    [Senate Hearing 117-222]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                           S. Hrg. 117-222

                         UNBANKED AND CREDIT INVISIBLE:
                          BUILDING FINANCIAL INCLUSION
                     FOR AMERICA'S UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                           SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                                 WASHINGTON, DC

                                   __________

                                 MARCH 17, 2022

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 117-13

             Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                    __________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    47-177 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                           SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                  ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania, Chairman

    KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
    RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine
    ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      RICHARD BURR, North Carolina
    JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  MARCO RUBIO, Florida
    MARK KELLY, Arizona                  MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
    RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             RICK SCOTT, Florida
                                         MIKE LEE, Utah
                                  ----------
                     Stacy Sanders, Majority Staff Director
                     Neri Martinez, Minority Staff Director

                             C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                                  ----------

                                                                       Page

    Opening Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman......     1
    Opening Statement of Senator Tim Scott, Ranking Member...........     2

                               PANEL OF WITNESSES

    Lori Trawinski, Ph.D., Director of Finance and Employment, AARP
      Public Policy Institute, Alexandria, Virginia..................     5
    Stephen Gilchrist, Chairman and CEO, South Carolina African
      American Chamber of Commerce, Columbia, South Carolina.........     6
    Kai Stinchcombe, CEO, True Link Financial, Healdsburg, California     8
    Shelley Jaspering, Disability Advocate, Ames, Iowa...............    10

                                    APPENDIX
                          Prepared Witness Statements

    Lori Trawinski, Ph.D., Director of Finance and Employment, AARP
      Public Policy Institute, Alexandria, Virginia..................    37
    Stephen Gilchrist, Chairman and CEO, South Carolina African
      American Chamber of Commerce, Columbia, South Carolina.........    45
    Kai Stinchcombe, CEO, True Link Financial, Healdsburg, California    47
    Shelley Jaspering, Disability Advocate, Ames, Iowa...............    54

                            Questions for the Record

    Lori Trawinski, Ph.D., Director of Finance and Employment, AARP
      Public Policy Institute, Alexandria, Virginia..................    61
    Kai Stinchcombe, CEO, True Link Financial, Healdsburg, California    64

                            Statement for the Record

    Senator Tim Scott, Ranking Member, Closing Statement.............    69

                         UNBANKED AND CREDIT INVISIBLE:
                          BUILDING FINANCIAL INCLUSION
                     FOR AMERICA'S UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS

                                  ----------

                            THURSDAY, MARCH 17, 2022

                                           U.S. Senate,
                                    Special Committee on Aging,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:31 a.m., via
    Webex and in Room 562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon.
    Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
        Present: Senators Casey, Gillibrand, Blumenthal, Rosen, Tim
    Scott, Braun, and Rick Scott.

                     OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR
                     ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., CHAIRMAN

        The Chairman. Good morning. The hearing will come to order.
        Today, we examine barriers that prevent our Nation's
    seniors and people with disabilities from being banked, from
    establishing credit and building wealth. Seniors and people
    with disabilities need a bank account to safely deposit their
    paychecks and Social Security benefits. Yet, millions of
    Americans, including 1.1 million older adults and 1.7 million
    people with disabilities, are unbanked. In my home State of
    Pennsylvania, there are 235,000 Pennsylvanians without a bank
    account. Similarly, millions of Americans are credit invisible,
    meaning they do not have a credit history or they have what we
    call a ``thin file.''
        Many of these families live paycheck to paycheck or
    benefits check to benefits check, because they are excluded
    from our mainstream financial system, they pay high fees for
    financial services such as cashing a check. They often rely
    upon expensive alternative services to pay their bills, and
    they are exposed to abusive lenders and even fraud.
        To address these challenges, I have introduced legislation
    that will provide all Americans, including those who are
    underserved, with opportunities to build wealth. This includes
    the Young American Savers Act, Senate Bill 2206, that would
    provide children under the age of 18 with a savings account,
    putting them on a path to a stronger economic future.
        It also includes the Achieving a Better Life Experience
    Act, known as the ABLE Act, which was signed into law back in
    2014. ABLE accounts make it possible for a person who acquires
    their disability prior to the age of 26 to save without risking
    loss of their Federal disability benefits.
        Along with Senator Moran, I am working to extend access to
    these vital ABLE accounts through the bipartisan ABLE Age
    Adjustment Act. That is Senate Bill 331. This important bill
    would allow those who acquire their disability prior to the age
    of 46 to save for their futures.
        While we all need to help Americans find opportunities to
    save, we also must ensure they have the information they need,
    the information to make good financial decisions. This is why
    today, along with Ranking Member Scott, I am releasing this
    booklet. Here is the title of it if you cannot see it from a
    distance, Building Financial Literacy: Information and
    Resources for People with Disabilities. This booklet is
    something I am proud to introduce with the Ranking Member
    today. It is intended to help people with disabilities to
    become banked, to build credit, to manage debt, and to deal
    with other common financial issues.
        Still, there are other perils in our financial system. This
    includes unscrupulous con artists who seek to steal seniors'
    hard-earned savings. Congress took an important step forward in
    that fight last week with the passage of the Stop Senior Scams
    Act. I want to thank Ranking Member Scott and Senators Kelly
    and Moran for their partnership on this legislation. It became
    part of the spending bill, the omnibus bill, that passed last
    week. This effort, by virtue of this bill, will provide
    businesses with new tools to prevent seniors from being
    scammed, but there is more work to do.
        As we will hear today, millions of Americans, millions of
    seniors and people with disabilities, remain stranded on the
    sidelines of our Nation's financial system. We have a
    responsibility to right this wrong. I look forward to hearing
    more from our witnesses.
        Now I will turn to our Ranking Member, Senator Scott.

                     OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR
                       TIM SCOTT, RANKING MEMBER

        Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for
    proving to the University of South Carolina health policy
    students that many things in America, and certainly in the
    Senate, continue to happen on a bipartisan fashion.
        There is no doubt that when you are not in Washington,
    DC.--and too often you hear through the screens in your homes
    or in your dormitories how polarizing or divisive Republicans
    and Democrats are in the United States and in the Congress.
    This Committee, particularly, consistently acts in bipartisan
    ways so as to serve Americans, not Red States or Blue States,
    not Republicans or Democrats, but we literally spend a lot of
    time working together to provide solutions to the concerns that
    everyday Americans are suffering through. I appreciate your
    leadership in a bipartisan fashion and certainly thank you for
    holding the hearing that we are having today.
        Nearly 40 million Americans, 40 million Americans, are
    credit invisible, meaning they have no or little credit
    history. Credit-invisible Americans have a hard time getting
    approved for loans or finding a place to stay. A lack of credit
    can even impact your ability to get a job. Yes, 39 states,
    including South Carolina and Pennsylvania, allow employers to
    deny applicants a job based on their credit history.
        For the majority of families, having a bank account, you
    would think of that as just a given. 5.4 percent of our fellow
    Americans are without a bank account. In South Carolina, 41
    percent of households making under $30,000 have limited or no
    ties to the banking system--18.3 percent of people with
    disabilities and 5 percent of individuals who are 55 years of
    age or older are unbanked. Almost 17 percent of African
    Americans are unbanked.
        Thirty-one-plus percent of unbanked earn less than $15,000
    a year. Think about that, less than $15,000 a year--20.8
    percent of unbanked folks do not have a high school diploma.
    Unfortunately, it is truly expensive to live in poverty or to
    be poor in America.
        Homeless individuals have a particularly difficult time
    opening a bank account. I have heard stories from social
    workers who are trying to help South Carolinians who are
    homeless find a bank account, trying to get the relationship
    that is so important, unable to do so because they lack an
    address. In other cases, a homeless individual may lack proper
    identification to comply with the rules of opening up an
    account.
        Credit-invisible Americans are less likely to be in a
    position to save for their future, to save a rainy day fund, or
    to save for their retirement. People who are credit invisible
    do not usually have bank accounts. They rely on cashier's
    checks, payday lenders, or pawn shops for their financial
    needs.
        Let me say that in a different way. When you are using
    alternatives to our banking system, the fees associated with
    those alternatives can add up to about $40,000 over a lifetime.
    Now think about $40,000 worth of fees, not interest, just fees
    to get the loans that you need. Those fees, for someone making
    under $15,000 a year over a lifetime, which is 15 times 40
    years of working, $600,000, that is nearly 7 percent of your
    income, lifetime income, going to fees.
        That is why innovation and creativity in the space of the
    credit invisible is so incredibly important and one of the
    reasons why we highlight the work that we see in Columbia,
    South Carolina, from Optus Bank. They have tried to help with
    this very important issue. They believe that all people should
    have access to the American dream, not just those born into the
    right circumstances or on the right side of the tracks. This
    bank offers a checking account with no minimum account balance,
    no fees, even as little as $100 in an account.
        Another way that we have to continue to work toward making
    sure that the credit invisible become visible is by introducing
    legislation that I have with Joe Manchin, the bipartisan Credit
    Access and Inclusion Act, in order to help more Americans
    obtain and keep credit history. It allows landlords, telecom
    companies, and utility providers to report on-time payments to
    the three major credit bureaus. This common-sense piece of
    legislation will help millions of Americans who do not have
    traditional credit histories but have demonstrated they have
    creditworthy behavior, which will help them lower their
    interest rates while keeping more of their hard-earned dollars.
        A second bill I introduced with Senator Cortez Masto, the
    Expanding Access to Lending Options, gives credit unions more
    flexibility in the types of loans that they can offer to find a
    way to help those who desperately need assistance.
        Chairman, once again, thank you for holding today's hearing
    and to the University of South Carolina, ``Go Cocks.''
        The Chairman. We do welcome the students here from the
    University of South Carolina. I am little concerned that at
    least three individuals do not have a seat, but maybe we can
    remedy that.
        Senator Tim Scott. Maybe we will allow them to sit there
    and testify before the hearing today. I know those three
    students are ready. I can look at their faces and tell that
    they are ready to walk out the door, too. Thank you all for
    coming.
        The Chairman. If they are ready to testify, I hope the
    rules provide that, but--well, thanks very much.
        I also want to acknowledge Senator Rick Scott who has
    joined us online. We are going to be having members join us in
    person or virtually today. So we are grateful for their
    presence on a busy day when Senators are moving between
    hearings and meetings and then later in the day some votes.
        Let us start with our witness introductions. Our first
    witness is Lori Trawinski. Lori is the Director of Finance and
    Employment at the AARP Public Policy Institute. She has her
    Ph.D. in Economics and Finance from Catholic University and is
    a certified financial planner. She is an expert in mortgage
    lending, consumer debt, and financial reform.
        Dr. Trawinski, thank you for being here with us.
        Now I will turn to Ranking Member Scott to introduce our
    next witness.
        Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to
    introduce Stephen Gilchrist. Stephen's focus on financial
    inclusion is critical. He understands the importance of this
    issue, and he thrives because he loves and has passion for
    making sure that people have access to opportunity.
        Mr. Gilchrist comes from Columbia, South Carolina. He
    serves as the Chairman and the CEO of the South Carolina
    African American Chamber of Commerce. The Chamber focuses on
    the significant needs of both large and small minority-owned
    businesses. His experience leading the South Carolina African
    American Chamber and as a local small business owner himself
    gives him a unique insight on the needs of the unbanked and the
    credit invisible. He is a member of Mastercard's Master Your
    Card Corporate Advisory Board, which works to address concerns
    of the unbanked.
        Mr. Gilchrist works for his community in many ways:
    Minister of music at St. Matthew's United Methodist Church--now
    I know why he never asks me to sing in public--and Good Hope
    Wesley United Methodist Church in Camden, South Carolina,
    formerly served as Chairman of the Planning and Zoning
    Commission in Richland County. In 2020, Mr. Gilchrist was
    appointed to serve on the United States Commission on Civil
    Rights.
        Under his leadership, the South Carolina African American
    Chamber has worked with its members to reduce barriers for
    minority and majority businesses alike to engage with the
    financial systems. In his testimony, we will hear Mr. Gilchrist
    talk about the challenges of minority businesses who are
    unbanked and the role financial technology companies have
    played in helping unbanked businesses thrive. We look forward
    to his testimony.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott. Our third
    witness is Kai Stinchcombe. Kai is the co-founder and CEO of
    True Link Financial. Kai was inspired to develop the company
    and its services after Ruth, his grandmother, was scammed, and
    the services are designed to encourage continued independence
    while also putting in place financial protections, so we want
    to thank Mr. Stinchcombe for sharing your expertise with us
    today.
        Our fourth witness is Shelley Jaspering. Shelley is a
    disability advocate from the State of Iowa. She experienced an
    accident that severed her spinal cord when she was just 28
    years old and has used a wheelchair ever since that time. As a
    person with a disability, Shelley understands the need for
    access to financial services and the challenges to saving.
        Thank you, Shelley, for being with us today and sharing
    your story with the Committee.
        We will start with our first witness. Dr. Trawinski, you
    may share your statement.

                  STATEMENT OF LORI TRAWINSKI, Ph.D.,

                DIRECTOR OF FINANCE AND EMPLOYMENT, AARP

             PUBLIC POLICY INSTITUTE, ALEXANDRIA, VIRGINIA

        Dr. Trawinski. Thank you. Chairman Casey, Ranking Member
    Scott, and members of the Committee, thank you for the
    opportunity to testify on behalf of AARP, our 38 million
    members, and all older adults nationwide. I am Lori Trawinski,
    Director of Finance and Employment at the AARP Public Policy
    Institute.
        Today's hearing is about people and the issues they face
    when they are unbanked and when they are credit invisible and
    have no access to affordable credit. It is about the importance
    of building financial inclusion for America's underserved
    populations.
        Think about these words, ``unbanked'' and ``invisible.''
        Unbanked--many of us might not know what it feels like to
    be unbanked. Did you ever forget your wallet and phone and then
    realize you have no money or credit cards or debit cards with
    you? You are standing at the cash register, a cart full of
    groceries, and there is a huge line behind you, and what do you
    do?
        You are left there with not many choices. You have to
    figure out a way to pay for your food. You might look at the
    guy next to you, the loan shark there. He might be willing to
    lend you some money, but he will charge you 150 percent
    interest, and then he might follow you home or to your office
    until you pay him back.
        That is what it feels like to be unbanked. For someone
    without access to a savings or checking account, it feels like
    that every day, all the time.
        Invisible--have you ever been in a meeting and no one even
    notices you are there? Everyone else got to ask a question, but
    when you raised your hand, no one saw you. You felt invisible.
        To be credit invisible means that the credit rating
    agencies do not see you, and that means when you go to borrow
    money or try to get a credit card, you will be denied. It is
    like you do not exist.
        That is the story of financial inclusion in America. Some
    people have access to the mainstream banking system while
    others do not.
        In 2019, the FDIC found that 7.1 million American household
    were unbanked and approximately 3.1 million of those were
    headed by someone age 50 and older. People with disabilities
    are more likely to be unbanked than people who do not have a
    disability. There are also significant differences in unbanked
    rates based on race and ethnicity, with White and Asian
    households less likely to be unbanked than other groups.
    Differences were also observed by residence location, with
    urban households and rural households having higher unbanked
    rates than those in suburbia.
        Some of these differences can partly be attributed to
    decreases in access to brick-and-mortar banks. The National
    Community Reinvestment Coalition found that more than 4,000
    bank branches closed between March 2020 and December 2021.
    Branch locations are important not just for individual
    consumers but also for small businesses within the community.
        Another factor that affects access to bank accounts is
    broadband internet access, and for many rural communities,
    high-speed internet access is still not available, and for
    other households, broadband internet access is simply not
    affordable.
        One reason some households are unbanked is cost. Many
    consumers said they do not have enough money to meet minimum
    balance requirements and that high fees are unaffordable.
        Access to credit is another part of financial inclusion.
    CFPB research found that 26 million people were credit
    invisible and an additional 19 million were found to be credit
    unscorable, leaving both groups without access to low-cost
    products. When people have no credit score or a low credit
    score, it can affect them not only when trying to obtain credit
    but also when seeking employment, rental housing, buying auto
    or homeowner's insurance, obtaining cell phone service, and
    accessing utilities without a deposit.
        Financial inclusion also requires protections for all
    consumers, particularly people with diminished capacity and
    other vulnerable consumers who are targets of financial
    exploitation. More information and data can be found in my
    written statement.
        Thank you for the opportunity to testify and share AARP's
    views on these important issues. We look forward to working
    with you to ensure that all consumers, especially older
    consumers and people with disabilities, are included in our
    financial system and have access to high-quality financial
    products that are safe, readily accessible, and affordable. I
    will be happy to answer any questions.
        The Chairman. Dr. Trawinski, thank you very much for your
    testimony.
        We will turn next to Mr. Gilchrist. You may begin your
    statement.

                STATEMENT OF STEPHEN GILCHRIST, CHAIRMAN

                    AND CEO, SOUTH CAROLINA AFRICAN

                     AMERICAN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE,

                        COLUMBIA, SOUTH CAROLINA

        Mr. Gilchrist. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning,
    Senators. Chairman Casey, I want to thank you and my great
    Senator from South Carolina, Senator Tim Scott, for allowing me
    to make a few comments here today.
        As you know, the pandemic has been hard on a lot of
    Americans, particularly those that were vulnerable before the
    virus. For example, our elderly and those with preexisting
    conditions, and our small and minority-owned businesses, just
    to name a few, have seen incredible setbacks due to this
    disease. In fact, prior to the pandemic's onslaught, Mr.
    Chairman, I had the privilege of representing over 15,000
    African American chamber members in my beloved State of South
    Carolina. As I sit here today, I can report that we have lost
    nearly 40 percent, 40 percent, of those businesses.
        As this Committee attempts to address ways in which to help
    the unbanked and underbanked in our country, it is important to
    remember that many of these individuals are business owners. At
    the onset of the pandemic, our chamber had to think creatively
    about how we could help our members in a very fast-changing
    environment. Stay-at-home measures were put in place, and
    person-to-person business transactions became even more remote.
    Many of our members were not part of the traditional banking
    experience, and conversely, consumers began to rapidly use
    digital services for their goods and services, and these
    rapidly changing environments are hard for anyone but
    particularly our most fragile and vulnerable entities.
        Our Chamber was very fortunate to have a relationship with
    Mastercard. We know it as a credit card company, but the
    company's vice president, during a visit to South Carolina,
    described Mastercard as a technology company.
        We were very interested in this concept, Mr. Chairman,
    particular as technology was and is revolutionizing the way we
    do and transact business. We believed then, as we do now, that
    it is essential to aid these small businesses with tools and
    resources necessary to navigate through these remarkably
    challenging times. We have learned how electronic payment
    technology can be a valuable tool for addressing needs of the
    unbanked and underbanked, and according to research done by the
    FDIC and Mastercard, evidence shows that large populations
    throughout the rural South need better access to financial
    tools for financial stability and upward mobility.
        While we need to expand the concept of creditworthiness, we
    also need to continue to bring those outside the mainstream
    banking system into the financial mainstream, so there are two
    key tactics, Mr. Chairman, that will be critical to this work,
    we believe.
        First, we believe it is important to work with fintech
    companies to connect unbanked and underbanked individuals with
    emerging technologies that can supply low-cost financial
    services for working people.
        Second, we believe that developing tailored financial
    products and services for individuals on the economic margins,
    to include seniors, people with disabilities, and other
    vulnerable adults, is critically important. We must also seek
    to utilize products and services that require low minimum
    balances and carry low or no fees. For small and rural
    businesses in America, accepting more electronic payments can
    help expand revenue, with online purchasing improving cash-flow
    and streamlining accounting.
        The Chamber's goal is simple. It is to develop strategies
    to help ensure that not only business owners, but low-to
    moderate-income residents, can keep more of their hard-earned
    money. This was an essential element increasing the standard of
    living for hundreds and thousands of residents, particularly in
    the South and in rural communities all across our country.
        Mr. Chairman, I am going to conclude my remarks by saying
    that the pandemic has been something our country has not
    experienced in most of our lifetimes, but we are all blessed to
    still be here. In South Carolina, we did lose a lot of
    businesses, but we did not lose the very thing that makes our
    country great, which is our entrepreneurs.
        I want to thank you and this Committee for your time and
    attention to this matter today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and
    members of the Committee.
        The Chairman. Well, Mr. Gilchrist, thank you for your
    statement and thanks for your witness, your presence today as a
    witness.
        We will turn next to our third witness, Mr. Stinchcombe.
    You may begin.

                     STATEMENT OF KAI STINCHCOMBE,
            CEO, TRUE LINK FINANCIAL, HEALDSBURG, CALIFORNIA

        Mr. Stinchcombe. Chairman Casey, Ranking Member Scott,
    members of the Committee, thank you for inviting me to provide
    testimony on an issue that is very near to my heart.
        My story begins with my grandmother, Ruth Heimer. She was
    born in 1921 in Rensselaer, Indiana. She worked as a missionary
    and taught music at the church school. She died of Alzheimer's
    2 years ago at age 98.
        Over this journey, her ability to make financial decisions
    decayed. Inherently, with Alzheimer's, if you are unable to
    form new memories, you are unable to budget. If you cannot
    remember what you did this morning, you have no recollection of
    having spent money, and so your budget always seems full.
        For my grandmother, this took the form of runaway
    charitable giving. Historically, she had donated $10 a few
    times a month to help feed hungry children or support injured
    veterans. Now that she had Alzheimer's, when she received
    solicitations for money by mail or by phone, she would always
    donate, often multiple times per day.
        With her runaway spending, the bank said she would have to
    close her bank account. The experience of memory loss is
    already heartbreaking. With the loss of financial independence
    layered on top, it is devastating. Taking away her bank account
    would mean she could no longer go to the movies, shop for her
    own groceries and cook her own food, go out for ice cream or
    pizza.
        What she needed was a new way to bank, invest, and pay for
    things that would enable another person, my mom in this case,
    to support her decisionmaking. With my mom in the loop, she
    would be able to continue to buy groceries, go to the movies,
    go out with her friends, but not make repeated charitable
    contributions.
        This insight was the spark for my company, True Link. Ten
    years later, we have helped 200,000 families through moments
    like these. We expanded our work to those with special needs,
    recovering from addiction, managing mental health challenges,
    and people with other types of disabilities. We also support
    around 8,000 care professionals who help these demographic
    groups in managing their finances. We have enabled about a
    billion dollars of safe purchases, and our investment arm
    manages about a billion dollars of assets.
        Every single person deserves access to high-quality banking
    services regardless of their age, disability, income, or
    wealth. In the course of providing our service, we learned the
    story of the dad who can continue to have coffee with his Army
    buddies once a week as he has done for 40 years, about a young
    woman whose parents never expected her to be able to make a
    purchase on her own, about a mom whose son had spent all his
    money on drugs and was sleeping in his car, but she could still
    help him buy gas so at least he would not be cold that winter.
    We learned that just like there is no person who can make 100
    percent of decisions entirely on their own there is no person
    who should have zero percent input into the decisions that
    govern their life, and we learned that independence is not
    needing no help; it is having access to the help you need.
        Reflecting on these 10 years since the company was founded,
    we have come to better understand the size and scope of the
    problem and the opportunity available in addressing it. The
    total population of family caregivers is 44 million, about 1 in
    3 households. These customers come from every walk of society,
    rich and poor. One in three small business owners, for example,
    is helping an aging parent manage their finances.
        It is a problem that the private sector should be eager to
    solve. Why then is this population still so underserved? Much
    of it is awareness of the category, the opportunity, and the
    solution, but we also need government to give permission to the
    private sector.
        From a financial services perspective, legal competence is
    binary. Either someone is legally competent or they are not. If
    competent, they are responsible for everything that happens in
    their account. In contrast, if you are judged not to be
    competent, you may not be allowed to write a check or sign a
    credit card receipt, and in either case, the financial services
    industry has washed their hands. We need both permission and
    encouragement from the regulators to see those areas in between
    zero percent and 100 percent.
        Similarly, we need to think about who steps in when a
    person needs support, how to address the role of the caregiver.
    One very helpful thing was a safe harbor for enabling a bank to
    bring in a trusted caregiver in cases of suspected elder abuse
    through the interagency guidance, the CFPB Advisory and
    ultimately the Senior Safe Act. We need to expand these safe
    harbors. When a bank is working with a trusted caregiver, they
    know they will be punished if they trust the wrong person but
    they will never be rewarded for trusting the right person. A
    public policy of understanding the role of family and
    professional caregivers and supporting banks who get caregivers
    involved is very needed, and with those observations, I will
    wrap up. Thank you for your time and your attention to this
    very important issue that profoundly affects the lives of
    millions.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Stinchcombe, for your
    testimony and your presence with us today.
        We will turn next to our fourth and final witness, Ms.
    Jaspering.

                    STATEMENT OF SHELLEY JASPERING,
                    DISABILITY ADVOCATE, AMES, IOWA

        Ms. Jaspering. Good morning, Chairman Casey, Ranking Member
    Scott, and members of the Senate Special Committee on Aging.
    Thank you for the opportunity to speak today.
        My name is Shelley Jaspering. I live in Ames, Iowa. I am 44
    years old and work part-time as a pricing assistance at
    Wheatsfield Cooperative. In 2003, I was hired full-time at
    Wheatsfield, which luckily gave me benefits including an IRA
    and short-term disability insurance. In 2005, I had an
    accidental fall which resulted in my quadriplegia. I was unable
    to return to work until the spring of 2006 to work part-time in
    the office because I was no longer able to do the physical
    labor necessary for my previous job.
        Seven years ago, I moved into my adapted home built by
    Habitat for Humanity. My mortgage is more affordable than rent
    in the college town I live in.
        My parents assisted me with money to purchase a 2007
    accessible van recently, which is my fourth used van. We buy
    older vans to keep me out of debt, but they typically require
    more repairs and upkeep.
        I cannot currently save money for emergency situations due
    to asset limitations which I have to follow in order to keep my
    Medicaid waiver which pays for my homecare. I use a hometown
    bank for my checking account, and they also manage my mortgage.
    They allow me to pay on the tenth of the month to ensure my
    SSDI check has been deposited even though this is technically
    considered late according to the bank's mortgage policy. Being
    in a smaller community, I believe the bank is more
    understanding about the physical restrictions I have and they
    work with me to ensure I do not receive late fees, because the
    asset limit rules are complicated, I do not always fully
    understand them.
        To be safe, I do not have a savings account or credit
    cards. I turn to my parents for financial assistance when a big
    bill occurs, but they are in the seventies and will not always
    be available for this help with paperwork or funds.
        There is so much I do not feel confident in understanding
    about my fiscal situation. I worry about the details I might
    miss, which might cause me to lose my Medicaid waiver which is
    the only way I can contribute to life. My SSDI would not be
    enough to fully pay for my bills and mortgage. So I am very
    privileged to be able to work part-time.
        With the rising cost of basic needs, finances cause stress.
    For instance, when there is a three-paycheck month, it causes
    me to have to have to manage and cut my hours so I do not earn
    too much money and risk having benefits cut. This is an
    inconvenience to my employer to accommodate me, which causes
    tasks at work to go unfinished.
        Along with the general cost-of-living expenses, I have
    disability needs I pay for as well. I recently found a need for
    a power wheelchair, and since Medicare would not cover the cost
    of a power chair at this time, I found a reasonably priced used
    chair that would fit my size. I paid out of pocket and could
    not afford a maintenance contract. The arm rests on the chair
    broke almost immediately because I use them as a way to
    transfer in and out of the chair. Those arm rests will cost me
    $500 to get a set that will accommodate my needs and not break
    easily. These additional costs add up fast, and Medicare can
    only help every 5 years for a new chair.
        My message here is that disability is expensive and there
    are barriers to earning enough money to cover those expenses.
    Most important to me is that I need to manage finances in such
    a way that I dare not lose my homecare support. Without
    homecare, I could not do a basic morning routine that everyone
    has to do to get up to go to work. Then I would lose my job, my
    home, and be more dependent on State and Federal assistance
    programs or, even worse, be put in a care facility.
        I have always lived with anxiety, and after adding
    disability into my life 16 years ago, being dependent on others
    causes more stress. The greatest fear I have is losing my
    homecare, which would take away my life.
        I am from a frugal family and was taught to save for
    emergencies. Unlike my friend who was born with her disability,
    mine was something that nobody could prepare for. In preparing
    for her disabled life as an adult, her parents set up an IRA
    which would eventually pay for her homecare after losing her
    ability to work as she aged. This preparation kept her from
    using Medicaid and other assistance programs for many years.
        For someone like me, who acquired the disability later in
    life, it can be difficult to find financial resources and
    information to manage this new life. One thing that would help
    me is an ABLE account. I urge Congress to pass the ABLE Age
    Adjustment Act. I cannot open an ABLE account because I became
    disabled at the age of 28, 2 years after the age limit. If I
    could save for the future, for repairs to the van, for repairs
    to my house, for repairs to the wheelchair, I would not have to
    live in fear. The $2,000 asset limit to keep my disability
    benefits means that I am stuck financially and will always live
    on the edge.
        In addition to the requirements of Medicaid, SSI, SSDI,
    vocational rehab and State programs are overwhelming. We need
    understandable information on how to manage our benefits and
    earnings. We need to locate trusted people that we can count on
    to walk us through the financial stages in life.
        Finally, I ask that the monthly earnings limit be increased
    so that people with disabilities can work as much as they want
    and need to. I have worked for my current employer for 18
    years. In the next few months, I will have the opportunity to
    get a promotion. For anyone, that would be a good thing, but
    for me that means anxiety and fear. If I am paid too much, I
    could lose my benefits and then I could not work.
        Thank you for your time and consideration on helping the
    disability and aging community to improve their financial
    situation. Financial improvements will have many benefits,
    including improving the mental and physical well-being of
    people with disabilities and our independence.
        The Chairman. Ms. Jaspering, thanks for your testimony
    today, and we thank all of our witnesses.
        I will start with you for my first question, and then I
    will turn to Ranking Member Scott. One thing we know about
    people with disabilities in terms of the challenges they face
    is they have significantly less savings than Americans who do
    not have a disability. The National Disability Institute
    reports that people with disabilities are twice as likely to be
    unbanked and 20 percent less likely to have a savings account
    than their peers who are nondisabled. One of the reasons for
    not having a savings account is because the risk of losing
    disability benefits if a person has more than $2,000 in assets,
    as you just made reference to in your statement.
        In 2014, we passed the ABLE Act, which made it possible for
    people with disabilities to open tax-advantaged accounts,
    savings accounts, and save up to not $2,000 but $100,000
    without risking losing those benefits. That option is only open
    to people who have acquired their disability before the age of
    26. So we are trying to get that age 26 level up to 46.
        My question for you is: If an ABLE account were available
    to you, can you tell us what you would be able to do with that
    account, number one, and number two, why it is important to
    make ABLE accounts available to people who have acquired their
    disability after the age of 26?
        Ms. Jaspering. I think raising the age limit would be
    amazing. There are so many things that I have wanted to save
    for in the past 8 years. I could have saved a lot of money if I
    would have been disabled earlier. Having this power wheelchair
    that I need fixed; I need a different cushion. I need a shower
    chair that fits my size. These specialty equipment things are
    not always covered or covered in a timely manner for me to
    prevent sores and live the life that I want to live.
        I did not plan for this disability, and I want to live as
    normal as possible. I always wanted to be a business owner, so
    I could hire people to assist me in selling things at the
    farmer's market, with anything I might need to get up daily.
    There are so many opportunities if I was allowed to save money
    like I did before.
        The Chairman. Well, that is why we are grateful you bring
    your personal story to these issues, and we learn so much more
    about the policy by hearing your own personal story as someone
    who has lived in kind of both worlds, the world of not having a
    disability and the world of living with one, so we should pass
    the ABLE Age Adjustment Act.
        I want to turn next to Mr. Stinchcombe and in particular
    make note of the fact that you have indicated that people who
    are underserved in our financial system are often targets,
    targets of scams and are targeted for acts of fraud. Last week,
    I mentioned earlier, the Senate and the House passed the
    spending bill, which included the Stop Senior Scams Act, and
    the President signed the overall bill into law. Now that act,
    the Stop Senior Scams Act, is law, and again, I want to thank
    our Ranking Member for his help on that legislation.
        The law will bring together a committee, including
    representatives of Federal agencies, number one. Number two,
    the retail sector. Number three, consumer advocacy
    organizations, and number four, financial services
    representatives from financial services as well as others. That
    committee will identify educational materials for retailers,
    financial services, and wire transfer companies to prevent
    scams that affect seniors.
        In essence, what we are trying to do is work to train folks
    in those businesses that deal with seniors all the time and are
    better trained to spot evidence of fraud, or some indicator of
    fraud, so folks can intervene and maybe ask a couple more
    questions before someone makes a decision.
        Mr. Stinchcombe, as an expert working in the field, what
    advice would you have for this committee that would be formed
    pursuant to the legislation as they begin their work?
        Mr. Stinchcombe. Yes, thanks for the question. I think that
    the thing that I would highlight is that something that is a
    scam for one person may be an intended purchase for a different
    person, and so you know, even beyond memory loss, there are so
    many different challenges that can affect your purchasing
    decisions as you age. Loss of vision might mean that a mail
    solicitation that looks like it has handwriting on it seems
    like it is handwriting; that handwriting font seems like a
    personal appeal. Loss of hearing can make telemarketing calls
    confusing. Changing in cognition make a person naturally more
    trusting as they age.
        I would say that in many cases I think that it is helpful
    to train people, but I think in many other cases these
    companies know exactly what they are doing. If you look at the
    scripts for telemarketing calls, it will mislead somebody
    deliberately into believing that they have donated in the past
    to that organization, that the organization is different than
    what it purports to be, and folks are hiding behind the fine
    print on that.
        I think that extending the Do Not Call List to charities
    and political organizations can be lifesaving for somebody who
    is in a situation of memory loss. Right now, they are exempt
    from that.
        I think that there is also just enforcement actions around
    sweepstakes, around TV shopping and shipping and handling, you
    know, where you buy four garden gnomes for the price of one and
    you have a nonrefundable $35 shipping and handling fee on each
    of them, and that is, you know, a surprise to somebody who
    might not have the income to support that.
        The Chairman. Thank you very much. I know I am over time,
    but I will turn to Ranking Member Scott.
        Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Your questions
    should not have a time limit, honestly. The importance of this
    topic really is such that we need to invest as much time as
    possible in getting experts and people who have been impacted
    negatively by the challenges that we face in the unbanked and
    credit-invisible lanes of life, bringing it to the surface so
    that more people around the country understand and appreciate
    the challenges that Americans are struggling through, so thank
    you for your questions, and I found them to be illuminating and
    important.
        The question is for you, Mr. Gilchrist. An estimated 7.1
    million U.S. households are unbanked. Likewise, approximately
    40 million Americans are credit invisible; 3.5 million
    households are headed by someone age 50 or older without a
    checking or savings account; 16.2 percent of working-age
    disabled households are unbanked. From your experience, can you
    explain why people, especially in underserved communities,
    might be unbanked or lack access to credit?
        [No audible response.]
        Senator Tim Scott. Mr. Gilchrist, if you could take
    yourself off mute, it will be helpful.
        Mr. Gilchrist. Sorry about that, Senator.
        Senator Tim Scott. That is OK.
        Mr. Gilchrist. Thank you so much for the question. You
    know, one of the things that we have learned in our State, in
    South Carolina, is that there has been a historical distrust of
    the traditional financial institutions. You know, Senator, I
    will say this in jest, we have people, believe it or not, that
    still trust more to put their money in a mattress or bury it in
    the backyard than to trust a bank with it. The hesitancy and
    the reluctancy of trusting the traditional system has been a
    historical thing, and we have learned that from our members.
        The lack of access to a traditional bank has also been a
    huge issue in a State like South Carolina, where 65 percent of
    the State is rural. In many of those areas of our State, people
    have very limited access to a traditional financial
    institution, and so as a consequence of that, it has prevented
    and--created an opportunity for people not to be able to do the
    traditional banking as some would often consider.
        For those of us who are, as I heard in the comments
    earlier, you know, very--we know that there are banking
    institutions in our community, and we are comfortable with
    that. In many communities, where you have the rural nature like
    we have in South Carolina, that just does not seem to exist. In
    some places, they could potentially be 30 to 60 miles away, and
    so we found that that has been a huge barrier to the number of
    people, or the high rate of people, in rural America that has
    not been able to create that type of relationship with a
    banking institution.
        Senator Tim Scott. Mr. Gilchrist, you touch on a very
    important topic that I have a question for you on. This relates
    to fintech companies and the role that they can play in helping
    to bridge the gap in some of the communities that desperately
    need it. As you know, the American dream is oftentimes seen as
    synonymous with homeownership, and unfortunately, many families
    struggle to get approved for a mortgage.
        The more we see the research the more we understand that
    the research has shown that in many underserved zip codes
    financial technology firms, that we call fintech, are more
    likely to approve a mortgage application than traditional
    banks. Now could you talk about the critical role, as you just
    alluded to, of fintech companies that they provide in
    underserved communities as it relates to accessing credit and
    perhaps even achieving the American dream of homeownership?
        Mr. Gilchrist. No, absolutely, Senator. Thank you for that
    question as well. You know, the reality of it is technology has
    become the new banking tool. Fintech companies have been
    extraordinarily instrumental in being able to evaluate people's
    creditworthiness in different ways, in some ways to streamline
    the financial process so that folk can at least find some way,
    some credible way, of being qualified to purchase a home, to
    start a business, or what have you, and we have seen that there
    is so much interest in that.
        Back to my earlier point about the whole issue of the
    unbanked, you know, we see so many of our businesses within
    South Carolina, small businesses in particular, who have used
    things like a payment technology as a way to ensure that they
    can build some type of track record so that when they are
    wanting to go and apply for a bank loan or a car loan or a
    small business loan then the fintech companies have been much
    more engaged in helping those folk to actually achieve those
    opportunities, and so we have seen a lot of progress in that.
    Obviously, we have a long way to go in fully seeing the
    progress in that space, but what we do recognize is that it is
    one that is emerging and it is an opportunity for many of these
    folk to find that opportunity for the American dream,
    particularly in owning a home.
        Senator Tim Scott. I certainly have more questions for you,
    and I know that I am out of time and it is time for the
    Chairman to ask questions, but I will come back with you.
        The Chairman. Take as much time as you need.
        Mr. Gilchrist. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Tim Scott. Well, let me, Stephen, while I have you
    here--
        Mr. Gilchrist. Yes, sir.
        Senator Tim Scott. The Chairman is being gracious with my
    time, and I appreciate it. Likely will not pay him back ever in
    the future for this graciousness, but I will certainly consider
    it seriously.
        You know, you talk about oftentimes we hear stories about
    the food deserts, so places where you live, whether in rural
    America or the inner city areas, where the cost of doing
    business seems to have ushered in this concept of food deserts,
    where there are no grocery stores nearby, and it seems like in
    rural America a third of the counties around the country are a
    banking desert, where there is no local brick-and-mortar
    location.
        I know that you are the head of the South Carolina African
    American Chamber of Commerce, and the fact of the matter is
    that the good news in South Carolina is we are one big South
    Carolina family and because of that we care about all South
    Carolinians no matter what your title is and no matter what you
    do. So I cannot imagine that the folks in Abbeville or
    McClellanville or Anderson County, all parts of rural parts of
    South Carolina, they too are suffering through the challenges.
        It does not matter whether you are Black or White. The fact
    of the matter is if you do not have a financial institution, a
    brick-and-mortar, some place near your house, you may have
    suffered through this same challenge of being in a place where
    you are in a banking desert. The impact that we are seeing
    reverberates in rural America, but certainly in rural South
    Carolina, where there are not too many banking locations.
        Can you talk about the importance of us just continuing to
    work in the direction of fintech companies and making sure that
    people have access to credit, especially when they are
    creditworthy and having a relationship with a financial
    institution is a really important part of that engagement?
        Mr. Gilchrist. No, Senator, you are absolutely correct, and
    you know, one of the things that we often talk about in the
    Chamber, banking institutions at one point were part of the
    community. You know, we often talk about community banking and
    those types of things, but it is very difficult for that to be
    a reality when they do not exist in certain communities.
        We learned this when the pandemic--in the beginning of the
    pandemic and there were so many small businesses that, you
    know, closed due to the fact that they could not operate, and
    so many of them applied for the resources that the Federal
    Government had available all but to find out that because many
    of them did not have relationships with banking institutions
    that it made it more difficult for these folk to actually
    access the revenue like they wanted to.
        The reality of it is, you are right. I mean, it creates a
    vacuum and a banking desert all across our country. The
    opportunities again for fintech companies to come in and help
    fulfill that void, and at the same time, at the same time,
    educate communities on financial literacy and the things that
    they need to do in order to be prepared, in order to access
    loans, access credit, all of those things is so critically
    important.
        I appreciate the work that you have done on your bill to
    look at evaluating credit in very different ways because that
    is certainly--you and Senator Manchin. That is certainly one of
    the things that is certainly needed among communities, where
    there needs to be a redefining of what we believe credit is and
    more specifically how that relates to our banking industries
    and the role that fintech companies can play in helping with
    that network.
        Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, sir.
        The Chairman. I want to thank Ranking Member Scott.
        We are joined by Senator Braun. As I mentioned earlier, we
    have Senators that are moving between hearings and other
    engagement today. We are happy to see Senator Braun who is
    earlier than we thought he would be, so that never happens
    around here. We are grateful.
        Senator Braun. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Maybe that is
    because I come so recently from the private sector, where being
    on time, you had to basically do it, so if you did not do that
    with your customers or your suppliers, it generally was not a
    good relationship long-term.
        Interesting conversation here today because my business
    that I started and ran for nearly 37 years, and 3 of my 4 kids
    do it now, my only business partner was a community bank. We
    were so small for so long. That was the only place that you
    could, you know, ask for credit, especially in growing your
    business. Not on the personal side, but I think a lot of this,
    you know, is intertwined not only on personal credit but credit
    for small business entrepreneurs.
        You know, I see it in that connection I still have with
    that world as being an industry that still has a decent amount
    of options. However, when you are talking about credit deserts,
    you are talking about the new economy which is going to be more
    digital all the time.
        I think what I am mostly interested in--and the question
    would be for Mr. Gilchrist. Is there enough critical mass out
    there currently that can grow into the markets that are
    underserved? Does it need to be coaxed in a way from the
    Federal Government, which generally is always a double-edged
    sword because sometimes it is stifling, not enabling?
        What is your opinion in terms of taking a snapshot of the
    banking industry currently? Are they getting the cues? Do they
    have the incentives to serve these markets that in many cases
    are underserved?
        Mr. Gilchrist. Senator, thank you so much for that
    question. As I think about that, it just reminds me about the
    efforts of Dodd-Frank and more specifically what many of us
    believe, meaning small businesses across the country believe,
    that it took away the ability for community banks to do exactly
    what you were describing earlier, and that is to have a
    relationship. The concern then becomes whether or not
    compliance has replaced community and how overbearing has that
    been.
        We have a study committee of our Chamber that looked at
    this issue several years ago and more specifically as it
    relates to minority businesses and those that were seeking to
    try to access capital to grow their businesses all but to find
    out that those regulatory constraints that were, you know,
    under the auspices of some of the efforts of Dodd-Frank were
    really challenging for many of our small businesses, and so it
    gave the banks then another tool to not lend in many ways and
    to be more reserved in their ability to do so.
        We certainly believe that there is an opportunity, Senator,
    for us to be able to have a conversation about how do we really
    encourage community banking again and use companies like
    fintechs and others that recognize the work in that space to be
    able to help encourage that. Certainly, policy is important to
    do that, and just as we, you know, have policy to encourage the
    banks to be mindful of how we can be too aggressive with Dodd-
    Frank, I think we can also begin to look at policies that can
    also limit, unleash some of those restrictions so that people
    can have the type of relationship with the banking institutions
    as you described earlier.
        Senator Braun. Well, I think that is a good response, and I
    think it makes sense.
        I do want to make the point that there is a difference
    between anyone entering the credit system, you know, when they
    need that first loan, whether it is business or personal--that
    is one issue.
        My observation is there is still plenty of infrastructure
    out there even though the industry has gotten more
    concentrated, and we got to make sure--I think before we try to
    unleash anything new from the Federal Government, with
    sometimes the unintended consequences, we need to look
    carefully to see if we need to maybe loosen up on some stuff
    that was not well aimed, you know, kind of had unintended
    consequences. I know for a fact--you mentioned regulations--
    there are a lot of fees that have come along with Dodd-Frank
    that community banks have to contend with that they never had
    before.
        I guess my point would be we need to first look at what we
    can do within the system, enable the fintech arena which is
    new, fledgling, and try not to pile on anymore regulations that
    would actually be unintended in terms of the consequence and
    actually thwart the process.
        Thank you.
        Mr. Gilchrist. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Braun.
        I will turn next to another round of questions for me as we
    await some more Senators in the next 15 minutes or so. I want
    to start with Dr. Trawinski.
        We have all heard the phrase ``digital divide.'' We have
    heard that over and over again, especially in the context of
    high-speed internet or, I should say, the lack of access to
    high-speed internet. It obviously has a huge effect in
    communities that are more rural or small town communities. It
    obviously also affects older Americans and people with
    disabilities in a very disproportionate fashion.
        There is also a continuing failure really to deal with this
    until the recent infrastructure legislation, which I think will
    provide us some resources that we have never really had before
    to hit this problem pretty hard.
        In Pennsylvania, we have got 67 counties, but more than 70
    percent of them are rural counties, so we have a lot of places
    where there is lack of high-speed internet.
        One thing we found out during the pandemic was what was
    thought to be a predominantly, at least by way of region,
    predominantly a rural problem was in fact a problem within
    cities, even cities that were considered well connected. You
    had a lot of kids trying to do their homework in cities and
    could not do it for various reasons. Part of it was
    connectivity in their neighborhood; part of it was not having
    the resources to have the technology they needed, so you had
    kids, you know, sitting in a parking lot in a McDonald's trying
    to get connected to do their homework, so this is a rural
    problem. It is an urban problem. It is a small-town problem,
    but it is obviously a problem for individual Americans who
    might have a disability or are seniors.
        The infrastructure legislation helped, but--I would start
    with Dr. Trawinski on this--how can internet access improve
    financial inclusion among older adults and people with
    disabilities?
        Dr. Trawinski. Thank you, Chairman, for the question. This
    is a really important question because it affects millions of
    people. As someone who recently visited Bedford County,
    Pennsylvania, I am aware that there are some issues with
    internet access there. My mother comes from Bedford County, and
    I visit there often, so thank you.
        There are three key things that we need to address to
    improve outcomes for people in terms of gaining access to the
    internet, and you talked about one. Right? It is the idea that
    many rural communities and many urban communities do not have
    this access, so that is number one.
        Number two, is the affordability issue, and you also
    mentioned that. The Affordable Connectivity Program is key, and
    I think, you know, we are in agreement it is likely to help
    many more people than any existing programs that we have.
        There is a third area that we have not really touched upon
    yet this morning, and that is the idea that digital literacy
    and training people how to use the technology is really, really
    important, and for older adults, many of whom may not have a
    lot of experience using various technologies, they may face an
    even higher barrier to using technology, especially for
    transactions.
        AARP has a number of programs designed to help with that.
    We have the OATS program, which is a program designed to
    connect older people with training programs to teach them the
    latest digital technology. We also have another program through
    the AARP Foundation and Chase that is designed to help with the
    same issue but has specific training modules about financial
    access and technology, and another important part of that
    program involves providing information to fintech innovators on
    some of the things that they should think about when designing
    fintech solutions for older people.
        Finally, we need to do a better job of educating people
    about frauds and scams. Through the AARP BankSafe program, we
    are currently training frontline workers in financial
    institutions to recognize signs of fraud before the money
    leaves the account, and that is key. It is preventing the fraud
    from happening in the first place, so that is--you know, all of
    these things are important, and I think, you know, there will
    be more people using financial technology in the future and we
    all have a role to play in keeping people safe while they do
    that.
        The Chairman. Doctor, thanks very much, and I think the
    point you made about that training in digital literacy is going
    to be important as we move forward. It is one thing to build a
    better system, a better system of providing high-speed
    internet. It is another thing to make sure that folks have the
    training that they need, so that is something we will have to
    bear in mind.
        Ranking Member Scott, I turn to you.
        Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Certainly very,
    very helpful testimonies this morning. Thank you all for being
    a part of the solution as you are the ones oftentimes facing
    the challenges and the problems.
        Ms. Jaspering, thank you for your compelling testimony,
    your recommendations on legislative solutions to some of the
    things that you have faced in the real world of your
    experience, and that has been quite helpful for me. I would
    love to ask you a question after I give a short statement.
        Certainly, due to rising compliance costs and mergers, the
    number of community banks fell by somewhere around 30 percent
    from 2012 to 2019. Today, more than a third--as I said to Mr.
    Gilchrist, more than a third of rural America do not have local
    banks, brick-and-mortar. You cannot walk into your bank. You
    cannot have access to your local bank. Personal relationships
    with local community banks is vital, and for so many reasons
    the access that you get from your local bank is critically
    important.
        Frankly, as I was listening to your testimony, you
    reinforced that very important point that it is your
    relationship with your local bank that helps you avoid
    unnecessary fees, whether it is late fees or banking fees, and
    that really important relationship that you have with your
    local bank cannot be overestimated, but I would certainly love
    for you to talk to me for a few minutes about the importance of
    that relationship and how as you talked about levels of anxiety
    that relationship brings that anxiety down and allows you to
    plan for as much as you possibly can.
        Ms. Jaspering. Yes, thank you. Well, being a local, I have
    joined boards and other committees and met a lot of people, and
    because of my accident--it was in a small town. People tend to
    know who you are.
        This has been helpful because I know the person who manages
    my mortgage, and when I get a letter in the mail that says, oh,
    your mortgage is late and I call him, he is like, it is not a
    big deal. That is an automatic letter. We send that to everyone
    because mortgages are due at the beginning of the month.
        Due to the fact that Social Security Disability pays on the
    3d, I had originally set it up to pay on the 10th, and he said,
    that is not a problem at all. Do not even worry about it. We
    will not charge you the late fees.
        Before my accident, I had a small credit card through them
    with a $500 limit, and that had helped me with some emergency
    things, but I do not have that currently because I just want to
    make sure I stay out of debt, and so my parents have been able
    to help me out, so just having that community aspect has helped
    me to have a little less stress; that is for sure.
        Senator Tim Scott. Yes, ma'am. Well, thank you for that
    answer, Ms. Jaspering.
        One final question before my time perhaps runs out. This
    time I may come back around to you. You talked about the
    importance of overcoming some of the struggles because of your
    accident. You noted the struggle of finding a parking spot in
    your hometown because other drivers do not realize they need to
    leave space for the operation of your wheelchair lift. This
    makes running your errands, like going to your local bank that
    is quite cooperative, that much more difficult.
        The good news, in part, may be the evolution of financial
    technology and the ability to use things like mobile banking
    and peer-to-peer payment services, whether that is Venmo or
    whatever the latest, greatest way of being able to use
    technology to make your payments or to do things that might
    make your life a little easier and more flexible. Can you just
    talk about the importance of how some of the things that many
    may take for granted may actually make your life a little more
    easy?
        Ms. Jaspering. Definitely. I definitely use online banking,
    and Venmo helps me when a friend helps me out and I can just
    Venmo her.
        Senator Tim Scott. Awesome.
        Ms. Jaspering. When she pumps my gas for me and I just
    Venmo her the money to cover that.
        As far as people in Generation X, we are learning. We are
    still learning the technology, so it is interesting and risky
    to some to use that, but for me, technology is very important,
    definitely, because to have that easy access because I--dealing
    with parking, yes, you hit the note right there.
        Senator Tim Scott. Yes, ma'am.
        Ms. Jaspering. I do not like that at all.
        Senator Tim Scott. Well, thank you for sharing your story
    and your life with us for the last hour or so. We really
    appreciate your insight.
        Chairman?
        The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott.
        Ms. Jaspering, I think we will stay with you for this
    question, if you do not mind. I guess it is not every day that
    we get a witness from Iowa, so we are staying with her.
        You mentioned your parents have been a great source of
    financial advice and support for you, and we know that,
    unfortunately, studies show that people with disabilities tend
    to score lower on measures of financial literacy and have lower
    confidence in their financial literacy skills than the rest of
    the population, and the basic reason for that is that many
    people with disabilities lack a trusted resource, trusted
    resources, I should say, of help on financial matters.
        I mentioned earlier the booklet that Ranking Member Scott
    and I produced entitled Building Financial Literacy:
    Information and Resources for People with Disabilities. If you
    go through the book, it highlights a couple of areas of focus.
        At the beginning, the first area is on building credit, and
    it is kind of a recitation of the problem but then tips and
    considerations to take advantage of, whether it is getting
    started and how you build credit or improving credit scores.
    The second topic we talk about is managing debt, and again, it
    has tips in there for how to manage debt. The third is building
    savings through the ABLE accounts that I mentioned earlier, by
    virtue of that legislation. The next area is navigating
    benefits, enrolling, using, and maintaining eligibility for
    public benefits, whether it is Medicaid or SSI or SNAP. The
    next area is finding affordable and accessible housing, which
    is obviously a huge issue for so many Americans including those
    with disabilities. At the very end of the booklet, there is a
    picture of Senator Scott and I when we were much younger. You
    need to look at that.
        Senator Tim Scott. Nothing wrong with a glamour shot, Mr.
    Chairman. You remember Glamour Shots.
        The Chairman. Ah, the glamour shot, but we obviously
    prepared this book, and our staffs worked hard on it, to
    provide more information for greater financial literacy for
    people with disabilities, so that is a long predicate to my
    question, but, Ms. Jaspering, from your perspective, how
    important is it for people with disabilities to have resources,
    whether it is a resource like this, a printed material, but
    also access to someone to help them with their personal
    finances and maybe outlining some options for them?
        Ms. Jaspering. That is very important. I am glad that you
    have been working so hard on that because it has been a stress
    to my family to figure out how to manage when I need government
    assistance. Nobody in my family has ever needed that, so we--
    understanding how to manage your taxes and, like I said, I
    wanted to own a business and being able to--it is overwhelming
    to understand all the details in every program, and I do not
    want to lose any necessary benefits, like homecare, to be able
    to live.
        Having a hub for that information is great, and trusted
    people that have learned what works for everybody and how to
    manage that is very important because when you have an accident
    and you ask the social workers they do not always know where to
    lead you to, the most appropriate information, and there might
    be people that have been working and had 401(k)'s. There might
    be people that are just very low-income and they need to know
    how they can have an affordable apartment to live in so that
    they stay out of facilities.
        The Chairman. Well, that is a set of challenges for anyone,
    but thank you for sharing that from your personal perspective.
        Ranking Member Scott, I will turn back to you as we await
    several of our colleagues.
        Senator Tim Scott. Well, let me just say, Mr. Chairman,
    that one of the things I would suggest that is sometimes
    overlooked are the little things that we do to provide as much
    as information as possible about resources that are available
    through the government. I am not sure that we, as a Congress or
    as a Senate, do enough work to educate and inform the public on
    the multiple streams that are available through the government
    and building financial literacy. The booklet, pamphlet that you
    and put together, is an important part of trying to help people
    understand the resources that are available.
        As a guy who grew up in poverty and in a single-parent
    household, homeownership is something that was so elusive for
    my family for it felt like forever. My grandparents did not buy
    their first home until my grandfather was in his 60's almost,
    about 61 or 62, and so the page 15 in our little pamphlet talks
    about finding affordable and accessible housing, and I think
    about the comments that we have heard this morning, and it just
    reinforces not just simply having a house but having good
    accessibility when you have housing. That means for those with
    disabilities that the framework may be different, and that is
    such an important part.
        Listening to the testimony--in a former life, I served on a
    board at Habitat for Humanity, and to hear the work that they
    are doing in Iowa is really important for all of us to remember
    the importance of it, but this booklet can provide helpful
    hints and tips about that information.
        Mr. Chairman, I would say that another resource that we
    oftentimes do not hear a lot about is the resource of our
    offices. I know that my offices around South Carolina--and I am
    sure the same is true about your offices around Pennsylvania--
    is a place where people who need help understanding the
    quagmire pit that seems to be the Federal Government at times
    can actually be a place for help, and I would encourage those
    folks who are paying attention and need help from those of us
    who serve in public office to perhaps take a look at our
    offices. I know that my office has handled thousands upon
    thousands of disability cases, and I know that yours has done
    the same as well.
        I do think that we should make sure that the public
    understand and appreciate that important component that we can
    play beyond passing legislation. We have an absolute apparatus
    for the sole purpose of helping South Carolinians find help if
    the government, the Federal Government, should be a part of
    that solution or needs to be a part of that solution, and we
    take great pride in the number of cases that we spend a lot of
    time working upon.
        With that said, I will turn back to Mr. Gilchrist of South
    Carolina to talk through a really important issue, the Credit
    Access and Inclusion Act.
        Mr. Gilchrist, research shows that reporting alternative
    payment data like utility or cell phone bills, rent payments
    when you are renting, to credit agencies will help more
    Americans be able to access affordable credit. It will lead to
    over a 20 percent increase in prime credit for those earning
    less than $20,000 per year and a 15 percent increase to prime
    credit for those earning between $20,000 and $30,000 a year.
    That is one of the reasons why I introduced the Credit Access
    and Inclusion Act with Senator Manchin. That would make it
    easier for credit agencies to use this alternative data.
        The good news, Mr. Gilchrist, is, as I have had
    conversations with the three major reporting agencies, two of
    the three of those agencies have embraced the legislation
    before its passage and started making the type of changes that
    will help transform the experience, i.e., lower interest rates,
    and that means more money of yours that you get to keep. Could
    you explain how this bill, from your perspective working with
    so many businesses, might help not only those businesses but as
    the business owners age, become seniors, help those seniors
    achieve the dreams and goals that they aspire?
        Mr. Gilchrist. Well, thank you, Senator, for the question
    and thank you also for the legislation. We think it is
    monumental legislation, particularly in South Carolina, that
    can help people all across our country, and you know, one of
    the things that we discussed here in South Carolina regarding
    that legislation was how important it was to have balance, to
    be able to have balance in an evaluation of folk
    creditworthiness in a very different way.
        You know, people pay their utility bills. They pay their
    rent. They pay their car notes. They pay--young people pay
    their cell phone bills, and so when they have some of these
    barriers that the traditional institutions of banking and
    lending put in place because of certain credit, whether that is
    because they are new to the credit market or they may not have
    had credit in a while and have not used it in a while, this
    type of legislation certainly helps to be able to bridge that
    gap and be able to expand the opportunity for those who may not
    even--who may not have had an opportunity to access credit, the
    ability to be able to do so.
        We are very excited about that. I am encouraged to hear the
    credit rating agencies that have already expressed support for
    this piece of legislation. That is important, and we certainly
    stand ready to support this legislation and to enact it when
    the time comes, Senator, so again, thank you for your
    leadership on that.
        Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, sir, very much for your
    answer.
        Mr. Chairman?
        The Chairman. I turn next to Senator Blumenthal.
        Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks for
    having this hearing. The unbanked or underbanked part of our
    population is really deprived of what has become an essential
    service, and access is critical no matter what someone's age
    is.
        I have worked hard on this issue, along with a number of my
    colleagues, to pass legislation and encourage action among the
    private industry and government agencies. I recently introduced
    the Elder Abuse Protection Act of 2021 that builds on my 2017
    Elder Abuse Prevention and Prosecution Act by establishing the
    Elder Justice Initiative as a permanent office within the
    Department of Justice because what we have found is that 40
    percent of Connecticut households were struggling to make ends
    meet.
        Having a bank account, maintaining good credit, and making
    timely debt payments is out of reach for them, and I think the
    Department of Justice can effectively enforce laws, or more
    effectively enforce them, so as to address this problem, but
    the COVID-19 pandemic has exacerbated and exposed inequalities
    in our society that highlight the importance of this issue.
        I want to address this question to Dr. Trawinski. During
    your testimony, you mentioned personal savings is a pillar of
    financial security for older adults. I have co sponsored the
    American Opportunities Account Act, introduced by Senator
    Booker. It would provide children with a savings account at
    birth with annual contributions.
        We have similar legislation in Connecticut, championed by
    our treasurer, Shawn Wooden, that has established a Connecticut
    Baby Bonds program, creating trusts for children born into
    poverty, whose births are covered by the state's Medicaid
    program. Let me ask you, how will this kind of Baby Bonds
    program lay a foundation for financial security among older
    Americans and people with disabilities?
        Dr. Trawinski. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the
    question. There is no doubt that financial security will grow
    throughout a lifetime, and it is super important for it to
    start as early as possible.
        I am in a unique situation, I think. I was a student in a
    public school in northern New Jersey in the early 1970's, and
    at that time we had ``banking day'' every Tuesday, and the
    local bank came in, and we signed up for savings accounts, and
    every Tuesday the banking lady would come in, collect
    envelopes. We would have a little money in there. She would
    take them to the bank. Two days later, she would come back. We
    would get to see our deposit, and we would get to watch it grow
    over time.
        The idea of getting people used to savings at an early age,
    of using a banking system at an early age, is critical because
    we know that if you can save a little money and you face a
    financial emergency you can use that money to deal with it, and
    it helps keep you out of borrowing high-cost credit, so
    inclusion in the system is vital. Having access to a small pool
    of savings can make a world of difference over time, and we
    have actually studied this at AARP, and we have found that
    people who are able to maintain an emergency savings account
    will have better long-term financial security outcomes.
        Senator Blumenthal. I am struck by the early experience
    that you had, and I know that those small amounts can add up,
    but at the same time they are small amounts, and given the
    challenges of educational costs these days, wouldn't you agree
    that we need a Baby Bonds program that not only creates those
    trusts but also provides some money to go into it beyond what
    children may be able to afford in literally the nickels and
    dimes and maybe dollars that they are able to put into it?
        Dr. Trawinski. I think that what I can agree to is that it
    is an important issue and that we as an organization will be
    doing more work in this area, so for now, the best I can offer
    is it is certainly an important issue, and we are looking into
    it.
        Senator Blumenthal. Well, I do hope you will support it.
    Thank you.
        Dr. Trawinski. Thank you.
        Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal.
        Dr. Trawinski, maybe we will stay with you for a question.
    You noted during your testimony that owning a bank account and
    having credit are important dimensions of financial inclusion.
    Having and building credit makes it possible for older adults
    and people with disabilities to both live their lives and to
    plan for the lives they want to lead. We know that credit
    visibility gives people flexibility to address financial
    emergencies or to save for financial goals, whether it is
    owning a home or something else, and also the flexibility to
    develop and maintain retirement resources.
        We also know there are barriers faced by individuals and
    families opening bank accounts or entering the credit system or
    having access to financial services or products. These
    barriers, which are significant on their own, can be compounded
    by race or age or disability status.
        Here is the question. How does having access to credit or
    having a credit score or a bank account or access to loans with
    fair interest, how do all those opportunities affect the
    autonomy of an older person or a person with a disability?
        Dr. Trawinski. Thank you, Chairman. It is important for
    people to have access to the credit system at older ages
    because we will often see people going into retirement years
    with a reduced level of income, and at those times, we also
    know that because of things like inflation, or rising costs for
    things like medical care or prescription drugs, we will see
    budgets are stretched and people have to turn to other
    mechanisms to fund their longevity.
        Ideally, right, we want people to be able to choose how
    they live as they age, and for many people it means choosing to
    live independently in their own home, so if you are an older
    homeowner and you do not have a mortgage, you might be able to
    tap your home equity to get funds to be able to pay for home
    modifications so you can stay in your home, so that is an
    example where someone needs access to credit.
        Another example is people will sometimes not have enough
    money to meet their monthly expenses, and unfortunately, we are
    seeing many people, particularly people ages 75-plus, turning
    to the use of credit cards to fund those interim purchases.
    What is happening for many people, though, is they are carrying
    balances and they are getting larger and larger over time and
    they are not able to pay those off, so those are a couple of
    situations where having access to credit can help people get
    through some tough times.
        I also want to mention another situation we see pretty
    frequently, and this is a case where a husband may die suddenly
    and all of a sudden the wife is left to manage the family
    finances and she has never had to do that before.
        I actually have a cousin whose husband passed away, and she
    had no credit history because they bought their house for cash,
    there was no mortgage, they did not use credit cards because
    they paid cash for everything they needed, and now all of a
    sudden, she is in her early 60's and she is trying to figure
    out how to navigate a financial system that she has no
    experience dealing with, so these are the issues that people
    face, and there is a lot more that all of us can do to try to
    help get people up to speed on what is happening in the world
    of finance. I think the booklet that you have created will do a
    lot of great things to help the disability community. I think
    we need to advance further educational tools for all people and
    really at all ages because financial inclusion should begin at
    an early age and continue throughout someone's lifetime.
        The Chairman. Well, thanks very much, Doctor, for that.
        Ranking Member Scott, I know we are awaiting one more
    Senator who will be our final questioner.
        Senator Tim Scott. Yes, sir.
        The Chairman. Should be any minute here.
        Senator Tim Scott. The good news is, Mr. Chairman, this is
    such an important topic I would love to have another
    opportunity to ask a question.
        The Chairman. Take as much time as you need.
        Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Dr. Trawinski, you have made a number of really important
    points. One I hope that we would see implemented throughout the
    country, State by State, city by city, county by county, where
    we have banking days. I will say--I will concede that I did not
    have a banking day when I was a youngster in school, but it
    does sound like something that gives new meaning to the concept
    of financial literacy at a much earlier age.
        Much of the conversation that we are having today about
    being unbanked or credit invisible is something that could be
    perhaps eliminated or ended if we simply had something as
    simple as banking day, and I do want you to comment a little
    bit more about the importance of financial literacy or
    financial education early on because the miracle of compounding
    interest or the time value of money are terms and topics that
    we do not oftentimes hear discussed in any school, whether you
    are K-12 or college. Or, frankly, my nephew just graduated from
    medical school, did not receive financial literacy as a part of
    the curriculum in any of his advanced education or his basic
    education.
        Would you, at least for a few seconds, talk to us about the
    importance of banking day and/or the importance of financial
    literacy starting as early as humanly possible, maybe when you
    are reading and writing for the first time?
        Dr. Trawinski. Thank you. You make an excellent point that
    it is important to look into the childhood years to build these
    financial behaviors, and the other--so we learn financial
    behavior by either doing them ourselves, as I did because I had
    a very special opportunity to bank as a young child--but the
    other way we learn about money is from our parents, and so that
    is another issue that people face. If you had parents who were
    savers, who had the ability to save, you observed a set of
    behaviors that you will then eventually model yourself, but if
    you had a family that struggled and maybe they did not
    participate in the banking system, you had a different set of
    experiences.
        I would agree with you that, you know, starting early means
    building good behaviors early and, ideally, before high school,
    long before college, long before you take on that student loan
    debt and then you have to--you owe thousands and thousands of
    dollars, and then you have to figure out how you are going to
    pay it back. Absolutely start younger, and I think, you know,
    that is how we will change outcomes for many, many people.
        Senator Tim Scott. Dr. Trawinski, you just made a comment
    that reminded me of someone who said it. It was not me first,
    but certainly OK to take the credit for it even though I do not
    deserve it. It is that ``Habits are caught, not taught.''
        Listening to what you were talking about there with parents
    or experiences early in life, so often the habits that we form,
    it is not from what people teach us; it is from what we see,
    and our parents' behavior is how you embolden or reinforce this
    notion that what we oftentimes see in our homes is what we do
    ourselves, and we do those things unconsciously. Hence, the
    concept of ``Habits are caught, not taught.''
        I will say that the importance of my question as it relates
    to financial literacy starting at an earlier age is the fact
    that, as I did a little research, sitting here listening to her
    speak, was that it appears that 40 percent of Americans, when
    they retire at age 65, depend solely on Social Security for
    their retirement income. Ma'am, I would love to hear your
    thoughts on financial literacy as relates to our seniors who
    are struggling, frankly, with an average Social Security income
    around $1,500 a month. How do we prevent that from being the
    case for the next wave of seniors coming into retirement?
        Frankly, another stat that I heard, ma'am, was that
    somewhere around 40-44 percent of 60-year-olds have less than 1
    year of annual income in their 401(k).
        Dr. Trawinski. Yes, thank you, Senator. You know, building
    savings over a lifetime can help people supplement the money
    they receive from Social Security, and Social Security is
    absolutely a critical program for so many people in our
    country, but the ability to save money is also a function of
    how much income you have.
        One of the things we are seeing currently is very large
    increases in the amount of debt that older families are
    carrying. The more debt you carry the more you have to then pay
    each month to keep up with it. It is taking away money for
    other purposes and, unfortunately, in some cases, for things
    like food and prescription medications, so you know, if someone
    can save money from an early age and build savings throughout a
    lifetime and use 401(k) programs or work-and-save programs, any
    kind of retirement saving programs that are available to them,
    they will have a better chance of having a more secure
    retirement.
        Senator Tim Scott. Mr. Chairman, I know I ran a little over
    time. Thank you for your indulgence there. It is an issue that
    I care a lot about and worked on in the Banking Committee.
        I will say that these stats are old and they may not still
    be true, but I think they are relatively true. As a kid who
    came out of college and went into the financial services arena
    quickly thereafter, one of the lessons I learned early on was
    that: A 19-or 20-year-old starts savings about $100 a month. By
    the time they are 65, at a fairly high interest rate, they are
    a millionaire. The 40-year-old who starts saving $1,000 a month
    never gets there, so the time value of money is critical as it
    relates to the topic that we are talking about and
    understanding that as early as possible in life helps us bridge
    the gap. We talk about the importance of abundance versus
    scarcity as it relates to the people who are facing the
    challenges that we have, but if we could start with just a few
    dollars at a very young age, we do create tailwinds as opposed
    to the headwinds that happen when you are closer to my age and
    trying to figure this out.
        I think this is a very important and timely topic that so
    many folks will benefit from as we continue the hearing.
        The Chairman. The earlier the better?
        Senator Tim Scott. Yes, sir.
        The Chairman. Well, we are joined by our final questioner,
    Senator Rosen.
        Senator Rosen. Well, thank you, Chair Casey and, of course,
    Ranking Member Scott. I do agree with you; the earlier the
    better it is to start saving, and the more we help people do
    that the better everyone is.
        Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.
        I really want to build on those questions that Ranking
    Member Scott talked about, improving financial literacy,
    particularly in our rural and underserved communities, because
    it is a critical part of increasing--financial literacy is
    critical to increasing access to banking and credit, ultimately
    growing personal wealth and, of course, improving communities
    when people have more to spend, and so I commend both the Chair
    and Ranking Member for shedding light on this important issue
    in a recent report and booklet that examines the financial
    literacy needs of older Americans with disabilities.
        It is imperative we improve it in states like mine, in
    Nevada, where our rural communities and our communities of
    color are disproportionately unbanked or underbanked and less
    likely to be included in financial markets or represented by
    more traditional financial institutions.
        Mr. Stinchcombe, as a former computer programmer and
    someone who took care of my aging parents and in-laws, I am
    curious to learn more about the innovative technology work done
    at True Link Financial to offer financial services customized
    for seniors, and can you discuss how your company is utilizing
    data-driven strategies to improve financial literacy,
    particularly among our underserved, our rural communities? We
    really need to get everybody connected to these kinds of
    services, using the technology we have available.
        Mr. Stinchcombe. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I
    think that you are right to start with the connectivity
    question, that the more people are connected and the more they
    are fluent in demanding internet users the more they will
    expect their banks to do better and the more they will shop for
    alternatives, nationally, from other banks and from fintech
    companies, so I think that that is a really good place to
    start.
        I think it is also there are questions about how the
    technology industry approaches aging in general, that often the
    entrepreneurs are thinking about more ways to order lunch at
    your desk and less about the extraordinarily large population
    of underserved seniors, and I think that that is a mistake. I
    think it is a missed opportunity, and I think that educating
    the business sector in general, and especially, you know,
    venture capital and funders, about how large this opportunity
    is--is going to be really important to addressing that gap.
        Senator Rosen. Well, I could not agree with you more. I was
    on the broadband infrastructure group that negotiated that $65
    billion for broadband across the United States, so I think I
    might be interested to see some data mapping reports on how
    access to the internet and financial independence really link
    itself up. This is why we know we have to get broadband out to
    each home, every community, across America. Nothing could be
    more important, particularly for our rural communities and good
    broadband for our underserved.
        Dr. Trawinski, I would like to go on to you and talk about
    retirement trends among workers of color. We know one third of
    Latino families, less than half of Black families in the U.S.
    currently have retirement account savings compared with roughly
    two-thirds of White families. In Nevada alone, Latinos make up
    nearly 30 percent of our population, and more than 10 percent
    of Nevada's residents are Black, so what can Congress do to
    help ensure that all workers, particularly workers of color in
    really diverse states like Nevada, have access to retirement
    accounts, and what lessons can we learn from your research that
    can be applied to my State of Nevada?
        Dr. Trawinski. Thank you, Senator. One of the things that
    we are doing at AARP is we are working on work-and-save
    programs. These are programs designed to allow small employers
    to offer a way for their employees to save because usually what
    you see are large employers may provide access to a 401(k) but
    small employers do not have that capability, so through the
    work-and-save advocacy that we are doing, we are trying to get
    more states involved in offering these plans that would help
    smaller employers have access to retirement savings, so that is
    one thing.
        In terms of, you know, rural issues, you know, yes, access
    to banking, access to savings and retirement planning, access
    to resources can happen using the internet. We talked earlier
    in the hearing about, you know, broadband internet access,
    affordable internet access because that is another part of it,
    some people cannot afford it. We also talked about digital
    literacy training, and one thing that we did not talk about is
    access to affordable devices because in some cases people
    cannot even afford the devices they need to connect, so those
    are areas that, you know, we are working on, and then the other
    thing I would say, you know, for workers across the spectrum,
    Social Security continues to remain a very important pillar of
    support at older ages, and the importance of it cannot be
    understated.
        Senator Rosen. Thank you. I see, Mr. Chairman, my time is
    up. I appreciate all of you for being here today. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Senator Rosen, thanks very much.
        We will turn next to Senator Gillibrand.
        Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Millions of
    Americans live in bank deserts, regions without immediate
    access to traditional banking facilities, and as you
    highlighted, 7.1 million American households are underbanked.
    My legislation, the Postal Banking Act, would reestablish
    postal banking to provide financial security to millions of
    Americans.
        Dr. Trawinski, what impact would providing banking services
    at the U.S. Postal Service, as outlined in my legislation, have
    on underserved communities such as older adults and people with
    disabilities, and do you believe it would significantly and
    meaningfully expand financial inclusion?
        Dr. Trawinski. Thank you, Senator. You know, we have looked
    at this issue because, you know, we know that in the 1960's
    that there was banking available through post offices and then
    it stopped. It can be a way to get these services to more
    people.
        What is critical, though, before we change things to allow
    that is to ensure that financial protections, consumer
    protections are in place to ensure that the postal workers are
    trained properly, and we also want to make sure that if it ends
    up being something where it is the use of prepaid cards--we
    have seen a lot of fraud and scam where people are tricked into
    using these cards or having their money stolen through the use
    of those cards, so the issue is we have to be careful, but I
    think, you know, it is a possibility of providing access to
    more people.
        Senator Gillibrand. Mainstream financial institutions and
    predatory lenders are often taking advantage of the
    underbanked, as you mention, with high fees, interest rates
    that keep them in a cycle of poverty. Predatory financial
    services, such as prepaid debit cards, rent-to-own stores,
    overdraft fees often exploit the most vulnerable populations,
    including low-income individuals, rural communities, veterans
    and senior citizens, especially in times of economic crisis.
        Dr. Trawinski, do you think that reestablishing bank
    services at the post offices is an effective means of combating
    predatory financial services toward seniors?
        Dr. Trawinski. I think that it is a possibility, so without
    understanding more about the way we would build in the
    protections, I am not able to answer, but I would be happy to
    get back to you. If you can provide more specific information,
    we will study it and let you know.
        Senator Gillibrand. Mr. Stinchcombe, do you have a
    perspective on whether postal banking would be effective in
    stemming the tide of predatory lending and banking services and
    provide more opportunities for seniors and people with
    disabilities?
        Mr. Stinchcombe. I am just personally so enthusiastic about
    things that give people more options. I think that especially
    in a digital age it is oversimplifying to say that people will
    find the best option, but I think that the more options people
    have and the more connectivity they have the better services
    they are going to be given.
        Senator Gillibrand. Thank you very much.
        Ms. Jaspering, a key component of inclusion in wealth
    building and long-term savings is the ability to have private
    funds that assist with maintaining health, independence, and
    quality of life. The ABLE accounts do exactly that, and so I am
    grateful that we have supported the creation of those accounts.
        I appreciate you sharing your experience. How would
    creating an ABLE account help you in maintaining health,
    independence, and quality of life?
        Ms. Jaspering. Thank you. It would change my life. I would
    be able to save for emergencies or to be able to live my life
    like I lived before and to be able to purchase things that
    disability equipment that is not covered. Just, there is so
    many opportunities when you are allowed to save money.
        The restrictions on not being allowed to save I find are
    ridiculous because I cannot live my life. I mean, I worry every
    day. Oh, do I have too much in my bank account? Did I work too
    many hours this month? I should not have to worry about that.
    You know, I should be able to save money like I was taught to
    growing up.
        Senator Gillibrand. Yes, that makes sense. Well, thank you
    so much, and thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Gillibrand.
        Well, I want to thank all of our witnesses, and we are
    going to conclude the hearing. I want to thank in particular
    each witness for their testimony today and for the expertise
    and, in almost every instance, their personal story.
        I want to thank Ranking Member Scott for hosting this
    hearing, and Ranking Member Scott will submit a statement for
    the record for the close of this hearing.
        The Chairman. Today's hearing highlighted the importance of
    financial inclusion for people with disabilities and older
    adults. It affirmed that we should set up Americans for success
    in the earliest stages of their lives through children's
    savings accounts. For people with disabilities, we know that 26
    percent of them live in poverty, and we learned that being
    banked and building credit are essential to building economic
    security.
        As Ms. Jaspering's testimony shows, some people with
    disabilities are arbitrarily prevented from saving for their
    futures. We have to stop penalizing people for wanting to
    contribute to their own financial security, and the bipartisan
    ABLE Age Adjustment Act is a good step in that direction.
        We also must ensure our Nation's seniors have access to
    quality financial services that help them maintain their
    independence and protect their money from those who engage in
    fraud, the fraud practitioners or fraudsters, the scam artists,
    the con artists, all of them.
        I, again, want to thank Ranking Member Scott for suggesting
    this hearing topic, and I look forward to working with this
    Committee and working with him to address barriers that we
    heard about today.
        Before we close, let me remind you about the availability
    of our new booklet, the one that I made reference to as did
    Ranking Member Scott, Building Financial Literacy: Information
    and Resources for People with Disabilities. This is available
    on the Aging Committee's website, which is Aging.Senate.gov.
    You can contact the Committee to get a copy of this.
        If any Senators have additional questions for the witnesses
    or statements to be added for the record, the hearing record
    will be open for 7 days, until next Thursday, March 24th.
        I want to thank everyone for participating today.
        This concludes our hearing.
        [Whereupon, at 11:23 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

    =======================================================================

                                    APPENDIX

    =======================================================================

                          Prepared Witness Statements

    =======================================================================
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    =======================================================================

                            Questions for the Record

    =======================================================================
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    =======================================================================

                            Statement for the Record

    =======================================================================

                           Closing Remarks of

                   Senator Tim Scott, Ranking Member

     "Unbanked and Credit Invisible: Building Financial Inclusion
                 for America's Underserved Populations"

                               03/17/2022

        Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the witnesses for
    your testimonies regarding the challenges facing unbanked and
    credit invisible Americans. Mr. Gilchrist, and organizations
    like the South Carolina African American Chamber of Commerce
    are making a difference through educational opportunities that
    will open the doors to credit, so thank you for your work.
        As a kid who came out of college and went into the
    financial services arena quickly thereafter, I learned that
    allowing people to prove they are financially responsible is
    crucial to them realizing the American dream, but people first
    need the opportunity to prove themselves.
        One of the lessons I learned early on was that a nineteen
    or twenty-year old who starts saving about one hundred dollars
    a month, by the time they're sixty-five, at a fairly high
    interest rate, they're a millionaire. The forty-year old who
    starts saving a thousand dollars a month never gets there.
        The time value of money is critical as it relates to the
    topic that we're talking about. If a person has the opportunity
    to start with just a few dollars at a very young age, they
    create tailwinds as opposed to the headwinds that happen when
    you're closer to my age, trying to figure this out.
        On this issue, the bipartisan Credit Access and Inclusion
    Act is a necessary step towards helping millions of Americans
    prove their credit worthiness, and avoiding those headwinds.
    Research shows that reporting alternative payment data, like
    utilities or cell phone bills, will help more Americans access
    affordable credit. That is why Senator Manchin and I introduced
    this act, so that it will be easier for credit agencies to use
    this alternative data. In fact, two of the three major
    reporting agencies have already embraced the legislation before
    its passage and started lowering interest rates.
        It's critical that we talk about ways to help people become
    financially independent and prepare for a fruitful retirement,
    and so, thank you all for being here and I look forward to
    continuing this discussion on the Committee.

                                  [all]