[Senate Hearing 117-522]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
______
S. Hrg. 117-522
CRANE, MAROOTIAN, AND RODRIGUES NOMINATIONS
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
to
CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF DAVID CRANE TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF
ENERGY, JEFFREY M. MAROOTIAN TO BE AN ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF ENERGY
(ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND RENEWABLE ENERGY), AND GENE RODRIGUES TO BE AN
ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF ENERGY (ELECTRICITY DELIVERY AND ENERGY
RELIABILITY)
__________
NOVEMBER 17, 2022
__________
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
49-938 WASHINGTON : 2024
COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
Renae Black, Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West
Virginia....................................................... 1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
Wyoming........................................................ 2
WITNESSES
Crane, David, nominated to be Under Secretary of Energy.......... 4
Marootian, Jeffrey M., nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of
Energy (Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy)................ 8
Rodrigues, Gene, nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of Energy
(Electricity Delivery and Energy Reliability).................. 12
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Barrasso, Hon. John:
Opening Statement............................................ 2
New York Times article entitled ``How Producing Clean Power
Turned Out To Be a Messy Business'' by David Gelles, August
13, 2016................................................... 19
GreenBiz editorial entitled ``Lessons on Sustainability
Leadership From Jeff Immelt and The Boss'' by David Crane,
April 19, 2016............................................. 28
GreenBiz editorial entitled ``My Clean-Energy Dream'' by
David Crane, June 26, 2017................................. 31
Crane, David:
Opening Statement............................................ 4
Written Testimony............................................ 6
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 53
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
Marootian, Jeffrey M.:
Opening Statement............................................ 8
Written Testimony............................................ 10
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 67
Rodrigues, Gene:
Opening Statement............................................ 12
Written Testimony............................................ 14
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 74
CRANE, MAROOTIAN, AND RODRIGUES NOMINATIONS
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THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 2022
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:10 a.m. in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin
III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA
The Chairman. The meeting will come to order.
First of all, I want to thank everybody and your families
for being here that have come with you. You are more than
welcome to introduce them when we get to that point. I have an
opening statement to make and then I will go to my friend here,
John Barrasso, to make his opening statement too.
We are meeting today to consider three pending nominations:
the nomination of David Crane to be the Under Secretary of
Energy for Infrastructure, Jeffrey Marootian----
Mr. Marootian. Marootian, sir.
The Chairman. Marootian--okay, thank you, Jeff--to be an
Assistant Secretary of Energy for Energy Efficiency and
Renewable Energy, and Gene Rodrigues--is that close?
Mr. Rodrigues. That is correct, sir.
The Chairman. All right, okay--to be an Assistant Secretary
of Energy for Electricity Delivery and Energy Reliability.
So we welcome all of you and we welcome your families too.
Our first nominee, David Crane, has been nominated to be
the Under Secretary of Energy. By law, the Under Secretary
performs the functions and duties prescribed by the Secretary.
Secretary Granholm has given the Under Secretary the
responsibility for managing the Department of Energy's
Demonstration and Deployment programs authorized and funded
through the Energy Act of 2020 and last year's Bipartisan
Infrastructure Act. Mr. Crane brings to the job years of
experience as a business leader, having served as CEO of NRG
Energy, one of the nation's largest power companies. In this
role, he will be overseeing several demonstration programs that
I know are very important to members of this Committee,
including for carbon capture, advanced nuclear, hydrogen, and a
lot more. I look forward to hearing about how you plan to
implement these critical programs, if confirmed.
Mr. Jeffrey Marootian has been nominated to be the
Assistant Secretary of Energy for Energy Efficiency and
Renewable Energy. Jeffrey brings extensive experience managing
transportation programs, both at the U.S. Department of
Transportation as the Assistant Secretary for Administration
and as the Director of the District of Columbia's Department of
Transportation. More recently, he has served as a Special
Assistant to the President and the White House Office of
Presidential Personnel, and for the past two months, has been a
Senior Advisor in the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable
Energy. He has had extensive experience managing governmental
programs and construction projects. Though he has only recently
been involved with energy programs, I will be interested to
hear his thoughts on the Office of Energy Efficiency and
Renewable Energy and how he plans to apply his managerial
skills and experience in his new role.
Mr. Rodrigues has been nominated to be the Assistant
Secretary of Energy for Electricity Delivery and Energy
Reliability. The Assistant Secretary for Electricity oversees
the Department's Electricity Office, which is responsible for
developing new technologies to strengthen and modernize and
improve the electric grid. I expect Mr. Rodrigues knows
something about the grid, having spent 23 years working for
Southern California Edison, one of the nation's largest
investor-owned utilities. More recently, he has been the Vice
President of Market Development in the Energy and Environment
Infrastructure Division of ICF International.
All three of these positions oversee important portfolios
at the Department of Energy. They have been made even more
important with the additional authorities and funding that we
have given the Department in the Energy Act of 2020 and the
Infrastructure Act last year. I appreciate all three nominees
for being with us this morning and for their willingness to
take on and serve in these important and demanding positions. I
look forward to hearing more from each of you about your
qualifications and how you are going to discharge the
responsibilities, if confirmed.
And at this point, I will recognize Senator Barrasso for
his opening statements.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks so very much, Mr. Chairman.
First, Mr. Crane has been nominated for Under Secretary of
Energy for Infrastructure. He has been deciding where to put
dollars to work in the energy sector for decades. He has
largely focused his career on directing investment away from
energy that is available when we need it and he has directed
investment toward energy that is dependent on the weather--that
is wind and solar. Most notably, Mr. Crane spent 12 years as
CEO of NRG Energy, a leading company in the power sector. In a
2016 interview, he openly talked about how he was ``fired''
from that position. During his tenure as CEO, Mr. Crane
attempted to shift NRG's energy electric business toward wind
and solar and away from natural gas and coal. According to the
New York Times, he was fired after the company share price
dropped 63 percent in a year. Mr. Crane later explained at a
solar industry conference, ``We were taking the profits from
the coal plants and plowing them into solar development, and at
the end of the day, that got to be annoying to the shareholders
and the board of directors of the company.''
Since being fired by NRG Energy, Mr. Crane has called for
``name and shame activism'' against companies that don't
subscribe to his ideology. In a 2017 essay he wrote on the
``Green Dream,'' he argued for the power to reallocate the
energy budgets of the world's hundred biggest companies. He
would have mandated that they be carbon neutral by 2025. He
sought power over ``laggards and recalcitrants.'' He wanted to
make employees--employees--personally responsible for their
company's carbon emissions. Where did prices for consumers fit
into this daydream? Nowhere.
President Biden recently stated that he will be ``shutting
down coal plants all across America.'' Mr. Crane appears to be
marching in lockstep. American families need affordable and
reliable energy. Millions have been forced to decide whether to
fill up their tanks with gas, heat their homes, or put food on
the table. The Department of Energy's Under Secretary for
Energy Infrastructure must support affordable energy. That
requires an-all-of-the above energy strategy, and I am
concerned that Mr. Crane may be the wrong person for the job.
Mr. Marootian has been nominated to serve as the Assistant
Secretary for the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable
Energy at the Department of Energy. The Office constitutes the
largest applied energy office at the Department of Energy.
Among other duties, the office develops and implements
mandatory energy efficiency standards for household appliances,
such as dishwashers and water heaters. For just over two
months, Mr. Marootian has been a senior advisor in the Office
of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy. Before that, he
served at the White House Office of Presidential Personnel as
the Director of the Washington DC Department of Transportation,
the U.S. Department of Transportation, and at the Democratic
National Committee. His background has little to do with the
office to which he has been nominated to lead. It is unclear
why he was nominated to a position at the Department of Energy
instead of the Department of Transportation.
Mr. Rodrigues has been nominated to be Assistant Secretary
and lead the Office of Electricity at the Department of Energy.
Since 2014, he has been Vice President at the Energy
Environment and Infrastructure Practice Group, a consulting
firm. I am interested in learning more about his plan for
ensuring that the nation's electric sector is secure, reliable,
and affordable.
I look forward to hearing from the nominees today, Mr.
Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
The rules of the Committee, which apply to all nominees,
require that they be sworn in in conjunction with their
testimony. So if you all would stand and raise your right
hands?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to
give to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
[Witnesses sworn.]
The Chairman. Please be seated.
Before you begin your statement, I will ask three questions
addressed to each nominee before the Committee.
Will you be available to appear before this Committee and
other Congressional committees to represent department
positions and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
Mr. Crane. Yes.
Mr. Marootian. Yes, Chairman.
Mr. Rodrigues. Yes, I will, thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Second, are you aware of any personal holdings,
investments, or interests that could constitute a conflict of
interest or create the appearance of such a conflict, should
you be confirmed and assume the office to which you have been
nominated by the President?
Mr. Crane. No, Chairman, I am not aware.
Mr. Marootian. No.
Mr. Rodrigues. None, Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Finally, are you involved or do you have any assets held in
a blind trust?
Mr. Crane. No, I do not.
Mr. Marootian. No.
Mr. Rodrigues. No, I do not, Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you.
So let us begin with our testimonies now. We will start
with Mr. Crane, you are recognized to give your statement.
STATEMENT OF DAVID CRANE,
NOMINATED TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF ENERGY
Mr. Crane. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso, and
distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the
opportunity to testify today. Having had the benefit of a long
career, I can tell you that my path was set by the twin oil
crises of the 1970's. I believed then, as I believe now, that
the United States is the greatest, most judiciously powerful
nation on earth, and it troubled me deeply that our country
might be compromised through our dependence on foreign sources
of a single commodity. I subsequently wrote my college thesis
on our potential vulnerability of foreign dependence on sources
of other strategic materials, like magnesium or cobalt. It is a
concern and fascination with essential commodities that remains
important to me and relevant to this day.
While I have worked as a lawyer, a developer, and as an
investment banker, I spent the greater part of the first 15
years of my career developing and financing new power plant
construction. In 2003, I became CEO of NRG Energy and grew a
previously bankrupt company over the next 12 years to become
the third largest power generation company in the United
States, with 50,000 megawatts of generation. I am very proud of
the company we built at NRG. We achieved top decile safety
performance and top quartile reliability. We took care of our
people, not laying off a single employee during the Great
Recession of 2008-2009. We strove always to be a good neighbor
in the communities which hosted our facilities, and most
importantly, we took great pride in fulfilling the historic
``three imperatives'' mission of the American power industry:
safe, affordable, and reliable power to all Americans.
A few years into my tenure at NRG, it became clear to me
that a fourth imperative was emerging for our industry--
decarbonization. This was a particular challenge for our
company because, of the 50 largest American power generation
companies at the time, NRG was the second most carbon-
intensive, and our baseload coal plants, and very importantly,
the men and women who operated them, were the heart and soul of
our company. Starting in 2006, we leaned hard into a multi-
year, multi-billion-dollar strategy to revitalize our aging
generation fleet by scaling the zero-carbon elements of our
business, by building higher efficiency natural gas facilities,
and by embracing technologies that would extend the life of our
baseload coal plants by reducing their carbon intensity. We
filed the first NRC permit for a new U.S. nuclear plant since
1979, in 2007. We built a substantial utility-scale solar
business. We began the first national electric vehicle public
charging network, and we built Petra Nova, then the world's
largest carbon capture project. Many of these initiatives were
enabled in part by assistance of the U.S. Department of Energy
and catalyzed by bipartisan acts of Congress, including the
Energy Policy Act of 2005.
With respect to our existing coal fleet, we invested
billions of dollars in back-end controls, but with these plants
nearing the end of their design lives, with structural fatigue
a real risk, we closed or mothballed several of them. To this
day, these shutdowns are the most gut-wrenching decisions I
have ever made as a business executive. We made every effort to
redeploy our people at new plants across the country, but this
provides little solace to the local communities. This showed me
that even in big infrastructure, there is a very human scale
impact to what we do. I spent the better part of my career
running power companies without, in truth, having any great
technical understanding of how electricity is produced, but
what I do understand is capital formation and capital
deployment in and around the American energy sector. My career
experience living and working at the intersection of big
capital and big energy projects, in my opinion, ideally suits
me for the position you are considering me for today.
The newly created Under Secretary for Infrastructure
position has one task and one task only, and that is to
implement the provisions of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law
consistent with the intent of this Congress. I am ready,
willing, and able to serve in that role, and I hope to perform
this function in a manner that embodies the classic Midwest
values which my parents taught me to hold dear: decency,
fairness, and humility. I hope my service, if confirmed, will
validate the trust that the President of the United States and
Secretary Granholm have placed in me and that it will make my
family proud. And most of all, I want to thank my wife,
Isabella, and my five children, Cason, David, Bella, Oliver,
and Christopher, two of whom are sitting behind me, for
supporting me in this disruptive step in our lives and for
allowing me to follow the call to public service.
Thank you for your consideration of me today. I look
forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Crane follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Crane.
Now we are going to hear from Jeffrey. We are on a first
name basis here, Jeff.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Marootian. I will take it, Senator.
STATEMENT OF JEFFREY M. MAROOTIAN, NOMINATED TO BE AN ASSISTANT
SECRETARY OF ENERGY (ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND RENEWABLE ENERGY)
Mr. Marootian. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso,
and distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the
privilege to testify before you today and for considering my
nomination to serve as the Assistant Secretary for Energy
Efficiency and Renewable Energy at the Department of Energy. I
am humbled by the confidence that President Biden and Secretary
Granholm have placed in me with this nomination, and I am
enthusiastic about the opportunity, if confirmed, to work with
this Committee, with my colleagues in the Biden-Harris
Administration, and with the truly phenomenal team of dedicated
professionals in the Department of Energy's Office of Energy
Efficiency and Renewable Energy.
My great grandparents came to this country from Armenia in
search of freedom and opportunity. They settled in the New York
and New Jersey area, where they proudly pursued the American
dream. My parents and grandparents instilled in me the
importance of not only loving our country, but demonstrating
that commitment through civic participation and public service.
My grandmother, a New York City public schoolteacher and my
grandfather, a Navy veteran, exemplified that commitment,
teaching me that the most important thing that I could do was
to contribute to society through service to my community. It
was that example that not only led me to pursue a path in
government, but to find the values that I still carry with me
to this day as I sit in front of this Committee. I would also
be remiss if I also did not acknowledge that I am here because
of the many LGBTQ+ pioneers that have served in public roles
before me. It is because of their leadership and courage that
barriers have been broken and I am able to proudly serve my
country.
I have had the distinct honor of serving in two
Presidential administrations, and at the local government level
here in our nation's capital. I am grateful to former
Transportation Secretary Anthony Fox, for empowering me to
serve as an Assistant Secretary and Chief Sustainability
Officer during the Obama-Biden Administration, and to DC Mayor
Muriel Bowser for entrusting me to lead the city's
transportation department. In these roles, I was tasked with
overseeing cross-cutting public infrastructure projects,
partnering with industry to deploy new and emerging sustainable
technologies, and working to reduce carbon emissions across
multiple sectors. While overseeing the District Department of
Transportation, I focused on taking steps to lower costs for
individuals and families, creating jobs and economic
opportunity, fostering innovation, and improving the quality of
our environment. While serving as the Assistant Secretary for
Administration and Chief Sustainability Officer at the United
States Department of Transportation, I oversaw the effort to
improve energy efficiency and reduce waste throughout the
agency's public buildings and facilities portfolio. I also
managed the administration of research and development grants
and took steps to improve upon the Department's use of
renewable power.
Having served for much of my career at the state and local
level, I am keenly aware of the importance of providing high-
quality technical assistance while taking a collaborative
approach when working with state and municipal officials. I am
also deeply committed to ensuring transparency, being a good
steward of public dollars, and being responsive to the issues
and concerns brought forward by industry leaders and advocates.
If confirmed, I look forward to bringing these principles and
lessons learned--and the values of public service instilled in
me by my family--to the Office of Energy Efficiency and
Renewable Energy. Thanks in large part to the leadership and
work of this Committee, the Department has more resources than
ever before to create jobs, spur innovation, and improve
communities across this country. This historic investment will
help the state-of-the-art American-led technology and
innovation in our manufacturing sector, and improve our energy
security and independence, which is critical now more than
ever. It will support the Department's efforts to fund research
in a wide array of renewable technologies with the goal of
increasing grid reliability and reducing monthly costs for
everyday Americans. And these resources will strengthen the
Agency's ability to advance technologies such as battery
storage, biofuels, and hydrogen fuel cells that will continue
to strengthen America's competitive edge.
If confirmed, I look forward to working with my colleagues
at the Department of Energy and with this Committee to continue
to further cost-effective clean energy solutions while making
our energy more secure, creating jobs, and catalyzing
investment in the American economy. Thank you again for the
opportunity to testify before you today. I look forward to
answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Marootian follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you.
And now, we will hear from Mr. Rodrigues.
STATEMENT OF GENE RODRIGUES, NOMINATED TO BE AN ASSISTANT
SECRETARY OF ENERGY (ELECTRICITY DELIVERY AND ENERGY
RELIABILITY)
Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you.
Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso, and
distinguished members of the Committee, I thank you for the
opportunity to appear before you today. I feel both blessed and
humbled to have been nominated to serve as Assistant Secretary
of Energy for the Office of Electricity. My father served our
nation as a career soldier and a combat veteran and my mother
left the country of her birth to become a naturalized U.S.
citizen. So I fully recognize that the calling to serve our
country is not just a civic duty, it is a high honor and a
profound privilege. If my parents were still with us today, I
know they would be very proud, indeed, that their son aspires
to serve our nation in such an important role. I will focus my
testimony today on just two key points. First, how the last 32
years of my professional career have prepared me for the
responsibility of leading the Office of Electricity, and
second, if confirmed, how I would ensure that the Office
fulfills its critical mission of providing our nation with a
secure, reliable, and resilient energy delivery system that
provides every American with access to abundant and affordable
energy to power our homes, our businesses, and our economy.
My life's work within the energy industry has been focused
on matters directly related to the mission of the Office of
Electricity. For example, during my nearly 24 years at one of
our nation's largest electric utilities, I oversaw customer
programs that provided resource adequacy, customer
affordability, emissions reduction, economic development, and
system reliability, including research, development, and
demonstration activities on emerging technologies. Following my
time inside the utility, I spent the next eight years in
consulting, where I shared my lessons learned with other
utilities, with local governments, and with state and federal
agencies, including the Department of Energy. And all
throughout my three decades in the energy field, I have
accepted and embraced leadership roles within organizations
committed to meeting the energy, economic, and environmental
challenges of today, while preparing our industry for the
future. Each of these experiences, and many more that I will
not have time to touch upon today, have indelibly ingrained in
me the conviction that for us to be truly effective in
navigating the transformational opportunities and the
unprecedented challenges of developing a 21st century grid, it
will take much more than just the expertise of any one person,
or any one agency, for that matter.
As our energy network becomes increasingly complex and
dynamic, we must ensure reliability, resiliency, and security
across the entirety of the energy system. And while there are
tremendous opportunities for technological advancement, these
will be accompanied by uncertainty and vulnerability that must
be addressed with equal consideration and urgency. To lead the
way, we must now think, plan, invent, invest, and operate in
ways that are more collaborative, more inclusive, and more
coordinated than ever before. This is why I am grateful to have
earned the trust of a great many of the industry stakeholders,
who will play an indispensable role in the modernization and
decarbonization of America's grid. It has been my privilege to
work alongside industry leaders from the Edison Electric
Institute, the National Association of State Energy Officials,
the National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners,
the Smart Energy Power Alliance, and the GridWise Alliance,
among many, many others. These non-partisan organizations know
me well and have supported my nomination for this important
role. Similarly, the bipartisan Alliance to Save Energy
recently honored me with their Charles H. Percy Award for
Public Service, which celebrates reaching across the political
aisle to accomplish results for the benefit of all Americans.
In closing, I commit to you that if I am fortunate enough
to be granted the responsibility of leading the Office of
Electricity, we will remain clear-eyed and pragmatic about
assessing the challenges ahead, and we will engage industry and
innovation stakeholders alike to work side-by-side with us as
we develop, demonstrate, and deploy solutions for America's
energy delivery network. And along every step of the way, we
will never lose sight of the imperative to create and sustain
good-paying jobs that serve the American people. I look forward
to answering any questions you may have, and if confirmed, to
working closely with each of you as we make progress on our
shared mission of fostering the continued technological,
economic, and environmental leadership of our great nation.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Rodrigues follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Let me thank all three of you for your
testimonies and presentations. If anyone would like to
introduce their family members with them, they are more than
welcome to do so.
Mr. Crane, do you want to start with yours. I think you
have a few more.
Mr. Crane. I would like to introduce my cousin, Laura, my
beloved niece, Molly, and my sons, Cason and Oliver. I just
wanted to make sure they were sitting in that order.
[Laughter.]
The Chairman. Welcome.
Jeffrey.
Mr. Marootian. My family is watching from home today.
The Chairman. Well, thank them.
And Mr. Rodrigues.
Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you, Chairman.
I would like to introduce my wonderful wife, Becky, who is
sitting here behind me today.
The Chairman. It is good to have all of you here.
We will start with the questions.
My first question is pretty simple, yes or no. Do any of
you believe that the United States of America can be energy-
independent within the next ten years without a robust fossil--
clean fossil energy program?
Mr. Crane. No, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Marootian. No, sir.
Mr. Rodrigues. No, sir, I do not.
The Chairman. Mr. Crane, I support an all-of-the-above
approach to energy policy and believe in order to ensure energy
security that we cannot eliminate fossil, and I am glad to hear
you all feel the same way. We have to focus on the cleanest way
possible to decarbonize. We understand that. The Energy Act of
2020 did that. It helped us. The bipartisan Infrastructure
Investment and Jobs Act and the Inflation Reduction Act that we
just passed are investing heavily in carbon capture utilization
and storage. This included authorizing and funding CCUS
demonstration projects, with two required on coal-fired power
plants.
In your role, as Under Secretary, Mr. Crane, you will be
tasked with implementing these programs. You were previously
quoted as saying, ``the coal industry has missed the boat on
its opportunity to decarbonize.'' Can you explain your views on
coal and CCUS in a domestic and global energy mix now and in
the future?
Mr. Crane. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman.
Like you, I believe in all-of-the-above. I believe that
domestic coal is a fundamental part of the energy mix of the
United States. I applaud the actions that Congress has taken,
particularly the carbon capture utilization and sequestration.
The 45Q, and I can tell you from being in the private sector,
that those provisions are catalyzing a response that I think is
going to be very good for the industry. And finally and most
importantly, and directly in answer to your question, without
qualification, without exception, I can tell you that I will
implement the coal-related provisions of these bills with the
same vigor that I implement every other provision.
The Chairman. That was the final part of my question. So
you got ahead of me on that one, and I appreciate it, because I
was going to say, will you commit to carrying out the CCUS?
Mr. Crane. Absolutely.
The Chairman. Okay.
And I have another one for you, sir.
You are currently overseeing the implementation of $9.5
billion in funding to supercharge the hydrogen economy,
including $8 billion for several hydrogen hubs. As you know,
the Infrastructure Law requires at least two of the hubs to be
located in major natural gas producing regions, such as the
Appalachia, in West Virginia. So we are very excited for this
program to be put to good use. It also requires at least one of
the hubs to demonstrate clean hydrogen derived from fossil
fuels. So, although the Department of Energy has not selected
the winners for hub funding yet, can you talk about the
hydrogen hub investment and how it has changed the landscape in
terms of the U.S. leadership in hydrogen around the world?
Mr. Crane. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I would love to do that. As
you said, the hydrogen solicitation is underway.
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Crane. And the first thing I can tell you is that there
has been an extremely enthusiastic response from across the
country and you know, as you pointed out, the bill requirements
require a geographic diversification, fuel input
diversification, and end-use diversification and we are
confident that we will get proposals from around the country
that will fit all those needs.
The Chairman. What type of activity are you seeing coming
in from the world? I am hearing so much about what is going on
because we are committed.
Mr. Crane. As it happened, I was recently with some old
friends who are involved in hydrogen development in Europe,
where the European Union and the UK are being active, and one
of the things that they are saying is that multinational
companies are actually moving their hydrogen programs to North
America because of the actions of this Congress.
The Chairman. Let me say--we are concerned about blue
hydrogen also which comes from gas, and how you all are
implementing that, and are you committed to, as required by
law, to work that one, too? The green comes from renewables, as
we know, but the blue can be green from gas if it is carbon
that is sequestered, correct?
Mr. Crane. We are absolutely committed to the blue and the
green provisions, and once the hydrogen gets into the system,
as you know, a lot of it is about the infrastructure that comes
downstream from the production of the hydrogen. So again, we
will faithfully implement every provision of the----
The Chairman. The thing I am so excited about hydrogen was
this, and the reason I have been doubling down on everything on
hydrogen is because we are not--and we would never have to be--
dependent on foreign supply chains for energy because we can
produce all the hydrogen--clean hydrogen--that we ever need in
our country.
With that, Jeffrey, I am going to turn it to you. You have
a background in transportation policy, which is covered by the
office you have been nominated to lead, but not many of the
other programs central to the office, such as renewable
technologies and energy efficiency. Can you talk about your
experience and do you believe that is a hindrance to you? Do we
have you in the right match, because I know you have a lot of
skills?
Mr. Marootian. Thank you so much, Senator Manchin, for that
question. I believe I was selected for this role because of my
experience leading large organizations. The District Department
of Transportation is a very large organization--about 1,100
people. For scale, the EERE Office is just slightly less than
that. And as you noted, the transportation components of DOE
fit within the EERE portfolio. In fact, about a third of the
entire portfolio is dedicated to sustainable transportation.
The newly established joint Office of Energy and Transportation
is within EERE as well, and broadly, there are a number of
programs across the energy efficiency and renewable power
pillars that require management in collaboration within DOE
with the newly established Under Secretary's Office and across
government agencies. Those are the skills that I bring to the
table and that is why I believe I was nominated for this role,
and if confirmed, I look forward to working with this Committee
to implement a wide array of programs.
The Chairman. With that, I will turn to Senator Barrasso
for his questions.
Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate
you doing this.
And Mr. Crane, if confirmed, you are going to have
responsibility for over $70 billion in appropriations, and also
have the authority to loan another $250 billion. This is not
the Department of Energy's money. This money belongs to the
American people. So when CEO of NRG, you were entrusted with
investors' money. According to the New York Times, and I have
the article here from August of 2016 that, Mr. Chairman, I am
going to ask to be presented as part of the record.
The Chairman. Without objection, sir.
[New York Times article from August 2016 follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Barrasso. So you lost 63 percent of NRG's value in
a year and you were fired. One financial analyst told the
paper, ``We all believe in renewables, but investors lost
confidence in the management team.'' So in light of your
record, why should we believe that you are going to manage the
American people's money better than you managed NRG's money?
Mr. Crane. Thank you for the question, Senator.
I think on the topic of NRG share price, NRG share price
actually traded principally in close correlation with natural
gas prices, and the 63 percent reduction you are talking about
was actually consistent with other companies in the industry. I
think if you look at my track record in terms of investment in
big projects, you know, my background in project financing, if
you look at things like the credit rating of NRG, no one ever
lost, you know, a dime in terms of investing in NRG debt. So I
would say that the type of big projects that you say--because
it is a huge amount of money that you are talking about, and it
is American taxpayer money--and so I take the responsibility
very seriously and I believe that I have the skill set and the
sense of prudency to be a careful steward of that money.
Senator Barrasso. So in a 2016 GreenBiz op-ed, you wrote,
``The sustainability movement will have to become more
aggressive if it is to affect change through business
leadership.'' You explain, your quote, ``Enlightened companies
will need to withhold their business from companies that do not
invest in the future but are content to seek competitive
advantage in consumptive business as usual.''
[The editorial referred to follows, along with an
additional editorial submitted for the record:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Barrasso. So six years have passed since you wrote
the op-ed. So the question is, are today's enlightened
companies, which I imagine today would be described as ``woke''
companies, are the woke companies, as you define them,
sufficiently withholding their business from those who are not
enlightened?
Mr. Crane. I think the point of that article has to do with
decarbonization specifically, and it is not saying that all
companies in the future have to just buy renewables.
Decarbonized fossil fuels, I think, is something that most
companies that are trying to do something about climate change,
you know, they will buy power from decarbonized fossil fuels.
So I don't know the concept of wokeness as it applies to the
energy industry. It is not one that I am that familiar with,
but I do believe that the provisions of the bill that I am
supposed to implement, which will provide decarbonized fossil
fuel alongside other renewables, including new renewables like
geothermal, I think it provides a future that energy consumers
will be willing to buy into.
Senator Barrasso. That is a debatable point of what energy
companies or energy consumers will be able to buy or willing to
buy because my thought is, you know, companies should
prioritize reliability and affordability for their users. So
you know, should companies prioritize reliability and
affordability when producing energy, even if it means
purchasing energy derived from coal or natural gas or oil?
Mr. Crane. Ranking Member, safe, affordable, reliable
power, the three imperatives of this industry, have not changed
in the 21st century. You are completely correct in that regard.
We have just added this imperative of decarbonization. So I
agree with you. We cannot compromise safe, affordable, and
reliable power to deliver to all Americans.
Senator Barrasso. Mr. Marootian, if I could, on building
codes--building energy codes are state laws. The Office of
Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy plays a role in the
development of building codes, along with, you know, private
entities. The Department of Energy has no authority--none--to
set mandatory nationwide building codes. Do you believe the
Department of Energy should have authority to establish
mandatory nationwide building energy codes?
Mr. Marootian. Senator Barrasso, thank you for that
question. I believe, first and foremost, in following the
intent of the law, and also believe, further, in state
sovereignty and states' ability to make those types of laws
that are best for citizens of those states. And if confirmed,
those would be the principles that I would apply.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
And now we will go to Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
Mr. Crane, the Office of Clean Energy Demonstrations (OCED)
was tasked with funding large-scale demonstrations under the
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law to de-risk technologies for
industry. So I want to ask you just what metrics you are going
to be thinking about to ensure that those large demonstrations
are truly addressing the key risks to be able to move those
things towards adoption/deployment scale.
Mr. Crane. Senator Heinrich, thank you for the question.
And your characterization is right, it is mainly big projects
within OCED, although we have the billion dollars for rural and
remote smaller projects, but on the big projects, I think,
actually the genius of the law is this hub concept, which I
think, you know, could be described more as an ecosystem. And
one of the things that we are trying to do is, you know,
sometimes in the past with DOE projects, we talk about how they
had been ``demonstrate and dismantle,'' and what we really are
looking for is ``demonstrate and deploy.'' And I think a
particular area of focus for me, because, you know, the DOE's
technical strength has almost no limit--but more on the
commercial offtake. I mean, these projects not only have to
operate within their ring fence, but they have to be
commercially sound.
So I would tell you that that is the singular thing I am
focused on, particularly when you look at something like
hydrogen, where we are going to ramp-up hydrogen production,
but we have to look at the demand for hydrogen at the same
time.
Senator Heinrich. And I think, you know, it is not just
about the technical aptitude, but then being demonstrated in a
way to bankability that industry takes off with these things,
right? I mean, that is really the 1-2-3-4 approach to getting
this stuff to scale, is showing that it really works and then
that you can build it in a way that is profitable. Then once
the Loan Program Office, for example, works with someone to do
that step, then the banks and other financial sector players
will jump in and these things will be off and running on their
own.
Mr. Crane. Senator, that is an extremely insightful point.
And in fact, we are standing up a small team right now. What I
am very concerned about is, the Department of Energy has a lot
of negotiating in these public-private partnerships, but what
we cannot do is structure projects that the private sector
would never replicate.
Senator Heinrich. Right.
Mr. Crane. So I would tell you in my two months at the DOE,
the word replicability has passed my lips more often than it
has in my previous 63 years. So that is one of our mantras.
Senator Heinrich. So let's shift specifically to the
industrial sector, and how should we be thinking about
infrastructure planning and investment to be able to
decarbonize the next frontier, which is really heavy industry--
cement, glass, aluminum, steel, all of those industrial
processes that rely on high heat.
Mr. Crane. The decarbonization of industry, and that is, of
course--I think we now have a total of $5.8 billion for that--
is just one of the most exciting things that we have on our
plate. And we have been looking at seven hard-to-abate sectors,
and based on my experience--I was on the board of a steel
company before I resigned to come to DOE--is that the key is to
go to the heart of the process, where a lot of heavy industry
thinks that there is no zero-carbon solution to create the
process heat that is at the center, the core of what they do.
And I think with the money that has been authorized from
Congress, we can put out demonstration projects that can show
that you can create very high temperatures--1,000 to 1,400
degrees Centigrade heat, you know, without putting carbon into
the atmosphere.
Senator Heinrich. I want to shift to you, Mr. Marootian.
EERE has an opportunity to exercise its standard-setting
authority in a way that really advances grid efficiency and
clears the way for rapid clean energy development. And the
Department, for instance, could choose to establish an
efficiency standard for electricity conductors that promotes
the use of modern and efficient advanced conductors across the
grid. Reconductoring existing transmission with advanced
conductors can double corridor capacity. It can lower line
losses. Customers can experience significant savings all
without the decades-long planning challenges that the Chairman
is all too familiar with. Would you work with my office to
evaluate how DOE can promote the deployment of advanced
conductors as one of our transmission solutions?
Mr. Marootian. Senator Heinrich, I would be delighted to.
Senator Heinrich. Chairman, I have four seconds left, so I
am going to give back all that time.
[Laughter.]
The Chairman. Hickenlooper will probably use it when he
gets time.
So now we have Senator Cassidy.
Senator Cassidy. First, Mr. Crane, the most important
question, is your wife, Miss de la Houssaye, by maiden name,
from Louisiana? That is a very common Louisiana name, although
Isabella is not.
Mr. Crane. Yes, my wife is Isabella de la Houssaye from
Crowley, Louisiana.
Senator Cassidy. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. You got my vote.
Mr. Crane. And her mother was the Republican mayor of
Crowley, Louisiana for eight years.
Senator Cassidy. That is wonderful. And is she related to
the jockey that did so well?
Mr. Crane. Not that I know of, but you know----
Senator Cassidy. You ought to claim him.
Listen, on a more serious note, again, thank you all for
your participation. Mr. Crane, when negotiating the Bipartisan
Infrastructure bill, we established a compromise, and that was
bipartisan. It was really bipartisan, and it kind of reflected
that which folks from the left and the right would agree to.
And on clean hydrogen, we struck the agreement as two kilograms
of carbon dioxide equivalent per kilogram of hydrogen produced
at the point of production--at the point of production. And so
this was done to ensure we made progress in lowering the
emissions, but to make sure that only emissions within the
fence line were being considered. Now, one of the frustrating
things is, DOE has released draft guidance defining clean
hydrogen based upon the full life cycle. That is clearly a
deviation from what the infrastructure bill said, which means
they are going to get sued, which means all of this is going to
be delayed.
I mean, this is so dad-gum predictable, and I hate it when
agencies defy Congress. This is literally defying Congress. So
that said, and because of that suit, this is going to have a
delayed deployment, I mean, just period. It is going to have a
delayed deployment. So can you explain to me in the role that
you are nominated to fill, how you are going to ensure that the
Department of Energy actually pays attention to the letter, as
clearly written in the law, and implements requirements as
written, and will you commit to doing so?
Mr. Crane. Thank you, Senator, for the question. And to
answer your question directly, I will absolutely commit to look
into the matter you are talking about and to do everything to
make sure that no roadblocks, you know, develop in terms of the
prompt implementation of the hydrogen legislation across the
full range of permitting and all the questions that you are
talking about. I absolutely commit to do that.
Senator Cassidy. And philosophically, do you feel as if--
now this is a philosophical question and this is independent
because it just helps me--do you think the Administration is,
because some of your previous writings which suggest you might
be sympathetic to this, would be justified in considering the
full life cycle as opposed to just the fence line? What are
your thoughts on that?
Mr. Crane. Senator, the full life-cycle analysis, as far as
I understand, is not the dispositive criteria. It is one factor
that is being looked at. But it is very complicated to figure
out when you are doing a full lifestyle, you know, evaluation
of basically any human activity, it is very hard to know where
you draw the line. So I don't necessarily believe it's not
something to be looked at, but again, in my two months at the
DOE, I have not actually sensed any desire to flout the will of
Congress. In fact, particularly with the hydrogen provisions, I
have been in meetings where members of the Department of Energy
are poring over every word in the legislation to make sure that
the FOAs that go out, you know, meet the intent of Congress.
And I commit to you that we will continue to play right down
the middle of the fairway, as Congress intends.
Senator Cassidy. Next, if you will--thank you for that--the
United States, if you look at oil brought to the coast of
Louisiana for refining, the oil with the lowest life-cycle
emissions is that which comes off the Gulf of Mexico--the Outer
Continental Shelf. And yet, this Administration has had a
reluctance to lease and to permit development of U.S. resources
on federal lands. And instead, we are bringing in oil and gas
from--at least oil--from other countries, which actually has a
higher life-cycle greenhouse gas emission profile. Now, this is
incredibly frustrating for an Administration which claims that
it wants to lower emissions--to favor products from other
countries, by the way the jobs are going there as well.
So what are your thoughts? Does it make sense that the
United States is prejudiced against developing resources in
North America, creating American jobs and having a lower life-
cycle emission profile or not, I guess?
Mr. Crane. Senator, I support the proposition that domestic
production is always going to be favored to, you know, any
foreign source of oil or any other strategic commodity or
strategic mineral. I am not personally familiar with the carbon
footprint of oil from different parts of the world, but I
accept what you are saying, but I always would prefer domestic
over foreign. Yes, I would say that is not part of my remit,
you know, in the Under Secretary position, the specific issue
of oil and gas drilling on federal lands is not part of my----
Senator Cassidy. I understand that. It gives me a sense of
your philosophy.
Mr. Crane. I favor domestic production over foreign. I
cannot go into too much----
Senator Cassidy. I understand.
Mr. Crane. I am from the electricity side of the business,
not the oil and gas.
Senator Cassidy. Yes, but your writings suggest that your
vision is greater. So with that, I yield back and thank you and
I thank Ms. de la Houssaye.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Welcome to the all of the nominees and your families. To
ensure the fitness of nominees for the positions that they have
been nominated to, I ask the following two questions of all
nominees before any of the committees on which I sit. So I will
ask the questions of you.
Since you became a legal adult, have you ever made unwanted
requests for a sexual favor or committed any verbal or physical
harassment or assault of a sexual nature? We will start with
you, Mr. Crane and just go right down the line.
Mr. Crane. No, I have not, Senator.
Mr. Marootian. No, Senator, I have not.
Mr. Rodrigues. No, Senator, I have not.
Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered
into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
Mr. Crane. Absolutely not, Senator.
Mr. Marootian. No, Senator, I have not.
Mr. Rodrigues. No, Senator, I have not.
Senator Hirono. Mr. Marootian, Hawaii has set an ambitious
standard of 100 percent renewable power by 2045, and Hawaii has
reached nearly 40 percent renewable power, but our state still
relies on oil for most of its electricity. Families and
businesses in Hawaii have had to watch their power bills go up
along with the global price of oil. Solar power costs have
fallen by over 80 percent in the last decade alone, and
renewable power is now the cheapest source of power in most
places. That does not even count the public health benefits
from reducing air pollution or reducing the costly impacts of
climate change. What do you think are the biggest challenges to
bringing low-cost renewable power to people, and what will you
do to address those challenges if you are confirmed?
Mr. Marootian. Thank you so much, Senator Hirono, for that
question, and I think that is the exact right question that we
should be asking right now. The team at EERE is focused on
doing cutting-edge R&D work to help drive costs of all of these
technologies down even further, and the important thing that we
need to do is look to scale these technologies, to bring them
to the grid and to microgrids in some places so that we can
really expand the accessibility. And that is the work that the
Department is doing at EERE in conjunction with the
demonstration and deployment side of the agency that is being
stood up underneath the Under Secretary's office. There is a
real opportunity for us to take these kinds of technologies
from the lab to the street, as Secretary Granholm has said. And
if confirmed, I look forward to doing that.
Senator Hirono. Do you think we are doing enough to come up
with storage, battery storage for intermittent power?
Mr. Marootian. Thank you for that question, Senator.
Battery storage is something that the Department is very
keenly focused on. There are a number of technological
applications that are currently being evaluated in partnering
with industry to help advance battery storage. That is the key.
That is the missing piece for really bringing some of these
technologies to scale. And so I certainly look forward to
working with my colleagues, if confirmed, on how to advance
battery storage.
Senator Hirono. Thank you.
Mr. Crane, I have consistently supported DOE's efforts to
not just research clean energy technologies, but to also help
demonstrate and deploy those technologies to help ensure that
people benefit from energy that is cleaner, more reliable, and
more affordable. Given the historic funding that Congress has
given DOE in the last two years to advance clean energy, I
support Secretary Granholm's decision to establish the Under
Secretary of Energy for Infrastructure and your nomination. In
addition to your other work, you have served on the board of
the Elemental Excelerator--I should know this, after all, they
are in Hawaii--a non-profit in Hawaii that is an incubator for
clean energy and climate technology startup companies. So I am
really glad that just as my colleague was establishing ties to
Louisiana, you have ties to Hawaii.
What more should DOE do to help deploy new energy
technologies to give people cleaner and more affordable energy
in their homes, vehicles, and businesses?
Mr. Crane. Thank you, Senator, for the question, and thank
you for your support for innovation in this space. And I just
want to tell you that amongst the many things I had to stop
doing in order to take this job, stepping down from the board
of the Elemental Excelerator in Hawaii was one of the most
painful decisions. I wept over that because the Excelerator is
significantly funded by the Department of the Navy.
Senator Hirono. Yes.
Mr. Crane. The concept of it is tremendous, to take these
early emerging technologies and demonstrate them, and using an
island grid like you have in Hawaii, it is just one of the most
remarkable things out there. So after that advertisement for
the Elemental Excelerator, I would actually say to you, the
direct answer to your question is, I think you and Congress
have done everything that you need to do. It is up to us at the
Department of Energy to implement with the tools that you have
put in our hands. And so that is the most direct answer I would
give.
Oh, well, actually, I should say, I would love to see some
sort of permitting bill pass because, again, it is--we have all
this money and what I am very concerned about is we see these
meritorious projects, they are ready to go and then they get
hung up on a particular permit. So if there is one thing I
could ask of this Congress, it would be progress on the
permitting front.
Senator Hirono. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, my time is up so I will submit my questions
for Mr. Marootian and for Mr. Rodrigues for the record.
The Chairman. Thank you for that last comment, Mr. Crane.
We really appreciate your support for the permitting. It is the
key to getting everything. If not, there is going to be a lot
of money stranded that shouldn't be.
With that, we are so grateful that Senator Hoeven is with
us today. Thank you, Senator. It is good to see you.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is good to see
you, my friend. Thank you.
Mr. Crane, thanks for coming in yesterday and visiting. As
we discussed, we have carbon capture projects underway in North
Dakota--not only a coal gasification plant, but two of our
large coal-fired electric plants. Also, I didn't mention, at
least while I was there--maybe you discussed with some of my
staff members, but we also have biofuel plants that are
implementing. One already has. Another one is in process.
So talk to me about how the programs you have, how you
intend to deploy them to help us make this happen, not only in
our state, but across the country. And there are three
components to that that we have worked very hard to pass, and
certainly the Chairman has been very involved with that and
gets big thanks for it, and obviously, it's committee, but that
includes not only front-end funding to help with the technology
that has to be put on these plants to capture the
CO2 so that it can sequestered, also the loan
guarantees. And then, of course, the 45Q tax credit, which is
really overseen by Treasury, but obviously has to be
coordinated with the other programs. So in your job, assure me
that you are going to help deploy those programs so that we can
accomplish this carbon capture.
Mr. Crane. Thank you, Senator, for the question, and for
the time yesterday. I cannot only assure you that I will
implement those programs, I will implement them with great
enthusiasm, and as I know you know that we have already put out
the first FOA for carbon capture, which is more for FEED
studies. We are going to be putting out a second one within the
next few months for the large-scale projects and yes, I will
implement them enthusiastically. And as we discussed, 45Q is a
huge incentive and you know, I have taken back your concerns
about overlapping programs to see just what the rules are, but
I am, you know, 45Q can be done alongside of our money. It is
just the one thing that cannot be done by statute is the loan
and the grant in the same project. But even that, it is a
question of how you define the project.
Senator Hoeven. Right. And you are committed to working on
that with----
Mr. Crane. I am absolutely committed to working with you
and your staff on that.
Senator Hoeven. Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Rodrigues, talk to me a little bit about baseload in
terms of grid reliability. Obviously, coal-fired electric
provides a lot of that baseload now. That is why we are working
so ardently on the carbon capture piece. And as Mr. Crane and I
discussed yesterday, this is not the first rodeo. We have done
this with SOX. We have done this with
NOX. We have done this with mercury, okay? So now we
are going to do it with CO2, but we need that
baseload electricity. What is your role in making sure that we
keep baseload electricity as part of the mix to stabilize the
grid?
Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you very much, Senator Hoeven and
thank you for the opportunity to meet with your staff
yesterday. We had a tremendous conversation. I will say that
your question calls out something that is critically important
for the American people to understand, and that is the
complexity of the energy system. To ensure reliability, which
is job number one for the Department of Energy, along with
affordability, security, and other attributes, we need a mix of
resources that can be used in different ways. Baseload energy
is critically important. And that is why, I think, the work of
the Department looking to find ways to do carbon capture
utilization and storage is one of the most important
breakthroughs that we can work on today. Within the
jurisdiction of the Office of Electricity, what we will be
doing is exactly this, ensuring that each and every state's
policy decisions, policy preferences, and decisions made about
the resource mix that they want to have to serve their
constituents, their citizens, that the grid is enabled to take
those resources and affordably get them to the American people
and do so reliably and safely as well.
Senator Hoeven. And natural gas has a continued important
role in that effort as well?
Mr. Rodrigues. I absolutely believe that is the case, sir.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
Mr. Marootian, the EERC--Energy and Environmental Research
Center at the University of North Dakota, are you familiar with
it?
Mr. Marootian. No, sir, I am not.
Senator Hoeven. Okay. Well, they have for a long time
worked with DOE, particularly on the fossil side, but they have
also been trying to establish a relationship with DOE on the
renewable piece. How would you recommend that we go about
building that relationship with you, a cooperative agreement
type of relationship with the EERE?
Mr. Marootian. Senator Hoeven, I certainly would welcome
the opportunity to speak with representatives and establish
that open line of communication. I think the Department--EERE's
ability to provide technical assistance to states, to
universities, to research centers, is key. It is something I am
deeply committed to and look forward to working with your
office, if confirmed, on that.
Senator Hoeven. Yes, and I would invite you to come to the
EERC and see what they can offer because it is tremendous, and
I would actually invite all three of you to come to North
Dakota and we will be following up with you on that. You might
want to come in the summer, but it is up to you, but we
definitely want to invite you and get you out there.
Mr. Marootian. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, sir.
And now, we have Senator Hickenlooper.
Senator Hickenlooper. Great, thank you, Mr. Chair and
thanks to all three of you for your commitment to public
service and being willing to go through this kind of
interrogation. Let me start with Mr. Marootian. I knew a
Marootian when I was younger, but with a name like
Hickenlooper, I can discuss phonetics.
Historically, DOE's national labs such as NREL and Golden,
which you will oversee if confirmed, have in many ways been our
secret weapon in developing new energy innovations and bringing
them to market. Going forward, we are going to increasingly
rely on these labs to guide us to some of the energy questions
with this big transition. The transition--obviously, the
importance of getting this mapped out and together is very,
very important, whether it is transition build-out to simply
operating a system that is on a, you know, diverse mix of
generation sources. So how do you envision using DOE labs and
NREL, in particular, to help inform U.S. industry and
policymakers about these questions?
Mr. Marootian. Thank you for the question, Senator
Hickenlooper, and thank you for your time last month, meeting
with me. I agree with you. The national labs--NREL and all the
17 labs are the agency's crown jewels. They have the tremendous
capacity and potential to do really cutting-edge advanced
research and development across the board, and they have a
number of really solid partnerships already. I think it is
critical that we expand those partnerships with industry and
with consumers. And I think about, for example, the Clean
Energy Cybersecurity Accelerator as a great industry
partnership that is developing real-world, real-time solutions
for industry, and I think about things like the SolarAPP, which
is a technology that is consumer-facing that helps streamline
permitting processes for customers who are looking for solar.
So I think those are the kinds of partnerships that I would
love to work on expanding, if confirmed. I have had the
opportunity to meet with Dr. Keller several times, along with
several of the other lab directors and very much look forward
to working with them.
Senator Hickenlooper. Terrific, thank you.
Mr. Rodrigues, when we spoke we briefly discussed how
electric vehicles might be able to help out in the power sector
as we incorporate more variable generation on our grid,
especially in things like vehicle-to-grid applications. We have
a Bidirectional Act that you are aware of and would promote
these kinds of innovations. With the right incentives in place
it would seem that we could align the self-interest of vehicle
owners, buses, grid operators, and utilities themselves. If you
are confirmed, what role do you see for the Office of
Electricity in helping to identify and promote the policies and
standards and rate structures, you know, all this stuff to
really deploy these promising technologies and innovations?
Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you for that question, Senator, and
thank you for taking the time to meet with me. I enjoyed our
conversation and I hope we will be able to continue it further.
I am absolutely, tremendously excited about the opportunity
to take advantage of vehicle-to-grid, vehicle-to-everything,
all the grid-edge sources out there. As we look around us right
now outside these windows, the resource that we have the
ability to tap into, as soon as we technologically just break
through a couple more engineering barriers, it is grid-edge
resources and vehicle-to-grid is one of those. As we discussed
the other day, if and to the extent the grid is able to accept
these resources, to integrate them, then we will have ways to
increase reliability and increase affordability.
May I make one last point on that?
Senator Hickenlooper. Sure.
Mr. Rodrigues. The Office of Electricity will be focused on
those sorts of technologies and advancements that need to be
made to ensure that the visibility of these resources, the
controllability of these resources, and as you point out, the
very important policies are in place to ensure that consumers
recognize the value of being a beneficial part of how we
control our grid.
Senator Hickenlooper. Absolutely, and that won't be easy.
Mr. Crane, I saved the best for. As a recovering geologist,
and I think according to Mark Kelly I am the only scientist in
the Senate. He claims he's only an engineer. I would debate
that, but I cannot help but ask your perspective on this
emerging issue, as geothermal energy becomes more widely
accepted. I was interested to see DOE's new enhanced geothermal
EarthShot, a department-wide initiative, which aims to achieve
a 90 percent reduction in the cost of enhanced geothermal
projects by 2035. Can you talk about the steps that you will
take, if confirmed, to commercialize promising technologies
like that, across DOE's agencies, perhaps using EarthShot as an
example?
Mr. Crane. Thank you, Senator, for the question and maybe
while your youth was well spent becoming a scientist, mine was
misspent becoming a lawyer. So when we start talking about
geology, you have me out of my depth, so to speak, but I think
the geothermal EarthShot and the cross-cutting nature across
the Department of Energy is very exciting, and geothermal is a
very under-utilized resource that has more baseload
characteristics. And so you know, the programs--right now it is
more in the R&D side of the Department of Energy, but you know,
we will support that on the demonstration and deployment side,
wherever and whenever we can.
Senator Hickenlooper. Perfect. Couldn't ask for more.
Great. Thanks.
Thanks to all three. It was the first time I have gotten a
question to all three when we have had three people up here. So
these are concise answers. This is a direction the government
needs to move in.
The Chairman. It is because our----
Senator Heinrich. It is because you were so succinct.
The Chairman [continuing]. Resident scientist asked the
question.
[Laughter.]
Senator Hickenlooper. I doubt that.
The Chairman. Senator Cantwell.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you for
this important hearing and all of you for your willingness to
serve. These are very important positions and certainly, I
appreciate the focus that you brought to this morning's
feedback in answering questions.
Mr. Rodrigues, I would like to drill down a little more.
You and I had a chance to meet, but obviously the Pacific
Northwest National Laboratory has been a critical contributor
on electricity issues since its inception in grid
modernization, cybersecurity, energy storage, all of those
things. They are the home to the largest collection of power
system engineers and will soon be home to the Office of
Electricity's new Grid Storage Launchpad, which will provide a
place to accelerate and vindicate grid-scale storage, so very
important. Obviously, we are very interested in smart grid
technology and moving forward on the Office of Electricity's
support of the Grid Storage Launchpad once it opens in 2024. So
I wanted to ask you about the investment in time frame because
utility operators and consumers agreed to dynamically control
large electrical loads like EV chargers, water heaters, pumps,
all of these things that we have to do to drive down cost and
look at consumer affordability. I think they released a study
that showed if this technology were used across the country, it
would cut peak loads by up to 15 percent and deliver $50
billion in economic benefits to customers.
So how do you see the Grid Storage Launchpad moving forward
with PNNL and helping to roll this out?
Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you for that question, Senator
Cantwell and again, thank you for taking time to meet with me
yesterday. Let me start with a personal story. I have been in
the energy industry some 32 years. When I first entered that,
some 32 years ago, I remember having a conversation with one of
the leads of the utility on the technology side saying, you
know what the next breakthrough is for renewable energy?
Storage. And that is because from a utility perspective, the
thing that makes these technologies used and useful in making
affordable energy and reliable energy for people is the ability
to control the portfolio of resources you have. Grid storage, I
believe, represents the most important breakthrough our country
can make, and the PNNL is fortunate and we are fortunate that
it is the home of the Grid Storage Launchpad. That is going to
put out not just a good rigorous technology demonstration, but
it is intellectually rigorous plus muscular in terms of the
size and the breadth of the effort. I am very excited about the
work being done there.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
Mr.--I want to say this right--Marootian?
Mr. Marootian. Marootian.
The Chairman. Feel free, if you have to--Jeff.
Mr. Marootian. Perfect.
Senator Cantwell. Okay, Marootian.
Obviously in the energy efficiency and renewable energy
portfolio, PNNL is also a big player on renewable grid
integration and coastal and marine integration as well. How do
you think the role of the national labs would help support
these priorities in moving forward on decarbonization?
Mr. Marootian. Thank you, Senator Cantwell, for that
question.
I have had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Ashby and very
much, if confirmed, look forward to working with the PNNL team.
They are doing some cutting-edge research and work across the
board, and I think it is critical that we, as a Department,
focus on how to take the R&D work that is being done at the
labs and apply it to real-world applications, and I look
forward to doing that, if confirmed.
Senator Cantwell. And Mr. Crane, I understand PNNL was one
of the first labs you visited in your current role, so thank
you. Given the strong capabilities the Department is invested
in for many years, how do you plan to leverage these
investments, particularly, you know, some of the things we need
to do on the security side?
Mr. Crane. Well, Senator, you are absolutely correct. The
first national lab I got to visit was Pacific Northwest and it
was truly awe inspiring, and I think the thing that personally
most excited me about my visit was the work that was being done
within that lab on next-generation electrolyzers, which will be
essential to a highly successful hydrogen strategy,
particularly as the current generation of electrolyzers that we
are looking at, of course, rely on iridium, which is something
that the United States does not have a supply of currently. So
you know, we have to promote, you know, more special metals,
domestic sources, but solid oxide electrolyzers. Where the work
is being pioneered out in Washington State, I think, is
something we have to focus on very quickly to accelerate and
scale up.
Senator Cantwell. I am not sure--you could probably explain
it in a short period of time, but I look forward to helping
everybody understand this cutting-edge change. I don't even, if
you have a sound bite, you could say it, but----
Mr. Crane. No.
Senator Cantwell. Okay.
Mr. Crane. No, no, no, as a lawyer, I am at the very edge
of my technical understanding right now.
Senator Cantwell. Yes. I think you can change a lot in
manufacturing, I will just say that. I think it could be a game
changer in manufacturing.
Could I just, for the record, Mr. Chairman, I know we have
people who want to ask a second question.
The Chairman. Sure.
Senator Cantwell. Mr. Rodrigues, you and I also had a
conversation about grid fiber. The Chairman literally pioneered
this idea in his state, with people working together on grid
fiber as a way to drive a smarter grid, and do you think that a
program to encourage more utility investment in grid fiber is a
good idea?
Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you for that question, Senator
Cantwell. I don't think it's a good idea, I think it's an
excellent idea.
Senator Cantwell. Great. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Okay.
Senator Murkowski.
Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Gentlemen, thank you for your willingness to step up into
some of these key positions. Many of us on this Committee were
very involved in the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act.
Folks in my state are really anxious about how this is
implemented, how this law is implemented. We have already seen
a great return to our state, and it is no wonder, given that we
lack significantly when it comes to basic infrastructure,
everything from water and waste water to broadband to things
like roads and rails and bridges, ports and harbors, and of
course, ferries. So we have a lot of work to do there and you,
in your respective positions that you have been nominated to,
certainly Mr. Crane, you will be deeply involved in shepherding
much of this as we look to upgrade and modernize our nation's
energy infrastructure.
I don't know the extent to which any of the three of you
have had an opportunity to come to Alaska, but I will make a
public request to each of you, if confirmed, that you will make
the effort to do so. The Chairman has been to Alaska numerous
times. Senator Heinrich has been. Many members of this
Committee have been up, and I think every time any one of you
goes up, you realize how much you don't know about the state
because it is just so vast and its needs are so great. So I am
going to encourage all of you to do just that.
Mr. Crane, let me ask you a question regarding critical
minerals, and I do think it is timely that I just presented the
Chairman with--I don't know if it's a gift, Mr. Chairman, but I
know it is certainly within the allowable limits. It is a hunk
of natural graphite from the Graphite One prospect just outside
of Nome. But we talk a lot about critical minerals in my state
and what that means and why they are so important.
Mr. Crane, you have indicated that you think that it is
important, in fact, it needs to be a priority to be able to
access our resources domestically--not only our energy
resources, but I am assuming when it comes to critical
minerals, you feel that way as well. I have been a little bit
frustrated with some of the things that we have seen from this
Administration. They are saying the right words about accessing
our critical minerals, not being reliant on places like China,
which, we know, we are so heavily, heavily reliant, but they
are saying one thing and then certainly with initiatives in my
state, it seems that they are going the other way. We are
seeing permits being pulled. We are seeing rights-of-way being
rescinded. Applications for funding being passed up on.
So just if you can speak generally to me as the nominee for
Under Secretary for Infrastructure, whether you agree that
infrastructure for critical mineral supply and processing in
this country is important, is lacking, do you think that
accessing is a challenge and what, basically, can you do to
assure me that there is a plan here to help address our
nation's critical shortage when it comes to these minerals?
Mr. Crane. Senator, thank you for the question, and let me
start by saying I completely agree with you that this is an
essential area that needs to be addressed. There is no point in
just switching from dependence on foreign sources of oil and
gas to foreign sources on other technologies where we have this
Achilles' heel of not, you know, getting the minerals from
China.
In the Under Secretary Infrastructure vertical hierarchy,
there is a manufacturing and supply chain office which has been
funded with several billions of dollars, which is very
carefully looking at this and is going to be identifying areas
where we can directly lean in, in terms of ensuring those
supplies. And so I am extremely supportive of that and will
implement that vigorously. And if you don't mind, going back to
your opening comment, if I get confirmed and get invited, I
will come to Alaska, but last month Secretary Granholm and I
spent a whole day with the tribal and indigenous leaders here
in Washington. I know that is not the same thing as actually
being on the spot, but I understand the issues of the remote
communities, the energy needs in your area, and there is, I
think, a lot we need to do to enable them to access the rural
and remote provisions of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, and
I would very much look forward to working with you and your
staff to make that happen.
Senator Murkowski. Well, consider yourself invited. In
fact, I have already got a place in mind. We would like to take
you up to the North Slope area, and in particular, the
community of Utqiagvik. There is a facility up there, DOE's
research facility at Oliktok Point. It is a great example of
how federal and state agencies, as well as students from our
university, can benefit from continued collaboration. So we
think that assets like this are important to help out our
national labs when we think about the scientific initiatives
that are underway there. So you are invited as well as the
other nominees here.
Just very, very quickly, because I do not want to go over
my time too greatly, but I did want to ask you, Mr. Marootian,
given that your career has focused primarily on transportation
issues here in the District, I know you were asked earlier
about your qualifications to be the Assistant Secretary here,
but I am looking for a better understanding in terms of what
you will do to make sure that you understand what it means to
be in a very, very large geographically positioned state with
very few people, where, for us, you know, it is a microgrid
system that is really providing the reliability. It is
basically a couple wind turbines synched up with a battery
storage that looks like it is nothing more than just a storage
shed out there on the tundra. And this is where we have a very
unique aspect. So I am hoping too that not only you can
translate your understanding or your base of knowledge with how
these systems work in urban places, but that you have a
willingness or perhaps you do have some background there that
you can share with me very briefly.
Mr. Marootian. Thank you, Senator Murkowski. I see Alaska
as truly an all-of-the-above state. I realize the significant
resources, from oil and gas, to wind, to hydroelectric, to
geothermal, and certainly understand and recognize that the
rural and remote nature of some communities does make grid
access very difficult. It translates into, as you know, higher
costs for importing fuel, for example. And I think that there
are a number of applications, a number of ways that EERE can be
supportive of Alaska, continuing the partnership between NREL
and the Cold Climate Housing Research Center, for one.
Advancing the research and development on a number of
technologies that support the microgrid--onsite geothermal, for
example. Biomass, a number of other types of technologies that
can apply onsite. And harnessing the state's abundant
hydroelectric potential as well. So those are some of the ways
that I think we can partner. I certainly, as somebody who comes
from a local government background, truly recognize how
important it is that place-based solutions be applied, that
communities are met where they are. I very much look forward,
if confirmed, to working with your office, with the Arctic
Energy Office, with the Indian Energy Office at DOE, and
certainly look forward to visiting the state as well.
Senator Murkowski. Good. Well, you used all the right
buzzwords. Somebody must have just really plugged you in on
Alaska there because we are talking about the need for greater
affordability, certainly, but also place-based solutions.
And Mr. Rodrigues, I would hope that you too recognize in
this position that you have been nominated to, when you are
talking about grid deployment and energy reliability, that that
reliability really is so tightly keyed to affordability.
Mr. Rodrigues. I absolutely agree with that premise,
Senator, and I also would say I view it not just as an
obligation of the Office of Electricity to pay attention to and
develop ways for Alaska's remote microgrid system to become
more reliable, more resilient, but also more affordable. It is
a moral obligation that we do our best to ensure that we have
technological answers for the needs of your state.
Senator Murkowski. Too many communities are still powered
by diesel, and they are locked into fuel prices that were set a
couple months ago. So I have communities that are still paying
in excess of $10 a gallon for home heating fuel and they are
going to be paying that until the next barge arrives in June.
So for us, affordability is key.
Mr. Rodrigues. You have my absolute commitment that we will
give this issue our hardest and most focused attention.
Senator Murkowski. Very good.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am well over my time, but I
think you were writing with your hunk of graphite there.
The Chairman. Just a little.
Senator Murkowski. Thank you.
The Chairman. No problem, but thank you.
Real quick. We are coming to an end here. I have just a
couple questions, and I think Senator Heinrich might have a
follow-up question, okay? If I can?
So Mr. Rodrigues, on that, on reliability, which we have
talked about, you know, your job and your experience with the
SoCal Edison, I think, puts you in a unique position. You have
an important mission focused on grid reliability, resiliency,
and modernization. I think we all agree our North American grid
is the envy and the marvel of engineering for the whole world,
but ongoing changes in the generation of mix that we are seeing
with all of the new technology, outside forces, cyber threats,
and weather events that test the grid, also highlight the
importance of a resilient grid of how we can harden this grid.
So what do you view as the most pressing concern for the Office
of Electricity to address in that realm?
Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you for that question, Senator
Manchin. I think it is very insightful. I will say this: the
number one task, the number one role of the Office of
Electricity is to ensure that the American power system, the
American grid, is reliable, because without energy reliability,
nothing else matters to the American people. And may I add just
one thing to it? The thing that makes me so gosh darn excited
about being able to have the opportunity, if confirmed, to work
at the Office of Electricity is that the leadership in
technology, economics, and environmentalism that our office can
bring through the research, development, and demonstration is
not just going to help the American people, but it will allow
us, as a country, as a nation, to help our allies around the
world to remain secure and have affordable energy as well.
The Chairman. Thank you.
And Mr. Marootian--Jeff--I was determined to get that right
before this meeting was up. When it comes to transportation, I
think it is irresponsible to put all our eggs in one basket, in
one single technology, because some may be more viable than
others depending on the type of use that is demanded. For
instance, when it comes to long-distance trucking, hydrogen may
be a more viable option than battery electric vehicles. And I
say that because fuel cell systems are traditionally lighter
than batteries and refueling time is faster than using an EV
charger. So it makes an awful lot of sense. Since your
background is in transportation, what are your views on
hydrogen use in the transportation sector and the applications
that are the most viable for hydrogen?
Mr. Marootian. Thank you, Chairman Manchin.
I agree. I think there is tremendous promise in hydrogen
for medium and heavy-duty trucking, to marine shipping, and a
number of other applications as well. The Department has an
incredible team working on hydrogen, led by Dr. Sunita
Satyapal, and I very much look forward, if confirmed, to
working with them to advance these technologies, to help bring
the cost down, and also partnering with the Under Secretary's
Office as the hydrogen hubs get stood up. There is a tremendous
opportunity here for us to scale these technologies and bring
them into real-world applications.
The Chairman. Well, we are putting an awful lot of
investment and a lot of hope into having this alternative fuel,
which we think is going to be tremendous for our country.
And with that, Mr. Heinrich.
Mr. Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
Mr. Marootian, the Inflation Reduction Act really provided
incredible consumer-facing, cost-saving rebates for energy
efficient electric appliances--things like induction stoves,
heat pumps, air-sourced heat pump water heaters--but because
these things have been developed in recent years, many
Americans are simply unaware of these technologies and what
they can mean for their health and their pocketbook. How can
your office better educate Americans about the opportunities
for better health outcomes and lower costs through home
electrification?
Mr. Marootian. Thank you, Senator Heinrich, for that
question. It is something that I have thought a lot about, and
as a former local government official, I have relied heavily on
the Federal Government for technical assistance and for
information, and I know that there are many people who do not
have as easy access to that information. And so it is urgently
critical that we provide as much information as possible to
consumers, and that we partner with as many local governments
and state governments as possible to make sure that folks are
getting this information so that they understand how they can
access rebates and credits, but also so that they have the
opportunity to see what available technologies are out there.
And so I very much look forward to working with your office on
that.
Senator Heinrich. And I would just add contractors and
labor. I mean, the first time I installed an air-sourced heat
pump water heater, I have a fantastic plumber, and they were
like, I don't know what to do with this. And now, they are
installing those left and right and they are saving people
money and they love them. So we have to do that education piece
if we are going to have uptake in a meaningful amount of time.
Mr. Rodrigues, thanks for meeting with me the other day. I
know there have been concerns posed by DOE and industry about
the lack of domestic manufacturing of large power transformers,
the supply chain issues around transformers. What are your
thoughts on the need for spurring more domestic manufacturing
or even a national reserve of some sort of large power
transformers and distribution transformers?
Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you very much for that question. It is
an incredibly important issue for America. Writ large, the
issue of energy independence comes down to availability and our
ability to make useful and productive use of resources right
here at home. Transformers, as we sit here today, have two
challenges for them. Number one, without advancements in
transformer mechanics, they are built kind of on a custom
basis, one at a time, which creates a lag in getting
transformers to the grid, especially if you have a resiliency
issue where you are trying to recover the system. The Office of
Electricity is already doing research and working on
demonstrating the notion of flexible transformers that have
greater application and can be on the shelf for multiple uses.
And I think that is the kind of real-world thinking that the
Office of Electricity is already doing, that I hope to be able
to put even more strategic intent and more focus on.
Senator Heinrich. Great. No, that is a great answer.
One, I want to thank David for articulating that we need
resilient, reliable, efficient--I think it was safe,
affordable, reliable, and effectively clean, right? We need all
of those things at this point. And you know, one of the
technologies we have not spent a ton of time talking about, and
Mr. Rodrigues, we did this a little bit in the office, but
given the challenges that we have with transmission and given
the challenges that we have with permitting that Mr. Crane
alluded to in his comments today, how do we look at dynamic
line ratings, advanced conductors, transmission monitoring,
topology optimization, power flow controls, and get those
things out, given that they are already proven, into the
ecosystem so that yes, we are going to have to build more
transmission, we know we are going to have to do that because
demand is going to go up, but we can also use these things to
buy us time and make a more resilient grid?
Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you for that question, Senator. It
underscores the importance of a common-sense approach to
dealing with transmission issues. And just as we were talking
about an all-of-the-above energy strategy before, we need an
all-of-the-above transmission strategy. Everything that you
mentioned are areas where the Office of Electricity is
currently working to do grid enhancement so you don't have to
be delayed by the process it takes to get new transmission
corridors permitted, up, and built. That is a long, long time.
The American people need faster answers than that.
The grid enhancement technologies that the OE has on its
shelf are important for us, and we are demonstrating right now.
Part of our conversation yesterday, and I will be very brief
about this, is we need to understand that this is a system of
decision-makers. It is not just the technology answer. It is
about making sure that utilities feel that this technology is
certain and credible and will serve their people over the
useful life of 20 to 30 years. Regulators need to understand
the benefits of the system, as do advocates and ratepayer
advocates alike. So I view the role of the Office of
Electricity as becoming a lot more loud and a lot more engaged
in conversations with everyone who is part of the decision-
making process for getting technology off the shelves and put
to productive use.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
The Chairman. I want to thank all of our nominees and thank
their families for attending and we appreciate your being here
this morning, your responsiveness to our questions and
concerns, and your willingness to take on these important jobs
and serve our country. I still believe public service is the
noblest of all professions and you all should feel very good
about that.
Members will have until 6:00 p.m. tomorrow to submit
additional questions for the record.
And this meeting is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:41 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
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