[Senate Hearing 117-959]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]






                                



                                                        S. Hrg. 117-959
 
                      THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS COUNCIL

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                    SUBCOMMITTEE ON STRATEGIC FORCES

                                 of the

                      COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 4, 2022

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on Armed Services
         
         
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             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
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                      COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

                   JACK REED, Rhode Island, Chairman

JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire        JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      DEB FISCHER, Nebraska
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              TOM COTTON, Arkansas
TIM KAINE, Virginia                  MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota
ANGUS S. KING, Jr., Maine            JONI ERNST, Iowa
ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
GARY C. PETERS, Michigan             DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia       KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois            RICK SCOTT, Florida
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
                                     TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama

                   Elizabeth L. King, Staff Director

                  John Wason, Minority Staff Director

                                 ______

                    Subcommittee on Strategic Forces

                  ANGUS S. KING, Jr., Maine, Chairman

ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      DEB FISCHER, Nebraska
JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia       TOM COTTON, Arkansas
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois            MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
                                     TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama

                                  (ii)

  


                         C O N T E N T S



                              may 4, 2022 

                                                                   Page

The Nuclear Weapons Council......................................     1

                           Member Statements

Statement of Senator Angus King..................................     1

Statement of Senator Deb Fischer.................................     2

                           Witness Statements

Hruby, The Honorable Jill M., Under Secretary of Energy for           3
  Nuclear Security Administrator, National Nuclear Security 
  Administration.

Richard, Admiral Charles, Commander, United States Strategic          3
  Command.

LaPlante, The Honorable William, Under Secretary of Defense for       4
  Acquisition and Sustainment.

Shyu, The Honorable Heidi, Under Secretary of Defense for             5
  Research and Engineering.

Plumb, The Honorable John, Assistant Secretary of Defense for         7
  Space Policy.

Grady, Admiral Christopher, Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of      7
  Staff.

Questions for the Record.........................................    33

                                 (iii)


                      THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS COUNCIL

                              ----------                              


                         WEDNESDAY, MAY 4, 2022

                      United States Senate,
                  Subcommittee on Strategic Forces,
                               Committee on Armed Services,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 4:37 p.m. in room 
SD-G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Senator Angus King 
(Chairman of the Subcommittee) presiding.
    Committee Members present: King, Reed, Warren, Rosen, 
Kelly, Fischer, Cotton, Rounds, and Tuberville.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ANGUS KING

    Senator King. The subcommittee will come to order. We are 
involved in a series of votes today so there will be a lot of 
back and forth. They are supposedly 10-minute votes but I would 
advise the witnesses, if St. Peter ever says to you you have 10 
minutes to live, you should respond, ``I would like it to be 
during a 10-minute Senate vote,'' because that will give you a 
lot more time.
    Let me thank the witnesses for agreeing to appear today 
before our Strategic Forces Subcommittee. Thank you all for 
your service.
    The purpose of today's hearing is to examine the processes 
and procedures of how the Nuclear Weapons Council (NWC) 
coordinates Department of Defense (DOD) requirements for 
nuclear weapons with the Department of Energy's (DOE) National 
Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) and their budgets. We 
have as witnesses the principals of the Nuclear Weapons 
Council, except for the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy.
    This hearing is a historic one, tracing its roots to 
actions that occurred 76 years ago and reflective of tensions 
that exist between the manufacture and utilization of nuclear 
weapons. The Nuclear Weapons Council once was called the 
Military Liaison Committee and it was established in the 1946 
Atomic Energy Act, after the Manhattan Project was just 
established.
    The committee was the result of an amendment to the 1946 
act by Senator Vandenberg of Michigan, who, after a much-heated 
debate on the civilian versus military control of nuclear 
weapons--at the time consisted of nine such weapons, by the 
way, in our entire stockpile--Senator Vandenberg referred to 
this debate as a tempest in a teapot. I would note that Senator 
Vandenberg worked with President Truman to form NATO [North 
Atlantic Treaty Organization] and the Marshall Plan, and is 
quoted as stating that ``partisan politics should stop at the 
water's edge. Senator Vandenberg's portrait hangs in the 
reception room to our Senate chamber.
    Section 2C of the 1946 act authorized the Military Liaison 
Committee to be staffed with representatives of the War 
Department and the Navy. It directed the civilian commissioners 
of the Atomic Energy Commission to advise and consult with the 
committee on all atomic energy matters which the committee 
deems to relate to the military applications and the 
manufacture or utilization of atomic weapons.
    The provision then goes on to state that if the committee, 
at any time, concludes that any action, proposed action, or 
failure to act of the commission on such matters is adverse to 
the responsibility of the Departments of War or Navy, the 
committee may refer such action or proposed action to the 
Secretaries of the War or Navy. If the Secretary concurs, they 
may refer such action to the President, whose decision shall be 
final. Amazingly, that debate which Senator Vandenberg referred 
to as a tempest in a teapot, still occurs today.
    The Military Liaison Committee was renamed the Nuclear 
Weapons Council after the 1986 Blue Ribbon Task Force on 
Nuclear Weapons Management found that the Department of Defense 
and the Department of Energy should be coordinating more 
tightly on nuclear weapons programs and budgets. I am hopeful 
that today we can examine the relationship between the 
Department of Defense and the NNSA and how requirements and 
budgets are coordinated. And we keep in mind that the debate 
that occurred in 1946 really revolves around the civil-military 
control of nuclear weapons. It is an important and healthy 
tension but one we must respect as fundamental to our laws and 
Constitution.
    We have just finished another nuclear posture review. 
Russia is making reckless statements about nuclear use, and the 
NNSA is executing its highest workload since the 1980s, as we 
rebuild our aging triad. Now more than ever we need the 
Department of Defense and the NNSA to closely coordinate, in a 
unified way, their requirements and budgets so that our nuclear 
deterrent continues to be, as Secretary Ash Carter described 
it, ``the backbone of every national security action we 
undertake today.''
    Again, let me thank today's witnesses for you all agreeing 
to appear, and after brief opening statements we will have 
rounds of 5-minute questions to the witnesses.
    Senator Fischer?

                STATEMENT OF SENATOR DEB FISCHER

    Senator Fischer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will keep my 
statement short so that we can save time for more questions.
    First of all, welcome to all of our witnesses. We 
appreciate the effort it took to align your schedules and 
appear before us today. I am sorry that Secretary Kahl could 
not be with us, but Dr. Plumb, we are glad to have you here. 
Thank you.
    I also want to thank the staff, Jon Epstein, in particular, 
for their effort to bring this hearing together.
    We have before us today the most senior panel that I can 
recall ever appearing before this subcommittee, and we look 
forward to your testimony and about the Nuclear Weapons 
Council's work to ensure our deterrent remains safe, secure, 
effective, and credible, as the geopolitical landscape becomes 
less stable and nuclear threats increase. I remain concerned 
that we are not doing enough and that we continue to accept 
greater risk in our policies, plans, and programs.
    Russia's increasingly overt nuclear threats should remind 
all of us of the importance of nuclear deterrence and the risk 
of deterrence failure. This is the Department of Defense's most 
important mission, and we must ensure it has the capabilities 
and resources necessary to succeed.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator King. Ms. Hruby, if you would begin?

 STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE JILL M. HRUBY, UNDER SECRETARY OF 
  ENERGY FOR NUCLEAR SECURITY ADMINISTRATOR, NATIONAL NUCLEAR 
                    SECURITY ADMINISTRATION

    Ms. Hruby. Chairman Reed, Chairman King, Ranking Member 
Fischer, and Members of the Subcommittee, it is my pleasure to 
be here today with my colleagues from the Nuclear Weapons 
Council.
    The Nuclear Weapons Council serves an indispensable 
coordination role between NNSA and DOD for the design, 
development, testing, and production of U.S. nuclear weapons 
and delivery systems. It also serves a critical role for 
anticipating future needs and managing priorities and risks.
    The biggest challenge NNSA faces today is conducting five 
stockpile modernization programs while simultaneously 
revitalizing our infrastructure. NNSA is fully committed to 
executing programs as efficiently and quickly as possible while 
managing risks. However, the risk will persist until we 
complete the enterprise recapitalization efforts.
    Steady progress is being made. The W88 Alt 370 and the B61-
12 are on track to meet DOD operational schedule. NNSA is also 
developing the modernized W80-4, W87-1, and W93, in partnership 
with DOD. I am proud of how well NNSA is working with the Navy, 
Air Force, USSTRATCOM [United States Strategic Command], and 
the Nuclear Weapons Council during this demanding time.
    The 2022 Nuclear Posture Review (NPR) laid out some clear 
initiatives that impact the NNSA. We are committed to 
implementing production-based resilience and warhead science 
and technology innovation. We are also diligently working to 
recruit, develop, and retain our workforce.
    Lastly, I would be remiss if I did not mention NSSA's 
equally strong commitment to our responsibilities to promote 
nonproliferation, reduce nuclear risk, and enhance 
counterterrorism and counter-proliferation efforts. We 
appreciate your sustained, bipartisan support.
    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
    Senator King. Admiral Richard?

STATEMENT OF ADMIRAL CHARLES RICHARD, COMMANDER, UNITED STATES 
                       STRATEGIC COMMAND

    Admiral Richard. Chairman Reed, Chairman King, Ranking 
Member Fischer, distinguished Committee Members, it is a 
pleasure to be here again as the operational commander 
responsible for our nation's nuclear forces, and being able to 
testify beside my Nuclear Weapons Council colleagues.
    Given Russia's ongoing war against Ukraine, I will have to 
limit my responses in this unclassified forum.
    Let me begin with this observation. We are facing crisis 
deterrence dynamics right now that we have only seen a few 
times in our nation's history. When I testified to this 
committee in March I expressed concern regarding three party 
deterrence dynamics that we face today. The nation and our 
allies have not faced a crisis like Russia's invasion of 
Ukraine in over 30 years. President Putin simultaneously 
invaded a sovereign nation while using thinly veiled nuclear 
threats to deter United States and NATO intervention.
    The PRC [People's Republic of China] is watching the war in 
Ukraine closely and will likely use nuclear coercion to their 
advantage in the future. Their intent is to achieve the 
military capability to reunify Taiwan by 2027, if not sooner.
    STRATCOM has been preparing for this class of threat for 
years, developing theoretical deterrence concepts and putting 
them into action. Yet my ability to maintain strategic 
deterrence is limited. As stated in my fiscal year 2023 
unfunded priorities memo, the war in Ukraine and China's 
nuclear trajectory, their strategic breakout, demonstrates that 
we have a deterrence and assurance gap against the threat of 
limited nuclear employment. To help close this gap, pursuing a 
low-yield, non-ballistic capability that does not require 
visible generation, should be re-examined, in my opinion, in 
the near future, along with other measures to address this.
    Weapons program delays have driven us past the point where 
it is possible to fully mitigate operational risks. In some 
cases we are simply left to assess the damage to our deterrent. 
Further programmatic delays, budget shortfalls, or policy 
decisions to lower operational requirements to meet 
infrastructure capacity will result in operational 
consequences. However, the Nuclear Weapons Council, I believe, 
is well-positioned to assess and meet these challenges.
    I applaud my Secretary, Secretary Austin's Integrated 
Deterrence Initiative, to confront the three-party deterrence 
dynamic. However, I ask us not to forget that the foundation of 
the nation's integrated deterrent is a safe, secure, and 
effective nuclear enterprise. Without this foundation, 
integrated deterrence simply does not work.
    I look forward to your questions.
    Senator King. Thank you. Mr. LaPlante?

STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE WILLIAM LaPLANTE, UNDER SECRETARY OF 
            DEFENSE FOR ACQUISITION AND SUSTAINMENT

    Mr. LaPlante. Thank you, Chairman King and also Ranking 
Member Fischer, and thanks to my colleagues here from the 
Nuclear Weapons Council for this really important subject. It 
was very daunting to hear the history and the provenance of 
this very committee. Thank you, Senator.
    Nuclear deterrence, as has been said, is the top priority 
and is the backbone of everything we have. It is the backbone 
of every operational plan the Department of Defense has, as was 
pointed out by others. And for over 60 years the bedrock of 
that, of course, has been the triad, and we need it to be with 
us for many decades to come.
    And as the admiral just said, we have pushed the 
modernization of those platforms and those capabilities as long 
as we can. So in addition to having the five programs that the 
administrator just talked about, the five programs of the 
stockpile that are being modernized, we are recapitalizing 
three legs of the triad at the same time--as you all know, 
Columbia-class, SSBN, the B-21 bomber, the GBSD [ground-based 
strategic deterrence] ICBM [intercontinental ballistic missile] 
replacement. So we are doing a lot right now because we have 
to, in many ways because we have waited to do this, as a 
country.
    So if there ever was a need for a Nuclear Weapons Council I 
would think it would be today and with these colleagues here. 
As you know, they play a critical and unique role in the 
deterrence mission and had all the purpose that the chairman 
mentioned in this opening remarks.
    It is a joint DOD/NNSA forum, and it is designed to 
facilitate priorities to make sure we are going across these 
seams and understanding the interdependencies, which are many, 
between all these different pieces. This is the time, as much 
as anything else, for this to happen, and I welcome the 
transparency and the strong commitment that colleagues at the 
Department of Energy as well as Administrator Hruby have given 
us.
    We had our first, at least for me, my first session I 
chaired yesterday, and I can tell you we are all on the same 
page. We are all on the same page. So as was mentioned, the NPR 
is out. We now know what our guidance is to do. We have to get 
on and execute. So that is our challenge, and a lot of this 
also, the backdrop is reconstituting capabilities and a 
workforce that has atrophied. These systems that are being 
modernized or recapitalized, the workforce we are using to do 
it is largely a workforce that was not there when their 
predecessor systems, that we have today, were built. So this is 
really a big challenge for us, and I look forward to engaging 
with this committee and with the Nuclear Weapons Council. So 
thank you.
    Senator King. Thank you for your chairmanship of the 
Council.
    I just want to state for the record that this hearing was 
planned in January, before the invasion of Ukraine, and I do 
not want anyone to interpret this hearing as somehow nuclear 
saber-rattling on behalf of the United States. This is a 
hearing that this subcommittee felt was important, but it is 
not related to the events in Ukraine in any specific way. I 
think it is important to make that point.
    Ms. Shyu, please.

   STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE HEIDI SHYU, UNDER SECRETARY OF 
              DEFENSE FOR RESEARCH AND ENGINEERING

    Ms. Shyu. Chairman King, Ranking Member Fischer, and 
Subcommittee Members, thank you for inviting us to provide 
testimony for the Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on 
the Nuclear Weapons Council's activities to sustain and 
modernize the U.S. nuclear deterrent. I am honored and proud to 
be seated beside my other distinguished council members and to 
represent all of the incredible military, civilian, laboratory, 
and contractor personnel that carry out the work of ensuring 
our nation sustains a safe, secure, reliable, and effective 
nuclear deterrent.
    The Office of Under Secretary of Defense for Research and 
Engineering is responsible for the Department of Defense's 
National Defense Science and Technology strategy, including the 
Department's nuclear weapon modernization activities. We share 
the responsibility of ensuring an enduring scientific and 
technological advantage for the nation's nuclear enterprise, 
with the National Nuclear Security Administration. Together we 
are tasked with creating innovative ways to ensure that the 
modernization of the nuclear triad achieves strategic 
deterrence during a period of rapidly evolving threats.
    A month ago I testified before the Senator Armed Services 
Committee Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and Capabilities on 
how I am working to accelerate innovation for the warfighter. 
This mission has never been more important than it is today, 
and applies as much to a nuclear force as it does to our 
conventional forces.
    Strategic competitors to the United States are rapidly 
developing their nuclear arsenal in new and novel ways, with a 
clear intent of increasing their reliance on these weapons in 
their security strategies. The United States must not allow 
ourselves to be taken by technological surprise, and we must 
have the technological resilience to anticipate and rapidly 
respond to emerging threats.
    We have a solemn responsibility to ensure that we place our 
nuclear delivery systems and platforms in both a timely and 
cost-effective manner. My job is to make sure that we bring the 
best technological innovation that the nation has to offer. 
This includes leveraging emerging technologies and advanced 
manufacturing methods, making wise investments in the defense 
industrial base, ensuring the integrity of our supply chains, 
and increasing focus on exquisite modeling and simulation, 
rapid prototyping, and demonstration capabilities.
    I have also set for the Department 14 critical technology 
areas vital to maintaining our military technological 
advantage, some of which specifically applies to the nuclear 
enterprise, such as areas surround microelectronics, advanced 
materials, quantum science, advanced computing and software, 
and integrated network systems assistance.
    The Department of Defense is also committed to investing in 
retaining a highly skilled nuclear science and technology 
workforce. This is the enduring means by which we ensure the 
long-term viability of our nation's nuclear deterrent.
    These are the current ways my office is contributing to the 
Nuclear Weapons Council activities and will work towards 
implanting nuclear policy objectives, including supporting the 
modernization of the nuclear triad.
    Thank you for the invitation to testify before this 
committee. I look forward to your questions.
    Senator King. Thank you.
    John Plumb, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Space 
Policy.

 STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE JOHN PLUMB, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF 
                    DEFENSE FOR SPACE POLICY

    Mr. Plumb. Thank you, Senator King. Chairman Reed, Chairman 
King, Ranking Member Fischer, and Members of the Subcommittee, 
I am also honored to testify here today with my colleagues on 
the Nuclear Weapons Council, where I am proud to represent 
policy for most meetings.
    In my role as Assistant Secretary of Defense I am 
responsible for nuclear weapons policy, and so I thought today 
it would be appropriate to use my brief time to discuss the 
2022 Nuclear Posture Review.
    The Department completed its review of nuclear posture 
earlier this year, in close consultation with the interagency, 
outside experts, allies, and partners. The NPR represents a 
comprehensive, balance approach to U.S. nuclear strategy, 
policy, posture, and forces, and as Admiral Richard said, 
maintaining a safe, secure, and effective nuclear deterrent as 
well as a strong, incredible, extended deterrence commitment 
remains the top priority for the Department. This top priority 
is further reinforced by Russia's invasion of and nuclear 
rhetoric regarding Ukraine and by China's rapid nuclear 
modernization and expansion.
    Committed to that priority, the President's fiscal year 
2023 budget request includes $34.4 billion for the nuclear 
enterprise. This includes fully supporting the modernization of 
the triad, modernizing our nuclear security infrastructure, and 
investments in our NC3, nuclear command, control, and 
communications architecture.
    That $34.4 billion is nearly $7 billion more than the 
fiscal year 2022 request. It includes funding for the B-21 
bomber and the LRSO for the air leg, GBSD for the ground leg, 
and the Columbia SSBN and the Trident II life extension for the 
sea leg. At the same time and after considering all viewpoints, 
the NPR concluded that the SLCM [sea-launched cruise missile] 
should be cancelled and the B-83-1 should be retired.
    The NPR underscores the U.S. commitment to reducing the 
role of nuclear weapons and reestablishing our leadership in 
arms control. We will continue to emphasize strategic 
stability, seek to avoid costly arms races, and facilitate risk 
reduction and arms control arrangements, where possible.
    Our nuclear forces remain the bedrock of our deterrence 
architecture. They are foundational to every defense priority 
established in the National Defense Strategy (NDS), and they 
remain indispensable to our national security. It is my honor 
to work with the Nuclear Weapons Council and the Congress and 
the committee on these issues.
    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
    Senator King. Thank you, sir.
    The final witness, Admiral Christopher Grady, Vice Chairman 
of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Admiral Grady.

 STATEMENT OF ADMIRAL CHRISTOPHER GRADY, VICE CHAIRMAN OF THE 
                     JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF

    Admiral Grady. Chairman Reed, Chairman King, Ranking Member 
Fischer, and distinguished Members of the Subcommittee, thank 
you for the opportunity to testify today with my colleagues.
    For 78 years, since the end of World War II, democratic 
institutions and the rules-based order have prevented great-
power war. Since the advent of the nuclear age, our nuclear 
deterrent has served a vital purpose in a U.S. national 
security strategy and continues to be an essential part of our 
strategy to preserve peace and stability by deterring 
aggression against the United States, our allies, and our 
partners.
    However, today we face a complex global threat environment 
characterized by increasingly sophisticated and militarily 
capable strategic competitors who intend to fundamentally 
change the rules-based order, and this, of course, as recently 
evidenced by an unprovoked and unnecessary war of aggression by 
Russia.
    Since the Manhattan Project, a partnership between the 
National Laboratories, production facilities, and our 
respective departments has provided us with the cornerstone of 
our security, the nuclear deterrent, and these relationships 
are evolving and growing stronger as we transition from 
maintaining legacy systems to producing modern capabilities. 
This is why the 2022 National Defense Strategy and Nuclear 
Posture Review reinforces our commitment to modernize the 
triad.
    As the subcommittee conducts its crucial oversight on this 
important topic there are three areas that I recommend require 
focused leadership. First, everything we do should start with 
the threat, and the threat is moving fast, and the Joint Force 
requires capabilities that give us the ability to deter and 
respond at the time and place of our choosing.
    Next, we must accelerate how we buy, develop, experiment, 
and field modern capabilities, particularly how we manage the 
Phase X process. Moving at the speed of relevance is not a 
``nice to have.'' It is a ``must have,'' but many of our 
processes and our products are products of the industrial age.
    We also require timely and predictable funding to achieve 
modernization, and our activities are highly interdependent and 
funding gaps disrupt our ability to deliver, and I appreciate 
the support of the committee to that end.
    In closing, a thank the subcommittee for its leadership and 
commitment to the nuclear deterrence mission and all of our 
servicemembers, and I look forward to your questions. thank 
you.
    [The joint prepared statement of Hon. Jill Hruby, Hon. 
Heidi Shyu, Hon. William LaPlante, Hon. John Plumb, Admiral 
Richard, and Admiral Christopher W. Grady, follows:]

  Joint Prepared Statement by Hon. William LaPlante, Hon. Heidi Shyu, 
Hon. Jill Hruby, Admiral Christopher W. Grady, Admiral Charles Richard, 
                          and Hon. John Plumb
    Chairman King, Ranking Member Fischer, and distinguished Members of 
the Subcommittee, thank you for giving the Members of the Nuclear 
Weapons Council (NWC) the opportunity to testify before you today. The 
NWC is a joint Department of Defense (DOD) and Department of Energy 
(DOE) National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) organization, 
codified in law by Title 10, United States Code Section 179, and 
established to facilitate cooperation and coordination and institute 
priorities between the two Departments regarding the management, 
sustainment, and modernization of the U.S. nuclear deterrent. Together, 
the Council is proud to represent extraordinary and highly skilled 
soldiers, sailors, marines, airmen, guardians, civilians, laboratory 
personnel, and contractors who are the core of the nuclear security 
enterprise. They are professional, mission-oriented, and innovative 
problem-solvers charged with ensuring our Nation sustains a safe, 
secure, reliable, and effective nuclear deterrent.
    The U.S. nuclear stockpile remains the bedrock of our strategic 
deterrent. As the United States continues to advance nuclear 
modernization programs, the NWC sees an increasing need to collaborate 
to best manage risk. It is essential that the stockpile remains 
balanced, flexible, and adaptable to address emerging threats and to 
remain credible.
    We are witnessing one of the largest shifts in global geostrategic 
power in recent memory, and the NWC--in support of the nuclear 
deterrence mission--has never been more important or relevant than it 
is today. The threat we face as a Nation is no longer a projection, it 
is here: China is modernizing its nuclear stockpile and strategic 
nuclear forces at a rapid pace while Russia's decades-long 
modernization program of their strategic deterrent forces is nearly 
complete. In addition, Russia's nuclear saber-rattling amid its 
unprovoked invasion of Ukraine underscores the nuclear risks that the 
United States, our allies, and our partners face amid an increasingly 
challenging security environment. As the United States faces these 
developments, the modernization of U.S. nuclear forces must continue to 
advance to ensure that no adversary engaged in increasingly assertive 
and aggressive actions believes that it can prevail through the use of 
nuclear coercion, the employment of nuclear weapons, or the employment 
of other strategic capabilities for any reason, under any circumstance.
                            nwc organization
    As mandated by Title 10, U.S. Code 179, the NWC manages and sets 
priorities for the nuclear weapons stockpile. Our membership includes 
the Under Secretary of Defense (USD) for Acquisition and Sustainment 
(Chair), the DOE Under Secretary for Nuclear Security and Administrator 
of the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA), the USD for 
Policy, the USD for Research and Engineering, the Vice Chairman of the 
Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Commander of U.S. Strategic Command. To 
ensure all equities within the nuclear security enterprise are 
represented, we receive consistent, valuable participation from other 
organizations including the Military Services, the DOD Comptroller, the 
DOD Office of Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation (CAPE) and NNSA 
Office of Cost Estimating and Program Evaluation (CEPE), the Office of 
Management and Budget (OMB) and the National Security Council (NSC). 
While the NWC is statutorily required to meet quarterly, for years we 
have elected to meet once a month at the executive-level. All NWC 
Principals believe that this pace appropriately reflects the amount of 
work to be done and the level of commitment to the nuclear deterrence 
mission at the highest levels of both Departments. A core tenet of the 
NWC's process is reaching consensus, and the pace of meetings supports 
this important principle.
    To ensure that the NWC properly engages at all levels, we use 
subordinate committees and action groups to identify and analyze issues 
and provide detailed recommendations to the Council. The NWC Standing 
and Safety Committee (NWCSSC), co-chaired by the Assistant Secretary of 
Defense for Nuclear, Chemical, and Biological Defense Programs and the 
Deputy Administrator for Defense Programs at DOE/NNSA, provides senior 
executive advice, assistance, information, analysis, and 
recommendations on issues for the Council's consideration. 
Additionally, DOE/NNSA details members of its staff to DOD and most 
importantly, a staff member to serve as the NWCSSC Executive Secretary, 
ensuring interagency representation and leadership at the staff-level. 
The NWC continually analyzes our current working relationships to 
ensure well-informed and empowered teams are preparing and providing 
recommendations to the NWC through a streamlined decision-making 
process. NWC issues are not only addressed when the Members and 
subcommittees meet, our mission is executed every day through this 
organizational structure and open collaborations between interagency 
partners.
        nwc focus on stockpile modernization and its challenges
    The NWC recognizes the need for our future nuclear stockpile to be 
balanced, flexible, and adaptable to address emerging threats and to 
remain credible in a shifting security environment. Due to the age of 
our legacy weapons systems, maintenance and sustainment is becoming 
increasing costly and ineffective at quickly and efficiently addressing 
the future security environment. As a result, the nuclear enterprise 
must balance priorities between the maintenance of legacy systems and 
the increasing investments in modernization. Through the annual 
assessment process, the NWC monitors and advises the Secretaries of 
Defense and Energy on all issues facing the aging stockpile. The NWC is 
committed to ensuring that U.S. nuclear weapon and delivery system 
modernization programs in both Departments are aligned, which will help 
in the identification and mitigation of risk across the modernization 
portfolio. There are currently four major nuclear weapons delivery 
system programs and five warhead programs simultaneously underway, and 
the NWC will continue to be intimately involved in their progress.
    DOE/NNSA's warhead programs have reached some significant 
milestones since the last time the Council testified before this body. 
The first production unit of the W88 Alteration 370 was completed in 
July 2021, extending the life of the W88 through its planned retirement 
in the 2040s. The B61-12 achieved first production in November 2021, 
further assuring allies we value our extended deterrence commitment. 
The W80-4 cruise missile warhead, which will be mated to the modernized 
Long-Range Standoff (LRSO) weapon, is expected to enter the production 
engineering phase of development in fiscal year 2023. NNSA and the NWC 
are reevaluating the schedule for the first production unit of W80-4, 
but NNSA does not anticipate it will affect the initial operating 
capability date for LRSO. The W87-1, the first warhead modernization 
truly driving the full production enterprise since the end of the Cold 
War, is on track to enter its engineering development phase in time to 
begin replacing the W78 on alert in 2030. Finally, the W93 just entered 
its feasibility study phase, furthering opportunities for both the 
United States and the United Kingdom to responsibly address challenges 
within their legacy nuclear forces. Although production delays have 
impacted our ability to meet key program milestones, the close 
coordination between DOE/NNSA and DOD on all of these programs 
indicates the tangible progress that both Departments have made through 
the NWC to sustain and modernize the stockpile and to provide 
deterrence capabilities for decades to come. However, without 
predictable, sustained and timely funding of the DOD and NNSA budgets, 
this close coordination is not enough to overcome the challenges we 
face in sustaining and modernizing the stockpile.
   nuclear security enterprise production capabilities and capacities
    The United States has not embarked on the production of nuclear 
weapons at-scale in over 30 years and will not be fully postured to do 
so until the middle of the next decade. The nuclear security enterprise 
must continue revitalizing efforts aimed at establishing resilience and 
responsiveness in the weapons production complex and defense industrial 
base through investments in science and engineering capabilities, 
technology innovation, and infrastructure, as well as enterprise 
intellectual capital. These efforts are required to maintain the 
nuclear stockpile, without underground nuclear explosive testing, and 
improve the safety, security, reliability, and effectiveness of the 
deterrent into the future. Ensuring the supply chain is flexible, 
resilient, and secure will eliminate single-point failures and enable 
DOE/NNSA to manufacture nuclear weapons with the speed and in the 
quantities required to address evolving threats. Both Departments will 
seek opportunities to accelerate the joint acquisition process for 
nuclear weapons and evaluate the tradeoffs that they entail during the 
annual program and budgeting cycles.
    DOE/NNSA is currently working to reconstitute key production 
capabilities to deliver the critical components needed to modernize the 
stockpile, including weapon primaries, secondaries, and non-nuclear 
components, to meet the NWC's stockpile requirements. The NWC remains 
committed to NNSA's two-site strategy for plutonium pit production and 
recognizes the accomplishment of meeting two key milestones in fiscal 
year 2021: the approval of Critical Decision (CD)-1 packages for major 
capital acquisition projects that underpin the two-site strategy for 
pit production, the Los Alamos Plutonium Pit Production Program (LAP4) 
and the Savannah River Plutonium Processing Facility (SRPPF). NNSA has 
informed the Congress and the DOD that meeting the DOD requirement for 
80 pits per year (PPY) by 2030 is unachievable. Re-establishing war 
reserve pit production at the required rate of 80 PPY as close as 
technically and programmatically feasible to 2030 is essential to 
executing the stockpile modernization Program of Record and maintaining 
the credibility of the Nation's strategic deterrent force. NNSA is 
continuously working to mitigate the impacts associated with the 
inability to produce 80 pits per year by 2030. We are working to assess 
the operational impacts we are accepting as a result of this delay 
while still actively exploring options to accelerate schedule and to 
deliver on DOD's needed capabilities. DOE/NNSA assesses the equipment 
installation and facility construction needed to produce the additional 
50 war reserve pits per year from SRPPF is achievable in the 2032-2035 
timeframe and is committed to identifying an implementation path to 
produce 80 pits per year as close to 2030 as possible. Pit production 
is just one of many critical capabilities needed to ensure the Nation 
retains a viable and robust nuclear security enterprise.
    Today, key production capabilities and needed capacities are at 
great risk in large part due to infrastructure challenges. In late 
2021, the NWC agreed to pursue a deeper understanding of the issues 
associated with production capability and capacity across the nuclear 
security enterprise and continues to gather data and evaluate scenarios 
regarding key decision points. The NWC continues to fully support 
ongoing life extension and modernization programs to deliver on 
critical needs for the U.S. deterrent.
                      2022 nuclear posture review
    The Under Secretary of Defense for Policy led the 2022 Nuclear 
Posture Review (NPR). The Department of Defense transmitted the 
classified 2022 National Defense Strategy (NDS) to Congress on March 
28, integrated in the NDS was the 2022 NPR and 2022 Missile Defense 
Review (MDR), in support of the President's Fiscal Year 2023 Budget 
which was fully informed by these policy documents. In keeping with the 
Secretary's vision of integrated deterrence, the NPR and MDR are nested 
under the NDS. The NPR takes a balanced approach to strategic stability 
in the 21st century--evincing a commitment to a safe, secure, and 
effective nuclear deterrent and strong and credible extended 
deterrence, while simultaneously taking steps to reduce the role of 
nuclear weapons in our strategy through nuclear nonproliferation, 
nuclear risk reduction, nuclear arms control, and nuclear 
counterterrorism and counterproliferation. Nuclear weapons will 
continue to provide unique deterrence effects that no other element of 
U.S. military power can replace. Amidst the current security 
environment, the NWC will continue to support investments in modernized 
nuclear forces that are responsive to the threats we face, to deter 
aggression, and preserve the security of the United States, our allies, 
and our partners.
                               conclusion
    We cannot overstate the significance of the present moment for 
nuclear modernization. Successful, on-time execution of the Program of 
Record, and commitment to the development and funding of modernization 
programs will ensure no potential adversary ever believes it can carry 
out a strategic attack on the United States or our allies for any 
reason, under any circumstances, without risking devastating 
consequences. We thank this Committee for its longstanding, bipartisan 
support for our nuclear deterrent mission and for the professionals 
across the nuclear security enterprise. We look forward to your 
questions.

    Senator King. Thank you, Admiral. Thanks to all of our 
witnesses. We will do 5-minute rounds, as per the committee's 
custom.
    Let me begin. Mr. LaPlante, you are the chair. The most 
general question is, how is it working? We have had problems in 
the past. There have been, as you know, some controversy over 
the last several years. Do you feel that the budget process 
this year between NNSA and the Department of Defense worked as 
it should? Was it vigorous but smooth?
    Mr. LaPlante. Yeah, thanks for the question, Mr. Chairman. 
Yes, it is my understanding, and I have done a lot of talking 
in my last couple of weeks and listening to a lot of my 
colleagues, including on this group, that it was quite thorough 
and robust, the work of NWC, in reviewing the budget. In fact, 
it was chaired by my colleague who is actually here behind me, 
Honorable Rosenblum. And it was very thorough and complete, and 
went through, I do not know, several months of it, and seemed 
to end up at a place where I think people felt pretty 
comfortable that we had looked at things with a good degree of 
fidelity, and of course concluded the adequacy of what we were 
trying to do, but also agreed with the NNSA conclusion about 
getting to 80 pits per year by 2030 is not being, at least as 
of today, appears to be possible.
    So it appears--and again, as I mentioned in my opening 
remarks, I chaired my first meeting yesterday, and I could just 
say from that meeting, who knows. We all are on the same page. 
I mean, we are also struck by the enormity of what we have to 
do. I mean, again, we do not have time to bicker and we do not 
have time to go into silos now. We just do not have the time. 
And everything is so independent.
    Senator King. It is really a triad of modernization. It is 
the triad, the delivery. We are modernizing all three legs, we 
are modernizing the weapon system, but we are also modernizing 
the facilities themselves at NNSA. I have been to Los Alamos 
and there are some--I think there are some facilities that date 
back to the Manhattan Project. So it is massive undertaking.
    Admiral Richard, you touched on this, I think, in your 
testimony, and we were talking about deterrence. The budget 
defunds the sea-launch cruise missile, and my question is, do 
we have a deterrent capability below the level of a massive 
response, and if not, is that not a gap in our deterrent 
capacity?
    Admiral Richard. We do have a deterrent capability, and you 
are talking about a class of deterrence challenge that STRATCOM 
has been working on since 2015. How do you deter limited 
employment?
    Nuclear Posture Review, very thorough review. I think as 
you all have seen this is an excellent strategy that has 
resulted. But I think it is incumbent upon us to learn lessons 
as we go along, as the threat changes, both China's strategic 
breakout and what we are learning in real time in the crisis 
inside Ukraine.
    And so not all of your triad is available all of the time. 
Day-to-day we have a dyad. And so the question becomes, as we 
go forward, what changes, capacity, capacity, and posture do we 
need to have to better deter the threats we face? And I do 
submit that is a question we need to be looking at, and based 
on what we are learning from the Ukraine crisis, the deterrence 
and assurance gap--it is important not to leave that out--a 
non-ballistic, low-yield, non-treaty accountable system that is 
available without visible generation, would be very valuable.
    Senator King. And we do not have that today. Is that 
correct?
    Admiral Richard. That is correct.
    Senator King. A different question on deterrence. One of 
the things that keeps me up at night is nonstate actors getting 
ahold of nuclear weapons. Ms. Hruby, I know that part of your 
list of things to do is nonproliferation. The problem with 
terrorists having a nuclear weapon is that deterrence does not 
work with them. They do not care too much about dying and they 
do not have a capital city to be worried about. And I just 
commend to all of you, and perhaps I can submit this question 
for the record, particularly you, Admiral Richard, I would like 
to something about how we deter, how do we deal with the risk 
of a proliferation of nuclear weapons to a terrorist, to 
nonstate actors, for whom the normal, the theory of deterrence 
does not really apply?
    Final quick question, Ms. Hruby, and you may want to talk 
about this later. Savannah River, 80 pits a year. It does not 
look like we are going to make it. Is there a plan to 
accelerate that process and get a better handle on costs?
    Ms. Hruby. The Savannah River pit production facility would 
make 50 pits per year to allow us, as a country, combined with 
the Los Alamos 30 pits per year, to make 80.
    We are moving as fast as we can on the Savannah River pit 
production facility design. That is the phase that we are in. 
That design is occurring at about 75 percent of the time that a 
non-nuclear design of that same magnitude would take place, so 
I feel like that is accelerated. When the design is complete we 
will begin construction. When the construction is complete we 
will begin trying to make pits at rate. So we have multiple 
steps. We will try to accelerate each of those steps, and, in 
fact, we are hoping to begin to do some prebuys of long-lead 
items to prepare for the construction phase now.
    Senator King. Thank you. Senator Fischer.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Admiral Richard, I would like to ask my first question of 
you, and it is a repeat of what Chairman King asked. You 
reported to us last year, in your prepared statement, you said, 
speaking of SLCM, ``Without this capability adversaries may 
perceive an advantage at lower levels of conflict that may 
encourage limited nuclear use.'' Is that still your view?
    Admiral Richard. Senator, it is.
    Senator Fischer. And you believe that we have a deterrence 
and an assurance gap without SLCM. Is that correct?
    Admiral Richard. Senator, I do. And what I would add is 
that one of the takeaways, I think, from Ukraine is there are 
certain scenarios that were judged to be highly improbable that 
have now materialized in front of us in real life, and I think 
that requires us to go back and reassess some of the decisions 
we have made in the past.
    Senator Fischer. Do you believe that the NPR that just came 
out recently from the Administration, does that provide the 
Department to have conversations on not just the threats that 
are out there but also on the needs that this country must have 
to defend the homeland?
    Admiral Richard. Senator, I think it does. The NPR has 
produced, in my opinion, a very good strategy. I think as we 
implement the NPR what we have to do is take that strategy, and 
then as threats change, right--and I would refer to China's 
strategic--we do not know where China is going to wind up in 
capability and capacity. We are learning probabilities are 
different, based on what we are seeing in Ukraine, and the NPR 
calls for that. The next step is to actually implement that 
process and ask ourselves what posture, what capability, what 
capacity do we need to execute that good strategy.
    Senator Fischer. And do you feel confident that you and 
other members of the Department and the military will be able 
to express those views in a very thoughtful manner and the 
confidence in the Administration and the possibilities of 
looking at change?
    Admiral Richard. Senator, I am certainly asking for that.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you very much.
    Admiral Grady, your predecessor, General Hyten, testified 
in support of SLCM many times. He was quoted in one of his 
appearances before this subcommittee. He said, ``My job as a 
military officer is to look at the threat, understand the 
threat, and propose capabilities to this body to deliver to the 
military so that we can respond to any threat that exists. It 
is all about the threat.''
    Have the threats changed, sir?
    Admiral Grady. Yes, ma'am. First of all----
    Senator Fischer. Would it be your best military advice to 
at least continue research and development on the capability 
that we have with SLCM?
    Admiral Grady. I am aligned with the chairman on this, and 
I think consistent with my testimony and with his in that it is 
all about providing the President options against a broad 
series of contingencies, and in this respect, then, I am in 
favor of continuing to assess and evaluate the SLCM end going 
forward.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you, Sir.
    Dr. Plumb, welcome. In Section 1641 of the fiscal year 2022 
Defense Authorization Bill there was a requirement that the 
Department submit the analysis of alternatives conducted for 
the sea-launched cruise missile. When will that be submitted?
    Mr. LaPlante. Thank you for the question. My understanding 
is it is within a matter of days. I think they are putting 
together the cover letter and the rest, to send that AOA over 
here.
    Senator Fischer. The Nuclear Posture Review, it estimates 
the total cost for the SLCM program. Can you provide us with a 
written breakdown of that cost estimate in the future, please?
    Mr. LaPlante. Thank you. To the extent that it is 
available. Again, I have not been briefed on the AOA. To the 
extent that it is available, absolutely.
    Senator Fischer. Okay. Thank you.
    Dr. Plumb, maybe this is for you. Over the next 8 years 
China is expected to quadruple its stockpile, and Russia's 
arsenal, which already exceeds our own, is also expected to 
grow further. While this NPR recommends continuing the 
replacement of our aging delivery systems, this essentially 
recapitalizes a force that is sized and configured along the 
lines of the 2010 New START Treaty force structure.
    Is this Administration's view that all the developments we 
have seen, for example, China's crash nuclear buildup, Russia's 
violation of the INF [Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces] 
Treaty, that they do not have any real impact on United States 
nuclear posture, and the modernization plan initially conceived 
of in 2010, is sufficient?
    Mr. Plumb. Thanks, Senator. China's breakout, if you will, 
but certainly their advanced modernization of their ICBMs and 
their nuclear posture overall is clearly concerning. As you 
well know, Russia's intent to include nuclear weapons 
throughout its forces, almost at every level, is also of 
concern.
    I would just point out two things. One, the three-body 
problem we are about to face here, or are facing even now, is 
new, and it is going to require serious consideration, and I do 
not think there is a single person in the Administration on any 
side of these issues that does not realize that and think that 
this is a problem that is going to require continued 
introspection and review.
    And the second thing, not everyone values nuclear weapons 
at the same level. Each country has its own approach. I think 
we have seen Russia's conventional forces is weaker than 
certainly they imagine, and than we imagined, and that explains 
further their over-reliance on nuclear weapons. I do not think 
we need to match them one-for-one or yield-for yield to be able 
to deter each adversary.
    Senator Fischer. The 2010 plan, though, that did not really 
consider China. You know, China's buildup was after that. How 
would you respond to that?
    Mr. Plumb. Again, I would say you are correct. China's 
acceleration here was maybe thought of but certainly not as 
direct of a threat to us right now. I think we are postured to 
deter both, but all of these things require continued 
reevaluation of the threat and reevaluation of posture.
    The one thing to note, of course, and this council is the 
place to address this, is we have a huge bow wave of 
modernization coming just for these things in the triad that we 
need. $34.4 billion is not the largest number. There are larger 
numbers coming. We have capacity issues with NNSA as well, and 
so we have to take all of these realities into account as we 
look at this problem.
    Senator Fischer. And the reality of the--one last point--
the reality of the Defense Department's budget is there is a 
very small percentage that goes to our nuclear weapons. Is that 
not true?
    Mr. Plumb. I believe it is 4.5 percent for the nuclear 
piece overall. The weapons piece obviously is smaller, Senator.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you.
    Senator King. Thank you, Senator Fischer. Senator Reed.
    Senator Reed. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I had the 
opportunity to speak with Administrator Hruby yesterday, and I 
am trying to understand two messages. One, Administrator Hruby 
wrote to the committee on April 12th, indicating the unfunded 
priority of $250 million to $500 million for pit production at 
the Savannah River site. Then on April 22nd, the Nuclear 
Weapons Council wrote to the committee that additional funding 
would not be required. Indeed, the words were ``funding alone 
will not enable it to meet pit production requirements.''
    So at least in my mind there appears to be a discrepancy 
between what NNSA is saying and what the Nuclear Weapons 
Council is saying, so let me begin with Secretary LaPlante and 
then ask Administrator Hruby to comment.
    Mr. LaPlante. Thank you, Senator, for the question. I 
understand the question.
    The Nuclear Weapons Council stands by the assessment that I 
signed on April 22nd, of the adequacy of the budget as well as 
that no additional money will get the pits to 80 per year. And 
I would say this. The Nuclear Weapons Council has been 
tracking, since the fall, this potential idea and concepts of 
additional, let's say, early, long-leads items possibilities 
that might help bring the pit production to 80 per year by 
2030, but just will be assistance in leaning forward. We have 
been aware of this for some time. It was not really at a high 
degree of fidelity when we reviewed it so we did not consider 
it at the time.
    I think since then, particularly for the part--and I would 
also defer to my colleague in a moment--that involved the $250 
million, the three items, the glove boxes and the building 
facility as well as the training, it appears that we have 
enough fidelity that it looks like it might be sensible to do. 
However, we need to review it, and the plan right now is the 
Nuclear Weapons Council, in the next few weeks, we are going to 
take a look at this proposal and we will make our comments on 
it and make it available both to you and to this committee.
    I would just say this. We really want to applaud leaning 
forward, so our bias is going to be leaning forward. If there 
are good ideas that will continue to up, out of our colleagues 
at NNSA, we need to make sure we look at them, and if they are 
solid we need to implement them. And this is going to be a 
continuous process.
    Subject to questions, that is my answer.
    Senator Reed. Thank you. Administrator, your letter 
preceded the commission's letter. You are a member of the 
commission. Do you concur with that or do you offer additional 
advice?
    Ms. Hruby. I concur, but, Senator, if you would let me try 
to clarify. So the Nuclear Weapons Council letter made a 
comment that no additional amount of money will get 80 pits per 
year in 2030. That is a statement that I completely agree with. 
The request for additional money, the letter I signed out, was 
associated with trying to buy down risks and accelerate 
processes to get construction completed faster and to get to 
pit production faster, not to get to 2030. So this would still 
be post-2030, but it would allow us to have more confidence 
that we would not have to stop or stall because we did not have 
equipment when we were doing the construction project and to 
make sure that the people are ready to make pits when they can 
get in the building.
    Senator Reed. Well, I would appreciate further advice and 
comment as you study this issue going forward. And one other 
issue, which might not be appropriate for an open session, is 
that we both agree that 2030 target is not achievable. As it 
goes back we have to think about what effect it has on our 
nuclear deterrence, on our ability to actually arm nuclear 
weapons. I am sure you are doing that, and in a classified 
session we can pursue that question. Thank you.
    I have a brief bit of time, but for the vice chairman, 
admiral. The proposal for the submarine-launched cruise missile 
would actually involve the attack submarines. Is that correct?
    Admiral Grady. That is correct, sir.
    Senator Reed. And was part of the analysis the effect on 
the operational requirements of attack submarines, vis-a-vis 
strategic ballistic missile submarines, and did that factor 
into the recommendation by the Nuclear Posture Review?
    Admiral Grady. Sir, since my time as the vice chairman I 
have not studied that issue nor have I seen that study. That is 
not to say it did not happen. So I would like to go back and 
determine whether that did happen.
    Now the SLCM-N [nuclear-armed sea-launched cruise missile] 
was validated CONOP [concept of operations] and how it might 
affect the --
    Senator Reed. Admiral Richard, because I am over, but do 
you have a quick comment?
    Admiral Richard. Admiral Grady's assessment was very 
accurate, and I will offer that there are a wide range of 
CONOPS that are available to the Navy for the employment of 
SLCM-N on a nuclear-powered submarine, not necessarily the 
CONOP that we used for the old TLAM-N.
    Senator Reed. [Presiding.] Thank you very much.
    Let me recognize Senator Cotton, please, on behalf of 
Senator King.
    Senator Cotton. Thank you all for your appearance here 
today. It is good to see the entire Nuclear Weapons Council 
here, with one exception, the Under Secretary of Defense for 
Policy, Colin Kahl. Mr. Plumb, you are filling in for Mr. Kahl 
today. Do you know why he could not be here?
    Mr. Plumb. Senator, I do not have a specific but I will say 
that on his behalf I attend the Nuclear Weapons Council 
meetings. That is my responsibility as ASD [Assistant Secretary 
of Defense] Space Policy, the nuclear weapons policy. And so we 
have got a close working relationship, but I think from a panel 
standpoint, at least in my mind, sir----
    Senator Cotton. I am glad you do that, and I am sure you 
do. Was he in the Pentagon today, working? Does anybody know? 
Admiral Grady, do you know if he was in the Pentagon working 
today?
    Admiral Grady. I do not know, sir.
    Senator Cotton. Is he in the Washington National Capital 
region? Do you know that, Mr. Plumb?
    Mr. Plumb. Sir, I do not.
    Senator Cotton. Mr. LaPlante, you are the chair of the 
council. Do you know where one of your council members is?
    Mr. LaPlante. I do not. Not right now. Not today. Thank 
you.
    Senator Cotton. I just want to point out this seems to be 
part of a continued pattern on behalf of the Chairman of the 
Committee and apparently now the Subcommittee of protecting 
Colin Kahl at all costs from appearing in public before this 
Committee. And I think it is a pattern that should stop.
    Admiral Richard, I know you have already touched briefly on 
this. I was gone. I just want to make sure I understand your 
testimony. You said on your unfunded priorities list that you 
need, quote, ``a low-yield, non-ballistic capability to deter 
and respond without visible generation.'' Let's put that in 
plain English. ``Low-yield, non-ballistic capability.'' That 
sounds a lot like a cruise missile. ``Without visible 
generation.'' That sounds like something that is not on an 
airplane. So to me that sounds like a sea-launched cruise 
missile with nuclear capabilities. Is that right?
    Admiral Richard. Senator, a sea-launched cruise missile 
would fit those requirements.
    Senator Cotton. Okay. So is it your best military advice 
that we continue developing this nuclear-capable sea-launched 
cruise missile?
    Admiral Richard. Senator, yes.
    Senator Cotton. So you agree in that regard with Chairman 
Milley and General Wolters' testimony?
    Admiral Richard. Yes, sir.
    Senator Cotton. Okay.
    Admiral Grady, you just heard Admiral Richard's testimony. 
Is it your best military advice that we continue with the sea-
launched cruise missile with nuclear capabilities as well?
    Admiral Grady. Senator, it is.
    Senator Cotton. Okay.
    Admiral Richard, given that Russia's arsenal already 
exceeds ours and that China's arsenal is rapidly growing, if we 
keep our plans exactly the same as they are today will the 
STRATCOM commander who comes after you in 8 years, 2030, have a 
force that is capable of deterring both Russia and China?
    Admiral Richard. That is the number one question that we 
need to ask ourselves as this moves forward.
    Senator Cotton. That is why I asked you.
    Admiral Richard. What we have is the absolute minimum. It 
depends on the trajectory of where this goes, and we will not 
be able to do it with the same level of risk that we are 
carrying today if we do not ask that question.
    Senator Cotton. Churchill said, in his Iron Curtain speech, 
that you should not engage in temptations in a trial of 
strength by merely exceeding your adversary by a small amount 
in military power. Do you agree with Churchill's recommendation 
that you do not encourage trials of strength?
    Admiral Richard. I do, but I would also point out, look, it 
is not necessary to match your opponent weapon-to-weapon. We 
have a good strategy. You have to have sufficient capability to 
execute that strategy as the threat changes, and that is the 
question. The triad is the minimum. We are going to have to ask 
that question going into the future to execute the strategy.
    Senator Cotton. How many road-mobile and rail-mobile 
missiles does Russia have?
    Admiral Richard. Senator, I need to give you that answer in 
a classified forum.
    Senator Cotton. Let me ask you this. Do they have road-
mobile and rail-mobile missiles?
    Admiral Richard. They have road-mobile missiles, yes.
    Senator Cotton. Okay. What about China?
    Admiral Richard. China has a significant number of road-
mobile missiles.
    Senator Cotton. Okay. How many road-mobile and rail-mobile 
missiles does the United States have?
    Admiral Richard. We do not have any.
    Senator Cotton. Oh, we do not have any at all?
    Admiral Richard. No, sir.
    Senator Cotton. So that is yet another capacity that we 
have refrained from developing over the years, for justifiable 
reasons, I understand. My point is that we cannot simply decide 
to disarm unilaterally on all these different domains, like a 
sea-launched cruise missile or other non-strategic or tactical 
or battlefield weapons, however you want to phrase them.
    Admiral Richard, one final question. So I am pleased to see 
that once again the force is in favor of modernizing our triad, 
which, as you say, is the absolute minimum, have succeeded 
against the efforts of the Far Left to defund them. I do worry 
about some potential single points of failure on these 
modernization programs, though, and the operational impacts 
that could occur from any delays. Could you share your thoughts 
on this risk and how to avoid it?
    Admiral Richard. First, Senator, what I want to offer is 
three STRATCOM commanders in a row have come here and said we 
have no margin. We do not have any operational margin left. We 
used that operational margin to delay the recapitalization as 
long as we have. What is left inside your triad is its inherent 
ability to hedge between legs, inter-leg hedging. That 
capability is there for operational, technical, and 
geopolitical risk. It was not placed in our triad for 
programmatic convenience.
    I recommend that we maintain that hedge for the purpose it 
was designed for, and we start asking the question, what is it 
going to take to get this recapitalization done on time, 
because I have very little ability operationally to mitigate 
delays.
    Senator Cotton. All right. Thank you all for your very 
important work on the Nuclear Weapons Council.
    Senator Reed. Thank you, Senator Cotton.
    Senator Rosen, you are recognized, and if Senator King does 
not appear at the conclusion of your comments could you 
recognize Senator Rounds, on behalf of the chair? Thank you.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you all for being 
here today and for all your work and your service to our 
country. I really appreciate it.
    I am going to talk a little bit about the Nevada Test Site. 
I am going to keep calling it the Nevada Test Site. It is a lot 
easier than the Nevada National Security Site, NNSS. It is a 
little easier to say that.
    You know, it was ground zero for the majority of our 
country's explosive nuclear testing between 1945 and 1992 with 
100 atmospheric tests and 828 underground tests being conducted 
at the site. As someone who lived in Nevada when our nation 
conducted the last explosive testing that shook the ground--the 
whole ground would shake, all around Las Vegas on those first 
Saturdays of the month when they would do them--I am strongly, 
more than strongly opposed to the resumption of explosive 
nuclear testing in our state.
    So today the site oversees the Stockpile Stewardship 
Program, principally, as we know it, the U1a facility and 
underground laboratory where scientists conduct subcritical 
experiments to verify the reliability and effectiveness of our 
nuclear stockpile.
    Administrator Hruby, I know we have spoken about this, just 
for the record. In your professional opinion do you agree that 
there is not a current or foreseeable need for the United 
States to resume explosive nuclear testing that produces 
nuclear yields?
    Ms. Hruby. Yes, Senator Rosen, I do. And I would just go 
further to say our entire Stockpile Stewardship Program is 
designed around the principal that we will make sure we 
understand weapons enough so that we do not have to test.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. And I want to build a little bit 
again on our discussion last week about U1a advancements, and 
how will the U1a upgrades, the upgrades to the complex, improve 
the Stockpile Stewardship Program so that, honestly, we will 
never have to return to those days of explosive nuclear weapons 
testing?
    Ms. Hruby. Yeah, thank you, Senator, for the question. The 
U1a complex at the Nevada Test Site--I will follow your lead--
is the tunnel complex where we do subcritical tests to study 
the science, and we are investing significantly in upgrading 
the infrastructure in that tunnel complex as well as new 
experimental capabilities in the Enhanced Capabilities for 
Subcritical Experiments project. And with that, when we are 
able to do those experiments, we will be able to use weapon-
relevant geometries and materials to study the implosion of a 
pit that will allow us to have even better models and assess 
the stockpile so that we do not have to test.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I am going to ask one more 
question on this to you, Administrator Hruby. The Nuclear 
Weapons Council is required to report regularly to the 
President regarding the safety and reliability of the U.S. 
stockpile and to provide an annual recommendation on the need 
to resume underground nuclear explosive testing, like we are 
talking about, to preserve the credibility of the U.S. nuclear 
deterrent.
    And so I am going to ask you, Administrator Hruby and 
Secretary LaPlante, what is the position of the council on 
renewed explosive testing, for the record?
    Ms. Hruby. As you rightly state, the three NNSA lab 
directors are required by law to assess the safety and 
reliability and performance of our stockpile, and to 
specifically address whether or not we need testing at this 
time. And to date the statements have been clear that testing 
is not needed.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. Mr. LaPlante?
    Mr. LaPlante. And I would just add, my understanding, 
again, the Nuclear Weapons Council agreed with that assessment 
and that testing at this time is not needed.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I appreciate that.
    I am just going to ask quickly, the fiscal year 2021 NDAA 
included a provision to ensure that the Nuclear Weapons Council 
has an opportunity to review the test site budget early enough 
so it can determine whether the budget adequately supports DOD 
requirements. It requires the Secretary of Energy to submit the 
proposed budget to the council prior to submitting it to OMB 
[Office of Management and Budget].
    And so, Administrator Hruby, last question. I am sorry, if 
you can answer quickly. Has this new review process had any 
impacts on the budgets to modernize and recapitalize the test 
site infrastructure?
    Ms. Hruby. I do not believe so. I have only done the 
process once, and in this process the Nuclear Weapons Council 
assessed that the DOE budget for the test site was adequate.
    Senator Rosen. All right. Well maybe we can talk offline a 
little bit more about that. Thank you very much, and let's see, 
Senator King. Oh no, Senator Rounds, I believe.
    Senator King. [Presiding.] Senator Rounds is next.
    Senator Rosen. Senator Rounds.
    Senator Rounds. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Admiral Richard, well, first of all let me just say thank 
you to all of you for your service to our country, and I think 
it is very special that the entire council be here today. This 
is a very special opportunity for us.
    Admiral Richard, in August of 2021, at the Space and 
Missile Defense Symposium, you described China's explosive 
growth and modernization of its nuclear and conventional forces 
as breathtaking. You went on to caution, ``Make no mistake. 
China's strategic breakout is cause for action,'' and that we 
need to understand what we are up against. And I would like to 
just have you share with us, or to describe in plain and as 
simple English as we can get to, as I call it, third-grade 
level here, as the USSTRATCOM commander, what it is that we are 
up against so that the American people clearly understand how 
grave this threat truly is, and to assure that we continue to 
pace this growing threat with our own capabilities for 
ourselves and our allies. Could you also speak to how 
imperative it is that we do the threat-to-capability need 
reviews on a more continuing basis?
    Admiral Richard. Senator, let me start by trying to 
characterize the speed this way. When I first testified 2 years 
ago the great debate was whether China was going to double its 
stockpile by the end of the decade. That has already happened 
while I have been the commander of U.S. Strategic Command. 
Details that you would like to have, the biggest and most 
visible one is the expansion from 0 to at least 360 solid-field 
intercontinental ballistic missile silos. Significant growth, 
and this has occurred over the course of just a few years. 
Double number of road-mobile missiles.
    China now has a true air leg, nuclear capable with their H-
6N bombers and an air-launched ballistic missile. They are not 
capable of continuous at-sea deterrent patrols with their Jin-
class submarines from protected bastion in the South China Sea, 
and more are coming. They have a true nuclear command and 
control system. They are building a warning system. They aspire 
to launch under warning launch, under attack capability. They 
have raised the readiness of their forces. They have a 
substantial number of theater-range systems, many of which are 
nuclear, which have no role in a true minimum-deterrent, no-
first-use policy.
    They are changing their command and control, and this is 
before we even get into the novel weapon systems. The most 
public one of those was the Fractional Orbital Bombardment 
System that has an unlimited range, can attack from any azimuth 
and comes down in a hypersonic glide vehicle with great 
performance. No nation in history has ever demonstrated that 
capability.
    And, Senator, the rest of the details are actually in my 
written posture statement, but that is why I describe this as--
this is easily the biggest expansion in China's history and 
rivals the biggest expansion of any nation in history, 
including us and the Soviet Union back in the early '60s.
    Senator Rounds. And just for the record, they are 
continuing to produce nuclear weapons to fill these expected 
weapon systems at an ongoing and very rapid rate. I do not know 
if we can talk about how quick it is, but it is at a very 
significant rate. Correct?
    Admiral Richard. Senator, yes. The bottom line, what I have 
directed my staff at STRATCOM to do--and you are right, the 
details are classified--whatever the intelligence community 
tells you about what China is going to do, divide it by 2 in 
time and you will probably be closer to what happens.
    Senator Rounds. Thank you, Admiral.
    Administrator Hruby, this is the lead-in to the question 
that I would have for you regarding our ability just to produce 
plutonium pits. Earlier you mentioned that we are not going to 
make the 80 pits per year goal by 2030, which is what the 
statutory requirement is. If we are not going to, and 
recognizing, not even what all of our near-peer competitors are 
doing but just what China alone is doing, it would seem to me 
if we are not even going to make this number, what is our Plan 
B?
    Ms. Hruby. Thank you, Senator, for that question, and we 
are actively working this in the Nuclear Weapons Council right 
now, is what can we do to have a safe, secure, reliable, and 
effective stockpile in light of what we think we can 
practically do in terms of making pits? We will look at that 
carefully. There may be options, but we are in the middle of 
that study.
    I just want to remind you that we are making new pits 
because we are concerned about pit aging. We do not want to put 
old pits in new weapons if we think, in the 30 years those 
weapons will be in the stockpile they may have aging problems. 
But we do not know for sure that they will have aging problems 
because that is a science problem that is very difficult and 
that we are studying at NNSA.
    Senator Rounds. If I could, what you have suggested then--
and I am out of time, but I would just say, one of the options 
for Plan B is that we either rejuvenate or we continue to use 
existing pits that already have in inventory.
    Ms. Hruby. Right. We reuse pits.
    Senator Rounds. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I am out of time. 
Thank you.
    Senator King. Thank you, Senator Rounds. Senator Warren.
    Senator Warren. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    So it is no secret that I think our nuclear modernization 
program is unsustainable and dangerous. I wanted to see 
significantly less emphasis on nuclear weapons in the National 
Defense Strategy but the Biden administration made the right 
call in cancelling the sea-launched cruise missile, known as 
the SLCM, or ``slick-em.'' A low-yield nuclear weapon launch 
from ships duplicates capabilities we already have and 
undermines the Navy's conventional mission.
    Even after eliminating this missile, however, our nuclear 
modernization program is still incredibly expensive. The 
Congressional Budget Office estimated that it would cost $1.7 
trillion, and I suspect we are going to find out that that 
estimate, once again, is far too low. But we have been hearing 
a tremendous amount today from my Republican colleagues who 
somehow think we are still spending too little on nuclear 
weapons and the process of producing them.
    So let's just see if we can clear something up. Admiral 
Richard, we have discussed this before, but to confirm again, 
was Strategic Command fully consulted and able to fully 
participate in the Nuclear Posture Review process?
    Admiral Richard. Senator, as far as the process inside the 
Department of Defense, yes. And I will also point out Ukraine 
and the crisis that we are in happened after the Nuclear 
Posture Review.
    Senator Warren. All right. But you were part of this while 
review, right?
    Admiral Richard. I was, Senator.
    Senator Warren. And I know that we have to make tough 
calls, especially to make sure that nuclear weapon spending 
does not cannibalize our conventional capabilities. The Navy 
said that pursuing SLCM would be, quote/unquote, ``cost 
prohibitive.'' That is the description from the Navy. Our 
nuclear weapons modernization plans include constructing new 
plutonium pits, which produce the radioactive raw material we 
need for nuclear weapons. I remain concerned about the costs 
and the risks in the pit production program, which is already 
far behind schedule and far over budget.
    So Administrator Hruby, both Admiral Richard and your 
deputy have told this committee that throwing more money at 
this problem is not going to get us to our original goal of 80 
pits per year by 2030. The Nuclear Weapons Council has also 
concluded that additional funding simply will not get us there.
    So, Administrator Hruby, despite the fact that more money 
will not solve the fundamental flaws in this program, your 
unfunded priorities list, the wish list that you submit to 
Congress on top of your $21.4 billion budget request, includes 
an additional $500 million more dollars for pit production. Is 
that correct?
    Ms. Hruby. It is.
    Senator Warren. So, Administrator Hruby, when you were 
before this committee last week you could not even tell us how 
much the pit production program would cost. So why should 
taxpayers be throwing an extra $500 million on top of a program 
that you do not even have a cost estimate for?
    Ms. Hruby. Yes, Senator Warren. We are in the process of 
doing the design so that we can have a credible cost and 
schedule estimate. That design will be complete in early 2024. 
We do know, however, based on other construction projects that 
we are currently doing that some items that will be needed in 
the pit production facility, like nuclear-qualified piping and 
glove boxes, are taking a very long time to buy. So the request 
for additional monies has to do with procuring some of the 
long-lead items that we will need so that when our design is 
complete we can do construction at the fastest possible pace.
    Senator Warren. You know, I just have to say it was your 
opening line there, when you said, yourself, just now that you 
do not have a credible estimate, and you are hoping to have a 
credible estimate at some point in the future. I have got to 
say, I am really unhappy to have to tell taxpayers that you get 
a half a billion dollars on something for which you do not have 
a credible estimate yet on what you are going to need, because 
the credible estimate actually may guide whether or not we 
decide to do this program and how we do this program. So 
saying, well, go ahead and throw and extra half billion in 
right now just in case is troubling.
    Now look, I realize I am out of time. Dr. LaPlante, I am 
going to submit some questions for the record for you on where 
you see the most programmatic risk for the Department in this. 
We can just go back and forth over that when we are not on the 
clock.
    You know, we are talking about spending trillions of 
dollars, and the American people truly, they want to spend what 
it takes to keep us safe. But when you cannot answer basic 
questions about these programs it does not inspire much 
confidence that this is the number that we should be 
supporting.
    So thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator King. Thank you, Senator. We are going to have a 
short second round for those of us who are wishing to follow 
up.
    Secretary LaPlante, give me an assessment of where the GBSD 
program is. Are we on budget, on schedule? This is a big, new 
project, and we do not want surprises. So how do you feel about 
where that project stands right now?
    Mr. LaPlante. Senator, I will start with a caveat that I am 
doing a deep dive in the program probably in the next 1 to 2 
weeks. The last time I did any bit of a deep dive, I would say 
as a citizen, whatever I was, was about 2 years, when I asked 
to look at it. So every impression I am going to give you is 
what I sent----
    Senator King. But when you finish that process I hope you 
will inform the committee.
    Mr. LaPlante. I will. I will. And what I will just say, as 
you know, they are somewhat early, 1 to 2 years, into 
engineering and manufacturing development (EMD), try to get to 
a first flight. I would say of the three legs and where they 
are in their EMD, they are the earliest along, so that means 
there still is significant risks. What are the risk areas? The 
risk areas are rad-hard electronics. The risk areas are the 
infrastructure and all the rest of it. And I intend to look 
into it, and I will give you that assessment of where that is. 
I am going to do a deep dive on all three of the legs, but I am 
starting with GBSD.
    Senator King. I would appreciate having that as soon as you 
have it available.
    Mr. LaPlante. Yes. Thank you.
    Senator King. As part of this hearing I would like to 
submit for the record a chart that has been prepared by staff 
that tracks the financial history of the nuclear enterprise.
    [The information referred to follows:]
    GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
    
    
    
    Senator King. In 1962, the total triad expense was 17 
percent of the defense budget. In 1984, it was 10 percent. 
Before the modernization program that started a few years ago 
it was about 2.7 percent of the defense budget, and when you 
add the recapitalization of the triad and of the nuclear 
facilities, and that includes the Columbia-class submarines, 
the B-21, and the GBSD, you get to about 6.4 percent of the 
defense budget.
    So I think it is important to keep these figures in 
perspective in terms of this is the bedrock basis of our 
strategy to defend this country we are still way below what it 
was 50 years ago, way below what it was 40 years ago, and a 
relatively modest percentage of the overall defense budget, 
that does not mean it is still not a lot of money, and I 
understand Senator Warren's questions. Taxpayers are being 
asked to pay this money and it is our responsibility to be sure 
that it is used well and effectively.
    But I think the recapitalization is sort of skewing this 
discussion. I refer to it as the pig in the budget python. It 
is a very large expenditure that we are going to have to cover 
over a few years, frankly in part because we have put off that 
expenditure for a number of years and we are having to do all 
three legs of the triad at once. So I think that is an 
important perspective to have on the record of this hearing.
    A final question, and Administrator Hruby, I think this may 
be to you, although if others have an answer. It is a little 
puzzling to me. Apparently China is expressing no interest 
whatsoever in any arms control, nonproliferation, even 
discussing it. They are just racing toward a very significant, 
and I suspect for them an expensive nuclear enterprise. Why is 
that? Why can we not engage them in some mutual discussions 
that would assist both countries? And, of course, once we get 
through what is going on now, re-engage with Russia on these 
issues, nonproliferation is in everyone's interest, it seems to 
me, and cutting the expense of these programs is what led to 
the agreements 20 years ago.
    Ms. Hruby. Senator King, your inclination on this is the 
same as mine. First, let me just say it is the primary 
responsibility of the State Department to engage in those 
dialogues. The NNSA brings to those discussions a potential for 
technical collaboration, which worked in the past with Russian 
scientists and potentially could work with the Chinese, and 
certainly offer that we would be willing to engage in good 
technical dialogue and discussion to the extent that it could 
help strategic stability.
    Senator King. Thank you. For the record, could you give me 
your thoughts to the question that I asked Senator Richard 
about deterrence of a non-state actor, because that is really a 
proliferation question? It may be that if deterrence does not 
work we have to fall back on keeping this material out of their 
hands in the first place, and I would like your thoughts on 
that, for the record, for Administrator Hruby.
    Ms. Hruby. I would be happy to.
    Senator King. Thank you. Senator Fischer.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I just want 
to thank all of you once again for being here today for this 
extremely important hearing that we are having.
    Administrator Hruby, last year the Nuclear Weapons Council 
noted significant concern about the long-term funding profile 
of NNSA's budget in a letter to this committee. And while this 
budget projects continued growth for next year, after that it 
would level off and then it would decline, which is exactly 
what the Nuclear Weapons Council warns against.
    Do you believe this level of funding is sufficient or will 
increases beyond what is projected in this budget be necessary 
in order to meet our modernization requirements?
    Ms. Hruby. Senator Fischer, thank you for that question. We 
will be looking at the FYNSP [Future Year Nuclear Security 
Plan] again in light of what we know now, what our requirements 
are as well as what our infrastructure needs are, and, in fact, 
we are just starting the fiscal year 2024 budget bill so will 
be doing that in great detail.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you.
    Dr. LaPlante, does the Nuclear Weapons Council remain 
concerned about the out-year budget for NNSA and continue to 
believe that low or no growth, quote, ``will not provide a 
sound foundation for the planned capabilities and capacities 
needed to meet current and future requirements,'' end quote?
    Mr. LaPlante. Senator, thanks for the question. The Nuclear 
Weapons Council, my understanding, again, did the deep-dive 
review of the 2023 budget, and that is the letter that I sent 
over on the 22nd. I believe, you know, as the 2024 budget 
starts to be built we are going to be brought in and do the 
same thing again, and we will comment on whether we have 
concerns, just as we showed, as the law provides. Thank you.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you very much. I understand that 
Senator Reed discussed the plutonium pit production and NNSA's 
request for additional funding, but Administrator Hruby, your 
unfunded priorities, which have been referenced here, the 
letter indicates the request contains $500 million shortfall in 
funding for pit production. I appreciate you making the 
committee aware of this and your clear testimony that these 
additional resources would help minimize any delay in achieving 
the target of 80 pits per year.
    I would like to ask the rest of the panel their views on 
this. Do the members of the Nuclear Weapons Council agree these 
funds are necessary and believe it is critical to achieve full 
production as close to 2030 as possible? Secretary LaPlante, 
let us start with you.
    Mr. LaPlante. Yeah, thank you. First is just as a formality 
that as the chair of the Nuclear Weapons Council we have not 
formally reviewed that, and we will, and we intend to do it in 
the next couple of weeks and we will provide to you our 
assessment, as a council.
    Personal view, from the little that I have seen and 
discussed with the administrator, it appears, at least, for the 
three items that she has identified, and she talked about this 
earlier in this hearing, of long-lead items, they seem very 
sensible. And as we find, as the NNSA finds other things that 
are sensible to do I think we need to investigate them and not 
make it a static process. We should be asking for these ideas 
all the time.
    I defer to my colleagues for the rest of their reviews.
    Senator Fischer. Madam Secretary, did you have a comment on 
this?
    Ms. Shyu. We first heard about this at yesterday's Nuclear 
Weapons Council meeting.
    Senator Fischer. A little closer to the mic.
    Ms. Shyu. Sorry. How about this?
    Senator Fischer. Very good.
    Ms. Shyu. So we first heard about this detail yesterday at 
the Nuclear Weapons Council, and certainly what Administrator 
Hruby talked about made a lot of sense. There are long-lead 
items you need to buy when you do construction so you do not 
stop the construction, wait for the long-lead item. So we are 
eager to take a look at the details of this in the coming 
weeks, just as Dr. LaPlante mentioned.
    Senator Fischer. Great. Thank you. Secretary Plumb?
    Mr. Plumb. Yes, Senator. I just echo the same comments 
Secretary LaPlante and Secretary Shyu have made, which is we 
are eager to lean forward. We would all like to kind of look at 
it, I think, now that NSA [National Security Agency] has got 
some good fidelity, on what that approach should be, I think we 
are all inclined to. Yes, but we would like to get back to you.
    Senator Fischer. Do you agree with the goal of what was 
presented, or do you agree that you have to minimize the delay?
    Mr. Plumb. The goal--I think we are on the same page with 
the goal--is to get to 80 pits per year as close to 2030 as 
possible, so if we can find a way to do it. And I think the 
argument that I understand it is some of these procurement 
items, it is kind of that keeping a line going. So we want to 
keep the line going so we do not have to restart it.
    Senator Fischer. Keep moving forward.
    Mr. Plumb. Yes, ma'am.
    Senator Fischer. So keep moving forward and do not shorten 
a big delay.
    Mr. Plumb. And do not add additional delay by not 
procuring, I think is a specific concern to the acquisition 
community.
    Senator Fischer. Good. Admiral Grady?
    Admiral Grady. Yes, ma'am. The military requirement is 
clear, 80 pits per year as soon as possible. If not by 2030, 
then as soon as possible after that. I am looking forward to 
reviewing the director's proposals and helping the Nuclear 
Weapons Council decide whether this is the right way forward. 
But the military requirement is absolutely clear.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you. Admiral Richard, anything to 
add?
    Admiral Richard. I would add, STRATCOM supports this or any 
other measure that NNSA can execute that minimizes the delay 
and ultimately reduce the operational risk that I am going to 
have to carry because we cannot meet the requirement.
    Senator Fischer. And I would assume the operational risks 
need to be discussed in classified?
    Admiral Richard. They will. And, in fact, they will be 
discussed as part of the Nuclear Weapons Council deliberations.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator King. Senator Rounds.
    Senator Rounds. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think my 
colleague, Senator Warren, has asked a question but I am not 
sure we have had the opportunity for a good response. I would 
like to go into this a little bit, and Admiral Richard, I would 
begin with you, sir.
    Since you have been in the services, I do not believe that 
you have ever served at time in which we did not have a very 
strong and well-defined nuclear deterrent. Can you imagine a 
world today where the United States did not have a clearly 
recognized nuclear deterrent capability that helps to keep 
peace in the rest of the world?
    Admiral Richard. Senator, I cannot, and I think it is worth 
a second to explain why I say that.
    Senator Rounds. I think so.
    Admiral Richard. Nuclear deterrence is foundational to 
integrated deterrence because no other capability to date or 
combination of capabilities gets anywhere close to the 
destructive potential of nuclear. So if you do not set the 
foundation of your integrated deterrent when you are in a 
competition with another nuclear-capable opponent, if you 
cannot deter their vertical escalation everything else is 
useless to you.
    The reverse is also true. If you set that strong foundation 
then using every military and other instrument of national 
power is actually very much to your benefit because it enables 
you to resolve conflict at the lowest possible level of 
violence. But there is a theoretical reason why we have to have 
a strong nuclear deterrent.
    Senator Rounds. See, I think sometimes because we live with 
it and we have always assumed that we are free because we are 
simply strong and economically power, and the rest of the world 
simply does not have the desire to dominate us, that somehow 
that means that we do not need the nuclear deterrent that we 
carry today. And because we have not had a threat to the 
homeland since, really, 9/11, and that was not a nuclear 
threat, I think there is a misunderstanding that somehow there 
is no need for this nuclear deterrent anymore.
    And I think the message that you are sharing, one that says 
the reason that we have been able to maintain our freedom is 
because we have had a clearly recognized nuclear deterrent, but 
that also means that generation after generation we have to 
improve it and we have to keep up with our competition.
    If we had--and once again, I would defer, Admiral Richard, 
to you, but Admiral Grady, you are most certainly welcome to 
respond to this as well. Our adversaries have become better and 
better at, first of all, trying to defeat some of our nuclear 
capabilities and to defend basically not only against the 
nuclear but some of our conventional capabilities as well.
    Would it be fair to say that if you simply said one nuclear 
bomb or one nuclear missile or one nuclear long-range weapon 
dropped from a B-52 bomber, since we could that our enemies 
would fear us? Clearly it would not be the case, and clearly we 
have to have enough weapons and modernized enough to where we 
can get around, or at least make them think we have the 
capabilities of getting around them in order to maintain that 
deterrent, and that capability that they have is changing on a 
daily basis. Is that fair?
    Admiral Richard. Senator, yes it is.
    Admiral Grady. Senator, I would just comment that the 
number is interesting but it is the effect that that number 
generates, and that is that it gives the President many, many 
options across a broad range of contingencies, and that is what 
drives the number. There is strong analysis in math behind that 
number, and that is what we need to have that credible nuclear 
deterrent that you and Admiral Richard have been talking about.
    Senator Rounds. Admiral Grady, I think you need to lay that 
out in a little bit more explainable terms to the American 
public and to this committee. What do you mean by that when you 
say that when you have the deterrent, the Trident, that you 
have multiple options available for the President of the United 
States in order to keep peace? What do you mean by that?
    Admiral Grady. Chaz, I think I will defer to you on that 
one.
    Admiral Richard. What you want to be able to do is offer 
the President any number of ways at which he might be able to 
create an effect that will change the opponent's decision 
calculus and get them to refrain or otherwise seek negotiation 
vice continued hostility. So ballistic versus non-ballistic. Do 
you want it visible? Do you want it not visible? Do you want it 
prompt? Do you want it to come in a long period of time? Each 
of those is very situational specific.
    My recommendation on the SLCM-N, for example, is not an 
effort to relitigate the Nuclear Posture Review. It is based on 
the conditions we find ourselves in today, when I look at what 
I am able to offer to the President, and ask myself what would 
do a better job, lower the risk, give us more confidence in our 
deterrent capability. that is where that recommendation comes 
from. It is a specific example of the broader. That is why you 
want a lot of options, Senator.
    Senator Rounds. And one last question. Admiral Grady, do 
you think Russia would have invaded Ukraine today if Ukraine 
was a nuclear capability, if they had a nuclear capability?
    Admiral Grady. I think they would have had many, many 
second thoughts about that as an option for them if they were 
facing a nuclear-armed adversary.
    Senator Rounds. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator King. Thank you, Senator Rounds.
    I want to thank each and every one of you for your 
dedication to the country, for your sober-minded approach to 
these very difficult issues, for the work that you put in on 
behalf of the public, often in quiet and unsung ways. And I 
want you to know that we recognize what are contributing to the 
defense of this country.
    The irony of nuclear weapons is that the reason we have 
them is that we never want to use them, and the best way to 
ensure that we never use them is to have them, and to have 
those who would commit aggression understand that this is 
something that has to be, as the admiral said, part of their 
decision-making calculus. Evil exists in the world, and we have 
to be prepared to defend ourselves and our allies. The work 
that you are doing is contributing mightily to that end.
    So I want to thank you again for your testimony today, 
thank you for appearing before the committee.
    Senator Fischer, did you have a closing statement you would 
like to make? No.
    Again, thank you, and this hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 6:00 p.m., the Subommittee adjourned.]

    [Questions for the record with answers supplied follow:]

           Questions Submitted by Senator Elizabeth A. Warren
                             pit production
    1. Senator Warren. Administrator Hruby, what is the current 
estimated cost of pit production over the next 30 years?
    Administrator Hruby. The answer has two parts: (1) estimated cost 
for design, construction, and equipment for the facilities, and (2) 
estimated cost for operating the facilities out to the 30-year mark. 
For design, construction, and equipment, the preliminary cost estimate 
ranges from the ``Critical Decision (CD)-1'' (Approve Alternative 
Selection and Cost Range) stage, were $2.7 billion--$3.9 billion for 
the Los Alamos Plutonium Pit Production Project (LAP4) and $6.9 
billion--$11.1 billion for the Savannah River Plutonium Processing 
Facility (SRPPF). Cost estimates will depend on facility and equipment 
designs, which have not yet reached 90 percent completion. We will 
provide estimates of the costs of operating these facilities after 
designs are 90 percent complete in fiscal year 2024. Costs associated 
with ongoing production and certification activities and the 
installation of equipment to restore Los Alamos' ability to produce 10 
pits per year are reflected in the Plutonium Modernization program.

    2. Senator Warren. Administrator Hruby, when does the National 
Nuclear Security Administration expect to release updated estimates of 
pit production costs?
    Administrator Hruby. We will be able to provide updated cost 
estimates with reasonable fidelity once design is 90 percent complete 
for LAP4 and SRPPF, which is scheduled to occur in fiscal year 2024 for 
both projects.

    3. Senator Warren. Administrator Hruby, the fiscal year 2020 
National Nuclear Security Administration Congressional budget request 
stated that new pits will be ``W87-like.'' Does that indicate that 
future pits will be heavily modified? If so, what work has NNSA done to 
ensure their reliability?
    Administrator Hruby. Current and future modernization plans include 
pit types based on previously tested and certified designs, with well-
understood modifications that provide key advantages (such as easier 
manufacturing, for example). Discussion of specific modifications can 
be provided in a classified setting. NNSA has done a great deal of 
science-based stockpile stewardship work during the past three decades 
to underpin justified confidence in the reliability of warheads that 
include these designs. The pit production capability being established 
in NNSA must be capable of making pits other than the W87.

    4. Senator Warren. Administrator. Hruby, Mr. LaPlante, is future 
pit production scheduled to maintain the safety and reliability of the 
existing nuclear weapons stockpile? Why not if so?
    Administrator Hruby. Pit production will allow us to maintain the 
high reliability of our nuclear weapons stockpile while improving 
safety and security as needed. Establishing required pit production 
capacity as close as possible to 2030 remains a high priority. The 
later this capability becomes available, the more we will be pushed 
toward returning old pits to the stockpile instead of newly 
manufactured pits. The pit production capability will provide 
deliberate replacement of older existing plutonium pits with newly 
manufactured pits as risk mitigation against the potentially negative 
implications of plutonium aging.
    Mr. LaPlante. Through the annual assessment process, today's pits 
are continually assessed for safety and reliability. These assessments 
continue to indicate the pits meet all safety and reliability 
requirements. Future pit production is scheduled to replace today's 
pits to maintain and improve the safety, security, and reliability of 
the stockpile.

    5. Senator Warren. Administrator Hruby, Mr. LaPlante the costs of 
pit production are not included in the cost estimates for the W87-1 
warhead. This is a key component of nuclear weapons and requisite for 
the detonation of a warhead. Why do cost estimates for the W87-1 
warhead not include pit production costs?
    Administrator Hruby. The cost of producing pits per unit is 
included in our W87-1 cost estimates, but the costs to restore the 
Nation's ability to produce 80 pits per year are calculated separately 
since these investments are required for future systems as well, not 
just the W87-1. NNSA's cost estimates for the W87-1 Modification 
Program are being updated as the program enters Phase 6.3 this summer. 
This will include an Independent Cost Estimate and a Weapons Design 
Cost Report to inform NNSA's overall cost estimate for the program.
    Mr. LaPlante. As the Nuclear Weapons Council Chair, my 
understanding indicates that pit production is a capability necessary 
across the stockpile, and, therefore, is not tied to a budget line of 
one warhead.

    6. Senator Warren. Administrator Hruby, Mr. LaPlante, will the W93 
require a new plutonium pit?
    Administrator Hruby. A decision has not yet been made on the type 
of pit that will be used in the W93. The decision will be influenced by 
the schedule for achieving pit-production capabilities, as this 
schedule becomes better known from the increasing maturity of facility 
design and the evolution of funding profiles. Additional information 
related to W93 plans can be provided in a classified setting.
    Mr. LaPlante. The Nuclear Weapons Council is planning for all 
warheads to contain new plutonium pits, beginning with the W87-1. 
However, given the shortfalls in meeting pit production requirements, 
the NWC is reviewing and assessing the requirements demand and 
determining where we prioritize new pits, what schedule adjustments can 
be made, and where we can accept a reused pit in a program and the 
implications for each option.

    7. Senator Warren. Administrator Hruby, can you provide some 
details as to why it will take several years to produce such a more 
detailed plan on achieving 80 pits per year when it was requested by 
Congress two years ago, if not longer?
    Administrator Hruby. Design and construction of nuclear facilities 
for pit production is a complex process, partly because these one-of-a-
kind facilities must be designed and built to operate reliably for many 
decades while meeting safety, security, and environmental requirements 
and achieve a high confidence capability to produce pits qualified to 
military specifications. Design efforts at both the Los Alamos National 
Laboratory and Savannah River Site are progressing. NNSA previously 
communicated information resulting from Critical Decision (CD)-1 for 
both LAP4 and SRPPF to Congress. As these projects reach CD-2, Approve 
Performance Baseline, NNSA will proactively provide Congress with 
updated information based on the 90 percent design for both of these 
one-of-a-kind facilities.

    8. Senator Warren. Administrator Hruby and Admiral Richard, when 
can we expect reporting on the impact on the stockpile if the NNSA 
cannot meet the 80 pit per year goal in a reasonable time?
    Administrator Hruby. NNSA remains committed to identifying 
acceleration pathways to achieve the required pit production rates as 
close to 2030 as possible. NNSA is working with subject matter experts 
from across the nuclear security enterprise to identify acceleration 
options and associated risk mitigation. Pit production rates of 80 pits 
per year will require construction and a reliable production process to 
produce certified pits to be established.
    Per direction in House Report 116-449, accompanying the 
Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2021 (P.L. 116-260) NNSA is required 
to provide an annual report on a contingency plan to meet the needs of 
the nuclear deterrent that did not solely rely on the current need 
dates for pit production. NNSA developed this plan in coordination with 
the Department of Defense and delivered the last report to Congress in 
December 2021. The Nuclear Weapons Council continues to evaluate and 
increase fidelity of schedule options.
    Admiral Richard. In addition to the NNSA Pit Production Contingency 
Plans required by the 2021 Consolidated Appropriations Act provided to 
Congress in December 2021, the Atomic Energy Act (50 U.S.C. 2525), as 
amended by fiscal year 2016 NDAA, also requires the CDRUSSTRATCOM to 
submit to the SECDEF an annual assessment of the safety, security, 
reliability, and military effectiveness of the Nation's nuclear weapons 
stockpile NLT 1 Dec. I expect the fiscal year 2022 assessment will 
address the operational implications, risks, and/or impacts on military 
effectiveness of failing to meet the statutory 80 PPY by 2030 
requirement. The President subsequently provides this assessment to 
Congress no later than 15 March of the following year.
                                  slcm
    9. Senator Warren. Admiral Richard you have suggested the proposed 
new SLCM-N is desirable because it would be a ``low-yield, non-
ballistic capability that does not require visible generation.'' Do you 
think our adversaries will interpret this as the United States seeking 
an undetectable first strike capability?
    Admiral Richard. While I hesitate to speculate exactly how our 
adversaries will interpret it, I do not think they will see it as a 
first strike capability. The 2018 Nuclear Posture Review was clear that 
this capability was meant to address the perception that an adversary 
might have regarding the feasibility or an advantage in using a limited 
number of nuclear weapons in a conflict. That is, to address a 
potential deterrence and assurance gap.
    The situation in Ukraine and China's nuclear trajectory convinces 
me that a deterrence and assurance gap exists. To address this gap, a 
low-yield, non-ballistic capability to deter and respond without 
visible generation is necessary to provide a persistent, survivable, 
regional capability to deter adversaries, assure Allies, provide 
flexible options, as well as complement existing capabilities. Such a 
capability with these attributes should be re-examined in the near 
future.
    The United States deployed the Tomahawk Land-Attack Missile-Nuclear 
(TLAM-N) for 25 years before it was retired. We have no indications 
that deploying this system was perceived as an effort to seek an 
undetectable first strike capability.

    10. Senator Warren. Assistant Secretary Plumb, how will the 
presence of nuclear-armed missiles on submarines affect the ability of 
U.S. submarines to pass through allied countries waters or visit their 
ports?
    Assistant Secretary Plumb. It is the policy of the United States to 
neither confirm nor deny nuclear weapons onboard any individual U.S. 
submarine. If a new sea launched nuclear cruise missile was developed 
and deployed on US fast attack submarines, some coastal Allies or 
partners might choose to deny port access to all US fast attack 
submarines due to the potential for nuclear weapons being onboard. We 
respect the sovereign rights of our allies and partners.
                                  gbsd
    11. Senator Warren. Secretary LaPlante, what issues do you expect 
to address in your deep dive of the GBSD program?
    Mr. LaPlante. Modernizing the delivery systems that compose the 
nuclear Triad remains a top acquisition priority of the Department of 
Defense. I recently began conducting deep-dive reviews of all three 
legs of the Triad. I completed my review of the Sentinel program, 
formerly the Ground Based Strategic Deterrent, on May 16, 2022. The 
review addressed requirements, schedule, performance, cost, and risk. 
It demonstrated that Sentinel is a complex program executing to an 
aggressive schedule. The Air Force is actively mitigating risk, but 
little to no margin exists. My team and I will remain closely engaged 
as the program progresses with a focus on cost, schedule, and 
performance.

    12. Senator Warren. Secretary LaPlante, here do you see the 
greatest schedule, cost, and technical risks in our nuclear 
modernization plans?
    Mr. LaPlante. Schedule, cost, and technical risks associated with 
the nuclear modernization programs have my full attention. Following a 
series of deep dives of the nuclear modernization programs, I am 
focused on the concurrent execution of these programs. Nearly every 
system is beyond its designed service life, and must be modernized and 
delivered on time and on specification. This places significant 
pressure on the capacity of our industrial base, supply chains, 
workforce, and infrastructure. My team and I will continue to assess 
trends across the programs and work to mitigate risks. This is a once-
in-a-generation modernization, and it is imperative that these programs 
remain on track to ensure there is no gap in our ability to 
effectively, reliably, and credibly deter our adversaries and assure 
our Allies and partners.
                               __________
             Questions Submitted by Senator Dan S. Sullivan
                                 aukus
    13. Senator Sullivan. Secretary Hruby and Secretary Shyu, I 
understand that NNSA is currently involved in an 18-month study period 
regarding the optimal pathway to deliver nuclear propulsion technology 
to Australia as a part of the AUKUS agreement. The U.S. has only shared 
nuclear propulsion technology once before, with the United Kingdom. Our 
Naval Nuclear Propulsion Program is a model of excellence. The same can 
be said for the UK. How you are balancing the need to ensure the 
Australians have the same level of stewardship for their program, with 
the need to move out quickly on the terms of this agreement?
    Administrator Hruby. NNSA is part of a broad interagency and 
trilateral 18-month study period. Nuclear stewardship is a central 
element of the consultation period. The effort will intensively examine 
the full suite of requirements that underpin nuclear stewardship with a 
specific focus on the following areas: safety, design, construction, 
operation, maintenance, disposal, regulation, training, environmental 
protection, installations and infrastructure, industrial base capacity, 
workforce, and force structure.
    We continue to analyze multiple options to identify the optimal 
pathway for Australia to acquire a nuclear-powered submarine 
capability. However, since nuclear stewardship is such an important 
part of the culture and safety of operating this technology, a focus on 
stewardship will be foundational to every decision we make as we work 
to fulfill the objectives set forth by the AUKUS leaders.
    Secretary Shyu. Ms. Shyu respectfully defers to Administrator 
Hruby's response, as NNSA is best positioned to provide the answer.
                            nwc coordination
    14. Senator Sullivan. Secretary LaPlante, a recent GAO report 
released in January 2022 stated that while the DOD and NNSA generally 
have existing joint processes to manage and communicate risks at the 
level of individual programs (such as a warhead life extension 
program), the two agencies have not established a joint process to 
identify, assess, and respond to enterprise-level risks that may affect 
the mission across the strategic nuclear triad. How would you 
characterize the communication regarding enterprise-level risk 
assessment and decision making between members of the NWC?
    Mr. LaPlante. In my short tenure as chair of the Nuclear Weapons 
Council, I have found communication between the DoD and DOE/NNSA to be 
clear and transparent. Recently, the NWC discussed the need to 
implement a strategic framework for integrated decisionmaking, and we 
are actively working to mature that framework. Additionally, the 2022 
Nuclear Posture Review directed the DoD to develop and implement a risk 
mitigation and opportunity exploitation framework, designed to allow 
senior leaders to understand and act upon the interdependencies of our 
nuclear modernization programs. This framework will leverage the long-
standing practices and commitment of the Members of the Nuclear Weapons 
Council and the programs of the DOE/NNSA. I am confident that with 
these tools, the NWC will become even more effective.

    15. Senator Sullivan. Secretary LaPlante, what steps could be taken 
to improve coordination between the NNSA and DOD on the NWC?
    Mr. LaPlante. Coordination between the DoD and NNSA remains vital 
to the success of the NWC and the nuclear modernization programs across 
the enterprise, and my short tenure has indicated that while 
coordination is strong, steps could be taken to improve. I intend to 
continue to review the practices of the NWC and determine areas to 
strengthen our coordination.
                               __________
              Questions Submitted by Senator Angus S. King
                            non-state actors
    16. Senator King. Administrator Hruby and Admiral Richard, ``I 
would like to [know] something about how we deter, how do we deal with 
the risk of a proliferation of nuclear weapons to a terrorist, to 
nonstate actors, for whom the normal, the theory of deterrence does not 
really apply?'' (p. 28, lines 4-8)
    Administrator Hruby. The U.S. Government's approach to countering 
nuclear terrorism recognizes the difficulty of deterring non-state 
actors through the means traditionally used to deter hostile states, 
that is, threatening overwhelming reprisal in response to a nuclear 
attack.
    Consequently, the U.S. strategy for deterring nuclear terrorism 
features two central elements:

    1.  Convincing terrorists that the commodities needed to build an 
improvised nuclear device (IND)--chiefly nuclear material--are 
prohibitively difficult to obtain and that even if they were to acquire 
an IND, a nuclear attack against the United States would be 
unsuccessful for a variety of reasons. In particular, we attempt to 
persuade terrorists that any nuclear plot will be detected and 
disrupted, and that the outcome of a nuclear attack would feature less 
death, destruction, and terror than they desire.

    2.  Deterring foreign governments from providing support to would-
be nuclear terrorists, including by threatening military retaliation 
for facilitating an act of nuclear terrorism.
    Deterring Nuclear Terrorists

    The United States undertakes multiple efforts to (1) prevent non-
state actors from accessing nuclear material and (2) persuade them that 
acquiring a nuclear capability is difficult and the probability of a 
successful nuclear attack is low.
    The U.S. Government expends significant resources around the world 
consolidating, securing, and when possible, eliminating the nuclear 
materials necessary to construct an IND. To date NNSA has removed, 
eliminated, downblended, or confirmed the disposition of over 500,000 
kilograms of highly enriched uranium (HEU) and plutonium from 48 
countries and Taiwan. NNSA also works to prevent non-state actors from 
acquiring the expertise and equipment needed to assemble an IND through 
export controls and support to USG interdiction operations. 
Additionally, NNSA develops tools to detect nuclear proliferation 
networks. In addition to the intrinsic value of these programs, which 
have dramatically improved global nuclear security, a secondary benefit 
is to nurture the perception that nuclear materials are simply too 
difficult to acquire. This perception may, in turn, persuade terrorists 
to pursue less lethal attack modes.
    Additionally, the United States fields a variety of domestic and 
international defenses against nuclear terrorism and actively messages 
these capabilities in various media. For example, internationally the 
U.S. Government has installed radiation portal monitors at hundreds of 
points of entry and deployed hundreds of mobile and portable systems 
for radiation detection along trafficking routes, thereby complicating 
the ability of smugglers and terrorists to move nuclear material from 
its point of origin to the United States. At home, the U.S. Government 
also scans for radiation at airports, seaports, and other ports of 
entry. Additionally, NNSA's Nuclear Emergency Support Team (NEST) 
maintains capabilities to search for, interdict, characterize, and 
disable terrorist nuclear devices. As part of a conscious strategy to 
deter non-state actors from attempting a nuclear attack, NNSA 
consistently advertises that these assets are strategically pre-
positioned throughout the country to respond to nuclear incidents.

    Deterring State Support for Nuclear Terrorism

    The second pillar of the United States' deterrence strategy is to 
dissuade hostile foreign governments from providing nuclear material, 
equipment, and expertise to would-be nuclear terrorists, wittingly or 
unwittingly. This objective requires two parallel efforts: refining 
nuclear forensic capabilities to identify the source of material used 
in a nuclear device and telegraphing to hostile states the consequences 
of facilitating nuclear terrorism.
    NNSA invests substantial resources to advance its nuclear forensic 
tools to determine the provenance of nuclear material found outside of 
regulatory control. In concert with law enforcement and Intelligence 
Community capabilities, these scientific tools are part of a broader 
U.S. process to attribute responsibility for an act of nuclear 
terrorism. Like other U.S. defenses, the existence of nuclear forensic 
capabilities is actively messaged using a variety of media platforms. 
In addition to deterring hostile state actors, these capabilities may 
also induce foreign governments to strengthen their nuclear security 
practices, lest an inadvertent loss of material be perceived as an act 
of willful assistance to terrorists.
    In tandem with forensic tools, the United States has consistently 
issued declaratory policy stipulating the severe consequences that 
would result if a state enabled a terrorist nuclear attack. Successive 
Administrations' Nuclear Posture Review reports have expressly stated 
that the United States would hold accountable any actor who facilitated 
an act of nuclear terrorism, and similar language can be found in a 
variety of other public pronouncements by senior U.S. officials, 
military leaders, and lawmakers. Such messaging is intended to signal 
unmistakably the United States' resolve to retaliate in response to any 
state-supported act of nuclear terrorism.

    Conclusion

    Although deterrence of non-state actors and potential foreign 
patrons is merely one dimension of the United States' strategy to 
counter nuclear terrorism, these efforts represent an important element 
of the Nation's defense-in-depth against this enduring threat.
    Additional information on the U.S. Government's approach to 
deterring nuclear terrorism can be provided in a classified setting.
    Admiral Richard. [Deleted.]
    Within the Department of Defense, United States Special Operations 
Command has the primary responsibility for carrying out this strategy.