[Senate Hearing 117-436]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                             
                                                        S. Hrg. 117-436

                      OVERSIGHT OF THE DEPARTMENT
                          OF HOMELAND SECURITY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               ----------                              

                           NOVEMBER 16, 2021

                               ----------                              

                          Serial No. J-117-45

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         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary  
         
         
         
                 
         
         
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                      OVERSIGHT OF THE DEPARTMENT
                          OF HOMELAND SECURITY 
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          

                                                        S. Hrg. 117-436

                      OVERSIGHT OF THE DEPARTMENT
                          OF HOMELAND SECURITY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                           NOVEMBER 16, 2021

                               __________

                          Serial No. J-117-45

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary 
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
              [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]  
         
         
         
         


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                                ------ 
                                
                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
                   
55-482                    WASHINGTON : 2024  

















                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                   RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont            CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa, Ranking 
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California           Member
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             JOHN CORNYN, Texas
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      TED CRUZ, Texas
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              BEN SASSE, Nebraska
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
ALEX PADILLA, California             TOM COTTON, Arkansas
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
                                     THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                     MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
             Joseph Zogby, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
      Kolan L. Davis, Republican Chief Counsel and Staff Director 
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                     NOVEMBER 16, 2021, 10:01 A.M.

                    STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS

                                                                   Page

Durbin, Hon. Richard J., a U.S. Senator from the State of 
  Illinois.......................................................     1
Grassley, Hon. Charles E., a U.S. Senator from the State of Iowa.     4

                               WITNESSES

Witness List.....................................................    66
Mayorkas, Hon. Alejandro, Secretary, U.S. Department of Homeland 
  Security, Washington, DC.......................................     6
    prepared statement...........................................    67

                               QUESTIONS

Questions submitted to Secretary Mayorkas by:
    Ranking Member Grassley......................................    78
    Senator Leahy................................................    82
    Senator Feinstein............................................    84
    Senator Blumenthal...........................................    86
    Senator Graham...............................................    88
    Senator Cornyn...............................................    90
    Senator Lee..................................................    92
    Senator Cruz.................................................    95
    Senator Tillis...............................................    99
    Senator Blackburn............................................   110

                                ANSWERS

Responses of Sectary Mayorkasto questions submitted by:
    Ranking Member Grassley......................................   111
    Senator Leahy................................................   135
    Senator Feinstein............................................   143
    Senator Blumenthal...........................................   149
    Senator Graham...............................................   156
    Senator Cornyn...............................................   179
    Senator Lee..................................................   191
    Senator Cruz.................................................   210
    Senator Tillis...............................................   244
    Senator Blackburn............................................   321

                MISCELLANEOUS SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD

AFL-CIO, Statement for the Record, October 21, 2021..............   335
Government Accountability Project written Statement from Dana L. 
  Gold, Esq., November 16, 2021..................................   331
Kids In Need of Defense (KIND) Statement, November 16, 2021......   337 


 
                      OVERSIGHT OF THE DEPARTMENT
                          OF HOMELAND SECURITY

                              ----------                              

                       TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 16, 2021

                               United States Senate
                                 Committee on the Judiciary
                                                     Washington, DC
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m., in 
Room 106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J. 
Durbin, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Feinstein, 
Whitehouse, Klobuchar, Coons, Blumenthal, Hirono, Booker, 
Padilla, Ossoff, Grassley, Graham, Cornyn, Lee, Cruz, Sasse, 
Hawley, Cotton, Kennedy, Tillis, and Blackburn.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,

           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

    Chair Durbin. The hearing will come to order. Today we're 
holding the first Department of Homeland Security oversight 
hearing since January 16th, 2018. That was the single lone 
occasion during the 4-years of the Trump administration that we 
held an agency-wide DHS oversight hearing. Annual DHS Oversight 
hearings were routine under the Obama administration, and I 
hope to restore that tradition now.
    The Committee will hear directly from the Department's 
highest ranking official, Secretary Alejandro ``Ali'' Mayorkas. 
I thank the Secretary for appearing here today. We've worked 
hard to find this day in your calendar and avoiding pandemics 
and every other challenge that were thrown at us, and I'm glad 
you're with us today.
    Secretary Mayorkas inherited a Department that was really 
in chaos. Under President Trump, DHS lurched from one Secretary 
or Acting Secretary to the next, six in total, only two of whom 
were Senate-confirmed. Don't take it from me. Listen to every 
Senate-confirmed DHS Secretary prior to the Trump 
administration, two Republicans, two Democrats. They jointly 
wrote in January of this year, and I quote, ``This has amounted 
to, on average, a new Secretary in this Department every nine 
and a half months to manage the turbulent challenges of large 
scale cyberattacks, border security, violent white nationalism, 
wildfires in the West, staff shakeups and firings, the gross 
politicization of the Agency's mission, and rulings from the 
Government Accountability Office, and at least one court that 
the most recent former Acting Secretary was serving 
illegally.''
    I might remind you, those were comments by the four 
previous Secretaries of DHS, two Republicans and two Democrats. 
They added, and I quote, ``The leadership vacuum and turmoil at 
DHS may have contributed to the failure to anticipate and 
adequately prepare for the attack on the Capitol.'' The 
reference of course is to the January 6th insurrection. Their 
message was clear: the chaos during the previous administration 
hobbled DHS and put our Nation's security at risk.
    The Department of Homeland Security has important and vast 
responsibilities. The Secretary must deal with natural 
disasters, transportation security, cybersecurity, 
international and domestic terrorism.
    Last October during the previous administration, a DHS 
assessment of domestic terrorism--this was during the previous 
administration--found that violent white supremacy is, quote, 
``the most persistent and lethal threat in the homeland.'' I've 
been sounding the alarm about this threat for many years. In 
2012, I held a hearing following the massacre, by a white 
supremacist, of six worshippers at the Sikh Gurdwara in Oak 
Creek, Wisconsin. I pressed the DHS witness to do more to 
address this threat. Instead, the Department shuttered its only 
office dedicated to combating domestic terrorism and launch the 
controversial Countering Violent Extremist program, which 
focused almost exclusively, not on homegrown terrorists, but on 
American Muslims.
    As the January 6th attack on the Capitol demonstrated, for 
too long our Federal Government has failed to address the 
growing terrorist menace in our back yard. I look forward to 
hearing from the Secretary on this and other important issues 
facing the agencies, and what Congress can do to safeguard our 
Nation.
    My Republican colleagues have strongly held views about the 
Biden administration and immigration. We've heard them many 
times, and I'm sure we'll hear them again this morning. It 
almost seems that they would like us to return to the policies 
of the Trump administration, and perhaps some do. Let me remind 
the Committee, not only were President Trump's policies often 
inhumane and unlawful, they also failed to secure our border 
and fix our badly broken immigration system.
    The Trump administration separated nearly 4,000 children 
from their families between July 1st, 2017, and January 20th, 
2021, under their, quote, ``zero tolerance policy,'' causing 
permanent trauma to these kids.
    The Trump administration shut down legal avenues for 
vulnerable families and children fleeing persecution. This 
created a massive bottleneck at our border, and supersized the 
backlog of applications that are still pending in the courts.
    The former President's attempt to repeal DACA, something 
that I take very personally, threatened young immigrants with 
deportation to countries they may not even remember, until the 
Supreme Court announced in a majority decision that that effort 
was unlawful. This includes more than 200,000 DACA recipients 
who are, quote, ``essential, critical infrastructure workers,'' 
as defined by none other than the Trump administration's 
Department of Homeland Security, many of whom risked their 
lives to keep us all safe during the COVID-19 pandemic.
    The former President's attempts to terminate temporary 
protected status puts hundreds of thousands of long-time U.S. 
residents, including 130,000 essential critical infrastructure 
workers at risk of deportation. The former President threatened 
mass arrests and deportations of millions of undocumented 
immigrants, including more than half of our Nation's 2.4 
million farm workers who have committed no crime and pose no 
threat to this country. This created rampant fear in 
immigration communities around the country, but it did not make 
us safer.
    In fact, the Trump administration endangered our national 
security by literally transferring billions of dollars in 
Department of Defense funds to build the President's so-called 
border wall. American taxpayers, not Mexican taxpayers as 
President Trump had promised so many times, have paid dearly 
for this costly endeavor.
    Every dollar diverted from men and women in uniform for the 
border wall was appropriated by Congress to address a need 
identified in our military. This was not just an attack on 
Congress's power of the purse. It was attack on military 
readiness.
    Secretary Mayorkas, you have a lot on your plate as a 
result of what you inherited. Let me be clear. I believe we can 
secure our border while treating people humanely. It is not 
only possible to do so, it is necessary. I look forward to 
hearing from you about the steps you're taking to enhance 
security, crack down on international criminal organizations, 
and particularly migrant smuggling, and to expedite asylum 
proceedings.
    I also look forward to hearing what you're going to do to 
restore America's longstanding bipartisan tradition of 
welcoming refugees. In the midst of the largest refugee crisis 
in the history of the world, the Trump Administration set 
record lows for refugee admissions 4 years in a row.
    Sadly, in fiscal year 2021, which ended 2 weeks ago, the 
U.S. had admitted only 11,411 refugees, a small, tiny fraction 
of the Biden administration's goal of 62,500, and lower than 
any year during the Trump administration. I believe we must do 
better.
    It is easy to criticize the executive branch, but every 
Member of this Committee needs to look in the mirror, as well. 
Only Congress can actually fix our broken immigration system. 
Of course I'm concerned about the crisis at the southern 
border. Every Member of Congress should be. The question is, 
not only what happened, but what are we going to do about it? 
Congress, the Senate. Are we proud of our failure to pass 
meaningful immigration reform for the last 35 years? Congress 
bears responsibility for this.
    I've tried for many years to pass such legislation. 
Unfortunately, many times, some Republicans obstructed it. They 
filibustered the Dream Act five separate times, and the 
Republican-controlled House blocked the 2013 Comprehensive 
Immigration Reform that would have invested tens of billions of 
dollars in securing our border, something we all share. Even 
President Trump's Acting Homeland Security Secretary Kevin 
McAleenan said that if he had passed the bill, quote, ``We'd be 
a lot more secure on the border.''
    This year I convened bipartisan immigration negotiations 
over several months. We were unable to make progress. In fact, 
there were some who came forward and said we have to cut legal 
immigration in the United States. Now we have another chance. 
I'm working to pass immigration reform through reconciliation, 
and still unresolved what that will be, but I hope it is 
achieved.
    The overwhelming majority of Americans support a pathway to 
citizenship for undocumented immigrants, many of whom risked 
their lives to get to America and to stay here and risk their 
lives again during the pandemic. This is a critical component 
of our economic recovery and rebuilding communities and cannot 
wait any longer.
    With that, I turn to Ranking Member Grassley for his 
opening statement.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES E. GRASSLEY,

             A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF IOWA

    Senator Grassley. I'm going to start by reading the oath 
that Cabinet people take before they start their job.
    ``I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the 
Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign 
and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the 
same, that I take this obligation freely without any mental 
reservation or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and 
faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am 
about to enter, so help me God.''
    Yesterday on TV, if you were watching and it was reported, 
but you could also see people crossing the border in violation 
of our laws that are passed under that constitution.
    I'm asked by Iowans, ``Senator Grassley, what are you going 
to do about the crisis at the border?'' My usual answer is, and 
I hope it's not interpreted by my constituents as avoiding my 
responsibilities, but I say, ``We've passed all kinds of laws 
over the last several decades making it illegal to enter the 
country unless you come here with our permission.'' There's 
enough laws on the books, but the laws aren't being enforced.
    I'm glad that we're finally holding a hearing where we can 
discuss the unprecedented national security and humanitarian 
crisis the Biden administration has created at our southern 
border. U.S. Customs and Border Protection recently announced 
that it had one and seven tenths million encounters with 
illegal immigrants at the southern border, fiscal year 2021. 
That's the highest number ever recorded. It's higher than the 
individual populations of at least 11 States.
    Of that one and seven tenths million, over one and four 
tenths million encounters took place in the last 8 months of 
fiscal year 2021, when the Biden administration was in office 
and congressional Democrats had a majority in Congress.
    In a mere months of unified control of the Federal 
Government, the Biden administration congressional Democrats 
have presided over one and four tenths million encounters with 
illegal immigrants attempting to cross the southern border. 
That on its own is an astounding number because under this 
administration, children have been retained--detained under the 
same conditions for which congressional Democrats loudly and 
repeatedly criticized the previous administration.
    Make no mistake. This crisis is a direct result of 
irresponsible policies, reckless policies, dangerous 
immigration policies pursued by the administration and by you, 
Secretary Mayorkas, and political leadership of the Department 
headquarters, ICE, and Customs and Border Patrol.
    Don't just take my word for it. On March the 10th, Reuters 
reported that the government of Mexico was worried that the 
Biden administration's asylum policies were, quote, ``stoking 
illegal immigration and creating business for organized 
crime.'' It's been reported that cartels are getting rich. You 
pay--you have to pay them to cross the border, to cross the Rio 
Grande.
    Former Chief of the U.S. Border Patrol Rodney Scott sent a 
letter to congressional leadership on September the 11th 
stating that, quote, ``the seismic shift in border security and 
immigration policy that was initiated on January 20th, 2021,'' 
end of quote, created the current crisis at our southern 
border, and that this crisis constitutes a national security 
threat to our Nation. All you've got to do is go back three or 
four months. We arrested two people from Yemen that were on 
terrorist lists of the United States.
    Scott served as Border Patrol agent and Federal law 
enforcement agent for over 29 years and served under five 
different Presidential administrations of both parties, 
including the Biden administration. He said that what he 
witnessed under this administration was, quote, ``a lack of any 
meaningful effort to secure our borders.'' In his professional 
assessment, quote, ``The U.S. Border Patrol is rapidly losing 
the situational awareness required to know who and what is 
entering our homeland.''
    Mr. Scott also said that Secretary Mayorkas was, quote, 
``choosing to ignore the sound recommendations of career 
government leadership despite his own admissions that he agrees 
with them'', end of quote. This sorry state of affairs is 
entirely preventable. Unfortunately, due to the reckless 
policies of this administration and the Department of Homeland 
Security, it was also entirely predictable.
    When you terminate physical barrier constructions, when you 
severely restrict the ability of ICE to deport illegal 
immigrants, when you terminate the Remain in Mexico policy, 
when you roll back asylum cooperative agreements, when you gut 
Title 42, when you openly support sanctuary cities' policies, 
then you should not be surprised when there's a surge at the 
southern border.
    When you allow the ACLU and open border immigration 
activists, rather than career law enforcement professionals, to 
dictate the terms of your immigration and border policies, then 
you shouldn't be surprised when record-shattering numbers of 
people start showing up at the borders to take advantage of 
that situation.
    When you run DHS like it's an abolish ICE fan club, you 
shouldn't be surprised when you have an immigration crisis on 
your hands.
    The most solemn responsibility of the Department of 
Homeland Security is to protect the people of the United 
States. One of the most solemn responsibilities of the 
President and the Secretary of the United States is to uphold 
the rule of law in the United States according to the oath that 
was taken by everybody in the Cabinet.
    In choosing to actively ignore the immigration laws passed 
by Congress, and in choosing to pursue policies that encourage 
unprecedented levels of uncontrolled illegal immigration to the 
United States, this administration and this Department have 
failed on both counts. I'm glad, after several months of trying 
to get this hearing, we finally have an opportunity in public 
to discuss with these leaders these issues and to hold these 
leaders to account. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Grassley. We welcome the 
Secretary of Homeland Security, Hon. Ali Mayorkas to testify 
before the Committee.
    The mechanics for today's hearing are well known to the 
Members. I will swear in Secretary Mayorkas. He will have 5 
minutes to provide his opening statement. There will be a round 
of questions. Each Senator will have 7 minutes. Seven minutes. 
Please, no new questions after the 7-minutes are reached. 
Please try to remain within your allotted time.
    Following the first round of questions, if Senators wish to 
ask additional questions, we will have a second round with 3 
minutes each.
    Secretary Mayorkas, if you'd please stand. Raise your right 
hand.
    [Witness is sworn in.]
    Chair Durbin. Let the record reflect that the Secretary 
answered in the affirmative. Secretary Mayorkas, the floor is 
yours.

             STATEMENT OF HON. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS,

                 SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF

               HOMELAND SECURITY, WASHINGTON, DC

    Secretary Mayorkas. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, Ranking 
Member Grassley, and distinguished Members of this Committee. 
Thank you for the opportunity to join you today.
    Every day, the 250,000 men and women of the Department of 
Homeland Security confront critical and complex challenges as 
we work to achieve our noble mission of safeguarding the 
American people, our homeland, and our values. The dedication 
and talent of our extraordinary workforce is unsurpassed, and I 
am privileged to serve alongside them.
    Our Department is expansive, the third largest in the 
Federal Government. Our more than 20 agencies and offices join 
forces and work together to fulfill the many different 
responsibilities we have. From investigating, apprehending, and 
helping bring to justice those who heinously exploit children, 
to rescuing those in distress at sea, our personnel do so much 
in the service of the American people.
    In the short time I have, I will highlight our work in the 
fight against terrorism. Enhancing our cybersecurity, 
rebuilding our immigration system, bringing to safety those who 
supported us in war, and combating climate change. I look 
forward to speaking of so much more in response to your 
questions.
    First, our work in the fight against terrorism. Over the 
years, we have built a rigorous and multilayered security 
screening and vetting architecture to combat the evolving 
terrorist threat. We remain ever vigilant in protecting our 
homeland from foreign terrorists, seeking to do us harm while 
combating homegrown and domestic violent extremists who now 
pose the most significant and persistent terrorism-related 
threat facing our country.
    Last week, we issued our fourth National Terrorism Advisory 
System bulletin in line with our commitment to communicate with 
the American public about the evolving threat landscape facing 
our homeland today. Over the past 9 months, we established a 
dedicated domestic terrorism branch within our Office of 
Intelligence and Analysis, launched the Center for Prevention 
Programs and Partnership to provide communities with evidence-
based tools to prevent individuals from radicalizing to 
violence, and redoubled our efforts to share timely and 
actionable information with our partners across every level of 
government.
    This year for the first time, we designated combating 
domestic extremism, a national priority area in our FEMA grant 
programs, resulting in at least $77 million being spent on 
capabilities to detect and protect against this threat 
nationwide.
    Second, as cyberthreats have grown, so have our efforts to 
strengthen our Nation's cybersecurity resilience and protect 
our critical infrastructure. Ransomware incidents have been on 
the rise with victims paying an estimated $350 million in 
ransoms last year, a 311-percent increase over the prior year. 
This summer, alongside other Federal partners, DHS launched 
stopransomware.gov, the first whole-of-Government website to 
combat ransomware by helping organizations of all sizes 
mitigate their risk and increase their resilience.
    Through CISA, our Nation's cybersecurity quarterback, we 
announced the creation of the Joint Cyber Defense 
Collaborative, a public private partnership that will prevent 
and reduce the impacts of cyber intrusions and ensure a unified 
response when they occur. Two weeks ago, CISA issued a binding 
operational directive requiring Federal civilian departments 
and agencies to protect against more than 250 known cyber 
vulnerabilities. TSA issued two new security directives to 
better protect our Nation's critical pipelines, and the Agency 
continues to explore additional steps to expand protections for 
surface transportation, aviation, and rail transit entities.
    CISA and our Office of Intelligence and Analysis are 
working with all 50 States, local jurisdictions, and election 
technology experts to keep our elections secure. We are 
developing a more skilled, robust, and diverse cybersecurity 
workforce. In May, we initiated the Department's largest and 
most successful cybersecurity hiring initiative in its history. 
Yesterday, we launched the DHS Cybersecurity Service to enable 
our Department to better compete for top-tier and mission-
critical cybersecurity talent.
    Third, we are addressing irregular migration and working to 
rebuild a safe, orderly, and humane immigration system. The 
challenge of doing so is made more difficult by the ongoing 
impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, and a system that was 
disseminated by the prior administration. We must invest in 
addressing root causes, creating legal pathways, and ensuring 
swift adjudication of asylum claims. The immigration system 
though is fundamentally broken, a fact that everyone agrees 
upon. Congress must pass legislation to fix it.
    In the meantime, we are taking action within our 
authorities. We are enforcing our immigration laws, including 
those of accountability and humanitarian relief. We are 
enforcing expedited removal, operating repatriation flights, 
and investigating and disrupting the smuggling and drug 
trafficking organizations.
    We have leveraged FEMA's coordination capabilities, 
activated our volunteer force of employees from across the 
Department, and expanded our processing capacity. We have 
proposed a new regulation to streamline the asylum process to 
fairly and efficiently adjudicate claims, resulting in the 
prompt approval of those who qualify and the prompt removal of 
those who do not. We are expanding safe and legal pathways such 
as the Central American Minors Program and the Haitian Family 
Reunification Program.
    We increased the number of H-2B visas available for fiscal 
year 2021, creating the opportunity for individuals to work 
legally and on a temporary basis in the United States in 
positions that would not otherwise be filled. We also added six 
new countries to the list of those eligible for H-2A and H-2B 
temporary worker visas.
    We are acting to protect Dreamers by preserving and 
fortifying the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals policy. 
We are focusing our civil immigration enforcement priorities on 
individuals who pose a current threat to national security, 
public safety, and border security. We are focusing our 
worksite enforcement actions on unscrupulous employers who 
exploit the vulnerable, create an unfair labor market, and harm 
law-abiding employers who follow the rules. We are performing 
this work with an unwavering commitment to protecting privacy, 
civil rights, and civil liberties, and making risk-based 
investments to combat real threats to our communities.
    Fourth, the Department is proud to lead the coordination of 
Operation Allies Welcome, our whole-of-government effort to 
resettle vulnerable Afghan nationals in our country. A 
significant percentage of these individuals work for the U.S. 
Government, or are coalition forces, or are a family member of 
someone who did. Many are family members of American citizens 
and green card holders. Others worked as journalists, human 
rights activists, or on humanitarian missions.
    Along with our law enforcement and intelligence community 
partners, we are employing a multilayered and rigorous 
screening and vetting process that begins overseas before 
individuals are cleared to travel to the United States, and it 
continues upon their arrival in this country.
    We are also ensuring that Afghan nationals arriving in the 
United States undergo medical screenings, receive appropriate 
vaccinations, and can build a new life for themselves and their 
families. This work is being done in close collaboration with 
State and local governments, nongovernmental organizations, and 
the private sector. We are grateful to Congress for providing 
funding to support this historic cause.
    Finally, we are combating the existential threat posed by 
climate change. To help communities recover and remain 
resilient, President Biden doubled the size of the Building 
Resilient Infrastructure and Communities Program, dedicating $1 
billion to wildfire resilience efforts, flood control 
initiatives, and much more. DHS also authorized nearly $3.5 
billion in hazard mitigation grant program funding to help 
States, tribes, and territories adapt and prepare for the 
impacts of the climate crisis. Further, FEMA revised its 
policies to overcome historic inequities in its aid programs.
    Two decades after 9/11, the Department of Homeland Security 
remains focused on protecting our country from evolving 
threats. We can execute this critical mission because of our 
incredible workforce, and our key partners, the Members of this 
Committee, our allies abroad, the private sector, 
nongovernmental organizations, and local communities.
    Thank you for your continued support. I look forward to 
answering your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Secretary Mayorkas appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. One of the issues 
that was raised by Senator Grassley, and we've certainly heard 
repeated over, is the response to the zero tolerance policy of 
the Trump administration. It's my understanding that President 
Biden's Interagency Taskforce on the Reunification of Families 
identified 3,914 children separated from their parents at the 
U.S.-Mexico border between July 2017 and January 2021 when 
President Trump left office.
    Of these, 2,073 have been reunited with their parents 
through previous court orders and via the efforts of this 
taskforce. That leaves approximately 1800 children who were 
separated during the Trump years who according to this 
taskforce report have not been reunited with their parents. 
What is the current status of these children?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for 
your question. I had the opportunity to actually interview 
parents whose children were ripped from their arms under the 
prior administration. Tragically, the trauma of that 
separation, even though they are now physically reunited, 
continues.
    I lead that taskforce, and we have a wonderful executive 
director who works day to day in the effort. We have taken 
quite a number of measures to reunite the families who were 
separated under the prior administration.
    We recently launched a website where families who were 
indeed separated can register for relief. We are working very 
closely with counsel for their families. We are working with 
the governments of the nations of origin to accelerate the 
provision of passports for parents who do indeed want to come 
here.
    Chair Durbin. Let me ask you, Mr. Secretary. You've heard 
the criticism that you're doing exactly the same thing that 
Trump did with zero tolerance. Are you, in fact, forcibly 
separating children from their families without good cause?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Absolutely not. Let me also say that we 
are working with international organizations, including the 
International Organization for Migration, to work with trusted 
voices, to rebuild the trust of the parents that the prior 
administration destroyed so they have the courage to come 
forward and be reunited with their children.
    Chair Durbin. Mr. Secretary, you know my interest in the 
Dream Act and DACA, as well as DAPA and the efforts that 
Congress has been involved in. We had court decisions on 
President Trump's effort to eliminate DACA protection for the 
thousands who received it. What efforts is DHS making to reduce 
the backlog of DACA renewal applications? At the end of June, I 
understand 84,000 requests were pending, including 13,000 
renewals for more than 120 days. What are you doing about it?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Mr. Chairman, our efforts are well 
underway in that regard. We are prioritizing applications based 
upon their expiration date so that we make sure that no lapses 
in Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals eligibility occur. 
Also, when we renew an application, we are making it effective 
upon the date of expiration so that there is no gap in 
eligibility of----
    Chair Durbin. What's the backlog now?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Mr. Chairman, I'll have to get back to 
you on the precise number of that backlog, and I will do so.
    Chair Durbin. I hope you'll do it promptly.
    Secretary Mayorkas. We have worked very, very vigilantly to 
reduce it.
    Chair Durbin. The phrase ``catch and release'' is used by 
your critics to suggest that some people who manage to get 
across the border and make some claim to have a right under 
asylum law to be in the United States are released and never 
seen again, that they somehow go into the Nation at large, 
don't show up for their hearings, and that it's worse now than 
it was under the Trump administration. Is that true?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Mr. Chairman, the term ``catch and 
release'' has been used very loosely for many, many years 
across different administrations. Individuals who are not 
removed, who are not expelled under the CDC's Title 42 
authority are placed into immigration enforcement proceedings. 
Those who abscond are a priority for removal under the 
immigration enforcement priorities that I issued on September 
30th.
    Chair Durbin. Do they show up at their hearings?
    Secretary Mayorkas. The great majority do, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Are there conditions that you can suggest 
would make it more likely that they show up at their hearings?
    Secretary Mayorkas. We are imposing those conditions, Mr. 
Chairman. We have alternatives. The detention for those who are 
not in immigration detention. We have imposed conditions of 
parole with alternatives to detention, and those conditions 
better assure their appearance in court. We are communicating 
with individuals most effectively because sometimes, it is not 
an intent to abscond, but a misunderstanding of the 
requirements in a very labyrinthian immigration system. We are 
really focused on this effort.
    Chair Durbin. Another one of the Fox greatest hits are that 
you don't do COVID-19 testing, and that in fact, you're turning 
these migrants loose at our border without a test and they are 
spreading COVID-19 across our country. Is that true?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Mr. Chairman, we test migrants. We 
place them in isolation or quarantine as the results of those 
tests require. We have built an architecture with 
nongovernmental organizations and across the Federal enterprise 
to test migrants. In fact, when nongovernmental organizations 
assist us in that effort, we have provided for FEMA 
reimbursement for them through the States, if those States 
cooperate with us.
    Chair Durbin. We know the smugglers are endangering and 
exploiting those migrants who are anxious to find a better 
place to live. We saw that just recently in Del Rio, Texas when 
so many Haitian immigrants seemed to appear almost by design, 
tens of thousands of them. How did they happen to all come 
together during that period of time?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Mr. Chairman, we have a number of 
efforts directed at tackling of the smuggling and trafficking 
organizations. Operation Sentinel is one of them, where we are 
going after their logistics and watching the money and 
apprehending them that way. I have met several times with the 
Attorney General of Mexico and assisted in the apprehension of 
organizational leaders. We are very focused on the 
organizations that exploit the vulnerable and facilitate 
irregular migration and illegal crossings.
    Chair Durbin. My last question. What is the backlog in our 
immigration courts? I understand it was 1.4 million cases at 
the beginning of the Biden administration. Has there been any 
progress made?
    Secretary Mayorkas. There has been modest progress, Mr. 
Chairman. This is something that we are very focused on. This 
has been an enduring challenge. It speaks to the fact that our 
immigration system is broken and in dire need of legislative 
fix.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Grassley.
    Senator Grassley. Welcome, Secretary. On October the 28th, 
The Wall Street Journal reported that your Department and 
several other Federal agencies are involved in talks to offer 
massive financial payments to illegal immigrants. This is being 
done in order to settle a litigation regarding the zero 
tolerance enforcement policy. As you can imagine, many 
Americans think it's a pretty outrageous idea to offer massive 
taxpayer-funded payments to illegal immigrants who broke our 
laws, particularly in the middle of a record-shattering border 
crisis that this administration has created.
    The Journal made it clear that DHS is involved in these 
discussions. As the leader of your Department, presumably 
you've been kept in the loop. Were you aware of the payment 
amounts under consideration?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Ranking Member Grassley, the Department 
of Justice is leading the negotiations in litigation arising 
from the family separation policy of the prior administration. 
I am not involved in those negotiations. I must defer to the 
Department of Justice. Our focus in leading the taskforce is to 
reunify the families who were separated under the prior 
administration.
    Senator Grassley. Okay. Mr. Secretary, the White House 
Deputy Press Secretary and the ACLU have already offered public 
comments on these settlement discussions, so we expect you to 
answer questions about DHS's involvement in the case. You're 
saying that there's no involvement?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I am not aware of our involvement in 
the Federal Tort Claims Act that are being handled by the 
Department of Justice. My focus is on the reunification of the 
families, the parents who were separated from their children.
    Senator Grassley. Under the Department of Defense Death 
Gratuity Program, the family of a service member who dies on 
active duty receives a tax-free payment of $100,000. Under what 
circumstances if any do you think it's appropriate for an 
illegal immigrant who broke our laws to receive more money from 
the Government than the family of a fallen service member 
receives under that program?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Ranking Member Grassley, when an 
individual sacrifices his or her life in the service of our 
country wearing our Nation's uniform, the family and all loved 
ones make that sacrifice as well, and my heart goes out to the 
families of those whom we have lost.
    I must again defer to the Department of Justice with 
respect to the negotiation in litigation of Federal Tort 
Claims. That is not within my province.
    Senator Grassley. The Wall Street Journal piece indicates 
that at least one of your Department's attorneys complained 
that the illegal immigrant payout under discussion would be 
more than some 9/11 victims' families received under that 
program. Under what circumstances, if any, do you think it's 
appropriate for an illegal immigrant who broke our laws to 
receive more money from the Government than any one family in 
the 9/11 victims?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I had the heartbroken honor of meeting 
a number of families who lost loved ones as a result of 9/11 on 
the 20th anniversary of that tragic day, and we are devoted to 
the well-being of those families.
    Again, Ranking Member Grassley, the resolution, the 
negotiation of the Federal Tort Claims Act arising from family 
separation is not within the jurisdiction of the Department of 
Homeland Security.
    Senator Grassley. I'm not asking you to comment on ongoing 
negotiations or legal matters. I'm asking you for your opinion 
on when it's appropriate for an illegal immigrant to receive 
more money from the Government than the family of 9/11 victims. 
I don't think you're going to answer that question, so I'm 
going to go on.
    There are approximately one and two tenths million illegal 
immigrants in the United States with final orders of removal. 
These are people who have received due process and been ordered 
removed by an immigration judge. In your September 30th memo, 
you said, quote, ``that the fact that an individual is a 
removable noncitizen should not alone be the basis of an 
enforcement action against them'', end of quote. Does that 
reasoning apply to the one and two tenths million illegal 
immigrants who have received due process and been given a final 
order of removal by an immigration judge?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Ranking Member Grassley, the policy 
that I issued on September 30th I drew from tremendous 
experience, not only as a member of the Department of Homeland 
Security, but as a Federal prosecutor. We cannot remove 1.2 
million individuals, nor can we remove more than 11 million 
undocumented individuals, individuals who are unlawfully 
present in the United States who might not have final orders 
of----
    Senator Grassley. You might be right on that point. My 
question is, does the reasoning apply to the 1.2 million 
illegal immigrants who have received due process? I just want 
to know if it applies to that group of people.
    Secretary Mayorkas. It certainly does. However, I would not 
necessarily accept the fact that all of them have received due 
process.
    Senator Grassley. Do you agree that all these individuals 
should be removed from the United States? I guess you said you 
couldn't remove one and two tenths million. Should any of them 
be removed?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Of course. I do believe that 
individuals who pose a public safety threat, who pose a 
national security threat, who pose a border security threat 
should be removed, and we should be smart and effective in our 
use of resources, and we should focus on the well-being of our 
communities and prioritize individuals for removal, just as I 
did as an Assistant United States Attorney, just as any 
responsible prosecuting office does in this country.
    Senator Grassley. I heard you say you want to do your job. 
Let me ask you this. Last question. Have any migrant families 
at all been separated during the Biden administration? Were any 
migrant families separated during the Obama administration 
during which you served multiple senior positions at DHS, 
including Deputy Secretary?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Ranking Member Grassley, no member of a 
family was separated, consistent with the policy of the prior 
administration, to purposefully separate a child from the 
parent for the sole purpose of deterring irregular migration of 
others. We ended that cruel policy on day one of this 
administration.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Grassley.
    Senator Grassley. I wish I had an answer if any members 
were----
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Grassley. Senator 
Feinstein.
    Senator Feinstein. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman and Mr. 
Mayorkas. I've known you for a long time. It's very good to see 
you sitting there, and I thank you for your service.
    I want to ask a controversial question, and it has to do 
with guns. Each year--last month, TSA announced that their 
officers have seized 4,495 firearms at security points this 
year. That's a new record in the Agency's 20-year history. 
Having an average of more than a dozen firearms seized at 
airport checkpoints each day is really troubling. What is 
happening? To what do you attribute this increase, and how is 
TSA combatting this very concerning issue?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, it is wonderful to see you, 
and I am grateful for the support you have provided me 
throughout my enforcement career.
    Senator Feinstein. Could you speak up, please? I don't want 
to miss it.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I just expressed my gratitude to you, 
Senator, for your support throughout my enforcement career, and 
it is wonderful to see you.
    Senator Feinstein. Oh, thank you. Thank you.
    Secretary Mayorkas. It is difficult to understand the cause 
for the increase in the carrying of firearms, the attempted 
carrying of firearms, through security checkpoints in airports. 
I can assure you, Senator that TSA is doing everything possible 
to both interdict that and to prevent it from continuing to 
occur. We have been very robust in our communication to the 
American public that that offense will be dealt with criminally 
if appropriate, and certainly civilly, as well. We must put an 
end to that. It jeopardizes people in the airports, and of 
course, our own personnel, our frontline personnel, who risk 
their lives every day in the service of our country.
    Senator Feinstein. I thank you for that. Since 2012, a 
total of 12.7 million acres have burned in my State. That's one 
out of every eight acres in California. Fifty-three percent of 
the forest in California is Federal. Federal salaries were way 
down. We have now changed that to enable the position of 
wildland firefighter to be boosted substantially.
    What can your agency do to help control fire, which is 
going to get worse as the climate gets larger, and particularly 
in big States, with 53 percent of our forest land in California 
being Federal?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, we're doing a number of things 
under the President's leadership to address the existential 
threat of climate change and wildfires in the West is one 
example of that threat. We have increased grant dollars to 
States and local communities to build resilience to fires and 
importantly, to focus on preventive efforts. Our Office of 
Science and Technology is developing in-ground sensors that can 
better detect when a fire may actually break out.
    We have an all-of-Department effort in this because we 
understand both the gravity and the breadth of the threat that 
climate change including the spread of wildfires opposes to our 
well-being.
    Senator Feinstein. Do you support an increase in the salary 
of wildland firefighters that, in terms of comparison with 
California, they're noncompetitive, and we have 500 vacancies? 
We have the legislation pending to correct that, and I would 
hope that you would support it.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I look forward to doing so, Senator.
    Senator Feinstein. Thank you very much. Thanks, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Feinstein. Senator Graham.
    Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Glad you're 
recovered from COVID, and to the extent we work together, I'd 
like to do that.
    Let's just pull back a little bit, just ask some basic 
questions. Do you believe that the Biden immigration policies 
are successful?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I think rebuilding a broken 
immigration system and rebuilding a dismantled one takes time 
and we're on the road to success.
    Senator Graham. You think we're on the right track as a 
nation?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I do.
    Senator Graham. Okay. How would you grade yourself?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I'm a tough grader on myself, 
and I give myself an A for effort, investment, in mission, and 
support of our workforce.
    Senator Graham. Okay. Do you think you're doing a better 
job than the Trump administration?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I believe in the policies that 
we are putting forward, and I condemn a number of the policies 
that were promulgated in the prior administration.
    Senator Graham. You think we have more control over the 
border now than we did under Trump?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, we're very focused on the----
    Senator Graham. That's not the question. Do you think we 
have more control over the border now than we did under the 
last administration?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I think we have more control that is 
consistent with our values as a Nation.
    Senator Graham. Okay. Was Afghanistan a successful 
withdrawal?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, the evacuation that the 
Department of Defense and the Department of State led was 
historic in evacuating so many individuals and----
    Senator Graham. Of those that are evacuated, how many of 
them were vetted before they got on the plane?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, it is our policy to vet----
    Senator Graham. That's a simple question. How many of them 
were vetted before they got on the plane?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Out of Afghanistan?
    Senator Graham. Yes.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I cannot speak to that. It is our 
policy----
    Senator Graham. Okay. You can't tell us how many people 
were vetted before they got on the plane to come to America.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Oh, I'm sorry. If you're speaking of 
the plane to come to America, let me, if I may, Senator, 
explain the process. Because we, working with our allies----
    Senator Graham. Okay. Here's the question. Very simple. 
Those that got on the plane----
    Secretary Mayorkas. For America, it is our policy to vet--
--
    Senator Graham. Please. Please listen. Please listen to my 
question.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I apologize.
    Senator Graham. To those who got on the C-17s and other 
planes, how many of them were vetted before they got on the 
plane by American officials?
    Secretary Mayorkas. To the United States, it is our policy 
to vet and screen 100 percent of them.
    Senator Graham. So 100 percent of those people that got on 
the plane were vetted. That's your testimony under oath?
    Secretary Mayorkas. It is our policy to do so.
    Senator Graham. I don't care what your policy is. I'm 
asking, how many people were vetted before they got on the 
plane? Do you know the answer?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I----
    Senator Graham. If you don't know, just say I don't know.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I do not know if anyone 
boarded a plane that was not fully screened and vetted. 
However, I----
    Senator Graham. Can you tell me that all the people that 
got on the plane were vetted?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Absolutely. I can tell you that all of 
the individuals----
    Senator Graham. Before they got on the plane.
    Secretary Mayorkas. If I may, Senator. All of the 
individuals who arrived in the United States have been screened 
and vetted.
    Senator Graham. Listen, this--I'm not trying to trick you. 
I'm trying to ask a simple question. We've had thousands of 
people that got on C-17s and flew out in the most chaotic 
situation I've seen since the fall of Saigon, and I'm asking 
you, before they got on the plane, how many of them were vetted 
by the United States? Can you tell me what percentage?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I would posit, and I will 
confirm this, that well over 99 percent of them were fully 
screened and vetted before they boarded a flight. If in fact 
any of them----
    Senator Graham. Where do you get that information from?
    Secretary Mayorkas. May I, Senator?
    Senator Graham. Sure.
    Secretary Mayorkas. If, in fact, they were not, they were 
screened and vetted while in flight. If any derogatory 
information was adduced, they were placed in immigration 
enforcement proceedings and in removal.
    Senator Graham. You do know you're under oath.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes.
    Senator Graham. Are you telling this Committee under oath 
that 99 percent of the people who got on these planes in 
Afghanistan were vetted by our Government before they got on 
that plane?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I want to be very clear because 
precision----
    Senator Graham. Because you're not.
    Secretary Mayorkas. No, no, no. Senator, if I may. You are 
asking me about planes from transit countries, the third 
countries----
    Senator Graham. I'm talking about people that got on the 
plane at Kabul Airport.
    Secretary Mayorkas. No, I can't speak to that.
    Senator Graham. That's--okay. Good. Of the 1.7 million 
people who have come here illegally, how many of them have been 
released into the country?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I can break that down to the 
best of my ability. Nearly 1 million, approximately I would say 
965,000, have been subject to expulsion under Title 42 of the 
United States Code. I believe----
    Senator Graham. Okay. That gives us how many left?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I believe approximately 40,000 have 
been removed under our immigration authorities that we in the 
Department of Homeland Security----
    Senator Graham. Okay. Slow down. Where that gets us, to 
like 840,000 people?
    Secretary Mayorkas. No, no, no. Approximately 965,000 were 
expelled. Approximately 40,000 have been removed. Approximately 
125,000 unaccompanied children have been transferred to the 
custody and the shelter of Health and Human Services. The 
balance are, to the best of my knowledge, in immigration 
enforcement proceedings where----
    Senator Graham. What does that leave us? How many people 
are still here? Of the 1.7 million, how many people are still 
here?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I would estimate approximately 375,000 
are----
    Senator Graham. Still here.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Graham. Okay.
    Secretary Mayorkas. That is my best estimated----
    Senator Graham. Do you believe that if you have an 
immigration hearing and there's a final order of deportation, 
that person should be removed?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I do.
    Senator Graham. Okay. Why is 1 million people still here 
after they get a final order of deportation?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator Graham, as I responded to----
    Senator Graham. Is the system working?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Oh, the immigration system is broken, 
has been broken for decades----
    Senator Graham. Let me just say this. It's really broken if 
a million people have been ordered to leave and they haven't 
left.
    Do you believe that the Remain in Mexico policy instituted 
by the Trump administration is cruel?
    Secretary Mayorkas. As it was implemented, I do.
    Senator Graham. Do you support permanently doing away with 
the Remain in Mexico policy?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I do.
    Senator Graham. Do you think that will increase illegal 
immigration if we do?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I do not because of the other efforts 
that we have underway.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Graham. Senator 
Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman. Secretary, if I 
could direct your attention to cybersecurity for a moment.
    There are 57 inspectors general in the Federal service. 
About half of them are appointed by the President and confirmed 
by the Senate, and the other half are direct agency appointees. 
That's an awful lot of inspector general offices to have 
cybersecurity experience at the levels that we require. I'm 
wondering what the Department, specifically the Cybersecurity 
and Infrastructure Security Agency, CISA, is doing to 
coordinate with those inspectors general and make sure that 
they are operating at the kind of levels of expertise that we 
need to defend their agencies against cyberattacks.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I know that CISA, its acronym, 
the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, just 
issued a binding operational directive to Federal agencies and 
departments across the enterprise to make sure that they are 
addressing known cyber vulnerabilities.
    Senator Whitehouse. Why don't we move this offline, and we 
can follow-up with a question for the record or you can have 
the right person in your Agency call.
    I think that our cyber expertise in the inspector general 
corps should be concentrated someplace so that all these 
inspectors general have access to expertise, and we don't have 
to develop it in 57 different inspector general offices. I 
think that's an important role for CISA to undertake. If you 
could follow-up with me on what your plans are to bring all 57 
inspectors general up to speed on cyber-security and whether 
some mechanism is required to do that. Would you do that for me 
in a response to a question for the record?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I most certainly will, Senator.
    Senator Whitehouse. Okay. We'll take that as a question for 
the record.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    I also wanted to mention to you that Senator Graham and I 
have a piece of legislation to plug some of the enforcement 
holes regarding cyberattacks. It does really four basic things. 
One is to make certain cybercrimes predicates for RICO and for 
money laundering. Do you remember from your AUSA days how 
important something as predicate can be?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I certainly do.
    Senator Whitehouse. The second thing it does is it allows 
for the Department of Justice to enjoin and shut down botnets 
before they're engaged in fraud. We've had a lot of testimony 
in this Committee that there actually is really no good use for 
a botnet, and to wait around until they actually go off and are 
engaged in fraud is a real mistake. We expand the ability of 
the Department to go to court and get injunctions against 
botnets, which they've used very successfully. That's the 
Department of Justice. We make it a new offense to attack 
America's critical infrastructure with cyberattacks.
    Finally, as you know, there are people who make it their 
expertise to provide means of access for criminals to, and 
through, the internet to attack American victims. Those 
intermediaries who are just selling access, it's very hard to 
charge. We have an offense for intermediaries who knowingly 
sell access to criminals to attack American institutions. We 
are working on getting that into the National Defense Bill 
that's going to be under consideration the next few weeks in 
Congress, and I would like to ask you to weigh in in favor of 
that once you've had the chance to review that with your team. 
Would you do the necessary review and then get back to me and 
let me know that you will weigh in in support of that?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I most certainly will, Senator.
    Senator Whitehouse. Great. That's all I had. Thanks, 
Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse. Senator 
Cornyn.
    Senator Cornyn. Secretary Mayorkas, there have been about 
56,000 unaccompanied children that have come across the border 
since President Biden became President. As you know, once these 
children are placed with sponsors in the United States, there's 
a requirement that there be a 30-day follow-up telephone call 
to determine their status. You're aware of that, aren't you?
    Secretary Mayorkas. That is within the domain of Health and 
Human Services, Senator. I am not intimately familiar with the 
process once the child arrives in the shelter and care of HHS.
    Senator Cornyn. You don't know what happens to the children 
once they're placed with a sponsor?
    Secretary Mayorkas. It is our responsibility in the 
Department of Homeland Security to transfer the unaccompanied 
child within 72 hours to the care and custody of Health and 
Human Services. I know that HHS, of course, is responsible to 
place that child with a responsible family member or relative, 
and I don't know the details of the HHS process.
    Senator Cornyn. Once you hand them off to DHS, you wash 
your hands of the--of that burden? Would it surprise you to 
know that just this last fiscal year in the 30-day follow-up 
calls to sponsors of unaccompanied children, 18 percent of them 
did not answer the telephone, and there's been no subsequent 
follow-up on these children placed with sponsors, many of whom 
are not even related to these children? Frankly, the Biden 
administration doesn't know whether they're being forced into 
labor, being trafficked for sex, being abused, or neglected. 
Would that shock you to learn that as many as 18 percent of 
those children that the Federal Government has simply lost?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, that would indeed surprise me, 
and I would respectfully disagree with your characterization of 
our responsibility. We don't wash our hands of a burden when 
we're dealing with a----
    Senator Cornyn. If you don't know what happened to them, 
they don't answer the phone once they've been placed with a 
sponsor, how would you characterize the complete neglect of the 
welfare of that child after the sponsor doesn't answer the 
phone 30 days after the children have been placed with a 
sponsor? How would you characterize that?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I have confidence in the 
dedication of the men and women of the Department of Health and 
Human Services to act in the best interest of those children, 
and I defer your question to those dedicated men and women. 
That is----
    Senator Cornyn. I'm not asking about them. I'm asking about 
the policies and procedures of the Biden administration. 
Apparently, no one in the Biden administration cares about 
those roughly 10,000 children that don't respond, their 
sponsors don't respond to follow-up telephone calls. Frankly, 
we don't know what happened to them, good, bad, or indifferent.
    Let me ask you about another topic. Recently, you issued 
new enforcement guidelines September the 30th, 2021. Are you 
familiar with the notion of push factors and pull factors? I'm 
confident you are.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes, I am, Senator.
    Senator Cornyn. Push factors are violence, poverty, desire 
for a better life, things we all as human beings understand. 
Pull factors are incentives for people to make the dangerous 
journey to the United States in the tender mercies of the drug 
cartels and the criminal organizations. Do you agree, maybe not 
entirely with my characterization, but those are pull factors?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I understand your point, Senator.
    Senator Cornyn. Yes. Do you agree with Police Chief Magnus, 
who is the Biden administration's nominee for Customs and 
Border Protection, that a nonenforcement policy by the 
Department of Homeland Security when it comes to illegal 
immigration is a pull factor encouraging more people to make 
that dangerous trip?
    Secretary Mayorkas. That would require me to speculate 
because we don't have a nonenforcement policy.
    Senator Cornyn. I'm just asking you whether you agree with 
Chief Magnus, the CBP nominee, whether a policy of 
nonenforcement would be a pull factor.
    Secretary Mayorkas. It could be.
    Senator Cornyn. When you issued these nonenforcement 
guidelines----
    Secretary Mayorkas. They're not----
    Senator Cornyn [continuing]. You said this. You said, ``The 
fact that an individual is a removable noncitizen is not alone 
to be a basis for an enforcement action against them.'' Is that 
what you said?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes, it is.
    Senator Cornyn. You don't interpret that to be a statement 
to the criminal organizations that smuggle people illegally 
into the United States or to the migrants themselves that if 
you don't commit any other crimes other than illegally entering 
the United States, you are basically going to successfully 
navigate our immigration system and end up being able to stay 
permanently in the United States?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Absolutely not. That's 100 percent 
false. I'll tell you why. If I----
    Senator Cornyn. Hundred percent false.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes. The reason is--one reason, if I 
may, Senator, is because recent border crossers are a priority 
for enforcement action. There is in fact no incentive to bring 
somebody here, because now that individual will be a priority 
for apprehension and removal from the United States unless they 
have a basis under United States law to remain here.
    Senator Cornyn. We know basically, based on Border Patrol 
projections, that this figure, 1.7 million, doesn't include 
385,000 or so people who simply evade detection by Border 
Patrol. We know that there are about 350,000 people who are 
subject to a notice to appear in court or a notice to report. 
By my count, that's 735,000 people who have successfully made 
their way into the United States. What you're telling us is 
that unless they commit some other offense other than illegal 
entry into the United States, it's no concern of yours.
    Secretary Mayorkas. No, that is inaccurate, Senator, if I 
may. Those individuals who have received notices to appear are 
recent border crossers and are priorities for enforcement and 
removal from the United States. They will be removed unless 
they make a claim to an immigration judge that they have a 
basis under United States law to remain here, and the judge 
rules accordingly. If the judge denies their claim, they will 
be removed from the United States under the guidelines that I 
issued on September 30th of this year.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Cornyn. Senator Klobuchar.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 
Welcome, Secretary.
    In the 9-months since your confirmation as Secretary of the 
Department of Homeland Security, you've faced a series of 
unprecedented challenges, from addressing the threat of 
domestic terrorism and cybercrime to major domestic challenges 
to challenges on our border during a global pandemic to 
welcoming thousands of Afghan refugees and helping them find a 
home. I don't think anyone here believes that this is an easy 
portfolio. I remember President Obama saying that when he first 
got into office and was asked about a series of challenges that 
he confronted. I want to thank you for your willingness to 
serve, and the men and women of your Department for the work 
that they do.
    I want to actually start with a positive topic, and that is 
the work that you and your crew have done in opening the land 
and air entry across our northern border for vaccinated 
visitors, an issue I've long been working on as head of the 
U.S.-Canadian Inter-parliamentarian Group in the Senate. I can 
tell you there were a lot of people celebrating in my State 
when we finally opened the border, not just for air, given that 
the Canadians were already open and you could fly from Montreal 
to Miami, but you couldn't drive from Thunder Bay to Duluth, so 
we're very pleased about this development.
    Could you talk about what implementation challenges the 
Department has had since opening the border last week? I have 
not heard a lot about lines or the like, and I thank you for 
that. Could you tell me how that has gone across the border? 
I'm only aware of my own State.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Thank you, Senator. We're very pleased 
with the way it has gone. We have communicated in advance of 
July 8th, the date on which we lifted the Title 19 restrictions 
at our land ports of entry, that people should be ready for 
increased wait times, which is natural when an operational 
change like this occurs, especially at ports of entry that are 
not modernized. Fortunately, with yesterday's historic 
infrastructure bill, we're going to really change that thanks 
to President Biden's leadership.
    We have not actually experienced the long lines that we 
would have expected. We really prepared for it. They may come, 
and we're continuing to communicate with the public to----
    Senator Klobuchar. I appreciate that. One of the issues we 
have--which, actually, the Canadians have been good to work 
with. They're our No. 1 trading partner, and we are so grateful 
to them.
    One of the things is that we have parity between our two 
countries now in land and air. We have parity that vaccinations 
are required, which is a good idea. We don't have parity right 
now on testing. It's actually on the Canadian side. The 
Canadian visitors need to get an expensive test in addition to 
the vaccination when they return. It can be $70. It can be 
$200. Of course, that's stopping a lot of the more weekend 
visitors that might come to Minnesota, the day visitors that 
drive to Duluth. I wrote a letter with Senator Collins, 
Schumer, and Crapo on this to the Canadian Government asking 
them to look at this, and I urge you to work with on this as 
well. It's not an American issue. It's on the Canadian side, 
and I've spoken to the Ambassador. It is a problem for the 
cross-border traffic. We want parity.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I will most certainly look at that, 
Senator.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the work 
the Department is doing to identify then and transport Afghan 
refugees into the U.S. Many of these refugees, as you know, 
worked with us, served our country. Our State has welcomed 
these refugees with open arms. I've been working with Senator 
Coons on legislation to provide a pathway to permanent legal 
status for Afghan refugees who were evacuated.
    Do you agree that Afghan refugees who are here on 
humanitarian status should be able to apply for permanent legal 
status?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes, I do, Senator. I do hope that 
legislation passes.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. Earlier this month, I 
introduced a bill with Senators Cornyn, Coons, and Murkowski to 
ask the Department of Labor to study the barriers that 
immigrants with advanced training including refugees from 
Afghanistan, but not only refugees from Afghanistan, face in 
finding employment in the U.S., which is critical when you 
consider that 70 of American's Fortune 500 companies were 
started by people born in other countries.
    We have--our country has always been stronger because 
people come here, and they start companies, and they do really 
well and they employ tons of people. We also know in my State, 
especially in the tourism industries in Northern Minnesota, as 
well as in the ag industries, we don't have enough workers 
right now, something Senator Tillis I know cares a lot about, 
which leads us to look at a path to citizenship, or as what's 
considered right now in the bill in front of us a work permit 
situation.
    How can Congress continue to support the Department's 
efforts to make sure that America can benefit from talents and 
expertise of immigrants?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, thank you very much for your 
expression of value, the tremendous value, and contributions 
that immigrants make to our Nation's well-being. As Chairman 
Durbin articulated at the very outset, we all understand that 
our immigration system is broken. There is unanimity about 
that, and it is long past time that we pass legislation to fix 
it.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. Last question here. Along 
with Senator Blunt, I Co-Chair the Congressional Coalition on 
Adoption Caucus. Many of the Members on this Committee are 
members. It's very bipartisan. Over in the House, it is Adam 
Smith and Representative Aderholt that Chair the Commission. 
That's why we've introduced the Adoptee Citizenship Act to make 
citizenship automatic for all international adoptees who are 
legally adopted by U.S. citizens as kids, regardless of when 
their adoption was finalized.
    Since 2004, international adoptions have fallen nearly 93 
percent. I have always viewed this--and part of it of course is 
the pandemic. Part of it is things that Russia did, things that 
China did. There's a whole lot of kids in other countries as 
well that need a loving family, and there's a whole lot of 
Americans that would like to adopt kids.
    We are proud that the domestic numbers have actually gone 
up during the last few administrations with foster kids getting 
adopted. That's all good. International adoption has actually 
been a part of the way that our country is connected to the 
rest of the world, not to mention the humanitarian issues.
    Will you work with me to identify barriers and find ways to 
ease the citizenship process for foreign born adoptees, and 
also in general as we're talking to the State Department, 
Senator Blunt and I, about this issue to work to get back to 
the situation where we were welcoming adopted kids into our 
country?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I would be privileged to do 
so. I was privileged to work with then-Senator Mary Landrieu on 
international adoptions, as well as with Ranking Member 
Grassley on that valiant effort.
    Senator Klobuchar. All right. Thank you very much.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Klobuchar. Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. Thank you very much. Mr. Secretary, moments 
ago, you said you gave yourself an A, maybe an A for effort, on 
dealing with workforce issues at Department of Homeland 
Security. I know that's important. You rely on your people.
    You've got about 17,000 Border Patrol agents. Is that 
right?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I'm sorry. We have about 16, 17 
thousand on the border.
    Senator Lee. On the border. On the border.
    Secretary Mayorkas. On the southern border.
    Senator Lee. Let's talk about those for a minute. Sixteen, 
seventeen thousand on the southern border. What happens? This 
ties back to your desire to give yourself an A for effort on 
dealing with workforce issues. What happens when you've got 
potentially thousands of those, pretty large percentage, who 
might soon become ineligible to work based on their vaccination 
status? Does that hurt or help our operational control of the 
border?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I hope that doesn't prove to 
be the case. We are seeing a tremendous uptick in the number of 
Border Patrol agents along the southern border who are indeed 
receiving their vaccinations. I hope that does not materialize.
    Senator Lee. Yes, you hope. Do you have a plan for 
maintaining this? Would you be willing to share that plan with 
us in writing in the next 2 weeks?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I would most certainly be pleased to do 
so.
    Senator Lee. I appreciate that. On the topic of workforce 
relations, on which you give yourself an A for effort, what 
about the issue with your Border Patrol agents recently being 
accused by some folks in the media of whipping illegal 
immigrants, when, in fact, they were not? Why on earth did you 
not defend them?
    I mean, has no one in your entire Department ever become 
aware of how one uses split reins when riding a horse?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Oh, Senator. Let me say two things. 
Number one, I put 100 percent into my work, and I'm incredibly 
proud to do so. That's number one. Number two, I stand with the 
men and women of our Department through and through, and I will 
not prejudge facts before our----
    Senator Lee. Did you defend them when they were being 
attacked for whipping people, which they were not?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, what I said, quite clearly, is 
that the independent investigation will determine the facts, 
and those facts will drive the outcome. Nothing less and 
nothing more.
    Senator Lee. Okay. Your response and your failure to defend 
them, then and now, is nothing short of morale crushing. If you 
want to maintain or obtain operational control of the border, 
which you do not now have, this is not a way to get there.
    The Department of Homeland Security's website, the whole 
reason for its existence to a significant degree, involves a 
statement that's on your website of your Department that states 
as follows, quote. ``Managing the flow of people and goods into 
the United States is critical to maintaining our national 
security. Illegal aliens compromise the security of our Nation 
by illegally entering the United States or overstaying their 
authorized period of admission'' end quote.
    How is the Department doing in that mission to maintain 
that operational control of the border?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, we are enforcing the laws that 
Congress passed. There are different types of laws, if I may. 
There are laws of accountability, and there are the laws of 
humanitarian relief. Individuals who make a claim for asylum 
who are encountered upon illegal crossing at the border are 
placed into immigration enforcement proceedings, are able to 
make their claim for asylum before an immigration judge, and if 
their claim is successful, under the law, they are able to stay 
here. If their claim is unsuccessful, then they are removed 
from the United States.
    Senator Lee. Okay. Between January 1st and September 30th 
of this year, of just the time period in which President Biden 
has been in office, there have been about 1.7 million illegal 
crossers that have been encountered at our southern border. 
This doesn't suggest to me operational control.
    This does suggest to me an administration that's willing to 
push on the pull factors that Senator Cornyn mentioned, 
accelerating them into the term. It also is reflected in the 
Build Back Better plan, with the full support of your 
administration, which paves a path for granting amnesty, 
turning on more of those pull factors.
    By the way, how many known got-aways have crossed our 
southern border in 2021?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I'll have to provide that 
number to you. I will certainly circle back with you or your 
team expeditiously. I don't think that the approximately 
965,000 people who are subject to Title 42 expulsions under the 
CDC's authority would consider the border open. I don't think 
the 40,000 or so individuals who were removed under the United 
States would consider the border open.
    Senator Lee. Yes, sir. I understand that, and that's great, 
and I appreciate the great work done by the men and women 
serving in your Department. Operational control isn't deemed in 
place because there are some people who have been stopped. 
Operational control has to be measured by those who are coming 
in right now at a record-breaking pace unlawfully.
    Here's what I don't understand. Maybe you can help me 
understand this. Does America have the capacity to help make 
sure that we take in every person, ill-intentioned or not, who 
wants to come to America? What's the real limiting principle 
there? Because letting 2 million or so people in illegally 
across our southern border in a year, together with the fact 
that your administration is backing legislation that turns on 
more of a magnet encouraging more people here to come 
unlawfully, seems consistent with that mindset, that it's an 
unmitigated good.
    Secretary Mayorkas. If I may, Senator. This will require 
further discussion, but let me make a few important points, if 
I may.
    First of all, there is a misperception that individuals who 
are encountered at the border and who are not immediately 
expelled under the Title 42 authority or who are not subject to 
expedited removal and accelerated removal process are just let 
into the United States and left alone, and that is absolutely 
false.
    Senator Lee. Hang on a minute. Hang on a minute. Some of 
them are. Some of them are. Like Yery Medina Ulloa, who is a 
24-year-old Honduran man who was recently apprehended crossing 
the U.S.-Mexico border, where he fraudulently claimed to be a 
17-year-old. He then ended up in Jacksonville, Florida, where a 
family took him in. Days later, he stabbed the father of that 
family to death. He was a 24-year-old, not a 17-year-old, as he 
claimed. There are people like him crossing, and with the 
assistance, with the approval, with the facilitation in some 
cases of your Department, these things are happening.
    Secretary Mayorkas. That is inaccurate. I am aware of the 
case. That individual is being prosecuted. There is an 
immigration enforcement detainer on that individual.
    Senator Lee. Did your Department or did it not allow him 
in?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I'd like to not comment on the 
details because----
    Senator Lee. I bet you would not like to comment on the 
details.
    Secretary Mayorkas. If I may, Senator. There is a criminal 
case against that individual pending. Whether or not that 
individual committed fraud and deceived our personnel is a 
question that may be relevant to the ongoing criminal 
prosecution, and so it would be inappropriate for me to comment 
on a pending criminal matter at this time.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. What's inappropriate is for your 
administration to continue leaving these borders open----
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee [continuing]. While pushing to turn on the pull 
factors. That's wrong, and it's immoral, and it's harming the 
security of the American people.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Coons.
    Senator Coons. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Grassley. Thank you, Secretary Mayorkas, for your thoughtful 
answers today, for your leadership in what is such a broad area 
of responsibility.
    The Department of Homeland Security faces an enormous range 
of challenges, from cybercrimes to climate change to migration 
to domestic terrorism. There is a very wide range of things we 
could be discussing today. Let me focus on a few.
    What I most appreciate about your leadership on the very 
challenging issues of immigration is your recognition that 
smart and effective enforcement must also be, and can be, 
consistent with our values with treating people who come to 
this country humanely, even as you are trying to enforce our 
immigration laws and ensure border security.
    Let's start with the question of prosecutorial discretion, 
an approach that effectively makes any undocumented immigrant a 
priority is actually making no one a priority. You're proposing 
prioritization using prosecutorial discretion to strike 
priorities. Why is that needed? Can you explain why an approach 
of having priorities is actually more humane and more 
effective?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Thank you very much, Senator. There are 
two reasons, and let me first at the outset say that the 
concept of prosecutorial discretion has guided Federal, State, 
and local law enforcement agencies for years and years. When I 
was an Assistant United States Attorney, that principle guided 
us under the U.S. Attorneys' manual.
    There are two reasons in the context of immigration 
enforcement. Number one, we have limited resources, and if we 
do not establish priorities, we will not accomplish our mission 
most effectively of securing the well-being of the American 
public.
    Number two, there are more than 12 million unlawfully 
present individuals in the United States, many of whom have 
been in this country for years and years and have been 
contributing members of our society. One example, just one 
example, are the individuals who do the backbreaking work of 
picking food that arrives on our table every day.
    It is not only a matter of allocating resources smartly and 
effectively, but it is also a matter of justice.
    Senator Coons. Let me ask an additional question if I might 
about our role in Congress in contributing to resolving our 
broken immigration system. There's areas where our interests in 
strong border management and humane treatment of migrants can 
and should align. Creating an orderly process at ports of entry 
would disempower smugglers and help protect the safety of 
migrants. Addressing multi-year asylum backlogs would give 
migrants some stability while avoiding unhelpful incentives. 
You've taken a whole range of initiatives, restarting for 
example the Central American Minors Refugee and Parole Program, 
which creates a safe pathway for applying for refuge in the 
United States. Increasing the number of H-2B visas to a broader 
range of countries creating opportunities for legal migration. 
Improving the expedited removal process, creating a dedicated 
docket.
    I think there's lots of things we can and should do to 
build a safe, fair, and humane immigration system consistent 
with the rule of law, but we have to have patience to invest in 
the long-term and willingness to make some fundamental changes. 
How do you think we in Congress can support your efforts 
through legislation?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, you described a number of 
efforts that we have underway, promulgating them through 
policy, as well as through regulation. The enduring, the 
enduring solution is immigration legislation to fix our broken 
system, to bring much needed reforms to our asylum system, and 
to every aspect of our immigration system so that the best and 
brightest, as Senator Klobuchar referenced, the individuals who 
can provide so much prosperity and create American jobs, who 
bring their talents and their energies to this country, 
actually have an ability to remain here and make those 
contributions. It's across the board in achieving the goals of 
family unity, economic prosperity, and humanitarian relief. The 
opportunities are tremendous. They have existed for many, many 
years, and I do hope Congress promulgates legislation for that 
enduring solution.
    Senator Coons. At the very outset of this hearing, Chairman 
Durbin commented that, of course, he's concerned about the 
situation at the border, but we in Congress must act. Simply 
grandstanding and finger pointing isn't going to solve a broken 
immigration system that has been an enduring problem over the 
entire decade I have served here across three different 
administrations.
    Let me move to the situation of our Afghan allies, which it 
should not be a partisan issue to welcome to the United States 
tens of thousands of Afghans who served alongside us. In the 
recent continuing resolution, we passed, with very broad 
bipartisan support, provisions to give Afghan parolees the 
resettlement benefits of refugees. I recently led a bipartisan 
delegation to visit Qatar and Germany to visit with Afghan 
refugees and to thank American service members, diplomats, and 
our allies and partners who have helped make this happen. My 
own home church is helping alongside Jewish Family Services in 
Delaware to welcome one of the first Afghan refugee families 
into Delaware, and we've got a lot of important work to do all 
over our country.
    This can and should be bipartisan. President Biden actually 
has before him this week for signature a bill I led with 
Senator Cornyn that would better protect Federal law 
enforcement and employees overseas, including our Afghan 
allies. As Senator Klobuchar mentioned, I think this is an area 
that with bipartisan support, we can make great progress.
    Can you briefly say more about how Congress, through 
legislation, can bolster your effort to support Afghans?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator Coons, we are grateful for the 
support that Congress already has provided that you reference. 
I should say Operation Allies Welcome is something that has 
received support from both parties, irrespective of party 
affiliation, across this country. We hope that further 
legislation could indeed be passed that provides for these 
individuals a path to status in the United States.
    Senator Coons. Thank you. I'm grateful for the service of 
Jack Markell, the former Governor of Delaware, who is helping 
lead the coordination of Operation Allies Welcome, and I'm 
grateful for your leadership and the men and women with DHS in 
helping facilitate this critical effort. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Coons. Senator Cruz.
    Senator Cruz. Secretary Mayorkas, you testified several 
times that our immigration system is, quote, ``fundamentally 
broken.'' True or false. Under President Trump, we saw the 
lowest rate of illegal immigration in 45 years?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I don't know if it's within 45 years, 
but we certainly saw, in 2020, a low level of illegal 
immigration. 2019 was very high.
    Senator Cruz. Okay. True or false, Secretary Mayorkas. This 
year under Joe Biden, we've seen the highest rate of illegal 
immigration in 61 years.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Again, I don't know the number of 
years, but it is certainly a historic high, Senator.
    Senator Cruz. You're right. It's broken, but you broke it.
    Let me ask you. In the calendar year 2021, how many illegal 
immigrants do you expect to have crossed illegally into the 
United States?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I believe the total number of 
encounters that has been referenced in this hearing earlier is 
approximately just under 1.7 million.
    Senator Cruz. There's 2 months remaining. Is it correct 
that you project over 2 million illegal immigrants in 2021, 
calendar year 2021?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I believe that is correct, Senator. 
Over the last 3 months, we've seen a drop in the numbers by 
reason----
    Senator Cruz. How many children do you project in 2021?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I'm sorry?
    Senator Cruz. How many children will have crossed illegally 
in 2021?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I believe that thus far through October 
31st, Senator, approximately 125,000 unaccompanied children 
have been transferred to the shelter and care of Health and 
Human Services.
    Senator Cruz. You told another Senator you don't know how 
many got-aways there have been?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I will have to circle back, Senator, 
with that information. Yes.
    Senator Cruz. That wasn't a fact that you thought was 
relevant to this hearing?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Oh, it is absolutely relevant. I 
understand why the question is posed. It's a fact of great----
    Senator Cruz. Okay. You're not prepared to answer it. How 
about this. How many deaths? How many illegal aliens have died 
crossing illegally into the United States under Joe Biden's 
administration?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I don't have that data.
    Senator Cruz. The deaths, you didn't prepare that data 
either. All right. How about this? How many children have been 
in the Biden cages in calendar year 2021?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I respectfully disagree with 
your use of the term cages.
    Senator Cruz. Fine. You can disagree with it. How many 
children have been in the Biden cages? I've been to the Biden 
cages. I've seen the Biden cages. How many children have you 
detained at the Donna tent facility in the cages you built to 
hold kids? How many children have been in those cages?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I can provide to you the 
following figure, that when--and let me say that when a child--
--
    Senator Cruz. I don't--it's a simple question. How many 
children have been in those cages?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I respectfully am not familiar with the 
term cages and to what you are referring. There are----
    Senator Cruz. Enclosures in which they are locked in, in 
which I took photographs and put them out because you blocked 
the press and didn't want people to see the Biden cages. The 
secure facilities in which they are locked down in Donna, those 
facilities, how many children have been in them?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, there are three types of 
facilities. There's the----
    Senator Cruz. The Donna tent cages. The Donna tent city. 
Let's take the Donna facility. How many children have been 
there?
    Secretary Mayorkas. That is a soft-sided facility. It is 
not a----
    Senator Cruz. Okay. Are you going to answer the question? 
How many children have been in that facility?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I will have to circle back with you 
with a precise number.
    Senator Cruz. Oh, by the way. Here's a photograph of the 
Biden cages.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, that is precisely why I 
articulated----
    Senator Cruz. Children sleeping on floors, crashed in upon 
each other. When I took this photograph, the rate of COVID 
positivity was over 10 percent.
    Secretary Mayorkas. May I speak, Senator?
    Senator Cruz. You can answer the question. How many kids 
have been in these conditions?
    Secretary Mayorkas. That is precisely why I stated in March 
of this year that a Border Patrol station is no place for a 
child, number 1. Number two, that is----
    Senator Cruz. All right. Secretary Mayorkas, you're not 
answering my question. Let me ask you this. In the past year, 
has Joe Biden been down to see firsthand the Biden cages?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I will again----
    Senator Cruz. Has Joe Biden been down to see this facility, 
yes or no?
    Secretary Mayorkas. The President has not been down to 
the----
    Senator Cruz. Okay. No. Has Kamala Harris been down to see 
the Biden cages, this facility, yes or no?
    Secretary Mayorkas. The Vice President was at the border--
--
    Senator Cruz. Has she been down to see this facility? I 
know she went to El Paso. Has she seen the Biden cages?
    Secretary Mayorkas. They are not cages. And----
    Senator Cruz. What are these walls?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, the----
    Senator Cruz. Has Kamala Harris seen them, yes or no?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, the----
    Senator Cruz. It's a simple question, yes or no. We don't 
need a paragraph. Yes or no. Has Kamala Harris been down to see 
these detention facilities?
    Secretary Mayorkas. She has not been down----
    Senator Cruz. Okay. Has any Democratic Senator on this 
Committee been down to see the Biden cages?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I will once again disagree with your 
use of terminology.
    Senator Cruz. These facilities, has any Democratic Member 
of this Committee given a damn enough to see the children being 
locked up by Joe Biden and Kamala Harris because of your failed 
immigration policies?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I cannot speak to the Members 
of this Committee----
    Senator Cruz. You don't know if any Democrats have been 
down there?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Oh, I believe Democrats have been 
down----
    Senator Cruz. To see this facility, yes or no?
    Secretary Mayorkas [continuing]. To the Donna facility. 
Whether they are Members of this Committee, I do not know. 
And----
    Senator Cruz. All right. Let me ask you a different 
question then. How many women have been sexually assaulted 
being trafficked into this country in 2021?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I have no ability to determine 
how many women----
    Senator Cruz. Okay. You don't know. You didn't try to find 
out?
    Secretary Mayorkas [continuing]. Have been sexually 
assaulted in Mexico along the migratory----
    Senator Cruz. All right. How about this? How many children 
have been sexually assaulted by traffickers or other people 
when they were coming in illegally?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I do not have that data.
    Senator Cruz. Okay. You don't know that either. Let me ask 
you this. How many illegal immigrants have you released into 
the United States who were COVID positive?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, we--it is our policy to test 
individuals.
    Senator Cruz. I didn't ask your policy. How many illegal 
aliens have you released who were COVID positive?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Let me just say when they are released, 
they are placed in immigration----
    Senator Cruz. How many have you released that were COVID 
positive?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I will have to get that number for----
    Senator Cruz. Okay. You don't have that answer either. 
Let's try this. How many illegal aliens have you released who 
had criminal convictions?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Who have criminal convictions in 
Mexico? In the----
    Senator Cruz. Criminal convictions in whatever 
jurisdiction.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Those individuals, if they pose a 
public safety threat----
    Senator Cruz. How many individuals with criminal 
convictions have you release?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I do not have that or----
    Senator Cruz. Okay. Let's specify it more narrowly. How 
many murderers have you released?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I'm not aware of any murderers whom 
we----
    Senator Cruz. How many rapists have you released?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I'm not aware of any rapists whom we--
--
    Senator Cruz. How many child molesters have you released?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I am not aware of any child molesters 
whom we have released into the United States. I should say 
that----
    Senator Cruz. Senior Customs and Border Patrol leadership 
have told me that your agency is slow walking and refusing to 
comply with the order from the Federal court to return to the 
Remain in Mexico policy. What would you say to the judge if the 
judge was asking why you should not be held in contempt and 
incarcerated for defying a Federal court order?
    Secretary Mayorkas. It is because we are implementing the 
court's order in good faith. We are working with Mexico. It 
requires a bilateral relationship and agreement. I should also 
add----
    Senator Cruz. Have you or anyone in your staff expressed to 
Mexico to resist going back to this agreement?
    Secretary Mayorkas. No. I should also indicate to you, 
Senator, that Immigration and Customs Enforcement, ICE, under 
the sex offenders operation known as SOAR apprehended 495 
individuals between June 4th and September 1st who committed 
sex offenses, and we're very focused on public safety.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Cruz. Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That our 
immigration system is broken is an understatement. This broken 
system certainly did not originate with the Biden 
administration. The fact is the Biden administration was handed 
a system decimated by the previous administration. Working 
toward a long-term solution will take time, and certainly 
Congress should pass comprehensive immigration reform as we 
tried to do in a bipartisan way in 2013.
    Secretary Mayorkas, you were asked several questions by 
Senator Graham about vetting of Afghan evacuees. To clarify, 
did these evacuees fly directly from Afghanistan to the U.S.? 
Can you describe the screening these evacuees went through 
before they arrived in the U.S.?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Thank you very much, Senator. I was 
unclear whether Senator Graham was referring to flights from 
Afghanistan to third countries, or with respect to flights from 
those third countries ultimately to the United States.
    The operation that we executed was, working with our 
allies, we developed third countries that served as transit 
points where Afghan nationals, ultimately to arrive to the 
United States, would be screened and vetted. We deployed 
personnel and equipment to conduct that screening and vetting. 
That screening and vetting involves not only the Department of 
Homeland Security, but the Departments of Defense and State 
working with our law enforcement and intelligence agencies 
across the Federal enterprise.
    We vet both biographic and biometric information, and it is 
our policy to vet 100 percent of the individuals in those 
transit countries before they board a flight for the United 
States.
    I should also add if I may, Senator--forgive me--that the 
vetting is recurrent. It is ongoing. As we obtain more 
information, for example, at the military facilities, what we 
call the safe havens, where the Afghan nationals reside until 
they are resettled, they fill out paperwork. We ingest the 
information that they complete in that paperwork into our 
screening and vetting process, so it is recurrent. It is 
ongoing.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you. Clearly before these evacuees 
can come to our country, there is quite the process--the 
vetting process.
    You had stated previously that you, quote, ``find it 
frankly abhorrent that we can proceed to remove a child who 
does not have counsel by her or his side'', end quote, and that 
when a child is unrepresented, it becomes a more difficult 
case, and a government lawyer has a lot more to do.
    In fact, recent data from our immigration courts show the--
that from fiscal year 2018 through the first half of fiscal 
year 2021, unrepresented, unaccompanied children were 97 times 
less likely to obtain legal relief in immigration court than 
their unrepresented counterparts. Clearly when a child has 
legal representation that is better for all concerned.
    Can you tell us more about why legal representation of 
children in immigration proceedings is so essential?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, thank you so much for your 
question. Immigration law is extraordinarily complex. The 
proceedings are very complex, and we cannot expect a young 
child to understand how to navigate a legal system to identify 
the rights that they might actually have under United States 
law and vindicate those rights. That is the reason why it is so 
difficult for a government attorney to make sure, in achieving 
justice, that the rights of a child are indeed presented to a 
court.
    Senator Hirono. I'll never forget Chairman talking about 
going to an immigration court, which I have also visited, not 
the same court, seeing a tiny child being foisted up without 
any representation and facing the immigration court. It's 
inhumane. This is why I have just reintroduced the Fair Day in 
Court for Kids Act, legislation to help challenges at the 
border by assuring counsel for all unaccompanied children in 
immigration proceedings, and I hope that you can continue to 
view the importance of these children having legal 
representation.
    A lot is being said about the number of encounters at the 
southern border. What is not being said is that most single 
adults continue to be expelled at the southern border using 
Title 42 authority before they can claim asylum. These Title 42 
expulsions basically encourages migrants to try crossing the 
border as many times as possible. This recidivism causes 
migrants to be repeatedly counted and doesn't seem to be a fair 
or accurate measure of border security.
    Can you tell us how high this recidivism rate is at the 
border, and how much of the increase in encounters is due to 
these repeated crossings?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, the number of recidivists is 
not immaterial. In fact, that approximately 1.7 million figure 
that has been cited before does include recidivists. In other 
words, it is not 1.7 million different individuals, but rather 
encounters, and there may be multiple encounters of a single 
individual.
    We've taken, actually, enforcement measures to reduce the 
amount of recidivism. For example, working with our partners in 
Mexico, we have been taking the removal flights of individuals 
and bringing them further into the interior of Mexico to make 
recidivism more difficult.
    Senator Hirono. My question was do you have any kind of 
figures on what the percentage of recidivism is?
    Secretary Mayorkas. We do track that, Senator, and I will 
have to provide that to you subsequent to the----
    Senator Hirono. Is it relatively high, so that the one-
point whatever figure is very inaccurate?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, the 1.7 million figure is 
inaccurate, but we do--we must recognize that the number of 
individual different encounters at the border is very high in 
fact, this fiscal year 2021.
    Senator Hirono. Yes. Thank you. Before I run out of time, I 
want to turn to preclearance. U.S. Custom and Border Protection 
has preclearance operations where CBP personnel are stationed 
at 16 foreign airports in 6 different countries through 
preclearance. We have no such facilities in Asian countries, 
and I hope that we can work with your Department to create such 
procedures in Asian countries such as Japan, because 
preclearance makes it so much easier for travelers to come to 
our country because they are precleared to do so in these 
facilities in foreign countries.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Thank you, Senator. I look forward to 
working with you toward it.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Hirono. Senator Hawley.
    Senator Hawley. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 
Secretary Mayorkas, nice to see you again.
    You've testified several times already this morning that 
you have, I'm going to quote you now, ``rigorous screening and 
vetting in place''--rigorous is your word--for Afghan evacuees, 
refugees, tens of thousands of them, who have been brought to 
this country after the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan 
that this administration conducted, historically disastrous I 
might add, in which 13 American service members were killed, 
including one from my home State. Hundreds, maybe thousands of 
Americans left behind to the enemy where they still remain.
    It's your testimony that rigorous screening and vetting has 
occurred. I assume that you mean by that that at least the 
standard refugee screening process--if it's rigorous, it's at 
least the standard refugee screening process. Is that correct? 
Am I right about that?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I do think it deviates from 
the refugee screening, but we have taken steps to make sure 
that the program is indeed rigorous, and I use that term 
advisedly.
    Senator Hawley. Noted. Noted that you use it advisedly. It 
deviates though from the standard screening procedures. You're 
conducting in-person interviews of all of the refugees per the 
standard procedures? You testified that 100 percent of these 
people have been screened and vetted. You're conducting in-
person interviews per the standard procedures of all of these 
refugees?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, our U.S. Customs and Border 
Protection personnel have physical contact and questioned each 
individual at the port of entry. If there is any question with 
respect to that individual, any derogatory information or any 
question that bears on the individual's safety, the safety of 
the American people, that individual can be placed in 
secondary----
    Senator Hawley. Wait a minute. That's not my question. My 
question is, are you conducting--the standard security 
procedure, the standard screening procedure for refugees, is 
they are given an in-person interview to find out, for example, 
if they're a terrorist. You said 100 percent of these evacuees 
are screened. Have they all been given in-person interviews per 
the normal process?
    Secretary Mayorkas. They have not all been given 
interviews.
    Senator Hawley. Why not?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Because we have to be mindful of the 
fact that we were in an emergency situation to evacuate U.S. 
citizens, lawful permanent residents, special immigrant visa 
holders, and others who have----
    Senator Hawley. What percentage do those--the special 
immigrant visa holders and American citizens, what percentage 
of the total tens of thousands did those constitute?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I have that information for you if 
you'll give me 1 minute.
    Senator Hawley. The answer is it's an extremely small 
percentage. I mean, it's maybe a few thousand out of 60,000 who 
have come to this country. My question is why are you not 
conducting in-person interviews of the people who have been 
brought here to this country? Don't you think that's dangerous?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I do not, Senator. I think that if in 
fact there is information adduced that gives any cause for 
concern, number one, the individual is not brought to the 
United States----
    Senator Hawley. Wait a minute. When you say that, I just 
want to be clear about this. When you say any information, you 
mean if they are already in our data base as a terrorist or a 
criminal or a terrorist affiliate, right?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, we capture the biometric and 
biographic information of the individuals in the transit 
countries.
    Senator Hawley. Right. I understand that. If they're in our 
data bases already as a terrorist or a terrorist affiliate or a 
known criminal, then maybe you're saying there's a fault, then 
maybe they get an interview. What about--that's fine, but what 
about the tens of thousands of people who aren't already in our 
data base, the people who we don't know who they are? Have they 
been interviewed?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, what we do is we capture their 
biographic and biometric information. We screen them----
    Senator Hawley. That's like a fingerprint.
    Secretary Mayorkas. A fingerprint, a photograph, biographic 
information, and we run it against our data bases in our law 
enforcement intelligence and other holdings.
    Senator Hawley. You're not interviewing them, Mr. 
Secretary. It's not unless they're already in our data base 
that you then bother to interview them. Do you know how many of 
the 9/11 hijackers, the 20 who tried to enter this country, do 
you know how many of them were given an in-depth interview by a 
trained official?
    Secretary Mayorkas. If I may walk through the process.
    Senator Hawley. No, this is an important question. Do you 
know how many of the hijackers were given an in-depth 
interview?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I do not.
    Senator Hawley. One. The answer is one. That person did not 
enter the country. The others were not given an interview. We 
know the outcome. For that reason, the 9/11 Commission 
recommended in-person interviews for all refugees and others 
brought to this country in these circumstances. That was 20 
years ago. That's why the standard procedure is an in-person 
interview for refugees or visa applicants. You've testified 
that you're not doing those interviews.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Not at all.
    Senator Hawley. That they're not happening.
    Secretary Mayorkas. No. If I may, Senator.
    Senator Hawley. You have just testified. You just said that 
they are not being interviewed unless they're already in our 
system as a known terrorist. That would have captured none of 
the 9/11 hijackers.
    Secretary Mayorkas. If I may, Senator, that is not--and I 
apologize if I was not clear. You are correct that we are not 
conducting in-person full refugee interviews of 100 percent of 
the individuals----
    Senator Hawley. What percentage are you conducting?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I don't have that information.
    Senator Hawley. What number have been interviewed?
    Secretary Mayorkas. What we are doing----
    Senator Hawley. Wait, wait, wait. What number--of the more 
than 60,000 brought to the country, what number have received 
an in-person interview before they came to the country? Because 
you said 100 percent are screened. What percentage have been 
given an actual interview by a trained official before they 
come to the country?
    Secretary Mayorkas. When you're speaking of a full refugee-
like interview, I don't have that data. I will tell----
    Senator Hawley. Why not? Are you not tracking it?
    Secretary Mayorkas. No, I don't have that data with me 
here.
    Senator Hawley. Well, and I hear you. I understand what 
that means. Why don't you? Are you not tracking it?
    Secretary Mayorkas. No, we have data in the Department of 
Homeland Security. You're asking me what data I have at my 
fingerprints?
    Senator Hawley. Why don't you have it? You run the 
Department of Homeland Security. Why do you not know who has 
been interviewed or not before they're brought to this country?
    By the way, are you following what's happening to people 
who have been brought to this country? On September 19th, a 
female U.S. service member was assaulted by a group of male 
Afghan evacuees housed at Fort Bliss. September 5th, a report 
from your office, the DHS from U.S. officials at intake centers 
in Wisconsin identified numerous incidents in which Afghan 
girls had been presented to authorities as the underage wives 
of much older men. Other reports of assault and rapes by Afghan 
men for Afghan girls. These are some of the folks who have been 
brought here because they haven't been screened, because you 
haven't conducted interviews. Don't you think that's a problem?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, those individuals have been 
screened, as I spoke of previously. Let me----
    Senator Hawley. You've interviewed them.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Let me share with you that if an 
individual violates a condition of parole, there are two things 
that can happen. They can be criminally prosecuted, depending 
on the reason for their violation----
    Senator Hawley. Mr. Secretary, my time has expired. I've 
got to turn it over to other Senators. I just want to say the 
fact that you are not conducting the most standard interviews 
for tens of thousands of people brought to this country is 
astounding to me, and it seems to me you've not learned the 
most basic lessons that we learned on 9/11, since then, and the 
security risk is unbelievable. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Padilla. [Presiding.] Senator Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Just to complete 
the response and to clarify, nobody becomes a permanent 
resident without that full interview. Is that correct, Mr. 
Secretary?
    Secretary Mayorkas. That is correct, Senator.
    Senator Blumenthal. Is there anything else you want to add 
in response to Senator Hawley's question?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I want to make sure that we understand 
that the incidents of violations of parole, which Senator 
Hawley correctly pointed to, is the great exception, 
extraordinary exception, and not the rule. We are incredibly 
proud of Operation Allies Welcome and our ability to resettle 
individuals who have worked alongside us in the theater of war 
and who otherwise need humanitarian protection.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Recently, Mr. Secretary, I 
had the opportunity to visit Camp Upshur at Quantico and to see 
some of the work that's being done to resettle a portion of the 
more than 120,000 Afghans who have been evacuated so far. As 
you know, 75 to 80 thousand of them are either in this country 
or will be shortly. That is a massive challenge to resettle in 
this country. I have a very deep concern about whether there is 
a plan to do it, whether there are sufficient resources to 
accomplish this massive feat of resettlement.
    As you may know, my office and I have been involved in 
attempting to evacuate, after the withdrawal of American 
troops, not only American citizens, but Afghan allies who are 
stranded and trapped there, potentially at serious risk. The 
120,000 who were airlifted, many of them were not at risk, 
which is why they were able to make it to the airport. The ones 
at risk were fearful of going through the Taliban checkpoints. 
They are still trapped there with targets on their back because 
they sided with us. They put their lives on the line as 
interpreters and translators and guards and others who helped 
our journalists, as well as our troops and diplomats, and 
protected them.
    We have this tremendous challenge ahead of us, and what 
I've seen about the evacuation effort is a lot of agencies 
pointing fingers at their other--whether it's State pointing 
fingers at DOD or DOD pointing fingers at DHS. At Quantico, 
there is an alphabet soup of different agencies on the ground 
working on resettlement. I want to avoid the same finger 
pointing when it comes to our resettlement efforts.
    About $6.8 billion have been allocated so far as you know 
in the CR to accomplish resettlement. I am deeply concerned, 
number one, with evacuation of Afghans still at risk there. 
I've called for an Evacuation Tzar to avoid this kind of 
attempt to shift blame and finger point in enabling our Afghan 
allies, as well as American citizens, green card holders, still 
there to leave the country, but also while here. We need a 
similar kind of Tzar with the status and credibility.
    I know that Jack Markell is going to be leaving to become 
an ambassador. That position will soon be unfilled. Even that 
position is not sufficiently elevated to accomplish this task 
and the resources available are inadequate.
    I have two questions. Please understand, I'm trying to help 
you to help us help you with resources. I'd like to know, what 
is your timeline, and what do you need in the way of support 
and resources to accomplish this feat? Because there are 
resettlement agencies. IRIS and CIRI in Connecticut are two. 
They are all around the country trying to help. They need 
support from your agency and others in this alphabet soup out 
at Quantico and similar bases around the country. I want you to 
help me to help you with this task, because very shortly as you 
know, whether it's at Quantico or any of the other bases, the 
weather's going to turn bad. The tent cities are going to 
become mud cities, and the residents of those cities, the 
guests as they're called, are going to rightly be pretty 
unhappy, particularly children, and about half of them are 
children. I just want to finish by saying how impressed I was 
by the marines I saw at Quantico, by the personnel out there. 
They are all in. They are working with the guests.
    I happened to meet while I was there, among the guests, one 
of the families that was airlifted on one of the planes that my 
flight--my office was involved in arranging one of the flights 
that carried these people to freedom. It was incredibly moving 
for me to meet them and to know that they were there because of 
flights arranged, in part, because of my office. I'd like you 
to tell me what we can do, because Americans should be invested 
in trying to enable these Afghans to escape.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, let me at the outset just 
thank you for your leadership on this and your concern for the 
vulnerable individuals who remain in Afghanistan. We--our 
commitment to them is ongoing, is continuous, and we've built 
sort of a systematic approach to relief for them, and also for 
your concern with respect to resettlement.
    We're resettling, working very closely with the agencies, 
just over an average of about 4,000 Afghan nationals a week. 
Our timeline--thanks to extraordinary work of Governor Markell 
and Bob Fenton, FEMA Region 9 leader who has moved from San 
Francisco to Washington, DC to lead Operation Allies Welcome 
and our coordination efforts, we have a timeline of between 
December and February to complete the resettlement of the 
Afghan nationals here.
    We're very focused on jobs, on housing and funding. We're 
grateful for Congress' assistance in that funding. I'd welcome 
the opportunity to meet with you and discuss with you what 
other support we could really use to accomplish this mission. I 
so greatly appreciate and value your leadership and commitment 
to it.
    Senator Blumenthal. I appreciate your answer. I would like 
to follow-up if I don't have a chance in the second round to be 
more specific, or if you don't feel you have the response now. 
I think it is absolutely critical that we have a firm timeline, 
and that we, in effect, strengthen or harden or weatherize and 
winterize the facilities on these bases before December and 
February, even if we're able to accomplish that timeline, and 
to know from you very specifically what additional resources, 
what dollar amounts you need. Thank you, Secretary.
    Chair Durbin. [Presiding.] Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. 
Senator Kennedy.
    Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for being here 
today. Thank you for your service.
    There's a famous movie line, I'm sure you've heard it: 
``Deserve's got nothing to do with it.'' Deserve's got nothing 
to do with it. I don't think you deserve to have to be here 
today to answer questions about immigration because I don't 
think you're calling the shots. I think those shots are being 
called out of the White House. I think they ought to be here.
    The people determining our border policy, in your opinion, 
are they just incompetent, or do they believe in open borders?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I'm intensely and immensely 
proud to be a member of President Biden's Cabinet, and for the 
policies that are promulgated, I should be held accountable.
    Senator Kennedy. Right. I looked last night at President 
Biden's platform when he ran for President. He supported 
amnesty for the 11.7 million people in our country illegally. 
He promised he would end the Remain in Mexico program. He 
promised he would end the safe third country agreements. He 
promised he would get rid of the border wall. He promised to 
encourage sanctuary cities, and he said I'm not going to deport 
people.
    Can we agree that you don't have to be Mensa material to 
understand that's an open border policy?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, a few of your recitations, if 
I may respectfully submit, were not accurate portrayals of the 
President's policy. He did not say----
    Senator Kennedy. I looked up his platform last night. It's 
right there. I mean, here's what I believe on immigration.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, again, I would respectfully 
disagree with your characterization of the President's policy. 
For example----
    Senator Kennedy. Let me ask you this, Okay? You say he 
didn't say this. The surge that we're having at the border, the 
1.7 million people that have come into our country illegally, 
and The Washington Post says it's another thousand who are 
undetected, the President says that happens every single 
solitary year. Is he wrong on that or right on that?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, we encounter many, many people 
at the border every year. The number that we have encountered 
of different individuals this year is at a historic level. It's 
high.
    Senator Kennedy. Like the highest in 60 years, right?
    Secretary Mayorkas. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not 
familiar with the timeframe, but it is certainly a historically 
high number, Senator.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. Your administration has released 
thousands of people into our country who are COVID positive, 
have you not?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, as I mentioned earlier, it is 
our policy to test, and as necessary, isolate and quarantine--
--
    Senator Kennedy. I know, but you've still released 
thousands who are positive, haven't you?
    Secretary Mayorkas. There have been individuals who have 
been released. By the way, those individuals, just to be clear 
because there's a misperception--those individuals who are not 
immediately expelled or removed under expedited processes are 
placed into immigration enforcement proceedings where they are 
required to appear----
    Senator Kennedy. Right, but I'm talking about COVID.
    Secretary Mayorkas [continuing]. In court and stand before 
a judge. If they don't have a claim under law to remain in the 
United States, they are removed.
    Senator Kennedy. Your Department has released thousands of 
people into this country illegally who are drug dealers, 
haven't you?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I'm sorry, Senator?
    Senator Kennedy. Your Department has released thousands of 
people illegally into this country who are drug dealers, 
haven't you?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I'm not familiar with what you've just 
articulated. It is our policy that if an individual is a drug 
dealer and we encounter and apprehend that individual at the 
border, the individual poses a public safety threat, and there 
are not conditions that are available to us to ensure the 
safety----
    Senator Kennedy. How do you know if 1,000 a day according 
to The Washington Post are coming in undetected?
    Secretary Mayorkas. If I may, just to finish my statement.
    Senator Kennedy. I'm sorry.
    Secretary Mayorkas. If there are not conditions that can 
secure the safety of the American people, that individual is 
detained, is placed in Immigration custody.
    Senator Kennedy. Right. Right. We know the superlative job 
you all are doing.
    Your Department has released thousands of people into this 
country illegally who have criminal records, haven't you?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, individuals who are 
apprehended at the border are subject to a number of different 
paths. They can be expelled under Title 42 of the U.S. Code 
under the CDC's public health authority. They can be placed 
into expedited removal proceedings.
    Senator Kennedy. Mr. Secretary, I've got limited time, and 
I understand the procedure. I'm just trying to get you to 
answer my questions.
    Your administration, the Biden administration, has released 
into our country people coming across the border, thousands of 
them, who have criminal records. Isn't that the case?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I'm not aware of thousands of 
individuals with criminal records who are released into the 
interior of the United States who are not----
    Senator Kennedy. All right. Let me try another one. Your 
Department has released into our country thousands of people 
who have promptly gone on welfare. Isn't that the case?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I don't believe that individuals who 
are unlawfully present in the United States qualify for 
welfare, but that is something that I'm happy to find----
    Senator Kennedy. You ever been to California?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I grew up for most of my life in 
California.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. Check their roles.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I wasn't born in this country.
    Senator Kennedy. Yes, sir. I know. I think we ought to tell 
the Cuban American success story every chance we get.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Thank you.
    Senator Kennedy. You're--I'm about to run out of time. Our 
Vice President Harris, our Border Tzar, what kind of grade 
would you give her?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Vice President Harris is not the Border 
Tzar. Vice President Harris has been asked by the President of 
the United States to focus on root causes.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. Let me ask you this quickly in my 
last few seconds. When is the last time you talked to her about 
securing the border?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Several weeks ago.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I landed 
the plane on time.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Kennedy.
    Senator Kennedy. I want you to recognize that.
    Chair Durbin. I sure do. You get an A plus. Senator Booker.
    Senator Kennedy. Thank you.
    Senator Booker. Yes, thank you very much for being here, 
Secretary Mayorkas. I want to thank you and the incredible 
professionals, thousands who work under your command, and thank 
them for their work and their dedication to our country.
    I want to start off by looking at the American food system, 
which is savagely broken. It's hurting everybody, from driving 
record incredible staggering numbers of independent family 
farmers out of business. It's hurting the end users where a 
Nation--where just 2 percent of our ag subsidies go to fruits 
and vegetables, which we're told to eat the majority of. It's a 
system that's hurting everyone.
    I want to zero in on what's happening with people who are 
food workers, many of them who are immigrants, many of them who 
are undocumented immigrants.
    In your opening statement, you said in reference to an 
October 12th memo called Worksite Enforcement, you said the 
strategies to protect the American labor market, the conditions 
of the American worksite, and the dignity of the individual. 
I'm wondering just about the threat of deportation and how 
that's serving potentially as deterrent to immigrant workers 
who might otherwise speak up about unsafe conditions. I know 
you're familiar with the Mississippi raids targeting poultry 
workers for example.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I am.
    Senator Booker. About 2 years ago where 680 workers were 
swept up in those raids in the aftermath of a $3.75 million 
settlement with the EEOC, and their charges were everything 
from sexual harassment, discrimination, real exploitation of 
these immigrant workers.
    I guess the question I'd like to know is that, as you focus 
on civil enforcement on these unscrupulous workers who are 
putting people in almost like slavery-like conditions, or at 
least undermining their dignity, what if anything can DHS do to 
incentivize and encourage immigrant workers to report abuses in 
order to protect their rights and defend the labor standards of 
everyone?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, thank you so much for raising 
this issue. We've spent a considerable amount of energy focused 
on it.
    We have promulgated a suite of policies to get at the very 
heart of the issue that you have raised. Number one, you've 
referenced our worksite enforcement policy, which focuses on 
the unscrupulous employers that exploit the vulnerabilities of 
those unlawfully present in the United States.
    We also promulgated a policy that our immigration 
enforcement tools cannot be used in retaliation for the 
assertion of workplace rights.
    Third, we promulgated a policy extending to individuals who 
do assert their rights, deferred action or other tools so that 
they can actually advance their interest, advance their rights, 
without fear of removal from the United States. We have a suite 
of measures that we have made----
    Senator Booker. It would be more specific about that. In 
other words, if I come forward to report outrageous abuses, 
from sexual harassment and violations to unsafe working 
conditions, my fear would be that I would be immediately 
deported or taken into custody.
    Secretary Mayorkas. There are two aspects to that. Number 
one, you might fear your removal just by dint of the fact that 
you are unlawfully present in the United States, and that's 
precisely why the September 30th guidelines that I promulgated 
indicated that unlawful presence in and of itself is not a 
basis for immigration enforcement action, but rather we have to 
prioritize public safety, national security, and border 
security as the priority areas, number one.
    Number two, you might fear retaliation by reason of your 
assertion of rights, and we have called upon our DHS personnel 
to evaluate a case based on the facts and circumstances and 
determine whether we should extend deferred action, which does 
not provide the individual with status but lawful presence so 
that they do not need to fear removal despite our policies, and 
they could advance their rights and vindicate those rights and 
hold the unscrupulous employer accountable without fear of 
removal.
    Senator Booker. I'm grateful for that. Could you just 
correct something for me? A lot of my Republican colleagues 
have been critical of the Biden administration's handling of 
the situation at the border, as you know. But, you know, in 
reality, monthly encounters at the southwest border started 
rising dramatically a year and a half ago under the Trump 
administration. This increase was due, in part, to worsening 
economic conditions resulting from the COVID-19 pandemic. 
That's true, correct?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes, it is.
    Senator Booker. Can you talk about that increase that 
started significantly under the Trump administration and often 
being driven by this pandemic?
    Secretary Mayorkas. If I may, Senator, 2019 brought 
incredibly high numbers of encounters at the border. Much has 
been said this morning about the purported pull factors. The 
fact of the matter is we have to take a look at why people 
leave their homes, why they flee violence, why they flee 
economic desperation, why they flee the disasters that result 
from climate change.
    Senator Booker. Right. This politicization of it, putting 
it all at one foot of one President over another to me seems 
not to really be indicative of what the real problem is that 
began to be seen under the Trump administration, correct?
    Secretary Mayorkas. That's right. That is exactly why.
    Senator Booker. Can I interrupt you? I'm so sorry. I've got 
1 minute left. I want to try to get two quick questions in.
    There's been expulsion of migrants under Title 42, which 
was the Trump administration. I think they called it the 
Stephen Miller special, where they were trying to use a COVID 
excuse just to remove people. Is the administration considering 
rescinding what again the Trump administration official, one 
Trump administration official, called the Stephen Miller 
special, especially given that the Centers for Disease Control 
and Prevention resisted Trump administration's attempts to 
issue that order in the first place, being that it was 
unnecessary?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, the CDC conducted an 
independent study with respect to the Title 42 authority. It 
determined that the public health imperative required its 
continued use. The Delta variant was a very significant reason.
    Senator Booker. Listening to the CDC as guidance for making 
your decision.
    Secretary Mayorkas. It is a CDC authority, and----
    Senator Booker. Then real quick. Real quick. The plan to 
provide COVID-19 vaccines to detained migrants was overruled 
according to The Washington Post. I want to see if this report 
is true. According to The Washington Post, the plan to provide 
COVID-19 vaccines to detained migrants was overruled by the 
White House with a specific intent to deter immigration and 
asylum seeking. Is that true?
    Secretary Mayorkas. That is not. We offer vaccinations to 
individuals in ICE custody. We do not mandate it.
    Senator Booker. All right. I'm going to submit to you a 
question on the expulsion of Haitian nationals for the record, 
and just appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Booker. Senator Blackburn.
    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Mr. 
Secretary, thank you for being here with us. I have to tell 
you, and I know you've heard it from others, so many 
Tennesseans that I talk to are absolutely outraged with the 
benefits and the handouts that are given to illegal immigrants, 
especially at a time--especially at a time when so many people 
are really suffering due to this oppressive inflation that we 
are seeing take hold of our economy. We are finding ourselves 
in the midst of the worst border crisis ever.
    My colleague talked about 2019, but also the number dropped 
in 2020 after the implementation of Remain in Mexico and the 
Title 42 positions that dropped. Under this administration, we 
are at an all-time high. You are setting records. You're 
talking about giving immigrants, these illegal immigrants, a 
billion dollars in settlement money. A billion is a lot of 
money. That's a lot of taxpayer money.
    I'd like you to help me put these payments into perspective 
of that billion dollars. How much of a border wall--if you want 
to talk about getting to root causes, build a wall. This is 
what our Border Patrol has been saying for three decades that 
they needed. It's not Trump's wall. It's the fact that the 
Border Patrol wanted that. How many miles of border wall would 
a billion dollars build?
    Secretary Mayorkas. If I may, Senator, take a moment 
because you've asked two very different questions.
    Senator Blackburn. Yes, I have. I want an answer to how 
many miles of border wall could you build with a billion 
dollars. Obviously, you don't know the answer to that. The 
answer is 50 miles of border wall. Then how many Border Patrol 
agents could you hire with $1 billion? Something else the 
Border Patrol has said they need to secure this border.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, may I speak to the number of 
questions that you have posed?
    Senator Blackburn. Let's go through these, and then come 
back to that. How many border agents could you hire with $1 
billion?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I would have to get back to you.
    Senator Blackburn. I can tell you. It's over 15,000 border 
agents. How many immigration judges, another thing the Border 
Patrol has told us that they need at that southern border? How 
many immigration judges could you hire with $1 billion?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I would respectfully submit that you--
--
    Senator Blackburn. 7,213 immigration judges could be hired. 
These are all things the Border Patrol has said that they need.
    Grassley asked you about about--you responded to him on 
these settlements because the families are separated at the 
border. Can you sit here today and tell this Committee that 
there hasn't been a single family separated since your 
administration? You told Senator Grassley you all ended that 
policy day one.
    Secretary Mayorkas. That is correct. We are not----
    Senator Blackburn. You are still--you separated families I 
know as late as March. That has been reported. All of these 
families that have been separated under the Biden 
administration, are you going to make a payment to them? Are 
they eligible?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Oh, Senator, your question--forgive 
me--your question is filled with inaccuracies.
    Senator Blackburn. Oh, no. These are things that we are 
pulling from Border Patrol.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Oh, no. Senator, you're----
    Senator Blackburn. Oh, yes. Okay. I'm going to move on. Are 
you compensating people for both short and long-term 
separations days or weeks? Are you making any difference in 
that, or is it just a blanket payment?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, the Department of Justice is 
representing the United States of America in Federal court 
claims----
    Senator Blackburn. Under what legal authority do you all 
have to make these payments?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, if you were privy to my prior 
testimony, and please allow me to answer at least one of the 
multiple questions that you have posed. Pick one.
    Senator Blackburn. Okay. I want to move on in the time I 
have left to a couple of other things.
    Are you familiar with the name Rolbin Pacheco?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I am not.
    Senator Blackburn. Okay. Pascual Gaspar Andres?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I am not.
    Senator Blackburn. Or Gaspar Andres? Or Juan Carlos 
Morales-Pedraza? These are just a few of the criminal illegal 
immigrants who have been charged with a convicted crime against 
American citizens since Joe Biden took office. This has 
happened on your watch.
    Paterilla was charged with a hit and run. It left a father 
of two dead. The Andres were charged with stabbing a man to 
death. Juan Carlos Morales-Pedraza, he pled guilty to coercing 
a minor to engage in sex.
    This administration's radical immigration policies are 
endangering Americans and costing some of them their lives. 
Does the Biden administration have any plans to issue million 
dollar payments to the families of those who were killed or 
assaulted by illegal aliens?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, in 2020, there were 
individuals who crossed illegally into the United States----
    Senator Blackburn. These are all on your watch.
    Secretary Mayorkas [continuing]. And committed crimes.
    Senator Blackburn. These are all on your watch.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Is it your position that the prior 
administration bears responsibility for that?
    Senator Blackburn. I'm asking the questions, and these are 
all on your watch.
    The Build Back Better plan supports giving green cards to 
illegal aliens. There are many advocates out there that are 
trying to make certain that gets shoved into the Build Back 
Better. I call it the Build Back Broke. Do you support giving 
green cards to illegal immigrants that have entered this 
country, yes or no?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I believe in immigration 
reform and legislation that provides a path to citizenship to 
those who meet certain criteria.
    Senator Blackburn. You would support illegal immigrants 
having a path to citizenship and getting a green card when we 
have Americans that are out of work.
    Let me ask you this, yes or no. Have you ever visited the 
White House?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Have I visited the White House?
    Senator Blackburn. Yes. Have you ever visited the White 
House?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes.
    Senator Blackburn. You're aware there is a fence around the 
entire perimeter of the White House to prevent unauthorized 
individuals from entering the White House, correct?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes.
    Senator Blackburn. U.S. taxpayers are also funding a half 
million dollar fence around President Biden's Rehoboth Beach 
house, correct?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I'm not aware.
    Senator Blackburn. Your Department is overseeing this 
construction. You should be aware of that. President Biden 
obviously likes walls when they protect him. Can you explain to 
me why a wall is effective and necessary at the White House and 
the Biden beach house, but is not necessary at the southern 
border?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes, I can. May I have that 
opportunity?
    Senator Blackburn. It's up to the chairman. My time is 
expired.
    Chair Durbin. You may complete the answer to the question.
    Secretary Mayorkas. There are thousands of miles along the 
southern border, and I agree with what then-Senator McCain 
presented, which was there are different solutions for the 
border because of its tremendous expanse, the great diversity 
in the terrain that it must cover, and therefore the key, the 
key to border security is fundamentally advanced technology. 
That is the most effective means, because we're not going to 
construct a border wall on the ragged and jagged cliffs in 
certain parts of the border.
    If I may respectfully, Mr. Chairman, because I did not have 
a chance to answer any of the other questions, let me just 
respectfully submit that I disagree with almost everything that 
was articulated in the questions posed to me that I did not 
have a chance to respond to.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Senator Padilla.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. A number of 
questions. Mr. Secretary, thank you for being here. First, I 
wanted to start with a couple of acknowledgments, beginning 
with I was glad to see they issued a new memo to terminate the 
Migration Protection Protocols also known as MPP, in late 
October, about a month ago. This policy as we know has caused a 
great deal of hardship to individuals who must wait in Mexico 
for their asylum cases, asylum cases, to be processed. In your 
memo, you mentioned that a more comprehensive approach is 
needed to address the root causes of migration, and that MPP is 
not an effective deterrence policy. I think the data, 
statistics that you've begun to share with this Committee, is 
evidence of that.
    While I understand that MPP cannot be terminated until the 
Texas court injunction is vacated, I've heard from many 
stakeholders along the border that there's no way to humanize 
MPP. I can imagine that these stakeholders have also been 
invaluable partners in ensuring that migrants are treated with 
dignity, and it will take a collective effort to reverse the 
long-lasting effects of MPP, so I implore you once again to 
rescind MPP as soon as possible.
    On a second topic, earlier this month I was happy to see 
that the Department will exempt filing fees and streamline 
application processing for Afghan evacuees who received 
humanitarian parole and are already in the United States. While 
I welcome this news and hope it helps our Afghan allies in 
their resettlement process so they can build a life here in the 
United States, we must not forget about those who are still 
outside the United States.
    I encourage the Department to also waive the fees for those 
Afghans who are applying for humanitarian parole from outside 
of the U.S., and to work with the State Department to 
facilitate their travel outside of Afghanistan so that their 
applications can be processed.
    I continue to hear from Californians about how helpful a 
fee waiver would be. I also sent a letter, along with 26 of my 
colleagues, including many on this Committee, making this exact 
request, which I would like to enter into the record.
    I urge the Department to continue offering support to our 
Afghan allies inside and outside the U.S.
    To my questions, the first which is a follow-up to 
something we've heard a lot from my Republican colleagues 
today, and that's about the increasing number of migrant 
encounters. If I understand it correctly, this is the third 
consecutive month of border encounters actually decreasing. 
Would you like to comment on this or shed some light or clarity 
on the more recent statistics and trends?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Thank you, Senator Padilla. We have 
indeed instituted certain practices, not just along the border, 
but also with our partners south of the border that have in 
fact borne fruit in terms of a reduced number of encounters of 
migrants along the southern border, whether it is enforcement 
measures, whether it is safe and orderly alternative pathways 
where people would not need to take the perilous journey and 
can apply for relief from where they are. There are a number of 
measures, and I would be pleased to spend time with you sharing 
with you all of the measures we have taken.
    Senator Padilla. Okay. We'd appreciate that, and we 
certainly welcome that.
    As this is an oversight hearing, I want to ask about some 
disturbing reports around the conduct and actions of Custom and 
Border Protection agents. A recent letter sent by the Southern 
Border Communities Coalition raises significant concerns about 
critical incident teams within the agency that are interfering 
with law enforcement investigation of CBP agents.
    According to the letter, these teams have been operating 
for decades, and investigating their own agents without 
authority, and may be obstructing justice by shielding agents 
from accountability. One case in particular that is especially 
concerning to me involves Anastasio Hernandez Rojas, who was a 
long-time resident of San Diego and a father of five. In 2010, 
Anastasio was hogtied, brutally beaten, and repeatedly tased by 
border agents until he stopped breathing.
    The police record reveals that after the incident, Border 
Patrol agents destroyed, altered, and withheld evidence from 
the San Diego Police Department.
    This incident did not happen in a vacuum. Border Patrol 
abuses were displayed all over national media, more recently 
with the concerning treatment of Haitian migrants in Del Rio, 
Texas. I know how much you, Mr. Secretary, value integrity, and 
I hope you share my concerns that there are serious questions 
that need to be answered to protect the integrity of the 
agency.
    Secretary Mayorkas, what measures has the Department of 
Homeland Security taken toward addressing serious abuses of 
power surrounding these critical incident teams?
    Secretary Mayorkas. There are a few things, if I may. First 
of all, Senator, I am immensely proud to work alongside the men 
and women of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, and that 
includes U.S. Border Patrol. They do heroic work, putting their 
lives at risk to keep the American people safe each and every 
day. The misconduct of one does not define the heroism and 
integrity of the great majority of the men and women.
    You know, this Friday we are going to be conducting a 
public engagement, because we do not tolerate misconduct in any 
part of our workforce, whether that's U.S. Customs and Border 
Protection or any corner of the Department of Homeland 
Security. We're going to have a public engagement this coming 
Friday to discuss transparency and accountability in Customs 
and Border Protection. That is hosted by and propelled by the 
leadership of that agency. We take great pride in our 
workforce, and we will root out misconduct wherever it occurs.
    Senator Padilla. Okay. I'll look forward to continuing to 
work with you on this. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Padilla. Senator Tillis.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary 
Mayorkas, thank you for being here, and I hope you're 
recovering well from your bout with COVID.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Tillis. I'm not going to get you into a question or 
get into a series of questions about whether or not you or the 
administration acknowledges that there is a crisis at the 
border. I'm going to give you my basis for why I believe 
there's a crisis.
    I think there's a crisis because hundreds of people have 
died, if not in this country, in transit to this country over 
the past years, not only this year, but in years past. Hundreds 
of bodies have been recovered on U.S. soil. I actually saw one 
in the Rio Grande when I was there just a few months ago.
    Billions of dollars are being paid to cartels in tolls to 
get across the border. Those who don't pay the toll and get 
caught trying to cross without it could end up dying.
    Tons of drugs are coming into this country, and we've seen 
the latest report on seizures. They're going up. What worries 
me is how much we don't know, how much is coming in this 
country and poisoning Americans.
    Just anecdotally, what I consider to be a crisis is when an 
11-year-old girl who was actually being treated at the time I 
was down at the border--11-year-old girl couldn't speak. She 
had been gang raped, and it had gone on for so long that she 
was screaming and crying. That's a crisis. I don't think that's 
unique.
    Another example. We can get into the anecdotal reports, but 
we do know that criminals are coming across the border. Some 
are being--and thank goodness for Border Patrol and ICE and 
others who are responsible for this--they are being 
apprehended. They're the ones, they're similar to our seizure 
reports. We always end after we talk about a seizure of a 
significant amount of fentanyl or other drugs, it's a win, but 
we always know it's a minority. For every one of these 
criminals that we're finding, the so-called runners now or the 
got-aways, for every one we capture, I think it's fair to say 
that many more are coming into the country.
    I do think it's a crisis, and I do agree that a part of it 
is the result of a failed immigration system. If I have time, 
I'm going to ask you a question a little bit about that. I do 
believe it's a crisis. I think if we sat down and talked about 
the fatalities, talked about the impending crisis when the 
vaccine mandate is imposed and we're already down on Border 
Patrol agents. How many Border Patrol agent positions are open 
right now?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Vacancies?
    Senator Tillis. Yes.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I don't have that number at my 
disposal, but I will say, Senator, that the rate of Border 
Patrol agents being vaccinated has increased significantly.
    Senator Tillis. Yes. Even, I mean, you could argue. If I 
were gaming this out as a businessmen, you could game it out. 
Even if it's a five or a six or a 7 percent attrition rate at 
the end of the day, so you get 93 percent. Do you think it's a 
good thing, or could it present another employment crisis if 
you lose six or 7 percent of your workforce?
    Secretary Mayorkas. We don't want to lose anyone.
    Senator Tillis. Yes. Knowing, as I do, the process for 
onboarding a Border Patrol agent, we don't have a big pipeline 
because it's a lengthy, arduous process that many of these 
people couldn't afford to wait for to actually get onboarded if 
they want to.
    Again, I want to thank all the Border Patrol agents, 
because in some respects, they're getting the same wrath that 
many police officers have gotten. You got the actions based on 
whatever investigation occurs of maybe a bad actor, maybe not, 
maybe didn't understand the context they were operating in. 
You're giving people even fewer reasons to want to come and 
work in one of the most difficult jobs in law enforcement right 
now, and that's down on the border.
    Those to me in their totality to any rational person would 
suggest to me we've got a crisis that we need to work on. We 
can debate the efficacy of the prior administration's policies, 
the problems that I have with some of the current policies. I 
do think we need to recognize there's a problem.
    Back in June, the press reported Vice President Harris, as 
who I understand, is leading the effort for the immigration 
challenge or whatever they're referring to at the border, a 
sweeping strategy. I think in roughly that same time, we had a 
document titled ``DHS Plan to Restore Trust in Our Legal 
Immigration System.'' I sent you a letter back in June. I think 
in September the Department responded it's a blueprint. It's a 
work in process, so you couldn't really share it with us now. 
We heard media reports it had been shared.
    Question now is, is the blueprint finalized, and to what 
extent is it actually affecting your operation?
    Secretary Mayorkas. If I may, Senator, and also thank you 
very much for recognizing the vulnerability of the individuals 
who regrettably place their lives in the hands of exploitative 
smugglers. Indeed, the toll----
    Senator Tillis. I did a back-of-the-napkin math, and the 
average toll right now is about seven, eight thousand dollars. 
I discounted it to $5,000. If you multiply it by 1.7, that's 
about eight and a half billion dollars. I know the recidivism, 
maybe they got a money back guarantee, so let's just--but 
that's why I discounted it to $5,000.
    We're paying cartels, human smugglers, people that run the 
plazas across the southern border on the other side of the 
river billions of dollars. That alone would seem like a crisis 
to me if we discounted everything else.
    I've got to get to one question though. It has to do with 
vaccinations. I've read several reports about a relatively low 
receptivity rate for the vaccine. We've got a President who's 
implementing a national mandate for vaccines for any employers 
over 100 employees and all Federal employees. Why shouldn't we 
mandate that somebody who comes across the border illegally 
shouldn't be vaccinated or that's a reason or expulsion under 
Title 42 or any other law?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, the analysis for migrants 
encountered at the border is quite different than for the 
Federal workforce that leads by example. We are in fact 
removing those individuals. We are expelling them very rapidly.
    Senator Tillis. Can we remove them if they refuse to take 
the vaccine?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Under Title 42?
    Senator Tillis. Why shouldn't that be? If we're talking 
about--I'm sorry to interrupt you, but he's being really good. 
Oh, he's gone, so I may have a shot. No, in deference to 
Senator Ossoff, I'll be brief.
    Look, if we think, for the safety of the American people, 
if the President thinks that he should mandate a vaccine, it 
just seems absurd to me that that wouldn't be a deal killer for 
anybody coming through who's not willing to accept the vaccine. 
In fact, by sending the message to anybody coming to our border 
that you're going to probably get removed, but you're going to 
get vaccinated or absolutely get removed, maybe that's one pull 
factor we can work on together right now.
    Finally, I know you said to Senator Graham that the 
400,000-ish, let's say hundreds of thousands of dollars right 
now being negotiated in the DHS, is out of your lanes. I agree. 
I do believe it's wrong. I do believe if they end up settling 
and it becomes known that you can come across our border and 
potentially build a case to get hundreds of thousands of 
dollars of payout, it's going to be another reason why it's a 
crisis and not just a situation we're trying to work through.
    Thank you, and I wish you good health.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Ossoff. [Presiding.] Mr. Secretary, I'm recognized, 
and appreciate your testimony. Glad to see that you've 
recovered fully from COVID-19.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Ossoff. I want to thank you for the recent 
responsiveness to requests for information from Permanent 
Subcommittee on Investigations. We faced some challenges, and 
you and I have had some candid conversations about that. We've 
seen a marked improvement in the Department's responses to the 
Permanent Subcommittee. Grateful for that. I want to ask you 
for your commitment that that will continue, and that as the 
Permanent Subcommittee for Investigations continues its work, 
that we'll continue to see that kind of robust and timely 
response to our requests.
    Secretary Mayorkas. You most certainly will, Senator.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I'd like to 
discuss with you the supply chain bottlenecks, constraints 
we're facing at major shipping container ports across the 
country. As you know, State of Georgia hosts the Port of 
Savannah, which is, depending upon how you count, the third or 
fourth largest port of its kind in the United States. It hosts 
the largest single container terminal in the United States. 
Like ports across the country and indeed around the world, 
we're seeing significant delays in the processing of inbound 
shipments and challenges.
    Want to ask you what steps the Department is taking as part 
of a broader Federal response to ease these bottlenecks at 
shipping ports.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I'm very well aware of the 
challenge there. One measure that we have taken operationally 
is to increase the hours of operation, sometimes at a 24/7 clip 
to facilitate easing the adverse consequences of the supply 
chain challenge.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I was glad that 
the White House and the administration accepted my request that 
approximately $8 million be allocated to allow the Port of 
Savannah to rapidly scale up its operations, establish some 
auxiliary shipping container areas, make greater use of inland 
ports. I'm glad those resources are on the way.
    I'd like to ask you for your commitment that the Department 
of Homeland Security, to the extent it's involved in those 
efforts, will move as rapidly as possible to support our 
efforts to expand capacity at the Port of Savannah.
    Secretary Mayorkas. We most certainly will, Senator.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. On a related 
note, in addition to hosting the fourth largest container port 
in the country, Georgia hosts the busiest airport in the world, 
as you know well, Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport. 
Given the changes to COVID-19 related restrictions on entry to 
the United States, for example from European countries, and the 
significant increase in domestic travel, there are real 
concerns about CBP capacity and TSA capacity at Hartsfield-
Jackson International Airport, airports across the country.
    I've heard from Delta Airlines, heard from the city of 
Atlanta, concerns about the ability to process entrance, for 
example, from European countries, tourists and businesspeople 
who we want to be here and doing commerce in the United States, 
but we need smooth operations at our airports.
    My question for you, Mr. Secretary, will you please 
designate someone in the Department who can speak with major 
stakeholders like Delta Airlines, like the airport leadership, 
the city of Atlanta, just to make sure we're all on the same 
page about the airports' needs, the operators' needs, the 
carriers' needs, and to have an open line of communication 
about what else the Department might be able to do to smooth 
operations and reduce traveler wait times, both domestic 
travel, encountering TSA lines, and international travelers at 
the airport?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, most certainly. I can identify 
those individuals right now.
    Senator Ossoff. Please.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Troy Miller is the Acting Commissioner 
of the CBP. Very experienced. He grew up in the organization in 
the Office of Field Operations, and William Ferrara, who now 
leads the Office of Field Operations for CBP.
    On the TSA side, I would recommend Administrator David 
Pekoske and Darby LaJoye. These are individuals who are expert 
and have been very focused on staffing of the airport in 
Atlanta, of course, and all airports big and small across the 
country.
    Senator Ossoff. Great. Well, look forward to convening 
those two public servants with airport leadership, city 
leadership, Delta and other carriers, and making sure that 
we're all communicating well about not just meeting, but 
anticipating the airport's needs as travel continues to 
increase nationwide.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I would be pleased to engage, 
as well. This is something that we're very focused on. This 
goes to the prosperity of our country in receiving people for 
tourism and business purposes and other reasons.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I look forward to 
working with you on that.
    My final question for you about U.S. Coast Guard. Had the 
pleasure of meeting with the Seventh District Command, as well 
as meeting with enlisted personnel, enlisted U.S. Coast Guard 
personnel, and hearing from them their needs, their concerns. I 
have such immense respect for the extraordinary men and women 
of the United States Coast Guard, as I know you do, for the 
work they do every day to protect the country, to prevent 
illegal fishing, to enforce our immigration laws, to respond to 
natural disasters, provide search and rescue services to 
Americans who need help. They are amazing people, and I commend 
the U.S. Coast Guard for the extraordinary work they do.
    I've heard from especially enlisted Coast Guard personnel 
about the difficulties that they're having with affordable 
housing and childcare. What I want to ask you is that someone 
from your team will work with mine to map out whether there are 
some solutions that we can find working together to ensure that 
Coast Guard personnel, and especially those younger junior 
enlisted personnel, have access to affordable housing and to 
childcare services.
    There's a discussion we can perhaps have about the base 
housing allowance. I know that gets into some complex issues 
involving the Department of Defense, as well. I'm not asking 
you for a specific policy commitment, but your engagement and 
your staff's engagement in working together to address some of 
these quality of life and kitchen table pocketbook issues for 
especially those young women and men who are keeping our 
country safe through their service in the Coast Guard.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Thank you so much, Senator Ossoff. Let 
me share with you that pursuant to the bill that President 
Biden signed into law yesterday, $434 million I think is the 
figure will be dedicated to the United States Coast Guard. Part 
of that money will be to address some of the quality-of-life 
issues to which you now refer, housing, childcare, and the 
like. That is just one example why the bill that the President 
signed into law, and it's a bipartisan bill that the President 
championed, and so many others, is such a monumental chapter in 
our American history.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I agree with you 
completely. You know, despite the partisanship of many of these 
hearings, I want to again point out that that infrastructure 
bill, which will support airports and ports and our Coast Guard 
was bipartisan, showing that the political parties can rise 
above partisanship and put the national interest first.
    Thank you and thank you for your service.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Ossoff. We will now take a short 10-minute recess 
to allow Senators to vote. When we return, Senator Cotton will 
be recognized for his first round of questioning. Any Senators 
requesting a second round may ask their questions following 
Senator Cotton.
    [Recess.]
    Chair Durbin. [Presiding] Senator Cotton is going to be 
recognized for his first round. I might say that any Senator 
seeking a second round needs to be physically present, as 
Senator Lee is, to make that request. Each of the staff members 
have 10 minutes to make sure that your Member, if interested in 
the second round, is physically here. Senator Cotton.
    Senator Cotton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, on 
September 29th, the National School Board Association wrote to 
the White House calling parents domestic terrorists for being 
concerned about their kids' school. Within a few days, Attorney 
General Garland issued a directive to the Department of Justice 
and the FBI to crack down not just on violent, but what he 
called, quote, ``harassment and intimidation against school 
board administrators, board members, teachers and staff.''
    The School Board Association met with the White House and 
got tips from them on what to put in their letter before 
sending it. We've also recently learned from an internal 
memorandum that the School Board Association, quote, ``As 
disruptions at school board meetings grow, the Association has 
been actively engaged with the Department of Homeland 
Security.''
    Has anyone from the Department of Homeland Security met 
with anyone from the National School Board Association?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, not that I'm familiar with, 
and I don't know why that would fall within our jurisdiction.
    Senator Cotton. Did you see a copy of the Attorney 
General's memorandum before it was released?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I did not.
    Senator Cotton. Okay. Thank you. A few weeks ago, it was 
reported that the Department of Justice was in talks to give 
payments of up to $450,000 per person to illegal immigrants who 
were subject to enforcement of the zero tolerance policy during 
the last administration. Have you or anyone at the Department 
of Homeland Security been involved in those talks?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I have not, and I am not aware of 
anyone in the Department who's been involved in the talks. That 
is something within the province of the Department of Justice.
    Senator Cotton. Let me ask you this, and let me be 
explicit. I'm not talking about the lawsuits that are filed or 
the Department of Justice's litigation strategy or potential 
sediments. Who do you think is more deserving of cash payments 
from the U.S. Government, illegal migrants who cross our 
borders or the family of U.S. soldiers who are killed in 
action?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I think, if I may, you know 
how I'll answer that question. I think that the families of 
those who lost their lives wearing our Nation's uniform are our 
greatest responsibility as a Nation. I can't----
    Senator Cotton. Do you think that it's shocking that 
illegal migrants could get up to four and a half times what the 
family of a service member killed in action?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, if I may. I'm a lawyer by 
profession, so I don't think it advisable to render opinions on 
facts on cases, the facts and circumstances of which I am not 
familiar. Because I know that the cases that are before the 
Department of Justice to which you are referring are Federal 
Tort Claims Act, where not all of those unlawfully present are 
filing suit against the Government, but those parents whose 
children were taken from them as a means of deterring irregular 
migration as a part of the zero tolerance policy of the prior 
administration, the family separation policy that received 
bipartisan condemnation, and quite frankly, the condemnation of 
the American public.
    What is an appropriate outcome of that litigation in 
response to the family separation policy, the cruel policy, is 
something I cannot opine on. I'm just not----
    Senator Cotton. Since you called the policy cruel, let me 
ask you this. During the Biden administration, has the 
Department of Homeland Security ever separated a single illegal 
alien from someone they claim is their child?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes, but not as part of the zero 
tolerance policy, not as part of the family separation policy 
that was so cruel. Let me explain.
    Senator Cotton. Okay. I understand that you're saying it's 
not part of the policy.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I'm sorry. If I may, Senator.
    Senator Cotton. No. Actually, no, you may not. It's my 
time. I'm sorry. My time is limited. You've said that the 
Department of Homeland Security has done this during the Biden 
administration. You were the Deputy Secretary during the Obama 
administration. Did the Department of Homeland Security ever 
separate a single illegal alien from someone they claimed that 
was their child in the Obama administration?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Neither in the Biden administration, 
nor in the Obama administration did we execute the zero 
tolerance policy that the Trump administration promulgated and 
cruelly enforced.
    Senator Cotton. I'd say the policies you've been 
implementing are complete tolerance for illegal migrants 
crossing our border.
    Let's turn our attention there. How many illegal aliens 
crossed into the country, into the United States in 2020?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I don't have the----
    Senator Cotton. I have the numbers from CBP in front of me. 
It's 458,000. How many illegal aliens have crossed into the 
United States in 2021, which I would note still has 6 weeks to 
go?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I believe the number, taking out of 
that approximately $1.7 million, the number of recidivists, so 
in other words, unique individuals, approximately 1.3, 1.4 
million would be my estimate.
    Senator Cotton. Okay. I have 1.7, but that's fine. It's 
somewhere between two and a half to four times as much.
    Secretary Mayorkas. No, because the 1.7 million figure to 
which you refer, Senator, includes recidivists.
    Senator Cotton. Okay. Let's say it's 1.3. It's still two 
and a half times. Are you satisfied that two and a half times 
as many illegal migrants have crossed into this country this 
year as compared to last year?
    Secretary Mayorkas. No, I'm not. Worse is to promulgate and 
operationalize a policy that defies our values as a nation.
    Senator Cotton. How about that defies our sovereignty as a 
nation?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Our sovereignty is unflinching.
    Senator Cotton. Oh, really? Because as it stands now at the 
border, anyone from anywhere in the world can simply show up 
and cross into this country.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I don't think that the hundreds of 
thousands of individuals who have been expelled under Title 42, 
the CDC's authority, would actually----
    Senator Cotton. The 1.7 million who have crossed here 
probably think so. Let me conclude with this. What should be a 
higher priority of the U.S. Government, securing our border or 
giving amnesty to illegal aliens who are already here?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, justice is our priority. That 
includes securing our border and providing relief to those who 
qualify for it under our laws.
    Senator Cotton. You refuse to prioritize whether we should 
try to protect our border from people crossing it who have zero 
right to be here or giving amnesty to the millions of people 
that are in this country illegally.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I disagree wholeheartedly with 
the phrasing of your question. It is an inaccurate phrasing of 
our missions, our responsibilities, our challenges, and our 
actions.
    Senator Cotton. How is it inaccurate?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Because of the fact that----
    Senator Cotton. I mean, we have had 1.3 million by your own 
admission cross just this year. There are millions more in this 
country who are here illegally. I'm simply asking you, what is 
more important? What's a higher priority of the U.S. 
Government, to protect our border or to give amnesty to those 
who are here illegally?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, we do not have the authority, 
nor the intention to give amnesty----
    Senator Cotton. You testified that you wanted it though in 
your opening statement. A pathway to citizenship, legal status, 
whatever you want to call it. Any kind of adjustment. What's 
more important, securing our border or giving some kind of 
adjustment to the legal status of those illegal aliens present 
in the country today?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I consider those to be both 
very significant priorities, because they are inextricably 
intertwined. If in fact we can pass legislation that fixes once 
and for all our immigration system, we will have addressed in a 
material part the challenges at our border, and it will advance 
our efforts to secure it.
    Senator Cotton. They are intertwined chiefly because the 
open borders that you and Joe Biden have permitted have 
attracted even more illegal immigrants here. That means our 
border's even more open than it ever has been.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Cotton. Senator Lee, we're 
on the second round of questions, 3 minutes.
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, on 
some of these questions including the questions many of my 
colleagues have asked about the proposed settlement with those 
who have crossed our borders unlawfully, you've indicated 
you're inclined to dodge the question. I don't expect that to 
change between now and the end of this hearing, but I do want 
to communicate to you some of the things that I've been hearing 
all over the place from people across the political spectrum 
throughout the State of Utah.
    A lot of them really don't like that. They don't appreciate 
it. You know, the average family of four in Utah has a total 
household income of $71,000. If you've got a family of four 
that crossed through our borders unlawfully and was subject to 
this settlement agreement, you'd be looking at $1.8 million in 
a settlement. You know, it would take two, two and a half 
decades for the average family of four in Utah to earn that.
    The thought that the Federal Government is offering that as 
a reward, as an incentive, for people who cross through our 
borders unlawfully is unthinkable to many Utahans, as well it 
should be. People of Utah, people of the United States 
certainly deserve better than that. The fact that this was even 
seriously considered is troubling to me. I don't know why we'd 
want to do that, and I certainly don't believe that one can 
deny the impact that this would have as a magnet for future 
illegal immigration.
    About 60 percent of those here unlawfully are visa 
overstays, people who came here lawfully and then fell out of 
their lawful status. I wish we had more time and I could ask 
you, you know, what you're doing to apprehend those people. I 
wish I could ask you further things like what additional 
resources you might need, because it'd be good to know what we 
could do for you to be able to gain operational control of the 
border again, which the American people want and expect and 
need and deserve.
    Look, the Department of Homeland Security has clearly 
failed in its mission to maintain operational control of its 
borders. The Department itself acknowledges how important it 
is. Over two million people have likely crossed over our 
southern border illegally this year with no end in sight. I see 
no concrete plan for stopping these border surges. Instead, 
your Department's focused on climate change. These facts seem 
to indicate, Mr. Secretary, that Americans cannot hope to keep 
fentanyl out of their communities, that terrorists and gang 
members can't be kept out of their neighborhoods, and criminal 
aliens off their streets as long as you're in charge of the 
Department of Homeland Security and running it the way that 
you've been running it.
    This cannot continue for the safety of the American people, 
including people like the woman who was recently raped in open 
sight in a Philadelphia subway train, just recently, by someone 
who shouldn't have been here in the first place, who had a 
criminal alien background. I implore you. You've got to fix 
this. Fix it or step down. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Lee. Senator Graham.
    Senator Graham. Thank you. Let's get the numbers right. I 
want to work with you where I can, but I want the American 
people to understand. Of the 1.7 million that came across 
illegally that we've apprehended, what happened to them? Okay. 
You said previously 965,000 were subject to Title 42 expulsion. 
Is that basically correct?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Graham. How many were expelled?
    Secretary Mayorkas. No, I believe that number represents--
my information is that that number represents the----
    Senator Graham. All of them.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes, the individuals----
    Senator Graham. Okay. We'll check that, but let's just--all 
of them. You said that 40,000 were removed under Title 8. Is 
that correct?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes, that's----
    Senator Graham. Taken out of the country. 125,000 were sent 
over to HHS. How many of them left the country?
    Secretary Mayorkas. That number I don't have.
    Senator Graham. I can tell you. All of them are still here. 
We called HHS. None of them have left the country of any 
substance, so that's 125,000 pretty much.
    You said 375,000 were released into the United States. 
That's what you said before. Is that accurate?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, can you repeat the number? 
Because I know that----
    Senator Graham. Here's what you're--and this is why I'm 
doing it. You said previously 375,000 of the 1.7 were released 
in the United States. Is that still accurate?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Approximately.
    Senator Graham. Okay. We're not--you know, just be 
approximate here.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes.
    Senator Graham. So I want people to know, the 125,000 
unaccompanied minors, they went from one Government agency to 
the other, but they're still here, and they're never going to 
leave.
    The 375,000 were released into the United States. That's a 
half a million of the 1.7 still here.
    Secretary Mayorkas. If I may, those individuals, the 375 
approximately, are in immigration enforcement proceedings.
    Senator Graham. Right. We know that there's over a million 
people who had a final order of deportation that are still 
here. The point is, of the 1.7 million that came here, half a 
million are still here, and there's a 230,000 gap. What 
happened to the 230,000?
    Secretary Mayorkas. If I may, Senator, and I think it's 
very important to know that of the 1.7 million, that is not 1.7 
million different individuals, because there is a rate of 
recidivism.
    Senator Graham. Are these people--did they come across in 
the time period in question? I don't care if they've come 
before. Did they come again?
    Secretary Mayorkas. They were encountered in----
    Senator Graham.It doesn't matter if this is their third 
time. Did they come?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Yes, but----
    Senator Graham. Okay. The point is 1.7 million people came. 
Some of them were recidivists. The point is if you look at this 
chart very quickly, Mr. Chairman, about half the people that 
came are still here, 40 percent, and that's unacceptable. 
People know throughout the world that if you come here, you've 
got a one in three chance of never leaving. That's got to 
change. I want to work with you to make that happen. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Graham. I believe that 
Senator Cruz is next.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you Mr.----
    Chair Durbin. Oh, I forgot to look to my left, which is 
rare. Senator Blumenthal comes before you.
    Senator Cruz. Feel free to continue not looking to your 
left.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, I 
was asking you a little while ago about the precise numbers of 
resources and the timeline. The reason that I'm very intent on 
resettling and the numbers and the timeline is I don't want to 
be back here in 6 months from now and for you to say, ``If only 
we had the resources.'' I would like you to tell me what the 
resources are now so that we can hold ourselves accountable if 
we fail to provide them. We have an obligation to provide them 
so that the Afghan refugees who come here, they are allies and 
partners who have been at our side in Afghanistan who put their 
lives on the line. They've risked their families, and they are 
coming here because they have targets on their backs there, and 
we have an obligation. It's a moral imperative.
    I want to salute all the veterans' groups and everyone 
involved in the effort. My office has been a part of a 
coalition that has enabled flights to leave. As to everyone 
who's coming to this country, we have an obligation to make 
sure they have jobs and housing and healthcare. I know you 
share that view.
    You've also been asked this morning about the so-called 
separation policy, family separation policy which resulted from 
children being torn from their parents. I know you have some 
firsthand experience with some of these families. Could you 
tell us a little bit about the harm that results from families 
being torn apart in this way and why the president of the 
American Academy of Pediatrics called Trump's policy, quote, 
``Government-sanctioned child abuse''?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Thank you, Senator. Let me make it 
perfectly clear that neither the Obama administration or the 
Biden administration executed the zero tolerance policy of 
separating children from their parents to deter irregular 
migration.
    In direct response to your question, what comes immediately 
to mind is my conversation with a mother who was, in fact, 
through our work, reunited with her teenage daughter. She said 
that the emotional and psychological separation continues, that 
the daughter, at a young age, did not understand why her mother 
could not protect her from the cruelty of the prior 
administration, and there remains a distance between them that 
both the mother and the daughter continue to suffer. That is 
why I say that the cruelty is tragically a lasting one, and 
we're doing what we can to address it.
    Senator Blumenthal. You and I as lawyers and others, as a 
matter of fact, Members of this Committee who have been 
attorneys general of their State as I have been, or United 
States Attorney, as I have been also, and an Assistant United 
States Attorney, know that sometimes, governments are sued, 
State and Federal Governments, and settlements are in the best 
interest of those governments because a trial could result in 
even greater liability than a settlement could. Am I correct in 
that view?
    Secretary Mayorkas. You are, Senator. I think the American 
public was united in its condemnation of the family separation 
policy of this prior administration, and it is that public that 
will constitute a jury in any trial.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. Senator Cruz.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary Mayorkas, 
you told Senator Graham that you've released somewhere between 
500,000, 700,000 illegal aliens. You told me you don't know how 
many of those had COVID. You told me further you don't know how 
many of those were sexually assaulted by the human traffickers 
who brought them in.
    When you were talking with Chairman Durbin, you talked 
about catch and release. Chairman Durbin asked you whether 
illegal immigrants who are released under catch and release and 
given a court date in the future, whether they show up. You 
responded, quote, ``The great majority do, Mr. Chairman.''
    Secretary Mayorkas, I believe that testimony is false. It 
is contrary to virtually every public reporting on the matter. 
For example, I'm looking at a July 27th, 2021, story in Axios 
that describes just 13 percent of migrants had shown up after 
catch and release. You know you're under oath and subject to 
the penalty of perjury. Do you stand by your testimony to this 
Committee that the great majority of illegal aliens released 
under catch and release show up voluntarily at court 
proceedings?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Can I give you the data that I have at 
my disposal----
    Senator Cruz. Sure.
    Secretary Mayorkas [continuing]. Senator? The percentage of 
noncitizens who have checked in who have been compliant with 
the alternatives to detention or are within their reporting 
timeframe----
    Senator Cruz. That's not the question. How many show up at 
the court hearing?
    Secretary Mayorkas [continuing]. Is 65 percent.
    Senator Cruz. You're giving stats that aren't answering the 
question. How many show up at the court hearing? The stat from 
Axios showed 13 percent. You're claiming 13 percent is the 
great majority.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Let me--I'm pulling from the data I 
have, Senator. I will verify the accuracy of the data after my 
testimony today and report back to you because----
    Senator Cruz. If your testimony is the great majority show 
up for hearing is wrong and false testimony, you will correct 
it in writing. Let me ask you subsequently.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Oh, if I'm--no, let me----
    Senator Cruz. You won't correct it in writing?
    Secretary Mayorkas. No, I most certainly will, but I need 
to say something, Senator. That is that I take my oath----
    Senator Cruz. Fine. You take your oath seriously. My time 
is limited on that. Let me ask you another question.
    It's been reported the Biden administration is considering 
paying illegal immigrants whose families were separated 
$450,000 apiece. That would mean for a family of four, they 
would get $1.8 million.
    Secretary Mayorkas. That's not my understanding.
    Senator Cruz. What is your understanding?
    Secretary Mayorkas. My understanding, and it's drawn from 
news reports because this is not something that the Department 
of Homeland Security----
    Senator Cruz. You're the defendant in the lawsuits.
    Secretary Mayorkas [continuing]. Is that it is that amount 
of money per family, but I may be mistaken.
    Senator Cruz. That is not what has been publicly reported. 
It is per person. Do you think it is a good idea to pay illegal 
immigrants four and a half times what we pay the family of a 
service member who's killed in combat? If we pay millions of 
dollars to illegal immigrants, in your professional judgment, 
will we get more illegal immigration or less illegal 
immigration?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, let me say this, that I do not 
think a mother would travel to the United States in the hands 
of traffickers so that she can be separated from her 7-year-old 
daughter for a period of time, the duration of which she has no 
idea----
    Senator Cruz. Can you answer the question? Those were two 
yes and no questions.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I do not think that it would be a pull 
factor.
    Senator Cruz. I said is it a good idea to pay them the 
money, and would you get more illegal immigration or less 
immigration if you give millions of dollars to illegal 
immigrants? More or less.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I cannot speak to the advisability of 
settling Federal Tort Claims Act in which I am not involved.
    Senator Cruz. You have no view on whether paying illegal 
immigrants----
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Cruz.
    Senator Cruz [continuing]. Millions of dollars creates more 
illegal immigration?
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Cruz.
    Senator Cruz. Can he answer the question?
    Chair Durbin. You asked that question two or three times.
    Senator Cruz. He's refused to answer it two or three times.
    Chair Durbin. Your time is expired. You've gone longer than 
any other----
    Senator Cruz. The secretary of DHS has no idea whether 
paying illegal aliens millions of dollars produces more illegal 
immigration.
    Chair Durbin. No, Senator. It has nothing to do with the 
substance of the question, but the fact----
    Senator Cruz. Are you going to give him an opportunity to 
answer or----
    Chair Durbin. Once again, you've gone longer than any other 
senator. Senator Padilla.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Mayorkas, we 
have a couple of additional questions.
    I know in the first round of questioning, actually had a 
couple areas that we were complimenting your leadership and the 
Department on, and I want to share with the Committee another 
positive announcement that you made back in July.
    I was pleased to hear at the time that you and Secretary 
McDonough were starting a new initiative to bring back 
noncitizen military service members and veterans and their 
families who had been removed from the United States. This past 
June, I held a meeting of my Subcommittee on this issue, and 
just this week introduced the Veteran Deportation Prevention 
and Reform Act. This bill would put processes in place to 
reduce the removal of veterans who bravely fought for our 
country, and yet missed the opportunity to become United States 
citizens while serving in the military.
    I want to thank you for your partnership on that and for 
working with me on another specific case. Mr. Howard Bailey, a 
Navy veteran who is now back home in the United States with his 
family after nearly a decade. He had been deported for an old 
charge that had since been pardoned.
    I am curious to know what steps the Department has taken 
since the announcement made back in July. Can you share any 
updates on the work of the initiative and what progress has 
been made to bring our deported veterans home and if there's 
specific plans that the Department has to improve the 
naturalization rates of noncitizen military service members 
while they are serving?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, thank you so much for your 
dedication to this issue. We indeed have a concerted effort to 
bring back veterans who are unjustly deported, and we have a 
concerted effort to ensure that veterans are aware of the 
immigration benefits to which they might be entitled and could 
avail themselves of those benefits.
    We have indeed I believe brought back five veterans under 
this program. We have published education materials to the 
veteran community and the broader public to advise the veteran 
community of the immigration benefits to which they might be 
entitled. This effort is under the leadership of Debra Rogers, 
who has dedicated her career to this effort, and I would 
welcome the opportunity to keep your office informed of our 
progress.
    Senator Padilla. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I certainly 
look forward to working with you to improve the naturalization 
rates of individuals who enlist with that aspiration, in some 
cases expectation, and restoring the process that facilitates, 
not obstructs their ability to become citizens. Thank you, Mr. 
Chair.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Hawley.
    Senator Hawley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary 
Mayorkas, just a few additional questions. I just want to 
clarify something you just testified to--to Senator Cruz. I 
think you just said that your view is that paying illegal 
immigrants $450,000 or more, million more per family, million 
eight, that that is not a pull factor. In other words, it 
wouldn't encourage more illegal immigration, right? You said 
not a pull factor, your words.
    Secretary Mayorkas. May I have the opportunity to answer 
this question?
    Senator Hawley. I just want to be--you said not a pull 
factor, right? I couldn't quite hear you at the time, so I just 
want to be sure that's what you said.
    Secretary Mayorkas. The settlement payment of the Federal 
Tort Claim charge arising from a family separation effected 
under the prior administration's zero tolerance policy would 
not be a pull factor. That is my testimony.
    Senator Hawley. Understood. I think that's news that you 
think that these payments to illegal immigrants would not be a 
pull factor that paying them would not encourage more illegal 
immigration. That's news. Thank you for that.
    I want to ask you about something else that's been in the 
news. Back in March when the President said that Vice President 
Harris would be his Border Tzar, he said, ``She's the most 
qualified person to help in stemming the movement of so many 
folks, stemming the migration to our southern border.'' That's 
President Biden. Do you report to her?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I report to the Vice President 
and the President, and your question misstates the facts. The 
President did not appoint the Vice President to be the Border 
Tzar. He asked her to lead the effort in addressing the root 
causes of irregular migration. Those are two very different 
things.
    Senator Hawley. Ah, I see. Is she working closely with you 
on that important endeavor? How often do you meet with her?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I am certainly in close touch with the 
Vice President.
    Senator Hawley. How often do you meet on this subject?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I've met with the Vice President more 
than a handful of times.
    Senator Hawley. More than a handful? So what's that mean, 
six or seven times in the last year?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Oh, no. First of all, I have not been 
in office for a year, Senator. Second, I am in close touch----
    Senator Hawley. She's very involved in the Department's 
policies and in what's happening at the southern border. Have 
you traveled to the border together?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, allow me to repeat my 
testimony that the Vice President's focus is on addressing the 
root cause----
    Senator Hawley. I heard your testimony. I'm asking you a 
question. My question is do you travel to the border together? 
Are you devising policies together?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I have traveled to the border once with 
the Vice President to El Paso, Texas so that she could see 
firsthand the challenges that we face.
    Senator Hawley. Has she been part of your policies, so your 
decision to end the Remain in Mexico policy, to end the Public 
Charge rule, to change the ICE guidance? Has she been part of 
those decisions?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I have not consulted with the Vice 
President directly about those policies.
    Senator Hawley. What is she doing exactly? You said she's 
not the Border Tzar, that that's not her role. We were wrong 
about that. She's not doing anything like that. She's doing 
something very different is what your testimony is, but you're 
not actually consulting with her on any policy. What is it that 
she's doing exactly?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, as I have repeatedly 
testified, she is focused on addressing the root causes of 
irregular migration in the context of the migration challenge.
    Senator Hawley. How has that been going?
    Secretary Mayorkas. That is a--we are advancing 
considerably. In fact, I am contributing to that effort. I have 
met with----
    Senator Hawley. Do you think the policies are working?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I have met with the leadership in 
Mexico, in Guatemala, in El Salvador, in Honduras and other 
countries to address----
    Senator Hawley. Those efforts are working? That's been 
successful?
    Secretary Mayorkas. This is a process----
    Chair Durbin. Time is expired.
    Secretary Mayorkas [continuing]. That takes time and 
delivers an enduring solution.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Grassley.
    Senator Grassley. Mr. Secretary, what specific criminal 
conduct would cause an Afghan evacuee parole to be terminated?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, it is conduct in violation of 
parole will require us to conduct an individualized 
examination, understand the facts and circumstances of the 
violation, and we will be able to revoke--we will revoke 
parole.
    Senator Grassley. Can you name the--I'm after the type of 
criminal activity that would cause the parole to be terminated. 
Just give me a couple, three examples.
    Secretary Mayorkas. It could be anything. It could be----
    Senator Grassley. Okay. Then let me go to the next question 
then. What's the status of an Afghan national housed at Fort 
Bliss who were involved in an alleged attack on a female 
service member on September the 19th? Has that parole been 
terminated?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I am not familiar with the 
case of which you speak. I do know that an individual who 
sexually assaulted another individual on a base is being 
criminally prosecuted, and immigration detainer has been posted 
as well so that immigration enforcement proceedings, removal 
proceedings, can follow the consequences of the criminal 
prosecution.
    Senator Grassley. They will be removed then.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I don't know specifically the name of 
the individual of which you speak, but if we have the same case 
in mind, the answer is affirmative.
    Senator Grassley. Okay. Another case--and this could be the 
one you're referring to as well. I don't know which one you 
might have in mind. What's the current status of an Afghan 
national housed at Fort McCoy who was recently indicted for 
assaulting his wife? Has his parole been terminated? If so, 
when would they be removed?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I don't know the name of the 
individual, the case to which you refer. It's hard for me to 
answer based on a generic description of the case, but I will 
say this. An individual who is charged criminally, an 
immigration detainer will be placed on that individual. Pending 
the outcome of the criminal charges, we will determine whether 
the immigration enforcement proceeding will, in fact, be 
pursued. Removal will be effected and of course parole 
terminated.
    Senator Grassley. Okay. Last question. Then another case 
like that. What's the current status of an Afghan national 
flown out of Kabul and transferred to the United States on 
August 26th who was convicted of felony rape in Idaho in 2010? 
That's already convicted. When will that person be removed and 
to what country will they be removed?
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, once again, I would need 
further identifiers with respect to that case, and I would be 
surprised, if we discovered a prior conviction, that parole was 
not already terminated. I would be pleased to follow-up with 
your office on the facts of that case.
    Senator Grassley. Okay. Then on those three specific cases, 
or maybe it's four, I will make sure that you get a written 
request and answer those specific cases because if these people 
are criminally charged, we want them removed.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Grassley. Senator Blackburn.
    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, 
thank you for allowing us a second round.
    During the first round, for the record, I just want to say 
this. You wanted to challenge the stats that I was using. But 
the stats we're using are Government stats, and they are 
accurate. Your attitude during that response was duly noted.
    I want to go to part of the response you gave to Chairman 
Durbin when you talked about technology. I have talked with 
local law enforcement and Border Patrol on the border, and yes, 
they all say they have needed the wall. They need technology 
where the wall cannot go. They need more agents and judges. But 
they have told me repeatedly that you all are removing 
technology from the border. I would like to know if that is 
accurate or inaccurate, and if you want to come back to me with 
the response in writing, that would be helpful because 
technology is something they need for surveillance.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, I'd be very pleased to 
followup with you because I'm not aware of the removal of 
technology.
    Let me also, if I may, and because you referenced my 
attitude, and I hope I was unflinchingly respectful on response 
to your questions, and I apologize if you took it otherwise. I 
certainly did not mean to be.
    Senator Blackburn. Let me return to a question. Senator 
Graham has asked you, and I notified your staff that I was 
going to ask you this question, the total number of illegal 
immigrants in this country with an NTA or an NTR, and we would 
like to have that total number. Today you've been unable to 
provide that number.
    Secretary Mayorkas. I have that number, if I may.
    Senator Blackburn. Okay. That'd be wonderful.
    Secretary Mayorkas. Senator, between January 1st and 
October 31st of 2021, my data indicates that 210,465 
noncitizens were issued notices to appear, and 95--I'm sorry. 
94,581 were issued notices to report. We've discontinued the 
practice of issuing notices to report.
    Senator Blackburn. Okay. We still have a lot of people that 
we do not know where they are in this country. If those are 
your numbers for what you have issued as NTAs and NTRs, but you 
also say there are 1.7 million people that have entered. In 
talking to Border Patrol, they think the got-aways number is 
high as 1.5 million. You know, it leads me to this number that 
you all say is in the country where you continue to use the 11 
million number. I know Yale and other universities in their 
studies have challenged that number. You, as head of DHS, 
should have a more appropriate number for us. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Blackburn. Mr. Secretary, 
I don't see anyone else seeking a second round, so I'm going to 
wrap it up with my own round and try to make it as brief as I 
can, but to try to clarify two or three issues that have been 
raised.
    First, the question of civil compensation under the Federal 
Tort Claim Act to parents whose children were removed from them 
forcibly, some of whom have never been reunited, strikes me as 
a former plaintiff's attorney, as a pretty solid lawsuit, and 
to characterize these people as illegal aliens is wrong. At the 
time that those people present themselves at the border, they 
are not in an illegal situation whatsoever. They are asking for 
asylum, and separation that took place at that point would not 
be from an illegal alien parent, as I understand it.
    Second, to suggest that this is a pull factor, some civil 
settlement for taking your child away from you, perhaps never 
to be reunited, how many people will head to the United States 
border to take advantage of that bargain, to give up your child 
or to be separated from them forcibly? I think that's a 
ridiculous conclusion.
    Second, I understand one of the Senators keeps talking 
about cages. If I recall correctly during the Trump 
administration, many of these children were not given the 
benefit of even a roof over their heads in America. They were 
sent back for Remain in Mexico, a policy which this 
administration does not support. I don't think they're going 
back into the loving arms of a day camp situation, but rather 
in many instances were exploited and in danger and the Remain 
in Mexico situation, which is why we have not embraced it.
    Finally, let me suggest that your staff take a look at the 
findings of the study by the American Immigration Council 
released in January 2021, which found as follows: survey of 
nearly 3 million immigration court hearings spanning more than 
a decade found that 83 percent of all non-detained immigrants 
attended every single one of their court hearings, 83 percent; 
15 percent of those immigrants who did miss a court hearing or 
ordered deported were later able to successfully reopen their 
case and have their removal orders rescinded. Catch and 
release, 83 percent, 98 percent. If they had a lawyer 
representing them, it was a 96 percent appearance. Catch and 
release, that just doesn't square with this notion. I hope 
you'll take a look at it and critique it for me if you think it 
is a credible study. It sounds like as much to me.
    Would you like to comment on any of those observations?
    Secretary Mayorkas. I affirm the statements you've just 
articulated, Mr. Chairman, especially vigorously with respect 
to the Federal Tort Claims Act and what parents endured in 
being ripped apart from their children, some of whom have yet 
to see their children again.
    Chair Durbin. God forbid, these 1,800 kids who are still 
separated, that their parents are trying to ask for some 
compensation from that horrible thing that happened to them. 
That is hardly a pull factor in any circumstance.
    I thank you for your patience. I know this was a trial, and 
you've weathered it well from my perspective. There may be some 
followup questions for the record, which I hope you'll respond 
to in a timely fashion.
    And with that, the Senate Judiciary Committee stands 
adjourned.	
    [Whereupon, at 1:37 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Additional material submitted for the record follows.] 
    
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