    [Senate Hearing 117-253]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 117-253

     EXAMINING SHORELINE AND RIVERBANK RESTORATION IN THE FACE OF CLIMATE
                                     CHANGE

    =======================================================================

                                 FIELD HEARING

                                   before the

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                               FEBRUARY 23, 2022

                                   __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works

      [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                              ______

                  U.S.   GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
     47-534PDF                WASHINGTON : 2023

                   COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                      THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
    BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
    BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont                 Virginia
    SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island         Ranking Member
    JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
    EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts      KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
    TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois            CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
    DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama
    MARK KELLY, Arizona                  JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
    ALEX PADILLA, California             ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
                                         DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
                                         JONI ERNST, Iowa
                                         LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina

                 Mary Frances Repko, Democratic Staff Director
                   Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                               FEBRUARY 23, 2022
                               OPENING STATEMENTS

    Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware..     1

                                   WITNESSES

    Graham, William, Major General...................................     7
        Prepared statement...........................................    10
    Kelly, Jason E., Brigadier General...............................    16
        Prepared statement...........................................    18
    Edwards, John Bel, Louisiana Governor............................    32
        Prepared statement...........................................    36
    Carney, John, Delaware Governor..................................    47
        Prepared statement...........................................    50
    Lock, Kathleen, Slaughter Beach Mayor............................    52
        Prepared statement...........................................    56
    Brockbank, Derek, Executive Director, Coastal States Organization    63
        Prepared statement...........................................    66

     EXAMINING SHORELINE AND RIVERBANK RESTORATION IN THE FACE OF CLIMATE
                                     CHANGE

                                  ----------

                          WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 2022

                                           U.S. Senate,
                     Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The committee, met, pursuant to notice, at 10:00 a.m. at
    Bethany Beach Town Hall, Hon. Thomas R. Carper (chairman of the
    committee) presiding.
        Present: Senator Carper, Congresswoman Lisa Blunt
    Rochester.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

        Senator Carper. All rise.
        I was just kidding. Congresswoman, this is an audience with
    a sense of humor. Our son Ben when he was in the third grade,
    gave advice to his fellow third graders at Brandywood
    Elementary School, home of the Bumble Bees just up north in New
    Castle County. And his advice to them was humor is everything.
    People say where did he get that. I'm not sure, but you can
    never have too much of it. Even in the midst of all the
    challenges we face here at home and around the world, there's a
    reason to be optimistic.
        I'd like to quote Albert Einstein, who used to say in
    adversity lies opportunity, in adversity lies opportunity.
        Albert Einstein was a professor at Princeton, about halfway
    between here and New York City. And he used to take the train a
    lot out of Princeton.
        And one day he got on the train and he was looking for his
    ticket. And he looked in his coat, he looked in his pants, he
    looked in his shirt, he looked in his briefcase. He couldn't
    find his ticket.
        And the conductor comes along. And Albert Einstein is
    pretty anxious. And the conductor said Dr. Einstein, we know
    you, we know who you are, we know you ride the train a lot, so
    don't worry about it, you're OK.
        And then he walks away, the conductor walks away and starts
    to go into the next car. And just before he goes into the next
    car, he looks back into the car and he sees Dr. Einstein down
    on his hands and knees looking for his train ticket. And the
    conductor rushes back there. He says Dr. Einstein, Dr.
    Einstein, don't do this, you ride the train all the time, we
    know who you are, we know who you are. And Dr. Einstein looked
    up from his hands and knees and he says young man, I know who I
    am, too. I just don't know where I'm supposed to go.
        We're going to talk a little bit today about where we need
    to go, where we need to go. I'm delighted to be joined here by
    Lisa Blunt Rochester, who serves our State in so many different
    capacities. And we're delighted to be joined here by our
    leaders, leadership from the Army Corps of Engineers. I'm a
    retired Navy captain. I always say when I'm around people in
    the Army, different uniforms but the same team.
        And here in this--I'll just get this off my chest. We love
    the Army Corps of Engineers. And you and the folks that you
    lead have helped out State in so many ways, continue to help
    our State in so many ways from the Maryland line all the way up
    to Pennsylvania. And we probably don't say thank you enough. We
    try to, but thank you for all that and your folks do for us, do
    with us, and thank you for joining us here today.
        I have about a 2-hour statement that I will open with. Then
    we'll have lunch. It won't seem like 2 hours, but it's a lot
    shorter. I can assure you. But we brought this gavel in. And if
    I don't use it, my staff will kill me. There you go. And if
    people nod off, I'm going to use it again. I see here in the
    audience we're joined by my former colleague, Mary Landrieu.
    Mary, stand up.
        Let's give Mary a nice round of applause. Her husband,
    Ernest Frank. Mary, like me, is a former State treasurer and
    she and I served together. Pretty good partners for any number
    of years in the Senate. And delighted to see both of you here
    today. The letter C figures prominently in the history of our
    State. The letter C figures prominently in the history of our
    State. Many, many years ago, colonists came from all over the
    world, from the Netherlands, the Dutch, we had Swedes, the
    Finns. Just people came from all over the world to settle
    Delaware and settle this country. But the letter C, colonists.
    A lot of them raised corn. And as time would go by, a lot of
    them would raise chickens, which would eat the corn.
        Over 100 years ago, we changed our Constitution in order to
    make Delaware an attractive place for companies to incorporate.
    And today I think there are more Fortunate 500 companies
    incorporated in the State of Delaware than in any State in the
    country. So corporations is a big deal. Constitution. We were
    the first State to ratify the constitution. About 70, 80 miles
    up the road in Dover, 25 white guys gathered at the Golden
    Fleece Tavern for two or 3 days, drank a lot of milk, reviewed
    the document that had been sent down from Philadelphia. And
    after 3 days of debate, ratified it unanimously. So we became
    the First State.
        Cars. There was a time not that long ago where we built
    more cars. We had a huge plant, as Lisa remembers, as our
    lieutenant Governor remembers. Huge plant, a Chrysler plant in
    Newark and a huge GM plant near New Port, Delaware.
        And so we are also famous for our credit cards. Raise your
    hand if you have a credit card on your body or your purse. If
    you have a credit card, there's about a 60 percent chance that
    it was issued from a bank in Delaware. For those of you who
    don't always promptly pay your fees, thank you. You are
    forgiven and encouraged.
        A lot of companies here, a lot of companies here over the
    years. A lot of them are mom and pops, but some of them are
    pretty big. The DuPont Company is just one of those that are
    really big. We have some of the biggest banks, corporations
    really around the world. And big companies like AstraZeneca
    call Delaware their American home headquarters. We have also
    leaders like Carney, John Carney, our Governor. Like Castle,
    who was our Governor and our Congressman. Like Carper. And then
    we have LBR, Lisa Blunt Rochester.
        Congresswoman Rochester. Forget Coons.
        Senator Carper. Oh, Coons, our Senator.
        And we have LBR. No C there. So somebody said one time
    maybe no C, but a really cool Congresswoman. There you go. Can
    I get an amen? Can I get an amen? Amen. And we have coasts. We
    have a big coast here for a little State. And we have a lot of
    five-star beaches. The last time I checked, we had more five-
    star beaches than any State in America, something we're really
    proud of. And one of them is named after our Lieutenant
    Governor Bethany Hall, Bethany. Nice round of applause.
        Thank you.
        Senator Carper. And we have a couple of other Cs that are
    more troublesome. And one of those is climate change. It's not
    something I thought a whole lot about when I used to come here
    as a guy in graduate school right out of the Navy. Didn't think
    a lot about climate change at that time. Just thought about
    having a good time, and we certainly did. I made my decision to
    run for State treasurer at the age of 29 just a few miles up
    the road from here on a beach, a Delaware beach just up the
    road. My wife and I for many years would come to Bethany Beach
    with our sons when they were younger, just little guys. And we
    actually made the decision, a family decision for me to run for
    Governor right here in Bethany Beach out of Bethany West where
    we had rented a house. So this place has a special meaning for
    me and for our family.
        And the other C I want to mention is the Corps, the Army
    Corps of Engineers. I'm privileged to serve as chairman of a
    committee called Environment and Public Works. We have
    jurisdiction over roads, highways, bridges, climate change,
    clean air, clean water, drinking water, wastewater, sanitation,
    flooding. And the Army Corps of Engineers is really part of our
    entities that we oversee. And it's really a source of joy, just
    a source of joy.
        That was an ad lib. That was a riff. And now I have to get
    even more serious and because the business before us is
    serious.
        And we are here today to discuss two immensely important
    and related topics, climate change and coastal restoration.
    Having this discussion in the communities that directly feel
    the impacts of climate change bring new perspectives and a
    greater sense of urgency to our work.
        So everyone who has traveled to Bethany
        Beach, whether you live around here or you've come from
    another State or upstate, we're happy that you have and we want
    to welcome you warmly.
        I'll thrilled that Lisa is here, our Congresswoman. And
    we've partnered on so many things in the past. I'm happy and
    delighted to be partnering with you today.
        The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is a principal steward of
    our Nation's water and infrastructure. The Corps plays a
    critical role in the construction and maintenance of much of
    the infrastructure we see around us in Delaware, such as our
    Port of Wilmington, our wetlands, our marsh, and our beaches.
        The Port of Wilmington is being expanded to the north.
    Basically doubled in size, doubled in employment. We expect
    another couple thousand people to be working there in a few
    years. And none of that would happen without the help of the
    Army Corps of Engineers. So we've grateful for that.
        If you had a banana with your breakfast today and you
    bought it on the east coast, that banana came through the Port
    of Wilmington. We are the top banana port on the east coast.
        The Corps is also responsible for operating America's water
    highway, 12,000-mile long system of inland waterways that are
    vital, vital to domestic and international commerce. Each year
    this expansive system moves more than 500 million tons of
    commodities, 500 million tons of commodities. The includes 6
    percent of our Nation's agricultural exports.
        The Corps' action to operate and maintain the system
    results in economic benefit of nearly $14 billion each year,
    $14 billion each year in economic benefits, tens of thousands,
    hundreds of thousands of jobs actually. As Joe Biden would say
    actually good paying, good union jobs. Want to work that in.
        The Corps is also tasked with protecting our communities
    and our infrastructure from floods and from coastal storms. In
    2020 alone, these efforts amounted to more than $250 billion in
    damage prevention, in damage reduction. And that's not all.
        As we see in Delaware and across our nation when these
    ecosystems are protected by the
        Corps, communities are protected and important wildlife
    habitat is conserved.
        These restoration activities also drive tourism and
    ecotourism economies. For example, people travel from all over
    to enjoy our beaches and observe our beloved horseshoe crabs
    and our migratory birds.
        In the United States, more than 128 million people, this is
    a great stat, in the United States there are more than 128
    million people who live in coastal counties. That represents
    more than 40 percent of our Nation's population.
        Get this. If America's coastal counties were their own
    nation, just imagine all the counties on the coast were their
    own nation, their gross domestic product would rank third in
    the world, exceeded only by China and by the U.S. as a whole.
        Unfortunately, today these population centers, these
    engines of our economy face a growing unrelenting threat from
    climate change and many times do not compete well for Federal
    assistance due to antiquated budgeting procedures.
        Since 1901, global sea levels have risen by nearly ten
    inches. Well, that may not sound like much, but it is. And the
    story gets worse, because in the days to come, the years to
    come, we're going to witness not just ten inches of sea level
    rise, but a whole lot more.
        A recent report released actually earlier this month by
    NOAA, not Noah the flood, the ark, but
        NOAA, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, they
    released a report that got a lot of attention. It's going to
    continue to get a lot of attention.
        They project with respect to sea level rise that it's going
    to accelerate in the next 30years unless we intervene. The
    report explains that the United States will experience a
    profound increase in the frequency of coastal flooding, even in
    the absence of storms or heavy rainfall.
        The signs are clear. We must make our infrastructure both
    more resilient and more nature-based to withstand our changing
    climate.
        And while we simultaneously address the root cause of
    climate change, too much carbon dioxide in our atmosphere,
    trapping emissions from all sort of places, our cars, our
    trucks, our vans, our power plants, our manufacturing
    facilities.
        In Delaware, we've demonstrated that we can protect
    communities and the environment while also growing our economy.
    It's not a choice. We can do both and we need to do both.
        But the continued threats from climate change are
    threatening this balancing act. The same can be said for
    Louisiana. On any given day, Louisiana loses, get this, a
    football field size piece of wetlands to the sea every 100
    minutes.
        Think about that. Think about a football field every 100
    minutes. That piece of land is gone to the sea.
        That, if you add that up since 1930, it's an area the size
    of Delaware. So it's huge, huge. And it's going larger and more
    quickly. Think about it.
        These losses will only speed up if we fail to respond and
    take the action that's called for. The science is clear. The
    science is clear.
        One of my favorite songs by Thomas Dolby, a one hit wonder,
    was She Blinded Me with Science. And we don't want to be
    blinded with science. We want to be guided by science, guided
    by science.
        And the science is clear. We must attack this crisis on all
    fronts, addressing both the root causes of climate change while
    also repairing the damage that we've already experienced. The
    latter is where the Army Corps of
        Engineers plays a vital role. Despite the Corps' historical
    effectiveness of managing flood and coastal storm damages, the
    growing threat of climate change demands that this agency adapt
    to better protect our coast. And to help the agency to do so,
    Congress needs to give the Corps a proper budget and necessary
    authorities.
        Last year, in fact, last fall, not that many months ago,
    President Biden signed the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs
    Act into law, which I had the privilege to help write and to
    manage on the floor. A large part of it came out of my
    committee that I'm privileged to chair.
        This law, combined with the expected annual appropriations
    and supplemental spending, are expected to provide the Army
    Corps of Engineers with an additional $100 billion to spend
    over the next five years.
        I'll be honest with you. That's a lot of money. It's
    probably not enough money to meet all the requirements and all
    the challenges that are facing them. But it's a huge amount of
    money compared to what we've provided them in the past.
        This historic investment will allow the Corps to begin to
    clear its deck of backlogged projects across our country and
    free up additional funds that must be used to address key
    initiates in our battle against climate change.
        To incentivize, rather to increase the focus of the Army
    Corps' mission around climate change, Congresswoman Blunt
    Rochester, Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy, and Congressman
    Graves from Louisiana. What's his first name; do you know?
        Congresswoman Rochester. Garret.
        Senator Carper. Garret. Thank you. And I have introduced
    legislation known as the Shoreline Health Oversight Restoration
    Resilience and Enhancement Act. Try to put that on a bumper
    sticker. But fortunately, there's an acronym, as there is in
    most cases. And this one is the word SHORRE, the word SHORRE
    with two Rs, two Rs. I didn't do that well in spelling.
        If enacted, the SHORRE Act will empower the Corps to
    protect our Nation's coast from the effect of climate change.
    And our bill does this by elevating coastal restoration to a
    primary mission of the agency and promoting the development of
    sustainable nature-based resilience projects. Our legislation
    also facilitates the Corps' work with
        State and local partners and climate mitigation and
    ecosystem restoration projects. We look forward to discussing
    the SHORRE Act with our colleagues in Congress and working to
    include it as part of our biannual water infrastructure
    legislation that the Congress will take up this year.
        We take up Water Resources Development Act every 2 years.
    And we passed it with huge bipartisan margins. We are hopefully
    taking that up on the floor later this year and hope we get the
    same strong response and support. And part of that we hope will
    be the SHORRE legislation that I just talked about.
        And that leads us to today's hearing. We'll soon hear from
    a diverse panel of witnesses, wonderful witnesses, including
    two highly regarded coastal Governors, our own Governor and the
    Governor of Louisiana, senior Army Corps officials and
    stakeholders who are deeply invested in the health and
    resiliency of our Nation's coasts.
        And we were grateful to each of you for your presence and
    really for your leadership and eager to hear from this panel
    and others that will follow us as we discuss the critical
    intersection of climate change with our coasts and the US Army
    Corps of Engineers.
        Now a few introductions. First, Major General William,
    Butch, Graham, proud Panther. Graduate of the University of
    Pittsburgh. He was Army ROTC there. I was Navy ROTC there. Not
    there, but not far away in Ohio State. But where he's the
    current deputy commanding general for civil and emergency
    operation at headquarters U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. If that
    sounds like a big job and a big deal, it is. He has a huge,
    huge job and challenge.
        There he oversees all the Corps' civil works activities
    along with a $7 billion annual program and responses to storms
    and other natural disasters.
        His previous Corps assignments included commander of the
    Corps' North Atlantic Division in Pittsburgh district. He's
    literally served our nation all over the world. And we're
    grateful for that and honored by his presence today.
        General Graham is no stranger to Delaware. He's many times
    received parking tickets here in Bethany Beach. Never been
    towed, never been. No, he's not received any parking tickets
    until today.
        And I'm sure we can get it written off if you do. The nice
    thing about this time of the year is there's no parking meters.
    This is just great.
        I love it, love doing it at the beach in the winter.
        But anyway, we're grateful for his support and assistance
    and that of the men and women that he leads.
        General Graham, you're now recognized to make your
    statement. Welcome and thank you.

               STATEMENT OF MAJOR GENERAL WILLIAM GRAHAM

        Major General Graham. Chairman Carper, Representative Blunt
    Rochester, I'm surely honored to testify before you today and
    thank you for this opportunity to discuss the important topics
    of shoreline and riverbank restoration and resiliency.
        The Corps, as you said, sir, has a primary responsibility
    for the planning and construction of flood and coastal storm
    risk management systems along our Nation's shorelines and
    rivers. The coastal storm risk management project that includes
        Bethany Beach and South Bethany provides critical
    protection from severe Atlantic storms and rising sea levels
    all along the Delaware coast.
        Incorporating natural and nature-based features, such as
    sand-filled beaches and dunes, and certainly appreciate the
    photographs that the team has assembled in front of us, this
    project provided vital protection during Hurricane Sandy in
    October of 2012, as well as during several nor'easters
    experienced in recent years.
        Project features incurred damages due to those significant
    coastal storms. Public and private property located landward,
    where we are, of the project received relatively little damage.
        The Corps and its partners have been able to reconstruct
    these project features after these events, demonstrating an
    ability to prepare, absorb, recover, and adapt to the
    continuing threat of coastal storms, and Senator, I would say
    climate change as well. This is the very definition of
    resiliency, Delaware resiliency.
        Looking regionally, examples broadly such as this clearly
    demonstrate the need for a more coordinated and resilient
    systems-based approach to flood and coastal storm risk
    management.
        Also in the wake of Hurricane Sandy, Congress provided
    significant authorities and appropriations to conduct a
    comprehensive study along the north Atlantic coastline. This
    effort, called the North Atlantic Coast Comprehensive Study,
    highlighted the long-term challenges from coastal storms facing
    this part of the Nation. It underscored the need to support
    resilient communities. And Senator, as you mentioned, the
    ecosystems there as well.
        While still promoting equity and encouraging economic
    growth, the North Atlantic Coast Comprehensive Study emphasized
    a need to transition, where possible, from traditional
    structural measures, gray infrastructure, to non-structural,
    natural, and nature-based systems, green infrastructure.
        Further, given projected sea level and climate change
    trends that I mentioned earlier, the report concluded that
    further investments and development in science and engineering,
    to include research and development, is critical to ensure that
    the Corps continue to provide sound storm risk reduction
    solutions.
        This broad regional study identified nine high risk focus
    areas for more in-depth investigation. The city of Norfolk's
    Coastal Storm Risk Management Study was one of those focus
    areas. The Norfolk study was undertaken to evaluate risk
    management solutions for a major city that is predicted to be
    heavily influenced by rising sea levels.
        Approved in the Water Resources Development Act of 2020 and
    initially funded for construction through the Infrastructure
    Investment and Jobs Act, this recommended project includes four
    storm surge barriers as well as numerous non-structural
    features, such as flood proofing and building elevations.
        Additionally, the plan includes construction of oyster
    reefs and living shorelines to increase resiliency via the
    incorporation of natural and nature-based features.
        And Senator, when I leave this hearing today, I'll travel
    down to Norfolk to link up with Mr. Conner, our assistant
    secretary for the Army for civil works, to tour this very
    project.
        Senator Carper. Give him my best. Thank you.
        Major Graham. Will do, Senator.
        Across the country----
        Senator Carper. Norfolk is where the USS Delaware was
    built, most modern fast attack nuclear submarine in the world,
    which comes to Delaware Port of Wilmington on May--March 30th,
    March 31st. Be there.
        Sorry. That was a commercial.
        Major General Graham. That's a hard act to follow.
        Senator Carper. Where were we?
        Major Graham. Senator, across the country, new and ongoing
    Corps planning efforts continue to build upon the lessons
    learned in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy.
        The recently completed Coastal Texas Protection and
    Restoration Study, another one of these large regional studies,
    has employed a similarly comprehensive regional approach. The
    recommended plan includes a combination of aquatic ecosystem
    restoration and coastal storm risk management features that
    function as a system to reduce the risk of coastal storm damage
    to natural areas and manmade infrastructure.
        Looking nationally, the Corps continues to look ahead at
    the changing landscape of risk reduction and anticipates
    delivering a large nationwide study known as the National
    Shoreline Management Study by the end of this year.
        The National Shoreline Management Study, which is near and
    dear to I'm sure a lot of people in this room here today,
    builds on a series of eight regional assessments that explore
    shoreline erosion and accretion characteristics, certainly a
    subject that's near and dear to the State of Delaware.
        These assessments included extensive stakeholder and tribal
    engagements to make sure that our recommendations are in line
    with the changing climate.
        So moving forward, as outlined in our Climate Action Plan,
    the Corps is committed to evolving our procedures, our planning
    efforts, and project operations to bolster adaptation and
    increase resilience to the impacts of climate change. In doing
    so, the Corps seeks to develop opportunities to enhance the
    effectiveness of our civil works project and reduce risks to
    vulnerable communities.
        Chairman, thank you and thank you, Representative Blunt
    Rochester, for providing us the opportunity to testify here
    today. And I look forward to answering any of your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Major General Graham follows:]
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        Senator Carper. Thank you very much, General.
        The second witness is Brigadier General Jason E. What does
    the E. stand for?
        Brigadier General Kelly. Eric, sir.
        Senator Carper. General Kelly, commanding general for the
    South Atlantic Division of the Army Corps of Engineers. General
    Kelly did not go to the Naval Academy. Where did you go to
    school? Was it west? By a point?
        Brigadier General Kelly. Chairman, I'm a proud graduate of
    the United States Military Academy at West Point.
        Senator Carper. Navy salutes you.
        General Kelly is responsible for 25,000 square mile area,
    which includes all or part of the eight southern states,
    including Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands. General
    Kelly comes to us with a different perspective that given the
    destructive hurricanes that settled over Puerto Rico and Virgin
    Islands and wrecked such havoc will be critical as we work on
    these policies. General Kelly, we're delighted that you're
    here. Thanks for bringing the General with you. And you're
    recognized to give us your statement.
        Thank you.

             STATEMENT OF BRIGADIER GENERAL JASON E. KELLY

        Brigadier General Kelly. Chairman Carper, Representative
    Blunt Rochester, I'm honored to testify before you today and
    greatly appreciate the time you've allocated for me to present
    features of the United States Army Corps of Engineers South
    Atlantic Division Civil Works Program.
        I welcome the opportunity to share ongoing shoreline and
    riverbank restoration improvement efforts. Our productive and
    positive use of dredge material, the many ways that we're using
    innovation and efficiencies to address comprehensive benefits,
    identify and assist economically distressed and historically
    underserved communities, and enhance resiliency to accommodate
    sea level rise and other impacts from global climate change.
        Most importantly, I look forward to working with this
    committee, the Congress, and the administration to help address
    the Nation's water resources challenges. The South Atlantic
    Division has a diverse Civil Works Program that includes
    projects in commercial navigation, flood and storm damage risk
    reduction, and ecosystem restoration.
        Our region includes the navigation channels, ports, and
    waterways in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama,
    Mississippi, Florida, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
    We're responsible for the Enterprise Deep Draft Navigation
    Center of Expertise and the Everglades restoration effort, the
    largest ecosystem restoration program in the world.
        I'm especially excited to highlight the South Atlantic
    Coastal Study, commonly referred to as SACS, the largest
    coastal risk assessment ever conducted by the Corps of
    Engineers, covering more than 60,000 miles, six states, and two
    territories.
        This is a mammoth undertaking, a great example of our goal
    to maximize the use of research and development, while
    promoting community resilience through partnering.
        It best illustrates our effort to overcome institutional
    barriers and adapt to climate change to include sea level rise.
        America's water resources, rivers, wetlands, inland and
    coastal waterways, and more, support billions of dollars in
    recreation and commerce, affect public safety, restore much-
    needed habitat for fish and wildlife, and provide water supply
    benefits.
        Army Corps of Engineers' decisionmakers must ascertain the
    Federal interest for competing alternatives and recommend plans
    worthy of Federal investment.
        In addition to the national economic benefits account,
    innovative methods of determination are being implemented now
    to fully capture maximum benefits that may be affected by other
    accounts, to include regional economic development,
    environmental quality, and other social effects.
        Examples in my region of responsibility include the South
    Atlantic Coastal Study, Selma, the Charleston Peninsula, and
    the San Juan metro flood risk management projects. The
    aforementioned projects are but a sampling, intended to
    highlight how the South Atlantic Division is addressing
    comprehensive benefits, identifying and assisting economically
    disadvantaged and distressed communities to include rural and
    tribal communities, and enhancing the resiliency of our
    shorelines and riverbanks to accommodate sea level rise and
    other global climate change impacts.
        As emphasized in Lieutenant General Spellman's testimony to
    this committee last month, the Corps continues to seek
    opportunities to identify and document the full spectrum of
    economic, environmental, and other benefits to the Nation.
        The projects that I've mentioned are all recent examples of
    this commitment in action. We're committed to ensuring that the
    South Atlantic Division will continue to seek innovative ways
    to identify the most equitable and efficient solutions to our
    Nation's water resources, issues in a manner that is of high
    engineering and economic and environmental quality.
        Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement.
        I appreciate the opportunity to testify today. I look
    forward to answering any questions you may have. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Brigadier General Kelly
    follows:]
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        Senator Carper. Thank you very much.
        Thank you both for your testimonies.
        My recollection is that you both have children. Is that
    right?
        General Graham, what do you have? Boy, girls, a couple of
    boys? What do you have?
        Major General Graham. Senator, I've got two older girls and
    a younger boy.
        Senator Carper. OK. General Kelly?
        Brigadier General Kelly. Sir, I have two boys.
        Senator Carper. Congresswoman Blunt Rochester, our
    lieutenant Governor, Bethany Long Hall, and others here, other
    elected, being joined by our Governor and the Governor of
    Louisiana, we go to schools a lot. We get invited to all kinds
    of schools, from kindergarten up through graduate schools and
    colleges.
        And I love going to grade schools and we'll do assemblies.
        And I'll always remember going to this one grade school
    down here in Sussex County. And I was introduced to speak. In
    the auditorium was the kindergarten all the way back to I think
    the fifth grade. And a little girl in the third grade stood up,
    and she said, after I made my remarks, and she said what do you
    do, anyway. And I said well, I'm a United States Senator. And
    she said well, what do you do. And I said well, I help make the
    rules for our country.
        I asked if they had rules for her school. She said yes. I
    said do you have rules on your bus. And she said yes. I said
    you have rules at home. She said yes. I said we have rules for
    our country.
        And along with 99 other senators, 435 U.S. Representatives,
    and the president, we help make the rules for our country.
        The little boy sitting next to her said what else do you
    do. And I responded we help people. We help people in all
    different kinds of ways.
        And as parents yourselves, if you're in a school in
    Delaware or some other place, and a third and fourth grader
    stood up and said what do you do at the Army Corps of
    Engineers, General Graham, how would you explain it so that
    child might be able to understand the importance of what you
    do?
        Major General Graham. Senator, we help people, too. We help
    communities like we're standing in here today. And that's why
    the 34,000 men and women who make up the Army Corps of
    Engineers have joined us, because they value this work. They
    love delivering for the State of Delaware. Certainly the
    Philadelphia district that supports the State is absolutely
    committed to that.
        So Senator, I think the way I would answer that is similar
    fashion, we help people.
        Senator Carper. Good.
        I can barely see General Kelly's lips move when you gave
    that answer. So I think you two are in harmony. OK. All right.
        General Graham, you have previously testified that the
    Corps accounts for climate change when it formulates a project,
    and that's true.
        But it's clear that the Corps only formulates projects to
    address coastal and river storm surge and not the other impacts
    of climate change, such as extreme rainfall and sea level rise.
        In places like Delaware and Louisiana, the Corps' failure
    to account for a full range of climate impacts excludes a good
    number of projects from consideration and severely
    disadvantages these states.
        Here is my question. How can the provisions of this
    legislation I described earlier, the SHORRE Act, how can the
    provisions of that legislation help the Army Corps of Engineers
    better address the impacts of climate change as you design
    projects to work on? Go ahead, please.
        Major General Graham. Chairman Carper, thank you very much
    for that question.
        At the request of your team, we are currently working to
    answer that very question and preparing effect statements on
    the provisions of the SHORRE Act. And those will be available
    shortly.
        After the hearing, I'll certainly get on the phone and make
    sure that we'll check on the progress to make sure that those
    effect statements are on track.
        Chairman, regarding how we currently consider climate
    change, our authorities are based on the analysis of specific
    storm events. And to that end, we analyze all aspects of the
    flooding problem, including contributions from rainfall, high
    rivers, and sea level rise, which is known as combination
    flooding.
        And certainly to the testimony that you're going to receive
    after us, the folks coming up from Louisiana, combination
    flooding with the Mississippi River, the Gulf, and hurricanes
    rolling in off the Gulf, they are at ground zero for that
    combination flooding.
        We are, the Corps of Engineers, consistently updating,
    innovating, and improving our engineering processes, our key
    modeling, and the research and development that underpins all
    of that engineering.
        Senator Carper. Thank you. Thanks very much.
        Maybe a follow-up, quick follow-up. How should the Army
    Corps and the Office of Management and Budget alter their
    budgeting process so that the Corps can better plan for and
    execute projects designed to address a broader range of climate
    change impacts?
        Major General Graham. Chairman, thank you for that
    question.
        General Kelly touched on this earlier. And we've been
    working together for many, many years. But the Corps strives
    always to maximize the benefits to help people.
        Our job is to provide Mr. Conner, the assistant secretary
    of the Army for civil works, with our best technical
    recommendation.
        Mr. R.D. James, who was the previous assistant secretary of
    the Army for civil works, he provided about 2 years ago the
    Corps guidance to use all four of the PR--principles,
    requirements, and guidelines benefit categories that General
    Kelly spoke to earlier, the national economic development
    benefits, the regional economic development benefits, the
    environmental benefits, and the other societal benefits.
        We hadn't been allowed to use those all in the past. Mr.
    James allowed us to use those. And Mr. Conner has told us that
    he supports that decision and he's going to provide us refined
    guidance in the future.
        So that's what our teams are currently working on to be
    able to provide all those benefits.
        Senator Carper. Thank you. Another question for General
    Graham relating to climate change in project formulation. As
    you know, the new NOAA, National Oceanic and Atmospheric
    Administration, sea level rise report just came out on February
    15th, not even two weeks ago. This report paints a very
    sobering, very sobering picture for our country, really for the
    world, but for our country at large about the needs to address
    climate change. But it also has real implication for coastal
    communities, like this community right now.
        As our Congresswoman, as our lieutenant Governor, and as
    our Governor knows, Delaware is the lowest lying State in the
    country. Our State is sinking. And the seas around us are
    rising. If that doesn't get our attention, something is wrong.
        But here is my question. The report of NOAA on sea level
    rise really underlines the need to address climate change. But
    it also has real implications for coastal communities, like
    right now.
        Technical assistance provided to my staff during the
    drafting of both this SHORRE legislation I keep talking about
    and the coming Water Resources Development Act, which we hope
    to fold the SHORRE Act into, the larger piece of legislation,
    later this spring. We were told that when the report is final,
    the Corps will, and this is a quote, consider and update the
    technical guidance and if appropriate, update those documents.
        Given the Corps was the coauthor of the report, what are
    the next steps for the agency in the process of incorporating
    the findings and updated sea level projections into project
    design and implementation?
        I'll just say, our witnesses know this, if you go back 30,
    40, 50, maybe 60, 70 years look at sea level rise, it's maybe
    eight, nine, ten inches over close to a century. That's going
    to continue.
        That's the bad news.
        The really bad news is it's going to continue a lot faster.
        And the question is are we fast enough on our feet to get
    ready for it and turn it around before it's too late?
        General Graham, go ahead.
        Major General Graham. Chairman Carper, that is--the
    question is not if the sea level behind us is going to rise,
    it's when.
        And we've been incorporating for decades various sea level
    rise scenarios that address that very question. Not if, but
    when.
        And we will take a look at the specific geographical area
    and we'll look at three scenarios; a high, medium, and low.
        And it's not, again, Chairman, when the sea level is going
    to rise--sorry. It's not if the sea level is going to rise,
    it's when.
        In General Kelly's area, we're expecting one to two feet.
    In the Gulf region, certainly two feet. In this region, about a
    foot to 18 inches is what we're expecting, as the NOAA report
    said, over the next 50 to 60 years. And Chairman, as you said,
    that's accelerating.
        So sir, you have our absolute commitment that we are going
    to ensure that our guiding engineering doctrine incorporates
    that in real time.
        Senator Carper. All right. I'm going to turn now, General
    Kelly, to a question or two for you if I could.
        On the scope of feasibility studies, as a leader of the
    South Atlantic Division, you currently oversee a number of
    studies and projects for communities in the southeast, I think
    in Puerto Rico also, that are at risk from climate change.
        In the course of study of the Charleston Peninsula in
    southern Carolina, in South Carolina, the initial project
    recommendations by the Corps raised significant public
    concerns, as you know.
        The public felt that there were several shortcomings in the
    Corps' decisionmaking, including an over reliance on
    constructed project elements. Also, the exclusion of
    economically disadvantaged communities from the project benefit
    area and a failure to identify holistic solutions that would
    address flood risk other than storm surge.
        Here is my question. What are the key lessons you learned
    from the Charleston Peninsula study process? And are there
    provisions in the SHORRE Act, this legislation I keep talking
    about, that will help future studies avoid the problems that
    you've encountered?
        Brigadier General Kelly. Chairman Carper, for me, the first
    lesson and one that continues to provide benefits for my
    command, good partnership, the value of good partnership,
    persistent engagement, and transparency cannot be overstated.
        The Charleston Peninsula has a high level and risk
    vulnerability to coastal storms. And this is exacerbated by the
    combination that General Graham mentioned of sea level rise and
    climate change. And that was true over the period of analysis.
        The study investigated storm surge, but we also recognize
    that this area is prone to flooding, specifically sunny day
    tides. And that was not investigated in the study.
        The recommended plan has a robust benefit to cost ratio of
    11 to one. And it will reduce risk posed by coastal storm surge
    and also enhance the city of Charleston's ability to quickly
    recover from storm surge disruptions.
        As you mentioned, the prominent feature of the plan is a
    storm surge wall, but it also includes three areas of non-
    structural measures where a storm surge wall was not optimal
    based on topography and location of the storm surge sources.
        Two particular areas that I call out is the Rose Mont and
    Bridge Water Village, both economically disadvantaged
    communities within the study area. The non-structural measures
    recommended in these communities include flood proofing and
    structural elevation raises.
        When I think about the lesson learned and the persistent
    engagement, the study team engaged with residents and business
    owners during the planning process through a series of outreach
    meetings. And based on this feedback, we recognize the need to
    migrate from an environmental assessment to an environmental
    impact statement to make sure that we disclose the potentially
    damaging environmental, cultural, and visual impacts of the
    project.
        This EIS is underway. And it will include a more detailed
    mitigation plan and a more robust environmental justice
    analysis.
        The Corps is currently preparing the effect statements, as
    General Graham mentioned, for the specific SHORRE Act, but I
    support a holistic process for flood risk management and full
    consideration of environmental justice for disadvantaged
    communities without doubt.
        Senator Carper. That's encouraging.
        Thank you very much.
        One last question. And I'm going to turn to our
    Congresswoman, and then bring out our next panel.
        General Graham, with respect to improving outreach and
    improving partnering, at the Water Resource Development
    Oversight, the hearing that our committee held in Washington
    last month, General Spellman acknowledged that the Corps has a
    consistency problem when it comes to district outreach and
    partnering activities with local project stakeholders.
        Apparently some districts reach out to communities within
    their areas of responsibility proactively and they do it often,
    as you know.
        While other districts largely leave communities in the dark
    to fend for themselves when it comes to identifying the
    opportunities that the Corps programs provide.
        We have experienced this at times in Delaware, and I
    believe we are on a path to resolving this problem here.
        Question. Would you please share a few of the details about
    the Corps' new partnering guidelines and play book and explain
    how this new guidance will help the Army Corps of Engineers be
    a better partner in the future?
        Major General Graham. Chairman Carper, again thank you for
    that question.
        So the Corps doesn't do anything on its own, as we
    witnessed here in the State of Delaware.
        Improving partnerships and transparency has been a priority
    for Lieutenant General Spellman from day one.
        Our updated partnership guidance are focused on creating
    and maintaining sound partnerships to enable the safe delivery
    of quality projects that are on time and within budget.
        Sound partnership requires proactive engagements at all
    echelons, and it's rooted in three mutually supported elements:
    Commitment, collaboration, and most importantly, collaboration.
        And communication, sorry. Let me get that again.
        Commitment, collaboration, and communication.
        Senator Carper. That's a lot of Cs.
        Major General Graham. It's a lot of Cs.
        It's not corn, chicken, and corporations.
        Senator Carper. Say those Cs again.
        Those are good.
        Collaboration, right? What were the others?
        Major General Graham. Commitment and communication.
        Senator Carper. There you go.
        Major General Graham. So Senator----
        Senator Carper. That's also a secret for a long marriage.
        Major General Graham. It is.
        Regarding----
        Senator Carper. That's a hearing for another day. Please.
        Major General Graham. Chairman, to some of the challenges
    we experienced here in Delaware, when you get new authorities--
    and I've got to pause here for a second to certainly thank this
    committee for getting a Water Resource and Development Act
    every 2 years. That allows my team to get good at taking those
    new authorities and putting those to work for the American
    people.
        Getting implementation guidance to General Kelly so that we
    can put those to work.
        So we greatly appreciate, sir, your leadership and having
    those bills every 2 years.
        That's wonderful.
        Senator Carper. Teamwork makes the dream work.
        Major General Graham. Absolutely. The challenge we've got
    is I've got to help the divisions and the districts take those
    new authorities and put them to practice.
        And that was probably my failing here in Delaware is that I
    didn't help out the Philadelphia district fast enough to
    understand some of these new authorities and bring up some of
    the expertise.
        General Kelly has an amazing team down in Mobile that had
    that expertise. And it was my failing for being too slow to
    connect General
        Kelly's expertise to the need here with the Philadelphia
    district to support Delaware.
        So Senator, that's my commitment is to do a better job in
    making those connections.
        Senator Carper. Well, you have atoned for your sins, and
    we're going to go forward and do good work here. Thanks so
    much.
        OK. Congresswoman, you're now recognized for the next hour.
        Congresswoman Rochester. Thank you, Senator. I think it's 5
    minutes.
        Senator Carper. Oh, OK.
        Congresswoman Rochester. But I'll take an hour.
        First of all, I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your
    leadership. We know that here in Delaware, this is not new for
    you. These are not new issues for you. And we want to thank you
    for walking the walk and not just talking the talk and also for
    allowing us to participate in today's field hearing.
        Senator Carper. You can go ahead and take the full hour.
        Congresswoman Rochester. And I also want to thank all of
    our witnesses for your testimony.
        And as the chairman was saying, all of our Cs of chickens
    and cards and chemicals. I don't know if you said chemicals,
    but chemicals. All of the different Cs. I see the mayor shaking
    his head on this one.
        I also want to highlight another C, which is strong
    communities. And really one of the reasons we're here today and
    even doing this field hearing where we're doing it is because
    we have strong communities in Delaware that have spoken up
    about the needs and sounded the alarm about the sense of
    urgency for our economy, for our environment, and also for our
    quality of life.
        And so I want to thank all of the community members, the
    mayors, the town councils2, everyone who is participating
    today, our lieutenant Governor and Governor, because we are a
    strong community.
        I'm also honored to participate in this important hearing
    and am proud to have introduced HR6705, the bipartisan SHORRE
    Act, which the---- I almost called you Governor. Harken back.
    Governor
        Carney looked up very quickly. Which the chairman has
    already shared with you is the Shoreline Health Oversight
    Restoration Resilience and Enhancement Act, along with my
    colleague Representative Graves.
        I think it's important to note that this bill, this
    legislation, is bicameral, meaning in the House and the Senate,
    which means it has a great chance of passing. And it's
    bipartisan.
        And I also think that's important to antiparticlenote,
    particularly in this moment where people feel we can't problem
    solve. And we're coming together to find common ground to
    problem solve for our coastlines, our riverbanks, and our
    shorelines.
        And so I want to thank you for your leadership.
        And the goal of this legislation is simple. It's to address
    the ongoing flooding crisis that our coastal communities and
    riverbank communities continue to face.
        And if I were asked what the Army Corps, what would I say
    to a fifth grader, I would say they're problem solvers. They
    help us to problem solve and help us to really attack these
    issues.
        I want to thank you again, Senator Carper and also Senator
    Cassidy, for your leadership.
        And I will have my first question. And my first question is
    to General Kelly. Shore protection and restoration projects
    that utilize nature-based features, such and dunes, are highly
    adaptable to climate change. However, it's unclear whether the
    Corps interprets existing authorities to permit projects to be
    modified in order to increase their resilience.
        Having assumed command of the South Atlantic Division in
    2020, you have firsthand knowledge of the Jacksonville
    district's efforts to modify federally authorized shore
    protection projects for enhanced resilience.
        I have a three-part question for you. You might want to
    take a note.
        How has the Jacksonville district worked to enhance the
    resiliency of federally authorized shore protection projects?
    Were there legal hurdles? That's No. 2. And are there
    authorities needed that could support rebuilding or repairing
    coastal projects at a higher level of resilience?
        Brigadier General Kelly. Representative Blunt Rochester,
    thank you so much for that question.
        I get excited about such things because innovative and
    efficient approaches to incorporate dunes in our existing
    projects is something we're working hard to do.
        We have some challenges in the Jacksonville district. We
    had a re-nourishment effort program for over a dozen projects
    but only constructed one. And we were unable to construct
    because making betterments to projects funded with flood
    control and coastal emergency funds with construction funds is
    not something we could do.
        But I've got some good news I want to share in that story,
    something I consider a win. We set precedent in trying to do
    this, in that when we better understood what funds we could
    use, we used that knowledge to bring several projects up to a
    modern standard. So we looked back. And we're now moving out
    with this under our regular program.
        And so in this tale is good news that we're now using to
    improve the resiliency in Florida as a result of existing
    authorities.
        And so to the third part of your question, additional
    authorities, I absolutely favor any effort that helps us build
    innovative climate resilient infrastructure, but we've also got
    to maximize the authorities we have. And that was the lesson I
    took from the aforementioned effort in Jacksonville.
        Congresswoman Rochester. Excellent.
        So again, there are some authorities that we could use
    more, and then you will share with us additional ones that
    you'd like to see.
        My next question is for General Graham.
        And I like that answer because, as we were talking about
    going from gray infrastructure to green infrastructure and
    being more resilient. And I know there are some folks in the
    audience as well that I saw that focus on these issues as well.
        General Graham, as you know, what works in Delaware doesn't
    necessarily work in other states.
        Each project design and problem comes with unique
    environmental and engineering needs.
        The Corps historically has had a rigid, perceived, some in
    here would say yes, I see a few shaking heads, top down
    approach to project design and execution. And in some ways,
    this top down approach is necessary, but a more ground up
    community-based approach is also needed to accurately identify
    projects and community needs.
        What flexibilities are needed for the Corps to better
    incorporate community input and to account for individual
    project needs, while still dressing the needs of regions and
    the country as a whole?
        Major General Graham. Representative Blunt Rochester, thank
    you so much for that question. And there's multiple answers to
    it.
        First and foremost, we've got to empower our divisions and
    our districts to get innovative.
        We've got to ensure that we're empowering our divisions and
    their subordinate districts to reach out to communities to make
    sure that we're clearly listening to them.
        Now, when we give authority and funding to the divisions to
    do these feasibility studies, we start a clock ticking on them.
    They've got to have them done in 3 years. We can extend it
    beyond that 3 years. Congress has given us the flexibility to
    do that with the approval of the assistant secretary.
        So we want to work rapidly to find solutions to those
    problems, as you mentioned. But we also have to be mindful that
    sometimes reaching consensus with the communities who we're
    partnering with might take a little bit more time.
        And so we're trying to strike that right balance of
    ensuring that we're delivering safely quality projects on time
    within schedule to include our feasible studies, but also
    acknowledging that reaching out and making sure that we're
    truly listening to communities, like in Charleston, might take
    a bit more time.
        And that's why I'm using Charleston as an example. We went
    from environmental assessment to a full-blown environmental
    impact statement. And the big difference there, for the lay
    people, and I know this is an audience mainly of experts, but
    it's really that we're listening more and making sure that
    citizens have their voices heard about what we're doing in
    their communities.
        Congresswoman Rochester. As a follow up, one of the
    challenges that we've all talked about is time. There really
    isn't the time.
        And I wonder as a part of the listening is also reaching
    out to communities to ask how to work better with them. I think
    that might be a good listening starting point as well. So I
    think that would be something that we'd love to follow-up on as
    well. What ways concretely and in an expeditious manner,
    because we know time is of the essence.
        My next question is to you, General Kelly.
        As you know, climate change is exacerbating coastal
    flooding across the country, but the coastlines of the United
    States and territories also face unique regional challenges.
        The Corps completed the North Atlantic Coastal
    Comprehensive Study in 2015. And you are in the process of
    finalizing the report, as was mentioned, for the South Atlantic
    Coastal Study.
        How do coastal protection and restoration challenges facing
    communities in the northeast and in the southeast of the
    Continental United States compare?
        Brigadier General Kelly. Representative Blunt Rochester,
    having been a commander in the North Atlantic Division under
    General Graham's charge, I'm very familiar with that effort.
        I was the commander in Norfolk. So much of the work that is
    now underway that General Graham and Mr. Conner will see, I was
    the commander when that commenced.
        Very familiar with the challenges in the northeast, at
    least the southern boundary I guess if you use by a watershed
    in Norfolk. But now in the southeast.
        I'd like to compare the North Atlantic Coastal Study with
    the South Atlantic Coastal Study that's underway now using that
    knowledge.
        Both studies seek understanding. Both studies address
    coastal storm, flood risk to vulnerable populations, property,
    ecosystems, and infrastructure. I think that's the same in the
    northeast and in the southeast.
        Perhaps the biggest difference when I think about the North
    Atlantic Coastal Study and where we are with the South Atlantic
    Coastal Study, is the North Atlantic Coastal Study was on the
    heels of Sandy. And though we had Irma and Maria in the
    territories, U.S. Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico, we have an
    opportunity to take that understanding that's not unique to the
    north or the south and apply it here in the Continental United
    States.
        The other thing that I offer between the two studies, and
    as I use that as my attempt to compare and contrast, what we're
    doing different with the South Atlantic Coastal Study now is
    the tools are available, the coastal hazard system.
        We're sharing and able to make decisions.
        So whatever differences there may be, we're apprized, we're
    alive and aware, and we're communicating that to our partners.
        So I think some of the communication that you asked us to
    do in a more aggressive way earlier, this particular effort is
    going to help us do that.
        And I think we'll reap benefits from it.
        Congresswoman Rochester. Thank you.
        Mr. Chairman, I am under my hour allotted time, and I yield
    back.
        Senator Carper. Thanks so much. Thanks for your wonderful
    stewardship in the State of Delaware in so many ways and for
    being here today and for providing your leadership in the House
    of
        Representatives as a member of the Energy and Commerce
    Committee.
        There's a bunch of committees in the House. The committee
    that everybody wants to be on is the Energy and Commerce
    Committee. Not everybody can serve on it. She does, which is a
    good thing for Delaware and I think a very good thing for our
    country.
        All right. Well, Generals, General Graham, General Kelly,
    we appreciate your continued dedication and service to this
    country.
        I want to say I wish all of you could be sitting up here
    with us and just watching the expressions on their faces, their
    eyes, as they talk about the work, the responsibilities that
    they have and the relish with which they address them.
        And I like to say everything I do, I know I can do better.
    And we've heard from the Army Corps that as good as they are,
    they know they can do better as well, and that we're in this
    together, and together we're going to make a huge impact and a
    huge difference at a time when that's very much needed and
    expected by the people in this country.
        So thank you.
        I never ask when we hold hearings in Washington for people
    to give a round of applause for a panel of witnesses. I don't
    think I've ever done that. But the Army Corps of Engineers are
    extraordinarily important in this State and such great huge
    help in this State. I'm going to refrain from applauding, but I
    want everybody else to. Go ahead, give them a nice round of
    applause.
        All right. That's enough. Never enough.
        Thank you so much. And you're now excused.
        And we're going to transition to our second panel. They'll
    get a big round of applause, too, I'm sure when they finish.
        We're delighted to welcome our second panel of witnesses,
    which consists of four unique voices in the coastal community.
    This includes two sitting Governors, a mayor, and the director
    of a nonprofit dedicated to coastal State issues.
        If you'll come up and join us, that would be great.
        First, let me warmly welcome not one but two Governors, two
    distinguished Governors, from the State of Louisiana, from the
    State of Delaware.
        Governor Edwards took office in 2016 as I think the 56th
    Governor of Louisiana. He did such an outstanding job, that
    Louisianians elected him to a second term in 2020. That doesn't
    always happen in this business, especially when the kind of
    challenges that we face today, as you face today as Governors.
        Before taking office, Governor Edwards, a West Point
    graduate, served as lieutenant in the U.S. Army, eventually
    rising to command a rifle company in the 82d Airborne Division
    before stepping down with the rank of captain.
        It is an honor to have you here with us in the First State,
    Governor Edwards. You're recognized for your remarks.
        Common sense, practical, smart, surrounds himself with
    really smart people, respected by Governors across the Nation,
    and certainly respected by the people within his own State.
        His senators, who are both Republicans, speak very highly
    of this man, who is a Democrat.
        We're delighted that you're here. And along with John
    Carney, somebody who is really good at working across the aisle
    and getting stuff done.
        Governor, welcome aboard.
        Governor Edwards. I'm not sure I'm on. I think I am now.
        Senator Carper. There we go.

            STATEMENT OF LOUISIANA GOVERNOR JOHN BEL EDWARDS

        Governor Edwards. Thank you, Senator Carper, Representative
    Blunt Rochester. It's great to be here with you all this
    morning. I appreciate the opportunity to be here with my
    friend, Governor Carney, as well.
        I think your committee's focus on restoring shorelines and
    riverbanks to address climate change is very important. It
    resonates with me as we strive in Louisiana to save our coast
    from what is a land loss crisis.
        Additionally, I'm grateful that you and your colleagues
    passed a Disaster Supplemental to help us recover from
    Hurricanes Ida and Laura and Delta, as well as bipartisan
    infrastructure law.
        This funding has given us a historic opportunity to make
    significant progress for our coasts, and we thank you very
    much.
        In Louisiana, we obviously depend upon a very close
    relationship with the Army Corps of Engineers. Our economy, our
    environment rely upon their success in achieving their mission
    to promote navigation, provide flood control, and restore
    aquatic ecosystems.
        Coastal and rivering areas show the need to manage for all
    three independent objectives as impacts related to climate
    change become increasingly apparent and severe.
        I commend the committee for considering how to improve the
    synergy between the Corps mission and the need to restore our
    Nation's shorelines and riverbank ecosystems. I endorse the
    heightened focus on these coastal issues and encourage the
    Corps to elevate its commitment to coastal protection and
    restoration.
        As you may know, Louisiana was built largely by the
    movement of the Mississippi River as it spread out, the
    collected soils from across the drainage basin that now covers
    31 states and two
        Canadian provinces. Yet, that river no longer sustains our
    coastal landscape.
        Since 1930, Louisiana, as you noted, Mr. Chairman,
    Louisiana has lost 2,000 square miles of coastal wetlands. And
    as you also noted, that is about the size of Delaware.
        The loss began following the great flood of 1927, when
    Congress charged the Corps with ensuring navigation and
    providing flood control.
        The Corps succeeded. But interventions such as levies
    unfortunately keep the Mississippi River sediment trapped until
    it spills into the Gulf of Mexico. And so it no longer provides
    land sustaining benefit to the coast. It doesn't replace that
    sediment and nourish our coastline. And as a result, we
    continue to lose a football field every 100 minutes.
        If it weren't for recent hurricanes, however, our State was
    poised to start building more land than we were losing for the
    first time since 1930. But just in Hurricane Ida, we lost 106
    square miles of land. Now, some of that will naturally
    regenerate, but it still will be a net loss at the end of the
    day.
        With each acre converted to open water, our vibrant
    ecosystems shrink, our infrastructure becomes more exposed, our
    communities face heightened risk, and our natural carbon sinks
    lose capacity to offset greenhouse gas emissions. Every day the
    importance of restoring our coastal and rivering ecosystems
    becomes more evident.
        Coastal land loss is an immediate existential threat to our
    State, and climate change will only intensify the impact.
        While sediment starvation and subsidence have been major
    drivers of historic land loss, sea level rise from climate
    change will become a dominant cause of our coastal wetland loss
    in the near future, magnified by more frequent and more intense
    storms.
        For decades, coastal land loss was a slow-moving
    catastrophe that was left unaddressed.
        It took the devastating hurricane season of 2005,you'll
    always remember Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, to galvanize our
    State into action.
        We created the Coastal Protection Restoration Authority,
    call it the CPRA, to be the single entity in the State charged
    with integrating hurricane protection and coastal wetland
    restoration. We recognize that protecting communities and
    coastal ecosystems do go hand in hand, and strategic planning
    is foundational.
        CPRA develops, with significant input from the public and
    stakeholders, a science-based coastal master plan every 6
    years. And each update has been adopted by our State
    legislature with unanimous support.
        That master plan calls for coastal protection and
    restoration projects over 50 years of projected investment of
    $50 billion. And I am proud to say that we are now committing
    over a billion dollars each year to improve our coast.
        Reconnecting the Mississippi River in order to harness the
    sustaining land building power of its sediment is a cornerstone
    principle of the Coastal Master Plan. And I'm also happy to say
    that we're making great progress.
        CPRA is in the final year of Federal permitting for the $2
    billion Mid-Barataria Sediment Diversion Project that would
    reconnect the
        Mississippi River to the Barataria Bay Estuary, which has
    the highest rates of land loss in south Louisiana. This project
    is a critical component in our continued recovery from the Deep
    Water Horizon oil spill, also.
        The State has entered the Federal permitting process for a
    similar project on the east bank of the Mississippi River, the
    Mid-Breton Sediment Diversion Project. And these projects have
    been supported by three consecutive Presidential
    administrations through the permitting process.
        However, even with that support, getting to the decision
    point has been a real challenge.
        One way this committee could help would be to encourage
    Federal agencies, such as the Corps, EPA, and the Council on
    Environmental Quality, to ensure timely decisionmaking.
        Simply put, we're in a race against time, and we can't
    afford unnecessary delays. The projects are designed to improve
    the overall environment. And the sooner they are constructed,
    the sooner our coastal communities can experience their
    benefits.
        After Hurricane Katrina, Louisiana greatly benefited from
    the Federal investments in the Hurricane Risk Reduction System,
    also known as HRRS.
        And we want to thank you all for the very generous help
    that you provided to our State. It provides hurricane
    protection and resiliency to the greater New Orleans area.
        And your committee heard how valuable the investment proved
    to be after Hurricane Ida made landfall this past August as one
    of the strongest storms to ever strike Louisiana.
        The previous storm that matched its intensity was 1 year
    before, which gives evidence to the increasing frequency and
    severity of our weather.
        Your committee heard how important it was and how well it
    performed withstanding the storm and preventing billions of
    dollars of property damage.
        The strengthened system protected hundreds of thousands of
    people and tens of thousands of businesses from the worst
    impacts of the storm, and it was the first major test of the
    Hurricane Storm Damage Risk Reduction System since it was
    built.
        And it absolutely performed as it was intended to.
        And I'm very proud that General Spellman testified to this
    committee that a key element of the success of that system
    during Hurricane Ida was the presence of a number of
    restoration projects that had been constructed by the State and
    by local government.
        I encourage the Corps to seek additional opportunities to
    connect ecosystem restoration projects with protection
    projects. Granting credit to restoration projects within the
    same area of the protection projects that require mitigation
    achieves this goal.
        And we have an example in Louisiana right now under
    consideration. It would be the use of the Maurepas Swamp
    Freshwater Diversion Project as mitigation for the west shore
    Lake Pontchartrain hurricane protection system. The project
    would provide in-basin mitigation by sustaining 45,000acres of
    swamp, optimize cost savings, and reduce risk to the west shore
    levy system once it's constructed.
        Through our Coastal Master Plan, Louisiana has articulated
    a clear, widely supported vision for a more sustainable coast.
    And I'm hopeful that the Corps will work closely with us to
    achieve it.
        And I want to tell you we're no longer just reacting to
    disasters. We're taking action. Earlier this month, the Climate
    Task Force that I established completed its work and submitted
    the first ever Climate Action Plan for our State, which is a
    balanced, implementable plan that charts a comprehensive
    pathway to net zero. The plan received unanimous backing from
    the members of the task force and it's the first Climate Action
    Plan created by any State in the deep south.
        I've included a copy of the executive summary of our
    Climate Action Plan as an attachment to my testimony.
        [The prepared statement of Louisiana Governor Edwards]
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        Mr. Chairman, this is the overarching view of the
    challenges Louisiana faces from major environmental threats and
    how we're responding to them. Alignment with the Corps is
    absolutely critical to our success. And therefore, I want to
    commend you and Senator Cassidy, Representative Blunt
    Rochester, and Representative Graves. This really is a
    Louisiana Delaware--or I should say a Delaware Louisiana
    effort.
        The bill would----
        Senator Carper. We did come first.
        Governor Edwards. I understand. The bill would apply the
    urgency that Louisiana has to address the challenges along our
    shores and rivers nationwide. And I greatly appreciate the
    provisions of the SHORRE Act that would help my State, such as
    authorizing the upper Barataria basin risk reduction system
    funding ecosystem restoration for (inaudible), helping the
    State receive credit from the Corps for the projects that we
    do, and conducting the lower Mississippi River Comprehensive
    Study.
        As I detail in the written statement, I also encourage the
    committee to direct the Corps to use its existing authority to
    be more flexible on the land rights it requires for restoration
    and mitigation.
        Louisiana has worked well for decades with private land
    owners on many restoration projects without purchasing land
    outright. Conservation easements are entirely sufficient.
    They're faster, they are cheaper, and they allow for a more
    favorable cost benefit ratio for these important projects. So I
    encourage the Corps to adopt the same approach.
        Obviously funding is paramount to achieving our goals.
    Revenue shared from offshore oil and gas development through
    GOMESA has been an essential funding source for coastal
    restoration protection in Louisiana. That's how we've gotten to
    over a billion dollars a year in these investments.
        And I want you to know our constitution dedicates every
    dollar to coastal restoration and protection.
        However, for years, we've received a very limited amount of
    impact assistance compared to the revenue collected with
    respect to how interior states are treated, I should say.
        While this bill is not in your committee's jurisdiction, I
    do implore you to support the Rise Act. The legislation makes
    long overdue improvements to GOMESA. And for the first time
    ever, would establish revenue sharing for offshore wind
    production, which is important for your state and for mine.
    Offshore wind is something that we are strongly pursuing.
        Mr. Chairman, we've developed an ecosystem restoration
    program that is as comprehensive and forward thinking as any
    other such plan in the world. We are attempting to restore a
    coastal ecosystem where over 2 million people live, where
    billions of dollars of industrial investment in critical
    infrastructure exists. The importance of our working coast to
    our State and to the country simply cannot be overstated. And
    so we must restore it, we must protect it.
        And ensuring the Corps has the authority but also the
    direction to increase its focus on coastal shoreline and river
    and ecosystems is of the utmost importance to the overall
    sustainability of the State of Louisiana.
        So I thank you for the opportunity to be here today, and I
    look forward to receiving and answering your questions.
        Senator Carper. Governor Edwards, we're delighted to be
    your partner in all of this and other issues as well.
        How many people here are from Delaware?
        Raise your hand. How many here have actually personally met
    Governor John Carney? How many of you think you know him pretty
    well? I'll mention a couple of things that you may not know and
    then yield to him.
        We talked a lot about football fields.
        Every 100 minutes they lose in Louisiana a piece of land
    the size of a football field to the sea.
        John Carney knows a thing or two about football fields. And
    Governor Edwards is a high school football star. He was a great
    athlete, basketball, football, other sports. But he was All
    State quarterback for us. Played in the Blue Gold Game.
        He went onto school. He was wait listed at Ohio State, but
    he managed to get into Dartmouth somehow and was a stellar
    athlete there. All Ivy defensive back as I recall there.
        And came back to Delaware. And my recollection is he was
    great at resume, but a guy named Tubby Raymond was our football
    coach for like ever at the University of Delaware. 300 wins,
    which, as you know, is a lot of wins for college football. And
    John Carney was one of his assistants during part of that time.
        And later on, worked as a top aide in Delaware to Joe Biden
    when Joe was a mere mortal.
        He was our U.S. Senator.
        Ended up helping run New Castle County, where about two-
    thirds of our people live. And as the deputy chief of staff to
    a lucky Governor at one time, he negotiated the purchase of the
    Port of Wilmington from the city of Wilmington, which had no
    money to invest in the port, and engineered the turnaround for
    the Port of Wilmington, which is now just a standout port and
    one we're enormously proud of.
        He helped lead a team of Delaware officials to Wall Street
    and convince the major rating agencies, Moody's, Standard and
    Poor, and Fitch, for the first in the history of Delaware, to
    raise our credit rating to a AAA. Proud it's rating that we
    continue to enjoy.
        Other than that, he's not done much. That's just a very
    brief overview of what he's done. But the real test for John
    Carney was to be Governor during the worst pandemic in 100
    years.
        I was fortunate to be Governor during eight good years.
    Started hard, and then it got better and better and better. But
    he's had to lead us through incredibly difficult, and he's done
    it with the heart and with great communication and a
    willingness just to be courageous and to provide the leadership
    by example that we so admire in our staff.
        Other than that, can you think of anything else good to
    say? That just scratches the surface.
        That just scratches the surface.
        But he's now our Governor. Serves us----we have only one
    representative, and that's now Lisa. But served as our
    Congressman for 6 years and did so extraordinarily.
        Go through the Wilmington train station.
        There's a great photograph of John Carney, Chris Coons, and
    I walking arm in arm down the platform of the train station, a
    shot taken of us from behind.
        And it's one of my all-time favorites.
        And what I will say to other, when I get off the train at
    the end of the day and we have people from other states, they
    say to me, we walk by the pictures, beautiful pictures, and say
    who are those three guys. And I tell them who. And they say
    John Carney, you're so lucky that he's your Governor. You know,
    we really are. We really are.
        John, welcome. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you
    for being a staunch advocate for coastal funding and for
    fighting to help keep our beaches and keep them some of the
    finest in the world.
        And you're recognized for your opening statement. Thank
    you.

               STATEMENT OF DELAWARE GOVERNOR JOHN CARNEY

        Governor Carney. Thank you very much, Senator Carper. I
    almost called you Governor Carper there. When somebody
    mentioned that earlier, I was ready to say you want to be
    Governor again, you can have it.
        Thanks for that introduction. It reminds me of something my
    brother-in-law says, which is the older we get, the better we
    used to be. I think in my case, people, it's been so long,
    people don't remember. So they can't verify the facts there.
        I've had a great example in leadership with you, Mr.
    Chairman. And I appreciate everything that you've done for me
    in my public service.
        Senator Carper. John Carney is oftentimes referred to as
    one of the two finest Governors we've ever had.
        Governor Carney. I'm really delighted to be here with
    Governor Edwards. We are colleagues in the National Governors
    Association.
        He's one of the most respected Governors in our country,
    for the reasons that you outlined and you can hear his command
    of the material in his opening statement. We certainly
    appreciate his service to our country. He's a graduate from the
    U.S. Military Academy at West Point and his service there.
        But he's been a great leader in a very difficult time for
    the State of Louisiana. I'm just delighted that he's here with
    us.
        I'm also happy to be here with so many of the elected
    officials that are our partners. You're going to hear from the
    mayor here at Slaughter Beach. I missed the tour yesterday.
    Apologize for that. But they are clearly partners in all this
    work.
        I couldn't recognize most of them because they had masks
    on, but I did see Mayor Becker across from me. And he's a great
    partner in Lewes.
        Last year, the Department of Natural Resources and
    Environmental Control launched Delaware's Climate Action Plan,
    Governor. We heard about Louisiana's Climate Action Plan. And I
    would recommend this to every Delawarean. It's got great
    information. It's really an easy read. It sets the technical
    standards right at the top.
        It was the result of a long process involving residents,
    businesses, and technical experts. Congresswoman, to your point
    about community engagement.
        This roadmap shows how Delaware can prepare for climate
    change and must prepare for climate change in the decades ahead
    by reducing two main objections. Reducing carbon emissions and
    focusing on coastal resilience, which is what this hearing is
    about and your legislation.
        In 2017, Delaware joined the US Climate Alliance with many
    other states and local governments, committing to reduce our
    carbon emissions by at least 26 percent by 2025 over 2005
    levels. We're not there yet, but we're making progress.
        Right now, the estimate is that we're between 18 and 19
    percent reduction. So we do have some work to do there.
        We're here today, though, to talk about the impacts of sea
    level rise caused by climate change. Delaware has already
    experienced over one foot of sea level rise at the Lewes tidal
    gauge since 1900. So over the last century, a foot of sea rise
    there in Lewes. By mid century, sea levels are projected to
    rise another nine to 23 inches. And by the next century, up to
    an additional five feet.
        This threatens our Atlantic beaches and bay communities,
    neighborhoods, businesses. And for the residents of those
    communities importantly, it threatens their way of life.
        Delaware, as has been mentioned, is our country's lowest
    lying State. Governor, you probably thought you were the lowest
    lying State.
        And I guess in some areas, you're below sea level best I
    could tell.
        Here in Sussex County, tourism employs 17,000 people and
    contributes $213 million in State and local taxes. These might
    not sound like big numbers to our friends in larger states,
    including in Louisiana, but those are big numbers for the State
    of Delaware, with just under a million residents.
        During COVID-19, we've made decisions with the
    understanding that you need to have a healthy community to have
    a healthy economy. You got to strike a balance there. It's also
    true that you need to have a healthy environment to have a
    health economy. One, in particular in this case, affects the
    other.
        To that end, we're grateful, extremely grateful for the
    investments in infrastructure that are coming to Delaware
    through the bipartisan infrastructure bill that both of you
    were part of passing, championed by you and by the president.
        And I know it achieves exactly what President Biden
    intended, which was a bipartisan piece of legislation that
    enables us to build back better. And I think those words hit
    the nail on the head when it comes to climate change, because
    these investments will give us the opportunity to build back
    better by embedding climate resiliency in all infrastructure
    projects and focus on reducing carbon emissions.
        This will help us meet those goals for carbon emission
    reductions by 2025, because it includes a $17 million
    investment, which is a big number in Delaware, to expand
    Delaware's electric vehicle charging network. And this is a
    critical investment as we move toward more, to electric vehicle
    transportation in our State. And it's critical to us meeting
    those carbon emissions.
        Congresswoman Blunt Rochester mentioned the idea of nature-
    based features in resilience projects. And we know of one. We
    have an active one right now in Prime Hook Wildlife Refuge,
    which is a Federal-owned asset. And they've restored the dunes
    which were destroyed by a number of northeast storms over the
    last ten or more years.
        They have restored those dunes with the expectation that
    they will let Mother Nature runs its course in the years ahead,
    as opposed to continuing to restore the dunes on a kind of
    regular basis as the storms come through.
        You can see the effect there more dramatically I think than
    anywhere because the parking lot that used to be at the edge of
    the beach is now 20 yards out into the Bay. And that's really
    what the kinds of effects that we're talking about here in our
    State.
        The ocean and bay beaches are part of Delaware's history.
    The Delaware Bay was a lifeline and resource during the early
    Colonial period. It fueled transportation and a maritime
    economy that ultimately supported the foundation of our State.
        Today we are approaching a new normal under climate change.
    Storms, hurricanes, and other weather events are more
    prevalent. We're seeing so-called 100-year floods every few
    years instead of once in a lifetime it seems.
        When I took the oath of office to become Delaware's 74th
    Governor, I pledged not only to uphold our constitution, but
    to, and I quote, respect the right of future generations to
    share the rich historic and natural heritage of our State.
        Both of you have taken that pledge before. We live in a
    beautiful State. And we should take care to preserve that
    heritage as we pledged to do. That includes upholding the goals
    laid out in our Climate Action Plan, incorporating the action
    plan's objectives into the resources provided by the Federal
    bipartisan infrastructure bill. And we will do that.
        We can only do this by limiting carbon emissions. We need
    to expand clean and renewable energy, put in place energy
    efficiency measures, transition our transportation sector to
    zero emission vehicles, and reduce and manage greenhouse gases
    beyond carbon dioxide.
        We also need to prepare for the environmental challenges
    we're just now beginning to see. Resiliency efforts, like
    improving real time data collection of coastal flooding and
    providing training tools and technical assistance on climate
    change impacts may sound simple, but they're critical for us to
    be prepared and to act.
        Let me end by thanking both of you for your leadership for
    our great State. You, Senator Carper, for being a mentor, for
    your leadership of this committee, and for this piece of
    legislation that will help us as we attempt to implement
        Delaware's Action Plan and address the coastal resiliency
    issues that we'll need to address.
        Thanks very much.
        [The prepared statement of Governor Carney follows:]
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        [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7534.021

        Senator Carper. Thank you so much. And thank you. We have
    mentored each other. And I might say the same thing for our
    Congresswoman. And thanks for your extraordinary leadership,
    John, and for being with us today.
        We're going to hear from Mayor Lock, we're going to hear
    from Derek, and then I'm going to take a quick break, take a
    phone call, get an update on the Ukraine, and come right back.
    And while I'm doing that, I'm going to ask Lisa to preside for
    the beginning of the questioning of this panel.
        Mayor, 46 years ago, 46 years ago. I understand you and
    your mom and dad bought a place in Slaughter Beach. And still,
    you're not just still living there, still have a place there,
    but you're the mayor, you're the mayor.
        Have you ever been the vice mayor at Slaughter Beach? Have
    you ever been the vice mayor?

            STATEMENT OF SLAUGHTER BEACH MAYOR KATHLEEN LOCK

        Mayor Lock. I was.
        Senator Carper. How about secretary? How about treasurer?
    How about Council person at-large?
        All the seats. You've been through all of them. And you
    retired from the government consulting arena after enjoying a
    career specializing in large-scale Federal Government
    procurement and acquisition projects. You are amazing.
        And you're a great gift from your parents. And we're glad
    that they brought you here all those years ago and you stuck
    around and continue to provide wonderful leadership for not
    just Slaughter Beach, but for all of our beaches. Thank you.
        You're recognized.
        Mayor Lock. Thank you, Senator. And thank you, Chairman
    Carper and Congresswoman Blunt Rochester and esteemed members
    of this panel who are testifying with me today. It's an honor
    to be here.
        It was an honor to have been invited, and I can't tell you
    how happy I am to be representing small coastal towns as we
    confront the challenges of sea level rise and increasingly
    violent coastal storms.
        On behalf of the entire Delaware Bay communities, I would
    like to thank you for this opportunity.
        Let me tell you about Slaughter Beach quickly, if I might.
    Slaughter Beach is one of three incorporated towns on the
    Delaware Bay.
        Senator Carper. First of all, take 30seconds. Tell us why
    it's called Slaughter Beach.
        Everybody asks me that question. And I say call the mayor.
        Mayor Lock. There are so many reasons.
        Senator Carper. All right. We'll make that an addendum to
    your testimony.
        Mayor Lock. Some stories are much funnier than others.
        Senator Carper. Oh, good, good. Humor is everything.
        Mayor Lock. But the town consists of over 12,000 acres, 98
    percent of which are in conservation and owned by the Federal
    Government Department of Interior as part of Prime Hook
    National Wildlife Refuge or the State of Delaware, the Milford
    Net Conservation Area, or the Delaware Nature Society.
        We enjoy living next to an unspoiled and pristine saltwater
    marsh. And it is one of the last few saltwater marshes left in
    the United States.
        The residents of Slaughter Beach are stewards of over three
    miles of Delaware Bay shoreline, and we take our stewardship
    responsibilities very seriously.
        We are a horseshoe crab sanctuary and a certified wildlife
    habitat community.
        We maintain 20 access points to the Bay shore and welcome
    the public to our beaches.
        Our beaches are primary breeding ground for horseshoe crabs
    and are an important stop on the Atlantic flyway for migrating
    shorebirds, most especially the endangered red knot, a small
    bird that feeds on horseshoe crab eggs to fuel their annual
    migration from the furthest tip of South America to their
    Arctic breeding grounds.
        As mayor, I bring the perspective of a frontline community
    leader who lives with both the pleasures and threats of the
    sea. I've worked closely with the mayor of Bowers Beach, Ada
    Puzzo, and the mayor of Lewes, Ted Becker, who is here today.
        As we follow the progress of the U.S. Army
        Corps of Engineers' beneficial use of dredge material for
    the Delaware River Feasible Study, we were delighted by its
    inclusion in the Water Resources Development Act of 2020. And a
    special thanks goes to you, Senator Carper, and to you,
    Congresswoman Blunt Rochester, for your leadership and your
    support in making that happen for the Delaware Bay communities.
        I'd like to say that horseshoe crabs play a significant
    role in human health and wellness. I recently read about the
    critical role that the blood of horseshoe crabs played in the
    development of a COVID-19 vaccine. And there are countless
    other pharmaceutical breakthroughs that have been dependent on
    the blood of horseshoe crabs.
        And due to coastal storms, horseshoe crabs require sandy
    beaches to lay their eggs and breed. And due to the increasing
    prevalence of coastal storms, we are losing our sandy beaches
    and horseshoe crab breeding grounds at an alarming rate.
        We had a storm that we experienced on October 29th of this
    year. I do have some pictures? That I neglected to put up. But
    it shows the loss of breeding grounds, a habitat breeding
    grounds, and how every beach on the Delaware Bay was impacted
    and affected by this one relatively mild storm.
        Last year, the Town of Slaughter Beach, and I'm going to
    briefly touch on this because I believe it shows the importance
    of partnerships that we need to sustain to manage our coastal
    and preserve our coastal properties. Last year, the Town of
    Slaughter Beach invoiced approximately $90,000 in property
    taxes. That was it. And of that amount of money, 60,000 went to
    collect trash and recycling fees, leaving our entire operating
    budget, with the exception of what we get from grants, at
    $30,000 for our operating budget.
        I think it displays the need for the partnership that we
    have been trying desperately to build with Federal, State,
    county, and local officials.
        I'm very pleased, because of that, I'm very pleased with
    the provisions of the SHORRE Act and would, again, like to
    thank you, Congresswoman Blunt Rochester and Chairman Carper,
    for cosponsoring this bipartisan and bicameral bill and for
    your involvement and concern in Delaware's coastal towns,
    beaches, dunes, and wetlands. You are national leaders who
    truly understand the importance of our coastal communities and
    the vulnerabilities we endure as the global climate warms,
    weather becomes more erratic, and seas rise at unprecedented
    rates.
        This legislation envisions a better way for the Nation to
    prepare for future needs to address the problems that will only
    be exacerbated in the near future.
        We, on the coast, rely on our partnerships with county,
    State, and Federal Government officials to help us protect and
    sustain our communities. In Delaware, the Department of Natural
    Resources is an environmental control, is the non-Federal
    partner on Corps projects. In our experience, however,
    communication between the Corps, DNREC, and the communities in
    need of assistance is limited, at best.
        One exception to this is when Senator Carper's staff
    arranged for a Corps 101 meeting for local Delaware
    communities. That day, 3 years ago, now, was extremely
    informative. And had it not been for Senator Carper's staff's
    understanding and collaboration and information sharing that
    was desperately needed, I doubt Corps staff would have had the
    vision to coordinate the effort. And I suspect it will not
    happen again unless someone outside the Corps arranges it. This
    needs to change.
        I implore Corps and DNREC leadership to strengthen
    communication channels and see the world through the lens of
    local elected officials. We usually have little or no knowledge
    of how the Corps function or the regulatory constraints that it
    must operate under.
        And I'd like to note that frontline community leadership
    changes hands frequently. So annual outreach efforts to educate
    community leaders is a key component of cooperation and
    collaboration.
        The SHORRE Act is a valuable tool in clarifying the Corps'
    mission, modernizing the Corps, and streamlining Corps
    interaction with the communities it serves.
        I call out three specific inclusions in the SHORRE Act that
    I'm particularly happy about. First, the expansion of the
    Corps' existing river flood mitigation and restoration
    authority that will now include shoreline protection and
    restoration for the first time as a primary mission of the
    Corps.
        Second, the identification of Delaware Bay beaches as a
    priority area for implementation of projects under the amended
    authority.
        Finally, and perhaps the best news, section 15 modifies the
    Delaware Beneficial Use of Dredge Material Feasibility Study to
    permit the use of alternative borrow sources. This will
    significantly reduce the cost to nourish the Delaware Bay
    beaches.
        This section also includes a special rule that allows the
    Corps to provide emergency services to any of the bay beaches
    included in the beneficial use study under the existing
    continuing authority.
        These inclusions will result in increased opportunities to
    work with the Corps that we on the Delaware shore have not
    enjoyed in the past.
        Once again, thank you for providing me with the opportunity
    to speak on this very critical issue.
        [The prepared statement of Mayor Lock follows:]
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        Senator Carper. Mayor, thanks for your leadership in
    Slaughter Beach and thank you for extending that leadership
    well beyond Slaughter Beach and joining us today. Thanks so
    much.
        Next, Derek, Derek Brockbank.
        Mr. Brockbank is the executive director of the Coastal
    States Organization, which represents our nation's coastal
    states, territories, and commonwealth. Prior to that, he served
    as the executive director for the American Shore and Beach
    Preservation Association and as campaign director for a
    collision effort to restore the Mississippi River delta and
    coastal Louisiana.
        Mr. Brockbank, you're recognized for your statements. We're
    delighted that you have joined us. Thank you so much for
    coming.

       STATEMENT OF DEREK BROCKBANK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COASTAL
                          STATES ORGANIZATION

        Mr. Brockbank. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Carper,
    Representative Blunt Rochester.
        Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of
    Coastal States Organization.
        I am honored to be on a panel of what I consider absolute
    coastal champions at multiple levels of government.
        Since 1970, CSO has served as the collective voice for the
    Nation's coastal states and territories on Federal policy
    issues. CSO members are Governor-appointed delegates who run or
    oversee State coastal zone management programs.
        Our State members work closely with the U.S. Army Corps of
    Engineers to plan, permit, and implement projects in the
    coastal zone, serving variously as partner, client, and
    occasionally State watchdog of the Corps. And on behalf of our
    members, CSO has worked and continues to work with the Corps to
    develop and advance policies to better manage resources in the
    coastal zone.
        The topic of today's coastal hearing is of utmost
    importance to every coastal manager in the country. Coastal
    managers are facing unprecedented challenges, both caused and
    exacerbated by climate change. But perhaps the most acute
    climate change impacts along the coast are in shoreline
    management and restoration.
        Along saltwater coasts, what we've heard a lot about today,
    rising seas and increasing storm intensity are expanding flood
    zones and will increasingly inundate low-lying coastal areas.
        But along freshwater great lakes coasts, lake levels are
    also fluctuating at unprecedented rates. This has led to
    increased pressure to restore our hardened shorelines on both
    saltwater and freshwater coasts.
        Although many communities are now beginning to look at what
    we call managed retreat, the ability to move infrastructure
    away from the water's edge, but the reality is that both are
    needed. We cannot just restore or retreat. We need to restore
    and retreat. Determining when and how to restore and when and
    where to retreat is at the heart of coastal resilience.
        Fortunately, coastal communities and Congress have made
    significant strides to address coastal resilience. In
    particular, the Infrastructure and Investment and Jobs Act,
    together with funding and other recent supplemental
    appropriations has provided states, the Corps, and other
    Federal agencies an incredible opportunity to restore and
    improve the resilience of the nation's shorelines.
        In the past few word is Congress has enacted strong
    policies for the Corps on coastal resilience and we've seen
    great improvement in the Corps' consideration of climate
    impacts.
        However, the Corps' willingness or ability to use natural
    infrastructure and focus on shoreline restoration across the
    country has not reached the level of importance it should given
    the magnitude of challenges from climate change.
        Therefore, CSO is very pleased to support the SHORRE Act,
    which significantly improves the Corps' ability to address
    coastal restoration and resilience by elevating shoreline and
    riverbank protection and restoration to a primary mission of
    the Corps.
        In many coastal regions, restoring a shoreline can serve
    many purposes in the community.
        Integrated beach, dune, and back bay wetland systems that
    use natural and nature-based features can help a community
    adapt to increasing flood risk, improve ecological value, and
    can provide economic stability.
        This balanced approach to shoreline restoration and
    management might not fit neatly into any of the Corps' current
    mission areas but is essential to a functioning and resilient
    coast in an era of climate change.
        CSO believes making shoreline restoration a primary mission
    of the Corps will help develop these multi-use projects.
        Additionally, the SHORRE Act gives local project sponsors
    increased flexibility to account for climate change in the
    design and construction of coastal projects and changes project
    funding structures to support coastal communities, with special
    consideration of economically disadvantaged communities.
        And while CSO strongly supports the SHORRE Act, we would
    encourage the committee to go to do even more to get the Corps
    to prepare coastal communities for climate effects, climate
    impacts, including planning on longer time horizons and
    reforming the Corps' benefit cost ratio process.
        The Corps should recognize that although there are
    projects, there are coastal projects that are often built for
    50-year authorizations, local sponsors' expectations are that
    these projects last significantly longer than 50 years.
    However, given a rapidly changing climate, coastal projects are
    facing vastly different considerations than when they were when
    they were originally authorized.
        The Corps should plan and develop transition pathways for
    existing projects that are reaching their expiration and
    develop coastal adaptation projects for 50 to 200-year
    projections for sea level rise and, if possible, lake level
    change.
        Finally, the current BCR analysis is keeping the Corps
    stuck in 20th century thinking.
        Thrilled to hear some of the progress that's being made,
    the testimony from Colonel Kelly about how that BCR is
    changing, but the reality of the coast is that it's multi-use.
        Resilient coastlines have ecological benefits, social
    cohesion benefits, public health benefits, even benefits of
    racial justice. The Corps should be developing and using a
    process to better quantify and incorporate the value of those
    benefits. And we know they are beginning to develop that
    process. But the sooner that can become used across the Corps,
    the better off our coastlines will be.
        Furthermore, the Corps' current BCR puts the Corps in a
    position of investing in areas of existing wealth. Congress has
    begun to direct the Corps to consider how to build resilient
    coastal infrastructure for economically disadvantaged
    communities, but this should go beyond pilot projects and
    reduce cost share for historically marginalized communities
    that have born the brunt of poor coastal planning and
    decisionmaking.
        The Corps needs to plan projects for a resilient and
    equitable future, not simply rebuild the coastlines of the past
    in ways that withstand climate impacts.
        However, reevaluating the Corps BCR must start with a long
    overdue implementation of the PRNG, as we heard from the
    previous panel. And until we see what the Corps is recommending
    to themselves for greater inclusion of benefits through the
    PRNG, it's hard to make specific recommendations for how
    Congress can direct the Corps.
        I appreciate this opportunity to testify on behalf of CSO
    before the committee on this critically important topic.
        Just to reiterate, Congress can make an important step by
    passing the SHORRE Act as part of (inaudible) 2022. We would
    also encourage Congress to consider other studies and policies
    that would help direct the Corps to improve the nation's
    coastal resilience to provide oversight and guidance to the
    Corps and improving the BCR and ensuring that project decisions
    are based on forward-thinking values that consider our future
    climate and principles of equity and justice.
        We look forward to working with the committee, all of
    Congress, and the Army Corps on these and other important
    coastal issues.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Brockbank follows:]
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        Senator Carper. Thank you for that. We look forward to
    continuing to work with you and the folks that you lead.
        I'm going to run to get a quick update on the Ukraine. I'll
    be back in just a few minutes.
        In the meantime, I leave it in very good hands. Our
    Congresswoman.
        Congresswoman Rochester. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        And thank you all for your thoughtful and thorough
    testimonies.
        I also want to reiterate what Mr. Brockbank said about you
    being coastal champions. I think your testimonies really showed
    that.
        And also thank you so much for the focus and inclusion on
    all communities across our country.
        My first question is for Governor Edwards.
        Again, thank you so much for joining us today.
        The Corps has multiple authorities that permit the agency
    to conduct community outreach and planning assistance that help
    communities better understand Corps projects and design their
    own.
        As the Governor of a State with significant rural and
    coastal populations, as well as major cities like New Orleans,
    how might the Corps provide better outreach to communities with
    diverse needs?
        And it leads right from your last testimony.
        Governor Edwards. Thank you very much for the question,
    Representative Blunt Rochester.
        And I think Derek did an excellent job of summarizing how
    important this is, because while we get attached to what we
    have and we want to maintain it, and that's very important,
    sometimes we have to go beyond what we've done in the past,
    especially in the area of equity, because it wouldn't be an
    equitable problem had we done it right the first time. And so I
    think this is really important.
        And what is going to have to happen I believe is, and the
    SHORRE Act helps to address this, the Corps is going to have to
    get off----continue to do its primary missions, flood control,
    aquatic ecosystem restoration, and navigation, but we have to
    elevate to an equal priority, put on par the mission of coastal
    restoration and ecosystem restoration. And then within that
    framework, make sure that we're doing so much of what the Biden
    administration is talking about with respect to equity, and it
    becomes a focus.
        And by the way, it can be hard to define and quantify, but
    that doesn't mean it's not important and that we shouldn't try
    and that we can't do better.
        And so that overall framework I think should permeate what
    the Corps does every day. And then it should guide the
    allocation of resources, which, even though we're going to be
    much more generous as a country with the Corps than we've ever
    been in the past, they will still be resource restrained. They
    won't be able to do everything, but at least they will have a
    focus and a mission that drives more investment in these
    communities that have been suffering for so long.
        Congresswoman Rochester. Thank you so much.
        And as you mentioned, I mean one of the core functions of
    this Corps Act is to include that fourth mission for the Corps
    of restoration and protection of our coastlines as well as our
    riverbanks.
        And I think, as you specifically kind of tying it back,
    when we--the reason why I think we have gotten the broad-based
    support is because we are looking at these things that
    intersect with different populations.
        As the mayor mentioned, Slaughter Beach for the Corps might
    seem like a very small population. And so it becomes
    disadvantaged in a way from maybe larger places.
        And so that's why this focus and looking at cost benefit in
    a different way is really important for this moment.
        Governor, I also wanted to ask, the Town of Grand Isle and
    its barrier island were severely damaged by Hurricane Zeta in
    the fall of 2020 and then again by Hurricane Ida, less than 1
    year later as you mentioned.
        Supplemental funds were provided to help repair the
    federally authorized coastal storm risk management project
    there.
        Given that climate change poses a compounding threat to
    communities like Grand Isle, should the Corps be authorized to
    rebuild coastal storm risk management projects to a more
    resilient and sustainable level when addressing post disaster
    repairs? Why or why not?
        I think I know the answer. Just asking.
        Governor Edwards. Yes, ma'am.
        Congresswoman Rochester. For the record.
        Governor Edwards. Yes, ma'am. For the record, the answer is
    yes, they obviously need to be able to do that.
        It really gets back to the build back better. If we know
    that the storms that we are currently experiencing are
    absolutely obliterating what we have built before, then
    continuing to rebuild to that standard is just foolish because
    it's not going to provide protection, it's not a use good of
    the funding.
        And I will tell you, I've been Governor for a little over 6
    years, I have made multiple trips to Grand Isle to look at
    those systems and to implore the Corps to do better and not
    just go back and redo what they've done.
        And I think they're thinking along these lines now for the
    first time. And it's a great leap for the folks down in Grand
    Isle as well. But still a lot of work to be done there.
        And Ida just slammed Grand Isle. We have people who are in
    their 80's, and they've been through hurricanes forever. This
    is, many of them, this is the first time they ever left the
    island for a hurricane. And when they came back, they saw
    devastation that they had never seen before.
        And so it's very important that we improve the protection
    system there and make that island more resilient. Yes, ma'am.
        Congresswoman Rochester. Thank you, thank you.
        And Madam Mayor, Mayor Lock, thank you for your leadership.
        In addition to the economic concerns, Beach is home, as you
    talked about, to a diverse ecosystem featuring a symbiotic
    relationship between one of the largest horseshoe populations
    in the world, which I understand from the vice mayor goes back
    before the dinosaurs. I mean people here are shaking their
    heads as well. And it relies on horseshoe crab eggs as a food
    source.
        How important is a healthy shoreline for the continued
    survival of the local horseshoe crab population, and by
    extension, the threatened red knot and other migratory birds?
        Mayor Lock. Well, certainly, Congresswoman, it is a
    critical component of the health and longevity and the
    continued sustainability of horseshoe crabs. They lay their
    eggs on sandy beaches.
        You were at Slaughter Beach yesterday. We were able to see
    some of them on our beaches. These are clumsy, it's a clumsy
    species that crawls ashore.
        Congresswoman Rochester. No offense.
        Mayor Lock. Yes. Please don't take offense.
        They're a slow moving, clumsy species. But they wouldn't be
    able to traverse a hardscape. A sandy beach is really what they
    need for their spawning.
        And as I tried to say, they are critical to the health and
    wellness of human life. I know the pharmaceutical companies,
    I've read articles, they're trying to find something that would
    replace the blood of horseshoe crabs. Haven't been totally
    successful at doing that.
        Congresswoman Rochester. Thank you so much.
        I also wanted to ask you, last year Slaughter Beach
    completed a study designed to evaluate management options for
    the persistent accumulation of a mix of seaweed and marsh
    vegetation caused in part by the sheltering effects of nearby
    Corps-constructed jetties.
        And again, yesterday I got a chance to see this on the
    tour, exactly how the impact of all the sand coming down,
    hitting the jetty, and what that would mean. And this debris is
    detrimental to the local horseshoe crab population.
        But we also know the jetty, all of this is important as
    well to our national security and our safety as well. So one of
    the solutions proposed by the authors of the study was to
    establish a pilot program for the beneficial use of the
    material in the construction and reinforcement of the dunes
    lining Slaughter Beach.
        Since the completion of the study, what steps have been
    taken to manage the organic debris and what lessons have you
    learned throughout the entire process?
        Mayor Lock. That's a great question.
        Actually, we have been in discussions with Delaware
    Department of Environmental Control on this issue of habitat
    restoration for horseshoe crabs and the red knot, the Division
    of Fish and Wildlife.
        And we've asked for their support as we go forward to apply
    for grants to help us remove this buildup that's caused by the
    jetty.
        But again, we're going to the State to look for a
    partnership and develop a partnership, when, in fact, it
    appears from the studies that this is caused by the
    deterioration of the jetty that was allowed to deteriorate in
    this century.
        So it's a multifaceted issue, a multifaceted problem. And
    we're looking--we're only at the stage where we're looking at
    grants from the partnership with the Delaware Estuary to help
    us repair the damage.
        Congresswoman Rochester. I want to also highlight that part
    of what this hearing is also showing is, again, the
    partnerships and the need for the partnerships.
        We actually have Secretary Sean Garvin behind the Governor.
    And I want to give him credit as well for the work that he is
    doing with the communities as well.
        My next question is for Mr. Brockbank.
        The Federal Government has sometimes struggled to provide
    coastal communities the assistance they need to address the
    effects of climate change. Fortunately, many coastal
    communities across the country have taken great strides to
    protect their shorelines despite that lack of Federal support.
        Absent support from the Federal government, how are coastal
    communities addressing the impacts of climate change? And as a
    follow-up, what more could the Federal Government do to amplify
    these efforts?
        And I know you said we're waiting to hear more from the
    Corps on some of the suggestions you could give us. But what
    are some of the lessons learned or the things that we should be
    amplifying from local communities?
        Mr. Brockbank. I was wondering if maybe the Governors could
    hold up their Climate Action Plans again because I think that's
    probably the best example of what the states are doing.
        Congresswoman Rochester. We're not saying anything that
    Delaware's plan is bigger than Louisiana.
        Governor Edwards. This is a summary.
        Congresswoman Rochester. Just saying, Governor Carney,
    again.
        Mr. Brockbank. I mean I think the planning efforts that are
    happening at states, huge credit to both Governors for pushing
    these through.
        But in Louisiana, they've been moving forward with a State
    Coastal Master Plan for 20 years now almost and have gone
    through multiple Republican and Democratic administrations,
    it's passed unanimously.
        So there's a tremendous amount of planning that's going on.
    States are increasingly investing their own funding.
        But I think one of the real challenges, we've often seen in
    big project implementation, you can do sort of small living
    shorelines, good beach projects, you know, small pocket beach
    projects, but those big programs have too often relied on
    disasters and the funding that comes after the disasters.
    Whether it's the BP oil spill, whether it's a hurricane.
        And so I think the states have been able to do this
    incredible planning work. But now we need, Congress and the
    Federal Government needs to put the pocketbook to the test and
    actually invest in these projects and actually invest ahead of
    time.
        It's been tremendous to see the infrastructure bill move
    forward, but that's a one-time down payment. There needs to be
    some consistent, regular funding so that the Governors and the
    Corps can actually plan their project out, farther out.
        Congresswoman Rochester. Excellent.
        And I'm going to ask Mayor Lock, and it kind of dovetails
    into that question, too, as was already mentioned, Delaware is
    the lowest lying State in the country. And I will say lowest
    mean.
        I always have to add that mean in there so that Florida and
    Louisiana don't come back at us and say no, we're lower, we're
    lower. But Delaware is and has experienced sea level rise
    greater than eight inches along its coast since 1960.
        On top of that, increasingly frequent and intense severe
    weather events, and as you called them, Mayor Lock, violent,
    violent coastal storms, including Hurricane Ida and the recent
    nor'easter, continue to damage our coastline.
        Can you talk about, again, how your community, how your
    town has dealt with sea level rise and climate change, how it's
    affected you, but also what kind of things you're doing at a
    local level to mitigate?
        And I know it's micro, and we've got macro.
        Mayor Lock. Again, an excellent question, Congresswoman.
        We have, at a local level, we've been frustrated a bit by
    what we view as communication barriers between the partners
    that we're looking toward to provide guidance to protect
    against sea level rise.
        I'll be honest with you, this is way above my pay grade.
        Congresswoman Rochester. Would you like me to take the
    question back?
        Mayor Lock. Please.
        Congresswoman Rochester. But again, this is a great dialog.
    And we're fortunate that we actually do have a Governor who has
    been a Congressman, has been a Governor, knows financial
    sector, and actually has a plan.
        And Governor Carney, if you could just share what you think
    are some of the challenges and opportunities of this moment.
        Governor Carney. Well, I think Mr. Brockbank has really hit
    the nail on the head, right. Up until this point, in my
    experience anyway, and we have folks behind me--and by the way,
    when I'm talking, I think Sean Garvin's lips are actually
    moving. He's got----
        Congresswoman Rochester. Hence the mask?
        Governor Carney. I think he's got Tony Pratt sitting next
    to him, who knows more about----has forgotten more about this
    than many of us know.
        So for so long, these restoration project shave been based
    on a diaster-driven kind of an approach. And that's how the
    money flows and it's based on cost benefit ratios that don't
    consider some of the things you and the mayor talked about and
    that are important parts of the calculation, whether there are
    environmental damages, whether you're comparing a town like
    Slaughter Beach to a town like Lewes, with Mayor Becker.
    They're very different in terms of size, in terms of property
    values, and all of that.
        So how do you, and I think the SHORRE Act attempts to do
    this, is how do you consider other factors in analyzing a go or
    no go or limitations around what the Corps would participate
    in.
        There's a project, an inland project that comes to mind in
    my experience called Glenville.
        And you may remember the community of Glenville, which was
    flooded out completely by one of the hurricanes probably 25 or
    more years ago. 1989 I think was the first big flood there.
        And it never quite made the cut with respect to the cost
    benefit analysis. Wasn't a high income community. And
    ultimately, this step, in part under Governor Carper's
    leadership, took the bull by the horns and provided resources,
    frankly, to purchase the properties, which were built in the
    flood plane in the first instance.
        And so those kinds of projects, projects like situations
    like what we saw and we're seeing right here in Slaughter
    Beach. How do you factor those in to a new way of proceeding on
    funding for these projects through the Corps?
        The problem is it's going to cost more money, right,
    because you're going to open up more eligible projects. And
    you're going to, I would assume, qualify other things that
    wouldn't currently qualify.
        The SHORRE Act is certainly a really big step forward in
    that approach.
        Congresswoman Rochester. Thank you.
        And I yield back to the chairman.
        Senator Carper. Thanks so much.
        I had asked my staff in Washington to give me an update
    just before we got to the end. So we can do a press
    availability if there's anything new that we need to know about
    what's going on in the Ukraine, we'd be prepared to respond to
    questions.
        Not to be alarmed. The situation is dire, serious. But
    nothing to be alarmed about further at this moment. So rest
    easy.
        The last couple of questions. And I'd like to direct my
    first question to our Governor.
        And Governor, as you know, Delaware is known for its
    pristine five-star beaches. We've been talking about them all
    day. And this is one of them. And a number of others are
    popular vacation spots for many people who live up and down the
    east coast. Actually people who live a long ways from here come
    here even outside the country.
        We know that coastal communities are vital to the United
    States economy at large, but I'm curious to hear about their
    importance at the state level as well.
        And my question is would you just take a moment and share
    with us a little bit about the importance of Delaware's
    coastline to our state's economy at large.
        Governor Carney. I'm thinking about quoting our president
    when he was vice president, but I won't. But it's a big deal.
    It really is a big deal.
        We talked about some of those numbers before. They're not
    numbers that approach the kind of numbers that Governor Edwards
    in a bigger state like his.
        But for our State, just look at the coast from here. We're
    almost at the southern border here with Maryland, the Mason
    Dixon line, all the way up the Atlantic ocean beaches. The
    tourism industry that includes this and tourism in other parts
    of our State is a multibillion dollar industry.
        Much of it is here in eastern Sussex County. You're talking
    about the property values of all these homes and communities.
    You're talking about smaller communities, like Slaughter Beach
    and the property values there.
        If you do a calculation about the assessed value of
    properties that are located within areas projected to be
    inundated by a meter and a half of sea level rise, you're
    talking about over a billion dollars of that. So the impact is
    critical.
        I think the question goes back to my answer to the last
    question, which is how do you factor in things other than
    economic value to give a green light to Corps-funded projects
    and locally funded projects.
        So it's critically important, and I think we have to find
    ways, but we have to find ways to factor in criteria other than
    those economic benefits into the analysis.
        Senator Carper. Thank you.
        Governor Edwards, if you don't mind just responding briefly
    to the same question. Just share with us for a moment the
    importance of Louisiana's coastal area to your state's economy.
    We know it's great.
        Governor Edwards. Yes, sir. And first of all, thank you
    very much for the question.
        We're very proud of our entire State, but coastal
    Louisiana, the coast isn't just important to our state's
    economy. I think it's incredibly important to the Nation's
    economy.
        Right around 45 percent of our population, 4.6 million
    people, live in coastal Louisiana. And as I mentioned before,
    there's tens of thousands of businesses there.
        We have the second highest landings in the nation of
    seafood, but the best tasting. Whether it's our oysters, our
    shrimp, our crabs, our fish, you name it.
        Five of the Nation's top 15 ports are in Louisiana,
    including the largest port by tonnage in the western
    hemisphere. Sixty percent of the nation's grain gets exported
    out of the Mississippi River. And we're deepening the river
    now. So that's soon going to be 70 percent of the nation's
    grain that gets exported will come through Louisiana.
        Ninety percent of all the support for oil and gas
    exploration and production in the Gulf of Mexico is based out
    of Louisiana. And over half of the current L and G exports,
    which are increasingly important because of the Ukraine
    situation that you just mentioned if we're going to help our
    friends in Europe, they come from Louisiana. That's all along
    the coast. And it's not just traditional oil and gas.
        The coast of Louisiana is going to be extremely important
    as we transition to low carbon and no carbon alternatives.
    Whether it's wind energy in the Gulf, the solar farms that
    we're going to need to support the petrochemical industry,
    they're going to be looking at coastal Louisiana, too, because
    that's where the industry is.
        And so when it comes to carbon capture and sequestration,
    that's going to largely happen along the coast. Hydrogen
    production is going to happen along the coast in Louisiana.
        And one thing that's really important, and I didn't realize
    this until we actually had our Climate Initiatives Task Force
    and they educated me in so many ways, an acre of marsh will
    naturally sequester 80 times the carbon as an acre of forest.
        But we're losing that acreage. As we restore it, as we
    build it back, we're actually going to be sequestering more
    carbon.
        So for all of those reasons and many, many more, coastal
    Louisiana is extremely important for our economy but also to
    the Nation's economy and to the nation's future.
        Senator Carper. Thank you, sir.
        Let me ask a question, if I could, Governors, for
    everybody. And we'll just start, Derek, with you if we could.
        As I noted in my opening statement, 40 percent of our
    Nation's population, that's about 130 million people, live in
    our coastal counties.
        And if coastal counties in our entire country were
    considered as a Nation, we'd be like No. 3 in the world, right
    behind China and the U.S.
        Unfortunately, the Corps does not fully account for the
    protection of this population, industry, and wealth when
    formulating coastal protection projects, nor does the Corps
    account for the financial benefits of tourism and recreation
    that are often attached to these projects.
        My question of each of you, and Derek, we'll start with
    you, will each member of our panel please share with us how the
    Corps might better capture the economic importance of coastal
    communities when designing coastal protection projects?
        Mr. Brockbank. Thank you for the question. Really at the
    heart of what this hearing I think the economic value of
    recreation is a clear one. I think increasingly there's going
    to be a need to look at access.
        And I think I mentioned the racial justice, economic
    justice. I think considering how equitable the access to the
    coast is an exceedingly challenging thing to put into monetary
    metrics. But I think ensuring that the coast is the playground
    for America and not just the playground for the wealthy is a
    challenging thing and something I think the Corps need to think
    about.
        Senator Carper. Thank you.
        Mayor.
        Mayor Lock. Thank you, Senator. I think that most analyses
    that are done with cost benefit ratios capture the cost of
    projecting solely the potential losses against the potential
    cost. And that's how the ratio is derived. To me, it's a very
    narrow approach.
        And actually NOAA has become a leader in recommending and
    providing guidance to other Federal agencies that the cost
    benefit ratio should be modified and the approach to developing
    it should be modified to include ecosystems services.
        And that means the cost of--if we're looking at just
    projecting losses, include in that the cost of restoring
    wetlands, the cost of water and food, the cost of job losses,
    the cost--I mean there's a world of things that could be
    considered when we're looking at cost benefit ratios.
        And again, I believe that what the Corps does is a very
    narrow interpretation that should be expanded.
        Senator Carper. Thank you.
        Governor Carney, Governor Edwards, you want to add
    anything, please?
        Governor Carney. I would just add some environmental
    analyses as well as sustainability, in addition to recreation
    and to the effect on--and equity, which is a hard thing to
    measure.
        But you talk about somebody who owns a house here worth
    over a million dollars, somebody lives in a less affluent
    community, that house is the same protection for that family in
    each community, just valued considerably differently.
        And that doesn't factor in as well.
        And I think this climate change measure of sustainability
    and I think the reference to either shoreline restoration or
    managed retreat, what should it be, what should the standard
    be, that's a little bit different than eligibility, but I think
    it really affects approach.
        Prime Hook is I think a good example of that. I mentioned
    the Glenville project of years ago. Similarly, what is the
    sustainability of the solution and the design of the solution.
        Governor Edwards. Senator Carper, thank you for the
    question.
        Very quickly, I think all aspects of a coastal region's
    economic portfolio should be taken into consideration by the
    Corps in their cost benefit analysis.
        As Mr. Brockbank mentioned, our coastal areas should be
    playgrounds for all of America. And I'm not just talking about
    tourism. I talked about a lot of things in my previous answer.
        But tourism is usually important to all coastal states, but
    particularly to ours. We're known as the sportsman's paradise.
    We are a tremendous draw for fisherman, for hunters, for bird
    watchers, other outdoor enthusiasts.
        The greater New Orleans area is a magnet for international
    tourism. Next Tuesday is Mardi Gras. A fewer weeks after that,
    we will host the sixth NCAA Final Four in New Orleans. No other
    city has ever done that. And that's just some examples that
    come to mind right now.
        So all of that should be taken into consideration by the
    Corps so that they can drive their decisionmaking and their
    allocation of resources. And I think if they'll do that, then
    the importance of the coastal regions of our country will be
    more fully taken into consideration and drive those decisions.
        Senator Carper. All right. Thank you.
        I have two more questions. One I'm going to address to
    Governor Carney. And then the last question, if I could come
    back to you, Governor Edwards.
        Governor Carney, with respect to storm damage build-up, as
    you know better than almost anybody, the Corps can only provide
    emergency restoration assistance to nourish a beach when that
    beach has been damaged by a storm, other than ordinary nature,
    other than ordinary nature that prevents adequate functioning
    of the beach.
        Parts of Delaware's coastline have been damaged, as you
    know, by successive severe weather events, including
    hurricanes, including nor'easters, and other tidal and storm
    events.
        Though the damage from each of these individual events may
    not rise to the level of other than ordinary nature,
    collectively they have dramatically eroded and damaged parts of
    our coastline.
        My question, taken together, how have the successive and
    compound effects of severe weather events impacted Delaware's
    economy and the safety of the affected communities?
        Governor Carney. So we've talked a little about this before
    in terms of a different approach than just a disaster driven
    approach, where it's more of a management situation where
    you've got a series of increasingly less severe events, storm
    events. But taken together, they create really worse situations
    when you have the big event, if you will.
        And so we've seen that here in Delaware this past fall and
    winter. A series of small storms can be damaging as one big
    large storm, right. Ida in our State is a great example of that
    and the limit of its extent. If you think about the serious
    rain event happened over the line in Chester County,
    Pennsylvania, along the Brandywine, but the effect was
    downstream in a very small poor minority community on the edge
    of Wilmington.
        We've had a series of those kinds of events. And
    increasingly, we're going to see more of those.
        Again, in Lewes, Mayor Becker, according to a 2000 report,
    we could see between 50 and 135 high tide flooding events per
    year by 2050. In 2019, there was nine of such events. So the
    intensity and the frequency of these events is going to
    increase.
        And somehow, as we think about the future, we've got to
    start doing things differently than we've done them in the past
    because we have a new reality. And the new reality is climate
    change, it's sea rise.
        In our State, we're going to have to manage shoreline
    restoration, we're going to have to manage retreat, to use Mr.
    Brockbank's terms. And factoring those into the work of the
    Corps I think is going to be really critical to our ability to
    deliver for the people of our State and the communities here.
        Senator Carper. Thank you.
        Last question. Again, Governor Carney----
        Governor Edwards, let's come back to Governor Edwards. A
    short question.
        Would you please describe your state's experience working
    with the Corps on the matter of implementing coastal master
    plan projects to mitigate the impacts of Federal-authorized
    projects?
        Would you please describe your state's experience working
    with the Corps on this matter of implementing the coastal
    master plan projects and highlighting the legal or policy
    barriers you can to implementation?
        Governor Edwards. Yes, sir. Thank you very much. That, too,
    is a great question.
        First of all, we have a great partnership with the Corps of
    Engineers, and it's not perfect and so forth. But this is one
    area that's incredibly important to us because we believe that
    when you analyze mitigation opportunities, or when the Corps
    does that, they should look to scientifically backed plans to
    coastal restoration and protection like we have in Louisiana.
        And the Corps shouldn't always choose the cheapest option.
    We would want them to look at the option that's going to
    provide the most beneficial impact, the biggest restoration
    benefit, if you will. Especially if a non-Federal sponsor is
    going to be paying for it, like the State of Louisiana.
        Now, the State and the Corps have been collaborating
    closely on the West Shore Lake Pontchartrain Risk Reduction
    Project, which, by the way, when it's built, it will protect
    the community that President Biden visited in the immediate
    aftermath of Hurricane Ida. It's a predominantly African
    American low income community, and it's going to benefit
    tremendously from this project.
        But in that document, the Corps is going to consider the
    Maurepas Swamp diversion that we are doing as mitigation for
    the west shore project.
        But we believe that internal policies currently existing in
    the Corps may well create obstacles that prevent them from
    adopting this common sense approach.
        And by the way, that's why, one of the reasons, we so much
    appreciate the SHORRE Act because you would be giving them
    direction to do the things that we believe just make good
    common sense.
        So I think that's an example of how the Corps can do
    better, how the SHORRE Act will drive them to do better, and
    then we will get the full benefit of the projects that we are
    doing that have a positive impact on the Federal investment by
    being able to use that credit toward our match obligations.
        Senator Carper. OK. Good. Thank you.
        Thank you, all.
        I was checking the mail. We got some mail at our house
    yesterday. I opened it up, we got something from Louisiana. And
    it was a photo and a card from Senator Bill Cassidy, who
    succeeded Mary Landrieu as a senator from Louisiana. It was a
    lovely picture of him and his wife and their three children.
        And on one side of it, there were some words in French, and
    I don't recall exactly what the words were in French, but the
    translations were let the good times roll.
        Governor Edwards. (Inaudible.)
        Senator Carper. Of course.
        Congresswoman Rochester. What he said.
        Senator Carper. I don't know that we're ready to let the
    good times roll here as we face this challenge of climate
    change and sea level rise.
        But I do know this: Ben Franklin, a long time ago, really
    nailed it in terms of advice for us today and for later
    generations. He once said we came to this country in different
    boats but we're in the same boat now and our boat is in danger
    of sinking.
        And we really did come here in different boats, literally
    and figuratively. And parts of our country are in danger of
    sinking. And the question is what do we do about it, what do we
    do about it.
        And one of the things we need to do, go back to the C's, I
    like to say C, to communicate to compromise to collaborate. And
    those are three things that we're endeavoring to do and we have
    to endeavor to do even more energetically to communicate, to
    compromise, to collaborate.
        We've had wonderful ongoing conversation with the Army
    Corps. We are really grateful to the?
        Army Corps for all they do for our State, not just for our
    economy, but for quality of life and the ability to live here
    and raise our families and welcome strangers from other places.
        But this hearing was designed to put a spotlight on the
    challenges we face and to say everything I do, I know I can do
    better. Everything I do, and I'll always thought this way. And
    I suspect if truth be known, we all feel that way.
        And how do we enable the Army Corps to do better at their
    job given the changes that we face on our coasts. How do we
    enable them to do a better job. How do we do this in a
    collaborative way, what are the roles of the states, what are
    the roles of the Federal Government, the Army Corps, in essence
    its citizens.
        It's not enough to empower the Army Corps.
        It's not enough just to change cost benefit analysis and
    the ability to work with those mechanisms.
        It's also really important for us to address the root
    causes of why the seas are rising. That's really critical.
        If all we do is the things we've talked about here today,
    we're still going to be in a world of hurt 10 years from now,
    20, 30, 40, 50 years, still be in a world of hurt.
        We've got to do both the walk and chew gum at the same
    time.
        And I think here in Delaware and Louisiana we're smart
    enough to do that. And I believe Democrats and Republicans
    across the country, Congress and this president especially,
    we're smart enough to do that and it just takes the willpower
    and the willingness to lead.
        The kind of leadership that I've seen demonstrated by both
    of you in the face of this pandemic, by the administration, by
    a lot of people, by National Guards, by all kinds of people
    during the course of this pandemic, that kind of leadership, we
    need that, not just for a couple of months or a year or two,
    but for decades, for decades.
        And if we do that, years from now, when people come here to
    Bethany Beach or other beaches in Delaware or up and down the
    coast, they may not know their French that well, but they'll be
    in a position to let the good times roll. And they'll look back
    and say well, bless those people who had a hand in this.
        Let me see. I have some housekeeping I just need to go
    through with respect to follow-up.
        But before I do that, we have got, let me just say this on
    the record, we need to continue to equip this agency, the Army
    Corps, with the tools it needs to amply protect our Nation's
    coast and make them more resilient to flooding, to erosion, and
    extreme weather. And my hope and prayer is that today's hearing
    will better inform our work in these areas.
        And now I just want to ask unanimous consent. I love asking
    unanimous consent at a hearing when I'm the only one there
    because I can only object to my own request. But now Lisa is
    here.
        Congresswoman Rochester. So moved.
        Senator Carper. But I'm going to ask unanimous consent to
    submit for the record reports and articles that relate to the
    impacts of climate change on our Nation's shoreline and coastal
    communities. These documents stress the severity of the climate
    crisis and emphasize the new realities as a Nation, that we
    face as a nation in coming decades.
        Is there an objection? Hearing none. Additionally, our
    senators and our colleagues will be allowed to submit questions
    to our guests, our witnesses for the record through the close
    of business on March 9th.
        We will compile those questions, we'll send them to our
    witnesses, and we'll ask our witnesses to reply, if you would,
    by March 23rd.
        And with that, I just want to say John King is sitting here
    to my left. John heads up our water team on the Committee on
    Environment and Public Works. He'll be largely writing, holding
    the pen if you will, as we write the Water Resources
    Development Act, which will hopefully include the SHORRE Act,
    and he does a great writing.
        Terrific energy. He's like a bull in a China shop, but
    every now and then you need a bull in a China shop, and he
    plays that role. He's here with me.
        The other members of our water team on EPW, just raise your
    hands. Thank you, all.
        Congresswoman Rochester. And acknowledge Alexandra.
        Senator Carper. Go ahead. Go ahead.
        Congresswoman Rochester. I just wanted to also acknowledge
    Alexandra Gallinin from our team in Washington, and we have
    other members like Andrew and Victoria in the back as well. But
    thank you so much, Senator, Mr. Chairman, for your leadership.
        Senator Carper. Kate Roar was here earlier. I don't know if
    Kate is still. Kate works for Senator Coons. Senator Coons
    sends his best. He is a senior member of the Senate Foreign
    Relations Committee and is in Munich for an annual, actually
    more frequent than annual, security meetings in Munich. He's
    attending that on behalf, along with some of my colleagues, on
    behalf of our country.
        And I think that's it. It's been a good two and a half
    hours, a long time. But folks, there's not much more, many
    challenges and issues that are more important than what we're
    talking about here today. And we've got I think a better idea
    how to go forward and make sure that the good times continue to
    roll in the future. Thank you, all.
        With that, this hearing is adjourned. Thank you.
        [Whereupon, at 12:55 p.m. the Committee was adjourned.]