[Senate Hearing 117-157]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                        S. Hrg. 117-157
 
                     HEARING ON PENDING NOMINATIONS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 19, 2021

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
       
       
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             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
 46-825PDF             WASHINGTON : 2022       
        
        
        
        
        
        
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     Jon Tester, Montana, Chairman
Patty Murray, Washington             Jerry Moran, Kansas, Ranking 
Bernard Sanders, Vermont                 Member
Sherrod Brown, Ohio                  John Boozman, Arkansas
Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut      Bill Cassidy, Louisiana
Mazie K. Hirono, Hawaii              Mike Rounds, South Dakota
Joe Manchin III, West Virginia       Thom Tillis, North Carolina
Kyrsten Sinema, Arizona              Dan Sullivan, Alaska
Margaret Wood Hassan, New Hampshire  Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee
                                     Kevin Cramer, North Dakota
                                     Tommy Tuberville, Alabama
                      Tony McClain, Staff Director
                 Jon Towers, Republican Staff Director
                 
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                        Wednesday, MAY 19, 2021
                                SENATORS

                                                                   Page
Tester, Hon. Jon, Chairman, U.S. Senator from Montana............     1
Moran, Hon. Jerry, Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from Kansas......     2
Cassidy, Hon. Bill, U.S. Senator from Louisiana..................     3
Blumenthal, Hon. Richard, U.S. Senator from Connecticut..........     8
Hassan, Hon. Margaret Wood, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire......    11
Tillis, Hon. Thom, U.S. Senator from North Carolina..............    12
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, U.S. Senator from West Virginia...........    14
Sullivan, Hon. Dan, U.S. Senator from Alaska.....................    17
Brown, Hon. Sherrod, U.S. Senator from Ohio......................    19
Blackburn, Hon. Marsha, U.S. Senator from Tennessee..............    20
Boozman, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from Arkansas...................    32

                     Introduction of Patricia Ross

The Hon. Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House of Representatives 
  and a U.S. Representative from the State of California.........    23

                               WITNESSES

                               Panel One

Donald M. Remy, Nominee to be Deputy Secretary of Veterans 
  Affairs........................................................     3

                               Panel Two

Gen. Matthew T. Quinn, USA, Ret., Nominee to be Under Secretary 
  of Veterans Affairs for Memorial Affairs.......................    24
Maryanne Donaghy, Nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Veterans 
  Affairs for the Office of Accountability and Whistleblower 
  Protection.....................................................    26
Patricia Ross, Nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Veterans 
  Affairs for Congressional and Legislative Affairs..............    27

                     Witnesses Prepared Statements

Donald M. Remy, Nominee to be Deputy Secretary of Veterans 
  Affairs........................................................    40
Gen. Matthew T. Quinn, USA, Ret., Nominee to be Under Secretary 
  of Veterans Affairs for Memorial Affairs.......................    43
Maryanne Donaghy, Nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Veterans 
  Affairs for the Office of Accountability and Whistleblower 
  Protection.....................................................    45
Patricia Ross, Nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Veterans 
  Affairs for Congressional and Legislative Affairs..............    48

                Questionnaires for Presidential Nominees

Donald M. Remy, Nominee to be Deputy Secretary of Veterans 
  Affairs........................................................    50
Gen. Matthew T. Quinn, USA, Ret., Nominee to be Under Secretary 
  of Veterans Affairs for Memorial Affairs.......................    78
Maryanne Donaghy, Nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Veterans 
  Affairs for the Office of Accountability and Whistleblower 
  Protection.....................................................    92
Patricia Ross, Nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Veterans 
  Affairs for Congressional and Legislative Affairs..............   107

                        Questions for the Record

Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record for Donald Remy, submitted 
  by:
  Hon. Tester....................................................   120
  Hon. Moran.....................................................   123

Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record for Matthew Quinn, submitted 
  by:
  Hon. Tester....................................................   127

Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record for Maryanne Donaghy, 
  submitted by:
  Hon. Tester....................................................   130

Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record for Patricia Ross, submitted 
  by:
  Hon. Tester....................................................   133
  Hon. Moran.....................................................   138

Post-Hearing Questions for the Record for Donald Remy, submitted 
  by:
  Hon. Murray....................................................   144
  Hon. Hirono....................................................   147
  Hon. Sinema....................................................   150
  Hon. Cramer....................................................   152
  Hon. Boozman...................................................   153

Post-Hearing Questions for the Record for Matthew Quinn, 
  submitted by:
  Hon. Murray....................................................   154
  Hon. Hirono....................................................   154
  Hon. Sinema....................................................   155
  Hon. Cramer....................................................   156

Post-Hearing Questions for the Record for Maryanne Donaghy, 
    submitted by:
  Hon. Murray....................................................   157
  Hon. Hirono....................................................   157
  Hon. Sinema....................................................   159

Post-Hearing Questions for the Record for Patricia Ross, 
  submitted by:
  Hon. Hirono....................................................   161
  Hon. Sinema....................................................   162

                        Statement for the Record

Statement of Support for Maj. Gen. Matthew Quinn.................   163


                     HEARING ON PENDING NOMINATIONS

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, MAY 19, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                            Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3 p.m., via Webex 
in room G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Jon Tester, 
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Tester, Murray, Brown, Blumenthal, Manchin, 
Sinema, Hassan, Moran, Boozman, Cassidy, Rounds, Tillis, 
Sullivan, and Blackburn.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN TESTER

    Chairman Tester. I want to call this hearing of the 
Committee on Veterans' Affairs to order, in order to hear from 
four nominees to be confirmed for the Department of Veterans 
Affairs. I appreciate each of you accepting the responsibility 
that comes with the duties for which you have been nominated. 
It is my hope and the hope of this Committee that you are up to 
the task. Although I have met with all of you, your answers to 
our questions today will help many of us make that final 
determination.
    Mr. Remy, as Deputy Secretary you would be entrusted with a 
great deal of responsibility at the Department. As COO of the 
Department, I want to know how you would oversee some of the 
major challenges at the VA, including electronic health records 
modernization, the AIR Commission, bringing the VA work force 
back into the office post-pandemic, and working to advance 
veterans' interest on the Joint Executive Committee.
    For General Quinn, I already know that you can get the job 
done, having worked closely with you as your tenure as the head 
of the Montana National Guard. I know you care about 
servicemembers, veterans, and their families, and I know that 
you are up to this task. Because of the pandemic, many families 
are having a hard time proving their loved ones' burial 
eligibility. No family should have to bury a veteran without 
the proper respect and gratitude of a grateful nation, 
especially because of the paperwork. If confirmed, I expect you 
to hit the ground running on this issue.
    Ms. Donaghy, your position may be one of the most difficult 
at the VA. I want to hear what steps you are going to do to 
right the ship at the Office of Accountability and 
Whistleblower Protection. For a relatively young office, it has 
faced earned criticism, and we are looking to you to bring a 
steady hand to that office.
    And Ms. Ross, we passed a lot of bipartisan legislation and 
priorities last Congress, and as Chairman I plan to continue 
that work again this Congress. Your experience on the Hill, 
with help of OCLA navigate the legislative process we are 
working on, on this Committee. I need to know you will ensure 
Committee members and staff, get timely and accurate 
information so that we can do our jobs.
    Again, I want to thank all of you for your willingness to 
serve and I look forward to listening to your testimony. And 
with that I turn the podium over to Senator Moran.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MORAN

    Senator Moran. Mr. Chairman, thank you. My apologies for my 
tardiness. Thank you for proceeding in my absence. And no 
complaint at all, I have shortened my opening Statement from 
three pages to three paragraphs to be accommodating, and I say 
good afternoon to you and to our witnesses. I welcome our four 
witnesses. Thank you for your willingness to serve in the roles 
for which you have been nominated and for appearing before this 
Committee today.
    Service is not new to any of you. You have served in 
uniform, in local government, in Federal Government positions, 
and each of you has a personal connection to the mission of 
supporting our Nation's veterans. If confirmed, each of you 
will be charged with building on recent successes the VA has 
made to improve veteran satisfaction and employee engagement. 
You will play a key role in completing modernization of 
business and health IT systems and implementing recent 
legislation, as the Chairman said, continuing the faithful 
stewardship of nearly five million graves, and work with those 
on this Committee as we conduct our oversight of all of your 
efforts.
    You will also be responsible for leading the Department out 
of its emergency posture from the pandemic and implementing 
lessons learned to make the VA a more resilient system in the 
future.
    I was pleased that Secretary McDonough committed during his 
confirmation hearing to fully engage this Committee on the 
Department's biggest challenges and to come to us seeking our 
ideas before decisions are made. I expect each of you, if you 
are confirmed, that you will do the same. Our Committee is 
invested in the total success of the VA to meet its mission. We 
all want the same outcome, to see that our veterans achieve 
success after service.
    Mr. Remy, it is good to see you again. Thank you for the 
conversation we have had. General Quinn, Ms. Donaghy, Ms. Ross, 
thank you again for your willingness to continue serving our 
country. And as I listen to the Chairman, my only additional 
thought, not in the script, is that this Montanan will maybe 
have a hold place on him by me, with seeking a little leverage 
of the Chairman over the next few days. With that I conclude my 
opening Statement.
    Chairman Tester. I would expect no less, but I would prefer 
wrist-wrestling right now.
    Look, for this hearing--and by the way, Senator Moran and I 
do have an incredibly good working relationship, so don't let 
this make you lose any sleep, Mac.
    Our hearing is going to be split into two panels. On the 
first panel will be Donald M. Remy, who has been nominated to 
serve as Deputy Secretary of the Department of Veterans 
Affairs. Senator Cassidy, you are recognized for your 
introduction of Mr. Remy.

                      SENATOR BILL CASSIDY

    Senator Cassidy. It is a great privilege to introduce Mr. 
Remy, the nominee for Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs. Mr. 
Remy is a military veteran who earned a Meritorious Service 
Medal during his tenure as a captain in the United States Army. 
He has got a pretty interesting career. I will hit some 
highlights.
    Presently he is the National Collegiate Athletic 
Association, the NCAA, Chief Operating Officer and Chief Legal 
Officer. His previous government service has included serving 
as Deputy Assistant Attorney General for the Department of 
Justice, where he was responsible for day-to-day management of 
the Torts Branch and personally handled high-profile 
litigation.
    As an Army officer, he was an Assistant to the General 
Counsel of the U.S. Army, advising the General Counsel and 
others on a myriad of legal and policy issues. And rounding out 
his Federal Government duties, he was a law clerk to the 
Honorable Nathaniel R. Jones in the 6th Circuit Court of 
Appeals.
    He holds a bachelor's degree from LSU and a juris doctorate 
from Howard University School of Law.
    As we were speaking, and in our calls beforehand, it is 
clear that Mr. Remy has a commitment to his fellow veterans, 
and I actually think working for the NCAA would be a pretty 
interesting job. So when I walked in and said hello, I said, 
``I just thank you for leaving a pretty interesting job for 
this challenge,'' and his response was, ``When your country 
calls, you answer.''
    With that I look forward to working with you as you help to 
address the needs of your fellow veterans, and I thank you for 
answering the call.
    Chairman Tester. Senator Cassidy, thank you for that fine 
introduction.
    Mr. Remy would you please stand and raise your right hand 
for the administration of the oath.
    Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are 
about to give before the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans' 
Affairs will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God?
    Mr. Remy. I do.
    Chairman Tester. Let the record reflect that Mr. Remy 
answered in the affirmative.
    Mr. Remy, you are now recognized for up to 5 minutes for 
your Statement.

                            PANEL I

                  STATEMENT OF DONALD M. REMY

    Mr. Remy. Thank you Chairman Tester, Ranking Member Moran, 
and distinguished members of this Committee. It truly is an 
honor to appear before you as President Biden's nominee for 
Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs.
    I am deeply grateful to the President and the Secretary of 
Veterans Affairs for their confidence in me and, if you all 
believe me worthy, for giving me the opportunity to serve our 
great Nation once again, this time alongside those who are 
dedicated to delivering on America's sacred promises to our 
veterans and their families. I also want to express my 
gratitude to Senator Cassidy for his kind introduction. 
Senator, if confirmed, I will make Louisiana proud.
    Over the last week, I have had the opportunity to gather 
wisdom, advice, guidance, and perspective from several members 
of the Committee and your staffs. You have shared how we can 
make good on our collective commitment to veterans and to 
assist the caregivers, families, and survivors who have played 
a critical role in support of our Veterans.
    I am a Veteran, yet I know I have a lot to learn about the 
Department of Veterans Affairs. I also know I share a passion 
for the mission of the agency and the veterans and non-veterans 
alike who work at the VA and in these revered halls of 
Congress. Your expectation of transparent and timely 
communications, demand for strong leadership and 
accountability, and bipartisan engagement validate my 
unyielding desire to undertake this important task.
    With me today is my incredible wife, Alicia, who has been 
rock solid in supporting my desire to serve again. Also with 
her are my two terrific sons, Alex and Jason. I could not be 
prouder of the young men they have become.
    I want to recognize one of my closest friends who was going 
to be here today but could not make it, and that is Major 
General Ronald P. Clark, who was scheduled to be with us but 
could not make this occasion. He is like a brother to me. We 
grew up together, and as most military families know, my family 
is his family; his family is my family.
    Chief among the reasons I sit before you today are my 
father Retired Army Master Sergeant Donald Remy, who was 
awarded the Bronze Star for his service in Vietnam and has 
relied heavily on his veteran's benefits, and my mother, Ann 
Remy. She raised not just me but my brother, an Air Force 
Veteran, and sister, as well as many other sons and daughters 
of our proud military community.
    I have been given a clear mission by Secretary McDonough, 
to use all my experience, skills, and leadership capabilities 
as the Department's chief operating and management officer to 
help nurture a culture of excellence and motivate those around 
me to deliver on our shared values. Further, the Secretary has 
expressed that we must continue to provide COVID care and 
vaccines while immediately developing and executing on plans to 
appropriately re-introduce our work force to a post-pandemic 
working environment. We also must assure that our personnel 
management strategies are well-positioned for employee and 
organizational success. If confirmed, I will embrace these and 
other assignments with courage, fortitude and humility.
    Throughout my career, I have faced difficult issues in 
complex organizations. Those experiences have prepared me to 
handle the variety of issues within VA and its community. They 
will be hard and multifaceted, but that is no excuse to not 
lean in and find suitable solutions. If confirmed, I will do my 
very best to help our team get it right.
    To achieve these goals will require solid leadership, 
teamwork, transparency, and accountability. President Biden and 
Secretary McDonough have said that every American should 
embrace our responsibility to our veterans and their families. 
If confirmed, I will work with this Committee, our civil 
servants, and among the VA's many internal and external 
stakeholders who have embraced this responsibility.
    I am greatly humbled by the opportunity to support a system 
that has helped me and my family so much. We have benefited 
from disability compensation, higher education benefits, home 
financing, medical care, life insurance, and burial 
arrangements. Our experience, like most veteran families across 
the land has been extraordinarily positive and in some measure 
life changing.
    I would like to close on what I believe is a call to 
action. Senator Cassidy, thank you for mentioning that. During 
my professional journey, I have answered the call whenever the 
Nation has requested my service, whether on active duty, as a 
civil servant, or political appointee in the Pentagon, 
Judiciary or Justice Department, and this time is no different. 
My mentor, late Judge Nathaniel Jones was a World War II Army 
veteran and attended college on the GI Bill. He often 
admonished us that to answer the call is not a choice; it is an 
obligation. His words echo in my heart.
    I highly respect the constitutional role of the Senate to 
evaluate my qualifications and if confirmed, I will join 
Secretary McDonough and a strong team of leaders and 
professionals dedicated to delivering on our promises to those 
who served and their families.
    May God bless all those who have fought and sacrificed for 
this Nation and may we be forever grateful. Mr. Chairman I am 
prepared to respond to any question from you and the Committee.
    Chairman Tester. Well, thank you, Mr. Remy. Look, it is no 
secret the VA faces its share of challenges. If confirmed, you 
will hold the second most important position at the second-
largest government agency.
    So the question is, and it refers back to some of Senator 
Cassidy's introduction, what is your motivation to serve in 
this position at this point in your career?
    Mr. Remy. Mr. Chairman, my motivation is highly personal. I 
mentioned it in my opening remarks, and Senator Cassidy has 
referred to it. I am a veteran. My father is a veteran. My 
brother, my uncle, my late father-in-law, many friends and 
family all served this Nation in uniform and are now veterans 
of the Nation.
    My family would not be where it is but for the Department 
of Veterans Affairs. My father received his education, both his 
bachelor's degree at his master's degree, through VA benefits. 
My father receives his care, both primary care and surgical 
care, through the VHA hospitals. My father has taught me many 
of the lessons that I have learned in life, but I have been 
able to witness what our family has experienced through the 
benefits that the VA has provided to him. And for that I am 
grateful, and for that I owe a debt of gratitude to the Nation 
and to the Department of Veterans Affairs.
    I would also like to say that I am a mission-oriented 
individual, and I have worked in organizations that are mission 
driven, and there is no greater mission than the mission to 
serve our veterans.
    Chairman Tester. So it has already been pointed out that 
you had a pretty cool job in the past with the NCAA. Tell me 
how that and other previous employment experience will help you 
handle the political pressure in this role.
    Mr. Remy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that question. In 
many of the roles that I have had, whether it has been at the 
NCAA or at the Justice Department or in the Pentagon or at 
Fannie Mae, or even when I was serving as a private lawyer in 
private practice, I have been put in positions where I have had 
to respond to public policymakers around very challenging 
issues that might face those organizations.
    I have experience. I have experience as a junior staff 
member, I have experience as a mid-level manager, and I have 
experience as a senior executive, and I think putting all of 
those experiences together collectively well positions me to 
serve as the Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs, if 
confirmed, at this point in time.
    Chairman Tester. Mr. Remy, in your response to the pre-
hearing questions you noted that the Secretary has expressed a 
need to immediately develop and execute plans to reintroduce 
the VA work force to a post-pandemic office environment. Could 
you outline for me what steps you would take, or that you would 
recommend the Secretary to take in developing such plans?
    Mr. Remy. Senator, if confirmed, first and foremost we have 
to make sure we follow the science, and when we bring people 
back collectively into an environment that it is a safe 
environment. I will make sure that that is our first and 
foremost priority.
    Second, we need to understand what we have learned from the 
remote environment that we have been working in so long. So 
working together with other agencies across the government, 
gathering data and information about efficiencies that were 
created, and inefficiencies that existed in that environment. 
And the third, Mr. Chairman, using that data and information 
and understanding what the needs are of our work force is 
critically important before we make a decision about how to 
bring people back into environments in a way that can help our 
veterans. Those are the priorities that I will put in place, if 
confirmed.
    Chairman Tester. As we have talked previously, you have 
served as Co-Chair of the VA DOD Joint Executive Committee, 
which oversees sharing and coordination of activities between 
the DOD and the VA. Your prior military experience could give 
you a leg up in understanding how to navigate the DOD 
bureaucracy to make positive advances for veterans.
    So please provide the Committee with three measurable goals 
you would hope to reach as you take on the important task of 
sharing and coordinating resources and programs with the DOD.
    Mr. Remy. Mr. Chairman, I have not had experience with the 
JEC thus far, obviously I am in the nominee position, but I do 
understand what the group is designed to do. And based upon my 
understanding, the first thing that I would put in place, if 
confirmed, is a specific agenda-driven meeting structure, to 
assure that every time the Department of Veterans Affairs and 
the Department of Defense comes together for those meetings we 
know exactly what we are designed and what we are focused on 
tackling at that meeting. I think that is critically important 
to understand and to build relationships between the two 
departments.
    The second thing that I would put in place, if confirmed, 
Mr. Chairman, is to identify and catalogue all of the 
challenges that might exist in either organization so that we 
can have a long-term strategic approach to meeting, why we are 
meeting, and how we can resolve those issues.
    And the third thing is to focus on how to deliver results 
from those meetings. I think one of the challenges that we have 
seen is there are not always efficiencies but there certainly 
is a common spend on similar projects, and I think it is 
important, Mr. Chairman, that if confirmed, we focus on making 
sure that we have joint efficiencies in spending America's 
dollars.
    Chairman Tester. Thank you, Mr. Remy. Senator Moran.
    Senator Moran. Chairman Tester, thank you very much. Mr. 
Remy, thank you for your presence here. I appreciated the 
conversation, as I indicated in my opening remarks, with you in 
my office. And I may be reiterating some of the things that I 
said earlier, but I have a couple of questions and perhaps more 
of just a conversation with you.
    One of the challenges that I have faced as a Member of 
Congress in trying to be helpful to my veterans, as we have 
introduced and passed legislation, the expectation I have is 
that the VA will then implement that law as written. If it is 
unclear how it is written, it will pursue legislative intent, 
but I have seen, on a number of occasions, in which, at least 
in my view, the VA implements the law as written, or 
legislative intent as it sees that it wants it to be.
    And so I have had this conversation with a nominee to be 
the General Counsel at the Department, and I just would again 
reiterate to you and ask that if you would confirm to me that 
you will do everything that you can, in the position that you 
hold at the VA, to make sure that measures passed by this 
Committee and passed by the Senate that are sent to the House 
and passed by the House, signed by a President, become law, 
that the VA will faithfully execute that law as written, to the 
best of their ability.
    Mr. Remy. Senator Moran, consistent with the commitment 
that you received from Secretary McDonough, as well as from the 
General Counsel, I can commit to you that we will implement 
laws as designed by Congress, as they are passed.
    Senator Moran. I appreciate that. Let me highlight for you 
that it is useful for us for the Department to provide us with 
comments on legislation that is pending, the view of the 
Department on legislative items that are pending before this 
Committee, and that, I think, has been a general practice. We 
are struggling with a current situation in which we are asking 
the Department to provide direct and straightforward comments 
on legislation now pending before our Committee in regard to 
toxic exposure. And I would again ask you if you believe it is 
important for the Department to provide its views so this 
Committee can consider them before it passes the legislation 
that I just asked you to implement.
    Mr. Remy. Yes, Senator. I certainly think, if confirmed, I 
will look into the issues around this. I think it is important 
that the Department examine issues and determine what the 
impact might be on the Department, as legislation may be 
pending. But this is an area that I commit to you that if 
confirmed, I will look into.
    Senator Moran. That is sufficient for me at this point. I 
would not expect you to be able to say anything different.
    I also would highlight for you that, as I indicated when we 
visited, that a lot of what I know or what we pursue in our 
office, and in this Committee, is a result of conversations I 
have from veterans, mostly in the circumstances in which they 
bring me or my staff a problem. What I discover often is that 
sometimes it is an individual problem, but often it is a 
problem that is encountered by many veterans, and it is what 
informs me as to what I should be doing in trying to change the 
way the VA works or trying to change law, how it applies.
    And we will continue to bring you and your Department 
problems that veterans in Kansas and across the country are 
experiencing, and we would expect that the Department would 
continue to be helpful to us in trying to solve those problems.
    Often that will result in a change in policy or just fixing 
the circumstance at the moment. One of the problems I would 
highlight for you is that it is not a rare occurrence in which 
what I am told by the Department of Veterans Affairs here, in 
person or in a hearing in which a policy has been changed or 
this is the policy of the Department of Veterans Affairs, is 
never communicated to the folks in the field. And so the 
circumstance I find myself often in is that I believe that 
something has been changed or a policy has been determined, but 
when I then return to the folks in Kansas, nobody has ever told 
them what that policy is.
    I highlight this, I think, not necessarily for a response, 
but if you want to respond you can, only to remind you or to 
suggest to you that there needs to be a much greater effort 
within the Department, when something is determined here to be 
the policy, it can only be implemented when that policy is 
communicated to those who work to implement it.
    Mr. Remy. Senator, if confirmed, you have my commitment 
that I will look at it that way.
    Senator Moran. And finally, at least for this round of 
questions, I would take this moment to assure you that when you 
indicated that you believed that you were worthy of this 
position, so do I.
    Mr. Remy. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Moran. Thank you.
    Chairman Tester. Senator Blumenthal?

                   SENATOR RICHARD BLUMENTHAL

    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for 
your willingness to serve, Mr. Remy. Let me ask you--and I 
apologize if I am repeating some of the questions--first of 
all, what do you think is the benefit of your service most 
recently, I think it is most recently, at the NCAA in preparing 
you for this position? Are there experiences there that you 
think will help in your service, if you are confirmed in this 
position?
    Mr. Remy. Senator Blumenthal, I believe there are. If I am 
confirmed in this role, I can draw on my experiences at the 
NCAA in dealing with very complex and challenging issues that 
exist across the country that deal with a group of constituents 
that the organization is there to serve. That, I believe, is 
very similar to the structure that the Department of Veterans 
Affairs has.
    But I also would be able to draw on my other experiences 
that I have had over my career, my experiences at the Justice 
Department or my experiences at the Pentagon, my experiences at 
Fannie Mae or in the 6th Circuit. I think I would draw on all 
of those experiences together, along with my commitment as a 
veteran myself, and an individual who comes from a family of 
veterans, to understand the issues of the Department of 
Veterans Affairs and to be able to help the organization move 
forward on those issues, if confirmed.
    Senator Blumenthal. A lot of athletes become members of our 
military, and vice versa, a lot of members of our military go 
to school after they are athletes. Do you think that colleges 
sufficiently take care of them?
    Mr. Remy. Senator Blumenthal, I think that our colleges and 
universities across America have an obligation to take care of 
those students on their campuses, and I believe that most of 
our colleges and universities do that, whether they are 
athletes or not athletes, whether they are veterans or not 
veterans. I think it is important, and I think it is relevant 
for any university to look at that as a component of what they 
do. When you send your children to college, you expect them to 
go to school, and go to school in a safe environment. My two 
sons are here with me. I sent them both off to college, and 
they had fantastic experiences on a campus that they believed 
was safe and protective to them.
    Senator Blumenthal. A lot of our physical plant in veterans 
facilities, and I am thinking of the West Haven facility, which 
recently had an explosion which killed two people in the course 
of maintaining its water system, its heating and hot water 
system, I am hopeful that you will commit yourself, as the 
Secretary has done, to rebuilding that infrastructure, which is 
so vital. A lot of it all around the country in our veterans' 
facilities is aging and decaying. I hope you will commit to it.
    And I am also hoping that you will commit to serving 
veterans who have other-than-honorable discharges, seeking 
health care. I have been working for some time on the invisible 
wounds of war, post-traumatic stress, and military sexual 
trauma and brain injuries, and my office has received reports 
of unlawful turnaways of veterans, in other words, rejection 
for health care of veterans with less-than-honorable 
discharges, who are seeking mental health care at the VA. I am 
working on legislation to eliminate or remedy these unlawful 
turnaways.
    If confirmed, how would you ensure that the VA is serving 
veterans with other-than-honorable discharges?
    Mr. Remy. Senator Blumenthal, thank you for that question. 
I think both infrastructure and the service of all our veterans 
is an important component of what the Department of Veterans 
Affairs exists to do. If confirmed, I will look more deeply 
into these issues to understand further how we can make sure 
that our infrastructure is adequate to care for all of our 
veterans, and all of our veterans who are eligible for service 
receive the service and the benefits that they are due.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. My time has expired. Thank 
you very much.
    Mr. Remy. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Tester. Senator Cassidy.
    Senator Cassidy. Mr. Remy, I graduated from LSU a few years 
before you, about five or six, and there was a professor who 
finished who taught there, T. Harry Williams, internationally 
known. I had the privilege of taking a Civil War course, and he 
said, ``The hallmark of a great general is overcoming the 
inertia of an army.''
    Now Chairman Tester has pointed out you will be the second 
highest ranking official in the second-largest department. I 
suspect, in fact I know, there is an incredible amount of 
inertia. How do you, if you will--no right or wrong answer; I 
am just asking--overcome the inertia of that organization to 
effect positive change? And I guess that is more of a question 
about your leadership style.
    Mr. Remy. Senator Cassidy, my leadership style is one of 
inclusion and collaboration, of reflection and accountability, 
of making sure that those around you are motivated to achieve 
the same goals that you are motivated to achieve. As I 
mentioned earlier, this is a mission-driven organization, and 
if confirmed, I will come to the organization and understand 
the culture and the people. And I have already had an 
opportunity to meet some of the great employees at the 
Department of Veterans Affairs, and I have been impressed with 
the staff that are at that building and working the issues on 
behalf of our veterans.
    But if given the opportunity and confirmed to the role of 
Deputy Secretary, I will approach all of our staff and talk to 
them about what they see as the challenges, to understand those 
challenges, but at the same time, to motivate them to rally 
around the mission of the organization.
    The one thing that I believe is true, that I have learned 
throughout my career, is when you have a mission-driven 
organization, even if you have individuals that might have 
differences of opinions, they can all rally around that same 
mission, and I hope to be able to do that at the Department of 
Veterans Affairs, if confirmed.
    Senator Cassidy. Let me ask, as well, again, kind of along 
those lines, there is a little bit of a tension in your role, I 
have noticed, not because you have been in it, because I have 
seen it in others. We are supposed to provide oversight, which 
is positive. We can hopefully give something positive advice. 
On the other hand it certainly could be interpreted as 
criticism. And there is an occasional Member of Congress who 
attempts to grandstand, believe it or not, so the criticism is 
raised to another level.
    So I guess what I am asking, how do you anticipate managing 
that tension between me having a request for information but 
that information I am requesting because I think there might be 
something wrong, and there might be something wrong. I have 
been very frustrated at times getting answers 6 months after 
the request. It is off point. By the time I ask again it comes 
back 6 months later, a little bit off point still. But by the 
time I finally get my answer, the issue has moved on.
    Now I could be cynical and assume that that is a strategy. 
I would rather be hopeful and say maybe I miscommunicated. But 
you see that tension there, and I think that is kind of where 
maybe Blumenthal was going. How would you address that? I mean, 
I want to have a partnership. I do not want to be grandstanding 
and criticizing, but usually if I am asking a question it is 
because a veteran or a physician or a nurse who works in a 
facility has indicated an issue, and I am trying to explore, 
being a physician as a background, to try and better understand 
that. Any thoughts on all that?
    Mr. Remy. Senator Cassidy, Secretary McDonough has made 
clear his desire for the Department to have a consultative, 
collaborative relationship with this Committee, and I am 
committed to that as well. I have talked to people in the 
building and they, too, recognize that there needs to be that 
type of transparency in order to provide for this Committee, I 
should say, to provide effective oversight. If confirmed, I 
will continue to deliver that message, and I recognize that the 
team at the Department is ready, willing, and able to do so.
    Senator Cassidy. I appreciate that. I look forward to 
voting for your nomination and I look forward to working with 
you. With that I yield.
    Mr. Remy. Thank you, sir.
    Chairman Tester. Senator Hassan?

                  SENATOR MARGARET WOOD HASSAN

    Senator Hassan. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and Ranking 
Member Moran, and welcome, Mr. Remy. Thank you for being 
willing to serve and for being here today.
    The Deputy Secretary has oversight of overlapping VA and 
Department of Defense issues, including the critical topics of 
mental health and the 200,000 servicemembers who transition to 
civilian life every year. My bipartisan bill, the Solid Start 
Act, strengthens a VA program under which the VA contacts every 
veteran three times in the first year after they leave active 
duty to check in and help connect them to VA program and 
benefits.
    So, Mr. Remy, how can the VA work to improve the Solid 
Start program and how can the VA and DOD continue to work 
together more broadly on behalf of servicemembers as they 
transition to civilian life?
    Mr. Remy. Senator, thank you for that question, and if 
confirmed, first and foremost, as the co-chair of the JAC, I 
will assure that that issue is on the agenda so that we can 
collaborate with the Department of Defense to make sure that 
our priorities are aligned, our focus is sharp, and our 
delivery is consistent with the expectations of the Committee.
    If confirmed, I will look more into this act, because the 
issues around mental health care critically important to our 
veteran community, and we need to make sure that we are doing 
all that we can to provide our veterans the services that they 
need if they are suffering from mental health challenges.
    Senator Hassan. Well, thank you. As I talk with veterans in 
my home State of New Hampshire, they talk to me a lot about the 
fact that when the first transition out to civilian life they 
are not sure who to go to for help, what options are open to 
them. So I think just that focus on affirmative outreach is 
going to be really important, so I appreciate your commitment 
to that.
    Let me move on to a different topic. The VA had management 
and operations issues prior to the pandemic, including a 
culture that too often silences whistleblower concerns. For 
example, a whistleblower's concerns were not adequately 
considered by the VA in a recent case at White River Junction 
Medical Center that involved allegations of serious 
professional misconduct by a doctor.
    Not listening to whistleblowers can be a risk to patients' 
health and can lead to significant issues of poor performance, 
waste, fraud, and abuse. So can you please speak to how you 
would manage senior leadership and operations across the agency 
to promote a culture that focuses on accountability?
    Mr. Remy. Senator you said the key word, culture, and the 
Secretary has made clear that a culture of accountability is a 
key component of the Department of Veterans Affairs, and that, 
I believe, firmly in. Accountability is the lifeblood of any 
good-functioning organization, and we need to make sure that we 
are focused on that, while at the same time understanding the 
challenges that might exist within the organization.
    The Office of Whistleblower Protection is an important 
component of how we deliver the messaging around protecting 
anyone who desires to become a whistleblower, or I should say 
is put in the circumstance where they have to raise an issue, 
and we need to make sure that all employees feel comfortable in 
that space. And so if confirmed, Senator, I will speak to this 
issue frequently, to make sure that I can drive home that 
culture.
    Senator Hassan. All right. Will you also just commit to 
taking seriously whistleblower concerns and working with our 
office on this matter and others, should you be confirmed?
    Mr. Remy. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield 
the remainder of my time.
    Chairman Tester. Senator Tillis?

                      SENATOR THOM TILLIS

    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Remy, it is 
good to see you again. I thank you for the time you spent with 
me yesterday evening. We covered the landscape. I am half 
tempted to spend my 5 minutes talking about name, image, and 
likeness, but I have decided I will not do that, in your 
current capacity.
    I just want to run through, we had a great discussion, so I 
am not going to ask you to get into a lot of discussions. One 
thing that I am concerned with is toxic exposure. We have the 
TEAM Act. We have a bill offered by Senator Sullivan, another 
one by Senator Gillibrand, and Senator Rubio worked with 
Senator Boozman and work that the Chair has done. But about a 
month ago, I told you this, we had a hearing, and these are 
consequential bills. And what we got from the VA is that they 
are not taking a position on it, which I can understand, maybe, 
but then they are also doing a study. And then I am hearing 
from some corners of the VA that they think that they could do 
it without implementing any of these bills.
    So once you get on the ground and get your bearings, can I 
get a commitment from you to see if we can get a more concise 
response from the Department on how any of these bills, 
including mine, whether they would be helpful, harmful, or 
something that you think you can do at current course and 
speed?
    Mr. Remy. Senator Tillis, you have my commitment. I will 
consult with the Secretary, and we will provide you with 
responses to your questions.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you. The electronic health record, I 
know that the implementation at the VISN in the Northwest, they 
put a strategic pause on it. As somebody who has done a lot of 
large-scale system implements I have got to give the VA a lot 
of credit for having the courage to be, I think, the only major 
system implementation to try to go on with all the distractions 
and challenges of COVID.
    I think that we are about halfway through that strategic 
pause. What I would like to do, also with the Chairman's 
permission, is to continue something that we did before, is to 
have maybe once-a-quarter updates in my office or at the office 
designated by whoever the Chairman would decide on, on the 
majority side, to have that operational review so that we can 
sort through things before you go through an oversight hearing, 
have project management, program office there. And I think the 
first meeting, if we could get the commitment, could be an 
assessment of what you found in that strategic review.
    Mr. Remy. Senator Tillis, as I shared with you when we were 
talking about this issue, I think it is important that we 
provide transparent communication to this committee, and once 
we have the information and have been able to analyze it, 
commit to you that we will sit down with the Committee and 
share that information and talk through how we move forward.
    Senator Tillis. Well, thank you, and what we want to do is 
have it in an informal setting, so that we can have a lot of 
give and take, and that would probably precede anything we do 
for the full Committee, just so that you have got folks that 
can understand the issues a lot more than what you can get out 
of a 5-minute question-and-answer round.
    So I look forward to doing that. I think it was very 
beneficial when we did it in the Obama Administration, the 
Trump administration, and I would like to continue that 
tradition forward.
    I am also concerned, in the prior administration, around 
2017 timeframe, the VA stopped reporting suicides related to 
combat-experienced veterans. They are not reporting that 
information. They are not providing that information any longer 
at a redacted or a high level so that we can gain insights into 
it. I asked Secretary McDonough, when he was before the 
Committee, if we could take a look at that. It could have been 
in the pre-discussion. But he said that he was interested in 
that. I think it is very important information, and I was a 
little bit confused why that went away in the prior 
administration. But can I get your commitment to look into that 
and take a position, if you are confirmed?
    Mr. Remy. You have my commitment, Senator.
    Senator Tillis. The other thing I would say is I think it 
relates somewhat to what Ranking Member Moran said. You know, a 
part of the MISSION Act is yet to be fully implemented. I am 
seeking your commitment here to make sure, in your role, in the 
deputy role, that you are going to do everything you can to 
implement the statutory intent of the MISSION Act. Can I get 
your commitment on that?
    Mr. Remy. Senator, the Secretary has committed to that, as 
has the General Counsel, as will I commit that we will 
implement the laws of this Congress consistent with the 
intent----
    Senator Tillis. It is always helpful to support your boss's 
commitment, so thank you.
    The last thing is the House unanimously passed out 
something that I spoke with you about. It is called the PAWS 
for Veterans Act, unanimously out of the House. It is a 5-year 
program. It is consistent with VA studies on the efficacy of 
service dogs for veterans, particularly wounded warriors, 
either with behavioral health or physical wounds. It is 
something that I would like the Department to look at and see 
if we can get your support, the Department's warm reception of 
that legislation, which passed unanimously in the House. And if 
anybody has been following politics around Washington now, 
virtually nothing gets passed unanimously, particularly in the 
House. So I hope it is something that I can get your commitment 
to have the Department take a look at it--I know that you were 
not aware of it before we talked yesterday--and hopefully give 
us support on moving that out of the Senate.
    Mr. Remy. Senator, I did look at the act. It is very 
interesting. As the owner of two puppies, I really appreciate 
the value that dogs bring in this context, and I know that you 
train dogs as well, so you have my commitment that I will look 
into this bill.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you. I should have started by 
thanking you for your service, your father, and thank you for 
being willing to serve again. I look forward to supporting your 
nomination. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Tester. Senator Manchin?

                      SENATOR JOE MANCHIN

    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, Mr. 
Chairman, I am going to ask for the Chair and the Committee to 
indulge me a little bit to bring you up to speed on the VA 
situation we had in Clarksburg with the deaths. We finally had 
a conviction, we had sentencing, and I want to go through that.
    First I wanted to thank Secretary McDonough for bringing 
his team down. We met last week, last Friday, and spent a good 
bit of time--or this Monday, I am sorry, past Monday, and spent 
a good bit of time. It is really disturbing. I want to thank 
you, Mr. Remy, for your desire to serve and for the service you 
have already given to your country but continue to give.
    While I was pleased to see this serial killer, we had a 
serial killer, Reta Mays, who committed we do not know how many 
murders. She has been convicted of seven murders and seven life 
sentences, with 20 years on top of that.
    There are so many disturbing numbers going on for the 3-
years she was employed there, and we are still looking into 
that. The systematic issues and incompetence at Clarksburg not 
only endangered patient safety of every veteran at the facility 
but also allowed for the serial killer's crimes to go unnoticed 
for so long. And for her to be hired in the first place, even 
when she had a troubling background, no background check. They 
did not complete it. We found it within 10 minutes, and she 
should have never been in the system.
    So I am concerned. I am concerned about any other VA 
hospital, any of our clinics, CBOCs, that people could be 
subjected to this. It was just gross negligence and 
incompetence.
    A huge concern of mine is how we are holding VA employees 
in Clarksburg responsible. Another is that the Joint 
Commission, which accredits--this is the one that bothered me 
more than anything, Mr. Chairman--accredits the VA facilities, 
gave Clarksburg a consistently good score before and during the 
murders. How they could get a good rating when all this was 
going on is unbelievable.
    This lady even was accredited with assistant nursing person 
of the year, and got a bonus, twice. 116 people died in the 3-
years she is on the floor, 116 people. It is unbelievable. Just 
because the sentencing is over does not mean the work is not 
done. In fact, the Committee and the VA, I believe, this is 
just the beginning. I would pray to God no other Senator in 
their area, no other VA hospital. And this is administrations 
before, so I am not--you know, I am very appreciative of the 
attention that Secretary McDonough has given.
    And I know you know, this is nothing more important than 
protecting our veterans after the have sacrificed so much. But 
to me, see, they are rectifying the systematic issues that made 
these murders possible a top priority. I look forward to 
working with you on this, and Chairman Tester and Ranking 
Member Moran, I know.
    But Mr. Remy, what we went through during the time that 
Secretary McDonough was there and the disturbing evidence that 
came out afterwards, I had gone to the Chairman and at that 
time the Ranking Member, Tester, and told him what a horrific--
we wanted to do something then. U.S. Attorney's Office kept 
stalling and saying, ``Listen, we do not want you to get 
involved right now. If you do then it could basically flaw the 
investigation.'' So we held off.
    Now it is over. She has been sentenced, and so much needs 
to be done.
    So as the nominee to be Deputy Secretary of the VA, 
reforming accountability of the Clarksburg murders is largely 
going to fall under your purview after you are confirmed, and I 
think you will be confirmed. I hope you are confirmed, and I 
know you will be. But it will fall under your purview, sir, so 
I need your commitment all the way through, the things I am 
going to be asking you.
    I know you will agree with me that what happened at 
Clarksburg was horrifying and absolutely failure by the VA. I 
do not know if you have been brought up to full speed on that, 
but I know you will be. Going forward, we are going to need 
daily hands-on involvement by top VA leadership at Clarksburg.
    Let me tell you what else we found out. The previous 
administrator that was there when the hiring of Reta Mays, the 
lady who was convinced of these murders, she just retired, 
because I am trying to find out where all these people were 
passed around, and they were passed around, sir. They are in 
the system, and we passed pieces of legislation before, you 
know, about passing the trash, and if we cannot protect the VAs 
and we are just going to pass people around, the incompetent, 
and showing that they are not qualified for the position, shame 
on all of us.
    So this is where I need accountability. That is why I will 
be holding everyone responsible for this, and all of us should 
be holding ourselves responsible for the accountability, 
providing the Committee a monthly update to the State of the 
Clarksburg facility, to include status of outreach to families 
impacted, and the perfect example is this. She has admitted, 
and basically pleaded, to 7 murders. There have been 3 others 
that have already been settled that were directly related to 
her. There was a total of 21, the hypoglycemia; 116 from 2015 
to 2018, 116 people died on that floor, 66 with hypoglycemia. 
We cannot even tell you, sir, how many that basically ever had 
sugar, or had any diabetes, because they did not even take a 
simple blood test, which can tell you immediately. The doctors 
will not even take the blood test after, and the administration 
never asked any questions. It is awful.
    This is what I am saying. We have endured this, and the 
families need to be basically handled that still have doubt 
that their loved ones died at her hands. We do not have those 
answers yet. So under your leadership we need personal updates, 
implementation of standards, if you can check into that to make 
sure that it does not happen anywhere else, and definitely not 
in Clarksburg again.
    Also, sir, I am going to ask you to be accountable for 
reporting back to me and this Committee, who the employees 
responsible for the negligence in these murders are. Are they 
still in the system? What was the time they retired, and are 
they getting full benefits from retirement. They are 
complacent. I can tell you. They should be basically held 
accountable for allowing this to happen. I do not know what 
recourse we have, but for a person, whatever rating they were, 
to retire and get full benefits of the Federal Government when 
so many people were harmed is just beyond my belief.
    Chairman Tester. Joe? This would not have been taken care 
of without your bulldog attitude, and I appreciate it.
    Senator Manchin. Senator, I tell you, I do not know how you 
all feel. You have got to be on this Committee----
    Chairman Tester. We have got three more after Mr. Remy, so 
could you close it out.
    Senator Manchin. I am going to wrap it up, sir. This is 
tough.
    We need to conduct a leadership assessment administered, 
sir, by an entity outside of the VA. They kept giving them big 
ratings and good ratings. I am just telling you, there is a 
flaw somewhere, and I know that Dennis McDonough will get to 
the bottom, and I know with your help you all can fix this. I 
really know. But we will share with you everything that we 
have.
    So I believe you have the qualifications. I know you have 
the background, and I know you have the desire and the 
temperament to do this. This is a tremendous undertaking, sir, 
and I am asking you to put your heart and soul in this one. 
There are so many families that have been left with no answers 
whatsoever. They lost loved ones. All they know is during this 
woman's time on that floor, people passed away that we felt 
should have never passed away. Whether we can prove that or 
not, but we have to make sure that these people are handled 
with the proper care.
    So with that, sir, I would ask your commitment on that, 
that you will do all you can to put a closure to this so people 
can live their lives knowing that their loved ones were honored 
in the proper way.
    Mr. Remy. Senator, if I may express my condolences and my 
empathy to the family. My heart goes out to them, for the 
families of all the individuals that were killed under these 
very unfortunate circumstances. I have read the OIG report----
    Senator Manchin. It is disturbing, isn't it?
    Mr. Remy [continuing]. and there is pretty disturbing 
information in that report. I have also seen the 
recommendations, and I am looking forward to seeing those 
recommendations implemented, and you have my commitment that I 
will continue to dig on this issue until all people are held 
accountable.
    Senator Manchin. I appreciate it, sir, and we will keep in 
contact on a daily basis with you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, and I am so sorry for 
taking liberty.
    Chairman Tester. Senator Sullivan?

                      SENATOR DAN SULLIVAN

    Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and to my 
friend, Senator Manchin, you know, Mr. Remy, this is an issue 
that, of course, impacts West Virginia but really it is an 
issue that all of us care about, because if it could happen in 
West Virginia it could happen in Alaska, it could happen in 
Montana, right? So this might sound parochial, but it is not 
parochial. Everything Senator Manchin just side on the West 
Virginia issues, I agree with, and I appreciate your support on 
this issue, which is horrible for America, not just West 
Virginia.
    I appreciated our discussion yesterday. Congratulations on 
your nomination. I mentioned my State has more vets per capita 
than any State in the country, and one thing I do, I reach out 
to them a lot. You know, we are going to get you up to Alaska 
to do town hall with our veterans. Can you commit to coming to 
Alaska again in this hearing, like you did yesterday?
    Mr. Remy. Yes, I can commit to that, Senator.
    Senator Sullivan. Great. One of the questions I got from a 
legendary Marine--unfortunately we lost him recently, his name 
was Cajun Bob, Bob Thoms--He was a Vietnam veteran, Hue City, 
won the Silver Star, six Purple Hearts--six. He proposed a 
question for the last Secretary of the VA that I asked, so I am 
going to ask it again, in his memory. We have lost him again. 
But he said, ``Senator can you ask this Secretary and the 
Deputy Secretary, will he kick ass and take names on behalf of 
our veterans?''
    Mr. Remy. That one is easy, Senator. I will kick ass and 
take names on behalf of our veterans.
    Senator Sullivan. Good. Cajun Bob would be glad to hear 
that.
    Let me ask another question that we talked about yesterday. 
I have been looking for a champion at ways to help maximize 
Defense Health and Veteran Health Administrations, especially 
in States like mine where we have a big military presence, 
active duty, but believe it or not, there is no full-service VA 
hospital in the whole State of Alaska.
    If confirmed, which I certainly think you will be, you are 
going to be the co-chair of the Joint Executive Council with 
DOD on these kinds of issues. What are your views on the 
capability to make sure we can leverage DOD facilities, VA 
facilities to better serve both our active duty and veteran 
populations? Anchorage is a place where this could be a poster 
child of success. We are working on this with legislation in 
the NDAA. But I would like your views on it more broadly and 
then commitment to work with me on this important issue, for my 
State.
    Mr. Remy. Thank you, Senator. I believe that, if confirmed, 
I can use the experiences that I gained when I was in the 
Pentagon, working both in Department of the Army and Department 
of Defense, in understanding how that building works. And if 
confirmed, as I get to understand how the Department of 
Veterans Affairs works and chair the JEC, I can be sure to 
build those bridges to make sure that we work together on the 
issues where we have joint interests. I think it is important 
that, if I am confirmed and I am chairing that group, we have 
clear agenda, that we have clear priorities, and that we have a 
clear recognition of the financial challenges that might exist 
for either organization, and we work together to create 
efficiencies for the purposes that you just described.
    So yes, Senator, you have my commitment.
    Senator Sullivan. Great. And there are financial challenges 
that come with integration, but as you just mentioned, there 
are often efficiencies and cost savings, and again, I would 
like to work with you on that. It is an important issue for 
that country. I think it has worked fairly well at the one area 
where this is done in Chicago, with the Navy facilities in 
Illinois, the integration there between the VA and the U.S. 
Navy. So I would like to work with you again.
    We had a good discussion on this yesterday as well, and I 
know Senator Tillis mentioned this, but I do think a hard part 
of the job, of the leadership in the VA, but an important one, 
is being able to make sure you are transparent with us. You are 
going to get all kinds of bills. We are looking at a bill right 
now that could have important coverage for toxic exposure, but 
also without definitive science huge, huge costs.
    Can you make sure that you commit to this Committee, which 
has been the tradition in the VA system, to be transparent with 
us, let us know when the VA is supportive, let us know when it 
is not, let us know what they think about the science, let us 
know what they think about the costs, not just the costs of a 
particular bill, but when bills might impact the services of 
other veterans. We always have to keep in mind the other 
veterans who are in the system, in the queue.
    Mr. Remy. Senator, as we discussed yesterday, I think it is 
incredibly important that we have a great relationship with 
this Committee. I think it is important that we be consultative 
and transparent in providing information. If confirmed, once I 
get in the building and learn more about this issue I can 
confer with the Secretary and determine how we can make sure 
that we are responding to the inquiries that the Senate has put 
before us and this Committee has put before us in a timely, 
responsible, consistent fashion.
    Senator Sullivan. Good. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Tester. Thank you, Senator Sullivan. We have 
Senator Brown virtually.

                     SENATOR SHERROD BROWN

    Senator Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Remy, nice to 
see you, and thank you so much for testifying, thanks for your 
willingness to serve, and thanks to Senator Tester for the way 
you run this Committee with Senator Moran. This Committee, it 
has been an honor to serve on and see the kind of cooperative 
leadership we have seen, perhaps, as Jon and Jerry know more 
than any other committee I assume that they are on.
    Mr. Remy, when Congress passed the VA Accountability and 
Whistleblower Protection Bill, we thought it would be used to 
go after SES employees with egregious offenses. That was 
certainly its intent. Instead, it has been used too often to 
fire lower-level employees who would have been better served 
with a performance improvement plan. We want employees to come 
forward and tell section chiefs what is going right and what is 
going wrong. That is kind of the whole point, to tell what is 
going right and what is going wrong at these facilities. It 
creates a safer environment for veterans and employees. We do 
not want employees afraid to raise concerns because of 
supervisor retaliation or because they do not think anything 
will change if they do report it.
    So my question for you, in this job, which is so important, 
what steps would you take, working with Ms. Donaghy, to 
implement the bills Congress intended to hold those responsible 
for egregious actions, like fraud, patient safety, or 
retaliatory actions against whistleblowers?
    Mr. Remy. Senator, if confirmed, I think it is important to 
communicate to all of our work force that whistleblowers will 
be protected in our environment, that the culture of the 
environment is such that we need to make people feel 
comfortable and, in fact, be comfortable when they raise these 
issues, and recognize that they are not going to be retaliated 
against if they do raise them. And if Ms. Donaghy and I are 
confirmed we will work together to deliver those messages to 
our work force and recognize that the culture of the 
organization needs to support that. In addition, if confirmed, 
we will assure that accountability rests not just with lower-
level employees but all employees of the organization, senior-
level employees as well.
    Senator Brown. Thank you for that answer. In our discussion 
earlier this week--and thank you for setting that up and 
answering questions face-to-face, if you can Zoom face-to-face, 
whatever that is--I appreciate getting to know you a little bit 
and understanding why you want to do this kind of job and you 
believe in this kind of service.
    One of the most important missions you will have is to 
ensure veterans' health and safety as they seek care, VA 
medical facilities, of course. I know that is why you want to 
serve. We talked, in that conversation, a bit about Chillicothe 
and some of the problems there. Talk if you would about how you 
will work VHA leadership to ensure patient safety procedures 
are implemented uniformly through the entire VA medical system.
    Mr. Remy. Thank you, Senator, for that question. Working 
with VHA leadership will be collaborative. Indeed, we need to 
be one in the same in our voice, in our focus, and in our 
commitment to assuring that all of our VA facilities are safe 
and welcoming to any veteran. So if confirmed, I will engage 
with the team there at the Department of Veterans Affairs to 
talk about the issues of safety of veterans and to talk about 
how we can make sure we put procedures and practices in place 
so that those veterans feel safe in our facilities.
    Senator Brown. Well, thank you. One question before I 
assume turning to over to Senator Blackburn perhaps next. Will 
you make sure that VA, both VHA and VBA, comply with OIG 
requests for information to ensure the inspector general can do 
their job?
    Mr. Remy. Yes, Senator, I will.
    Senator Brown. Thank you. I yield back the last minute of 
my time, Mr. Chairman. Thank you so much.
    Chairman Tester. Senator Blackburn, virtually.

                    SENATOR MARSHA BLACKBURN

    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Remy, thank 
you so much for the time and the visit.
    The Deputy Secretary is basically our chief operating 
officer for the VA. You oversee all of those day-to-day 
operations. And prior Deputy Secretaries have been asked to 
oversee specific projects, like the electronic health record 
modernization project that we have had going on. The Chairman 
and I have each worked on this. So talk to me a little bit 
about the management experience that you can bring and what 
would qualify you to manage this. It is a $16.1 billion 
electronic health record modernization account. There is $2.7 
billion in that annually. So talk to me a little bit about what 
expertise you have that leads you to oversee this.
    Mr. Remy. Senator Blackburn, thank you for your question. 
Thank you for your time earlier today. Indeed, the Secretary 
and I have talked about the electronic health records 
modernization project, and he has made it clear that that will 
be one of my priorities, if confirmed as Deputy Secretary.
    When I look back on my experiences, I believe that I have 
had a few that would put me in a position to understand the 
magnitude of this project, but also to understand the 
challenges. I have served in organizations as chief operating 
officer, chief legal officer, but I have also had project 
management experience and program management experience of 
programs admittedly not as large as this one, but that have 
complications around funding, around timelines, around 
milestones, around deliverables.
    And recognizing the importance of this project for the 
Department of Veterans Affairs, I believe that as I look back 
on those various charges that have been placed on my desk, I 
think I can use something from all of those roles to help, once 
we learn the result of the 12-week review, to help think about 
how we can move forward in a way that we can develop goals that 
are appropriate and that matter, deliverables that we can meet 
in a timely fashion to get this project underway.
    Senator Blackburn. Well, as you and I talked earlier, I 
have concern about so many of these issues around how we deal 
with the backlog in cases, as the Chairman is wanting to push 
forward a toxic exposure bill. Mr. Chairman, I will tell you 
this too. I think we need to make certain we look at the cost 
of this and the long-range implications of this. And I would 
hope before we move forward on that that we will do the heavy 
work on that at Committee, because then it is up to, once we 
make a decision, then it will be up to Mr. Remy to implement 
this and to find that pathway forward for integrating this into 
that electronic health records modernization project. And we do 
not want to give false hope to veterans and then not be able to 
meet the implementation.
    So I appreciate, sir, the caution that you are bringing to 
this project, and understanding that there has to be an 
assessment of what is there for current wait times, current 
backlogs in benefits, current blending of these records before 
you move forward.
    Also, Mr. Remy, as you know I have a concern over the VA's 
supply chain management and their very broken acquisition 
practices, especially the use of these government purchase 
cards, or P-cards, that really have a documented history of 
mismanagement and misuse. Do you believe the VA's current 
acquisition processes reflect a high-quality system of best 
practices, and do they effectively utilize taxpayer dollars?
    Mr. Remy. Senator, if confirmed, I will certainly look into 
that. One of the first things that--or I should say one of the 
first responsibilities that I had in my career was to deal with 
acquisition and procurement issues at the Department of the 
Army, so I understand the complexity of the problem, and if 
confirmed, I will look at these issues to determine whether or 
not there is some modernization that needs to occur within the 
Department of Veterans Affairs acquisition and procurement 
processes.
    Senator Blackburn. OK. Thank you. And, Mr. Chairman, I will 
leave it at that, but let's see if we can work on the toxic 
exposure issue before we turn such issues over to Mr. Remy to 
have to implement at the Department. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman Tester. Thank you, Senator, and I assure you that 
bill will be in prime-time form if it is to get through this 
body and the House and to the President's desk. So that will be 
done.
    I want to thank you, Mr. Remy, for your forthright answers 
to these questions, and you are now dismissed from this panel.
    Mr. Remy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, members of 
the Committee.
    Chairman Tester. I want to welcome our second panel of this 
hearing and ask them to stay where you are at for now, in the 
audience. And I would also invite Speaker Pelosi. First of all, 
welcome to the Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee, Madam 
Speaker, and I would ask you to come to the witness table if 
you might, while I do the introductions of the first two 
panelists.
    The second panel will include nominees of General Matthew 
Quinn to serve as Under Secretary for Memorial Affairs, and 
Maryanne Donaghy, to serve as Assistant Secretary for 
Accountability and Whistleblower Protection, and Patricia Ross, 
to serve as Assistant Secretary for congressional and 
Legislative Affairs.
    I have the honor of introducing General Matthew Quinn and 
Maryanne Donaghy. I will begin with General Quinn.
    Retired Major General Quinn served nearly 37 years in our 
United States Army and Army National Guard, culminating in his 
selection as the 27th Adjutant General for the great State of 
Montana. He is a veteran of Operation Desert Storm and Iraqi 
Freedom, commanding soldiers at the company and battalion 
level.
    Prior to selection as Adjutant General, Quinn was the 
President of Elm Locating and ELM Locating and Utility 
Services, while serving in the Montana National Guard as a 
traditional Guardsman. Like all National Guard Reserve men and 
women who serve, he carefully balanced his family, military, 
and civilian careers.
    General Quinn has a bachelor's degree in electrical 
engineering from Montana State University, a master's of 
business administration from the University of Montana, and a 
master's of strategic studies from the U.S. Army War College.
    General Quinn is married to Jody Quinn. They are the proud 
parents of five children: Jon, Braeden, Maddi, Kailyn, and 
Megan, ranging in ages from 32 to 18. They enjoy everything 
that Montana has to offer in the great outdoors while spending 
time with family.
    I want to personally thank you, General Quinn, for your 
lifetime of service to the men and women in uniform.
    Next we have Maryanne Donaghy who has been nominated to 
serve as Assistant Secretary for Accountability and 
Whistleblower Protection. She is an attorney and senior advisor 
at the Biden Institute at the University of Delaware, her alma 
mater.
    The nominee started her career as a certified public 
accountant. She attended Temple University School of Law in the 
evening and practiced law in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. She 
was a Federal prosecutor for many years and worked both in the 
U.S. Attorney's Office in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania 
and Delaware, where she focused on white-collar fraud.
    Since leaving the Department of Justice, Ms. Donaghy has 
counseled numerous organizations, including nonprofits, large 
corporations, and government agencies on response to Federal, 
State, and congressional investigations and on building 
effective compliance programs. Working with the Inspector 
General of Philadelphia, the nominee established a fully 
functioning Inspector General's Office for the Philadelphia 
School District.
    She is a founding committee member of the Veterans 
Committee for Delaware State Bar Association.
    She is married and the mother of three sons, one of whom 
currently serves in the Navy and another who is a Marine Corps 
veteran.
    I want to thank you, Ms. Donaghy, for being here today and 
for your great work that you have done throughout your life.
    Next we have the high honor of having Speaker Pelosi here 
today, who is going to introduce Ms. Patricia Ross, who is 
nominated for the Assistant Secretary of congressional and 
Legislative Affairs. And on a side note, I must say she must 
have been a heck of an employee because I know you have got a 
lot of important things to do, Madam Speaker. But it is great 
to have you here.

               STATEMENT OF THE HON. NANCY PELOSI

    Ms. Pelosi. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. It is with 
great respect for this Committee and its proud bipartisan 
spirit and tradition of serving our Nation's veterans and their 
families and caregivers that I come before you today. I join 
you in saluting General Matthew Quinn and Maryanne Donaghy for 
their service and prospects, and wish them well as they go 
forward.
    But I am here today to talk about a gold-standard of 
service from my office. I say that to you because I know your 
work honors our responsibility to ensure the justice we pledge 
to leave no soldier on the battlefield. When they come home we 
need no veteran behind. And that is the spirit and the mission 
of my senior policy advisor, nominated for Assistant Secretary 
for the Office of congressional and Legislative Affairs, 
Patricia Ross.
    She comes here, as many of us do, strengthened by the love 
of her family. Let us acknowledge her mother, Nancy, her 
sisters, Michelle and Barbara, and her partner, Tim.
    President Biden has chosen an expert domestic policymaker 
in appointing Patricia Ross to this critical position. Patty, 
as she is known, has served in my office for over a decade, 
where she has been an invaluable asset to our entire Congress, 
our caucus, but more importantly, to the people that we serve.
    Her portfolio spans a significant portion of domestic 
policy--agriculture, nutrition, education, and labor--and 
veterans military families and caregivers. Patty has earned the 
respect of members and staff on both sides of the aisle of her 
work, but particularly for her iron-clad commitment to our 
veterans. Coming from a long line of veterans, this dedication 
is in her DNA. As Speaker, I have seen her commitment 
firsthand, including her work leading my VSO, Veteran Service 
Organization, Roundtables, which ensure that veterans have a 
seat at the decisionmaking table.
    Indeed, one of the many strengths that Patty brings is her 
expertise as a consensus finder, coalition builder, a listener, 
and a leader, someone with the courage and character to fight 
to ensure that Congress and our constituents have a voice at 
the VA.
    President Biden and Secretary McDonough have made the well-
being of our veterans as a top priority, and their mandate 
includes crushing the coronavirus as the pandemic tests VA's 
readiness, providing timely, inclusive, and world-class health 
care for all veterans including those suffering the hidden 
wounds of war, helping veterans build civilian lives of 
opportunity and prosperity worthy of their sacrifice, and 
building trust so that we can keep faith with families and 
caregivers.
    As a true partner of veterans, Patty will rise to this 
responsibility, and really to Senator Sullivan's Statement, she 
is ready to kick butt--I won't go to his word--and take names. 
Right, Patty?
    Maggie, forgive me. Madam Senator, forgive me.
    Patty has helped coordinate congressional delegations 
including to France to mark the 75th anniversary of the allied 
D-Day landing in Normandy, where we honored our veterans, and 
to Belgium and Luxembourg, to mark the anniversary of the 
Battle of the Bulge. That visit, we were honored to meet with 
World War II veterans, in both visits actually, including one 
man in his 90's, who spoke for America's veterans at the 
anniversary of the Battle of the Bulge. He joined the King of 
Belgium and the Grand Archduke of Luxembourg and the President 
of Germany, and he, as a representative of our veterans, he 
said, his message to us was simple when he said, ``Pray for 
peace.''
    It is with great confidence that I can say that Patty Ross, 
if confirmed, will be a powerful force for peace, for our 
veterans, their families, and caregivers.
    Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you and to 
introduce President Biden's nominee for the Assistant Secretary 
for the Office of congressional and Legislative Affairs, Patty 
Ross.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hassan. Thank 
you, members of the Committee.
    Chairman Tester. Thank you, Speaker Pelosi. Thank you very, 
very much for coming and introducing Ms. Ross. I would invite 
you to take a seat behind the panel.
    Ms. Pelosi. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Tester. Absolutely, and thank you for being here. 
It is an honor to have you here.
    General Quinn, Ms. Donaghy, Ms. Ross, please come forward 
and take your respective places at the witness table, and in a 
moment I will execute the oath.
    [Pause.]
    Chairman Tester. I would ask all three of you to stand and 
raise your right hands.
    Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are 
about to give before the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans' 
Affairs will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God?
    General Quinn. I do.
    Ms. Donaghy. I do.
    Ms. Ross. I do.
    Chairman Tester. Let the record reflect that all three 
witnesses, all three nominees, answered in the affirmative.
    General Quinn, you are now recognized for up to five 
minutes for your Statement.

                            PANEL II

               STATEMENT OF GEN. MATTHEW T. QUINN

    General Quinn. Chairman Tester, Senator Moran, 
distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to appear before you today. I am honored to once 
again be before this Agust body, although today in a much 
different capacity. When I previously testified, I discussed 
the ongoing crisis of veteran suicides and actions we were 
taking in Montana to address them.
    Today, however, I ask for your support to serve as the 
Under Secretary of Memorial Affairs for the National Cemetery 
Administration in the Department of Veterans Affairs. If 
confirmed, I will work with Secretary McDonough in ensuring our 
veterans are provided a final resting place that is a lasting 
tribute to their selfless service.
    First, I must thank my family, especially my wife, Jody, 
who is here with me today, and as importantly my children, Jon, 
Braeden, Maddi, Kailyn, and Megan. I truly am blessed with an 
incredible family who have supported me throughout my military 
service, and continue to support me as I seek to continue my 
service for our veterans and their families. As is true of so 
many military families, they have sacrificed so much so that I 
could serve in our Nation's military.
    For nearly 37 years, I have stood shoulder to shoulder with 
fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, and Coast Guardsmen, 
at home and abroad. I understand the needs of our 
servicemembers, their sacrifices for our Nation, and the debt 
we owe them.
    I cannot and will not forget my service in our National 
Guard, women and men in all 54 States, territories, and the 
District of Columbia who stand ready not only as the 
operational reserve of our U.S. Army and U.S. Air Force, but 
also respond daily to the needs of their fellow citizens here 
at home. I have served with them as they performed security 
missions in Iraq and while they provided comfort to our nursing 
home residents who were unable to have family visitors during 
the COVID pandemic. These women and men continue to faithfully 
serve this Nation, their States, territories, and the district, 
and it has been my honor to serve alongside each of them. They 
are why I am able to appear before you today.
    If confirmed, I commit not only to this Committee, but to 
our veterans and their families that the National Cemetery 
Administration will have as an absolute priority, national, 
tribal, and State veteran cemeteries across our land at which 
our veterans will be laid to rest in a place befitting their 
deserved honor. This is our Nation's final opportunity to honor 
our fallen veterans and to thank their families for their 
sacrifices.
    Some of my most distinct memories from my time as Adjutant 
General for the Montana National Guard have been interment 
ceremonies at which I had the honor to present our nations flag 
to family members of fellow veterans. The solemnity of that 
moment, with a family paying final tribute to the service of 
their loved one, will never be lost on me, and if confirmed, it 
is precisely that occasion, that final moment of gratitude, 
that will carry me forward as Under Secretary for Memorial 
Affairs.
    My grandfather, Virgil Van Fossan, a World War I veteran, 
is buried in a veterans cemetery, along with my grandmother, 
Marie. My father, Daniel John Quinn, a World War II and Korean 
War veteran, is buried in a Montana State veterans cemetery, 
along with two of his veteran brothers, Don and Frank. I walked 
those grounds the other day to reflect on their service and to 
once again realize the importance of our Nation's veteran 
cemeteries.
    If confirmed, you have my commitment to ensure our veteran 
cemeteries and our veteran memorial programs will forever honor 
those who have served. The actions taken today within the 
National Cemetery Administration lay the foundation for our 
ability to provide a final resting place and lasting tribute to 
their service and sacrifice.
    I am truly humbled to be considered to serve as the Under 
Secretary for Memorial Affairs, and I thank Secretary McDonough 
and President Biden for this nomination. I ask for your support 
in allowing me to join with you and all our dedicated VA 
professionals, especially those within the National Cemetery 
Administration, in ensuring our veterans are honored and 
remembered for their selfless service.
    Thank you again, Mr. Chairman, and members of the 
Committee. I look forward to your questions.
    Chairman Tester. Thank you, General Quinn.
    I am going to start with an apology to Ms. Donaghy. I 
renamed you, but what the heck. You can reclaim your old name 
back, and you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                 STATEMENT OF MARYANNE DONAGHY

    Ms. Donaghy. Thank you. Chairman Tester, Ranking Member 
Moran, and to the distinguished members of this Committee, I 
thank you for your time today, and I approach this Committee 
with a deep respect for its role in ensuring that our Nation 
fulfills its obligation to serve our veterans in recognition of 
the sacrifices that it takes to serve in the Armed Forces.
    I thank you for your consideration of my nomination, and 
for the advice and thoughts that the members of this Committee 
and its staff have provided during this process. I commit to 
maintaining that dialog if I am confirmed.
    I would like to acknowledge my family, my husband of 36 
years, Andrew, who is with me today. We have three sons, a 
daughter-in-law, and another who will be a daughter-in-law in 
10 days: Hank and his wife Jill; Andrew and his fiancee, Kait, 
and my youngest son, Connell, who is in California. Hank and 
Andrew are with me today. I would also like to acknowledge my 
mom, Mary McGeehan, who I am sure is watching this hearing now. 
There are many forces that have brought me here today, but 
fundamentally it is family, and I thank them for their love and 
support.
    I am humbled and honored to be nominated to be the 
Assistant Secretary for Accountability and Whistleblower 
Protection at the VA. I approach this position from a deep 
personal belief that aligns with the principles that our 
President and the Secretary have set for the VA, that serving 
our veterans is this country's most sacred obligation.
    For me, this belief is rooted in a love of my country, but 
it is cemented by the personal experience of being a military 
family. My son, Henry, is a Lieutenant Commander in the U.S. 
Navy, and serves on submarines. My son, Andrew, is a veteran, 
having served as an Infantry Officer in the Marine Corps. My 
father served in the Army, stationed in Germany in the late 
50's. As a young Marine, my father-in-law fought in the Battle 
of Iwo Jima. His father also enlisted in the Marines at a very 
young age, fought in World War I, and was wounded at the Battle 
of Belleau Wood.
    I know the sacrifices of deployments, the character that it 
takes, and the life-altering experiences that come with having 
served. I will bring this perspective to everything that I do 
if I am confirmed. It is why I am here, and I would be very 
grateful for the opportunity to work for the mission of the VA.
    Secretary McDonough has communicated his priorities for the 
VA and emphasized his commitment to a safe, inclusive, and 
empowering workplace for VA employees. He has also communicated 
that accountability is important, because failure to meet the 
standards of the VA workplace is a failure to serve veterans. I 
know that the members of this Committee share this belief. I do 
as well.
    I truly believe that the VA cannot fully meet its mission 
without continuous vigilance to ensuring that its employees, 
many of whom are veterans themselves, are empowered to do their 
jobs, and to actively participate in continuous improvement of 
the VA without fear of retaliation.
    I respect the role of oversight by this Committee, and I 
believe that through the Accountability and Whistleblower 
Protection Act, Congress has given the VA tools and structure 
to meet some of its most pressing cultural challenges. I am 
committed to the principles set forth in the act.
    I am aware that the VA's Office of Accountability and 
Whistleblower Protection has experienced significant challenges 
since its inception. I have deep and varied experience in 
investigations, implementing strategies that improve culture, 
and leading functions within organizations that are designed 
for objective and deliberate analysis of problems. I believe 
that this experience would serve me well to lead the office, 
and if confirmed, I pledge to give it my all to lead with 
integrity, objectivity, and excellence in its work product. The 
office will be committed to the protection of whistleblowers, 
and work with the Secretary to foster a culture that supports 
every employee to do their personal best job to serve our 
veterans.
    I feel humble, honored, and very lucky to have this 
potential opportunity to serve my country, the VA, but most 
important, the veterans who are owed our best. Thank you and I 
look forward to answering your questions.
    Chairman Tester. Thank you very much. Ms. Ross, you now 
have 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF PATRICIA ROSS

    Ms. Ross. Thank you, Chairman Tester, Ranking Member Moran 
and members of the Committee for the opportunity to testify 
today. I am deeply honored to be nominated by President Biden 
to serve as the Assistant Secretary of the Office of 
congressional and Legislative Affairs at VA.
    I want to thank Speaker Pelosi for introducing me today. 
She has shattered the marble ceiling with her leadership in 
Congress, but it is her dedication to honoring veterans that 
inspires me so much. It was the honor of a lifetime to join her 
at the commemorative events for the 75th anniversaries of the 
D-Day landings in Normandy and then the Battle of the Bulge.
    My time as a congressional staff member, both in the 
Speaker's personal office as well as on her leadership team, 
have provided me the opportunity to engage directly on policy 
issues impacting veterans and their families. Working on these 
important issues has allowed me to earn the trust, respect, and 
partnership of staff and members on both sides of the aisle and 
the Capitol, as well as the Veteran Service Organizations. I am 
proud of the bills that I have been a part of over the last 
decade. They have changed the lives of veterans.
    These pieces of legislation demonstrate the nature of the 
Veterans Committees--prioritizing service to those who have 
served, irrespective of partisanship, and always getting the 
job done for veterans.
    If confirmed, I have three goals: build trust and 
strengthen the partnership between VA and Congress, fulfill the 
legislative priorities of the President and Secretary, and 
honor the mission of VA.
    I join Secretary McDonough's unequivocal commitment made to 
Congress. I will continue to fight relentlessly for all 
veterans. I will work my hardest to continue honoring the 
bipartisan tradition of fulfilling our sacred obligation to 
leave no veteran behind when they return home.
    I have a unique perspective on the relationship between VA 
and Congress. I have myself been in the position of wanting 
better, more timely information from the Department, so I 
recognize and understand the frustrations felt by this 
Committee.
    I also know that VA cannot succeed without Congress. If 
confirmed, I will work within the Department to ensure the 
Committee and the Congress are seen as partners with the same 
objectives. I believe my colleagues would tell you that I have 
a reputation as an engaged listener and learner, a collaborator 
and consensus builder, and a reasonable, responsive, honest, 
and transparent partner.
    I come to the table with an understanding of the challenges 
facing VA from the perspective of the constituents who call 
your office. I know what you need to respond to their concerns, 
and if confirmed, I would be their advocate in the Department.
    My work for veterans and the family behind the uniform is 
personal. I am the proud partner, granddaughter, niece, and 
daughter of veterans. My grandfather, William Kendrick, the 
inspiring force behind my career choice and decision to move to 
D.C., took a leave of absence from Duke University in 1942 to 
enlist in the Navy and serve during the Second World War. My 
uncle, Dr. Peter Ross, is an Army retired colonel after 37 
years of service. My partner, Tim Bertocci, who joins me today, 
is a West Point graduate and served as an Army Armor Officer, 
including three deployments to Iraq, Kuwait, and the Republic 
of Korea. Tim, like so many others he served with, rely on VA. 
They are the reason for my call to serve and ensure VA is well-
positioned for all veterans.
    I would also like to thank my mom, also Nancy, and sisters, 
Michelle and Barbara, who join me today. I look forward to 
answering your questions. Thank you.
    Senator Hassan. [Presiding.] Well, thank you, all three of 
you. This is an extraordinarily distinguished panel of 
nominees, and we are lucky for your service and your 
willingness to serve. And we thank your families too, because 
this is a family affair, and it takes the whole group to 
support somebody in the roles that you have all been nominated 
for. So thank you and thank them.
    I do have a couple of questions, and as you can see, the 
Ranking Member has now come in, but we are in the middle of 
votes, so I apologize for the scattered attendance from the 
Senators.
    Major Quinn, I want to start with a question for you--Major 
General Quinn. Sorry. Under current law, in order to receive VA 
grant money for improvements, State veteran cemeteries are 
barred from interring many National Guard members and 
reservists. These National Guard servicemembers signed up to 
protect and give back to our country. That is why I joined the 
New Hampshire delegation in proposing legislation that would 
expand eligibility to help ensure that these veterans may also 
be buried at State veteran cemeteries. New Hampshire's veterans 
cemetery is one of the most beautiful places, in a beautiful 
State, and it is a place of extraordinary reverence.
    So Major General Quinn, will you commit to working with our 
office on this matter that is so incredibly important to 
Granite Staters?
    General Quinn. Senator, 28 years I have served with 
incredible women and men in the National Guard across this 
Nation. You have my commitment to work on that with your 
office, yes, ma'am.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Donaghy, I really enjoyed our conversation the other 
day. Thank you for taking the time to have it. The VA has 
routinely dismissed whistleblower claims, including 
whistleblowers at VA facilities that Granite State veterans 
rely on for their care. In March of this year, the Office of 
Special Counsel again found a VA response to a whistleblower 
complaint to be unreasonable, this time regarding allegations 
at the White River Junction Medical Center, which serves many 
Granite State veterans.
    Misconduct and poor performance allegations like the ones 
at White River Junction need to be taken seriously. This case 
is just one example where the VA failed to treat allegations 
seriously and failed to safeguard whistleblowers. The highly 
concerning pattern of the VA mishandling whistleblower 
complaints put our veterans at risk by contributing to a 
culture of silence and retaliation.
    So Ms. Donaghy, if confirmed as the Assistant Secretary of 
Accountability and Whistleblower Protection, how will you work 
to safeguard whistleblowers from retaliation and change the 
VA's culture in this area?
    Ms. Donaghy. Thank you, Senator, for that question and also 
for our conversation. I have three goals to lead the Office of 
Accountability and Whistleblower Protection, which is an office 
that I believe the Congress has given tools to fight exactly 
the problem that you are discussing.
    First it is to lead the office with integrity, with 
objectivity, and with excellence in work product. Second, to 
communicate the importance of whistleblower protection, both 
internally and externally. But tying back to that first goal, 
again, to be vigilant in executing on that principle with 
excellence in work product.
    And finally, I believe that whistleblower protection for 
misconduct and that sort of thing, that is a given in an 
organization. It is the minimum that an organization needs to 
do be fully functional. But an organization can really not 
truly meet its mission unless it protects whistleblowers and 
cultivates a culture where employees can speak up and make good 
change.
    Senator Hassan. Well, thank you for that. Will you also 
commit to reviewing the handling of whistleblower claims at 
White River Junction and working with our office in this 
matter, and any others that arise, should you be confirmed?
    Ms. Donaghy. I will commit, Senator.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. Another question for you, Ms. 
Donaghy. The Office of Accountability and Whistleblower 
Protection has a mandate to accept and investigate cases of 
wrongdoing involving senior leadership. The VA Office of 
Inspector General reported in 2019 that the office declined to 
investigate certain cases, even though they were mandated to do 
so.
    So what is your understanding of the Office of 
Accountability and Whistleblower Protection's mandate, and how 
will you prioritize holding senior leadership at the VA 
accountable, if needed?
    Ms. Donaghy. So, Senator, I commit to executing on the 
mandates of the act, according to the way the Congress intended 
that to happen, and I look at the role as being almost 
threefold: a vigilant voice for whistleblowers, which we just 
discussed in the last, but also to fulfill that independent, 
investigative role that Congress has given to this office for 
senior leader misconduct and for retaliation for whistleblowers 
by supervisors. And I commit to executing on the mandates of 
the act the way Congress intended.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you very much.
    Senator Moran. [Presiding.] Senator Hassan, thank you. 
Again, I appreciate your apology on behalf of all of us for the 
convoluted nature of this hearing. Senator Tester, or Chairman 
Tester, will return and I will go vote on the second one. He is 
voting on the first one and the second one. But thank you. I am 
sorry I was not here for your introductions, and I am pleased 
that you are present with us today and willing to serve 
America's veterans. And so I thank you for your public service 
and your future public service.
    Let me start with Ms. Ross, in part, what I ask a number of 
our nominees at the Department of Veterans' Affairs. My time in 
Congress, which included 14 years in the House and on the House 
Veterans' Affairs Committee, I received the best direction for 
what I ought to be doing in the job when I visit with Kansans 
and look at the casework that comes into our office. It comes 
to me sometimes in person, but often my tremendous staff in 
Kansas is out trying to solve a problem that has been created, 
or a problem that has not been solved by the Department.
    The majority of our casework in our office involves 
veterans, so it is a significant component, and it is actually 
one of the most meaningful parts of the job I have as a United 
States Senator is solving individual problems for veterans.
    Do you have ideas, Ms. Ross, on how the VA and Congress can 
better address casework from both a process perspective and 
also just in addressing specific issues? I do not know exactly 
what your experience is with the Speaker's office, but you 
surely are familiar with casework. Is there something that you 
all could do better, or we could do better to solve problems?
    Ms. Ross. Senator, thank you for that question. It is an 
important one I know a bit about. I worked in both her personal 
and leadership office. I have answered the letters, taken the 
calls, had the meetings with constituents and community 
leaders, and it is that input you get from your district 
offices, your caseworkers, and your staff that trickles up the 
idea to a bill. And it is that input and that feedback that is 
so imperative in terms of, in my view, the roles and 
responsibilities of the Assistant Secretary.
    The Secretary has made it clear to me on the importance of 
the relationship between VA and Congress as mission critical. 
He places so much significance on congressional input that he 
picked a congressional staffer for the role. And in my 
perspective, I understand the pressures and the constituent 
interest to that very granular detail you hear back from 
veterans and constituents in your State, and how that is the 
issues and those are the challenges you want to address.
    In terms of that information, VA benefits from it. VA 
benefits from that input and informs better policy. To me, I 
think, if confirmed, it would be my goal to better improve that 
connection between that feedback and VA decisionmaking, and in 
terms of also the, if confirmed, raising these priorities 
consistently throughout the Department so that a global view of 
what is going on the ground is trickled up.
    Senator Moran. Thank you very much for that answer. In 
addition to that, Ms. Ross, I would suggest to you that in many 
instances it appears to me that the VA is interested in solving 
my problem--let's take care of it--but what that then misses is 
even if we have solved the problem for a veteran, many of the 
experiences or challenges a veteran faces is something that is 
experienced by other veterans. And so it is not just a piece of 
casework. There is a systematic or systemic aspect to casework 
that the VA also needs to address, in many of those 
circumstances. That makes sense to you, I assume.
    Ms. Ross. It does, Senator. And I would say I will echo 
that it is imperative to ensure that within the Department that 
Committee and Congress are seen as partners with the same 
objectives.
    Senator Moran. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Donaghy, in your opinion--let me set the stage for this 
question. The VA recently announced the suspension of Section 
714 of the Accountability and Whistleblower's Protection Act 
for over 200,000 employees represented by AFGE. This provision 
gave the Secretary enhanced authority to carry out discipline 
for poor performance and misconduct, Section 714 did.
    In your opinion, does this action make it easier or harder 
to stamp out misconduct, including whistleblower retaliation?
    Ms. Donaghy. Thank you, Senator. I believe that with the 
Whistleblower and Accountability Act, including the changes to 
714, that Congress has given us the tools, both for frontline 
correction through investigations and the structure for the VA 
to move forward. I also believe that it is a catalyst for long-
term cultural change and that the VA must and should execute on 
the act as Congress intended.
    Senator Moran. Thank you. I am running out of time. I am 
going to see if I can get a question in for General Quinn. The 
VA strategy to provide veterans access to national or State 
veterans cemeteries relies on targeting the Veterans Cemetery 
Grants Programs to reach the most veterans with unmet need. A 
2009 GAO report found that the data NCA uses for awarding these 
grants lacks precision.
    If confirmed, what would you do to evaluate the current 
grant award process and make certain that the VA has the best 
data possible to drive those grant decisions?
    General Quinn. Senator, thanks for the question, and 
certainly, if confirmed, one of the first things I will look 
at--I believe in the importance of the State and the tribal 
grant program, in addition to the National Cemetery Program. 
One of the first actions I will take is to look at how we 
better serve those veterans for our State cemeteries as well as 
the tribal cemeteries.
    Senator Moran. Thank you. General Quinn, I would indicate 
to you that I think that often the memorial affairs aspect of 
the Department is forgotten sometimes by Congress, perhaps by 
others. And I just would offer to you that if you are confirmed 
and in the position I look forward to working with you to be a 
voice for your concerns and how we could improve how we care 
for our veterans no longer living, and their families.
    General Quinn. Senator, it is the last opportunity for us 
to thank that veteran and their family for the sacrifice, so I 
look forward to that, if confirmed. Thank you.
    Senator Moran. Thank you. Thank you for your service.
    General Quinn. Thank you.
    Senator Moran. Senator Boozman?

                      SENATOR JOHN BOOZMAN

    Senator Boozman. Thank you very much, and thank you all so 
much for your willingness to serve. All of you have excellent 
reputations, and I think we look forward to working with you in 
the future, so that is good.
    Ms. Ross, the Office of congressional and Legislative 
Affairs assists Members of Congress and our staffs in all 
matters involving the VA. As you know from your own experience, 
the relationship between Congress and the office that you will 
be representing is so incredibly important. If confirmed, will 
you commit to working with staffs on both sides of the aisle 
and making sure that we stay informed on the workings within 
the VA?
    Ms. Ross. Senator, absolutely.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. And I think I am going to get 
to meet with some of you all. Well, I am going to meet with all 
of you, either on the phone or in person, so I look forward to 
doing that, and really just delve a little bit deeper into just 
various issues. But again, I look forward to voting for you, 
voting you out of Committee, and I think that you are going to 
do great.
    One thing, Ms. Ross, I will give you your first assignment. 
I want you to tell those at the VA that I am very concerned 
about a bill that we are going to have this week, next week I 
guess, and we have asked for a score. We have asked for the 
VA's recommendations as to how we would implement it, what 
would happen if we did it. We are talking about a bill that 
potentially could increase--I am the Ranking Member on the 
Military Construction in VA Appropriations--a bill that could 
potentially increase the VA budget by 50 percent. But the VA 
has not been forthcoming. They will not come over and visit 
with us and tell us how they would implement that.
    So, as you can see, I am very upset about that. We need a 
score. We need the VA to weigh in. This is major stuff.
    I have co-sponsored two of the bills within the bill, and 
it is good legislation. Two of the bills I have not co-
sponsored because I do not understand the effects. But I do 
understand, as Ranking Member on the Appropriations Committee 
that funds this, that if it truly did cost--we increased by 50 
percent, then we would have real concerns as to how that would 
affect the rest of the VA programs and how they would implement 
that.
    So that is your first job. And as you can see, being around 
here is not easy, but we do appreciate your willingness to 
serve. And I thank all of you all, and I really do look forward 
to working with you in the future. Thank you.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you, Senator.
    Chairman Tester. Mr. Ranking Member, are you going to 
recognize me? I just want to make sure.
    Senator Moran. I recognize the Chairman of the full 
Committee.
    Chairman Tester. [Presiding.] Thank you very much. I 
appreciate that very much. I just want to say thanks to Maggie 
Hassan and thank you, Senator Moran, for doing this Committee. 
We are in a series, as you guys already know, of a couple of 
votes, which are also very important.
    This is for all the panelists, and we will just go from 
left to right, starting with you, General Quinn. What is your 
motivation to serve in the position to which you want to get 
confirmed?
    General Quinn. Senator, 37 years, nearly 37 years serving 
alongside fellow servicemembers and the ability or the 
opportunity to move forward and serve veterans who have served, 
that I have served with. That is the motivation. It is another 
calling to serve, and, Senator, I believe in selfless service.
    Chairman Tester. Ms. Donaghy?
    Ms. Donaghy. Thank you, Senator. For me it is personal. I 
have always been committed to veterans' issues, but with some 
of the family ties you heard about in my opening Statement, it 
becomes very personal, and it is why I am here.
    From a professional perspective, I have deep experience in 
the kinds of issues that the Office of Accountability and 
Whistleblower Protection is facing. I believe from that 
experience I can make a difference. And frankly, at this part 
of my career, my heart is meeting my career experience, and I 
would just be very grateful for the opportunity.
    Chairman Tester. Ms. Ross?
    Ms. Ross. Mr. Chairman, my work for veterans and the family 
behind the uniform is personal. My grandfather is a World War 
II veteran. My partner, who is here today with me, is a post-9/
11 veteran, a West Point graduate. He is enrolled in VA. And it 
is an honor to be considered for a position that might impact 
VA for the future, an organization he is going to have to rely 
on. They are my inspiration and call to serve.
    Chairman Tester. Thank you all for that answer.
    General Quinn, last year we passed a bill that I sponsored, 
increasing the State, county, and tribal cemetery grants from 
$5 million to $10 million. The purpose of this was to give more 
assistance to entities wanting to provide improved burial 
options for our Nation's veterans.
    Could you describe some of the challenges rural veterans 
have in identifying burial options close to their families?
    General Quinn. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. As you know and are 
aware, 94 percent of our veterans live within 75 miles of 
either a national, State, or tribal cemetery, but as mentioned 
before, those State and tribal cemeteries, the more that we can 
provide those burial options, those places of honor for our 
veterans across this Nation is critical. And that is where I 
think we can expand upon State and tribal cemeteries as we look 
forward, as well as our national cemeteries.
    Chairman Tester. General Quinn, how do you ensure that 
rural and tribal cemeteries stay competitive in the grant 
process?
    General Quinn. Mr. Chairman, I believe it is through 
communication. When I took over Department of Military Affairs 
in Montana, one of the first things that I did is went around 
the State and visited with those who were receiving Homeland 
Security or FEMA grants. I would take, if confirmed, that same 
action to ensure that our States and tribal members understand 
the grant-making process, what it takes to get a grant and what 
it takes to build that place of honor for our veterans.
    Chairman Tester. I am going to close this out because the 
questions have been asked. I just want to say to you three and 
to Mr. Remy, before you, thank you very much for your 
willingness to serve. All three of these positions are very 
important positions. They come with a lot of responsibilities. 
And I think that your commitment to do what is best for the 
veterans of this country is what all the people around this 
table want. They want to make sure our veterans get what they 
deserve, what they have earned.
    And I will tell you, each one of your jobs needs a 
particular skill set, and I will tell you that I think that all 
three of you are up to that task. And I think that given the 
opportunity to do what is right in the Veterans Affairs 
Department, I think you guys will rise to the occasion. So I 
appreciate your willingness to step forward.
    Before I have the closing comments here I just want to say 
something, and you guys are probably sitting here going, you 
know what? We are in a confirmation hearing and you guys are 
talking about bills that are flying by, and toxic exposure, and 
all this stuff.
    We have a toxic exposure hearing next week. It is a big 
bill. As you folks know that have been in the service, toxic 
exposure is something that has been around for a long time, 
since mustard gas, or World War I, actually, but more 
significantly during Agent Orange and now the burn pits. I 
shouldn't say ``more significantly''--equally as significant.
    This is an issue that the VA has not tackled or Congress 
has not tackled it either. There have been many bills. My 
Ranking Member, Senator Boozman, Senator Sullivan, Senator 
Tillis--go around the table. We have all had a bite at this 
apple. I think there is genuine belief that we need to get 
toxic exposure solved. Why? Because we do not want Congress 
making decisions on toxic exposure. We want the VA. And we want 
the VA to have a process, and we want them to have a process 
that does not break the bank but does right by our veterans. 
And so that is why there has been so much conversation about 
this.
    I would just say to the Ranking Member and to Senator 
Boozman both, who are incredibly good friends of mine, that we 
will work together and get this bill done in a way that meets 
the needs of veterans and that will not break the bank. That is 
my commitment to you guys, and to this Committee.
    So next week it is going to be fun. We will have some great 
conversations, and I look forward to it. And in the meantime I 
look forward to working with both of you to make sure that we 
get this bill across the finish line.
    So I want to thank this Committee for its commitment to 
bipartisanship, not only for the nominees that are here today 
but every other issue that comes before this. I want to thank 
the nominees for their willingness to serve.
    And for the information of all the members who may still be 
on, or their staff who are listening, questions for the record 
need to be in by 5 p.m. tomorrow to the committee clerk. And 
those questions are the questions regarding these four 
nominees. And the record of the hearing will remain open until 
that same time for any additional comments that folks may want 
to make.
    Senator Moran. Mr. Chairman, would you recognize me?
    Chairman Tester. I would recognize you with pleasure, 
Senator Moran.
    Senator Moran. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Thank you for your 
comments about the importance of toxic exposure and the need 
for Congress to act. That is a shared value. And thank you for 
your comments about not breaking the bank. That is certainly an 
issue. But I would put it in different terms, trying to make 
certain that decisions we make that require the VA to spend 
money for one veteran does not diminish the services for 
another veteran, and also to make certain that work product we 
conclude our deliberations on is operationally workable within 
the Department of Veterans Affairs, and particularly the 
previous panel had--Mr. Remy had questions about providing 
views and estimates and direction for the Committee from the 
Department of Veterans Affairs. And it is something that has 
been lacking. In the meeting we had in this room a week or so 
ago, the VA provided--I mean, they were neutral. They were 
silent on the value of the things we were discussing.
    And I know the VA is working on their own efforts on 
determining what should be done on toxic exposure, and I again 
think that we have a number of issues that need to be resolved 
before we are ready to make a conclusion in regard to what a VA 
toxic exposure bill should look like. And one of the most 
important things to me is that we have the input from the 
Department before we make decisions that dramatically affect 
them, but more importantly, dramatically affect the veterans 
that we want them to serve, and they do serve.
    So, Mr. Chairman, we have said this so many times, and I 
say it again. It is true, and it is not rhetoric. It is not 
just political pandering. We will work this out. We will work 
together. This is an effort to make sure that the Republican 
members and the Democratic members have an opportunity to get 
this right as best we know how.
    Senator Boozman. Mr. Chairman, I would echo what both of 
you said. I have got complete confidence in you. We have worked 
together on a number of bills, and you have worked with several 
others, and we can be very, very proud of what the Committee 
has done.
    This is something that is so, so very important, and so I 
think all of us want to get the same thing. And again, I 
understand, you know, in the sense of not breaking the bank, 
you know, but I agree with Senator Moran, and I agree with you 
too, in the sense that you do not mean that in the sense of we 
want to go on the cheap, by any means. We want to do whatever 
is necessary. This is a contract that we have signed with our 
veterans, and we want to give them the benefits they and their 
families deserve.
    But it is a high-stakes thing, and I am disappointed that 
the VA simply refuses to show up and respond to, you know, how 
this is, you know, such a dramatic thing, would it affect them, 
and making sure, you know, when you are talking about--and we 
do not know yet--but when you are talking about significant 
expense and maybe affecting--we raised VA funding last year 12 
percent, I think. We can be so, so very proud of that.
    But on the other hand, again, we are talking about 
significant things going on that we need their input. That was 
my frustration.
    Chairman Tester. There is no doubt about that, and I will 
just say this. We had Mr. Remy up here that talked about the 
JEC. And the truth of the matter is, if we are going to solve 
things like Agent Orange exposure, burn pit exposure, we need 
to stop it from happening to begin with. And that is where that 
position is so important, to be able to talk to the DOD from a 
VA standpoint, saying, ``All right, guys. If you know this was 
coming down, you know, get the incinerators instead of the burn 
pits, and get this done so we are not exposing our veterans.''
    I will say this, so that you guys know where I am coming 
from. If we are going to get the information we need, we have 
got to get this bill out, because everybody will be in neutral 
if we do not. By the time we get this bill to a point--and I 
have made this commitment to the Ranking Member--I am not 
bringing it to the floor unless Jerry Moran is OK with bringing 
it to the floor.
    So if we are going to get the VA to step up, if we are 
going to get OMB to step up, if we are going to get the 
Congressional Budget Office to step up, if we are going to get 
our staff to step up, if we are going to get everybody on the 
same end of this rope, pulling in the same direction, I think 
we have got to set the mark in the sand. We have got to lay the 
line down. And I really do believe that. I think if we do not, 
come October, you and I and Jerry Moran and everybody else on 
this Committee that thinks this is such an important issue, we 
will be saying, ``Gosh, this is really an important issue,'' 
and we will not have put the ball forward.
    So, you know, trust is an amazing thing, and it is what we 
have far too little of in this Congress, whether you are 
talking the Senate or the House. The three of us, I believe 
there is a trust here. And I can tell you that because of that 
trust--and it was there with the previous Chairman too, Johnny 
Isakson--because of that trust, I think we can do some good 
things. But we all know that things do not happen by accident 
around here. We have got to push the envelope, we have got to 
demand excellence, just like they do in the military, and just 
like we demand of our VA, by the way, and we have got to make 
sure people deliver. And I do not think it is going to be 
possible to do that unless we get the ballot.
    One last thing. John Scott Hannon--big bill. Mental health 
bill. Incredibly important bill. We passed it out with all the 
questions asked. We got the questions answered after it was out 
of Committee. Same thing with Deborah Sampson. The fastest-
growing part of the VA is women veterans. We passed it out, we 
got the questions answered, and we got the bill passed. Both of 
them were successful. And I would say one thing. On Blue Water 
Navy, CBO came in with an estimate that would make--well, maybe 
not my hair curl, but everybody else's hair curl. It was a big 
estimate. They are about 75 percent wrong. And I think--in 
fact, I don't think, I know, because, quite frankly, the chap 
who shot from the hip on the cost of this was shooting from the 
hip. I am not being negative. I am not going after him. They 
have got a job to do, and it is a hard job.
    Go ahead, Jerry.
    Senator Moran. Chairman, thank you. I had a conversation 
today with Secretary McDonough by phone on this topic, and I 
would use this opportunity. I know that none of our panelists, 
none of the folks who are here pursuing confirmation have the 
ability to speak for the Department of Veterans Affairs, and so 
I am not asking that. But I know that the Legislative Affairs 
folks are in the room, and I cannot imagine that the Secretary 
and his team are not paying attention to today's hearing.
    What you just said, it is one more opportunity for us to 
send the message to the Secretary and the Department that we 
need your help, and you have an opportunity to help us now, as 
the Chairman intends to move a bill. So please engage with us 
to try to achieve my goal of making sure that we have a bill 
that is operationally functional for the Department and does 
not detract from any veterans who are currently receiving 
services by creating a different way that the money is going to 
be spent that we provided.
    I would use this moment to compliment Senator Boozman, or 
highlight. He is certainly a senior member of this Committee, 
but he is also perhaps more important than either one of us, 
although you may be on the Committee that funds the Department 
of Veterans Affairs. But Senator Boozman has been the Chairman 
of MILCON VA, the Appropriations Subcommittee, and is now the 
ranking Republican. So he has interest in this topic beyond 
just being an authorizer. There are consequences to all three 
of us who are appropriators, ultimately, for the Department of 
Veterans Affairs.
    And finally, Mr. Chairman, I would say that while there is 
always a belief that Republicans and Democrats do not talk 
together, we do not associate with each other, we never work 
things out, we are doing it in public today, in front of all of 
you, and in front of whoever else is listening. So we do have 
conversations, and they are not always this public. But I am 
delighted that you started this conversation, and again, we are 
interested in solving problems and we are interested in helping 
you accomplish that.
    Chairman Tester. I would second the comments you just made, 
and hopefully folks above are listening, and we can move 
forward on this.
    I apologize to the nominees for having to listen to the 
conversations of trying to get legislation done, but 
nonetheless, once we get done with our work then you guys have 
got to implement it and get it done, and get it done right. So 
we thank you for being here.
    With that, this hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 5:04 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

                                APPENDIX

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