[Senate Hearing 117-301]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-301
PENDING LEGISLATION
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
on
S. 387 S. 2980 S. 3404
S. 1264 S. 2996 S. 3644
S. 1412 S. 3046 S. 3709
S. 1750 S. 3129 S. 3997
S. 2254 S. 3144 S. 4062
S. 2568 S. 3269 S. 4080
S. 2708 S. 3370 S. 4227
__________
JUNE 7, 2022
__________
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
47-963 PDF WASHINGTON : 2024
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
------
Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Chair
RON WYDEN MIKE LEE
MARTIN HEINRICH JAMES E. RISCH
MAZIE K. HIRONO STEVE DAINES
ANGUS S. KING, JR. LISA MURKOWSKI
MARK KELLY JAMES LANKFORD
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER BILL CASSIDY
CINDY HYDE-SMITH
Renae Black, Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
David Brooks, General Counsel
Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
John Tanner, Republican Deputy Staff Director for Lands
C O N T E N T S
----------
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Cortez Masto, Hon. Catherine, Subcommittee Chair and a U.S.
Senator from Nevada............................................ 1
Lee, Hon. Mike, Subcommittee Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator
from Utah...................................................... 2
Heinrich, Hon. Martin, a U.S. Senator from New Mexico............ 13
Daines, Hon. Steve, a U.S. Senator from Montana.................. 15
Barrasso, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from Wyoming................. 100
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa, a U.S. Senator from Alaska................. 101
WITNESSES
Padilla, Hon. Alex, a U.S. Senator from California............... 15
Culver, Nada Wolff, Deputy Director of Policy and Programs,
Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Department of the Interior..... 17
French, Chris, Deputy Chief, National Forest System, U.S. Forest
Service........................................................ 46
Garfield, Jake, Deputy Director, Utah Public Lands Policy
Coordinating Office............................................ 96
McKenna, Dr. Sean, Executive Director, Division of Hydrologic
Sciences, Desert Research Institute............................ 62
Rieman, Jerimiah, Executive Director, Wyoming County
Commissioners Association...................................... 102
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Abbott, Mike:
Letter for the Record........................................ 857
Adobe Whitewater Club et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 266
Aduddell, C.A.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 444
Alaska Rainforest Defenders:
Statement for the Record with attachment..................... 273
Alaska Wilderness League:
Letter for the Record........................................ 277
Alcock, Taralee:
Letter for the Record........................................ 291
All Pueblo Council of Governors:
Resolution 2018-19........................................... 280
American Exploration and Mining Association et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 282
American Farm Bureau Federation et al.:
Letter for the Record regarding S. 2980 and S. 1264.......... 284
Letter for the Record regarding S. 2568...................... 286
American Rivers:
Statement for the Record..................................... 508
American Whitewater
Statement for the Record..................................... 511
Angler's West Flyfishing:
Letter for the Record........................................ 515
Apodaca, Kristi:
Letter for the Record........................................ 196
Association of Gallatin Agricultural Irrigators:
Letter for the Record........................................ 153
Back Country Horsemen of New Mexico--Gila Chapter:
Letter for the Record........................................ 290
Back Country Horsemen of New Mexico--Lower Rio Grande Chapter:
Letter for the Record........................................ 288
Backcountry Hunters and Anglers:
Letter for the Record........................................ 292
Backcountry Hunters and Anglers--Montana Chapter:
Letter for the Record........................................ 295
Baker, Jesse:
Letter for the Record........................................ 213
Barentine, Judie:
Letter for the Record........................................ 228
Barnes, Beret M.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 297
Barrasso, Hon. John:
Opening Statement............................................ 100
Baur, Stephanie:
Letter for the Record........................................ 299
Bayard, NM (City of):
Resolution No. 5-2019........................................ 311
Beartooth Recreational Trails Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 520
Bearup, Pat:
Letter for the Record........................................ 229
Bearup, Samantha and Clayton:
Letter for the Record........................................ 221
Beebe, David:
Statement for the Record..................................... 312
Bernstein, Mary-Claire:
Letter for the Record........................................ 318
Berzanske, Kathy:
Letter for the Record........................................ 691
Big Sky Chamber of Commerce:
Letter for the Record........................................ 519
Big Wild Adventures:
Letter for the Record........................................ 518
Billings, Jr., Gerald W.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 182
Bower, Sally:
Letter for the Record........................................ 200
Brakel, Judy:
Letter for the Record........................................ 320
Buck's T-4 Lodge:
Letter for the Record........................................ 521
Burchett, Alida E.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 230
Burchett, Robert G.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 231
Business for Montana's Outdoors:
Letter for the Record........................................ 516
Butcher, Russell D.:
Statement for the Record..................................... 170
Carbon County (MT) Board of Commissioners:
Letter for the Record........................................ 522
Carbon County (MT) Resource Council:
Letter for the Record........................................ 524
Catron County (NM) Board of Commissioners:
Letter for the Record........................................ 174
Statement for the Record..................................... 176
Cedar City (UT) Chamber of Commerce:
Letter for the Record........................................ 4
Center for Biological Diversity:
Statement for the Record regarding S. 3269................... 322
Letter for the Record dated June 6, 2022..................... 342
Letter for the Record dated May 30, 2018..................... 344
Chicagof Conservation Council:
Letter for the Record........................................ 345
Chico Hot Springs Resort:
Letter for the Record........................................ 526
Coates, Jim:
Letter for the Record........................................ 347
Coconino County (AZ) Board of Supervisors:
Letter for the Record dated June 7, 2022..................... 116
Letter for the Record dated February 17, 2021................ 117
Comer, Patrick:
Letter for the Record........................................ 348
(The) Commons: Center for Food Security and Sustainability:
Letter for the Record........................................ 349
Conservation Lands Foundation:
Letter for the Record........................................ 350
Continental Divide Trail Coalition:
Letter for the Record........................................ 351
Copper County Senior Olympics:
Letter for the Record........................................ 352
Cortez Masto, Hon. Catherine:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
Cottonwood Resource Council:
Letter for the Record........................................ 527
Cox, Hon. Spencer J., Governor of the State of Utah:
Letter for the Record........................................ 11
Crazy Creek Products, Inc.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 528
Creciendo Nuevo Mexico et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 356
Culp, Wanda:
Letter for the Record........................................ 358
Culver, Nada Wolff:
Opening Statement............................................ 17
Written Testimony............................................ 19
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 248
Daines, Hon. Steve:
Opening Statement............................................ 15
Davis, Kathy L.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 232
Davis, Stacy:
Letter for the Record........................................ 204
Dawson, Daniel:
Letter for the Record........................................ 300
Defenders of Wildlife:
Letter for the Record re Wild and Scenic Rivers legislation
for the Gila and San Francisco Rivers...................... 360
Letter for the Record re S. 3269 with supporting attachments
A-F........................................................ 361
Dick, AnnMarie:
Letter for the Record........................................ 488
Donovan, Cyndi:
Letter for the Record........................................ 220
Donovan, James:
Letter for the Record........................................ 218
Dukowitz, Brittany:
Letter for the Record........................................ 301
Edwards, Alicia:
Statement for the Record..................................... 429
Edwards, Joel:
Letter for the Record........................................ 209
Fierro, Hon. Chon S., Mayor of Bayard, NM:
Letter for the Record........................................ 310
Fishing Outfitters Association of Montana:
Letter for the Record........................................ 530
Fort Sill Apache Tribe:
Letter for the Record........................................ 434
French, Chris:
Opening Statement............................................ 46
Written Testimony............................................ 48
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 258
Friday, Katherine:
Letter for the Record........................................ 302
Frie, Johnnie:
Letter for the Record........................................ 214
Frontier Applied Sciences, Inc.:
Statement for the Record..................................... 436
Gallatin County (MT) Commission:
Letter for the Record........................................ 532
Gallatin River Guides:
Letter for the Record........................................ 531
Gallatin River Task Force:
Statement for the Record..................................... 537
Gallatin Wildlife Association et al.:
Statement for the Record..................................... 445
Garcia Richard, Stephanie:
Letter for the Record........................................ 448
Gardiner Chamber of Commerce:
Letter for the Record........................................ 534
Gardner, Kathy:
Letter for the Record........................................ 201
Garfield, Jake:
Opening Statement............................................ 96
Written Testimony............................................ 98
Gebhardt, John W.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 234
Gebhardt, Linda:
Letter for the Record........................................ 227
Get Outdoors Arizona et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 879
Geyser Whitewater Expeditions:
Letter for the Record........................................ 535
Gila Conservation Coalition:
Letter for the Record........................................ 449
Gila/Mimbres Community Radio:
Letter for the Record........................................ 688
Gila Native Plant Society:
Letter for the Record........................................ 450
Gila Resources Information Project:
Letter for the Record........................................ 451
Gila Resources Information Project et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 453
Grand Canyon Trust:
Statement for the Record..................................... 124
Grand Canyon Trust et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 118
Granite Sports Medicine:
Letter for the Record........................................ 536
Grant County, NM:
Resolution No. R-19-45....................................... 184
Greater Yellowstone Coalition:
Letter for the Record........................................ 459
Great Old Broads for Wilderness:
Letter for the Record........................................ 457
Griffin, Richard and Charlotte:
Letter for the Record........................................ 235
Haas, Timm:
Letter for the Record........................................ 205
Hamilton, Jeanette:
Letter for the Record........................................ 237
Havasupai Tribal Council:
Statement for the Record..................................... 127
Heinrich, Hon. Martin:
Opening Statement............................................ 13
Heritage Waters Coalition:
Statement for the Record..................................... 185
Hidalgo County (NM) Board of Commissioners:
Letter for the Record........................................ 180
Hispanics Enjoying Camping, Hunting, and the Outdoors:
Letter for the Record........................................ 130
Holman, Tom:
Letter for the Record........................................ 199
Humphrey, Trevor and Elizabeth Rydeski:
Letter for the Record........................................ 219
Hunter, Robert R.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 462
Hunt, Jr., Duston L.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 238
Hunt, Patricia E.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 239
Hurley, NM (Town of):
Letter for the Record........................................ 463
Resolution No. 19-2018/2019.................................. 464
Inter Tribal Association of Arizona:
Letter for the Record........................................ 132
Resolution 0121.............................................. 134
Jackson, Mayra:
Letter for the Record........................................ 217
Jensen, Hon. Mark, Mayor of Petersburg, AK:
Letter for the Record........................................ 711
Johnson, Buster D., County Supervisor, Mohave County, AZ, and
Andy Gant, County Commissioner, Kane County, Utah:
Letter for the Record........................................ 168
Johnson, Jeanne:
Letter for the Record........................................ 224
Jones, Stanford L.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 211
Kennedy, Hon. Dan, Mayor of Tenakee Springs, AK:
Letter for the Record........................................ 866
Kilby, Edward:
Letter for the Record........................................ 210
Kito, Rick et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 689
Knight, Rebecca:
Statement for the Record with supporting Attachments A-C and
Figures 1-2................................................ 465
Ladner, Hon. Ken, Mayor of Silver City, NM:
Letter for the Record........................................ 843
Las Cruces Green Chamber of Commerce:
Letter for the Record........................................ 484
League of Latin American Citizens:
Letter for the Record........................................ 486
Resolution Supporting Permanent Protection of the Gila River,
San Francisco River, and Tributaries as Wild and Scenic
Rivers..................................................... 487
Lee, Hon. Mike:
Opening Statement............................................ 2
Lister, Tim:
Letter for the Record........................................ 215
Lone Mountain Land Company:
Letter for the Record........................................ 538
Lougt, Tom:
Letter for the Record........................................ 216
Lujan Grisham, Hon. Michelle, Governor of New Mexico:
Letter for the Record........................................ 461
Lundy, George:
Letter for the Record........................................ 303
Madison County (MT) Board of Commissioners:
Letter for the Record........................................ 145
Madison River Foundation:
Letter for the Record........................................ 541
Madison River Valley Landowners:
Letter for the Record........................................ 539
Mapes, Craig:
Letter for the Record........................................ 489
Martinez, Javier and Antonio Maestas:
Letter for the Record........................................ 490
Mater, Jim:
Letter for the Record........................................ 491
McBeen, Joan:
Letter for the Record........................................ 492
McCauley, Jimmy:
Letter for the Record........................................ 202
McKeen, Robert E.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 240
McKenna, Dr. Sean:
Opening Statement............................................ 62
Written Testimony............................................ 64
Mendenhall, Hon. Erin, Mayor of Salt Lake City:
Letter for the Record........................................ 12
Missouri River Conservation Districts Council:
Letter for the Record........................................ 147
Montana Brewers Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 544
Montana Electric Cooperatives Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 149
Montana Fish and Wildlife Commission:
Letter for the Record........................................ 547
Montanans for Healthy Rivers:
Statement for the Record with supporting attachments......... 494
Montana Outfitters and Guides Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 542
Montana Snowmobile Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 148
Montana Water Resources Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 151
Montana Wool Growers Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 152
Moody, Justin:
Letter for the Record........................................ 673
Moore, Linda and Kin T. Lee:
Letter for the Record........................................ 674
Moore, Sanders:
Letter for the Record........................................ 433
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
Opening Statement............................................ 101
Myrick, Brett:
Letter for the Record........................................ 675
NAACP--Dona Ana County:
Letter for the Record........................................ 676
National Center for Frontier Communities:
Letter for the Record........................................ 677
Nelson, Carolyn:
Letter for the Record........................................ 206
New Mexico Farm and Livestock Bureau:
Letter for the Record........................................ 678
New Mexico Interfaith Power and Light et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 680
New Mexico Wildlife Foundation:
Letter for the Record dated May 30, 2018..................... 684
Letter for the Record dated July 16, 2018.................... 686
Norheim, Brenda:
Letter for the Record........................................ 304
North Dakota Petroleum Council:
Letter for the Record........................................ 692
NorthWestern Energy:
Letter for the Record with attachment........................ 156
O'Connor, Hon. Tim, Mayor of Craig, AK:
Letter for the Record........................................ 354
Oglala Sioux Tribe Natural Resources Regulatory Agency et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 694
Oregon Farm Bureau:
Letter for the Record........................................ 696
Oregon Natural Desert Association et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 699
Letter for the Record........................................ 709
Outdoor Alliance Montana:
Letter for the Record........................................ 549
Padilla, Hon. Alex:
Opening Statement............................................ 15
Park County (MT) Commission:
Letter for the Record........................................ 551
Park County Environmental Council:
Letter for the Record........................................ 553
Payne, Wendy M.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 241
Pearce, Barbara A.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 305
Perez, Michael:
Letter for the Record........................................ 306
(The) Pew Charitable Trusts:
Statement for the Record..................................... 712
Point of the Mountain Chamber of Commerce:
Letter for the Record........................................ 5
Professional Wilderness Outfitters Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 554
Representatives of the Unrecognized Southeast Alaska Native
Communities:
Statement for the Record with supporting Attachments 1-2..... 898
Richardson, Devon:
Letter for the Record........................................ 493
Rieman, Jerimiah:
Opening Statement............................................ 102
Written Testimony............................................ 105
Rigg, Lisa:
Letter for the Record........................................ 242
Rocky Mountain Tribal Leaders Council:
Letter for the Record dated December 15, 2021................ 556
Letter for the Record dated April 26, 2017................... 557
Rosen, Hon. Jacky:
Letter for the Record........................................ 716
Rural and Agricultural Council of America:
Letter for the Record........................................ 555
Sage Lodge:
Letter for the Record........................................ 558
Salt Lake Chamber et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 7
Salvo, Mark:
Packet of news reports on the Sutton Mountain and Painted
Hills Area Wildfire Resiliency, Preservation, and Economic
Enhancement Act............................................ 717
Photos of signatures of thanks for support of legislation
protecting Sutton Mountain................................. 731
San Francisco Soil and Water Conservation District:
Letter for the Record........................................ 189
Santa Clara, NM (Village of):
Letter for the Record........................................ 1055
Schmeider, Carla:
Letter for the Record........................................ 207
Sealaska Corporation:
Statement for the Record with supporting attachments......... 733
Shelley, Sandy:
Letter for the Record........................................ 222
Shelley, Terrell and Charlene:
Letter for the Record........................................ 243
Shelley, Thomas L.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 223
Sibayne-Stillwater:
Letter for the Record........................................ 559
Sierra County Board of Commissioners:
Letter for the Record........................................ 191
Resolution No. 108-026....................................... 194
Silver City Food Co-op:
Letter for the Record........................................ 841
Silver City MainStreet Project:
Letter for the Record........................................ 842
Simms Fishing Products:
Letter for the Record........................................ 844
Sinema, Hon. Kyrsten:
Letter for the Record........................................ 136
Skeek, Thomas:
Letter for the Record........................................ 307
Skofield, Sarah:
Letter for the Record........................................ 561
Slaughter, Russ:
Letter for the Record........................................ 203
Southeast Alaska Conservation Council:
Statement for the Record..................................... 845
Southeastern Utah Association of Local Governments:
Letter for the Record........................................ 6
Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 851
Southern Ute Indian Tribe:
Letter for the Record........................................ 854
Southwestern New Mexico Audubon:
Letter for the Record........................................ 859
Southwest New Mexico Green Chamber of Commerce:
Letter for the Record........................................ 858
Stein, Alan:
Statement for the Record..................................... 860
Stillwater Protective Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 560
Strain, Mike:
Letter for the Record........................................ 208
Sun Ranch Partners:
Letter for the Record........................................ 562
Tenakee Springs, AK (City of):
Letter for the Record with attached Resolution 2021-17....... 868
Thomas, Shauna:
Letter for the Record........................................ 308
Trout Unlimited:
Statements for the Record on S. 387, S. 1750, S. 2568, S.
3129, and S. 3269 with attached letters from other
organizations (Attachments 1-2)............................ 871
Trout Unlimited--Gila/Rio Grande Chapter:
Letter for the Record........................................ 455
Trout Unlimited New Mexico Council:
Letter for the Record........................................ 889
Tuleyome et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 890
Turner Enterprises, Inc.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 563
Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Silver City:
Letter for the Record........................................ 896
United Property Owners of Montana:
Letter for the Record........................................ 154
Upper Gila Watershed Alliance:
Letter for the Record........................................ 1052
UZ Works, LLC:
Letter for the Record........................................ 564
Vail, Clarinda:
Letter for the Record........................................ 138
Vernal Area Chamber of Commerce:
Letter for the Record........................................ 9
Vet Voice Foundation:
Letter for the Record........................................ 1054
Wagley, Megan:
Letter for the Record........................................ 212
Wait, David:
Letter for the Record........................................ 1056
Wallace, Butch:
Letter for the Record........................................ 198
Wallace, Shirley:
Letter for the Record........................................ 197
Water for Arizona Coalition:
Letter for the Record........................................ 140
Western States Water Council:
Statement for the Record regarding S. 2568................... 1057
Position No. 473, dated September 16, 2021................... 1059
Western Watersheds Project:
Statement for the Record with appendix....................... 1061
Wheeler, Joseph D.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 1074
Wild and Scenic Rivers Coalition:
Letter for the Record........................................ 565
WildEarth Guardians:
Letter for the Record........................................ 1076
(The) Wilderness Society:
Statement for the Record on 16 of the bills on the hearing
agenda..................................................... 1079
Statement for the Record on S. 1750.......................... 1086
Letter for the Record dated April 26, 2019................... 1089
(The) Wilderness Society et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 1077
Williamson, Grant:
Letter for the Record........................................ 226
Williamson, Julie:
Letter for the Record........................................ 225
Wilmeth, Stephen L.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 244
Wyoming Stock Growers Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 1092
Wyoming Wilderness Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 1094
Yellowstone Basin Inn:
Letter for the Record........................................ 569
Yellowstone Development:
Letter for the Record........................................ 568
Yellowstone Raft Company:
Letter for the Record........................................ 570
Yodeler Motel:
Letter for the Record........................................ 571
Zane, Stacie:
Letter for the Record........................................ 309
----------
The text for each of the bills that were addressed in this hearing can
be found on the Committee's website at: https://www.energy.senate.gov/
hearings/2022/6/public-lands-forests-mining-subcommittee-legislative-
hearing
PENDING LEGISLATION
----------
TUESDAY, JUNE 7, 2022
U.S. Senate,
Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:59 p.m., in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Catherine
Cortez Masto, Chair of the Subcommittee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM NEVADA
Senator Cortez Masto. Good afternoon, everyone. The U.S.
Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources Subcommittee
on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining will begin. This afternoon
the Subcommittee is meeting to receive testimony on 21 public
land bills. Our goal with today's hearing is to receive input
from the Administration and others on those proposals and to
provide an opportunity for any Committee members to ask any
questions that they might have and also to update the hearing
record for those bills that the Subcommittee has considered
before.
At this time, I would like to briefly talk about two of the
bills that are being considered this afternoon: the Open Access
Evapotranspiration Data Act and the Carson City Public Land
Conveyance Act. S. 2568, the Open Access Evapotranspiration
Data Act, this is my bill that provides an innovative tool that
water managers can use to address the unprecedented drought
crisis that Nevada and the entire West are facing. In order to
address this crisis, we must first know how much water is
available and how much water is being used or consumed in a
water system. And this is where evapotranspiration, or ET,
comes in. ET is a measurement of water that is transferred from
the land to the atmosphere, and often represents the largest
share of water consumption in arid environments. My bill
enhances our understanding of ET data by implementing the
OpenET Data program at the U.S. Geological Survey. This program
will use the best available science and publicly available data
from satellites and weather stations to provide estimates of
ET.
ET data can help measure the health, along with the water
supply, use, or scarcity in different ecosystems, forests, and
agricultural lands. For example, better understanding in
measuring ET of certain areas can help measure and combat the
spread of certain invasive species and it can help implement
efficient water conservation in crop production. This data
would support water conservation and management efforts of
water utilities, farmers, and ranchers, and this program
created by my bill helps ensure that such data is available and
digestible to a wider range of water users and decision-makers,
which would help level the playing field across all water
users. More accurate information on water usage would not only
benefit farmers and ranchers, but it can also assist entire
communities in addressing water issues, especially communities
across the West, like those in my home State of Nevada that are
undergoing extreme, prolonged drought conditions. Our growing
scarcity of water, compounded by the impacts of extreme climate
and growing populations, has made sustainable water management
one of the most challenging issues of our time.
The second bill I want to speak about is S. 1412, the
Carson City Land Conveyance Act, sponsored by Senator Jacky
Rosen and myself. This bill provides for the conveyance of
approximately 2,868 acres of federal land in Nevada to Carson
City to help the city prioritize infrastructure improvements,
spur economic development, and fund conservation and
restoration projects. I look forward to working with the
Administration and members of the Committee to advance both
bills through Committee.
Several Committee-member bills are on the agenda today. I
understand Senator Padilla is joining us as well to speak in
support of his bill. In addition to Dr. McKenna, who is joining
us from the Desert Research Institute, we will hear from a
distinguished panel of witnesses testifying here in person and
remotely as well. And I want to make sure we have enough time
to hear from everyone, so I would ask our colleagues to please
keep your statements as brief as possible. We will make sure to
include everyone's full statement and any supporting materials
in the official hearing record.
Following Ranking Member Lee's opening statement, we will
hear from Senators who want to make a brief statement and then
we will turn to our panel of witnesses.
Senator Lee, you are recognized for an opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE,
U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH
Senator Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would like to welcome Mr. Jake Garfield from the Utah
Public Lands Coordinating Office and want to thank him for
joining us today.
The United States now has a record shortage of more than
five million homes. In 2021, the states with the highest year-
over-year increases in home prices were all in the West. The
home prices in Arizona and in Idaho increased by about 29
percent, in Nevada by 27 percent, and in Utah by 25 percent,
all in just a year's time. Unfortunately, finding land that is
available for more housing is a significant struggle in the
West. Take Utah, for example. While my home state is large,
two-thirds of our land is owned or controlled by the Federal
Government, and my bill, the HOUSES Act, would make tracts of
federal land available to communities to address housing
shortages and affordability.
Now, I want to be very clear about something--I am very
much committed to keeping Utah a premier public land state.
That is why my proposal would preclude using land in national
parks, national monuments, wilderness areas, or anything of the
sort. In fact, very little federal land would even be needed in
order to make a really significant dent in this problem, to
make a big impact on the housing supply. To illustrate, if just
one percent of the federally owned acres in Utah were made
available for housing under my proposal, we could double the
housing units in Utah. The HOUSES Act has been endorsed by the
National Association of Counties and received letters of
support from nearly 20 Utah Chambers of Commerce and AOGs,
representing rural and suburban communities and businesses
throughout the state, and I would ask that these letters of
support be entered into the Committee record.
Senator Cortez Masto. Without objection.
[Letters of support for the HOUSES Act follow:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Lee. Additionally, another important bill for my
state, which I introduced with the Utah delegation, is on the
agenda today--the University of Utah Research Park Act.
Research Park currently hosts 48 companies, 81 university
departments, and a workforce of more than 14,000. The park's
occupants include cutting edge companies in the biotechnology,
pharmaceutical development, and manufacturing spaces, providing
first-class opportunities for students to work and learn
alongside experts in their fields. Unfortunately, over the
course of almost 60 years, certain provisions of the BLM-issued
patent requiring the use of the land to remain non-commercial
were misunderstood, or at least not adequately communicated.
Honest actors of both the Bureau of Land Management and the
University of Utah believed for years that the parcel was in
compliance until a recent review. Now, this bill would allow
for the critical work at the University of Utah at Research
Park to continue, providing for both public and private
innovation while creating exponentially more opportunities for
students.
The bill has been endorsed by Utah Governor Spencer Cox and
the Mayor of Salt Lake City, Erin Mendenhall, and I would ask
that their letters of support also be entered into the
Committee record.
Senator Cortez Masto. Without objection.
[Letters of support from the Governor of Utah and Mayor of
Salt Lake City follow:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Lee. Finally, I want to address another bill on the
agenda today, S. 387, the Grand Canyon Protection Act, which
would prevent mining on or over one million acres of land where
our nation's most potent deposits of uranium happen to exist.
When I was first elected to the Senate, I joined Senator John
McCain in a press conference to express opposition to President
Obama and Secretary Ken Salazar's decision to temporarily
withdraw these lands from mining activity. As Senator McCain
explained it, in 1984, he, along with then House Interior
Committee Chairman, Mo Udall--incidentally, my father's first
cousin--along with Senators Barry Goldwater and Dennis
DeConcini from Arizona, and Utah Senators Orrin Hatch and Jake
Garn, all honored a compromise agreement between mining
companies and environmentalists to protect the Grand Canyon by
adding additional wilderness around the park as a buffer, and
to release the very lands that are the subject of today's bill.
Senator McCain was empathetic that Mo Udall agreed to this
compromise because the mining industry had shown that it could
mine the uranium deposits in the region without inflicting
environmental harm and could reclaim the lands well outside the
park so that traces of mining were almost unnoticeable. But
today, we see that there is no honor for this agreement by the
radical environmentalists who are seeking to permanently
withdraw our nation's most potent deposits of uranium from
mining. They refuse to acknowledge that right now, we are in a
crisis. To illustrate, nuclear power plants generate 20 percent
of the electricity that the American people use daily.
Meanwhile, we receive 56 percent of the uranium consumed for
America's nuclear power plants from Russia or Russian
affiliates.
So how would we maintain nuclear power as a reliable, clean
source of baseload electricity if these Russian imports stopped
or our dependence on them ended up being used against us like
natural gas in Europe? The solution is right in our backyard,
but instead of using those resources, we have legislation being
considered that would block access to these valuable deposits.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
We will now have opening statements from Committee members.
Senator Heinrich.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH,
U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO
Senator Heinrich. Chair Cortez Masto, Ranking Member Lee,
thank you for holding this hearing today on a number of bills
important to my constituents in New Mexico.
First, S. 3404 would provide required Congressional consent
to a proposed amendment to New Mexico's State constitution.
Many western states, including New Mexico, were granted trust
lands by the United States at the time of statehood. Certain
changes in the way the state uses revenue from those trust
lands require the consent of Congress, and this bill does that
for a constitutional amendment passed by the state legislature
just last year. New Mexico already distributes five percent
each year from the permanent fund to support our state's K-12
public schools. Under the constitutional amendment passed by
the New Mexico legislature, an additional 1.25 percent of the
fund would be dedicated each year to education programs,
including early childhood education. Proposals to fund early
childhood education through the state's permanent fund started
about a decade ago when the fund sat at just $10 billion.
Today, it is valued at over $25 billion.
We can keep that money idle, just sitting in the bank in
perpetuity, or we can invest it in our children right now. I
know which will give us a greater return. Extensive research
has found that targeting resources to support development in
the earliest years of our children's lives produces economic
and social benefits, including long-term academic and career
success, and improved health outcomes. For far too long, we
have drastically underinvested in children's success, and if we
want future generations to succeed and thrive, we need to
commit real resources to increase opportunities for them and
their families. Improving our education system is key to making
sure our communities are a great place to raise a family, to
start or expand a business, to find a good paying job, and to
hire the best and brightest employees.
Second, S. 2980 would help resolve conflicts between
livestock and wildlife by allowing permittees to relinquish
their permit to the BLM or the Forest Service requesting that
it be retired. Several permittees in New Mexico have come to me
requesting legislation to allow voluntary permit retirement
because they want to be able to keep their base property in the
family while shifting to a different business model. As one
example, disease transmission between domestic sheep and
bighorn sheep led one rancher to want to retire his grazing
permit while keeping his base property in his family,
preserving his family's memories. This bill would make that
possible for him and those in similar situations and give them
additional tools.
Next, S. 2708, sponsored by Senator Lujan, would ensure
that land grant communities in New Mexico are consulted by
federal agencies and that those communities have a way to
participate in those decisions that affect their traditional-
use lands.
And finally, S. 3129 would permanently protect some of the
most spectacular rivers and streams in our nation. The Gila and
San Francisco Rivers are the heart of Southwest New Mexico and
are home to some of the most outstanding places in the West to
raft, fish, camp, and recreate. This legislation is the result
of years of advocacy by community members who want to see their
local rivers protected. I am happy to sponsor this legislation
with Senator Lujan in response to the overwhelming community
support. We named this bill in honor of my friend, Dutch
Salmon, a writer, angler, conservationist, and the Gila's most
ardent defender, who passed away in 2019. The Gila is a wild
place today because of Dutch's decades of work to keep it that
way, and this legislation will make sure that it will stay that
way for generations to come.
Madam Chair, thanks again for holding this important
hearing, and I look forward to hearing, from our witnesses.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Senator Daines, do you have an opening statement?
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. STEVE DAINES,
U.S. SENATOR FROM MONTANA
Senator Daines. Madam Chairman, thank you. I want to thank
you and Ranking Member Lee for holding this hearing on my and
Senator Feinstein's bipartisan bill called the Root and Stem
Act.
Here are some alarming numbers--63 million acres of our
national forests are at high risk for wildfire, 75.3 million
acres designated as insect and disease, and 80 million acres
are in need of restoration. Despite the significant backlog of
work and the risk it poses to public safety and the ecosystem,
the Forest Service is only treating about two million acres
annually in the West. Researchers at PERC have determined once
the agency initiates the environmental and review process, it
takes an average of 3.6 years to actually begin a mechanical
project, and over five years if an EIS is required. Despite
this lengthy and cumbersome review, Region 1 continues to see a
litigation rate higher than any other region in the country.
The amount of volume under litigation in Region 1 is enough to
frame around 24,000 homes. Meanwhile, Montana is rapidly losing
our timber workforce and our infrastructure.
When I was a kid growing up in Montana, we had just over 30
active sawmills. Today, that number has dwindled down just to
six. Once lost, it is very difficult to restore our wood
products infrastructure in this sector which, in turn, will
have devastating impacts on the resiliency of our forests.
Simply put, the Forest Service cannot keep up with the scale
and the scope of forest treatments that must be accomplished if
they continue business as usual. That is why I partnered with
Senator Feinstein to introduce the Root and Stem Act, which
addresses efficiency and capacity challenges that delay
management projects by empowering the collaborative groups to
take a larger role in project preparation and implementation.
Our legislation provides some common-sense and necessary
litigation sideboards and injunction protections to encourage
collaboration and foster investment, rather than incentivizing
more litigation.
Our legislation was mirrored after the successful A to Z
forest restoration project in the Colville National Forest in
the State of Washington. This project's success proves that
this innovative approach to funding and completing forest
restoration work can provide broadly supported, large landscape
outcomes. Local collaborative groups and local stakeholders can
be our strongest allies in achieving the goal of increasing the
scope and scale of forest treatments if we allow them to be.
The Root and Stem Act appropriately empowers those entities to
play a more prominent role in project identification, in
design, and implementation, in order to increase efficiency and
restore the health of our forests and our communities.
I look forward to today's hearing to discuss this
bipartisan bill and I urge quick consideration. Thanks, Madam
Chairman.
Senator Cortez Masto. Senator Padilla.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ALEX PADILLA,
U.S. SENATOR FROM CALIFORNIA
Senator Padilla. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member
Lee, for allowing me to speak today on the Berryessa Snow
Mountain National Monument Expansion Act. I introduced this
bill earlier this year, along with my colleague Senator
Feinstein, to build on California's preservation of nature and
protection of tribal interests. Our bill would expand the
existing Berryessa Snow Mountain National Monument to include
nearly 4,000 acres of sacred, tribal lands that are already
managed by the Bureau of Land Management. It would also improve
our collaboration and engagement with tribal governments--
plural--and frankly, advance good-faith partnerships to better
manage and care for these sacred lands.
President Obama established the Berryessa Snow Mountain
National Monument in 2015. At the time, he highlighted the
area's scenic landscapes, rich biodiversity, and important
cultural and human history. The national monument is jointly
managed by the Bureau of Land Management and the United States
Forest Service, and it provides for unparalleled outdoor
recreation and diverse wildlife. It also contains lands with
cultural significance for over two dozen federally recognized
tribes. Now, these sacred lands within and around the monument
are central to thousands of years of tribal origin stories. And
in recognition of this history, our bill would expand the
Berryessa Snow Mountain National Monument to include lands
known as ``Molok Luyuk'' which means Condor Ridge in the Patwin
language. Our bill would also require the BLM and Forest
Service to improve tribal engagement and co-management of the
monument, including historic preservation, archeological sites,
and forest health. I actually believe this type of cooperative
stewardship could serve as a model for other regions where
tribal nations seek to work with federal agencies to better
care for sacred lands under federal ownership.
I believe it is our duty to protect the abundant natural
resources and the rich history for today's children and for
future generations. And by requiring federal agencies to
finally develop a management plan and by enabling and
empowering tribal governments to participate in the management
of the monument, our bill will benefit both people and
biodiversity. I look forward to welcoming Secretary Haaland and
Deputy Director Culver on their future visits to the area to
see the site and to meet with tribal nations and tribal leaders
who are seeking this cooperative management. A broad coalition
of local and statewide organizations came together to help
inform the drafting of this bill. The Yocha Dehe Wintun Nation
has led the charge to protect these sacred lands for all
Californians. I am also thankful for the support of the Lake
County Board of Supervisors, the California Wilderness
Coalition, the non-profit Tuleyome, Backcountry Hunters and
Anglers, and many more. And finally, I want to recognize my
colleagues, in addition to Senator Feinstein, introducing the
legislation with me, Congress members John Garamendi and Mike
Thompson for spearheading the bill in the House.
So I want to thank you again for allowing me to testify
today. I look forward to working with you to move this bill
through Committee. Thank you.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
At this time, I would like to introduce our panel of
witnesses. Right now, joining us is Nada Culver, she is the
Deputy Director of Policy and Programs at the Bureau of Land
Management.
We are also joined by Chris French, the Deputy Chief for
the Forest Service.
Also joining us is Dr. Sean McKenna, the Executive Director
of the Division of Hydrologic Sciences at the Desert Research
Institute in Reno, Nevada, who will be speaking on behalf of S.
2568, the Open Access Evapotranspiration Data Act.
We are also joined by Jerimiah Rieman, the Executive
Director of the Wyoming County Commissioners Association, who
will be speaking on behalf of S. 1750, the Wyoming Public Lands
Initiative Act.
And then finally, we will be also joined by video by Jake
Garfield, the Deputy Director for the Utah Public Lands Policy
Coordinating Office, who will speak on behalf of S. 4062, the
HOUSES Act.
I would ask each of you to limit your oral statement to no
more than five minutes. After everyone on the panel has given
their statement, we will turn to a round of questions from
Committee members.
We will begin with Deputy Director Culver's statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF NADA WOLFF CULVER, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, POLICY
AND PROGRAMS, BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE
INTERIOR
Ms. Culver. Thank you, Chair Cortez Masto, Ranking Member
Lee, and members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the
opportunity to provide testimony on 16 bills on the hearing
agenda today related to the Bureau of Land Management, or BLM.
The BLM manages approximately 245 million surface acres located
primarily in 12 western states, as well as 30 percent of the
nation's onshore mineral resources across 700 million
subsurface acres under the Federal Land Policy and Management
Act, or FLPMA.
The BLM is committed to its core mission of multiple use
and sustained yield, which provides for a careful balancing
across many uses and resources to steward the public lands for
all people. The BLM manages public lands for a broad range of
uses, such as renewable and conventional energy development,
livestock grazing, timber production, hunting and fishing,
recreation, wilderness, and conservation, including protecting
cultural and historic resources. Lands managed by the BLM also
provide vital habitat for more than 3,000 species of wildlife
and support fisheries of exceptional regional and national
value. Public lands are an important economic driver for
communities across the West, from commercial activities on
public lands to people drawn to visit or live near them, and
also generate significant tax revenues that support state and
local governments. We appreciate the sponsors' work on the
bills under consideration today, which apply to almost every
facet of the BLM's broad multiple-use mandate. I will briefly
touch on the 16 bills on the agenda regarding the BLM,
referencing them by number so I can mention them all in my five
minutes.
The Department supports several of the bills under
consideration that align with the Administration's conservation
goals and efforts to restore balance on public lands and
waters. This includes S. 2254 and S. 3129, which add sections
of rivers in Montana and New Mexico to the Wild and Scenic
Rivers System; S. 4080, which expands the Berryessa Snow
Mountain National Monument in California and further honors its
cultural significance; and S. 387, which provides protections
to one million acres near Grand Canyon National Park in
Arizona.
While we support the Wyoming wilderness designations in S.
1750, we cannot support its broad releases of wilderness study
areas given their valuable wilderness characteristics.
Four of the bills on the agenda address a transfer of
federal lands and interests. As a matter of policy under FLPMA,
the BLM retains public lands in federal ownership. For FLPMA,
certain public lands may be conveyed out of federal ownership
when it furthers the public interest and the lands have been
identified for potential disposal through the public land use
planning process. The BLM does not object to the proposed
conveyances in S. 1412 and S. 3370 and recommends modifications
for consistency with FLPMA. The BLM opposes S. 4062, which is
inconsistent with FLPMA and notes that some of the bill's
objectives can be achieved under existing authorities. Finally,
the BLM is committed to increased transparency regarding Land
and Water Conservation Fund acquisitions. I would like to work
with the sponsor to align provisions of S. 3644 with our
current efforts.
Two of the bills on the agenda address grazing, a major use
of public lands. The BLM supports the goals of S. 2980, which
would direct us to accept the donation of a limited number of
grazing permits or leases within New Mexico. The BLM does not
support S. 1264, as it diverts LWCF funding and limits the
Bureau's ability to provide for adequate environmental review
and oversight. S. 2708 requires the development of management
guidance for lands within certain land grant-mercedes in New
Mexico. The BLM supports the bill, as it aligns with the
Secretary's priorities to build healthy communities and
economies and to advance environmental justice.
The BLM cannot support the modifications to the Oil and Gas
Permitting Process as outlined in S. 4227, which would remove
the Secretary's discretion to approve drilling permits. The BLM
appreciates the sponsor's efforts in S. 3269 to resolve the
longstanding dispute regarding Alaska Native Claims Settlement
Act eligibility for several Southeast Alaska Native
communities. We defer to the Forest Service on the provisions
related to lands within the Tongass National Forest. The BLM
also supports the goals of S. 3046, which authorizes root and
stem stewardship projects as outlined in the Healthy Forest
Restoration Act to facilitate efficient forest management and
collaborative partnerships.
Finally, the U.S. Geological Survey and Bureau of Ocean
Energy Management have submitted statements on S. 2568 and S.
2996, respectively.
Thank you again for the opportunity to testify on these
bills, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Culver follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
OPENING STATEMENT OF CHRIS FRENCH, DEPUTY CHIEF, NATIONAL
FOREST SYSTEM, USDA FOREST SERVICE
Mr. French. Good afternoon, Chairman Cortez Masto, Ranking
Member Lee, and members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the
opportunity to provide the perspective of the USDA Forest
Service on 14 of the public land bills under consideration
today. I look forward to discussing them.
The USDA understands and shares Congress's clear message
that we cannot achieve our 10-year wildland fuels strategy or
our land stewardship goals without a robust forest industry
capacity. To that end, we are exploring all avenues to support
milling capacity in areas where our supply does not meet
current needs or demands in the Black Hills, but we believe it
is premature to redirect specific Bipartisan Infrastructure Law
funds, such as those proposed in the Black Hills Forest
Protection and Jobs Preservation Act, but we would appreciate
working with the Committee to meet the bill's intended
outcomes.
The Root and Stem Project Authorization Act amends the
Healthy Forest Restoration Act to allow the federal land
management agencies to enter into 10-year contracts or
agreements with eligible entities to design, analyze, and
implement root and stem projects through a collaborative
process on federal lands. USDA is generally supportive of the
bill and increasing capacity to accomplish our work.
The Resiliency for Ranching and Natural Conservation Health
Act amends the Federal Land Policy and Management Act, allowing
for temporary use of vacant grazing allotments for holders of
grazing permits or leases during extreme natural events and
disasters. We support the need to support our ranching
communities during these events and the need for additional
funding to carry out rangeland improvement projects and to
improve public access. However, we do not support the use of
the Land and Water Conservation Fund to provide that funding.
The Wildlife Livestock Conflict Resolution Act allows for
the donation of up to ten leases or permits authorizing grazing
on National Forest System lands in the State of New Mexico per
fiscal year. The USDA welcomes the opportunity to work with the
Committee and the bill sponsor to clarify the legislation
regarding the agency's decision-making authority related to
retiring grazing permits on the National Forest System.
The Wyoming Public Lands Initiative Act of 2021 designates
over 1,000 acres of National Forest System lands on the
Medicine Bow-Routt National Forest as the Black Cat Special
Management Area in Carbon County. USDA has some concerns with
the bill and would like to work with the Committee to clarify
legislative intent regarding management of the National Forest
System Trail 495.
The M.H. Dutch Salmon Greater Gila Wild and Scenic River
Act designates approximately 450 miles of the Gila River system
in New Mexico as components of the National Wild and Scenic
Rivers System, and transfers 440 acres of lands from the Gila
National Forest to the Gila Cliff Dwellings Monument. USDA
supports the goals and intent of the bill as well as those
specific designations that align with the eligibility and
preliminary and classification findings the agency has
completed.
The Montana Headquarters Legacy Act designates 21 rivers as
Wild and Scenic Rivers across the Custer Gallatin, Helena-Lewis
and Clark, and Beaverhead-Deer Lodge National Forests. These
forests completed revised land management plans with robust
public and tribal engagement. We would like to work with
Congress to clarify some technical concerns we have associated
with the proposed designations that do not align with these
forest plans.
The Berryessa Snow Mountain National Monument Expansion Act
expands the boundary of the national monument by approximately
3,900 acres of federal land administered by the Department of
the Interior's Bureau of Land Management in Lake County,
California. We generally support the bill and we would like to
work with the Committee to address specific concerns regarding
the timeline to update the management plans of the monument.
We look forward to discussing with Congress the
Unrecognized Southeast Alaska Native Communities Recognition
and Compensation Act impact on the Tongass National Forest
program of work, as well as opportunities to promote tribal
and/or indigenous stewardship of our federal lands and waters
consistent with our joint secretarial order released earlier
this year.
We support the Land Grant-Mercedes Traditional Use
Recognition and Consultation Act. We would like to work with
Congress to differentiate our work with land grant communities
from our relationship with federally recognized tribes.
The Carson City Public Land Correction Act, as proposed,
would convey a small parcel of land, but also create some
impairment to the Forest Service's ability to provide for
safety, security, and operational needs of Forest Service
employees and we would like to work with the Committee on that
proposal.
The Helping Open Underutilized Space to Ensure Shelter Act
of 2022 amends FLPMA to authorize the sale of certain federal
land to states and units of local governments. The USDA opposes
the bill as written and would like to work with Congress to
address our concerns.
The Grand Canyon Protection Act permanently withdraws over
a million acres of federal lands in Arizona. The USDA supports
the bill and defers to DOI for their views on the bill as it
affects the public lands that are their jurisdiction.
And finally, the Land Between the Lakes Recreation and
Heritage Act, which sets forth provisions that change
administration of the Land Between the Lakes National
Recreation Area. USDA would like to work with the bill's
sponsor to address concerns with the legislation.
This concludes my remarks on these bills, and I look
forward to answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. French follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Dr. McKenna.
OPENING STATEMENT OF DR. SEAN MCKENNA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
DIVISION OF HYDROLOGIC SCIENCES, DESERT RESEARCH INSTITUTE
Dr. McKenna. Thank you, Chairwoman Cortez Masto, Ranking
Member Lee, and members of the Subcommittee for inviting me to
testify today on behalf of the Desert Research Institute, or
DRI, and the OpenET consortium. DRI is a non-profit research
institution in Nevada focused on environmental science and
solutions. Today, I am speaking in support of S. 2568, the Open
Access Evapotranspiration Data Act.
S. 2568 addresses evapotranspiration, or ET. ET is the
process that returns water from the land surface to the
atmosphere through evaporation from soil and transpiration from
plants. ET is the most difficult-to-measure component of the
water cycle. For irrigated agriculture, ET is also a measure of
the water used to grow food. Reliable measurements of ET can
inform irrigation design and scheduling, fertilizer management,
crop water stress, and management of drought impacts.
As members of this Subcommittee are very aware, a record
drought has made water management in the western U.S. one of
the most challenging natural resource issues of our time. For
the first time ever, a shortage declaration has been made on
the Colorado River, forcing mandatory reductions in water use.
The extent of this drought highlights the fact that water
management solutions in the western U.S. must be integrated
across states, basins, and local communities. To manage water
better, we need to measure all of it. We must know how much
water is available, how much water is needed to grow our crops,
and how much water is being consumed through evapotranspiration
from agricultural fields, forests, and rangelands. S. 2568
would establish an Open Evapotranspiration Data program at the
USGS and authorize up to $14 million per year to enable the
USGS, in partnership with public and private entities, to
provide agricultural producers, water resource managers, and
the public with consistent, continuous ET data over large areas
and long time periods along with sustaining and advancing the
underlying science and technology for satellite-based ET
measurement, and to also incorporate ET data into local and
national-scale water planning.
Historically, satellite-based, field scale ET data have
been expensive, fragmented, and difficult to access. To respond
to the record drought, we need ET data that are consistent,
transparent, and reproducible. S. 2568 is intended to provide
easy access to consistent, reliable ET data to anyone who needs
it. The OpenET consortium has helped lay the foundation for
achieving this goal. OpenET is a satellite-based, cloud
computing powered data services platform that combines publicly
available data with the best available science to provide ET
data and information through an easily accessible web platform.
OpenET was developed through an innovative public-private
partnership that included DRI, USGS, NASA, USDA, seven
universities, and working with private sector and agricultural
partners. Through a variety of use cases, the OpenET consortium
has demonstrated solutions that balance water supply with
demands in support of sustained agricultural production and
vibrant rural economies. Examples include, in Utah and Oregon,
developing new irrigation and monitoring technologies to slow
groundwater depletion while reducing pumping costs. In Montana,
assessing low river flows and whitefish die-offs in the Upper
Yellowstone River. In California, reducing the burden of
complying with water-use reporting regulations. And in
Mississippi and Arkansas, developing the data and tools to help
agricultural producers manage water and reduce fertilizer use,
thus reducing costs and benefiting water quality.
As the drought in the West persists, having a clear
understanding of our water use is critical for developing and
implementing drought monitoring, management, and mitigation
programs and for ensuring a sustainable agricultural future. S.
2568 will help advance tools like OpenET that can improve water
management and give farmers and communities the transparent and
easily accessible data they need to develop solutions. I would
like to thank Chairwoman Cortez Masto for her leadership in
introducing this bill and for advancing it to today's hearing.
State and local water agencies in Nevada, Wyoming, Utah,
Oregon, Washington, and California, along with OpenET partners
in these states, are appreciative of the work to authorize a
program at the USGS to produce field-scale ET data for the
nation through S. 2568. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Dr. McKenna follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Mr. Rieman, I understand Senator Barrasso would like to be
here for your opening statement. So we are going to actually
ask Mr. Garfield to go next and then we will have you follow
him.
Mr. Garfield, please proceed with your opening statement.
Thank you.
OPENING STATEMENT OF JAKE GARFIELD, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, UTAH
PUBLIC LANDS POLICY COORDINATING OFFICE
Mr. Garfield. Chair Cortez Masto, Ranking Member Lee,
members of the Subcommittee, I appreciate the opportunity to
participate in the hearing today. My name is Jake Garfield. I
am the Deputy Director for the State of Utah's Public Lands
Policy Coordinating Office. The role of our agency is to
coordinate state government's interactions with the federal
land management agencies and work with our partners on
practical solutions to the challenges facing our public lands.
We strongly support S. 4062, the Helping Open Underutilized
Space to Ensure Shelter Act, and believe that its passage could
significantly improve the affordable housing situation in Utah.
Like many other states in the country, Utah is facing a
severe housing shortage and housing affordability crisis. But
the situation in Utah is particularly challenging due to the
lack of available private land. Approximately 63 percent of
Utah's land area is owned by the Federal Government and is thus
off-limits to any residential development. Utah is second only
to our neighbors in Nevada in the percentage of land within the
state owned by the Federal Government. It is for this reason
that although Utah has a relatively low population density, our
lack of available private land has turned Utah into one of
American's most urban states, with over nine in ten Utahns
living in urban areas. And though there are many different
causes of Utah's high cost of housing, the scarcity of
undeveloped private land is certainly one of the key drivers
behind Utah's affordability crisis.
Housing affordability is one of the key challenges facing
Utah's economic growth, as Utahns see larger portions of their
paychecks go to rent or mortgage payments, and rural
communities struggle to house their workforce as more and more
properties are used as second homes or vacation rentals. This
is certainly a problem nationwide, but it is especially acute
in Utah. We were the fastest growing state in the country
before the pandemic, and the pandemic put that trend on
steroids, as Americans who were suddenly freed to work remotely
left larger cities and moved to places like Utah. In Utah,
housing prices grew 27 percent in 2021 over 2020 prices. And
for renters, monthly prices increased by 21 percent. Governor
Cox and our legislature are working on a variety of ways to
handle this growth and increase the housing supply, but we need
the Federal Government to consider what it is doing to hinder,
or help, these efforts.
Opening certain BLM lands for affordable housing is a
practical solution we would urge this Subcommittee to consider.
Utah is proud to be a public lands state. We cherish our public
lands and want to see our public lands kept in public hands.
But if even a tiny fraction of the 22.8 million acres that the
BLM manages in Utah were made available for affordable housing,
it could significantly increase Utah's housing stock without
negatively impacting public land resources or recreational
access. The reality is that many Utah communities are ringed by
BLM lands that do not benefit either the Federal Government or
the public, lands with little value to recreationists,
wildlife, domestic livestock, or critical mineral production,
but, due to their proximity to existing utilities and
infrastructure, could provide excellent opportunities for new
affordable housing. Indeed, many of these BLM lands are
actually within city limits or even are federal inholdings
surrounded by private land on all sides. Affordable housing
development on such under-utilized federal lands would be a
true win-win scenario that reduces housing costs in Utah
communities while minimizing the management burden on BLM land
managers. Use of these lands for new housing could also relieve
development pressure on Utah's privately owned farmlands, which
are rapidly disappearing in many parts of Utah due to new
housing developments.
To be clear, we understand that housing development on
certain BLM lands will not solely solve Utah's housing crisis.
There is little, if any BLM land in densely populated northern
Utah that would qualify for these affordable housing
applications under this bill. But Utah's housing affordability
crisis is a statewide crisis, and there are many communities
surrounded by BLM lands that would benefit from some BLM lands
being made available, from the booming St. George and Cedar
City metro areas to rural communities throughout southern,
central, and eastern Utah, which lack available private land
and have seen tremendous increases in home values since the
COVID-19 pandemic began. Our fellow public lands states in the
West are experiencing similar challenges, including our
neighbors in Nevada. And yet housing in Nevada is still
somewhat more affordable than it is in Utah, and we think it is
likely that Nevada's greater housing affordability could in
part be attributed to the foresight of Senator Harry Reid and
his passage of the Southern Nevada Public Lands Management Act,
which opened certain BLM lands to development for Nevada's
residents. We respectfully request that this Subcommittee help
pave the way for other western states, such as Utah, to
similarly address the housing affordability crisis. Thank you
for giving Utah the opportunity to express our support for this
bill.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Garfield follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Mr. Rieman, I understand Senator Barrasso would like to
provide an introductory opening statement. Thank you.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. Thank you so much, Madam Chairman, for
allowing me to introduce Jerimiah Rieman, who is here from
Wyoming, and I am so pleased that Jerimiah has joined us today.
He is a fifth generation Wyoming native. He serves as the
Executive Director of the Wyoming County Commissioners
Association. Prior to that, Jerimiah served former Governor
Matt Mead in a top advisory role on our natural resource and
economic issues and actually, he was the top advisor. He is so
well equipped to speak about Wyoming's public lands. I am
delighted he is here. It is locally driven work from Wyoming
counties, and this has resulted in the Wyoming Public Lands
Initiative. So thanks so much for being here today, sharing
your valuable experience.
As regards to the agenda today, there are a number of
important bills before the Subcommittee. I want to discuss
three specific bills that are going to directly benefit
Wyoming's public lands and those who enjoy and rely on them. S.
1750, the Wyoming Public Lands Initiative Act, would resolve
the management status of thousands of acres of federal lands in
seven Wyoming counties. These acres are in wilderness study
areas, which are lands managed solely for preservation, even
though they are not included in the National Wilderness
Preservation System. As the name suggests, the Bureau of Land
Management studies these areas to determine whether they should
be designated as wilderness lands or returned to multiple use
status. But until Congress acts, these acres are treated as
wilderness. So in 1991, the Bureau of Land Management released
a report recommending a balanced approach for Wyoming's study
areas. Some of the land was recommended for wilderness
designation, while the majority was recommended for release
back to multiple-use status. Unfortunately, here we are three
decades later and these lands still remain in limbo and locked
up.
That is why seven of our counties took on the issue with
the Wyoming Public Lands Initiative. This bill, which I am so
proud to introduce on their behalf, is the result of their hard
work. It also generally follows the recommendations of that
report from 1991. It strikes a balance between protecting the
wild places that people in Wyoming love while expanding
multiple-use areas that our state and our local economies need.
Resolving this decade-old stalemate would increase
conservation, recreation, oil and gas production, and other
vital multiple uses of Wyoming's public lands. So I look
forward to continuing an open and transparent process on this
issue. It is my firm belief that it is not Washington, but the
people of Wyoming who should make the decision about how to
treat these lands.
The second bill is S. 1264, the Resiliency for Ranching and
Natural Conservation Health Act, or the RANCH Act. My bill
would help improve our rangelands and benefit ranchers in rural
communities. It is critical that we restore our federal grazing
lands impacted by drought and wildfires. In the interim, our
ranchers must be granted access to vacant grazing allotments.
The RANCH Act would do exactly that by improving rangeland
health and and allowing for the use of vacant allotments. It
would also extend the period of grazing permits and cut red
tape during the renewal process.
The third bill, which I was proud to sponsor alongside
Senator Thune, is S. 3709, the Black Hills Forest Protection
and Jobs Preservation Act. For more than a century, the timber
sale program on the Black Hills National Forest has been the
primary tool for successful forest management. Together, the
Forest Service and industry partners have worked closely to
reduce insect infestation and catastrophic wildfires that
continue to plague our western forests. Recent forest service
decisions to drastically lower timber harvest levels are now
threatening this partnership. One mill has been forced to close
and further closures could follow. If the sawmill
infrastructure is lost in the Black Hills, it will cripple the
Forest Service's ability to manage and protect the forest. By
prioritizing management projects to improve forest health and
resilience, our bill would protect the forest and help provide
local economies and preserve them.
So thank you very much, Madam Chairman. I look forward to
hearing the testimony.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Mr. Rieman, I am going to ask Senator Murkowski if she has
an opening statement before we hear your testimony. Thank you.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI,
U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA
Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and thank you
for the opportunity to provide a couple comments on two
measures that I have before the Subcommittee this afternoon.
The first is S. 2996, the Alaska Offshore Parity Act, which
would facilitate the establishment of an offshore revenue
sharing program for Alaska to provide parity with the Gulf
Coast states. This program will support infrastructure for our
coastal communities, enable us to build up our resiliency while
protecting our coast, and allow us to invest in lower cost and
lower emission energy systems. To me, this is all about
fairness. There is no reason that Alaska, which has the most
coastline of any state out there, tremendous offshore
potential, no reason that we should not be eligible for
offshore revenue sharing. The Gulf states have enjoyed that
since roughly 2006. Alaska has, unfortunately, been left out,
and I think it is time that we remedy that.
To those who are looking at this legislation, I would
reiterate that it does not, on its own, allow for any new
offshore development. It simply says that, look, if any
development is going to take place, Alaska should get the same
consideration and the same benefits that other coastal
producing states already enjoy. So, again, I think this is a
necessary piece of any revenue sharing legislation that might
move through Congress this year, and I appreciate the
Subcommittee's consideration.
The second bill under consideration is S. 3269, which is
the Unrecognized Southeast Alaska Native Communities
Recognition and Compensation Act. Back home, we call it the
Landless Act. This measure would remedy a half-century
injustice. There were five communities in Southeast Alaska--
Haines, Ketchikan, Petersburg, Tenakee, and Wrangell, that were
omitted from ANCSA's authorizations to form urban corporations.
So they have not received their land entitlements. So our bill
allows formation of these long-delayed corporations and
specifies the land parcels that they would receive. It also
includes a number of conditions to ensure that public access,
recreation, and hunting can continue without impediment, and it
ensures protection of the state's transportation easements.
Down in Southeast Alaska, we have a total regional land
base of 22.9 million acres, of which the Federal Government
owns 21.9 million. So my bill provides just one half of one
percent of that land to rightful Native ownership. So I would
encourage my colleagues to listen to the Alaska Native leaders
whose parents pushed for passage of ANCSA and who are now
carrying the torch because this omission still has not been
resolved. This is critical for members to properly understand,
and to support the Alaska delegation on, so that our bill can
move through the legislative process. The five landless
communities have long, rich, indigenous histories, and should
have the same opportunity to share in the settlement of
aboriginal land claims as Alaska Native peoples throughout the
rest of the state.
Now, I do want to recognize that some communities have had
hesitations about this legislation, and specifically, concerns
about additional lands in Southeast moving out of federal
ownership. The fact of the matter is, is that every acre of the
Tongass is special to someone, and that idiom certainly rang
true as we worked on this bill. Mr. French knows very well. He
has been involved in many of these discussions, and I think he
knows that it was no easy task to figure out the land parcels
for the bill. But we conducted extensive outreach, and as a
result, I think the bill before us strikes the necessary
balance, being responsive to the concerns of the local
communities while remedying a half-century injustice for the
landless communities in Southeast Alaska. So I will look
forward to the opportunity to ask a couple questions this
afternoon to Mr. French based on the testimony that he has
presented.
Thank you, Madam Chairman, and to the Ranking Member.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Mr. Rieman, thank you for being so patient.
OPENING STATEMENT OF JERIMIAH RIEMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
WYOMING COUNTY COMISSIONERS ASSOCIATION
Mr. Rieman. Thank you, Chairwoman Cortez Masto, Ranking
Member Lee, and members of the Subcommittee. I appreciate the
opportunity to provide testimony on S. 1750, the Wyoming Public
Lands Initiative Act of 2021. The establishment of wilderness
study areas was intended to be temporary. Thirty-one years have
elapsed since the BLM began managing Wyoming's 42 WSAs as de
facto wilderness. The Wyoming County Commissioners Association
launched the Wyoming Public Lands Initiative (WPLI) as an open
and transparent process following well-defined principles and
guidelines. Our objective was a locally produced, Wyoming-
specific legislative lands package to provide management
direction for WSAs in Wyoming.
Wyoming's counties received formal invitations to engage in
the WPLI process. However, participation was discretionary.
Counties formed advisory committees who were charged with
gathering background information, evaluating current data, and
considering additional resource uses. The public attended
meetings, site visits, and other forums, and were encouraged to
provide presentations, engage in commentary, and submit
proposals for consideration. Once advisory committees completed
their work, final recommendations were advanced to the County
Commissioners and thereafter to the WCCA for legislative
drafting. S. 1750 was written in Wyoming, not Washington, DC.
It is the work of communities, conservation organizations,
outdoor recreation groups, mineral industries, ranching and
agriculture, and wildlife associations. These organizations
found common ground on wilderness designation in multiple areas
while directing alternative management to other WSAs.
In Carbon County, S. 1750 designates the Encampment River
Canyon and Prospect Mountain WSAs as wilderness and establishes
the Black Cat Special Management Area. Further, S. 1750 places
the Bennett Mountain WSA under special management area
governance. In 1991, the BLM determined that Bennett Mountain
was not suitable for wilderness designation. In other words,
the BLM determined that (1) man's imprint was noticeable, (2)
that WSAs lack opportunities for solitude and primitive
unconfined recreation, (3) its size makes it impractical for
preservation, and/or (4) it does not contain features of
scientific, educational, scenic, or historic value.
In Fremont and Natrona Counties, S. 1750 places the
Sweetwater Rocks under special management governance,
consolidating it for WSAs. The BLM determined these areas were
not suitable for wilderness designation. In Fremont County, S.
1750 designates the Sweetwater Canyon WSA as wilderness, adding
2,900 acres more than the BLM recommended for wilderness
designation. Further, S. 1750 releases the Copper Mountain and
Whiskey Mountain WSAs to multiple-use management, subject to
management restrictions and creates the Dubois Badlands
Recreation Area National Conservation Area. The BLM determined
these areas were not suitable for designation.
In Campbell and Johnson Counties, S. 1750 places the
Fortification Creek WSA under special management area
governance. The BLM determined this area was not suitable for
wilderness designation. In Johnson County, S. 1750 places the
Gardner Mountain and North Fork WSAs under special management
area governance. The BLM determined these areas were not
suitable for wilderness designation.
In Hot Springs and Washakie Counties, S. 1750 places the
Cedar Mountain WSA under special management area governance.
The BLM determined that more than half of the Cedar Mountain
WSA was not suitable for wilderness designation. And in
Washakie County, S. 1750 designates nearly half of the Bobcat
Draw WSA as wilderness. The remaining portion is controlled by
special management prescriptions. Further, S. 1750 releases the
Honeycombs WSA to multiple-use management.
Of emphasis, with one exception, every WSA released from
study is a range under special management area governance and
has restrictive prescriptions applied, such as, withdrawal from
mineral and geothermal leasing. Accordingly, development is not
likely. However, this designation may provide the BLM with
flexibility where necessary to control noxious weeds or perform
other hazardous fuels treatments to protect communities from
catastrophic flooding, wildfire, and other disaster. S. 1750
exemplifies leadership and attention to local collaboration and
represents many adjustments and compromises.
In closing, the WPLI rests on Article I of the U.S.
Constitution--that Congress, not federal agencies, has
authority to designate wilderness. The WPLI requires
Congressional action to implement and represents a good-faith
effort to provide Congress with sound recommendations. Wyoming
counties participated not because success was guaranteed, but
where agreement among neighbors exists, Congress might act. The
WCCA looks forward to working with the Subcommittee and
Congress to advance S. 1750 in its entirety. I thank you for
the opportunity to testify and would answer any questions the
Subcommittee has.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Rieman follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cortez Masto. Mr. Rieman, thank you.
We will now begin with questions from the Senators. I will
start.
Dr. McKenna, let me start with S. 2568, my Open Access
Evapotranspiration Data bill. As you know, Southern Nevada and
the entire West is facing an unprecedented drought that
requires innovative solutions. To help address this crisis and
maximize the benefits of our water supplies, it is important
that all water users and decision-makers have a better
understanding of how our water systems work and how much water
is actually present and how much is being used across our water
system. So can you talk a little bit about how OpenET can help
with current drought conditions that we see in the West?
Dr. McKenna. Yes, thank you, Chairwoman Cortez Masto.
As you said, the western U.S. is in the throes of an
unprecedented drought right now. This is probably the driest,
longest period in 1,200 years at this point. And just focusing
on the Colorado River, there are around 40 million people that
depend on the river as a source of water, and that is a source
for irrigation, for drinking water, as well as for generation
of hydroelectricity. OpenET can help in this case with
determining how much water in the Colorado Basin across seven
different states is being lost to ET. So how is that water
used? How is it best used? How can it be put to better use?
As I said, in the water cycle, ET is the most difficult
component to measure. This bill would provide and leverage a
long-term investment over decades by several federal agencies
to provide the data necessary to determine the amount of
moisture coming off of the land's surface.
Senator Cortez Masto. And how would the information that
would be made publicly accessible by this bill benefit water
users and decision-makers, and what would be the status quo
without it?
Dr. McKenna. So the idea behind the bill is to make ET data
available to the public and make that easily accessible by all.
Right now, there is a bit of a patchwork from different states
doing different things with ET data, and as you move from one
state or maybe even one basin to the next, the consistency of
the ET data may not be the same. So this bill would allow the
USGS and partners to provide consistent, accurate OpenET data
for all users, and that would be accessible through a web
portal.
Senator Cortez Masto. And as you know, evapotranspiration
is a measurement of the water that is transferred from the land
to the atmosphere. It does not actually refer to the
application of additional water applied to the land for
agricultural purposes. So can you describe how you and the
OpenET coalition have been working with the Ag community and
how this bill would benefit the agricultural community?
Dr. McKenna. Right, so a great use of OpenET--and this
technique is to determine how much water is being lost from
crop fields, from rangelands, from forests--this can be used to
schedule irrigation and to do that more effectively. One of our
test cases that we have been doing in is the Harney Basin in
Oregon, and our contact there is State Representative Mark
Owens. He has been able to reduce--he farms about 1,200 acres--
he has been able to reduce his consumption of water by about 15
percent and his energy costs have also gone down 18 to 20
percent.
So when we talk with agricultural growers--farmers--they
are some of the most innovative people that you will meet
anywhere. And if you give them the data, they are able to take
it and use it in ways that we often don't even think of. I
expect that to be the case here as well.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
And OpenET was actually developed in 2017 through a public-
private partnership that was led by NASA, Desert Research
Institute, Google Earth Engines, and several universities, with
input from more than 100 stakeholders. This evapotranspiration
data already exists and is already being utilized in a limited
capacity. What my legislation does is, it aims to make this
data available to the public and for this data to be created at
a larger scale. How do the research partnerships fostered by
this bill help translate into real benefits on the ground?
Dr. McKenna. This OpenET consortium, since 2017, has been
bringing together, really, the best scientists in the world and
in the nation to bring best available science to the generation
of these OpenET data, and that will continue. What is missing
right now is a permanent home for the distribution of these
data where these scientists can continue to bring best science.
And this bill would make that in the USGS.
Senator Cortez Masto. Dr. McKenna, thank you.
Dr. McKenna. Thank you.
Senator Cortez Masto. Senator Lee.
Senator Lee. Mr. Garfield, a large and pretty diverse
number of communities are dealing with housing shortages and
with housing affordability issues. As you describe in your
testimony, there are a lot of those communities that have a
pretty significant amount of land under the control of the
Bureau of Land Management, sometimes within their own
boundaries. Can you describe how these lands might be useful in
addressing our housing issues?
Mr. Garfield. Absolutely. In many of these communities
there are BLM lands that abut existing housing developments.
And so, there is electricity, there is sewer, there are roads.
There is the infrastructure needed to build housing--affordable
housing, in particular, in close proximity to these BLM lands
that are just on the fringe of the developed areas. And that is
why we believe that there are real opportunities on some of
these parcels of otherwise underutilized BLM land to build
housing in an affordable and practical way.
Senator Lee. What types of housing could be supported on
land approved through legislation like this in order to address
the housing shortages we have?
Mr. Garfield. Well, this bill would provide flexibility to
the units of local government--cities or counties that are
making the application. There would be a minimum density, so
there would not be an opportunity to just build giant mansions
on this land, but it could give communities opportunity to
proceed with high-density housing, if that is what they felt
was the best thing for their community, or with single-family
housing, if that is what they felt was the greatest need for
the community, again, with a minimum density so it would still
have an affordability component. But we really would strongly
support the idea of flexibility to communities because they
know what is most needed within their own circumstances.
Senator Lee. Sometimes it is the steep cost of land that
ends up precluding local governments from developing affordable
housing projects within their boundaries. Now, some communities
dealing with housing shortages are small and have limited
budgets, limited funds at their disposal to do this. How will
they be able to access the benefits of this legislation?
Mr. Garfield. Well, this legislation will make the land
available at a PILT ratio price to allow units of local
government that flexibility and acquire the land at a less
expensive price, so they would have the funds available to do
so. And we would support that concept because counties are
receiving PILT--Payment In Lieu of Taxes--from the Federal
Government at generally much less than they would normally
receive as property taxes, if these lands were privately owned.
In our opinion, the idea of counties or cities acquiring these
lands at a PILT ratio price would be fair.
Senator Lee. Now, there are those who may presume in
looking at this that this proposal may be useful only to urban
areas. Can you describe what other types of communities might
benefit from this proposal?
Mr. Garfield. There are a lot of very small, rural
communities in Utah that are still dealing with a real housing
shortage and a real lack of affordable housing--communities
surrounded by often underutilized BLM land. And these are
communities that are possibly suffering the most because they
simply have nowhere for their workforce to live. And there are
certain towns in Utah where people are commuting multiple hours
from out of state to work in the industries within these
communities. And so, it is absolutely some of our most rural
communities--communities like Kanab jump to mind--that could
really benefit from developing more housing on these
underutilized BLM lands.
Senator Lee. Something that sometimes worries me involves
the ongoing conversion of western farmland to be used for
housing. Can you tell us how, under this bill, the bill might
be able to provide help for continued growth in rural areas
without triggering this concern, in other words, while
preserving more traditional agricultural uses?
Mr. Garfield. Yes, Utah's irrigated farmland is very scarce
and it is disappearing, primarily because of housing
development. We do not have enough farmland in Utah and we do
not have enough water, really, and if we could use even a small
percentage of BLM lands surrounding these rural communities, we
would be able to preserve more of this farmland, keep it in
agriculture, keep that critical part of our community's
economies going while still allowing communities to grow. That
would be a real blessing for Utah.
Senator Lee. Okay. I see my time is expired. Thank you,
Madam Chair.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. French, I want to ask you a wild and scenic question,
broadly, and basically that is, does a wild and scenic river
designation impact the underlying existing water rights in the
basin where a river is designated?
Mr. French. As the Wild and Scenic River Act is written, it
is no. It should not. Now, there is a base level of water that
should remain, and that is usually adjudicated through state
water rights.
Senator Heinrich. Right. So in the case of New Mexico, for
example, water rights are first governed by state statute, and
in this case, by New Mexico's state engineer, correct?
Mr. French. Correct.
Senator Heinrich. What about private land? Does a wild and
scenic river designation impose restrictions on nearby private
lands?
Mr. French. It does not. There are cases where you see
increased use and those sorts of impacts, but it doesn't have a
direct impact.
Senator Heinrich. But not governance of the land itself and
how that land is used by the individual landowner?
Mr. French. It does not.
Senator Heinrich. Ms. Culver, under the Wild and Scenic
Rivers Act, rivers are managed to protect values that are
identified to be outstandingly remarkable. Can you just give me
some examples of the types of resources that have, in the past,
been identified as outstandingly remarkable values in some of
our wild and scenic rivers?
Ms. Culver. Thank you for the question, Senator Heinrich.
Sure. As you mentioned, the outstandingly remarkable values
can include a wide range of values, from scenic to geologic to
wildlife, cultural values and in connection with the Gila, for
example, there is a number of bird species, such as the
southwestern willow flycatcher. Of course, there are fish,
including the Gila chub, and reptiles. We have a couple of
different garter snakes in that area. And also, in that same
area along the river we have some heritage resources, such as
cliff dwellings and shelters that date back thousands of years.
Senator Heinrich. Yes, I remember well from a backpack a
few years ago, my children being able to see some of those
cultural resources and think about just how long history goes
back in the State of New Mexico, in particular. So thank you
all for your testimony today and Madam Chair, I am going to
reserve the--or give back the balance of my time.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Senator Murkowski. Oh, excuse me, Senator Barrasso? You are
ready?
Senator Barrasso. Yes, I am, thanks, Madam Chairman.
Just following up with Senator Heinrich, Jerimiah, I was
just noticing this magnificent book that you wrote, ``Wyoming
Singletrack'' and I don't know if you want to follow up and
explain to him what we could do in Wyoming if we put him on a
bike and some opportunities you might have for Senator
Heinrich?
Senator Heinrich. And Senator Lujan, who is a passionate
mountain biker.
Mr. Rieman. Senator Barrasso, I appreciate that. I have
written Wyoming Singletrack: A Mountain Bike Trail Guide, and
would welcome anybody to Wyoming to enjoy our wonderful trail
systems across the state, both on BLM and Forest Service lands,
as well as other public lands in our state.
Senator Barrasso. The trail system in Teton County is
really second to none, worldwide. People come from all around
the world to ride those trails.
Mr. Rieman. Senator Barrasso, it is not only Teton County,
but right in my backyard. Curt Gowdy State Park is one of the
International Mountain Bike Association's 50 epic rides in the
world.
Senator Barrasso. Excellent. Well, let me get to the topic
of the bills, but thank you for the book and for the
information.
You know, as I mentioned earlier, I believe the best public
lands decisions are those at the local level, locally driven.
So that is why I was so proud to introduce this county-led
Wyoming public lands initiative. Can you elaborate just a
little bit on the local citizen and stakeholder outreach to
make sure that everybody had a say in this as you crafted this
important initiative?
Mr. Rieman. Thank you, Chairwoman Cortez Masto, Senator
Barrasso, it was very important to the County Commissioners
Association that we develop a process that ensured the access
of anybody that wanted to participate in this process. And so,
not only in the development of the process itself, the
principles and guidelines that directed the process, but also
the conversations themselves were deliberate to ensure that we
heard as many voices as possible and that we developed this
legislation in collaboration. And that is something that I and
the County Commissioners are excited about relative to S. 1750.
Senator Barrasso. And it was the BLM that made the
recommendations of a way to resolve the Wyoming Wilderness
Study Area decades ago, over 30 years ago, but even they
recommended that the lands continue to remain in limbo because
Congress has not acted on those recommendations. So simply
doing nothing and not allowing these lands to be used to their
full potential seems like a wasted opportunity. Can you
elaborate on the specific conservation and economic benefits
that would result if this legislative initiative were to pass
into law?
Mr. Rieman. Chairwoman Cortez Masto, Senator Barrasso, this
is a tremendous opportunity for us to highlight some of the
most important landscapes in our state, under wilderness
designation in many instances, but also to ensure that we can
protect communities where appropriate and to allow for access.
We need more of that in our current environment given the vast
number of individuals that are interested in visiting our
public landscapes.
Senator Barrasso. Great.
Ms. Culver, the RANCH Act is going to allow ranchers to
temporarily use vacant grazing allotments during times of
drought. Currently, the BLM needs to update the analysis under
the NEPA, the National Environmental Policy Act, for these
vacant allotments. Do you know if the BLM is prioritizing NEPA
evaluations for vacant allotments for future grazing activity?
Ms. Culver. Thank you for the question, Senator Barrasso.
The BLM is prioritizing completing NEPA and rangeland health
analysis on our grazing allotments, generally. In the meantime,
we have authority to continue permits until we finish that
analysis. We are using and developing more tools to work with
permit and leaseholders in the context and in this time of
drought and other challenging conditions. So we do prioritize
helping with vacant allotments in those situations.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
And Mr. French, on the Black Hills Forest Protection and
Jobs Preservation Act, would you help ensure the continued
management of the Black Hills National Forest, protecting it
from future wildfires and disease epidemics? Can you discuss
your vital role and industry's role in this industry-driven
sawmill infrastructure, which is there for the health of the
forest and has made a difference?
Mr. French. Yes, so thank you for the question, Senator.
We have prioritized that landscape as part of our ten-year
wildland fuels strategy. We have delivered to the region
unprecedented resources to address the conditions that are
there in the Front country of Colorado, all the way over to the
Black Hills, and we recognize that our forest products partners
in milling capacity can be critical in us doing that work
efficiently and effectively.
Senator Barrasso. Because if you were to lose these
partners, how difficult would it be for the Agency to attract
and retain new sawmills?
Mr. French. Very difficult. In places where we have lost
infrastructure, you know, we see that throughout the West. It
is very difficult for us to rebuild and recapitalize that.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Senator Cortez Masto. Senator Kelly.
Senator Kelly. Thank you, Madam Chair and thank you to all
of you for being here today for this important hearing.
Ms. Culver and Mr. French, I want to first thank both of
you for testifying on behalf of the Bureau of Land Management
and the Forest Service on S. 387, the Grand Canyon Protection
Act. As you both know, mining is an important part of Arizona's
history and a major part of our economy. At the same time,
uranium mining around the Grand Canyon is just a bad idea. It
is as simple as that. It presents an unacceptable level of risk
to aquifers and springs inside of Grand Canyon National Park
and it threatens--it threatens--the Havasupai Tribe, and they
have lived in the Grand Canyon for more than 800 years. The
bill that Senator Sinema and I introduced would prevent mining
on roughly about a million acres of federal land that surrounds
the Grand Canyon National Park. And this is a lot of land--a
million acres. I get that. But it is also because the Grand
Canyon is a 277-mile stretch of the Colorado River and it is
one of the largest national parks in the country.
Right now, there are seven uranium mines located outside
the park's boundary. These are small mines that have operated
for many years under a boom-and-bust cycle, depending on the
price of uranium ore. And today, uranium prices, they are
pretty high. They are the highest they have been in over a
decade. And at least one mine is looking to resume production
soon, and there are hundreds of mining claims in the area that
could be developed if uranium prices continue to climb, as they
are projected to. And all of us understand--I understand the
importance of a secure and reliable supply of uranium. At the
same time, this accounts for just a small sliver of our uranium
reserves here in the United States. And our trading partner to
the North, Canada, plans to increase production of high-grade
uranium needed for advanced nuclear reactors. So the bottom
line here is that Arizonans--myself, Senator Sinema, I think
folks on this Committee and in the U.S. Senate and in
Congress--there are many of us that want to protect the Grand
Canyon from uranium mining.
So Madam Chair, I have a whole list of letters here. So I
ask for unanimous consent to add to the record--these are
statements from Senator Sinema, from the Havasupai Tribe, from
cities and towns, the Coconino County Board of Supervisors,
Trout Unlimited, and others, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. I
have a whole list of them. I ask for unanimous consent for
these statements to be entered into the record.
Senator Cortez Masto. Without objection.
[Letters for the record on S. 387 follow:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Kelly. So Ms. Culver and Mr. French, has leadership
at the Bureau of Land Management or the Forest Service in
Washington, I am curious, have you met with tribal leaders
about their concerns on this issue?
Ms. Culver. I will start. Thank you for the question.
During the time when we were considering in the initial
withdrawal, which went into place in 2012, we did extensive
outreach and meetings with the tribes in the area.
Mr. French. And I would just add, yes, we do it at the
local level in the forest, bi-monthly meetings. Within the
region, we just had a round table last week and nationally, we
have been having consultation, including these issues.
Senator Kelly. And Ms. Culver, so do you know how many
mining claims that are on federal lands would be withdrawn
under this legislation when it passes?
Ms. Culver. We last estimated this back in 2019 and there
were over 600 of them.
Senator Kelly. Over 600. Well, I cannot think of an
environmental issue in the State of Arizona, I mean, we have a
lot of them. But we have so many folks who come to the Grand
Canyon, millions every year, from all over the world. It is not
just one of the most amazing features of the State of Arizona,
it is of this country, and I think, you know, the planet. We
have to do everything we can to protect it. And so, this
legislation is incredibly important to do this. So thank you
for being here.
Senator Cortez Masto. Senator Daines.
Senator Daines. Chair, thank you.
I want to talk about the Root and Stem Act. The Forest
Service committed to treat an additional 20 million acres of
national forest over the next ten years. If we truly want to
accomplish this goal, the status quo will not work, and that is
why I introduced this Root and Stem Act with Senator Feinstein
of California. My bill seeks to address both efficiency and
capacity challenges by allowing the preparation of the
environmental analysis to be contracted with an independent
third party and included as a service item under a stewardship
contract agreement.
Mr. French, how might contracting the preparation of
environmental analysis address agency, NEPA, and planning
capacity constraints?
Mr. French. It has a great impact. I would say our
environmental analysis and decision-making and our work to
comply with NEPA and other laws, probably is the biggest
bottleneck we have for project execution outside of
implementation capacity. Where we have contracted, like the A-
to-Z project that this was fashioned around, we saw more than a
20 percent efficiency, just in our own planning time, and it
was all capacity outside the agency.
Senator Daines. You just started going into the next
question I was going to ask you, which is looking at that A-to-
Z project, modeled at the Colville National Forest in
Washington, which is where we got the idea from. Could you
speak to how that project empowered a local collaborative group
to improve forest resiliency?
Mr. French. It was essential, I think, when you design
something like this, which is essentially from the very
beginning asking all the stakeholders, in this case, the
broader collaborative, to come up with a solution, is that you
create long-term ownership in the outcome. And by doing it with
outside parties, the agency, not having to lead that, I
actually think it created broader outcomes, I mean, long-term
outcomes.
Senator Daines. Mr. French, thank you.
I am going to switch gears and talk for a moment on another
bill before the Committee today that impacts Montana, and that
is the Montana Headwaters Legacy Act. This bill would designate
376 miles of river segments as wild and scenic rivers in
Montana. I am a lifelong sportsman. I know firsthand the
importance of protecting Montana resources, especially as our
state continues to grow. And when done correctly, this,
frankly, should not be a partisan issue. The entire Montana
delegation partnered to move forward the designation of the
East Rosebud in Montana in 2018. This bill, however, nearly
doubles Montana's mileage of river segments designated as wild
and scenic. And as I have said from the beginning, I have
significant concerns about such a broad approach.
In the past, we have seen designations hinder or delay
aquatic restoration, grazing, and fuels management projects,
which is why legislation like this should be pursued carefully.
With the East Rosebud, we worked very hard to deliver a
collaborative approach and widespread support. Over 99 percent
of the landowners supported it and we were able to finally get
that done. However, over this past year, I have received a lot
of input on this proposal, including a petition from over 170
concerned landowners and growing--county commissioners,
irrigators, and other stakeholders who are opposed to it.
I would like to ask unanimous consent to submit these
letters to the record, Madam Chair.
Senator Cortez Masto. Without objection.
Senator Daines. It is from the Madison County
Commissioners, these letters of opposition, 173 landowners, the
Montana Water Resources Association, the Association of
Gallatin Agricultural Irrigators, MECA, NorthWestern Energy,
Montana Wool Growers, the Missouri River Conservation District,
petition from CBU, UPOM and the Montana Snowmobile Association.
I appreciate that.
[The letters referred to follow:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Daines. When compared to bottoms-up, ground-up,
heavily vetted and strongly supported designations, like we had
with the East Rosebud, or like we saw with Senator King's York
River bill, this proposal just does not pass muster in
comparison of the support right now that we have back home in
Montana.
Mr. French, in light of the drought that Montana has been
experiencing--and we are very thankful for recent rains and
snow we have had, and that we had the coolest April in 40 years
in Montana. In fact, Miles City is going to have the latest
date in history since the record was created back in the 1930's
of hitting 80 degrees. We haven't hit it yet. It will be
probably sometime later this week. So we are having a very cool
spring, which we are very thankful for, much needed, but we are
still in a drought, a drought environment.
I get asked what these designations might do for project
design to respond to the drought. What are the potential
impacts to projects on the river segments or buffer zones
intended to mitigate wildfire risk, address sedimentation or
aquatic health, or respond to drought?
Mr. French. So without knowing the specifics of those, it
would be hard for me to say. In general, there is just a
different management approach that is taken when you are
managing along wild and scenic rivers because you have to
maintain the quality of the rivers and enhance them.
Senator Daines. Does it in any way impede what you try to
do regarding some of the mitigation efforts or----
Mr. French. Senator, could you repeat the question?
Senator Daines. What impacts might it have on projects on
the river segments or buffer zones intended when you are trying
to mitigate wildfire risk----
Mr. French. Yes, it will change the type of treatments that
you are doing. Often, you are not doing mechanical treatments
right up to the edge to make sure you are maintaining the
scenic quality of wild and scenic rivers, and it can change the
timing that you're doing--let's say, managed fire, prescribed
fire--those sorts of things. Like, that is the sort of changes
that we see at times.
Senator Daines. Right. Mr. French, thank you.
Mr. French. You're welcome.
Senator Cortez Masto. Senator Murkowski.
Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Mr. French, I want to ask a couple questions about the
Landless bill, and quite honestly, I found the testimony that
you offered to the Committee more than a little bit lacking. I
understand it is what the Administration is willing to clear,
and then they send you out to say what you have to say, but you
know, this may be a new issue for the Administration, but as
you know, this has been around for a long time--51 years now--a
resolution for Alaska Natives that have been seeking some
certainty here now for a while. And so, to have a statement
that says, you know, we recognize and we acknowledge the
importance of tribal priorities, it does not appear to me, in
reading the testimony, that the Administration actually
supports land for the landless communities in Southeast Alaska.
So can you just clarify--yes or no, does the Administration
support the landless communities here?
Mr. French. Yes, thank you, Senator. And if the testimony
was not clear, generally, the Administration supports the
approach there. I think what was trying to be brought forward
was just clear, here is the impacts, you know, so, and it was
mostly impacts on National Forest System lands of what it would
mean for implementation, not those impacts that are broader to
the tribes and the landless communities. But overall,
generally, my understanding is support.
Senator Murkowski. Okay, that is good to know because,
again, this is something that we have been seeking resolution
on for decades now and I think the Administration has been
pretty forward in presenting itself as a champion of native
priorities, particularly when it comes to stopping some of the
resource development projects. But hopefully, this is not going
to be a situation where you back off that support for, again,
Alaska Native people that have been waiting for some 51 years.
You mention in your testimony that one of the challenges
that we face are the various land use designations (LUDs) that
we have--the special wilderness areas that are scattered across
the Tongass that make it hard to find these parcels without
existing uses. It is complicated. I get that. I get it. And so
I want to have your commitment that you will have your staff
sit down with folks in my office to discuss how we can make
some of the LUDs surrounding these communities to limit the
potential effects on Forest Service management in the forest.
We are going to have to work together on this to resolve it,
and you have acknowledged the Administration wants to work to
try to resolve it. So I just ask for your support in doing
that.
Mr. French. Yes, I mean, absolutely. And I think the
intention of the testimony was more to say, here's the
consequence of this, not necessarily trying to say it wasn't in
support. It was more saying you will have some recreation areas
that are currently there that will now be moved over in this
transference----
Senator Murkowski. So, to that, I want to ask specifically,
because since the Administration has come in, we have seen
policies reversed in the Tongass. We, as you know, we have been
desperate to try to find a way to ensure that Secretary Vilsack
stays on this 2016 Tongass transition strategy from the old
growth to the young growth. The logging industry bought into
that strategy back in 2016, began their pivot to the young
growth, but then, the Forest Service never really followed
through with that. And Secretary Vilsack told me directly--he
said, ``Market conditions have changed. They forced the Forest
Service to move away from that strategy.'' And now, it is kind
of ironic, actually, because now, we see in the testimony that
the Forest Service has concerns about the bill because of its
impact to the 2016 Tongass transition plan.
So are you saying that the Forest Service is currently
trying to implement the Tongass transition strategy that
Secretary Vilsack signed back in 2016?
Mr. French. We are continuing to try to move forward with
delivering young growth stands. The time frames are several
years out right now, I think, as you know, Senator. But what
this testimony is trying to say is, some of those study areas
and some of those primary areas that would be in that
transition would no longer be part of the Forest Service in the
future. And so, that is the impact.
Senator Murkowski. Well, I just want to wrap this by just
sharing with you, you know, you have the Southeast Alaska
Sustainability Strategy----
Mr. French. Right.
Senator Murkowski [continuing]. SASS. We have $25 million
coming from the Department. The Secretary says they are
intended to implement and foster additional economic
opportunities in Southeast. And he has a very nice quote about
the meaningful consultation with the tribal governments and the
ANCs, engaging with local communities: ``This approach will
help us chart the path to long-term economic opportunities that
are sustainable and reflect Southeast Alaska's rich cultural
heritage.'' So if what the SASS is really intended to do is to
promote long-term economic opportunities that are sustainable
and reflect the cultural heritage, it seems to me that a bill,
a measure that would promote native ownership of the land in
perpetuity increases economic opportunities and it promotes
cultural heritage. And so, I think it is pretty much in line
with the SASS and I would hope that would be recognized within
the Agency.
Mr. French. Yes, it does. And I think it is aligned with
the Joint Secretarial Order that Secretaries Vilsack and
Haaland put out about the way that we want to work forward with
tribes. I think the testimony was simply--there are times,
Senator, as you know, that the expectations of what we are
asked to deliver off the Tongass, we have not been able to
meet. And in this case, where there will be this large of an
acreage in areas of certain things that were expected from that
plan that we are no longer managing for, we would not be able
to deliver those. Others may try it, but we won't. And I think
that was simply all we were trying to say in the testimony.
Senator Murkowski. Okay, well let's follow up----
Mr. French. Okay.
Senator Murkowski [continuing]. After this and talk about
how we can specify with a little more clarity, some of these
parcels.
Thank you, Madam Chairman. I am over my time.
Senator Cortez Masto. Senator Hoeven.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Director Culver, we talked before about the need for a
common-sense approach in terms of producing more energy for
this country, and obviously, producing more energy is a big
part of addressing the inflation challenge this country has. An
example of that common-sense approach is legislation I put
forward, S. 4227, which is the BLM Mineral Spacing Act.
Essentially, what it says is or provides is that it ends
duplicate permitting, and what we have going on right now for
oil wells, BLM has no surface ownership of the land. They have
no surface ownership of the land. So this is private land. And
then, they have a minority interest in the minerals. So not a
majority, a minority interest in the minerals. So now you have
a situation where somebody owns the land. They own a majority
of the minerals under the land. They want to drill a well and
they are being held up on getting a permit by the BLM when they
have no surface ownership and a minority interest in the
minerals.
So in the State of North Dakota, we permit wells much
faster than the Federal Government. So we might permit a well
in, say, 14 days. They might sit there though, however, for six
months or longer, and maybe not even get a permit, being held
up by the BLM. So this legislation would say you do not have to
do that duplicate in that situation. The state can go ahead and
permit the well. Isn't that the kind of common-sense approach
we are going to need to cut through some of this regulatory
burden if we are going to address our needs for more energy
produced here at home?
Ms. Culver. Thanks for the question, Senator Hoeven.
In terms of the regulatory burden, the BLM has been making
progress on improving our permitting time, and we have issued
quite a few permits in this Administration--about 4,700--since
we started, and over 2,000 of those are in that situation where
it is not federal surface. So I think we are handling the
processing of the permits in a good time frame. We have
developed guidance that helps us tailor these processes in
situations like the ones you are discussing where it is private
surface and it might not be majority federal minerals.
At the same time, it is important to us, and in our role as
the steward of the public lands and managing public minerals,
to ensure that we are complying with potential impacts of these
actions and to take that into account and to ensure that the
Secretary of the Interior, and as a result, the BLM, are
issuing permits in those situations.
Senator Hoeven. Well, you say you are making progress, yet
right now--in this country, we were producing 13 million
barrels of oil a day. We are down to 11 and a half. In my State
of North Dakota, we were at 1.5 million barrels a day. We are
down, last I checked, closer to a million barrels a day. The
price at the pump is $5, on average, across this nation, and
going up. Do you consider that adequate progress in terms of
helping our consumers at the pump?
Ms. Culver. Well, I think from the perspective of the
Bureau of Land Management, the Department of the Interior and
the amount of production that we manage, we are at all-time
highs of production on public lands. So I do think we are doing
our part. We are in a situation where the President has been
encouraging companies to produce--to look at prices. We have
not seen that our production is actually affecting prices right
now, as I am sure you have heard us say, there are more than
9,000 permits available and ready for use for the industry when
they are ready to use them, as well as about 12.5 million acres
of land that already have been in production.
Senator Hoeven. So you think--at a time when the country is
producing less oil and gas, not more, when the price at the
pump, I think, on average, is about $4.85 a gallon, when the
President is going to places like Saudi Arabia and asking for
more oil from Venezuela--that you don't need to take steps to
help produce more energy here at home? That is what you are
telling me?
Ms. Culver. What I am saying is that the Bureau of Land
Management--the Department of the Interior--is supporting
record levels of production on the public lands. We are
processing permits. We have millions of acres that are under
lease that can be produced. So that is what I am saying.
Senator Hoeven. But the whole point is they can't be
produced if they can't get a permit. You have to get a permit
to drill. So you and other members of the Administration say,
oh, well they have leases on federal lands. Yes, but they are
either held up by the court or held up by you and other
agencies because they can't get a permit to drill. So that is
not accurate to say they can produce more. They can't. You say,
well, they have these leases. But if they are held up by the
courts or by your bureaucracy and red tape, they cannot drill,
which is why we are producing less energy in this country and
why the prices are high and going higher, and that hurts every
single consumer. And you are telling me no, you don't need to
do anything different.
Ms. Culver. What I am saying, Senator Hoeven, is that we
are at an all-time high of production from the public mineral
estate. We have 9,000 permits to drill that have been approved,
are in the hands of industry, and we are continuing to provide
more upon request.
Senator Hoeven. Okay then, would you at least agree with me
that they need to get a permit to drill before they can drill,
whether they have a lease or not? Would you agree with that?
Ms. Culver. I would absolutely agree with you, Senator.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
We are going to go to a second round. Just Senator Lee
would like to follow up with some additional questions.
Senator Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Culver, you are here on behalf of President Biden's
Administration testifying in favor of S. 387, the Grand Canyon
Protection Act. Is that correct?
Ms. Culver. Yes, that is correct.
Senator Lee. Are you aware that this bill would prohibit
the extraction of the nation's most concentrated uranium
deposits? In fact, it is a place where we have one-third of all
developable uranium in the United States.
Ms. Culver. Yes, I am aware that it would continue the
existing withdrawal of resources----
Senator Lee. One-third, one-third of all developable
uranium in the United States.
Are you aware that domestic uranium production is at its
lowest point since 1949?
Ms. Culver. I am not going to argue with you about that,
Senator.
Senator Lee. Are you aware that, according to the EIA, the
U.S. currently imports at least 56 percent of its uranium that
is used for power generation of the United States from Russia
or from Russian-affiliated countries?
Ms. Culver. I am not personally aware of every statistic,
but I would----
Senator Lee. It is.
Ms. Culver [continuing]. Trust you to tell me the correct
statistics, sir.
Senator Lee. Great.
Would you agree with me that that level of reliance on
Russian-or Russian-affiliated product would appear to pose a
potential national security risk to the United States?
Ms. Culver. So what I have seen is President Biden's
Executive Order on ensuring that we do have security in our
supply and the actions that we can take now to improve our
supply and its reliance.
Senator Lee. Right, right. Seems to me to be a separate
question from whether that is a--seems to be not a great idea
if you are talking about taking one-third of the nation's
developable domestic uranium supply and taking it off the
table, but we will set that aside for a moment.
So yes or no--would you agree or disagree with me that the
bill would reinforce America's reliance on Russian uranium?
Ms. Culver. I don't think I can agree or disagree with that
because I don't think I have the information. I know the bill
requires an assessment of stockpiles and what is available.
Senator Lee. Okay, yes, I get that. Let me make this easier
for you then. Will this bill help at all to strengthen our
domestic uranium supply chain? Does it do anything to
strengthen that?
Ms. Culver. The bill is not focused on strengthening the
uranium supply chain.
Senator Lee. Okay. So, given the current prices of energy
and the fact that this bill will hurt our efforts to become
more energy independent, would you like to amend or withdraw
the Administration's support for this legislation?
Ms. Culver. I think when we look at energy independence, we
are looking at a number of factors, and the Administration is
looking at, for instance, supporting a transition to clean
energy and looking at how we can better support domestic
energy. So----
Senator Lee. Sure, but in the short term, we are talking
about 20 percent of our electricity that comes from nuclear
power and we are talking about 56 percent of our uranium fuel
that is used for electric power generation coming from Russia
or Russian-affiliated countries. That seems to not be moving
very much in that direction. What do we do in the meantime?
So I am deeply concerned about this. I do think this makes
us unsafe. I think it presents grave national security threats.
And I also think you are understating the significance of the
national security issue.
I would like to enter into the record a letter from both
Mohave County, Arizona and Kane County, Utah opposing this
legislation.
Senator Cortez Masto. Without objection.
[The letter referred to follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Lee. Regarding S. 3129, the M.H. Dutch Salmon
Greater Gila Wild and Scenic River Act, this bill would
designate 446.38 miles of ``river'' as wild and scenic.
Ms. Culver, S. 3129 allows for the continued maintenance of
water distribution infrastructure. Is it typical of rivers that
are designated as wild and scenic to contain water
infrastructure?
Ms. Culver. I don't know that I could speak to how typical
it is. I can tell you that they are all designated based on
their own outstandingly remarkable river values.
Senator Lee. Madam Chair, I would like to enter into the
record a letter from the Catron County Commission of New Mexico
expressing the concerns about their opposition to that bill.
Senator Cortez Masto. Without objection.
[The letter referred to follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Lee. The letter reads in part, ``Many of the river
sections listed are dry river beds the majority of the year and
simply do not constitute or meet inclusion into the Wild and
Scenic River System.''
The letter also states that, ``over 4,000 local New
Mexicans and 13 local governmental agencies have expressed
numerous concerns with this legislation.''
I would also like to enter into the record a letter from
the Commissioners of Hidalgo County, New Mexico expressing
opposition to the bill.
Senator Cortez Masto. Without objection.
[The letter referred to follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Lee. The letter reads in part, ``The legislation
fails to protect water and property rights along 450 miles of
river segments. Private lands would suddenly have the Secretary
of Agriculture and/or Interior as the new water master.''
Finally, I would like to ask that some more letters from
Grant County, New Mexico, the Sierra County Commission, the
Heritage Waters Coalition, the San Francisco Soil and Water
Conservation District, and 40 letters from concerned New
Mexicans be entered into the record.
Senator Cortez Masto. Without objection.
Senator Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair.
[The letters referred to follow:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. That is the end of the
questioning from the Senators. I would like to thank all the
witnesses for joining us, whether you are virtual or here in
person, and thank you for the testimony for this afternoon.
Some members of the Committee may submit additional
questions in writing, and if so, we will ask our witnesses to
submit answers for the record. Committee members will have
until 6:00 p.m. tomorrow to submit additional questions for the
record. We will keep the hearing record open for two weeks to
receive any additional comments.
Thank you, all, again. The Subcommittee is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 4:43 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
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Defenders of Wildlife Statement, Attachment A
[The report referred to in the Defenders of Wildlife statement
as Attachment A, ``A Study of Five Southeast Alaska
Communities,'' prepared by the Institute of Social and Economic
Research at the University of Alaska Anchorage in February of
1994, is also attached to another organization's statement
within this hearing record. To avoid duplication, the report
appears once, on pages 901-1023 of this document.]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
[all]