[Senate Hearing 117-494]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-494
WATER RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT ACT OVERSIGHT: USACE IMPLEMENTATION OF
WATER INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS, PROGRAMS AND PRIORITIES
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HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON
ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
JANUARY 12, 2022
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
49-632 PDF WASHINGTON : 2022
COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont Virginia,
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island Ranking Member
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama
MARK KELLY, Arizona JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
ALEX PADILLA, California ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
JONI ERNST, Iowa
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
Mary Frances Repko, Democratic Staff Director
Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
JANUARY 12, 2022
OPENING STATEMENTS
Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware.. 1
Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West
Virginia....................................................... 3
WITNESSES
Connor, Hon. Michael, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Civil
Works.......................................................... 5
Prepared statement........................................... 7
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Carper........................................... 14
Senator Whitehouse....................................... 15
Response to an additional question from Senator Merkley...... 17
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Kelly............................................ 17
Senator Padilla.......................................... 21
Response to an additional question from:
Senator Capito........................................... 24
Senator Cramer........................................... 24
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Wicker........................................... 24
Senator Sullivan......................................... 26
Spellmon, Lieutenant General Scott, Chief of Engineers and
Commanding General, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers............... 28
Prepared statement........................................... 30
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Carper........................................... 35
Senator Whitehouse....................................... 36
Senator Kelly............................................ 36
Senator Cramer........................................... 39
Senator Wicker........................................... 39
Senator Sullivan......................................... 43
WATER RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT ACT OVERSIGHT: USACE IMPLEMENTATION OF
WATER INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS, PROGRAMS AND PRIORITIES
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WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 12, 2022
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Environment and Public Works,
Washington, DC.
The Committee, met, pursuant to notice, at 3:03 p.m. in
room 106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper
(Chairman of the Committee) presiding.
Present: Senators Carper, Capito, Cardin, Whitehouse,
Markey, Stabenow, Kelly, Inhofe, Cramer, Boozman, Sullivan, and
Ernst.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE
Senator Carper. I am pleased to call this hearing to order.
Today, we are going to continue our work on this year's
Water Resources Development Act, affectionately known as WRDA.
We will be hearing from our distinguished witnesses from the
Army Corps of Engineers, Assistant Secretary Connor, welcome,
and to also welcome General Spellmon.
We thank both of you for joining us.
I think just earlier today, I think it was earlier today,
that each of you appeared before the House Committee on
Transportation and Infrastructure. Is that correct? It is like
a day, I am tempted to say day and night double header like
they have in baseball, but it is a morning and afternoon double
header. We are grateful that you are here. It is a big day for
WRDA on Capitol Hill.
Let me start by taking a moment to note our Committee's
successful track record on bipartisan water legislation. I am
proud of the work by all of our colleagues and our staff
members. I am grateful for the partnership that I enjoy with
Ranking Member Senator Capito on these issues and on so many
others. This has made it possible for us to pass a Clean
Drinking and Wastewater bill as part of the historic bipartisan
infrastructure law last year and to pass and then enact
multiple bipartisan water resources development bills in the
last several years.
Those of us on this Committee know that the process of
working on WRDA every 2 years presents us with an opportunity
to assess the Army Corps of Engineers' operations, to see how
we can better support and equip this vital infrastructure
agency with the tools it needs to succeed. The Corps has an
extraordinarily important and difficult mission, as we know,
with project needs that far outweigh the available resources
allocated to it.
Indeed, due to years of underfunding, the backlog of
authorized but not completed projects has grown to over $100
billion. That is more than 15 times the agency's annual
operating budget, 15 times.
Demand for projects so outstrips the supply of resources
that the Corps is placed in an untenable position. Moreover,
its decisionmaking process grows far more difficult as the
agency struggles to address both backlogged projects and the
new needs of many communities grappling with the impacts of
climate change, such as sea level rise and extreme weather.
Fortunately, with the passage of the Infrastructure
Investment and Jobs Act and several supplemental funding bills,
along with what we expect will be included in the annual
appropriations measures, the Corps will be looking at a total
of somewhere between $80 billion to $100 billion in available
annual funding over the next 5 years. It doesn't wipe out the
backlog, but it is a great step in the right direction.
With the significant influx of funding, we now have an
opportunity to take the time to review the Corps' statutory
authorities and make sure the agency spends these resources
wisely, fairly, and in the areas of greatest need. Many
smaller, disadvantaged communities, including those in rural
and tribal areas, have great infrastructure needs. Yet they are
typically the last to receive assistance due in large part to
outdated budgeting practices.
That is why we included several provisions in the 2020 WRDA
bill directing the Corps to increase its work with
disadvantaged communities. We are interested in hearing from
our witnesses today about how this work is going and how our
Committee can work with the Corps to better assist these
vulnerable communities.
It is also imperative that we discuss how the Corps' work
must adapt to the increasingly powerful storms, more
devastating floods, encroaching sea levels, and the seemingly
endless droughts we continue to witness across our country. To
better respond to these worsening impacts of climate change,
the Corps needs to update its economic assessments and
engineering standards.
Assistant Secretary Connor, let me again congratulate you
on your confirmation. Assistant Secretary Connor, I recently
wrote to you about the need to update engineering standards in
response to directives from recent WRDA bills. This includes
the implementation of natural and nature based project planning
requirements.
As my colleagues frequently hear me say, Delaware is the
lowest lying State in our Nation. Our State is sinking, and the
seas around us are rising. Other States are seeing something
similar to that, particularly along our coasts. We are acutely
aware of the need to develop solutions that not only work today
but also will protect us well into the future.
Incorporating natural infrastructure into resilience
efforts in Delaware and other States has been and continues to
be a critical element of long term solutions. The Corps needs
to erase and use natural infrastructure in combination with
engineered solutions to mitigate the impacts of climate change.
That means ensuring local project sponsors are aware that
natural infrastructure is an available option in project
demand.
Moreover, the Federal Government needs to plan for the
climate reality that we face. And we know that failing to do so
comes at a steep cost. The seven most severe storms since 2000
cost our country a total of $1.3 trillion. Let me say that
again. The seven most severe storms since the year 2000 cost
our country a total of over $1.3 trillion, as homes and cars
were destroyed, peoples' jobs and lives were uprooted, and
traveling and tourism came to a halt--$1.3 trillion.
Throughout the past 30 years, much of the Corps' funding
has been provided in response to disasters, not in preparation
for them. Our country must become more proactive, addressing
climate change before the storms arrive and preventing these
massive losses in the first place.
So let's begin our work on WRDA this year with equity in
climate in mind, along with traditional issues such as
navigation and flood control. Let's keep them at the top of our
minds. My hope is that today's hearing will provide us with
important insights into these challenges.
General Spellmon, Assistant Secretary Connor, we look
forward to hearing your insights that will better inform our
work on this next authorization bill. Welcome.
Senator Capito, I am delighted to recognize you for any
comments you would like to make.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA
Senator Capito. Thank you, Chairman Carper.
Welcome to our witnesses, Assistant Secretary Connor and
General Spellmon.
Last year, this Committee took the lead in the passage of
the historic bipartisan infrastructure legislation, the
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. I am pleased to begin
2022 with a discussion of how we can build upon that success by
advancing the Water Resources Development Act, which we call
WRDA, and get this legislation to enactment.
Since 2014, the Committee has kept to its biennial WRDA
schedule authorizing water resource projects and setting
national policies for the Civil Works Program of the U.S. Corps
of Engineers every 2 years. I look forward to continuing this
track record.
The Corps' main mission are in the areas of navigation,
flood risk management, ecosystem restorations, safeguard our
communities, and support economic growth. This fact was
underscored just a few months ago when portions of Louisiana
were protected from devastation thanks to the Corps projects
constructed in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.
Moreover, recent supply chain disruptions and accompanying
inflation have highlighted the continued need for investments
in our Nation's ports and waterways which facilitate the
movement of billions of tons of goods and commodities in the
United States. These projects and activities are authorized and
directed by Congress through our WRDA legislation.
The most recent iteration of WRDA in 2020 included several
project specific authorizations, modifications, as well as
programmatic reforms. It also provided the Corps with a number
of new authorities. The Committee continues to oversee the
implementation of provisions from prior WRDA legislation.
I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on the status
of the implementation of WRDA 2020 as well as other outstanding
policy changes. I also expect there will be project specific
questions from our members. All this will inform the
Committee's work on future WRDA legislation which has begun in
earnest.
I thank all of my Senate colleagues and their staff because
they have submitted their proposals for the Committee's
consideration. As I have previously said, it is important that
any future WRDA legislation supports the timely and efficient
delivery of water resource projects in communities that need
them while continuing to meet our national priorities.
We must also ensure that communities have access to the
requisite technical expertise to address their water resources
challenges. The opacity of the Corps' process and programs is a
recurring issue. We must not be overly proscriptive, however.
Our Nation's water resources are diverse, and communities know
more about their needs than the policymakers here in
Washington, DC. We must preserve the role of our non-Federal
sponsors in project delivery processes.
We must also take care not to divert the Corps' focus away
from its primary mission areas. That said, the Corps ought to
work with Congress and vice versa to make sure we are spurring
innovation. And now is the time to deliver those projects
better or faster. And as the General and I were speaking
earlier in the lead up to this that with the enormous infusion
of funds, delivery of this legislation comes as the Corps
manages the $17 billion in supplement appropriations provided
to it by the IIJA which includes funding for WRDA 2020
authorities. That is more than double the annual appropriations
and represents a real opportunity to reduce the backlog of some
Corps projects.
Prompt responses to oversight requests from the Committee
regarding this funding are critical. I look forward to hearing
from our witnesses about the Corps' next step to implement the
legislation.
In that vein, I would like to thank the staff at Corps
headquarters and the Assistant Secretary's office for their
attention to Committee requests for information regarding prior
WRDA legislation, and in advance for their continued assistance
as we move forward.
Let me reiterate my gratitude to our witnesses for being
here today. As I have said in prior hearings, the mission of
the Corps are more critical than ever. The testimony we will
hear today will inform the Committee as it moves into its
integral role in improving our Nation's infrastructure.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back my time.
Senator Carper. Senator Capito, thank you very much.
Now it is our witnesses' turn to share their thoughts with
us today and respond to our questions. We will begin with
Assistant Secretary Connor.
Mr. Connor, you are recognized for your statement. Again,
congratulations on your confirmation. We look forward to
working with you today and beyond.
Thank you.
STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL CONNOR,
ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE ARMY FOR CIVIL WORKS
Mr. Connor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Capito,
members of the Committee. I appreciate the opportunity to be
here with my partner, General Spellmon, to testify regarding
WRDA 2022.
I am Mike Connor, as has been noted, serving as Assistant
Secretary of the Army for Civil Works, a position I have been
in since November 29th of last year. Thank you again to this
Committee for moving my nomination forward. I have submitted my
written testimony and will summarize a few highlights.
The U.S. Army Civil Works Program is the largest water
resources program in the Nation. It serves three primary
missions: Flood and storm damage reduction, commercial
navigation, and aquatic ecosystem restoration. It also
addresses a host of other water resources and infrastructure
needs as directed by Congress.
The Corps of Engineers have contributed significantly
toward the Nation's well being, supporting the economy with its
infrastructure and protecting and improving the lives of
Americans with actions to address flood risk, environmental
protection needs, even drought. Today, the Army Corps is
committed to the national effort to work as partners with
communities to improve their resilience to extreme weather
events and other challenges related to a changing climate.
As the President has made clear, this Administration is
focused on increasing infrastructure and ecosystem resilience
and decreasing climate risk for communities based on the best
available science; promoting environmental justice in
disadvantaged, underserved, and rural communities; and creating
good paying jobs.
The Army Civil Works Program will continue to work within
its own authorities to tackle the climate crisis at home. Of
course, we participate in the whole of government effort,
including the Interagency Water Subcabinet and the Coastal
Resilience Interagency Working Group.
WRDA 2022 is where we can continue to ensure the
authorities necessary to implement the Administration's
priorities. The President has set a goal that 40 percent of the
overall benefits of Federal investments flow to disadvantaged
communities, the Justice40 Initiative. I am committed to
working with Lieutenant General Spellmon to seek opportunities
to secure environmental justice and spur economic opportunity
for disadvantaged communities that disproportionately
experience the adverse effects of climate change.
I should also make clear the Army's role in supporting a
broad range of infrastructure and landscapes. The Army works
with our Nation's coastal ports to maintain their channels;
operates and maintains the inland waterways of commerce;
supports State, tribal, and local flood risk management
activities; restores significant aquatic ecosystems; and
operates and maintains significant multipurpose dams and
reservoirs that exist behind those dams.
It is a great story. But much of the water resources
infrastructure that the Army Corps owns and operates was
constructed over 75 years ago and will require significant
investments to maintain. As noted here, there have been
significant investments, and we appreciate Congress' support.
As the Army works on policy and administrative changes to
improve infrastructure development and regulatory
responsiveness, my staff and I are looking at authorities,
policy, regulations, and procedures to identify opportunities
for increased efficiency and effectiveness.
This is particularly necessary given the substantial
resources provided to the Corps this past year and the
importance Congress ascribes to our programs. We want to ensure
that Army Civil Works is using its significant capabilities in
an equitable manner, that it incorporates natural and nature
based infrastructure solutions into resiliency efforts, that it
reduces redundancy, and that it delegates authority for
decisionmaking to the appropriate level. I am committed to
working closely with the Chief of Engineers and his commanding
officers to position the Civil Works Program for continued
success.
With respect to specific matters of interest to the
Committee, we are working with OMB to finalize a proposed rule
to implement WIFIA as provided for in the 2020 Energy and Water
Appropriations Act. This proposed rule would implement a new
Federal credit program to support investment in non-Federal dam
safety projects through credit assistance to maintain, upgrade,
and repair non-Federal dams.
This new Federal credit program will provide another way
for non-Federal dam owners and managers to enhance the safety
of their dams while also addressing water supply, energy, and
environmental needs in a changing climate.
The Army has completed 18 WRDA 2020 implementation guidance
documents and made substantial progress on the remaining
guidance. Certain provisions may require rulemaking. And you
have my commitment that WRDA 2020 implementation will be a
priority and that we will complete the remaining implementation
guidance documents and rulemakings.
The Army is also making progress on key regulatory issues.
Together, we are working closely with the EPA to develop a
durable definition of Waters of the United States informed by
science, experience, and expertise to protect all interests
dependent on clean water.
The Army has also lifted the temporary pause on finalizing
Section 404 permits in November 2021 and is working to resolve
the vast majority of the outstanding jurisdictional
determinations.
The Army is also moving forward to coordinate with
certifying authorities on water quality certifications that are
potentially impacted by the recent vacatur of the 2020 Clean
Water Section 401 rule.
With that, I look forward to answering any questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Connor follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Carper. Mr. Connor, thanks so much.
General Spellmon, you are on. Welcome. Thanks.
STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT GENERAL SCOTT SPELLMON, CHIEF OF
ENGINEERS AND COMMANDING GENERAL, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS
General Spellmon. Chairman Carper, Ranking Member Capito,
and distinguished members of the Committee, good afternoon. I
am honored to testify before you today with Mr. Connor. Thank
you for the opportunity to discuss our execution of and your
oversight of the Corps' Civil Works Program.
I look forward to discussing the status of implementation
of recent Water Resources Development Acts as well as questions
the Committee may have regarding anticipated legislation for
2022. Most importantly, I look forward to continuing to work
with the Committee, with Congress, and the Administration to
address the Nation's water resources infrastructure needs.
The infrastructure authorized by the Water Resources
Development Acts and implemented by Corps is critical for the
Nation's economic growth and for our national security.
Ultimately, they benefit all American citizens.
We greatly appreciate the Committee's continuing commitment
to enacting WRDAs on a 2 year cycle. This predictability has
enabled critical water resources projects to be authorized for
study and construction. This succession has also provided
regular updates to our authorities, modernizing our
methodologies, and enhancing flexibility in the policies we
utilize to execute our missions.
We maintain a dedicated commitment to our partners and
value the engagement we have held with stakeholders to gain
their input in shaping guidance for implementation of these
authorities.
While the focus of this hearing may be on the prospective
legislation being considered by the Committee, it is important
for me to acknowledge the recent, significant growth in the
Corps' Civil Works Program that we have experienced over the
past several years. The challenge that we have for us in the
Corps is that we are structured, we are organized, we are
manned for what has historically been a $20 billion to $22
billion annual program. It is civil works, it is the work we do
for the VA, certainly the work we do for the Army and the Air
Force and our combatant commanders in 110 countries around the
globe today.
Our current program is not $20 billion to $22 billion. It
is $84 billion, and it is growing. Our Civil Works Program has
seen the greatest growth in these past 5 years going from a $7
billion annual budget to more than a $48 billion annual budget.
That is when you include all of the supplemental appropriations
Congress has given us.
This money provides the Corps with a once in a generation
window of opportunity to deliver water resources infrastructure
programs and projects that will positively impact the lives of
communities across this great Nation. It is an opportunity we
are taking advantage of to transform our organization and our
decisionmaking processes to safely finish quality projects on
time and within budget.
We are taking major steps to proactively identify risks, to
execute our mandates and developing measures to reduce,
resolve, or eliminate those risks, measures such as
accelerating recruitment through direct hiring authorities and
transforming our workplace to attract and retain the top talent
that will help us in fortifying our technical expertise to
effectively develop and implement infrastructure projects.
The Corps is also combining traditional and alternative
delivery concepts that allow us to develop additional
contracting tools and enhance our partnership efforts. By
evolving our programs, our planning, and our operations, we are
able to better address impacts from important drivers like
global climate change.
Additionally, the Corps continues to provide meaningful
engagement opportunities for overburdened and underserved
communities and Native American Tribes to encourage and enable
participation in decisions that impact their communities.
The Corps does not accomplish anything by itself. We use
our engineering expertise to address some of the most pressing
water resource challenges we face as a Nation today. My top
priorities include identifying the highest priority investments
and that we safely deliver quality projects on time and within
budget.
I strongly feel that to achieve this vision, we must
execute a comprehensive research and development strategy to
meet the challenges of the 21st century. We will accomplish
this strategy with our partners in government, industry,
academia, both nationally here in the United States and
internationally. From climate change to war fighting, from
overextended infrastructure to cyber security, there is no
shortage of challenges that will require bold new research and
development to solve.
Thank you again, Chairman Carper, Ranking Member Capito,
and members of the Committee. I look forward to answering any
questions you may have.
[The prepared statement of General Spellmon follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Carper. General Spellmon, thank you. Thanks for
joining us, and thanks for your service over how many years of
service now?
General Spellmon. Thirty-five, sir.
Senator Carper. But who is counting? You started at what,
about 12?
[Laughter.]
General Spellmon. Sir, I came on active duty in 1986.
Senator Carper. All right. I think we are going to start
voting here in a very short while in the Senate. Let me just
ask our staff, would somebody just check and make sure they are
going to kick it off at 3:30? OK, good.
What I might do, Senator Capito, is just head over there
right now. I know you have another engagement. I will vote and
come back, if you can just keep things moving. Then you can
vote and take care of that other engagement.
Senator Capito. OK.
Senator Carper. With that, why don't you lead us off in
questions.
Senator Capito. Do you want to question first?
Senator Carper. No. I will go vote. I am going to go so I
will be there when they start voting.
Senator Capito. If you are asking me to go first, I am
going to yield to Chairman Inhofe to let him have my spot.
Senator Carper. The order, I might mention the order.
Senator Capito, Senator Cardin, Senator Inhofe, Senator
Whitehouse, Senator Boozman, Senator Stabenow. Thank you all. I
will be back shortly.
Senator Inhofe. First, let me thank Senator Capito for
allowing this to take place in this order.
I have had occasion to spend some time with both General
Spellmon and Michael Connor. And we are in agreement on so many
different things, and it is so important for my State of
Oklahoma.
I have to share with the rest of the people here how
serious of a flood we had in 2019. The only ammunition that we
had at that time was the Tulsa levee and the West Tulsa levee
system. This actually was at a time, when it was put together,
actually when I was 4 years old. It far exceeded its service
life.
So we had the levee system. And when our flood came in
2019, more people, professionals, believed that we were going
to be breaking the levee and having a really disastrous
situation. And it did perform, and I can remember actually
personally being down there when the water was coming through.
Nobody thought it was going to be able to hold.
We put in emergency things right after that. Now we are in
a situation which certainly Secretary Connor is familiar with,
assuming that it is serious. I know you are aware of the
seriousness of this thing.
So we have this levee system, and we are hoping and doing
everything we can to ensure that we are going to be able to
hold this out in the event of another one. It was a close call,
a very close call.
The other thing that wanted to make sure I had time to
mention is our MKARNS. People don't realize that we are
navigable in Oklahoma. We are the most inland navigable system
in the country. And it is something that people don't realize.
We have more miles of freshwater shoreline than any of the
other 50 States.
Now, there is a reason for that. It is because ours are all
manmade lakes. And manmade lakes, they give you a lot of
shoreline because they have a dam down here and then go across.
So people are not aware, but that is something that is serious.
The other thing that is of concern is that we are navigable
in terms of having the capability to take care of the things
that we need. For example, our navigation way coming to the
State of Oklahoma is about 98 percent 12 foot channel. But that
means that we have 2 percent that is not a 12 foot channel. It
is a 9 foot channel. That is one of the things that has been on
our list for a long period of time. It has been authorized, and
I just want to make sure that I take this opportunity, Mr.
Connor, of reminding you of what you and I talked about before,
and the seriousness of what we are facing now with these two
projects, one being of course the levee system, that it would
hold up for not another 100 years, but to start working
immediately with top priority. I believe I asked that along
with the deepening of the MKARNS.
Would you share your thoughts on those two projects?
Mr. Connor. Senator Inhofe, thank you for the conversations
regarding these projects and the ongoing dialogue. I think they
represent two very high priority aspects of the overall Corps
of Engineers program, that is obviously with respect to the
levees, our need to maintain, rehabilitate, and do any new
construction with an eye toward resilience. Particularly given
the 2019 flooding situation, we know what extreme events can
bring. And so that brings a focus to the need to move forward
with your project in West Tulsa.
Then the inland waterways issue, the 12 foot navigation
channel, I think during my confirmation process, I mentioned
that I had looked up the [inaudible] background in preparation
for a talk with you and I saw the Port of Tulsa. I really was a
little taken aback at the Port of Tulsa.
But my first trip out of the box here was on the
Mississippi River and the Illinois River, seeing the dam and
lock system, the navigable, talking to the folks involved in
our navigable waterways, inland waterways, and moving commerce
on that system and the need for reliability, the benefits that
exist with efficient delivery and our need to maintain and
improve that system so that it continues to be an important
part of our commerce system. That is part and parcel, that is
one of our priorities, the supply chain, shoring up the supply
chain. And so from that standpoint, I am with you on the
importance of those projects, sir.
Senator Inhofe. I appreciate that very much.
The last thing I would mention is on our lakes development,
It seems like, I never knew why it was this way, but it always
seemed they were always concerned with navigation and flood
control but not recreation. We have so many great opportunities
for recreation. And this is something we have started looking
at now for the first time.
I actually was Chairman I guess of this Committee during
the 2007 WRDA legislation. We made some advancements at that
time, and again in 2020. But I would like to say that we have
all changed on our priorities on the lake system that we have.
And we recognize recreation is a very important opportunity for
us in our State of Oklahoma. I would hope you would agree that
is an area we need to concentrate on for everyone's benefit.
Mr. Connor. Absolutely, Senator. I have a long history at
the Interior Department. I was delighted to hear, when I came
over in this position, to find out that we have more
campgrounds within the Army Corps of Engineers system than the
National Park Service.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Connor. So I understand the importance of that.
Particularly during the pandemic, we have seen how people have
gone to recreate at Federal facilities outdoors. It is an
incredibly important part of the portfolio because it serves
those communities in which we exist.
Senator Inhofe. I appreciate that.
Thank you, Senator Capito.
Senator Capito [presiding]. Senator Cardin.
Senator Cardin. Thank you, Madam Chair. Let me thank both
of our witnesses for their work.
Secretary Connor, as you can imagine, for a Maryland
Senator, the health of the Port of Baltimore is critically
important. Maintenance dredging is absolutely essential.
When I first started in the House of Representatives many
years ago, probably the greatest challenge was to find
locations where we could put dredged material. But since we
started Poplar Island, which became an environmental
restoration as well as a location for dredged materials, we
have overcome that controversy.
I appreciate our conversation that we had last year about
Mid-Bay which is the next scheduled location for environmental
restoration, beneficial use of dredged materials and to make
sure that we can maintain our channels and have a location for
the dredged material.
You said very nice things about it back then. I just wanted
to give you an opportunity to say, now that we are ready to
start actual construction, that this is a top priority of our
regional delegation. And I would hope we will receive your full
support.
Mr. Connor. Senator Cardin, I am not ready to make any
announcements about any work plans that may be coming out in
the near future. But absolutely, my time spent here in this
position has only doubled down on my views of the benefits of
the program that specifically you are mentioning that is
happening in the Chesapeake Bay, the beneficial use of that
dredged material. The need to do more of that is something that
we need to work through. We are doing it in your area. We need
to take that knowledge and that partnership that we have and do
that more in other places. And we need to work through those
cost issues.
I think with the pilot projects that are moving forward,
the 10 we have selected are only partially funded at this point
in time. We can demonstrate that. But I am very impressed with
the work that has been done in Maryland in the Chesapeake Bay.
And it is something we absolutely want to continue, absolutely,
sir.
Senator Cardin. Thank you very much for that. We are on
schedule in this appropriations cycle. If the work of the
committees ends up in an omnibus appropriations bill, there
will be additional support there for Mid-Bay to start
construction.
So I recognize your answer, and I thank you very much for
your support for beneficial use of dredged materials where we
are able to accomplish what we need to for dredging sites as
well as in environmental progress.
General Spellmon, I want to talk a little bit about Section
510 that was in the last WRDA Act. We substantially increased
the authorization of Section 510 funding. It is a source that
we looked upon as one of the most encouraging areas for
restoration of the Chesapeake Bay and a lot of the work done in
the Chesapeake Bay Partnership Program.
The challenge is we have to get it funded now that it is
authorized to get into your work plan. Can you share with us
how we can work together to try to make sure that process moves
forward, consistent with the intent of Congress in the last
WRDA bill?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir. I just want to start out by
saying we appreciate the support of Congress last year in the
$50,000 in 2021 of reprogramming. We used that to complete the
feasibility phase for Plum Creek and North City Park, Maryland,
projects. We would like to get that out of the work plan into a
more predictable funding stream. As you just said, these are
incredibly important projects for the ecosystem and for the
Bay. We just think there are great opportunities out there. We
will continue to make our best technical recommendations to
advance these types of projects.
Senator Cardin. Great. Let's work together because I know
sometimes, we run into the bureaucracy of the budget people in
trying to get these funds flowing the way we intended. Let's
figure out a strategy where we can actually implement the
programs that we intended in the last WRDA bill. I thank you
for your support.
I want to use my remaining minutes to sort of support
Senator Inhofe's point as it relates to what I will call the
small harbors or where we have recreational use. These projects
are numerous in our State and throughout our country. We
recognize it doesn't have the same degree of priority because
the economic impact isn't as direct as the major harbors are.
But they are critically important to smaller communities.
I would hope as we look at the WRDA bill for 2022, Madam
Chair, that we look at a way that we can make progress in
dealing with some of the smaller projects, because communities
really depend upon that. We can really help the economic life
of communities if we deal with some of the standards that are
currently being used that make it very difficult to get these
projects funded.
I just mention that, and I hope we can work together, and I
hope we can work with our leadership here, to figure out a way
to move those projects forward. Thank you.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Assistant Secretary Connor, last year we provided the Corps
with more than $22 billion in additional appropriations with
the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and the disaster
supplemental from Hurricane Ida. Funding obviously is critical,
but if permitting approvals are not issued in a timely fashion,
these projects cannot move forward. Understanding how the Corps
has used and continues to use those funds will help us to
understand what we need to do in the future.
The first question is a very broad one, but the status of
the spend plans for those funds and what is the Corps doing to
help streamline the permitting and environmental review process
so we can get these projects moving?
Mr. Connor. I will start with part one of the question with
respect to the spend plans, the work plans. I can assure you
that I have been spending a good amount of my time since I have
been in this position on those spend plans. I am confident that
we will meet the commitments that Congress set forth in passing
IIJA in particular and thinking that through in the context of
the disaster supplemental as well as fiscal year 2022 and the
fiscal year 2023 budgets.
I look forward to meeting those commitments. I will just
express confidence that we are in a position to do that with
respect to the funding plans.
Moving on to the regulatory program, you are exactly right.
There have been issues coming up in our regulatory program that
I think about, and I know General Spellmon thinks about, in
terms of we have a lot of work to do. So do a lot of other
parties. We want to continue to promote, even in, quite
frankly, a regulatory environment that is changing, we have
changes in administration, we have court orders, and we have to
respond and provide some regulatory certainty for potential
permittees on how we can move forward and do the work that is
necessary under the Clean Water Act in particular.
So we have done that. We have dealt with the court
decisions that have vacated the navigable water protection rule
as well as the 401 certification processes. We have figured out
and are giving guidance to folks. But overall, I would say that
is part of the job, figuring out what we are going to do with
decisions made.
In that interim period, we have done that, too. We are not
going to go back and revisit all decisions that were made. We
are trying to move forward in the processes but recognize that
there may be new information that may warrant revisiting some
of those determinations. That is just going to have to play
out. That is a conversation we need to have with the actual
permittees.
Moving forward, we want to give clarity now so we can move
forward with the business, and then we want to engage, as we
talked about during my confirmation process, Waters of the
U.S., the two step regulatory process, the rulemaking process
that has been proposed, and let's go back to pre-2015 now. That
is a familiar landscape. And then move forward with a very
rigorous process to get to a durable rule that hopefully gets
us out of this litigation cycle. That is what I said during the
confirmation process. I believe it even more strongly now.
Senator Capito. Let me ask a clarifying question. Are you
saying that some of the permits that had already been granted
under the previous Administration could retroactively be
revoked?
Mr. Connor. Not the previous Administration. We are looking
at the tenure of the rule itself. We are not looking at----
Senator Capito. Under that rule, though, are you saying
they could be revoked?
Mr. Connor. I think there is some legal risk that may exist
not because the Corps of Engineers is going to go back and
assess legal risk, but I think permittees are looking at that.
The rule was vacated, and that is new terrain for us.
So I think we all have to think through that from the
agency perspective as well as the permittee perspective. But we
think, in general, we have always held to the position that
decisions made under the appropriate rules at that time are
valid. We are not going to go back.
Senator Capito. So you are not going to go back over those?
Mr. Connor. We are not.
Senator Capito. OK. I thought you were saying in some
cases, you might have to, with new information and other
things.
Mr. Connor. Well, there may be situations where we do that
in consultation with the permittees, because they may want to
limit their legal risk.
Senator Capito. OK.
Let me ask, General Spellmon, in WRDA 2020, we talked about
delivering projects. There was a provision defining
economically disadvantaged communities.
My understanding is the agency has not done that. I want to
know where the development of that definition is and if you are
following through with the directed language from that bill
that said you would use the economic distress criteria that EDA
uses. And if you are following through on that directive, that
you are using that as the definition, and where you are on this
specific provision in the WRDA 2020.
General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am. Thanks for the question. We
are using the EPA tool to help us identify when we need data on
minority----
Senator Capito. The EDA?
General Spellmon. I am sorry, ma'am?
Senator Capito. Did you say EPA or EDA?
General Spellmon. EPA, ma'am.
Senator Capito. Once again, the EDA or EPA?
General Spellmon. The EPA tool.
Senator Capito. So you are not using the EDA
administration's statute that says that is how you use their
economic distress criteria? Is that correct?
General Spellmon. I am sorry; let me go back and follow up
with you on that.
Senator Capito. You are so far away I cannot tell the
difference between a ``D'' and a ``P.''
General Spellmon. I have seen both tools. I have seen the
application of the EPA tool on a number of regulatory actions.
I will go back and follow up on the EDA.
We have been employing the Environmental Justice Executive
Order since President Clinton released that in 1994. So I don't
think we have a problem in identifying and going through that
two part test when we do our feasibility studies and when we do
our construction projects, where we are making recommendations
to the Secretary. I would just briefly take you back to WRDA
2018. We were asked to provide alternative metrics to the
benefit to cost ratio that would better serve underserved
communities, maybe communities in middle America that frankly
the BCR does not serve very well.
Senator Capito. Right.
General Spellmon. We made a number of recommendations. We
came up with a community equity modifier. I just have not had
the chance yet to walk Mr. Connor through the work that we did
following 2018.
What I am saying is I don't think I have a staffing problem
or we are not paying attention. I just think it is just the
metric that is used to grade our homework. We could probably
have another conversation and make a stronger argument for
alternative metrics.
Senator Capito. I think some of these communities, and both
members who have questioned talked about smaller communities
that don't have capacity to be able to know how and when to
work these things or are economically disadvantaged, whether it
is recreational flood control or whatever. So we need you all
to step in there, that is the intent. Hopefully, that is what
you will move forward with.
General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am.
Senator Capito. Senator Whitehouse by Webex.
Senator Whitehouse. Yes. Thank you, Senator Capito.
Good afternoon, gentlemen. I have a general question and
then two Rhode Island specific ones.
The general question has to do with the 2022 budget of the
Army Corps for its Flood and Coastal Damage Reduction Fund. Do
you know what that number is? I will break the silence, and I
will tell you. It is $1.72 billion. Of that $1.72 billion, do
you know how much is allocated for inland versus coastal?
Mr. Connor. I do not know the number specifically.
Senator Whitehouse. It is $1.68 billion. If you do the
math, the difference is $0.04 billion for coastal flooding
which is less than 3 percent of the number.
Of your $1.72 billion, 97.7 percent will go inland. You do
understand that part of the coastal damage that you are
referring to, part of the climate risk that you referred to, is
sea levels rising, worse coastal storms, and resulting coastal
flooding, correct?
Mr. Connor. Yes, Senator.
Senator Whitehouse. All right. So we are going to have to
have a bit of a conversation about why 97.7 percent goes to
inland and about 2.3 percent goes to coastal of that $1.72
billion. May I follow up with you on that, so we are not taking
all our time here?
Mr. Connor. Yes, sir, absolutely.
Senator Whitehouse. Can you defend it quickly? I am I
wrong, or should we have this conversation?
Mr. Connor. I would just say I have begun digging into
that. I know from a budgeting standpoint a little bit about why
there is a discrepancy.
I also understand that you have taken matters into your own
hands with respect to IIJA, BBA 2018, to ensure that there is
significant resources, and appropriately so, I would say. I am
applauding you for that effort given storm surge, sea level
rise, and the risks attending our coasts.
Senator Whitehouse. Let me move on to two other things, and
we will keep working on that.
The two things, one is, I just want to emphasize again the
continuing importance to me of the Providence River Pilings
Removal Project. The Army Corps is taking out an abandoned
bridge. In that project, they are looking at taking out some
pilings around it.
In terms of the conversation we have had about smaller
ports changing their use, the Providence Port area, the
Providence River around our capital city of Providence, it is
no longer industrial. The pilings are long since abandoned.
There are children in sailboats out trying to sail in that
area. People try to fish and swim in that area. And the pilings
are dangerous.
I was told at one point by the Army Corps that you wouldn't
take them out because they weren't a hazard to navigation
because you could sail around them. In my view, something you
have to sail around is the very definition of a hazard to
navigation.
So I just want to flag that for you to keep pressing,
pressing, pressing. It has been years of trying to make some
progress on this. And thank you for the little bit of progress
we got related to the bridge and the immediately surrounding
pilings. But there are other pilings to go.
The second has to do with the Blackstone River where it
runs through Rhode Island, comes down from Massachusetts, runs
through Rhode Island. In the lower Blackstone, there are four
dams we are trying to fix. We need fish passage in order to
keep the environment working and allow the, what do they call
them, the anadromous fish to get up the river. You guys have a
cost per fish analysis that is very hard for us to meet,
because these are urban areas, these are downtown, valuable
areas. This goes back to the original industrial revolution of
colonial days.
So we have got a lot of help that we need with those four
dams. Could you assign someone to help us deal with the cost
per fish ratio, which seems to create a real problem for small
dams, and also for dams that have been there a long time, so
that fish passage is minimum? Because the dam itself has killed
off the fish that would come for passage. But in time, with any
luck and with proper fish passage, then that environmental
resource will revive.
Those are my two Rhode Island specific concerns.
General Spellmon. Sir, I will be real quick. I think we are
going to be fine on the Blackstone River in terms of the
metric, the ecological outputs. I am confident we are going to
make that.
The challenge we are going to have here, you mentioned it,
this is on some very difficult real estate. CAP Section 206 is
capped at $10 million per project. We are probably looking,
with what we know now, at about a $20 million project on this
real estate.
So what we want to do is, we will finish our homework, sir,
and then we will come back to you with what options may be out
there.
Senator Whitehouse. OK. And don't forget those pilings.
Thank you.
Senator Capito. Senator Cramer.
Senator Cramer. Thank you, Madam Chair.
General Spellmon, Assistant Secretary Connor, great to see
both of you. Happy new year; thanks for being here to help us
out.
Mr. Connor, you and I have had some what I thought were
delightful conversations leading up to your confirmation. I am
glad that you are confirmed and in front of us now. I am
looking forward to working with you.
I especially respected and appreciated your expertise on
western water rights issues and your understanding of them. We
will be talking about them in a little bit.
General Spellmon, likewise, thank you. I have appreciated
the last couple of years working with you. You have been very
attentive to North Dakota and North Dakotans and you have been
very responsive to my concerns. I have appreciated that
partnership.
In particular, General Spellmon, I have appreciated the
work you did previously a couple of years ago on rescinding the
real estate policy guidance number 26, and of course,
informally withdrawing the Corps' proposed Surplus Water Rule.
These were very positive steps, as both the rule and the
guidance infringed upon States' rights in complete, in my view,
complete contradiction to existing law. The Water Supply Act
never authorized a one size fits all rule to federalize the
water appropriation authority that is specifically reserved for
States.
With that in mind, as we pursue now a new WRDA, I think we
should consider setting up some sort of a venue or a commission
that would allow States to have a platform to discuss and sort
these issues out with the Corps. It would provide North Dakota
and other western States especially the forum to bring
localized problems that they may be experiencing directly to
you.
In our previous conversations, General, you and I discussed
the potential creation of such a venue. Through your feedback,
you indicated that you want to make sure that we do not
recreate another national policy. Believe me, I agree with you.
Would you agree there would be some value, could be some
value in western States having an advisory board of some sort,
or a commission to bring some of these more niche water issues
to the Corps?
General Spellmon. Sir, I absolutely always welcome feedback
and engagement with States and with our partners and
municipalities out on our waterways. As you know, I have been
working hard to remove a number of what I have termed DC level
obstacles to that conversation. You mentioned policy guidance,
November 26th, we worked hard on the Water Supply Rule. We had
the Secretary in the previous Administration return the surplus
water reports without action, and a number of other things.
Sir, from a purely technical perspective, I would like to
keep this at the local-regional level. I say that just from my
experience in the Water Supply Rule. If I were to bring three
States in this room today, I don't think I could get three
States to agree on congressional terms like surplus water or
natural flows. But I can get to solutions at the local level.
So we are going to follow the direction of Congress. We are
going to, obviously, honor State water rights. I just did not
want to take a step back and start to recentralize a committee
where you have a person like me at the front of the room. I did
not want to return to those days, sir.
Senator Cramer. I rarely see value in another layer of
bureaucracy myself. So I am open to ideas.
Maybe Mr. Connor, you could weigh in on the possibility of
some sort of a venue.
I do think, and you are very familiar with this, western
issues are unique and oftentimes, the consequence, the western
States are a consequence of some other region's policies. That
is my only reason for thinking about this. I am not committed
to it, but I would be interested in your thoughts.
Mr. Connor. Absolutely, Senator. I have appreciated our
discussions, and I think it is your terminology, a fellow
policy geek.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Connor. I share that view and have enjoyed the
discussions. I think that is what this gets to, is as we
discussed, and I think as General Spellmon has alluded to, we
need to look at every tool that we have with respect to water
supply to address some of the challenges, particularly out west
where there is water scarcity across many basins.
So from that standpoint, how do we best figure out, we did
this a long time with the Bureau of Reclamation, we set it up
from the beginning, Section 8 of the Reclamation Act, go to the
States, get your permits, and work it out from there. That is
not how the Corps developed its water resources project,
because they weren't developed for supply.
So how do we get back to having that analysis to move
forward and figure out how we can use these facilities or
manage or operate these facilities in a way that enhances water
supply, that is in watersheds, that is with the relevant States
involved? Because they will be driven by the need for
solutions.
So I completely support what General Spellmon said about
the watershed and the local level. But there is an urgent need,
I think, that you are trying to get at. And I think we can try
to figure out how to meld the two to have this dialogue with
the appropriate folks in the room.
Senator Cramer. I appreciate that. I just want to associate
myself as well with some comments you made earlier in response
to both Senator Inhofe and Senator Cardin about the smaller
recreational opportunities. It is really quite remarkable how
much recreational facility you are responsible for at the
Corps.
In our water scarcity of the West, we are experiencing a
drought right now. If you have been out to Sekakawea before the
freeze, you know there is going to be lot of exposed
infrastructure from previous droughts that needs to be
rehabbed. I am looking for creative ways that we can be helpful
and that you can be helpful and multiple agencies can be
helpful to make sure that regardless who the landlord is that
we actually grow the opportunity for enjoying the lake.
With that, I appreciate again both of you.
I yield.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Senator Duckworth.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Assistant Secretary Connor, welcome. The America's Water
Infrastructure Act, which was enacted in 2018, included my
provision that requires the Corps to analyze Federal policies
that hinder the Corps' ability to address urban flooding. The
previous Administration committed to deliver this study to
Congress by 2019. Unfortunately, it failed to meet its deadline
and never delivered the report.
Assistant Secretary Connor, would you commit to
prioritizing the completion of this study as required under the
2018 WRDA reauthorization? And once completed, provide my
office with a briefing on the results to inform our efforts to
strengthen the Corps' capabilities and capacity to address
urban flooding?
Mr. Connor. Yes, Senator, I commit to following up and to
prioritize giving the report and the information available to
you. I think it fits within the idea that we are looking to
figure out how we can address urban disadvantaged communities
which are disproportionately affected. I think it fits in that
area.
So I know there has been a lot of work done on the report.
I don't exactly know where it is in the process. But it is on
my radar screen now, and it is a priority on the commitment I
just made.
Senator Duckworth. OK. Well, it was due in 2019. So I hope
that it is a priority item.
Do you think it could be completed and release this study
by the end of this month?
Mr. Connor. I don't know that it will be available by the
end of this month, but I will definitely get back with you and
your staff as far as timing, and ensure that I am doing what I
can to break it free, Senator.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you.
This next question is for both witnesses. It is about urban
flooding and disadvantaged communities. The Corps manages a
significant amount of our Nation's infrastructure, and
communities depend on the Corps to implement projects that will
help protect them from harmful flooding and natural disasters.
We have already heard about this today. We need to do this
without worsening pollution problems.
Because many Corps projects are located near or directly
impact low income communities, both urban and rural, and
communities of color, it is critical that the Corps have the
staff capacity to achieve multiple goals for these communities.
These goals include, I feel, prioritizing recovery efforts,
minimizing adverse impacts of projects, and collecting and
integrating input from communities, experts, and other
stakeholders to improve current policies and practices.
Lieutenant General Spellmon and Assistant Secretary Connor,
would each of you describe how the Corps would benefit from
Congress taking action to authorize some form of an advisory
committee to support the Corps' environmental justice efforts
to better serve marginalized and disadvantaged communities?
Also, would the Corps consider prioritizing environmental
justice initiatives across the agency by elevating an official
to specifically advise leadership on this topic?
How do you feel about an advisory committee, and would you
elevate somebody and pin the rose on them to be in charge of
environmental justice, marginalized and disadvantaged
communities?
Mr. Connor. Yes. With respect to an advisory committee, I
think the idea of getting input to ensuring that we are having
communications with those communities and their representatives
about how we can best address the risks they are facing, that
is part of a dialogue that we should be having overall. From
that standpoint, given the Administration's focus on that, I am
definitely open to the idea of an advisory committee. We can
have a dialogue.
Quite frankly, we rely on that. And as we move forward and
we implement the procedures and the requirements to look at how
we can benefit disadvantaged, marginalized communities, we are
going to look to those communities to help best inform us. But
if there is an overarching dialogue that we should be part of,
I am supportive of that, absolutely. We are going to need
somebody, and we are going to have to socialize this throughout
the organization, through the Corps. And I know General
Spellmon has been working with this, because we have talked
about this with respect to addressing environmental justice
needs within the projects and activities that we undertake. We
will certainly take under advisement the idea of elevating
somebody with that specific responsibility.
But even then, that is just a start. We need to integrate
this throughout the organization.
General Spellmon. Senator Duckworth, I would just add, we
are never going to say no to advice, we are never going to say
no to more staff expertise. We would welcome both of these
initiatives.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you.
I yield back.
Senator Carper [presiding]. I think Senator Sullivan is
next.
Senator Sullivan, welcome; how are you?
Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Good to see you.
Senator Sullivan. I want to follow up; gentlemen, good to
see both of you. Very quickly, just on this issue of
environmental justice, marginalized communities, as my good
friend Tammy Duckworth, Senator Duckworth, mentioned. It has
not been you guys yet, it better not be, but the Biden
administration continues on their actually targeting, targeting
of marginalized communities in my State.
Just on Monday, we had, Mr. Chairman, our 21st executive
action targeting solely the great State of Alaska, 21st very
negative for our State. The Inupiat community leaders of the
North Slope put out a press release, great Americans who
don't--this is a press release that in some ways is out of
character. Because they are so angry, Mr. Secretary. They are
so angry because they are being attacked. Native Americans,
marginalized community, environmental justice BS you hear from
this Administration all the time, here is just a couple of
quotes.
This is when they took 50 percent of the National Petroleum
Reserve of Alaska, set aside by Congress for energy
development, 50 percent off the table going all the way back to
President Obama. Not based on science. Radical environmental
groups.
So here is the Inupiat leadership of my State. All this
baloney about environmental justice, marginalized communities,
we really care about helping the most downtrodden communities;
it is baloney. It is. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman. But it is.
Here is the chairman of ASRC: On multiple occasions, ASRC,
the borough and the Tribe have offered to work in partnership
with the Biden administration on issues affecting our region,
the North Slope Borough. Bigger than California, by the way.
Secretary Haaland and President Biden have chosen with this
decision not only to ignore the voices of North Slope Inupiat,
Native Americans, but to exclude us from the decisionmaking
process on issues that impact our Inupiat communities and our
culture.
Here is the Inupiat leader of the Arctic Slope region.
Secretary Haaland has violated her department's consultation
guidance by failing to consult with the Inupiat community of
the Arctic Slope. That is a Tribe. We are a federally
recognized Tribe, and this action directly impacts the
livelihoods of our tribal members. This is further proof that
the Biden administration prioritizes its relationships with
environmental organizations over the sovereignty of Alaska
Natives.
Here is the North Slope borough mayor, Harry Brower,
Inupiat leader. I have a responsibility to the people of the
North Slope to protect the long term sustainability of
communities through a viable economic base, a responsibility I
take seriously for the Native people of my State. Secretary
Haaland is failing in her responsibility to the Alaska Native
people of the North Slope.
Mr. Secretary, it goes on and on and on. All this baloney
about environmental justice, we want to take care of
disadvantaged communities, guess what? There is a huge
exception in the Biden administration. As we, not for Alaska
Natives, we will target them, we will make sure we crush their
economic opportunities.
Can I get both of your commitments not to do this? Twenty-
one executive actions smashing my State. There is no other
State in the country that is getting this kind of focus on
shutting down Alaska, ignoring the Native people, and then they
go to the meeting and say, oh, we care about the disadvantaged
communities of America. That is a bunch of baloney. Not in my
State, they don't.
Mr. Secretary, you and I have talked about this. I am
sorry, I am so angry about this. You haven't done it yet,
General, you haven't done it yet. I sure hope you don't. Do you
have any response? Or can I just get your commitment, don't do
this to my State? If Joe Biden had a Republican administration
that came in on year one and issued 21 executive actions
against Delaware, he would be as mad as I am.
Mr. Connor. Senator Sullivan, I can assure you that
environmental justice and working with marginalized communities
is not baloney to me. I don't believe it is baloney to the
Administration.
Senator Sullivan. But as long as they are not disadvantaged
communities in Alaska. Then they get targeted. Just commit to
me to not do that.
Mr. Connor. My commitment that I am going to work with the
Native communities in Alaska, I talked to Mayor Brower a few
weeks ago about some needs that are up there on the North
Slope. It is an ongoing dialogue. We are going to try and serve
those communities as I think they are being served across the
country.
Senator Sullivan. Well, I want to work with both of you on
whether it is the Port of Nome, what is going on in Barrow. We
had General Gibbs, who was up in Barrow with me this summer,
who did a great job, General. I am sorry, I love the Corps, I
think both of you are very qualified. This is just----
Senator Carper. The Senator's time has expired.
Senator Sullivan [continuing]. Very difficult for my
constituents to have to deal with. And I think it is unfair,
Mr. Chairman, and I would like to have a hearing on this, this
Administration targeting one State with shutdown.
Thank you, gentlemen. I am going to submit questions for
the record.
Senator Carper. Very good.
My staff is going to recognize Senator Markey next, but I
was just handed a note by my senior staff person on water
issues that the issue being raised here regarding the Tribes,
this particular issue is an issue that is under the Energy and
Natural Resources Committee and under the Interior Department.
Let's talk about it after.
Senator Sullivan. I acknowledge that.
Senator Carper. Very good. Thank you.
All right, Senator Markey. Your turn. Thanks for your
patience.
Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much.
The Sagamore and the Bourne Bridges, also known as the Cape
Cod Canal Bridges, connect the nearly 250,000 residents of Cape
Cod to the rest of Massachusetts. And these structures are
essential routes for general transportation, tourism, and
evacuations in case of an emergency, which is more important
than ever as Cape Cod faces the existential threat of climate
change. It is right in the crosshairs, and the only way off of
Cape Cod are these two bridges in the event that a Hurricane
Sandy-like event occurs.
The Army Corps has ably owned and maintained the Cape Cod
Bridges since 1935. Unfortunately, they are now more than 85
years old and are in desperate need of replacement. That is why
I fought so hard to make sure that our recent bipartisan
infrastructure law could provide the resources we need to
replace both bridges. First, we gave Massachusetts and the Army
Corps a huge increase. My State, Massachusetts, is now poised
to receive more than $9 billion in direct Federal
infrastructure funding over the next 5 years, including $1.1
billion for bridge replacement and repair. And the Army Corps
has also received more than $17 billion in new funding for the
next 5 years.
Second, I also helped, working with the Chairman, to make
sure that the bipartisan infrastructure law includes nearly $35
billion in competitive grant opportunities that can now be
targeted for the Cape Cod Bridges.
Assistant Secretary Connor, we have talked extensively
about this project. I appreciate your support that you have
expressed in private. So I just hope at this moment, in a
public hearing, that you would commit to advancing this bridge
replacement effort in Massachusetts. Do you agree that the
infrastructure law provides a path forward and sufficient
funding opportunities to replace the Cape Cod Bridges?
Mr. Connor. Absolutely, Senator Markey. Thank you for the
question. Thank you for the dialogue that we had over the
holidays on this particular issue. I think absolutely the IIJA
does provide the opportunity and the resources for us to move
forward in the bridge project.
As we discussed, I think it is going to be an interagency,
interdepartmental partnership that is going to get this done.
We are working with the Department of Transportation. Even with
the very productive conversations we had before you and I
spoke, we have had ongoing conversations. I had discussions
with leadership at the Department of Transportation on this
effort. So I think we are executing the game plan that we
talked about. We are moving forward on those next steps that we
discussed.
So absolutely, we will keep you posted on that.
Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, very much. And
again, IIJA, for anyone listening, the other name for the----
Mr. Connor. The bipartisan infrastructure bill.
Senator Markey. Yes, the other name for that is Cape Cod
Bridges as it is translated into English in Massachusetts.
[Laughter.]
Senator Markey. Will you commit to ensuring that the Army
Corps applies all of the grant programs it can to complete the
essential project, including opportunities that can be pursued
in collaboration with Massachusetts?
Mr. Connor. Absolutely. We are looking at all
opportunities. We have strong incentive to do that.
Senator Markey. I thank you, Mr. Secretary.
Another issue facing Massachusetts is the growing threat of
more flooding, coastal erosion, and extreme storms, all of
which are supercharged by human caused climate change. Far too
many communities in my State are already experiencing the
devastating impacts of coastal erosion on their beaches, homes,
and businesses, from Plum Island up in Newburyport, down to
Chatham, Revere, Winthrop, and more. Flooding, sea level rise,
and extreme storms are also dire threats for communities like
Boston and Chelsea and others that are potentially
environmental justice communities.
We are fighting every day to make sure that the climate
crisis is not an extinction level event for eastern
Massachusetts. But we have to prepare to respond to the
unavoidable and inevitable impacts.
There is a program that the Army Corps has, the Storm and
Hurricane Restoration and Impact Minimization Program, through
which the Corps can respond. Secretary Connor, would you agree
that this program's funding should be increased in order to
ensure the Army Corps can keep pace with the growing threat of
climate change?
Mr. Connor. Senator Markey, I am not familiar specifically
with this program. Looking at the totality of the needs out
there, and going through our work plan process and
understanding the need, we need to invest more in resilience.
There is no question about it, given all the factors that you
just enunciated.
General Spellmon, with respect to the specific program, you
know about that.
General Spellmon. Exactly, sir, we would certainly support
that. Also, sir, we appreciate Congress' support of the Boston
Regional Coastal Storm Risk Management Study. You gave us a new
start in 2021. We are going to make our best technical argument
for funding if we are offered a 2022 work plan to move out on
that effort.
Senator Markey. Thank you.
That is why, Mr. Chairman, I want to work with you in the
next WRDA bill, the next Water Resources bill, so that we have
the capacity to provide the resources to these great public
servants, so that they can provide the protection for those
very valuable resources along our coastlines that otherwise are
going to be in great jeopardy.
So I thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank both of you for being
great public servants as well.
Senator Carper. Thanks, Senator Markey. Thanks a lot for
joining us and for your passion on these issues. I remember
that bridge, and conversation about that bridge.
Senator Stabenow is on her way back to her office to join
us remotely, and Senator Kelly, why don't I recognize you.
Oh, is she here?
Senator Stabenow. Hello, Mr. Chairman. I am here.
Senator Carper. Great. Go right ahead, then we will turn to
Senator Kelly.
Senator Stabenow. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, as we
are all juggling various things. Thank goodness for being able
to do some of this virtually.
I am very enthused about working with you on the next WRDA
bill.
To Mr. Connor and General Spellmon, thank you for your
leadership on these really important issues.
It is hard for me to think of a single piece of
infrastructure more consequential to our economy than the Soo
Locks up in the UP where as you know, right now we only have
one large lock that will handle freighters, barges coming
through from the St. Lawrence Seaway carrying materials,
carrying finished products, and so on that go not only all
around the Great Lakes region, but really all around the
country.
During my recent visit, I asked the officials from the
Detroit Army Corps what impact front loading all of the
funding, the entire funding so they could do the long term
contracts that are needed to get this thing completed so,
heaven forbid, we don't have a shutdown of the one lock working
and really a disaster economically. But what impact front
loading would have on completing the project. And I was really
pleased to hear, the good news is that if we provide all the
funding up front now for certainty, and they can do the
contracts, we can expedite its completion by up to 2 years, and
potentially up to $200 million.
So it seems like this would be the prudent, efficient,
responsible thing to do. So following the passage of the
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, I led a letter, along
with seven of our Great Lakes Senators, to the Administration
supporting the portion of the Corps' new construction to fully
fund the Soo Locks project. Given the importance of the project
to the Great Lakes region, to the national economy as a whole,
can I count on the Corps to give very serious consideration to
this request?
Mr. Connor. Absolutely, giving it very, very strong
consideration. Important, strategic, as I have looked into it
after we had our initial discussion about the Soo Locks, the
reliance on that system and the lack of redundancy that exists,
it is concerning. It is one of those things that you do wake up
in the middle of the night thinking about.
So from that standpoint, strong consideration, absolutely.
Senator Stabenow. Thank you. Yes, heaven forbid we would
see a Suez Canal type situation, where it is blocked and we
can't move forward.
Speaking of high stakes Corps projects, I want to also talk
again about the Brandon Road Lock and Dam project to install
comprehensive measures to stop invasive carp from entering the
Great Lakes. This is of interest to a number of us on the
Committee, and off the Committee. An event that would result in
irreparable damage to the Great Lakes.
Despite the gravity of the threat, this project has not
progressed nearly quick enough. These fish just keep coming,
whether we are completing this project to stop them or not. We
authorized a feasibility study as part of an award in 2007;
this has been a bipartisan effort. We expedited its completion
as part of the 2012 Highway Bill, and today we still have 3
years remaining on the preconstruction engineering and design.
The carp are continuing to swim up the Mississippi River and
the Illinois River. They are not waiting for us to get this
thing done.
So while I appreciate the Corps' diligence, the pace at
which it moves in adopting innovative solutions across, carries
its own risks. I realize these are new solutions that you have
come up with. But it has been, there has been such caution and
slowness on it. I am very concerned.
How is the Corps working to become more responsive to these
sorts of pressing threats, especially as we look forward to a
whole slew of new and unprecedented challenges as a result of
the climate crisis?
General Spellmon. Senator, this is General Spellmon. I will
tell you, this has our full attention. And I acknowledge, it
will never be fast enough. But as you outlined, we absolutely
have to get the engineering right. We are dealing with new
technologies. We have not put on a structure of this size
before, CO2 curtains, acoustic barriers, light
deterrents. We appreciate, Congress has been generous, as has
the President's budget, to give us all the money we need and
can put to work with our best engineers and architects that are
going very hard on the design for this project.
Ma'am, you have my commitment, we will work to get out a
design as quickly as possible and get to construction.
Senator Stabenow. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Senator Stabenow, thank you for joining us
remotely as we work through this afternoon's series of votes.
Next, I understand Senator Ernst is here; yes, she is here.
Senator Ernst, nice to see you.
Then Senator Kelly.
Senator Ernst. Thank you.
Senator Carper. Thanks to you both for joining us.
Senator Ernst. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, gentlemen, very much for being here. General
Spellmon, always great to see you. I know you have worked so
hard on a number of projects throughout Iowa. We are greatly
appreciative.
In December, Senator Grassley led a bipartisan letter that
I had signed. It stated the importance of the Navigation and
Ecosystem Sustainability Program, NESP, and asking if it gets
prioritized in the course of coming work plan. Iowa has
approximately 85,000 farms, 95 percent of which are family
owned. As we work to make American farm exports more abundant
around the world, we also need to maintain a strong and
efficient inland waterways navigation system. The 20 most
recent new starts for the inland waterways system, only one was
in the upper Mississippi River Basin.
So, Mr. Secretary and General, can you make any assurances
today that NESP, specifically for me, Lock and Dam 25, will be
prioritized in the upcoming Corps work plan?
Mr. Connor. Senator Ernst, thank you for the question, and
raising the issue. It is being given strong consideration as
part of the work plan process. As I noted earlier, I was out,
one of my first trips out of the box was on the Mississippi,
and on the Illinois River, and becoming familiar with the users
of the inland waterway system. I recognized from that meeting
and the explanations the importance from an agricultural
perspective, the supply chain as a whole, in and out, the
reliability of this system, that is certainly part of that
process.
So as directed by Congress, we will be making substantial
investments for following the capital investment strategy. And
it is going to get strong consideration.
Senator Ernst. OK, and General Spellmon?
General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am, so we are making the best use
of the $5 million that Congress gave us in the 2021 work plan
to advance the design for Lock and Dam No. 25, adjacent mooring
cells, and of course, there is a correlated ecosystem
restoration project. We want to make sure when the
Administration makes its decision that we are absolutely ready
to go to construction. These are important projects.
Senator Ernst. Very important projects. I appreciate your
commitment. And if we need to make any further discussion
opportunities in the future, let me know. I am happy to visit
with both of you. But it is a priority for us. Thank you very
much for that.
Certainly one of the priorities for the WRDA 2022 would
require the Corps to submit a report to Congress listing all
projects that are either $100 million over budget or 5 years
behind schedule. So again, that is a priority I have for WRDA
2022.
Unlike in the private sector, there are no clear incentives
for Federal agencies to deliver projects on time or on budget.
General Spellmon, what kind of incentives do you think that
agencies might respond to? What do you think would be
effective?
General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am. I professionally disagree
that we don't have any incentives. There are firms out there
that build big box stores, and they do it every day, and they
get very good at it over and over. And there are firms out
there that build high rise apartments, and they do it every
day, every year, and they get very good at it.
I don't have two projects that are alike in the Civil Works
Program. Cedar Rapids is very different from Texas coastal; it
is very different from what we are dealing with down in Miami.
That is the beauty of why folks want to come to the Corps,
because they are working on national level infrastructure that
is all different. They are not building Wal-Marts.
That is why I think that the engineers and the talent that
we have in the Corps are recognized nationally throughout the
year on national level awards. Many of them are recognized,
ma'am, internationally for the work that they do. We work on,
again, projects that are of national significance, both here in
the United States and today in 110 countries around the world.
Senator Ernst. And yes, I would agree, I think we have a
phenomenal Corps that does a great job, tremendous engineers.
But what we do end up with are a lot of projects that end up
behind schedule, or over time. Cedar Rapids, of course,
additional dollars will be needed for that particular project.
So how can we do better with that?
General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am. You absolutely have our
commitment. We want to do better. So for Cedar Rapids, yes, we
have some cost growth. Ma'am, I will go back to the beginning
of the bipartisan Budget Act of 2018. This was not unexpected,
given the level of feasibility we had done on this particular
project and several others. We knew this cost growth was
coming. We just didn't know where.
So we have, in this case we have adequate contingency in
our non-Harvey or Memory Estates to adequately cover the cost
growth. Again, it was expected. We are planning for it. And we
are committed to finishing that project.
Senator Ernst. And we are extremely pleased that you have
been engaging with Cedar Rapids and so many of the other
projects as well. We hope that we can continue working on this.
Lock and Dam 25, let's try and get that going as well. But I
really appreciate your time and your attention to so many of
these projects. And hopefully, we can see many of them
completed in the near future.
Thank you. I yield.
Senator Carper. Senator Ernst, great to see you.
Now, patient, long awaited Senator Kelly.
Senator Boozman, you follow on the heels of Senator Kelly.
Then I understand we are going to have another vote in the
Senate later today. It is an interesting afternoon.
All right. Mark, you are up.
Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you to both Secretary Connor and General Spellmon for
joining us today.
As we begin drafting the 2022 WRDA bill, it is important to
me that we ensure the Army Corps of Engineers has the
authorities and the resources necessary to respond to the
drought that is facing Arizona and other western States. And as
the bill moves through the Senate, I am hopeful that we can
work together to ensure a whole government approach to respond
to this severe drought. It is not like anything we have seen in
our lifetime. It has been going on 22 years now. It is
significant.
Secretary Connor, as a former Commissioner of the Bureau of
Reclamation, I know you know the importance of these issues. So
I would like to start my questions with you. As you know, the
2020 WRDA bill authorized a new Section 595 Western
Infrastructure Program in Arizona which allows localities in
Arizona to receive funding for a variety of water and
wastewater projects.
What updates can you share about the Corp's work to stand
up and fund this program? How do you think a program like this
can help Arizona adapt to changing drought conditions?
Mr. Connor. Senator Kelly, thank you for the question. As
you and I discussed, I understand from that prior service
Arizona is at the epicenter of drought in the Colorado River
Basin and facing shortages to the supply that it has long
relied on. And I think the Environmental Infrastructure
Program, so we have already started funding. Pascua Yaqui
Tribe, I believe, got about a million dollars to move forward
with water supply pipeline. I think that is one aspect.
But in the dialogue that you and I have had, and with
others, I also understand there is about $70 million of
identified projects already. That is a good thing. We have a
whole of government approach. I know the Interior Department
has a lot of responsibilities and resources that it will be
applying to the Colorado River system.
But we can do our part in working with your communities. We
are developing innovative strategies under that Environmental
Infrastructure Program, managed aquifer recharge, re-use
activity. So we will look forward to trying to work with the
resources we have, and there are additional resources within
IIJA for environmental infrastructure. And I know it has been
part of the congressionally directed spending in past
appropriations bills. So will put that to good use whenever we
can to help address these resource issues.
I think even in our overall programs that we are
undertaking in Arizona, looking at how we integrate flood
protection and water supply, and looking for opportunities for
multi-benefits is going to be a key part of what we do moving
forward.
Senator Kelly. Do you think this will help us deal with the
drought situation we are facing?
Mr. Connor. I think it is an absolutely critical part of
the drought situation. There is always going to be some
reliance on the Colorado River. But having these local
strategies developed through the water supply and re-use and
wastewater projects that we are talking about, and flood
control, I think that is the future. It needs to be.
Senator Kelly. So broadening this out a little bit, do you
believe that the Corps' main authorities for flood risk
management, ecosystem restoration, and water supply are
sufficient to allow the Corps to play its part in responding to
drought conditions in the western United States?
Mr. Connor. I am going to have to look into that more
closely. I know we have authorities to engage in projects and
activities, whether they are long term enough, whether they
have the right parameters to ensure we are looking at this. I
think we have the discretion to do that.
But that will be an ongoing dialogue, and I will get with
you and your staff on that.
Senator Kelly. That is what I would like you to do. So if
there are additional authorities which the Corps could benefit
from to address water supply issues unique to the western
United States, if you could get us that information, and
General Spellmon, the same for you, that would be incredibly
helpful. And we will work with both of you to make sure that
within, if it makes sense, to get you the authorities that you
need.
Mr. Connor. Absolutely.
Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I yield back
the remainder of my time.
Senator Carper. All right, thanks. Thanks, Senator Kelly.
We have been rejoined by Senator Boozman.
Good to see you, my friend. You are recognized. Thanks for
joining us, twice.
Senator Boozman. Thank you, as always, Mr. Chairman. We
appreciate the hearing today. Thank you all for being here.
Also, General Spellmon, Secretary Connor, we appreciate
you, we appreciate the Administration for their support of the
President's 2022 budget request for the Three Rivers Navigation
Project. This is something that is essential to the river. If
it fails, and it is not a question of, it is when, then it
would severely make it such that essentially the Arkansas River
would shut down, which would be a real impact not only to the
State of Arkansas, but our entire economy.
So I do appreciate your having the foresight to address it
before it becomes a crisis.
I have a couple of questions. Congress authorized the
deepening of the MKARNS in 2003, and work on the 12 foot
deepening project was initiated in 2006, using funds
appropriated in 2005. However, the project has been inactive
since then. I understand preconstruction engineering design
funds, this is something that we have been working with Senator
Inhofe and the Arkansas delegation, entire Arkansas delegation,
Oklahoma delegation, but I understand preconstruction
engineering design funds will be required in fiscal year 2022
and 2023 for resumption of the deepening project.
What are the capability figures for preconstruction
engineering design for the Tulsa and Little Rock Districts for
fiscal year 2022 and 2023?
General Spellmon. I will take that, sir. We are going to
express capability for $10 million. There is some more design
work.
But I also want to share with you that we are thinking
proactively here, we are combining some already funded O&M work
for bank stabilization and rock placement that we need to do.
But that is also going to serve us well when we move forward
with the deepening.
Senator Boozman. Very good. The final question has to do
with the levee safety provision that was enacted as part of the
Water Resources Development Act of 2020. Section 131 of WRDA
directs the Corps to do three things with the individual levee
sponsors for systems in the Federal portfolio: Identify project
specific engineering and maintenance deficiencies, if any;
describe recommended remedies and the associated cost of these
remedies; consult closely with the non-Federal sponsor
throughout the process. We were part of leading this.
The problem is, we have a situation where we all agree, you
have a levee that really isn't very well maintained. But it is
a Catch-22 situation, in the sense that with your grading
structure, it is not recognized as that. You say, well, how can
I fix this? What can I do to get it up to the level? And there
is simply no answer.
So this is something that we have to get fixed. We have
excellent levees, not only in Arkansas, but throughout the
country, with this minimally acceptable rating, which is
simply, it is not good.
General Spellmon. Sir, I know we are going back and working
with the public on this. I know one of the pieces that we have
received a lot of feedback on is how we are defining risk. It
is a probability, and at times a consequence. The probability,
of course, is what you described, the state of the levee, the
structure of the levee, how sound is it. It is the consequence
if that were to fail.
We were using that as a metric to help the Secretary make
informed decisions with limited funds. You can't go out and fix
everything. So let's use this risk metric.
We are going to circle back on this, sir. We have more
communications to do with experts in your State and throughout
the country on how we can better communicate this and find a
way forward.
Senator Boozman. Yes, again, and we need to do that in a
timely fashion.
The other problem, we have had on the Mississippi or
various waterways, we have had these massive floods, these
centuries floods. That is a great stress test. For areas that
have held up with no problem at all, what better measurement is
there that they are capable of doing. See what I am saying?
The other side is that you all could be very proud, you
have designed a system that really has done well, and we can be
very proud of that. But we have some problems in administering
it.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you guys, very much.
Senator Carper. Senator Boozman, thanks as always for
joining us and for your thoughtful questioning.
I have a series of questions I would like to ask of
Secretary Connor and General Spellmon.
Mr. Connor, you have been in this new job for how long now?
Mr. Connor. Senator, I think it is 6 weeks now.
Senator Carper. Does it seem longer?
[Laughter.]
Mr. Connor. No, it is actually just one long day it seems
like, since that time.
Senator Carper. All right. Just take a minute and reflect
on your new responsibilities, what you expected, what you have
found, what you are encouraged by, maybe what you are
challenged by. Just take a few minutes on that. Then I have
some other prepared questions.
Mr. Connor. Senator, I appreciate the question.
I am taken aback about the level of respect across, on a
bipartisan basis, across regions of this country, the work that
the Army Corps of Engineers does, and the importance that it
has to many, many communities. There are obviously a lot of
issues all the time. But I think people have made it clear to
me, they take a step back, and they look at the totality of
what the Corps does in their communities, and they appreciate
that work. It has resonated with me how important this
organization is.
The expectations are daunting with respect to the need that
exists. You have identified a number of things that we should
be working on, particularly in a climate impacted world, and
the enormity of the task ahead of us is daunting to say the
least.
But I am confident, I feel very fortunate to be working
with the folks that I get to work with, and to have a role in
this organization and be charged with responsibilities that
Congress and members like you have for this organization. And I
think it is a great partnership, and I think we can do a lot of
great work.
But we have the weight of expectations, of execution, too.
So it is not just about thinking about it, talking about it,
having good intentions. It is about execution and moving
forward. And we are working on the whole range of that
portfolio.
Senator Carper. All right, good. I think you partly
answered this. When we passed the bipartisan infrastructure
bill this Committee provided the foundation for the water side,
drinking water, wastewater, flood issues. And on the surface
transportation side, there were roads, bridges issues as well.
The first part of getting that money out to States to put
it to work, it has been done. We don't come together on a lot
of big issues on a bipartisan basis these days. But we did pass
on a strong bipartisan basis the comprehensive bipartisan
infrastructure legislation.
The second challenge is to make sure the money gets out the
door, to be put to good use. I think that is beginning to be
done.
The second thing is we want to make sure that people in
this country know what is happening, and that we don't hide our
candle under a bushel, and we let them know what we are doing,
how that money is being put to good use to improve their
quality of life. Also, to frankly strengthen our economic
vibrancy of our country.
So thank you for those reflections. Again, we are delighted
that you are interested in this job. The President nominated
you, and we are grateful to our colleagues for confirming you.
This is a question for General Spellmon, and for you, Mr.
Connor. Gentlemen, as leaders of the Corps, you understand the
importance of the biannual Water Resources Development Act
legislation probably better than anybody around. As you know,
it not only authorizes projects and spending limits for the
Corps, but it sets new authorities and new priorities.
Now that we are starting development of the 2022 WRDA, I
would like to take this opportunity to hear from both of you
today about key changes, priorities, or authorities that the
Corps needs to be a better partner with non-Federal
stakeholders.
Mr. Connor, why don't you take that, lead off with that?
Then we will kick it over to General Spellmon.
Mr. Connor. Thank you, Senator Carper. Absolutely. Thinking
about how we can best use this WRDA 2022 process, I think
General Spellmon may have some specific ideas that we have
discussed. I want to talk a little bit more broadly. We are
going to be moving forward in the direction of WRDA 2020 and
doing agency specific procedures with respect to the principal
requirements and guidelines, which is going to be looking at
our projects and comprehensive benefits associated with those
projects, not just focused on national economic development.
What are regional benefits, what are local benefits, what are
environmental and social benefits, and how we integrate that
into our decisionmaking as part of that. We also want to ensure
we are looking at certain features of our projects, that we are
looking and expecting that we at least assess natural and
nature based features, and that we integrate them wherever we
can.
So it is going to be a pretty significant undertaking. We
are going to be moving forward with that process. And how we
take those ideas and those disclosures and that discussion and
turn it into practice is something that we should all be
looking at as to whether that requires new authorities or
modification authorities about how we assess and how we choose
and select projects.
So I think that is a heads up for the process that you
directed. And I think it is one that we should keep in touch
on, because it may yield the need for new authorities.
Second, as we have talked about here today, with respect to
environmental infrastructure, continuing authority programs,
communities across the country are making great use of those
programs. I naively thought a year ago that they were
underutilized programs that had a lot of capability. Now I know
they are oversubscribed programs with respect to the need. You
all obviously understood that in providing the resources in the
bipartisan infrastructure bill. So how we make use of those
authorities, thread them into the needs, and maybe expand their
use is something that we ought to think about together.
Last, I would note, how we do business and how we create
the efficiencies to make investments in the best use of our
resources is going to be an ongoing issue, particularly with
the size of the portfolio that General Spellmon mentioned in
his opening statements, the expectations not just for the Civil
Works Program. Our Civil Works folks support other activities.
So contracting efficiencies, something even like the plant
replacement improvement program, WRDA 2016 might have put a
little bit of process in there that maybe we want to discuss
about more flexibility to use at least some low dollar funds.
We understand the need for oversight about how we use funds
directly to address some of our plant maintenance and
replacement needs.
But maybe we can talk a little bit about some flexibility
with respect to that, and looking back to the changes made in
the 2016 WRDA. Those are three ideas that I will throw out. I
know General Spellmon has some more.
General Spellmon. Yes, sir, first of all a general
statement on your comment on partnership. I tell myself, I have
a consistency problem. I have districts that do partnering and
have partnerships, and they do this very well. And I have some
that don't do it very well at all. We are working every day,
this is one of our four priorities.
Senator Carper. Why do you suppose some do it well, and
some don't do it well? Can you generalize on that?
General Spellmon. Sir, it is younger staff, it is
inexperienced commanders coming to the Corps for the first
time. So we just published new guidelines. We have not
published doctrine on this since 1993. So we have new
guidelines out, and we are working on a partnering playbook
that we will publish this year.
So there is an education component to this. There is a
sharing of best practices component to this as well. We are
working on this very hard.
Sir, with respect to WRDA 2022, a couple things. First of
all, again, on partnership. I would like to see a
reauthorization of the Tribal Partnership Program. This came to
us, it was authorized in 2000; it sunsets in 2024. We have
completed a number of very good studies under this program. We
completed one very good construction project up in South
Dakota. I would like to see Congress reauthorize this program
so we can take these studies and move them into good
construction projects.
I would like to have the ability to assign warrant officers
and non-commissioned officers to my civil works projects. I
mentioned the massive workload. Today I have 800 military men
and women in the Army Corps of Engineers. The rest are very
talented civilians.
But I can't bring in all those captains and majors because
of other priorities for engineer officers elsewhere in the
Army. But I have non-commissioned officers with degrees in
project management. I have warrant officers with masters'
degrees in electrical engineering. I would love to be able to
assign them to civil works projects. It is the 1956 Flood
Control Act; it limits me to commissioned officers only.
Secretary Connor mentioned it. If we could have a discussion
and maybe gain some flexibility, it is Section 160 of WRDA
2016, that puts some governance on top of my plant replacement
improvement program. I have to publish a perspective each year
for those projects.
So these are the types of projects where out in the field I
store equipment, or I have a field office. They are generally
small projects, $7 million to $8 million. I have not had a
project approved or we have moved forward on since the
implementation of this provision.
I would just like to have the ability, or maybe Secretary
Connor have an approval level where I could go to him and get
approval for an $8 million project to replace a building that
burned down in Portland, for example, this past summer. I would
like to offer a conversation on that one, sir, and would
welcome any flexibility we could get.
Senator Carper. All right, thank you.
Aside from what you have just said, are there any other key
issues you would like to see addressed that come to mind in the
coming WRDA bill? You have touched on a number of them.
Anything else, anything that you would like to mention?
General Spellmon. Sir, I will mention one more. We
mentioned it earlier, the Hurricane, Storm, and Damage Risk
Reduction System in New Orleans. It is Section 3017 from WRDA,
going all the way back to WRDA 2018. That allows us to account
for subsidence and settlement in the levees and the flood walls
in and around New Orleans. Sir, that authority expires in 2024.
I think we would like to keep that system intact and keep it
whole and for Congress to reconsider reauthorization that
authority as well.
Senator Carper. OK, good.
Next question. Again, this would be for you, Mr. Connor. It
deals with collaboration, collaboration especially with
stakeholders. Stakeholders and sponsored collaboration with the
Army Corps of Engineers, as you know, is critical to solving
today's water resources challenges. It helps to limit the cost
of missed opportunities, promotes better planning, provides
better transparency, and results in more fiscally and I think
environmentally sound projects.
The Corps unfortunately has been limited in its outreach,
particularly in disadvantaged communities. In addition, the
Corps has still not completed implementation guidance on the
disadvantaged community provisions contained in WRDA 2020.
Question. First, actually, a two part question. First, when
do you think we can expect the disadvantaged community guidance
that Congress has required? And second, what more should the
Corps be doing to collaborate with non-Federal stakeholders,
including those in disadvantaged communities? Will you take on
those two questions, please?
Mr. Connor. Absolutely, Senator Carper. It is a great
question. I think it is going to be a priority here now, as I
committed to in my opening statement, moving forward with the
guidance and getting the right definitions of disadvantaged
communities, economically challenged communities. We need to
just make a decision, and that will set us in a position to
finish the guidance. Particularly because we have resources in
the IIJA, specifically the $30 million that was carved out to
move forward with the investigations and working on projects
with those marginalized, disenfranchised communities. And then
the CAP program, the $100 million that was set aside, so that
we can use those ranges of authorities to work with those
communities.
So we have resources now, that is always an issue. They are
there; we need to put in place the guidance. So that will be a
priority for me in moving forward on that in the very near
future.
With respect to being able to partner and work with these
communities, a couple of things I will just mention. I will go
back to looking at comprehensive benefits, which the Corps is
already doing, but then trying to institutionalize that with
our agency specific procedures to implement the principal
requirements and guidelines.
That is going to be the key. I think that has always been a
strict look at benefit costs. It has great value. We should be
assessing the economic costs and benefits of our projects. We
should be looking at the environmental values aspect, and we
should also integrate the societal values. And when you are
just top heavy on the economic benefit, those marginalized
communities suffer, and they don't compete as well. And we have
to re-do our criteria in a way that everybody is on board with,
so we can consider those other factors. We should try and
quantify costs and benefits as much as possible. But sometimes
it is a discussion, it is a narrative. We will do our best to
do both aspects, quantification as well as a discussion about
those benefits.
Last, programs like the Tribal Partnership that General
Spellmon mentioned. Those are specific programs, like the pilot
projects, that allow us to go work with communities. As I said
in my confirmation process, it is not about just undertaking
our projects in a way that doesn't harm those communities, but
we want to bring the Corps' resources, skills, capabilities, to
work with those communities and ensure that they get the
benefits of those activities that so many other communities
have had over the years.
Senator Carper. All right, thanks for that.
I have a third question, and I am going to address this,
Mr. Connor, to you and to General Spellmon. I think I will ask
General Spellmon to lead off, we will let you rest for a spell.
The subject is sea level rise, something near and dear to our
hearts in the First State. And frankly, a lot of places on the
East Coast and the Gulf, and even on the West Coast and Great
Lakes.
Gentlemen, as you know, as the Senator from the lowest
lying State, I have already referenced it once today. But sea
level rise and extreme weather are becoming more and more of a
cause for concern. Earlier this year, I asked General Graham if
the Corps accounts for climate change in project design. He
answered yes.
It seems, however, that the Corps only designs projects to
address damage from storm surge. And in a storm situation,
flooding can have more than one cause. The Corps should
comprehensively reduce the risk of all flood hazards when it
designs a project, including climate change, fuel, sea level
rise.
My question, starting with you, General Spellmon, and then
turning to Mr. Connor, given the Administration's priority in
addressing both the impacts and the root causes of climate
change, how will the Corps be working to remedy this shortfall
in its project design?
General Spellmon.
General Spellmon. Sir, I will start, and tell you that is
something that we are working very hard on. General Graham was
correct; we have been using sea level rise curves in our
feasibility studies and our projects for the past 12 years. And
frankly, we have a great climate change tool that DOD has
accepted for use on all of the installations.
I would like to see us, and we are working hard on this, I
will use the example, go back to the hurricane storm damage
risk reduction system in Louisiana. We used the sea level rise
curves and climate science in the construction of that project.
And the Corps has been credited with the performance of that
structure, along with our great partners in Louisiana, for its
performance during Hurricane Ida.
What I am saying here is that while concrete and steel and
the compacted dirt that protected the city was very, very
important, I am of the opinion that that system performed even
better because all of the natural and nature based features
that the State of Louisiana has been working on, the marsh
restoration projects, the barrier islands. I think that has got
to be an important component in our coastal work moving forward
for the reasons that you said, Senator.
Senator Carper. Thanks for that.
Mr. Connor, do you want to add to that, or take away?
Mr. Connor. I would simply add that in a lot of cases now,
we are doing these coastal resilience assessments and studies.
And I think those are great opportunities to integrate that
risk, to continue to evaluate the risk, and then look at the
broad array of solutions, that we can enhance the existing
protections that are already in place. I think that is going to
be critical.
I absolutely agree with General Spellmon; the integration
of natural and nature based features, the lessons we have
learned of how it works in places where it has been done and
how we can take that to other communities. And they are
demanding it. We have communities that are way ahead in their
views of what we should be doing with natural and nature based
infrastructure features.
So these studies present a great opportunity for us to do
the assessment. We have got the tools as General Spellmon
noted. It is going to be an ongoing process, even where we have
done resilience activity to date. We have to constantly assess
given new threats, and given new opportunities to address those
threats.
Senator Carper. All right, thank you.
I have one more question I want to ask of you, Mr. Connor.
Then I will give each of you a minute or two to close. You get
an opportunity to give an opening statement; I like to give the
opportunity for you to give a little closing statement as well,
something you want to reemphasize or something you think that
has been missed that you could comment on.
Mr. Connor, my last question would be with respect to the
Corps' budget. As you know, the Congress typically funds the
Corps' levels above the President's request. For example, I
think in 2021, the President's request was about just under $6
billion, I think it was $5.97 billion, to be precise. Congress
provided $7.8. So that is an increase, probably about a 25
percent increase above the President's request in fiscal year
2021.
While these numbers are large, the Corps has not made a
significant dent in the project backlog, which is estimated, as
I mentioned earlier, to be nearly over $100 billion, maybe
closer to $110 billion. Between the Infrastructure Investment
and Jobs Act, also known as the bipartisan infrastructure bill,
annual appropriations added to that additional supplemental
dollars that the Corps is expected to have somewhere between
$80 billion and $100 billion to invest over the next 5 years.
With such a large backlog, how will the Corps balance work
on backlogged projects while helping communities that have
newly emerging needs?
Mr. Connor. It is a complex set of issues that we need to
deal with, addressing that backlog and moving forward with the
new protections and the new demands that exist. As you note, we
do have a significant backlog. I think the figure I saw for
WRDA 2020 was something in the neighborhood of another $15
billion. That goes to the ongoing need and maybe even enhanced
need going forward.
So I think we have to look at those projects. There is a
process to continue to look at whether some projects should
move forward, particularly in the way they were originally
envisioned. We want to make sure we use this influx of funds to
complete projects, get them off the books, finish the work that
we have started. And we want to prioritize the use of projects
in the future.
We are always going to look at risk from a safety
standpoint. We are always going to look at economic
environmental benefits. There are other needs out there, and
other demands.
Also, with respect to the Administration, we are looking at
resilience, we are looking at environmental justice, and we are
looking at supply chain as priorities that we need to address.
So it is going to be a balance of trying to finish projects,
trying to really assess future risks and moving forward with
those priorities.
I do believe that we can make a dent with the resources we
have. Congress has entrusted us with a lot of resources. I
think getting back to that execution piece of this, this is
going to be key, so that you can entrust us with more resources
moving forward to address these concerns. Because we have a lot
of work to do, and some of it we don't even know about yet,
given the new challenges that we are facing.
Senator Carper. Ok. Thanks for that reply.
My last thing, this is really giving each of you a minute
or two, maybe three, to add anything else that you think you
would like to reemphasize, or something that wasn't raised that
you would like to leave on the table.
Mr. Connor, why don't you go first, then we will go to
General Spellmon.
Mr. Connor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't have much more
to add. I am thinking about the points I would like to make. I
think from my standpoint, moving on from WRDA 2020, there is a
lot of to-dos still out there. Even when we do guidance, even
when we finish rulemakings, even when we get those items done,
then there is the implementation phase from a policy
perspective. That is going to give rise to a lot more projects
and activities.
So we were a little shy here with respect to new
authorities because I think you have given us lots of tools and
authorities. We want to continue some of those authorities in
more long term ways such as mentioned with the Tribal
Partnership Program. We know that that program is really going
to take off, that the outreach that has been done by the Corps,
that we intend to do in the future, not only with Tribes but
with other communities that haven't long been served by the
Corps. Those programs are going to take off.
So I am not suggesting a light touch at all with WRDA 2020.
There are projects, there are proposals that are identified in
our 7001 report that are going to be coming to you that you
already have with the 2021 report. But this is an ongoing
process, and a backlog will continue to build. But we want to
make effective use of the resources we have and demonstrate
that we can execute on the expectations.
Senator Carper. All right, thank you.
General Spellmon, any final thoughts you want to share?
General Spellmon. Senator Carper, first of all, thanks for
your time today, and that of all the Committee members.
As Secretary Connor said, this is an historic level of
investment for the Army Corps of Engineers. We certainly
appreciate the trust that Congress and the Administration has
placed in us. But now we have to deliver. We absolutely have to
deliver on this historic level of investment.
You have my commitment; we have every tool on the table to
get these projects on the ground. So whether it is new
contracting strategies, new acquisition strategies,
delegations, workload sharing, which we experienced in Delaware
not too long ago, non-Federal sponsor led work under the 1043
authority, or any other tool, we are an open book. We want to
be completely transparent with you and the Committee to help us
get this work in the ground.
Senator Carper. Good. Well, thank you for doing double duty
today, with the House of Representatives infrastructure, the
oversight committee there, and then for joining us here this
afternoon.
I spent a lot of years of my life in the Navy. My dad was a
chief petty officer for, gosh, over 25, close to 30 years all
in. I always felt that leadership is the single most important
ingredient in the success of any organization I have been a
part of.
I am encouraged by the leadership we have still in the
military, and with respect to the Army Corps of Engineers and
your responsibilities. So thank you both for your willingness
to sign up to do this work. We look forward to working with
you.
The time I spent in the Navy, I was always impressed with,
some of the finest officers I ever served with were people who
had been prior enlisted, we called them [indiscernible],
mustangs. Some of the finest people I served with were folks
who were non-commissioned officers, including chief petty
officers like my dad and others. I think you asked for us to
look at some of the language to see if we might give folks who
enjoy those ranks some opportunities to make some greater
contributions. We will take a close look at that.
This is not the end of the conversation; it is the
beginning of the conversation. We look forward to continuing
that conversation, making sure that all this money, all these
resources that have been appropriated find a good place to go,
consistent with the guidance we have provided, and that we can
be proud of that, the implementation that lies ahead.
With that, we have a little bit of housekeeping, very
little bit of housekeeping to do in order to close our hearing.
Senators will be allowed to submit questions for the record
through close of business on Wednesday, January 26th. And we
will compile those questions and send them to both of you. We
ask that you reply to them by Thursday, January 27th. Not
really. We are going to ask you to respond, we are going to get
the question back from our Committee by Wednesday, January
26th, and we are going to give you all the way until February,
Wednesday, February 9th, in order to reply. We ask that you try
to be timely in those responses.
This is important stuff, especially for those of us on the
coasts of our country. Frankly, Senator Ernst was here talking
about the needs that they have in Iowa. We have heard from
folks in Michigan, Alaska, who have a huge interest in the work
you do. We are anxious to be your partners. Thank you again for
your leadership and for your testimony today.
With that, this hearing is adjourned. Thanks very much.
[Whereupon, at 5:03 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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