[Senate Hearing 117-829]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 117-829

                 AMERICA UNDER CYBER SIEGE: PREVENTING
                  AND RESPONDING TO RANSOMWARE ATTACKS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             JULY 27, 2021

                               __________

                          Serial No. J-117-30

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
         
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                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                   RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont            CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa, Ranking 
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California             Member
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             JOHN CORNYN, Texas
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      TED CRUZ, Texas
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              BEN SASSE, Nebraska
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
ALEX PADILLA, California             TOM COTTON, Arkansas
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
                                     THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                     MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
             Joseph Zogby, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
      Kolan L. Davis, Republican Chief Counsel and Staff Director
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page

Durbin, Hon. Richard J...........................................     1
Grassley, Hon. Charles E.........................................     3
Feinstein, Hon. Dianne...........................................     4

                               WITNESSES

Downing, Richard W...............................................     5
    Prepared statement...........................................    39
    Responses to written questions...............................    85
Goldstein, Eric..................................................     8
    Prepared statement...........................................    55
    Responses to written questions...............................    99
Sheridan, Jeremy.................................................    10
    Prepared statement...........................................    62
    Responses to written questions...............................   113
Vorndran, Bryan A................................................     6
    Prepared statement...........................................    69
    Questions submitted with no response returned................    79


                                APPENDIX

Items submitted for the record...................................   171

 
                 AMERICA UNDER CYBER SIEGE: PREVENTING
                  AND RESPONDING TO RANSOMWARE ATTACKS

                              ----------                              


                         TUESDAY, JULY 27, 2021

                              Unites States Senate,
                                Committee on the Judiciary,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in Room 
226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J. Durbin, 
Chair of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Feinstein, 
Whitehouse, Klobuchar, Coons, Blumenthal, Hirono, Booker, 
Ossoff, Grassley, Graham, Cornyn, Cruz, Sasse, Hawley, Cotton, 
Tillis, and Blackburn.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,

           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

    Chair Durbin. The hearing will come to order. Today, the 
Committee will discuss the growing number of ransomware attacks 
which are increasingly disrupting our economy and our lives. 
Today's hearing is the first ever Full Committee hearing of the 
Judiciary Committee on ransomware. Marks the first 
congressional testimony this year by the Justice Department and 
FBI on this threat.
    Majority Leader Schumer asked the Senate Committees to 
review how the agencies under their jurisdiction are responding 
to the ransomware threat. Ranking Member Grassley also 
requested today's hearing, and we consulted with his staff on 
choosing the witness panel. We'll hear from a panel of experts 
from the Department of Justice, the FBI, Cybersecurity and 
Infrastructure Security Agency, a.k.a. CISA, I believe, and the 
Secret Service.
    They will discuss the scope of the threat and what the 
agencies are doing to prevent it. They'll also provide guidance 
on best practices on how businesses and organizations can 
protect themselves. Before we get started, I'd like to turn to 
a brief video that gives us a sense of the ransomware threat.
    [Video is shown.]
    Chair Durbin. It's about more than money and inconvenience. 
The harm of ransomware can affect real lives. An example: On 
October 28th of last year, an oncology nurse named Colleen 
Kargil was preparing a patient for a chemotherapy infusion when 
she made an unsettling discovery. She couldn't log in to her 
computer. Every time she typed in her credentials, the system 
would boot her out. She tried logging in from a back-up 
computer. That didn't work either. Instead, she was greeted by 
a red circle with a diagonal line drawn through it.
    At that moment, she realized that her hospital, the largest 
medical system in the State of Vermont, had been infiltrated. 
The network had been shut down. The hackers behind the attack 
were holding the hospital's data hostage, which meant Colleen 
and her colleagues couldn't access patient data for their 
cancer patients. They had to try to recreate patient 
chemotherapy protocols from memory and copies of old faxes. The 
hospital's electronic medical system would remain offline for 
nearly a month.
    Colleen told the New York Times those weeks were the worst 
of her life. She's not alone. Colleen and her patients are just 
a few of the many Americans who've been victimized by 
ransomware attacks.
    Nearly every organization and industry is vulnerable. 
Hospitals, school districts, local governments, nonprofits, 
businesses large and small. Here's how it works: Hackers break 
into your computer system, lock up your data, demand a ransom 
payment, often through untraceable cryptocurrency, for the 
return of the data. Though any person or entity can be targeted 
in a ransomware attack, it's been estimated that small 
businesses make up over half of the victims.
    These attacks can have permanent damage. Last year, it took 
an average of 9 months for a business to fully recover from a 
ransomware attack. Even the biggest and most profitable 
companies in the world are at risk. Earlier this year, we 
remember the cybercrime syndicate knocking out Colonial 
Pipeline, the largest pipeline operator in the United States. 
That shutdown sparked a nationwide panic that had customers 
waiting in line at gas stations for hours. The incident brought 
the ransomware attack into plain view.
    They're becoming more frequent, more destructive. The tools 
needed to commit them are easily accessible. Last year, global 
ransom payments reached $350 million. A recent New Yorker piece 
talked about the average payment for ransomware; 2018, average 
payment, $7,000. 2019, $41,000; 2020, somewhere between $200 
and $300,000.
    In recent months, barely a day has gone by without news of 
a ransomware attack. By one estimate, American businesses, 
healthcare facilities and organizations and State and local 
governments are projected to endure more than 65,000 ransomware 
attacks this year alone.
    This is a criminal business model that is spreading. If 
someone wants to commit an attack, they can easily purchase or 
lease ready-to-use ransomware. According to one expert, it's 
quote ``way too easy to get into this. Just hire it out.'' 
There's been an incredible commoditization of the entire 
process. I'm concerned, as well, that ransomware criminals 
often operate with impunity in Russia and other nations. Those 
nations are unwilling to prosecute or pursue the evildoers.
    We need to attack this new reality. We need new protocols 
for preventing and responds--responding to ransomware attacks. 
The President understands it. His administration is taking a 
whole-of-Government approach to prevent, deter, and respond. 
They recently launched a cross-Government task force to 
coordinate offensive and defensive measures against these 
attacks and to help businesses. The administration also 
launched stopransomeware.gov, a new website that provides one 
central location for ransomware resources.
    These efforts are welcome because when it comes to 
ransomware, it's not just our money that's at stake. It's 
sensitive information, a personal sense of security, and, 
truthfully, our Nation's security. It's a critical challenge, 
and this Committee will do its part to meet it, starting with 
today's hearing. I turn to my friend and Ranking Member, Chuck 
Grassley.

             STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES E. GRASSLEY,

             A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF IOWA

    Senator Grassley. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, for holding 
this hearing. I thank you for agreeing--I'd better turn this 
off. I thank you for agreeing to hold this hearing, an 
important bipartisan hearing on a problem of ransomware. You 
hear about it every day. I've appreciated working with you on 
this subject and look forward to continuing to work if we 
decide that legislation is necessary.
    The threat that we face from ransomware is increasing. 
Criminal actors are using techniques like phishing emails to 
gain access to data of business, nonprofit or government. The 
criminal actors then lock the data down and demand a large 
ransom. Usually very difficult to trace. Virtual currency like 
Bitcoin is used to pay for it. Yet paying the ransom is no 
guarantee that the victim will have their data returned, and 
that they will not be victimized again and asked to pay yet 
another ransom.
    Earlier this year, we had FBI director, Chris Wray, compare 
the challenge of fighting ransomware to those we faced after 9/
11. Estimates on the amount of ransom paid in 2020 ran into the 
hundreds of millions of dollars. Ransomware has targeted 
schools, local governments, and during this pandemic, can you 
believe it, even hospitals and healthcare providers.
    In May, two massive ransomware attacks hit a critical 
supply of gas, the Colonial Pipeline and a major supplier of 
meat, the JBS slaughtering operation. These events created very 
disturbing questions about the security of our supply of 
essential goods like fuels and food.
    Since that time, I've received questions from many Iowans 
about what we can do as a nation and as individuals to fight 
the threat of ransomware. This hearing will help us answer 
those questions.
    Ransomware does not just affect the deeper pockets of large 
companies like Colonial Pipeline and JBS. An estimated three 
out of every four victims of ransomware is a small business. 
Small businesses already operate on thin margins, and many have 
been pushed to a brink by the pandemic. I'm glad that we'll be 
hearing today what Government agencies like Cybersecurity and 
Infrastructure Security Agency at the Department of Homeland 
Security can do to help small business owners to practice good 
cyber protection to avoid ransomware attacks.
    We will also be hearing which investigators like FBI and 
the Secret Service can do for those who have been victimized. 
Ransomware often originates from countries with permissive law 
enforcement environments that allow these cybercriminals to 
flourish. So-called ransomware as a service is a business 
model--can you believe that? Employed by Congress--criminal 
networks, such as Dark Side and Revil. Dark Side and Revil are 
behind many of the recent acts--recent attacks.
    These criminal organizations work like illicit software 
providers, creating ransomware and leasing it to other criminal 
actors like--known as affiliates for a share of the profits. We 
will be hearing from the Department of Justice how these 
criminal actors can be targeted and punished.
    The situation would be dire enough if ransomware was used 
only by sophisticated criminal actors in countries unwilling to 
help bring them to justice. However, just last week, the Biden 
administration and many countries which are allies of the 
United States formally blamed China for a massive hack of 
Microsoft Exchange email servers. Hackers operating under the 
umbrella of China's own Ministry of State Security appeared to 
have used the hack to engage in ransomware schemes for their 
own profit. They will have extorted millions in ransom from our 
own U.S. victims.
    I have spoken many times on the dangers of cyberattacks, 
theft of intellectual property, and other aggressive behavior 
by China. I fear that ransomware will be a new method used by 
the Chinese Communist Party against Americans and I will be 
pursuing opportunities to combat that danger. I look forward to 
hearing the testimony about what the executive branch agencies 
are doing to fight ransomware and what we as a country can do, 
and I thank all of our witnesses for attending.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Grassley. Senator Feinstein 
asked to say a few words.

              STATEMENT OF HON. DIANNE FEINSTEIN,

          A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

    Senator Feinstein. Yes. Just a brief comment, Mr. Chairman. 
I've been on this Committee a long time. It's really not often 
that you pick up your binder and something in it immediate 
alerts you. Ransomware immediately alerts me to a real problem. 
We've had 2,474 complaints related to them presented to the 
FBI, and all I wanted to say is that I think we've got to take 
this very seriously and pass some legislation to deal with it. 
Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. I want to thank this 
panel of four witnesses. We have extraordinary career Federal 
employees who are involved in pursuing this issue.
    Richard Downing served since 2015 as the Deputy Assistant 
Attorney General for the Criminal Division in the Department of 
Justice. He oversees the work of the Criminal Division's 
computer crime and intellectual property section, child 
exploitations, obscenity section.
    Bryan Vorndran is appointed Assistant Director for the 
FBI's Cyber Division in March. Previously Deputy Assistant 
Director of Criminal Investigation, the Assistant Special Agent 
in charge of cyber and counter-intelligence programs in 
Baltimore.
    Eric Goldstein, appointed in February as the Executive 
Assistant Director for Cybersecurity at the Cybersecurity and 
Infrastructure Security Agency within the Department of 
Homeland Security.
    Finally, Jeremy Sheridan, appointed in April as the 
Assistant Director of the Office of Investigations at the 
United States Secret Service.
    Each witness will have 5 minutes, and then there will be 
follow-up questions asked for 5 minutes by each member of the 
panel. We start this off with swearing in the witnesses. Ask 
you all please rise. Raise your right hand.
    [Witnesses are sworn in.]
    Chair Durbin. May the record reflect that the witnesses 
agreed in the affirmative. Mr. Downing, you're first up.

            STATEMENT OF RICHARD W. DOWNING, DEPUTY

         ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIMINAL DIVISION,

           U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. Downing. Good morning, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Grassley, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to testify about the Department of Justice's 
efforts against ransomware.
    I'd like to emphasize three themes from my statement for 
the record. First, ransomware is a very serious problem, but it 
is also a tough problem to solve. Second, the Department has 
had some recent successes in addressing that problem, but we 
are redoubling our efforts. Third, Congress can help.
    The ransomware attacks over the past months have made it 
very clear that ransomware is a serious threat to our public 
safety and our national and economic security. It has been used 
to attack governments, police departments, and even hospitals 
during the pandemic. The number of attacks and the size of 
demands has skyrocketed in the last year. Some demands now 
exceed $50 million. Even worse, many actors now steal 
information from victims, like trade secrets or client files, 
and release that information on the internet if the ransom is 
not paid.
    A number of factors make it hard to solve this problem in 
the way that we might normally address a crime problem. 
Ransomware attacks are often committed by offenders outside our 
borders. Investigators often need to make requests for 
assistance to foreign law enforcement agencies to gather 
evidence in other countries, a process that can be cumbersome 
and time-consuming. Countries like Russia have refused to 
extradite offenders living within their borders or prosecute 
them themselves.
    To make matters worse, many of these crimes involve 
anonymizing technologies, such as the Tor network and 
anonymity-enhanced cryptocurrencies, making it hard to identify 
perpetrators.
    Finally, investigations are hindered because many victim 
companies choose not to report to Federal authorities. I'll 
touch on this more in a moment.
    Despite these difficulties, we have had some recent 
successes, and we're keenly focused on doing more. In May, most 
of the ransom paid by the Colonial Pipeline was recovered. In 
January, the United States, Canada, and Bulgaria disrupted 
NetWalker, a ransomware variant that was used to attack 
hospitals during the pandemic. Also in January, the Department 
and international partners disrupted Emotet, a Botnet that was 
used to send ransomware to victim computers.
    We are not resting on these laurels. Department leadership 
created a ransomware and digital exploitation task force to 
focus attention on this problem. This task force will help to 
make sure that the Department is doing all it can to arrest 
offenders and disrupt their crimes, as well as to assure robust 
coordination with partners across the Federal Government and 
within the private sector. It is a key part of what must be a 
whole-of-Government solution. We are committed to working with 
partner agencies across the executive branch to address the 
threat.
    What can Congress do to help? First and foremost, we face a 
gap in reporting from victims. Without prompt reporting, 
investigative opportunities are lost. Our ability to assist 
other victims facing the same attacks is degraded, and the 
Government and Congress does not have a full picture of the 
threat facing American companies. Congress should enact 
legislation to require victims to report.
    We recommend that a reporting requirement include 
ransomware attacks, critical infrastructure attacks and other 
high impact breaches. We think reports should be prompt and 
should include details about any ransom demand or payment. 
Legislation should designate a single point where victims can 
file reports, with immediate sharing to all Federal--relevant 
Federal agencies. Victims should not be worse off for helping 
the Government. They should maintain whatever legal privilege 
they had on that information prior to sharing the information.
    Finally, we would ask Congress to enact legislation that 
would help the Department disrupt ransomware and mass hacking. 
This legislation would give courts the authority to enjoin 
ransomware and botnets affecting 100 or more computers. Our 
proposal also contains other helpful amendments that would 
enhance our ability to charge offenders and disrupt attacks.
    I want to thank the Committee again for providing me the 
opportunity to discuss these important issues, and I'm happy to 
answer your questions when that time comes. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Downing appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Mr. Downing. Mr. Vorndran.

           STATEMENT OF BRYAN A. VORNDRAN, ASSISTANT

            DIRECTOR, CYBER DIVISION, FEDERAL BUREAU

                OF INVESTIGATION, WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. Vorndran. Good morning, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Grassley, and Members of this Committee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to be here to represent the FBI in our cyber 
program, and to sit with our Federal partners as a unified 
front against this growing ransomware threat in the country.
    As you know, this hearing comes at an important time. Your 
title says it all. As the cyber community learns from past 
incidents and works to ensure all the Nation's people, 
companies, and levels of government are protected from future 
ransomware attacks.
    At the FBI, we've been sounding the alarm on ransomware for 
some time now. The 5-year cyber strategy Director Wray 
announced last year gives us a road map to continue to mitigate 
this threat. Using this strategy, our goal is to not only 
pursue our own actions, but also work seamlessly with our 
domestic and international partners to defend our networks, 
attribute malicious activity, sanction bad behavior, and take 
the fight to our adversaries overseas. Our success relies on 
our ability together to impose risk and consequences on 
malicious cyber actors, and to do so through joint operations 
sequence for maximum, durable impact.
    We have to target the entire criminal ecosystem, including 
malware developers, money launderers, and shady infrastructure 
providers, and bring together the insight of Government 
partners, cyber security firms, service providers, and victims 
in this common fight.
    Two successes made possible by our cyber strategy were the 
recent Emotet and NetWalker disruptions, as mentioned by Mr. 
Downing. In January, in coordination with the Intelligence 
Community, an unprecedented number of foreign law enforcement 
partners in the private sector, we disrupted Emotet, one of the 
longest lasting, costly, and sophisticated cybercrime services.
    In the 9-months leading up to the takedown, it's estimated 
Emotet caused hundreds of millions of dollars in damage and 
infected more that 1.6 million computers. That same month, we 
also worked with international partners to disrupt the 
NetWalker ransomware variant, which had been responsible for 
impacting numerous victim companies, municipalities, and 
schools. As part of that operation, we obtained Federal 
charges, a subject was arrested, and we seized nearly $27.5 
million in cryptocurrency.
    Today, you'll hear from four agencies working together on 
the front lines of this fight, but ransomware has become so 
widespread it can't be solved by Federal action alone. We need 
Congress and the public to assist. We need a Federal cyber 
incident-reporting standard for breaches that pose significant 
risks because inconsistent voluntary reporting is simply not 
enough. We need affected entities to report to the Federal 
Government as promptly as possible and within a defined 
timeframe because we must act swiftly.
    We need ransomware reports to include all information about 
the ransom demand and any potential ransom payment information 
because we can't let cybercriminals extort victims without 
repercussions.
    This may scare some folks out there. We understand why you 
may be hesitant to report an attack and to work with law 
enforcement. We do get that. I want you to know we're here to 
help you. As the FBI does with all victims we encounter in our 
work, we aim to inform, support, and assist ransomware victims 
in navigating the aftermath of crime and the criminal justice 
process with dignity and resilience.
    We want to empower victims of cybercrime because by working 
with law enforcement you move us closer to the day when the 
people who victimized you can't strike again. When we receive 
information from you, we're going to use it to help limit 
damage to you and others, to improve our national security, and 
to keep others from being victimized. When victims work with 
us, everybody wins except the bad guys.
    You all have constituents who have been hurt by ransomware, 
and I had personal experience with this issue as an FBI Special 
Agent in charge. When I was in New Orleans in 2019, the 
Louisiana Governor's office declared two separate states of 
emergency following a wave of ransomware attacks against school 
districts across the State and Government Agencies. As the 
father of school-age children, this hits home.
    We're here today to inform you, your constituents, and the 
American public about ransomware to make sure everyone knows 
this is a whole-of-Government, but perhaps more importantly, a 
whole-of-society issue, and to make it clear what people can do 
to protect themselves and how to respond if they unfortunately 
become a victim. Again, thank you for inviting us to address 
this important topic, and I look forward to answering your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Vorndran appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Vorndran. Mr. Goldstein.

             STATEMENT OF ERIC GOLDSTEIN, EXECUTIVE

             ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR CYBERSECURITY,

           CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY

                  AGENCY, ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA

    Mr. Goldstein. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Grassley, 
Members of the Committee, thank you for the chance to speak 
with you today on behalf of CISA and about this urgent threat. 
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your opening video, which really 
reflects the urgency of this issue, and the fact that 
ransomware intrusions can now impact the national critical 
functions upon which American families, businesses, and all 
levels of government depend.
    As the lead agency for civilian cybersecurity, CISA plays a 
key role in managing the risk of ransomware. We don't do it 
alone. One theme today will be that this is truly a whole-of-
Government and whole-of-Nation effort in which all agencies are 
aligned toward a shared outcome, reducing the prevalence and 
impact of ransomware intrusions affecting our country.
    Many of CISA's efforts to mitigate ransomware are focused 
on ensuring that all organizations in this country, big and 
small, across sectors, understand three key points. The first 
is that ransomware intrusions can affect any organization, from 
a small business to a Fortune 100 corporation. The second is 
that ransomware intrusions can cause prolonged downtime, 
significant financial implications, and potential impacts to 
public health and safety. The third is that investing in 
cybersecurity best practices has been shown to be demonstrably 
effective in reducing the prevalence and impact of these 
intrusions.
    To this latter point, Chairman, as you mentioned, just last 
week, CISA and our partners across the interagency, including 
the FBI and the Secret Service, launched stopransomware.gov a 
new whole-of-Government website intended to provide 
organizations across the country with access to resources to 
prevent intrusions, respond to intrusions, and report them when 
they occur. This website builds upon our earlier campaigns on 
this topic, including our secretary's Ransomware Sprint and our 
earlier Reduce the Risk of Ransomware campaign.
    We also offer a variety of no-cost voluntary services that 
businesses around the can take advantage of to help secure 
their networks and identify risks. In particular, I'll call out 
a ransomware readiness assessment, which is a self-assessment 
tool that helps organizations identify their preparedness for 
responding to and managing a ransomware intrusion.
    Going forward, it is very clear that we, as a Government 
and as a Nation, need to do more to address ransomware 
intrusions and the broader cybersecurity risks we face. The 
stakes are simply too high.
    First, CISA and our partners across Government must gain 
increased visibility into cybersecurity intrusions and threats 
affecting our Nation's businesses and State, local, Tribal, and 
Territorial entities. Without this visibility, we are unable to 
effectively share information, develop timely alerts, help 
victims, and understand impacts of these intrusions to the 
national critical functions upon which we all depend.
    As my colleagues have noted, we look forward to working 
with Congress on incident-reporting legislation that will 
significantly increase the volume of incidents that are 
reported to CISA and our Government partners today to ensure 
that we can act with urgency to render assistance and 
understand the breadth of these campaigns affecting American 
companies.
    Second, we must continue to invest in and mature our 
voluntary partnerships with the private sector and our State 
and local partners across the country. Over the past several 
months, the interagency has worked in collaboration with the 
private sector to focus on cyber-defense against known 
ransomware campaigns, and, going forward, we are shortly 
launching our new cyber-defense collaboration effort, as 
established by last year's NDAA to formalize and bring together 
the private sector and Government in a way that will allow us 
to exercise the best of the private sector and Government in 
managing these risks.
    Last, we must recognize that at least in the near term, we 
cannot prevent all intrusions and must drive a focus on 
resilience and functional continuity to ensure that intrusions 
don't impact the critical functions upon which Americans 
depend. To this end, the Cyber Response and Recovery Fund, an 
effort recommended by the Cyberspace Solarium Commission, and 
recently passed by the Senate, would provide CISA with 
additional resources and capacity to respond rapidly to 
catastrophic cyber incidents.
    Our Nation is facing unprecedented risk from these kind of 
intrusions. CISA and our partners across the agency are deeply 
focused on this risk, and we all must continue to redouble this 
focus, working with the private sector, with our State, local, 
Tribal, and Territorial partners, and with Congress to make 
sure that we are minimizing risks to our people, to our 
businesses, and to our Government.
    Thank you again for the chance to be here, and I very much 
look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Goldstein appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Mr. Goldstein. Mr. Sheridan.

            STATEMENT OF JEREMY SHERIDAN, ASSISTANT

           DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS, UNITED

             STATES SECRET SERVICE, WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. Sheridan. Good morning, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Grassley, and Members of this Committee. Thank you for inviting 
me to testify on the threat of ransomware, the growing risks it 
poses to the American people, and the work of the U.S. Secret 
Service and our partners to hold criminal actors accountable.
    In my role as the Assistant Director of Investigations, I 
lead our more than 160 global field offices and direct our 
network of cyber fraud task forces. I work to ensure that we 
are effectively detecting and arresting those actors engaging 
in the criminal violations we are authorized to investigate, 
while fully supporting our diverse protective requirements 
across the world.
    The U.S. Secret Service is a relatively small, specialized 
agency within the broader Federal law enforcement community. 
Our investigative expertise capabilities and statutory 
authorities are all focused on our mission to protect America's 
financial infrastructure and payment systems from criminal 
abuse.
    The Secret Service's distinct focus allows us to keep pace 
with rapid changes in the financial sector, and with the 
criminal schemes seeking to exploit those changes. Indeed, the 
Secret Service has been conducting investigations of cybercrime 
since well before they were even called cybercrimes.
    Our approach has remained consistent over the decades. By 
pursuing a list of proceeds, developing detailed evidence on 
transnational cybercrime networks, and by working with our 
partners around the globe, we have brought to justice some of 
the world's most infamous cybercriminals, including many who 
were thought to be beyond the reach of law enforcement. In 
particular, we have prioritized the investigation of key 
enablers of cybercrime, such as illicit digital money 
platforms, dark web forums, and other services that enable 
transnational cybercriminal activities, like the use of 
ransomware.
    Our long investigative tradition focused specifically on 
financial crimes leads us to view today's ransomware crisis 
through a historical lens, one driven by three complex and 
interrelated factors.
    First, the swelling profitability of these attacks, largely 
as the result of the growth of cryptocurrencies as a form of 
extortion payment. Second, the inadequate security systems 
connected to the internet. Third, perhaps most importantly, the 
maturation of a cybercriminal ecosystem that we have not 
sufficiently suppressed and is now engaged in increasingly 
brazen attacks.
    It does us no service to sugar coat the reality of today's 
situation. Cybercriminal networks are emboldening and 
expanding. Today, ransomware is menacing our economy and our 
Homeland Security. Cybercriminals are making more money and 
doing more harm to our society than ever before. They are 
creating a highly destabilizing force in international 
relations and risking unintended escalation as States look to 
consider their response options.
    To reiterate what my colleagues here today have all 
emphasized, there's no silver bullet for addressing the 
ransomware threat or our mounting cybersecurity risks. Federal 
law enforcement can act in meaningful ways to improve the 
current situation.
    First, we must reduce the profitability of ransomware 
campaigns by improving our ability to detect and interdict 
cybercrime proceeds. This will require a significant investment 
in tools, training, and personnel at home, as well as 
strengthened partnerships overseas.
    Second, we must work with technology companies and internet 
users to improve their defenses and resilience against cyber 
threats.
    Third, we must dramatically intensify our national and 
international efforts to investigate, arrest, and prosecute 
those engaged in transnational cybercrimes, including 
ransomware.
    Absent these combined efforts, I anticipate an increase in 
both the severity and frequency of highly disruptive ransomware 
attacks. Attacks that will make recent incidents seem rather 
mild by comparison. This should not be a political or 
geopolitical debate. Ransomware is endangering us all. 
Criminals are not targeting just big businesses, but schools, 
city governments, local police departments, and other services 
upon which the American people depend.
    Progress is possible. The Secret Service's successful 
investigations of the recent ransomware attacks on the 
Washington, DC, Metropolitan Police Department and the City of 
Atlanta show that we can hold criminals accountable.
    Our March, 2020 alert, which notified dozens of U.S. 
hospitals and healthcare providers of criminal presence in 
their networks, potentially preventing numerous ransomware 
attacks shows the ways that proactive information sharing can 
tangibly reduce cybersecurity risk. However, going forward, 
meaningful gains will require a renewed commitment on the part 
of the international community to make it clear that such 
destructive criminal activities are acceptable in a civilized 
world.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you 
today, and for your continued support of the U.S. Secret 
Service. I look forward to working closely with this Committee 
and with other Members of Congress on our shared priorities and 
welcome your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Sheridan appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you very much, Mr. Sheridan. Mr. 
Downing, on June 7th, the Department of Justice announced that 
it seized $2.3 million in cryptocurrency paid to the hackers 
behind the May ransomware attack on Colonial Pipeline. The 
criminal syndicate named Dark Side demanded a ransom in 
Bitcoins and Colonial Pipeline paid it. According to DOJ press 
release, law enforcement was able to review the Bitcoin public 
ledger, track transfers of Bitcoin, and identify $2.3 million 
in proceeds from these ransom payments.
    It seems, for lack of a better reference, that 
cryptocurrency and Bitcoins are the coin of the realm when it 
comes to this ransomware. What can we do? What specific laws 
should we enact in the United States to be responsive to this 
and diminish the role of cryptocurrency?
    Mr. Downing. Thank you very much for the question. I agree 
completely that the cryptocurrency has, unfortunately, fueled 
this rise of crime. It has two key aspects to it. It's often 
anonymous and it is nonreversible. That is, once it's passed to 
the criminals, it's very difficult claw it back.
    We do not have a current proposal to enhance our authority 
to track or to interdict these kinds of things, but it's 
something that's very much under consideration. We definitely 
see this as an increased problem and look to the laws that we 
already have on the books, like the Bank Secrecy Act, to 
enforce the rules and regulations that are already applying to 
cryptocurrency exchanges and other actors in this space.
    Chair Durbin. That's exactly the point. We enacted laws so 
that the transfer of certain amounts really required 
disclosures to the Government so we could monitor those. It's 
not a perfect system by any means. It would seem that the 
Bitcoin and cryptocurrency need to be subject to some sort of 
review, surveillance, or regulation, as well.
    Let me ask you another question and to the panel, and maybe 
someone else would like to take it on. There was an article on 
June 7th in the New Yorker entitled, ``The Go-Between,'' by 
Rachel Monroe. It talked about the similarities between 
kidnapping and ransomware, and she wrote that about three-
quarters of Fortune 500 companies eventually invested in kidnap 
and ransom insurance. There was some discomfort in the industry 
that they were funneling money to the mafia, terrorist groups, 
and criminal gangs, but by establishing some sort of a method 
to this madness, they were able to recover 97 percent of the 
kidnap victims without harm.
    Several countries went an extra step. Particularly Italy, 
Colombia, and the United Kingdom banned kidnap and ransom 
insurance. The argument was made in this article that that 
really had a negative impact. Countries that banned kidnap 
insurance drove negotiations underground.
    We're dealing in a world of cyber-insurance, and those who 
are trying to buy some protection through the insurance 
mechanism for their vulnerability. Is there any value to 
looking at the kidnapping experience in banning that insurance 
and deciding whether that has any beneficial aspects to it?
    Mr. Vorndran. Sir, I can start the conversation on that 
question. When we go back several years, it's at least our 
belief and understanding from public records that the insurance 
industry really started within cyber so that we could drive 
better cyber hygiene. You know, I think the question that we 
should all be asking ourselves: Is that what has actually 
happened? Has the implementation of cybersecurity insurance 
driven better cyber hygiene?
    From our perspective with dealing with target entities or 
victims, when we talk with them, the insurance availability is 
a big piece of their decision calculus about whether they do or 
don't pay, and my opinion would be that within the interagency, 
there's ongoing conversations about the value or lack thereof 
insurance. I think it's probably a conversation that should be 
had within this Committee, as well.
    Chair Durbin. It certainly would--is an important one, and 
I suppose I can argue both sides. I'm glad to see you're making 
a review of it at this point. It seems to me it facilitates the 
payment in these circumstances, and it may set up the mechanism 
therefore, too, with the kidnap insurance, I don't know. What 
is your impression? Are there special negotiators in this 
ransomware world that try to diminish the amounts that are 
being paid with any effect?
    Mr. Vorndran. There are special negotiators in this space 
for private sector companies that take on the negotiations with 
the cyber-adversaries that are overseas. From our conversations 
with people making decisions in companies about whether to pay 
or not to pay, we would ensure you that the insurance 
availability or lack thereof becomes a relevant component of 
their decision-making.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you. Senator Grassley.
    Senator Grassley. Yes. Mr. Goldstein, I'm going to start 
with you. I understand that CISA helps businesses large and 
small in preventing ransomware attacks. This is partially 
through a recently launched one-stop website called 
stopransomware.gov. Can you describe the services you offer 
directly to small businesses beyond advice on best practices, 
and are businesses able to reach out to CISA for help and 
support if they have questions?
    Mr. Goldstein. Senator, thank you so much for that 
question. One of the core elements of CISA's mission is 
providing proactive assistance to organizations, particularly 
and including small and medium businesses across the country 
before an intrusion occurs. Because we know once an intrusion 
happens, there's already likely going to be some damage done. 
Our goal is to get there and deliver guidance, best practices, 
and services before the ransomware intrusion happens.
    We offer a variety of services to this end. One option that 
we offer is self-assessment tools, via our stopransomware.gov 
website, so that an organization that wants to assess their own 
cybersecurity can download an easy-to-use tool, walk through a 
process, and understand the work that they have to do.
    If an organization also wants CISA's technical help, we 
offer assistance in identifying cybersecurity vulnerabilities, 
conducting technical penetration tests or even red team 
assessments of an organization's infrastructure, looking at the 
security of design architectures of a given network and on down 
the line.
    Of course, when an incident does occur, we work closely 
with our colleagues in Federal law enforcement to provide 
incident response and threat hunting services to determine 
where the adversary went, what they did, and get them out.
    All of these services can be easily accessed via the 
stopransomware.gov portal. They are all, of course, free of 
charge, and we encourage any organization in the country, 
public or private, to take advantage of our services, many of 
which can be delivered through our field personnel assigned 
throughout the country.
    Senator Grassley. I'm going to go to Mr. Downing. Cyber 
threats from China are sadly nothing new. From stealing our 
intellectual property to hacking records of Government 
employees, the Chinese are clearly comfortable using 
cyberattacks. On July 19th, the present administration 
announced that Chinese government-affiliated hackers were 
responsible for hacking the Microsoft Exchange email server and 
launching a number of cyber ransomware attacks against U.S.-
based companies.
    Do you--I'm concerned that the Department of Justice's 
China Initiative, a successful initiative to focus resources on 
combating Chinese espionage from the Trump administration may 
not be continued in the Biden administration. Would maintaining 
the China Initiative be helpful in combating cyber offensives 
from China?
    Mr. Downing. Thank you very much for the question, Senator. 
I would like to reassure you that, indeed, the Department 
continues to be keenly focused on the problem of the theft of 
intellectual property by Chinese actors and by the Chinese 
government. We have a close partnership between our National 
Security Division and the Criminal Division, where I work, 
which continues to look at these questions and to aggressively 
investigate and prosecute individuals who are responsible for 
them, both inside the United States and outside.
    We use this--we see this as part of a larger effort that, 
of course, the Biden administration is very concerned about 
Chinese overreach, and is aggressively looking at these 
questions, as well.
    Senator Grassley. Also, do you--ransomware--ransomware as a 
service is basically a form of high-tech organized crime. It's 
a business model where cybercriminals design a product, 
ransomware, which can be leased to other criminal actors. Some 
ransomware as a service provider even provide tech help like 
black market IT solution providers. Do you--are traditional 
cyber and organized crime tools available to fight ransomware 
as a service, or are new tools needed?
    Mr. Downing. Thank you for that question, as well. The--it 
is true that many of these cyberorganizations have organized 
structures not unlike traditional organized crime. We have 
aggressively prosecuted them, as well, using the tools that we 
have today.
    I don't have a particular proposal that addresses that 
point that has been cleared for--by the interagency, but we 
would continue to look at that and work with the Committee 
absolutely on that question.
    Senator Grassley. Does it mean that you have interagency 
conversations that you're thinking about something along that 
line if it gets clearance?
    Mr. Downing. We are always looking at all different kinds 
of tools and shortcomings to the extent that they exist in our 
authorities. We have put forward a couple of those kinds of 
shortcomings for the Committee's consideration as part of my 
statement for the record, and we very much look forward to 
working with you on that.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Grassley. Senator 
Feinstein.
    Senator Feinstein. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm really 
perplexed by this because what it says to me is that there is a 
criminal organization operating this process, and we can't do 
anything about it. If I understand it, in 2020, the FBI 
received 2,500 complaints relating to ransomware, with adjusted 
losses of over $29.1 million. This figure probably 
underestimates the severity of the problem because victims of 
these attacks are not record--are not required to report their 
data breaches to the FBI.
    For example, one private security firm reported last year 
there were nearly 2,400 attacks against United States State and 
local governments. They're attacking the government, as well. 
Healthcare facilities and schools alone, with 1,300 companies 
around the world losing intellectual property or sensitive 
information to attack.
    Why can they just exist, and we can't do anything about it? 
What can we do? It seems to me it's a criminal operation.
    Mr. Vorndran. Thank you for the question, Senator. You 
described the problem correctly, and we would articulate to you 
that many of the people who attack U.S.-based equities, whether 
that's small government, municipality government, small 
businesses, all of your constituents, most of them are 
overseas. Some of them are in hard-to-reach countries while 
others are not in hard-to-reach countries.
    I think from the FBI's perspective, this brings the value 
proposition in focus about our international reach. Secret 
Service has a similar international reach. Through the 
Department of Justice, we have had success in cooperative 
third-party countries that aren't Russia, right, in terms of 
safe harboring criminals. Those people have been brought to 
justice. They may be on criminal charges in a different 
country, and they may----
    Senator Feinstein. Excuse me. Could you just speak to what 
the FBI advises us to do?
    Mr. Vorndran. Very simply put, the FBI's advisement is 
build a relationship with your field office leader as soon as 
possible for cyber incidents. Then, second, if you 
unfortunately become a victim, report those incidents to the 
FBI or any of our counterparts here, and we will immediately 
share with the rest of our counterparts.
    The last thing I would offer is that's very, very important 
for each of the companies or municipal governments to have 
well-rehearsed incident response plans. That they understand 
who to call when they become a victim, they understand the 
scope of those incident response plans, and to routinely 
exercise those would be some important messages to share with 
your constituents.
    Senator Feinstein. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Graham.
    Senator Graham. Thank you all. As a matter of fact, I think 
one of the proposals you have is taking a couple of bills that 
we've introduced, Senator Whitehouse and myself, and we'd like 
to work with you on that. The bottom line, from the Secret 
Service point of view, if cryptocurrency didn't exist, would it 
be harder to do ransomware attacks and get paid for it?
    Mr. Sheridan. That's an interesting question, sir. It would 
be harder to facilitate the payment of the attacks. The 
crypto--excuse me, the ransomware attacks themselves would 
still occur, it would just be through a different payment 
mechanism.
    Senator Graham. If you took cryptocurrency off the table, 
how would they get paid?
    Mr. Sheridan. They would utilize other payment structures. 
Regular fiat currency, the traditional financing of crime that 
has occurred for all existence prior to cryptocurrency.
    Senator Graham. If they ask for cash, would that be tougher 
on them?
    Mr. Sheridan. It would be more difficult for them to 
facilitate, yes, sir.
    Senator Graham. Okay. How many ransomware attacks are there 
every year against Russian businesses?
    Mr. Sheridan. I don't have that information, sir.
    Senator Graham. What about Chinese businesses?
    Mr. Sheridan. Similarly, I'd have to research that.
    Senator Graham. What about Iran?
    Mr. Sheridan. Same answer, sir.
    Senator Graham. What about North Korea? Same?
    Mr. Sheridan. Yes, sir.
    Senator Graham. I bet you not many. The point is that we 
have criminal enterprises interconnected to nation-states. Do 
you agree with that from a Secret Service point of view?
    Mr. Sheridan. Yes, sir, that's accurate.
    Senator Graham. If we've compiled a terrorist list of 
state-sponsored terrorism, do we have such a list for state 
sponsors or safe havens for cyberterrorists?
    Mr. Sheridan. We have a list of suspects and identified 
individuals that----
    Senator Graham. Do you have--do you think it would be 
helpful for the United States to create a list of countries 
that we believe are aiding and abetting ransomware attacks 
throughout the free world?
    Mr. Sheridan. From a law enforcement perspective, we focus 
more on the individual than the country, sir. I would defer to 
a larger geopolitical discussion about that.
    Senator Graham. Would it help the FBI?
    Mr. Vorndran. Sir, we have a very good handle on what 
countries are behaving in what way----
    Senator Graham. We have a list of terrorist organizations, 
right? Every year, the State Department----
    Mr. Vorndran. Correct, sir.
    Senator Graham [continuing]. And coordination comes out 
with a list of terrorist groups. I think we have a list of 
state-sponsored terrorism every year, is that correct?
    Mr. Vorndran. Yes, sir.
    Senator Graham. Is that right, Mr. Downing?
    Mr. Downing. Yes, sir.
    Senator Graham. How about let's look at putting a list of 
state-sponsored or aiding and abetting countries when it comes 
to ransomware and cyberattacks. Does that make sense?
    Mr. Downing. Perhaps I could jump in on that one. It's 
something that I don't know that I've thoroughly considered, so 
I'm not ready to give you a quick answer, but I do think that 
finding ways to press the countries that are harboring these 
criminals is important.
    Senator Graham. Let's make a list of those countries. Who 
are they?
    Mr. Downing. Certainly, Russia is at the tope of the list. 
They have been consistently----
    Senator Graham. Let's stop right there. Russia is at the 
top of list of aiding and abetting ransomware attacks and other 
cybercrimes, do you agree with that?
    Mr. Downing. Sir, aiding and abetting has a particular 
legal definition. I wouldn't say that the government of Russia 
is behind these attacks. However, we do believe that they are 
not doing what they could be to suppressing them within their 
borders.
    Senator Graham. Why aren't they doing what they could be 
doing?
    Mr. Downing. There probably are various different reasons 
for that that I could speculate on, including that, as you 
pointed out, sir----
    Senator Graham. Have we had--have we ever seen a connection 
between the cybercriminals and Russian intelligence agencies?
    Mr. Downing. At times, yes, sir, we have found----
    Senator Graham. As a matter of fact, we found more than one 
time where the Russian Intelligence Agency Members were 
actually involved in cybercrimes, right?
    Mr. Downing. That also is true, sir. We----
    Senator Graham. I don't know what they're moonlighting 
policy is, but it seems to me--I don't know what the CIA does 
in their off time, but--I think the point we're trying to make 
is that deterrence has been lost when it comes to cybercrime, 
particularly ransomware. Do you all agree?
    Mr. Downing. Sir, I would say we have a significant 
deterrence. Could we do more? Yes, we would need to do more.
    Senator Graham. Is it working?
    Mr. Downing. It is having some effect, but it is not 
solving the problem----
    Senator Graham. Are the crimes going up or down?
    Mr. Downing. Up, sir.
    Senator Graham. Dramatically up or slightly up?
    Mr. Downing. Certainly, significantly up. Yes, sir.
    Senator Graham. Seems to me that deterrence is not working. 
From a Secret Service point of view, do you believe the network 
of laws we have today create enough deterrence in this space?
    Mr. Sheridan. I believe the network of laws does, sir. I 
think there needs to be greater enforcement of those laws. 
Greater resources----
    Senator Graham. It's an enforcement problem, not legal 
authority problem?
    Mr. Sheridan. From my perspective, sir, it's resourcing and 
enforcement of those laws and better equipping those law 
enforcement agencies that are tasked with----
    Senator Graham. You really don't need much help from us.
    Mr. Sheridan. We need significant help, sir, in authorities 
and in----
    Senator Graham. You just said two different things.
    Mr. Sheridan [continuing]. In authorities related to----
    Senator Graham. Thank you, thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman. First, I'm 
delighted to be following Senator Graham in the order of 
questioning, because we have a bill with Senator Blumenthal and 
Senator Tillis. It looks to me a lot like the Appendix A, Mr. 
Downing, that you have attached as your proposed legislation. 
Has a section two that is essentially the same as our section 
four and has a section three that is essentially the same as 
our section six. I'm wondering if you might sit down with us 
and come the rest of the way. We're glad you've made these two 
steps, we'd like to understand why you didn't recommend the 
entire bill. If there are technical changes that you think we 
should make, then we're eager to work that out. We think that 
this is a bill that has bipartisan support that could 
potentially move by unanimous consent, and we'd like to get 
this straightened out.
    Again, our appreciation for copying our two sections. Let's 
try to get together on all of them if we can. Can you do that?
    Mr. Downing. Thank you, Senator. We really appreciate your 
and Senator Graham's leadership on this. We----
    Senator Whitehouse. Senator Blumenthal and Tillis.
    Mr. Downing. And Tillis.
    Senator Whitehouse. We have Tillis right here.
    Mr. Downing. Sir. Of course, we would be more than happy to 
work with your staff on these questions. Absolutely, sir.
    Senator Whitehouse. Great. This is kind of a moment of 
frustration for me, as well, because we have known about 
critical infrastructure as a prime target since I wrote the 
original Intelligence Committee cyber report probably a decade 
ago.
    We've known for years and years and years and years that 
ransomware was a method for attacking. We have spent billions 
of dollars, particularly at Homeland Security on trying to 
solve the problem of protecting critical infrastructure, and 
boom, what happens? A bunch of people in a basement someplace 
are able to take down Colonial Pipeline, a significant piece of 
Colonial infrastructure, with a ransomware attack.
    That's not a success story. That's a failure story. That's 
something is wrong in the way we're doing business right now. 
It strikes me that the thing that is wrong in the way we're 
doing business right now is that you can be critical 
infrastructure in this country, providing essential services to 
our economy and to our national security, and not have to meet 
any real standards.
    I think we've shown in the defense industrial base that, 
with the right kind of pressures, companies can step up and do 
a better than average job. I think we've shown in the financial 
sector that, with regulators looking over the shoulders of the 
big banks, they have stepped up and done a better job than 
average. Here we sit with Colonial Pipeline, with your 
voluntary, Mr. Goldstein, your voluntary standards. The NIST 
Framework and the C3 and your offers. It obviously failed. I 
mean a total face-plant failure.
    What I would like to ask is that you and Homeland Security 
provide to this Committee a summary of what Colonial Pipeline 
accepted by way of all those voluntary offers that you talked 
about. How vigorous were they about participating in your 
voluntary programs? How was the response? I think if there is 
ever a moment where we have a case study of a failure of 
critical infrastructure from cyberattack, this is it.
    I think we're entitled to a bit of a test case here on this 
voluntary method that we followed and how it's working. Because 
it sure didn't work for Colonial Pipeline, and I'd like to know 
what they did and did not take up of your series of offers. Can 
you get that information to us?
    Mr. Goldstein. Thank you, sir. We'd be glad to provide you 
with that, and I will note we fully agree that the environment 
for critical infrastructure that's essential in national 
critical functions is able to operate insecurely with no 
insecurity weaknesses, as we know is often the case throughout 
this country, is untenable. We as a nation need to act.
    I will note that if you wait----
    Senator Whitehouse. I'm angry right now, you know, at you 
because of this situation. I actually understand that it's not 
your fault. The fault is here in Congress, where over and over 
again, groups like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce have come in 
and said, ``Don't regulate us. We're against all this cyber 
regulation. We don't want any of this. Make it all go away. 
We're against this bill. We're against that bill. We're going 
to tell the leader to, you know, block this legislation if it 
tries to go forward.''
    We now have a situation in which you can have critical 
infrastructure companies fail at meeting basic standards of 
cyber hygiene, and we're okay with that. As a legal matter, 
we're okay with that. We shouldn't be okay with that. We don't 
have to regulate everybody in the world, but if you're critical 
infrastructure, we should no longer tolerate this voluntary 
regime with big companies who know that their infrastructure is 
critical, and who fail.
    Mr. Goldstein. Yes, sir. Could I ask the Chairman for a 
response?
    Chair Durbin. Sure.
    Mr. Goldstein. Thank you, sir. Senator, as you are aware, 
in the wake of the Colonial Pipeline intrusion, CISA worked 
closely with our colleagues at TSA and the security regulator 
for the pipeline sector to push out two security directives, 
the first of which required reporting of security incidents to 
CISA, the second of which required entities covered by the 
directive to undertake mandatory security controls.
    We view this as a good model to drive the right level of 
security investment among the most critical entities in this 
country. We look forward to working with Congress and our 
partners across the interagency to ensure that we are rapidly 
raising the bar for cybersecurity across entities that provide 
national critical functions, wherever they may be.
    Senator Whitehouse. I thank you for that answer, and I 
would focus particularly on the words, ``in the wake of.''
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse. Senator Sasse.
    Senator Sasse. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you all for being 
here. How large is the universe of known ransomware gangs?
    Mr. Vorndran. Senator, thank you for the question. The FBI 
is tracking more than 100 different variants. When I say 
variants, that would be a brand name, such as Sodinokibi, which 
also is known as Revil. That would be one. Please understand 
that there are similar actors that cross-cut multiple different 
variants. But to answer your question, there's more than 100 
different variants is how many we track.
    Senator Sasse. Can you--thank you for that. Can you size 
them a little bit for us, and I understand that some of them 
are duplicate brands, but kind of issue spot how big the 
biggest are, how big are the mediums, what's the barrier to 
entry below which people are not likely able to have competent 
technologists to be able to execute an attack?
    Chair Durbin. Senator, before he responds, would each of 
the witnesses pull the microphone a little closer?
    Mr. Vorndran. Senator, the answer to your question is we 
have an entire interagency algorithm that essentially 
prioritizes from one to 101 the level of impact that each 
variant has had on the United States, its economy, and its 
other various equities. The largest one that we know of--we 
would estimate that their revenue from attacks exceeds $200 
million, to give you some type of scope on the value 
proposition.
    Your last question about barriers to entry is a little bit 
of a difficult one to answer. What I would say is that we see 
affiliates using the ransomware variants that are going to be 
most effective at compromising potentially vulnerable 
infrastructure--information technology infrastructure. 
Certainly happy to follow-up on the barriers to entry 
conversation, but that would be the best answer I can give you 
today.
    Senator Sasse. Who owns that data set? I see Senator Cornyn 
has just arrived. He and I are both active on this issue from 
the Intel Committee side, as well. If we wanted a briefing, who 
is the one person in the U.S. Government who is responsible for 
owning that data?
    Mr. Vorndran. The roll-up of the data is owned by the FBI 
through the interagency, but the model was built by the 
interagency, and every interagency component has input into the 
model to finalize the prioritization of it.
    Senator Sasse. Returning to Senator Graham's line of 
questioning, how many of those 100 are Russian-allied?
    Mr. Vorndran. I don't know that answer. Certainly can 
respond at a later time with a more precise answer, but what I 
can say is that while the developers may be Russia-based, the 
affiliates that deploy the ransomware may or may not be Russia-
based. It's a little bit of a complicated question, but if it's 
okay with you, sir, we can--we can get back to you with the 
precise number to answer your question properly.
    Senator Sasse. We'd love it, and in addition to whatever 
print response you want to give us, I think there are a few of 
us that overlap between this Committee and CISE, who would love 
to have an actual briefing on it.
    Senator Graham has left, but I'd like to pursue the 
question he asked you about deterrents, because the actual rate 
of growth is about 300 percent annually right now. Why do we 
think any of our deterrents is working? It's not a hostile 
question at any of you personally, but you all swung this as if 
there is some success here. It's pretty hard to see that from 
where we sit.
    Mr. Vorndran. I can lead the conversation that--my answer 
from the FBI's perspective would be that we are doing as much 
as we can with what we have to deter. I can appreciate why from 
your perspective, Senator, that it's not having as significant 
an impact as you would want, but there are dedicated men and 
women in the FBI, all the partnerships here, that are devoting 
hundreds of hours a week to this problem set and helping.
    If the question is are we having a large enough impact? I 
understand that question. Please understand, the answer to our 
question about why we're having an impact is because we have 
great men and women who are doing this work every day, doing 
prosecutions, infrastructure disruptions, you know, 
cryptocurrency seizures, and not just within the FBI, but 
certainly in the agencies that sit here today and the 
international community--international community and the 
Intelligence Community, as well, sir.
    Senator Sasse. So--go ahead.
    Mr. Downing. If I may. Just to add to that, I think 
focusing on law enforcement deterrents is an important piece of 
this puzzle, and I agree with you that, though, it alone is not 
going to be enough. That's why I think we all need to focus on 
a whole-of-Government response. That is, that we have our 
colleagues in the Treasury Department looking at how to enhance 
our position on the cryptocurrency front. We have our friends 
in CISA building cyber hygiene to slow down the threat. We have 
our friends in the State Department who are building 
international consensus against it and putting pressure on 
Russia.
    Yes, investigation and prosecution is an important piece of 
this, but it cannot be the only piece, I think, if we are going 
to succeed against this threat.
    Senator Sasse. Strongly agree that Putin's cronies who 
moonlight outside not just the official intel services, but 
across the oligarchs like little rent an intel service on the 
side, clearly, they don't fear us, and that deterrent problem 
is well above your pay grade. Nobody's faulting you here for 
that. Sir, I recognize you're obviously right that there are a 
lot of hardworking patriots inside the organization, but that's 
a different question than whether or not we have the right 
national strategy. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Sasse. Senator Klobuchar.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Mister Chair. Thank 
you all for the work you're doing. When I think back to my 
early confrontations with this issue as a prosecutor, I always 
remember a case we had. It was a child porn case, but it 
involved computers, and it was a little suburb. The police went 
to the scene, and they had not been trained. They pushed some 
buttons on the computer, and all our evidence disappeared.
    Now, let me bring this to our current situation that we're 
in. It is so much worse and so much bigger. It is workforce as 
well as all these other challenges that my colleagues have laid 
out. Maybe the numbers I have: An estimated 3.5 million 
cybersecurity jobs will be available but unfilled by--in 2021. 
Approximately one in three cybersecurity jobs in the Federal 
level going unfilled. Talk to me about how we're going to get 
people from the private sector, perhaps--Senator Thune and I 
had a bill on this--to come here so we are as sophisticated as 
the bad guys trying to ransom and do all kinds of bad stuff to 
disrupt our critical infrastructure. How are going to get the 
people in and what should we do to help?
    Mr. Sheridan. Senator, thank you for that question. I'll 
turn it over to Mr. Goldstein to partner on this answer. I do 
want to address your opening statement, though, related to 
State and local capabilities. As has been stated multiple 
times, this is whole-of-Government approach. The Secret Service 
has the National Computer Forensics Institute that has trained 
and equipped more that 16,000 State, local, Territorial, Tribal 
officers as well as judges and prosecutors. We train more than 
3,000 a year and these really are the first line of defense. I 
think this goes to Senator Feinstein's questions about what 
people can do to be more resilient.
    My colleague, Mr. Vorndran has mentioned relationships. 
This is where the relationship forms with those that you know 
in your community, your constituents, to have that level of 
trust, that level of communication, to be the first responder 
in these types of incidents.
    That institution, as you may be aware, is due to sunset in 
2022. We'd greatly appreciate Congress' support for allowing us 
to train as many as we have, but we need to seek 
reauthorization as well as growth, not only domestically, but 
internationally for that facility to, as you said, make sure 
we're better prepared on the State and local level.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Then if we could get the question 
of the unfilled jobs and how we're going to get people into 
this area. Young people and the like with a call to service, I 
hope. Mr. Goldstein.
    Mr. Goldstein. Absolutely. Senator, thank you for calling 
out this critical question. There is no bigger challenge facing 
the future of our Nation's cybersecurity than building a deep 
and diverse workforce to meet the threats we are facing now and 
facing tomorrow.
    At CISA, we're looking at this as really having three 
components. The first is how do we build cybersecurity and STEM 
education into our K12 students today? At CISA, we have a grant 
program where we provide cybersecurity curriculum and training 
to K12 teachers across the country. Obviously, that is a large 
population. We need to scale and do more. The first question is 
how do we ensure that across elementary, middle, and high 
schools across this country our students are learning first and 
foremost the importance of cybersecurity, and then the basic 
skills to pursue this as an avocation from a very young age. 
That will require some very fundamental changes how we think 
about educating our children in this country.
    The second is how do we resource those leaving secondary 
education going to 2-year institutions, HBCUs, trade schools, 
all the way to 4-year universities, ensuring that those 
universities have the programs where they're turning out 
graduates that are able to take jobs at the leading 
cybersecurity entities in our country, whether Secret Service, 
CISA, or the FBI, or the private sector. Because, frankly, we 
are all in the same fight here. Here at CISA again provides 
curriculum and training to a select group of entities, largely 
serving underserved communities. We need to do more there.
    The third piece is how do we make it easier to enter public 
service as a cybersecurity practitioner. The cybersecurity 
market today is extraordinarily competitive, and we need an 
urgent call to action to make sure that the best and brightest 
are joining our agencies to help defend our country against 
these threats.
    Senator Klobuchar. Got it. I think some of our model is 
people stay forever in the Government, and we may have a 
situation where we have a call to action to come to our 
Government for a while. Maybe they go somewhere else after 
that, but we're just going to fall behind if we can't get 
people to do it. Did you want to add anything, Mr. Vorndran?
    Mr. Vorndran. Senator, very briefly, just rough numbers. A 
computer scientist graduating college with a 4-year bachelor's 
degree can earn about $100,000. The entry position, certainly 
within the Department of Justice, is about $63,000. We can't 
incentivize that year over year right now, so just to highlight 
the focus of your concern and the recruiting retention problem. 
It is a significant barrier.
    Senator Klobuchar. Senator Thune and I had a bill a few 
years ago that would allow people to go into certain areas. You 
have all kinds of issues, especially with the FBI with then 
classified, private sector people coming in. I think we should 
revisit that for certain positions, it is--but we've got to 
figure this out, so we get the people.
    I have some other questions--I'm out of time--about small 
businesses with the 51 percent not being able to have any 
resources to cybersecurity themselves, and how we're going to 
build that up. I can ask that on the record, or maybe my 
colleagues will. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Klobuchar. Senator Tillis.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, thank 
you for being here. Mr. Sheridan, wanted to give you an 
opportunity to respond to Senator Graham's question. You were 
talking about authorities and other resources that you need, 
so, if you would hit that quickly.
    Mr. Sheridan. Thank you very much, Senator. Regards to 
authorities, as I mentioned, our National Computer Forensics 
Institute reauthorization is extremely important, not just for 
us, but for the whole-of-Government approach. As well, our 
authorities within the Secret Service related to 
investigations, specifically for statutory authority on money 
laundering, structured payments, and unlicensed money 
transmitters would be very beneficial for us to strengthen our 
investigative mission. Thank you, sir.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you. Mr. Goldstein, in my office, I 
was a part of a practice that did ethical hack testing at 
Pricewaterhouse back in the late 1990's and early 2000's and 
followed this pretty closely. In my office, I have a Hacking 
for Dummies, which is a great book, and every business should 
read it and understand how vulnerable they are. I believe that 
businesses--a part of what we're doing here is to provide you 
all with better tools to seek out bad actors and hold them 
accountable, but businesses have benefited mightily from the 
internet and electronic systems. They need to harden their 
systems the way that they harden their physical presences, with 
alarm systems, burglar bars, whatever it takes to secure a 
physical premise.
    I think one thing we have to do is make it very clear to 
business that we alone, the Federal Government, or the whole-
of-Government, are not responsible for securing their business 
enterprise. We're there when somebody breaks in to bring them 
to justice.
    Is it still the case that the vast majority of these hacks 
are attributed to human error? That there's a click on a link? 
Is that still the case in your research that we've got to 
better educate people, that they're the weak link in most of 
these successful hack events?
    Mr. Goldstein. Thank you, Senator, for that question. It is 
certainly still the case that particularly with ransomware 
intrusions, most of the events that we are seeing are 
attributable to known security weaknesses. It might be the case 
that an employee clicks on a phishing link. It might also be 
the case, as has been reported publicly with Colonial Pipeline, 
that the adversary exploited a legacy remote access device that 
was using a known password. Certainly, this is why we are so 
focused on driving adoption of these basic practices because we 
know that these can demonstrably reduce the likelihood that a 
business will be exploited by a ransomware intruder.
    Senator Tillis. Why shouldn't we--I fall short of mandating 
what the private sector does and to provide them best 
practices, but why shouldn't we as a matter of Federal policy 
require everyone who does business with the Federal Government 
to adopt and implement these practices as a price of admission 
for doing business with the Federal Government?
    Mr. Goldstein. That's a great question, sir. President 
Biden's cybersecurity executive order, issued earlier this 
year, required CISA to work with our partners in Government to 
do exactly that, to prescribe new contract clauses that will be 
adopted into Federal acquisition law and will provide a floor 
for the kinds of security controls that we expect to see from 
Federal vendors.
    Senator Tillis. The administration already has that 
authority? Congress doesn't need to do anything more to push 
the point?
    Mr. Goldstein. My understanding, sir, is that today we can 
do what we need to do in that space. That's correct.
    Senator Tillis. Mr. Vorndran, what about the concept of--I 
think maybe Senator Whitehouse and Daines have introduced the 
concept of a hackback to basically allow private sector to go 
after those who are holding them or requesting ransom. What's 
the--what's the Department's opinion about really encouraging 
businesses to go back after these people? Hackback.
    Mr. Vorndran. You want me to? Senator, do you mind if I 
defer that question to Department?
    Senator Tillis. Yes.
    Mr. Vorndran. Thank you.
    Mr. Downing. Sir, on the Hackback question, the Department 
has long held the position that it is ill-advised to encourage 
or permit private sector people to hackback. Couple of reasons: 
First, there's a real risk to innocent users. Very often, the 
infrastructure that's involved is not the offenders that 
they're going after, but instead innocent third parties. 
Second, there is a real problem with the interference with 
ongoing criminal or intelligence investigations when you have 
private sector people monkeying around in these groups and 
these organizations. Third, very often at the early stages of 
an investigation, we don't know who's behind it, and so, if you 
happen to be hacking back from, let's say, a film company that 
is invaded, and it turns out later that it's North Korea, as 
has happened, that's a particularly sensitive situation where 
you want to make sure that the government actors are the ones 
in charge of how we are going to take those steps and not have 
it be done by private sector people who are not in a position 
to understand the full picture or the geopolitical situation.
    Our long-standing position has been that that is not a 
helpful road to go down. Instead, report to us, report to the 
FBI. We can take steps. We have authorities to have an effect 
and an impact, and that's the better approach.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you all. Thank you, Mister----
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Tillis. Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mister Chairman. I think the 
panel of all--you all agreed that there is a causal 
relationship between the growth in cryptocurrencies helping to 
drive the increase in ransomware attacks. I think that you 
generally agreed yes. We're not quite sure what to do about it, 
but aside from things like considering the U.S. banning 
cryptocurrencies, what about should we make ransomware payments 
illegal? Anybody want to answer that?
    Mr. Vorndran. Senator, thank you for the question. It's our 
opinion that banning ransomware payments is not the road to go 
down, and there's really a prime reason for that. Right now, 
what was shared in the opening remarks is that ransomware has a 
single extortion model. Essentially, we would hold your data 
ransom until you pay for that data. In the very recent past, 
actors have moved to a double extortion model. First, they 
exfil data and threaten to leak it on a tour site for sensitive 
information. The second prong of the extortion is the ransom 
for the encrypted data.
    It would be our opinion that if we ban ransom payments, now 
you're putting U.S. companies in a position to face yet another 
extortion, which is being blackmailed for paying the ransom and 
not sharing that with authorities. It's a really complicated 
conversation, but it's our position that banning ransom 
payments is not the road to go down.
    Mr. Sheridan. If I could add, ma'am, as well----
    Senator Hirono. Yes.
    Mr. Sheridan. Reporting is one of our biggest challenges 
related to this.
    Senator Hirono. I'm sorry, what is?
    Mr. Sheridan. Reporting.
    Senator Hirono. Yes.
    Mr. Sheridan. As was stated by several of my colleagues. 
Banning the payments would further push any reporting to law 
enforcement into obscurity and make it virtually impossible for 
us to have that relationship.
    Senator Hirono. This is quite the conundrum for all of us, 
and I note that we're going to need a workforce that is very 
attuned to the need for--to have an understanding of 
cybersecurity issues and sim backgrounds. You noted, I think 
it's Mr. Downing, that we need a whole-of-Government response. 
That means that we should be across departments. Does that 
include the Department of Education? Because I note that Mr. 
Goldstein said that we need to really have curriculum in our 
elementary schools that focuses on STEM and that provides an 
understanding of cybersecurity. Is the Department of Education 
involved in this whole-of-Government approach that you all 
talked about?
    Mr. Goldstein. Thank you, ma'am, yes, absolutely. CISA 
works very closely with our colleagues at Education, as well as 
at the National Science Foundation and other agencies to make 
sure that all partners in Government with a role in promoting a 
curriculum that meets the challenges of today and tomorrow are 
onboard. This is really a whole-of-Government effort. Our goal 
is to make sure that those individuals in school today are 
prepared to take on the jobs that we'll need them to to face 
this challenge going forward.
    Senator Hirono. Is this kind of curriculum already in our 
elementary public schools?
    Mr. Goldstein. That's correct in some cases. Certainly, it 
is not ubiquitous across the country yet, but this is part of, 
of course, a broad focus on STEM education. Part of ensuring 
that--that children in school in this country are focusing on 
STEM education is the cybersecurity aspect of that challenge. 
Making sure that we are encouraging both STEM as a basic focus 
and then cybersecurity as an aspect thereof will be critical 
going forward.
    Senator Hirono. I actually would like to see an actual 
curriculum in our elementary schools that focuses on STEM. What 
about engaging with our allies because it's not just the U.S. 
Government, whole-of-Government, but we really need to engage 
with our allies in how to prevent these kinds of crimes from 
occurring, so how are we doing on that score?
    Mr. Goldstein. Sure. I'll offer a first thought and then 
I'll hand off to my colleagues. From our perspective at CISA, 
we work very closely with international computer emergency 
response teams, or CERTs, who are the network defenders 
globally to protect their countries' private and public 
networks, and we share information with them continuously on 
new ransomware threats that we can then share to help protect 
businesses and government networks in our country.
    Senator Hirono. Is the----
    Mr. Downing. If the----
    Senator Hirono. Go ahead.
    Mr. Downing. If I may, there are a number--you're exactly 
right that international collaboration is critical to what we 
do, and there are a number of factors that are in play here. We 
strongly support, for example, the Convention on Cybercrime, to 
encourage appropriate laws around the world, and that's been 
building over the years.
    Partnerships with foreign law enforcement agencies are 
critical. The Secret Service and the FBI have personnel 
stationed in foreign countries, and we work extremely well with 
international agencies like Europol, with some very effective 
results.
    Third, for the Department of Justice, we have a program 
called the ICHIPs, the International Computer Hacking and 
Intellectual Property coordinators stationed in various 
countries. We find that having prosecutors in foreign countries 
also helps to build those relationships which have proven to be 
so effective when we've done takedowns like that NetWalker and 
Emotet ones that I mentioned earlier.
    It's that international collaboration that is key to many 
of the successes that we've had.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Cornyn.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman for holding this 
very important hearing. I think we're suffering from many of 
the same silos we--we identified on 9/11. We find that there's 
a number of different parts of the Federal Government that are 
dealing with the same problem in different ways, and we're 
depending on the executive branch depending on--from 
administration to administration to come up with a coherent 
strategy which uses the all of government approach that Mr. 
Downing and others have advocated.
    Let me start with a basic--very basic question. When 
somebody gets hacked, should they be required to notify the 
Federal Government? Mr. Goldstein, perhaps CISA? Or the FBI?
    Mr. Goldstein. Certainly. Our view is that any efforts to 
increase the volume of incident reporting to CISA and, to be 
sure, with our partners in Federal law enforcement, is 
absolutely essential. Absent this reporting, we are unable to 
offer assistance, we are unable to address many of the 
questions that you and your colleagues have raised today to 
understand the breadth and scope of the problem, and we're 
unable to develop information that we can share effectively to 
prevent other intrusions. Certainly, steps taken to increase 
reporting across the country will be highly beneficial. We look 
forward to working with Congress toward that important goal.
    Senator Cornyn. Mr. Vorndran.
    Mr. Vorndran. Senator, thank you for the question. If I can 
just amplify Mr. Goldstein's remarks. As is memorialized in Mr. 
Downing's statement for the record and my statement for the 
record, we are very significant advocates for mandatory breach 
reporting. There's really three reasons for that.
    Right. We need sufficient information about tactical 
information, ransom requested, where to pay the ransom, how to 
contact the actors. The information must be shared promptly so 
that we can respond accordingly, and then there needs to be a 
requirement to immediately share across the interagency. 
Admittedly, sir, that already happens today, but anything we 
can collectively do to increase reporting is going to be very 
helpful in this problem area.
    Our estimates are that between 25 and 30 percent of 
incidents get reported to Federal law enforcement at this time.
    Senator Cornyn. I know there are at least two bills that 
are currently out there. One from the Homeland Security and 
Governmental Affairs Committee, a bipartisan bill. Senator 
Portman, Senator Peters. Then there's also an Intel Committee 
bill that Senator Warner and a number of us are working on to 
require that because it seems like in the past we've relied on 
the business community, for example, to make a report and 
perhaps they feel like because reputational considerations or 
some others, they may just want to not report it, and because 
once it gets into the public domain, then maybe people don't 
feel comfortable doing business with them. Or maybe they go to 
a competitor or the like.
    It strikes me as absolutely critical, and I'm glad to hear 
your answer that we get the universe--universal picture, and 
then to give you and other authorities the opportunity to deal 
with it.
    There ought to be some sort of confidential means to do 
that, and one that perhaps provides some liability protection, 
much as we've done in the past with some of the programs 
through the National Security Agency when it comes to 
collecting information from phone companies and the like.
    How big a problem is attribution? Mr. Vorndran.
    Mr. Vorndran. Senator, that's an excellent question. The 
response to your question is that it's very challenging, 
especially in the criminal cyber element, moved away sometimes 
from the Nation's State cyber element. In the criminal cyber 
element, it is extremely challenging to gain attribution down 
to a keyboard or an actor behind a keyboard. I would estimate 
that about half of our cases don't have accurate attribution 
because of the complexity involved.
    Senator Cornyn. That's part of the tradecraft of the cyber 
offender, correct? Hiding their identity?
    Mr. Vorndran. Yes, sir. I mean, it's very easy to 
masquerade as a Mandarin keyboard in Brazil that would 
potentially probe a network. The person behind that keyboard is 
probably not in Brazil, and they may or may not speak Mandarin.
    Senator Cornyn. I agree with you and Mr. Downing that the 
law enforcement--law enforcement model is an important 
component, but only a component of what our response should be. 
Indeed, after the 2016 Russian interference and cyberattacks on 
the DNC server and leaking that, General Nakasone and the folks 
out at Cyber Command and NSA undertook a way to try to protect 
our voting systems in 2018, and we had remarkably improved 
protection of our voting systems.
    We know that we have the capability to do it, we just need 
to figure out how to come up with a strategy. Perhaps something 
like we did on Congress past 5G and beyond, which basically 
mandated that the executive branch come up with a comprehensive 
strategy, working with Congress because frankly, we're so--as I 
mentioned at the beginning--siloed here.
    We've got different Committees of different jurisdiction 
and different levels of information about these issues and 
different perspectives depending on if you're the Judiciary 
Committee, focusing on law enforcement, as opposed to maybe the 
Intel Committee looking at the espionage threat. Or the 
Governmental Affairs Committee looking at some other aspect of 
it.
    Having a plan I think is really important because right 
now, notwithstanding our outstanding capabilities, I think 
we're getting our lunch eaten on a regular basis, and we've got 
to up our game. That's not a comment on what you do or the 
people that work with you. I think it's up to Congress and the 
policymakers to come up with a policy that you can then 
implement to do the job that you're trained to do, and that 
you're trying to do every day. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Cornyn. Senator Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman, and I want to 
join in thanking you and the Ranking Member for this hearing 
and thank you all the law enforcement members of this panel. 
You have definitely upped your game. There's no question about 
your recent record, and I'm sure it reflects long-standing work 
on putting together the infrastructure that's necessary to do 
that law enforcement, and the skills, and the equipment, and so 
forth.
    As has been mentioned, Senators Whitehouse, Graham, Tillis, 
and I have a measure that we've introduced, the International 
Cybercrime Prevent Act, which is intended to provide you with 
more tools. Maybe mandatory reporting ought to be one of them.
    A number of our colleagues have asked for liability 
protections in connection with that reporting, and I would 
welcome the opportunity to consult with you as to ways there 
may be to protect the confidentiality of information that is 
provided in the course of reporting because I think that's one 
of the concerns that may discourage more reporting.
    We've just--some of us come from a hearing in the Commerce 
Committee, where I asked the head of TSA about reporting, and 
he testified that there is reluctance because of the fear of 
publicity. That is a common thread in law enforcement, as you 
well know, that prevents reporting of rape, it prevents 
reporting by seniors about financial crimes, it prevents all 
kinds of reporting. We need to overcome that obstacle.
    I want to ask about the harboring of these cybercriminals 
in Russia and China. I was very impressed and appreciated 
President Biden raising this issue in his meeting with Vladimir 
Putin. The Russian government's hacking and its providing safe 
haven to criminal elements that, in turn, have attacked us. He 
was very dramatic in his telling Russia, according to the 
readout of the recent Biden call with Putin this month, that we 
will take quote ``any action necessary to defend our people and 
our critical infrastructure.''
    Have you seen any change in the amount or severity of 
cybercrime from Russia in this last month?
    Mr. Downing. Perhaps I could take that one, Senator. I 
don't believe there has been a measurable drop. No, I don't 
think that is a change.
    Senator Blumenthal. Essentially, there's no evidence that 
Putin is heeding this warning as yet, correct?
    Mr. Downing. I think that's fair, yes.
    Senator Blumenthal. How about on the part of China? Is it 
getting the message?
    Mr. Downing. With respect to China, that's a complex 
situation. We continue to press on that issue from the 
Department of Justice's perspective in investigating and 
prosecuting those crimes aggressively.
    Senator Blumenthal. Let me be somewhat simplistic. What I'm 
hearing is that Russia and China essentially are taking no real 
action in cracking down on these criminal gangs or the 
malicious cyberattacks that make us the target, correct?
    Mr. Goldstein. Senator, I would just add that, as my 
colleague noted, we believe that only about a quarter of 
ransomware intrusions are actually reported. The question of 
are we seeing a change in trend is a very hard one to answer. 
It certainly could be the case that some ransomware actors have 
changed behavior for a variety of reasons. We simply don't have 
the data to be able to answer the question with any level of 
authority.
    Senator Blumenthal. Okay, but we have to act on the basis 
of what we know, not what we don't know. From what we know, and 
you have the best knowledge in the business, there has been no 
perceptible change in behavior on the part of either China or 
Russia in cracking down on these criminal actors.
    Mr. Goldstein. Based upon available data, we have not seen 
a change in a trendline of intrusions overall.
    Senator Blumenthal. The available data that you'd need 
would be more reporting of these attacks?
    Mr. Goldstein. That's correct, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. Do you have a way of knowing about 
these attacks without their being reported?
    Mr. Goldstein. We do not, sir, not reliably.
    Senator Blumenthal. Is there conceivably a way 
technologically to know?
    Mr. Goldstein. I defer to my colleagues in law enforcement 
if they have any methods. To reference from our point of view, 
hearing from the victims will be the most authoritative way to 
understand the breadth of these intrusions.
    Senator Blumenthal. Only a quarter of them are telling you 
when they are victims.
    Mr. Goldstein. Again, sir, that's a rough estimate since we 
don't know the incidents that we are not hearing about.
    Senator Blumenthal. You don't know what you don't know, but 
I guess what I'm taking away from what I've heard from you and 
what I've heard in the Commerce Committee--the companies of 
America, our corporate sector really is failing in its 
responsibility to protect our national security by refusing to 
report these instances of cyberattack. Am I overstating it?
    Mr. Goldstein. In this case, sir, it is truly needs to be a 
whole-of-Nation effort, with Government and industry working 
together around this shared challenge, and the more the 
companies report their intrusions to the Government, the better 
job we can do in managing this risk.
    Senator Blumenthal. I interpret that as a yes. Thank you. 
Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. Senator Cruz.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you, Mister Chairman. Ransomware 
attacks have become more and more common, and more and more 
dangerous. In May of this year, hackers based in Russia shut 
down Colonial Pipeline, a pipeline that carries gasoline to the 
southeastern United States. What did the Biden administration 
do? Next to nothing. The administration sat around as gas lines 
formed up and down the eastern seaboard and the White House 
deputy national security advisor tried to absolve the Biden 
administration, tried to absolve the President from any 
responsibility whatsoever, saying quote, ``Colonial is a 
private company, and we'll defer information regarding their 
decision on paying a ransom to them.''
    Later, after Colonial paid a $4.4 million ransom, President 
Biden decided to reward Russia for allowing this hack. He 
greenlighted the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, a natural-gas pipeline 
from Russia to Germany that will put billions of dollars in the 
pockets of Vladimir Putin, and then he sat down with Putin and 
told him that only certain parts of America's critical 
infrastructure should be off limits. He specified 16 parts that 
were off limits. Call me crazy, but I think all of our critical 
infrastructure should be off limits to Russian hacking. And 
when the President enumerates 16 that matter, that is an 
invitation to hack every other part of our infrastructure.
    Mr. Downing, does paying ransom encourage more ransomware 
attacks?
    Mr. Downing. I think it's fair to say that when criminals 
profit, they draw more criminals into that space and so, the 
paying of ransoms is certainly one thing that fuels the 
increase of ransomware attacks that we've seen.
    Senator Cruz. Does telling Putin that only certain parts of 
our infrastructure are off limits--does that have the potential 
to encourage more attacks like the Colonial Pipeline attack?
    Mr. Downing. I would have to say that the President's 
communications with Putin are outside of my purview. However, I 
can assure you that we are continuing to press for results, and 
we are not waiting around, from a law enforcement perspective, 
to see what would happen there. We are pursuing the cases and 
the investigations and the activities that we would in order to 
do the very best that we can to drive deterrents and to arrest 
and disrupt these operations.
    Senator Cruz. Mr. Goldstein, is attacking a pipeline a new 
concept or have we seen this before?
    Mr. Goldstein. Senator, this--the attack of Colonial 
Pipeline is the first incidence that we have certainly seen in 
this country of an intrusion causing a disruption to pipeline 
infrastructure.
    Senator Cruz. Your organization just recently issued a 
release stating that between 2011 and 2013, Chinese state-
sponsored actors targeted 23 U.S. natural-gas pipeline 
operators. Is that right?
    Mr. Goldstein. That's correct, sir. That refers to 
targeting rather than an intrusion resulting in an actual 
disruption.
    Senator Cruz. The idea that malevolent actors would go 
after infrastructure like pipelines, that is a threat we've 
been aware of for some time.
    Mr. Goldstein. That's correct, Senator.
    Senator Cruz. China has repeatedly used ransomware and 
cyberattacks to harm America. Not only has it attacked 
pipelines in an effort to cause physical damage, but just this 
year, hackers affiliated with the Chinese--Chinese government 
attacked tens of thousands of computers across tens of 
thousands of organizations, including a significant number of 
small businesses, towns, cities, and local governments.
    Once again, unfortunately, the Biden administration 
responded to extreme threats with extreme weakness. The Biden 
administration has not imposed any sanctions on China. Instead, 
the administration announced that is dropping criminal cases 
against five Chinese scientists who, with the help of consular 
officials, hid their affiliations with China's military in 
order to infiltrate our Nation.
    Mr. Downing, why is this administration refusing to 
prosecute Chinese scientists who lied about their ties to the 
Chinese military in order to come to this country and gain 
access to information?
    Mr. Downing. Senator, thank you for the question. I would 
have to say that, from my position in the Criminal Division, I 
am not responsible for those decisions. However, it is 
something that I'd be happy to take back and get you an answer 
for.
    Senator Cruz. Let me ask anyone on the panel. Do you have 
an answer as to why the administration has not sanctioned China 
for repeated cyberattacks over and over and over again against 
the United States?
    I think that's a question that administration should 
answer. Showing weakness to China and weakness to Russia only 
invites more aggression and more cyberattacks attacking our 
Nation. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Ossoff.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our 
panelists. One of the benefits of bringing a whole-of-
Government approach to a national security issue such as this 
is that it can bring the full force of the U.S. Government. One 
of the risks is jurisdictional ambiguity, a lack of a clear 
chain of command, and organization responsibility. What I'd 
like to ask first is for each of you--and forgive me, I can't 
see how you're arrayed beneath the dais. Beginning with you, 
Mr. Downing, and then proceeding sequentially, to identify what 
it is that your agency, your component has lead responsibility 
for in preventing and responding to ransomware attacks that 
none of the other components or agencies represented here has 
lead responsibility for. What are you uniquely responsible for 
ensuring happens and gets done to protect our cybersecurity?
    Mr. Downing. Thank you very much for the question, Senator. 
At the Department of Justice, we have two Divisions that are 
responsible in part for responding to the ransomware attacks. 
My Division, the Criminal Division, is responsible to--for 
those attacks that are identified as being from criminal 
actors. We have taken the lead on a very large number of the 
recent ransomware attacks.
    We bring charges, we make charging decisions, we work on 
the legal side to make sure that the law enforcement agencies 
are able to obtain the evidence that they need, and we pursue 
extraditions through our Office of International Affairs in 
order to get them back to the United States.
    My colleagues in the National Security Division support 
that work through a lot of different means related to national 
security authorities. However, when the actors responsible are 
nation-states, or proxies for nation-states, then they would 
have the key role in all of the same ways that I mentioned, 
gathering evidence, bringing charges, and seeing those charges 
through to court.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you. Mr. Vorndran, please.
    Mr. Vorndran. Thank you for the question, Senator. In 
response to your question, we would reference Presidential 
policy directive 41 from 2016. That was the first ever national 
policy on this topic and sought to define a significant cyber 
incident. In answer to your exact question, who's in charge? 
Instead of naming a single agency, it recognized shared 
responsibility across U.S. Government, and it defined threat 
response as involving investigation, attribution, and threat 
pursuit, and named the Department of Justice acting through the 
FBI and the National Cyber Investigative Joint Task Force as 
the lead agency for this line of effort during a significant 
incident. I'll certainly let Mr. Goldstein reference CISA's 
role. ODNI has a role in PPD 41, but I think another key----
    Senator Ossoff. I appreciate there's a broad spectrum of 
responsibilities here. My question is: what is FBI's role that 
is distinct from every other agency represented here today. 
What do you do, and your personnel do that nobody else does?
    Mr. Vorndran. In PPD 41, investigate, attribute, threat 
pursuit for a ransomware incident.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Vorndran. Mr. Goldstein, 
please.
    Mr. Goldstein. Thank you, Senator. CISA is uniquely focused 
on the cyber-defense mission. In the context of incident 
response, we are focused exclusively on mitigating impacts to 
the victim and deriving network defense information that we can 
share with others.
    We also focused significantly on what we would call left of 
boom, focusing on sharing information and providing services to 
reduce the prevalence and impact of cybersecurity intrusions 
before they occur for critical infrastructure, small, medium 
businesses, and SLTT partners across the country.
    Senator Ossoff. Understand. Is it fair to say that 
prevention and adaptation? Is that what you're suggesting is 
your unique institutional role at CISA?
    Mr. Goldstein. I would frame it, Senator, as prevention, 
resilience, and then, in the context of an incident, 
mitigation.
    Senator Ossoff. Mr. Sheridan.
    Mr. Sheridan. Thank you, Senator. The Secret Service is 
focused on protecting the Nation's financial infrastructure and 
financial payment systems.
    Senator Ossoff. You all have some responsibility for 
protecting those aspects of critical infrastructure, correct? 
My question is what does the U.S. Secret Service lead on, or 
what operations do you conduct, what mission do you execute 
that is distinct from the other missions represented by your 
colleagues at other agencies?
    Mr. Sheridan. Our distinction is that our statutory 
authority is focused on financial payment systems, the Nation's 
financial infrastructure, and I think the distinction of trying 
to make singular entities is diluting the concept about this 
being a team sport.
    There is necessary overlap to provide defense in-depth, to 
ensure there's not a single point of failure that the adversary 
can exploit. We do have some overlapping authorities. The 
Secret Service focuses on financial payment systems and the 
Nation's financial infrastructure, which does have some shared 
responsibility, but we are the leading agency related to those 
investigations.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Sheridan. No doubt, 
collaboration is important--is clarity of purpose. In the 
aftermath of recent significant cybersecurity failures, what 
I'm trying to establish is where there is sufficient clarity. 
Mr. Goldstein, would you please comment on how various sectors 
across the U.S., private and public sectors--so, for example, 
the defense industrial base, the financial services industry, 
local governmental entities, the energy sector that's 
represented, for example, by the recent Colonial Pipeline 
breach--how would you rank or contrast their respective levels 
of appropriate investment, preparation, and whether they engage 
in the kind of prudent, and vigilant, and disciplined, and 
well-resourced cybersecurity efforts necessary to protect their 
networks?
    Mr. Goldstein. Thank you, Senator. I'll start by just 
noting that, apart from the agencies participating here today, 
there are a variety of other agencies across the Federal 
Government called sector risk management agencies that have 
unique expertise in promoting prudent risk management, both 
cyber and otherwise, across sectors of the U.S. economy that do 
play a critical role in this team sport, as Mr. Sheridan noted.
    Across sectors, there is certainly significant divergence 
in cybersecurity maturity, both across sectors, but also within 
sectors. Certainly, we have seen significant investment in 
cybersecurity measures and best practices in the financial 
sector, the defense industrial base, and the energy sector. 
That is not to say, of course, that every entity in those 
sectors is equally or even appropriately secure.
    We certainly need to focus on each sector, and really shift 
our focus, as well, on national critical functions. Because we 
know that a function upon which Americans depend--so just 
keeping the lights on, that relies not only on the energy 
utilities, but also the cross-sector entities upon which they 
depend.
    By looking at a functional approach, we can begin to ensure 
that the services that we all rely on remain resilient and 
secure against cyber intrusions.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Goldstein. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Ossoff. Senator, you're 
now recognized.
    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to 
each of you. You know, it's been so interesting. We're having a 
pipeline cybersecurity hearing in Commerce this morning, so 
this is our focus today.
    Director Sheridan, I'd like to come to you. We hear all 
this information, conflicting things between cryptocurrencies 
and cyberattacks. Some people say cryptocurrency is used 
because it's less traceable. Others say, well, it always leaves 
a digital trail, but that law enforcement is not using 
blockchain or other technologies that would work through this. 
We've recently started a financial innovation caucus. I'd love 
to hear from you on this. With cryptocurrency, does it make it 
harder for tracing ransomware attacks?
    Mr. Sheridan. The interesting contradiction is that it 
actually makes it somewhat easier because, as you said, there 
is a digital trail. There are privacy coins and anonymizing 
techniques, such as chain swapping, chain hopping, peel chain 
methodologies and various technological approaches that can add 
layers to that digital trail.
    In that sense, it makes it more difficult. If I handed you 
a $5 bill and asked you where it's been, it would be almost 
impossible to tell. If I handed you a Bitcoin wallet address, 
we would be able to tell what's gone in and what's gone out 
because of the digital evidence.
    It is possible to trace. To your point, we do need to 
expand our resources related to that. We have a very strong 
workforce, a very technically capable workforce, of computer 
scientists, watching analysts, crypto tracers, but we need more 
of them. We need to get better equipped, better trained, and 
expand our presence domestically and internationally related to 
those capabilities.
    Senator Blackburn. Do you have a timeline for moving 
forward with having--being able to set some standards? Have you 
all looked at what this would take? What will it take as far as 
man hours, personnel, training?
    Mr. Sheridan. We do have a very detailed projection in 
terms of timeline, resources, and budget for our ransomware 
approach as it relates to cryptocurrency and other digital 
monies. I----
    Senator Blackburn. Is that information you could share with 
us, with the Committee?
    Mr. Sheridan. Yes, ma'am, I would be happy to.
    Senator Blackburn. I think that would be helpful.
    Director Vorndran, let me ask you. Has the FBI looked into 
using new technologies and blockchain to track and remediate 
some of the ransomware attacks and transactions?
    Mr. Vorndran. Thank you for the question, Senator. To 
amplify what Jeremy Sheridan said, we use the blockchain 
daily----
    Senator Blackburn. Okay.
    Mr. Vorndran [continuing]. Across the organization to 
track--trace Bitcoin, and I think Mr. Sheridan's comments are 
spot on, that in certain cases, it actually makes the tracing 
easier. In certain cases, it makes it more challenging. His 
reference to a $5 bill and understanding its traceability is a 
very good analogy.
    We have many FBI agents, FBI analysts, data operation 
specialists, and other types of personnel in the organization 
that use the blockchain on a daily basis.
    Senator Blackburn. General Downing, let me come to you with 
this. Bulletproof hosters. Hearing about these and the data 
centers, and the companies that allow ransomware to be 
transacted on their servers. Of course, this is something that 
is troubling. That they're setting up overseas and largely 
outside of U.S. law.
    Are there more steps that you all can take to better track 
and shut down these bulletproof hosting operations, at least 
domestically?
    Mr. Downing. Thank you for the question. You've put your 
finger on it. In order for us to have an effective response to 
the ransomware problem, we need to look at all parts of the 
ecosystem. Bulletproof hosting is a particularly--is one of 
those parts. We have at times brought criminal prosecutions 
against the owners of these kinds of bulletproof hosters, where 
we can show that they are well aware that they are contributing 
to criminal activity, but it is, like many parts of this 
problem, made more difficult by the international side of it.
    These actors are very often overseas, and so, we have to 
take steps to build our international partnerships in order to 
arrest them. Those are things we are focused on, though, and we 
will continue to be as part of the overall response to the 
ransomware threat.
    Senator Blackburn. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator. Senator Cotton.
    Senator Cotton. Thank you, Mister Chairman. Mr. Vorndran. 
Thank you. Both Russia and China have tried to undermine 
multiple American industries through sabotage, intellectual 
property theft. American agriculture is no exception. In just 
the last few years, we've seen several hyperbolic examples of 
this.
    In 2016, Chinese researchers were sentenced to Federal 
prison for attempting to steal patented corn seeds and trade 
secrets from American farms. In 2018, Chinese researchers were 
sentenced to Federal prison for trying to steal trade secrets 
from the USDA Dale Bumpers National Rice Research Center, and 
from American Biotech Company. In 2019, a Chinese national was 
indicted on economic espionage charges when he stole a copy of 
a proprietary algorithm for optimizing agricultural 
productivity for farmers.
    This has happened in my home State. There's open 
indictments against Chinese nationals for trying to steal rice-
related intellectual property. I assume they have absconded 
back to mainland China by now. The efforts aren't limited to 
espionage. Just a few weeks ago, a Russian-linked group 
launched cyberattacks against JBS, one of the largest 
meatpackers in the United States. The ransomware attack 
temporarily shut down JBS's cattle slaughtering and resulted in 
JBS paying a Bitcoin ransom of almost $11 million.
    These type of attacks and espionage against agriculture 
don't just threaten the livelihoods of American farmers and 
companies. They also threaten our food supply chain. Do you 
think--do you agree that American agriculture is a target for 
foreign cyber actors who are looking for opportunities to 
attack?
    Mr. Vorndran. Senator, thanks for the question. The answer 
to your question is yes, we believe they are a target. We 
believe everybody is a target. Whoever has a vulnerability, 
there is an adversary out there that will try to exploit it for 
any number of reasons. Number 1 reason: financial gain.
    Senator Cotton. Thank you. Mr. Goldstein, do you agree that 
American agriculture is a target for attack?
    Mr. Goldstein. As my colleague noted, absolutely, but for 
the same reasons as noted. Organizations that are vulnerable 
and can be exploited for profit are certainly a target for 
these adversaries.
    Senator Cotton. Mr. Downing, I wasn't going to ask this 
question, but you committed the cardinal sin of a witness, 
clearly nodding your head. Directing fire in your way----
    Mr. Downing. All right.
    Senator Cotton [continuing]. Now, I'll say do you agree, as 
well?
    Mr. Downing. Yes, no, I think that's exactly right. My--the 
section I supervise were part of some of those prosecutions, 
and we have had some successes in bringing Chinese actors to 
justice in the United States courts.
    Senator Cotton. Since I'm with you, Mr. Downing, then, 
would you agree that it would improve the security of American 
agriculture if the industry and the regulators in Government 
had better and faster information about the threats that they 
might face from foreign cyber actors?
    Mr. Downing. Yes, as we've said repeatedly today, reporting 
from victims is critical. We strongly support the idea that 
Congress take up this issue and to pass legislation that would 
require reporting of a variety of different kinds of attack, 
particularly ransomware, of course, the subject of this issue. 
Also attacks on our critical infrastructures and other high-
risk attacks that would affect especially a wider circle other 
than just the victim.
    Senator Cotton. I'm glad to hear you say that you think 
Congress should take up legislation because I have a bill that 
will do just that. My Agricultural Intelligence Measures Act 
would ensure the USDA has streamlined access to threat 
information relevant to key players in American agriculture. I 
think it's time that we step up and protect America's farmers 
and ranchers from the foreign threats that seek to destroy our 
food supply chain.
    Let me turn to a topic in my time left that I know that 
Senator Klobuchar raised, which is cyber talent recruiting. I 
think, Mr. Vorndran, I'll address this to you, as well. You 
have two types of positions at the FBI is my understanding, 
computer scientists and forensic examiners, that are especially 
important for responding to cyberattacks and investigating the 
hunt--to hunt for cybercriminals who committed them. Cyber 
threats are constantly evolving, of course, and therefore our 
response to those threats also requires to have tech talent 
that is on the cutting edge, is that right?
    Mr. Vorndran. Yes, Senator, that is accurate.
    Senator Cotton. You have to compete for those folks with 
some pretty big companies that can pay pretty generous 
salaries, like Google, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Oracle, 
Facebook, and innumerable startups. That's not even mentioning 
other top cybersecurity companies. Do you find that the high 
demand for the country's best graduates in science, technology, 
engineering, math, and related fields makes it harder to 
recruit and retain some of the best cyber experts?
    Mr. Vorndran. Senator, we have an amazing workforce, and I 
can't underscore that enough. People dedicated to the mission 
and protection of this country. To your question, yes, sir, it 
is hard to recruit the number of people that we need with those 
skill sets.
    Senator Cotton. My office has been in touch with the FBI on 
this issue, and I do respect greatly the workforce you have. I 
do think there are some things that we could do to provide the 
FBI more tools to get the very best talent in our country, and 
to retain them, as well.
    I would liken some of the challenges that you might face to 
stuff I've heard on Armed Services Committee from Air Force 
pilots, who leave the Air Force, not only because they can make 
more pay in the private sector, but because they're not getting 
to do enough of what they joined the Air Force to do, to fly 
high-performance aircraft to focus on bad guys. The 
Government's never going to be able to pay as much as the 
airlines pay, and I suspect the Department of Justice is never 
going to be able to pay as much as Silicon Valley pays, but we 
want to give you every tool possible in the toolkit to make 
sure that we have the very best people working on this problem, 
and that they are fulfilled and rewarded in their job, and want 
to make it a long-term proposition, not a career. My time's 
expired.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Cotton. Thanks to the 
witnesses for joining us today. While we cannot stop ransomware 
attacks completely, we can certainly be better prepared. We 
learned today that preventative measures are more cost-
effective and have greater impact on stemming the rise of these 
attacks than in just increased enforcement alone.
    We also learned how critical information sharing is between 
private and public sectors across Government agencies. What 
struck me about this hearing was there was a general bipartisan 
consensus on this side of the table. I like that. I think 
that's a positive thing, and I hope it leads--I think it will--
to specific legislation to deal with this.
    There was one dissenting voice who blamed the Biden 
administration for the problems of Colonial Pipeline and such. 
I think fairness requires us to be candid about other aspects 
of previous administrations, such as Solarwinds, which was a 
massive breach that affected thousands of companies and the 
U.S. Government. It was discovered not by the U.S. Cyber 
Command, but by another private entity, I understand, named 
FireEye. It's an indication that we can and should strive to do 
better.
    It also is important to note that it wasn't until this 
administration in April made the public declaration connecting 
the Russians to Solarwinds, that that statement became 
accepted. I think that's an indication of the intent of this 
administration, I hope every administration, to keep America 
safe.
    We need to view this problem with a sense of urgency. I 
think that the legislation which you propose, Mr. Downing, is a 
beginning of a conversation with the administration on doing 
this, and as you notice from Senator Whitehouse, Graham, 
Tillis, and Blumenthal, they're anxious to move this forward. 
We want this Committee to facilitate that conversation.
    The hearing record will remain open for 1 week for 
statements. Questions for the record may be submitted by 5 p.m. 
on Tuesday, August 3rd. I thank the witnesses again for being 
here. The hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:58 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                            A P P E N D I X

                                   to

                       AMERICA UNDER CYBER SIEGE:
                       PREVENTING AND RESPONDING

                         TO RANSOMWARE ATTACKS

 Chamber of Digital Commerce, July 27, 2021, statement............   166
 Ransomware 2021, July 2021.......................................   125


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