[Senate Hearing 117-385]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                       S. Hrg. 117-385

                       THE U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE
                     SERVICE'S PROPOSED 2023 BUDGET

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                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 18, 2022

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                              __________

                                
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
48-881 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2023                    
          
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               COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                  THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West 
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont                 Virginia 
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island         Ranking Member
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts      KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois            CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
ALEX PADILLA, California             ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
                                     DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
                                     JONI ERNST, Iowa
                                     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina

             Mary Frances Repko, Democratic Staff Director
               Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

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                                                                   Page

                              MAY 18, 2022
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware..     1
Capito, Hon. Shelley, U.S. Senator from the State of West 
  Virginia.......................................................     3

                               WITNESSES

Williams, Hon. Martha, Director, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 
  Department of the Interior.....................................     5
    Prepared statement...........................................     7
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Carper...........................................    14
        Senator Capito...........................................    16

                          ADDITIONAL MATERIAL

Articles
    Alaska at center of Trump administration's drive to drill 
      public lands during pandemic...............................    38
    Data contradict common perceptions about a controversial 
      provision of the US Endangered Species Act.................    53
    Climate Change 2022, Impacts, Adaptation and Vulnerability...    59
    King Cove-Cold Bay: Assessment of Non-Road Alternatives......    94
    The Predicted Influence of Climate Change on Lessor Prairie-
      Chicken Reproductive Parameters............................   212
    This study just unsermined a huge myth about the Endangered 
      Species Act, Chelsea Harvey, Washington Post...............   224
Letter to President Biden from the Several undersigned leading 
  philanthropic institutions.....................................   227
World Economic Forum; The Global Risks Report 2022 17th Edition..   231

 
       THE U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE'S PROPOSED 2023 BUDGET

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, MAY 18, 2022

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The committee, met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m. in 
room 406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper 
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
    Present: Senators Carper, Capito, Cardin, Whitehouse, 
Kelly, Padilla, Inhofe, Cramer, Lummis, Sullivan, Ernst.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER, 
            U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

    Senator Carper. Good morning, everyone. I am pleased to 
call this hearing to order.
    Today, we again welcome Martha Williams, Director of the 
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, before our committee to discuss 
President Biden's Fiscal Year 2023 budget proposal for that 
agency.
    We know that budgets are a reflection of priorities. The 
President's most recent budget request includes nearly $2 
billion for the Fish and Wildlife Service, a much-needed 
funding increase that would go a long way to further the 
Service's mission of conserving, protecting, and enhancing our 
Nation's wildlife and habitats.
    This 25 percent increase in funding over 2022 enacted 
levels in President Biden's first budget proposal is in fairly 
stark contrast to the almost 15 percent proposed cuts in 
President Trump's first budget. Providing the agency with more 
secure and robust funding is, in my judgment, certainly 
justified.
    After years of underfunding the Fish and Wildlife Service, 
the agency's mission has never been more important. Why, people 
might ask? Let's just look at the science. In February, the 
United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change 
released a report that I found alarming. It finds that, among 
other perils, climate change continues to cause severe 
biodiversity loss and habitat degradation. We are told that 
this trend is only going to worsen as climate change 
intensifies and its impact puts greater stress on habitats and 
on the species that call them home.
    That is not all. Earlier this year, the World Economic 
Forum states that biodiversity loss is among the top three 
risks to humanity due to irreversible consequences for our 
environment and our economy as well.
    Earlier this week, I had the privilege of touring South 
Bethany Beach with a number of our local leaders. It is one of 
several Delaware beaches severely eroded by storms over the 
past 2 weeks. People travel from all over the world to visit 
our five-star beaches and to view species like piping plovers 
and red knots. The Fish and Wildlife Service plays a critical 
role in preserving these versatile habitats.
    To that end, the President's latest budget proposes nearly 
$600 million for the National Wildlife Refuge System. That is 
about a $79 million increase compared to Fiscal Year 2022 
levels, after several years of relatively flat funding.
    This system consists of, this is interesting to me and I 
hope to others as well, 568 refuges. There is at least one in 
every State and territory. Together, they provide habitat for 
more than 280 threatened and endangered species. Delaware is 
fortunate to boast two national wildlife refuges. One is called 
Bombay Hook, and the other is called Prime Hook, right along 
the Delaware Bay, which are internationally recognized as 
premier birding locations. We are grateful that the President's 
budget prioritizes stewardship of these public lands and 
others.
    In addition to including robust funding for the National 
Wildlife Refuge System, President Biden's budget prioritizes 
species conservation. His budget proposes $356 million for its 
ecological services program to conserve imperiled species, an 
increase of approximately 25 percent over Fiscal Year 2022 
enacted levels.
    The Fish and Wildlife Service would utilize this funding in 
close partnership with private landowners, States, Tribes, 
nonprofit organizations, and other Federal agencies. The 
Service would also use this funding to improve its efficiency 
in reviewing and permitting infrastructure projects, an outcome 
I know we all support.
    While this request represents a healthy increase over 
Fiscal Year 2022 enacted levels for recovering threatened and 
endangered species, we must also acknowledge the decades of 
chronically underfunding the Endangered Species Act.
    The Fish and Wildlife Service has a backlog of 
approximately $49 billion in recovery activities for threatened 
and endangered species. This is likely not a problem that the 
Congress can fix through the annual appropriations process. My 
hope is that our committee can continue to seek out solutions 
to address this backlog over time.
    The President's budget also reflects the urgency of 
addressing climate change and transitioning to a cleaner energy 
future while also protecting wildlife. It calls for nearly $28 
million for activities associated with energy development, 
including $8 million to support the expeditious review and 
permitting of clean energy projects. This investment is 
critical to ensuring that our clean energy projects move 
forward in a way that minimizes the impacts on wildlife.
    When it comes to meeting the President's all-of-government 
climate goals, I am also pleased to see that this budget 
includes more than $16 million to assist in transitioning the 
Fish and Wildlife Services vehicle fleet to zero emissions, not 
overnight, but by 2035.
    Last, I also want to express my strong support for the 
budget's inclusion of the Fish and Wildlife Service's science 
applications program. The request of more than $57 million for 
this non-regulatory program would support the continued 
development of plans with partners to conserve landscapes and 
species across our Nation.
    We look forward this morning to hearing more from Director 
Williams on how the President's 2023 budget would support the 
work she is overseeing, with the help of her team, at the Fish 
and Wildlife Service.
    Before we hear from you, Ms. Williams, we would like to 
hear from our Ranking Member, Senator Capito, for any comments 
that she would like to make. Senator Capito?

        OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, 
          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

    Senator Capito. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank 
you, Director Williams, for being here with us today and your 
recent visit to West Virginia and future visit, we hope. I 
appreciate your coming before the committee today.
    This hearing is particularly important as the committee 
continues to oversee the implementation of the IIJA.
    Last year, I was proud to work with Chairman Carper and my 
colleagues on the committee in developing and reporting surface 
transportation and drinking and wastewater legislation 
unanimously, which were then included as part of the IIJA. If 
implemented as Congress intended, the IIJA will facilitate the 
construction of much-needed energy, industrial, and 
transportation projects across the Country.
    The Service must play a key role in ensuring those projects 
are built in a timely manner. One of the well-known and 
longstanding roadblocks to efficient permitting is the Section 
7 consultation process under the Endangered Species Act. That 
process requires Federal agencies to consult with the Service 
on projects that may affect listed or designated critical 
habitat. The process is a perennial source of delay for 
projects in my home State of West Virginia. I am sure you might 
have had some experience in Montana as well.
    The Service has attributed the Section 7 review and 
consultation backlog solely to funding and staffing shortages, 
but I am not convinced that this is the reason for those 
delays, based on my conversations that I have had with our West 
Virginia agencies. For example, for the past 11 years, the West 
Virginia Department of Highways has fully funded a position at 
that field office and is still experiencing delays and a lack 
of technical assistance from the field office.
    Additionally, the West Virginia Department of Environmental 
Protection is being told that they need to fund four positions 
in order to have their projects reviewed, with no guarantee of 
how much time those consultants would actually spend on West 
Virginia projects.
    Meanwhile, in addition to the positions the Service is 
requiring our State agencies to fund, the Administration budget 
asks for more than 1,000 additional, that is on top of what 
States would pay for, full-time employees compared to last 
year.
    In order to evaluate that request, I think we need to 
review the staff the Service currently has, the number of 
biologists on that staff that conduct consultations, and how 
those staff are distributed across the regional offices, and 
whether the leaders at the Service have directed them to clear 
the existing backlog as an Administration priority. I look 
forward to discussing those issues with you today.
    I also welcome your thoughts on another longstanding issue 
with the Section 7 consultation process, and that is the never-
ending litigation process. For example, the Mountain Valley 
Pipeline now has had two rounds of biological opinions stayed 
or remanded by the Fourth Circuit. If we are going to build 
natural gas and hydrogen pipeline infrastructure to lower 
energy prices for our citizens, particularly those in the 
northeast, and support our allies as they delink their fuel 
supplies from Russia and China, we must have a consultation 
process that works and biological opinions that stand up in 
court. Working with you, Director Williams, I hope we can 
identify efficiency improvements to that process and ways to 
make those documents stronger from attacks.
    As the former director of a State agency yourself, you also 
know firsthand how much expertise State fish and wildlife 
departments have on the species within their borders. I wonder 
if some of the issues with the quality of biological opinions 
can be resolved by a more concerted partnership with our States 
through improved data sharing, increased cooperation, or even 
delegation of review and consultation authority to the State 
experts on the ground.
    Instead of focusing on improvements, so far, I feel like 
the Administration has taken actions which will introduce more 
delays. I raised this issue last week with CEQ Chair Brenda 
Mallory at last week's hearing. The Biden Administration's 
changes to the regulations of NEPA, the Migratory Bird Treaty 
Act, and the Endangered Species Act will make it harder to 
permit and build infrastructure, including those authorized in 
the IIJA.
    An issue that particularly impacts West Virginia is the 
Service's decision to up-list the Northern Long-Eared Bat from 
threatened to endangered. In the listing redesignation, the 
Service admits that bat populations are declining due to 
effects separate and apart from development of infrastructure 
like roads and transmission, namely an invasive communicable 
disease known as white nose syndrome, you are obviously very 
familiar with this, that is spread among the bats, primarily 
when they hibernate in caves.
    That means that broad restrictions to development across 
large swaths of the Country intended to protect the bats as a 
result of their endangered listing will not meaningfully help 
mitigate or prevent the disease in the animals, while the 
endangered label on the bat will not help its future unless the 
Service provides States and projects sponsors alternative 
pathways to mitigating white nose syndrome. This decision will 
have far-reaching implications on our ability as a State to 
move forward with critical projects that will afford West 
Virginians economic opportunities. I suggest we work together 
on a better path that actually protects species as well as 
American livelihoods.
    I thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity.
    Senator Carper. Great to sit here next to you.
    We want to again welcome our witness today. How long have 
you been in this post? How many months has it been?
    Ms. Williams. I haven't been counting, Chairman Carper, but 
I have been in the post since the beginning of this 
Administration, but I was confirmed thanks to this committee 
and your work. I was confirmed, I believe, in February, so 
formally in the post since February.
    Senator Carper. Well, we are glad you are here today. I 
look forward to this hearing very much.
    Just by way of introduction, as a reminder, prior to her 
leadership role at the Fish and Wildlife Service, Ms. Williams 
served as the Director of, as we heard already from Ranking 
Member Capito, the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife, and 
Parks.
    Again, we are happy to see you. Please proceed with your 
statement. We look forward to asking some questions and hearing 
your responses. Thanks so much.

  STATEMENT OF HON. MARTHA WILLIAMS, DIRECTOR, U.S. FISH AND 
          WILDLIFE SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

    Ms. Williams. Thank you, Chairman Carper.
    Good morning, Chairman Carper, Ranking Member Capito, and 
members of the committee. I am Martha Williams, Director of the 
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Thank you for the opportunity 
to testify on the Service's Fiscal Year 2023 budget request.
    The Service collaborates with partners across the Country 
and around the globe to fulfill our mission of working with 
others to conserve, protect, and enhance fish, wildlife, plants 
and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American 
people. The Service's mission emphasizes the importance of 
partnership. Collaboration is key to successful conservation, 
and it is the lens through which I view my work as the 
Service's Director.
    The Service collaborates with partners on conservation in 
many ways. For example, we work with States using a science-
based process to maintain healthy populations of migratory 
waterfowl over North American flyways. We collaborate 
proactively with States, tribes, private landowners, 
conservation groups, and industry to serve at-risk species 
before they require Federal protection.
    We work with interested landowners to restore and conserve 
wildlife habitat on their private lands, and we provide support 
to our international partners to conserve some of the world's 
most iconic wildlife. An example of collaboration that I am 
excited about is the National Fish Passage Program, which got a 
boost through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. We work with 
local communities on a voluntary basis on hundreds of projects 
to remove fish passage barriers and restore natural functions 
to rivers and streams.
    The positive effects of this work are immediate and 
increase with time. They benefit fish populations, ecosystems, 
local communities, and the economy. These are just some 
examples of how the Fish and Wildlife Service employees work 
every day in every State and territory with our partners to do 
great things for the American people.
    The Administration is proposing a budget of $2 billion to 
fund the Service's resource management and conservation 
programs, an increase of $326 million. The budget proposal 
makes important investments to restore and enhance our work 
force and our capacity to be proactive and work with partners. 
I will touch on some of those investments here.
    The Service oversees a network of over 560 national 
wildlife refuges. These important public lands are managed for 
the benefit of fish, wildlife, plants, and their habitats, and 
they provide recreational and educational opportunities to the 
public, economic benefits to the surrounding communities, and I 
believe as we all learned during the pandemic, they provide 
such an important physical and mental health benefit to all of 
us.
    This year's budget request of almost $598 million is the 
largest request ever for the refuge system. The Ecological 
Services Program is a leader in conserving our Nation's 
imperiled species and their habitats, ensuring that sustainable 
populations of fish, wildlife, and plants continue to thrive 
for future generations.
    The budget request proposes about $356 million to implement 
the Endangered Species Act and the other laws that the 
Ecological Services Program implements. The budget supports the 
Administration's efforts to responsibly site, permit, and 
deploy priority infrastructure projects. With an increase of 
almost $41 million for planning and consultation, the Service 
can restore field office capacity and be better positioned to 
facilitate development through timely and effective 
environmental reviews.
    The request provides robust support for migratory birds and 
our fisheries programs, which are so important to the economy 
as well as to overall fish and wildlife populations. Funding 
for the Law Enforcement Program would support efforts to 
investigate wildlife crimes, interdict illegal wildlife 
shipments, facilitate the legal wildlife trade, and deter the 
introduction of invasive species.
    The request also supports adaptive science work, landscape-
level conservation, invasive species control, international 
conservation, and preventing the spread of zoonotic disease.
    Finally, the request also includes a legislative proposal 
known as the Resource Protection Act. This legislation would 
ensure the compensation for damages to Service resources then 
to make sure those are used to repair those resources. We look 
forward to working with any members interested in this 
legislation.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify. If enacted, this 
budget will make a significant difference in our ability to 
conserve our natural resources in collaboration with others for 
the benefit of all Americans.
    I would be pleased to answer any questions that you may 
have.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Williams follows:]
    
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Carper. Thank you, Ms. Williams. Thanks very much 
for joining us. Thanks for your leadership.
    I am pleased that the 2023 budget request includes an 
increase of a little more than 20 percent over the Fiscal Year 
2022 enacted level for the implementation of the Endangered 
Species Act. When the Endangered Species Act is adequately 
funded, it works.
    Unfortunately, the Fish and Wildlife Service has not 
received sufficient funding not just for years, but for 
decades, leaving stakeholders frustrated and many of our 
Nation's most imperiled species vulnerable to extinction. Over 
1,500 species are currently listed, and the Fish and Wildlife 
Service estimates the cost of necessary recovery actions at $49 
billion. That is billion, with a B.
    Question: would you expand for us, please, this morning, on 
the challenges associated with chronic underfunding of the 
Endangered Species Act? How is the Fish and Wildlife Service 
working to creatively address this backlog? Moreover, would you 
elaborate on why the 2023 proposed increase is so important for 
species recovery?
    Ms. Williams. Thank you, Chairman Carper, for your question 
and for your underlying support for recovering imperiled and 
endangered species.
    I couldn't agree more with you that the Endangered Species 
Act has been a success and can work better when the Fish and 
Wildlife Service has the adequate capacity and resources to 
implement it to the best of its ability. What I would argue is, 
with the chronic underfunding, the Fish and Wildlife Service 
has been on its back foot, and we have been on the defense with 
the Endangered Species Act.
    With this proposed budget, we will be able to be more 
proactive, more on our front foot, and to be able to emphasize 
preventing the need to list species, being able to get the 
backlog of listing proposals, and as you State, adequately 
invest in the recovery of the species that did need listing.
    I look forward to, hopefully, this increase, the $17 
million increase in recovery specifically to kickstart those 
recovery efforts, those specific actions that are already in 
recovery plans that, with adequate resources, we can catalyze 
efforts to undertake those recovery efforts and make the 
Endangered Species Act's next 50 years even more successful.
    Senator Carper. Thank you.
    The Fish and Wildlife Service is responsible, as you know, 
for working with other Federal agencies to make sure that 
Federal actions do not jeopardize imperiled species. The 2023 
budget request before us today includes $152.8 million for 
agencies' planning and for consultation activities to allow the 
Service to undertake this responsibility and advance important 
infrastructure projects.
    Would you elaborate for us today on why the 2023 budget 
request for planning and consultation activities is important 
to prevent bottlenecks in the environmental review process? 
This is a really important question. This is an issue that 
comes up again and again, as you know, so I want us to dwell on 
this for a little bit.
    If the Service receives this funding, will it help you more 
expeditiously issue permits for infrastructure projects?
    Ms. Williams. Thank you again for that question, Chairman 
Carper.
    I agree with you that this is a very important question. It 
is a topic that I am paying close attention to, as is all of 
the Service. We are very aware of and appreciate the incredible 
benefits of infrastructure projects, specifically those under 
the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
    At the same time, we recognize that we do not want to be 
the bottleneck, and we want to be able to conserve threatened 
and endangered species and also allow projects to move forward 
expeditiously. I would say that the additional $40 million 
proposed in this budget for planning and consultation, we will 
use and be very careful that the capacity goes to those field 
offices and to those areas that need the capacity the most, so 
that we can break through the backlog and address any 
bottlenecks.
    I would answer that, really, I am thinking of, the Service 
is thinking of this increased funding as allowing us to be more 
proactive, to be creative, and to be responsive. Thank you.
    Senator Carper. Thank you. I am sure we will come back to 
this issue during the course of this hearing.
    But the idea to say we are going to, like in the last 
Administration, call for deep cuts in funding for this agency 
that you lead, and at the same time, we expect you to provide 
better, more expeditious service with respect to permitting, it 
doesn't work. It doesn't work.
    So with that in mind, let me yield to our Ranking Member, 
Senator Capito. Senator Capito?
    Senator Capito. Thank you. Again, thank you for being 
before the committee.
    I want to go back to some of the discussion that I had in 
my opening statement about the concerns, and the Chairman just 
talked about this, on the Section 7 consultations and 
cooperation. It has been brought to our attention that we have 
$640 million worth of projects that have been waiting for 
review from the Service. One of these is the Corridor H 
project, which is a massive four-lane that comes into the State 
and really opens up the State for economic development. Some of 
these projects have been in the queue since 2014 and 2019.
    In response to this, Fish and Wildlife had submitted to our 
DEP a one-page proposal that calls for, I think, kind of 
incredible demands, basically saying that for more than a half 
million dollars, the State of West Virginia could provide Fish 
and Wildlife with four FTEs whose GS pay scales only really 
cover half of what Fish and Wildlife is asking for, because 
this payment would escalate over 5 years to $800,000 a year 
with increase of salaries of 8 percent and an assumption of 23 
to 38 percent overhead.
    I have to ask you, as somebody who has worked at a State 
Agency, how does this, does it make sense to have a proposal 
like this? Why would a State spend $800,000 a year on something 
that the Federal Government is supposed to be providing? Would 
it be better to have the State be able to have the oversight 
with liability protections to be able to be a part of this 
process?
    I was really surprised when I saw this proposal from Fish 
and Wildlife to the State. What do you have to say about the 
proposal, first of all?
    Ms. Williams. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Ranking Member. I 
just became aware of this document last night. I am certainly 
looking into it.
    I think that, while I can't speak to the specifics of the 
document more, I can understand the underlying concerns that it 
would present. One, I think if we work through it, I think it 
can be an opportunity. I agree with you in that I think there 
is always the opportunity for us to work as closely as we can 
with our State partners.
    That said, our focus typically is on threatened and 
endangered species. Often coming from a State fish and wildlife 
agency, we never had adequate resources for non-game species, 
to be honest, or to be fair about it. Nonetheless, I think that 
there is an opportunity for us to work more closely and share 
in responsibility with the States.
    Senator Capito. I would be interested, as you have a chance 
to look at this in more detail, I was really shocked when my 
staff brought it to my attention. I would love if you would 
come to West Virginia. Being a former State agency head 
yourself, to address this massive backlog, I think that would 
be a way for us to help us figure out how to get through these 
delays. Would you be interested in doing that?
    Ms. Williams. Absolutely, Ranking Member Capito. I am 
pleased to say that we have added two biologists to our West 
Virginia field office. I know that you and your staff have 
worked with us so well in trying to increase capacity and 
effectiveness and efficiency there. So I look forward to 
working on that issue with you, as well.
    Senator Capito. I think, you know, as we pass the IIJA, we 
obviously, the longer the delay, the less the money, the supply 
chain is going up; inflation is going up. Everything is going 
to cost more.
    We had a situation where Virginia has the candy darter, 
West Virginia has the candy darter on the endangered species 
list. They had a project in Virginia, they had a conservation 
plan. It was approved in Virginia. We had another project in 
West Virginia that involved the candy darter. They mirrored the 
same exact provisions from the Virginia conservation plan, and 
the West Virginia plan was rejected by the West Virginia 
office.
    What kind of inconsistencies are you finding across the 
Country, and it is very frustrating, especially being from 
neighboring States and like habitats?
    Ms. Williams. Ranking Member Capito, I can understand that 
frustration. In fact, I was on a call, it may have been 
yesterday or the day before, talking about a general habitat 
plan and the need to coordinate habitat conservation plans so 
that we are more consistent. I know there is interest in the 
Service, and I will pursue this further where we are more 
consistent when we are talking about similar species, similar 
types of projects, and similar landscapes.
    Senator Capito. If we are talking about delays and 
bureaucracies and shortages of resources that you have sited, 
it seems to me that if you are dealing with the same species in 
relatively the same type of habitat, that mirroring this just 
makes total sense. It certainly would save a lot of the Fish 
and Wildlife regional or State offices a lot of time and energy 
so they could devote it to future projects.
    Thank you very much. I look forward to seeing you in West 
Virginia.
    Ms. Williams. Thank you.
    Senator Carper. Thank you. You know, it is just a hop, 
skip, and a jump over there. You have been there many times, I 
am sure. It is easy to get there.
    Senator Cardin, please?
    Senator Cardin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Madam Director, 
welcome. Thank you for what you are doing. We appreciate it 
very much.
    I want to start by talking about the Chesapeake Bay; you 
are not going to be surprised to learn about that. We are very 
interested in how Fish and Wildlife will be enhancing 
resiliency in the Chesapeake Bay watershed. We are excited 
about the beneficial use of dredged materials. We saw some at 
Blackwater, but now Midbay on dealing with the challenges in 
the Bay. We have at Blackwater, really exciting things 
happening at Blackwater, trying to preserve its wetlands.
    I want to first start off with the new program, the 
Chesapeake WILD Program that was in this current fiscal year, 
funds were appropriated. I am interested in how you are using 
this to deal with wildlife conservation as anticipated in the 
legislation, which provided for fish and wildlife, habitat, 
climate change, community partnership, public access, water 
quality. I recognize that in the budget cycle, it has been 
difficult to know what we were doing, because the omnibus was 
so late. But we want to make sure that there is constant 
funding for this program, so I am interested in your view as to 
the resources you will need in Fiscal Year 2023.
    Ms. Williams. Thank you, Senator Cardin. I feel at home 
when I hear you pronounce water, so I know I am with a fellow 
Marylander.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Cardin. I feel more comfortable about that, also.
    Ms. Williams. I first want to thank you, though, for your 
leadership with the Chesapeake WILD Program. I think it is an 
example of one of those programs that while we received $4 
million in our first appropriation and that may seem small 
compared to some programs, it is incredibly mighty, and it is 
an example of how we can leverage and build off of that initial 
$4 million investment.
    We are working with the National Fish and Wildlife 
Foundation to deliver those funds on the ground, and I know 
that we received our first proposals in March and expect to 
announce the first set of awards late in the summer. Should 
Congress provide additional funding for this program in Fiscal 
Year 2023, we certainly can support that and think that it 
really makes a difference to the people in the Chesapeake Bay, 
to wildlife, and habitat health. Thank you for your interest in 
that.
    Senator Cardin. We appreciate your help and partnership. We 
might need to get some more specific information from you. I 
know Senator Van Hollen is also very interested in this. We 
might need to have a better understanding as to the resources 
that could be utilized in Fiscal Year 2023, so I would ask your 
cooperation in that regard.
    Ms. Williams. I am happy to do that, Senator Cardin.
    Senator Cardin. Just recently, I filed legislation with 
Senator Portman, bipartisan legislation, for neotropical bird 
reauthorizations at a higher level and at a better mix from the 
point of view of a match to deal with better utilization of 
this program. Since 2002, I think it is, there have been over 
600 projects funded by the Neotropical Bird Program in 36 
countries. It is vital and critical to migratory birds, 
including the very famous Baltimore Oriole.
    Give us your view as to the importance for us paying 
attention to the reauthorization and the funds that are 
available.
    Ms. Williams. Again, Senator Cardin, I can't thank you 
enough for your leadership on the Neotropical Bird Program.
    Yes, it is incredibly important right now, as the Chairman 
opened this hearing in talking about the biodiversity crisis 
that we do face and that it has very much impacted birds. We 
know that we have lost three billion birds. So this program is 
of utmost importance, and I think it demonstrates to all of us 
as Americans how much we all love birds, that it is not a 
partisan issue, and that it is something that I think the 
American public really cares about.
    So, thank you for your leadership in this.
    Senator Cardin. I am going to just mention one other issue, 
and that is an issue that we have not been able to deal with, 
and that is to allow you to recover for those who damage a 
wildlife refuge. Unlike the National Parks Service or NOAA, you 
don't have the authority to assess the fines and use the fines 
from those who violate our refuges.
    We have had legislation on this in the past. I would hope 
that the Administration, I think it is in your budget, I would 
hope that you would be actively engaged and see whether we 
can't get that to the finish line.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Not at all. Thank you for your leadership 
on these issues.
    Before I turn to Senator Inhofe, three billion birds over 
what period of time?
    Ms. Williams. I realized I didn't finish that sentence, 
Chairman Carper, on purpose. I believe in the past decade.
    Senator Carper. Just respond for the record. Thank you.
    Senator Inhofe, welcome.
    Senator Inhofe. Thank you.
    Director Williams, it is no surprise to you that I am going 
to bring up yours and my favorite subject, and that is the 
lesser prairie chicken.
    As you know, the updated population data is a key factor 
when determining if a species should be listed under the 
Endangered Species Act. On March the 15th of 2022, the Western 
Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies announced plans to 
release updated lesser prairie chicken population data in the 
coming months. Director Williams, do you plan to include the 
Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies' most current 
lesser prairie chicken population data in your listing 
decision?
    Ms. Williams. Thank you, Senator Inhofe, for your continued 
interest on this issue. I hope I get to visit with you about it 
more. I never get tired of those visits and talking about all 
of the incredible voluntary efforts that are underway to 
conserve lesser prairie chicken.
    Senator Inhofe. I might add, successful efforts.
    Ms. Williams. Yes, many of them very successful. In fact, 
you know, as we are looking at lesser prairie chicken and, I 
believe as it was in the proposed rule that one of the reasons 
why there are two distinct population segments and why one is 
threatened and one is endangered is those recovery efforts and 
the restoration efforts that have been underway.
    To answer your question, Senator Inhofe, I believe that 
indeed, we did take into account those numbers. The proposed 
rule, I think, shows our responses. Yes, we have taken robust 
public comment and will take those numbers into account.
    Senator Inhofe. I appreciate that. Let me talk fast here to 
get my time to effectively end where I want it, and that is the 
conservation practices have helped to nearly double the total 
lesser prairie chicken population size since 2013. That is 
pretty remarkable. That is, I am sure, something would be now 
on your plate of concern.
    In your response letter to my inquiries regarding your 
proposal to list the lesser prairie chicken under the 
Endangered Species Act, you made it clear it was not necessary 
to perform a Policy for Evaluation of Conservation Effort 
Assessment.
    So, Director Williams, can you provide an update on your 
work with the Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies 
to address conservation concerns with the Candidate 
Conservation Agreement with Assurances, considering you do not 
plan to perform this assessment?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair and Senator Inhofe, when I first 
started in this position, because I had been a member of the 
Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, I was very 
careful not to have direct contact with WAFWA, if you will. I 
would need to look into the answer to your question more, and 
then I will be very careful to be at arms' length with WAFWA 
per se. But I do know that our staff and especially Amy 
Lueders, our Regional Director, has been very involved in the 
CCAA with the Western Association of Fish and Wildlife 
Agencies.
    Senator Inhofe. I always enjoy the idea that we are doing 
something where the current information should be helpful to 
us. When we look and we see that we have had that kind of a 
success over that period of time, not all of them have that. 
So, I look forward to keeping that on the table, but not 
waiting for another meeting to come along, because you know of 
my interest in this issue.
    Ms. Williams. Thank you, Senator Inhofe, and thank you also 
to all of those who worked so hard in your State to conserve 
lesser prairie chickens.
    Senator Inhofe. Successfully.
    Ms. Williams. Successfully.
    Senator Inhofe. Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you.
    Senator Carper. Thanks, Senator Inhofe.
    Senator Whitehouse, then followed by Senator Cramer. If she 
is able to return, Senator Ernst would be next.
    Senator Whitehouse?
    Senator Whitehouse. Welcome, Director Williams. Thank you 
for being here, back in front of the committee. It is good to 
see you.
    I wanted to talk to you for a moment about zettajoules. A 
joule is the unit of measure of heat energy. A zettajoule is 
that measure with 21 zeros behind it. It is a really, really, 
really big number with 21 zeros behind it. It is so big, that 
to give it a more concrete example, the entire energy use and 
consumption of the human species on the entire planet adds up 
to one-half of a zettajoule.
    So our fossil fuel energy is less than one-half of a 
zettajoule, and it is less than one-half of all of our energy 
production and consumption. For the price of that less than 
half zettajoule of human energy production, we have created an 
environment in which we are dumping 14 zettajoules, so 30 times 
as much, heat into our oceans. It is the equivalent of setting 
off multiple Hiroshima-sized atomic bombs in our ocean every 
single second. It is warming at a colossal, geologic level. We 
are not paying anywhere near enough attention to what this 
means for our oceans.
    But with that kind of upheaval happening in the oceans, it 
makes it increasingly important that the Fish and Wildlife 
Service pay adequate attention to what is going on to saltwater 
fish and ocean wildlife, as opposed to just freshwater fish and 
terrestrial wildlife.
    So, I would like to ask you what you are doing to make sure 
that, in light of that kind of change happening in our marine 
environments, your organization will continue to expand its 
focus on saltwater fish and coastal and marine environments.
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair and Senator Whitehouse, thank you 
for that question. I have to say, I share your concern about 
the unprecedented challenges facing our oceans and our coasts. 
There are a number of different ways that the Fish and Wildlife 
Service, even through our 2023 budget request, has asked to 
increase and pay more attention to these issues. We did request 
a $2.3 million increase for the coastal program. We also asked 
for a $2 million increase in the Coastal Barrier Resources Act.
    On top of that, I would like to say that we, I believe, are 
working very well and closely with our sister agency at NOAA 
and understand these shared responsibilities that we have on 
these unprecedented challenges.
    I would love to add, too, Senator Whitehouse, that while we 
only flew in and out of your State, I was able to go to 
Connecticut with the Secretary and see the benefit of 
restoration investment in saltwater and salt marshes and to see 
the intricate balance that we need to address.
    Those are just some examples, Senator, of where the Fish 
and Wildlife Service can help, but I am always happy to work 
with you and talk about what else we can do to support and 
address this unprecedented challenge that is before us.
    Senator Whitehouse. Good. Well, thank you.
    I think the daily temperature would probably be in the 
hundreds of degrees in our terrestrial States if it weren't for 
the ocean providing this enormous amount of cooling work that 
it has done to take some of the sharp edge off of the climate 
challenge. I think something like 90 percent of the excess heat 
that fossil fuels have generated for our planet have been 
actually absorbed by the oceans, so we don't experience them in 
the atmosphere.
    But the damage that causes to the oceans is profound. It 
ought to send us a signal about the kind of damage we are doing 
to our planet by continuing to recklessly burn fossil fuels and 
creating these massive, massive upheavals in the basic 
operating systems upon which human life depends.
    Thank you.
    Senator Carper. Our next colleague is Senator Cramer. He is 
going to be followed by Senator Padilla on WebEx. We have been 
joined by Senator Lummis. Welcome.
    Senator Cramer, you are on.
    Senator Cramer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ms. 
Williams, for being here.
    Would it be safe to say that NEPA compliance is a really 
high priority for this Administration, particularly for local 
communities, stakeholders, others, to provide input on Federal 
decisions?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, Senator Cramer, that is a fair 
question, and I would think yes.
    Senator Cramer. I think so, too. Similarly, considering 
that the first Administration priority that you referenced in 
your opening statement is America the Beautiful or 30X30, would 
you say that is also a high priority?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, Senator Cramer, yes. The America 
the Beautiful and the fundamental components of it and this 
collaborative, community, voluntary approach is very important.
    Senator Cramer. So, does the Administration plan on 
following the NEPA process for 30X30 for implementing it, 
carrying it out?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, Senator Cramer, I am sure, on 
specific projects that trigger NEPA, indeed, we will follow the 
law.
    Senator Cramer. Now, this is one big Executive Order, 
30X30. Why wouldn't that trigger NEPA when we are talking about 
tripling the protected acres in the United States? Wouldn't 
that be a pretty obvious trigger for a NEPA process or some 
sort of comprehensive review, programmatic review?
    Ms. Williams. Senator Cramer, that is certainly not within 
my purview at the Fish and Wildlife Service. I think NEPA 
really goes to Council on Environmental Quality, and I defer to 
their wise counsel.
    Senator Cramer. I just sent a letter to them, so I will 
look forward to that. Thank you. It is signed by some other 
people in the room.
    As you know, since I came to Congress in 2013, I have heard 
from literally hundreds of North Dakota landowners that are 
encumbered with Fish and Wildlife Service Waterfowl Protection 
Area easements. Their experience has been disastrous through 
Democratic administrations and Republican administrations 
alike, almost equally, I would say. They have had their private 
property rights trampled on, the Service not living up to its 
contractual agreements, using confrontational enforcement 
methods like showing up armed, with body armor on.
    During both our private meeting and your nomination 
hearing, we discussed the enforcement of WPA easements. You 
stated that you would work with landowners to ``get this issue 
right.''
    Since your nomination process, I have continued to work on 
the issue, as well. I introduced legislation to prohibit the 
Service from entering into a conservation easement of greater 
than 50 years. We want to give owners of existing easements the 
opportunity to renegotiate, renew, or even buy out their 
easement.
    My question to you then, is, since you have been confirmed, 
what have you been doing to work on remedying my problem, since 
I have translated it to your problem?
    Ms. Williams. Senator Cramer, I have been working 
diligently on this issue, as have many of our staff. We have 
put, I have somewhere here, I think over, just many hours 
addressing this issue.
    What we have done since I have talked to you, and I know 
that others in the Administration also have gone to visit you, 
we have done a number of things. One, we are finalizing a 
Service Easement Policy and Handbook to address any of the past 
issues you may have identified with how we enforce our 
easements. For example, now we have only our refuge staff, not 
Office of Law Enforcement, go to meet with landowners. We are 
working through this handbook to make very clear how we want to 
administer these easements, which I think we do with many 
landowners, very successfully with many, although I understand 
your concerns.
    In addition to that, I think we have made progress in these 
pre-1976 mapping efforts. I know that over 250 objections we 
have addressed, and we have changed many of those maps. We have 
been pursuing, as you had worked on, this appeal policy that 
goes through three steps: the refuge, the regional director, 
and then to me.
    But I am certainly very committed to this issue and working 
with you on it and want to address your concerns.
    Senator Cramer. Have you talked to any landowners affected 
by an appeal that has gotten to the director level, either 
previously or recently? I am just seriously interested.
    Ms. Williams. Senator Cramer, meaning, have I met with them 
one-on-one?
    Senator Cramer. Yes, or made a phone call or taken up an 
appeal personally, because it does get to your level.
    Ms. Williams. Yes, Senator Cramer. Once it goes through the 
refuge manager, the regional director, which many of them are 
addressed at those levels, the ones that do come to me, I have 
not picked up the phone, nor have I been asked for meetings. 
But I would be happy to work with you, and happy to work with 
landowners.
    Senator Cramer. We might want to dig into that a little 
more specifically, maybe privately, at some point, just because 
I don't know of a single appeal that has ever been upheld on 
behalf of the landowner. So the process may be better, but I 
don't know of any. That is not to say there hasn't been one, 
but I don't know of any.
    Ms. Williams. Senator Cramer, I can assure you that we have 
changed, through the appeal process, the easements and the 
delineation, some of them have changed, and we have definitely 
responded.
    Senator Cramer. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Thank you. I think we are going to be 
joined by Senator Padilla by WebEx. Senator Padilla, are you 
out there?
    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I am here.
    Senator Carper. Welcome.
    Senator Padilla. Director Williams, I was glad to see that 
the Fiscal Year 2023 budget includes increased funding for so 
many critical conservation programs, like the Cooperative 
Endangered Species Conservation Fund for Ecological Services, 
that supports efforts to prevent Endangered Species Act listing 
of species. I think it is critical that all of our Federal 
agencies are well-equipped to protect threatened and endangered 
species.
    While the Fish and Wildlife Service is the primary agency 
charged with conserving fish, wildlife, plants, and their 
habitats, I also respect that you work collaboratively with 
other agencies who have their own important roles in recovering 
threatened and endangered species. In fact, the Endangered 
Species Act requires other land management agencies to carry 
out programs to conserve listed species.
    That is why I am also pushing for increased funding at the 
Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management for programs 
related to threatened and endangered species conservation 
programs.
    All of that to say the following: in my home State of 
California, we have a significant amount of Federal land that 
is managed by the Forest Service and BLM that is home to 
numerous listed species.
    My question, Director Williams, is this: can you talk for a 
minute about how Fish and Wildlife Collaborates with other 
agencies like BLM and Forest Service to better conserve and 
restore listed species and their habitat?
    Ms. Williams. Thank you for that question, Senator Padilla. 
Indeed, that is a priority for me and for this Administration, 
for the Interior Department, and for the Fish and Wildlife 
Service. I would say that it is an area of focus where I have 
worked closely with the bureau chiefs, whether it is the Park 
Service at BLM, with other agencies, USDA, I work with them 
very closely, and I think that it is incredibly important.
    In fact, I think one of the hallmarks of this 
Administration is that we have worked through some challenging 
issues, and we have hit them head-on.
    I also agree with you in that I think this has been an 
opportunity for the Endangered Species Act, were we to have the 
capacity and adequate resources, we can be more proactive in 
our administration of Section 7(a)(1) and 7(a)(2) of the 
Endangered Species Act and be more proactive in how we work 
with other agencies in consultation and on their efforts on 
their land.
    It is of utmost importance. We are doing it, and also, I 
think it is an area where we can do more.
    Senator Padilla. Great. As a followup to today, not to 
answer right now, but I would love to also hear what else 
Congress can do to support you and other agencies in these 
efforts.
    But in my time remaining I did want to raise one other 
specific issue, and that is I am pleased to see Service's 
attention to the Lake Tahoe Region in the Fiscal Year 2023 
budget, particularly the work you are doing to present the 
introduction and expansion of aquatic invasive species and to 
conserve native species like the Lahontan cutthroat trout.
    In addition to protecting Lake Tahoe from the threat of 
wildfires, removing and preventing aquatic invasive species in 
Lake Tahoe is one of the highest ecological priorities for the 
area. As you know, the Federal Government owns and manages 
approximately 78 percent of the land within the Tahoe 
watershed, making Federal involvement in the region critical. 
We had a success in response to the zebra mussels threat in 
2009 because of the successful watercraft inspection programs 
that were implemented.
    So, the question is, how will the Service's budget request 
buildupon the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law's investments in 
invasive species management and continue to implement 
initiatives to fight invasive species in Lake Tahoe and protect 
native species?
    Ms. Williams. Thank you, Senator Padilla, for your interest 
in the Lake Tahoe region and in the leadership that you have 
shown on this issue so far.
    As you noted, the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law is terrific 
investment in this region and one that we are deploying 
strategies to really prevent the introduction and spread of 
aquatic invasive species. I have long been aware of and have 
followed the Lake Tahoe aquatic invasive species management 
plan. When I was in Montana, we closely followed the efforts 
that Lake Tahoe had undertaken to try to prevent invasive 
mussels there.
    So the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law allows Fish and 
Wildlife Service to really work and dig in and partner with our 
States and Tribes in this area, especially for Fiscal Year 
2023.
    I appreciate your leadership, and I think this is an 
important area, and one I think we can all, working together, 
make such a difference, especially in preventing the spread of 
invasive species.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you very much. I am looking forward 
to our followup. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Senator Padilla, thanks for joining us 
today. I am going to slip out and take a phone call.
    Senator Lummis, you are recognized, and I will be right 
back. Thank you. Thanks for joining us.
    Senator Lummis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is good to see 
you again, Director Williams. During your confirmation hearing, 
I used the entirety of my time to visit with you about the 
Greater Yellowstone Grizzly. I am going to start with a 
question about that again today because it is so critical to my 
State.
    My first question is, will the Service follow the statutory 
deadlines set by the ESA to respond to Wyoming's Greater 
Yellowstone grizzly delisting petition within 12 months, with a 
status review and recommendation? These timelines are really 
important to us.
    Ms. Williams. Senator Lummis, thank you for that question. 
I enjoyed visiting with you on this issue. It is one that is 
very near and dear to my heart, as well. I very much appreciate 
the efforts of your State and the leadership they have shown, 
especially recently with grizzly bear recovery efforts.
    We did receive, the Fish and Wildlife Service did receive a 
petition from the State of Wyoming, as you mentioned. We also 
received one from the State of Montana and one from the State 
of Idaho. They are similar, but not entirely the same, no 
surprise there, and we are currently working on all three of 
these petitions. I am certainly aware of the deadlines that the 
Endangered Species Act sets out.
    Senator Lummis. The reason for my asking the question, of 
course, is that the Service has already missed an initial 90-
day deadline. If you are trying to bundle our petition with 
Montana and Idaho, I want to encourage you to respond to 
Wyoming's petition alone, and on its own merit. Because doing 
them together will slow things down for us so incredibly and 
make it even more difficult for us to address the ongoing 
issues, as this issue is slow-walked and not dealt with in a 
manner that I believe would be contemplated under the Act.
    Is it your intention to address them all three together, or 
are you willing to address the Wyoming petition as a 
standalone?
    Ms. Williams. Senator Lummis, I don't think I can answer 
that perfectly for you. I know that in our regional office, 
they are working on this, and I have not been engaged at the 
moment, nor should I be in that it is a scientific review at 
this point, other than I know that they are working on these.
    I understand your request, and it is something that I will 
ask, and I can go back and look at. I understand your request 
also because I think the issues are somewhat similar in the 
three States, and yet, they are distinct. I think that, as you 
look at the grizzly bear recovery amongst all three States in 
the lower 48, they are complicated and maybe different than 
just Wyoming's petition alone.
    I hear your request and will look into it.
    Senator Lummis. OK, thank you. Well, the issue, the 
geographic area, the geography around Yellowstone, does tend to 
keep grizzly bears within certain areas from which they do not 
stray. Sometimes, they don't go into the other States adjacent 
because of simple geography. So, please, I implore you to 
respond to Wyoming's petition alone and on its own merits.
    OK, my next question is similar to Senator Cramer's. That 
is, people in Wyoming are concerned about this 30X30 plan. Of 
course, NEPA requires that any major Federal action undergo 
analysis. Do you believe that 30X30 should undergo NEPA 
analysis?
    Ms. Williams. Senator Lummis, as I answered to Senator 
Cramer, and I mean to be consistent, I think that is a question 
more for the Council on Environmental Quality than for me.
    What I can say, too, is that I view the America the 
Beautiful Initiative, and if you look at its underlying 
principles, it sets out principles, it sets out a way of 
undertaking actions, and any specific actions that the Fish and 
Wildlife Service would undertake as a result of it, I am sure, 
that trigger NEPA, we would do so.
    An example of what the Fish and Wildlife Service already 
did in the America the Beautiful, I think, it views or 
amplifies is our Partners for Fish and Wildlife work. I don't 
think the America the Beautiful changes that work. It only, I 
think, amplifies and encourages a way of collaborative, locally 
led voluntary conservation.
    Senator Lummis. Mr. Chairman, can I have a quick followup? 
I know I am running over.
    Senator Carper. No, no, you are fine.
    Senator Lummis. OK. It would be so helpful for the people I 
represent to have a legally cited explanation for why 
potentially changing the use of hundreds of millions of acres 
is not a major Federal action. When an initiative is announced 
that is hugely consequential for the west, yet it doesn't have 
the normal framework that is used to have interaction and 
public input and dialog in a State like mine that is half 
Federal land, it is scary.
    So, how can we get something in writing? Should I ask CEQ? 
Am I asking the wrong person today?
    Ms. Williams. Senator Lummis, what I would say, what I can 
answer is, I would be more than happy to work with you and the 
State of Wyoming so that we can hear from people. We want to be 
transparent. I am happy to address any concerns and 
opportunities that there are around that, so I would be willing 
to work with you on this and in Wyoming specifically.
    Senator Lummis. Thanks, Director Williams. It is a thing 
that people fear in Wyoming. You hate to see, when you have 
this grandiose, aspirational program, America the Beautiful, 
and the American people are afraid of it, then there is a 
disconnect that we need to resolve. Thank you.
    Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Senator Carper. Thank you so much.
    I have several more questions I would like to ask. We may 
be joined by Senator Sullivan and a couple of others, but we 
are at least halfway home right now.
    My next question would be to deal with Fish and Wildlife 
Service's collaborative nature. During your visit to Delaware 
last year, thank you for coming, a recollection came back, 
actually, before you had been confirmed, as I recall.
    During your nomination hearing, we talked a good deal about 
the Fish and Wildlife Service's collaborative conservation 
efforts. Specifically, we discussed how the Fish and Wildlife 
Service is working with partners to prevent species like the 
salt marsh sparrow from requiring protections under the 
Endangered Species Act. This is not the only way the Service 
works collaboratively with partners, as part of a team.
    As I like to say, teamwork makes the dream work. I know the 
Fish and Wildlife Service, under your leadership, really has 
embraced this mantra.
    Would you just elaborate for us on how the Fish and 
Wildlife Service is working collaboratively with a diverse 
suite of partners, and how the 2023 budget request supports 
this important work?
    Ms. Williams. Thank you for that question, Senator Carper. 
I think our shared interest in teamwork makes our dream work. 
It is exactly why I feel like I am in this position right now, 
thanks to your interest and leadership.
    So, yes, indeed, the Fish and Wildlife Service, we view our 
work across the board through this lens of partnership and 
collaborative work because it is the only way for us to achieve 
real conservation success. The examples are myriad and are 
littered throughout the Service and our programs, as it should 
be.
    An example, I think, that I had mentioned earlier, is our 
Fish Passage Program and the investment in that program. Those 
are, all of those projects, every single one of them, are a 
product of numerous partnerships, leveraging money, and using 
the Fish and Wildlife Service engineering technical expertise 
and planning to support a community and projects.
    I can think of our Partners for Fish and Wildlife program, 
which is all about collaborative work. I can think about 
visiting with you to Prime Hook and our coastal program, and 
our migratory bird program, our international program, our law 
enforcement program. Really, every program that we have is 
infused with this desire to be collaborative and to leverage 
the resources available to deliver conservation on the ground.
    Senator Carper. We have been joined by a couple of our 
colleagues. They came in just at the same time. Who would be 
next? Senator Sullivan and Senator Kelly, thank you for joining 
us. If you can stay, we would be grateful. If you can't, we 
understand. Senator Sullivan, are you ready? You are always 
ready.
    Senator Sullivan. I will defer to my colleague from Arizona 
if he wants to go. I know he is always a very busy man.
    Senator Kelly. Well, thank you, and thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Sure.
    Senator Kelly. Ms. Williams, thank you for being here 
today.
    I have a question about the Mexican gray wolf listing. Last 
week, the Service finalized revisions to the management 
regulations for the Mexican gray wolf in Arizona and in New 
Mexico. As you probably know, the revised management plan has 
left some ranchers and some landowners concerned that this 
could lead protected wolf populations to grow significantly, 
yet others have raised concerns that the protections have not 
gone far enough.
    Ms. Williams, what can you share about the process the FWS 
undertook to update the Mexican gray wolf management 
regulations? In particular, can you discuss how the FWS engaged 
with animal protection advocates and ranchers in making the new 
determination?
    Ms. Williams. Senator Kelly, thank you for that question. I 
can appreciate it is a topic that is top of mind in your State 
and New Mexico. Our team working on Mexican gray wolves or 
Mexican wolves are really terrific, and they are so committed 
to what they do. They understand that on the ground these 
recovery efforts do have impacts to ranchers, to the 
communities, and yet, that their work is scrutinized well 
beyond those in your State and in New Mexico.
    So, all of our work, frankly, on wolves, regardless of the 
State or the species of wolf, we know there is intense interest 
and scrutiny. What I can say specifically to answer your 
question is, I know that our region and our staff really try to 
undertake the most robust, public process they could in getting 
to this decision, But I recognize that we can't make everybody 
happy, and probably that there aren't any perfect answers. But 
they are trying hard to address all of the comments and 
concerns that come in, and trying to have a robust process 
where people can feel heard.
    Senator Kelly. So your understanding is that Fish and 
Wildlife did do a robust engagement with both ranchers and 
animal protection advocates?
    Ms. Williams. My understanding, Senator, is yes. I don't 
know that the outreach was necessarily targeted, but I know 
that we engaged with any group that wanted to.
    Senator Kelly. Well, thank you. I have a couple more 
minutes here.
    Ms. Williams, I understand that in February, the Fish and 
Wildlife Service began settlement proceedings in an attempt to 
resolve litigation related to regulatory actions taken by the 
Fish and Wildlife Service to open up some Federal refuges to 
hunting and fishing. Understanding that there is ongoing 
litigation, is there anything you can share about why fish and 
wildlife entered into these settlement discussions, and what 
you hope to see as an outcome?
    Ms. Williams. Senator Kelly, thank you for that question. 
This is an issue that I am happy to address and is also top of 
mind. First, I just want to say that this Administration, the 
department, the Fish and Wildlife Service and me, as a hunter 
and angler myself, we are absolutely committed to providing 
hunting and angling opportunities on our national wildlife 
refuges. That commitment has not changed.
    What did come in is that we are keeping abreast of the 
science that does demonstrate the impacts of lead on the 
environment to wildlife and to people, and then we were sued on 
increased opportunities and did enter into discussions.
    What I can say is that we have not made a decision going 
forward on how we use public opportunities and lead ammunition 
and tackle. We already, at the Service, do not use lead 
ammunition and tackle in our own management activities. So 
really, this is talking about waterfowl, already don't use lead 
ammunition. This is talking about those opportunities for 
hunting and fishing outside of management activities and 
waterfowl hunting.
    So, anything that we might do in the future to address use 
of lead on refuges, we would do in a public fashion and would 
also consult with you. It is something that we are thinking 
about, we know the science demonstrates a need to address. At 
the same time, we will look into this and address it in a 
collaborative and public fashion.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Ms. Williams.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Senator Kelly, I know you have a busy 
morning. Thanks for making time to join us for this hearing. 
Senator Sullivan, good to see you. I am just admiring that tie 
you are wearing. You look so natty today.
    Senator Sullivan. You, too. It is my Navy tie.
    Director Williams, thank you. Thanks for visiting Alaska. I 
am going to ask you about your trip. Did you make it to the 
North Slope, by the way, with Secretary Haaland? You were in 
those meetings, too?
    Ms. Williams. Yes, Senator Sullivan. I have been to Alaska 
before, but I do have to say, it was in incredible trip, and I 
am very grateful to have gotten up to Utqiagvik.
    Senator Sullivan. Good. Well, I am grateful too. I really 
am grateful that you got out there. I know I had staff up 
there. Unfortunately, I couldn't make that.
    I want to talk about Willow, which I am sure you have heard 
about. You might remember, you and I talked a lot about it 
during your confirmation process. It is an energy project that 
has literally been permanent since back to the Clinton years. 
It is not really controversial. The Obama administration 
permitted it; the Trump Administration finalized it.
    Now, with the need for more energy, particularly given the 
Russian invasion of Ukraine and the impacts on our Country, 
there has been a commitment, directly, actually, from President 
Biden to me and Senator Murkowski when I addressed this issue 
in the Oval Office with him last year around this time. It has 
got the full support of the community in Utqiagvik, as you 
know, AFN, Alaska Federation of Natives. This is as widespread 
support as possible. All of the unions, national unions, have 
weighed in the commitment that I was understood very recently, 
I see that a Biden Administration official said they are going 
to make this supplemental EIS by the end of this quarter. That 
is still on time.
    But you guys actually have a role to play on the biological 
opinion, the bi-op. Not under you, but the Fish and Wildlife is 
infamous for using its entire statutory limit deadline for 
slow-rolling BLM on some of these issues. I am not saying you 
have done it, but that is a history.
    Can you commit to me that the Fish and Wildlife Service 
will not use any stall tactics to further delay the Willow 
Project? These are hardworking men and women in my State. This 
project will create thousands of jobs. We have already missed 
three construction seasons. The reason for this commitment by 
the end of the quarter, from the President and his team, is to 
make sure we don't miss another construction season. People 
need to work.
    Can I get your commitment on that bi-op? I know you are 
tracking it closely.
    Ms. Williams. Senator Sullivan, first, I just want to thank 
you for your home State hosting us in such a warm, welcoming 
fashion.
    Senator Sullivan. They are great people. That is why I get 
angry in this committee, because unfortunately, a lot of the 
Biden Administration officials and decisions are crushing my 
great people, but I am glad you saw them. They are wonderful.
    Utqiagvik, as you saw, is very pro-resource development. I 
was shocked by Deb Haaland's record of decision 72 hours after 
she got back from Utqiagvik saying the people wanted to shut 
down NPRA, don't even get me going on that. They are great 
people. I am glad you agree.
    Ms. Williams. So, Senator Sullivan, yes, I would never 
expect the Fish and Wildlife Service to slow-walk anything. I 
know that we are a cooperating agency with BLM on this project.
    Senator Sullivan. Right, but you can delay it if we don't 
get the bi-op decision in a timely fashion.
    Ms. Williams. I can commit to the Fish and Wildlife Service 
working expeditiously and always within the law on the 
consultation here. I hear you and understand its importance.
    Senator Sullivan. Great. It is not just important to me; 
the President of the United States made a commitment to me and 
Senator Murkowski and our late, great departed Congressman, Don 
Young. So it is important to us, important to all the unions, 
important to the Native people.
    The President's commitment is on the line. The integrity of 
the President of the United States directly, not one of his 
staffers, not one of his cabinet members, the President. So, I 
hope we can all commit to that.
    Let me just ask you, I am going to put a picture up. That 
is you, actually. You remember that? That is at Coal Bay. That 
is Deb Haaland, and that is Director Williams right there.
    Mr. Chairman, if it is OK, I am going to go a little long 
on this question, but it is a really important question, if you 
don't mind.
    Director Williams, that is you at Coal Bay. You are going 
up that ladder. You know the issue I am going to raise, this is 
a very important issue, again, of the King Cove Road, which 
again, has taken on gigantic symbolism in my State. Again, 
Native people being harmed by their own Federal Government.
    There have been 157 medevacs in the 8 years since Sally 
Jewell coldly rejected the 11-mile, single lane gravel road 
that King Cove and the Native community there has been trying 
to get done for 30 years.
    Eighteen deaths have been associated with the lack of land 
access, 18, which is why in a hearing I held on the Commerce 
Committee in 2017 when I chaired the Oceans and Fisheries 
Subcommittee, the Commandant of the Coast Guard said, I cannot 
foot-stamp loudly enough of the critical need for this 11-mile 
stretch of road to provide the lifeline that this community 
needs for their life. This is the Commandant.
    As you know, the brave men and women of the Coast Guard 
have to fly those very dangerous missions. That picture depicts 
you climbing the ladder at the Coal Bay Dock. If a plane cannot 
land in King Cove, which is often the case, 100 days out of the 
year, they usually have horrible weather, you probably saw 
some, that they can't do rescue missions. So, this would be the 
equivalent of someone being medevaced two and half hours from 
King Cove to Coal Bay to the big airport at Coal Bay.
    I mention that because, could you imagine if that was snowy 
or freezing weather, or you were 8 months pregnant or in 
terrible health or a senior, to get up that ladder? You did it. 
It looks like it was a nice day there, but it is hard to do, 
even on a nice day.
    So, what were your impressions? You want to talk about 
great people; Utqiagvik has great people, the King Cove people 
are just the best. They are incredible.
    By the way, they are all veterans, Mr. Chairman. All of 
these Native communities have the highest rates of military 
service of any ethnic group in the Country, of Alaska Natives 
and lower 48 Indians, so patriotism runs so deep in these 
communities.
    But what were your impressions, and are you getting ready 
with the Secretary to make a recommendation to finally, 
finally, after 30 years, support a simple, single lane gravel 
road between King Cove and Coal Bay, so that if you are 
pregnant at 9 months and there is a medevac, you don't have to 
climb up that ladder?
    Ms. Williams. Senator Sullivan, thank you for that 
question. I understand the importance of this issue. I know 
that you care very deeply about it.
    Senator Sullivan. Everybody in Alaska does. It is very 
interesting. Democrat, Republican, Native, non-Native, if you 
ask the average Alaskan citizen, what do you think about the 
King Cove Road? Everybody will know what it is, and that is out 
on the Aleutian Island chain, as you know, way the heck out 
there.
    Ms. Williams. Well, I think a few things in your question, 
one, I want to be very polite and respectful, but I am glad 
that I got to take my Xtratufs and that they made it into the 
photo. Sorry, I just had to say that.
    Senator Sullivan. Hope those were made in America, not the 
China version.
    Ms. Williams. So, the photo, and I am very much glad that I 
got to go to King Cove, go to Coal Bay, and indeed, climb on 
that ladder. A couple of thoughts: one, yes, the value of going 
to the community and hearing from the community. And I would 
add the value for me personally and for the Service in going 
there with this Secretary of the Interior and listening with 
her and trying to listen in new ways. Also to see a community, 
just how moving it was for them to see a Native American 
Secretary of the Interior for the first time, and thus the 
ability----
    Senator Sullivan. Well, I hope this Native American 
Secretary of the Interior treats the Native people of my State 
with respect. So far, with all due respect to Secretary 
Haaland, she hasn't been doing that. It is great that she has 
that background, but the true test of how she cares about the 
Native people is the actions she is going to take. This is a 
big test; so is Willow.
    Ms. Williams. So Senator Sullivan, then, to the question, 
one, as you know, this is an ongoing litigation. But with going 
there, I know and saw firsthand both mine, but especially the 
Secretary's interest in this, a recognition of the challenges 
that King Cove continues to face and the need to continue to 
see a balanced path. Because it is an ongoing litigation, I can 
answer that I, and I believe that the Secretary remains open to 
having all options on the table.
    Senator Sullivan. Mr. Chairman, if I may, and I am sorry. 
This is a really important question.
    Senator Carper. We are going to have to wrap up very soon, 
please.
    Senator Sullivan. My final question: the Secretary said she 
was going to go to King Cove. She said she would make her 
decision on whether to support the litigation after her trip.
    The trip took way too long, in my view, but she finally 
made it out there, and again, I appreciate you going, too. I 
hope you are not using the excuse of ongoing litigation to not 
make a decision on whether you support the road in the 
litigation. That was the whole purpose of her trip.
    Ms. Williams. Senator Sullivan, I think I am answering you 
sincerely in saying that the Secretary remains open or wants to 
have all options on the table.
    Senator Sullivan. OK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Director 
Williams. Thanks again for going to Alaska. I really appreciate 
it.
    Senator Carper. I have maybe one or two other quick 
questions, and then we will let you go. The Lacey Act in 
interState commerce in injurious species is what I want to ask 
about.
    The Fish and Wildlife Service, as you know, has authority 
under the Lacey Act to prohibit the importation and some 
transport of certain types of wildlife that may be injurious to 
humans. This authority is important to protect our Nation from 
high-risk species that may cause harm to us and to other 
creatures.
    However, the courts have recently ruled that the Lacey Act 
does not allow the Fish and Wildlife Service to regulate 
interState commerce in injurious species, notwithstanding 
decades of generally accepted practice, during which the Fish 
and Wildlife Service has exercised this authority. The budget 
requests mentions that this court decision has created 
challenges for the Service.
    Could you elaborate for us about on why it is important for 
the Fish and Wildlife Service to regulate interState commerce 
with respect to injurious species? Is there anything else you 
might like to share with our committee today about how the 2023 
budget would enable the Service to effectively implement the 
Lacey Act?
    Ms. Williams. Thank you for that question, Chairman Carper, 
and for your leadership on this issue. It has been really 
important.
    As you noted, the Lacey Act is critical here in that, if 
the Fish and Wildlife Service were able, as we had in the past, 
to regulate the importation and transport, so that interState 
transport of invasive species that have been determined to be 
injurious, our ability to do that can help prevent invasive 
species, these high-risk, injurious invasive species from 
taking hold so that we can prevent their establishing 
populations, which we know is so costly to the economy; it is 
costly to ecological services of other species, and it is 
really something that, were we able to take these preventive 
measures, it benefits the American people.
    I can think of examples in the Great Lakes of invasive 
species there and across the Country. The ability, through this 
budget request, to address invasive species that are determined 
to be injurious, really, an ounce of prevention prevents a 
pound of pain.
    Senator Carper. Last question: I was reminded of this on a 
recent visit with one of our two National Wildlife Refuges 
about the importance of volunteers at our refuges in Delaware 
and across the Country, The National Wildlife Refuges are the 
crown jewel of our Nation's network of public lands. I visit 
our two refuges in Delaware, actually, fairly regularly. In 
fact, I visited Bombay Hook National Wildlife Refuge just last 
month. I know that you have enjoyed visiting our refuges, among 
many others as well.
    Thankfully, every State, as I said earlier, every State or 
territory has at least one National Wildlife Refuge, and some 
more than one. Thankfully, every State has National Wildlife 
Refuges that provide important habitat recreational 
opportunities for all Americans.
    I talked to people during the course of the pandemic over 
the last year and a half and talked about being cooped up at 
home and not able to do anything, not being able to recreate. I 
asked them, do you have any State parks? Well, yes, they do. Do 
you have any national parks? Maybe one or two. Do you have any 
National Wildlife Refuges? There is no reason to be cooped up 
at home with all these great places to go and to be exposed and 
be on the outside, on the outdoors, and to see beautiful 
things, and to learn a lot. I hope more people continue to take 
advantage of those opportunities.
    I am glad that the 2023 budget request prioritizes the 
stewardship of our refuges, but given the fiscal constraint, it 
is important to leverage our Federal investment. That is why 
Senator Capito and I introduced the Keep America's Refuges 
Operational Act last week to reauthorize appropriations for the 
National Wildlife Refuge system volunteer program.
    Would you speak to the importance of the National Wildlife 
Refuge System Volunteer Program and how it leverages Federal 
investments to help keep our refuge system operational?
    Ms. Williams. Thank you, Chairman Carper and Ranking Member 
Capito, for your leadership in introducing the Keep America's 
Refuges Operational Act. As you say, our National Wildlife 
Refuge system is a gem. It is so important to so many Americans 
and to the fish and wildlife and habitat that it conserves for 
future generations.
    But the Fish and Wildlife Service, we wouldn't be able to 
really operate our refuge system the way we do now without the 
incredible dedication and support of volunteers. As an example, 
in Fiscal Year 2021, volunteers contributed nearly 650,000 
hours of their time in support of the refuges during the 
pandemic, whereas you noted, the refuges were just so important 
to our physical and emotional wellbeing.
    The support of our volunteers is equivalent to almost 318 
full-time refuge employees. My heart goes out to them in 
appreciation and your leadership and support for these 
volunteers. They are just critical to this gem for the American 
public.
    Senator Carper. Thanks for that response. I would just say 
to all the people across our Country, including in Delaware, 
who are volunteers, our thanks to each of you.
    We are starting voting, I think, right now. Before we wrap, 
I just wanted to give you an opportunity to maybe make a 
closing comment, and then I will have a little short statement 
that I will make. Anything else you would like to mention?
    Ms. Williams. Chairman Carper, I just want to thank you for 
this opportunity and to emphasize that the Fiscal Year budget 
request for 2023 really invests in the delivery of conservation 
in this Country and builds on much-needed capacity and 
resources for the Fish and Wildlife Service to really fulfill 
our mission in working with others to conserve, protect, and 
enhance these resources that are so near and dear to Americans. 
Thank you for the opportunity and for believing in our mission, 
as we do, as well.
    Senator Carper. Thank you for that.
    In closing, I want to thank you on behalf of our committee 
for your presence today. I think over half of our members have 
been able to come. There is a lot going on in the Senate today 
in committees. We all serve on a number of committees, as you 
know, so we are grateful to our colleagues who were able to 
join us here.
    We are grateful for your service to our Country at a time 
when we face both great conservation challenges, but also, they 
come with great opportunities.
    Before we adjourn, a little bit of housekeeping. I want to 
ask unanimous consent to submit for the record a variety of 
materials that relate to today's budget hearing. People say to 
me, what is one of my favorite things in the U.S. Senate? I 
love asking unanimous consent requests when I am the only one 
in the room, because there is nobody else to object. So, I make 
that unanimous consent request, knowing that no one will 
object. So ordered.
    [The referenced information follows:]
    
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Carper. Last thing I would add to that, Senators 
are going to be allowed to submit written questions for the 
record through the close of business on Wednesday, June 1st of 
this year. We will compile those questions and send them to you 
and ask you to reply by Wednesday, June 15th.
    With that, we are done. This hearing is adjourned. Thank 
you so much.
    [Whereupon, at 11:37 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    
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