[Senate Hearing 117-232]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                    S. Hrg. 117-232

  NOMINATIONS OF THE HONORABLE SHALANDA D. YOUNG, OF LOUISIANA, TO BE 
DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET AND THE HONORABLE NANI 
  A. COLORETTI, OF CALIFORNIA, TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF 
                         MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                        COMMITTEE ON THE BUDGET

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               ----------                              

February 1, 2022--HEARING ON THE NOMINATIONS OF THE HONORABLE SHALANDA 
D. YOUNG, OF LOUISIANA, TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND 
BUDGET AND THE HONORABLE NANI A. COLORETTI, OF CALIFORNIA, TO BE DEPUTY 
            DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET

     February 9, 2022--EXECUTIVE BUSINESS MEETING TO CONSIDER THE 
  NOMINATIONS OF THE HONORABLE SHALANDA D. YOUNG, OF LOUISIANA, TO BE 
DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET AND THE HONORABLE NANI 
  A. COLORETTI, OF CALIFORNIA, TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF 
                         MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET


             Printed for use of the Senate Budget Committee
             

  NOMINATIONS OF THE HONORABLE SHALANDA D. YOUNG, OF LOUISIANA, TO BE 
DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET AND THE HONORABLE NANI 
  A. COLORETTI, OF CALIFORNIA, TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF 
                         MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET



                                                        S. Hrg. 117-232

  NOMINATIONS OF THE HONORABLE SHALANDA D. YOUNG, OF LOUISIANA, TO BE 
DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET AND THE HONORABLE NANI 
  A. COLORETTI, OF CALIFORNIA, TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF 
                         MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                        COMMITTEE ON THE BUDGET

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

February 1, 2022--HEARING ON THE NOMINATIONS OF THE HONORABLE SHALANDA 
D. YOUNG, OF LOUISIANA, TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND 
BUDGET AND THE HONORABLE NANI A. COLORETTI, OF CALIFORNIA, TO BE DEPUTY 
            DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET

     February 9, 2022--EXECUTIVE BUSINESS MEETING TO CONSIDER THE 
  NOMINATIONS OF THE HONORABLE SHALANDA D. YOUNG, OF LOUISIANA, TO BE 
DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET AND THE HONORABLE NANI 
  A. COLORETTI, OF CALIFORNIA, TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF 
                         MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET
                         
                         
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT

             Printed for use of the Senate Budget Committee
             
                               __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
46-924 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022                     
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------   
             
                        COMMITTEE ON THE BUDGET

                   BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont, Chairman
PATTY MURRAY, Washington             LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
RON WYDEN, Oregon                    CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            MIKE CRAPO, Idaho
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     PATRICK TOOMEY, Pennsylvania
MARK R. WARNER, Virginia             RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
TIM KAINE, Virginia                  RICK SCOTT, Florida
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland           BEN SASSE, Nebraska
BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico            MITT ROMNEY, Utah
ALEX PADILLA, California             JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
                                     KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
                Warren Gunnels, Majority Staff Director
                 Nick Myers, Republican Staff Director
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                                HEARING

                                                                   Page
February 1, 2022--Hearing on the Nominations of the Honorable 
  Shalanda D. Young, of Louisiana, to be Director of the Office 
  of Management and Budget (OMB) and the Honorable Nani A. 
  Coloretti, of California, to be Deputy Director of the Office 
  of Management and Budget (OMB).................................     1

                OPENING STATEMENTS BY COMMITTEE MEMBERS

Chairman Bernard Sanders.........................................     1
Ranking Member Lindsey O. Graham.................................     2

                               WITNESSES

Statement of the Honorable Kevin Cramer, U.S. Senator from the 
  State of North Dakota..........................................     3
Statement of the Honorable Patty Murray, U.S. Senator from the 
  State of Washington............................................     6
Testimony of the Honorable Shalanda D. Young, of Louisiana, to be 
  Director, Office of Management and Budget (OMB)................     7
    Prepared Statement of........................................    32
Statement of the Honorable Alex Padilla, U.S. Senator from the 
  State of California............................................     5
Testimony of the Honorable Nani A. Coloretti, of California, to 
  be Deputy Director, Office of Management and Budget (OMB)......     8
    Prepared Statement of........................................    83

                   MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Statement of Biographical and Financial Information Requested of 
  Presidential Nominee Shalanda D. Young To Be Director of the 
  Office of Management and Budget (OMB)..........................    34
Pre-Hearing Questions from Chairman Bernard Sanders with Answers 
  by the Honorable Shalanda D. Young.............................    44
Pre-Hearing Questions from Senator John Kennedy with Answers by 
  the Honorable Shalanda D. Young................................    43
Post-Hearing Questions from Budget Committee Members with Answers 
  by the Honorable Shalanda D. Young.............................    49
    Senator Mike Braun...........................................    52
    Senator Kevin Cramer.........................................    55
    Senator Mike Crapo...........................................    61
    Senator Lindsey O. Graham....................................    64
    Senator Tim Kaine............................................    66
    Senator Bernard Sanders......................................    67
    Senator Rick Scott...........................................    69
    Senator Patrick Toomey.......................................    70
    Senator Chris Van Hollen.....................................    71
    Senator Mark R. Warner.......................................    74
    Senator Sheldon Whitehouse...................................    75
    Senator Ron Wyden............................................    80
Statement of Biographical and Financial Information Requested of 
  Presidential Nominee Nani A. Coloretti To Be Deputy Director of 
  the Office of Management and Budget (OMB)......................    85
Pre-Hearing Questions from Chairman Bernard Sanders with Answers 
  by the Honorable Nani A. Coloretti.............................    94
Post-Hearing Questions from Budget Committee Members with Answers 
  by the Honorable Nani A. Coloretti:............................    99
    Senator Mike Crapo...........................................   101
    Senator Patrick Toomey.......................................   102
    Senator Sheldon Whitehouse...................................   103
    Senator Ron Wyden............................................   108

                       EXECUTIVE BUSINESS MEETING

February 9, 2022--Executive Business Meeting to Consider the 
  Nominations of the Honorable Shalanda D. Young, of Louisiana, 
  to be Director of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) and 
  the Honorable Nani A. Coloretti, of California, to be Deputy 
  Director of the Office of Management and Budget................   111
Committee Votes..................................................   111

 
   HEARING ON THE NOMINATIONS OF THE HONORABLE SHALANDA D. YOUNG, OF 
 LOUISIANA, TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET AND 
 THE HONORABLE NANI A. COLORETTI, OF CALIFORNIA, TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR 
                 OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET

                              ----------                              


                       TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 2022

                              United States Senate,
                                   Committee on the Budget,
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:37 p.m., via 
Webex and in Room SH-216, Hart Senate Office Building, Hon. 
Bernard Sanders, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Sanders, Murray, Stabenow, Whitehouse, 
Merkley, Kaine, Van Hollen, Padilla, Graham, Grassley, Crapo, 
Toomey, Braun, Scott, Romney, and Cramer.
    Staff Present: Warren Gunnels, Majority Staff Director; and 
Nick Myers, Republican Staff Director.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN SANDERS

    Chairman Sanders. All right. Okay. Apologies for being 
late, and let me thank those of you who are here for being 
here.
    This afternoon we will be hearing from Ms. Shalanda Young 
and Ms. Nani Coloretti, who have been nominated by President 
Biden to serve as the Director and Deputy Director, 
respectively, of The Office of Management and Budget (OMB). And 
I want to thank both Ms. Young and Ms. Coloretti for appearing 
before us today, and thank you both for your many years of 
public service. And thank you to your friends and family 
members who you have brought with you today.
    As we all know, the OMB is responsible for preparing the 
President's budget, reviewing Federal regulations, and 
providing the proper oversight of Federal agencies. It is a 
very, very important task, and I know that both of you are more 
than capable of leading OMB.
    Since last March, Ms. Young has been serving as Acting 
Director of OMB, so she is already doing the job for which she 
is nominated. So she has some real-life experience behind her 
as we discuss her application today.
    Prior to her start at OMB, Ms. Young served for 14 years as 
a top staffer on the House Appropriations Committee, where, by 
all accounts, she did an excellent job working with Democrats 
and Republicans on legislation that must be passed each and 
every year that impacts the lives of every American.
    Ms. Coloretti has more than two decades of experience in 
public service. She previously served as Deputy Secretary of 
the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development and 
several positions at the U.S. Treasury Department, where, among 
other duties, she helped stand up the Consumer Financial 
Protection Bureau. Prior to that she was the Policy Director 
and later Budget Director for the Mayor's Office in San 
Francisco.
    Again, the Senate has previously confirmed both of these 
nominees to high-ranking positions in the past on strong 
bipartisan votes, and I hope and expect we will do so again in 
short order.
    This is our first Budget Committee hearing of 2022, and we 
are facing many challenges as a nation, as I think everybody 
knows, and certainly challenges that our nominees are familiar 
with. We have now entered year three of the pandemic, as 
thousands of Americans continue to die from COVID every single 
day and hospitals continue to be overwhelmed with patients.
    In my view, we are moving toward an oligarchic form of 
society where the people on top have incredible wealth and 
power while most Americans are struggling to pay their bills. 
We have a dysfunctional health care system which costs us more 
than any other country, and yet we have over 90 million people 
who are uninsured or underinsured, and we pay the highest 
prices in the world for our prescription drugs. And among other 
things, climate change is an existential threat to the 
existence of the planet. Other than that, not much.
    Bottom line, I think we can all agree, although our 
solutions may be different, this country faces enormous 
problems.
    So with that I would say that I have been impressed by the 
work that Ms. Young has done and look forward to supporting 
her. And now let me give the gavel over to Senator Graham.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR GRAHAM

    Senator Graham. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. To both 
of our nominees, congratulations. Ms. Young, you are well known 
to the Committee, particularly those of us on Appropriations, 
and I have always enjoyed working with you. Ms. Coloretti--is 
that right, Ms. Coloretti?
    Ms. Coloretti. Coloretti.
    Senator Graham. Coloretti.
    Ms. Coloretti. Yeah.
    Senator Graham. So I think you are both well qualified. You 
might talk me out of voting for you, but I doubt it.
    But I do want to talk about a few things that I think are 
important to your jobs. Number one, climate change is real and 
I would like to do something about it, but there are a lot of 
threats out there. This is a chart of just some of the problem 
areas of the world. If you are Israel, Iran is definitely an 
existential threat to you. They want to kill all the Jews. I do 
not know why they want to do that, but that is what they keep 
talking about. And I think they would if they could. But it is 
not just the Jewish state. They would go after a lot of folks 
in the Muslim faith to purify the faith and make it in their 
own image of their formal radial Shi'ism, and they would kill 
all of us because we do not agree with them religiously.
    So I just want to highlight, in this chart behind me, North 
Korea, China, Russia, Ukraine, the rise of ISIS back in Syria, 
the debacle in Afghanistan. I do not think I ever remember a 
time this dangerous, maybe since the 1930s.
    So from our point of view, we believe that President 
Biden's 2022 defense budget called for 1.6 percent increase in 
spending--that is well below inflation--with almost a 16 
percent, I think, increase in non-defense spending. Now those 
priorities are just out of sync with the world as we know it.
    The number one job of the Federal Government, to me, is to 
defend our nation, and the Biden budget has defense spending 
below inflation, well below inflation. And the National Defense 
Strategy Commission, a nonpartisan commission of defense 
experts, unanimously agreed that in order to deter China and 
Russia that the United States would need to increase defense 
spending by 35 percent in real growth. That would be above 
inflation. And failing to increase would make it necessary to 
alter the expectations of the U.S. defense strategy and our 
global strategic objectives, which is, I think, a bad idea.
    So the budget, if adopted, would put us at 2.5 percent of 
GDP on national security, which is in the historically low 
arena.
    So we are negotiating, Democrats and Republicans, about 
trying to use the appropriations process, not the continuing 
resolution process, to fund the government. I think people on 
our side are going to be very insistent that the defense number 
meet the reality that we face, as a world and as a nation.
    So having said that, your job at OMB will be to kind of 
ride herd over the regulatory side of government, will be to 
advise the President and run the office, and I think you are 
both very capable people. Whatever differences we have, you 
know, will be honestly held, and I just want to use my time, 
Mr. Chairman, to focus on trying to get us, as a body, working 
with the Administration to top-line numbers for budget 
purposes, to appropriate rather than a continuing resolution, 
that is just a terrible way to run the Department of Defense. 
And I hope that the two ladies in front of us, if they get 
these jobs, can help us in that process.
    So with that I will yield back.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you very much.
    Is Senator Murray available for an introduction for Ms. 
Young?
    Okay. If not, Senator Cramer, do you want to introduce Ms. 
Young?

   STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE KEVIN CRAMER, A UNITED STATES 
             SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA

    Senator Cramer. Well, I would be honored to. I hope I am 
not stepping on Senator Murray's toes by going ahead of her, 
but what the heck. Senator Kennedy is not even here and he is 
from Louisiana, and I am from little old North Dakota. But I 
think it speaks volumes to what relationship means. It is not 
geographic. It is relationship.
    And I want to say, first of all, Mr. Chairman, you did an 
excellent job with Ms. Young's credentials. You did not mention 
that she is a new mom, which is probably the greatest 
credential of all time, and congratulations on that.
    I just want to add a couple of insights, having worked with 
Director Young in this last year. As you pointed out, she has 
been confirmed to be the Deputy but has served as the Acting 
Director. And that, in and of itself, is challenging enough, 
but on top of that, of course, we have this other thing going 
on, this pandemic, and all these other issues, workforce 
scattered about, working as best they can remotely. All big 
challenges, and she has met them all.
    I have found Shalanda to be smart, extremely witty. In 
fact, I would suspect, in a witty-off, you would beat the 
Ranking Member, I am pretty sure. But hopefully he will still 
vote for you.
    She is classy, and here is what I love as much as anything. 
Mr. Chairman, you talked about her role as a staff lead in the 
House, in the Appropriations Committee, and that is where I 
first, of course, learned about her good work.
    What has impressed me so much and what I have seen in 
practice as well as in words is that she has not just an 
understanding of the legislative process but a real respect for 
the institution. And that means a lot. That makes all of us 
better at our jobs, including the folks at OMB.
    I can tell you, from first-hand experience, that in my now 
10 years, roughly, in Congress, I have never worked with a 
budget director that was as attentive, that was as 
understanding, that could drill down as deeply on specific 
issues, and actually took the time to do it, as Director Young 
has. We have a couple of major water infrastructure projects in 
North Dakota that have been authorized many times but never 
really dealt with appropriately by OMB, and they have now, and 
I thank you for that.
    She immediately responded to our concerns about 
metropolitan statistical area definitions, something that, you 
know, when you come from a small state with small cities, 
really matters. Even on manufacturing regulations, when we had 
a question or concern that was raised, her and her staff got 
right on it.
    And I do not know that you could ask for anything more or 
anything better from somebody who directs an agency as large 
and as important as OMB. And for those reasons and a whole 
bunch of others I am, first of all, greatly touched and honored 
that you would ask me to introduce you, Shalanda, and it is my 
great pleasure to do that.
    And, Senator Graham, there is nothing she could do today to 
get me to vote against her.
    Senator Graham. She may withdraw her nomination, actually.
    Senator Cramer. She is very witty. I warn you. Thank you, 
Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you very much, Senator Cramer.
    I think Senator Murray is not yet available so we are going 
to go to Senator Padilla for his introduction of Ms. Coloretti.

   STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE ALEX PADILLA, A UNITED STATES 
              SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Chairman Sanders and Ranking 
Member Graham. I am proud to introduce President Biden's 
outstanding nominee to be the Deputy Director of OMB. Nani 
Coloretti is a lifelong advocate for economic opportunity and 
the needs of working families. She spent more than a decade of 
her career as a public servant in the city and county of San 
Francisco, rising to become San Francisco's Budget Director in 
the office of then-Mayor Gavin Newsom.
    Ms. Coloretti is an experienced leader in the Federal 
Government as well. She joined the Treasury Department in 2009, 
as the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Management and Budget. In 
that role she helped to shape the newly created Consumer 
Financial Protection Bureau. Her record of success led to her 
appointment as an Assistant Secretary for Management at the 
Treasury Department, where she oversaw and modernized a 
workforce of hundreds of public servants managing our economic 
recovery.
    In 2014, President Obama nominated Ms. Coloretti to serve 
as Deputy Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. She drew 
on her long experience and relationships in local government to 
not only improve public housing but to do so through community 
partnerships, while prioritizing equity at the same time.
    Currently Senior Vice President at the Urban Institute, Ms. 
Coloretti is an insightful advocate for public policies that 
will help more families achieve their American dreams. She is a 
proven skillful manager and empathetic leader. She is highly 
qualified to support the critical work of the Executive branch 
of our Federal Government as Deputy Director of OMB, and I urge 
the Committee to support her swift confirmation. Thank you.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you, Senator, and you had eight 
seconds remaining.
    I believe that Senator Murray is now available for an 
introduction of Ms. Young. Senator Murray, are you there?
    [No response.]
    Chairman Sanders. Senator Murray? Ah, there you are.
    You are on mute. Mute, mute, mute. How many times in the 
last two years have people said that, ``You are on mute''? All 
right. I say it one more time.
    Senator Graham. You need to say it louder.
    Chairman Sanders. You are on mute. Sign language. Mute. 
[Laughter.]
    Chairman Sanders. We cannot hear you.
    [Pause.]
    Chairman Sanders. All right. See, this is one of the many 
reasons we all hope to God this pandemic is behind us.
    All right. Senator Murray will, I am sure, be back. But why 
don't we, in the meantime, swear our two nominees in.
    Under the rules of the Committee, nominees are required to 
testify under oath. Ms. Young and Ms. Coloretti, please rise.
    Do you swear the testimony that will give before the Senate 
Budget Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth?
    Ms. Young. I do.
    Ms. Coloretti. Yes.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you. And will you also agree to 
appear before this Committee in the future and answer any 
questions that the members of this Committee might have?
    Ms. Young. I do.
    Ms. Coloretti. Yes.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you. Please be seated.
    One last try for Senator Murray.
    Senator Murray. Can you hear me yet?
    Chairman Sanders. We hear you very loudly.
    Senator Murray. Okay. For the record it was not me. It was 
the Committee staff. Bless their souls.
    Chairman Sanders. All right. You are actually now too loud. 
Tone it down a little bit.
    Senator Murray. Yeah. I was using my preschool yell at you 
boys, but okay. Can you hear me now?
    Chairman Sanders. That is great. Okay.

   STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE PATTY MURRAY, A UNITED STATES 
              SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WASHINGTON

    Senator Murray. Well thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I am 
really glad to be here today to provide a brief introduction of 
Shalanda Young and to express my strong support for her swift 
confirmation as OMB Director, a role she has filled already on 
an acting basis for the past year.
    I have actually known Ms. Young for many years, many of us 
have. And we know Ms. Young for her expertise, her unmatched 
work ethic, and maybe, most importantly, a willingness and 
proven track record of bringing both sides, Republican and 
Democrat, together to get things done for the American people.
    When we talk about appointing good people in government, 
people who will do the work, we are all talking about Shalanda 
Young. Any Senator who has worked on any major spending bill 
during Ms. Young's tenure on the House Appropriations Committee 
have seen she knows the budget process inside and out.
    Ms. Young would also make history as the first Black woman 
to lead the Office of Management and Budget, bringing a really 
important perspective as we work to build an economy that 
really works for everyone in this country.
    And on that note I think it is important to mention that 
Ms. Young is a brand-new mom. Working moms have felt some of 
the worst of this pandemic. At a time when a full-blown 
childcare crisis is happening and the lack of a strong national 
paid leave policy, it has been especially hard for our working 
moms, forcing many of them to turn down extra hours or 
promotions, or even quit entirely. I cannot think of anything 
more appropriate than putting a working mom in charge of 
America's budget.
    Mr. Chairman, we are facing more challenges than almost any 
time I can remember--COVID-19, an ongoing threat to our public 
health and our economy. The pandemic has shone a light and 
worsened so many longstanding challenges like childcare and the 
cost of housing. And we are seeing the effects and costs of the 
climate crisis in every part of this country.
    We need a steady hand to help guide our economic recovery, 
and that person is Shalanda Young. Few people understand the 
Federal budget or appropriations process like Ms. Young, and 
even fewer have the benefit of her years of experience 
negotiating tough deals with both Republicans and Democrats. 
Let's waste no time in confirming her so she can keep working 
for the American people.
    Thank you.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you very much, Senator Murray. And 
now let us hear from Ms. Young.

 TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE SHALANDA D. YOUNG, NOMINATED TO BE 
        DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET

    Ms. Young. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First I would like to 
thank Senator Murray and Senator Cramer for those wonderful 
words of introduction. You know, I will not promise you lunch 
other than the Senate dining room, but the two who introduced 
me today are testaments to relationships that can be built in 
this institution. Senator Cramer and I have gotten to know each 
other very well over the last year, working together, and the 
same with Senator Murray. So thank you both very much.
    My family has found a new star, my daughter, so they are 
mostly home looking at her sleep and maybe watching me. But I 
want to thank my dad for escorting me here today as the lone 
person who drew the short stick, actually. She really is much 
cuter than watching me do this today. But I still want to thank 
my family, who has been a big support.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today as President 
Biden's nominee for Director of the Office of Management and 
Budget. It has been my honor to serve the last 10 months as the 
Acting Director. I am grateful to the President for the trust 
he has put in me as his nominee.
    When I first came before this Committee last March, I told 
you a little bit about my experience growing up in rural 
Louisiana. I talked about my years leading the House 
Appropriations Committee as its top staffer, serving this 
institution I care about so deeply, and I mean that. And I made 
a commitment to you that I would focus my service at OMB on 
restoring regular order, partnering with Congress in a spirit 
of bipartisanship and mutual respect, and delivering results 
for the American people.
    Over the past 10 months, I have kept that commitment, 
working alongside the extraordinary team at OMB, and with 
members of this Committee from both sides of the aisle. I would 
like to briefly highlight just five of OMB's achievements that 
showcase what our team is capable of with the partnership of 
the Senate, and this Committee in particular.
    First, together with Congress, we delivered crucial 
disaster relief funding for communities across the country, not 
only to respond to Hurricane Ida and last year's devastating 
wildfires, but to address unmet recovery needs from Hurricanes 
Laura and Delta. Working with FEMA, we announced nearly $5 
billion last year to help communities prepare for and respond 
to extreme weather events. And with the help of Congress, we 
secured another $4.5 billion through the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Law to rebuild community resilience.
    Second, we worked with members of both parties to help 
develop and enact the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, 
permanently authorizing the FAST-41 law, something I committed 
to get done during my confirmation hearings last March. And OMB 
is focused on implementing this law with the highest level of 
effectiveness and accountability.
    Third, we stood up a new Made in America Office that has 
already facilitated billions of dollars in new purchases to 
support American manufacturing. The office has brought 
unprecedented transparency to the waiver review process, 
important progress that matters to many of us in this room. I 
am grateful that the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law expanded 
Made-in-America requirements to all Federal infrastructure 
funding and codified this important office at OMB so that it is 
around for future administrations.
    Fourth, we took action to make the Federal Government more 
efficient, effective, and accountable to the public. Those 
steps include OMB's work to implement a new Executive order to 
streamline government services and improve customer experience, 
as well as much-needed progress on investing in IT 
modernization across the Federal Government.
    And finally, in keeping with the President's longstanding 
commitment to oversight, we directed agencies to focus on two 
important areas: restoring the integrity and independence of 
their inspectors general and working with Congress to ensure 
that IGs can fulfill their mandate. I know that there are 
legitimate differences in this country, in this room, that 
deserve honest debate, and I have appreciated the opportunity 
to speak directly with many of you about them.
    If confirmed, I will continue to work closely with you and 
your colleagues to deliver for the American people, and I will 
continue to find common ground, to be responsive, and to 
rebuild the career staff at OMB who play an essential role in 
ensuring our government works for all Americans, and that is 
across any administration.
    Chairman Sanders, Ranking Member Graham, and other members 
of the Committee, thank you so much for allowing me to be here 
today. I look forward to taking your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Young appears on page 32]
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you very much. Now we will hear 
from Ms. Coloretti.

 TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE NANI A. COLORETTI, NOMINATED TO BE 
     DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET

    Ms. Coloretti. Thank you. Chairman Sanders, Ranking Member 
Graham, and distinguished members of this Committee, it is a 
privilege to come before you as President Biden's nominee for 
Deputy Director of the Office of Management and Budget. I would 
like to thank the members of the Committee for considering my 
nomination and the many members who took the time to speak with 
me before this hearing. And thank you to Senator Padilla for 
his kind words of introduction.
    I would also like to thank President Biden for putting his 
confidence in me, and it is a honor to be sitting here 
alongside my esteemed and hopefully potential future colleague, 
Shalanda Young. I am honored and humbled by this nomination.
    I would also like to recognize my husband of 24 years, 
David Goldstein, who is here with me today, my son Kaleo 
Goldstein-Coloretti, who is supporting me virtually from 
college, and I would like to thank the many family members and 
friends watching this hearing from Hawaii to the East Coast.
    Finally, I would like to recognize my parents, Tony and 
Marielani Coloretti, who both passed away over five years ago. 
It is through their sacrifices that I am able to sit here 
today.
    My mom and dad both had immigrant parents who came to 
America in search of a better life for themselves and for their 
children. My parents worked hard to support my four sisters and 
me. My mom was a preschool teacher and then a home-based 
childcare provider, and my dad worked in restaurants and on 
cruise ships. Later on, I would also work in restaurants, 
which, along with Federal student loans and Pell grants, helped 
me finance my education.
    My parents taught me to focus on hard work and education as 
well as the importance of curiosity and empathy. It is from 
them that I developed a passion for public service and a 
commitment to expanding opportunity for all.
    I come before you today as a public servant and leader with 
over 25 years of experience in Federal, state and local 
government service and in the private and nonprofit sectors. 
Much of my work has focused on helping deliver better outcomes 
for people, families, and taxpayers. In fact, my first Federal 
service was as a program examiner at the Office of Management 
and Budget many, many years ago.
    I know firsthand that OMB has a critical role to play in 
the implementing the President's priorities, touching every 
spending and policy decision in the Federal Government and 
collaborating across agencies to deliver results effectively 
and efficiently.
    My work during the Obama-Biden administration, as Deputy 
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, and before that, as 
Assistant Secretary and Acting CFO for Treasury, focused on 
using data to make better decisions, implement new programs, 
and strengthen the organizations that I led.
    At HUD, I managed the Department's day-to-day operations, 
facilitated cross-cutting policy and regulatory issues, and 
oversaw a budget of $45 billion and approximately 8,000 
employees. As Treasury's Assistant Secretary for Management and 
Acting CFO, I helped stand up the Consumer Financial Protection 
Bureau, and helped create Treasury's quarterly data-driven 
decision framework to prioritize projects, align resources, and 
measure progress.
    I also understand how budget and policy decisions made here 
in Washington D.C. affect local policy, having worked in San 
Francisco local government for 10 years. During the 2008 
recession, I helped close a deficit worth half of San 
Francisco's discretionary budget, aided in the end by the 
Federal American Recovery and Reinvestment Act.
    If confirmed, I would be honored to work with the President 
and Congress to create and implement budgets that invest in the 
American people, support our economic recovery, and reflect our 
country's shared values.
    Thank you again for considering my nomination and I look 
forward to answering your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Coloretti appears on page 
83]
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you both very much.
    I give enough speeches so I am not going to give one today, 
but I just have a few questions that I would like to ask. As I 
think Senator Murray indicated, and I think we all agree with, 
although we come from different perspectives, this a very 
unusual moment in American history. People are struggling. The 
pandemic has wreaked havoc in so many ways, not only in terms 
of illness but in isolation, in the nature of employment. 
People are quitting jobs in record-breaking numbers.
    So we are really in an unusual place in the modern history 
of this country, and one of the issues that has concerned me, 
and I think it does not get enough attention, is the growing 
gap between the very, very wealthy and everybody else. You have 
got two people now who own more wealth than the bottom 40 
percent, and during this pandemic, billionaires have seen an 
increase in their wealth by $2 trillion, just in the last few 
years.
    So let me ask both of you, is that issue of massive income 
and wealth inequality something that concerns you, and what 
ideas do you have as to how we might go forward on that issue?
    Ms. Young. Senator Sanders, I was proud to put President's 
budget forward, which spoke to this very issue. Four hundred 
billionaires own the same amount of wealth as 150 million of 
the poorest Americans. That is why you saw tax proposals from 
this President that sought to not only pay for the investments 
in a fiscally responsible way but also speak to this issue of 
fairness in our tax policy in this country.
    Chairman Sanders. Ms. Coloretti.
    Ms. Coloretti. Senator, thank you for that question. I also 
support the President's ideas and as he has put them forward in 
his policies and in his budget. They aim to build this economy 
back from the bottom up and the middle out, both in tax policy 
and in investments in critical items like childcare, which we 
know will not only help working mothers go back to work but 
will also help increase the labor supply in this country. And 
we need to grow our economy and make it more productive.
    Chairman Sanders. Is it of concern to you that we are the 
only major country on Earth not to guarantee health care to all 
people as a human right, while we pay far more for health care 
than any other nation, and pay the highest prices in the world 
for prescription drugs? Is that an issue of concern?
    Ms. Young. Senator, one of the key priorities for this 
President is to bring down the cost of prescription drugs for 
Americans. You saw the budget spoke to that. It is a price 
issue for the American people, and it is one thing we certainly 
hope to work with Congress on in the near future.
    You are absolutely right. The cost of health care in this 
country is unsustainable. And as we talk about our full 
economic picture debt deficit, you cannot help but look at what 
it costs health care-wise, in our Medicare and Medicaid system. 
So we have to do something to address that.
    Chairman Sanders. Ms. Coloretti.
    Ms. Coloretti. Senator, I started my career in Federal 
service, as I mentioned, many, many years ago working on 
Medicaid and health financing issues at the Office of 
Management and Budget, and I was very proud to pass a small 
expansion of health care in the Children's Health Insurance 
Program, obviously in partnership with Congress.
    So yes, I do support looking for ways to expand health care 
coverage and lower costs.
    Chairman Sanders. You know, I have heard many colleagues 
talk about how much they love America. Well, if you love 
America it seems to me you love the children who are the future 
of America. And yet for a very long time we have had the 
highest rate of childhood poverty of almost any major country 
on Earth. We have tried, through the American Rescue Plan, to 
address that, with some success. Through the direct payments to 
working parents we reduced childhood poverty in this country by 
about 40 percent. That is no insignificant accomplishment.
    What is your thought about childhood poverty and how we 
might address that issue?
    Ms. Young. Senator, before I had a child, now especially 
maybe I am a bit sensitive to this, but as a developed country, 
as the leader of the free world, there is no issue, I think, 
more touching and something I hope we can all come together on 
in reducing childhood poverty. And you are absolutely right. 
The Child Tax Credit, by all estimation of economists, looks to 
have reduced childhood poverty by 40 percent, and that was a 
huge accomplishment for that program.
    Chairman Sanders. Ms. Coloretti.
    Ms. Coloretti. Senator, I will just add to that. Another 
thing I worked on in San Francisco was providing universal 
preschool to all four-year-olds. And so I support the 
Administration's idea, and I think many of you support it as 
well, to provide universal pre-kindergarten for every three- 
and four-year-old in the country, and make childcare more 
affordable for working families.
    I think, as I mentioned earlier, this is critical not just 
for working moms but for also--these investments, actually, are 
shown to pay off over time.
    Chairman Sanders. Right. Last question. We are the richest 
country in the history of the world and yet millions of senior 
citizens today have teeth that are rotting in their mouths, 
cannot afford the outrageous cost of hearing aids, cannot 
afford eyeglasses. Do you agree that hearing, vision, and 
dental care are essential parts of health care and that 
Medicare should be expanded to cover these basic health care 
needs?
    Ms. Young. Chairman Sanders, we spoke about this I believe 
at last year's hearings. That is why the President's budget 
supported providing hearing, vision, and dental coverage as 
part of Medicare expansion, and I was proud to come here and 
talk about that last year.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you. Ms. Coloretti?
    Ms. Coloretti. Senator, just weighing in to agree.
    Chairman Sanders. Okay. Thank you. Senator Graham.
    Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Young, as a member of the Appropriations Committee 
staff, did you work on defense budgets?
    Ms. Young. I happened to be Staff Director, so all of them, 
defense included.
    Senator Graham. Yeah. So how do you see the world in terms 
of danger right now?
    Ms. Young. Senator, it is hard to look at the news. It is 
hard to go to the job I have and not hear about the very 
changing global picture we see every day, especially with what 
is going on in eastern Europe.
    Senator Graham. Is that fair to say for you, do you agree 
with that, Ms. Coloretti?
    Ms. Coloretti. Senator, just weighing in to agree.
    Senator Graham. Okay. So the point I am making is, if you 
look at President Biden's budget proposal and project it out to 
2031, 2.5 percent of GDP spending on defense, that will be 
below what we were doing on September 10, 2001, before we were 
attacked. So I just think that is a very dangerous glidepath 
for our nation, and I will be working with people, you and 
others, to try to change that. So I do not want to, you know, 
make a bunch of speeches about defense other than we need a 
budget. Do you agree, we need a budget quickly, Ms. Young?
    Ms. Young. Sign me up for as quick as possible.
    Senator Graham. Okay. What about emergency supplemental? Do 
you think we need one of those too?
    Ms. Young. Senator Graham, we are assessing everything from 
COVID to our situation in eastern Europe, and we clearly will 
be in contact if we think the resources are needed.
    Senator Graham. Well, I got contacted by the Administration 
about $3.5 billion for Afghanistan to go to U.N. agencies, not 
the Taliban. Count me in for that, and I think the best way to 
do that is through an emergency supplemental. The World Food 
Program has been under siege because of COVID, and all kind of 
problems out there. We have got problems at home and abroad. So 
I think an emergency supplemental would be well utilized, and 
also to help the Ukraine.
    As a matter of fact, if we did have an emergency 
supplemental, would you support designating foreign military 
financing for Ukraine as part of that package?
    Ms. Young. Senator, you are looking at someone--I have 
visited Ukraine three times as a congressional staffer and know 
the issues very up close, and it is troubling by what we see 
there. So as you mentioned, we do not have a----
    Senator Graham. Are you inclined to support that?
    Ms. Young. Well, we do not have a regular appropriations 
bill so somewhere in one of those packages. I will not dictate 
to the appropriations leaders how they do it. We certainly 
support Ukraine aid.
    Senator Graham. Okay. Iron Dome. Eight months ago, 
President Biden promised to provide $1 billion to replenish 
Israel's Iron Dome system following the barrage from missile 
attacks from Hamas in Gaza. To this point in time the 
Administration has not yet formally requested the additional 
Iron Dome funding.
    Do you know if that is going to happen? Do you support that 
happening?
    Ms. Young. Senator Graham, I think the Department of 
Defense has been clear with congressional leadership that they 
support that backfilling of Iron Dome. The last legislative 
vehicle I understand is pending in the Senate, but we 
certainly----
    Senator Graham [continuing]. But you have not made a formal 
request of the Congress. Is that not accurate?
    Ms. Young. It is one of many things we have communicated 
through technical assistance to the Capitol. That is the normal 
way.
    Senator Graham. The sooner the better that we can get Iron 
Dome replenished, because the world, and that part of the 
world, is getting more dangerous. So I look forward to working 
with you on that.
    We just passed a bipartisan infrastructure package that I 
voted for, and we had a lot of money for roads and bridges and 
ports. One of the things that bothers a lot of us, just not me, 
is that the Federal Highway Administration issued a memo 
recently that says--that runs counter to congressional intent 
by discouraging the use of Federal dollars by states for new 
highway capacity projects. In South Carolina, we need all the 
highways we can get.
    What is your view about that memorandum?
    Ms. Young. Senator, I was not involved in that memorandum, 
and I am happy to take your concerns back and work with you to 
address any shortcomings.
    Senator Graham. Please do, because a lot of us who voted 
for that bill expected the states to have the flexibility they 
have had in the past to do, you know, appropriately what they 
need to do. In our state we do need more roads, and I 
appreciate if you could talk to people over at the highway 
department about that.
    Finally, when do you expect that we will get the next 
budget?
    Ms. Young. As you know, Senator, the State of the Union is 
March 1. It is typical that the State of the Union would lead 
into a budget. So that is certainly our expectation, that you 
would see that normal course of interaction between the State 
of the Union and the budget.
    Senator Graham. And finally, do you agree with me that 
continuing resolution is really harmful to the Defense 
Department?
    Ms. Young. What does that say behind you, ``The World is a 
Dangerous Place''?
    Senator Graham. Yeah.
    Ms. Young. So every two-week, every three-week increment is 
not the way to budget.
    Senator Graham. Thank you so much.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you, Senator Graham. Senator 
Murray.
    Senator Murray. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Again, I 
am really pleased to have this opportunity to speak with both 
these great candidates today. Both of these women share a 
wealth of experience that they bring to these roles and the 
right skill sets that I believe we need.
    I already spoke in strong support of Ms. Young's 
nomination. I also want to add my support for Ms. Coloretti's 
nomination. I know she brings a wealth of experience as well. I 
think this is going to be a great team leading OMB for really a 
critical time in our country's history.
    On the COVID-19 response and economic recovery, some people 
thought we went too big last year when we wrote the American 
Rescue Plan, and I think it is plain to see today that is not 
the case. We have seen a stronger and much faster economic 
recovery because of the bill that the Democrats wrote and 
passed--6.4 million jobs back into the economy since a year 
ago.
    But we do know there is more work to be done. We cannot 
recover from this crisis if we do not, at long last, take some 
bold steps to really help lower costs for families, like 
finding and affording quality childcare where they live, giving 
parents the opportunity to enroll their kids into preschool at 
no cost, making a landmark investment in climate action and 
clean energy, because we can see that that climate crisis is 
here and now, and reduce the cost of prescription drugs and 
housing and more.
    We have proposals to address all of these that are long-
term and fully paid for, that will actually cut the deficit 
over the time. So I wanted to ask both our nominees today if 
you can respond. What is the economic case for these strong and 
decisive proposals included in the Build Back Better, to put 
money back into people's pockets and make sure our economy 
works for us?
    Ms. Young, I will start with you.
    Ms. Young. Thank you, Senator Murray. Look, I know these 
proposals are pending before Congress so I will just speak in 
macro benefits of those things and not necessarily the 
legislative vehicle. I will leave that to the experts here, 
sitting around the table.
    But when you look at our economy you are absolutely right. 
It has grown the fastest clip last year since 1984, 5.7 percent 
economic growth, 3.9 percent unemployment, over 6 million jobs 
added.
    But there is more to be done. I think people around the 
table are rightfully speaking about price pressures and 
people's pockets, and what better way to deal with those than 
to use government investment to bring down the cost of 
prescription drugs that they have to pay out of pocket to even 
stay health.
    Childcare cost, to help the American people not spend more 
than 7 percent of their income on childcare. You cannot go to 
work without adequate childcare, as I am quickly finding out 
with a three-month-old. It is essential to the household.
    So there is an economic case to these proposals, not just 
pandemic-related, but these were things that I would argue were 
deficits, that we need to come out better on the other side of 
this pandemic than when we entered it.
    Senator Murray. Thank you. Ms. Coloretti?
    Ms. Coloretti. Senator Murray, I really appreciate this 
question. I think these proposals are aimed at building this 
economy--we have said it before so I will just say it again--
from the bottom up and the middle out. And the effort to grow 
the economy and direct investments into people, so that they 
can actually become more productive and contribute to a growing 
economy. And I think that the Biden administration, as I 
observe it from the outside, is directed in the right 
direction.
    Senator Murray. Great. Thank you.
    Look, I am really concerned we have not reached a deal to 
get this year's appropriations bill to the President's desk, 
and the clock is ticking. Ms. Young, can you speak to the 
importance of reaching a spending agreement for fiscal year 
2022, and some of the consequences if we fail to do so?
    Ms. Young. Sometimes I find it hard to find the words to 
this question. It is so incredibly important. You just heard 
Senator Graham talk about the defense needs and the uncertainty 
in the world. We cannot address those by two-, three-week, 
four-week increments. It is a dangerous proposition.
    The same if you go talk to your state and local governments 
who are waiting on critical grant funding. We do not do those 
in a CR, so it delays investments by your state and local.
    So it really is paramount to get an appropriations deal 
done, and we stand willing, from the Administration's point of 
view, to help do what we need to do to bring that to fruition.
    Senator Murray. Thank you. And quickly, before I close, I 
just want to raise two issues of critical importance to my home 
state of Washington. We have discussed these previously, Ms. 
Young, and the first is salmon recovery. And it is so important 
to restore these Pacific Northwest iconic salmon runs. We have 
got to continue our work on that.
    And the second is the Federal Government's moral and legal 
obligation to clean up the Hanford nuclear site. So I want to 
tell you, I am going to be talking to you about this more, but 
we have got to make sure that Hanford is on a cost-effective 
trajectory, without compromising the cleanup mission. We have 
got a lot of work ahead there.
    With that let me thank you both for being willing to do 
these. I look forward to working with the Chairman to get you 
confirmed as quickly as possible. Thank you.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you, Senator Murray. Senator 
Toomey.
    Senator Toomey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Director Young and 
Ms. Coloretti, thank you for joining us today.
    At your nomination hearing back in March of last year, 
Director Young, I asked you about the economic public health 
justification for spending about $2 trillion in the American 
Rescue Plan (ARP) bill, which was devoted mostly to programs 
that had very little or nothing to do with COVID. It was really 
a partisan wish list, and that is how it was passed, after $4 
trillion on a bipartisan basis had been passed the previous 
years.
    Well, the subsequent year has proven almost everything my 
Republican colleagues and I have warned about on that $2 
trillion ARP bill. Just by way of a quick review, it spent $400 
billion on universal government checks; $200 billion on 
unemployment insurance plus-ups that paid recipients more not 
to work than they made working; $126 billion to schools, 
regardless of whether or not they opened; $97 billion for a 
bailout of union pension plans. The list goes on and on.
    But the results, according to the CBO, was zero job growth 
above and beyond what they had anticipated would occur if you 
never passed the ARP. Oh, and COVID cases hit record highs. Oh, 
and we have the highest inflation in 40 years, and a whole lot 
more Federal debt.
    Now you, Ms. Young, maybe have got to get a pass on ARP. I 
know you supported it and I am sure you still do. That was 
proposed and passed before you were confirmed. But now I am 
concerned that the policies being proposed have gotten worse. I 
mean, ARP was counterproductive, but at least it was temporary. 
The so-called Build Back Better bill, as proposed, would be the 
single most damaging domestic legislation in generations. It is 
clearly an attempt to make America's middle class dependent on 
the government, with this free universal preschool, free 
government-paid family leave, free government-funded childcare, 
free expanded child tax credits, expanded Obamacare subsidies--
dramatic erosion of any sense of personal responsibility. Oh, 
and the largest tax hike since 1968, which would end up being 
paid for, to a very large degree, by American families, and 
make the U.S. spend it.
    Now I understand, thankfully, that that is at least on 
pause right now, and I hope it actually goes on a permanent 
hiatus.
    I want to zero in, for a minute, on a topic that you and 
the Ranking Member touched on briefly, and that is the 
provisions in the ARP that allocated $350 billion for state and 
local governments to spend on pretty much anything remotely 
related to even responding to the pandemic. And what is so 
shocking about that is that it occurs despite the fact that 
state and local governments were not in any kind of fiscal 
crisis in 2020 or 2021. In fact, in the aggregate they were 
taking in all-time record high amounts of revenue, in 2020 
even. I mean, we knew that in March of 2021.
    And then in 2021, they shattered the record from 2020. And 
the increases were quite dramatic. In 2019, state and local 
governments took in a little over $11 trillion. It was well 
over $12 trillion by 2020. It was about an 11 percent increase. 
If you look at the first three quarters of 2019 and compare 
that to the first three quarters of 2021, it is a 27.5 percent 
increase in the tax revenue, which was already a record high 
level of revenue.
    So what has the effect of that been? Well, states are just 
swimming in cash, literally. I mean, California reported a $75 
billion budget surplus for 2021. And as I predicted then, state 
have decided, well, they do not know really what to do with 
this money so they are cutting taxes. Even virtually bankrupt 
Illinois has a plan for a $1 billion tax cut, and the governor 
there says that the state is in the best fiscal position it has 
been in in decades.
    State and local governments have also chosen to waste some 
of this money, not knowing what else to do with it. We have 
Syracuse, New York, spending $2 million to plant new trees. 
Norwich, Connecticut building luxury apartments. The City of 
Chicago has decided to spend $31 million to create a guaranteed 
income program. It goes on and on.
    Again, let me just recap. ARP sent $350 billion to state 
and local governments after Congress had given about $650 
billion of extraordinary money--this is all above and beyond 
what we ordinarily send to the state and local governments--and 
that is all on top of absolute, all-time, record levels of 
revenue collections.
    So when I hear about supplementals for more domestic 
spending I just want to state for the record there is no reason 
that Congress should be providing still billions more on top of 
the $6 trillion it already did when there are hundreds of 
billions of dollars that remain unobligated and more money than 
state governments have ever even seen.
    I do have a question I will send to you for the record 
regarding getting Federal workers back to work in the offices 
to deal with Social Security, VA, and the IRS backlog. I will 
send that as a question for the record.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you, Senator Toomey. Senator 
Stabenow.
    Senator Whitehouse.
    Senator Stabenow. Oh no. I am actually here, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Sanders. All right. Senator Stabenow.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you. I am actually here. I am sorry 
that the camera was turned off.
    Thank you so much for the hearing. It is wonderful to see 
the two nominees in front of us, such wonderful, qualified 
nominees.
    I do need, though, to just say something to correct the 
record from my colleague and friend who just spoke about the 
American Rescue Plan. I know that this was something every 
Democrat voted for and every Republican voted against, and so I 
understand that folks on the Republican side want to make it 
seem like it was the worst thing ever.
    But the reality is this, that when President Biden took 
office there were 18 million people that were on unemployment 
insurance and now it is 2 million--18 million to 2 million. We 
helped businesses create 6 million jobs, the greatest year of 
job creation in American history. We have seen the best 
economic growth since 1984. We have seen the biggest single 
year drop in our unemployment rate in our nation's history.
    And so we know that because of COVID-related challenges and 
supply chain breakdowns and so on there is so much more to do 
in lowering costs for people, but the record is very clear in 
terms of the robust economy and what is happening right now. We 
just need to keep it going.
    Ms. Young, again, welcome, and Ms. Coloretti, it is 
wonderful to be speaking to you again. And I wanted to 
specifically start with the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs 
Act, which includes a lot of provisions to ensure Federal 
purchasing and infrastructure spending, to make sure it is 
American-made products.
    You know, we make a lot of things in Michigan. I hear a lot 
about that. We make things and grow things. I happen to think 
that we should be using American tax dollars to purchase those 
things. We were very fortunate to get a provision that I 
authored, along with Senator Braun, to solidify the Made in 
America Office's role within the Federal Government, and to 
have that now be law.
    And so the office is now in charge of enforcing, Buy 
American laws and ensuring that tax payer dollars are used to 
uplift American manufacturing, hire our workers first, our 
small businesses first, and shore up our domestic supply 
chains, which, we know are critical, we need to be making more 
things and then buying more things as a Federal Government, 
made in America.
    So, Ms. Young, could you talk about the Made in America 
Office's role in implementing Buy American provisions from the 
infrastructure bill, and what resources the office needs to 
ensure that the implementation is done effectively? I know 
people in my state, and believe people in the country want very 
much to see this move forward aggressively and be successful.
    Ms. Young. Thank you, Senator, and I want to thank you for 
your help codifying that office in the Infrastructure Law. We 
started that office in OMB through Executive order, and so was 
very happy that the bipartisan law ensured that it will be 
around for future administrations.
    The President was very clear. Even before the 
infrastructure law, he gave us an edict around the table that 
we needed to look at the waiver process. The agencies almost, 
without thinking, issue waivers for Buy American provisions 
that you all worked on and passed, and this office and OMB are 
meant to ride roughshod over this process. It should not be 
just automatic. It needs to be justified. So we are trying to 
bring some rigor to that process, not just for the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Law but for all that we purchase. We talk about 
appropriations bills--$1.5 trillion a year of basic annual 
spending, and a lot of the waivers are done through that 
process.
    So our intention is to make things in America. If the 
pandemic showed us nothing, supply chains are vulnerable. We 
need to bring American manufacturing back, and that is one of 
the things the office will focus on now--I would say during its 
tenure, but now its tenure will hopefully be for the 
foreseeable future, now that you have helped codify it into 
law.
    Senator Stabenow. Well, thank you. And I know I am just 
about out of time so I want to move to a different topic that 
each of you are welcome to comment on. But one of the things 
that we know from the COVID pandemic is that mental health and 
substance abuse issues have increased substantially, and they 
are going to linger, certainly, past the pandemic. In fact, 
between April of 2020 and April of 2021, more than 100,000 
people died of a drug overdose, and we have so many other 
numbers that relate to young people and suicides and people who 
need mental health help.
    And I have, as you know, been laser-focused with my 
colleague, Senator Roy Blunt, creating a system where health 
care above the neck is funded to help the same as health care 
below the neck. And we are now on the way to doing that with 
community behavioral health clinics.
    And so I would ask for your support for these. I will not 
go through all the pieces, but we have all kinds of information 
about how this is successful in keeping people out of jail that 
do not need to be there, or the emergency room who do not need 
to be there, out of homeless shelters that do not need to be 
there. You know, we have got this program fully operationalized 
in 10 states right now, and 40 different states have startup 
grants. But 10 states are fully implementing this, and we need 
this across the country.
    So I interested and urging you that the President's budget 
do even more. His first budget proposed a $125 million increase 
in the startup grants. We need additional dollars for that, and 
we need to have the full expansion nationwide put in place.
    So I would ask both of you if you would work with me, work 
with Senator Blunt in fully operationalizing this critical part 
of our health care system.
    Ms. Young. We would love to work with you on any mental 
health proposals.
    Ms. Coloretti. Agree.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you very much, Senator Stabenow. 
Senator Braun.
    Senator Braun. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Through the ARP Act 
we spent $1.9 trillion, and I think 10 percent of that was 
aimed particularly at COVID relief. And I am curious, with all 
the money we have spent so far, it still astounds me that we 
are nearly $30 trillion in debt and we are looking to borrow 
more money and spend more, regardless of the merits. I think 
there is a lot here that obviously we do need to address, but 
not in the way that we have done it, amassing that much debt 
into the system.
    I would like to focus in--I have a question for Ms. Young. 
How much money is still out there in terms of what you think it 
is, what it really is that is unspent from what we have done 
already, and is that something that we should be looking at 
first before we actually tee up more money, especially when it 
comes to COVID relief items like masks and testing and so 
forth? I know the figure that I think has been given to the 
Committee. I would like to know what you think it is out there 
that is unspent funds that we could tap rather than, you know, 
spending more money for things where we have got the funds 
sitting, unused.
    Ms. Young. Senator, we provided that information to the 
Committee at the request of you and several other Senators, so 
I am glad you have it. Ninety-seven percent of the funds pre-
ARP have been obligated. As you mentioned, ARP was both direct 
COVID relief, the health care dollars. Most of that has been 
obligated or announced. That is what helped us get through the 
Omicron variant.
    The money that is not obligated is something Senator Toomey 
talked about, state and local funding that represents most of 
the non-obligated funding. So the health care pieces is mostly 
gone, given the response we have had to do for Omicron. The 
other side of the table are the economic state and local money, 
and that is the majority of the funding left from ARP.
    Senator Braun. And is it correct that if we focus on what 
the states have, that that figure is close to $340 billion?
    Ms. Young. That sounds right, Senator.
    Senator Braun. And then, even though that is in the states' 
coffers, would it not make sense that for those states that 
have unspent balances that we would ask them to spend through 
that first before we would give them more money, or we do 
something federally that might duplicate it?
    Ms. Young. Well, Senator, the point of state and local 
funding was to ensure that they could, at the state and local 
level, respond to the pandemic. So I would certainly hate to 
see us do that and another variant come up. We have also, while 
Omicron is extremely contagious, I think we have gone through 
these variants with some level of success, and state and locals 
are utilizing these funds to also do mitigation efforts at 
their level. So we have to be careful about pulling money back 
before we know what the future twists and turns of this virus 
brings.
    Senator Braun. Well, I think, just for anybody in the 
public that is listening, back in '08-'09, I think the total 
that we spent, when it was systemically something actually 
affecting the economy, not a health care crisis, in terms of 
how we were going to remediate it, called for all this 
spending. I think we spent $800-$900 billion. And, of course, 
we have spent $4 trillion, another 2 with ARP, and then a lot 
more requests for more.
    I guess, in a short period of time, hundreds of billions 
has become passe. And the other thing the public needs to know 
is the Fed has pretty well accommodated all that by putting 
that debt on their balance sheet. I think that is largely, you 
know, what is driving now what is not transitory but is 
somewhat of a stubborn inflation rate, 7 to 8 percent.
    One other question. In December 2020, Congress passed the 
Consolidated Appropriations Act with overwhelming bipartisan 
support. The legislation included $1.375 billion for the 
construction of border barriers. On the first day in office, 
President Biden signed a presidential proclamation to pause 
construction and funding for the border barrier.
    Despite a continuing resolution, there is still an 
authorization and appropriation to build out that barrier. What 
will it take for the Administration to follow the law, and are 
there other issues where the Administration plans to ignore 
Congress?
    Ms. Young. Senator, I take the Impoundment Control Act as 
serious as anybody in this room. That is why GAO has found that 
this Administration has acted properly within the confines of 
that law and that we are obligating prudently. It may not be on 
what everyone thinks it should be, but we have environmental 
remediation to be done, we have gaps to be filled, we have 
returned billions of dollars to the Department of Defense where 
it belongs. So we are doing what we not only believe is 
responsible but GAO has validated that.
    Senator Braun. So do you intend to spend the $1.4 billion--
--
    Ms. Young. We are spending it----
    Senator Braun [continuing]. On a border barrier?
    Ms. Young [continuing]. On utilized efforts. You can only 
spend it on certain things. We cannot even spend it on 
technology.
    Senator Braun. That is what we authorized it for.
    Ms. Young. Yes. So we are spending it on what we are 
authorized to spend it on, and GAO has validated that.
    Chairman Sanders. Okay. Thank you, Senator Braun. Senator 
Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman. Good afternoon, 
Director Young, Ms. Coloretti. Thanks for being here. I want to 
ask you a little bit about health care costs and then, if I 
have a moment, a little bit about climate costs.
    On health care costs, the Budget Committee staff are going 
to give you a copy of this graph, which I have used before, and 
you may have seen before, and it charts that after the CBO 
health care spend projection of 2010, something began to 
change. Actual Federal health care spending began coming in 
lower and lower and lower compared to what CBO had projected. 
And even with the added spend of COVID we are still below those 
projections.
    And if you look forward, if you extrapolate CBO's 
projection forward and extrapolate forward from the actual, 
between now and the next decade, our budget period, there is $6 
trillion in health care savings that we have experienced, 
again, projected going forward.
    And we do not exactly know why that is, but I very strongly 
believe that it has to do with accountable care organizations 
that we set up in Obamacare, the so-called Triple Aim delivery 
system reform, trying to make health care more patient-
centered. All of those things that allow doctors to keep 
patients healthier rather than stay on the fee for service 
treadmill ends up saving money because a healthier patient does 
not cost as much in health care expense.
    So what I would like to do is to make sure that in the 
years ahead you will both be keeping your eye on the ball of 
how we do more of whatever it is that has saved us the $6 
trillion while also providing healthier patients, happier 
patients, and doctors who feel more rewarded in their practice.
    Ms. Young. Senator Whitehouse, we have talked a lot about 
debt and deficits here, but the main drivers are the aging 
population, cost of health care. So we are looking for exactly 
the types of solutions that you are bringing attention to. 
These Accountable Care Organizations (ACO) created in the 
Affordable Care Act (ACA) are the type of cost containment 
mechanisms we need to look at and see if there is more of that 
we should be doing.
    Senator Whitehouse. And just one fine Rhode Island point on 
it, we have been working for years in Rhode Island to bring 
these principles to bear on patients who are nearing the end of 
life or in what is called advanced care, and to free up doctors 
to provide the care that they need without wasteful steps that 
Medicare pricing policy demands, and we are seeking waivers 
through the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation (CMMI). 
I just want to flag that for you, because we will be pursuing 
this to make sure that all of the work that we have done in 
Rhode Island does not come to naught at the hands of the 
Federal Government.
    So I will flag that for you. You do not need to respond. We 
can talk more in person, but it is an important Rhode Island 
priority for me.
    Climate costs. Freddie Mac has warned of a coastal property 
value crash that will cascade through the rest of the economy 
the way the mortgage meltdown in 2008 cascaded through the 
economy. Central banks around the world are warning of a carbon 
bubble that could precipitate a global economic collapse when 
the bubble bursts. The Fed is beginning to make similar 
warnings here in the United States, and the insurance industry 
is warning that risks like flooding risks and wildfire risks 
are becoming so unpredictable as to be uninsurable.
    With those warnings out there, do you at OMB take this 
problem of climate costs coming at us seriously, and do you 
have anything to say to us here in the Senate about how 
seriously we should take those warnings?
    Ms. Young. Senator, I think the President's budget speaks 
for itself on the climate investments you see. We see it as an 
existential threat to the economy, to the global economy, to 
the American people. That is why you have seen young people 
around the world look at climate change as an issue they should 
care passionately about, given that their future is very tied 
to it. You heard in my opening statements the billions of 
dollars we spend, from a Federal Government, to respond to and 
rebuild from these catastrophic events that have continued to 
get worse.
    So at OMB we take it very seriously and commit to work with 
anyone who sees this as a threat, and it will take solutions 
from Congress to deal with.
    Senator Whitehouse. Just to put a dollar perspective on it, 
if we can get ahead of the climate problem we will save 
hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars. Correct?
    Ms. Young. That is correct.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman. I wish you both 
well. I cannot wait to be working with you, confirmed in your 
positions, fully and officially.
    Ms. Coloretti. Thank you.
    Ms. Young. Thank you.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you very much, Senator Whitehouse. 
Senator Scott.
    Senator Scott. Thank you, Chairman. Director Young, it is 
nice to see you again. The last time you were here I asked you 
a few questions on the budget. So the first one is, what is our 
Federal deficit now, or Federal debt now?
    Ms. Young. The Federal debt is in the 30s of trillions.
    Senator Scott. Okay. And what was our deficit last year and 
what do you project the deficit to be this year?
    Ms. Young. I want to make sure I get that right, Senator 
Scott. I do not have the number at my fingertips.
    Senator Scott. Okay. And do you know what our revenues were 
last year, last fiscal year?
    Ms. Young. Clearly not enough that we did not have a 
deficit, but again, I will get those numbers to the Committee.
    Senator Scott. Okay. The deficit last year was $2.8 
billion, and the collections this last year was $4 trillion. Do 
you know what our expenses were last year?
    Ms. Young. Whatever delta those two numbers are.
    Senator Scott. Okay. How about our interest expense on our 
Federal debt?
    Ms. Young. I know it is still at one of the lowest rates in 
decades. We still pay very little on our debt, given that 
interest rates have remained low for the last three decades.
    Senator Scott. We paid $413 billion last year, which is 7 
percent higher than 2020. Do you know what the duration of our 
Federal debt is?
    Ms. Young. I do not, sir.
    Senator Scott. Okay. And do you know, off the top of your 
head, what the amount of unspent COVID money is?
    Ms. Young. We talked about the state and local dollars 
being around $300 billion, but 97 percent of the pre-ARP COVID 
funds remain obligated, and most of the direct COVID response 
dollars in ARP are obligated or spoken for.
    Senator Scott. Do you stay up with what the inflation rate 
is and what the producer price index increases have been?
    Ms. Young. I do.
    Senator Scott. What are they?
    Ms. Young. Seven percent.
    Senator Scott. For which one? For what, CPI?
    Ms. Young. For CPI.
    Senator Scott. Okay. So Ms. Coloretti, can you give us 
those? What is our Federal debt now?
    Ms. Coloretti. I believe we said in the 30s of trillions of 
dollars.
    Senator Scott. Okay. And what do you think our deficit is 
going to be this year?
    Ms. Coloretti. I think you said our deficit last year--and 
again, I am guessing here--but $4 trillion.
    Senator Scott. And so if you think our debt is in the 30s, 
how much debt--either or both of you--what can we have? Is 
there a cap? What is the amount that you think is sustainable?
    Ms. Young. Senator, there are many ways to look at debt, 
many markers. One is, and what we have put forward as a theory 
in the case in the budget we submitted was what is the cost of 
carrying debt? And we remain----
    Senator Scott. Let us assume it is where it is now. What 
would be the maximum debt we should have?
    Ms. Young. Our theory is it really depends on if debt 
becomes so costly to carry that we cannot do other spending 
that we should be doing, and the interest rates remain very low 
at historic rates. So it has not crowded out other investments.
    Senator Scott. So over the last 50 years, do you know what 
the average interest rate for our 10-year Treasury is?
    Ms. Young. I do not.
    Senator Scott. So what if I said it is more--say it is over 
5 percent, and we have, you said, over $30 trillion worth of 
debt. So that would be $1.5 trillion of interest a year. Would 
that be unsustainable?
    Ms. Young. We do not think we are in an unsustainable 
situation. Again, it goes to the real cost of carrying debt, 
and our interest payments on the debt remain low and has now 
crowded out other investments we need to make in this country.
    Senator Scott. But you are not sure what the duration is. 
So if interest rates move, and they moved up this year, as you 
know. They have moved up since the first of the year. So if the 
interest rates continue to move back to, let us say, the 50-
year average, would that be sustainable then?
    Ms. Young. Senator Scott, of course we would have to re-
look at all of our assumptions if that historic nature of the 
cost of debt changes, but it has not in 30 years, in any 
measurable form.
    Senator Scott. So, all right. I am surprised that you have 
been in the job, I guess, for almost a year, and these numbers 
are pretty significant. I mean, these numbers are numbers that 
it seems like you ought to know. Because you ought to know the 
exact debt. You ought to know what we are doing in collections 
and what our expenses are, because if you were the CFO of a 
company that is what the expectations are, and that is how I 
think of this job.
    So I think we ought to start looking at reality here--33 
trillion-plus of debt, deficits that we cannot afford. It is 
going to be very difficult. Thank you.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you, Senator Scott. Senator 
Merkley.
    Senator Merkley. Can you hear me okay?
    Chairman Sanders. Actually, turn it down a little bit. You 
are coming in a little bit loud.
    Senator Merkley. Okay.
    Chairman Sanders. That is good. That is good.
    Senator Merkley. Thank you, Deputy Director Young. I have a 
couple of details I would like to ask you about. One is that we 
are still dealing with the horrific fires in the West, and will 
be forevermore. And one thing that has been helpful has been 
the funding of the National Guard to help provide fire crews 
during these worst moments. And the White House touted those 
investments in the National guard in a press release last 
summer, but the Administration did not put this fire training 
for the National Guard into their budget. And I want to ask if 
you would put it in the budget for next year, because it has 
become such an important additional component when we are in 
those mega-fires.
    Ms. Young. Senator, the timing of the budget, and when fire 
season and many of those initiatives came forward did not 
align, but we are happy to support those additional efforts, 
given the devastating effect of those forest fires. So I am 
happy to go back and work with our agencies, DoD, USDA, and DOI 
to make sure we have adequate resources to fight fires, and we 
will take back that specific proposal.
    Senator Merkley. Thank you. I appreciate that.
    Second, I noted and appreciated President Biden's 
commitment to direct 40 percent of green Federal investments 
towards environmental justice communities, something that is 
often greatly overlooked, and it is so important to have this 
kind of equity screen to track how agencies are spending their 
time and dollars to meet that commitment.
    What do you see as OMB's role in targeting and tracking 
those investments?
    Ms. Young. We are the centerpiece of that initiative, 
Senator Merkley, and it is one of the top priorities we have in 
our office. So we look forward to partnering with you, keeping 
you up to speed on our efforts there. But we are, I think, the 
keepers of that initiative and looking forward to carrying it 
out.
    Senator Merkley. Thank you. Do you anticipate that you will 
probably do annual reports in that regard, to help us wrestle 
with how we are doing?
    Ms. Young. I think that is a great suggestion. You know, 
transparency here should be something that is paramount, to 
make sure we are keeping the word of our value statements. So I 
am happy to take that suggestion back as one way to make sure 
the public understands what we are doing.
    Senator Merkley. Thank you. And then I wanted to turn to 
the challenge we face with each continuing resolution. At the 
end of that continuing resolution the possibilities are we have 
another continuing resolution or we pass the spending bills 
that the appropriate committees have invested so much in, and I 
know as a former staff for an Appropriations Committee you know 
exactly how intense that process is. And the third option, 
which we do not like to talk about much, is that neither 
happens, and in that situation we have a bit of a crisis.
    Do you think it is important to have contingency plans for 
that third option, when a continuing resolution runs out and we 
do not succeed, and immediately having another continuing 
resolution and more spending bills in place?
    Ms. Young. Senator, I truly believe--I have talked to you 
and most of your colleagues during this process and trying to 
do our part from the Administration on getting full-year bills 
passed. Everything I have heard, you know, it is difficult. 
Everyone wants to get there, and understands the devastating 
effects any threat of a shutdown would bring.
    So I am maybe, you know, maybe I will have egg on my face, 
but I am optimistic that the appropriators and the rest of 
Congress can reach a deal, and I think everyone understands the 
devastating effects of continuing resolutions.
    Senator Merkley. Well, I certainly believe that there is 
bipartisan understanding of how devastating option 3, door 
number 3 is, and yet my question was, is your agency planning 
for how we would treat door number 3 if we should have to go 
through it?
    Ms. Young. We have to, Senator. It would be irresponsible 
not to. And I appreciate that the Congress works by deadlines, 
so we have gotten pretty close up to the line, even though we 
knew Congress would come through. So even given that time frame 
the last couple of CRs, we have run exercises to make sure we 
know what our plans are in case a deal is not reached in time.
    Senator Merkley. Well, my role on the Appropriations 
Committee is as Chair of the Interior Subcommittee, and there 
are many key components that we worry about a great deal behind 
door number 3, when we do not succeed and we have another 
continuing resolution or a spending bill, including the 
National Park Service. My staff on that subcommittee has sought 
to discuss the contingency plans for that situation and has not 
been able to get a briefing authorized for them. Can we make 
sure that that briefing happens?
    Ms. Young. Senator, we are happy to provide briefings. We 
are conscientious about when we talk about potential shutdowns, 
given how close in timing we are to needing a deal. So we will 
work something out--I know your staff well--to make sure they 
have the information they need, but also not to portray a sense 
that we think we are headed down a bad road. So we will balance 
that.
    Senator Merkley. Let's wrap the contingency planning in all 
kinds of optimism, but it is important that Congress be part of 
a discussion about the consequences, and hopefully increase the 
absolute motivation and make sure we do not end up in that 
place. This request has been in place for I think going on 
three months now, and I do not really find it acceptable that 
OMB has been blocking Interior from providing such a 
conversation with the Interior Subcommittee staff. And so I 
hope we can remedy that situation.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you very much, Senator Merkley. 
Senator Romney.
    Senator Romney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Young, as you 
probably know I was one of those that was part of the 
bipartisan negotiating team that put together the 
infrastructure bill. Our largest single investment was in 
highways. You can imagine our surprise when we see the 
Department of Transportation indicating that the highway money 
cannot be used for increasing capacity of highways. This 
direction flies in the face of our intent and our needs.
    I recognize there are some states that are not growing and 
may not need additional capacity--New York, New Jersey, 
Delaware, Rhode Island, and so forth. But there are other 
states that are growing fast--South Carolina, Florida, my state 
of Utah, the fastest-growing state in the nation over the last 
decade. We need to increase the capacity in our highways or we 
are not going to see the economic growth which we projected as 
being part of this bill.
    Could you please get back to me and other members of our 
bipartisan group on progress on this front and what the status 
will actually be?
    Ms. Young. Senator, the Ranking Member has brought this to 
my attention today. I will absolutely look into this, and thank 
you for your work on that piece of legislation.
    Senator Romney. Thank you. A broader topic, which is, I 
have a six-foot chart in my office going back to 2000 BC, which 
looks at the coming and going of great civilizations over time. 
And there is a common characteristic of civilizations in 
decline and that ultimately collapse, and that is that they end 
up spending far more than they take in. They are able to do 
that because other nations see them as being strong and loan 
money to them. They inevitably have a massive inflation in 
their economy. By doing so, they devalue their currency. At 
some point their currency ceases being the reserve currency of 
the world.
    It is a real concern for many of us to see us, year after 
year, spend more money than we take in, and it is a precursor 
of economic calamity. Right now we are seeing the economic 
impact being showered on the people of America that are 
suffering with very high rates of inflation.
    I was, frankly, alarmed that the numbers were not familiar 
to you and to your Deputy Director. The national debt is $29.9 
trillion. It is not in the 30s. It will be. The projected 
deficits are roughly $1 trillion a year on a normal basis. If 
we have COVID relief packages it kicks those numbers even 
larger. This is an ongoing threat to our nation and to the 
well-being of our citizens and has to be a priority for you and 
for the Administration.
    I would note that about one-third of Federal spending is 
the portion that is part of the budget that you work on, that 
we vote on. Two-thirds is automatic, so-called 
nondiscretionary--Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and 
interest.
    Contrary to what you indicated in your testimony, our 
interest rates have not been about the same over the last 30 
years. They have come down dramatically and are now ticking 
back up. As a matter of fact, Bill Clinton called me after I 
lost my race, back in 2012, and said his biggest concern was 
that interest rates going back to their normative level would 
take our interest payments to be even greater than our military 
spending.
    So this is a major issue that you need to focus on. I would 
encourage you and hope that you will include in the analysis 
and reports you provide not just the one-third that we vote on 
but the two-thirds that we do not vote on, and project where 
that is going to be heading over the coming decade. This will 
determine whether we are able to keep up with other nations in 
the world and maintain our lead as the hope and guide for 
democracy throughout the world.
    Will you make this a priority of your effort to see what 
the total spending is and to see how our entitlements are 
affecting what our total debt and total deficit will be?
    Ms. Young. Senator Romney, you have my commitment to do 
that, and we have done that. Even off-budget items like Social 
Security, our budget fully reflected what the total outlays of 
the Federal Government are. We think that is the only way to 
present a unified budget. We did that in the 2022 budget and we 
will do that again in the 2023 budget.
    Senator Romney. I very much underscore the importance of 
this for all of us. We simply cannot keep going on spending 
trillions of dollars more than we take in without suffering 
high rates of inflation into the future and potentially losing 
our lead in the world.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you, Senator Romney. Senator 
Padilla.
    Senator Padilla. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate 
this opportunity to ask questions. As both Acting Director 
Young and the nominee for Deputy Director, Coloretti, know from 
an earlier hearing today at HSGAC, I had a chance to be with 
them.
    I wanted to raise some issues that we talked about by phone 
prior to today. As a follow-up to those conversations, I wanted 
to raise some questions about critical California flooding 
projects to protect the shoreline in and around San Francisco 
as probably the best example.
    Congress passed the fiscal year 2018 Bipartisan Budget Act 
in order to construct urgent flood control projects nationwide, 
including San Francisco's shoreline. However, inflation, supply 
chain issues, and Army Corps' initial underestimation of 
project costs have delayed these projects, which are now over 
budget. Easy to get over budget when the Army Corps initially 
underestimates.
    So I understand that the delays have been exacerbated by 
the Army Corps' decisions, which is not reflected in statute. 
And I would note that unless 100 percent of the project costs 
are in hand they cannot move forward with any piece of the 
project. The Administration has not asked for additional 
funding for this project in its budget, nor did it allocate any 
in the most recent work plan.
    So you can understand my frustration when the Army Corps 
says it cannot do the project until it has more money, yet when 
Congress gives Army Corps more money it does not allocate any 
to the project, and this is a project that the Army Corps 
itself said was critical and urgent, which is why it was on the 
disaster funding list in the first place.
    So, Acting Director Young, you see the absurdity of the 
situation we are in. Any thoughts on how we can resolve this?
    Ms. Young. It is something I focused on. We are working 
diligently with the Army Corps of Engineers on their legal 
interpretations on the mixing of money, depending on what 
bills. You have my personal commitment to find a working 
solution here. You are absolutely right. If the Corps, the 
government tells a community they are going to fund a project, 
it is unacceptable to leave it not completed. So you have my 
commitment to find a workable solution here.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you for that. Another Army Corps 
item while I have you. The Army Corps' projects are essential 
to facilitating commercial navigation, mitigating disaster 
risk, of course, safeguarding ecosystems, and supporting 
economic growth. OMB plays an influential role in the 
implementation of these projects, both clearing the 
authorization of a project and once authorized by Congress, 
approving both funding requests in the President's budget as 
well as funding allocations to the Army Corps' work plans.
    Acting Director Young, will you commit to evaluating 
potential changes to budgeting policies and economic benefit 
calculations that as currently structured disadvantage lower-
income communities and often communities of color, for example, 
where property values are lower?
    Ms. Young. This is why you see a focus and an entire 
Executive order on the issue of equity. Sometimes the scores do 
not give a full story on the reasons the Federal Government 
should invest in communities. So you certainly have my 
commitment to make sure we look at a wide breadth of things 
when we look at Federal investments.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you. In the time remaining a 
question for Ms. Coloretti.
    I do not need to tell you, from your experience at HUD and 
elsewhere, the urgency with which we need to act on 
homelessness and the affordable housing crisis in America that 
predates the pandemic. The pandemic has underscored the need 
for affordable, safe, and supportive housing. Over the past two 
years, though, many have lost their housing. Others have 
struggled to make rent or mortgage payments for the first time, 
and these hardships disproportionately impacted homeowners of 
color, lower-income families, and those with disabilities.
    With your previous experience, how can you help shape or 
strengthen housing programs to better serve the people of our 
country?
    Ms. Coloretti. Senator, I appreciate that question and a 
chance to talk about this a little bit. My understanding is 
that the Biden administration has a strong commitment to 
increasing the supply and the affordability of housing, and, in 
fact, in the fiscal year 2022 budget added additional dollars 
into housing choice vouchers, affordable housing supply, and 
resources to prevent and address homelessness for our most 
vulnerable.
    One of the things I was privileged to work on when I was at 
Housing and Urban Development was the issue of ending veterans' 
homelessness, and the issue is a coalition of Federal, state, 
and local stakeholders to really address housing needs for the 
most vulnerable. And I believe the Biden administration is 
pointed in the right direction on this.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you, Senator Padilla. Senator Van 
Hollen.
    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and it is 
great to see both of you. Congratulations on your nominations. 
Thank you for your service.
    I know the state of the economy has been discussed a little 
bit today. I just think it is important to remind people of 
some figures, which is that before we enacted the American 
Rescue Plan CBO projected that GDP growth in 2021 would be 4.6 
percent. It turned out that real GDP growth was 5.7 percent, 
ahead of projections.
    And in another hearing in the Banking and Housing Committee 
I asked the Chairman of the Federal Reserve about the impact of 
the American Rescue Plan on unemployment, and he said, 
unequivocally, that it helped to reduce unemployment. In fact, 
it reduced unemployment to under 4 percent four years earlier 
than CBO had projected--4 years earlier than CBO had projected.
    Acting Director Young, you and I have talked about the 
Federal workforce and the need to make recruitment a top 
priority, and retention a top priority. I chair the Financial 
Services and General Government Appropriations Subcommittee and 
have heard from lots of Federal agencies about the concerns 
about the hiring process and how long it takes. I have also 
heard that from people applying for Federal jobs.
    I know OPM has a major role in this area, but of course so 
does OMB. Can you commit to working with us here on this 
Committee and with OPM to identify solutions for improving the 
merit-based hiring process?
    Ms. Young. Absolutely. Look at the infrastructure law. We 
think we need at least 4,000 new Federal employees just to 
implement that law. So OPM, and working with us and our Deputy 
Director for Management, are working on waivers and things we 
can do to bring people in faster.
    We do this in certain places well, but we have got to do 
more to broaden. I have been a civil servant, and you need an 
advanced degree, in some cases, to learn how to get through the 
hiring system. So you have my commitment to work on that.
    Senator Van Hollen. Well thank you. I just think we have 
got to step that up in a big way, especially given the new 
commitments that need to be met with the legislation that has 
been passed.
    It sometimes is overlooked, but the Office of Information 
and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA) is, of course, a part of OMB and 
serves the government as the central authority for the review 
of regulations. Federal agencies submit significant proposed 
and final rules to OIRA, and there are currently over 80 
regulatory actions under review, such as improvements to energy 
efficiency standards.
    How will you prioritize these regulatory actions, if you 
are confirmed?
    Ms. Young. Senator, they are all important. One of the 
greatest learning curves and one thing I have spent a lot of 
time in the last few months is learning the OIRA process. It is 
essential to making sure the President's vision is carried out 
when it comes to regulatory policy and also make sure that we 
are doing a consistent job around competition, equity, these 
values in Executive orders that the President has put forth. 
They need to be represented in our regulatory policy.
    There are some things we have clear direction from the 
President that are priorities that we need to move faster, 
especially in the area of climate change. But there are all 
important, and many of these things have been on the shelf for 
many, many years. So we are working with the staff we have to 
clear all of them out once they come in from agency review.
    Senator Van Hollen. Well, thank you. I hope you will urge 
the President to appoint an administrator for that part of OMB, 
because there are lots of important actions that are awaiting 
final decision.
    Ms. Coloretti, during your time as Deputy Secretary of HUD, 
HUD was the most improved midsized department in the 
Partnership for Public Service's Best Places to Work study. 
Could you talk a little bit about the steps you took to 
accomplish that and about the Biden administration's plan to 
improve employee engagement so that every Federal worker is 
able to do the best job possible for the American people? What 
lessons did you learn there that we can apply government-wide?
    Ms. Coloretti. Senator, thanks for that question and for 
your leadership on this issue. We did use data, first and 
foremost, to help us understand where our scores were when we 
were at the ranked bottom, when I was the Deputy Secretary of 
HUD on the Federal Employee viewpoint Survey. And so we looked 
at the data, and one thing we learned was that only 51 percent 
of employees had filled out the survey. And so what that served 
to do was managers were not convinced that that was a real 
score, even though it was low.
    So one of the things we did was do an effective push to 
actually increase participation in the survey, thinking that if 
we really are at this low of a score we might as well find out 
for sure. And we were able to get our participation rate up to 
75 to 80 percent in one year, and it had been 51. That served 
to get a better set of data to understand what areas and what 
questions were scoring low.
    And so what we learned was employee engagement, there were 
several questions that are targeted at employee engagement, and 
it is important for each agency to look at those and how it 
applies to their agency. For HUD, what we did was we actually 
did a couple of things. We worked with every SES manager and we 
also did some crowdsourcing to get ideas from people about how 
to improve and strengthen HUD.
    And as part of that project, that set of projects and deep 
dive we did, was how we were engaging with employees. And we 
noticed that on those particular scores, all of those scores 
went up. And as you know, and you probably know this from 
looking at the Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey, when 
employees are more engaged it actually serves to increase all 
the scores.
    And so that is really how we did it, but we first and 
foremost used data to help us understand what was happening on 
the ground.
    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you, 
Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you, Senator Van Hollen.
    Let me thank Ms. Young and Ms. Coloretti for appearing 
before the Committee today. This is your second committee 
appearance. It has been a long day.
    Your full statements will be included in the record. As 
information for all Senators, questions for the record are due 
by 12 noon tomorrow, with signed hard copies delivered to the 
Committee clerk in Dirksen 624. Email copies will also be 
accepted. Under Committee rules, Ms. Young and Ms. Coloretti 
will have seven days from receipt of our questions to respond 
with answers.
    With no further business before the Committee, this hearing 
is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 4:15 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

          ADDITIONAL MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

    [Prepared statements, responses to written questions, and 
additional material submitted for the record follow:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


EXECUTIVE BUSINESS MEETING TO CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF THE HONORABLE 
   SHALANDA D. YOUNG, OF LOUISIANA, TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF 
     MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET AND THE HONORABLE NANI A. COLORETTI, OF 
   CALIFORNIA, TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND 
                                 BUDGET

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 2022

                              United States Senate,
                                   Committee on the Budget,
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:49 a.m., in 
Room S-120, The Capitol, Hon. Bernard Sanders, Chairman of the 
Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Sanders, Murray, Wyden, Whitehouse, 
Merkley, Kaine, Van Hollen, Padilla, Graham, Grassley, Johnson, 
and Braun.
    Chairman Sanders. I call this Committee meeting to order.
    We will be voting to report the nominations Shalanda Young 
and Nani Coloretti to be Director and Deputy Director, 
respectively, of the Office of Management and Budget.
    The first question before the Committee is the nomination 
of Shalanda Young to be Director of OMB. A quorum is present.
    I support the nominee and urge a yes vote.
    We will now vote that the Committee report this nomination 
to the Senate with the recommendation that the nominee be 
confirmed.
    The Clerk will call the roll.
    The Clerk. Mrs. Murray.
    Senator Murray. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Wyden.
    Senator Wyden. Aye.
    The Clerk. Ms. Stabenow.
    Chairman Sanders. Aye by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Warner.
    Chairman Sanders. Aye by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Merkley.
    Senator Merkley. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Kaine.
    Senator Kaine. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Van Hollen.
    Senator Van Hollen. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Lujan.
    Chairman Sanders. Aye by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Padilla.
    Senator Padilla. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Graham.
    Senator Graham. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Grassley.
    Senator Grassley. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Crapo.
    Senator Graham. Pass.
    The Clerk. Mr. Toomey.
    Senator Graham. No by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Johnson.
    Senator Johnson. No.
    The Clerk. Mr. Braun.
    Senator Braun. No.
    The Clerk. Mr. Scott.
    Senator Graham. No by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Sasse.
    Senator Graham. No by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Romney.
    Senator Graham. No by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy.
    Senator Graham. Aye by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Cramer.
    Senator Graham. Aye by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Sanders. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, the yeas are 15 and the nays are 
six.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you.
    The second question before the Committee is the nomination 
of Nani Coloretti to be Deputy Director of the Office of 
Management and Budget. A quorum is present.
    I support the nominee and urge a yes vote.
    We will now vote that the Committee report this nomination 
to the Senate with the recommendation that the nominee be 
confirmed.
    The Clerk will call the roll.
    The Clerk. Mrs. Murray.
    Senator Murray. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Wyden.
    Senator Wyden. Aye.
    The Clerk. Ms. Stabenow.
    Chairman Sanders. Aye by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Warner.
    Chairman Sanders. Aye by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Merkley.
    Senator Merkley. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Kaine.
    Senator Kaine. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Van Hollen.
    Senator Van Hollen. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Lujan.
    Chairman Sanders. Aye by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Padilla.
    Senator Padilla. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Graham.
    Senator Graham. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Grassley.
    Senator Grassley. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Crapo.
    Senator Graham. Pass.
    The Clerk. Mr. Toomey.
    Senator Graham. No by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Johnson.
    Senator Johnson. No.
    The Clerk. Mr. Braun.
    Senator Braun. No.
    The Clerk. Mr. Scott.
    Senator Graham. No by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Sasse.
    Senator Graham. No by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Romney.
    Senator Graham. No by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy.
    Senator Graham. Aye by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Cramer.
    Senator Graham. Aye by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Sanders. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, the total yeas are 15 and the 
total nays are six.
    Chairman Sanders. Thank you all very much for being here.
    All Senator's statements for the record are due by 12:00 
noon tomorrow, with signed hardcopies delivered to the 
Committee Clerk in Dirksen 624. Emailed copies will also be 
accepted.
    With no further business before the Committee, this meeting 
is adjourned. Thank you all very much.
    [Whereupon, at 11:54 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
    
                           [all]