[Senate Hearing 117-885]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                       S. Hrg. 117-885

                       REMOVING BARRIERS TO LEGAL
                      MIGRATION TO STRENGTHEN OUR
                        COMMUNITIES AND ECONOMY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY

                                 OF THE

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             MARCH 15, 2022

                               __________

                          Serial No. J-117-55

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
         
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                             
                           
                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                   RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair
                   
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont            CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa, Ranking 
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California             Member
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             JOHN CORNYN, Texas
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      TED CRUZ, Texas
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              BEN SASSE, Nebraska
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
ALEX PADILLA, California             TOM COTTON, Arkansas
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
                                     THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                     MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
                                     
             Joseph Zogby, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
      Kolan L. Davis, Republican Chief Counsel and Staff Director

        

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP
                           AND BORDER SAFETY

                    ALEX PADILLA, California, Chair
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California         JOHN CORNYN, Texas, Ranking Member
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       TED CRUZ, Texas
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      TOM COTTON, Arkansas
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                     MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee

                Alyson Sincavage, Majority Chief Counsel
                 Ryan Raybould, Minority Chief Counsel
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page

Padilla, Hon. Alex...............................................     1
Cornyn, Hon. John................................................     3
Durbin, Hon. Richard J., U.S. Senator from Illinois..............     6

                               WITNESSES

Legomsky, Stephen H..............................................     9
    Prepared statement...........................................    36
Melmed, Lynden D.................................................    13
    Prepared statement...........................................    49
Rajakumar, Athulya...............................................    11
    Prepared statement...........................................    55
    Responses to written questions...............................    62

                                APPENDIX

Items submitted for the record...................................    35

 
                       REMOVING BARRIERS TO LEGAL
                      MIGRATION TO STRENGTHEN OUR
                        COMMUNITIES AND ECONOMY

                              ----------                              


                        TUESDAY, MARCH 15, 2022

                              United States Senate,
                  Subcommittee on Immigration, Citizenship,
                                       and Border Security,
                                Committee on the Judiciary,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice at 2:02 p.m., in 
Room 226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Alex Padilla, 
Chair of the Subcommittee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Padilla [presiding], Klobuchar, 
Blumenthal, Cornyn, Tillis, and Hirono.
    Also present: Senator Durbin.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ALEX PADILLA,

          A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

    Chair Padilla. Good afternoon, everybody. I call to order 
this hearing of the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on 
Immigration, Citizenship, and Border Safety. This hearing will 
come to order, and I do thank you all for joining us today. 
This is a hearing to explore some critical and timely issues, 
and I want to thank--start by thanking our Ranking Member, 
Senator Cornyn, and his staff for once again working so 
collaboratively with me and my team in putting this hearing 
together. That's not always a given around here. I want to make 
sure, Senator Cornyn, you know how much I appreciate your 
partnership, both on this Subcommittee and in our other work 
together.
    We're here today to examine the challenges that many 
immigrants face in seeking lawful permanent resident status. 
For more than 200 years, people have come to the United States 
from around the world to seek refuge, pursue opportunity, and 
live the American dream. For generations, the dreams and hard 
work of immigrants have fueled our economy, sparked 
groundbreaking scientific discoveries, enhanced our national 
security, and strengthened our communities. That's why Congress 
has routinely created pathways for people around the world to 
live and work in this country, and to bring their families 
along with them.
    The immigration system that Congress designed to achieve 
those critical goals has failed to keep up with our needs in 
the 21st century. In this hearing, we'll hear testimony on 
barriers to the legal migration that routinely separate 
families across international borders for years. Visa caps that 
keep employers from expanding their businesses and hold back 
the U.S. economy, and arbitrary cutoffs for legal status that 
force children of visa holders to leave the only country 
they've ever known when they age out of their parents' visas.
    The gap between our country's needs and realities of our 
broken immigration system should come as no surprise. After 
all, Congress hasn't passed a significant update to our 
immigration policy in more than three decades. Think about 
that. We're still relying on an immigration framework that was 
last overhauled before the launch of the World Wide Web.
    This has had devastating consequences for hardworking 
families and the economy. Currently, there's a backlog of 1.4 
million people who are eligible for employment-based visas. 
Employment-based visas allow participating immigrants to bring 
extraordinary skills to our workforce, start new businesses, 
create new jobs in rural areas, and to help address worker 
shortages in industries like healthcare.
    Only 140,000 of these individuals can obtain visas every 
year. Because the spouses and children who accompany them count 
against a total, far fewer than 70,000 visas actually go to 
eligible workers. Hundreds of thousands of others are left in 
limbo, restricted by a temporary visa or turned away from their 
dreams, and they're kept from realizing their potential.
    Our immigration laws also cause years of delay for millions 
of family members who are otherwise eligible to join their 
relatives in the United States. The annual cap on family based 
visas is far lower than global demand, with about 7.7 million 
people stuck in our backlog. That means millions of parents and 
children, sisters and brothers, and married couples face years 
or even decades of separation. Wait times are further 
exacerbated by strict limits on how many visas can go to an 
individual country, and the term ``wait time'' for many is 
actually a cruel misnomer. For applicants from some countries, 
the ``wait time'' is literally longer than any human's life 
expectancy.
    It's past time to update our immigration laws to reflect 
the current needs of our Nation. I thank my colleagues who are 
leading commonsense bills to address these unnecessary barriers 
to legal migration. For instance, Senator Durbin, Chair of the 
Judiciary Committee, has the RELIEF Act, which would increase 
the availability of visas to reunite families. Senator 
Menendez's U.S. Citizenship Act would eliminate per-country 
caps, increase the number of green cards through the diversity 
visa program, and recapture millions of previously unused visas 
to reduce green card backlogs. Representative Lofgren's LIKE 
Act would create a pathway for immigrant entrepreneurs to 
strengthen our economy. I've worked across the aisle with 
Senator Paul to introduce the America's Children Act, which 
would create green card opportunities for children who grew up 
in the United States but are now aging out of their parents' 
temporary visas.
    The stakes of this work could not be higher. Professor 
Stephen Legomsky's joining us today to testify about how our 
outdated immigration laws are harming our communities and our 
economy. Mr. Melmed will focus on barriers to skills-based 
migration, and Athulya Rajakumar, a documented DREAMer and 
aspiring journalist, is here to share the story of her family's 
struggle through years of immigration limbo, which contributed 
to her brother's tragic death.
    Athulya, my heart goes out to you and your family, and I 
appreciate you being here and sharing your story. I'm outraged 
by this broken system that you, your brother, and thousands of 
documented DREAMers have had to face. We've organized this 
hearing today because we cannot allow the inaction of Congress 
to continue to cause this suffering.
    The United States was founded as a nation of immigrants, 
and it's time to honor that spirit once again. I know I'm here 
to put in the work. I'm ready to have constructive, productive 
conversations with our Republican colleagues. These issues need 
to be more than just bipartisan in spirit. We must act. We must 
fix this outdated system, and I know we can do it if we work 
together. Now, I want to recognize Ranking Member Cornyn for 
his opening remarks before we get to our witnesses in the 
balance of today's hearing. Senator Cornyn.

                 STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN CORNYN,

             A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

    Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for 
holding this hearing on barriers to legal immigration. We've 
long known the vital contribution immigrant workers make to our 
economic growth and to our national fabric. Last year in this 
Subcommittee, we heard testimony that foreign-born workers 
often bring special skill sets to the United States, and that 
U.S. economic growth over the last three decades would have 
been significantly lower in their absence.
    That's certainly the case in my home State of Texas, where 
we've benefited from the contributions of foreign-born workers 
in virtually every industry. Just as one example, it's been 
estimated that 30 percent of practicing physicians in the 
Dallas-Fort Worth area are foreign born. Thirty percent. 
Unfortunately, our current immigration system fails to harness 
the full economic potential of immigrant workers. The 
Congressional Research Service recently estimated that, without 
significant change, the employment-based green card backlog 
could exceed two million by the year 2030.
    Indian nationals have been hit especially hard, because our 
system's per-country caps do not allow them to receive more 
than 7 percent of the available employment-based visas in any 
given year. To make matters worse, due to processing 
inefficiencies attributable in part to USCIS's paper-based 
system and to the closures of many of our consulates, we failed 
to issue as many as 92,000 employment-based visas in the height 
of the pandemic.
    Senator Tillis has recently proposed the Preserving 
Employment Visas Act, which would recapture these unused visas 
and allow us to use them to reduce the employment-based green 
card backlog. I'm proud to be a cosponsor of that legislation, 
along with another Member of this Subcommittee, Senator Coons.
    I'd also like to highlight my work with the Chairman of the 
full Committee, Senator Durbin, on the Healthcare Workforce 
Resilience Act, which would recapture as many as 40,000 unused 
employment-based green cards, which would be used--issued to 
doctors and nurses. Many foreign physicians and nurses work on 
H-1B visas while waiting for a green card, and our legislation 
would help reduce that backlog.
    Finally, I'm a proud cosponsor of legislation last Congress 
that would've eliminated the per-country caps for employment-
based immigrants, ensuring that countries like India do not 
face disproportionately long backlogs. I highlight these bills 
to demonstrate the strong appetite for immigration reform on 
this side of the aisle.
    Unfortunately, the opportunity to act on these and other 
productive pieces of legislation has been completely derailed 
because of the current humanitarian crisis at our southern 
border. Since President Biden took office, we've seen 
historically high levels of illegal border crossings along our 
southwest border. Last month alone, Customs and Border 
Protection recorded 164,000-plus encounters along the southwest 
border, the highest total in more than 20 years, and that's 
just for last month. We know that as the weather warms up in 
the springtime, those numbers will continue to grow and grow.
    In spite of this, the administration doesn't seem to really 
care or take the problem of this crisis at the border 
seriously. Rather than deter would-be migrants with weak asylum 
claims from taking the dangerous journey to the southwest 
border, the administration has rolled out the welcome mat and 
created new incentives to illegally immigrate to the United 
States. For example, the Department of Homeland Security has 
adopted a policy of paroling migrants into the United States 
without first issuing them a notice to appear before an 
immigration judge, the document that formally commences 
immigration court proceedings.
    Unsurprisingly, a large percentage of these migrants don't 
show up and don't turn themselves in to the nearest ICE office 
when they reach their final destination in the United States. 
The Biden administration has also re-implemented and updated 
its Central American Minors program, and now allows migrants 
with asylum claims that were filed on or before May 15th, 2021, 
to petition to have their children brought to the United 
States.
    Two months ago, Senate Democrats asked Secretary of 
Homeland Security Mayorkas and Secretary of State Blinken to 
re-designate El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala, for 
temporary protected status. This would give migrants with 
nonexistent asylum claims another avenue for lawful status in 
the United States, and one that is unlikely to be truly 
temporary.
    Senator Sinema, Democrat from Arizona, another border 
State, and I have introduced narrow, targeted bipartisan 
legislation that would help us resolve the crisis on the 
southwest border. It would treat migrants fairly and deter 
those with weak asylum claims from attempting to cross in the 
first place. I'm pleased that Senator Tillis and Senator Hassan 
have joined us as bipartisan cosponsors.
    Democratic leadership could demonstrate that they were 
serious by taking up our Bipartisan Border Solutions Act as a 
first step to get the crisis on our southwest border under some 
semblance of control. There was a brief glimmer of hope last 
year when Senator Durbin, the Chairman of the Full Judiciary 
Committee, convened a working group to explore bipartisan 
immigration reform options. But rather than engage in a 
constructive process that actually produced solutions, Senator 
Durbin prematurely declared those talks a failure, claiming 
that Republicans made unreasonable demands. He advocated for a 
quixotic, partisan, go-it-alone approach that would create a 
pathway to citizenship for 6-to-8 million illegal immigrants.
    This, of course, came without any accompanying measures to 
increase border security or interior enforcement to ensure that 
the undocumented population doesn't accrue yet again. 
Thankfully, the Senate Parliamentarian ruled against this 
effort to go it alone and use the reconciliation process. 
Unfortunately, in taking this partisan tack, our Democratic 
colleagues have poisoned the well when it comes to bipartisan 
immigration reform. It will be difficult to rebuild the trust 
with one another in order to come up with bipartisan solutions.
    Having said that, I am willing to work with anyone, 
Republican or Democrat, to secure our borders and make it 
easier for legal immigrants to contribute to the American 
economy. Our best chance of updating our immigration laws lies 
in putting in the hard work necessary to craft consensus 
bipartisan legislation that make more targeted choices. As long 
as our colleagues across the aisle insist on a purely partisan 
measure with massive scope, the Senate will do what we have 
done for almost the entire time I've been here in the Senate, 
which is never fail to fail.
    I'm looking forward to the testimony today about the 
changes that would be suggested here to harness the full 
economic potential of our immigration system. I know that while 
we don't agree on every proposal today, Mr. Chairman, I hope we 
can continue to find common ground where we can. Mr. Chairman, 
may I say a word about Mr. Melmed, my--the third witness.
    Lynden Melmed is the third witness here today and a partner 
in the Berry Appleman & Leiden law firm here in DC. Before 
joining that firm, Lynden served as chief counsel of the U.S. 
Customs and Immigration Service, the agency's highest ranking 
legal position. As chief counsel of USCIS, Lynden managed a 
legal team of about 130 lawyers, and was a key advisor to 
senior leadership within USCIS, DHS, and the White House and 
other Federal agencies on all aspects of immigration law.
    Before he--before his role in USCIS, Lynden served as my 
immigration counsel when I was Chairman of this Subcommittee, 
and I value his counsel and advice on all matters pertaining to 
the subject matter of today's hearing. It's good to have you 
back again with us here, Lynden, in the Judiciary Committee. 
I'm sure the entire Subcommittee will benefit from your 
excellent counsel as I have in the past. Thank you very much.
    Chair Padilla. Thank you, Senator Cornyn. Before 
introducing the other two witnesses, I want to recognize 
Chairman Durbin for some remarks. Even before that, Senator 
Durbin, a couple comments on Senator Cornyn's remarks. I just 
want to make sure that we're not conflating two different 
dynamics here.
    Someone coming to the United States seeking refuge or 
asylum is very different than the case, that we're going to be 
hearing a perfect example of it today, of a young person who is 
here, who has been here lawfully as a child of an immigrant 
whose--has a lawful, employment-based visa and stuck waiting, 
stuck in a backlog so long that they age out of those 
protections with no means of changing status. I just want to 
make sure we don't conflate very different scenarios.
    As it pertains to the asylum system, it's important to 
recognize the asylum system is indeed a legal migration 
pathway. People who come to our border fleeing persecution and 
seeking protection have a legal right to ask for asylum. It may 
not be guaranteed, but they have a right to ask for it. Those 
who are able to establish a valid claim are allowed to stay 
here permanently and seek a green card after a year.
    There is a notion that immigrants are misusing the asylum 
system by filing false claims. The fact is false claims made by 
asylum applicants are extremely uncommon. In fact, 99 percent 
of all asylum seekers do appear for their hearing. Finally, 
expanding and increasing legal immigration avenues for family 
reunification, employment opportunities, and humanitarian 
relief would help disincentivize unauthorized immigration. I 
think it just continues to underscore the complexities of our 
immigration system and our need for modernization. With that, 
Senator Durbin.

              STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,

           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS,

    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the 
witnesses for being here today. Is there anyone in America who 
is not following what's going on in Ukraine? Turn on the 
television, every single day, for another heartbreaking scene. 
You wonder about those poor people. Those families at the train 
station or the mother holding the baby that's kissing her 
husband goodbye and wonders if she'll ever see him again. She 
takes that train, most times, to Poland. An interesting thing 
has happened. Poland now has received about 1 1/2 million 
refugees from Ukraine.
    We estimate that 3 million Ukrainians have left their 
country, 3 million refugees. Polish Ambassador spoke to us last 
week in a meeting, and he said, ``I hope you've noticed 
something. We don't have any refugee camps in Poland. The 
people who get off that train are greeted by Polish families 
who bring them into their homes. They welcome these refugees.'' 
They're not the only country in Europe that does that. There 
are only 5 million people living in Ireland. They've agreed to 
accept 100,000 Ukrainian refugees.
    You look at the United States of America, and you wonder, 
how would we have reacted to this situation? Three million 
displaced people in Ukraine out of a 40 million population. 
What is a comparable number in the United States? It's the 
State of Texas. Twenty-nine million people, if they were, in a 
matter of 3 weeks, displaced from their home and sent out 
around the Nation, around the region, trying to find a place to 
call home, would America respond? Would we open our doors to 
those refugees?
    I just suspect it's possible that many of the European 
countries that are accepting Ukrainians are accepting people 
who, by and large, look like them. By and large, have their 
same types of religion and culture and background. It's a fact 
of life that, when it comes to choosing refugees who are 
acceptable, we are much more caring when they look like our 
own. When they don't, we're not as welcoming.
    I hope that the United States will show, not just by 
appropriated funds, but by appropriated values, that we share 
the feeling of the people of Poland and others. Not just for 
these refugees, but for other refugees.
    There are some among us who just say, flat out, ``Make no 
mistake. I don't want a single one coming into this country. I 
don't want another immigrant, not one. If you're going to come 
up with ideas on how to bring more immigrants into this 
country, count me out.'' We have colleagues just like that. I 
know, I've spoken to them. I've listened to them. I've watched 
them over the years. Colleagues who never vote for an 
immigration bill, would not even consider it. I just don't 
understand that. We are a nation of immigrants. My mother was 
an immigrant. I'm proud of that fact. Her naturalization 
certificate sits behind my desk because it defines who I am and 
where I come from. We haven't updated this legal immigration 
system in America in, now, 32 years. Thirty-two years.
    In 2013, we tried to change it. I worked with a group of 
eight, led by John McCain and Schumer and Menendez and Bennett 
and Graham--I'm missing some here along the way. Senator Flake. 
We passed a bipartisan comprehensive immigration bill. Some 
Republicans wouldn't even vote for that, even though it 
contained more money for border security than we have ever 
appropriated. The bill passed the Senate 68-to-32. It provided 
a path to citizenship for millions of immigrants with deep 
roots in this country. I thought it was the answer. Republicans 
wouldn't consider it in the House, wouldn't even take it up. It 
would've established new protections for American workers, 
would've cleared the green card backlog, which is one of the 
reasons we're here today, and it would substantially increase 
future legal immigration. As I said, it wasn't taken up in the 
House. Then came the Trump administration.
    We saw unprecedented attacks on legal immigrants, the 
Muslim ban, the lowest refugee admissions targets for the 
United States of America in decades. You know what inspired us 
to create refugee admission targets in the United States? Our 
reflection on what we did during World War II, turning away the 
SS St. Louis, with hundreds of passengers, Jewish people, 
trying to escape the Holocaust in Europe. We turned them away. 
Many of them went back to Europe to die in the Holocaust.
    After that experience, we said as a Nation, ``That isn't 
what America's going to be in the future. Both parties are 
going to stand up and speak up for refugees in admissions into 
this country.'' We did it, consistently, until the last 
President.
    Last year, I convened a bipartisan immigration negotiation 
that dragged on for months. Senator Cornyn was speaking to it 
when I entered the room, so I didn't hear all he said, John, so 
I won't dwell on it. I was disappointed, because there were 
just people who were sitting at that table who wanted not one 
more immigrant. Maybe it's partisan on my part, maybe it is, 
but I believe we're a nation of immigrants and we would be 
stronger if we had them.
    One of those significant challenges that the Chairman of 
this Subcommittee just addressed, that's the lack of green 
cards. The numbers are stunning. Four million future Americans, 
4 million, are stuck in the family green card backlog overseas. 
Many of them are family members who want to be reunited with 
their families. I thought we were for family values. We changed 
that family migration into something called chain migration, 
and many of it--many people among the Senate Membership look on 
it in a negative way.
    With 4 million family members waiting to be reunited with 
their families overseas, how many family green cards do we 
issue each year? Two hundred twenty-six thousand. Do the math. 
More than 875,000 immigrants are stuck in the employment green 
card backlog in the United States. Eight hundred seventy-five 
thousand. We issue 140,000 employment green cards per year.
    One of the most heartbreaking consequences of the green 
card backlog is its impact on innocent children, and I know 
we're going to hear about that today. They've grown up in 
America. They believe this is their home. They want to be part 
of its future. They're college students. They're bright and 
ready to go. Current law strips them of their legal status when 
they reach the age of 21. As a result, they are, quote, ``aging 
out'' at 21.
    Athulya Rajakumar, and forgive me if I didn't pronounce 
your name correctly, one of our witnesses, is just such a 
person. Remarkable persistence despite tremendous obstacles. 
We'd be a better nation if you were a citizen here, and I hope 
we can make that happen. That's why I'm proud to sponsor 
Chairman Padilla's bipartisan bill, America's Children Act, 
which would provide a path to citizenship to you.
    I also commend my House colleagues for including a path to 
citizenship for so-called documented DREAMers. I introduced the 
DREAM Act 21 years ago in this room. Before that, if you asked 
people, ``Who are the DREAMers?'' they'd say, ``They're a 
British rock group, weren't they?'' No. They're a lot of young 
people who, for over 2 decades, have been looking for a chance.
    I've also introduced the RELIEF Act, which is based on the 
bipartisan 2013 comprehensive immigration bill. It will lift 
the arbitrary country caps that limit the number of green cards 
that go to immigrants for any single country in a given year. 
We need to help everyone stuck in a green card backlog, which 
is why this act would clear the backlog in 5 years. Not 20, 5 
years. Keep American families together.
    Also working closely with the House Judiciary Committee on 
the legal immigration reforms in Build Back Better. I hope the 
Senate will pass some measure like that this year. Though we 
have our disagreements, I want to thank Senator Cornyn for 
partnering with me to introduce the bipartisan Healthcare 
Workforce Resiliency Act. John, I don't know if you checked the 
cosponsorship lately. We're doing pretty good. I think we've 
got a chance to pass that. Addresses the plight of immigrant 
doctors and nurses stuck in the green card backlog.
    Strengthening our immigration system will make us a better 
country. Opening our doors to refugees will remind us of the 
goodness of the American people. Let's get the job done. Thank 
you, Chairman Padilla.
    Chair Padilla. Thank you, Senator Durbin. I want to lay out 
the mechanics for the rest of today's hearing. After I 
introduce and swear in the witnesses, they'll each have 5 
minutes to make their opening remarks. We'll then begin our 
first round of questions, and each Senator will have 5 minutes. 
I ask Senators to please try to remain within your allotted 
time. Now, our witnesses.
    Let's start with Professor Legomsky. Professor Stephen 
Legomsky is the John S. Lehmann University Professor Emeritus 
at the Washington University School of Law in St. Louis. 
Professor Legomsky took a leave of absence from 2011 to 2013 to 
serve as chief counsel of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration 
Services, the immigration services agency in the U.S. 
Department of Homeland Security. After retiring in July 2015, 
he returned to Washington to serve as senior counselor to 
Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson. He has served as a 
member of President Biden's transition team, and as a 
consultant to the transition teams of Presidents Clinton and 
Obama, the first President Bush's Commissioner of Immigration, 
the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees in Geneva, and several 
foreign governments on immigration and refugee policies. He has 
testified before Congress many times while in the private 
sector, and his book, Immigration and Refugee Law and Policy, 
has been the required text at 193 law schools.
    Today we also welcome Athulya Rajakumar. Ms. Rajakumar is a 
23-year-old recent graduate of the University of Texas at 
Austin, from the Moody College of Communication. Originally 
from India, she came to the United States when she was 4 years 
old, as a dependent of her mother's visa. Ms. Rajakumar grew up 
in Seattle, Washington and now resides in Dallas, Texas. She 
has completed her entire education from 1st grade to her 
bachelor's degree in the United States.
    Senator Cornyn has already introduced Mr. Melmed, so with 
that, I would ask each of the witnesses to please rise and be 
sworn in.
    [Witnesses are sworn in.]
    Thank you. You may be seated. Let the record reflect each 
of the witnesses responded in the affirmative. With that, 
Professor Legomsky. Let's go ahead and proceed with your 
opening statement.

               STATEMENT OF STEPHEN H. LEGOMSKY,

           PROFESSOR EMERITUS, WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY

               SCHOOL OF LAW, ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI

    Professor Legomsky. Thank you for the privilege of 
testifying before you today. It's now been more than 30 years, 
as several of you have now said, since Congress has last 
meaningfully updated the numerical limits on legal immigration. 
As you know, massive backlogs have now accumulated. Those 
backlogs have needlessly diminished so many of the benefits 
that immigrants bring us. My view, for all the reasons 
contained in my written statement, is that the U.S. could and 
should significantly increase the number of immigrants whom we 
admit each year.
    Whether or not one shares that view, I think there are four 
things that Congress can do now that would not increase total 
immigration, but would put a serious dent in the backlog and 
shorten the long waiting periods faced by qualified immigrants. 
These four measures don't change any of the individual criteria 
for admission as a lawful permanent resident, an LPR. They 
would, however, simply allow those immigrants who eventually 
will be admitted anyway to be admitted sooner rather than 
later. They would affect the timing of the given person's 
admission, but not the overall long-term numbers.
    As you know, the statute contains formulas for computing 
the annual worldwide caps on family sponsored and employment-
based immigrants. My first set of proposals calls for three 
changes to those formulas. Increasing the base numbers of 
480,000 and 140,000 respectively, recapturing all the visas 
that Congress has authorized but that have gone unused because 
of bureaucratic delays since the start of the current system in 
1992, and, in the family sponsored program, repealing the 
present deduction for the previous year's admission of 
immediate relatives.
    Second, one of the family sponsored subcategories consists 
of the so-called 2As. These are the spouses and the unmarried, 
under age 21 children of LPRs. At the moment, except for the 
across-the-board administrative processing delays, there's 
actually no waiting period for 2As. It hasn't always been that 
way, and there's no guarantee it won't become that way again.
    At times, 2As have had to wait as much as 5 1/2 years to 
join their nuclear families in the U.S.; even longer if they 
are from Mexico. This is an especially serious problem, because 
the petitions are usually filed soon after the sponsoring LPR 
is married or have children overseas. To be clear, for the most 
part, the people we're talking about here are newlyweds being 
separated for the first several years of their marriage, and 
parents being separated from their newborn babies for the first 
several years of the child's life. My second proposal, 
therefore, is to reclassify the 2As as immediate relatives, 
thus freeing them from the numerical limits that have given 
rise to these long delays. The humanitarian concerns are 
obvious, and my written statement contains several additional 
practical reasons to address these separations.
    Third, the current law also limits the number of qualified 
immigrants who may be admitted from any one country in a single 
year, as has been noted. The current per-country caps have 
produced extreme results, including very long waiting periods 
for Mexican and Filipino immigrants in the family category, and 
for Chinese and Indian immigrants in the employment category. 
My third proposal doesn't require repealing these per-country 
caps, although I personally would be in favor of doing so. It 
does call for raising them.
    My fourth proposal concerns lawfully admitted temporary 
workers, mainly the H-1Bs, whose petitions for employment-based 
LPR status have been approved, but who have been wait-listed 
for actual adjustment of status. This proposal would allow them 
to file their adjustment applications a certain amount of time 
in advance, to give UCSIS a head start on the processing.
    The fifth and final proposal, unlike the first four, would 
extend eligibility to some individuals who are currently 
blocked. It would repeal the various provisions that bar people 
from the U.S. for 3 years, for 10 years, or in some cases, for 
life because of past--not current, but past--unlawful presence. 
My own view is that the harshness of these bars is inherently 
disproportionate to the offenses that they mean to punish.
    The most severe consequences of these provisions fall on 
those immigrants who have been unlawfully present at one time 
or another, but who now satisfy all of Congress's substantive 
eligibility requirements for immigrating to the United States. 
By that I mean, they fall within one of the categories 
established by Congress: family, employment, etc. They don't 
fall with any inadmissibility grounds created by Congress, and 
they have waited their turn in line to the point where their 
priority dates are now current. For them, these bars create a 
procedural Catch-22.
    As my written statement explains, and I'll be happy to 
elaborate further if there's interest, they meet all these 
substantive requirements, but there's simply no place they can 
go to actually file their applications. For various reasons, 
they can't apply overseas. For various other reasons, they 
can't apply here in the United States as well. Again, I will be 
happy to elaborate. Thank you all once more.
    [The prepared statement of Professor Legomsky appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Padilla. Thank you, Professor Legomsky. I turn to Ms. 
Rajakumar for your testimony.

                STATEMENT OF ATHULYA RAJAKUMAR,

              GRADUATE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS

                    AT AUSTIN, DALLAS, TEXAS

    Ms. Rajakumar. Chairman Padilla, Ranking Member Cornyn, and 
Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
share my story. My name is Athulya Rajakumar. I'm a recent 
graduate of the University of Texas at Austin. I'm also a 
member of Improve the Dream, a youth-led organization that 
supports and advocates for over 200,000 young immigrants who 
grow up in the United States with a documented status but face 
self-deportation after aging out of the immigration system.
    I am a documented DREAMer. I was born in India, and when I 
was four and my brother was six, my mother left an abusive 
marriage in search of a better life for us. After graduating 
from San Jose State University, she secured a full-time job and 
was able to acquire a work visa. Eventually, in 2012, she was 
able to apply for her green card with me and my brother as her 
dependents. After nearly a decade in the green card backlog, I 
aged out in January 2020, when I turned 21.
    My single mother worked hard to support me and my brother 
on her own. Things were hard, but still, I remember making 
happy memories while building our new life, like eating red, 
white, and blue popsicles on 4th of July, driving through 
neighborhoods to look at Christmas lights, and watching my 
first baseball game at the Nationals' stadium just a few miles 
from here. These experiences, uniquely American, are not only 
unforgettable, but a part of who I am today.
    I learned very young that every aspect of my life would be 
controlled by my status. I could not participate in my high 
school's AP French exchange program, even though I was 
president of the French club, because I could not leave the 
country and guarantee a return. When I applied to colleges, I 
was considered an international student even though I completed 
1st through 12th grade in America. I had to answer questions 
like, ``What can you contribute to our institution as a 
resident from your country?'' I grew up in Seattle. Starbucks 
was founded there. I didn't know how much more American I could 
get.
    I also could not qualify for any Federal or university 
financial aid. Regardless, I worked hard, earned good grades to 
get direct admission into my dream program at Moody College of 
Communication's Journalism School, to pursue my long-term goal 
of becoming a journalist so I could use my voice to bring 
awareness to important issues.
    My brother and I were forced to raise ourselves because my 
mother was always working, not only to provide for us, but also 
to retain our visa status. Due to this uncertainty and anxiety, 
we both faced severe mental health issues, my older brother to 
a worse extent. He should've been pulled out of school, given 
proper medication and counseling, and at times I felt he 
should've been institutionalized. However, as H-4 dependents, 
we legally needed to be enrolled as full-time students to 
remain in this country. Though my mother wanted to quit her job 
and stay home with him, risking her job meant risking our 
entire life here.
    After college, he took the LSAT, in which he scored in the 
98th percentile and got into some of the best law schools in 
the country. We thought, if we cannot fight the immigration 
system, maybe we can work to help change it. His goal was to 
become an immigration lawyer and speak out for this group of 
children that America cannot see or refuses to recognize. 
However, the day before his orientation at the University of 
Washington, he took his own life.
    Our entire family was torn apart, and our worlds were 
turned upside down. I flew home and went from writing a school 
paper to his obituary in less than 24 hours. The most cruel 
part of this tragic situation was that we were not even given 
the proper time to mourn. Within 1 week, I was back in college, 
and by the end of the month, my mother had to be back at work.
    Once again, our visa status controlled our lives, even when 
one of us was dead. I can only describe his life as simply 
existing. Not living, but surviving. I'm 23 years old, I should 
be excited about my goals, but I'm scared because I know 
they'll be taken away from me by something I cannot control. I 
got a full-time offer from a major news corporation in Houston, 
a top ten market, but the same company who saw my potential 
withdrew their offer the second they heard about my visa 
status. Worst of all, being considered an alien, an outsider, 
in the only place you know to call home, is a different kind of 
pain.
    Without a change, in 8 months, I will be forced to leave 
not only my home of 20 years, but also my mom, who is my only 
family left. Over 5,000 documented DREAMers face this every 
year. Aaron, a nursing graduate, was forced to self deport last 
summer in the midst of a pandemic. Rutha, a data analyst 
student, was forced to self deport 2 months ago. Summer will be 
forced to self deport in 4 months, even though her family has 
legally resided here since she was a baby.
    Members of Improve the Dream hope that one day everyone who 
grows up in America can become an American citizen and fully 
contribute to our country. Members of this Subcommittee can 
make this a reality by passing America's Children Act, a 
bipartisan bill that would permanently end aging out and ensure 
that children like me, who are raised and educated with a 
documented status, receive a clear opportunity to apply for 
permanent residency. This bill would create a reality that most 
Americans likely assume already exists. The Subcommittee should 
also address root causes that lead to aging out, including the 
green card backlog and the flaws in our system that allow for 
lawful, long-term residence without any clear path to 
citizenship.
    Though the immigration system has constantly tested my 
faith, I am thankful my mom brought me here. We are Americans, 
and all we hope is to be recognized as that, to finally give 
meaning to the lives that we have lived here so far. I hope you 
can improve the dream for all of us. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Rajakumar appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Padilla. Thank you, Ms. Rajakumar. It takes courage 
to share your story. It's beyond moving. I know your mother is 
with us today, and I want to thank her for her courage as well. 
Mr. Melmed.

                 STATEMENT OF LYNDEN D. MELMED,

                  PARTNER AT BERRY APPLEMAN &

                     LEIDEN, WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. Melmed. Thank you, Chairman Padilla. Ranking Member 
Cornyn, good to see you. Appreciate the opportunity to testify 
today.
    As the Chairman mentioned, my testimony is going to focus 
on barriers to skilled immigration. If you ask any company in 
any industry today where Congress should place its efforts on 
addressing that problem, you will encounter something rare in 
immigration debate: consensus. Almost all companies agree that 
the lengthy green card backlog and related per-country limits 
make it difficult to attract and retain high-skilled 
immigrants.
    When I joined the Government in 2002, not a single 
employment-based immigrant, irrespective of nationality, had to 
wait for a green card number. Two decades later, it is 
estimated there could be as many as 1.4 million employment-
based immigrants in the backlog, and nationals of India and 
China face decades long wait times. Compounding the outdated 
numerical limits, hundreds of thousands of green card numbers 
have been wasted because the agency was unable to use them 
within the fiscal year. Last year, approximately 80,000 
numbers--although I heard earlier, maybe more than 100,000 
numbers--went unused. Halfway through the current fiscal year, 
the data suggests the agencies will fall short again, perhaps 
by an even bigger amount.
    I'd like to pause on this point. Agency processing capacity 
now has a larger impact on immigration levels and flows than 
any legislation passed by Congress in the past few decades. The 
agencies have legal authority to remediate prior shortfalls. 
There's legislation that I know many Members here have 
introduced and sponsored, and I encourage Congress to address 
that issue.
    Lengthy green card wait times have near-term and long-term 
consequences for U.S. competitiveness. Knowing that they will 
have to wait decades for a green card in the U.S., highly 
skilled foreign nationals are increasingly taking their talents 
to other countries, including Canada. Toronto now leads the 30 
top tech markets for job growth in the U.S. and Canada, and 
Vancouver ranks third. A key component of Canada's job growth 
is its willingness to grant permanent residence to high-skilled 
immigrants without delay.
    Fifty-six percent of new immigrants to Canada will enter 
through economic channels. In contrast, only 6 percent of legal 
immigrants to the U.S. enter through economic channels. There 
is, however, one essential way that the U.S. employment-based 
system is superior. Our employer sponsorship model is very 
efficient at aligning immigrant skills with a labor market, 
which reduces the likelihood that the country will admit highly 
skilled workers that end up underemployed.
    As you heard earlier, the green card backlogs place 
employees and their families in very difficult and heart 
rendering situations. Many high-skilled immigrants from India, 
including those who graduate from U.S. universities and work in 
critical STEM fields, will face the choice of leaving the U.S. 
or remaining on a temporary work visa for their entire life. 
Those outcomes are inconsistent with our country's values, but 
they also undermine our economic interest. The U.S. is losing 
key employees and limiting the career progress of those that 
remain in the system at a time when there is already a 
shortfall and record unemployment, particularly in computer-
related occupations.
    Furthermore, the children of green card applicants can age 
out, as you heard earlier. There's little that I can add to Ms. 
Rajakumar's powerful testimony, other than to validate that the 
legal options for documented DREAMers are few and far between.
    Finally, I wish to call attention to how the green card 
backlog relates to processing delays at the agencies. High-
skilled workers in a backlog must repeatedly extend their 
status and work and travel documentation, often for years on 
end. The family of a high-skilled immigrant will file multiple 
applications while waiting in that backlog. Today the 
Government often takes over a year to process a simple 
employment authorization document.
    Not only does that processing time force business 
disruption on thousands of companies and workers, but those 
extra applications get added to a case processing backlog that 
is really difficult to get your head around. In 2013, the 
agency had 3 million pending applications. Today, that backlog 
exceeds 9.5 million and is expected to grow. I raise this 
because I'm often asked how the agencies can address processing 
delays, and it is clear to me that the Government can't keep 
doing the same thing as they did in the past and hire its way 
out of the problem. Congress and the agencies should focus on 
how immigrants move through the system and eliminate 
unnecessary steps and bureaucracy.
    In closing, I want to thank the Committee for calling 
attention to this important issue. I outlined several policy 
options for Congress and the agencies to consider, and I look 
forward to answering your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Melmed appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Melmed. Thank you to all 
three of you for your testimony. Now questions from the 
Committee.
    A major failure of the U.S. immigration system is the 
failure to consider the fate of the children of temporary visa 
holders. While their parents have applied for green cards, 
applications remain stuck in years-long backlogs. There are 
currently over 250,000 children of long-term temporary visa 
holders who are at risk of aging out from the protection of 
their parents' status. These are individuals who, like Ms. 
Rajakumar, have grown up in the United States, have contributed 
greatly to their communities, and who are unmistakably 
American.
    For these documented DREAMers, as they're called, there are 
almost no pathways to remain in the country after aging out of 
their parents' visas. When they turn 21, they face the 
impossible decision of leaving their families to return to a 
country that is often completely foreign to them or living 
undocumented in the shadows.
    I introduced the bipartisan America's Children Act, which 
would create green card opportunities for these children, and 
fix this often overlooked inequity in our immigration system. 
Ms. Rajakumar, again, thank you for sharing your story with us. 
If I may, can you explain how the enactment of the bill--I know 
you're familiar with it--how it would impact your life, and 
what having a pathway to citizenship would mean to you.
    Ms. Rajakumar. First and foremost, what comes to my brain 
is that my mom and I would not be immediately separated. 
Second, it would allow me to pursue my desired career path, 
gain experience, and while these are tangible things I can 
point out, the biggest thing it would do is allow me to build 
my life here permanently and contribute to the place that I've 
called home for 20 years without fear that it would be taken 
away from me.
    Chair Padilla. Thank you. Second question is for Mr. 
Melmed. Do you think it makes sense for immigration system to 
allow children to be brought here on their parents' visa, 
raised and educated here, oftentimes for decades, but not have 
a clear opportunity to become an American citizen because their 
parents' green card petition is stuck in the backlog?
    Mr. Melmed. Chairman, it doesn't make sense, and if I could 
add a couple of additional points----
    Chair Padilla. Make sure your microphone is on.
    Mr. Melmed. Chairman, it doesn't make sense, and if I could 
add additional points to that question is that the backlog that 
they are experiencing was not contemplated by Congress 
previously. Backlogs are not new to the immigration system. You 
can say, in fact, that 70 years ago, there were backlogs in the 
immigration system. Congress has, on multiple times, enacted 
relief for children who are aging out. This particular group 
that Ms. Rajakumar is part of was not considered because those 
backlogs didn't exist at the time that Congress previously 
considered this issue.
    The second, very sympathetic factor about the situation 
that they encountered themselves in is part of my testimony, is 
that these backlogs didn't exist as recently as 2013. At the 
time that the parents enter the country on the temporary work 
visas, it wasn't like they could have known. None of us really 
necessarily foresaw the explosion in those backlogs over the 
ensuing decade.
    As I did mention, Congress has wrestled with this issue 
before. There's been various policy solutions, including in 
some situations, freezing their age, and other times using a 
formula to back out agency processing times to afford relief. 
There are a few options for Congress to consider to provide 
relief, and they can look at prior legislation perhaps as a 
road map.
    Chair Padilla. I share your observation, not just on this 
particular dynamic, but more broadly. What's clear from today's 
testimony is that our immigration laws are outdated and no 
longer serve the purpose for which they were created. Reforming 
our family, employment, and diversity visa systems would be in 
the best interest of our economy and our communities. Professor 
Legomsky, in your testimony, you highlighted several ideas to 
help reform the system and reduce the harmful backlog.
    I'd like to ask specifically about the idea of 
reclassifying spouses and unmarried children of legal permanent 
residents who are applying for family based green cards. Right 
now, those individuals are subject to the arbitrary numerical 
limits, but your suggestion would be to classify them as 
immediate relatives, a category of relatives that is not 
subject to the numerical caps. Professor, can you explain why a 
fix to this category of family based petitioners would have 
significant impact on reducing the backlog?
    Professor Legomsky. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think my 
strongest reason for feeling this would be a good fix just 
focuses on who these people are in reality. As I mentioned 
during my original remarks, these are people who petitioned for 
their spouses--for their new spouses or their newborn babies 
sometime after becoming an LPR.
    I should explain that if you are admitted as an LPR, the 
current law does allow you to bring with you your accompanying 
spouse and under age 21, unmarried children. The problem is 
that if you immigrate as an LPR and then you get married to 
someone who is not a citizen, or then you get married to 
someone and have a baby overseas, those children and spouse 
fall into the 2A category rather than the accompanying 
category. Although there currently is no wait as I mentioned, 
there were very long waits before.
    The reason I focus on who these people are is that, because 
the petitions are filed typically soon after the event, we are 
talking about separating newlywed couples and separating 
parents from their newborn babies for the first several years 
of their lives. My guess is that people of all political 
stripes would recognize this to be a serious problem, a 
particularly heartbreaking one. There are a couple other 
practical reasons as well.
    One is that, since the family members cannot come here 
until their visa numbers come up, if the LPR wants to maintain 
any semblance of a family life, what that person is going to 
have to do is periodically and frequently travel overseas to 
visit his or her family members, often at great disruption to 
the person's job, often at great expense. Third, and I know 
this will be a little more controversial, it seems to me that 
when the waits do become this long, you're practically inviting 
illegal immigration.
    I want to be clear that I'm not advocating illegal 
immigration. I'm simply calling attention to the reality that 
human nature will have to be remade before newlywed spouses 
willingly separate for years at a time at the beginning of 
their marriage. Human nature will have to be remade before 
parents willingly separate from their newborn babies for the 
first several years the child's life. My guess is that most of 
us in this room would not do so. These are compelling--
particularly compelling circumstances for the family sponsored 
2As.
    Chair Padilla. Thank you. Senator Cornyn.
    Senator Cornyn. Ms. Rajakumar, it's nice to meet you. I 
hate for it to be under these circumstances. I certainly am 
sympathetic to your conundrum and those others like you that 
have aged out of the H-1B system. I'd like to work with Senator 
Padilla on the legislation he's introduced to come up with a 
solution.
    I'm very sympathetic to not only your situation, but for 
the other immigrants who've come here as children, known 
sometimes as the DREAMers, sometimes as DACA recipients for the 
Deferred Action on Childhood Arrival memorandum that President 
Obama issued 10 years ago, which continues to be caught up in 
litigation, which is a reason why that sort of executive action 
is a bad way to do immigration reform. I voted for a bill that 
contained other elements, maybe, sure, but which provided a 
pathway to citizenship for 1.8 million DREAMers or DACA 
recipients. Unfortunately, it failed in the Senate, which has 
been the story since I've been in the Senate.
    We, Congress, has never been successful in getting an 
immigration reform bill to the President's desk for his 
signature since I've been here. I think that should be an 
embarrassment to us all. Mr. Melmed, let me ask you two 
questions.
    First, is the problem of H-1B dependents aging out a 
symptom of greater underlying problem with our immigration 
system, in your view?
    Mr. Melmed. Ranking Member Cornyn, absolutely. You know, 
these are, for the most part, immigrants who have already 
established to the Government that they are eligible for a 
green card. They have--their employers have already gone 
through a multi-year process to establish that there's no 
qualified and available U.S. workers, their employers have 
repeatedly sponsored them for work visas, showing an ongoing 
need, and their communities and their employers have invested a 
huge amount in them. The sole reason that they are aging out is 
because they are caught in that green card backlog, and it 
falls most heavily on Indian nationals who are limited by the 
per-country 7 percent limit.
    Senator Cornyn. Is the America's Children Act consistent 
with the approach Congress has used to address these problems 
in the past, in your view?
    Mr. Melmed. When Congress--you know, even recently as last 
week with EB-5, Congress historically has taken--well, there's 
been--excuse me, let me back up. There's been consensus to 
protect children when this has been brought to the attention of 
Congress, so I'll start with that. The solutions that Congress 
has pursued in the past have generally focused on either--I use 
the term ``freezing'' the child's age at a certain date in the 
green card process, so even though the child will sometimes be 
in their 20's or 30's, they're still for immigration law 
purposes considered a child. Other times, the relief utilizes a 
formula to ensure that they just back out the amount of time a 
case was pending with the Government, which can sometimes, of 
course, measure years.
    What they didn't do is necessarily create a different path 
to a green card. What I mean by that is that the children 
continued to ride along as derivatives to their parents' green 
card application, as opposed to going out onto their own 
application for a green card. Those are just different policy 
decisions. Both should be considered, but you're correct, in 
the past it was done as where they stayed as derivatives to 
their parents.
    Senator Cornyn. Assuming that we can come up with a 
bipartisan response to this particular problem that Ms. 
Rajakumar's situation exemplifies, it would require, of course, 
the Judiciary Committee as a whole to mark up a bill, and then 
Senator Schumer to bring it to the floor, as the Senate is 
currently constituted.
    I know Senator Tillis and I previously had requested, when 
it came to the larger group of DACA recipients who'd been 
caught up in litigation for the last 10 years, we've requested 
that the Chairman put a bill in front of the Judiciary 
Committee so we can vote on it, amend it as appropriate, and if 
it gets a majority vote, then make it available for floor 
action. Unfortunately, that has--that has not happened.
    Mr. Melmed, let me ask you about visa overstays. What role 
do visa overstays play in terms of illegal immigration in the 
United States?
    Mr. Melmed. I apologize, maybe at one point I could cite 
the numbers off the top of my head, but it's a significant 
percentage. Historically, it's been over 40 percent are visa 
overstays. I hazard a guess that that number is higher over the 
past few years as a percentage of the undocumented immigration. 
You know, there's been efforts throughout the years to improve 
entry-exit tracking and to have a better sense of who has 
overstayed their lawful status. I think that the tools that are 
available to the agencies today are different than they were 
back in 1996, which is really the last time Congress tried to 
tackle the question of overstays, and it's probably ripe now 
for review to look at that question.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you.
    Chair Padilla. A note before recognizing Senator Durbin, 
the American Children's--America's Children Act bipartisan 
basis introduced includes a provision to freeze their age at 
21, would also give work authorization. The main benefit of the 
American Children's Act would be it creates an opportunity for 
the children who are raised and educated here to apply for a 
green card, and we should do what we can to help them. Just 
wanted to add that piece of information as we're talking about 
the proposed act. Senator Durbin.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Ms. 
Rajakumar, I assume that is your mother sitting behind you?
    Ms. Rajakumar. Yes. It is.
    Chair Durbin. She's a remarkable person.
    Ms. Rajakumar. Definitely.
    Chair Durbin. That she would want to protect you and your 
family and go to these lengths says a great deal about you. 
Thank you so much. When will she receive a green card? Does she 
have a date?
    Ms. Rajakumar. Actually, shortly after I aged out of the 
application, my mother did receive her green card. Which is 
why, if I was forced to leave in 8 months, we would first and 
foremost be separated. While she may have the opportunity to 
come visit me from time to time, our lives would be in 
completely separate places.
    Chair Durbin. Of course. Mr. Melmed, our omnibus bill had 
more money for processing, which you raised. I think is a valid 
point. Wouldn't you agree that, unless we get to the heart of 
the issue in terms of the number of green cards, that we are 
going to continue to run into issues even if we are efficiently 
processing applications?
    Mr. Melmed. Absolutely, Senator Durbin. At this point in 
the process, for an Indian national, the agency processing 
times are checked with our firm before appearing. The overall 
green card process is still measured in years, in terms of 
agency processing. The issue that their family ran into is tied 
solely to the lack of green card numbers.
    Chair Durbin. It's not just a matter of appropriating the 
money. We've got to do something.
    Mr. Melmed. Yes, sir. It's up to Congress.
    Chair Durbin. That's an honest appraisal, thank you very 
much.
    Mr. Legomsky, thank you for acknowledging the obvious. We 
are dealing with real lives here. We can write laws trying to 
condition conduct, and we know in our own personal experience, 
newlyweds want to be in the same household. Families want to be 
close to one another. There's nothing wrong with those 
instincts. In fact, we reward them in many places in the law. 
But in immigration law, we challenge them way too often. Thanks 
for your service.
    Mr. Chairman, I'm glad that Senator Cornyn has returned. I 
have a bill called the RELIEF Act which goes after the green 
card issue and aging out children. You have a bill which I've 
cosponsored, America's Children Act. I want to accept the 
challenge that Senator Cornyn has made. I want Senator Tillis 
to be in on this conversation, because he and I have talked 
about this too.
    Let's put a bill before this Committee. Let's see what 
elements we can agree on and put it before this Committee. 
Let's test--Full Committee. Let's test whether or not we can 
expand it in certain directions. I have Members from your side 
of the aisle, Senator Tillis, coming up to me--not a great 
number, but some--saying, ``Am I going to get a chance to vote 
on DREAMers in this year?'' I haven't been able to say anything 
to them one way or the other. I want to say something to them. 
I want to give them that chance, but I think we have to test, 
in the Judiciary Committee, whether we can put together a 
bipartisan effort that can make it to the floor so we can 
implore McConnell and Schumer to give us our chance.
    There are just too many people like Ms. Rajakumar, whose 
lives are hanging in the balance. I don't want to be guilty of 
not trying. Mr. Chairman, I would want to join with you, 
because you've been an amazing leader on immigration in the 
short time that you've been with us. Let's do that. Let's 
decide what is acceptable and then test whether other things 
can be added to it and bring something to the floor. Let's not 
go another 32 years without a bill.
    Chair Padilla. Thank you, Senator Durbin. Senator Tillis.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Chair Durbin, I 
appreciate you saying that too. I think that's the best way for 
us to get the work done. A few years ago we had two bills on 
the floor that came very, very close. We had a historic number 
of Republicans voting for a path to citizenship for the DACA 
population. We almost got where we needed to be on addressing 
some of the border security issues. We can, I think, dust that 
off and come up with something productive. You know, I, for 
one, would like for this to be the Congress where we address 
the DACA population that we also address some of these guest 
worker programs and green card issues, which, to me, I lived 
firsthand.
    I got exposed to the H-1B process in my job as a partner at 
Pricewaterhouse. I've tried to tell anyone who thinks that we 
just need to find more computer scientists, more data analysts, 
more people with advanced degrees from the U.S. population, 
that they need to wake up and recognize that if we want our 
economy to continue to grow, if we want to continue to build on 
this great economy, that we've got to look to legal immigration 
as a critical part of fulfilling our workforce needs and really 
growing our innovation economy. Mr. Melmed, you were chief 
counsel at CIS, right?
    Mr. Melmed. Yes, sir.
    Senator Tillis. It seems to me that they are working on 
technology that existed largely before Myspace existed. If--I 
mean, just based on your business perspective of that 
operation, the lack of electronic systems, it just seems like 
there's not going to be enough oil in the gears of CIS to even 
just process the current backlog. For people like me, who would 
like to see more going through, that they're going to have to 
really modernize, and we are going to have to make the 
investments to allow them to do that. Do you agree?
    Mr. Melmed. Absolutely, Senator. I know my colleague, 
Professor Legomsky, also supported the Agency as they were 
wrestling with this after me. Being on the outside now, it's 
pretty phenomenal the way technology is transforming business. 
There are some positive signs out of the immigration agency 
this year. They've now been running the H-1B registration 
system as an online tool for a couple years, and that's gone 
well and successfully. They're starting to do more online 
payments, but that gives you an idea of how far they are behind 
the private sector in terms of case management.
    Senator Tillis. Wow, online payments.
    Mr. Melmed. It's still a paper-based process and very slow.
    Senator Tillis. You know, I also agree, Professor, that 
when you build--and I, you know, I've got lifelong friends 
that, back in the 1990s, brought on as H-1B visa workers, and I 
saw firsthand that connection to family members as they--these 
were some younger, freshly out of graduate school or with a 
PhD, building a life and building a family, getting caught up 
in all the things we're talking about here. That's why we do 
have to look at it. Because it's actually a drain and a 
distraction on the professionals. It actually undermines 
productivity and their quality of life, and I think that we do 
have to look at it through that lens.
    Mr. Melmed, are you familiar with the Preserving Employment 
Visas Act that we proposed?
    Mr. Melmed. I'm familiar with it, yes, Senator.
    Senator Tillis. Does it make sense conceptually that if we 
have all these unused visas, we have 7 million, 8 million plus 
job openings, that that's at least going to take a portion out 
of that pressure that we have today?
    Mr. Melmed. It does, Senator.
    Senator Tillis. I also think that I've heard in several 
hearings now that we're tracking a lot more entrepreneurs. A 
lot more new businesses have opened up. I think the COVID 
pandemic has made people either pursue dreams that they had on 
the shelf or just pursue other ways to make an income. They may 
never be going back to those jobs. Aren't we really undermining 
our ability to grow the economy and get back to a post-COVID 
kind of performance if we don't look at these issues?
    Mr. Melmed. We are, and I would note that immigrants are--I 
saw the statistic--25 percent more likely to start new 
businesses. Hundreds of thousands of high-skilled, professional 
workers can't leave their employer today. Otherwise, they 
jeopardize their green card application. Both shortening that 
time period and allowing them to get their green card and then 
go out and start on their own, or creating other opportunities, 
are all going to boost the economy.
    Senator Tillis. That, you know, I think, just back on 
DACA--why I was so glad to hear what Senator Durbin has 
proposed. We did a lot of research on people who would be 
qualified through the DACA program. If you were to take a 
cohort of, depending upon the estimates, of 1.8 million to 2.2 
million that would be eligible for the program, about 700,000 
who had enrolled in it. There are extraordinary people. They 
tend to have higher levels--they're either engaged in 
education, gainfully employed, serving in the military.
    I mean--for anyone who would have a philosophical problem 
with a path to citizenship for that population should probably 
do their homework because I actually think it's a group of 
people that we should figure out a way to solve that problem. I 
do also believe, Mr. Chairman, the only way we're going to 
solve it is to have a broader discussion about some of these 
other things that I believe that--we can ultimately put a 
package together and make significant progress, and I hope that 
progress is made in this Congress. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chair Padilla. Thank you, Senator Tillis. I just want to 
compliment you on your effort, as well, on the Preserving 
Employment Visas Act, which would represent a great step 
forward in reducing the employment-based backlog. After today, 
I'd love to work with you to see if we can incorporate some of 
the relief to the family based backlog that we're talking about 
as well. Next is Senator Klobuchar.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thanks 
for your great leadership here, and all the Senators. We have 
an all-star cast of people that have worked on this issue, 
including the Chair, Senator Tillis and Senator Durbin, Hirono, 
and Blumenthal.
    I have cared a lot about this for a long time. I've cared a 
lot about it because my State is the home of so many refugees 
and immigrants. We have the biggest population of Somalis, the 
biggest population of Liberians, second biggest of Hmong, and 
we also have workforce issues right now. It is both where my 
heart is, but also where my head is when it comes to our 
economy throughout our State.
    Our unemployment rate is very, very low in Minnesota, way 
below the national average. We have traditionally, because of 
bringing in immigrants, have been able to maintain one of the 
strongest economies in the country, which includes one of the 
highest per capitas of Fortune 500 companies.
    I'll start with you, Mr. Melmed. In your opening statement 
you discussed how the U.S. is falling behind. I think about 
this all the time. When we have job openings, we can't fill 
them with various skill levels of employees. I literally go 
into companies, and I think about it, because we talk about 
apprenticeships in workforce and then I always say, what's the 
most immediate thing we can do to shake this up? It's 
immigration reform. It's visas. It's all different things to 
create pathways to citizenship. What do you think--what 
policies do you think have the most detrimental effect right 
now on the ability of American companies to attract and retain 
top talent?
    Mr. Melmed. Senator, I would start with, one, maximizing 
the immigrants who are already here. What we hear from our 
clients and companies is that they have employees who are 
caught in the green card backlog, and that limits their 
progress. It limits the roles that they can take on. As I 
mentioned just a few minutes ago, it limits their abilities to 
go out and create new enterprises. The green card backlog and 
per-country issues, those are already here. I'd start with 
that.
    The other issue you hear about, I suspect, is from 
companies who look to hire out of U.S. universities. Such a 
high percentage of graduates, particularly in STEM fields, are 
in computer-related occupations. If a company today asked me, 
right now, they have a top candidate out of a U.S. university 
that they want to hire and sponsor for a work visa, the 
earliest that individual could start would be not this October, 
but the following October.
    Senator Klobuchar. Exactly. I've found it's even, for some 
of our smaller companies, it's harder to get in line to get 
these employees because they may not have quite the structure 
to pursue the whole thing. Very good, thank you.
    I'm going to turn to a bill I'm working on right now for 
our Afghan refugees. We're taking in a number of them in 
Minnesota, and this bill would provide a pathway to permanent 
legal status for Afghan refugees who were evacuated. I guess 
I'd ask you, Professor Legomsky, what should we be doing for 
these refugees and for others in order to--who are facing long 
waits and processing times, and why is it important to change 
that?
    Professor Legomsky. Thank you for that question. I think 
your solution is exactly the right one. We should be providing 
a path to lawful permanent resident status. I think that the 
situation of all refugees is compelling, but in the case of the 
Afghan refugees, there are more reasons still. The big one, and 
the obvious one, is that these are folks who, at great risk to 
their own lives, have assisted American civilians and American 
military personnel in Afghanistan. With all the trauma they 
have already been through, we don't need to superimpose the 
additional trauma of not knowing whether, at any moment, they 
will suddenly be picked up and returned home.
    For their children, the situation is probably even more 
dire, because they have less understanding of what is going on. 
For their older children, the awareness is even greater. A path 
to permanent resident status, I think, is the best thing we can 
do at this point.
    Senator Klobuchar. Mr. Melmed, one other thing I wanted to 
note--and thank you for that answer. Foreign doctors who are 
from other countries, but they are doing their medical--getting 
their medical degrees in the U.S. and do their residencies. 
Crazy situation where they have to go back to their home 
country. We'd love them to stay. This is the Conrad 30 bill. I 
now have 20 other co-sponsors, bipartisan. It's a bill that I 
have with Collins, Rosen, and Ernst to try and continue that 
program and make it even stronger. It's called the Conrad 30 
because it is named after Kent Conrad, because North Dakota had 
so many problems in retaining, as Senator Cornyn, another all-
star cast member of people who want to get immigration reform 
done, knows, and so that would be very important.
    Do you also think that we need to make the case--I always--
this is always one of my big things, trying to make the case. I 
think businesses know it, but sometimes I think our citizens 
need to understand that connection with businesses. Senator 
Cornyn, Coons, and Murkowski and I did a bill to require the 
Department of Labor to study the barriers that immigrants with 
advanced training face in finding employment when you look at 
our needs right now. Do you want to just comment briefly on 
that? Then I've got to let my other colleagues take a shot 
here.
    Mr. Melmed. I'd be remiss if I didn't comment on foreign 
physicians, as I'm a child of an immigrant foreign physician 
who settled in Dallas, Texas. I think, historically, the United 
States has been effective in identifying ways where there's 
win-win opportunities. Bringing foreign physicians to serve 
medically underserved areas is--has been done in the past, and 
it's an important tool at our disposal, and Congress should 
definitely continue to utilize that program.
    Senator Klobuchar. I'll ask you a question on the record, 
Ms. Rajakumar. Thank you. We'll get you one in writing so 
others can go. Thank you.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    Chair Padilla. Thank you, Senator Klobuchar. Senator 
Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chair. I join in thanking 
you and the Ranking Member for your work, and especially on 
this issue of enabling more of our communities and our 
businesses to make use of foreign talent. It is one of the 
really great strengths of our Nation that we are a nation of 
immigrants. From all over the world, including Ukraine and 
Afghanistan, possibly the two greatest recent sources.
    I've been working very, very energetically to enable more 
of our Afghan at-risk allies to leave that country. There has 
been only a trickle after the initial surge of those who were 
able to depart the country in the initial days of the 
withdrawal. I am frustrated by the slow pace at this point and 
continued lack of enabling of those individuals to leave the 
country. They are a source of potential talent to us because 
they are the translators, interpreters, guides, workers.
    I'm wondering, Professor Legomsky, whether there's any 
precedent in recent history for enabling that kind of 
population to go from temporary protected or parole status, as 
they are now, with the sword of Damocles over their heads very 
shortly, actually, having to leave the country, to deal with 
that kind of major part of the population in those numbers.
    Professor Legomsky. I can't think of a specific example in 
which Congress has adjusted a large group of people from TPS 
status directly to either refugee or lawful permanent resident 
status. There's certainly, however, been many executive actions 
in which former Presidents have allowed particular groups of 
those who face compelling humanitarian needs to be paroled into 
the United States.
    One thing I will say about TPS is that, sometimes the 
objection you hear to making their status permanent, is that 
TPS was meant to be only a temporary program. I take that 
objection seriously, but my own view is that, whatever the 
original purpose of the admission of a particular group, 
circumstances change. Sometimes for humanitarian or even for 
interest--reasons of national self-interest, it makes sense to 
adjust that population. I'd be hard pressed to think of a group 
more deserving of that kind of treatment than the Afghan 
refugees who have been so helpful to us.
    Senator Blumenthal. As you say, they've put their lives on 
the line for us, our troops and our diplomats, in Afghanistan. 
They did it because they love this country, because they value 
freedom and democracy, and they were willing to put themselves 
and their families at risk to serve us. We have a moral 
obligation here that transcends any self-interest, I think.
    You mention executive actions by Presidents--former 
Presidents. Can you give me a couple?
    Professor Legomsky. I was afraid you were going to ask me 
that because my memory is starting to slip.
    Senator Blumenthal. You can get back to me.
    Professor Legomsky. Okay, I will. Thank you.
    Senator Blumenthal. Okay. In my home State of Connecticut, 
my office has seen the kind of backlog that's been described by 
many of your colleagues--you're familiar with it--in 
immigration processing times for pending applications. My own 
case workers have seen I-765 employment authorization 
applications waiting for months, literally months on end, and 
that's the reason that I advocated for an additional $200 
million in funding for USCIS as part of an effort to address 
the backlogs. You may have answered this in part already, but 
could you give me a specific to-do list with that money for 
USCIS?
    Professor Legomsky. Yes. I'm a little bit limited in what I 
can say because it has been 8 years since I've served as chief 
counsel, and I have to assume that at least some procedures 
have changed. I will say that, in all honesty, during my time 
there, it's not as if I noticed lots of obvious inefficiencies 
in the way applications were being processed. My own view is 
that it's a positive thing that Congress, I believe for the 
first time for this fiscal year, has supplemented USCIS 
revenues with appropriations of its own. Normally, it's 
reliant--USCIS is reliant solely on the fees provided by the 
applicants themselves.
    In addition to that, nobody can be against constantly being 
on the lookout for ways to enhance efficiency. To put this 
question in perspective, I think that both increasing 
efficiency and supplementing funds--both of which I count as 
positive steps--alone would produce just a small drop in the 
bucket. The big problem, and Senator Durbin has alluded to 
this, is that Congress has to act by dramatically raising the 
caps for people. That's where the big gains are likely to be 
made. Until that happens, I think efficiency gains will get us 
only marginal improvement.
    Senator Blumenthal. Would you agree, Mr. Melmed?
    Mr. Melmed. I do agree with Professor Legomsky. I think 
until there are some efficiencies through digitization that 
Senator Tillis mentioned, and those would be measured in 
percentages, not major levers to reduce, I think the issues 
that we've talked about in terms of green card backlog, I 
just--if I could highlight the employment authorization 
document delay that your constituent services teams are 
wrestling with day in and day out. That's a backlog that's just 
going to continue to increase. As I mentioned, you can't hire 
your way out of that. You've got to somehow reduce the number 
of pending applications.
    This administration has, to their credit, lengthened the 
validity of those documents, and that's helped a little bit but 
obviously not enough. Some of those bigger levers need to be 
pulled to bring that processing time down.
    Senator Blumenthal. It doesn't speed it. It just lets more 
people wait in line for longer periods.
    Professor Legomsky. Correct.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Thank you--thank you all for 
being here today.
    Chair Padilla. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. Senator 
Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm glad that 
Senator Durbin acknowledged the presence of Ms. Rajakumar's 
mother. I want to extend to you a very special aloha. I 
represent the State of Hawaii, and I too had a very courageous 
mother who brought three children to this country to create a 
better life for us. I am the only immigrant serving in the U.S. 
Senate right now. A special aloha to you.
    Now, there is consensus among Democrats and Republicans 
that we have a broken immigration system. When you look at the 
over 11 million undocumented people who are here, we have over 
800,000 DREAMers who are actually signed up, with many, many 
more who could qualify. You have the undocumented DREAMers, 
maybe 250,000 of them. You have all the people stuck waiting 
for their visas and practically in the--well, hundreds of 
thousands.
    There is agreement that our system is broken. If you start 
with the proposition that we're going to need to do some sort 
of solution, come up with some sort of solution to the border 
situation and that is how you were going to start immigration 
reform, then we're not going to get very far. That's one of the 
major reasons that we have not gotten very far since 2013, when 
we actually managed to pass a bipartisan immigration bill that 
I thought was very comprehensive. It wasn't all that it could 
have been, of course, but immigration is screwed up in so many 
different areas that you hardly know where to begin.
    As I'm sitting here listening to the testimony, Dr. 
Legomsky and Mr. Melmed, you both have been working on 
immigration issues for a long time. Ms. Rajakumar has lived it. 
If we were to put the two of you in a room and told you guys to 
come up with areas of agreement for what we can do with our 
broken immigration system, do you think you could do that? Do 
you think you could come up with something that we could work 
on?
    Mr. Melmed. I feel like that might be the toughest question 
that you've sent our way.
    Senator Hirono. Because if you can't, how can you expect us 
to do it?
    Mr. Melmed. Honestly, I think the Professor and I would 
disagree on a number of things. I think we would both be well 
intentioned, and I think we would both be committed to roll up 
our shirt sleeves and get something done. I mean, it's an area 
where I think we would agree these are hard issues to wrestle 
with, and everyone on either side is going to have to make 
compromises.
    Professor Legomsky. I very much agree. I have found Mr. 
Melmed to be an extremely reasonable person, especially given 
his comment that I would be an easy person to deal with. It's 
true that there are many, many areas in which I think we would 
easily find agreement, some in which we might find agreement 
with a little bit of fine tuning, other areas in which I'm sure 
we would disagree. The real question is whether we could come 
up with a plan that we both agree on and that would pass both 
houses of Congress. I think that would be a tougher issue, 
because I know there's a wider diversity of opinion within the 
Senate and as well within the House.
    Senator Hirono. If you were to leave Congress out of it and 
we asked you to come up with something that's reasonable that 
addresses the huge backlog that we have and, you know, all of 
the myriad problems that you have testified to, I would think 
that you would be able to come up with some reasonable areas 
that would enable us to go forward.
    Every time the word immigration comes up, you know, there 
are Members--mainly, I would say, of the Republican party 
because I feel like I can say that since my friend there, 
Senator Cornyn, has castigated the Democrats. Really, there are 
a lot of Republicans who run for the hills. At the same time, I 
know that our Ranking Member really wants to get something done 
in this area, and I--after hearing this and talking with my 
colleague to my left, the Chairman of the Committee, I feel as 
though maybe we can get something done.
    In the area of who should have some sort of preference to 
come into our country, Mr. Melmed, you said that we should 
enable people with certain skill sets, probably in the math and 
science areas. We certainly need workers in those areas. I 
would just like to mention to you and this body, when we worked 
on the comprehensive immigration reform, there was a 
preference, I would say, for people with those kinds of 
backgrounds and experiences to have preference to come into our 
country with visas.
    We have a huge need for domestic workers, for healthcare 
workers, etc. These are not people with science and technology 
backgrounds, and yet with the kind of preference that was in 
the original comprehensive immigration bill, a lot of women 
would have been left out of our immigration system. They would 
have been left out of getting visas on their own. They would've 
had to marry, usually, the guy who had the STEM backgrounds and 
experiences. I'd just like to note that, because we have huge 
needs for all kinds of workers in this country. I would not 
want us to get--to just focus on the people with the so-called 
advanced degrees and those kind of experiences.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for holding this hearing. 
My hope is that we can come up with something. In fact, I 
welcome the two of you to suggest something to us based on the 
testimony that you provided today. Thank you.
    Chair Padilla. Thank you, Senator Hirono. We had, a few 
minutes ago, Senator Booker online to participate, are you 
still there, Senator Booker. If you are, you're next for asking 
questions, and if not, then we will proceed with the second 
round of questions for Members who are with us. I want to come 
back to Ms. Rajakumar who, again, embodies the issue, one of 
the many challenges of our immigration system before us.
    I asked you previously what it would mean if the America's 
Children Act were to pass, but I want to go retrospective a 
little bit. How would your life have been different over the 
last few years if you have--had been able to get a green card 
already? As you answer that, you can share with us also, would 
you describe what would happen in your life and your family if 
you had to leave the United States?
    Ms. Rajakumar. Thank you for your question. I think that 
permanent residency would have benefited me in many ways at 
several points in my life, but specifically over the past few 
years, especially once I turned 18. It would have given me the 
independence that I so badly desired. For example, I really 
wanted to be able to work when I was in college.
    The out-of-state tuition--as I mentioned in my testimony, 
children like me don't qualify for any university or Federal 
financial aid, so the $70,000 of out-of-state tuition that my 
mom took upon herself was an exorbitant burden on my family. 
She jeopardized our only home, and my inability to support 
myself due to my inability to work was just an extra stress on 
the family, not even being able to take care of my personal 
expenses.
    Then, in addition, in 2019, if I had my permanent 
residency, I would have loved to have been able to take off a 
semester or even a year off school after my brother's passing, 
and really mourn and process and heal and be there for my 
mother, and had the confidence that I could have picked up my 
education once again when I felt ready, without any impact on 
my future.
    If I had to leave, first and foremost, after being 
separated from my mother, it means returning to a country that 
I've only ever been to twice before, a place where I have no 
place to live, no means of transportation let alone a license, 
a career, or support system, because apart from my mother, even 
my most immediate extended family reside in the U.S., so it 
would quite literally mean starting over completely from 
scratch.
    My only other option of staying here would be to apply for 
an H-1B application, which would only further my work visa 
sponsorship and maybe me give me a couple more years, but at 
the end of which I will once again face self-deportation. The 
problem, again, with these applications type is they're fully 
luck based. They're pure lottery. It does not take into the 
account that I have--the years that I have spent growing up 
here, and even if I were to be lucky enough to get an H-1B 
application and then be sponsored for my green card through my 
employer, as my mom did over a decade ago, I would once again 
fall toward the back of the line that she was in and the line 
that I aged out of. Neither option is very viable, in my 
opinion.
    Chair Padilla. Very real circumstances. I want to focus 
back on the employment-based immigration system for another 
moment. The number discussed as to numerical limit for 
employment-based green cards is 140,000. We've referenced that 
figure earlier in the hearing. That number does not actually 
represent the number of people who petitioned for an 
employment-based green card. Spouses and children of immigrants 
who accompany an employment-based immigrant actually count 
against the 140,000 cap. I mentioned that in my opening 
statement. Therefore, less than half of the 140,000 employment 
green cards actually go to immigrants selected for employment 
reasons.
    A question for both Mr. Legomsky and Mr. Melmed, can you 
discuss how exempting spouses and children from the cap would 
improve our immigration system?
    Professor Legomsky. It would have the same kind of 
beneficial effect, with slightly different numbers, as some of 
the other bases for increasing the total cap, such as 
increasing the base number, recapturing unused visas, 
eliminating the deduction for immediate relatives, and so on.
    I see a proposal to exempt the dependents from the cap as 
being in that same vein, and I think they would all have the 
same benefits. They would greatly shorten the waiting times for 
people who, after all, are going to be admitted at some point 
anyway. It's just that this would allow them to be admitted 
sooner rather than later, thereby helping the employers who 
need their essential labor right now, rather than forcing them 
to wait in the future.
    Chair Padilla. Mr. Melmed.
    Mr. Melmed. I agree with Professor Legomsky. I don't have 
anything else to add other than--you can see the snowball 
effect, that when you have a 10-year backlog for a green card, 
people will marry, they will have children. Those folks are 
then being added to the line, so a little bit of an explanation 
of why that backlog is increasing even while doing nothing, 
just by nature of families growing.
    Chair Padilla. I think it speaks to both the backlog and 
the effort to address the backlog at the same time, the purpose 
for which this was intended to impact employment and the 
economy. When a majority of the numbers are not the sponsored 
entity but spouse and children of, that's limiting the 
employment and economic contribution side, so it makes sense to 
me. Senator Cornyn.
    Senator Cornyn. Mr. Melmed, I mentioned Senator Tillis's 
bill, Preserving Employment Visas Act, which would recapture 
92,000 employment-based green cards that went unused. I suppose 
the answer to this question is obvious, but if we recaptured 
92,000 employment-based visas, that would reduce the backlog 
accordingly, correct?
    Mr. Melmed. It certainly would, Senator.
    Senator Cornyn. Talk about the impact that that would have, 
what beneficial impact would it have on children who are in Ms. 
Rajakumar's situation, if we're able to recapture those green 
cards. Would it help those who might otherwise age out of the 
system?
    Mr. Melmed. Yes, Senator. You would shorten out the wait 
time for a green card, and it wouldn't, of course, protect 
everyone from aging out. It would certainly reduce the 
likelihood and chances of children turning 21 before the 
parents get a green card.
    Senator Cornyn. Okay. To Senator Durbin's point, lest 
people think that we all disagree on--about everything, I 
mention the bill that he and I partnered on, Healthcare 
Workforce Resilience Act. This would capture 40,000 employment-
based immigrant visas for doctors and nurses. If there's one 
thing I hear from my hospitals in Texas, it's the shortage of 
nurses because of the burnout factor associated with COVID-19 
and the like. Now, hospitals are having to pay incredible 
multiples of what they ordinarily would pay to nurses to 
contract with companies that basically will provide the nurses 
at a given price.
    Mr. Melmed, you stated that more than 2.6 million migrants 
are currently employed as healthcare workers, and as I 
mentioned, about 30 percent of the physicians in Dallas and 
Fort Worth are foreign born. What impact would this have, if 
we're able to recapture those 40,000 employment-based visas for 
doctors and nurses? What impact would that have on the public's 
access to healthcare?
    Mr. Melmed. Thank you for highlighting that fact. It is an 
industry that's, as they say, overrepresented with immigrants, 
and they're critical to that industry. Addressing the green 
card backlog would do two things for them. Some of them are 
already here and, as we've talked about at length, are caught 
in that backlog and therefore unable to change roles, progress 
in their roles, start new enterprises. There's also others in 
the healthcare industry who come straight to the United States 
on a green card. By making additional extra visa numbers 
available, you would actually increase the number of workers, 
immediately. That would have a near-term impact.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Padilla. Thank you. Just as a follow-on to that, Mr. 
Melmed, I want to recognize from your written testimony 
submitted that a recent report by the Niskanen Center indicates 
that, if the Federal Government recaptured 231,000 unused 
employment-based green cards, the policy would add $216 billion 
to GDP over 10 years. If it recaptures 940,000 unused 
employment-based and family preference green cards, the policy 
would add $815 billion to GDP over 10 years. Further makes the 
point. Senator Durbin.
    Chair Durbin. Let me just add a couple things very quickly, 
and I thank the panel for their patience. The Tillis bill, 
Senator Cornyn cleared the hotline on the Democratic side, but 
there were two on your side who objected. They're both Members 
of this Committee. At least one of them has said he doesn't 
want one more immigrant in this country. That's the problem. 
We're going to--if we're going to do anything, we'll have to do 
it the old-fashioned way. We're going to need 60 votes. We're 
going to have to find something to come out of this Committee 
in a bipartisan fashion that has a chance of 60 votes on the 
floor. That may limit our scope, but I hope it doesn't. I'm 
willing to undertake that. I think what we've heard today ought 
to be a compelling reason to start that conversation and see if 
we can----
    Senator Cornyn. I would just say to my friend the Chairman, 
obviously we pass things around here by unanimous consent, but 
when we can't get 100 Senators to agree, then we vote them out 
of Committee and we get them on the floor and get 60 votes for 
cloture and we pass them. It may be necessary, because this--
immigration can be an emotional issue. Frankly, some of the 
positions taken on either side of the aisle, I don't find make 
a lot of sense to me.
    I do think there's a core, certainly, of 60-plus Senators 
who are willing to take up commonsense measures like this and 
to pass them, if we can get a commitment to mark them up in 
Committee and then on the floor. I just want to say publicly 
how much I appreciate your willingness to take up and mark up 
an immigration bill, particularly relating to a situation like 
Ms. Rajakumar finds herself in, such as proposed by the 
Chairman of the Subcommittee. I think this is something we 
ought to be able to find the solution to, and maybe some of 
these other areas as well.
    Chair Durbin. Mr. Chairman, I want to acknowledge to you 
and to salute the panel. You may have seen history in the 
making, who knows. I always say the education of a Senator is a 
daunting task, and a public declaration by a Senator that 
they're actually going to try to legislate is almost historic 
around here. Who knows, this may end well. I want to thank all 
three of you, particularly Ms. Rajakumar. Your story is so 
compelling. It really calls on all of us to get up and do 
something, so I hope we can. Thank you for being here today, 
all of you.
    Chair Padilla. Thank you, Senator Durbin. Before moving to 
a close this hearing, I'm going to take the Chair's privilege 
and ask just one more question that I think is important to 
raise today. It's going to be for Professor Legomsky. In 1996, 
Congress passed the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant 
Responsibility Act. With that measure, Congress attempted to 
create disincentives to come and remain unlawfully in the 
United States. An individual who remains unlawfully present in 
the United States for more than 180 days but less than a year 
is barred from admission for 3 years. Those that are unlawfully 
present for more than a year are barred for 10 years. The most 
extreme case, if one re-enters after having been removed, after 
being unlawfully present for more than a year, they're 
permanently barred. Exceptions to these bars remain very 
limited.
    Professor, in your testimony, you advocated the repeal of 
the 3-year, 10-year, and permanent bars. You said they create a 
procedural Catch-22, whereby someone who otherwise qualifies 
for legal permanent resident status has no place to apply for 
it. Can you elaborate on that for a minute?
    Professor Legomsky. Yes, and I apologize in advance that 
this explanation will be a little bit on the nerdy side, but I 
don't think I can avoid it. When a person has been unlawfully--
if a person is currently unlawfully present, then that, of 
course, alone is already a ground for removal. As you have 
indicated, these 3, 10 bars apply to people who have been 
unlawfully present at some point in the past. My own view is 
that they are inherently disproportionate to the nature of the 
offense, even in general, given the desperation that drives 
people to enter or to remain in the U.S. without status. The 
particular procedural catch-22 that you referenced is as 
follows.
    Suppose you are a person who meets all of the substantive 
eligibility requirements that Congress has set for becoming an 
LPR. That is, you fall within one of the family categories, you 
do not fall within any of the inadmissibility grounds, and 
you've waited your turn in line, and now your priority date has 
become current. You're at the front of the line ready to be 
admitted. There is a point in your life at which you have been 
unlawfully present.
    You can't simply go to the U.S. consulate and get a visa, 
which is the traditional route for becoming an LPR, because the 
moment you step outside the country, you will now have 
departed, and the unlawful presence plus the departure together 
make you inadmissible for, in almost all cases, 10 years. The 
visa will be denied on that ground alone. That would be okay, 
if you could instead simply do the paperwork here in the United 
States through the process known as adjustment of status. With 
rare exceptions, you can't do that--I shouldn't say rare. With 
an exception of only a minority, you can't do that either.
    For one thing, you are statutorily ineligible for 
adjustment if you have not been admitted or paroled. If you 
entered the country without inspection, that alone would rule 
you out. Even if you entered the country legally on a 
nonimmigrant visa but then overstayed and became unlawfully 
present in that way, okay, you can overcome the admitted or 
paroled bar, but then you run into another obstacle. Because to 
be eligible for adjustment, you also have to show that you have 
been continuously, lawfully present--pardon me--you have 
maintained continuous, lawful status in the United States since 
your entry, which you would not have done had you overstayed.
    To be fair, I should acknowledge an important exception. 
That is that immediate relatives are exempt from the 
requirement of lawful continuous status. Unless you are an 
immediate relative who became undocumented only by reason of 
having overstayed, as opposed to entering without inspection, 
then you're not within any of the exceptions, and despite 
having met all of the substantive eligibility requirements for 
admission, you can't apply for it outside the country and you 
can't apply for it inside the country. That's why I describe it 
as a procedural catch-22.
    Chair Padilla. Thank you very much. Enlightening for those 
who are unfamiliar with that dynamic, and not very for the 
many, many who have personally or know someone who is caught in 
that catch-22.
    Before we conclude, I want to move to enter a number of 
statements into the record, including statements from Asian 
Americans Advancing Justice, Americans For Prosperity, and the 
LIBRE Initiative, American Families United, the Center for 
Migration Studies of New York, CHIRLA, FWD.us, Improve the 
Dream, NACS, the National Immigration Law Center, and the 
National Venture Capital Association. Without objection, those 
statements will be included, and the record for the hearing 
will close 1 week from today.
    As this hearing concludes, I do want to thank my fellow 
Subcommittee Members and especially our witnesses for joining 
us. I'm glad to see that we might've taken some steps forward 
and made progress today. That's why we held this hearing, to 
try to find pathways for progress and to improve this outdated 
and overly complex immigration system. I look forward to 
working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to move 
the America's Children Act and other important legislation 
forward in Judiciary Committee.
    To just sort of capture the spirit of the last couple of 
hours, we've heard overwhelming evidence that our immigration 
system is broken, outdated. Visa limits are hurting our economy 
and endangering workers. Enormous backlogs are separating 
families, sometimes for years, sometimes for decades. Arbitrary 
cutoffs are forcing children who grew up in this country to 
leave their families and their only home.
    We have a responsibility to fix all of this. Just think 
about all the lives and stories reflected in the chart here 
behind me. If you're a U.S. citizen with a sister in Mexico, 
you're supposed to wait 224 years before she receives her visa. 
That's the impact of the current backlogs. If your married 
child is in the Philippines, he and his partner face a wait 
time of 155 years. If you're an employer trying to hire a 
Chinese worker with 2 years of training, your employee should 
expect to wait 44 years before receiving a green card. Indian 
workers with a bachelor's degree are expected to wait a 
staggering 90 years.
    These aren't wait times. They are de facto bans. It's past 
time to make our immigration laws reflect reality, as well as 
the current needs of our Nation. When we do so, that reform 
will benefit everyone by reuniting immigrant families who can 
help communities thrive. By inviting immigrants to join our 
workforce, we can grow our economy for all. By welcoming 
immigrants from countries with lower levels of immigration 
through our diversity visa program, we contribute to the rich, 
cultural fabric of the United States. By recapturing unused 
visas, we can reduce employment and family based immigration 
backlogs and add billions of dollars to our GDP, reunite 
families and strengthen our economy at the same time. By making 
sure any bill coming out of the America COMPETES/USICA 
Conference includes immigration provisions, we can help build 
our domestic STEM workforce and encourage startup companies to 
establish roots here.
    These reforms are especially important at a moment when our 
workforce is aging and demand for visas is higher than ever. 
America has a proud history of welcoming immigrants, and now is 
the moment to recommit ourselves to that task. As Mr. Melmed 
said in his testimony, by doing nothing, the United States is 
going backward.
    Although it's not a topic of this hearing, I want to 
conclude by taking a step back and acknowledging a few recent 
events. Right now, the people of Ukraine are enduring a brutal 
and unprovoked assault by Russian forces. More than 2 1/2 
million people have already been forced to flee their homes, 
and that number seems to be growing by the day, creating the 
largest European refugee crisis since World War II. America 
must be a leader by example and protect Ukrainians who have 
been driven away from their homes, just as we should be doing 
for the Afghan evacuees who made it to our soil, as well as 
Afghan refugees abroad.
    At the same time, I urge the Biden administration and my 
colleagues to remember the refugees who are waiting at our 
border, kept out by the cruel and unnecessary Title 42 policy. 
The administration made the correct decision to end Title 42 
for unaccompanied children, recognizing that there is no public 
health need to deny the rights of lawful asylum seekers. It's 
past time to end this draconian policy for all the individuals 
and families who come here to escape terrible persecution.
    Colleagues, again, I ask that we recommit ourselves to 
reflecting our values as a nation of immigrants. Thank you all 
for your participation again here today, and with that, today's 
hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:55 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]

                            A P P E N D I X

Miscellaneous submissions:

 American Families United.........................................    64

 Americans for Prosperity & The LIBRE Initiative..................    86

 Asian Americans Advancing Justice (AAJC), statement..............    87

 Canaba, Ramon, Jr., statement....................................    84

 Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights (CHIRLA)...................   112

 Delich, Mark, FWD.us statement, March 15, 2022...................   116

 National Association of Convenience Stores (NACS)................   132

 National Association of Manufacturers............................   135

 National Immigration Forum.......................................   138

 National Immigration Law Center..................................   143

 Nation's Venture Capital Investors (NVCA)........................   148

 Poll from Survey USA.............................................    85

 Removing Barriers to Legal Migration to Strengthen our 
    Communities and Economy.......................................   104

 UnidosUS.........................................................   151

 Improve The Dream, Collection of Stories from Members

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