. One other thing I want to touch on 
really quick. When I was out at Fort Bliss, I went to the 
emergency intake center. That was for unaccompanied minors 
coming to the United States.
    So, I decided just--I didn't take the tour through the 
facility. I decided to kind of stay outside. Sheriff, I was 
keeping an eye on things.
    I actually started videoing buses with young people being 
shipped all over the country. They seized my phone onsite. They 
did not want any record of people being shipped, young 
unaccompanied minors, to Google addresses in the United States.
    So, I asked the admiral onsite. I said, sir, can you tell 
me where are we shipping these children to? His response to me, 
well, we are just building the bus as we drive.
    They had never seen the influx of youth that we are seeing 
coming here unaccompanied. They were building a bus as they 
drive. Here is the thing, guys. Here is the thing.
    Young unaccompanied minors, they were not doing background 
checks on who we are shipping them to. So, we are shipping 
these children to Google addresses instead of back home to 
their country. Who knows what happens to those minors in this 
country. So, with that, my time has come to an end. Who do I 
need to recognize? Mr. Kiley, you are recognized for five 
minutes.
    Mr. Kiley. Mr. Dunn, I want to thank you again after going 
through the unthinkable, every parent's worst nightmare for 
your courage to speak out and do everything you can to stop 
other families from having to go through the same thing. The 
reality is that far too many families in this country have 
found themselves in the same unthinkable position.
    I have worked with a number of them in my own district, one 
of whom is the Didier family. Laura and Chris Didier lost their 
son, Zach, two days after Christmas in 2020. He was a 17-year-
old senior at Whitney High School, an Eagle Scout, soccer 
player, star of the high school musical, no history of drug 
use.
    I have had the chance to get to know Laura and her husband, 
Chris, Zach's parents, over the course of the last couple years 
as they, like you, have worked to raise awareness about the 
dangers of fentanyl. As part of her work, Laura is actually 
here in Washington, DC, today meeting with lawmakers and is now 
here with us in the room. Laura, I don't know if you want to 
just briefly stand up so everyone can see your button there. It 
says Zach here.
    Laura will also be my guest next week at the State of the 
Union. Thank you for everything that you are doing. Thank you, 
Mr. Dunn again as well.
    There is bipartisan support in this country among Americans 
for securing the border. There should be bipartisan support in 
this Committee and in this Congress for supporting the border. 
I have been rather discouraged by what I have heard at today's 
hearing.
    Now, there have been some thoughtful comments on both sides 
of the dais. Frankly, on one side of the dais, there has been a 
lot of excuses. We have heard that there may be other sources 
of the fentanyl in this country.
    Does that mean we should ignore the overwhelming nexus with 
the vulnerabilities at our border? We have heard that what we 
really need is comprehensive immigration reform. That is a 
question separate and apart from securing the border which is 
about enforcing the laws that we already have.
    We have heard that illegal immigration has been a problem 
for the last 50 years. Well, the two biggest years in terms of 
number of illegal border crossing by far have been the last two 
years, 2022 fiscal year, 2021 fiscal year. The month with the 
highest number of illegal border crossings is not some random 
month in the last 50 years in the 1970's or the 1980's. It was 
last month, December 2022.
    The problem keeps getting worse. What strikes me is the 
lack of compassion from this administration and those making 
excuses for it. Compassion for the communities and families 
being ravaged by fentanyl. Compassion for those who are victims 
of the horror of human trafficking.
    Compassion for the migrants themselves who are now dying in 
record numbers. During Fiscal Year 2022, a record number 856 
died attempting to cross the southwest border. That is three 
times as many as just in 2020.
    Another facet of this problem is the issue of sanctuary 
jurisdictions which we are seeing increasingly across the 
country where jurisdictions actively interfere with Federal 
immigration enforcement. My own State of California in 2017, 
the super majority legislature and Governor declared California 
a sanctuary State, forbidding local law enforcement from 
communicating with ICE regarding the whereabouts of wanted 
criminals. These are folks who are not just immigrants, not 
just undocumented immigrants, but who have committed crimes 
while they are here.
    From the very beginning, it was predicted this would raise 
serious problems. The State's sheriff's Association wrote,

        Before this was adopted, our overarching concern remains that 
        limiting local law enforcement's ability to communicate and 
        cooperate with Federal law enforcement officers endangers 
        public safety.

    They said it would preclude staff in our jails from 
notifying ICE at the request of the pending release of certain 
wanted undocumented criminals.
    We have seen time and time again this prediction bear 
itself out in tragic ways. Just last year in California, there 
was one of the most horrific crimes I have ever seen. You had a 
man who murdered his own three daughters and their chaperone at 
a church just a few miles from the State capitol.
    It turns out this individual was in the country illegally 
and had been in police custody just the week before because he 
had assaulted a police officer. ICE had asked to be notified of 
his release. The sheriff's office said we can't tell you 
because of the sanctuary State law. So, Sheriff Dannels, I just 
wanted to give you a moment if you had any thoughts on the ways 
that sanctuary policies are contributing to these problems.
    Mr. Dannels. Well, Congressman, thank you for your 
comments. Thank you because that's something sheriffs around 
the country are talking about. This is where that partnership 
with our Federal partners, State and local, have to work 
together. That collective recipe of success as I stated in my 
opening statement is true to how we protect our communities. 
Thank you for saying that.
    Chair Jordan. [Presiding.] Thanks, gentlemen. Sheriff, I 
know you got to catch a plane.
    Mr. Dannels. Yes.
    Chair Jordan. We are going to go--if you can, I think it is 
a five plane you got. We are going to go really quick with our 
last three here, and then we will get you out of here just 
ASAP. The gentlelady from Wyoming is recognized.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you so much. Border security is national 
security. The failure of the Biden Administration to secure our 
southern border and uphold our Nation's laws has created a 
situation where the effects of the border crisis are felt 
nationwide. The number of people crossing the southern border 
last year dwarfs the number of people who live in the State of 
Wyoming.
    Since Biden took office, over ten times the Wyoming 
population has crossed the southern border illegally. 
Statistics from the Wyoming Department of Criminal 
Investigations show a significant increase in fentanyl seizures 
within the State. In 2022, the Wyoming Department of Health put 
out a notice titled Fentanyl Burden Growing in Wyoming as the 
number of synthetic opioids involved overdose deaths more than 
quadrupled between 2018-2021.
    This situation is simply unsustainable, and it is 
untenable. Sheriff, you have stated that you have seen the 
good, the bad, and the ugly being a border county and working 
in a border county. Can you highlight for the Committee where 
we were in 2013, 2018, and 2022 going into 2023 and how they 
might fall on that scale?
    Mr. Dannels. Well, besides my collective statements I have 
made during this hearing, I would like to hit on many of the 
aggravated attacks toward law enforcement. That has not been 
addressed today. I've always seen border issues in my 38-year 
career.
    What I'm seeing now is something that I've never seen where 
almost every other car runs from us. They try to assault us. 
This is a fight and flight syndrome.
    That's why we don't get the give-ups. To give you an 
example, I'll give you a story. I've got a deputy right now on 
administrative leave where he made a traffic stop at 10:00 at 
night on a vehicle. The driver got out. Fentanyl was thrown all 
over the highway. The driver was noncompliant. Border patrol 
came in behind my deputy to assist him because we work so close 
with them.
    It turned into a physical altercation based on his 
noncompliance. There were three illegal migrants in the back 
seat that ran during this, added more confusion to the case for 
my deputy. As they got into the altercation to secure the 
driver, they fell into the roadway. Just as they get him cuffed 
up, the deputy looks up, within half a second, sees a car 
barreling at him. Actually, hits the suspect driver. Take him 
right from the deputy's hand, kills him, the deputy, and the 
car keeps going. We suspect it was another smuggler driver. 
That's an opinion. The deputy performed life saving measures on 
the individual. Medics got there, took over that.
    As the deputy went back to the car to check the truck, 
which is standard, that's just what we do. Open the truck. A 
male migrant was being smuggled illegally actually attached my 
deputy a second time.
    Ms. Hageman. Goodness gracious.
    Mr. Dannels. When it got to the scene moments later, the 
deputy made a comment to me. He goes, Sheriff, I don't know how 
to prepare for this. I go, I don't know how you do it either.
    The bottom line is this is a day in Cochise County with 
assaults. We had an agent that was attacked on a trail south of 
my area toward the border. They tried to take his gun from him.
    One round was fired. They actually took a knife, tried to 
cut the agent's throat. He fought him off for seven minutes 
before my deputy got there.
    The assaults were seen on--I've had deputies' drug by 
cartel drivers. I've seen them assault for no reasons and 
threats. I had the cartels across the line actually come 
across.
    We had a couple different sources. They're coming to my 
county to kill one of my deputies, a random hit. So, I could 
talk all day on this, and I know you only got five minutes.
    Ms. Hageman. Well, Sheriff, giving us that report and that 
information is incredibly important. We all hold all the folks 
down there in our prayers.
    Mr. Dannels. Thank you, ma'am.
    Ms. Hageman. One aspect that is important to remember is 
that President Biden has not only halted the enforcement of the 
Nation's laws at the border but he openly showcased his action 
to the world which only further encourages this security and 
humanitarian crisis. In contrast, the Trump Administration not 
only enforced our humane immigration laws, but also made 
enforcement known to the world. The reality is that Joe Biden 
has enabled the largest human and drug trafficking operation in 
U.S. history.
    The tragedy of that is, as Milton Friedman saw, you can 
have either an open border or you can have a welfare State. 
That is just an economic reality. You can't have both.
    It is the poorest U.S. citizens who suffer the most when 
the government refuses to enforce our immigration laws and 
secure our border with overextended services, lack of 
affordable housing, and suppression of wages. This tragedy is 
not only manmade. It is government mandated which is a tragedy 
and a legacy of this administration that must be fixed. Thank 
you.
    Mr. Dannels. Thank you, Congressman.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the gentlelady. The gentleman from 
Texas, recognize--Sheriff Dannels, when you have to go, you 
just tell me.
    Mr. Dannels. We're pushing time here.
    Chair Jordan. OK.
    Mr. Dannels. Maybe one more.
    Chair Jordan. All right. One more.
    Mr. Dannels. He knows my pain.
    Chair Jordan. Yes.
    Mr. Moran. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Judge Samaniego, I want to 
address my comments to you and some questions to you as well. 
Until my election to Congress in November 2022, I actually was 
a Texas county judge as well, serving for six years in East 
Texas in Smith County.
    So, I am very familiar with the limitations of your job and 
the demands of your job, both in terms of manpower and 
financial resources to meet the needs of your local country 
just like I had to do for six years in Smith County. One of the 
things, though, that I can say is even in East Texas, we 
recognize that there is a real need to support border security 
and that there is a crisis on the border. So, I am surprised by 
your comments here today that would indicate that there is 
nothing wrong and nothing going on, on the border out there.
    I have been out to the El Paso sector as well. So, I know 
firsthand that is simply not the case. During my tenure as a 
county judge, we worked even in East Texas to fight against the 
cartels doing things like setting up a financial crimes unit 
that was a statewide unit that is now leading the way against 
financial crimes that the cartel is using for human trafficking 
to underwrite their human trafficking and the drug trafficking.
    We also in conjunction with our neighboring counties and 
several State, local, and Federal law enforcement agencies set 
up a TAG unit, a Texas Anti-Gang unit. You guys probably have 
one in El Paso County as well. hat works against the cartels.
    So, I really am shocked here today that you would really 
dismiss the concerns of the right side of the aisle and say 
there is simply not a problem and not a crisis at all. I want 
to also address the fact that Judge Carruthers is not here 
today because being the Terrell County judge, she is a good 
friend of mine. As county judges, we had lots of conversations 
about what was going on in Terrell County.
    I recall those personal discussions way before I even 
decided to run for Congress of her saying, listen, there is 
times at night when the sheriff will call me and I am alone in 
our ranch on that 17,000 acre ranch by myself and he is calling 
me to say there are a large group of individuals that just 
crossed the border. You need to be very careful. You are in a 
very precarious situation.
    She could not sleep well at night because of that. There is 
a lot of instances like that where she can recount that. I hope 
you are not discounting her story about what is going on in 
Terrell County. Are you at all doing that, sir?
    Mr. Samaniego. Absolutely. I think you're mixing things. 
That is, at El Paso is very, very different from those other 
communities. So, I cannot speak for them. I can speak for El 
Paso.
    You've got the largest FBI. You've got the largest law 
enforcement. You've got a lot of conditions that you don't see. 
Having crime in El Paso is not--people know that's the worst 
place that you could go.
    Mr. Moran. In your capacity as county judge, you are 
focused on county operations.
    Mr. Samaniego. Absolutely.
    Mr. Moran. So, let's talk about that for a moment. Have you 
guys analyzed from the El Paso County standpoint what is the 
total cost of having to deal with on the local taxpayers' 
burdens and their backs issues related to migrants crossing the 
border illegally? Have you guys analyzed that cost?
    Mr. Samaniego. Absolutely. Ninty-five percent is paid by 
FEMA. They're the ones that are assisting. The Federal 
Government is assisting. Otherwise, we couldn't do it.
    Mr. Moran. Your sheriff's office I am sure is having to 
deal with those issues, or are they not?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, we have not had increases in jails or 
migrants or related to migrants in the sheriff's office. It's 
related to--
    Mr. Moran. What percent of your population in your jail are 
migrants that have come over illegally across the border?
    Mr. Samaniego. Very small. Very small.
    Mr. Moran. What would characterize as very small?
    Mr. Samaniego. I wouldn't want to say something without 
fully understanding that. I could tell you I ask the sheriff 
all the time. Has there been an increase because of migrants? 
We don't face that.
    Mr. Moran. Has your dispatch operations tracked the number 
of calls that your sheriff's officers have to go on that deal 
with illegal immigration?
    Mr. Samaniego. Our biggest impact, Congressman, has to do 
with medical, like, people falling trying to get across the 
wall and hurting themselves and children hurting themselves. 
One of the things that you keep saying that things have 
changed. We're not taking into consideration that the world has 
changed, and there's an increase of a necessity to move into 
the border.
    It's apples and oranges. When I talk to every single 
migrant that I talk to, they're having to experience things 
that they didn't experience last year, experience two years 
ago. These are new changes in the world that's creating the 
increase as well. So, it's not fair to say--
    Mr. Moran. I understand. Some things don't change like good 
fences make good neighbors. That is something I learned as a 
12-year-old boy when my next-door neighbor told me I could swim 
in his swimming pool. Then the next thing I did was I took my 
friend over there without permission.
    He said, you know what? That is not what I authorized you 
to do. He had that right. It is not because he didn't like me. 
It is because at the end of the day, that is his property. We 
were good neighbors as a result of ourselves respecting each 
other's property. Shouldn't we do that--
    Mr. Samaniego. Absolutely. I think there's some confusion 
that we don't want orderly. We don't have that luxury.
    Mr. Moran. So, then would you support Congressman Roy's 
bill that would just simply say enforce the laws currently in 
place?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, that's what we do. There's nothing 
that we do--asylum is legal. The majority of people that come 
across is through asylum. That's legal. There's nothing I can 
do about that.
    [Simultaneous speaking.]
    Chair Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Moran. Thank you, Sheriff, for 
your testimony. More importantly, for your work that you do in 
the law enforcement community and express that same thanks to 
your deputies as well.
    Mr. Dannels. Thank you, Chair. Thank you all.
    Chair Jordan. I now recognize the gentlelady--you bet. I 
now recognize the gentlelady from Florida, Ms. Lee.
    Ms. Lee of Florida. Thank you, Sheriff, for being with us 
here today and to all our witnesses. The testimony that we have 
heard today makes clear that the crisis and lawlessness at our 
southern border is endangering every American community. Drug 
cartels and human traffickers are exploiting our failure to 
secure the southern border, and their criminal activities are 
eroding community safety across America.
    In my community, authorities in Polk County confiscated 
recently 11 pounds of fentanyl. Following this drug bust, our 
State's aAttorney General, Ashley Moody, announced that 
authorities had seized enough fentanyl in the last few months 
to kill every single Floridian. We have an obligation to take 
action to protect our communities.
    We are a Nation of laws. We have an obligation to enforce 
our laws, to secure our borders, and to keep our community 
safe. I would like to return, Mr. Dunn, to your testimony and 
first express my sincere condolences for your loss.
    As a mother, it is particularly important to me that we 
always remember that this isn't just a crisis of statistics. 
This is a tragedy in individual American families that cannot 
be set right. I would appreciate it, sir, if you would do us 
the honor of sharing with us a little bit more about your son. 
What was he like?
    Mr. Dunn. He was an athlete, played football. He was an 
honor roll student. He was a friend. He had so many friends.
    Ms. Lee of Florida. How would you describe the threat of 
fentanyl poisoning to your son and to other young men and women 
who are like him across America?
    Mr. Dunn. It's there. I mean, he was exposed to it by 
somebody that he considered a friend. He unfortunately didn't 
survive.
    He had other friends days later that were poisoned also. 
Luckily, they were saved. The threat is real. We've met at 
least 30 or so families personally in the short amount of time 
that we've been doing what we've been doing.
    We don't get into what politics each other follows. I don't 
know the political affiliations of any of them. We don't talk 
about politics. It's not a political issue. Every single one 
that I've talked to since, they found out I was coming here, 
was tell them we have a problem.
    Ms. Lee of Florida. Could you tell us about your 
organization, the Forever15Project?
    Mr. Dunn. We primarily speak to schools. We're really 
trying to reach the youth in our communities. We do public 
speaking at schools, churches, any organization that'll have us 
come out and speak.
    We've partnered with the Hays County Sheriff's Department. 
They do a presentation that presents facts and statistics on 
fentanyl. Then Janel will tell our story to make it relatable 
to the young people we're talking to.
    We also do a lot of awareness through billboards. We paid 
to have a billboard in Hays County. We were fortunate enough to 
be provided other locations throughout the State of Texas 
because of the overwhelming response that media company 
received about our billboard. Just anything we can do to get 
the word out is what our focus is.
    Ms. Lee of Florida. Are there changes that you would like 
to see enacted or things that we can do to help ensure that 
another tragedy like this doesn't occur?
    Mr. Dunn. Just stop it from getting here. There's always 
going to be drugs smuggled in. It's happened forever.
    In the last couple of years, not just fentanyl but all of 
narcotics smuggling has increased exponentially. While that in 
and of itself is bad, fentanyl is far deadlier than any other 
drug out there. It has a greater ability to kill more Americans 
than any other drug out there.
    Ms. Lee of Florida. Thank you, sir. Mr. Chair, I yield the 
remainder of my time.
    Chair Jordan. Thank the gentlelady. The Chair recognizes 
the gentlelady from Texas for unanimous consent request.
    Ms. Escobar. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I ask unanimous consent, 
and this is on behalf of Mr. Ivey to submit into the record a 
letter signed by El Paso's bishop, the Most Reverend Mark 
Seitz, who is the Chair of the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops 
Committee on migration. It is a letter asking Congress to 
oppose H.R. 29.
    Chair Jordan. Without objection, so ordered.
    The Chair now recognized for our last five minutes of 
questioning, the gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Fry.
    Mr. Fry. Mr. Chair, thank you for having this hearing 
today. Thank you to our witnesses that are here. Mr. Dunn, 
words can't express how sorry I am for your loss. I was in the 
general assembly in South Carolina up until recently and served 
as the Chair of the House opioid abuse prevention study 
committee where we passed 18 bills, a record investment.
    I will tell you that every hearing that we started and 
every hearing that we finished, we started with families who 
were going through exactly what you are going through. So, I 
know how incredibly tough it is for you. I know how incredibly 
brave it is for you to be here today to share your story.
    Mr. Chair, I will tell you it is amazing to me just hearing 
some of the things that have come out of this Committee that we 
on this side of the aisle have imaged things that we are 
engaging in conspiracy theories. We are not imaging the 
increase in human trafficking on our southern border. We are 
not imagining the record of amount of fentanyl seizures, 
fentanyl into this country, fentanyl associated deaths and 
overdoes that occur every single day.
    We are not imagining five million people in this country or 
the 1.2 million got-aways we talked about a little bit, Judge, 
earlier about the amount of people who were seeking asylum. 
What is interesting to me just looking at the statistics was 
that, as was alluded to earlier, 14 percent of those 
individuals were considered lawful. Now, this was under an 
Obama Administration and a Trump Administration.
    So, 14 percent of all people who said that they were 
seeking asylum were actually legitimate asylum seekers. Of 
that, a third--according to Biden v. Texas, a third of that 
absconded into the United States, never appearing for their 
immigration proceedings again. So, I look at the way in which 
the other side today has really glossed over the problems that 
have been exacerbated by this administration.
    As somebody who has dealt with the opioid epidemic in my 
State and how I have studied how other States have handled it 
in Texas and elsewhere, I am incredibly frustrated by an 
unwillingness to deal with this problem. I did want to ask a 
few questions of both of you. I will start with you, sir.
    You have been to--you have obviously seen Texas and other 
States and you have talked to parents involved. In your 
opinion, are governments attempting to trying to deal with in 
good faith the fentanyl epidemic in this country?
    Mr. Dunn. Honestly, up until Noah's passing, we really 
didn't hear much about fentanyl. We had started to hear some 
about it shortly before he passed. Since then, our local 
sheriff's department has been very proactive.
    I don't hear a lot on the State level. I know there's 
stuff--we know about the test strips and whatnot. I haven't 
heard--I've seen billboard media in the Dallas area. So, I'm 
sure there are other areas where awareness is being raised. I 
don't think on a wide scale level the issue is getting much 
attention.
    Mr. Fry. We are not getting any attention in your opinion 
or much attention from the Federal Government to the level it 
should be?
    Mr. Dunn. No.
    Mr. Fry. What would you tell--piggyback on what Ms. Lee was 
talking about earlier. What would you tell parents and children 
about the risks associated with fentanyl?
    Mr. Dunn. Like we tell our five-year-old daughter, don't 
take anything from anybody. You have to assume that everything 
is dangerous now. One of the comments, the sheriff that we do 
speakings with makes, ``is the days of experimentation are 
over.''
    When you were a kid, you could try smoking pot or you could 
try this, that, or the other. Now, it's fentanyl has been mixed 
with everything. So, you can't assume anything is safe. If you 
don't get a prescription from a pharmacy, you can't assume that 
it's what you're getting.
    Mr. Fry. Thank you, sir. Judge, really quick. President 
Biden recently visited the border passing through El Paso. I 
think there was a comment from you in the press that he didn't 
get to see the real difficulties. What did you mean by that and 
what difficulties did he not see on his trip?
    Mr. Samaniego. Well, I know a lot of people thought that we 
had something to do--they call it sanitizing. I could tell you 
that would be crazy on my part for him not to see what really 
was happening. It just so happened the numbers had come down. 
We wanted anybody please see what we really go through. So, we 
were not--
    Mr. Fry. What do you think took him so long to visit the 
border?
    Mr. Samaniego. I can't tell you. I know that thanks to 
Congresswomen Escobar, we're really connected through her. 
She's connected to the Secretary, to the Ambassador. We're 
constantly communicating through them. So, I have a lot of 
trust that Congresswomen Escobar is relying the information 
that he needs. I don't think it's that important that he's not 
there, but that he supports what we're trying to accomplish and 
that is the humanitarian component that El Paso has been doing 
for centuries.
    Mr. Fry. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am out of time. I yield 
back.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the gentleman. Judge, just really 
quick if I could. You said the numbers went down. It just so 
happened they went down when President Biden visited your city 
and the Ranking Member's city. Are they back up now?
    Mr. Samaniego. No, no. We're still pretty low.
    Chair Jordan. OK, OK. I want to thank everyone. Before we 
adjourn, we want to inform all Members about a CODEL our 
Committee will be taking to the border on February 24th. I make 
the minority aware of that.
    This hearing has made clear some of the problems that we--
real problems that we see at our border and across our country. 
So, we want to make sure we can get down to visit that area 
here later this month. Without objection, all Members will have 
five legislative days to submit additional written questions 
for the witnesses for additional materials for the record.
    Without objection, this hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:45 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

    All items submitted for the record by Members of the 
Committee on the Judiciary can be found at https://
docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=115264.

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