[Senate Hearing 117-883]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]







                                                        S. Hrg. 117-883

                     FEDERAL SUPPORT FOR PREVENTING
                     AND RESPONDING TO CARJACKINGS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             MARCH 1, 2022

                               __________

                          Serial No. J-117-53

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary









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                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                   RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont            CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa, Ranking 
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California             Member
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             JOHN CORNYN, Texas
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      TED CRUZ, Texas
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              BEN SASSE, Nebraska
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
ALEX PADILLA, California             TOM COTTON, Arkansas
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
                                     THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                     MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
             Joseph Zogby, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
      Kolan L. Davis, Republican Chief Counsel and Staff Director
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page

Durbin, Hon. Richard J...........................................     1
Grassley, Hon. Charles E.........................................     3
Cornyn, Hon. John................................................     5

                               WITNESSES

Bozzella, John...................................................    14
    Prepared statement...........................................    42
    Responses to written questions...............................    89
Bryant, Vaughn...................................................    10
    Prepared statement...........................................    47
    Responses to written questions...............................    93
Dart, Thomas.....................................................     7
    Prepared statement...........................................    64
    Responses to written questions...............................    94
Garcia, Edgardo..................................................    12
    Prepared statement...........................................    55
    Responses to written questions...............................   100
Glawe, David J...................................................    16
    Prepared statement...........................................    67
    Questions submitted with no response returned................   105
Herdman, Justin E................................................     8
    Prepared statement...........................................    85
    Responses to written questions...............................   116

                                APPENDIX

Items submitted for the record...................................    41

 
                     FEDERAL SUPPORT FOR PREVENTING 
                     AND RESPONDING TO CARJACKINGS 

                              ----------                              


                         TUESDAY, MARCH 1, 2022

                              United States Senate,
                                Committee on the Judiciary,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice at 10:05 a.m., in 
Room 226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J. 
Durbin, Chair of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Whitehouse, 
Klobuchar, Coons, Blumenthal, Ossoff, Grassley, Cornyn, Cruz, 
Hawley, Tillis, and Blackburn.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,

           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

    Chair Durbin. This meeting of the Senate Judiciary 
Committee will come to order, and I thank the witnesses for 
attending. A couple things I'd like to mention at the outset. 
First, we're all grieving with Senator Dianne Feinstein, who 
lost her husband, Richard Blum, Sunday night to cancer. It was 
a heroic battle for many years.
    He was an extraordinary person, certainly a success in 
business but took his wealth and used it to help others in a 
dramatic fashion. He was particularly smitten with the 
Himalayas and Dalai Lama, and he created the Himalayan 
Foundation to try to spare some of the people who live in that 
region the worst aspects of poverty. Richard was an exceptional 
man, and I know that Senator Feinstein is sad, as she should 
be, but we are happy to have known him and to have seen his 
vision of the world.
    Secondly, as everyone knows, I'm sure, President Biden 
announced his Supreme Court nominee last Friday. We submitted 
the Senate Judiciary Committee questionnaire to her and 
received the response last night. It's a lengthy questionnaire. 
It includes reference to 578 opinions that she handed down on 
the DC District Court. It's an ample display of her 
jurisprudence and her philosophy, which all Members now have a 
chance to look at, again, in detail; or at again, in detail. We 
last considered her less than a year ago in this same Committee 
for the circuit court position.
    Having said that, I'll read the opening statement for this 
hearing and thank all the witnesses for being here. Today our 
Committee is going to consider how our Federal Government can 
help prevent and respond to the surge in carjacking. Carjacking 
is a scourge. To be sitting in your car with your family and 
have a person stick a gun in your face and force you to get out 
so they can steal the car--that's a situation no American 
should have to face.
    Sheriff Tom Dart is here from Cook County. He's read the 
stories that I read regularly. One time, a young man, very 
young, with a gun got in a car and forced the driver out and 
drove away with the car. He was stopped. He was 11 years old. 
Eleven. This sort of thing is incredible.
    Experts have pointed to a number of factors that may have 
contributed to the increase in violent crime, including 
economic and social disruption by the pandemic and a large 
increase in firearm sales, but there is no evidence, none, that 
an increase in carjacking is due to any specific administration 
policy or due to bipartisan criminal justice reform legislation 
signed into law by President Donald Trump. In fact, of 9,000 
individuals released to home confinement under the CARES Act, 
only 8 have been returned to prison for committing a new crime, 
and only 1 for committing a violent crime.
    Let me be clear. The increase in carjacking started during 
the last administration and continues in this administration. 
It is impacting communities led by both Democratic and 
Republican elected officials. It is not a red problem, not a 
blue problem. It's an American problem.
    I've reached across the aisle to work on bipartisan 
solutions to protect the American people, like the Violence 
Against Women Act reauthorization, and I hope we can do that 
again on this issue. It's important to note that preventing and 
prosecuting violent crime is primarily a State and local 
responsibility, but there is an important role for the Federal 
Government.
    First, we need more information on the prevalence of this 
crime. We can't solve the problem if we don't understand it. 
That's why I've called for the FBI and Justice Department to 
begin nationwide data collection on carjacking. Last December, 
I held a Judiciary Committee field hearing in Chicago on 
preventing violent crime. I heard from U.S. Attorney John 
Lausch, who is a holdover from the previous administration, 
about some of the challenges in bringing Federal carjacking 
cases.
    Senator Grassley and I are working on bipartisan 
legislation to address it, but as we've learned in the--as in 
the so-called war on drugs, you can't incarcerate your way out 
of the problem. One important step may involve the auto 
industry, to collaborate with law enforcement on steps that 
will deter carjackers. Sheriff Dart brought this to my 
attention. I thank you, Tom. You've always been looking ahead 
to issues, and this was one that you spoke out on.
    In January, I wrote to the Department of Transportation and 
the auto industry to urge the development of uniform standards 
for swift law enforcement access to vehicle location tracking 
data in the crucial minutes after a carjacking. If they are 
more likely to get caught, and if there are higher barriers to 
selling a carjacked vehicle, potential carjackers may think 
twice. We also need to ensure that local law enforcement has 
the resources to fight carjacking.
    The American Rescue Plan, which Congress passed last year, 
included $350 billion to State and local governments. We made 
sure that part of the funding went to law enforcement and 
investing in community violence intervention programs. 
President Biden's budget request called for significant funding 
increasing for law enforcement groups like Byrne JAG and COPS 
grants. We must work together across the aisle to get the 
appropriations bill, still pending for this Fiscal Year which 
we're in, across the finish line. I hope we can do that soon, 
matter of days.
    We also need to ensure the President's well-qualified U.S. 
attorney and U.S. Marshal nominees are swiftly confirmed. Hard 
to imagine we have one Senator who's holding up U.S. attorneys 
and U.S. Marshals, on a random basis, because of some grievance 
he has over receiving a letter from the Department of Justice. 
That isn't fair to law enforcement, and it isn't fair to the 
communities that they would represent.
    We need to get to the root causes that would drive a young 
person to engage in carjacking, preventing trauma and helping 
kids deal with trauma they've experienced, improving social 
services, diverting children from criminal justice systems to 
programs that give them a chance. These kids, as bad as the 
stories are, came to the earth in the usual way, and their 
lives took a dramatic turn for the worse, and maybe through no 
fault of their own. I'm glad Vaughn Bryant from the 
Metropolitan Family Services in Chicago is here. It's a great 
organization. He's going to tell us about their efforts.
    Today, we'll hear from a distinguished panel of witnesses 
who will talk about Government, industry, and community leaders 
as part of the solution. I turn now to my friend and Ranking 
Member, Chuck Grassley.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES E. GRASSLEY,

             A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF IOWA

    Senator Grassley. The first thing I would say, in regard to 
what Senator Durbin said about Senator Feinstein's loss of her 
husband, I would associate myself with his remarks, but I also 
personally know, in my working with her when she was Ranking 
Member of this Committee and I was Chairman, and also for even 
longer years of working with her as Co-Chairs of the Drug 
Caucus, that this has been a burden for her in recent years, 
and we can't help but have sympathy for what she's going 
through right now and what she has gone through. And I think 
it's appropriate, what you said.
    Then, in regard to Judge Jackson, I would like to speak to 
Republicans about that. One little aspect of that is that I 
don't know how many of our 50 Republicans want to have a 
meeting with Judge Jackson. I'm going to have my meeting with 
her, I think, on Wednesday, but other people, either through me 
or through your own actions, make sure that if you want to have 
a meeting, you say that early, so we don't get criticized for 
stringing people along just to stretch out what might be seen 
as not moving quickly enough. I think you ought to let the 
White House know if you want to meet with them.
    I thank you, Chairman Durbin, for holding this hearing. 
This is an important and serious topic, and Congress has an 
important role to play in combating the rise of violent crimes, 
and carjacking is just one of them. People often confuse 
carjacking with motor vehicle theft, but carjacking is much 
more dangerous. We're not talking about having a car stolen 
from some parking lot. We're talking about when someone uses 
violence or the threat of violence to take control of a car 
from someone else.
    For example, cars are being taken from parents at gunpoint 
while their child's still in the vehicle. A member of the 
Illinois legislature was in a car with her husband when masked 
men with guns ordered them out of their car. She begged them 
not to shoot her and her husband, and their lives were only 
saved when her husband returned fire.
    These carjackers form what are referred to as ``booster 
crews'' that have strategically figured out where to commit 
carjackings, how many to commit to the project so that they can 
overwhelm the local police, and which kind of cars to target. 
Highjacked cars are then being used by gangs and criminal 
organizations. They use fake license plates to disguise the 
cars and then use them as getaway cars to commit other crimes. 
Carjackings directly feed the nationwide surge in other crimes.
    The increase in this violent crime of carjacking is part of 
a very disturbing trend nationwide. Murders rose 30 percent in 
2020, and early data suggests murders rose again by at least 
10--10 percent in 2021. Of course, that's thousands of lives 
needlessly lost. Attacks on law enforcement are up. Police 
officers recorded the highest number of on-duty deaths in 2021 
since 1995, including the 9/11 attacks. Law enforcement groups 
nationwide are struggling to find high-quality local recruits 
to join their force.
    It's time to start looking for solutions to different parts 
of this crime wave. Operation Legend was extremely successful 
by providing Federal manpower in overwhelmed cities. Some, like 
Mayor Lightfoot of Chicago, have requested similar Federal 
resources. Productive--or proactive policing--I guess that's 
also productive policing, but proactive policing and increasing 
the number of available law enforcement officers are a part of 
the solution and an important part, but not the only part. 
Expanding the toolkit of Federal prosecutors could also be an 
effective resource and an effective response.
    I'm looking at expanding the reach of the Federal 
carjacking statute. Progressive prosecutors at the State level 
have told criminals that they won't get in trouble with certain 
crimes. Well, that won't fly with the Federal Government. This 
hearing on carjacking is a good start, and I look forward to 
more hearings on violent crime issues, such as violent crime 
against law enforcement and homicide spike. I look forward to 
focusing, as a body, on different areas of violent crime and 
how we in Congress can solve it.
    It is also critical that we exercise our important 
oversight authority of Federal agencies involved in monitoring 
and in reducing crime. Obviously, that's the Justice 
Department, for one. Congress needs to know if what the DOJ is 
currently doing is making enough of an impact on crime and 
safety. We also need oversight so that we can redirect 
misfocused energy and resources. Spending Government resources 
on the so-called iron pipeline, ghost guns, and lawful firearm 
dealers isn't going to help bring crime statistics down. These 
liberal priorities affect a tiny fraction of overall crimes. We 
should be pursuing policies that will actually make an impact 
on the massive crime surge. Thanks to our witnesses for being 
here today and the hard work you've put into your testimony.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Grassley. We have six 
exceptional witnesses. Let me give you a brief introduction on 
the witnesses. The first one is Tom Dart, sheriff of Cook 
County, the elected sheriff of Cook County. He's served in that 
capacity since 2006. Prior to that, he was an assistant state's 
attorney in Cook County and a member of the Illinois House of 
Representatives. Earned his undergraduate degree from 
Providence College, his law degree from Loyola University of 
Chicago.
    Justin Herdman is the former U.S. attorney for the Northern 
District of Ohio; served as vice-chair of the Attorney 
General's Advisory Committee; currently a partner at Jones Day; 
specializes in Government investigation, criminal and civil 
litigation; currently serves as Judge Advocate in the U.S. Air 
Force Reserve; a graduate of Ohio University, University of 
Glasgow, and Harvard Law School.
    Vaughn Bryant, executive director of the Metropolitan Peace 
Initiatives in Chicago, part of the Metropolitan Family 
Services. At MPI, he oversees a team working with neighborhood 
and citywide organizations to coordinate and sustain 
comprehensive services to heal communities that have 
experienced gun violence. Vaughn Bryant has received his B.A. 
from Stanford, master's from Northwestern, previously served in 
managerial positions in the NFL, Chicago Public Schools, and 
Chicago Park District.
    I understand--I understand Senator Cornyn would like to 
introduce our next witness, Chief Eddie Garcia of the Dallas 
Police Department.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN CORNYN,

             A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

    Senator Cornyn. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I'm 
happy to welcome Chief Garcia here to the Senate. We were 
together just last week, talking about the RIGHT Care 
initiative there in Dallas, where mental health professionals 
deploy with police officers and social workers to try to de-
escalate people with mental health crises and divert them to 
appropriate treatment, as opposed to just simply putting them 
in jail.
    Chief Garcia spent 29 years as a patrol sergeant, night 
detective, and homicide investigator in San Jose before being 
appointed, in February of 2021 as the 30th police chief of the 
Dallas Police Department. He studied administration of justice 
at De Anza College in Cupertino, California and earned a 
bachelor of science degree in criminal justice management from 
Union Institute & University. In his three decades of serving 
and protecting our streets, Chief Garcia has built a reputation 
as one who leads by example. He considers himself a blue-collar 
chief who regularly patrols with new recruits and young 
officers.
    Since his appointment, Chief Garcia has focused on reducing 
violent crime in Dallas and has had measurable success. Under 
his leadership, Dallas police have strategically engaged 
specific high-crime communities, focusing on the most serious 
and violent offenses. As a result, Dallas has recently seen a 
significant reduction in crime, in both high-crime areas and in 
the city overall. Since May 2021, the city's murder rate has 
dropped by 27 percent, aggravated assaults by 6 and a half 
percent, robberies by 28 percent, and overall violent crime by 
13 percent.
    These statistics speak for themselves. While other cities 
are experiencing spiking crime waves that they've not seen in 
30 years, I'm proud of the good work that the Chief has done in 
the Dallas Police Department, along with the mayor and the city 
council there in Dallas, to promote smart policing and public 
safety.
    Sometimes we refer to the States as the laboratories of 
democracy. That's what Justice Brandeis referred to. But I 
think the cities can be, also, laboratories where we can 
demonstrate what works and what doesn't work, and I think 
there's a lot to learn, a lot the rest of the country could 
learn from the leadership of Chief Garcia and the Dallas 
police. While some other major cities have succumbed to the 
siren calls of defunding the police, Dallas took the opposite 
approach, increasing funding and support for the department and 
police officers.
    Before I turn the floor over to him, I want to thank you, 
Chief, for your presence here today, as well as all of the 
other witnesses. I want to thank you for your service and your 
testimony. State and Federal collaboration is vital as we seek 
to address the issues of violent crime in America, and we could 
not do our jobs without our State law enforcement officers' 
service to our communities.
    My staff reminds me that one of the components that we've 
used at the Federal level, through the Attorney General's 
Office, is the Project Safe Neighborhoods effort to get felons 
in possession off the streets and to prosecute violent gun 
crime, which I know has been--has been contributing to some of 
the success in Dallas. Thank you for being here, and thanks to 
all of the witnesses for being here, and for your contribution 
for our efforts to try to address these serious public safety 
concerns. Thanks.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Cornyn. John Bozzella is the 
president and CEO of the Alliance for Automotive Innovation; 
previously served as president and CEO of the Association of 
Global Automakers after holding senior positions with Ford and 
Chrysler. Prior to joining the automotive industry, Mr. 
Bozzella served as New York City's director of State 
Legislative Affairs, began his career in public policy as 
director of legislative and political action for the United 
Federation of Teachers, and a graduate of Cornell University.
    David Glawe is president and CEO of the National Insurance 
Crime Bureau. He previously served as Under Secretary of 
Homeland Security for Intelligence and Analysis and, before 
that, as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director 
for Homeland Security at the White House. Served as special 
agent with the FBI, including as a supervisory special agent in 
the Counterterrorism Division, before that as an agent with the 
U.S. Postal Inspection Service and as a police officer in 
Houston, Texas, and Aurora, Colorado.
    I thank the witnesses for coming here today. The mechanics 
are pretty straightforward in this Committee. We'll swear in 
the witnesses. Each has 5 minutes for an opening statement. 
Then each Senator will have 5 minutes to ask questions. So, 
first let me ask the witnesses to please stand and raise their 
right hand.
    [Witnesses are sworn in.]
    Chair Durbin. Let the record reflect that the witnesses 
have answered in the affirmative, so we're going to let them 
proceed. Our first witness is Sheriff Tom Dart.

               STATEMENT OF THOMAS DART, SHERIFF,

        COOK COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE, CHICAGO, ILLINOIS

    Sheriff Dart. Thank you so much, Senator. Good morning, 
Senator and Ranking Member Grassley and Members of the 
Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I 
firmly believe there are tangible ways local law enforcement, 
the Federal Government, and the auto industry can work together 
toward real solutions that will stop the disturbing rise in 
carjackings.
    I am the sheriff of Cook County, Illinois, which includes 
Chicago and more than 130 suburbs. In our community, 
carjackings have increased at an alarming rate. In Chicago, 
they tripled over the last decade. Just last year, there were 
more than 2,000 carjackings, or about one every 4 hours.
    This isn't just a Chicago issue. New York City has 
quadrupled in the last 3 years, Philadelphia incidents are up 
nearly 300 percent since 2015, and here in the District of 
Columbia, carjackings have almost tripled in the past 2 years. 
Anyone in a car is a potential victim: you, your spouse, your 
children, your parents, and, yes, even lawmakers. As Senator 
Grassley mentioned earlier, a State senator from Illinois, 
Kimberly Lightford--she was carjacked. Pennsylvania 
Congresswoman Mary Gay Scanlon was carjacked, as well.
    The crime can happen at any time. One victim in Chicago 
told us that she was performing the common winter chore of 
brushing snow off her Toyota Camry when two men approached, 
pointed a gun, and demanded her keys. In another case, a 
retired Air Force physician stopped at a gas station in a 
Chicago suburb. A carjacker grabbed her car door, put a gun to 
her head, and demanded she get out. A struggle ensued. The 
offender violently pulled her from the driver's seat, threw her 
to the ground, and kicked her multiple times before speeding 
off in broad daylight.
    These two women are among the more than 4,000 victims in 
Cook County since 2020. I can give you that number because our 
office has catalogued and analyzed nearly 4,000 carjacking 
events since 2020. We've done a deep dive in the methods and 
tactics of the offenders. With the valuable assistance of the 
Chicago Police Department and the FBI, we have begun to 
understand the motivation behind this crime and ways to address 
it, but regardless of whether the motive is for assisting in 
committing another crime or for resale, one thing is certain. 
The key to successful apprehension and prosecution is 
recovering the vehicles quickly.
    One of the most effective tools available is manufacturer-
installed geolocation equipment, commonly available in most 
vehicles built after 2015, but while some manufacturers are 
very helpful, others can be reluctant or unwilling to track 
carjacked vehicles. It is often not clear who to call to get 
information, and some auto companies have limited hours. 
Sometimes, staff are poorly trained and demand we obtain 
warrants which are clearly not relevant. In egregious cases, 
the companies require customers to pay an upcharge to initiate 
the tracking of the car which was just stolen from them.
    The Air Force veteran, I mentioned earlier, tried to get 
her vehicle tracked through the manufacturer, with no success. 
After my office got involved, it still took nearly 2 days to 
get the vehicle's location, and while it was at large, the car 
was used in at least two other crimes, including another 
carjacking at gunpoint. We believe auto manufacturers can be a 
great ally in this battle. They already innovated the 
technologies needed to track the stolen vehicles.Now, they must 
lead the way in developing a system to communicate, in a 
consistent way, with responding law enforcement.
    Just a few weeks ago, we had a great example of how the 
system should work. After a Chicago woman was carjacked, she 
initially had problems getting it tracked. Our office was able 
to coordinate a call with her and Toyota, for her to grant our 
office permission to track the vehicle--after having to pay $8, 
though. Once the location was established, we were able to 
quickly and safely recover her vehicle.
    In December, I wrote to major auto manufacturers, to raise 
this issue and suggest a single, 24/7 phone number police could 
use to get tracking data quickly and legally on any hijacked 
vehicle. We've had some promising discussions since then. 
General Motors' OnStar has been very receptive to our requests 
and initiated the development of a streamlined communication 
system. Also, we've had substantive conversations with the 
Alliance for Automotive Innovation, as well. Though talks are 
ongoing, the Alliance has indicated willingness to work toward 
sustainable solutions, but time is of the essence.
    This is a crime that has real economic impact. Central 
business districts in major cities across the Nation are 
experiencing a slower-than-expected post-pandemic rebound, in 
part because diners and shoppers are afraid because of being 
carjacked. This is certainly the case in Chicago. Chairman 
Durbin understands this. He is urging the U.S. Department of 
Transportation to work with the auto industry to increase 
police access to tracking data, and he's encouraged the FBI and 
Bureau of Justice Statistics to improve data collection.
    Make no mistake. This is a violent crime, done primarily to 
obtain an anonymous car to commit more acts of violence, 
frequently shootings. Carjackings are reasonably easy to commit 
and difficult for us to prosecute. I'm a former prosecutor, and 
I can tell you firsthand, the quicker we can get that vehicle, 
the less chance it will be used in another crime, and the more 
likely we'll be able to convict somebody. The longer it takes, 
the less likely we can convict anyone. Thank you so much for 
the opportunity to speak to you today.
    [The prepared statement of Sheriff Dart appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Sheriff. Mr. Herdman.

                STATEMENT OF JUSTIN E. HERDMAN,

             FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, CLEVELAND, OHIO

    Mr. Herdman. Good morning. Thank you, Senator Durbin. Thank 
you, Senator Grassley. Thanks to the Committee for the 
opportunity to speak to you today on the vital issue of Federal 
responses to carjacking.
    My name is Justin Herdman, and from 2017 until early 2021, 
I served as the United States attorney for the Northern 
District of Ohio, which is comprised of Ohio's 40 northernmost 
counties, including my hometown of Cleveland. Unfortunately, 
violent crime has increasingly touched all types of communities 
over the past several years, but it is in our major cities 
where the most profound violent crime problems continue to 
plague our Nation. While many of these cases are best 
prosecuted on the local level, there are certain categories of 
violent crime that call for a heightened Federal prosecutorial 
response. Within the past several years, I have seen a greater 
need for expansion of Federal law enforcement activity and 
overall will to prosecute carjacking.
    Let me first offer a view from my seat as a U.S. attorney 
in Cleveland. The city has witnessed a recent surge in all 
violent crime, but carjacking increased at a particularly 
alarming rate. Based on publicly available data, Cleveland 
experienced 285 carjackings in 2019. This number shot up to 355 
in 2020, an increase of 25 percent, and went up to 433 
carjackings in 2021. Thus, the overall number of carjackings in 
2021 was over 50 percent higher than it was just 2 years 
before, with a carjacking being committed, on average, more 
than once per day.
    Obviously, behind each of these frightening numbers are 
victims who are forever changed by the crimes committed against 
them. In the summer of 2020, I highlighted one such case when 
we announced the expansion of Operation Legend, a comprehensive 
Federal law enforcement initiative, to the city of Cleveland.
    On the night of May 25th, 2020, 17-year-old Eric Hakizimana 
was returning home from soccer practice when he was senselessly 
murdered in a carjacking. Eric's family had fled to Cleveland 
as refugees from war-torn Congo, only to see their son murdered 
during a violent takeover of his vehicle. On New Year's Eve 
this past year, 25-year-old Shane Bartek, an off-duty Cleveland 
policeman, was shot and killed during a carjacking. The 
individuals arrested in that incident had numerous prior 
arrests for vehicle-related thefts and robberies.
    These two tragic cases are among hundreds of other 
carjacking offenses committed in Cleveland that, while not 
always involving injury or death, still pose outsized risks to 
the public. The reason for this is fairly obvious. Any robbery 
involves the use of force and, therefore, is a serious violent 
crime, but here, the object that is being taken is itself in 
motion and poses a variety of dangers. This fact requires the 
perpetrator to act quickly, with an overwhelming display or use 
of force, in order to obtain compliance from the victim. Based 
on my experience as U.S. attorney, I believe that the 
likelihood of force actually being used in a carjacking is much 
higher than in other violent crimes, which makes this a 
particularly pernicious form of offense.
    Carjacking is also a facilitation crime. While there are 
clearly many examples of the robbery being committed for the 
purposes of, quote, ``joyriding,'' in my experience, the 
vehicle that has been carjacked is most likely to be used for 
committing additional violent crimes, most notably premeditated 
shootings or aggravated robberies. This fact also means that 
carjackings tend to be committed in serial fashion, usually by 
more than one person.
    One last general point that I would offer for the Committee 
involves the presence of juvenile offenders in committing these 
crimes. For instance, in March of last year, a group of 10 
teenagers, ranging in age from 14 to 19 years old, were 
arrested for a series of 30 armed carjackings and other violent 
robberies in Cleveland.
    Now, for purposes of fashioning effective Federal responses 
to the crime of carjacking, I offer the following specific 
suggestions. First, the addition of a conspiracy offense to the 
Federal carjacking statute, which is Title 18, Section 2119. 
This would allow for an appropriate expansion of Federal 
prosecutions aimed at preventing carjackings before they occur. 
Second, prioritizing carjacking responses in the current 
planning for violent crime reduction by Federal investigative 
agencies, especially in violent crime task forces that are 
staffed by Federal, State, and local law enforcement. I would 
also encourage a similar planning process to be undertaken 
nationwide by the Department of Justice, in order to identify 
assets and resources that could be deployed to assist cities 
dealing with a rash of carjackings.
    Third, and related to what I've just said, I think it'd be 
very important to develop a nationwide best practices for 
carjacking response investigations that could be provided to 
every big-city patrol officer and detective. Fourth, the issue 
of juvenile offenders is one that does not necessarily weigh in 
favor of expanded Federal prosecution. The prosecution of 
juvenile carjacking offenders will continue to be handled 
primarily by State and local authorities. But since many of the 
most violent juvenile offenders will have had prior contact 
with the criminal justice system, there is a place for smart 
screening of the highest-risk offenders, ensuring there are 
robust reentry and rehabilitation services available to those 
youth.
    Once again, I thank the Committee for an opportunity to 
address this critical issue of national importance. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Herdman appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Herdman. Mr. Bryant.

             STATEMENT OF VAUGHN BRYANT, EXECUTIVE

           DIRECTOR, METROPOLITAN PEACE INITIATIVES,

        METROPOLITAN FAMILY SERVICES, CHICAGO, ILLINOIS

    Mr. Bryant. Good morning, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Grassley, and Members of the Committee. My name is Vaughn 
Bryant. I am the executive director of Metropolitan Peace 
Initiatives, a division of Metropolitan Family Services. 
Metropolitan Family Services has helped Chicago families meet 
the hardships of poverty, epidemics, natural disasters, world 
wars, and economic downturns since 1857. In 2016, we formed 
Metropolitan Peace Initiatives to put power in communities' 
hands and engage residents to participate in the solution of 
gun violence.
    I came to this work having grown up in Detroit, Michigan. I 
am the son of a Detroit police officer. I am the product of the 
Police Athletic League, where police officers coached me in 
football and basketball and baseball before I became a fourth-
round draft pick in the NFL draft in 1994. I have spent half my 
professional career in service to communities and working in 
partnership with law enforcement. It is my privilege to 
introduce to you the Metropolitan Peace Initiatives, which 
coordinates, supports, and sustains a cross-agency community 
safety infrastructure, made up of local, community-based 
organizations rooted in the most violent areas in the city of 
Chicago.
    For the first time in Chicago's history, organizations with 
proven violence prevention outcomes across the city's 
geographies have come together to build a necessary community 
infrastructure dedicated to preventing violence and delivering 
a comprehensive set of services to heal communities at highest 
risk for violence and provide opportunities for individual 
rehabilitation. Chicago's fast-escalating violence in 2016, 
which saw 762 individuals killed by guns and 400--4,580 
individuals shot, an increase of 58 and 47 percent, 
respectively, along with the unrest related to the murder of 
Laquan McDonald, demanded a new approach. This led a group of 
local leaders to establish Communities Partnering for Peace, 
which we call CP4P.
    CP4P began in partnership with eight community-based 
organizations to reduce violence in nine of the most violent 
neighborhoods in Chicago. Today, it includes 14 partner 
agencies active in 28 Chicago communities. The program targets 
individuals at most risk for perpetuating violence or being a 
victim and provides intervention by trained street outreach 
workers, who engage individuals with high likelihood to be 
shot--to shoot or be shot and create peace and non-aggression 
agreements, provide case management services to address any 
social determinants of health, community-based events that we 
hold three times a week in the summertime, once a month, fall, 
winter, spring.
    We also administered a Metropolitan Peace Academy, a 
multidisciplinary platform that provides trainings to 
professionalize and strengthen the field of street outreach and 
community violence prevention. It features an 18-week, 144-hour 
intensive curriculum, shaped and taught by street outreach 
workers and guided by 14 professional standards. Since the 
start of CP4P in July 2017, shootings and homicides declined an 
average of 1 percent per month in our target areas, where our 
shootings and homicides were increasing 2 percent per month 
before CP4P. This led to an overall reduction of 17.7 percent, 
on average, in the number of homicides and shootings per month 
in the first 30 months of operation. This is all, obviously, 
pre-COVID numbers.
    According to the city of Chicago's Office of Violence 
Prevention dashboard, there have been roughly 2,000 vehicular 
hijacking victimizations in Chicago since January 2021. We saw 
a slight drop in carjackings in the wards we served; however, 
we did not get the funding to formalize the initiative and 
properly evaluate the impact. We funded three different 
organizations to work across 16 wards on a carjacking 
initiative, but it's something that we would love to carry 
forward, moving forward.
    A history of slavery, convict leasing, Jim Crow, housing 
discrimination, mass incarceration has taken its toll. Chicago 
remains one of the most segregated cities in the United States. 
Public trust in our institutions continues to suffer because of 
bad actors such as police commander Jon Burge, found guilty of 
torturing approximately 120 people and coercing confessions. 
Operation Greylord is an FBI case where 92 officials faced 
indictment, and many convicted, including Judge Tom Maloney, 
for taking bribes for fixing murder cases. The recent shootings 
of Laquan McDonald, Anthony Alvarez, and Adam Toledo have 
police-community relations at an all-time low.
    Recognizing that any successful approach to crime reduction 
includes both violence prevention and trusted community 
partners with law enforcement, CP4P created the Community 
Training Academy, along with the Chicago Police Department and 
community-based organizations. Let's see. The Community 
Training Academy provides a curriculum for community-based and 
community-specific trainings for probationary officers and 
district coordination officers and officers recently 
transferring to a district. Through a 24-hour curriculum, every 
police district learns to apply a hyperlocal lens to 
communities they serve.
    To date, we have trained 100 officers, across eight police 
districts, since October 2020. Based on our survey results, 95 
percent of the officers have had a positive experience in the 
training and recommend all CPD officers complete the training. 
Additionally, CP4P meets on a bimonthly--bimonthly basis with 
local police commanders to identify local violent hotspots, 
coordinate interventions, and address quality-of-life issues.
    Law enforcement cannot provide the healing that comes from 
social service support and interventions but can work in tandem 
with the violence prevention infrastructure that provides 
options to steer youth in alternative directions. CP4P's 
community-based infrastructure is a vital part of a larger, 
necessary crime reduction ecosystem. As you consider ways the 
Federal Government can address issues of violent crime, 
sustainable funding that brings violence prevention to scale 
must be a part of the solution.
    Thank you for your time today. I look forward to answering 
any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Bryant appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Bryant. Chief Garcia, Would 
you make sure you're on? There we go.

             STATEMENT OF EDGARDO ``EDDIE'' GARCIA,

             CHIEF, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT, MAJOR

            CITIES CHIEFS ASSOCIATION, DALLAS, TEXAS

    Chief Garcia. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Grassley, and 
distinguished Members of the Committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to participate in today's hearing. I appear before 
you today as the chief of police of Dallas, Texas. It is also 
my privilege to testify on behalf of Major Cities Chiefs 
Association.
    We're here today to discuss the rise in carjackings 
occurring throughout the country. This trend is part of a 
larger increase in violent crime, which has disproportionately 
impacted MCCA members. Despite immense challenges, our brave 
officers continue to work tirelessly to keep our communities 
safe. The most recent MCCA violent crime report clearly shows 
that America is in the midst of a violent crime wave. In major 
cities nationwide, homicides in 2021 were up approximately 49--
approximately 49 percent compared to 2019 and 53 percent 
compared to 2018.
    Like other types of violent crime, carjacking has continued 
to rise. In several cities, the rates have more than doubled 
over the past few years. A few factors are driving this 
increase. These include financial gain, but mostly to further 
other criminal violent activity. Many of these carjackings are 
also committed by juveniles seeking to gain notoriety on social 
media or as part of gang initiations.
    Identifying and preventing this act of violence before it 
occurs and holding these individuals accountable is the best 
course of action. Despite the rise in crime, violent and 
chronic offenders continue to cycle through the criminal 
justice system. DAs, at times, are reluctant to prosecute 
certain crimes, including some violent and gun crimes, and 
judges continue to release violent and repeat offenders 
pretrial. These challenges extend to juvenile offenders, as 
well.
    Make no mistake, please. The general lack of accountability 
nationwide is contributing to the increase in violent crime and 
carjacking. Recruitment and retention remain challenging, and 
understaffing has contributed to officer burnout. At the 
executive level, since January 2020, more than half of MCCA's 
member agencies have also experienced a change in leadership. 
Such frequent turnover is detrimental to public safety overall 
and can make it incredibly difficult to institute reform or 
culture change.
    The current outlook in Dallas is not akin to other major 
cities, and while some other cities have seen record homicides, 
my city has experienced a decrease, and it's not by chance. The 
reduction in violent crime we've seen in Dallas would not be 
possible without the support of our city government, the 
exemplary work of the men and women and staff of the Dallas 
Police Department and criminologists from the University of 
Texas, San Antonio. I'd like to take a moment to use this 
platform to publicly thank them and their sacrifice for the 
incredible work that they do every day to keep the residents of 
the city of Dallas safe.
    Our crime-fighting strategy is centered on a violent crime 
reduction plan. The plan relies heavily on science and crime 
data and was developed in conjunction with criminologists Dr. 
Mike Smith and Dr. Rob Tillyer from the University of Texas, 
San Antonio. The short-term strategies of the plan focus on 
hotspots policings. Based on crime analysis and mapping, we've 
broken the city down into approximately 101,000 microgrids and 
deployed a highly visible presence to 50 of those crime grids. 
These 50 represent approximately 10 percent of the city's total 
violent crime. This mix of engagement and enforcement with our 
community has driven down violent crime in these grids by 50 
percent and, ultimately, violent crime as a whole citywide.
    The plan's midterm strategies consist of place network 
investigations. Dallas PD worked with other stakeholders to mix 
traditional law enforcement actions with other efforts on 
locations' criminogenic nature by strengthening the 
neighborhood and re-investing in the community. The longer-term 
strategies included in the plan emphasize focused deterrence to 
change behavior of high-risk offenders. These efforts include 
the provision of services, community violence interventions, 
and, when necessary, enforcement action.
    Violent crime in Dallas decreased in 2021 and is down 
roughly 17 percent again, year to date. Given the successes of 
the work of the men and women of the Dallas Police Department, 
I strongly encourage fellow chiefs to work, in conjunction with 
criminologists, to develop their own violent crime plan that 
meets the unique needs of their community. Many MCCA members 
are already working with our Federal partners to address 
violent crime and carjacking. These efforts should be expanded.
    Victim services, as well as programs such as Project Safe 
Neighborhoods, will be critical and must be adequately 
resourced. MCCA members have found pursuing Federal charges for 
violent criminals to be a successful strategy and a powerful 
deterrent. To support these efforts, Congress must help build 
capacity of the U.S. Attorney's Office to support additional 
prosecutions as appropriate. Proactive policing is critical and 
will be key to reducing violent crime overall, which will help 
drive down carjackings.
    Unfortunately, proactive policing in some cities has become 
a luxury, especially for local police departments contending 
with high murder rates, low staffing, and low morale. Law 
enforcement needs more resources to bolster its response to 
violent crime. Much of the recent Federal assistance provided 
to localities is not being used for law enforcement purposes. 
Congress should strongly consider providing additional 
assistance and must fully fund important grants such as COPS 
and the Byrne JAG.
    Continuing anti-law enforcement rhetoric has left honorable 
officers feeling vilified and criminals, offenders often 
bolstered. Support for law enforcement from our elected leaders 
has never been more vital. The support of the mayor and the 
city council have been integral in Dallas's efforts to reduce 
violent crime. Reform and proactive public safety are not 
mutually exclusive, and without the support of the work and 
sacrifices of our men and women, no plan will be successful.
    In closing, the successes we've had reducing violent crime 
in Dallas demonstrates how our communities are safer and more 
prosperous when investments are made, police officers are 
supported, and stakeholders work together. I look forward to 
any questions the Committee may have. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Chief Garcia appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Chief. Mr. Bozzella.

             STATEMENT OF JOHN BOZZELLA, PRESIDENT

             AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, ALLIANCE

           FOR AUTOMOTIVE INNOVATION, WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. Bozzella. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Grassley, and 
distinguished Members of the Committee, on behalf of the 
Alliance for Automotive Innovation and our members, I thank you 
for the opportunity to appear today to share my perspective on 
the troubling rise in carjackings, and the auto industry's work 
to be a constructive force in the broader efforts to address 
this challenge. Despite vehicles incorporating increasingly 
advanced safety features every year, over the past 2 years, 
roadway fatalities have increased dramatically. According to 
the latest data, the first 9 months of 2021 saw a 12 percent 
increase compared to the same period in 2020.
    We look forward to continuing engagement with the 
administration on a safe systems approach to improving safety 
on our roadways. This model, which acknowledges a shared 
responsibility and promotes a holistic approach to safety, may 
offer a guide for examining other complex challenges.
    Another disturbing trend over the past 2 years has been the 
increase in carjacking across the United States. I came to 
appreciate the full scope of this challenge, following outreach 
to our members from Sheriff Dart of Cook County, Illinois, to 
request assistance in addressing the rise in carjackings, 
including tracking these vehicles in real time. We quickly 
engaged with Sheriff Dart and his team to better understand 
their challenges and concerns. We also brought together our 
entire membership to take a deeper look at this issue.
    Over the past 2 months, our members have been meeting 
almost weekly to examine potential opportunities to improve 
collaboration with law enforcement. I want to take a moment to 
share my appreciation for the efforts of Sheriff Dart and his 
staff, along with you and your team, Mr. Chairman, and others, 
to elevate this important conversation. Clearly, the sharing of 
location information with anyone, including law enforcement, 
needs to be appropriately balanced with consumer privacy. The 
auto industry takes this seriously and, in 2014, came together 
to commit to a first-of-its-kind set of privacy principles.
    Those principles prohibit an automaker from sharing vehicle 
location information with any unaffiliated third party without 
affirmative consent of the vehicle owner. The principles 
specifically permit the sharing of vehicle location information 
with law enforcement in the absence of affirmative consent, if 
law enforcement has obtained a warrant, or other court order, 
to access the local--location information or in an exigent 
circumstance. This is a complex issue and one we take 
seriously.
    While the discussions with our members are ongoing, I can 
share a number of guiding principles as we work together on 
this important and complex topic. First, there is a variation 
in capabilities among automakers. We quickly learned this. 
While we are not privy to each OEM's, specific capabilities, we 
understand there is substantial variation between OEMs as well 
as variation in capability within some automakers. So while 
it's true that many modern vehicles have connectivity 
capability that may allow them to be located, it is not 
universally the case.
    Second, law enforcement verification. Another topic that 
emerged in our conversations with our members is the importance 
of verifying that a request for vehicle location information 
from law enforcement is, in fact, a legitimate request related 
to an active carjacking. Third, exigent circumstances 
determination. In addition to verifying that legitimate request 
from law enforcement, appropriate consideration must also be 
afforded to defining an exigent circumstance in the context of 
carjacking.
    Is it any case where a vehicle is stolen by force? Does it 
only apply in a circumstance where the theft places the owner 
or a passenger in imminent danger? At a minimum, we feel there 
should be a process to certify that there are exigent 
circumstances which make it impossible or impractical for law 
enforcement to obtain either the consent of the vehicle owner 
or a warrant or court order.
    Fourth, exposure to liability. Finally, as I'm sure Members 
of this Committee can appreciate, the sharing of real-time 
location information with law enforcement is a sensitive topic 
and may expose an automaker to liability, and thus should be 
taken into account when evaluating different policy or 
technical solutions to the problem. The auto industry is 
committed to remaining a constructive partner in the collective 
effort needed to address this challenge. Much like our work 
with DOT on safe systems, we look forward to continuing to 
examine ways in which we can support a similarly holistic 
approach to addressing this challenge. I want to recognize the 
Chairman and Ranking Member and Members of this Committee for 
continuing this critical conversation.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Bozzella appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Bozzella. Mr. Glawe.

             STATEMENT OF DAVID J. GLAWE, PRESIDENT

             AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, NATIONAL

         INSURANCE CRIME BUREAU, DES PLAINES, ILLINOIS

    Mr. Glawe. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Grassley, 
Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify on behalf of the National Insurance Crime Bureau and 
holding this important hearing. I'm the president and chief 
executive officer, headquartered in Des Plaines, Illinois.
    NICB has been in existence since 1912. We are the Nation's 
premier not-for-profit organization exclusively dedicated to 
leading a united effort to combat and prevent insurance crime 
through intelligence-driven operations. NICB sits at the 
intersection between law enforcement and the insurance 
industry. We are uniquely situated to serve as the information-
sharing hub for the Government and private sector and provide 
operational support in identifying, preventing, and deterring 
insurance-related crimes.
    On a daily basis, NICB's approximately 400 employees work 
closely with domestic and international law enforcement 
partners, Government agencies, and prosecutors throughout the 
country to fulfill its mission. NICB has unique expertise with 
auto theft investigations, particularly relating to 
identification and recoveries. Some of the seminal cases in 
which NICB provided critical assistance include the 1993 World 
Trade Center bombing, the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, the 
September 11th attacks, and the 2020 Nashville Christmas Day 
bombing.
    Regarding today's topic, the country is facing an 
unprecedented rise in vehicle thefts and carjackings. The data 
is explained in my written statement and highlights the 
disturbing trend. The States with the worst car theft trends 
between 2019 and 2021 include Colorado, a 79 percent increase; 
Wisconsin, a 74 percent increase; the State of New York, a 59 
percent increase; and DC, a 52 percent increase.
    As for the carjacking numbers, they are simply staggering. 
Cities with the worst carjacking trends between 2019 and 2021 
are the following: New York City, a 286 percent increase; 
Philadelphia, a 238 percent increase; Chicago, a 207 percent 
increase; DC, a 200 percent increase; and New Orleans, 159 
percent increase. A disturbing subplot to these bleak numbers 
is that many carjackings are often committed in furtherance of 
other serious violent crimes, and many carjackings are 
committed by juveniles, some as young as 11 years old. As one 
admitted Chicago carjacker put it, ``The number one reason kids 
are committing carjackings is to carry out drive-by 
shootings.''
    NICB partners directly with Federal and local law 
enforcement to resolve these cases. For example, in April 2021, 
NICB assisted with the multiregional Auto Theft Task Force in 
the State of New York. NICB provided the task force with an 
undercover bait car and operational funds for law enforcement 
equipment. Since NICB's involvement, 33 individuals have been 
arrested.
    NICB appreciates the Committee's focus on these serious 
problems. Based on our unique position and partnership with law 
enforcement across the country, we believe there are several 
measures that can be taken at both the State and Federal level. 
They include, first, increasing community policing programs. 
Reducing police presence in communities across the country is 
not the answer. Whether through the Federal COPS program or 
other measures, we need more community policing, not less.
    Second, revisit well-intentioned criminal justice reform 
policies. The First Step Act of 2018, championed by Chairman 
Durbin and Ranking Member Grassley and other Members of this 
Committee, represented a monumental achievement for criminal 
justice reform; however, reforms in some jurisdictions may have 
gone too far. Criminal justice reform must be balanced with the 
need to protect victims of crime and the overall safety of our 
communities.
    Third, enforce the laws as written. In many jurisdictions, 
the law provides appropriate penalties; however, some 
enforcement or reform policies have effectively nullified these 
laws, providing little deterrence for criminals to commit these 
serious offenses. Fourth, focus on violent offenders. It is no 
surprise that the most violent offenders commit the majority of 
serious crimes. Law enforcement should focus efforts on violent 
offenders through programs that prioritize enforcement efforts 
on the most serious offenders, such as the Project Safe 
Neighborhoods.
    Fifth, collect data on carjackings. The Committee should 
consider directing the FBI to collect national, State, and 
local carjacking statistics and analyze any connection between 
vehicle thefts and carjackings to other violent crime. Finally, 
identify and implement successful early intervention programs. 
Given the high incidence of juvenile offenders involved in 
carjackings and vehicle thefts, another important tool is early 
intervention programs targeting at-risk youths.
    Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Grassley, and Members of 
the Committee, thank you again for the opportunity to be here 
today. I'm happy to answer any questions you have.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Glawe appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Mr. Glawe. I'm going to start the 
questions. I have two questions I'm going to try to get in 
here, but I don't know if I can do it in 5 minutes.
    The first question is privacy, Sheriff Dart, and I think 
that Mr. Bozzella raised a good point. We all know that there 
are circumstances where there may be a dispute as to ownership 
of a car, maybe a testy divorce proceeding or whatever it 
happens to be, and the automobile manufacturers certainly want 
to cooperate with legitimate law enforcement but don't want to 
get caught in a tangle that leaves them open to liability. 
That's my first question, and I'll come to you in just a minute 
to start the answer.
    The second question, Mr. Glawe, I asked the CEO of 
Walgreens, ``Why is underarm deodorant under lock and key in 
your stores, of all the things you sell?'' He said, ``Because 
there's a secondary market for retail theft'' and that 
``underarm deodorant is going to end up in a flea market or 
online, along with a lot of other things, and so we're trying 
to stop the theft at the source, whether it's smash-and-grab or 
the like.'' Has there been something in the world of 
automobiles that has created a secondary market or some part of 
this that you might address, after Sheriff Dart speaks to 
privacy?
    Sheriff Dart. Thank you so much, Senator. I've heard the 
privacy issue brought up, and it's real to a certain extent, 
but for starters, the victims are there with us, and they've 
given consent, and they want this done, A. If there are bad 
actors, if there are bad actors who are using this for the 
wrong purpose, there are plenty of ways--as a former 
prosecutor--that you can charge these people for that.
    So, I do not think that's the reason we should be paralyzed 
here, because I was out with our people on a carjacking mission 
last week, and I cannot tell you the difference, it was such a 
great idea of how this could work. We had one car that we were 
tracking. We had active tracking going on. Our biggest question 
was what one of our cars was going to pull him over and arrest 
him. He was a person with a parole warrant, and he was in for 
shooting at police officers. We got him in custody. No issues.
    In another car that we were working with, we were in the 
back seat of the car with license plate readers, looking for 
cars that are on our list, because there's warrants for them, 
they had been stolen, carjacking, so on. By the time the 
license plate reader hits, though, it's 4 seconds before we get 
it. They're on the expressway, on the Dan Ryan. They're now 5 
miles down, just--we're completely operating in the dark. When 
it's tracked, we're there, right on top of it. When it's not 
tracked, it's completely, completely random, and we 
occasionally will get lucky.
    And so, that's why this privacy issue--it's real, but it 
absolutely cannot be stopping this and slowing this thing down, 
because we need this right now. I mean, this could be the game 
changer. The other things can be impactful a little bit. The 
tracking's everything.
    Chair Durbin. Mr. Bozzella, do you want to say a word 
before I turn to Mr. Glawe?
    Mr. Bozzella. I would simply say that we're looking to work 
with law enforcement to find a way to get this balance right. 
We think we're making progress in that regard, and we think 
that we can do this in a way that balances consumer privacy 
with the consumer's need to be protected from carjacking.
    Chair Durbin. Maybe the industry could start by having a 
consistent piece of technology, as opposed to many different 
ones, as you mentioned. Mr. Glawe, would you like to comment on 
the secondary market issue?
    Mr. Glawe. Sure. Chairman Durbin, thank you for the 
question. We have long-standing relationships with the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation; Department of Homeland Security and 
Customs and Border Protection, specifically; and State and 
local law enforcement in all 50 States and U.S. territories. 
This topic is very near and dear to NICB. We have done car 
investigation for over 100 years. Regarding secondary markets, 
the carjackings are usually associated in a conspiracy of other 
violations: criminal drive-by shootings and other offenses.
    But the secondary market for auto thefts or cars that are 
stolen is also different. We've seen a 39 percent increase in 
used vehicles over the last 2 years, approximately. There's a 
high supply--a high demand and a low supply. Cars are being 
stolen here in the United States. There's VIN swaps that are 
utilized to resell the vehicles so they're not known that they 
are stolen. They're shipped overseas, Middle East criminal 
enterprises. They go outbound, and as many of you are aware, 
they were funding for terrorism investigations like, Lebanese 
Hezbollah, in my prior capacity as department head for 
Intelligence for DHS. We've talked about that in our past.
    Then cars are also shipped to Mexico. We repatriate 
hundreds of cars a year that are shipped into Mexico after 
they're stolen. Senator, there is an extensive organized crime 
criminal conspiracy throughout the United States and worldwide 
on the supply chain on stolen vehicles, and we could even get 
into catalytic converters. There is a lot of profit to be made 
right now in this industry for the crime and for the criminals.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Grassley.
    Senator Grassley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks, all of 
you, for your testimony. I'm going to start with Mr. Herdman. 
You heard my opening remarks about carjackings up nationwide at 
alarming rates. Federal prosecutors have a role to play in 
bringing Federal carjacking charges. I want to help Federal 
prosecutors get the tools they need to keep our communities 
safe. Do you-carjackings regularly involve gangs and other 
criminal conspiracies? Second and last, what has been the 
Federal role in taking down gangs through carjacking and 
related prosecutions?
    Mr. Herdman. Thank you, Senator Grassley. Yes, I would say, 
just to echo what the other panelists have added, carjacking is 
absolutely in the toolbox of really any street gang that's 
operating in major American cities at this point in time. They 
tend to--gangs, in general, will tend to engage in, obviously, 
shootings and other intimidation tactics, but robberies, 
aggravated robberies and particularly car thefts, are important 
because they do help to facilitate other crimes, which has been 
addressed by other panelists, as well.
    When you're looking at a criminal street gang or any other 
kind of violent criminal organization, it's important to 
identify the predicate offenses that those gangs are 
committing, because then that allows Federal prosecutors and 
Federal investigators to build a RICO investigation or its 
corollary, a VICAR investigation, into a violent street gang 
organization. Carjacking, obviously, is playing an increasing 
role in the operations of those gangs and those violent 
organizations and will form the basis for larger network-type 
prosecutions that can take down not just one or two offenders, 
but an entire gang, all at once.
    Senator Grassley. For Mr. Glawe, when a vehicle's 
carjacked, both law enforcement and the car's owners want to 
find it before it can be used for another crime or an attacker 
can get away. For you, in what ways does private industry 
currently cooperate with law enforcement, and are there 
roadblocks to this cooperation?
    Mr. Glawe. Senator, thank you for the question. NICB has 
been partnering and sharing information with Federal, State, 
and local law enforcement for 100 years, and specifically 
regarding car thefts and carjackings. We are the information-
sharing hub, intelligence-driven operations, bridging the gap 
between the private sector, the insurance industry, and those 
law enforcement partners. We are generally protected by statute 
in that very narrow scope of sharing information, criminal 
information, in most States. Any barrier or impediment to that 
would negatively affect the crime-siting mission and the 
public.
    Senator Grassley. Let me lead into a question for Mr. 
Herdman and Garcia to respond to. Under Operation Legend, the 
Department of Justice sent more officers to cities to help 
fight violent crime. Increasing officers and patrols seemed to 
work very well. When the rise in anti-crime rhetoric and 
defund-the-police efforts, law enforcement across the country 
has struggled to retain enough officers to do proactive 
policing and to go out on standard police patrols. 
Additionally, the Biden administration hasn't continued the 
initiatives like Operation Legend, even while police 
departments are short-staffed.
    Chief Garcia, can you explain to the Committee how having 
officers physically present and on patrols in certain areas are 
an integral part of reducing crime in these communities? For 
Mr. Herdman, how important were Federal resources and the 
increased presence of law enforcement to the success in your 
city in fighting violent crime?
    Chief Garcia. Thank you, Senator, for the question. As I 
made mention in my comments, proactive policing is integral to 
reduction of violent crime. Having a plan, being scoped, and 
putting officers in the right locations, being vigilant, 
addressing problem areas, individuals that are recidivists, 
drug houses, things of this sort, and being there in the area 
reduce violent crime. We have shown it to reduce violent crime.
    In addition to that, many things, as we've talked about--I 
know the concept of ghost guns comes around--well, I'm here to 
say that, you know, you don't just find ghost guns thrown 
around at the scene of crimes. The way ghost guns, usually from 
patrol officers or SWAT officers or operational perspectives, 
get found--it's by a hardworking man or woman making an 
investigative car stop or an individual getting a search 
warrant on a home and then coming up with what that is.
    I'll tell you, in the city of Dallas, we would not have 
these reductions if not for the proactive investigative work of 
the men and women of the Dallas Police Department. And the 
perspectives are that I can't force a man or woman, at 3 in the 
morning, to make an investigative car stop in one of our most 
violent crime grids in the city and arrest an armed, drug-
dealing felon. They do that because they will feel supported. 
They do that because procedural justice has to work internal, 
inside the organization, in order for it to exist outside the 
organization.
    If officers don't feel that they're being treated fairly, 
if officers don't feel supported, they'll disengage from our 
communities when we need them to engage more now than ever, and 
not just from a proactive policing perspective, but from a 
community outreach perspective. And both those concepts aren't 
mutually exclusive. But again, proactive policing, having 
officers in the right areas--no plan will work if you don't 
have that.
    Senator Grassley. Mr. Herdman, would you give a short 
answer to my question, please, so we can move on?
    Mr. Herdman. Yes. Thank you, Senator Grassley, and I will 
keep it short. Operation Legend, obviously I was very fortunate 
to be able to extend that to Cleveland. The beauty of it was 
that, as the Chief was saying, when you had a patrol officer 
who made an arrest or made a stop, there was immediate reach-
back to Federal resources, because we had ATF agents, FBI 
agents, DEA agents, and the Marshals working hand in glove, arm 
in arm with police officers. They were based out of our 
districts in Cleveland, Ohio, and we had resources that were 
provided, including a coordination van that the ATF had, so 
that we could make correlations on ballistic evidence.
    The second thing was that we had committed Federal 
prosecutors to bring these cases federally, so we could target 
and identify the most violent offenders and ensure that they 
were held in, confined, and taken off the streets and 
prosecuted federally immediately. Then the third thing, 
obviously there was a funding component, and that was very 
important, both for morale but I think also for long-term 
growth and coordination with Federal agencies.
    Senator Grassley. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you. Senator Klobuchar.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Senator Durbin, 
Senator Grassley, for holding this important hearing. When I 
was a DA in Hennepin County, our biggest county, when I first 
got there, we had rampant carjacking. We made major focus on 
this. Back then, it was bait cars. It was more, of course, cars 
being stolen from the street, but oftentimes there were also 
people in them. And I'm committed to making a change here.
    I thought it was interesting what you talked about, Mr. 
Glawe, which makes some sense to me, about--everything you guys 
said made sense, but I want to start with this, with the 
organized crime and this idea that some of this is just, you 
know, people doing this for the fun of it, with people dead as 
a result, but some of it is because of the high demand for 
vehicles, and they're taking these cars. Would that make you 
lean more to a Federal response and the need for coordination 
with the FBI, U.S. Attorney's Office, and such?
    Mr. Glawe. Senator, thank you for the question. 
Fortunately, NICB has postured--that's what we do, and we 
actually have two former U.S. attorneys that are on my staff 
here today with us. We have aggressively postured with the FBI, 
Homeland Security investigations, and State and local law 
enforcement, exactly what you're talking about.
    The demand for cars right now is at an all-time high in the 
United States, up 39 percent. You can barely get a car when you 
go onto a lot. It has created a market for criminal 
organizations, especially if they don't actually commit a 
robbery, a violent crime--these are property crimes. We have 
seen a tremendous uptick in the United States since 2019, a 16 
percent increase in auto theft, but just the numbers on auto 
theft, Colorado has seen a 79 percent increase in auto theft; 
Wisconsin, 74; Vermont, 64; New York, 59 percent; DC 50----
    Senator Klobuchar. Yes. Yes, I know.
    Mr. Glawe. Yes.
    Senator Klobuchar. Could I give you my----
    Mr. Glawe. Yes.
    Senator Klobuchar [continuing]. Numbers?
    Mr. Glawe. Sure.
    Senator Klobuchar. Minneapolis alone--this is one city----
    Mr. Glawe. Yes.
    Senator Klobuchar [continuing]. Saw a 537 percent increase 
in carjackings between 2019 and 2020. In 2021, there were more 
than 640 successful or attempted carjackings in one city. That 
is not so different than what you're seeing by the numbers in 
Cook County, Sheriff. It's very similar with the percentages, 
where you've seen carjackings spike nearly threefold.
    I want to go to a different topic here with you, Chief 
Garcia, and that would be about, in general, supporting the 
police and the need to--and the morale issue and the like. I've 
led bipartisan legislation for years with Senator Murkowski, 
Coons, Tillis, about reauthorizing the COPS program. Could you 
talk about how that helps local law enforcement?
    Chief Garcia. Absolutely. Having that support from the COPS 
office and the COPS program, not only for the programs that we 
want to do and institute, with regards to looking at ways--
remember the old Weed and Seed programs that we would have, 
prior? You know, I was a big Weed and Seed, back in the early 
1990's when I started this, and kind of had a resurgence of it 
in the city of Dallas, with the terminology and using that, but 
having those resources, helping resources and getting officers 
on the street, doing both proactive policing as well as 
community engagement is crucial and critical. More police 
officers in law enforcement agencies, if you have a plan, 
reduces violent crime.
    Senator Klobuchar. If you have a plan.
    Chief Garcia. Yes, ma'am.
    Senator Klobuchar. Yes. I agree. Mr. Herdman, in early 
February, the U.S. attorney's office in Minnesota brought 
Federal charges against a group of seven men for violent 
crimes, including carjacking. These cases were being prosecuted 
as part of the joint Federal, State, and local Project Safe 
Neighborhoods, which is, as you know, a Federal initiative led 
by U.S. attorneys. How does partnering with local and State law 
enforcement agencies act as a force multiplier for the U.S. 
attorneys' offices?
    Mr. Herdman. Thank you for the question, Senator Klobuchar. 
The Federal agencies--they operate most effectively, in my 
experience, when they actually are present in the police 
departments. When you have ATF agents and FBI agents who show 
up and work, hand in hand, on the same shifts with patrol 
officers, I think that that's a very effective way to 
demonstrate a message not only to the police officers in the 
big-city department, but I think also to the community.
    And so, I would suspect that that's what was going on with 
the violent crime task force in Minneapolis. I would hope so, 
because you do see--it's daily coordination and hourly 
coordination, as opposed to on a quarterly basis or a biannual 
basis. It's much more frequent and, I think, much more 
effective that way.
    Senator Klobuchar. You would agree that it's important to 
have a U.S. attorney in place, regardless of their political 
party? Have someone in place, running these offices?
    Mr. Herdman. I'm aware of the candidate who's been 
nominated. He's my partner at Jones Day, Mr. Luger, and he's--
--
    Senator Klobuchar. Are you kidding? I didn't know that.
    Mr. Herdman. I will say, I'm on the record, I think, with 
respect to Mr. Luger. He's superbly qualified.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. You should all know that Mr. 
Luger was the U.S. attorney at the end of President Obama's 
term. Actually, the Justice Department under Donald Trump, he 
was one of two people they were considering having stayed on. 
He decided to go another route, and now he's ready to come 
back. He has strong support from Republican leaders that people 
on this side of the dais know. We haven't had problems with 
Andy Luger from most of the Republican Senators. This is a 
crusade of Tom Cotton's, who is not just holding up Mr. Luger, 
he's holding up a number of other U.S. attorneys and Marshals.
    I've got a situation in my State--and he's not here right 
now--where we have two retired police chiefs in Minneapolis-St. 
Paul. Like many jurisdictions, we don't have enough police 
right now. Andy Luger has vast experience and is willing to 
take on this carjacking issue, but Tom Cotton has decided, 
because of his opposition to something happening in another 
State, that he is holding up my U.S. attorney. I have had it. 
If he wants to be on the side of carjackers, go ahead, but we 
need leadership.
    This is not just a State and local issue. This is an 
organized crime issue, as Mr. Glawe has pointed out. This is an 
issue that goes beyond little local jurisdictions and one 
neighborhood's cop. It is about the cops doing their jobs, but 
it is also about taking on these cases in a big, big way.
    None of you have much to do with this. I cannot believe 
you're at the same law firm, Mr. Herdman. I did not know that. 
But I would really appreciate my colleagues on the other side 
of the aisle talking to Mr. Cotton to find some way to resolve 
this in the next week, because I am not going to give this up. 
You cannot hold up the U.S. attorneys who have no serious 
objections, support from Republicans, just to make a case, 
because you want to get attention nationally. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. I might add that the U.S. Marshal for the 
Northern District of Illinois is also on Senator Cotton's list. 
Senator----
    Senator Klobuchar. As is the Marshal in the State of 
Minnesota.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Cornyn.
    Senator Cornyn. Chief Garcia, you can understand why I and 
others from Texas, and particularly in the Dallas area, are 
proud of the great work that you and the Dallas Police 
Department have done and the support that you've gotten from 
leadership like Mayor Johnson and the city council, and I 
appreciate your being here and sharing your formula for 
success. Is there any reason why other cities across the 
country couldn't embrace your approach in Dallas with similar 
results?
    Chief Garcia. There is no reason, Senator. I believe some 
have reached out. Some have reached out to us, and some have 
reached out to my criminologist partners, as well, but there is 
no reason why other agencies can't be doing the same things.
    Senator Cornyn. Am I correct in assuming that, since 
carjacking involves the threat or actual use of violence, that 
overwhelmingly it involves a firearm?
    Chief Garcia. Overwhelmingly, yes.
    Senator Cornyn. You, Chief, and I think Mr. Glawe, if I 
pronounced his name correctly, both mentioned Project Safe 
Neighborhoods, which of course is a Federal program designed to 
go after violent offenders that use a firearm, felons in 
possession and others, and use the mandatory minimums available 
under Federal firearms law. That started out, as I recall, as 
Project Exile in the Richmond U.S. attorney's office, years 
ago.
    In Texas, when I was attorney general, we called it ``Texas 
Exile,'' but the basic point is working with local and State 
law enforcement and Federal resources, particularly Federal 
prosecutors, to use Federal law to go after violent gun 
offenders and use the mandatory minimum available under Federal 
law, in order to dissuade people from using a firearm in the 
first place and, if you couldn't, to put them behind bars for a 
significant period of time. In your experience, Chief, is 
Project Safe Neighborhoods an important component of your 
ability to lower violent crime and reduce gun crime in Dallas?
    Chief Garcia. Absolutely. We have a remarkable relationship 
with my FBI, DEA, ATF, Marshals Office. We are in constant 
conversations. They have molded what we're doing to PSN to look 
at how we're doing our crime plan and be able to make that 
coexist. There is no question that the deterrent of filing 
these cases federally does work. Again, as we made mention 
earlier, I mean, one of the things we need to do is really 
utilize the laws that we have on the books. If we believe that 
gun crime is an issue, then individuals that are violating 
those laws need to be held accountable to the highest extent.
    Senator Cornyn. Mr. Glawe, you also mentioned Project Safe 
Neighborhoods. Do you share the Chief's point of view on that?
    Mr. Glawe. Senator, I do. Chief Garcia is exactly correct. 
I was actually an agent in Richmond almost 20 years ago, in 
that program you're talking about. Very familiar with it. 
Absolutely. It's a holistic approach, a strategy which needs a 
deterrent effect and strong enforcement and support of law 
enforcement, but also the community engagement and looking to 
off-ramp at-risk youths in the community before they commit the 
crimes, but I absolutely agree with the Chief.
    Senator Cornyn. Mr. Herdman, you used to be a U.S. 
attorney. What's your view?
    Mr. Herdman. Yes, Senator Cornyn. Thank you for the 
question. Absolutely, there needs to be a thought-out--and I 
think the Chief has put this very well--a plan, a plan that can 
be executed on and followed up, so there's close coordination 
between Federal agencies and local law enforcement, again, on 
identifying the most violent, most persistent felons, and 
ensuring that they receive Federal prosecutions if they're 
found to be in illegal possession of a firearm. It's absolutely 
effective.
    Senator Cornyn. Chief Garcia, I believe you and the 
district attorney in Dallas County have a good working 
relationship, but how important is it to have supportive 
prosecutors? Obviously, the police can't prosecute the crime. 
You investigate the crime, and you apprehend people who violate 
the law, but then it's up to the prosecutor to bring the 
charges. It's no secret, around the country, that there've been 
a group of prosecutors that have declined to enforce laws that 
are on the books, and with disastrous consequences for public 
safety, but can you just speak to the importance of having 
good, solid prosecutors who will enforce the law as written?
    Chief Garcia. It's incredibly important, absolutely 
important to hold individuals accountable, particularly 
individuals that have committed violence. The recidivism that 
we see when individuals are re-released quickly is an issue, 
but in addition to the district attorneys, you know, that we 
need to also call into question judges, as well, that are 
making decisions. Particularly, the district attorney in Dallas 
County has very little to say when it has to do with bonds or 
bail. That's on judges. You know, there are judges that have 
made irresponsible decisions in letting individuals out after 
they've committed acts of violence, that have come back to hurt 
our communities.
    But I would finish with this message. We have to control 
what we can control, and the message that I give my men and 
women is that if another part of the system lets us down, and 
you have to respond back to that house 20 times, then you 
respond back to that house 20 times, because we're not going to 
let our community down.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Coons.
    Senator Coons. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Grassley, for holding this important hearing on carjackings, a 
form of violent crime that is steadily increasing across both 
red and blue States. It's the latest in a series of hearings 
that you've held in this Committee to look at violence 
prevention and what we can do to be smarter on crime and more 
effective, and what's the Federal role to help reverse this 
alarming trend.
    As the Co-Chair of the Senate Law Enforcement Caucus with 
Senator Blunt of Missouri, I'm particularly sensitive to the 
challenges of law enforcement where there's inadequate or 
uneven collection of data, and one of the challenges here, in 
terms of understanding the rise in carjackings across the 
country, and particularly in my home State of Delaware, is 
accurate and comprehensive statewide statistics, partly, in my 
State, because of how criminal law categorizes crime, depending 
on the particular facts of each case. If I could, first Sheriff 
Dart and Chief Garcia, I'd be interested in hearing about some 
of the obstacles to State and local data collection on 
carjackings, and then I'd be very interested in hearing how you 
think Federal law enforcement can most critically play a 
constructive role in addressing this ongoing challenge. 
Sheriff?
    Sheriff Dart. Thank you so much, Senator. You nailed it, 
Senator. When we first got engaged with this because of the 
rise, our very first stumbling block was getting beyond the 
anecdotes and actually have real, hard data. We spent an 
inordinate amount of time at our office, collecting all the 
data from the city of Chicago, and all the rest of the suburbs, 
to put a comprehensive database together. Why was that 
important? Well, just to get at, where were the carjackings 
occurring? What time of day? What vehicles were they using? 
Everything was all across the board.
    I can't emphasize enough how correct you are. We have 130 
suburbs in my county, as well, and it runs the gamut from ones 
that are wildly well funded to ones that literally, literally 
pay their officers $10 an hour, and so the turnover is such 
that, more often than not, I'm called in to do their patrol 
work because they don't have anybody for shift after shift.
    With that, when you ask about what can the Federal 
Government do, anything and everything you can do to put 
together a template on data collection, to put together 
resources so that it isn't just the well-off departments have 
dashboards, like we do--we have a phenomenal dashboard that we 
put together--but they have the ability to do it, because 
everyone knows if you put junk in, that's what you're going to 
get. In these----
    Senator Coons. Thank you, Sheriff. When I was county 
executive in Delaware, one of the things we did was literally 
borrow from Cook County's work on data analysis. Forgive me. I 
just have two and a half minutes. Chief----
    Sheriff Dart. Please.
    Senator Coons [continuing]. If you could, how can law 
enforcement federally best help law enforcement at the 
municipal and local level?
    Chief Garcia. You know, I will say this. The model that we 
have really is truly having SAGs that are in place that truly 
want to buy into the law enforcement agency's mission and role, 
and to not be single-minded, but be able to not just look 
outside the box but act outside the box with regards to who 
their law enforcement partner is and having those 
relationships.
    Senator Coons. Having ATF, DEA, FBI, Marshals actively 
engaged, coordinating with local law enforcement and then using 
that data analysis to target those resources--that strikes me 
as one of the things we can bring to the table. Last two 
questions, if I might. Mr. Herdman, you mentioned, in your 
testimony, expanded Federal prosecution of juveniles involved 
in carjackings isn't a reasonable solution. Could you tell us 
briefly why not?
    Mr. Herdman. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the question. 
Yes, it's just not feasible. The volume of offender, as well as 
the resources that are available on the Federal level, in the 
Federal courts, are just not feasible for widespread 
prosecution of juveniles, and I think we have to acknowledge 
that, going in, because of the prevalence of juvenile offenders 
particularly in carjacking, and identify other ways that there 
could be Federal support for prosecution, rehabilitation, and 
reentry for youthful offenders.
    Senator Coons. Well, the President made a proposal to fund 
community violence interventions as a means of reducing violent 
crime. Mr. Bryant, what sort of community-based interventions 
could make a meaningful impact in reducing the involvement of 
juveniles, of kids, in this particular kind of violent crime?
    Mr. Bryant. Thank you for the question. I think really 
reaching out to the highest-risk individuals, typically, those 
are actually going to be adults. And the more that we can 
rehabilitate adults, the better they're going to be as parents 
for their kids, because we have to, you know, sort of 
rehabilitate our communities, our families, so that they're 
more self-sustaining, so that the institutions that are going 
to educate our kids and heal our kids are all working in 
tandem. So, the work we do is really trying to build at the 
community level, because it's the people in the community that 
have to be empowered to do for themselves.
    Senator Coons. Thank you, Mr. Bryant. I think I can see a 
general approach: improve data collection and analysis; improve 
the coordination; having senior agents in charge, special 
agents in charge who actually bring Federal resources to bear; 
make sure that we're not targeting juveniles in a way that 
makes them essentially the scapegoat for what is a broader 
challenge; and have community-based interventions.
    We have to have effective and appropriate law enforcement 
and prosecutions, targeted to the most violent adult 
individuals, and community-based supports for those undergoing 
reentry, to make sure they don't reoffend and to give them the 
support and the options to avoid a steady increase in this kind 
of crime. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this productive hearing.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Coons. Senator Blackburn.
    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to 
each of you for being here. Mr. Glawe, I want to come to you 
first. Senator Coons was just talking about targeting the 
right--putting the focus where it should be. Now in Tennessee, 
we make automobiles, and ther are some that want to sue the 
automakers because they say automakers should be able to make 
it harder to hijack a car. To me, this sounds a lot like victim 
blaming. But I'd like for you just to touch on what the--the 
effect of some of these proposed lawsuits against automakers, 
and then how that would affect the cost to manufacturers, how 
it may set up perverse incentives.
    Mr. Glawe. Senator, thank you for the question. From NICB's 
perspective, we are the hub for information-sharing. We have a 
manufacturers working group. We've worked with the insurance 
industry and Federal, State, and local law enforcement for 100 
years. This is what we do. So any impediment for sharing of 
intelligence or information on stolen vehicles, cars that have 
been stolen, or any crimes would hurt our mission and hurt the 
public. I would say when thoughtful legislation is occurring at 
the Federal or State level, information sharing, narrowly 
scoped for crime information, is critical to our mission space 
and to break down those barriers.
    Senator Blackburn. I appreciate that. You know, I was 
struck by the DOJ focus that we have had, in their violence 
reduction strategy, on what they call the iron pipeline and gun 
dealers. I think this response really misses the mark, if we're 
talking about targeting and we're talking about focusing. One 
of the things that we have seen, as we've looked at this issue, 
is the way police departments and law enforcement agencies are 
drained of resources right now, and the way some of these local 
entities are on this defund-the-police push.
    The other thing that has interested me is the way 
progressive prosecutors have really come to be, in major 
metropolitan cities, and how they're refusing to prosecute some 
of these criminals. Chief Garcia, talk a minute about where you 
are. Then, Mr. Herdman, I want to come to you. Let's talk about 
gun reform and if that's the appropriate path, or is it better 
to go in and look at the issue of the violent offenders, look 
at the necessity for lawful gun ownership and the effects that 
some of these policies have?
    Chief Garcia. Thank you, Senator. What I will say, first of 
all, that, to me, it is the access of firearms to criminals 
that are not being held accountable that is my issue. If we're 
going to strengthen the laws--the laws we have on the books, 
then let's strengthen them so that we have responsible gun 
ownership, that we have safe-stored guns, but ultimately, 
again, it's the criminal access to firearms that's the issue.
    Senator Blackburn. Okay. Mr. Herdman.
    Mr. Herdman. I couldn't agree more, Senator. We took a very 
offender-based approach in the Justice Department when I was 
U.S. attorney, and I think that that's the appropriate way to 
approach this problem. You have individuals who are not only in 
possession illegally of a firearm, but they've demonstrated, 
through their history and through their prior conduct, that 
they're willing to engage in violent activity against their 
fellow residents of their city. I think the offender-based 
approach is the only one that really works, because those are 
the people that we have to be concerned about: the ones who are 
willing not only to possess a firearm illegally but to use it. 
You have to have a strategy that's going to address that 
threat.
    Senator Blackburn. I think you're right about that. Then 
you look at some of these liberal prosecutors, and I hear from 
a lot of women who are very concerned about people like Chesa 
Boudin and Gascon and the fact that you have these violent 
offenders that end up back on the streets. They're concerned 
about the Biden administration doubling down on a ``soft-on-
crime'' strategy and what they see coming from people like 
Rachael Rollins, who declined to prosecute 15 different crimes 
as a matter of policy, and as a U.S. attorney from 
Massachusetts.
    Just last week, we had a nominee for the Eastern District 
of New York who has publicly applauded the progressive 
prosecutor movement. That's unfortunate for the people of New 
York, because that individual may end up on the Federal bench. 
Mr. Herdman, what kind of internal reform do we need to see, 
for our district attorneys and U.S. attorneys across the 
country, so that they're addressing this rise in violent crime?
    Mr. Herdman. I've been a lawyer for over 20 years, Senator, 
and most of that has been spent as a prosecutor, either a State 
or Federal prosecutor. The one thing that I thought was the 
most important part of my job was not to act as a legislator, 
when I was in that role. I was very aware of the fact that I 
was part of the executive branch.
    It was my job to carry out the law that was given to us by 
the legislature and that had been approved by the courts. That 
was the attitude that I had when I was U.S. attorney, that was 
the approach that we took when we prosecuted cases out of the 
Northern District of Ohio when I was U.S. attorney, and I think 
that's the most fundamental obligation you have as a 
prosecutor, is to prosecute the law that's given to you, not to 
try to legislate from your office.
    Senator Blackburn. That is important for us to keep in mind 
as we look at judges and as we look at U.S. attorney nominees. 
It's important to stay in your lane. Thank you very much. I 
appreciate your attention. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Tillis.
    Senator Tillis. You can defer to Cruz.
    Chair Durbin. You want to defer to him? Senator Cruz.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Over the last 
several years, we have seen countless Democrats across the 
country embracing the movement to defund or abolish the police. 
We've seen Democrats supporting district attorneys, funded in 
significant part by George Soros, who refuse to prosecute 
violent crime, who release violent criminals into our 
community. The consequence of these extreme policies is, sadly, 
predictable. When they began demonizing cops, when they began 
advocating for defunding and abolishing the police, all of us 
who had worked in law enforcement said the result is going to 
be skyrocketing crime. Tragically, that is precisely the result 
we've seen nationwide, homicides increased 30 percent from 2019 
to 2020. Twenty-seven major U.S. cities experienced a 44 
percent increase in homicides since 2019. Homicides increased 
in 44 of the 7 major cities from 2020 to 2021, and over a dozen 
cities set new homicide records in 2021.
    The topic of this hearing, carjacking, has been 
particularly horrific. New York City carjackings quadrupled 
since 2018 to more than 500 in 2021. Philadelphia quadrupled 
since 2015 to more than 800 in 2021. New Orleans nearly tripled 
from 2018 to 2021.
    Washington, DC, they're up 300 percent since 2019. 
Minneapolis, they're up 375 percent from 2020 to 2021, and 
Chicago carjackings have increased an astonishing 500 percent 
since 2014, after carjackings skyrocketed in 2020.
    All of these are endangering people's lives. They're 
endangering their family. They're endangering their children. 
Chief Garcia, mayor of Dallas, Eric Johnson, has become a 
friend, and I will say you and the mayor have shown remarkable 
courage, bucking a national trend and taking on some of the 
extreme voices on the left advocating abolishing the police, 
advocating defunding the police, advocating slashing funding 
for the police. Instead, the mayor, with you working along his 
side, have courageously argued the best way to protect 
communities, particularly low-income communities, is having an 
effective police force that is well resourced, that is on the 
ground to protect people's lives. As a consequence, Dallas was 
the only one of the top 10 cities in this country where violent 
crime fell in 2021.
    Chief Garcia, how harmful do you believe efforts to defund 
or abolish the police have been, and what's the best way to 
stop violent crime?
    Chief Garcia. First, I'll say that I think there's just 
been a false narrative. It's those in power believing the 
rhetoric that has been the issue. I'm not a stay-in-the-office 
kind of chief, Senator, whether it was in my former position as 
chief in California or chief now in the city of Dallas. I have 
not met a neighborhood impacted by violent crime in the city of 
Dallas, Texas, regardless of language spoken, racial makeup, or 
economic status that has ever asked me for less police.
    In fact, unfortunately, it's our communities of color that 
usually plead for me for more. Yes, they want fair policing. 
Yes, we want to be just. Yes, we need to get better. But none 
of the neighborhoods that I go see want us to go away. And so, 
there is--there is definitely a disconnect between what we're 
hearing, the false narrative, and what's actually occurring in 
neighborhoods that are impacted by violent crime.
    The second part to your question is, we need to ensure that 
the morale of the department is high; we need to ensure that 
communities know that we're there to support them; and then we 
need to make sure that we team up with scientists, doctors of 
criminology, to tell us what the best practices are, so that we 
have credibility not only to our community, that what we're 
doing is not just something else that we're throwing up against 
the wall, but to our rank and file, so they don't feel the same 
way, as well, because again, without the buy-in from both, no 
plan's going to be successful.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you, Chief. You know, I will say, it's 
not just a few radical voices on the far left but, sadly, the 
Biden administration. President Biden has nominated two of the 
leading advocates for abolishing the police to senior positions 
in the Department of Justice, and, astonishingly, every single 
Senate Democrat voted to confirm them. President Biden has 
nominated prosecutors who have been Soros' prosecutors, 
releasing violent criminals. He's nominated them to senior 
positions, and sadly, every single Democrat has voted to 
confirm them.
    Sheriff Dart, let me ask you a final question. In January 
of this year, you spoke to The New York Post about the pretrial 
monitoring program that you operate on behalf of Cook County, 
and you voiced concerns over the type of defendants that were 
placed in pretrial home confinement. You stated that you have 
2,600 defendants on pretrial home monitoring, and 75 to 80 
percent of those defendants sent to home monitoring--not sent 
to jail--are charged with a violent offense.
    What are the consequences of 75 to 80 percent of the 
defendants with--on home monitoring being charged with a 
violent offense? And are the district attorneys objecting and 
fighting? I understand the judges are sending them there, but 
what's the DA's office view on this?
    Sheriff Dart. To your point, Senator, you're right. I mean, 
to the police officers out on the street, it's beyond 
demoralizing, because so many--these are the folks that take us 
so much time to get the initial case against them, and then, 
literally, when they're back out on the street an hour later, 
on home monitoring, it's very demoralizing. And so, it's 
something that is, frankly--and it's been brought up here 
numerous times already.
    On the judicial side, it has been very, very difficult. I'm 
a former prosecutor myself, and you could talk all you want, 
when you're in court, on the bond side of it, but it's the 
judge who will make that ultimate determination. I made it 
clear to them, for home monitoring purposes, that's not what it 
was ever set up for. It was set up for drug offenders and 
people along those lines.
    When you put those folks out, not only is it very difficult 
for us to monitor them, because that's not what it was set up 
for, but it's very demoralizing for the communities, because 
they know full well that that guy was bad. He finally got 
caught, but now he's right back. And so, it's been very, very 
difficult and very trying.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. We often hear claims about defunding the 
police, and I'd like to enter into the record some information 
about significant increases in Federal funding for State and 
local law enforcement under the Biden administration.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    The American Rescue Plan, passed with only Democratic votes 
in the Senate, provided $350 billion in State and local funding 
that the Biden administration has made available for use in 
hiring law enforcement personnel, purchasing law enforcement 
technology and equipment, and supporting community violence 
intervention programs. I'm not going to read the entire 
statement for the record, but I will add that the only instance 
where we have a Senator holding up the appointment of law 
enforcement officials at the Federal level, to help deal with 
the crime we're talking about today, is a Republican Senator 
from Arkansas.
    He can't explain it, because there's no complaint about any 
of these individuals. He just has his own feelings toward the 
subject. But to argue that this is a partisan subject is an 
oversimplification. Senator Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
being here. I was a former Federal prosecutor, the U.S. 
attorney in Connecticut, and State attorney general in 
Connecticut for 20 years, and I know firsthand how challenging 
and sometimes heartbreaking your job is, and I admire your 
dedication as career law enforcement officials to this cause. I 
want to emphasize a point here, that I think the American 
people really feel very deeply, which is, this cause should not 
be partisan. We shouldn't be fighting among ourselves, 
Republicans against Democrats, on law enforcement. It ought to 
be absolutely, across-the-aisle, 100 percent in favor.
    These numbers, $350 billion in State and local funding in 
the American Rescue Plan, $2.1 billion for State and local law 
enforcement assistance, $184 million above the Fiscal Year 2021 
number--we ought to be increasing the resources available, not 
just in the hardware, equipment, but also in the kind of 
training and, yes, counseling that you need, that many of the 
folks who go through trauma--they experience trauma firsthand, 
and it impacts them. They deserve it, and they need it.
    More funding is part of the answer here, and the more we 
are fighting and trying to discredit colleagues on this issue 
or at the community level, fellow elected officials, fellow 
citizens, the more we are drawn into a morass of inaction. 
That's a disservice to you but, more fundamentally, to our 
crime victims and survivors who need that help.
    As you said, Chief, I have never found a community where 
people say, ``Oh, give us less protection. We need fewer cops 
on the beat. We need less safeguards against the drive-by 
shootings that take our young people when they're sitting on 
porches in downtown Hartford or just otherwise going about 
their lives.'' Americans feel deeply about this issue, and they 
want support for our law enforcement, and we should be giving 
them more, not just in dollars, but emotional support, as well.
    This issue of carjacking has bedeviled me since I was U.S. 
attorney and tried to get the FBI to investigate carjacking. 
Federal law prohibits it, but as you know, it requires proof, 
beyond a reasonable doubt, the defendant had intent to cause 
serious bodily harm or death, and some courts have required 
evidence to establish such intent, quote, ``at the precise 
moment'', unquote, the car is taken.
    Let me ask you, to make this law more effective and crimes 
more easily provable when they involve carjacking, should we 
make it presumptive evidence, that someone had a firearm at the 
time they took a car, that they meant bodily harm if they have 
a firearm, whether or not they're a convicted felon and they 
could legally possess it--and even whether it's properly 
licensed to them? You have a firearm at the time you carjack a 
car, there's Federal jurisdiction. Let me turn that question 
over to you.
    Mr. Herdman. If I may, Senator? I appreciate the question, 
and I think the inclusion of that particular specific intent 
mens rea in the statute is a hindrance to being able to bring 
Federal cases. I do think, obviously, in other places we have 
firearm enhancements or firearm as the basis for jurisdiction 
for a Federal offense. Here, we also separately have a vehicle 
that's in interstate commerce. Bit I do agree that it's unusual 
to see that kind of a mens rea in a violent crimes statute, and 
it does serve as, at least initially, an obstacle to bringing 
these cases.
    I spoke, in my opening testimony, about the risks 
associated with carjacking. It happens in a split second, 
there's a moving car involved, sometimes there's passengers in 
the car who are not seen to the perpetrator, including 
children. That raises the risk that there's going to be some 
sort of resistance, either by virtue of surprise or by virtue 
of trying to defend family members, from the person who's a 
victim of the crime. The inclusion of a firearm in that set of 
circumstances greatly increases the risk of somebody being 
seriously injured or killed in the course of a carjacking. We 
see that over and over and over again.
    So, I do think, for the Committee's work, if there were 
some consideration both of the mens rea component of this, as 
well as addition of a conspiracy statute within 2119 itself, 
that would be very effective for Federal prosecutors and would 
greatly assist the ability to bring these cases federally.
    Sheriff Dart. Senator, if I could just add, as well, I work 
very closely with our U.S. attorney in Chicago, and he's 
phenomenal, but he's brought up the exact point that was just 
made: that he cannot proceed because of what you had pointed 
out. In these crimes, not only are they very violent, they're 
very organized. They usually have multiple cars, so the person 
holding the gun on the individual is not the one that gets in 
the car. Somebody else gets in the car. They have a trail car 
that goes, usually, a couple blocks away. They flip drivers. 
It's very complex. Conspiracy, absolutely.
    But to the other point we talked about, that's why the 
tracking is so imperative, because if we don't get that car 
quickly, there is no scenario where that poor victim, who just 
had a gun put to their head, is going to be able to identify 
anybody. What we'll have is a fourth individual is actually the 
one in the car that we caught, not the one that started it. 
That's why these type of discussions would be so helpful to us, 
because this is very well organized, and these are crews that 
are doing it in a very thoughtful fashion.
    Senator Blumenthal. You know, I think your points are very 
well taken. We're sort of talking lawyer talk, here. We know 
that mens rea is an element of a crime that has to be proved 
beyond a reasonable doubt. Walking into court, as a prosecutor, 
you've got a checklist, elements of the crime. Got to prove 
intent, but to do bodily harm at the time of the crime, at that 
precise moment, is hard to prove unless you have some physical 
evidence like possession of a firearm. It can be--if you're 
proving a conspiracy, it can be one of the conspirators. As you 
well put it here this morning, these crimes succeed because 
they are organized, they are, in effect, a conspiracy.
    Thanks for your observations, Sheriff. Thank you, and thank 
you very much, all of you, for being here today. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Blumenthal. Senator Tillis.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, 
gentlemen, for being here. Chief Garcia, how's morale?
    Chief Garcia. I would say morale, indicative of the amazing 
work the men and women are doing, is in the direction that we 
want it to go, because we couldn't be doing what we're doing if 
it wasn't.
    Senator Tillis. How are retirements, on the one end, versus 
recruiting on the other end?
    Chief Garcia. You know, what we're looking at is 
retirements are coming off as usual, for every--every year, 
we're looking at about 200, 195 to 200 in attrition per year.
    Senator Tillis. Are you back filling them?
    Chief Garcia. We are. We are. Our academies--we just 
graduated one last week. We're continuing to hire. We're doing 
everything we can to restore--I will say this, we--I mean, I'm 
not quite sure that a lot of places--when we talk about 
support, our mayor, city council approved us to hire 500 
officers in the next two fiscal years, and so----
    Senator Tillis. In addition?
    Chief Garcia. Yes, to get to, hopeful, 3,200. Obviously 
with the attrition we have----
    Senator Tillis. Yes.
    Chief Garcia [continuing]. You know, we're----
    Senator Tillis. It's hard to catch up.
    Chief Garcia. We're going to catch up, and we're starting 
to catch up.
    Senator Tillis. Sheriff Dart, same questions.
    Sheriff Dart. We are having a greater difficulty than the 
Chief is.
    Senator Tillis. Do you think some of that has to do with 
maybe the positions that outside organizations and elected 
officials have taken toward police?
    Sheriff Dart. That factors in. There's--it's complex, but I 
can tell you, within the Chicago Police Department, which is 
not my jurisdiction but within my county----
    Senator Tillis. Yes.
    Sheriff Dart. Having horrible times with many more 
retirements than they are----
    Senator Tillis. Fewer recruits?
    Sheriff Dart. Oh, God, yes. We're having the same problems 
but on a smaller scale.
    Senator Tillis. Do you think some who have suggested, over 
the last year or two, that Cook County and Chicago needs fewer 
police is a good idea?
    Sheriff Dart. Oh, it's an awful idea. I mean, and it always 
was. I can just tell you, Chicago, rightfully so, gets most of 
the attention, but the 130 suburban areas that I also have 
under me--they're desperate. There's entire departments where I 
have to do multiple shifts because they have no police officers 
at all.
    Senator Tillis. Yes, I think there is spillover. I live in 
the Charlotte suburban area, and I'm in the Huntersville Police 
Department. They're looking for recruits. Actually, 
interestingly, they're advertising in Washington State, and a 
number of other places and getting a flow over to an area 
where, I think, public officials are more kind toward law 
enforcement officers who put their lives on the line.
    Mr. Bozzella, do you believe the car industry needs to 
actually step up and become a part of the solution to the 
problem of carjackings?
    Mr. Bozzella. We do believe we can be part of a broader 
solution.
    Senator Tillis. But do you think it's your problem?
    Mr. Bozzella. We're here to be part of a broader solution.
    Senator Tillis. How many cars are on the road right now 
that would never have the technology that would go into a car, 
let's say, 2 years from now?
    Mr. Bozzella. Well, many.
    Senator Tillis. Millions.
    Mr. Bozzella. Yes. There----
    Senator Tillis. If we focus on that, would we more likely 
just see more chop shops filled with cars that were dated at a 
time that wouldn't take advantage of that technology, so we'd 
only be benefiting people that can buy a new car?
    Mr. Bozzella. Look, that's an issue, right?
    Senator Tillis. Yes.
    Mr. Bozzella. We've got to----
    Senator Tillis. The biggest.
    Mr. Bozzella [continuing]. Sort through the technology.
    Senator Tillis. I was the speaker of the house in North 
Carolina. We focused a lot on chop shops. They go after spare 
parts. They go take a car that's a little bit more dated. 
People are not buying cars as frequently now, with the economy 
going the way it's going. More people are buying used cars. I 
think you're going to always evolve your technology, but for us 
to think that that's a primary objective, to reduce 
carjackings, I think misses the point.
    The point here is we need to do a better job of bending the 
curve on crime. Carjacking is just one of them. Murdering 
police officers, making communities less safe, I think is where 
we should spend the majority of our time, and I always expect 
the industry to get more sophisticated. You're going to do that 
anyway, because it's going to make the product more attractive 
to the people who are going to buy the car, but not necessarily 
put you at the tip of the spear.
    Chief Garcia, to what extent, in Texas, do you think the 
fact that we had a fourfold increase in illegal crossings, and 
an unprecedented number of got-aways that are evading Border 
Patrol, has made Texas communities less safe?
    Chief Garcia. I'll say, Senator, obviously when we have the 
criminal element that is doing that, it makes us less safe. I 
will tell you that in the city of Dallas, we have far more 
citizens of the State of Texas, documented citizens that are 
committing crimes, more than undocumented. But having said 
that, one thing that we need to do, not just in the State of 
Texas but throughout the country--and there's other States, one 
that I came from, that need to do a far better job of holding 
individuals that have committed serious or violent crimes 
accountable that are here illegally. That is something that 
needs to get worked on.
    Senator Tillis. You know, I think that the concern I have, 
particularly for Hispanic communities or other ethnic 
communities, because we know that there are a number of people 
coming across the border from countries, actually, in the other 
hemisphere, but I think that the criminal element that crosses 
the border is most likely to go into communities that look like 
them and exploit those communities and make them less safe, 
much more so than my community, maybe. Do you agree with that?
    Chief Garcia. I would agree with that.
    Senator Tillis. Mr. Chair, I know that I'm the last one to 
speak, so I'm not going to take any more time. I may have some 
questions for the record. Thank you all for being here. It's a 
big panel, so there's no way I could get a question to every 
one of you. Thank you all. Thank you for your service.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Tillis. Senator Ossoff is 
online.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You'll have to 
forgive me. My time is brief, as I'm between a couple of 
meetings, but I wanted to make sure to address this issue. 
Sheriff Dart, Atlanta police have warned the public about bump 
and rob carjackings, where suspects purposefully bump into 
drivers to lure them out, attempt to steal their car. What is 
your guidance for drivers, in Georgia and across the country, 
who want to avoid this kind of attack, and what steps do you 
think communities can take in order to reduce the incidence?
    Sheriff Dart. Thank you, Senator. We put a list of things 
online and did a press conference announcing it, for people to 
make themselves less likely to be victimized. There's a slew of 
them, hitting all the different scenarios, but the one in 
particular that you bring up is very real. In that scenario, we 
have told people that, A, call 911--most people have their 
phone--but also try, if possible, go to well-lit areas, go to a 
police station if it happens to be close.
    But it's a very complex problem, because people feel as if 
they are going to then be subsequently charged for leaving the 
scene of an auto accident. So, calling local law enforcement 
right away is helpful. Well-lit areas, really helpful. But yes, 
they do need to move beyond that location where they're at, at 
that point, because they will be targeted.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Sheriff Dart. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman. I yield back.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Ossoff. Senator 
Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you. We've had some experience in 
Rhode Island with community violence prevention programs. One 
run by our center for nonviolence is called the Street Workers 
program, and it finds people who may have had some experience 
with street crime, and are certainly known and active in the 
community, and ties them up with the police department so that 
they can provide what you might call early warning systems and 
also, if it looks like something that is very provocative has 
taken place, to be able to reach out into the community and try 
to defuse tensions before further violence takes place.
    Our experience has been very successful. The Providence 
police swear by their relationship with the Street Workers 
program. I wanted to, I guess, Sheriff Dart, get your opinion 
on whether the positive experience that the Providence police 
have had with this sort of community nonviolence program has 
been replicated elsewhere. Are we an anomaly, or is this a 
fairly consistent pattern of success?
    Sheriff Dart. There's different variations of it, going by 
different names. In our area, there's one called Operation 
CeaseFire. It works well when you have that partnership. Some 
don't have that partnership with law enforcement. They're 
somewhat independent operators, and they would suggest that 
that is the only way they have credibility on the street, that 
if they're seen as working too close with police, then their 
sources will dry up and they won't be able to intervene.
    We've been doing a variation of that within our jail, where 
we work with people who we have identified as most likely to 
shoot or be shot. We work with them in the jail, and then when 
they leave, we connect them to community providers. We've had 
remarkable luck making sure that they're not shooting people or 
being shot themselves. But those interventions on the street 
are very critical.
    Historically, the data's been tricky. It's been tricky, 
because at times, sometimes people will look at the dip in 
crime in an area and say that was due to us, when there's many 
other factors. But we have found that those interventions, like 
you're talking, are phenomenal. The one where it's connected to 
police is really great. It's hard to get that connection, 
though.
    Senator Whitehouse. The other one that we've worked on, and 
that actually ended up in a Federal law because of a 
partnership with Senator Cornyn, was to look at people who are 
incarcerated--you mentioned people who are in jail--look at 
people who are incarcerated and prepare them better for release 
back into society, including things like medication-assisted 
treatment, if they have narcotics addiction problems. The 
result we saw from that was really profound, first in terms of 
less mortality from overdoses in that population. Huge drop, 
like 60, 70 percent.
    Just generally, when there's better accountability and 
better support for people going back into the community, it was 
associated, at least in Rhode Island, with lower crime rates, 
as well as these more specific statistics about less opioid 
overdose death. I just wonder if you had a comment on that, 
from your experience, as well.
    Sheriff Dart. We're doing the exact same thing, Senator, 
and I often will tell folks, when you're operating a jail, 
anything less than what you're talking about, what we do, you 
should get out of the business. You shouldn't be doing it. Two 
things. One, we train people who we identify at intake with 
opioid issues, and then we train them how to utilize Naloxone. 
When they leave, they get two Naloxone kits when they leave. 
They utilize it all the time, because when they come back into 
custody, frequently with us, we'll interview them and find out 
how often it was used. We connect people with, particularly, 
opioid issues with providers out in the community.
    The notion that someone who has all these issues and is 
brought into jail, when you know he's going back to the 
community he left--the notion that you just open the door and 
let him out that door and things are going to work out real 
well--it's the heart of the problem. We case manage people when 
they leave us, with that notion that that's how you bend this 
curve.
    The mental health component of it's the easier one, 
frankly, because we do real deep diagnosis at the front end, 
there, connect them with providers on the outside, and with it 
managing them, again, make sure they stay on their meds. We've 
seen a tremendous drop on recidivism coming back into the jail, 
and making the communities a lot safer. The program you're 
talking about in your community--it's the only way to go.
    Senator Whitehouse. I'd invite anybody else on the panel 
who wishes to respond to those comments, in the form of an 
answer to question for the record, to please feel free and do 
so. My time has expired. I would like to tell the Chairman that 
one of the things that we were unable to accomplish was to try 
to get additional support for the localities into which large 
numbers of people emerging from incarceration go.
    We have had maps in Rhode Island that show which zip code 
people are discharged to from our ACI, and as you'll imagine, 
it's not uniform across the State. Some zip codes have almost 
zero discharge. Some zip codes have phenomenally high discharge 
rates. It's not just following the individual into the 
communities. It's also supporting those communities as they 
deal with the fact that these discharges from the incarcerative 
system are not evenly spread. If we can work more on that, that 
I think would be--that's the one undone piece here.
    I thank you for the hearing, Chairman, and I thank 
everybody for participating. If you want to add something in 
the form of a response, written response, please feel free.
    Chair Durbin. I'd say to Senator Whitehouse, we could tell 
you in Chicago where they go, not exclusively, but to a large 
extent where ex-incarcerated tend to head home. Those 
communities, their churches and organizations that are trying 
to help them, are especially hard-pressed. We have so many 
wonderful groups. Mr. Bryant is here representing one of them, 
and I don't think you've had your day in court.
    [Laughter.]
    You haven't been able--I'd like you to conclude, if you 
will, because there's an aspect of what you're doing which kind 
of bridges some differences which we've heard in this 
Committee, because you're working not only in community 
intervention, but you're working with law enforcement in 
community intervention. Would you please make a record of that, 
again, if you would, please?
    Mr. Bryant. Yes. Yes, I would. When Communities Partner for 
Peace was started, one of our executive directors at our 
partner organization used to work for the Institute for the 
Study and Practice of Nonviolence in Rhode Island. His name is 
Teny Gross. And so----
    Senator Whitehouse. We know Teny well. You've got a hero on 
your----
    Mr. Bryant. Exactly. I would just say that, since the days 
of CeaseFire, we have vastly improved our relationship with law 
enforcement. Now it is true that guys who are working on the 
front lines, on the streets, with the highest-risk people 
should not interact with law enforcement, because it does 
reduce their credibility, but the people in management, people 
like myself, do coordinate with our law enforcement on a 
biweekly basis. We coordinate with city officials, county 
officials, State officials. We play a role in ensuring that 
that coordination is happening.
    I think the other thing that is worth pointing out is that, 
at our Metropolitan Peace Academy that I mentioned earlier, we 
train the outreach workers in a 144-hour curriculum, and that 
has also brought more credibility to the field of violence 
prevention, and it's allowed for more greater trust with law 
enforcement understanding our role, because they actually 
contribute to our curriculum. Then the last thing I'll say is 
that we created what we call a Community Training Academy, 
where it's a community-led training where citizens in a 
particular police district can host officers for a training, so 
that officers can see that community from the community's lens, 
and so they get to understand what are the assets in that 
community, who are the leaders in that community, and what are 
the challenges from the community's perspective, because, you 
know, we agree that we want more law enforcement, but we want 
better, fairer, more engaged law enforcement, and for them to 
realize that, as a citizen, when I interact with law 
enforcement, that is something that I probably will never 
forget. And so, understanding your role in the community is 
extremely important, but we have to rebuild that trust, and 
we're at a all-time low in Chicago, but it's something that we 
have to--we're going to be a part of the solution, to bring 
that back to bear.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Bryant. Thanks to all the 
witnesses. I think it was a good hearing. We learned a lot, and 
I hope you were able to teach us effectively and feel that you 
had a rewarding experience, as well. You helped us understand 
this complicated issue and how the Federal Government has a 
role in it and the State and local responsibilities, as well.
    My continued thanks to Ranking Member Grassley for working 
with me on this issue on a bipartisan basis. The hearing 
record's going to be open for a week for statements to be 
submitted. Questions for the record may be submitted by Members 
up to 5 p.m. on Tuesday, March 8th.
    Thanks again to the witnesses for coming. The hearing 
stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:07 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]

                            A P P E N D I X

Miscellaneous submissions:

 Act 4 Juvenile Justice, March 1, 2022............................   123

 National District Attorney's Association (NDAA), February 28, 
    2022..........................................................   126


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