    [Senate Hearing 117-883]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 117-883

                         FEDERAL SUPPORT FOR PREVENTING
                         AND RESPONDING TO CARJACKINGS

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                           COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                                 MARCH 1, 2022

                                   __________

                              Serial No. J-117-53

                                   __________

             Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                            www.judiciary.senate.gov
                                www.govinfo.gov
                                       _______

                     U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    56-564                     WASHINGTON : 2026

                           COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                       RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair
    PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont            CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa, Ranking
    DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California             Member
    SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
    AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             JOHN CORNYN, Texas
    CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
    RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      TED CRUZ, Texas
    MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              BEN SASSE, Nebraska
    CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
    ALEX PADILLA, California             TOM COTTON, Arkansas
    JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
                                         THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                         MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
                 Joseph Zogby, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
          Kolan L. Davis, Republican Chief Counsel and Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page

    Durbin, Hon. Richard J...........................................     1
    Grassley, Hon. Charles E.........................................     3
    Cornyn, Hon. John................................................     5

                                   WITNESSES

    Bozzella, John...................................................    14
        Prepared statement...........................................    42
        Responses to written questions...............................    89
    Bryant, Vaughn...................................................    10
        Prepared statement...........................................    47
        Responses to written questions...............................    93
    Dart, Thomas.....................................................     7
        Prepared statement...........................................    64
        Responses to written questions...............................    94
    Garcia, Edgardo..................................................    12
        Prepared statement...........................................    55
        Responses to written questions...............................   100
    Glawe, David J...................................................    16
        Prepared statement...........................................    67
        Questions submitted with no response returned................   105
    Herdman, Justin E................................................     8
        Prepared statement...........................................    85
        Responses to written questions...............................   116

                                    APPENDIX

    Items submitted for the record...................................    41

                         FEDERAL SUPPORT FOR PREVENTING
                         AND RESPONDING TO CARJACKINGS

                                  ----------

                             TUESDAY, MARCH 1, 2022

                                  United States Senate,
                                    Committee on the Judiciary,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice at 10:05 a.m., in
    Room 226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J.
    Durbin, Chair of the Committee, presiding.
        Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Whitehouse,
    Klobuchar, Coons, Blumenthal, Ossoff, Grassley, Cornyn, Cruz,
    Hawley, Tillis, and Blackburn.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,

               A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

        Chair Durbin. This meeting of the Senate Judiciary
    Committee will come to order, and I thank the witnesses for
    attending. A couple things I'd like to mention at the outset.
    First, we're all grieving with Senator Dianne Feinstein, who
    lost her husband, Richard Blum, Sunday night to cancer. It was
    a heroic battle for many years.
        He was an extraordinary person, certainly a success in
    business but took his wealth and used it to help others in a
    dramatic fashion. He was particularly smitten with the
    Himalayas and Dalai Lama, and he created the Himalayan
    Foundation to try to spare some of the people who live in that
    region the worst aspects of poverty. Richard was an exceptional
    man, and I know that Senator Feinstein is sad, as she should
    be, but we are happy to have known him and to have seen his
    vision of the world.
        Secondly, as everyone knows, I'm sure, President Biden
    announced his Supreme Court nominee last Friday. We submitted
    the Senate Judiciary Committee questionnaire to her and
    received the response last night. It's a lengthy questionnaire.
    It includes reference to 578 opinions that she handed down on
    the DC District Court. It's an ample display of her
    jurisprudence and her philosophy, which all Members now have a
    chance to look at, again, in detail; or at again, in detail. We
    last considered her less than a year ago in this same Committee
    for the circuit court position.
        Having said that, I'll read the opening statement for this
    hearing and thank all the witnesses for being here. Today our
    Committee is going to consider how our Federal Government can
    help prevent and respond to the surge in carjacking. Carjacking
    is a scourge. To be sitting in your car with your family and
    have a person stick a gun in your face and force you to get out
    so they can steal the car--that's a situation no American
    should have to face.
        Sheriff Tom Dart is here from Cook County. He's read the
    stories that I read regularly. One time, a young man, very
    young, with a gun got in a car and forced the driver out and
    drove away with the car. He was stopped. He was 11 years old.
    Eleven. This sort of thing is incredible.
        Experts have pointed to a number of factors that may have
    contributed to the increase in violent crime, including
    economic and social disruption by the pandemic and a large
    increase in firearm sales, but there is no evidence, none, that
    an increase in carjacking is due to any specific administration
    policy or due to bipartisan criminal justice reform legislation
    signed into law by President Donald Trump. In fact, of 9,000
    individuals released to home confinement under the CARES Act,
    only 8 have been returned to prison for committing a new crime,
    and only 1 for committing a violent crime.
        Let me be clear. The increase in carjacking started during
    the last administration and continues in this administration.
    It is impacting communities led by both Democratic and
    Republican elected officials. It is not a red problem, not a
    blue problem. It's an American problem.
        I've reached across the aisle to work on bipartisan
    solutions to protect the American people, like the Violence
    Against Women Act reauthorization, and I hope we can do that
    again on this issue. It's important to note that preventing and
    prosecuting violent crime is primarily a State and local
    responsibility, but there is an important role for the Federal
    Government.
        First, we need more information on the prevalence of this
    crime. We can't solve the problem if we don't understand it.
    That's why I've called for the FBI and Justice Department to
    begin nationwide data collection on carjacking. Last December,
    I held a Judiciary Committee field hearing in Chicago on
    preventing violent crime. I heard from U.S. Attorney John
    Lausch, who is a holdover from the previous administration,
    about some of the challenges in bringing Federal carjacking
    cases.
        Senator Grassley and I are working on bipartisan
    legislation to address it, but as we've learned in the--as in
    the so-called war on drugs, you can't incarcerate your way out
    of the problem. One important step may involve the auto
    industry, to collaborate with law enforcement on steps that
    will deter carjackers. Sheriff Dart brought this to my
    attention. I thank you, Tom. You've always been looking ahead
    to issues, and this was one that you spoke out on.
        In January, I wrote to the Department of Transportation and
    the auto industry to urge the development of uniform standards
    for swift law enforcement access to vehicle location tracking
    data in the crucial minutes after a carjacking. If they are
    more likely to get caught, and if there are higher barriers to
    selling a carjacked vehicle, potential carjackers may think
    twice. We also need to ensure that local law enforcement has
    the resources to fight carjacking.
        The American Rescue Plan, which Congress passed last year,
    included $350 billion to State and local governments. We made
    sure that part of the funding went to law enforcement and
    investing in community violence intervention programs.
    President Biden's budget request called for significant funding
    increasing for law enforcement groups like Byrne JAG and COPS
    grants. We must work together across the aisle to get the
    appropriations bill, still pending for this Fiscal Year which
    we're in, across the finish line. I hope we can do that soon,
    matter of days.
        We also need to ensure the President's well-qualified U.S.
    attorney and U.S. Marshal nominees are swiftly confirmed. Hard
    to imagine we have one Senator who's holding up U.S. attorneys
    and U.S. Marshals, on a random basis, because of some grievance
    he has over receiving a letter from the Department of Justice.
    That isn't fair to law enforcement, and it isn't fair to the
    communities that they would represent.
        We need to get to the root causes that would drive a young
    person to engage in carjacking, preventing trauma and helping
    kids deal with trauma they've experienced, improving social
    services, diverting children from criminal justice systems to
    programs that give them a chance. These kids, as bad as the
    stories are, came to the earth in the usual way, and their
    lives took a dramatic turn for the worse, and maybe through no
    fault of their own. I'm glad Vaughn Bryant from the
    Metropolitan Family Services in Chicago is here. It's a great
    organization. He's going to tell us about their efforts.
        Today, we'll hear from a distinguished panel of witnesses
    who will talk about Government, industry, and community leaders
    as part of the solution. I turn now to my friend and Ranking
    Member, Chuck Grassley.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES E. GRASSLEY,

                 A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF IOWA

        Senator Grassley. The first thing I would say, in regard to
    what Senator Durbin said about Senator Feinstein's loss of her
    husband, I would associate myself with his remarks, but I also
    personally know, in my working with her when she was Ranking
    Member of this Committee and I was Chairman, and also for even
    longer years of working with her as Co-Chairs of the Drug
    Caucus, that this has been a burden for her in recent years,
    and we can't help but have sympathy for what she's going
    through right now and what she has gone through. And I think
    it's appropriate, what you said.
        Then, in regard to Judge Jackson, I would like to speak to
    Republicans about that. One little aspect of that is that I
    don't know how many of our 50 Republicans want to have a
    meeting with Judge Jackson. I'm going to have my meeting with
    her, I think, on Wednesday, but other people, either through me
    or through your own actions, make sure that if you want to have
    a meeting, you say that early, so we don't get criticized for
    stringing people along just to stretch out what might be seen
    as not moving quickly enough. I think you ought to let the
    White House know if you want to meet with them.
        I thank you, Chairman Durbin, for holding this hearing.
    This is an important and serious topic, and Congress has an
    important role to play in combating the rise of violent crimes,
    and carjacking is just one of them. People often confuse
    carjacking with motor vehicle theft, but carjacking is much
    more dangerous. We're not talking about having a car stolen
    from some parking lot. We're talking about when someone uses
    violence or the threat of violence to take control of a car
    from someone else.
        For example, cars are being taken from parents at gunpoint
    while their child's still in the vehicle. A member of the
    Illinois legislature was in a car with her husband when masked
    men with guns ordered them out of their car. She begged them
    not to shoot her and her husband, and their lives were only
    saved when her husband returned fire.
        These carjackers form what are referred to as ``booster
    crews'' that have strategically figured out where to commit
    carjackings, how many to commit to the project so that they can
    overwhelm the local police, and which kind of cars to target.
    Highjacked cars are then being used by gangs and criminal
    organizations. They use fake license plates to disguise the
    cars and then use them as getaway cars to commit other crimes.
    Carjackings directly feed the nationwide surge in other crimes.
        The increase in this violent crime of carjacking is part of
    a very disturbing trend nationwide. Murders rose 30 percent in
    2020, and early data suggests murders rose again by at least
    10--10 percent in 2021. Of course, that's thousands of lives
    needlessly lost. Attacks on law enforcement are up. Police
    officers recorded the highest number of on-duty deaths in 2021
    since 1995, including the 9/11 attacks. Law enforcement groups
    nationwide are struggling to find high-quality local recruits
    to join their force.
        It's time to start looking for solutions to different parts
    of this crime wave. Operation Legend was extremely successful
    by providing Federal manpower in overwhelmed cities. Some, like
    Mayor Lightfoot of Chicago, have requested similar Federal
    resources. Productive--or proactive policing--I guess that's
    also productive policing, but proactive policing and increasing
    the number of available law enforcement officers are a part of
    the solution and an important part, but not the only part.
    Expanding the toolkit of Federal prosecutors could also be an
    effective resource and an effective response.
        I'm looking at expanding the reach of the Federal
    carjacking statute. Progressive prosecutors at the State level
    have told criminals that they won't get in trouble with certain
    crimes. Well, that won't fly with the Federal Government. This
    hearing on carjacking is a good start, and I look forward to
    more hearings on violent crime issues, such as violent crime
    against law enforcement and homicide spike. I look forward to
    focusing, as a body, on different areas of violent crime and
    how we in Congress can solve it.
        It is also critical that we exercise our important
    oversight authority of Federal agencies involved in monitoring
    and in reducing crime. Obviously, that's the Justice
    Department, for one. Congress needs to know if what the DOJ is
    currently doing is making enough of an impact on crime and
    safety. We also need oversight so that we can redirect
    misfocused energy and resources. Spending Government resources
    on the so-called iron pipeline, ghost guns, and lawful firearm
    dealers isn't going to help bring crime statistics down. These
    liberal priorities affect a tiny fraction of overall crimes. We
    should be pursuing policies that will actually make an impact
    on the massive crime surge. Thanks to our witnesses for being
    here today and the hard work you've put into your testimony.
        Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Grassley. We have six
    exceptional witnesses. Let me give you a brief introduction on
    the witnesses. The first one is Tom Dart, sheriff of Cook
    County, the elected sheriff of Cook County. He's served in that
    capacity since 2006. Prior to that, he was an assistant state's
    attorney in Cook County and a member of the Illinois House of
    Representatives. Earned his undergraduate degree from
    Providence College, his law degree from Loyola University of
    Chicago.
        Justin Herdman is the former U.S. attorney for the Northern
    District of Ohio; served as vice-chair of the Attorney
    General's Advisory Committee; currently a partner at Jones Day;
    specializes in Government investigation, criminal and civil
    litigation; currently serves as Judge Advocate in the U.S. Air
    Force Reserve; a graduate of Ohio University, University of
    Glasgow, and Harvard Law School.
        Vaughn Bryant, executive director of the Metropolitan Peace
    Initiatives in Chicago, part of the Metropolitan Family
    Services. At MPI, he oversees a team working with neighborhood
    and citywide organizations to coordinate and sustain
    comprehensive services to heal communities that have
    experienced gun violence. Vaughn Bryant has received his B.A.
    from Stanford, master's from Northwestern, previously served in
    managerial positions in the NFL, Chicago Public Schools, and
    Chicago Park District.
        I understand--I understand Senator Cornyn would like to
    introduce our next witness, Chief Eddie Garcia of the Dallas
    Police Department.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN CORNYN,

                 A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

        Senator Cornyn. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I'm
    happy to welcome Chief Garcia here to the Senate. We were
    together just last week, talking about the RIGHT Care
    initiative there in Dallas, where mental health professionals
    deploy with police officers and social workers to try to de-
    escalate people with mental health crises and divert them to
    appropriate treatment, as opposed to just simply putting them
    in jail.
        Chief Garcia spent 29 years as a patrol sergeant, night
    detective, and homicide investigator in San Jose before being
    appointed, in February of 2021 as the 30th police chief of the
    Dallas Police Department. He studied administration of justice
    at De Anza College in Cupertino, California and earned a
    bachelor of science degree in criminal justice management from
    Union Institute & University. In his three decades of serving
    and protecting our streets, Chief Garcia has built a reputation
    as one who leads by example. He considers himself a blue-collar
    chief who regularly patrols with new recruits and young
    officers.
        Since his appointment, Chief Garcia has focused on reducing
    violent crime in Dallas and has had measurable success. Under
    his leadership, Dallas police have strategically engaged
    specific high-crime communities, focusing on the most serious
    and violent offenses. As a result, Dallas has recently seen a
    significant reduction in crime, in both high-crime areas and in
    the city overall. Since May 2021, the city's murder rate has
    dropped by 27 percent, aggravated assaults by 6 and a half
    percent, robberies by 28 percent, and overall violent crime by
    13 percent.
        These statistics speak for themselves. While other cities
    are experiencing spiking crime waves that they've not seen in
    30 years, I'm proud of the good work that the Chief has done in
    the Dallas Police Department, along with the mayor and the city
    council there in Dallas, to promote smart policing and public
    safety.
        Sometimes we refer to the States as the laboratories of
    democracy. That's what Justice Brandeis referred to. But I
    think the cities can be, also, laboratories where we can
    demonstrate what works and what doesn't work, and I think
    there's a lot to learn, a lot the rest of the country could
    learn from the leadership of Chief Garcia and the Dallas
    police. While some other major cities have succumbed to the
    siren calls of defunding the police, Dallas took the opposite
    approach, increasing funding and support for the department and
    police officers.
        Before I turn the floor over to him, I want to thank you,
    Chief, for your presence here today, as well as all of the
    other witnesses. I want to thank you for your service and your
    testimony. State and Federal collaboration is vital as we seek
    to address the issues of violent crime in America, and we could
    not do our jobs without our State law enforcement officers'
    service to our communities.
        My staff reminds me that one of the components that we've
    used at the Federal level, through the Attorney General's
    Office, is the Project Safe Neighborhoods effort to get felons
    in possession off the streets and to prosecute violent gun
    crime, which I know has been--has been contributing to some of
    the success in Dallas. Thank you for being here, and thanks to
    all of the witnesses for being here, and for your contribution
    for our efforts to try to address these serious public safety
    concerns. Thanks.
        Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Cornyn. John Bozzella is the
    president and CEO of the Alliance for Automotive Innovation;
    previously served as president and CEO of the Association of
    Global Automakers after holding senior positions with Ford and
    Chrysler. Prior to joining the automotive industry, Mr.
    Bozzella served as New York City's director of State
    Legislative Affairs, began his career in public policy as
    director of legislative and political action for the United
    Federation of Teachers, and a graduate of Cornell University.
        David Glawe is president and CEO of the National Insurance
    Crime Bureau. He previously served as Under Secretary of
    Homeland Security for Intelligence and Analysis and, before
    that, as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director
    for Homeland Security at the White House. Served as special
    agent with the FBI, including as a supervisory special agent in
    the Counterterrorism Division, before that as an agent with the
    U.S. Postal Inspection Service and as a police officer in
    Houston, Texas, and Aurora, Colorado.
        I thank the witnesses for coming here today. The mechanics
    are pretty straightforward in this Committee. We'll swear in
    the witnesses. Each has 5 minutes for an opening statement.
    Then each Senator will have 5 minutes to ask questions. So,
    first let me ask the witnesses to please stand and raise their
    right hand.
        [Witnesses are sworn in.]
        Chair Durbin. Let the record reflect that the witnesses
    have answered in the affirmative, so we're going to let them
    proceed. Our first witness is Sheriff Tom Dart.

                   STATEMENT OF THOMAS DART, SHERIFF,

            COOK COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE, CHICAGO, ILLINOIS

        Sheriff Dart. Thank you so much, Senator. Good morning,
    Senator and Ranking Member Grassley and Members of the
    Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I
    firmly believe there are tangible ways local law enforcement,
    the Federal Government, and the auto industry can work together
    toward real solutions that will stop the disturbing rise in
    carjackings.
        I am the sheriff of Cook County, Illinois, which includes
    Chicago and more than 130 suburbs. In our community,
    carjackings have increased at an alarming rate. In Chicago,
    they tripled over the last decade. Just last year, there were
    more than 2,000 carjackings, or about one every 4 hours.
        This isn't just a Chicago issue. New York City has
    quadrupled in the last 3 years, Philadelphia incidents are up
    nearly 300 percent since 2015, and here in the District of
    Columbia, carjackings have almost tripled in the past 2 years.
    Anyone in a car is a potential victim: you, your spouse, your
    children, your parents, and, yes, even lawmakers. As Senator
    Grassley mentioned earlier, a State senator from Illinois,
    Kimberly Lightford--she was carjacked. Pennsylvania
    Congresswoman Mary Gay Scanlon was carjacked, as well.
        The crime can happen at any time. One victim in Chicago
    told us that she was performing the common winter chore of
    brushing snow off her Toyota Camry when two men approached,
    pointed a gun, and demanded her keys. In another case, a
    retired Air Force physician stopped at a gas station in a
    Chicago suburb. A carjacker grabbed her car door, put a gun to
    her head, and demanded she get out. A struggle ensued. The
    offender violently pulled her from the driver's seat, threw her
    to the ground, and kicked her multiple times before speeding
    off in broad daylight.
        These two women are among the more than 4,000 victims in
    Cook County since 2020. I can give you that number because our
    office has catalogued and analyzed nearly 4,000 carjacking
    events since 2020. We've done a deep dive in the methods and
    tactics of the offenders. With the valuable assistance of the
    Chicago Police Department and the FBI, we have begun to
    understand the motivation behind this crime and ways to address
    it, but regardless of whether the motive is for assisting in
    committing another crime or for resale, one thing is certain.
    The key to successful apprehension and prosecution is
    recovering the vehicles quickly.
        One of the most effective tools available is manufacturer-
    installed geolocation equipment, commonly available in most
    vehicles built after 2015, but while some manufacturers are
    very helpful, others can be reluctant or unwilling to track
    carjacked vehicles. It is often not clear who to call to get
    information, and some auto companies have limited hours.
    Sometimes, staff are poorly trained and demand we obtain
    warrants which are clearly not relevant. In egregious cases,
    the companies require customers to pay an upcharge to initiate
    the tracking of the car which was just stolen from them.
        The Air Force veteran, I mentioned earlier, tried to get
    her vehicle tracked through the manufacturer, with no success.
    After my office got involved, it still took nearly 2 days to
    get the vehicle's location, and while it was at large, the car
    was used in at least two other crimes, including another
    carjacking at gunpoint. We believe auto manufacturers can be a
    great ally in this battle. They already innovated the
    technologies needed to track the stolen vehicles.Now, they must
    lead the way in developing a system to communicate, in a
    consistent way, with responding law enforcement.
        Just a few weeks ago, we had a great example of how the
    system should work. After a Chicago woman was carjacked, she
    initially had problems getting it tracked. Our office was able
    to coordinate a call with her and Toyota, for her to grant our
    office permission to track the vehicle--after having to pay $8,
    though. Once the location was established, we were able to
    quickly and safely recover her vehicle.
        In December, I wrote to major auto manufacturers, to raise
    this issue and suggest a single, 24/7 phone number police could
    use to get tracking data quickly and legally on any hijacked
    vehicle. We've had some promising discussions since then.
    General Motors' OnStar has been very receptive to our requests
    and initiated the development of a streamlined communication
    system. Also, we've had substantive conversations with the
    Alliance for Automotive Innovation, as well. Though talks are
    ongoing, the Alliance has indicated willingness to work toward
    sustainable solutions, but time is of the essence.
        This is a crime that has real economic impact. Central
    business districts in major cities across the Nation are
    experiencing a slower-than-expected post-pandemic rebound, in
    part because diners and shoppers are afraid because of being
    carjacked. This is certainly the case in Chicago. Chairman
    Durbin understands this. He is urging the U.S. Department of
    Transportation to work with the auto industry to increase
    police access to tracking data, and he's encouraged the FBI and
    Bureau of Justice Statistics to improve data collection.
        Make no mistake. This is a violent crime, done primarily to
    obtain an anonymous car to commit more acts of violence,
    frequently shootings. Carjackings are reasonably easy to commit
    and difficult for us to prosecute. I'm a former prosecutor, and
    I can tell you firsthand, the quicker we can get that vehicle,
    the less chance it will be used in another crime, and the more
    likely we'll be able to convict somebody. The longer it takes,
    the less likely we can convict anyone. Thank you so much for
    the opportunity to speak to you today.
        [The prepared statement of Sheriff Dart appears as a
    submission for the record.]
        Chair Durbin. Thanks, Sheriff. Mr. Herdman.

                    STATEMENT OF JUSTIN E. HERDMAN,

                 FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, CLEVELAND, OHIO

        Mr. Herdman. Good morning. Thank you, Senator Durbin. Thank
    you, Senator Grassley. Thanks to the Committee for the
    opportunity to speak to you today on the vital issue of Federal
    responses to carjacking.
        My name is Justin Herdman, and from 2017 until early 2021,
    I served as the United States attorney for the Northern
    District of Ohio, which is comprised of Ohio's 40 northernmost
    counties, including my hometown of Cleveland. Unfortunately,
    violent crime has increasingly touched all types of communities
    over the past several years, but it is in our major cities
    where the most profound violent crime problems continue to
    plague our Nation. While many of these cases are best
    prosecuted on the local level, there are certain categories of
    violent crime that call for a heightened Federal prosecutorial
    response. Within the past several years, I have seen a greater
    need for expansion of Federal law enforcement activity and
    overall will to prosecute carjacking.
        Let me first offer a view from my seat as a U.S. attorney
    in Cleveland. The city has witnessed a recent surge in all
    violent crime, but carjacking increased at a particularly
    alarming rate. Based on publicly available data, Cleveland
    experienced 285 carjackings in 2019. This number shot up to 355
    in 2020, an increase of 25 percent, and went up to 433
    carjackings in 2021. Thus, the overall number of carjackings in
    2021 was over 50 percent higher than it was just 2 years
    before, with a carjacking being committed, on average, more
    than once per day.
        Obviously, behind each of these frightening numbers are
    victims who are forever changed by the crimes committed against
    them. In the summer of 2020, I highlighted one such case when
    we announced the expansion of Operation Legend, a comprehensive
    Federal law enforcement initiative, to the city of Cleveland.
        On the night of May 25th, 2020, 17-year-old Eric Hakizimana
    was returning home from soccer practice when he was senselessly
    murdered in a carjacking. Eric's family had fled to Cleveland
    as refugees from war-torn Congo, only to see their son murdered
    during a violent takeover of his vehicle. On New Year's Eve
    this past year, 25-year-old Shane Bartek, an off-duty Cleveland
    policeman, was shot and killed during a carjacking. The
    individuals arrested in that incident had numerous prior
    arrests for vehicle-related thefts and robberies.
        These two tragic cases are among hundreds of other
    carjacking offenses committed in Cleveland that, while not
    always involving injury or death, still pose outsized risks to
    the public. The reason for this is fairly obvious. Any robbery
    involves the use of force and, therefore, is a serious violent
    crime, but here, the object that is being taken is itself in
    motion and poses a variety of dangers. This fact requires the
    perpetrator to act quickly, with an overwhelming display or use
    of force, in order to obtain compliance from the victim. Based
    on my experience as U.S. attorney, I believe that the
    likelihood of force actually being used in a carjacking is much
    higher than in other violent crimes, which makes this a
    particularly pernicious form of offense.
        Carjacking is also a facilitation crime. While there are
    clearly many examples of the robbery being committed for the
    purposes of, quote, ``joyriding,'' in my experience, the
    vehicle that has been carjacked is most likely to be used for
    committing additional violent crimes, most notably premeditated
    shootings or aggravated robberies. This fact also means that
    carjackings tend to be committed in serial fashion, usually by
    more than one person.
        One last general point that I would offer for the Committee
    involves the presence of juvenile offenders in committing these
    crimes. For instance, in March of last year, a group of 10
    teenagers, ranging in age from 14 to 19 years old, were
    arrested for a series of 30 armed carjackings and other violent
    robberies in Cleveland.
        Now, for purposes of fashioning effective Federal responses
    to the crime of carjacking, I offer the following specific
    suggestions. First, the addition of a conspiracy offense to the
    Federal carjacking statute, which is Title 18, Section 2119.
    This would allow for an appropriate expansion of Federal
    prosecutions aimed at preventing carjackings before they occur.
    Second, prioritizing carjacking responses in the current
    planning for violent crime reduction by Federal investigative
    agencies, especially in violent crime task forces that are
    staffed by Federal, State, and local law enforcement. I would
    also encourage a similar planning process to be undertaken
    nationwide by the Department of Justice, in order to identify
    assets and resources that could be deployed to assist cities
    dealing with a rash of carjackings.
        Third, and related to what I've just said, I think it'd be
    very important to develop a nationwide best practices for
    carjacking response investigations that could be provided to
    every big-city patrol officer and detective. Fourth, the issue
    of juvenile offenders is one that does not necessarily weigh in
    favor of expanded Federal prosecution. The prosecution of
    juvenile carjacking offenders will continue to be handled
    primarily by State and local authorities. But since many of the
    most violent juvenile offenders will have had prior contact
    with the criminal justice system, there is a place for smart
    screening of the highest-risk offenders, ensuring there are
    robust reentry and rehabilitation services available to those
    youth.
        Once again, I thank the Committee for an opportunity to
    address this critical issue of national importance. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Herdman appears as a
    submission for the record.]
        Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Herdman. Mr. Bryant.

                 STATEMENT OF VAUGHN BRYANT, EXECUTIVE

               DIRECTOR, METROPOLITAN PEACE INITIATIVES,

            METROPOLITAN FAMILY SERVICES, CHICAGO, ILLINOIS

        Mr. Bryant. Good morning, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member
    Grassley, and Members of the Committee. My name is Vaughn
    Bryant. I am the executive director of Metropolitan Peace
    Initiatives, a division of Metropolitan Family Services.
    Metropolitan Family Services has helped Chicago families meet
    the hardships of poverty, epidemics, natural disasters, world
    wars, and economic downturns since 1857. In 2016, we formed
    Metropolitan Peace Initiatives to put power in communities'
    hands and engage residents to participate in the solution of
    gun violence.
        I came to this work having grown up in Detroit, Michigan. I
    am the son of a Detroit police officer. I am the product of the
    Police Athletic League, where police officers coached me in
    football and basketball and baseball before I became a fourth-
    round draft pick in the NFL draft in 1994. I have spent half my
    professional career in service to communities and working in
    partnership with law enforcement. It is my privilege to
    introduce to you the Metropolitan Peace Initiatives, which
    coordinates, supports, and sustains a cross-agency community
    safety infrastructure, made up of local, community-based
    organizations rooted in the most violent areas in the city of
    Chicago.
        For the first time in Chicago's history, organizations with
    proven violence prevention outcomes across the city's
    geographies have come together to build a necessary community
    infrastructure dedicated to preventing violence and delivering
    a comprehensive set of services to heal communities at highest
    risk for violence and provide opportunities for individual
    rehabilitation. Chicago's fast-escalating violence in 2016,
    which saw 762 individuals killed by guns and 400--4,580
    individuals shot, an increase of 58 and 47 percent,
    respectively, along with the unrest related to the murder of
    Laquan McDonald, demanded a new approach. This led a group of
    local leaders to establish Communities Partnering for Peace,
    which we call CP4P.
        CP4P began in partnership with eight community-based
    organizations to reduce violence in nine of the most violent
    neighborhoods in Chicago. Today, it includes 14 partner
    agencies active in 28 Chicago communities. The program targets
    individuals at most risk for perpetuating violence or being a
    victim and provides intervention by trained street outreach
    workers, who engage individuals with high likelihood to be
    shot--to shoot or be shot and create peace and non-aggression
    agreements, provide case management services to address any
    social determinants of health, community-based events that we
    hold three times a week in the summertime, once a month, fall,
    winter, spring.
        We also administered a Metropolitan Peace Academy, a
    multidisciplinary platform that provides trainings to
    professionalize and strengthen the field of street outreach and
    community violence prevention. It features an 18-week, 144-hour
    intensive curriculum, shaped and taught by street outreach
    workers and guided by 14 professional standards. Since the
    start of CP4P in July 2017, shootings and homicides declined an
    average of 1 percent per month in our target areas, where our
    shootings and homicides were increasing 2 percent per month
    before CP4P. This led to an overall reduction of 17.7 percent,
    on average, in the number of homicides and shootings per month
    in the first 30 months of operation. This is all, obviously,
    pre-COVID numbers.
        According to the city of Chicago's Office of Violence
    Prevention dashboard, there have been roughly 2,000 vehicular
    hijacking victimizations in Chicago since January 2021. We saw
    a slight drop in carjackings in the wards we served; however,
    we did not get the funding to formalize the initiative and
    properly evaluate the impact. We funded three different
    organizations to work across 16 wards on a carjacking
    initiative, but it's something that we would love to carry
    forward, moving forward.
        A history of slavery, convict leasing, Jim Crow, housing
    discrimination, mass incarceration has taken its toll. Chicago
    remains one of the most segregated cities in the United States.
    Public trust in our institutions continues to suffer because of
    bad actors such as police commander Jon Burge, found guilty of
    torturing approximately 120 people and coercing confessions.
    Operation Greylord is an FBI case where 92 officials faced
    indictment, and many convicted, including Judge Tom Maloney,
    for taking bribes for fixing murder cases. The recent shootings
    of Laquan McDonald, Anthony Alvarez, and Adam Toledo have
    police-community relations at an all-time low.
        Recognizing that any successful approach to crime reduction
    includes both violence prevention and trusted community
    partners with law enforcement, CP4P created the Community
    Training Academy, along with the Chicago Police Department and
    community-based organizations. Let's see. The Community
    Training Academy provides a curriculum for community-based and
    community-specific trainings for probationary officers and
    district coordination officers and officers recently
    transferring to a district. Through a 24-hour curriculum, every
    police district learns to apply a hyperlocal lens to
    communities they serve.
        To date, we have trained 100 officers, across eight police
    districts, since October 2020. Based on our survey results, 95
    percent of the officers have had a positive experience in the
    training and recommend all CPD officers complete the training.
    Additionally, CP4P meets on a bimonthly--bimonthly basis with
    local police commanders to identify local violent hotspots,
    coordinate interventions, and address quality-of-life issues.
        Law enforcement cannot provide the healing that comes from
    social service support and interventions but can work in tandem
    with the violence prevention infrastructure that provides
    options to steer youth in alternative directions. CP4P's
    community-based infrastructure is a vital part of a larger,
    necessary crime reduction ecosystem. As you consider ways the
    Federal Government can address issues of violent crime,
    sustainable funding that brings violence prevention to scale
    must be a part of the solution.
        Thank you for your time today. I look forward to answering
    any questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Bryant appears as a
    submission for the record.]
        Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Bryant. Chief Garcia, Would
    you make sure you're on? There we go.

                 STATEMENT OF EDGARDO ``EDDIE'' GARCIA,

                 CHIEF, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT, MAJOR

                CITIES CHIEFS ASSOCIATION, DALLAS, TEXAS

        Chief Garcia. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Grassley, and
    distinguished Members of the Committee, thank you for the
    opportunity to participate in today's hearing. I appear before
    you today as the chief of police of Dallas, Texas. It is also
    my privilege to testify on behalf of Major Cities Chiefs
    Association.
        We're here today to discuss the rise in carjackings
    occurring throughout the country. This trend is part of a
    larger increase in violent crime, which has disproportionately
    impacted MCCA members. Despite immense challenges, our brave
    officers continue to work tirelessly to keep our communities
    safe. The most recent MCCA violent crime report clearly shows
    that America is in the midst of a violent crime wave. In major
    cities nationwide, homicides in 2021 were up approximately 49--
    approximately 49 percent compared to 2019 and 53 percent
    compared to 2018.
        Like other types of violent crime, carjacking has continued
    to rise. In several cities, the rates have more than doubled
    over the past few years. A few factors are driving this
    increase. These include financial gain, but mostly to further
    other criminal violent activity. Many of these carjackings are
    also committed by juveniles seeking to gain notoriety on social
    media or as part of gang initiations.
        Identifying and preventing this act of violence before it
    occurs and holding these individuals accountable is the best
    course of action. Despite the rise in crime, violent and
    chronic offenders continue to cycle through the criminal
    justice system. DAs, at times, are reluctant to prosecute
    certain crimes, including some violent and gun crimes, and
    judges continue to release violent and repeat offenders
    pretrial. These challenges extend to juvenile offenders, as
    well.
        Make no mistake, please. The general lack of accountability
    nationwide is contributing to the increase in violent crime and
    carjacking. Recruitment and retention remain challenging, and
    understaffing has contributed to officer burnout. At the
    executive level, since January 2020, more than half of MCCA's
    member agencies have also experienced a change in leadership.
    Such frequent turnover is detrimental to public safety overall
    and can make it incredibly difficult to institute reform or
    culture change.
        The current outlook in Dallas is not akin to other major
    cities, and while some other cities have seen record homicides,
    my city has experienced a decrease, and it's not by chance. The
    reduction in violent crime we've seen in Dallas would not be
    possible without the support of our city government, the
    exemplary work of the men and women and staff of the Dallas
    Police Department and criminologists from the University of
    Texas, San Antonio. I'd like to take a moment to use this
    platform to publicly thank them and their sacrifice for the
    incredible work that they do every day to keep the residents of
    the city of Dallas safe.
        Our crime-fighting strategy is centered on a violent crime
    reduction plan. The plan relies heavily on science and crime
    data and was developed in conjunction with criminologists Dr.
    Mike Smith and Dr. Rob Tillyer from the University of Texas,
    San Antonio. The short-term strategies of the plan focus on
    hotspots policings. Based on crime analysis and mapping, we've
    broken the city down into approximately 101,000 microgrids and
    deployed a highly visible presence to 50 of those crime grids.
    These 50 represent approximately 10 percent of the city's total
    violent crime. This mix of engagement and enforcement with our
    community has driven down violent crime in these grids by 50
    percent and, ultimately, violent crime as a whole citywide.
        The plan's midterm strategies consist of place network
    investigations. Dallas PD worked with other stakeholders to mix
    traditional law enforcement actions with other efforts on
    locations' criminogenic nature by strengthening the
    neighborhood and re-investing in the community. The longer-term
    strategies included in the plan emphasize focused deterrence to
    change behavior of high-risk offenders. These efforts include
    the provision of services, community violence interventions,
    and, when necessary, enforcement action.
        Violent crime in Dallas decreased in 2021 and is down
    roughly 17 percent again, year to date. Given the successes of
    the work of the men and women of the Dallas Police Department,
    I strongly encourage fellow chiefs to work, in conjunction with
    criminologists, to develop their own violent crime plan that
    meets the unique needs of their community. Many MCCA members
    are already working with our Federal partners to address
    violent crime and carjacking. These efforts should be expanded.
        Victim services, as well as programs such as Project Safe
    Neighborhoods, will be critical and must be adequately
    resourced. MCCA members have found pursuing Federal charges for
    violent criminals to be a successful strategy and a powerful
    deterrent. To support these efforts, Congress must help build
    capacity of the U.S. Attorney's Office to support additional
    prosecutions as appropriate. Proactive policing is critical and
    will be key to reducing violent crime overall, which will help
    drive down carjackings.
        Unfortunately, proactive policing in some cities has become
    a luxury, especially for local police departments contending
    with high murder rates, low staffing, and low morale. Law
    enforcement needs more resources to bolster its response to
    violent crime. Much of the recent Federal assistance provided
    to localities is not being used for law enforcement purposes.
    Congress should strongly consider providing additional
    assistance and must fully fund important grants such as COPS
    and the Byrne JAG.
        Continuing anti-law enforcement rhetoric has left honorable
    officers feeling vilified and criminals, offenders often
    bolstered. Support for law enforcement from our elected leaders
    has never been more vital. The support of the mayor and the
    city council have been integral in Dallas's efforts to reduce
    violent crime. Reform and proactive public safety are not
    mutually exclusive, and without the support of the work and
    sacrifices of our men and women, no plan will be successful.
        In closing, the successes we've had reducing violent crime
    in Dallas demonstrates how our communities are safer and more
    prosperous when investments are made, police officers are
    supported, and stakeholders work together. I look forward to
    any questions the Committee may have. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Chief Garcia appears as a
    submission for the record.]
        Chair Durbin. Thanks, Chief. Mr. Bozzella.

                 STATEMENT OF JOHN BOZZELLA, PRESIDENT

                 AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, ALLIANCE

               FOR AUTOMOTIVE INNOVATION, WASHINGTON, DC

        Mr. Bozzella. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Grassley, and
    distinguished Members of the Committee, on behalf of the
    Alliance for Automotive Innovation and our members, I thank you
    for the opportunity to appear today to share my perspective on
    the troubling rise in carjackings, and the auto industry's work
    to be a constructive force in the broader efforts to address
    this challenge. Despite vehicles incorporating increasingly
    advanced safety features every year, over the past 2 years,
    roadway fatalities have increased dramatically. According to
    the latest data, the first 9 months of 2021 saw a 12 percent
    increase compared to the same period in 2020.
        We look forward to continuing engagement with the
    administration on a safe systems approach to improving safety
    on our roadways. This model, which acknowledges a shared
    responsibility and promotes a holistic approach to safety, may
    offer a guide for examining other complex challenges.
        Another disturbing trend over the past 2 years has been the
    increase in carjacking across the United States. I came to
    appreciate the full scope of this challenge, following outreach
    to our members from Sheriff Dart of Cook County, Illinois, to
    request assistance in addressing the rise in carjackings,
    including tracking these vehicles in real time. We quickly
    engaged with Sheriff Dart and his team to better understand
    their challenges and concerns. We also brought together our
    entire membership to take a deeper look at this issue.
        Over the past 2 months, our members have been meeting
    almost weekly to examine potential opportunities to improve
    collaboration with law enforcement. I want to take a moment to
    share my appreciation for the efforts of Sheriff Dart and his
    staff, along with you and your team, Mr. Chairman, and others,
    to elevate this important conversation. Clearly, the sharing of
    location information with anyone, including law enforcement,
    needs to be appropriately balanced with consumer privacy. The
    auto industry takes this seriously and, in 2014, came together
    to commit to a first-of-its-kind set of privacy principles.
        Those principles prohibit an automaker from sharing vehicle
    location information with any unaffiliated third party without
    affirmative consent of the vehicle owner. The principles
    specifically permit the sharing of vehicle location information
    with law enforcement in the absence of affirmative consent, if
    law enforcement has obtained a warrant, or other court order,
    to access the local--location information or in an exigent
    circumstance. This is a complex issue and one we take
    seriously.
        While the discussions with our members are ongoing, I can
    share a number of guiding principles as we work together on
    this important and complex topic. First, there is a variation
    in capabilities among automakers. We quickly learned this.
    While we are not privy to each OEM's, specific capabilities, we
    understand there is substantial variation between OEMs as well
    as variation in capability within some automakers. So while
    it's true that many modern vehicles have connectivity
    capability that may allow them to be located, it is not
    universally the case.
        Second, law enforcement verification. Another topic that
    emerged in our conversations with our members is the importance
    of verifying that a request for vehicle location information
    from law enforcement is, in fact, a legitimate request related
    to an active carjacking. Third, exigent circumstances
    determination. In addition to verifying that legitimate request
    from law enforcement, appropriate consideration must also be
    afforded to defining an exigent circumstance in the context of
    carjacking.
        Is it any case where a vehicle is stolen by force? Does it
    only apply in a circumstance where the theft places the owner
    or a passenger in imminent danger? At a minimum, we feel there
    should be a process to certify that there are exigent
    circumstances which make it impossible or impractical for law
    enforcement to obtain either the consent of the vehicle owner
    or a warrant or court order.
        Fourth, exposure to liability. Finally, as I'm sure Members
    of this Committee can appreciate, the sharing of real-time
    location information with law enforcement is a sensitive topic
    and may expose an automaker to liability, and thus should be
    taken into account when evaluating different policy or
    technical solutions to the problem. The auto industry is
    committed to remaining a constructive partner in the collective
    effort needed to address this challenge. Much like our work
    with DOT on safe systems, we look forward to continuing to
    examine ways in which we can support a similarly holistic
    approach to addressing this challenge. I want to recognize the
    Chairman and Ranking Member and Members of this Committee for
    continuing this critical conversation.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Bozzella appears as a
    submission for the record.]
        Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Bozzella. Mr. Glawe.

                 STATEMENT OF DAVID J. GLAWE, PRESIDENT

                 AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, NATIONAL

             INSURANCE CRIME BUREAU, DES PLAINES, ILLINOIS

        Mr. Glawe. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Grassley,
    Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to
    testify on behalf of the National Insurance Crime Bureau and
    holding this important hearing. I'm the president and chief
    executive officer, headquartered in Des Plaines, Illinois.
        NICB has been in existence since 1912. We are the Nation's
    premier not-for-profit organization exclusively dedicated to
    leading a united effort to combat and prevent insurance crime
    through intelligence-driven operations. NICB sits at the
    intersection between law enforcement and the insurance
    industry. We are uniquely situated to serve as the information-
    sharing hub for the Government and private sector and provide
    operational support in identifying, preventing, and deterring
    insurance-related crimes.
        On a daily basis, NICB's approximately 400 employees work
    closely with domestic and international law enforcement
    partners, Government agencies, and prosecutors throughout the
    country to fulfill its mission. NICB has unique expertise with
    auto theft investigations, particularly relating to
    identification and recoveries. Some of the seminal cases in
    which NICB provided critical assistance include the 1993 World
    Trade Center bombing, the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, the
    September 11th attacks, and the 2020 Nashville Christmas Day
    bombing.
        Regarding today's topic, the country is facing an
    unprecedented rise in vehicle thefts and carjackings. The data
    is explained in my written statement and highlights the
    disturbing trend. The States with the worst car theft trends
    between 2019 and 2021 include Colorado, a 79 percent increase;
    Wisconsin, a 74 percent increase; the State of New York, a 59
    percent increase; and DC, a 52 percent increase.
        As for the carjacking numbers, they are simply staggering.
    Cities with the worst carjacking trends between 2019 and 2021
    are the following: New York City, a 286 percent increase;
    Philadelphia, a 238 percent increase; Chicago, a 207 percent
    increase; DC, a 200 percent increase; and New Orleans, 159
    percent increase. A disturbing subplot to these bleak numbers
    is that many carjackings are often committed in furtherance of
    other serious violent crimes, and many carjackings are
    committed by juveniles, some as young as 11 years old. As one
    admitted Chicago carjacker put it, ``The number one reason kids
    are committing carjackings is to carry out drive-by
    shootings.''
        NICB partners directly with Federal and local law
    enforcement to resolve these cases. For example, in April 2021,
    NICB assisted with the multiregional Auto Theft Task Force in
    the State of New York. NICB provided the task force with an
    undercover bait car and operational funds for law enforcement
    equipment. Since NICB's involvement, 33 individuals have been
    arrested.
        NICB appreciates the Committee's focus on these serious
    problems. Based on our unique position and partnership with law
    enforcement across the country, we believe there are several
    measures that can be taken at both the State and Federal level.
    They include, first, increasing community policing programs.
    Reducing police presence in communities across the country is
    not the answer. Whether through the Federal COPS program or
    other measures, we need more community policing, not less.
        Second, revisit well-intentioned criminal justice reform
    policies. The First Step Act of 2018, championed by Chairman
    Durbin and Ranking Member Grassley and other Members of this
    Committee, represented a monumental achievement for criminal
    justice reform; however, reforms in some jurisdictions may have
    gone too far. Criminal justice reform must be balanced with the
    need to protect victims of crime and the overall safety of our
    communities.
        Third, enforce the laws as written. In many jurisdictions,
    the law provides appropriate penalties; however, some
    enforcement or reform policies have effectively nullified these
    laws, providing little deterrence for criminals to commit these
    serious offenses. Fourth, focus on violent offenders. It is no
    surprise that the most violent offenders commit the majority of
    serious crimes. Law enforcement should focus efforts on violent
    offenders through programs that prioritize enforcement efforts
    on the most serious offenders, such as the Project Safe
    Neighborhoods.
        Fifth, collect data on carjackings. The Committee should
    consider directing the FBI to collect national, State, and
    local carjacking statistics and analyze any connection between
    vehicle thefts and carjackings to other violent crime. Finally,
    identify and implement successful early intervention programs.
    Given the high incidence of juvenile offenders involved in
    carjackings and vehicle thefts, another important tool is early
    intervention programs targeting at-risk youths.
        Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Grassley, and Members of
    the Committee, thank you again for the opportunity to be here
    today. I'm happy to answer any questions you have.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Glawe appears as a
    submission for the record.]
        Chair Durbin. Thanks, Mr. Glawe. I'm going to start the
    questions. I have two questions I'm going to try to get in
    here, but I don't know if I can do it in 5 minutes.
        The first question is privacy, Sheriff Dart, and I think
    that Mr. Bozzella raised a good point. We all know that there
    are circumstances where there may be a dispute as to ownership
    of a car, maybe a testy divorce proceeding or whatever it
    happens to be, and the automobile manufacturers certainly want
    to cooperate with legitimate law enforcement but don't want to
    get caught in a tangle that leaves them open to liability.
    That's my first question, and I'll come to you in just a minute
    to start the answer.
        The second question, Mr. Glawe, I asked the CEO of
    Walgreens, ``Why is underarm deodorant under lock and key in
    your stores, of all the things you sell?'' He said, ``Because
    there's a secondary market for retail theft'' and that
    ``underarm deodorant is going to end up in a flea market or
    online, along with a lot of other things, and so we're trying
    to stop the theft at the source, whether it's smash-and-grab or
    the like.'' Has there been something in the world of
    automobiles that has created a secondary market or some part of
    this that you might address, after Sheriff Dart speaks to
    privacy?
        Sheriff Dart. Thank you so much, Senator. I've heard the
    privacy issue brought up, and it's real to a certain extent,
    but for starters, the victims are there with us, and they've
    given consent, and they want this done, A. If there are bad
    actors, if there are bad actors who are using this for the
    wrong purpose, there are plenty of ways--as a former
    prosecutor--that you can charge these people for that.
        So, I do not think that's the reason we should be paralyzed
    here, because I was out with our people on a carjacking mission
    last week, and I cannot tell you the difference, it was such a
    great idea of how this could work. We had one car that we were
    tracking. We had active tracking going on. Our biggest question
    was what one of our cars was going to pull him over and arrest
    him. He was a person with a parole warrant, and he was in for
    shooting at police officers. We got him in custody. No issues.
        In another car that we were working with, we were in the
    back seat of the car with license plate readers, looking for
    cars that are on our list, because there's warrants for them,
    they had been stolen, carjacking, so on. By the time the
    license plate reader hits, though, it's 4 seconds before we get
    it. They're on the expressway, on the Dan Ryan. They're now 5
    miles down, just--we're completely operating in the dark. When
    it's tracked, we're there, right on top of it. When it's not
    tracked, it's completely, completely random, and we
    occasionally will get lucky.
        And so, that's why this privacy issue--it's real, but it
    absolutely cannot be stopping this and slowing this thing down,
    because we need this right now. I mean, this could be the game
    changer. The other things can be impactful a little bit. The
    tracking's everything.
        Chair Durbin. Mr. Bozzella, do you want to say a word
    before I turn to Mr. Glawe?
        Mr. Bozzella. I would simply say that we're looking to work
    with law enforcement to find a way to get this balance right.
    We think we're making progress in that regard, and we think
    that we can do this in a way that balances consumer privacy
    with the consumer's need to be protected from carjacking.
        Chair Durbin. Maybe the industry could start by having a
    consistent piece of technology, as opposed to many different
    ones, as you mentioned. Mr. Glawe, would you like to comment on
    the secondary market issue?
        Mr. Glawe. Sure. Chairman Durbin, thank you for the
    question. We have long-standing relationships with the Federal
    Bureau of Investigation; Department of Homeland Security and
    Customs and Border Protection, specifically; and State and
    local law enforcement in all 50 States and U.S. territories.
    This topic is very near and dear to NICB. We have done car
    investigation for over 100 years. Regarding secondary markets,
    the carjackings are usually associated in a conspiracy of other
    violations: criminal drive-by shootings and other offenses.
        But the secondary market for auto thefts or cars that are
    stolen is also different. We've seen a 39 percent increase in
    used vehicles over the last 2 years, approximately. There's a
    high supply--a high demand and a low supply. Cars are being
    stolen here in the United States. There's VIN swaps that are
    utilized to resell the vehicles so they're not known that they
    are stolen. They're shipped overseas, Middle East criminal
    enterprises. They go outbound, and as many of you are aware,
    they were funding for terrorism investigations like, Lebanese
    Hezbollah, in my prior capacity as department head for
    Intelligence for DHS. We've talked about that in our past.
        Then cars are also shipped to Mexico. We repatriate
    hundreds of cars a year that are shipped into Mexico after
    they're stolen. Senator, there is an extensive organized crime
    criminal conspiracy throughout the United States and worldwide
    on the supply chain on stolen vehicles, and we could even get
    into catalytic converters. There is a lot of profit to be made
    right now in this industry for the crime and for the criminals.
        Chair Durbin. Senator Grassley.
        Senator Grassley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks, all of
    you, for your testimony. I'm going to start with Mr. Herdman.
    You heard my opening remarks about carjackings up nationwide at
    alarming rates. Federal prosecutors have a role to play in
    bringing Federal carjacking charges. I want to help Federal
    prosecutors get the tools they need to keep our communities
    safe. Do you-carjackings regularly involve gangs and other
    criminal conspiracies? Second and last, what has been the
    Federal role in taking down gangs through carjacking and
    related prosecutions?
        Mr. Herdman. Thank you, Senator Grassley. Yes, I would say,
    just to echo what the other panelists have added, carjacking is
    absolutely in the toolbox of really any street gang that's
    operating in major American cities at this point in time. They
    tend to--gangs, in general, will tend to engage in, obviously,
    shootings and other intimidation tactics, but robberies,
    aggravated robberies and particularly car thefts, are important
    because they do help to facilitate other crimes, which has been
    addressed by other panelists, as well.
        When you're looking at a criminal street gang or any other
    kind of violent criminal organization, it's important to
    identify the predicate offenses that those gangs are
    committing, because then that allows Federal prosecutors and
    Federal investigators to build a RICO investigation or its
    corollary, a VICAR investigation, into a violent street gang
    organization. Carjacking, obviously, is playing an increasing
    role in the operations of those gangs and those violent
    organizations and will form the basis for larger network-type
    prosecutions that can take down not just one or two offenders,
    but an entire gang, all at once.
        Senator Grassley. For Mr. Glawe, when a vehicle's
    carjacked, both law enforcement and the car's owners want to
    find it before it can be used for another crime or an attacker
    can get away. For you, in what ways does private industry
    currently cooperate with law enforcement, and are there
    roadblocks to this cooperation?
        Mr. Glawe. Senator, thank you for the question. NICB has
    been partnering and sharing information with Federal, State,
    and local law enforcement for 100 years, and specifically
    regarding car thefts and carjackings. We are the information-
    sharing hub, intelligence-driven operations, bridging the gap
    between the private sector, the insurance industry, and those
    law enforcement partners. We are generally protected by statute
    in that very narrow scope of sharing information, criminal
    information, in most States. Any barrier or impediment to that
    would negatively affect the crime-siting mission and the
    public.
        Senator Grassley. Let me lead into a question for Mr.
    Herdman and Garcia to respond to. Under Operation Legend, the
    Department of Justice sent more officers to cities to help
    fight violent crime. Increasing officers and patrols seemed to
    work very well. When the rise in anti-crime rhetoric and
    defund-the-police efforts, law enforcement across the country
    has struggled to retain enough officers to do proactive
    policing and to go out on standard police patrols.
    Additionally, the Biden administration hasn't continued the
    initiatives like Operation Legend, even while police
    departments are short-staffed.
        Chief Garcia, can you explain to the Committee how having
    officers physically present and on patrols in certain areas are
    an integral part of reducing crime in these communities? For
    Mr. Herdman, how important were Federal resources and the
    increased presence of law enforcement to the success in your
    city in fighting violent crime?
        Chief Garcia. Thank you, Senator, for the question. As I
    made mention in my comments, proactive policing is integral to
    reduction of violent crime. Having a plan, being scoped, and
    putting officers in the right locations, being vigilant,
    addressing problem areas, individuals that are recidivists,
    drug houses, things of this sort, and being there in the area
    reduce violent crime. We have shown it to reduce violent crime.
        In addition to that, many things, as we've talked about--I
    know the concept of ghost guns comes around--well, I'm here to
    say that, you know, you don't just find ghost guns thrown
    around at the scene of crimes. The way ghost guns, usually from
    patrol officers or SWAT officers or operational perspectives,
    get found--it's by a hardworking man or woman making an
    investigative car stop or an individual getting a search
    warrant on a home and then coming up with what that is.
        I'll tell you, in the city of Dallas, we would not have
    these reductions if not for the proactive investigative work of
    the men and women of the Dallas Police Department. And the
    perspectives are that I can't force a man or woman, at 3 in the
    morning, to make an investigative car stop in one of our most
    violent crime grids in the city and arrest an armed, drug-
    dealing felon. They do that because they will feel supported.
    They do that because procedural justice has to work internal,
    inside the organization, in order for it to exist outside the
    organization.
        If officers don't feel that they're being treated fairly,
    if officers don't feel supported, they'll disengage from our
    communities when we need them to engage more now than ever, and
    not just from a proactive policing perspective, but from a
    community outreach perspective. And both those concepts aren't
    mutually exclusive. But again, proactive policing, having
    officers in the right areas--no plan will work if you don't
    have that.
        Senator Grassley. Mr. Herdman, would you give a short
    answer to my question, please, so we can move on?
        Mr. Herdman. Yes. Thank you, Senator Grassley, and I will
    keep it short. Operation Legend, obviously I was very fortunate
    to be able to extend that to Cleveland. The beauty of it was
    that, as the Chief was saying, when you had a patrol officer
    who made an arrest or made a stop, there was immediate reach-
    back to Federal resources, because we had ATF agents, FBI
    agents, DEA agents, and the Marshals working hand in glove, arm
    in arm with police officers. They were based out of our
    districts in Cleveland, Ohio, and we had resources that were
    provided, including a coordination van that the ATF had, so
    that we could make correlations on ballistic evidence.
        The second thing was that we had committed Federal
    prosecutors to bring these cases federally, so we could target
    and identify the most violent offenders and ensure that they
    were held in, confined, and taken off the streets and
    prosecuted federally immediately. Then the third thing,
    obviously there was a funding component, and that was very
    important, both for morale but I think also for long-term
    growth and coordination with Federal agencies.
        Senator Grassley. Thank you.
        Chair Durbin. Thank you. Senator Klobuchar.
        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Senator Durbin,
    Senator Grassley, for holding this important hearing. When I
    was a DA in Hennepin County, our biggest county, when I first
    got there, we had rampant carjacking. We made major focus on
    this. Back then, it was bait cars. It was more, of course, cars
    being stolen from the street, but oftentimes there were also
    people in them. And I'm committed to making a change here.
        I thought it was interesting what you talked about, Mr.
    Glawe, which makes some sense to me, about--everything you guys
    said made sense, but I want to start with this, with the
    organized crime and this idea that some of this is just, you
    know, people doing this for the fun of it, with people dead as
    a result, but some of it is because of the high demand for
    vehicles, and they're taking these cars. Would that make you
    lean more to a Federal response and the need for coordination
    with the FBI, U.S. Attorney's Office, and such?
        Mr. Glawe. Senator, thank you for the question.
    Fortunately, NICB has postured--that's what we do, and we
    actually have two former U.S. attorneys that are on my staff
    here today with us. We have aggressively postured with the FBI,
    Homeland Security investigations, and State and local law
    enforcement, exactly what you're talking about.
        The demand for cars right now is at an all-time high in the
    United States, up 39 percent. You can barely get a car when you
    go onto a lot. It has created a market for criminal
    organizations, especially if they don't actually commit a
    robbery, a violent crime--these are property crimes. We have
    seen a tremendous uptick in the United States since 2019, a 16
    percent increase in auto theft, but just the numbers on auto
    theft, Colorado has seen a 79 percent increase in auto theft;
    Wisconsin, 74; Vermont, 64; New York, 59 percent; DC 50----
        Senator Klobuchar. Yes. Yes, I know.
        Mr. Glawe. Yes.
        Senator Klobuchar. Could I give you my----
        Mr. Glawe. Yes.
        Senator Klobuchar [continuing]. Numbers?
        Mr. Glawe. Sure.
        Senator Klobuchar. Minneapolis alone--this is one city----
        Mr. Glawe. Yes.
        Senator Klobuchar [continuing]. Saw a 537 percent increase
    in carjackings between 2019 and 2020. In 2021, there were more
    than 640 successful or attempted carjackings in one city. That
    is not so different than what you're seeing by the numbers in
    Cook County, Sheriff. It's very similar with the percentages,
    where you've seen carjackings spike nearly threefold.
        I want to go to a different topic here with you, Chief
    Garcia, and that would be about, in general, supporting the
    police and the need to--and the morale issue and the like. I've
    led bipartisan legislation for years with Senator Murkowski,
    Coons, Tillis, about reauthorizing the COPS program. Could you
    talk about how that helps local law enforcement?
        Chief Garcia. Absolutely. Having that support from the COPS
    office and the COPS program, not only for the programs that we
    want to do and institute, with regards to looking at ways--
    remember the old Weed and Seed programs that we would have,
    prior? You know, I was a big Weed and Seed, back in the early
    1990's when I started this, and kind of had a resurgence of it
    in the city of Dallas, with the terminology and using that, but
    having those resources, helping resources and getting officers
    on the street, doing both proactive policing as well as
    community engagement is crucial and critical. More police
    officers in law enforcement agencies, if you have a plan,
    reduces violent crime.
        Senator Klobuchar. If you have a plan.
        Chief Garcia. Yes, ma'am.
        Senator Klobuchar. Yes. I agree. Mr. Herdman, in early
    February, the U.S. attorney's office in Minnesota brought
    Federal charges against a group of seven men for violent
    crimes, including carjacking. These cases were being prosecuted
    as part of the joint Federal, State, and local Project Safe
    Neighborhoods, which is, as you know, a Federal initiative led
    by U.S. attorneys. How does partnering with local and State law
    enforcement agencies act as a force multiplier for the U.S.
    attorneys' offices?
        Mr. Herdman. Thank you for the question, Senator Klobuchar.
    The Federal agencies--they operate most effectively, in my
    experience, when they actually are present in the police
    departments. When you have ATF agents and FBI agents who show
    up and work, hand in hand, on the same shifts with patrol
    officers, I think that that's a very effective way to
    demonstrate a message not only to the police officers in the
    big-city department, but I think also to the community.
        And so, I would suspect that that's what was going on with
    the violent crime task force in Minneapolis. I would hope so,
    because you do see--it's daily coordination and hourly
    coordination, as opposed to on a quarterly basis or a biannual
    basis. It's much more frequent and, I think, much more
    effective that way.
        Senator Klobuchar. You would agree that it's important to
    have a U.S. attorney in place, regardless of their political
    party? Have someone in place, running these offices?
        Mr. Herdman. I'm aware of the candidate who's been
    nominated. He's my partner at Jones Day, Mr. Luger, and he's--
    --
        Senator Klobuchar. Are you kidding? I didn't know that.
        Mr. Herdman. I will say, I'm on the record, I think, with
    respect to Mr. Luger. He's superbly qualified.
        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. You should all know that Mr.
    Luger was the U.S. attorney at the end of President Obama's
    term. Actually, the Justice Department under Donald Trump, he
    was one of two people they were considering having stayed on.
    He decided to go another route, and now he's ready to come
    back. He has strong support from Republican leaders that people
    on this side of the dais know. We haven't had problems with
    Andy Luger from most of the Republican Senators. This is a
    crusade of Tom Cotton's, who is not just holding up Mr. Luger,
    he's holding up a number of other U.S. attorneys and Marshals.
        I've got a situation in my State--and he's not here right
    now--where we have two retired police chiefs in Minneapolis-St.
    Paul. Like many jurisdictions, we don't have enough police
    right now. Andy Luger has vast experience and is willing to
    take on this carjacking issue, but Tom Cotton has decided,
    because of his opposition to something happening in another
    State, that he is holding up my U.S. attorney. I have had it.
    If he wants to be on the side of carjackers, go ahead, but we
    need leadership.
        This is not just a State and local issue. This is an
    organized crime issue, as Mr. Glawe has pointed out. This is an
    issue that goes beyond little local jurisdictions and one
    neighborhood's cop. It is about the cops doing their jobs, but
    it is also about taking on these cases in a big, big way.
        None of you have much to do with this. I cannot believe
    you're at the same law firm, Mr. Herdman. I did not know that.
    But I would really appreciate my colleagues on the other side
    of the aisle talking to Mr. Cotton to find some way to resolve
    this in the next week, because I am not going to give this up.
    You cannot hold up the U.S. attorneys who have no serious
    objections, support from Republicans, just to make a case,
    because you want to get attention nationally. Thank you.
        Chair Durbin. I might add that the U.S. Marshal for the
    Northern District of Illinois is also on Senator Cotton's list.
    Senator----
        Senator Klobuchar. As is the Marshal in the State of
    Minnesota.
        Chair Durbin. Senator Cornyn.
        Senator Cornyn. Chief Garcia, you can understand why I and
    others from Texas, and particularly in the Dallas area, are
    proud of the great work that you and the Dallas Police
    Department have done and the support that you've gotten from
    leadership like Mayor Johnson and the city council, and I
    appreciate your being here and sharing your formula for
    success. Is there any reason why other cities across the
    country couldn't embrace your approach in Dallas with similar
    results?
        Chief Garcia. There is no reason, Senator. I believe some
    have reached out. Some have reached out to us, and some have
    reached out to my criminologist partners, as well, but there is
    no reason why other agencies can't be doing the same things.
        Senator Cornyn. Am I correct in assuming that, since
    carjacking involves the threat or actual use of violence, that
    overwhelmingly it involves a firearm?
        Chief Garcia. Overwhelmingly, yes.
        Senator Cornyn. You, Chief, and I think Mr. Glawe, if I
    pronounced his name correctly, both mentioned Project Safe
    Neighborhoods, which of course is a Federal program designed to
    go after violent offenders that use a firearm, felons in
    possession and others, and use the mandatory minimums available
    under Federal firearms law. That started out, as I recall, as
    Project Exile in the Richmond U.S. attorney's office, years
    ago.
        In Texas, when I was attorney general, we called it ``Texas
    Exile,'' but the basic point is working with local and State
    law enforcement and Federal resources, particularly Federal
    prosecutors, to use Federal law to go after violent gun
    offenders and use the mandatory minimum available under Federal
    law, in order to dissuade people from using a firearm in the
    first place and, if you couldn't, to put them behind bars for a
    significant period of time. In your experience, Chief, is
    Project Safe Neighborhoods an important component of your
    ability to lower violent crime and reduce gun crime in Dallas?
        Chief Garcia. Absolutely. We have a remarkable relationship
    with my FBI, DEA, ATF, Marshals Office. We are in constant
    conversations. They have molded what we're doing to PSN to look
    at how we're doing our crime plan and be able to make that
    coexist. There is no question that the deterrent of filing
    these cases federally does work. Again, as we made mention
    earlier, I mean, one of the things we need to do is really
    utilize the laws that we have on the books. If we believe that
    gun crime is an issue, then individuals that are violating
    those laws need to be held accountable to the highest extent.
        Senator Cornyn. Mr. Glawe, you also mentioned Project Safe
    Neighborhoods. Do you share the Chief's point of view on that?
        Mr. Glawe. Senator, I do. Chief Garcia is exactly correct.
    I was actually an agent in Richmond almost 20 years ago, in
    that program you're talking about. Very familiar with it.
    Absolutely. It's a holistic approach, a strategy which needs a
    deterrent effect and strong enforcement and support of law
    enforcement, but also the community engagement and looking to
    off-ramp at-risk youths in the community before they commit the
    crimes, but I absolutely agree with the Chief.
        Senator Cornyn. Mr. Herdman, you used to be a U.S.
    attorney. What's your view?
        Mr. Herdman. Yes, Senator Cornyn. Thank you for the
    question. Absolutely, there needs to be a thought-out--and I
    think the Chief has put this very well--a plan, a plan that can
    be executed on and followed up, so there's close coordination
    between Federal agencies and local law enforcement, again, on
    identifying the most violent, most persistent felons, and
    ensuring that they receive Federal prosecutions if they're
    found to be in illegal possession of a firearm. It's absolutely
    effective.
        Senator Cornyn. Chief Garcia, I believe you and the
    district attorney in Dallas County have a good working
    relationship, but how important is it to have supportive
    prosecutors? Obviously, the police can't prosecute the crime.
    You investigate the crime, and you apprehend people who violate
    the law, but then it's up to the prosecutor to bring the
    charges. It's no secret, around the country, that there've been
    a group of prosecutors that have declined to enforce laws that
    are on the books, and with disastrous consequences for public
    safety, but can you just speak to the importance of having
    good, solid prosecutors who will enforce the law as written?
        Chief Garcia. It's incredibly important, absolutely
    important to hold individuals accountable, particularly
    individuals that have committed violence. The recidivism that
    we see when individuals are re-released quickly is an issue,
    but in addition to the district attorneys, you know, that we
    need to also call into question judges, as well, that are
    making decisions. Particularly, the district attorney in Dallas
    County has very little to say when it has to do with bonds or
    bail. That's on judges. You know, there are judges that have
    made irresponsible decisions in letting individuals out after
    they've committed acts of violence, that have come back to hurt
    our communities.
        But I would finish with this message. We have to control
    what we can control, and the message that I give my men and
    women is that if another part of the system lets us down, and
    you have to respond back to that house 20 times, then you
    respond back to that house 20 times, because we're not going to
    let our community down.
        Senator Cornyn. Thank you.
        Chair Durbin. Senator Coons.
        Senator Coons. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member
    Grassley, for holding this important hearing on carjackings, a
    form of violent crime that is steadily increasing across both
    red and blue States. It's the latest in a series of hearings
    that you've held in this Committee to look at violence
    prevention and what we can do to be smarter on crime and more
    effective, and what's the Federal role to help reverse this
    alarming trend.
        As the Co-Chair of the Senate Law Enforcement Caucus with
    Senator Blunt of Missouri, I'm particularly sensitive to the
    challenges of law enforcement where there's inadequate or
    uneven collection of data, and one of the challenges here, in
    terms of understanding the rise in carjackings across the
    country, and particularly in my home State of Delaware, is
    accurate and comprehensive statewide statistics, partly, in my
    State, because of how criminal law categorizes crime, depending
    on the particular facts of each case. If I could, first Sheriff
    Dart and Chief Garcia, I'd be interested in hearing about some
    of the obstacles to State and local data collection on
    carjackings, and then I'd be very interested in hearing how you
    think Federal law enforcement can most critically play a
    constructive role in addressing this ongoing challenge.
    Sheriff?
        Sheriff Dart. Thank you so much, Senator. You nailed it,
    Senator. When we first got engaged with this because of the
    rise, our very first stumbling block was getting beyond the
    anecdotes and actually have real, hard data. We spent an
    inordinate amount of time at our office, collecting all the
    data from the city of Chicago, and all the rest of the suburbs,
    to put a comprehensive database together. Why was that
    important? Well, just to get at, where were the carjackings
    occurring? What time of day? What vehicles were they using?
    Everything was all across the board.
        I can't emphasize enough how correct you are. We have 130
    suburbs in my county, as well, and it runs the gamut from ones
    that are wildly well funded to ones that literally, literally
    pay their officers $10 an hour, and so the turnover is such
    that, more often than not, I'm called in to do their patrol
    work because they don't have anybody for shift after shift.
        With that, when you ask about what can the Federal
    Government do, anything and everything you can do to put
    together a template on data collection, to put together
    resources so that it isn't just the well-off departments have
    dashboards, like we do--we have a phenomenal dashboard that we
    put together--but they have the ability to do it, because
    everyone knows if you put junk in, that's what you're going to
    get. In these----
        Senator Coons. Thank you, Sheriff. When I was county
    executive in Delaware, one of the things we did was literally
    borrow from Cook County's work on data analysis. Forgive me. I
    just have two and a half minutes. Chief----
        Sheriff Dart. Please.
        Senator Coons [continuing]. If you could, how can law
    enforcement federally best help law enforcement at the
    municipal and local level?
        Chief Garcia. You know, I will say this. The model that we
    have really is truly having SAGs that are in place that truly
    want to buy into the law enforcement agency's mission and role,
    and to not be single-minded, but be able to not just look
    outside the box but act outside the box with regards to who
    their law enforcement partner is and having those
    relationships.
        Senator Coons. Having ATF, DEA, FBI, Marshals actively
    engaged, coordinating with local law enforcement and then using
    that data analysis to target those resources--that strikes me
    as one of the things we can bring to the table. Last two
    questions, if I might. Mr. Herdman, you mentioned, in your
    testimony, expanded Federal prosecution of juveniles involved
    in carjackings isn't a reasonable solution. Could you tell us
    briefly why not?
        Mr. Herdman. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the question.
    Yes, it's just not feasible. The volume of offender, as well as
    the resources that are available on the Federal level, in the
    Federal courts, are just not feasible for widespread
    prosecution of juveniles, and I think we have to acknowledge
    that, going in, because of the prevalence of juvenile offenders
    particularly in carjacking, and identify other ways that there
    could be Federal support for prosecution, rehabilitation, and
    reentry for youthful offenders.
        Senator Coons. Well, the President made a proposal to fund
    community violence interventions as a means of reducing violent
    crime. Mr. Bryant, what sort of community-based interventions
    could make a meaningful impact in reducing the involvement of
    juveniles, of kids, in this particular kind of violent crime?
        Mr. Bryant. Thank you for the question. I think really
    reaching out to the highest-risk individuals, typically, those
    are actually going to be adults. And the more that we can
    rehabilitate adults, the better they're going to be as parents
    for their kids, because we have to, you know, sort of
    rehabilitate our communities, our families, so that they're
    more self-sustaining, so that the institutions that are going
    to educate our kids and heal our kids are all working in
    tandem. So, the work we do is really trying to build at the
    community level, because it's the people in the community that
    have to be empowered to do for themselves.
        Senator Coons. Thank you, Mr. Bryant. I think I can see a
    general approach: improve data collection and analysis; improve
    the coordination; having senior agents in charge, special
    agents in charge who actually bring Federal resources to bear;
    make sure that we're not targeting juveniles in a way that
    makes them essentially the scapegoat for what is a broader
    challenge; and have community-based interventions.
        We have to have effective and appropriate law enforcement
    and prosecutions, targeted to the most violent adult
    individuals, and community-based supports for those undergoing
    reentry, to make sure they don't reoffend and to give them the
    support and the options to avoid a steady increase in this kind
    of crime. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this productive hearing.
        Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Coons. Senator Blackburn.
        Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to
    each of you for being here. Mr. Glawe, I want to come to you
    first. Senator Coons was just talking about targeting the
    right--putting the focus where it should be. Now in Tennessee,
    we make automobiles, and ther are some that want to sue the
    automakers because they say automakers should be able to make
    it harder to hijack a car. To me, this sounds a lot like victim
    blaming. But I'd like for you just to touch on what the--the
    effect of some of these proposed lawsuits against automakers,
    and then how that would affect the cost to manufacturers, how
    it may set up perverse incentives.
        Mr. Glawe. Senator, thank you for the question. From NICB's
    perspective, we are the hub for information-sharing. We have a
    manufacturers working group. We've worked with the insurance
    industry and Federal, State, and local law enforcement for 100
    years. This is what we do. So any impediment for sharing of
    intelligence or information on stolen vehicles, cars that have
    been stolen, or any crimes would hurt our mission and hurt the
    public. I would say when thoughtful legislation is occurring at
    the Federal or State level, information sharing, narrowly
    scoped for crime information, is critical to our mission space
    and to break down those barriers.
        Senator Blackburn. I appreciate that. You know, I was
    struck by the DOJ focus that we have had, in their violence
    reduction strategy, on what they call the iron pipeline and gun
    dealers. I think this response really misses the mark, if we're
    talking about targeting and we're talking about focusing. One
    of the things that we have seen, as we've looked at this issue,
    is the way police departments and law enforcement agencies are
    drained of resources right now, and the way some of these local
    entities are on this defund-the-police push.
        The other thing that has interested me is the way
    progressive prosecutors have really come to be, in major
    metropolitan cities, and how they're refusing to prosecute some
    of these criminals. Chief Garcia, talk a minute about where you
    are. Then, Mr. Herdman, I want to come to you. Let's talk about
    gun reform and if that's the appropriate path, or is it better
    to go in and look at the issue of the violent offenders, look
    at the necessity for lawful gun ownership and the effects that
    some of these policies have?
        Chief Garcia. Thank you, Senator. What I will say, first of
    all, that, to me, it is the access of firearms to criminals
    that are not being held accountable that is my issue. If we're
    going to strengthen the laws--the laws we have on the books,
    then let's strengthen them so that we have responsible gun
    ownership, that we have safe-stored guns, but ultimately,
    again, it's the criminal access to firearms that's the issue.
        Senator Blackburn. Okay. Mr. Herdman.
        Mr. Herdman. I couldn't agree more, Senator. We took a very
    offender-based approach in the Justice Department when I was
    U.S. attorney, and I think that that's the appropriate way to
    approach this problem. You have individuals who are not only in
    possession illegally of a firearm, but they've demonstrated,
    through their history and through their prior conduct, that
    they're willing to engage in violent activity against their
    fellow residents of their city. I think the offender-based
    approach is the only one that really works, because those are
    the people that we have to be concerned about: the ones who are
    willing not only to possess a firearm illegally but to use it.
    You have to have a strategy that's going to address that
    threat.
        Senator Blackburn. I think you're right about that. Then
    you look at some of these liberal prosecutors, and I hear from
    a lot of women who are very concerned about people like Chesa
    Boudin and Gascon and the fact that you have these violent
    offenders that end up back on the streets. They're concerned
    about the Biden administration doubling down on a ``soft-on-
    crime'' strategy and what they see coming from people like
    Rachael Rollins, who declined to prosecute 15 different crimes
    as a matter of policy, and as a U.S. attorney from
    Massachusetts.
        Just last week, we had a nominee for the Eastern District
    of New York who has publicly applauded the progressive
    prosecutor movement. That's unfortunate for the people of New
    York, because that individual may end up on the Federal bench.
    Mr. Herdman, what kind of internal reform do we need to see,
    for our district attorneys and U.S. attorneys across the
    country, so that they're addressing this rise in violent crime?
        Mr. Herdman. I've been a lawyer for over 20 years, Senator,
    and most of that has been spent as a prosecutor, either a State
    or Federal prosecutor. The one thing that I thought was the
    most important part of my job was not to act as a legislator,
    when I was in that role. I was very aware of the fact that I
    was part of the executive branch.
        It was my job to carry out the law that was given to us by
    the legislature and that had been approved by the courts. That
    was the attitude that I had when I was U.S. attorney, that was
    the approach that we took when we prosecuted cases out of the
    Northern District of Ohio when I was U.S. attorney, and I think
    that's the most fundamental obligation you have as a
    prosecutor, is to prosecute the law that's given to you, not to
    try to legislate from your office.
        Senator Blackburn. That is important for us to keep in mind
    as we look at judges and as we look at U.S. attorney nominees.
    It's important to stay in your lane. Thank you very much. I
    appreciate your attention. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chair Durbin. Senator Tillis.
        Senator Tillis. You can defer to Cruz.
        Chair Durbin. You want to defer to him? Senator Cruz.
        Senator Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Over the last
    several years, we have seen countless Democrats across the
    country embracing the movement to defund or abolish the police.
    We've seen Democrats supporting district attorneys, funded in
    significant part by George Soros, who refuse to prosecute
    violent crime, who release violent criminals into our
    community. The consequence of these extreme policies is, sadly,
    predictable. When they began demonizing cops, when they began
    advocating for defunding and abolishing the police, all of us
    who had worked in law enforcement said the result is going to
    be skyrocketing crime. Tragically, that is precisely the result
    we've seen nationwide, homicides increased 30 percent from 2019
    to 2020. Twenty-seven major U.S. cities experienced a 44
    percent increase in homicides since 2019. Homicides increased
    in 44 of the 7 major cities from 2020 to 2021, and over a dozen
    cities set new homicide records in 2021.
        The topic of this hearing, carjacking, has been
    particularly horrific. New York City carjackings quadrupled
    since 2018 to more than 500 in 2021. Philadelphia quadrupled
    since 2015 to more than 800 in 2021. New Orleans nearly tripled
    from 2018 to 2021.
        Washington, DC, they're up 300 percent since 2019.
    Minneapolis, they're up 375 percent from 2020 to 2021, and
    Chicago carjackings have increased an astonishing 500 percent
    since 2014, after carjackings skyrocketed in 2020.
        All of these are endangering people's lives. They're
    endangering their family. They're endangering their children.
    Chief Garcia, mayor of Dallas, Eric Johnson, has become a
    friend, and I will say you and the mayor have shown remarkable
    courage, bucking a national trend and taking on some of the
    extreme voices on the left advocating abolishing the police,
    advocating defunding the police, advocating slashing funding
    for the police. Instead, the mayor, with you working along his
    side, have courageously argued the best way to protect
    communities, particularly low-income communities, is having an
    effective police force that is well resourced, that is on the
    ground to protect people's lives. As a consequence, Dallas was
    the only one of the top 10 cities in this country where violent
    crime fell in 2021.
        Chief Garcia, how harmful do you believe efforts to defund
    or abolish the police have been, and what's the best way to
    stop violent crime?
        Chief Garcia. First, I'll say that I think there's just
    been a false narrative. It's those in power believing the
    rhetoric that has been the issue. I'm not a stay-in-the-office
    kind of chief, Senator, whether it was in my former position as
    chief in California or chief now in the city of Dallas. I have
    not met a neighborhood impacted by violent crime in the city of
    Dallas, Texas, regardless of language spoken, racial makeup, or
    economic status that has ever asked me for less police.
        In fact, unfortunately, it's our communities of color that
    usually plead for me for more. Yes, they want fair policing.
    Yes, we want to be just. Yes, we need to get better. But none
    of the neighborhoods that I go see want us to go away. And so,
    there is--there is definitely a disconnect between what we're
    hearing, the false narrative, and what's actually occurring in
    neighborhoods that are impacted by violent crime.
        The second part to your question is, we need to ensure that
    the morale of the department is high; we need to ensure that
    communities know that we're there to support them; and then we
    need to make sure that we team up with scientists, doctors of
    criminology, to tell us what the best practices are, so that we
    have credibility not only to our community, that what we're
    doing is not just something else that we're throwing up against
    the wall, but to our rank and file, so they don't feel the same
    way, as well, because again, without the buy-in from both, no
    plan's going to be successful.
        Senator Cruz. Thank you, Chief. You know, I will say, it's
    not just a few radical voices on the far left but, sadly, the
    Biden administration. President Biden has nominated two of the
    leading advocates for abolishing the police to senior positions
    in the Department of Justice, and, astonishingly, every single
    Senate Democrat voted to confirm them. President Biden has
    nominated prosecutors who have been Soros' prosecutors,
    releasing violent criminals. He's nominated them to senior
    positions, and sadly, every single Democrat has voted to
    confirm them.
        Sheriff Dart, let me ask you a final question. In January
    of this year, you spoke to The New York Post about the pretrial
    monitoring program that you operate on behalf of Cook County,
    and you voiced concerns over the type of defendants that were
    placed in pretrial home confinement. You stated that you have
    2,600 defendants on pretrial home monitoring, and 75 to 80
    percent of those defendants sent to home monitoring--not sent
    to jail--are charged with a violent offense.
        What are the consequences of 75 to 80 percent of the
    defendants with--on home monitoring being charged with a
    violent offense? And are the district attorneys objecting and
    fighting? I understand the judges are sending them there, but
    what's the DA's office view on this?
        Sheriff Dart. To your point, Senator, you're right. I mean,
    to the police officers out on the street, it's beyond
    demoralizing, because so many--these are the folks that take us
    so much time to get the initial case against them, and then,
    literally, when they're back out on the street an hour later,
    on home monitoring, it's very demoralizing. And so, it's
    something that is, frankly--and it's been brought up here
    numerous times already.
        On the judicial side, it has been very, very difficult. I'm
    a former prosecutor myself, and you could talk all you want,
    when you're in court, on the bond side of it, but it's the
    judge who will make that ultimate determination. I made it
    clear to them, for home monitoring purposes, that's not what it
    was ever set up for. It was set up for drug offenders and
    people along those lines.
        When you put those folks out, not only is it very difficult
    for us to monitor them, because that's not what it was set up
    for, but it's very demoralizing for the communities, because
    they know full well that that guy was bad. He finally got
    caught, but now he's right back. And so, it's been very, very
    difficult and very trying.
        Senator Cruz. Thank you.
        Chair Durbin. We often hear claims about defunding the
    police, and I'd like to enter into the record some information
    about significant increases in Federal funding for State and
    local law enforcement under the Biden administration.
        [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
        The American Rescue Plan, passed with only Democratic votes
    in the Senate, provided $350 billion in State and local funding
    that the Biden administration has made available for use in
    hiring law enforcement personnel, purchasing law enforcement
    technology and equipment, and supporting community violence
    intervention programs. I'm not going to read the entire
    statement for the record, but I will add that the only instance
    where we have a Senator holding up the appointment of law
    enforcement officials at the Federal level, to help deal with
    the crime we're talking about today, is a Republican Senator
    from Arkansas.
        He can't explain it, because there's no complaint about any
    of these individuals. He just has his own feelings toward the
    subject. But to argue that this is a partisan subject is an
    oversimplification. Senator Blumenthal.
        Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for
    being here. I was a former Federal prosecutor, the U.S.
    attorney in Connecticut, and State attorney general in
    Connecticut for 20 years, and I know firsthand how challenging
    and sometimes heartbreaking your job is, and I admire your
    dedication as career law enforcement officials to this cause. I
    want to emphasize a point here, that I think the American
    people really feel very deeply, which is, this cause should not
    be partisan. We shouldn't be fighting among ourselves,
    Republicans against Democrats, on law enforcement. It ought to
    be absolutely, across-the-aisle, 100 percent in favor.
        These numbers, $350 billion in State and local funding in
    the American Rescue Plan, $2.1 billion for State and local law
    enforcement assistance, $184 million above the Fiscal Year 2021
    number--we ought to be increasing the resources available, not
    just in the hardware, equipment, but also in the kind of
    training and, yes, counseling that you need, that many of the
    folks who go through trauma--they experience trauma firsthand,
    and it impacts them. They deserve it, and they need it.
        More funding is part of the answer here, and the more we
    are fighting and trying to discredit colleagues on this issue
    or at the community level, fellow elected officials, fellow
    citizens, the more we are drawn into a morass of inaction.
    That's a disservice to you but, more fundamentally, to our
    crime victims and survivors who need that help.
        As you said, Chief, I have never found a community where
    people say, ``Oh, give us less protection. We need fewer cops
    on the beat. We need less safeguards against the drive-by
    shootings that take our young people when they're sitting on
    porches in downtown Hartford or just otherwise going about
    their lives.'' Americans feel deeply about this issue, and they
    want support for our law enforcement, and we should be giving
    them more, not just in dollars, but emotional support, as well.
        This issue of carjacking has bedeviled me since I was U.S.
    attorney and tried to get the FBI to investigate carjacking.
    Federal law prohibits it, but as you know, it requires proof,
    beyond a reasonable doubt, the defendant had intent to cause
    serious bodily harm or death, and some courts have required
    evidence to establish such intent, quote, ``at the precise
    moment'', unquote, the car is taken.
        Let me ask you, to make this law more effective and crimes
    more easily provable when they involve carjacking, should we
    make it presumptive evidence, that someone had a firearm at the
    time they took a car, that they meant bodily harm if they have
    a firearm, whether or not they're a convicted felon and they
    could legally possess it--and even whether it's properly
    licensed to them? You have a firearm at the time you carjack a
    car, there's Federal jurisdiction. Let me turn that question
    over to you.
        Mr. Herdman. If I may, Senator? I appreciate the question,
    and I think the inclusion of that particular specific intent
    mens rea in the statute is a hindrance to being able to bring
    Federal cases. I do think, obviously, in other places we have
    firearm enhancements or firearm as the basis for jurisdiction
    for a Federal offense. Here, we also separately have a vehicle
    that's in interstate commerce. Bit I do agree that it's unusual
    to see that kind of a mens rea in a violent crimes statute, and
    it does serve as, at least initially, an obstacle to bringing
    these cases.
        I spoke, in my opening testimony, about the risks
    associated with carjacking. It happens in a split second,
    there's a moving car involved, sometimes there's passengers in
    the car who are not seen to the perpetrator, including
    children. That raises the risk that there's going to be some
    sort of resistance, either by virtue of surprise or by virtue
    of trying to defend family members, from the person who's a
    victim of the crime. The inclusion of a firearm in that set of
    circumstances greatly increases the risk of somebody being
    seriously injured or killed in the course of a carjacking. We
    see that over and over and over again.
        So, I do think, for the Committee's work, if there were
    some consideration both of the mens rea component of this, as
    well as addition of a conspiracy statute within 2119 itself,
    that would be very effective for Federal prosecutors and would
    greatly assist the ability to bring these cases federally.
        Sheriff Dart. Senator, if I could just add, as well, I work
    very closely with our U.S. attorney in Chicago, and he's
    phenomenal, but he's brought up the exact point that was just
    made: that he cannot proceed because of what you had pointed
    out. In these crimes, not only are they very violent, they're
    very organized. They usually have multiple cars, so the person
    holding the gun on the individual is not the one that gets in
    the car. Somebody else gets in the car. They have a trail car
    that goes, usually, a couple blocks away. They flip drivers.
    It's very complex. Conspiracy, absolutely.
        But to the other point we talked about, that's why the
    tracking is so imperative, because if we don't get that car
    quickly, there is no scenario where that poor victim, who just
    had a gun put to their head, is going to be able to identify
    anybody. What we'll have is a fourth individual is actually the
    one in the car that we caught, not the one that started it.
    That's why these type of discussions would be so helpful to us,
    because this is very well organized, and these are crews that
    are doing it in a very thoughtful fashion.
        Senator Blumenthal. You know, I think your points are very
    well taken. We're sort of talking lawyer talk, here. We know
    that mens rea is an element of a crime that has to be proved
    beyond a reasonable doubt. Walking into court, as a prosecutor,
    you've got a checklist, elements of the crime. Got to prove
    intent, but to do bodily harm at the time of the crime, at that
    precise moment, is hard to prove unless you have some physical
    evidence like possession of a firearm. It can be--if you're
    proving a conspiracy, it can be one of the conspirators. As you
    well put it here this morning, these crimes succeed because
    they are organized, they are, in effect, a conspiracy.
        Thanks for your observations, Sheriff. Thank you, and thank
    you very much, all of you, for being here today. Thank you.
        Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Blumenthal. Senator Tillis.
        Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you,
    gentlemen, for being here. Chief Garcia, how's morale?
        Chief Garcia. I would say morale, indicative of the amazing
    work the men and women are doing, is in the direction that we
    want it to go, because we couldn't be doing what we're doing if
    it wasn't.
        Senator Tillis. How are retirements, on the one end, versus
    recruiting on the other end?
        Chief Garcia. You know, what we're looking at is
    retirements are coming off as usual, for every--every year,
    we're looking at about 200, 195 to 200 in attrition per year.
        Senator Tillis. Are you back filling them?
        Chief Garcia. We are. We are. Our academies--we just
    graduated one last week. We're continuing to hire. We're doing
    everything we can to restore--I will say this, we--I mean, I'm
    not quite sure that a lot of places--when we talk about
    support, our mayor, city council approved us to hire 500
    officers in the next two fiscal years, and so----
        Senator Tillis. In addition?
        Chief Garcia. Yes, to get to, hopeful, 3,200. Obviously
    with the attrition we have----
        Senator Tillis. Yes.
        Chief Garcia [continuing]. You know, we're----
        Senator Tillis. It's hard to catch up.
        Chief Garcia. We're going to catch up, and we're starting
    to catch up.
        Senator Tillis. Sheriff Dart, same questions.
        Sheriff Dart. We are having a greater difficulty than the
    Chief is.
        Senator Tillis. Do you think some of that has to do with
    maybe the positions that outside organizations and elected
    officials have taken toward police?
        Sheriff Dart. That factors in. There's--it's complex, but I
    can tell you, within the Chicago Police Department, which is
    not my jurisdiction but within my county----
        Senator Tillis. Yes.
        Sheriff Dart. Having horrible times with many more
    retirements than they are----
        Senator Tillis. Fewer recruits?
        Sheriff Dart. Oh, God, yes. We're having the same problems
    but on a smaller scale.
        Senator Tillis. Do you think some who have suggested, over
    the last year or two, that Cook County and Chicago needs fewer
    police is a good idea?
        Sheriff Dart. Oh, it's an awful idea. I mean, and it always
    was. I can just tell you, Chicago, rightfully so, gets most of
    the attention, but the 130 suburban areas that I also have
    under me--they're desperate. There's entire departments where I
    have to do multiple shifts because they have no police officers
    at all.
        Senator Tillis. Yes, I think there is spillover. I live in
    the Charlotte suburban area, and I'm in the Huntersville Police
    Department. They're looking for recruits. Actually,
    interestingly, they're advertising in Washington State, and a
    number of other places and getting a flow over to an area
    where, I think, public officials are more kind toward law
    enforcement officers who put their lives on the line.
        Mr. Bozzella, do you believe the car industry needs to
    actually step up and become a part of the solution to the
    problem of carjackings?
        Mr. Bozzella. We do believe we can be part of a broader
    solution.
        Senator Tillis. But do you think it's your problem?
        Mr. Bozzella. We're here to be part of a broader solution.
        Senator Tillis. How many cars are on the road right now
    that would never have the technology that would go into a car,
    let's say, 2 years from now?
        Mr. Bozzella. Well, many.
        Senator Tillis. Millions.
        Mr. Bozzella. Yes. There----
        Senator Tillis. If we focus on that, would we more likely
    just see more chop shops filled with cars that were dated at a
    time that wouldn't take advantage of that technology, so we'd
    only be benefiting people that can buy a new car?
        Mr. Bozzella. Look, that's an issue, right?
        Senator Tillis. Yes.
        Mr. Bozzella. We've got to----
        Senator Tillis. The biggest.
        Mr. Bozzella [continuing]. Sort through the technology.
        Senator Tillis. I was the speaker of the house in North
    Carolina. We focused a lot on chop shops. They go after spare
    parts. They go take a car that's a little bit more dated.
    People are not buying cars as frequently now, with the economy
    going the way it's going. More people are buying used cars. I
    think you're going to always evolve your technology, but for us
    to think that that's a primary objective, to reduce
    carjackings, I think misses the point.
        The point here is we need to do a better job of bending the
    curve on crime. Carjacking is just one of them. Murdering
    police officers, making communities less safe, I think is where
    we should spend the majority of our time, and I always expect
    the industry to get more sophisticated. You're going to do that
    anyway, because it's going to make the product more attractive
    to the people who are going to buy the car, but not necessarily
    put you at the tip of the spear.
        Chief Garcia, to what extent, in Texas, do you think the
    fact that we had a fourfold increase in illegal crossings, and
    an unprecedented number of got-aways that are evading Border
    Patrol, has made Texas communities less safe?
        Chief Garcia. I'll say, Senator, obviously when we have the
    criminal element that is doing that, it makes us less safe. I
    will tell you that in the city of Dallas, we have far more
    citizens of the State of Texas, documented citizens that are
    committing crimes, more than undocumented. But having said
    that, one thing that we need to do, not just in the State of
    Texas but throughout the country--and there's other States, one
    that I came from, that need to do a far better job of holding
    individuals that have committed serious or violent crimes
    accountable that are here illegally. That is something that
    needs to get worked on.
        Senator Tillis. You know, I think that the concern I have,
    particularly for Hispanic communities or other ethnic
    communities, because we know that there are a number of people
    coming across the border from countries, actually, in the other
    hemisphere, but I think that the criminal element that crosses
    the border is most likely to go into communities that look like
    them and exploit those communities and make them less safe,
    much more so than my community, maybe. Do you agree with that?
        Chief Garcia. I would agree with that.
        Senator Tillis. Mr. Chair, I know that I'm the last one to
    speak, so I'm not going to take any more time. I may have some
    questions for the record. Thank you all for being here. It's a
    big panel, so there's no way I could get a question to every
    one of you. Thank you all. Thank you for your service.
        Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Tillis. Senator Ossoff is
    online.
        Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You'll have to
    forgive me. My time is brief, as I'm between a couple of
    meetings, but I wanted to make sure to address this issue.
    Sheriff Dart, Atlanta police have warned the public about bump
    and rob carjackings, where suspects purposefully bump into
    drivers to lure them out, attempt to steal their car. What is
    your guidance for drivers, in Georgia and across the country,
    who want to avoid this kind of attack, and what steps do you
    think communities can take in order to reduce the incidence?
        Sheriff Dart. Thank you, Senator. We put a list of things
    online and did a press conference announcing it, for people to
    make themselves less likely to be victimized. There's a slew of
    them, hitting all the different scenarios, but the one in
    particular that you bring up is very real. In that scenario, we
    have told people that, A, call 911--most people have their
    phone--but also try, if possible, go to well-lit areas, go to a
    police station if it happens to be close.
        But it's a very complex problem, because people feel as if
    they are going to then be subsequently charged for leaving the
    scene of an auto accident. So, calling local law enforcement
    right away is helpful. Well-lit areas, really helpful. But yes,
    they do need to move beyond that location where they're at, at
    that point, because they will be targeted.
        Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Sheriff Dart. Thank you, Mr.
    Chairman. I yield back.
        Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Ossoff. Senator
    Whitehouse.
        Senator Whitehouse. Thank you. We've had some experience in
    Rhode Island with community violence prevention programs. One
    run by our center for nonviolence is called the Street Workers
    program, and it finds people who may have had some experience
    with street crime, and are certainly known and active in the
    community, and ties them up with the police department so that
    they can provide what you might call early warning systems and
    also, if it looks like something that is very provocative has
    taken place, to be able to reach out into the community and try
    to defuse tensions before further violence takes place.
        Our experience has been very successful. The Providence
    police swear by their relationship with the Street Workers
    program. I wanted to, I guess, Sheriff Dart, get your opinion
    on whether the positive experience that the Providence police
    have had with this sort of community nonviolence program has
    been replicated elsewhere. Are we an anomaly, or is this a
    fairly consistent pattern of success?
        Sheriff Dart. There's different variations of it, going by
    different names. In our area, there's one called Operation
    CeaseFire. It works well when you have that partnership. Some
    don't have that partnership with law enforcement. They're
    somewhat independent operators, and they would suggest that
    that is the only way they have credibility on the street, that
    if they're seen as working too close with police, then their
    sources will dry up and they won't be able to intervene.
        We've been doing a variation of that within our jail, where
    we work with people who we have identified as most likely to
    shoot or be shot. We work with them in the jail, and then when
    they leave, we connect them to community providers. We've had
    remarkable luck making sure that they're not shooting people or
    being shot themselves. But those interventions on the street
    are very critical.
        Historically, the data's been tricky. It's been tricky,
    because at times, sometimes people will look at the dip in
    crime in an area and say that was due to us, when there's many
    other factors. But we have found that those interventions, like
    you're talking, are phenomenal. The one where it's connected to
    police is really great. It's hard to get that connection,
    though.
        Senator Whitehouse. The other one that we've worked on, and
    that actually ended up in a Federal law because of a
    partnership with Senator Cornyn, was to look at people who are
    incarcerated--you mentioned people who are in jail--look at
    people who are incarcerated and prepare them better for release
    back into society, including things like medication-assisted
    treatment, if they have narcotics addiction problems. The
    result we saw from that was really profound, first in terms of
    less mortality from overdoses in that population. Huge drop,
    like 60, 70 percent.
        Just generally, when there's better accountability and
    better support for people going back into the community, it was
    associated, at least in Rhode Island, with lower crime rates,
    as well as these more specific statistics about less opioid
    overdose death. I just wonder if you had a comment on that,
    from your experience, as well.
        Sheriff Dart. We're doing the exact same thing, Senator,
    and I often will tell folks, when you're operating a jail,
    anything less than what you're talking about, what we do, you
    should get out of the business. You shouldn't be doing it. Two
    things. One, we train people who we identify at intake with
    opioid issues, and then we train them how to utilize Naloxone.
    When they leave, they get two Naloxone kits when they leave.
    They utilize it all the time, because when they come back into
    custody, frequently with us, we'll interview them and find out
    how often it was used. We connect people with, particularly,
    opioid issues with providers out in the community.
        The notion that someone who has all these issues and is
    brought into jail, when you know he's going back to the
    community he left--the notion that you just open the door and
    let him out that door and things are going to work out real
    well--it's the heart of the problem. We case manage people when
    they leave us, with that notion that that's how you bend this
    curve.
        The mental health component of it's the easier one,
    frankly, because we do real deep diagnosis at the front end,
    there, connect them with providers on the outside, and with it
    managing them, again, make sure they stay on their meds. We've
    seen a tremendous drop on recidivism coming back into the jail,
    and making the communities a lot safer. The program you're
    talking about in your community--it's the only way to go.
        Senator Whitehouse. I'd invite anybody else on the panel
    who wishes to respond to those comments, in the form of an
    answer to question for the record, to please feel free and do
    so. My time has expired. I would like to tell the Chairman that
    one of the things that we were unable to accomplish was to try
    to get additional support for the localities into which large
    numbers of people emerging from incarceration go.
        We have had maps in Rhode Island that show which zip code
    people are discharged to from our ACI, and as you'll imagine,
    it's not uniform across the State. Some zip codes have almost
    zero discharge. Some zip codes have phenomenally high discharge
    rates. It's not just following the individual into the
    communities. It's also supporting those communities as they
    deal with the fact that these discharges from the incarcerative
    system are not evenly spread. If we can work more on that, that
    I think would be--that's the one undone piece here.
        I thank you for the hearing, Chairman, and I thank
    everybody for participating. If you want to add something in
    the form of a response, written response, please feel free.
        Chair Durbin. I'd say to Senator Whitehouse, we could tell
    you in Chicago where they go, not exclusively, but to a large
    extent where ex-incarcerated tend to head home. Those
    communities, their churches and organizations that are trying
    to help them, are especially hard-pressed. We have so many
    wonderful groups. Mr. Bryant is here representing one of them,
    and I don't think you've had your day in court.
        [Laughter.]
        You haven't been able--I'd like you to conclude, if you
    will, because there's an aspect of what you're doing which kind
    of bridges some differences which we've heard in this
    Committee, because you're working not only in community
    intervention, but you're working with law enforcement in
    community intervention. Would you please make a record of that,
    again, if you would, please?
        Mr. Bryant. Yes. Yes, I would. When Communities Partner for
    Peace was started, one of our executive directors at our
    partner organization used to work for the Institute for the
    Study and Practice of Nonviolence in Rhode Island. His name is
    Teny Gross. And so----
        Senator Whitehouse. We know Teny well. You've got a hero on
    your----
        Mr. Bryant. Exactly. I would just say that, since the days
    of CeaseFire, we have vastly improved our relationship with law
    enforcement. Now it is true that guys who are working on the
    front lines, on the streets, with the highest-risk people
    should not interact with law enforcement, because it does
    reduce their credibility, but the people in management, people
    like myself, do coordinate with our law enforcement on a
    biweekly basis. We coordinate with city officials, county
    officials, State officials. We play a role in ensuring that
    that coordination is happening.
        I think the other thing that is worth pointing out is that,
    at our Metropolitan Peace Academy that I mentioned earlier, we
    train the outreach workers in a 144-hour curriculum, and that
    has also brought more credibility to the field of violence
    prevention, and it's allowed for more greater trust with law
    enforcement understanding our role, because they actually
    contribute to our curriculum. Then the last thing I'll say is
    that we created what we call a Community Training Academy,
    where it's a community-led training where citizens in a
    particular police district can host officers for a training, so
    that officers can see that community from the community's lens,
    and so they get to understand what are the assets in that
    community, who are the leaders in that community, and what are
    the challenges from the community's perspective, because, you
    know, we agree that we want more law enforcement, but we want
    better, fairer, more engaged law enforcement, and for them to
    realize that, as a citizen, when I interact with law
    enforcement, that is something that I probably will never
    forget. And so, understanding your role in the community is
    extremely important, but we have to rebuild that trust, and
    we're at a all-time low in Chicago, but it's something that we
    have to--we're going to be a part of the solution, to bring
    that back to bear.
        Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Bryant. Thanks to all the
    witnesses. I think it was a good hearing. We learned a lot, and
    I hope you were able to teach us effectively and feel that you
    had a rewarding experience, as well. You helped us understand
    this complicated issue and how the Federal Government has a
    role in it and the State and local responsibilities, as well.
        My continued thanks to Ranking Member Grassley for working
    with me on this issue on a bipartisan basis. The hearing
    record's going to be open for a week for statements to be
    submitted. Questions for the record may be submitted by Members
    up to 5 p.m. on Tuesday, March 8th.
        Thanks again to the witnesses for coming. The hearing
    stands adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 12:07 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
        [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]

                                A P P E N D I X

    Miscellaneous submissions:

     Act 4 Juvenile Justice, March 1, 2022............................   123

     National District Attorney's Association (NDAA), February 28,
        2022..........................................................   126

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