[Senate Hearing 117-299]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-299
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR
THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
FOR FISCAL YEAR 2023
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
MAY 19, 2022
__________
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
47-961 PDF WASHINGTON : 2024
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COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
Renae Black, Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
David Brooks, General Counsel
Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
John Tanner, Republican Deputy Staff Director for Lands
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West
Virginia....................................................... 1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
Wyoming........................................................ 5
WITNESS
Haaland, Hon. Deb, Secretary, U.S. Department of the Interior.... 7
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Barrasso, Hon. John:
Opening Statement............................................ 5
Chart entitled ``Flaring Intensity of Oil Production: 2021''. 69
Cantwell, Hon. Maria:
Chart entitled ``Significant Wildland Fire Potentital
Outlook, August 2022''..................................... 41
U.S. Drought Monitor map of the State Washington, May 10,
2022....................................................... 43
Cassidy, Hon. Bill:
Chart depicting Administration actions relating to U.S.
energy..................................................... 46
Letter from the Governors of Alaska, Mississippi, Louisiana,
Alabama, and Texas addressed to President Biden, dated
April 20, 2022............................................. 48
Chart depicting U.S. requests to other countries to increase
oil production............................................. 51
Haaland, Hon. Deb:
Opening Statement............................................ 7
Written Testimony............................................ 9
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 77
Hyde-Smith, Hon. Cindy:
Chart entitled ``GOM Production Is on the Decline"........... 59
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
U.S. Department of the Interior News release entitled
``Secretary Haaland Provides Updates on Offshore Leasing
Program During Senate Testimony''.......................... 36
Outdoor Alliance:
Statement for the Record..................................... 143
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
FOR FISCAL YEAR 2023
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THURSDAY, MAY 19, 2022
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m. in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin
III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA
The Chairman. The Committee will come to order.
This morning the Committee will review the President's
proposed budget for the Department of the Interior. I would
like to welcome Secretary Haaland and Deputy Secretary
Beaudreau back to the Committee as well as DOI Budget Director
Denise Flanagan. Thank you all for being here.
The President's Fiscal Year 2023 budget proposes just over
$18 billion for the Department of the Interior. That is an
increase of $1.9 billion, or almost 11 percent over the current
appropriated level. On a positive note, the budget includes
significant funding increases for most DOI Bureaus and an
almost an eight-percent increase in staffing levels, which is a
much-needed restoration from the previous cuts. The budget also
includes full implementation of agency deferred maintenance and
LWCF funding from the Great American Outdoors Act. But we are
holding this hearing during trying times--Putin's horrific
invasion of Ukraine, Russia's weaponization of oil and gas,
increasing energy and food prices worldwide, and the growing
challenge of competition with China. Given the current global
situation, it is essential for the United States to step up to
the plate as the superpower of the world that we are and the
world counts on us to be. That includes the responsible
development of our abundant energy and mineral resources.
Unfortunately, even as we see Russia wage a war enabled by
energy insecurity in Europe, this Administration has made its
opposition to domestic oil and gas production crystal clear on
and off federal lands and waters. Secretary Haaland, when you
were before the Committee early last year, I told you that I
supported the Administration taking a brief pause to review the
oil and gas program before resuming lease sales. A few months
later, that July, while you were here during last year's budget
hearing, I made it clear that the time for a pause had come and
gone. But almost a year and a half into this Administration,
and as the world begs for North American oil and gas, we still
have no new leases. While Interior held one offshore lease sale
in the fall because of a court order, those sales were
subsequently vacated by another court, and the Administration,
for some reason, declined to appeal or defend them. Onshore
lease sales have finally been scheduled for this June, albeit
with only 20 percent of the nominated land made available, and
alongside a royalty rate increase to 18.75 percent. But again,
even this action is only because of a court order to comply
with the requirements of the law, which requires quarterly
lease sales. And the President's press secretary quickly
clarified that ``the President's policy was to ban additional
leasing.''
I am sorry to say it has become crystal clear that the
pause is, in fact, a ban. Making good on that ban, a week ago
today, the Interior Department announced it would not be
holding the three remaining offshore lease sales that could be
held under the current five-year program. As you know, Senator
Kelly and I wrote to the President urging him to develop and
implement the next five-year program without delay. We pointed
out that the Gulf of Mexico producers are among the cleanest in
the world and would offset foreign imports shipped across
oceans. Unfortunately, we have no reason to believe that a new
five-year offshore leasing program will be completed on time
this summer, as is required by law, or that if and when it is
completed, it will actually provide any lease sales at all. If
that is the case, this would be the first time in history that
the replacement plan was not published on time.
Now, the Administration continues to say that there are
9,000 permits sitting unused, and that is why we do not need to
do any more leasing onshore or offshore. So let us talk about
this magic number of 9,000. First, this is the number of
onshore drilling permits. And I repeat--onshore drilling
permits. That is a distinction that is not being made, and an
important one when you realize it is also being used as an
argument against the offshore leasing. Second, now focusing on
onshore, lease holders pay to apply for this permit months, if
not longer, in advance due to the arduous review process; and
there might be more you need to do once you finally get the
permit, before you can drill. Third, while it is true that the
number of drilling permits is slightly higher than normal, it
is not true that they are sitting unused. Planning, scheduling
a drill rig, finding labor and materials--these all take time,
which is why the permits are valid for two years and can be
extended for good cause. And this makes sense according to the
Bureau of Land Management, because over 7,000 of these permits
were extended past their initial two-year term. Now that oil
prices are high, we are quick to forget that there were
unprecedented negative oil prices in April of 2020 and during
the COVID pandemic. So it is not surprising the companies asked
for permit extensions and the BLM granted them.
Now, I am not naive to how business operates. Oil and gas
companies can get these leases and hold on to them at such a
low rental rate compared to state and private land, that it
also makes sense to have them on their books for inventory,
even if the plan is not necessarily to develop them at all. We
make it too easy. That has been the problem. That is what we
thought your report on the leasing program would be--we would
get something back from you all that would show how we could
correct that. Let me be clear--I agree that federal lease terms
should be competitive with the state and private markets and we
should not be making our public lands a bargain basement deal.
I also believe that we ought to streamline our permitting
process so it is more comparable to state and private land. We
are at 12.5 percent. They are at 16.67 percent. They are
willing to pay the 16.67 percent because of the time element
involved. But if the Administration's argument is that industry
is to blame for sitting on these leases and permits, then why
don't they do something about it? Why don't they make the
changes?
The fact is, the Department of the Interior already has the
authority to adjust royalties to be competitive, address
venting and flaring, fix bonding rates, and raise rental rates
to encourage production. So, for example, if the concern is
that too many leases are not being developed in a timely
manner, the Department could increase the rental rates over
time to provide a financial disincentive--a disincentive--
against holding leases for speculation alone. You don't need
legislation or new authority to do this. You have the ability
to do it, and we have been looking for your plan. $1.50 an acre
for the first five years and $2 an acre thereafter--that is a
sweetheart deal that does not give the needed push to develop.
Instead, the BLM-scheduled lease sale in June simply raises the
royalty rate to 18.75--which is a penalty on onshore
production, and further than I would have gone. I have said
that leaving rental rates alone doesn't discourage sitting on a
lease, but the change to the royalty, on its own,
disincentivized pursuing federal leases at all.
Elsewhere, the Administration has not been shy about
rulemaking that has chilled investment in the oil and gas
sector. So I do not understand why they have not made these
common-sense changes which we have talked about. So let me
throw out one other fact that we haven't heard from the
Administration. The percentage of onshore leases in production
is the highest it has ever been in the past 20 years. Leasing
is part of the cycle of development. Announcements that new
leasing is not in line with the President's policy, while at
the same time taking concrete steps to block or severely limit
new leasing, have a chilling effect. And yes, new lease sales
would not immediately increase production, but the
Administration's short-sighted approach that only focuses on
current production puts America's energy security at risk. The
fact is, the federal leases onshore and offshore are producing
domestic oil and gas, paying royalties, and increasing our
energy security in a way that is so much cleaner than what
Russia put into the market, what Iran puts into the market, and
what Venezuela has ever put into the market. My frustration is
at an all-time high that we are talking to OPEC, Iran, and
Venezuela to increase oil output while we are at the same time
blocking increased energy production at home. It makes no sense
at all.
Just yesterday, the Administration began the process of
easing sanctions on Venezuela. If you can believe this--they
are easing the basic sanctions that have kept Venezuela at bay
by allowing Chevron to begin negotiations with the Venezuelan
state-owned oil company about future activity. Now, I guarantee
you, it won't be clean. While I understand that does not give
the green light yet to go beyond talks, it is a clear step in
that direction and shows the intent of what they want they do.
What does this say to producers here in the United States when
we consider working with the Venezuelan government, which
certainly doesn't share our values, instead of supporting
domestic or North American production? Is this really in our
best interest? The best we can do? In that, the best interest
of the free world is at stake.
I believe that we have two critical goals addressing
climate change and energy security. Actions like these do not
get us any closer to either of those goals. From a methane
emissions standpoint, Venezuelan oil is among the dirtiest
anywhere in the world. Putin's war on Ukraine must serve as a
permanent wake-up call to the international community that we
cannot rely upon nations like Russia, Iran, Venezuela, or China
for U.S. or our allies' energy security. The only way that we
will be able to guarantee our energy security, which will also
allow us to develop the technology to meet our climate goals,
is to rely on ourselves and our proven partners around the
globe. Along the same lines, I look ahead to the energy
transition, and am concerned about our nation's supply of
critical minerals, where the Department plays an enormous role
through the U.S. Geological Survey and the Bureau of Land
Management. Unlike oil and gas, the Administration has shown
interest in reducing the reliance on China and other countries
for key minerals. However, these early steps require follow-
through.
Earlier this week, Senator Murkowski and myself raised
concerns about critical mineral deadlines from the Energy Act
that multiple agencies, including Interior, have not met. These
reports are the relatively easy part, particularly compared to
permitting a new mining operation. While domestic mining is
only a partial solution to our critical mineral challenges,
make no mistake, we need to increase domestic critical mineral
production and processing or we are going to regret it one day
because Xi Jinping is taking note of what Putin is doing. That
is even more important with the Administration so focused on
electric vehicles, which will exponentially increase our demand
for nickel, lithium, cobalt, copper, and graphite. The reality
is that if we are serious about both climate and security, at
some point in the very near future, new critical mineral mines
will need to open on federal land, and we will need to onshore
processing refining, manufacturing, and recycling. Given my
experience with the so-called leasing pause and the missed
Energy Act deadlines, I must admit that I am skeptical that
this Administration will ultimately support the development of
these types of critical mineral projects in the United States
of America.
Given my experience with the so-called leasing pause and
the missed Energy Act deadlines, I must admit, again, that I am
concerned. I hope, for the sake of our country, that I am
proven wrong.
Now I will recognize Senator Barrasso, for his opening
statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks so much, Mr. Chairman, for
your very strong and compelling statement about the needs for
affordable energy on the day that gas prices continue to hit
highs across the country. American consumers are suffering
significantly. The Administration does not seem to care very
much about what the impact is on American families who are
trying to buy gasoline and at the same time buy groceries and
at the same time send kids to school and buy clothing and maybe
are considering something they would like to do for the summer.
But with the gasoline prices, as a result of the
Administration's activities, and specifically, the Department
of the Interior's activities, it is very challenging for
American families, which is no surprise then that under this
Administration, three out of four Americans think this country
is heading in the wrong direction. So I am very happy that you
are holding this hearing today and very happy for the very
strong statement that you have had, Mr. Chairman, much more
reflective of the needs of the American people than of the
needs and demands of the climate elitists of this country who
are running this Administration.
I do want to thank the Secretary for being here to testify
today. The Department of the Interior is the steward for 20
percent of America's lands and much of America's waters. And
most of this land that they are stewards of is in the West. In
Wyoming, half of our land is owned by the Federal Government.
This includes Indian reservations, wildlife refuges, national
parks, national recreation areas, and the vast Bureau of Land
Management holdings. In Wyoming, we are very proud of our
national parks, and all of our parks. You know, each year we
host millions of visitors. They come to enjoy the spectacular
views and iconic wildlife of the Grand Tetons and of
Yellowstone National Park. This year is a landmark for Wyoming
and the Park Service as we celebrate the 150th anniversary of
Yellowstone.
The Department also manages water, fights wildfires,
oversees grazing, and it facilitates outdoor recreation. The
West is confronting a historic drought. With reservoirs drying
up, it concerns me that the Bureau of Reclamation was the only
Bureau at the Interior Department that was actually cut in the
budget request this year. The Department needs to prioritize
our rural ranching and farming communities. Without water to
grow the crops and raise the cattle, these communities would
not exist, and the food needs of the American people would be
even more dire and more expensive.
The Department also oversees much of America's energy
reserves. No department plays a more critical role in either
enabling or undermining--because it is an either/or here--
enabling or undermining American energy production. It seems
today that this Department is undermining American energy
production. With inflation at a 40-year high and energy prices
skyrocketing, the job as Secretary of Interior is pivotal.
During the last year, gas prices have repeatedly hit new
records, forcing American families to spend more on filling
their tanks. Every day I hear from Wyoming families worried
about making ends meet because of skyrocketing energy costs.
And I don't know if you saw a prediction this morning, Mr.
Chairman, they are talking now of $6 a gallon for gasoline this
summer, later in the summer, all across the United States.
There is no place you can go where it is less than $4 a gallon.
During this energy crisis, when the Department could be
opening up abundant American oil and gas reserves, the
Department of the Interior has done everything possible to shut
them down. The President says he wants his Administration to
encourage more American energy. Instead, your Department, Madam
Secretary, stalls, postpones, and kills oil and natural gas
lease sales. Your Department is undermining domestic energy
production, not expediting it. The results are apparent. Since
President Biden took office, Americans have become much more
dependent on foreign sources of energy. Meanwhile, the same
Administration has spent much of its time begging our
adversaries to produce more oil. You said it right, Mr.
Chairman--well before the war in Ukraine, the Administration--
and the President, directly--was even begging Russia for more
oil. They even put it on the White House website. Not just oil.
It is natural gas. It is coal. We have plentiful minerals in
this country. We need to find ways to increase, not decrease
production of our nation's most abundant natural resources.
It was not long ago that the shale revolution helped make
our nation not just energy-independent, but energy-dominant.
America was uniquely positioned to help our allies free
themselves from the yoke of Russian energy. Sadly, this
Administration has brought us to a counter-revolution, complete
with higher prices and a weaker economy. Not what a president
should be proud of, and the American people's polling shows
that the American people are very disturbed by what this
Administration is doing. Now is the time to reverse course. I
hope we can begin to identify areas where we can work together
to make American energy dominant again. By working to restore
American energy dominance, this Department of the Interior
could play a vital role in reducing the economic distress that
has been caused by this Administration on millions and millions
of Americans. I hope that you and the Administration will seize
the moment and reverse your destructive course. And it is self-
destructive.
Members of the Committee are also concerned with your
Department's failure to respect Senate oversight
responsibilities. You promised that this would not happen, but
it has. It was only two weeks ago that we finally received
responses to questions for the record from last year's budget
hearings. Last year's hearings, we received answers to two
weeks ago. A pattern has become very clear in this
Administration and this Department, specifically. After
delaying and obstructing and outright ignoring this Committee,
Mr. Chairman, the responses failed to provide answers to the
questions that were posed to you. Madam Secretary, this too
needs to change. So I look forward to your testimony. Thank you
for joining us today.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Now we are going to turn to Secretary Haaland for her
statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DEB HAALAND, SECRETARY,
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
Secretary Haaland. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member
Barrasso, and members of the Committee, it is an honor and
privilege to be here on the ancestral homelands of the
Anacostan and Piscataway people to speak with you today on
behalf of the President's 2023 budget for the Department of the
Interior.
I have had the honor of being the Secretary of the Interior
for over a year now, and I recognize the importance of this
moment for the future of the Department and our country.
Through my travels and while working here in Washington, DC, I
have seen firsthand how every day in every corner of the
country, our employees go to work with a focus on results. They
work with their local communities, states, tribal nations, and
other partners to conserve and steward our nation's natural
resources and cultural heritage for the benefit of everyone.
Interior's programs are helping generate jobs, grow the
economy, and build resilience to the challenges of our changing
climate. I am grateful that over the past year, I have been
able to visit many of your states and to meet the great people
that you represent, and it is my hope that these visits will
continue in the future. The work we do would not be possible
without your leadership and support, and I look forward to
continued collaboration on so many of these important issues.
Before we turn our attention to the budget, I have gotten a
lot of questions about the Outer Continental Shelf five-year
planning process, so I want to talk about that up front. The
previous Administration had stopped work in 2018 on the new
five-year plan, so there has been a lot to do to catch up on
this. Varying conflicting litigation has also been a factor.
But of course, as I stated previously, BOEM is moving forward
expeditiously and the Department will release the proposed
program, which is the next step in the five-year planning
process, by June 30th, which is the expiration of the current
program. As we take this next step, we will follow the science
and the law, as we always do. This requires a robust and
transparent review process that includes input from the public,
states, and tribes to inform our decision-making. We take this
responsibility seriously, and are not pre-judging an outcome. I
welcome your continued interest and inquiries, and my team will
follow up next month with details of a proposed plan. Working
together, we have the ability to make tangible differences in
the lives of families across the country.
I am proud that we have made great progress in the last
year. We took steps to accelerate the development of renewable
energy on public lands and waters, launched a federal boarding
school initiative to address the intergenerational impact of
Indian boarding school policy, deployed resources to build
resilience to address the drought crisis, pursued justice for
missing and murdered indigenous people, and worked to keep
tribal communities safe, and we helped communities prepare
against the threat of wildland fire by strengthening our
federal firefighting workforce and the resilience of our lands.
We also began implementing the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law--
once in a generation investments that will help communities
tackle the climate crisis while creating jobs, advancing
environmental justice, and boosting local economies. This
funding is already at work at Interior, kick-starting ongoing
efforts to address intensifying drought, wildfires, flooding,
and legacy pollution.
The President's 2023 budget complements this with a request
of $18.1 billion for the Interior Department. Our total request
is a 12 percent increase from the 2022 enacted appropriation.
Specifically, the President's budget invests in our country
with an unprecedented total of $4.5 billion for Indian affairs
programs focused on tribal sovereignty and stronger tribal
communities. Up to $1.5 billion for wildland fire management to
increase firefighting capacity, continue the transformation to
a more permanent and professional wildland fire workforce, and
ensure federal firefighters are paid at least $15 an hour.
Complementing the transformative investment of the Bipartisan
Infrastructure Law, the 2023 budget includes $1.4 billion for
Reclamation programs and projects; a total of $4.9 billion
across Interior to strengthen natural resource management and
improve the resilience of tribal and Interior-managed lands;
$125 million to advance the President's ambitious clean energy
goals by increasing offshore wind energy power generation and
permitting of onshore renewable energy technologies; more than
$1.4 billion for research and development programs across the
Department to ensure science continues to underpin Interior's
core mission activities, and implementation of our Department
wide diversity, equity inclusion, and accessibility initiative
to proactively advance equity, civil rights, racial justice and
equal opportunity. I have great ambitions for the Department of
the Interior and what we can accomplish on behalf of the
American people. Working together, we can do more to create
good-paying, union jobs, increase the resilience of our lands,
expand our ability to fight wildland fires, and mitigate
drought, strengthen tribal nations, and improve the lives of
Americans everywhere.
In conclusion, we are doing our part to advance priorities
that build a better America. Thank you again for having me, my
colleague, Deputy Secretary Tommy Beaudreau, and our Budget
Director, Denise Flanagan. We are all happy to be here with you
and we are happy to answer any questions that you have.
[The prepared statement of Secretary Haaland follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Secretary.
And I am going to turn now to Senator Wyden, who has to
leave immediately and attend a hearing in Finance to try to
make sure that our children have formula.
Senator Wyden. Not a hearing, but it is hectic. And Mr.
Chairman, thank you very much for the courtesy, and Senator
Barrasso.
Just a word on this energy debate and then I am going to go
to forestry, and a number of colleagues have heard this. I will
say, colleagues, I think there is a path out of the traditional
gridlock with respect to energy policy. And a number of you
know about this because it was actually birthed here in the
Energy Committee, and it is premised on technological
neutrality--market oriented, private-sector incentives for
reducing carbon. And I would just note this morning,
colleagues, the Chamber of Commerce wrote everybody to say they
liked technological neutrality. Environmental folks like
technological neutrality. And I just wanted to spend a quick
minute--and I so appreciate the courtesy of our Chair--to say
it seems to me all of our committees--all of our committees--
and I see my friend Senator Murkowski, because she was around
when we birthed this idea of technological neutrality with
respect to energy and getting government out of the business.
And so, I just wanted to say a quick word as we all work
together on this issue.
Madam Secretary, great to see you. As you know, the West
right now--I see my friend, Senator Heinrich here--we are
consumed by the prospect of another very difficult summer
getting hammered by fire. We know these fires today, they are
not your grandfather's fires. They are bigger. They are hotter.
They are more powerful. They leap over rivers. And we are
getting whole towns whacked. So, what I would like to start
with, as you know, we were able to secure a significant amount
of funding for wildfire management in the infrastructure bill--
$5 billion. Our rural communities are looking at this as a
lifeline. And I think it would be very helpful if you could
start in and talk, for example, about how this money can be
used and when it could be used for targeted thinning for
prescribed fire, for fuels treatment. If you could just walk us
through a bit about your plans to use that money to help the
West, because I will tell you, everything we are seeing, Madam
Secretary, another very, very ominous fire season. Please.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator, and certainly, I
understand what you are saying. New Mexico is facing, already,
a really terrible fire year. It is devastating. It is
heartbreaking. Friends of ours are having to evacuate. We
understand that completely. And I am sorry. Unfortunately,
there is a terrible drought, as you know, in the West. We are
very grateful for the overall investments for the Bipartisan
Infrastructure Law, close to $1.5 billion over five years. That
will work on fuels management and rehabilitation. I also want
to say, up front, that I am very proud to have a very strong
working relationship with Secretary Vilsack and the team in the
Forest Service to make sure that we are working together to do
all we can.
We need to make sure that we have the boots on the ground
in those areas. One of the things that we are addressing, and I
mentioned it in my opening remarks, we are working to make sure
that firefighters make at least $15 an hour, moving some of the
seasonal jobs into full-time jobs. And so, all of those
things--the equipment, the people, the fuels management in
those areas, it is all important to us. And we are working
together to make sure that that happens.
Senator Wyden. One other question, if I might, Madam
Secretary, and I especially appreciate the extra pay for
firefighters. We have known this has been so outrageous over
the years to see these folks not getting paid even anything
resembling a fair wage. So I really appreciate that.
Now, I have been home. I have been having Town Hall
meetings across rural Oregon and I am still hearing from a lot
of folks on the ground, the local agencies, that they really
have not gotten the information they need with respect to how
the Federal Government is going to work with them with respect
to wildfire response. Do you have plans that you could give us?
And, you know, since I was chair of the Committee, I remember
how we used to do it. It goes to Senator Manchin, Senator
Barrasso, and the like. Do you have plans that you could get us
so that we could get them out to our local agencies? Because I
am still getting a lot of questions on that, and maybe you
could even describe it. I am almost out of time, but please.
Secretary Haaland. Senator, We are more than happy to give
you as many details as you would like. Our staff will
absolutely----
Senator Wyden. Good.
Secretary Haaland [continuing]. Reach out to your staff,
and if there are specific questions about specific numbers of
acreage and funding and so forth, we can put all of those
things together and make sure that you have the answers for
your constituents.
Senator Wyden. Whatever you have in writing would be great.
We look forward to it. You have always been responsive. I
remember working with you in the House. Thank you very much.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Wyden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, sir.
Senator Barrasso.
Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks, Mr. Chairman.
And first to Senator Wyden, as he is ready to leave, I did
note that the people of Oregon gave you a 90 percent victory in
the primary. So, clearly your meetings and touring around the
state and traveling, people are listening to you and you listen
to them.
Senator Wyden. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso. Madam Secretary, the President has
repeatedly claimed to be doing ``everything'' he could do to
lower record-high gasoline and energy prices. On April 15th,
your Department announced it was finally complying with a
federal court order to hold onshore oil and gas leases. You
then reduced the parcels offered by 80 percent. Then, you
increased the royalty on production by 50 percent. So, you get
less, you pay more. It seems like it is Secretary Haaland's
price hike here, not Putin's. Please explain how your price
hike on American energy production is going to help lower
gasoline and home energy prices.
Secretary Haaland. Ranking Member, thank you so much for
the question. With respect to current energy, new drilling has
been up. They began drilling nearly 1,900 new oil and gas wells
in 2021 alone. We have issued and approved more than 4,700
drilling permits since January 2021--1,100 in 2022 alone. We
have worked to do our jobs. We are following the science. We
are following the law. With respect to some of the reforms that
we made, I take my job very seriously. It is my job to manage
and conserve all of our public lands for every single American.
Those are things that are all taken into consideration
considering the climate crisis that we are in. We felt that
implementing several reforms, such as issuing leases where
current infrastructure exists, for example, would move our
country forward with respect to making sure we are conserving
the land and also doing our jobs to produce energy.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Madam Secretary.
You and I both know that taxpayers get absolutely zero
return when we keep American energy in the ground and we turn
to Venezuela or Iran or others. Madam Secretary, a close review
of the parcels that were offered in my home State of Wyoming
shows that you are only offering parcels that are likely to
have little interest. For example, the parcels are not near
existing infrastructure. Why are we not offering--and you
offering--the most attractive parcels?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I would be happy to look into
that. We speak to people on the ground. We have an idea of
where those leases should happen. It is, I mean, there is a
science behind it. If you would like, we would be happy to
follow-up with you on any specific parcels that you are
referring to.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Madam Secretary, that would be
very helpful because the producers in Wyoming are telling me
that the best parcels have been taken off the table, and if you
actually wanted to produce more American energy, you wouldn't
take the best leasing options off the table.
I wanted to move on to what you announced this morning. You
announced that the Department will release a proposed five-year
plan on offshore oil and gas leases. You are way behind
schedule, and have not provided any details on the plan. Two
weeks ago, the Senate voted to support my motion to finalize a
new five-year plan by June 2022. Well, that is coming up in
about six weeks. My motion requires the new plan to include
robust leasing with at least ten region-wide lease sales off of
Alaska and in the Gulf of Mexico, with a minimum of two sales
per calendar year. Now, a large majority of this Committee--
both sides of the aisle--voted for it and it passed the Senate.
Will you finalize a new five-year plan by this date that
the Senate, in a bipartisan way, is recommending that includes
at least ten region-wide sales off of Alaska and the Gulf of
Mexico with at least two sales per year?
Secretary Haaland. Ranking Member, as I mentioned in my
opening remarks, we are working on the process and we have been
working on that process. The process was stopped in 2018, as I
mentioned, so there was a lot to catch up on. I will be happy
to--we will run a transparent process. We will do what is
required through the law and we are happy to keep you updated
as to the progress that we are making on the five-year plan.
Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you, because, Mr. Chairman,
the Administration cannot have it both ways. The Administration
cannot pretend to support oil and gas production while doing
everything in their power to slow down and block expanded
production on public lands.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. And I will go to my
questions next, if you don't mind.
I would like to ask the same thing to follow up. Onshore
and offshore, all we are asking for--can you commit to doing
the leasing? I know you are going to do the plan. What we are
committed to is the leasing that goes with it because there is
no guarantee that is going to happen on either onshore or
offshore. And if you cannot answer, I understand where I have
to get the answer from. If you can, is your intent to lease?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Chairman.
Our intent is to follow the law. We know that this five-
year plan is in the works right now. I could not tell you if I
tried what is in it at the moment.
The Chairman. Let me just, if I can, I am so sorry to
interrupt you, but never before has there not been a lease when
the plan was put forward. It was put forward with the intent to
lease and it was followed up with leasing. You seem to be
hesitant. And I understand. I am not trying to put you in a
tough spot. I just want to know--is the Administration's intent
to lease, unless you are stopped from leasing?
Secretary Haaland. Chairman, we have continued to lease,
and I won't mention the permits because I know that is not
something you want to hear, but the truth be told, right now,
currently, onshore there are more than 12 million acres under
lease, offshore more than eight million acres under lease. It
is clear that we are leasing.
The Chairman. Well, those have been previous, but the
bottom line is that you have the ability to make some of the
changes if we recommend it. There are practical changes that
should have been made by now. You don't need us. You can look
and review it. And if we think you are out of bounds then we
will pull you back in, but we think that, basically, there
needs to be adjustment--a lease program. The private sector
understands it. All the leases they are holding, they should
not be holding, but they will if they are as cheap as they are.
So there are a lot of adjustments that can be made. We are not
making any attempt. I am not going to belabor this anymore.
What I am going to do is this. My good friend here from New
Mexico, Senator Heinrich, has shown me the fires they are
dealing with in New Mexico and all over the West. Those of us
on the East Coast do not really understand. So I started asking
questions to the people within the timber industry. And I found
out that on private lands local citizens can act as good
Samaritans and put it out before it gets out of control. If it
happens on federal land, they are not able to do this. That
does not make any sense to me. I have talked to people who
basically had contracts for cutting timber. Lightning strikes,
and they saw a fire start, but they could not act quick enough
to put it out. They had to call the Federal Government and by
the time you got there, you have a raging, out-of-control fire.
I never knew this, Senator. And this is something new to me and
it does not make any sense.
I am sure that none of us intended for that to happen, but
they are telling me that they cannot go on, as a Good
Samaritan, on federal lands. Is that what you understand? Is
that--anybody?
Secretary Haaland. Chairman, I am very, very happy to look
into this for you. I know that----
The Chairman. It doesn't make sense, does it?
Secretary Haaland [continuing]. I appreciate your concern
and I will absolutely----
The Chairman. Well, I am sure my Senators here from the
West--do you want to say something to that?
Senator Cantwell. Well, I was walking in, sorry but I would
say that, you know, my communities after a severe fire, you
know, several years ago, I mean, we have had them every year,
but after the loss of four firefighters, I think people really
do believe that the community can be involved in what we termed
``hasty response.'' And hasty response is an integrated system
of local county officials and people working together to jump
on unique changes in our climates driving much warmer
temperatures. And my colleague, Senator Risch, I do not see him
here this morning, but he has the incident response command in
Idaho. So you can go and visit that. And they will tell you,
they will show you the mapping.
With these dry conditions, fires start much easier and so
we have to create a system that now responds to that because of
the escalation. So if everything is a lot drier, and you have
the ability to have many, many more fire starts, having hasty
response. And so, we have done some work on this, but Mr.
Chairman, we could always do more.
The Chairman. Okay. Let me just say this, if I may. I was
talking to one of the larger companies that do timbering on
federal lands. They are out in the Hither Lands, okay? And
there is no quick response. And he told me they saw a lightning
strike, they saw the fire start, and they had to call it in. It
did not make sense to me at all. Is there a prohibition? And if
there is not, then they misled me. If there is, we have to
change that because these are professional timber people. It is
to their best interest to stop the fire before it goes out of
control. So I am just asking that question. I know we have
taken a long time.
I have another question I wanted to ask.
Secretary Haaland Chairman, if I could just say very
quickly----
The Chairman. Sure.
Secretary Haaland [continuing]. That we work consistently
with states, tribes, and local communities to make sure that
this is a coordinated effort, and we know how important and
dire the situation is.
The Chairman. I just have one more question on that and I
will turn to my fellow colleagues.
I have heard so much about the flaring that goes on on
public lands. I know on private lands they do everything they
can to capture it because it is a valued asset. It is a valued
product they sell. And some are saying, why in the world would
they be flaring? Why are they doing this? And I am told that
they cannot get a permit for a pipeline to take the methane
off. So my question would be, has the Department taken any
steps to reduce venting and flaring on our public lands by
expediting the process of getting a permit for a pipeline to
take that dangerous and harmful methane off into the market
that needs it?
Secretary Haaland. Chairman, thank you so much. I--yes, we
all need to reduce the methane waste----
The Chairman. But it happens because----
Secretary Haaland. Yes, and it causes a lot of health
problems as well. So, I understand that.
We are continuing to issue permits for gathering lines, and
Congress has provided additional authority in the Bipartisan
Infrastructure Law, and we will move that forward as we can,
and I appreciate that being a priority.
The Chairman. I am going to go back to firefighting right
now because we have had some horrific events, you know, we had
a firefighter take their life. Just very quickly, we put
additional funding in the the Bipartisan Infrastructure bill.
Have you started using that funding to try to address the
mental illness problems that we are concerned about with these
brave firefighters?
Secretary Haaland. That is a priority for us, Chairman. I
could not tell you whether that funding is in the works----
The Chairman. Could you please check that and get back to
us as quickly as possible?
Secretary Haaland [continuing]. At the moment, but we are
working. We are working on that and we agree with you that is
something that absolutely is a priority for our Department.
The Chairman. Senator Daines.
Thank you.
Senator Daines. Chairman Manchin, thank you.
Secretary Haaland, I want to first thank you for beginning
the process in releasing the initial investigative report of
the tragic history of federal Indian boarding school policies.
It is an extremely important issue to me and our Montana tribes
and I look forward to working with you on this issue going
forward. So thank you.
Under the Endangered Species Act, the Secretary of Interior
has 90 days to respond to petitions to list or delist a
species. It has been nearly 150 days since Montana Governor
Greg Gianforte filed a petition to delist the Northern
Continental Divide Ecosystem Population of the Grizzly Bear,
and almost 130 days since Governor Gordon of Wyoming filed a
petition for the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. During your
confirmation hearing last year, you agreed that these two
populations of grizzly bears had met recovery criteria.
Secretary Haaland, why has the Department delayed in responding
to these petitions, and when can these two Governors expect an
answer?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Senator, for the
question. I know that the Fish and Wildlife Service is working
to complete the review of the petitions that you mentioned to
delist the grizzly bear. The implementation of the ESA is
guided by science and the law. I would be happy to, when I
return this afternoon to my office, to inquire about a timeline
and make sure that Martha or someone reaches out.
Senator Daines. Yes, and for perspective, FWS did respond
to some activists who looked to relist gray wolf populations on
May 26th and June 29th. So, that was within 114 days and 80
days, respectively. There is far more data supporting grizzly
recovery than wolf relisting, and FWS is supposed to prioritize
petitions in part based on existing established data, not
politics.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Senator. I will
find out where that is and I will make sure that they are
responding appropriately.
Senator Daines. Thank you.
Your agency's five-year status review concluded the bear
was recovered, and it is my understanding the State of Montana
has responded to agency feedback regarding our conservation
plan. What reason could you have for not moving forward
favorably?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I just want you to know that we
continuously work with states and with tribes. I know Martha,
especially, being from Wyoming, is in contact with folks in the
state government. I will be happy to look at their timeline. I
will make sure that they reach out to you.
Senator Daines. Thank you.
Secretary Haaland. And I----
Senator Daines. Martha's from Montana, by the way. Martha's
from Montana, so.
Earlier this year, you authored an editorial on gray wolves
devoid of any facts or substance but nonetheless, threatening
Montana with emergency listing. Secretary Haaland, have wolf
populations in the Northern Rockies Management Unit fallen
below 150 wolves?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I could not tell you the exact
number of wolves. But I am happy to get that information.
Senator Daines. Okay, well, I can tell you that number.
There are an estimated 1,177 wolves in Montana alone this year.
The minimum target here is 150 for that unit. So that is the
number.
Secretary Haaland, have wolf populations in either state
fallen below 100 wolves for three consecutive years in a row?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, what I can say about wolves is
that I know they are doing well in certain parts of the
country. They are not doing so well in other parts of the
country.
Senator Daines. Are they doing well in Montana?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, if I could say that the work
that we are doing with respect to wolves in the ESA, it is
guided by science and the law. I feel confident that our team
is working within those parameters.
Senator Daines. Okay, I could not agree more with science
and the law. Do you realize that gray wolf populations in
Montana have remained above a thousand wolves for over ten
consecutive years?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I do not know the exact number
of wolves. I beg your pardon. I would be happy to get that
number for you and make sure you have the information that you
require.
Senator Daines. Well, as you said, the science is really
important and the law is important and the numbers are
important. So I hope you get up to speed on this. It is a very
important issue for us out west, and it is not that hard to get
the data. I expect--actually I have that in this hearing, with
all due respect.
Secretary Haaland, is there any data that shows Montana's
law significantly increased the threat to gray wolves in
Montana?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I know that wolves have made a
remarkable comeback from when they were first listed. That is
in thanks to all the partnerships that we have made. I know
that your state has done that remarkable job in ensuring that
the ecosystems support the animals that are there. The Fish and
Wildlife Service will make a 12-month finding at the end of the
review. I believe that is in September, and we can update you
further as----
Senator Daines. Thank you, and I am out of time, but just
let the record show--the data shows that the wolf population is
way over the recovery target--way over--as well as the grizzly
bear populations. So it is time to delist the grizzly bear.
Return the management of that wonderful species, that has
recovered, back to the states of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming.
Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman. And Chairman, thank
you for your interest in the fires. We are seeing really
different fire behavior these days.
The Chairman. You are on the front lines.
Senator Heinrich. We are in a drought that has not been
this bad for 1,200 years, and we are seeing wind events that we
have never seen before. So it is very--we have almost 2,000
people on one fire, and it is simply impossible for them to
hold lines when we have--we have had times when there have been
seven, eight, nine red flag days in a row. So, if you have 45
mile an hour winds, 50 mile an hour winds, you cannot put the
tankers up in the air. It is dangerous. You cannot put the
helicopters up in the air. And sometimes, you can't put
firefighters in front of these spotting fires. And so, it is
just very, very difficult. We are going to have to re-evaluate
how we fight fires, how we do prescriptions, and I very much
appreciate your interest because we are going to have to work
together on it.
The Chairman. Committed to help.
Senator Heinrich. Deputy Secretary Beaudreau, I wanted to
ask you, because you have been around for a couple of different
administrations--oil and gas production, at least in my State
of New Mexico--up or down?
Mr. Beaudreau. Oil and gas production onshore and offshore
are at record levels actually. And so, a lot of this
conversation has been focused on leasing, then it gets
conflated into, you know, allegations that the Administration
is somehow anti-production.
Senator Heinrich. Are we producing more or less oil and gas
in New Mexico on public lands?
Mr. Beaudreau. More.
Senator Heinrich. Yes. According to the EIA, our production
is up over 400 percent in the last decade. So, I just, I only
raise that because it is hard to square with some of the
rhetoric we hear here on the Hill.
I want to move to hardrock mine cleanup. Secretary, in the
Bipartisan Infrastructure bill, Congress finally authorized a
dedicated abandoned hardrock mine reclamation program,
something we have needed for decades and decades. And I was
really pleased to see in the President's budget a request for
$85 million for hardrock mine cleanup. But that funding is
channeled through the Abandoned Mine Lands program and through
the Energy Community Revitalization program, which is actually
kind of designed to deal with abandoned oil and gas wells. Why
not simply take that $85 million and fund the Abandoned
Hardrock Mine Reclamation Program that we authorized in the
infrastructure bill?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you so much for
recognizing the need for us to clean up that legacy pollution
across the country, and we are grateful to have the opportunity
to change people's lives in that way, not only about creating
jobs but cleaning up their environment so the pollution does
not cause health problems and so forth. I appreciate that
comment, and we are happy to speak with you. We are happy to
speak more with you about this issue, and of course, follow the
lead. The Department is requesting $65 million in the OS to
address these hardrock mines, so.
Senator Heinrich. Yes, I just, I think it makes sense to
stand up a stand-alone program that really focuses on this. It
was a challenge to get this established. It took decades. And I
think now is the time and----
Secretary Haaland. Thank you.
Senator Heinrich [continuing]. I look forward to working
with you on that.
Can you talk a little bit about how you are tracking
conservation progress? I know the President has articulated
some very aggressive goals. The 30 by 30 goal is out there. But
how are you actually tracking, you know, what lands Interior
has protected and what kind of progress you are able to make
toward those aggressive goals?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator, and thank you for
mentioning the America the Beautiful initiative, which is
really a very unifying opportunity for our country to conserve
for the future.
There is an atlas that is coming out. I believe the beta
version is out sometime this summer that will be able to track
those lands more consistently. We are happy to keep you updated
on when we are rolling that out, and I think it will be a
really great opportunity.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
Secretary Haaland. It should be by the end of the year--the
atlas by the end of the year.
Senator Heinrich. I look forward to having the chance to
review that when it comes out.
Secretary Haaland. Yes, thank you.
The Chairman. If I may, really quickly, Secretary Haaland,
I don't know, did you all just put out a statement? Did the
U.S. Department of the Interior put out a statement? And the
statement basically says a proposed program is not a decision
to issue specific leases or to authorize any drilling or
development. This is from you all's office. So it looks like
you all are planning to shut everything down. Did you know you
all put this out?
[The statement referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Secretary Haaland. I am sorry. I am sitting in this hearing
and not----
The Chairman. My God, somebody--it shuts it down. It shows
what your intent is.
Senator Marshall. Can you send it around?
The Chairman. Yes, we can. We will get copies for everyone.
Senator Cassidy. Can you read it once more?
The Chairman. Basically, it says Secretary Haaland provides
updates on the offshore leasing program during the Senate
testimony--``during testimony before the U.S. Senate Committee
on Energy and Natural Resources--today, Secretary of the
Interior, Deb Haaland confirmed that, despite delays in
implementation from the previous Administration, the Interior
Department will release the proposed program--the next step in
the five-year offshore energy planning process--by June 30,
2022, which is the expiration of the current program. A
proposed program is not a decision to issue specific leases or
to authorize any drilling or development.''
So they are going to do the proposal, but it does not
guarantee they are going to do any leasing at all.
Secretary Haaland. Chairman, what I can say is, I believe
what that is saying is that it is the plan that is coming out.
There is a----
The Chairman. But I think you are prefacing it by saying
after--you are acknowledging the plan. You will have a plan by
June 30th, but you went further to say that does not mean that
you are issuing any specific leases. If you have a plan, you
should have--I mean, we have never done this. This is the
first. This is history. We have never done that before--not
issue leases--if you put a plan out. The plan has always been a
long-term, five-year plan to lease.
Secretary Haaland. I do not believe that it is saying that
we are not going to do any of those things. I think it is, I
think it is----
The Chairman. Let me just pass--I will get copies for
everybody. Maybe I am reading it wrong. We will get copies for
everybody.
Secretary Haaland. I think it is saying that we are putting
the plan out but not saying what is in the plan.
The Chairman. With the intent not to--in all honesty, I'm
sorry, we are going to have to agree to disagree. I am not
going to get into dialogue back and forth.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Beaudreau. Yes, Senator, Chairman, if I can just, sort
of, be clear?
The Chairman. Okay.
Mr. Beaudreau. The five-year planning process is a three-
step process. The Trump Administration did the first step in
2018, and then they dropped the process, largely because their
energy dominance rhetoric caused a lot of alarm. It caused a
lot of pushback. And so it is appropriate for us to take a
step, be deliberate as we think about potential future leasing
described in the five-year program. What that statement says is
by the end of June, we will take step number two, and it is
just step number two in a three-step process. No decisions
about leasing will be made until step number three. That is all
that says.
The Chairman. With all due respect, let me just say this--I
am told that we always got your step one, what you intend to
do, on June 30th, a lot longer than the deadline, a lot of time
in between. We would have had time to go to step two and three
and evaluate where you were going. It would have sent a clear
signal that you are looking at what is going to basically
provide the assurance that we can continue to provide for
ourselves in America the cleanest energy coming from the Gulf,
but we are getting this at the last possible day in the last
possible minute, knowing that there are other steps to go
through. It gives us no security. That is all I am saying. The
timing is not right. You all have taken as long as you possibly
could.
Mr. Beaudreau. I hear you, Chairman.
The Chairman. Okay.
Mr. Beaudreau. It is, as the Secretary said, we got a lot
put into our lap that we have to sort through.
The Chairman. I do and I----
Mr. Beaudreau. Including to calm down the American people
when they put out a plan that caused panic in Republican states
like Florida, up and down the Atlantic Coast. We have to unpack
all that.
The Chairman. Yes. We understand that we are in challenging
times right now, but we have got to send a clear signal that we
can take care of ourselves in the United States.
With that, who do we have? Senator Cantwell.
Oh, we are back to the Republicans? Oh, I was----
Senator Cantwell. Oh, I wish I could be next.
The Chairman. I know. I know, you would like to be.
Senator Cantwell. I am sure I am not.
The Chairman. Senator Lankford.
You will be after Senator Lankford.
Senator Lankford. Mr. Chairman, thank you.
Let me finish out this conversation. On June 30, there is a
release of a proposal. There is going to be a comment period
and everything else on offshore. When is the earliest we could
actually start leasing? I know there is a comment period coming
back in. I have got a lot of other questions I want to go
through, but when is the earliest, based on this proposal, we
could actually start leasing? Because the five-year plan is set
to be done by that point. It is not done. It is a proposal. So
when is the earliest we could actually start leasing?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you for the question. The
develop and release of the proposed program draft, the
programmatic environmental impact statement, followed by a 90-
day public comment period. We incorporate those comments and
input to develop and publish the proposed final program and
final programmatic EIS, which can be approved by me and adopted
60 days after that. So we plan to have the proposed program by
June 30th.
Senator Lankford. Right.
Secretary Haaland. And another 90, plus 60--150 days after
that and probably----
Senator Lankford. So you are saying by the end of this
year, by December 31, at that point, with that calendar, that
you would be able to start leasing at that point?
Secretary Haaland. I will absolutely keep you abreast of
the progress that we are making and make sure that this
Committee knows----
Senator Lankford. So, is it--when is the deadline on it, to
be able to start leasing actually, to be able to get to this
point, to have this process done?
Secretary Haaland. I don't think there is an actual
deadline.
Senator Lankford. That is the concern, actually, that all
of us have, is that there is actually no deadline, that the
proposal to talk about it is coming on the date that it should
be done, and that this is going to then stretch out for the
next two or three years of talking about it. And so, we are
trying to figure out, when is the deadline to actually start
leasing?
Secretary Haaland. We will absolutely keep you informed.
Senator Lankford. So there is not a deadline on it?
Secretary Haaland. Not at this moment.
Senator Lankford. Okay, let me run a couple things past
you. We have a military base in Oklahoma that has a large
energy--of natural gas actually. This has been a priority for
DOD and others to try to make their bases more independent for
energy at this point. We have been trying to get technical
assistance from your office for the last five months to try to
get the details on this. Can you commit to me we will be able
to get some technical assistance? Because this is a priority of
DOD, obviously of our state, but we are waiting on your team to
be able to finish this out.
Secretary Haaland. I am so sorry if you have been waiting
on us. I will absolutely make sure that someone reaches out to
your staff this afternoon.
Senator Lankford. It would be very helpful. We are dealing
with the same thing with the Osage Mineral Council. This is a
tribe in Oklahoma that is very dependent on BIA and making
decisions there. We have multiple decisions that have been
delayed for a long time. This also deals with the remediation,
the plugging, and all kinds of other things there that the
Osage Mineral Council has been very interested in, but it seems
to be just delay, delay. The latest we just got back was
sometime in June, and we are just trying to figure out when we
are going to get a decision on that.
Secretary Haaland. I just want you to know that Assistant
Secretary Bryan Newland has been in touch with the tribe
recently and he will continue to work with them.
Senator Lankford. That was the letter that says we will get
back to you in June. I have seen that letter as well from
Bryan. But they are just looking to try to figure out when they
are going to get answers. Right now, they are just getting a,
``we will give you an answer at some future date,'' and trying
to be able to get resolution on this.
In the Southwest, and you may have heard about this, we
tried to give an update to your team we were going to ask about
this. The Administration talks a lot about critical minerals
development. In the Southwest, there is a company that is
trying, that has gone through the leasing process to actually
do leasing since 2017 on lithium in that area. And now, there
is a pretty dramatic change where there has been a withholding
of the core of their lithium deposit that they are now saying,
well, you can do all of your development, but not here in the
core of actually the project itself. It is being held out. All
they are looking for is for the information of how this
decision is made and what they can actually get public about
the actual mineral process itself. All they want is just
engagement, but they are not getting the engagement at this
point, and this is lithium deposits, which I understand we are
trying to go after. So, again, it is just engagement to be able
to do this.
One more thing, you talked before about some of the leasing
onshore and had said you were trying to work with the different
entities on trying to get the best possible leases out there.
The Ranking Member had mentioned before that in Wyoming, they
are dealing with the frustration of the best possible leases
being the ones that are actually not being allowed--that it is
ones that are far away from the infrastructure. I am
interacting with companies that are saying there is a
checkerboard of leases and yes, they are producing, but they
have a lease and they cannot get the leases around it. So they
are not going to go develop that lease until they know they can
actually lease around it. So, this checkerboard is not being
made available to them. So, they are saying just drill on what
you have, and they are saying well, we are not going to really
do long-term, intensive development there, bring in additional
employees and bring in additional supplies until we know we can
actually connect these leases and do more development. But that
is not being allowed by your team. They have reached out
multiple times to the team to say, will you talk to us about
these leases being made available, and the answers they are
getting is zero. They are not getting a response at all on it.
So the frustration here is, making the right leases
available to actually lease that is next to other energy that
is being developed where the actual infrastructure is. Again,
this has the appearance for the future of--we do not want more
development in this area, we are going to make it more
expensive and harder to be able to get to those leases rather
than the less expensive, you know, areas where we know we have
reserves and infrastructure being made available.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you so much for bringing that to
my attention, and I will absolutely make sure that my staff
reaches out to you and reaches out to them. I apologize for
that non-communication.
Senator Lankford. Thank you. We all want to be able to get
more energy. Our prices depend on it at this point to be able
to get access to that.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Cantwell.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Madam Secretary, good to see you. I wanted to get three
things covered, if I could, but first is the fire season. We
have gotten from the incident Predictive Services what the fire
season will look like--significant fire threat above normal for
August. And sorry, I do not have a larger chart there, but you
can see, you know, obviously my eye goes to Washington right
away.
[The chart referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cantwell. So, the central part of our state, which
is, you know, where we are always concerned, although, I am
pretty sure that red area goes all the way over to Spokane. So
I wanted to ask you about weather predictives, because 73
percent of the fires that were started in our state were
started from lightning strikes. So the weather and weather
predictive issues matter. Senator Sullivan and I just
introduced a bill to upgrade the NOAA weather forecasting
capabilities to give us more accurate data. This is helpful not
only in caching services in advance when we know where fires
are going to be, but also, protection of our firefighting
personnel.
We had an incident where probably if we would have been
listening to the forecasting in Seattle, we would not have sent
people out--just like my colleague was saying--high winds, but
the forecaster that was on the ground in the Okanogan did not
think the winds were going to be that high, and obviously, we
ended up with fatalities that day. So what will Interior do to
work with NOAA to better integrate forecasting capabilities in
the operations and management?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Senator.
You are absolutely right that better forecasting can help
fire managers in planning, and the firefighting efforts on the
ground. We work with NOAA all the time. We work with our
colleagues across the Federal Government for issues such as
this, and I will make sure that we are reaching out to NOAA
specifically on this issue and doing all we can to----
Senator Cantwell. If we need an MOU or something, whatever
we call it, within the government, I hope we do that because I
think it is important.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you.
Senator Cantwell. The second map is on drought conditions,
which, you know, again, you would think rainy Seattle--what are
you talking about? Well, the central part of our state there,
big agriculture basin and you know, I really start worrying
about wheat when we look at what is going on in Ukraine and I
look at what is happening with the wheat production in
Washington and Idaho, which is quite significant.
[The chart referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cantwell. We are hearing from our wheat growers
that, I mean, we are still in drought conditions and so, that
is why we have fought for funding in technologies to look at
aquifer recharge. So do you believe that getting this program
up and running as soon as possible would be helpful in water
source substitutions in the West?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you so much for the question.
First, I just want to say that our team, Tanya Trujillo, our
Assistant Secretary for Water and Science, her team is in such
close contact with every state and folks on the ground with
respect to this terrible drought in the West. They work on that
every single day. And certainly, Reclamation is currently
assessing the eligible projects for funding capabilities and
needs. So thank you. Every tool in the toolbox is what we need
to use with respect to this drought. Senator Heinrich mentioned
it is the worst it has been in 1,200 years. So I just want you
to know that we are doing everything that we possibly can and
appreciate you bringing that----
Senator Cantwell. Yes, I think the recharge idea is a great
idea. I just think we ought to get on it and get on it quickly.
The last thing, I wanted to--the Chairman had a meeting I
was unable to attend, on Canadian cooperation and issues
related to mining. To me, it showcases how Canada has been
successful at hardrock mining because they have had a royalty
system, and I do want us to work on critical minerals together.
These are essential to key technologies, from cobalt to lithium
to photovoltaic cells to rare earth mineral magnets that are
used in wind and electric vehicles. So we need to focus on
making sure the U.S. is competitive in critical mineral markets
and find innovative ways and environmentally responsible ways
to do that, including recycling these materials. Do you think
that this royalty issue should be addressed here? Can you
please describe how the Department can support both critical
minerals development on public land while ensuring it is in,
you know, appropriate places and what you think about the
royalty issue?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator.
And I am very, very proud to lead the United States
Geological Survey. There is a team of scientists there that
work on this issue every single day, and they understand the
President's leadership with respect to critical minerals and
our clean energy technology that we are moving toward. Also,
the Interagency Work Group has met recently. I was at their
first meeting. They are working to make recommendations to all
of us on how we can be more efficient. The Mining Law is 150
years old, and has not had any changes since then, so it is
pretty clear that our country has changed. And so, I am happy
that they have a chance to work on that. But we will take all
those recommendations to heart.
Senator Cantwell. Did anybody want to make a comment on the
royalty issue?
Mr. Beaudreau. Yes. One of the changes that needs to be
made in the Mining Law is to provide us with a royalty
mechanism. No question.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Senator Cassidy.
Senator Cassidy. Thank you, all.
Let's imagine someone is watching on C-SPAN right now, and
they are hearing two sides, if you will, from the Chairman all
the way over, speaking about how this Administration appears to
have had a concerted effort to block oil and gas development.
And you deny it. But the fact that you deny it suggests that
you agree that if we had more production, it could help lower
the price at the pump and lower the fuel prices, the air
conditioning, the heating prices, for the folks at home. Now,
that mom who is watching on C-SPAN, wondering how she is going
to pay for her gasoline, is wondering who to believe because I
think it is critical if we can--we apparently all agree that if
we increase production that there might be some positive
benefit upon the prices that she is paying at the pump and for
her fuel bill.
So, let me just put up some actions of this Administration
to kind of put it out there, if you will.
[The chart referred to follows:]
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Senator Cassidy. The first week President Biden came in, he
canceled the Keystone XL Pipeline, shipping oil from our
closest ally down to the Gulf Coast to be processed in an
environmentally sensitive way. Halted all new oil and gas
leasing. Killed a five-year offshore leasing program. Frankly,
your Administration is populated with people who hate fossil
fuel. Invalidated Gulf lease sale 257. Did not appeal.
Pressured financial markets into abandoning financing for
fossil fuel projects. I could keep going. Now, I have got ten
up there. I could probably add 20. So when I hear, oh no, we
are doing everything possible, but what am I going to believe?
My lying eyes or--this is just not making sense to me.
And Mr. Beaudreau, when you say that you could not go to
lease sales because you had to clean up all the uncertainty
that had been created by the previous Administration, along the
Atlantic, along Florida, et cetera, we are talking about Gulf
Coast lease sales--not the Eastern Gulf--about the Central and
Western Gulf. I have a letter here from the Governors. It
includes the Governor of Alaska, but the Governors of
Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and Texas. They want those
lease sales. There was no mess to clean up there because it
employs tens of thousands of Americans. And so, I would like to
submit this for the record, and I assume that it is, even
though my Chair has stepped out for a second. And I see that
the powers that be are nodding their heads yes.
[Letter from the Governors of Alaska, Mississippi,
Louisiana, Alabama, and Texas follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cassidy. So the idea that there would be some sort
of objection in the Gulf Coast to a lease sale is certainly not
held up by these Governors. And I think that the Chairman's
point that you have waited to the last possible moment to put
in the first stage when normally everything else would have
been done by the date that you are releasing the first stage,
is again, telling.
So for the person who is watching, Madam Secretary, is it
more--so, you have mentioned climate several times, and I know
for the Administration, the concern about emissions is top.
Here comes fossil fuel development. Here comes lowering the
price of gas, and climate is top. Okay, that is a priority. We
can accept that priority. Is it more environmentally friendly
to develop and produce oil and gas resources off the coast of
Louisiana, or is it more environmentally friendly to develop
those resources say, in Venezuela, or in another country abroad
in terms of emissions, in terms of climate?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, what I can say is that I think
here in our country we care deeply about workers.
Senator Cassidy. But that is not my question. My question
is, what has the lowest emissions profile, using Louisiana or
American workers in the Outer Continental Shelf off the Gulf,
with American companies and American regulations or Venezuelan
standards and Venezuelan crude?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I am not an economist or an
engineer or a scientist, but with respect----
Senator Cassidy. I am almost out of time, and I get a sense
that this question is not going to be answered
straightforwardly, no offense. There is a national lab which
has determined that the emission profile of developing oil and
gas off the coast of Louisiana is the lowest in the world for
that oil which is processed in Louisiana.
Hold up the second one, please.
[The chart referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cassidy. Yet these are the countries that we are
asking to produce oil and gas as opposed to us with our workers
and our lowest standards. Now, this is the crazy thing--if you
are concerned about climate, you should be producing in
Louisiana.
Lastly, Mr. Beaudreau, you had mentioned that production is
now higher. That is not true in the Gulf of Mexico. In the Gulf
of Mexico, relative to when this Administration took office, we
are down about 300,000 barrels a day in the EIA literature from
February. Now, that is a pretty significant decrease--300,000
barrels a day. Maybe you have something later than what is
online with EIA, but this Administration's all-points-assault
on American oil and gas production is hurting that person who
is watching on C-SPAN at home, it is hurting the jobs being
created, and it is hurting the international environment.
And with that, I yield.
Mr. Beaudreau. Chairman, can I address the last point from
Senator Cassidy?
The Chairman. Please do.
Mr. Beaudreau. Just in a matter of statistics. In calendar
year 2020, there were about 615 million barrels of oil produced
in the Gulf of Mexico. In calendar year 2021, there were 628
million barrels. So, production, far from, you know, blocking
production, we have seen production both onshore and offshore
increase on public lands during this Administration.
Senator Cassidy. Mr. Beaudreau, can I respond that?
The Chairman. Please.
Senator Cassidy. That is being a little disingenuous, and
it is kind of typical of this conversation. There was a huge
decrease when COVID hit, and so you are factoring in those
lowest months when COVID hit. Boom. And production fell all
over, and now you are saying, but the next year we did better.
But we had an artificial low. If you want to look at month-to-
month, in January 2020 there was 1,988,000 barrels of oil
produced per month in the Gulf. And then, now, at least
February, the latest numbers I have, is 1,615,000. Now, that
takes out that COVID lull and it just looks at, kind of, okay,
economy back, what is happening? Mine seems a more accurate
analysis.
Mr. Beaudreau. I mean, if the hypothesis is that the
Administration is doing everything it can to block and prevent
production, the data does not bear that out.
Senator Cassidy. I disagree with that and I can show my
first poster again, but we will have to agree to disagree.
The Chairman. Senator Kelly.
Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And Senator Cassidy, as an engineer and somebody who looked
at the data, I can confirm that the amount of carbon that
results from production offshore from Louisiana is a lot less
than what comes from Venezuela.
So, Secretary Haaland, I want to thank you for today's
announcement that the Department will produce a draft plan for
the offshore oil and gas leasing program. In some parts of
Arizona, the price of a gallon of gas is now above $5 a gallon,
well above the national average--too expensive for hardworking
families that have to commute to work and take their kids to
school and struggle to buy medicine and groceries. As Chairman
Manchin mentioned in his opening remarks, the two of us,
Senator Manchin and I, wrote a letter to the President urging
him to develop the next five-year plan for offshore oil
development in the Gulf of Mexico. These five-year programs, as
you know, Madam Secretary, are important because they designate
which areas are open to development and they send a signal to
the market as well and to investors that the Federal Government
has a framework in place for approving future projects. Your
announcement that you will produce a draft five-year offshore
plan next month is helpful. How soon will we get a finalized
plan for the Department of the Interior?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you for the question, Senator, and
as I mentioned earlier, we are working expeditiously to move
this forward. I know my team is. I won't go through all the
steps, but we essentially have to start from scratch on this
issue. We--there are several other steps beside--after the
draft that comes out on June 30th. That would be followed by a
90-day public comment period, followed by another final
programmatic EIS that could be adopted 60 days later. We are
happy to keep you updated on our progress on this issue, and we
will be happy to keep you updated.
Senator Kelly. So, based on the 90 days, plus the 60 days,
it looks like the earliest would be November 30th. Is there any
way to accelerate that?
Secretary Haaland. As I mentioned, we are working
expeditiously.
Senator Kelly. Right. Thank you, Madam Secretary.
I want to transition a little bit to drought and water in
the West. We are experiencing the worst drought in 1,200 years
and it has been going on for two decades, and the supply of the
Colorado River water is, you know, tightening faster than
experts predicted. And we have, already in Arizona, curtailed
about a third of our share, voluntarily, of Colorado River
water. Lake Powell is so low that the Glen Canyon Dam is
getting close to not being able to generate power anymore. That
energy, renewable energy, goes to five million people in six
states, and the Department of the Interior budget request for
drought contingency operations in the Basin totals $18.7
million. That funding would be used for water conservation and
fallowing of land to stabilize water levels in Lake Powell and
Lake Mead.
The President's request for drought contingency operations
is simply not enough. $18.7 million is not enough money for
this. Can you work with us to reexamine this budget item?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, we are always, always happy to
work with you, and I do want to, yes, recognize how terrible
this drought is. I am from New Mexico and you see the fires
that are happening because of it. So, yes, we are always more
than happy to work with you.
Senator Kelly. Yes, we are on the verge of another horrible
fire season as well. I know in New Mexico, you had the first or
second worst fire in the state's history here that was just
burning a couple weeks ago. At the time that that fire was
burning, we had three major fires in the State of Arizona. You
know, this is related to, you know, how dry our states are. We
have to solve this water problem. I mean, it is not going to
solve itself, so we just cannot hope for this drought to end,
and we need more help from the Administration. So, thank you,
Madam Secretary.
The Chairman. Senator Lee.
Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Secretary Haaland, I understand you will be in Utah next
week for the signing of the Navajo Water Rights Agreement. I
want to thank you for your work on that issue and your
collaboration on these and many other issues.
Madam Secretary, in January 2021, shortly after he took
office, President Biden told the American public that he was
placing this moratorium on oil and gas leasing and informed
them that it would be contingent upon a report to be produced
by your Department, the Department of the Interior, regarding
the oil and gas leasing program. Now, a couple things have
happened since then. One is that the report has been produced
and released by your Department. The other is that there has
been a court order concluding that the President lacked the
authority to issue this moratorium to begin with, and your
Department chose not to appeal that court ruling.
So let me ask you this. In light of this, does the
President want to continue the oil and gas leasing moratorium?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, there is not a moratorium.
Senator Lee. Okay, there is not one, so you are saying he
does not want to continue one.
Now, is it important, some might suggest, that leasing is
resumed. Well, that kind of assumes facts not in evidence.
Number one, offshore leasing has not resumed, and you have cut
onshore leasing by 80 percent, and at the same time, imposed a
50 percent royalty hike, which will of course be passed on to
American consumers in the midst of an energy crisis in which
they are tired of paying $5, soon to be $6 gas. So, would you
advise the President to reinstate the oil and gas leasing
moratorium? Yes or no?
Secretary Haaland. No. I mean, there was a pause. There was
not a moratorium. There is not a moratorium now.
Senator Lee. Okay, okay. So there is a pause. There is not
a moratorium now, but it seems to me like there is a de facto
moratorium. No leasing going on offshore, and onshore has been
restricted by 80 percent, with the further discouragement
provided by a 50 percent royalty increase passed on to
consumers who are tired of paying $5, soon to be $6 a gallon
gas. We have seen this pattern of attacks on the oil and gas
industry, and just last week, the Department canceled three
scheduled auctions that would have opened up space in Alaska's
Cook Inlet and the Gulf of Mexico for energy production.
Now, a couple of interesting things about this. Gina
McCarthy, the White House Climate Advisor, told a CBS reporter
that an offshore lease sale had been canceled. She did so
before the cancellation was even made public. Did you authorize
Ms. McCarthy to make that statement--that announcement?
Secretary Haaland. I don't believe that I spoke with Ms.
McCarthy that day.
Senator Lee. So you did not authorize it.
Now, just last month, Ms. McCarthy also told MSNBC that,
``President Biden remains absolutely committed to not moving
forward with additional drilling on public lands.'' Do you
agree with Ms. McCarthy as to that statement? Yes or no.
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I am working to lead the
Department of the Interior.
Senator Lee. I get that, but do you agree with the
statement or not?
Secretary Haaland. I don't know. I mean, I don't--I did not
speak with Ms. McCarthy. I do not speak with them about any
statements that they make.
Senator Lee. I did not ask that. I asked whether you agreed
with it, and your answer is you don't know. A perfectly
legitimate answer, I suppose, but troubling in some ways.
Now, with respect to the Cook Inlet lease, which was
canceled, your Department--the Department of the Interior--
cited ``lack of industry interest'' in that lease. Now, it
seems to me that industry interest cannot really, reasonably be
gauged or gauged at all until the extent or the value of the
actual bids are made clear. So, does this mean you are going to
force companies to tip their hand--show their cards--every time
they want to pursue a leasing opportunity?
Secretary Haaland. Well, I think it is our job to make sure
that we are reaching out to companies, that we are engaging
their interest by speaking with them and if there is no
interest then it does not make sense to move forward.
Senator Lee. Mr. Beaudreau, the Cook Inlet lease, yes or
no, would be a relatively low-producing lease, correct?
Mr. Beaudreau. So, I grew up looking out on Cook Inlet and
I will just say there is a long history of leases--lease
potential, lease sales in Cook Inlet being delayed or canceled.
Senator Lee. Low-producing? High-producing?
Okay. Not at all responsive to my question. The answer is,
relative to others, it is a relatively small one. But
interestingly enough, the Department of the Interior determined
that its draft EIS concluded that by not offering even this
relatively small lease in the Cook Inlet, oil prices would rise
by about one percent. Now, this is your Department concluding
that oil prices would rise by about one cent per barrel. Now,
it withheld those leases anyway, while we are in the midst of
an energy crisis. Americans tired of paying $5 a gallon gas,
soon to be $6 a gallon gas. I read a report this morning
indicating that many gas companies are recalibrating their
registers so that they can actually keep up with the charges of
$10 dollar or more a gallon gas.
But the Gulf leases are much, much larger. They are huge.
Did the Department conduct an analysis of how much higher oil
prices would go as a result of the cancellation of those Gulf
leases?
Madam Secretary, yes, or no?
Secretary Haaland. I would be happy to get you that answer,
Senator. I could not tell you at the moment.
Senator Lee. Okay.
Can I ask one more follow-up question? It will be very
brief.
In January, a federal judge invalidated Lease Sale 257
based on your Department--the Department of the Interior--doing
insufficient environmental analysis. Now, you chose not to
appeal that decision, so none of those leases will be awarded
or drilled. And again, as I look at this, and as a long-time
appellate lawyer, I suspect that it is likely one of two
explanations. It is either you were happy with the result, you
liked the result, or alternatively, you knew that the
environmental work that your Department had done on this was
sloppy. So, which was it?
Secretary Haaland. Well, what I could say about that is
that our solicitors, they consult with the Department of
Justice on these issues and they make the determination on
whether an appeal should take place.
Senator Lee. We have a Department that is determined to not
allow oil and gas leasing. They have hiked royalties. They have
taken things out of eligibility for leasing. This is coming at
great expense to the American people who are paying dearly for
it. The American people deserve better.
The Chairman. Senator.
Senator Lee. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Hickenlooper.
Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And Secretary Haaland, I can only imagine the difficulty as
someone who served locally from the State of New Mexico and
then served for this country and Congress to be on the
receiving end of such pointed questions when any appointed
person knows it is always a difficult balance of how to
interpret what the White House or others are saying. So, I feel
remarkable empathy for the process going forward.
But it doesn't make me want to stop about the U.S.
Geological Survey and the 23 percent, which I was going to say,
is not enough of an increase. I am just kidding. Yes, I think
it is a long overdue increase. And I think as we are going
through this great energy transition, I think what Senator Lee
and so many people are concerned about, and I think there is an
urgency on most of this Committee to make sure we have a
balanced approach, because as we get to a clean energy economy
as quickly as we can, we want to make sure that we don't
balance that on the backs of working people who can't afford to
spend $100 or even $80 to fill up their cars.
Another parallel of this is essential minerals, what we
call critical minerals. They are hard to find here. We are
heavily reliant on imports, as you know. Somehow, we need to
decrease our reliance on foreign countries and figure out how
to improve our domestic supply chain. I saw that the budget
request within the U.S. Geological Survey is for supply chain
research related to critical minerals. And I realize you are
not going to be able to give all the details, and Mr.
Beaudreau, you maybe can help on this. But I was curious as to
what that looks like. How can the Department of the Interior
help bolster our domestic critical minerals supply chain?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you for asking that, Senator. And
I just, first I just want to say that I recognize how difficult
times are for people. I was a single mom, and so I understand
what everyone is talking about. Thank you for letting me say
that.
The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law made a major investment
in the U.S. Geological Survey's Earth MRI program, and that
would be spending of $320 million over five years. The
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law also set a ten-year initial goal
for that program, the Earth MRI. We expect to have a map of the
majority of areas believed to have subsurface critical mineral
potential. During that time, or within that time, we will
develop then a first generation national mine waste inventory.
So we are working. I also mentioned earlier the Interagency
Working Group that wants to move the efficiency of that
forward.
And I don't know if Tommy would like to say anything.
Mr. Beaudreau. No, I agree. It is, as directed by the
President, one of the primary goals of the Interagency Working
Group is to move forward on domestic sourcing, including
through mining, but also through new technology development, as
well as recycling to source these materials. It is also--and
you know, I know you know this better than anyone, Senator
Hickenlooper--part of the challenge is being saddled with the
1872 Mining Law. And with renewable energy, we can have the
leasing program that deconflicts potential resources from
tribal conflicts, wildlife conflicts, et cetera. We are not
able to do that under the 1872 Mining Law.
So one of the things we will be working with Congress on is
to modernize the law. You know, not every century--maybe every
other century--we should take a look at those laws and update
them.
Senator Hickenlooper. I think you all have some eager
participants here.
Secretary Haaland, the BLM might be remiss if I did not
talk about your efforts, and I know there is progress being
made, and again, Mr. Beaudreau, you could chime in. But the
expanded leadership in Grand Junction's Western Headquarters
among, you know, their--we want to make sure that there was--
well, you are making sure there is an adequate presence in
Washington, DC balanced with that expanded leadership in Grand
Junction's Western Headquarters. How is the DOI going to be
able to offer concrete information on not just the number of
employees, but the leadership positions at the Grand Junction
Western Headquarters as we go forward.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator and I know we have
talked about this a number of times and I have always been so
happy to visit Colorado when I have had those opportunities.
And you know, I traveled to Grand Junction and I had a meeting
with the employees there in person over the Internet because we
were still in COVID. But you probably know that the BLM started
an employee advisory group. They are working right now to make
those recommendations for all the potential positions for the
Western Headquarters. We will absolutely be reviewing those
recommendations soon and expect to be able to announce those
roles and possibly the numbers sometime in the near future.
If you want to reach out to us anytime, we are happy to
give you and update on where we are on that. And I think we are
in pretty close contact with your staff in your office.
Senator Hickenlooper. I think your staff is probably tired
of our phone calls, but we do appreciate your visits, multiple
visits. Two visits to Colorado were warmly received by
Republicans and Democrats. I think your willingness to go out
to Grand Junction and to meet with people in their own town and
their own home really spoke volumes. It was time very well
spent. We appreciate it.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you.
Senator Hickenlooper. I yield back to the Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Hyde-Smith.
Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you
for being here today.
And being the Senator from Mississippi, I, too, want to
talk about the Gulf of Mexico. I am in very, very close contact
with the producers down there and the companies that are
concerned about these leases. And you know, offshore oil and
gas production in the Gulf of Mexico has proven so many times
that it is the cleanest on the planet due to the stringent
environmental safety standards that we have to meet down there.
It provides 15 percent of the U.S. production and it is a
critical source of reliable and affordable energy. So, despite
these benefits, the leases required by law are being canceled
at a time when our nation is suffering from record high
gasoline and diesel prices. And at the same time, President
Biden claims his Administration's policies are not holding back
domestic energy production. And you know, we have charts of the
decline of the Gulf of Mexico--five percent since January 2021.
[The chart referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Hyde-Smith. So, my question to you, Madam
Secretary, is what does your Department have against utilizing
Gulf of Mexico production for domestic energy? This makes no
sense whatsoever. So, can you just explain to me what your
Department has against utilizing this?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, we are perfectly moving forward
on all of the work that we have to. We do not prioritize, you
know, one lease over the other or one area over the other. I am
not exactly sure--we do not have anything against the Gulf of
Mexico.
Senator Hyde-Smith. Why were the two leases canceled just
the week before last? Why were those two leases canceled?
Secretary Haaland. Are you--I am not sure. Are you----
Senator Hyde-Smith. The same time the Alaskan lease was
canceled. You canceled three--two from the Gulf of Mexico and
one from Alaska. Why were the two in the Gulf of Mexico
canceled?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator. It was likely
because of the conflicting litigation that is happening. Is
that what--I believe that is what you could be talking about.
In the case of the two Gulf lease sales, conflicting litigation
made it extremely difficult to move forward given the legal
parameters that we were trying to deal with, the timelines and
so forth.
Senator Hyde-Smith. So are you willing to work to improve
this--this decline of five percent since 2021? Do you expect to
increase those leases in the Gulf of Mexico?
Secretary Haaland. I know that we are working hard to--as I
mentioned many times, even when I was before this Committee
during my confirmation hearing, we are working very hard to
balance the use of public lands, knowing that they are public
and they belong to every single American. Also, we know that we
are working hard with the fossil fuel programs to take climate
change into account. I appreciate all of the information from
you and Senator Cassidy about the durability and the cleanness
of the Gulf of Mexico oil. I am more than happy to make sure
that we continue to work with your office moving forward.
Senator Hyde-Smith. Okay, I am going to get on to my next
question then.
The piece that was passed along--we got a hold of that
early this morning. Christopher got a hold of that and your
Department informed my staff this morning that it would release
the draft proposal on June 30th, and you know, I suppose that
that should be good news, but I am just interested whether or
not--is this an admission that your Department will fail to
meet the June 30th deadline for the final five-year program?
Secretary Haaland. Well, considering the fact that we
essentially had to start from scratch on this program, as we
mentioned, the previous Administration stopped in 2018 and did
not do any more work on it. So we picked that up when we got
into office.
Senator Hyde-Smith. But I mean, is this an admission that
you are not going to meet that final draft deadline of June
30th? That is a yes or no.
Secretary Haaland. Yes. The final draft will not be out by
June 30th.
Senator Hyde-Smith. Okay. And I have one minute left.
The White House recently stated that the President's policy
is to ban additional leasing, and that is from an April 19th
statement from the White House Press Secretary at that time--
``It is not in line with the President's policy, which is to
ban additional leasing.'' And we have seen the obvious
detrimental effects that this misguided policy is having on all
American families. Does the Interior Department agree with such
a policy?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, what I could say is that I am
guided by the law----
Senator Hyde-Smith. Okay, and it is a clear violation of
your Department's requirement to prepare and maintain a five-
year program for the offshore leasing and development. So if
you agree with the law, are you saying that you are in
compliance with this now?
Secretary Haaland. We are working on it given the fact of
the conflicting litigation that we had, of the fact that the
process was stopped in 2018 for three years, and that we had to
pick it back up again.
Senator Hyde-Smith. My time is out. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you.
And Senator King.
Senator King. I want to return to the budget.
[Laughter.]
Senator King. As I recall----
Senator Barrasso. It's not a return. You are the first one.
[Laughter.]
Senator King [continuing]. That was the point of this
hearing.
The Chairman. Start it off.
Senator King. Okay, yes. Okay, point one is quit deferring
maintenance in the national parks. The budget that you propose,
happy you proposed it, but it is $2.8 billion for $400 billion
worth of assets? That is less than one percent. The general
industry standard is two to four percent of value for
maintenance. We went through a lot of effort, time, and
struggle to pass the bipartisan Great American Outdoors Act, a
big part of which was to tackle deferred maintenance. But let's
stop digging the hole, okay? So I hope that what you can do is
come back with a revised request or work with us to increase
the maintenance budget because it is not adequate. $2.8 billion
on $400 billion worth of assets is not adequate, and it is
pretty frustrating, as someone who really worked hard on the
Great American Outdoors Act, to see the Administration
continuing a pattern of--and I am not blaming this
Administration, this goes back 30 years, 40 years, but to
continue a pattern of underfunding maintenance, and therefore,
we are going to have to do this again at some point in the
future. I don't want to do that. Let's do our maintenance, as
we should, right now.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you.
Senator King. Second point--National Park Service
staffing--there are increases in the budget, but again, they
are not adequate. Senator Daines and I have made a
recommendation that there should be 23,000 full time
equivalents. That is based on visitation rates and historical
visitation rates. The problem is, visitation keeps going up and
staffing is staying the same. That is not fair to the visitors.
It is not fair to the Park Service staff that are being
stressed and overworked. I had a chart. I did not bring it
today, but at Yellowstone, for example, staffing is pretty much
the same as it was in 2011. Attendance is almost double. And
this is true at Acadia. It is true at Yosemite. It is true
across the country.
So that is the second point, is I would like to work with
you on increasing staffing numbers because, again, it is not
fair to the visitors and to the staff to put them in that
position. I hope you will work with me on that.
Secretary Haaland. Absolutely. Yes, we absolutely agree. I
have traveled to a number of national parks across the country,
and it is a similar story in many places, so thank you. I mean,
I am happy that people are getting out to our national parks,
so we need to make sure we are supporting that.
Senator King. I am too, but we have to maintain them.
Secretary Haaland. Yes.
Senator King. And have them adequately staffed in order to
maintain the experience.
Final point, following the leadership of my other
colleagues, I am going to depart from the budget for a minute.
Offshore wind is an enormously important potential energy
source. Virtually all, if not all of the offshore wind
proposals that are out there have one thing in common--they are
not really offshore wind. They are onshore wind in the water.
In other words, they go to the ground. The towers go into the
seabed. The University of Maine has been working for 14 years
to develop a proposal for a floating offshore wind capacity,
which could be an enormous breakthrough because it opens up a
much bigger area for potential offshore wind development.
They have a proposal that they have been working with the
Department of Energy on for many years. The Department of
Energy has made a significant investment. This is a technical
matter and perhaps we need to talk to your counsel, but Senator
Collins and I wrote to you about this project and the response
was, well, we are working on it, but we have to issue a request
for other proposals because under the statute we have to look
for competition.
The question is, what is the meaning of the word
competition? We believe it is competition for a research array,
which is what this project is. Not a commercial array, a
research array, and we hope that that can be expedited. This
is, I believe, one of the most important energy independence,
clean energy projects in the country or in the world because
offshore wind that is on a floating platform would be an
enormous breakthrough. So I hope that you will go back and talk
to the people in the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management about
expediting this process, following the statute to be sure, but
not opening it up to a lengthy, competitive project for
commercial use, which is not what this project is.
Secretary Haaland. I understand. Thank you, Senator. I will
absolutely take that message back to BOEM.
Senator King. And I just want you to know that Senator
Collins and I are absolutely committed to this project because
we want to do the research. Maine has the highest percentage of
fisheries related to income of any state in the country. One of
the things we want to know is, what is the impact on fisheries?
Our fishing community is concerned about that. The only way we
are going to know this is if we can do the research necessary.
And again, that is one of the reasons we want to move forward
with this. So, I appreciate your commitment. I am going to hold
you to it.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you, yes, and we are committed to
offshore wind. In fact, we have been working extremely hard and
have had some tremendous success in offshore wind projects
moving forward. I was in California, and they were also talking
about floating wind turbines that they would tow out to the
middle of the ocean. So I am happy to see that technology and
that research moving forward, and appreciate your interest in
it. I will make sure that I speak with Amanda about this issue.
Senator King. Thank you. We are ready to do it, and we
would really like to see an acceleration of the process within
the constraints of the statute. Thank you.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you.
Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Senator Murkowski.
Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Madam Secretary, I think it is important that I am here as
the last member of this Committee to ask my questions because
so much of what my colleagues have hit on unfortunately comes
back to my home State of Alaska. The front page of the
Anchorage Daily News this morning talks about high fuel costs.
The village of Noatak is paying $15.99 for fuel. Their stove
oil is now at $16.47. Throughout Alaska, we are above $5 a
gallon, but this is not just Alaska. Ours are just more
extreme. And as you know, it has an impact on the most
vulnerable.
Unfortunately, this headline follows the headline earlier
this past week with the announcement of the cancellation of the
Cook Inlet leases, and again, if you are concerned about your
energy prices, and you are one of the 400,000 people that live
in the South Central area that rely on natural gas coming out
of Cook Inlet, and now we are seeing the articles following
about how the producers are going to be able to fulfill the
contracts for natural gas for people there in that region. They
are wondering what is going to happen on that front. But they
know that this news follows what we have seen with the actions
from the Biden Administration with regards to the NPRA, and
basically taking half of the NPRA offline. Of course, this
follows the news from the very early days of the Biden
Administration, when the ANWR leases that we had worked so hard
to help facilitate were pulled.
This follows the news with regards to the roadless,
limiting the opportunity for economic development in the
southeastern part of the state. Just yesterday, in the
Anchorage Daily News, is an article, the Feds are suing the
State of Alaska over subsistence--unprecedented to have this
federal litigation against the State of Alaska. And it just, it
is kind of this cumulative, where, again, you have to
understand where the average Alaskan is looking at the news.
They are seeing what they are paying. And they are saying this
makes no sense whatsoever. We can understand if there is an
administration that has a keen focus on climate, and we
appreciate the issues related to climate and what we need to be
doing to address matters of emission. But what's happening in
the State of Alaska is, people are being driven out of their
homes, driven out of their communities, and driven out of the
state because of these policies that clearly appear to shut
down energy production in a resource-rich state.
I want to ask about the Cook Inlet leases and about the
Ambler project. You have cited that the Cook Inlet leases were
canceled because of lack of interest from the industry during
the scoping and the draft EIS period. And yet, your Department
told my office that this decision was based off of lack of
industry comment during the scoping period, which took place in
September 2020, when we were in the middle of a pandemic, when
oil was $40 a barrel, natural gas was a buck ninety-two. The
commentary that we have received since this announcement from
the state oil and gas association, the resource development
council, the State of Alaska, and the most significant producer
in the inlet, is that they submitted their comments. They
submitted their interest and it appears that those were not
considered.
Can you share with me what kind of a reach-out the
Department actually did to determine a level of interest in
Cook Inlet?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you for the question, Senator. It
is my understanding that no specific companies expressed
interest in the sale, both over 2020 and 2021, when oil prices
had essentially recovered from the COVID impact. And while
those associations did comment, only specific companies bid on
the leases, and that is a key indication to the team of the
interest in the area.
Senator Murkowski. And again, I think that this would
follow, I think it was Senator Lee who might have mentioned the
point that if there is not an opportunity to know whether these
are even going to materialize, it makes it difficult to provide
for comment.
I am close on time and I know we have votes that have
already started. I want to ask you about the Ambler Road
because this is something that we had several members of the
Committee speak to--the issue of critical minerals. Senator
Cantwell and Senator Hickenlooper have raised it. The
Administration has been very open in embracing the fact that
this country needs to be producing more of our critical
minerals. I could not agree more. But on the same day that the
President lays down his executive order on minerals, your
Department pushed to reopen the record of decision for the
Ambler project that, while this is not a mine, this would
provide access to a mining district. And then shortly
thereafter, BLM suspends the project's right-of-way agreement,
which was granted back in 2021. And now this week, the courts
have granted your Department's request to go back and do more
NEPA analysis.
AIDEA applied for the Ambler right of way in 2015. The NEPA
review and the ANILCA 810 analysis spanned two
administrations--nearly six decades out there. And now it feels
that we are even further behind. We are hearing that DOI is
considering further actions now to cancel the right-of-way and
to stall out this project. So we are in a situation where there
is no amount of assurance that I seem to be able to gain to
tell Alaskans that BLM is not dragging their feet on this
project. So I would like your commitment that DOI will stop
being a roadblock, and ensure this project can move forward.
Again, this is helping to not only address the nation's needs
for minerals, but the President himself has stated that this is
a goal of his Administration. So I need to know that you will
work with us aggressively, that you will stick to the timelines
that will allow for this important road to continue, and as the
court has indicated that they want to require a status report
every 60 days, and continuing out, I need your commitment that
you are going to keep us informed with the same briefings at
these same intervals.
Secretary Haaland. Senator, we are always happy to reach
out and be in touch with your office. I know that we are
consistently in touch with the staff in your office and we are
more than happy to continue that. If you have issues you want
to discuss with us, we are happy to do that.
With respect to Ambler, there were two issues--a
subsistence analysis and tribal consultation. Those two things
needed to be done correctly, and so that is what we are working
on. I appreciate that. We will absolutely be in touch with you
on this issue.
Senator Murkowski. I would ask, also, that you would look
very carefully as to the activity that can be conducted during
this limited field season coming up. There are activities that
result in no disturbance that I would hope that the
Department--the BLM--would be working with those to help
facilitate that.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Welcome, Madam Secretary. Mahalo, as we say in Hawaii.
Thank you for your work to uplift all Native Americans. During
your time in Congress and now as the Secretary of the Interior,
you have repeatedly worked to appropriately include Native
Hawaiians in federal policies, regulations, and law, including
in the recent report on federal Indian boarding schools, that
has shown some light on the abuse inflicted on native children
in an attempt to kill native culture, language, and identity.
Your work demonstrates the importance of honoring the Federal
Government's trust responsibility owed to all Native Americans.
Of course, that includes American Indians, Alaska Natives, and
Native Hawaiians. I hope that you will continue to improve the
Department's efforts to appropriately include Native Hawaiians
in federal programs and the Department's work in the Native
Hawaiian community.
In particular, I hope the Department and its partners will
include Native Hawaiians in its work to address the crisis
around missing and murdered indigenous people. In honoring
National Missing and Murdered Indigenous Persons Awareness Day
on May 5th--this May 5th--the Office of Hawaiian Affairs share
the following information about Hawaii. Native Hawaiian women
and girls represent 67 percent to 77 percent of sex trafficking
victims identified in recent studies. Native Hawaiians also
represent 37 percent of reported child sex trafficking cases.
These numbers are appalling and unacceptable. I ask you to join
me in working together to address this urgent problem and to
end this abuse against Native Hawaiians.
Secretary Haaland. Yes, absolutely.
Senator Hirono. Thank you for your commitment.
Madam Secretary, I appreciate the funding that the
Administration is requesting in the FY23 budget to pay for our
obligations under the Compacts of Free Association. As you
know, should negotiations not conclude before financial
assistance provisions of the Compacts expire in 2023 and 2024,
that financial assistance will end. Thus, there is a sense of
urgency to completing these negotiations in a timely manner.
Our Committee recently held a hearing to discuss the nomination
of Ambassador Cantor to serve as Assistant Secretary of Insular
and International Affairs. Could you talk briefly about the
importance of confirming Ambassador Cantor in assuring that the
Compact negotiations be conducted, concluded, in a timely
manner, and how else can Congress help the Administration's
efforts to extend these Compacts?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you so much. And yes, the
President has nominated an excellent candidate, and we are
doing all we can to support her confirmation process. I also
recognize the priority for national security and economic
reasons as to the compact, and that is why we need to move this
forward. I met with Ambassador Yun, who is working on this
issue as well, and he feels very positive that he can move
forward with it in an expeditious manner.
It is a priority for us, Senator, and I just want to assure
you that we are treating it as such.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, because it is very clear that
these Compacts are critical aspects of our national security
and those issues come before the Armed Services Committee, but
the Compact itself and the negotiations come to you and to the
State Department, so there is sort of a bifurcation. It is
really important for everyone to be working together to make
sure that these Compacts are negotiated fairly and that we live
up to our obligations to our Compact friends.
Secretary Haaland. Absolutely.
Senator Hirono. The DOI's announcement earlier this week
that over $14 million from the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law is
being directed toward efforts to save our remaining Native
Hawaiian forest birds, and that was welcome news. In order to
prevent these species from going extinct, we must control the
mosquito population that is spreading deadly Avian malaria
throughout these populations, while also translocating and
breeding the remaining few Native birds, and unfortunately, as
in so many of these kinds of situations, time is not on our
side. Can you discuss how the FY23 budget complements those
infrastructure funds to ensure that the Department can carry
out these efforts and also can you discuss how the various
bureaus--Fish and Wildlife Service, the National Park Service,
U.S. Geological Survey--are all working together to protect
these species?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator. And yes, these--your
forest birds are incredibly important to us. We know how
important they are to the ecosystem. Everything works together.
And we are very happy to have partners with which to work to
create safe havens for the birds. That also means controlling
the mosquitoes that carry that malaria. We want to establish
captive populations that would be buying time, finding new
ground for the birds, new places for them to thrive, and of
course, developing the next generation tools to eradicate the
mosquitoes. We absolutely appreciate the cultural importance of
the birds that you have in Hawaii, and we are working on the
ground with folks there who know the landscape and who know the
ecosystem so that we can do the best job possible.
Senator Hirono. Thank you.
And Mr. Chairman, it is wonderful to have a Secretary who
understands the importance of cultural issues and environmental
protections that are all part and parcel of making sure that we
pay appropriate attention to these issues.
And thank you very much, Madam Secretary, for your
commitment.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Hirono. Thanks.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Now we are going to go to Senator Barrasso.
Senator Barrasso. Madam Secretary, honest question--do you
believe that gas prices are too high?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I completely understand the
crunch that so many Americans are under right now. I mean, I am
thinking back. I have been driving since I was about 18, so it
is, I know that we have had other, you know, I remember back
when there were lines at the gas stations and that kind of
thing. I think that Americans are still recovering from this
terrible pandemic and there are a lot of other world events
that are making things difficult for all of us.
Senator Barrasso. So it sounds like you are unwilling to
say that gas prices are too high because if you thought they
are too high, I mean, I just wonder what your Department has
actually done, specifically, to lessen this terrible pain that
Americans are suffering under these high gas prices.
Secretary Haaland. We are doing all we can, Senator. As we
have mentioned several times today, production on federal lands
is up. It is a 45 percent increase from 2020, a nine percent
increase from 2019. We are--I'm sorry, that is new drilling
that is up. But the production is also up. It is at an all-time
high, more than a billion barrels.
Senator Barrasso. Let me switch to the drought that is
hitting the West, and you mentioned it as well for your home
state. It is a major issue in the West. On May 3rd, the Bureau
of Reclamation announced that 500,000 acre-feet of water would
be released from Flaming Gorge Reservoir in Wyoming. That is
going to lead to a nine-foot drop in our reservoir's water
level. The action invokes drought contingency authority agreed
upon by the Upper Basin states to maintain water surface
elevations at Lake Powell. All the Reclamation states in the
West need water--my constituents depend on water for growing
crops, for raising cattle. They depend on it for tourism. This
is the lifeblood of these rural communities in the West. These
are not big cities. These small communities are just as
important, if not more so important. Please answer yes or no.
In making decisions regarding water in the West--and you are
from the West, from New Mexico--can you commit today that you
will actually prioritize rural communities?
Secretary Haaland. We prioritize rural communities in every
way possible, Senator. And if I could just say very quickly
that my team is in constant contact with those folks in rural
communities, the tribal governments, local governments, we know
that we have to make the best decisions possible. There just is
not enough water.
Senator Barrasso. In previous testimony----
Mr. Beaudreau. If I may.
Senator Barrasso. I do not have the time to do it, but
thanks, Mr. Beaudreau, I look forward to, if you could submit
that in writing.
Secretary Haaland, in previous testimony you have said
clean energy is a priority for President Biden. American energy
is clean energy. This chart we have is a chart of the World
Bank data that shows how much flaring takes place in a country
for each barrel of oil it produces, and that has been a big
issue of President Biden.
[The chart referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7961.027
Senator Barrasso. As you can see, America is one of the
most environmentally responsible producers in the world. But
President Biden, he wants to go to Venezuela. Let's take a
look. The intensity of the flaring that you and the
Administration and Democrats on this panel hate and say is
bad--18 times as much done in Venezuela as is done in the
United States. The flaring rate in Iran is seven times higher
than it is in the United States.
So why is President Biden begging, truly begging our
enemies for more dirty oil while you limit production of
cleaner, American oil on public lands at home in America?
Secretary Haaland. Senators, certainly the decisions such
as dealing with foreign countries are left to President Biden
and perhaps the Secretary of State.
Senator Barrasso. Well, I would recommend then that if he
continues to talk about this that you clarify for the President
and clarify his understanding because you are the Secretary of
the Interior. You have made statements about wanting to produce
clean energy and it seems that we do a much better job here in
the United States than any of the rogue nations that President
Biden seems to be going hat-in-hand to and begging for energy
to help supply our country with energy we already have right
here, but your Department and this President and this
Administration will not allow us to get out of the ground.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
I am going to have to go vote. Senator Barrasso has to go
vote. Senator Hirono will preside. We have Senator Marshall
coming up next and then we have, probably, Senator Hoeven
coming back, but Senator Hirono will close out the hearing.
Let me just say, thank you. Thank you, I know it has been
tough. It has been a tough one. And we know it, but I think you
are feeling the frustration we all have. It is just that a lot
of things do not make sense, and we do want cleaner energy. We
want a cleaner environment, but we have to use what we have to
use in the cleanest fashion to show that we can do it better
than anybody else, but also, we can walk and chew gum. Okay, we
can continue to go down two paths, investing in the cleaner
technologies that we need, and making sure what we are
producing and using now is clean. We just want security and we
want reliability, but we want to have technology and
innovation.
But I want to thank all of you and I appreciate you being
here and the response. We have always had a great relationship,
good response. I want to keep that going. We will work through
all this.
With that, Senator Hirono, you are in charge.
Senator Hirono [presiding]. Thank you.
Senator Marshall.
Senator Marshall. Okay. Well, thank you, Madam Chair, and I
want to thank the Chairman of the Committee, Senator Manchin,
for his leadership, and Ranking Member Barrasso as well. It
sounds like they have been talking to my friends and family
back in Kansas, who would certainly agree with everything that
they have said so far about this issue.
Madam Secretary, welcome. At a real high level, when you
are sitting down with your advisors, do you make it--is it the
goal to make it as hard as possible to drill new oil wells, new
gas leases on Federal lands? And if that is not the case, when
different policies are presented to you, does anyone say this
will make it harder, or this will make it easier for American
oil to be drilled on Federal lands?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, that--the fact that things are
harder or easier never enters the conversation. We are working
hard to make sure that we have a balanced approach to our
energy and----
Senator Marshall. So you are telling me that when you are
having these discussions, they do not tell you whether this is
going to make it harder or easier for access to new leases?
Secretary Haaland. No.
Senator Marshall. Okay. And is it your goal, is it your
hope that there is more or less drilling on federal lands while
you are the Secretary of the Interior?
Secretary Haaland. My goal, as I mentioned, is to have a
balanced approach to our public lands, to make sure that we are
doing the best job possible for the American people considering
that the public lands belong to them.
Senator Marshall. Does the affordability of energy, the
cost of gas at the gas pump, the cost of utilities, ever figure
into any of your decision-making process?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I know exactly what it is like
to be poor, quite frankly.
Senator Marshall. And so do I. I do too, but does it ever
enter into your policymaking?
Secretary Haaland. I bring my whole self to the job.
Senator Marshall. Okay. Your Under Secretary mentioned
panic a little bit ago. Let me tell you what panic is. Panic is
$5 a gallon gasoline when you are a single mom with two
children and you are pregnant and you do not have the gas money
to get to your OB appointment, and they call me and say, ``I
can't make it today, doctor, can we just visit over the
phone?'' Panic is when my son, with two children under the age
of 15 months, says ``Dad, my utility bill doubled this last
month.'' Is there a problem out there? That is what panic is. I
am not sure what the panic was you heard two years ago, but we
did not hear it in Kansas. I think your left-liberal media was
digging up panic, but most of the country was not panicked
then. This is panic. Today is panic. That is what is going on
across this nation.
I want to share with you what is creating the high price of
oil right now, okay? I hope that you realize that it takes a
year or two for an investment to turn into oil that is going to
actually go to the refinery. Whenever there is uncertainty,
folks are not going to invest in a business. If I was going to
write a book on business, the first chapter would be about
uncertainty, and the Federal Government specializes in
uncertainty. And you are doing it with your policies. You offer
us a lease, you pull it back. These checkerboard leases that we
talk about, it looks to me like you are purposely picking and
choosing and making it very hard for which leases that you are
going to offer. Then, when these companies spend tens of
millions of dollars to figure out, do we want to bid on it,
then you pull it away from them. And then the next uncertainty,
if we buy the lease, can we get a permit to drill? And if we
get a permit to drill, can we get a permit to get our pipelines
out there? So all this adds to the uncertainty, and that is
what's driving up the price.
The price of oil is reflective of what is going to be
happening a year from now, not yesterday. That is why we have a
decreased supply and these companies are not willing to go
forward because your policies are creating uncertainty. Do you
understand how your policies are creating uncertainty for
American businesses?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you very much for letting
us know the frustration that you are feeling and your
constituents are feeling, and we understand. And I just want to
assure you that I am absolutely following the law----
Senator Marshall. And you don't care about the uncertainty
and the cost of what you are doing to drive things up.
I am going to turn to the lesser prairie-chicken really,
really quickly. We visited about this before and the Department
is considering listing the lesser prairie-chicken. I would tell
you in my estimation that it has never been better protected
before thanks to great help between the government as well as
the private sector. What do you think the financial impact will
be on the cost of utilities in Kansas if you list the prairie-
chicken?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, what I would say is that we
always follow the science and the law on any listing questions
we recognize, and I just want to say that we really recognize
the value of the voluntary efforts to this conservation effort
and appreciate that----
Senator Marshall. But would you agree with me that listing
the prairie-chicken will drive up the cost of utilities in
Kansas?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, as I mentioned before, I am not
an economist. So I could not answer, truthfully, a question
like that.
Senator Marshall. Thank you. I yield back.
Senator Hirono. Thank you.
Senator Hoeven.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
Madam Secretary, thank you for joining us today. This
Administration, when it came into office, put a moratorium on
leasing on all federal lands, both onshore and offshore. Now,
in April, the Administration has said that it would resume
leasing, but that would only be on 20 percent of the available
acreage--only 20 percent of the available acreage. And at the
same time, you increased the royalty fees for production by 50
percent. Right now, the price of gasoline, average, in the
country is over $4.50 a gallon. Diesel is another dollar
higher. There is not a single state in the country where the
price of a gallon of gas is less than $4, and some of the
forecasts are that that price could go as high as $6, on
average, across the country this summer. Think of the impact
that has on everybody, and it hits low-income people the
hardest. And that energy cost is not just a cost they pay at
the pump, that energy cost is in every single product that they
buy, every day.
So my question is, why are you not allowing more leasing on
federal lands to help?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you so much for the
question, and of course, I have talked a few times during this
hearing about how much I understand what the majority of
Americans are going through, so thank you for that. I just want
to say that we are working toward a balance on our public
lands. The reforms that we implemented with the last--the 80
percent that you referred to, was the fact that during climate
change, of course, that enters the picture. We do not want
leasing in fragile ecosystems and so forth, but leasing can
take place near places where infrastructure already exists and
where there is a potential to find oil.
As you might know, a lot of leases currently do not really
have the potential to produce. So we worked very hard to make
sure that we were offering the lands that we felt would be of
the most use to the industry.
Senator Hoeven. Where is the balance when you are not
allowing any drilling offshore, and where onshore it is only 20
percent that you are even allowing before we even talk about
how your regulation is holding up the ability to get permits,
even on the leases that you have awarded? How is that balance
at a time when this country desperately needs the energy?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, if I could just say that there
is more than 20.6 million acres of federal land that oil
companies have on which to request permits. We have approved
more than 4,700 drilling permits since President Biden came
into office, 1,100 in this year alone.
Senator Hoeven. In many cases though, where they have those
leases, either you have not approved the permits, and then in
cases where you have, they are being held up in court, which is
why you need to continue to make leases available and permit
them so that they can drill them. The production is going down.
You understand that, right? In my state alone, we were at 1.5
million barrels a day. We are now down below 1.1 million
barrels a day. And on the BLM--and we have BLM land--and on the
BLM land lease sale that you announced, there are only 600
acres available in North Dakota. Doesn't that disenfranchise us
in North Dakota and continue to put people of this country
under strain at the pump because they cannot get oil and gas
and are under strain for all the other products that they buy?
And how is that remotely balanced? And how can you continue to
say that these leases are available when they are not, for the
reasons I just articulated?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I recognize that our country is
going through an era right now--we are barely coming out of the
COVID pandemic. There is turmoil around the world. We are doing
our best to move these issues forward in our Department.
Senator Hoeven. Excuse me, Madam Secretary, are you willing
to change what you are doing and make some of these leases
available?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I am more than happy to, as I
said, follow the law to do the work that we need to do, and we
have been doing it. I want to assure you, we have been doing
this work.
Senator Hoeven. The law provides that there is to be energy
development and leasing on federal lands, onshore and offshore.
That is what the law provides. Will you make those leases
available at a time when our country badly needs it?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, we will continue to do our work
just like we have since we came into this office.
Senator Hoeven. Which means you are not making those leases
available?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, with respect to specific
leases, I am happy to have my staff reach out to you, if that
is what you would like the answer to.
Senator Hoeven. Well, I would just submit to you, Madam
Secretary, that it is very important at this time that we
produce more energy in this country. This inflation, the price
of fuel, all these are impacting Americans in a very harsh way,
and I would ask that you consider that going forward and so
that we can produce more energy here domestically rather than
trying to get it, I mean, the Administration has gone to places
like Venezuela to try to get it. That makes no sense. We need
to do it here at home and we need your help to do that on the
federal lands.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Senator Hoeven.
Before I close this hearing, I would like to say that
blaming the Biden Administration for high oil prices ignores
the fact that oil prices are set in the world market. There is
Putin. There is Ukraine. There is COVID. During this
Committee's hearing on energy security in March, we discussed
the 9,000 lease sales on public lands and 9,000 leases that are
being unused by oil and gas companies, and the pressure the
companies feel from Wall Street to focus on stock buybacks
rather than investing in more production. Let that sink in for
a while.
The situation has not changed since March. And in the first
year of the Biden Administration, companies produced more oil
from federal lands onshore and offshore than in any year in
history. And the fact is, as noted by Madam Secretary, oil and
gas companies have more than 20.6 million acres of federal
lands under lease on which they are not producing oil and gas.
Again, let's talk about their focus on stock buybacks rather
than investing in more production.
So let's be clear. Putin has a lot to do with the gas price
hike, and it is hurting families all across the country and
across the world, and while Putin is to blame, I would say, for
the drastic hike, we have been dealing with the volatility of
oil prices for a long time. And as long as we are reliant on
oil, we will be subject to the OPEC oil cartels and affiliated
producers, like Russia. Record oil prices in 2008 solidified
Hawaii's commitment to move toward renewable power and away
from burning oil. Hawaii got it. We were the most oil import-
dependent state in the entire country. So Hawaii figured out
that we needed to make a change. So the state is now getting
over 38 percent of its power from renewable sources with the
goal of 100 percent renewable power by 2045. So as we debate
impacts on oil and gas supplies, of Russia's invasion, we also
need to keep our eyes on making our country much more energy
self-sufficient in the long term. That is where Hawaii is going
and that is what the rest of the country should pay attention
to.
So, Madam Secretary, thank you very much, and Deputy
Secretary Beaudreau and Ms. Flanagan, for coming before this
Committee.
Members will have until close of business tomorrow to
submit additional questions for the record.
The Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:28 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
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