[Senate Hearing 117-494]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                                                        S. Hrg. 117-494

  WATER RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT ACT OVERSIGHT: USACE IMPLEMENTATION OF 
         WATER INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS, PROGRAMS AND PRIORITIES

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                            JANUARY 12, 2022

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works





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                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

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               COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                  THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West 
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont                 Virginia, 
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island         Ranking Member
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts      KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois            CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
ALEX PADILLA, California             ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
                                     DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
                                     JONI ERNST, Iowa
                                     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina

             Mary Frances Repko, Democratic Staff Director
               Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director









                            C O N T E N T S

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                                                                   Page

                            JANUARY 12, 2022
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware..     1
Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West 
  Virginia.......................................................     3

                               WITNESSES

Connor, Hon. Michael, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Civil 
  Works..........................................................     5
    Prepared statement...........................................     7
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Carper...........................................    14
        Senator Whitehouse.......................................    15
    Response to an additional question from Senator Merkley......    17
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Kelly............................................    17
        Senator Padilla..........................................    21
    Response to an additional question from:
        Senator Capito...........................................    24
        Senator Cramer...........................................    24
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Wicker...........................................    24
        Senator Sullivan.........................................    26
Spellmon, Lieutenant General Scott, Chief of Engineers and 
  Commanding General, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers...............    28
    Prepared statement...........................................    30
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Carper...........................................    35
        Senator Whitehouse.......................................    36
        Senator Kelly............................................    36
        Senator Cramer...........................................    39
        Senator Wicker...........................................    39
        Senator Sullivan.........................................    43




 
  WATER RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT ACT OVERSIGHT: USACE IMPLEMENTATION OF 
         WATER INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS, PROGRAMS AND PRIORITIES

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 12, 2022

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee, met, pursuant to notice, at 3:03 p.m. in 
room 106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper 
(Chairman of the Committee) presiding.
    Present: Senators Carper, Capito, Cardin, Whitehouse, 
Markey, Stabenow, Kelly, Inhofe, Cramer, Boozman, Sullivan, and 
Ernst.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER, 
            U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

    Senator Carper. I am pleased to call this hearing to order.
    Today, we are going to continue our work on this year's 
Water Resources Development Act, affectionately known as WRDA. 
We will be hearing from our distinguished witnesses from the 
Army Corps of Engineers, Assistant Secretary Connor, welcome, 
and to also welcome General Spellmon.
    We thank both of you for joining us.
    I think just earlier today, I think it was earlier today, 
that each of you appeared before the House Committee on 
Transportation and Infrastructure. Is that correct? It is like 
a day, I am tempted to say day and night double header like 
they have in baseball, but it is a morning and afternoon double 
header. We are grateful that you are here. It is a big day for 
WRDA on Capitol Hill.
    Let me start by taking a moment to note our Committee's 
successful track record on bipartisan water legislation. I am 
proud of the work by all of our colleagues and our staff 
members. I am grateful for the partnership that I enjoy with 
Ranking Member Senator Capito on these issues and on so many 
others. This has made it possible for us to pass a Clean 
Drinking and Wastewater bill as part of the historic bipartisan 
infrastructure law last year and to pass and then enact 
multiple bipartisan water resources development bills in the 
last several years.
    Those of us on this Committee know that the process of 
working on WRDA every 2 years presents us with an opportunity 
to assess the Army Corps of Engineers' operations, to see how 
we can better support and equip this vital infrastructure 
agency with the tools it needs to succeed. The Corps has an 
extraordinarily important and difficult mission, as we know, 
with project needs that far outweigh the available resources 
allocated to it.
    Indeed, due to years of underfunding, the backlog of 
authorized but not completed projects has grown to over $100 
billion. That is more than 15 times the agency's annual 
operating budget, 15 times.
    Demand for projects so outstrips the supply of resources 
that the Corps is placed in an untenable position. Moreover, 
its decisionmaking process grows far more difficult as the 
agency struggles to address both backlogged projects and the 
new needs of many communities grappling with the impacts of 
climate change, such as sea level rise and extreme weather.
    Fortunately, with the passage of the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act and several supplemental funding bills, 
along with what we expect will be included in the annual 
appropriations measures, the Corps will be looking at a total 
of somewhere between $80 billion to $100 billion in available 
annual funding over the next 5 years. It doesn't wipe out the 
backlog, but it is a great step in the right direction.
    With the significant influx of funding, we now have an 
opportunity to take the time to review the Corps' statutory 
authorities and make sure the agency spends these resources 
wisely, fairly, and in the areas of greatest need. Many 
smaller, disadvantaged communities, including those in rural 
and tribal areas, have great infrastructure needs. Yet they are 
typically the last to receive assistance due in large part to 
outdated budgeting practices.
    That is why we included several provisions in the 2020 WRDA 
bill directing the Corps to increase its work with 
disadvantaged communities. We are interested in hearing from 
our witnesses today about how this work is going and how our 
Committee can work with the Corps to better assist these 
vulnerable communities.
    It is also imperative that we discuss how the Corps' work 
must adapt to the increasingly powerful storms, more 
devastating floods, encroaching sea levels, and the seemingly 
endless droughts we continue to witness across our country. To 
better respond to these worsening impacts of climate change, 
the Corps needs to update its economic assessments and 
engineering standards.
    Assistant Secretary Connor, let me again congratulate you 
on your confirmation. Assistant Secretary Connor, I recently 
wrote to you about the need to update engineering standards in 
response to directives from recent WRDA bills. This includes 
the implementation of natural and nature based project planning 
requirements.
    As my colleagues frequently hear me say, Delaware is the 
lowest lying State in our Nation. Our State is sinking, and the 
seas around us are rising. Other States are seeing something 
similar to that, particularly along our coasts. We are acutely 
aware of the need to develop solutions that not only work today 
but also will protect us well into the future.
    Incorporating natural infrastructure into resilience 
efforts in Delaware and other States has been and continues to 
be a critical element of long term solutions. The Corps needs 
to erase and use natural infrastructure in combination with 
engineered solutions to mitigate the impacts of climate change. 
That means ensuring local project sponsors are aware that 
natural infrastructure is an available option in project 
demand.
    Moreover, the Federal Government needs to plan for the 
climate reality that we face. And we know that failing to do so 
comes at a steep cost. The seven most severe storms since 2000 
cost our country a total of $1.3 trillion. Let me say that 
again. The seven most severe storms since the year 2000 cost 
our country a total of over $1.3 trillion, as homes and cars 
were destroyed, peoples' jobs and lives were uprooted, and 
traveling and tourism came to a halt--$1.3 trillion.
    Throughout the past 30 years, much of the Corps' funding 
has been provided in response to disasters, not in preparation 
for them. Our country must become more proactive, addressing 
climate change before the storms arrive and preventing these 
massive losses in the first place.
    So let's begin our work on WRDA this year with equity in 
climate in mind, along with traditional issues such as 
navigation and flood control. Let's keep them at the top of our 
minds. My hope is that today's hearing will provide us with 
important insights into these challenges.
    General Spellmon, Assistant Secretary Connor, we look 
forward to hearing your insights that will better inform our 
work on this next authorization bill. Welcome.
    Senator Capito, I am delighted to recognize you for any 
comments you would like to make.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, 
          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

    Senator Capito. Thank you, Chairman Carper.
    Welcome to our witnesses, Assistant Secretary Connor and 
General Spellmon.
    Last year, this Committee took the lead in the passage of 
the historic bipartisan infrastructure legislation, the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. I am pleased to begin 
2022 with a discussion of how we can build upon that success by 
advancing the Water Resources Development Act, which we call 
WRDA, and get this legislation to enactment.
    Since 2014, the Committee has kept to its biennial WRDA 
schedule authorizing water resource projects and setting 
national policies for the Civil Works Program of the U.S. Corps 
of Engineers every 2 years. I look forward to continuing this 
track record.
    The Corps' main mission are in the areas of navigation, 
flood risk management, ecosystem restorations, safeguard our 
communities, and support economic growth. This fact was 
underscored just a few months ago when portions of Louisiana 
were protected from devastation thanks to the Corps projects 
constructed in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.
    Moreover, recent supply chain disruptions and accompanying 
inflation have highlighted the continued need for investments 
in our Nation's ports and waterways which facilitate the 
movement of billions of tons of goods and commodities in the 
United States. These projects and activities are authorized and 
directed by Congress through our WRDA legislation.
    The most recent iteration of WRDA in 2020 included several 
project specific authorizations, modifications, as well as 
programmatic reforms. It also provided the Corps with a number 
of new authorities. The Committee continues to oversee the 
implementation of provisions from prior WRDA legislation.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on the status 
of the implementation of WRDA 2020 as well as other outstanding 
policy changes. I also expect there will be project specific 
questions from our members. All this will inform the 
Committee's work on future WRDA legislation which has begun in 
earnest.
    I thank all of my Senate colleagues and their staff because 
they have submitted their proposals for the Committee's 
consideration. As I have previously said, it is important that 
any future WRDA legislation supports the timely and efficient 
delivery of water resource projects in communities that need 
them while continuing to meet our national priorities.
    We must also ensure that communities have access to the 
requisite technical expertise to address their water resources 
challenges. The opacity of the Corps' process and programs is a 
recurring issue. We must not be overly proscriptive, however. 
Our Nation's water resources are diverse, and communities know 
more about their needs than the policymakers here in 
Washington, DC. We must preserve the role of our non-Federal 
sponsors in project delivery processes.
    We must also take care not to divert the Corps' focus away 
from its primary mission areas. That said, the Corps ought to 
work with Congress and vice versa to make sure we are spurring 
innovation. And now is the time to deliver those projects 
better or faster. And as the General and I were speaking 
earlier in the lead up to this that with the enormous infusion 
of funds, delivery of this legislation comes as the Corps 
manages the $17 billion in supplement appropriations provided 
to it by the IIJA which includes funding for WRDA 2020 
authorities. That is more than double the annual appropriations 
and represents a real opportunity to reduce the backlog of some 
Corps projects.
    Prompt responses to oversight requests from the Committee 
regarding this funding are critical. I look forward to hearing 
from our witnesses about the Corps' next step to implement the 
legislation.
    In that vein, I would like to thank the staff at Corps 
headquarters and the Assistant Secretary's office for their 
attention to Committee requests for information regarding prior 
WRDA legislation, and in advance for their continued assistance 
as we move forward.
    Let me reiterate my gratitude to our witnesses for being 
here today. As I have said in prior hearings, the mission of 
the Corps are more critical than ever. The testimony we will 
hear today will inform the Committee as it moves into its 
integral role in improving our Nation's infrastructure.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back my time.
    Senator Carper. Senator Capito, thank you very much.
    Now it is our witnesses' turn to share their thoughts with 
us today and respond to our questions. We will begin with 
Assistant Secretary Connor.
    Mr. Connor, you are recognized for your statement. Again, 
congratulations on your confirmation. We look forward to 
working with you today and beyond.
    Thank you.

               STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL CONNOR, 
        ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE ARMY FOR CIVIL WORKS

    Mr. Connor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Capito, 
members of the Committee. I appreciate the opportunity to be 
here with my partner, General Spellmon, to testify regarding 
WRDA 2022.
    I am Mike Connor, as has been noted, serving as Assistant 
Secretary of the Army for Civil Works, a position I have been 
in since November 29th of last year. Thank you again to this 
Committee for moving my nomination forward. I have submitted my 
written testimony and will summarize a few highlights.
    The U.S. Army Civil Works Program is the largest water 
resources program in the Nation. It serves three primary 
missions: Flood and storm damage reduction, commercial 
navigation, and aquatic ecosystem restoration. It also 
addresses a host of other water resources and infrastructure 
needs as directed by Congress.
    The Corps of Engineers have contributed significantly 
toward the Nation's well being, supporting the economy with its 
infrastructure and protecting and improving the lives of 
Americans with actions to address flood risk, environmental 
protection needs, even drought. Today, the Army Corps is 
committed to the national effort to work as partners with 
communities to improve their resilience to extreme weather 
events and other challenges related to a changing climate.
    As the President has made clear, this Administration is 
focused on increasing infrastructure and ecosystem resilience 
and decreasing climate risk for communities based on the best 
available science; promoting environmental justice in 
disadvantaged, underserved, and rural communities; and creating 
good paying jobs.
    The Army Civil Works Program will continue to work within 
its own authorities to tackle the climate crisis at home. Of 
course, we participate in the whole of government effort, 
including the Interagency Water Subcabinet and the Coastal 
Resilience Interagency Working Group.
    WRDA 2022 is where we can continue to ensure the 
authorities necessary to implement the Administration's 
priorities. The President has set a goal that 40 percent of the 
overall benefits of Federal investments flow to disadvantaged 
communities, the Justice40 Initiative. I am committed to 
working with Lieutenant General Spellmon to seek opportunities 
to secure environmental justice and spur economic opportunity 
for disadvantaged communities that disproportionately 
experience the adverse effects of climate change.
    I should also make clear the Army's role in supporting a 
broad range of infrastructure and landscapes. The Army works 
with our Nation's coastal ports to maintain their channels; 
operates and maintains the inland waterways of commerce; 
supports State, tribal, and local flood risk management 
activities; restores significant aquatic ecosystems; and 
operates and maintains significant multipurpose dams and 
reservoirs that exist behind those dams.
    It is a great story. But much of the water resources 
infrastructure that the Army Corps owns and operates was 
constructed over 75 years ago and will require significant 
investments to maintain. As noted here, there have been 
significant investments, and we appreciate Congress' support.
    As the Army works on policy and administrative changes to 
improve infrastructure development and regulatory 
responsiveness, my staff and I are looking at authorities, 
policy, regulations, and procedures to identify opportunities 
for increased efficiency and effectiveness.
    This is particularly necessary given the substantial 
resources provided to the Corps this past year and the 
importance Congress ascribes to our programs. We want to ensure 
that Army Civil Works is using its significant capabilities in 
an equitable manner, that it incorporates natural and nature 
based infrastructure solutions into resiliency efforts, that it 
reduces redundancy, and that it delegates authority for 
decisionmaking to the appropriate level. I am committed to 
working closely with the Chief of Engineers and his commanding 
officers to position the Civil Works Program for continued 
success.
    With respect to specific matters of interest to the 
Committee, we are working with OMB to finalize a proposed rule 
to implement WIFIA as provided for in the 2020 Energy and Water 
Appropriations Act. This proposed rule would implement a new 
Federal credit program to support investment in non-Federal dam 
safety projects through credit assistance to maintain, upgrade, 
and repair non-Federal dams.
    This new Federal credit program will provide another way 
for non-Federal dam owners and managers to enhance the safety 
of their dams while also addressing water supply, energy, and 
environmental needs in a changing climate.
    The Army has completed 18 WRDA 2020 implementation guidance 
documents and made substantial progress on the remaining 
guidance. Certain provisions may require rulemaking. And you 
have my commitment that WRDA 2020 implementation will be a 
priority and that we will complete the remaining implementation 
guidance documents and rulemakings.
    The Army is also making progress on key regulatory issues. 
Together, we are working closely with the EPA to develop a 
durable definition of Waters of the United States informed by 
science, experience, and expertise to protect all interests 
dependent on clean water.
    The Army has also lifted the temporary pause on finalizing 
Section 404 permits in November 2021 and is working to resolve 
the vast majority of the outstanding jurisdictional 
determinations.
    The Army is also moving forward to coordinate with 
certifying authorities on water quality certifications that are 
potentially impacted by the recent vacatur of the 2020 Clean 
Water Section 401 rule.
    With that, I look forward to answering any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Connor follows:]


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    Senator Carper. Mr. Connor, thanks so much.
    General Spellmon, you are on. Welcome. Thanks.

   STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT GENERAL SCOTT SPELLMON, CHIEF OF 
 ENGINEERS AND COMMANDING GENERAL, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS

    General Spellmon. Chairman Carper, Ranking Member Capito, 
and distinguished members of the Committee, good afternoon. I 
am honored to testify before you today with Mr. Connor. Thank 
you for the opportunity to discuss our execution of and your 
oversight of the Corps' Civil Works Program.
    I look forward to discussing the status of implementation 
of recent Water Resources Development Acts as well as questions 
the Committee may have regarding anticipated legislation for 
2022. Most importantly, I look forward to continuing to work 
with the Committee, with Congress, and the Administration to 
address the Nation's water resources infrastructure needs.
    The infrastructure authorized by the Water Resources 
Development Acts and implemented by Corps is critical for the 
Nation's economic growth and for our national security. 
Ultimately, they benefit all American citizens.
    We greatly appreciate the Committee's continuing commitment 
to enacting WRDAs on a 2 year cycle. This predictability has 
enabled critical water resources projects to be authorized for 
study and construction. This succession has also provided 
regular updates to our authorities, modernizing our 
methodologies, and enhancing flexibility in the policies we 
utilize to execute our missions.
    We maintain a dedicated commitment to our partners and 
value the engagement we have held with stakeholders to gain 
their input in shaping guidance for implementation of these 
authorities.
    While the focus of this hearing may be on the prospective 
legislation being considered by the Committee, it is important 
for me to acknowledge the recent, significant growth in the 
Corps' Civil Works Program that we have experienced over the 
past several years. The challenge that we have for us in the 
Corps is that we are structured, we are organized, we are 
manned for what has historically been a $20 billion to $22 
billion annual program. It is civil works, it is the work we do 
for the VA, certainly the work we do for the Army and the Air 
Force and our combatant commanders in 110 countries around the 
globe today.
    Our current program is not $20 billion to $22 billion. It 
is $84 billion, and it is growing. Our Civil Works Program has 
seen the greatest growth in these past 5 years going from a $7 
billion annual budget to more than a $48 billion annual budget. 
That is when you include all of the supplemental appropriations 
Congress has given us.
    This money provides the Corps with a once in a generation 
window of opportunity to deliver water resources infrastructure 
programs and projects that will positively impact the lives of 
communities across this great Nation. It is an opportunity we 
are taking advantage of to transform our organization and our 
decisionmaking processes to safely finish quality projects on 
time and within budget.
    We are taking major steps to proactively identify risks, to 
execute our mandates and developing measures to reduce, 
resolve, or eliminate those risks, measures such as 
accelerating recruitment through direct hiring authorities and 
transforming our workplace to attract and retain the top talent 
that will help us in fortifying our technical expertise to 
effectively develop and implement infrastructure projects.
    The Corps is also combining traditional and alternative 
delivery concepts that allow us to develop additional 
contracting tools and enhance our partnership efforts. By 
evolving our programs, our planning, and our operations, we are 
able to better address impacts from important drivers like 
global climate change.
    Additionally, the Corps continues to provide meaningful 
engagement opportunities for overburdened and underserved 
communities and Native American Tribes to encourage and enable 
participation in decisions that impact their communities.
    The Corps does not accomplish anything by itself. We use 
our engineering expertise to address some of the most pressing 
water resource challenges we face as a Nation today. My top 
priorities include identifying the highest priority investments 
and that we safely deliver quality projects on time and within 
budget.
    I strongly feel that to achieve this vision, we must 
execute a comprehensive research and development strategy to 
meet the challenges of the 21st century. We will accomplish 
this strategy with our partners in government, industry, 
academia, both nationally here in the United States and 
internationally. From climate change to war fighting, from 
overextended infrastructure to cyber security, there is no 
shortage of challenges that will require bold new research and 
development to solve.
    Thank you again, Chairman Carper, Ranking Member Capito, 
and members of the Committee. I look forward to answering any 
questions you may have.
    [The prepared statement of General Spellmon follows:]

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    Senator Carper. General Spellmon, thank you. Thanks for 
joining us, and thanks for your service over how many years of 
service now?
    General Spellmon. Thirty-five, sir.
    Senator Carper. But who is counting? You started at what, 
about 12?
    [Laughter.]
    General Spellmon. Sir, I came on active duty in 1986.
    Senator Carper. All right. I think we are going to start 
voting here in a very short while in the Senate. Let me just 
ask our staff, would somebody just check and make sure they are 
going to kick it off at 3:30? OK, good.
    What I might do, Senator Capito, is just head over there 
right now. I know you have another engagement. I will vote and 
come back, if you can just keep things moving. Then you can 
vote and take care of that other engagement.
    Senator Capito. OK.
    Senator Carper. With that, why don't you lead us off in 
questions.
    Senator Capito. Do you want to question first?
    Senator Carper. No. I will go vote. I am going to go so I 
will be there when they start voting.
    Senator Capito. If you are asking me to go first, I am 
going to yield to Chairman Inhofe to let him have my spot.
    Senator Carper. The order, I might mention the order. 
Senator Capito, Senator Cardin, Senator Inhofe, Senator 
Whitehouse, Senator Boozman, Senator Stabenow. Thank you all. I 
will be back shortly.
    Senator Inhofe. First, let me thank Senator Capito for 
allowing this to take place in this order.
    I have had occasion to spend some time with both General 
Spellmon and Michael Connor. And we are in agreement on so many 
different things, and it is so important for my State of 
Oklahoma.
    I have to share with the rest of the people here how 
serious of a flood we had in 2019. The only ammunition that we 
had at that time was the Tulsa levee and the West Tulsa levee 
system. This actually was at a time, when it was put together, 
actually when I was 4 years old. It far exceeded its service 
life.
    So we had the levee system. And when our flood came in 
2019, more people, professionals, believed that we were going 
to be breaking the levee and having a really disastrous 
situation. And it did perform, and I can remember actually 
personally being down there when the water was coming through. 
Nobody thought it was going to be able to hold.
    We put in emergency things right after that. Now we are in 
a situation which certainly Secretary Connor is familiar with, 
assuming that it is serious. I know you are aware of the 
seriousness of this thing.
    So we have this levee system, and we are hoping and doing 
everything we can to ensure that we are going to be able to 
hold this out in the event of another one. It was a close call, 
a very close call.
    The other thing that wanted to make sure I had time to 
mention is our MKARNS. People don't realize that we are 
navigable in Oklahoma. We are the most inland navigable system 
in the country. And it is something that people don't realize. 
We have more miles of freshwater shoreline than any of the 
other 50 States.
    Now, there is a reason for that. It is because ours are all 
manmade lakes. And manmade lakes, they give you a lot of 
shoreline because they have a dam down here and then go across. 
So people are not aware, but that is something that is serious.
    The other thing that is of concern is that we are navigable 
in terms of having the capability to take care of the things 
that we need. For example, our navigation way coming to the 
State of Oklahoma is about 98 percent 12 foot channel. But that 
means that we have 2 percent that is not a 12 foot channel. It 
is a 9 foot channel. That is one of the things that has been on 
our list for a long period of time. It has been authorized, and 
I just want to make sure that I take this opportunity, Mr. 
Connor, of reminding you of what you and I talked about before, 
and the seriousness of what we are facing now with these two 
projects, one being of course the levee system, that it would 
hold up for not another 100 years, but to start working 
immediately with top priority. I believe I asked that along 
with the deepening of the MKARNS.
    Would you share your thoughts on those two projects?
    Mr. Connor. Senator Inhofe, thank you for the conversations 
regarding these projects and the ongoing dialogue. I think they 
represent two very high priority aspects of the overall Corps 
of Engineers program, that is obviously with respect to the 
levees, our need to maintain, rehabilitate, and do any new 
construction with an eye toward resilience. Particularly given 
the 2019 flooding situation, we know what extreme events can 
bring. And so that brings a focus to the need to move forward 
with your project in West Tulsa.
    Then the inland waterways issue, the 12 foot navigation 
channel, I think during my confirmation process, I mentioned 
that I had looked up the [inaudible] background in preparation 
for a talk with you and I saw the Port of Tulsa. I really was a 
little taken aback at the Port of Tulsa.
    But my first trip out of the box here was on the 
Mississippi River and the Illinois River, seeing the dam and 
lock system, the navigable, talking to the folks involved in 
our navigable waterways, inland waterways, and moving commerce 
on that system and the need for reliability, the benefits that 
exist with efficient delivery and our need to maintain and 
improve that system so that it continues to be an important 
part of our commerce system. That is part and parcel, that is 
one of our priorities, the supply chain, shoring up the supply 
chain. And so from that standpoint, I am with you on the 
importance of those projects, sir.
    Senator Inhofe. I appreciate that very much.
    The last thing I would mention is on our lakes development, 
It seems like, I never knew why it was this way, but it always 
seemed they were always concerned with navigation and flood 
control but not recreation. We have so many great opportunities 
for recreation. And this is something we have started looking 
at now for the first time.
    I actually was Chairman I guess of this Committee during 
the 2007 WRDA legislation. We made some advancements at that 
time, and again in 2020. But I would like to say that we have 
all changed on our priorities on the lake system that we have. 
And we recognize recreation is a very important opportunity for 
us in our State of Oklahoma. I would hope you would agree that 
is an area we need to concentrate on for everyone's benefit.
    Mr. Connor. Absolutely, Senator. I have a long history at 
the Interior Department. I was delighted to hear, when I came 
over in this position, to find out that we have more 
campgrounds within the Army Corps of Engineers system than the 
National Park Service.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Connor. So I understand the importance of that. 
Particularly during the pandemic, we have seen how people have 
gone to recreate at Federal facilities outdoors. It is an 
incredibly important part of the portfolio because it serves 
those communities in which we exist.
    Senator Inhofe. I appreciate that.
    Thank you, Senator Capito.
    Senator Capito [presiding]. Senator Cardin.
    Senator Cardin. Thank you, Madam Chair. Let me thank both 
of our witnesses for their work.
    Secretary Connor, as you can imagine, for a Maryland 
Senator, the health of the Port of Baltimore is critically 
important. Maintenance dredging is absolutely essential.
    When I first started in the House of Representatives many 
years ago, probably the greatest challenge was to find 
locations where we could put dredged material. But since we 
started Poplar Island, which became an environmental 
restoration as well as a location for dredged materials, we 
have overcome that controversy.
    I appreciate our conversation that we had last year about 
Mid-Bay which is the next scheduled location for environmental 
restoration, beneficial use of dredged materials and to make 
sure that we can maintain our channels and have a location for 
the dredged material.
    You said very nice things about it back then. I just wanted 
to give you an opportunity to say, now that we are ready to 
start actual construction, that this is a top priority of our 
regional delegation. And I would hope we will receive your full 
support.
    Mr. Connor. Senator Cardin, I am not ready to make any 
announcements about any work plans that may be coming out in 
the near future. But absolutely, my time spent here in this 
position has only doubled down on my views of the benefits of 
the program that specifically you are mentioning that is 
happening in the Chesapeake Bay, the beneficial use of that 
dredged material. The need to do more of that is something that 
we need to work through. We are doing it in your area. We need 
to take that knowledge and that partnership that we have and do 
that more in other places. And we need to work through those 
cost issues.
    I think with the pilot projects that are moving forward, 
the 10 we have selected are only partially funded at this point 
in time. We can demonstrate that. But I am very impressed with 
the work that has been done in Maryland in the Chesapeake Bay. 
And it is something we absolutely want to continue, absolutely, 
sir.
    Senator Cardin. Thank you very much for that. We are on 
schedule in this appropriations cycle. If the work of the 
committees ends up in an omnibus appropriations bill, there 
will be additional support there for Mid-Bay to start 
construction.
    So I recognize your answer, and I thank you very much for 
your support for beneficial use of dredged materials where we 
are able to accomplish what we need to for dredging sites as 
well as in environmental progress.
    General Spellmon, I want to talk a little bit about Section 
510 that was in the last WRDA Act. We substantially increased 
the authorization of Section 510 funding. It is a source that 
we looked upon as one of the most encouraging areas for 
restoration of the Chesapeake Bay and a lot of the work done in 
the Chesapeake Bay Partnership Program.
    The challenge is we have to get it funded now that it is 
authorized to get into your work plan. Can you share with us 
how we can work together to try to make sure that process moves 
forward, consistent with the intent of Congress in the last 
WRDA bill?
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir. I just want to start out by 
saying we appreciate the support of Congress last year in the 
$50,000 in 2021 of reprogramming. We used that to complete the 
feasibility phase for Plum Creek and North City Park, Maryland, 
projects. We would like to get that out of the work plan into a 
more predictable funding stream. As you just said, these are 
incredibly important projects for the ecosystem and for the 
Bay. We just think there are great opportunities out there. We 
will continue to make our best technical recommendations to 
advance these types of projects.
    Senator Cardin. Great. Let's work together because I know 
sometimes, we run into the bureaucracy of the budget people in 
trying to get these funds flowing the way we intended. Let's 
figure out a strategy where we can actually implement the 
programs that we intended in the last WRDA bill. I thank you 
for your support.
    I want to use my remaining minutes to sort of support 
Senator Inhofe's point as it relates to what I will call the 
small harbors or where we have recreational use. These projects 
are numerous in our State and throughout our country. We 
recognize it doesn't have the same degree of priority because 
the economic impact isn't as direct as the major harbors are. 
But they are critically important to smaller communities.
    I would hope as we look at the WRDA bill for 2022, Madam 
Chair, that we look at a way that we can make progress in 
dealing with some of the smaller projects, because communities 
really depend upon that. We can really help the economic life 
of communities if we deal with some of the standards that are 
currently being used that make it very difficult to get these 
projects funded.
    I just mention that, and I hope we can work together, and I 
hope we can work with our leadership here, to figure out a way 
to move those projects forward. Thank you.
    Senator Capito. Thank you.
    Assistant Secretary Connor, last year we provided the Corps 
with more than $22 billion in additional appropriations with 
the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and the disaster 
supplemental from Hurricane Ida. Funding obviously is critical, 
but if permitting approvals are not issued in a timely fashion, 
these projects cannot move forward. Understanding how the Corps 
has used and continues to use those funds will help us to 
understand what we need to do in the future.
    The first question is a very broad one, but the status of 
the spend plans for those funds and what is the Corps doing to 
help streamline the permitting and environmental review process 
so we can get these projects moving?
    Mr. Connor. I will start with part one of the question with 
respect to the spend plans, the work plans. I can assure you 
that I have been spending a good amount of my time since I have 
been in this position on those spend plans. I am confident that 
we will meet the commitments that Congress set forth in passing 
IIJA in particular and thinking that through in the context of 
the disaster supplemental as well as fiscal year 2022 and the 
fiscal year 2023 budgets.
    I look forward to meeting those commitments. I will just 
express confidence that we are in a position to do that with 
respect to the funding plans.
    Moving on to the regulatory program, you are exactly right. 
There have been issues coming up in our regulatory program that 
I think about, and I know General Spellmon thinks about, in 
terms of we have a lot of work to do. So do a lot of other 
parties. We want to continue to promote, even in, quite 
frankly, a regulatory environment that is changing, we have 
changes in administration, we have court orders, and we have to 
respond and provide some regulatory certainty for potential 
permittees on how we can move forward and do the work that is 
necessary under the Clean Water Act in particular.
    So we have done that. We have dealt with the court 
decisions that have vacated the navigable water protection rule 
as well as the 401 certification processes. We have figured out 
and are giving guidance to folks. But overall, I would say that 
is part of the job, figuring out what we are going to do with 
decisions made.
    In that interim period, we have done that, too. We are not 
going to go back and revisit all decisions that were made. We 
are trying to move forward in the processes but recognize that 
there may be new information that may warrant revisiting some 
of those determinations. That is just going to have to play 
out. That is a conversation we need to have with the actual 
permittees.
    Moving forward, we want to give clarity now so we can move 
forward with the business, and then we want to engage, as we 
talked about during my confirmation process, Waters of the 
U.S., the two step regulatory process, the rulemaking process 
that has been proposed, and let's go back to pre-2015 now. That 
is a familiar landscape. And then move forward with a very 
rigorous process to get to a durable rule that hopefully gets 
us out of this litigation cycle. That is what I said during the 
confirmation process. I believe it even more strongly now.
    Senator Capito. Let me ask a clarifying question. Are you 
saying that some of the permits that had already been granted 
under the previous Administration could retroactively be 
revoked?
    Mr. Connor. Not the previous Administration. We are looking 
at the tenure of the rule itself. We are not looking at----
    Senator Capito. Under that rule, though, are you saying 
they could be revoked?
    Mr. Connor. I think there is some legal risk that may exist 
not because the Corps of Engineers is going to go back and 
assess legal risk, but I think permittees are looking at that. 
The rule was vacated, and that is new terrain for us.
    So I think we all have to think through that from the 
agency perspective as well as the permittee perspective. But we 
think, in general, we have always held to the position that 
decisions made under the appropriate rules at that time are 
valid. We are not going to go back.
    Senator Capito. So you are not going to go back over those?
    Mr. Connor. We are not.
    Senator Capito. OK. I thought you were saying in some 
cases, you might have to, with new information and other 
things.
    Mr. Connor. Well, there may be situations where we do that 
in consultation with the permittees, because they may want to 
limit their legal risk.
    Senator Capito. OK.
    Let me ask, General Spellmon, in WRDA 2020, we talked about 
delivering projects. There was a provision defining 
economically disadvantaged communities.
    My understanding is the agency has not done that. I want to 
know where the development of that definition is and if you are 
following through with the directed language from that bill 
that said you would use the economic distress criteria that EDA 
uses. And if you are following through on that directive, that 
you are using that as the definition, and where you are on this 
specific provision in the WRDA 2020.
    General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am. Thanks for the question. We 
are using the EPA tool to help us identify when we need data on 
minority----
    Senator Capito. The EDA?
    General Spellmon. I am sorry, ma'am?
    Senator Capito. Did you say EPA or EDA?
    General Spellmon. EPA, ma'am.
    Senator Capito. Once again, the EDA or EPA?
    General Spellmon. The EPA tool.
    Senator Capito. So you are not using the EDA 
administration's statute that says that is how you use their 
economic distress criteria? Is that correct?
    General Spellmon. I am sorry; let me go back and follow up 
with you on that.
    Senator Capito. You are so far away I cannot tell the 
difference between a ``D'' and a ``P.''
    General Spellmon. I have seen both tools. I have seen the 
application of the EPA tool on a number of regulatory actions. 
I will go back and follow up on the EDA.
    We have been employing the Environmental Justice Executive 
Order since President Clinton released that in 1994. So I don't 
think we have a problem in identifying and going through that 
two part test when we do our feasibility studies and when we do 
our construction projects, where we are making recommendations 
to the Secretary. I would just briefly take you back to WRDA 
2018. We were asked to provide alternative metrics to the 
benefit to cost ratio that would better serve underserved 
communities, maybe communities in middle America that frankly 
the BCR does not serve very well.
    Senator Capito. Right.
    General Spellmon. We made a number of recommendations. We 
came up with a community equity modifier. I just have not had 
the chance yet to walk Mr. Connor through the work that we did 
following 2018.
    What I am saying is I don't think I have a staffing problem 
or we are not paying attention. I just think it is just the 
metric that is used to grade our homework. We could probably 
have another conversation and make a stronger argument for 
alternative metrics.
    Senator Capito. I think some of these communities, and both 
members who have questioned talked about smaller communities 
that don't have capacity to be able to know how and when to 
work these things or are economically disadvantaged, whether it 
is recreational flood control or whatever. So we need you all 
to step in there, that is the intent. Hopefully, that is what 
you will move forward with.
    General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am.
    Senator Capito. Senator Whitehouse by Webex.
    Senator Whitehouse. Yes. Thank you, Senator Capito.
    Good afternoon, gentlemen. I have a general question and 
then two Rhode Island specific ones.
    The general question has to do with the 2022 budget of the 
Army Corps for its Flood and Coastal Damage Reduction Fund. Do 
you know what that number is? I will break the silence, and I 
will tell you. It is $1.72 billion. Of that $1.72 billion, do 
you know how much is allocated for inland versus coastal?
    Mr. Connor. I do not know the number specifically.
    Senator Whitehouse. It is $1.68 billion. If you do the 
math, the difference is $0.04 billion for coastal flooding 
which is less than 3 percent of the number.
    Of your $1.72 billion, 97.7 percent will go inland. You do 
understand that part of the coastal damage that you are 
referring to, part of the climate risk that you referred to, is 
sea levels rising, worse coastal storms, and resulting coastal 
flooding, correct?
    Mr. Connor. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Whitehouse. All right. So we are going to have to 
have a bit of a conversation about why 97.7 percent goes to 
inland and about 2.3 percent goes to coastal of that $1.72 
billion. May I follow up with you on that, so we are not taking 
all our time here?
    Mr. Connor. Yes, sir, absolutely.
    Senator Whitehouse. Can you defend it quickly? I am I 
wrong, or should we have this conversation?
    Mr. Connor. I would just say I have begun digging into 
that. I know from a budgeting standpoint a little bit about why 
there is a discrepancy.
    I also understand that you have taken matters into your own 
hands with respect to IIJA, BBA 2018, to ensure that there is 
significant resources, and appropriately so, I would say. I am 
applauding you for that effort given storm surge, sea level 
rise, and the risks attending our coasts.
    Senator Whitehouse. Let me move on to two other things, and 
we will keep working on that.
    The two things, one is, I just want to emphasize again the 
continuing importance to me of the Providence River Pilings 
Removal Project. The Army Corps is taking out an abandoned 
bridge. In that project, they are looking at taking out some 
pilings around it.
    In terms of the conversation we have had about smaller 
ports changing their use, the Providence Port area, the 
Providence River around our capital city of Providence, it is 
no longer industrial. The pilings are long since abandoned. 
There are children in sailboats out trying to sail in that 
area. People try to fish and swim in that area. And the pilings 
are dangerous.
    I was told at one point by the Army Corps that you wouldn't 
take them out because they weren't a hazard to navigation 
because you could sail around them. In my view, something you 
have to sail around is the very definition of a hazard to 
navigation.
    So I just want to flag that for you to keep pressing, 
pressing, pressing. It has been years of trying to make some 
progress on this. And thank you for the little bit of progress 
we got related to the bridge and the immediately surrounding 
pilings. But there are other pilings to go.
    The second has to do with the Blackstone River where it 
runs through Rhode Island, comes down from Massachusetts, runs 
through Rhode Island. In the lower Blackstone, there are four 
dams we are trying to fix. We need fish passage in order to 
keep the environment working and allow the, what do they call 
them, the anadromous fish to get up the river. You guys have a 
cost per fish analysis that is very hard for us to meet, 
because these are urban areas, these are downtown, valuable 
areas. This goes back to the original industrial revolution of 
colonial days.
    So we have got a lot of help that we need with those four 
dams. Could you assign someone to help us deal with the cost 
per fish ratio, which seems to create a real problem for small 
dams, and also for dams that have been there a long time, so 
that fish passage is minimum? Because the dam itself has killed 
off the fish that would come for passage. But in time, with any 
luck and with proper fish passage, then that environmental 
resource will revive.
    Those are my two Rhode Island specific concerns.
    General Spellmon. Sir, I will be real quick. I think we are 
going to be fine on the Blackstone River in terms of the 
metric, the ecological outputs. I am confident we are going to 
make that.
    The challenge we are going to have here, you mentioned it, 
this is on some very difficult real estate. CAP Section 206 is 
capped at $10 million per project. We are probably looking, 
with what we know now, at about a $20 million project on this 
real estate.
    So what we want to do is, we will finish our homework, sir, 
and then we will come back to you with what options may be out 
there.
    Senator Whitehouse. OK. And don't forget those pilings. 
Thank you.
    Senator Capito. Senator Cramer.
    Senator Cramer. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    General Spellmon, Assistant Secretary Connor, great to see 
both of you. Happy new year; thanks for being here to help us 
out.
    Mr. Connor, you and I have had some what I thought were 
delightful conversations leading up to your confirmation. I am 
glad that you are confirmed and in front of us now. I am 
looking forward to working with you.
    I especially respected and appreciated your expertise on 
western water rights issues and your understanding of them. We 
will be talking about them in a little bit.
    General Spellmon, likewise, thank you. I have appreciated 
the last couple of years working with you. You have been very 
attentive to North Dakota and North Dakotans and you have been 
very responsive to my concerns. I have appreciated that 
partnership.
    In particular, General Spellmon, I have appreciated the 
work you did previously a couple of years ago on rescinding the 
real estate policy guidance number 26, and of course, 
informally withdrawing the Corps' proposed Surplus Water Rule. 
These were very positive steps, as both the rule and the 
guidance infringed upon States' rights in complete, in my view, 
complete contradiction to existing law. The Water Supply Act 
never authorized a one size fits all rule to federalize the 
water appropriation authority that is specifically reserved for 
States.
    With that in mind, as we pursue now a new WRDA, I think we 
should consider setting up some sort of a venue or a commission 
that would allow States to have a platform to discuss and sort 
these issues out with the Corps. It would provide North Dakota 
and other western States especially the forum to bring 
localized problems that they may be experiencing directly to 
you.
    In our previous conversations, General, you and I discussed 
the potential creation of such a venue. Through your feedback, 
you indicated that you want to make sure that we do not 
recreate another national policy. Believe me, I agree with you.
    Would you agree there would be some value, could be some 
value in western States having an advisory board of some sort, 
or a commission to bring some of these more niche water issues 
to the Corps?
    General Spellmon. Sir, I absolutely always welcome feedback 
and engagement with States and with our partners and 
municipalities out on our waterways. As you know, I have been 
working hard to remove a number of what I have termed DC level 
obstacles to that conversation. You mentioned policy guidance, 
November 26th, we worked hard on the Water Supply Rule. We had 
the Secretary in the previous Administration return the surplus 
water reports without action, and a number of other things.
    Sir, from a purely technical perspective, I would like to 
keep this at the local-regional level. I say that just from my 
experience in the Water Supply Rule. If I were to bring three 
States in this room today, I don't think I could get three 
States to agree on congressional terms like surplus water or 
natural flows. But I can get to solutions at the local level.
    So we are going to follow the direction of Congress. We are 
going to, obviously, honor State water rights. I just did not 
want to take a step back and start to recentralize a committee 
where you have a person like me at the front of the room. I did 
not want to return to those days, sir.
    Senator Cramer. I rarely see value in another layer of 
bureaucracy myself. So I am open to ideas.
    Maybe Mr. Connor, you could weigh in on the possibility of 
some sort of a venue.
    I do think, and you are very familiar with this, western 
issues are unique and oftentimes, the consequence, the western 
States are a consequence of some other region's policies. That 
is my only reason for thinking about this. I am not committed 
to it, but I would be interested in your thoughts.
    Mr. Connor. Absolutely, Senator. I have appreciated our 
discussions, and I think it is your terminology, a fellow 
policy geek.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Connor. I share that view and have enjoyed the 
discussions. I think that is what this gets to, is as we 
discussed, and I think as General Spellmon has alluded to, we 
need to look at every tool that we have with respect to water 
supply to address some of the challenges, particularly out west 
where there is water scarcity across many basins.
    So from that standpoint, how do we best figure out, we did 
this a long time with the Bureau of Reclamation, we set it up 
from the beginning, Section 8 of the Reclamation Act, go to the 
States, get your permits, and work it out from there. That is 
not how the Corps developed its water resources project, 
because they weren't developed for supply.
    So how do we get back to having that analysis to move 
forward and figure out how we can use these facilities or 
manage or operate these facilities in a way that enhances water 
supply, that is in watersheds, that is with the relevant States 
involved? Because they will be driven by the need for 
solutions.
    So I completely support what General Spellmon said about 
the watershed and the local level. But there is an urgent need, 
I think, that you are trying to get at. And I think we can try 
to figure out how to meld the two to have this dialogue with 
the appropriate folks in the room.
    Senator Cramer. I appreciate that. I just want to associate 
myself as well with some comments you made earlier in response 
to both Senator Inhofe and Senator Cardin about the smaller 
recreational opportunities. It is really quite remarkable how 
much recreational facility you are responsible for at the 
Corps.
    In our water scarcity of the West, we are experiencing a 
drought right now. If you have been out to Sekakawea before the 
freeze, you know there is going to be lot of exposed 
infrastructure from previous droughts that needs to be 
rehabbed. I am looking for creative ways that we can be helpful 
and that you can be helpful and multiple agencies can be 
helpful to make sure that regardless who the landlord is that 
we actually grow the opportunity for enjoying the lake.
    With that, I appreciate again both of you.
    I yield.
    Senator Capito. Thank you.
    Senator Duckworth.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Assistant Secretary Connor, welcome. The America's Water 
Infrastructure Act, which was enacted in 2018, included my 
provision that requires the Corps to analyze Federal policies 
that hinder the Corps' ability to address urban flooding. The 
previous Administration committed to deliver this study to 
Congress by 2019. Unfortunately, it failed to meet its deadline 
and never delivered the report.
    Assistant Secretary Connor, would you commit to 
prioritizing the completion of this study as required under the 
2018 WRDA reauthorization? And once completed, provide my 
office with a briefing on the results to inform our efforts to 
strengthen the Corps' capabilities and capacity to address 
urban flooding?
    Mr. Connor. Yes, Senator, I commit to following up and to 
prioritize giving the report and the information available to 
you. I think it fits within the idea that we are looking to 
figure out how we can address urban disadvantaged communities 
which are disproportionately affected. I think it fits in that 
area.
    So I know there has been a lot of work done on the report. 
I don't exactly know where it is in the process. But it is on 
my radar screen now, and it is a priority on the commitment I 
just made.
    Senator Duckworth. OK. Well, it was due in 2019. So I hope 
that it is a priority item.
    Do you think it could be completed and release this study 
by the end of this month?
    Mr. Connor. I don't know that it will be available by the 
end of this month, but I will definitely get back with you and 
your staff as far as timing, and ensure that I am doing what I 
can to break it free, Senator.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you.
    This next question is for both witnesses. It is about urban 
flooding and disadvantaged communities. The Corps manages a 
significant amount of our Nation's infrastructure, and 
communities depend on the Corps to implement projects that will 
help protect them from harmful flooding and natural disasters. 
We have already heard about this today. We need to do this 
without worsening pollution problems.
    Because many Corps projects are located near or directly 
impact low income communities, both urban and rural, and 
communities of color, it is critical that the Corps have the 
staff capacity to achieve multiple goals for these communities. 
These goals include, I feel, prioritizing recovery efforts, 
minimizing adverse impacts of projects, and collecting and 
integrating input from communities, experts, and other 
stakeholders to improve current policies and practices.
    Lieutenant General Spellmon and Assistant Secretary Connor, 
would each of you describe how the Corps would benefit from 
Congress taking action to authorize some form of an advisory 
committee to support the Corps' environmental justice efforts 
to better serve marginalized and disadvantaged communities? 
Also, would the Corps consider prioritizing environmental 
justice initiatives across the agency by elevating an official 
to specifically advise leadership on this topic?
    How do you feel about an advisory committee, and would you 
elevate somebody and pin the rose on them to be in charge of 
environmental justice, marginalized and disadvantaged 
communities?
    Mr. Connor. Yes. With respect to an advisory committee, I 
think the idea of getting input to ensuring that we are having 
communications with those communities and their representatives 
about how we can best address the risks they are facing, that 
is part of a dialogue that we should be having overall. From 
that standpoint, given the Administration's focus on that, I am 
definitely open to the idea of an advisory committee. We can 
have a dialogue.
    Quite frankly, we rely on that. And as we move forward and 
we implement the procedures and the requirements to look at how 
we can benefit disadvantaged, marginalized communities, we are 
going to look to those communities to help best inform us. But 
if there is an overarching dialogue that we should be part of, 
I am supportive of that, absolutely. We are going to need 
somebody, and we are going to have to socialize this throughout 
the organization, through the Corps. And I know General 
Spellmon has been working with this, because we have talked 
about this with respect to addressing environmental justice 
needs within the projects and activities that we undertake. We 
will certainly take under advisement the idea of elevating 
somebody with that specific responsibility.
    But even then, that is just a start. We need to integrate 
this throughout the organization.
    General Spellmon. Senator Duckworth, I would just add, we 
are never going to say no to advice, we are never going to say 
no to more staff expertise. We would welcome both of these 
initiatives.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Senator Carper [presiding]. I think Senator Sullivan is 
next.
    Senator Sullivan, welcome; how are you?
    Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Good to see you.
    Senator Sullivan. I want to follow up; gentlemen, good to 
see both of you. Very quickly, just on this issue of 
environmental justice, marginalized communities, as my good 
friend Tammy Duckworth, Senator Duckworth, mentioned. It has 
not been you guys yet, it better not be, but the Biden 
administration continues on their actually targeting, targeting 
of marginalized communities in my State.
    Just on Monday, we had, Mr. Chairman, our 21st executive 
action targeting solely the great State of Alaska, 21st very 
negative for our State. The Inupiat community leaders of the 
North Slope put out a press release, great Americans who 
don't--this is a press release that in some ways is out of 
character. Because they are so angry, Mr. Secretary. They are 
so angry because they are being attacked. Native Americans, 
marginalized community, environmental justice BS you hear from 
this Administration all the time, here is just a couple of 
quotes.
    This is when they took 50 percent of the National Petroleum 
Reserve of Alaska, set aside by Congress for energy 
development, 50 percent off the table going all the way back to 
President Obama. Not based on science. Radical environmental 
groups.
    So here is the Inupiat leadership of my State. All this 
baloney about environmental justice, marginalized communities, 
we really care about helping the most downtrodden communities; 
it is baloney. It is. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman. But it is.
    Here is the chairman of ASRC: On multiple occasions, ASRC, 
the borough and the Tribe have offered to work in partnership 
with the Biden administration on issues affecting our region, 
the North Slope Borough. Bigger than California, by the way. 
Secretary Haaland and President Biden have chosen with this 
decision not only to ignore the voices of North Slope Inupiat, 
Native Americans, but to exclude us from the decisionmaking 
process on issues that impact our Inupiat communities and our 
culture.
    Here is the Inupiat leader of the Arctic Slope region. 
Secretary Haaland has violated her department's consultation 
guidance by failing to consult with the Inupiat community of 
the Arctic Slope. That is a Tribe. We are a federally 
recognized Tribe, and this action directly impacts the 
livelihoods of our tribal members. This is further proof that 
the Biden administration prioritizes its relationships with 
environmental organizations over the sovereignty of Alaska 
Natives.
    Here is the North Slope borough mayor, Harry Brower, 
Inupiat leader. I have a responsibility to the people of the 
North Slope to protect the long term sustainability of 
communities through a viable economic base, a responsibility I 
take seriously for the Native people of my State. Secretary 
Haaland is failing in her responsibility to the Alaska Native 
people of the North Slope.
    Mr. Secretary, it goes on and on and on. All this baloney 
about environmental justice, we want to take care of 
disadvantaged communities, guess what? There is a huge 
exception in the Biden administration. As we, not for Alaska 
Natives, we will target them, we will make sure we crush their 
economic opportunities.
    Can I get both of your commitments not to do this? Twenty-
one executive actions smashing my State. There is no other 
State in the country that is getting this kind of focus on 
shutting down Alaska, ignoring the Native people, and then they 
go to the meeting and say, oh, we care about the disadvantaged 
communities of America. That is a bunch of baloney. Not in my 
State, they don't.
    Mr. Secretary, you and I have talked about this. I am 
sorry, I am so angry about this. You haven't done it yet, 
General, you haven't done it yet. I sure hope you don't. Do you 
have any response? Or can I just get your commitment, don't do 
this to my State? If Joe Biden had a Republican administration 
that came in on year one and issued 21 executive actions 
against Delaware, he would be as mad as I am.
    Mr. Connor. Senator Sullivan, I can assure you that 
environmental justice and working with marginalized communities 
is not baloney to me. I don't believe it is baloney to the 
Administration.
    Senator Sullivan. But as long as they are not disadvantaged 
communities in Alaska. Then they get targeted. Just commit to 
me to not do that.
    Mr. Connor. My commitment that I am going to work with the 
Native communities in Alaska, I talked to Mayor Brower a few 
weeks ago about some needs that are up there on the North 
Slope. It is an ongoing dialogue. We are going to try and serve 
those communities as I think they are being served across the 
country.
    Senator Sullivan. Well, I want to work with both of you on 
whether it is the Port of Nome, what is going on in Barrow. We 
had General Gibbs, who was up in Barrow with me this summer, 
who did a great job, General. I am sorry, I love the Corps, I 
think both of you are very qualified. This is just----
    Senator Carper. The Senator's time has expired.
    Senator Sullivan [continuing]. Very difficult for my 
constituents to have to deal with. And I think it is unfair, 
Mr. Chairman, and I would like to have a hearing on this, this 
Administration targeting one State with shutdown.
    Thank you, gentlemen. I am going to submit questions for 
the record.
    Senator Carper. Very good.
    My staff is going to recognize Senator Markey next, but I 
was just handed a note by my senior staff person on water 
issues that the issue being raised here regarding the Tribes, 
this particular issue is an issue that is under the Energy and 
Natural Resources Committee and under the Interior Department. 
Let's talk about it after.
    Senator Sullivan. I acknowledge that.
    Senator Carper. Very good. Thank you.
    All right, Senator Markey. Your turn. Thanks for your 
patience.
    Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much.
    The Sagamore and the Bourne Bridges, also known as the Cape 
Cod Canal Bridges, connect the nearly 250,000 residents of Cape 
Cod to the rest of Massachusetts. And these structures are 
essential routes for general transportation, tourism, and 
evacuations in case of an emergency, which is more important 
than ever as Cape Cod faces the existential threat of climate 
change. It is right in the crosshairs, and the only way off of 
Cape Cod are these two bridges in the event that a Hurricane 
Sandy-like event occurs.
    The Army Corps has ably owned and maintained the Cape Cod 
Bridges since 1935. Unfortunately, they are now more than 85 
years old and are in desperate need of replacement. That is why 
I fought so hard to make sure that our recent bipartisan 
infrastructure law could provide the resources we need to 
replace both bridges. First, we gave Massachusetts and the Army 
Corps a huge increase. My State, Massachusetts, is now poised 
to receive more than $9 billion in direct Federal 
infrastructure funding over the next 5 years, including $1.1 
billion for bridge replacement and repair. And the Army Corps 
has also received more than $17 billion in new funding for the 
next 5 years.
    Second, I also helped, working with the Chairman, to make 
sure that the bipartisan infrastructure law includes nearly $35 
billion in competitive grant opportunities that can now be 
targeted for the Cape Cod Bridges.
    Assistant Secretary Connor, we have talked extensively 
about this project. I appreciate your support that you have 
expressed in private. So I just hope at this moment, in a 
public hearing, that you would commit to advancing this bridge 
replacement effort in Massachusetts. Do you agree that the 
infrastructure law provides a path forward and sufficient 
funding opportunities to replace the Cape Cod Bridges?
    Mr. Connor. Absolutely, Senator Markey. Thank you for the 
question. Thank you for the dialogue that we had over the 
holidays on this particular issue. I think absolutely the IIJA 
does provide the opportunity and the resources for us to move 
forward in the bridge project.
    As we discussed, I think it is going to be an interagency, 
interdepartmental partnership that is going to get this done. 
We are working with the Department of Transportation. Even with 
the very productive conversations we had before you and I 
spoke, we have had ongoing conversations. I had discussions 
with leadership at the Department of Transportation on this 
effort. So I think we are executing the game plan that we 
talked about. We are moving forward on those next steps that we 
discussed.
    So absolutely, we will keep you posted on that.
    Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, very much. And 
again, IIJA, for anyone listening, the other name for the----
    Mr. Connor. The bipartisan infrastructure bill.
    Senator Markey. Yes, the other name for that is Cape Cod 
Bridges as it is translated into English in Massachusetts.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Markey. Will you commit to ensuring that the Army 
Corps applies all of the grant programs it can to complete the 
essential project, including opportunities that can be pursued 
in collaboration with Massachusetts?
    Mr. Connor. Absolutely. We are looking at all 
opportunities. We have strong incentive to do that.
    Senator Markey. I thank you, Mr. Secretary.
    Another issue facing Massachusetts is the growing threat of 
more flooding, coastal erosion, and extreme storms, all of 
which are supercharged by human caused climate change. Far too 
many communities in my State are already experiencing the 
devastating impacts of coastal erosion on their beaches, homes, 
and businesses, from Plum Island up in Newburyport, down to 
Chatham, Revere, Winthrop, and more. Flooding, sea level rise, 
and extreme storms are also dire threats for communities like 
Boston and Chelsea and others that are potentially 
environmental justice communities.
    We are fighting every day to make sure that the climate 
crisis is not an extinction level event for eastern 
Massachusetts. But we have to prepare to respond to the 
unavoidable and inevitable impacts.
    There is a program that the Army Corps has, the Storm and 
Hurricane Restoration and Impact Minimization Program, through 
which the Corps can respond. Secretary Connor, would you agree 
that this program's funding should be increased in order to 
ensure the Army Corps can keep pace with the growing threat of 
climate change?
    Mr. Connor. Senator Markey, I am not familiar specifically 
with this program. Looking at the totality of the needs out 
there, and going through our work plan process and 
understanding the need, we need to invest more in resilience. 
There is no question about it, given all the factors that you 
just enunciated.
    General Spellmon, with respect to the specific program, you 
know about that.
    General Spellmon. Exactly, sir, we would certainly support 
that. Also, sir, we appreciate Congress' support of the Boston 
Regional Coastal Storm Risk Management Study. You gave us a new 
start in 2021. We are going to make our best technical argument 
for funding if we are offered a 2022 work plan to move out on 
that effort.
    Senator Markey. Thank you.
    That is why, Mr. Chairman, I want to work with you in the 
next WRDA bill, the next Water Resources bill, so that we have 
the capacity to provide the resources to these great public 
servants, so that they can provide the protection for those 
very valuable resources along our coastlines that otherwise are 
going to be in great jeopardy.
    So I thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank both of you for being 
great public servants as well.
    Senator Carper. Thanks, Senator Markey. Thanks a lot for 
joining us and for your passion on these issues. I remember 
that bridge, and conversation about that bridge.
    Senator Stabenow is on her way back to her office to join 
us remotely, and Senator Kelly, why don't I recognize you.
    Oh, is she here?
    Senator Stabenow. Hello, Mr. Chairman. I am here.
    Senator Carper. Great. Go right ahead, then we will turn to 
Senator Kelly.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, as we 
are all juggling various things. Thank goodness for being able 
to do some of this virtually.
    I am very enthused about working with you on the next WRDA 
bill.
    To Mr. Connor and General Spellmon, thank you for your 
leadership on these really important issues.
    It is hard for me to think of a single piece of 
infrastructure more consequential to our economy than the Soo 
Locks up in the UP where as you know, right now we only have 
one large lock that will handle freighters, barges coming 
through from the St. Lawrence Seaway carrying materials, 
carrying finished products, and so on that go not only all 
around the Great Lakes region, but really all around the 
country.
    During my recent visit, I asked the officials from the 
Detroit Army Corps what impact front loading all of the 
funding, the entire funding so they could do the long term 
contracts that are needed to get this thing completed so, 
heaven forbid, we don't have a shutdown of the one lock working 
and really a disaster economically. But what impact front 
loading would have on completing the project. And I was really 
pleased to hear, the good news is that if we provide all the 
funding up front now for certainty, and they can do the 
contracts, we can expedite its completion by up to 2 years, and 
potentially up to $200 million.
    So it seems like this would be the prudent, efficient, 
responsible thing to do. So following the passage of the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, I led a letter, along 
with seven of our Great Lakes Senators, to the Administration 
supporting the portion of the Corps' new construction to fully 
fund the Soo Locks project. Given the importance of the project 
to the Great Lakes region, to the national economy as a whole, 
can I count on the Corps to give very serious consideration to 
this request?
    Mr. Connor. Absolutely, giving it very, very strong 
consideration. Important, strategic, as I have looked into it 
after we had our initial discussion about the Soo Locks, the 
reliance on that system and the lack of redundancy that exists, 
it is concerning. It is one of those things that you do wake up 
in the middle of the night thinking about.
    So from that standpoint, strong consideration, absolutely.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you. Yes, heaven forbid we would 
see a Suez Canal type situation, where it is blocked and we 
can't move forward.
    Speaking of high stakes Corps projects, I want to also talk 
again about the Brandon Road Lock and Dam project to install 
comprehensive measures to stop invasive carp from entering the 
Great Lakes. This is of interest to a number of us on the 
Committee, and off the Committee. An event that would result in 
irreparable damage to the Great Lakes.
    Despite the gravity of the threat, this project has not 
progressed nearly quick enough. These fish just keep coming, 
whether we are completing this project to stop them or not. We 
authorized a feasibility study as part of an award in 2007; 
this has been a bipartisan effort. We expedited its completion 
as part of the 2012 Highway Bill, and today we still have 3 
years remaining on the preconstruction engineering and design. 
The carp are continuing to swim up the Mississippi River and 
the Illinois River. They are not waiting for us to get this 
thing done.
    So while I appreciate the Corps' diligence, the pace at 
which it moves in adopting innovative solutions across, carries 
its own risks. I realize these are new solutions that you have 
come up with. But it has been, there has been such caution and 
slowness on it. I am very concerned.
    How is the Corps working to become more responsive to these 
sorts of pressing threats, especially as we look forward to a 
whole slew of new and unprecedented challenges as a result of 
the climate crisis?
    General Spellmon. Senator, this is General Spellmon. I will 
tell you, this has our full attention. And I acknowledge, it 
will never be fast enough. But as you outlined, we absolutely 
have to get the engineering right. We are dealing with new 
technologies. We have not put on a structure of this size 
before, CO2 curtains, acoustic barriers, light 
deterrents. We appreciate, Congress has been generous, as has 
the President's budget, to give us all the money we need and 
can put to work with our best engineers and architects that are 
going very hard on the design for this project.
    Ma'am, you have my commitment, we will work to get out a 
design as quickly as possible and get to construction.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you very much.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Senator Stabenow, thank you for joining us 
remotely as we work through this afternoon's series of votes.
    Next, I understand Senator Ernst is here; yes, she is here.
    Senator Ernst, nice to see you.
    Then Senator Kelly.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you.
    Senator Carper. Thanks to you both for joining us.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you, gentlemen, very much for being here. General 
Spellmon, always great to see you. I know you have worked so 
hard on a number of projects throughout Iowa. We are greatly 
appreciative.
    In December, Senator Grassley led a bipartisan letter that 
I had signed. It stated the importance of the Navigation and 
Ecosystem Sustainability Program, NESP, and asking if it gets 
prioritized in the course of coming work plan. Iowa has 
approximately 85,000 farms, 95 percent of which are family 
owned. As we work to make American farm exports more abundant 
around the world, we also need to maintain a strong and 
efficient inland waterways navigation system. The 20 most 
recent new starts for the inland waterways system, only one was 
in the upper Mississippi River Basin.
    So, Mr. Secretary and General, can you make any assurances 
today that NESP, specifically for me, Lock and Dam 25, will be 
prioritized in the upcoming Corps work plan?
    Mr. Connor. Senator Ernst, thank you for the question, and 
raising the issue. It is being given strong consideration as 
part of the work plan process. As I noted earlier, I was out, 
one of my first trips out of the box was on the Mississippi, 
and on the Illinois River, and becoming familiar with the users 
of the inland waterway system. I recognized from that meeting 
and the explanations the importance from an agricultural 
perspective, the supply chain as a whole, in and out, the 
reliability of this system, that is certainly part of that 
process.
    So as directed by Congress, we will be making substantial 
investments for following the capital investment strategy. And 
it is going to get strong consideration.
    Senator Ernst. OK, and General Spellmon?
    General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am, so we are making the best use 
of the $5 million that Congress gave us in the 2021 work plan 
to advance the design for Lock and Dam No. 25, adjacent mooring 
cells, and of course, there is a correlated ecosystem 
restoration project. We want to make sure when the 
Administration makes its decision that we are absolutely ready 
to go to construction. These are important projects.
    Senator Ernst. Very important projects. I appreciate your 
commitment. And if we need to make any further discussion 
opportunities in the future, let me know. I am happy to visit 
with both of you. But it is a priority for us. Thank you very 
much for that.
    Certainly one of the priorities for the WRDA 2022 would 
require the Corps to submit a report to Congress listing all 
projects that are either $100 million over budget or 5 years 
behind schedule. So again, that is a priority I have for WRDA 
2022.
    Unlike in the private sector, there are no clear incentives 
for Federal agencies to deliver projects on time or on budget. 
General Spellmon, what kind of incentives do you think that 
agencies might respond to? What do you think would be 
effective?
    General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am. I professionally disagree 
that we don't have any incentives. There are firms out there 
that build big box stores, and they do it every day, and they 
get very good at it over and over. And there are firms out 
there that build high rise apartments, and they do it every 
day, every year, and they get very good at it.
    I don't have two projects that are alike in the Civil Works 
Program. Cedar Rapids is very different from Texas coastal; it 
is very different from what we are dealing with down in Miami. 
That is the beauty of why folks want to come to the Corps, 
because they are working on national level infrastructure that 
is all different. They are not building Wal-Marts.
    That is why I think that the engineers and the talent that 
we have in the Corps are recognized nationally throughout the 
year on national level awards. Many of them are recognized, 
ma'am, internationally for the work that they do. We work on, 
again, projects that are of national significance, both here in 
the United States and today in 110 countries around the world.
    Senator Ernst. And yes, I would agree, I think we have a 
phenomenal Corps that does a great job, tremendous engineers. 
But what we do end up with are a lot of projects that end up 
behind schedule, or over time. Cedar Rapids, of course, 
additional dollars will be needed for that particular project.
    So how can we do better with that?
    General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am. You absolutely have our 
commitment. We want to do better. So for Cedar Rapids, yes, we 
have some cost growth. Ma'am, I will go back to the beginning 
of the bipartisan Budget Act of 2018. This was not unexpected, 
given the level of feasibility we had done on this particular 
project and several others. We knew this cost growth was 
coming. We just didn't know where.
    So we have, in this case we have adequate contingency in 
our non-Harvey or Memory Estates to adequately cover the cost 
growth. Again, it was expected. We are planning for it. And we 
are committed to finishing that project.
    Senator Ernst. And we are extremely pleased that you have 
been engaging with Cedar Rapids and so many of the other 
projects as well. We hope that we can continue working on this. 
Lock and Dam 25, let's try and get that going as well. But I 
really appreciate your time and your attention to so many of 
these projects. And hopefully, we can see many of them 
completed in the near future.
    Thank you. I yield.
    Senator Carper. Senator Ernst, great to see you.
    Now, patient, long awaited Senator Kelly.
    Senator Boozman, you follow on the heels of Senator Kelly.
    Then I understand we are going to have another vote in the 
Senate later today. It is an interesting afternoon.
    All right. Mark, you are up.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you to both Secretary Connor and General Spellmon for 
joining us today.
    As we begin drafting the 2022 WRDA bill, it is important to 
me that we ensure the Army Corps of Engineers has the 
authorities and the resources necessary to respond to the 
drought that is facing Arizona and other western States. And as 
the bill moves through the Senate, I am hopeful that we can 
work together to ensure a whole government approach to respond 
to this severe drought. It is not like anything we have seen in 
our lifetime. It has been going on 22 years now. It is 
significant.
    Secretary Connor, as a former Commissioner of the Bureau of 
Reclamation, I know you know the importance of these issues. So 
I would like to start my questions with you. As you know, the 
2020 WRDA bill authorized a new Section 595 Western 
Infrastructure Program in Arizona which allows localities in 
Arizona to receive funding for a variety of water and 
wastewater projects.
    What updates can you share about the Corp's work to stand 
up and fund this program? How do you think a program like this 
can help Arizona adapt to changing drought conditions?
    Mr. Connor. Senator Kelly, thank you for the question. As 
you and I discussed, I understand from that prior service 
Arizona is at the epicenter of drought in the Colorado River 
Basin and facing shortages to the supply that it has long 
relied on. And I think the Environmental Infrastructure 
Program, so we have already started funding. Pascua Yaqui 
Tribe, I believe, got about a million dollars to move forward 
with water supply pipeline. I think that is one aspect.
    But in the dialogue that you and I have had, and with 
others, I also understand there is about $70 million of 
identified projects already. That is a good thing. We have a 
whole of government approach. I know the Interior Department 
has a lot of responsibilities and resources that it will be 
applying to the Colorado River system.
    But we can do our part in working with your communities. We 
are developing innovative strategies under that Environmental 
Infrastructure Program, managed aquifer recharge, re-use 
activity. So we will look forward to trying to work with the 
resources we have, and there are additional resources within 
IIJA for environmental infrastructure. And I know it has been 
part of the congressionally directed spending in past 
appropriations bills. So will put that to good use whenever we 
can to help address these resource issues.
    I think even in our overall programs that we are 
undertaking in Arizona, looking at how we integrate flood 
protection and water supply, and looking for opportunities for 
multi-benefits is going to be a key part of what we do moving 
forward.
    Senator Kelly. Do you think this will help us deal with the 
drought situation we are facing?
    Mr. Connor. I think it is an absolutely critical part of 
the drought situation. There is always going to be some 
reliance on the Colorado River. But having these local 
strategies developed through the water supply and re-use and 
wastewater projects that we are talking about, and flood 
control, I think that is the future. It needs to be.
    Senator Kelly. So broadening this out a little bit, do you 
believe that the Corps' main authorities for flood risk 
management, ecosystem restoration, and water supply are 
sufficient to allow the Corps to play its part in responding to 
drought conditions in the western United States?
    Mr. Connor. I am going to have to look into that more 
closely. I know we have authorities to engage in projects and 
activities, whether they are long term enough, whether they 
have the right parameters to ensure we are looking at this. I 
think we have the discretion to do that.
    But that will be an ongoing dialogue, and I will get with 
you and your staff on that.
    Senator Kelly. That is what I would like you to do. So if 
there are additional authorities which the Corps could benefit 
from to address water supply issues unique to the western 
United States, if you could get us that information, and 
General Spellmon, the same for you, that would be incredibly 
helpful. And we will work with both of you to make sure that 
within, if it makes sense, to get you the authorities that you 
need.
    Mr. Connor. Absolutely.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I yield back 
the remainder of my time.
    Senator Carper. All right, thanks. Thanks, Senator Kelly.
    We have been rejoined by Senator Boozman.
    Good to see you, my friend. You are recognized. Thanks for 
joining us, twice.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, as always, Mr. Chairman. We 
appreciate the hearing today. Thank you all for being here.
    Also, General Spellmon, Secretary Connor, we appreciate 
you, we appreciate the Administration for their support of the 
President's 2022 budget request for the Three Rivers Navigation 
Project. This is something that is essential to the river. If 
it fails, and it is not a question of, it is when, then it 
would severely make it such that essentially the Arkansas River 
would shut down, which would be a real impact not only to the 
State of Arkansas, but our entire economy.
    So I do appreciate your having the foresight to address it 
before it becomes a crisis.
    I have a couple of questions. Congress authorized the 
deepening of the MKARNS in 2003, and work on the 12 foot 
deepening project was initiated in 2006, using funds 
appropriated in 2005. However, the project has been inactive 
since then. I understand preconstruction engineering design 
funds, this is something that we have been working with Senator 
Inhofe and the Arkansas delegation, entire Arkansas delegation, 
Oklahoma delegation, but I understand preconstruction 
engineering design funds will be required in fiscal year 2022 
and 2023 for resumption of the deepening project.
    What are the capability figures for preconstruction 
engineering design for the Tulsa and Little Rock Districts for 
fiscal year 2022 and 2023?
    General Spellmon. I will take that, sir. We are going to 
express capability for $10 million. There is some more design 
work.
    But I also want to share with you that we are thinking 
proactively here, we are combining some already funded O&M work 
for bank stabilization and rock placement that we need to do. 
But that is also going to serve us well when we move forward 
with the deepening.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. The final question has to do 
with the levee safety provision that was enacted as part of the 
Water Resources Development Act of 2020. Section 131 of WRDA 
directs the Corps to do three things with the individual levee 
sponsors for systems in the Federal portfolio: Identify project 
specific engineering and maintenance deficiencies, if any; 
describe recommended remedies and the associated cost of these 
remedies; consult closely with the non-Federal sponsor 
throughout the process. We were part of leading this.
    The problem is, we have a situation where we all agree, you 
have a levee that really isn't very well maintained. But it is 
a Catch-22 situation, in the sense that with your grading 
structure, it is not recognized as that. You say, well, how can 
I fix this? What can I do to get it up to the level? And there 
is simply no answer.
    So this is something that we have to get fixed. We have 
excellent levees, not only in Arkansas, but throughout the 
country, with this minimally acceptable rating, which is 
simply, it is not good.
    General Spellmon. Sir, I know we are going back and working 
with the public on this. I know one of the pieces that we have 
received a lot of feedback on is how we are defining risk. It 
is a probability, and at times a consequence. The probability, 
of course, is what you described, the state of the levee, the 
structure of the levee, how sound is it. It is the consequence 
if that were to fail.
    We were using that as a metric to help the Secretary make 
informed decisions with limited funds. You can't go out and fix 
everything. So let's use this risk metric.
    We are going to circle back on this, sir. We have more 
communications to do with experts in your State and throughout 
the country on how we can better communicate this and find a 
way forward.
    Senator Boozman. Yes, again, and we need to do that in a 
timely fashion.
    The other problem, we have had on the Mississippi or 
various waterways, we have had these massive floods, these 
centuries floods. That is a great stress test. For areas that 
have held up with no problem at all, what better measurement is 
there that they are capable of doing. See what I am saying?
    The other side is that you all could be very proud, you 
have designed a system that really has done well, and we can be 
very proud of that. But we have some problems in administering 
it.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you guys, very much.
    Senator Carper. Senator Boozman, thanks as always for 
joining us and for your thoughtful questioning.
    I have a series of questions I would like to ask of 
Secretary Connor and General Spellmon.
    Mr. Connor, you have been in this new job for how long now?
    Mr. Connor. Senator, I think it is 6 weeks now.
    Senator Carper. Does it seem longer?
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Connor. No, it is actually just one long day it seems 
like, since that time.
    Senator Carper. All right. Just take a minute and reflect 
on your new responsibilities, what you expected, what you have 
found, what you are encouraged by, maybe what you are 
challenged by. Just take a few minutes on that. Then I have 
some other prepared questions.
    Mr. Connor. Senator, I appreciate the question.
    I am taken aback about the level of respect across, on a 
bipartisan basis, across regions of this country, the work that 
the Army Corps of Engineers does, and the importance that it 
has to many, many communities. There are obviously a lot of 
issues all the time. But I think people have made it clear to 
me, they take a step back, and they look at the totality of 
what the Corps does in their communities, and they appreciate 
that work. It has resonated with me how important this 
organization is.
    The expectations are daunting with respect to the need that 
exists. You have identified a number of things that we should 
be working on, particularly in a climate impacted world, and 
the enormity of the task ahead of us is daunting to say the 
least.
    But I am confident, I feel very fortunate to be working 
with the folks that I get to work with, and to have a role in 
this organization and be charged with responsibilities that 
Congress and members like you have for this organization. And I 
think it is a great partnership, and I think we can do a lot of 
great work.
    But we have the weight of expectations, of execution, too. 
So it is not just about thinking about it, talking about it, 
having good intentions. It is about execution and moving 
forward. And we are working on the whole range of that 
portfolio.
    Senator Carper. All right, good. I think you partly 
answered this. When we passed the bipartisan infrastructure 
bill this Committee provided the foundation for the water side, 
drinking water, wastewater, flood issues. And on the surface 
transportation side, there were roads, bridges issues as well.
    The first part of getting that money out to States to put 
it to work, it has been done. We don't come together on a lot 
of big issues on a bipartisan basis these days. But we did pass 
on a strong bipartisan basis the comprehensive bipartisan 
infrastructure legislation.
    The second challenge is to make sure the money gets out the 
door, to be put to good use. I think that is beginning to be 
done.
    The second thing is we want to make sure that people in 
this country know what is happening, and that we don't hide our 
candle under a bushel, and we let them know what we are doing, 
how that money is being put to good use to improve their 
quality of life. Also, to frankly strengthen our economic 
vibrancy of our country.
    So thank you for those reflections. Again, we are delighted 
that you are interested in this job. The President nominated 
you, and we are grateful to our colleagues for confirming you.
    This is a question for General Spellmon, and for you, Mr. 
Connor. Gentlemen, as leaders of the Corps, you understand the 
importance of the biannual Water Resources Development Act 
legislation probably better than anybody around. As you know, 
it not only authorizes projects and spending limits for the 
Corps, but it sets new authorities and new priorities.
    Now that we are starting development of the 2022 WRDA, I 
would like to take this opportunity to hear from both of you 
today about key changes, priorities, or authorities that the 
Corps needs to be a better partner with non-Federal 
stakeholders.
    Mr. Connor, why don't you take that, lead off with that? 
Then we will kick it over to General Spellmon.
    Mr. Connor. Thank you, Senator Carper. Absolutely. Thinking 
about how we can best use this WRDA 2022 process, I think 
General Spellmon may have some specific ideas that we have 
discussed. I want to talk a little bit more broadly. We are 
going to be moving forward in the direction of WRDA 2020 and 
doing agency specific procedures with respect to the principal 
requirements and guidelines, which is going to be looking at 
our projects and comprehensive benefits associated with those 
projects, not just focused on national economic development. 
What are regional benefits, what are local benefits, what are 
environmental and social benefits, and how we integrate that 
into our decisionmaking as part of that. We also want to ensure 
we are looking at certain features of our projects, that we are 
looking and expecting that we at least assess natural and 
nature based features, and that we integrate them wherever we 
can.
    So it is going to be a pretty significant undertaking. We 
are going to be moving forward with that process. And how we 
take those ideas and those disclosures and that discussion and 
turn it into practice is something that we should all be 
looking at as to whether that requires new authorities or 
modification authorities about how we assess and how we choose 
and select projects.
    So I think that is a heads up for the process that you 
directed. And I think it is one that we should keep in touch 
on, because it may yield the need for new authorities.
    Second, as we have talked about here today, with respect to 
environmental infrastructure, continuing authority programs, 
communities across the country are making great use of those 
programs. I naively thought a year ago that they were 
underutilized programs that had a lot of capability. Now I know 
they are oversubscribed programs with respect to the need. You 
all obviously understood that in providing the resources in the 
bipartisan infrastructure bill. So how we make use of those 
authorities, thread them into the needs, and maybe expand their 
use is something that we ought to think about together.
    Last, I would note, how we do business and how we create 
the efficiencies to make investments in the best use of our 
resources is going to be an ongoing issue, particularly with 
the size of the portfolio that General Spellmon mentioned in 
his opening statements, the expectations not just for the Civil 
Works Program. Our Civil Works folks support other activities.
    So contracting efficiencies, something even like the plant 
replacement improvement program, WRDA 2016 might have put a 
little bit of process in there that maybe we want to discuss 
about more flexibility to use at least some low dollar funds. 
We understand the need for oversight about how we use funds 
directly to address some of our plant maintenance and 
replacement needs.
    But maybe we can talk a little bit about some flexibility 
with respect to that, and looking back to the changes made in 
the 2016 WRDA. Those are three ideas that I will throw out. I 
know General Spellmon has some more.
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir, first of all a general 
statement on your comment on partnership. I tell myself, I have 
a consistency problem. I have districts that do partnering and 
have partnerships, and they do this very well. And I have some 
that don't do it very well at all. We are working every day, 
this is one of our four priorities.
    Senator Carper. Why do you suppose some do it well, and 
some don't do it well? Can you generalize on that?
    General Spellmon. Sir, it is younger staff, it is 
inexperienced commanders coming to the Corps for the first 
time. So we just published new guidelines. We have not 
published doctrine on this since 1993. So we have new 
guidelines out, and we are working on a partnering playbook 
that we will publish this year.
    So there is an education component to this. There is a 
sharing of best practices component to this as well. We are 
working on this very hard.
    Sir, with respect to WRDA 2022, a couple things. First of 
all, again, on partnership. I would like to see a 
reauthorization of the Tribal Partnership Program. This came to 
us, it was authorized in 2000; it sunsets in 2024. We have 
completed a number of very good studies under this program. We 
completed one very good construction project up in South 
Dakota. I would like to see Congress reauthorize this program 
so we can take these studies and move them into good 
construction projects.
    I would like to have the ability to assign warrant officers 
and non-commissioned officers to my civil works projects. I 
mentioned the massive workload. Today I have 800 military men 
and women in the Army Corps of Engineers. The rest are very 
talented civilians.
    But I can't bring in all those captains and majors because 
of other priorities for engineer officers elsewhere in the 
Army. But I have non-commissioned officers with degrees in 
project management. I have warrant officers with masters' 
degrees in electrical engineering. I would love to be able to 
assign them to civil works projects. It is the 1956 Flood 
Control Act; it limits me to commissioned officers only. 
Secretary Connor mentioned it. If we could have a discussion 
and maybe gain some flexibility, it is Section 160 of WRDA 
2016, that puts some governance on top of my plant replacement 
improvement program. I have to publish a perspective each year 
for those projects.
    So these are the types of projects where out in the field I 
store equipment, or I have a field office. They are generally 
small projects, $7 million to $8 million. I have not had a 
project approved or we have moved forward on since the 
implementation of this provision.
    I would just like to have the ability, or maybe Secretary 
Connor have an approval level where I could go to him and get 
approval for an $8 million project to replace a building that 
burned down in Portland, for example, this past summer. I would 
like to offer a conversation on that one, sir, and would 
welcome any flexibility we could get.
    Senator Carper. All right, thank you.
    Aside from what you have just said, are there any other key 
issues you would like to see addressed that come to mind in the 
coming WRDA bill? You have touched on a number of them. 
Anything else, anything that you would like to mention?
    General Spellmon. Sir, I will mention one more. We 
mentioned it earlier, the Hurricane, Storm, and Damage Risk 
Reduction System in New Orleans. It is Section 3017 from WRDA, 
going all the way back to WRDA 2018. That allows us to account 
for subsidence and settlement in the levees and the flood walls 
in and around New Orleans. Sir, that authority expires in 2024. 
I think we would like to keep that system intact and keep it 
whole and for Congress to reconsider reauthorization that 
authority as well.
    Senator Carper. OK, good.
    Next question. Again, this would be for you, Mr. Connor. It 
deals with collaboration, collaboration especially with 
stakeholders. Stakeholders and sponsored collaboration with the 
Army Corps of Engineers, as you know, is critical to solving 
today's water resources challenges. It helps to limit the cost 
of missed opportunities, promotes better planning, provides 
better transparency, and results in more fiscally and I think 
environmentally sound projects.
    The Corps unfortunately has been limited in its outreach, 
particularly in disadvantaged communities. In addition, the 
Corps has still not completed implementation guidance on the 
disadvantaged community provisions contained in WRDA 2020.
    Question. First, actually, a two part question. First, when 
do you think we can expect the disadvantaged community guidance 
that Congress has required? And second, what more should the 
Corps be doing to collaborate with non-Federal stakeholders, 
including those in disadvantaged communities? Will you take on 
those two questions, please?
    Mr. Connor. Absolutely, Senator Carper. It is a great 
question. I think it is going to be a priority here now, as I 
committed to in my opening statement, moving forward with the 
guidance and getting the right definitions of disadvantaged 
communities, economically challenged communities. We need to 
just make a decision, and that will set us in a position to 
finish the guidance. Particularly because we have resources in 
the IIJA, specifically the $30 million that was carved out to 
move forward with the investigations and working on projects 
with those marginalized, disenfranchised communities. And then 
the CAP program, the $100 million that was set aside, so that 
we can use those ranges of authorities to work with those 
communities.
    So we have resources now, that is always an issue. They are 
there; we need to put in place the guidance. So that will be a 
priority for me in moving forward on that in the very near 
future.
    With respect to being able to partner and work with these 
communities, a couple of things I will just mention. I will go 
back to looking at comprehensive benefits, which the Corps is 
already doing, but then trying to institutionalize that with 
our agency specific procedures to implement the principal 
requirements and guidelines.
    That is going to be the key. I think that has always been a 
strict look at benefit costs. It has great value. We should be 
assessing the economic costs and benefits of our projects. We 
should be looking at the environmental values aspect, and we 
should also integrate the societal values. And when you are 
just top heavy on the economic benefit, those marginalized 
communities suffer, and they don't compete as well. And we have 
to re-do our criteria in a way that everybody is on board with, 
so we can consider those other factors. We should try and 
quantify costs and benefits as much as possible. But sometimes 
it is a discussion, it is a narrative. We will do our best to 
do both aspects, quantification as well as a discussion about 
those benefits.
    Last, programs like the Tribal Partnership that General 
Spellmon mentioned. Those are specific programs, like the pilot 
projects, that allow us to go work with communities. As I said 
in my confirmation process, it is not about just undertaking 
our projects in a way that doesn't harm those communities, but 
we want to bring the Corps' resources, skills, capabilities, to 
work with those communities and ensure that they get the 
benefits of those activities that so many other communities 
have had over the years.
    Senator Carper. All right, thanks for that.
    I have a third question, and I am going to address this, 
Mr. Connor, to you and to General Spellmon. I think I will ask 
General Spellmon to lead off, we will let you rest for a spell. 
The subject is sea level rise, something near and dear to our 
hearts in the First State. And frankly, a lot of places on the 
East Coast and the Gulf, and even on the West Coast and Great 
Lakes.
    Gentlemen, as you know, as the Senator from the lowest 
lying State, I have already referenced it once today. But sea 
level rise and extreme weather are becoming more and more of a 
cause for concern. Earlier this year, I asked General Graham if 
the Corps accounts for climate change in project design. He 
answered yes.
    It seems, however, that the Corps only designs projects to 
address damage from storm surge. And in a storm situation, 
flooding can have more than one cause. The Corps should 
comprehensively reduce the risk of all flood hazards when it 
designs a project, including climate change, fuel, sea level 
rise.
    My question, starting with you, General Spellmon, and then 
turning to Mr. Connor, given the Administration's priority in 
addressing both the impacts and the root causes of climate 
change, how will the Corps be working to remedy this shortfall 
in its project design?
    General Spellmon.
    General Spellmon. Sir, I will start, and tell you that is 
something that we are working very hard on. General Graham was 
correct; we have been using sea level rise curves in our 
feasibility studies and our projects for the past 12 years. And 
frankly, we have a great climate change tool that DOD has 
accepted for use on all of the installations.
    I would like to see us, and we are working hard on this, I 
will use the example, go back to the hurricane storm damage 
risk reduction system in Louisiana. We used the sea level rise 
curves and climate science in the construction of that project. 
And the Corps has been credited with the performance of that 
structure, along with our great partners in Louisiana, for its 
performance during Hurricane Ida.
    What I am saying here is that while concrete and steel and 
the compacted dirt that protected the city was very, very 
important, I am of the opinion that that system performed even 
better because all of the natural and nature based features 
that the State of Louisiana has been working on, the marsh 
restoration projects, the barrier islands. I think that has got 
to be an important component in our coastal work moving forward 
for the reasons that you said, Senator.
    Senator Carper. Thanks for that.
    Mr. Connor, do you want to add to that, or take away?
    Mr. Connor. I would simply add that in a lot of cases now, 
we are doing these coastal resilience assessments and studies. 
And I think those are great opportunities to integrate that 
risk, to continue to evaluate the risk, and then look at the 
broad array of solutions, that we can enhance the existing 
protections that are already in place. I think that is going to 
be critical.
    I absolutely agree with General Spellmon; the integration 
of natural and nature based features, the lessons we have 
learned of how it works in places where it has been done and 
how we can take that to other communities. And they are 
demanding it. We have communities that are way ahead in their 
views of what we should be doing with natural and nature based 
infrastructure features.
    So these studies present a great opportunity for us to do 
the assessment. We have got the tools as General Spellmon 
noted. It is going to be an ongoing process, even where we have 
done resilience activity to date. We have to constantly assess 
given new threats, and given new opportunities to address those 
threats.
    Senator Carper. All right, thank you.
    I have one more question I want to ask of you, Mr. Connor. 
Then I will give each of you a minute or two to close. You get 
an opportunity to give an opening statement; I like to give the 
opportunity for you to give a little closing statement as well, 
something you want to reemphasize or something you think that 
has been missed that you could comment on.
    Mr. Connor, my last question would be with respect to the 
Corps' budget. As you know, the Congress typically funds the 
Corps' levels above the President's request. For example, I 
think in 2021, the President's request was about just under $6 
billion, I think it was $5.97 billion, to be precise. Congress 
provided $7.8. So that is an increase, probably about a 25 
percent increase above the President's request in fiscal year 
2021.
    While these numbers are large, the Corps has not made a 
significant dent in the project backlog, which is estimated, as 
I mentioned earlier, to be nearly over $100 billion, maybe 
closer to $110 billion. Between the Infrastructure Investment 
and Jobs Act, also known as the bipartisan infrastructure bill, 
annual appropriations added to that additional supplemental 
dollars that the Corps is expected to have somewhere between 
$80 billion and $100 billion to invest over the next 5 years.
    With such a large backlog, how will the Corps balance work 
on backlogged projects while helping communities that have 
newly emerging needs?
    Mr. Connor. It is a complex set of issues that we need to 
deal with, addressing that backlog and moving forward with the 
new protections and the new demands that exist. As you note, we 
do have a significant backlog. I think the figure I saw for 
WRDA 2020 was something in the neighborhood of another $15 
billion. That goes to the ongoing need and maybe even enhanced 
need going forward.
    So I think we have to look at those projects. There is a 
process to continue to look at whether some projects should 
move forward, particularly in the way they were originally 
envisioned. We want to make sure we use this influx of funds to 
complete projects, get them off the books, finish the work that 
we have started. And we want to prioritize the use of projects 
in the future.
    We are always going to look at risk from a safety 
standpoint. We are always going to look at economic 
environmental benefits. There are other needs out there, and 
other demands.
    Also, with respect to the Administration, we are looking at 
resilience, we are looking at environmental justice, and we are 
looking at supply chain as priorities that we need to address. 
So it is going to be a balance of trying to finish projects, 
trying to really assess future risks and moving forward with 
those priorities.
    I do believe that we can make a dent with the resources we 
have. Congress has entrusted us with a lot of resources. I 
think getting back to that execution piece of this, this is 
going to be key, so that you can entrust us with more resources 
moving forward to address these concerns. Because we have a lot 
of work to do, and some of it we don't even know about yet, 
given the new challenges that we are facing.
    Senator Carper. Ok. Thanks for that reply.
    My last thing, this is really giving each of you a minute 
or two, maybe three, to add anything else that you think you 
would like to reemphasize, or something that wasn't raised that 
you would like to leave on the table.
    Mr. Connor, why don't you go first, then we will go to 
General Spellmon.
    Mr. Connor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't have much more 
to add. I am thinking about the points I would like to make. I 
think from my standpoint, moving on from WRDA 2020, there is a 
lot of to-dos still out there. Even when we do guidance, even 
when we finish rulemakings, even when we get those items done, 
then there is the implementation phase from a policy 
perspective. That is going to give rise to a lot more projects 
and activities.
    So we were a little shy here with respect to new 
authorities because I think you have given us lots of tools and 
authorities. We want to continue some of those authorities in 
more long term ways such as mentioned with the Tribal 
Partnership Program. We know that that program is really going 
to take off, that the outreach that has been done by the Corps, 
that we intend to do in the future, not only with Tribes but 
with other communities that haven't long been served by the 
Corps. Those programs are going to take off.
    So I am not suggesting a light touch at all with WRDA 2020. 
There are projects, there are proposals that are identified in 
our 7001 report that are going to be coming to you that you 
already have with the 2021 report. But this is an ongoing 
process, and a backlog will continue to build. But we want to 
make effective use of the resources we have and demonstrate 
that we can execute on the expectations.
    Senator Carper. All right, thank you.
    General Spellmon, any final thoughts you want to share?
    General Spellmon. Senator Carper, first of all, thanks for 
your time today, and that of all the Committee members.
    As Secretary Connor said, this is an historic level of 
investment for the Army Corps of Engineers. We certainly 
appreciate the trust that Congress and the Administration has 
placed in us. But now we have to deliver. We absolutely have to 
deliver on this historic level of investment.
    You have my commitment; we have every tool on the table to 
get these projects on the ground. So whether it is new 
contracting strategies, new acquisition strategies, 
delegations, workload sharing, which we experienced in Delaware 
not too long ago, non-Federal sponsor led work under the 1043 
authority, or any other tool, we are an open book. We want to 
be completely transparent with you and the Committee to help us 
get this work in the ground.
    Senator Carper. Good. Well, thank you for doing double duty 
today, with the House of Representatives infrastructure, the 
oversight committee there, and then for joining us here this 
afternoon.
    I spent a lot of years of my life in the Navy. My dad was a 
chief petty officer for, gosh, over 25, close to 30 years all 
in. I always felt that leadership is the single most important 
ingredient in the success of any organization I have been a 
part of.
    I am encouraged by the leadership we have still in the 
military, and with respect to the Army Corps of Engineers and 
your responsibilities. So thank you both for your willingness 
to sign up to do this work. We look forward to working with 
you.
    The time I spent in the Navy, I was always impressed with, 
some of the finest officers I ever served with were people who 
had been prior enlisted, we called them [indiscernible], 
mustangs. Some of the finest people I served with were folks 
who were non-commissioned officers, including chief petty 
officers like my dad and others. I think you asked for us to 
look at some of the language to see if we might give folks who 
enjoy those ranks some opportunities to make some greater 
contributions. We will take a close look at that.
    This is not the end of the conversation; it is the 
beginning of the conversation. We look forward to continuing 
that conversation, making sure that all this money, all these 
resources that have been appropriated find a good place to go, 
consistent with the guidance we have provided, and that we can 
be proud of that, the implementation that lies ahead.
    With that, we have a little bit of housekeeping, very 
little bit of housekeeping to do in order to close our hearing. 
Senators will be allowed to submit questions for the record 
through close of business on Wednesday, January 26th. And we 
will compile those questions and send them to both of you. We 
ask that you reply to them by Thursday, January 27th. Not 
really. We are going to ask you to respond, we are going to get 
the question back from our Committee by Wednesday, January 
26th, and we are going to give you all the way until February, 
Wednesday, February 9th, in order to reply. We ask that you try 
to be timely in those responses.
    This is important stuff, especially for those of us on the 
coasts of our country. Frankly, Senator Ernst was here talking 
about the needs that they have in Iowa. We have heard from 
folks in Michigan, Alaska, who have a huge interest in the work 
you do. We are anxious to be your partners. Thank you again for 
your leadership and for your testimony today.
    With that, this hearing is adjourned. Thanks very much.
    [Whereupon, at 5:03 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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