[Senate Hearing 117-217]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 117-217

                     THE U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS 
                    EMERGENCY RESPONSE TO HURRICANE IDA

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                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                            OCTOBER 6, 2021

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
  
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               COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                  THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West 
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont                 Virginia, 
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island         Ranking Member
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts      KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois            CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
ALEX PADILLA, California             ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
                                     DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
                                     JONI ERNST, Iowa
                                     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina

             Mary Frances Repko, Democratic Staff Director
               Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

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                                                                   Page

                            OCTOBER 6, 2021
                            
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware..     1
Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West 
  Virginia.......................................................     3

                               WITNESSES

Graham, Major General William ``Butch,'' Deputy Commanding 
  General for Civil and Emergency Operations, U.S. Army Corps of 
  Engineers......................................................     5
    Prepared statement...........................................     7
    Responses to additional questions from Senator Carper........    14
    Response to an additional question from:
        Senator Cardin...........................................    16
        Senator Inhofe...........................................    20
        Senator Wicker...........................................    21
Tickner, Brigadier General Thomas, Commander, North Atlantic 
  Division, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.........................    23
    Prepared statement...........................................    25
    Responses to additional questions from Senator Carper........    30
    Response to an additional question from:
        Senator Cardin...........................................    32
        Senator Inhofe...........................................    36
Murphy, Colonel Stephen, Commander, New Orleans District, U.S. 
  Army Corps of Engineers........................................    38
    Prepared statement...........................................    40
    Responses to additional questions from Senator Carper........    45
    Response to an additional question from:
        Senator Inhofe...........................................    47
        Senator Wicker...........................................    48

 
  THE U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS EMERGENCY RESPONSE TO HURRICANE IDA

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                       WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:07 a.m. in 
room 406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper 
(Chairman of the Committee) presiding.
    Present: Senators Carper, Capito, Cardin, Whitehouse, 
Kelly, Inhofe, Boozman, and Ernst.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER, 
            U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

    Senator Carper. Good morning, everybody. I am pleased to 
join Senator Capito and our colleagues in calling this hearing 
to order.
    Welcome, everyone.
    To our witnesses joining us today from the U.S. Army Corps 
of Engineers; Major General Butch Graham; how long have people 
been calling you Butch?
    General Graham. Senator, since I was born. So, I am a 
junior, and my dad took Bill Graham, so they didn't call me 
Billy Graham.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Carper. My mother wanted me to grow up and be Billy 
Graham. Down in Danville, Virginia, we spent a lot of time in a 
Baptist church, so you know what I mean.
    Welcome, Butch Graham, and welcome to Brigadier General Tom 
Tickner, nice to see you again, and to Colonel Steve Murphy. We 
are glad that you could join us today.
    To the folks that are behind you and part of your 
supporting team, we welcome all of you.
    Thank you for joining us for what, sadly, has become an all 
too frequent issue over that last couple of years, and that is 
providing emergency response in the aftermath of extreme 
weather.
    Each of our witnesses comes from a different position 
within the Corps, and actually from different parts of the 
country, that we were just talking about. They all are going to 
be able to share with us their points of view on the Corps' 
response to Hurricane Ida, as well as their thoughts on 
investing in more resilient water resources infrastructure or 
building back better, as our President likes to say.
    As we all know, since 1980, North Atlantic hurricanes have 
become more intense, and unfortunately, more frequent. This 
trend is projected to continue in the years ahead as our planet 
continues to warm. Accordingly, the importance of the Corps' 
emergency response services will grow, as well.
    That is why we must ensure that all parts of our 
government, that includes Federal, local, and State, are all 
working together in lockstep to improve the resiliency of our 
infrastructure so it can withstand these extreme storms.
    In New Orleans, the 14 and a half billion dollar flood 
protection system built after Hurricane Katrina is a good 
example, really, a great example of a smart, all of government 
approach to resilience, one where the Federal Government funded 
the total cost of the project and the State of Louisiana has 
now begun to pay back its share.
    They have, actually, a similar arrangement on a highway in 
Delaware, Route 301. If you get to drive out of here and go 
east from DC and go through Maryland and finally get into 
Delaware, 301, the Federal Government upfronted the money, and 
the State of Delaware is paying it back with tolls, a similar 
kind of approach.
    When Hurricane Ida made landfall exactly 16 years after 
Katrina, this new system was put to its first test.
    Fortunately, it held strong and prevented the catastrophic 
flooding in New Orleans that we saw in 2005. This is where we 
can see that Federal investment in resiliency pays real 
dividends, but challenges still remain.
    One of the biggest obstacles with projects like the one in 
Louisiana, as well as the Indian River Inlet in Delaware, is 
that States and localities often rely on reimbursements from 
the Corps to cover the costs of operating and maintaining these 
projects after they are constructed.
    But the Corps, constrained by politics and budget 
shortfalls, can't always recover all of these costs, leaving 
States and communities to foot the bills.
    The result is that areas strapped for resources are unable 
to make the investments in resilience that they desperately 
need, and we know that the need is real. The stakes could not 
be higher, including our economy, our homes, and people's very 
lives and livelihoods are at stake.
    Just look at how Louisiana fared during Ida. While 
sophisticated water infrastructure in New Orleans protected 
much of the city from flooding, other communities in the State 
were devastated. We might have a photo of that. Yes, there we 
go.
    In my home State of Delaware, which found itself in the 
path of Ida's remnants as the storm turned north, we 
experienced severe beach erosion; we experienced flooding and 
wind gusts of up to 60 miles per hour. I think we have a shot 
of Smith Bridge Road that we saw.
    New Jersey faced similar shoreline erosion, and many of us 
saw the videos of water rushing through and flooding New York 
City's subway systems. While the final number of deaths 
attributed to Hurricane Ida is not yet in, so we know 29 
confirmed deaths in Louisiana and more than 40 in New York and 
New Jersey, with deaths reported in at least seven additional 
States.
    In addition to its tragic human toll, experts project Ida's 
economic impact at over $90 billion, making it the seventh--
seventh--costliest hurricane to hit the United States since the 
year 2000. Just think about that: Seven hurricanes, each 
responsible for more than $90 billion in economic impact, all 
within 20 years; seven within 20 years.
    Like all major storms, Ida is teaching us a lot, including 
about what works and what does not work.
    While we can all be thankful for the feat of human 
engineering that protected New Orleans, one of the Nation's 
most vital port systems, from Ida's destruction, we must also 
recognize that, until we address the root causes of climate 
change, the U.S. will continue to face natural disasters of 
increasing severity and intensity with even more devastating 
impacts. That is why we need to rapidly and dramatically reduce 
our greenhouse gas emissions, while we increase investments in 
resilience and create a lot of jobs while doing so.
    Benjamin Franklin once said that an ounce of prevention is 
worth a pound of cure, and his words still ring true today.
    The Corps of Engineers Civil Works Program provides 
tremendous value to our Nation as the primary provider of water 
resources infrastructure.
    And with more extreme weather events caused by a changing 
climate, it has never been more important that our 
infrastructure stands up to the growing challenge and protects 
the people that we all represent.
    We look forward to hearing each of your testimonies today, 
but first, I want to turn to Shelley Capito; we call each other 
wingman and wingwoman, but we are partners in crime here, but 
hopefully partners for doing a lot of good. I want to turn to 
her for her opening statement.
    We all have competing hearings that are going on right now. 
I have a business meeting going on in the Homeland Security and 
Government Affairs Committee, for which I used to Chair.
    It is a business meeting where they need me to come and be 
there for a quorum and to do votes. We are going to do that at 
the beginning, and then you are in charge and will start our 
witnesses' testimonies, and I will come back as fast as I can.
    Thank you, Senator Capito.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, 
          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

    Senator Capito. Thank you, and good morning to everybody.
    It is good to see a familiar face here in Major General 
Graham, who served as Commander of the Pittsburgh District.
    When I was in Congress, you were my Corps leader, which 
covers a significant portion of my State of West Virginia.
    Colonel Murphy, thank you for being here today and for the 
warm hospitality extended by you and your team to the Committee 
staff during their visit to Corps facilities in Louisiana 
earlier this year.
    And I want to thank you also, General Tickner, for being 
here with us today.
    Thank you for your service. I know some of it has not been 
domestic; some of it has been international, and I thank you 
for that.
    We all intently watched the impacts and aftermaths of 
Hurricane Ida, both in Louisiana, but also in the Northeast. 
Tragically, an estimated 82 people lost their lives and 
billions of dollars in damages. Those of us from States and 
communities that have recently experienced terrible natural 
disasters feel greatly for our fellow Americans impacted by 
this hurricane.
    As both Ranking Member of this Committee and also of the 
Homeland Security Appropriations Subcommittee, my staff and I 
have stayed abreast of FEMA's response to this disaster and the 
efforts of other agencies providing support, such as the Corps. 
How important that has been.
    By the most recent count, the Corps has more than 710 
personnel deployed and received 24 mission assignments, 
totaling $223.4 million in response to Hurricane Ida. The Corps 
has also issued $2.5 million in Flood Control and Coastal 
Emergency funds under Public Law 84-99. This funding went 
toward the protection and repair of critical infrastructure, as 
well as the provision of equipment and facilities to fight 
floods and maintain essential services.
    Again, I want to reiterate my gratitude to the men and 
women of the Corps for performing these critical functions. I 
am also eager to hear from you on how we can support the Corps' 
efforts to help the Nation respond and recover from these types 
of disasters in the future.
    By all accounts, and our Chair talked about this, the 
Hurricane Storm Damage Risk Reduction System, known as HSDRRS, 
for New Orleans authorized by Congress and constructed by the 
Corps after the catastrophe of Hurricane Katrina performed as 
intended. The system prevented a more significant loss of life 
and severe damage to the city.
    Not all areas are covered by the system, however, and that 
is where we saw the devastation in those unprotected 
communities in Louisiana and replicated in the northeastern 
States.
    It is important that local, State, and Federal partners 
continue to work together to identify and address existing gaps 
in flood risk management and coastal storm damage reduction.
    The $5.7 billion in supplemental funding provided by the 
Congress to the Corps just last week will support these 
efforts. Solutions will take time, however, which is why it is 
also important that the Corps continues to work with 
communities to identify and mitigate risks through its Silver 
Jackets Program, Planning Assistance to States, and other 
authorities.
    Challenges with and suggested improvements to existing 
technical assistance programs are something that I am keen on 
hearing from all of you. I am also eager to hear about how we 
can support the Corps' efforts to help the Nation respond and 
recover from these disasters in the future.
    This Committee will do its part in this process by 
authorizing individual projects and studies and providing 
programmatic direction to the Corps through biennial Water 
Resources Development Act legislation, which we are actively 
engaged in right now.
    In closing, let me reiterate our gratitude, and again, I 
want to thank Chairman Carper for having this hearing.
    Senator Capito [presiding]. I would like to introduce our 
witnesses in the absence of our Chair.
    First, Major General William ``Butch'' Graham is the 
current Deputy Commanding General for Civil and Emergency 
Operations at Headquarters, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, where 
he oversees all the Corps Civil Works activities, a $7 billion 
annual program, and responses to storms and other natural 
disasters.
    His previous Corps assignments include Commander of North 
Atlantic Division and the Pittsburgh District, from which he 
hails.
    Our second witness is Brigadier General Tom Tickner, the 
current Commander of the North Atlantic Division. He oversees 
all aspects of a $5 billion annual program that covers six 
districts, including activities in more than a dozen States, 
Africa, and Europe. His previous Corps command assignments 
include Pacific Ocean Division, Savannah Division, and 
Philadelphia District.
    Our third witness is Colonel Steve Murphy. He is the 
current Commander of the New Orleans District, where he 
oversees all Corps activities in southern Louisiana, so you are 
a busy man. He previously commanded the Nashville District of 
the Corps of Engineers.
    I want to welcome each of you to the Committee today. We 
appreciate your service to the country and look forward to your 
statements.
    General Graham, we will start with you.

  STATEMENT OF MAJOR GENERAL WILLIAM ``BUTCH'' GRAHAM, DEPUTY 
  COMMANDING GENERAL FOR CIVIL AND EMERGENCY OPERATIONS, U.S. 
                    ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS

    General Graham. Ranking Member Capito and distinguished 
members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify today to discuss the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers 
emergency response to Hurricane Ida.
    Again, I am Major General Butch Graham, the Deputy 
Commanding General for Civil and Emergency Operations here at 
headquarters.
    I would like to start by extending our sincere condolences 
to the families who lost loved ones during Hurricane Ida. Our 
thoughts and prayers are with those who have been impacted by 
this storm.
    As was mentioned, Hurricane Ida made landfall on August 
29th as a category 4 storm and immediately began to draw 
comparisons to Hurricane Katrina. As was mentioned, following 
Hurricane Katrina and the devastating flooding in the city of 
New Orleans, $14.5 billion Hurricane and Storm Damage Risk 
Reduction System was built. As its name implies, it was built 
to reduce the risk of flooding caused by storms to the city. 
During Hurricane Ida, this system performed exactly as 
designed.
    The projects the Corps builds help the reduce the flood 
risk of vulnerable communities. We must also be prepared to 
respond when some of those flood risks are actually realized. 
This aspect of resiliency is achieved through our emergency 
response partnerships with FEMA, State and local governments, 
and our key contracting partners.
    In response to Hurricane Ida, as many as 760 Corps 
personnel have been deployed, so we snuck an extra 50 in on 
you.
    The Corps has indeed done 24 FEMA Mission Assignments, 
totaling almost a quarter-billion dollars. As was mentioned, 
under our Public Law 84-99 authorities, the Corps has issued 
$2.5 million of Flood Control and Coastal Emergency funds.
    As part of this massive response, with the team I am 
immensely proud of, I would like to highlight one of our 
missions: Temporary roofing. Operation Blue Roof is managed by 
the Corps on behalf of FEMA. The goal of the program is to 
provide homeowners in disaster areas with industrial strength 
sheeting to protect storm damaged roofs. This allows residents 
to return to their homes, restarting local communities and 
local economies.
    Since September 1st, the Corps has received over 34,000 
valid requests. As of this morning, we have completed over 
half: 17,000 roofs have been installed to date.
    To put this in context, last year for the two hurricanes 
that hit the Gulf Coast, Laura and Delta, the Corps installed 
13,000. So, 13,000 last year, and we are up to 34,000 we need 
to install this year, and we have completed 17,000 to date. 
This threefold increase provides a perspective of just how 
damaging Ida was.
    After any event, working with FEMA, we critically evaluate 
ourselves to see where we can improve. For the temporary 
roofing mission, even though we are installing roofs at almost 
twice the rate as our previous efforts, we are looking for ways 
to get started sooner by speeding up how we get work orders to 
our contractors and by bringing in, potentially, our 
contractors early, pre-landfall.
    Looking more broadly, we continue to see record setting 
severe weather events across the Nation. Last year alone, we 
responded to 28 different disasters, including 10 hurricanes, 
nine major floods, and three major wildfires.
    One of the ways we are responding to this challenge in the 
future is by incorporating climate change resiliency into our 
planning process, giving the scale of climate change a broader, 
more regional approach to planning for future events as 
required. Recently, the Chief of Engineers made a 
recommendation for the authorization of a $29 billion system 
wide risk management strategy for the coastline of Texas.
    When looking at any future project, we understand that we 
need to comprehensively evaluate and analyze all project 
benefits. The Water Resources Development Act of 2020 created 
flexibility for the Army Corps to address the needs of 
economically disadvantaged communities, minority communities, 
and rural communities. The act promotes an approach that 
analyzes multiple benefits for project justification: Social 
benefits, economic benefits, and environmental benefits.
    The authorities in this act encourage the use of natural 
and nature based features, seek alternatives to accommodate for 
sea level rise, and inspire innovative ways to expand 
beneficial reuse of dredged material. We are working hard to 
put these new authorities to work for the American people.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to speak today. I look 
forward to answering any questions.
    [The prepared statement of General Graham follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Capito. Thank you.
    General Tickner.

STATEMENT OF BRIGADIER GENERAL THOMAS TICKNER, COMMANDER, NORTH 
        ATLANTIC DIVISION, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS

    General Tickner. Ranking Member Capito, distinguished 
members of the Committee, I am Brigadier General Tom Tickner, 
Commander of the Corps' North Atlantic Division. Thank you for 
the opportunity to provide some context to the Corps' response 
to Hurricane Ida in the Northeast region.
    As storm risk management is a shared responsibility, one 
executed best in a whole of community approach, the Corps 
partners with Federal agencies and non-Federal stakeholders. 
This collective skill set, combined with the capability, 
enhanced our effectiveness in preparing for, responding to, and 
recovering from storm events.
    In my role, I am responsible for Federal engineering work 
in all parts of the 14 northeastern States, from Virginia to 
Maine.
    Before the storm hit our region, my districts were able to 
obtain reliable advance information concerning potential Ida 
impacts from the National Hurricane Center, the U.S. Geological 
Survey, the National Weather Service River Forecast Centers, 
and other meteorological data. This data, obtained through 
Public Law 84-99 authority, assisted in the accurate prediction 
of potential consequences Ida could bring, and we were able to 
communicate this risk to FEMA and the States through the Corps' 
mapping systems.
    To manage risk to Corps owned and operated projects, USACE 
conducted predictive analysis based on weather forecasts, and 
the division lowered its Corps' dam reservoir elevations before 
the rain arrived to retain the maximum amount of flood storage 
available to reduce potential impacts downstream.
    We provided early support to our State and local partners 
by contacting them to determine their needs. Several of our 
district emergency operation centers activated to provide 
technical assistance under P.L. 84-99. Flood fighting 
materials, such as sandbags, plastic sheeting, and alternate 
flood fighting materials, were placed on standby, 
prepositioned, and ultimately released as needed.
    When the remnants of Hurricane Ida arrived, we were 
impacted mostly by significant fluvial events where rainfall 
overwhelmed stormwater systems and inundated local streams, 
leading to flash flood events and isolated tornadoes.
    As part of our post-emergency assessments, I was able to 
conduct site surveys of locations within the storm's impact 
area. These locations included areas where the Corps has 
conducted studies, as in the Passaic River Basin, New Jersey; 
Manville, New Jersey; and in Merrimac, New York.
    I also surveyed sites where the Corps has active projects, 
like the Indian Rock Dam in York, Pennsylvania, and the Raritan 
River in Bound Brook, New Jersey, and I am happy to report our 
projects performed as designed.
    Finally, I observed areas where there was significant 
impact, but no current Corps projects or studies, like the 
Brandywine and Schuylkill Rivers areas of Philadelphia.
    We also provided technical expertise to the States, 
including a Corps liaison officer to both Pennsylvania and New 
Jersey State Emergency Operation Centers. A subject matter 
expert on watering and debris removal to New Jersey EOC and on 
watering information for the Pennsylvania Department of 
Transportation. Both FEMA Regions 2 and 3, along with the 
States they supported, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York, 
were satisfied with our proactive approach to this event.
    In the aftermath of Superstorm Sandy, Congress asked USACE 
to prepare a performance report analyzing how our completed 
projects performed. That report and other work following Sandy 
has heightened our intent to build resilience into our coastal 
storm risk management and flood risk management projects.
    Together with our Federal and non-Federal partners, we are 
currently completing post-storm evaluations to determine 
impacts and develop deficiency reports for these projects. An 
initial assessment showed damages incurred to some of our flood 
risk management project elements, which will require an 
investment in repairs.
    In addition to the repairs and maintenance we conducted on 
these projects, in some cases, the Corps recommends a 
comprehensive assessment of their status to include a review of 
performance criteria and recommendations for updating based on 
current science, recent storm events, and factors such as 
climate change.
    In common with much of the Nation's infrastructure, many of 
our projects require continuing investment and operation and 
maintenance to ensure their effectiveness. The Corps' team is 
committed to working together with our Federal interagency, 
State, and local partners to provide best engineering solutions 
for the tough challenges facing our communities.
    Thank you again for inviting us to speak today. I look 
forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of General Tickner follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Capito. Thank you.
    Next, we will have Colonel Murphy.
    Thank you.

  STATEMENT OF COLONEL STEPHEN MURPHY, COMMANDER, NEW ORLEANS 
             DISTRICT, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS

    Colonel Murphy. Good morning, Ranking Member Capito and 
distinguished members of the Committee. I am Colonel Steve 
Murphy. I am the Commander of the Army Corps of Engineers, New 
Orleans District. On behalf of my team and I, thank you for the 
opportunity to meet with you today and discuss the Corps' 
response to Hurricane Ida in my district area of operation.
    My area of operation encompasses all of south Louisiana, 
from Texas in the west to Mississippi in the east. Day in and 
day out, I focus in large part on coastal and climate change 
issues.
    The Louisiana coast is a working coast, as the State calls 
it, due to the significance of its activities and waterways and 
their benefits to the national economy. These include five of 
the Nation's top busiest ports, the Mississippi River, which is 
the busiest waterway in the Nation, and our economic artery, as 
well as the Gulf Intercoastal Waterway, which is the Nation's 
third busiest waterway, all of which have been and continue to 
be impacted by gulf storms.
    The majority of the State's population also lives in the 
southern half of the State near the coast.
    Coastal Louisiana sits at the epicenter of climate change. 
Sea level rise and subsidence co-exist as threats that are 
major concerns for both the Corps and the State. Consequently, 
my major missions are navigation, coastal and environmental 
restoration, coastal storm risk management, and flood risk 
management. Flooding of any kind, whether from rainfall, storm 
surge, or riverine flooding, or what has been occurring on a 
more frequent basis, the occurrence of all three at the same 
time, is a major concern for the State and for my district.
    The men and women of my district are residents of south 
Louisiana. During a storm, they endure the same impacts as 
their neighbors. For them, working with our partners to ensure 
a promising future in coastal Louisiana is not just a 
professional responsibility, it is a personal commitment.
    During Ida, almost a third of my 1,100 person work force 
evacuated out of State, to include my wife and children. Almost 
all of us lost power, and almost half saw some form of damage 
to their homes, with 37 of us experiencing so much damage from 
Ida that their homes are now unlivable.
    While we couldn't be more proud of the performance of the 
greater New Orleans area's Hurricane Storm Damage Risk 
Reduction System, and how it validated the massive national 
investment of $14.5 billion that you have heard about already, 
other parts of the State were not as fortunate.
    Where there was Federal investment and levees and flood 
walls, though, the systems performed as designed. Hurricane Ida 
has validated and reinforced many of the lessons we have 
learned over the last 16 years since Hurricane Katrina made 
landfall.
    The systems that the Federal Government invested in, and 
especially the HSDRRS, have reinforced the value of the Corps' 
system wide approach and demonstrated the importance of 
sustainability and resilience that the Corps has incorporated 
since then into its designs. We have projects currently 
underway that are now incorporating these principles outside of 
the greater New Orleans area.
    We are now in day 40 of recovery from Hurricane Ida. I will 
close by saying there could not be a better team to handle 
natural disasters and climate change than the team that has 
gathered, Federal, State, and local in Louisiana. Everyone here 
knows disaster response is truly a team sport. I do not think 
we could be working more closely or more cooperatively with the 
State of Louisiana than we are right now.
    After personally experiencing two of the longest Lower 
Mississippi River flood fights in our district's history, the 
most active Atlantic hurricane season in history last year, the 
COVID pandemic, and now Hurricane Ida, I can definitively say 
that this is a highly functional and collaborative team that 
has made the USACE response in support of this State and these 
disasters, and especially Ida, successful.
    That same team spirit and cooperation also drives the Corps 
investigation and implementation of natural and nature based 
solutions that are in sync with the State's 50 year, $50 
billion coastal master plan. These include measures ranging 
from beneficial use of dredged material to coastal restoration 
to environmental mitigation to the consideration through my 
regulatory program of large scale diversions in the Lower 
Mississippi River aimed at restoring the coast and making it 
more resilient.
    I could go on, but out of respect for your time and to 
allow for questions, I will close there. Thank you again for 
the opportunity to be here.
    [The prepared statement of Colonel Murphy follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Capito. Thank you, Colonel.
    We will go to questions, and a belated happy birthday to my 
colleague from Maryland, Senator Cardin.
    Senator Cardin. Well, Senator Capito, thank you very much. 
I only have 364 days remaining until my birthday, so thank you. 
I appreciate that.
    First of all, thank you all very much for your service. We 
really do appreciate the leadership of the Army Corps. It is 
critically important in Maryland; it is critically important to 
all of our States.
    I was in Louisiana, New Orleans, after Katrina. Our 
Committee went down there to inspect first hand the damage that 
was done, and it was shocking to see the amount of loss of life 
and of property. So, the $14.5 billion investment is one that 
we all supported, and it worked, as you all have said. We are 
proud of what we were able to do to mitigate Hurricane Ida.
    We also recognize that these storms are becoming more 
frequent and more severe and that we have a responsibility to 
deal with the realities of climate change, both in mitigating 
future pollutants that are emitting greenhouse gases, as well 
as adapt to the realities. Your responsibilities on adapting to 
the realities, I want to just touch on briefly.
    Many years ago, we made a decision in Maryland to invest in 
beach renourishment, because the Northeasters were becoming 
more and more severe. We invested millions of dollars. The 
result has been billions of dollars of savings, and savings of 
life.
    These types of investments really pay off dramatically, but 
there is also a change in the risk factors that I am seeing in 
our communities. We saw it during Ida. We have had flooding 
before, because of a long sequence of rain, causing banks to 
rise beyond what they can handle, and you have dealt with that 
issue through your flood management programs.
    But in recent years, we have found something different 
occurring, and that is the large volume in a short period of 
time of rainfall. That was true during Ida. So, it wasn't 
really the integrity of the flood system. It was more the 
extreme amount of rain in a very short period of time.
    I mention that because in Ellicott City, Maryland, as you 
all know, we experienced in a 20 month period two 100 year 
floods. But what was really unique about these floods that we 
had never experienced this type of flooding before. Ellicott 
City is on the banks of rivers. We have seen the rivers rise 
and cause flooding into Ellicott City. We had never seen the 
large volume of rain occur in such a short period of time that 
couldn't possibly be managed by the current system.
    So, my question to you is, as we look at these new risk 
factors, more violent storms, not necessarily hurricanes, just 
a large volume of rain coming down in a very short period of 
time that are flooding communities, how do we prepare for this?
    Now, I appreciate, Colonel, your mentioning the beneficial 
use of dredged material. We are doing that in replenishing 
wetlands. That is part of our strategy, because wetlands not 
only manage the flooding situation, but it also manages the 
pollutants going into from runoff, so it is an important part 
of our strategy.
    I am interested as to what your recommendations are to us 
to manage the realities of the current risk factors on violent 
storms occurring with a large amount of rain in a short period 
of time, which is not the way we have traditionally been 
dealing with infrastructure to prevent flooding.
    General Graham. Senator, thank you for that question, and 
let me address that. We have put together, the Administration 
has directed it, a climate action plan. It is right up with CEQ 
right now, and we expect that to be released soon.
    It has five major components to it. I think those address 
your concerns, and those five major components are: We have to 
modernize our approach, and that is our programs and our 
policies, to deal with a different future. We have to manage 
better the facilities we do operate, like the dams around 
Philadelphia that General Tickner mentioned. We have got to 
enable, as Colonel Murphy spoke to, our partners, and a lot of 
that is with sharing our science with them.
    I know some of the Committee staff members went down to 
Duck, North Carolina, and saw some of that science being 
created. We have got to share that information with our local 
partners, and that includes this actionable data that can stand 
up to scrutiny, so folks, local communities, States, realize 
the challenges that they are under.
    Then finally, Senator, we have got to plan and put into 
operation those futures, and this authorizing Committee plays a 
key role in that. Thank you.
    Senator Cardin. I think my time has run out. I just would 
urge us to think about how we can work in partnership to deal 
with these extreme raining events that are causing communities 
to be extremely vulnerable. It is hard to plan for every part 
of our community getting an extreme weather event, but we have 
to have a game plan for our communities, because it is 
occurring. We saw it during Ida; we have seen it several times 
in Maryland.
    It is unprecedented, the type of flood risks that we 
currently have, so we are going to be looking to you and this 
report to give us a game plan on how we can protect communities 
the best that we can from the realities of these storms.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Capito. Yes.
    Senator Inhofe.
    Senator Inhofe. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    I know this hearing is on Ida, but all three of the 
individuals as witnesses here were participants in a real 
tragedy that we faced in 2019, a flooding case in Oklahoma, 
where we had levees that were 75 years old and well, well past 
their normal historic lifetime, and they held up. I can 
remember actually being up to my waist in water during that 
time, and so it was something that we were very fortunate.
    Since that time, we have been on pins and needles what 
might happen if we should get another flood. But nonetheless, 
everyone performed very well, and the WRDA language that we put 
into the 2020 WRDA system performed very well.
    General Graham, as the Corps plans and budgets for future 
projects, do you believe it is important to take into account 
safety of life benefits like you did in the Tulsa Levees 
Chief's Report?
    General Graham. Senator, absolutely.
    Senator Inhofe. Well, I have to say that we really did a 
good job in terms of the private sector. We had to make some 
changes in our current statutes to accommodate that at the 
time, and things did work, and worked out really well. Now, we 
don't have many hurricanes that hit Oklahoma, but what it is 
important to remember is that Oklahoma is as connected as 
Arkansas is to the Mississippi River through the MKARNS. A lot 
of people have a hard time understanding that we in Oklahoma 
are navigable.
    I have probably said this 300 or 400 times in the last few 
years to let people know that we need to be a part of a system 
and participating in that system and have actually done really 
good work in terms of working with the private sector.
    Colonel Murphy, I would have to say this, I am sure--
Senator Boozman and I have spent a lot of time working on the 
impact of the navigation way. Colonel Murphy, is it true that 
getting our navigable waterways open to commerce is key to a 
successful recovery effort, and how does the Corps prioritize 
dredging efforts following flooding in storm surge events?
    Colonel Murphy. Senator, thank you for the question. I 
would say, absolutely. That is one of the first things we are 
looking to do as soon as we can get boats on the road and in 
the water. I have survey boats going out on all the Federal 
waterways that I am responsible for to get surveys in 
conjunction with the Coast Guard to clear them.
    Senator Inhofe. I appreciate that. The 2019 flooding was a 
shock and exposed a lot of gaps in our system, but we are lucky 
in Oklahoma to have numerous private sector entities that we 
had to bend the law a little bit to make it happen.
    So what I would like to ask you to do is to, for the panel, 
for the future, look at the authorities. What authorities does 
the Corps need to enable them to respond as capably as they did 
respond in this case, and this might be something that you can 
do for the record. Get your ideas together as to how can we 
work more efficiently with the private sector, such as we did 
in the State of Oklahoma.
    OK? Very good, thank you.
    Senator Capito. Thank you.
    Senator Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Senator.
    Welcome, all of you. I am glad to have you here. I 
represent Rhode Island in the Senate.
    Up in New England, the most extreme climate related shift 
that we have seen has been in the form of extreme rainfall. It 
is kind of off the charts.
    In terms of a persistent underlying shift related to 
climate, what we see coming is sea level rise. In fact, we are 
going to have to redraw the map of Rhode Island to accommodate 
the loss of seashore and what is now land turning into an 
archipelago of flooded islands.
    Against that backdrop, we experienced dramatic failure of 
FEMA mapping. I have read press reports that, in Texas, FEMA 
mapping was off by as much as 50 percent when floods hit the 
Houston area.
    As a result, Rhode Island has had to do its own mapping, 
going back to the original data and bringing in our own 
scientists.
    As a result, we have got a very, I believe, accurate and 
successful mapping tool called STORMTOOLS that has been run by 
our CRMC agency, the Rhode Island Coastal Resources Management 
Council. It is annoying as hell to fund FEMA and also have the 
State of Rhode Island have to pay for its own mapping because 
FEMA mapping isn't accurate.
    I know FEMA ducked because a lot of the reason for the 
inaccuracy was that they would have to bake in climate change, 
and there are very powerful forces that want to punish anybody 
who talks about climate change.
    So FEMA took a dive on this one, in my view. But the result 
is one that you all have to live with all the time, which is 
bad maps.
    What are you doing to try to make sure that you are 
operating off of good flood maps, and when you have to come in 
with your emergency response, people aren't being clobbered by 
the fact that they didn't know they were in a flood zone, so 
they didn't have proper insurance, so now they are really 
stuck? You are in the middle of all that. What is the view from 
the front?
    General Graham. Senator, thank you for that question. In 
any project that the Corps does, there are two imperatives, 
Senator. We want to make sure that we get the engineering 
right, and that we want to make sure that we are in control of 
the projects and are good stewards of the taxpayer's money.
    So to your comments, to make sure that we understand the 
topography and the hydrology, that is, we agree with you that 
it is absolutely essential, and that is the bedrock that all 
that engineering is founded upon.
    Senator, I will go back and relook based on the information 
you provided to make sure we are, indeed, using the best 
science available.
    Senator Whitehouse. I think, often, predictions related to 
climate change are simply zero factored out, which is just 
simply bad prediction when we know perfectly well what is going 
on here. You see it change, and then you act as if it is just 
going to go straight from here on over, rather than continue 
its trajectory, when there is zero science to support that 
proposition that it is going to go level state. So please take 
a look at that.
    The other thing I want to just flag for this hearing and 
for my colleagues, which I always do, is that, we are talking 
about Ida. Ida hit as a coastal flood. The Army Corps of 
Engineers has something called the Flood and Coastal--Coastal--
Storm Damage Reduction Program.
    In the last decade, it has run between favoring inland over 
coastal flooding by 19 to 1. That was our best year, to be at 
the tail end of a 19 to 1 losing battle, to 120 to 1, $1 for 
coasts for every $120 for inland.
    And the fiscal year 2022 budget has it at 45 to 1, 
somewhere in the middle, $1 for coastal for every $45 for 
inland. And I want to thank the Corps for agreeing to take a 
good, hard look at this and try to understand exactly what the 
heck is going on.
    But when you look at sea level rise, when you look at 
offshore storms, when you look at Ida coming ashore as a 
coastal storm, the idea that you guys have set up your inland, 
your Flood and Coastal Storm Damage Reduction Program in a way 
that so inexplicably favors inland flooding over coastal 
flooding is a matter of real concern to those of us who 
represent coastal States and have huge flooding issues, like 
what STORMTOOLS reveals about Rhode Island.
    We are working on that through another lane, but I just 
didn't want to let this opportunity to go by without raising 
that astounding discrepancy and what it means for my State.
    Thank you; my time is up.
    Senator Capito. Senator Boozman.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you very much and thank you all for 
being here. We really do appreciate your service to our country 
in this capacity, but you have all had outstanding careers and 
have just served in so many different ways.
    I want to associate myself with Senator Inhofe's words 
regarding the MKARNS, the importance of getting back on track, 
the benefit to the economy, all of those kinds of things. He 
truly has been a great champion and great leader in that for 
many, many years, and it really is important, not only to our 
States, but to the economy of the entire country, and really, 
the world.
    Major General Graham, media reports indicate that the cost 
of damage from Hurricane Ida could be as high as $95 billion.
    This compares to $170 billion resulting from Katrina, $131 
billion from Harvey, and $74 billion from Sandy, according to 
estimates by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric 
Administration.
    In your testimony, you discussed how our country invested 
$14.5 billion to reduce flood risk in New Orleans. I like how 
you used the term ``invested'' instead of ``appropriated'' or 
``obligated,'' because infrastructure projects truly are an 
investment, especially ones such as the Hurricane Storm Damage 
Risk Reduction System that did protect New Orleans, which saves 
this country money, and more importantly, saves lives.
    I guess the question is, do you believe the American people 
received a good return on their $14.5 billion investment? If 
so, why?
    General Graham. Senator, thank you for that question. I 
think, certainly, it was a great investment. I was able to go 
visit Colonel Murphy about a week after the storm hit, and I 
was expecting to have to stay out in Mobile or maybe up in 
Baton Rouge.
    But a week after the storm hit, the amazing city of New 
Orleans was back on its feet, and it would not have been back 
on its feet if it wasn't for that $14.5 billion investment.
    Senator Boozman. Very good.
    Colonel Murphy, in your opening statement, you talked about 
the team effort between the Federal, State, and local 
government, tribal and levee boards, to address the issues 
caused by Hurricane Ida. In your opinion, how much does it help 
the Corps when they are able to lean on their non-Federal 
sponsors, and what are the benefits of having local side by 
side with the Federal Government when addressing the aftermath 
of extreme weather events, and I would say, even, not only 
aftermath, but the precursor?
    Colonel Murphy. Senator, I say in short, having a single 
non-Federal sponsor through the State has been invaluable. Just 
during the storm, I was talking to the Governor directly via 
phone call and text; I was talking to Chairman Kline with the 
State's Coastal Protection and Restoration Authority, and I 
push out what we call LGLs, Local Government Liaisons, but 
Corps employees directly to the parish and levee district 
emergency operation centers.
    That communication that that has facilitated really has 
created a--we like to say, a one door to the Corps approach, 
whereby questions, concerns, friction is immediately 
identified, and we can solve problems.
    So it helps quicken our response, and I would attribute, 
really, a lot of the communication that exists right now to why 
we have been successful to date.
    Senator Boozman. Colonel, what other Corps constructed 
Flood and Storm Damage Reduction projects within the New 
Orleans District, apart from Hurricane and Storm Damage Risk 
Reduction System, were impacted by Hurricane Ida, and what is 
your assessment of their performance?
    I had the opportunity to be down there in Congressman 
Scalise's district, which butts up to New Orleans, and after 
Katrina, and I know that there was tremendous impact there, 
sometimes we leave those areas out because of the focus, you 
know, on the bigger centers, but tell us what else was 
impacted.
    Colonel Murphy. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Boozman. Assessment of their performance.
    Colonel Murphy. Like I said during my opening remarks, any 
Federal system performed as designed. We didn't see any major 
overtopping, and certainly not on the hurricane storm damage.
    Outside of that, though, we have over $1 billion in DB 18 
supplemental projects that we didn't see any major impacts on.
    Sadly enough for the West Shore Lake Pontchartrain Project, 
unfortunately, that was not in place. The good news is, we are 
actually moving forward. We have let contracts; we just let the 
first contract on that. That will reduce risk to La Place, 
which was one of the most heavily impacted areas to the storm, 
and with those contracts in place, really, the majority of them 
this coming year and 2022, we will be well on our way to 
completing that project.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. You have got a good story to 
tell. That is great, thank you.
    Senator Carper [presiding]. Senator Capito.
    Senator Capito. Thank you, and thank you all for being 
here.
    After I question, and the Chairman has given me this time, 
I have to go to another 11 o'clock meeting, so I want to thank 
you.
    So, I am going to start with you, Colonel Murphy, on a 
quiz. You said, navigation routes, the busiest is the 
Mississippi; the third is the inland waterway. What is the one 
in the middle?
    Colonel Murphy. Senator, it is the Ohio River.
    Senator Capito. I was hoping you would say that.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Capito. It just happens to run right along the 
western border of my State.
    Major General Graham, thank you. This is the second time we 
have gotten to work together, so this is great. I am going to 
say something that we talked about, pre-disaster mitigation and 
how important that is. It is interesting to hear my colleagues 
talk about these flash rains that just sort of sit, and that 
was our last flood in 2016, was very devastating, as you know.
    But what we hear from our local partners sometimes, and 
even FEMA in some sense, and I am not laying blame here, is 
that sometimes, the processes to get help are so doggone 
complicated. So you have got an opportunity through the climate 
program that you said you wrote that has five different aspects 
to it to, I think, really streamline some of these.
    If I look at my cities and towns and counties, they don't 
have flood disaster experts. They have somebody that is tasked 
with that, but they are also tasked with traffic or some 
other--trash pickup, or some other functions, because they are 
spread pretty thin. You all have all that expertise, and I 
think, as much as you can streamline those processes in working 
with your local partners, certainly in New Orleans, they have a 
lot of experience with it.
    But what we found was it was just chaos, but managed chaos. 
But I think we could have done better with it and recovered 
quicker, had we had a little bit more hand holding and 
simplistic way to react to some of those.
    I want to ask you, just put that on your radar screen, we 
have just appropriated $5.7 billion in supplemental 
appropriations in the continuing resolution. I was wondering, 
your process and timeline for expending these funds, if you 
have any ideas on that.
    Also, will you make sure that that information regarding 
this funding, when we make requests for information, that that 
comes in a timely fashion?
    General Graham. Ranking Member Capito, in terms of 
transparency with--to respond to the Committee's request, 
absolutely. We will be absolutely committed to being responsive 
on those.
    To the timeline on getting those $5.71 billion that we just 
received at work for the American people, we are working on 
that right now. We are looking at the investigation projects, 
the construction projects, certainly we are looking at the 
Mississippi River projects, and the O&M work that we have got. 
Our goal is to, as with any of the disaster supplementals, is 
to get that work delivered as fast as we possibly can.
    Senator Capito. What is the timeline stretch on that, on 
those dollars? Do you know?
    General Graham. Ma'am, I don't know. I will get that answer 
back to your team.
    Senator Capito. OK, thank you.
    General Tickner, I think we were all astounded when we saw 
the video of the post of, well, it wasn't the post, it was 
Hurricane Ida flooding the subways in New York City. I think it 
was something we hadn't ever really anticipated.
    What do you attribute that to? Was there something, again, 
here that pre-disaster could have been better performed to be 
able to mitigate that?
    Because we saw, obviously, as the Colonel said, the pre-
disaster that we did in response to Katrina actually prevented 
a lot more damage in Ida. So, what do you see in the Northeast 
in terms of very unlikely places to see pictures like that?
    General Tickner. Ranking Member Capito, I appreciate that 
question. And as an engineer, we all watched what happened in 
New York City. We don't really have a project there that takes 
care of that.
    But what happened was a large amount of rain fell in a very 
short period of time, record levels, and their stormwater 
system, the drains, couldn't handle it.
    So the roads turned into rivers, and water went to the 
lowest point, many of which was a basement.
    There were a lot of rescues that happened in the basements.
    Then there were also folks trying to drive through those, 
that stormwater, which, once you get out of your vehicle, you 
are now fighting the water, and the power of the water, it will 
overtake anybody.
    So, regretfully, New York City had 18 deaths. New Jersey 
had even more with 30, I believe.
    So, from talking to my counterparts at the State level, 
from a pure flash flood, when we are not putting in a project, 
it is about education and letting people know that this risk is 
out there. Don't go into the water. Regretfully, some people 
lived in the basements, and hopefully, that problem is being 
corrected, where they have a way out.
    Senator Capito. Well, I would say that the bill that we 
passed, the Safe Drinking Water and Wastewater, and then as was 
incorporated into the BIF, in terms of trying to manage or 
trying to modernize some of these old storm systems, I don't 
know how old New York City's storm system is, but I would 
imagine it is in excess, probably, of 100 years. Certainly, we 
have systems that old in our State, and then to try to manage 
that.
    So, this is where I think if we do on the front end, what 
we know to have fallacies on the back end, we are going to end 
up saving money, saving lives, saving property.
    But we have got to make these processes for communities and 
States to access these dollars so they actually feel like they 
can work with you and work with other local partners, FEMA and 
whoever, to be able to get these projects up and running.
    So thank you all very much, and I appreciate all of your 
good hard work. Thank you.
    Senator Carper. Senator Capito, thanks so much, and thanks 
for keeping the trains on time while I was trying to wear two 
hats at once.
    No, the Army is always on time. It is the Navy we worry 
about, right? I say that as a retired Navy captain. I like to 
say, different uniforms, same team. There we go; how is that?
    Colonel Murphy, let me just say, this could be for anybody, 
but in terms of what we witnessed in greater New York, the 
subways flooding and that sort of thing, my sense is that with 
climate change, we are seeing more intense rain. In some cases, 
we are seeing storms hunker down and sit on an area for a 
while, and just create a lot of flooding. Is that a fair 
characterization or not, anybody?
    General Graham. Chairman, I believe it is, that that is a 
fair characterization, and in that massive rainfall events that 
we weren't expecting is, I think, what caught a lot of people 
by surprise. We saw the tragedies in western Tennessee with 
some of the mountain flooding, and the valleys, where we 
tragically lost some lives this year.
    If you would ask somebody in New York City, do you think 
that could happen here? I am going to guess that they probably 
said it couldn't.
    So I think education on this coming out of this is probably 
our best defense.
    Senator Carper. Yes.
    General, anyone else want to comment? I know that you 
weren't trained, I wasn't either, in weather-ology or 
meteorology.
    General Tickner. I will just mention a little bit, maybe 
beyond New York City, where we have done, we have started to 
build over the last 100 years in the flood plains. That is 
something that I know our State partners are very concerned 
with because they don't want just to do projects; they would 
like to do natural and nature based features and non-
structural, which could be moving people out of the flood plain 
that exists today.
    Senator Carper. All right, thank you.
    I want to put a human face on it, so when Hurricane Ida 
came up the East Coast, it spun some tornadoes. One of those 
tornadoes ripped through nearly just on the other side of the 
Delaware Memorial Bridge.
    It struck a family farm, a number of them, but also the 
family farm of Katie Grasso. We know her; she is my 
communications director in Delaware, lives in New Jersey. Her 
family farm, their family farm was destroyed, houses, 
buildings, equipment.
    So, that is a human face. People that we know, and there 
are a lot of other folks that are suffering, were suffering, 
are suffering today, still, as a result of all of this, but 
Hurricane Ida was the first big test of the new Hurricane Storm 
Risk Reduction System.
    By most accounts, maybe by all accounts, it was given an A. 
I didn't get a whole lot of As when I was in school, but that 
is very encouraging to hear. I got a few. This system, however, 
is only part of the picture. It doesn't function without 
tireless communication and collaboration with other critical 
players.
    My question is for you, Colonel, please. Please tell us 
about the differences between the Corps' response to Hurricane 
Katrina and Rita and the response to Hurricane Ida. What were 
the biggest changes and lessons learned from previous storms 
that you put into use in responding to Hurricane Ida?
    Colonel Murphy. Thank you, Chairman. I could probably spend 
30 minutes, but I won't.
    I would tell you a big difference is the systems approach 
that the Corps now uses. Before Katrina, it was the Hurricane 
Protection System, and it was a system in name only. It allowed 
water into the city via canals, and it was incrementally 
funded. So I would say a huge change is the Corps approached it 
as a system, which I think has application to what this 
Committee is interested in is, how do we get after coastal 
resilience, how do we get after flooding, is looking at things 
as a system.
    So, that full Federal funding, key lesson learned, allowed 
the Corps to move forward. All the talents and the technology 
that the Corps had, we see today in the system. It allows 
decisions to be made that are not funding based, but they are 
risk based, and you see that in what performed right during 
Ida.
    I would say we had a willing Federal partner, a single 
Federal partner, that did not exist between Katrina.
    And now with the State, I work with the Coastal Protection 
and Restoration Agency, and they work with the levee districts. 
The communication is back and forth.
    But I have a single State sponsor who is responsible for 
working real estate issues, who I work with on payback, all the 
kinds of issues.
    Then really third, I would say, another key enabler was the 
alternative environmental arrangements. There is no way to 
build the kind of infrastructure you need without having some 
kind of an environmental alternative arrangements to allow you 
to move quickly. Now, we still met those environmental 
requirements, but what really Congress allowed working with CEQ 
after Katrina, we were able to move forward very quickly.
    Senator Carper. You didn't need the 30 minutes, but you 
have 27 more minutes. We will just put that in the bank, OK?
    I am going to turn next to General Graham for a quick 
question pertaining to climate change and project design. As I 
mentioned earlier, the intensity, the frequency, the duration 
of storms has increased significantly, and as climate continues 
to warm, as our climate continues to warm, hurricane intensity 
and rainfall are only projected to increase as we continue to 
experience the impacts of climate change. The way in which we 
approach risk reduction must take these factors into account.
    My question is, and I will ask you to be fairly brief on 
this because I want to recognize Senator Kelly shortly, but 
does the Corps currently account for climate change in its 
design process for flood risk management projects?
    General Graham. Sir, it does, absolutely. I will give you a 
very quick example. We are working on a project. It is on 
Highway 1, which goes down to the Florida Keys in Monroe 
County, the southern tip of Florida.
    We have formulated that project, we designed that project, 
for the high sea level curve, because one of the aspects is 
raising Highway 1, the only road in and out.
    So, we went and had the authority to use the higher sea 
level curve, and that is what we are using for this project.
    Senator Carper. All right, good.
    I have a follow up question for the entire panel. I am 
going to yield to Senator Kelly. He is a man on a mission, so 
he can ask his questions and head on to his next assignment.
    Senator Kelly. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you 
for all the witnesses today for being here.
    General Graham, this question is for you, on emergency 
preparedness in Arizona. You have spoken both in your testimony 
about the lessons that the Army Corps of Engineers learned from 
Hurricane Katrina and how those lessons informed the Corps' 
response to Hurricane Ida.
    But of course, the goal of emergency preparedness should be 
to be ready to respond to any catastrophe the first time. With 
a changing climate affecting all aspects of the country 
differently, preparing for the worst case scenarios everywhere 
is even more important. That is why I was pleased to see that 
the Los Angeles District partnered with the Arizona Department 
of Emergency and Military Affairs in early September to host an 
emergency exercise to plan for a scenario where above average 
rainfall in Arizona causes the Corps' Painted Rock Dam near 
Gila Bend to fail and risk significant downstream flooding.
    So, General, can you describe the value that tabletop 
exercises like the one hosted in Arizona can provide to the 
Corps as you prepare for the worst case scenarios? What value 
do exercises like these provide for the Corps as you work to 
respond to the real world damages, like those cause by 
Hurricane Ida?
    General Graham. Senator Kelly, I certainly thank you for 
that question. We were all watching the monsoon season, very, 
very wet monsoon season down in New Mexico and Arizona closely. 
So, those exercises that our South Pacific Division did in the 
Albuquerque District were absolutely key to making sure that 
the partnership that Colonel Murphy spoke to that works so well 
within the State of Louisiana, that we build that connective 
tissue within our State partners in Arizona. It is the ``make a 
friend before you need a friend,'' and it is really all about 
trust.
    In the middle of a disaster, if you haven't established 
that trust beforehand, you have got a storm, norm, and perform 
during the hurricane or the storm, and we don't want to do 
that. So it is absolutely key, those exercises are, to building 
trust in that whole of government team.
    Senator Kelly. Yes, I mean, it just reminds me of not only 
flying the space shuttle simulator, but at times, we also do 
tabletop a lot of different scenarios that often are rather 
complex.
    In Arizona right now, as you know, we have had the worst 
drought in our country's history, in Arizona's history. I have 
a subcommittee hearing on this specific issue later today to 
discuss what do we do here going forward to mitigate for this 
drought.
    Because of climate issues we are facing, we have had one of 
our worst wildfire seasons. As you know, after the fire, if it 
rains, comes the flooding. We have been dealing with that, so I 
appreciate you doing this.
    I have got another question about Corps benefit-cost ratio, 
General. As you know, the Corps makes most construction and 
investigation investments based on a project's benefit to cost 
ratio as a way to measure the value of the project, what value 
that project will provide to the surrounding community, 
including preventing a worst case scenario during a disaster.
    I, like many folks, Senators, on this Committee, support 
efforts to ensure that a project's benefit to cost ratio 
reflects not just the monetary value of property damage, but 
the risks to life and health of those affected by a potential 
Corps project. So, General, when you look across the country, 
do you believe the Corps does a good job at prioritizing 
investments in the construction and investigation projects, 
which are most likely to prevent future disasters?
    General Graham. Senator Kelly, thank you for that question. 
On anything we do, there is always room for improvement. For 
the benefits that you spoke of, we often evaluate a project 
primarily on its national economic development benefits. We are 
working now to incorporate three other benefits, and those are 
the regional economic benefits, the societal effects, and the 
environmental benefit, as well. So, those include the life, 
health, safety that you just spoke to, so we are going to make 
sure that we are including all of those when we design our 
studies.
    Senator Kelly. Well, thank you General Graham, and thank 
you to all of you for being here today. And I yield back 18 
seconds.
    Senator Carper. We appreciate each one of those 18 seconds. 
Senator Kelly, thanks. I know you had a full plate this 
morning; thanks for making time to come by and participate.
    Before I recognized Senator Kelly, I was talking to General 
Graham about climate change and project design, and I has 
asked, does the Corps currently account for climate change in 
its design process for flood risk management projects. You were 
good enough to answer that.
    I want to do a follow up to that question for the rest of 
the panel, if I could. That would be, how does the Corps adapt 
its design processes with the rapid advances in science and our 
increased understanding of the interconnectivity of these 
systems, keeping in mind the increased frequency and intensity 
of climate related impacts into our future?
    Tom Tickner, would you like to take a shot at that, then 
Colonel, and then we will come back to General Graham?
    General Tickner. Chairman Carper, thanks for the question. 
We have lots of projects on the Northeast that we are studying. 
We do take the current science, the existing engineering that 
is out there that is really not changing.
    But the science and the new data that is coming in with 
climate change is adjusting our projects. You see that on the 
coastal projects that we have in Delaware and New Jersey and 
Maryland with the dune systems that we have.
    But it also is going on to all our flood risk management 
projects as we look at the potential amount of water that has 
got to pass through safely, past urban areas, and to where we 
are going to let it expand or go out to sea.
    Senator Carper. All right.
    Colonel Murphy, anything you want to add to this?
    Colonel Murphy. I would say, down in the Mississippi, 
Chairman, I would say down in the Mississippi Valley Division, 
which is my higher headquarters, we have the Engineer Research 
and Development Center, which is Corps of Engineers, and for a 
lot of our issues, we are working closely with them to get--
they are our lead for science, technology.
    I can tell you, just on studies on the Lower Mississippi 
River, we are incorporating the best science and data that they 
have helped to provide us.
    Senator Carper. All right, thank you. General Graham, 
anything else you want to add before we turn the page?
    General Graham. Just to reemphasize that, the research and 
development aspects of this, which is, we know the world is 
changing, and to make sure that we are on a solid foundation of 
science is absolutely critical.
    Senator Carper. All right, thank you. We will be guided by 
science, not blinded by science. That is good.
    General Tickner, if I could, another question for you 
regarding flooding impacts in urban areas, not unlike what we 
saw in the Greater Wilmington, Delaware, area when this 
hurricane came through. General Tickner, your command covers, 
as we know, the North Atlantic Region, which includes some of 
the most densely populated areas in our Nation. While Ida had 
significantly weakened by the time it made its way up the East 
Coast, it nevertheless produced devastating impacts throughout 
our region, including in my home State of Delaware.
    Could you just describe for us briefly some of the specific 
challenges that the Corps faces in conducting flood response in 
urban environments, and how did you overcome them, and how 
might we better overcome them in the future?
    General Tickner. Chairman Carper, thank you for the 
question. It is a shared response. We are working very closely 
with all the States, definitely Delaware, but through all the 
States in the Northeast.
    It is a combination of structural things that the Corps of 
Engineers would come up with, non-structural, moving folks out 
of the flood plain. It is allowing the water to expand into 
certain areas, like parks or other environmental habitats. It 
is other educational tools to allow people to know what could 
happen in their area, river gauges and installing more of them, 
which goes right to the early warning systems.
    One of the successes that I have heard from the States was, 
they were able to warn their citizens through the automated 
systems that were out there. They knew flash flooding was 
happening because of the river gauges, and so it is a 
partnership and a shared responsibility.
    Senator Carper. All right, thank you.
    General Graham, a different question, if I might, one that 
deals with environmental justice communities; there is a lot of 
them in my State and around the country. General Graham, 
despite the recent supplemental bills that have provided a 
significant increase in Federal investments for critical 
infrastructure, the impact of storms like Ida will always 
disproportionately affect those who may not have the means to 
evacuate in a timely manner, especially those in economically 
disadvantaged communities with large environmental justice 
populations. Rather than mitigating the damage from these 
storms on the back end, it is imperative that we invest up 
front to protect those communities that need the most help.
    My question would be, would you just discuss with us for a 
bit how the Corps is specifically helping these communities 
from future storms or natural disasters?
    General Graham. Chairman Carper, thank you for that 
question. The guidance we received from President Biden is 
absolutely clear, to focus the Federal investments on 
environmental justice.
    One of the areas, and I will focus up in the Northeast, 
would be the back bays. We have put coastal storm risk 
management systems, the berm and dune systems that you are 
familiar with, on the parts of the coast facing the oceans. A 
lot of the flooding also happens around the back bays, and 
oftentimes, the folks that live back there aren't as well off. 
There is a great deal of environmental justice concerns back 
there. So we are formulating a bunch of those projects.
    Certainly, General Tickner is right now, and those will 
soon be, some of them have already been in front of this 
Committee, and some of the larger ones will soon be there. I 
think that is one aspect of how we are getting at that.
    Senator Carper. All right, thank you.
    I have more questions I would like to ask, but I am needed 
back at the Homeland Security and Government Affairs markup 
business meeting, so they are saving you from any further 
damage I might inflict. Actually, I have not inflicted, and you 
have been very forthright and clear minded in your responses.
    I just want to give a brief closing statement here, and 
then you can look for a couple more questions for the record 
that I would like to have asked, and you will receive those 
shortly.
    Before we adjourn, a little bit of housekeeping. I would 
like to ask unanimous consent to submit for the record a 
variety of materials that include letters from stakeholders and 
other materials that relate to today's hearing, and asking 
unanimous consent while I am the only one in the room, that is 
a pretty easy thing to do, so no objection.
    [The referenced information was not received at time of 
print.]
    Senator Carper. Additionally, Senators will be allowed to 
submit questions for the record through close of business of 
Wednesday, October 20th. We will compile those questions; we 
will send them to our witnesses. We ask that you provide a 
reply to us by Wednesday, November the 3rd.
    In closing, I just want to thank our witnesses for your 
testimony today. I really want to thank you for your continued 
service to our Nation. As one who spent a few years in uniform 
myself, I have huge respect for the work that you and the men 
and women you lead do for our Nation.
    I know of so many of your teams, both serving in the 
military work around the clock to help Americans who are 
suffering in the wake of these disasters. We are grateful for 
your work. I want to make sure the Corps is equipped with the 
resources it needs to carry out your missions and fortify 
communities amidst a worsening climate crisis.
    I don't have any other unanimous consent requests, do I? 
No?
    With that, we are dismissed.
    Thank you again so much. Great to see you all.
    [Whereupon, at 11:20 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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