[Senate Hearing 117-604]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 117-604

                 GROWING JOBS AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY:
               2023 FARM BILL PERSPECTIVES FROM MICHIGAN

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,
                        NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             April 29, 2022

                               __________

                       Printed for the use of the
           Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry
           
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]           


                  Available on http://www.govinfo.gov/
                  
                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
50-072 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2024                    
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                   
                 
           COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY


                 DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan, Chairwoman
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont            JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
SHERROD BROWN, Ohio                  MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado          JONI ERNST, Iowa
KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
TINA SMITH, Minnesota                ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois          TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama
CORY BOOKER, New Jersey              CHARLES GRASSLEY, Iowa
BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico            JOHN THUNE, South Dakota
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             DEB FISCHER, Nebraska
                                     MIKE BRAUN, Indiana

               Joseph A. Shultz, Majority Staff Director
                    Jessica L. Williams, Chief Clerk
               Fitzhugh Elder IV, Minority Staff Director
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                        Tuesday, April 29, 2022

                                                                   Page

Hearing:

Growing Jobs and Economic Opportunity: 2023 Farm Bill 
  Perspectives from Michigan.....................................     1

                              ----------                              

                    STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS

Stabenow, Hon. Debbie, U.S. Senator from the State of Michigan...     3
Boozman, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from the State of Arkansas......     5

                               WITNESSES
                             Welcome Panel

Millenbah, Kelly, Ph.D., Interim Dean, College of Agriculture and 
  Natural Resources, Michigan State University, East Lansing, MI.     1

                                Panel I

McAvoy, Juliette King, Vice President of Sales and Marketing, 
  King Orchards, Central Lake, MI................................     7
Isley, Jake, Owner, Stewardship Farms, Blissfield, MI............     8
Kennedy, Ashley, Owner, Sheridan Dairy, Bad Axe, MI..............    10
Vear, Tom, Owner and Operator, Donckers and The Delft Bistro, 
  Marquette, MI..................................................    11
Knight, Phil, Ph.D., Executive Director, Food Bank Council of 
  Michigan, Lansing, MI..........................................    13
Florian, Rosie, Food Hub Manager, ValleyHUB Food Hub, Kalamazoo 
  Valley Community College, Kalamazoo, MI........................    14
Ewald, Stephen, Owner and Operator, Ewald Farms, Unionville, MI..    15
Chown, Glen, Executive Director, Grand Traverse Regional Land 
  Conservancy, Traverse City, MI.................................    16

                                Panel II

Bates, Brian, Owner, Bear Creek Organic Farm, Petoskey, MI.......    29
Martus, Karianne, Manager, Flint Farmers' Market, Flint, MI......    30
Sullivan, Joseph, DVM, Director of Pullet Operations, Production, 
  Herbruck's Poultry Ranch Inc., Saranac, MI.....................    32
Ball, Alexander, Owner, Old City Acres, Belleville, MI...........    33
Maxwell, Allyson, Co-Owner, Peter Maxwell Farms, Beaverton, MI...    35
Lyons, Rachel, Tribal Manager, Tribal Administration, Bay Mills 
  Indian Community, Brimley, MI..................................    36
Jacobs, Marisa, Senior Associate Grower, Grand Rapids, Square 
  Roots, Inc., Wyoming, MI.......................................    37
Woodke, Lisa, Sustainability Director, Star of the West Milling 
  Co., Frankenmuth, MI...........................................    38
                              ----------                              

                                APPENDIX

Prepared Statements:
    Millenbah, Kelly, Ph.D.......................................    50
    McAvoy, Juliette King........................................    58
    Isley, Jake..................................................    62
    Kennedy, Ashley..............................................    71
    Vear, Tom....................................................    78
    Knight, Phil, Ph.D...........................................    80
    Florian, Rosie...............................................    87
    Ewald, Stephen...............................................    93
    Chown, Glen..................................................    95
    Bates, Brian.................................................   101
    Martus, Karianne.............................................   108
    Sullivan, Joseph.............................................   110
    Ball, Alexander..............................................   113
    Maxwell, Allyson.............................................   117
    Lyons, Rachel................................................   123
    Jacobs, Marisa...............................................   129
    Woodke, Lisa.................................................   148

 
GROWING JOBS AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY: 2023 FARM BILL PERSPECTIVES FROM 
                                MICHIGAN

                              ----------                              


                         FRIDAY, APRIL 29, 2022

                                       U.S. Senate,
         Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., at the 
STEM Teaching and Learning Facility, Michigan State University, 
East Lansing, Michigan, Hon. Debbie Stabenow, Chairwoman of the 
Committee, presiding.
    Present or submitting a statement: Senators Stabenow and 
Boozman.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Good morning. I call to order the 
hearing of the U.S. Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, 
and Forestry. I first have to thank all of you for being here, 
and I particularly want to thank President Stanley and Dean 
Millenbah and everyone here at Michigan State University. Go 
Green.
    All right. Okay. We have got the program, Senator Boozman. 
This is good.
    As we kick things off I am going to turn it to Dr. Kelly 
Millenbah, who is the Interim Dean of the College of 
Agriculture and Natural Resources here at Michigan State 
University. She is also a professor in the Department of 
Fisheries and Wildlife. I appreciate you joining us to welcome 
us.

 STATEMENT OF KELLY MILLENBAH, Ph.D., INTERIM DEAN, COLLEGE OF 
 AGRICULTURE AND NATURAL RESOURCES, MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY, 
                        EAST LANSING, MI

    Dr. Millenbah. Chairwoman Stabenow, Ranking Member Boozman, 
invited guests, and witnesses here with us today, on behalf of 
Michigan State University I am honored to welcome all of you to 
the MSU campus.
    I wish to thank the Committee for the opportunity to host 
the first 2023 Farm Bill Hearing in this new MSU STEM Teaching 
and Learning Facility. This facility combines historical and 
leading-edge elements in a transformative space for Spartan 
students and educators.
    Our new building is built upon a 73-year-old Shaw Lane 
Power Plant, and is constructed of mass timber and the primary 
load-bearing support. Although decommissioned in 1975, the 
power plant has found a fitting new home. The building that 
once powered the campus is now empowering Spartans to innovate 
ways to learn and share knowledge about science, technology, 
engineering, and mathematics, or STEM, and that certainly 
includes the College of Agriculture and Natural Resources.
    There is perhaps no greater time to be involved in research 
pertaining to sustainable and nutritious food production and 
improving health and nutrition. We need solutions that will 
keep our food supply healthy, safe, and secure while also 
protecting our natural resources. Since the need is constant, 
the food and agriculture industries, especially in Michigan, 
the United States' most diverse agricultural State, with a 
reliable water source, provides great opportunities for 
economic prosperity, growth, and increased employment.
    Science-based solutions to crisis issues like climate 
change and environmental sustainability, including access to 
clean water and nutritious foods, means not only providing 
clean water and growing food but also understanding human 
behavior and the myriad challenges people face across our 
Nation and our planet.
    We need to find better ways to distribute and understand 
the importance of both. We also need to better communicate the 
economics of these challenges so that more people understand 
the vitality of food and agricultural sectors that feed the 
world.
    The MSU College of Agriculture and Natural Resources, 
AgBioResearch, and MSU Extension work collaboratively with 
commodity organizations to address the issues facing growers 
and producers throughout the State, providing solutions on 
everything from disease management to food processing.
    Agricultural resilience is at play here and every single 
day. We have recently created several new centers of excellence 
around food production and natural resource conservation, 
including the Detroit Partnership for Food, Learning, and 
Innovation, the MSU Center for PFAS Research, and the MSU 
Center for Regenerative Agriculture. These are just three 
examples of how MSU is responding to a changing world and 
addressing needs in real time.
    While Michigan's agricultural production has expanded, 
facilities, work force development, and nimble research dollars 
have not kept pace. Targeted Federal investments in work force 
development, facilities, and research can enhance Michigan's 
agricultural success, prepare us for future challenges, and 
help us to retain the top talent.
    We look forward to continuing our tradition as the pioneer 
land-grant university, educating future generations to meet 
growing demands and discovering and sharing advancements that 
will benefit our State, the Nation, and the world. Agriculture 
is America's oldest career, and today it is arguably one of the 
most complex, technically driven, knowledge-based industries in 
the world. We have come a long way but much remains to be done. 
MSU is positioned as we always have been to lead the change and 
meet the challenges for the future.
    Thank you so much for this opportunity to be with you and 
for your continued support.

    [The prepared statement of Dr. Millenbah can be found on 
page 50 in the appendix.]

STATEMENT OF HON. DEBBIE STABENOW, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE 
    OF MICHIGAN, CHAIRWOMAN, U.S. COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, 
                    NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you very much, and, of course, I 
am a little biased, with two degrees from Michigan State. I 
cannot think of a better way to start our farm bill hearing 
process.
    I want to also start by welcoming our MSU USDA team, and 
let us know where you are. You are from Farm Service Agency, 
State Executive Director, Dr. Tim Boring. Tim, where are you? 
Raise your hand. Tim, it is great to have you here.
    Natural Resources Conservation Service State 
Conservationist, Garry Lee. Garry, where are you? All right.
    Rural Development State Director Brandon Fewins. Where is 
Brandon? I am a little biased. Brandon was my Northern Michigan 
Regional Manager for 20 years, and I am excited to have him in 
this new position.
    Welcome to Garry McDowell, our Director of the Michigan 
Department of Agriculture and Rural Development. Garry, I saw 
you come in as well, so thank you so much.
    Again, thank you to the witnesses that are here.
    I know that many of our producers here today are anxious 
about getting into the field, but we are seeing an abnormally 
cold and wet planting season, and I appreciate your willingness 
to be here today and talk about the challenges you are facing 
and show how the farm bill can continue to provide important 
support.
    You know, when we began to plan the hearing it was an easy 
decision, as I said, to hold it at Michigan State University. 
The building we are sitting in is a prime example of the kind 
of innovation I encouraged in my Timber Innovation Act, which 
was included in the last farm bill, and it is the first mass 
timber building in Michigan showcasing technology that creates 
jobs while using a renewable building material that also stores 
carbon.
    My colleague and friend who is with me today, John Boozman, 
from Arkansas, knows something about timber as well. Over half 
the State of Arkansas is covered by forestland, and forest 
products are incredibly important, I know, to his State's 
economy as well. This is an important area that we are excited 
to work on together.
    Senator Boozman is the Republican leader on the Committee. 
He brings the important perspective of Arkansas farmers, 
ranchers, and forestland owners. He may be a Razorback but 
today he is an honorary Spartan, and I hope you will help me 
give him a big, warm welcome.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Senator Stabenow, so much.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. I am honored that he would wear the 
tie that I gave him today.
    Let me just say that having Senator Boozman here today and 
holding our next field hearing in Senator Boozman's home State 
is more than just symbolic for us. Farm bills happen only once 
every five years and demonstrate a tradition of bipartisanship 
that has become rare in today's Congress. Our most recent farm 
bill passed with the strongest bipartisan support ever. We want 
to do even better. This hearing represents a commitment to 
continue that bipartisanship and build an even stronger 
coalition of stakeholders for the 2023 Farm Bill.
    Many people are unaware of the broad impact the farm bill 
has on our Michigan bottom line. I have always said we do not 
have an economy unless somebody makes something and somebody 
grows something, and that is what we do in Michigan. 
Agriculture contributes one in four Michigan jobs, and only 
California grows more different kinds of crops than Michigan. I 
like the way the dean said it better. I usually joke, ``Who 
cares about California?'' That is a joke for the national press 
that are here. That is a joke.
    Look around the room and at our witnesses today, the farm 
bill impacts producers and so many different crops and 
commodities, forestland owners, thriving businesses. Whether 
you are a dairy farmer that worries about fair trade with our 
neighbors in Canada or expanding farmers' markets in 
communities across the State, the farm bill serves producers of 
all types, big and small, new and beginning, family farmers, 
veteran farmers, rural and urban. It helps small businesses 
thrive, meets important needs for rural communities on things 
like high-speed internet and health care facilities, and makes 
sure Americans put healthy food on the table, thanks to strong 
food and nutrition policies.
    The farm bill provides tools to protect our Great Lakes, 
ensuring we can keep our land and water clean for hunting and 
fishing and outdoor recreation, which is at the core of our 
Michigan way of life.
    We have seen unprecedented challenges since the last farm 
bill was passed in 2018. The pandemic exposed vulnerabilities 
in our farm and food economy, as we know. Farmers were 
whiplashed by low prices and breakdowns in processing, while 
Americans across the board saw empty shelves and skyrocketing 
prices. Just as our country has been recovering now 
economically, Putin's war in Ukraine is threatening the 
worldwide food supply.
    The good news is that our farmers have seen commodity 
prices go up, but that has been offset by rising costs of 
fertilizers and other essential inputs that they need to do 
their business. Our next farm bill must address the economic 
security of our farmers, our families, and our rural 
communities, by supporting a more resilient and sustainable 
food supply chain.
    We can do more to improve competition, expand opportunities 
for small, mid-sized, and local producers that grow things at 
home to prevent shortages and reduce cost spikes when a crisis 
occurs.
    We have to acknowledge that the climate crisis is real and 
that we are seeing it every day in Michigan. It worries me 
greatly that the Great Lakes are now warming faster than the 
oceans, and that Lake Superior is one of the top five fastest-
warming lakes in the world, which threatens cold-water fishing 
and a whole lot of other things.
    Fortunately, Michigan farmers are already stepping up to 
address the climate crisis, and we need to help them do more. 
We have seen the overwhelming popularity of voluntary 
conservation programs. In the Regional Conservation Partnership 
Program, which I created in the 2014 Farm Bill, for example, 
local leaders are leveraging scheduled dollars to expand 
conservation practices. Our leading researchers at Michigan 
State and beyond are collaborating with farmers to help them 
adapt to the severe changes in the weather.
    The most recent farm bills have been successful because of 
the ideas and feedback we get at hearings, just like this, 
where we can hear what is working, what is not working, and how 
we can meet new challenges facing our farmers, our families, 
and our rural communities.
    Thank you again to our witnesses and the many people who 
have taken time to submit their written testimony, and I am 
also so grateful for our staffs, both mine and Senator 
Boozman's, who have worked so hard to put this all together. As 
we begin our work on the 2023 Farm Bill I am committed to 
supporting all of our farmers and families, and creating new 
jobs, and ensuring that Michigan is represented on every page.
    Now I would like to turn to my friend and partner, Senator 
Boozman. Welcome.

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BOOZMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF 
                            ARKANSAS

    Senator Boozman. Well, thank you so much, and it is great 
to be with you all, and I appreciate the hospitality so much 
and making me so welcomed. I had the opportunity to walk from 
the hotel over and explore the campus this morning, and again, 
you all can be so, so very proud of what you have here. My 
staff gets very nervous when I am out wandering around by 
myself, but I made it.
    I needed to take the walk, though, because I think I 
probably gained five pounds. Senator Stabenow has inundated me 
with the local delicacies, which again, you all can be so, so 
very proud of. I have got my MSU tie on, and I am very proud of 
that. I can say that because this is not an SEC school so we do 
not have to deal with that.
    It is good to be with you, and again, congratulations, 
especially to this facility.
    Chairwoman Stabenow is a veteran of the farm bill process 
and I understand the hard work it takes to pass this 
legislation. In fact, she and then Chairman Pat Roberts were so 
effective that they ushered the current farm bill through the 
Senate with a record number of yes votes on the floor, which 
really is a great achievement. My goal is for us to do better 
than that on the next go-around, with you all's help.
    I look forward to working with her as we craft a bipartisan 
proposal that meets the needs of farmers, ranchers, forestland 
owners, rural communities, and other beneficiaries and 
participants in USDA's programs in Michigan, Arkansas, and 
every other State.
    As we kick off this process we are in an unprecedented time 
to write a farm bill. Just think about the issues that we are 
confronting that truly are daunting--a receding pandemic, a 
brutal war in the breadbasket of Europe, record-high inflation, 
record-high fertilizer and input costs, high crop prices, high 
food costs, labor shortages, drought, delayed planting, and 
transportation and supply chain bottlenecks.
    The pandemic and Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine 
have exposed the vulnerabilities of our domestic and 
international supply chains. This requires us to rethink the 
nature of our relationships across the globe, strengthening 
bonds with countries who share similar values and minimize 
reliance on those who violate norms. We have an opportunity in 
this farm bill to ensure we have in place the tools necessary 
to make American agriculture the trusted supplier for global 
markets. Farm bill programs and investments not only help 
American farmers continue to do what they have always done--
provide the most abundant, lowest-cost, and safest food supply 
in the world--but they also help the developing world. I have 
no doubt that our farmers and ranchers can meet the moment if 
given the right tools and the right conditions. The farm bill 
is your opportunity to do that.
    I look forward to hearing from two panels of witnesses the 
Chairwoman has invited to testify today. Senator Stabenow is 
truly a strong advocate for you and reminds all of her 
colleagues about the tremendous diversity of agriculture 
production in Michigan. That is an understatement.
    I am excited to learn about the diversity and want to hear 
about the needs of Michigan's farmers and rural communities. 
What is working for you in your operations? What is not? How 
can we make things easier for you to access the programs that 
we have created? How can USDA be a partner to help strengthen 
your communities? What are the things the Federal Government is 
doing that are helping you? How can we protect and bolster the 
vital farm safety net?
    Over the next year and a half I look forward to hearing 
from all of you who are touched by USDA--our farmers, large and 
small, organic and convention, our ranchers, our forestland 
owners, sportsmen and women, rural community leaders, and those 
assisted by our nutrition programs which are so very important. 
These perspectives are critically important to assure that we 
get this right.
    Again, I thank and congratulate Chairwoman Stabenow for 
kicking off the 2023 Farm Bill process. I am excited to hear 
from our witnesses. With that I yield back.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you so much, Senator Boozman.
    Because of the great diversity in Michigan we have invited 
a number of people to join us today, on two different panels. 
All of their voices, all of your voices are very important, so 
we appreciate so much your time being here.
    Let me go through the introductions. First Juliette King 
McAvoy is the Vice President of Sales and Marketing at King 
Orchards in Central Lake, Michigan, where she grows 250 acres 
of tart and sweet cherries and apples as well as many other 
fruits and vegetables. I was pleased to be with President Biden 
when we visited Juliette's operation last summer. It was really 
a great opportunity to showcase Michigan.
    Jack Isley owns and operates Stewardship Farms in 
Blissfield, Michigan, where he grows soybeans and corn. He is a 
member of the Michigan Soybean Association and has been 
recognized by several conservation organizations for his 
outstanding work promoting soil health and implementing a 
variety of innovative practices on his farm. Welcome.
    Ashley Kennedy owns and manages Sheridan Dairy, a third-
generation, 240-cow dairy near Bad Axe, with her husband Eric 
and two girls. Recently they added specialty Wagyu beef herd 
that they sell direct to consumer through Sheridan Meat & More, 
a farm market they established in 2021.
    Tom Vear owns and operates The Delft Bistro and Donckers 
Chocolatier in Marquette, Michigan. He is already our favorite 
witness because he has given us chocolates this morning. You 
know how to go right to it, Tom. This is fantastic. I have to 
tell you, I have been to the store many times and it is 
amazing.
    Senator Boozman. He knows the key to my heart.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Yes, exactly. It is an amazing store. 
It is an amazing operation. Tom also serves on the board of 
Northern Initiatives (NI), a USDA rural development re-lender 
and technical assistance provider for small businesses.
    Dr. Phil Knight is the Executive Director of the Food Bank 
Council of Michigan, which is located right here in Lansing. 
The council represents the seven food banks that serve 
Michiganders in all 83 counties through a network of almost 
3,000 community partners. Phil chairs Governor Whitmer's Food 
Security Council and hosts Food First Michigan on WJR radio in 
Detroit.
    Rosie Florian is the Food Hub Manager at the ValleyHUB Food 
Hub at Kalamazoo County Community College. Rosie has over two 
decades of food systems experience, serving previously as a 
sales and logistics coordinator at Cinzori Farms, a certified 
organic vegetable farm in Ceresco, and a as produce manager at 
the People's Food Coop of Kalamazoo. Welcome.
    Steve Ewald owns and operates Ewald Farms, a nearly 2,200-
acre certified organic commodity farm in Unionville, where he 
grows beans, corn, and wheat. Steve is also Chairman of the 
Organic Farmers of Michigan, a group of over 70 certified 
organic bean and grain producers to help market their crops.
    Glen Chown is the Executive Director of the Grand Traverse 
Regional Land Conservancy in Traverse City, a very, very active 
organization, so pleased to partner with. Among other projects, 
the Conservancy is one of the lead partners of the Regional 
Conservative Partnership Program (RCPP) Tribal Stream and 
Michigan Fruit Belt Partnership. Glen lives in a historic 
farmhouse on the Old Mission Peninsula where he grows Riesling 
grapes. Do you have any wine for us today? It would go well 
with the chocolates. Glen, you missed it. Okay. All right. Here 
we go.
    All right. I am going to turn it over to Ms. King.
    Welcome, and thank you so much for all your efforts.

STATEMENT OF JULIETTE KING McAVOY, VICE PRESIDENT OF SALES AND 
           MARKETING, KING ORCHARDS, CENTRAL LAKE, MI

    Ms. McAvoy. Good morning, Senators, and thank you so much 
for the introduction.
    We need the 2023 Farm Bill to take bold action to protect 
privately owned and family farm operations and our Nation's 
food security. The farm bill has many programs that create 
value at the producer level and increased sales opportunity to 
marketing and innovation. Market access programs and specialty 
crop block grants provide vital funding to support marketing 
initiatives with the goal of differentiating specialty crops 
and driving demand.
    The MAP-funded Food Export Midwest helped King Orchards 
connect with foreign buyers and establish a branded marketing 
campaign abroad. Cost-share programs like the Value-Added 
Producer Grant are important for rural job creation and 
retaining earnings on the farm and in the local community.
    Bonus procurements by the USDA were a lifeline for the tart 
cherry industry as we suffered market imbalances. Despite our 
industry efforts, imports have been rapidly and stealthily 
stealing market share within specialty crops and driving prices 
below what is sustainable. I have experienced this first-hand 
with tart cherry juice. Specialty crop producers ask the farm 
bill to help stop the erosion of our market share and price 
points. The Buy American provision with USDA-administered 
programs needs to be enforced and loopholes closed.
    Whether in school lunches or at the store, I believe 
consumers want to purchase USA-grown and support American 
farmers. However, lack of transparency on the label makes it 
nearly impossible to know where the products are grown, 
especially when importers are using the USDA organic 
certification as a marketing tool, betting on the consumer's 
confusion and the USDA's excellent reputation.
    Biggest ask that I am going to make today is for the 
Committee members to take bold action to mitigate climate 
change. Volatile spring weather is just one effect we are 
seeing on our farm, most recently causing back-to-back crop 
failures in cherries. The farm bill has the opportunity to help 
mitigate the consequences of the changing climate through not 
only adaptive and survival tactics but also proactive tactics 
to slow and possibly even reverse greenhouse gas emissions 
through carbon sequestration and regenerative agriculture.
    To adapt we need to fund research. The future of specialty 
crops in our region and beyond depend on our ability to adjust 
to the changing conditions, whether that is through breeding 
programs to select cultivars that are more drought-, frost-, 
and disease-resistant, or with more effective and safe 
chemistries to combat increased pressures of pests, bacteria, 
and fungus.
    MSU Extension has been an exceptional partner, but the 
tasks ahead are great and they need more resources. To survive, 
we need specialty crop insurance Senator Stabenow worked so 
diligently to provide. I cannot imagine operating without it at 
this point.
    To be proactive, we need the farm bill to usher in a 
transition to clean energy infrastructure and incentivizing 
conservation and sustainable practices. Agriculture is in the 
unique and empowering position to be a solution to the problem. 
Let's own it.
    Thank you for your time.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. McAvoy can be found on page 
58 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you so much, Juliette. I very 
much appreciate it.
    We will now turn to Jake Isley. Welcome.

STATEMENT OF JAKE ISLEY, OWNER, STEWARDSHIP FARMS, BLISSFIELD, 
                               MI

    Mr. Isley. Good morning, Chairwoman Stabenow, Ranking 
Member Boozman, and thank you for bringing the Committee to 
Michigan and allowing me to offer this testimony on behalf of 
the Michigan Soybean Association (MSA) and the soybean growers 
within the State.
    Soybean farmers rely on domestic and global markets as well 
as a steady supply of production inputs and a predictable 
regulatory environment for success. When those markets fail or 
when significant economic disruptions occur we rely on 
policymakers to ensure that a supportive farm safety net is in 
place.
    Soybeans experienced a significant market challenge during 
the height of the China trade war in 2018. Unfortunately, the 
farm safety nets provided through Agriculture Risk Coverage 
(ARC) and Price Loss Coverage (PLC) did little to help. In the 
next farm bill we ask for your help in improving the farm 
safety net programs for soybean growers and also to developing 
markets globally. We ask for your continued support for trade 
programs such as Market Access Program and the Foreign Market 
Development Program.
    Our risk management program on which soybean farmers and 
our lenders rely heavily is crop insurance. We must continue to 
have an affordable crop insurance program. With input costs 
higher in every area of my operation, I cannot afford to have 
the crop insurance premium subsidy reduced in this next farm 
bill.
    Farmers also rely on credit to plant and produce a crop 
every year. With land values and input prices on the rise we 
encourage the Committee to consider raising The Farm Service 
Agency (FSA) loan limits, which are not in line with the 
current market.
    I am the sixth generation to farm in Lenawee County, 
Michigan. Conservation-minded farming has allowed me and my 
family to farm on the same ground for 150 years. It is really 
in the last 10 to 15 that our family has deliberately worked to 
incorporate more conservation practices into our operation.
    We have found great value in two conservation programs, 
being CSP and Environmental Quality Improvement Program (EQIP). 
CSP, or the Conservation Stewardship Program, provided cost-
sharing for implementing strip till and subsurface nutrient 
application on our entire operation. EQIP has enabled us to 
plant cover crops on what is now our entire operation as well.
    As a result of these practices and others we are using less 
fuel and fewer inputs and have seen increased yields. We have 
better water filtration and retention because we have improved 
the structure and soil health of our farm using these programs.
    As you develop the next farm bill, we seek your help in 
providing adequate funding for these programs and other 
practices and programs; developing climate-smart provisions 
that focus on total on-farm carbon capture, not just 
additionality; emphasizing working land programs over 
retirement programs; and considering incentives that encourage 
adoption of precision agriculture technologies which have a 
wide range of benefits.
    I do want to take this moment to also thank you, Chairwoman 
Stabenow, for leading the push to continue to grow the bio-
based economy through programs like USDA's BioPreferred program 
which provides new markets for farm commodities and increases 
the use of renewable agricultural resources. We need your 
continued support to ensure growth of both bio-based and bio-
fuels, including the energy program of the farm bill.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to share testimony on 
behalf of the farm bill perspectives for Michigan.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Isley can be found on page 
62 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you so much.
    Now we have got Mrs. Ashley Kennedy with us.
    Ashley, welcome.

STATEMENT OF ASHLEY KENNEDY, OWNER, SHERIDAN DAIRY, BAD AXE, MI

    Mrs. Kennedy. Thank you. Chairwoman Stabenow, Ranking 
Member Boozman, thank you for the opportunity to testify. I am 
Ashley Kennedy. My husband, Eric, and I are third-generation 
farmers. We raise our two daughters, Calli and Adeline, on our 
farm along with 600 dairy and beef animals. We milk 240 cows 
with an automated milking system. Our farm has been a member of 
Michigan Milk Producers Association for 60 years. As a Michigan 
State University alumnus, I am excited to share my perspective 
on the campus that has shaped my career.
    Chairwoman Stabenow, dairy farmers are grateful for your 
strong leadership in reforming the dairy safety net in both the 
Bipartisan Budget Act of 2018 and the 2018 Farm Bill. The Dairy 
Margin Coverage Program (DMC) is a major improvement over its 
predecessor, and has been a safety net during hard times. It 
was essential to our success last year.
    There is always room for tweaks, such as the recent 
production history and feed formula adjustments. We are also 
pleased that like other producers dairy farmers now have a 
range of risk management options to meet their custom needs.
    Two years ago the COVID-19 pandemic took hold and impacted 
our entire country. While dairy farmers never stopped producing 
abundant and nutritious food, we still felt the consequences. 
The change made to the Class I mover and the government's heavy 
cheese purchases cost dairy farmers over $750 million in Class 
I skim revenue in 2020. Nobody could have anticipated COVID-19, 
but it highlighted the need to improve the Federal order 
system.
    The dairy industry is working hard to find consensus on a 
range of improvements to take to the USDA for consideration via 
a national order hearing. Michigan Milk Producers Association 
(MMPA) is actively participating in The National Milk Producers 
Federation's (NMPF) process. We know that to enact better 
policies we must work together to reach consensus. We look 
forward to working with this Committee as our efforts advance.
    I would like to highlight other areas of great significance 
to dairy. First, dairy farmers are environmental stewards who 
have long been champions of sustainability. We commend your 
efforts to increase funding for conservation programs which 
help dairy farmers scale up innovative, climate-smart 
practices.
    Second, trade is critical to our success so we support 
doubling funding for key trade promotion programs.
    Third, dairy farmers appreciate the enduring connection 
between agriculture and nutrition. Continued robust support for 
programs like the Supplemental Nutrition Assistant Program is 
vital to feeding families facing difficult circumstances and 
linking the food we produce to households across the country.
    We also strongly support and are proud to have helped 
inspire the Dairy Donation Program that you authored, 
Chairwoman Stabenow, to facilitate the donation of dairy 
products to food-insecure families.
    Finally, in recent years farmers have endured one difficult 
year after another. Stress in rural America needs to be 
discussed more, because it is a problem we can only solve by 
working together. I thank you for renewing the Farm and Ranch 
Stress Assistance Network which connects those in agriculture 
to stress assistance and support programs. Rural areas are 
desperately short of mental health resources, as I found out.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you. As a 
farmer who has used USDA beginner farmer loans three times I 
could not have come back to the family farm if not for the work 
you two do.
    I am happy to answer any questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mrs. Kennedy can be found on 
page 71 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Wonderful. Thank you very much.
    Now Mr. Tom Vear, welcome.

  STATEMENT OF TOM VEAR, OWNER AND OPERATOR, DONCKERS AND THE 
                  DELFT BISTRO, MARQUETTE, MI

    Mr. Vear. Thank you. Chairwoman Stabenow and Ranking Member 
Boozman, thank you for hearing my testimony today about 
Northern Initiatives and our business.
    My name is Tom Vear. My wife, Jennifer Ray, and I own and 
operate Donckers and The Delft Bistro in Marquette, Michigan. 
It is up in the UP up there.
    Food and agriculture has been a part of my life for quite 
some time. I graduated from DePaul University in Greencastle, 
Indiana, a small, rural farming community, and spent the next 
20 years trading corn and soybean futures at the Chicago Board 
of Trade. Then another 20 years ago, my wife and I changed 
chapters in our life and moved to Marquette, Michigan, a rural 
community where we were meant to be.
    In 2007, we bought Donckers, a 112-year-old family 
business, from Fred Donckers, the grandson of the founder. The 
building, a 1909 historic property in downtown Marquette, 
caught my eye. My love for historic renovation encouraged us to 
try our hand at restaurants and chocolate making. In 2015, we 
also purchased The Delft Theater, built in 1914. We converted 
the property to a more upscale lunch and dinner restaurant.
    Our choice to be in Marquette was influenced by our three 
children and the desire to be in a small, rural community. All 
three have worked in our business and graduated from the 
University of Michigan.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. You are a very courageous man.
    Mr. Vear. I have been on the board of Northern Initiatives 
for 12 years and both strongly believe in and enjoy the mission 
of this Community Development Financial Institution. NI's loan 
funding through Rural Development has helped to create many 
successful businesses as well as job creation, including our 
two businesses.
    Donckers and The Delft Bistro have both borrowed funds from 
NI to further develop our restaurant and our chocolate making. 
When we originally purchased Donckers, Fred, the 78-year-old 
grandson, agreed to stay on and teach us the fudge-making 
process, which was part of the business 100 years ago. We saw 
an opportunity in the chocolate business and for the past 12 
years have been growing that part.
    Just this past week, with the help of a revolving loan from 
NI, we purchased a $50,000 candy-coating machine. Last year, we 
made a half million of our signature salt caramels. This year 
we anticipate making five to seven times that amount this year. 
When getting products for our restaurants, we try our best to 
source locally. We work with local farmers for our eggs, 
greens, syrup, and meats. We have also been using the expertise 
of the Michigan State Extension, a resource to help us with our 
packaging requirements. In addition, we have been working hard 
on getting our businesses B-Corp certifications.
    Being a part of the growth and influence of Northern 
Initiatives has been a great pleasure. The board and staff 
members are fully committed to the mission of rural development 
as well as job creation.
    Over the past 10 years, Northern Initiatives has 
established itself as the Statewide Community Development 
Financial Institution (CDFI) lender that rural, female, and 
minority owners seek out for their business development. The 
organization is headquartered in Marquette with office 
locations throughout Michigan.
    Northern Initiatives provides loans and business services 
to entrepreneurs and small business owners who create jobs and 
help their communities thrive. Starting in 1994, as a program 
of Northern Michigan University's College of Business to help 
build rural economic resiliency in the face of declining 
resource extraction, NI serves 83 counties in Michigan and 
Northern Wisconsin presently.
    Since 1994, NI has provided 1,507 loans totaling over $88 
million and helped to create or retain nearly 7,000 jobs. 
Nearly 85 percent of those loans have been to small businesses 
in rural Michigan. Of the top 20 counties NI served in 2021, 16 
were rural. In 2021, 66 percent of Northern Initiative's loans 
were to startups, a third were to manufacturing businesses, a 
third were to women-owned businesses, and 72 percent were to 
small businesses located in low-income areas.
    USDA Funding sources have been instrumental in NI's ability 
to support small businesses, including those of Jenn and I. As 
our businesses have grown, we have needed additional capital. 
When we opened The Delft, Northern Initiatives utilized IRP 
resources to help us purchase our kitchen equipment. Rural 
Microentrepreneur Assistance Program (RMAP) funds have been 
utilized to finance many of our rural neighbors and to provide 
those businesses with the technical assistance to manage their 
cash-flow and market their goods and services.
    To date, NI has deployed 252 IRP and RMAP loans, totaling 
$18,814,845 and creating and retaining 1,283 jobs. The RMAP and 
IRP included in the farm bill are important sources of job 
creation for rural and low-income communities. They support 
small businesses and help communities thrive.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to submit a written 
statement.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Vear can be found on page 78 
in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you very much.
    Now we will turn to Dr. Phil Knight. Welcome.

STATEMENT OF PHIL KNIGHT, Ph.D., EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FOOD BANK 
                COUNCIL OF MICHIGAN, LANSING, MI

    Dr. Knight. Thank you. I come to you today not only 
representing my role as Executive Director for the Food Bank 
Council of Michigan but also my own personal experience with 
food insecurity. Hunger has many faces, and at one time it was 
my own.
    No one aspires to be food insecure but it happens, and 
through a variety of circumstances. For me it was a life upset. 
After 28 years of marriage I found myself with full custody of 
my two teenage boys and during a time of the Great Recession, 
despite my advanced degrees and years of job experience, I 
struggled to find a full-time job. At one point I was a cashier 
at a large retailer and I sucked at it. I worked as a 
substitute teacher throughout Michigan. Five-year-old PE 
teacher is quite the challenge. During that time my boys and I 
rolled quarters and dimes so we could eat.
    The counselor at school helped my boys get reduced price 
lunch and helped me apply for the Supplemental Nutrition 
Assistance Program (SNAP). The $97-a-month SNAP allotment was a 
lifesaver for us. We went straight to the store, where I sucked 
at the cash register, and spent the money on fresh fruits, 
vegetables, and meat, something that we could not afford until 
then. We supplemented our groceries with a nearby pantry that I 
learned later was supplied by our food banks, and suddenly 
hunger came off the table with it a lot of toxic stress.
    It was simultaneously a horrible time and a joyful time. I 
was ashamed yet relieved, embarrassed yet appreciative, and my 
emotions fluctuated between despair and hope. SNAP and the work 
of the food banks worked together to help take hunger off our 
table, and the impact of the food cannot be diminished. The 
power of the food is evidence and it helped stabilize our home 
through direct economic impact, and it empowered me by giving 
me hope to find my next success. After some time I found a job 
that led me to the one that I have now and have held for the 
last seven and a half years at the Food Bank Council.
    At my current work I continue to see the impact of food 
insecurity, and during the pandemic our food bank across the 
States increased their distribution by 47 percent to try to 
help meet the need. With additional investments by Congress, 
mainly the Federal nutrition programs in response to the 
pandemic, the food insecurity rates began to decrease. With 
those investments now ending and current rising costs of 
essentials like food and fuel impacting households, we are now 
again seeing the increase in need.
    As inflation impacts our residents and agricultural 
community it is critical that the next farm bill strengthen and 
invest in these programs. Doing so means investing in people 
and communities.
    I want to thank Senator Stabenow for her leadership in 
passing the bipartisan 2018 Farm Bill that directed the USDA to 
re-evaluate the Thrifty Food Plan. This is important because it 
helps determine the eligibility and the amount of benefits 
people are eligible for. This helps ensure the adequacy of 
benefits for the program, something that should be high 
priority for the next farm bill.
    The reality today is high cost of food and transportation 
means less food available to distribute to communities. Today 
our food banks are at a five-year low for USDA food. We ask 
that we could have investment in the Emergency Food Assistance 
Program along with SNAP. The farm bill is an opportunity to 
strengthen both these programs and to help us address equitable 
distribution as well as disparities in race and place.
    Let's change the conversation. Let's change it just a bit. 
The work of SNAP, Federal commodities and the food banks are 
not handouts or charity. They are investments, investments in 
people like me and in communities. Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Dr. Knight can be found on page 
80 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you so much, Phil. I really 
appreciate it.
    Ms. Rosie Florian, welcome.

 STATEMENT OF ROSIE FLORIAN, FOOD HUB MANAGER, VALLEYHUB FOOD 
     HUB, KALAMAZOO VALLEY COMMUNITY COLLEGE, KALAMAZOO, MI

    Ms. Florian. Chairwoman Stabenow and Ranking Member 
Boozman, thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony at 
today's hearing.
    I was born and raised in Van Buren County, where grape 
vineyards, orchards, and vegetable farming painted the 
landscape, and I have worked in Southwest Michigan in the food 
systems for over 20 years, in roles including food service, 
restaurant operations, retail grocery management, farmers 
market management, and organic vegetable farming. These 
experiences reinforced my strong connections to Southwest 
Michigan farms and food producers. They helped me understand 
their needs and obstacles, accessing markets, meeting food 
safety requirements, and simply getting all the work done each 
day before sunset.
    I now manage ValleyHUB Food Hub at Kalamazoo Valley 
Community College, which is an urban farm, food hub, and 
education center that supports local and regional food 
producers in Southwest Michigan through direct supply chain 
coordination and complementary education and training programs.
    We work toward the dual community goals of increasing 
viability for small and mid-sized farms and food producers and 
improving diets and health outcome in our community by 
promoting seasonal, local, plant-forward menus in health care, 
educational, and corporate cafeterias.
    The farm bill's Local Food Promotion Program funding has 
been instrumental in allowing ValleyHUB to support over 32-and-
growing regional farmers and value-added product producers and 
to connect consumers to fresh Michigan-grown produce in 
settings as diverse as hospitals, schools, groceries, 
restaurants, and early childcare facilities.
    Our programs build new skills, relationships, and market 
solutions for settings that have unique food preparation and 
serving requirements. Local and regional food systems and the 
locally embedded businesses and organizations that support them 
are a critical piece of our global food security and an engine 
of regional economic prosperity. We thank the Agriculture 
Committee for their continued strong advocacy for permanent 
Local Agriculture Market Program (LAMP) funding and the 
opportunity this year how the dollars dedicated to rural 
economic development have impacted ValleyHUB and our partners.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Florian can be found on page 
87 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you very much.
    Steve Ewald, welcome.

 STATEMENT OF STEPHEN EWALD, OWNER AND OPERATOR, EWALD FARMS, 
                         UNIONVILLE, MI

    Mr. Ewald. Good morning, Chairwoman Stabenow and Ranking 
Member Boozman. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before 
you today.
    As stated, I am Steve Ewald, the owner of Ewald Farms near 
Unionville in Tuscola County. It takes my wife and my son to 
make the things go around, the wheels turn there. We operate 
nearly two, 200 acres and grow a variety of crops--yellow corn, 
blue corn, winter wheat, soybeans, navy beans, black beans, 
great northern beans, small red beans, and dark red kidney 
beans.
    Organic farmers, in particular, utilize specialty cover 
crops to maintain and build soil quality. This is extremely 
important for organic growers because of the avoidance of 
synthetic and nutrient fertilizer inputs. We do not have the 
option of conventional nitrogen fertilizer such as urea or 
anhydrous ammonia to kickstart our corn and wheat crops. This 
can sometimes limit yield and/or quality levels of grain. 
Instead, we utilize manures and composts, which are in short 
supply.
    Thanks to Senator Stabenow's leadership, the 2018 Farm Bill 
included permanent, mandatory funding for organic research, 
which could encourage research on organically permitted 
products that would utilize atmospheric nitrogen.
    Crop insurance can also be an important risk management 
tool for producers, and I encourage the Committee to work to 
ensure this tool works for organic producers, and I appreciate 
your effort, Senator Stabenow, to expand this program to more 
types of production in farm bills of past.
    I am also very concerned with imports of fraudulent organic 
products that do not meet the same high standards as U.S. 
organic farmers and undercut the domestic organic growers like 
me. It is critical that USDA quickly implement the 2018 Farm 
Bill provisions to ensure organic importers have all the tools 
and enforcement actions necessary to combat organic fraud at 
ports and in domestic markets.
    In my closing, I will plead with the writers of the 2023 
Farm Bill to incorporate funding and language that will build a 
stronger base for all organic agriculture through better 
biological product development programs for nutrient 
availability, increased production of natural fertilizers, and 
better access to breeding lines for organic seed companies, 
continued and renewed support for organic research at 
universities such as MSU. Continued funding for dry bean 
research in variety, disease resistance and placement of this 
protein rich food into food programs of our Nation and beyond 
our borders.
    We still struggle with even medium-speed internet access, 
so the continued push for rural broadband is a must.
    We all live in a beautiful but somewhat fragile world and I 
believe all farmers want to produce the most while doing no 
harm. It would be wonderful for all to heal our world with some 
old and some new highly sustainable practices. Let farmers be 
farmers, we are good at it. It is in our blood. Thank you for 
your time.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Ewald can be found on page 
93 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you very much. I could not agree 
more.
    Glen Chown, welcome.

  STATEMENT OF GLEN CHOWN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GRAND TRAVERSE 
          REGIONAL LAND CONSERVANCY, TRAVERSE CITY, MI

    Mr. Chown. Thank you, and good morning, everybody. I would 
like to begin by thanking Senators Stabenow and Boozman for 
their leadership, and especially our Senator for championing 
the historic investments to protect our Great Lakes, address 
climate change impacts, and support Michigan's economy. There 
has always been bipartisan support for programs that protect 
our farms and our coveted freshwater resources, and we are so 
grateful that this vital bipartisan spirit continues under your 
leadership.
    I would like to share a brief summary of our Regional 
Conservation Partnership Project, also known as RCPP. In 2015, 
a unique collaboration of two tribal nations, Federal and State 
agencies, and nonprofit organizations called the Tribal Stream 
and Michigan Fruitbelt Collaborative came together to 
significantly increase the amount of agricultural land under 
permanent protection and improve water quality in one of the 
fastest-developing areas in the Great Lakes Basin.
    This work underpins two major and interdependent portions 
of Michigan's economy: agriculture and tourism. This 
collaboration is an example of what can be done right now to 
address food security and climate change. Continuing this work 
and ensuring we retain our agricultural lands and keep our 
farmers viable hinges on a strong farm bill conservation title.
    Programs such as the Agricultural Conservation Easement 
Program (ACEP) are a win for all Americans, keeping working 
lands in production now and into the future. That need has 
always been important, but today the risk of losing our ability 
to grow food and fiber here at home are even more pressing with 
the rise of global food security concerns.
    The original conservation partnership program provides the 
``secret sauce'' to address these challenges head-on. RCPP 
enables innovative, public-private partnerships to fully 
utilize and leverage the NRCS programs. Even though ACEP and 
RCPP are critical tools, the demand for these programs far 
exceeds the funding.
    We are aware of numerous projects in several States that 
could have conserved more than 130,000 acres of working lands 
while leveraging at least $80 million in matching funds. That 
is just a snapshot of what is at risk without robust funding 
for these programs.
    There are opportunities for the 2023 Farm Bill to improve 
programs so that they can even be more effective. I outline 
specific suggestions for improvement in my full written 
testimony.
    Thank you, Senators, for taking the time to hear from 
Northern Michigan. We are thankful for your commitment to 
strengthening the 2023 Farm Bill conservation programs that 
provide benefits to all Americans.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Chown can be found on page 
95 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you very much.
    We will now turn to questions. I will begin, and then 
Senator Boozman, and we will each do two rounds to make sure we 
have an opportunity to ask each of you a question.
    First of all, Ms. King McAvoy, welcome again. In your 
testimony you talked about the climate change issues that you 
are experiencing on the farm, and we know that the increased 
severity of weather really is making your job even harder. Can 
you elaborate on what you see and how tools like crop insurance 
can help manage the increased risk, and are there any changes 
that you would suggest, particularly to specialty crop 
producers or diversified farmers?
    Ms. McAvoy. Thanks, Senator. I already mentioned the 
volatile spring weather that has resulted in crop loss in the 
last two years, back-to-back crop loss in tart cherries and 
sweet cherries. This is the fourth time we have experienced a 
crop loss in the last 19 years. The frequency of the spring 
frost is increasing. In addition, we are seeing less frequent 
but more severe rain events. Those are less nourishing to the 
plants and trees and causes erosion and flooding. There is 
increased humidity, which creates more fungus and bacteria 
problems, and increased pest pressure.
    I often describe our situation on my farm as the canary in 
the mine. We are in the northern cusp of the growing region in 
Michigan, and because we are tree fruit growers we are that 
much more vulnerable to climate change. With tree fruit, the 
lifespan of an orchard is typically 30 to 40 years, so it is 
very long-term investments and we cannot change and restart 
each year like many crops can.
    The physiological requirement of pollination is also 
another vulnerability. The process of bloom pollination and the 
survival to maturity is incredibly fragile and precise, so any 
disruption to that process, like a frost, it disrupts the 
process and you lose your crop for the entire year.
    Crop insurance absolutely helps us manage this risk, and 
like mentioned, we have increased frequency of crop loss, and I 
cannot imagine trying to survive without it. There are not many 
business models that can withstand the kind of volatility that 
we are experiencing. It is the only way that I am confident 
enough to continue planting orchards that are long-term 
investments. We do not know what the climate is going to look 
like in 30 years, but that is how far out I am planning right 
now.
    I think that we could improve the crop insurance by having 
provisions that benefit producers that are doing risk 
management practices, like frost protection and irrigation, but 
I also think that we could make it easier for very diversified 
farms like King Orchards, where we have many crops that do not 
have specific insurance plans.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you very much. That is important 
for us to look at.
    Ms. Florian, your testimony mentions using various grants 
under the Local Agriculture Market Program to promote local 
food markets and products. Could you talk a little bit more 
about how you have used the local food promotion program or 
Value-Added Producer Grants and what impact do you see in terms 
of the community, of having access to those tools?
    Ms. Florian. Yes. We were able to hire a couple of key 
positions with those grants from Local Food Promotion Program. 
Those positions stabilized our work. One prioritizes 
institutional customer needs, so the food service relationships 
in cafeterias of all sizes, developing the products they need. 
Also that funding went to purchase equipment which allowed us 
to scale to the need of those cafeterias and food service 
directors' needs.
    We built capacity, we scaled our operation, and another 
position that is new this year also works with the food systems 
on education. The different partners in the agriculture and 
farming world, as well as the institutional food service labor 
force, basically.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thanks very much.
    Mr. Isley, I wanted to talk about bio-based products. As 
you know, I am a huge supporter of both biofuels and bio-based 
products that we can do a whole range of manufacturing. I am 
pleased that we are seeing more E15 in the marketplace, so with 
the President's decision it is going to help bring down some of 
the sticker shock that is ongoing now at the pump, but we have 
a lot more to do.
    When we talk about bio-based products as a market for corn 
and soybean farmers, while creating sustaining and doable 
consumer products, could you talk a little bit more about why 
those markets for bio-based products, both biofuels and bio-
based chemicals are important to our Michigan farmers, and what 
value do farm bill programs aimed at bio-based manufacturing 
really do to help you on the farm?
    Mr. Isley. Yes. Thank you very much, and I do appreciate, 
Madam Chairwoman, your support of the biofuel program as well. 
I think as we think about bio-based products and the 
opportunity that they have, really within the farm bill, is I 
am excited that there are a lot of bio-based products today 
already. You know, there are thousands of products out there, 
from cleaners and asphalt sealers and things that we are able 
to use.
    I think as we look forward toward continuing to promote 
bio-based products it really allows us to continue to produce 
products from things that were produced within our States and 
within our country. We are able to do that by being able to 
replace what would historically be petroleum-based products 
with renewable-based products that we can get from things like 
corn and soybeans.
    I think as we continue to look toward the future it allows 
a lot of those products that are produced through biological 
means or are bio-based, it really makes that overall market 
more sustainable. Then as a grower it continues to expand the 
market where our products can be used within those 
manufacturing processes, and puts those products in the product 
that is produced, at the end of the day.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you. I have to say, one of the 
things I find actually fun to talk about with folks is the bio-
based products, including automobiles. I mean, every Ford 
product is made with Lear and it soy-based. It is bio-based 
foam, so if you get hungry you could eat it. It is sustainable. 
I mean, there are so many things that are corn-based, bio-
based, as well as, I said, the E15 expansion now in biofuels, 
which is important.
    Mrs. Kennedy, I was happy to help improve the Dairy Margin 
Coverage Program, as you know, as we were leading up to the 
2018 Farm Bill and to make sure our dairy farmers also have 
access to crop insurance, like other farmers. I am glad to year 
the DMC Program has worked for your operation. How have the 
expanded crop insurance options really worked for you, and do 
you see ways we should build on that in the next farm bill?
    Mrs. Kennedy. Thank you for that question. In my experience 
we started with the MPP program and then it became DMC, and 
when we looked at it, you know, MPP did not really seem like it 
would work for us, and so we decided to go other routes. We 
tried Livestock Gross Margin Program. We tried DRP. I think 
they are excellent products for different farms. The thing is, 
all of these programs fit a different purpose too.
    DMC is that safety net. It is for true emergencies, margin 
issues, all different sorts of things like that. It is 
comparable to ARC and PLC for traditional agricultural 
products, for corn and soybeans. Whereas the DRP is more like 
crop insurance. You can truly tailor it to what you need and 
want as a farm. Livestock Gross Margin is sort of like that 
too.
    I think all of these programs serve a different purpose, 
you know, depending on your farm size, depending on your 
philosophy, all of those things. To me they truly do fit for 
different farmers. DMC works the best for us. We feel like it 
is the most value for what we need.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you very much. I am going to 
turn to Senator Boozman for some questions.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Isley, you 
mentioned participation in the ARC program, Agricultural Risk 
Coverage and Price Loss Coverage program, PLC. The 2018 Farm 
Bill allowed producers to make annual elections, 2021 to 2023. 
What is your decisionmaking in regard to that? You have got 
decisionmaking tools. What do we need to do to improve that?
    Mr. Isley. Yes, thank you very much, Senator Boozman, for 
that question. As we think about making the decision between 
ARC and the PLC program, that decision is not easy because we 
are still speculating on what is going to happen in the future 
for both of those programs.
    I have utilized the tools in the past to be able to help 
make that decision, and the tools that are available out there 
help give guidance. Within those you are still speculating. I 
mean, both of those programs are a safety net. I do not sign up 
for those programs with hopes of having to use them. I mean, I 
want that to simply be if something goes wrong then there is 
something there for me to continue to rely on.
    I have used the tools in the past. I have used the 
spreadsheets put out by FSA or other universities, to be able 
to say, hey, this is what that decision is, and that has been 
the biggest driver in understanding what my risk is as a 
producer and then how can I best cover that risk through either 
of those programs to make that decision.
    Senator Boozman. Very good.
    Something that has been really important for all of us 
throughout the county but plays such a significant role 
connecting producers and consumers to information is the 
cooperative extension programs. Whoever would like to jump in, 
but tell us about your experience working with cooperative 
extension programs, the land-grand universities, in addition to 
increased funding, which is always an ask. Tell us how we can 
improve the program, you know, maybe some areas. These programs 
have been in place for a long time and done tremendous good 
throughout the country. Any particular areas that perhaps we 
might could improve?
    Mrs. Kennedy. This is a wonderful question, so thank you 
for that. I actually just finished doing my FINAN with one of 
my local business extension agents. It is her job to take all 
of our financial information and put it into really easy terms 
so that we can make business decisions. As a small, beginning 
farmer we do not have the money to pay an accountant to do 
something like that, because that is a pretty expensive bill.
    Corey Clark, Dr. Corey Clark--she is a doctor now, she just 
got her doctorate--she is amazing. She is my person that I rely 
on for financial advice and really getting in the nitty-gritty 
of our finances on our farm.
    I think looking at more of that business end could be 
really, really valuable as agriculture becomes more diverse, as 
there are lots and lots of new farmers, you know, urban 
agriculture, all different kinds of things, bringing in 
conservation and climate change efforts as a source of income 
that is probably coming in the future. I think that is going to 
be a really important end of it.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. Anybody else?
    Ms. McAvoy. We work very closely with the MSU Extension. 
There is a wonderful research station in Northwest Michigan 
that does excellent work. It is so important right now. The 
number of issues we are facing seem to be multiplying every 
year, between new pests, new diseases. All this research takes 
so much time that they need more resources, not just funding 
for the researchers themselves but for the plot fees for the 
infrastructure for the greenhouses. We are constantly looking 
for better ways to combat these issues, and MSU Extension is 
our first resource that we go to.
    Senator Boozman. Yes.
    Dr. Knight. I would say from a Food Bank Council side, 
during a time of crisis, I guess a friend is described as 
someone who walks in when the rest of the world walks out, and 
Michigan State University Extension and the Food Bank of 
Eastern Michigan during the Flint water crisis worked hand in 
glove to meet the need there, both in regard to pure water and 
nutrition that would help with the children who had been 
exposed to lead.
    I just have to say that Kara Ross, the CEO for Food Bank of 
Eastern Michigan, is here with us today as well, and it was an 
extraordinary thing to see how they worked together.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Chown. Briefly, the average age of a farmer in Michigan 
is something, I think, in the low 60's.
    Senator Boozman. I think that is probably right.
    Mr. Chown. We are about to see a massive transfer of land, 
and that is going to have enormous implications. Extension 
gives farmers resources they can turn to for planting, for 
technical assistance, and on the other end we are seeing a lot 
of young farmers who want to farm but there are huge barriers--
the financing, of course the technical knowledge, and 
everything else.
    This is a time where we need a strong extension more than 
ever, and I think hats off to Michigan State University, the 
first land-grant college in the country. It is a fantastic 
program. Strengthening it to meet all of these demands, the 
adaptation to climate change, et cetera, is going to be more 
relevant than ever.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. I am going to yield back to the 
Chairwoman.
    You mentioned broadband earlier, and I think that is good 
story that we can tell. We have had all of this tragedy as a 
result of the pandemic, but that has really identified, I 
think, a great help to rural America, particularly in 
telemedicine, tele-education, tele-commuting, all of those 
things. I am very active in that space. The Chairwoman is very 
active in that space also, in rural broadband.
    The good news is we have got a lot of money in the 
pipeline, and it is going to take a while to build this out. It 
is a very doable thing and it something I appreciate you all 
bringing up, to keep our feet to the first.
    We have got all these problems going on all over the world 
and domestically. On the other hand, this is one that we can 
solve. Much of the technology that we depend on, whether it is 
climate or just being efficient on the farm, it is dependent on 
having that ability.
    I just want to reassure you that we really are working 
very, very hard on it, and I think it is going to help us a 
great deal as we protect rural America going forward in the 
future.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Well said. I could not agree more, in 
so many ways.
    I am going to turn, Mr. Vear, to you, and that actually 
reminds me that up in the Upper Peninsula, with Northern 
Michigan University, one of our early leaders on high-speed 
internet and broadband access across the UP, I know getting 
awards way before we were even talking about disconnecting the 
15 counties and the schools and the hospitals and so on in the 
UP. I know how important all of that is.
    You mentioned over 1,000 jobs in Northern Michigan, the UP, 
have been created thanks to the Northern Initiative's 
partnership with USDA Rural Development. I wonder if you could 
talk a little bit more about that program and how that has 
allowed you to hire new employees and expand your businesses?
    Mr. Vear. Thank you, Senator Stabenow. Northern Initiative 
has been very instrumental in job creation throughout rural 
communities, especially in the UP. It has been around for 25 
years. The programs that they provide are rural development 
lending, and there is nothing more important than creating 
jobs, and people who have not had jobs know that particular 
thing.
    One thing Northern Initiatives does very well is lend funds 
to startup businesses that could not otherwise get funding. 
They have minority businesses they lend to often. They helped 
my business itself by lending funds for machines that I 
actually had hired more employees for. That is part of my 
chocolate business. They also do a lot of education with their 
lending. They are very good at educating their customers about 
financials, about business sense and whatever else they might 
need.
    We have hired quite a few employees. I think through 
Donckers and Delft we have probably had upwards of 800 
employees over the last 15 years. One of them, Marisa, is 
sitting out right now. She is on the next panel. Job creation 
is by far the No. 1 thing in rural communities that Northern 
Initiatives does very, very well.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Yes, I would agree.
    Dr. Knight, you talked in your testimony--I appreciate you 
sharing your own personal experience as well as now your 
leaderships at the food banks--you talked about the importance 
of the update that we did on the Thrifty Food Plan evaluation 
to better reflect current prices and consumer eating habits. I 
think it had not been updated since the 1960's. It was 
incredible that we were operating under different costs, 
different ways of cooking and providing food and access and so 
on. We finally did a long-overdue update.
    What has been the impact, though, of more accurately being 
able to reflect costs and the ways we operate on foods. What 
has been the impact for families in Michigan who are receiving 
food assistance? Then I would also just ask you to speak on, 
what is the biggest misconception--you spoke a little bit about 
it, but the biggest misconception about SNAP and other 
nutrition assistance programs?
    Dr. Knight. Great question. I think, though, in regard to 
the Thrifty Food Plan the impact is that people have more 
resources when they have more month than they do money. This 
helps take those tradeoffs off the table. For me, when we went 
through this and SNAP and the food banks came alongside of us, 
it took the toxic stress of worrying about rent or utilities or 
whatever else that you did not have enough to pay for. When you 
improved the Thrifty Food Plan it just gave more resources to 
reduce people's toxic stress, and I think that is probably the 
biggest invest improvement that we have seen and experienced.
    I would also say that because your staff is so great, that 
it inspired me to think, well, if we could do this for the 
Thrifty Food Plan why do we not just take on the Federal 
poverty measure? Let's just update that too while we are at it, 
and that would certainly address a lot of need.
    In regard to misconceptions, I think that I would say that 
there are two. One would be me. I think when we think about 
SNAP and who is utilizing benefits you do not normally think of 
a middle-aged, adult, white man. You know, it is not an easy 
story to tell, for anyone, and I think that every face of 
hunger is different and it has a different story behind it as 
to why. It is about people who need help for a little while, 
and it is about people who need help maybe for a little while 
longer. I think that says more about us as a country and a 
culture, how we come alongside of them, than it ever says about 
them personally.
    I think to the other misconception is that SNAP is really 
an economic force, right alongside The Emergency Food 
Assistance Program (TEFAP). I mean, for every dollar spent in 
SNAP it generates $1.80 in economic activity, and the same can 
be said about TEFAP investment, you know, for our farmers, and 
we think that solving food insecurity, and it starts in the 
field. A strong farm bill means a strong America. I think that 
these are economic drivers.
    I just would end by saying that it is our firm believe, and 
I think it is yours as well, that hunger is not bigger than we 
are, it not better than we are, and it is not beyond us to 
solve. We can do it.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you. Thank you very, very much, 
and I agree.
    Mr. Ewald, you first started out growing conventional crops 
but made the decision early on to transition to organic. Given 
the higher input and management costs of growing organically, 
why did you make the choice to grow organic beans and grain, 
and what changes--you mentioned some, in the farm bill, but 
would you want to expand at all on the tools that organic 
farmers need for us to address?
    Mr. Ewald. Well, thank you for the question. I jumped into 
the transition to organic in 1999, so we have been going for 23 
years now, I guess. In 1999, we were working with some 
different industries and they were having their own problems 
paying bills, so that meant I was having trouble paying bills. 
We had to find a way to be more efficient. We are a small farm. 
I farmed with my father at that time, about 400 to 900 acres 
from my late teen years through 1999.
    You can imagine a small amount of acres, making a very 
small amount per acre, you have to find a different way if you 
want to exist, unless you want to go find an off-farm job.
    That is what I did. I started looking, and there seemed to 
be room in the organic corn markets, especially, and some 
soybean markets. If you look at historic yield or prices in 
those times, we were taking a lot of healthy peas and corn, and 
when you start hearing of a $5 opportunity to sell organic corn 
it makes you think. Soybeans was the same thing. At that time 
there was transitional markets, but even in those first three 
years of transition to organic you could tap into a little bit 
higher profit.
    At the time our chemicals were not working that well 
anyway. We were already hiring labor to help cleanup fields and 
dry beans, that kind of thing, so it was sort of a no-brainer. 
If we were going to hire them, we might as well try to figure 
out a way to get more out of them, and that is what the organic 
market did for me.
    Something that is becoming a problem, I think, as more 
people go organic is you are starting to see the shortfall of 
litters of poultry manures, manures that are available for 
widespread use. We have got to haul longer distances. It is 
more expensive. Like I said, we cannot just put regular 
nitrogens on. There are companies that make certain types of 
fertilizers but they are usually out of a plant-based product, 
and a lot of times they are organic plant-based.
    They are expensive to begin with and you cannot afford to 
use them in the amounts it would take to grow, say, a corn 
crop. If you needed to put 200 pounds of that on it would 
probably cost you $900 an acre, and you just cannot do that 
that way. We have to look for manures and cover crops that 
might add nitrogen to the soil.
    A couple of things that would make it easier if people were 
looking to transition today. Remember, from a conventional 
standpoint you are going from conventional fertilizers and 
chemical weed control. Now, in year one, in transition, you are 
going to stop all of that. No more spoon-feeding the crop. You 
cannot call the neighbor fertilizer dealer and have them put 
your fertilizer needs on for the year.
    One, two, and three years you are probably going to 
experience somewhat of a yield decline compared to what you 
would have maybe grown conventionally. We think that changes at 
about year four, and the biological activity seems to kick in 
and things start working better, and then you are in pretty 
good shape at that point.
    In that time you have got a lot of costs. If a person is 
especially young or new to the transition, some banking would 
help, maybe with some softer terms on repayment in those 
transition years--no bailouts, no gifts, nothing like that, but 
maybe a softer repayment schedule, until you are certified 
organic. It is possible, with the right rotation, to become 
certified organic in year three if you plan for that. Easier 
access to bin facility loans, because now all of a sudden you 
do not just take your corn to the elevator and unload it. You 
have got to have somewhere at home to store it and dry it, so 
operating loans, that kind of thing. Better communication, 
service centers, that type of thing, so people know what is out 
there and available.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Great. Thank you very much. Finally, 
Mr. Chown, as you know, Michigan is one of the most 
agriculturally diverse growing areas in the country. We have 
been talking about that, and our farmers are critical partners 
in ensuring our continued productivity.
    In your experience working with farmers how do our farm 
bill conservation programs help them and help the farmers who 
want to protect their soil and water while becoming more 
resilient in the face of that kind of change? You talked about 
that a bit, but could you talk a little bit more about that?
    Mr. Chown. Sure. That is a great question, Senator. For 
starters, the most important thing from where I come from in 
Northwest Michigan, in the fruit belt, which is a globally 
unique agricultural area but it is also increasingly threatened 
by development, because the same lands that are great for 
growing cherries have the best views of the lake and are under 
tremendous pressure. We need to make sure that our prime 
farmland and their valuable soils are protected, permanently.
    One of the best ways, obviously, to do that is through the 
NRCS Conservation Easement Programs, and your leadership in 
supporting that through the RCPP, through the ALE programs has 
been instrumental. We know that all farmers care deeply about 
their land. We have heard passionate testimony today. They want 
to do what is best. They are the first stewards.
    Programs that incentivize the adoption of best practices, 
such as the Environmental Quality Improvement Program (EQIP), 
the Conservation Preserve Program (CRP), the Conservation 
Stewardship Program (CSP), they are all critical, particularly 
in a rapidly changing world where we have got to adapt quickly.
    We know we need to ramp up these programs in the face of 
climate change. We faced a crisis during the Dust Bowl, as a 
Nation. Remember that? We responded dramatically. Call me an 
optimist but I think we can do it again, with the kind of 
leadership that we have today.
    More cost-shared dollars will be crucial, and I commend the 
NRCS for being a great partner in providing that technical 
assistance to growers interested in accessing these programs, 
along with our conservation district and our extension 
partners.
    The good news in our area is that these partnerships that 
will be necessary to achieve greater resiliency are strong, and 
we are ready for the challenge. Given the urgency of this issue 
and the opportunity for agriculture to be a huge part of the 
solution, in a more resilient future, in a more sustainable 
future, we are grateful for your leadership for advocating for 
these in the program.
    I want to point out that Growing Climate Solutions bill, 
passed by 98-2 in the Senate. How about a round of applause? 
When does that happen?
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Well, thank you so much, and we are 
trying to get it through the House. Senator Boozman was a 
wonderful partner on that, so we are going to get that done.
    Senator Boozman for any questions.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Madam Chair, and Mrs. Kennedy, 
I am interested to hear more about how you go about selecting 
with the dairy margin coverage. There are so many types of 
coverage to choose from. Do you do that the same every year? 
How does that work in your particular program?
    Mrs. Kennedy. That is a wonderful question. We look at the 
futures and see where we think the next year might be. It was 
much easier before COVID. Now it is a little more challenging 
and everybody is a little gun-shy about what other pandemic or 
other wrench might get thrown in there.
    You know, we work with our financial people, so Dr. Corey 
Clark and a few other people. We look at what we think might 
happen and then we sit down and we say what is the best value 
for our money, what works the best, what do we think, 
management-wise, we might do in the next year?
    Yes, we are always looking at everything. We are running 
scenarios and deciding what we think might be the most 
important thing to protect against, and then that is our plan 
for the next year.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. This question is for Mr. Isley 
and Ms. McAvoy. In your written testimony you advocate for 
raising the FSA farm loan limits. What do you believe would be 
an appropriate level for both direct and guaranteed farm loan 
limits? You want to raise them. What exactly do you want to do?
    Ms. McAvoy. Well, as my colleague at the end of the table 
mentioned, I am competing against lots of developers for that 
lake-view land, so the $600,000 cap would be exhausted in a 
very small operation in Northern Michigan. I do not have a 
specific number in mind, but I could see $1.5 million being a 
necessary amount to get started in a fruit-growing region like 
mine.
    Senator Boozman. Okay. Mr. Isley?
    Mr. Isley. Thank you for the question and I appreciate you 
bringing it up from the written testimony. One of the things 
that we face, I am not facing competitors in the marketplace 
that are looking to buy a view of the lake, but what I am 
facing is increased pressure from larger organizations or 
people outside of agriculture that are coming in and they are 
buying up land as an investment opportunity. I attempted to 
participate, or I went through the process to participate in a 
young farmer loan program, and I was looking at parcel that was 
going to exceed the loan limit, to be able to purchase that 
land, and I had to go and get financing elsewhere.
    I think as far as a term of what would be appropriate for 
the max amount to be offered should be specific to the ever-
changing market in terms of being able to purchase prime real 
estate. As a beginning farmer, being able to start a land base 
is definitely something that is needed in a lot of cases.
    I think as we look at being able to evaluate what that land 
is and what that value is, and being able to have some 
parameters around that, so people just say, ``Hey, here is the 
maximum,'' we need to be able to look at here is the maximum 
but here is what we can do from a per-acre standpoint, given 
what the current market conditions are, would be more a line 
that could fluctuate up and down as we see ever-increasing 
pricing from an agricultural needs standpoint.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. This is for anybody that wants 
to jump in, but several of you mentioned in your testimony that 
you participated in farm bill conservation programs like EQIP. 
Tell me about your experience, how that was, if was easy to 
jump in. Then also what do we need to do to change? Is there 
anything that we need to improve regarding those programs? It 
does not matter if we are in Arkansas or Michigan, they are 
very popular, they are undersubscribed. We understand that part 
of it, but apart from that, are there any other changes that we 
need to make?
    Mrs. Kennedy. I actually attempted to use EQIP a few years 
ago and had to pull my application because my project was quite 
large, looking to build manure storage. The backlog in our area 
for engineering projects is extremely long, and we knew that we 
would not be able to get it done in the amount of time that was 
allotted, which was really unfortunate. We do plan to reapply.
    From my perspective, every time we went in to work on this 
project the engineer that we worked with before was gone. 
Either they were promoted or they left. Then every person said, 
``Well now here are my requirements. I do not need what the 
other people have. I need this,'' or ``I need that.'' It was a 
constant rotation of trying to do that.
    Then you finally get plans and it is winter, and so you 
cannot do it, so then it gets pushed to the next year. A manure 
pit is an extremely big project, and so you cannot just get the 
plans in winter and then say, ``Hey, when the weather gets nice 
we are going to rock and roll on this, and we will have it done 
by June.''
    From my perspective, adding more employees and working hard 
to keep the employees that we have is really important, and 
trying to find a way to find some consistency from level to 
level through NRC. You know, I know it is challenging. Every 
project is unique. You are dealing with different type of 
standards and different watersheds and whatnot, but if there 
can be ways to put some more consistency together, in my 
situation that would have been amazing.
    Like I said, I still think it is a fantastic program and I 
plan to use it, but at the time it was tough. I had kids in the 
middle of trying to do a manure pit, so that was another. I 
ended up on bedrest for about six weeks before I had babies, so 
that kind of put a cramp on it too.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. Well, yes.
    Mr. Chown. I just wanted to echo a couple of things. Seed 
is a problem in all of these programs. There is a lot of 
bureaucracy. There is a lot of layered decisions and making it 
redundant. We have got to find ways to streamline these 
programs where it makes sense, and we are definitely going to 
be working with Senator Stabenow's talented ag team to be 
looking at how we can make those improvements in the next farm 
bill. Seed is one issue.
    I think another issue that we do need to recognize, I have 
always found the NRCS to be some of the most dedicated 
employees and partners. Garry Lee has got a great team here at 
Michigan. Thank you, Garry. There are capacity issues, and they 
can only get to so many farmers and process so many 
applications. When you have a very bureaucratic, time-intensive 
process, that just compounds the staff capacity issue.
    I think we need to look at both those issues going forward, 
because we have got to increase the speed. Farmers get 
frustrated quickly. They need to move. They are making huge 
decisions about their livelihood. When things are at a snail's 
pace on the delivery systems that is a real problem. I see a 
lot of nodding heads in the audience. Let's figure out how to 
fix those things and streamline the system.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Well, thank you very much. Glen, I 
will just add to that. When we originally did the Regional 
Conservation Partnership Program in 2014, and had the last farm 
bill hearing, we heard things were not getting done, decisions 
were not being made fast enough, and so on. It was helpful, 
with a lot of people in the room we did streamline, and we want 
to continue to hear about what needs to be done.
    All right. Well, thank you so much to all of you. We have 
another panel, and we will take a short pause to allow our 
panelists to come forward. We will take a short break. I just 
want to say thank you to everybody who came. Thank you so very 
much.
    We will take a short break and then be back.
    [Recess.]
    Chairwoman Stabenow. We will convene our second panel. 
Welcome back. We thank so much the first panel that joined us, 
and now we are very pleased to have some other great 
Michiganders that are going to talk to us about important parts 
of our farm bill coalition and what we are doing in Michigan. 
Thank you so much.
    Let me introduce each of our panelists and we will ask them 
to do five minutes' worth of testimony, and anything else, by 
the way, in writing that you want to share with us, we want to 
make sure we have access to that.
    First, Brian Bates owns and operates the Bear Creek Organic 
Farm in Petoskey, Michigan, where he produces USDA-certified 
organic honey, salad greens, microgreens, tomatoes, garlic, 
living herbs, and spring transplants. He and his family started 
farming nine years ago to combat climate change. You are making 
me hungry as I am reading all of these things here.
    Karianne Martus is the manager of the Flint Farmers' 
Market, where she has served in a variety of capacities for 16 
years. The market is located in the heart of downtown Flint and 
has been a fixture in the Genesee County community since 1905.
    Dr. Joe Sullivan is Director of Pullet Operations at 
Herbruck's Poultry Ranch in Saranac, Michigan. In his position, 
Dr. Sullivan oversees the testing, health, and vaccination for 
all Herbruck's chicks, and maintains biosecurity in Herbruck's 
operation. Joe holds a master's in public health with a focus 
on infectious disease, and has his doctorate of veterinary 
medicine.
    Alexander Ball owns and operates Old City Acres in 
Belleville, Michigan, a quarter-acre urban farm that 
specializes in year-round farming, providing fresh and 
seasonable vegetables with a flexible community CSA program. 
Alex has been an active participant in establishing and 
expanding the Washtenaw County Black farmer's fund.
    Allyson Maxwell is the co-owner of Peter Maxwell Farms in 
Beaverton, Michigan, where she raises sugar beets, corn, 
soybeans, and wheat. Allyson also helps run the family pumpkin 
farm that raises pumpkins, ornamental corn, and squash while 
hosting agritourism events. Allyson is the co-chair of 
Solutions for the Land, and is a member-owner of the Michigan 
Sugar Company.
    Rachel Lyons is the Tribal Manager for the Bay Mills Indian 
Community in Brimley, Michigan. In her role, Rachel works on 
forestry issues and food distribution for the tribe, with a 
particular focus on Good Neighbor Authority and the Food 
Distribution Program on Indian reservations.
    Marisa Jacobs is the Senior Associate Grower at Square 
Roots, Inc., in Wyoming, Michigan, an indoor, controlled-
environment farm near Grand Rapids that grows leafy greens and 
lettuces in shipping containers with controlled environment 
agriculture technology.
    Lisa Woodke is Sustainability Director for Star of the West 
Milling Company in Frankenmuth. Lisa established a partnership 
between Star of the West and Land O'Lakes to lead 
sustainability initiatives and also established a partnership 
with The Nature Conservancy to produce sustainable wheat in the 
Saginaw Bay area.
    Welcome so much to each of you, and we will start with 
Brian Bates.

   STATEMENT OF BRIAN BATES, OWNER, BEAR CREEK ORGANIC FARM, 
                          PETOSKEY, MI

    Mr. Bates. Thank you very much Chairwoman Stabenow, Ranking 
Member Boozman, and members of the Senate Agriculture 
Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My 
wife, Anne, and I are first-generation farmers, organic 
farmers, and young and beginning farmers, and farmers who would 
not be here today if not for the farm bill programs that helped 
us get here.
    Like many young farmers, our passion alone was not enough 
to build our vision. We needed money. With no operational 
history to lean on, no generational assets to leverage, no bank 
wanted to touch us. The microloan was a new program in 2013, 
and expanded in the 2014 Farm Bill. It helped us buy our first 
greenhouse and first tractor. It also helped us build credit, 
build equity, and learn to manage debt sustainably.
    With annual sales now exceeding $1 million, it is hard to 
believe that the Bear Creek of today would not have been 
possible without the $35,000 microloan we received in 2013. 
When we saw the need for expansion five years later we were 
able to qualify for a much larger FO loan. The experienced 
counsel of our FSA loan officer helped us manage our risk and 
optimize our growth potential. We have now graduated from the 
FSA credit programs and work with Greenstone Farm Credit to 
support our growing farm.
    Beyond farm credit we have benefited from several other 
farm bill programs. For specialty crop growers, few things can 
transform the profitability of a small farm better than 
hoophouse. We have been fortunate to build three hoophouses 
through the NRCS EQIP program. Based on our experience, we 
recommend increasing the square foot payments on this program 
and expanding the maximum size allowed. Material prices have 
increased dramatically and bigger tunnels are more cost-
effective for growers and much better for plants.
    In 2015, we were awarded a Sustainable Agriculture Research 
and Education (SARE) Farmer Rancher Research Grant. Our project 
focused on overwintering strategies for northern honeybee 
colonies. Through the research we conducted we were able to 
make connections with other beekeepers and researchers, test 
our theories, and we have now managed to achieve 90 to 100 
percent winter survival each year since. Our story is not 
unique. Year after year, SARE grants spur innovation and 
enhance farm viability across the country.
    Another program we value is the Organic Cost Share. This 
program allows organic growers to commit to certification 
without bearing the full cost. With the incredible demand in 
the organic sector, anything to reduce barriers to becoming 
certified organic is a victory for producers and consumers.
    Recent Federal food safety requirements through the Food 
Safety Modernization Act, or FSMA, are one of the most 
significant challenges facing specialty crop producers. We are 
concerned that the costs associated with compliance could put 
many small farms out of business. We recommend the creation of 
a cost-share type program for farms to adopt the necessary 
practices to comply. Whether these programs would cover 
infrastructure, water testing, or tools of technology, any 
investment in food safety would make a difference, as the costs 
of compliance are disproportionately higher for smaller farms.
    Finally, we strongly request that you significant increase 
the farm bill investment to beginning farmers and certified 
organic farmers. Beginning and organic farmers are quite 
literally the future of United States agriculture, and both 
parties currently receive a fraction of the investment they 
need to build the farm future this Nation deserves.
    Thank you so much for the chance to share our experience 
and ideas for the 2023 Farm Bill. We are privileged to be 
living proof of what is possible when our government invests in 
us with investment programs that allow farms like ours to 
startup, grow, and thrive. For that we thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Bates can be found on page 
101 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you so much, Brian, and I forgot 
a very important thing. I was just told that you and your wife 
just had a new baby on Saturday.
    Mr. Bates. That is true, yes.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. A girl or a boy?
    Mr. Bates. A girl named Joy.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Oh my goodness. How wonderful. Well, 
she will carry on the tradition of the farm, and I want to see 
pictures when we are done.
    Mr. Bates. That can be arranged.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Great. All right.
    Mrs. Karianne Martus, please proceed.

 STATEMENT OF KARIANNE MARTUS, MANAGER, FLINT FARMERS' MARKET, 
                           FLINT, MI

    Mrs. Martus. Thank you. I would like to start with a 
heartfelt thanks to Senator Stabenow for your ongoing support 
of the Flint Farmers' Market and to the Flint community as 
well, and to the entire Agriculture Committee for the 
opportunity to speak today.
    Our community has taken many hits over the years, and the 
toll on families struggling to survive is not getting any 
easier. The SNAP/EBT program, which is funded through the farm 
bill, is a consistent source of opportunity for communities 
like ours. Making good food affordable and available for 
families is crucial to try to help people lift themselves out 
of poverty.
    Our market is extremely diverse, both in terms of our 
vendors and our customer base, and almost all of our eligible 
vendors accept SNAP/EBT benefits and participate in the Fair 
Food Network's Double Up Food Bucks Program, which Senator 
Stabenow helped take nationwide in the farm bill by 
establishing the Gus Schumacher Nutrition Incentives Program.
    Our market's participation in these programs does not only 
benefit the people of Genesee County but it has kept our 
farmers in business during particularly trying times such as 
COVID, natural disasters, and economic downturns.
    Some people may be surprised to learn who is aided by food 
assistance, although Dr. Knight earlier did a fantastic job of 
making that very real for all of us. Over the years, EBT has 
been widely associated with low-income, single-parent 
households, but that is not necessarily the case today. We see 
single parents but we also see people with disabilities, 
parents of children with disabilities, senior citizens, college 
students, and displaced veterans. There is no once face of EBT. 
It reflects a broader community of people who are struggling to 
make ends meet and survive.
    It is also a changing population based on circumstances. 
What I mean to say is that people benefiting from food 
assistance, by and large, are not looking to become lifetime 
members of this group. We see so many people at our market who 
have fallen on hard times for a variety of reasons, most of 
whom it is a harsh blow to their pride to accept assistance. It 
becomes for their family not so much a matter of choice but a 
matter of survival.
    I have personally witnessed customers in tears upon 
understanding that by shopping at our farmers' market with SNAP 
and Double Up Food Bucks they can double the amount of good 
food grown by farmers for their families, and it is has been a 
truly humbling experience for many, including myself.
    I have also witnessed the evolution of food education, 
because of programs like Double Up Food Bucks that support 
Michigan agriculture. In 2021, there were more than 150 
farmers' markets in Michigan, 72,856 transactions occurred at 
those markets, and accounted for $1.6 million in SNAP/EBT sales 
for the State, much of which goes directly to our farmers and 
producers. It is a happy occasion to pass a customer having a 
conversation with a farmer or vendor about when Michigan 
produce is in season so that they can better utilize the funds 
that they saved on their card.
    Part of this food evolution also relies on funds to 
continue to promote and educate our community that these types 
of programs are available and how they can best use them to 
benefit their families. The importance of marketing funds for 
farms and farmers' markets cannot be understated, nor can the 
assistance from healthy food financing incentive programs, 
which have also helped to make it possible for our market to 
expand.
    It is important, too, that we talk about technology and the 
integral part it plays in the advancement of food assistance. 
Our market was a pilot over a decade ago for Double Up Food 
Bucks. Most other farmers' markets were using tokens to accept 
food assistance funds for EBT and Double Up Food Bucks. Our 
market, I am very proud to say, has always been a digital 
shopping experience. Beginning with EBT, no tokens at our 
farmers' market.
    When Double Up Bucks came alone we insisted to continue 
that tradition. This was not only for ease of use and a less 
burdensome system on farmers and vendors but also for a larger 
reason. I mentioned earlier the emotional side of using food 
assistance. Our market developed a reward card system for 
shoppers to use Double Up Food Bucks.
    This decision shaped the face of food assistance at our 
market. People in our community who were already struggling did 
now not have to wait in line longer, hold up transactions for 
farmers to count tokens, and feel generally uncomfortable using 
their benefits. Now having an EBT card and getting and using 
Double Up Food Bucks is a positive experience, and the stigma 
of the struggle, at least for the time they are at our market, 
is eased. Technology leveled that playing field. This practice 
should become reality all over the country for EBT and Double 
Up Food Bucks recipients with regard to interactions at 
farmers' markets and with local food producers. Once the Double 
Up Food Bucks program was created, shoppers realized that they 
got more bang for their buck.
    I will wrap up and just say programs like SNAP/EBT and 
Double Up Food Bucks being available at farmers' markets, and 
for farmers more broadly, is a huge part of helping everyone in 
our society to grow stronger and healthier together.

    [The prepared statement of Mrs. Martus can be found on page 
108 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you very much. I know there is 
so much to say about the positive experiences and benefits of 
this.
    Dr. Joe Sullivan, welcome.

     STATEMENT OF JOSEPH SULLIVAN, DVM, DIRECTOR OF PULLET 
OPERATIONS, PRODUCTION, HERBRUCK'S POULTRY RANCH INC., SARANAC, 
                               MI

    Dr. Sullivan. Thank you, Senators, for the opportunity to 
testify today.
    The Herbruck family has been in the egg business for nearly 
a century, and located in Saranac. Herbruck's offers several 
specialty eggs, such as cage-free, organic, and free-range. One 
hundred percent of our conventional corn comes from within the 
State of Michigan, as well as nearly 90 percent of the organic 
corn. The egg is part of a sustainable organic cycle that is 
derived from an animal raised with integrity.
    Egg farmers are affected, both directly and indirectly, by 
the farm bill. I would like to thank this Committee for its 
past work to address and identify animal diseases, including 
the National Animal Disease Preparedness and Response Program 
in the 2018 Farm bill.
    I would like to mention a few issues that are important to 
poultry producers and egg farmers today.
    First, highly pathogenic avian influenza. This year's 
outbreak has already affected over 30 million commercial 
poultry, and 24 million of those are layers. It is critical for 
Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) to have 
access to the CCC funds for indemnities and other costs. In 
addition, APHIS needs to review its indemnity calculations and 
make them more transparent.
    Additional, low-path AI, or avian influenza, is less severe 
than high-path. However, it can mutate into a high-path 
variety. Low-path outbreaks need to be sent out quickly before 
mutation occurs. In the 2023 Farm Bill, Congress should require 
the use of CCC funds to indemnify low-path and cover related 
costs.
    We would like to thank you for your work in the previous 
farm bill and express the importance of the work of the NAHLN 
labs and biosecurity efforts put in place to help identify and 
control diseases. Without these measures we could be in a worse 
situation than we are in this current outbreak.
    Second, the Organic Livestock and Poultry Practices rule 
that is now under review at OMB. We are concerned about this 
rule because it would ban production that had been accepted by 
the USDA for decades, in which farmers have invested millions 
of dollars while greatly reducing the supply of organic eggs 
and increasing consumer prices.
    Finally, agricultural labor. We are having the same 
problems as many other industries do in attracting and 
retaining workers. Congress should come together and pass 
legislation that will ensure access to a reliable farm labor 
supply, including reforms to the H-2A guest worker program to 
make it year-round so it works for animal agriculture. I 
realize that this issue is not directly under this Committee's 
jurisdiction, but I would like to think it is important for you 
to know the issues that have direct impacts on our farm.
    Again, thank you very much.

    [The prepared statement of Dr. Sullivan can be found on 
page 110 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you so much.
    Alexander Ball, welcome.

STATEMENT OF ALEXANDER BALL, OWNER, OLD CITY ACRES, BELLEVILLE, 
                               MI

    Mr. Ball. Thank you. Chair Stabenow, Ranking Member 
Boozman, and members of the Committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today. I, along with two generations 
before me, was born and raised in a small factory town on the 
edge of Detroit. During the height of the housing crisis, I saw 
my local economy collapse and my friends, family, and neighbors 
plunged deeper into poverty, causing many local businesses to 
close, including our local grocery store. At that moment, the 
weight of the situation fell onto me, and at the age of 18 I 
knew that I not only needed to grow food for my community but 
build a more resilient food system on the values of food 
access, mutual aid, and sustainable community-focused growth.
    With no family land or money, the first and largest 
roadblock that would haunt me over the first half of my farming 
career was my lack of access to land and capital. Over the next 
half decade I would move from rented plot to plot, trying to 
find a stable, safe, and long-term location to try and build my 
farming business and agricultural future, all the while not 
being able to invest and build some semblance of a future for 
myself and my family.
    As the years went on, I continued to save whatever scraps 
of income I could to go toward a piece of land of my own, but 
every year land prices and inflation continued to grow, slowly 
pushing me, and many like myself, further away from the 
possibility of owning land and building long-term, 
multigenerational wealth.
    After five years of farming and saving for a small down 
payment and finding a small piece of land to build my forever 
farm, I was ready to take the push and grow my farm into a 
scaled-up business. I was new to the world of banking, land 
buying, and government agencies, but I had heard of the Farm 
Service Agency and knew that they helped farmers.
    After weeks of work trying to get an appointment, I was 
finally all set to meet with my agent. Unfortunately, my agent, 
whose district represented large urban areas, was not from the 
community and was inconveniently located two counties away. I 
drove over an hour to be told that I could not be helped and 
that I should just turn to the private sector to fund my urban 
farming project. I was devastated because every other 
traditional bank I had spoken to was not interested in 
financially backing a produce farm or getting involved in 
agricultural endeavors at all.
    They did, however, give me information to a local ag 
lending association, GreenStone Farm Credit Services, in 2017. 
When I reached out, I was blown away at how quickly they 
directly understood and supported my business, and I was given, 
almost immediately, a loan to purchase my first farm property. 
Over the last five years I have been given subsequent farm 
loans to help build my business. This direct access to capital 
has been the deciding factor in the overall possible success of 
my business. using these transfer payments directly to our 
farm.
    As a peri-urban farm, I spend a lot of my time on the edge 
between rural and urban spaces, and one of the biggest hurdles 
I see is the lack of direct information about State and Federal 
programs directly aimed toward small and urban growers. When 
FSA and other government agencies are located so far from urban 
centers there is no way to prevent disparity in access and use 
of those programs put in place to prevent that exact issue. 
Thank you to Senator Stabenow for taking the first steps to 
address this disparity by creating the Office of Urban 
Agriculture in the 2018 Farm Bill, to help farmers like myself.
    This last year I had the privilege to cooperate with other 
local growers and institutions to start the Washtenaw County 
Black Farmer's fund. Our goal was to raise funds from our 
community and redistribute it back to Black farmers in order to 
grow their infrastructure and production. Over 2022, we were 
able to raise $100,000 and redistribute that to the community, 
and we are hoping to beat that next year. Through this fund, we 
were also able to act as an informational hub connecting 
growers directly to additional funding or technical assistance 
from local farmers, non-profits, and GreenStone Farm Credit 
Service.
    There is much work to be done at every single level of the 
food system, and I believe that we are just at the beginning of 
a new era of local food production and technological 
interconnectedness that will increase access to food, 
information, and resources to more folks. Constantly 
strengthening of the food supply chain is imperative, and we 
need the continued and expanded roles of FSA, Washtenaw Black 
Farmer's Fund, Office of Urban Agriculture, and GreenStone Farm 
Credit Services to continue this great work.
    Thank you so much.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Ball can be found on page 
113 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you very much for all of your 
efforts.
    Now Allyson Maxwell. Welcome.

 STATEMENT OF ALLYSON MAXWELL, CO-OWNER, PETER MAXWELL FARMS, 
                         BEAVERTON, MI

    Mrs. Maxwell. Chairwoman Stabenow, Ranking Member Boozman, 
thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is 
Allyson Maxwell and I farm with my husband, Peter, in 
Beaverton, Michigan, while also raising our three very active 
sons. Peter and I are proud to be a part of a 
multigenerational, diversified, MAEAP-verified family farm that 
has the privilege of providing food, fiber, and fuel for our 
world.
    In October, we open Maxwell's Pumpkin Farm alongside our 
family in order to sell pumpkins, squash, ornamental corn, and 
other treats to the public, and also to share our life in 
agriculture with the public and help to educate them about what 
we do.
    It is an honor today to provide input to the Committee on 
behalf of corn-growers and sugar beet farmers in Michigan. It 
is a great responsibility to grow safe and sustainable food, to 
take care of our land, and to provide a good future for our 
sons, and it certainly is what keeps us motivated every day.
    First, as a sugar beet grower, I urge the Committee to 
support the U.S. sugar policy, which is structured to serve 
American farmers, consumers, food manufacturers, and taxpayers, 
and has operated at zero cost to taxpayers 17 of the past 18 
years.
    While our sugar program has worked, the low rate for 
refined beet sugar as not kept up with inflation nor the 
steeply rising cost of production. As such, we would support 
looking at how the farm safety net could better match actual 
operating costs for producers.
    Sugar is a staple in most kitchens, including mine, and I 
would also like to note that as a mother of three I am proud of 
the fact that I out of all the items I have had trouble finding 
at the grocery stores over the past few years, sugar was not 
one of them, and I think my sons and my husband were too.
    Second, the safety net provided by crop insurance is vital 
to maintaining the agriculture industry in this country, 
especially in the face of increasingly unpredictable disasters 
like drought, flood, and extreme weather. A memory that stuck 
with me as a child was watching my aunt and uncle in 
Southeastern Missouri almost lose their farm because they had 
no insurance. Fortunately they are still farming today and are 
another example of a great American farm family that also is 
able to take advantage of having a crop insurance program.
    Next with regard to conservation programs, we are fortunate 
to farm in the backyard of the beautiful Saginaw Bay, which 
strives us to continually improve our sustainability efforts to 
protect our land and water. We appreciate Chairwoman Stabenow's 
strong leadership in that area. It is imperative that we 
continue to provide the tools and support for farms like ours, 
to keep the trades and technology that we currently have which 
allows us to utilize climate-smart best practices as well as 
adopting new practices and technology.
    We also appreciate Chairwoman Stabenow's efforts in order 
to improve our PLC programs for corn-growers in Michigan and 
urge the Committee to continue to look for ways to ensure 
producers have market-based risk management tools.
    Trade promotion programs are also critical for the future 
of our industry. We believe that the Market Access Program with 
Foreign Market Development funding should be increased as it is 
critical to the effectiveness of these programs.
    I would also like to note that the FSA young and beginning 
farmer loan was a critical lifeline on our farm, and I would 
encourage the Committee to continue to support new and 
beginning farmers.
    In addition, much of what we have able to achieve on our 
farm has been made possible by a reliable source of funding 
from GreenStone Farm Credit Services, like Alex. The farm 
credit system's role in rural America is critical, and our 
local GreenStone branch has truly been a valued partner to us. 
Most recently they have helped us to weather radical price 
increases in our crop inputs.
    Finally, U.S. farmers have faced unprecedented challenges 
in recent years. I hope that the previous and current supply 
chain challenges will galvanize bipartisan support to ensure 
our farmers have a strong safety net so farms like ours can 
continue to operate.
    As Congress discusses reauthorizing the farm bill I hope 
that the issues facing farmers today will remain at the 
forefront. A successful farm bill reauthorization should 
continue to support new and existing farmers, especially with 
the economic realities facing farmers today.
    I just wanted to thank you, Senator, for all of your hard 
work on the 2018 Farm Bill and getting that done. Thank you so 
much.

    [The prepared statement of Mrs. Maxwell can be found on 
page 117 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you very much and thank you for 
your testimony.
    Rachel Lyons, welcome.

       STATEMENT OF RACHEL LYONS, TRIBAL MANAGER, TRIBAL 
    ADMINISTRATION, BAY MILLS INDIAN COMMUNITY, BRIMLEY, MI

    Mrs. Lyons. Thank you. Chairwoman Stabenow, Ranking Member 
Boozman, and invited guests, I am honored to be with you this 
morning. Aanii Boozhoo. My name is Rachel Lyons and I am an 
enrolled member of the Bay Mills Indian Community. We are a 
small, federally recognized Native American tribe located on 
the shores of Lake Superior in Michigan's Upper Peninsula.
    I am appearing before the Committee in my capacity as the 
tribal manager for my community. In this role I have management 
responsibilities for various governmental departments, 
including the Commodities Food Department and Fire Management 
Department, both of which have been significantly impacted by 
the USDA's Agricultural Improvement Act. The programs and 
funding associated with this legislation are an absolute 
necessity for our communities to not only address concerns 
related to our natural resources but also in helping to 
increase food security for our people.
    Due to the expanded authorities of the 2018 bill, our tribe 
has been able to contract with USDA Forest Service under the 
Good Neighbor Authority. This collaboration has allowed for the 
ongoing successful stewardship and land management of the 
Hiawatha National Forest.
    Our Commodity Food program has been in operation for 
decades, with Food Distribution Program on Indian Reservations 
(FDPIR) being its primary funding source. This program has been 
a constant for providing necessary nutrition to some of our 
most vulnerable tribal members.
    Our community has seen many successes come from these 
programs, but we also see many potential opportunities for 
improving upon the implementation of both the Good Neighbor 
Agreement and FDPIR. The Good Neighbor Agreement between Bay 
Mills and the Forest Service has fostered a strong relationship 
between our two entities. The increase communication, 
interactions, and support from this program have formed several 
other progressive agreements for our two entities, including an 
unprecedented Lighthouse Management Agreement.
    Our fire crew has historically been funded by the Bureau of 
Indian Affairs RTRL program. This administration is strongly 
promoting coordination amongst agencies and stakeholders. I 
believe there is great prospect here for the USDA to work 
alongside the Department of Interior and tribal nations to 
achieve critical goals for conservation and forestry.
    Our Commodities Department has not only been able to 
provide access to nutrition for our community, but they have 
also implemented various educational and outreach services for 
our members. One strong concern pertaining to the FDPIR program 
has continuously been the income eligibility requirements. The 
overall standards to access both FDPIR and SNAP truly needs to 
be reassessed. If the USDA were to increase the income 
eligibility limits even slightly the agency would be able to 
serve this often overlooked, working poor class of citizens 
that are many times faced with food insecurity.
    As with many governmental programs, there is room for 
improvement. Three minutes simply is not enough time for me to 
convey our full story, but this Committee needs to be aware 
that there have been many achievements that have come from this 
legislation. I greatly appreciate this opportunity to present 
these impacts. Miigwetch, thank you, and I look forward to any 
questions you may have.

    [The prepared statement of Mrs. Lyons can be found on page 
123 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you very much.
    Marisa Jacobs.

  STATEMENT OF MARISA JACOBS, SENIOR ASSOCIATE GROWER, GRAND 
            RAPIDS, SQUARE ROOTS, INC., WYOMING, MI

    Ms. Jacobs. Chairwoman Stabenow, Ranking Member Boozman, 
and members of the Committee, my name is Marisa Jacobs from 
Square Roots. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
    I grew up in Clarkston, Michigan, and studied environmental 
studies and sustainability at Northern Michigan University. A 
professor introduced me to the concept of indoor farming, which 
connected my love for plants and sustainability. This became a 
career path I began to research and pursue.
    After graduation I discovered what Square Roots was doing 
with Gordon Food Service in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Gordon Food 
Service is a 125-year-old food distributor that was looking for 
innovative ways to meet growing customer needs and growing 
customer demand for fresh local products.
    Square Roots is a tech-enabled leader in Controlled 
Environment Agriculture (CEA). CEA is a form of hydroponic 
agriculture where plants grow in an enclosed environment year-
round, regardless of the climate. CEA offers many benefits, 
including bringing fresh food to urban areas, reducing 
environmental impacts, and creating a reliable, year-round 
model for farming.
    Square Roots' farms utilizes a water-efficient, vertical 
growing system which requires less space than outdoor farms. A 
single steel shipping container provides 320 square feet of 
growing space that can produce hundreds of pounds of non-GMO, 
pesticide-free produce per week. This climate-controlled 
environment creates optimal growing conditions for small herbs 
and vegetables such as cilantro, dill, basil, and microgreens. 
We can replicate the conditions existing in the best years of 
certain crops, such as basil from Genoa, Italy in June 1997. I 
can control the entire container on my phone through the use of 
software, the Square Roots Farmer Toolbelt.
    I started as an apprentice grower to learn the tech and the 
production and sale of the products that are now offered in 250 
retail stores and to Gordon Food Service restaurant customer. I 
know that the farm bill authorizes programs to support and 
train beginning farmers, including the Beginning Farmer and 
Rancher Development Program, which thanks to Senator Stabenow's 
leadership received permanent mandatory funding in the 2018 
Farm Bill. This farm bill program could be used to train future 
generations of not only indoor growers but also traditional 
growers.
    Because of my time as an apprentice, my skills have 
developed significantly. After my apprenticeship was complete I 
took on an associate grower role and then was promoted to a 
senior associate grower. I am one of 30 employees in the State 
of Michigan who enable and operate our farm.
    In closing, we are grateful to Senator Stabenow's efforts 
to authorize the Office of Urban Agriculture and Innovative 
Production at the USDA in the 2018 Farm Bill. We hope to see 
grants, funding, or other programs available in the 
reauthorization farm bill to further support CEA and apprentice 
programs for the next generations of farmers. Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Jacobs can be found on page 
129 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you so much.
    Last but not least, Lisa Woodke.

STATEMENT OF LISA WOODKE, SUSTAINABILITY DIRECTOR, STAR OF THE 
               WEST MILLING CO., FRANKENMUTH, MI

    Ms. Woodke. Thank you. Good morning, Chairwoman Stabenow, 
Ranking Member Boozman, and members of the Committee. My name 
is Lisa Woodke, and I am the Sustainability Director at Star of 
the West Milling Company. We are a flour miller, dry bean 
processor, and agronomy services provider based in Frankenmuth, 
Michigan. I appreciate the opportunity to be with you today.
    Star of the West was founded in 1870, and brings a unique 
view to food sustainability and the future of climate-smart 
foodsheds. Every day we work closely with farmers and food 
processors helping meet market demands for sustainability. To 
get this job done we rely on people--our expert agronomists and 
certified crop advisors, as well as technology. For us, this 
technology includes Syngenta's AgriEdge farm management 
software and Trugerra, the sustainability business at Land 
O'Lakes. These tools help farmers better target their 
conservation practices, supporting both economic and 
environmental sustainability.
    Star of the West is working hard to stay ahead of the curve 
in this area. For example, we helped bring to market the Airly 
cracker, a new, climate-smart snacking option from Bright 
Future Foods. It is chocolate-flavored, so I will let you have 
that.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Do you have two boxes left?
    Ms. Woodke. I will get another.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Okay.
    Ms. Woodke. This cracker is produced using carbon-negative 
wheat grown on Michigan farms. We have also partnered with 
Kellogg Company and The Nature Conservancy, and we have 
gathered insights and data to showcase the benefits of wheat on 
the farm. We expect this space to continue to evolve quickly.
    As you consider the next farm bill, we see two critical 
needs for this work--people and food. First, let's talk people. 
Human capital is critical. We encourage new investment to 
support social networks for farmers, investment to enhance 
agronomists' climate-smart agricultural skills, and investment 
to engage beginning and smaller-scale farmers.
    Second, food production. We see the potential for Michigan 
to have a climate-smart foodshed providing both food and 
environmental benefits for our communities. The farm bill can 
support regional processors and markets and help institutional 
buyers like schools and hospital access locally grown grains, 
legumes, and other food items. This will help bolster markets 
for new and emerging crops and nourish some of our most 
vulnerable populations.
    This farm bill could also provide growers greater 
flexibility to qualify for cover crop incentives while still 
producing a food crop. Winter wheat is a perfect example of 
this for our region. In addition, working lands conservation 
programs that provide flexibility would benefit both farm 
stewardship and food production.
    Agriculture is advancing every day. Actual horses became 
horsepower, corn is now a hybrid, and wheat can be a carbon 
sink. We are at an exciting crossroads where farmers can use 
incredible technology to deliver quantifiable environmental 
benefits while nourishing that which we treasure most, our 
families and communities.
    Thank you for the opportunity to present on behalf of Star 
of the West. I appreciate your leadership, and I would be happy 
to answer any questions you may have.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Woodke can be found on page 
148 in the appendix.]

    Chairwoman Stabenow. Wonderful. Thank you so much, to all 
of you, for your very, very important testimony. Let me start 
with our new dad, Mr. Bates.
    All of us here today know how important research is to 
producers, and I know in your written testimony you discussed 
the importance of agricultural research, both on the farm as 
well as off the farm. I wondered if you might talk a little bit 
more about research programs and how important they are to your 
operations.
    Mr. Bates. Yes, sure. That is a great question. In many 
ways my start into agriculture involved research. My first job 
was volunteering on a research project on a farm when I was in 
college, and then my first paying farm job was working on a 
research farm while in college. Since then research has sort of 
been the foundation of our business. We are in a relatively new 
field. We are certainly new farmers. We have no generational 
knowledge to draw upon.
    I think the thing that we so often miss about research is 
we tend to just think of it as very static, lab coats in the 
field, trials, and it is sometimes hard to relate.
    I think one thing that we forget about is research comes in 
many different ways, and it is really, really hard to do good 
research and run a profitable business simultaneously. We have 
enjoyed the on-farm research we have done but what we enjoy 
more is when somebody's full-time job is to do the research and 
shares with us the results. I think sharing that knowledge has 
never been easier, but there is so much knowledge that 
sometimes it is hard to sort through what is legitimate and 
what is not, and that is where I think the value of farm bill-
funded research adds a certain level of legitimacy to the work 
that is being done.
    I also think that we also miss the process of doing 
research. The process of being a part of it, whether formal or 
informally a part of it, really builds networks far beyond the 
projects that we are working on. We felt that first-hand with 
our on-farm beekeeping research, was yes, we made progress with 
what we did but the connections we made with other beekeepers, 
with researchers at MSU, with researchers at Purdue, those 
networks have provided a lot of additional value for our 
business ever since then.
    Then last I would just say that all research is not crop 
varieties and yield. I think there is a lot of really good 
research being done in market growth, business research, how to 
build a farm business to survive in this economy. As farms like 
ours look to hold onto staff year-round and want to grow our 
business in new and different ways, having legitimate market 
research and business research sometimes provides just as much 
value as which crop to plant.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Great. Thank you very much. Let me ask 
this both to Mr. Ball and Ms. Jacobs. Each of you are producing 
food in non-traditional or urban agriculture areas and you have 
very different production systems in what you are doing. Each 
of you are doing really important work in those areas.
    Could you describe how the USDA Office of Urban Agriculture 
and Innovative Programs can further help you as urban farmers?
    Mr. Ball. Thank you for that question. Yes, I think the one 
thing that would be really helpful is that language culture of 
messaging directed toward these urban growers who really, I 
have found, just need access to information. It more a 
misunderstanding or not understanding of the wording of a lot 
of these programs. I think that what can be helpful is a need 
for low-amount loans, especially for these urban growers like 
myself, who do not need a $20,000 tractor. They need $5,000 to 
build a wash pad to wash vegetables, or they need $3,000 to 
rebuild a truck to get to market.
    Senators from ag, if you can really work to connect these 
local growers with these already-existing programs I think that 
is where the real need is.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you. Ms. Jacobs?
    Ms. Jacobs. Yes. On behalf of a controlled indoor 
environment and a much different growing capability that we 
have, and it is year-round, something that I would be 
interested in is--but I know the USDA is already working on, 
with an indoor grow system--is yield and data standards, 
because they differentiate incredibly from a traditional farm 
to an indoor farm.
    Then also just the consumer education on these different 
growing methods, from farm-to-farm. There is different food 
safety and farmer safety that occurs in the indoor farm 
compared to a traditional farm. Just having those set standards 
for these different things and having all those metrics out 
there for everyone.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Great. Thank you very much.
    Mrs. Martus, let me talk about Double Up Bucks for a 
moment, which we are so proud started in Michigan a number of 
years ago. We know that it has doubled actually since 2020, and 
in your testimony you talked about how important it is to 
educate people about healthy eating habits. It is something we 
all need to do.
    Based on your experience at the Flint Farmers' Market, what 
would you say is the greatest challenge that SNAP participants 
face as they try to eat healthy meals, and what are some of the 
ways that you have helped to address these challenges?
    Mrs. Martus. Sure. It is no secret that a lot of times 
locally grown food can cost more to produce than the food that 
people get at a big box store. Getting people to understand the 
value when you do not have a lot of choices and it is a 
necessity is not easy but it is possible, with persistence and 
a personal experience.
    One of the big issues is relationship to where people live. 
Where can you spend your SNAP/EBT Double Up Food Bucks in a way 
that you have a nice variety? It is very easy for people to get 
junk food from a corner store or a gas station. The incentive 
that Double Up Food Bucks provided, and letting people know 
that through marketing funds and educational programs with MSU 
Extension, a huge help in terms of helping us spread that word. 
People automatically make better choices when they are able to 
come to a farmers' market and get locally grown food.
    We also work with our mass transit authority, MTA. They 
provide rides to groceries. Sometimes if people cannot get 
there they can call for a ride. We are also located next to the 
bus terminal.
    The other thing is once you get the food, what do you do 
with it? If people are just learning to eat better it does not 
do a lot of good if you just buy the food and then it just sits 
there. At a farmers' market and at a farm stand, people have an 
opportunity, if they can take their SNAP and EBT and Double Up 
Food Bucks there, they can find out, well, what exactly is this 
vegetable or fruit, and when is it ripe? When should I eat it? 
What are all the things I can do with it? Can I save it? Can I 
can it? All of those types of things. That is a big difference 
maker.
    In our market we have also participated--and a lot of this 
is through State funding with the WIC, Project FRESH, Senior 
Project FRESH programs, and with Michigan State Extension 
programs, through the School of Public Health, which is 
conveniently located across our parking lot in Flint, we have 
prescriptions for health, which started out at the Early 
Children's Clinic, which was a very big part of the Flint water 
crisis. It is an opportunity when children go in for well kid 
or well-baby visits, they walk out with a prescription that 
looks just like what you would get for medication, except it is 
for fresh fruits and vegetables at the farmers' market. That 
has been a very exciting experience, very fun to walk by and 
see kids with their prescription, talking to farmers and 
talking to vendors about what can I get with this today and 
what can I make with it?
    All of those really personal experiences are so important 
to helping people see that this is a value. You do have a 
choice, a little bit of at choice at least, to make a better 
choice for your family.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Great. Thank you so much.
    Dr. Sullivan, unfortunately we are facing this second 
major, highly pathogenic avian influenza outbreak in the last 
eight years. More than 30 million domestic birds have already 
been impacted. I know that Michigan's poultry and egg industry 
is really on high alert. I know you are. There is a very real 
threat to producers as well as our economy and consumers who 
may see higher prices as a result.
    Could you explain how Herbruck's and other egg producers in 
Michigan benefit--and you talked a little bit about the animal 
health programs, but could you talk a little bit more about the 
importance of those programs, and particularly as we are 
looking at the threats now that we see?
    Dr. Sullivan. Yes, so since you brought up the previous 
outbreak we had it is starting to become more narrow since we 
have seen another outbreak then in years past. The landscape of 
chickens and poultry production has changed quite a bit, how we 
raise the birds. We are allowing to be outside as well as 
having more backyard producers. This is allowing the animals to 
actually intermingle with the wildlife, which is creating those 
diseases.
    The health programs allow us to educate producers as well 
as hobbyists on their birds, infectious disease and how it is 
spread through the wildlife. Labs such as the one here at 
Michigan State, that we visit quite frequently, allows us to 
test our flocks frequently and then lets us know when we have 
issues within the State that we can react quickly.
    Avian influenza has a vaccine in other countries. However, 
we are not allowed to vaccinate the birds due to trade 
implications. We are kind of stuck to biosecurity, which is 
essentially the protective measures we do to keep diseases out 
of our farms and our flocks, so eliminating interactions with 
other poultry as well as other wildlife.
    All of these measures, very important to train the people 
as well as using the labs in place to help us detect.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you so much. I will turn to 
Senator Boozman.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Madam Chair, very much.
    Mrs. Maxwell, you mentioned the importance of crop 
insurance to your operation. Can you please elaborate on the 
role crop insurance plays in your ability to mitigate risk and 
what your experience has been with the program?
    Mrs. Maxwell. Yes. Thank you for the question. You know, I 
did not grow up in agriculture. I married into agriculture. I 
was lucky. I really had some eye-popping moments when I look at 
the bills that are paid, the equipment that we have. When I was 
growing up I did see my aunt and uncle, they almost lost their 
farm in Southeastern Missouri in the 1980's because crop 
insurance was not available at the time.
    When I married into a farm I thought, wow, this is a really 
heavy thing. This is something that needs to be managed and it 
is serious. That is something that Peter and I worked together, 
with our crop agent, just to assess our risks, make sure that 
we got a good balance there of what want to pay out of pocket 
and what we want to be covered for. It is a really, really 
important risk tool that we have.
    I know that is something that we always take advantage of 
every year, and we are really grateful for it, and the fact 
that it is protected by our farm bill.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you very much.
    Dr. Sullivan, I want to follow up on the Chairwoman's 
question regarding poultry. We are a huge poultry producer in 
Arkansas, of all types. Do you think we need to be doing 
anything different or additional to what we are doing regarding 
trying to address the risks that we have?
    Dr. Sullivan. There is always room for improving education, 
especially within the consumers and the increase of backyard 
flocks. Again, going back to vaccination, we can revisit the 
trade implications, what is preventing us from using the bird's 
immune system to protect them from the disease itself, and it 
has been proven to work.
    Going up with biosecurity only is a great preventative 
measure. However, we may need other pieces in place to help 
prevent this from the spread, since it is prevalent in so many 
wild animals.
    Senator Boozman. Well, we appreciate that. You are a major 
in the area so again, we look forward to hearing more about 
that as we go forward.
    Mrs. Lyons, I applaud the great work that the Bay Mills 
Indian Community is doing under the farm bill's Good Neighbor 
Authority in partnership with the Forest Service to increase 
desirable timber, improve forest ecosystems, and enhance 
wildlife habitats.
    I would like to hear your thoughts on what is working well 
under the Good Neighbor Authority and what is needed, if 
anything, to help your tribal community and others continue the 
important work of keeping our forests healthy for generations 
to come. It is great to be in this building where we see the 
ability to use different types of timber, and it is just 
something that we are working hard on in Arkansas with the 
ability to build entities in that fashion. I think it is a 
great opportunity for agriculture.
    Mrs. Lyons. Absolutely. Thank you for the question, Ranking 
Member Boozman. Some of the things that I have seen come from 
the Good Neighbor Agreement that have been beneficial to not 
only our community, the Forest Service, but our lands in 
general, has been--I kind of touched on it in my opening 
statement there--is that relationship that we are building 
between the two organizations, between the Forest Service and 
our tribe.
    Our fire crew is able to learn different aspects of manned 
management of forestry from the Forest Service that we 
typically would not have access to. Furthering our capacity 
internally with the tribe and allowing them to then take this 
knowledge and impart it into the other work that they do, 
typically through the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) Reserved 
Treaty Rights Lands (RTRL) program. That is where I have really 
seen a great benefit come from this.
    In addition, I mentioned that we have gotten some really 
progressive agreements together as a team because of this 
relationship that we have formed. I think that is one of our 
greatest benefits. Then a great direct benefit outside of that 
is our forests. They are much more plentiful with the preferred 
species now. Our teams work to remove unwanted vegetation, 
invasive species, to help to reduce the fuel, to have fuels 
reduction, so that there is less likelihood of wildfires.
    You know, we live in the rural Upper Peninsula. Our big 
draw for people to come up there, where we have some of the 
harshest winters in the Nation even, our big draw is tourism, 
recreational tourism. That tourism takes place in our forests, 
in our waterways. This work is really helping to take care of 
those resources and help support our economy, quite frankly.
    It has been an amazing agreement. In regard to what more 
could we use, I mean, I think any one of us can speak more 
funding. You know, we need more for our tribal crew to be able 
to provide these services. There are a lot of unallowable costs 
with the Good Neighbor Authority that the tribe is having to 
absorb, and quite frankly we are not a rich tribe. We do not 
have the resources, and this may be a problem going for the 
long term. More funding and more flexibility in what is 
allowable with that funding.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you very much.
    Mrs. Maxwell, I have always said the farm bill is a jobs 
bill. I think we know it is a jobs bill, and many farm 
programs, including the sugar program, help support farmers and 
generate jobs along the supply chain for food manufacturers and 
users. Could you talk a little bit more about the USDA's sugar 
program and the economic impact it has in terms of supporting 
family farms like yours, as well as jobs beyond the farm?
    Mrs. Maxwell. Thank you for the question. I would love to.
    Michigan Sugar Company employs regularly about 1,000 full-
time employees, 800 of which are union, so that is a great 
relationship, and for the mid-Michigan community those are 
really critical jobs. In addition to that there is another what 
we would hope to have about 1,200 seasonal employees, which I 
think it is getting harder and harder to find these days, which 
is a challenge. There are four working factors in different 
communities, so that is a really important thing for those 
communities to maintain and keep those jobs.
    In addition to that it all the grower-owners that are 
involved as well. Sugar really kind of runs deep in the family, 
in the Maxwell family, and it is something that we are proud to 
be sugar producers. There is about three to five times the 
manpower that goes into harvesting a sugar beet crop than a 
regular commodity, so we need that crop to continue to pay for 
us, to be able to do that, which is why I think we are kind of 
asking for a little bit of a look at that number.
    You know, in general, the economic impact directly is $600 
million a year, and that stays in our community, which I think 
is really notable.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Great. Thank you very much.
    Mrs. Lyons, I am so glad to have you talking about your 
partnership with the Forest Service and the Good Neighbor 
Authority. I am so glad we could get that into the 2014 Farm 
Bill and then to be able to expand it in 2018. I know that 
Senator Boozman has asked you about this already but I wonder 
if you might just expand a bit on how this supports your 
tribe's environmental management goals.
    Mrs. Lyons. I had touched on a bit of this in the previous 
answer. The educational component, the GNA supports that. It 
builds our capacity and it takes care of our local forests. 
Like I said before, we depend upon that area for people to come 
and want to enjoy and explore those resources. If we have 
wildfires and if we are not taking care of those areas we are 
just not going to have that tourism coming into our area. Our 
economy depends upon that, not just the tribe. You know, our 
entire regional economy depends on that.
    The Good Neighbor Agreement has been very beneficial. 
Outside of that, you know, it keeps 12 of our crew working into 
what is typically their layoff season, so that they are able to 
earn a paycheck and support their families. It is has been an 
amazing agreement.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Great. Thank you. For my final 
question, Ms. Woodke, private companies like Star of the West 
are really in a unique position to connect farmers and create 
new market opportunities--you have talked about that--that can 
reward them for adopting conservation practices. Could you talk 
a little bit more about how private companies like yours can 
better support farmers who are looking to learn more or adopt 
climate-smart production and practices?
    Ms. Woodke. Yes. Thank you for the question. Private 
companies like Star of the West need the ability to hire more 
people. We need boots on the ground in the form of maybe a 
climate-smart agronomist, to focus one-on-one with the growers. 
I mentioned that we have got a wonderful array of tools in 
Trugerra and AgriEdge, but those tools are not useful without 
people to input that data, without people to explain that data, 
without people to work directly, one-on-one with farmers. 
Sustainability is like a toolbox and there are hundreds of 
things that a person could do on a farm, and farms are each 
unique and individual. People to work one-on-one, like we have 
all talked about here, that personal aspect and the 
relationship to know those items, to share those items, and 
then be able to incorporate the people and the technology 
altogether is ways that private companies can help.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you. I appreciate.
    I will turn to Senator Boozman for his questions.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Mrs. Martus, in your experience with the nutrition programs 
you mentioned the early adoption of EBT for digital 
transactions at farmers' markets. What recommendations do you 
have for organizations who may have limited funds or access to 
reliable connectivity in the adoption of the technology?
    Mrs. Martus. Well, that is a great question, and I think 
part of that is for people a lot more technologies. I do not 
need an agent to figure that out but I think I would say it is 
really important, you have heard education and technology 
several times in all the different folks have been talking 
today. I think technology, in relation to farmers' markets and 
areas where there is a lot of SNAP redemption and Double Up 
Food Bucks, we need to continue to keep up.
    I think that indicates further funding, and it is both 
ways. It is to help people have the funds on their cards to be 
able to use but it is also to help our farmers and our 
producers to be up to speed, so that it is not cumbersome to 
make those transactions. I mean, we are coming a long way. 
There are apps right now that are for Double Up Food Bucks. 
That is what we use. There are also SNAP/EBT apps that are used 
in different parts of the country, but it is not across the 
board.
    Right now if you are a farmer at a farmers' market, you 
have got a couple of people in line, you have got to do an EBT 
transaction one particular device and then you have to do a 
Double Up Food Bucks transaction on another device. Then you 
might have a credit or debit sale, and maybe somebody is paying 
cash. You are just trying to hurry, and you want to give good 
customer service.
    I think empowering our farmers and our producers through 
increased funding for technology so that everybody is coming to 
the table with the same tools I think would be huge, not just 
for the shoppers but, in particular, for our farmers and our 
vendors.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. Thank you.
    Mr. Bates, there is ample conversation in Washington about 
the National Organic Standards Board and streamlining the 
regulatory process at the National Organic Program. What is 
your level of confidence that thee National Organic Standards 
Board adequately represents your interests and humanitarian 
interests of the industry? Do you have further thoughts about 
whether current organic standards best represent the industry 
and consumer expectations and how can we help with that?
    Mr. Bates. That is a good and loaded question about organic 
agriculture. I think everyone in here probably has an opinion. 
I will say for me it has felt like just in the last couple of 
terms on the NOSB I have felt like I see more farmers like me 
on the board. There are also representatives that are 
representing interests that are completely counter to what I 
think is the integrity of the organic standards, but at least 
my voice is also represented. I feel good about that.
    I feel like the implementation of becoming certified 
organic is oftentimes depicted as far more complicated than it 
is. That is my first-hand experience. We are a multiple-crop 
farm. By all accounts we should have a very complicated organic 
application.
    My sense is that the challenge with growing organically is 
actually the growing, not so much the paperwork. I feel like 
the paperwork is overstated.
    Senator Boozman. Where does that come from? Why is that the 
case?
    Mr. Bates. Well----
    Senator Boozman. As far as the perception or whatever with 
the paperwork?
    Mr. Bates. I think that there has been a lot of efforts by 
many different parties in consumer education to try to educate 
consumers why organic costs more. I think that is so often the 
front of the conversation. I think unfortunately one of the 
narratives that has led is that bureaucracy and paperwork is 
expensive, when I think the main reason organic costs more is 
the input costs and the labor costs, which is what the 
gentleman earlier mentioned.
    I think that would probably be the No. 1 concern. I do not 
have a tremendous concern with the paperwork required. 
Obviously, no one wants to deal with paperwork. We are 
certified organic. We are B-Corp certified, the first one in 
the State of Michigan. That was a far more rigorous process to 
become a certified organic.
    We just recently did an add-on organic certification called 
Real Organic Project Verified. This is a new, third-party 
certification that is trying to strengthen the integrity that 
was in the original organic rule. I had hesitancy about doing 
that because it might dilute the organic seal that we value so 
much, but the more time has gone on the more I feel like 
consumers understand that maybe not all organic imports are 
equal, maybe not all organic products are equal. It felt like a 
good reason for us to build that trust.
    I would be opposed to anything that would give the illusion 
that becoming certified organic is too easy, too fast. I think 
it does not need to be expensive, but I do not think we should 
be focused on lowering the barriers to entry from people 
playing by the rules. I think everybody should be growing the 
right way.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. I want to thank you, Madam 
Chair, for holding the hearing here. This was great. We had 
such a great variety of people represented that did a 
tremendous job. we got your personal testimony and also your 
written testimony, which is very, very helpful.
    The other thing is I am here, but I think probably even 
more important is I have got a bunch of staff here. Why don't 
you all stand up.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Let's have all of our staff stand 
because they worked as partners on this.
    Senator Boozman. I think you know--maybe some of you do not 
know--these are the people who actually do the work. They have 
been busy listening and taking notes. It is really hard to 
delve into great detail, but a lot of things that you all have 
mentioned really do--some of them just come up over and over 
again, which is really good, and then others that we have not 
heard as much about are just things that--I made a bunch of 
notes--things that we need to look into.
    Thank you all for being here, and again, thank you, Madam 
Chair, for just a great hearing to get us started.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Well, thank you so much, and thank you 
for coming to Michigan, coming to East Lansing, Michigan State, 
and for everybody being here.
    I would just say this, that in the midst of still coming 
out of a pandemic, a war, we are seeing climate crisis, all of 
it, partisan issues that we hear about all the time, we are 
deeply committed to working together to solve problems in these 
unprecedented times, and we will. We will move forward in a 
bipartisan way to be able to get things done together.
    I really love my role as Chairwoman of the Committee. I 
have been so honored to have the opportunity to do this. I had 
an opportunity to write two farm bills with my friend and 
colleague, Senator Pat Roberts, who came to Michigan State as 
well. He used to call the table in our hearing--we actually sit 
around a table, traditionally, in the hearing room, and he 
called it ``America's kitchen table.''
    I appreciate Senator Boozman coming to our table today, and 
all of you coming to the table, and that the Razorback from 
Arkansas is willing to be an honorary Spartan today. I will say 
one more time, Go Green.
    All right. On that note, the record will remain open for 
five business days for members to submit additional questions 
for the record. This hearing is adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 12:58 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

      
=======================================================================


                            A P P E N D I X

                             April 29, 2022

=======================================================================


[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                 [all]