[Senate Hearing 117-316]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 117-316


   NOMINATIONS OF JULIA R. GORDON, DAVID UEJIO, AND SOLOMON J. GREENE

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                   BANKING,HOUSING,AND URBAN AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                                   ON

                            NOMINATIONS OF:

JULIA R. GORDON, OF MARYLAND, TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HOUSING AND 
                           URBAN DEVELOPMENT
                               __________

 DAVID UEJIO, OF CALIFORNIA, TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HOUSING AND 
                           URBAN DEVELOPMENT
                               __________

    SOLOMON J. GREENE, OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, TO BE ASSISTANT 
               SECRETARY OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT
                               __________

                             AUGUST 5, 2021
                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban 
                                Affairs
                                
                                
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                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                    
48-124 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022                 


            COMMITTEE ON BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS

                     SHERROD BROWN, Ohio, Chairman

JACK REED, Rhode Island              PATRICK J. TOOMEY, Pennsylvania
ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey          RICHARD C. SHELBY, Alabama
JON TESTER, Montana                  MIKE CRAPO, Idaho
MARK R. WARNER, Virginia             TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland           THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
TINA SMITH, Minnesota                BILL HAGERTY, Tennessee
KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona              CYNTHIA LUMMIS, Wyoming
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  JERRY MORAN, Kansas
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
                                     STEVE DAINES, Montana

                     Laura Swanson, Staff Director

                 Brad Grantz, Republican Staff Director

                       Elisha Tuku, Chief Counsel

                        Mohammad Aslami, Counsel

                 Dan Sullivan, Republican Chief Counsel

                 John Crews, Republican Policy Director

                      Cameron Ricker, Chief Clerk

                      Shelvin Simmons, IT Director

                    Charles J. Moffat, Hearing Clerk

                                  (ii)



                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                        THURSDAY, AUGUST 5, 2021

                                                                   Page

Opening statement of Chairman Brown..............................     1
        Prepared statement.......................................    32

Opening statements, comments, or prepared statements of:
    Senator Toomey...............................................     3
        Prepared statement.......................................    33

                                NOMINEES

Julia R. Gordon, of Maryland, to be Assistant Secretary of 
  Housing and Urban Development..................................     5
    Prepared statement...........................................    34
    Biographical sketch of nominee...............................    36
    Responses to written questions of:
        Chairman Brown...........................................    82
        Senator Toomey...........................................    82
        Senator Menendez.........................................    88
        Senator Crapo............................................    89
David Uejio, of California, to be Assistant Secretary of Housing 
  and Urban Development..........................................     7
    Prepared statement...........................................    46
    Biographical sketch of nominee...............................    47
    Responses to written questions of:
        Chairman Brown...........................................    90
        Senator Toomey...........................................    91
Solomon J. Greene, of the District of Columbia, to be Assistant 
  Secretary of Housing and Urban Development.....................     8
    Prepared statement...........................................    57
    Biographical sketch of nominee...............................    58
    Responses to written questions of:
        Chairman Brown...........................................    99
        Senator Toomey...........................................   101
        Senator Menendez.........................................   109

              Additional Material Supplied for the Record

Letters in support of the nomination of Julia R. Gordon..........   111
Letters in opposition to the nominations of Julia R. Gordon and 
  Solomon J. Greene..............................................   133

                                 (iii)

 
   NOMINATIONS OF JULIA R. GORDON, DAVID UEJIO, AND SOLOMON J. GREENE

                              ----------                              


                        THURSDAY, AUGUST 5, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
          Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met at 10:07 a.m., in room 538, Dirksen 
Senate Office Building, Hon. Sherrod Brown, Chairman of the 
Committee, presiding.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN SHERROD BROWN

    Chairman Brown. The Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, 
and Urban Affairs will come to order.
    Today, we will consider three highly qualified nominations 
for critical roles at the Department of Housing and Urban 
Development. Julia Gordon has been nominated to serve as 
Assistant Secretary of Housing and Commissioner of the Federal 
Housing Administration. Ms. Gordon currently serves as 
president of the National Community Stabilization Trust, a 
nonprofit organization that supports neighborhood 
revitalization and affordable home ownership. Previously, Ms. 
Gordon served as the manager of the single-family policy team 
at the Federal Housing Finance Agency, working to help families 
stay in their homes following the 2008 financial crisis.
    If confirmed, she would lead the FHA. As Commissioner of 
FHA, Ms. Gordon would play a pivotal role in helping thousands 
of homeowners weather this pandemic and stay in their homes.
    Welcome, Ms. Gordon. Glad you are here.
    David Uejio is the President's nominee to serve as 
Assistant Secretary for Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity. Mr. 
Uejio currently serves as Acting Director of the Consumer 
Financial Protection Bureau. Previously, he served in different 
roles in public service at NIH, OPM, and DoD. As Assistant 
Secretary for Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, he would 
oversee the implementation and enforcement of laws that protect 
homeowners and renters from housing discrimination.
    We are glad to have you here today, Mr. Uejio. Thank you 
for joining us.
    Finally, we welcome Mr. Solomon Greene. He is the 
President's nominee to serve as Assistant Secretary for Policy 
Development and Research. Mr. Greene currently serves as a 
senior fellow at the Urban Institute, where he leads research 
into fair housing, and how we lift up all residents by creating 
growth widely in our communities. Mr. Greene previously served 
as Senior Advisor at HUD, a litigation associate at a major law 
firm, and an adjunct professor at NYU's Wagner Graduate School 
of Public Service.
    As the head of Policy Development and Research, Mr. Greene 
will lead HUD's research and provide data on housing and 
community development issues that will help inform policy 
decisions.
    These nominees, all three of them, have strong, strong 
records in housing policy and management. They will bring their 
breadth of experience to HUD at a time when our country needs 
it most. I have been the Ranking Member or Chair of this 
Committee for 7 years now, and I have seen few, if any, 
nominees as qualified as they.
    That is what our hearing should focus on today. So I am 
disappointed that the Ranking Member has instead decided to 
attack these public servants and spread misinformation. These 
nominees already responded to Senator Toomey--they did it on 
Monday, and their own words made it clear they support the 
police. Every Democrat in the Senate, and President Biden, all 
supported the American Rescue Plan, which provided critical 
funding to local police department, because of course we 
support the police, and we wanted to make sure that police and 
firefighters were not laid off during this pandemic. I am 
disappointed the Ranking Member continues to think or act 
otherwise.
    I wish my Republican colleagues would put as much effort 
into bringing down the cost of housing for families as they do 
into this political theatre.
    The Ohioans I talk to are exhausted--exhausted--by this 
kind of division and distraction. And they are certainly not 
worried about some retweet from a year ago. People want to know 
what we are going to do--those in Government, and those in 
Congress--to make their lives better. None of us should be so 
brittle as to be so cowed by a tweet or a retweet.
    Today's nominees have been selected to provide their 
expertise at important agencies that are doing real work, work 
that has the potential to bring down people's rents. We know a 
quarter of renters, prepandemic in this country, paid more than 
half their income and rent. One things happen in their life--
the car breaks down, their child gets sick--and their life is 
turned upside down. We want people in Government to be on their 
side.
    Unlike many of the unqualified nominees in the previous 
Administration that came before this Committee--and my 
colleagues recognize how unqualified many of them were--today's 
nominees have the experience and the preparation to make real 
progress. I want to know today from these nominees what will 
they do to make it easier for Pennsylvanians and Ohioans and 
South Carolinians and Minnesotans, how they will make their 
lives easier to afford a home. What will they do to root out 
discrimination in housing? What will they do to find creative 
solutions to the housing challenges families face in 
communities large and small?
    Let us do our jobs today, and let us focus on the results 
Americans care about.
    Thank you again to these nominees for your willingness to 
serve. I look forward to your testimonies.
    And, Members of the Committee, I would like to enter into 
the record letters of support that the Committee has received 
for the nominees: letters in support of Ms. Gordon, 115 
supporters--that is one-one-five supporters--including MBA, the 
Realtors, Housing Policy Council, the National Multifamily 
Housing Council, and the National Fair Housing Alliance; and 
more than 100 more; letters in support of Mr. Uejio from 40 
organizations including the Japanese American Citizens League, 
National Association of American Veterans, and the Leadership 
Conference on Civil and Human Rights, and dozens more; and 
letters in support of Mr. Greene from 31 organizations, the 
Realtors, the Council of Large Public Housing Authorities, and 
the National League of Cities, more than 25 more.
    Without objection, I enter those letters into the record. 
Without objection.
    Chairman Brown. Ranking Member Toomey.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PATRICK J. TOOMEY

    Senator Toomey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, I want to 
point out that under both Presidents Obama and Biden, I have 
repeatedly supported many nominees who had the necessary 
experience, the temperament, and the policy views, policy views 
that I often disagreed with, but nevertheless acknowledged they 
were within the mainstream of American political thought, and I 
supported them.
    Unfortunately, the nominees before us today, who have been 
nominated for seniors positions at HUD, do not meet all of 
these important criteria. In fact, I think there is ample 
evidence that these Biden nominees have indicated a hostility 
to the policy, they have subscribed to the theory that the 
police are racists, and they have advocated for defunding the 
police. My objection is not because these folks have put out 
tweets or retweets. It is because of what those tweets, and in 
other cases, their own writings in other mediums, tell us about 
what they believe.
    Let's consider Solomon Greene. He has repeatedly made 
troubling statements denigrating the police and advocating for 
the defunding of the police. Some of these statements he made 
on Twitter, but others he made in an article that he himself 
wrote just last June.
    In that article, he alleged that, quote, ``overpolicing,'' 
end quote, endangers communities of color, and he advocated 
for, and I quote, ``recapturing funding for the police,'' end 
quote, which certainly sounds like a euphemism for defunding 
the police, and reallocating that funding to other uses, such 
as, quote, ``community arts and cultural institutions,'' end 
quote, this at a time when crime rates in America's major 
cities are on the rise. These views are so outside the 
political mainstream, and I think they disqualify him from 
holding a senior leadership position at HUD.
    Equally concerning are Julia Gordon's past statements. Ms. 
Gordon, among other things, retweeted a post that described 
police officers as, and I quote, ``the people killing us,'' end 
quote. She also suggested in a letter that she wrote, not a 
tweet or a retweet but a letter that she wrote, that police 
violence stems from, quote, ``flawed and biased systems that 
require structural change,'' end quote. Additionally, Ms. 
Gordon disparaged elected Republican officials. For example, 
she attacked Senator Lindsey Graham as, quote, ``desperate,'' 
end quote, and ``Lying Lindsey,'' end quote.
    In my view, these and other troubling statements are 
clearly outside the political mainstream and disqualify her 
from serving in a senior position at HUD.
    Unfortunately, we do not know the full extent of Mr. Greene 
and Ms. Gordon's public statements because they deleted some of 
their previously public tweets before being nominated. I asked 
them to try to recover their deleted tweets from Twitter. But 
they have refused to comply with this reasonable request. And 
it makes you wonder: What do they have to hide?
    As the Senate evaluates nominees' fitness for senior 
leadership positions, it is important the public has a full 
picture of their policy views, their judgment, and their 
character. A nominee's past public statements do matter, and a 
nominee should not be able to avoid that scrutiny by merely 
clicking a button marked Delete.
    All of the Republicans on this Committee have written to 
President Biden asking him to withdraw Mr. Greene and Ms. 
Gordon's nominations because of their past anti-police 
statements, and we are not alone in our concern. The National 
Sheriffs' Association, which represents thousands of sheriffs 
across the country, has written letters opposing both of these 
nominees.
    Mr. David Uejio also has a record that makes him 
unqualified to serve in a senior position at HUD. As CFPB 
Acting Director, he has publicly promoted the view that our 
criminal justice system, which includes police officers, is 
infected with, and I quote, ``latent, structural racism,'' end 
quote.
    Beyond that, what is most troubling about his record is his 
lack of housing experience, especially on fair housing issues. 
But he has been nominated to run HUD's Fair Housing Office, 
which is responsible for protecting households from housing 
discrimination. Yet nothing in his background suggests that he 
has the experience or qualifications to enforce and administer 
the Nation's fair housing laws.
    He has served as CFPB Acting Director for just a few 
months, but in that short time he has reportedly taken very 
concerning personnel action, refused to provide information to 
Congress, ignored stakeholders on important housing matters, 
and returned the CFPB to the path of regulation by enforcement.
    There have been serious allegations that, under Mr. Uejio's 
leadership, the CFPB is taking unusual and possibly unlawful 
actions to forcibly replace career civil servants with 
loyalists. Yet he has refused to provide Congress with 
documents that would address these allegations.
    Ignoring stakeholder input, Mr. Uejio also decided to delay 
the transition to CFPB's new Qualified Mortgage rule, despite 
industry, consumer, and civil rights groups, and bipartisan 
Senators from this very Committee urging him to reconsider. In 
fact, despite stakeholder concerns, the CFPB stated it will 
consider rewriting the rule.
    In addition, Mr. Uejio rescinded CFPB policies that 
provided regulatory clarity, clearing the path for the CFPB to 
return to regulation by enforcement. Finally, he has shown 
little regard for the CFPB's jurisdictional limits.
    So I am troubled that the Biden administration has chosen 
nominees who have made it clear, through their writings, their 
tweets, and retweets, that they have been hostile to the 
police, they subscribe to the theory that the police are 
racists, and they support defunding the police. These 
statements speak directly to their policy views and temperament 
and therefore are extremely relevant to our consideration of 
their nominations.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Ranking Member Toomey.
    As you stand for the oath in a moment I am troubled that 
this Committee did a first-of-its-kind hearing on structural 
racism in housing, and a number of comments that you have all 
tweeted about, and there have been some tweets pointing that 
out. And, you know, you acknowledged our country's horrible 
history of slavery and racial discrimination and Black codes 
and Jim Crow and redlining, and those are relevant issues that 
the understanding of those issues is something that the 
previous Administration seemed little concerned about. 
Understanding those issues will make you better nominees and 
better public servants as you are confirmed.
    So please stand and raise your right hands.
    Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that are you 
about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God?
    Ms. Gordon. I do.
    Mr. Uejio. I do.
    Mr. Greene. I do.
    Chairman Brown. Do you agree to appear and testify before 
any duly constituted Committee of the U.S. Senate?
    Ms. Gordon. I do.
    Mr. Uejio. I do.
    Mr. Greene. I do.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you. Please be seated.
    We welcome the three of you to the Committee. If you would 
like to introduce family members or friends with you today at 
the beginning of your testimony I invite you to do that.
    Ms. Gordon, please begin your testimony. You are recognized 
for 5 minutes. Thank you.

  TESTIMONY OF JULIA R. GORDON, OF MARYLAND, NOMINATED TO BE 
      ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT

    Ms. Gordon. Chairman Brown, Ranking Member Toomey, and 
distinguished Members of the Committee, I am deeply honored and 
humbled to appear before you today as the nominee for Assistant 
Secretary for Housing and Federal Housing Commissioner of the 
Department of Housing and Urban Development. I want to begin by 
thanking President Biden and Secretary Fudge for the confidence 
and trust they have placed in me. I would also like to thank 
the Committee for scheduling this hearing and considering my 
nomination.
    Before I talk more about my experience, I would also like 
to recognize and thank my family who have joined me today. My 
husband, Geoffrey Berman, is my most enthusiastic cheerleader, 
and with more than 30 years at the Pentagon as a civilian 
expert supporting our troops, he models what it means to be a 
true public servant.
    My daughter, Rochelle Berman, a rising high school senior, 
gives me so much hope for the future with her love of learning 
and her gift for connection with others.
    I would also like to thank my mother, Rhona Gordon, who 
cannot be here today in person. She instilled in me the value 
of tikkun olam, which means working in partnership with God to 
make the world a better place. That value has been the lodestar 
of my life and career.
    But my mom's life has not always been easy, and our 
family's experience is a big part of why I believe so strongly 
in the honorable mission of the Federal Housing Administration. 
I grew up in what we now call single-family rental, and because 
my parents were low income, they did not retire with pensions 
or savings beyond their small Social Security checks.
    Today, my mom lives in a subsidized apartment building for 
seniors, but her rent still would exceed her monthly income if 
not for additional housing assistance she receives from the 
county. This lived experience undergirds my commitment to 
promoting home ownership, which is the best path to family 
stability and prosperity, and to ensuring that we support safe, 
affordable, and habitable rental housing.
    If confirmed, I look forward to working with President 
Biden, Secretary Fudge, and Congress on several time-sensitive 
priorities. First and foremost is recovering from COVID and 
preventing foreclosures stemming from COVID-related economic 
hardship. Hundreds of thousands of FHA homeowners are behind on 
their mortgage payments, many with a CARES Act forbearance, 
which has left them with considerable arrearages. Many of those 
have seen a permanent reduction in income. While FHA has 
already done a lot of hard work to develop the right tools to 
help these homeowners begin to pay again, there is still a very 
steep hill to climb to make sure no family loses their home as 
a result of COVID.
    My experience uniquely qualifies me to lead FHA's team at 
this time. Back in 2007, I worked at the Center for Responsible 
Lending, where my work centered first on mortgage policy and 
later on foreclosure prevention. Subsequently, I moved to the 
Federal Housing Finance Agency, where I managed the policy team 
overseeing the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's to provide loss 
mitigation for homeowners.
    Currently, as the president of the National Community 
Stabilization Trust, I focus on the connection between housing 
and strong neighborhoods, working to prevent blight and create 
more opportunities for home ownership. Through these 
experiences, I have learned important lessons and developed 
deep technical expertise and stakeholder relationships that I 
can use to navigate the road ahead if I am confirmed.
    Additionally, if confirmed, I would prioritize increasing 
the supply of affordable housing for both rental and home 
ownership. In fact, my work on supply issues has long predated 
today's headlines. Over the past decade, the team I lead has 
helped community-based developers put more than 27,000 blighted 
properties back to work for families. We also provide capital 
to small businesses seeking to create new home ownership, and 
we advocate for supply oriented initiatives such as the 
Neighborhood Homes Investment Act.
    Those of you on this Committee deeply understand that safe, 
healthy, and affordable housing is the necessary precondition 
for families and communities to thrive and prosper. If I am 
confirmed, I look forward to working with you to achieve that 
goal for as many households as possible.
    Thank you so much for the opportunity to testify before you 
today. I look forward to your questions.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Ms. Gordon. Mr. Uejio, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.

   TESTIMONY OF DAVID UEJIO, OF CALIFORNIA, NOMINATED TO BE 
      ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT

    Mr. Uejio. Thank you Chairman Brown, Ranking Member Toomey, 
and Members of the Committee, I am incredibly honored and 
humbled to appear before you today as the nominee for Assistant 
Secretary for Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity at the 
Department of Housing and Urban Development. I want to begin by 
thanking President Biden for the trust and confidence he has 
placed in me by nominating me for this position.
    I would also like to thank my family and friends for their 
endless support of me over many years of public service. I 
especially want to thank my wife who has believed in me every 
step of the way.
    If confirmed, my role will be to enforce our Nation's fair 
housing laws and to create strong, sustainable, and inclusive 
communities for all Americans. I believe wholeheartedly in this 
mission. FHEO's work is critical to millions of American 
families, and I am deeply grateful and would be honored to lead 
the office if I were confirmed.
    I have dedicated my career to public service. As the 
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's Chief Strategy Officer, 
I worked directly with Director Cordray, Acting Director 
Mulvaney, and Director Kraninger to articulate their policy 
vision and priorities and to protect America's consumers. I 
have a proven track record of translating statute into 
actionable plans, translating the Bureau's mission into 
concrete outcomes for the American public. I have leveraged my 
expertise in strategy, policy implementation, and operational 
leadership to drive four Federal agencies to be more than the 
sum of their parts, strengthening mission delivery everywhere I 
have served.
    As a career civil servant, I have served with honor and 
integrity in carrying out the missions these agencies, always 
seeking to provide the American public with the world-class 
Government they deserve. These values have always served as my 
North Star and would continue to do so if I were confirmed in 
this role.
    Over the last 6 months, I have had the opportunity to lead 
America's consumer financial protection agency. As Acting 
Director of the CFPB, I have centered the experience of 
individual consumers, starting with the most vulnerable. I have 
enforced America's consumer financial protection laws, 
deploying the Bureau's enforcement, supervision, rulemaking, 
and guidance tools to protect vulnerable consumers from illegal 
unfair, deceptive, and abusive acts and practices. I have 
overseen the Bureau's complaint handling function, responding 
to over 500,000 complaints in 2020 from consumers seeking help.
    Under my leadership, the Bureau has returned to publishing 
regular analysis of the complaints we receive from those 
consumers, including the first ever CFPB-published analysis of 
demographic data and our May bulletin highlighting problems 
encountered by mortgage borrowers. I have determined the 
strategic direction and allocated additional resources toward 
advancing racial and economic equity, including through the 
Bureau's fair lending work under the Equal Credit Opportunity 
Act, which includes supervision of regulated entities and major 
fair lending enforcement matters.
    Finally, at a time when our country has faced extraordinary 
obstacles as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic and resulting 
economic disruption, I have focused the Bureau's resources on 
doing what we can to keep consumers housed.
    As a third-generation immigrant from Japan, I have seen 
firsthand the barriers to opportunity that can arise from 
discrimination in housing. My grand-uncle was interned during 
World War II. More recently, my father-in-law became severely 
disabled and had difficulty finding access to accessible 
housing. My life has shown me the crucial role housing plays in 
providing access to opportunity for every American, and no 
American's path to secure housing should be blocked by unlawful 
discrimination.
    I am committed to upholding and implementing our Nation's 
housing laws, including the Fair Housing Act. Were I fortunate 
enough to be confirmed, I would execute FHEO's mission under 
Secretary Fudge with transparency, integrity, and impartiality, 
and I would look forward to working with this Committee to 
ensure equitable access to housing for all Americans. Most 
importantly, I will continue to put the people we serve at the 
heart of everything I do.
    Thank you to this Committee for the privilege of appearing 
before you today, and I look forward to answering your 
questions.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Mr. Uejio. Mr. Greene, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.

 TESTIMONY OF SOLOMON J. GREENE, OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, 
   NOMINATED TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HOUSING AND URBAN 
                          DEVELOPMENT

    Mr. Greene. Chairman Brown, Ranking Member Toomey, and 
distinguished Members of the Committee, I am deeply honored to 
appear before you today as you consider my nomination. I want 
to begin by thanking President Biden and Secretary Fudge for 
the confidence and trust they placed in me by nominating me for 
this important position. I would also like to thank my family 
for their love and unwavering support.
    I would also like to express my heartfelt gratitude to 
several mentors who have been instrumental in my life, 
including the Honorable Dorothy W. Nelson, Ingrid Gould Ellen, 
Katherine O'Regan, Erika Poethig, and Sarah Rosen Wartell, who 
is joining me today at the hearing. Thank you, Sarah.
    Senators, HUD is currently navigating a rapidly evolving 
housing crisis, and it is playing a central role in helping the 
Nation build back better from the pandemic. We are at a moment 
in our Nation's history when HUD's mission is more important 
than ever.
    Throughout my career I have sought to apply the best 
available research, data, and evidence to advance HUD's 
mission. My work on housing and community development policy 
has been motivated by three deeply held commitments, which I 
believe would make me well-suited to serve, if confirmed.
    First, I have dedicated my career to helping all families 
find and keep stable and affordable housing. This is something 
I grew to appreciate from an early age. I was raised primarily 
by a single mother who earned so little while working full-time 
as a nurse that we received Medicaid and food stamps. By 
economic necessity, my family often moved to where we could 
afford the rent until my mother was able to scrimp and save 
just enough for a downpayment on a house in a rural county in 
New York State. That house and property, where my mother, my 
brother, his wife and my baby nephew still live today, provided 
the stability I needed to be able to focus on school and my 
future. I truly believe it is why I am able to sit here before 
you today as a nominee.
    These early experiences also instilled in me the 
recognition that a home is more than a roof over your head. It 
is also a platform for health and well-being and a downpayment 
on your children's future. Throughout my career, I have strived 
to give every family the opportunities I was given by studying 
the policies and programs that expand options for safe, stable, 
and affordable housing.
    Second, I believe that evidence-based housing and community 
development policies can help ensure that every child has a 
fair shot in life. The American Dream is that no matter who you 
are or where you come from, if you work hard and give it your 
all you will succeed. I have dedicated my career to ensuring 
that where you come from does not determine who you can become 
later in life.
    I study the policies that shape communities and the 
opportunities they offer their residents, and for years I have 
worked with Federal, State, and local leaders to design and 
test policies that revitalize communities, expand neighborhood 
choices, and boost upward mobility.
    Finally, and most importantly for the position to which I 
have been nominated, I am passionate about using the best 
available data and evidence to inform public policy decisions 
at all levels of Government. I am first and foremost a 
researcher with a strong and proven commitment to evidence-
based policymaking. I have demonstrated this through over two 
decades of work on data-driven and community-informed housing 
policy, from my work in local government to my work at HUD, as 
a graduate student in law and urban planning, a legal research 
fellow and adjunct professor at NYU, and mostly recently for 
almost 7 years as a senior researcher at the Urban Institute.
    In all of my work, I have applied independent, unbiased, 
and objective research to help ensure that our public policies 
are rooted in evidence, maximize the impact of limited 
resources, and respond to the realities of people and 
communities on the ground.
    I am also passionate about bringing together researchers, 
practitioners, and policymakers to identify evidence-based and 
data-driven policy solutions to our Nation's housing and 
community development challenges. I firmly believe that 
rigorous research can provide diverse stakeholders with a 
common frame through which to assess problems and a shared 
foundation to find solutions.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. 
I look forward to your questions.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Mr. Greene.
    Mr. Greene and Ms. Gordon, we will start with you. Let us 
get the distraction and the nonsense out of the way once and 
for all, quickly, so we can focus on policy and your 
qualifications. Some have suggested you do not support law 
enforcement personnel. You have read the letter. You have heard 
the accusations. Have you ever personally advocated that the 
police should be defunded? Ms. Gordon.
    Ms. Gordon. Thank you so much for that question, Chairman 
Brown. I have not advocated to defund the police. I support law 
enforcement. I have family members in law enforcement. And as 
previously stated, my husband has worked at the Pentagon for 
more than three decades. Thank you.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you. Mr. Greene.
    Mr. Greene. Thank you, Chairman Brown. I do not support 
defunding the police, as stated in the letter I shared with 
this Committee. I do not and have not taken any positions on 
policing and law enforcement. I am not an expert in those 
areas, and I defer to experts when addressing those issues, as 
well as leaders in the law enforcement community, and I hope to 
listen and learn to their concerns. But I absolutely do not 
support defunding the police.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you for closing that chapter.
    Ms. Gordon, in the months ahead, tens of thousands of FHA 
borrowers will be exiting forbearance and will need to get back 
on track to stay in their homes. You were on the front lines of 
responding to the national financial crisis at the FHFA. What 
have we learned since 2011 that can help us keep homeowners in 
their homes in the ensuing years?
    Ms. Gordon. Thank you for that excellent question. We have 
learned a lot of important things. The first thing we learned 
is to move swiftly when a crisis looms, and I want to thank 
Congress for moving swiftly to pass the CARES Act. If we can 
manage through the post-forbearance period with folks who got a 
CARES Act forbearance, I think this will go down as one of the 
great successes of Congress over the last several years.
    Other things we have learned is that most families want to 
pay their mortgage, and if we develop programs based on that 
understanding and not putting too many obstacles in the way of 
receiving help so that people have to prove through voluminous 
documentation and, you know, affidavits that, you know, what 
exactly their situation is, we have proven we can actually get 
assistance out rapidly and effectively. And I do feel like that 
is what has happened during this crisis so far.
    Coming up, what we have also learned is that having the 
right tools in place is only half the battle. The other half of 
the battle is execution. The role that the mortgage servicers 
have to play in keeping people in their homes cannot be 
overstated, and these are relationships that I have built for 
years. I understand mortgage servicing deeply, and I believe I 
can help manage through this crisis so that no family loses 
their home unnecessarily.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Ms. Gordon.
    Mr. Uejio, FHEO staffing is down 12 percent over the past 
decade. Both the Trump and Biden administrations have raised 
concerns that staffing declines could undermine HUD's ability 
to protect Americans from housing discrimination. You have 
years of management experience, a special expertise in talent 
acquisition, which the Department and the Office of Fair 
Housing and Equal Opportunity desperately need.
    Two questions. What will you do to ensure that FHEO has the 
staff and resources it needs to comply with Fair Housing Act, 
and what steps will you take to overcome these persistent 
staffing challenges?
    Mr. Uejio. Thank you, Chair Brown, for that question. As 
you have recognized, I have spent my entire career helping 
Federal agencies develop and execute their talent strategies, 
and I would look to bring to bear best practices from that 
experience in attracting talent to the noble mission of FHEO.
    It is important, in my experience, to create both a calling 
or a pursuit for those people to be inspired through the 
mission--I think that is available amply in FHEO's case--and to 
pair that with a strong employee experience that includes the 
training, the resources, the leadership necessary to motivate 
those individuals to best accomplish FHEO's mission.
    I would like to thank Congress for allocating additional 
resources to FHEO in the recent budget. I think those will be 
well utilized to reinvigorate this institution to ensure it has 
the human resources to engage in the noble work of seeking out 
housing discrimination on behalf of all Americans.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you. And last, quickly, Mr. Greene, 
we are facing a shortage of homes, obviously, that families can 
afford across the country, renters and home buyers. How can 
HUD's Office of Policy Development and Research help us better 
understand the reasons behind this shortage and find solutions 
to bring down the cost of rent and the cost of a mortgage?
    Mr. Greene. Yeah. Thank you, Chairman Brown. I think HUD's 
Office of Policy Development and Research has a strong 
foundation to build upon. It already provides foundational 
research and data and supports evidence-based policymaking 
across the agency, and has extraordinarily talented career 
staff.
    In order to address both the current housing instability 
challenges and the ongoing supply issues, I would want to build 
upon those strengths in two ways: one, broaden stakeholder 
engagement to really understand what are some of the challenges 
communities are facing on the ground, and two, to find ways to 
do more timely and actionable research that responds to the 
evolving needs in the wake of the pandemic. Thank you for the 
question.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Mr. Green. Senator Toomey is 
recognized.
    Senator Toomey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. According to a 
Gallup poll taken during last summer's protests and riots, 67 
percent of Americans want police to spend the same amount of 
time in their communities as they do now. Eighty-one percent of 
African Americans want police to spend the same amount or more 
time in their communities. Since then, violent crime rates are 
higher today than they were then. I think it is clear that 
Americans of all races overwhelmingly want the police in their 
communities to protect them.
    But, Mr. Greene, based on some of your public statements, 
it is pretty clear you do not share that view, and given the 
hostility to the police expressed in some of those statement, 
my concern is that Americans, including those living in public 
housing, could reasonable doubt whether you will advocate for 
policies at HUD that will keep them safe.
    So, for instance, in an article that you wrote for the 
Urban Institute in June of 2020, you advocated for, and I 
quote, ``recapturing funding from the police,'' end quote, and 
then you went on to describe other purposes to which it could 
be put, such as community arts and cultural institutions. 
``Recapturing funding from the police'' sure sounds like 
defunding the police to me. You went on in that same article to 
argue that, and I quote, ``Too many families of color live in 
neighborhoods endangered by overpolicing,'' end quote.
    So is it still your view that the police endanger people of 
color in the communities that they protect?
    Mr. Greene. Thank you for the question, Ranking Member 
Toomey, and for the opportunity to elevate some of my past 
research. I want to emphasize that that blog post--in that blog 
post we were sharing the findings of evidence-based strategies 
to improve neighborhoods through investments and to expand 
upward mobility by addressing disparities in access to 
neighborhoods. We did not advocate for defunding the police.
    Senator Toomey. OK. Well, so ordinary English language 
certainly suggests that you did.
    There is a tweet that you put out where it appears that you 
cut-and-pasted from another article, and what you cut-and-
pasted was, and I am quoting now, ``Here's another idea. 
Imagine if the money used to pay the salaries of police 
officers, who endlessly patrol public housing buildings and 
harass residents, can be used to fund plans that residents 
designed to keep themselves safe. No more money for the 
police.'' That is what you tweeted.
    But then you replied to your own tweet, in which you said, 
``Also: ``@nfg--org and @funders4justice''--these are two 
notorious anti-police organizations--``had it right all 
along!'' So it is really, really hard to suggest that somehow 
you have no animosity toward law enforcement.
    Ms. Gordon, some of your statements and tweets suggest a 
similar concern for me. In one case, you retweeted a post, 
which I think we have a picture of the tweet, and in it the 
police officers are described as, and I quote, ``the people 
killing us.'' Is that your view that that is a fair way to 
describe law enforcement, the people killing us?
    Ms. Gordon. That is not my view, and I regret retweeting 
that.
    Senator Toomey. But you did, and other tweets that you have 
sent out have thematically been very similar. So it causes us 
to wonder about what your views are regarding law enforcement.
    Mr. Uejio, you confirmed to my staff, I believe, that the 
CFPB regularly updates Mr. Chopra on what is happening at the 
CFPB. Is that correct?
    Mr. Uejio. Thank you for the question. Ranking Member, that 
is correct.
    Senator Toomey. OK. Who, at the CFPB, does that updating?
    Mr. Uejio. At the CFPB, well, at the CFPB that is generally 
done by the staff, career staff, who provide that information 
to the nominee. I should clarify, though, that I am not 
appearing before the Committee in my role as Acting Director.
    Senator Toomey. That is fine. But I am still interested in 
knowing what kinds of CFPB activities are Mr. Chopra updated 
on?
    Mr. Uejio. In that matter we consulted very early on, when 
he was nominated, with our general counsel, for the appropriate 
guidelines for engaging with nominees. That includes, you know, 
news of the day. But we are totally in compliance with the 
guidance from our general counsel.
    Senator Toomey. Has he been updated on any personnel 
matters?
    Mr. Uejio. No, sir.
    Senator Toomey. OK. And presumably he has opinions and 
thoughts about the agency that he is slated to run. Has he 
provided feedback on policy matters there?
    Mr. Uejio. Thank you for the question. It is the 
opportunity to clarify. All of the decisions that I have made 
as Acting Director of the CFPB have been mine, and they have 
not been Mr. Chopra's.
    Senator Toomey. I did not ask you that. I asked whether he 
has provided his input on policy matters.
    Mr. Uejio. No, sir.
    Senator Toomey. OK. Last point, and this is just for the 
record, I just want to stress, I sent you a letter requesting 
information relating to allegations about career civil servants 
being removed from the CFPB in order to be replaced with 
political loyalists. You responded in writing but you did not 
provide any of the records that we requested. You did not even 
provide the equivalent of what someone would get if they made a 
FOIA request, and that could be redacted to hide any personally 
identifiable or otherwise exempted information. This is not 
acceptable, and it gives me serious concern about how 
responsive you will be to congressional requests in the future.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Brown. Senator Reed is recognized for 5 minutes, 
from Rhode Island.
    Senator Reed. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Ms. 
Gordon, I note that you have been strongly endorsed by the Fair 
Housing Alliance and the National Association of Realtors, who 
are not often on the same frequency, if you will. So that 
suggests that there is a broad coalition of stakeholders that 
believe that you are well prepared and competent for this job, 
and that is encouraging.
    We had a chance to chat. We are in the midst, as everyone 
recognizes, of potential onslaught of foreclosures. What can 
the FHA do proactively to prevent these foreclosures?
    Ms. Gordon. There are really two things that are critical 
for preventing foreclosures. One is to have the right tools, or 
some people at FHA call the products, to offer to homeowners 
because they have built up arrearages--you know, mortgage 
payments they have not paid--during the CARES Act forbearance. 
So you need particular products that allow then either to defer 
that payment until the end of that loan or to spread that 
payment out across the term of their loan.
    FHA has now put in some very good tools for them to do 
that. Now what has to happen is we have to make sure we give 
really clear direction to the mortgage servicers and really 
support them as they work to make individual contact with these 
borrowers.
    One thing FHA did that I want to commend them for is they 
are now, much like the GSEs do, proactively sending out some 
offers to borrowers, you know, to come back into performance on 
their mortgage. So I look forward to, if I am confirmed, to 
helping manage through what is a very difficult process but 
where I really think we can be successful this time around.
    Senator Reed. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Uejio, the Administration has announced that it will 
enforce the Fair Housing Act to include individuals based on 
sexual orientation and gender identity, and this is a new task, 
so can you give us an idea of how you will address this type of 
discrimination?
    Mr. Uejio. Sure. Thank you for the question, Senator. I 
have been very pleased to see the Administration's focus, as 
well as the Secretary's, on this important issue. With the 
inclusion of sexual orientation and gender identity, in light 
of the Supreme Court's Bostock ruling, I would look, if 
confirmed in the role, to bring to bear the collective tools of 
FHEO, starting with complaints from the public who are affected 
by these instances of potential discrimination, in seeking out 
and ensuring those communities are maximally protected under 
the Fair Housing Act.
    Senator Reed. Thank you very much. And, Mr. Greene, I would 
also note that you have been endorsed by the Council of Large 
Public Housing Authorities, which members manage 40 percent of 
public housing in the United States, and I have long worked on 
this Committee for opportunities for public housing.
    What strategy do you have to fashion a housing policy that 
will better serve the most vulnerable Americans, and those are 
typically in public housing or trying to get into public 
housing or some type of subsidized housing?
    Mr. Greene. Thank you, Senator. I have had the pleasure of 
working with the Council for several years, and most recently 
worked with them to launch a housing crisis research 
collaborative dedicated to bringing some of the most rigorous 
and timely research to bear, to be able to address exactly 
those questions. And I think that the specific strategies that 
I would want to support, if I was confirmed to lead the Office 
of Policy Development and Research, would be to focus research 
on the lived experiences of people who face the greatest 
barriers to housing, to make better use of the program data 
that HUD already has available, to understand what the 
challenges are for residents who live in public and assisted 
housing. And as I said at the outset, one of my priorities 
would be to engage a broader set of stakeholders to really get 
a full picture of what the research knowledge gaps are and how 
the office could help fill them.
    Senator Reed. Well, thank you very much. I think one area 
is self-sufficiency programs. It is one thing to provide 
shelter, but without support--educational, financial, training, 
access to day care so people can go to work--you know, it is a 
cycle in and out of public housing. So hopefully you can focus 
on those issues too.
    Thank you very much.
    Chairman Brown. Senator Tillis from North Carolina is 
recognized.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
being here.
    Ms. Gordon, I am going to have you respond to something 
after I go through some of the background. In 2014, you 
retweeted someone who wrote, ``Trying to win Southern seats is 
not worth the ideological costs for Democrats.'' It is a Daily 
Beast article that was attached to the retweet, which lambasted 
the South as a backwards place, filled with backwards people 
that Democrats should shun. I think the passage even included 
``practically the whole region, the South, has rejected nearly 
everything that is good about this country and has become just 
one big nuclear waste site of choleric and extremely racialized 
resentment.''
    North Carolina was specifically listed as a State that 
Democrats should consider caring about, but only under the 
right circumstances when necessary for the electoral college.
    Ms. Gordon, what is good about this country that Southern 
States have rejected?
    Ms. Gordon. Thank you so much, Senator, for giving me the 
opportunity to talk about this tweet. I would like to start by 
saying that when I was in high school my family moved to North 
Carolina in search of work there, and I loved living in North 
Carolina and I still count many, many people in North Carolina 
as my friends.
    I regret this retweet, which, to be frank, is retweeted 
just because that person was a friend of mine. I thoughtlessly 
retweeted it, and I regret it.
    Senator Tillis. Ms. Gordon, what is the ideological cost 
for Democrats who seek office? If you just go back and see what 
the article was focused on, what is the ideological cost for 
Democrats who seek office in Southern States?
    Ms. Gordon. Like I said, I just retweeted that in a hurry. 
I regret it. I do not have any view on the content of the 
article.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Ms. Gordon.
    Mr. Greene, last summer the city of Portland experienced a 
number of violent riots. The Edith Green-Wendell Wyatt Federal 
Building, which houses 40 HUD employees, was the target of 
repeated attacks, according to DHS. Some officers suffered 
permanent blindness. Rioters attacked with mortar-style 
fireworks and Molotov cocktails. As a result, the building was 
closed most of the summer.
    Last May, you retweeted, ``Violent protests are not the 
story. Police violence is.'' And last July you retweeted, ``HUD 
Secretary Donovan, who characterized the riots as an expression 
of free speech.''
    Why did you tweet and retweet those statements?
    Mr. Greene. Thank you, Senator. I fully support the law 
enforcement community and condemn any violence against people 
or property damage. I want to emphasize, again, put the 
context, the necessary context to both of those tweets. One 
tweet was referencing protests. It was simply the title that 
accompanied a link to an article from Vox. Those were not my 
words.
    The second tweet, as you mentioned, was a retweet of 
Secretary Donovan. It was an exchange between Secretary Donovan 
and Secretary Carson. I work in the housing field. Two 
Secretaries having a discussion on Twitter is noteworthy. I 
never, in any of my tweets, anticipated that retweets or 
sharing articles would be considered endorsements, and I do not 
endorse the ideas in the publications or in the tweets.
    Senator Tillis. Well, I actually think that when you 
retweet something you are quoting something as an expression of 
your own ideas, so you may want to be more thoughtful in the 
future, if that is not your intent.
    According to the DHS, on May 30, 2020, rioters repeated the 
same building. On June 11, 2020, rioters dismantled a section 
of the fence that protects the Federal Building. On June 30, 
2020, rioters ripped down the plywood covering the windows at 
this Federal facility before breaking the windows. On July 12, 
rioters fired rockets at the facility, in addition to graffiti-
ing it. On July 14, 2020, rioters assaulted Federal law 
enforcement officers with cans and various other objects while 
they attempted to breach the facility. Additionally, at the 
same facility, rioters attempted to tamper with the water feed 
into the building, even being caught with chemicals by the 
police.
    Do you consider any of this a peaceful protest or an 
expression of free speech.
    Mr. Greene. Thank you, Senator. I just want to also 
appreciate your suggestion to be more thoughtful in the future. 
I do want to recognize that any past tweets were in a personal 
capacity. If I am fortunate enough to be confirmed by this 
Committee I would have a limited social media presence, and 
would be sharing----
    Senator Tillis. Well, Mr. Greene----
    Mr. Greene. ----others' ideas.
    Senator Tillis. ----Mr. Greene, my time is out, but I 
think--I just got out of a Judiciary Committee where I voted 
for five out of six judicial nominations. Some of them what I 
considered to be some problematic comments in their background, 
but I still felt like they were qualified to be confirmed to 
the bench in DOJ positions.
    But it just seems to me that you have to own--these are not 
youthful indiscretions. These are things that happened 
contemporaneously, and they provide me serious concern with the 
position that you are being nominated for.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Senator Tillis. Senator Menendez 
from New Jersey is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Senator Menendez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as 
I have noted before, if our colleagues believe that tweets on 
policy differences or politics are disqualifying for a nominee 
that I would note, as the Ranking Member of the Senate Foreign 
Relations Committee at the time, I saw a number of nominees put 
forward by the last Administration who clearly did not meet 
that standard. Let me give you some examples.
    President Trump's confirmed, the Senate-confirmed 
Ambassador to Slovenia, shared an article entitled ``The 
Clinton body count: Five mysterious deaths in the last 6 
weeks,'' resurrecting the vicious lie conspiracy theory that 
President Clinton and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had 
systemically murdered political opponents and associates.
    Let me talk about the Trump nominee confirmed--and this is 
not one Republican vote against--the Ambassador to Kenya, who 
tweeted on Election night 2016, ``Hillary for prison. No, 
really.''
    Let me talk about the Trump nominee who tweeted about 
Members of this Committee, some of which I will not repeat 
because they did not deserve it. But he called one member of 
the Senate, on the Republican side, that Satan had a hold on 
him and that he would go to hell. He talked about another 
Republican member's wife, and had rather horrible things to 
say.
    And so I can tell you that the list is replete of those 
individuals that Republican Senators voted, in unanimity for.
    Now these are some examples, and they are examples far 
beyond anything that these nominees have said before us, and I 
do not recall our colleagues sending letter after letter to the 
State Department or the Administration criticizing the last 
Administration's nominees.
    In fact, the former President himself habitually--
habitually--retweeted things. In fact, he retweeted a video of 
a violent incident on a New York City subway platform. The 
video shows a Black man pushing a White woman into a train car 
and it is captioned ``Black Lives Matter. Antifa the problem?'' 
It was over a year old and it had nothing to do with either 
about Black Lives Matter or Antifa. In fact, it showed the 
action of a mentally ill man with no known ties to either 
group. But that went on like wildfire. The former President had 
no problem doing that. So I do not recall any indignation 
during that whole period of time.
    These nominees before us today, I may not agree with all of 
their tweets, but they are experienced, competent, and 
dedicated, as evidenced by hundreds of individuals and 
organizations that have endorsed them. And I will note for the 
Committee that the former FHA Commissioner, Brian Montgomery, 
who served under both Presidents Bush and Trump, issued a 
statement in support of Ms. Gordon's nomination, calling her 
``immensely qualified.''
    So despite some of the rhetoric we are hearing today, let 
there be no doubt that these nominees are up to the job they 
have been nominated for, and with that, what little time I have 
left, let me--I will have to submit a series of questions for 
the record, that I hope you will answer substantively--Mr. 
Greene, in a 2020 paper you wrote, quote, ``Disparities in 
COVID-19's effects are driving by structural barriers and 
neighborhood-level conditions, including overcrowded and 
substandard housing, limited access to employment 
opportunities, and poor transportation options,'' close quote.
    So is it safe to say that there is a connection between 
affordable housing, good public transportation, and employment 
opportunities?
    Mr. Greene. Thank you, Senator. I think there is ample 
research demonstrating that.
    Senator Menendez. And should Congress and HUD need to take 
transportation access into account when designing affordable 
housing policy?
    Mr. Greene. Thank you, Senator. I am a strong believer in 
interagency collaboration. The challenges that communities face 
on the ground are complex and interrelated. The more that we, 
at the Federal level, can work across agencies to align 
housing, education, transportation policy to support 
communities in achieving their goals, I think the better. If I 
was fortunate enough to be confirmed I would welcome the 
opportunity to----
    Senator Menendez. Well, upon your confirmation I want you 
to look at the Livable Communities Act that I, and a series of 
my colleagues, have introduced. It creates a grant program to 
incentivize the coordinated development of affordable housing 
and transit.
    And one final question. Ms. Gordon, unless the last 
Administration HUD relocated key multifamily housing staff from 
its office in Newark to the New York regional office. This, 
combined with the fact that HUD has never had a Region 2 
administrator from New Jersey, going back at least 25 years, 
troubles me, because it suggests HUD is not prioritizing New 
Jersey's housing needs. And as a former mayor I can tell you, 
that presents a significant challenge.
    If you are confirmed, will you ensure that the Newark 
office has the staff it needs and that New Jersey remains a 
priority at HUD?
    Ms. Gordon. Thank you, Senator, for that question. 
Absolutely. If confirmed, I will make sure that every State has 
the personnel it needs, but especially New Jersey, because my 
husband is from New Jersey, and we are----
    Senator Menendez. Well, then the case is closed. Thank you 
very much. I will introduce the rest of my questions for the 
record, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Senator Menendez. I would remind 
my colleagues that the letter from Mr. Montgomery that Senator 
Menendez mentioned was sent after the Toomey letter was 
released.
    Senator Scott is recognized, from South Carolina.
    Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 
holding this very important hearing. I will say that my 
colleagues to the left have had a number of opportunities to 
ask questions of nominees before this Committee that had 
nothing to do with the issues of this Committee so many times 
that I cannot even remember the number of times I have had to 
sit through Banking hearing, hour after hour, listening to 
folks go on about things that have nothing to do with this 
Committee. I would say that the comments that have been made by 
these noms, or at least a couple of them, tweeting about the 
police, have everything to do with housing.
    The fact of the matter is, housing is incredibly important, 
but safety in the place where you live is number one. And so 
when you have folks talking about defunding the police, you are 
actually making the housing issue, and the desire for home 
ownership and for a good, safe place to live, issue number one. 
I cannot imagine something more important than safety in the 
place where you live. And having lived in some of the poorest 
parts of South Carolina, I can tell you firsthand that the one 
thing no one living in the communities where I grew up is 
asking for defunding the police. Not a single person. Not one.
    I will say this, that you look at the most recent polls and 
surveys done, more than 80 percent of the African Americans--I 
think it is 81 percent--has said very clearly they want the 
same level of policing, or more policing, and that is 
consistent throughout every demographic in this country.
    And so while we can make this into a political issue, this 
is an issue that impacts real people, in real places, that feel 
insecure and unsure about where they live, and they want the 
same dignity and respect where they live. And so for us to take 
this as a simple political issue is, frankly, inconsistent with 
the reality faced by so many people, who simply want to come 
home to a safe place. And while it is really easy to have a 
conversation, not living in those communities, about people in 
those communities, I think it is wrong. I think it is wrong, 
and not only do I think it is wrong, you can look at what is 
happening all across the country, and those folks who wanted to 
defund the police are now trying to find a way to re-fund the 
police.
    You think about Minneapolis, with a 90 percent increase in 
violent crime and homicides. You think about the fact that they 
are now saying, ``Wait a second. Cutting the police may have 
been a really bad idea.'' In Baltimore there are almost 400 
officers in a shortage. They have 392 positions to be filled, 
more than a dozen detective positions vacant. What is happening 
in Baltimore? The crime is up. And what is the City Council 
saying? They are saying, ``Well, last year we cut it by $22 
million. This year let's increase it by $28 million.'' Why? 
Because they understand that putting poor people in a place 
without security is immoral. It is wrong.
    And so for us to have this conversation, as if it is just a 
conversation, because we are sitting in one of the safest 
places in the United States, is ridiculous, in my opinion. We 
should take serious our words. We can actually lead people to 
more violent activities, because when leaders say something, 
people listen. And if you want to lead, take that 
responsibility seriously, very serious.
    Think about New York City just elected a new person, who 
said, ``You are not defunding my police. We are going to 
actually add more policing.'' Residents of New York City, 
Oakland, Baltimore, Minneapolis, Los Angeles all are trying to 
reinstate millions, tens of millions of dollars in policing.
    And so when I hear Mr. Greene tweet ``No more money for 
police,'' I think about the kid I was, living in the 
neighborhoods that I lived in, where the police presence was 
necessary. It was essential. And so I do not think about this 
from the politics of left and right. I think about this as 
average American people, who are vulnerable, who need help, who 
have worked hard, living paycheck to paycheck, and they want 
more policing.
    So, Mr. Greene, would you like a chance to restate your 
position on defunding the police, or give me better context for 
it, because I have got to say, it is an issue.
    Mr. Greene. Senator Scott, I could not agree with you more, 
and I share your commitment to the health and safety of all 
residents, residents in assisted housing, residents in the 
market. And I have worked in so many of the cities that you 
have mentioned to support improvements to communities, 
reinvestment in communities, in ways that make them safer.
    I want to reemphasize and make it abundantly clear, the 
words that you said, ``No more money for the police,'' were 
populated on my tweet when I shared an idea and I shared 
others' viewpoints. I regret if that is interpreted as my 
opinion, and when I tweeted it at the time I do not think it 
would have been interpreted that way.
    I mean, I also do not think about this as the politics of 
left and right. As I said, one of my priorities, actually, my 
number one priority, if I was fortunate enough to be confirmed, 
would be to harness the incredible talent at the Office of 
Policy Development and Research to better understand the needs 
and priorities of people in communities on the ground.
    So thank you so much for your commitment. It is a 
commitment I share.
    Senator Scott. Mr. Chairman, I know I am out of time. I am 
just going to finish with this statement right here. I will 
tell you that I will debate anybody on funding the people at a 
proper level any day, anywhere, at any time, period.
    I will say this as well. The reality of this is simply as I 
work through police reform and I think about the issues and the 
comments made by so many people who have the advantage of 
sitting comfortably in a place, talking to others through their 
accounts, I think about those people who are literally, 
desperately looking for leadership, because for them it is 
about life and death. It is not about politics. It is about 
life and death. And I take that seriously, because I have been 
in those positions.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Senator Scott. Senator Tester 
from Montana is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Senator Tester. Yeah, thank you, Chairman Brown, and I want 
to welcome our witnesses, and I want to thank you for your 
willingness to serve. COVID-19 has only underscored the 
importance of addressing our housing challenges and the 
important work that you are nominated to do at HUD.
    Similarly, over the last year-and-a-half, facing this 
health and economic crisis has highlighted the work and 
sacrifices Montana and our Nation's law enforcement officers, 
first responders, and their families make every day to keep us 
safe. And this year, in particular, since January 6th, which we 
might think this is the safest place in the world but I am 
still shaken to the core by what has happened there, and the 
lack of any sort of investigation to find out what has happened 
so this will not happen again, we have seen up close what the 
risks and sacrifices can mean for women and men who protect us 
right here in the Capitol every day as we hold hearings like 
this one, and we go to votes.
    It is my colleagues' and my duty to ensure that we are 
meeting the first responders' needs during changing and 
challenging times, whether that is by making sure that our cops 
and firefighters can stay on the beat by allowing towns and 
counties to recruit pandemic revenue losses, as we passed in 
the American Rescue Plan, or by cutting red tape for the 
families of fallen officers to access their earned benefits. 
Our police and first responders need the Government to defend 
them, not by just words but providing them with the tools and 
the money to do tough jobs safely and efficiently.
    Now housing is also a critical issue, in my home State and 
across the country, and you all are nominated for positions at 
the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and I want to 
have time to ask you about that. But first, I want to ask you a 
very simple question, and you were sworn, under oath, before 
this Committee started. So quickly, just a yes or no, do you 
support Defund the Police?
    Mr. Greene. No, I do not, Senator.
    Mr. Uejio. No, I do not, Senator.
    Ms. Gordon. No, I do not.
    Senator Tester. So if, in fact, these folks are lying, they 
are perjuring themselves, then I would suggest take appropriate 
action. Otherwise, take them at their word, because that is 
what they said, under oath, right now, today, in this Committee 
meeting.
    So look, we have got challenges of housing around Montana 
for a long time. It has gotten worse during the pandemic. There 
are areas of the State where there is not enough affordable 
housing, but there are also places without housing available at 
any price point.
    I know there is no silver bullet to fix this, but I am 
curious about what each of you see as your priorities, if 
confirmed, to start addressing the housing challenges that we 
are seeing all across this country. Now I am talking not only 
availability but I am talking affordability.
    You can go first, Ms. Gordon.
    Ms. Gordon. Thank you, Senator, for that excellent 
question, and thank you for the work we have done in the past 
on housing finance reform issues. In Montana, you are facing 
these twin issues when it comes to supply--we do need more 
availability. There are many ways we can look at that. One 
thing I would like to look at, if I were confirmed, is to look 
at how manufactured housing can play more of a role in the 
solution toolbox.
    But I will also talk about areas, you know, such as, say, 
Bozeman, Montana, where you have an influx of a lot of people 
coming in and buying homes with cash, and I think it is driving 
up prices. So it is important not just to push on supply but 
really to make sure that typical families that want to buy with 
financing are able to do that, and that would be a priority of 
mine, if I were confirmed to FHA.
    Senator Tester. Mr. Uejio.
    Mr. Uejio. Thank you for the question, Senator. If I were 
fortunate enough to be confirmed at FHEO, it would be my role 
to ensure all consumers are protected from discrimination in 
housing. Now I have had conversations with folks in rural 
communities, with folks from Tribal nations, and I am aware 
that those protections are not always well known, even by folks 
on the ground. And it would be my top priority at FHEO to 
really strengthen the infrastructure of the office and ensure 
people knew that they could file complaints of discrimination 
with it, and with our fair housing partners, to address it 
wherever it exists.
    Senator Tester. Mr. Greene.
    Mr. Greene. Thank you so much for the question, Senator, 
and I appreciate the extraordinary housing needs in your State 
and across the country. And I am going to give what may sound 
like a remarkably researcher response, but it is data. Data is 
so essential to meeting both the supply and demand side 
challenges. I have written extensively about gaps in data 
knowledge, about the effect of local land use and other 
regulations that can strain supply. We need better data to be 
able to come up with better policy solutions.
    My colleagues at the Urban Institute have written 
extensively about the lack of data on housing needs in rural 
communities, particularly. We need better data in order to 
address those needs.
    And on manufactured housing, such an essential part of our 
affordable housing stock, particularly in rural communities. We 
need better data about what the barriers are to providing more 
of it, and what are the challenges in the existing stock.
    But I am not content to leave it with data. If I was 
confirmed, I would want to apply the best available data, 
research, and evidence to problem-solving, and work very 
closely with you and the Committee on that.
    Senator Tester. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Senator Tester. Senator Warren 
is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Senator Warren. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and 
congratulations to each of you for your nominations. I know you 
have each received well-deserved support from leaders all 
around this country.
    Mr. Uejio, you have been endorsed by leading Asian 
American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander organizations, 
by dozens of civil rights, community, consumer, and small 
business organizations. I know that you will bring extensive 
management experience to this role and are well prepared to 
help rebuild the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity 
to ensure that the office can meet its critical mission. I 
enthusiastically support your nomination and I look forward to 
your swift confirmation.
    Now all of you here today are nominated to deal with 
housing issues, so I want to talk a little bit about housing. 
In fact, I want to take us back to the 2008 financial crash. 
Between 2007 and 2010, there were an estimated 3.8 million 
foreclosures. The recession hit Black families the hardest, 
wiping out nearly all of the growth in Black home ownership 
since the Fair Housing Act back in the 1960s. Black and Latino 
families' wealth plummeted.
    The crash devastated families, but not everyone got hurt. 
Private equity firms had a giant payday. Between 2011 and 2017, 
large corporate investors purchased more than 200,000 homes, 
turning homes that had once been owned by families into poorly 
managed rental properties, and turning private equity firms 
into predatory landlords.
    This massive transfer of wealth from families to 
corporations got a helping hand from the Federal Government. 
The Federal Housing Administration, FHA, started bundling 
distressed mortgages from different parts of the country and 
putting them up for auction.
    Ms. Gordon, say a family renting a home down the street 
from a foreclosed FHA property wanted to buy that property and 
become a homeowner. Would they have been able to do so through 
the program that the FHA set up to sell pools of distressed 
mortgages?
    Ms. Gordon. Thank you, Senator, for that question, and the 
answer is no, they would not. That is not how these homes were 
sold. There were several different kinds of bulk sales that 
happened after the crisis, both by FHA and by Fannie Mae and 
Freddie Mac, bulk sales of properties that had already been 
foreclosed on, which also were sold to investors, and bulk 
sales of what we called non-performing loans, which, you know, 
are held by somebody else, managed by somebody else, and in 
many cases, as you mentioned, never returned to owner occupancy 
because they are then used for rental because it is brings more 
a cash-flow for the investor.
    Senator Warren. So here we have these homes, that had been 
owned by families, the family gets into trouble and another 
family, under FHA policies, was not able to buy the loan, but 
private equity could.
    You know, this was a policy that was great for the 
Blackstones of the world, great for giant investors, but it 
shut out families, and it shut out community organizations. It 
did not have to turn out that way. The FHA wrote the rules.
    So let me ask, Ms. Gordon, if confirmed, you would be in 
charge of those rules. Why is it important for FHA to 
prioritize making distressed homes available for homeowners to 
purchase?
    Mr. Greene. The answer is because we have a shortage of 
homes right now for people who want to buy them, which is 
driving up prices and making them even less affordable. I will 
note that HUD has a program called Good Neighbor Next Door, and 
I know it might seem surprising that I am about to bring up the 
police again, but this is actually a program that provides 
police and other first responders and teachers with discounted 
homes. And actually that program has languished because of some 
of the changes that have been made in how HUD disposes of 
homes.
    Senator Warren. Good. Good. So I want to see us move in 
this direction, if I can. I just want to focus on one program 
for a moment, Mr. Chair, FHA's Claims Without Conveyance of 
Title program. About half of all distressed properties are 
being sold through it, and right now it is doing the opposite 
of prioritizing owner occupants. You know, the program feels 
like the financial crisis response all over again. Properties 
are sold on private auction websites that are not accessible to 
the average family, sometimes with cash-only listings. And the 
program bypasses existing protections that give homeowners and 
nonprofits a first-look period for homes.
    So this one is simple--just a yes or no here, Ms. Gordon--
if confirmed, do you commit to evaluating the Claims Without 
Conveyance of Title program and considering change that 
facilitate sales to homeowners rather than to private equity?
    Ms. Gordon. Yes, I do.
    Senator Warren. Good. I appreciate this. Ms. Gordon, you 
have been a trusted housing policy leader, and you will bring 
significant expertise and experience to this role. I look 
forward to the opportunity to work together to help families 
and to stabilize neighborhoods, and look forward to your speedy 
confirmation.
    I did not have time for questions here for everyone, but 
based on our conversations, and based on your extraordinary 
public service, I strongly support all of your nominations and 
look forward to our making that happen quickly.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Senator Warren. Senator Van 
Hollen of Maryland is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and 
congratulations to all of you on your nominations. Ms. Gordon, 
very proud to have you as a Marylander, and I know that the 
Chairman mentioned earlier the 115 organizations that are 
supporting your nominations, and I know many others are as 
well, in our State. And those, of course, include the National 
Housing Conference, the Mortgage Bankers Association, 
Enterprise Partners, and many others. So thank you for your 
deep experience, and all of you bring that experience.
    In fact, I am going to start with you, Mr. Greene, given 
your experience in good research at the Urban Institute. I 
fully agree with the efforts to increase the supply of 
affordable housing, by using subsidies to build out more homes 
for more people. But I also think it is important we do not 
forget the demand side as we work through these challenges.
    As you know, millions of low-income households struggle to 
pay rent and need a housing voucher or other rental assistance 
to secure stable housing and make ends meet and give their 
children a better chance of success. The majority of people in 
these households are children, seniors, or people with 
disabilities, more than 60 percent are people with color, and 
close to three-fourths of these households have extremely low 
incomes, below the poverty line, or 30 percent of the local 
median income.
    So as we work to build out the supply of affordable 
housing, would you agree that it is also important that we 
expand the number of affordable housing vouchers that we 
provide?
    Mr. Greene. Thank you so much for the question, Senator, 
and fortunately my research focuses not just on addressing 
supply but also demand side issues, and so I am grateful to be 
joined this morning by a colleague, Martha Galvez, who I have 
written about some of the challenges facing housing choice 
voucher holders and how we might overcome them using case 
studies and new data we have created.
    So absolutely, and I have written, as well, about the need 
to balance and address both demand and supply issues. And I 
think, to your question of expanding the housing choice voucher 
program, we do know that essentially the voucher program, like 
other forms of Federal assistance, is essentially a lottery. 
The vast majority of people today who qualify for Federal 
assistance, rental assistance, including vouchers, simply do 
not receive it.
    So if I was fortunate enough to be confirmed, I would want 
to take a closer look at what are some of the ways that we can 
fill that enormous gap, help more people achieve stable and 
affordable housing, and I do think the housing choice voucher 
program is an absolutely essential tool to do that.
    Senator Van Hollen. I appreciate your testimony, and, you 
know, I know the Chairman and Ranking Member have heard me say 
this before, but Senator Young and I have introduced 
legislation, the Family Stability and Opportunity Vouchers Act, 
which would make 500,000 housing mobility vouchers available 
over the next 5 years, that will allow families with mostly 
young kids to move to areas of opportunity. And I think the 
research demonstrates clearly that this has helped with 
families out of poverty and given the next generation much 
greater opportunities.
    Ms. Gordon, I see in your testimony you have focused your 
remarks on the supply side, which, as I said, I think is a very 
important piece to it. But as you take this new position, will 
you agree that we also need to expand our efforts on the demand 
side by making sure that very low-income people have access to 
a place to call home? Because I think most of the evidence 
shows that even if we are successful, as I think we will be, at 
expanding the supply of affordable housing for very low-income 
people, that still may be out of reach. So what do you think 
about the demand side as well?
    Ms. Gordon. Well, thank you for that question, and I should 
note it is an honor and a pleasure to be your constituent. 
Absolutely, we have to work on both sides at the same time. The 
demand side, of course, for rental, the rents are too high, and 
that is going to require production, but it is also going to 
require creativity in how we support people in rental.
    And when it comes to home ownership, I do believe that low-
income people can achieve home ownership. In fact, I just 
launched a new project in Baltimore where we are working on 
both sides of this at the same time. We are providing capital 
to local, small, minority developers who are developing home, 
and because they are going to get a subsidy to develop it is 
going to help keep the price down. And then those home are 
reserved for low- and moderate-income homeowners.
    So I think there is a lot we can do on both sides, and I 
really appreciate your interest in that issue.
    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Senator Van Hollen. Senator 
Smith is recognized for 5 minutes, from Minnesota.
    Senator Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Ranking Member 
Toomey, and welcome to our panelists. Though I have been in and 
out of the room I have been watching from my office when I 
could, so I am just so grateful for your willingness to serve 
our country and to bring your amazing experience and 
credentials to these extremely important roles.
    Ms. Gordon, I would like to start with you. I was so 
pleased to see such a broad array of organizations supporting 
your nomination, from the Urban League to the Mortgage Bankers 
to Habitat for Humanity, have all endorsed your nomination. You 
know, these groups from all across the country believe that you 
do possess the skills that we need in this moment, in this very 
important role, as they do for the others on our panel. So it 
is wonderful to be able to have a chance to support your 
nomination.
    When we spoke we talked a little bit about the issues of 
home ownership disparity. So in my State, Minnesota is a 
relatively prosperous and progressive State. But in the Twin 
Cities, where I live, the home ownership rate is 70 percent for 
White families but only about 21 percent for Black families. 
This is the highest gap in home ownership in the entire 
country, and it has gotten worse, not better, recently, with 
Black home ownership rates dropping from about 31 percent to 21 
percent in the last two decades.
    So this is a huge priority for me. It is essential to 
address if we want to get at the fundamental inequalities 
around wealth. Let me just ask you, what do you see you can do, 
we can do, in this moment to address this great disparity in 
home ownership?
    Ms. Gordon. Thank you so much for that question, and I am 
going to give two part to my answer. The most important thing 
we can do right now is to prevent more families from losing 
their homes. We know that COVID has impacted communities of 
color and families of color more than other communities. And 
these are where people are at risk, and if FHA can manage 
through this process and keep people in their homes we will be, 
you know, at least not losing ground, and that is critically 
important.
    In terms of beginning to gain ground, I wish there were one 
silver bullet. I actually think we need to have an array of 
policies, you know, whether it is looking at small-balance 
mortgages, whether it is looking at other housing types, such 
as manufactured housing, whether it is looking at issues 
related to the fact that most Black families approach home 
ownership with less family wealth to depend on, or whether it 
is looking at issues around valuation as the interagency 
commission looking at appraisals is now doing.
    We are going to have to go at all of these things to try to 
make a difference in something that has been a really 
persistent problem. You know, Minneapolis has been a leader 
with changing its zoning, which is going to be very important 
both on that supply side and on that side of providing access 
to affordable housing for all the families who live there.
    Senator Smith. The innovation that Minneapolis has pursued 
with their inclusionary zoning policies, I do think is a model 
for the country, in terms of reducing barriers to building 
affordable housing. Several of us on the Democratic side have 
been talking about this challenge of supply and how that is 
creating an additional challenge right now.
    Now again, in my hometown of Minneapolis, we look at the 
decline in home ownership amongst families of color, and I 
think about what happened back in 2008-2009, when homes that 
were owned by Black families, they were foreclosed up on 
because they were preyed upon, with subprime mortgages. And 
what happened, those houses were bought up by outside entities, 
and we see that happening here again today. This is an issue 
that Senator Warren brought up at the end of her questions.
    In Minnesota, all over the place, but especially in north 
Minneapolis, one large private equity firm has bought up 
hundreds of homes, turning them into permanent rental 
properties and thereby reducing the supply of homes that could 
be purchased.
    Talk to us a little bit about what we could do to address 
this challenge.
    Ms. Gordon. Sure. That is a challenge that we are seeing in 
a lot of places right now, especially as the way we transact 
housing is evolving from the old system, where you just went to 
the Multiple Listing Service and all the houses were there. 
There is a lot more happening now on auction websites, a lot 
more transactions that are limited to just cash, and what is 
happening is that is locking typical families, not just low-
income families, middle-class families out of home ownership.
    And so if I were confirmed, I would want to take a look at 
what we can do to, you know, help families both achieve home 
ownership and, you know, in the face of any economic challenges 
maintain that home ownership.
    Senator Smith. Well, good. I am glad to hear that. You 
clearly understand that these issue are complicated. It is a 
supply issue and a demand issue, but fundamentally the housing 
market is not working for so many families, particularly 
families of color. So I look forward to supporting all of your 
nominations, and thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Senator Smith. Senator Ossoff of 
Georgia is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member 
Toomey, and thank you to our panel. Congratulations on your 
nominations.
    Ms. Gordon, I would like to discuss with you the importance 
of transit-oriented development and the particular needs of the 
State of Georgia and the metro Atlanta region. Brookings 
Institution study found that just 22 percent of jobs in the 
Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta metro area were accessible by 
transit in 2018. The Atlanta region's expected population 
growth through 2050 is equivalent to the current population of 
Denver, Colorado. I have been persistently advocating, in 
discussions with the Secretary of Transportation, and I think 
Chairman Brown can attest to my persistence in our 
conversations as well, about the need for a transformative 
investment in transit infrastructure in the State of Georgia.
    First of all, your thoughts generally on transit-oriented 
development, and will you commit to working with me, if 
confirmed, to ensure that housing policy that affects the 
Atlanta region and the State of Georgia, is linked with our 
infrastructure and transit policy to improve quality of life 
and make sure that working-class families, in particular, have 
access to the transportation solutions necessary for effective 
mobility to reduce traffic gridlock and expand economic 
opportunity.
    Ms. Gordon. Senator, I will absolutely commit to working 
with you on it. I believe transit-oriented development is good 
for the economy, good for the environment, and good for equity. 
And I would be delighted to work with your office on this set 
of issues.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Ms. Gordon. I appreciate that.
    I would like to ask you, Mr. Green, Senator Smith just 
raised the issue of private equity and other financial services 
institutions and companies buying up a significant share of 
U.S. housing stock for purposes of managing it as rental 
property. Could you give us an assessment of the causes, the 
drivers of that dynamic, and could you comment specifically on 
whether there is a link with monetary policy, the expansion of 
the money supply, injection of liquidity into capital markets, 
increasing cash reserves for major banking institutions and 
private equity hedge funds, which are then driving much of that 
capital into these investments?
    Mr. Greene. Yeah, thank you for the question, Senator. I do 
recognize the tremendous challenges and the risk of loss of 
home ownership in so many communities across the country, 
particularly communities of color. And I think one of the main 
causes currently is the financial hardship on existing 
homeowners, and I agree with my colleague that the first line 
of defense, really, is to be able to help people keep their 
homes and not be forced into a situation where they have to 
sell to a private equity firm. So I think that is one of the 
main causes.
    I appreciate your question about the link to the monetary 
supply. I do not have an answer for you. It would be something 
that I would want to take a hard look, if I was fortunate 
enough to be confirmed. I am familiar with some of those 
dynamics in the wake of the 2008 foreclosure crisis, and had 
done some work at that point, but I would want to take a look 
at what is currently happening in that regard.
    But I completely agree with the need for better 
understanding of what the current dynamics are, and for HUD and 
the Federal Government to do the best it can to help keep 
people in their homes and preserve home ownership.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Greene. And with respect to 
the housing affordability crisis, which is felt acutely across 
my State, this is really a question for all three of you. If 
confirmed, will you commit to me that you will come to the 
State of Georgia, that you will visit with elected and 
community leaders in Atlanta, in Savannah, in Augusta, in 
Columbus, to help assess what is driving the affordability 
crisis in my State, and to work with community leaders to 
develop solutions? Beginning with you, Ms. Gordon, please.
    Ms. Gordon. Absolutely. If I am confirmed I would love to 
visit your State. I think it is incredibly important for 
leadership in our agencies to travel around the country. You 
get such a good feel for things that way. And I do love the 
State of Georgia.
    Mr. Uejio. Thank you, Senator. I would be delighted to join 
in your State, to really get a firsthand look. I have always 
believed that policymaking driven by those who are closest to 
the experience of vulnerable people is policymaking that is 
good for the country.
    Mr. Greene. Yeah, thank you, Senator. I would be delighted. 
I absolutely commit, and as I stated earlier, one of my top 
priorities for the Office of Policy Development and Research 
would be to have research that reflects and captures the 
experiences of people in communities on the ground, and one of 
the best ways to do that is to have leadership actually visit 
those places. So absolutely.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you. I hope to have the chance to 
welcome you and to establish this task force on affordable 
housing in the State of Georgia.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Senator Ossoff, and I love your 
State too, because of my mother, as you know.
    Senator Cortez Masto from Nevada is recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Well, I would hope that 
once you are nominated and appointed to these positions that 
you do not forget Nevada. So we will look forward to having you 
come out to Nevada. I love Georgia, but as somebody who was 
born and raised in Nevada, we want you to see what we have to 
offer and the challenges that we have around housing as well.
    So let me just say, I am so thrilled that President Biden 
has nominated really three housing experts with decades of 
experience to serve our Nation's families and communities at 
the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Ms. Gordon, 
Mr. Uejio, thank you for the conversation. Thank you for your 
willingness, all three of you, to serve, and your focus on 
really what we have been touching on today, which is the 
necessity around housing, fair housing, and making sure 
everybody has that opportunity to have a roof over their head.
    Let me start with one conversation--first-time homebuyers. 
We have been talking about this, Ms. Gordon. You and I talked 
about this. Nationally, the median existing home price is 
$363,000. That is in June. It is up 23 percent from a year 
earlier. It is a challenge for us. And we have had this 
conversation about really what can FHA do to ensure that we are 
helping first-time homebuyers, knowing that the price has 
risen, and knowing that we have, in Nevada, a number of Black 
and Latino homebuyers who are really unable to even purchase 
their first home. I am curious your thoughts on what we should 
be doing.
    Ms. Gordon. Thank you so much for that question. You have 
put your finger on one of the troubling things in the market 
today. The pace of home price appreciation is--I think the 
technical term is ``insane.'' And we are going to need to go at 
that both from the supply side and the demand side. You know, 
clearly we are facing a shortage of inventory, particularly in 
those lower-value band, that first-time homebuyers can afford.
    That is what I see in the communities I work in now. There 
may be, you know, more house at that $750,000 price point, but 
that is not where most families can start. And that is the area 
where there is, you know, more competition with cash, and it is 
going to be important to make sure that if people do sell their 
homes that those homes can be accessible to potentially other 
owner-occupants, other families who are able to find out about 
that transaction and not just have it happen, you know, perhaps 
on a website that, you know, they do not have the cash to go 
and use.
    We are going to have to build. I think the Neighborhood 
Homes Investment Act, if it were to be passed, would really 
enable significant new construction and rehab of vacant homes 
in some of the communities that are more affordable to first-
time homebuyers. But at the same time, we will have to look at 
what we can do on the demand side, you know, how do we help 
people get into mortgages? How do we make sure that when 
someone does find an affordable home that there is a lender 
willing to do that mortgage when they could spend their time 
doing a more expensive mortgage? You know, that is a really 
tough issue that we are going to need to grapple with.
    FHA has begun to look at that issue. I would like to look 
at it more. And just, you know, making sure that people are not 
locked out of home ownership just because they are a first-
generation homebuyer, you know, as I was. You know, we all have 
personal stories. I was fortunate to marry somebody who had 
done the smart thing and bought a home in his 20s, with an FHA 
mortgage. And I think we can be creative and all work together.
    I think the lending industry is powerfully interested in 
these questions, and I believe we are positioned to bring 
together an unprecedented coalition of stakeholders to work on 
these important issues.
    Senator Cortez Masto. I could not agree more, and I so 
appreciate your comments. And I want to note, that is why I 
suspect the National Association of Realtors, the Mortgage 
Bankers Association, the National Housing Conference, and more 
than 100 other organizations out there see you as a leader and 
support this nomination. I do think it is important we all come 
together to address this issue.
    With the leader's indulgence, I have one more question.
    Chairman Brown. Of course.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Uejio, 
let me talk to you about fair housing. You mentioned that your 
father-in-law, in our conversation, struggled to find housing 
after he became disabled. If confirmed to lead HUD's Office of 
Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, how will you ensure that 
the office can handle complaints of discrimination based on 
disability?
    Mr. Uejio. Thank you so much for that question, Senator, 
and for your leadership, more broadly, on issues of fair 
housing. Rightly so, I think there is much that can be done to 
build upon the existing infrastructure in the Office of Fair 
Housing and Equal Opportunity to really ensure that that office 
is positioned to hear complaints from everyone's constituents 
about discrimination that they suspect, on all of the protected 
bases, whether they are servicemembers and veterans, whether 
they are disabled, or whether they are experiencing 
discrimination based on sexual orientation, gender, or familial 
status. They need and deserve a strong FHEO that they can hear 
from, a process they can navigate, and a commitment from that 
office to handle their complaints timely and work with our fair 
housing partners all across the country to address 
discrimination wherever it is present.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Wonderful. Thank you. And again, I 
look forward to working with you on these issues and others. 
And again, I know this has probably been noted, but I have seen 
so many letters of support for your nomination as well, 
including the National Coalition of Asian Pacific Americans for 
Community Development and the Asian Americans Advancing 
Justice. So I think, really, all three of you--and Mr. Greene, 
I am running out of time and I did not have time to ask you a 
question, but there is no doubt in my mind you all have the 
background and experience to really do these positions that you 
have been nominated for. And if you are appointed I look 
forward to working with all three of you. Thank you again.
    Chairman Brown. Thank you, Senator Cortez Masto. Thanks to 
the nominees for being here today and providing testimony. It 
was a full and useful discussion of the issues. I hope to move 
quickly forward on Ms. Gordon, Mr. Uejio, and Mr. Greene's 
nominations after returning from the August break, when we are 
back in September.
    For Senators who wish to submit questions for the hearing 
record those questions are due at the close of business on 
Monday, August 9. For the three of you, we would like to have 
your responses by noon on Friday, August 13.
    Thank you again. The Committee is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:43 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Prepared statements, biographical sketches of nominees, 
responses to written questions, and additional material 
supplied for the record follow:]
              PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN SHERROD BROWN
    Today, we will consider three nominations for critical roles at the 
Department of Housing and Urban Development.
    Julia Gordon has been nominated to serve as Assistant Secretary of 
Housing and Commissioner of the Federal Housing Administration.
    Ms. Gordon currently serves as president of the National Community 
Stabilization Trust, a nonprofit organization that supports 
neighborhood revitalization and affordable home ownership.
    Previously, Ms. Gordon served as the manager of the single-family 
policy team at the Federal Housing Finance Agency, working to help 
families stay in their homes following the 2008 financial crisis.
    If confirmed, Ms. Gordon would lead the Federal Housing 
Administration, or FHA. As Commissioner of FHA, Ms. Gordon would play a 
pivotal role in helping thousands of homeowners weather this pandemic 
and stay in their homes.
    Welcome, Ms. Gordon.
    David Uejio is the President's nominee to serve as Assistant 
Secretary for Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity.
    Mr. Uejio currently serves as Acting Director of the Consumer 
Financial Protection Bureau. Previously, Mr. Uejio served in different 
roles in public service at NIH, OPM, and DOD.
    As Assistant Secretary for Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, Mr. 
Uejio would oversee the implementation and enforcement of laws that 
protect homeowners and renters from housing discrimination.
    We are glad to have you here today, Mr. Uejio.
    Finally, we welcome Mr. Solomon Greene. Mr. Greene is the 
President's nominee to serve as Assistant Secretary for Policy 
Development and Research.
    Mr. Greene currently serves as a senior fellow at the Urban 
Institute, where he leads research into fair housing, and how we lift 
up all residents by creating economic growth in our communities.
    Mr. Greene previously served as Senior Advisor at HUD, a litigation 
associate at a major law firm, and an adjunct professor at NYU's Wagner 
Graduate School of Public Service.
    As the head of Policy Development and Research, Mr. Greene will 
lead HUD's research and provide data on housing and community 
development issues that will help inform policy decisions.
    These nominees have strong records in housing policy and 
management. They will bring their breadth of experience to HUD at a 
time when our country needs it most.
    That's what our hearing should focus on today. So I'm disappointed 
that the Ranking Member has instead decided to attack these public 
servants and spread misinformation.
    These nominees have already responded to Senator Toomey--they did 
it on Monday, and their own words made it clear they support the 
police. Every Democrat in the Senate, and President Biden, all 
supported the American Rescue Plan, which provided critical funding to 
local police departments--because of course we support the police. I'm 
disappointed the Ranking Member continues to act otherwise.
    I wish my Republican colleagues would put as much effort into 
bringing down the cost of housing for families as they do into this 
political theatre.
    The Ohioans I talk to are exhausted by this kind of division and 
distraction.
    And they're certainly not worried about some retweet from a year 
ago. People want to know what we're going to do--those in Government, 
and those in Congress--to make their lives better.
    Today's nominees have been selected to provide their expertise at 
important agencies that are doing real work--work that has the 
potential to bring down people's rents, and to help more families get a 
mortgage for their first home and join the middle class.
    And unlike many of the unqualified nominees in the previous 
Administration that came before this Committee, today's nominees have 
the experience and preparation to make real progress.
    I want to know today from these nominees--what will they do to make 
it easier for Ohioans and people around the country to afford a home? 
What will they do to root out discrimination in housing? What will they 
do to find creative solutions to the housing challenges families face 
in communities large and small, urban, and rural?
    Let's do our jobs today, and focus on the results Americans care 
about, and expect from their public servants.
    Thank you to all of these nominees for your willingness to serve.
    I look forward to your testimonies today.
    I'd like to enter into the record letters of support that the 
Committee has received for the nominees.
                                 ______
                                 
            PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR PATRICK J. TOOMEY
    Mr. Chairman, thank you.
    Under both Presidents Obama and Biden, I've repeatedly supported 
nominees who had the necessary experience, temperament, and policy 
views to serve. Unfortunately, the nominees before us today--who have 
been nominated for seniors positions at HUD--do not meet all of these 
important criteria.
    My objection to these nominees is not because they issued offensive 
tweets, it's because of what those tweets, and their own writings in 
other mediums, tell us about what they believe.
    Let's consider Solomon Greene. He's repeatedly made troubling 
statements denigrating the police and advocating for the defunding of 
the police. Some of these statements he made on Twitter. But others he 
made in an article he himself wrote just last June.
    In that article, he alleged that ``overpolicing'' endangers 
communities of color, and he advocated for ''recapturing funding for 
the police''--a euphemism for defunding the police--and reallocating 
that funding to other uses, such as ``community arts and cultural 
institutions'' at a time when crime rates in America's major cities are 
on the rise.
    These views are so outside the political mainstream that they 
disqualify him from holding a senior leadership position at HUD.
    Equally concerning are Julia Gordon's past statements. Ms. Gordon, 
among other things, retweeted a post that described police officers as 
``the people killing us.'' She also suggested in a letter that she 
wrote--not a tweet or a retweet--that police violence stems from 
``flawed and biased systems that require structural change.''
    Additionally, Ms. Gordon disparaged elected Republican officials. 
For example, she attacked Senator Lindsey Graham as ``desperate'' and 
``#LyingLindsey.''
    In my view, these and other troubling statements are clearly 
outside the political mainstream and disqualify her from serving in a 
senior position at HUD.
    Unfortunately, we don't know the full extent of Mr. Greene and Ms. 
Gordon's public statements because they deleted some of their 
previously public tweets before being nominated. I asked them to try to 
recover their deleted tweets from Twitter. But they've refused to 
comply with this reasonable request. It makes you wonder: What do they 
have to hide?
    As the Senate evaluates nominees' fitness for senior leadership 
positions, it's important the public has a full picture of their policy 
views, judgment, and character. A nominee's past public statements 
matter, and a nominee should not be able to avoid scrutiny by merely 
clicking a button marked delete.
    All of the Republicans on this Committee have written to President 
Biden asking him to withdraw Mr. Greene and Ms. Gordon's nominations 
because of their past anti-police statements. And we are not alone in 
our concern. The National Sheriffs' Association, which represents 
thousands of sheriffs across the country, has written letters opposing 
both of these nominees.
    Mr. Uejio also has a record that makes him unqualified to serve in 
a senior position at HUD. As CFPB Acting Director, he's publicly 
promoted the view that our criminal justice system, which includes 
police officers, is infected with ``latent, structural racism.''
    Beyond that, what's most troubling about his record is his lack of 
housing experience, especially on fair housing issues. He's been 
nominated to run HUD's fair housing office, which is responsible for 
protecting households from housing discrimination. Yet nothing in his 
background suggests that he has the experience or qualifications to 
enforce and administer the Nation's fair housing laws.
    He's served as CFPB Acting Director for only a few months. But in 
that short time he's reportedly taken concerning personnel actions, 
refused to provide information to Congress, ignored stakeholders on 
important housing matters, and returned the CFPB to the path of 
regulation by enforcement.
    There have been serious allegations that, under Mr. Uejio's 
leadership, the CFPB is taking unusual and possibly unlawful actions to 
forcibly replace career civil servants with loyalists. Yet he's refused 
to provide Congress with documents relating to these allegations.
    Ignoring stakeholder input, Mr. Uejio also decided to delay the 
transition to CFPB's new Qualified Mortgage rule--despite industry, 
consumer, and civil rights groups, and bipartisan Senators from this 
very Committee urging him to reconsider. In fact, despite stakeholder 
concerns, the CFPB stated it will consider rewriting the rule.
    In addition, Mr. Uejio rescinded CFPB policies that provided 
regulatory clarity, clearing the path for the CFPB to return to 
regulation-by-enforcement. Finally, he's shown little regard for the 
CFPB's jurisdictional limits.
    I'm troubled that the Biden administration has chosen nominees who 
have made it clear, through their writings, tweets, and retweets, that 
they are hostile to the police, subscribe to the theory that the police 
are racists, and support defunding the police. These statements speak 
directly to their policy views and temperament and therefore they are 
extremely relevant to our consideration of their nominations.
                                 ______
                                 
                 PREPARED STATEMENT OF JULIA R. GORDON
       To Be Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
                             August 5, 2021
    Chairman Brown, Ranking Member Toomey, and distinguished Members of 
the Committee, I am deeply honored and humbled to appear before you 
today as the nominee for Assistant Secretary for Housing and Federal 
Housing Commissioner of the Department of Housing and Urban 
Development.
    I want to begin by thanking President Biden and Secretary Fudge for 
the confidence and trust they have placed in me. I would also like to 
thank the Committee for scheduling this hearing and considering my 
nomination.
    Before I talk more about my experience, I would also like to 
recognize and thank my family who have joined me today. My husband 
Geoffrey Berman is my most enthusiastic cheerleader and with more than 
30 years at the Pentagon as a civilian IT expert supporting our troops, 
he models what it means to be a true public servant.
    My daughter Rochelle Berman, a rising high school senior, gives me 
so much hope for the future with her love of learning and her gift for 
connection with others.
    I would also like to thank my mother Rhona Gordon, who cannot be 
here today in person. She instilled in me the value of tikkun olam, 
which means working in partnership with God to make the world a better 
place. That value has been the lodestar of my life and career.
    But my mom's life has not always been easy, and our family's 
experience is a big part of why I believe so strongly in the honorable 
mission of the Federal Housing Administration. I grew up in what we now 
call single family rental, and because my parents were low income, they 
did not retire with pensions or savings beyond their small social 
security checks.
    Today, my mom lives in a subsidized apartment building for seniors, 
and her rent still would exceed her monthly income if not for 
additional housing assistance she receives from the county. This lived 
experience undergirds my commitment to promoting home ownership, which 
is the best path to family stability and prosperity, and to ensuring 
that we support safe, affordable, and habitable rental housing.
    If confirmed, I look forward to working with President Biden, 
Secretary Fudge, and Congress on several time-sensitive priorities. 
First and foremost is preventing foreclosures stemming from COVID-
related economic hardship. Currently, more than [850,000] FHA 
homeowners are behind on their mortgage payments. Most have had a CARES 
Act forbearance for more than a year now, which has left them with 
considerable arrearages, and many have seen a permanent reduction in 
income. While FHA has already done a lot of hard work to develop the 
right tools to help these homeowners begin to pay their mortgage again, 
there is still a very steep hill to climb.
    My experience uniquely qualifies me to lead FHA's team at this 
time. Back in 2007, I worked at the Center for Responsible Lending, 
where my work centered first on advocating against predatory mortgage 
lending and later on foreclosure prevention.
    Subsequently, I moved to the Federal Housing Finance Agency, where 
I managed the policy team overseeing the efforts Fannie Mae and Freddie 
Mac to provide loss mitigation for homeowners. Currently, as president 
of the National Community Stabilization Trust, I focus on the 
connection between housing and strong neighborhoods, working to prevent 
blight and create more opportunities for home ownership. Through these 
experiences, I've learned important lessons and developed deep 
technical expertise and stakeholder relationships that I can use to 
navigate the road ahead if I'm confirmed to this position.
    Additionally, if I'm confirmed, I would prioritize increasing the 
supply of affordable housing for both rental and ownership. In fact, my 
work on supply long predated today's headlines. Over the past decade, 
the team I lead has helped community-based developers put more than 
27,000 blighted properties back to work for families. We also provide 
capital to small businesses seeking to create new home ownership, and 
we advocate for supply-oriented initiatives such as the Neighborhood 
Homes Investment Act.
    Those of you on this Committee deeply understand that safe, 
healthy, and affordable housing is the necessary precondition for 
families and communities to thrive and prosper. If I'm confirmed, I 
look forward to working with you to achieve that goal for as many 
households as possible.
    Thank you so much for the opportunity to testify before you today. 
I look forward to your questions.

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                   PREPARED STATEMENT OF DAVID UEJIO
       To Be Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
                             August 5, 2021
    Thank You Chairman Brown, Ranking Member Toomey, and Members of the 
Committee, I am incredibly honored and humbled to appear before you 
today as the nominee for Assistant Secretary for Fair Housing and Equal 
Opportunity at the Department of Housing and Urban Development. I want 
to begin by thanking President Biden for the trust and confidence he 
has placed in me by nominating me for this position.
    I would also like to thank my family and friends for their endless 
support of me over many years of public service. I especially want to 
thank my wife who has believed in me every step along the way and is 
here with me at today's hearing.
    If confirmed, my role will be to enforce our Nation's fair housing 
laws and to create strong, sustainable, and inclusive communities for 
all Americans. I believe wholeheartedly in this mission. FHEO's work is 
critical to millions of American families, and I'm deeply grateful and 
would be honored to lead the Office if I were confirmed.
    I have dedicated my career to public service. As the Consumer 
Financial Protection Bureau's Chief Strategy Officer, I worked directly 
with Director Cordray, Acting Director Mulvaney, and Director Kraninger 
to articulate their policy vision and priorities and to protect 
America's consumers. I have a proven track record of translating 
statutory language into actionable plans, translating the Bureau's 
mission into concrete outcomes for the American public. I have 
leveraged my expertise in strategy, policy implementation, and 
operational leadership to drive four Federal agencies to be more than 
the sum of their parts, strengthening mission delivery everywhere I 
have served. As a career civil servant, I have served with honor and 
integrity in carrying out the missions these agencies, always seeking 
to provide the American public with the world class Government they 
deserve. These values have always served as my North Star and would 
continue to do so if I were confirmed in this role.
    Over the last 6 months, I have had the opportunity to lead 
America's consumer financial protection agency. As Acting Director of 
the CFPB, I have centered the experience of individual consumers, 
starting with the most vulnerable. I have enforced American's consumer 
financial protection laws, deploying the Bureau's enforcement, 
supervision, rulemaking, and guidance tools to protect vulnerable 
consumers from illegal, unfair, deceptive, and abusive acts and 
practices. I have overseen the Bureau's complaint handling function, 
responding to over 500,000 complaints in 2020 from consumers seeking 
help. Under my leadership, the Bureau has returned to publishing 
regular analysis of the complaints we receive from consumers seeking 
help, including the first ever CFPB-published analysis of demographic 
data and our May bulletin highlighting problems encountered by mortgage 
borrowers. I have determined the strategic direction and allocated 
additional resources toward advancing racial and economic equity, 
including through the Bureau's fair lending work under the Equal Credit 
Opportunity Act, which includes supervision of regulated entities and 
major fair lending enforcement matters. Finally, at a time when our 
country has faced extraordinary obstacles as a result of the COVID-19 
pandemic and resulting economic disruption, I have focused the Bureau's 
resources on doing what we can to keep consumers housed.
    As a third-generation immigrant from Japan, I have seen firsthand 
the barriers to opportunity that can arise from discrimination in 
housing. My grand uncle was interned during World War II; more recently 
my father in law became severely disabled and had difficulty finding to 
accessible housing. My life has shown me the crucial role housing plays 
in providing access to opportunity for every American; and no 
American's path to secure housing should be blocked by unlawful 
discrimination.
    I am committed to upholding and implementing our Nation's housing 
laws, including the Fair Housing Act. Were I fortunate enough to be 
confirmed, I would execute FHEO's mission under Secretary Fudge with 
transparency, integrity, and impartiality, and I would look forward to 
working with this committee to ensure equitable access to housing for 
all Americans. Most importantly, I will continue to put the people we 
serve at the heart of everything I do. Thank you to this Committee for 
the privilege of appearing before you today and I look forward to 
answering your questions.

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                PREPARED STATEMENT OF SOLOMON J. GREENE
       To Be Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
                             August 5, 2021
    Chairman Brown, Ranking Member Toomey, and distinguished Members of 
the Committee, I am deeply honored to appear before you today as you 
consider my nomination.
    I want to begin by thanking President Biden and Secretary Fudge for 
the confidence and trust they placed in me by nominating me for this 
important position. I would also like to thank my family for their love 
and unwavering support.
    I would also like to express my heartfelt gratitude to several 
mentors who have been instrumental in my life, including the Honorable 
Dorothy Nelson, Ingrid Gould Ellen, Katherine O'Regan, Erika Poethig, 
and Sarah Rosen Wartell.
    Senators, HUD is currently navigating a rapidly evolving housing 
crisis, and it is playing a central role in helping the Nation build 
back better from the pandemic. We are at a moment in our Nation's 
history when HUD's mission is more important than ever.
    Throughout my career I have sought to apply the best available 
research, data, and evidence to advance HUD's mission. My work on 
housing and urban development policy has been motivated by three deeply 
held commitments, which I believe would make me well-suited to serve if 
confirmed.
    First, I have dedicated my career to helping all families find and 
keep stable and affordable housing. This is something I grew to 
appreciate from an early age.
    I was raised primarily by a single mother who earned so little 
while working full-time as a nurse that we received Medicaid and food 
stamps. By economic necessity, my family often moved to where we could 
afford the rent until my mother was able to scrimp and save just enough 
for a downpayment on a house in a rural county in New York.
    That house and property, where my mother still lives with my 
brother, his wife, and my baby nephew, provided the stability I needed 
to be able to focus on school and my future. I truly believe it is why 
I am able to sit here before you today as a nominee.
    These early experiences also instilled in me the recognition that a 
home is more than a roof over your head--it is also a platform for 
health and well-being and a downpayment on your children's future. 
Throughout my career, I have strived to give every family the 
opportunities I was given by studying policies and programs that expand 
options for safe, stable, and affordable housing.
    Second, I believe that evidence-based housing and community 
development policies can help ensure that every child has a fair shot 
in life. The American Dream is the idea that, no matter who you are or 
where you come from, if you work hard and give it your all, you will 
succeed. I have dedicated my career to ensuring that where you come 
from does not determine who you can become later in life.
    I study the policies that shape communities and the opportunities 
they offer their residents. For years, I have worked with Federal, 
State, and local leaders to design and test policies that revitalize 
communities, expand neighborhood choices, and boost upward mobility.
    Finally, and most importantly for the position to which I have been 
nominated, I am passionate about using the best available data and 
evidence to inform public policy decisions at all levels of Government.
    I am first and foremost a researcher with a strong and proven 
commitment to evidence-based policymaking. I have demonstrated this 
through over two decades of work on data-driven and community-informed 
housing policy: from my work in local government to my work at HUD, as 
a graduate student in law and urban planning, a legal research fellow 
and adjunct professor at NYU, and mostly recently for almost 7 years as 
a senior researcher at the Urban Institute.
    In all of my work, I have applied independent, unbiased, and 
objective research to help ensure that our public policies are rooted 
in evidence, maximize the impact of limited resources, and respond to 
the realities of people and communities on the ground.
    I am also passionate about bringing together researchers, 
practitioners, and policymakers to identify evidence-based and data-
driven policy solutions to our Nation's housing and community 
development challenges. I firmly believe that rigorous research can 
provide diverse stakeholders a common frame through which to assess 
problems and a shared foundation to find solutions.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. I look 
forward to your questions.

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        RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF CHAIRMAN BROWN
                      FROM JULIA R. GORDON

Q.1. Where have you excelled in past positions in attracting, 
hiring, and promoting people of color in positions in your 
organization? Where might there be room for improvement?

A.1. Hiring and retaining a diverse workforce at the Federal 
Housing Administration is of utmost importance to me. 
Throughout my career, I have prioritized recruiting people of 
color as well as women, since both of these demographic groups 
are underrepresented in the housing finance field. As the 
President of the National Community Stabilization Trust (NCST), 
I have made several key changes in how NCST's job descriptions 
are written to support hiring more people of color, such as 
including salary ranges rather than advertising ``salary 
commensurate with experience'' as is typical in the nonprofit 
sector; allowing work experience to substitute for college 
experience; and listing the position in channels aimed 
specifically at people of color. There is significant room for 
improvement in making the housing finance field attractive to 
young people of color. We need to highlight the connection 
between housing and racial equity and to showcase the impactful 
nature of our work on communities.

Q.2. What specific measures will you use to evaluate the 
success of the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development 
in understanding and addressing the needs of Black, Indigenous, 
and people of color (BIPOC)? And, will you work with the 
Secretary and senior officials to keep Congress apprised, as 
appropriate, on the progress being made on these measures?

A.2. The strength and vitality of BIPOC communities are central 
to HUD's mission and to Secretary Fudge's goals for her tenure. 
I will work with her to ensure that FHA's programs are 
operating with equitable outcomes in mind and meeting the needs 
of the people and communities we serve best. I am deeply 
committed to this mission, and to keeping Congress apprised of 
our successes, progress, and any needs we have to fulfill these 
goals if I am confirmed.

Q.3. What is your plan for creating an inclusive working 
environment for employees within your office?

A.3. If confirmed, I will make it a priority to build and 
maintain an inclusive working environment at FHA. While FHA 
already has a very high percentage of BIPOC staff, an inclusive 
working environment goes beyond statistics. Under my 
management, decision-making processes will be broad-based, 
reaching into the career staff as well as outside FHA when 
appropriate. Additionally, I will make it a priority to provide 
employees with effective training and coaching around diversity 
and discrimination, and I will work with the relevant offices 
at HUD to ensure that any instances of harassment or 
discrimination are addressed swiftly.
                                ------                                


        RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR TOOMEY
                      FROM JULIA R. GORDON

Q.1. Congressional oversight--Please provide your philosophy on 
how HUD will approach and respond to Congressional information 
requests (both for documentary information and oral testimony), 
if you are confirmed.

A.1. I recognize that Congress plays an important oversight 
role regarding executive branch activities, and I pledge to 
thoughtfully consider all Congressional information requests, 
recognizing the importance of transparency in Government. If 
confirmed, I pledge to work through the accommodations process 
to comply with Congressional requests for information to the 
fullest extent consistent with the constitutional and statutory 
obligations of the executive branch.

Q.2. If confirmed, do you intend to respond to information 
requests differently depending on who is making the 
Congressional information request (whether it's the chair of 
the Congressional committee, the Ranking Member, or another 
member of Congress)? Please answer ``yes'' or ``no.'' If your 
answer is ``yes,'' please explain.

A.2. I recognize that Congress plays an important oversight 
role regarding executive branch activities, and I pledge to 
thoughtfully consider all Congressional information requests, 
recognizing the importance of transparency in Government. If 
confirmed, I pledge to work through the accommodations process 
to comply with Congressional requests for information to the 
fullest extent consistent with the constitutional and statutory 
obligations of the executive branch.

Q.3. Will you commit that, if confirmed, you will timely 
respond to and fully comply with all information requests from 
me? Please answer ``yes'' or ``no.'' If your answer is ``no,'' 
please explain.

A.3. I recognize that Congress plays an important oversight 
role regarding executive branch activities, and I pledge to 
thoughtfully consider all Congressional information requests 
including from any member, recognizing the importance of 
transparency in Government. If confirmed, I pledge to work 
through the accommodations process to comply with Congressional 
requests for information to the fullest extent consistent with 
the constitutional and statutory obligations of the executive 
branch.

Q.4. Will you commit that, if confirmed, you will make yourself 
and any other HUD employee expeditiously available to provide 
oral testimony (including but not limited to briefings, 
hearings, and transcribed interviews) to the Committee on any 
matter within its jurisdiction, upon the request of either the 
Chairman or Ranking Member? Please answer ``yes'' or ``no.'' If 
your answer is ``no,'' please explain why.

A.4. I recognize that oral testimony plays an important role in 
Congress' important oversight responsibilities regarding 
executive branch activities. If confirmed, I commit to brief or 
testify regarding Congressional requests consistent with this 
important oversight function.

Q.5. Do you believe that HUD may assert any privileges or other 
legal justifications to withhold information (whether records 
or oral testimony) from Congress? Please answer ``yes'' or 
``no.''

A.5. My understanding is that any determination as to whether 
HUD has an applicable privilege or other justification to 
withhold information from Congress would be made by the Office 
of General Counsel. Should I be confirmed, and should such a 
question arise during my tenure, I would consult closely with 
that office.

Q.6. If you answered ``yes'' to the preceding question, please 
list every such privilege or other legal justification and 
provide the legal basis for why you believe HUD may use such 
privilege or legal justification to withhold information from 
Congress.

A.6. As noted above, any determination as to whether HUD has an 
applicable privilege or other justification to withhold 
information from Congress would be made by the Office of 
General Counsel and identified clearly as such at that time.

Q.7. In an effort to be open and transparent with Congress and 
the public, will you commit not to assert any such privilege or 
legal justification against Congress that you listed above? If 
not, why not? If so, please identify all such privileges or 
legal justifications that you will commit to not assert against 
Congress.

A.7. If confirmed, I would work with the Office of General 
Counsel to ensure that I am complying with any and all legal 
requirements.

Q.8. Barriers to Affordable Housing--In January 2021, HUD 
released a report entitled ``Eliminating Regulatory Barriers to 
Affordable Housing: Federal, State, Local, and Tribal 
Opportunities'', which ``identifies many Federal regulations 
and practices that could be revised to eliminate unnecessary 
burdens to providing Americans with affordable, safe, quality 
places to live, including opportunities to make sustainable 
home ownership more achievable.'' \1\ Which of the report's 
recommendations do you agree with?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ HUD, ``Eliminating Regulatory Barriers to Affordable Housing: 
Federal, State, Local, and Tribal Opportunities'', (Jan. 19, 2021), 
available at https://www.huduser.gov/portal//portal/sites/default/
files/pdf/eliminating-regulatory-barriers-to-affordable-housing.pdf.

A.8. The report you reference is a comprehensive document 
identifying myriad opportunities, many of which I would like to 
explore more if given the opportunity to serve. If confirmed, I 
would be happy to discuss these recommendations with your 
office in more detail as I learn more about each of the areas 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
addressed.

Q.9. The January 2021 HUD report on barriers to affordable 
housing described regulatory and sub-regulatory changes to 
modernize Davis-Bacon. \2\ Do you support and will you work to 
implement any administrative reforms to update Davis-Bacon?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \2\ Id. at 48-49.

A.9. If confirmed, I would follow the Secretary's leadership 
and would support, as needed, working with DOL to further 
assess ways in which the Federal Government can streamline 
Davis-Bacon rules and regulations while maintaining the 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
integrity of the law.

Q.10. Multifamily Application queue--In recent months, the wait 
times for HUD Multifamily applications to be processed has 
tripled, and in some cases, quadrupled. If this continues, it 
could shrink the supply of affordable and workforce rental 
units. How will you address the wait times for HUD Multifamily 
applications? What steps will you be take to ensure that HUD 
Multifamily can adequately respond to expansion and contraction 
in the future?

A.10. Due to record demand and staffing constraints, there is a 
queue for FHA loan applications waiting to be assigned to an 
underwriter. Once assigned, processing is quick. Last year, FHA 
closed a record volume of loans and will do so again this year. 
If confirmed as Commissioner, I would consider it a critical 
priority to ensure that FHA focuses on staff expansion, systems 
improvements, contractor support, and other means to reduce the 
queue.

Q.11. Environmental regulations--Regarding HUD's environmental 
regulations that govern HUD's programs, how will you balance 
the need to protect the environment with the need to limit the 
cost of building new affordable housing?

A.11. If confirmed as Commissioner, I would use existing, 
Congressionally mandated processes to review environmental 
regulations to take into account both environmental protection 
and the affordability and availability of housing. In many 
instances, making housing safer, healthier, and more 
sustainable aligns with affordability, particularly when 
considered over the long term. To the extent tensions between 
the issues arise, I would ensure that HUD makes well-informed 
decisions relying on public input, interagency feedback, and 
in-house expertise.

Q.12. Manufactured housing--The Manufactured Housing Consensus 
Committee (MHCC) is a Federal Advisory Committee statutorily 
authorized to develop and submit to the HUD Secretary 
manufactured home construction and safety standards. The law 
requires the MHCC to ``submit proposed revised standards . . . 
to the [HUD] Secretary in the form of a proposed rule, 
including an economic analysis.'' \3\ Accordingly, the MHCC 
must have resources devoted to developing these required 
economic analyses. Will you provide the resources that are 
necessary for the MHCC to develop economic analyses to 
accompany the construction and safety standards being 
considered by the MHCC so that the standards are revised to 
keep up with innovations in the market?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \3\ 42 U.S.C. 5403(a)(4)(A)(ii).

A.12. Manufactured housing is an important tool to increase 
access to affordable home ownership, and it is critical that it 
adhere to appropriate construction and safety standards. If 
confirmed, I will work to ensure that all FHA programs, 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
including the MHCC, have the necessary resources.

Q.13. Mutual Mortgage Insurance (MMI) Fund--The FY20 Report on 
the MMI Fund shows that subjecting the FY20 portfolio to the 
same macroeconomic conditions faced during the housing crisis 
would create losses in excess of MMI Fund capital, resulting in 
a MMI Fund capital ratio of -0.63 percent, below the statutory 
2 percent minimum, and requiring a bailout. Would you consider 
it a failure if the Federal Housing Administration (FHA) draws 
funds from the Treasury to cover losses, or put more simply, 
requires a bailout?

A.13. The country does not face the same macroeconomic 
conditions that prevailed during the 2008 financial crisis. 
Additionally, FHA has significantly improved its underwriting 
criteria and loss mitigation policies since 2008, and, if 
confirmed, I will work with FHA staff to continue to evaluate 
the risks associated with Forward and HECM portfolios. 
Additionally, I will share information with Congress through 
the Annual Report to Congress on the State of the Mutual 
Mortgage Insurance Fund and other communications.

Q.14. Do you think the MMI Fund as of FY20 has sufficient 
capital reserves?

A.14. I am not in the position to make that determination, but 
if confirmed, I look forward to working with FHA staff to 
evaluate the performance of the loans currently held in the 
portfolio to make that assessment.

Q.15. Do you think it is inappropriate to build a capital 
buffer able to withstand a shock of the kind experienced during 
the 2008 housing crisis?

A.15. Since I am not yet at HUD with access to non-public 
information about the current performance of the portfolio, I 
am unable to make a determination regarding the appropriate 
metric to be used in setting a buffer.

Q.16. Is the statutory 2 percent MMI Fund capital ratio a 
sufficient buffer to protect against taxpayer losses? If not, 
what do you believe is appropriate? If not the 2008 housing 
crisis, what stress level scenario should FHA consider when 
deciding what capital buffer is sufficient?

A.16. FHA plays an enormously important countercyclical role in 
the Nation's housing markets. As such, it is important to build 
capital during strong economic periods and equally important to 
be able to spend that capital during an economic downturn. 
Since I am not yet at HUD with access to nonpublic information 
about the current performance of the portfolio, I am unable to 
make a determination regarding the appropriate metric to be 
used in setting a buffer.

Q.17. Multiple Biden administration officials have expressed an 
intent to impose climate stress tests and to change regulatory 
standards to address climate risk for private sector market 
participants. Do you think FHA's lending portfolio should be 
subjected to similar climate stress tests and regulatory 
standards?

A.17. Climate risk is a top priority for the Biden 
administration and HUD. If confirmed, I look forward to working 
with the White House and Secretary Fudge to support efforts 
that safely and sustainably promote resiliency, energy 
efficiency and other green initiatives within the FHA lending 
space.

Q.18. Federal Housing Administration (FHA) annual report--As a 
consumer of information contained in FHA's statutory report on 
the status of the MMI Fund, do you find the report useful?

A.18. I do. The FHA Annual Report is extremely helpful in 
identifying trends across loan type, demographics, risk factors 
and loan amounts.

Q.19. Do you think any of the information presented in FHA's 
FY20 Report should no longer be presented in subsequent 
reports?

A.19. I am not privy to the policy discussions currently taking 
place within FHA and am therefore unable to make that 
determination at this time. However, if confirmed, I look 
forward to working with FHA staff to identify opportunities 
that may improve the overall presentation of the program's 
data.

Q.20. Do you think any additional information should be 
presented in subsequent reports?

A.20. If confirmed, I look forward to working with FHA staff to 
identify additional areas of analysis and presentation.

Q.21. FHA mission--What is FHA's statutory mission or purpose? 
Please reference specific statutes in your response.

A.21. According to the HUD website, FHA's mission is as 
follows: ``We provide mortgage insurance on loans made by FHA-
approved lenders. We insure mortgages on single family homes, 
multifamily properties, residential care facilities, and 
hospitals throughout the United States and its territories.''
    The extent to which FHA's mission and purpose derive from 
specific statutes is a legal one that is primarily one for the 
Office of General Counsel. Should I be confirmed and should a 
question arise about whether the statutes governing FHA's 
mission or purpose affect the propriety of agency action, I 
would closely consult with that office.

Q.22. Will you commit to enacting policies that prioritize and 
are consistent with FHA's statutory mission?

A.22. If confirmed, I will work in close consultation with the 
Office of General Counsel to enact policies that are consistent 
with FHA's mission and purpose, including all applicable 
statutory, regulatory, and subregulatory authorities.

Q.23. Downpayment assistance--12 U.S.C. 1709(b)(9)(C) 
prohibits the ``seller or any other person or entity that 
financially benefits from the transaction'' from providing 
funds as part of the downpayment for an FHA-insured loan. What 
does ``financially benefits from the transaction'' mean to you?

A.23. Any agency interpretation of this statutory provision 
would be made by the Office of General Counsel. If I am 
confirmed, I will work closely with the Office of General 
Counsel to ensure that FHA's actions are consistent with the 
law.

Q.24. Answering questions for the record--Please describe with 
particularity the process by which you answered these questions 
for the record, including listing every person that assisted 
you in answering these questions along with a brief description 
of his or her assistance.

A.24. The Department of Housing and Urban Development received 
these questions on August 9, 2021. I worked with Department 
attorneys and through the interagency process to answer the 
questions. I finalized and approved all answers to the 
questions and authorized their transmission to the Committee on 
August 13, 2021.
                                ------                                


               RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF
             SENATOR MENENDEZ FROM JULIA R. GORDON

Q.1. You have been an advocate of finding ways to better 
address downpayment requirements, which are a particular 
obstacle for many minority and low-income families whose lower 
family wealth makes it difficult to afford even a modest 
downpayment. And since a family's home is often their largest 
asset and the key way to build wealth over time, the current 
dynamic only contributes to the massive economic inequality in 
our country.
    Can you describe why you believe addressing downpayment 
challenges is so critical to expanding home ownership among 
communities of color?

A.1. In today's high-priced housing market, many homebuyers 
turn to parents or other relatives for assistance with a 
downpayment. However, the lack of generational wealth for 
homebuyers of color--which itself stems from being locked out 
of the market by redlining and other forms of racial and ethnic 
discrimination--poses an obstacle right at the start of the 
homebuying process that is difficult to overcome without 
nonfamilial sources of assistance.

Q.2. If confirmed, what steps would you take at FHA to ease 
downpayment requirements, particularly for first-time 
homebuyers?

A.2. I understand FHA is currently engaged in rulemaking on 
that topic, and therefore it would be inappropriate for me to 
comment as someone who does not yet work at HUD. If confirmed, 
I will commit to ensuring that downpayment requirements are 
fair, equitable, accessible, and comply with all relevant law.
    My understanding is that for FHA reverse mortgage HECM 
loans issued prior to September 17, 2017, FHA requires HECM 
servicers to issue a due and payable letter within 30 days of 
the death. This 30-day time requirement may be operationally 
unfeasible using the customary method of monitoring Social 
Security rolls.

Q.3. If confirmed, would you pledge to look into this issue and 
consider instituting a more operationally feasible time 
requirement, such as 60 days after Social Security notice of 
death of the borrower?

A.3. I am committed to ensuring that the HECM program serves as 
a safe and affordable mortgage option for seniors. If 
confirmed, I would work with the FHA team to review existing 
policies to ensure that surviving family members and servicers 
are allotted adequate time to begin the reconciliation process 
for HECM mortgages.
    FHA's loan limit for Title I manufactured housing loans is 
currently about $69,000. My understanding is that this has not 
been increased since 2009. As you know, FHA Title I loans have 
fallen precipitously in recent years, from 848 loans in 2017 to 
only 204 loans in 2019.

Q.4. Will you commit to reviewing whether an increase of the 
loan limit is appropriate, if confirmed?

A.4. If confirmed, I commit to working with the FHA 
Manufactured Housing team to review the current loan limit 
policy.
    FHA's Title I program applies a blanket limit on 
collections of $1,000, regardless of the type of collection on 
a consumer's credit. FHA's Title II policy, however, excludes 
medical debt collections.

Q.5. Do you believe medical debt collections should be included 
in the Title I program?

A.5. If confirmed, I will work with the Manufactured Housing 
Team to review the current collection policy under Title I.

Q.6. Will you commit to reviewing whether the Title I 
collections policy should be aligned with the Title II policy 
to exclude medical collections, if confirmed?

A.6. If confirmed, I commit to working with FHA's Manufactured 
Housing staff to review the Title I collections policy to 
determine if it is appropriate to align it with the current 
policy under Title II.
    In a report about eviction, Mr. Greene wrote that housing 
counseling is an element of eviction prevention. While I was 
able to include $100 million in housing counseling as part of 
the American Rescue Plan, the eviction numbers show an 
overwhelming need for eviction prevention help.

Q.7. In your view, what should Congress do to strengthen 
housing counseling services?

A.7. Housing counseling can play an extremely important role in 
helping borrowers achieve affordable home ownership and sustain 
that home ownership. Congress should appropriate adequate 
funding to support prepurchase, postclosing, loss mitigation, 
and financial literacy counseling.
                                ------                                


        RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR CRAPO
                      FROM JULIA R. GORDON

Q.1. For a home equity conversion mortgage loan (HECM) 
originating prior to September 17, 2017, the FHA requires 
servicers to issue a due and payable letter within 30 days of a 
death. In May 2016, FHA took steps to solve the regulatory 
issue stemming from the 30 day timeline by offering changes to 
the HECM regulations clarifying that notice to the Department 
following the death of a mortgagor should be made within 60 
days of the mortgagor's death and that notice to the borrower's 
estate, and heir(s) must be made within 30 days after notifying 
the Department. The accelerated time requirement of 30 days, 
which still applies to loans originating prior to September 17, 
2017, even after rulemaking, is resulting in unnecessary fines 
because it is operationally unfeasible using the customary 
method of monitoring Social Security rolls.
    If confirmed, would you commit to look into this issue? 
Will you consider instituting a more operationally feasible and 
reasonable time requirement to all HECM loans, such as 60 days 
after Social Security notice of death of the borrower?

A.1. I am committed to ensuring that the HECM program serves as 
a safe and affordable mortgage option for seniors. If 
confirmed, I would work with the FHA team to review existing 
policies to ensure that surviving family members and servicers 
are allotted adequate time to begin the reconciliation process 
for HECM mortgages.
                                ------                                


        RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF CHAIRMAN BROWN
                        FROM DAVID UEJIO

Q.1. Where have you excelled in past positions in attracting, 
hiring, and promoting people of color in positions in your 
organization? Where might there be room for improvement?

A.1. I believe that for the Office of Fair Housing and Equal 
Opportunity (FHEO) to succeed in its mission, we need to 
attract and retain talent from every background and walk of 
life. I have spent the past decade in significant positions at 
the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), including as 
the Bureau's first lead in Talent Acquisition. In that role I 
created a unique, Government leading talent acquisition program 
from the ground up to support the start-up and hiring of over 
700 diverse employees from all across the country. At the 
National Institutes of Health, I built the agency's executive 
recruitment function to allow NIH to compete directly with the 
world's leading hospitals, universities, and scientific 
research firms to attract diverse scientific leadership. And I 
was recruited by the Undersecretary for Personnel and Readiness 
to help develop the Pentagon's talent acquisition and 
management strategy. Throughout my time at CFPB and in three 
other Federal agencies, I excelled at attracting, hiring, and 
promoting qualified people of color.
    There is always room for improvement, and FHEO is no 
exception. If confirmed, I would work with the Secretary, the 
Deputy Secretary, and the Office of the Chief Human Capital 
Officer to ensure that FHEO headquarters and regional offices 
build strong relationships with university affinity networks 
and professional networks that can help with recruiting people 
of color. I would also work closely with our managerial staff 
to ensure that FHEO staff have the opportunity to work on 
meaningful projects in their areas of expertise that can 
advance their careers.

Q.2. What specific measures will you use to evaluate the 
success of the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development 
in understanding and addressing the needs of Black, Indigenous, 
and people of color (BIPOC)? And, will you work with the 
Secretary and senior officials to keep Congress apprised, as 
appropriate, on the progress being made on these measures?

A.2. If confirmed, I look forward to working with Congress on 
this particular issue and would welcome an ongoing conversation 
on HUD and FHEO's progress. Having previously served as 
Performance Improvement Officer and Evaluation Officer at CFPB, 
I know well the importance of relying on data to evaluate 
organizational success and inform organizational priorities 
such as this. As Secretary Fudge has said, first and foremost 
we must prevent evictions, foreclosures, and homelessness due 
to the pandemic and economic crisis which has 
disproportionately impacted BIPOC. We also need to improve home 
ownership for BIPOC. I would work with the Secretary to look 
for ways to use fair housing tools that can help in each of 
these areas.

Q.3. What is your plan for creating an inclusive working 
environment for employees within your office?

A.3. Throughout the course of my career I have led initiatives 
to strengthen organizational culture and performance; I know 
well the incredible value of building and cultivating strong, 
interdisciplinary teams to accomplish public service missions. 
If confirmed, I would make it a priority to leverage this 
approach to build and maintain an inclusive working environment 
in FHEO. FHEO is a diverse workplace with leadership from many 
different backgrounds. I would work to ensure those diverse 
voices are a part of the decision-making process when it comes 
to office initiatives, policy determinations, and our efforts 
at recruitment and retention of talent. Through training 
sessions and meetings, I would make sure everyone understands 
that we value the contributions that our employees bring to 
meeting FHEO's mission, and that, together, we are responsible 
for maintaining a workplace that is fair, inclusive, and free 
from all forms of harassment and discrimination. I will 
maintain and enhance training that reinforces the values of 
civil treatment and building teams based on mutual respect and 
collegial relations.
                                ------                                


        RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR TOOMEY
                        FROM DAVID UEJIO

Q.1. Congressional oversight--Please provide your philosophy on 
how HUD will approach and respond to Congressional information 
requests (both for documentary information and oral testimony), 
if you are confirmed.

A.1. I recognize that Congress plays an important oversight 
role regarding executive branch activities, and I pledge to 
thoughtfully consider all Congressional information requests, 
recognizing the importance of transparency in Government. If 
confirmed, I pledge to work through the accommodations process 
to comply with Congressional requests for information to the 
fullest extent consistent with the constitutional and statutory 
obligations of the executive branch.

Q.2. If confirmed, do you intend to respond to information 
requests differently depending on who is making the 
Congressional information request (whether it's the chair of 
the Congressional committee, the Ranking Member, or another 
member of Congress)? Please answer ``yes'' or ``no.'' If your 
answer is ``yes,'' please explain.

A.2. I recognize that Congress plays an important oversight 
role regarding executive branch activities, and I pledge to 
thoughtfully consider all Congressional information requests, 
recognizing the importance of transparency in Government. If 
confirmed, I pledge to work through the accommodations process 
to comply with Congressional requests for information to the 
fullest extent consistent with the constitutional and statutory 
obligations of the executive branch.

Q.3. Will you commit that, if confirmed, you will timely 
respond to and fully comply with all information requests from 
me? Please answer ``yes'' or ``no.'' If your answer is ``no,'' 
please explain.

A.3. I recognize that Congress plays an important oversight 
role regarding executive branch activities, and I pledge to 
thoughtfully consider all Congressional information requests 
including from any member, recognizing the importance of 
transparency in Government. If confirmed, I pledge to work 
through the accommodations process to comply with Congressional 
requests for information to the fullest extent consistent with 
the constitutional and statutory obligations of the executive 
branch.

Q.4. Will you commit that, if confirmed, you will make yourself 
and any other HUD employee expeditiously available to provide 
oral testimony (including but not limited to briefings, 
hearings, and transcribed interviews) to the Committee on any 
matter within its jurisdiction, upon the request of either the 
Chairman or Ranking Member? Please answer ``yes'' or ``no.'' If 
your answer is ``no,'' please explain why.

A.4. I recognize that oral testimony plays an important role in 
Congress' important oversight responsibilities regarding 
executive branch activities. If confirmed, I commit to brief or 
testify regarding Congressional requests consistent with this 
important oversight function.

Q.5. Do you believe that HUD may assert any privileges or other 
legal justifications to withhold information (whether records 
or oral testimony) from Congress? Please answer ``yes'' or 
``no.''

A.5. My understanding is that any determination as to whether 
HUD has an applicable privilege or other justification to 
withhold information from Congress would be made by the Office 
of General Counsel. Should I be confirmed, and should such a 
question arise during my tenure, I would consult closely with 
that office.

Q.6. If you answered ``yes'' to the preceding question, please 
list every such privilege or other legal justification and 
provide the legal basis for why you believe HUD may use such 
privilege or legal justification to withhold information from 
Congress.

A.6. If confirmed, I would work with the Office of General 
Counsel to ensure that I am complying with any and all legal 
requirements.

Q.7. In an effort to be open and transparent with Congress and 
the public, will you commit not to assert any such privilege or 
legal justification against Congress that you listed above? If 
not, why not? If so, please identify all such privileges or 
legal justifications that you will commit to not assert against 
Congress.

A.7. If confirmed, I would work with the Office of General 
Counsel to ensure that I am complying with any and all legal 
requirements.

Q.8. Housing Experience--For each question below please provide 
a clear ``yes'' or ``no'' answer, then list any responsive 
experience, the date or dates, a description of the work you 
personally performed, and names of individuals who supervised 
this work.
    Do you have any professional experience specifically in 
fair housing?

A.8. In my Government career I have been proud to work on 
issues in the housing finance marketplace. In my current role I 
lead the Nation's consumer financial protection regulator, with 
authority over large segments of the housing finance 
marketplace. Among the statutes I enforce are the Equal Credit 
Opportunity Act (ECOA) prohibiting discrimination in the 
provision of financial services, to include housing, as well as 
the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) which helps ensure fair 
treatment of homeowners and tenants. As Chair of the Federal 
Financial Institutions Examination Council's (FFIEC), I led 
members to focus on discrimination in the home appraisal 
marketplace, and convened key governmental partners, consumer 
advocates, civil rights leaders, and local leaders to better 
understand their experience with these biases on a day to day 
basis. Under my leadership the Bureau has also joined the 
Interagency Task Force on Property Assessment Valuation Equity 
(PAVE). I am fortunate to have strong relationships with the 
Director of the FHFA and other banking regulators, and if 
confirmed look forward to working with these stakeholders and 
the Department of Justice to enforce the Fair Housing Act.

Q.9. Do you have any experience interpreting or applying the 
Fair Housing Act?

A.9. I do not have experience directly applying the Fair 
Housing Act as that is not one of the statutes the CFPB is 
charged with administering. However, I have extensive 
experience applying the ECOA, which has given me a strong 
foundation to interpret the Fair Housing Act as they are 
analogous in many respects.

Q.10. Have you ever counselled any persons on fair housing 
issues?

A.10. I have spent my entire career in public service; 
accordingly, I have not had any occasion to have any private 
clients whom I might counsel on such matters.

Q.11. Have you ever counselled any housing providers on fair 
housing issues?

A.11. I have spent my entire career in public service; 
accordingly, I have not had any occasion to have any private 
clients whom I might counsel on such matters.

Q.12. Have you ever worked directly with HUD's Office of Fair 
Housing and Equal Opportunity?

A.12. In my current role, we have collaborated closely with HUD 
on a range of topics to ensure Americans are protected in the 
housing finance marketplace. I have prioritized that 
collaboration with various Offices at HUD, including the Office 
of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity. I have strongly 
supported the work of the Bureau under the last Administration 
to clarify the use of Special Purpose Credit programs, and 
engaged FHEO around options to provide greater clarity to 
regulated entities around their use.

Q.13. Barriers to Affordable Housing--In January 2021, HUD 
released a report entitled ``Eliminating Regulatory Barriers to 
Affordable Housing: Federal, State, Local, and Tribal 
Opportunities'', which ``identifies many Federal regulations 
and practices that could be revised to eliminate unnecessary 
burdens to providing Americans with affordable, safe, quality 
places to live, including opportunities to make sustainable 
home ownership more achievable.'' \1\ Which of the report's 
recommendations do you agree with?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ HUD, ``Eliminating Regulatory Barriers to Affordable Housing: 
Federal, State, Local, and Tribal Opportunities'', (January 19, 2021), 
available at https://www.huduser.gov/portal//portal/sites/default/
files/pdf/eliminating-regulatory-barriers-to-affordable-housing.pdf.

A.13. If confirmed, I would be concerned with housing 
discrimination and violations of the Fair Housing Act. I would 
defer to the Office of Policy Development and Research, Office 
of Housing, and other HUD colleagues to address regulatory 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
barriers to sustainable home ownership.

Q.14. Olmstead Regulations--If confirmed, will you examine the 
possibility of streamlining HUD's regulations that govern 
compliance with the U.S. Supreme Court's 1999 decision in 
Olmstead v. L.C.?

A.14. My understanding is that HUD has issued guidance 
documents explaining how its Section 504 and other regulations 
should be applied to ensure that individuals with disabilities, 
including those transitioning from institutional to community 
settings, have the housing opportunities they need to live in 
the most integrated setting appropriate to their needs 
consistent with the Supreme Court's Olmstead decision. If I am 
confirmed, in conjunction with the Office of General Counsel, I 
will examine these documents and take any steps necessary to 
ensure that they are effective.

Q.15. Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing (AFFH)--When now-
Deputy Secretary Todman was CEO of NAHRO, NAHRO advocated for a 
less burdensome version of the AFFH process than the Obama-era 
rule. NAHRO said that housing agencies should not need a 
consultant to comply with the rule. NAHRO also said that 
entities should not have to analyze non-housing related topics 
like transportation, education, or infrastructure, or analyze 
locations outside of their jurisdiction.
    Do you agree that a jurisdiction should not have to hire a 
consultant to complete the process?

A.15. The comment you referenced was made by NAHRO on behalf of 
its members. If confirmed as Assistant Secretary of FHEO, I 
would work with Secretary Fudge and Deputy Secretary Todman to 
implement the Fair Housing Act. As Secretary Fudge has said, 
HUD will commit to giving very careful consideration to all 
options relating to the AFFH process. HUD has stated that it 
will be conducting a rulemaking regarding AFFH, and if 
confirmed, I will closely examine any comments regarding this 
issue or any other issue.

Q.16. Do you agree that to comply with AFFH requirements, a 
jurisdiction should not have to complete analyses outside of 
the housing arena or outside of its geographic locality?

A.16. If confirmed as Assistant Secretary of FHEO, I would work 
with Secretary Fudge, Deputy Secretary Todman, and the Office 
of General Counsel to implement the Fair Housing Act. As 
Secretary Fudge has said, HUD will commit to giving very 
careful consideration to all options relating to the AFFH 
process. HUD has stated that it will be conducting a rulemaking 
regarding AFFH, and if confirmed, I will closely examine any 
comments regarding this issue or any other issue.

Q.17. Are there any circumstances under which HUD should use 
the AFFH process to tell a city to make a particular change to 
their zoning laws, to advance affordable housing?

A.17. If confirmed as Assistant Secretary of FHEO, I would work 
with Secretary Fudge, Deputy Secretary Todman, and the Office 
of General Counsel to implement the Fair Housing Act. As 
Secretary Fudge has said, HUD will commit to giving very 
careful consideration to all options relating to the AFFH 
process. HUD has stated that it will be conducting a rulemaking 
regarding AFFH, and if confirmed, I will closely examine any 
comments regarding this issue or any other issue.

Q.18. Disparate impact--HUD recently proposed reinstating its 
2013 disparate impact rule. I'm concerned that this proposal 
willfully disregards the U.S. Supreme Court's decisions in 
Texas Dept. of Housing and Community Affairs v. Inclusive 
Communities Project, Inc., 576 U.S. 519 (2015), which 
identified constitutional guardrails for disparate impact 
liability. Under HUD's 2013 disparate impact rule, it seemed 
that defendants were often guilty until proven innocent. 
Defendants lacked the protections announced by the Supreme 
Court in Inclusive Communities, like the need for a plaintiff 
to prove a robust causality between the plaintiff's action and 
the alleged harm. Reinstating this rule without taking 
Inclusive Communities into account will invite a wave of 
frivolous lawsuits against housing providers and made it 
costlier to access affordable housing.
    Do you acknowledge that Inclusive Communities defines 
limitations for the scope of disparate impact liability?

A.18. HUD's Office of General Counsel has the primary 
responsibility for interpreting the Fair Housing Act, while 
FHEO has the primary responsibility for enforcing it. I 
understand that HUD has issued a notice of proposed rulemaking 
regarding this subject matter and has begun taking comments. If 
confirmed, I would ensure that we work with the Office of 
General Counsel to carefully review and respond to all comments 
on Inclusive Communities and other matters before promulgating 
a final regulation.

Q.19. Will you ensure that any revised rule complies with the 
Supreme Court's limitations in Inclusive Communities?

A.19. If confirmed, I would ensure that we work with the Office 
of General Counsel to carefully review and address comments on 
Inclusive Communities and other matters before promulgating a 
final regulation.

Q.20. In 2019, when now-HUD Deputy Secretary Adrianne Todman 
was CEO of NAHRO, that organization filed a comment letter 
arguing that HUD should exempt housing authorities from 
disparate impact if a policy is ``a reasonable approach and in 
the housing authority's sound discretion.'' The comment letter 
quoted the Supreme Court in Inclusive Communities that 
disparate impact liability should not ``second-guess . . . 
approaches a housing authority should follow'' and that the 
Fair Housing Act ``does not decree a particular vision of urban 
development.'' Will you evaluate the possibility of including 
such a safe harbor in any revisions to HUD's disparate impact 
rule?

A.20. The comment period in the rulemaking you reference is 
currently open, and I do not want to prejudice that process by 
stating what will be included in any revisions. In accordance 
with the Department's legal responsibilities under the 
Administrative Procedures Act, if confirmed, I would work with 
the Office of General Counsel to ensure that the Department 
carefully considers any revisions to the proposed rule that 
commenters may propose, including those described in this 
question.

Q.21. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate 
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's 2015 dictate in 
Inclusive Communities that ``disparate-impact liability [should 
not] be so expansive as to inject racial considerations into 
every housing decision?''

A.21. If confirmed, I would ensure that we work with the Office 
of General Counsel to carefully review and address comments on 
Inclusive Communities and other matters before promulgating a 
final regulation.

Q.22. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate 
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in 
Inclusive Communities that ``disparate impact liability must be 
limited so employers [can] make . . . practical business 
choices and profit-related decisions [to] sustain a vibrant and 
dynamic free-enterprise system?''

A.22. If confirmed, I would ensure that we work with the Office 
of General Counsel to carefully review and address comments on 
Inclusive Communities and other matters before promulgating a 
final regulation.

Q.23. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate 
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in 
Inclusive Communities to have ``adequate safeguards'' for 
defendants at the prima facie (pleading) stage so ``race [is 
not] used and considered in a pervasive way [that] would almost 
inexorably lead governmental or private entities to use 
numerical quotas . . . ?''

A.23. If confirmed, I would ensure that we work with the Office 
of General Counsel to carefully review and address comments on 
Inclusive Communities and other matters before promulgating a 
final regulation.

Q.24. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate 
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in 
Inclusive Communities to have ``robust causality'' between the 
defendant's actions and the harm to a protected class so that 
defendants will not be held liable for racial disparities they 
did not create?

A.24. If confirmed, I would ensure that we work with the Office 
of General Counsel to carefully review and address comments on 
Inclusive Communities and other matters before promulgating a 
final regulation.

Q.25. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate 
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in 
Inclusive Communities to focus on removing ``artificial, 
arbitrary, and unnecessary barrier[s]'' to housing?

A.25. If confirmed, I would ensure that we work with the Office 
of General Counsel to carefully review and address comments on 
Inclusive Communities and other matters before promulgating a 
final regulation.

Q.26. Fair Housing Act--Will you consult with and seek written 
opinions from HUD's Office of General Counsel on the limits of 
protections under the Fair Housing Act?

A.26. If confirmed, I would work in close partnership with 
HUD's Office of General Counsel in enforcing the Fair Housing 
Act.

Q.27. HUD Secretary-initiated complaints under the Fair Housing 
Act--HUD Secretary-initiated complaints are appropriate in 
matters involving significant issues that are national in scope 
or when HUD is made aware of potential violations of the Fair 
Housing Act and broad public interest relief is warranted. 
Under what other circumstances will HUD file a Secretary-
initiated complaint?

A.27. The Fair Housing Act grants HUD the authority to file 
Secretary-initiated complaints to investigate housing 
practices. If confirmed, I would work with Secretary Fudge and 
the Office of General Counsel to determine appropriate cases 
where a Secretary-initiated complaint should be brought to 
remedy housing discrimination.

Q.28. CFPB's Use of Data--The CFPB has a controversial history 
of disparate impact enforcement without statutory authorization 
for this contentious theory of enforcement, and without 
reliable data. Because lenders are prohibited by law from 
collecting information on the race of those who seek or obtain 
credit, the CFPB has not had reliable data about borrowers' 
race. Instead, the CFPB has guessed at borrowers' race based on 
their last name and geographic area, and on that basis accused 
auto finance companies of disparate impact. This notably led 
Congress to overturn the CFPB's auto lending guidance in 2018.
    This year, on February 10, 2021, you announced the CFPB was 
preparing to publish a report to name-and-shame companies you 
concluded gave racially disparate responses to consumer 
complaints in the CFPB's database.
    The CFPB database does not verify the accuracy of 
complaints, or collect data on consumers' race. Under law, 
lenders cannot themselves collect information about the race of 
applicants and borrowers, meaning in most instances companies 
do not know the race of borrowers when they respond to consumer 
complaints. The vast majority of financial institutions (all 
those under $10 billion) are not required to provide any 
response to consumer complaints.
    I wrote to you asking the basis for your conclusions, and 
how you would verify them. Your only substantive response was 
to note that third parties used CFPB complaints to research 
racial disparity. The research you cited assumed individuals' 
race based only on the census tracts where they resided. This 
is not sufficient, or sufficiently reliable, information to 
justify the Federal Government publicly accusing a private 
entity of racism or of disparate impact.
    Will you abandon your plan to conduct public shaming based 
on unverified complaints?

A.28. I am answering these questions in my capacity as nominee 
for HUD's Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, not as 
a representative of CFPB. Accordingly, I cannot answer this 
question on behalf of CFPB.

Q.29. Will you commit that, if confirmed to lead HUD's Office 
of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, you will not inflict 
punishments based on poor evidence, including assuming a 
person's race based on his geographic location or his 
geographic location and last name?

A.29. If confirmed, I will endeavor to have FHEO open and 
conduct investigations and make other decisions based on 
evidence that meets the applicable standards.

Q.30. Respect for Jurisdiction--The leader of an important 
Government office like HUD's Office of Fair Housing and Equal 
Opportunity must consider and respect the jurisdictional 
boundaries Congress has set. This is why I am troubled by 
instances of CFPB overreach under your leadership, and 
concerned for what this would mean for your leadership of HUD's 
Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, if you were 
confirmed to that role.
    For example, the CFPB and the Federal Trade Commission 
(FTC) jointly sent letters to large multi-State landlords. As 
your staff previously confirmed to my staff on May 20, 2021, 
rental landlords are not within the CFPB's jurisdiction. The 
sample letter CFPB and FTC published closed with: ``Neither the 
FTC nor the CFPB has determined whether you or your company is 
violating the law'' and ``the FTC or CFPB may still take 
action.''
    This raises concerns that under your leadership the CFPB is 
taking part in threatening landlords outside of its 
jurisdiction, and may be using joint action with the FTC to 
obscure its jurisdictional bounds. Yet, when you spoke with my 
staff, you refused even to confirm or deny whether the CFPB and 
FTC are engaging in joint investigations of rental landlords. 
This has serious implications for your suitability to be 
confirmed to an important Government office.
    If this was an honest mistake, you have a responsibility to 
make it right. Will you contact any landlords who received this 
letter to clarify the CFPB has no jurisdiction over their 
actions?

A.30. I am answering these questions in my capacity as nominee 
for HUD's Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, not as 
a representative of CFPB. Accordingly, I cannot answer this 
question on behalf of CFPB.

Q.31. Is the CFPB currently engaged in any investigations or 
joint investigations of rental landlords? Please provide a 
description of the nature of the investigations and the law 
suspected to have been violated. In responding, please bear in 
mind that confidential investigative information is not a 
limitless category, and you have significant discretion under 
the law to provide information to Congress.

A.31. I am answering these questions in my capacity as nominee 
for HUD's Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, not as 
a representative of CFPB. Accordingly, I cannot answer this 
question on behalf of CFPB.

Q.32. Please describe with particularity the process by which 
you answered these questions for the record, including listing 
every person that assisted you in answering these questions 
along with a brief description of his or her assistance.

A.32. The Department of Housing and Urban Development received 
these questions on August 9, 2021. I worked with Department 
attorneys and through the interagency process to answer the 
questions. I finalized and approved all answers to the 
questions and authorized their transmission to the Committee on 
August 13, 2021.
                                ------                                


        RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF CHAIRMAN BROWN
                     FROM SOLOMON J. GREENE

Q.1. Where have you excelled in past positions in attracting, 
hiring, and promoting people of color in positions in your 
organization? Where might there be room for improvement?

A.1. In my senior leadership positions within several 
organizations, including at the Urban Institute, I have 
contributed to the development and execution of robust 
diversity, equity and inclusion plans, including identifying 
and incorporating best practices to improve recruiting, hiring 
and promotion of people of color. I have participated in and 
led several hiring committees for staff at all levels--from 
entry level to the most senior hires within the organization--
and in each, I have successfully recruited diverse staff, 
including highly qualified people of color. Beyond recruiting 
and hiring, I have contributed to and led efforts to support 
diverse staff in their professional growth, including 
retention, promotion and meeting professional development 
goals.
    I believe that HUD needs to attract, hire, retain, and grow 
talented staff who represent the diversity of our Nation and 
who bring the diverse perspectives and lived experiences that 
are so essential to the work that HUD does. If I am confirmed, 
I will ensure that open positions are well-publicized through 
all the appropriate channels and would support the growth of a 
more diverse team.

Q.2. What specific measures will you use to evaluate the 
success of the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development 
in understanding and addressing the needs of Black, Indigenous, 
and people of color (BIPOC)? And, will you work with the 
Secretary and senior officials to keep Congress apprised, as 
appropriate, on the progress being made on these measures?

A.2. If confirmed, I look forward to working with the 
Secretary, senior officials within HUD and across agencies, 
Congress and a broad range of stakeholders to advance HUD's 
efforts to understand and meet the housing and community 
development needs of BIPOC individuals, families and 
communities. In the role of Assistant Secretary for Policy 
Development and Research, I would advance these efforts in 
three principal ways, if confirmed. First, I would look for 
opportunities to better understand the housing and community 
development needs in BIPOC communities through community-
engaged research methods, rigorous research using HUD 
administrative data, and collection and analysis of data 
disaggregated by race and place. Second, I would ensure that 
the Secretary and program offices are equipped with the best 
available evidence, data, and research to support policy and 
program design and implementation that addresses needs in BIPOC 
communities. Third, I would work with the Secretary, Deputy 
Secretary, and program offices to advance the goals and 
objectives of the President's ``Executive Order on Advancing 
Racial Equity and Support for Underserved Communities Through 
the Federal Government'' by developing new structures and 
metrics for assessing and advancing equitable outcomes in HUD 
programs.
    I commit to keeping all senior officials and Congress 
appraised on the development of these measures and progress 
being made in achieving better outcomes. I would welcome an 
ongoing and data-driven conversation on HUD's progress towards 
achieving greater racial equity in housing and neighborhoods.

Q.3. What is your plan for creating an inclusive working 
environment for employees within your office?

A.3. I am fully committed to establishing a diverse workforce 
at HUD and within the Office of Policy Development and Research 
(PD&R). If confirmed, I would review HUD's current Diversity, 
Equity and Inclusion (DEI) Strategic plan and work with the 
Secretary and HUD's Office of Diversity and Inclusion to 
provide research, leadership and data driven insights to help 
improve and implement HUD's plan. If confirmed, I would support 
the Secretary, Deputy Secretary, HUD's Office of Diversity and 
Inclusion, HUD's Office of Departmental Equal Employment 
Opportunity and the Office of Administration to advance the 
Secretary's stated priorities for creating an inclusive working 
environment across the Department. These include promoting 
equal opportunity and identifying and eliminating any 
discriminatory practices and policies; providing systematic 
training of HUD employees; monitoring employment policies for 
any discriminatory impact; and ensuring that senior leadership 
are evaluated in terms of their commitments to diversity, 
equity, and inclusion.
    If confirmed, I would also make it a priority to build and 
maintain an inclusive working environment in PD&R. This would 
start with bolstering staff morale and dedication to DEI 
efforts. I would begin immediately by working with the senior 
leadership team and would continue throughout my tenure as I 
evaluate what is currently in place and work with HUD and PD&R 
staff to strengthen the efforts. If confirmed, I would ensure 
diverse voices are a part of the decision-making process in 
PD&R with respect to office initiatives, research, and efforts 
at recruitment and retention of talent. Through training 
sessions and meetings, I would make sure everyone understands 
that we value the contributions that our employees bring to 
meeting HUD's mission, and that, together, we are responsible 
for maintaining a workplace that is fair, inclusive, free from 
all forms of harassment and discrimination, and provides all 
staff with an opportunity to grow and thrive. I would do my 
best to lead by example, maintaining a leadership style that 
reinforces the values of civil treatment and building teams 
based on mutual respect and dignity.
                                ------                                


        RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR TOOMEY
                     FROM SOLOMON J. GREENE

Q.1. Congressional oversight--Please provide your philosophy on 
how HUD will approach and respond to Congressional information 
requests (both for documentary information and oral testimony), 
if you are confirmed.

A.1. I recognize that Congress plays an important oversight 
role regarding executive branch activities, and I pledge to 
thoughtfully consider all Congressional information requests, 
recognizing the importance of transparency in Government. If 
confirmed, I pledge to work through the accommodations process 
to comply with Congressional requests for information to the 
fullest extent consistent with the constitutional and statutory 
obligations of the executive branch.

Q.2. If confirmed, do you intend to respond to information 
requests differently depending on who is making the 
Congressional information request (whether it's the chair of 
the Congressional committee, the Ranking Member, or another 
member of Congress)? Please answer ``yes'' or ``no.'' If your 
answer is ``yes,'' please explain.

A.2. I recognize that Congress plays an important oversight 
role regarding executive branch activities, and I pledge to 
thoughtfully consider all Congressional information requests, 
recognizing the importance of transparency in Government. If 
confirmed, I pledge to work through the accommodations process 
to comply with Congressional requests for information to the 
fullest extent consistent with the constitutional and statutory 
obligations of the executive branch.

Q.3. Will you commit that, if confirmed, you will timely 
respond to and fully comply with all information requests from 
me? Please answer ``yes'' or ``no.'' If your answer is ``no,'' 
please explain.

A.3. I recognize that Congress plays an important oversight 
role regarding executive branch activities, and I pledge to 
thoughtfully consider all Congressional information requests 
including from any member, recognizing the importance of 
transparency in Government. If confirmed, I pledge to work 
through the accommodations process to comply with Congressional 
requests for information to the fullest extent consistent with 
the constitutional and statutory obligations of the executive 
branch.

Q.4. Will you commit that, if confirmed, you will make yourself 
and any other HUD employee expeditiously available to provide 
oral testimony (including but not limited to briefings, 
hearings, and transcribed interviews) to the Committee on any 
matter within its jurisdiction, upon the request of either the 
Chairman or Ranking Member? Please answer ``yes'' or ``no.'' If 
your answer is ``no,'' please explain why.

A.4. I recognize that oral testimony plays an important role in 
Congress' important oversight responsibilities regarding 
executive branch activities. If confirmed, I commit to brief or 
testify regarding Congressional requests consistent with this 
important oversight function.

Q.5. Do you believe that HUD may assert any privileges or other 
legal justifications to withhold information (whether records 
or oral testimony) from Congress? Please answer ``yes'' or 
``no.''

A.5. My understanding is that any determination as to whether 
HUD has an applicable privilege or other justification to 
withhold information from Congress would be made by the Office 
of General Counsel. Should I be confirmed, and should such a 
question arise during my tenure, I would consult closely with 
that office.

Q.6. If you answered ``yes'' to the preceding question, please 
list every such privilege or other legal justification and 
provide the legal basis for why you believe HUD may use such 
privilege or legal justification to withhold information from 
Congress.

A.6. If confirmed, I would work with the Office of General 
Counsel to ensure that I am fully complying with all legal 
requirements.

Q.7. In an effort to be open and transparent with Congress and 
the public, will you commit not to assert any such privilege or 
legal justification against Congress that you listed above? If 
not, why not? If so, please identify all such privileges or 
legal justifications that you will commit to not assert against 
Congress.

A.7. If confirmed, I would work with the Office of General 
Counsel to ensure that I am fully complying with all legal 
requirements.

Q.8. Regulatory process--How will you lead the Office of Policy 
Development and Research to ensure that each proposed policy is 
reviewed to determine if it is economically significant?

A.8. A Regulatory Impact Analysis (RIA) is required for any HUD 
regulation or mortgagee letter that has a significant economic 
impact. If confirmed, I will work to ensure that PD&R has the 
appropriate staffing and support it needs to conduct rigorous 
RIAs for all HUD regulations that require them. That includes 
ensuring staff are using the best available data and research, 
economic theory, and advice from policy experts when conducting 
their analyses. I will also ensure that HUD staff seek robust 
input and advice from key external stakeholders for major RIAs, 
such as other Federal agencies, OIRA, and through public 
comment.

Q.9. Will you develop regulatory impact analyses for all 
economically significant policies?

A.9. Yes. If confirmed, I will ensure that PD&R conducts 
rigorous Regulatory Impact Analyses (RIAs) for all economically 
significant HUD policies, as required by Executive Order 12866.

Q.10. Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing (AFFH)--When now-
Deputy Secretary Todman was NAHRO's CEO, NAHRO argued in a 2018 
comment letter about AFFH that entities should not have to 
analyze ``non-housing related topics (e.g., transportation, 
education, infrastructure, etc.).'' Do you agree with this 
statement? If not, under what circumstances would it be 
appropriate for HUD to require such analysis?

A.10. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
about the content of rules interpreting and implementing the 
AFFH requirement of the Fair Housing Act. My job, if confirmed, 
would be to assist the Secretary, the Office of Fair Housing 
and Equal Opportunity, and the Office of General Counsel in 
making such decisions in an informed way based on data and 
evidence.

Q.11. NAHRO argued in the same 2018 comment letter that 
entities should not have to ``complete analyses of areas 
outside of their own jurisdiction . . . .'' Do you agree with 
this statement? If not, under what circumstances would it be 
appropriate for HUD to require such analysis?

A.11. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
about the content of rules interpreting and implementing the 
AFFH requirement of the Fair Housing Act. My job, if confirmed, 
would be to assist the Secretary, the Office of Fair Housing 
and Equal Opportunity, and the Office of General Counsel in 
making such decisions in an informed way based on data and 
evidence.

Q.12. NAHRO's 2018 AFFH comment letter also argued that housing 
agencies should not have to hire a consultant to complete the 
AFFH process. Do you agree with this position? If not, why?

A.12. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
about the content of rules interpreting and implementing the 
AFFH requirement of the Fair Housing Act. My job, if confirmed, 
would be to assist the Secretary, the Office of Fair Housing 
and Equal Opportunity, and the Office of General Counsel in 
making such decisions in an informed way based on data and 
evidence.

Q.13. In addition, NAHRO's 2018 AFFH comment letter argued that 
HUD should approve an AFFH plan if the entity at issue, like a 
public housing agency, made a ``good faith effort to comply 
with the AFFH process and submits a fair housing assessment.'' 
Would you support including such a safe harbor in any revisions 
to HUD's AFFH rule?

A.13. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
about the content of rules interpreting and implementing the 
AFFH requirement of the Fair Housing Act. My job, if confirmed, 
would be to assist the Secretary, the Office of Fair Housing 
and Equal Opportunity, and the Office of General Counsel in 
making such decisions in an informed way based on data and 
evidence.

Q.14. Is it ever appropriate for HUD to tell localities 
precisely where to place new housing? If so, under what 
circumstances?

A.14. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
such as whether it is ever appropriate for HUD to take such 
action. My job, if confirmed, would be to assist the Secretary 
and other relevant offices within HUD in making such decisions 
in an informed way based on data and evidence. Having said 
that, my understanding is that HUD does not engage in telling 
localities precisely where to place new housing.

Q.15. Do you believe that any potential revisions to AFFH 
should reduce the burden on localities when compared to the 
2015 AFFH rule?

A.15. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
about the content of rules interpreting and implementing the 
AFFH requirement of the Fair Housing Act. My job, if confirmed, 
would be to assist the Secretary, the Office of Fair Housing 
and Equal Opportunity, and the Office of General Counsel in 
making such decisions in an informed way based on data and 
evidence. My understanding is that HUD has stated an intention 
to reduce the compliance burden to the extent possible in 
formulating a revised AFFH rule. If confirmed, I would work 
with the Secretary and my colleagues across HUD to ensure they 
have the data and information they need to carry out these 
policy choices.

Q.16. Disparate Impact--HUD recently proposed reinstating its 
2013 disparate impact rule. I'm concerned that this proposal 
willfully disregards the U.S. Supreme Court's decisions in 
Texas Dept. of Housing and Community Affairs v. Inclusive 
Communities Project, Inc., 576 U.S. 519 (2015), which 
identified constitutional guardrails for disparate impact 
liability. Under HUD's 2013 disparate impact rule, it seemed 
that defendants were often guilty until proven innocent. 
Defendants lacked the protections announced by the Supreme 
Court in Inclusive Communities, like the need for a plaintiff 
to prove a robust causality between the plaintiff's action and 
the alleged harm. Reinstating this rule without taking 
Inclusive Communities into account will invite a wave of 
frivolous lawsuits against housing providers and made it 
costlier to access affordable housing.
    Do you acknowledge that Inclusive Communities defines 
limitations for the scope of disparate impact liability?

A.16. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
about the content of rules interpreting and implementing the 
Fair Housing Act. My job, if confirmed, would be to assist the 
Secretary, the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, 
and the Office of General Counsel in making such decisions in 
an informed way based on data and evidence.

Q.17. Will you ensure that any revised rule complies with the 
Supreme Court's limitations in Inclusive Communities?

A.17. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
about the content of rules interpreting and implementing the 
Fair Housing Act. My job, if confirmed, would be to assist the 
Secretary, the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, 
and the Office of General Counsel in making such decisions in 
an informed way based on data and evidence.

Q.18. In 2019, when now-HUD Deputy Secretary Adrianne Todman 
was CEO of NAHRO, that organization filed a comment letter 
arguing that HUD should exempt housing authorities from 
disparate impact if a policy is ``a reasonable approach and in 
the housing authority's sound discretion.'' The comment letter 
quoted the Supreme Court in Inclusive Communities that 
disparate impact liability should not ``second-guess . . . 
approaches a housing authority should follow'' and that the 
Fair Housing Act ``does not decree a particular vision of urban 
development.'' As an Assistant Secretary for Policy Development 
and Research, will you evaluate the possibility of including 
such a safe harbor in any revisions to HUD's disparate impact 
rule?

A.18. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
about the content of rules interpreting and implementing the 
Fair Housing Act. My job, if confirmed, would be to assist the 
Secretary, the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, 
and the Office of General Counsel in making such decisions in 
an informed way based on data and evidence.

Q.19. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate 
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's 2015 dictate in 
Inclusive Communities that ``disparate-impact liability [should 
not] be so expansive as to inject racial considerations into 
every housing decision?''

A.19. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
about the content of rules interpreting and implementing the 
Fair Housing Act. My job, if confirmed, would be to assist the 
Secretary, the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, 
and the Office of General Counsel in making such decisions in 
an informed way based on data and evidence.

Q.20. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate 
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in 
Inclusive Communities that ``disparate impact liability must be 
limited so employers [can] make . . . practical business 
choices and profit-related decisions [to] sustain a vibrant and 
dynamic free-enterprise system?''

A.20. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
about the content of rules interpreting and implementing the 
Fair Housing Act. My job, if confirmed, would be to assist the 
Secretary, the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, 
and the Office of General Counsel in making such decisions in 
an informed way based on data and evidence.

Q.21. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate 
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in 
Inclusive Communities to have ``adequate safeguards'' for 
defendants at the prima facie (pleading) stage so ``race [is 
not] used and considered in a pervasive way [that] would almost 
inexorably lead governmental or private entities to use 
numerical quotas . . . ?''

A.21. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
about the content of rules interpreting and implementing the 
Fair Housing Act. My job, if confirmed, would be to assist the 
Secretary, the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, 
and the Office of General Counsel in making such decisions in 
an informed way based on data and evidence.

Q.22. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate 
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in 
Inclusive Communities to have ``robust causality'' between the 
defendant's actions and the harm to a protected class so that 
defendants will not be held liable for racial disparities they 
did not create?

A.22. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
about the content of rules interpreting and implementing the 
Fair Housing Act. My job, if confirmed, would be to assist the 
Secretary, the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, 
and the Office of General Counsel in making such decisions in 
an informed way based on data and evidence.

Q.23. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate 
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in 
Inclusive Communities to focus on removing ``artificial, 
arbitrary, and unnecessary barrier[s]'' to housing?

A.23. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make decisions 
about the content of rules interpreting and implementing the 
Fair Housing Act. My job, if confirmed, would be to assist the 
Secretary, the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, 
and the Office of General Counsel in making such decisions in 
an informed way based on data and evidence.

Q.24. Barriers to Affordable Housing--In January 2021, HUD 
released a report entitled ``Eliminating Regulatory Barriers to 
Affordable Housing: Federal, State, Local, and Tribal 
Opportunities'', which ``identifies many Federal regulations 
and practices that could be revised to eliminate unnecessary 
burdens to providing Americans with affordable, safe, quality 
places to live, including opportunities to make sustainable 
home ownership more achievable.'' \1\ Which of the report's 
recommendations do you agree with?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ HUD, ``Eliminating Regulatory Barriers to Affordable Housing: 
Federal, State, Local, and Tribal Opportunities'', (Jan. 19, 2021), 
available at https://www.huduser.gov/portal//portal/sites/default/
files/pdf/eliminating-regulatory-barriers-to-affordable-housing.pdf.

A.24. I have written extensively about the need to remove 
regulatory barriers to ease upward pressures on housing costs 
and expand housing options and neighborhood choices for all 
American families. Of the many recommendations highlighted in 
this report, I believe the most impactful are within the domain 
of States and local governments. If confirmed, I will work with 
staff to elevate best practices and advance the field's 
knowledge about the impacts of removing regulatory barriers at 
the State and local levels, including but not limited to 
strategies for streamlining permitting processes and easing 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
overly burdensome land use regulations.

Q.25. The January 2021 HUD report on barriers to affordable 
housing described regulatory and sub-regulatory changes to 
modernize Davis-Bacon. \2\ Do you support and will you work to 
implement any administrative reforms to update Davis-Bacon?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \2\ Id. at 48-49.

A.25. Administering Davis-Bacon regulations is not under the 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
purview of HUD's Office of Policy Development and Research.

Q.26. HUD pilot projects--In recent years, HUD has started some 
important pilot programs to study the effectiveness of Housing 
Choice Vouchers and to try to improve them for beneficiaries. 
Would you be open to additional pilots? If so, what kinds of 
pilots?

A.26. If confirmed, I would be happy to support the Office of 
Public and Indian Housing to shape a new pilot program as 
directed by Congress.

Q.27. Ensuring that HUD assistance is not for a ``lifetime''--
In December 2020, HUD Secretary Marcia Fudge said that ``public 
housing or low income housing should not be a lifetime, it 
should be just a stopping point.'' \3\ What do you intend to do 
during your time as the Assistant Secretary for Policy 
Development and Research to advance that goal?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \3\ Errin Haines, `` `I Want To Be Part of Making This Work': 
Marcia Fudge Talks About How She Plans To Lead HUD'', The 19th (Dec. 
10, 2020), available at https://19thnews.org/2020/12/marcia-fudge-
interview-nomination-department-of-housing-and-urban-development/.

A.27. Over the years, HUD has supported a large body of 
research that builds the evidence on promoting self-sufficiency 
for HUD-assisted tenants. If confirmed, I intend to continue 
working with this Committee, the Secretary, stakeholders, and 
program offices within HUD to advance our understanding of how 
public and affordable housing programs can be an effective 
platform for achieving greater economic opportunity for low-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
income tenants.

Q.28. Moving to Work (MTW)--The Moving to Work (MTW) 
Demonstration Program provides public housing agencies with 
exemptions from many existing public housing and voucher rules 
and funding flexibility with how to use Federal funds. Do you 
support expanding the number of MTW jurisdictions to allow more 
communities to experiment on how to make that a reality?

A.28. If confirmed, I commit to working with the Secretary and 
the Office of Public and Indian Housing to advance a rigorous 
research agenda on MTW that evaluates how well the initiative 
is reaching the program's Congressionally mandated objectives, 
which includes expanding the number of MTW jurisdictions.

Q.29. Would you consider expanding MTW to allow defined-stay 
tenancy for new tenants (i.e., time limits) in exchange for a 
set rent that will not increase with income?

A.29. While I cannot comment on HUD's specific plans on the MTW 
expansion, if confirmed, I do commit to consulting with the MTW 
Research Advisory Committee to help inform the future of the 
MTW demonstration and which innovations should be tested. Any 
decisions on the specifics for MTW expansion will be made by 
the Secretary of HUD in consultation with the Office of Public 
and Indian Housing.

Q.30. Environmental regulations--Regarding HUD's environmental 
regulations that govern HUD's programs, how will you balance 
the need to protect the environment with the need to limit the 
cost of building new affordable housing?

A.30. If confirmed, I would use existing, Congressionally 
mandated processes to review environmental regulations to take 
into account both environmental protection and the 
affordability and availability of housing. In many instances, 
making housing safer, healthier, and more sustainable aligns 
with affordability, particularly when considered over the long 
term. If confirmed, I would ensure that HUD makes well-informed 
decisions relying on public input, in-house expertise, 
interagency feedback, and the best available data, research, 
and evidence.

Q.31. Manufactured housing--The Manufactured Housing Consensus 
Committee (MHCC) is a Federal Advisory Committee statutorily 
authorized to develop and submit to the HUD Secretary 
manufactured home construction and safety standards. The law 
requires the MHCC to ``submit proposed revised standards . . . 
to the [HUD] Secretary in the form of a proposed rule, 
including an economic analysis.'' \4\ Accordingly, the MHCC 
must have resources devoted to developing these required 
economic analyses. Will you provide the resources that are 
necessary for the MHCC to develop economic analyses to 
accompany the construction and safety standards being 
considered by the MHCC so that the standards are revised to 
keep up with innovations in the market?
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     \4\ 42 U.S.C. 5403(a)(4)(A)(ii).

A.31. The Office of Housing, Office of Manufactured Housing 
Programs supports the MHCC and works with its members to 
identify and prioritize research needs. If confirmed, I would 
be happy to support the research needs of the Office of 
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Housing.

Q.32. Mutual Mortgage Insurance (MMI) Fund--The FY20 Report on 
the MMI Fund shows that subjecting the FY20 portfolio to the 
same macroeconomic conditions faced during the housing crisis 
would create losses in excess of MMI Fund capital, resulting in 
a MMI Fund capital ratio of -0.63 percent, below the statutory 
2 percent minimum, and requiring a bailout. Would you consider 
it a failure if the Federal Housing Administration (FHA) draws 
funds from the Treasury to cover losses, or put more simply, 
requires a bailout?

A.32. I am not an expert on the MMI Fund. If confirmed, I would 
want to learn more about this issue, and I would ensure the 
Office of Housing has the necessary data and research support 
it needs to make policy determinations regarding the MMI Fund.

Q.33. Do you think the MMI Fund as of FY20 has sufficient 
capital reserves?

A.33. I am not an expert on the MMI Fund. If confirmed, I would 
want to learn more about this issue, and I would ensure the 
Office of Housing has the necessary data and research support 
it needs to make policy determinations regarding the MMI Fund.

Q.34. Do you think it is inappropriate to build a capital 
buffer able to withstand a shock of the kind experienced during 
the 2008 housing crisis?

A.34. I am not an expert on the MMI Fund. If confirmed, I would 
want to learn more about this issue, and I would ensure the 
Office of Housing has the necessary data and research support 
it needs to make policy determinations regarding the MMI Fund.

Q.35. Is the statutory 2 percent MMI Fund capital ratio a 
sufficient buffer to protect against taxpayer losses? If not, 
what do you believe is appropriate? If not the 2008 housing 
crisis, what stress level scenario should FHA consider when 
deciding what capital buffer is sufficient?

A.35. I am not an expert on the MMI Fund. If confirmed, I would 
want to learn more about this issue, and I would ensure the 
Office of Housing has the necessary data and research support 
it needs to make policy determinations regarding the MMI Fund.

Q.36. Do you have plans to impose the same climate stress tests 
and climate change regulatory standards on FHA's lending 
portfolio as several Biden administration officials have 
discussed doing for private sector market participants?

A.36. If confirmed, it would not be my role to make these 
decisions.

Q.37. Eviction Moratorium--Do you think eviction moratoriums 
such as those issued by the Center for Disease Control and 
Prevention (CDC) are good policy? If your answered is ``yes,'' 
please explain why.

A.37. I defer to the CDC and the Administration on any 
decisions related to the CDC eviction moratorium.

Q.38. Are any of the eviction moratoriums issued by the CDC 
legal? If your answered is ``yes,'' please explain why.

A.38. I do not have a legal opinion on this matter.

Q.39. Answering questions for the record--Please describe with 
particularity the process by which you answered these questions 
for the record, including listing every person that assisted 
you in answering these questions along with a brief description 
of his or her assistance.

A.39. The Department of Housing and Urban Development received 
these questions on August 9, 2021. I worked with Department 
attorneys and through the interagency process to answer the 
questions. I finalized and approved all answers to the 
questions and authorized their transmission to the Committee on 
August 13, 2021.
                                ------                                


               RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF
            SENATOR MENENDEZ FROM SOLOMON J. GREENE

Q.1. In a report about eviction, Mr. Greene wrote that housing 
counseling is an element of eviction prevention. \1\ While I 
was able to include $100 million in housing counseling as part 
of the American Rescue Plan, the eviction numbers show an 
overwhelming need for eviction prevention help.
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     \1\ https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/104148/
eviction-prevention-and-diversion-programs-early-lessons-from-the-
pandemic-0-0.pdf
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    In your view, what should Congress do to strengthen housing 
counseling services?

A.1. If confirmed to serve as Assistant Secretary for Policy 
Development and Research at HUD, one of my central 
responsibilities would be to provide the Secretary, program 
offices, and Congress with the data, research and insights they 
need to make evidence-based policy decisions. I am also aware 
of the Secretary's commitment to strengthen HUD's housing 
counseling programs and to ensure that housing counseling 
services are reaching the communities that need them most. If 
confirmed, I would welcome the opportunity to support the 
Secretary, HUD's Office of Housing and Congress by synthesizing 
the best available evidence on housing counseling programs and 
supporting new research to fill knowledge gaps.
    From past research that I and colleagues in the research 
community have conducted, I know that housing counseling 
agencies across the country are retooling their services and 
approaches to address new needs and challenges facing both 
renters and homeowners as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic and 
its economic fallout. I am committed to learning more about the 
resource and capacity needs of these agencies, evaluating the 
effectiveness of housing counseling organizations in preventing 
evictions, and identifying best practices and evidence-based 
policies related to housing counseling.
    If confirmed, I would want to learn more about work 
underway within PD&R to evaluate housing counseling and other 
eviction prevention. I would also want to move quickly to 
propose ways to fill knowledge gaps and improve outcomes with 
HUD administrative data and through PD&R's research agenda.
              Additional Material Supplied for the Record
        LETTERS IN SUPPORT OF THE NOMINATION OF JULIA R. GORDON

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

LETTERS IN OPPOSITION TO THE NOMINATIONS OF JULIA R. GORDON AND SOLOMON 
                               J. GREENE

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]