[Senate Hearing 117-464]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-464
HUFF NOMINATION
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
to
CONSIDER THE NOMINATION OF DR. KATHRYN HUFF TO BE AN ASSISTANT
SECRETARY OF ENERGY (NUCLEAR ENERGY)
__________
MARCH 17, 2022
__________
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
Renae Black, Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West
Virginia....................................................... 1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
Wyoming........................................................ 2
WITNESS
Huff, Dr. Kathryn, nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of
Energy (Nuclear Energy)........................................ 4
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
American Nuclear Society:
Letter for the Record........................................ 50
Barrasso, Hon. John:
Opening Statement............................................ 2
Wall Street Journal article entitled ``In Chernobyl, Trapped
Staff Work at Russian Gunpoint''........................... 12
Huff, Dr. Kathryn:
Opening Statement............................................ 4
Written Testimony............................................ 6
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 33
Ladyman, Jack:
Letter for the Record........................................ 51
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
U.S. Chamber of Commerce:
Letter for the Record........................................ 52
HUFF NOMINATION
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THURSDAY, MARCH 17, 2022
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m. in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin
III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA
The Chairman. The Committee meets today to consider the
pending nomination of Dr. Kathryn Huff to be the Assistant
Secretary of Energy for Nuclear Energy. Dr. Huff has been with
the Department of Energy since last May, serving as the
Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for Nuclear Energy. In
that capacity, she performed the duties of the Assistant
Secretary on an acting basis for nearly ten months. And she has
performed those duties well. I have already had the opportunity
to work with her. She has briefed me on Ukraine's nuclear
reactors, and I have seen her commitment to the mission of the
Office of Nuclear Energy and have benefited from her extensive
knowledge of nuclear issues. So I am delighted to welcome Dr.
Huff to the Committee this morning. And I am grateful that she
has set aside her promising academic career to serve in this
important public position.
Nearly 70 years ago, President Eisenhower addressed the
United Nations on what became known as ``Atoms for Peace.''
After reviewing the deadly threat that the nuclear arms race
posed to ``not only the peace but the very life of the world,''
President Eisenhower called upon the nations of the world to
strip the atom of ``its military casing and adapt it to the
arts of peace.'' He sought to apply nuclear power ``to provide
abundant electrical energy'' to the world to serve, in his
words, ``the needs, rather than the fears of the world.''
Eisenhower's Atoms for Peace speech opened the door to our
nuclear power program and our support for nuclear power
programs in dozens of other nations throughout the world. On
the one hand, our nuclear power program has been an amazing
success. Nuclear power generates roughly 20 percent of the
nation's electricity--cleanly, safely, affordably, and
reliably. But on the other hand, our nuclear program is in
decline, and has been for some time. After peaking ten years
ago with 104 operating reactors, our nuclear fleet is now down
to 93 operating reactors. Most reactors are over 40 years old.
Only two nuclear power plants have been built and come online
since the Three Mile Island accident over 40 years ago, and
only two more are still under construction.
Nuclear power plants cost too much and take too long to
build. The existing technology is too demanding and too
unforgiving. We still haven't found the solution to the nuclear
waste problem, but we cannot afford to give up on nuclear
power. We cannot meet our climate goals and meet our energy
needs without it. We cannot afford to eliminate our existing
fleet of nuclear reactors. But they will not last forever, and
must be replaced by new, safer, and more affordable reactor
designs.
It will be Dr. Huff's job to help preserve the existing
fleet of nuclear power plants and keep them operating as long
as they safely can, but also to develop and deploy the next
generation of advanced reactor technologies needed to power the
nation well into the 21st century. And if that is not enough,
we will look to her to help find a solution to the nuclear
waste problem, which has defied solutions for over 60 years.
That is not too much to ask for, Dr. Huff. As I said at the
outset, I have worked with Dr. Huff, and I believe that she is
truly up to the task. So I want to welcome her and thank you
for being here this morning and for your willingness to serve
in this important position. I look forward to learning more
about your background, your views, priorities, and more
importantly, the status of the nuclear reactors in Ukraine, and
I look forward to supporting you. Thank you.
Now we will turn to my friend, Senator Barrasso.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO
U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks so much, Mr. Chairman. Thank
you for calling this nomination hearing, and I do concur with
your statement as well as your assessment of Dr. Huff. Dr.
Huff, great to see you again. Welcome to the Committee. You
have been nominated to serve as Assistant Secretary for Nuclear
Energy at the Department of Energy. Congratulations. I really
enjoyed our conversation last October during Nuclear Science
Week.
Dr. Huff appears to be very well qualified for this
position, holds a Ph.D. in Nuclear Engineering. Before joining
the Department, Dr. Huff was an assistant professor in the
Department of Nuclear Plasma and Radiological Engineering at
the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Dr. Huff has
also worked at the Argonne Idaho Laboratory and the Los Alamos
National Labs. So I look forward to hearing more about her
views, as you do, Mr. Chairman, on how the Department can make
America energy dominant again.
Nuclear technology is essential to meeting America's
energy, environmental, and our national security objectives. We
need to be looking for opportunities to expand our use of
nuclear energy. Innovation, to me, will always be the key to
reestablishing America's global leadership in this sector. If
confirmed, Dr. Huff will lead this effort as well. The Office
of Nuclear Energy oversees the Federal Government's efforts to
develop nuclear energy technology. The office also plays an
important role in informing the public about nuclear
technology. Now, more than ever, we need well-qualified
leadership in place at the Office of Nuclear Energy. Russia's
unprovoked invasion of Ukraine was followed by its assault on
Ukraine's nuclear facilities. The assault has generated
significant public concern about the safety of Ukraine's
reactors at a time of war. Russia's aggression reemphasizes our
government's need for nuclear experts who must understand
highly technical issues and must be capable of explaining them
to the public. This is an important job requirement for the
Assistant Secretary of Nuclear Energy. So I hope Dr. Huff can
give us insight today on the conditions of Ukraine's nuclear
reactors as we get into the questions and answers.
Last week, President Biden followed the lead of Congress
and finally banned the imports of Russian oil, Russian natural
gas, and coal, but he did not ban the imports of Russian
uranium to the United States. Russia is our third largest
supplier of uranium, meeting 16 percent of U.S. demand. I
believe we need to eliminate our dependence on Russian uranium,
and I introduced legislation earlier this week to do just that.
We also need to jump-start American uranium production. This
includes mining, conversion, and enrichment services. In
December 2020, Congress gave the Department $75 million to
establish a strategic uranium reserve. The Department of Energy
has yet to purchase uranium from U.S. producers, and I believe
we need that action now. If confirmed, Dr. Huff's first order
of business should be to work with the Department's National
Nuclear Security Administration to accelerate these purchases.
We also need immediate attention to develop an American
supply of high-assay low-enriched uranium (HALEU). This is the
fuel needed for advanced nuclear reactors like TerraPower's
Natrium reactor, which will be built in my home State of
Wyoming. It is also needed for X-energy's advanced reactor in
Senator Cantwell's home State of Washington. There are only two
sources of high-assay low-enriched uranium in the world--Russia
and the U.S. Department of Energy. We cannot allow America's
advanced reactor developers to be dependent on Russia. So I
intend to introduce legislation to first, ensure the Department
is taking the steps necessary to establish domestic enrichment,
and second, to make DOE-produced high-assay low-enriched
uranium available. It is the only way to avoid dependence on
Russia.
Dr. Huff, if you are confirmed, I hope we can work together
on this legislation. I look forward to hearing your testimony
today.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
The rules of the Committee, which apply to all nominees,
require they be sworn in connection with their testimony. So if
you would please rise, stand, and raise your right hand.
Doctor, do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are
about to give to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural
Resources shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Dr. Huff. I do.
The Chairman. Be seated.
Before you begin your statement, I will ask three questions
asked to each nominee before this Committee.
Will you be available to appear before this Committee and
other Congressional committees to represent the Department's
position and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
Dr. Huff. Yes.
The Chairman. Are you aware of any personal holdings,
investments, or interests that could constitute a conflict of
interest or create the appearance of such a conflict should you
be confirmed and assume the office to which you have been
nominated by the President?
Dr. Huff. Yes. I am sorry--no.
[Laughter.]
Dr. Huff. I wasn't listening. No.
The Chairman. There we go.
Are you involved, or do you have any assets held in a blind
trust?
Dr. Huff. No.
The Chairman. Thank you. You are now recognized to make
your opening statement, Doctor.
OPENING STATEMENT OF DR. KATHRYN HUFF, NOMINATED TO BE AN
ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF ENERGY (NUCLEAR ENERGY)
Dr. Huff. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso,
distinguished members of the Committee, it is an honor and a
privilege to appear before you as the nominee for Assistant
Secretary of the Office of Nuclear Energy. I am grateful to
President Biden and Secretary Granholm for trusting me with
this important role. I also want to thank my family, friends,
mentors, and colleagues for their support, especially my
husband, Strom, twin sister, Allison and parents, Diane and
Harold. I am deeply honored by the opportunity to lead the
Office of Nuclear Energy. Nuclear power critically underpins a
safe, secure, and sustainable global energy future, and this
office underpins nuclear energy.
I would like to share a few thoughts about the background
and experiences that have prepared me for this position. I was
born and raised in rural Texas. At 16, I was fortunate to be
admitted to the Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science, where
I had the opportunity to begin college early at the University
of North Texas. This qualified me for my first summer job as an
undergraduate researcher at the Los Alamos Neutron Science
Center. There, I fell in love with nuclear physics, neutron
science, scientific computing, and nuclear energy.
Subsequently, I received a bachelor's degree in physics at the
University of Chicago, where I conducted research in both
cosmological astrophysics and soft condensed matter physics.
Thereafter, I received my Ph.D. in nuclear engineering from the
University of Wisconsin-Madison. My dissertation work,
conducted during a fellowship with Argonne National Laboratory,
resulted in a thermal and hydrologic model of spent nuclear
fuel disposal system performance and generic geologic media.
With my Ph.D. in hand, I became a postdoctoral fellow at
the University of California-Berkeley in both the Nuclear
Science and Security Consortium and the Berkeley Institute for
Data Science. In those roles, I leveraged advanced scientific
computing techniques to contribute to reactor design, predict
reactor accident evolution, and analyze nuclear fuel cycles.
Finally, as a professor at the University of Illinois, I
established the Advanced Reactors and Fuel Cycles research
group that develops open-source software, advanced
computational models, and repeatable, extensible simulations.
Two national American Nuclear Society awards have accordingly
recognized my leadership in reproducible scientific computing
and the adoption of open-sourced software in the broader
nuclear engineering community.
I was honored to be appointed to serve in the Department of
Energy's Nuclear Energy office as its Principal Deputy
Assistant Secretary in May of 2021. In that role I had the
opportunity to lead DOE-NE efforts in multiple high-priority
activities, including the restart of a consent-based siting
process for an interim spent nuclear fuel storage facility,
implementation of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, such as
the Civil Nuclear Credit program, and a recent report on the
nuclear energy supply chain. I have also contributed to the
bold vision of a transition to nuclear power in locations and
communities around the country, including retiring coal plant
sites.
Finally, in the last few weeks of my role as a Senior
Advisor in the Office of the Secretary, I have been tightly
engaged in the interagency response to Russia's invasion of
Ukraine. With the passage of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law
and current events, it is a pivotal time for the Office of
Nuclear Energy. If I have the privilege of being confirmed and
leading the NE Office, my priorities and decisions will be
informed by science and with a clear understanding of the
importance of nuclear energy and ensuring that our energy
systems are reliable, secure, and sustainable. To meet our
domestic energy needs and rebuild U.S. leadership globally, I
will prioritize activities to preserve the existing fleet of
nuclear power plants, deploy advanced reactor technologies, and
sustainably manage spent nuclear fuel as well as work with our
international partners to support technological transfer and
American innovation.
As an applied energy research, development, and
demonstration organization, DOE-NE enables innovation, supports
unique research infrastructure, and solves cross-cutting
challenges facing the nuclear energy sector. And this is also
true for applications beyond electricity, including hydrogen
production, desalination, and other industrial applications in
the United States and abroad. NE invests in RD&D that the
private sector or other non-governmental stakeholders are
unable or unwilling to perform alone due to uncertainty, cost,
scale, or timeframes. The United States pioneered the
development of nuclear power to produce electricity in the late
1940's. Since then, U.S. leadership in nuclear energy
technology has given us the benefit of clean, reliable
electricity for seven decades. It will be my honor to help the
United States bolster and reclaim its global leadership in
nuclear energy.
Thank you again for this opportunity to speak before you
today. I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Huff follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Doctor. And now we will start our
questions, and I will begin.
My first question, Doctor, is, the U.S. and other nations
are highly dependent on Russian uranium conversion and
enrichment capabilities. The Russian state-owned company,
Rosatom, represents approximately 41 percent of global
conversion capacity and 52 percent of global enrichment
capacity. The sanctions on Rosatom could pose challenges to our
domestic fleet as well as our allies who depend on nuclear
power for their energy independence. I believe that it is
critical for our national security to build out our conversion
and enrichment infrastructure to meet the needs of our domestic
reactor fleet.
So my question is, do you believe that we should invest
heavily in building out our conversion enrichment
infrastructure to eliminate our dependence on Russia for
nuclear, and can we do it fast enough to meet our demands?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
I completely agree that it is really prescient, and the
Russian invasion of Ukraine puts into stark contrast the
importance of our energy security. I completely agree that we
need to build out capacity for a western alternative to the
Russian component of the uranium market, including conversion
and enrichment capacity. I do believe that a solution to the
current fleet's needs for uranium, as well as high-assay low-
enriched uranium for our advanced reactor fleet can be solved
with sufficient support from appropriations and a direction
from DOE.
The Chairman. Do you believe that we need a ten-year
nuclear production tax credit to ensure that these reactors do
not shut down prematurely?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
I think the provision in the Build Back Better Act that
includes a production tax credit is an excellent idea and could
certainly help with keeping our existing plants open and
inspiring new plants to come on board.
The Chairman. Where do we have the ability to get in, or
get back into this operation quickly and be able to do it
efficiently?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
There are a lot of opportunities. We have a restarting
conversion facility in Metropolis, Illinois--ConverDyn--that
can support the existing fleet. We have a pilot project in
Piketon, Ohio to support enrichment, and we have lots of
existing nuclear power plants that could be helped by the Civil
Nuclear Credit Program to stay online. We also have the
Advanced Reactor Demonstration Program and the NuScale Carbon
Free Power Project, which are standing up the next generation.
The Chairman. As nuclear waste becomes one of the greatest
challenges we have for our nuclear dependency and the need that
we have for nuclear reactors, do you have any ideas on that or
any desires that you would have that might be able to give us a
pathway forward to take care of our nuclear waste?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
It is certainly the case that in order for nuclear energy
to be truly sustainable, we must solve the waste challenge, and
among the first actions that I took in my position as the
Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary was to restart our
consent-based siting process for an interim storage facility.
With the support of Congress, we do have a consent-based siting
process that has begun with a request for information from the
public. Through that process, I expect that the grassroots
opinions of all the stakeholders in the country can help us to
formulate a strategy for our spent nuclear fuel that satisfies
the needs of our country and identifies hosts that are both
willing, able, and interested to support the hosting of such a
facility.
The Chairman. Why has the challenge become so great in
America, yet, when you look at what France is doing, and how
does France handle its nuclear waste, since they have more
nuclear reactors, I think, than about any other country?
Dr. Huff. That is right. The majority of France's
electricity comes from nuclear power and they have, for a very
long time, recycled some of their spent nuclear fuel in order
to reuse some of the remaining energy in their existing
reactors. And that has reduced the volume as well as the
lifetime of their final disposal challenge.
The Chairman. We do not operate that way?
Dr. Huff. We do not currently operate that way, no.
The Chairman. Would our reactors be able to do that?
Dr. Huff. Many new reactors can support this, as well as
our current fleet, if a reprocessing strategy were set up in
the United States.
The Chairman. Would that be a government mandate, or can
that be a decision by the commercial fleet?
Dr. Huff. I think in the way that our current nuclear
energy industry runs, it is appropriate for a commercial entity
to consider this, but at this time, the United States DOE is
not encouraging commercial reprocessing, but we are working in
our fuel cycle technologies research and development division
to find new ways to understand the economics and feasibility of
these processes.
The Chairman. If it is working somewhere else, and it is
proven it is effective, why isn't the DOE considering this?
Dr. Huff. Thank you for your question, Senator.
I also am very interested in advanced nuclear fuel cycles.
My research group, as a professor, explored many of them, and
there are a lot of nuances with regard to spent nuclear fuel
recycling and reprocessing, and in particular, in the context
of nuclear nonproliferation and the security of those nuclear
materials. At this time, we are doing our very best to identify
the research and development that will make it economically
feasible for a solely commercial entity to consider
reprocessing. However, state-sponsored programs like in France,
where the federal government owns part of the energy utility--
it makes it a different economic scenario for those
reprocessing strategies and it allows them to do very long-term
planning, also with regard to their spent nuclear fuel without
the threat of changes in the economy or even in government.
The Chairman. Well, I do look forward to working further
with you on this and learning more about it, too.
With that, we will go to Senator Barrasso.
Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Huff, last week President Biden followed the lead of
Congress and banned imports of Russian oil, Russian natural
gas, and coal. But he did not ban imports of Russian uranium to
the United States. Russia is our third largest supplier of
uranium, meeting about 16 percent of U.S. demand. Every dollar
we give to the Russian state, I believe, supports the murders
in Ukraine. Do you anticipate that this Administration will
also ban imports of Russian uranium?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
If such a ban were in place, it is our role in DOE to
ensure that there is a commercial, viable supply to ensure that
there is a continuous operation for our nuclear plants, and you
know, I, too, would agree that this, the Russian aggression
really highlights the need for ensuring that we can onshore
those capabilities.
Senator Barrasso. Do you know when you would expect the
Administration to maybe make a decision with respect to Russian
uranium?
Dr. Huff. No, sir.
Senator Barrasso. As you just said--our ability to onshore
those capabilities. In the United States, we have 93 operating
commercial reactors. The reactors almost completely rely on
imports of uranium. Our commercial reactors import nearly half
the uranium from Russia and its allies, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan,
you well know this. So do you believe uranium produced here in
the U.S., whether in private, state, or federal lands really
can play that critical role in weaning our commercial reactors
off of Russian and foreign uranium?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
I think it is critically important that we wean ourselves
off of unstable, untrustworthy sources of our critical fuels,
including uranium.
Senator Barrasso. Great.
You know, in December of 2020, this Congress gave the
Department of Energy $75 million to establish a strategic
uranium reserve. The Department has yet to purchase any uranium
for the reserve. Do you know if the Department plans to
accelerate its purchases of uranium, and if not, why not?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
Those $75 million were appropriated to the National Nuclear
Security Administration. I, if confirmed, will work with them
to accelerate the process to order requests for proposals
regarding that uranium reserve.
Senator Barrasso. With regard to this high-assay low-
enriched uranium that we know is so critical for that next
stage of nuclear reactors, currently there are only two sources
of high-assay low-enriched uranium--Russia and the Department
of Energy. Unless the Department acts swiftly, our advanced
reactors will be dependent on Russia. Senator Cantwell is here.
We are dealing with one reactor in Washington State, the other
in Wyoming. This is important to both of us. We just cannot
become dependent on Russia for that next stage of nuclear
energy development. Do you know if the Department is willing to
produce high-assay low-enriched uranium and make it available
to our advanced reactors? And if so, what steps are you taking
to ensure that both TerraPower, and X-energy in Washington
State, have the fuel that we need?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
It will be a challenge. Establishing a commercial supply of
HALEU in the U.S. is really critical for these two reactors, as
well as the reactors that will follow on their heels. In order
for those two demonstrations to be a true success, they will
need to commercialize more broadly, and I am so grateful for
your two states for being really in the lead of this vision
that we have for these reactors. You know, in Fiscal Year 2023,
the Department proposes to make available small quantities of
high-assay low-enriched uranium through limited DOE
inventories. And we are already supporting the private sector
in establishing an enrichment capability in Piketon, Ohio
through their demo.
In order to ensure robust, U.S. commercial supply chain
capabilities, it is going to involve enrichment capabilities to
expand, as well as investigating the opportunities for DOE
material, including recovery and down-blending potentially of
materials stored at Y-12 at Savannah River and completing
construction of that enrichment demonstration in Piketon.
Senator Barrasso. So a few years ago, Westinghouse entered
into an agreement to fuel Ukraine's nuclear reactors--these are
all Russian-built reactors, now using American fuel. As we look
to wean Europe off Russian energy, are there additional
opportunities for our U.S. companies to provide fuel for
Russian-built reactors?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
And that relationship between Westinghouse and the
Ukrainian reactor fleet is a really good example of the
decades-long relationships that nuclear energy can create as we
cooperate on the international scale. And those Westinghouse-
fueled reactors in Ukraine are at incredible risk right now. It
is a great concern and it does provide an opportunity for
American companies to fuel those reactors, to support them with
maintenance guidance, to contract with those companies and
other nations to ensure their safe operations and to bring
those reactors, sometimes, up to Western safety standards.
Senator Barrasso. Let me ask you one final question because
you mentioned risk. There was a headline, Wall Street Journal,
front page yesterday, ``In Chernobyl , Trapped Staff Work at
Russian Gunpoint.'' It was yesterday's front page, Wall Street
Journal.
[The article referred to follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Barrasso. The article explains that Chernobyl's
technicians and support staff have been working non-stop since
February 23. It goes on to say the workers are suffering from
extreme fatigue, dizziness, nausea, headaches--terrible
headaches, it said. What can you tell us about the current
status of Chernobyl and Ukraine's other nuclear reactors?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
This is a very serious situation with regard to
humanitarian issues around Chernobyl--operators and staff, as
well as a nuclear safety issue. It is reckless to conduct any
military activity in the vicinity of a peaceful nuclear
facility. In the context of Chernobyl, as you know, in the
early moments of the invasion, Russian forces moving through
that exclusion zone kicked up some radiological material, but
ultimately it was localized, it was kept fairly low. We monitor
that in our emergency operations center in DOE and it has since
died down, but the remaining concern is that during that
invasion, those individuals operating the Chernobyl shut-down
reactor and its spent fuel pools have been trapped since then.
It is of the utmost importance that any nuclear facility be
managed by well-rested, well-fed, well-cared-for individuals.
And it is critically important to me that we pursue an
international strategy to hold each other accountable in the
context of these peaceful nuclear facilities during a conflict.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
And now we have Senator Cantwell.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Nuclear energy has a long history, obviously, in the State
of Washington. Today, we have over 12,000 nuclear skilled
scientists, engineers, and craft workers in our state. The
Columbia Basin, Washington State University campuses, and the
tri-cities offer bachelor's, master's and Ph.D.s in nuclear-
related fields, and we have various apprentice programs, not to
mention the Pacific Northwest Lab that conducts over $400
million in nuclear-related R&D each year. So I wanted to ask
you, Dr. Huff, a couple of questions.
Obviously, turning specifically to the Advanced Reactor
Demonstration Program at DOE, we are excited to see, as my
colleague, Senator Barrasso mentioned, investments in various
states to look at this. The Department received $80 million
each under the Advanced Reactor Demonstration Program, but to
see these projects through completion, we need firm support
from DOE and Congress to deliver on the funding request in a
consistent way. So I want to make sure--how integral do you
think this funding is? Can you commit to this Committee that
you believe that this program should get funded and supported?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator Cantwell, and in particular
for the leadership of Washington in this endeavor to prove
American innovation. I am excited to say I actually will be
visiting that facility next week in my role as Senior Advisor
to the Secretary. I am looking forward to seeing the site on
which this reactor will be built.
I absolutely agree with you that funding, and particularly
consistent funding for this program, is absolutely essential.
The two Advanced Reactor Demonstration Program demos were
mostly fully appropriated through the Bipartisan Infrastructure
Law under the Office of Clean Energy Demonstrations and in the
Office of Nuclear Energy with our previous appropriations and
future small appropriations requests--hope to be able to fund
those in a consistent manner. It will require some continuous
appropriations over the next few years to supplement that major
bill provision, but we expect that they will make great
progress with the oversight we are standing up, the support we
are giving those projects, and the commitment to these two
crown jewels in our portfolio. So absolutely, Senator.
Senator Cantwell. Okay, great. I like the last part,
absolutely. So I just wanted to get to a short yes----
Dr. Huff. I'm sorry.
Senator Cantwell [continuing]. That you support the
program, just because, you know, it is going to test us on the
appropriation side, but I think it is well worth it.
Senator Barrasso also mentioned this HALEU issue and I
agree with him. I do not want to be dependent on the Russians
for this. And so, what are we going to do to diversify and take
high-assay low-enriched uranium and figure out what to do with
the spent fuel side? What are your thoughts there?
Dr. Huff. Yes, so through our HALEU Availability Program,
already supported by appropriations in the previous year, and
in our future requests will be support for standing up the
HALEU Availability Program in alignment with the responses that
we have now received from the request for information that we
released early this year. Those responses are really
informative about how to design a program to encourage
commercial operation of high-assay low-enriched uranium, and we
look forward to being able to stand up that program very soon.
Additionally, I will say, you know, in the context of spent
nuclear fuel around advanced reactors, we are restarting the
consent-based siting process for interim storage for commercial
fleet fuel as well as considering the future of our integrated
waste management system. And for advanced reactors, of course,
they are not under the standard contract, and so continued
conversations with the advanced reactor developers in the
United States will need to identify the appropriate legal
framework in which they fit into our bigger plan for the rest
of the commercial spent nuclear fuel----
Senator Cantwell. Well, since you brought that up twice.
Dr. Huff. Yes.
Senator Cantwell. And since I spend a great deal of my
political time trying to get resource funding for Hanford
cleanup, which is not really a state responsibility, it is a
national responsibility. And as the footprint across Savannah
River and other places has shrunk, I find sometimes less of a
coalition than used to exist. It used to be that the Lamar and
Savannah River and all these people would be like, ``yes, we
need this budget.'' Now, people just--it is more down to
Hanford, but nonetheless, we need to clean it up, and so that
makes that very challenging.
I do think, since you have brought this up twice now, I
know it is not really your portfolio. I personally believe you
should separate defense from commercial waste. I think you are
going to get to an answer faster for a big chunk of the
process. I am not saying do not ever deal with commercial. I am
just saying that, you know, we could make some very rapid
decisions about the defense waste cleanup that I would think
would help this process.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Thank you very much, Senator
Cantwell.
Senator Lee.
Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Huff, in 2019, American uranium production fell to its
lowest level since 1949. Now, unfortunately, that means that
Russia and Russian-allied countries provide around 46 percent
of our uranium. Despite that alarming statistic, the Biden
Administration recently failed to include uranium on its list
of critical minerals. This worries me. Do you think this level
of reliance on nefarious sources could pose a serious strategic
risk to the United States?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator. Yes.
Senator Lee. Do you think the U.S. would be better served,
strategically speaking, by adding uranium to the list of
critical minerals?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
I do definitely agree that uranium is an incredibly
important material and the list of critical minerals has, as
you noted, been changed to not include fuel minerals, and so
therefore, uranium is not included. In the Department of
Energy, we have the authority to consider a lot of supply chain
issues, and that includes critical materials, which is a
distinct category from critical minerals, and the Secretary has
some authority to consider materials, particularly fuel
materials that are important regardless of their
categorization. And I would say, that is where we are and there
is no question in my mind that we will continue to focus on
uranium as an incredibly important fuel, much like we do with
all the other fuels, and yes, Senator, thank you for this.
Senator Lee. Thank you.
What additional steps do you think we ought to be taking in
order to secure a domestic fuel cycle for uranium?
Dr. Huff. Thank you for this concern. I think, you know,
there are a number of clear, forward-moving steps. The first is
that, you know, as we look toward replacing the vacuum that
Russia will leave in exiting the market for uranium, both for
the existing fleet and the potential future fleet, it will be
very important that we have a source of raw uranium that is
mined and milled from a stable nation, either here domestically
or elsewhere--perhaps our allies in Canada or elsewhere.
Second, a conversion facility expansion. Right now, we have one
conversion facility in the United States and it is restarting.
This is in Metropolis, Illinois at the ConverDyn facility. You
know, if one wanted to expand our conversion capacity, you
know, it will have to be more than that, and it currently is
only restarting because of this uranium economic situation that
you described earlier. It could potentially be incentivized,
and other entities could be incentivized to restart our
conversion capability rapidly as long as there is a signal from
the Federal Government and from the industry.
Then, enrichment capability is the final piece, and we have
a demo in Piketon, Ohio, but with that and the HALEU
Availability Program, it will not get us to the space that we
need on its own. We need an aggressive, forward-moving
appropriation targeted toward a plan for availability of both
low-enriched uranium and high-assay low-enriched uranium in
order to support our existing and our future fleets.
Senator Lee. Great.
By the way, on the fuel minerals point, there is a
provision in the Energy Act of 2020 that allows for the
inclusion in the list of these minerals any additional item
that might be suggested by any other agency. And so, there is a
way to deal with this under that. And I do think it should have
been included.
I just met with the Utah Associated Municipal Power Systems
group, UAMPS as we call them back home, whose small modular
reactor project is making tremendous progress. I am hopeful
that with efforts like those at the Nuclear Regulatory
Commission to create a generic EIS, we will be able to quickly
and safely deploy much more reliable nuclear energy. What other
regulatory updates do you think might help clear the path for
clean, reliable nuclear energy?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission is the gold standard in
the world for nuclear safety and security. And I am confident
that over the last many years they have been improving their
processes with a focus on our next generation nuclear reactors.
And I think the NuScale project is an excellent example. They
currently hold in their hands a design certification that they
have been able to take to other nations. One of my first trips
was to Romania, and in Romania they are very interested in
purchasing a NuScale reactor. They might even be the first. And
I think the NRC has demonstrated the beginning of what is
certain to be good applications toward advanced reactor
certification.
Senator Lee. Thank you very much.
The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Huff, welcome. Thank you for talking with me yesterday.
And let me ask you this, and we talked about this--if there is
anything that the failed Yucca Mountain project has taught us,
it is that a consent-based approach is a necessary path forward
to solve our nation's dilemma of finding a final repository for
nuclear waste. And consent must be at the center of any
conversation related to the storage of high-level waste.
So my first question to you is, are you committed to
effectively incorporating input from states as you and the
Department move forward with consent-based siting?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
I really appreciated our conversation and previous
conversations with your staff around this topic. I appreciate
your support for the consent-based siting approach. And yes,
ma'am, I absolutely do believe that we will be incorporating
lots of state engagement. We have already received lots of
responses from our request for information, and it is going to
be, hopefully, very productive creating a program.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, and I was just going to
ask you to elaborate on the approach. Talk a little bit about
the RFI and what you are doing right now, or what DOE is doing.
Dr. Huff. Thank you, ma'am. I am happy to do so. We put
together an approach that is phased, deliberate, and starts
with a request for information, which has already been
published, opened. We shared in multiple webinars with the
public and lots of stakeholders. It is now closed, and the
staff and Office of Nuclear Energy are actively assessing all
of the responses we received, integrating them and summarizing
them. A summary report of those responses will be forthcoming
and it will also inform the way that we move forward. And while
we have a sort of general idea of how we intend to move forward
with the consent-based siting process, both with regard to our
international partner successes and looking toward our past
failures, we are looking forward to being able to incorporate
all that into the forward-moving plan, the next steps of which
will likely be to release a funding opportunity announcement to
support communities that are interested in learning more about
the consent-based siting process, their potential roles in
interim storage facility siting, and really anything having to
do with spent nuclear fuel.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
We also talked about this--in 2018, the previous
administration had secretly shipped a shipment of plutonium
intended for weapons production to Nevada to be stored at the
Nevada National Security Site. I, along with the State of
Nevada, reached an agreement with DOE to have this plutonium
removed as soon as possible. So can you talk a little bit about
whether DOE is on schedule to conform to the settlement
agreement with the State of Nevada?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, ma'am. I will assure you that I
checked this morning with the National Nuclear Security
Administration, which is responsible for that movement and that
agreement, and they assured me that they are currently meeting
milestones and are on time with regard to the agreement that
they have made.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. And I appreciate your
comments earlier too about how we address surplus plutonium in
this country.
Let me jump to one final thing. We only have so much time.
There has been a lot of talk about advanced reactors and
nuclear technology that has potential for our country. And some
experts have raised concerns over the push for advanced nuclear
reactor technology, noting that the U.S. is lacking
consideration for the back end of the fuel cycle. So in
layman's terms, can you please describe the waste implications
of the new advanced reactors and how that will affect the
search for a solution to the waste disposal?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, ma'am. It is definitely a top-of-mind
for our Fuel Cycles Office within the Office of Nuclear Energy
as well as the Waste Disposition Office within the Office of
Nuclear Energy to ensure that all commercial reactors have a
spent nuclear fuel solution. And our research over the last
many decades has predicted the future forms of fuel. Advanced
reactors can reduce the volume of fuel, and some of them can
reduce the lifetime of the fuel that, you know, the lifetime of
the required management of that fuel. And we are working to
ensure that there are generic solutions to packaging and
transportation as well as disposal toward those fuels that can
incorporate all of the needs.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Doctor, thank you. Thank
you again for taking the time with me. Thank you for your
willingness to serve.
Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Now we have Senator Cassidy.
Senator Cassidy. Hey, Dr. Huff, thank you. When we passed
the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill, I had this vision. Let me
start over. For all these things to work, there has to be a
functioning business model. So if we are going to decarbonize,
you need to somehow make direct air capture functional. You
need to make advanced nuclear functional. You need to make
decarbonization of the supply chain functional. And so I had
this kind of dream that we would--in Louisiana, of course--you
could have a direct air capture next to a carbon capture
utilization sequestration using our geology as the place to
store, but that energy for the direct air capture and for an
associated industrial complex would come out of an advanced
nuclear.
There is a lot of regulation right there, right? And
regulations can just strangle a project, kill it and bury it,
deeper than we hoped to bury the carbon. What can you do to
make it work?
Dr. Huff. Senator, I think we will learn a lot in the very
near term about what it takes to site, license, and execute
very complex engineering projects. I think we are up to it. And
I think in the context of our nuclear regulator, you know, they
are considering all kinds of issues around things like this,
including different ways to accelerate their processes, and we
work closely with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, though
they must remain an independent body.
And so what we can do in the Department of Energy is to
support those regulatory decisions with robust science and
target those scientific research and development endeavors to
ensure that the NRC, for example, has the science it needs to
make decisions quickly, with confidence. And so that has
generally been the approach with the Department of Energy's
Nuclear Energy Office, is to fund the kind of research that can
inform the regulator so that they do not have to wonder about
how to make a decision with--they have the evidence that they
need to make decisions quickly. And we have seen that work with
the lifetime extensions of our nuclear power plants that were
largely based on a lot of research somewhat funded by the
Office of Nuclear Energy.
Senator Cassidy. Okay. Speaking of those, our nation has 93
operating nuclear reactors--about 20 percent of our
electricity, two of them in Louisiana.
Dr. Huff. Yes, sir.
Senator Cassidy. River Bend and Waterford. So the Civil
Nuclear Credit program, passed as part of the Bipartisan
Infrastructure Bill, attempts to extend the life of these
existing facilities, giving significant flexibility to DOE to
establish and operate. How do you see DOE using this program?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
This has been a very large lift because of the aggressive--
and importantly so--timelines of the Civil Nuclear Credit
program--the Civil Nuclear Credit program with $6 billion over
the course of the next five, even 15 years, if you consider the
implications of the timelines of the auctions. We are in a
place that we have released a request for information for the
Civil Nuclear Credit program with a sketch of what we believe
that program should look like--the guidelines for becoming a
certified plant. Not all plants will be eligible for
participating in the bidding process. And that request for
information was a sketch of what we believe to be the likely
forward movement. We have received a lot of responses. We are
continuing to receive responses. And that will be informing our
program moving forward, which has, again, as I said, some very
tight deadlines in the very near term, but, and after
certification, reactors follow with a bidding process.
All this was laid out in the law, and our group in the
Office of Nuclear Energy working toward this is actively
pursuing really rapid turnarounds with a secondary sort of
balanced approach to ensure that it is paired with sufficient
oversight to ensure that this money is spent with the taxpayer
in mind, because it is a lot of money and it is important to
keep these plants open first of all, but it is also important
to responsibly manage the money of the taxpayer.
Senator Cassidy. Going back to the synergism I was hoping
to establish earlier to help the business model, if you will.
The Nuclear Energy Office is currently developing hydrogen
production facilities. So how do you see this interacting--the
hydrogen production with our nuclear?
Dr. Huff. I am personally incredibly interested in hydrogen
production. As a researcher, I was involved in many nuclear-
related hydrogen production research endeavors, and I have to
say, I am excited by the work that we are doing in the Office
of Nuclear Energy along with EERE, the Energy Efficiency and
Renewable Energy Office, to ensure that the Office of Clean
Energy Demonstrations has a plan for the broad range of
hydrogen programs that it will be responsible for, and nuclear
energy will be playing a central communicative role in the
planning of this program--the publicity around ensuring that
the right folks apply to take advantage of this program. I
really think that nuclear has a special role to play in
hydrogen because it is a clean way to produce heat.
Not all renewables produce heat. There are very few clean
energy technologies that directly produce heat, and heat can
make hydrogen production really efficient. So the----
Senator Cassidy. Heat independently of electrons?
Dr. Huff. Yes, the most efficient way to produce hydrogen
is when you combine electricity and heat, like in high
temperature electrolysis, high temperature electrolysis being
more efficient in an energy return on investment unit than low
temperature electrolysis. So the more heat you can put into the
reaction, the more hydrogen you can get out per electron.
Senator Cassidy. That sounds great. I yield back. Thank
you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Now we have Senator Marshall.
Senator Marshall. Thank you, Chairman. Dr. Huff, again,
congratulations on your nomination. We look forward to working
with you.
I think the Chairman and the Ranking Member have both
pointed out the challenges when we depend upon a rogue foreign
nation for critical, critical fuels in both the mining and the
enrichment process. This may be too broad of a question for
today, but I am asking, would you be able to prepare us a list
of the rules, the regulations, the laws that have gotten us to
this point? Why are we here? We can talk about tax credits, but
I am still afraid that the same barriers why American companies
have left are still out there, and there has been an all-out
attack on nuclear energy. Do you have any quick response to
that, or is it too broad?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator. I think it is an incredibly
interesting question, and my quick response will be to add
that, you know, in a lot of cases our competition, globally, is
with state-sponsored programs of nuclear energy, even state-
sponsored programs of other energy systems.
Senator Marshall. Right.
Dr. Huff. As I am sure you are aware. And you know, I think
it would be a really interesting exercise, and I look forward
to working with you on that.
Senator Marshall. Yes, I think that there are rules, there
are policies that have got us here that are still in place.
Next, let us go back to the HALEU fuels again. Several
people have talked about this. I just want to specifically ask
about what the plan is. We have a $4 billion investment in
those Advanced Reactor Demonstration projects. I think we were
totally counting on Russian fuel. Do we have any availability
in this nation to get those HALEU fuels?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
This concern is a top-of-mind for the Department of
Energy's Office of Nuclear Energy, and while we do have some
appropriations for our HALEU Availability Program, there are
limits to the speed with which enrichment capability in the
United States can be stood up, particularly in the context of
the potential need for expanding enrichment in order to support
Russian exit from the nuclear fuel market. We in DOE do have
some sources of fuel, and we are considering all conceivable
options, including recovery and down-blending of materials
stored at Y-12 and Savannah River, potentially in a cost-share
program between NE and NNSA, completing the construction of our
current enrichment demo in Piketon, Ohio, and supporting,
through the HALEU Availability Program, commercial
establishment of other kinds of HALEU supply chain issues
around both conversion enrichment, but also deconversion and
fuel--fabrication.
Senator Marshall. Okay, let us talk about U-233 just for a
second. While we are destroying it, China is making it. And I
think that you would agree that we had some inherent value, and
I believe there are some legal reasons that you are saying we
have to destroy it. And I am hoping that the Committee here
might be able to look into that as well. Can you just address
U-233 for a second?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
Yes, Congress has directed the Office of Environmental
Management to dispose of the Uranium 233 that is at Oak Ridge
National Laboratory. That material, having some proliferation
concerns, has increased the security stance of Oak Ridge
National Laboratory, and Congress decided some time ago and
directed the Department to dispose of that material in order to
reduce the security stance of Oak Ridge National Laboratory and
reduce the costs of that security stance, which are
significant. And so any change to the plan would require
Congressional direction.
Senator Marshall. Right. So I do hope the Committee will be
responsive in helping us to see if there are solutions--safe,
responsible solutions.
Dr. Huff, every week I read the Wall Street Journal,
there's China, building nuclear power across the world and
building their influence. Why is China kicking our butt when it
comes to building nuclear power plants across the world? Why
aren't they American?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
I am so glad you asked this question. It is very important
to note how our competitors approach commercialization of their
technologies abroad. And you know, it is not the same as the
way we approach it. They typically come with a more
comprehensive package for equity and financing, as well as
potentially fuel supply, and takeback, and it makes it a very
attractive package despite the downsides. And I will say, you
know, the opportunity that this presents us with today is the
following--the scales have been lifted off the eyes, I believe,
of the world community with regard to dealing in energy
technologies with unreputable and untrustworthy suppliers. And
the United States always has had a gold standard in safety and
security and is a trusted partner of many of those nations. I
think that has more value today than it did a few months ago.
And so we do have an opportunity to reinvigorate those
relationships and present our American companies and our
American nuclear reactor designs as an alternative to insecure
choices. But it will require some financing approach that is
competitive in the world market and, you know, I would assure
you that there is a strong interagency conversation about what
it may take to provide, for example, EX-IM, or the Development
and Finance Corporation, with the kind of equity approach that
might be necessary to provide packages of this nature.
Senator Marshall. Thank you so much. We look forward to
working with you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Hickenlooper.
Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Dr. Huff, what
a pleasure to have you with us, and I cannot tell you how
impressed I am with all that you have done, and I have several
friends, as women, who came up through the ranks of science
into space engineering, or nuclear engineering, and I know that
sometimes there were obstacles, and I appreciate how hard you
must have worked to get to where you are. I am one who thinks
that where you are is exactly the right place, and something we
definitely need.
Obviously, there has been a lot of renewed interest in
nuclear fission. Billions of dollars of private investment,
well, just in the last few months really. And I think there is
a significant overlap of technical knowledge and expertise
between fusion and fission. Fusion is housed in the Office of
Science's Fusion Energy Sciences program, and is outside the
Office of Nuclear Energy. How would you go about fostering
collaboration between the research, just to share best
practices, make sure the new findings help each other? I mean,
is there anything that we in the Senate could do to help foster
that?
Dr. Huff. Senator, thank you for your kind comments. I
appreciate that.
And I think you have really hit on something so prescient,
that even right now, there is a fusion summit happening at the
White House this very moment with many members of the Office of
Nuclear Energy in attendance in order to help foster that
collaboration. It is very important that the lessons that the
nuclear energy industry and commercialization of nuclear
fission technology has learned over the last many decades be
leveraged so that it does not all have to be relearned in the
context of fusion, and that includes things like the regulatory
environment and, you know, how to really support the regulator
in decisionmaking as well as, you know, materials science and
materials qualification issues--even just the business plan of
operating in a space where you are both regulated and concerned
about export control, but also simultaneously interested in
real clean energy distribution.
I think we have a lot to share with the Office of Fusion
Energy Sciences in the Office of Science, as well as ARPA-E,
which has a really forward-leaning approach to fusion research,
and I think it is really, really exciting to see--I think 19
fusion startups right now. Anyway, I am excited about it, as
you are too.
Senator Hickenlooper. Yes. Again, I keep thinking that we
are now just beginning what 100 years from now we will look
back on and say was the ``great transition.'' This was that
transition where we actually did take measured steps, but
accelerate toward a clean energy future.
We are obviously--Colorado--and you will have to forgive
the one required parochial question, but we have strong
programs in nuclear energy at not just the Colorado School of
Mines, but at Colorado State University, and more specifically
the University of Colorado Boulder. The Nuclear Energy
University Program recently received its own line item, and $70
million in funding in the Omnibus. I am sure that caught your
attention. Can you comment on the importance of this program
and how it might support nuclear education activities, not just
in Colorado, but in other states?
Dr. Huff. Thank you, Senator.
There is no topic closer to my heart than the education of
nuclear engineers. I am a professor on an unpaid leave of
absence from a nuclear engineering program in Illinois, and the
Nuclear Energy University Program is the lifeblood of nuclear
energy and the training of our next-generation, innovative,
scientific workforce in this field. The program is so important
that it is critical that it have its own line item. I think it
is a wise choice to have it stand alone, in part so that it is
not seen as a tax on other programs, and so that it can have
the oversight and direction appropriate to a line item on its
own. Students receive important scholarships and fellowships.
Faculty receive important research and development funding.
Even national laboratories benefit from the nuclear energy
university programs because faculty proposing research are
encouraged to incorporate the national laboratories and up to
20 percent of the funding from any R&D award in the NEUP
program can go to either industry or the national laboratories,
and routinely does.
Senator Hickenlooper. Mr. Chair, isn't it astounding and
wonderful to have a witness who is so in command of every
aspect, every facet of the program that she is going to run.
Anyway, I have other questions on some of the other--not just
electrical power. I will submit them on a written form.
Senator Barrasso. Very unique for this Administration.
Senator Hickenlooper. What was that?
Senator Barrasso. Very unique for this Administration.
Senator Hickenlooper. Oh no, my gosh, you turn everything
into partisan politics. I am so shocked. Mortified.
[Laughter.]
The Chairman. I think we have unanimous consent on this one
though.
Senator Hickenlooper. Yes, I hope so.
The Chairman. Senator Risch.
Senator Risch. It was so obvious, he could not help
himself.
[Laughter.]
Senator Risch. Well, Dr. Huff, I am not going to apologize
like Senator Hickenlooper did about the parochialism of my
questions. As you know, Idaho is the home of the Idaho National
Laboratory, the birthplace of nuclear energy in the world, and
the flagship lab for nuclear energy, not only for America, but
for the world, and I want to thank you for taking the time to
talk with me about it. And again, I was impressed with your
knowledge of the operation, and as Senator Hickenlooper pointed
out, your background on all of this. By now, I think most
people have figured out that you are the right person for this
job, and I hope we will be able to move you through as quickly
as we can. And it is an important position and one that I think
we can all agree on in a very bipartisan basis that you ought
to be leading.
I have some parochial questions on the Idaho National Lab,
but I am going to submit those for the record so that we do not
take up too much time.
But I was interested, being where I am on the Foreign
Relations Committee and on Intel, in your comments about the
activity that went on about the nuclear facilities in Ukraine
during the invasion. Senator Manchin and I are going to
introduce the International Nuclear Energy Act next week,
probably, and it has been vetted, I think, probably with you
and with a lot of different places that we are going to try to
move forward, but that may be a place, and I am going to
discuss this with Senator Manchin, but it may be a place where
we could urge the Administration through international agencies
to create some sideboard sensitivities, war crimes, or what
have you, for activity that an invading force or any force that
takes place around a nuclear reactor. That ought to be
absolutely off limits, like hospitals or like kindergartens or
anything else. It really ought to be off limits. I mean, we all
held our breath that evening when the shooting started around
there. And I was amazed that we dodged the bullet that we did
there. I think probably it is interesting, as I understand it,
the facility was hit and probably it is a testament to the kind
of hardening that they do around these facilities that we
didn't have a real catastrophe there.
So in any event, I would appreciate any other thoughts you
might have in that regard, but I think it is appropriate that
the international community come together to recognize this.
Your thoughts?
Dr. Huff. Senator--Senators--I am thankful for your
leadership in this moment. I think it is precisely these kinds
of actions that can demonstrate the American capability to be a
leader on the world stage in this place, and I wish you great
luck in your endeavor here.
With regard to the nuclear plants, you are right, western
style containment buildings, as we saw at Zaporizhzhia, are
hardened against incredible odds--the impact of a jet,
including the following jet fuel fire are, you know,
demonstrated at Sandia National Laboratory and through
incredible modeling, and we are lucky to say that those are
very robust toward accident. They are not designed to withstand
repeated, intentional--like sophisticated military assault--nor
is a kindergarten or a hospital. And it is incredibly important
that we establish that they are off limits. Risky, reckless
behavior in a conflict zone near any peaceful nuclear facility
should not be allowed and is entirely unacceptable on the world
stage.
Senator Risch. Well, I could not agree more. It was
absolutely astounding when that started to happen. I could not
imagine the lack of control that Russian administration had on
that. You would think they would have those things on a map and
mapped out just like hospitals and schools and everything else
to stay away from it. So Senator Manchin and I will talk about
this a little bit and see if we cannot get something into the
bill to explore it on the international stage. Obviously, the
need is there at this point.
Well, look, we have a lot of idiosyncrasies on the
agreements that the State of Idaho has with the DOE. Obviously,
there is, when you have those kinds of agreements, there is
always a bit of friction, but we have been very successful in
working through those at the lab. I look forward to doing that
again. And I am going to have some questions for the record in
that regard.
But in any event, thanks again for stepping up to do this.
Most people with your kind of capabilities are not particularly
fond of working in government, so we are glad that you are
stepping forward to do that, and with that, thank you very
much, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Murkowski.
Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just going
through my list of questions here to make sure that I am not
doubling up on what other members have asked, but I appreciate
the opportunity to have this meet and greet here today and the
time that you have spent with my staff on this. Obviously,
touching on issues of great importance always, but now in view
of Russia's invasion, the situation in Ukraine, and what that
means for a source of uranium supply, it assumes even higher
proportions of priority.
So there has been a great deal asked already about access
to the HALEU fuels and the fact that the only commercial
supplies of HALEU now are coming from Russia--clearly a threat
to energy security, economic security, and, I believe, national
security. So I think I heard you say that when it comes to
appropriations, we need an aggressive forward-moving
appropriation in this area. So last year, the HALEU program's
budget was $33 million. Some believe that is insufficient, and
a mark closer to $200 million is needed. What do you classify
as aggressive, forward-moving? If you can speak to that,
please?
Dr. Huff. Yes, ma'am. You know, I think a lot of our
planning has, in the past, before the Russian aggression toward
Ukraine, recognized that there is an opportunity for the first
couple of plants to be fueled potentially by that commercial
source, and now that is entirely off the table. It changes the
equation. As we think about our HALEU Availability Program, our
requests will increase over time, but I think it will compete
almost immediately with the broader existing reactor and need
for uranium. And so they both rely on enrichment and conversion
capacity. And because of this increase in the potential need
for us to have additional domestic enriched uranium to support
not only the future fleet, but also the existing fleet, you
know, we are working together with the interagency on a plan
that can quantify some of this. We actually have some of the
folks from the Office of Nuclear Energy who have been working
on this topic just behind me, and I would be happy to work with
you on nailing down some of the details, but it will be in the
many hundreds of millions, and possibly in the over a billion
range, I would say, if we want to be very serious about
standing up a competition that has historically been supplied
by state-sponsored programs.
Senator Murkowski. Well, I appreciate that, and understand
it is hard to give a number to it, but I think a recognition
that we need to be doing more, and to use your words, ``be
aggressive on this,'' is important.
I had an opportunity just this morning to speak to the NEI
Board that is in town, and part of my comments were thanking
them for participating in legislative hearings in the State of
Alaska on what is going on with providing for support for our
smaller reactors, our microreactors. As you probably are aware,
Eielson Air Force Base is planning to host DOD's first mobile
microreactor. We are very excited about that. Within the Copper
Valley area there is an effort underway now to look at a
project potentially in Valdez. These are all expected to come
online by 2030.
One piece of disappointing news in this area though was
that we have heard numerous complaints about the NRC permitting
process, most recently from Oklo with rejection of their
application. I know that that had been one that had been
looking to the Eielson project. And so if you can, in my
remaining time, speak to the opportunities that we have in
Alaska. I do not know if you have had an opportunity to be up
there to understand how this might help, not only from a
military installation perspective, but for remote resource
development projects that are totally off-grid, to small
villages who have, again, no source of energy outside of
diesel-powered generation for whom these could be extraordinary
opportunities. So you have grant opportunities and community
engagement that needs to go on, but also this issue with better
commercialization of our microreactors and to the NRC. So there
is a super-loaded question there for you.
Dr. Huff. Thank you, ma'am. Yes, I agree that the
opportunity for microreactors is really uniquely suited to
these kinds of remote applications and air force bases,
especially where the Federal Government can stand as a testbed
for these technologies. And I would really love to someday come
to Alaska and see some of these locations. I haven't had the
chance yet, but I understand that the sort of whole space of
Arctic energy is such a unique and interesting space. It is
different than the remaining mainland.
On your Oklo question, with regard to NRC, you know, I
understand that their application was--they ceased review
without prejudice and I do hope that Oklo and other energy
technologies will, you know, continue to apply to the NRC. My
understanding is that they certainly have been declined without
prejudice, and so they have the opportunity to resubmit and----
Senator Murkowski. But do you think that that is a setback
for not only Oklo, but others?
Dr. Huff. So you know, I am encouraged by the certification
of the NuScale reactor by the NRC as well as the progress NRC
is making thinking about the two Advanced Reactor Demonstration
awardees, and I am confident that the NRC has the capability to
review these applications, but it is also the gold standard in
nuclear safety across the world, in large part because it does
hold a very high standard. A high standard, but I think the
nuclear energy industry can meet it.
Senator Murkowski. Good.
Mr. Chairman, thank you. Thank you, Dr. Huff.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
And now we have Senator James Lankford, in person. Senator
Lankford.
Senator Lankford. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Dr. Huff, thanks
for being here. Thanks for going through the process on it.
I want to pick up where Senator Murkowski just left off
dealing with the permitting issue on this. It has to be a
consideration of any entity, any region, to examine not only
what is the best carbon footprint on this, but also what is the
best value in it and what is the most predictable. The
permitting for nuclear is exceptionally unpredictable at this
point. So my question for you is, how do we fix the permitting
process, and let me just put out a hypothetical--what is the
right length of time it should take to actually get a permit to
actually start construction and to be able to take off right
now? Because if somebody is going to say, ``great, I am going
to invest $8 to $12 billion, and it is going to be over the
next 15 years before I can actually get started.'' That is a
pretty long time period to actually get ramped up to be able to
do it. What is the length of time you think it should take to
get a permit and how do we actually fix the permitting process?
Dr. Huff. Thank you very much, Senator. I think you have
touched on a number of things. I will start on predictability.
Not only is it critically important that the timeline be
predictable, but also the costs, right? And I think this is
very, very problematic for the investors you have described as
well. You know, the Department of Energy's role in the context
of regulation is that we generally support the Nuclear
Regulatory Commission by supporting research that can inform
their decisions, by guiding advanced reactor innovation in such
a way in collaboration with NRC that it can be licensed. But it
is not my role to pick dates and deadlines, but I will say to
you, I agree that it is critically important for
competitiveness, not just in nuclear energy, but all energy
technologies that, you know, we be able to have some predictive
timelines. And I would also just say, you know, I think your
point is well taken with regard to the possibility for these
technologies to have economics at all in a reasonable business
model, to have some real surety from, you know, the regulator
and from the Federal Government, support that they are likely
to receive.
And so I hope we can work together on figuring out a way
for DOE to work better with NRC with regard to this topic.
Senator Lankford. So as you work with NRC and you are
making advice to them, what advice would you give them on the
right length of time that this should take? Should this be a
15-year process? A 12-year process? A 5-year process?
Dr. Huff. I think that certifying a reactor design can be
done in a couple of years. It would not need to be 5 or 10 or
12, and siting itself has to satisfy NEPA, but the fastest
conceivable way to satisfy those laws should be the mission of
the nuclear regulator, and I do believe that they understand
that mission.
Senator Lankford. What is the length of time now that it is
for current projects that are underway to get permitted, sited,
and then to start construction?
Dr. Huff. I will have to do some research to get you an
actual number, but it is not as quick as I hope. Someday it
will be.
Senator Lankford. Yes. It is more than two years.
Dr. Huff. Yes.
Senator Lankford. Yes, it needs to work through that
process. I have asked several folks just to ballpark guess on
this. There has been a lot of conversation about using nuclear
power, which, by the way, I am not opposed to, I am supportive
of nuclear power on this. It is a good source. It is one to add
to a multitude of sources that we have to have, especially
effective in certain regions. So the question I have always
asked is, when there has been this push to say, well, let's
shift to nuclear and to try to replace coal facilities or other
facilities that are out there, I ask the question, how many
nuclear facilities does it take to replace the coal that is
currently out there? I have never been able to get a good
number. What is a good ballpark that you would estimate?
Dr. Huff. I think there are about 100 coal sites in the
country that are like reasonable choices from a technical
perspective, you know, they are not located near fault lines,
they are in states that do not currently have a moratorium,
they are not associated with, you know, emergency issues that
are unique to reactors, but not coal plants. And we actually,
in the Office of Nuclear Energy, have an endeavor to help
identify the regions where there may be coal communities that
have some retirements coming up so that, as we look toward
place-based initiatives, we can communicate with those
communities about their potential options.
Senator Lankford. So is it a one-to-one where you have a
nuclear reactor that is replacing one coal plant, or is it
multiple modular that replaces one coal?
Dr. Huff. So the average coal plant is in the hundreds of
megawatts, and that is pretty aligned with the size of a small
modular reactor deployment. These sort of gigawatt-scale coal
plants are pretty rare, and anything below 100 megawatts is
also fairly rare, and so they are fairly close in range to the
sizes that we see for small modular reactors. And so it could
be one-to-one. Some of our small modular reactor designs come
in four-packs or six-packs or 12-packs, and that is, of course
the NuScale design. And so, you know, you could possibly do a
little bit of modularity there to reach exactly the same power
level, but I would say between the sort of hundred- and
thousand-megawatt scale, that is precisely the right place for
small modular.
Senator Lankford. Small modular--each one of them costs
about what on construction?
Dr. Huff. So they are generally in the first-of-a-kind
phase, but I think, you know, at this point, they are in the,
you know, billion dollars per, well, there are two--I would say
there are about, in terms of, here is the thing--they are
different sizes and so they are different costs.
Senator Lankford. Right.
Dr. Huff. But we have--they are about $2 billion each for
the two demonstrations we are deploying plus NuScale, which is
like slightly higher capacity because of multipack, closer to
the $4 billion range for that first-of-a-kind, but they would
like to see those decrease as they demonstrate and get to the
nth-of-a-kind scale, as well as factory-building them. And so,
you know, I hope to see that the nth-of-a-kind scale small
modular reactors are economic.
Senator Lankford. But that may be decade or more away to be
able to work through the economics on it?
Dr. Huff. It could be that long. My hope is that those
first-of-a-kind reactors will be built by the end of the
decade, and the second-, third-, and fourth-of-a-kind will
follow quickly after that. They are already building order
books for some of these reactors, so that they have a plan. So
they are not in series, but in parallel.
Senator Lankford. Okay. All right. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Lankford.
Thank you, Dr. Huff. We are so grateful for your appearance
today before the Committee. Thanks for answering our questions.
Members may submit some additional questions in writing. I
have a couple. They are going to have until 6:00 p.m. tomorrow
evening to submit those questions.
And with that, the Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:22 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
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