[Senate Hearing 117-507]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-507
STOPPING SENIOR SCAMS: EMPOWERING
COMMUNITIES TO FIGHT FRAUD
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
WASHINGTON, DC
__________
SEPTEMBER 22, 2022
__________
Serial No. 117-23
Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
49-819 PDF WASHINGTON : 2023
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SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING
ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania, Chairman
KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine
ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts RICHARD BURR, North Carolina
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada MARCO RUBIO, Florida
MARK KELLY, Arizona MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia RICK SCOTT, Florida
MIKE LEE, Utah
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Stacy Sanders, Majority Staff Director
Neri Martinez, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Opening Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman...... 1
Opening Statement of Senator Tim Scott, Ranking Member........... 2
PANEL OF WITNESSES
Marti DeLiema, Ph.D., Assistant Professor, University of
Minnesota School of Social Work, St. Paul, Minnesota........... 5
Nancy Pham-Klingler, Senior Adult Protective Service Specialist,
County of San Diego Health and Human Services Agency, San
Diego, California.............................................. 6
Aurelia Costigan, Scam Survivor, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania........ 8
Polly Fehler, Computer Scam Survivor, Retired Air Force Officer,
Seneca, South Carolina......................................... 9
APPENDIX
Prepared Witness Statements
Marti DeLiema, Ph.D., Assistant Professor, University of
Minnesota School of Social Work, St. Paul, Minnesota........... 27
Nancy Pham-Klingler, Senior Adult Protective Service Specialist,
County of San Diego Health and Human Services Agency, San
Diego, California.............................................. 33
Aurelia Costigan, Scam Survivor, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania........ 35
Polly Fehler, Computer Scam Survivor, Retired Air Force Officer,
Seneca, South Carolina......................................... 38
Questions for the Record
Marti DeLiema, Ph.D., Assistant Professor, University of
Minnesota School of Social Work, St. Paul, Minnesota........... 43
Aurelia Costigan, Scam Survivor, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania........ 46
Polly Fehler, Computer Scam Survivor, Retired Air Force Officer,
Seneca, South Carolina......................................... 47
Statements for the Record
American Bankers Association Statement........................... 55
Dr. Marti DeLiema, Slides........................................ 64
STOPPING SENIOR SCAMS: EMPOWERING
COMMUNITIES TO FIGHT FRAUD
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THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 22, 2022
U.S. Senate,
Special Committee on Aging,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., via
Webex and Room 562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Robert
P. Casey, Jr., Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Casey, Gillibrand, Blumenthal, Rosen,
Warnock, Tim Scott, Collins, Braun, and Rick Scott.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR
ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., CHAIRMAN
The Chairman. The hearing will come to order.
We convene today to discuss a topic of the utmost
importance to the Aging Committee: fighting frauds and scams
targeting seniors. While these predatory schemes have existed
for decades, we know that the pandemic has only exacerbated
this issue, as fraudsters preyed on fear and uncertainty
surrounding the virus. Federal agencies, State governments, and
advocates all warn of con artists who will do among the
following: they will pose as Federal and State agencies to
steal benefits; they will falsify romantic relationships to
gain a senior's trust; and by way of a third example, peddle
fake health insurance and cures for the virus. Scammers are
also using new payment methods, making losses difficult to
trace.
The Federal Trade Commission reports that gift cards are
the main payment method used by scammers to request and steal
money from older adults. In 2021, 27 percent of adults 60 and
older who lost money paid a scammer using a gift card or a
reloadable card. Peer-to-peer payment apps, like Zelle, Venmo,
CashApp, and PayPal, are also increasingly used by scammers.
Today Aurelia Costigan from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, will
share her experience with a peer-to-peer payment scam. Ms.
Costigan's story is all too common. Scammers' requests of
payments from seniors by way of these apps have increased
exponentially, from two percent in 2017 to ten percent in 2021.
That is why I recently led a letter to the Consumer Financial
Protection Bureau urging the agency to move forward with
guidance, guidance to protect older adults from con artists
using these apps. I would like to thank the members of the
Committee who joined the letter: Senator Blumenthal, Senator
Warren, and Senator Gillibrand. Strong guidance and enforcement
are critical, as is education on preventing and responding to
these scams. I am also proud that my Stop Senior Scams Act was
signed into law in March of this year.
Thanks to Senator Moran, Senator Kelly, and Ranking Member
Scott for working alongside me and others to pass this
important legislation. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott, for
that work. This law creates a Senior Scams Advisory Council to
ensure that banks and other businesses have both the
information and the tools that they need to train employees to
identify and respond to scams. We are grateful to the Federal
Trade Commission for its work to lead this effort and pleased
that this new Council will hold its first convening one week
from today.
Finally, Ranking Member Scott and I are releasing our 2022
Fraud Book. Here is it, and I will hold up both versions in
English and in Spanish. We are releasing this; as many of you
know, we have done this on an annual basis, but this is the
2022 book, which arms older adults with the information that
they need to protect themselves from scammers. This new and
improved Fraud Book is available today in both English and in
Spanish. The Fraud Book highlights the ten most common scams
reported to the Committee's Fraud Hotline, which is staffed
Monday through Friday 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. Eastern Time. Seniors
and their loved ones can seek assistance with reporting fraud
and getting connected to resources. The Fraud Hotline's toll-
free number is 1-855-303-9470.
I will read that again. 1-855-303-9470.
I am proud of the Committee's bipartisan leadership on this
issue, but we know that we have a lot more work to do. We have
a sacred duty to protect seniors and their families against
these scammers, these criminals. I look forward to continuing
to work together on this, and I will now turn to Ranking Member
Scott for his opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR
TIM SCOTT, RANKING MEMBER
Senator Scott. Thank you, Chairman Casey. Thank you for
working in a bipartisan fashion on so many of the issues that
impact our seniors across the country. The one thing about this
Committee that I think all Americans can celebrate is the fact
that this is a bipartisan effort to protect our seniors every
step of the way, and we need more bipartisanship in Congress
without any question, but I thank you for your leadership.
I do think it is important to once again reinforce the
hotline. This is the 10th anniversary of the Aging Committee's
Fraud Hotline. The number, again, as Chairman Casey has said a
couple of times, is 855-303-9470.
It is so important for our seniors to know that there is
help out there, and one of the easiest ways for our seniors to
find that help is to call the hotline when necessary.
Seniors often live alone or are isolated. Loved ones and
vulnerable people are not there for them. I would say that when
you think about the scams, the devastating effect it has on
people with fixed incomes is undeniable, and it is really hard
to replace income when you are on a fixed income.
On average, seniors lose about $34,200 for every instance
of a scam or fraud. In 2021, according to the FTC, scammers
stole $1 billion from our seniors. A billion dollars. In 2021
alone, in South Carolina, South Carolinians lost $48.4 million
to scams and frauds. The consequences to the scams and
fraudsters are many for our seniors, including losing
purchasing power, trying to maintain good credit, affording the
cost of their homes, losing sleep. It is an absolute
catastrophic experience when one experiences a scam or fraud.
Scams also have unseen consequences, leaving seniors
depressed, embarrassed, and feeling betrayed. For example, Jo
Saxton, a Navy veteran from Darlington, South Carolina, last
year, she received a call from two scammers impersonating law
enforcement. They told her that several people in Texas had
stolen her Social Security number and opened up checking
accounts, and in order for her to avoid the ramifications of
law enforcement, she had to send them $22,000 in cash.
Remember that this all happened over a single day. The
sense of urgency and the pressure placed on these seniors to
make fast decisions that have financial consequences that are
devastating happen so quickly. Under this immense pressure, Jo
sent two packages of cash, one to Baltimore, Maryland, the
other to Little Rock, Arkansas. These people made her feel as
though she had no other choice.
The scam not only put Jo in tremendous financial loss, but
also caused her to withdraw from family and friends. Although
frauds like the ones we will discuss today are so common, each
survivor's story is unique on how it affects their lives.
As the Chairman said, we have our 2022 bipartisan Fraud
Book, both in Spanish and English, detailing common scams and
how to fight back. Identity theft was the second most reported
fraud to the Committee's Fraud Hotline. Further, this year's
Fraud Book provides critical information and tips on how to
protect yourself. According to the FTC, identify theft was the
number one scam in South Carolina in 2021, with 17,642 cases.
One in four identity theft victims report experiencing sleep
problems, increased anxiety, depression, and anger even six
months after the crime.
Scammers are not slowing down. Since 2002, we have seen a
1,600-percent increase in reported scams. A 1,600-percent
increase in reported scams. Unbelievable. In 2020, FTC reported
4.9 million scams, and in 2021, that number was 5.7 million, an
18-percent increase in the number. I am thrilled that the
Council established by this act that Chairman Casey spoke about
earlier, the Stop Seniors Scams Act, helps our seniors, and
next week, we will see the first hearing. I look forward to
hearing from our witnesses today.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott.
Before I move to the introductions of our witnesses, I want
to acknowledge the members who are here already. Senator
Collins, the former Chair of this Committee, has been part of
the effort of producing and publicizing Fraud Books in the
past. We are grateful for her leadership.
Senator Blumenthal is here from the State of Connecticut as
well as Senator Scott from Florida.
Let me move to our witnesses. Our first witness is Dr.
Marti DeLiema. Dr. DeLiema is an assistant professor at the
University of Minnesota School of Social Work. She is an
interdisciplinary gerontologist with a specialization in
financial victimization through frauds and scams. Dr. DeLiema
has collaborated with a variety of financial institutions,
aging organizations, and Federal agencies like the Federal
Trade Commission. Doctor, welcome.
Our second witness is Nancy Pham-Klingler. Nancy is a
senior adult protective services specialist for San Diego
County in California. She has dedicated her career to
advocating for older adults, safeguarding their finances, and
ensuring their safety. In 2021, she received the Chief
Investigator's Commendation Award from the San Diego District
Attorney's Bureau of Investigations for her efforts in
recovering $75,000 for a senior in her community.
Our third witness is a Pennsylvanian, Aurelia Costigan,
born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, which is in
Allegheny County. Formerly a school bus driver and health care
worker, Ms. Costigan is now retired. She has two daughters,
three grandchildren, and two great-grandchildren. She will
share her experience today with a scammer who impersonated her
bank and the steps she took to respond to the scam. Aurelia, we
are grateful you are with us.
Now I will turn to Ranking Member Scott to introduce our
fourth and final witness.
Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my pleasure
to introduce a fellow South Carolinian, Mrs. Polly Fehler. It
is my pleasure to talk about Mrs. Fehler. She has resided in
Seneca, South Carolina, for the last 32 years. She is a retired
nurse, holding a master's in nursing, and a veteran of the Air
Force. Thank you for your service, ma'am. She is also a member
of St. Mark's United Methodist Church, serving her community as
a vessel of God's love. Her most important job, however, is
being a loving grandmother to five grandkids ranging from the
ages of five to twenty-six years old. I hear being a
grandmother is better than being a mother. I hear that rumor
all the time. Your son Tim says, ``I am not sure that is
completely true.''
Anyways, in April 2021, scammers conned their way into Mrs.
Fehler's computer and online banking, which resulted in the
loss of $20,000. This crime hit Mrs. Fehler particularly hard,
both financially and emotionally. Mrs. Fehler's testimony today
is about her personal experience being a survivor of these
scams.
I want to thank you, ma'am, for being willing to share your
story. It does take courage to step forward into the light and
to help other folks avoid situations like the one you found
yourself in, and I am so proud that you are willing to help
other folks through your story.
Thank you so much for your willingness to be here today and
God bless you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott. Well said in
introducing one of our witnesses.
We will begin our testimony now with Dr. DeLiema.
You may begin.
STATEMENT OF MARTI DELIEMA, PH.D., ASSISTANT
PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA
SCHOOL OF SOCIAL WORK, ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA
Dr. DeLiema. Good morning. Thank you, Chairman Casey,
Ranking Member Scott, and members of the Committee. My name is
Dr. Marti DeLiema, and I am an assistant professor at the
University of Minnesota School of Social Work. I conduct
research on consumer fraud and strategies to safeguard
Americans' financial security.
You invited me today to describe current trends in consumer
scams affecting older adults. We can use consumer complaint
data compiled by the Federal Trade Commission to explore these
trends.
Government imposter scams have been in the top five most
reported categories of fraud affecting older adults for
multiple years in a row, but the Government agency being
impersonated has changed over time: the IRS, SSA, FBI, CMS, and
so on. The challenge is to predict which agency's clothes the
perpetrators are going to try on next, and to create consumer
education campaigns that are robust to these changes.
Throughout the pandemic, business impersonation scams grew
exponentially, particularly retail company imposters, but it is
romance scams that lead the pack in terms of personal financial
costs. In a study I conducted with the FTC, we found that the
median reported losses for consumers in their 70's and 80's
were $10,000, quadruple the losses reported by young adults.
We can also use reporting data to look at methods of money
transfer. Today bank transfer and cryptocurrency are the clear
frontrunners in terms of losses. Together, these account for
$1.5 billion in stolen funds, more than double the losses from
all other payment methods combined. While this is a great deal
of money, research indicates that fewer than three percent of
consumers report to law enforcement, so the true losses are
many magnitudes greater.
Among older adults, as you said, gift cards are still the
most common method of money transfer. Gift cards are favored by
perpetrators because they are easily available to consumers,
they are anonymous, they are instantly redeemable, and have
very few controls.
Retail sales clerks are often the only individuals in
position to intervene. In my research supported by AARP, my
graduate students and I interviewed retail store managers from
around the U.S. We surveyed cashiers, and we visited local
stores to document what is being done. We found that most major
retailers have some type of signage warning customers about
gift card scams, but the messages were typically small, they
were placed out of eye level or completely lost in the sea of
gift cards competing for shoppers' attention.
Less than half the our cashiers we surveyed reported that
there were any limits on purchase amounts, and the store
managers said that they have not received any formal training
from their employers on what to say to intervene. Ultimately,
they felt that they are not authorized to deny gift card
purchases if the customer insists, even if they are certain it
is a scam. As the saying goes in retail: ``Customer is king.''
In light of these findings, I believe that more education
for front-line retail staff is warranted, but more importantly,
we need to demand action from the gift card payments industry,
including the payment processors and the card issuers. These
are the entities that can see when the money is being loaded
onto a card by customers in stores and then immediately
redeemed by perpetrators in a remote location. Additional
controls might include temporary holds on suspicious attempts
to redeem high-value cards, and that would give customers more
time to identify and report fraud. Lower transaction limits
could also reduce the loss amount and just make gift cards less
attractive to fraud criminals.
Consumer education is also critical. As we say, forewarned
is forearmed. However, we cannot ask individuals to shoulder
the burden of consumer protection alone.
In conjunction with education, we need the private sector
to step up. Legislation, such as the TRACED Act, is a fantastic
example of how phone companies, with help from Congress, can
limit unwanted and fraudulent robocalls. We need similar
solutions applied to other methods of contact, from bogus text
messages to fake social media profiles.
We also need to expand the Senior Safe Act to encourage all
types of financial institutions to act quickly by placing
temporary holds on suspicious transactions and reporting elder
fraud to the authorities.
Last, based on what we are seeing in the most recent
reporting data, cryptocurrency is playing an outsized role in
the fraud landscape. The fraudsters' playbook has evolved, and
they are moving into new, complex, and underregulated
environments. Steps need to be taken now to curtail the rise of
crypto-facilitated fraud.
In summary, you are so fortunate to sit in this rare area
of policymaking where consumers, both sides of the aisle, and
the private sector all want the same thing: to stop criminals
from exploiting Americans. Let us advocate for greater
investment from the private sector and for companies to be
proactive when they suspect fraud instead of reactive when the
money is already gone.
Through these and other actions, we can show older
consumers that the Federal Government is committed to keeping
their money safe, holding the perpetrators accountable, and
restoring trust in the marketplace.
Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Dr. DeLiema, for your
testimony.
We will move next to our second witness, Mrs. Klingler.
STATEMENT OF NANCY PHAM-KLINGLER, SENIOR ADULT
PROTECTIVE SERVICE SPECIALIST, COUNTY
OF SAN DIEGO HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
AGENCY, SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA
Ms. Pham-Klingler. Good morning, Chairman Casey, Ranking
Member Scott, and members of the Committee.
My name is Nancy Pham-Klingler, and I am the senior adult
protective service investigator assigned to the financial unit
in San Diego County, California. Thank you for allowing me to
join you today to discuss a topic I am passionate about and
dedicated to: the fight against fraud and scams.
Over the past year, I have been privileged to be the
primary APS investigator attached to the San Diego County Elder
Justice Task Force--a partnership of the San Diego County
District Attorney's Office, the FBI, local law enforcement in
San Diego County, and Adult Protective Services seeking to
impact scams against older adults.
San Diego County is home to over 3.3 million people. Of
that, approximately 680,000 are individuals over the age of 60.
From 2000 to 2030, it is projected that adults 60 and older
will increase by 130 percent while the general population will
increase just 38 percent. That means one in four San Diegans
will be over 60 years of age.
These numbers are real. Adult Protective Services has
witnessed firsthand the increase in APS referrals over the
years, particularly cases with a nexus to scams and financial
abuse. From June 2021 to July 2022, over 1,200 APS scam-related
cases were referred to our office with an estimated loss of
over $34 million. It is clear we have an issue--an issue that
our most vulnerable population, who have spent years and years
of hard work saving for their golden years, only to be deceived
and have their life savings stolen under false pretenses by
vicious perpetrators.
APS frequently is the first to respond to these victims. We
help them start the processes to potentially recover their
losses, bring some sense of security back, and protect them
from future exploitation. During our investigation, we must
build a rapport, gain their trust, and assess for safety all
while ensuring that we gather all the necessary evidence to
bring our cases to the next level.
What is the next level, you may ask. As we know, without
evidence there is no crime. Our APS team members, along with
our local law enforcement agencies in San Diego have been
trained to gather key details such as: How did the scammers
contact you? What company did they represent? What account
numbers and financial institution were mentioned during your
conversation?
These cases are complex. Some of the top scams we see use
mobile cash apps, peer-to-peer money transfer, social media
engineering, and cryptocurrency. Can we confiscate a Bitcoin
machine that an elderly person just walked up to and deposited
$25,000 in cash with a QR code that they just received via text
message?
As difficult as these cases are, recovery of these funds is
potentially possible. One example is as follows:
On July 13, 2021, Adult Protective Services was contacted
by the San Diego Sheriff's Department with concerns about a
possible local Publishing Clearing House scam victim. There was
a $75,000 cash package that was located in Florida that came
from a San Diego address. Upon investigating this residence, we
located a mailer with our elder's name on it. With the support
and assistance of our Elder Justice Task Force, we reached out
to the appropriate parties to gather the necessary information
to create an APS referral. This referral allowed us to have
open communication with the identified victim, speak to their
financial institution, locate natural support, and collaborate
with local law enforcement. Through this collaborative work, we
conducted a records request.
One of the payments was to the San Diego address where the
package was sent from in Florida. This victim identified--
stated that she had sent over $250,000 to various individuals
through the direction of employees from the Publisher Clearing
House scam. This is not an uncommon method of payment where
scammers are using our most vulnerable citizens to launder
money for them and ultimately requesting for cash payment to be
mailed out to random addresses. We worked with the financial
institution and reviewed over 271 pages of bank records to
confirm that our victim, in fact, sent the money to another
senior and that check was cashed by the receiving senior's
bank. Collaborative work works.
I am here today to speak to you because this is a national
problem crossing State and international borders. In the past
year, according to IC3.gov, more than 92,000 victims over the
age of 60 reported losses of $1.7 billion, and that is just
reported losses. This represents an increase of 74 percent
since 2020. This is a crisis, and without swift action the
trend will continue.
Reporting on elder financial abuse is mandated. We have
infrastructure in place to report scams--IC3, FTC, FBI, APS,
and local law enforcement--but what we need is continuous
support and additional resources so agencies involved can help
solve the greater issue. We need legislation and targeted
education that makes it harder for these scammers to attack our
precious population in our society and put faith back in our
public system, as well as a means to obtain bank records
quickly for suspicious transactions.
On behalf of San Diego County, I thank you for bringing
this critical issue to the forefront and for your continued
work to protect the vulnerable seniors in our community. I
welcome any questions the Committee may have. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Ms. Pham-Klingler.
We will turn next to Ms. Costigan.
STATEMENT OF AURELIA COSTIGAN,
SCAM SURVIVOR, PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA
Ms. Costigan. Hello. My name is Aurelia Costigan. I was
born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I have been married twice;
both of my husbands have passed. I have been widowed since 2008
when my second husband passed. I used to be a school bus
driver, and then I also worked in health care for several
years. I am now retired on Social Security Disability and
Surviving Widow's Benefits. I live in the North Hills with my
youngest daughter. I have two daughters, three grandchildren,
and two great-grandchildren.
Last September, I got a phone call from the number that is
listed on the back of my debit card. This man said he was from
Dollar Bank and told me that there were two suspicious activity
charges on my account from Tennessee. He said one was from a
grocery store and another one from a movie theater. He asked if
I was in Tennessee recently and had I made any charges there,
and I said, ``No, I live in Pittsburgh. I have never been to
Tennessee.''
He asked if I had any relatives or friends that were there
that could have used my card, and I said no, so he proceeded to
say that to prevent having to cancel my card and issue a new
one, he could help me out with that by adding a Zelle account
to protect my bank account. At that time, of course, I had no
idea what Zelle was, so I just assumed that what he was saying
would be helpful, so I said, ``Okay, that is good.''
Then he said that had to have some type of proof that he
was actually speaking with Aurelia Costigan and he needed some
form of identification to prove that he was actually speaking
with me, and he asked if I had online banking, but I do not use
that. I go to the bank myself personally when I do any kind of
banking, so he said, well, the only other option to use to
prove who I was - was my Social Security, so not thinking
anything, you know, unusual, I thought that sounded feasible. I
assumed he was from my bank, and I gave my Social Security
number, and I thanked him, and we hung up.
Well, less than five to ten minutes later, my phone starts
blowing up. It was notifying me of charge after charge after
charge, one after the other. Twenty-two, to be exact. I
panicked. I went to my bank, and I told them about the phone
call, and they said, ``We have no charges from Tennessee on
your account.'' That is when I realized I was scammed.
They said that they would look into it. The manager of my
bank said, ``I will not quit until I find that money.'' I was
told to notify the police and file a complaint. I did, and also
the State attorney's office, which I did. The police officer
was very helpful and understanding. He provided me with
resources and pamphlets, and he even held my hand and said that
he felt for me and other people that are taken advantage of
like this.
I was an absolute a wreck. I could not sleep. I had trouble
eating. I was devastated. The money I lost because of this scam
was $1,800, and that is a lot of money, and it takes me a long
time to earn money like that for being on Social Security to be
able to save any kind of money. Sometimes you need for car
breakdowns or medical expenses that come up.
When these kinds of things happen, you need to have some
kind of back-up, and I thought I would never get that money
back, but, thankfully, maybe a month or so later, my bank was
able to get my money back--all the $1,800. The State attorney's
office told me that I was very fortunate that my bank worked so
hard with Zelle to get my money back. I felt like I could
finally calm down now after a lot of praying.
I know that not everyone has had this experience. These
scammers get away with this every single day, and elderly
people like myself, we are always trusting people. Don't give
absolutely any information to anybody about yourself on the
telephone. I now tell my friends and my family my story as a
warning. I tell them to be careful, and I hope that we can do
something so that this does not happen to anybody else.
The Chairman. Ms. Costigan, thanks very much for sharing
your story. We are grateful for it.
We will wrap up with our fourth and final witness,
Mrs. Fehler.
STATEMENT OF POLLY FEHLER, COMPUTER SCAM SURVIVOR,
RETIRED AIR FORCE OFFICER, SENECA, SOUTH CAROLINA
Ms. Fehler. Thank you, Ranking Member Tim Scott and
Chairman Casey.
My name is Polly Fehler. I am 76 years old. I am the mother
of two sons, the grandmother of five grandchildren, a retired
registered nurse and a retired nursing educator. I also ran a
nursing department that taught RNs for 5-1/2 years, so I have a
lot of compassion for people that have to do budgets and handle
money, and I felt that I was very fraught with some knowledge
there.
My husband of 48 years died nine years ago. I have lived in
the same house, as Senator Scott said, for 32 years, and I am
here today to tell you about the scam which upended my world
last year.
I have always paid my bills on time and managed to pay our
house off early. I have worked hard to maintain a thrifty
lifestyle. I taught our sons the same. I pride myself on not
spending foolishly and on having sharp financial instincts, but
when I realized what had happened to me, that somebody actually
took such advantage of me, the bottom fell out of my life.
I had been having email trouble with my old computer, but
it was in the middle of the pandemic, so I could not get it
fixed. No one would come to the house. I could not take it to
the local Staples. In January 2021, things started to loosen up
a little bit, and I went and bought a new computer. Things were
going back to normal.
On April 13th, I was using my new laptop on public WiFi,
and suddenly a pop-up appeared on the home screen. It was a
large orange blinking triangle, and, of course, it is going to
take your attention, and it said I have computer problems; my
computer had been compromised.
I called the listed number because I was afraid I was in
for the same kind of problem I had had before, which had cut me
off from my community and my church. A reassuring voice
alleging to be a representative of Microsoft answered. He told
me if I bought their protective software at $299, which
included computer monitoring for two years, that he would gee
that he would call me every so often, and he did. As far as I
could tell, this was going to be good customer service.
The third call later, in June, on June 14th, this man who
was calling said he wanted to check on the program and see how
it was working. If it was not working, he wanted to refund my
$299, plus give me $100 for the inconvenience of bothering him,
so to run the software, he wanted me to go to my computer and
turn it on. I did. I had to give him full access. During this
test message, other messages flooded the screen and kept
rolling by, and there it was again: an alert claiming my
computer was compromised. I told him to send the refund by way
of check to my home address, and he said he could not. The
service had been paid for electronically. They were going to
return my money electronically.
He moved to a different browser window, and the screen
broke out into chaotic movement with numbers coming, rolling
around and around and around. Then all of a sudden everything
stopped, and the number on the screen with other numbers, but
the number highlighted was $20,000. The scammer feigned
outrage, saying I intentionally stopped the computer when my
checking account reflected a $20,000 deposit. I did not know
what he had been doing on there, but I could not see any
alleged moneys he was talking about. We were not in my bank
account; we were not in my checking account. I never had
touched the computer or the mouse while he was running his
testing.
Then he showed me, he opened the window and showed me my
checking account. Instead of $6,000, it had $26,000 in it. I
screamed: ``How did this happen? How did you get in?'' I was
stunned. I had a balance that was way above what I should have
had, and it was not mine. Being so precise about moneys, I had
no idea where the money came from. I wanted nothing to do with
it. The scammer was furious, demanding that I pay them back
immediately. Microsoft would sue me, would send me to
collections, would get the police after me, would ruin my
credit, and I had worked hard to try and establish a good
credit rating. I was terrified. I felt the only way I could get
my money back was to do exactly what he said.
He told me to wire the $20,000 to a Microsoft subsidiary in
Vietnam. The instructions were to tell USAA, my bank, that I
knew this person and owed them $20,000. He told me not to veer
off those instructions or I would not be able to pay them back.
After I completed the wire transfer, our call ended.
Immediately I contacted USAA to report what had happened. A
representative told me she thought I had been scammed, but I
would not get a call back until the next day. This happened
now. Why couldn't they call me now? It was after office hours.
The next day, a fraud investigator called and asked what I
had done on my banking--in my bank the next day, and I told
him, and I did not know anything about what actually happened.
They could see that I had taken out $20,000 on my home equity
line of credit. I had not opened that line of credit for 17
years. It had been inactive, dormant. I never knew the money
was from USAA. I thought it was from Microsoft. I did not know
it was a loan for me and that I was throwing it away.
Now, I owed USAA $20,000 plus interest. I live too on a
fixed income. I could not make the payments. I could not--the
interest even was starting to pile up. At first they told me
not to pay any attention to it because it was a fraud
investigation, so I did not start to pay it when it was $3 and
something the first few days. I did not pay it back, and then
it got bigger and bigger, and I could not handle everything.
Finally, after the overdue notices I was getting for the
loan, a scary letter came from USAA telling me that I was
eligible for bankruptcy. I owned my house. I owned my car. I
should not be eligible for bankruptcy.
In the end, this year, not having--USAA put a lien on my
house, and not having the moneys to pay it, I had to sell off
my Individual Retirement Account in order to pay USAA because
it was driving me mentally insane. The situation snowballed. I
could not find legal advice. I called the FTA. They took a
statement. They never called me back. They were going to. I
called the police. I called numerous law firms. I called the
South Carolina Attorney's Office. I called many, many places. I
did not know about the number that you said now has been in
effect ten years and I could call for help here. I have it
written down.
I did not find anyone--I was afraid to tell everyone. I did
not find anyone to help me until a local reporter, TV reporter,
Diane Lee, came on board and listened to my story and broadcast
it. I was afraid of it. I did not want other people to know. I
had not even told my son for days, and my second son in Texas
for months, because I was afraid of their reaction because I
was so stupid. I was blaming myself.
After suffering through the scam, I not only was alone and
depressed; I even lost my spirit to live. I sat alone, I hated
myself. Some days I could not get out of bed. I thought this is
so ridiculous. I went to the VA for medication. I am a vet. I
went to the VA for medication. I opted out of all my community
and church activities, which before had been a vital part of my
life. I had no leadership roles. I did not even attend church
after awhile. I could not function as the person I had been. I
was not the person I had been.
I am here today because I am a survivor. God is giving me
the strength to reclaim my life, and I want others to know
there is hope out there. I want others to know that this
unmatched misery does not have to happen. Saving others from
falling into the pit that I was in that comes with losing your
self-worth and retirement savings in a click needs to be done,
and we need to do everything we can. I have some ideas, but we
will talk about those later.
Thank you for listening, and I look forward to your
questions.
The Chairman. Well, Mrs. Fehler, thank you so much. I think
we are all indebted to you for your testimony and your
willingness to share with us. I know it cannot be easy to
relive some of that horror, and we are grateful you are willing
to do it to help others.
We are going to go to questioning in a different order. I
am going to turn first to my colleague Senator Blumenthal, and
then we will pick up from there.
Senator Blumenthal. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman, and
thank you for having this hearing.
As the witnesses have observed, and I think the Chairman as
well, fraud affects elders more frequently and more
devastatingly than anyone else, and, Ms. Fehler and Ms.
Costigan, thank you for telling your stories with such bravery
and precision, because I think they give a voice and face to
this problem. It is truly moving, and you have shown not only
the financial impact but also the emotional and psychological
impact.
In Connecticut, the Department of Aging and Disability
Services is warning seniors against genetic testing fraud aimed
at Medicare beneficiaries where scammers pose as genetic
testing company representatives. They offer free genetic tests
and then steal their medical identity in order to falsely bill
Medicare, thereby draining the system of needed funds. The
supposed free genetic tests obviously are a ruse. This example
is only one of many that consumers have reported to us
affecting elders, and it is why I was proud to introduce the
Elder Abuse Protect Act of 2021. This legislation builds on the
Elder Abuse Prevention and Prosecution Act, a bill that I
sponsored and helped to pass into law. It provides statutory
authority for the Elder Justice Initiative, which coordinated
activities at the Department of Justice to combat elder abuse,
neglect, and financial fraud.
The Chairman is to be commended for his leadership in this
area, as is the Ranking Member, and it brings us here today.
Dr. DeLiema, I was especially interested, as a former
Attorney General and also a Federal prosecutor, in your data
and statistics on which frauds affect seniors most commonly,
and, of course, they evolve, as you observed, for example, the
use of Government agencies as a means to entice or deceive
seniors, different Government agencies over different times,
but I was particularly interested in your information about
romance schemes and scams. I want to demonstrate my perhaps
naivete and ignorance by saying I really had no idea that the
magnitude of loss was greatest for those 70 to 79 and 80 and
older, and I wonder if you could expand a little bit on what
you have told us in your testimony about the reasons why that
amount is at $10,000; whereas, for young people my children's
age, between, let us say, 20 and 29 or 30 and 39, the amounts
are much less. I do not know whether the frequency is higher,
but the amounts are less. If you could explain?
Dr. DeLiema. Absolutely. Thank you, Senator, so romance
scams are unique in that they tend to go on for many weeks,
sometimes many months, so when a person finally does report,
the magnitude of total losses is reflected in the report, so,
typically, perpetrators do not just start right off the bat
asking for $10,000 from their romance scam victims. They might
ask for smaller amounts, and then once that trust is built,
then they will start asking for greater and greater sums of
money, so that is why I think we see those amounts so high.
It is possible that younger adults might have more people
in their lives to intervene and say, ``Hey, this seems
suspicious''; whereas, for older adults with greater isolation,
it can go on for longer, but the fact that they are not losing,
you know, the $10,000 all in one fell swoop indicates to me
that there are so many opportunities for intervention along the
way, like let us see if we can catch those smaller amounts of
money leaving first to really prevent the deep pockets from
being lost.
Thank you.
Senator Blumenthal. Presumably also minimize the emotional
impact if it is caught earlier.
Dr. DeLiema. Absolutely. You know, perpetrators' MO is to
tell the person to keep these relationships private. They will
say things like, ``Your children will not understand.'' You
know, ``This is between us.'' Again, you know, one of our
questions is why don't they reach out to their friends or
family members, and it is because they are instructed not to.
Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank
you all for your testimony. This is very, very helpful and
valuable to us. Thank you.
Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal.
We are also joined by Senator Gillibrand and Senator Braun.
We will now next turn to Senator Collins.
Senator Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am so glad that
you and the Ranking Member are continuing the Committee's focus
on scams that are directed against our older Americans. It is
extraordinary how painful, not just financially but
emotionally, these scams are.
In that regard, I want to thank Mrs. Costigan and Mrs.
Fehler for coming forward and sharing their very powerful
stories that will help to educate other older Americans and
tell them that they are not alone and that they should get help
and, most of all, help them avoid these scams in the first
place.
Mrs. Fehler, I want to start with you, and, again, I found
your testimony to be so compelling because, as you pointed out,
you have an extensive financial background, and you are not
easily deceived, but you fell prey to an extremely
sophisticated, ruthless scam that went on for months, and for
those of us--and I put myself in that category--who are not
that savvy technically, getting a notice on your computer that
it has been compromised would cause alarm for almost all of us.
Over the past several years, the Aging Committee has held
many hearings examining scams that are targeting older
Americans, and what we have frequently heard is that if anyone
had intervened at any point in the process, the scam would not
have been successful. The Senior Safe Act that I introduced
with Senators Casey and Scott, was signed into law in 2018. I
know one of our witnesses has urged an expansion of that, which
I think is worthwhile, but the whole idea was to train
financial institutions' employees to be able to spot and report
financial exploitation of older Americans.
My question for you is, If someone from your bank had seen
this very suspicious transaction, where you are opening up a
line of credit that you have not used in, I think you said, 17
years and asked you about it, would that have stopped the scam?
Ms. Fehler. Yes, and they would have stopped it on any
level. They could have emailed me. They could have texted me.
They could have phoned me. If I go on a trip and I use a credit
card and I have not let USAA know that I was traveling to a
different State and I used it at a gas station, the first gas
charge might go through. The second time my card would have
been frozen. That is $20. We are talking about $20,000, and
they did not find that I had a right to expect notification. I
did not expect a notification because I had not used it. I
thought it was closed. I had no use for it, but that is one
thing they can do.
I think it is very important that not only seeing the money
being moved but seeing accounts being utilized that were not
opened before is very important in the education that we give
the bankers also, or any financial institution. I think that we
need to understand the difference between a scam and fraud.
They did not pay mine because they said it was a scam. I have
the definition here that the banks use for scams versus fraud,
and I believe it was a fraud, but the reason they gave it to
me, they would not accept it, is that they said this is a scam,
this was totally up to you. I sent the money. I agree with
that. That was stupid, but I did that, but I did not contact
me. I did not move my money. They allowed that guy to get into
my bank account and move the money from USAA's loan department
into that home equity loan, and I had no knowledge of it.
Senator Collins. It seems to me that your analogy with the
use of a credit card is a very good one. If you go out of the
country and you have not told your credit card company, they
are likely to decline the transaction and text you or contact
you in some way to find out is it really you using that card,
and it seems to me that this was so out of your normal practice
that your bank should have realized that it was suspicious and
contacted you, and that is what Senior Safe is all about, is to
ensure that banks are not violating privacy laws or they also
are not going to be held liable in some way for asking you is
this really a transaction that you want, so thank you for
sharing that experience.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Fehler. Can I say one other thing? I was a member of
USAA for 41 years, and I felt, I still feel that they owed me
something of communication.
Senator Collins. I agree.
Ms. Fehler. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Collins.
I will turn next to my questions. I want to direct my first
question to both Ms. Costigan and Mrs. Fehler. As I indicated
earlier, and several of us have, you have shared very personal
stories, and we are grateful for that. I wanted to note that
part of what your testimony indicated about the impact on each
of you individually, Ms. Costigan talked about being
devastated, but then, thankfully, when the money was returned,
she could calm down, but, Mrs. Fehler, so many times in your
testimony you talked about the impact on you, that you said,
``The bottom did not just fall out of my life. I had dropped
straight into Hell.'' You talked about being depressed and
alone and that you could not function and so many other
expressions of the horror you were living through.
I guess because of that, it cuts through for a lot of
Americans who will hear your testimony, and it allows people to
understand that this can happen, as Senator Collins said, to
any of us, no matter what our background is or no matter what
our age is.
For both of you, your testimony highlighted the importance
of not just helping people to spot so-called red flags, but how
to respond, to make sure there is an adequate response when you
do point to that red flag. This year's Fraud Book focuses on
both, and I think that is one of the real benefits of it.
I guess we will go in alphabetical order, Ms. Costigan and
then Mrs. Fehler. Why is it important to focus not only on
education to prevent scams, which is obviously very important,
but also on resources to respond and to help when the scam
actually occurs?
Ms. Costigan. Well, I feel it would be a little bit of
both, actually, what you are saying, because people of our age,
at our Baby Boomer age, we were very trusting persons. We are
also not tech savvy on computers, in the computer world, which
makes it a lot harder for the elderly people, so that needs to
be brought to attention as well to train elderly people on how
to handle that with computer work.
I feel for Mrs. Fehler because the $1,800 I lost, which
thankfully my bank was able to recover, to me $1,800 was like
having $18,000 taken from me, but for Mrs. Fehler, my heart
goes out to you for what happened to you, and this needs to be
made very more publicly as to this happened in this world,
which is very sad that people are taking advantage the way they
are.
Ms. Fehler. Thank you.
Chairman Casey. Mrs. Fehler?
Ms. Fehler. I believe that we need more resources in the
ability to not have the victim feel that they are totally at
fault. The first thing you do is you may lash out in anger at
the people that are doing it, but then that is cutoff. You do
not have any more to do with it. Then they have put the blame
on you, and you carry that blame, and you are afraid to tell
people, you are afraid to tell your family, because if you are
to blame, how can you take any more pressure? How can you do
any more than what you are doing?
The Seneca Police Department came over and talked to me and
told me they could not do anything. They told me that it would
not do any good to go to the county sheriff's department, it
would not do any good to go to the State department of law,
that I needed to get a hold of some legal people, and I went
through very, very, very--a lot of people, and it was all I
could do. I might be able to make two phone calls a day, and
then I was totally mind-set wiped out, and I think that we need
to be able to allow the plight of senior citizens to also reach
the families and the friends around us, because we are so
afraid of not being able to fill our need as a person that has
had experience. We are so afraid of being labeled. We need
someone that can help and push us on our way and know what some
of those resources can be, because, frankly, I am just
astounded that all the people I talked to, not one of them gave
me the number for the resource line. Not one. Not the Federal
Trade Commission, who I talked to for a long time, they never--
they said they would call me back. They never did. Not the
South Carolina legal assistance. I talked to them once. They
never called--they never got me back in. Nobody got us back in
to help.
It is important that we educate the seniors. One faulty
thing about seniors, one problem with seniors is that some of
us are not so alert and active and able to understand. We need
somebody that knows where we are at mentally and physically
that can tell us the kinds of things that we can do where we
are. If our mental acuity is not quite as good, we need
somebody that does not make us feel that we are no good, and
they need to know the resources, so it is really important,
this book is really important, the number is really important
to get this information out, but I get turned off when nobody
calls back and they say, ``We will get right back with you.''
Or get their name and number, you try and call back, and they
are not available, they are not available, they are not
available. I think that that is horrible. There needs to be a
person that is going to answer, and you need to know who they
are, and they need to hold some accountability for those
resources if they are going to do something.
The Chairman. No question that it is not good enough for us
at a hearing like this to point out the problem. We have got to
be determined to get every level of government to up their
game, every local agency of government, county, State, Federal.
Everyone has got to do more to respond so you do not have that
experience of being victimized and then kind of further injured
by a lack of response.
I have a question, which I will wait for the second round,
to Ms. Pham-Klingler. I will turn next to Ranking Member Scott.
Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am going to ask a question of Ms. Aurelia Costigan. Older
Americans are a popular target for scammers. One reason I am a
cosponsor of the Empowering States to Protect Seniors from Bad
Actors Act, this bill provides $10 million in grant money to
State regulators to help protect seniors from fraud.
Looking back on your experience, what are some of the red
flags and your tips you would like to share with other seniors
that may help them identify possible scammers?
Ms. Costigan. When people call you on the phone and they
ask you questions, do not answer them. If you have any
confusion about it, go to your bank and talk to them in person.
Do not give any information out on the telephone such as Social
Security numbers, online banking numbers, anything of any kind,
because I have learned my lesson.
Senator Scott. It is incredible that we find ourselves in a
place where you have to really question everyone that calls our
seniors. It is just an unnerving position for seniors to find
themselves in, that literally sincere people who are looking to
be helpful and just to do the right thing have to rewire the
way they see the world because of the scammers and fraudsters.
It is a different kind of evil for those folks who take
advantage of our seniors in vulnerable positions.
Mrs. Fehler, I was walking back from my Banking hearing
where I was asking questions and ran into Mrs. Collins, who
said that you were simply spectacular. She really found your
testimony and your responses to her questions to be
illuminating and helpful, and the complexity of the scam as she
heard you articulate it was one that was just unbelievable from
her perspective, so she was really impressed.
You may have answered this in part based on my talk with
her, but I do think that seniors benefit from hearing your
tips, a similar question that I asked just now. I would love to
hear your answers to how do we help seniors in such a
situation. Yours was so complex. How do we find those red flags
and warnings? What tips would you provide?
Ms. Fehler. Well, one thing that is really important, and I
kind of alluded to it at the end of my last statement, but I
think that--let me give an example. USAA is a Federal bank that
I belonged to, like I said, for 41 years. I never talked to the
same person over the more than 50 calls I made except for one
time. His name was Jim. I always had to go through what had
happened. They had notes. They either had to read them or they
had no questions or they could not get me to the person.
When USAA sent me a letter, it was signed by a man that I
could file for bankruptcy. I tried to get a hold of that man.
They would not put me through to him or his office. I said,
``Does he exist?'' They said, ``Well, we think so.'' I never
was able--because USAA comes out of Texas.
Senator Scott. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Fehler. I never was able to talk to anybody, to know
anybody, so I was really--when I got back and was able to
function, I was really able and happy to be able to go to a
small bank--it is Wells Fargo, it is a huge bank, but a small
banking bank, and they took me right in. They talked to me.
They introduced me to the people that would be handling my
account, and when I had the problem where I was so depressed
and I did not know what to do with this loan I could not pay
off, they got me into the people that handle your funds, my
retirement funds, and the two of them together talked to me and
determined that my mental health would be much better if I
could get this loan paid off, and what would be the best way
for me to do that without causing the most loss, because I lost
more money than $20,000 by canceling an IRA, and to have that
kind of care from a financial institution was what I had been
looking for.
USAA, before, I touted it as a great, great place, but you
need someone that knows you and listens to you, and they need
to get their act together, and there are millions of USAA
members that are not going to be met--their needs are not going
to be met if they do not get their act together, and they did
not listen to me at all.
Senator Scott. Thank you very much, and with the little
time I have left, I want to followup with a question to Dr.
DeLiema, because it really is my next question, which is the
mental health consequences and your research on that. Can you
just spend maybe 30, 40 seconds giving me a synopsis?
Dr. DeLiema. Right. I have had the privilege to read
consumer complaints on fraud through my Special Government
agency position with the Federal Trade Commission and also in
interviews with victims, and I have had to take breaks when
reading or listening to their stories about what happened. I
have had to just step aside, do something else, go for a walk
around campus, because it is painful. You know, people talk
about their marriages collapsing when the partner found out,
and they talk about depression, and they talk about trying to
take their own lives.
We should not just think about financial crimes as being,
oh, these have small impacts. The impacts are as severe as
victimization by physical and sexual assault.
Senator Scott. Thank you very much. That is powerful. My
goodness.
The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott.
I will turn next to Ms. Pham-Klingler for a question. For
community education, which I know you know something about, for
that to be effective, it has got to reach all communities, of
course, and that is why Ranking Member Scott and I made it a
priority to ensure the Committee's fraud resources are
available in both English and Spanish. While that is an
important step, we know that there is more work we have got to
do together. There are so many seniors, particularly those in
diverse communities, who are not receiving the information that
they need.
The Federal Trade Commission's Scams Against Older Adults
Advisory Group that I mentioned earlier has an important role
to play in identifying solutions to reach every senior, every
senior who needs tools, information, and support, so I would
ask you, do you have any advice for the Federal Trade
Commission and the Council itself as it begins its work to
ensure that their work takes into consideration the following:
language, accessibility, and other needs?
Ms. Pham-Klingler. Senator, thank you for your question. My
advice would be the methods that we are using to reach our
targeted audience, the same methods that these scammers are
using to perpetrate our victims, such as online, where they
frequent most, social media platforms, reaching out to family
friends, and allowing this to be a more normalized conversation
among each other, and also to provide this in multiple
languages in communities that are less willing to speak up
about being a victim of a scam.
Thank you.
The Chairman. I know we are going to turn next to Senator
Rosen. Senator Rosen I think it might be available virtually.
Senator Rosen. I am here. Thank you, Senator Casey. I
appreciate it. Of course, I am not in the room, but I think
Senator Scott is there. I really appreciate you both for
holding this really important hearing. These stories are
heartbreaking, devastating, and we really need to do something
to protect people, because they do not happen just in one
community or another. They are happening in, of course, my home
State of Nevada, but all across the country, and bad actors
that continue to target and scam Nevadans, particularly our
Nevada seniors, and, in fact, according to data from the
Federal Trade Commission, scams cost Nevadans nearly $36
million in 2020 alone. ID theft fraud remains the top type of
scam targeting Nevadans, much of it done through phishing and
phone calls, and particularly worrisome to me is that scammers
are increasingly holding onto personal data for long periods of
time, even up to a year or two after obtaining it, leaving
seniors and others kind of in the dark as to when their data
might be used. In some cases, we are witnessing scammers
utilizing data obtained in the early days of the pandemic.
Ms. Pham-Klingler, I am told by AARP Nevada that delayed
use of data obtained via scams is really becoming a problem in
our State, and so what should Nevada seniors who may have been
a victim of a scam in the past and they say a lot of time has
passed by, I may not have to worry, how do they protect
themselves now considering that people are using their data now
or might use it in the future?
Ms. Pham-Klingler. Thank you, Senator, for your question.
My advice and my encouragement is for them to safeguard all
their banking information, changing bank account numbers,
monitoring their credit, and ensuring that there is an
alternative person who has oversight over their finances, such
as a loved one or someone that they trust has a secondary eye
on their banking stuff.
Thank you, Senator.
Senator Rosen. Thank you. I want to move to something else
that really happens a lot in Nevada--I know it happens across
the country as well--particularly after disasters, are these
home repair scams, because according to the Nevada State
Contractors Board, since the beginning of the pandemic, there
has been a marked increase in complaints to the board about
unsolicited individuals, you know, they just go door to door in
my town and all across Nevada. They claim to be contractors.
They offer home repairs at lower rates, but, actually, they are
unlicensed, and they put high pressure tactics for people to
put money up front. They leave no paper trail. They gravitate
to some of our communities where the English language is
limited English proficiency, and that compromises a lot of
groups in Nevada.
Dr. DeLiema, are you observing home repair scams across the
country as well, particularly in the wake of natural disasters,
other events exacerbated by climate change, with a lot of
wildfires, of course, up and down Nevada and across the West?
How is the FTC responding to these, and particularly for those
with limited English proficiency?
Dr. DeLiema. Thank you for your question, so scammers flock
to areas where there is disruption. Where there is confusion
and fear, that is just a playground for fraud criminals, so
while I cannot speak from the perspective of the FTC, I can say
that when we think about consumer education, education is best
delivered in the moment that it is most relevant, so when there
is a natural disaster, that is the time we need to alert those
communities to the fact that there will be criminals. There
will be people going door to door to try to take advantage of
them at a time when they are hit hardest emotionally, so, you
know, we need to inform people to not do business with someone
who comes to you. Do your due diligence, so thank you for that
question.
Senator Rosen. Thank you.
Thank you, Chairman Casey. I yield back.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Rosen.
We are coming to the end of our hearing, and I wanted to
start by thanking our witnesses. I will have a closing
statement; then I will turn to Ranking Member Scott.
We cannot thank our witnesses enough for their testimony
today, bringing either personal experience in the case of Ms.
Costigan and Mrs. Fehler, but others bringing experience as
advocates, as experts. The combination is very helpful for not
only the Committee, the members of the Committee and our
staffs, but for the American people.
We hope that a hearing like this and the work that was done
to put together our ``Fighting Fraud: The Top Scams in 2022,''
that this work will lead to people being more and more aware
and to prevent these scams from occurring, and also to get the
help they need when and if a scam does impact their lives.
Your stories and those of others who have appeared before
this Committee further demonstrate our determination to prevent
these terrible scams in the first place and to bring justice,
swift, significant justice to the criminals who engage in this
conduct. No one should lose a single penny of their hard-earned
money to a con artist, and that is why I was proud that
Congress passed the bipartisan Stop Senior Scams Act to ensure
we can develop the tools and resources to prevent seniors from
becoming victims of these crimes. It is also why Ranking Member
Scott and I have worked closely to release the revamped Fraud
Book that I just made reference to both in English and in
Spanish to ensure seniors have the tools and information that
they need.
I look forward to continuing this bipartisan work together,
and I now turn to Ranking Member Scott for his closing
statement.
Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding such an
important hearing on a topic that really is heart-wrenching.
Thank you to each of the panelists for taking your time and
investing your energy and your expertise on such an important
topic.
Mrs. Fehler, thank you so much for spending your time here
and representing our State so well.
Ms. Fehler. Could I add one comment, sir?
The Chairman. Sure.
Ms. Fehler. Thank you, Chairman Casey. I think that if an
independent organization could hear appeals from people who
have been denied reimbursement, when the bank themselves makes
the decision that this is not viable, they are the ones losing
the money. Of course, they are going to lean toward that. That
is a biased finding. Is there any way we can make them have an
independent organization that would overview anybody that wants
to appeal one of their decisions? If we could look forward to
something like that, that would be great.
Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, and we will certainly take that
into consideration. We learn a lot from these hearings, and we
also get a lot of good ideas, so we are grateful that you are
sharing that.
Senator Scott. Absolutely.
Ms. Fehler. Sorry to interrupt.
Senator Scott. No, ma'am. If I am going to be interrupted,
at least it is by a South Carolinian. Thank you very much. I
appreciate that. Necessarily so sometimes.
Most of my good ideas, Bob, come from people in South
Carolina, not from my own cranial cavity, so this is good news
that continues to show fruit.
855-303-9470. The one thing I will say that is important, I
thought having the Chairman mention the number twice during his
opening comments and me mentioning the number at least once or
twice was good enough, but after listening to the testimonies
and after hearing how hard it is to coordinate and to have
collaboration on the parts of our seniors who are in desperate
straits, I do not know that you could say the number often
enough, so I will say it one more time: 855-303-9470.
Mr. Chairman, I will just close with this comment as
opposed to going through my prepared remarks. Inflation is sky
high. Nest eggs are being hammered. Our seniors cannot afford
$1 billion--$1 billion--of lost money because of scams. It is
unconscionable. I believe that the testimonies that we have
heard today will help seniors keep more of their money and
hopefully put up a firewall to the scammers and fraudsters who
are taking too much of the resources of people who work their
entire lives to have them.
Thank you all for being here with us today.
The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott, and thanks
for referring to the number again. I will read it one last time
just so that we have said it approximately an equal number of
times: 1-855-303-9470, and I want to thank the Ranking Member
for emphasizing that.
I did not acknowledge one of our Senators who was with us
today as well. Senator Warnock was with us as part of this
hearing, and I wanted to note as well, I want to thank both of
our staffs for working on this book. This is new and improved,
and I said it is in both English and Spanish, but just give
people seeing the hearing some sense of what is inside, just to
give an example, for example, the number one scam in the top
ten is Government imposter scams, so the summary of that
appears on page 15.
Right after that, you have a section called ``Red Flags,''
which are things to look for, but maybe most important is the
steps to prevent and respond, and I think that is very
important for people to take a look at.
The first step to prevent and respond is if someone calls
and let us say it is a Government imposter scam, hang up the
phone. Hang up the phone and do not reply to the email, so it
goes on from there giving other advice, but it is very
practical and it is important that we have data about how many
of these scams occur, but it is even more important that we
give information about how that individual should react in the
moment, and so we are grateful that our staffs worked so hard
on that.
I want to thank again all of our witnesses for your
testimony, whether it comes from your personal experience of
having been a victim or your own work and scholarship and
advocacy. Both are so valuable.
I want the Senators to know on the Committee that if any
Senator has additional questions for the witnesses or
statements to be added to the record, the hearing record will
be kept open for seven days, until next Thursday, September
29th.
Thank you all for participating. This concludes today's
hearing.
[Whereupon, at 11:21 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
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APPENDIX
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Prepared Witness Statements
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Questions for the Record
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Statements for the Record
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Dr. Marti DeLiema (slide 1)
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Dr. Marti DeLiema (slide 2)
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