[Senate Hearing 117-839]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                                                        S. Hrg. 117-839

                          DERELICTION OF DUTY:
                   EXAMINING THE INSPECTOR GENERAL'S
                      REPORT ON THE FBI'S HANDLING
                   OF THE LARRY NASSAR INVESTIGATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________


                           SEPTEMBER 15, 2021

                               __________


                          Serial No. J-117-34

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary





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                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                   RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair

PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont            CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa, Ranking 
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California             Member
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             JOHN CORNYN, Texas
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      TED CRUZ, Texas
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              BEN SASSE, Nebraska
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
ALEX PADILLA, California             TOM COTTON, Arkansas
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
                                     THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                     MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee

             Joseph Zogby, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
      Kolan L. Davis, Republican Chief Counsel and Staff Director








                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                     SEPTEMBER 15, 2021, 10:02 A.M.

                    STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS

                                                                   Page

Durbin, Hon. Richard J., a U.S. Senator from the State of 
  Illinois.......................................................     1
Grassley, Hon. Charles E., a U.S. Senator from the State of Iowa.     3
Feinstein, Hon. Dianne, a U.S. Senator from the State of 
  California.....................................................     5
Cornyn, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from the State of Texas........     5
Blumenthal, Hon. Richard, a U.S. Senator from the State of 
  Connecticut....................................................     7
Blackburn, Hon. Marsha, a U.S. Senator from the State of 
  Tennessee......................................................     8

                               WITNESSES

Witness List.....................................................    64
Biles, Simone, Houston, Texas....................................    12
    prepared statement...........................................    65
Horowitz, Hon. Michael E., Inspector General, United States 
  Department of Justice, Washington, DC..........................    35
    prepared statement...........................................    68
Maroney, McKayla, Long Beach, California.........................    14
    prepared statement...........................................    78
Moran, Hon. Jerry, U.S. Senator from the State of Kansas.........     9
Nichols, Hon. Maggie, Little Canada, Minnesota...................    16
    prepared statement...........................................    81
Raisman, Hon. Aly, Boston, Massachusetts.........................    18
    prepared statement...........................................    83
Wray, Hon. Christopher A., Director, Federal Bureau of 
  Investigation, Washington, DC..................................    33
    prepared statement...........................................    89

                               QUESTIONS

Questions submitted to Simone Biles by:
    Ranking Member Grassley......................................    92
Questions submitted to Hon. Michael E. Horowitz by:
    Ranking Member Grassley......................................    93
    Senator Tillis...............................................   102
    Senator Blackburn............................................   104
Questions submitted to McKayla Maroney by:
    Ranking Member Grassley......................................    92
Questions submitted to Maggie Nichols by:
    Ranking Member Grassley......................................    92
Questions submitted to Aly Raisman by:
    Ranking Member Grassley......................................    92
Questions submitted to Hon. Christopher A. Wray by:
    Ranking Member Grassley......................................    94
    Senator Leahy................................................    95
    Senator Whitehouse...........................................    96
    Senator Cornyn...............................................   101
    Senator Tillis...............................................   102
    Senator Blackburn............................................   105

                                ANSWERS

Responses of Hon. Michael E. Horowitz to questions submitted by:
Ranking Member Grassley..........................................   106
Senator Tillis...................................................   114
Senator Blackburn................................................   111

                MISCELLANEOUS SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD

CEG to DOJ FBI Briefing, August 12, 2020.........................   120
Letter to Senators Durbin and Grassley, September 14, 2021.......   126
Letter from the Phoenix 11, September 13, 2021...................   130
Letter to Attorney General Garland, from Senator Durbin, July 16, 
  2021...........................................................   136
Letter to U.S. Center for SafeSport from Senator Feinstein, 
  August 6, 2021.................................................   134
Letter from The Army of Survivors, September 13, 2021............   132
Miscellaneous Letters from Senator Grassley, August 12, 2020.....   116










 
                          DERELICTION OF DUTY:
                   EXAMINING THE INSPECTOR GENERAL'S
                      REPORT ON THE FBI'S HANDLING
                   OF THE LARRY NASSAR INVESTIGATION

                              ----------                              


                     WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 15, 2021

                               United States Senate
                                 Committee on the Judiciary
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m., in 
Room 216, Hart Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J. Durbin, 
Chair of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Leahy, Feinstein, 
Whitehouse, Klobuchar, Coons, Blumenthal, Hirono, Booker, 
Padilla, Ossoff, Grassley, Cornyn, Cruz, Hawley, Cotton, and 
Blackburn.
    Also present: Senator Moran.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,

           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

    Chair Durbin. The hearing will come to order.
    Today, we're holding an oversight hearing to examine the 
Inspector General's recent report on the FBI's handling of 
allegations against Larry Nassar, the predator who abused 
hundreds of young women before he was charged and convicted in 
2017.
    Almost five years ago exactly, on September 12, 2016, the 
Illinois--pardon me, the Indianapolis Star broke the story of 
Nassar's sexual assaults. The story blew the whistle on 
decades, decades, of Nassar's abuse. Unbeknownst to the public 
at that time, the Federal Bureau of Investigation had received 
information about Nassar's conduct 15 months prior to the 
article, yet failed to take any action to protect Nassar's 
victims or investigate the abuses. Since then, numerous reports 
of sexual assault in athletic programs have highlighted 
athletes' special vulnerability to abuse.
    Last week in my home State of Illinois, an article 
published in the Chicago Tribune spotlighted a former Chicago 
Blackhawks coach who pled guilty to sexual conduct with a high 
school student he was coaching. Cases like these make clear 
that sexual abuse of young athletes is a persistent problem 
that teams, leagues, athletic associations, and other 
institutions are failing to prevent. It shocks the conscience 
when those failures come from law enforcement itself. Yet, that 
is exactly what happened in the Nassar case.
    For decades, while Larry Nassar worked as team doctor for a 
number of gymnastic organizations, he abused young athletes 
under the guise of medical treatment. Nassar used his trusted 
position to take advantage of his patients. He used the 
competitive nature of sports to hide in plain sight. By the 
time Nassar was convicted and sentenced in Federal and Michigan 
State court, over 150 survivors had come forward to recount the 
impact of these horrific crimes.
    Today, we believe Nassar abused more than 300 athletes 
before he was brought to justice. As the details of Nassar's 
crimes emerged, there's been a consistent theme of neglect and 
inaction by those who are responsible for protecting the 
athletes.
    Between 2018 and 2019, a Subcommittee of the Senate 
Commerce Committee, led by our colleagues Senator Richard 
Blumenthal and Senator Jerry Moran, conducted an 18-month 
investigation into this case. The investigation concluded that 
the U.S. Olympic Committee and the USA Gymnastics knowingly 
concealed abuse by Nassar between the summer of 2015 and 
September 2016.
    The Senate passed two bills aimed at addressing the 
failures in the Nassar case with overwhelming bipartisan 
support. The Protecting Young Victims from Sexual Abuse Act of 
2017, sponsored by Senator Feinstein, and the Empowering 
Olympic, Paralympic, and Amateur Athletes Act of 2020, by 
Senators Moran and Blumenthal, both extended the duty of 
certain adults to report suspected child abuse. These are good 
and important steps, but the reporting requirement in both laws 
is not worth much if law enforcement and the FBI fail to 
respond and immediately and aggressively investigate the abuse 
cases. That's exactly what happened in the Nassar case.
    The Inspector General's findings in this--his July report 
paint a shocking picture of FBI dereliction of duty and gross 
incompetence. The Inspector General's scathing report details 
the neglect and inaction of the FBI in inspecting the Nassar 
allegations beginning in July 2015, 15 months before they were 
publicly reported. The facts revealed by the Inspector General 
expose the apathetic, incompetent, and unethical senior FBI 
officials.
    In the 15-month period that FBI officials shirked their 
responsibility, Nassar abused at least 70 young athletes. For 
many of them, this was a continuation. For others, they were 
abused for the first time while the FBI sat on the case. The 
FBI waited weeks from the initial report to undertake any 
investigative activity. The FBI failed to timely interview key 
witness. The FBI failed to properly document witness statements 
and store evidence. The FBI failed to inform State and local 
authorities of Nassar's abuse when it believed the assault 
allegations likely did not fall within Federal jurisdiction.
    One senior FBI official went so far as to seek a job with 
USA Gymnastics CEO at the same time he was overseeing the FBI's 
failed investigative effort. Then, to add insult to injury, the 
FBI supervisors doctored the paperwork, misled the media, and 
lied to the Inspector General in an effort to conceal their 
dereliction of duty.
    Some may be tempted to minimize this misconduct as a fault 
of a few bad apples. Make no mistake. Egregious failures like 
this one do not arise out of nowhere. They are enabled by 
systematic organizational failures of training, supervision, 
hiring, and promotion.
    I'm committing to pursuing legislation to hold abusers 
accountable and provide justice to survivors. I know many of my 
colleagues feel exactly the same.
    Today, our focus is on the FBI. How did it fail so badly 
when it came to Larry Nassar's victims? What are FBI leaders 
today doing to ensure that this never happens again? Today, we 
are fortunate to hear from four outstanding witnesses who 
survived Larry Nassar's abuse. They, and the hundreds of 
athletes who also suffered at the hands of Nassar, deserve much 
better from everyone, including the FBI. We'll also hear from 
the Inspector General and the FBI director who owe these young 
women and this Committee an explanation of what the FBI is 
doing to ensure that this never happens again.
    I'll add that I am disappointed. We asked the Justice 
Department to testify about their decision not to prosecute the 
two FBI officials who made false statements to the IG. I 
understand it's a long-standing Department policy not to 
comment on decisions not to prosecute. Robust oversight of the 
Department of Justice is a core responsibility of this 
Committee. I'm committed to ensuring that Committee Members 
have an opportunity to question the Department of Justice about 
this issue at an oversight hearing in the fall.
    The FBI's handling of the Nassar case is a stain on the 
Bureau. As Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, I'm committed 
to working to ensure that the failures of the FBI, the gross 
failures of the FBI in this case, will never be repeated. I 
recognize Ranking Member Grassley.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES E. GRASSLEY,

             A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF IOWA

    Senator Grassley. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, for a very 
strong and appropriate statement that you just made. Thank you 
for holding this hearing. Thank you for involving me and others 
in this hearing as well.
    As the former Chairman of this Committee, I convened a 
hearing in 2017 on the importance of protecting young athletes 
against abuse. It took place before Larry Nassar, the now 
disgraced team doctor from the USA Gymnastics, was convicted. 
Our Committee heard then from other gymnasts about a culture in 
competitive sports that made it difficult for many girls to 
come forward and report their sexual abuse. That hearing 
convinced me of the need to champion legislation on which I 
worked closely with Senator Feinstein, then Ranking Member, in 
2017. Its enactment means that coaches, instructors, and others 
who work with young athletes now are mandatory reporters of 
child exploitation or abuse.
    Because oversight of the FBI is one of our Committee's 
important duties, I also repeatedly pressed the FBI for more 
information on its handling of the Nassar investigation from 
2017 to the present. FBI personnel ignored my staff's request 
in January 2018 for a briefing. When I contacted the FBI by 
letter to restate the request, I was advised that the Inspector 
General was reviewing the matter.
    The FBI, while one of our premiere law enforcement 
agencies, has stumbled in several ways in recent years. In a 
recent example, an Associated Press investigation identified 
half a dozen sexual misconduct allegations involving senior FBI 
personnel over the past five years, with each of the accused 
officials avoiding discipline.
    Another shocking example came to light this summer, when 
the Inspector General completed his report on the handling of 
sexual abuse allegations against the former team doctor for USA 
Gymnastics. It was then that we learned that the FBI severely 
let down dozens of teenage girls, several of whom bravely came 
forward in 2015 to report their abuse.
    Children suffered needlessly because of multiple agents in 
multiple offices that the FBI neglected to share Nassar's 
allegations with their law enforcement counterparts at the 
State and local levels. Disturbingly, the abuse occurred at the 
hands of someone who was entrusted with their medical treatment 
and well-being. Brave survivors, now poised young women, are 
with us today, and we welcome you and your testimony.
    The FBI, in its July 13th response to the Inspector 
General's report, attributes this episode to a few agents at 
the FBI field offices who neglected to carry out their duties 
properly. I suspect there's much more to that story. One issue 
not talked about much is that the FBI has a division in 
Washington, DC known as the Violent Crimes Against Children 
Unit. This component of headquarters was notified by two of its 
field offices about the Nassar allegations way back in 2015 and 
2016, respectively. The Children's Unit employs subject matter 
experts, so it is well-positioned in the FBI to guide that--
those field offices on their duties in child exploitation cases 
because it's housed at headquarters.
    This Children's Unit was also uniquely positioned to play a 
coordinating role by supervising case transfers to the 
appropriate FBI field offices. This Unit was well-positioned to 
offer qualitative supervision of field office's work, for 
example, by ensuring that follow-up occurs in sensitive cases. 
Tragically, it's obvious these things did not happen. The FBI, 
including this Children's Unit, also placed publicity and its 
image before victims' protection in this case.
    The Children's Unit helped develop a whitepaper or, more 
accurately, a whitewash, after the Nassar case attracted 
national attention. Ensuring that truthful information was 
provided about the FBI's role in this investigation was clearly 
not the main priority. This is a serious problem at the heart 
of the FBI, not a case of a few errant agents.
    At today's hearing, I hope to hear more about exactly who 
at FBI headquarters other than its Children Unit knew about the 
Nassar allegations, how and when they learned of these 
allegations, and what they did in response. If there's one 
thing the Inspector General's report illustrates, it's this: 
that we need to make sure the Bureau is more effective and held 
more accountable.
    This episode is unfortunate too because, as I've said 
repeatedly, there are many extremely fine men and women in the 
FBI and many who serve their country well as employees of that 
superb agency. I look forward to hearing from young women who 
were the first to bravely come forward and share their 
experience of abuse. I also hope to hear from our Government 
witnesses on how to improve the FBI's approach in child 
exploitation cases, and how to ensure negligent agents are held 
accountable, just like Chairman Durbin has asked.
    Finally, I want to mention that I'm working on legislation 
to close the legislative loophole in the sex tourism statute 
that the Inspector General flagged in his report. This gap in 
the law allowed Larry Nassar to evade Federal prosecution for 
assaulting children while traveling abroad, and that can never 
happen again. I look forward to working with the Inspector 
General, Members on this Committee in making this necessary 
change in law. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Grassley. We look forward 
to working with you on a bipartisan basis. I now recognize 
Senator Dianne Feinstein of California.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DIANNE FEINSTEIN,

          A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

    Senator Feinstein. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    I welcome the opportunity to say a few words about this 
appalling abuse of young athletes and the failures of the FBI 
to protect them. It was more than five years ago that we heard 
about the horrific abuse perpetrated by Larry Nassar and began 
working to reform how amateur athletic organizations handle 
sexual abuse allegations. I have met several times with some of 
our witnesses--I believe two are here today--and other athletes 
who have been harmed by the conduct that we're all here today 
to discuss. The strength and the courage from--that I have seen 
from these young women is really astonishing and a role model 
for others. They are really the champions for sexual abuse 
prevention who are speaking out to ensure other young athletes 
don't suffer as they did.
    Unfortunately, their bravery in some cases has been met 
with a disturbing lack of action within the FBI. The findings 
in the Justice Department's Inspector General July report found 
serious problems with how the FBI conducted its investigation 
of Larry Nassar. The agency's failures allowed a sexual 
predator to continue to abuse more than 70 young women. That is 
inexcusable, Mr. Chairman. It should not be a survivor's burden 
to continually seek justice and demand an end to their 
nightmares. That's the job of our law enforcement agencies, and 
the FBI candidly must do better. Hopefully, this hearing will 
make that clear.
    It's our turn to take action on behalf of these women. 
Congress must do everything we can to protect others that come 
after them.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you for holding this hearing. 
Hopefully, we can ensure that these failures are never 
repeated.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Feinstein, thanks for your leadership 
on this issue as well. Senator Cornyn.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN CORNYN,

             A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

    Senator Cornyn. Mr. Chairman, thank you and Ranking Member 
Grassley for holding this hearing and giving me a chance to say 
a few words here at the beginning.
    As these women and countless survivors before them have 
demonstrated, it takes tremendous courage for victims of sexual 
assault to come forward and tell their story. Whether it's 
telling a family member, a friend, or law enforcement about 
their abuse, there are fears that their claims will not be 
taken seriously, or they'll be ignored, or that they, the 
victim, will somehow be blamed.
    Those fears cause survivors to remain silent for months, 
years, or even a lifetime. Unfortunately, the FBI's mishandling 
of this case has done nothing to convince survivors that their 
trauma will be treated with the urgency and care it deserves. 
When survivors make the difficult decision to come forward, 
they should not--should be treated with dignity and respect. 
That's the bare minimum, and it didn't happen here. If 
allegations raised by well-known world-class athletes are not 
taken seriously by the FBI, what hope do other victims of 
sexual assault have?
    If this monster was able to continue harming these women 
and girls after his victims first went to the FBI, how many 
other abusers have escaped justice? Again, if the FBI did so 
little in the investigation involving world-class athletes, 
what hope can an average American have, what faith can they 
have in the system?
    I wrote a letter to Inspector General Horowitz last summer 
urging him to release his report, which back then was overdue, 
so we could begin to answer some of these questions. I'm 
disappointed it took more than a year after that letter was 
sent for the report to be finally released, and it's fair to 
say that his report has left us with many questions.
    There were obviously catastrophic failures at multiple 
levels of law enforcement, which resulted in direct harm of 
these young women. The FBI had two separate opportunities to do 
its job, and it failed. In fact, it was the university police 
department that finally did a real investigation, one that 
finally brought Nassar to justice.
    I've always believed that the FBI should be the gold 
standard for law enforcement, and I believe that by and large 
it is. Instead, in examples like this, we see failure of 
ethics, failure of competence, and dishonesty. I'm eager to ask 
Director Horowitz--Inspector General Horowitz, excuse me--and 
Director Wray about the grave missteps made by the FBI and, 
more importantly, to understand the changes they will be 
implementing to make sure that nothing like this ever happens 
again.
    We must demand real change and real accountability, and 
we'll not be satisfied by platitudes and vague promises about 
improved performance. This nation must be a place where, when 
victims speak, they are not ignored. It must be a place where 
those who commit crimes like Larry Nassar are prosecuted to the 
fullest extent of the law. The FBI must demonstrate, as they 
have not attempted to do before, that they understand their 
failures, they will learn from them, and do better.
    Mr. Chairman, now I just want to recognize the leadership 
of Senator Moran, who will be testifying here, and Senator 
Blumenthal, on the part of the Commerce Committee and 
spearheading a lot of this investigation, urging us all to this 
point where we are today. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Cornyn. I'll echo that. The 
next person to speak will be Senator Richard Blumenthal who, on 
our side of the aisle, has been a real leader on the issue 
together with his partner in this effort, Senator Jerry Moran, 
who will testify just briefly afterwards. Senator Blumenthal, 
please proceed.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL,

          A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF CONNECTICUT

    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, and my 
gratitude to you for holding this profoundly significant 
hearing and to Senator Moran, my partner, who has worked 
tirelessly with me on this issue and been a great partner in 
our common effort. Most important, I really want to take the 
athletes and survivors who are here. You have truly inspired 
us. I will never forget the moment that we stood in the Kennedy 
Caucus Room. There were 40 or more of you, and you told us that 
you had been failed repeatedly by institutions that were 
supposed to protect you. You called on us to keep our word.
    Today's hearing is another step in our keeping the promise 
that we made to you then that we would work to hold accountable 
the institutions that failed you and to reform them and make 
sure that this kind of wrongdoing, more than wrongdoing, 
heinous, hideous abuse, never happens again.
    We have investigated and produced a report. We've asked the 
Inspector General to investigate as well, and he has produced a 
report. Let me just come right to the reason we're here today. 
It's not only that the FBI failed to do its job systematically 
and repeatedly. It is also the cover-up. The cover-up that 
occurred afterward, when FBI agents made material false 
statements and deceptive omissions referred by the Inspector 
General for criminal prosecution. Those referrals were declined 
without explanation, without any public explanation at all.
    My hope is that the Department of Justice, which was 
invited today and has declined to appear, will match your 
courage by explaining why those lies by FBI agents did not lead 
to criminal prosecution and accountability, and even days 
before this hearing, there had been no action, even 
administratively. Only with this hearing staring the FBI in the 
face did they fire one of those FBI agents.
    There's no question. Larry Nassar was a monster, a horrific 
predator. He was not the only monster in gymnastics. Gymnastics 
was not the only sport that had monsters. Our report focused 
not only on the monsters but the enablers, the institutions 
that failed you, the schools like Michigan State University, 
USA Gymnastics, the coaches, and trainers. They all looked the 
other way when you came to them. Then the FBI looked the other 
way in July 2015. They looked the other way and did nothing 
until late 2016, almost 18 months later. In that time period, 
dozens of young women lay before Larry Nassar, and he did with 
them what he wanted with trauma and terror that will last a 
lifetime.
    That pain was preventable. It was needless. The FBI's 
failure to act had real human consequences, and that will be 
forever a stain on the FBI's reputation, but even more so the 
cover-up that occurred afterward, because when those agents 
came under scrutiny, they actually manufactured statements. 
They lied about what survivors told them, the ultimate abuse of 
authority.
    There is nothing we can do to reverse the pain and grief 
that Larry Nassar caused you, but we can take action against 
the law enforcers who became enablers. Those institutions 
became enablers and so did the FBI.
    I call on the Department of Justice to come forward. They 
declined to do so today. Senator Feinstein and I specifically 
wrote them and urged them to be here. They owe the American 
people, and you, an explanation. I call on the Department of 
Justice to pursue action, not just administrative action but 
criminal prosecution where appropriate.
    This day is a hard one. Probably a little bit scary for you 
but also hard for all of us who have valued and respected the 
work of the FBI. The FBI has admitted, and I quote, ``The 
actions and inactions of the FBI employees described in the OIG 
report are inexcusable and a discredit to this organization,'' 
end quote. I agree, but it isn't just those two FBI employees 
who are to blame. This failure was systematic. This 
investigation was mishandled from coast to coast, from 
Indianapolis to Los Angeles, and it has to leave us wondering 
whether the FBI is capable of these kinds of sexual abuse 
investigation.
    I'll close where I began. We wouldn't be here but for the 
tremendous courage of so many survivors and their unwavering 
demand for change. There must be accountability for the 
individuals and institutions that enabled Larry Nassar. 
Anything else is unacceptable. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. We will now 
hear from Senator Blackburn. I believe she's going to appear on 
the screen. The last opening statement will be from Senator 
Moran. Senator Blackburn.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARSHA BLACKBURN,

           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF TENNESSEE

    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I so appreciate 
that we're having this hearing today and to have the 
opportunity to hear firsthand from some of these athletes. I 
appreciate the work and the effort that the committee has put 
into preparation for this.
    You know, over the past few years, we have seen scandal 
after scandal arise. They have come to light. They have exposed 
men who have abused their positions of power to take advantage 
of and harm women. These stories of abuse continue to be 
shocking every time that we hear them. And as a woman, we are 
inclined to listen more closely to believe these stories 
because we have seen this type behavior before.
    It is really hard to imagine a scandal, however, that comes 
as close to the depravity of Larry Nassar. The young athletes 
who are with us today trusted him, and he abused that trust, 
not once but repeatedly. In the years since, Larry Nassar's 
evil has been outshone by the courage of these young women who 
have given strength to so many to go after what happened in 
these crimes. Many of these brave young women should be 
saluted, every one of them saluted, for the positions that they 
have taken to stand up to tell their stories and to go after 
justice for themselves and for fellow athletes.
    As we have heard others of my colleagues say, it is 
shameful that the FBI was very slow to respond. It is shameful 
that the FBI, who was charged with investigating these horrific 
crimes and abuse, grossly failed to fulfill this duty. They sat 
idly by. They turned a blind eye. Mr. Chairman, I think one of 
the things that we all want to hear is why did they discount, 
why did they devalue what they were hearing from these 
athletes.
    From the time this arose to them until action was taken by 
the university, by local police, and there was a dismissal of 
Larry Nassar, there were 70 more victims. I will add those are 
the victims that we know about that have come to light. Every 
single person in authority who turned a blind eye to these 
young athletes' allegations is complicit in Nassar's crimes. 
Each one of them should be considered a predator.
    We cannot save future generations of women and girls from 
this kind of horrific abuse if we continue to settle for 
diplomatic resolutions. We owe it to these young women and to 
girls and women everywhere to figure out why their Government 
failed them, why these institutions did not listen to them. 
That process begins today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Blackburn. I'll ask as our 
final witness here, Senator Jerry Moran. Though he's not a 
Member of this Committee, he's been a real leader with Senator 
Blumenthal in oversight and legislation in response to this 
issue. Senator Moran?

                 STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY MORAN,

            A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF KANSAS

    Senator Moran. Chairman Durbin and Ranking Member Grassley, 
thank you for holding this hearing most importantly, and thank 
you also for inviting me to speak before the Committee today. I 
am grateful for your interest in this topic.
    I'd like to thank the survivors who will once again tell 
their stories. I express my respect for them today, McKayla 
Maroney, Maggie Nichols, Simone Biles, Aly Raisman, as well as 
all the survivors who are also--other survivors who are also 
joining us today, Jessica Howard, Jamie Dantzscher, Kaylee 
Lorincz.
    On January 25th, 2018, as Chairman of the Senate Commerce 
Subcommittee with jurisdiction over the health and safety of 
amateur athletes, Senator Blumenthal, my Ranking Member, and I 
opened an investigation into how USA Gymnastics, the U.S. 
Olympic and Paralympic Committee, and Michigan State University 
allowed a monster, a monster, to assault and abuse young women 
for decades.
    Early in our meeting with the survivors, one of them asked 
the question--and it has stuck with me since then, since the 
very beginning of our investigation three and a half years 
ago--and the question was, ``Why was there more than one of 
us?'' I do not know how to answer that question. I do not know 
a human being that I would not expect to report if someone told 
them they were being abused, to report to law enforcement, to 
officials. Yet time and time again, no one, no one accepted 
that responsibility for these young women.
    Why was there more than one? Most recently, we learned even 
the Federal Bureau of Investigation belongs on the list of 
those who failed in their responsibility, allowing for there to 
be more than one, more than dozens.
    Over 18 months, we held four Committee hearings. We 
conducted hundreds of interviews, and we reviewed over 70,000 
pages of documents. This bipartisan effort culminated last fall 
in the passage of the Empower Olympic and Paralympic and 
Amateur Athlete Act, which strengthen legal liability and 
accountability mechanisms over the Olympic movement in the 
United States and work to restore a culture that put athletes 
first.
    We know, we knew, we continue to know our job is not done. 
We will continue working with athletes and survivors now to 
make certain that that law is effective in meeting its goals. 
We are here today because of those athletes, those victims, 
those survivors because of their advocacy and their courage.
    Together we have demanded change and accountability from 
the institutions and individuals who covered up, enabled, and 
contributed to the abuse of young athletes. As I said earlier, 
unfortunately, that list now includes the Federal Bureau of 
Investigation.
    Senator Blumenthal was correct. It's not just about these 
survivors. It's not just about gymnastics. It's not even 
necessarily about the Olympics. This challenge is pervasive in 
our country, in our society, in our culture, and the Chairman, 
Chairman Durbin, indicated today an instance in his home State. 
All of us could find those, know those, and recognize that 
there is much more to be done.
    During the course of our investigation, we uncovered 
evidence that the FBI received credible information of the 
dangers Nassar posed to athletes, yet the FBI did not appear to 
take any additional actions. Furthermore, we learned that while 
the agents in Indianapolis claimed to have sent information 
they gathered to the appropriate offices in Michigan, it wasn't 
until evidence collected by local authorities that that 
evidence was turned over to the FBI in Lansing, Michigan, and 
that officials in Michigan then learned of Nassar's abuse.
    Subsequently, the OIG report in July confirmed this 
misconduct. The FBI--I'm sorry. The OIG report confirmed our 
suspicions. The FBI received explicit warnings about Larry 
Nassar's horrific abuse from a survivor years before the 
perpetrator was finally arrested. The FBI failed to protect our 
athletes. This inaction is appalling and, as we've all said, 
unacceptable.
    I remain committed to working with this Committee, the 
Judiciary Committee, my colleagues in the Senate, and the 
survivors here today to protect and empower all athletes. As 
the Ranking Member of the Appropriations Subcommittee that 
oversees the Department of Justice, I will work to be certain 
the FBI agents are held accountable for their actions, that it 
is never repeated.
    I look forward to working with you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. 
Ranking Member, in that regard. I know Senator Shaheen, the now 
Chairperson of our Appropriations Subcommittee, would join us 
in that effort.
    Our goal should remain the same, to hold accountable those 
for these crimes and to make certain future generations can 
train, can compete, and can succeed without fear of abuse.
    I appreciate Inspector Horowitz and his report, his 
thoroughness. I thank Senator Blumenthal for his partnership in 
our Subcommittee's three and a half and now continuing efforts. 
I particularly thank the Senate Judiciary Committee for 
allowing me to speak today.
    This is something we must not forget, and all of us need to 
be able to answer, ``Why was there more than one?'' Mr. 
Chairman, thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Moran, for your testimony and 
good work on this issue. We are now going to transition into 
the first panel, and I ask the staff to do their good work and 
if you can just hold for a minute. Go ahead.
    [Pause]
    We'll now turn to our panel of witnesses, and I invite them 
to come forward and be seated. Though they probably need no 
introduction--they're so well-known across this Nation--I do 
want to say a few words about some amazing young women who've 
come to speak to us today.
    Our first panel has four witnesses who are members and 
former members of USA Gymnastics. They are Olympians and 
national and international gymnastic champions, and each of 
them is also a survivor.
    In alphabetical order, our first witness, Simone Biles, one 
of the greatest gymnasts of all time. She is the first woman to 
capture five all-around World Championship titles and the most 
decorated gymnast, male or female, in World Championship's 
history, 25 medals overall. She is a seven-time Olympic 
medalist. Her extraordinary accomplishments have received 
widespread recognition including two Associated Press Female 
Athlete of the Year awards.
    McKayla Maroney was a member of the American women's 
gymnastics team dubbed the Fierce Five at the 2012 Summer 
Olympics. She won a gold medal in team competition and an 
individual silver medal in the vault. She was also a member of 
the American team at the 2011 World Championships, where she 
won gold medals in the team and vault competitions and the 2013 
World Championships where she defended her vault title. We 
frequently see her on TV jumping on a roof.
    Our next witness, Maggie Nichols, led the University of 
Oklahoma women's gymnastic team to team national championships 
in 2017 and 2019, also winning six individual titles. She 
represented the United States at the 2015 World Championships, 
where she won a gold medal in team competition and a bronze 
medal on floor exercise. She also holds several USA Gymnastics 
National Championship medals.
    Finally, Aly Raisman, one of the most accomplished American 
gymnasts of all time, two-time Olympian, team captain of the 
2012 and 2016 women gymnastics team, captured six Olympic and 
four World Championship medals including an individual silver 
medal in the 2016 Olympic all-around and gold medals in team 
competition in 2012 and 2016. A leader on and off the floor, 
Raisman uses her platform to advocate for abuse prevention and 
education. I thank you each for being here.
    Let me lay out the mechanics of the rest of this hearing. 
After we swear in the witnesses on the first panel, which is 
the tradition of this Committee, each witness will have five 
minutes to provide their opening statements. There will then be 
one round of questions, and this is extraordinary procedure. 
Each senator will have 1 minute of questioning. Please honor 
your allotted time to ask a question.
    Following that, we will switch to our second panel. We'll 
once again have 5-minute opening statements from the witnesses. 
After opening statements, we'll have another round of question. 
Each senator will have 5 minutes for a question.
    Could the witnesses please stand to be sworn in? If you'd 
raise your right hand.
    [Witnesses are sworn in.]
    Chair Durbin. Let the record show that the witnesses 
answered in the affirmative. Be seated. Ms. Biles, you're first 
if you'd like to give your opening statement.
    Ms. Biles. Today--oh. It's on. Sorry.
    Chair Durbin. If you'll pull the microphone close to you, 
it works much better.

           STATEMENT OF SIMONE BILES, HOUSTON, TEXAS

    Ms. Biles. Thank you for the opportunity to share my story 
with this Committee and for bringing light to the crisis of 
abuse in amateur sports. Your commitment to ensuring the safety 
of gymnasts and all amateur athletes is appreciated, important, 
and necessary to ensure nothing like this ever happens again.
    Please bear with me. To be perfectly honest, I can imagine 
no place that I would be less comfortable right now than 
sitting here in front of you sharing these comments.
    My name is Simone Biles, and I'm a gymnast who has trained 
at the highest levels of this sport. As an elite gymnast, I 
have had the honor to represent the United States of America in 
multiple international competitions, including World 
Championships and the Olympic Games. Over the course of my 
gymnastics career, I have won 25 World Championship medals and 
seven Olympic medals for Team U.S.A. That record means so much 
to me, and I am proud of my representation of this Nation 
through gymnastics.
    I am also a survivor of sexual abuse. I believe without a 
doubt that the circumstances that led to my abuse and allowed 
it to continue are directly the result of the fact that the 
organizations created by Congress to oversee and protect me as 
an athlete, USA Gymnastics and the United States Olympic and 
Paralympic Committee, failed to do their jobs.
    Nelson Mandela once said, ``There can be no keener 
revelation of a society's soul than the way in which it treats 
its children.'' It is the power of that statement that compels 
and empowers me to be here in front of you today. I don't want 
another young gymnast, Olympic athlete, or any individual to 
experience the horror that I and hundreds of others have 
endured before, during, and continuing to this day in the wake 
of the Larry Nassar abuse. To be clear--sorry.
    Chair Durbin. Take your time.
    Ms. Biles. To be clear, I blame Larry Nassar, and I also 
blame an entire system that enabled and perpetuated his abuse.
    USA Gymnastics and the United States Olympic and Paralympic 
Committee knew that I was abused by their official team doctor 
long before I was ever made aware of their knowledge. In May 
2015, Rhonda Faehn, the former head of USA Gymnastics women's 
program was told by my friend and teammate, Maggie Nichols, 
that she suspected I too was a victim. I didn't understand the 
magnitude of what all was happening until the Indianapolis Star 
published its article in the fall of 2016 entitled, Former USA 
Gymnastics Doctor Accused of Abuse. Yet while I was a member of 
the 2016 U.S. Olympic team, neither USAG, USOPC, nor the FBI 
ever contacted me or my parents. While others had been informed 
and investigations were ongoing, I had been left to wonder why 
I was not told until after the Rio Games.
    This is the largest case of sexual abuse in the history of 
American sport. Although there have been a fully independent 
investigation of the FBI's handling of the case, neither USAG 
nor USOPC have ever been made the subject of the same level of 
scrutiny. These are the entities entrusted with the protection 
of our sport and our athletes, and yet it feels like questions 
of responsibility and organizational failures remain 
unanswered. As you pursue the answers to those questions, I ask 
that your work be guided by the same question that Rachael 
Denhollander and many others have asked: ``How much is a little 
girl worth?''
    I sit before you today to raise my voice so that no little 
girl must endure what I, the athletes at this table, and the 
countless others who needlessly suffered under Nassar's guise 
of medical treatment, which we continue to endure today. We 
suffered and continue to suffer because no one at FBI, USAG, or 
the USOPC did what was necessary to protect us. We have been 
failed, and we deserve answers. Nassar is where he belongs, but 
those who enabled him deserve to be held accountable. If they 
are not, I am convinced that this will continue to happen to 
others across Olympic sports.
    In reviewing the OIG's report, it truly feels like the FBI 
turned a blind eye to us and went out of its way to help 
protect USAG and USOPC. A message needs to be sent. If you 
allow a predator to harm children, the consequences will be 
swift and severe. Enough is enough.
    I will close with one final thought. The scars of this 
horrific abuse continue to live with all of us. As the lone 
competitor in the recent Tokyo Games who was a survivor of this 
horror, I can assure you that the impacts of this man's abuse 
are not ever over or forgotten. The announcement in the spring 
of 2020 that the Tokyo Games were to be postponed for a year 
meant that I would be going to the gym, to training, to 
therapy, living daily among the reminders of this story for 
another 365 days.
    As I have stated in the past, one thing that helped me push 
each and every day was the goal of not allowing this crisis to 
be ignored. I worked incredibly hard to make sure that my 
presence could maintain a connection between the failures and 
the competition at Tokyo 2020. That has proven to be an 
exceptionally difficult burden for me to carry, particularly 
when traveled to--when required to travel to Tokyo without the 
support of any of my family.
    I am a strong individual, and I will persevere. I never 
should have been left alone to suffer the abuse of Larry 
Nassar. The only reason I did was because of the failures that 
lie at the heart of the abuse that you are now asked to 
investigate.
    Again, I appreciate the opportunity to share my thoughts 
with this Committee today. I want to sincerely thank each of 
you for joining the survivors of this abuse to do what we all 
can to prevent anything like this from ever happening again. 
Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Biles appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Ms. Biles. Ms. Maroney. You have 
to push the button on your microphone. Slight----
    Ms. Maroney. Are we on?
    Chair Durbin. There we----
    Ms. Maroney. All right.

                 STATEMENT OF MCKAYLA MARONEY,

                     LONG BEACH, CALIFORNIA

    Ms. Maroney. Good morning. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, 
Ranking Member Grassley, and Members of the Judiciary Committee 
for inviting me to speak today.
    As most of you are probably aware, I was molested by the US 
Gymnastics National Team and Olympic Team doctor Larry Nassar. 
In actuality, he turned out to be more of a pedophile than he 
was a doctor.
    What I'm trying to bring to your attention today is 
something incredibly disturbing and illegal. After telling my 
entire story of abuse to the FBI in the summer of 2015, not 
only did the FBI not report my abuse but, when they eventually 
documented my report 17 months later, they made entirely false 
claims about what I said. After reading the Office of Inspector 
General's OIG report, I was shocked and deeply disappointed at 
this narrative they chose to fabricate. They chose to lie about 
what I said and protect a serial child molester rather than 
protect not only me but countless others.
    My story is one in which Special Agent in Charge Jay 
Abbott, and his subordinates did not want you to hear, and it's 
time that I tell you. In the summer of 2015, like I said, I was 
scheduled to speak to the FBI about my abuse with Larry Nassar 
over the phone. I was too sick to go meet with anyone in person 
and talking about this abuse would give me PTSD for days. I 
chose to speak about it to try and make a difference and 
protect others.
    I remember sitting on my bedroom floor for nearly three 
hours as I told them what happened to me. I hadn't even told my 
own mother about these facts. I thought, as uncomfortable and 
as hard as it was to tell my story, I was going to make a 
difference and, hopefully, protecting others from the same 
abuse.
    I answered all of their questions honestly and clearly, and 
I disclosed all of my molestations I had endured by Nassar to 
them in extreme detail. They told me to start from the 
beginning. I told them about the sport of gymnastics, how you 
make the national team, and how I came to meet Larry Nassar 
when I was 13 at a Texas camp. I told them that the first thing 
Larry Nassar ever said to me was to change into shorts with no 
underwear because that would make it easier for him to work on 
me. Within minutes, he had his fingers in my vagina.
    The FBI then immediately asked, ``Did he insert his fingers 
into your rectum?'' I said, ``No, he never did.'' They asked if 
he used gloves. I said, ``No, he never did.'' They asked if 
this treatment ever helped me. I said, ``No, it never did. This 
treatment was 100 percent abuse, and never gave me any 
relief.''
    I then told the FBI about Tokyo, the day he gave me a 
sleeping pill for the plane ride to then work on me later that 
night. That evening, I was naked, completely alone, with him on 
top of me molesting me for hours. I told them I thought I was 
going to die that night because there was no way that he would 
let me go. But he did. I told them I walked the halls of Tokyo 
hotel at 2 a.m. at only 15 years old. I began crying at the 
memory over the phone, and there was just dead silence.
    I was so shocked at the agent's silence and disregard for 
my trauma. After that minute of silence, he asked, ``Is that 
all?'' Those words in itself was one of the worst moments of 
this entire process for me. To have my abuse be minimized and 
disregarded by the people who were supposed to protect me, just 
to feel like my abuse was not enough. The truth is, my abuse 
was enough, and they wanted to cover it up.
    USA Gymnastics, in concert with the FBI and the Olympic 
Committee, were working together to conceal that Larry Nassar 
was a predator. I then proceeded to tell them about London and 
how he'd sign me up last on his sheet so he could molest me for 
hours, twice a day. I told him--I told them how he molested me 
right before I won my team gold medal, how he gave me presents, 
bought me caramel macchiatos and bread when I was hungry. I 
even sent them screenshots of Nassar's last text to me, which 
was, ``McKayla, I love how you see the world with rose-colored 
glasses. I hope you continue to do so.''
    This was very clear cookie-cutter pedophilia and abuse. 
This is important because I told the FBI all of this, and they 
chose to falsify my report and to not only minimize my abuse 
but silence me yet again. I thought given the severity of this 
situation that they would act quickly for the sake of 
protecting other girls. Instead, it took them 14 months to 
report anything when Larry Nassar, in my opinion, should have 
been in jail that day.
    The FBI, USOC, and USAG sat idly by as dozens of girls and 
women continued to be molested by Larry Nassar. According to 
the OIG report, about 14 months after I disclosed my abuse to 
the FBI, nearly a year and a half later, the FBI agent who 
interviewed me in 2015 decided to write down my statement, a 
statement that the OIG report determined to be materially 
false.
    Let's be honest. By not taking immediate action from my 
report, they allowed a child molester to go free for more than 
a year. This inaction directly allowed Nassar's abuse to 
continue. What is the point of reporting abuse if our own FBI 
agents are going to take it upon themselves to bury that report 
in a drawer? They had legal, legitimate evidence of child abuse 
and did nothing. If they're not going to protect me, I want to 
know who are they trying to protect.
    What's even more upsetting to me is that we know that these 
FBI agents have committed an obvious crime. They falsified my 
statement, and that is illegal in itself. Yet no recourse has 
been taken against them. The Department of Justice refused to 
prosecute these individuals. Why? Deputy Attorney General Lisa 
Monaco couldn't even bring herself to be here today. It is the 
Department of Justice's job to hold them accountable.
    I am tired of waiting for people to do the right thing 
because my abuse was enough, and we deserve justice. These 
individuals clearly violated policies and were negligent in 
executing their duties. In doing so, more girls were abused by 
Larry Nassar for over a year. To not indict these agents is a 
disservice to me and my teammates. It is a disservice to the 
system which was built to protect all of us from abuse. It was 
a disservice to every victim who suffered needlessly at the 
hands of Larry Nassar after I spoke up. Why are public servants 
whose job is to protect getting away with this? This is not 
justice. Enough is enough.
    Today, I ask you all to hear my voice. I ask you please do 
all that is in your power to ensure that these individuals are 
held responsible and accountable for ignoring my initial 
report, for lying about my initial report, and for covering up 
for a child molester.
    In closing, I would like to express my deep gratitude to 
the United States Senate, a very powerful institution that, 
from the very beginning, has fought for us rather than against 
us. Thank you, and I welcome any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Maroney appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Ms. Maroney. Ms. Nichols.

                  STATEMENT OF MAGGIE NICHOLS,

                    LITTLE CANADA, MINNESOTA

    Ms. Nichols. Chair Durbin, Ranking Member Grassley, and 
distinguished Members of the Judiciary Committee, thank you for 
inviting me to speak to you today. I want to personally thank 
you for your commitments to prioritizing athlete safety and 
holding accountable those responsible for athlete safety.
    I was named as Gymnast Two in the Office of Inspector 
General's report and previously identified as Athlete A by USA 
Gymnastics. I want everyone to know that this did not happen to 
Gymnast Two or to Athlete A. It happened to me, Maggie Nichols.
    I first started gymnastics when I was three. Since I was a 
child, I always had the dream of competing for my country in 
the World Championships and Olympic Games. I was an elite level 
gymnast by the age of 13. By the time I was 14, I made the 
national team. I traveled internationally for four years, 
attending competitions and, in 2015 at the World Championships 
representing our country, where I won a gold medal. My Olympic 
dreams ended in the summer of 2015, when my coach and I 
reported Larry Nassar's abuse to USAG leadership. I went on to 
compete at the University of Oklahoma, where I was named First 
Team All-American in the all-around and all four events and was 
an eight-time national champion.
    I reported my abuse to USA Gymnastics over six years ago, 
and still my family and I received few answers, and have even 
more questions about how this was allowed to occur, and why 
dozens of other little girls and women at Michigan State had to 
be abused after I reported. In sacrificing my childhood for the 
chance to compete for the United States, I am haunted by the 
fact that even after I reported my abuse, so many women and 
girls had to suffer at the hands of Larry Nassar. USA 
Gymnastics and the United States Olympic and Paralympic 
Committee and the FBI have all betrayed me and those who were 
abused by Larry Nassar after I reported.
    The cover-up of my abuse and the FBI's failure to interview 
me for more than a year after my complaint are well documented 
in the OIG report. After I reported my abuse to USA Gymnastics, 
my family and I were told by their former president, Steve 
Penny, to keep quiet and not say anything that could hurt the 
FBI investigation. We now know there was no real FBI 
investigation occurring. While my complaints with the FBI, 
Larry Nassar continued to abuse women and girls. During this 
time, the FBI issued no search warrants and made no arrests. 
From the day I reported my molestation by Nassar, I was treated 
differently by USAG.
    Not only did the FBI fail to conduct a thorough 
investigation, but they also knew that USAG and the USOPC 
created a false narrative where Larry Nassar was allowed to 
retire with his reputation intact and return to Michigan State 
University, thus allowing dozens of little girls to be 
molested.
    As the Inspector General's report details during this time 
period, FBI agents did not properly document evidence, failed 
to report to proper authorities, and the special agent in 
charge was seeking to become the new director of security for 
the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee, a job 
opportunity raised by Steve Penny.
    Afterwards, FBI agents in charge of the investigation lied 
to OIG investigators about what had happened. This conduct by 
these FBI agents, including the special agent in charge, who 
are held in high regard and expected to protect the public, is 
unacceptable, disgusting, and shameful.
    This Committee produced a report in 2019 titled ``The 
Courage of Survivors: A Call to Action.'' It found that the 
U.S. Olympic Committee and USAG and the national governing body 
designated by USOC to administer amateur gymnastics failed to 
adequately respond to credible allegations against Nassar.
    Similarly, the OIG report found that senior FBI officials 
lied to the Inspector General, engaged in serious conflicts of 
interest, and tried to cover up one of the biggest child sexual 
abuse scandals in the history of amateur sports. Both reports 
uncovered serious and possibly criminal misconduct by those at 
the highest level of the Olympic Committee, our sport, and the 
FBI. Despite these findings of serious and criminal misconduct 
throughout the FBI, USAG, and USOPC, no accountability has 
occurred.
    An important question remains, perhaps the most important 
question. Why? Why would the FBI agents lie to OIG 
investigators? Why would the FBI not properly document evidence 
that was received? Why would the FBI agent be interested in the 
USAG presidency?
    These questions remain unanswered, and the survivors of 
Larry Nassar have a right to know why their well-being was 
placed into jeopardy by these individuals who chose not to do 
their jobs.
    Today, no one from the FBI, the USOPC, or USAG has faced 
Federal charges other than Larry Nassar. For many hundreds of 
survivors of Larry Nassar, this hearing is one of our last 
opportunities to get justice. We ask that you do what is in 
your power to ensure those that engaged in wrongdoing are held 
accountable under the law.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Nichols appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you. Ms. Nichols. Ms. Raisman.

                   STATEMENT OF ALY RAISMAN,

                     BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS

    Ms. Raisman. I want to begin by thanking the Judiciary 
Committee, including Chairman Durbin and Ranking Member 
Grassley, for their commitment to seeking the truth for the 
hundreds, if not thousands, who were systematically abused by 
Larry Nassar and for this Committee's diligence to demand 
accountability regarding Federal law enforcement's misconduct.
    I also want to express my gratitude to the other brave 
survivors here today, my friends and my teammates, for sharing 
their stories and continuing to press for justice and reform. 
Over the past few years, it has become painfully clear how a 
survivor's healing is affected by the handling of their abuse. 
It disgusts me that we are still fighting for the most basic 
answers and accountability over six years later.
    In 2015, it was known that at least six national team 
athletes had been abused by Nassar. There was even one of the 
athletes that was abused on film. Given our abuser's unfettered 
access to children, stopping him should have been a priority.
    Instead, the following occurred: The FBI failed to 
interview pertinent parties in a timely manner. It took over 14 
months for the FBI to contact me, despite my many requests to 
be interviewed by them. Their records established that Steve 
Penny, FBI agent Jay Abbott, and their subordinates worked to 
conceal Nassar's crimes. Steve Penny arranged with the FBI to 
conduct my interview at the Olympic Training Center, where I 
was under the control and observation of USA Gymnastics and the 
United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee.
    The day of my interview, Steve Penny flew to the Olympic 
Training Center, and he made sure I was aware he was there. I 
felt pressured by the FBI to consent to Nassar's plea deal. The 
agent diminished the significance of my abuse and made me feel 
my criminal case wasn't worth pursuing. Special agent in charge 
of investigating Nassar met Steve Penny for beers to discuss 
job opportunities in the Olympic movement. Another FBI agent 
worked with Steve Penny to determine jurisdiction without 
interviewing the survivors.
    I watched multiple high-ranking officials at USAG, USOPC, 
and FBI resign or retire without explanation of how they may 
have contributed to the problem, some of whom were publicly 
thanked for their serviced and rewarded with severance or bonus 
money.
    My reports of abuse were not only buried by USAG, USOPC, 
but they were also mishandled by Federal law enforcement 
officers who failed to follow their most basic duties. The FBI 
and others within both USAG and USOPC knew that Nassar molested 
children and did nothing to restrict his access. Steve Penny 
and any USAG employee could have walked a few steps to file a 
report with the Indiana Child Protective Services since they 
shared the same building.
    Instead, they quietly allowed Nassar to slip out the side 
door, knowingly allowing him to continue his work at MSU, 
Sparrow Hospital, a USAG club, and even run for school board. 
Nassar found more than 100 new victims to molest. It was like 
serving innocent children up to a pedophile on a silver 
platter.
    Why did none of these organizations warn anyone? USAG and 
USOPC have a long history of enabling abuse by turning a blind 
eye. Both organizations knew of Nassar's abuse long before it 
became public, although you wouldn't know that by reading their 
press releases, which would have you and their corporate 
sponsors believe that athlete safety comes first.
    We have called for a fully independent factual 
investigation for years now because I and these women who sit 
before you know firsthand these organizations and their public 
statements are not to be trusted. They claim they want 
accountability but then seek to restrict which staff can be 
interviewed, which documents can be examined, and claim 
attorney-client privilege over and over again. The so-called 
investigations these organizations orchestrated were not 
designed to provide the answers we so critically need.
    Why are we left to guess why USAG and USOPC deliberately 
ignored reported abuse? Was it to protect the value of the 
sponsorships? The LA28 bid? Their own jobs? To avoid criminal 
liability?
    Perhaps. Why must we speculate when the facts are 
obtainable and the stakes are so high? Why would duly sworn 
Federal law enforcement officers ignore reports of abuse by a 
doctor across State lines and country borders? For a future job 
opportunity? Or were there additional incentives and pressures? 
Why must we speculate when the facts are obtainable and the 
stakes are so high?
    Just--just as it is naive to assume the problem only rests 
with Nassar, it is unrealistic to think we can grasp the full 
extent of culpability without understanding how and why USAG 
and USOPC chose to ignore abuse for decades and why the 
interplay among these three organizations led the FBI to 
willingly disregard our reports of abuse. Without knowing who 
knew what when, we cannot identify all enablers or determine 
whether they are still in positions of power. We just can't fix 
a problem we don't understand, and we can't understand the 
problem unless, and until, we have all of the facts.
    If we don't do all we can to get these facts, the problems 
we are here to address will persist, and we are deluding 
ourselves if we think other children can be spared the 
institutionalized tolerance and normalization of abuse that I 
and so many others had to endure.
    I thank you for your time, your commitment, and your 
genuine concern for those survivors who relied on the FBI to do 
the right thing. I welcome any questions and comments, and I 
will answer them to the best of my ability. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Raisman appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Ms. Raisman.
    I've been in a lot of Committee hearings. I can't remember 
compelling testimony like we've heard this morning ever before 
because you had the courage to come up and tell the world what 
happened to you. It is heartbreaking to think what you have 
been through. I thank you for being here. We have a job to do, 
and we know it. It begins with this hearing, the accountability 
of the FBI and the Department of Justice, and all of law 
enforcement, when it comes to abuse cases such as those that 
you have endured personally.
    There is an historic element here in that your audience 
includes young people like yourself who are victims and 
survivors themselves. I have one minute in question and my 
question basically to the panel anyone who cares to respond. 
What would you say to other young athletes who may be suffering 
in silence or wrestling with the decision about whether to 
speak out? Ms. Raisman.
    Ms. Raisman. Yes. The first thing that I would want to say 
to anybody that's watching this that's suffering in silence, or 
has been through something really traumatic, is that I support 
them, I believe them, and just be patient with yourself, be 
kind to yourself, know that I'm struggling too.
    I'm still navigating how to heal from this. Healing is a 
roller coaster. There are some days I feel better. Some days I 
feel like I'm taking a bunch of steps backward, and that's 
okay. We're all human. We're all doing the best that we can.
    I would encourage whoever is out there that's listening to 
tell someone whenever they feel comfortable, and it's so 
important to have a good support system and a community around 
you. If you're someone out there that doesn't have a good 
support system, that's okay. Sometimes it can take some time to 
find a good support system. I encourage you to not give up 
until you find that support that you deserve. Just remember 
that I believe you, I support you, you are not alone, and I 
encourage you to ask for help.
    Chair Durbin. Anyone else on the panel?
    Ms. Maroney. Yes. I would just want to say that they need 
to know that their abuse is enough. I think for so long all of 
us questioned, just because somebody else wasn't fully 
validating us, that we doubted what happened to us. That is 
always going to make the healing process take longer.
    I think the second that I gave that to myself is when I 
really began to heal and when I really began to get my voice 
back. That took a long time. I think to reach out to other 
survivors and to speak to them and hear their stories is what 
continues to help me heal. Hearing all these girls speak is 
really what continues to make me want to be here today and help 
others.
    Chair Durbin. And you are.
    Ms. Maroney. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Grassley.
    Senator Grassley. Before I ask my first question, in regard 
to something Ms. Raisman raised, we have not forget--forgotten 
why these people haven't been prosecuted. I want to put in the 
record a letter that I wrote the Attorney General on July 16th 
to request that the Justice Department revisit its decision not 
to prosecute the FBI employees who failed you--all of you and a 
lot of you that aren't here as well.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Without objection.
    Senator Grassley. Okay. Thank you very much.
    First of all, it's not enough just to commend you for your 
bravery of speaking out. By your speaking out, you're helping 
not only young women but wherever there might be the abuse that 
you talk about. It's very difficult--I'm sure--in this public 
setting for you to speak that. We felt that from you speaking 
out about it. It's got to be a hard job, but thank you for 
coming forward.
    I'm going to asking questions of any one of you, or all of 
you. You decide how you want to respond this. I hope at least 
one person would speak up. What can you tell Congress and the 
Government witnesses testifying here today about the additional 
steps, if any, that we should take to ensure that we better 
protect child athletes?
    We heard from all of you about the agents and the FBI not 
doing its job or even lying to us. You heard about a bill that 
I am proposing. Beyond those things, do you have anything you'd 
like to add that Congress should hear from you to protect child 
athletes?
    Ms. Raisman. I think it's really important to look at the 
connection between the FBI, USA Gymnastics, and the United 
States Olympic and Paralympic Committee. We cannot believe that 
there's a safer future for children unless we fully understand 
every single thing that happened. USA Gymnastics does say that 
they've done investigations, but those were not completely 
independent. The scope of the investigation matters. Nobody 
should be off limits. Nothing should be off limits. It should 
go back decades, and that has not been done. It's been 
something that we've been asking for for years and years.
    I personally would like to see all three organizations 
completely investigated, and the scope of it matters because, 
until we know all the facts, it's just guesswork. I hope you 
guys feel the same way about--as I do, that if we're thinking 
about children going into gymnastics or sports, I don't want to 
have--be guessing that they're going to be okay. I want to know 
with 100 percent certainty that somebody that looked the other 
way for us isn't still in a position of power.
    I think the investigation is crucial. Until that, I don't 
have any faith that things will get better in the sport.
    Senator Grassley. Okay. If no one else wants to go beyond 
that, I'll go to my last question. I hope this isn't something 
so sensitive you don't feel you can talk about it. Do you have 
any thoughts or inputs to share about SafeSport, the national 
nonprofit entity that has been tasked by Congress with handling 
allegations from amateur athletes?
    Ms. Raisman. Yes. I personally think SafeSport is--I'm 
trying to be respectful here. I don't like SafeSport. I hear 
from many survivors that they report their abuse, and it's like 
playing hot potato where someone else kicks it over to somebody 
else. They don't hear back for a really long time. I think a 
really big issue is that SafeSport is funded by USA Gymnastics 
or the United States Olympic Committee. I'm not sure exactly 
what the correct terminology is.
    If you're SafeSport, and you are funded by the organization 
you're investigating, it's not--it's--they're likely not going 
to do the right thing. I think that it needs to be completely 
separate, and I personally think SafeSport needs a lot of work. 
I know from many survivors and--you know, my mom has personally 
reported things to SafeSport. It's be--we followed up so many 
times. They say, ``We can't help you,'' or they either ignore 
us or pass it on to somebody else. The person they pass it on 
to says--they kick it back to them. It's just a complete mess, 
and the priority doesn't seem to be safety and well-being of 
athletes. It seems to be protecting USA Gymnastics and doing 
everything to keep the PR good.
    Ms. Maroney. Yes. I agree. Nobody really wants to be held 
accountable, and nobody really knows who to hold accountable. I 
think in order to help, there needs to be a specific person who 
is in charge of protecting these athletes, and it falls on them 
when they're not. Instead of it being passed around and 
everyone just being like, ``Oh, we don't know what happened. 
Whose job was that,'' there needs to be a specific job for 
that.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you. I now call on Senator Leahy and 
remind my colleagues we're trying to make this question period 
concise. Please do your best.
    Senator Leahy. I want to thank you all for having the 
courage to come here today.
    I can only imagine how painful it is to relive these 
experiences. I think that the resilience, the perseverance 
you're showing the world today is incredibly admirable. I hope 
that young survivors who see this, who feel powerless to tell 
their stories, will feel, yes, here is an example they should 
tell it. I think it has to be far more than just telling the 
stories.
    I mean, obviously, like Senator Durbin, I've been on this 
Committee for a long time. I cannot think of anything so 
moving. I--we're going to hear Senators and others talk about 
accountability and justice today. What does genuine 
accountability look like to you? When do you feel justice will 
be done for the injustices you suffered?
    That really should be the question we have today. I'd like 
to hear from all of you on that. When do you feel justice will 
be done, and what does genuine accountability look like?
    Ms. Maroney. You want to try that one?
    Ms. Raisman. Yes. Sure. First going back to--I probably 
sound like a broken record. I'm going to try. Hopefully, today 
will be the one that, this time I say it, it actually happens.
    For me, accountability looks like--first of all, I think 
that, obviously, this should have never happened. One time 
being abused is too many. One child being abused is too many. I 
think a complete and full independent investigation of the FBI, 
USA Gymnastics, and the United States Olympic and Paralympic 
Committee.
    Then from there, then we will know the answers of who 
should be held accountable. I also think that there needs to 
be--when we think about a new USA Gymnastics or a new United 
States Olympic and Paralympic Committee, survivors need to be 
in the room. They need to be able to be--they need to feel--we 
need to feel like we are not adversaries to USA Gymnastics. We 
need to feel like our voices matter, that they care, that they 
want to actually be a part of the change that we so desperately 
want.
    I think that it's--I'm not trying to speak for them, but I 
imagine we all feel that it's just--it is crazy for me to try 
to wrap my head around. All we are asking for is that when a 
child goes into gymnastics or goes to school or does anything 
that they can be spared abuse. The fact that we've been treated 
like adversaries by so many organizations and our abuse has 
been diminished, we've been victim shamed online over and over 
again, we've been gaslit, we've been made to feel that we don't 
matter and--by these organizations.
    I never want another child to feel that way again. McKayla 
Maroney mentioned this. Often survivors already question 
themselves. They distrust how they feel. That is something that 
I went through, and especially because the FBI made me feel 
like my abuse didn't count and it wasn't a big deal. I remember 
sitting there with the FBI agent and him trying to convince me 
that it wasn't that bad.
    It's taken me years of therapy to realize that my abuse was 
bad, that it does matter. I think it's really important to also 
have education and prevention in the sport as well. I don't see 
these organizations doing enough to have--every single staff 
member, every single athlete, every single parent, guardian, 
every single person that walks into a gym--I believe should be 
educated to prevent and recognize emotional, physical, sexual, 
mental abuse, everything in between, because if we don't have 
an investigation and we don't have education and prevention, 
then this problem and this nightmare is going to keep happening 
over and over again.
    Senator Leahy. Anybody else care to--or should I assume 
that you all agree with that, right?
    Ms. Nichols. Yes.
    Senator Leahy. So do I. Thank you very, very much.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Leahy. Senator Cornyn.
    Ms. Biles. Oh.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to say----
    Ms. Biles. Oh, okay. Sorry.
    Senator Cornyn [continuing]. That we thank----
    Ms. Biles. Just one more to add. I--we also want to see 
them----
    Senator Cornyn. Excuse me.
    Ms. Biles [continuing]. At least be federally prosecuted to 
the fullest extent because they need to be held accountable.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you.
    Senator Leahy. As a former prosecutor, I agree with that. 
Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Cornyn.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I too want to want 
to thank these four survivors who are joining us today. I want 
to tell you how much I respect and admire your courage and for 
sounding the alarm on a system that has abused and neglected 
you but what's--was supposed to protect you.
    Your stories are difficult for you to tell. I know. It's 
taken--but it's extraordinarily important for us to hear it, as 
hard as it is for you and for us to hear because I believe that 
your courage will inspire a generation of women to speak out 
against those who have abused them.
    I want you to know--we all want you to know we're very 
proud of your courage and the example that you set for other 
young women. I sincerely hope that your courage in speaking out 
will be a step toward righting the wrongs that have led to 
these injustices, so we can ensure that these mistakes will 
never, ever be repeated.
    Thank you for shining a light on this issue and for 
advocating for victims across the country. As you know, you are 
not alone because too often those allegations are downplayed, 
slow-walked, or ignored. Now, our job is to make sure that your 
sacrifices, your trauma, and your nightmare have not been in 
vain. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Cornyn. Senator Feinstein.
    Senator Feinstein. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    For me, this was a deja vu. I listened to these young 
women. I saw their courage. I saw their willingness to step 
forward, and I'm hopeful that we'll be able to take some 
action. I would like to present a letter that's sent to the 
chief executive officer of the U.S. Center for SafeSport, which 
has eight specific things. This is on behalf of Senator Murray 
and myself. So if I may put that in.
    Chair Durbin. Without objection.
    Senator Feinstein. I really hope that no one ever goes 
through the horrors that you have experienced. I hope that 
when, and I believe we will take action, that this is enough 
for you to put this behind you in your life, and that you could 
lead a life that is just as full and happy as is possible, and 
that we do our job and see that we prevent this from ever 
happening again. I just want to thank you so much. I've had the 
occasion to sit down with you, at least two of you, around my 
conference table and see the tears. Those days are now behind, 
and I'm convinced that this Senate will act, and I thank you so 
much because you have played a big role, if and when we do, in 
making it happen. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Feinstein. Senator Cruz.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I want to thank each of you for being here. Being here this 
morning was not easy. Each of you inspire millions across the 
globe. Millions look to your athletic achievements. You have 
all stood on the biggest stages in the world and done 
extraordinary things, things that take your breath away, that--
that amaze children and adults. You were able to do that 
through tens of thousands of hours of incredible hard work. Yet 
that work pales compared to the courage it took to come here 
today and to tell your story publicly.
    You could have stayed silent. You could have avoided the 
scrutiny, the pain, and I will say watching you testify this 
morning you could see the pain in each of you sharing that 
story. That courage that you've demonstrated by going public, 
by reporting this abuse, by shining a light, that courage 
matters. It's making a difference in the lives of others.
    The system failed you. What happened to you was grotesque. 
It was criminal. It was abusive. It was evil. I'm the father of 
two little girls who are both athletes, not at the level of 
each of you. What you experienced is every parent's nightmare: 
that when your child--when you entrust your child to coaches, 
or doctors, or trainers, you're trusting that your kids will be 
taken care of, not that they will be abused and targeted.
    I want to thank you. I want to thank you for calling out 
the abuse, calling out the system that failed you. That system 
needs to change. That system needs to be held accountable so 
that this doesn't happen again. I want to thank you for the 
kids that won't face abuse because of your courage. Each of 
you, Aly, Maggie, McKayla, Simone--and I'll say, Simone you're 
a Texan and a Houstonian. The entire State of Texas is 
immensely proud of you, and proud of all of you.
    I got to say right now at home there's a little girl or a 
little boy who's watching us who may be facing their own 
personal hell, may be facing abuse, whether in sports and some 
other context, a monster who is doing unspeakable things to 
them. That little girl and that little boy, I hope, sees your 
courage and realizes that she can come forward and say 
something too, that he can call out the person who's hurting 
them. Thank you for your courage. It makes an enormous 
difference.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Cruz. Senator Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thanks, Chairman Durbin. I want to 
first thank our colleague Senator Blumenthal, who has been so 
persistent in this for so long, and thank you and Ranking 
Member Senator Grassley for holding this hearing. I want to 
compliment all of our witnesses for the stunning clarity and 
grace of your testimony here.
    Your quest for accountability is 100 percent justified. 
Thank you for pursuing it. We will endeavor to help you in that 
pursuit. It is astonishing and disturbing how many adults let 
you down and failed at one of the most basic responsibilities 
of adulthood, which is to look out for children, take care of 
them, behave properly, and hear and trust them.
    I guess, on behalf of adults everywhere, we owe you an 
apology. What you've done today is impressive, and it will make 
a difference. I'm grateful to you for stepping up the way you 
have. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Whitehouse. Senator Hawley is 
on via Webex, and you'll see him on the screen momentarily, I 
hope. Senator Hawley. Perhaps Senator Cotton is on virtually. 
We're going to search the ether for--Senator Cotton. Well, in 
their absence, Senator Klobuchar.
    Senator Klobuchar. Excellent. Thank you very much all of 
you. Like my colleagues, I want to express my gratitude to you. 
As a fellow Minnesotan, I am particularly grateful to you, 
Maggie, for sharing your story with the Committee today.
    All of you and the other women and girls who make up the 
gymnastics community continue to inspire us. I was one of the 
geeks that was up at about 4 a.m. watching this live, watching 
the Olympics live this time. To think when you fall off the 
balance beams and you get back on or you grab those bars when 
you still have an injury or you perform some floor exercise 
that no one knows was possible, to all of us that are watching, 
to us, that is the courage, something we could never imagine 
doing.
    The real courage is what you're doing today. Your bravery 
is on full display. As a former prosecutor like some of my 
colleagues, I know firsthand--I've seen it--how hard it is to 
testify before a room of strangers.
    This time, you're doing it in front of the U.S. Senate. 
What you're doing is, of course, part of your own healing but 
it is also part of healing for kids you're never going to meet, 
little girls and boys that maybe are aware of your fame and 
what you've done. They may not ever be aware of what you are 
doing today.
    I think you have heard it from so many of my colleagues 
that have been leading on these bills, and I've been proud to 
cosponsor them. More must be done. More oversight, more 
accountability. By coming forward today, you are going to make 
that difference, so we can make sure on your behalf that this 
never happens again.
    Thank you, Simone, McKayla, Maggie, and Aly for 
representing the women and girls of USA Gymnastics so well on 
the world's stage, but most importantly, so well today. Thank 
you.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Klobuchar. We're going to try 
one more time with Senator Cotton. Are you with us?
    Senator Cotton. Yes, I'm here, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Please proceed.
    Senator Cotton. Thank you. I want to also take a moment to 
thank each of the witnesses who are appearing this morning. The 
four of you have done remarkable things in your lives. You've 
been patriotic competitors, dedicated athletes, good role 
models, and you've represented the United States of America 
expertly on the global stage, but perhaps even more impressive 
is the courage that each of you has displayed in coming forward 
about the abuse you faced.
    In doing so, you weren't just taking on one terrible abuser 
but potentially facing down an entire system. This isn't the 
first time that we've had hearings on this issue. In 2017 and 
2018, for example, the Senate heard from others who had faced 
similar abuse, including Jordyn Wieber, who was a teammate of 
several of you and is now the head coach of University of 
Arkansas gymnastics, of whom we're also extremely proud.
    Unfortunately, for too long, the system failed the very 
women that it was supposed to protect. The report by Inspector 
General Horowitz makes it clear that there are individuals 
whose inaction, incompetence, and worse enabled that system and 
who should be held accountable. I look forward to hearing from 
Director Wray and the Inspector General about how that will be 
remedied. I once again thank each of you for coming before the 
Committee and sharing your stories today.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Cotton. Senator Coons.
    Senator Coons. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Grassley. Thank you for holding this hearing.
    Each of you are adults now. You are grown women. You've 
demonstrated your strength, your determination, your 
persistence in testifying here today. As we all know, in 
terrible detail, you were victimized as young girls. We have 
failed you. United States Olympic Committee, USA Gymnastics, 
those in Federal law enforcement who were responsible for 
taking your horrible testimony and translating it into prompt 
and decisive action to protect other children and to secure 
justice for you.
    Thank you for the courage it takes to testify and to insist 
on justice. Thank you to Senator Blumenthal and Senator Moran 
for your persistent and effective engagement in this. We will 
next turn to hearing the Director of the FBI and the Inspector 
General about what has been found by the Inspector General and 
what action will be taken next.
    I just want to briefly share with you one of the most 
concerning parts of what you shared with us today was about 
your initial interviews with the FBI: where it was conducted, 
how it was conducted, that you were left alone as a teenage 
girl to have an interview by phone with an FBI agent, who 
somehow suggested what you were testifying to wasn't horrific, 
or tried to persuade you that it wasn't that bad, or under a 
circumstance had made it clear to you that the person 
responsible for USA Gymnastics might be present and might have 
somehow compromised that interview. The whole way in which 
your--all of your interviews were conducted was just awful.
    Sadly, that's been the experience for millions of victims 
of child sexual abuse over decades in the United States. The 
positive thing I just wanted to share with you today is that 
for years now, there has been a national network of child 
advocacy centers--there's one in each county in my state--which 
brings together trauma-informed child welfare professionals and 
law enforcement to make sure that victims are only interviewed 
once, that they're interviewed in appropriate settings, that 
they're interviewed in a way that respects, and recognizes the 
trauma and the abuse they've suffered, and that ensures that 
your horrible experiences in terms of those initial interviews 
and it's been compounded by your having to testify and speak 
again and again. We are working on that system.
    Senator Blunt and I will soon reintroduce a bill that will 
reauthorize this and double the funding for it. There's now a 
national network of 880 of these child advocacy centers all 
over the country. I just wanted to share with you and with any 
victim of abuse or the families who know about their child's 
abuse who might be watching that what happened to you should 
not and need not happen again. There are professional trauma-
informed child welfare-centered opportunities around the 
country to seek justice.
    Ms. Maroney, I can see what I've just said has particularly 
impacted you. Thank you all four of you for your courage, your 
persistence, and your demands for justice. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Coons. I believe Senator 
Blumenthal will be next.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. My thanks again. 
You are really heroes and stars and role models for many young 
men and women around the country. Your courage obviously is 
impressive to all of us on this Committee but so is your grace 
and daring, your athleticism, your grace and daring as people, 
and your determination not to be defined by the abuse that you 
suffered and to seek help, which should be also a model to 
others.
    A number of you have made reference to the therapy that you 
have sought, which also takes courage. You have been involved 
in a sport that often involves injuries, physical injuries, and 
the abuse you suffered involves emotional injuries that you're 
seeking to treat as you would any physical injury.
    I would like to ask you. I know at least one of the 
athletes in the room was abused after July 2015. Let me just 
ask each of you--you can answer yes or no--whether you know of 
athletes that were abused by Larry Nassar after July 2015, 
during the 18-month period when the FBI did nothing. You can 
just say yes, you do. If you want to tell me how many if you 
know. If not, just yes or no. Ms. Biles.
    Ms. Biles. Yes.
    Ms. Maroney. Kaylee Lorincz.
    Ms. Biles. You can go ahead.
    Ms. Maroney. Yes. Kaylee Lorincz is here today, and she was 
abused after I spoke out.
    Ms. Nichols. Yes.
    Ms. Raisman. Yes. I've met many of them. I also just want 
to be clear that in the time that I had reported my abuse to 
USA Gymnastics I've followed up many, many times. My mom would 
follow-up for me a lot of the time because, I'm sure as you can 
imagine, it was so hard for me, but also I was so scared 
because of the positions of power. We followed up so many times 
and we were constantly told that they were working on it, the 
most important thing was to keep it confidential, not to tell 
anyone. They even told me not really to talk about it with 
McKayla Maroney, give her breathing room.
    I thought that it was being handled. I can't express to 
you, when you're told by the president of USA Gymnastics at the 
time, Steve Penny, that they're handling it, they got it, I 
didn't know they were going to mishandle it and cover it up 
like they have. When they're telling me they're talking to FBI 
and they should be reaching out soon, I, unfortunately, 
believed them. I can't tell you the--how horrifying it is to 
meet young girls who look up to me, who watch me compete in the 
Olympics, and tell me that they went to see Nassar because of 
me and my teammates because they wanted to see the Olympic 
doctor. I guess in his office, Nassar's office, he had some 
photos of us. They went to see him because they thought it was 
so cool to have the same doctor as us.
    It's--that's been one of the hardest and most devastating 
parts for me is so many survivors suffer with guilt and shame. 
It's take--it takes everything I have to work on not taking the 
blame for that because it is--it's horrific, and I--it's 
horrible to meet them and to know that over 100 victims could 
have been spared the abuse if all we needed was one adult to 
the right thing.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Blumenthal. Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I join all of my 
colleagues in thanking each of you for coming forward. We know 
that there are young kids who look up to you as the fantastic 
athletes and gymnasts that you are. As they get older, I hope 
that they realize the courage that--so many of us use that word 
courage--you coming forward to tell us your stories and the 
experiences of horrific abuse that you--you suffered.
    I think all people who have suffered abuse, it is really 
hard for them to even talk to anybody, to talk to anybody about 
it. It was hard enough for you to report your abuse, to be very 
specific about what happened to you. Then to be shunted aside, 
to get the feeling that they--that the people that you relied 
on to do their jobs, that they thought it was not a big deal, I 
think that compounds the horrific abuse that you experienced.
    You're right to demand better from the FBI, the USA 
Gymnastics, and others including us in this hearing today and 
to show people that reports of abuse should be taken seriously. 
Those who come forward as you did should be believed. Period. 
Your courage in shining a light on a culture of complicity, 
exploitation, and abuse of power inspire others to come 
forward. I acknowledge how much courage it took for you to 
report in the first place, to have to undergo that horrifying 
experiences once again, to tell perfect strangers what happened 
to you and to not be taken seriously. That it was we need to 
change.
    You have to undergo therapy. You know what? The main thing 
is that we should prevent these kinds of abuses from happening 
in the first place, and that is where--and, of course, if it 
happens, we need to hold people who will abuse accountable. 
Thank you so much for coming forward.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Hirono. We probably have 
another 10 or 15 minutes, and I don't know if we need a break 
now or want to go straight through to the end. Anybody looking 
for a break?
    Ms. Biles. We're good.
    Chair Durbin. You're good? Great. Senator Booker.
    Senator Booker. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I want to thank you as well for being here today. It took 
tremendous courage. I'm not sure how many people fully realize 
the burden on survivors in America to come forward and recall 
what happened to them. It is, in a sense, not just recalling 
the trauma and the violence and the pain. It is, as you all 
will know, being forced to relive it. For that, I am deeply 
grateful that you would sit here in a room of strangers, in 
front of powerful people and, again, relive that trauma.
    I also know you didn't come here for our kind words, or our 
proudness, or our empathy. You came here for justice. You came 
here for action. You've heard words literally for years, and 
you're still fighting. You're fighting against a systemic 
problem in our country that isn't just in sports. We've seen it 
from church institutions to the Boy Scouts. When you talk about 
pedophilia all the way to sexual assault, we see it in diners, 
workplaces, factory floors. You all, as athletes, are doing 
something in a tradition that is, to me, what has helped to 
call the conscience of our country forward and expand our moral 
imagination to stop injustices of other sorts, from people who 
endured outrageous realities like Billie Jean King, who used 
their platforms not to try to get individual attention but to 
try to change this Nation and make it more just.
    I'm grateful that we are at a point where we have such 
bipartisan determination in this town. It's not often enough. 
Here we have bipartisan determination of some--my most 
respected colleagues to deliver what you really came for, which 
is action. I say that to tell you also that we all know that 
the road to change, real change, systemic change, not just in 
sport but in our culture, that seems to tolerate such a high 
level of this sort of violence, that that is going to take 
time.
    There's one saying that always rings in my head, that the 
only thing necessary for injustice to continue is for good 
people to do nothing. You all have seen that firsthand. I've 
heard you before be asked the question by media to even in this 
institution today, you asked the question, ``Do you have any 
words for other survivors?'' I would like to simply ask the 
question of you to answer to put the point in the light where 
it belongs. It shouldn't take something directly happening to 
us to trigger our empathy and our action. Maybe I would like to 
know if you have any words for Americans who amidst a country 
where this violence happens every single day. Is there 
something you'd like to say to us who all have to understand 
that we are playing a part in a culture that allows this to 
happen.
    Ms. Raisman. I would like to say that I personally don't 
think that people realize how much experiencing a type of abuse 
is not something that one just suffers in the moment. It 
carries on with them sometimes for the rest of their lives. For 
example, being here today is taking everything I have. My main 
concern is I hope I have the energy even to just walk out of 
here. I don't think people realize how much it affects us, how 
much the PTSD, how much the trauma impacts us. For every 
survivor, it's different. Healing looks different for every 
survivor. The aftermath looks very different.
    For me, just to paint a picture, I used to train, some 
days, seven hours a day when I was training for the Olympics. 
Processing my abuse affected me so much, and it is still 
something I struggle with, that I can remember when I first 
shared my story publicly, for a very, very long time I didn't 
even have the energy to stand up in the shower. I would have to 
sit on the floor and wash my hair because standing up was too 
exhausting for me. I couldn't even go for a 10-minute walk 
outside. This is someone--I've competed in two Olympic Games. 
There are times where I feel like I forget what I'm saying. I 
feel like my mind isn't working. I feel like I have no energy 
at all. I'm 27 years old, and I--my 80-year-old grandfather has 
more energy than I do.
    I've often wondered is this--am I ever going to feel 
better? And it has affected my health. I--in the last couple of 
years, I've had to be taken in an ambulance because I pass out 
and I'm so sick from just the trauma. It might not even be 
after a hearing like this. It just hits me out of the blue. I 
think it's important for people to understand how much--you 
know, even if we're not crying, how much we are all struggling 
and how much survivors are suffering because people often say, 
``Well, why did you just come forward now?'' Because it's 
terrifying to come forward, the fear of not being believed, but 
also because it affects us so much. Sometimes it's impossible 
just to say the words out loud. I just want people to know, and 
I'm sure for a lot of us, especially myself, like this might 
take me months to recover.
    I just wanted to make that clear because I think it's 
important for people to start recognizing you may never know 
what someone else is going through. For people who have been 
through trauma, it's really hard. If someone's watching this 
that is feeling really tired that is a survivor and doesn't 
know why they're having certain issues that are new, just know 
that--that you're not alone. I experienced the same thing, and 
hopefully in time we can feel better.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Booker. I do believe 
Senator Blackburn is available by Webex. Senator.
    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Because of limited bandwidth, I will just do this by voice. 
I want to say a thank you to each of the women for being there 
today and the power of their stories and their words.
    Three quick questions and----
    Chair Durbin. Senator Blackburn, can you hear us?
    Senator Blackburn. Yes, I can hear you.
    Chair Durbin. We missed your three questions.
    Senator Blackburn. Yes, three questions. Number one, what 
are the reforms that you would like to see take place? Number 
two, if you do not trust SafeSport, then what we would like to 
know is who is a trustworthy--or is there an organization or an 
individual that has your trust to be the go-to? The third 
thing, did the FBI ever offer you a female agent who could walk 
with you through this process?
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Blackburn. I'm going to 
let the panel respond to you, and we have two more witnesses--
pardon me--two more Members after you. Thank you. Would----
    Ms. Maroney. I never had a female agent alongside me. I'm 
sorry that I'm not answering more questions. After telling that 
story, I just--it's--I'm exhausted.
    Chair Durbin. Understood. Anyone else want to respond?
    Ms. Biles. I didn't--there was a female agent in the room 
with me at the OTC in 2016. Most of it was fueled by men just 
asking questions. I honestly didn't know what I was walking 
into. They just told me I had a meeting with the FBI, didn't 
tell me what it was about. I was just pulled in a random--it 
was kind of like a hotel room. They just started asking 
questions. That was never prompted.
    Chair Durbin. All right. Senator Padilla.
    Ms. Raisman. I think I had--I think I had a female agent in 
the room at the Olympic Training Center as well. I am not 
entirely sure.
    Chair Durbin. Okay.
    Ms. Biles. I feel like we all had the same people.
    Ms. Raisman. I--if I could--if I recall, my direct 
communication was with a male FBI agent.
    Ms. Biles. Right. In the room.
    Chair Durbin. Okay. Senator Padilla.
    Senator Padilla. Good morning. I want to start by thanking 
Chairman Durbin and all those who have made this hearing 
possible and to the panelists. Just thank you. Thank you. Thank 
you. Thank you. I admire and respect each one of you for 
choosing to participate today, for sharing your testimony with 
us.
    Clearly, today's not easy. I recognize that you each had 
the option of respectfully declining the invitation to be here. 
You didn't. I hope that you'll understand that your presence 
here is not just so important to the Members of this Committee, 
and to the Senate as a body, but also speaks volumes for the 
countless victims of abuse that are out there listening or 
watching or will listen or will watch.
    I appreciate the conversation about mental health that was 
prompted by the questions from Senator Booker. My wife is a 
very active mental health advocate, and so she has trained me 
well to be cognizant of those issues and ask important and 
timely questions as well. Ms. Biles, I hope you might have 
heard about some of our amplification of your courage from the 
most recent Olympics to take care of yourself first. That took 
a lot. That took a lot at that moment.
    I'm just going to offer a few comments. I think that most 
of the questions that I would raise have been raised by my 
colleagues. I do also want to make it clear that Mr. Nassar's 
criminal cases, while they've been closed, we cannot and will 
not ignore the missteps that enabled his rampant misconduct. 
The power structure that shielded him has no place in America, 
not today, not in our future. If we're to achieve the highest 
ideals of our Nation, right--we talk about fairness and 
equality so often--then we won't just ask why. We cannot give 
up until we get the answers as to why this man was allowed to 
use his position of power to abuse for so long.
    We won't just ask why. We commit to getting the answers to 
why the initial investigation into these matters was bungled. 
Last, we commit ourselves to building a justice system that 
holds powerful people, you know, learning from this particular 
case, that holds other powerful people accountable for their 
actions.
    Again, my main message to you is just thank you. Through 
your participation and what we will learn and what we will do, 
we hope to better protect future generations. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. Senator Ossoff.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you again to all of you for being 
here and being so direct with us and enduring this experience.
    I just want to assure that you I've listened and heard what 
you're demanding. The burden shouldn't be on you to see that 
there is not impunity in this case. Personnel at the FBI, Jay 
Abbott and his subordinates, Steve Penny, USA Gymnastics, the 
U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committees; the burden is ours in 
the U.S. Senate to see that there is a full investigation, that 
there is personal accountability and institutional 
accountability for abuse, enablement of abuse, neglectful and 
improper law enforcement conduct, and I think compelling 
evidence of potential obstruction of justice and official 
corruption in this case as well.
    Thank you again for your testimony. I'll make sure that 
each of you and your families and representatives have contact 
information for me and for my office and continue to work with 
my colleagues to ensure that justice is done. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Ossoff.
    Ms. Biles, Ms. Maroney, Ms. Nichols, Ms. Raisman, thanks 
for your testimony today. It was historic, and it'll make a 
difference in the lives of many people who are witnessing it. 
You don't have to wait for the judges to put numbers up on the 
board. You all were gold medalists today in the cause of 
justice. Thank you for joining us. You're excused.
    Ms. Biles. Thank you.
    Ms. Raisman. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. We're going to take a 10-minute break while 
we set up for the next panel.
    [Whereupon the Committee was recessed and reconvened.]
    Chair Durbin. The hearing will now resume. We will now hear 
from our second panel, FBI Director Christopher Wray and the 
Department of Justice Inspector General Michael Horowitz. If 
they could come forward. No microphone? There's a live 
microphone out there and somebody's going to be broadcast and 
not prepared.
    Could the witnesses please stand to be sworn in? Please 
raise your right hand.
    [Witnesses are sworn in.]
    Chair Durbin. Let the record show that the witnesses 
answered in the affirmative. I believe Director Wray would you 
proceed with your opening statement please.

             STATEMENT OF HON. CHRISTOPHER A. WRAY,

           DIRECTOR, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION,

                         WASHINGTON, DC

    Director Wray. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member 
Grassley, Members of the Committee.
    On behalf of the entire FBI, I want to begin by saying to 
the brave women who testified here this morning, Ms. Biles, Ms. 
Maroney, Ms. Nichols, and Ms. Raisman and I gather there were 
some others here today who were among the many who Nassar hurt, 
I'm deeply and profoundly sorry to each and every one of you.
    I'm sorry for what you and your families have been through. 
I'm sorry that so many different people let you down over and 
over again. I'm especially sorry that there were people at the 
FBI who had their own chance to stop this monster back in 2015 
and failed. And that is inexcusable, it never should have 
happened, and we're doing everything in our power to make sure 
it never happens again.
    Before I became FBI Director, I was generally familiar with 
the Nassar story shortly after his arrest in 2016. I remember, 
even then, being appalled that there were so many people who 
had failed to do their jobs and keep these young women safe 
from that predator. After I became FBI Director, and when I 
learned that there were people at the FBI who had also failed 
these women, I was heartsick and furious. I immediately ordered 
a special review by our Inspection Division to try to get to 
the bottom of it. That review led in part to the Inspector 
General's own review, and I'm grateful to Inspector General 
Horowitz for his team's extensive and independent work.
    I want to be crystal clear. The actions and inaction of the 
FBI employees detailed in this report are totally unacceptable. 
These individuals betrayed the core duty that they have of 
protecting people. They failed to protect young women and girls 
from abuse. The work we do certainly is often complicated and 
uncertain, and we're never going to be perfect. The kinds of 
fundamental errors that were made in this case in 2015 and 2016 
should never have happened. Period. As long as I'm FBI 
Director, I'm committed to doing everything in my power to make 
sure they never happen again.
    The FBI cannot carry out its vital mission of protecting 
the American people without trust. In this case, FBI agents--
certain FBI agents--broke that trust repeatedly and 
inexcusably, and to pretend otherwise would be yet one more 
insult to the survivors. Failures like the ones that happened 
in this case threaten the very confidence we rely on every day 
to keep people safe. I want to make sure the public knows that 
the reprehensible conduct reflected in this report is not 
representative of the work that I see from our 37,000 folks 
every day. The actions, instead, of the agents described in 
this report are a discredit to all those men and women who do 
the job the right way with uncompromising integrity, the way 
the American people rightly expect and deserve.
    Throughout my career as a prosecutor and now at the Bureau, 
I have found that the agents and officers who investigate 
crimes against children and sex crimes are among the most 
compassionate and fiercely dedicated out there. I suspect a 
number of you on the Committee have had the same experience on 
your end, and I am grateful to the women who came forward today 
so that I can say to everyone that there is no more important 
work in law enforcement than helping victims of abuse. It's 
work that's got to get done right every single time.
    It is essential that we do everything we can to ensure that 
victims continue to come forward with confidence that their 
reports are going to be thoroughly and aggressively 
investigated. A big part of that is accountability and holding 
our folks to the highest standard our work requires.
    When I received the Inspector General's report and saw that 
the supervisory special agent in Indianapolis had failed to 
carry out even the most basic parts of the job, I immediately 
made sure he was no longer performing the functions of a 
special agent. I can now tell you that that individual no 
longer works for the FBI in any capacity.
    As for the former Indianapolis special agent in charge, the 
descriptions of his behavior also reflect violations of the 
FBI's long-standing code of conduct and the ethical obligations 
for all FBI employees, especially senior officials. That 
individual has been gone from the Bureau for about three and a 
half years, having retired in January 2018, before any review 
launched. I will say--I will say it is extremely frustrating 
that we are left with little disciplinary recourse when people 
retire before their cases can be adjudicated.
    Let me be clear. People who engage in that kind of gross 
misconduct have no place in the FBI. I can also assure you that 
the FBI's response is not limited to dealing with those who 
failed so profoundly back in 2015. To make sure that something 
like this never happens again, we've already begun fully 
implementing all of the Inspector General's recommendations, 
that includes strengthening our policies and procedures, 
strengthening our training to firmly underscore the critical 
importance of thoroughly and expeditiously responding to all 
allegations of sexual assault or abuse because, as I said a 
moment ago, the American people are counting on us to get this 
done right every time.
    Finally, I'd like to make a promise to the women who 
appeared here today and to all survivors of abuse. I am not 
interested in simply addressing this wrong and moving on. It's 
my commitment to you that I and my entire senior leadership 
team are going to make damn sure everybody at the FBI remembers 
what happened here in heartbreaking detail. We need to remember 
the pain that occurred when our folks failed to do their jobs. 
We need to study it. We need to learn from it. That is the best 
way I know to make sure that this devastating tragedy is never 
repeated.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Grassley and 
Members of the Committee, for the opportunity to testify today. 
I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Wray appears as a submission 
for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you. Inspector General Horowitz.

             STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL E. HOROWITZ,

          INSPECTOR GENERAL, UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT

                   OF JUSTICE, WASHINGTON, DC

    Inspector General Horowitz. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, 
Ranking Member Grassley, Members of the Committee. I also want 
to begin my testimony by recognizing the many courageous 
gymnasts who came forward to report Larry Nassar's abuses and 
by thanking Ms. Biles, Ms. Maroney, Ms. Nichols, and Ms. 
Raisman for their compelling testimony today.
    These gymnasts have shown remarkable bravery in detailing 
the sexual assaults they endured at the very same time they 
were competing at the highest levels for our country. They did 
so with the belief that their actions would save other young 
women and girls from the serially--serial abuse they endured. 
Sadly, as detailed in our report, the response of the FBI 
agents who received that information betrayed their law 
enforcement responsibilities and their duties to these victims.
    Nassar's abuses could and should have been stopped sooner 
if appropriate action had been taken. Not only did that not 
occur, but after the agents' failures came to light, records 
were created that inaccurately described their handling of the 
matter and falsely summarized the testimony, as you heard, of 
Ms. Maroney.
    Further, when called to account for their actions, two of 
the agents lied to our OIG investigators. The OIG was able to 
investigate and identify these failures only because of the 
courage of the athletes who spoke to our investigators. What 
they did was extraordinarily difficult, and I want to thank 
them for their cooperation and strength in coming forward and 
speaking to us. Because of their actions, critical reforms are 
being undertaken to ensure that events such as these do not 
occur again.
    Let me briefly just summarize the results of our 
investigation. In July 2015, USA Gymnastics reported the sexual 
assault allegations against Nassar to the FBI's Indianapolis 
field office. USA Gymnastics officials described graphic 
information that had been provided by Ms. Maroney, Ms. Nichols, 
and Ms. Raisman and informed the FBI that all three athletes 
were available to be interviewed.
    However, it wasn't until six weeks later, on September 2nd, 
that the Indianapolis office interviewed Ms. Maroney by 
telephone, as you heard, and neither Ms. Nichols nor Ms. 
Raisman were ever interviewed by that office. Moreover, the 
Indianapolis office did not formally document its interview of 
Ms. Maroney at the time or its July meeting with USA 
Gymnastics. The office also didn't formally open an 
investigation or an assessment of the matter.
    Immediately following that September 2nd interview, the 
Indianapolis office and local Federal prosecutors concluded 
there was no venue in Indianapolis for the Federal 
investigation. Both offices also had serious questions as to 
whether there was Federal criminal jurisdiction as opposed to 
State or local jurisdiction. Yet, the Indianapolis field office 
didn't advise State or local authorities about the allegations 
and didn't take any actions to mitigate the risks to gymnasts 
that Nassar was continuing to treat.
    Further, that office failed to transfer the case to the FBI 
office that actually might have had venue, despite informing 
USA Gymnastics that it had actually done so. After eight months 
of FBI inactivity, in May 2016, USA Gymnastics officials 
contacted the FBI's Los Angeles field office to report the same 
allegations it had provided to the Indianapolis office. 
Following this meeting, the LA office opened a Federal 
investigation and undertook numerous investigative steps. 
Critically, it didn't contact State or local authorities, and 
it didn't take action to mitigate the ongoing threat presented 
by Nassar.
    It wasn't until August 2016, when Michigan State University 
police, that police department, received a separate sexual 
assault complaint from another gymnast. In September 2016, the 
next month, the MSU Police Department executed a court author--
authorized search of Nassar's residence. Among other things, 
they ceased devices containing over 30,000 images of child 
pornography.
    According to civil court documents, approximately 70 or 
more young athletes were allegedly sexually abused by Nassar 
under the guise of medical treatment between July 2015, when 
the FBI first received these allegations, until September 2016.
    We further found that, when the FBI's handling of the 
Nassar matter came under scrutiny in 2017 and 2018, 
Indianapolis officials provided inaccurate information to make 
it appear that they had actually been diligent in their follow-
up efforts and did so in part by blaming others. In addition, 
it resulted in the Indianapolis supervisory special agent 
drafting a summary of his telephonic interview of Ms. Maroney 
from 2015. That summary included statements, as you heard from 
Ms. Maroney, that didn't accurately reflect what she had told 
them and could have actually jeopardized the criminal 
investigations by providing--by including false information 
that could have bolstered Nassar's defense.
    Further, we concluded that that agent made false testimony 
statements to the OIG in two interviews that we conducted. We 
also learned during our investigation that in the fall of 2015, 
the FBI Indianapolis Special Agent in Charge Jay Abbott met 
with USA Gymnastics President Steve Penny at a bar and 
discussed the potential job opportunity with the U.S. Olympic 
Committee. Thereafter, Abbott engaged with Penny about both his 
interest in the U.S. Olympic Committee job and the Nassar 
investigation, while at the same time participating in Nassar 
investigation discussions at the FBI. Abbott applied for the 
U.S. Olympic Committee position in 2017, but wasn't selected.
    We determined that Abbott's actions violated the FBI's 
clear conflicts of interest policy. We also found that Abbott 
made false statements to the OIG and my agents in two 
interviews that we conducted.
    I want to conclude my testimony where I started by 
recognizing the courage and bravery of the extraordinary 
gymnasts that we heard from today and that we've heard from--
and that came before law enforcement in other settings. Their 
persistence and strength are an example to all of us who work 
in the area of accountability and want to promote 
accountability.
    Although the sexual abuses by Nassar and the appallingly 
inadequate response by the FBI agents cannot be undone, these 
athletes' commitment to justice and their pursuit of 
accountability for all involved in this deeply tragic series of 
events will improve our institutions ultimately, and will help 
ensure Federal law enforcement responds in appropriate and a 
timely way to reports the--the sexual abuse in the future.
    Our report recommends several important and necessary 
reforms. As Director Wray indicated, the FBI has begun taking 
them. We will continue to conduct our independent oversight 
work to ensure that they're effectively implemented.
    Thank you. I'd be pleased to answer any questions the 
Committee may have.
    [The prepared statement of Inspector General Horowitz 
appears as a submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you very much, Inspector General 
Horowitz. Thank you for your excellent work as usual in this 
report.
    Director Wray, I'm trying to--it had to touch you 
personally, as not only in your official capacity but even just 
as a parent, to listen to these young women tell the stories of 
what they had been through. What strikes me here is there 
doesn't seem to have ever been a sense of urgency or immediacy 
in that Indianapolis field office. The July reporting leading 
to the September attempt--vain attempt to change venue on the 
case to Lansing, which didn't happen. Then the later report in 
Los Angeles, and then they sat on it. What's missing? What am I 
missing here? This is like a child kidnapping case. This man is 
on the loose molesting children, and it appears that it's being 
lost in the paperwork of the agency.
    Director Wray. Needless to say, I share your reactions. I 
share your bewilderment. I share your outrage. You know, on a 
personal note, not just as a parent, or a brother, or a 
husband, but as somebody whose first introduction to law 
enforcement was working as an intern in the DA's office in a 
unit specifically focused on these kinds of crimes, it was part 
of what motivated me to pursue a career in law enforcement in 
the first place.
    I don't have a good explanation for you. It is utterly 
jarring to me. It is totally inconsistent with what we train 
our people on, totally inconsistent with what I see from the 
hundreds of agents who work these cases every day. That's why 
that individual has been fired.
    Chair Durbin. Understood. You also heard Ms. Maroney talk 
about that--I can't imagine this. Three hours she's siting on 
her bedroom floor going through an interview which you could 
tell was by a person, whoever it was, totally insensitive to 
this young woman's tragic experience. What has the FBI learned 
from that? I mean, in terms of cases of this sensitivity, to at 
least have interviewers that can sense there are certain words 
you better be careful with?
    Director Wray. Thank you for that question. It illustrates 
something that's particular that we've put in place. We have 
something called CAFIs, which are child/adolescent forensic 
interviewers. These are interviewers who are specially trained 
in the unique sensitivities of what it takes to interview 
people, victims, survivors of these kinds of crimes. One of the 
reforms that we've put in place is to make crystal clear in 
policy that interviews of individuals like Ms. Raisman should 
be conducted with those kinds of interviewers. They should not 
be conducted telephonically. They should be conducted in 
person, wherever possible.
    That was true before. We've made it more clear now, and 
we're putting training in place--mandatory training, which has 
already been completed--to ensure that that occurs. That's 
partially--partial answer to your question on that one.
    Chair Durbin. General Horowitz, did any of the FBI 
employees or agents involved in this case deliberately 
misrepresent any facts to you in your investigation?
    Inspector General Horowitz. They did. We found both that 
the person who wrote the report that Mr. Maroney testified 
about falsely testified to us about what he did in connection 
with that report as well as other matters that we asked them 
about, and Special Agent in Charge Abbott made false statements 
to us about the steps he took in 2015 when these allegations 
came in, but also about his effort--job-seeking efforts with 
the U.S. Olympic Committee.
    Chair Durbin. Did these deliberate misrepresentations reach 
the level of criminal violation?
    Inspector General Horowitz. We found that they violated 
criminal laws sufficiently that what we do at that point is 
make the referral to prosecutors to assess them because that's 
who needs to make the decision whether or not there will be 
charges brought.
    Chair Durbin. Director Wray, what happened next?
    Director Wray. As Inspector General Horowitz said, those 
were referred to the prosecutors over at the Justice 
Department. They're the ones that made the decision. As I 
understand it from Inspector General Horowitz's report, the 
prosecutors at the Justice Department on two separate 
occasions, both in 2020 and then again in 2021, declined to 
prosecute. I really would defer to the Justice Department for 
those decisions.
    Chair Durbin. Are you personally aware or professionally 
aware of any facts or circumstances that would lead to that 
decision?
    Director Wray. I am not.
    Chair Durbin. It is outrageous. I am sorry because I have a 
great faith in this Attorney General and his Department of 
Justice. When we asked them to bring someone in to explain this 
today, they refused and said they wouldn't attend. I understand 
that it's procedure in the Department not to go into the basis 
for deciding to--not to pursue prosecution. This is, on its 
face, obvious that these agents not only were derelict in their 
duty when it came to these young women but also did their best 
to cover up what had happened. That is inexcusable from where I 
am standing.
    Let me ask you this finally, Director Wray. I am going to 
accept your profession of real caring, and I believe it is real 
caring about what happened in this circumstance today. What can 
you tell me, if it happened tomorrow, would be different?
    Director Wray. There's a whole bunch of things we've done 
differently. First, we've accepted every single one of 
Inspector General Horowitz's recommendation and then some. 
We've already begun implementing all of those. We are 
strengthening policies. We're strengthening procedures. We're 
strengthening training. We're strengthening our systems, all 
building in double checks, triple checks, safeguards, 
oversight, different ways of making sure that we cannot have, 
as occurred here in certain instances, a single point of 
failure. That's one of the lessons here. That's just totally 
unacceptable.
    So, part of what's built-in is a bunch of, as I said, 
double and triple, even quadruple, checks to make sure that 
doesn't happen, both in terms of how the initial reports are 
handled, the appropriate urgency there, but also in terms of 
communication. One of the important recommendations from 
Inspector General Horowitz is reporting to State and local law 
enforcement, as well as communications between field offices, 
transfers between field offices. I can go into more detail 
about any of those, but those--those are part of it.
    Then the last thing I would say is that there are some 
things that occurred here that are just so basic and so 
fundamental and so foreclosed by our policies. As Inspector 
General Horowitz said, we have pretty clear policies on a lot 
of these things. I have tried to make clear in very stern 
language to not just the field offices involved here, but to 
the executive management of every single field office in the 
entire leadership team of the FBI, that on no planet is what 
happened in this case acceptable.
    Chair Durbin. One last quick question. It seems that a lot 
of the decisions were being pinned on whether or not there was 
an alleged violation of the sex tourism statute. Why is that 
such an exclusive remedy then, if you're not on all fours with 
that, in fact, the FBI agent felt that they were constrained to 
do anything?
    Director Wray. I'm not steeped in the particulars of the 
sex tourism statute in the way that I used to be. What I would 
say is that one of the things that we've tried, both the Deputy 
Director and I, to make clear to people is that we don't want 
people getting wrapped up around the axle about Federal 
jurisdiction issues at the front end. Part of what needs to 
happen while they're figuring that out in consultation with the 
prosecutors, which is what should happen, they need to make 
sure that they're reporting to State and local law 
enforcement----
    Chair Durbin. State and local.
    Director Wray [continuing]. On a parallel track. That's one 
of the key takeaways that comes out of Inspector General 
Horowitz's report.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you. Senator Grassley.
    Senator Grassley. Yes. Please give me a minute before the 
clock starts to ask unanimous consent to include in the record 
letters that I have sent over the last few years that show the 
nonresponsiveness of the FBI to our inquiries on this subject.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Without objection.
    Senator Grassley. Then a second one would be a little bit 
unrelated to this, but it deals with the unresponsiveness of 
Director Wray in regard to--so I hope the Committee will listen 
to this as well. I've asked Director Wray several times to meet 
with me relating to a very troubling briefing that I received 
August 2020 from the FBI, and which was later weaponized 
against my and Senator Johnson's oversight. Director Wray and 
his staff have ignored my request to meet mimicking the pattern 
here at the Nassar case nonresponsiveness. Without objection, 
I'd like to introduce into the record of the hearing today an 
email thread illustrating the FBI's nonresponsiveness to my 
request. This email shows the great length that I went to 
getting a meeting with Director Wray.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. No objection.
    Senator Grassley. Okay. My question to Director Wray. The 
Inspector General's report shows that Jay Abbott, a senior 
official in the Indianapolis field office at FBA--FBI, was 
allowed to retire in 2018 and evade prosecution, even though 
this report describes significant misconduct by him and an 
agent under his supervision. I've asked that the Attorney 
General reconsider the decision not to file charges against 
some of the individuals involved in the case. I'd like you to 
provide this Committee with a list of all disciplinary actions 
that took place with respect to FBI personnel who were the 
subject of this investigation. I believe that you owe that, at 
the very least, to the victims of today's hearing.
    Director Wray. We can provide the Committee with whatever 
information we can.
    Certainly, as I've already testified here today, the 
special agent--supervisory special agent who featured so 
prominently in Inspector General Horowitz's report, I can 
confirm has been terminated. As to the former special agent in 
charge, he retired before this review commenced, before we 
learned the extent of his misconduct, much to my frustration. 
As to the decision whether or not to prosecute either 
individual, I would respectfully refer over to the Justice 
Department, which I think is where Senator Grassley you said 
your letter was appropriately directed.
    Senator Grassley. I'd like you to cooperate in ensuring 
that the prosecution of those individuals who failed these 
victims and to give us your commitment that you would go to the 
Justice Department again to try to get that done.
    Director Wray. I'm happy to do whatever would be 
appropriate. In this particular case, the criminal 
investigation that was conducted, the case agents as it were, 
were from Inspector General Horowitz's Office, which I think is 
as appropriate. That's really a discussion between his Office 
and the Justice Department. If I can be a constructive part of 
that, given how strongly I feel, as I hope the Committee can 
tell, I'm happy to do whatever I can that would be appropriate.
    Senator Grassley. Next question. Why didn't the Children's 
Unit at headquarters play a greater supervisory or coordination 
role here, for example, by ensuring that the correct office at 
the FBI handled this matter, and why didn't it followup to 
ensure that the Indianapolis office had referred the matter to 
an FBI office that had jurisdiction over these allegations?
    Director Wray. I want to be careful not to try to 
paraphrase too much Inspector General Horowitz's report since 
he's really the master of the facts here. As I understand it, 
among the things that happened here were that the Indianapolis 
folks most responsible concealed information from certain 
people at headquarters at different stages of--that's part of 
the problem.
    We have implemented changes now that go to the point that 
you're getting at, which is the transfers between field 
offices. We've built in a number of additional checks, and one 
of those three or four additional checks that we built in now 
gives headquarters program management visibility so that--which 
they're to monitor so that they can ensure as a second, third, 
fourth check, if you will, to make sure that the work is being 
followed up on and that the transfer is appropriately handled.
    Senator Grassley. Did anyone at the FBI headquarters 
consult with Indianapolis and Los Angeles offices about 
notifying State and local authorities about the allegations 
against Nassar?
    Director Wray. I don't know the answer to that. Inspector 
General Horowitz did the investigation. I'll let him speak to 
the facts.
    Inspector General Horowitz. Senator, I'm not aware of 
discussions about referring it to State and local authorities.
    Senator Grassley. Director Wray, how far did knowledge of 
the Nassar investigation extend within the FBI headquarters in 
2015?
    Director Wray. My understanding of the most senior 
individual involved, based on looking at the thorough and 
independent investigation that Inspector General Horowitz 
conducted, was that the most senior individual with sort of 
knowledge and responsibility was the special agent in charge in 
Indianapolis, Mr. Abbott. Again, I would defer to Inspector 
General Horowitz on that.
    Senator Grassley. Was the director aware of the Nassar 
matter at any time in or before calendar year 2016?
    Director Wray. I don't know the answer to that, sir. Maybe 
Inspector General Horowitz does.
    Inspector General Horowitz. I----
    Senator Grassley. Prior to 2017, did the FBI headquarters 
follow-up with its field offices about the status of the Nassar 
investigation and whether further Federal investigation was 
needed?
    Mr. Horowitz. Senator, there was, in 2016, some dialog 
about that. As we describe in our report, the FBI policies 
don't require the level of detail and reporting to the 
headquarters unit that would, for example, put the 
responsibility directly on them to have notified State and 
local authorities.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Leahy.
    Senator Leahy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm glad, Mr. 
Horowitz and Director Wray, that you're here. The conclusions 
we have here are--I suppose the nice way to say is they're 
troubling. They're damning. They're horrible. I think of the 
young women who testified here today, what they went through. I 
don't see where they get much solace out of listening to this 
and what the American people feel.
    Senator Grassley just mentioned Mr. Horowitz about Jay 
Abbott named in the OIG report. He retired. Was that a forced 
retirement?
    Director Wray. It was not.
    Senator Leahy. Did he ever face any possibility of 
prosecution?
    Director Wray. We referred our findings to the Department's 
prosecutors for consideration about the false statements that 
he made to us in our interviews.
    Senator Leahy. By consideration, do you make a 
recommendation when you do that?
    Director Wray. We don't make a formal recommendation. As 
you know, as a former prosecutor, and I was a former 
prosecutor, there are informal discussions. Ultimately, the 
responsibility for the decision is with the prosecutors. I will 
say, having written a report a couple years ago about the prior 
FBI director's statements at a public press conference about 
what he would do as a--if he were the prosecutor, you know, I 
would--I'm not about to jump in and take someone else's 
responsibility.
    Senator Leahy. No. I understand that. When I was a 
prosecutor and law enforcement sent their investigations, I had 
to make the final decision, of course. I think that a number of 
people get charged for lying to FBI agents. I mean, we've seen 
such charges that brought in various areas and from organized 
crime on. I'm just--it is troubling to me to see that an FBI 
agent who lied, broke the law, knew he's breaking the law, and 
nothing happens. I understand--I understand the procedures, but 
it bothers me greatly. The failures by the FBI field office in 
Indianapolis delayed the starting investigation of Larry 
Nassar's widespread sexual assaults of over 100 victims. 
Everybody--I don't care where they are in the political 
spectrum or anything else--had to be torn apart listening to 
the testimony of these victims this morning. I know I was.
    The--we talked about Ms. Raisman's testimony. She didn't 
have a parent or a lawyer present when she was being 
questioned. Director Wray, is that--you've mentioned changing 
procedures. I realized this happened before you were Director. 
I'm asking were there changes in procedure. Today, would she 
have a parent or a lawyer present with her?
    Director Wray. That would be a discussion between the 
agents and her and her parents. One of the things that, as I've 
said, that we've changed is the--is to step up the emphasis on 
these, what we call CAFIs, C-A-F-I, these child/adolescent 
forensic interviewers. I cannot stress enough how important it 
is to view these kinds of interviews as a very unique kind of 
interview. There's all sorts of sensitivities. We heard a lot 
about in a very powerful way from the women who testified here 
this morning. The point you made about a parent's et cetera. 
That's part of--one of those many sensitivities. That's why 
it's so important to have interviews done by or at least 
heavily involving these child/adolescent forensic interviews. 
That's why we have that program. That's why the policy's been 
strengthened to increase the use of them and to require them. 
That's why we've discouraged in as much as possible telephonic 
interviews at all in these kinds of cases.
    One of the other I think helpful points that came out of 
Inspector General Horowitz's report is the clarification that 
that should also take into account women who are adults at the 
time of the interview but who were victimized when they were 
minors and--because that is its own kind of unique sensitivity. 
We're trying very hard to push out that program to avoid the 
kind of really heartbreaking insensitivity that you just 
alluded to.
    Senator Leahy. The supervisory special agent in 
Indianapolis, Michael Langeman, has now been fired. Have there 
been recommendations at--what took so long to fire him I might 
ask?
    Director Wray. We waited for the report. You know, one of 
the things that I want to make sure is that we don't have a 
situation where two wrongs make a right. We waited until we had 
the Inspector General's independent report. We followed our 
disciplinary process, and he's been fired.
    Senator Leahy. Did he contest the firing?
    Director Wray. I probably can't get into that discussion 
here. I want to be sensitive about Privacy Act concerns and so 
forth.
    Senator Leahy. Mr. Horowitz, if you can say, has there been 
a recommendation that he be prosecuted?
    Inspector General Horowitz. Again, what happened in these 
discussions generally are interactions with the prosecutors. We 
don't make a--generally speaking, we don't make a formal 
recommendation to the prosecutors. I think you'd have to have 
the Department's officials speak to that issue.
    Senator Leahy. Okay. I'll just close with this. I mean, I 
look at a whole lot of people should be prosecuted here besides 
Nassar obviously should be prosecuted. I'm thinking of some of 
the people within the athletic field that were aware of this, 
who turned a blind eye to it, who did nothing to it, and 
allowed all these victims to be there. I'm not talking about 
people in Government but even people outside. A whole of lot of 
people should be in prison. I'm glad he's in prison. I got to 
tell you, frankly, as a parent, as a grandparent, there's a 
hell of a lot more I'd like to see in prison. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you very much. Senator Feinstein.
    Senator Feinstein. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Gentlemen, when this report was released--and that's the IG 
report--on July 14, the FBI publicly promised, quote, ``To take 
all necessary steps to ensure that the failure of the employees 
outlined in the report do not happen again.'' That's a direct 
quote and an important promise. Can you please describe the 
specific steps, specific steps, the FBI has taken in the past 
two months to ensure that these failures do not happen again?
    Director Wray. Thank you, Senator Feinstein, for the 
question. First, as has already been mentioned, the 
disciplinary process has already been completed on the 
supervisory special agent and he's been fired.
    Second, we have strengthened policies, procedures, systems, 
and training to address and incorporate all, underline, all of 
Inspector General Horowitz's recommendations. Many of them are 
already complete now. That includes, for example, on the issue 
of reporting to State and local law enforcement, which, by the 
way, should have happened here anyways. To assure that it 
happens going forward, we now require that the agent handling 
one of these cases has to document that he's reported it, so 
there's an audit trail and he's accountable that way, that he 
has to confirm it to his supervisor.
    We've had additional mandatory training for everyone 
involved. We had two kinds of training already implemented, one 
for every single employee in the FBI--and I've taken that 
training myself--but also training specifically targeted at the 
employees who handle these kinds of cases and their 
supervisors. That's just on that one piece. We have similar 
changes to----
    Senator Feinstein. The--well----
    Director Wray [continuing]. The transfers between field 
offices and so forth.
    Senator Feinstein. Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Yes?
    Senator Feinstein. I don't want to go into more specifics. 
I heard his commitment. I would like to see it in writing sent 
to this Committee in the form of a letter following this 
hearing so that we have written evidence that the FBI is going 
to do certain things.
    Chair Durbin. I can certainly join you in preparing a 
letter to the FBI which they can respond to and with specifics 
and the Director's signature, correct?
    Director Wray. Yes, sir.
    Senator Feinstein. I very much would appreciate that, Mr. 
Chairman. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Horowitz, I am concerned that the FBI's failures in 
this case may be a symptom, may be a symptom of a broader 
failure to treat cases of child sexual abuse with the 
seriousness and sensitivity that they deserve. According to the 
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, one in four girls 
and one in 13 boys experience child sexual abuse during their 
childhood. Our law enforcement agencies really should ensure 
our children are protected. Have you seen other instances in 
which the FBI's failure to properly investigate a case led to 
ongoing sexual misconduct or harm to children that could have 
been prevented?
    Inspector General Horowitz. Senator, thank you. That--I 
agree with you about the significance, importance of this. We 
didn't do a broader look at this. I will say speaking to your 
point what concerned me particularly here, even though we 
didn't do a broad look at other cases, was we actually had two 
offices who dealt with this matter: the Indianapolis office and 
the LA office.
    The Indianapolis office had all of the basic fundamental 
failures that you've heard about and we've talked about. The--
and didn't tell State and local law enforcement. The LA field 
office actually did open a case and investigation, actually did 
interview witnesses, did do followup with some of the gymnasts, 
and yet they also failed to report to State and local 
authorities.
    You had an office that actually took this seriously but 
didn't do what was also, I think, a fair--fair to say, a 
fundamental step, purely since they also had concerns about 
whether there was Federal law enforcement--Federal jurisdiction 
here because, as we all know, these are usually the province of 
State and local prosecutors and investigators.
    Again, going back to something Director Wray said, the FBI 
policies before this made it clear that in these kind of cases 
State and local prosecutors are--investigators are force 
multipliers. Yet it didn't occur in either office, and that was 
particularly concerning.
    Senator Feinstein. Let me just for a moment engage you on 
that. You said a number of things in your statement. It is 
really important. Can this be put in any form of policy which 
becomes operational procedure for the agency so that this 
Committee and others know that things are going to change based 
on what has happened in the recent past?
    Inspector General Horowitz. The report makes clear and what 
we've heard today makes clear and Senator Blumenthal and 
Senator Moran's work make clear----
    Senator Feinstein. Absolutely. What I'm talking about----
    Inspector General Horowitz [continuing]. Things have to 
change. And----
    Senator Feinstein [continuing]. Are your procedures----
    Inspector General Horowitz. Right.
    Senator Feinstein [continuing]. Not what we say.
    Inspector General Horowitz. No. Right. What--what has to 
happen is what Director Wray mentioned that they are doing 
already and what we all need to do, the FBI, the OIG, this 
Committee, is do the follow-up you're talking about. We are 
going to continue to do our independent oversight of how those 
recommendations have been implemented like we do in all our 
reports. We will follow-up with that. I am happy to report back 
to the Committee on what we've seen. Steps do have to be taken 
because there does have to be, and it sounds like the FBI has 
taken those steps, to ensure record keeping on the fact that 
something did occur. That may sound obvious, and I know it 
could sound trivial at times, but one of the damning findings 
here is the lack of record keeping that was occurring in 2015, 
that was only documented or attempted to be documented in 2017, 
and then done falsely.
    Senator Feinstein. Could I--I don't meant to interrupt you.
    Inspector General Horowitz. Yes.
    Senator Feinstein. I would really--after all of the emotion 
and all of what we now know five years later to see new 
practices go into place. What I'm asking both of you is to do 
that and give us here and now some statement of your intent to 
do that, and that they will be posted, and people will be 
trained in them, and that they will be held responsible to 
carry them out so that what we've said here and spent the time 
here can really make the change that's necessary, that no small 
child is going to be questioned by an FBI agent on the phone, 
you know, about this kind of thing but----
    Inspector General Horowitz. The----
    Senator Feinstein [continuing]. What your practices are so 
that everybody knows.
    Inspector General Horowitz. We always follow-up on our 
recommendations. We will do that here. You have my commitment. 
We will report back to you what we found, and it will be up to 
the FBI to implement them. We will not stop reviewing this 
matter until we're confident--we, the OIG, me, are confident 
that the steps were taken that needed to be taken.
    Director Wray. I would just add that that's exactly what's 
contemplated with the incorporation of all of Inspector General 
Horowitz's recommendation: policy changes, additional 
safeguards in the process, mandatory training that addresses 
this. I can put all that in the letter that you and the 
chairman discussed. I would add that----
    Senator Feinstein. To the Chairman and to the Committee. 
Would you put that in a letter?
    Director Wray. Yes. We'll walk--walk through all the things 
that we're doing----
    Senator Feinstein. Thank you.
    Director Wray [continuing]. In response to----
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Feinstein.
    Inspector General Horowitz. Can I just add----
    Chair Durbin. Sure.
    Inspector General Horowitz [continuing]. Mr. Chairman? As 
you----
    Chair Durbin. Of course.
    Inspector General Horowitz [continuing]. Know and I think 
Senator Feinstein as you know, I will--I'm available at any 
time to meet with you, to discuss this with you further 
informally, more formally and----
    Senator Feinstein. Thank you.
    Inspector General Horowitz [continuing]. You have my 
commitment to that.
    Senator Feinstein. Thank you.
    Director Wray. May I just add, Mr. Chairman? Just in 
response to something else that, Senator Feinstein, you asked. 
I would be remiss if I didn't make the point that the work that 
I saw in this case that's reflect in what Inspector General 
Horowitz found--part of what was so head-jerking to me is how 
inconsistent it is with what I see from the agents, analysts, 
and professional staff who work these cases every day. I've 
seen them as a prosecutor. I've seen them now as FBI Director. 
Over the last five years, our folks working with their partners 
have made 16,000 arrests of people like Mr. Nassar. That by 
itself should be deeply----
    Senator Feinstein. Wow.
    Director Wray. [continuing] That should be deeply troubling 
and encouraging at the same time. Encouraging in the sense that 
there's those people taken off the streets, but deeply 
disturbing because it gives you a sense of just the sheer scale 
of this kind of abuse in this country, because I have no doubt 
that for the 16,000 arrests that we've made, Lord knows how 
many other predators there are out there that we didn't get.
    Senator Feinstein. Yes. That's staggering to me.
    Chair Durbin. It is.
    Senator Feinstein. I think we need to follow-up.
    Chair Durbin. We have to----
    Senator Feinstein. Thank you very much.
    Chair Durbin. [continuing] We have Members who are----
    Senator Feinstein. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin [continuing]. Have plane schedules, and we 
want to make sure they have their chance. Senator Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman Durbin.
    Director Wray, it strikes me very strongly as we sit here 
today and as we heard the powerful testimony earlier this 
morning, that the last time a woman came forward in this 
Committee to testify to her allegations of sexual assault in 
her childhood, the witness was Christine Blasey Ford. It 
appeared to me then, and it appears to me now, that her 
testimony was swept under the rug in a confirmation stampede.
    It is very possible that the FBI investigation of her 
allegations was just as flawed, just as constrained, just as 
inappropriate as the investigation in this case. We don't know 
because we don't have answers. I am still trying to get answers 
from you and from your organization, along with Senator Coons 
and others, after more than two years. Our first letter 
requesting information was on August 1st of 2019. Our follow-up 
we got a response to yesterday. Two months afterwards. Not 
coincidentally, I suspect, on the eve of your appearance today. 
Somebody said, ``Oh, we better get something up there because 
we haven't answered this question.''
    In that letter dated yesterday, the Assistant Director said 
that the FBI's working with the Department to identify and make 
available certain relevant documents. The answer wasn't even an 
answer. It was an answer that at some date in the future we 
might actually get an answer. Today, now, can you give me that 
date when these certain relevant documents will be provided to 
us?
    Director Wray. I am aware both of your prior letter but 
also of the letter that you most recently sent that I saw on 
Monday and the----
    Senator Whitehouse. Get to that in a minute. Let's start 
with the one I asked you.
    Director Wray. Right. The documents that, as I understand, 
are referenced in the letter that we sent yesterday, we are 
working with the Department, and we expect to get you those 
within the next two weeks.
    Senator Whitehouse. Very well. I'll be interested to see 
what deliberative executive branch information is included, as 
it strikes me that our request doesn't get into deliberative 
process at all. We'll see how that goes. I just hope that 
that's not being put up as yet another stall, delay, 
interference, obstruction to us getting the answers and the 
documents that we need.
    Separately, you went to it. I told you that if when I next 
had the chance--and today looked like it might be it--I wanted 
to ask you some very specific questions, and I didn't want to 
catch you by surprise. I wanted to let you know what those 
questions would be. I sent on September 10th, the letter with 
questions that, again, relate to Dr. Blasey Ford's allegations.
    I have 51 seconds left, so it's not going to work now. What 
I would like you to do is to tell me the date, here and now, 
when you will give me answers to these questions treated as a 
QFR. Just answer them in writing. As you know, I went years 
without getting QFRs answered by you and the FBI. I'd like to 
get a date now, in the plain view of the Committee with 
everybody listening, when these QFRs will be answered--when 
these questions will be answered as a QFR, question for the 
record.
    Director Wray. Sorry. I understand your request. My goal 
would be to try to have as many as possible of the details in 
response to your question included in the response that we're 
looking to get you within the next two weeks.
    Senator Whitehouse. Please don't----
    Director Wray. I say that--I say that because, like I said, 
I read your letter on Monday. We're already working on it, and 
we will endeavor to get--I think a lot of what we will be 
providing within the next two weeks will be responsive to those 
questions. I need to study them more. Today, I've really been 
focused, as I know you are, on the Nassar case, what happened 
to these women, and, in particular, the FBI's botched handling 
of this particular case in 2015.
    Senator Whitehouse. Yes. Let's just make sure that there 
wasn't also a botched handling of another allegation in this 
Committee with regard to Dr. Ford. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Coons.
    Senator Coons. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, and thank you, 
Senator Whitehouse, for your persistent engagement on the 
question of whether or not the tip line in the investigation to 
the allegations of Dr. Christine Blasey Ford was appropriately 
handled or not. I continue to join you in asking for some 
follow-up on our letters of the last few years.
    Mr. Horowitz, if I might, you know, I think this is an 
almost textbook demonstration of the positive role that an 
Inspector General can play. Broadly speaking, Director Wray, I 
appreciate your responses as the Director to the testimony and 
to the recommendations. I do want to make sure that we've 
covered a couple of things just many of my colleagues have 
already covered topics that I wanted to.
    I just--one of the talented athletes and survivors who 
testified to us today was very pointed, Ms. Aly Raisman, in 
saying that she believes there hasn't been a thorough, factual, 
independent investigation. I know Senator Blumenthal, who's an 
extremely capable senator and attorney and is quite experienced 
in investigations, he might speak to that. He and Senator Moran 
have conducted one. My impression from what she had said and 
what I've read is that their concern is that USA Gymnastics and 
the Olympic Committee have thrown a variety of roadblocks into 
a genuinely thorough investigation into whether there had or 
hadn't been previous incidents similar to Dr. Nassar, either in 
USA Gymnastics or within sports more broadly.
    It is hard to believe that this is the only time that there 
has been a failing of this scale given, Director Wray, what you 
just said about the 16,000 arrests. We all know that the horror 
of child sexual abuse is tragically far more widespread in this 
country and around the world than any of us would like to see.
    First, Mr. Horowitz, do you think there is still a pressing 
need, and who would be the appropriate entity to conduct that, 
and what, if any, advice do you have for us on respecting her 
request to this committee?
    Inspector General Horowitz. That's a great question, 
Senator Coons. Frankly, as you indicated, the reasons we could 
do a report like this and other reports that we've been able to 
do is because of the statutory authorities that we've been 
given by the Congress that make us independent. By the way, 
picking up on something Ms. Raisman said, which was very 
perceptive about who's funding the oversight, as you know, back 
in 2008, we were given an independent budget line so that our 
budget is not coming from the Justice Department, but is being 
set by an independent appropriator.
    I don't know, as I sit here frankly, what the oversight 
mechanisms are currently on USOC and the other entities. 
Actually, one of the things I did have a chance to talk with 
Senator Blumenthal about during the break was the importance 
of, given what I had heard from these gymnasts, the very issue 
you just mentioned, which is thinking about what is the right 
independent oversight mechanism of those bodies, which are not 
just private entities, right, that are--these are organizations 
that have been sanctioned by Congress to oversee our U.S. 
athletes. They need strong oversight as well, and I'm happy to 
work with you as well, Senator, and the Committee in thinking 
about how to do that because we are seeing the IG model 
replicated in many places, as you know, across the country, 
including many State and local entities.
    Senator Coons. I also frankly, in the opportunities I've 
had to visit with legislatures and national assemblies in other 
countries, the absence of a comparable structure----
    Inspector General Horowitz. Right.
    Senator Coons [continuing]. Is often at the core of how 
Government entities failed to be held accountable.
    Inspector General Horowitz. Exactly right.
    Senator Coons. Do I understand correctly, it's your 
testimony to us today that the FBI Director and the FBI broadly 
has embraced and is implementing the four major policy 
recommendations you made?
    Inspector General Horowitz. That's correct. The Director 
already made that clear before he actually got the report as he 
was telling us, you know? He was waiting for this report and 
could take those actions. He has certainly indicated to us, and 
we've gotten some information about the steps when taken. You 
know, as he knows and as you all know, we will independently 
look at that. It won't just be the FBI's word for it. You will 
also have OIG oversight of it.
    Senator Coons. Last question for both of you, if I might. 
As you've gone back and reviewed this case, was there anything 
specific to the culture, the training, the promotion, the 
supervision, anything about the culture of these two specific 
field offices, Indianapolis in particular, that you think led 
to this shocking and uncharacteristic failure to follow even 
the most basic ethical and policy and procedural guidelines by 
the special agent in charge in this case?
    Inspector General Horowitz. I didn't--my agents pick up 
anything specific to the two offices as a cultural issue there. 
I will say, again going back to the point that I mentioned with 
Senator Feinstein, what concerned me looking at this as a 
former prosecutor is the reluctance or the failure, because I'm 
not sure they really thought about it, of both these offices, 
one that did nothing, one that did something, to actually 
engage with their State and local partners. That is a mindset 
that needs to be changed. You know, I know Director Wray 
believes that as well. To see that in two offices, one of whom 
did actually do something, clearly followed up, was concerning.
    Senator Coons. I look forward to working to reauthorize the 
Victims of Child Abuse Act and to work with you to ensure that 
Federal and State and local law enforcement coordinates as 
effectively as possible and that interviews of victims are 
conducted in a professional and appropriate and a supportive 
way. Thank you for your testimony today.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Klobuchar.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you 
both of you for your work.
    Director Wray, this morning we heard from Aly, McKayla, 
Maggie, and Simone. We saw the incredible courage on display 
under these bright lights, in front of cameras, speaking 
which--with such clarity and determination. Before we talk 
about what went wrong and what's happening--and I know you've 
been mentioning this. I was on the Senate floor. Could you talk 
about more about your personal reaction to what you heard this 
morning, and what you've learned in the course of this 
investigation?
    Director Wray. In some ways, I've run out of adjectives 
and, in other cases, of certain colorful language that would 
not be appropriate for me to use in a congressional hearing 
room. I was heartsick. I was furious. I was outraged. I was 
bewildered because, as I said to a number of your colleagues, 
this is not the FBI that I see every single day, including the 
people who work on this particular program. The kinds of 
failures that are detailed in Inspector General Horowitz's 
report are just beyond the pale. That's why the supervisory 
special agent most responsible for the case has been fired.
    I wish I could go back and change the past of what happened 
in 2015 and 2016. I can't tell you how much I wish I could go 
back and change the past. I can't. What I can do is use the 
painful lessons from this case to make sure every single person 
in the FBI understands what I expect of them, what the American 
people expect of them, so that this never happens again.
    Senator Klobuchar. In your view, what's the most important 
step that the FBI is taking right now in response to the 
Inspector General's findings?
    Director Wray. I would say there--of course, there are a 
whole bunch of things. I think there's a recurring theme 
through the changes that we've implemented in response to 
Inspector General Horowitz's recommendations. The biggest one 
is to ensure that there can't be a single point of failure, 
can't be a single point of failure in terms of reporting to 
State and local law enforcement, can't be a single point of 
failure in terms of transferring cases between field offices, 
can't be a single point of failure in terms of making decisions 
about responding with the appropriate urgency when the 
allegations come in, and so forth. We're amplifying that 
through policies, procedure changes, additional checks, and 
safeguards, training, and some fairly tough talk between me and 
the top 600 people in the FBI.
    Senator Klobuchar. Just along those lines, according to the 
IG report, State and local law enforcement did not receive any 
information from the FBI's Indianapolis or Los Angeles field 
offices about the investigations. The IG report found that the 
prudence--and this is their quote from the report, ``The 
prudence and sound judgment dictated that the LA field office 
should have notified local authorities upon developing the 
serious evidence of sexual assault.'' What steps are you taking 
to ensure that the agents communicate allegations of sexual 
assault with local law enforcement?
    Director Wray. We've--we've enhanced our policies and 
procedures on the specific issue of reporting to State and 
local law enforcement build in--now, they have to document it, 
which they didn't have to before. That builds in, as Inspector 
General Horowitz referred to, an ability to hold them 
accountable. They have to alert their supervisors to there's a 
second set of eyes. That would help. We've also enhanced our 
training to make clear that it's mandatory and that that's 
regardless of whether there's some question about potential 
Federal jurisdiction.
    We can continue to investigate if we--there's Federal 
jurisdiction. We have to, on a parallel track, report the 
appropriate State and local or in some cases social services 
agencies as well.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Last question. For many years, 
I've worked with Senator Cornyn on the Abby Honold Act, due to 
experience of a victim who's been very courageous like the 
victims today and come forward, which would encourage law 
enforcement's use of trauma informed techniques in responding 
to sexual assault crimes to avoid retraumatization of the 
victim and to improve communication between the victim and law 
enforcement, some of which we've talked about today, some of 
which we heard from the gymnasts this morning. Can you describe 
what steps the FBI has taken to ensure that when agents 
interact with victims they're using interview techniques that 
are appropriate, that work, that don't retraumatize them? Does 
the FBI have sufficient resource to support the use of child 
and adolescent forensic interviewers during investigations 
involving minors?
    Director Wray. I appreciate the question. There's--there 
are two pieces of this. One is the child/adolescent forensic 
interviewers which, again, is a very specific discipline, 
requires very specific sensitivities and skill sets. We've 
changed our policies to reinforce the use of those interviewers 
for these kinds of cases. Second, is our Victim Services 
Division. One of the things that we changed, even before 
receiving Inspector General Horowitz's report, on my watch, is 
to make clear that the victims services that we provide, which 
is a little bit different from the forensic interviewing part 
of it, but it's also very important to handling these survivors 
with the appropriate sensitivity, that that is triggered at any 
stage. And there is not just a full investigation, but we're 
in--when we're in the assessment or preassessment phase, it has 
to happen there too.
    The--both the child/adolescent forensic interviewers and 
the victim services, more use of that. As I mentioned in 
response to Senator Feinstein's question, the scale of this 
kind of criminality in the country as reflected by the 18,000 
investigations that we've had over the past 5 years and the 
16,000 arrests that we, with our partners, have made over the 
last five years, I think, goes to your question about 
resources. I can assure you that if the Congress were to see 
fit to give us more resources for those programs, they would 
immediately be able to put to good use.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. This bill I referenced, Mr. 
Chairman, has bipartisan support in the house as well and 
believe it will most likely be part of the Violence Against 
Women Act when we complete that bill. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Klobuchar. Senator 
Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you both 
for being here. I want to thank particularly Mr. Horowitz and 
your entire team for the excellent work that you've done on 
this investigation. Director Wray, I hope you won't 
misinterpret any of my questions as indicating disrespect for 
the FBI or for your position in the FBI and your background as 
a law enforcer, as a professional and career prosecutor.
    You say you've run out of adjectives, but you haven't run 
out of action. The gymnasts who testified earlier really--with 
all due respect to all of us on this Committee, they don't want 
more adjectives. They want action. Part of that action is 
discipline and deterrence. You and I both know because we both 
prosecuted. We look at action by prosecutors as deterrence, as 
changing culture, whether it's incorporations or other 
institutions, like the FBI.
    Let me ask you first. Michael Langeman has been fired. When 
was he fired? Last week?
    Director Wray. I don't have the exact--sorry. I don't have 
the exact date for you. It was within the last--I think it was 
within the last week.
    Senator Blumenthal. Why wasn't he fired earlier?
    Director Wray. We waited until we had the Inspector 
General's report, so we had all the facts. We understood the 
totality as independently investigated of his conduct. Then we 
followed our disciplinary process because one of the things 
that is in keeping with my insistence that everybody in the FBI 
do things in the right way, includes making sure that we follow 
our disciplinary process in the right way. We did that, and 
he's been fired under that process.
    Senator Blumenthal. Someone perhaps more cynical than I 
would have perhaps concluded that it was the hearing here 
staring the FBI in the face that prompted that action. I'm not 
going to go there because I think what's more important than 
the firing is in fact the criminal prosecution. Here, I think 
there are really fundamental issues of fairness and law 
enforcement.
    Mr. Horowitz, your report is so powerful because it lays 
out the lies. For someone who has been a Federal prosecutor, to 
put into a 302 a false statement by a potential witness is so 
bloodcurdling that I can well understand your criminal 
referral. In fact, as you say, the false statement inserted by 
that FBI agent could have been used in a false defense by Larry 
Nassar.
    Inspector General Horowitz. Exactly right. As you heard 
from Ms. Maroney, she laid out the falsity in her testimony. As 
you noted, the key issue that was challenging--challenging 
loosely the Indianapolis office, which really wasn't doing 
much, but the LA office was Nassar's claim defense that he was 
doing a medical procedure.
    Senator Blumenthal. In addition separately--that was 
Michael Langeman--Jay Abbott lied to you, lied to you in the 
course of your investigation of his misconduct. 18 U.S. Code 
Sec. 1001. People get prosecuted for making false statements 
when they applied to a bank, federally insured bank for a 
mortgage. Here is a Federal agent, a former special agent in 
charge of the Indianapolis office, making a material false 
statement to you in your investigation. You referred that for 
criminal prosecution. Did you not?
    Inspector General Horowitz. That's correct.
    Senator Blumenthal. Director Wray, put aside adjectives. If 
I were in your shoes, I would be walking across the street to 
the Attorney General of the United States, and I would be 
saying, ``You need to prosecute.'' Why aren't you doing that?
    Director Wray. I don't want to get into my discussions with 
the Attorney General. I have a lot of respect for him and for 
the privacy of our conversations. I will say that in this 
particular instance the case agents responsible for the 
investigation, as is appropriate, were the Inspector General's 
Office's agents. If they're--as I said in response to an 
earlier question, if there is a way that I can appropriately 
engage on a prosecutive decision, which I'm trying to be very 
careful not to blur my lanes of responsibility. Even though I 
am a former prosecutor, I'm not a current prosecutor. I want to 
be sensitive to that.
    Senator Blumenthal. I know you're not a current prosecutor. 
I'm well aware.
    Director Wray. But----
    Senator Blumenthal. You're respectful----
    Director Wray. [continuing] Yes.
    Senator Blumenthal [continuing]. Of your role. The FBI 
doesn't make decisions about prosecution. You investigate and 
then you refer cases. We both know that very often even at the 
lowly level of the U.S. Attorney--I'm being somewhat facetious 
because I was a U.S. Attorney--FBI agents come pounding on my 
door and say, ``Got to go after this guy. He's dirty. He's a 
bad guy.''
    Director Wray. I've--as a prosecutor, I've had my door 
banged upon in much the same way. We have those kinds of 
discussions all the time with the Department, including the 
Attorney General. I did want to clarify one thing I answered in 
response to one of your earlier questions, which is that the 
supervisory special agent that we fired--that was two weeks 
ago. Just for the record.
    Senator Blumenthal. I'm going to put my prosecutor attorney 
general hat back on and just go through what I saw in Mr. 
Horowitz's excellent report. A lot of the facts known that Jay 
Abbott was in close contact with Stephen Penny, the president 
of USA Gymnastics. They were both trying to make USA Gymnastics 
look better. Jay Abbott was applying for a job with the U.S. 
Olympics Committee. He was on the hunt for employment. He was 
in contact with Stephen Penny and others, and he was lying to 
investigators. There's no statute of limitations here that 
would preclude a prosecution or, in your case, an investigation 
for conspiracy, correct? It's five years.
    Director Wray. Again, I'm not aware of any statute of 
limitations problem here. I would--again, I would defer----
    Senator Blumenthal. No. I would ask you----
    Director Wray [continuing]. To the prosecutors.
    Senator Blumenthal. [continuing] I would ask you--I call on 
you to open an investigation here for potential false 
statement, conspiracy. There are other potential violations. 
There's no preclusion based on statute of limitations. I 
recognize that you don't have the power to prosecute, but you 
do to investigate.
    Director Wray. Just to be clear, in this particular 
instance, under our long-standing arrangement with the 
Inspector General's Office, the Inspector General's Office has 
what we sort of colloquially refer to as the right of first 
refusal as to who's going to take cases of potential criminal 
misconduct and especially by SES level, which the special agent 
in charge would have been, individuals. In this case, 
consistent with that arrangement, the Inspector General's 
Office took on the criminal investigation. That's kind of who 
had that investigation on the theory, I think, in part that it 
will have more credibility to be done by an outside agency so 
that it's not the FBI investigating its own.
    Senator Blumenthal. My time is limited, so I'm not going to 
go through the theories that could be explored by one or the 
other of your offices here to continue to bring to justice and 
accountability the agents, members of the FBI, a special 
supervisory agent, and a former special agent in charge. These 
are experienced agents. They're not a new trainee that might 
have kind of wandered off in the wrong direction. Let me just 
conclude. The people who have to answer here are the Department 
of Justice in a large degree. They declined the prosecution. 
They are not here today. They were invited. We urge them to 
appear. I hope both of you agree that they should be witnesses 
to answer many of the questions we've asked you and you rightly 
have said have to be answered by them. Would you agree?
    Inspector General Horowitz. Look. I--as an independent 
Inspector General, frankly, I'm not going to speak for the 
Department on what they should or shouldn't do in terms of 
testifying before Congress. I--just on the prior questions, I 
would say to you, Senator, I'm happy to have further 
discussions as we've had on these ethics issues. I will say one 
of the things that's apparent from this case and many others 
we've done is 18 U.S.C. Sec.  2000--208, which is the criminal 
ethics statute that you're very familiar with, is a very 
challenging--that's a nice way of putting it--statute. It could 
be made a lot clearer and a lot--and clarify what's illegal and 
what's not. It's--we face this challenge on many occasions in 
our ethics-related work. I'd be happy to obviously chat further 
with you about that.
    Senator Blumenthal. Director Wray?
    Director Wray. My answer is similar. You know, I really 
want to be careful not to speak for the Department or for the 
Committee in its oversight responsibility as to its witnesses 
are. I certainly understand the point of your question.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Thank you both, and I will 
be following up with both of you on these issues. I appreciate 
your testimony today. Thank you.
    Senator Hirono. [Presiding]. Thank you both for being here.
    Director Wray, you testified that you've run out of 
adjectives to really describe the horror that you feel as to 
what happened in this case. Frankly, the sexual assault and 
abuse of girls, women, children--those most vulnerable in our 
society--has been going on since time immemorial. I don't think 
we do a great job of investigating these kinds of crimes. 
Certainly, you know, the military--the sexual assault in the 
military is an ongoing scourge or in law enforcement. We have a 
situation where it's very clear that in your Indianapolis field 
office you had a person in charge there who I think exhibited a 
certain kind of attitude, Mr. Horowitz says a kind of a 
mindset, that I've concluded says that, as far as he was 
concerned, these kinds of crimes were not much of a big deal. 
It was not a big deal. It is really a mindset. I'm glad to 
know, Director Wray, that you do provide specialized training 
for those agents or those people within the FBI who deal with 
these kinds of crimes. That's what you testified, correct?
    Director Wray. Yes, Senator. We have actually a number of 
different kinds of training, one that is mandatory for all 
employees regardless of whether they work these cases, that 
emphasizes their obligation to report abuse even if they're not 
working these kinds of cases. Then the second, which is I think 
what you're referring to, is specifically geared toward people 
who handle these kinds of cases and their supervisors. The new 
training that we've put in place in the wake of the Inspector 
General's report adds into it the lessons learned. It talks 
about all the policies and procedure changes that I've 
testified here today about, but it also talks about the lessons 
learned--the painful lessons learned from this particular case.
    Senator Hirono. Apparently neither Mr. Abbott or the second 
agent in your Indianapolis office had that kind of training, 
correct?
    Director Wray. They had earlier forms of training that 
before I joined the FBI. They didn't have the training 
obviously that we put in place since the report because they're 
both gone.
    Senator Hirono. That's the thing about this kind of 
training that, you know, you don't change hearts and minds 
because somebody goes through this kind of training. That is 
why the kind of follow-up or whatever you put in place to make 
sure that the kind of mindset that that conveys to--to the 
survivors of crimes like this, that whatever happened to them 
is not a big deal or they are not believed. Is it your 
expectation that what you've put in place, the changes you've 
put in place, the kind of training that you provide will 
ensure--let us hope--that all of your agents, all the people 
who are--who are dealing with these kinds of crimes do not 
display that kind of mindset to the survivors?
    Director Wray. Certainly, it's my expectation that people 
will not display the kind of mindset that's reflected in this 
report. The training is an important part of it, but it's not 
the only part of it. Much as Inspector General Horowitz talked 
about how he will follow up, we have additional follow up and 
safeguards. That's why, for example, in addition to the 
training that I've already described, we're putting in place a 
third training that will go by the end of the year, again, to 
every employee in the FBI, that talks about the lessons learned 
from this particular matter.
    That's kind of what I was trying to get at in my opening 
statement. We want to take the pain that occurred here and use 
it as a catalyst to teach people the importance of doing the 
work in the right way, to teach them what is riding--in real 
heart-wrenching human terms--what's at stake in getting the job 
done right.
    I think that's part of it. I will say that one of my 
biggest frustrations in this is that I spent a lot of time and 
have throughout my career working with FBI agents, analysts, 
and professional staff who do these kinds of cases. What you 
see in this report is not what I see from these people. The 
people I see don't want to go home at night. They're afraid 
that in the one-hour of sleep they get that that's going to be 
the one-hour that some other child is victimized. It's a--it's 
the conscientiousness that most of the people who work these 
cases display is so far removed from what Inspector General 
Horowitz found in the Indianapolis example----
    Senator Hirono. Yes.
    Director Wray [continuing]. That it boggles the mind. We're 
going to make darn sure that it doesn't happen again.
    Senator Hirono. Okay. One of the ways that I hope that you 
determine whether you're training works is to get feedback from 
the people, the survivors, or the people that your people are 
engaging with or questioning as to whether or not--to get a 
sense of how they have been treated, how their allegations have 
been dealt with. Do you do that kind of follow-up?
    Director Wray. We do it--I guess I would say we do it 
informally through the uses of two types personnel, both of 
which I have made reference to here today. We have the child/
adolescent forensic interviewers who again are interviewers who 
are specially trained for this particular type of case with all 
the sensitivities that that requires, and then we have our 
victim services personnel which are not interviewers but are 
designed to provide support, help connect victims to other 
services, et cetera. Through those conversations with the 
victims, that's how we learn whether or not we're doing the job 
right.
    Senator Hirono. Do you think that that is an accurate way 
to measure whether the kind of specialized training that needs 
to happen in dealing with these kinds of cases, sexual assault, 
sexual abuse cases--do you think that's adequate feedback for 
you?
    Director Wray. I think--I think it's a good way to get 
firsthand impressions from survivors as to--about their 
interaction with our people. That in turn should be fed into 
whether or not the training is working, but it also goes into 
our policies, our procedures, everything else as well.
    Senator Hirono. Because this is all in the context of these 
kinds of crimes are vastly underreported. You would agree with 
that. Then, so, it's a particularly traumatizing area of crimes 
I would say. Therefore, you do need specialized training and I 
commend you for doing that. I also want to make sure that that 
training is actually sinking in because you don't change 
attitudes and a culture of--where one of our people who 
testified said normalization of abuse. When she said that, it 
really struck me that that was a--what was going on in their 
lives and their experience with this horrible person. I see 
that Senator Cornyn is here. Please go ahead. Thank you.
    Senator Cornyn. Inspector General Horowitz, Director Wray, 
I just have a few questions. I know you testified at some 
length. Given the conflicting assignments that many Members 
have, I may ask you to repeat some things you've said earlier. 
Let me just ask Director Wray. How many people work for the 
FBI?
    Director Wray. We have roughly 37,000 employees.
    Senator Cornyn. Do you have real-time knowledge of 
everything they're doing?
    Director Wray. No.
    Senator Cornyn. You do understand that, like all leaders, 
the buck stops with you.
    Director Wray. I understand that I am ultimately 
accountable for us as an enterprise. Yes, sir.
    Senator Cornyn. I guess the--one of the things that 
concerns me the most about this incidents and when things like 
this happen at the line--FBI agent level is the difficulty, the 
challenges that you as the director have or that management has 
actually knowing what's going on on a real-time basis. You--I 
imagine you depend on the chain of command and those 
subordinates below you to provide you the information that you 
as the director would need.
    To me, the thing that I think most people watching this 
hearing might wonder, certainly I do, is that if these elite 
athletes, people whose names average Americans and people 
around the world know, if their allegations of sexual assault 
are not taken seriously in an investigation of this nature, how 
can they have confidence that if something like this were to 
happen to them or their family or their loved one, that those 
allegations would be taken seriously? Have you given that some 
thought? If you have, please tell me what your answer is.
    Director Wray. I understand all too well that the FBI 
depends on the trust of the American people, including in, 
particular, survivors of this kind of horrific criminality, and 
depends on that trust for them to come forward, and to have 
confidence that their reports are going to be thoroughly and 
aggressively investigated. I wish I could wave a magic wand and 
change what happened back in 2015 and 2016. I can't much as I 
wish it were otherwise. What I can do is show the American 
people, and make sure that our people show the American people, 
that through the way we do our work, through the changes--the 
significant changes that we've put in place on my watch, 
adopting all the Inspector General's recommendations, building 
in double checks, triple checks, quadruple checks in certain 
instances, firing individuals where we can, that we are worthy 
of that trust.
    I understand we're going to have to earn that trust. I will 
say, as I've said to a few of your colleagues, that what I see 
in this report is not representative of the incredible 
conscientiousness, compassion, and almost ferocious dedication 
that I see from even within the FBI the people who work these 
kinds of cases. My hope is that those people will be able to 
help me prove to the American people that we're worthy of their 
trust.
    Senator Cornyn. Inspector General Horowitz, were some of 
the agents, FBI employees referred for criminal prosecution--
potential criminal prosecution to the Department of Justice?
    Inspector General Horowitz. There were two agents whose 
conduct was referred.
    Senator Cornyn. Have there been any prosecutions of those 
agents?
    Inspector General Horowitz. There have not been.
    Senator Cornyn. I wonder both the--maybe go back to 
Director Wray again. I think what people want to see not only 
is the recognition of the mistakes that were made and a 
commitment to do something to make sure that those are not 
repeated, but they also want to know that there is 
accountability. Do you know why the Department of Justice has 
declined to prosecute those two agents?
    Director Wray. As I said, that's a decision by the Justice 
Department in response to the investigation done by the 
Inspector General. I don't know the answer to that. I have done 
what I can do, which is to have fired the supervisory special 
agent who is featured so prominently in the report. I wish 
there were action I could take with the special agent in 
charge, but he retired before this review commenced.
    Senator Cornyn. You don't have jurisdiction anymore once he 
retires to----
    Director Wray. From a--well, there's nothing disciplinary 
we can do really after somebody has left the Bureau. That's 
been a frustration of mine, but I understand that's the reality 
of the system.
    Senator Cornyn. I'm thinking, as we're sitting here, about 
other Inspector General reports that Inspector General Horowitz 
has issued on the Crossfire Hurricane scandal. You know, I 
think part of the--part of the problem is that people see 
repeated instances where there's misconduct but then no real 
accountability. I understand what you're telling me that once 
an agent retires there's nothing with your jurisdiction you can 
do.
    We are left here with a request for the Department of 
Justice to come testify--Deputy AG Monaco, apparently she's 
declined to do so--to answer questions, and so the American 
people and these victims of sexual assault are left to wonder 
whether their claims are really being taken seriously if there 
is simply a declination by the Department of Justice to 
prosecute and no real willingness to come explain the rationale 
for that or why there isn't some accountability where 
accountability can be had.
    I'm not sure exactly what to do about that. You can 
understand, certainly, the frustration that we all feel when 
there is the sense that justice has not been done. Let me be 
clear as others have and as you and I have discussed, Director 
Wray. I believe the FBI is the gold standard when it comes to 
law enforcement agencies, and it really breaks my heart to see 
an agency that tries--that does so much good on a daily basis 
for so many people--that its reputation is besmirched by a 
handful of people who go off the rails. Then the sense is left 
that, well, they were never ultimately held accountable for 
what has happened. It just--I think it leaves all of us sort of 
looking for other things we might be able to do.
    Look, I think we all experience tragedies and like this, 
other examples you could think of, loss of life of the Marine 
that I--whose funeral I attended on Monday in Laredo, Texas, 
who was killed in the terrorist attack in Kabul. Other times 
that I and others have had an opportunity to meet with and 
grieve with families who've been, through no fault of their 
own, a victim of some unjust act or incident. The one--the one 
thing that it boils down to is if we can tell them and if 
they--it's actually a credible statement, and they actually 
believe that they have not suffered in vain or that their loved 
one has not lost their life in vain, that somewhere somehow 
something good will come out of this in terms of the protection 
of people in the future, that that a--is maybe a slender reed 
for them to hold onto. That is maybe the only hope that we can 
offer out of a tragedy like this. Do you have any thoughts 
about that?
    Director Wray. I do, Senator. I too, of course, believe the 
FBI is the gold standard. Part of what I think gives us the 
brand that we have after 113 years is not that we're flawless. 
We have made some real doozies of mistakes over 113 years. Part 
of what makes I think any high-performing organization high-
performing is not that it never fails but that it learns from 
its failures. What I would say to those women is that I am so 
deeply sorry for what our folks did and more importantly didn't 
do back in 2015 and 2016. They deserved so much better than 
what they got.
    What I will say, which is the best thing I can do now as 
the director now, is to make sure that we use their courage in 
coming forward, the pain that was caused here, to use it 
constructively, as you say, to have something good come out of 
it. That is all the changes that we've made in response. As I 
said in my opening statement, I and my leadership team are 
determined to make sure everybody in the FBI is focused on 
learning from this so that it doesn't happen again.
    Senator Cornyn. Inspector General Horowitz, my impression 
of the work--your work in your Office has been that it is a 
high quality, professional operation, and my congratulations. 
Unfortunately, the product of your professionalism and your 
Office's good work is to expose some pretty ugly things. Again, 
I'm thinking back over Crossfire Hurricane, and the abuses that 
occurred in the context of that investigation, and now this 
one. Do you have some thoughts you can share with us on the 
role of the Inspector General in uncovering this information 
and what that means in terms of the FBI's ability to learn from 
these mistakes, and correct them, and prevent their repetition?
    Inspector General Horowitz. Absolutely, Senator. Obviously, 
appreciate your strong support for our Office and the work that 
we do. Over the years, we issued many high-profile reports. As 
you know from our interactions, many reports that never make 
the front pages or any pages but are critical to reforming 
Government, making changes that need to occur, and we got 
jurisdiction over the FBI back in 2001 and 2002, when Attorney 
General Ashcroft ordered that after the spy scandals that had 
hit the FBI.
    I think while it puts forth obviously some very concerning 
situations at times, as Director Wray indicated by our being 
able to go in independently and look at these events and report 
on them, the benefit is we are able to shine the light on that, 
show transparency, allow Director Wray and his leadership team 
to see what had occurred and allow them to make the changes 
that they're making, and we're--I can say we're fortunate, the 
OIG, to have--to be working with Director Wray and his 
leadership team who have, in my experience in the few years 
he's been director, have always taken our recommendations to 
heart and has moved forward.
    You know, as I said earlier, as much as we rely on that 
kind of commitment, we're also there though, as he knows, to go 
in independently still afterwards and say, ``All right. We 
heard this is what you did. Now, what do we think of that?'' 
Then we report to you and to them. The public can know that 
that follow-up's going to occur. This isn't the end of our 
work, not in the least. It's not the end of the FBI's work as 
you heard from the Director. It's not the ends of ours.
    We're going to go back once they've reported to us what 
they've done formally in all of the steps we've asked them to 
do and others that they say they are doing. We've already 
gotten informal reports in that regard. Then we'll go back, and 
we will write up ourselves and document what our thinking is, 
report to them. We are still--just to give a sense to the 
public, and I know you know this. It's now almost 20 years. 
It's our various post--immediate post-Patriot Act reforms from 
the early 2000's, and we're still doing follow-up on some of 
those reports. The FBI's made important steps forward, and we 
add additional layers. We keep following up, and we will keep 
working on this. We will make sure that the structural reforms 
that need to occur--that we think need to occur, our 
independent judgment, will happen. Obviously, Director Wray and 
his leadership team are responsible from a management 
standpoint in making that occur.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you very much.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Senator Cornyn. You owe me five 
minutes. I'd like to call on Senator Ossoff to ask us questions 
remotely.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, 
Inspector General Horowitz, Director Wray for joining us. Thank 
you in particular, Mr. Inspector General, for your and your 
team's diligent work to ascertain these facts.
    Could you please elaborate on the nature of the discussions 
between Mr. Abbott and Mr. Penny regarding potential employment 
for Mr. Abbott at institutions associated with USA Gymnastics 
or the U.S. Olympic Committee?
    Inspector General Horowitz. I can. They began, as I 
mentioned, in a discussion that they had when they met at a bar 
in 2015, where Mr. Penny and Mr. Abbott discussed a future job 
opening, head of security at the U.S. Olympic Committee, that 
Mr. Abbott expected--I'm--Mr. Penny expected to occur. That 
initial discussion led to Mr. Abbott's interest in the 
position. Then there are ongoing discussions between the two of 
them as we outline in the report in emails that we've seen, 
where Mr. Abbott expresses his interest in the job and, equally 
troubling, acknowledges that it would be inappropriate for him 
and a conflict of interest for him to pursue the position 
because of the ongoing Nassar investigation. Yet, as we found 
in 2017, that is precisely what he did in applying for the job 
which he was never ultimately interviewed for.
    Senator Ossoff. Who initiated the discussion about 
employment prospects? Was that an opportunity dangled by Mr. 
Penny or was it solicited by Mr. Abbott?
    Inspector General Horowitz. That was a opportunity 
mentioned first by Mr. Penny because of his understanding that 
there might be a future retirement or an upcoming retirement at 
the U.S. Olympic Committee.
    Senator Ossoff. Just to be clear, Mr. Penny, the chief 
executive at USA Gymnastics, while there is an ongoing FBI 
inquiry into gross misconduct, criminal activity, and sexual 
abuse by at least one USA Gymnastics employee, raises with the 
special agent in charge at the field office that is steering 
this investigation, the prospect of potentially lucrative and 
prestigious employment at a parallel organization where Mr. 
Penny may have influence. Is that correct?
    Inspector General Horowitz. That's correct. At the same 
time, writing in emails, for example, how he's looking for 
additional information about the Nassar investigation and 
events as they occur.
    Senator Ossoff. Is it within your jurisdiction, Mr. 
Inspector General, to make referrals for potential prosecution 
to the Department of Justice with respect to personnel outside 
of the Department of Justice components that you oversee?
    Inspector General Horowitz. It would not be except in the 
case where perhaps they were, for example, in--this occurs in a 
prison context where they are bringing in contraband working 
with a BOP employee. It--those would be instances where we 
might.
    Senator Ossoff. Did you make any referral to DOJ 
specifically with respect to Mr. Penny and his conduct in this 
case that is, again, to restate it because it is truly shocking 
to state it in bare and clear terms, dangling employment 
prospects to the special agent in charge at the Indianapolis 
field office, who is at least supposed to be leading the 
investigation of sexual abuse by USA Gymnastic personnel?
    Inspector General Horowitz. We did not. Let me just explain 
why we did not in that case, and the challenge on Mr. Abbott 
with regard to the criminal issue here, which is 18 U.S.C. 
Sec.  208, which is the Federal criminal statute is a--I think 
I mentioned this earlier--challenging one and that's being 
generous with speaking about how its written, to determine 
whether there was a criminal violation. The challenge here 
was--and I'm focused on the law here as to how 208 is. Because 
Mr. Abbott was looking for a job at the U.S. Olympic Committee, 
and Mr. Penny was employed by the US Gymnastics Federation 
Association, two different entities, that situation is not 
clearly covered by 208, no matter how clear it would be to a 
layperson the interactions between those two entities.
    Senator Ossoff. I want to explore that further with you and 
the process by which you make a determination about a potential 
criminal referral for an individual such as Mr. Penny or for 
Mr. Abbott in this case and certainly willing to have ongoing 
discussions with you about whether or not that statute needs to 
be modified where, in my view, based upon the facts that you've 
laid out in your report and testified to today, this is clearly 
something that should not just be contrary to FBI's code of 
conduct, but merits serious consideration of criminal 
prosecution for both parties to a discussion so obviously 
inappropriate. If it's not illegal, it should be illegal. I 
suspect it already is illegal. We'll need to look seriously at 
what criminal statutes may have been violated by Mr. Abbott and 
Mr. Penny in having those disgusting discussions in the midst 
of this FBI inquiry. It brings me to another point I want to 
raise here which is there's been much discussion about----
    Senator Hirono. Excuse me, Senator. Senator. I----
    Senator Ossoff. Yes.
    Senator Hirono. I understand that Director Wray has a hard 
stop after your five minutes of questioning. If you have any 
particular questions for him, could you put those for the 
record and then you can proceed with your questions of Mr. 
Horowitz, if you care to. Thank you very much, Director Wray.
    Director Wray. Thank you, Senator. I'd be happy to take 
your questions as a follow-up in writing. Thank you for your 
indulgence.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you. Senator Ossoff, please proceed.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Director Wray. Yes. Thank you, 
Madam Chair.
    Inspector General Horowitz, you've made a number of 
meritorious and thorough recommendations for reform. It's our 
understanding based upon Director Wray's testimony today that 
many or all of them he intends to or is in the process of 
implementing. However, here's my concern. Almost all of this 
conduct already violated FBI policies and procedures. Reform of 
rules, processes, and procedures clearly warranted and worthy 
of intense scrutiny and consideration, but reform without 
accountability is inadequate. These personnel already violated 
FBI policy. My question for you is and what we've heard 
Director Wray State several times today that he doesn't believe 
he has any recourse for disciplinary action with respect to 
these individuals beyond the date of their termination or 
retirement.
    Have you and your team looked at what disciplinary and 
personnel prerogatives, processes, regulations may need to be 
changed so that there can be accountability? Look, we've talked 
a lot about what DOJ is going to do. We need to look carefully 
at whether DOJ is going to enforce the law here. In my view, 
they must enforce the law here given the gross misconduct and 
apparently illegal activity.
    Within the spectrum of what the FBI can do independently, 
their inability to impose any accountability past the date of 
termination or retirement seems like a major weakness in the 
personnel management system that undermines the ability of 
someone like Director Wray to deter and punish misconduct 
that's discovered after someone leaves the Bureau. Your 
thoughts, please.
    Inspector General Horowitz. Yes. Senator, I agree. I 
completely understand the frustration as an organization at the 
IG's Office that frequently faces this challenge of 
investigating people who immediately retire upon being 
investigated and go take their pensions and go off. We finish 
our work. We finalize our reports, but then there's no 
administrative consequences in the administrative context. 
There may or may not be criminal consequences depending upon 
the nature of the violation. I'd be very pleased to sit with 
you and your staff and your team to talk about those issues, as 
well the need to look at the ethics laws on the criminal side 
208 of the Title 18 because there is work to be done there. I 
couldn't agree with you more.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you. Let's sit down and have that--
this discussion shortly. I want to thank you as well for your 
close collaboration with my team as we've built what I hope 
will be bipartisan and successful legislation to reform 
practices at the Bureau of Prisons. I have--Madam Chair, if 
you'll indulge me just one final question for the Inspector 
General, which is whether a full and deep review of these 
services and disciplinary records for Mr. Abbott and for his 
subordinates similarly implicated in misconduct or negligent 
conduct was undertaken to ascertain whether someone who 
demonstrated such terrible judgment and such a lack of 
professionalism may have done other damage, broken other rules 
or laws earlier in their career.
    Inspector General Horowitz. What we would do in all of our 
matters is look to see if we had any prior allegations against 
the individual. Beyond that, we would not, in a case like this, 
normally go back into earlier points in time, Senator. Frankly, 
with our staffing and our personnel, we just don't have that 
ability to go beyond what we have in front of us and what we've 
seen before in terms of allegations.
    Senator Ossoff. The offenses that you established in your 
investigation are so severe and such an indictment of Mr. 
Abbott's character and judgment that I would submit to you and 
whoever the relevant personnel at FBI or DOJ are, that there 
needs to be a full review of his service record to determine 
whether or not there are others who have been harmed by his 
inability to conduct himself within the bounds of regulation, 
professionalism, and law.
    Thank you, Mr. Inspector General as always----
    Inspector General Horowitz. Thank you.
    Senator Ossoff [continuing]. For your diligent work and 
your testimony today.
    Inspector General Horowitz. Right. Thank you, Senator. Very 
much appreciate it.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Horowitz. The hearing is 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 2:09 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]


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