[Senate Hearing 117-522]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                                 ______


                                                        S. Hrg. 117-522
 
              CRANE, MAROOTIAN, AND RODRIGUES NOMINATIONS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                                   to

   CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF DAVID CRANE TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF 
  ENERGY, JEFFREY M. MAROOTIAN TO BE AN ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF ENERGY 
 (ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND RENEWABLE ENERGY), AND GENE RODRIGUES TO BE AN 
    ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF ENERGY (ELECTRICITY DELIVERY AND ENERGY 
                              RELIABILITY)

                               __________

                           NOVEMBER 17, 2022

                               __________


                       Printed for the use of the
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                        ______

             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
 49-938             WASHINGTON : 2024   
        
        
        
        
               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon                    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington           JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico          STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine            JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado       CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
                                     ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas

                      Renae Black, Staff Director
                      Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
             Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
              Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
              
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West 
  Virginia.......................................................     1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from 
  Wyoming........................................................     2

                               WITNESSES

Crane, David, nominated to be Under Secretary of Energy..........     4
Marootian, Jeffrey M., nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of 
  Energy (Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy)................     8
Rodrigues, Gene, nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of Energy 
  (Electricity Delivery and Energy Reliability)..................    12

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Barrasso, Hon. John:
    Opening Statement............................................     2
    New York Times article entitled ``How Producing Clean Power 
      Turned Out To Be a Messy Business'' by David Gelles, August 
      13, 2016...................................................    19
    GreenBiz editorial entitled ``Lessons on Sustainability 
      Leadership From Jeff Immelt and The Boss'' by David Crane, 
      April 19, 2016.............................................    28
    GreenBiz editorial entitled ``My Clean-Energy Dream'' by 
      David Crane, June 26, 2017.................................    31
Crane, David:
    Opening Statement............................................     4
    Written Testimony............................................     6
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    53
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
Marootian, Jeffrey M.:
    Opening Statement............................................     8
    Written Testimony............................................    10
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    67
Rodrigues, Gene:
    Opening Statement............................................    12
    Written Testimony............................................    14
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    74


              CRANE, MAROOTIAN, AND RODRIGUES NOMINATIONS

                              ----------                              


                      THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 2022

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:10 a.m. in 
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin 
III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA

    The Chairman. The meeting will come to order.
    First of all, I want to thank everybody and your families 
for being here that have come with you. You are more than 
welcome to introduce them when we get to that point. I have an 
opening statement to make and then I will go to my friend here, 
John Barrasso, to make his opening statement too.
    We are meeting today to consider three pending nominations: 
the nomination of David Crane to be the Under Secretary of 
Energy for Infrastructure, Jeffrey Marootian----
    Mr. Marootian. Marootian, sir.
    The Chairman. Marootian--okay, thank you, Jeff--to be an 
Assistant Secretary of Energy for Energy Efficiency and 
Renewable Energy, and Gene Rodrigues--is that close?
    Mr. Rodrigues. That is correct, sir.
    The Chairman. All right, okay--to be an Assistant Secretary 
of Energy for Electricity Delivery and Energy Reliability.
    So we welcome all of you and we welcome your families too.
    Our first nominee, David Crane, has been nominated to be 
the Under Secretary of Energy. By law, the Under Secretary 
performs the functions and duties prescribed by the Secretary. 
Secretary Granholm has given the Under Secretary the 
responsibility for managing the Department of Energy's 
Demonstration and Deployment programs authorized and funded 
through the Energy Act of 2020 and last year's Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Act. Mr. Crane brings to the job years of 
experience as a business leader, having served as CEO of NRG 
Energy, one of the nation's largest power companies. In this 
role, he will be overseeing several demonstration programs that 
I know are very important to members of this Committee, 
including for carbon capture, advanced nuclear, hydrogen, and a 
lot more. I look forward to hearing about how you plan to 
implement these critical programs, if confirmed.
    Mr. Jeffrey Marootian has been nominated to be the 
Assistant Secretary of Energy for Energy Efficiency and 
Renewable Energy. Jeffrey brings extensive experience managing 
transportation programs, both at the U.S. Department of 
Transportation as the Assistant Secretary for Administration 
and as the Director of the District of Columbia's Department of 
Transportation. More recently, he has served as a Special 
Assistant to the President and the White House Office of 
Presidential Personnel, and for the past two months, has been a 
Senior Advisor in the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable 
Energy. He has had extensive experience managing governmental 
programs and construction projects. Though he has only recently 
been involved with energy programs, I will be interested to 
hear his thoughts on the Office of Energy Efficiency and 
Renewable Energy and how he plans to apply his managerial 
skills and experience in his new role.
    Mr. Rodrigues has been nominated to be the Assistant 
Secretary of Energy for Electricity Delivery and Energy 
Reliability. The Assistant Secretary for Electricity oversees 
the Department's Electricity Office, which is responsible for 
developing new technologies to strengthen and modernize and 
improve the electric grid. I expect Mr. Rodrigues knows 
something about the grid, having spent 23 years working for 
Southern California Edison, one of the nation's largest 
investor-owned utilities. More recently, he has been the Vice 
President of Market Development in the Energy and Environment 
Infrastructure Division of ICF International.
    All three of these positions oversee important portfolios 
at the Department of Energy. They have been made even more 
important with the additional authorities and funding that we 
have given the Department in the Energy Act of 2020 and the 
Infrastructure Act last year. I appreciate all three nominees 
for being with us this morning and for their willingness to 
take on and serve in these important and demanding positions. I 
look forward to hearing more from each of you about your 
qualifications and how you are going to discharge the 
responsibilities, if confirmed.
    And at this point, I will recognize Senator Barrasso for 
his opening statements.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING

    Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks so very much, Mr. Chairman.
    First, Mr. Crane has been nominated for Under Secretary of 
Energy for Infrastructure. He has been deciding where to put 
dollars to work in the energy sector for decades. He has 
largely focused his career on directing investment away from 
energy that is available when we need it and he has directed 
investment toward energy that is dependent on the weather--that 
is wind and solar. Most notably, Mr. Crane spent 12 years as 
CEO of NRG Energy, a leading company in the power sector. In a 
2016 interview, he openly talked about how he was ``fired'' 
from that position. During his tenure as CEO, Mr. Crane 
attempted to shift NRG's energy electric business toward wind 
and solar and away from natural gas and coal. According to the 
New York Times, he was fired after the company share price 
dropped 63 percent in a year. Mr. Crane later explained at a 
solar industry conference, ``We were taking the profits from 
the coal plants and plowing them into solar development, and at 
the end of the day, that got to be annoying to the shareholders 
and the board of directors of the company.''
    Since being fired by NRG Energy, Mr. Crane has called for 
``name and shame activism'' against companies that don't 
subscribe to his ideology. In a 2017 essay he wrote on the 
``Green Dream,'' he argued for the power to reallocate the 
energy budgets of the world's hundred biggest companies. He 
would have mandated that they be carbon neutral by 2025. He 
sought power over ``laggards and recalcitrants.'' He wanted to 
make employees--employees--personally responsible for their 
company's carbon emissions. Where did prices for consumers fit 
into this daydream? Nowhere.
    President Biden recently stated that he will be ``shutting 
down coal plants all across America.'' Mr. Crane appears to be 
marching in lockstep. American families need affordable and 
reliable energy. Millions have been forced to decide whether to 
fill up their tanks with gas, heat their homes, or put food on 
the table. The Department of Energy's Under Secretary for 
Energy Infrastructure must support affordable energy. That 
requires an-all-of-the above energy strategy, and I am 
concerned that Mr. Crane may be the wrong person for the job.
    Mr. Marootian has been nominated to serve as the Assistant 
Secretary for the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable 
Energy at the Department of Energy. The Office constitutes the 
largest applied energy office at the Department of Energy. 
Among other duties, the office develops and implements 
mandatory energy efficiency standards for household appliances, 
such as dishwashers and water heaters. For just over two 
months, Mr. Marootian has been a senior advisor in the Office 
of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy. Before that, he 
served at the White House Office of Presidential Personnel as 
the Director of the Washington DC Department of Transportation, 
the U.S. Department of Transportation, and at the Democratic 
National Committee. His background has little to do with the 
office to which he has been nominated to lead. It is unclear 
why he was nominated to a position at the Department of Energy 
instead of the Department of Transportation.
    Mr. Rodrigues has been nominated to be Assistant Secretary 
and lead the Office of Electricity at the Department of Energy. 
Since 2014, he has been Vice President at the Energy 
Environment and Infrastructure Practice Group, a consulting 
firm. I am interested in learning more about his plan for 
ensuring that the nation's electric sector is secure, reliable, 
and affordable.
    I look forward to hearing from the nominees today, Mr. 
Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    The rules of the Committee, which apply to all nominees, 
require that they be sworn in in conjunction with their 
testimony. So if you all would stand and raise your right 
hands?
    Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to 
give to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God?
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    The Chairman. Please be seated.
    Before you begin your statement, I will ask three questions 
addressed to each nominee before the Committee.
    Will you be available to appear before this Committee and 
other Congressional committees to represent department 
positions and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
    Mr. Crane. Yes.
    Mr. Marootian. Yes, Chairman.
    Mr. Rodrigues. Yes, I will, thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Second, are you aware of any personal holdings, 
investments, or interests that could constitute a conflict of 
interest or create the appearance of such a conflict, should 
you be confirmed and assume the office to which you have been 
nominated by the President?
    Mr. Crane. No, Chairman, I am not aware.
    Mr. Marootian. No.
    Mr. Rodrigues. None, Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Finally, are you involved or do you have any assets held in 
a blind trust?
    Mr. Crane. No, I do not.
    Mr. Marootian. No.
    Mr. Rodrigues. No, I do not, Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    So let us begin with our testimonies now. We will start 
with Mr. Crane, you are recognized to give your statement.

                   STATEMENT OF DAVID CRANE, 
           NOMINATED TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF ENERGY

    Mr. Crane. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso, and 
distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today. Having had the benefit of a long 
career, I can tell you that my path was set by the twin oil 
crises of the 1970's. I believed then, as I believe now, that 
the United States is the greatest, most judiciously powerful 
nation on earth, and it troubled me deeply that our country 
might be compromised through our dependence on foreign sources 
of a single commodity. I subsequently wrote my college thesis 
on our potential vulnerability of foreign dependence on sources 
of other strategic materials, like magnesium or cobalt. It is a 
concern and fascination with essential commodities that remains 
important to me and relevant to this day.
    While I have worked as a lawyer, a developer, and as an 
investment banker, I spent the greater part of the first 15 
years of my career developing and financing new power plant 
construction. In 2003, I became CEO of NRG Energy and grew a 
previously bankrupt company over the next 12 years to become 
the third largest power generation company in the United 
States, with 50,000 megawatts of generation. I am very proud of 
the company we built at NRG. We achieved top decile safety 
performance and top quartile reliability. We took care of our 
people, not laying off a single employee during the Great 
Recession of 2008-2009. We strove always to be a good neighbor 
in the communities which hosted our facilities, and most 
importantly, we took great pride in fulfilling the historic 
``three imperatives'' mission of the American power industry: 
safe, affordable, and reliable power to all Americans.
    A few years into my tenure at NRG, it became clear to me 
that a fourth imperative was emerging for our industry--
decarbonization. This was a particular challenge for our 
company because, of the 50 largest American power generation 
companies at the time, NRG was the second most carbon-
intensive, and our baseload coal plants, and very importantly, 
the men and women who operated them, were the heart and soul of 
our company. Starting in 2006, we leaned hard into a multi-
year, multi-billion-dollar strategy to revitalize our aging 
generation fleet by scaling the zero-carbon elements of our 
business, by building higher efficiency natural gas facilities, 
and by embracing technologies that would extend the life of our 
baseload coal plants by reducing their carbon intensity. We 
filed the first NRC permit for a new U.S. nuclear plant since 
1979, in 2007. We built a substantial utility-scale solar 
business. We began the first national electric vehicle public 
charging network, and we built Petra Nova, then the world's 
largest carbon capture project. Many of these initiatives were 
enabled in part by assistance of the U.S. Department of Energy 
and catalyzed by bipartisan acts of Congress, including the 
Energy Policy Act of 2005.
    With respect to our existing coal fleet, we invested 
billions of dollars in back-end controls, but with these plants 
nearing the end of their design lives, with structural fatigue 
a real risk, we closed or mothballed several of them. To this 
day, these shutdowns are the most gut-wrenching decisions I 
have ever made as a business executive. We made every effort to 
redeploy our people at new plants across the country, but this 
provides little solace to the local communities. This showed me 
that even in big infrastructure, there is a very human scale 
impact to what we do. I spent the better part of my career 
running power companies without, in truth, having any great 
technical understanding of how electricity is produced, but 
what I do understand is capital formation and capital 
deployment in and around the American energy sector. My career 
experience living and working at the intersection of big 
capital and big energy projects, in my opinion, ideally suits 
me for the position you are considering me for today.
    The newly created Under Secretary for Infrastructure 
position has one task and one task only, and that is to 
implement the provisions of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law 
consistent with the intent of this Congress. I am ready, 
willing, and able to serve in that role, and I hope to perform 
this function in a manner that embodies the classic Midwest 
values which my parents taught me to hold dear: decency, 
fairness, and humility. I hope my service, if confirmed, will 
validate the trust that the President of the United States and 
Secretary Granholm have placed in me and that it will make my 
family proud. And most of all, I want to thank my wife, 
Isabella, and my five children, Cason, David, Bella, Oliver, 
and Christopher, two of whom are sitting behind me, for 
supporting me in this disruptive step in our lives and for 
allowing me to follow the call to public service.
    Thank you for your consideration of me today. I look 
forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Crane follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
    
    
    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Crane.
    Now we are going to hear from Jeffrey. We are on a first 
name basis here, Jeff.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Marootian. I will take it, Senator.

STATEMENT OF JEFFREY M. MAROOTIAN, NOMINATED TO BE AN ASSISTANT 
  SECRETARY OF ENERGY (ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND RENEWABLE ENERGY)

    Mr. Marootian. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso, 
and distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the 
privilege to testify before you today and for considering my 
nomination to serve as the Assistant Secretary for Energy 
Efficiency and Renewable Energy at the Department of Energy. I 
am humbled by the confidence that President Biden and Secretary 
Granholm have placed in me with this nomination, and I am 
enthusiastic about the opportunity, if confirmed, to work with 
this Committee, with my colleagues in the Biden-Harris 
Administration, and with the truly phenomenal team of dedicated 
professionals in the Department of Energy's Office of Energy 
Efficiency and Renewable Energy.
    My great grandparents came to this country from Armenia in 
search of freedom and opportunity. They settled in the New York 
and New Jersey area, where they proudly pursued the American 
dream. My parents and grandparents instilled in me the 
importance of not only loving our country, but demonstrating 
that commitment through civic participation and public service. 
My grandmother, a New York City public schoolteacher and my 
grandfather, a Navy veteran, exemplified that commitment, 
teaching me that the most important thing that I could do was 
to contribute to society through service to my community. It 
was that example that not only led me to pursue a path in 
government, but to find the values that I still carry with me 
to this day as I sit in front of this Committee. I would also 
be remiss if I also did not acknowledge that I am here because 
of the many LGBTQ+ pioneers that have served in public roles 
before me. It is because of their leadership and courage that 
barriers have been broken and I am able to proudly serve my 
country.
    I have had the distinct honor of serving in two 
Presidential administrations, and at the local government level 
here in our nation's capital. I am grateful to former 
Transportation Secretary Anthony Fox, for empowering me to 
serve as an Assistant Secretary and Chief Sustainability 
Officer during the Obama-Biden Administration, and to DC Mayor 
Muriel Bowser for entrusting me to lead the city's 
transportation department. In these roles, I was tasked with 
overseeing cross-cutting public infrastructure projects, 
partnering with industry to deploy new and emerging sustainable 
technologies, and working to reduce carbon emissions across 
multiple sectors. While overseeing the District Department of 
Transportation, I focused on taking steps to lower costs for 
individuals and families, creating jobs and economic 
opportunity, fostering innovation, and improving the quality of 
our environment. While serving as the Assistant Secretary for 
Administration and Chief Sustainability Officer at the United 
States Department of Transportation, I oversaw the effort to 
improve energy efficiency and reduce waste throughout the 
agency's public buildings and facilities portfolio. I also 
managed the administration of research and development grants 
and took steps to improve upon the Department's use of 
renewable power.
    Having served for much of my career at the state and local 
level, I am keenly aware of the importance of providing high-
quality technical assistance while taking a collaborative 
approach when working with state and municipal officials. I am 
also deeply committed to ensuring transparency, being a good 
steward of public dollars, and being responsive to the issues 
and concerns brought forward by industry leaders and advocates. 
If confirmed, I look forward to bringing these principles and 
lessons learned--and the values of public service instilled in 
me by my family--to the Office of Energy Efficiency and 
Renewable Energy. Thanks in large part to the leadership and 
work of this Committee, the Department has more resources than 
ever before to create jobs, spur innovation, and improve 
communities across this country. This historic investment will 
help the state-of-the-art American-led technology and 
innovation in our manufacturing sector, and improve our energy 
security and independence, which is critical now more than 
ever. It will support the Department's efforts to fund research 
in a wide array of renewable technologies with the goal of 
increasing grid reliability and reducing monthly costs for 
everyday Americans. And these resources will strengthen the 
Agency's ability to advance technologies such as battery 
storage, biofuels, and hydrogen fuel cells that will continue 
to strengthen America's competitive edge.
    If confirmed, I look forward to working with my colleagues 
at the Department of Energy and with this Committee to continue 
to further cost-effective clean energy solutions while making 
our energy more secure, creating jobs, and catalyzing 
investment in the American economy. Thank you again for the 
opportunity to testify before you today. I look forward to 
answering your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Marootian follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

    
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    And now, we will hear from Mr. Rodrigues.

   STATEMENT OF GENE RODRIGUES, NOMINATED TO BE AN ASSISTANT 
     SECRETARY OF ENERGY (ELECTRICITY DELIVERY AND ENERGY 
                          RELIABILITY)

    Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you.
    Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso, and 
distinguished members of the Committee, I thank you for the 
opportunity to appear before you today. I feel both blessed and 
humbled to have been nominated to serve as Assistant Secretary 
of Energy for the Office of Electricity. My father served our 
nation as a career soldier and a combat veteran and my mother 
left the country of her birth to become a naturalized U.S. 
citizen. So I fully recognize that the calling to serve our 
country is not just a civic duty, it is a high honor and a 
profound privilege. If my parents were still with us today, I 
know they would be very proud, indeed, that their son aspires 
to serve our nation in such an important role. I will focus my 
testimony today on just two key points. First, how the last 32 
years of my professional career have prepared me for the 
responsibility of leading the Office of Electricity, and 
second, if confirmed, how I would ensure that the Office 
fulfills its critical mission of providing our nation with a 
secure, reliable, and resilient energy delivery system that 
provides every American with access to abundant and affordable 
energy to power our homes, our businesses, and our economy.
    My life's work within the energy industry has been focused 
on matters directly related to the mission of the Office of 
Electricity. For example, during my nearly 24 years at one of 
our nation's largest electric utilities, I oversaw customer 
programs that provided resource adequacy, customer 
affordability, emissions reduction, economic development, and 
system reliability, including research, development, and 
demonstration activities on emerging technologies. Following my 
time inside the utility, I spent the next eight years in 
consulting, where I shared my lessons learned with other 
utilities, with local governments, and with state and federal 
agencies, including the Department of Energy. And all 
throughout my three decades in the energy field, I have 
accepted and embraced leadership roles within organizations 
committed to meeting the energy, economic, and environmental 
challenges of today, while preparing our industry for the 
future. Each of these experiences, and many more that I will 
not have time to touch upon today, have indelibly ingrained in 
me the conviction that for us to be truly effective in 
navigating the transformational opportunities and the 
unprecedented challenges of developing a 21st century grid, it 
will take much more than just the expertise of any one person, 
or any one agency, for that matter.
    As our energy network becomes increasingly complex and 
dynamic, we must ensure reliability, resiliency, and security 
across the entirety of the energy system. And while there are 
tremendous opportunities for technological advancement, these 
will be accompanied by uncertainty and vulnerability that must 
be addressed with equal consideration and urgency. To lead the 
way, we must now think, plan, invent, invest, and operate in 
ways that are more collaborative, more inclusive, and more 
coordinated than ever before. This is why I am grateful to have 
earned the trust of a great many of the industry stakeholders, 
who will play an indispensable role in the modernization and 
decarbonization of America's grid. It has been my privilege to 
work alongside industry leaders from the Edison Electric 
Institute, the National Association of State Energy Officials, 
the National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners, 
the Smart Energy Power Alliance, and the GridWise Alliance, 
among many, many others. These non-partisan organizations know 
me well and have supported my nomination for this important 
role. Similarly, the bipartisan Alliance to Save Energy 
recently honored me with their Charles H. Percy Award for 
Public Service, which celebrates reaching across the political 
aisle to accomplish results for the benefit of all Americans.
    In closing, I commit to you that if I am fortunate enough 
to be granted the responsibility of leading the Office of 
Electricity, we will remain clear-eyed and pragmatic about 
assessing the challenges ahead, and we will engage industry and 
innovation stakeholders alike to work side-by-side with us as 
we develop, demonstrate, and deploy solutions for America's 
energy delivery network. And along every step of the way, we 
will never lose sight of the imperative to create and sustain 
good-paying jobs that serve the American people. I look forward 
to answering any questions you may have, and if confirmed, to 
working closely with each of you as we make progress on our 
shared mission of fostering the continued technological, 
economic, and environmental leadership of our great nation.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Rodrigues follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

    The Chairman. Let me thank all three of you for your 
testimonies and presentations. If anyone would like to 
introduce their family members with them, they are more than 
welcome to do so.
    Mr. Crane, do you want to start with yours. I think you 
have a few more.
    Mr. Crane. I would like to introduce my cousin, Laura, my 
beloved niece, Molly, and my sons, Cason and Oliver. I just 
wanted to make sure they were sitting in that order.
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. Welcome.
    Jeffrey.
    Mr. Marootian. My family is watching from home today.
    The Chairman. Well, thank them.
    And Mr. Rodrigues.
    Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you, Chairman.
    I would like to introduce my wonderful wife, Becky, who is 
sitting here behind me today.
    The Chairman. It is good to have all of you here.
    We will start with the questions.
    My first question is pretty simple, yes or no. Do any of 
you believe that the United States of America can be energy-
independent within the next ten years without a robust fossil--
clean fossil energy program?
    Mr. Crane. No, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Marootian. No, sir.
    Mr. Rodrigues. No, sir, I do not.
    The Chairman. Mr. Crane, I support an all-of-the-above 
approach to energy policy and believe in order to ensure energy 
security that we cannot eliminate fossil, and I am glad to hear 
you all feel the same way. We have to focus on the cleanest way 
possible to decarbonize. We understand that. The Energy Act of 
2020 did that. It helped us. The bipartisan Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act and the Inflation Reduction Act that we 
just passed are investing heavily in carbon capture utilization 
and storage. This included authorizing and funding CCUS 
demonstration projects, with two required on coal-fired power 
plants.
    In your role, as Under Secretary, Mr. Crane, you will be 
tasked with implementing these programs. You were previously 
quoted as saying, ``the coal industry has missed the boat on 
its opportunity to decarbonize.'' Can you explain your views on 
coal and CCUS in a domestic and global energy mix now and in 
the future?
    Mr. Crane. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman.
    Like you, I believe in all-of-the-above. I believe that 
domestic coal is a fundamental part of the energy mix of the 
United States. I applaud the actions that Congress has taken, 
particularly the carbon capture utilization and sequestration. 
The 45Q, and I can tell you from being in the private sector, 
that those provisions are catalyzing a response that I think is 
going to be very good for the industry. And finally and most 
importantly, and directly in answer to your question, without 
qualification, without exception, I can tell you that I will 
implement the coal-related provisions of these bills with the 
same vigor that I implement every other provision.
    The Chairman. That was the final part of my question. So 
you got ahead of me on that one, and I appreciate it, because I 
was going to say, will you commit to carrying out the CCUS?
    Mr. Crane. Absolutely.
    The Chairman. Okay.
    And I have another one for you, sir.
    You are currently overseeing the implementation of $9.5 
billion in funding to supercharge the hydrogen economy, 
including $8 billion for several hydrogen hubs. As you know, 
the Infrastructure Law requires at least two of the hubs to be 
located in major natural gas producing regions, such as the 
Appalachia, in West Virginia. So we are very excited for this 
program to be put to good use. It also requires at least one of 
the hubs to demonstrate clean hydrogen derived from fossil 
fuels. So, although the Department of Energy has not selected 
the winners for hub funding yet, can you talk about the 
hydrogen hub investment and how it has changed the landscape in 
terms of the U.S. leadership in hydrogen around the world?
    Mr. Crane. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I would love to do that. As 
you said, the hydrogen solicitation is underway.
    The Chairman. Yes.
    Mr. Crane. And the first thing I can tell you is that there 
has been an extremely enthusiastic response from across the 
country and you know, as you pointed out, the bill requirements 
require a geographic diversification, fuel input 
diversification, and end-use diversification and we are 
confident that we will get proposals from around the country 
that will fit all those needs.
    The Chairman. What type of activity are you seeing coming 
in from the world? I am hearing so much about what is going on 
because we are committed.
    Mr. Crane. As it happened, I was recently with some old 
friends who are involved in hydrogen development in Europe, 
where the European Union and the UK are being active, and one 
of the things that they are saying is that multinational 
companies are actually moving their hydrogen programs to North 
America because of the actions of this Congress.
    The Chairman. Let me say--we are concerned about blue 
hydrogen also which comes from gas, and how you all are 
implementing that, and are you committed to, as required by 
law, to work that one, too? The green comes from renewables, as 
we know, but the blue can be green from gas if it is carbon 
that is sequestered, correct?
    Mr. Crane. We are absolutely committed to the blue and the 
green provisions, and once the hydrogen gets into the system, 
as you know, a lot of it is about the infrastructure that comes 
downstream from the production of the hydrogen. So again, we 
will faithfully implement every provision of the----
    The Chairman. The thing I am so excited about hydrogen was 
this, and the reason I have been doubling down on everything on 
hydrogen is because we are not--and we would never have to be--
dependent on foreign supply chains for energy because we can 
produce all the hydrogen--clean hydrogen--that we ever need in 
our country.
    With that, Jeffrey, I am going to turn it to you. You have 
a background in transportation policy, which is covered by the 
office you have been nominated to lead, but not many of the 
other programs central to the office, such as renewable 
technologies and energy efficiency. Can you talk about your 
experience and do you believe that is a hindrance to you? Do we 
have you in the right match, because I know you have a lot of 
skills?
    Mr. Marootian. Thank you so much, Senator Manchin, for that 
question. I believe I was selected for this role because of my 
experience leading large organizations. The District Department 
of Transportation is a very large organization--about 1,100 
people. For scale, the EERE Office is just slightly less than 
that. And as you noted, the transportation components of DOE 
fit within the EERE portfolio. In fact, about a third of the 
entire portfolio is dedicated to sustainable transportation. 
The newly established joint Office of Energy and Transportation 
is within EERE as well, and broadly, there are a number of 
programs across the energy efficiency and renewable power 
pillars that require management in collaboration within DOE 
with the newly established Under Secretary's Office and across 
government agencies. Those are the skills that I bring to the 
table and that is why I believe I was nominated for this role, 
and if confirmed, I look forward to working with this Committee 
to implement a wide array of programs.
    The Chairman. With that, I will turn to Senator Barrasso 
for his questions.
    Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate 
you doing this.
    And Mr. Crane, if confirmed, you are going to have 
responsibility for over $70 billion in appropriations, and also 
have the authority to loan another $250 billion. This is not 
the Department of Energy's money. This money belongs to the 
American people. So when CEO of NRG, you were entrusted with 
investors' money. According to the New York Times, and I have 
the article here from August of 2016 that, Mr. Chairman, I am 
going to ask to be presented as part of the record.
    The Chairman. Without objection, sir.
    [New York Times article from August 2016 follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

    
    Senator Barrasso. So you lost 63 percent of NRG's value in 
a year and you were fired. One financial analyst told the 
paper, ``We all believe in renewables, but investors lost 
confidence in the management team.'' So in light of your 
record, why should we believe that you are going to manage the 
American people's money better than you managed NRG's money?
    Mr. Crane. Thank you for the question, Senator.
    I think on the topic of NRG share price, NRG share price 
actually traded principally in close correlation with natural 
gas prices, and the 63 percent reduction you are talking about 
was actually consistent with other companies in the industry. I 
think if you look at my track record in terms of investment in 
big projects, you know, my background in project financing, if 
you look at things like the credit rating of NRG, no one ever 
lost, you know, a dime in terms of investing in NRG debt. So I 
would say that the type of big projects that you say--because 
it is a huge amount of money that you are talking about, and it 
is American taxpayer money--and so I take the responsibility 
very seriously and I believe that I have the skill set and the 
sense of prudency to be a careful steward of that money.
    Senator Barrasso. So in a 2016 GreenBiz op-ed, you wrote, 
``The sustainability movement will have to become more 
aggressive if it is to affect change through business 
leadership.'' You explain, your quote, ``Enlightened companies 
will need to withhold their business from companies that do not 
invest in the future but are content to seek competitive 
advantage in consumptive business as usual.''
    [The editorial referred to follows, along with an 
additional editorial submitted for the record:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 


    Senator Barrasso. So six years have passed since you wrote 
the op-ed. So the question is, are today's enlightened 
companies, which I imagine today would be described as ``woke'' 
companies, are the woke companies, as you define them, 
sufficiently withholding their business from those who are not 
enlightened?
    Mr. Crane. I think the point of that article has to do with 
decarbonization specifically, and it is not saying that all 
companies in the future have to just buy renewables. 
Decarbonized fossil fuels, I think, is something that most 
companies that are trying to do something about climate change, 
you know, they will buy power from decarbonized fossil fuels. 
So I don't know the concept of wokeness as it applies to the 
energy industry. It is not one that I am that familiar with, 
but I do believe that the provisions of the bill that I am 
supposed to implement, which will provide decarbonized fossil 
fuel alongside other renewables, including new renewables like 
geothermal, I think it provides a future that energy consumers 
will be willing to buy into.
    Senator Barrasso. That is a debatable point of what energy 
companies or energy consumers will be able to buy or willing to 
buy because my thought is, you know, companies should 
prioritize reliability and affordability for their users. So 
you know, should companies prioritize reliability and 
affordability when producing energy, even if it means 
purchasing energy derived from coal or natural gas or oil?
    Mr. Crane. Ranking Member, safe, affordable, reliable 
power, the three imperatives of this industry, have not changed 
in the 21st century. You are completely correct in that regard. 
We have just added this imperative of decarbonization. So I 
agree with you. We cannot compromise safe, affordable, and 
reliable power to deliver to all Americans.
    Senator Barrasso. Mr. Marootian, if I could, on building 
codes--building energy codes are state laws. The Office of 
Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy plays a role in the 
development of building codes, along with, you know, private 
entities. The Department of Energy has no authority--none--to 
set mandatory nationwide building codes. Do you believe the 
Department of Energy should have authority to establish 
mandatory nationwide building energy codes?
    Mr. Marootian. Senator Barrasso, thank you for that 
question. I believe, first and foremost, in following the 
intent of the law, and also believe, further, in state 
sovereignty and states' ability to make those types of laws 
that are best for citizens of those states. And if confirmed, 
those would be the principles that I would apply.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    And now we will go to Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
    Mr. Crane, the Office of Clean Energy Demonstrations (OCED) 
was tasked with funding large-scale demonstrations under the 
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law to de-risk technologies for 
industry. So I want to ask you just what metrics you are going 
to be thinking about to ensure that those large demonstrations 
are truly addressing the key risks to be able to move those 
things towards adoption/deployment scale.
    Mr. Crane. Senator Heinrich, thank you for the question. 
And your characterization is right, it is mainly big projects 
within OCED, although we have the billion dollars for rural and 
remote smaller projects, but on the big projects, I think, 
actually the genius of the law is this hub concept, which I 
think, you know, could be described more as an ecosystem. And 
one of the things that we are trying to do is, you know, 
sometimes in the past with DOE projects, we talk about how they 
had been ``demonstrate and dismantle,'' and what we really are 
looking for is ``demonstrate and deploy.'' And I think a 
particular area of focus for me, because, you know, the DOE's 
technical strength has almost no limit--but more on the 
commercial offtake. I mean, these projects not only have to 
operate within their ring fence, but they have to be 
commercially sound.
    So I would tell you that that is the singular thing I am 
focused on, particularly when you look at something like 
hydrogen, where we are going to ramp-up hydrogen production, 
but we have to look at the demand for hydrogen at the same 
time.
    Senator Heinrich. And I think, you know, it is not just 
about the technical aptitude, but then being demonstrated in a 
way to bankability that industry takes off with these things, 
right? I mean, that is really the 1-2-3-4 approach to getting 
this stuff to scale, is showing that it really works and then 
that you can build it in a way that is profitable. Then once 
the Loan Program Office, for example, works with someone to do 
that step, then the banks and other financial sector players 
will jump in and these things will be off and running on their 
own.
    Mr. Crane. Senator, that is an extremely insightful point. 
And in fact, we are standing up a small team right now. What I 
am very concerned about is, the Department of Energy has a lot 
of negotiating in these public-private partnerships, but what 
we cannot do is structure projects that the private sector 
would never replicate.
    Senator Heinrich. Right.
    Mr. Crane. So I would tell you in my two months at the DOE, 
the word replicability has passed my lips more often than it 
has in my previous 63 years. So that is one of our mantras.
    Senator Heinrich. So let's shift specifically to the 
industrial sector, and how should we be thinking about 
infrastructure planning and investment to be able to 
decarbonize the next frontier, which is really heavy industry--
cement, glass, aluminum, steel, all of those industrial 
processes that rely on high heat.
    Mr. Crane. The decarbonization of industry, and that is, of 
course--I think we now have a total of $5.8 billion for that--
is just one of the most exciting things that we have on our 
plate. And we have been looking at seven hard-to-abate sectors, 
and based on my experience--I was on the board of a steel 
company before I resigned to come to DOE--is that the key is to 
go to the heart of the process, where a lot of heavy industry 
thinks that there is no zero-carbon solution to create the 
process heat that is at the center, the core of what they do. 
And I think with the money that has been authorized from 
Congress, we can put out demonstration projects that can show 
that you can create very high temperatures--1,000 to 1,400 
degrees Centigrade heat, you know, without putting carbon into 
the atmosphere.
    Senator Heinrich. I want to shift to you, Mr. Marootian. 
EERE has an opportunity to exercise its standard-setting 
authority in a way that really advances grid efficiency and 
clears the way for rapid clean energy development. And the 
Department, for instance, could choose to establish an 
efficiency standard for electricity conductors that promotes 
the use of modern and efficient advanced conductors across the 
grid. Reconductoring existing transmission with advanced 
conductors can double corridor capacity. It can lower line 
losses. Customers can experience significant savings all 
without the decades-long planning challenges that the Chairman 
is all too familiar with. Would you work with my office to 
evaluate how DOE can promote the deployment of advanced 
conductors as one of our transmission solutions?
    Mr. Marootian. Senator Heinrich, I would be delighted to.
    Senator Heinrich. Chairman, I have four seconds left, so I 
am going to give back all that time.
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. Hickenlooper will probably use it when he 
gets time.
    So now we have Senator Cassidy.
    Senator Cassidy. First, Mr. Crane, the most important 
question, is your wife, Miss de la Houssaye, by maiden name, 
from Louisiana? That is a very common Louisiana name, although 
Isabella is not.
    Mr. Crane. Yes, my wife is Isabella de la Houssaye from 
Crowley, Louisiana.
    Senator Cassidy. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. You got my vote.
    Mr. Crane. And her mother was the Republican mayor of 
Crowley, Louisiana for eight years.
    Senator Cassidy. That is wonderful. And is she related to 
the jockey that did so well?
    Mr. Crane. Not that I know of, but you know----
    Senator Cassidy. You ought to claim him.
    Listen, on a more serious note, again, thank you all for 
your participation. Mr. Crane, when negotiating the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure bill, we established a compromise, and that was 
bipartisan. It was really bipartisan, and it kind of reflected 
that which folks from the left and the right would agree to. 
And on clean hydrogen, we struck the agreement as two kilograms 
of carbon dioxide equivalent per kilogram of hydrogen produced 
at the point of production--at the point of production. And so 
this was done to ensure we made progress in lowering the 
emissions, but to make sure that only emissions within the 
fence line were being considered. Now, one of the frustrating 
things is, DOE has released draft guidance defining clean 
hydrogen based upon the full life cycle. That is clearly a 
deviation from what the infrastructure bill said, which means 
they are going to get sued, which means all of this is going to 
be delayed.
    I mean, this is so dad-gum predictable, and I hate it when 
agencies defy Congress. This is literally defying Congress. So 
that said, and because of that suit, this is going to have a 
delayed deployment, I mean, just period. It is going to have a 
delayed deployment. So can you explain to me in the role that 
you are nominated to fill, how you are going to ensure that the 
Department of Energy actually pays attention to the letter, as 
clearly written in the law, and implements requirements as 
written, and will you commit to doing so?
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Senator, for the question. And to 
answer your question directly, I will absolutely commit to look 
into the matter you are talking about and to do everything to 
make sure that no roadblocks, you know, develop in terms of the 
prompt implementation of the hydrogen legislation across the 
full range of permitting and all the questions that you are 
talking about. I absolutely commit to do that.
    Senator Cassidy. And philosophically, do you feel as if--
now this is a philosophical question and this is independent 
because it just helps me--do you think the Administration is, 
because some of your previous writings which suggest you might 
be sympathetic to this, would be justified in considering the 
full life cycle as opposed to just the fence line? What are 
your thoughts on that?
    Mr. Crane. Senator, the full life-cycle analysis, as far as 
I understand, is not the dispositive criteria. It is one factor 
that is being looked at. But it is very complicated to figure 
out when you are doing a full lifestyle, you know, evaluation 
of basically any human activity, it is very hard to know where 
you draw the line. So I don't necessarily believe it's not 
something to be looked at, but again, in my two months at the 
DOE, I have not actually sensed any desire to flout the will of 
Congress. In fact, particularly with the hydrogen provisions, I 
have been in meetings where members of the Department of Energy 
are poring over every word in the legislation to make sure that 
the FOAs that go out, you know, meet the intent of Congress. 
And I commit to you that we will continue to play right down 
the middle of the fairway, as Congress intends.
    Senator Cassidy. Next, if you will--thank you for that--the 
United States, if you look at oil brought to the coast of 
Louisiana for refining, the oil with the lowest life-cycle 
emissions is that which comes off the Gulf of Mexico--the Outer 
Continental Shelf. And yet, this Administration has had a 
reluctance to lease and to permit development of U.S. resources 
on federal lands. And instead, we are bringing in oil and gas 
from--at least oil--from other countries, which actually has a 
higher life-cycle greenhouse gas emission profile. Now, this is 
incredibly frustrating for an Administration which claims that 
it wants to lower emissions--to favor products from other 
countries, by the way the jobs are going there as well.
    So what are your thoughts? Does it make sense that the 
United States is prejudiced against developing resources in 
North America, creating American jobs and having a lower life-
cycle emission profile or not, I guess?
    Mr. Crane. Senator, I support the proposition that domestic 
production is always going to be favored to, you know, any 
foreign source of oil or any other strategic commodity or 
strategic mineral. I am not personally familiar with the carbon 
footprint of oil from different parts of the world, but I 
accept what you are saying, but I always would prefer domestic 
over foreign. Yes, I would say that is not part of my remit, 
you know, in the Under Secretary position, the specific issue 
of oil and gas drilling on federal lands is not part of my----
    Senator Cassidy. I understand that. It gives me a sense of 
your philosophy.
    Mr. Crane. I favor domestic production over foreign. I 
cannot go into too much----
    Senator Cassidy. I understand.
    Mr. Crane. I am from the electricity side of the business, 
not the oil and gas.
    Senator Cassidy. Yes, but your writings suggest that your 
vision is greater. So with that, I yield back and thank you and 
I thank Ms. de la Houssaye.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Welcome to the all of the nominees and your families. To 
ensure the fitness of nominees for the positions that they have 
been nominated to, I ask the following two questions of all 
nominees before any of the committees on which I sit. So I will 
ask the questions of you.
    Since you became a legal adult, have you ever made unwanted 
requests for a sexual favor or committed any verbal or physical 
harassment or assault of a sexual nature? We will start with 
you, Mr. Crane and just go right down the line.
    Mr. Crane. No, I have not, Senator.
    Mr. Marootian. No, Senator, I have not.
    Mr. Rodrigues. No, Senator, I have not.
    Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered 
into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
    Mr. Crane. Absolutely not, Senator.
    Mr. Marootian. No, Senator, I have not.
    Mr. Rodrigues. No, Senator, I have not.
    Senator Hirono. Mr. Marootian, Hawaii has set an ambitious 
standard of 100 percent renewable power by 2045, and Hawaii has 
reached nearly 40 percent renewable power, but our state still 
relies on oil for most of its electricity. Families and 
businesses in Hawaii have had to watch their power bills go up 
along with the global price of oil. Solar power costs have 
fallen by over 80 percent in the last decade alone, and 
renewable power is now the cheapest source of power in most 
places. That does not even count the public health benefits 
from reducing air pollution or reducing the costly impacts of 
climate change. What do you think are the biggest challenges to 
bringing low-cost renewable power to people, and what will you 
do to address those challenges if you are confirmed?
    Mr. Marootian. Thank you so much, Senator Hirono, for that 
question, and I think that is the exact right question that we 
should be asking right now. The team at EERE is focused on 
doing cutting-edge R&D work to help drive costs of all of these 
technologies down even further, and the important thing that we 
need to do is look to scale these technologies, to bring them 
to the grid and to microgrids in some places so that we can 
really expand the accessibility. And that is the work that the 
Department is doing at EERE in conjunction with the 
demonstration and deployment side of the agency that is being 
stood up underneath the Under Secretary's office. There is a 
real opportunity for us to take these kinds of technologies 
from the lab to the street, as Secretary Granholm has said. And 
if confirmed, I look forward to doing that.
    Senator Hirono. Do you think we are doing enough to come up 
with storage, battery storage for intermittent power?
    Mr. Marootian. Thank you for that question, Senator.
    Battery storage is something that the Department is very 
keenly focused on. There are a number of technological 
applications that are currently being evaluated in partnering 
with industry to help advance battery storage. That is the key. 
That is the missing piece for really bringing some of these 
technologies to scale. And so I certainly look forward to 
working with my colleagues, if confirmed, on how to advance 
battery storage.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you.
    Mr. Crane, I have consistently supported DOE's efforts to 
not just research clean energy technologies, but to also help 
demonstrate and deploy those technologies to help ensure that 
people benefit from energy that is cleaner, more reliable, and 
more affordable. Given the historic funding that Congress has 
given DOE in the last two years to advance clean energy, I 
support Secretary Granholm's decision to establish the Under 
Secretary of Energy for Infrastructure and your nomination. In 
addition to your other work, you have served on the board of 
the Elemental Excelerator--I should know this, after all, they 
are in Hawaii--a non-profit in Hawaii that is an incubator for 
clean energy and climate technology startup companies. So I am 
really glad that just as my colleague was establishing ties to 
Louisiana, you have ties to Hawaii.
    What more should DOE do to help deploy new energy 
technologies to give people cleaner and more affordable energy 
in their homes, vehicles, and businesses?
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Senator, for the question, and thank 
you for your support for innovation in this space. And I just 
want to tell you that amongst the many things I had to stop 
doing in order to take this job, stepping down from the board 
of the Elemental Excelerator in Hawaii was one of the most 
painful decisions. I wept over that because the Excelerator is 
significantly funded by the Department of the Navy.
    Senator Hirono. Yes.
    Mr. Crane. The concept of it is tremendous, to take these 
early emerging technologies and demonstrate them, and using an 
island grid like you have in Hawaii, it is just one of the most 
remarkable things out there. So after that advertisement for 
the Elemental Excelerator, I would actually say to you, the 
direct answer to your question is, I think you and Congress 
have done everything that you need to do. It is up to us at the 
Department of Energy to implement with the tools that you have 
put in our hands. And so that is the most direct answer I would 
give.
    Oh, well, actually, I should say, I would love to see some 
sort of permitting bill pass because, again, it is--we have all 
this money and what I am very concerned about is we see these 
meritorious projects, they are ready to go and then they get 
hung up on a particular permit. So if there is one thing I 
could ask of this Congress, it would be progress on the 
permitting front.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, my time is up so I will submit my questions 
for Mr. Marootian and for Mr. Rodrigues for the record.
    The Chairman. Thank you for that last comment, Mr. Crane. 
We really appreciate your support for the permitting. It is the 
key to getting everything. If not, there is going to be a lot 
of money stranded that shouldn't be.
    With that, we are so grateful that Senator Hoeven is with 
us today. Thank you, Senator. It is good to see you.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is good to see 
you, my friend. Thank you.
    Mr. Crane, thanks for coming in yesterday and visiting. As 
we discussed, we have carbon capture projects underway in North 
Dakota--not only a coal gasification plant, but two of our 
large coal-fired electric plants. Also, I didn't mention, at 
least while I was there--maybe you discussed with some of my 
staff members, but we also have biofuel plants that are 
implementing. One already has. Another one is in process.
    So talk to me about how the programs you have, how you 
intend to deploy them to help us make this happen, not only in 
our state, but across the country. And there are three 
components to that that we have worked very hard to pass, and 
certainly the Chairman has been very involved with that and 
gets big thanks for it, and obviously, it's committee, but that 
includes not only front-end funding to help with the technology 
that has to be put on these plants to capture the 
CO2 so that it can sequestered, also the loan 
guarantees. And then, of course, the 45Q tax credit, which is 
really overseen by Treasury, but obviously has to be 
coordinated with the other programs. So in your job, assure me 
that you are going to help deploy those programs so that we can 
accomplish this carbon capture.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Senator, for the question, and for 
the time yesterday. I cannot only assure you that I will 
implement those programs, I will implement them with great 
enthusiasm, and as I know you know that we have already put out 
the first FOA for carbon capture, which is more for FEED 
studies. We are going to be putting out a second one within the 
next few months for the large-scale projects and yes, I will 
implement them enthusiastically. And as we discussed, 45Q is a 
huge incentive and you know, I have taken back your concerns 
about overlapping programs to see just what the rules are, but 
I am, you know, 45Q can be done alongside of our money. It is 
just the one thing that cannot be done by statute is the loan 
and the grant in the same project. But even that, it is a 
question of how you define the project.
    Senator Hoeven. Right. And you are committed to working on 
that with----
    Mr. Crane. I am absolutely committed to working with you 
and your staff on that.
    Senator Hoeven. Okay. Thank you.
    Mr. Rodrigues, talk to me a little bit about baseload in 
terms of grid reliability. Obviously, coal-fired electric 
provides a lot of that baseload now. That is why we are working 
so ardently on the carbon capture piece. And as Mr. Crane and I 
discussed yesterday, this is not the first rodeo. We have done 
this with SOX. We have done this with 
NOX. We have done this with mercury, okay? So now we 
are going to do it with CO2, but we need that 
baseload electricity. What is your role in making sure that we 
keep baseload electricity as part of the mix to stabilize the 
grid?
    Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you very much, Senator Hoeven and 
thank you for the opportunity to meet with your staff 
yesterday. We had a tremendous conversation. I will say that 
your question calls out something that is critically important 
for the American people to understand, and that is the 
complexity of the energy system. To ensure reliability, which 
is job number one for the Department of Energy, along with 
affordability, security, and other attributes, we need a mix of 
resources that can be used in different ways. Baseload energy 
is critically important. And that is why, I think, the work of 
the Department looking to find ways to do carbon capture 
utilization and storage is one of the most important 
breakthroughs that we can work on today. Within the 
jurisdiction of the Office of Electricity, what we will be 
doing is exactly this, ensuring that each and every state's 
policy decisions, policy preferences, and decisions made about 
the resource mix that they want to have to serve their 
constituents, their citizens, that the grid is enabled to take 
those resources and affordably get them to the American people 
and do so reliably and safely as well.
    Senator Hoeven. And natural gas has a continued important 
role in that effort as well?
    Mr. Rodrigues. I absolutely believe that is the case, sir.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
    Mr. Marootian, the EERC--Energy and Environmental Research 
Center at the University of North Dakota, are you familiar with 
it?
    Mr. Marootian. No, sir, I am not.
    Senator Hoeven. Okay. Well, they have for a long time 
worked with DOE, particularly on the fossil side, but they have 
also been trying to establish a relationship with DOE on the 
renewable piece. How would you recommend that we go about 
building that relationship with you, a cooperative agreement 
type of relationship with the EERE?
    Mr. Marootian. Senator Hoeven, I certainly would welcome 
the opportunity to speak with representatives and establish 
that open line of communication. I think the Department--EERE's 
ability to provide technical assistance to states, to 
universities, to research centers, is key. It is something I am 
deeply committed to and look forward to working with your 
office, if confirmed, on that.
    Senator Hoeven. Yes, and I would invite you to come to the 
EERC and see what they can offer because it is tremendous, and 
I would actually invite all three of you to come to North 
Dakota and we will be following up with you on that. You might 
want to come in the summer, but it is up to you, but we 
definitely want to invite you and get you out there.
    Mr. Marootian. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, sir.
    And now, we have Senator Hickenlooper.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great, thank you, Mr. Chair and 
thanks to all three of you for your commitment to public 
service and being willing to go through this kind of 
interrogation. Let me start with Mr. Marootian. I knew a 
Marootian when I was younger, but with a name like 
Hickenlooper, I can discuss phonetics.
    Historically, DOE's national labs such as NREL and Golden, 
which you will oversee if confirmed, have in many ways been our 
secret weapon in developing new energy innovations and bringing 
them to market. Going forward, we are going to increasingly 
rely on these labs to guide us to some of the energy questions 
with this big transition. The transition--obviously, the 
importance of getting this mapped out and together is very, 
very important, whether it is transition build-out to simply 
operating a system that is on a, you know, diverse mix of 
generation sources. So how do you envision using DOE labs and 
NREL, in particular, to help inform U.S. industry and 
policymakers about these questions?
    Mr. Marootian. Thank you for the question, Senator 
Hickenlooper, and thank you for your time last month, meeting 
with me. I agree with you. The national labs--NREL and all the 
17 labs are the agency's crown jewels. They have the tremendous 
capacity and potential to do really cutting-edge advanced 
research and development across the board, and they have a 
number of really solid partnerships already. I think it is 
critical that we expand those partnerships with industry and 
with consumers. And I think about, for example, the Clean 
Energy Cybersecurity Accelerator as a great industry 
partnership that is developing real-world, real-time solutions 
for industry, and I think about things like the SolarAPP, which 
is a technology that is consumer-facing that helps streamline 
permitting processes for customers who are looking for solar.
    So I think those are the kinds of partnerships that I would 
love to work on expanding, if confirmed. I have had the 
opportunity to meet with Dr. Keller several times, along with 
several of the other lab directors and very much look forward 
to working with them.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Terrific, thank you.
    Mr. Rodrigues, when we spoke we briefly discussed how 
electric vehicles might be able to help out in the power sector 
as we incorporate more variable generation on our grid, 
especially in things like vehicle-to-grid applications. We have 
a Bidirectional Act that you are aware of and would promote 
these kinds of innovations. With the right incentives in place 
it would seem that we could align the self-interest of vehicle 
owners, buses, grid operators, and utilities themselves. If you 
are confirmed, what role do you see for the Office of 
Electricity in helping to identify and promote the policies and 
standards and rate structures, you know, all this stuff to 
really deploy these promising technologies and innovations?
    Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you for that question, Senator, and 
thank you for taking the time to meet with me. I enjoyed our 
conversation and I hope we will be able to continue it further.
    I am absolutely, tremendously excited about the opportunity 
to take advantage of vehicle-to-grid, vehicle-to-everything, 
all the grid-edge sources out there. As we look around us right 
now outside these windows, the resource that we have the 
ability to tap into, as soon as we technologically just break 
through a couple more engineering barriers, it is grid-edge 
resources and vehicle-to-grid is one of those. As we discussed 
the other day, if and to the extent the grid is able to accept 
these resources, to integrate them, then we will have ways to 
increase reliability and increase affordability.
    May I make one last point on that?
    Senator Hickenlooper. Sure.
    Mr. Rodrigues. The Office of Electricity will be focused on 
those sorts of technologies and advancements that need to be 
made to ensure that the visibility of these resources, the 
controllability of these resources, and as you point out, the 
very important policies are in place to ensure that consumers 
recognize the value of being a beneficial part of how we 
control our grid.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Absolutely, and that won't be easy.
    Mr. Crane, I saved the best for. As a recovering geologist, 
and I think according to Mark Kelly I am the only scientist in 
the Senate. He claims he's only an engineer. I would debate 
that, but I cannot help but ask your perspective on this 
emerging issue, as geothermal energy becomes more widely 
accepted. I was interested to see DOE's new enhanced geothermal 
EarthShot, a department-wide initiative, which aims to achieve 
a 90 percent reduction in the cost of enhanced geothermal 
projects by 2035. Can you talk about the steps that you will 
take, if confirmed, to commercialize promising technologies 
like that, across DOE's agencies, perhaps using EarthShot as an 
example?
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Senator, for the question and maybe 
while your youth was well spent becoming a scientist, mine was 
misspent becoming a lawyer. So when we start talking about 
geology, you have me out of my depth, so to speak, but I think 
the geothermal EarthShot and the cross-cutting nature across 
the Department of Energy is very exciting, and geothermal is a 
very under-utilized resource that has more baseload 
characteristics. And so you know, the programs--right now it is 
more in the R&D side of the Department of Energy, but you know, 
we will support that on the demonstration and deployment side, 
wherever and whenever we can.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Perfect. Couldn't ask for more. 
Great. Thanks.
    Thanks to all three. It was the first time I have gotten a 
question to all three when we have had three people up here. So 
these are concise answers. This is a direction the government 
needs to move in.
    The Chairman. It is because our----
    Senator Heinrich. It is because you were so succinct.
    The Chairman [continuing]. Resident scientist asked the 
question.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Hickenlooper. I doubt that.
    The Chairman. Senator Cantwell.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you for 
this important hearing and all of you for your willingness to 
serve. These are very important positions and certainly, I 
appreciate the focus that you brought to this morning's 
feedback in answering questions.
    Mr. Rodrigues, I would like to drill down a little more. 
You and I had a chance to meet, but obviously the Pacific 
Northwest National Laboratory has been a critical contributor 
on electricity issues since its inception in grid 
modernization, cybersecurity, energy storage, all of those 
things. They are the home to the largest collection of power 
system engineers and will soon be home to the Office of 
Electricity's new Grid Storage Launchpad, which will provide a 
place to accelerate and vindicate grid-scale storage, so very 
important. Obviously, we are very interested in smart grid 
technology and moving forward on the Office of Electricity's 
support of the Grid Storage Launchpad once it opens in 2024. So 
I wanted to ask you about the investment in time frame because 
utility operators and consumers agreed to dynamically control 
large electrical loads like EV chargers, water heaters, pumps, 
all of these things that we have to do to drive down cost and 
look at consumer affordability. I think they released a study 
that showed if this technology were used across the country, it 
would cut peak loads by up to 15 percent and deliver $50 
billion in economic benefits to customers.
    So how do you see the Grid Storage Launchpad moving forward 
with PNNL and helping to roll this out?
    Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you for that question, Senator 
Cantwell and again, thank you for taking time to meet with me 
yesterday. Let me start with a personal story. I have been in 
the energy industry some 32 years. When I first entered that, 
some 32 years ago, I remember having a conversation with one of 
the leads of the utility on the technology side saying, you 
know what the next breakthrough is for renewable energy? 
Storage. And that is because from a utility perspective, the 
thing that makes these technologies used and useful in making 
affordable energy and reliable energy for people is the ability 
to control the portfolio of resources you have. Grid storage, I 
believe, represents the most important breakthrough our country 
can make, and the PNNL is fortunate and we are fortunate that 
it is the home of the Grid Storage Launchpad. That is going to 
put out not just a good rigorous technology demonstration, but 
it is intellectually rigorous plus muscular in terms of the 
size and the breadth of the effort. I am very excited about the 
work being done there.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    Mr.--I want to say this right--Marootian?
    Mr. Marootian. Marootian.
    The Chairman. Feel free, if you have to--Jeff.
    Mr. Marootian. Perfect.
    Senator Cantwell. Okay, Marootian.
    Obviously in the energy efficiency and renewable energy 
portfolio, PNNL is also a big player on renewable grid 
integration and coastal and marine integration as well. How do 
you think the role of the national labs would help support 
these priorities in moving forward on decarbonization?
    Mr. Marootian. Thank you, Senator Cantwell, for that 
question.
    I have had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Ashby and very 
much, if confirmed, look forward to working with the PNNL team. 
They are doing some cutting-edge research and work across the 
board, and I think it is critical that we, as a Department, 
focus on how to take the R&D work that is being done at the 
labs and apply it to real-world applications, and I look 
forward to doing that, if confirmed.
    Senator Cantwell. And Mr. Crane, I understand PNNL was one 
of the first labs you visited in your current role, so thank 
you. Given the strong capabilities the Department is invested 
in for many years, how do you plan to leverage these 
investments, particularly, you know, some of the things we need 
to do on the security side?
    Mr. Crane. Well, Senator, you are absolutely correct. The 
first national lab I got to visit was Pacific Northwest and it 
was truly awe inspiring, and I think the thing that personally 
most excited me about my visit was the work that was being done 
within that lab on next-generation electrolyzers, which will be 
essential to a highly successful hydrogen strategy, 
particularly as the current generation of electrolyzers that we 
are looking at, of course, rely on iridium, which is something 
that the United States does not have a supply of currently. So 
you know, we have to promote, you know, more special metals, 
domestic sources, but solid oxide electrolyzers. Where the work 
is being pioneered out in Washington State, I think, is 
something we have to focus on very quickly to accelerate and 
scale up.
    Senator Cantwell. I am not sure--you could probably explain 
it in a short period of time, but I look forward to helping 
everybody understand this cutting-edge change. I don't even, if 
you have a sound bite, you could say it, but----
    Mr. Crane. No.
    Senator Cantwell. Okay.
    Mr. Crane. No, no, no, as a lawyer, I am at the very edge 
of my technical understanding right now.
    Senator Cantwell. Yes. I think you can change a lot in 
manufacturing, I will just say that. I think it could be a game 
changer in manufacturing.
    Could I just, for the record, Mr. Chairman, I know we have 
people who want to ask a second question.
    The Chairman. Sure.
    Senator Cantwell. Mr. Rodrigues, you and I also had a 
conversation about grid fiber. The Chairman literally pioneered 
this idea in his state, with people working together on grid 
fiber as a way to drive a smarter grid, and do you think that a 
program to encourage more utility investment in grid fiber is a 
good idea?
    Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you for that question, Senator 
Cantwell. I don't think it's a good idea, I think it's an 
excellent idea.
    Senator Cantwell. Great. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Okay.
    Senator Murkowski.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Gentlemen, thank you for your willingness to step up into 
some of these key positions. Many of us on this Committee were 
very involved in the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. 
Folks in my state are really anxious about how this is 
implemented, how this law is implemented. We have already seen 
a great return to our state, and it is no wonder, given that we 
lack significantly when it comes to basic infrastructure, 
everything from water and waste water to broadband to things 
like roads and rails and bridges, ports and harbors, and of 
course, ferries. So we have a lot of work to do there and you, 
in your respective positions that you have been nominated to, 
certainly Mr. Crane, you will be deeply involved in shepherding 
much of this as we look to upgrade and modernize our nation's 
energy infrastructure.
    I don't know the extent to which any of the three of you 
have had an opportunity to come to Alaska, but I will make a 
public request to each of you, if confirmed, that you will make 
the effort to do so. The Chairman has been to Alaska numerous 
times. Senator Heinrich has been. Many members of this 
Committee have been up, and I think every time any one of you 
goes up, you realize how much you don't know about the state 
because it is just so vast and its needs are so great. So I am 
going to encourage all of you to do just that.
    Mr. Crane, let me ask you a question regarding critical 
minerals, and I do think it is timely that I just presented the 
Chairman with--I don't know if it's a gift, Mr. Chairman, but I 
know it is certainly within the allowable limits. It is a hunk 
of natural graphite from the Graphite One prospect just outside 
of Nome. But we talk a lot about critical minerals in my state 
and what that means and why they are so important.
    Mr. Crane, you have indicated that you think that it is 
important, in fact, it needs to be a priority to be able to 
access our resources domestically--not only our energy 
resources, but I am assuming when it comes to critical 
minerals, you feel that way as well. I have been a little bit 
frustrated with some of the things that we have seen from this 
Administration. They are saying the right words about accessing 
our critical minerals, not being reliant on places like China, 
which, we know, we are so heavily, heavily reliant, but they 
are saying one thing and then certainly with initiatives in my 
state, it seems that they are going the other way. We are 
seeing permits being pulled. We are seeing rights-of-way being 
rescinded. Applications for funding being passed up on.
    So just if you can speak generally to me as the nominee for 
Under Secretary for Infrastructure, whether you agree that 
infrastructure for critical mineral supply and processing in 
this country is important, is lacking, do you think that 
accessing is a challenge and what, basically, can you do to 
assure me that there is a plan here to help address our 
nation's critical shortage when it comes to these minerals?
    Mr. Crane. Senator, thank you for the question, and let me 
start by saying I completely agree with you that this is an 
essential area that needs to be addressed. There is no point in 
just switching from dependence on foreign sources of oil and 
gas to foreign sources on other technologies where we have this 
Achilles' heel of not, you know, getting the minerals from 
China.
    In the Under Secretary Infrastructure vertical hierarchy, 
there is a manufacturing and supply chain office which has been 
funded with several billions of dollars, which is very 
carefully looking at this and is going to be identifying areas 
where we can directly lean in, in terms of ensuring those 
supplies. And so I am extremely supportive of that and will 
implement that vigorously. And if you don't mind, going back to 
your opening comment, if I get confirmed and get invited, I 
will come to Alaska, but last month Secretary Granholm and I 
spent a whole day with the tribal and indigenous leaders here 
in Washington. I know that is not the same thing as actually 
being on the spot, but I understand the issues of the remote 
communities, the energy needs in your area, and there is, I 
think, a lot we need to do to enable them to access the rural 
and remote provisions of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, and 
I would very much look forward to working with you and your 
staff to make that happen.
    Senator Murkowski. Well, consider yourself invited. In 
fact, I have already got a place in mind. We would like to take 
you up to the North Slope area, and in particular, the 
community of Utqiagvik. There is a facility up there, DOE's 
research facility at Oliktok Point. It is a great example of 
how federal and state agencies, as well as students from our 
university, can benefit from continued collaboration. So we 
think that assets like this are important to help out our 
national labs when we think about the scientific initiatives 
that are underway there. So you are invited as well as the 
other nominees here.
    Just very, very quickly, because I do not want to go over 
my time too greatly, but I did want to ask you, Mr. Marootian, 
given that your career has focused primarily on transportation 
issues here in the District, I know you were asked earlier 
about your qualifications to be the Assistant Secretary here, 
but I am looking for a better understanding in terms of what 
you will do to make sure that you understand what it means to 
be in a very, very large geographically positioned state with 
very few people, where, for us, you know, it is a microgrid 
system that is really providing the reliability. It is 
basically a couple wind turbines synched up with a battery 
storage that looks like it is nothing more than just a storage 
shed out there on the tundra. And this is where we have a very 
unique aspect. So I am hoping too that not only you can 
translate your understanding or your base of knowledge with how 
these systems work in urban places, but that you have a 
willingness or perhaps you do have some background there that 
you can share with me very briefly.
    Mr. Marootian. Thank you, Senator Murkowski. I see Alaska 
as truly an all-of-the-above state. I realize the significant 
resources, from oil and gas, to wind, to hydroelectric, to 
geothermal, and certainly understand and recognize that the 
rural and remote nature of some communities does make grid 
access very difficult. It translates into, as you know, higher 
costs for importing fuel, for example. And I think that there 
are a number of applications, a number of ways that EERE can be 
supportive of Alaska, continuing the partnership between NREL 
and the Cold Climate Housing Research Center, for one. 
Advancing the research and development on a number of 
technologies that support the microgrid--onsite geothermal, for 
example. Biomass, a number of other types of technologies that 
can apply onsite. And harnessing the state's abundant 
hydroelectric potential as well. So those are some of the ways 
that I think we can partner. I certainly, as somebody who comes 
from a local government background, truly recognize how 
important it is that place-based solutions be applied, that 
communities are met where they are. I very much look forward, 
if confirmed, to working with your office, with the Arctic 
Energy Office, with the Indian Energy Office at DOE, and 
certainly look forward to visiting the state as well.
    Senator Murkowski. Good. Well, you used all the right 
buzzwords. Somebody must have just really plugged you in on 
Alaska there because we are talking about the need for greater 
affordability, certainly, but also place-based solutions.
    And Mr. Rodrigues, I would hope that you too recognize in 
this position that you have been nominated to, when you are 
talking about grid deployment and energy reliability, that that 
reliability really is so tightly keyed to affordability.
    Mr. Rodrigues. I absolutely agree with that premise, 
Senator, and I also would say I view it not just as an 
obligation of the Office of Electricity to pay attention to and 
develop ways for Alaska's remote microgrid system to become 
more reliable, more resilient, but also more affordable. It is 
a moral obligation that we do our best to ensure that we have 
technological answers for the needs of your state.
    Senator Murkowski. Too many communities are still powered 
by diesel, and they are locked into fuel prices that were set a 
couple months ago. So I have communities that are still paying 
in excess of $10 a gallon for home heating fuel and they are 
going to be paying that until the next barge arrives in June. 
So for us, affordability is key.
    Mr. Rodrigues. You have my absolute commitment that we will 
give this issue our hardest and most focused attention.
    Senator Murkowski. Very good.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am well over my time, but I 
think you were writing with your hunk of graphite there.
    The Chairman. Just a little.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you.
    The Chairman. No problem, but thank you.
    Real quick. We are coming to an end here. I have just a 
couple questions, and I think Senator Heinrich might have a 
follow-up question, okay? If I can?
    So Mr. Rodrigues, on that, on reliability, which we have 
talked about, you know, your job and your experience with the 
SoCal Edison, I think, puts you in a unique position. You have 
an important mission focused on grid reliability, resiliency, 
and modernization. I think we all agree our North American grid 
is the envy and the marvel of engineering for the whole world, 
but ongoing changes in the generation of mix that we are seeing 
with all of the new technology, outside forces, cyber threats, 
and weather events that test the grid, also highlight the 
importance of a resilient grid of how we can harden this grid. 
So what do you view as the most pressing concern for the Office 
of Electricity to address in that realm?
    Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you for that question, Senator 
Manchin. I think it is very insightful. I will say this: the 
number one task, the number one role of the Office of 
Electricity is to ensure that the American power system, the 
American grid, is reliable, because without energy reliability, 
nothing else matters to the American people. And may I add just 
one thing to it? The thing that makes me so gosh darn excited 
about being able to have the opportunity, if confirmed, to work 
at the Office of Electricity is that the leadership in 
technology, economics, and environmentalism that our office can 
bring through the research, development, and demonstration is 
not just going to help the American people, but it will allow 
us, as a country, as a nation, to help our allies around the 
world to remain secure and have affordable energy as well.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    And Mr. Marootian--Jeff--I was determined to get that right 
before this meeting was up. When it comes to transportation, I 
think it is irresponsible to put all our eggs in one basket, in 
one single technology, because some may be more viable than 
others depending on the type of use that is demanded. For 
instance, when it comes to long-distance trucking, hydrogen may 
be a more viable option than battery electric vehicles. And I 
say that because fuel cell systems are traditionally lighter 
than batteries and refueling time is faster than using an EV 
charger. So it makes an awful lot of sense. Since your 
background is in transportation, what are your views on 
hydrogen use in the transportation sector and the applications 
that are the most viable for hydrogen?
    Mr. Marootian. Thank you, Chairman Manchin.
    I agree. I think there is tremendous promise in hydrogen 
for medium and heavy-duty trucking, to marine shipping, and a 
number of other applications as well. The Department has an 
incredible team working on hydrogen, led by Dr. Sunita 
Satyapal, and I very much look forward, if confirmed, to 
working with them to advance these technologies, to help bring 
the cost down, and also partnering with the Under Secretary's 
Office as the hydrogen hubs get stood up. There is a tremendous 
opportunity here for us to scale these technologies and bring 
them into real-world applications.
    The Chairman. Well, we are putting an awful lot of 
investment and a lot of hope into having this alternative fuel, 
which we think is going to be tremendous for our country.
    And with that, Mr. Heinrich.
    Mr. Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
    Mr. Marootian, the Inflation Reduction Act really provided 
incredible consumer-facing, cost-saving rebates for energy 
efficient electric appliances--things like induction stoves, 
heat pumps, air-sourced heat pump water heaters--but because 
these things have been developed in recent years, many 
Americans are simply unaware of these technologies and what 
they can mean for their health and their pocketbook. How can 
your office better educate Americans about the opportunities 
for better health outcomes and lower costs through home 
electrification?
    Mr. Marootian. Thank you, Senator Heinrich, for that 
question. It is something that I have thought a lot about, and 
as a former local government official, I have relied heavily on 
the Federal Government for technical assistance and for 
information, and I know that there are many people who do not 
have as easy access to that information. And so it is urgently 
critical that we provide as much information as possible to 
consumers, and that we partner with as many local governments 
and state governments as possible to make sure that folks are 
getting this information so that they understand how they can 
access rebates and credits, but also so that they have the 
opportunity to see what available technologies are out there. 
And so I very much look forward to working with your office on 
that.
    Senator Heinrich. And I would just add contractors and 
labor. I mean, the first time I installed an air-sourced heat 
pump water heater, I have a fantastic plumber, and they were 
like, I don't know what to do with this. And now, they are 
installing those left and right and they are saving people 
money and they love them. So we have to do that education piece 
if we are going to have uptake in a meaningful amount of time.
    Mr. Rodrigues, thanks for meeting with me the other day. I 
know there have been concerns posed by DOE and industry about 
the lack of domestic manufacturing of large power transformers, 
the supply chain issues around transformers. What are your 
thoughts on the need for spurring more domestic manufacturing 
or even a national reserve of some sort of large power 
transformers and distribution transformers?
    Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you very much for that question. It is 
an incredibly important issue for America. Writ large, the 
issue of energy independence comes down to availability and our 
ability to make useful and productive use of resources right 
here at home. Transformers, as we sit here today, have two 
challenges for them. Number one, without advancements in 
transformer mechanics, they are built kind of on a custom 
basis, one at a time, which creates a lag in getting 
transformers to the grid, especially if you have a resiliency 
issue where you are trying to recover the system. The Office of 
Electricity is already doing research and working on 
demonstrating the notion of flexible transformers that have 
greater application and can be on the shelf for multiple uses. 
And I think that is the kind of real-world thinking that the 
Office of Electricity is already doing, that I hope to be able 
to put even more strategic intent and more focus on.
    Senator Heinrich. Great. No, that is a great answer.
    One, I want to thank David for articulating that we need 
resilient, reliable, efficient--I think it was safe, 
affordable, reliable, and effectively clean, right? We need all 
of those things at this point. And you know, one of the 
technologies we have not spent a ton of time talking about, and 
Mr. Rodrigues, we did this a little bit in the office, but 
given the challenges that we have with transmission and given 
the challenges that we have with permitting that Mr. Crane 
alluded to in his comments today, how do we look at dynamic 
line ratings, advanced conductors, transmission monitoring, 
topology optimization, power flow controls, and get those 
things out, given that they are already proven, into the 
ecosystem so that yes, we are going to have to build more 
transmission, we know we are going to have to do that because 
demand is going to go up, but we can also use these things to 
buy us time and make a more resilient grid?
    Mr. Rodrigues. Thank you for that question, Senator. It 
underscores the importance of a common-sense approach to 
dealing with transmission issues. And just as we were talking 
about an all-of-the-above energy strategy before, we need an 
all-of-the-above transmission strategy. Everything that you 
mentioned are areas where the Office of Electricity is 
currently working to do grid enhancement so you don't have to 
be delayed by the process it takes to get new transmission 
corridors permitted, up, and built. That is a long, long time. 
The American people need faster answers than that.
    The grid enhancement technologies that the OE has on its 
shelf are important for us, and we are demonstrating right now. 
Part of our conversation yesterday, and I will be very brief 
about this, is we need to understand that this is a system of 
decision-makers. It is not just the technology answer. It is 
about making sure that utilities feel that this technology is 
certain and credible and will serve their people over the 
useful life of 20 to 30 years. Regulators need to understand 
the benefits of the system, as do advocates and ratepayer 
advocates alike. So I view the role of the Office of 
Electricity as becoming a lot more loud and a lot more engaged 
in conversations with everyone who is part of the decision-
making process for getting technology off the shelves and put 
to productive use.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
    The Chairman. I want to thank all of our nominees and thank 
their families for attending and we appreciate your being here 
this morning, your responsiveness to our questions and 
concerns, and your willingness to take on these important jobs 
and serve our country. I still believe public service is the 
noblest of all professions and you all should feel very good 
about that.
    Members will have until 6:00 p.m. tomorrow to submit 
additional questions for the record.
    And this meeting is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:41 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

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