[Senate Hearing 117-956]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                        S. Hrg. 117-956

               THE HEALTH OF THE DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL BASE

=======================================================================





                                HEARING

                               before the

                      COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE


                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS




                             SECOND SESSION



                               __________

                             APRIL 26, 2022
                               __________





         Printed for the use of the Committee on Armed Services




                [GRAPHI(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]




                 Available via: http: //www.govinfo.gov
                                 ______

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

59-761 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025






























                      COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

                   JACK REED, Rhode Island, Chairman
JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire        JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma       
KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi         
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      DEB FISCHER, Nebraska          
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              TOM COTTON, Arkansas        
TIM KAINE, Virginia                  MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota      
ANGUS S. KING, Jr., Maine            JONI ERNST, Iowa         
ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      THOM TILLIS, North Carolina                 
GARY C. PETERS, Michigan             DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska            
JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia       KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota                                
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois            RICK SCOTT, Florida               
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee                            
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri                    
                                     TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama                                     
                    Elizabeth L. King, Staff Director
                 John D. Wason, Minority Staff Director

                                  (ii)






























                             C O N T E N T S
                                 
                               ----------

                             April 26, 2022

                                                                   Page

The Health of the Defense Industrial Base........................     1

                           Member Statements

Statement of Senator Jack Reed...................................     1

Statement of Senator James Inhofe................................     3

                           Witness Statements

Lord, The Honorable Ellen M., Former Under Secretary of Defense       4
  for Acquisition and Sustainment.

Berteau, David J., President and Chief Executive Officer,             7
  Professional Services Council.

                                 Quorum

Military Nominations Pending with the Senate Armed Services           6
  Committee Which are Proposed for the Committee's Consideration 
  on April 26, 2022..

Questions for the Record.........................................    46

                                 (iii)

 
                 THE HEALTH OF THE DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL
                                 BASE

                              ----------                              

                        TUESDAY, APRIL 26, 2022

                              United States Senate,
                               Committee on Armed Services,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m. in room 
SD-G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Senator Jack Reed 
(Chairman of the Committee) presiding.
    Committee Members present: Senators Reed, Gillibrand, 
Blumenthal, Hirono, Kaine, King, Manchin, Rosen, Kelly, Inhofe, 
Wicker, Rounds, Ernst, Tillis, Scott, Blackburn, Hawley, and 
Tuberville.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JACK REED

    Chairman Reed. Good morning. The Committee meets today to 
receive testimony on the health of the defense industrial base 
(DIB). I would like to welcome our distinguished witnesses and 
I thank them for joining us.
    Ms. Ellen Lord is the former Under Secretary of Defense for 
Acquisition and Sustainment. She has more than 30 years of 
experience in the defense industry, including serving as 
President and CEO of Textron Systems, Inc., and as a senior 
advisor to several defense policy research institutions.
    Mr. David Berteau is the President and CEO of the 
Professional Services Council. He served during the Obama 
administration as Assistant Secretary of Defense for Logistics 
and Materiel Readiness, and previously as Senior Vice President 
and Director at the Center for Strategic and International 
Studies.
    We are grateful to have such accomplished experts with us 
to discuss this important problem.
    The United States industrial base is core to our national 
security. America's capacity for technological innovation and 
manufacturing has ensured that our military is the finest in 
the world, with benefits felt well beyond the military sphere. 
From the internet to GPS to the microelectronics in our phones 
and computers, many of the technologies gained from investments 
in our defense industrial base regularly contribute to our 
broader national well-being.
    This industrial advantage, however, is not a given. It must 
be nurtured and maintained through careful investments and 
strong leadership from both the public and private sector. The 
urgency around this issue has never been clearer. As Russia 
continues its onslaught against Ukraine and China calculates 
extensive geostrategic ambitions, we have to make sure our 
defense industrial base is able to adapt, scale, and outpace 
our competitors in the 21st century.
    With that in mind there are a number of challenges for the 
health of our industry. To begin, I am concerned by the impact 
of the long-term trend in consolidation of private companies 
participating in defense research, development, and 
acquisition, especially since the Cold War drawdown in the 
1990s. Competition within the defense industry is vital to 
fostering innovation, delivering products and services in a 
timely and efficient manner, and keeping costs in check.
    However, in the last three decades the defense sector has 
consolidated substantially, transitioning from 51 aerospace and 
defense prime contractors down to just 5. That has unintended 
consequences on costs, barriers to entry for new companies, 
displacement of established technologies with new, innovative 
capabilities, and the overall buying power of the Federal 
Government. I am interested in the witnesses' thoughts on how 
we can better address the factors affecting consolidation, 
including tensions over data rights and intellectual property, 
and how to better leverage small business programs to grow the 
overall pool of providers in the industrial base.
    Further, the COVID-19 pandemic has exposed the brutal 
nature of international supply chains. It is clear that we need 
to protect our domestic supply of critical components, such as 
microelectronics, that may be interrupted in times of 
emergency. I understand the Defense Department plans to take 
steps to ensure supply chain resilience for several priority 
sectors, including casting and forgings, missiles and 
munitions, energy storage and batteries, strategic and critical 
materials, and microelectronics. I would ask our witnesses to 
share what steps they think the Department should take to 
protect these sectors and encourage a domestic supply of 
critical components.
    More broadly, the procurement and acquisition practice of 
the Department of Defense (DOD) and the Federal Government are 
often convoluted, poorly communicated, and burdened with 
inertia that makes contracting with private industry far too 
difficult. As America confronts threats around the globe that 
are evolving at unprecedented speeds, we must find a way to 
better identify our defense needs, communicate them, and 
deliver them in a timely manner. This is being tested right now 
as we work to backfill our stockpiles following the enormous 
transfer of weapons to Ukraine. The lack of responsive and 
rapidly scalable production capacity for consumable systems 
like Stinger and Javelin missiles highlights issues with our 
planning factors and manufacturing flexibility for long-lead 
items needed in short order, with little to no advanced 
warning. I would ask for our witnesses thoughts on how we might 
overcome these challenges.
    Finally, a highly skilled workforce is necessary for 
designing, engineering, and employing the game-changing 
technologies of the future. As we seek to keep pace with our 
strategic competitors, it is imperative that we invest in 
facilities, training, and education to support our defense 
industrial base workforce. I hope our witnesses will discuss 
what steps the Department could take to ensure that people who 
pursue STEM education and careers want to work in areas that 
support the defense industrial base.
    Thank you again to our witnesses. I look forward to your 
testimonies. Now let me recognize the ranking member, Senator 
Inhofe.

               STATEMENT OF SENATOR JAMES INHOFE

    Senator Inhofe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your 
explaining some of the COVID activities. I happen to be 
enjoying the after-effects of COVID right now at about 80 
percent, so be forgiving. I really want to join you in 
welcoming our guests, both of whom I do know. However, I know 
Ellen Lord better, and we have worked on a lot of things in the 
past, so I feel very good about what we are doing today.
    I know our Members have a lot of questions so I have a 
brief opening statement, and I have a longer version I will be 
submitting for the record. This hearing is very timely, and I 
join the Chairman in welcoming both witnesses.
    Last month we received the classified version of the Biden 
administration's new 2022 NDS, which we continue to analyze. 
However, I do believe the new strategy does expand our 
understanding of the scope of the threat of the Chinese 
Communist Party and what will be required to maintain 
deterrence against them.
    The problem does not seem to be one of strategy but rather 
providing the full budget needed to implement it. The budget 
simply does not deliver the real growth our military needs, 
especially with the historic inflation that we are 
experiencing. Which brings me to today's hearing. I am hoping 
to better understand what our defense industrial base is seeing 
and dealing with and how we can help them, whether through 
legislative authorities or additional funding.
    We have two great witnesses, as I have already said, and I 
am looking forward to hearing from them.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator Inhofe, and we appreciate 
your continued leadership despite your still recovering. I very 
much appreciate it.
    Let me now recognize Secretary Lord, please, and you might 
want to pull that microphone as close as you can.
    [The prepared statement of Senator James Inhofe follows:]

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I join you in welcoming our 
witnesses.
    For four years, this Committee has been using the 2018 
National Defense Strategy (NDS) and the Commission report as 
our roadmap for the resources and tools we need to meet the 
threats we face. Both documents have helped accelerate change 
at the Pentagon.
    Last month, we received the classified version of the Biden 
administration's new 2022 NDS, which we continue to analyze. 
But I can tell you this document expands our understanding of 
the scope of the threat from the Chinese Communist Party, and 
what will be required to maintain deterrence against them.
    The problem does not seem to be one of strategy, but rather 
providing the full budget needed to implement it. The budget 
simply doesn't deliver the real growth our military needs--
especially with the historic inflation we're experiencing.
    Which brings me to today's hearing. I am hoping to better 
understand what our defense industrial base is seeing and 
dealing with and how we can help them--whether through 
legislative authorities or additional funding.
    In the 20th century, our defense industrial represented a 
unique comparative advantage. From the arsenal of democracy in 
World War II to the technological feats of the Cold War, our 
ability to harness American ingenuity for deterrence played a 
decisive role in world events.
    Today, the arsenal of democracy is a husk of its former 
self. While many companies still use equipment from the early 
Cold War, the weapons and equipment they manufacture have 
fundamentally changed, as has the workforce.
    We have far too many single points of failure. We have 
brittle supply chains. We have hundreds of production contracts 
at minimum sustaining rates. We have persistent funding 
shortfalls across the board, but particularly in our workforce 
development.
    Over the past decade, many new burdens have been asked of, 
demanded, and even mandated on these companies and their 
employees. From sequestration to a pandemic, an increasingly 
assertive China, Russia's new invasion of Ukraine, record 
inflation, and more.
    In particular, our attempts to arm Ukraine have laid bare 
many of our vulnerabilities, from insufficient munitions stocks 
to slow production times and incredible bureaucratic hurdles, 
especially when it comes to doing business with allies and 
partners.
    The defense industrial base is at the core of our national 
security. I am eager to discuss with our witnesses these 
specific challenges and how our defense industrial base has 
responded.
    We need to rebuild our defense industrial base. I hope 
today's hearing will help us understand what more Congress can 
do to help ensure that our defense industrial base gets all the 
resources it needs to remain resilient and able to meet the 
capability and capacity needs of our men and women in uniform 
who go into harm's way. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

      STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE ELLEN M. LORD, FORMER
       UNDER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR ACQUISITION  AND
       SUSTAINMENT

    Ms. Lord. Chairman Reed, Ranking Member Inhofe, and Members 
of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the 
health of the defense industrial base.
    I represent myself here today with my perspective informed 
by 33 years working in a variety of leadership positions within 
a global, multi-industry conglomerate, and 3\1/2\ years serving 
as a political appointee reporting to the Secretary of Defense, 
in addition to my current activities, which include serving on 
the boards of a publicly traded company, a venture capital-
owned company, and a privately held company, advising a wide 
range of companies from new space to emerging biotech, and 
participating as a senior fellow at Johns Hopkins Applied 
Physics Lab.
    My engagements focus on the intersection of national 
security and industry. I believe our national security and 
economic security are tightly coupled. Our collective 
experience as a Nation during the onset and peak of COVID-19 
demonstrated that we need to understand the provenance of our 
supply chains, the necessity of being able to surge 
manufacturing of critical products and delivering services, and 
to apply our technical innovation potential to mortal threats.
    Industry and government successfully partnered during the 
pandemic to collectively battle a virus, because both shared a 
common understanding of the threat, the steps needed to survive 
individually and collectively, and the need for speed. We were 
willing to take risk. Today we, as a Nation, fear near-peer 
strategic competitors with enormous ambitions that have been 
clearly articulated over the past decade and are now being 
acted upon, with Russia's invasion of Ukraine the most recent 
example.
    Our ability to deter aggression that violates our country's 
values and principles requires a strong government-industry 
partnership. It is a choice for a company to do business with 
DOD. It is a choice for an individual to work for a defense 
contractor. It is a choice for a startup to focus on applying 
their emerging technologies to national security challenges. It 
is a choice for individual investors or fund managers to risk 
their money on a Department of Defense contractor. In order for 
business to survive and flourish there must be a clear demand 
signal and a fast pace of predictable development, production, 
and sustainment.
    Technology innovation is now predominantly driven by the 
commercial sector, and DOD must accelerate its adoption of 
business practices that enable rapid testing and fielding of 
new capability. Many authorities that have been provided by 
recent NDAAs [National Defense Authorization Act] have been 
translated to policy and implementation guidance by the 
Department. These authorities need to be exercised so that the 
acquisition process moves at the speed of relevance. It 
requires leadership, from both Congress and DOD, to ensure that 
the DOD workforce embraces the imperative to conduct business 
in a manner that encourages patriotic individuals and companies 
to participate in our national security ecosystem, versus 
driving them away through frustration over slow decision-making 
and acquisition ambiguity.
    Appropriations must allow flexibility to adjust to 
technical innovations with reprogramming that meets our 
warfighting needs, not only of our Nation but of our allies and 
partners. Disruptive market conditions, such as inflation, must 
be dealt with at the top-line budget level instead of slogging 
through the bureaucracy of each contract being adjusted by 
individual contracting officers at each geographic location.
    Our Ukraine experience has shown how we can hope to carry 
our policy, to provide specific munitions to support, and then 
realize that we have not provided funding to keep manufacturing 
lines hot and supply chains intact, and will therefore have 
significant delays in shipping desired quantities of specific 
weapons systems. We have an opportunity to regenerate our 
capacity and throughput by leveraging our national 
manufacturing capability, but by also modifying our 
releasability and exportability regulations to allow our 
National Technological Industrial Base, NTIB, partners to 
establish indigenous capability to produce critical munitions 
and guided weapons.
    We should use the data published in the 13806 Industrial 
Base Report in 2018, to identify sole-source supplies of 
critical supply chain items to begin to build our supply chain 
resilience.
    I am hopeful that the Executive and Legislative branches 
can partner now to not only maintain our current defense 
industrial base but also to rapidly implement requirements and 
acquisition practices that allow us, as a Nation, to move at 
the speed of relevance and smartly embrace risk.
    I will submit this statement for the record, and I look 
forward to your questions.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you very much, Secretary Lord.
    Since a quorum is now present I ask the committee to 
consider a list of 1,652 pending military nominations. All of 
these nominations have been before the committee the required 
length of time.
    Is there a motion to favorably report the list of 1,652 
pending military nominations to the Senate?
    Voice. So moved.
    Chairman Reed. Is there a second?
    Voice. Second.
    Chairman Reed. All in favor, say aye.
    [Chorus of ayes.]
    [The information referred to follows:]

    MILITARY NOMINATIONS PENDING WITH THE SENATE ARMED SERVICES
     COMMITTEE WHICH ARE PROPOSED FOR THE COMMITTEE'S CONSIDER-
     ATION ON APRIL 26, 2022.
     
    1.  BG Douglas A. Schiess, USAF to be major general (Reference No. 
950)
    2.  BG Douglas A. Schiess, USAF to be brigadier general (Reference 
No. 951)
    3.  In the Marine Corps there are 315 appointments to the grade of 
lieutenant colonel (list begins with Jeremy D. Adams) (Reference No. 
1433)
    4.  In the Marine Corps there is 1 appointment to the grade of 
lieutenant colonel (Jon C. Peterson) (Reference No. 1631)
    5.  In the Marine Corps there is 1 appointment to the grade of 
lieutenant colonel (Andrew E. Cheatum) (Reference No. 1633)
    6.  In the Marine Corps there is 1 appointment to the grade of 
major (Christopher J. Voss) (Reference No. 1636)
    7.  In the Marine Corps there are 2 appointments to the grade of 
major (Dustin E. Guerpo) (Reference No. 1637)
    8.  In the Air Force Reserve there are 21 appointments to be 
brigadier general (list begins with Christopher M. Blomquist) 
(Reference No. 1717)
    9.  In the Air Force there are 60 appointments to the grade of 
lieutenant colonel (list begins with Michael A. Armstrong) (Reference 
No. 1732)
    10.  In the Air Force there are 30 appointments to the grade of 
brigadier general (list begins with Kirsten G. Aguilar) (Reference No. 
1784)
    11.  Brig Gen Rebecca R. Vernon, USAF, to be major general and 
Deputy Judge Advocate General of the Air Force (Reference No. 1850)
    12.  LTG Randy A. George, USA to be general and Vice Chief of Staff 
of the Army (Reference No. 1900)
    13.  LTG Andrew P. Poppas, USA to be general and Commanding 
General, US Army Forces Command (Reference No. 1901)
    14.  MG Sean C. Bernabe, USA to be lieutenant general and 
Commanding General, III Corps and Fort Hood (Reference No. 1902)
    15.  LTG Duke Z. Richardson, USAF to be general and Commander, Air 
Force Materiel Command (Reference No. 1904)
    16.  LTG Mary F. O'Brien, USAF to be lieutenant general and 
Director for Command, Control, Communications, and Computers/Cyber; 
Chief Information Officer, J-6, Joint Staff (Reference No. 1906)
    17.  LTG Brian S. Robinson, USAF to be lieutenant general and 
Commander, Air Education and Training Command (Reference No. 1908)
    18.  MG Randall Reed, USAF to be lieutenant general and Deputy 
Commander, Air Mobility Command (Reference No. 1909)
    19.  LTG David S. Nahom, USAF to be lieutenant general and 
Commander, Alaskan Command, US Northern Command; Commander, Eleventh 
Air Force, Pacific Air Forces; and Commander, Alaskan North American 
Aerospace Defense Region (Reference No. 1910)
    20.  LTG Tom D. Miller, USAF to be lieutenant general and Deputy 
Chief of Staff for Logistics, Engineering, and Force Protection, 
Headquarters US Air Force (Reference No. 1911)
    21.  Col. Amy D. Holbeck, ANG to be brigadier general (Reference 
No. 1912)
    22.  Col. David N. Unruh, ANG to be brigadier general (Reference 
No. 1913)
    23.  MG Dimitri Henry, USMC to be lieutenant general and Director 
of Intelligence, J-2, Joint Staff (Reference No. 1914)
    24.  In the Air Force there are 7 appointments to the grade of 
lieutenant colonel (list begins with Jonathan P. Dietz) (Reference No. 
1917)
    25.  In the Air Force there are 3 appointments to the grade of 
major (list begins with Alan K. Chan) (Reference No. 1918)
    26.  In the Air Force there is 1 appointment to the grade of major 
(Alec S. Williams) (Reference No. 1920)
    27.  In the Army Reserve there is 1 appointment to the grade of 
colonel (Derwin Brayboy) (Reference No. 1922)
    28.  In the Army there are 383 appointments to the grade of 
lieutenant colonel (list begins with Yonatan S. Abebie) (Reference No. 
1927)
    29.  In the Army there are 461 appointments to the grade of 
lieutenant colonel (list begins with David H. Aamidor) (Reference No. 
1928)
    30.  In the Army there are 245 appointments to the grade of 
lieutenant colonel (list begins with Michael S. Abbott) (Reference No. 
1929)
    31.  In the Army there are 27 appointments to the grade of 
lieutenant colonel (list begins with Rachell H. Baca) (Reference No. 
1930)
    32.  In the Army there is 1 appointment to the grade of lieutenant 
colonel (Charles J. Bulva) (Reference No. 1931)
    33.  In the Army there is 1 appointment to the grade of lieutenant 
colonel (David L. Armeson) (Reference No. 1932)
    34.  In the Navy there are 74 appointments to the grade of captain 
and below (list begins with Joseph L. Campbell) (Reference No. 1934)
    35.  In the Space Force there are 2 appointments to the grade of 
lieutenant colonel (list begins with Matthew B. Christensen) (Reference 
No. 1935)

_______________________________________________________________________
                                                                    
                                                           TOTAL: 1,652

    Chairman Reed. The motion carries. Thank you very much.
    Now let me recognize Secretary Berteau.

         STATEMENT OF DAVID J. BERTEAU, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF
          EXECUTIVE OFFICER, PROFESSIONAL SERVICES COUNCIL

    Mr. Berteau. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Senator 
Inhofe, and thanks to all the Members for being here.
    I really want to commend this Committee for tackling this 
issue so early in the process where you would have time to 
really develop your thinking and I think reflect it not only as 
you develop the fiscal year 2023 NDAA but perhaps dealing with 
some issues that may not even be able to wait that long. So I 
really want to commend you for doing that.
    I appear before you today, obviously, as the President and 
CEO of a trade association, the Professional Services Council, 
but more importantly, what I say here today is my own opinion, 
not necessarily representative of my organization, and it draws 
on a little more than four decades of experience in this 
business, both inside the Pentagon, with industry, and as you 
mentioned, at a think tank and in academia.
    I have a lot in my written statement. I would like to ask 
that it be submitted for the record.
    Chairman Reed. Without objection.
    Mr. Berteau. I did omit one preposition, which I would like 
to insert before it goes into the record. I happen to be an 
English major and I should catch my own errors, but I did not 
do it in time there.
    The points that I would like to make right now, though, and 
then get to your questions, to me, my experience tells me there 
are a few key elements of that partnership that Secretary Lord 
mentioned between government and industry that is so vital to 
our success, not only now but in the future. I would just like 
to highlight those for a moment.
    The first, to me, is that companies and their workers--and 
I did not realize this when I was first in the Pentagon--are as 
committed to national security and to support DOD missions as 
the folks inside the business are as well, the civilians and 
military themselves. Of course, many of them came from that. It 
is that mission commitment that I see drives those companies 
every day.
    Now that is a very important key element, but there is a 
second key element, and that is they live in a world that is 
governed by the economic laws of supply and demand. You 
mentioned, for example, we have gone from 51 major prime 
manufacturers in defense to down to 5. We are actually moving 
back up to 6 or 7 now, I think, which is one of the sometimes 
potential benefits of consolidation. But the reality is that is 
driven as much by how much DOD is buying as it is by what the 
companies need to do, from a business point of view, and in the 
end, you know, the size and economic vitality of the industry 
is determined by how much DOD buys.
    Another key element, I think, is the timelines. For a 
company to bid and win work with DOD, whether it is in 
products, major weapons systems, or in the 50 percent of 
defense contracts that goes into services, which includes RDT&E 
[Research, Development, Test, and Evaluation] and it includes 
all the sustainment and support necessary to keep those systems 
going, the timelines can be 3 to 4 years long. In order to be 
successful, the company has to predict what DOD is going to 
need, what they are putting in their budget now, before it 
comes to Congress, what comes out of Congress, and then 
ultimately what gets apportioned and allocated out of OMB 
[Office of Management and Budget] and through the Comptroller 
down to the programs. So they have to predict what that is 
going to be, they have to invest in that years in advance, and 
then they have to maintain that investment until such time as 
the contract is awarded.
    This is lengthy. It is hard enough even if the rest of it 
were easy. But the rest of it is not because it is hard to do 
business with the Federal Government. The Federal Government 
legitimately has a lot of additional requirements with which 
companies have to comply, that the commercial world, that you 
mentioned, that does all the innovation, does not necessarily 
have to meet. So that is an added layer. Those are some of the 
key elements, if you will. My statement goes into more detail 
on that. It also talks a bit about the DOD competition report 
that was issued a couple of months ago.
    I also close out with some comments on the impacts of 
Ukraine, where I think we have a lot of lessons that--you know, 
the Army likes to talk about lessons learned, but we used to 
also say they are actually just lessons documented, not 
necessarily learned, because we seem to come back and learn 
them over and over again. I think we are gathering a lot of 
lessons out of Ukraine but we have yet to implement those. My 
statement offers that DOD is moving more slowly than it should 
be on everything from replenishment as well as implementing 
some of those key lessons learned, including the importance of 
logistics and sustainment to deterrence going forward.
    There is also a significant impact of inflation, and I 
would suggest to you that we cannot really wait for the fiscal 
year 2023 budget to be fixed to address that. I actually do not 
know what inflation is going to be a year from now, but we do 
know what it is right now, and we have companies operating with 
5 or 6 percent margin on their contracts and 8 or 10 percent 
growth in wages, and over the long run that is not going to be 
sustainable, so we have to figure out some ways to address 
that.
    Then, finally, the impacts of COVID-19 seem to be 
regularizing, but there is still some enormous impacts, not 
only on supply chain but also on the workforce. So in 
conclusion, I have got a number of recommendations in my 
statement. I am happy to go over those. I think the timing of 
this hearing is really tremendous, and I commend you and the 
entire committee for doing this.
    Thank you, sir.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. David Berteau follows:]

                Prepared Statement by Mr. David Berteau
                
    Chairman Reed, Ranking Member Inhofe, and Members of the Committee, 
thank you for the invitation to testify this morning on the vital topic 
of the defense industrial base (the DIB) and its importance to the 
success of Department of Defense (DOD) missions.
    I speak today on behalf of the Professional Services Council (PSC), 
our more than 400 member companies, and their hundreds of thousands of 
employees across the Nation. PSC represents the full range and 
diversity of the government contracting sector, with companies of all 
sizes, doing all types of work, and serving every cabinet department 
and agency of the Federal Government. I also speak on behalf of their 
government customers, because a key PSC goal is to help the Federal 
Government become a smarter customer and a better buyer. The diversity 
of functions performed and the business size of PSC members gives us 
unique perspectives on the DIB and on changes in government policies 
and practices that will lead to better support for DOD's missions and 
America's security.
    I appear before you not just as the head of PSC but also as a 
person with more than 40 years of experience on these issues from all 
sides, including two stints inside the Pentagon as well as with 
industry, at a think tank, in academia, and now in my seventh year at 
PSC. I have seen what works and what does not.
    My statement includes:
      comments on the DOD-industry partnership;
      DIB statistics, including data on recent trends in DOD 
contract spending; and
      observations on the impacts of the war in Ukraine, of 
inflation, and of COVID-19.
    My statement concludes with some observations and recommendations, 
focused on priorities and criteria for you to keep in mind as your 
committee develops the Fiscal Year 2023 National Defense Authorization 
Act and considers programs, policies, and funding that impact the DIB.

            the vital partnership of government and industry
            
    For centuries, one of America's great national security strengths 
has been the dynamic partnership of government and the private sector. 
This partnership is vital in the core meaning of that word: our way of 
life depend on the continuing success of that partnership.
    In DOD, contractors provide a wide range of goods and services to 
the warfighter and to the components and agencies of the Department. 
These contractor contributions are essential maintain national 
security, and the government benefits from a strong, diversified 
national interest business base to support its current and emerging 
requirements.
    Based on my long experience, here are some key elements of that 
partnership. I hope that you can keep these in mind as you move forward 
to address the challenges we face today and in the future.
1. Companies and their workers are committed to national security and 
        to support DOD missions across the board.
    From the most recently hired worker to the top of the company, DOD 
contractors are fully committed to supporting the missions and 
functions of the department. The partnership works best when DOD works 
with companies to address and solve challenges, not in an ``us vs. 
them'' approach, but together as ``we.''
    We witness this Commitment to mission over and over. Here are two 
examples.
      When the COVID-19 pandemic hit in March of 2020, and 
businesses across America shut down, defense contractors kept working. 
On the factory floor, maintaining ships at sea, in classified 
facilities, etc., their workers kept on working. In fact, associations 
like PSC worked with DOD to provide company workers with the necessary 
documents to keep going to work. Citing DHS guidance about the 
essential workforce, the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and 
Sustainment issued a letter that tens of thousands of contractor 
workers used to enable them to travel to and work on site when others 
were shut down.
      During the drawdown in Afghanistan last spring and 
summer, contractors stayed on the job even as the security committed to 
them in their contracts disappeared.
2. The defense industrial base is governed by the economic laws of 
        supply and demand.
    Industry's ability to provide defense-unique goods and services 
depends entirely on DOD demand. For large parts of the defense 
industrial base, DOD is the largest--and sometimes the only--customer. 
When that is the case, the size and economic viability of the 
industrial base will be determined by how much DOD buys.
    Recently, DOD issued a report, entitled: ``State of Competition 
within the Defense Industrial Base,'' \1\ in response to Executive 
Order 14036: Promoting Competition in the American Economy. \2\ The 
report criticized defense industry for excessive consolidation but 
failed to acknowledge the department's own role in that consolidation. 
For example, the report noted that only 3 prime contractors produce 
tactical missiles in the U.S. today but failed to note that DOD does 
not buy enough missiles to keep more companies in business. PSC, in 
conjunction with the National Defense Industrial Association, produced 
a short paper that addresses shortcomings of this report, and I would 
be glad to provide it to the Committee for the record, should you so 
desire.
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    \2\ https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/07/14/2021-
15069/promoting-competition-in-the-american-economy.
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    In addition, even where there is an opportunity for companies that 
do business outside of DOD, defense-unique requirements of the 
government impose costs and constraints that make companies less 
competitive in the commercial marketplace. From security clearance 
delays to operating on obsolete data systems to complying with 
reporting requirements that no commercial company has to face, 
companies in the defense industrial base are tied inexorably to the DOD 
market.
    Finally, with more than 11 million open jobs across the U.S and 
only 6 million people looking for work, defense companies are competing 
for workers who can command higher salaries, without the delays 
required for security clearances, and with flexibility in work 
locations and conditions that are hard for contractors to match (often 
because contracts restrict a company's flexibility in such matters). 
While there is no accurate way to count, discussions with our member 
companies lead me to conclude that tens of thousands of vacant billets 
exist today, and they grow harder to fill with each passing month of 
economic recovery. Unlike in other economic matters, increased demand 
is not producing the needed increase in supply. Instead, it is 
contributing to wage inflation, which I will address in a subsequent 
section of this statement.
3. Federal contracting processes are complex, with voluminous 
        regulations, and often reflect competing priorities that are 
        not mutually compatible.
    Government contracting is among the most highly structured and 
controlled elements of the U.S. economy. It consistently prioritizes 
compliance more than it rewards results. The contracting process is 
managed by people who often are unconnected to the benefits from the 
goods and services delivered by contractors. For example, contracting 
officers (and other officials) are evaluated by the percentage of 
contract dollars that are awarded to small businesses, but they are not 
scored on how well those companies actually perform on the contracts 
they receive.
4. Companies have to earn enough to stay in business. They compete for 
        funds with the rest of the commercial marketplace in a global 
        economy.
    No company is entitled to a contract, and they must provide a 
competitive return on investment for the funds they need to stay in 
business. Government rules generally dictate payment for work only as 
or after it is completed. Companies have to fund themselves in advance 
of government invoice payments, and to obtain those funds, they must 
provide a competitive rate of return.
5. The success of contractors depends on their ability to predict the 
        future needs of DOD, to invest resources in being ready to meet 
        those needs when contract bids are solicited, and to maintain 
        the commitments in those bids for the months (or years) that it 
        takes DOD to award the contract.
    DOD awards contracts based on proposals submitted by bidding 
companies, using criteria specified in advance by the government. Those 
bids include commitments to technical and operational performance, key 
personnel, and cost, all frozen at the time the bid is submitted. No 
matter how long it takes DOD to evaluate those bids, companies are 
expected (at their own cost) to keep available all the resources in the 
bid, from technology to workers, at the submitted price, no matter what 
is happening in the overall economy.
    As one member company CEO told me, ``I don't need to go to the 
casino to gamble. I gamble every time I submit a bid on a government 
contract.''
    Let me turn now to the dimensions and characteristics of the 
defense industrial base.

                   defense industrial base statistics

    One measure of the defense industrial base is the amount of funds 
obligated for contracts. In fiscal year 2021, the most recent full year 
of data, PSC calculates that DOD contract obligations totaled $408 
billion. This amount was roughly equally split between contracts for 
products ($194 billion) and those for services ($214 billion). Overall, 
contract obligations were 9% lower in fiscal year 2021 than in fiscal 
year 2020, due largely to a decline in contracts for COVID (including 
vaccine development) and for support of Afghanistan.
    The table below includes contract obligations for fiscal year 2020 
and fiscal year 2021 (note that overall appropriations, including OCO 
funds, were nearly identical for both fiscal years).

            DOD Contract Obligations for Products and Services, Fiscal Year 2020 to Fiscal Year 2021
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Contract Category                           Fiscal Year 2020          Fiscal Year 2021
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Products....................................................             $220 billion              $194 billion
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Services....................................................             $229 billion              $214 billion
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total.......................................................             $449 billion              $408 billion
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The fiscal year 2021 decline in contract obligations was the first 
such decline since fiscal year 2015, which was at the tail end of the 
impact from the fiscal year 2013 sequestration of DOD funds. This trend 
may reflect a one-time decline; preliminary first quarter fiscal year 
2022 contract obligations are slightly higher than for the same quarter 
in fiscal year 2021, even though funding under Continuing Resolutions 
was at the same level as in fiscal year 2021. With the enactment of 
fiscal year 2022 appropriations, we expect later this year to see 
increases in fiscal year 2022 contract obligations commensurate with 
the increase on DOD authorizations and appropriations.

Declining Numbers of Prime Contractors

    Another measure of the DIB is the number of companies that 
participate as prime contractors or subcontractors. A recent report 
from the Center for Strategic and International Studies \3\ cited the 
drop in overall numbers of companies with one or more prime contracts 
from DOD, from more than 60,000 in 2009 to roughly 41,000 in 2020. 
Experience tells us, though, that those numbers alone are not the full 
story.
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publication/
220329_Sanders_DefenseAcquisitionTrends_2021_0.pdf?n_gpAQf5972Vi6KlWfAS4
mN9iOrK1CIh.
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    The vast majority of those companies (more than 25,000 in 2020) are 
small businesses, and their contracts are frequently awarded through 
various programs that ``set aside'' awards only for eligible small 
businesses. This does help keep small businesses going, until they 
outgrow their eligibility for those ``set-aside'' contracts. PSC 
analysis shows that once such companies ``graduate'' from small-
business status, their success in winning DOD contracts drops 
precipitously. In other words, DOD and federal small business policies 
and practices punish growth rather than rewarding it. This is not the 
way to attract more companies to do business with DOD.
    What happens to small businesses that graduate? They become mid-
sized companies instead of small ones, and the same CSIS study shows 
that the decline in mid-sized businesses is roughly the same as for 
small businesses. Even large companies are fewer in number than at the 
peak in 2009.
    In addition, neither the CSIS report nor any publicly-available 
data from DOD tells us the actual number of contracts. It is my belief, 
based on anecdotal evidence, that two dynamics are at play here.
    One is that DOD may be awarding fewer contracts overall. There is 
inconsistency in counting and reporting contracts into the publicly-
available data, which makes it hard to compare from year to year. In 
addition, classified contracts are not part of that data (and are 
excluded from the CSIS report and from PSC's own analysis).
    The second is that DOD contracts are often awarded to companies 
eligible under a set of contracts known as GWACs, or government-wide 
acquisition contracts. Many of these contracts limit the number of 
companies eligible to receive awards and offer few opportunities for 
new companies to gain a spot on any given GWAC. This makes the job of 
the contracting officer easier but does little to increase the number 
of bidders.
    Why has this happened, and what does it mean? How many companies 
does DOD need in the industrial base? While beyond the scope of this 
hearing, more analysis could be valuable here, but there are two other 
elements of the defense industrial base that may matter more.

Subcontractors
    Neither DOD nor any other agency tracks the number of 
subcontractors. DOD estimated in 2019 that up to 300,000 companies 
performed subcontract work for DOD in areas that would be covered by 
cybersecurity requirements. No one knows whether or to what extent the 
companies that no longer receive prime contracts are still in the 
defense industrial base as subcontractors. Efforts to increase supply 
chain resiliency will rely on layers of subcontractors, yet DOD knows 
little about these companies and even less about what makes doing 
business with DOD more attractive.

Non-traditional Contracts
    In addition, DOD has increasingly turned to Other Transaction 
Authority, or OTA, for work done by the industrial base. Such work is 
under an OT agreement, not a contract, and is not captured in the data. 
No one knows the extent to which work under such agreements offset the 
apparent decline in the overall number of companies.

                           the real question

    The real question is what policies and regulations are needed so 
that the defense industrial base can meet national security needs, 
today and in the future.
    To help answer that question, let's look at three specific 
challenges.

Impacts of Ukraine
    Even before Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24, 2022, DOD was 
drawing down stocks of weapon systems and supplies and providing them 
to Ukrainian forces. The pace of that support continues to increase, 
with the president announcing additional support last week and 
preparing to ask Congress to authorize more. The nature and purposes of 
such support is evolving and will continue to change, which makes 
analysis complicated.
    Three big questions arise for industry:
    1)  How will depleted stocks be replenished or replaced?
    2)  What else will be needed?
    3)  Who pays for this?
    Public reports indicate, for example, that fully one third of the 
available stock of Javelin anti-tank weapons have already been drawn 
down for Ukraine, in barely two months. It's apparent that stocks will 
not last for long at that pace, and to the best of my knowledge, no 
contracts have been awarded for replenishment of any items being 
supplied to Ukraine or to allies to replace their own contributions to 
Ukraine.
    What else will be needed? That information is not broadly available 
to industry today, although some programs have begun discussions with 
some companies. Who will pay for the up-front costs of increasing 
production capacity or even reopening closed production lines? As of 
now, there is no line item for such funding and no proposal that I have 
seen. Indeed, thanks to delays in submitting budget justification 
material coupled with the submission of Unfunded Priority Lists from 
DOD components, as I write this, we know more about what is NOT in the 
fiscal year 2023 budget than the details of what IS in it.
    DOD did, however, issue a Request for Information (RFI) last week 
for ``Weapons Systems or Commercial Capabilities for Ukraine Security 
Assistance,'' with responses due May 6. This is a step, albeit belated, 
in the right direction, but it seems apparent that it may be easier to 
deplete stocks of weapon systems and munitions than it is to restore 
them.
    This is not a new problem. We saw it during my last tour in DOD, 
where the use rate for certain munitions (HARM missiles, for instance) 
was far in excess of current production capacity to replace them, and 
the lead time for increasing production was years, not months. I am not 
privy to current assessments, but it is likely that today's supply 
chain constraints have made those time lines longer, not shorter.

Workforce and Replenishment
    In addition, replenishment faces a problem today that did not exist 
in 2015 for Afghanistan or the counter-ISIS campaign, and that is a 
shortage of workers for nearly every defense contractor. My statement 
already covered this issue more broadly, but if action is not taken 
soon, this shortage of workers will diminish industry's ability to 
respond to the increased demands resulting from Ukraine assistance.
    The impact of inflation on supplies, components, energy, and wages 
further complicates the issues of replenishment. Let me turn now from 
Ukraine to that second challenge.

Impacts of Inflation
    There are three separate challenges with the return of higher rates 
of inflation: wage and price inflation today, recovering cost increases 
on existing contracts, and addressing possible inflation shortfalls in 
the fiscal year 2023 DOD budget proposal.
1) Wage and Price Inflation
    Defense companies are in a bind. Existing contracts, whether of a 
fixed-price or cost-reimbursable nature, offer little room for them to 
recover the increased costs from wage inflation or the increase in 
prices for material and components, including energy and 
transportation. Because inflation has been so low and stable for so 
long, fewer existing contracts include what's known as an EPA, a clause 
that permits Economic Price Adjustments. Absent such a clause, 
contractors have a harder time making the case for DOD to cover their 
increased costs. However, even with such a clause, programs may claim 
that they don't have the funds to cover these increased costs.
    This is particularly a problem for companies providing services. 
Such contracts are often so competitive that margins for successful 
bidders are in the low single digits. A company that realizes a 4% or 
5% fee on a contract simply cannot absorb the wage cost growth of 8% or 
10% that we are seeing today.
    DOD's public response to this has been to note that, to date, it 
has received few requests for equitable adjustments, known as REAs. 
While that may be true at this time, this does not mean there is no 
problem. Rather, companies faced with uncompensated cost growth must 
first document the situation and discuss it with their program office 
before submitting an REA.
    In addition, the REA process requires companies to submit requests 
rapidly, often within 30 days of incurring the unanticipated cost, but 
there is no timeline for the government to respond to those requests. I 
have seen DOD take a year or more to reach a decision on an REA, and 
even then only a part (or none) of the costs are paid.
    Finally, the breadth of the inflation problem cannot be addressed 
one contract at a time, which is the preferred approach of the current 
policy. We need a faster way to deal with this. PSC believes that DOD 
should issue broad agency-wide guidance that reminds programs and 
contracting officers of their affirmative responsibility to maintain 
the long-term viability of the industrial base and to increase the 
flexibility that programs have to cover such cost growth.
2) Existing Contracts and Availability of fiscal year 2022 Funds
    Even though DOD's fiscal year 2022 appropriations was signed by the 
president just over a month ago, its funding levels did not provide for 
coverage of 8% inflation. If I were still in DOD, rather than saying 
that we don't yet see a problem because few requests have been 
received, I would try to get in front of this problem by estimating the 
additional funding needed to cover this cost growth and looking at ways 
to meet those costs. Perhaps DOD is doing that, but to date we have 
seen no requests for the information they would need for such 
estimates. Absent action, this problem will get worse. Companies that 
cannot recover their costs will not be able to stay in business for 
long.
3) fiscal year 2023 Inflation
    DOD in testimony before this Committee has already undertaken to 
explain their approach to inflation estimates in the fiscal year 2023 
budget. While this is a real challenge both for DOD and for this 
Committee, it is important to recognize that addressing inflation in 
fiscal year 2023 will not fix the current problems.

Impacts of COVID-19
    The third challenge facing the defense industrial base includes the 
impacts of COVID-19. As I mentioned previously, defense industry 
stepped up from day one of the pandemic. Companies kept going as the 
rest of business shut down. They provided for the health and safety of 
their workers and their families and households, including testing and 
vaccinations as well as changes to workplaces. The cost for these 
provisions were not recoverable under existing contracts and in many 
cases were completely absorbed by the companies themselves.
    One action taken by Congress was significantly beneficial. Known as 
Section 3610 (because that was the section number of the 2020 CARES Act 
provision), it provided the authority for agencies (subject to the 
availability of funds) to reimburse companies for retaining essential 
workers even when COVID-19 prevented them from accessing workplaces. 
Tens of thousands of workers were retained as a result of this 
provision, at no additional cost to the taxpayers. The intelligence 
community and civilian agencies also used the same authority.
    That authority, unfortunately, has been allowed to expire. Last 
year, this Committee considered but ultimately did not include language 
that would have provided such authority on a stand-by basis, making it 
available for DOD to use if needed. PSC urges the Committee to take 
another look at such language and include it in the fiscal year 2023 
NDAA.
    In addition, executive branch actions regarding COVID-19 continue 
to impact the ability of industrial base companies to meet the 
requirements of their contracts and to hire and retain necessary 
workers. While the contractor vaccine mandate in unenforceable under a 
federal district court injunction, the FAR clause remains in effect. 
Were the injunction to be revised or reversed, that clause would be 
immediately effective. Every government contractor worries about what 
that would mean for their workers and their contracts. No company can 
tell a prospective employee what the requirements might be in the 
future.
    An additional complication arises under COVID-19 with regard to 
access to facilities. Unlike the enjoined FAR clause, which applies 
government-wide, the requirements for access to government facilities 
is completely decentralized to each facility and often to individual 
offices within a facility. On any given day, a company's worker can 
face changes in requirements for vaccination status, attestation, or 
proof. Masking requirements are dictated by the COVID risk designation 
of the county as reported by the CDC to be low, medium, or high. For 
now, few counties are medium or high, but that can change rapidly and 
without advance notice. All of this makes it hard for companies to know 
whether their employees and subcontractors will be able to access their 
workplaces.
    I am not suggesting that this needs a legislative fix, but I am 
suggesting that it makes it harder for companies to manage their 
workforce and to meet the needs of their DOD customers. To date, there 
has been no coordinated action to address this complex challenge.

              additional observations and recommendations

    PSC offers the Committee a number of additional proposals for 
consideration in the fiscal year 2023 National Defense Authorization 
Act that could support the ability of the defense industrial base to 
meet DOD's needs, including:
1) Reinforce real competition where it can thrive.
    Half of DOD contract dollars go to services, and what was once a 
product is often now procured as a service. From data storage to 
satellite launches, DOD does not need ownership to benefit. This $200+ 
billion services market offers unrealized potential for DOD. For 
example, 70 percent of DOD system costs are in life-cycle support, 
sustainment and operations, yet there are too few opportunities for 
real competition.
    This is in part due to the lack of transparency surrounding the 
long term needs of the Department. Requiring DOD to provide Congress 
with additional, publicly available information would benefit DOD and 
the industrial base. Accordingly, PSC recommends that Congress require 
DOD to include in Operations and Maintenance (O&M) budget justification 
documents an unclassified budget display for the total amount projected 
for each subactivity group for the future-years defense program. I will 
tell you that, when I was the Assistant Secretary of Defense for 
Logistics, this information would have helped me do my job, and if 
Congress had required it, I would have had it for internal use as well.
    In addition, excessive focus on low bids reduces real competition. 
Past legislation by this Committee required DOD to use Low Price 
Technically Acceptable (LPTA) contracts only when clearly justified, 
but reports from our member companies indicate a lack of compliance 
with the statute in this area.
    Finally, DOD should emphasize competing on results rather than 
price. This would support innovation, encourage improvements in systems 
and processes, creates jobs, and better meet warfighter needs.
2) Reduce Procurement Administrative Lead Times (PALT).
    Long procurement administrative lead times can prevent the 
government from accessing the solutions it needs when it needs them and 
can limit the participation of companies in the defense industrial 
base. The fiscal year 2018 NDAA required DOD to measure and track PALT 
with a goal of reducing lead times, but we believe PALT is increasing. 
Reducing PALT should be a priority for the government to improve 
acquisition timelines and also to attract and retain innovative 
companies. PSC believes this Committee can call attention to DOD's need 
to implement that fiscal year 2018 language.

                               conclusion

    There are a number of additional challenges that merit attention, 
and I would be happy to discuss any or all of them during this hearing. 
In closing, though, and on behalf of PSC and our members, I thank you 
for your time and consideration of these matters. As always, PSC is 
available at your convenience to address any questions or concerns the 
Committee has, now and in the future. I will try to answer any 
questions you may have, and I look forward to continuing to work with 
the Committee on all of these important industrial base challenges.

    Chairman Reed. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary. Thank 
you both for excellent testimony, and, you know, I concur. We 
have, I think, neglected our industrial base. We assumed it 
would always be there, and we are now discovering it is not 
quite there because of many different factors.
    Just to give you an opportunity again, both of you, to 
highlight what you think are some of the most critical problems 
and steps that we should take, and I will start with Secretary 
Lord.
    Ms. Lord. I think the most urgent issue we have right now 
is the rising inflation numbers. This has impact today. It is 
going to have more impact tomorrow. What does it mean? It means 
that fixed-price contracts will not be completed as they were 
bid because there was not the assumption that there would be 8, 
9, 10, 11, you know, percent inflation, and rising. It is not 
only labor costs, it is material costs. I would like to submit 
for the record some data I have from a variety of companies, 
talking about price increases for materials.
    There are also enormous cost increases in transportation. 
So this is putting not only fixed-price contracts at risk but 
it also impacts cost-plus contracts because everything is more 
expensive and we are not going to be able to get everything 
done.
    Now that is for existing contracts. What happens when 
industry is trying to negotiate with DOD for forward-looking 
contracts? It is both in the government and industry's best 
interest to have multi-year contracts. However, how can you 
negotiate a 3- or 5-year contract when you do not understand 
what inflation is going to do and when there has not been a 
mechanism for quickly addressing cost growth?
    Equitable adjustment clauses and so forth have fallen out 
of a lot of contracts because we have not seen inflation, but 
requests for equitable adjustment take an enormous amount of 
time and effort to gather data for, through all the different 
levels of the supply chain, and then work through the 
Department.
    So I personally think the most significant thing Congress 
could do is to authorize and appropriate increases to the 2022 
budget right now to make up for inflation so that we are not 
continuing to impact readiness and modernization, and then 
think very hard about what to do in 2023. If you leave it to 
individual contract officers to do this we will not get it done 
in time, before we see a downward spiral in our capability.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you. Secretary Berteau?
    Mr. Berteau. Thank you, Senator. I would echo the 
importance of inflation and the ability to cover costs for 
inflation, but it is also important to look at what the root 
causes are, and half of this inflation is in the workforce. It 
is not actually the fault of the government that there are not 
enough workers to go around to fill the needs that are there.
    I did a brief informal survey of our member companies 
before appearing before you today, and there are tens of 
thousands of vacant jobs that they have under contract today, 
committed to perform, and they cannot either recruit or retain 
or, in many cases, get timely clearance for workers to be able 
to get into those jobs. This is not so much about a loss of 
money, although, of course, they probably care about that, but 
from my perspective it is work not being done that does need to 
be done.
    We saw the impact of COVID here, as well, where you had a 
lot of the intelligence agencies went into a 50 percent on, 50 
percent off. I asked them, for example, ``Okay, so if you are 
actually getting all the work done with only 50 percent of the 
people"--because we had to be at least six feet apart, right, 
and the SCIFs are not built for that, I said--"either something 
is not getting done or you did not need all those people in the 
first place. Which is it?'' And, of course, they said, 
``Neither. We do need all those people, and the work still is 
getting done.'' That may be true in the short term but it is 
not sustainable over the long term.
    I think, though, that there is an underlying element that 
really comes into play. Everything just takes us so long, and 
the threat from China does not give us the luxury of time. Ten 
years ago, I delivered a report to this Committee on the pivot 
to Asia, and what we said in that report was we have got 8 to 
10 years to stay ahead. Well, those 10 years are gone, Senator, 
and we did not use them very well in that regard. It takes us 
today 3 years to do what China can do in 3 days, in terms of 
deciding, resourcing, and getting started on something that 
needs to be done, particularly bringing new technology into 
play. Those, I think, are the critical aspects that we need to 
address.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you. Just a follow-up question, Mr. 
Berteau, because I have heard the same thing from businesses 
all over my state of Rhode Island. They just cannot get the 
people. Did your members indicate what they think the reason 
is?
    Mr. Berteau. We actually just completed, or we are 
finishing up this morning, our annual conference. We were at 
the Greenbrier in West Virginia, and I drove back. I have got 
my water bottle still with me here. It is a great attraction to 
come to this room from the Greenbrier, I must say.
    Senator Manchin. Good decision.
    Chairman Reed. Senator Manchin is now doing handstands.
    Mr. Berteau. But we had a panel on this yesterday on what 
is being done, and we actually had experts from the Society of 
Human Resource Management, from academics who are researching 
this as well. There are so many tools available to us now and 
we are trying them all. Whether we are making a dent in it or 
not it is too hard to tell.
    We are seeing a very interesting trend, though, that the 
academics reported yesterday, of what I would call transition 
remorse, so the Great Resignation, when people left for more 
money, or perhaps the ability to work from home when they did 
not before. Six months later we are starting to see maybe there 
is more to the job than just working from home and getting paid 
more. Maybe actually the mission matters, contributing 
something. Whether this is has a long-term benefit for us is 
too soon to tell, but there is hope there.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you very much, both of you.
    Let me now recognize Senator Inhofe.
    Senator Inhofe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I think we 
covered that pretty well, and Mrs. Lord, in terms of the 
inflation and the effect that it has, and a lot of people do 
not really understand that. Is there anything after the 
comments that were made by Mr. Berteau that you would want to 
add on that particular issue?
    Ms. Lord. I would just quickly say, Senator, that I think 
we have two huge challenges. One is embracing risk and the 
other is moving more quickly. So there are an enormous number 
of authorities that the Congress has given DOD over the past 5 
years or so to more rapidly acquire, to get capability 
downrange into warfighters' hands. Those have been translated 
to both policy and implementation guidance.
    However, it takes strong leadership to encourage the 
Department to use those to be able to move more quickly. So the 
tools are there, but I believe the leadership is required to 
hold the Department accountable for showing how they are using 
other transactional authorities, middle tier of acquisition and 
these other things.
    Senator Inhofe. Okay. That is good. One of my major 
concerns is key munitions. I would ask you, Ms. Lord, how has 
the experience of supplying munitions to Ukraine highlighted 
about our munitions supply chain. Can you specifically explain 
the challenges of Stinger missile production and what more 
should be done to shore up this production line, and what other 
investments in our munitions industrial base are warranted to 
ensure this does not happen again?
    Ms. Lord. Thank you, Senator. The Stinger, which is a 
ground-to-air-launched missile, shoulder-launched, which we 
have sent, probably given public domain information, a quarter 
of our stocks to Ukraine on, is an issue where we cannot, 
within the next couple of years, produce more because we have a 
problem with the government not paying to maintain production 
capacity. When that happens, you have test equipment become 
obsolete and not work. You have supply chains with links broken 
in them. Especially if we had key elements of that supply chain 
supplied by now adversarial countries we have to reconstitute 
that.
    We have a challenge in proactively planning to be able to 
produce these key weapons. Even with the Javelin, which we do 
have a hot production line right now, we are still 5 years out 
to probably developing all the munitions we need.
    So I think the real issue here is how do we make sure that 
we have a resilient supply chain to be able to produce the 
munitions we need, as a Nation and also for our partners and 
allies.
    There are a couple of answers to that, and one, I would 
say, is to begin to think about our releasability and 
exportability regulations. We have been very, very conservative 
with what we allow our closest allies to receive, in terms of 
technical information and manufacturing capability. We know 
that we do not have enough munitions. They end up being the 
bill payer, usually. We could look at countries like Australia 
that have capacity, that have throughput, that have the budget 
to develop indigenous capability, and work more closely with 
them to make sure we have the munitions we need and our allies 
and partners do as well.
    Senator Inhofe. Do you think that we might be criticized 
for maybe holding too much from some of our allies?
    Ms. Lord. Absolutely. General Hyten, retired General Hyten 
and I used to co-chair quite a few committees, and we would 
lament this. I think there has to be a demand signal from 
Congress to not only DOD but State Department, to say that we 
need to be a little bit more pragmatic about the three, four 
levels of technology innovation behind where we are now, that 
we are still not exporting. Huge opportunity there to make up 
some of these shortfalls, leveraging others' manufacturing 
capability.
    Senator Inhofe. That is good. Very good. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator Inhofe.
    Senator Gillibrand, please.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Does DOD still 
intend to implement the Cybersecurity Maturity Model 
Certification 2.0 (CMMC 2.0) requirements next year, and are 
you receiving feedback from the companies in the defense 
industrial base addressing whether the CMMC 2.0 will aid their 
cybersecurity posture?
    Mr. Berteau. Let me take that first, Senator, and then Ms. 
Lord. We were collaborators on 1.0 from opposite sides of the 
table, but now we both sit over here.
    DOD is moving forward. The requirements are in the early 
stages of the rulemaking process, and so we anticipate a 
revised Defense Federal Acquisition Regulation Supplement to 
come out. We have heard various estimates that it could be as 
early as late this spring or as late as a year from now. One of 
the problems or concerns that we have raised from the beginning 
is the threat is not waiting for this implementation, if you 
will, and every day that threat grows.
    I do think, though, that an important element that is 
missing from here--and there is a National Institute of 
Standards and Technology standard, 800-171, which is the basis 
of that cybersecurity regulation--that almost every company I 
know and participates in the defense business today at the 
prime contractor level, whether large, medium, or small, is 
already investing and has a plan on record for compliance with 
and meeting those standards. The real question is, do those 
standards go far enough in order to protect us against the 
evolving threat, and nobody really knows the answer to that.
    In the meantime, of course, there is an existing 
regulation, but its use has been suspended. It is not being 
incorporated in the contracts. But many companies are already 
complying with that. What we do not know is what is the next 
standard we are going to have to comply with, what is the 
timeline in which the flag will go down and you have got to be 
in compliance, and what can you do now to be ready for that 
when you do not know what it is you are going to have to meet, 
what standard you are going to have to meet.
    So there is still a lot of ambiguity there, but a lot of 
people are moving forward anyway.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you. What aspects of the Federal 
Government's contracting process do you recommend adapting to 
better facilitate rapid acquisition and emerging technologies, 
and do you believe that certain defense programs should be 
excluded from the Federal acquisition regulations altogether? 
Related, over the past few years, DOD has used other 
transaction authority contracts or OTAs [Other Transaction 
Authority] to develop prototypes with industry for emerging 
technologies to speed the acquisition process, and how has this 
contracting method been received by the DIB, and should we 
expand the use of this authority?
    Then final and related, I just returned from a trip to 
India and Nepal, and these countries would love to acquire 
United States-produced helicopters and other weaponry. The 
challenges is that it just takes too long, and so it is so 
cumbersome to create any acquisition fluidity with these 
countries, that it is easier to buy from Russia, or not in 
those cases, but China. I think we have to understand that our 
cumbersome nature in acquisitions is highly problematic from 
the way we project power worldwide, but also so that our 
warfighters can have the most lethal and most effective 
technology possible.
    So you can answer those questions in whichever order you 
think is best.
    Ms. Lord. I think that is target-rich, Senator. So let me 
begin here by saying that Congress has written law that allows 
DOD to go fast, and that has been translated into policy and 
implementation guidance, meaning there are procedures there. 
Where we have lagged is making sure that we actually train the 
acquisition workforce on how to use these and that we encourage 
what I call creative compliance. We have a very risk-averse 
workforce that is extremely concerned about media attention or 
congressional hearings pointing out when things did not go 
well. This is leading to a group that does not want to do 
anything other than what there is precedent for before.
    So I think we need to encourage and train to use things, as 
you talk about, the other transaction authority. That is huge, 
because you do not have a key requirement there. You just sort 
of say what you need, and you can move quickly. I think we need 
to give the entirety of the budgets for OTAs right up front and 
let people move fast. That is how the Defense Innovation Unit 
does, and they have been able to work very well with commercial 
entities.
    I see we are out of time here, but I will take that for the 
record because I think there are many more things we could do.
    Mr. Berteau. Mr. Chair, if I could add just one thing. I 
know we are over time.
    Chairman Reed. Go ahead, sir.
    Mr. Berteau. Senator, I think that it is important from our 
perspective to acknowledge that speed does matter a lot here, 
but we need to be able to do it not just for a few but for 
everything, and other transactions is very useful as far as it 
goes, but if you can do it for some you really need to be able 
to do it for all.
    This committee, in the fiscal year 2018 NDAA, put in 
statute for a DOD to define and measure how long it takes, what 
is the procurement lead time. One of PSC's [Professional 
Services Council's] initiatives for this year is we think you 
ought to take a look at how well they are doing, because we 
think they are actually losing ground since you required them 
to do that, rather than gaining ground. I think the spotlight 
of illumination will help speed things up as well.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator Gillibrand.
    Senator Wicker, please.
    Senator Wicker. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary Lord, do 
you have anything you would like to add to the answer to 
Senator Gillibrand's question with regard to what industry is 
asking us for, with regard to technologies being too hard to 
develop, taking too long, and costing too much to procure?
    Ms. Lord. Thank you, Senator. Yes, I would. I actually 
spent all day Saturday in Cambridge, Massachusetts, with a 
number of Harvard Business School and Kennedy School and MIT 
grad students, and a handful of private equity firms, talking 
about putting resources, money, into emerging technologies at 
new companies. The biggest concern there is that manufacturing 
contracts are not being handed out quickly enough. We have a 
long process of going through cooperative research and 
development agreements, some very small, small business 
contracts. But we just need to get out there and start putting 
things on contract. We can do that through the middle tier of 
acquisition as well as using OTAs. I think that the Congress 
demanding metrics, as David was saying, will drive that 
behavior.
    Right now, with not as many politicals in the seats at DOD, 
we do not have a strong demand signal to modernize our 
practices, and we are not training people to utilize them. I 
think it is very, very important for a virtuous business cycle 
here and to get these new developments fielded, because capital 
markets are going to play out. There is going to be 
consolidation. What is not happening is the new companies 
coming up quickly and gaining speed to cross that valley of 
death from a few prototypes to actual fielded solutions.
    So middle tier of acquisition, for instance, just to 
explain that, says if you have a commercial capability or a 
fielded military system, that just through an incremental 
investment could really give us a step function change in 
capability, then we do not have to go through the Joint Staff's 
requirements process that can take up to 2 years. What we can 
do is get the leaders of military services, the Secretaries, or 
the leaders of agencies to document that they do have that 
requirement, and then we can move out on middle tier of 
acquisition very quickly.
    So that is one that I think, during your posture hearings 
this spring, that you might want to ask the services and 
agencies about.
    Senator Wicker. Okay. Let me shift to what we are trying to 
do to help the Ukrainians, and I will ask both of you this. How 
are we doing replenishing our own supplies with those of our 
allies, and how long can we keep this up, providing weapons at 
the current rate? Secretary Lord, you go first, and then we 
will take Mr. Berteau.
    Ms. Lord. I think that we are rapidly--we are using what we 
have that we can give away, and the trouble is that we have a 
2- to 5-year lag to bring those stocks back. We have that 
because we have not invested, as a Nation, in the 
infrastructure, the equipment, and the tooling to have the 
capacity and throughput. If you are in industry, if you do not 
have a clear and consistent demand signal, you cannot justify 
the capital investment without a certain return. So no board of 
directors is going to okay that.
    So I think one of the tools that Congress has, that was 
used to great effect during COVID, is the Defense Production 
Act Title III. So if you could provide the funds to get over 
that barrier, to overcome that activation energy, if you will, 
for the infrastructure--for buildings, for equipment, for 
tooling--then we could more rapidly come back.
    Senator Wicker. Mr. Berteau, that sounds like a real 
problem for our efforts to help our friends in Ukraine win this 
war.
    Mr. Berteau. It is definitely a problem, and I think we 
have yet to see a single contract in place to start that 
replenishment. Discussions are going on, but there is no 
definition of what the requirement is yet, because we still do 
not know how far we are going to draw down. We are drawing 
down, I have seen, in some cases, as much as a third of our 
available stocks--that means not forward deployed but available 
for that--in less than 2 months. If we are one-third down in 
less than 2 months, and we keep that rate up, that is only 6 
months.
    There is no way a contract is going to deliver replacements 
in less than that time, even if we started today. We are 
behind, and you guys should push them to hurry up.
    Ms. Lord. If I may, I will say the Army has a UFR [unfunded 
request] over here, UFR Number 24, that is looking at doing 
exactly this.
    Senator Wicker. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator Wicker.
    Senator Blumenthal, please.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I suggested to 
the Secretary of Defense just about 2 weeks ago, before our 
recess. He sat in the place you are now that we should, in 
fact, invoke the Defense Production Act. He said that it would 
be under consideration. I think we have lost the luxury of time 
here. The closet is bare. Just to give you one example, the 
United States military has probably dispensed about one-third 
of its Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine, one-third of our 
supply given to them. To ramp up from the United States 
military's current buy of about 1,000 missiles per year to 
maximum production of the Javelins would take about 1 year, and 
replenishing United States stocks of those weapons would 
require 32 months.
    Unless the President invokes the Defense Production Act, to 
prioritize deliveries of components to the manufacturer, to 
give that demand signal, we will run out of these key arms, not 
only Javelin missiles but Stinger missiles. We are now 
providing Howitzers and armed personnel carriers. The cupboard 
is empty, or it will be very, very shortly, unless the 
President invokes the Defense Production Act to provide that 
demand signal on an expedited basis.
    The Secretary of Defense has warned that we are in for a 
long fight. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, sitting 
where you are now, said it will be a long slog. But the 
decisions we make now will determine the outcome, because these 
weapons will not magically appear, for us, for our allies, or 
Ukraine. We need to replenish the stocks of our allies as well 
as our own, and provide more for Ukraine.
    So I think the challenge is extraordinarily daunting, and 
it requires this kind of major commitment. So I would like to 
know, Ms. Lord, whether you think right now we should invoke 
the Defense Production Act.
    Ms. Lord. There are a few different titles in the Defense 
Production Act. Title I talks about DO [delivery order] ratings 
and DX [direct exchange] ratings. Everything that the Defense 
Department puts on contract basically gets a DO rating that 
brings it ahead of any other commercial item. The most critical 
items get DX ratings, which pull those items in front of the 
other defense goods. So often some of our long-lead nuclear 
materials and so forth, go there.
    Frankly, we have overused this to the point where it is 
becoming less meaningful, because if everything has a DX 
rating, nothing does, and the challenge is that we have not 
funded, over the years, industry to maintain the supply chains 
to get even 50-cent diodes sometimes. It is not big-dollar 
items. There just is not the manufacturing capacity there.
    So I think DX ratings need to be used judiciously, but I 
think DPA Title III, which allows the Department to move money 
to industry to actually make the capital investments or train 
the workforce or develop the supply chain is where you can 
really move the needle on this issue. So again----
    Senator Blumenthal. If I can just interrupt, because I am 
going to be out of time, moving the needle requires moving the 
money. It is a question of investing the resources. To its 
great credit, the Navy's fiscal year 2023 budget requests over 
$750 million to invest in the submarine industrial base and 
train the workforce. I have been urging for years that we need 
to make this investment. Twenty, thirty million dollars is what 
we have included in past budgets. Seven hundred fifty million 
marks a major leap forward, and it is desperately needed to 
train and retain our engineering and shipyard workforce.
    But if we were to devote the kind of resources that we did 
to COVID, or earlier, in our major conflicts--World War II, the 
Korean War--moving the needle requires moving money and making 
the investment. Would you agree?
    Ms. Lord. Absolutely.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Berteau. Mr. Chairman, if I could add one thing.
    Chairman Reed. Of course, sir.
    Mr. Berteau. I think your key point there, it is important 
to stress we need to start now, even if we are not going to 
finish now, and there are two key signals here. One is to the 
supply chain, not just to the prime manufacturer. The other is 
to the workforce, because as I mentioned, there are a lot of 
gaps in that workforce. They will not come back. They will not 
sign up unless they see the long-term possibility of the 
commitment there. So the faster we get started, the faster we 
will get the supply chain in place and start rebuilding the 
workforce to be able to do the work, even if it does not 
necessarily accelerate the endpoint. You have got to start now.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you very much.
    Senator Ernst, please.
    Senator Ernst. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you 
both for coming in front of the committee today. This has been 
a very, very good and necessary discussion.
    Ms. Lord, I would like to start with you, please. You 
brought up the middle-tier acquisition as well as the valley of 
death, and I would like to dive a little bit more into that, 
because as you said, the middle tier of acquisition was brought 
online to help rapidly develop some of the prototypes within an 
acquisition program and deliver those combat capabilities to 
the warfighter much faster.
    So how should the Department direct employment of the 
middle-tier acquisition strategy, especially when it comes to 
our combatant commanders? Are those COCOMs [combatant command], 
are they using this tool effectively right now, in your view?
    Ms. Lord. Thank you for the question. COCOMs do not have 
acquisition authority. They generate the demand signal. They 
are the ones, obviously, in their AORs [area of 
responsibilities] that understand what is required. They must 
go back to the military services and work through them. I think 
what we are seeing right now is leadership of the military 
services perhaps are not totally aware of all of the mechanisms 
they have to very rapidly acquire, and they need to exercise 
those authorities they have.
    So I think a better-informed COCOM can go and speak to a 
service and ask specifically for what they need and how to go 
about and get it, and that gets back to the issue of training 
the workforce. I think that is one area where the committee 
could help by asking the Department what they are doing to 
train the workforce and what they are doing in terms of keeping 
metrics to look at the utilization of MTAs [major training 
area] and how that has helped to rapidly field.
    Senator Ernst. Good. No, and I appreciate that, because 
then that was going to be my question. How can the COCOMs, 
those commanders, then leverage the middle-tier acquisition? So 
just having effectively trained people at the service branch 
level, you think, and just knowing how to ask the right 
question from the COCOM perspective. Is that correct then?
    Ms. Lord. Yes. I think it is being a smart customer, if you 
will. You do not only tell your supplier what you need but how 
you need to get it, and then hold them accountable for that. 
Again, middle tier of acquisition is somewhat a new muscle that 
is being exercised in the Department, and it takes a number of 
reps and sets for that to be comfortable, and to do it over and 
over. Human nature being what it is, unless leadership is 
demanding that that new muscle be used, it probably will not 
be.
    Senator Ernst. So that is an area that we really need to 
work on then, because it is a tool, and existing tool already, 
that we have available to us, for rapid fielding.
    You brought up the valley of death as well. So as you are 
talking about training and the professionals that need to have 
the appropriate training, do you believe that the acquisition 
professionals that we have at DOD are effectively trained to 
utilize that middle tier of acquisition and make sure that new 
technologies that are being developed do not die in that valley 
of death?
    Ms. Lord. No. I believe that there is enormous opportunity 
to look at lessons learned, as we talked about before, and get 
experiential learning from those PEOs [Program Executive 
Officers] that really did use middle tier of acquisition, and 
for those users, the warfighters that benefitted from that. I 
think we need to communicate, communicate, communicate about 
how effective it was, and do a little bit of what we started a 
few years ago at the Defense Acquisition University, where we 
licensed TED talks, and we had TEDx talks, and we had actual 
warfighters and PEOs stand up and say they problem they had and 
how they solved it, in very meaningful, realistic ways, versus 
having people on transmit mode only, with PowerPoints, you 
know, drilling people to sleep, basically, at Fort Belvoir.
    We need to get this experiential learning and really 
require people to apply that learning in a meaningful way, and 
then go back and see how the user benefitted from that.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you. I will yield back just the little 
bit of time that I have left, but I think that is an important 
point, is that we provide lots of different authorities across 
the board. But unless that user knows how to access and utilize 
those types of authorities we are not any further ahead. So 
thank you very much.
    Mr. Berteau. If I could add something to that, just 
briefly.
    Chairman Reed. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Berteau. I think, Senator, you have got a very 
important point there. There are success stories. Rarely do 
those success stories get a hearing before this Committee. I 
know, from my experience, the times I have been brought up over 
the 40 years to praise me for good work are much fewer than the 
times I have been brought up to criticize me for having bought 
something we did not need, that it turned out we did.
    But there is a real good example of that. The Army has just 
issued its contract for, I think they call it the Squad Attack 
Weapon. Mr. Chairman, I think we used to call it a rifle, and 
they used the middle-tier acquisition authority to do it, and 
they are really proud of the fact that it only took them 2 
years from requirement to contract award. Now 2 years is way 
too long for many of the things we are looking at, but it is a 
remarkable set of progress.
    I would urge this Committee to look for opportunities to 
illuminate and praise successes where people are actually 
implementing it well, and give them the credit for doing that. 
It would go a long way to helping others do that and take the 
risks to do it themselves.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, sir.
    With that let me recognize Senator Hirono, please.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have covered a 
lot of ground, I think, in this hearing. Frankly the DOD 
acquisition process has been a challenge, an ongoing challenge 
in all the years that I have served on this Committee, and I 
think it is going to continue to be an ongoing challenge with 
workforce issues and supply chain issues, and now with the war 
in Ukraine, replenishing our munitions supply.
    So listening to the two of you, what one or two things do 
you think that we need to do immediately in order to address 
whatever, in your view, would be the major acquisition issue 
that we should deal with?
    Secretary Lord, you can start.
    Ms. Lord. I think, Senator, it all comes down to speed, and 
I think if you were in a business and you had these kinds of 
concerns you would have monthly accountability as to what the 
targets were to reach and what your deviation from that target 
was, and why. So I think you might want to look, given the 
conflicts in the Ukraine, what are the top 10 weapon systems 
that you are concerned about, understand current inventories, 
understand what it is going to take to ramp up production, what 
the top three inhibitors to that are, and then just follow that 
to understand progress and what tools are being used to solve 
that.
    Mr. Berteau. Senator, if I could----
    Senator Hirono. Go ahead.
    Mr. Berteau. There are two things, I think, in addition to 
speed, although speed is vital here in today's environment. One 
is to focus on results and outcomes rather than inputs. So much 
of our acquisition process is only focused on inputs--labor 
categories, labor hours, costs from the front end--rather than 
are you going to get the results you need.
    This is not easy, because defining results you are looking 
for is hard, especially if you are looking at new technology 
and what it is going to bring to you. We will see an example of 
a contract that says, I know you are going to develop 
something, you, the commercial world, that I am going to need 3 
years from now. How much is it going to cost me today to buy it 
3 years from now? We cannot answer that question, obviously.
    The second thing is in addition to focusing on outcomes is 
to, in fact, encourage people to take risks, and actually not 
punish them when they have gambled a little bit. One of our 
CEOs said to me, ``I do not need to go to the casino to gamble. 
I gamble every time I submit a proposal, because I do not know 
what is going to happen, and I do not know whether I am going 
to make money or lose money on it.'' We need to have a place 
where it is okay to take risks.
    Senator Hirono. Frankly, I think that is a big order to 
encourage risk-taking, because we have set up systems--and I 
would say particularly in the acquisition space--that is 
intended also to--well, it is to make sure that we are not 
overspending, and yet we see, in just about every platform, 
that there are delays. In building our ships, for example, 
major delays. So on that, easier said than done, and even 
regarding speed.
    Secretary Lord, I liked the idea that we should just be 
very specific about what are the top 10 weapon systems that we 
need to replenish, and maybe identify the issues and get going 
with that, because at least that is something specific. The 
entire acquisition system is not intended to provide speed.
    By the way, we created the Office of Cost Assessment and 
Program Evaluation (CAPE). Mr. Berteau, maybe this is yet 
another entity that focuses more on inputs rather than on 
outcomes. But what is CAPE's role, if any, in the acquisition 
process? Are they not supposed to analyze whether a system is 
needed, whether a ship is needed, make the input analysis and 
provide guidance on what should be done?
    Mr. Berteau. They are supposed to do that. This is actually 
another success story that I think would benefit from some 
illumination. Since we took the old Office of Program 
Assessment and Evaluation and made it the director of CAPE, one 
of the requirements has been that their cost estimates, the 
independent cost estimate that they do for a weapon system 
before it goes into even low-grade initial production or into 
full production, is, in fact, the baseline that DOD will use 
unless the services can prove they have got something better. 
In almost every case, CAPE comes in higher. In almost every 
case, that is what ends up in the budget. In almost every case, 
it is closer to the reality than what the optimistic projection 
was.
    This has been a huge success story, because it has led, 
over the last decade, to a lot less under-funding. You got the 
benefit of this during your time as A&S and AT&L before that. 
It is a big success story, but it needs the reinforcement from 
this Committee with budget requests, so that you recognize the 
validity of those independent cost estimates as well.
    The one place where they are short is in sustainment costs. 
That is where 70 percent of the cost occurs, and we still do 
not pay much attention to that at the upfront, and yet that is 
what eats us alive once a system is delivered and fielded.
    Senator Hirono. I think that is interesting that you 
consider CAPE to be a success story. Would you agree with that, 
Secretary Lord?
    Ms. Lord. I think for what they do they are. It is 
necessary but not sufficient, and where we have issues is the 
fact that when you do development, it is called ``development'' 
because it is not totally predictable. What we do is we do not 
allow reprogramming and line items to be moved around in a 
portfolio approach, so we get very caught up, I think, in 
funding things that are perhaps not as critical now as they 
were when we passed the budget. So I think that lack of 
flexibility during the execution phase is particularly 
problematical.
    But I think there are, in addition to keeping the metrics, 
some easy things that could be done tomorrow that would really 
help our readiness and even help out in the Ukraine. So I know 
we are out of time, but if we have the opportunity with another 
question that would be great to talk about.
    Mr. Berteau. Senator, let me be clear. Their success is on 
the CA, the cost assessment end. They are not nearly as good at 
the point that you raised also in your question, the program 
evaluation, what are the options. That has actually gone down, 
but the cost analysis has gone up.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator Hirono.
    Senator Tuberville, please.
    Senator Tuberville. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very 
much for being here today.
    You know, I am a big believer in the power of innovation 
from small and medium-sized businesses. You know, a few weeks 
ago a constituent of mine contacted me to share his support for 
my priority to help employee-owned companies, called ESOPs. We 
all know that. This individual was a proud employee of a small 
business that was bought by one of the five prime defense 
contractors. He shared that following the sale the company's 
rates to the government tripled, the company's mentality 
shifted from ingenuity and vision to big paychecks and a woke 
agenda, which distracted the employees from their mission of 
supporting the warfighter.
    Unfortunately, this is not an isolated situation. In last 
year's NDAA, I championed a provision to extend small business 
benefits to 100 percent ESOPs, which would give them more 
runway to become medium-sized businesses and compete with the 
giants of the industry.
    Both of you, can you share with me your thoughts on that 
effort and any other ideas you have for helping small 
businesses, defense contractors?
    Ms. Lord. I do not think that small business contractors 
have the time to go through our traditional, formal DOD 
processes, so that is where these OTAs and middle tier of 
acquisition can be utilized. I think the reason that many of 
them end up being acquired is because they cannot have a 
virtuous business cycle through getting enough business to grow 
themselves. So what I would say is we need to put more focus on 
making sure we are flowing dollars quickly to small, innovative 
businesses, because that is where 95 percent of our innovation 
comes from. So we have to hold the Department accountable for 
handing out those contracts and then definitizing them and 
moving the money, because often a contract will be announced 
but then there is this huge pause before the money flows.
    Mr. Berteau. Senator, we hear this same story, not 
necessarily just from ESOPs, although I have worked for a 
couple of ESOPs in my life and they have a very interesting 
dynamic of motivating and rewarding employees. So I think there 
is some positive benefit there. But I think that the story that 
you hear is not unique.
    There are two things that I think would be useful for this 
Committee to spend its time on this year. One is the 
reauthorization of the Small Business Innovation Research 
authority that has expired. I do not know whether DOD has 
submitted a legislative proposal to extend that, but I think 
there is an opportunity for you to improve that act and 
particularly focus on something that has come up, that you 
mentioned earlier, which is the migration of a good idea into 
actually using it, which would benefit many in that regard.
    PSC was actually instrumental in the first passage of that 
act. I was in the Department at that time so I did not give 
them any credit for it at all, but they deserved a lot of 
credit for doing it. That is one thing that you can do.
    The second, I think, is a much more difficult thing, which 
is what happens inside the contracts. I think there it depends 
on the incentives that you give to the programs and the 
contracting officers. Again, from my perspective, if you are 
focusing on outcomes, you are going to focus a whole lot less 
on what the rate ought to be and what the return is, and 
getting the results in place. If you start rewarding companies 
for delivering results as opposed to effort you are going to 
have a big, positive result in that.
    Senator Tuberville. How can the DOD provide small 
businesses with the necessary insight and cybersecurity support 
to successfully contribute to our national security? Small 
businesses--they do not have the money that these big 
corporations have for cybersecurity.
    Ms. Lord. I think there are a couple of ways we could go 
about that. One, there are some resources inside of the 
Department to help and mentor on that. What is a minimal, 
viable cybersecurity posture, if you will? Secondly, I think 
that is one of the ways that small companies can partner with 
larger companies, with a mentor protegee type arrangement, 
which actually benefits not only the small company but the 
large company.
    So I think there are mechanisms to do it, and we need to 
look at how that would really benefit the small companies.
    Mr. Berteau. There are two cybersecurity options, one of 
which Ms. Lord started during her time there, which is can DOD 
provide the framework--the servers, the security structure--so 
that a small business can operate without having to own it 
themselves? Of course, part of the problem is you give up some 
of your privacy if you are participating in a government-
operated. The second is whether or not large contractors can 
provide that structure for their small business subcontractors. 
So they do not actually have to buy the small business. You can 
actually subcontract with the small business. Those are both 
very good ideas and worth pursuing.
    Part of the problem, though, is the government employees do 
not get credit for small business jobs that are subcontractors. 
They only get credit in their annual performance review for 
small business dollars that are primes. I think what we ought 
to do is figure out a way to give--because a small business job 
is a small business job, and innovation can come as a 
subcontractor as well as a prime contractor. I would like to 
see something that rewards the government for all those small 
business jobs, not just some of them.
    Senator Tuberville. One more quick question. In the past 2 
months, the United States sent more Stinger missiles to Ukraine 
than we have manufactured in the last 20 years. The Stinger 
program is in its eighth restart. I will repeat. Eight times we 
have restarted this program. This missile has not been 
modernized in 30 years. What mistakes have we made and 
mismanaged in this munitions program? Just real quick.
    Ms. Lord. We have not kept a hot production line. It is the 
lumpy nature of the funding.
    Mr. Berteau. I think we do have a path now to upgrade the 
Stinger. I believe it will be here in something like 2026 or 
2027. I would suggest that our mistake was we should have done 
that 8 years ago.
    Senator Tuberville. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator Tuberville.
    Senator King, please.
    Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to both of 
you for your extraordinary service to the country.
    Both of you touched on this, I think, in your opening 
statement, but we have not heard much about it since, and that 
is workforce. I had occasion to talk to the leadership of--we 
have two major defense facilities in Maine, the Portsmouth 
Naval Shipyard, which, by the way, is in Maine, and Bath Iron 
Works. Both of them are having serious workforce problems, as 
are virtually every business in the country. One commentator 
said, ``We have a demographic asteroid heading for us, and we 
are not adequately taking account of it.''
    What worries me is that the obvious solution is 
immigration. Every legal path to coming into this country is 
drastically down--green cards, visas, refugees, asylees--and 
right now we have 11 million empty jobs in the country. There 
are 6 million unemployed people. So that means if every single 
unemployed person took a job we would still have a shortfall of 
5 million jobs.
    It seems to me--and I understand the politics of 
immigration. It has been difficult in this country for 150 
years, but we ought to be able to figure out how many people do 
we need to avoid this demographic disaster and keep our 
industries, the defense industry being one of them, operating, 
and figure out a rational immigration policy to match the need 
to the supply.
    Secretary Lord, do you agree with me that we have got a 
serious workforce problem, and the fertility rate is not going 
to solve it. We need to have new people.
    Ms. Lord. Senator King, I absolutely agree with you, and I 
think the whole issue of clearances and allowing people to come 
in and work on defense items is an area ripe for the 
application of some of our emerging technologies. I think it 
would be fantastic to see Congress put something in the next 
NDAA about applying artificial intelligence and machine 
learning to looking at the data and getting at this. Perhaps 
that way we could not only forward the state of the technology 
through applying it but also apply it to a real-world problem 
that, frankly, we are swamped by the data and the numbers to 
deal with.
    Senator King. We should realize that the fact that we are a 
country that people want to come to is an advantage. There are 
countries where they have to lock their people in to keep them 
from leaving. People from around the world want to come here, 
and given the demographic changes that are coming upon us, 
which is a lower birth rate, the low replacement, if we do not 
have people coming from somewhere else we are sunk.
    Ms. Lord. Well, a good place to start might be with 
colleges and universities, undergraduate and graduate programs, 
where yes, we do have some bad actors from adversarial 
competitor nations. However, we send an incredible amount of 
intellectual capital out of this country at the end of many of 
those degrees.
    Senator King. I completely agree, but I hope that this is 
something that the Congress can come to, and I would suggest a 
way to approach it is to say, okay, how many legal immigrants 
do we need and what is a rational system in order to ensure 
that we have that continuous flow in order to support. Because 
our industrial base, if they cannot hire people, they are not 
going to be able to build the ships and the airplanes and what 
we need.
    Mr. Berteau. Senator, may I make one suggestion on that?
    Senator King. Please.
    Mr. Berteau. It is a supply and demand issue, and you have 
tried to address it at the accurate level, and I think that is 
essential. We are not going to solve this problem by people our 
age continuing to work longer and longer. But I also think that 
there are some immediate tasks that this Committee and the 
Congress should look at with respect, particularly, to the 
defense industrial base workforce.
    We have a number of provisions that we have developed at 
PSC with some of our sister associations. We will be providing 
them to the Congress shortly, to fix this. But the most 
important thing is for the costs that companies need to incur 
to hire and retain the workers they have now, needs to be 
covered in their contracts, and right now, in many cases, it is 
not.
    Senator King. Absolutely. But one of the reasons that we 
have got the problem is, again, supply and demand. If there are 
not enough workers you have got to pay them more, and that is 
going to throw the economics out of whack.
    One quick question on a different subject. It seems to me 
that with the industrial base, one of the important things is 
not necessarily what the government buys but how it buys it. 
For example, multi-year procurement. Secretary Lord, I believe 
that multi-year procurement is something that the government, 
that we can do around here, that would vastly support and 
encourage investment and maintain the industrial base. I think 
you used the term ``lumpy.'' I love that term. If we do things 
in a lumpy way, industry cannot respond because you cannot turn 
these large facilities off and on.
    Ms. Lord. That is correct, and, in fact, if there is a 
multi-year contract it drives certainty. It allows the industry 
partner to put their internal research and development as well 
as capital investments into the area in which the government is 
buying. It allows employees to say this is a good place to work 
because I know that the job will be here for at least 5 years, 
or whatever it might be, with options. It also saves the 
government an enormous amount of money because the cost and 
time to renegotiate these contracts is non-trivial. You want to 
get all the terms and conditions up front and then have options 
there.
    But there is going to be less and less inclination to do 
those multi-years if inflation is running rampant and no one 
knows how to predict it and industry cannot recoup losses they 
might have.
    Senator King. Industry is not going to make those 
investments that they need to make in the capital unless they 
have some assured stream of income.
    Ms. Lord. Correct.
    Senator King. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator King.
    Senator Blackburn, please.
    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Lord, I want to ask you about the vaccine mandate and 
the effect that that had when it was extended to our government 
contractors, and the impact that that had. You know, Senator 
King is asking about workforce, and I know with the government 
contractors people could not test weekly. That was not an 
option. It was just you get the shot or you are going to lose 
your job, and we have time-sensitive programs, like the 
Columbia-class submarine. So talk a little bit about that 
vaccine mandate and that impact.
    Ms. Lord. Certainly. I think when it came out, the vaccine 
mandate, there was a short-term benefit because people came 
back to work. However, I think long-term it is problematical 
because for many different reasons some people do not want to 
be vaccinated. It also puts an incredible burden on the 
employer to monitor who is vaccinated, who is not, why they are 
not, is that an acceptable reason. This is all overhead that 
these companies did not plan on.
    Senator Blackburn. It disadvantages many of our specialty 
vendors who are small businesses. Correct?
    Ms. Lord. Absolutely. It puts this huge, bureaucratic 
burden, which is one more reason, as I said in my opening 
statement, people have choices, investors have choices, 
companies have choices whether or not to work in national 
security. The vaccine mandate is one thing that nudged a few 
people out the door and kept many, many from entering.
    Senator Blackburn. I know recently Deputy Secretary Hicks 
had voiced concern about the diminishment of small businesses 
that were competing, and we need them for innovation, 
especially as we look at the realm of cybersecurity. Is that 
correct?
    Ms. Lord. We absolutely do, and we have to make it easy and 
accessible for them to become part of our defense industrial 
base, and with many of the things we do in government one size 
does not fit all.
    Senator Blackburn. I think you are so right on that, and, 
of course, in Tennessee we have Arnold Engineering, which is 
Air Force. We have Fort Campbell, which is Army. You also have 
your Special Ops forces there. Down at Millington we have the 
Naval Air Station. We have Oak Ridge, one of our national labs.
    So this one-size-fits-all vaccine mandate has really 
complicated the environment for some of our most innovative 
companies who can solve some of the issues that we have, 
especially when you need to avail yourselves of technology in 
order to move into hypersonics, to provide the protections, and 
to have that competitive environment.
    So talk to me. As you respond, bring in the DIB, and talk 
to me about what is being done there to foster that competitive 
environment.
    Ms. Lord. I agree that we have a challenge, and I think a 
big part of this is being agile and quick to adapt. So using 
your vaccine mandate example, perhaps that was the right thing 
at one time, but you have to look at the environment around you 
and adapt to that. I think we have to be more adaptive with the 
defense industrial base. Because companies are not going to be 
here to supply our warfighters with the kit they need downrange 
and the services they need if they cannot make sufficient 
margin to be able to reinvest in research and development and 
capital investment and so forth.
    Especially the emerging technology companies that have 
choices in terms of what they can do. They could go work on 
commercial items. But thankfully many of them want to deal with 
national security items. We have to make sure that we get them 
on contract quickly and we check out what they have. We get it 
out in the field and see what works and what does not.
    Senator Blackburn. Well, and I think that that is vitally 
important to do.
    I want to ask you this. I think it was Senator Gillibrand 
that talked earlier about the cumbersome process for 
acquisitions. How many purchasing agents, procurement agents, 
acquisition personnel do you have, and have you been able to 
pull them into kind of a standard, best practice operating 
procedure that has seemed to elude the DOD?
    Ms. Lord. Yeah. So obviously there are tens of thousands of 
them. I have been out of the DOD for over a year so I do not 
know the exact number. However, I will say we have pockets of 
excellence, whether it be the Rapid Capabilities Offices or DIU 
or other people. They do not have special authorities. What 
they have are the best and the brightest, a clear communication 
path to leadership, and the ability to move quickly. What we 
have to do is scale that across DOD.
    Senator Blackburn. I am over time. I have got some 
questions I will submit for the record. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator.
    Let me now recognize Senator Kelly, please.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Lord, as a 
former Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and 
Sustainment you understand how vital semiconductor production 
is to our military capability to respond to many of the global 
threats that we face. Semiconductors are essential to a wide 
range of national defense systems, yet semiconductor 
manufacturing capacity located in the United States has dropped 
from a high of about 40 percent in the 1990s to less than 13 
percent today, while China is investing heavily to try to 
dominate this industry. We also have the added complexity of 
China's interest in, at some point, repatriating or bringing 
back Taiwan and what that would mean to semiconductor capacity.
    That is why last year I negotiated and helped pass a $52 
billion plan to boost semiconductor manufacturing production 
here in the United States, including in my home state of 
Arizona. This plan passed both the House and the Senate, and 
hopefully we are going to get this, the differences in the 
legislation, resolved through conference negotiations, and get 
this across the finish line soon. It is vitally important to 
our national security.
    In your view, how does the semiconductor shortage 
contribute to the global challenges we face, and what more can 
be done to overcome the problems associated with a global 
semiconductor shortage?
    Ms. Lord. The global semiconductor shortage has enormous 
ramifications for the Department of Defense, because almost 
everything produced uses them. First of all, we have to make 
sure that our systems are secure. In other words, they are not 
calling China or somewhere else with information.
    But the real challenge here is that most of the 
intellectual property for these semiconductors actually 
originates in the United States, but for a variety of reasons--
some of them environmental laws, some of them labor laws, some 
of them cost competitiveness of final units--we have offshored, 
over time, to the point where we are no longer in control of 
those supply chains, even the most fundamental, lower-level 
items such as the rare earth elements. We can get them out of 
the ground but to date they are very dirty processes to make 
them usable, and they go in not only semiconductors but lots of 
other things.
    So we, as a Nation, need to prioritize those manufacturing 
processes that give us the key elements. Unless we really take 
the legislation and look at the industrial base and invest in 
it to get the infrastructure, the equipment, the tooling, and 
training the workforce, we are not going to be able to control 
our destinies here. There is more to be done than one companies 
can just do and justify in its business cycle.
    So I am not a big fan of government getting very involved 
in industry, but I believe this is a national emergency, and 
this is a place where we need to make that investment to be 
able to control our destiny.
    Senator Kelly. I agree, and, you know, inexplicably it is 
not just the manufacturing. In the case of semiconductors we 
manufacture here we often send them overseas, China, to test 
them.
    Ms. Lord. Yeah, test and evaluation as well as packaging. 
Two very important parts of that chain, and you are absolutely 
correct. Those test systems are highly engineered, complex 
systems.
    Senator Kelly. Well, I just recently returned from a 
meeting with our partners in Europe and Asia, speaking directly 
with international leaders in Germany and other countries. This 
underscored the opportunity we have to rebuild our global 
supply chains and strengthen our security partnerships in the 
process.
    So Ms. Lord, one of the countries that I visited was India, 
which I understand you have some expertise as you are the Vice 
Chair of the United States-India Business Council. From my 
recent discussions I believe there is a willingness to 
strengthen United States-India security in industry 
partnerships. What thoughts do you have on how we can 
accomplish that, and do you agree this will also benefit United 
States strategic interests at a time when Russia is looking to 
shore up their own ties with India?
    Ms. Lord. India has enormous opportunities but also 
enormous challenges. We have never been able to get the 
overarching security agreements with India that we would hope. 
We have challenges with things like the S-400 being on 
contract, and so forth. Additionally, the challenge of doing 
business, I can tell you, in India, is enormous because of the 
offset requirements there, to be able to provide local 
business.
    So enormous potential, but I would say the opportunity and 
the challenge is to work with the Indian Government to 
streamline policies and procedures, make them consistent so 
that it is a predictable venue for United States business and 
United States Government to invest in.
    Senator Kelly. I agree, and, you know, the opportunity we 
have there is enormous right now, and their ties to the Russian 
Government, Russian military through their Russian hardware 
that they have purchased, two-thirds of the Indian military 
force consists of Russian hardware, which, as a lot of us 
expected, did not perform well on the battlefield. So this is 
an opportunity for us to build some ties through the sale of 
some of our military equipment, which I would like to see.
    So thank you. I am over time, so my apologies, Mr. 
Chairman. I do have some other questions I want to submit for 
the record.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator Kelly. Senator Hawley, 
please.
    Senator Hawley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to both the 
witnesses for being here.
    Mr. Berteau, if I could just start with you. Some of our 
country's largest service firms, including Deloitte, McKinsey, 
I think, others, maintain a very significant presence in China, 
even as they are pursuing and executing contracts with the 
Department of Defense. Should we be concerned about that?
    Mr. Berteau. The upfront optics of that are obviously not 
very attractive at all, and so the real operative question is 
what are the protections in place that we need to have in order 
to preserve any risk from coming out of that. In the case of 
some of these companies, they are actually a foreign-owned 
company, in that they have a full, dedicated protection against 
foreign ownership control and interest. The policies are there. 
The procedures are there. The structures are there. The 
execution and implementation is what has to be monitored very, 
very carefully in that regard.
    Partnership companies like those present challenges to us 
across the board. I do believe that DOD has the national 
security procedures and processes in place, and structures. It 
is the execution and monitoring that becomes absolutely 
critical in that regard. We have firewalls. We have to make 
sure they are clear and high. I know you wrestle with those 
every day internally.
    Senator Hawley. Should it be a conflict of interest for a 
company like Deloitte, let us say, or McKinsey, to do work for 
the Chinese Government and/or its proxies while also doing work 
for the Department of Defense?
    Mr. Berteau. We have looked at the legislation that has 
been introduced in this body on that regard and we think there 
are some very serious concerns that do need to be addressed 
there. But we also need to make sure that America can still get 
the capability and competence of the workers we need as well. 
So it is that balancing act that becomes critical there. I am 
not sure if it is directly a conflict of interest. There is 
definitely a conflict, there is definitely interest, but there 
may be a better way of getting at it.
    Senator Hawley. Yeah. Well, this is pretty concerning, I 
would say. Let me just ask you. I mean, you are the head of the 
Professional Services Council. What advice would you give to 
companies like Deloitte that are doing business in China, 
including with the Chinese Government and its proxies, despite 
the threat that government, its proxies, and the Chinese 
Communist Party pose to this Nation?
    Mr. Berteau. We are actually looking, and we are working on 
a white paper of what it is that those companies need to do 
better in order to bring the kind of comfort that you need to 
have out of that. I do not have something ready to deliver to 
you today, but we will be happy to take that.
    Senator Hawley. Yeah. Fair enough. Thank you.
    Ms. Lord, let me ask you about the Stingers issue, which 
Senator Tuberville raised a little bit ago. Obviously, Stingers 
are in high demand in Ukraine. They may well be in high demand 
in Taiwan. We need, of course, to maintain a robust supply 
ourselves. You said that you think one of the problems here is 
we have not kept a hot production line. What do we need to do 
now to accelerate production of the Stingers, and other similar 
capabilities that we are going to need for frontline states 
like Ukraine and Taiwan but that we are also going to need for 
ourselves, all at the same time?
    Ms. Lord. In order to have production you need facilities, 
equipment, tooling, material, and a workforce. So what we need 
to do is incentivize industry to do that through long-term 
contracts that allow them to make those investments, and a 
reasonable return on that investment, so that they will stay in 
business. So long-term, clear demand signals, along with, if we 
really need to get this jump-started I would say some DPA Title 
III-type investment to stand up lines, train the workforce, and 
get the supply chain going.
    Senator Hawley. How much of it, in your opinion and in your 
experience, is about incentivizing industry versus overcoming 
hurdles within our own acquisitions bureaucracy? Can you speak 
to that?
    Ms. Lord. Oh, I think that it is a Venn diagram that is 
very--well, there is a huge amount of overlap, and I think, 
again, we have an acquisition system that can do these things 
quickly. We are not incentivizing our workforce to do that. To 
David's point earlier, how often does this Committee have a 
hearing calling out and trying to understand all the fantastic 
applications of other transaction authorities and middle tier 
of acquisition, what that did to speed up the acquisition 
process, what that did to help the user downrange? We need to 
communicate the art of the possible and then encourage it, 
versus admiring the problem.
    Senator Hawley. My concern on this, to be clear where I am 
coming from here, it is not just related to the Stingers. I 
understand we are also having production issues with the LRASMs 
[Long-Range Anti-Surface Missiles] and other advanced munitions 
we are going to need if we are in an environment, and I think 
we are, where deterrence is the name of the game, and 
deterrence by denial----
    Ms. Lord. Absolutely.
    Senator Hawley.--both in the Indo-Pacific, also going 
forward in Europe. We have got to be able to deter our near-
peer competitors, and in the case of China, frankly, our peer 
competitors. In order to do that our competitors--our enemies, 
frankly, our opponents--have got to believe and got to know 
that we have the kind of capabilities that we are going to 
need, and we can supply our partners and allies with the 
capabilities they are going to need in short order.
    So to me, getting this right is vital to being able to 
execute deterrence by denial, which we have got to do going 
forward.
    Ms. Lord. Exactly, and one of the things that we need to 
consider is when you go down those various weapon systems, 
three, four, five, six levels down to supply chain, you find 
all of a sudden the family tree does not branch anymore and 
that you have some critical semiconductor components and so 
forth. So it gets back to some of these fundamentals that 
Senator Kelly was asking about as well. We have got to fix the 
fundamentals.
    Senator Hawley. I have got a few more questions for each of 
you, which I will submit for the record. Thanks so much for 
being here.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator Hawley.
    Senator Manchin, please.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to both of 
you for your service and thank you for being here today.
    Let me start on just a couple of things. I know it has been 
talked about as far as supply chains and all of that. This war 
that we are supplying most of the armament that they are 
needing to defend themselves in Ukraine, if it continues for 
any period of time, say a year or longer, how does that 
threaten our security?
    Ms. Lord. It is a huge threat to our security. I think you 
can go back to the supply chain report we did in 2018, in 
responding to an Executive order, where we called out all of 
these areas of our defense industrial base where we either had 
very fragile supply chains, we were single sourced, or we were 
dependent on an overseas, unfriendly nation.
    So I think, frankly, this is our Sputnik moment here with 
Ukraine, relative to our capacity and throughput to generate 
what we need in terms of weapons systems.
    Senator Manchin. Are they looking down the road right now? 
Are you all looking down the road, knowing that we have to 
resupply ourselves for what we are basically sending over to 
Ukraine?
    Ms. Lord. I think that is clear within the Department, 
but----
    Senator Manchin. Has that acquisition started yet? Is there 
any acquisition going on right now to replace immediately?
    Ms. Lord. I am not inside the Department anymore. I am 
outside the Department. However, there is a bit of activity. 
The Army has a UFR up here on the Hill about Stingers. There is 
a bunch of activity, but it takes money. There is only so much 
reprogramming, redirecting.
    Senator Manchin. I am thinking the money we are sending, 
the goods we are sending over would be resupplied.
    Mr. Berteau. Senator, about a week and a half ago the 
Defense Department posted what is called a RFI, request for 
information, soliciting input from companies. I think it is due 
May 6th, so it is a very rapid turnaround, with respect to 
Ukraine. What it does not address, though, is something that 
you hinted at. We are not only sending equipment to Ukraine, we 
are oftentimes replacing equipment that other countries are 
sending to Ukraine. In many cases they are sending them Russian 
equipment, and we are replacing them with American equipment. 
That is part of the demand as well. I do not believe it is 
covered in the RFI. So we have only made the baby steps here.
    Senator Manchin. I am trying to find out also, are the 
countries that are basically supporting, NATO allies, the same 
as we are in Ukraine right now? Are we responsible to send that 
to them and replace it free of charge, or are they buying it?
    Mr. Berteau. In many cases those are still being 
negotiated.
    Senator Manchin. Okay. If I can ask you also about, when 
you have contractors, first of all, from cyber, most of our 
hacks come from the bottom up. So let us say that we have a 
major contractor, one of the big boys--I will not name any 
names but the big ones. They are pretty much hardened. But the 
subs that they have are not as hardened. A lot of the subs do 
not want to be tied to the main because then the main will do 
what they are going to do and knock them out of the contract.
    So it is a real dilemma that we are in right now, and the 
back door of hacking, this back door, has been prolific. So do 
you all have any thoughts on that? With that I would ask you 
all because my time is running out here very quickly, 
commercial markets. Okay. If there is a contractor in the 
commercial market and they are priced in the commercial market, 
and then they also are providing almost the same services in 
the industrial, for our defense, how come they do not make 
those prices available to us? Why is it a whole other pricing 
system and we never call them on it?
    Ms. Lord. Well, to answer the second question, we may 
sometimes buy the same products but our cybersecurity 
requirements, our physical hardening requirements, might be 
different. So although it looks the same it might not be.
    I will say that quite often industry tries to get 
commercial pricing because it is easier for them just to go off 
of a price list. But often the Department's regulations require 
a cost-based assessment, building up from the cost, and the 
exercise of going through that to demonstrate why everything 
costs what it does costs money, puts a wrapper of overhead and 
G&A [General and Administrative] on it.
    Senator Manchin. I mean, we just put so much red tape 
involved in this, trying to secure something, and people are 
just so absolutely aghast at us continuing to throw money away. 
I mean, that is where you have got the toilet seats and the 
hammers and all those. Remember all the comparisons they used 
for years and years?
    Ms. Lord. That comes back to training the workforce. We 
have the authorities. Congress provided them to DOD. We have 
translated those into policy and implementation guidance or 
procedures. We need to train the workforce to use those and 
then hold the workforce accountable. That needs to happen at 
DOD senior levels as well as here.
    Mr. Berteau. Part of that training, Senator, is we 
frequently, in DOD, will say we want to commercial but we would 
like you to tweak it just a little bit so we can use it. Of 
course, when you have got a production line of a million a 
month and DOD is only going to buy 100, there is no benefit in 
that tweaking.
    Senator Manchin. Is President Dwight Eisenhower's statement 
still true today--beware of the industrial complex?
    Mr. Berteau. You know, the original draft of that actually 
said beware of the military congressional industrial process.
    Senator Manchin. Oh, congressional.
    Mr. Berteau. They took the congressional out of it, but it 
is still worth paying attention to.
    Senator Manchin. He had it right, did he not? Thank you. 
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator Manchin.
    Senator Rounds, please.
    Senator Rounds. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First let me begin 
by just thanking both of your for your continued service to the 
Nation, both within the DOD and within the private sector. Ms. 
Lord, I want to thank you for working so closely with me in 
2020, to execute the Defense Production Act authorities in 
response to the worst days of COVID-19. I think we made a 
difference.
    To both of you, I would like to ask a question about what I 
see is a very disturbing trend of consolidation within the 
defense industrial base over the last 20 to 30 years. This 
results in less competition, which slows innovation, decreases 
performance, and impacts pricing so that the government and the 
American people do not get the best bang for the buck. 
Sepcifically, 90 percent of missiles that DOD purchases come 
from three companies. Fixed-wing aircraft are provided by three 
companies, down from eight, and satellite contractors are down 
to four, also from a previous high of eight.
    The pandemic and recent supply chain disruptions have had 
particular impacts on small and mid-sized businesses that DOD 
relies on. My question is, what can we do to increase 
competition and encourage small and mid-sized businesses who 
often are at the cutting edge of innovation, to compete to 
provide with us for the best and strongest national defense 
that we can possibly afford?
    Ms. Lord. Senator, I will quickly answer that and then pass 
it along to David. It all comes down to predictable 
procurement. If you do not have a clear demand cycle, and you 
do not know what is being purchased over the next 5 years, you 
cannot invest your resources, whether that be your plant, your 
equipment, your tooling, your people, in something where you do 
not know what the return is. Because there has been such an 
erratic demand cycle and purchasing cycle, companies start to 
go out of business or they put themselves up for sale.
    So the most critical thing that the government could do is 
be very clear about how much of what is going to be procured 
over multiple years, and then have long-term, multi-year 
contracts.
    Senator Rounds. Mr. Berteau?
    Mr. Berteau. Senator, you have raised some absolutely great 
points, and we have been wrestling with this for a long time. 
Let us look first at the question of is there enough demand to 
support the supply. Your missiles were a great example. A big 
part of the reason why there are only three companies 
delivering on that 90 percent is we are not buying enough 
missiles to keep more companies in business, from a production 
line point of view.
    I actually think that part of the answer to the concern 
that has been raised across the board of replenishment here is 
that we do need to buy more, and if you buy enough you will get 
more competition.
    The second thing is that oftentimes the requirements are so 
specific that only one or two companies are going to be able to 
meet the requirements. So if we expand the flexibility of the 
requirements so more companies can bid, then it will go 
forward.
    The third is that about half of what DOD spends its 
contract dollars on is not products. It is services. That 
sounds pretty straightforward, but the reality is that the 
migration of technical capability that the government needs, 
they buy a lot more today as a service that they used to buy as 
a product. Two big examples are access to space. When the 
government no longer owns the launch vehicles it is the private 
sector that is providing it. So you are just buying the launch 
as a service. But we still maintain a mentality as if we are 
buying a product. Software. I cannot remember the last time I 
actually held software in my hand, and it is a floppy disk, and 
I am not even sure I have a machine that could read it if I 
did. So we are really just buying it as a service. But our 
procedures still are as if it is a product, so we are not 
taking advantage of that.
    The third is that for small businesses, in particular, we 
put these contracts out where every small business has to be on 
this government-wide contract because that is where the work is 
flowing, but we often put so many on there that there is not 
enough work that flows through to keep them, and give them even 
the return to make the money back that they spent on putting 
the bid in place. So we need to rationalize our supply and 
demand in order to get forward there. It is really across the 
board. It is not just a few big companies at the top.
    Senator Rounds. Does the Federal Government or the 
Department of Defense have the capability to assist small 
contractors in their need to be at their best with regard to 
cybersecurity issues? Today it seems like our larger 
contractors, we can hold them accountable, but the smaller 
contractors, in many cases, may have excellent capabilities 
specific to a particular product but do not have the 
capabilities in-house to take care of their cyber protection 
needs.
    Would it help if we established a process to assist them in 
their cybersecurity needs?
    Mr. Berteau. Well, there are two ways to do that, and it is 
really critically. So you have really got a dilemma there. You 
want the companies you do business with to be secure against 
cyberattack, and that is not just in America but around the 
world as they go forward. At the same time, you do not want to 
burden them with the costs that, in fact, it puts them out of 
business in order to do that. We hear this from our member 
companies all the time.
    So there are two ways to get at that. One is, in fact, for 
the government to provide some type of support. It might be the 
computer servers that you are operating on, so that you can 
have your systems in place, and the government is part of that 
protection. The problem is this is a huge cost for the 
government, and frankly, I am not optimistic that the 
government can do this more effectively than the companies 
themselves can.
    The second is for that to be a reimbursable cost. So, in 
fact, for the companies to incur it, right now if they spend 
that money--I have got a small company, maybe $20 million a 
year, it is costing them $100,000 to put the cybersecurity in 
place. All that does is increase their rates--and this is 
overhead. This is not direct charge--it increases their rates 
to the point where they are not competitive in winning a 
contract. So boy, talk about a beggar's choice here, right?
    So if the government actually could figure out a way to 
cover those costs to maintain the competition and get the 
security we need, that would be a big plus.
    Senator Rounds. I think we agree it is a problem, but I am 
not sure that we have resolved it with the appropriate answer 
yet.
    Mr. Berteau. As I mentioned before, the threat keeps 
increasing every single day.
    Ms. Lord. This is an area where the industrial policy team 
at DOD could probably more clearly articulate the avenues to be 
followed.
    Mr. Berteau. What DOD has done is they have migrated the 
responsibility from your old shop to now the CIO, the chief 
information officer shop. Sometimes reorganization does not 
speed up results.
    Senator Rounds. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator Rounds.
    Senator Kaine, please.
    Senator Kaine. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to the 
witnesses. Really important hearing, and my colleagues have 
asked a number of really good questions.
    Secretary Lord, I want to start with you, because you 
talked about the need to scale up things that are working. You 
mentioned DIU, and I wanted to ask about the Defense Innovation 
Unit. DIU has had some real success. They have brought 100 new 
vendors to the DOD. They have facilitated more than $3.7 
billion in contracts.
    It would seem that DIU would fit very closely with 
President Biden's recently released report on safeguarding our 
national security by promoting competition in the defense 
industrial base. That has five key recommendations, and one is 
increasing new entrants and increasing opportunities for small 
businesses. But in my examination of DIU, and I have visited 
the Silicon Valley operation, I do not really think the 
Department or service leadership are really pushing investment 
in that venue.
    You could talk about other authorities. I think both of you 
mentioned the other transaction authorities that we have 
provided.
    So if what we want to do is promote innovation and speed, 
and if we have credible venues that have proven their ability 
to do that, why are we not using them more? How do we scale up 
use of these innovation acquisition strategies?
    Ms. Lord. My opinion is, one, we do not reward individuals 
or groups for using these different authorities to innovate and 
move quickly, and secondly, we do not do a particularly good 
job of training the individuals who need to use these 
methodologies, as well as their leadership, about the art of 
the possible. So again, if it is not being required it might 
not be paid attention to.
    So I think this is one of those issues that need to be 
unpacked, so to speak, so it is very clear that secretaries of 
the services, leaders of agencies, have an expectation that a 
certain amount of their procurements will go through these 
methods, and then measure what the progress is being made, how 
fast it is. Because it is just not getting things on contract. 
It is bringing it over the finish line and then making sure it 
moves on to a sustainable situation.
    Senator Kaine. Mr. Berteau, do you want to add to that? How 
can we take existing strategies that can lead to innovation and 
speed and actually make them work? We do not need to create new 
paths. We just sometimes need to use the ones that we have in a 
more effective way.
    Mr. Berteau. I am going to try not to get too wonky here, 
but you are a man with whom I can get wonky with occasionally. 
I just had a discussion with a contracting officer yesterday 
that just floored me. The core of the Federal acquisition 
regulation and contracts, the one that is burdened with the 
most regulations and the most processes, is part 15, and that 
is the standard, do everything by the book, all the way 
through.
    This contracting officer said to me--I said, ``Why aren't 
you using,'' and I mentioned another part that has a lot more 
flexibility, and he said, ``I am more comfortable with the one 
that tells me everything I need to do and I do not have to make 
any decisions on my own.''
    Senator Kaine. Wow. Wow.
    Mr. Berteau. So the point I made earlier, if we do not 
actually promote people taking a risk but actually evaluate and 
promote them, give them credit for it, that is the only way we 
are going to get out of it.
    Ms. Lord. I call it creative compliance. You do not want 
all of these acquisition officers to be a pilot, or pilots. You 
want them to check off every single thing on the checklist. You 
want your acquisition professionals to look at the art of the 
possible, do just enough to be compliant, but move on. I do not 
think we are rewarding that behavior.
    Senator Kaine. See, that is very, very important.
    Mr. Berteau. If those people get promoted, the rest of the 
group will notice it, and they will start doing it.
    Senator Kaine. When I was governor of Virginia, my Highway 
Department folks, they kind of felt like they could never get 
in trouble for not making a decision, and the only way they 
would ever get in trouble was making a decision, and that 
became a pathology that I think is not unique to the Virginia 
Highway Department.
    Protecting the U.S. defense industrial base is not just a 
DOD responsibility. So the Department of Commerce has a Bureau 
of Industry and Security, and here is their mission statement. 
They are responsible for, ``advancing U.S. national security, 
foreign policy, and economic objectives, by ensuring an 
effective export control and treaty compliance system and by 
promoting continued U.S. leadership in strategic 
technologies.''
    Based on your opinion, do the DOD and Commerce work 
together in a good fashion on this? Because I am not so much 
aware of what Commerce is doing in this space, but they may be 
able to be helpful for the DOD.
    Ms. Lord. Yeah, I am not sure Commerce is well staffed in 
that area with individuals with significant backgrounds. I will 
tell you that while I was at DOD we took one of their standout, 
stellar civilian employees, Michael Vaccaro, and brought him 
over to Industrial Policy at DOD for many reasons, but one was 
to have that reach-back and interagency. But I will tell you, 
Commerce, DOD, and State really need to work together to make 
sure that we become much more contemporary with our 
releasability and exportability standards. We need to work with 
nations like Australia to help us help ourselves in terms of 
our strategic competitions.
    Senator Kaine. Thank you. I am over time and I see Senator 
Scott chomping at the bit over there.
    Mr. Berteau. I have some good news on that point, though, 
on the BIS [Bureau of Industry and Security], if I may indulge 
myself on that, Senator.
    Senator Kaine. Go ahead.
    Mr. Berteau. The United States Senate, just last month, 
confirmed a long-time defense expert as the Under Secretary of 
Commerce over at BIS, Alan Estevez. You are going to have a 
much better time having that work together going forward. But I 
do not expect immediate results tomorrow.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator Kaine.
    Senator Scott, please.
    Senator Scott. I think Senator Kaine probably had the exact 
same experience when he was governor. You have all these 
examples where people--how we bought stuff made no sense. So 
let me give you a story. We have hurricanes in Florida, so we 
have pre-landfall contracts with the people who do debris 
pickup. Whether the Federal Government should be paying part of 
it, they pay 75 percent of it, minimum, and as much as 90 
percent.
    The local contracts were $7, $8.50 a cubic yard. Guess what 
the Corps of Engineers was?
    Mr. Berteau. Triple.
    Senator Scott. Seventy-two dollars.
    Mr. Berteau. Ten times.
    Senator Scott. It is even better. The same company.
    So just think about it. Let us say the number is $200 
billion that you are buying. How much money, if we actually 
bought like the private sector bought, could we save? How much 
money is there out there? How much could we save? If we did 
like a company like Textron or how you guys buy things, or 
anybody, a normal private company?
    Ms. Lord. It is probably going to be at least 50 percent, 
but we have done it to ourselves with all the bureaucratic 
regulations we have. So I think what we need to do is shift 
away from all of the very cumbersome regulations we have for 
nuclear reactors and think about when we are buying a shoulder-
launched missile, what the difference is, and use only those 
regulations we need. We need to recognize those individuals who 
use that creative compliance in hearings like this to call out 
the fact that that is the behavior everyone wants to see.
    Mr. Berteau. Senator, I was part of a Defense Science Board 
study that looked at that exactly question back in the 1990s, 
and we concluded, and I think the analysis was arithmetically 
pretty accurate, that it was in the range of 30 to 35 percent. 
Then I had the privilege of trying to translate that into what 
people would actually have to do to achieve that money, and the 
number one thing people had to do was get rid of government 
bureaucrats. As you know, in your experience as governor, this 
is not the easiest thing to do. So that is where we ran aground 
very, very quickly. I actually got subpoenaed and hauled up 
before the United States Congress because I was going to get 
rid of four of those bureaucrats.
    Senator Scott. So did either of you ever come and say--let 
us say it would be a minimum of the numbers you have got, 30 
percent, so $200 billion? That is $60 billion that we can be 
spending on something else. Did you ever come in front of us 
and say, ``I need this'' and Congress did not give it to you?
    Mr. Berteau. I have actually had pretty good success--it 
was a long time ago--in coming before Congress, and they did 
let us do it. When we consolidated the Defense Commissary 
Agencies in 1990, we ended up saving about 30 percent of the 
overhead of that operation in the space of 2 or 3 years.
    But here is the problem--that is a one-time savings. It is 
gone, and then you have still got to maintain the momentum.
    Ms. Lord. I think also Congress has given the Department 
many authorities. They have been translated through policy and 
implementation guidance. What we have not demanded, if you 
will, is that those new processes and procedures be utilized as 
much as possible, and hold the teams accountable for using 
them. It is much safer--you are not going to get in trouble if 
you do it the same old way you have always done it, and so 
there is a culture shift that has to happen, by rewarding those 
who are doing things in the streamlined ways that they can.
    Senator Scott. Were you able to do that when you were 
there?
    Ms. Lord. In small pockets we were able to do it in a 
number of areas, but frankly, it took certain personalities who 
were personally invested in it. I am not sure that the senior 
leadership, other than myself, in the Department really 
understood the differences in the different mechanisms and knew 
enough to hold their teams accountable.
    Senator Scott. Have you ever outsourced a whole bunch? I 
mean, in the private sector I used to--I am a business guy--if 
I could outsource the whole operation, if it was not a core 
function, I mean, why did I do it, right? So if it is not a 
core function of government--the core function of, I think, the 
military is to be able to be a lethal military, not to be the 
best buyer of anything.
    Ms. Lord. Right. So I think some really great examples of 
outsourcing and using contemporary contracting practices are 
launched as a service. That has been incredibly successful. ISR 
[Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance] is a service, 
with contractor-operated, contractor-owned systems. However, 
there is a fear factor there about giving that away, and so 
that is the cultural issue.
    In this day and age, we were just saying earlier, we buy 
many things as a service. It is a far more efficient way to do 
it and will save us money. But that is very foreign to a lot of 
DOD, and they have got to get comfortable with it.
    Senator Scott. Thank you.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator Scott.
    Senator Rosen, please.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you, Chairman Reed, Ranking Member 
Inhofe--I know he is not here--but it is a really important 
hearing, and it has been really interesting to hear both of you 
speak on so many topics. I appreciate your work and you being 
here.
    I want to focus a little bit on the microelectronics 
shortage, because there are a lot of defense businesses in my 
state of Nevada. They have discussed with me their challenges 
with the supply shortage of microelectronics. Such shortages 
not only affect the U.S. computer, numerically controlled CNC 
[Computerized Numerical Control] manufacturing base, which 
provides machine tools to all major sectors of the U.S. 
economy, but also impacts U.S. national security and economic 
interests overall.
    So while DOD has established a Department-wide supply chain 
resiliency working group to address these systemic barriers 
limiting microelectronics supply chain, several of my Nevada 
delegation colleagues and I recently sent a letter to the 
Administration urging them to take a more aggressive approach 
to resolving the CNC manufacturing base crisis, because that is 
absolutely critical.
    So can both of you speak to how the CNC manufacturing base 
crisis is affecting the rest of the defense industry, what 
steps the Federal Government should do to increase and 
stabilize the supply of microelectronics available to the CNC 
manufacturing base? Secretary Lord, we can begin with you.
    Ms. Lord. Thank you, Senator. The primary issue is that 
over decades we have outsourced our microelectronics or 
semiconductor industry. Why did we do that? One was 
environmental reasons. Another was cost of labor. Another was 
cost of materials. The travesty is most of the intellectual 
property that goes into that is developed here, yet we have 
devices made offshore, even some made here and tested and 
packaged offshore.
    So we are at the point where we do not have the industrial 
capacity and throughput, and it takes an enormous investment to 
get that capacity and throughput. So what I believe we are 
going to need to see are appropriations. We need to see money 
that is going to allow industry to invest, whether those are 
long-term contracts or potentially even DPA Title III 
investments.
    This is a problem that did not happen overnight. It 
happened over a long time, and for industry to be able to get 
the supply it needs, the trusted supply it needs, we have to 
reestablish that supply chain, but businesses are not going to 
reestablish themselves unless they can make a profit and be an 
ongoing concern. David?
    Mr. Berteau. Senator, I have a long history with this. 
Senator Kelly earlier mentioned that we went from a high of 40 
percent of microelectronics domestic capacity in the 1990s down 
to what it was today. It was not 40 percent in the 1980s. It 
was in the low 30s. We had a program called Simatek 
[phonetic]--I ran the funding to support that--that invested in 
the technology capabilities to bring the broader industry 
along.
    The problem is DOD is such a small part of that. You see 
that from your folks as well. In 2004 and 2005, I ran the study 
for the National Academies on printed circuit boards, which is 
a subset of that, and we concluded two important things, and 
one of them is exactly yours. One is DOD will have to spend 
more money, and you are going to have to make them do that, 
because left to their own devices that money will go somewhere 
else. It is not important enough because we do not buy enough.
    The second is because we are always one or two generations 
behind, we are not drawing from the latest technology, so we 
have to figure out how to do two things--get what we need and 
sustain innovation. I think there is a huge technical challenge 
of mapping the generational gap that we have, because it takes 
us so long to buy anything, with the technical capabilities we 
need to sustain and support.
    So it is not only money for what we need today, it is money 
for what we need tomorrow. There is nobody in charge of doing 
that.
    Senator Rosen. Well, and I would argue with the war in 
Ukraine going on, we are talking about backfilling the supplies 
that we have already sent, having those CNC microelectronics it 
is important because all those things are made, machined that 
way, with those computer numerical control.
    Mr. Berteau. Yeah. The one thing we do not really build 
into our budget is the cost of not doing it.
    Senator Rosen. That is right.
    Mr. Berteau. Right, because that cost is a future cost. The 
cost today is what we need to invest. You just need to keep 
reinforcing that.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I would also like to take--oh, 
can I finish my question? I am the last one here. Thank you. 
Senator Rounds talked about cybersecurity needs, and I just 
want to talk about--it is not just enough to talk about the 
needs. We have to talk about the people who actually do the 
work.
    Last year, in last year's Senate NDAA, as reported out of 
this Committee, it included my Civilian Cybersecurity Reserve 
Act. It is bipartisan legislation I introduced with Senator 
Blackburn to create a civilian cyber reserve that ensures 
additional cyber capacity at greatest times of need, just like 
we have other reserves. So they are people who work, whether 
they are engineers or programmers, not hackers but people who 
do cybersecurity, do all of those things. The idea behind the 
initiative is we cannot go it alone. We need to bring those 
people in, help us at a great time of need. They can do 
training, et cetera, et cetera, and then go back to the private 
sector.
    So I just think that is really important. It is a voluntary 
program. I was wondering what you think we could do with that. 
What are some improvements that could be made to the defense 
industrial base cybersecurity program that would use this kind 
of public-private collaboration to take that private sector 
expertise and bring it to us?
    Ms. Lord. I believe private-public partnerships are 
critical for our national security and the cybersecurity 
reserve is a great step that way.
    I will tell you, I do not think the greater community 
understands that program. I am not, to the degree that it has 
been implemented. So I would strongly suggest that you go on a 
communications campaign about that and that you partner with a 
series of universities and colleges, because I think it 
benefits all of us and it is a great idea.
    Mr. Berteau. I think the National Academy of Public 
Administration just did a report for the Department of Homeland 
Security and the CISA operation there that concluded that 
something on the order of 600,000 jobs needed in the 
cybersecurity industry. I am not familiar with the 
implementation of your legislation but it is clearly not enough 
and we need to do more in that regard.
    We have talked a lot about the overall workforce issues. 
This is a subset. It may be one of the most important subsets.
    Senator Rosen. I think so too. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chairman Reed. Thank you, Senator Rosen, and I want to 
thank the witnesses for their extraordinarily insightful 
testimony, for their public service which has been remarkable.
    This is a fundamental issue for our national security. It 
is not as appreciated as many other issues. I hope that we can 
bring the focus of this Committee onto the issues that we have 
discussed today. Both in the short run and the long run, we are 
going to need a very, very vigorous and dependable industrial 
base.
    With that I would again like to thank you, and I adjourn 
the hearing. Thank you very much.
    [Whereupon, at 11:34 a.m., the Committee adjourned.]

    [Questions for the record with answers supplied follow:]

                Questions Submitted by Senator Jack Reed
                
                        mergers and acquisitions

    1. Senator Reed. Ms. Lord and Mr. Berteau, do you believe The 
Department of Defense (DOD) has sufficient data and analysis tools to 
maintain insight into a baseline for the defense industrial base (DIB) 
to improve the ability to proactively assess the impact of any merger 
or acquisition actions?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. In response to these two questions, the long history 
of DoD assessments of proposed mergers and acquisitions shows first, 
that DoD considers each proposed action as a separate action for 
assessment and decision and second, that government-wide decisions may 
not agree with DoD's position.
    In the first question, PSC suggests that the Committee require DoD 
to report not only on the baseline assessment of the defense industry 
but more importantly on what the goals of such assessments should be. 
Too often, mergers are assessed against the impact on DoD contracts. I 
respectfully suggest that they should also be assessed against U.S. 
long-term national interests. Competition in domestic markets needs to 
be balanced against competition globally.
    Perhaps equally important is the enforcement of compliance with 
covenants to which companies agree as the basis for approval of a 
merger or acquisition. Anecdotal evidence indicates instances where 
companies do not comply with such covenants. The Committee might 
request a report from DoD to determine the degree to which this is a 
problem.

    2. Senator Reed. Ms. Lord and Mr. Berteau, do you believe DOD has 
authority to block any mergers and acquisition of contractors they 
believe would cause harm to the defense industrial base. If DOD does 
not, what would this authority look like?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. In response to these two questions, the long history 
of DOD assessments of proposed mergers and acquisitions shows first, 
that DoD considers each proposed action as a separate action for 
assessment and decision and second, that government-wide decisions may 
not agree with DoD's position.
    In the first question, PSC suggests that the Committee require DOD 
to report not only on the baseline assessment of the defense industry 
but more importantly on what the goals of such assessments should be. 
Too often, mergers are assessed against the impact on DOD contracts. I 
respectfully suggest that they should also be assessed against U.S. 
long-term national interests. Competition in domestic markets needs to 
be balanced against competition globally.
    Perhaps equally important is the enforcement of compliance with 
covenants to which companies agree as the basis for approval of a 
merger or acquisition. Anecdotal evidence indicates instances where 
companies do not comply with such covenants. The Committee might 
request a report from DOD to determine the degree to which this is a 
problem.

                         intellectual property

    3. Senator Reed. Ms. Lord, what are your thoughts on how to balance 
intellectual property (IP) rights desired by the government in support 
of the acquisition and sustainment of weapons programs with the desire 
of companies to protect IP that may be commercially sensitive?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

                        industrial base planning

    4. Senator Reed. Ms. Lord and Mr. Berteau, how could the Department 
better plan for, react to, and make strategic trade-offs in cases where 
emerging needs for a technology involve long lead times that are 
compounded by obsolescent manufacturing lines or processes (including 
collecting, coordinating and analyzing existing data and applying 
analytic tools to support decision making)?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. DOD currently has too little information on its 
dependency on obsolete requirements, products, and processes. However, 
we have seen from the war in Ukraine that systems that do not meet 
DOD's needs may still be useful to other nations.
                               __________

             Questions Submitted by Senator Jeanne Shaheen

                                ukraine

    5. Senator Shaheen. Ms. Lord and Mr. Berteau, I was pleased that 
last week President Biden appointed retired Lieutenant General Terry 
Wolff to manage the swift delivery of urgently needed security 
assistance to Ukraine, something that I and my colleagues Senator 
Portman, Senator Wicker and Senator Durbin recently called for. What 
steps should he and the Department of Defense be taking to identify 
technologies available across the commercial defense industrial base 
that are available and can make an immediate impact in bolstering the 
Ukrainians' defenses?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. There appears to be general agreement that the 
security situation in Ukraine and its ongoing fight against Russian 
military forces will remain fluid for the foreseeable future. Thus, the 
types and quantities of capabilities required by Ukrainian forces--
particularly through the various United States security assistance 
programs--cannot be static. To date, I believe there has only been one 
official DOD request for information (RFI) regarding possible industry 
support to Ukrainian forces, a Defense Logistics Agency RFI released on 
April 22 with a due date of May 6, 2022. In the weeks since that 
deadline, the Department has shared little feedback with industry on 
submissions received. Given the constantly changing nature of the 
conflict and the evolving demands for support from the U.S. and our 
allies and partners, it seems clear that DOD would benefit from 
providing industry with on open-ended opportunity to propose and 
provide information on solutions that could serve Ukrainian--and United 
States--interests.
    There are practical steps that DOD officials can take to identify 
needed capabilities that would bolster Ukraine's defenses. First, DOD 
could create a portal for proposed solutions, building on the example 
set by the OSD COVID portal originally created by the Office of 
Industrial Policy in the weeks immediately after the COVID-19 emergency 
declaration in March 2020. Such a portal should be appropriately 
resourced and sufficiently transparent so that industry could receive 
feedback on their proposals in a reasonable timeframe. In addition, DOD 
officials could meet regularly with their industry colleagues--perhaps 
using trade associations to expand the reach--to share information 
about urgent capability requirements and about the Department's 
decision-making and approval process(es).

 small business innovation research/small business technology transfer 
                                programs

    6. Senator Shaheen. Ms. Lord and Mr. Berteau, the Small Business 
Innovation Research and Small Business Technology Transfer, or SBIR and 
STTR, programs will lapse at the end of this fiscal year if Congress 
does not extend the authorizations. How detrimental to the defense 
industrial base would it be for the SBIR and STTR expire?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. SBIR and STTR are important programs for both small 
businesses and the Department. PSC recommends that the Congress 
reauthorize and refine, as appropriate, these two critical programs.
    Such refinement, for example, would recognize that participating 
companies often face a ``valley of death'' after their initial 
investments in research and development, as they try to move to SBIR 
Phase III wherein they would access funding outside of the SBIR 
program. The committee should consider legislative language that would 
require development of simplified, standardized procedures for 
``graduating'' work to Phase III test and evaluation, production, etc.

    7. Senator Shaheen. Ms. Lord and Mr. Berteau, do you believe it is 
in the best interests of the defense industrial base to simply 
permanently reauthorize the program?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. Yes, after demonstrating its value for nearly four 
decades, the program should be made permanent. PSC looks forward to 
supporting the committee's efforts to do so.

    8. Senator Shaheen. Mr. Berteau--in your statement, you cited 
statistics showing that the number of companies that participate as 
prime contractors or subcontractors dropped from 60,000 to 41,000--the 
vast majority being small businesses. Additionally, you mentioned that 
current DOD policies punish small businesses for growth because they no 
longer become eligible for ``set aside'' awards only given to small 
businesses. What policies and regulations are needed to reward small 
businesses for growth?
    Mr. Berteau. The practical results of the government's efforts to 
boost the participation of small businesses in the federal market have 
been mixed. Regardless of the funding amounts going to small business 
prime contractors, we continue to see a decline in the number of small 
businesses working with and for the government. This situation extends 
beyond DOD to include the entire Federal Government.
    For many small commercial entities--who often have limited access 
to capital and other critical resources--the barriers to entry for the 
federal marketplace can be prohibitively high. For example, 
requirements for specific accounting systems, potentially burdensome 
reporting and disclosure requirements, and demands to demonstrate 
``relevant'' past performance can deter such small businesses from 
bidding. They may not have the scope and scale to operate in the manner 
the government demands, particularly with constantly evolving 
requirements.
    PSC has long recommended that the Congress conduct a review of how 
the government measures small business participation, specifically the 
reliance on information related to prime contract dollars versus small 
business utilization at prime and subtier contracts. Alternative 
methods to measure progress could include the number of businesses 
participating in the federal marketplace, job opportunities that result 
from small business and set-aside programs, and/or additional 
subcontracting requirements. Measures such as these may provide a 
clearer picture of the impacts of the government's small business 
policies and programs.
    Currently federal agencies and their staff are not incentivized to 
focus on creating more small business jobs through to small business 
subcontractors. They only get credit in government scorecards--or in 
annual performance reviews for senior executives--for dollars awarded 
to small business prime contractors. Jobs and innovation can come from 
subcontractors as well as primes. It may be worth considering how to 
reward relevant government personnel for all small business jobs and 
funds, not just some.
    For additional information and suggestions specific to DOD, please 
see PSC's response to the ``Notice of Request for Comments on Barriers 
Facing Small Businesses in Contracting with the Department of 
Defense.''

                       submarine industrial base
                       
    9. Senator Shaheen. Ms. Lord, I was pleased to see the President's 
Budget Request include $750 million for the submarine industrial base, 
which supports a number of New Hampshire companies that are critical 
suppliers for our submarines and develops the next generation workforce 
to maintain submarines at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. How important 
are sustained investments in our submarine industrial base for 
correcting the years of neglect after the end of the Cold War and 
ensuring we retain our critical technological superiority over 
adversaries like China and Russia?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

                                 aukus

    10. Senator Shaheen. Ms. Lord, through AUKUS, Australia, the UK and 
the United States are expected to more profoundly collaborate on the 
advanced systems, like hypersonics, needed to keep pace with China. 
What benefits does this agreement bring to the United States and its 
industrial base?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    11. Senator Shaheen. Ms. Lord, as we develop these new, advanced 
technologies, how can we best expand and mature our defense industrial 
base to meet the often complex requirements of these new systems?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
                               __________

          Questions Submitted by Senator Kirsten E. Gillibrand

                     accelerating acquisition speed

    12. Senator Gillibrand. Ms. Lord and Mr. Berteau, what aspects of 
the Federal Government's contracting process do you recommend adapting 
to better facilitate acquisition of emerging technologies?
    Mr. Berteau. In addition to the burdensome and sometimes arcane 
nature of the Federal Government's procurement processes, it simply 
takes too long to identify, generate, and validate a requirement, to 
translate that requirement into a solicitation, to evaluate offers, and 
then to award the contract. Each of these steps can take anywhere from 
several months to several years, and the cumulative effect can delay 
acquisition and fielding of needed capabilities.
    We need to be able to identify and field technologies faster. Once 
the government identifies a need, it should be able to obtain those 
goods and services as quickly as possible. This is especially critical 
given the pace of technology change in contractor-proposed solutions, 
which can change dramatically between the time at which a requirement 
is identified and years later at the time of delivery of that 
capability to the government customer.
    Recognizing the adverse impact of extensive procurement 
administrative lead times (PALT) on procurement outcomes, Congress 
acted to reduce PALT by requiring the government to ``develop, make 
available for public comment, and finalize'' a definition of PALT and a 
plan for measuring and publicly reporting this data for contracts. In 
January 2021, OMB's Office of Federal Procurement Policy provided a 
PALT definition and guidance to federal agencies so they can ``reduce 
PALT in their acquisition activities through modern business practices 
that shorten the time from the identification of need to delivery of 
value.''
    At PSC, we believe that PALT has increased rather than been 
reduced. A review by the Committee and/or the Government Accountability 
Office of how DOD is implementing this requirement--particularly as it 
related to purchasing and applying emerging technologies--would be 
timely and prudent.

    13. Senator Gillibrand. Ms. Lord and Mr. Berteau, do you think 
certain defense programs should be excluded from federal acquisitions 
regulations altogether?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. PSC understands the value that non-FAR-based 
contracting procedures can bring to the Department and to participating 
companies. Other Transaction Authority agreements, certain set-asides 
and use of Federally Funded Research and Development Centers (FFRDCs), 
and the creation of new marketplaces are a result of the frustrations 
with the burdensome and cumbersome requirements imposed on the 
government and contractors during the acquisition process. However, PSC 
believes that the government should eliminate unnecessary and 
duplicative FAR-based requirements for all companies, rather than 
create avenues to circumvent the existing process for a subset of them. 
If certain requirements are unnecessary for some, they should be 
unnecessary for all.

    14. Senator Gillibrand. Ms. Lord and Mr. Berteau, DOD has used 
other transaction authority (OTAs) contracts to develop prototypes with 
industry for emerging technologies to speed the acquisition process. 
How has this contracting method been received by the DIB? Should we 
expand the use of this authority?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. PSC believes that OTA agreements, when appropriately 
managed and with appropriate oversight mechanisms, have a role in the 
acquisition toolbox. That said, I would reiterate that if requirements 
are deemed unnecessary for certain acquisitions, they should be 
reviewed for their necessity for all acquisitions.

                         foreign military sales

    15. Senator Gillibrand. Ms. Lord, I just returned from a trip to 
India and Nepal. These countries would love to acquire United States 
produced helicopters and other weaponry. But the challenge is that such 
sales take too long--it is so cumbersome that countries turn to China 
or Russia. What issues have our allies and partners raised about the 
timeliness of the American FMS process and what can we do to increase 
the speed of developing long term partnerships with such countries 
through FMS?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
                               __________

             Questions Submitted by Senator Mazie K. Hirono

                  education and training partnerships

    16. Senator Hirono. Mr. Berteau, the COVID-19 pandemic has stressed 
the supply chain and highlighted the importance of a U.S.-based 
workforce. The 2021 report from the Defense Critical Supply Chain Task 
Force recommended the Department form partnerships between the DOD and 
industry, academia, and other entities to incentivize and increase the 
education and training of the U.S. workforce. What are the primary 
hinderances to a more robust domestic workforce?
    Mr. Berteau. PSC believes that the primary hindrances to a more 
robust United States-based workforce in the defense industry include 
excessive emphasis on lowest-price contracts without regard to 
maintaining the long-term workforce needed, the challenges in security 
clearances for contractors and in providing reciprocal recognition of 
clearances between agencies, and a focus on input in contracts instead 
of outcomes.

    17. Senator Hirono. Mr. Berteau, what partnerships have been formed 
since the release of the Task Force report to bolster the U.S. 
workforce?
    Mr. Berteau. PSC is unaware of any widespread new partnerships 
formed since the Task Force report recommended them.

                              shipbuilding

    18. Senator Hirono. Ms. Lord, there are significant maintenance 
delays for a number of the Navy's ships which have triggered delays for 
the maintenance, repair, and building of other vessels. Given the delay 
in our Nation's maintenance of ships and China's rapid naval expansion, 
are additional or expanded authorities or funds necessary to facilitate 
domestic shipbuilding and maintenance?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    19. Senator Hirono. Ms. Lord, are the delays primarily caused by a 
lack of parts or a lack of manpower?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    20. Senator Hirono. Ms. Lord, has the Defense Production Act been 
invoked to supply parts for ship maintenance?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    21. Senator Hirono. Ms. Lord, what partnerships has DOD forged 
between industry or academia to train a new generation of shipyard 
workers?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
                              supply chain
    22. Senator Hirono. Ms. Lord, supply chains have both been stressed 
by the pandemic and attacked outright by adversaries. How does DOD 
work, alone or with partner agencies, to deter and defend against 
cyber-attacks on the supply chain?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    23. Senator Hirono. Ms. Lord, what stage of the supply chain is 
most vulnerable, and how is the U.S. working to defend these 
vulnerabilities?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    24. Senator Hirono. Ms. Lord, how do domestic industries alert DOD 
to possible cyber-attacks?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

           cybersecurity maturity model certification (cmmc)

    25. Senator Hirono. Ms. Lord, Mr. Berteau, DOD created the 
Cybersecurity Maturity Model Certification (CMMC) to ensure Defense 
Industrial Base contractors are following best cybersecurity practices 
when handling sensitive data. It is important that companies come into 
compliance with CMMC but it is also challenging for small businesses to 
meet the requirements for certification. DOD should focus on ways to 
help small businesses meet CMMC requirements as they make up more than 
three-quarters of the Defense Industrial Base. What can DOD do to 
encourage prime contractors to help their sub-contractors, particularly 
small businesses, come into compliance with CMMC?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. The range of cybersecurity threats to the United 
States, the Department of Defense, and the industrial base is real and 
growing. Past approaches are not sufficient to meet these evolving 
threats.
    Cybersecurity rests on a partnership between government and 
industry, working together to address growing cybersecurity threats 
with a robust response to protect our infrastructure, information 
(including operational information as well as technical data for weapon 
systems), and supply chains, including software, telecommunications, 
and data systems.
    Accordingly, PSC supports the idea of DOD pursuing a unified 
cybersecurity standard based on `best practices' to secure the 
industrial base and for examining programs that may assist small 
businesses with cyber hygiene and the costs for addressing 
vulnerabilities, including Project Spectrum and the Trusted Capital 
Program.
    Other options include having DOD provide the infrastructure--the 
servers, the security structure, etc.--so that a small business can 
operate without having to own it themselves. Of course, part of the 
problem is you give up some of your privacy and rights if you are 
participating in a government-operated program. Another option is for 
large contractors to provide that structure for their small business 
subcontractors. This would require new authorities and funding to 
implement.
    Additionally, small businesses--like companies of all sizes--would 
benefit from increased transparency on the requirements, timelines and 
compliance costs that the Department will impose.
    However, while these and similar programs may contribute to a more 
secure ecosystem and to the ability of small businesses to achieve and 
afford compliance with CMMC, they are not enough. Standards evolve more 
slowly than the threat. A compliance-focused approach looks back, 
rather than forward. Rules that apply to DOD only, or even only to all 
government contractors, are too narrow in their reach. A nationwide 
approach is needed.

    impact of decommissioning on maintenance and repair work--both 
                               witnesses

    26. Senator Hirono. Ms. Lord, decisions and rumors about which 
ships are slated to be decommissioned can have unintended consequences 
on companies that are contracted to perform ship repair and maintenance 
work. What can DOD do to mitigate the impact of decommissioning on ship 
repair and maintenance contractors?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    27. Senator Hirono. Ms. Lord, Mr. Berteau, What can DOD do to 
encourage companies to remain in the Defense Industrial Base even when 
they lose out on contracts or a decision is made to divest of their 
product?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. In addition to improving the overall acquisition 
environment, two improvements DOD could make to keep companies in the 
industrial base are better business forecasts and improved contract 
award debriefings.

Business forecasts
    Congress can and should provide companies with additional 
information on their specific contracting opportunities and on the 
overall market landscape. Greater transparency in government 
procurement opportunities and approaches help companies have the 
stability and predictability to remain in the marketplace if/when they 
choose.
    Federal contractors rely on procurement forecasts to conduct 
business planning activities and better meet the needs of government. 
The Committee should propose requirements for agencies to provide 
improved, timely information to the public on acquisition forecasts, 
choices of instruments, source selection criteria, contract types, and 
cancelled solicitations.
    A procurement forecast is often the first step for those companies 
who want to contract with DOD. Yet many forecasts contain incomplete, 
inconsistent, or out-of-date information and the availability of this 
information is wildly varies across the Department and federal 
agencies. PSC released its 4th annual Business Forecast Scorecard, 
reporting on 62 federal agency on-line forecasts of coming contracts. 
You can find the results here, followed by this press release. Some DOD 
entities received favorable scores, but others did not, and some are 
missing entirely. PSC would support Congressional efforts to require 
DOD to report on progress improving its forecasts to increase the value 
to contractors who use them to remain or enter the market.

Enhanced Debriefings
    Similarly, the Congress took a step toward assisting small 
businesses by enacting Section 818 of the Fiscal Year 2018 NDAA. This 
provision required DOD to provide comprehensive debriefings to 
offerors, to help them understand what went right and wrong with their 
bid and how to improve in the future.
    This provision was implemented initially by a class deviation and 
then a final DFARS rule. PSC's anecdotal evidence suggested that these 
debriefings can be valuable when adequately provided but are neither 
well known nor widely utilized. PSC requests Committee efforts to 
review the use and value of the debriefings provided by DOD since Sec. 
818 was implemented.
                               __________

               Questions Submitted by Senator Jacky Rosen

               maintaining our defense technological edge

    28. Senator Rosen. Ms. Lord, global competition, declining R&D, 
contracting challenges, and the STEM workforce gap are a few 
impediments eroding our technological edge with adversaries. I'd like 
to get your thoughts on an issue I've raised before in this committee--
the ``valley of death,'' which is the point in the DOD innovation cycle 
when cutting-edge technologies die before they can win a contract to 
produce software or equipment at scale. One of the gaps in the defense 
technology development process is the lack of private capital interest 
in defense-centric startup companies. What are specific steps the 
Department of Defense can take to improve the transition of successful 
technology prototypes to the point of production, and then rapidly 
field these technologies at scale so that we can leverage technology to 
better compete with our adversaries? How can the Department of Defense 
better incentivize private capital investments in small to medium size 
defense companies and does it need any new authorities to do so?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
                               __________

               Questions Submitted by Senator Mark Kelly

                             stem education

    29. Senator Kelly. Ms. Lord and Mr. Berteau, in 2018 the previous 
administration released an analysis of the resiliency of the U.S. 
manufacturing and defense industrial base. The analysis identified a 
few challenges driving risk within our defense industrial base, one of 
them being a decline of STEM-related skills within the labor force, 
particularly among younger Americans. Over time this decline can result 
in a lack of innovation, placing our technological and competitive edge 
at risk. This is an issue that I've focused on as Chair of this 
committee's Emerging Threats and Capabilities panel--because we need 
these skills to continue to outcompete countries like China. In your 
view, what concrete steps can this Congress take to curtail that 
decline and promote an increase in STEM-related skills?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. For STEM-related workers, as for the entire federal 
and contractor blended workforce, PSC believes that creating and 
supporting a more robust United States-based workforce in the defense 
industry is the best way to promote such an increase. Barriers to this 
include excessive emphasis on lowest-price contracts without regard to 
maintaining the long-term workforce needed, the challenges in security 
clearances for contractors and in providing reciprocal recognition of 
clearances between agencies, and a focus on input in contracts instead 
of outcomes.

            impact of executive orders on existing contracts

    30. Senator Kelly. Ms. Lord, I am curious about your views 
regarding the impact of inflation on the defense industrial base. My 
office has heard concerns from industry that DOD has been slow to 
adjust agreements to reflect the realities of inflation, and that the 
Department has not been forthcoming in adjusting contracts generally to 
reflect certain realities, such as when changes are made to contracts 
at the government's insistence to comply with a new Executive Order. 
These changes have real impacts on the costs for contractors that we 
count on to deliver national security critical systems. In your view, 
does failure to account for costs impact the industrial base?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
                               __________

             Questions Submitted by Senator James M. Inhofe

                         munitions--ammunition

    31. Senator Inhofe. Ms Lord, we discussed a lot about guided 
munitions, such as stingers. However, I also have concerns about 
ammunition supply chain vulnerabilities. My understanding is a little-
known mineral compound, called antimony trisulfide, plays a unique role 
in its application for primers. Antimony primarily comes from and is 
processed in China, but also from Russia. I worry that without a 
domestic source and processing capabilities of this little-known 
compound, that is inherent and strategically important to the lethality 
of our armed forces, we will, in the not so distant future, run into 
ammunition supply shortages. Did you know this about antimony and do 
you think we need to secure domestic sourcing and processing 
capabilities for not just antimony, but a variety of other minerals 
that are almost entirely sourced from China and are at the same time 
strategic components in our national security platforms?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
                               __________

             Questions Submitted by Senator Roger F. Wicker

                        estimated inflation rate

    32. Senator Wicker. Ms. Lord and Mr. Berteau, in preparing the 
budget for fiscal year 2022, the Department of Defense used 2.2 percent 
for its predicted inflation rate. Furthermore, in preparing the budget 
for fiscal year 2023, the Department of Defense used 2.6 percent for 
its predicted inflation rate. Are the DOD's estimates of inflation 
realistic for 2022 and 2023?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. The estimate for fiscal year 2022 may have seemed 
adequate at the time the president's budget was submitted, but it was 
clearly unrealistic by the time fiscal year 2022 appropriations were 
enacted in March of this year. While inflation for fiscal year 2023 is 
harder to predict, it is unlikely that the assumptions in the fiscal 
year 2023 President's Budget will reflect reality.
    Inflation, including controlling future costs and recovering actual 
costs incurred, is a top and immediate concern for the contractor 
community and an issue that cannot wait for the fiscal year 2023 
appropriations bills to be enacted. Contractors across the board are 
seeing dramatic increases in their costs--for materiel at every step of 
their supply chains, for transportation, and for the skilled labor 
necessary to provide much-needed capabilities in support of federal 
missions.
    While component and raw material supply chain concerns have been 
regularly assessed and discussed, the impact of inflation on our 
contractor workforce has been not received the attention it deserves. 
With wage growth of roughly 8 percent year over year, a contractor that 
operates on a 5 percent margin may not be able to absorb wage growth 
that outpaces that margin and still stay in business. This is needs to 
be urgently addressed.
    Industry will suffer if DOD tries to address the impact of 
inflation one contract at a time. Thanks to years of low inflation, few 
current contracts include the contract clauses that would allow 
companies to request price adjustments to recover inflation-related 
costs. With hundreds of thousands of contracts every year across a 
variety of agencies and sub-agencies, it is not possible to amend every 
relevant contract.
    Rather, contracting officers need guidance that would cover all 
contracts--``blanket'' guidance, so to speak. The Office of Management 
and Budget (OMB)--or the heads of agencies if OMB does not act--should 
issue such guidance to their program and contracting officers that 
would let companies recover inflation-related costs, subject to the 
availability of funds.
    In the case of one agency, the General Services Administration 
removed the cap on the number of requests for equitable price 
adjustments (EPAs), easing just one of several constraints. GSA's 
temporary moratorium on the limits to these requests is a positive step 
but it (a) does not make more money available; (b) does not direct 
contracting officers to proactively allow for EPA requests, when funds 
are available; and (c) does not provide an expedited timeline for 
consideration of such requests. Currently, there is a tight time limit 
at the front end for filing requests, but there is no real time limit 
for how quickly the government processes payments to contractors.
    Consistent with Part 1.6 of the Federal Acquisition Regulation (the 
FAR), government-wide guidance would provide contracting officers with 
both an affirmative responsibility on the individual contract, but also 
a responsibility to maintain the long-term viability of the business 
base that's supporting the government across the board.
    This could and should be done quickly, and without legislation. As 
an example, the government can look to the beginning of the pandemic, 
when OMB guidance instructed contracting officers across the Federal 
Government to maximize teleworking for contractors, even if there was 
no clause in the contract that permitted such teleworking. The 
government did not need to modify each contract. All that guidance did 
was provide direction to the contracting officers to make that 
decision. The same thing could--and should--be done very quickly with 
recovering costs from inflation.
                               __________

              Questions Submitted by Senator Dan Sullivan

                   shrinking defense industrial base

    33. Senator Sullivan. Ms. Lord and Mr. Berteau, the recently 
released DOD report, ``State of Competition within the Defense 
Industrial Base'' says that ``[o]ver approximately the last three 
decades, the number of suppliers in major weapons system categories has 
declined substantially: tactical missile suppliers have declined from 
13 to 3, fixed-wing aircraft suppliers declined from 8 to 3, and 
satellite suppliers have halved from 8 to 4. Today, 90 percent of 
missiles come from 3 sources.'' In your estimation, what is the most 
effective way to lower barriers to entry for small businesses to 
adequately compete for defense contracts?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. One measure of the defense industrial base is the 
number of companies that participate as prime contractors or 
subcontractors. A recent report from the Center for Strategic and 
International Studies cited the drop in overall numbers of companies 
with one or more prime contracts from DOD, from more than 60,000 in 
2009 to roughly 41,000 in 2020. Experience tells us, though, that those 
numbers alone are not the full story.
    More than 25,000 of those 41,000 companies in 2020 are small 
businesses, and their contracts are frequently awarded through various 
programs that ``set aside'' awards only for eligible small businesses. 
This does help keep small businesses going, until they outgrow their 
eligibility for those ``set-aside'' contracts. PSC analysis shows that 
once such companies ``graduate'' from small-business status, their 
success in winning DOD contracts drops precipitously. In other words, 
DOD and federal small business policies and practices punish growth 
rather than rewarding it. This is not the way to attract more companies 
to do business with DOD.
    For many small commercial entities--who often have limited access 
to capital and other critical resources--the barriers to entry for the 
federal marketplace can be prohibitively high. For example, 
requirements for specific accounting systems, potentially burdensome 
reporting and disclosures, and relevant past performance can deter such 
small businesses, who do not have the scope and scale to operate in the 
manner the government demands and cannot afford to stay in business to 
comply with existing and constantly evolving requirements.
    PSC has long recommended that the Congress conduct a review of the 
government measures small business participation, specifically the 
reliance on information related to prime contract dollars versus small 
business utilization at prime and subtier contracts. Alternative 
methods such as the number of businesses participating in the federal 
marketplace, job opportunities that result from small business and set-
aside programs, and/or additional subcontracting requirements may 
provide a clearer picture and better achieve the goals of the 
government's small business policies.
    Currently federal agencies neither measure, track, nor reward small 
business funding and jobs generated by small business subcontractors. 
They only get credit in government scorecards--or in annual performance 
reviews for senior executives--for dollars awarded to small business 
prime contractors. PSC believes that innovation can come from 
subcontractors as well as primes and that the government should 
recognize all small business jobs and funds, not just some.
    The SBA could base their small business score on the total dollar 
value of the award, considering both prime and subtier contracts to 
small business concerns with equal weight in their annual scorecard. 
This would better reflect the participation of small businesses in the 
federal market.
    For additional information and suggestions specific to DOD, please 
see PSC's response to the ``Notice of Request for Comments on Barriers 
Facing Small Businesses in Contracting with the Department of 
Defense.''

    34. Senator Sullivan. Ms. Lord and Mr. Berteau, if we fail to 
correct this trend of shrinking competition in the defense-industrial 
base, how would this impact our ability to prepare for and prevail in a 
great power conflict?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
    Mr. Berteau. For centuries, one of America's great national 
security strengths has been the dynamic partnership of government and 
the private sector. This partnership is vital. In DOD, contractors 
provide a wide range of goods and services to the warfighter, as well 
as the components and agencies of the Department. These contractor 
contributions are essential maintain national security, and the 
government benefits from a strong, diversified national interest 
business base to support its current and emerging requirements.
    This is especially true and relevant as we look at potential great 
power conflicts and the technology that would be utilized by our 
adversaries in a conflict. Diversity and variety in the government 
contractor community brings diversity and variety in the solutions that 
could be procured and deployed.

                       critical minerals sourcing

    35. Senator Sullivan. Ms. Lord, in 2019, the Lynas Rare Earths 
company was awarded a $30.4 million contract under a Defense Production 
Act Title III technology agreement to establish domestic processing 
capabilities of critical minerals. This award aligns with the previous 
executive orders to ensure supplies of rare earth elements and 
strengthen defense supply chains. Fortunately, other companies are 
answering the call as well; undertaking similar processing and refining 
projects across the country, including at locations like the Bokan mine 
project in Alaska. Do you believe the DOD should continue to provide 
DPA Title III awards to companies answering this requirement?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    36. Senator Sullivan. Ms. Lord, how does over-regulation regarding 
environmental considerations inhibit domestic critical mineral 
production and processing capabilities?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    37. Senator Sullivan. Ms. Lord, globalized competition in the 
critical minerals space has presented substantial challenges to 
domestic and allied manufacturers, whom often must exit the industry 
amid a lack of comparative advantage. As a result, the United States 
has come to rely heavily on foreign sources for critical weapon system 
components. Do you believe we are doing enough to create domestic 
supplies of critical minerals to address our over-reliance on foreign 
resources?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    38. Senator Sullivan. Ms. Lord, how should we balance cost-
effective procurement with national security concerns about foreign 
sourced materials?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

                   requests for equitable adjustments

    39. Senator Sullivan. Mr. Berteau, unprecedented levels of 
inflation, combined with a delayed appropriations bill this previous 
year, has significantly impacted the defense industrial base. Deputy 
Secretary Hicks was recently quoted saying that despite this, the DOD 
has ``not seen a huge influx'' of equitable adjustments to contracts. 
In your written statement submitted to this committee for this hearing, 
you state, ``[i]f I were still in DOD, rather than saying that we don't 
yet see a problem because few requests have been received, I would try 
to get in front of this problem by estimating the additional funding 
needed to cover this cost growth and looking at ways to meet those 
costs.'' What must be done to better enable the defense industrial base 
to deal with consistently delayed appropriations and current 
inflationary pressures?
    Mr. Berteau.
Delayed Appropriations
    Delays in appropriations harm the entire Federal Government but hit 
DOD particularly hard. Agency budget officers hold back needed funds 
until at least one month after final appropriations are enacted, which 
for this fiscal year meant mid-April, more than half way through the 
fiscal year. The congressionally-chartered commission on DOD's 
Planning, Programming, Budgeting, and Execution (PPBE) system will 
hopefully address this question, but PSC believes that the best way to 
deal with ``consistently delayed appropriations'' is to stop doing 
them.
    On-time appropriations enable DOD to contract faster and better and 
to get the results sooner. In a competition with China, achieving such 
timely results are critical. Continuing resolutions would be a top item 
in the wish list of those nations who would undermine America and 
freedom around the world. PSC urges Congress each year to enact 
appropriations in advance of the start of the fiscal year. For DOD, 
this has happened exactly once in the past 13 years.

Inflation
    Inflation, including controlling future costs and recovering actual 
costs incurred, is a top and immediate concern for the contractor 
community and an issue that cannot wait for the fiscal year 2023 
appropriations bills to be enacted. Contractors across the board are 
seeing dramatic increases in their costs--for materiel at every step of 
their supply chains, for transportation, and for the skilled labor 
necessary to provide much-needed capabilities in support of federal 
missions.
    While component and raw material supply chain concerns have been 
regularly assessed and discussed, the impact of inflation on our 
contractor workforce has been not received the attention it deserves. 
With wage growth of roughly 8 percent year over year, a contractor that 
operates on a 5 percent margin may not be able to absorb wage growth 
that outpaces that margin and still stay in business. This is needs to 
be urgently addressed.
    Industry will suffer if DOD tries to address the impact of 
inflation one contract at a time. Thanks to years of low inflation, few 
current contracts include the contract clauses that would allow 
companies to request price adjustments to recover inflation-related 
costs. With hundreds of thousands of contracts every year across a 
variety of agencies and sub-agencies, it is not possible to amend every 
relevant contract.
    Rather, contracting officers need guidance that would cover all 
contracts--``blanket'' guidance, so to speak. The Office of Management 
and Budget (OMB)--or the heads of agencies if OMB does not act--should 
issue such guidance to their program and contracting officers that 
would let companies recover inflation-related costs, subject to the 
availability of funds.
    Consistent with Part 1.6 of the Federal Acquisition Regulation (the 
FAR), government-wide guidance would provide contracting officers with 
both an affirmative responsibility on the individual contract, but also 
a responsibility to maintain the long-term viability of the business 
base that's supporting the government across the board.

                         navy shipbuilding plan

    40. Senator Sullivan. Ms. Lord, released last week, the Navy's 30-
year shipbuilding plan states, ``[t]he buildup in the 1950s and 1980s, 
followed by ``bust'' periods of little production, each led to the loss 
of portions of our shipbuilding industrial capacity,'' and that, ``[w]e 
are at a level of fragility in the supplier base, amplified by COVID 
impacts, such that without consistent and continuous commitment to 
steady and executable acquisition profiles the industrial base will 
continue to struggle and some elements may not recover from another 
`boom/bust' cycle.'' Given the evolving requirements that emerge from a 
dynamic geopolitical landscape, how do we attain more consistency in 
these production cycles?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    41. Senator Sullivan. Ms. Lord, new classes of ship such as the 
Light Amphibious Warship (LAW) and various unmanned vessels could be 
built in smaller shipyards, increasing competition and driving costs 
down for these contracts while allowing larger shipyards to focus on 
large surface combatants, amphibious ships, and nuclear submarines. 
What are your thoughts on the role smaller shipyards can play in 
delivering new vessels to accelerate the Navy's ship growth?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

                              hypersonics

    42. Senator Sullivan. Ms. Lord, one sector that has been stifled by 
reduced competition is the testing and production of hypersonics. The 
recently released DOD report on the ``State of Competition within the 
Defense Industrial Base,'' says that ``[w]ithin this sector, many 
primes, first-tier subcontractors, and first-tier material suppliers 
are positioning themselves to acquire lower-tiered hypersonic 
contractors and material suppliers. This vertical integration will 
likely lead to reduced competition and may eliminate it altogether.'' 
How should we combat the trend of vertical integration in the 
hypersonics market and defense industrial base as a whole?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
                               __________

            Questions Submitted by Senator Marsha Blackburn

                            small businesses

    43. Senator Blackburn. Ms. Lord, with a substantial decline in 
small business competition, what are the immediate and long-term 
implications of only having approximately five prime contractors?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    44. Senator Blackburn. Ms. Lord, what are the benefits and 
disadvantages between consolidation and competition within the DIB?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

                             cybersecurity

    45. Senator Blackburn. Ms. Lord, what steps are companies that 
provide critical components to the Department of Defense (DOD) taking 
to mitigate adversary malicious cyberactivity?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    46. Senator Blackburn. Ms. Lord, how is the DOD supporting these 
companies, and is this a system-wide or ad hoc issue?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    47. Senator Blackburn. Ms. Lord, what shortfalls do you identify in 
the current industrial base and acquisition policies and practices 
concerning DIB cybersecurity?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

             national technology and industrial base (ntib)

    48. Senator Blackburn. Ms. Lord, how have Beijing's malign actions 
influenced the role of NTIB integration with allies and the commercial 
marketplace?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

                       munitions industrial base

    49. Senator Blackburn. Ms. Lord, how can we address the gap between 
production time of munitions and energetics production lead time?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    50. Senator Blackburn. Ms. Lord, how is the crumbling 
infrastructure of our government energetics production facilities a 
single point of failure in a protracted conflict?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.
                               __________

               Questions Submitted by Senator Josh Hawley

                     chinese printed circuit boards

    51. Senator Hawley. Ms. Lord, I led efforts last year to pass 
legislation phasing out the Department of Defense's use of Chinese 
printed circuit boards inside of our Nation's critical defense systems. 
We ultimately succeeded, but it was a multi-year fight, in large part 
because major corporations and their allies seemed determined to put 
profit ahead of protecting our national security. What should Congress 
or the Department itself do going forward in order to overcome this 
kind of resistance from industry, so we can end our reliance on Chinese 
inputs for some of our most sensitive military systems?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

                     defense industry consolidation

    52. Senator Hawley. Ms. Lord, over the past few decades the defense 
industrial base has increasingly become consolidated, where now only a 
handful of companies are conducting the critical defense and aerospace 
work for the Department. In your opinion, how has the consolidation of 
the defense industrial base impacted DOD's ability to acquire the 
capabilities it needs, when it needs them, at reasonable cost?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

    53. Senator Hawley. Ms. Lord, how should we address the fact that 
DOD is now effectively reliant on just a handful of prime defense 
contractors for many--most, even--of the most important programs 
currently underway?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

                          effects of inflation

    54. Senator Hawley. Ms. Lord, we are currently experiencing some of 
the worst inflation our country has ever seen. How have these soaring 
prices, high inflation, and supply chain disruptions impacted our 
defense industrial base and its ability to do the critical national 
security work needed to keep pace with competitors such as China and 
Russia?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

           sole-sourcing limits on production surge capacity

    55. Senator Hawley. Ms. Lord, according to recent reporting, the 
Air Force relies on a sole-source vender to repair its military 
aircraft. If surge capacity is needed, how would this type of reliance 
on a sole-source impact our ability to surge effectively in the event 
of a potential conflict in the Indo-Pacific?
    Ms. Lord did not respond in time for printing. When received, 
answer will be retained in committee files.

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