[Senate Hearing 117-568]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                       S. Hrg. 117-568

                     TO CONSIDER THE NOMINATION OF
                         KURT D. DELBENE TO BE
                ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF VETERANS AFFAIRS
                     FOR INFORMATION AND TECHNOLOGY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                            DECEMBER 8, 2021

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]      


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                              __________

                                
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
50-551 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2023                    
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
       
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     Jon Tester, Montana, Chairman
Patty Murray, Washington             Jerry Moran, Kansas, Ranking 
Bernard Sanders, Vermont                 Member
Sherrod Brown, Ohio                  John Boozman, Arkansas
Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut      Bill Cassidy, Louisiana
Mazie K. Hirono, Hawaii              Mike Rounds, South Dakota
Joe Manchin III, West Virginia       Thom Tillis, North Carolina
Kyrsten Sinema, Arizona              Dan Sullivan, Alaska
Margaret Wood Hassan, New Hampshire  Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee
                                     Kevin Cramer, North Dakota
                                     Tommy Tuberville, Alabama
                      Tony McClain, Staff Director
                 Jon Towers, Republican Staff Director
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                            DECEMBER 8, 2021

                                SENATORS

                                                                   Page
Tester, Hon. Jon, Chairman, U.S. Senator from Montana............     1
Murray, Hon. Patty, U.S. Senator from Washington.................     5
Hirono, Hon. Mazie K., U.S. Senator from Hawaii..................     7
Tuberville, Hon. Tommy, U.S. Senator from Alabama................     9
Tillis, Hon. Thom, U.S. Senator from North Carolina..............    11
Moran, Hon. Jerry, Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from Kansas......    13
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, U.S. Senator from West Virginia...........    16

                                WITNESS

Kurt D. DelBene, Nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Veterans 
  Affairs for Information and Technology.........................     3

                                APPENDIX
                          Nomination Material

Kurt D. DelBene, Nominee

  Prepared statement.............................................    27

  Response to Pre-hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:
    Hon. Jon Tester..............................................    29
    Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................    34

  Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:
    Hon. Marsha Blackburn........................................    39
    Hon. John Boozman............................................    42
    Hon. Sherrod Brown...........................................    43
    Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................    45
    Hon. Patty Murray............................................    47
    Hon. Kyrsten Sinema..........................................    49
    Hon. Dan Sullivan............................................    51

  Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................    52

 
                     TO CONSIDER THE NOMINATION OF
                         KURT D. DELBENE TO BE
                         ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF
                            VETERANS AFFAIRS
                     FOR INFORMATION AND TECHNOLOGY

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 8, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                            Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:05 p.m., via 
Webex and in Room SR-418, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. 
Jon Tester, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Tester, Murray, Brown, Hirono, Manchin, 
Sinema, Hassan, Moran, Cassidy, Tillis, and Tuberville.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN TESTER

    Chairman Tester. I call this hearing to order of the Senate 
Veterans' Affairs Committee. This hearing is on the 
confirmation of Kurt DelBene to be Assistant Secretary for 
Information and Technology at the Department of Veterans 
Affairs.
    Before we get started, I do want to take a moment to 
recognize two titans in the veterans' community that we lost 
this month, Bob Dole and Max Cleland. Both these men are 
decorated war veterans, severely injured during service, who 
continued to serve their country, including here in the United 
States Senate. They never stopped giving back and trying to 
find common ground to solve tough problems, and our nation owes 
them a debt of gratitude as they both are examples for all of 
us to follow. I will tell you I knew both these men, and 
quality was number one. These folks, irreplaceable.
    Now I want to turn back to the focus of this hearing. Mr. 
DelBene, I truly appreciate your willingness to serve. I also 
want to welcome your wife and the rest of your family that are 
here today.
    It is my hope and the hope of this Committee that you are 
up to this task. I believe after our meeting in my office a few 
days ago there is little doubt in my mind that you are. The 
members of this Committee that have met with you--and you have 
submitted written responses to the prehearing questions. I want 
to thank you for that. But your testimony and your answers 
today is going to help this Committee make the final 
determination.
    If confirmed, you would be responsible for managing all VA 
information and technology matters, from broadband in VA 
facilities to staff laptops to cybersecurity efforts on behalf 
of VA employees and veterans. So quite honestly, if your office 
does not work well, employees cannot do their jobs, veterans 
may not get their GI Bill payments on time, and an app for 
veterans to schedule their health care appointments just might 
not work. And while your office is not currently in charge of 
the Cerner EHR program at the VA, that program cannot recover 
without a well-functioning OIT office.
    More often than not, when Congress passes new legislation 
for the VA, OIT is called upon to deliver IT solutions to 
ensure the law is implemented effectively. And while there have 
been successes, there have also been significant IT challenges 
at the VA. So today I am interested in hearing about how, if 
confirmed, you will leverage your considerable experience over 
the last two decades of private sector work to apply to this 
VA.
    One of my ongoing priorities has been a bipartisan bill I 
have worked on with the Ranking Member and others to increase 
the transparency of VA's IT operation. That way, Congress can 
better judge the VA's performance and understand what 
authorities, guardrails, and funding may be needed to generate 
better outcomes. When we get that bill signed into law and if 
you are confirmed, I look forward to working with you on 
implementing it.
    If we did not know it before, the COVID-19 pandemic has 
clearly demonstrated that IT can, when managed correctly, 
provide veterans and VA employees with important tools to 
deliver care and benefits when in-person visits are not 
possible. I look forward to hearing about your views to 
strengthen VA's IT operations.
    Again, I truly want to thank you for your willingness to 
serve and look forward to your testimony and----
    Ms. Melendrez. Senator Moran is going to stay on the floor. 
So if you would like to do an intro for the nominee and then 
swear him in, I think we can get started.
    Chairman Tester. Okay. So, a little bit about Kurt DelBene. 
Kurt is a technology executive that spent over 15 years of his 
career as a senior executive at Microsoft. He retired from 
Microsoft in September 2021 as Executive Vice President of 
Corporate Strategy, Core Services Engineering, and Operations, 
leading the company's cross-engineering and cross business 
strategy, executing, and planning initiatives.
    From December 2013 to July 2014, after the website's 
initial failure, he was brought in to help fix Healthcare.gov 
as a senior advisor to the Secretary of Health and Human 
Services. Mr. DelBene helped assess and implement the path 
through the first open enrollment period, including 
troubleshooting issues encountered along the way and setting 
the project up for long term success.
    Now prior to joining Microsoft, Kurt DelBene was a 
management consultant with McKinsey and Company, focusing on 
business strategy for technology companies. He has also worked 
as a software developer and systems engineer for AT&T Bell 
Laboratories, working in graphics and imaging software and 
network switching systems.
    Kurt DelBene holds a master's of business administration 
degree from the University of Chicago, a master's of science 
degree from Stanford University, and a bachelor's in industrial 
engineering from the University of Arizona.
    Kurt DelBene is married to Democratic Congresswoman Suzan 
DelBene, who has represented Washington's 1st congressional 
district since 2012.
    Mr. DelBene, could you please stand and raise your right 
hand? Do you, Kurt DelBene, solemnly swear or affirm that the 
testimony you are about to give before the U.S. Senate 
Committee on Veterans' Affairs will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
    Mr. DelBene. I do.
    Chairman Tester. Let the record reflect that Mr. DelBene 
answered in the affirmative.
    You can go proceed with your testimony.

                  STATEMENT OF KURT D. DELBENE

    Mr. DelBene. Great. Thank you, Chairman Tester, Ranking 
Member Moran, and distinguished members of the Committee. My 
personal thanks also to our great Senator from Washington 
State, Patty Murray, for her support throughout the way. It is 
my true honor to be nominated as the Assistant Secretary for 
the Office of Information and Technology and Chief Information 
Officer of the Department of Veterans Affairs and to have an 
opportunity to talk with you today.
    I would like to start by introducing and thanking my family 
who is with me this morning, or this afternoon, and for their 
support. As you said, my wife, Suzan, is a member of the House 
of Representatives, representing Washington State's 1st 
congressional district. Our daughter, Rebecca, works in 
philanthropy in the Seattle area. Our son, Zach, is a software 
developer, and his partner, Lisa, is a software program 
manager. I am so proud of them and thankful for their support 
through the years.
    I am honored to be considered to serve as the CIO and to 
serve our Nation's veterans. My father served in the United 
States Army in World War II, and my stepfather served in the 
U.S. Navy. I grew up with the deepest respect for our military 
and for veterans who have committed themselves to the difficult 
and often dangerous work of defending us.
    I grew up in a family where service to others is a 
priority. My mother was a therapist specializing in helping 
people struggling from substance abuse. My father was a 
counselor for troubled, incarcerated youth. My sister is a 
director of nursing at UW Medical Center. My wife, Suzan, has 
dedicated herself to serving our Nation in Congress. I am also 
proud of our daughter's work with Youth Eastside Services, 
helping troubled youth.
    All these are examples of service that have helped 
reinforce in me a personal responsibility to serve to the 
greatest extent I am able. This priority is what called me to 
help fix the Affordable Care Act website, Healthcare.gov, when 
it failed, and it is what drives my passion to serve the VA, 
our veterans, and their families today.
    I spent most of my professional career at Microsoft. During 
that time, I had the honor to act as the executive sponsor of 
the Department of Defense and to serve the DOD's Defense 
Innovation Board, a board of tech professionals and academics 
that helped some of the DOD's hardest problems get solved. In 
both these capacities, I have experienced over and over the 
commitment, the intelligence, and the devotion that our men and 
women in the Armed Forces have for our nation, our citizens, 
and for each other. From these experiences, I have developed a 
deep-seated belief that veterans, their families, and their 
caregivers deserve our strongest possible commitment to support 
throughout their lives.
    If confirmed, I am excited to leverage my experience 
leading large software development projects and teams of 
similar size and complexity to help our Nation's veterans, to 
leverage best practices in commercial software development, to 
strengthen the IT processes in the VA, and to further enhance 
the already established culture of excellence.
    I believe there has never been a more important time for IT 
excellence to play a role in the VA and in government overall. 
Information systems are at the heart of delivering critical 
services to veterans, especially now that the modernization of 
critical systems is underway. The Department is undertaking a 
large and complex replacement of their electronic medical 
record system, updating their financial management and 
logistics systems, and making critical enhancements to their 
benefits systems to enable support for caregivers. Excellence 
in delivering on the core mission of the VA depends on success 
of these systems' transformations. That is what drives me to 
step up and serve at this critical moment.
    I have led similar, highly complex transformations in my 
time as a senior executive at Microsoft. I led the Microsoft 
Office organization during its transformation from on-premises 
software to world-class cloud service. I led the transformation 
of our internal systems development teams into a world-class 
software development organization. I believe that this same 
transformation is possible and within our grasp, not just for 
the VA, for the entire government as well.
    I do not come to this potential role thinking that tech can 
solve everything or that commercial best practices can be 
transferred as is to a large and complex organization like the 
VA. I do, however, believe that for such projects to be 
successful they must start with a clear vision, a clear 
development plan, success metrics, and strong collaboration and 
partnerships with all stakeholders, including Members of 
Congress. Members play a critical role in oversight, enabling 
legislation and critical veteran support work, work that I have 
seen countless times in Suzan's office.
    I believe that OIT can be a truly world-class organization 
and can be the source of great pride for the VA just as the 
health care and benefits provided to the veterans and their 
families through the Department are today. This sense of pride 
can, in turn, further enhance the team's capabilities and their 
joy and satisfaction in the work that they do.
    So I am here today both humbled and excited by the 
challenges that the Office of Information and Technology has in 
front of it. If confirmed, I commit to do everything in my 
power to deliver on the core mission of the VA, build a world 
class technology organization, and to use it to serve our 
veterans, their families and caregivers. Thank you, and I look 
forward to our discussion today.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. DelBene appears on page 27 
of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Tester. I want to thank you for your statement, 
Mr. DelBene, and I will also tell you that I look forward to 
getting you confirmed so you can get on the job and start doing 
what I think can be some really, really, really good work for 
our veterans and this Nation.
    So if you are confirmed, one of the challenges you are 
going to face is how to prioritize which projects and areas get 
IT funding, maintaining old systems versus replacing with new 
equipment versus funding new projects. So you have considerable 
experience, and from that experience in the private sector how 
would you approach setting up a process so that every part of 
VA has its top IT needs addressed?
    Mr. DelBene. Right. It is a great question. Thank you for 
that. And you inevitably get into the situation where the money 
does not meet all of the demands that everybody would have. I 
think for me the goal is to, first, if I was confirmed, I think 
I would jump in and understand all the needs across the entire 
organization and really start with what is the vision for that 
organization, what are the key things that need to get 
accomplished next. And then you have really got to stack-rank 
the priorities for each organization super clearly. There can 
only be one priority one followed by a priority two, et cetera.
    And that is actually a challenging thing to do in and of 
its own right. You have to do that in collaboration with 
stakeholders so that they agree that those are the relative 
priorities. And then you have to bring it together across the 
different silos, if you will, the different investment 
portfolios, and then have the really difficult discussion of 
how do you trade-off what seems to be different things that 
they are all high priority. I think there you need to step back 
to the overall mission of the organization, collaborate with 
peers and with the Secretary, understand what all of their 
priorities are, and really come to that clear understanding.
    At some point, there is always going to be those trade-offs 
and things that do not get prioritized as highly. You try to 
find workarounds, and some things you just have to defer and 
are going to get done in the future. But again, the things that 
you do do you need to make sure are clearly the high priority 
for the entire organization.
    Chairman Tester. Thank you for that. I want to reserve my 3 
minutes and 15 seconds I have left and turn it over to the good 
Senator from Washington.

                      SENATOR PATTY MURRAY

    Senator Murray. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. And, 
Kurt, it is great to see you here. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Moran, I really--I am glad we 
are having this hearing here today. It is a real pleasure for 
me to have the opportunity to--although he has already been 
introduced--reintroduce to you Kurt DelBene as this Committee 
considers his nomination to serve as Assistant Secretary for 
the Office of Information and Technology and Chief Information 
Officer of the Department of Veterans Affairs.
    I think everybody on this Committee really understands the 
seriousness that our obligation has to our veterans, that when 
people serve this country, they come home, we take care of them 
the best we can. And part of living up to that commitment is 
building the kind of technological infrastructure that has 
really been missing at the VA. It is well past time that the VA 
move into the 21st century, and Mr. DelBene is uniquely 
qualified to lead this effort.
    Top of mind for me, as the Chairman knows, has been the 
really unacceptable system failures since the rollout of the 
new electronic health record system being piloted at Spokane 
VAMC in my home State of Washington and Kurt's. There is 
absolutely no reason in 2021 that the United States of America 
should not be able to deploy a state-of-the-art electronic 
health record system, and when it comes to the health of our 
veterans the VA needs to be doing everything it can to get this 
right.
    And I am here today and really happy to introduce Mr. 
DelBene because I believe he is the right person for this job, 
and for me it comes down to a couple of key determinations. 
First of all, he is qualified. His work as a senior executive 
at Microsoft means he will be able to hit the ground running 
and lead on upgrading VA systems. Managing major projects in a 
large organization requires experience, and Mr. DelBene has a 
proven track record here. At Microsoft he served on the Defense 
Innovation Board to help the Department of Defense come up with 
solutions to some of the toughest technological problems facing 
our military.
    And I think this is very important. He stepped up and led 
the private sector to help fix Healthcare.gov. Wading in and 
trying to fix the Affordable Care Act website was not glamorous 
work. If anything, Mr. DelBene signed up for a very tough, high 
stakes job in a politically charged environment. But he kept 
his head down, he did the work, and he delivered because 
millions of families were counting on him. This is what we need 
to see at the VA.
    Mr. DelBene comes from my home State of Washington, and he 
is someone who believes in serving others. His record shows it, 
and he has grown up all his life around his family who lives 
the same values. Many of us know the character of his wife, our 
colleague in the House, Congresswoman Suzan DelBene.
    And I believe it really matters that we do appoint someone 
qualified, who is ready to do this job for the right reasons, 
because this work is going to be hard and the stakes are high. 
But I have spoken with Mr. DelBene, and he is up to this task. 
I believe in his vision and his passion to bring VA into the 
21st century.
    And here on the Veterans' Affairs Committee, Republicans 
and Democrats have always been able to find common ground in 
order to make sure this government is living up to its promise 
to our veterans because at the end of the day I believe 
everyone on this Committee is firmly committed to getting the 
job done for the women and men who serve this country. So let 
us confirm someone for this job who can get it done. I urge 
this Committee, Mr. Chairman, to waste no time in advancing 
this nomination so he can be confirmed and get to work for our 
veterans as soon as possible.
    And, Mr. Chairman, I have several questions. I will just 
submit them for the record, but thank you for allowing me to 
speak.
    Chairman Tester. Absolutely. Look, I could not agree with 
you more, Senator Murray. I think we have an incredible 
opportunity--and I am going to get to you in a second, Senator 
Hirono. We have an incredible opportunity to get somebody into 
the VA, doing the work in IT that needs to be done, that I 
really think we can have confidence in. So we will revert back 
to that.
    Senator Hirono, you have the floor.

                      SENATOR MAZIE HIRONO

    Senator Hirono [presiding]. Thank you very much. It is very 
clear that the two of you have utmost confidence in Mr. 
DelBene.
    Mr. DelBene, I ask the following two initial questions of 
every nominee who appears before any of the committees on which 
I sit, so I will ask you these initial questions. Since you 
have become a legal adult, have you ever made unwanted requests 
for sexual favors or committed any verbal or physical 
harassment or assault of a sexual nature?
    Mr. DelBene. I have not.
    Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered 
into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
    Mr. DelBene. No, I have not.
    Senator Hirono. One of the major issues that we have been 
tackling in VA is the issue of the electronic health records, 
and I note that your responsibility explicitly does not put you 
in charge of the Electronic Health Record Modernization 
program. And I am just wondering why not because you are the 
guy; you are the IT guy. Why aren't you in charge of the system 
that we have spent over a billion dollars and only now are we 
saying that we have a system that kind of, you know, does what 
we expect it to do, as well as I think we are trying to get it 
in alignment with the records of the active--people who are in 
active service?
    Mr. DelBene. Well, thank you for your question. There was a 
reorganization, as you well know, in the VA that was announced 
last week of creating an executive director who would be 
responsible to the Deputy directly, the Deputy Secretary, to 
really focus on that project and then functional leaders 
underneath that would really take, you know, the perspective of 
health care and the patient, of IT and policy. And so I think 
that the goal there is to get somebody really, really focused 
and have the Deputy Secretary really dig in and lead that and 
feel that sense of responsibility.
    Having said that, I believe that there is an opportunity 
for me to take the experience that I have had----
    Senator Hirono. Yes.
    Mr. DelBene [continuing]. In the private sector and in 
working on the Affordable Care Act's website to help. And I 
think you can count on me jumping in and getting involved with 
those teams to really see every place that I can provide my 
background, my understanding and help there. I think that is 
distinguished from the whole notion of who would be the 
particular leader.
    Senator Hirono. I think that whoever is going to be leading 
EHRM has to have the kind of background and experience that 
apparently you have. So I hope that whoever is doing that 
actually can do it and that as you seek to work with that 
person--in fact, is that person in place already?
    Mr. DelBene. The person----
    Senator Hirono. To do the EHRM.
    Mr. DelBene. That would be the overall director. I believe 
they have announced who that person would be, yes.
    Senator Hirono. Okay. So I hope that you will have that 
opportunity and there is not going to be this siloing of 
responsibility so that all of the experience that you can bring 
to bear is not fully utilized.
    As we look at IT challenges, so clarify for me because you 
are going to be the Assistant Secretary for Information and 
Technology. So is it information to the veterans themselves 
that you would be also responsible for?
    Mr. DelBene. It is all of--it is the systems that that 
service or that care is delivered via. And so all of the--if 
you think about the main systems that are IT systems, be 
responsible for how they are developed, how they are 
maintained, and ultimately how that capability is delivered to 
the end user. I really think that it is important to look at it 
end to end in that way. If you think about there are people who 
build systems and think about it only from the perspective of 
does it do exactly what it is expected, I think you have to 
start with what are you trying to accomplish for the end user, 
and that is how I approach things.
    Senator Hirono. I agree. And isn't the end user the 
veteran?
    Mr. DelBene. Yes, it is.
    Senator Hirono. So I talk with a lot of veterans who do not 
rely on the internet, for example, for information from the VA, 
and one of the concerns is that there is a lot of information 
that never gets to the veterans in a way that they understand 
what their--what kind of benefits and resources they can look 
to. So is that part of what you are going to be responsible 
for, that this information actually gets to them?
    Mr. DelBene. I think you are talking about some of the 
complexities that exist in the problem of actually serving 
veterans with these systems. I think in cases where they are 
not computer literate themselves oftentimes there will be 
somebody, a caregiver or a member of the VA, that will help 
them. But you also have to go back to not just the vets that 
are computer literate but the entire population and figure out 
are they all getting care and what can you do to actually 
improve care, even if you are less literate in the systems 
themselves. So it becomes a complex and multifaceted problem.
    Senator Hirono. Yes. And I am particularly interested in 
all those veterans out there who do not have the kind of--who 
do not access the kind of tools that you are talking about.
    Mr. DelBene. Right.
    Senator Hirono. I am also really interested in your 
development of telemedicine as a way to really ensure that the 
veterans get the care they need as well as I have a bill that I 
have been working on that I am going to want to work with you, 
having to do with just data collection and access to data that 
will enable the VA to really understand the veterans and 
their--I guess identifying information that will enable us to 
better meet their needs. So that is something that I would like 
to be in touch with you on.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. DelBene. And I would look forward to working with you 
on that.
    Senator Hirono. Where did he go? Am I left to my own 
devices? Oh.
    Senator Tuberville. My turn?
    Senator Hirono. Yes, please, Senator Tuberville.

                    SENATOR TOMMY TUBERVILLE

    Senator Tuberville. Thank you very much. Thank you for 
being here. Just me and you, we can sit here and make 
conversation. I saw everybody else going to vote. But, you 
know.
    And thank you for your willingness to serve, you know, and 
what you are doing is going to help a lot of folks. You know, 
in Alabama we have 400,000 veterans in our State and got a lot 
of VAs, and we have got problems as everybody else, but you 
know, we need to take care of our veterans. I came from a 
military family. I understand it.
    You have worked in a major implementation effort with 
Healthcare.gov. Currently, the VA is undergoing a massive, 
multipronged modernization effort addressing financial 
management and health care records and supply chain management. 
What challenges did you encounter while rolling out 
Healthcare.gov, and how would you apply your lessons learned to 
ensure a successful rollout of FMBT, EHRM, and supply chain 
modernization?
    Mr. DelBene. Well, thank you for the question. I think 
there is a number of learnings from the rollout of 
Healthcare.gov that are appropriate here or applicable here. 
The first thing is the way they approached that problem is 
essentially define an architecture and then sub it out to 
different contractors and have them work largely autonomous 
with each other and then bring it back together in the end. So 
it probably is not very surprising that when it came back 
together it actually did not function. And a lot of the--there 
was a bit of finger-pointing about like is this in my part of 
the system or is this in your part of the system. It really 
gets down to you need to have a team that works across these 
contractors in a complex way as a single team, and then nobody 
is pointing fingers at each other as to where the problem 
resides.
    The second thing is we brought people in from the security 
portion of the organization, from the end user help part of the 
organization, and created a virtual team across all of the 
stakeholders to make sure that we had the representation of all 
the problems that we were seeing.
    And the third thing I would say, which was really critical, 
is really to get clear on priorities. And you cannot--you know, 
when you get into an organization that is not functioning as 
well as it is, everything is priority one. Yet, you cannot do 
everything as a first priority at the same time. So you have 
got to strictly say, these are the things we are going to get 
accomplished in this order.
    And then you have to have transparency with stakeholders 
and with external organizations and say: Look, this is the 
stuff we are not going to get done for now, and we know why. We 
will explain to you why that is not getting done. And this is 
the stuff you can count on us delivering to you right now.
    And so a lot of that is what we kind of take for granted in 
the commercial space as how you function, but it is something 
that we can bring, I think, to the health records management 
project and to all the projects in VA.
    Senator Tuberville [presiding]. I cannot imagine all the 
different entities that you work with. You know, being a 
football coach just trying to put people together and working 
together is hard enough. I cannot imagine all over this country 
doing, you know, the new implementation.
    People are your most important asset in this business. Most 
of the Office of Information and Technology's resources go 
toward basic operations, like keeping the networks running, but 
you also need software development and you need talent. And, 
you need a core group of people who probably could make a lot 
more money in the private sector; we all know that. I mean, big 
tech is really hurting a lot of people, you know, when it comes 
to making money. I have got a son graduating this Saturday. He 
has already got a job in big tech and because it was easy. 
There is not many out there.
    What types of software development skills are most 
important in what you are getting ready to do, and how are you 
going to recruit and retain these people, you know, that you 
are going to need to implement this?
    Mr. DelBene. It is a great question and something that I 
have given a lot of thought to. As you say, the differences in 
salaries between the public sector and the private sector are 
very large today.
    Senator Tuberville. Coaching and being a Senator is a lot 
different. You all have seen the salaries. So it is the same 
thing.
    Mr. DelBene. I think there is a couple of things I think 
are important. I think you have to figure out what are the 
linchpin roles, the critical roles, whether that is the 
quarterback on the field or the tight end----
    Senator Tuberville. Yes.
    Mr. DelBene [continuing]. And figure out how are you going 
to create a process for how we work that leverages those key 
capabilities and has those people in the right place.
    So for instance in Microsoft, we have a really critical 
role called a program manager, what many in the industry call a 
product manager. Those are people who understand the needs very 
deeply of projects but also can dive deep into what the details 
are of the program.
    And so if you are thinking about you are probably still 
going to have to outsource a lot of the software development to 
contractors, but it needs to be a deep interconnectedness, that 
that program manager plays a really important role. And so if 
the organization can transform itself to be very focused on 
what the status is and the progress is on those key projects, 
and if we can get really world-class program managers, for 
example, in those key roles that are interacting deeply with 
contractors, I think we can change the tenor of the 
organization to be really energized in the role of delivering 
to veterans, which is an energizing, you know, occupation and 
thing to be engaged in to begin with.
    I think we can also have pathways where it is clear you can 
start your career in the VA and move into the private sector 
and be very successful and also move from the private sector 
into the VA to deliver on the needs of those veterans as well.
    Senator Tuberville. In Microsoft, did you all use a lot of 
subcontractors? I mean, did you go out and use them, and do you 
foresee maybe doing that in this endeavor?
    Mr. DelBene. Well, I--we did in--we used to say that we 
would use a subcontractor in a place where it was not the 
critical system we were developing, but we are in a very 
different position in our ability to actually hire software 
developers. I think we are going to have to continue to 
outsource more or have more subcontractors in the VA, but it is 
not a--it cannot be as much of an arm's length transaction. It 
has to be a place where we deeply understand what is going on 
in those projects and we are kind of part of that team as 
opposed to thinking a bit more arm's length.
    So I think there is a model here that does not require--and 
you hear a lot of people talking about we just need to have 
tons and tons of software developers in the VA. We would 
benefit from more software developers in the VA, but if we can 
get this rich model working that has good interaction I think 
we can accomplish our goals.
    Senator Tuberville. Well, thank you and good luck to you. 
It is going to be a hard endeavor, but we look forward to 
helping you. So thanks for your service.
    Chairman Tester, this will go on my resume as a chairman at 
one time of the Veterans' Affairs Committee for about 10 
minutes.
    Chairman Tester [presiding]. Never, never been done better. 
I will just tell you that.
    Senator Tuberville. Thank you very much.
    Chairman Tester. Senator Tillis.

                      SENATOR THOM TILLIS

    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. DelBene, thank you for being here. You have got an 
impressive resume. I look forward to supporting your 
nomination. One thing I was curious about, have you been read 
into the organizational changes, the program office, or I think 
they call it the enterprise office, for the EHRM?
    Mr. DelBene. Not deeply. I have seen the press that has 
been announced, and that is about the level that I have seen it 
at this point.
    Senator Tillis. Well, I think it is healthy. I think it is 
going to be important to have people in there to mobilize the 
organizational structure, stand up the joint office with the 
DOD, but I think your experience can be a great accelerator 
there.
    You know, when we were--I started my career in IT, in 
enterprise implementation work, and it was not a surprise to me 
when they rolled out the first iteration of the EHRM up in the 
Northwest that they were going to run into problems. A part of 
that is just the nature of change management, enterprise 
transformation. A part of it is a lot of legacy systems and a 
lot of different practices for doing the same thing.
    Are you familiar with the concept of an application 
inventory and comprehensive inventory reconciliation? Do you 
think that is something the VA needs to do to better prepare 
for future implementations?
    Mr. DelBene. Well, I think it is always important to 
understand the entire landscape of all the systems that you 
have out there, how they are interconnected, if nothing else, 
from a security perspective. You need--as you, from working in 
the industry, know, you need to understand that landscape to 
find out the points of vulnerability, the places where you need 
to enhance things and just for the security, the privacy of the 
information, et cetera.
    So I do agree that--and it is my nature when I go into 
roles to understand the entire landscape and from there distill 
it, as we always do, into the priorities, which are the systems 
that are working okay now, which are the systems that are in 
desperate need of improvement as well. So, yes, I agree on 
having that broad brush but very deep understanding of 
everything in the domain.
    Senator Tillis. Tell me a little bit about how your concept 
of ruthless prioritization worked in coming in and getting 
Healthcare.gov on sound footing?
    Mr. DelBene. Well, as I said, when we entered as a team, 
there were a lot of priority ones. And especially when the team 
is just trying to improve their own execution, as you well know 
from your time in industry, that is the time when the team 
needs to get focused.
    And so we were looking at cases where, first, early on, 
people could not actually get through the system at all, so you 
could not get people to get health care. Beyond that, it came 
to the point where there were people showing up at the hospital 
that thought they had health care insurance but actually did 
not. So the most important thing for us early on was to get 
claims adjudicated, and in that kind of a world you need to 
talk about what are the features that are needed and fixes just 
to get adjudication working. And so you take the prioritization 
across those most important things.
    At the same time, you look very clearly at the things you 
are just not going to get to. And so things like the financial 
reconciliation on the back end, we knew we had some time to do 
that. But we also knew we were going to get some grief of 
people saying, ``why aren't you doing this work?'' And we were 
very clear and said, we are not doing that work because we have 
got other higher priority work that we have got to get done 
first.
    And so that is kind of the notion of ruthless 
prioritization. You do not get to have two P1s. There is only 
one P1 followed by a P2 and down the line from there.
    Senator Tillis. When you are confirmed--and I hope we can 
do it on an expedited basis because I think it is going to be 
important for some of the transformation efforts that I agree 
with within the Department--what are your first 120 days going 
to look like?
    Mr. DelBene. Well, I think it is important, one, to 
understand the people involved, what does the team look like, 
what are the strengths and challenging areas in the 
organization. So that is certainly one part of it.
    I tend to be the kind of a person who gets deeply involved 
in a project and understanding everything that is going on 
everywhere. You cannot understand to the minutest detail, but I 
love to get into the details and understand things, 
understanding what is going on with stakeholders. So I am very 
interested, for instance, as we talked about, what are the 
challenges that have happened in the EHR system, what are the 
key things that need to get changed. And understanding that, 
you know, that is one of a number of projects across the board.
    So my first 120 days I would like to understand the 
organization, have a vision for where that organization is 
going, have a look at what all the projects are, and get into 
that prioritization of what is the work that has got to be done 
in connection with the stakeholders, and really get on that 
rhythm of starting to get success upon success, where you are 
delivering for end users, in this case, veterans.
    Senator Tillis. Once you are confirmed--I am confident you 
will be--I would like to have your commitment for me to be able 
to come over to your turf and meet with the program office for 
the EHRM and not do anything but listen to a good program 
office review, see that prioritization in place, and continue 
to convince me that we have got the right people on the ground 
to deal with some of the toe-stubbings we had in the first 
rollout. But I think we have got a well-articulated plan, and I 
want to do everything I can to help see it realized.
    Mr. DelBene. I would welcome that kind of collaboration. I 
think that transparency and really getting into partnership 
with stakeholders is really kind of central to how I like to 
work, and so I would welcome that.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you and thank you for being willing 
to do the job.
    Mr. DelBene. Thank you.
    Chairman Tester. Senator Cassidy online.
    [No audible response.]
    Chairman Tester. He is gone? The Honorable, most Honorable 
Gentleman and Ranking Member, Senator Moran.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MORAN

    Senator Moran. Mr. Chairman, thank you.
    Mr. DelBene, thank you very much for being with us. Thank 
you for your interest in serving in this capacity.
    The Office of Legal Counsel at the Department of Justice 
issued an opinion letter in 2017 stating that oversight 
requests from ``individual Members of Congress, including 
ranking minority members'' . . .'' do not trigger any 
obligation to accommodate congressional needs.'' Knowing your 
family history, I hope you find that offensive. And I would ask 
you that despite the DOJ's opinion on this matter, will you 
commit to accommodating congressional oversight requests 
regardless of party affiliation or committee status of the 
member making the request?
    Mr. DelBene. Well, thank you for that question. I think 
that is the way the VA has worked with both Majority and 
Minority, and you have my commitment to honoring the requests 
that you have because we are all in this together and it is all 
about being sure everybody has the information needed to play 
their role.
    Senator Moran. Thank you. And I do not think if you--I take 
that as an answer being, yes, you will provide the information 
requested, and I do not think that puts you outside anybody 
else that we have confirmed at the Department of Veterans 
Affairs.
    The VA requested less funding for OIT in its fiscal year 
'22 budget request compared to last year. The average Federal 
agency IT budget is roughly 9.8 percent of their agency's 
discretionary budget. The VA's IT budget is less than 5 percent 
of overall discretionary spending. In an era of increasing 
demand for information technology, explain to me how you will 
be successful with such a small budget that is not keeping up 
with the growth and demand of the Department as well as staff 
shortages of over 4,000 IT specialists?
    Mr. DelBene. Well, thank you for the question. Right now I 
am not well read into the budget request----
    Senator Moran. The part about the budget may just have been 
a putting people on notice, but I assume that you would have an 
opinion as to--about the needs that you will have, financial 
and otherwise.
    Mr. DelBene. I think it is super important in the role to 
understand the budget very deeply. And when I led my 
organizations in Microsoft we would get very detailed in 
understanding what are all the different programs, what is the 
amount of allocated to each one of those programs, and then 
talking about which ones are sufficient and which ones are 
inadequate.
    And so I think I--one of the very first things I will do is 
understand not just what the projects are in terms of the work 
but in terms of the funding levels and whether they are 
adequate. And then I think if they are not adequate we need to 
come back and have a discussion about how we can improve. You 
can either improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the work 
you are doing, or you can figure out how you are going to 
change the resource levels for those to be appropriate.
    I do think--please.
    Senator Moran. No, please. I did not mean to interrupt.
    Mr. DelBene. I was just going to say I do think benchmarks, 
like the percentage of budgets that are allocated toward IT, 
are important ones. And for that number to be out of line with 
industry standards I think it is something you would look to, 
to see whether that--whether the funding level is appropriate 
or not.
    Senator Moran. Thank you. Several members of this Committee 
are members of the appropriations committee that funds the 
Department of Veterans Affairs, and this is a good forum for 
you to make your case.
    I think I am--my understanding is the Chairman has to leave 
and I am going to close out the hearing after other members 
have had the chance to ask questions, and I may have a couple 
of more questions. But while the Chairman is here, a couple of 
topics I wanted to raise in my opening statement unrelated to 
the witness today.
    I want to acknowledge the date in history yesterday, 
December 7th, and the 80th anniversary of the Japanese attack 
on Pearl Harbor, which put the United States into the world war 
with the Axis Powers, and I would want to express my gratitude 
to all those who served in World War II, and once again we 
would say, thank you.
    Secondly, I would note in perhaps the same vein but a more 
personal one; I would note the passing of Senator Bob Dole. And 
I appreciate the Committee's efforts to acknowledge and honor 
his life and his service to the nation, and I appreciate my 
colleagues in the Senate who have expressed their condolences 
to me as a Kansan and me as a personal friend of Senator Dole.
    And I have indicated numerous times in my comments, public 
and private, that I am of the belief--and I do not know this, 
but I would--my impression and my understanding would be that 
Senator Bob Dole's life in the United States Senate, in the 
Congress, as a Presidential candidate, as a Vice Presidential 
candidate was hugely formed by the circumstances he encountered 
first at home in a small town in Kansas, but secondly his 
experience as a--in the Army and his tremendous, horrific 
injuries that he encountered, changing his life forever in what 
we would know in a physical way, but creating a commitment to 
public service, to people with disabilities, veterans.
    We were at the World War II Memorial this morning, at which 
we paid honor to Senator Dole, again a tribute that he helped 
create, in a significant way he created. And I have been to the 
World War II Memorial with many honor flights, and Senator Dole 
would be there. And he did not come to be on a pedestal or, you 
know, receive the applause of veterans who came to see the 
memorial. He was there to thank those veterans for their 
service.
    And I would just use this as a moment to remind my 
colleagues of the tremendous service by a great veteran, one 
who happens to be from Kansas.
    Finally--if you want to say something, Mr. Chairman?
    Chairman Tester. Well, I would just say that is entirely 
appropriate and in my opening statement I did talk about 
Senator Dole and talked about Max Cleland, Senator Cleland too, 
both people who I think you and I would both agree we need more 
of in this world and not some--neither one will be replaced. 
There is no doubt about that. But, people who set an example 
that we can aspire to.
    Senator Moran. Well, Mr. Chairman, thank you. And I do 
share those views. I would indicate you caused me to think of 
something else, which is that Senator Dole was cared for by the 
Department of Veterans Affairs in a VA hospital in Michigan, 
whereby just by circumstance, perhaps fate, he was treated at 
the same time that the later Senator Dan Inouye was treated at 
the same hospital. They became friends and then disappeared 
from each other's lives only to rediscover each other in the 
United States Senate. And the same was true for Senator Hart, 
who was also at the VA hospital, now Dole VA Hospital, in 
Michigan. And it is another reminder of how important the 
Department of Veterans Affairs and its hospitals and its 
benefits are to those who served our Nation.
    And I also would just perhaps more in passing, to say that 
this year, 2021, marks the 50th anniversary of this Committee's 
existence. And, Mr. Chairman and my fellow committee members, I 
would express the gratitude I have to serve on this Committee 
with you, and I am pleased to continue to be able to tell my 
constituents it is the last haven--I hope not the last, but 
seemingly the last haven--of bipartisanship. And I hope we can 
spread the way that we do business in this Committee to all the 
other committees I serve on and all the committees that we 
serve on in the United States Senate.
    So, Mr. Chairman, thank you for the manner in which you 
treat me. And sometimes I have the sense that you treat my 
colleagues on the Republican side better than you treat the 
Ranking Member, but beyond that you treat us all pretty darn 
well.
    Chairman Tester. Well, they are nicer. No, I did not say 
that.
    Senator Manchin. Sometimes better than on the Majority 
side, too.
    Chairman Tester. What I would have to say to all that is 
just ``Amen, brother.''
    Senator Manchin.

                      SENATOR JOE MANCHIN

    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. DelBene, I appreciate you being here and appreciate you 
are willing to serve in this capacity. In your prehearing 
questions, you acknowledged the need to expand broadband to 
veterans in rural areas. And I come from West Virginia. My 
entire State is rural. I do not have one city larger than 
50,000. The largest city in West Virginia is 49,000 people. So 
I have a state of towns, and they are wonderful, but basically 
we are rural.
    And broadband to--veterans in rural areas need the access 
that they have in urban areas, but the VA benefits and health 
care, we could not even do telehealth. We had to do audio only 
telehealth, and they reimburse. Just an unbelievable situation.
    So I would say, if confirmed, how will you balance 
expanding initiatives like telehealth while also ensuring that 
rural veterans have access to broadband, that you can interact 
with FCC, things of that, showing where your real problem areas 
are?
    Mr. DelBene. Thank you for the question. And I think you 
hit on a couple of the areas that I think are really key there. 
For one, there is a signal out of--that will come out of the VA 
of where the health care is needed----
    Senator Manchin. Absolutely.
    Mr. DelBene [continuing]. And where there are gaps, and I 
think it is important for us. And we can use the data that we 
have in systems and elsewhere in the VA to inform, hey, here is 
the relative priorities of where we need to improve----
    Senator Manchin. What I might ask you to do, though, what 
is really important, the maps, the FCC maps have been horrible. 
They are showing basically coverage where there is no coverage, 
and that is because it has been self-reporting from the 
broadband or internet services themselves. They are showing 
larger swaths of America they are covering when they are not, 
and that gives them a little bit more areas.
    Anyway, the maps working and the maps first, and 
identifying and looking at the FCC maps, we have been trying to 
correct those. You all could be invaluable in helping correct 
that.
    Mr. DelBene. I think that is right. I think we can 
basically look at where we have gaps in service, where we 
cannot go in, in telehealth, and contrast that with where the 
map is and identify those places where maybe a change in the 
priority needs to exist so that we can actually get that 
coverage.
    The other thing I think you can think about is telehealth 
at different levels. You know, a device that is a cuff that 
connects via cellular to the VA to monitor blood pressure is 
another solution. So you do not have to think of it as all full 
audio-video telehealth. There are gradations there, and we need 
to think about how we deliver on multiple levels and expand it 
overall.
    Senator Manchin. So you will have the opportunity to bring 
the VA into the technology world really and increase that, and 
we need that desperately. We really, really do.
    Mr. DelBene. I could not agree more.
    Senator Manchin. Professional areas in the State and all 
over the country and in VA hospitals and CBOCs and everything 
else, they are in high demand of needing quality people, 
personnel. So whether it be cybersecurity, whether it be 
nurses, whether it be doctors, whatever it be, it is difficult 
for a government agency to keep up with the private sector in 
competing for the people in those high-value jobs.
    So I guess I would ask, what are your plans and goals to 
recruit and retain the talent that is going to be needed to 
implement and maintain the VA's many IT sectors?
    Mr. DelBene. I think a lot of it comes down to how do you 
define the organization and create an organization that is a 
modern, kind of state-of-the-art IT organization so that 
somebody looks at it as an opportunity. A college graduate in 
tech looks at it as a great place to start his or her career. 
How do you take somebody from the private sector and say, oh, 
my gosh, there is a set of skills that I can learn here that 
are valuable in the private sector, and by the way, energize 
them around the mission that they have today. And so we need to 
create an organization that is very state-of-the-art in terms 
of, you know, focused on vision and execution, agile 
development, and I think that will be an attractor of talent.
    Senator Manchin. I always thought that the prime spot for 
you all to recruit from is the military.
    Mr. DelBene. I think there is a huge opportunity there.
    Senator Manchin. Because, basically, people that have 
served are going to be very sympathetic and understanding the 
needs of veterans and there is a lot of people with high skills 
sets that can be brought in and be taught basically on these 
areas. I do not know what the VA is doing now in recruitment as 
far as active military that is going to be mustering out, if 
you will, if we are really going after that segment.
    Mr. DelBene. I do not know at this point in time. I could 
not agree with you more. If ever there were----
    Senator Manchin. It is a natural.
    Mr. DelBene. If there were a skill set that you could 
inculcate in people leaving the military that would be valuable 
in the private sector----
    Senator Manchin. Well, you are going to get people 
sympathetic to the military.
    Mr. DelBene. I am sorry?
    Senator Manchin. You would want to--you know, some of the 
people that do not serve--you know, we only have 1 percent of 
the population is basically in the professional military.
    Mr. DelBene. Right.
    Senator Manchin. But people that do not serve might not 
have the same desire or the same sympathy that we have, and 
empathy, for people that do serve, but people in the military 
should. And I do not know if we just--if that is a good 
recruitment or if we have been using that to the full extent.
    Mr. DelBene. I think there is, but I think there is more we 
can do there, and I would be excited to work on that.
    Senator Manchin. Well, I hope so. I hope so, sir. I look 
forward to it. The only thing I am saying is that monitoring as 
far as medical records, things of that sort, getting that 
integrated has been so challenging, and I am hoping that you 
all will be looking at that because, you know, for us to have 
time sensitive information when a person comes in, especially 
on opiates, the addiction of opiates that we have.
    I had a person one time tell me--I kept saying, you know, 
we have so much addiction in the military. It is just 
ridiculous. And, our veterans going to the Veterans 
Administration or the hospitals. So I asked this.
    A nurse one time says, well, if you politicians would not 
call all the time raising Cain about we will not give these 
veterans what they want, you know, because we used to 
basically--the veterans would report on the quality of care 
they are getting. If they did not get the type of drugs they 
wanted, they would report very bad, and it would make a 
hospital have a bad report.
    We took that off of the reporting. They cannot--dispensing 
of medication is not one of the areas where we are going to 
basically evaluate that hospital, do they give quality care, 
best of care, mediocre care, because it was always based around 
did you get the drugs you want.
    Mr. DelBene. Ah.
    Senator Manchin. But what happens is we do not have, we 
truly do not have, the records that are following that patient, 
a VA patient that might go from clinic to clinic to clinic, 
whether they are pill shopping or whatever. That is something 
that needs to really be looked into.
    Mr. DelBene. Well, if confirmed, Senator, I think that 
would be a great area to look into and figure out what does the 
data say and, you know, what do we hear from patients as well.
    Senator Manchin. Right. Well, you can talk to some of the 
people and some of the nurses----
    Mr. DelBene. Right.
    Senator Manchin [continuing]. That are in that, men and 
women who work in those departments, and it will just be 
unbelievable what they will tell you. We learned a lot.
    But we will be happy to work with you. We have a tremendous 
opiate addiction problem in West Virginia, and everyone is 
affected. So we want to make sure that we--I mean, this is an 
illness, has to be served. We cannot be dispensing what we 
should not be dispensing.
    But with that, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Moran [presiding]. Senator Manchin, thank you very 
much.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you, sir.
    Senator Moran. We will always try to treat you 
respectfully.
    Senator Manchin. Always do.
    Senator Moran. Mr. DelBene, Congress is often, constantly 
in fact, asking the VA for data as part of our oversight 
responsibilities. We are looking for information that, 
unfortunately, the VA too often responds to us that the data is 
not tracked in a way that we are asking for it, if at all. If 
confirmed, how would you incorporate enterprise data 
requirements into the modernization efforts to make certain 
that the VA can measure its inputs and outputs and hopefully 
demonstrate the positive impacts the programs are having on 
veterans?
    Mr. DelBene. I think that is a great question. It gets to 
me some of the things that we do in the private sector. You 
will look at a problem, and you will think that the data that 
is presented first is the answer to the problem. What is most 
important, I think, is to step back and say, what is the root 
question here and then what is data that will actually go to 
support what you want to understand, the true question behind 
the question, if you will.
    And so I think what is important is for us to get into a 
discussion where we say: ``What are we trying to measure here? 
What are the measures that would be best to actually--to come 
to the right conclusion on that particular system?''
    Sometimes there will be information that exists in the 
system; sometimes it will not. And so--and if it is not, we can 
kind of come around it from a different angle and say, well, is 
there information that is a good proxy for that?
    And--but I think what it amounts to is getting into that 
back-and-forth discussion with you as to what is the best way 
to answer the question that you are really looking to answer.
    Senator Moran. I think a goal of mine would be to get to 
the point in which there is not a standard reply that, we do 
not have data to answer your question. And if you would work 
with us, one, how we ask the question or find a different way 
to answer the question that we are asking, that would be 
useful.
    Mr. DelBene. I think that is a great characterization. If 
you do not have the data, the next question ought to be, well, 
let us step back and figure out what are you trying to answer, 
what question are you trying to answer and how can we answer 
it. Senator Moran. I like your answer. Thank you. Electronic 
health records. The modernization effort is so critical. How 
would you describe to me the CIO's role and how you intend, 
with the cooperation from the others at the VA who are 
responsible for electronic health records, to get us to the 
point we need to be?
    Mr. DelBene. Well, thanks for the question. I think part of 
this is I need to get--if confirmed, I would like to dig in and 
understand how the Secretary and the leadership are thinking 
about leading in this new world, with the new announcement in 
terms of the organizational structure. The direct 
responsibilities clearly are the infrastructure that the system 
builds on top of, is the responsibility of the OIT Department, 
and I certainly want to have excellence there. But I think 
there is also an opportunity for me to take the learnings that 
I have had from the private sector and figure out how do you 
use those to make sure you have success in the project overall, 
in collaboration with the leadership structure that he has put 
in place.
    And so I think I really need to get my feet on the ground 
and understand how do we want to run this, but I think the 
thing you can commit--that I would commit to is it is important 
to me to solve that, to make the EHR implementation a success, 
and I just need to get involved and figure out where I can help 
the most.
    Senator Moran. Again, I like your answer. Mr. DelBene, how 
did your nomination come about?
    Mr. DelBene. Well, I retired from Microsoft after 30 years 
and was thinking through what I wanted to do next in my life. 
Service was important to me. And so when the Secretary, who I 
knew from working together on Healthcare.gov, came to me and 
said, I would like you to take on this role, I did some soul 
searching. It felt like a role where I can truly help, truly 
help a group of people that deserve our help. They deserve our 
help in how they transition from active service and throughout 
their lives.
    I spent time talking with my family and understanding 
because this will be a sacrifice on us as an entire family, 
just the logistics of we are in Washington State and a lot of 
the work is here. And so we talked about it, and I think we 
concluded together this was something that was an opportunity 
that we--that I ought not to pass up and we as a family ought 
not to pass up.
    Senator Moran. Thank you. Thanks for reaching that 
conclusion. Mr. DelBene, I often ask our witnesses if there is 
anything they would like to add, something they wish to 
correct, something that was not asked of them, if there is 
something you would like to add to the record. Anything you 
would like to tell me?
    Mr. DelBene. No. I think it has been a great set of 
questions and discussion so far. I will say that I am 
passionate about the opportunity to serve. I go into it not 
thinking that tech has all the answers but, rather, my 
experiences can be useful here. I look forward to working with 
all of you to better serve veterans overall. I look forward to 
working with the organization that I will be joining and 
understanding it better, understanding the people involved.
    And then the final thing I would say is what I get 
passionate about is not just the opportunity to transform the 
VA into a world-class technology organization, but it can also 
be an example of how we do that for all of government. There--
it does not need to be a case where people say, we do this in 
the commercial sector or why can't we do this in government. We 
can do all this in government, too. And as systems become more 
and more a part of how we deliver care and services to our 
citizens, it becomes more and more important for us to have 
these world class capabilities in government to do so, and I 
think we can do that.
    Senator Moran. Thank you for that answer. Let me put it in 
my words and see if you are saying what I think you said, which 
is: ``There is no legitimate excuse to say we are government. 
We cannot do this with IT. They can only do that in business?''
    Mr. DelBene. I am not sure I would put it in the negative 
sense of there is no excuse. I think the opportunity is in 
front of us to use these systems and these capabilities to 
deliver world-class services to our citizenry and to create 
organizations where people are proud in what they are--that 
they are having this mission and delivering this to our 
citizens.
    Senator Moran. I will try it one more time in the positive.
    Mr. DelBene. Okay.
    Senator Moran. The answer that I heard you say, or the 
comment that I heard you make, was that ``we have every 
opportunity in the public sector to create a world-class IT 
system just as they have in the private sector.''
    Mr. DelBene. Very well said.
    Senator Moran. Thank you.
    Mr. DelBene. Absolutely.
    Senator Moran. You said it. I just wanted to make sure I 
understood it.
    Mr. DelBene. Thank you.
    Senator Moran. Thank you very much for your testimony, 
being with us today.
    I thank the committee members who participated today.
    The record of this hearing will remain open--this is 
different than usual--till 9 a.m. tomorrow. My assumption is--
and I have not had this conversation recently with the 
Chairman, but I think the intention is his desire to move this 
nomination quickly. So 9 a.m. tomorrow, the record will remain 
open. Please have any post-hearing questions in by then.
    And our Committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 4:02 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

                            A P P E N D I X

                        Nomination Material for

                            Kurt D. DelBene
     
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
  

                                  [all]