[Senate Hearing 117-222]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                       S. Hrg. 117-222

                     UNBANKED AND CREDIT INVISIBLE:
                      BUILDING FINANCIAL INCLUSION
                 FOR AMERICA'S UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS


                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             WASHINGTON, DC

                               __________

                             MARCH 17, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-13

         Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging
         
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                                __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
47-177 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022                     
          
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                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

              ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania, Chairman

KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine
ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      RICHARD BURR, North Carolina
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  MARCO RUBIO, Florida
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             RICK SCOTT, Florida
                                     MIKE LEE, Utah
                              ----------                              
                 Stacy Sanders, Majority Staff Director
                 Neri Martinez, Minority Staff Director
                         
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                                                                   Page

Opening Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman......     1
Opening Statement of Senator Tim Scott, Ranking Member...........     2

                           PANEL OF WITNESSES

Lori Trawinski, Ph.D., Director of Finance and Employment, AARP 
  Public Policy Institute, Alexandria, Virginia..................     5
Stephen Gilchrist, Chairman and CEO, South Carolina African 
  American Chamber of Commerce, Columbia, South Carolina.........     6
Kai Stinchcombe, CEO, True Link Financial, Healdsburg, California     8
Shelley Jaspering, Disability Advocate, Ames, Iowa...............    10

                                APPENDIX
                      Prepared Witness Statements

Lori Trawinski, Ph.D., Director of Finance and Employment, AARP 
  Public Policy Institute, Alexandria, Virginia..................    37
Stephen Gilchrist, Chairman and CEO, South Carolina African 
  American Chamber of Commerce, Columbia, South Carolina.........    45
Kai Stinchcombe, CEO, True Link Financial, Healdsburg, California    47
Shelley Jaspering, Disability Advocate, Ames, Iowa...............    54

                        Questions for the Record

Lori Trawinski, Ph.D., Director of Finance and Employment, AARP 
  Public Policy Institute, Alexandria, Virginia..................    61
Kai Stinchcombe, CEO, True Link Financial, Healdsburg, California    64

                        Statement for the Record

Senator Tim Scott, Ranking Member, Closing Statement.............    69

 
                     UNBANKED AND CREDIT INVISIBLE:
                      BUILDING FINANCIAL INCLUSION
                 FOR AMERICA'S UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS

                              ----------                              


                        THURSDAY, MARCH 17, 2022

                                       U.S. Senate,
                                Special Committee on Aging,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:31 a.m., via 
Webex and in Room 562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. 
Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Casey, Gillibrand, Blumenthal, Rosen, Tim 
Scott, Braun, and Rick Scott.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                 ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., CHAIRMAN

    The Chairman. Good morning. The hearing will come to order.
    Today, we examine barriers that prevent our Nation's 
seniors and people with disabilities from being banked, from 
establishing credit and building wealth. Seniors and people 
with disabilities need a bank account to safely deposit their 
paychecks and Social Security benefits. Yet, millions of 
Americans, including 1.1 million older adults and 1.7 million 
people with disabilities, are unbanked. In my home State of 
Pennsylvania, there are 235,000 Pennsylvanians without a bank 
account. Similarly, millions of Americans are credit invisible, 
meaning they do not have a credit history or they have what we 
call a ``thin file.''
    Many of these families live paycheck to paycheck or 
benefits check to benefits check, because they are excluded 
from our mainstream financial system, they pay high fees for 
financial services such as cashing a check. They often rely 
upon expensive alternative services to pay their bills, and 
they are exposed to abusive lenders and even fraud.
    To address these challenges, I have introduced legislation 
that will provide all Americans, including those who are 
underserved, with opportunities to build wealth. This includes 
the Young American Savers Act, Senate Bill 2206, that would 
provide children under the age of 18 with a savings account, 
putting them on a path to a stronger economic future.
    It also includes the Achieving a Better Life Experience 
Act, known as the ABLE Act, which was signed into law back in 
2014. ABLE accounts make it possible for a person who acquires 
their disability prior to the age of 26 to save without risking 
loss of their Federal disability benefits.
    Along with Senator Moran, I am working to extend access to 
these vital ABLE accounts through the bipartisan ABLE Age 
Adjustment Act. That is Senate Bill 331. This important bill 
would allow those who acquire their disability prior to the age 
of 46 to save for their futures.
    While we all need to help Americans find opportunities to 
save, we also must ensure they have the information they need, 
the information to make good financial decisions. This is why 
today, along with Ranking Member Scott, I am releasing this 
booklet. Here is the title of it if you cannot see it from a 
distance, Building Financial Literacy: Information and 
Resources for People with Disabilities. This booklet is 
something I am proud to introduce with the Ranking Member 
today. It is intended to help people with disabilities to 
become banked, to build credit, to manage debt, and to deal 
with other common financial issues.
    Still, there are other perils in our financial system. This 
includes unscrupulous con artists who seek to steal seniors' 
hard-earned savings. Congress took an important step forward in 
that fight last week with the passage of the Stop Senior Scams 
Act. I want to thank Ranking Member Scott and Senators Kelly 
and Moran for their partnership on this legislation. It became 
part of the spending bill, the omnibus bill, that passed last 
week. This effort, by virtue of this bill, will provide 
businesses with new tools to prevent seniors from being 
scammed, but there is more work to do.
    As we will hear today, millions of Americans, millions of 
seniors and people with disabilities, remain stranded on the 
sidelines of our Nation's financial system. We have a 
responsibility to right this wrong. I look forward to hearing 
more from our witnesses.
    Now I will turn to our Ranking Member, Senator Scott.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                   TIM SCOTT, RANKING MEMBER

    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for 
proving to the University of South Carolina health policy 
students that many things in America, and certainly in the 
Senate, continue to happen on a bipartisan fashion.
    There is no doubt that when you are not in Washington, 
DC.--and too often you hear through the screens in your homes 
or in your dormitories how polarizing or divisive Republicans 
and Democrats are in the United States and in the Congress. 
This Committee, particularly, consistently acts in bipartisan 
ways so as to serve Americans, not Red States or Blue States, 
not Republicans or Democrats, but we literally spend a lot of 
time working together to provide solutions to the concerns that 
everyday Americans are suffering through. I appreciate your 
leadership in a bipartisan fashion and certainly thank you for 
holding the hearing that we are having today.
    Nearly 40 million Americans, 40 million Americans, are 
credit invisible, meaning they have no or little credit 
history. Credit-invisible Americans have a hard time getting 
approved for loans or finding a place to stay. A lack of credit 
can even impact your ability to get a job. Yes, 39 states, 
including South Carolina and Pennsylvania, allow employers to 
deny applicants a job based on their credit history.
    For the majority of families, having a bank account, you 
would think of that as just a given. 5.4 percent of our fellow 
Americans are without a bank account. In South Carolina, 41 
percent of households making under $30,000 have limited or no 
ties to the banking system--18.3 percent of people with 
disabilities and 5 percent of individuals who are 55 years of 
age or older are unbanked. Almost 17 percent of African 
Americans are unbanked.
    Thirty-one-plus percent of unbanked earn less than $15,000 
a year. Think about that, less than $15,000 a year--20.8 
percent of unbanked folks do not have a high school diploma. 
Unfortunately, it is truly expensive to live in poverty or to 
be poor in America.
    Homeless individuals have a particularly difficult time 
opening a bank account. I have heard stories from social 
workers who are trying to help South Carolinians who are 
homeless find a bank account, trying to get the relationship 
that is so important, unable to do so because they lack an 
address. In other cases, a homeless individual may lack proper 
identification to comply with the rules of opening up an 
account.
    Credit-invisible Americans are less likely to be in a 
position to save for their future, to save a rainy day fund, or 
to save for their retirement. People who are credit invisible 
do not usually have bank accounts. They rely on cashier's 
checks, payday lenders, or pawn shops for their financial 
needs.
    Let me say that in a different way. When you are using 
alternatives to our banking system, the fees associated with 
those alternatives can add up to about $40,000 over a lifetime. 
Now think about $40,000 worth of fees, not interest, just fees 
to get the loans that you need. Those fees, for someone making 
under $15,000 a year over a lifetime, which is 15 times 40 
years of working, $600,000, that is nearly 7 percent of your 
income, lifetime income, going to fees.
    That is why innovation and creativity in the space of the 
credit invisible is so incredibly important and one of the 
reasons why we highlight the work that we see in Columbia, 
South Carolina, from Optus Bank. They have tried to help with 
this very important issue. They believe that all people should 
have access to the American dream, not just those born into the 
right circumstances or on the right side of the tracks. This 
bank offers a checking account with no minimum account balance, 
no fees, even as little as $100 in an account.
    Another way that we have to continue to work toward making 
sure that the credit invisible become visible is by introducing 
legislation that I have with Joe Manchin, the bipartisan Credit 
Access and Inclusion Act, in order to help more Americans 
obtain and keep credit history. It allows landlords, telecom 
companies, and utility providers to report on-time payments to 
the three major credit bureaus. This common-sense piece of 
legislation will help millions of Americans who do not have 
traditional credit histories but have demonstrated they have 
creditworthy behavior, which will help them lower their 
interest rates while keeping more of their hard-earned dollars.
    A second bill I introduced with Senator Cortez Masto, the 
Expanding Access to Lending Options, gives credit unions more 
flexibility in the types of loans that they can offer to find a 
way to help those who desperately need assistance.
    Chairman, once again, thank you for holding today's hearing 
and to the University of South Carolina, ``Go Cocks.''
    The Chairman. We do welcome the students here from the 
University of South Carolina. I am little concerned that at 
least three individuals do not have a seat, but maybe we can 
remedy that.
    Senator Tim Scott. Maybe we will allow them to sit there 
and testify before the hearing today. I know those three 
students are ready. I can look at their faces and tell that 
they are ready to walk out the door, too. Thank you all for 
coming.
    The Chairman. If they are ready to testify, I hope the 
rules provide that, but--well, thanks very much.
    I also want to acknowledge Senator Rick Scott who has 
joined us online. We are going to be having members join us in 
person or virtually today. So we are grateful for their 
presence on a busy day when Senators are moving between 
hearings and meetings and then later in the day some votes.
    Let us start with our witness introductions. Our first 
witness is Lori Trawinski. Lori is the Director of Finance and 
Employment at the AARP Public Policy Institute. She has her 
Ph.D. in Economics and Finance from Catholic University and is 
a certified financial planner. She is an expert in mortgage 
lending, consumer debt, and financial reform.
    Dr. Trawinski, thank you for being here with us.
    Now I will turn to Ranking Member Scott to introduce our 
next witness.
    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to 
introduce Stephen Gilchrist. Stephen's focus on financial 
inclusion is critical. He understands the importance of this 
issue, and he thrives because he loves and has passion for 
making sure that people have access to opportunity.
    Mr. Gilchrist comes from Columbia, South Carolina. He 
serves as the Chairman and the CEO of the South Carolina 
African American Chamber of Commerce. The Chamber focuses on 
the significant needs of both large and small minority-owned 
businesses. His experience leading the South Carolina African 
American Chamber and as a local small business owner himself 
gives him a unique insight on the needs of the unbanked and the 
credit invisible. He is a member of Mastercard's Master Your 
Card Corporate Advisory Board, which works to address concerns 
of the unbanked.
    Mr. Gilchrist works for his community in many ways: 
Minister of music at St. Matthew's United Methodist Church--now 
I know why he never asks me to sing in public--and Good Hope 
Wesley United Methodist Church in Camden, South Carolina, 
formerly served as Chairman of the Planning and Zoning 
Commission in Richland County. In 2020, Mr. Gilchrist was 
appointed to serve on the United States Commission on Civil 
Rights.
    Under his leadership, the South Carolina African American 
Chamber has worked with its members to reduce barriers for 
minority and majority businesses alike to engage with the 
financial systems. In his testimony, we will hear Mr. Gilchrist 
talk about the challenges of minority businesses who are 
unbanked and the role financial technology companies have 
played in helping unbanked businesses thrive. We look forward 
to his testimony.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott. Our third 
witness is Kai Stinchcombe. Kai is the co-founder and CEO of 
True Link Financial. Kai was inspired to develop the company 
and its services after Ruth, his grandmother, was scammed, and 
the services are designed to encourage continued independence 
while also putting in place financial protections, so we want 
to thank Mr. Stinchcombe for sharing your expertise with us 
today.
    Our fourth witness is Shelley Jaspering. Shelley is a 
disability advocate from the State of Iowa. She experienced an 
accident that severed her spinal cord when she was just 28 
years old and has used a wheelchair ever since that time. As a 
person with a disability, Shelley understands the need for 
access to financial services and the challenges to saving.
    Thank you, Shelley, for being with us today and sharing 
your story with the Committee.
    We will start with our first witness. Dr. Trawinski, you 
may share your statement.

              STATEMENT OF LORI TRAWINSKI, Ph.D.,

            DIRECTOR OF FINANCE AND EMPLOYMENT, AARP

         PUBLIC POLICY INSTITUTE, ALEXANDRIA, VIRGINIA

    Dr. Trawinski. Thank you. Chairman Casey, Ranking Member 
Scott, and members of the Committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify on behalf of AARP, our 38 million 
members, and all older adults nationwide. I am Lori Trawinski, 
Director of Finance and Employment at the AARP Public Policy 
Institute.
    Today's hearing is about people and the issues they face 
when they are unbanked and when they are credit invisible and 
have no access to affordable credit. It is about the importance 
of building financial inclusion for America's underserved 
populations.
    Think about these words, ``unbanked'' and ``invisible.''
    Unbanked--many of us might not know what it feels like to 
be unbanked. Did you ever forget your wallet and phone and then 
realize you have no money or credit cards or debit cards with 
you? You are standing at the cash register, a cart full of 
groceries, and there is a huge line behind you, and what do you 
do?
    You are left there with not many choices. You have to 
figure out a way to pay for your food. You might look at the 
guy next to you, the loan shark there. He might be willing to 
lend you some money, but he will charge you 150 percent 
interest, and then he might follow you home or to your office 
until you pay him back.
    That is what it feels like to be unbanked. For someone 
without access to a savings or checking account, it feels like 
that every day, all the time.
    Invisible--have you ever been in a meeting and no one even 
notices you are there? Everyone else got to ask a question, but 
when you raised your hand, no one saw you. You felt invisible.
    To be credit invisible means that the credit rating 
agencies do not see you, and that means when you go to borrow 
money or try to get a credit card, you will be denied. It is 
like you do not exist.
    That is the story of financial inclusion in America. Some 
people have access to the mainstream banking system while 
others do not.
    In 2019, the FDIC found that 7.1 million American household 
were unbanked and approximately 3.1 million of those were 
headed by someone age 50 and older. People with disabilities 
are more likely to be unbanked than people who do not have a 
disability. There are also significant differences in unbanked 
rates based on race and ethnicity, with White and Asian 
households less likely to be unbanked than other groups. 
Differences were also observed by residence location, with 
urban households and rural households having higher unbanked 
rates than those in suburbia.
    Some of these differences can partly be attributed to 
decreases in access to brick-and-mortar banks. The National 
Community Reinvestment Coalition found that more than 4,000 
bank branches closed between March 2020 and December 2021. 
Branch locations are important not just for individual 
consumers but also for small businesses within the community.
    Another factor that affects access to bank accounts is 
broadband internet access, and for many rural communities, 
high-speed internet access is still not available, and for 
other households, broadband internet access is simply not 
affordable.
    One reason some households are unbanked is cost. Many 
consumers said they do not have enough money to meet minimum 
balance requirements and that high fees are unaffordable.
    Access to credit is another part of financial inclusion. 
CFPB research found that 26 million people were credit 
invisible and an additional 19 million were found to be credit 
unscorable, leaving both groups without access to low-cost 
products. When people have no credit score or a low credit 
score, it can affect them not only when trying to obtain credit 
but also when seeking employment, rental housing, buying auto 
or homeowner's insurance, obtaining cell phone service, and 
accessing utilities without a deposit.
    Financial inclusion also requires protections for all 
consumers, particularly people with diminished capacity and 
other vulnerable consumers who are targets of financial 
exploitation. More information and data can be found in my 
written statement.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify and share AARP's 
views on these important issues. We look forward to working 
with you to ensure that all consumers, especially older 
consumers and people with disabilities, are included in our 
financial system and have access to high-quality financial 
products that are safe, readily accessible, and affordable. I 
will be happy to answer any questions.
    The Chairman. Dr. Trawinski, thank you very much for your 
testimony.
    We will turn next to Mr. Gilchrist. You may begin your 
statement.

            STATEMENT OF STEPHEN GILCHRIST, CHAIRMAN

                AND CEO, SOUTH CAROLINA AFRICAN

                 AMERICAN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE,

                    COLUMBIA, SOUTH CAROLINA

    Mr. Gilchrist. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning, 
Senators. Chairman Casey, I want to thank you and my great 
Senator from South Carolina, Senator Tim Scott, for allowing me 
to make a few comments here today.
    As you know, the pandemic has been hard on a lot of 
Americans, particularly those that were vulnerable before the 
virus. For example, our elderly and those with preexisting 
conditions, and our small and minority-owned businesses, just 
to name a few, have seen incredible setbacks due to this 
disease. In fact, prior to the pandemic's onslaught, Mr. 
Chairman, I had the privilege of representing over 15,000 
African American chamber members in my beloved State of South 
Carolina. As I sit here today, I can report that we have lost 
nearly 40 percent, 40 percent, of those businesses.
    As this Committee attempts to address ways in which to help 
the unbanked and underbanked in our country, it is important to 
remember that many of these individuals are business owners. At 
the onset of the pandemic, our chamber had to think creatively 
about how we could help our members in a very fast-changing 
environment. Stay-at-home measures were put in place, and 
person-to-person business transactions became even more remote. 
Many of our members were not part of the traditional banking 
experience, and conversely, consumers began to rapidly use 
digital services for their goods and services, and these 
rapidly changing environments are hard for anyone but 
particularly our most fragile and vulnerable entities.
    Our Chamber was very fortunate to have a relationship with 
Mastercard. We know it as a credit card company, but the 
company's vice president, during a visit to South Carolina, 
described Mastercard as a technology company.
    We were very interested in this concept, Mr. Chairman, 
particular as technology was and is revolutionizing the way we 
do and transact business. We believed then, as we do now, that 
it is essential to aid these small businesses with tools and 
resources necessary to navigate through these remarkably 
challenging times. We have learned how electronic payment 
technology can be a valuable tool for addressing needs of the 
unbanked and underbanked, and according to research done by the 
FDIC and Mastercard, evidence shows that large populations 
throughout the rural South need better access to financial 
tools for financial stability and upward mobility.
    While we need to expand the concept of creditworthiness, we 
also need to continue to bring those outside the mainstream 
banking system into the financial mainstream, so there are two 
key tactics, Mr. Chairman, that will be critical to this work, 
we believe.
    First, we believe it is important to work with fintech 
companies to connect unbanked and underbanked individuals with 
emerging technologies that can supply low-cost financial 
services for working people.
    Second, we believe that developing tailored financial 
products and services for individuals on the economic margins, 
to include seniors, people with disabilities, and other 
vulnerable adults, is critically important. We must also seek 
to utilize products and services that require low minimum 
balances and carry low or no fees. For small and rural 
businesses in America, accepting more electronic payments can 
help expand revenue, with online purchasing improving cash-flow 
and streamlining accounting.
    The Chamber's goal is simple. It is to develop strategies 
to help ensure that not only business owners, but low-to 
moderate-income residents, can keep more of their hard-earned 
money. This was an essential element increasing the standard of 
living for hundreds and thousands of residents, particularly in 
the South and in rural communities all across our country.
    Mr. Chairman, I am going to conclude my remarks by saying 
that the pandemic has been something our country has not 
experienced in most of our lifetimes, but we are all blessed to 
still be here. In South Carolina, we did lose a lot of 
businesses, but we did not lose the very thing that makes our 
country great, which is our entrepreneurs.
    I want to thank you and this Committee for your time and 
attention to this matter today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and 
members of the Committee.
    The Chairman. Well, Mr. Gilchrist, thank you for your 
statement and thanks for your witness, your presence today as a 
witness.
    We will turn next to our third witness, Mr. Stinchcombe. 
You may begin.

                 STATEMENT OF KAI STINCHCOMBE, 
        CEO, TRUE LINK FINANCIAL, HEALDSBURG, CALIFORNIA

    Mr. Stinchcombe. Chairman Casey, Ranking Member Scott, 
members of the Committee, thank you for inviting me to provide 
testimony on an issue that is very near to my heart.
    My story begins with my grandmother, Ruth Heimer. She was 
born in 1921 in Rensselaer, Indiana. She worked as a missionary 
and taught music at the church school. She died of Alzheimer's 
2 years ago at age 98.
    Over this journey, her ability to make financial decisions 
decayed. Inherently, with Alzheimer's, if you are unable to 
form new memories, you are unable to budget. If you cannot 
remember what you did this morning, you have no recollection of 
having spent money, and so your budget always seems full.
    For my grandmother, this took the form of runaway 
charitable giving. Historically, she had donated $10 a few 
times a month to help feed hungry children or support injured 
veterans. Now that she had Alzheimer's, when she received 
solicitations for money by mail or by phone, she would always 
donate, often multiple times per day.
    With her runaway spending, the bank said she would have to 
close her bank account. The experience of memory loss is 
already heartbreaking. With the loss of financial independence 
layered on top, it is devastating. Taking away her bank account 
would mean she could no longer go to the movies, shop for her 
own groceries and cook her own food, go out for ice cream or 
pizza.
    What she needed was a new way to bank, invest, and pay for 
things that would enable another person, my mom in this case, 
to support her decisionmaking. With my mom in the loop, she 
would be able to continue to buy groceries, go to the movies, 
go out with her friends, but not make repeated charitable 
contributions.
    This insight was the spark for my company, True Link. Ten 
years later, we have helped 200,000 families through moments 
like these. We expanded our work to those with special needs, 
recovering from addiction, managing mental health challenges, 
and people with other types of disabilities. We also support 
around 8,000 care professionals who help these demographic 
groups in managing their finances. We have enabled about a 
billion dollars of safe purchases, and our investment arm 
manages about a billion dollars of assets.
    Every single person deserves access to high-quality banking 
services regardless of their age, disability, income, or 
wealth. In the course of providing our service, we learned the 
story of the dad who can continue to have coffee with his Army 
buddies once a week as he has done for 40 years, about a young 
woman whose parents never expected her to be able to make a 
purchase on her own, about a mom whose son had spent all his 
money on drugs and was sleeping in his car, but she could still 
help him buy gas so at least he would not be cold that winter. 
We learned that just like there is no person who can make 100 
percent of decisions entirely on their own there is no person 
who should have zero percent input into the decisions that 
govern their life, and we learned that independence is not 
needing no help; it is having access to the help you need.
    Reflecting on these 10 years since the company was founded, 
we have come to better understand the size and scope of the 
problem and the opportunity available in addressing it. The 
total population of family caregivers is 44 million, about 1 in 
3 households. These customers come from every walk of society, 
rich and poor. One in three small business owners, for example, 
is helping an aging parent manage their finances.
    It is a problem that the private sector should be eager to 
solve. Why then is this population still so underserved? Much 
of it is awareness of the category, the opportunity, and the 
solution, but we also need government to give permission to the 
private sector.
    From a financial services perspective, legal competence is 
binary. Either someone is legally competent or they are not. If 
competent, they are responsible for everything that happens in 
their account. In contrast, if you are judged not to be 
competent, you may not be allowed to write a check or sign a 
credit card receipt, and in either case, the financial services 
industry has washed their hands. We need both permission and 
encouragement from the regulators to see those areas in between 
zero percent and 100 percent.
    Similarly, we need to think about who steps in when a 
person needs support, how to address the role of the caregiver. 
One very helpful thing was a safe harbor for enabling a bank to 
bring in a trusted caregiver in cases of suspected elder abuse 
through the interagency guidance, the CFPB Advisory and 
ultimately the Senior Safe Act. We need to expand these safe 
harbors. When a bank is working with a trusted caregiver, they 
know they will be punished if they trust the wrong person but 
they will never be rewarded for trusting the right person. A 
public policy of understanding the role of family and 
professional caregivers and supporting banks who get caregivers 
involved is very needed, and with those observations, I will 
wrap up. Thank you for your time and your attention to this 
very important issue that profoundly affects the lives of 
millions.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Stinchcombe, for your 
testimony and your presence with us today.
    We will turn next to our fourth and final witness, Ms. 
Jaspering.

                STATEMENT OF SHELLEY JASPERING, 
                DISABILITY ADVOCATE, AMES, IOWA

    Ms. Jaspering. Good morning, Chairman Casey, Ranking Member 
Scott, and members of the Senate Special Committee on Aging. 
Thank you for the opportunity to speak today.
    My name is Shelley Jaspering. I live in Ames, Iowa. I am 44 
years old and work part-time as a pricing assistance at 
Wheatsfield Cooperative. In 2003, I was hired full-time at 
Wheatsfield, which luckily gave me benefits including an IRA 
and short-term disability insurance. In 2005, I had an 
accidental fall which resulted in my quadriplegia. I was unable 
to return to work until the spring of 2006 to work part-time in 
the office because I was no longer able to do the physical 
labor necessary for my previous job.
    Seven years ago, I moved into my adapted home built by 
Habitat for Humanity. My mortgage is more affordable than rent 
in the college town I live in.
    My parents assisted me with money to purchase a 2007 
accessible van recently, which is my fourth used van. We buy 
older vans to keep me out of debt, but they typically require 
more repairs and upkeep.
    I cannot currently save money for emergency situations due 
to asset limitations which I have to follow in order to keep my 
Medicaid waiver which pays for my homecare. I use a hometown 
bank for my checking account, and they also manage my mortgage. 
They allow me to pay on the tenth of the month to ensure my 
SSDI check has been deposited even though this is technically 
considered late according to the bank's mortgage policy. Being 
in a smaller community, I believe the bank is more 
understanding about the physical restrictions I have and they 
work with me to ensure I do not receive late fees, because the 
asset limit rules are complicated, I do not always fully 
understand them.
    To be safe, I do not have a savings account or credit 
cards. I turn to my parents for financial assistance when a big 
bill occurs, but they are in the seventies and will not always 
be available for this help with paperwork or funds.
    There is so much I do not feel confident in understanding 
about my fiscal situation. I worry about the details I might 
miss, which might cause me to lose my Medicaid waiver which is 
the only way I can contribute to life. My SSDI would not be 
enough to fully pay for my bills and mortgage. So I am very 
privileged to be able to work part-time.
    With the rising cost of basic needs, finances cause stress. 
For instance, when there is a three-paycheck month, it causes 
me to have to have to manage and cut my hours so I do not earn 
too much money and risk having benefits cut. This is an 
inconvenience to my employer to accommodate me, which causes 
tasks at work to go unfinished.
    Along with the general cost-of-living expenses, I have 
disability needs I pay for as well. I recently found a need for 
a power wheelchair, and since Medicare would not cover the cost 
of a power chair at this time, I found a reasonably priced used 
chair that would fit my size. I paid out of pocket and could 
not afford a maintenance contract. The arm rests on the chair 
broke almost immediately because I use them as a way to 
transfer in and out of the chair. Those arm rests will cost me 
$500 to get a set that will accommodate my needs and not break 
easily. These additional costs add up fast, and Medicare can 
only help every 5 years for a new chair.
    My message here is that disability is expensive and there 
are barriers to earning enough money to cover those expenses. 
Most important to me is that I need to manage finances in such 
a way that I dare not lose my homecare support. Without 
homecare, I could not do a basic morning routine that everyone 
has to do to get up to go to work. Then I would lose my job, my 
home, and be more dependent on State and Federal assistance 
programs or, even worse, be put in a care facility.
    I have always lived with anxiety, and after adding 
disability into my life 16 years ago, being dependent on others 
causes more stress. The greatest fear I have is losing my 
homecare, which would take away my life.
    I am from a frugal family and was taught to save for 
emergencies. Unlike my friend who was born with her disability, 
mine was something that nobody could prepare for. In preparing 
for her disabled life as an adult, her parents set up an IRA 
which would eventually pay for her homecare after losing her 
ability to work as she aged. This preparation kept her from 
using Medicaid and other assistance programs for many years.
    For someone like me, who acquired the disability later in 
life, it can be difficult to find financial resources and 
information to manage this new life. One thing that would help 
me is an ABLE account. I urge Congress to pass the ABLE Age 
Adjustment Act. I cannot open an ABLE account because I became 
disabled at the age of 28, 2 years after the age limit. If I 
could save for the future, for repairs to the van, for repairs 
to my house, for repairs to the wheelchair, I would not have to 
live in fear. The $2,000 asset limit to keep my disability 
benefits means that I am stuck financially and will always live 
on the edge.
    In addition to the requirements of Medicaid, SSI, SSDI, 
vocational rehab and State programs are overwhelming. We need 
understandable information on how to manage our benefits and 
earnings. We need to locate trusted people that we can count on 
to walk us through the financial stages in life.
    Finally, I ask that the monthly earnings limit be increased 
so that people with disabilities can work as much as they want 
and need to. I have worked for my current employer for 18 
years. In the next few months, I will have the opportunity to 
get a promotion. For anyone, that would be a good thing, but 
for me that means anxiety and fear. If I am paid too much, I 
could lose my benefits and then I could not work.
    Thank you for your time and consideration on helping the 
disability and aging community to improve their financial 
situation. Financial improvements will have many benefits, 
including improving the mental and physical well-being of 
people with disabilities and our independence.
    The Chairman. Ms. Jaspering, thanks for your testimony 
today, and we thank all of our witnesses.
    I will start with you for my first question, and then I 
will turn to Ranking Member Scott. One thing we know about 
people with disabilities in terms of the challenges they face 
is they have significantly less savings than Americans who do 
not have a disability. The National Disability Institute 
reports that people with disabilities are twice as likely to be 
unbanked and 20 percent less likely to have a savings account 
than their peers who are nondisabled. One of the reasons for 
not having a savings account is because the risk of losing 
disability benefits if a person has more than $2,000 in assets, 
as you just made reference to in your statement.
    In 2014, we passed the ABLE Act, which made it possible for 
people with disabilities to open tax-advantaged accounts, 
savings accounts, and save up to not $2,000 but $100,000 
without risking losing those benefits. That option is only open 
to people who have acquired their disability before the age of 
26. So we are trying to get that age 26 level up to 46.
    My question for you is: If an ABLE account were available 
to you, can you tell us what you would be able to do with that 
account, number one, and number two, why it is important to 
make ABLE accounts available to people who have acquired their 
disability after the age of 26?
    Ms. Jaspering. I think raising the age limit would be 
amazing. There are so many things that I have wanted to save 
for in the past 8 years. I could have saved a lot of money if I 
would have been disabled earlier. Having this power wheelchair 
that I need fixed; I need a different cushion. I need a shower 
chair that fits my size. These specialty equipment things are 
not always covered or covered in a timely manner for me to 
prevent sores and live the life that I want to live.
    I did not plan for this disability, and I want to live as 
normal as possible. I always wanted to be a business owner, so 
I could hire people to assist me in selling things at the 
farmer's market, with anything I might need to get up daily. 
There are so many opportunities if I was allowed to save money 
like I did before.
    The Chairman. Well, that is why we are grateful you bring 
your personal story to these issues, and we learn so much more 
about the policy by hearing your own personal story as someone 
who has lived in kind of both worlds, the world of not having a 
disability and the world of living with one, so we should pass 
the ABLE Age Adjustment Act.
    I want to turn next to Mr. Stinchcombe and in particular 
make note of the fact that you have indicated that people who 
are underserved in our financial system are often targets, 
targets of scams and are targeted for acts of fraud. Last week, 
I mentioned earlier, the Senate and the House passed the 
spending bill, which included the Stop Senior Scams Act, and 
the President signed the overall bill into law. Now that act, 
the Stop Senior Scams Act, is law, and again, I want to thank 
our Ranking Member for his help on that legislation.
    The law will bring together a committee, including 
representatives of Federal agencies, number one. Number two, 
the retail sector. Number three, consumer advocacy 
organizations, and number four, financial services 
representatives from financial services as well as others. That 
committee will identify educational materials for retailers, 
financial services, and wire transfer companies to prevent 
scams that affect seniors.
    In essence, what we are trying to do is work to train folks 
in those businesses that deal with seniors all the time and are 
better trained to spot evidence of fraud, or some indicator of 
fraud, so folks can intervene and maybe ask a couple more 
questions before someone makes a decision.
    Mr. Stinchcombe, as an expert working in the field, what 
advice would you have for this committee that would be formed 
pursuant to the legislation as they begin their work?
    Mr. Stinchcombe. Yes, thanks for the question. I think that 
the thing that I would highlight is that something that is a 
scam for one person may be an intended purchase for a different 
person, and so you know, even beyond memory loss, there are so 
many different challenges that can affect your purchasing 
decisions as you age. Loss of vision might mean that a mail 
solicitation that looks like it has handwriting on it seems 
like it is handwriting; that handwriting font seems like a 
personal appeal. Loss of hearing can make telemarketing calls 
confusing. Changing in cognition make a person naturally more 
trusting as they age.
    I would say that in many cases I think that it is helpful 
to train people, but I think in many other cases these 
companies know exactly what they are doing. If you look at the 
scripts for telemarketing calls, it will mislead somebody 
deliberately into believing that they have donated in the past 
to that organization, that the organization is different than 
what it purports to be, and folks are hiding behind the fine 
print on that.
    I think that extending the Do Not Call List to charities 
and political organizations can be lifesaving for somebody who 
is in a situation of memory loss. Right now, they are exempt 
from that.
    I think that there is also just enforcement actions around 
sweepstakes, around TV shopping and shipping and handling, you 
know, where you buy four garden gnomes for the price of one and 
you have a nonrefundable $35 shipping and handling fee on each 
of them, and that is, you know, a surprise to somebody who 
might not have the income to support that.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much. I know I am over time, 
but I will turn to Ranking Member Scott.
    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Your questions 
should not have a time limit, honestly. The importance of this 
topic really is such that we need to invest as much time as 
possible in getting experts and people who have been impacted 
negatively by the challenges that we face in the unbanked and 
credit-invisible lanes of life, bringing it to the surface so 
that more people around the country understand and appreciate 
the challenges that Americans are struggling through, so thank 
you for your questions, and I found them to be illuminating and 
important.
    The question is for you, Mr. Gilchrist. An estimated 7.1 
million U.S. households are unbanked. Likewise, approximately 
40 million Americans are credit invisible; 3.5 million 
households are headed by someone age 50 or older without a 
checking or savings account; 16.2 percent of working-age 
disabled households are unbanked. From your experience, can you 
explain why people, especially in underserved communities, 
might be unbanked or lack access to credit?
    [No audible response.]
    Senator Tim Scott. Mr. Gilchrist, if you could take 
yourself off mute, it will be helpful.
    Mr. Gilchrist. Sorry about that, Senator.
    Senator Tim Scott. That is OK.
    Mr. Gilchrist. Thank you so much for the question. You 
know, one of the things that we have learned in our State, in 
South Carolina, is that there has been a historical distrust of 
the traditional financial institutions. You know, Senator, I 
will say this in jest, we have people, believe it or not, that 
still trust more to put their money in a mattress or bury it in 
the backyard than to trust a bank with it. The hesitancy and 
the reluctancy of trusting the traditional system has been a 
historical thing, and we have learned that from our members.
    The lack of access to a traditional bank has also been a 
huge issue in a State like South Carolina, where 65 percent of 
the State is rural. In many of those areas of our State, people 
have very limited access to a traditional financial 
institution, and so as a consequence of that, it has prevented 
and--created an opportunity for people not to be able to do the 
traditional banking as some would often consider.
    For those of us who are, as I heard in the comments 
earlier, you know, very--we know that there are banking 
institutions in our community, and we are comfortable with 
that. In many communities, where you have the rural nature like 
we have in South Carolina, that just does not seem to exist. In 
some places, they could potentially be 30 to 60 miles away, and 
so we found that that has been a huge barrier to the number of 
people, or the high rate of people, in rural America that has 
not been able to create that type of relationship with a 
banking institution.
    Senator Tim Scott. Mr. Gilchrist, you touch on a very 
important topic that I have a question for you on. This relates 
to fintech companies and the role that they can play in helping 
to bridge the gap in some of the communities that desperately 
need it. As you know, the American dream is oftentimes seen as 
synonymous with homeownership, and unfortunately, many families 
struggle to get approved for a mortgage.
    The more we see the research the more we understand that 
the research has shown that in many underserved zip codes 
financial technology firms, that we call fintech, are more 
likely to approve a mortgage application than traditional 
banks. Now could you talk about the critical role, as you just 
alluded to, of fintech companies that they provide in 
underserved communities as it relates to accessing credit and 
perhaps even achieving the American dream of homeownership?
    Mr. Gilchrist. No, absolutely, Senator. Thank you for that 
question as well. You know, the reality of it is technology has 
become the new banking tool. Fintech companies have been 
extraordinarily instrumental in being able to evaluate people's 
creditworthiness in different ways, in some ways to streamline 
the financial process so that folk can at least find some way, 
some credible way, of being qualified to purchase a home, to 
start a business, or what have you, and we have seen that there 
is so much interest in that.
    Back to my earlier point about the whole issue of the 
unbanked, you know, we see so many of our businesses within 
South Carolina, small businesses in particular, who have used 
things like a payment technology as a way to ensure that they 
can build some type of track record so that when they are 
wanting to go and apply for a bank loan or a car loan or a 
small business loan then the fintech companies have been much 
more engaged in helping those folk to actually achieve those 
opportunities, and so we have seen a lot of progress in that. 
Obviously, we have a long way to go in fully seeing the 
progress in that space, but what we do recognize is that it is 
one that is emerging and it is an opportunity for many of these 
folk to find that opportunity for the American dream, 
particularly in owning a home.
    Senator Tim Scott. I certainly have more questions for you, 
and I know that I am out of time and it is time for the 
Chairman to ask questions, but I will come back with you.
    The Chairman. Take as much time as you need.
    Mr. Gilchrist. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Tim Scott. Well, let me, Stephen, while I have you 
here--
    Mr. Gilchrist. Yes, sir.
    Senator Tim Scott. The Chairman is being gracious with my 
time, and I appreciate it. Likely will not pay him back ever in 
the future for this graciousness, but I will certainly consider 
it seriously.
    You know, you talk about oftentimes we hear stories about 
the food deserts, so places where you live, whether in rural 
America or the inner city areas, where the cost of doing 
business seems to have ushered in this concept of food deserts, 
where there are no grocery stores nearby, and it seems like in 
rural America a third of the counties around the country are a 
banking desert, where there is no local brick-and-mortar 
location.
    I know that you are the head of the South Carolina African 
American Chamber of Commerce, and the fact of the matter is 
that the good news in South Carolina is we are one big South 
Carolina family and because of that we care about all South 
Carolinians no matter what your title is and no matter what you 
do. So I cannot imagine that the folks in Abbeville or 
McClellanville or Anderson County, all parts of rural parts of 
South Carolina, they too are suffering through the challenges.
    It does not matter whether you are Black or White. The fact 
of the matter is if you do not have a financial institution, a 
brick-and-mortar, some place near your house, you may have 
suffered through this same challenge of being in a place where 
you are in a banking desert. The impact that we are seeing 
reverberates in rural America, but certainly in rural South 
Carolina, where there are not too many banking locations.
    Can you talk about the importance of us just continuing to 
work in the direction of fintech companies and making sure that 
people have access to credit, especially when they are 
creditworthy and having a relationship with a financial 
institution is a really important part of that engagement?
    Mr. Gilchrist. No, Senator, you are absolutely correct, and 
you know, one of the things that we often talk about in the 
Chamber, banking institutions at one point were part of the 
community. You know, we often talk about community banking and 
those types of things, but it is very difficult for that to be 
a reality when they do not exist in certain communities.
    We learned this when the pandemic--in the beginning of the 
pandemic and there were so many small businesses that, you 
know, closed due to the fact that they could not operate, and 
so many of them applied for the resources that the Federal 
Government had available all but to find out that because many 
of them did not have relationships with banking institutions 
that it made it more difficult for these folk to actually 
access the revenue like they wanted to.
    The reality of it is, you are right. I mean, it creates a 
vacuum and a banking desert all across our country. The 
opportunities again for fintech companies to come in and help 
fulfill that void, and at the same time, at the same time, 
educate communities on financial literacy and the things that 
they need to do in order to be prepared, in order to access 
loans, access credit, all of those things is so critically 
important.
    I appreciate the work that you have done on your bill to 
look at evaluating credit in very different ways because that 
is certainly--you and Senator Manchin. That is certainly one of 
the things that is certainly needed among communities, where 
there needs to be a redefining of what we believe credit is and 
more specifically how that relates to our banking industries 
and the role that fintech companies can play in helping with 
that network.
    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, sir.
    The Chairman. I want to thank Ranking Member Scott.
    We are joined by Senator Braun. As I mentioned earlier, we 
have Senators that are moving between hearings and other 
engagement today. We are happy to see Senator Braun who is 
earlier than we thought he would be, so that never happens 
around here. We are grateful.
    Senator Braun. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Maybe that is 
because I come so recently from the private sector, where being 
on time, you had to basically do it, so if you did not do that 
with your customers or your suppliers, it generally was not a 
good relationship long-term.
    Interesting conversation here today because my business 
that I started and ran for nearly 37 years, and 3 of my 4 kids 
do it now, my only business partner was a community bank. We 
were so small for so long. That was the only place that you 
could, you know, ask for credit, especially in growing your 
business. Not on the personal side, but I think a lot of this, 
you know, is intertwined not only on personal credit but credit 
for small business entrepreneurs.
    You know, I see it in that connection I still have with 
that world as being an industry that still has a decent amount 
of options. However, when you are talking about credit deserts, 
you are talking about the new economy which is going to be more 
digital all the time.
    I think what I am mostly interested in--and the question 
would be for Mr. Gilchrist. Is there enough critical mass out 
there currently that can grow into the markets that are 
underserved? Does it need to be coaxed in a way from the 
Federal Government, which generally is always a double-edged 
sword because sometimes it is stifling, not enabling?
    What is your opinion in terms of taking a snapshot of the 
banking industry currently? Are they getting the cues? Do they 
have the incentives to serve these markets that in many cases 
are underserved?
    Mr. Gilchrist. Senator, thank you so much for that 
question. As I think about that, it just reminds me about the 
efforts of Dodd-Frank and more specifically what many of us 
believe, meaning small businesses across the country believe, 
that it took away the ability for community banks to do exactly 
what you were describing earlier, and that is to have a 
relationship. The concern then becomes whether or not 
compliance has replaced community and how overbearing has that 
been.
    We have a study committee of our Chamber that looked at 
this issue several years ago and more specifically as it 
relates to minority businesses and those that were seeking to 
try to access capital to grow their businesses all but to find 
out that those regulatory constraints that were, you know, 
under the auspices of some of the efforts of Dodd-Frank were 
really challenging for many of our small businesses, and so it 
gave the banks then another tool to not lend in many ways and 
to be more reserved in their ability to do so.
    We certainly believe that there is an opportunity, Senator, 
for us to be able to have a conversation about how do we really 
encourage community banking again and use companies like 
fintechs and others that recognize the work in that space to be 
able to help encourage that. Certainly, policy is important to 
do that, and just as we, you know, have policy to encourage the 
banks to be mindful of how we can be too aggressive with Dodd-
Frank, I think we can also begin to look at policies that can 
also limit, unleash some of those restrictions so that people 
can have the type of relationship with the banking institutions 
as you described earlier.
    Senator Braun. Well, I think that is a good response, and I 
think it makes sense.
    I do want to make the point that there is a difference 
between anyone entering the credit system, you know, when they 
need that first loan, whether it is business or personal--that 
is one issue.
    My observation is there is still plenty of infrastructure 
out there even though the industry has gotten more 
concentrated, and we got to make sure--I think before we try to 
unleash anything new from the Federal Government, with 
sometimes the unintended consequences, we need to look 
carefully to see if we need to maybe loosen up on some stuff 
that was not well aimed, you know, kind of had unintended 
consequences. I know for a fact--you mentioned regulations--
there are a lot of fees that have come along with Dodd-Frank 
that community banks have to contend with that they never had 
before.
    I guess my point would be we need to first look at what we 
can do within the system, enable the fintech arena which is 
new, fledgling, and try not to pile on anymore regulations that 
would actually be unintended in terms of the consequence and 
actually thwart the process.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Gilchrist. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Braun.
    I will turn next to another round of questions for me as we 
await some more Senators in the next 15 minutes or so. I want 
to start with Dr. Trawinski.
    We have all heard the phrase ``digital divide.'' We have 
heard that over and over again, especially in the context of 
high-speed internet or, I should say, the lack of access to 
high-speed internet. It obviously has a huge effect in 
communities that are more rural or small town communities. It 
obviously also affects older Americans and people with 
disabilities in a very disproportionate fashion.
    There is also a continuing failure really to deal with this 
until the recent infrastructure legislation, which I think will 
provide us some resources that we have never really had before 
to hit this problem pretty hard.
    In Pennsylvania, we have got 67 counties, but more than 70 
percent of them are rural counties, so we have a lot of places 
where there is lack of high-speed internet.
    One thing we found out during the pandemic was what was 
thought to be a predominantly, at least by way of region, 
predominantly a rural problem was in fact a problem within 
cities, even cities that were considered well connected. You 
had a lot of kids trying to do their homework in cities and 
could not do it for various reasons. Part of it was 
connectivity in their neighborhood; part of it was not having 
the resources to have the technology they needed, so you had 
kids, you know, sitting in a parking lot in a McDonald's trying 
to get connected to do their homework, so this is a rural 
problem. It is an urban problem. It is a small-town problem, 
but it is obviously a problem for individual Americans who 
might have a disability or are seniors.
    The infrastructure legislation helped, but--I would start 
with Dr. Trawinski on this--how can internet access improve 
financial inclusion among older adults and people with 
disabilities?
    Dr. Trawinski. Thank you, Chairman, for the question. This 
is a really important question because it affects millions of 
people. As someone who recently visited Bedford County, 
Pennsylvania, I am aware that there are some issues with 
internet access there. My mother comes from Bedford County, and 
I visit there often, so thank you.
    There are three key things that we need to address to 
improve outcomes for people in terms of gaining access to the 
internet, and you talked about one. Right? It is the idea that 
many rural communities and many urban communities do not have 
this access, so that is number one.
    Number two, is the affordability issue, and you also 
mentioned that. The Affordable Connectivity Program is key, and 
I think, you know, we are in agreement it is likely to help 
many more people than any existing programs that we have.
    There is a third area that we have not really touched upon 
yet this morning, and that is the idea that digital literacy 
and training people how to use the technology is really, really 
important, and for older adults, many of whom may not have a 
lot of experience using various technologies, they may face an 
even higher barrier to using technology, especially for 
transactions.
    AARP has a number of programs designed to help with that. 
We have the OATS program, which is a program designed to 
connect older people with training programs to teach them the 
latest digital technology. We also have another program through 
the AARP Foundation and Chase that is designed to help with the 
same issue but has specific training modules about financial 
access and technology, and another important part of that 
program involves providing information to fintech innovators on 
some of the things that they should think about when designing 
fintech solutions for older people.
    Finally, we need to do a better job of educating people 
about frauds and scams. Through the AARP BankSafe program, we 
are currently training frontline workers in financial 
institutions to recognize signs of fraud before the money 
leaves the account, and that is key. It is preventing the fraud 
from happening in the first place, so that is--you know, all of 
these things are important, and I think, you know, there will 
be more people using financial technology in the future and we 
all have a role to play in keeping people safe while they do 
that.
    The Chairman. Doctor, thanks very much, and I think the 
point you made about that training in digital literacy is going 
to be important as we move forward. It is one thing to build a 
better system, a better system of providing high-speed 
internet. It is another thing to make sure that folks have the 
training that they need, so that is something we will have to 
bear in mind.
    Ranking Member Scott, I turn to you.
    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Certainly very, 
very helpful testimonies this morning. Thank you all for being 
a part of the solution as you are the ones oftentimes facing 
the challenges and the problems.
    Ms. Jaspering, thank you for your compelling testimony, 
your recommendations on legislative solutions to some of the 
things that you have faced in the real world of your 
experience, and that has been quite helpful for me. I would 
love to ask you a question after I give a short statement.
    Certainly, due to rising compliance costs and mergers, the 
number of community banks fell by somewhere around 30 percent 
from 2012 to 2019. Today, more than a third--as I said to Mr. 
Gilchrist, more than a third of rural America do not have local 
banks, brick-and-mortar. You cannot walk into your bank. You 
cannot have access to your local bank. Personal relationships 
with local community banks is vital, and for so many reasons 
the access that you get from your local bank is critically 
important.
    Frankly, as I was listening to your testimony, you 
reinforced that very important point that it is your 
relationship with your local bank that helps you avoid 
unnecessary fees, whether it is late fees or banking fees, and 
that really important relationship that you have with your 
local bank cannot be overestimated, but I would certainly love 
for you to talk to me for a few minutes about the importance of 
that relationship and how as you talked about levels of anxiety 
that relationship brings that anxiety down and allows you to 
plan for as much as you possibly can.
    Ms. Jaspering. Yes, thank you. Well, being a local, I have 
joined boards and other committees and met a lot of people, and 
because of my accident--it was in a small town. People tend to 
know who you are.
    This has been helpful because I know the person who manages 
my mortgage, and when I get a letter in the mail that says, oh, 
your mortgage is late and I call him, he is like, it is not a 
big deal. That is an automatic letter. We send that to everyone 
because mortgages are due at the beginning of the month.
    Due to the fact that Social Security Disability pays on the 
3d, I had originally set it up to pay on the 10th, and he said, 
that is not a problem at all. Do not even worry about it. We 
will not charge you the late fees.
    Before my accident, I had a small credit card through them 
with a $500 limit, and that had helped me with some emergency 
things, but I do not have that currently because I just want to 
make sure I stay out of debt, and so my parents have been able 
to help me out, so just having that community aspect has helped 
me to have a little less stress; that is for sure.
    Senator Tim Scott. Yes, ma'am. Well, thank you for that 
answer, Ms. Jaspering.
    One final question before my time perhaps runs out. This 
time I may come back around to you. You talked about the 
importance of overcoming some of the struggles because of your 
accident. You noted the struggle of finding a parking spot in 
your hometown because other drivers do not realize they need to 
leave space for the operation of your wheelchair lift. This 
makes running your errands, like going to your local bank that 
is quite cooperative, that much more difficult.
    The good news, in part, may be the evolution of financial 
technology and the ability to use things like mobile banking 
and peer-to-peer payment services, whether that is Venmo or 
whatever the latest, greatest way of being able to use 
technology to make your payments or to do things that might 
make your life a little easier and more flexible. Can you just 
talk about the importance of how some of the things that many 
may take for granted may actually make your life a little more 
easy?
    Ms. Jaspering. Definitely. I definitely use online banking, 
and Venmo helps me when a friend helps me out and I can just 
Venmo her.
    Senator Tim Scott. Awesome.
    Ms. Jaspering. When she pumps my gas for me and I just 
Venmo her the money to cover that.
    As far as people in Generation X, we are learning. We are 
still learning the technology, so it is interesting and risky 
to some to use that, but for me, technology is very important, 
definitely, because to have that easy access because I--dealing 
with parking, yes, you hit the note right there.
    Senator Tim Scott. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Jaspering. I do not like that at all.
    Senator Tim Scott. Well, thank you for sharing your story 
and your life with us for the last hour or so. We really 
appreciate your insight.
    Chairman?
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott.
    Ms. Jaspering, I think we will stay with you for this 
question, if you do not mind. I guess it is not every day that 
we get a witness from Iowa, so we are staying with her.
    You mentioned your parents have been a great source of 
financial advice and support for you, and we know that, 
unfortunately, studies show that people with disabilities tend 
to score lower on measures of financial literacy and have lower 
confidence in their financial literacy skills than the rest of 
the population, and the basic reason for that is that many 
people with disabilities lack a trusted resource, trusted 
resources, I should say, of help on financial matters.
    I mentioned earlier the booklet that Ranking Member Scott 
and I produced entitled Building Financial Literacy: 
Information and Resources for People with Disabilities. If you 
go through the book, it highlights a couple of areas of focus.
    At the beginning, the first area is on building credit, and 
it is kind of a recitation of the problem but then tips and 
considerations to take advantage of, whether it is getting 
started and how you build credit or improving credit scores. 
The second topic we talk about is managing debt, and again, it 
has tips in there for how to manage debt. The third is building 
savings through the ABLE accounts that I mentioned earlier, by 
virtue of that legislation. The next area is navigating 
benefits, enrolling, using, and maintaining eligibility for 
public benefits, whether it is Medicaid or SSI or SNAP. The 
next area is finding affordable and accessible housing, which 
is obviously a huge issue for so many Americans including those 
with disabilities. At the very end of the booklet, there is a 
picture of Senator Scott and I when we were much younger. You 
need to look at that.
    Senator Tim Scott. Nothing wrong with a glamour shot, Mr. 
Chairman. You remember Glamour Shots.
    The Chairman. Ah, the glamour shot, but we obviously 
prepared this book, and our staffs worked hard on it, to 
provide more information for greater financial literacy for 
people with disabilities, so that is a long predicate to my 
question, but, Ms. Jaspering, from your perspective, how 
important is it for people with disabilities to have resources, 
whether it is a resource like this, a printed material, but 
also access to someone to help them with their personal 
finances and maybe outlining some options for them?
    Ms. Jaspering. That is very important. I am glad that you 
have been working so hard on that because it has been a stress 
to my family to figure out how to manage when I need government 
assistance. Nobody in my family has ever needed that, so we--
understanding how to manage your taxes and, like I said, I 
wanted to own a business and being able to--it is overwhelming 
to understand all the details in every program, and I do not 
want to lose any necessary benefits, like homecare, to be able 
to live.
    Having a hub for that information is great, and trusted 
people that have learned what works for everybody and how to 
manage that is very important because when you have an accident 
and you ask the social workers they do not always know where to 
lead you to, the most appropriate information, and there might 
be people that have been working and had 401(k)'s. There might 
be people that are just very low-income and they need to know 
how they can have an affordable apartment to live in so that 
they stay out of facilities.
    The Chairman. Well, that is a set of challenges for anyone, 
but thank you for sharing that from your personal perspective.
    Ranking Member Scott, I will turn back to you as we await 
several of our colleagues.
    Senator Tim Scott. Well, let me just say, Mr. Chairman, 
that one of the things I would suggest that is sometimes 
overlooked are the little things that we do to provide as much 
as information as possible about resources that are available 
through the government. I am not sure that we, as a Congress or 
as a Senate, do enough work to educate and inform the public on 
the multiple streams that are available through the government 
and building financial literacy. The booklet, pamphlet that you 
and put together, is an important part of trying to help people 
understand the resources that are available.
    As a guy who grew up in poverty and in a single-parent 
household, homeownership is something that was so elusive for 
my family for it felt like forever. My grandparents did not buy 
their first home until my grandfather was in his 60's almost, 
about 61 or 62, and so the page 15 in our little pamphlet talks 
about finding affordable and accessible housing, and I think 
about the comments that we have heard this morning, and it just 
reinforces not just simply having a house but having good 
accessibility when you have housing. That means for those with 
disabilities that the framework may be different, and that is 
such an important part.
    Listening to the testimony--in a former life, I served on a 
board at Habitat for Humanity, and to hear the work that they 
are doing in Iowa is really important for all of us to remember 
the importance of it, but this booklet can provide helpful 
hints and tips about that information.
    Mr. Chairman, I would say that another resource that we 
oftentimes do not hear a lot about is the resource of our 
offices. I know that my offices around South Carolina--and I am 
sure the same is true about your offices around Pennsylvania--
is a place where people who need help understanding the 
quagmire pit that seems to be the Federal Government at times 
can actually be a place for help, and I would encourage those 
folks who are paying attention and need help from those of us 
who serve in public office to perhaps take a look at our 
offices. I know that my office has handled thousands upon 
thousands of disability cases, and I know that yours has done 
the same as well.
    I do think that we should make sure that the public 
understand and appreciate that important component that we can 
play beyond passing legislation. We have an absolute apparatus 
for the sole purpose of helping South Carolinians find help if 
the government, the Federal Government, should be a part of 
that solution or needs to be a part of that solution, and we 
take great pride in the number of cases that we spend a lot of 
time working upon.
    With that said, I will turn back to Mr. Gilchrist of South 
Carolina to talk through a really important issue, the Credit 
Access and Inclusion Act.
    Mr. Gilchrist, research shows that reporting alternative 
payment data like utility or cell phone bills, rent payments 
when you are renting, to credit agencies will help more 
Americans be able to access affordable credit. It will lead to 
over a 20 percent increase in prime credit for those earning 
less than $20,000 per year and a 15 percent increase to prime 
credit for those earning between $20,000 and $30,000 a year. 
That is one of the reasons why I introduced the Credit Access 
and Inclusion Act with Senator Manchin. That would make it 
easier for credit agencies to use this alternative data.
    The good news, Mr. Gilchrist, is, as I have had 
conversations with the three major reporting agencies, two of 
the three of those agencies have embraced the legislation 
before its passage and started making the type of changes that 
will help transform the experience, i.e., lower interest rates, 
and that means more money of yours that you get to keep. Could 
you explain how this bill, from your perspective working with 
so many businesses, might help not only those businesses but as 
the business owners age, become seniors, help those seniors 
achieve the dreams and goals that they aspire?
    Mr. Gilchrist. Well, thank you, Senator, for the question 
and thank you also for the legislation. We think it is 
monumental legislation, particularly in South Carolina, that 
can help people all across our country, and you know, one of 
the things that we discussed here in South Carolina regarding 
that legislation was how important it was to have balance, to 
be able to have balance in an evaluation of folk 
creditworthiness in a very different way.
    You know, people pay their utility bills. They pay their 
rent. They pay their car notes. They pay--young people pay 
their cell phone bills, and so when they have some of these 
barriers that the traditional institutions of banking and 
lending put in place because of certain credit, whether that is 
because they are new to the credit market or they may not have 
had credit in a while and have not used it in a while, this 
type of legislation certainly helps to be able to bridge that 
gap and be able to expand the opportunity for those who may not 
even--who may not have had an opportunity to access credit, the 
ability to be able to do so.
    We are very excited about that. I am encouraged to hear the 
credit rating agencies that have already expressed support for 
this piece of legislation. That is important, and we certainly 
stand ready to support this legislation and to enact it when 
the time comes, Senator, so again, thank you for your 
leadership on that.
    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, sir, very much for your 
answer.
    Mr. Chairman?
    The Chairman. I turn next to Senator Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks for 
having this hearing. The unbanked or underbanked part of our 
population is really deprived of what has become an essential 
service, and access is critical no matter what someone's age 
is.
    I have worked hard on this issue, along with a number of my 
colleagues, to pass legislation and encourage action among the 
private industry and government agencies. I recently introduced 
the Elder Abuse Protection Act of 2021 that builds on my 2017 
Elder Abuse Prevention and Prosecution Act by establishing the 
Elder Justice Initiative as a permanent office within the 
Department of Justice because what we have found is that 40 
percent of Connecticut households were struggling to make ends 
meet.
    Having a bank account, maintaining good credit, and making 
timely debt payments is out of reach for them, and I think the 
Department of Justice can effectively enforce laws, or more 
effectively enforce them, so as to address this problem, but 
the COVID-19 pandemic has exacerbated and exposed inequalities 
in our society that highlight the importance of this issue.
    I want to address this question to Dr. Trawinski. During 
your testimony, you mentioned personal savings is a pillar of 
financial security for older adults. I have co sponsored the 
American Opportunities Account Act, introduced by Senator 
Booker. It would provide children with a savings account at 
birth with annual contributions.
    We have similar legislation in Connecticut, championed by 
our treasurer, Shawn Wooden, that has established a Connecticut 
Baby Bonds program, creating trusts for children born into 
poverty, whose births are covered by the state's Medicaid 
program. Let me ask you, how will this kind of Baby Bonds 
program lay a foundation for financial security among older 
Americans and people with disabilities?
    Dr. Trawinski. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the 
question. There is no doubt that financial security will grow 
throughout a lifetime, and it is super important for it to 
start as early as possible.
    I am in a unique situation, I think. I was a student in a 
public school in northern New Jersey in the early 1970's, and 
at that time we had ``banking day'' every Tuesday, and the 
local bank came in, and we signed up for savings accounts, and 
every Tuesday the banking lady would come in, collect 
envelopes. We would have a little money in there. She would 
take them to the bank. Two days later, she would come back. We 
would get to see our deposit, and we would get to watch it grow 
over time.
    The idea of getting people used to savings at an early age, 
of using a banking system at an early age, is critical because 
we know that if you can save a little money and you face a 
financial emergency you can use that money to deal with it, and 
it helps keep you out of borrowing high-cost credit, so 
inclusion in the system is vital. Having access to a small pool 
of savings can make a world of difference over time, and we 
have actually studied this at AARP, and we have found that 
people who are able to maintain an emergency savings account 
will have better long-term financial security outcomes.
    Senator Blumenthal. I am struck by the early experience 
that you had, and I know that those small amounts can add up, 
but at the same time they are small amounts, and given the 
challenges of educational costs these days, wouldn't you agree 
that we need a Baby Bonds program that not only creates those 
trusts but also provides some money to go into it beyond what 
children may be able to afford in literally the nickels and 
dimes and maybe dollars that they are able to put into it?
    Dr. Trawinski. I think that what I can agree to is that it 
is an important issue and that we as an organization will be 
doing more work in this area, so for now, the best I can offer 
is it is certainly an important issue, and we are looking into 
it.
    Senator Blumenthal. Well, I do hope you will support it. 
Thank you.
    Dr. Trawinski. Thank you.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal.
    Dr. Trawinski, maybe we will stay with you for a question. 
You noted during your testimony that owning a bank account and 
having credit are important dimensions of financial inclusion. 
Having and building credit makes it possible for older adults 
and people with disabilities to both live their lives and to 
plan for the lives they want to lead. We know that credit 
visibility gives people flexibility to address financial 
emergencies or to save for financial goals, whether it is 
owning a home or something else, and also the flexibility to 
develop and maintain retirement resources.
    We also know there are barriers faced by individuals and 
families opening bank accounts or entering the credit system or 
having access to financial services or products. These 
barriers, which are significant on their own, can be compounded 
by race or age or disability status.
    Here is the question. How does having access to credit or 
having a credit score or a bank account or access to loans with 
fair interest, how do all those opportunities affect the 
autonomy of an older person or a person with a disability?
    Dr. Trawinski. Thank you, Chairman. It is important for 
people to have access to the credit system at older ages 
because we will often see people going into retirement years 
with a reduced level of income, and at those times, we also 
know that because of things like inflation, or rising costs for 
things like medical care or prescription drugs, we will see 
budgets are stretched and people have to turn to other 
mechanisms to fund their longevity.
    Ideally, right, we want people to be able to choose how 
they live as they age, and for many people it means choosing to 
live independently in their own home, so if you are an older 
homeowner and you do not have a mortgage, you might be able to 
tap your home equity to get funds to be able to pay for home 
modifications so you can stay in your home, so that is an 
example where someone needs access to credit.
    Another example is people will sometimes not have enough 
money to meet their monthly expenses, and unfortunately, we are 
seeing many people, particularly people ages 75-plus, turning 
to the use of credit cards to fund those interim purchases. 
What is happening for many people, though, is they are carrying 
balances and they are getting larger and larger over time and 
they are not able to pay those off, so those are a couple of 
situations where having access to credit can help people get 
through some tough times.
    I also want to mention another situation we see pretty 
frequently, and this is a case where a husband may die suddenly 
and all of a sudden the wife is left to manage the family 
finances and she has never had to do that before.
    I actually have a cousin whose husband passed away, and she 
had no credit history because they bought their house for cash, 
there was no mortgage, they did not use credit cards because 
they paid cash for everything they needed, and now all of a 
sudden, she is in her early 60's and she is trying to figure 
out how to navigate a financial system that she has no 
experience dealing with, so these are the issues that people 
face, and there is a lot more that all of us can do to try to 
help get people up to speed on what is happening in the world 
of finance. I think the booklet that you have created will do a 
lot of great things to help the disability community. I think 
we need to advance further educational tools for all people and 
really at all ages because financial inclusion should begin at 
an early age and continue throughout someone's lifetime.
    The Chairman. Well, thanks very much, Doctor, for that.
    Ranking Member Scott, I know we are awaiting one more 
Senator who will be our final questioner.
    Senator Tim Scott. Yes, sir.
    The Chairman. Should be any minute here.
    Senator Tim Scott. The good news is, Mr. Chairman, this is 
such an important topic I would love to have another 
opportunity to ask a question.
    The Chairman. Take as much time as you need.
    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Dr. Trawinski, you have made a number of really important 
points. One I hope that we would see implemented throughout the 
country, State by State, city by city, county by county, where 
we have banking days. I will say--I will concede that I did not 
have a banking day when I was a youngster in school, but it 
does sound like something that gives new meaning to the concept 
of financial literacy at a much earlier age.
    Much of the conversation that we are having today about 
being unbanked or credit invisible is something that could be 
perhaps eliminated or ended if we simply had something as 
simple as banking day, and I do want you to comment a little 
bit more about the importance of financial literacy or 
financial education early on because the miracle of compounding 
interest or the time value of money are terms and topics that 
we do not oftentimes hear discussed in any school, whether you 
are K-12 or college. Or, frankly, my nephew just graduated from 
medical school, did not receive financial literacy as a part of 
the curriculum in any of his advanced education or his basic 
education.
    Would you, at least for a few seconds, talk to us about the 
importance of banking day and/or the importance of financial 
literacy starting as early as humanly possible, maybe when you 
are reading and writing for the first time?
    Dr. Trawinski. Thank you. You make an excellent point that 
it is important to look into the childhood years to build these 
financial behaviors, and the other--so we learn financial 
behavior by either doing them ourselves, as I did because I had 
a very special opportunity to bank as a young child--but the 
other way we learn about money is from our parents, and so that 
is another issue that people face. If you had parents who were 
savers, who had the ability to save, you observed a set of 
behaviors that you will then eventually model yourself, but if 
you had a family that struggled and maybe they did not 
participate in the banking system, you had a different set of 
experiences.
    I would agree with you that, you know, starting early means 
building good behaviors early and, ideally, before high school, 
long before college, long before you take on that student loan 
debt and then you have to--you owe thousands and thousands of 
dollars, and then you have to figure out how you are going to 
pay it back. Absolutely start younger, and I think, you know, 
that is how we will change outcomes for many, many people.
    Senator Tim Scott. Dr. Trawinski, you just made a comment 
that reminded me of someone who said it. It was not me first, 
but certainly OK to take the credit for it even though I do not 
deserve it. It is that ``Habits are caught, not taught.''
    Listening to what you were talking about there with parents 
or experiences early in life, so often the habits that we form, 
it is not from what people teach us; it is from what we see, 
and our parents' behavior is how you embolden or reinforce this 
notion that what we oftentimes see in our homes is what we do 
ourselves, and we do those things unconsciously. Hence, the 
concept of ``Habits are caught, not taught.''
    I will say that the importance of my question as it relates 
to financial literacy starting at an earlier age is the fact 
that, as I did a little research, sitting here listening to her 
speak, was that it appears that 40 percent of Americans, when 
they retire at age 65, depend solely on Social Security for 
their retirement income. Ma'am, I would love to hear your 
thoughts on financial literacy as relates to our seniors who 
are struggling, frankly, with an average Social Security income 
around $1,500 a month. How do we prevent that from being the 
case for the next wave of seniors coming into retirement?
    Frankly, another stat that I heard, ma'am, was that 
somewhere around 40-44 percent of 60-year-olds have less than 1 
year of annual income in their 401(k).
    Dr. Trawinski. Yes, thank you, Senator. You know, building 
savings over a lifetime can help people supplement the money 
they receive from Social Security, and Social Security is 
absolutely a critical program for so many people in our 
country, but the ability to save money is also a function of 
how much income you have.
    One of the things we are seeing currently is very large 
increases in the amount of debt that older families are 
carrying. The more debt you carry the more you have to then pay 
each month to keep up with it. It is taking away money for 
other purposes and, unfortunately, in some cases, for things 
like food and prescription medications, so you know, if someone 
can save money from an early age and build savings throughout a 
lifetime and use 401(k) programs or work-and-save programs, any 
kind of retirement saving programs that are available to them, 
they will have a better chance of having a more secure 
retirement.
    Senator Tim Scott. Mr. Chairman, I know I ran a little over 
time. Thank you for your indulgence there. It is an issue that 
I care a lot about and worked on in the Banking Committee.
    I will say that these stats are old and they may not still 
be true, but I think they are relatively true. As a kid who 
came out of college and went into the financial services arena 
quickly thereafter, one of the lessons I learned early on was 
that: A 19-or 20-year-old starts savings about $100 a month. By 
the time they are 65, at a fairly high interest rate, they are 
a millionaire. The 40-year-old who starts saving $1,000 a month 
never gets there, so the time value of money is critical as it 
relates to the topic that we are talking about and 
understanding that as early as possible in life helps us bridge 
the gap. We talk about the importance of abundance versus 
scarcity as it relates to the people who are facing the 
challenges that we have, but if we could start with just a few 
dollars at a very young age, we do create tailwinds as opposed 
to the headwinds that happen when you are closer to my age and 
trying to figure this out.
    I think this is a very important and timely topic that so 
many folks will benefit from as we continue the hearing.
    The Chairman. The earlier the better?
    Senator Tim Scott. Yes, sir.
    The Chairman. Well, we are joined by our final questioner, 
Senator Rosen.
    Senator Rosen. Well, thank you, Chair Casey and, of course, 
Ranking Member Scott. I do agree with you; the earlier the 
better it is to start saving, and the more we help people do 
that the better everyone is.
    Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.
    I really want to build on those questions that Ranking 
Member Scott talked about, improving financial literacy, 
particularly in our rural and underserved communities, because 
it is a critical part of increasing--financial literacy is 
critical to increasing access to banking and credit, ultimately 
growing personal wealth and, of course, improving communities 
when people have more to spend, and so I commend both the Chair 
and Ranking Member for shedding light on this important issue 
in a recent report and booklet that examines the financial 
literacy needs of older Americans with disabilities.
    It is imperative we improve it in states like mine, in 
Nevada, where our rural communities and our communities of 
color are disproportionately unbanked or underbanked and less 
likely to be included in financial markets or represented by 
more traditional financial institutions.
    Mr. Stinchcombe, as a former computer programmer and 
someone who took care of my aging parents and in-laws, I am 
curious to learn more about the innovative technology work done 
at True Link Financial to offer financial services customized 
for seniors, and can you discuss how your company is utilizing 
data-driven strategies to improve financial literacy, 
particularly among our underserved, our rural communities? We 
really need to get everybody connected to these kinds of 
services, using the technology we have available.
    Mr. Stinchcombe. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I 
think that you are right to start with the connectivity 
question, that the more people are connected and the more they 
are fluent in demanding internet users the more they will 
expect their banks to do better and the more they will shop for 
alternatives, nationally, from other banks and from fintech 
companies, so I think that that is a really good place to 
start.
    I think it is also there are questions about how the 
technology industry approaches aging in general, that often the 
entrepreneurs are thinking about more ways to order lunch at 
your desk and less about the extraordinarily large population 
of underserved seniors, and I think that that is a mistake. I 
think it is a missed opportunity, and I think that educating 
the business sector in general, and especially, you know, 
venture capital and funders, about how large this opportunity 
is--is going to be really important to addressing that gap.
    Senator Rosen. Well, I could not agree with you more. I was 
on the broadband infrastructure group that negotiated that $65 
billion for broadband across the United States, so I think I 
might be interested to see some data mapping reports on how 
access to the internet and financial independence really link 
itself up. This is why we know we have to get broadband out to 
each home, every community, across America. Nothing could be 
more important, particularly for our rural communities and good 
broadband for our underserved.
    Dr. Trawinski, I would like to go on to you and talk about 
retirement trends among workers of color. We know one third of 
Latino families, less than half of Black families in the U.S. 
currently have retirement account savings compared with roughly 
two-thirds of White families. In Nevada alone, Latinos make up 
nearly 30 percent of our population, and more than 10 percent 
of Nevada's residents are Black, so what can Congress do to 
help ensure that all workers, particularly workers of color in 
really diverse states like Nevada, have access to retirement 
accounts, and what lessons can we learn from your research that 
can be applied to my State of Nevada?
    Dr. Trawinski. Thank you, Senator. One of the things that 
we are doing at AARP is we are working on work-and-save 
programs. These are programs designed to allow small employers 
to offer a way for their employees to save because usually what 
you see are large employers may provide access to a 401(k) but 
small employers do not have that capability, so through the 
work-and-save advocacy that we are doing, we are trying to get 
more states involved in offering these plans that would help 
smaller employers have access to retirement savings, so that is 
one thing.
    In terms of, you know, rural issues, you know, yes, access 
to banking, access to savings and retirement planning, access 
to resources can happen using the internet. We talked earlier 
in the hearing about, you know, broadband internet access, 
affordable internet access because that is another part of it, 
some people cannot afford it. We also talked about digital 
literacy training, and one thing that we did not talk about is 
access to affordable devices because in some cases people 
cannot even afford the devices they need to connect, so those 
are areas that, you know, we are working on, and then the other 
thing I would say, you know, for workers across the spectrum, 
Social Security continues to remain a very important pillar of 
support at older ages, and the importance of it cannot be 
understated.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I see, Mr. Chairman, my time is 
up. I appreciate all of you for being here today. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Senator Rosen, thanks very much.
    We will turn next to Senator Gillibrand.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Millions of 
Americans live in bank deserts, regions without immediate 
access to traditional banking facilities, and as you 
highlighted, 7.1 million American households are underbanked. 
My legislation, the Postal Banking Act, would reestablish 
postal banking to provide financial security to millions of 
Americans.
    Dr. Trawinski, what impact would providing banking services 
at the U.S. Postal Service, as outlined in my legislation, have 
on underserved communities such as older adults and people with 
disabilities, and do you believe it would significantly and 
meaningfully expand financial inclusion?
    Dr. Trawinski. Thank you, Senator. You know, we have looked 
at this issue because, you know, we know that in the 1960's 
that there was banking available through post offices and then 
it stopped. It can be a way to get these services to more 
people.
    What is critical, though, before we change things to allow 
that is to ensure that financial protections, consumer 
protections are in place to ensure that the postal workers are 
trained properly, and we also want to make sure that if it ends 
up being something where it is the use of prepaid cards--we 
have seen a lot of fraud and scam where people are tricked into 
using these cards or having their money stolen through the use 
of those cards, so the issue is we have to be careful, but I 
think, you know, it is a possibility of providing access to 
more people.
    Senator Gillibrand. Mainstream financial institutions and 
predatory lenders are often taking advantage of the 
underbanked, as you mention, with high fees, interest rates 
that keep them in a cycle of poverty. Predatory financial 
services, such as prepaid debit cards, rent-to-own stores, 
overdraft fees often exploit the most vulnerable populations, 
including low-income individuals, rural communities, veterans 
and senior citizens, especially in times of economic crisis.
    Dr. Trawinski, do you think that reestablishing bank 
services at the post offices is an effective means of combating 
predatory financial services toward seniors?
    Dr. Trawinski. I think that it is a possibility, so without 
understanding more about the way we would build in the 
protections, I am not able to answer, but I would be happy to 
get back to you. If you can provide more specific information, 
we will study it and let you know.
    Senator Gillibrand. Mr. Stinchcombe, do you have a 
perspective on whether postal banking would be effective in 
stemming the tide of predatory lending and banking services and 
provide more opportunities for seniors and people with 
disabilities?
    Mr. Stinchcombe. I am just personally so enthusiastic about 
things that give people more options. I think that especially 
in a digital age it is oversimplifying to say that people will 
find the best option, but I think that the more options people 
have and the more connectivity they have the better services 
they are going to be given.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Jaspering, a key component of inclusion in wealth 
building and long-term savings is the ability to have private 
funds that assist with maintaining health, independence, and 
quality of life. The ABLE accounts do exactly that, and so I am 
grateful that we have supported the creation of those accounts.
    I appreciate you sharing your experience. How would 
creating an ABLE account help you in maintaining health, 
independence, and quality of life?
    Ms. Jaspering. Thank you. It would change my life. I would 
be able to save for emergencies or to be able to live my life 
like I lived before and to be able to purchase things that 
disability equipment that is not covered. Just, there is so 
many opportunities when you are allowed to save money.
    The restrictions on not being allowed to save I find are 
ridiculous because I cannot live my life. I mean, I worry every 
day. Oh, do I have too much in my bank account? Did I work too 
many hours this month? I should not have to worry about that. 
You know, I should be able to save money like I was taught to 
growing up.
    Senator Gillibrand. Yes, that makes sense. Well, thank you 
so much, and thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Gillibrand.
    Well, I want to thank all of our witnesses, and we are 
going to conclude the hearing. I want to thank in particular 
each witness for their testimony today and for the expertise 
and, in almost every instance, their personal story.
    I want to thank Ranking Member Scott for hosting this 
hearing, and Ranking Member Scott will submit a statement for 
the record for the close of this hearing.
    The Chairman. Today's hearing highlighted the importance of 
financial inclusion for people with disabilities and older 
adults. It affirmed that we should set up Americans for success 
in the earliest stages of their lives through children's 
savings accounts. For people with disabilities, we know that 26 
percent of them live in poverty, and we learned that being 
banked and building credit are essential to building economic 
security.
    As Ms. Jaspering's testimony shows, some people with 
disabilities are arbitrarily prevented from saving for their 
futures. We have to stop penalizing people for wanting to 
contribute to their own financial security, and the bipartisan 
ABLE Age Adjustment Act is a good step in that direction.
    We also must ensure our Nation's seniors have access to 
quality financial services that help them maintain their 
independence and protect their money from those who engage in 
fraud, the fraud practitioners or fraudsters, the scam artists, 
the con artists, all of them.
    I, again, want to thank Ranking Member Scott for suggesting 
this hearing topic, and I look forward to working with this 
Committee and working with him to address barriers that we 
heard about today.
    Before we close, let me remind you about the availability 
of our new booklet, the one that I made reference to as did 
Ranking Member Scott, Building Financial Literacy: Information 
and Resources for People with Disabilities. This is available 
on the Aging Committee's website, which is Aging.Senate.gov. 
You can contact the Committee to get a copy of this.
    If any Senators have additional questions for the witnesses 
or statements to be added for the record, the hearing record 
will be open for 7 days, until next Thursday, March 24th.
    I want to thank everyone for participating today.
    This concludes our hearing.
    [Whereupon, at 11:23 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]                      
      
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                                APPENDIX

    
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                      Prepared Witness Statements

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                        Questions for the Record

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                        Statement for the Record

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                       Closing Remarks of

               Senator Tim Scott, Ranking Member

 "Unbanked and Credit Invisible: Building Financial Inclusion 
             for America's Underserved Populations"

                           03/17/2022

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the witnesses for 
your testimonies regarding the challenges facing unbanked and 
credit invisible Americans. Mr. Gilchrist, and organizations 
like the South Carolina African American Chamber of Commerce 
are making a difference through educational opportunities that 
will open the doors to credit, so thank you for your work.
    As a kid who came out of college and went into the 
financial services arena quickly thereafter, I learned that 
allowing people to prove they are financially responsible is 
crucial to them realizing the American dream, but people first 
need the opportunity to prove themselves.
    One of the lessons I learned early on was that a nineteen 
or twenty-year old who starts saving about one hundred dollars 
a month, by the time they're sixty-five, at a fairly high 
interest rate, they're a millionaire. The forty-year old who 
starts saving a thousand dollars a month never gets there.
    The time value of money is critical as it relates to the 
topic that we're talking about. If a person has the opportunity 
to start with just a few dollars at a very young age, they 
create tailwinds as opposed to the headwinds that happen when 
you're closer to my age, trying to figure this out.
    On this issue, the bipartisan Credit Access and Inclusion 
Act is a necessary step towards helping millions of Americans 
prove their credit worthiness, and avoiding those headwinds. 
Research shows that reporting alternative payment data, like 
utilities or cell phone bills, will help more Americans access 
affordable credit. That is why Senator Manchin and I introduced 
this act, so that it will be easier for credit agencies to use 
this alternative data. In fact, two of the three major 
reporting agencies have already embraced the legislation before 
its passage and started lowering interest rates.
    It's critical that we talk about ways to help people become 
financially independent and prepare for a fruitful retirement, 
and so, thank you all for being here and I look forward to 
continuing this discussion on the Committee.

                              [all]