[Senate Hearing 117-813]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 117-813

                      EXAMINING FEDERAL SENTENCING
                      FOR CRACK AND POWDER COCAINE

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             JUNE 22, 2021

                               __________

                          Serial No. J-117-24

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                        www.judiciary.senate.gov
                            www.govinfo.gov
                            
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
54-573                      WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
                          
                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                   RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont            CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa, Ranking 
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California             Member
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             JOHN CORNYN, Texas
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      TED CRUZ, Texas
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              BEN SASSE, Nebraska
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
ALEX PADILLA, California             TOM COTTON, Arkansas
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
                                     THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                     MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
             Joseph Zogby, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
      Kolan L. Davis, Republican Chief Counsel and Staff Director
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page

Durbin, Hon. Richard J...........................................     1
Grassley, Hon. Charles E.........................................     4
Booker, Hon. Cory A..............................................     5

                               WITNESSES

Charles, Matthew.................................................    27
    Prepared statement...........................................    48

Coleman, Russell.................................................    33
    Prepared statement...........................................    63
    Responses to written questions...............................    78

Garcia, Antonio..................................................    29
    Prepared statement...........................................    51
    Responses to written questions...............................    82

Hutchinson, Asa..................................................     9
    Prepared statement...........................................    58
    Responses to written questions...............................    87

LaBelle, Regina..................................................     8
    Prepared statement...........................................    55
    Questions submitted with no response returned................    72

Wasserman, Steven................................................    31
    Prepared statement...........................................    67
    Responses to written questions...............................    92

                                APPENDIX

Items submitted for the record...................................    47

 
                     EXAMINING FEDERAL SENTENCING,
                      FOR CRACK AND POWDER COCAINE

                              ----------                              


                         TUESDAY, JUNE 22, 2021

                              United States Senate,
                                Committee on the Judiciary,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., in 
Room 106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J. 
Durbin, Chair of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Feinstein, 
Whitehouse, Klobuchar, Coons, Blumenthal, Booker, Ossoff, 
Grassley, Cornyn, Lee, Cruz, Hawley, Tillis, and Blackburn.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,

           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

    Chair Durbin. The hearing will come to order. Today the 
Senate is holding a hearing in this Committee on one of the 
most indefensible disparities in our system of justice and the 
bipartisan legislation designed to eliminate it once and for 
all, The EQUAL Act. To start things off, I'd like to turn to a 
video about the history of this disparity and the racially 
disparate impact it's had.
    [Video is shown.]
    Chair Durbin. In November 1985, The New York Times ran a 
front-page story warning of a ``new purified form of cocaine'' 
that had emerged on the streets of New York City. The article 
characterized the drug as the wave of the future and quoted a 
doctor who claimed that anyone who used it would be addicted 
almost instantaneously. Over the next year, thousands of 
articles and hours of breathless news coverage would be devoted 
to the dangers of crack cocaine, but much of this coverage was 
predicated on an outright falsehood, such as the notion that 
crack is more addictive than powder cocaine or that it's more 
likely to make its users violent.
    Today, several decades removed from our mass panic over 
crack cocaine, we know that powder cocaine and crack are simply 
two forms of the same drug. Make no mistake, both are addictive 
and dangerous. Once they reach the brain, they produce similar 
physiological and psychological effects.
    While the scientific consensus on crack has evolved over 
the years, our Nation's drug sentencing policy has not. At the 
height of the crack scare in 1986, facts fell victim to fear, 
and fear inspired misguided and discriminatory policy. In 
response to a nation in panic, we passed on a bipartisan basis, 
a law that imposed a 100-to-1 sentencing disparity between 
crack cocaine and powder cocaine offenses, the Anti-Drug Abuse 
Act of 1986. To date--to this date, it is one of the worst 
votes I ever cast. That legislation derived from a war-on-
drugs-era mentality that we could somehow incarcerate our way 
out of a drug epidemic. That approach did not work with crack 
cocaine. In fact, it has never worked.
    In the 50 years since President Nixon declared our failed 
war on drugs, drug use and drug availability has increased, our 
Nation has endured a crack epidemic, a meth epidemic, and 
currently an opioid epidemic. By now, I hope we all understand 
that drug addiction is not a choice and just not a moral 
failing, it is a disease. Instead of meeting the public health 
crisis of addiction with care and compassion, we've met it with 
punishment and penalties. The results have been devastating, 
and when it comes to crack cocaine, we established a sentencing 
disparity that has directly fueled the crisis of mass 
incarceration in America.
    During the first four decades of the war on drugs, our 
Federal prison population grew by 700 percent, and the cost of 
operating Federal prisons exploded by 1,100 percent. Those 
bloated costs have diverted public safety resources away from 
where they're needed and have made us less safe. Today, our 
Nation is home to just 4 percent of the world's population and 
about 20 percent of the world's prisoners. In America, we pride 
ourselves as the land of the free, but the sad fact is, we have 
the highest incarceration rate in the world. Worse yet, the 
crack-powder disparity has exacerbated the systemic racial 
inequities in our criminal justice system. We must bring this 
injustice to an end, and we can begin by eliminating the crack-
powder disparity.
    I'm confident we can achieve this on a bipartisan basis. 
Over the years, I've worked with my Republication colleagues 
like Ranking Member Grassley and even former Attorney General 
Sessions to reduce the crack-powder disparity. In 2009, I 
authored the Fair Sentencing Act. The bill I wrote would have 
fully eliminated the crack-powder disparity, but to get it 
across the finish line, I agreed to a compromise version with 
then Senator Jeff Sessions that reduced the disparity from 100-
to-1 to 18-to-1. It was a good step forward, but not enough.
    This lingering disparity means that a person arrested for 
28 grams of crack--do we have that--I guess we don't have the 
illustration. I'll skip that. As I've said, I'm confident we 
can come together to finally resolve this injustice, because 
there are other steps we have taken to address inequities in 
our criminal justice system on an overwhelmingly bipartisan 
basis, like the First Step Act. With that legislation, 
Republicans and Democrats, with President Trump, worked 
together to improve conditions in our Nation's prisons and 
shorten mandatory minimum sentences for nonviolent drug 
offenses.
    We made the Fair Sentencing Act retroactive, allowing 
thousands of people sentenced under the old 100-to-1 disparity 
to petition for early release, including Matthew Charles, who 
will speak to us today. Early evidence suggests that 
retroactive application of the Fair Sentencing Act has worked 
as intended. Last year, the Department of Justice reported that 
the recidivism rate for those released under the First Step Act 
was actually lower than historic recidivism rates.
    This much is clear. Our past efforts of reform have been 
bipartisan, and they're working. The task that now lies before 
us is finishing the job we've started by eliminating this 
disparity altogether. It has no basis in science. It's done 
nothing to make us safer. It serves only to undermine trust in 
our system of justice, especially among Black Americans, who 
are six times, six times, more likely to be in prison on drug 
charges than white Americans, even though the drug use is at a 
similar rate between them. What's more, legal experts and 
political leaders of all stripes agree Congress needs to finish 
this job.
    When I chaired a Subcommittee hearing on this issue in 
2009, the Department of Justice testified in support of 
completely eliminating the disparity. Today, 12 years later, 
the Department of Justice again is calling for Congress to 
eliminate it, in written testimony. I welcome the Republican 
Governor of Arkansas, Asa Hutchinson, who testified at our 2009 
hearing, again with us today, calling for Congress to pass the 
EQUAL Act. Thank you, Governor.
    Before I hand things off to Ranking Member Grassley, I want 
to tell a story that is important and very personal. Ranking 
Member Grassley has been an invaluable and trusted partner in 
this effort. I know that he feels, as I do, that there are 
thousands of people who should be seeing justice in this 
country who are not, because of these guidelines. One person I 
will never forget is a woman, Eugenia Jennings. She was 
originally from Alton, Illinois. As a child, she was abandoned 
and seriously abused. At the age of 15, she started using crack 
to dull the pain of her life. At 23, she was convicted for 
trading a small amount of crack for clothing for her kids.
    The Federal judge, a personal friend of mine, Patrick 
Murphy, delivered her sentence, and he said, quote, ``This is 
not a sentence I am happy with. I'm not proud of it. Congress 
has determined that the best way to handle people who are 
troublesome is just lock them up.'' Eugenia Jennings, at the 
age of 23, was sentenced to 22 years in a Federal prison for a 
nonviolent offense.
    She never gave up hope. While serving her time, she was a 
model prisoner who did everything asked of her. Years into her 
sentence, she developed a rare and serious form of cancer, 
leukemia. I'll never forget the day that I personally met her 
in the Federal prison in Greenville, Illinois. I sat down with 
this lady and talked for over an hour. At the end of it, she 
said, ``I don't know how much longer I'm going to live, 
Senator, but I promise you this. If you can find some way to 
get me out of this prison to be with my girls, I'll never do 
anything wrong again in my life.''
    I sat down and wrote a personal note to a former Senator 
from Illinois named Barack Obama and asked him to commute 
Eugenia's sentence. He did, and just in time for Eugenia to see 
her eldest daughter graduate from high school. She died less 
than 2 years later, at the age of 36.
    As we approach the end of the graduation season this month, 
I'd like us all to think about Eugenia. When she entered 
prison, her daughter was 6 years old. The next time she saw her 
in the outside world, her daughter was a young woman. Eugenia 
missed her daughter's first day of high school, her prom, and 
so many other rites of passage, and I want to salute her 
brother, Cedric Parker, who was on the video, the earlier 
video. He raised those kids while Eugenia was in prison, but 
Eugenia missed them because the mythology surrounding crack 
cocaine still dictates Federal policy.
    Eugenia's gone, but there're still so many people like her, 
counting on us to finally eliminate this disparity. Let's not 
wait another day.
    I recognize Ranking Member Grassley for his opening 
statement.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES E. GRASSLEY,

             A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF IOWA

    Senator Grassley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this 
hearing. Before I begin my statement, just a comment. No 
disagreement with the statistics you use, in regard to 4 
percent of our population and 20 percent of--our imprisonment 
is greater than any other society. Just a question that I don't 
expect you to answer, and maybe there's no answer to it, but do 
those figures include the Uighurs, the millions of Uighurs that 
the Chinese have in prison in their concentration camps?
    Chair Durbin. That's a very good point.
    Senator Grassley. I'd like to have--see if we could find an 
answer to that.
    Drug sentencing laws are complex. They must be fair, and 
they must be just, but prioritizing public safety is very 
important. As such, they can't be based only on violent crime 
risks, prevention efforts, or racial justice concerns. They 
must be comprehensive. This is particularly true as we evaluate 
today's topic, sentencing laws on crack and powder cocaine.
    I've been a partner on this issue in the past. You've 
recognized that today, and I appreciate that. I've indicated my 
openness to re-evaluating the sentencing disparity between 
crack and powder cocaine, but I do have some questions about 
how to best do this. There are discrepancies between crack and 
powder cocaine, in terms of recidivism rates, addiction, and 
violent crime. These factors can't be ignored.
    I'm hopeful today's testimony will touch on these aspects, 
but I believe a comprehensive consensus hearing on cocaine 
certainly would've highlighted these nuanced points. I asked 
Chairman Durbin for a comprehensive hearing on cocaine, so that 
we can have a complete understanding of all these issues. I 
wanted a consensus hearing, meaning that everything was agreed 
upon and that there were no minority or majority witnesses, but 
that's not how this hearing unfolded. Today's hearing isn't 
consensus, nor is it as comprehensive as it should be. Instead, 
this hearing is focused only on sentencing issues, particularly 
in deference to the EQUAL Act, and I have told people that I'm 
willing to look at some sort of reduction in the disparity that 
exists today.
    I'm disappointed that my request for a comprehensive 
hearing on cocaine was dismissed, particularly since I've 
supported efforts to review crack and powder cocaine sentencing 
issues in the past. I Co-Sponsored the Fair Sentencing Act, 
which changed the 101-to-1 sentencing ratio for crack and 
powder cocaine to where it is today, 18-to-1. I supported this 
change being made retroactive in the First Step Act. I joined 
an amicus brief submitted to the Supreme Court to review the 
applicability of this provision, and I Co-Sponsored the First 
Step Implementation Act, which further allows for retroactive 
review and application of cocaine sentencing.
    We've accomplished a lot in this area already, and maybe 
there's more that can be done, and I've already indicated my 
willingness to talk about those things. Today's hearing is 
likely the first of many steps on cocaine sentencing, because 
there's still a lot that we need to know. Today's Government 
panel, for instance, shines a light on the vacuum of 
information Congress is operating in. The Department of Justice 
submitted a statement for the record in support of the EQUAL 
Act.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    The Biden Justice Department support for this bill isn't 
surprising. It's the same position as the Obama administration, 
but nobody from the Justice Department is here to testify. 
DOJ's absence makes it hard to fully evaluate and understand 
the scope and impact of changing the law. While the United 
States Sentencing Commission has released excellent reports on 
Federal drug sentencing laws, its most recent comprehensive 
report on cocaine sentencing was as far back as 2007. Also, the 
last time the Sentencing Commission testified before the Senate 
on this issue was way back, 2009. At that time, they stated the 
sentencing ratio of crack and powder cocaine shouldn't be 
higher than 20-to-1. It's currently at 18-to-1.
    Where does all this leave us now? I'm worried we're 
barreling down legislation without a complete picture of the 
issue or the necessary Government witnesses before us today. 
I'm nonetheless looking forward to hearing this hearing. 
Learning as much as I can and discussing steps forward. I'd 
like to be involved in those steps forward. I hope the future 
of this discussion will highlight a variety of perspectives and 
be more collaborative as we seek to find a solution together. 
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Grassley. Our work 
together is a body of work which I'm most proud of, and I want 
to continue it. Though we may have had a disagreement about the 
elements and procedures today, there's no fundamental 
disagreement between us, and I look forward to working with you 
to have a complete hearing on all the important issues that 
face us.
    I'll now turn to Senator Booker, the Chair of the Judiciary 
Subcommittee on Criminal Justice and Counterterrorism, for an 
opening statement.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CORY A. BOOKER,

          A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY

    Senator Booker. Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the 
opportunity to speak for a brief time at the top of this 
hearing. I would like to submit my formal opening remarks for 
the record.
    I want to share with my colleagues, you know, there's 
guiding principles to this country, where we aspire to the 
highest ideals of humanity. It's what our Constitution is based 
upon, by our Founding Fathers, who sought to make our Nation 
one that best evidenced the ideals not just of humanity but of 
divine providence. There is a--from the Abrahamic faiths, it's 
an ideal. Come from Micah, ``What do you want, O Lord, from 
your people?'', which is to do justice, to love mercy, and to 
walk humbly. This is one of those areas of law where we have 
created this disparity that, to me, violate those highest 
ideals in a way that I can't identify as great as this in other 
areas.
    I have had the privilege in my life of living in different 
types of communities. I lived and grew up in a wealthy 
community where my family was the only Black family there. In 
communities of wealth and privilege, I saw drug use and know 
lots of people who were violating our laws. I've lived for the 
last 20 years in a low-income, Black and brown community, and I 
see the same human frailties. The consequences for those 
lawbreakers is very different. When it comes to crack and 
powder cocaine, it has been stunning to me to see how this law 
has so terribly impacted the lives of folks, many of whom--who 
need help, many of them who need treatment, but devastated 
their lives with this disproportionate sentencing.
    I am trying to live up to those ideals of humility. I've 
listened very closely to all of the arguments that have been 
against changing this, and I've been quite satisfied by the 
data. I appreciate Chairman Grassley talking about the 
concerns, because both sides of the aisle share the same 
concern: public safety, public safety. All the data that I can 
find that from objective sources gives no credence or validity 
to some of the concerns that I hear most often. For example, in 
2014, the Sentencing Commission, looking at the retroactive 
reduction in crack cocaine guidelines, found that retroactive 
sentence reductions did not result in higher recidivism rates. 
The data is very clear.
    I've heard concerns expressed about violent crime, that 
somehow crack cocaine users, unlike powder cocaine users--and, 
again, there's dramatic racial disparities--that somehow those 
crack cocaine users were more likely to be engaged in violent 
crime. I looked, with humility, toward the validity of those 
arguments, and objective sources say, time and time again, that 
is not the case.
    Again, recent data dispels this notion that crack offenses 
account for a higher rate of weapons possession than powder 
cocaine. According to the data from the USSC in FY 2020, more 
Federal offenders charged with powder cocaine offenses carried 
weapons--490--than those charged with crack cocaine offenses--
468. In fact, it's the opposite. The data shows that powder 
cocaine folks are more likely to have weapons. For me, there is 
no substantive reason, from the actual chemical--they are the 
same substance--all the way to the allegations that somehow 
this will lead to more violence, will lead to more recidivism. 
This is just not the case.
    What is the case is that this has created within our 
society deeper schisms along racial lines, where certain people 
have had their lives devastated by this disparity. This is not 
justice. This is not those high ideals of humanity that we talk 
about in our most sacred civic documents, like the ideals of 
equal justice under the law.
    I am so encouraged that this is a bipartisan effort, that 
there are numerous Republicans in the House, and Senator 
Portman here, that are working with us in a bipartisan way to 
end this stain of injustice in our community. I am so happy 
that the very people who are out there enforcing our laws--from 
law enforcement organizations, National District Attorneys, the 
Americans for Prosperity, the Due Process Institute, 
FreedomWorks, law enforcement leader after law enforcement 
leader, are working together. From Right on Crime to the very 
Sentencing Project are working together to end what is a 
shameful chapter in our country.
    You had Richard Nixon up there. All of us are mountain 
ranges; I do not vilify anyone. We have all made good 
contributions and tough contributions. You know, I want to end 
with these words by Ehrlichman that really were at the 
beginnings of the war on drugs, that sought to prey upon our 
prejudices, to somehow deal with Black communities different 
than others.
    Ehrlichman, later in his life, admitted that so much of the 
source of fear of Black people was a political strategy. ``We 
knew,'' he says, quoting him, ``that we couldn't make it 
illegal to be either against the war or being Black.'' He says 
that these were the two groups that were most likely to be 
against them. ``But by getting the public to associate hippies 
with marijuana and Blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing 
both heavily, we could disrupt these communities. We could 
arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their 
meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening 
news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we 
did.''
    I live in a community now that, for a generation, has been 
vilified. That on the evening news, we made people afraid. 
Where words like ``super predators'' and others were heaped 
upon Black communities. We have been devastated, in this 
country, as a result of the disproportionate incarceration of 
African Americans, even though there's no difference, no 
difference in America, in the usage-of-drug rates along racial 
lines. We need to end this nightmare. It is not just hurting 
African-American communities; it is a stain upon our highest 
ideals of humanity. We must, as a Senate, do as Micah commands. 
Do justice, show mercy, and walk humbly with our Lord. Thank 
you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Booker. Senator Cotton, as 
Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, will be 
given an opportunity to submit opening remarks.
    In the meantime, we will return to our witnesses in the 
first panel. We welcome two distinguished witnesses to testify 
about the continued disparities. Our first witness is Regina 
LaBelle, the Acting Director of the Office of National Drug 
Control Policy. Director LaBelle is also a distinguished 
scholar and program director of the Addiction and Public Policy 
Initiative at Georgetown Law's O'Neill Institute for National 
and Global Health Law.
    Our second witness is Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson, 
whom I welcome back. Governor Hutchinson has served in his 
current role, since 2015, as Governor. We see him every Sunday 
morning on the news. Previously, he served as a U.S. attorney, 
a U.S. Congressman, and Director of the U.S. Drug Enforcement 
Agency. I'll lay out the mechanics of today's hearing after we 
swear in the witnesses on the first panel.
    Each witness will have 5 minutes for opening statements, 
then rounds of questions from the Senators, at 5 minutes each. 
I ask them to please stick close to 5 minutes, if you can. 
Following that, we'll switch to our second panel, and Chairman 
Booker, depending on the votes on the floor and such, may take 
over that responsibility with 5-minute opening statements and 5 
minutes of questions from each.
    I'd ask if the witnesses on the first panel would please 
stand to be sworn.
    [Witnesses are sworn in.]
    Let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the 
affirmative. Director LaBelle, please proceed.

              STATEMENT OF REGINA LABELLE, ACTING

               DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG

                 CONTROL POLICY, WASHINGTON, DC

    Director LaBelle. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, Committee 
Members, thank you for inviting me to testify on the important 
issue of eliminating the sentencing disparity that remains 
between sentences for people charged with trafficking of crack 
versus powder cocaine. The Biden-Harris administration strongly 
supports eliminating the current disparity in sentencing 
between crack and powder cocaine. The current disparity is not 
based on evidence. It has caused significant harm for decades, 
particularly for individuals, families, and communities of 
color. The continuation of the sentencing disparity is a 
significant injustice in our legal system, and it's past time 
for it to end. Therefore, the administration urges the swift 
passage of the Eliminating a Quantifiably Unjust Application of 
the Law Act, or the EQUAL Act.
    The Biden-Harris administration is taking an evidence-based 
approach to drug policy, and eliminating this disparity is in 
alignment with that approach. I'd like to highlight some of the 
significant evidence to support this position. First, the 
sentencing disparity is not based on sound scientific evidence. 
We currently have a system under which the same offense, 
distribution of cocaine, results in radically different 
sentences depending on the form of cocaine, even though both 
formulations affect the brain in the same way.
    Research suggests that the 100-to-1 sentencing disparity 
under the Anti-Drug Abuse Act did not result in decreased crack 
cocaine use. Similarly, the reduction of the mandatory 
sentencing disparity to 18-to-1, under the Fair Sentencing Act, 
was not associated with an increase in crack cocaine use. 
However, data published by the United States Sentencing 
Commission has shown that a higher percentage of Black 
Americans are convicted in Federal court for crack cocaine 
offenses versus powder cocaine offenses, and the sentencing 
disparity has caused them to receive substantially longer 
average sentence lengths for comparable offenses.
    To put this in perspective, under the original 100-to-1 
sentencing disparity, a 5-year mandatory minimum penalty would 
be triggered by trafficking 5 grams of crack, whereas the same 
penalty would only be triggered if someone trafficked 500 grams 
of powder cocaine. Under the original law, simple possession of 
any amount of crack cocaine exceeding 5 grams incurred a 5-year 
mandatory penalty, but there was no corresponding mandatory 
penalty for powder cocaine possession.
    Under the original sentencing disparity, on average, Black 
Americans were incarcerated for nonviolent offenses for almost 
the same length of time as white Americans who committed 
violent offenses. In 2010, Congress took the important step to 
reduce this disparity to 18-to-1. However, in the past two 
fiscal years, Black Americans accounted for 81 percent and 77 
percent of all Federal crack cocaine convictions, respectively. 
Because of the disparity, these convictions led to prison time 
far longer than they would have been for equivalent amounts of 
powder cocaine.
    This sentencing disparity is part of a larger system with 
separate, unequal tracks for people of color and white people 
in the United States who use drugs or have a substance use 
disorder. In 2018, the rate of incarceration for Hispanics was 
3 times that of white Americans, and the incarceration rate for 
Black Americans was 5.6 times that of white Americans. These 
racial inequities are not limited to criminal justice. When 
looking at access to substance use treatment, a recent study 
showed that Black individuals generally enter treatment 4 to 5 
years later than white individuals, even when controlling for 
socioeconomic status, and in Hispanic communities, those who 
need treatment for substance use disorder are less likely to 
access care than non-Hispanics.
    We know that substance use disorders can become chronic 
conditions over time, and years spent without treatment and in 
incarcerated settings can both exacerbate substance use 
disorder and lead to other societal issues. President Biden has 
emphasized the need to address racial inequities in the 
criminal justice system. For example, he's been clear people 
should not be incarcerated for drug use alone but should 
instead be offered treatment. As a Senator, in 2007 he 
introduced legislation to eliminate the sentencing disparity 
entirely, and it's long past time to do this.
    ONDCP's charge has always been to reduce drug use and its 
consequences, and for far too long, our Nation's approach to 
addressing substance use has led to disproportionate 
consequences for communities of color. If we follow the 
evidence and advance equity, as President Biden has directed 
our agency to do, we need to eliminate the sentencing 
disparity.
    In closing, the Biden-Harris administration supports the 
EQUAL Act and a complete elimination of the unfair sentencing 
disparity between crack and powder cocaine. This was based on 
inaccurate and unsound assumptions and has caused 
disproportionate harm to our most vulnerable communities. Thank 
you for your time, and thank you for holding this important 
hearing that we hope will lead to real change.
    [The prepared statement of Director LaBelle appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you very much. Governor Hutchinson.

             STATEMENT OF ASA HUTCHINSON, GOVERNOR,

            STATE OF ARKANSAS, LITTLE ROCK, ARKANSAS

    Governor Hutchinson. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, for your 
comments today. Ranking Member Grassley and Members of the 
Committee. In 2009, I appeared before this Committee, as was 
noted by the Chairman, and I appeared here on the same subject, 
expressing my support for reducing or eliminating the disparity 
of sentencing between crack and powder cocaine cases. As a 
result of the work of this Committee, in 2010 the sentencing 
disparity was reduced down to 18-to-1, but as noted, the work 
is not yet finished, and I'm honored to be back today to 
express my continued support for eliminating that disparity and 
creating a greater sense of fairness in our criminal justice 
system.
    As noted, I've served this country in a variety of law 
enforcement positions, from a Federal prosecutor to 
administrator of the DEA, and now, as Governor, I continue to 
be concerned about, first of all, reducing illegal drug use and 
reducing the supply, but also--very concerned about fairness in 
our criminal justice system. From my State perspective--and let 
me just take a moment.
    The presence of crack and powder cocaine is down in 
Arkansas. Arkansas is part of the Gulf Coast HIDTA, High 
Intensity Drug Trafficking Area, and the latest drug assessment 
is that cocaine is ranked as the fifth greatest drug threat and 
is considered a moderate threat within the Gulf Coast HIDTA 
region. If you look at the statistics, we've had total pounds 
of cocaine seized decrease by 42 percent from 2019 to 2020. 
That's a nationwide statistic. Arkansas has adopted, or at 
least we have in place, the 1-to-1 ratio for crack versus 
powder cocaine in our State. I believe that is the right 
standard that should be set, and let me summarize the need for 
eliminating the sentencing disparity.
    First of all, as been noted by our director of ONDCP, the 
substances are chemically the same, and therefore they should 
be treated the same for sentencing purposes. It's a fundamental 
principle. Second, as noted by Senator Booker and others, 
there's a disproportionate harm to communities of color. The 
Sentencing Commission data shows that, in 2019, 81 percent of 
crack cocaine defendants were Black. In the--2020, it was 76 
percent of crack cocaine defendants were Black. Obviously, 
whenever you sentence them to a higher level of punishment, 
that is a disproportionate impact on African Americans. What's 
interesting is that the SAMS data shows that crack cocaine 
users are predominantly white, and so that adds to the sense of 
unfairness in our criminal justice system.
    That leads to the third reason, which is fundamental, and 
that is that the sentencing disparity is unfair. Just as 
importantly, it is perceived as unfair and undermines 
confidence in our criminal justice system, in which all those 
in law enforcement understands how critical a sense of fairness 
is to achieving cooperation, respect, and to reinforce the rule 
of law. Unfairness erodes cooperation, whether it's the 
development of informants, to the ability to get cooperation, 
to the working up the ladder of drug trafficking organizations.
    Confidence in equal treatment under the law is the 
foundation of our rule of law, and it is currently being 
undermined by that disparity. I know it's been addressed that 
there is more violence associated with crack cocaine, and there 
might be some disagreement on the statistics there, but however 
you conclude that topic, we have to recognize that the 
sentencing guidelines has factors that will recognize the 
degree of firearm use, whether there are victims that have been 
harmed, and the criminal record of the defendant. All of those 
are factors that can be brought to bear on the ultimate 
sentence, versus using a much more unreliable indicator for 
length of sentence, which would be the quantity. The sentencing 
guidelines have plenty of leeway to account for violent crime 
might be associated with crack cocaine use, versus simply 
utilizing quantity as a chief indicator.
    With that, I'm very honored to be here before many 
colleagues that I respect, and this Committee and the work of 
it, and I look forward to the question time. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Governor Hutchinson appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Governor. Acting Director LaBelle, 
from a scientific perspective, is there any rational 
justification for reducing the sentencing disparity?
    Director LaBelle. There--the scientific basis of both base 
cocaine, which is crack cocaine, and powder cocaine--they're 
similar, and they have similar effects on the brain. The issue 
is how the drug is used. That's been the issue in the past. 
Really, the drugs themselves, the form of the drug, is 
essentially the same.
    Chair Durbin. I don't know if this illustration will be 
effective or not. [Holds up bags of flour.] First, this is 
flour, and this is an indication of the amount of powder 
cocaine that would result in the sentencing for this weighted 
amount of crack cocaine, 100-to-1.
    Unidentified Speaker: Eighteen.
    Eighteen to one. I'm sorry, 18-to-1, which is an indication 
that, if there's no science between the difference, the 
sentencing is dramatically different. I think that is the 
simple, direct point we're trying to make at this hearing.
    Governor Hutchinson, you have seen this war on drugs from 
so many angles. I can't think of a person who has the kind of 
experience you do. U.S. Attorney for the Western District of 
Arkansas, Member of the House, Administrator of the Drug 
Enforcement Administration, Undersecretary for Border and 
Transportation Security, and now Governor of Arkansas. I can't 
tell you how much I appreciate your candor about the impact 
that this has on respect for the law in some communities, when 
African Americans disproportionately are penalized for this 
sentencing disparity; what it must mean to the community. Have 
you seen this firsthand, as Governor of your State or in your 
previous assignments?
    Governor Hutchinson. I have seen it in really all of the 
assignments that you recited, and there's probably no one that 
supports our law enforcement more than me. I've been a part of 
it, I believe in them, I want to encourage them, and in each of 
the roles that I've seen, unfairness undermines the respect for 
the law, and that is so important to our law enforcement 
officers. From a personal perspective, it's been different as 
Governor, because I've seen clemency and pardon applications 
come across my desk in which I've seen the unfairness play out 
in the criminal justice system, and even though we have a 1-to-
1 ratio here in Arkansas, you still see the consequences of 
severe penalties for a simple possession, multiple possessions 
of drugs. You see the heartache, and you want to do everything 
you can to eliminate unfairness so that we'll gain respect both 
for law enforcement and for the system.
    Chair Durbin. I think that's what I tried to allude to in 
my opening remarks. The personal and family devastation of long 
sentences and what it--I'm amazed that any of these prisoners 
can come back, and I've seen so many of them come back after 
serving long periods of time, to rebuild their families and 
rebuild their lives, but it is devastating. I just want to add 
one other element here. This sentencing disparity is not a 
creation of law enforcement. It is a creation of legislators. 
Congressmen, Senators who've come up with these laws on 
sentencing disparities.
    It is no reflection on law enforcement. It's our reflection 
on us and what we have done in establishing these standards of 
sentencing, and I think that's why we have such an awesome 
responsibility. I can't thank you both enough for being here 
today, your testimony. Senator Grassley.
    Senator Grassley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to 
start out with Director LaBelle. According to the Institute on 
Drug Abuse, treatment for stimulant addiction, including 
cocaine abuse, is an under-researched area. Unlike treating 
opioid abuse, there aren't any approved medications to treat 
cocaine addiction. The majority of those seeking treatment for 
cocaine smoke crack and are likely to be polydrug users.
    Our Federal drug sentencing laws should avoid creating more 
victims and addicts in vulnerable communities. However, if we 
end up legislating on crack and powder cocaine sentencing, we 
should all be in agreement that deterring drug trafficking is 
vitally important. First, do you agree, and second, would you--
would more research in cocaine dosage amounts, treatment 
options, prevention tactics, and addictiveness of cocaine be 
helpful?
    Director LaBelle. Thank you, Senator, for that important 
question. I came here from the Interdiction Committee. ONDCP, 
as you know, has a wide array of authorities, including drug 
interdiction, and so we are looking very closely at the efforts 
that need to be taken to reduce drug trafficking coming into 
the United States and then inside the United States. Certainly, 
we agree and appreciate--it's one of our policy priorities, is 
reducing the supply of drugs coming into the country and then 
drug trafficking in the country.
    Second, in your piece, we totally agree that we need a 
whole-of-government approach and to look at the continuum of 
care for people with substance use disorder. Prevention--
preventing substance use disorders and substance use from ever 
occurring is an essential part of our strategy, just as 
treatment is an essential part of our strategy. As you said, 
there is no medication for cocaine use disorder, but that 
doesn't mean there aren't effective treatments. We're looking 
at the barriers that exist to one of the most effective forms 
of treatment for cocaine use disorder. Those are things that--
we appreciate Congress's investments, significant investments, 
through the American Rescue Plan and through the President's 
budget that's been sent to the Hill. There's $10 billion to be 
spent on addressing the demand side of the equation, and then 
also we support money and investments on the supply side. Thank 
you.
    Senator Grassley. Your agency is tasked with making and 
coordinating our nationwide drug control strategy. Your office 
released a statement of drug policy priorities earlier this 
year. It mentioned that we must reduce the supply of illicit 
drugs. I think an effective way to stop the supply of deadly 
drugs is to have an effective and consistent drug control laws 
on the books. This is true for all controlled substances.
    I'm confused why your statement on drug policy priorities 
didn't outline a permanently--how permanently scheduling 
fentanyl analogs would be essential to reduce their supplies. 
Do you think permanently scheduling fentanyl-related substances 
in the United States would reduce the supply of these illicit 
drugs?
    Director LaBelle. You've pointed out an incredibly 
important issue, which is the fentanyl and fentanyl analogs in 
the United States. We know that, of the 90,000 overdose deaths 
from last year, from 2020, that 75 percent of them involved 
an--a fentanyl or fentanyl analog. What we're doing is working 
with the interagency to make sure that we can present to 
Congress a solution on the permanent scheduling or scheduling 
of fentanyl analogs. We're working with DOJ, DEA, and our 
partners at HHS to send something to the Hill by the fall.
    Senator Grassley. Are you working with Members of Congress 
to do that? Because I'm committed to working with anybody that 
wants to work with--on this issue, and working in a bipartisan 
way with Congress to make sure fentanyl-related substances are 
permanently scheduled would be very helpful. Are you doing 
that?
    Director LaBelle. Certainly, sir. We're--I know that my 
staff has met with your staff. We just sent a letter, and we're 
happy to have ongoing conversations.
    Senator Grassley. Quickly, I'm not going to give a lead-in 
to this question, because I don't have time. Can you agree with 
me that these kinds of considerations are critical to review, 
along with racial justice concerns? How can we ensure these 
factors are considered when reviewing drug sentencing laws?
    I realize I couldn't leave out the lead-in. I mentioned in 
my opening remarks how there are many factors that must be 
considered when reviewing sentencing laws of crack and powder 
cocaine. This includes recidivism data, violent crime, 
addictiveness, and racial issues. According to the Sentencing 
Commission, crack offenders receive a weapons sentencing 
enhancement more often than powder traffickers. Also, of all 
drug trafficking offenders, crack cocaine dealers recidivate at 
a highest rate. Do I need to repeat my question?
    Director LaBelle. I think the main issue that you've raised 
is one of--that when people leave incarceration, they often 
recidivate. One of the reasons that happens is because when 
people are incarcerated, they may not get the treatment that 
they need for their substance use disorder. That substance use 
disorder doesn't go away simply because they are incarcerated. 
If someone has a cocaine use disorder, when they're 
incarcerated they should be receiving treatment for that 
cocaine use disorder so that when they leave, they won't 
recidivate. I think that's one of the issues that ONDCP is 
taking on in our policy priorities and working on in our drug 
strategy.
    Senator Grassley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. Senator Feinstein.
    Senator Feinstein. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Governor 
Hutchinson, as the former head of DEA under President Bush, the 
first Undersecretary for Border and Transportation Security at 
DHS, and a former U.S. attorney, your law enforcement 
credentials speak for themselves, yet you have repeatedly and 
publicly advocated for the elimination of the sentencing 
disparity between crack and powder cocaine. I'm not being 
critical, but I think your views are really important in this 
discussion, because you have this extensive background in law 
enforcement and you have a career in public service. What led 
you to speak out so much and so eloquently on this issue?
    Governor Hutchinson. Thank you, Senator Feinstein. Being 
personally aware of unfairness should call us all to speak out, 
just as Members of this Committee has. You know, in the 1980's 
when President Reagan--we started, really, the tough side of 
the fight against drugs, which was--we--our targets, you know, 
whenever we had our asset seizures, all of those things 
toughened our fight against illegal drugs, and it really wasn't 
until I got to Congress that, working with some of the--my 
colleagues on the Judiciary Committee, that I saw how the 
application of those--the disparate sentencing laws impacted 
our community and the respect for our law, and so I----
    Senator Feinstein. Are you----
    Governor Hutchinson [continuing]. Started speaking out.
    Senator Feinstein [continuing]. Referring to the 100-to-1 
sentencing disparity?
    Governor Hutchinson. Yes, I'm referring to--the 100-to-1 
sentencing disparity was unconscionable, in my view. It was not 
based upon good science. It ought to be changed because it was 
unfair.
    Senator Feinstein. We're 35 years later, and do you believe 
that our understanding of the situation is better?
    Governor Hutchinson. I do. We understand the science 
better, we understand the impact, we understand the unfairness 
of it. It's supported by statistics, and we also, you know, 
have a good sentencing grid that can address the other issues 
of violence associated with crime. We do understand it better, 
and that should lead us to take the final step to eliminate 
completely that disparity.
    Senator Feinstein. Thank you very much. I think that's very 
powerful testimony. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Feinstein. Senator Cornyn.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. LaBelle, I've 
read over the Biden Administration's Statement of drug policy 
priorities for year one, and I appreciate your testimony about 
the importance of follow-on services for people who are 
released from incarceration, so that they don't repeat their 
mistakes. To that end, Senator Whitehouse and I recently 
introduced a bill called the Residential Substance Use Disorder 
Treatment Act of 2021, which would expand the use of 
substance--would expand access to substance use treatments in 
jails and prisons. I'm certainly with you on that and want to 
continue to support those efforts.
    In my State, in Texas, part of what we did on prison reform 
is give people access to programs when they're in prison and 
hope they don't recidivate once they get out, but it really 
required follow-on services. We can't just expect that we're 
going to let somebody out of prison and then they're not going 
to go back to the same old neighborhood and be exposed to the 
same old temptations, perhaps, and the same old associates.
    Other than supporting the High Intensity Drug Trafficking 
Areas program and attempting to work with commercial carriers 
to intercept synthetic drugs being moved through postal and 
parcel systems, what do you intend to do in your office to 
improve domestic drug enforcement?
    Director LaBelle. Thank you, Senator, for that question. 
ONDCP, as you said, has many aspects to it. What we try to do 
is look at source countries, so, Colombia, Mexico, et cetera, 
and that's the first step, to keep the drugs from coming into 
the United States. As you asked about domestic work, we have 
the High Intensity Drug Trafficking Areas program, and they 
work extensively with their State and local partners to disrupt 
drug trafficking. A lot of our work is really focused on 
working with the HIDTAs, having partnerships with the Drug 
Enforcement Administration, and making sure that all the pieces 
are in place to support law enforcement, first of all, to 
divert people away from the criminal justice system, to support 
law enforcement, to disrupt drug trafficking networks, and 
then, last, for people who are involved in criminal justice, as 
you said, making sure they get the supports they need, both 
while they're incarcerated and upon re-entry.
    Senator Cornyn. Do you recall how many Americans died of 
drug overdoses in the last year?
    Director LaBelle. Certainly, sir. There were 92,000. That's 
as of October 2020.
    Senator Cornyn. Do you agree with me that a lot of those 
drugs come across our southwestern border?
    Director LaBelle. The--what we know is that 75 percent of 
the 92,000 overdose deaths involved fentanyl, and fentanyl--
right now, the most of the fentanyl is coming from Mexico.
    Senator Cornyn. Ninety percent of the heroin that comes to 
this country comes from Mexico, too. Is that--do you agree with 
that figure?
    Director LaBelle. I believe that's the current figure.
    Senator Cornyn. Okay. We ought to all be concerned, should 
we not--shouldn't the Biden administration be concerned about 
the overwhelming flood of people coming at the border, 
including unaccompanied children, and diverting the Border 
Patrol from their law enforcement function, to taking care of 
these unaccompanied children? Shouldn't that be a matter of 
concern?
    Director LaBelle. What ONDCP is doing--and yesterday, 
actually, I met with the Mexican Ambassador to the United 
States--is talking to them about their ports, about the 
fentanyl coming into their country, to--again, to keep it from 
even getting to the border, so, disrupting labs in Mexico. 
Those are many of the high-level dialogs that we're having with 
Mexican officials.
    Senator Cornyn. Do you know how much of Mexico is 
controlled by the cartels, as opposed to the government?
    Director LaBelle. It's significant, sir.
    Senator Cornyn. Right. It is significant. It's frightening, 
in fact. You didn't answer my question about diverting Border 
Patrol, but we'll move on to something else.
    Governor Hutchinson, I have a lot of respect for your 
public service, and certainly, I've followed it and worked with 
you off and on over the years. I'm trying to figure out how 
this disparity issue would apply in other contexts, not just a 
cocaine--crack versus powder, because if you had the little 
bags of flour that Senator Durbin had, that he showed, with the 
18-to-1 disparity, and you had heroin in one and you had 
fentanyl in another, there would be a--fentanyl's a whole lot 
more powerful, as I understand it, than heroin, and I'm just 
wondering, across different types of opioid, let's say, for 
example, prescription drugs, heroin, and fentanyl, do you think 
this same principle can be applied? I'm just wondering how that 
would work.
    Governor Hutchinson. I think that's an excellent question, 
and I think there is a reason for a broader discussion about 
our sentencing policy in relation to drugs. They're ultimately 
set by Congress, and you have to look at the impact. You have 
to look at the chemical qualities of it. I think we've made a 
determination based upon science, as to the similarity between 
crack and powder cocaine, but obviously there's distinctions 
between fentanyl, which deserves all of the resources and 
investigation that's possible, because of the harm that is 
being done. I think those are very good discussions. I do 
believe, as I said, that quantity is not always the best 
indicator as to culpability and consequences and punishment. It 
should be many more factors simply than quantity.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Cornyn. Senator 
Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, and thank 
you for your long determination on this issue. It's much 
appreciated.
    I want to just open by echoing Governor Hutchinson's 
comment that the--many of the factors that have been used to 
argue for the sentencing disparity actually turn up separately 
in the sentencing guidelines, and so to the extent that there 
are dangers associated with certain episodes of crack cocaine 
dealing, the sentencing guidelines are capable of taking that 
up, and a judge is capable of ruling on that. I thought that 
was a very important point and something that I certainly saw 
in my time as U.S. attorney. Thank you, Governor, for that.
    Ms. LaBelle, I want to double down on my friend Senator 
Cornyn's reference to our Residential Substance Use Disorder 
Treatment Bill. I hope we can get strong support from the 
administration for that. As you have said, it's really 
important to pick people up while they're incarcerated, well 
before they're discharged, and to make sure that once they're 
discharged, that treatment continues and that there is follow-
through through that entire process. We've seen, in Rhode 
Island, when you do that, that it improves recidivism and it 
also dramatically reduced opioid overdose fatalities in the 
immediate aftermath of discharge. It's a lifesaver, in addition 
to being the right way to handle this condition, and I 
appreciate your recognition of that, and I'd love to work with 
you to make sure this bill gets strong support from the 
administration.
    I would say the same about the CARA 3.0 measure. As you 
know, Senator Portman and I wrote CARA many years ago, and it 
passed with huge bipartisan support here in the Senate and 
passed through Congress and was signed into law, and then we 
got large chunks of our CARA 2.0 bill put into another measure, 
and now we're working on CARA 3.0, which provides the kind of 
comprehensive approach to combating substance use disorder that 
the General Assembly of the United Nations has recommended when 
they said evidence-based prevention, treatment, and recovery 
options to drug users, engaging those who commit criminal 
offenses in evidence-based treatment during and following, or 
in lieu of, incarceration, to prevent relapse and recidivism. 
We look forward to working with you and hope you'll support 
both of those efforts.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse. I'd like----
    Senator Whitehouse. She's welcome to say whether she'll 
support either of those efforts.
    Chair Durbin. Ms. LaBelle.
    Director LaBelle. Senator, I wanted to point out, when you 
talk about the importance of the RSAT program and what happened 
in Rhode Island, I think this is really significant that it's 
a--you had a 60 percent decrease in overdose stats among people 
who had just left incarceration and a 6 percent decrease 
statewide. What happened in Rhode Island really lit a fire 
around the country for more states to have treatment behind the 
walls. Yes, we're happy to meet with you and talk to you about 
all of this legislation that you mentioned, CARA and RSAT.
    Senator Whitehouse. Be sure to thank your new Commerce 
Secretary, Governor Raimondo----
    Director LaBelle. Yes.
    Senator Whitehouse [continuing]. Because she played an 
important role in making sure that our prison administration 
developed that and imposed it and enforced it and saw those 
really good results.
    Director LaBelle. Yes. Thank you, Senator.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. Before I recognize 
Senator Lee, I would just--I'm glad Senator Cornyn is still 
here. In FY 2019, Congress appropriated $570 million for U.S. 
Customs and Border Protection to deploy nonintrusive inspection 
systems--I think that's maybe Z Portals and perhaps some 
others--along the southwest border: technology allowing our 
border inspectors to X-ray the contents of trucks, cars, buses, 
and cargo containers.
    CBP officials have informed Congress this additional 
funding will be used to obtain technology to increase the 
scanning rate of commercial trucks to 72 percent and passenger 
vehicles to 40 percent by FY 2024. We're still several years 
removed, but if I recall, this was approved and supported by 
the Trump administration, to put in this technology, and we 
have been funding it. I thank you for raising that point.
    Senator Cornyn. If I can just reply briefly, I think that's 
good. That's a good thing, but you have to also recognize that 
a lot of illegal drugs come between the ports of entry in 
backpacks, by mules who are carrying drugs for the cartels, and 
we don't know how many people that our Border Patrol can 
actually encounter, because you don't know the ones that you 
don't run into. You can pick up the ones that you do run into 
and have a hope of interdicting them, but right now, 40 percent 
of the Border Patrol are taken off the front lines because 
they're taking care of unaccompanied children, because of the 
current humanitarian crisis at the border. That leaves an 
opening, a huge opening for the cartels to run drugs through 
those gaps in Border Patrol coverage. I think the technical 
means is helpful, but it certainly doesn't address the concern 
that I have about the fact that the Biden administration 
doesn't appear to have any concerns whatsoever about the 
current crisis. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. LaBelle, I'd like 
to start with you. CBP saw a sharp increase in the number of 
total enforcement actions from FY 2018 to 2019, with 
enforcement actions now on track to almost double in FY 2021. 
These include actions related to inadmissibles to apprehensions 
and arrests along the border. During that same time, we've 
witnessed a 73 percent increase in the amount of cocaine seized 
at the border. Would you agree that these numbers suggest that 
there's a huge increase in the amount of cocaine entering the 
United States from the southern border?
    Director LaBelle. Thank you, Senator, for that question. 
We're not seeing--I mean, yes, we've seen some increase in 
cocaine, but over time, over the last couple years, it's been 
relatively stable. What we're very concerned about is certainly 
increased cultivation numbers in Colombia, because I think what 
we have to do is make sure that it never reaches that stage. 
The efforts that are being made at the border, most of these 
come through the ports of entry, through vehicles, and that's 
where the scanning information, the scanning devices, come 
through, certainly for fentanyl. What we're seeing over the 
course of a couple years is that it's relatively stable, but we 
have to look back at the introduction--interdiction piece in 
Colombia, and cultivation numbers are up.
    Senator Lee. What about these--the increase that we're 
seeing in FY 2021? Isn't it possible that at least some of 
those are attributable to the open-border policies of the 
current administration?
    Director LaBelle. Thank you for asking that question, 
Senator. I think that we, you know--so, flow doesn't always 
equate to seizures. Some of that maybe have been because we 
had, actually, earlier this year, during COVID, fewer people 
coming across the border. Again, you know, we work with CBP 
very closely to make sure that they have the support they need 
to prevent cocaine from coming into this country. Again, I want 
to go back to the interdiction work that we do, that the Coast 
Guard does, and the work that we do with the country of 
Colombia, to make sure that the--those drugs never even make it 
that far.
    Senator Lee. Okay. Let's talk about the relationship 
between sentencing and drug interdictions and drug activity. 
Setting aside for a minute the disparity issue, just assume 
categorically that if we started sentencing cocaine, generally, 
less harshly, wouldn't that have some risk of increasing or at 
least incentivizing drug trafficking across our southern 
border?
    Director LaBelle. Senator, I want to go back to--what we're 
looking at right now is--I mean, is the disparity issue, and I 
think what we're talking about is that 18-to-1. I don't--we 
haven't seen an increase in crack cocaine use, and, in fact, 
it's pretty--it's a tiny proportion of people in this country 
who have substance use disorders who use crack, and for powder 
cocaine, it's about twice as much. Really, we haven't seen the 
relation between sentencing guideline and use, or even 
trafficking, in the country.
    Senator Lee. Given the fact that we've got--I mean, let's 
assume, for sake of argument, that these drugs should be 
treated the same way for sentencing purposes and that there 
shouldn't be this disparity. This still does leave an 
outstanding issue that I'm not sure the bill we're discussing 
today addresses. Given how dangerous that both crack cocaine 
and powder cocaine are, and the current triple increase in the 
number of cocaine-associated deaths over the last decade, 
should we--why shouldn't we be concerned about raising the 
amount of crack cocaine needed in order to trigger the 
mandatory minimum, rather than lowering the amount of powder 
cocaine? Do you understand my question?
    Director LaBelle. I think so, but I want to--so, cocaine 
overdose deaths are up; however, what's up, what's causing that 
increase, is the presence of fentanyl in people who have died. 
It's not cocaine use solely. Cocaine use is actually somewhat 
down over the last----
    Senator Lee. Yes, but they're still dying because they 
purchased and used cocaine. I mean----
    Director LaBelle. Well----
    Senator Lee [continuing]. Yes, it's tainted cocaine, and 
it's been cut with something that is very deadly, but these are 
still deaths. They are still cocaine overdose-related deaths. 
There's another complicating factor, but I'm not sure that 
negates the sentencing concern I'm talking about. In other 
words, my question is, do we need to be concerned about--you 
know, what's the appropriate level to set it? I think there is 
widespread agreement on this Committee that the disparity is 
difficult to defend. The question becomes, what do we do about 
the disparity? Do we raise the threshold for one or reduce the 
threshold for the other?
    Director LaBelle. I think what the bill calls for and what 
the administration supports is reducing the crack cocaine 
threshold to make it even with cocaine--with powder cocaine. I 
don't think we're requesting an increase. I don't think that's 
related to either cocaine use or overdose deaths.
    Senator Lee. Mr. Chairman, my time's expired. Can I ask one 
follow-up question to--Governor Hutchinson, do you have any 
response to that question? Do we raise one, lower the other? Do 
we meet in the middle?
    Governor Hutchinson. That's a great question. The--my 
answer to that is, again, I think we're better off addressing 
the concerns of these substances in terms of increased 
penalties based upon whether there's a firearm at the time, 
whether there's other violence, or the victims and the--those--
and the prior record. Those are things the sentencing judge can 
consider, and I think that's preferable. With where we are 
right now, I believe that the Act, as addressed and as drafted, 
is a good remedy for it.
    Senator Lee. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Coons.
    Senator Coons. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, and thank you 
for your years of leadership on this important issue, Ranking 
Member Grassley, Senator Booker. I just want to thank our 
witnesses for being here today, as well, and commend the 
leadership of those on this Committee who are working hard to 
advance the EQUAL Act and the Biden administration that is 
calling on all of us to apply evidence-based policy in a way 
that actually addresses racial inequalities in criminal 
justice.
    To Acting Director LaBelle, I've long worked closely with 
the ONDCP in my 10 years in local government and as a Chair and 
Ranking Member of the FSGG Appropriations Subcommittee and look 
forward to working with you more closely. I think it's a vital 
office. I'm glad that it has survived unscathed the attempts to 
restructure it and realign it in recent years, and I had a 
great series of visits to Delaware of the previous Director and 
hope that whoever is the next Director will commit to coming to 
Delaware to visit us, as well.
    I just would be interested in hearing from you why the 
crack cocaine sentencing disparity does more harm than good in 
our communities and what the Biden administration is calling on 
this body to do about it and then what the administration will 
be doing to address drug crime with a whole-of-Government 
approach.
    Director LaBelle. Thank you, Senator. Thanks for your 
longtime involvement with ONDCP and support for the office. I 
think what really we're looking at today is to restore trust 
and faith in our criminal justice system. Also, for drug 
policy, one of our policy priorities is to advance equity. 
That's a huge, huge undertaking, but this is one step we can 
take today after a number of years.
    It--our policy priorities, as we sent to the Hill, 
include--there are seven of them. One of them is racial equity. 
It also includes supply reduction, so, reducing the supply of 
drugs that are consumed in this country. That's not only 
domestic law enforcement. That, as I've said, includes going to 
source countries. I mean, I would think that half of my time is 
spent on international issues, and so it's that whole-of-
Government approach that we need, to address the issue.
    Senator Coons. I look forward to working more closely with 
you on that, both the transnational issues and the domestic 
issues.
    Governor, if I could, I just am so grateful for your voice 
and your leadership on this. This isn't a partisan issue, and 
as the Acting Director said, it's long overdue. My predecessor 
in this seat, then-Senator Biden, back in 2007, introduced 
legislation to eliminate this disparity.
    Can you speak to how these disparities have damaged 
communities and why you support rectifying it and, in 
particular, why the retroactive provisions of the EQUAL Act are 
important to make a difference to families and communities that 
have already been harmed by this long-standing sentencing 
disparity?
    Governor Hutchinson. Senator, it's fundamental to 
everything that we believe about our legal system--is that 
everyone is treated equally under the law. Whenever that 
fundamental point is undermined, then you have juries that 
believe in the jury nullification, the community does not want 
to hold people accountable because they see the entire system 
unfair, you see a lack of cooperation and respect among the 
police, and then you have communities that are impacted because 
of long periods of incarceration that is not included--
applicable to other communities. All of those reasons--I think 
it is one of the most important things we can do, to build 
confidence in our criminal justice system and with law 
enforcement, is to equalize that treatment between powder and 
crack.
    Senator Coons. Thank you, Governor. Thank you, Acting 
Director. I look forward to the swift passage of the EQUAL Act. 
It belongs on the President's desk and it belongs in law, and 
we have a lot more to do, past that, but this would be a great 
next step. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Coons. I understand she is 
remote and virtual, but Senator Klobuchar is seeking 
recognition. Is that true?
    Senator Klobuchar. That is correct, Mr. Chair.
    Chair Durbin. Take it away, Senator.
    Senator Klobuchar. All right. Thank you, Senator Durbin, 
for your longtime leadership on addressing this disparity.
    Ms. LaBelle, as you described in your testimony, the crack 
cocaine and powder cocaine sentencing disparity has had a 
disproportionate impact on communities of color. The impact 
continues today. Do you agree that eliminating this disparity 
is a key component, as we look at issues of race disparity in 
the criminal justice system?
    Director LaBelle. Absolutely, Senator. Thank you.
    Senator Klobuchar. What more should the Federal Government 
do to help address the long-term impact that the sentencing 
disparity had in communities of color?
    Director LaBelle. I mean, I think I outlined some of that 
in my remarks, that we need to make sure, first of all, to 
restore trust that--in our criminal justice system, in our drug 
policies. We also need to make sure that we have equity when we 
are looking to get--to prevent substance use from ever 
occurring and to treat people, make sure we're getting access 
to treatment for people in need, regardless of their color. 
That's another piece in our policy priorities that we're 
working on.
    Senator Klobuchar. Exactly. For me, it's been a lot about--
from my old days in my other job as a county attorney, it's 
been expanding drug court, expanding access to drug court, and 
making sure they're available to everyone.
    Governor Hutchinson, many States have taken action to end 
the disparity in sentencing. In Arkansas, in Minnesota, the 
criminal code provides the same sentencing guidelines for crack 
and powder cocaine. What impacts have you observed in States 
that have moved to equal sentencing for crack and powder 
cocaine? What lessons have you learned from your State that 
have led you to be testifying today?
    Governor Hutchinson. Thank you, Senator. I can't speak for 
every State, but you start with equal treatment, and that's 
what a 1-to-1 ratio gives us. You know, in terms of the impact 
on communities, you can see that many times these cases are 
brought into Federal court, and while, you know, we have it 1-
to-1 at the State level, as everyone knows, through the task 
forces and through Federal prosecutions, that these cases will 
wind up in Federal court. While our ratio is good, that 
difference with the Federal system really, for the person out 
there who's a defendant, they just see it as one system. We 
have to really bring that sense of fairness together at the 
State and Federal level.
    Senator Klobuchar. Are you a believer in drug courts? We--I 
just discussed them with Ms. LaBelle.
    Governor Hutchinson. Listen, thanks for raising that. I'm a 
big supporter of it. I supported that while I was head of the 
DEA, even, and then carried it out as Governor. We're a very 
active drug treatment court system, and I've seen them 
operational across the country. They're one of the most 
effective tools we can have, that brings accountability but 
also treatment that goes along with it.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. Back to you, Ms. LaBelle. 
Justice Sotomayor recently noted, in a case called Terry v. 
United States, that there is, and these are her words, ``an 
extensive record of race-based myths about crack cocaine that 
the media `branded into the public mind and the minds of 
legislators.' '' I'd like to run through with you a few of 
these, to make clear why we should take action to continue to 
eliminate this sentencing disparity.
    First, is it true that the science does not support 
treating these two drugs differently? Yes or no?
    Director LaBelle. Yes.
    Senator Klobuchar. That the science does not support it?
    Director LaBelle. The science does not support treating 
these two drugs----
    Senator Klobuchar. Exactly.
    Director LaBelle [continuing]. Differently. Yes.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Is it true that both powder and 
crack cocaine are addictive and pose serious health risks, both 
of them?
    Director LaBelle. Yes.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Is----
    Director LaBelle. Yes, they're both----
    Senator Klobuchar [continuing]. Its true that there is not 
data to support the claim that crack cocaine causes violent 
behavior?
    Director LaBelle. No. There's no research on that--to 
support that.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Could we go back to the first one 
on--or the second one, about the addiction and the serious 
health risks and powder versus crack cocaine, just what the 
science really shows on that?
    Director LaBelle. It's based on what--how you use it, as 
opposed to the drug itself. Most people use crack cocaine; it's 
vaporized and it goes into the bloodstream much faster, and it 
affects your brain in a faster way. However, powder cocaine can 
be injected, and it has similar properties to, and affects the 
brain in the same way as, vaporized crack cocaine.
    Senator Klobuchar. Then back to the other one on violent 
behavior, there are--I know there are some incidences involving 
cocaine, of violent behavior, but what you're saying is there's 
not actually data on this?
    Director LaBelle. The research shows that it's not an 
individualized issue, that it's really about drug trafficking 
itself.
    Senator Klobuchar. What do you mean by that?
    Director LaBelle. It's the trafficking that leads to the 
violent behavior. As Governor Hutchinson said, you know, there 
are ways in which our sentencing provides for more violent 
crimes to increase sentencing based on the act itself, as 
opposed to the drug.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. All right. Thank you very much. I 
appreciate your work. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Klobuchar. Senator 
Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you and 
Senator Booker and others on our Committee for their work on 
this issue, and I strongly support this legislation. Governor 
Hutchinson, you talked in your testimony, and I'm going to 
quote it, about incarceration, generally. ``As a Nation, we 
should not rely on incarceration as the first, best, and only 
response to drug offenses.'' You go on to talk about the costs 
of incarceration, generally. ``The American public understands 
that we are not reaping the societal benefits that we 
previously hoped might come with an incarceration-first model, 
and they are looking to the Nation's State and Federal leaders 
to adjust their approach and find evidence-based solutions that 
work.''
    I served as United States attorney in Connecticut, as well 
as the State Attorney General. I think both of us, having 
sought harsh sentences--and I did my share of requests for 
``throw the book at this defendant,'' but I've come to see that 
incarceration, generally, has very, very, very mixed results, 
often exactly the opposite of what we hoped as prosecutors to 
achieve. I wonder if you could talk about that issue and, as 
well, the way that sentencing involves very unjust and unfair 
disparities, not just in drug offenses, but from the first 
sentencing I observed, as a law clerk to a district judge--
often, personal factors that differ from one judge to another 
and lead to judges being known as harsh sentencers or lenient 
sentencers. It just seems like the whole criminal justice 
system is bedeviled by disparities in sentencing that is a 
focus here in very dramatic terms but, in one way or another, 
characterize our criminal justice system.
    Governor Hutchinson. Thank you, Senator. The disparities in 
sentencing across the board are always a challenge. The Federal 
level addressed it through the sentencing guidelines, which I'm 
supportive of as long as there are some escape clauses for the 
judge whenever there's unusual factors in it. At the State 
level, we are not as reliant upon sentencing guidelines. We 
have those, but there's much more discretion among the 
prosecutors, as you know, in the sentencing, and so you wind up 
having differences between jurisdictions, so then you have big 
differences between those that plead versus those that go to a 
jury trial. Those are disparities that I struggle with as 
Governor.
    In terms of incarceration, you've got to distinguish--I 
mean, I believe in incarceration of those violence, those that 
are a risk to public safety, as I'm sure you do, but we have to 
distinguish those that have both a criminal problem and an 
addiction problem. That's what we're trying to identify through 
our drug treatment courts, the nonviolent offenders that have 
addiction issues, and they might be selling to support their 
habit. If we can identify those, then incarceration is not the 
first answer. There is other options that we should look at.
    Senator Blumenthal. I completely agree that incarceration 
serves a valid, important function when there is a threat to 
the public, when that threat can be addressed through 
confinement, but I agree with you also that dealing with 
substance abuse disorder is certainly a key to making 
incarceration productive.
    Let me ask you, if I may, Ms. LaBelle--I gather your view 
is that Colombia is now again the source of the major influx of 
cocaine into this country? It was for a while, and then it 
abated, and now it is again. Is that correct?
    Director LaBelle. It's about 90 percent of U.S. cocaine 
comes from--is sourced from Colombia.
    Senator Blumenthal. Can the same tactics be used as before, 
to reduce that flow?
    Director LaBelle. We have--we're working on a plan to 
address the issue both from land titling, redevelopment, and so 
that--all those things are being worked on right now. There 
will be elements of the previous approach. We have a great 
relationship with Colombia, and we can build on those 
relationships to have an effective approach to reducing 
cultivation in Colombia.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you very much. Thanks, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Booker.
    Senator Booker. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 
Governor, it's just such an honor that you would take time to 
be here, and I'm just so grateful for your loud voice on 
rational sentencing. You come at it with a tremendous amount of 
gravitas because of your service not just as a Governor but 
really someone who was responsible as a head of the Drug 
Enforcement Administration.
    I just want to ask you, so maybe go into details--like, you 
said in a recent editorial that--in support of the EQUAL Act, 
that this is--that our efforts are failing in getting the real 
high-level drug traffickers. If it's failing in that, who is 
getting churned into the system? What kind of folks are--if 
we're not getting the--through the sentencing, if we're not 
getting the major traffickers, who are we getting?
    Governor Hutchinson. It's hard to get major traffickers, 
and that's where I agree totally with our interdiction efforts 
that the Director referenced. We have to disrupt that supply 
chain, but it's hard to get the level of cooperation you need 
to go up the chain. In terms of--but we have to stay after 
that, first of all.
    Second, in terms of who we are prosecuting, you know, we've 
seen instances at the Federal level where someone is 
peripherally involved in a drug trafficking organization, but 
they get hammered under the conspiracy for the major elements 
of it, and so Congress has addressed some of that, and I 
applaud them for it. We have to continually to work to separate 
those that have true addiction problems versus that are in it 
for the economy, for the money, the profits, and are engaged in 
the violent activities of it.
    I think law enforcement does a terrific job in terms of 
putting their priorities on the right places, and society has 
changed. I think we've learned that, you know, if you've got 
somebody who's genuinely selling, incarceration is necessary, 
whether it's methamphetamine or whether it's cocaine, but if 
you've got somebody who has an addiction problem, then--and 
that's why they're engaged in the minor selling of it, then 
let's look at alternatives.
    Senator Booker. That--and that's--two more points. One is, 
so, that's my concern, and this has been the best area of 
bipartisan work I've had as a Senator, and the thoughtfulness 
of people on both sides of the aisle are really good. I thought 
my friend, Senator Lee, asked a really good question. For a lot 
of these offenders, for--at sort of that first level, that gets 
you 5 years, or the second level gets you 10 years, why not 
just--why is the EQUAL Act the right way to go, of lowering the 
crack disparity to the cocaine level? Why not raise the cocaine 
level that triggers those higher-end sentences, to the crack 
level? Why is the EQUAL Act the one you're endorsing, of those 
two strategies, when it comes to public safety and helping 
people that might be engaged in the usage of small amounts?
    Governor Hutchinson. That's a great question and one that I 
wrestled with, because to me the most important thing is to 
equalize it so it is fair. Where we are right now, it'd be hard 
to justify increasing the penalties or change, adjust the 
amounts upwards in terms of the powder cocaine. It's just--I 
think you get broader support, I think you accomplish the 
objective, and whenever I look at the concerns about a career 
criminal, about violence, all of those things, they could be 
factored in separately, in the sentencing guidelines.
    Senator Booker. If I may interrupt, you have seen now 
what's happened when we acted in a bipartisan way to lower 
sentencing. You've seen when we've given judges more 
discretion. Has that generally, that trend, been a good thing, 
or are you concerned, in Arkansas and other places, about 
public safety?
    Governor Hutchinson. From what I see in the data--that 
there's not been an adverse consequence from those changes.
    Senator Booker. Yes. Okay. Then the last thing I just want 
to ask you to make a comment on--so, one of my biggest concerns 
is the faith with which people have in law enforcement, the 
faith that we, as a society, have in our justice system. 
Really, our justice system sits on that foundation. Even Judge 
Learned Hand once said the Constitution is not--is only worth 
as much as the paper it's written on, unless it's in the hearts 
of the people.
    I would imagine, in your experience right now, you know 
that there's minority communities who have a lot of cynicism 
about our criminal justice system that has been bred from bad 
experiences with feeling like they've witnessed this disparity. 
In your experience, what would be the effect of leveling this, 
finally be in the confidence people have in the justice system 
in general?
    Governor Hutchinson. It would be a significant step forward 
in rebuilding confidence in our criminal justice system. I 
don't necessarily think it ends there. I think we have to 
continually look at our policies, our incarceration, and to 
make sure that we have the resources to stop violence in our 
minority communities, as well as making sure that we have 
community support and that we have drug treatment courts and 
those treatment facilities that are available, as well.
    Senator Booker. Thank you very much. I'm sorry, Ms. 
LaBelle, I didn't have any questions for you, but you were 
still amongst my two favorite LaBelles in America.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Booker. Thanks.
    Chair Durbin. Let me guess the other. Thank you, Senator 
Booker. We're now going to thank the two witnesses for joining 
us today, and their testimony was terrific. Appreciate the 
sacrifice they made, to be here. Thank you very much, Governor. 
Thank you, Ms. LaBelle.
    I'd like to say a few things for the record, here. First, 
the Department of Justice fully supports the EQUAL Act. A 
Department witness would have been here in person to explain 
that support, but for the fact that he had a previously 
scheduled family vacation this week. They have sent a 
statement--I hope you get a copy of that, Senator Grassley--in 
support of the EQUAL Act, which I'd ask unanimous consent to 
enter into the record.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. I'd like to make a couple points on questions 
raised during the course of this first panel. The U.S. 
Sentencing Commission reports that crack cocaine offenses have 
declined significantly since the sentencing guidelines for 
crack cocaine offenses were first reduced more than 10 years 
ago, from merely--from nearly 6,000 cases in 2009 to just over 
1,200 cases in FY 2020. The DEA's 2020 National Drug Assessment 
reports that in 2019, the number of cocaine reports to the 
DEA's National Forensic Laboratory Information System was the 
lowest number report in the past 6 years, and those cocaine 
reports represent less than half the number reported in their 
peak in 2006. A change in sentencing has not resulted in more 
cocaine being reported or offenses being reported, as well.
    I'd like to ask consent that statements in support of the 
EQUAL Act by the Major Cities Chiefs, faith leaders, Americans 
for Prosperity, American Conservative Union, civil rights 
organizations, law enforcement, and others, including the 
Marion County attorney from the great State of Iowa, will be 
entered in the record without objection.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Senator Booker has graciously agreed to come 
forward for the second panel, and we'd ask them to please come 
to the table to be sworn in. I hereby authorize Senator Booker 
as Chairman to swear in the next panel of witnesses.
    Senator Grassley. Before you swear them, I would ask 
permission--I'd like to submit, for the record, a number of 
letters from the prosecuting and law enforcement community, on 
cocaine and the sentencing disparity between crack and powder 
cocaine. These letters highlight a fraction of the issues and 
opinions, and I hope to create a more complete and robust 
picture of how to approach the issue.
    These letters are from the individual prosecutors, the 
executive director of HIDTA programs, the Heritage Foundation, 
the National Narcotics Officers' Associations' Coalition, and 
the National Association of Police Officers.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    Senator Booker [Presiding]. Thank you very much to the 
Ranking Member. I want to thank everybody for their patience. 
It's so great to see this panel here. I want to introduce the 
majority witnesses of our second panel, and then I'll return to 
the Ranking Member Grassley to introduce the minority 
witnesses.
    First, Matthew Charles is joining us today. Thanks to the 
First Step Act--under the 100-to-1 disparity, Mr. Charles, my 
friend, was sentenced to 35 years in prison. He was a model 
inmate. That is not a reflection of his looks but his behavior. 
A Federal judge ruled, in 2016, that he should be released 
under the retroactive sentencing guideline reductions that 
resulted from the first--the Fair Sentencing Act.
    After rebuilding his life for almost 2 years, an appellate 
court ruled that Mr. Charles had been released in error. After 
the First Step Act passed, Mr. Charles was eligible for 
resentencing, and thank God, he was released again. He has been 
extraordinary in his activism, leadership, and service in the 
community, further tribute to the model citizen he is, as he 
was a model inmate.
    We have also been joined by Mr. Russell Coleman. Mr. 
Coleman was the U.S. Attorney for the Western District of 
Kentucky during the Trump administration. He has also 
previously served as a staffer for the minority leader, Mr. 
McConnell. I want to thank Mr. Russell publicly for his service 
to our country, his years of commitment to making this Nation 
better.
    Ranking Member Grassley, would you go ahead and introduce 
the other two witnesses?
    Senator Grassley. I'm not prepared to do that now.
    Senator Booker. All right.
    Senator Grassley. Somebody screwed up here.
    Senator Booker. That's okay, sir. I will take the blame. Do 
not----
    Senator Grassley. Okay.
    Senator Booker [continuing]. Put it on your staffer. I'm 
sure it was me.
    Unidentified Speaker. I stood at the wrong moment.
    Senator Booker. Yes. I do want to just--while we're waiting 
perhaps for that, I do just want to make sure everybody does 
know that this is, indeed, flour. I've tested it.
    Senator Grassley. What have you got?
    Senator Booker. I was a little concerned.
    Senator Grassley. Where's the other one?
    Senator Booker. I was--it is not gluten-free flour, though, 
so it's a dangerous substance.
    Senator Grassley. Okay. Obviously, I'm not going to read a 
whole dissertation, here. Forget it. Just let them introduce 
themselves.
    Senator Booker. Gentlemen, you're going to introduce 
yourselves when you speak. Would the witnesses please stand, to 
be sworn in?
    [Witnesses are sworn in.]
    Senator Booker. Okay. Thank you all. Mr. Charles, would you 
please proceed with your opening statement? Mr. Charles, we're 
going to get your microphone on, one way or the other.
    Mr. Charles. Okay.

             STATEMENT OF MATTHEW CHARLES, JUSTICE

           REFORM FELLOW, FAMM, NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE

    Mr. Charles. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Grassley, Senator Booker, and Members of the Committee. Good 
morning. My name is Matthew Charles. It's an honor to have this 
opportunity to speak with you today, just as it was an honor 
for me to be at the State of the Union address 2 years ago and 
receive a standing ovation from Members of the House and 
Senate.
    Some of you know my story. As a young man, I was on the 
wrong path. I grew up in a cramped public housing unit in North 
Carolina with a father who was both physically and verbally 
abusive. I was angry and lost, and I began to mimic that 
behavior I experienced at home. I share this not as an excuse 
but to help you understand why I made the bad choices that 
resulted in my incarceration.
    At 18, I tried to escape home life and joined the Army, but 
I was still angry and mad at the world. For the next decade, I 
was in a dark place. I sold drugs and spent about 5 years in 
State prison, but I had not yet hit rock bottom. In 1995, I was 
arrested for selling 216 grams of crack cocaine to an informant 
and illegally possessing a firearm. Because of my prior 
criminal activity and because I sold crack cocaine instead of 
powder cocaine, I was given a 35-year sentence. If crack and 
powder were treated the same back then, my sentence could've 
been only 15 years, not 35, but the 100-to-1 disparity was in 
place at that time, and I honestly didn't seem like someone who 
deserved a break.
    While in the county jail, I met a guy named Jesus Duran. 
When he was sentenced and transferring, he left me his 
possessions. Among those things was a Bible. I read the Bible 
for the first time in my life, and the hard shell that I had 
constructed to protect myself began to crack. I gave up the 
anger and pain that had controlled me. I surrendered my life to 
the Lord Jesus Christ. That decision changed my attitude toward 
people.
    I went to Federal prison and continued to live out the new 
life that I had accepted. Doing so allowed me to live a 
positive lifestyle and afforded me the opportunity to work as a 
GED tutor, a law clerk, and to mentor some younger people. Over 
the next 21 years, I didn't receive a single disciplinary 
infraction.
    When Congress passed the Fair Sentencing Act in 2009, I 
believed I was eligible for a sentence reduction. I was 
following the debate at the United States Sentencing Commission 
and in Congress very closely, as were others serving time for 
crack-related offenses, and we knew that the basis for treating 
us differently had evaporated. What was clearest of all to us, 
a fact we saw every day inside prison, was that the stiffer 
penalties for crack were being applied disproportionately to 
Black people.
    People of color have been adversely affected for decades 
and have suffered grave injustices and irreparable harm through 
criminal prosecutions of low-level drug offenders and addicts. 
We know the harm these excessive sentences caused to our 
children, our families, and our communities. We had hoped 
Congress would eliminate the unjustified disparity in 2010, but 
we saw political compromise reduce it to 18-to-1. The Fair 
Sentencing Act did not apply retroactively, but the U.S. 
Sentencing Commission made those changes retroactive.
    In 2013, I applied for a sentence modification. At my 
resentencing hearing, the judge commended my rehabilitation and 
reduced my sentence. I left prison in 2016. At that time, I 
moved to Nashville, got a job as a driver, reconnected with 
family, volunteered weekly at a food pantry called The Little 
Pantry That Could, and became deeply involved in my church. I 
was doing everything I could to make my second chance a 
success, but after a year and a half of freedom, the Obama 
Administration's Department of Justice okayed the prosecutor to 
appeal my release, and the appeals court reversed the reduction 
in sentence.
    I was sent back to prison for 7 months, until the passage 
of the First Step Act. Thanks to many of you, especially 
Senators Grassley and Senator Durbin, I was spared from 
spending another decade behind bars. I left prison for good on 
January 3d, 2019, just 2 weeks after President Trump signed the 
bill into law.
    I've spent the last two and a half years advocating for 
those left behind. People tell me my story is unique, but I 
know there are a lot of people like me who are committed to 
making changes and finding a new path and who do not need to 
spend decades in prison to learn their lesson. I deserved to go 
to Federal prison for my crimes, but I didn't need a sentence 
of 35 years, especially when 20 of those years were due to the 
fact that I sold one type of crack--one type of cocaine rather 
than another.
    The Fair Sentencing Act might have been the best political 
compromise Congress could have reached 11 years ago, but the 
unfairness it sought to address remains. The U.S. Sentencing 
Commission recently found that Black people made up 77 percent 
of all Federal crack convictions in 2020, a percentage nearly 
as high as it was in the years before Congress reduced the 
disparity to 18-to-1. In other words, we used to see a 
tremendous amount of racial discrimination; now we see a little 
less. Even a little less discrimination is too much.
    Proverbs 11:1 says, ``Dishonest scales are an abomination 
to the Lord, but a just weight is his delight.'' The difference 
in crack and powder drug weights wasn't just in 1986, it wasn't 
just in 2010, and it isn't just now. It's time to finish the 
job, and I urge you to pass the EQUAL Act. Thank you for 
allowing me to testify.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Charles appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Senator Booker. Mr. Charles, thank you very much. I have 
been somewhat deputized by the Ranking Member. Mr. Garcia, 
you're going to speak next, but I just want to say, sir, that 
you serve as the Executive Director of the South Texas High 
Intensity Drug Trafficking Agency, HIDTA, and you've done that 
since 2008. That is extraordinary, because the South Texas 
HIDTA includes part of the southern border that is the highest 
drug trafficking area, one of the highest drug trafficking area 
in the United States.
    You have been--showed extraordinary commitment to your work 
in protecting your community and making us a stronger and safer 
nation. From 2007 to 2008, you were the director of the New 
Mexico HIDTA, and so you have tremendous experience when it 
comes to issues of drug trafficking. You've worked your whole 
life, though, in public safety: 31 years serving as the 
narcotics deputy commander, narcotics captain, narcotics 
sergeant, narcotics agent, and a trooper. Sir, it's an honor to 
have you. Would you please give us your testimony?

             STATEMENT OF ANTONIO GARCIA, EXECUTIVE

           DIRECTOR, SOUTH TEXAS HIGH INTENSITY DRUG

              TRAFFICKING AREA, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS

    Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Senator Booker. Chairman Durbin and 
Senator Grassley, thank you so much for the opportunity to have 
a chance to come before you. Senator Grassley has been an 
instrument of support for law enforcement in general, and in 
particular when it comes to the use of the National Guard 
Training Program. Senator, thank you so much for your work and 
effort.
    Senator Booker, when then-Colonel Rick Fuentes and I worked 
together on the A--IACP Committees, along with Governor 
Hutchinson, it was something that he came up with, because of 
your support, something that is now modeled as a National model 
in drug monitoring initiatives. Thank you, sir, for your 
efforts. Many of you have helped the law enforcement community 
out. Senator Feinstein, Senator Cornyn, Senator Cruz, all of 
you understand the importance behind the law enforcement 
community, and I think that it's critical today for us to 
recognize that.
    I've been in law enforcement, like you said, Senator, for 
45 years. Forty-two of those years I have spent in narcotics 
enforcement. I have personally witnessed the devastation that 
drugs cause our community. The international criminal 
organizations, the drug cartels, the drug trafficking criminal 
organizations, the drug smugglers, and the local drug dealers 
are what I consider to be the predators that feed upon the 
innocence and the gullibility of the most vulnerable citizens 
of our country. Many of those citizens live in lower 
socioeconomic areas. These predators, they don't discriminate. 
They care not what color their victims are, as long as their 
profits continue to roll in.
    No judicial system is perfect, and we applaud you, in the 
law enforcement community, for working to make it better. We 
believe that the sentencing guidelines are the consequences 
used to hold traffickers accountable for their actions. These 
guidelines are established to act as deterrents to the would-be 
criminals, and if these are removed, we send the wrong or, at 
best, a very mixed message.
    In the 2-year timeframe, as an example, from 2019 to 2020, 
the agencies that currently report drug seizures to the 
National Seizure System at the El Paso Intelligence Center 
reported the seizure of over 125,000 kilograms of cocaine. For 
that same timeframe, the HIDTA groups along the United States-
Mexico border, in the designated counties, not the entire 
State--of the 4 States along the border, we reported 68,376 
kilograms, combined, of the cocaine. When you combine those at 
the current market-value price per kilo, that means that we 
were able to take away from those drug cartels $5,000,708,965. 
That's a lot of money, which is why they are in the business. 
It is for the profit.
    According to the Drug Enforcement Administration forensic 
laboratory, cocaine purity levels continue to be at high 
levels, at an average of 83 percent. Cutting agents are used to 
increase the weight and profit for the cartels. In 2016, 60 
percent of those 1,500 drug submissions reported the use of 
fentanyl mixed in with that cocaine. Street-level dealers, like 
their cartels, fight for control over sales territories, which 
is one of the things that makes them violent, and the innocent 
are the ones that suffer. The replacement of a street-level 
dealer happens almost instantaneously if they are arrested. Any 
change in our laws that minimizes the consequences of actions 
by these monsters gives the impression that our society is 
willing to tolerate the abuse of our public by individuals that 
care not who they hurt, as long as there is a monetary gain for 
them.
    Narcotics officers will continue to fight to lower the 
availability of illicit drugs, and a modification in our 
judicial system has to be made, but not at the expense of those 
that are already suffering from the drug use disorders. Thank 
you, gentlemen, all of you, for your endeavors to make these 
corrections and for doing your part to protect our citizens. 
Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I look forward 
and welcome your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Garcia appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Senator Booker. Mr. Garcia, we are grateful that you are 
here. I also have the privilege of assuming a role of Deputy to 
Chuck Grassley again in just giving a brief introduction to 
Steven Wasserman. Mr. Wasserman, you come also with a great 
demonstrated dedication to the country. You are--have been an 
assistant U.S. attorney in the District of Columbia since 2003.
    Today you're appearing in your capacity as a Member of the 
Board for the--of Directors for the National Association of 
Assistant U.S. Attorneys. You obviously have distinguished 
yourself within that organization, because you were vice 
president of policy for its executive committee from 2018 to 
2020. Your legal experience is significant, and previously you 
were a trial attorney focused on organized crime at the United 
States Department of Justice from 1996 to 2003.
    If you'll allow me, sir, you and I have something in 
common. We are both--stand in the shadow of siblings that are 
better than us. Your sister is Debbie Wasserman Schultz, 
someone who people on both sides of the aisle have a lot of 
affection for. Thank you very much. Would you please give us 
your testimony?

              STATEMENT OF STEVEN WASSERMAN, VICE

           PRESIDENT FOR POLICY, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION

          OF ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEYS, WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. Wasserman. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Grassley, Senator Booker, and Members of the Committee, for the 
opportunity to appear before you. It's an honor to testify as 
vice president for policy for the National Association of 
Assistant U.S. Attorneys. I'm here today solely in my 
individual capacity with NAAUSA and not on behalf of the 
Department of Justice or my U.S. attorney's office.
    NAAUSA represents our Nation's more than 6,000 Federal 
prosecutors and civil attorneys across our 94 judicial 
districts. We stand firm in our oath to protect the innocent 
and prosecute the guilty. We are guided by the Constitution and 
will always enforce the laws of Congress equally and fairly. To 
that end, we're not here today to oppose or support any 
legislation but rather provide practical insights into our 
experience in the field and on the front lines of our Nation's 
justice system.
    While the underlying rationale behind the EQUAL Act is that 
powder cocaine and crack cocaine should be treated the same for 
purposes of sentencing, make no mistake, powder cocaine and 
crack cocaine are not equal. There are several reasons that 
support this reality that I'd like to highlight in my 
testimony.
    First, crack is more addictive than powder and thus more 
destructive. Second, crack offenders have more troubling 
criminogenic characteristics. Finally, third, the continued 
rise in drug dependency in this country counsel caution in 
moving forward with reforms that increase the number of 
potentially recidivist offenders in communities.
    First, the manufacturing process for crack cocaine makes 
the substance more concentrated. The method of ingestion, 
smoking, makes the effects shorter lived. Although chemically 
crack and powder cocaine are similar, the intense, short-term 
high produced by crack results in increased binge use, chronic 
use, and greater risk of overdose compared to powder cocaine. 
The more addictive nature of crack only enhances the risks of 
death and community harm.
    Federal law enforcement efforts are focused on drug 
trafficking rather than possession. In these cases, there are 
significant differences in the criminal histories, recidivism 
rates, and involvement with weapons and violence between those 
who traffic in powder cocaine and those who traffic in crack. 
According to a 2017 report from the U.S. Sentencing Commission, 
federally prosecuted crack offenders typically had a more 
serious criminal history than federally prosecuted drug 
trafficking offenders as a whole, including those who sold 
powder cocaine.
    Federal sentencing guidelines outline six criminal history 
categories. Powder cocaine traffickers are 20 percent more 
likely to be in the lowest criminal history category than are 
crack traffickers. Further, 5.8 percent of crack offenders fell 
within the highest criminal history category, and another 5.1 
percent were designated as career offenders. Conversely, only 
1.8 percent of powder cocaine traffickers fell within the 
highest criminal history category, and 3 percent were 
designated as career offenders.
    Crack offenders have the highest recidivism rate of all 
drug offenders, at 60.8 percent. This is nearly 20 percent 
higher than the recidivism rate for powder cocaine traffickers. 
For crack traffickers, assault was the most prevalent and 
serious recidivist offense, with a rate of 27.4 percent. Drug 
trafficking offenses represented the second most prevalent and 
serious offense for crack offenders, at over 17 percent.
    Rather than allowing more individuals to re-enter 
communities earlier, only to re-offend and create additional 
victims, we encourage Congress to ensure effective methods are 
in place to prevent recidivism prior to release. While the 
worst violence associated with the crack cocaine epidemic of 
the 1980's and 1990's has subsided over the last 25 years, 
Federal crack offenders continue to possess weapons at a higher 
rate than powder cocaine traffickers. For example, the U.S. 
Sentencing Commission reported that, in FY 2020, 39.3 percent 
of crack offenders had their sentences enhanced for possessing 
a weapon, 20 percent more often than powder cocaine 
traffickers. The data further demonstrates that mark--this data 
further demonstrates the marked differences between Federal 
crack cocaine offenders and powder cocaine offenders.
    As this Committee is likely aware, drug use and overdose 
deaths are an epidemic deeply damaging our Nation. Cocaine 
remains one of the most common causes of overdose deaths and is 
now often mixed with other dangerous drugs. According to the 
U.S. National Institute on Drug Abuse, between 2012 and 2016, 
there was a 23-fold increase in the number of deaths involving 
cocaine in combination with synthetic opioids like fentanyl and 
fentanyl analogs. Reducing sentences for the most common re-
offenders and some of the most violent drug traffickers at a 
time when drug use is so lethal and prevalent is concerning. 
Should Congress ultimately determine that action is warranted 
to equalize the penalties between powder cocaine and crack--and 
also would encourage Members to consider lowering the quantity 
thresholds for powder cocaine to match the existing thresholds 
for crack?
    As the Committee moves forward, we urge you to consider the 
impact of these decisions on communities as a whole and the 
potential victims of drug trafficking and recidivism. We thank 
the Committee, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Grassley, 
Senator Booker for providing us the opportunity to speak 
regarding this important issue, and I look forward to your 
questions. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Wasserman appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Senator Booker. Thank you very much. I would like to turn 
to the Ranking Member, actually, to start with questions, if 
possible.
    Senator Grassley. I appreciate that privilege very much. 
Thank you, Senator Booker. To----
    Senator Booker. Mr. Ranking Member, obviously I am rusty as 
anything about serving in this role. I skipped over a witness--
--
    Senator Grassley. Well----
    Senator Booker [continuing]. Who shot me a glance that is 
illegal in the State of New Jersey, but----
    [Laughter.]
    --We're in DC, so--can I--may I allow him to speak?
    Senator Grassley. Yes.
    Senator Booker. Thank you very much, Mr. Ranking Member. 
Mr. Coleman, forgive me. Would you please give your 5 minutes 
of testimony, which will be followed immediately by the Ranking 
Member Grassley's question?

             STATEMENT OF RUSSELL COLEMAN, MEMBER,

             FROST BROWN TODD, LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY

    Mr. Coleman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, although I would say 
I'm quite certain the Ranking Member's questions were much more 
value-add than what I might bring to the Committee today. It is 
an extraordinary privilege to sit at this table, in this room, 
before the Committee. It's also an extraordinary privilege to 
sit with this particular witness panel. With Mr. Charles, his 
story of redemption. With Mr. Garcia, who represents an 
entity--HIDTA is one of those acronyms that matter, in terms of 
saving lives, in terms of empowering Federal, State, and local 
aggressive drug task force efforts, and I applaud him for his 
30 years of public service.
    It's also a real privilege to sit with someone who 
represents our Nation's assistant United States attorneys. As 
your former colleague, then-Attorney General Sessions would 
say, AUSAs are the coin of the realm. They're the coin of the 
realm in implementing what this Committee and what Congress 
passes, and they do an amazing job serving our country, and so 
it's a real privilege, gentlemen.
    This room, this beautiful wood-paneled room, is very far 
from Louisville, Kentucky, and I take you to Louisville, 
Kentucky in 2020. I take you to Louisville, Kentucky, last 
year, a city where the relationship between law enforcement, 
the relationship between public safety, the rule of law, 
disappeared. I take you to a place where there was not a window 
in downtown Louisville that one could look through without 
seeing a piece of wood. I take you to a place where faith in 
law enforcement by communities that were also wracked by the 
highest homicide rate in the history of Louisville--a community 
where overdose rates were up 5 percent for many of the 
dangerous substances that we're talking about here. I take you 
to a community that was broken.
    As Justice Jackson, then-United States Attorney General in 
1940, said to a group of U.S. attorneys in his favorite speech, 
he said, ``Humility is the No. 1 characteristic that you need 
as a U.S. attorney.'' I found, in the summer of 2020, in 
Louisville, that's going to be the case whether you want it or 
not, because I take you back to--and I'm so grateful for this 
Committee, and hopefully there's no buyer's remorse. I'm so 
grateful for this Committee in moving forward my nomination and 
allowing me to serve as United States attorney in 2017.
    After I took that oath, I was under the direction to charge 
the most serious readily provable offense, and we did that in 
the Western District of Kentucky. We used every tool in our 
tool kit. We increased Federal firearms prosecutions 67 percent 
over a 2-year period. Why did we do that? Because we were 
looking at a homicide rate that had increased 110 percent. That 
was the tool we thought we had in our tool kit, and at the end 
of 2019, after we'd increased our gun prosecutions, we still 
had almost 100 homicides.
    Humility, Mr. Chairman, became the name of the game, as 
United States attorney, because we increased our engagement 
with our State and local partners. I have a one-pager, here, we 
call it, that's covered by the tools that we're not talking 
about: weight-based mandatory minimums, 924(c), 924(e), the 
recidivist--851 recidivist enhancement, that's such a--these 
are powerful tools that aren't on the table today. These 
remain, and I wouldn't be at this chair, Mr. Chairman, if we 
were removing these powerful tools, but what we're talking 
about is building trust and more effectively using resources, 
because the wheels came off, in terms of trust, in Louisville, 
Kentucky, in 2020, between law enforcement and the communities 
that we should serve.
    I'm not a Pollyanna, to say that equalizing the disparity, 
in this particular bill--that that would eliminate the 
significant challenges between law enforcement and the 
communities we police. I'm not a Pollyanna in that regard, but 
this is a significant--this disparity is a significant limiting 
factor in the relationship between communities of color, those 
that are primarily impacted by violent crime and overdose death 
in Louisville, Kentucky, and law enforcement. It is a limiting 
factor.
    You didn't mention in my--and I'm grateful for the 
introduction. I served as an FBI Special Agent for a number of 
years. Information is the name of the game in allowing us to 
have clearance rates to more significantly impacting and 
protecting people. The information flow is broken. The jury 
nullification issue is a significant issue when communities of 
color, those most significantly impacted, are not engaging with 
law enforcement. It does not allow us to do our jobs as 
effectively as we could. We have to look at different tools. We 
have to look at trust-building.
    This is--this modest proposal is a way of not touching the 
significant mandatory minimums, frankly, that we need, that I 
would argue we need in the Federal system, but allows us to 
build bridges to a community that needs better relationship 
with law enforcement. I close, other than saying how honored I 
am to be joined by the National District Attorneys Association, 
who carry the bulk of prosecutions in this country, by the 
Major City Chiefs, who attempt to police urban areas that have 
seen this wrenching of relationship torn apart between those 
that we're seeking to protect and law enforcement--I close by 
an eloquent comment from the gentleman who sat here just a 
moment ago, Governor Hutchinson. He said, ``The efficacy of law 
enforcement is dependent upon the community's confidence and 
trust in the justice system. It must be fair and equitable.''
    For us to do our jobs as law enforcement officers, we have 
to try new approaches. We have to concede with humility where 
we've failed. This is an effective tool that leaves our most 
significant weapons in place. It leaves them alone but allows 
us to tackle those that should be brought into the Federal 
system and leave the street-level dealers to our National 
District Attorneys Association colleagues to move forward on.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Coleman appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Senator Booker. Thank you very much for that testimony. I 
will turn to Chairman Durbin first and then followed directly 
by Ranking Member Grassley.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Wasserman, I'm 
going to keep on trying to come up with a bill that the 
organization you belong to supports, but it's been difficult. 
NAAUSA opposed the bipartisan First Step Act, which Ranking 
Member Grassley and I helped to write, and if you had prevailed 
in that situation, Mr. Charles would still be in prison. I'm 
glad he's not. Your organization opposes the EQUAL Act, too, 
which puts you out of step with many major prosecutor and law 
enforcement organizations, the National District Attorneys 
Association, Major Cities Chiefs, law enforcement leaders, 
Association of Prosecuting Attorneys, and Law Enforcement 
Action Partnership.
    I'm trying to reconcile some of your testimony, and it's 
difficult. I'm not an expert, and I'm not a scientist. I'm a 
political scientist, whatever that is, and went to law school. 
It doesn't qualify me as a scientist. When I read your 
testimony distinguishing crack and powder cocaine, and you 
refer to ``the intense, short-term high produced by crack 
results in binge use and the rest'', and I'm quoting, it would 
seem to me that you're saying that when you smoke it--cocaine--
as opposed to ingesting it, it creates this sensation in your 
body.
    I don't doubt that. It's quite possible. I would like to 
ask you, couldn't we say the same for marijuana? Would a 
marijuana brownie have--I don't know; no personal experience. 
Would a marijuana brownie have less impact than smoking 
marijuana, for example?
    Mr. Coleman. I'm having a little trouble with my 
microphone. Thank you, Chairman, for the question. Let me just 
correct one thing. It's important to note that my association 
is not opposing or supporting the bill. I think you mentioned 
that we are opposing it. We have expressed concerns about it.
    With respect to your question about marijuana and its 
impact depending on how it is ingested, I think there can be 
differences. I'm not a scientist, so I can't tell you the 
differences in--at least as it relates to marijuana, how 
ingesting it may impact the user. What I can say, though, is 
that with respect to crack cocaine, as a member of the law 
enforcement community, I can speak to the increased rates of 
addiction, death, and recidivism that we consistently see with 
crack compared to powder cocaine.
    Drugs, in our society and in our sentencing scheme, are 
differentiated based upon their perceived harm. Marijuana is 
penalized significantly less than other drugs like cocaine, 
crack, heroin, meth----
    Chair Durbin. May I interrupt your----
    Mr. Coleman [continuing]. Because of the perceived harm.
    Chair Durbin. We do not make a distinction, do we, under 
the law--marijuana in cigarette form as opposed to marijuana in 
some other form? It probably is a mistake to use marijuana, 
because the whole body of law relating to marijuana is changing 
so dramatically in my State and others, but the point I'm 
getting to is, marijuana is usually prosecuted by weight, is it 
not, as opposed to the manner of ingestion?
    Mr. Coleman. It's prosecuted by weight, as is--as are the 
other drugs. I would note that crack cocaine is specifically 
manufactured to be smoked for the effects that it has on the 
user and because it's cheaper.
    Chair Durbin. I would just say that I have been convinced, 
or I wouldn't have embarked on this journey, that the science 
is not on your side, on this. I would also add that the points 
that you made use a word I've not seen before, 
``criminogenic.'' Is that--yes, it is, ``criminogenic.'' When 
we're dealing with Federal crack offenders with extensive 
criminal histories or use of firearms, there is no argument in 
the EQUAL Act that that should be ignored or forgotten. In 
fact, it is certainly likely to come up in the sentencing 
proceeding, as it should. Criminal histories, use of firearms, 
all of those things should be considered, but we have addressed 
ourselves primarily to nonviolent drug offenses. Senator 
Grassley and I agreed that would be the standard, the threshold 
which we'd use.
    I'd just like to close, and I only have a few seconds. 
Thank you to the whole panel. I'm sorry we couldn't get into 
more detail, but the reason for this effort is Mr. Charles, a 
man facing 35 years in prison. That is a rare sentence in its 
severity, thank goodness, but to imagine that he was facing 
that, based on the mistakes that he made in life, which he 
readily acknowledges--it is always our first human instinct to 
believe that raising the penalties on crimes will lead to 
deterrence. We have clear evidence that did not work when it 
came to the 100-to-1 disparity in sentencing. We ended up with 
more addicts and a cheaper product on the street, just the 
opposite of what we were counting on.
    We've got to think anew on this, and I think we are 
learning that drug addiction is, in fact, a disease that needs 
to be treated as such. I think we're learning, also, with drug 
courts, which many people applaud, including the previous 
panel, that when you sit down with someone who is accused of a 
drug crime, who is addicted, and deal with them in a more 
humane and personal way, absent criminogenic elements, absent 
guns and such, that you get a much better result and make the 
communities that they're living in much safer. I thank this 
panel very much.
    Senator Booker. Thank you, Chairman. I'd like to go to 
Ranking Member Grassley now.
    Senator Grassley. Thank you, Senator Booker. First of all, 
to Mr. Charles, not a question, but it's great to see you here 
today, and it's wonderful to have somebody like you, with the 
experience you've had, to testify about the inequities of our 
judicial system. I'm grateful for your continued support of the 
First Step Act and for your voice of being part of the 
conversation today.
    My first question's going to be to Mr. Wasserman and Mr. 
Coleman. Leading into that question: the vast majority of 
Federal inmates will one day leave prison, re-enter society. 
Former inmates should be productive citizens upon release and 
shouldn't return to a life of crime. The First Step Act 
encourages successful re-entry through prison programs--re-
entry programs. That's why I'm concerned by the Sentencing 
Commission's data in which--the FY 2020 report showing that 
those offenders who distribute crack cocaine have higher rates 
of recidivism than any other drug dealer. To you two, as 
prosecutors with firsthand knowledge of how these 
investigations and prosecutions go, is recidivism an important 
factor that Congress should weigh, in evaluating any change in 
the sentencing laws for cocaine? Why or why not?
    Senator Booker. Mr. Wasserman.
    Mr. Wasserman. Thank you, Ranking Member Grassley. 
Absolutely, recidivism is an important factor in how the Senate 
should move forward. As I mentioned, crack offenders recidivate 
at the highest level of all Federal drug offenders--crack 
traffickers, I should say. What we're talking about, really, is 
that these people are going back into their communities and re-
victimizing the members of their community. It is, I think, an 
oversimplification to focus solely on disparate impact based on 
race, because you have to consider the fact that the 
disproportionate negative impact of addiction and violence that 
flows from crack cocaine on primarily the African American 
community also needs to be considered, and recidivism only 
magnifies that problem for communities of color.
    Mr. Coleman. I'd go back to your comment, Senator Grassley, 
that we must prioritize public safety at all times. Everything 
must be viewed through the lens of prioritizing public safety. 
If you look, and we have a tremendous amount of data from those 
released under the First Step Act--very low recidivism rates, 
to begin with. Very low recidivism rates. We retain tools when 
recidivism does occur. We retain enhancements, we retain the 
ability to return those individuals into custody, if need be, 
but the reality--and it's an important point that we haven't 
talked about much here--is the infrequency of seeing crack 
cocaine now.
    I won't presume to say we're--it's not still extant. 
Certainly, it is, but in the Western District of Kentucky, 
during the three and a half years I served as United States 
attorney, it was exceedingly rare to see crack cocaine. It is--
it remains a threat. I would not for a moment hesitate in 
saying that we must treat it as a dangerous substance. We still 
have the mandatory minimums, if this bill were to go forward, 
to do that, but we're simply not seeing it at any degree of 
quantity. The threat is elsewhere now, sir.
    Senator Grassley. To Director Garcia, you mentioned in your 
testimony that the stream of cocaine coming to the U.S. from 
Mexico is consistent. You also noted that cocaine being mixed 
with synthetic opioids like fentanyl is a growing problem. Do 
you think that lowering the sentencing ratio of crack to powder 
cocaine could make it easier or more appealing for Mexican drug 
cartels to smuggle cocaine across the border?
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Senator. The lowering of the 
sentencing guidelines for crack cocaine--I don't know that it 
would make it easier for the drug cartels to bring it in. The 
drug cartels are not bringing in crack cocaine; they're 
bringing in cocaine. It is only, as Mr. Wasserman said, then 
cheaper to sell the crack cocaine, so therefore the street 
dealer that buys a kilogram of cocaine can break it down into 
so many smaller pieces that he can make more money of it, and 
so therefore we believe that the lowering of the sentencing 
guideline for crack cocaine, in and of itself, would not have 
that type of effect.
    As Senator Lee said earlier and Senator Booker followed up 
on, the concern is, do we want to lower cocaine sentencing 
guidelines, or do we want to raise cocaine sentencing 
guidelines so that there's not that disparity between the two? 
I think that that's something that this body has to take into 
consideration.
    Chair Durbin [Presiding]. Thank you, Senator Grassley. 
Senator Cornyn.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Garcia, I want 
to direct some questions to you. First of all, thank you for 
being here today, and thanks for your service to the people of 
Texas and the United States. I think the Southwest Texas High 
Intensity Drug Trafficking Area program plays a very important 
role in dealing with the scourge of illegal drugs.
    I think what you can offer us is a reality check for how--
what conditions are on the ground. One reason why I hope that 
the Vice President, as the designated individual to help the 
administration deal with the current border crisis, will 
actually travel to the border, is that she can do what I try to 
do every time I go to the border, which is to listen to the 
experts and understand the circumstances on the ground and what 
we might be able to do to make them better. Can you explain 
what effect the current border crisis, this surge of 180,000 
people a month on the border--what impact has that had on your 
work and the work of your colleagues who are trying to stop the 
flow of this poison across the border into the United States?
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Senator. As you discussed earlier 
with the previous panel, our partners at the Border Patrol are 
overwhelmed. They are swamped with having to deal with this 
humanitarian issue. As a result, in the State of Texas, the 
Governor has instructed the Texas Department of Public Safety 
to step up and fill that void. At the same time, our local 
sheriffs have taken up that responsibility to fill some of that 
void.
    Even with the amount of--even with the reduction of tourism 
and travel between the two countries, the levels of cocaine 
seizures that were done in 2020 remain the same as that prior 
to the COVID situation, so we know that it's still coming in. 
We understand that our drug trafficking organizations are 
international criminal organizations. They're taking advantage 
of the situation. They're finding that loophole. They're 
finding that ability to come in, and that's exactly what 
they're doing.
    Senator Cornyn. As I mentioned to Ms. LaBelle, in my visits 
to the border and talking to the Border Patrol, they tell me 
the very fact that they're having to deal with all these 
unaccompanied children, for example, has taken a lot of that--
lot of Border Patrol off the front lines. Do you believe that's 
part of the business model or plan or strategy on the part of 
the cartels, to flood the Border Patrol and the border so that 
it can open up gaps that they can then exploit?
    Mr. Garcia. On a personal level, yes, sir, I believe so.
    Senator Cornyn. Yes.
    Mr. Garcia. I think that they tried it several years ago, 
when we had the first wave of undocumented children that came 
in, and we--they saw what they could get away with. I believe 
that this is just another way for them to do a distraction so 
that they can move their poison in.
    Senator Cornyn. Senator Sinema, from Arizona, another 
border State Senator, and I, as well as Henry Cuellar, a 
Congressman from Laredo, and Tony Gonzales, who represents the 
23d Congressional District, have introduced a bipartisan, 
bicameral bill to try to provide additional tools to Border 
Patrol and those Government officials responsible for dealing 
with this surge, to try to begin to mitigate some of the pull 
factors. I realize you're probably not an immigration 
specialist. You're a law enforcement officer, and you deal with 
investigating and prosecuting people for crimes. You mentioned 
the fact that this is not only having an impact on the Border 
Patrol themselves but also on the border communities, including 
the local sheriffs and police departments. Are they seeing an 
increase in crime and other offenses, as a result of the fact 
that there are not just children coming across; there are 
actually sex offenders, people who have committed numerous 
crimes for which they've been convicted, but they mix 
themselves in with these other migrants who are coming for 
other reasons? Are those threats to local communities and to 
the United States, in your opinion?
    Mr. Garcia. There has been an increase that we have noticed 
in the amount of crime; that has stepped up. Primarily, it's 
the crimes of theft, burglaries that have occurred because the 
migrants are coming in or these individuals are coming in, and 
they are in need of things, and so they go after it. What is 
most affecting is the destruction of property to the ranches 
and to the farms that are happening.
    The sheriff's departments, again, as I said, are 
overwhelmed. Their jails are also full. We have no--they have 
no place to house them. All of those things combined take what 
I would consider a snowball effect upon this country and upon 
the law enforcement officers that are sworn to protect it.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Mr. Garcia. Thank you very much, 
Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Cornyn. To your point that 
you've raised twice, now, I hope we can get some data. I think 
we both want to see it. The best data I can come up with on 
drug seizures, ports of entry versus between ports of entry, is 
2020, FY 2020. It would not reflect the current surge in border 
activity. Maybe if we can get that information, it would be 
helpful in understanding this.
    Senator Cornyn. Oh, I'm sure Mr. Garcia may be able to 
enlighten us a little bit, but of course they're coming in both 
places, both across the ports of entry--and you've made the 
important point that the ability to scan and detect bulk drugs 
coming across the ports of entry are--that's important, and it 
needs to get better, and it sounds like we're on a pathway 
there, but the cartels are not stupid, and they realize if they 
can't get the drugs across the ports of entry, they're going to 
come between the ports of entry. That's why you see reports of 
people dressed in either camo or all in black, carrying 
backpacks of drugs across the border, through--between the 
ports of entry, and of course, as we've pointed out, fentanyl--
it doesn't take a lot of fentanyl to kill somebody or to--that 
you can put a lot of it in the backpack. Let me just put it 
that way. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you very much, Senator Cornyn. I now 
turn back over to Senator Booker. Musical chairs. Here we are. 
I'm going to vote on the floor, as he just did.
    Senator Booker [Presiding]. All right. Do I need to hold--
so, this is when the trouble starts, when all my Senior 
Senators leave the room and leave me alone with the panel.
    [Laughter.]
    Gentlemen, you should be afraid. I'm grateful, again--let 
me just get my questions open, here. Mr. Charles, clearly I 
want to start with you, my friend, because I've gotten to know 
you quite well over these years, and what I'd like to know, 
first and foremost, is, what do you think about, in general, 
about the mandatory minimums, in your own experience--that 
difference between 10 years and 35 years?
    You've been really blunt with me about sort of the people 
you observed. Can you maybe just say, for the record, sort of, 
are the longer--decades longer, often--do they make a 
difference in terms of the impact on individuals? Maybe even 
just from your own calculations, when you were living a life, 
as you admit, of crime, were you--were mandatory minimums 
affecting your thoughts? Were they acting as a deterrent of 
you, should you have gotten caught?
    Mr. Charles. Oh. No, the mandatory minimums--I'm dead set 
against mandatory minimums, the reason being is because I 
believe that the judge should have discretion to be able to 
sentence a person based on the particulars of that person: in 
other words, the past criminal history of that person, their 
role in the offense, as well as their culpability. I believe 
that the judge has the discretion to sentence a person to a 
shorter sentence or a longer sentence, based on that. When it 
comes to the mandatory minimums, you are bound by the 
guidelines to impose this sentence.
    In my case, when I received 35 years--and the mandatory 
minimum was invoked because the United States Sentencing 
Guidelines was mandatory when I was sentenced in 1996, and 
because of that, I received the 35-year sentence. As I stated 
earlier in my testimony today, that sentence exceeded by 20 
years what a sentence of 1-to-1 would have been, had my offense 
been powder cocaine. As a matter of fact, the judge that 
actually released me in 2019, Judge Aleta Trauger, she stated 
that, because I had satisfied my sentence for the other 
offenses, that I was entitled to immediate release. I satisfied 
those other sentences 10 or 12 years ago. It was the crack 
cocaine that continued to hold me bound.
    Senator Booker. The weapons possession and all that, you 
satisfied those, and in many ways you were seeing a longer 
sentence for yourself than actual violent offenders got for 
other crimes. That's correct, right?
    Mr. Charles. That is correct, sir.
    Senator Booker. You were a nonviolent drug offender, in for 
a longer period of time than people who showed a propensity 
toward violence; indeed, were convicted of violence. Thank you 
very much, Mr.--Mr. Coleman, you heard me, I had a great 
conversation with Senator Lee, and we were both talking about 
what the right rectification of this was, whether to lower the 
crack criminal penalties to equal the powder ones, or to raise 
the powder ones to equal the crack cocaine penalties. Could you 
give some thought--I asked Governor Hutchinson about that. I'm 
curious, from your perspective, what you think.
    Mr. Coleman. I'm grateful for the opportunity to revisit, 
because my default reaction was the converse of where we sit 
today. My default was, as a prosecutor, why should we concede? 
Why shouldn't we take the alternate route in bringing down 
those thresholds for powder? As I looked at the bill, and based 
upon my experience the last few years as a United States 
attorney and coupling it with the trend that--and that arc of 
justice with this Committee is toward removing low-level 
offenders from the Federal system so we can better steward our 
finite resources.
    As much as our NDAA, often times our State partners think 
we have unlimited resources in the Federal system, we don't. We 
can always use additional assistant United States attorneys. We 
can always use new agents. If we could take some of those 
resources that are being utilized to house low-level offenders 
or avoid, in this hypothetical, raking in a whole new category 
of low-level offenders that the State system is uniquely 
equipped to address, then that would be the preferred route.
    Again, my default reaction was just as you suggest, just as 
Senator Lee raised, to go the other route, but if we're 
attempting, as this Committee is, and what makes sense on the 
ground, to better steward limited resources and remove the 
lower-level offenders--from the Federal system, that is--again, 
by not--leaving in place--and I know there's disagreement in 
terms of mandatory minimums, but leaving those powerful tools 
in place, this route, your route, this bill, coupled with the 
ability to build that bridge, start building that bridge, 
addressing the limiting factor that we have between communities 
of color and law enforcement--again, this won't eliminate that, 
but this matters to communities in Louisville, Kentucky, 
African-American communities.
    I've heard it time and time again. They may not know the 
specific 841 provision, but they know that there's a disparity 
there. In terms of whether I'm trying to recruit a source or 
garner information or affect clearance rates, it's a limiting 
factor for law enforcement efficacy.
    Senator Booker. Mr. Coleman, I have another question for 
you, but I'm going to use the Chairman's prerogative and yield 
to my friend from Texas, Senator Cruz. He's got, I'm sure, a 
million things to do; I'm here for the duration. I'm going to 
yield and let my friend go ahead.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have a drug 
crisis in America. We have an opioid crisis in America that is 
taking far too many lives. Unfortunately, this drug crisis is 
getting worse with the open-border policies of Joe Biden and 
Kamala Harris. Since 1999, according to the CDC, nearly 850,000 
people have died from drug overdoses. One of those 850,000 was 
my sister Miriam.
    This is a crisis that affects everyone in America. The 
numbers are staggering. In the 12-month period ending in 
September 2020, over 90,000 people died of an overdose, a 
nearly 30 percent increase over the previous year. Cocaine 
overdose deaths are at record highs. Between 2013 and 2019, 
deaths involving cocaine more than tripled, and in 2020 alone, 
the CDC estimates that 20,000 Americans died from a drug 
overdose involving stimulants, including cocaine.
    Drugs not only take the lives of the users, but they lead 
to violence. Criminal dealers, cartels, gangs ruthlessly employ 
violence. According to the U.S. Sentencing Commission, weapons 
were involved in 25 percent of all drug trafficking offenses. 
Strikingly, nearly 40 percent of individuals convicted of 
trafficking crack cocaine carried a weapon. We're seeing the 
consequence in our communities as violent crime is soaring.
    Indeed, just today the White House has come out 
acknowledging the violent crime epidemic that is happening on 
this administration's watch. New York, for example, had 45 
percent more murders and 97 percent more shootings last year. 
Chicago had 274 more murders and almost 1,500 more shootings in 
2020 than in 2019.
    Fentanyl seizures this year are up 264 percent over last 
year. Cocaine seizures are up 149 percent from last year. 
According to the CBP, the southwest border is the key entry 
point for most drugs. Yet this Committee is not debating, ``How 
do we stop this massive flood of drugs that is killing 
Americans, killing children, killing vulnerable Americans, 
leading to violence, leading to trafficking, leading to gangs 
and cartels?'' We're not debating that.
    Mr. Garcia, would the bill before this Committee in any way 
address the problem of Mexican drug cartels smuggling cocaine 
and other dangerous drugs across the border?
    Mr. Garcia. Not that I can think of, Senator.
    Senator Cruz. When I visited the southern border this past 
March, the Laredo field office of the CBP told us that fentanyl 
seizures were up 2,067 percent. Cocaine seizures were up 187 
percent over the previous month. Mr. Garcia, do you agree that 
the current situation at the border makes it easier for Mexican 
drug cartels to smuggle illegal drugs like cocaine into the 
country?
    Mr. Garcia. We believe that the current situation at the 
border and how it has tied up our partners in the Border 
Patrol, primarily, has opened the door for those cartels to 
increase their smuggling of the various type of drugs.
    Senator Cruz. Can you please describe for this Committee 
the human consequences, the very real human consequences and 
harms that come from dramatically increased illegal drug 
traffic that is coming across our southern border right now?
    Mr. Garcia. The illegal drug trafficking trade, Senator, is 
the fact that it doesn't affect only those citizens here in 
this country. It affects the citizens from the source 
countries, to begin with, the transportation and the 
transnational company--countries that they traverse. At the 
border, it affects those people that are involved in the 
smuggling of it.
    It--forget the environmental impacts that it might have, 
but as those drugs reach the United States and they are 
distributed across this country, we don't know what it is 
that's being mixed with them. They found out that the use of 
fentanyl and fentanyl analogs, in addition to marijuana, 
cocaine, heroin, you name it--they're mixing it in with 
everything that they can, because the people that they're 
selling this poison to are getting an effect of it. To answer 
your question, it is devastating. It continues to devastate.
    Senator Cruz. A final question. If the Biden administration 
continues its open-border policy and we continue to see more 
and more illegal drug smuggling into this country, should we 
expect more and more overdoses, more and more violence, and 
more and more murders?
    Mr. Garcia. Senator, I speak to you as a law enforcement 
officer, not as the representative for ONDCP or even the HIDTA 
program, other than my fellow law enforcement officers. I come 
to you because you, as this body, have to do something to 
correct our judicial system. You have to do something to fix 
this.
    I'm providing you my experience and my expertise in law 
enforcement to tell you, whether it is the Biden administration 
or whether it's the prior administration or any other 
administration that comes after, if we don't secure our border 
and if we don't curtail the amount of drugs that are coming 
into this country, our citizens will continue to suffer. As a 
result, we have limited control over the violence, over the 
deaths, over the other types of crimes that are a result 
thereof.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you.
    Senator Booker. Thank you, Mr. Cruz. I would like to turn 
to Senator Blackburn now for her questioning.
    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Charles, I 
just want to say I am so delighted to see you here today.
    Mr. Charles. Thank you.
    Senator Blackburn. I want to thank you for continuing to be 
a voice and to speak up. I think it's necessary, and I think 
you have an important message, and you're an important voice in 
this entire discussion. Thank you very much for taking the time 
to be here today. You probably have found it's about as hot 
here as it is in Nashville.
    Mr. Charles. Yes, ma'am.
    Senator Blackburn. Welcome to this muggy weather.
    Mr. Garcia, I want to talk with you for just a moment, if I 
may. You were just talking about the impact of drugs and what 
you're seeing at the border, and of course you're right there 
in Texas. In Tennessee, I many times will say, because of the 
open-border situation that we're facing right now and have for 
the last several months, every town is becoming a border town 
and every State a border State. Certainly when I speak with law 
enforcement, they are living this out every day because of the 
impact of drugs on our city streets and in our communities.
    As I talk to moms, one of the things that they have 
mentioned to me is fentanyl, and you were just referencing 
this, so--and the distress that they're seeing with fentanyl 
now being used in pills that are made to look like prescription 
pills, fentanyl that is laced into marijuana, fentanyl that is 
laced into cocaine. These--this is deadly. It is absolutely 
deadly. If you would speak to the volume that you are seeing 
come across the border and how that compares to what we have 
seen in years earlier.
    Mr. Garcia. We're seeing--thank you, Senator Blackburn. We 
are seeing an increase in the amount of fentanyl coming across 
the border, not only in the south Texas area but primarily in 
Arizona and southern California. The fentanyl that is being 
produced in Mexico is being produced, namely, by the Sinaloa 
Cartel, as well as the----
    Senator Blackburn. That is El Chapo's cartel?
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, ma'am.
    Senator Blackburn. Okay.
    Mr. Garcia. The Cartel Nueva Generacion, the CNJ Cartel, 
that is also from the western part of the country. Therefore, 
in south Texas, although we are seeing an increase in fentanyl, 
we're not seeing it to the degree that our counterparts in 
Arizona and in southern Florida are.
    Senator Blackburn. The majority of drugs that are on the 
street in the country come across the Arizona border, correct?
    Mr. Garcia. I'm sorry?
    Senator Blackburn. The majority of street drugs that are in 
the country come across the Arizona border, correct?
    Mr. Garcia. The majority of the street drugs that are in 
this country come across the entire southwest border.
    Senator Blackburn. Okay.
    Mr. Garcia. From Brownsville to San Diego, it's--that's 
where it's coming across.
    Senator Blackburn. Okay.
    Mr. Garcia. Our fentanyl has increased, like I said, but 
for us, it is not our No. 1 drug of concern. Our No. 1 drug of 
concern right now is methamphetamine, but the problem that we 
face, as you stated earlier, Senator, is the fact that the 
fentanyl is being mixed with pretty much every other drug.
    Senator Blackburn. The number of deaths--Mr. Wasserman, I 
would assume you all are tracking deaths that are related to 
fentanyl. Have you seen an uptick? What kind of uptick are you 
seeing?
    Mr. Wasserman. I mean, the data from the government 
indicates that--and I believe Director LaBelle testified that 
75 percent of the deaths in 2020, of the 90,000 or so, had some 
opioid--and she may have even said fentanyl, if I heard her 
correctly--involved in the death. While I work in the District 
of Columbia, my knowledge is certainly more focused on that 
area. My understanding of the larger fentanyl problem is, yes, 
it's a serious epidemic.
    Senator Blackburn. I will tell you that this is something 
that moms talk about a lot, and the dangers that are associated 
with this, and the absolute fear. They look at how this has 
moved into middle school kids and the concerns that are there; 
children that do not know what they're coming up against. This 
is something that is just so deadly. We thank you for the work 
that you're doing. Mr. Charles, we thank you for your voice in 
this discussion.
    I have some other questions that will be submitted for 
responses in writing, and I thank you all for taking your time 
to come before us today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Booker. Senator Blackburn, we thank you always for 
your thoughtful questions. This has been a really constructive 
hearing. We're going to have to bring it to a close.
    I do want to say, on behalf of Senator Durbin, he called 
the first--12 years ago, the first hearing for the complete 
elimination of this disparity. He thought it was unjust then, 
and he's still been leading, in many ways, as my mentor in this 
effort. The Fair Sentencing Act, the First Step Act have 
brought us closer to doing away with this wrong, but we can't 
let another decade go by without addressing this injustice. We 
need the EQUAL Act, and we need to pass it into law.
    I know Senator Durbin pledges himself to this mission. I 
do, as well, and the great thing is, we have a bipartisan 
coalition that's growing, and some of my colleagues today have 
demonstrated their openness, at least, to potentially working 
with us on that.
    I want to put into the record letters of support for the 
EQUAL Act from the Major City Chiefs Association, from the Due 
Process Institute, from the National District Attorneys 
Association, from the Americans for Tax Reform, from R Street, 
and from the American Conservative Union.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    I want to say one more time to the witnesses, thank you for 
being here. All four of you, as I tried to indicate, and I hope 
people understand, are living your lives in accordance to the 
hope that we can make this Nation safer and stronger and better 
for all.
    I do, unfortunately, want to burden you a little bit more, 
because questions for the record will be open until Tuesday. As 
my friend Senator Blackburn said, she's going to have some 
questions for you all for the record. I imagine my team will, 
as well. The record's going to be open until June 29th, 2021, 
at 5 p.m., and the record will remain open to letters and 
similar materials.
    Senator Booker. With that gentlemen, I apologize; there is 
a lot going on, on the floor, right now, and I'm going to have 
to head there, and I won't be able to--Charles, I won't be able 
to get down there and hug you. I'm going to have to sprint out 
this way, man. I just try to hug all the bald people I see, 
brother, and you've got such a great head on your shoulders. No 
disrespect to the other gentlemen, but come on.
    Thank you, gentlemen. This has been really helpful. With 
that, this hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:47 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]

                            A P P E N D I X

Miscellaneous submissions:


 Heritage Foundation..............................................   101
 National Association of Police Organizations, Inc. (NAPO)........   109

 National Narcotic Officers' Associations' Coalition (NNOAC)......    98

 Office of the Special Narcotics Prosecutor for the City of New 
    York..........................................................    96

 San Diego Imperial Valley HIDTA..................................   110
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                 [all]