[Senate Hearing 117-507]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 117-507

                   STOPPING SENIOR SCAMS: EMPOWERING
                       COMMUNITIES TO FIGHT FRAUD

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS


                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             WASHINGTON, DC

                               __________

                           SEPTEMBER 22, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-23

         Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging
         
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]         


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                               __________

                                
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
49-819 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2023                    
          
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                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

              ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania, Chairman

KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine
ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      RICHARD BURR, North Carolina
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  MARCO RUBIO, Florida
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             RICK SCOTT, Florida
                                     MIKE LEE, Utah
                              ----------                              
                 Stacy Sanders, Majority Staff Director
                 Neri Martinez, Minority Staff Director
                        
                        
                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

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                                                                   Page

Opening Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman......     1
Opening Statement of Senator Tim Scott, Ranking Member...........     2

                           PANEL OF WITNESSES

Marti DeLiema, Ph.D., Assistant Professor, University of 
  Minnesota School of Social Work, St. Paul, Minnesota...........     5
Nancy Pham-Klingler, Senior Adult Protective Service Specialist, 
  County of San Diego Health and Human Services Agency, San 
  Diego, California..............................................     6
Aurelia Costigan, Scam Survivor, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania........     8
Polly Fehler, Computer Scam Survivor, Retired Air Force Officer, 
  Seneca, South Carolina.........................................     9

                                APPENDIX
                      Prepared Witness Statements

Marti DeLiema, Ph.D., Assistant Professor, University of 
  Minnesota School of Social Work, St. Paul, Minnesota...........    27
Nancy Pham-Klingler, Senior Adult Protective Service Specialist, 
  County of San Diego Health and Human Services Agency, San 
  Diego, California..............................................    33
Aurelia Costigan, Scam Survivor, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania........    35
Polly Fehler, Computer Scam Survivor, Retired Air Force Officer, 
  Seneca, South Carolina.........................................    38

                        Questions for the Record

Marti DeLiema, Ph.D., Assistant Professor, University of 
  Minnesota School of Social Work, St. Paul, Minnesota...........    43
Aurelia Costigan, Scam Survivor, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania........    46
Polly Fehler, Computer Scam Survivor, Retired Air Force Officer, 
  Seneca, South Carolina.........................................    47

                       Statements for the Record

American Bankers Association Statement...........................    55
Dr. Marti DeLiema, Slides........................................    64

 
                   STOPPING SENIOR SCAMS: EMPOWERING
                      COMMUNITIES TO FIGHT FRAUD

                              ----------                              


                      THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 22, 2022

                                       U.S. Senate,
                                Special Committee on Aging,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., via 
Webex and Room 562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Robert 
P. Casey, Jr., Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Casey, Gillibrand, Blumenthal, Rosen, 
Warnock, Tim Scott, Collins, Braun, and Rick Scott.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                 ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., CHAIRMAN

    The Chairman. The hearing will come to order.
    We convene today to discuss a topic of the utmost 
importance to the Aging Committee: fighting frauds and scams 
targeting seniors. While these predatory schemes have existed 
for decades, we know that the pandemic has only exacerbated 
this issue, as fraudsters preyed on fear and uncertainty 
surrounding the virus. Federal agencies, State governments, and 
advocates all warn of con artists who will do among the 
following: they will pose as Federal and State agencies to 
steal benefits; they will falsify romantic relationships to 
gain a senior's trust; and by way of a third example, peddle 
fake health insurance and cures for the virus. Scammers are 
also using new payment methods, making losses difficult to 
trace.
    The Federal Trade Commission reports that gift cards are 
the main payment method used by scammers to request and steal 
money from older adults. In 2021, 27 percent of adults 60 and 
older who lost money paid a scammer using a gift card or a 
reloadable card. Peer-to-peer payment apps, like Zelle, Venmo, 
CashApp, and PayPal, are also increasingly used by scammers.
    Today Aurelia Costigan from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, will 
share her experience with a peer-to-peer payment scam. Ms. 
Costigan's story is all too common. Scammers' requests of 
payments from seniors by way of these apps have increased 
exponentially, from two percent in 2017 to ten percent in 2021. 
That is why I recently led a letter to the Consumer Financial 
Protection Bureau urging the agency to move forward with 
guidance, guidance to protect older adults from con artists 
using these apps. I would like to thank the members of the 
Committee who joined the letter: Senator Blumenthal, Senator 
Warren, and Senator Gillibrand. Strong guidance and enforcement 
are critical, as is education on preventing and responding to 
these scams. I am also proud that my Stop Senior Scams Act was 
signed into law in March of this year.
    Thanks to Senator Moran, Senator Kelly, and Ranking Member 
Scott for working alongside me and others to pass this 
important legislation. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott, for 
that work. This law creates a Senior Scams Advisory Council to 
ensure that banks and other businesses have both the 
information and the tools that they need to train employees to 
identify and respond to scams. We are grateful to the Federal 
Trade Commission for its work to lead this effort and pleased 
that this new Council will hold its first convening one week 
from today.
    Finally, Ranking Member Scott and I are releasing our 2022 
Fraud Book. Here is it, and I will hold up both versions in 
English and in Spanish. We are releasing this; as many of you 
know, we have done this on an annual basis, but this is the 
2022 book, which arms older adults with the information that 
they need to protect themselves from scammers. This new and 
improved Fraud Book is available today in both English and in 
Spanish. The Fraud Book highlights the ten most common scams 
reported to the Committee's Fraud Hotline, which is staffed 
Monday through Friday 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. Eastern Time. Seniors 
and their loved ones can seek assistance with reporting fraud 
and getting connected to resources. The Fraud Hotline's toll-
free number is 1-855-303-9470.
    I will read that again. 1-855-303-9470.
    I am proud of the Committee's bipartisan leadership on this 
issue, but we know that we have a lot more work to do. We have 
a sacred duty to protect seniors and their families against 
these scammers, these criminals. I look forward to continuing 
to work together on this, and I will now turn to Ranking Member 
Scott for his opening statement.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                   TIM SCOTT, RANKING MEMBER

    Senator Scott. Thank you, Chairman Casey. Thank you for 
working in a bipartisan fashion on so many of the issues that 
impact our seniors across the country. The one thing about this 
Committee that I think all Americans can celebrate is the fact 
that this is a bipartisan effort to protect our seniors every 
step of the way, and we need more bipartisanship in Congress 
without any question, but I thank you for your leadership.
    I do think it is important to once again reinforce the 
hotline. This is the 10th anniversary of the Aging Committee's 
Fraud Hotline. The number, again, as Chairman Casey has said a 
couple of times, is 855-303-9470.
    It is so important for our seniors to know that there is 
help out there, and one of the easiest ways for our seniors to 
find that help is to call the hotline when necessary.
    Seniors often live alone or are isolated. Loved ones and 
vulnerable people are not there for them. I would say that when 
you think about the scams, the devastating effect it has on 
people with fixed incomes is undeniable, and it is really hard 
to replace income when you are on a fixed income.
    On average, seniors lose about $34,200 for every instance 
of a scam or fraud. In 2021, according to the FTC, scammers 
stole $1 billion from our seniors. A billion dollars. In 2021 
alone, in South Carolina, South Carolinians lost $48.4 million 
to scams and frauds. The consequences to the scams and 
fraudsters are many for our seniors, including losing 
purchasing power, trying to maintain good credit, affording the 
cost of their homes, losing sleep. It is an absolute 
catastrophic experience when one experiences a scam or fraud.
    Scams also have unseen consequences, leaving seniors 
depressed, embarrassed, and feeling betrayed. For example, Jo 
Saxton, a Navy veteran from Darlington, South Carolina, last 
year, she received a call from two scammers impersonating law 
enforcement. They told her that several people in Texas had 
stolen her Social Security number and opened up checking 
accounts, and in order for her to avoid the ramifications of 
law enforcement, she had to send them $22,000 in cash.
    Remember that this all happened over a single day. The 
sense of urgency and the pressure placed on these seniors to 
make fast decisions that have financial consequences that are 
devastating happen so quickly. Under this immense pressure, Jo 
sent two packages of cash, one to Baltimore, Maryland, the 
other to Little Rock, Arkansas. These people made her feel as 
though she had no other choice.
    The scam not only put Jo in tremendous financial loss, but 
also caused her to withdraw from family and friends. Although 
frauds like the ones we will discuss today are so common, each 
survivor's story is unique on how it affects their lives.
    As the Chairman said, we have our 2022 bipartisan Fraud 
Book, both in Spanish and English, detailing common scams and 
how to fight back. Identity theft was the second most reported 
fraud to the Committee's Fraud Hotline. Further, this year's 
Fraud Book provides critical information and tips on how to 
protect yourself. According to the FTC, identify theft was the 
number one scam in South Carolina in 2021, with 17,642 cases. 
One in four identity theft victims report experiencing sleep 
problems, increased anxiety, depression, and anger even six 
months after the crime.
    Scammers are not slowing down. Since 2002, we have seen a 
1,600-percent increase in reported scams. A 1,600-percent 
increase in reported scams. Unbelievable. In 2020, FTC reported 
4.9 million scams, and in 2021, that number was 5.7 million, an 
18-percent increase in the number. I am thrilled that the 
Council established by this act that Chairman Casey spoke about 
earlier, the Stop Seniors Scams Act, helps our seniors, and 
next week, we will see the first hearing. I look forward to 
hearing from our witnesses today.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott.
    Before I move to the introductions of our witnesses, I want 
to acknowledge the members who are here already. Senator 
Collins, the former Chair of this Committee, has been part of 
the effort of producing and publicizing Fraud Books in the 
past. We are grateful for her leadership.
    Senator Blumenthal is here from the State of Connecticut as 
well as Senator Scott from Florida.
    Let me move to our witnesses. Our first witness is Dr. 
Marti DeLiema. Dr. DeLiema is an assistant professor at the 
University of Minnesota School of Social Work. She is an 
interdisciplinary gerontologist with a specialization in 
financial victimization through frauds and scams. Dr. DeLiema 
has collaborated with a variety of financial institutions, 
aging organizations, and Federal agencies like the Federal 
Trade Commission. Doctor, welcome.
    Our second witness is Nancy Pham-Klingler. Nancy is a 
senior adult protective services specialist for San Diego 
County in California. She has dedicated her career to 
advocating for older adults, safeguarding their finances, and 
ensuring their safety. In 2021, she received the Chief 
Investigator's Commendation Award from the San Diego District 
Attorney's Bureau of Investigations for her efforts in 
recovering $75,000 for a senior in her community.
    Our third witness is a Pennsylvanian, Aurelia Costigan, 
born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, which is in 
Allegheny County. Formerly a school bus driver and health care 
worker, Ms. Costigan is now retired. She has two daughters, 
three grandchildren, and two great-grandchildren. She will 
share her experience today with a scammer who impersonated her 
bank and the steps she took to respond to the scam. Aurelia, we 
are grateful you are with us.
    Now I will turn to Ranking Member Scott to introduce our 
fourth and final witness.
    Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my pleasure 
to introduce a fellow South Carolinian, Mrs. Polly Fehler. It 
is my pleasure to talk about Mrs. Fehler. She has resided in 
Seneca, South Carolina, for the last 32 years. She is a retired 
nurse, holding a master's in nursing, and a veteran of the Air 
Force. Thank you for your service, ma'am. She is also a member 
of St. Mark's United Methodist Church, serving her community as 
a vessel of God's love. Her most important job, however, is 
being a loving grandmother to five grandkids ranging from the 
ages of five to twenty-six years old. I hear being a 
grandmother is better than being a mother. I hear that rumor 
all the time. Your son Tim says, ``I am not sure that is 
completely true.''
    Anyways, in April 2021, scammers conned their way into Mrs. 
Fehler's computer and online banking, which resulted in the 
loss of $20,000. This crime hit Mrs. Fehler particularly hard, 
both financially and emotionally. Mrs. Fehler's testimony today 
is about her personal experience being a survivor of these 
scams.
    I want to thank you, ma'am, for being willing to share your 
story. It does take courage to step forward into the light and 
to help other folks avoid situations like the one you found 
yourself in, and I am so proud that you are willing to help 
other folks through your story.
    Thank you so much for your willingness to be here today and 
God bless you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott. Well said in 
introducing one of our witnesses.
    We will begin our testimony now with Dr. DeLiema.
    You may begin.

          STATEMENT OF MARTI DELIEMA, PH.D., ASSISTANT

               PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA

           SCHOOL OF SOCIAL WORK, ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA

    Dr. DeLiema. Good morning. Thank you, Chairman Casey, 
Ranking Member Scott, and members of the Committee. My name is 
Dr. Marti DeLiema, and I am an assistant professor at the 
University of Minnesota School of Social Work. I conduct 
research on consumer fraud and strategies to safeguard 
Americans' financial security.
    You invited me today to describe current trends in consumer 
scams affecting older adults. We can use consumer complaint 
data compiled by the Federal Trade Commission to explore these 
trends.
    Government imposter scams have been in the top five most 
reported categories of fraud affecting older adults for 
multiple years in a row, but the Government agency being 
impersonated has changed over time: the IRS, SSA, FBI, CMS, and 
so on. The challenge is to predict which agency's clothes the 
perpetrators are going to try on next, and to create consumer 
education campaigns that are robust to these changes.
    Throughout the pandemic, business impersonation scams grew 
exponentially, particularly retail company imposters, but it is 
romance scams that lead the pack in terms of personal financial 
costs. In a study I conducted with the FTC, we found that the 
median reported losses for consumers in their 70's and 80's 
were $10,000, quadruple the losses reported by young adults.
    We can also use reporting data to look at methods of money 
transfer. Today bank transfer and cryptocurrency are the clear 
frontrunners in terms of losses. Together, these account for 
$1.5 billion in stolen funds, more than double the losses from 
all other payment methods combined. While this is a great deal 
of money, research indicates that fewer than three percent of 
consumers report to law enforcement, so the true losses are 
many magnitudes greater.
    Among older adults, as you said, gift cards are still the 
most common method of money transfer. Gift cards are favored by 
perpetrators because they are easily available to consumers, 
they are anonymous, they are instantly redeemable, and have 
very few controls.
    Retail sales clerks are often the only individuals in 
position to intervene. In my research supported by AARP, my 
graduate students and I interviewed retail store managers from 
around the U.S. We surveyed cashiers, and we visited local 
stores to document what is being done. We found that most major 
retailers have some type of signage warning customers about 
gift card scams, but the messages were typically small, they 
were placed out of eye level or completely lost in the sea of 
gift cards competing for shoppers' attention.
    Less than half the our cashiers we surveyed reported that 
there were any limits on purchase amounts, and the store 
managers said that they have not received any formal training 
from their employers on what to say to intervene. Ultimately, 
they felt that they are not authorized to deny gift card 
purchases if the customer insists, even if they are certain it 
is a scam. As the saying goes in retail: ``Customer is king.''
    In light of these findings, I believe that more education 
for front-line retail staff is warranted, but more importantly, 
we need to demand action from the gift card payments industry, 
including the payment processors and the card issuers. These 
are the entities that can see when the money is being loaded 
onto a card by customers in stores and then immediately 
redeemed by perpetrators in a remote location. Additional 
controls might include temporary holds on suspicious attempts 
to redeem high-value cards, and that would give customers more 
time to identify and report fraud. Lower transaction limits 
could also reduce the loss amount and just make gift cards less 
attractive to fraud criminals.
    Consumer education is also critical. As we say, forewarned 
is forearmed. However, we cannot ask individuals to shoulder 
the burden of consumer protection alone.
    In conjunction with education, we need the private sector 
to step up. Legislation, such as the TRACED Act, is a fantastic 
example of how phone companies, with help from Congress, can 
limit unwanted and fraudulent robocalls. We need similar 
solutions applied to other methods of contact, from bogus text 
messages to fake social media profiles.
    We also need to expand the Senior Safe Act to encourage all 
types of financial institutions to act quickly by placing 
temporary holds on suspicious transactions and reporting elder 
fraud to the authorities.
    Last, based on what we are seeing in the most recent 
reporting data, cryptocurrency is playing an outsized role in 
the fraud landscape. The fraudsters' playbook has evolved, and 
they are moving into new, complex, and underregulated 
environments. Steps need to be taken now to curtail the rise of 
crypto-facilitated fraud.
    In summary, you are so fortunate to sit in this rare area 
of policymaking where consumers, both sides of the aisle, and 
the private sector all want the same thing: to stop criminals 
from exploiting Americans. Let us advocate for greater 
investment from the private sector and for companies to be 
proactive when they suspect fraud instead of reactive when the 
money is already gone.
    Through these and other actions, we can show older 
consumers that the Federal Government is committed to keeping 
their money safe, holding the perpetrators accountable, and 
restoring trust in the marketplace.
    Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Dr. DeLiema, for your 
testimony.
    We will move next to our second witness, Mrs. Klingler.

         STATEMENT OF NANCY PHAM-KLINGLER, SENIOR ADULT

             PROTECTIVE SERVICE SPECIALIST, COUNTY

             OF SAN DIEGO HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

                 AGENCY, SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA

    Ms. Pham-Klingler. Good morning, Chairman Casey, Ranking 
Member Scott, and members of the Committee.
    My name is Nancy Pham-Klingler, and I am the senior adult 
protective service investigator assigned to the financial unit 
in San Diego County, California. Thank you for allowing me to 
join you today to discuss a topic I am passionate about and 
dedicated to: the fight against fraud and scams.
    Over the past year, I have been privileged to be the 
primary APS investigator attached to the San Diego County Elder 
Justice Task Force--a partnership of the San Diego County 
District Attorney's Office, the FBI, local law enforcement in 
San Diego County, and Adult Protective Services seeking to 
impact scams against older adults.
    San Diego County is home to over 3.3 million people. Of 
that, approximately 680,000 are individuals over the age of 60. 
From 2000 to 2030, it is projected that adults 60 and older 
will increase by 130 percent while the general population will 
increase just 38 percent. That means one in four San Diegans 
will be over 60 years of age.
    These numbers are real. Adult Protective Services has 
witnessed firsthand the increase in APS referrals over the 
years, particularly cases with a nexus to scams and financial 
abuse. From June 2021 to July 2022, over 1,200 APS scam-related 
cases were referred to our office with an estimated loss of 
over $34 million. It is clear we have an issue--an issue that 
our most vulnerable population, who have spent years and years 
of hard work saving for their golden years, only to be deceived 
and have their life savings stolen under false pretenses by 
vicious perpetrators.
    APS frequently is the first to respond to these victims. We 
help them start the processes to potentially recover their 
losses, bring some sense of security back, and protect them 
from future exploitation. During our investigation, we must 
build a rapport, gain their trust, and assess for safety all 
while ensuring that we gather all the necessary evidence to 
bring our cases to the next level.
    What is the next level, you may ask. As we know, without 
evidence there is no crime. Our APS team members, along with 
our local law enforcement agencies in San Diego have been 
trained to gather key details such as: How did the scammers 
contact you? What company did they represent? What account 
numbers and financial institution were mentioned during your 
conversation?
    These cases are complex. Some of the top scams we see use 
mobile cash apps, peer-to-peer money transfer, social media 
engineering, and cryptocurrency. Can we confiscate a Bitcoin 
machine that an elderly person just walked up to and deposited 
$25,000 in cash with a QR code that they just received via text 
message?
    As difficult as these cases are, recovery of these funds is 
potentially possible. One example is as follows:
    On July 13, 2021, Adult Protective Services was contacted 
by the San Diego Sheriff's Department with concerns about a 
possible local Publishing Clearing House scam victim. There was 
a $75,000 cash package that was located in Florida that came 
from a San Diego address. Upon investigating this residence, we 
located a mailer with our elder's name on it. With the support 
and assistance of our Elder Justice Task Force, we reached out 
to the appropriate parties to gather the necessary information 
to create an APS referral. This referral allowed us to have 
open communication with the identified victim, speak to their 
financial institution, locate natural support, and collaborate 
with local law enforcement. Through this collaborative work, we 
conducted a records request.
    One of the payments was to the San Diego address where the 
package was sent from in Florida. This victim identified--
stated that she had sent over $250,000 to various individuals 
through the direction of employees from the Publisher Clearing 
House scam. This is not an uncommon method of payment where 
scammers are using our most vulnerable citizens to launder 
money for them and ultimately requesting for cash payment to be 
mailed out to random addresses. We worked with the financial 
institution and reviewed over 271 pages of bank records to 
confirm that our victim, in fact, sent the money to another 
senior and that check was cashed by the receiving senior's 
bank. Collaborative work works.
    I am here today to speak to you because this is a national 
problem crossing State and international borders. In the past 
year, according to IC3.gov, more than 92,000 victims over the 
age of 60 reported losses of $1.7 billion, and that is just 
reported losses. This represents an increase of 74 percent 
since 2020. This is a crisis, and without swift action the 
trend will continue.
    Reporting on elder financial abuse is mandated. We have 
infrastructure in place to report scams--IC3, FTC, FBI, APS, 
and local law enforcement--but what we need is continuous 
support and additional resources so agencies involved can help 
solve the greater issue. We need legislation and targeted 
education that makes it harder for these scammers to attack our 
precious population in our society and put faith back in our 
public system, as well as a means to obtain bank records 
quickly for suspicious transactions.
    On behalf of San Diego County, I thank you for bringing 
this critical issue to the forefront and for your continued 
work to protect the vulnerable seniors in our community. I 
welcome any questions the Committee may have. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Ms. Pham-Klingler.
    We will turn next to Ms. Costigan.

                STATEMENT OF AURELIA COSTIGAN, 
            SCAM SURVIVOR, PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA

    Ms. Costigan. Hello. My name is Aurelia Costigan. I was 
born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I have been married twice; 
both of my husbands have passed. I have been widowed since 2008 
when my second husband passed. I used to be a school bus 
driver, and then I also worked in health care for several 
years. I am now retired on Social Security Disability and 
Surviving Widow's Benefits. I live in the North Hills with my 
youngest daughter. I have two daughters, three grandchildren, 
and two great-grandchildren.
    Last September, I got a phone call from the number that is 
listed on the back of my debit card. This man said he was from 
Dollar Bank and told me that there were two suspicious activity 
charges on my account from Tennessee. He said one was from a 
grocery store and another one from a movie theater. He asked if 
I was in Tennessee recently and had I made any charges there, 
and I said, ``No, I live in Pittsburgh. I have never been to 
Tennessee.''
    He asked if I had any relatives or friends that were there 
that could have used my card, and I said no, so he proceeded to 
say that to prevent having to cancel my card and issue a new 
one, he could help me out with that by adding a Zelle account 
to protect my bank account. At that time, of course, I had no 
idea what Zelle was, so I just assumed that what he was saying 
would be helpful, so I said, ``Okay, that is good.''
    Then he said that had to have some type of proof that he 
was actually speaking with Aurelia Costigan and he needed some 
form of identification to prove that he was actually speaking 
with me, and he asked if I had online banking, but I do not use 
that. I go to the bank myself personally when I do any kind of 
banking, so he said, well, the only other option to use to 
prove who I was - was my Social Security, so not thinking 
anything, you know, unusual, I thought that sounded feasible. I 
assumed he was from my bank, and I gave my Social Security 
number, and I thanked him, and we hung up.
    Well, less than five to ten minutes later, my phone starts 
blowing up. It was notifying me of charge after charge after 
charge, one after the other. Twenty-two, to be exact. I 
panicked. I went to my bank, and I told them about the phone 
call, and they said, ``We have no charges from Tennessee on 
your account.'' That is when I realized I was scammed.
    They said that they would look into it. The manager of my 
bank said, ``I will not quit until I find that money.'' I was 
told to notify the police and file a complaint. I did, and also 
the State attorney's office, which I did. The police officer 
was very helpful and understanding. He provided me with 
resources and pamphlets, and he even held my hand and said that 
he felt for me and other people that are taken advantage of 
like this.
    I was an absolute a wreck. I could not sleep. I had trouble 
eating. I was devastated. The money I lost because of this scam 
was $1,800, and that is a lot of money, and it takes me a long 
time to earn money like that for being on Social Security to be 
able to save any kind of money. Sometimes you need for car 
breakdowns or medical expenses that come up.
    When these kinds of things happen, you need to have some 
kind of back-up, and I thought I would never get that money 
back, but, thankfully, maybe a month or so later, my bank was 
able to get my money back--all the $1,800. The State attorney's 
office told me that I was very fortunate that my bank worked so 
hard with Zelle to get my money back. I felt like I could 
finally calm down now after a lot of praying.
    I know that not everyone has had this experience. These 
scammers get away with this every single day, and elderly 
people like myself, we are always trusting people. Don't give 
absolutely any information to anybody about yourself on the 
telephone. I now tell my friends and my family my story as a 
warning. I tell them to be careful, and I hope that we can do 
something so that this does not happen to anybody else.
    The Chairman. Ms. Costigan, thanks very much for sharing 
your story. We are grateful for it.
    We will wrap up with our fourth and final witness,
    Mrs. Fehler.

      STATEMENT OF POLLY FEHLER, COMPUTER SCAM SURVIVOR, 
       RETIRED AIR FORCE OFFICER, SENECA, SOUTH CAROLINA

    Ms. Fehler. Thank you, Ranking Member Tim Scott and 
Chairman Casey.
    My name is Polly Fehler. I am 76 years old. I am the mother 
of two sons, the grandmother of five grandchildren, a retired 
registered nurse and a retired nursing educator. I also ran a 
nursing department that taught RNs for 5-1/2 years, so I have a 
lot of compassion for people that have to do budgets and handle 
money, and I felt that I was very fraught with some knowledge 
there.
    My husband of 48 years died nine years ago. I have lived in 
the same house, as Senator Scott said, for 32 years, and I am 
here today to tell you about the scam which upended my world 
last year.
    I have always paid my bills on time and managed to pay our 
house off early. I have worked hard to maintain a thrifty 
lifestyle. I taught our sons the same. I pride myself on not 
spending foolishly and on having sharp financial instincts, but 
when I realized what had happened to me, that somebody actually 
took such advantage of me, the bottom fell out of my life.
    I had been having email trouble with my old computer, but 
it was in the middle of the pandemic, so I could not get it 
fixed. No one would come to the house. I could not take it to 
the local Staples. In January 2021, things started to loosen up 
a little bit, and I went and bought a new computer. Things were 
going back to normal.
    On April 13th, I was using my new laptop on public WiFi, 
and suddenly a pop-up appeared on the home screen. It was a 
large orange blinking triangle, and, of course, it is going to 
take your attention, and it said I have computer problems; my 
computer had been compromised.
    I called the listed number because I was afraid I was in 
for the same kind of problem I had had before, which had cut me 
off from my community and my church. A reassuring voice 
alleging to be a representative of Microsoft answered. He told 
me if I bought their protective software at $299, which 
included computer monitoring for two years, that he would gee 
that he would call me every so often, and he did. As far as I 
could tell, this was going to be good customer service.
    The third call later, in June, on June 14th, this man who 
was calling said he wanted to check on the program and see how 
it was working. If it was not working, he wanted to refund my 
$299, plus give me $100 for the inconvenience of bothering him, 
so to run the software, he wanted me to go to my computer and 
turn it on. I did. I had to give him full access. During this 
test message, other messages flooded the screen and kept 
rolling by, and there it was again: an alert claiming my 
computer was compromised. I told him to send the refund by way 
of check to my home address, and he said he could not. The 
service had been paid for electronically. They were going to 
return my money electronically.
    He moved to a different browser window, and the screen 
broke out into chaotic movement with numbers coming, rolling 
around and around and around. Then all of a sudden everything 
stopped, and the number on the screen with other numbers, but 
the number highlighted was $20,000. The scammer feigned 
outrage, saying I intentionally stopped the computer when my 
checking account reflected a $20,000 deposit. I did not know 
what he had been doing on there, but I could not see any 
alleged moneys he was talking about. We were not in my bank 
account; we were not in my checking account. I never had 
touched the computer or the mouse while he was running his 
testing.
    Then he showed me, he opened the window and showed me my 
checking account. Instead of $6,000, it had $26,000 in it. I 
screamed: ``How did this happen? How did you get in?'' I was 
stunned. I had a balance that was way above what I should have 
had, and it was not mine. Being so precise about moneys, I had 
no idea where the money came from. I wanted nothing to do with 
it. The scammer was furious, demanding that I pay them back 
immediately. Microsoft would sue me, would send me to 
collections, would get the police after me, would ruin my 
credit, and I had worked hard to try and establish a good 
credit rating. I was terrified. I felt the only way I could get 
my money back was to do exactly what he said.
    He told me to wire the $20,000 to a Microsoft subsidiary in 
Vietnam. The instructions were to tell USAA, my bank, that I 
knew this person and owed them $20,000. He told me not to veer 
off those instructions or I would not be able to pay them back.
    After I completed the wire transfer, our call ended. 
Immediately I contacted USAA to report what had happened. A 
representative told me she thought I had been scammed, but I 
would not get a call back until the next day. This happened 
now. Why couldn't they call me now? It was after office hours.
    The next day, a fraud investigator called and asked what I 
had done on my banking--in my bank the next day, and I told 
him, and I did not know anything about what actually happened. 
They could see that I had taken out $20,000 on my home equity 
line of credit. I had not opened that line of credit for 17 
years. It had been inactive, dormant. I never knew the money 
was from USAA. I thought it was from Microsoft. I did not know 
it was a loan for me and that I was throwing it away.
    Now, I owed USAA $20,000 plus interest. I live too on a 
fixed income. I could not make the payments. I could not--the 
interest even was starting to pile up. At first they told me 
not to pay any attention to it because it was a fraud 
investigation, so I did not start to pay it when it was $3 and 
something the first few days. I did not pay it back, and then 
it got bigger and bigger, and I could not handle everything.
    Finally, after the overdue notices I was getting for the 
loan, a scary letter came from USAA telling me that I was 
eligible for bankruptcy. I owned my house. I owned my car. I 
should not be eligible for bankruptcy.
    In the end, this year, not having--USAA put a lien on my 
house, and not having the moneys to pay it, I had to sell off 
my Individual Retirement Account in order to pay USAA because 
it was driving me mentally insane. The situation snowballed. I 
could not find legal advice. I called the FTA. They took a 
statement. They never called me back. They were going to. I 
called the police. I called numerous law firms. I called the 
South Carolina Attorney's Office. I called many, many places. I 
did not know about the number that you said now has been in 
effect ten years and I could call for help here. I have it 
written down.
    I did not find anyone--I was afraid to tell everyone. I did 
not find anyone to help me until a local reporter, TV reporter, 
Diane Lee, came on board and listened to my story and broadcast 
it. I was afraid of it. I did not want other people to know. I 
had not even told my son for days, and my second son in Texas 
for months, because I was afraid of their reaction because I 
was so stupid. I was blaming myself.
    After suffering through the scam, I not only was alone and 
depressed; I even lost my spirit to live. I sat alone, I hated 
myself. Some days I could not get out of bed. I thought this is 
so ridiculous. I went to the VA for medication. I am a vet. I 
went to the VA for medication. I opted out of all my community 
and church activities, which before had been a vital part of my 
life. I had no leadership roles. I did not even attend church 
after awhile. I could not function as the person I had been. I 
was not the person I had been.
    I am here today because I am a survivor. God is giving me 
the strength to reclaim my life, and I want others to know 
there is hope out there. I want others to know that this 
unmatched misery does not have to happen. Saving others from 
falling into the pit that I was in that comes with losing your 
self-worth and retirement savings in a click needs to be done, 
and we need to do everything we can. I have some ideas, but we 
will talk about those later.
    Thank you for listening, and I look forward to your 
questions.
    The Chairman. Well, Mrs. Fehler, thank you so much. I think 
we are all indebted to you for your testimony and your 
willingness to share with us. I know it cannot be easy to 
relive some of that horror, and we are grateful you are willing 
to do it to help others.
    We are going to go to questioning in a different order. I 
am going to turn first to my colleague Senator Blumenthal, and 
then we will pick up from there.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman, and 
thank you for having this hearing.
    As the witnesses have observed, and I think the Chairman as 
well, fraud affects elders more frequently and more 
devastatingly than anyone else, and, Ms. Fehler and Ms. 
Costigan, thank you for telling your stories with such bravery 
and precision, because I think they give a voice and face to 
this problem. It is truly moving, and you have shown not only 
the financial impact but also the emotional and psychological 
impact.
    In Connecticut, the Department of Aging and Disability 
Services is warning seniors against genetic testing fraud aimed 
at Medicare beneficiaries where scammers pose as genetic 
testing company representatives. They offer free genetic tests 
and then steal their medical identity in order to falsely bill 
Medicare, thereby draining the system of needed funds. The 
supposed free genetic tests obviously are a ruse. This example 
is only one of many that consumers have reported to us 
affecting elders, and it is why I was proud to introduce the 
Elder Abuse Protect Act of 2021. This legislation builds on the 
Elder Abuse Prevention and Prosecution Act, a bill that I 
sponsored and helped to pass into law. It provides statutory 
authority for the Elder Justice Initiative, which coordinated 
activities at the Department of Justice to combat elder abuse, 
neglect, and financial fraud.
    The Chairman is to be commended for his leadership in this 
area, as is the Ranking Member, and it brings us here today.
    Dr. DeLiema, I was especially interested, as a former 
Attorney General and also a Federal prosecutor, in your data 
and statistics on which frauds affect seniors most commonly, 
and, of course, they evolve, as you observed, for example, the 
use of Government agencies as a means to entice or deceive 
seniors, different Government agencies over different times, 
but I was particularly interested in your information about 
romance schemes and scams. I want to demonstrate my perhaps 
naivete and ignorance by saying I really had no idea that the 
magnitude of loss was greatest for those 70 to 79 and 80 and 
older, and I wonder if you could expand a little bit on what 
you have told us in your testimony about the reasons why that 
amount is at $10,000; whereas, for young people my children's 
age, between, let us say, 20 and 29 or 30 and 39, the amounts 
are much less. I do not know whether the frequency is higher, 
but the amounts are less. If you could explain?
    Dr. DeLiema. Absolutely. Thank you, Senator, so romance 
scams are unique in that they tend to go on for many weeks, 
sometimes many months, so when a person finally does report, 
the magnitude of total losses is reflected in the report, so, 
typically, perpetrators do not just start right off the bat 
asking for $10,000 from their romance scam victims. They might 
ask for smaller amounts, and then once that trust is built, 
then they will start asking for greater and greater sums of 
money, so that is why I think we see those amounts so high.
    It is possible that younger adults might have more people 
in their lives to intervene and say, ``Hey, this seems 
suspicious''; whereas, for older adults with greater isolation, 
it can go on for longer, but the fact that they are not losing, 
you know, the $10,000 all in one fell swoop indicates to me 
that there are so many opportunities for intervention along the 
way, like let us see if we can catch those smaller amounts of 
money leaving first to really prevent the deep pockets from 
being lost.
    Thank you.
    Senator Blumenthal. Presumably also minimize the emotional 
impact if it is caught earlier.
    Dr. DeLiema. Absolutely. You know, perpetrators' MO is to 
tell the person to keep these relationships private. They will 
say things like, ``Your children will not understand.'' You 
know, ``This is between us.'' Again, you know, one of our 
questions is why don't they reach out to their friends or 
family members, and it is because they are instructed not to.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank 
you all for your testimony. This is very, very helpful and 
valuable to us. Thank you.
    Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal.
    We are also joined by Senator Gillibrand and Senator Braun. 
We will now next turn to Senator Collins.
    Senator Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am so glad that 
you and the Ranking Member are continuing the Committee's focus 
on scams that are directed against our older Americans. It is 
extraordinary how painful, not just financially but 
emotionally, these scams are.
    In that regard, I want to thank Mrs. Costigan and Mrs. 
Fehler for coming forward and sharing their very powerful 
stories that will help to educate other older Americans and 
tell them that they are not alone and that they should get help 
and, most of all, help them avoid these scams in the first 
place.
    Mrs. Fehler, I want to start with you, and, again, I found 
your testimony to be so compelling because, as you pointed out, 
you have an extensive financial background, and you are not 
easily deceived, but you fell prey to an extremely 
sophisticated, ruthless scam that went on for months, and for 
those of us--and I put myself in that category--who are not 
that savvy technically, getting a notice on your computer that 
it has been compromised would cause alarm for almost all of us.
    Over the past several years, the Aging Committee has held 
many hearings examining scams that are targeting older 
Americans, and what we have frequently heard is that if anyone 
had intervened at any point in the process, the scam would not 
have been successful. The Senior Safe Act that I introduced 
with Senators Casey and Scott, was signed into law in 2018. I 
know one of our witnesses has urged an expansion of that, which 
I think is worthwhile, but the whole idea was to train 
financial institutions' employees to be able to spot and report 
financial exploitation of older Americans.
    My question for you is, If someone from your bank had seen 
this very suspicious transaction, where you are opening up a 
line of credit that you have not used in, I think you said, 17 
years and asked you about it, would that have stopped the scam?
    Ms. Fehler. Yes, and they would have stopped it on any 
level. They could have emailed me. They could have texted me. 
They could have phoned me. If I go on a trip and I use a credit 
card and I have not let USAA know that I was traveling to a 
different State and I used it at a gas station, the first gas 
charge might go through. The second time my card would have 
been frozen. That is $20. We are talking about $20,000, and 
they did not find that I had a right to expect notification. I 
did not expect a notification because I had not used it. I 
thought it was closed. I had no use for it, but that is one 
thing they can do.
    I think it is very important that not only seeing the money 
being moved but seeing accounts being utilized that were not 
opened before is very important in the education that we give 
the bankers also, or any financial institution. I think that we 
need to understand the difference between a scam and fraud. 
They did not pay mine because they said it was a scam. I have 
the definition here that the banks use for scams versus fraud, 
and I believe it was a fraud, but the reason they gave it to 
me, they would not accept it, is that they said this is a scam, 
this was totally up to you. I sent the money. I agree with 
that. That was stupid, but I did that, but I did not contact 
me. I did not move my money. They allowed that guy to get into 
my bank account and move the money from USAA's loan department 
into that home equity loan, and I had no knowledge of it.
    Senator Collins. It seems to me that your analogy with the 
use of a credit card is a very good one. If you go out of the 
country and you have not told your credit card company, they 
are likely to decline the transaction and text you or contact 
you in some way to find out is it really you using that card, 
and it seems to me that this was so out of your normal practice 
that your bank should have realized that it was suspicious and 
contacted you, and that is what Senior Safe is all about, is to 
ensure that banks are not violating privacy laws or they also 
are not going to be held liable in some way for asking you is 
this really a transaction that you want, so thank you for 
sharing that experience.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Fehler. Can I say one other thing? I was a member of 
USAA for 41 years, and I felt, I still feel that they owed me 
something of communication.
    Senator Collins. I agree.
    Ms. Fehler. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Collins.
    I will turn next to my questions. I want to direct my first 
question to both Ms. Costigan and Mrs. Fehler. As I indicated 
earlier, and several of us have, you have shared very personal 
stories, and we are grateful for that. I wanted to note that 
part of what your testimony indicated about the impact on each 
of you individually, Ms. Costigan talked about being 
devastated, but then, thankfully, when the money was returned, 
she could calm down, but, Mrs. Fehler, so many times in your 
testimony you talked about the impact on you, that you said, 
``The bottom did not just fall out of my life. I had dropped 
straight into Hell.'' You talked about being depressed and 
alone and that you could not function and so many other 
expressions of the horror you were living through.
    I guess because of that, it cuts through for a lot of 
Americans who will hear your testimony, and it allows people to 
understand that this can happen, as Senator Collins said, to 
any of us, no matter what our background is or no matter what 
our age is.
    For both of you, your testimony highlighted the importance 
of not just helping people to spot so-called red flags, but how 
to respond, to make sure there is an adequate response when you 
do point to that red flag. This year's Fraud Book focuses on 
both, and I think that is one of the real benefits of it.
    I guess we will go in alphabetical order, Ms. Costigan and 
then Mrs. Fehler. Why is it important to focus not only on 
education to prevent scams, which is obviously very important, 
but also on resources to respond and to help when the scam 
actually occurs?
    Ms. Costigan. Well, I feel it would be a little bit of 
both, actually, what you are saying, because people of our age, 
at our Baby Boomer age, we were very trusting persons. We are 
also not tech savvy on computers, in the computer world, which 
makes it a lot harder for the elderly people, so that needs to 
be brought to attention as well to train elderly people on how 
to handle that with computer work.
    I feel for Mrs. Fehler because the $1,800 I lost, which 
thankfully my bank was able to recover, to me $1,800 was like 
having $18,000 taken from me, but for Mrs. Fehler, my heart 
goes out to you for what happened to you, and this needs to be 
made very more publicly as to this happened in this world, 
which is very sad that people are taking advantage the way they 
are.
    Ms. Fehler. Thank you.
    Chairman Casey. Mrs. Fehler?
    Ms. Fehler. I believe that we need more resources in the 
ability to not have the victim feel that they are totally at 
fault. The first thing you do is you may lash out in anger at 
the people that are doing it, but then that is cutoff. You do 
not have any more to do with it. Then they have put the blame 
on you, and you carry that blame, and you are afraid to tell 
people, you are afraid to tell your family, because if you are 
to blame, how can you take any more pressure? How can you do 
any more than what you are doing?
    The Seneca Police Department came over and talked to me and 
told me they could not do anything. They told me that it would 
not do any good to go to the county sheriff's department, it 
would not do any good to go to the State department of law, 
that I needed to get a hold of some legal people, and I went 
through very, very, very--a lot of people, and it was all I 
could do. I might be able to make two phone calls a day, and 
then I was totally mind-set wiped out, and I think that we need 
to be able to allow the plight of senior citizens to also reach 
the families and the friends around us, because we are so 
afraid of not being able to fill our need as a person that has 
had experience. We are so afraid of being labeled. We need 
someone that can help and push us on our way and know what some 
of those resources can be, because, frankly, I am just 
astounded that all the people I talked to, not one of them gave 
me the number for the resource line. Not one. Not the Federal 
Trade Commission, who I talked to for a long time, they never--
they said they would call me back. They never did. Not the 
South Carolina legal assistance. I talked to them once. They 
never called--they never got me back in. Nobody got us back in 
to help.
    It is important that we educate the seniors. One faulty 
thing about seniors, one problem with seniors is that some of 
us are not so alert and active and able to understand. We need 
somebody that knows where we are at mentally and physically 
that can tell us the kinds of things that we can do where we 
are. If our mental acuity is not quite as good, we need 
somebody that does not make us feel that we are no good, and 
they need to know the resources, so it is really important, 
this book is really important, the number is really important 
to get this information out, but I get turned off when nobody 
calls back and they say, ``We will get right back with you.'' 
Or get their name and number, you try and call back, and they 
are not available, they are not available, they are not 
available. I think that that is horrible. There needs to be a 
person that is going to answer, and you need to know who they 
are, and they need to hold some accountability for those 
resources if they are going to do something.
    The Chairman. No question that it is not good enough for us 
at a hearing like this to point out the problem. We have got to 
be determined to get every level of government to up their 
game, every local agency of government, county, State, Federal. 
Everyone has got to do more to respond so you do not have that 
experience of being victimized and then kind of further injured 
by a lack of response.
    I have a question, which I will wait for the second round, 
to Ms. Pham-Klingler. I will turn next to Ranking Member Scott.
    Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I am going to ask a question of Ms. Aurelia Costigan. Older 
Americans are a popular target for scammers. One reason I am a 
cosponsor of the Empowering States to Protect Seniors from Bad 
Actors Act, this bill provides $10 million in grant money to 
State regulators to help protect seniors from fraud.
    Looking back on your experience, what are some of the red 
flags and your tips you would like to share with other seniors 
that may help them identify possible scammers?
    Ms. Costigan. When people call you on the phone and they 
ask you questions, do not answer them. If you have any 
confusion about it, go to your bank and talk to them in person. 
Do not give any information out on the telephone such as Social 
Security numbers, online banking numbers, anything of any kind, 
because I have learned my lesson.
    Senator Scott. It is incredible that we find ourselves in a 
place where you have to really question everyone that calls our 
seniors. It is just an unnerving position for seniors to find 
themselves in, that literally sincere people who are looking to 
be helpful and just to do the right thing have to rewire the 
way they see the world because of the scammers and fraudsters. 
It is a different kind of evil for those folks who take 
advantage of our seniors in vulnerable positions.
    Mrs. Fehler, I was walking back from my Banking hearing 
where I was asking questions and ran into Mrs. Collins, who 
said that you were simply spectacular. She really found your 
testimony and your responses to her questions to be 
illuminating and helpful, and the complexity of the scam as she 
heard you articulate it was one that was just unbelievable from 
her perspective, so she was really impressed.
    You may have answered this in part based on my talk with 
her, but I do think that seniors benefit from hearing your 
tips, a similar question that I asked just now. I would love to 
hear your answers to how do we help seniors in such a 
situation. Yours was so complex. How do we find those red flags 
and warnings? What tips would you provide?
    Ms. Fehler. Well, one thing that is really important, and I 
kind of alluded to it at the end of my last statement, but I 
think that--let me give an example. USAA is a Federal bank that 
I belonged to, like I said, for 41 years. I never talked to the 
same person over the more than 50 calls I made except for one 
time. His name was Jim. I always had to go through what had 
happened. They had notes. They either had to read them or they 
had no questions or they could not get me to the person.
    When USAA sent me a letter, it was signed by a man that I 
could file for bankruptcy. I tried to get a hold of that man. 
They would not put me through to him or his office. I said, 
``Does he exist?'' They said, ``Well, we think so.'' I never 
was able--because USAA comes out of Texas.
    Senator Scott. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Fehler. I never was able to talk to anybody, to know 
anybody, so I was really--when I got back and was able to 
function, I was really able and happy to be able to go to a 
small bank--it is Wells Fargo, it is a huge bank, but a small 
banking bank, and they took me right in. They talked to me. 
They introduced me to the people that would be handling my 
account, and when I had the problem where I was so depressed 
and I did not know what to do with this loan I could not pay 
off, they got me into the people that handle your funds, my 
retirement funds, and the two of them together talked to me and 
determined that my mental health would be much better if I 
could get this loan paid off, and what would be the best way 
for me to do that without causing the most loss, because I lost 
more money than $20,000 by canceling an IRA, and to have that 
kind of care from a financial institution was what I had been 
looking for.
    USAA, before, I touted it as a great, great place, but you 
need someone that knows you and listens to you, and they need 
to get their act together, and there are millions of USAA 
members that are not going to be met--their needs are not going 
to be met if they do not get their act together, and they did 
not listen to me at all.
    Senator Scott. Thank you very much, and with the little 
time I have left, I want to followup with a question to Dr. 
DeLiema, because it really is my next question, which is the 
mental health consequences and your research on that. Can you 
just spend maybe 30, 40 seconds giving me a synopsis?
    Dr. DeLiema. Right. I have had the privilege to read 
consumer complaints on fraud through my Special Government 
agency position with the Federal Trade Commission and also in 
interviews with victims, and I have had to take breaks when 
reading or listening to their stories about what happened. I 
have had to just step aside, do something else, go for a walk 
around campus, because it is painful. You know, people talk 
about their marriages collapsing when the partner found out, 
and they talk about depression, and they talk about trying to 
take their own lives.
    We should not just think about financial crimes as being, 
oh, these have small impacts. The impacts are as severe as 
victimization by physical and sexual assault.
    Senator Scott. Thank you very much. That is powerful. My 
goodness.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott.
    I will turn next to Ms. Pham-Klingler for a question. For 
community education, which I know you know something about, for 
that to be effective, it has got to reach all communities, of 
course, and that is why Ranking Member Scott and I made it a 
priority to ensure the Committee's fraud resources are 
available in both English and Spanish. While that is an 
important step, we know that there is more work we have got to 
do together. There are so many seniors, particularly those in 
diverse communities, who are not receiving the information that 
they need.
    The Federal Trade Commission's Scams Against Older Adults 
Advisory Group that I mentioned earlier has an important role 
to play in identifying solutions to reach every senior, every 
senior who needs tools, information, and support, so I would 
ask you, do you have any advice for the Federal Trade 
Commission and the Council itself as it begins its work to 
ensure that their work takes into consideration the following: 
language, accessibility, and other needs?
    Ms. Pham-Klingler. Senator, thank you for your question. My 
advice would be the methods that we are using to reach our 
targeted audience, the same methods that these scammers are 
using to perpetrate our victims, such as online, where they 
frequent most, social media platforms, reaching out to family 
friends, and allowing this to be a more normalized conversation 
among each other, and also to provide this in multiple 
languages in communities that are less willing to speak up 
about being a victim of a scam.
    Thank you.
    The Chairman. I know we are going to turn next to Senator 
Rosen. Senator Rosen I think it might be available virtually.
    Senator Rosen. I am here. Thank you, Senator Casey. I 
appreciate it. Of course, I am not in the room, but I think 
Senator Scott is there. I really appreciate you both for 
holding this really important hearing. These stories are 
heartbreaking, devastating, and we really need to do something 
to protect people, because they do not happen just in one 
community or another. They are happening in, of course, my home 
State of Nevada, but all across the country, and bad actors 
that continue to target and scam Nevadans, particularly our 
Nevada seniors, and, in fact, according to data from the 
Federal Trade Commission, scams cost Nevadans nearly $36 
million in 2020 alone. ID theft fraud remains the top type of 
scam targeting Nevadans, much of it done through phishing and 
phone calls, and particularly worrisome to me is that scammers 
are increasingly holding onto personal data for long periods of 
time, even up to a year or two after obtaining it, leaving 
seniors and others kind of in the dark as to when their data 
might be used. In some cases, we are witnessing scammers 
utilizing data obtained in the early days of the pandemic.
    Ms. Pham-Klingler, I am told by AARP Nevada that delayed 
use of data obtained via scams is really becoming a problem in 
our State, and so what should Nevada seniors who may have been 
a victim of a scam in the past and they say a lot of time has 
passed by, I may not have to worry, how do they protect 
themselves now considering that people are using their data now 
or might use it in the future?
    Ms. Pham-Klingler. Thank you, Senator, for your question. 
My advice and my encouragement is for them to safeguard all 
their banking information, changing bank account numbers, 
monitoring their credit, and ensuring that there is an 
alternative person who has oversight over their finances, such 
as a loved one or someone that they trust has a secondary eye 
on their banking stuff.
    Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I want to move to something else 
that really happens a lot in Nevada--I know it happens across 
the country as well--particularly after disasters, are these 
home repair scams, because according to the Nevada State 
Contractors Board, since the beginning of the pandemic, there 
has been a marked increase in complaints to the board about 
unsolicited individuals, you know, they just go door to door in 
my town and all across Nevada. They claim to be contractors. 
They offer home repairs at lower rates, but, actually, they are 
unlicensed, and they put high pressure tactics for people to 
put money up front. They leave no paper trail. They gravitate 
to some of our communities where the English language is 
limited English proficiency, and that compromises a lot of 
groups in Nevada.
    Dr. DeLiema, are you observing home repair scams across the 
country as well, particularly in the wake of natural disasters, 
other events exacerbated by climate change, with a lot of 
wildfires, of course, up and down Nevada and across the West? 
How is the FTC responding to these, and particularly for those 
with limited English proficiency?
    Dr. DeLiema. Thank you for your question, so scammers flock 
to areas where there is disruption. Where there is confusion 
and fear, that is just a playground for fraud criminals, so 
while I cannot speak from the perspective of the FTC, I can say 
that when we think about consumer education, education is best 
delivered in the moment that it is most relevant, so when there 
is a natural disaster, that is the time we need to alert those 
communities to the fact that there will be criminals. There 
will be people going door to door to try to take advantage of 
them at a time when they are hit hardest emotionally, so, you 
know, we need to inform people to not do business with someone 
who comes to you. Do your due diligence, so thank you for that 
question.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you.
    Thank you, Chairman Casey. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Rosen.
    We are coming to the end of our hearing, and I wanted to 
start by thanking our witnesses. I will have a closing 
statement; then I will turn to Ranking Member Scott.
    We cannot thank our witnesses enough for their testimony 
today, bringing either personal experience in the case of Ms. 
Costigan and Mrs. Fehler, but others bringing experience as 
advocates, as experts. The combination is very helpful for not 
only the Committee, the members of the Committee and our 
staffs, but for the American people.
    We hope that a hearing like this and the work that was done 
to put together our ``Fighting Fraud: The Top Scams in 2022,'' 
that this work will lead to people being more and more aware 
and to prevent these scams from occurring, and also to get the 
help they need when and if a scam does impact their lives.
    Your stories and those of others who have appeared before 
this Committee further demonstrate our determination to prevent 
these terrible scams in the first place and to bring justice, 
swift, significant justice to the criminals who engage in this 
conduct. No one should lose a single penny of their hard-earned 
money to a con artist, and that is why I was proud that 
Congress passed the bipartisan Stop Senior Scams Act to ensure 
we can develop the tools and resources to prevent seniors from 
becoming victims of these crimes. It is also why Ranking Member 
Scott and I have worked closely to release the revamped Fraud 
Book that I just made reference to both in English and in 
Spanish to ensure seniors have the tools and information that 
they need.
    I look forward to continuing this bipartisan work together, 
and I now turn to Ranking Member Scott for his closing 
statement.
    Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding such an 
important hearing on a topic that really is heart-wrenching. 
Thank you to each of the panelists for taking your time and 
investing your energy and your expertise on such an important 
topic.
    Mrs. Fehler, thank you so much for spending your time here 
and representing our State so well.
    Ms. Fehler. Could I add one comment, sir?
    The Chairman. Sure.
    Ms. Fehler. Thank you, Chairman Casey. I think that if an 
independent organization could hear appeals from people who 
have been denied reimbursement, when the bank themselves makes 
the decision that this is not viable, they are the ones losing 
the money. Of course, they are going to lean toward that. That 
is a biased finding. Is there any way we can make them have an 
independent organization that would overview anybody that wants 
to appeal one of their decisions? If we could look forward to 
something like that, that would be great.
    Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, and we will certainly take that 
into consideration. We learn a lot from these hearings, and we 
also get a lot of good ideas, so we are grateful that you are 
sharing that.
    Senator Scott. Absolutely.
    Ms. Fehler. Sorry to interrupt.
    Senator Scott. No, ma'am. If I am going to be interrupted, 
at least it is by a South Carolinian. Thank you very much. I 
appreciate that. Necessarily so sometimes.
    Most of my good ideas, Bob, come from people in South 
Carolina, not from my own cranial cavity, so this is good news 
that continues to show fruit.
    855-303-9470. The one thing I will say that is important, I 
thought having the Chairman mention the number twice during his 
opening comments and me mentioning the number at least once or 
twice was good enough, but after listening to the testimonies 
and after hearing how hard it is to coordinate and to have 
collaboration on the parts of our seniors who are in desperate 
straits, I do not know that you could say the number often 
enough, so I will say it one more time: 855-303-9470.
    Mr. Chairman, I will just close with this comment as 
opposed to going through my prepared remarks. Inflation is sky 
high. Nest eggs are being hammered. Our seniors cannot afford 
$1 billion--$1 billion--of lost money because of scams. It is 
unconscionable. I believe that the testimonies that we have 
heard today will help seniors keep more of their money and 
hopefully put up a firewall to the scammers and fraudsters who 
are taking too much of the resources of people who work their 
entire lives to have them.
    Thank you all for being here with us today.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott, and thanks 
for referring to the number again. I will read it one last time 
just so that we have said it approximately an equal number of 
times: 1-855-303-9470, and I want to thank the Ranking Member 
for emphasizing that.
    I did not acknowledge one of our Senators who was with us 
today as well. Senator Warnock was with us as part of this 
hearing, and I wanted to note as well, I want to thank both of 
our staffs for working on this book. This is new and improved, 
and I said it is in both English and Spanish, but just give 
people seeing the hearing some sense of what is inside, just to 
give an example, for example, the number one scam in the top 
ten is Government imposter scams, so the summary of that 
appears on page 15.
    Right after that, you have a section called ``Red Flags,'' 
which are things to look for, but maybe most important is the 
steps to prevent and respond, and I think that is very 
important for people to take a look at.
    The first step to prevent and respond is if someone calls 
and let us say it is a Government imposter scam, hang up the 
phone. Hang up the phone and do not reply to the email, so it 
goes on from there giving other advice, but it is very 
practical and it is important that we have data about how many 
of these scams occur, but it is even more important that we 
give information about how that individual should react in the 
moment, and so we are grateful that our staffs worked so hard 
on that.
    I want to thank again all of our witnesses for your 
testimony, whether it comes from your personal experience of 
having been a victim or your own work and scholarship and 
advocacy. Both are so valuable.
    I want the Senators to know on the Committee that if any 
Senator has additional questions for the witnesses or 
statements to be added to the record, the hearing record will 
be kept open for seven days, until next Thursday, September 
29th.
    Thank you all for participating. This concludes today's 
hearing.
    [Whereupon, at 11:21 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
     
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                                APPENDIX

     
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                      Prepared Witness Statements

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                        Questions for the Record

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                       Statements for the Record

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                      Dr. Marti DeLiema (slide 1)
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                      Dr. Marti DeLiema (slide 2)
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