[Senate Hearing 117-179]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                     S. Hrg. 117-179

                       NOMINATION OF JAMES KVAAL
                      TO SERVE AS UNDER SECRETARY
                              OF EDUCATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                                 OF THE

                    COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EDUCATION,
                          LABOR, AND PENSIONS

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                                   ON

 EXAMINING THE NOMINATION OF JAMES RICHARD KVAAL, OF MASSACHUSETTS, TO 
                    BE UNDER SECRETARY OF EDUCATION

                               __________

                             APRIL 15, 2021

                               __________

 Printed for the use of the Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and 
                                Pensions
                                
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        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                              __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
46-759 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022                     
          
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          COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EDUCATION, LABOR, AND PENSIONS

                    PATTY MURRAY, Washington, Chair
BERNIE SANDERS (I), Vermont          RICHARD BURR, North Carolina, 
ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania       Ranking Member
TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin             RAND PAUL, M.D., Kentucky
CHRISTOPHER S. MURPHY, Connecticut   SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine
TIM KAINE, Virginia                  BILL CASSIDY, M.D., Louisiana
MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire         LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
TINA SMITH, Minnesota                MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  ROGER MARSHALL, M.D., Kansas
BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico            TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado          MITT ROMNEY, Utah
                                     TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama
                                     JERRY MORAN, Kansas

                     Evan T. Schatz, Staff Director
               David P. Cleary, Republican Staff Director
                  John Righter, Deputy Staff Director
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                               STATEMENTS

                        THURSDAY, APRIL 15, 2021

                                                                   Page

                           Committee Members

Murray, Hon. Patty, Chair, Committee on Health, Education, Labor, 
  and Pensions, Opening statement................................     1
Burr, Hon. Richard, Ranking Member, a U.S. Senator from the State 
  of North Carolina, Opening statement...........................     2

                               Witnesses

Kvaal, James, of Massachusetts, to be Under Secretary of 
  Education......................................................     6
    Prepared statement...........................................     8

                          ADDITIONAL MATERIAL

Statements, articles, publications, letters, etc.
Murray, Hon. Patty:
    Letters of support for James Kvaal, of Massachusetts, to be 
      Under Secretary of Education............................... 29-36

 
                       NOMINATION OF JAMES KVAAL
                      TO SERVE AS UNDER SECRETARY
                              OF EDUCATION

                              ----------                              


                        Thursday, April 15, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
       Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m., in 
Room 430, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Patty Murray, 
Chair of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Murray [presiding], Baldwin, Kaine, 
Hassan, Smith, Rosen, Hickenlooper, Burr, Thune, Cassidy, 
Braun, and Tuberville.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MURRAY

    The Chair. [Technical problems.] The Senate Health, 
Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee will please come to 
order. Today we are holding a hearing on the nomination of 
James Kvaal to serve as Under Secretary of Education. Senator 
Burr and I will each have an opening statement and then I will 
turn it over to Congressman George Miller to introduce Mr. 
Kvaal. After Mr. Kvaal's testimony, Senators will have five 
minutes each for a round of questions. And I will stay for a 
second round if any Senators have any remaining questions.
    Before we begin, I want to walk through the COVID-19 safety 
protocols in place. We will follow the advice of the Attending 
Physician and the Sergeant-at-Arms in conducting this hearing. 
We are, again, all very grateful to our Clerks and everyone who 
has worked hard to set this up and help everyone stay safe and 
healthy. Committee Members are seated at least six feet apart, 
and some Senators are participating by video conference. And 
while we were unable to have the hearing fully open to the 
public or media for in-person attendance, live video is 
available on our Committee website at help.senate.gov. And if 
you are in need of accommodations, including closed captioning, 
you can reach out to the Committee or the Office of 
Congressional Accessibility Services.
    We received James Kvaal's formal nomination on February 
22nd, his office of Government Ethics paperwork, including his 
public financial disclosures and ethics agreement, on February 
24th, and his Committee paperwork on March 26th. Mr. Kvaal, 
thank you so much for joining us today. It is nice to be able 
to see you here in person. And I am pleased to welcome also 
your wife, Stephanie, and your mother Martha, who I understand 
is with you as well. I think everyone here is encouraged by the 
progress our Nation continues to make toward ending the COVID-
19 crisis, but we are also well aware of the challenge before 
us isn't just ending this pandemic but rebuilding stronger and 
fairer. Because while this pandemic has made life harder for 
students pursuing a higher education by disrupting their 
classrooms and dorms and challenging their mental health and 
upending the economy and creating uncertainty for students 
already struggling to pay their tuition and rent and food and 
other basic needs, the painful reality is higher education was 
at a crisis point well before the pandemic struck.
    Before COVID-19, student debt was already historically 
high. The cost of higher education was already relentlessly on 
the rise. The roots of systemic racism were already deep and 
damaging, and campus sexual assault was already an epidemic. 
And after COVID-19, these problems will remain as urgent as 
ever. That is why it is so important we have leaders like Dr. 
Kvaal at the Department of Education who have the drive and the 
experience to tackle them. As President of the Institute for 
College Access and Success, Mr. Kvaal has testified before 
Congress and led the public discussion on issues like 
strengthening Pell Grants, simplifying the FAFSA, supporting 
student loan borrowers, and increasing state and Federal 
investments in higher education. And in his previous work under 
President Obama as Deputy Under Secretary of Education and 
later as Deputy Director of the Domestic Policy Council, Mr. 
Kvaal helped to implement one of the largest overhauls of 
student aid, which ended wasteful subsidies to banks in our 
student loan system, and massively expanded the Pell Grant 
program to create the College Scorecard, which provides 
students more information about the outcomes of the schools 
they are considering, and to develop the gainful employment 
rule, which protected students and taxpayers from predatory, 
for profit colleges that left students with debt they could not 
repay.
    Given everything the previous administration did to 
undermine this critical work over the last four years, 
President Biden could not have picked a better candidate to get 
things back on track. I have no doubt that when confirmed, Mr. 
Kvaal will fight for students and against special interests 
because it is what he is always done. Mr. Kvaal's record shows 
he is clearly qualified to serve as Under Secretary of 
Education, and I am pleased to support his nomination. I also 
look forward to working with Mr. Kvaal to make sure higher 
education is affordable, accessible, accountable, and safe for 
every student.
    Finally, I seek unanimous consent to put on the record 
eight letters in support of Mr. Kvaal's nomination from more 
than 80 education advocacy groups, educators, and colleges and 
universities. So ordered.
    [The information referred to can be found on pages 29-36]

    The Chair. With that, I will recognize Ranking Member Burr 
for his opening remarks.

                   OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BURR

    Senator Burr. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for 
scheduling this nomination hearing for James Kvaal. Welcome, 
and to your wife and to your mother, again. I hope you are both 
proud. You should be. I want to thank the Chair for agreeing to 
hold this hearing, to consider the nomination of someone who, 
if confirmed, will hold arguably the third most powerful 
position in the Department of Education. If confirmed, Mr. 
Kvaal will be the third in line of succession after the 
Secretary and Deputy Secretary. And you would be the most 
senior political official in the department overseeing programs 
and policies related to higher education, vocational adult 
education, and the White House initiative on historically Black 
colleges and universities. Most critically, you would be 
trusted to manage the approximate $1.6 trillion student loan 
debt portfolio managed by the Office of Federal Student Aid.
    Therefore, I look forward to this hearing and to hearing 
more about your vision for Federal student aid and the 
appropriate role for the Federal Government moving forward in 
higher education and the workforce. Mr. Kvaal, you come before 
this Committee with significant experience in higher education, 
including your time in the Obama administration. However, your 
work within the President Obama's White House and in the 
Department of Education raises some concerns for me because it 
shows that you believe solutions should come from unelected 
administrative appointees rather than the hard work of Members 
of Congress elected by the people negotiating lasting 
solutions. There is the college rating plan, the borrowed 
defense rule, and the gainful employment fiasco.
    The first, gainful employment rule finalized during the 
Obama administration was struck down by the Federal courts as 
being arbitrary and capricious. Undeterred, you tried again 
taking two words that had been in law for decades without being 
tied to consequences or accountability and statute and 
developed a 900 page regulation of extraordinary complexity 
aimed at certain institutions over others, which was inherently 
politically motivated to hurt for profit institutions when not 
for profits, with similarly bad measures, were left free to 
operate.
    These regulatory efforts, which by all accounts were driven 
in large part by you, have set off a proverbial seesaw for 
higher education regulation from administration to 
administration. That is not good for our country and I hope you 
will agree that lasting solutions come through the legislative 
process. Finally, I want to carefully point out your close 
proximity to potentially unethical conduct at the department 
under the Obama administration. Proximity being the key word 
here, not central involvement, otherwise this would be a 
different conversation.
    Official emails being sent to and from private emails, 
close collaboration with short sellers on market moving 
information, and an administration official using his old 
advocacy organizations and their emails to try to hide the 
public scrutiny in furtherance of a partisan objective. Noting 
that no charges were ultimately made, I am going to give you 
the benefit of the doubt given your background in higher 
education. But as I suggested, concerning allegations raised 
against Cindy Marten, I know that my colleagues on the other 
side of the aisle would be screaming from the rooftops about a 
nomination of someone who would had been involved even remotely 
with providing deliberative and confidential regulatory 
information to short sellers on Wall Street.
    I am glad their hypocrisy in evaluating nominees has ended, 
and I hope it stays that way when the next Republican President 
comes to office. You have deep expertise in higher education, 
and with the Secretary and deputy Secretary with little to no 
higher education policy experience, you are going to play a key 
role in all these areas. My staff has assured me that while you 
are a committed partisan, you are also enjoyable to work with 
and willing to listen and work on compromises. I do want to 
work with you on these issues, if confirmed.
    That said, I want to be clear about some worries that I 
have about proposals by some of my colleagues on the other side 
of the aisle, as well as suggestions within the Biden 
administration to cancel extraordinary amounts of outstanding 
Federal loan debt. I firmly believe this is the wrong solution 
to what I think most of us agree are challenges faced by many 
current and future student loan borrowers. Higher Education 
Act, or HEA, was enacted in 1965. Are we supposed to believe 
that for the last 56 years that the HEA has been in place the 
Secretary has been unable to cancel vast amounts of debt for 
every single borrower in the United States this whole time and 
we just didn't know about it until now? Not the case. Mr. 
Kvaal, I must be honest with you and with everyone else on this 
Committee, this does not pass the laugh test.
    Importantly, I believe the negative implications of 
unilaterally canceling outstanding Federal student loan debt 
would be more than enough to deem this policy bad. For 
starters, this has a one-time cost of as much as $1 trillion, 
shifting the burden to unsuspecting taxpayers. Many of those 
taxpayers paid their student loan debt. It is also a regressive 
policy, meaning it would benefit the rich, mostly people who 
are already earning more because of their college education. It 
would be a huge gift, particularly for Americans with student 
loan debt from graduate school who disproportionately earn 
higher incomes.
    It is also a very poorly targeted use of Federal resources 
that does nothing to benefit the more than 200 million 
Americans that do not have student loan debt and never attended 
college. Finally, the promise of canceling mass amounts of 
student loan creates a significant moral hazard. When borrowers 
take out student loans from the Federal Government, there is an 
expectation that loan will be repaid. When the Government 
relieves and forgives that expectation for borrowers, this 
creates a new expectation that future borrowers will receive 
the same treatment. So in two years, we would expect to see 
another massive pile of debt and a whole new group of students 
demanding forgiveness.
    Therefore students and institutions will change their 
behavior and make riskier choices because they expect that they 
will never have to repay these loans. So we know what will 
happen if we cancel tens of thousands of dollars' worth of 
student loans for individual borrowers. What will stop schools 
from raising tuition and digging an even deeper hole? Finally--
excuse me. Most important part, James. Without institutional 
accountability, will you be asking the American taxpayer to 
foot another loan forgiveness scheme in every 5, 10, 15, 20 
years? Where does it end?
    In addition to asking colleges and universities to play 
their part to stem this debt spiral, I have a better idea for a 
loan repayment. A few weeks ago, my colleague and I, Angus 
King, reintroduced the Repay Act. I know you are familiar with 
it. Instead of making students choose between nine unique loan 
repayment plans, our plan would allow borrowers to choose 
between two simple plans. The first is what most borrowers 
already pay now, a fixed 10 year repayment option. The second 
is a simplified, income driven repayment plan. It 
simultaneously accounts for how much a student borrowed and how 
much they currently earn. Very low income borrowers or 
borrowers who make below 150 percent of Federal poverty line 
would have a zero dollar payment. Borrowers with more modest 
income would still have a low monthly payment, equal to 10 
percent of their earnings above the 150 percent of poverty 
line.
    Higher income borrowers would pay 10 percent on the first 
$25,000 dollars of their discretionary income, and 15 percent 
on the income above that. Finally, our plan would provide loan 
forgiveness after 20 years of payments for undergraduate 
students and 25 years for graduate students. I believe the 
Repay Act is a commonsense solution to our very overcomplicated 
student loan repayment system. It is fair to students. More 
importantly, it is fair to taxpayers.
    Mr. Kvaal, if confirmed, I look forward to working with you 
on this pragmatic bipartisan solution and others, and I hope 
you will do the same. Thank you for the time we spent together 
this morning. I believe that we can work with suggestions of 
the past that can legislatively make it through the 
difficulties of the U.S. Senate today, that are not impossible, 
if in fact we form a partnership to do it. I thank the Chair.
    The Chair. Thank you, Ranking Member Burr. And now I am 
going to turn it over to Congressman Miller, who will introduce 
Mr. Kvaal.
    Congressman Miller. Thank you, Madam Chair, Ranking Member, 
and the Members of the Committee. I am honored to be here 
today. I am delighted to be here today to have the opportunity 
to introduce James Kvaal. A former member of my Committee 
staff, James is before you today and President Biden's nominee 
to serve as Under Secretary of Education. While I am sorry that 
I am unable to be with you in person, I am pleased that James's 
wife and mother, as you have already noted Madam Chair, are in 
the hearing room and James is currently on paternity leave. His 
3 month old son, Joseph is at home with James's father. And I 
should say hello to his father.
    As Members of this Committee know, colleges, universities, 
trade schools, and graduate schools play key roles in helping 
American workers access skills that lead to middle class income 
and a better life. As Buzz Lightyear used to say, to infinity 
and beyond, for these people. Madam Chair and Ranking Member 
Burr, you know this from the outstanding higher education 
systems in your home States of Washington and in North 
Carolina, and many Members of the Committee know this from the 
state systems that they run there, the university and college 
systems, and the community college systems.
    These programs are excellent and can be found in so many 
states across the country, but too many students face rising 
cost, ever growing debt, widening inequality. On top of that 
those problems, the pandemic led many students to postpone 
college, impaired the learning of some enrolled, and devastated 
state and college budgets. The Under Secretary of Education 
will play a key role in finding solutions to these problems by 
coordinating policies and programs related to Federal student 
aid, higher education, career and technical education.
    James Kvaal is prepared to meet the moment with laser 
focus, making sure that all Americans can access affordable 
higher education, free of discrimination and that they can 
achieve their educational goals and aspirations. For more than 
two decades, he has worked in the public service with the 
overriding goal of helping more Americans from all backgrounds 
graduate from college. In addition to his work on the House 
Education Labor Committee, he has been a staff member here in 
the Senate and served two Presidents in the White House in the 
U.S. Department of Education. James is a gain--additional 
perspectives from his time on the faculty at the University of 
Michigan, and in law school at Harvard. That is hard for me to 
say from the West Coast. But now--he was the President of the 
Institute for College Access and Success, a nonprofit 
organization that has--that he has degrees from Stanford and 
Harvard.
    The question is not about his competency, the question is 
really about his drive and his determination to improve the 
higher education system and all education systems in this 
country. I know from my time working with him, he cares deeply 
about facts and evidence. He is tireless in his advocacy of 
young people and their families. James is a careful listener 
who looks for common ground and is respected by his peers on 
both sides of the aisle. He understands the complexities of 
higher education policy, seeks to understand the competing 
perspectives, and he values accountability and transparency.
    For those of you who are meeting James for the first time 
today, I think you will soon share my view that the President 
has made an excellent choice. For those of you who have worked 
with James, you already know that he is exceptionally well 
qualified and a gifted leader in this field. I want to thank 
you so much for giving me the opportunity to express my support 
for James's confirmation as President Biden's Under Secretary 
of Education. Thank you.
    The Chair. Thank you, Congressman Miller. It looks like you 
are sitting where we would all rather be than in a hearing room 
today. Thank you for taking the time to join us today.
    Congressman Miller. Thank you very much.
    The Chair. With that, we will turn it over to Mr. Kvaal. 
You may now begin your testimony.

    STATEMENT OF JAMES KVAAL OF MASSACHUSETTS, TO BE UNDER 
                     SECRETARY OF EDUCATION

    Mr. Kvaal. Chair Murray, Ranking Member Burr, and Members 
of the Committee, it is humbling to be before you today. Two 
decades ago, I sat in this room as a Legislative Assistant to a 
Member of this Committee and I could not have imagined that I 
would someday find myself at this table. I want to thank 
President Biden for the honor of this nomination. I thank the 
Members of this Committee for the experienced insight that you 
have shared in our conversations in recent days and for the 
consideration you are giving me today. And I thank Mr. Miller 
for his exceptionally kind introduction and his decades of 
public service.
    As has been mentioned, I am joined here today by my wife, 
Stephanie, and my mother, Martha. Stephanie and I have an 
infant son, Joseph, who is home with my father. And Stephanie 
and I hope to share with Joseph two great gifts that my parents 
gave to me. The first was an excellent education. I attended 
strong public schools and with the help of Pell Grants and 
student loans and my parents sacrifices, I attended two great 
research universities. Every young person should have the same 
opportunities that those schools created for me.
    The second is a commitment to giving back to something 
greater than myself. My mother showed her idealism every day by 
putting her heart and soul into a civil service job. She 
believed in Government service as a way to improve the lives of 
her fellow Americans, and inspired by her, I have spent my 
career in public service. 25 years ago, my first permanent job 
was working on financial aid at the U.S. Department of 
Education. Among the career employees and political employees 
there, I found people whose talent and depth of commitment 
reminded me of my mother. I saw how Secretary Dick Riley 
treated every single person with respect and inspired each 
member of the team to do their best work.
    As a congressional staffer, I saw how George Miller 
combined idealism and legislative skill, and in other positions 
in the Senate, the White House and the Department of Education, 
I was fortunate to learn from great leaders like Arne Duncan 
and Cecilia Munoz. Most recently, I have led a nonprofit called 
the Institute for College Access and Success that conducts 
research into higher education policy. In each position, I 
sought to expand the circle of college opportunity, increase 
college scholarships, and make student loans easier to repay.
    I have come to believe that few, if any, institutions have 
as much potential to meet America's challenges as our colleges 
and universities do. They can boost people out of poverty, 
raise living standards, and while there's no silver bullet to 
racial injustices, colleges can do as much as any single 
institution to promote opportunity. University research also 
points the way on many of our country's most important 
challenges. To take advantage of that potential though we need 
to face three challenges first. And the first is the damage 
caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. More than half a million 
students have not enrolled this year, and some may never 
return. Colleges, some are already financially fragile, are 
struggling with higher costs and lower revenues.
    Students face academic gaps, new mental health challenges, 
and are likely to face a weak job market for years to come. If 
I am confirmed as Under Secretary, I will work every day to get 
students in colleges the resources and guidance they need to 
recover. Second, there is a crisis in the student loan program. 
For too long, the easy answer to rising college costs has been 
larger and larger loans. During the Great Recession, state 
funding fell dramatically, and student debt rose dramatically. 
Young people are beginning their careers in a hole, and in 
particular, the crisis among Black borrowers should weigh on 
our conscious as policymakers. We should explore ways to 
provide relief for students under the burden of student loan 
debt while helping current and future students with affordable 
options for college.
    Finally, we need to invest in making colleges a more 
reliable, more inclusive path to the middle class. Too often 
students do not complete their program, or a degree does not 
lead to a career. We can do better. Community colleges in New 
York cities have found ways to nearly double graduation rates. 
San Antonio colleges offer adult retraining programs and health 
care that break the cycle of poverty. We should invest in 
colleges committed to expanding opportunity, including 
community colleges, historically Black colleges and 
universities, minority serving institutions and others.
    We should support all kinds of successful post-secondary 
education and training programs, not just those that lead to 
four year degrees. I am inspired by the opportunity to serve 
President Biden and Secretary Cardona, whose ideas are as big 
as these challenges. Many Members of this Committee to have 
compelling solutions that will support our recovery.
    If you decide to support my confirmation, I promise to put 
my whole heart into working with you to offer all young people 
the same opportunities I hope to offer my son. Thank you. I 
look forward to the conversation.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Kvaal follows:]
                   prepared statement of james kvaal
    Chair Murray, Ranking Member Burr, and Members of the Committee:

    It is humbling to be before you today. Two decades ago, I sat in 
this room as a legislative assistant to a Member of this Committee. I 
could not have imagined that I would someday find myself at this table.

    I want to thank President Biden for the honor of this nomination. I 
thank the Members of the Committee for sharing their experience and 
insight in our recent conversations and for the consideration you are 
giving me today.

    I'm joined here today by my wife Stephanie. Stephanie and I hope to 
share with our infant son, Joseph, two great gifts my parents gave to 
me.

    The first is an excellent education. I attended strong public 
schools and--with the help of Pell grants, student loans, and my 
parents' sacrifices--went on to two great research universities. Every 
young person should have the same opportunities those schools created 
for me.

    The second is a commitment to giving back to something greater than 
yourself. My mother showed her idealism every day by putting her heart 
and soul into a civil service job. She believed in government service 
as a way to improve Americans' lives. Inspired by her, I have spent my 
career in public service.

    Twenty-five years ago, my first permanent job was working on 
financial aid at the U.S. Department of Education. Among the career 
employees and political appointees there, I found people whose talent 
and depth of commitment reminded me of my mother. I saw how Secretary 
Dick Riley treated every single person with respect and inspired each 
member of his team to do their best work.

    As a congressional staffer, I saw how George Miller combined 
idealism and legislative skill. Through other positions in the Senate, 
the White House, and the Department of Education, I was fortunate to 
have the opportunity to learn from other great education leaders like 
Arne Duncan, Cecilia Munoz, and others. Most recently, I led a 
nonprofit called The Institute for College Access & Success that 
conducts research into higher education policy. In each position, I 
sought to expand the circle of college opportunity, increase college 
scholarships, and make student loans easier to repay.

    I have come to believe that few, if any institutions have as much 
potential to meet America's most important challenges as our colleges 
and universities do. They can boost people out of poverty and raise 
living standards. While there is no silver bullet to eradicating racial 
injustice, colleges can do as much as any single institution to 
equalize opportunity. And at a time when, too often, we talk past one 
another, colleges can foster the exchange of new perspectives and 
promote empathy and understanding.

    To take advantage of that potential, though, we need to face three 
challenges. The first is the damage caused by the Covid-19 pandemic. 
More than 500,000 fewer students enrolled this year, and many may never 
return. Colleges, some already financially fragile, are struggling with 
higher costs and lower revenues. Students will face academic gaps, 
mental health needs, and a weak job market for years to come. If I am 
confirmed as Under Secretary, I will work every day to get students and 
colleges the resources and guidance they need.

    Second, there is a crisis in the student loan program. For too 
long, the easy answer to rising college costs has been larger and 
larger loans. During the Great Recession, state funding fell by $2,000 
per student at public colleges, while annual borrowing grew by $1,100. 
Young people bear the weight of beginning their careers in a hole due 
to large college debts. In particular, the crisis among Black 
borrowers--more than a third of whom default within 12 years--should 
weigh on our consciences. We need to continue to explore ways to 
provide relief for students under the burden of loan debt, while 
helping current and future students with affordable options.

    Finally, we need to invest in making colleges a more reliable, more 
inclusive path to the middle class. Too often, students do not complete 
their program or their degree does not lead to a career. We can do 
better. We know this can be done. For example, community colleges in 
New York City, Chicago, and Fort Worth have found ways to nearly double 
graduation rates. San Antonio colleges offer adult retraining programs 
in health care and other fields that break the cycle of poverty.

    We should invest in colleges committed to expanding opportunity, 
including community colleges, Historically Black Colleges and 
Universities, Minority-Serving Institutions, and others. We should 
support all kinds of successful education and training programs, not 
just those that lead to four-year degrees.

    I am inspired by the opportunity to serve President Biden and 
Secretary Cardona, whose ideas are as big as these challenges. Many 
Members of this Committee have compelling solutions of their own that 
will support our recovery.

    If you decide to support my confirmation, I promise to put my whole 
heart into working with you to offer all young people the same 
opportunities I hope to offer my son.

    Thank you. I look forward to our discussion.
                                 ______
                                 
    The Chair. Thank you very much. We will now begin a round 
of five minute questions, and I asked my colleagues to please 
keep track of the clock and stay within those five minutes. Mr. 
Kvaal, across the country, students and borrowers face the 
substantial and rising price of college and the looming 
possibility of restarting loan payments that are currently 
halted due to the pandemic. We know issues of access and 
affordability can have the greatest impacts on students of 
color.
    The pandemic has compounded the inequities that students of 
color already experience. And on top of this, the colleges that 
are most likely to serve our students of color continue to be 
underfunded. If confirmed, where do you see the strongest 
opportunities to close longstanding racial equity gaps in 
higher education, including funding, affordability, and student 
debt?
    Mr. Kvaal. Senator, thank you for the question and for your 
long standing commitment to equity in higher education. I think 
there are three parts of President Biden's agenda that are 
particularly important, and one is looking at student debts 
that exist now and students can't afford to repay. And we see a 
lot of students whose loans are getting larger rather than 
smaller as they struggle to repay those loans, particularly 
among Black students. The second is making college more 
affordable for current and future students, and that means 
invested in eliminating tuition at public colleges and 
universities, doubling Pell grants.
    The third would be putting a particular focus on those 
institutions that you mentioned that serve the highest 
proportions of low income students and students of color, like 
community colleges, historically Black colleges and 
universities, and minority serving institutions.
    The Chair. Okay, very good. You know, helping students and 
their families meet basic needs like food and housing and child 
care and health care has to be a top priority for the 
department. We have to support the whole student to make sure 
they can succeed academically. And unfortunately, recent data 
reveals what a challenge this is going to be. A survey released 
by the Hope Center two weeks ago shows that more than half of 
the students continue to report basic needs insecurity. And 
many other students just dropped out of school.
    Beginning in March 2010, Congress provided billions of 
dollars of emergency financial aid grants to help students 
during this pandemic. And Congress just passed another round of 
$20 billion for those grants in the American Rescue Plan. 
However, in that same Hope Center survey, two thirds of 
students who struggled with food and housing and basic needs 
and security said they were not able to access those emergency 
aid grants.
    That was in large part due to poor implementation of the 
CARES Act by the previous administration and really a lack of 
clear guidance to those students on how to access that 
emergency aid. While we are hopefully over the worst of the 
COVID-19 pandemic, there is a lot more work that needs to be 
done to better support students whose basic needs are not 
currently being met.
    If confirmed, will you make it a priority to help connect 
students to those basic needs supports, including the emergency 
financial aid grants that were included in the American Rescue 
Plan?
    Mr. Kvaal. I will. It will be a top priority of mine.
    The Chair. Will you bring a whole of Government approach to 
working with all the relevant Federal agencies to streamline 
and automate access to the benefit programs?
    Mr. Kvaal. I will.
    The Chair. Well, thank you very much. I really appreciate 
it.
    Senator Burr.
    Senator Burr. Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, I am often 
asked these days, what does the world look like post-COVID? 
What is Congress going to do for the balance of this year? 
Crystal ball is not very good. Somehow the crystal ball is good 
enough for us to say that if you are Black or brown, then there 
is no way for you to make a loan repayment--if you are a 
minority. If you come from this part of the country, that part 
of the country, you may or may not be able to--I don't know how 
we arbitrarily make that determination. Now, you made a 
statement that I just found to be incredible.
    We want to eliminate tuition at public institutions. Who is 
going to pay for that? Do we expect the taxpayers of those 
states who are already subsidizing higher education and in 
North Carolina, we have subsidized--we started at 66 percent, 
which was a year, years ago and I think we are down to about 48 
percent from the legislature of those public institutions? And 
that has sort of thrown everything into a bucket that some of 
them are HBCUs, some of them are prominent universities like NC 
State and the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill.
    Do we--and we say that tuition is unaffordable across the 
board. But under this scenario, we are either going to raise 
that tuition that we don't charge for at the taxpayer level or 
we are going to raise the tuition for everybody else at the 
institution to pay for the ones that are now free. Is that 
fair?
    Mr. Kvaal. Well, Senator, thank you for the question. We 
have seen a pattern now for decades where in every recession, 
states faced budget crises that lead them to make deep cuts in 
higher education funding. And that is the primary factor in 
rising tuition at community colleges and public universities, 
where almost three quarters of students go, and a big factor in 
rising debt levels. And so I believe that a new partnership 
between the Federal Government and states is needed to make 
sure that public colleges and universities are affordable for 
all students.
    Senator Burr. Let me just interpret, and tell me whether I 
am wrong. So for the states that won't subsidize public 
education so it is affordable for the most at risk students, 
which my State of North Carolina continues to do, you are going 
to penalize North Carolina that did it right, and you are going 
to subsidize the ones that wouldn't prioritize public education 
in their states.
    If the states won't fill the gap between affordability and 
what a student can pay, then the Federal taxpayer is going to 
do that. And somehow North Carolina does it right today, but 
states that don't are going to be the ones that drive this new 
policy. Is that an accurate statement?
    Mr. Kvaal. Hopefully we will have the opportunity to work 
together on this legislation. And I think it is really going to 
be important to think about how resources are allocated among 
states in a way that does not penalize states like North 
Carolina that successfully cap tuition.
    Senator Burr. Well, let me just--let me extrapolate that 
over to student loans for just a second. The approach that some 
are suggesting is that a doctor is treated just like an 
individual that had a sociology degree. Sociology might have a 
lower earnings capacity over their lifetime with a degree than 
a lawyer, but we are just going to do away with the loans that 
both of them have. Is that fair?
    Mr. Kvaal. Well----
    Senator Burr. One of them clearly has the capacity to repay 
the loan.
    Mr. Kvaal. What President Biden has suggested is that we 
need to think about a couple of different kinds of loan 
forgiveness. One is a temporary form of loan forgiveness 
directed at people struggling with the pandemic. A second would 
be for those in public service. And a third would be for those 
with low incomes and high debts. I think that is a general--as 
a general matter, that is a good structure for thinking about 
how do we identify those loans that are weighing people down 
and that they are struggling with and unable to afford.
    Senator Burr. Given that by the end of May, every American 
who wants to be vaccinated will have been vaccinated, can we 
then cutoff the people that are adversely affected by COVID 
because we can now replenish the workforce and the only thing 
that we are talking about is last March to this June that 
people have been financially impacted in a way that wouldn't 
provide them the ability to pay their student loan, or is this 
a program that we are going to put in place that extends well 
into the future?
    Mr. Kvaal. Well, I think some of these solutions do need to 
be permanent solutions. Public service loan forgiveness, for 
example. We need a permanent solution to that problem. I think 
in terms of the immediate actions that we take this year, we 
are in a situation that is unprecedented.
    In the last recession, student debt was one third the level 
that it is now. And so we do have millions of people who are 
struggling. And it is not just a question for those households, 
but it is also a broader challenge for our economy when 
everybody is weighed down by student debt. And so I think, if 
confirmed, I would be eager to work with you on how to design 
that.
    Senator Burr. I look forward to working with you. I think 
the biggest distinction between before, 2008, 2009, and today 
is we suspended the requirement to make student loan debts in, 
so one can only expect that you would have a higher number 
today based upon the increase in tuition, but also based on the 
fact that last year we haven't required anybody to make that 
student loan debt.
    I am glad to see Coach Tuberville here because I don't 
think there is anybody who has served in more institutions in 
the U.S. Senate than he has, and I am sure he will have some 
good comments. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    The Chair. Thank you.
    Senator Baldwin.
    Senator Baldwin. Thank you, Madam Chair. I welcome Mr. 
Powell to the HELP Committee. And it was great to see my former 
colleague George Miller, in his introduction of you. Our Nation 
faces significant challenges as we recover from the economic 
downturn created by this pandemic. For many people, today's 
financial hardships have led to existing related problems, the 
high cost of college and Americans' mountain of student debt, 
even worse.
    After our last recession, America's community and technical 
colleges played a critical role in helping folks affordably 
acquire new skills and get connected to high quality jobs in 
in-demand industries. That is why I will soon be reintroducing 
the America's College Promise Act legislation that I have led 
for several Congresses that would create a Federal, state 
partnership to make two years of education at these 
institutions tuition free.
    Mr. Kvaal, I understand you actually worked on this concept 
when President Obama first proposed it. Do you agree that this 
measure could not only help address the issue that President 
Obama was most focused on, college affordability, but also help 
aid our economic recovery today?
    Mr. Kvaal. Senator, I do. Thank you so much for your 
leadership on these issues. And I think that community colleges 
are really a very American institution and that they take 
people from all walks of life, whatever level of academic 
preparation they are at, whatever type of training or education 
they need. And I think that makes them, one of the leading 
purveyors of second chances in America, and investments in them 
could do a lot to strengthen our economy and promote equity.
    Senator Baldwin. Thank you. While we are making really 
great strides in our fight against COVID-19 and have worked to 
provide significant resources to colleges and universities to 
assist them during this challenging time, I think the road 
ahead of us is still pretty large. Institutions continue to 
work on vaccinating their students, faculty, their staff, 
finishing out their spring semesters, and planning for summer 
and next fall with an eye toward greater normalcy.
    They will continue to need the department's guidance and 
assistance to do so. If confirmed, how do you plan to work in 
partnership with other agencies, such as the Centers for 
Disease Control and Prevention, and other Federal agencies to 
support colleges and universities as they move forward?
    Mr. Kvaal. Thank you for the question. I agree 
wholeheartedly that we have quite a bit of work to do, and that 
students and colleges will be facing a number of challenges 
related to the pandemic for some time to come. Part of the 
question is public health guidance. And I am not a public 
health expert, but I know that the CDC has worked very hard to 
answer the questions that colleges and universities have.
    I think there is also a role for the department in helping 
colleges and universities learn from each other because a lot 
of institutions are tackling these challenges, dealing with 
questions about how to come back to campus safely and 
equitably, how to address mental health challenges, how to 
address any academic gaps. And I think there is a role for the 
department to help colleges learn from each other.
    Senator Baldwin. Well, thank you for that. As I noted 
before, I believe career and technical education programs will 
play a critical role in supporting our economic recovery. But 
those very programs, both at the middle and high school levels 
as well as at the community and technical colleges, have faced 
significant challenges during the pandemic.
    By public health necessity, many of the hands on training 
experiences of CTE programs became unavailable, requiring a 
challenging shift to online models of teaching and learning at 
the post-secondary level. We saw significant drops in community 
and technical college enrollments overall. So in short, at a 
moment when we will have the greatest need for these programs, 
they are facing significant challenges.
    If confirmed, in your role overseeing the Office of Career 
Technical and Adult Education, how would you help CTE programs 
navigate these issues and meet the needs of our economic 
recovery?
    Mr. Kvaal. I agree entirely. I am a wholehearted supporter 
of career and technical education and I think it is going to be 
particularly important as the job market recovers and the jobs 
that are being created coming forward may not be quite the same 
as the jobs that existed before. So it will be really important 
to help people gain skills to get good jobs as the economy 
grows.
    Obviously, it has been a particular challenge to deliver 
high quality career and technical education in a virtual 
environment. But there are people who are doing it 
successfully. So I think it is important to develop and share 
those best practices and find ways to invest more in the kinds 
of programs suited to the conditions we are in today.
    Senator Baldwin. Thank you. And Madam Chair, I yield back.
    The Chair. Thank you.
    Senator Cassidy.
    Senator Cassidy. Thank you for offering your service. I 
appreciate that. I am the lead Republican sponsor of the 
College Transparency Act, which is a bipartisan, bicameral bill 
that ensures that students, families, as well as those who are 
interested, policymakers, researchers, etcetera, can easily 
access high quality, postsecondary education to tell them where 
to go to school.
    For example, they can log on, and if I, whatever I look 
like when I look in the mirror, whatever my socioeconomic 
status, I would be able to find me in which school, in which 
curriculum, and how much would I be expected to borrow, what is 
my likelihood to graduate, and what money am I going to earn 
when I graduate. If you get a petroleum engineering at the 
school, how will you do or computer science versus if you get 
gender studies at another school. What is your likelihood of 
graduating with debt that you can pay off with your beginning 
salary?
    Now, DOE gets it, the department of Ed gets this 
information already, but there is a ban on the Federal 
Government collecting and reporting program level outcomes 
data. So I guess my question is, one, how do you feel about 
such a program? This is bipartisan by the way, our Democratic 
colleagues in the Senate, and then both parties in the House. 
How do you feel about it? And let me start with that and I will 
ask a follow-up after that.
    Mr. Kvaal. Senator, I am aware of and I commend your 
longstanding work on this issue. I talked to many students and 
parents who faced with one of the biggest investments of their 
lives, are frustrated by the lack of information about some of 
the questions that you just mentioned. I am not aware that the 
Administration has a position on the piece of legislation you 
mentioned, but in some of my prior writings, I have talked 
about the importance of the College Transparency Act and 
putting better information in the hands of students in ways 
that are secure, and privacy protected.
    Senator Cassidy. Okay with the concept, but you need kind 
of the sign off from the Administration before you go forward?
    Mr. Kvaal. Correct. I am not a member of the Administration 
and I am not in a position to make policy commitments on behalf 
of the Administration. But, I can share my personal opinion, 
which is I think, repealing the student record ban would be a 
big step forward.
    Senator Cassidy. Sounds great. Let me ask you about this. 
The student's IEP in K through 12 does not track through to 
higher education.
    For example, the child who was diagnosed with dyslexia, 
which is a real interest of mine, may have to get reevaluated 
when they go to college, even though one is diagnosed with 
dyslexia in the first grade, you are dyslexic for the rest of 
your life. This is just a question about how well you 
compensate and how well you can otherwise function around it. I 
am the co-sponsor of the RISE Act with Senator Casey, making 
sure that students get the services and accommodations for 
dyslexia that they may need in higher education.
    Any thoughts upon that? I mean, again, I know that you 
can't prescribe policy for the Administration, but I guess it 
is more fundamental. Would you accept that if once a dyslexic, 
always a dyslexic, and that if somebody is evaluated in fourth 
grade, why make them pay for another evaluation before they 
head off to school?
    Mr. Kvaal. Senator, I think you are making a great point 
there. And perhaps at some point we thought high school was for 
everyone and college was not. But we are now at a point where 
some kind of education or training after high school is more 
and more important. And I think it is important for us to pay 
very careful attention to the continuing inequities that face 
students with disabilities in the post-secondary environment. 
And that includes racial disparities. That includes making sure 
that college instructors are trained in how to teach students 
with disabilities. And, of course, all these challenges----
    Senator Cassidy. My specific question is, what about if 
somebody has got an IEP establishing that they are dyslexic and 
K through 12, my specific question is, should that be allowed 
to follow them into the university, or should they be forced to 
pay for another evaluation?
    Mr. Kvaal. I am sorry, I didn't mean to ramble on. I think 
that is an idea that is very much worth studying. I don't 
understand the full ramifications of that, but I would love to 
meet with you and your staff to talk more about it.
    Senator Cassidy. Sounds great. With that, Madam Chair, I 
yield back.
    The Chair. Thank you.
    Senator Kaine.
    Senator Kaine. Thank you, Chair Murray and Ranking Member 
Burr. And Mr. Kvaal, good to be with you. First, thank you for 
your career. There is a very straight through line in your 
career in terms of what your passions are. You are a mission 
driven person and that is very obvious, and it is laudable. And 
congratulations both on your nomination and also the new 
addition to your family. You and I had a good discussion 
yesterday about an issue of passion. And I will just start, for 
me, and I will just start this way, do you think that high 
quality post-secondary workforce training is higher education?
    Mr. Kvaal. I do.
    Senator Kaine. It is really important to me. I once gave a 
graduation speech at the apprenticeship school at the Newport 
News Shipbuilding School. And my speech was, I want to 
congratulate you and I want to apologize to you. I congratulate 
you because you got into a program whose acceptance rate is 
lower than getting into Harvard and you have trained to earn 
this wonderful skill and now you will earn a great living doing 
something really patriotic, shipbuilding. But I want to 
apologize to you, because in the Nation's statistics, we don't 
count you as having a higher education degree.
    I have a passion about eliminating, root and branch, the 
way we treat people with career and technical degrees. We don't 
treat them as having higher education degrees. And this has 
been a passion of mine for many years, and I am very, very 
focused on it. You praised your own educational background, 
including the importance of the Pell Grant program to help you 
get through college. And we try to make Pell Grant pretty 
flexible. A student who does 12 credit hours a semester can get 
a Pell Grant if their family income qualifies and the course is 
15 weeks long, a traditional college semester.
    We pro-rated Pell Grants if a student says, I can't do 12 
hours, I can only do six semester hours because I have a job. 
Then we prorated the Pell Grant. We just did a wonderful thing 
in expanding Pell Grant availability after many years of not 
doing it to folks in prison. But here is who doesn't get a Pell 
Grant. If a student and a family that qualifies for Pell Grants 
wants to take a super intense, you know, eight week career and 
technical program at a community college, the fact that it is 
eight weeks in length means they can't get a Pell Grant. It is 
not 15 weeks long. Eight weeks often is, you know, 30 or 40 
hours a week.
    They spend almost as much time in an eight-week class as 
somebody would in a 15 week semester at a college. But we don't 
give them a Pell Grant. And so the family that Pell Grant 
qualifies, whose kid wants to go to college, gets it as an 
entitlement. The family and student can plan how to use it, 
where to take it to an accredited institution. But the family 
with the child that wants to do a high quality career and 
technical education program doesn't get a Pell Grant.
    Maybe there is a program available for him, maybe there 
isn't. Maybe the cost is affordable, maybe it isn't. And we owe 
the funds that we use for career and technical training, are 
dispersed by Governors. They are often in program funds, they 
don't go to families, and they are often focused on hard hit 
workers, not up and coming young people. So my passion is to 
try to do what we have done with Pell Grants for part time 
students and do what we have done with Pell Grants for 
prisoners and make Pell Grants available to people who enroll 
in high quality career and technical post-secondary programs, 
even if they aren't 15 weeks long, so long as there is quality 
metrics to suggest, as you say, these are things that can get 
people good careers.
    I ask you, do you believe in using the Pell Grant as we 
have with other populations to try to be flexible to their 
needs to support students who choose to focus their education 
on high quality career and technical education programs, even 
if they are not 15 weeks long?
    Mr. Kvaal. I do. I appreciate your long leadership on this 
issue. And in our conversation yesterday, a new appreciation 
for your thoughtfulness and your passion. I agree that career 
and technical education programs can lead to really meaningful 
career job opportunities. They deserve the same amount of 
support and the same amount of respect that other types of 
higher education programs do. And if I am confirmed, I am 
confident we can work together to support high quality training 
programs, including those that are shorter than 15 weeks.
    Senator Kaine. Because there isn't any--just as there isn't 
anything magic about you have to be a full time, you know, 
student with 12 semester hours, and we prorate Pell Grants for 
part time students, there isn't anything magic about a 15 week 
semester is there?
    Mr. Kvaal. There certainly are programs that are shorter 
than 15 weeks that get very strong outcomes, and some of those 
are in your home state, of course.
    Senator Kaine. Right. We have a wonderful program in my 
community college system, the Fast Forward Program that has had 
some significant and notable success. Mr. Kvaal, thank you for 
that dialog and your testimony today. I yield back.
    The Chair. Thank you.
    Senator Braun.
    Senator Braun. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good to visit again. 
It was just yesterday we had a good robust, I think, half an 
hour conversation. I am going to cover some of that same 
territory. I served on a school board in my hometown for ten 
years and recall how every time we crafted a budget and did 
everything, it was within parameters and always worked out 
where year after year after year. We did things that were 
sustainable, including building projects. Was in our state 
legislature for three years, and I think I told you the story 
that interviewed Mitch Daniels on being on Ways and Means in 
2015.
    Second year, I was on the Education Committee and started 
talking about career, technical education because as a business 
owner in a place like Indiana, where we export twice as many 
four year degrees as we keep, high demand, high wage jobs, all 
of us out there need more training in high school that is 
better by the time they get to the arena that you are going to 
be involved with. High cost to me is what is besetting 
education. And I look again, I told you, Mitch Daniels, when I 
interviewed him, he said he wants to try to keep tuition 
sustainable.
    Well, it is the 9th or 10th year. He shamed other 
Presidents, at least in our neck of the woods, into doing the 
same. It is no different than my other main issue or one of 
them here, which would be high cost of health care. The 
industry is broken to an extent. So I have got three areas I 
would like your comments on. What do we do to lower the cost 
and increase effectiveness, which is the hallmark of anything 
else that works in this country, and it is not done with 
unlimited resources like we might have here?
    The student debt that has risen along with extremely high 
post-secondary education costs, and now the discussion of maybe 
free college tuition, when we got a place that has got more 
debt than it has had since World War II. And back then, we were 
savers and investors, and we are spenders and consumers now. So 
please address the high cost, currently, what you do about it, 
does Mitch Daniels have it right? Student debt, would you 
forgive it? And would you be interested in free college 
tuition?
    Mr. Kvaal. Senator, thanks again for the time you spent 
with me yesterday. I appreciated that conversation and for the 
questions today, I do think that it is important for colleges 
and universities to focus on the value that they are offering 
students and to taxpayers, and that there are things that 
colleges and universities can do to find ways to lower their 
costs without hurting or even in some cases while helping 
academic quality.
    Our system is very good at innovating, our system of higher 
education. We are not always as good at putting our finger on 
what is working and helping others learn from it. And that 
might be something that we could work on together, if I am 
confirmed. In the area of student debt cancellation, President 
Biden has proposed some forms of loan forgiveness.
    There is a temporary measure related to hardship related to 
the pandemic and the economic emergency, making the public 
service loan program work and forgiving debts for people with 
particularly high debts and low incomes. I think generally that 
is a structure that makes sense and would be interested in 
continuing the conversation with you about how to design those 
forms of loan forgiveness. In the area of tuition, I note that 
a century ago we decided to make high school not just 
universal, but free.
    In the middle of the last century, we had a commanding lead 
on the rest of the world in levels of educational attainment. I 
believe the figure is in the 1950's or 60's, an American was 
two or three times more likely to be a high school graduate 
than a European was. And that was an important factor in our 
economic prosperity. I think we are at a point now where more 
education is needed to create opportunity and create growth.
    I think we should recognize that we all have a stake in 
making college more widely available. And so I think it is 
appropriate for us to invest more in our colleges and 
universities, and part of that could be eliminating tuition.
    Senator Braun. That is good. And I think the complication 
currently, and when you cite the 50's and even up until the 
turn of the century, we actually had a balance sheet and a 
capability that would maybe make that reasonable to say you 
could do any of that.
    I think until we get that in order here, whether it is 
climate, whether it is education, whether it is health care, 
that is the biggest challenge is how do you pay for it and do 
it sustainably, so you don't simply throw an illusion out there 
for the American public. Thank you.
    The Chair. Thank you.
    Senator Hassan.
    Senator Hassan. Well, thank you, Chair Murray and Ranking 
Member Burr. And welcome to Mr. Kvaal for being here today. 
Thank you for your interest in service and thank your family as 
well.
    Mr. Kvaal. Thank you.
    Senator Hassan. I want to start with a question about for 
profit colleges. One key priority for me is to hold predatory, 
for profit colleges accountable so that students get the 
results that they were promised and that they have paid for. 
That is why I worked with Senator Durbin last Congress to 
introduce a comprehensive bill to strengthen consumer 
protections in higher education that protects student debt.
    I am pleased that the American Rescue Plan that the 
President signed into law last month included a provision from 
the Protect Students Act to help stop for profit colleges from 
taking advantage of veterans and service members. But there is 
still much work to be done. For example, the Protect Students 
Act would also strengthen enforcement when students are 
defrauded and improve oversight of the process used by for 
profit colleges that seek to convert to nonprofit status.
    Mr. Kvaal, how can the Administration and Congress work 
together to hold predatory, for profit colleges accountable and 
provide recourse to students who have been defunded--defrauded?
    Mr. Kvaal. Senator, thanks so much for your leadership on 
this issue. And that legislation, I think, is a really 
important list of things that Congress could do to ensure that 
students aren't left with debts they can't afford to repay and 
that colleges aren't allowed to shift the costs of illegal 
conduct onto students. And many of the proposals in that bill, 
of course, affect all kinds of colleges. How we have seen 
disproportionate abuses in for profit colleges in the past.
    I appreciate your partnership on that really important 
piece of legislation and congratulate you on the inclusion of 
the 1910 provision in the American Rescue Plan and also some of 
the steps that the Administration has taken in the area of 
defrauded students.
    Senator Hassan. Well, thank you. I look forward to 
continuing working with you on those issues. Let me talk a 
little bit, too, about the realities of today's students, 
because you just said a moment ago the for profit sector is one 
area where students don't always get what they paid for. But we 
also have to think hard about the situation that today's 
college students are in. They have numerous demands on their 
time, and they often struggle to actually complete their 
academic programs.
    One of my concerns is that institutions don't always have 
all the tools that they need to help students succeed. So I 
recently joined Senators Young, Kaine and Cassidy in 
reintroducing the bipartisan Innovation Zones Act, a bill to 
improve on existing program--an existing program that colleges 
use to implement innovative programs to better serve their 
students. I also have a bill to support competency based 
education so that more students have access to programs that 
actually measure their mastery of skills and knowledge rather 
than the hours they spend in their seat.
    That goes a little bit to Senator Kaine's point about 8 
weeks versus 15 weeks. We really should be looking at giving 
students flexibility when they are completing their programs 
and really measuring what they have learned, not just how long 
they have been in their seats. So how do you think the 
Department of Education can support responsible innovation in 
higher education to meet the needs of today's college students?
    Mr. Kvaal. Thank you for the question, Senator. I think 
those pieces of legislation address some really important 
topics. And competency based education, for example, has the 
potential to help students complete their degrees faster while 
saving them money. And it could also be a way of ensuring that 
they are learning what it is that they are supposed to learn. 
Unfortunately, our rules of the existing financial aid programs 
were really written with the traditional model in mind. And 
there are a lot of hurdles for institutions like Southern New 
Hampshire who are trying to do things in new and different ways 
and would be eager to work with you to find ways to make new 
ways of doing things possible.
    Senator Hassan. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Last 
topic, we also have to work on expanding higher education 
programs to engage workers who have fallen out of the labor 
force or who are working but need help in making progress in 
their career. They might need a new credential. So I recently 
reintroduced the Gateway to Careers Act with Senators Young, 
Kaine and Collins. This bipartisan bill would support career 
pathway programs where students can earn an income while they 
are also completing educational credentials.
    The bill also includes important wraparound supports for 
learners who face barriers to completion, like help accessing 
affordable housing or covering transportation costs. So do you 
agree that it is important to support these kinds of programs 
so that our most vulnerable workers have access to educational 
opportunities to help them succeed?
    Mr. Kvaal. I do. And I have seen a lot of colleges have 
success with tragedies like the ones you have mentioned.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. I look forward to working with 
you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    The Chair. Thank you.
    Senator Tuberville.
    Senator Tuberville. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning.
    Mr. Kvaal. Morning.
    Senator Tuberville. Thanks for being here. As you probably 
heard, I got a little background in education, 40 years of 
coaching, but coached high school and taught a little bit in 
high school and taught some in college, and it is a passion of 
mine. One of the reasons I am here as a United States Senator, 
because I saw in 40 years how our education has kind of 
drifted. We have gotten too much politics involved.
    I think it is a total right for every kid in this country 
to have a quality education, especially in secondary education, 
but I am a true believer that it is not the obligation of the 
people, the taxpayer of this country to pay for higher 
education, because I think when you get to that point, you need 
to earn that right. You know, these young kids. And I think it 
is important that we understand that if we continue to put 
politics and make more things free for these kids, it is going 
to be hard for them to really understand the importance of it.
    Secretary Cardona lacks extensive experience in some areas 
in education, especially higher education. If confirmed, how 
are you going to help him with that? Just give me a few ideas.
    Mr. Kvaal. Well, Senator, I am a big admirer of Secretary 
Cardona, and I found him to be a really principled man and a 
strong leader. And of course, I will be taking my direction 
from him and from President Biden and attempting to apply the 
values and policy direction he sets in the areas in which I am 
responsible. And I will attempt to give him, for whatever 
decision he faces, the best available data and evidence and a 
fair reflection of the different perspectives that are out 
there on the question.
    Senator Tuberville. Have we seen--as we have seen in this 
pandemic, we have had a tough time getting back to school? A 
lot of teachers going back to school. To me, teachers are First 
Responders. I mean, we got to fight to get back to help our 
kids.
    Education is one of the most important things that we have 
done in this country. Unfortunately, we are 38th in the world 
now in math in this country. That is unacceptable. It is very 
unacceptable. We have got a lot of areas that we have got to 
improve on. I am not a big fan of teachers unions. To this 
point after seeing what just happened, I am not a fan of tenure 
in four year universities. I am a big fan of junior colleges. I 
have been in hundreds of them across this country.
    I think we can make them better. But I think it is 
important if we are going to work with higher-ed that we have 
got to understand, we have got to start teaching. We can't let 
graduate assistants teach all of our classes. I mean, we have 
got to get our professors back in the classroom.
    One area that I am a little bit disappointed in and I want 
to get your opinion on this and see where you stand on it is, 
you know, for 40 years I worked for Title 9 in this country. I 
am a big proponent of women's athletics and I think they have 
come so far in this country. It has given opportunities to 
young girls that they would never have had.
    Now, all of a sudden, we are thinking about allowing young 
transgender boys to participate in women's athletics. It is 
going to kill it. What are your thoughts on that?
    Mr. Kvaal. Well, Senator, the laws written by Congress 
requires the department to ensure that all students have equal 
access to educational opportunities, and that includes 
transgender students, and that includes extracurricular 
activities. I understand this is an issue that people have very 
strong opinions about. People don't necessarily agree. And if I 
am confirmed, I will work under the leadership of Secretary 
Cardona and do my best to protect all students rights and 
respect the dignity of all students.
    Senator Tuberville. I just hope we look at the overall big 
picture of this, because it could be devastating to a lot of 
kids in this Country. And again, we want to give everybody free 
rein to have a great education and play sports, I understand 
that. But we have got to look at the sensibility of this. What 
about diversity and speech on college campuses? You know, we 
are having a huge fight right now, East, West, North, South, 
and all our four year universities. You are going to have this 
problem.
    Again, I have been on campuses all my life and we are 
having a division on--when you have a division on your campus 
in education, you have division in Country. And right now we 
are having a division on politics on campus. What is your 
thought about diversity in speech on four year universities?
    Mr. Kvaal. I think that freedom of speech is a foundational 
value of our democracy in our country and that given their 
mission and producing knowledge, and teaching students the free 
exchange of ideas is particularly important on college 
campuses.
    Senator Tuberville. Thank you. Look forward to working with 
you. Thank you, Chair Murray.
    The Chair. Thank you.
    Senator Smith.
    Senator Smith. Thank you so much, Chair Murray. And Mr. 
Kvaal, it is wonderful to be with you virtually, and I want to 
thank you so much for your willingness to serve. And I look 
forward to supporting your nomination for Under Secretary. I 
would like to ask you a couple of questions but let me start 
with a question around the Public Service Loan Forgiveness 
Program, which I am sure, you know, we have had a lot of 
challenges with. So we all know, I think, that public sector 
workers are so important to our--the way our country works, the 
way our economy works, the way our families work.
    We have really seen this so much over the last year as 
essential workers and public health nurses, teachers, and 
others have really literally been risking their lives and 
working so hard for our communities in the midst of this 
pandemic. And as you know, the Public Service Loan Forgiveness 
Program was created in 2007 to help incentivize public service 
and support those who dedicate themselves to these really 
important roles by providing loan forgiveness after 120 
qualifying monthly payments.
    However, due to the extreme complexities of this program, 
poor implementation, and a lack of oversight, the Public 
Service Loan Forgiveness Program has not fulfilled its promise. 
Since its inception, this is I think incredible, just over 1 
percent of applicants to the program have been approved, 
meaning that over 98 percent of applicants seeking forgiveness 
have been rejected. And I can tell you from the conversations 
that I have had with many, many Minnesotans, how families have 
seen their finances turned upside down as this happened. I 
mean, this just shouldn't be happening.
    I think we can do a lot more with the Public Service Loan 
Forgiveness Program to make sure that helping people who 
dedicated their professional lives to service. And I think that 
there is a great need for better management of this program, 
better oversight, better implementation.
    Mr. Kvaal, if you are confirmed, could you talk to us a 
little bit about what you would do to help improve the 
administration of the public loan service--a Public Service 
Loan Forgiveness Program, and how do you see this challenge, 
and what we can do to fix it?
    Mr. Kvaal. Senator, thank you for the question. I agree 
entirely on the importance of this program. And we need to make 
sure that people who go into public service careers with the 
understanding that the Federal Government has promised to help 
them with their student loan debt, do in fact receive the 
benefit of that promise. And we have a program that is 
unfortunately quite complicated. Not all Federal loans are 
eligible. If you do have the right kind of loan, not all 
repayment plans are eligible.
    Then on top of that, as you suggest, it has not been well 
implemented and students struggle to get accurate, clear 
information and to navigate the application process. So I think 
there is a lot we can do together to make sure that students 
get the benefits that they are entitled to.
    Senator Smith. Well, I would really look forward to working 
with you on this. I think it is extremely important. We have a 
promise to fulfill and a real opportunity to support public 
sector workers who thought that they had an agreement and 
understanding about what was going to happen with this program 
only to find themselves left high and dry way too many times. 
So thank you for that and I look forward to working with you. 
Well we just have a little bit of time left and I want to just 
go to the issue of student loan forgiveness.
    We all can acknowledge, can understand and see both sides 
of the party divide that the student loan debt crisis is out of 
control. I likened it to somebody with a student loan debt, it 
is like they are carrying a thousand pound weight around with 
them wherever they go, and this makes it so much harder for 
them to buy a house, buy a car, to take the job that they want.
    Of course, we know that weight doesn't, isn't an equal 
across all folks, and that this is a particularly a challenge 
for Black and brown and indigenous students who are seeing an 
even higher student loan debt. And it is also not just an issue 
for people at the beginning of their career, it is also a 
matter of great concern to folks who maybe got additional 
education halfway through their career to find themselves 
postponing retirement because of student loan debt.
    I support the idea of canceling student loan debt up to 
$50,000. There are lots of ideas. There is not just one 
solution for what to do about this. Could you just take a 
minute to say what you would like to, you know, kind of where 
you think we ought to be looking for help for folks as we look 
at the student debt crisis?
    Mr. Kvaal. Well, Senator, I think you describe the problem 
very, very well, and I agree with the challenge that we face, 
as you described it. President Biden has talked about loan 
forgiveness in a couple of different categories. One is some 
relief now for people struggling with the pandemic and the 
economic emergency, and then additional relief in the areas of 
public service loan forgiveness, and also for students with 
particularly high debts and low income. So I don't have a fixed 
opinion about how exactly to structure relief in those three 
categories, but I would be eager to work with you, if I am 
confirmed, on how to approach those issues.
    Senator Smith. I think you are right that there are many 
solutions to this problem. Thank you very much, Mr. Kvaal. 
Thank you.
    The Chair. Thank you. I believe Senator Rosen is online. 
And do not--don't see Senator Rosen? Is Senator Hickenlooper--
seeing neither one of them? I will ask one question. Encourage 
them to get online quickly. I think Senator Burr and I are left 
and if they want to ask a question, they are going have to get 
online. But, Mr. Kvaal, thank you for your patience. Let me ask 
one question.
    As you know, the pandemic has created unprecedented chaos 
and economic uncertainty for students across the country. And 
unfortunately, we have seen a decline in FAFSA completion 
during this pandemic. This challenge has been particularly 
severe at those high schools with a very high population of 
students of color, where the decline is almost four times worse 
than at schools where the students are predominantly white.
    I am extremely concerned about what that means for the 
pipeline of students moving on to higher education and training 
opportunities, and how it may further increase equity gaps in 
college access and success. So I wanted to ask you, if 
confirmed, how will you make sure the department works to 
improve FAFSA completion at schools within, especially with 
substantial populations of students from low income households 
and among unemployed adults?
    Mr. Kvaal. Thank you, Senator. As you noted in your opening 
remarks, there are a number of areas where we have longstanding 
challenges that have been exacerbated by the pandemic and this 
is one. Of course, it is particularly troubling the decline in 
FAFSA completion rates and the extent that it suggests that 
people are not continuing on to college and it will be extra 
work to try to get them back on the pipeline and back on to the 
path.
    We do not want to see a permanent dent in educational 
attainment as a result of this pandemic. So I think all options 
have to be on the table in terms of reaching out to these 
students, extending deadlines, being flexible with 
requirements, and trying to make sure that as many people as 
possible are going back to school as soon as it is safe to do 
so.
    The Chair. Okay. How will you make sure the department 
prioritizes implementation of the bipartisan FAFSA 
Simplification Act as quickly as possible, including using 
early implementation authority?
    Mr. Kvaal. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate your enacting 
that legislation as well as the legislation allowing the 
department access to tax data to simplify financial aid 
applications. I think that and reducing the number of questions 
is a really important step. And if I am confirmed, it will be 
one of my highest priorities to work with FSA to get that 
implemented as quickly as well as possible.
    The Chair. Okay, thank you very much. And I see Senator 
Rosen and Senator Hickenlooper have come back on. Senator Burr, 
you want to wait until they ask their questions or--Senator 
Rosen, we will start with you.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you, Chair Murray and Ranking Member 
Burr. I appreciate it. And thank you to Mr. Kvaal for spending 
time with us today and for your willingness to serve. I want to 
talk a little bit about supporting minority students, because 
in Clark County, Nevada, nearly half of our K through 12 
students are Latino, and statewide, half of our colleges are 
Hispanic serving institutions or agencies.
    We also have one of the fastest growing AAPI populations in 
the country. And we are home to UNLV, one of the Nation's few 
Asian-American, Native American Pacific, Islander serving 
institutions or NAPs. So what would you do if confirmed to 
support HSIs or NAPCs and college students of color more 
broadly, please?
    Mr. Kvaal. Senator, thanks for the question. And one of the 
reasons that I am inspired by the opportunity to serve in the 
Biden administration is how much he talks about the importance 
in investing in institutions that serve the most students of 
color and the most low income students. And, as I am sure you 
are aware, he campaigned on an ambitious plan to invest in 
those types of colleges. And, I would be eager to be a part of 
carrying out those promises.
    I think one of the first orders of business would be 
aggressively implementing the resources that Congress has 
provided in the recent economic recovery packages. And, I would 
say I think it is also particularly important that the voices 
representing those institutions are heard at the highest levels 
of the department and the Administration.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I would like to talk and just 
move on a little bit to our TRIO, our Federal TRIO programs, 
because they provide individualized tutoring, mentoring, and 
advising for first generation and low income college students, 
students with disabilities, and they help them enter and 
complete college. So in the Fiscal Year 2020 in Nevada, TRIO 
served over 7,000 students and 31 TRIO programs.
    TRIO improves college enrollment and completion, which 
actually leads to higher lifetime earnings for students, which 
creates taxpaying citizens and reduces costs for Government 
services later in life. I have joined 40 of my Senate 
colleagues and urged them that the December COVID Relief bill 
include TRIO as an allowable use of higher education funds.
    Although we were successful, colleges continue to face 
dramatic revenue losses. To increase costs, it will make it 
difficult for many of them to continue their TRIO services. So 
if confirmed, will you support an increase in President Biden's 
Fiscal Year 2022 budget to help expand the TRIO programs to 
help low income students, students with disabilities, first 
generation students?
    Mr. Kvaal. Senator, thanks for that question. The TRIO 
programs, of course, have a long history coming out of the 
civil rights movement in helping low income students and first 
generation students earn college degrees. I believe they have 
now contributed to millions, literally millions of college 
degrees. And I think they play a very important role in 
promoting equal opportunity. And if I am confirmed, I will 
strongly support the trio programs.
    Senator Rosen. In addition to supporting, you have worked 
in higher education for many years. How might you expand? Do 
you see an opportunity for us to expand and grow these programs 
to help many more students achieve their goals?
    Mr. Kvaal. I hope so, Senator. I think that they would be 
worthy recipients of additional Federal resources for sure.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I would like to move on and talk 
a little bit about digital learning, first during the pandemic. 
COVID-19 really exacerbates the inequities facing college 
students, of course all of our students and so many of us in 
every other way, but particularly at the students with the 
digital divide. It disproportionately affects Blacks, Latinos, 
native households, rural communities in our State of Nevada.
    They are really struggling to begin or continue their 
education in this last year. So what will you see for the 
department in helping to close that digital divide for college 
students, for students of color, for our rural populations, and 
if so, how are you going to be able to address this problem 
through the Department of Education?
    Mr. Kvaal. Thank you for the question. It is clear that the 
pandemic has revealed just how wide the digital divide is and 
how much many communities struggle to access broadband. And 
even as hopefully students return safely to campuses, the 
digital divide is going to remain a really important barrier to 
equal educational opportunity and a problem for many other 
reasons as well. So, I would be delighted to explore with you 
what the Department of Education can do and how we can advocate 
for broadband investments with other Federal agencies as well.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you very much. I think broadband is 
critical infrastructure, so I look forward to those 
conversations. Thank you. I yield back.
    The Chair. Thank you.
    Senator Hickenlooper, are you available?
    Senator Hickenlooper. Yes. Can you hear me?
    The Chair. Yes, we can now. Go ahead.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Sorry about that. I appreciate all 
the testimony today. It has been really fascinating, and 
enjoyed our discussion yesterday, Mr. Kvaal. You know, as you--
as we discuss, I am very committed to the idea of 
apprenticeships at all levels for, every possible profession, 
career wise and Colorado's made a lot of progress on that.
    Obviously, I think as we recover from the pandemic, this 
nexus between the needs of the workforce and our educational 
access is going to be very important. So I thought I would just 
start and ask, in terms of these apprenticeships, do you see 
that we can begin to accelerate and expand our, the Federal 
Government's ability to support apprenticeships in states all 
across the country?
    Mr. Kvaal. Thanks, Senator. I also really enjoyed our 
conversation the other day and learning about some of the great 
programs you have been a part of in Colorado. I do think that 
apprenticeships are one of the most effective ways that we 
found to help people gain new skills and get into new careers. 
And if confirmed, I would be eager to work with you to find new 
ways for the Federal Government to support them.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. And as we discussed--sorry to 
go back over some of the things we already have covered. But I 
think it is good to get on the record. This notion that we can 
utilize apprenticeships or some other forms of experiential 
learning that they can be applied to what I say, I usually say 
is kids of all ages and we can begin to move toward a system of 
stackable credentials so that it is a lifetime learning 
solution to the--I mean, there is no question we are going to 
see disruptions in our workforce from automation and artificial 
intelligence, machine learning, etcetera.
    I think these stackable credentials are a great 
opportunity. I think you are the person sitting right at the 
nexus of where that is--where that work is going to have--is 
going to happen between the community colleges and universities 
and these kind of high school to university programs. What is 
your sense about what the priority, what the first step should 
be?
    Mr. Kvaal. Well, Senator, I am very aware about the urgency 
of this issue. And I think when you look at the potential for 
long term unemployment, past experience has been people never 
get back to the proper level of earnings. And particularly when 
you read about the impact on families, it is particularly 
heartbreaking.
    I think as we are supporting colleges and universities, as 
they hopefully return and return to something better than what 
we had before, we need to be helping them find successful 
models for stackable credentials. And we need to be making sure 
that we are supporting them as they try and strengthen the 
value that they offer to students.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Right. No, absolutely. Well, I 
appreciate that sense of urgency, because I do think it is one 
of the most pressing issues that you are going to face and that 
we as a country face. Let me switch then, and you talked about 
this a little earlier today, and this our ability to attract 
people from disadvantaged backgrounds, low income communities, 
whether they are African-American or Latino or Asian or any 
constituency.
    We haven't done a good job of attracting these kids into 
science and technology, into STEM. And I would argue STEAM. You 
know, you have art, that A in there for the arts. Have you got 
any ideas of what we can do to do a better job of attracting--
and I think taking fifth graders, sixth graders, I think there 
is a key point there where if we can stimulate their curiosity 
at that early age, then we have a legitimate chance to capture 
them, to, to bring them into a life of research and innovation?
    Mr. Kvaal. It is--I certainly agree with you that these 
careers are so important in that we as a country have a long 
way to go to fully take advantage of all the talents of our 
population. And, I know a little less about elementary and 
secondary education, but I do think one important thing we can 
do is invest in historically Black colleges and universities 
and minority serving institutions which have proven to be such 
effective pipelines for diverse talent.
    Senator Hickenlooper. No, that is exactly right. And I love 
that you are serving with a Secretary who really does 
understand, or you are about to, we hope, to be serving with a 
Secretary who really does understand elementary education and 
education all the way through the entire system. Just real 
quickly, again, as kids come out of whether it is Black 
colleges or whatever higher education system they have, how do 
we keep them into--in STEM, in science and technology?
    Mr. Kvaal. There is a lot of work to do there, too, 
Senator. I think one important part of it is helping young 
people have role models for their careers. And one thing that I 
hear over and over again is the importance of role models who 
look like them. So that seems like a daunting challenge now 
when these professions are not as inclusive as we would all 
like them to be. But the good news there is I think when we 
start to make progress, it will be self-reinforcing.
    Senator Hickenlooper. I think you are exactly right. And I 
think it is one of those things that needs to become a national 
movement, which, again, we talked about. I am out of time. I 
could continue our discussion the other day by another hour. I 
could do it again today, but I look forward to that in the 
future. Thank you so much for your service.
    Mr. Kvaal. Thank you, Senator.
    The Chair. Thank you.
    Senator Burr.
    Senator Burr. Thank you, Madam Chair. And Mr. Kvaal, some 
follow-up of--it is really housekeeping. These are yes or no 
answers. Oversight is an important function of Congress and 
hopefully that can be done in a bipartisan way.
    But if it is not, I intend to exercise my authority as 
Ranking Member of this Committee, just as Senator Murray did as 
Ranking Member. Question, do you commit to providing me and my 
staff with the information that I or the minority Members of 
the Committee request from the Department of Education within 
the requested timeframe?
    Mr. Kvaal. I do.
    Senator Burr. Do you commit to providing me and my staff 
with documents that I or other minority Members of the 
Committee request from the Department of Education within the 
requested timeframe?
    Mr. Kvaal. Yes.
    Senator Burr. Do you commit to providing me or my staff or 
other minority Members of the Committee with briefings request 
for you or your staff within the requested timeframe?
    Mr. Kvaal. Yes, I do.
    Senator Burr. Do you commit to providing the Department of 
Education Inspector General and the Government Accountability 
Office with any information, briefings, documents they might 
request?
    Mr. Kvaal. Yes.
    Senator Burr. Do you commit to testify, when called, before 
a Congressional Committee?
    Mr. Kvaal. I do.
    Senator Burr. Mr. Kvaal, thank you. I think you will be 
confirmed, and I will probably be supportive of that. Thank 
you, Madam Chair.
    The Chair. Thank you, Senator Burr. I do have one 
additional thing I want to say today. I have been very 
concerned by the way the Trump administration and Secretary 
DeVos failed to support survivors of sexual assault and defend 
the rights of all students to be safe and attend school without 
being discriminated against. No student should have to worry 
about their safety or being bullied or harassed or unwelcomed 
because of their race, religion, sex, sexual orientation or 
gender identity or disability.
    We have got to work together to hold institutions of higher 
education accountable for providing safe environments for all 
students, including holding them accountable for preventing and 
addressing sexual assault. I have heard from survivors across 
the country, and we have got to do better. I am encouraged by 
the department's recently announced plans to address this 
problem, including a robust and transparent process to make 
sure survivors, institutions of higher education, and families 
across our country can be heard. And I am looking forward to 
seeing meaningful actions with that.
    I will end this hearing and I want to thank my fellow 
Committee Members for their participation in today's hearing, 
and Mr. Kvaal, for taking the time today to talk with us about 
the challenges students and borrowers across the country are 
facing.
    For any Senators who wish to ask additional questions of 
the nominee, questions for the record will be due by Friday, 
April 16th, at 5 p.m. The hearing record will remain open for 
10 days for Members who wish to submit additional materials. 
For the record, the Committee has noticed an executive session 
to markup Mr. Kvaal's nomination on Wednesday, April 21st, 
along with the nominations of Julie Su to be Deputy Secretary 
of Labor, and Cindy Marten to be Deputy Secretary of Education.
    I look forward to all of these nominees being confirmed as 
quickly as possible so they can get to work. This Committee 
will next meet on Tuesday, April 20th in Dirksen 430 at 10 a.m. 
for a hearing on our workforce programs and the jobs crisis 
caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. With that, this meeting is now 
adjourned.

                          ADDITIONAL MATERIAL

   LETTERS OF SUPPORT FOR JAMES KVAAL, OF MASSACHUSETTS, TO BE UNDER 
                         SECRETARY OF EDUCATION

                                    Student Defense
                               1015 15th St. NW, Suite 600,
                                             Washington, DC
                                                      April 8, 2021
Hon. Patty Murray, Madam Chair,
Hon. Richard Burr, Ranking Member,
U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.

    Dear Madam Chair Murray and Ranking Member Burr:

    The undersigned organizations--representing students, 
student loan borrowers, veterans, and consumers--strongly 
support the confirmation of James Kvaal as Under Secretary of 
Education. Mr. Kvaal has an accomplished career as an advocate 
for students and economic opportunity, and his deep expertise 
and commitment make him an ideal candidate for this important 
role.

    As president of The Institute for College Access & Success 
(TICAS), Mr. Kvaal led one of the foremost organizations 
working to address college affordability and improve student 
financial aid through evidence-based policies and solutions. As 
deputy domestic policy adviser under President Barack Obama, 
Mr. Kvaal supported the administration's work fostering 
economic opportunity, working on many of the same issues he'll 
address as Under Secretary. From promoting affordable tuition, 
to combating predatory institutions and lenders, and working to 
increase graduation rates across the Nation, the breadth and 
relevance of Kvaal's experience are beyond question.

    The next Under Secretary of Education will come into office 
at a pivotal time. Colleges and universities are under 
tremendous financial stress, the chaotic rollout of distance 
learning has been stressful for faculty and students alike, and 
the long-term challenges in higher education have not gone 
anywhere. With his careful focus on the facts, thoughtfulness 
in approaching difficult problems, and passionate concern for 
students, Mr. Kvaal is well-positioned to lead the Nation's 
higher education policies at this time. The nation will be 
lucky to have James Kvaal in this essential role. We strongly 
support his confirmation, and look forward to working with him 
to advance student success.

            Sincerely,
                                             Accountable.US

     American Association of Colleges for Teacher Education

                            American Federation of Teachers

                           Campaign for College Opportunity

                          Campaign for Free College Tuition

                                       Education Reform Now

                      Institute for Higher Education Policy

      National Association for College Admission Counseling

                    National Center for Teacher Residencies

                             National Education Association

                       New America Higher Education Program

              Organizations Concerned About Rural Education

                       Project on Predatory Student Lending

                        Rebuild America's Schools Coalition

                           Rural School and Community Trust

                         Student Borrower Protection Center

                                            Student Defense

                                                  Third Way

                 U.S. Public Interest Research Group (PIRG)

                                                   UnidosUS

                                 Veterans Education Success
                                ------                                

                      Frederick S. Edelstein, Ph.D.
                                    4413 East Sawmill Road,
                                            Park City, Utah
                                                      April 9, 2021
Hon. Patty Murray, Madam Chair,
Hon. Richard Burr, Ranking Member,
U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.

    Dear Madam Chair Murray and Ranking Member Burr:

    I'm writing to you in support of the nomination and confirmation of 
James Kvaal to be Under Secretary of Education at the U.S. Department 
of Education. Having known James for about 25 years, he is a very 
impressive and qualified individual for this position.

    I first met James while serving as Director of Constituent 
Relations and Outreach at the Department beginning with the tenure of 
U.S. Secretary of Education Richard Riley and continuing in that 
position when Rodney Paige became the U.S. Secretary of Education. 
During my 31 years as a career civil servant in both HEW and the U.S. 
Department of Education, I held a variety of positions.

    I worked with James on numerous postsecondary education and general 
education policy issues. He was always knowledgeable, thoughtful, and 
engaged on every issue which he worked. From my work experiences with 
him, unquestionably he is a team player. James is both unassuming and 
affable which is an enormous asset when one serves in such an important 
position as Under Secretary. He brings knowledge about and experience 
in the Department and the Federal Government, which is an important 
asset when serving in the position of Under Secretary. James is a very 
good listener to all points of view. In my opinion, you will not find a 
more dedicated public servant.

    Throughout these many years, we have stayed in touch and discussed 
various policy issues while he served in government as well as at other 
times when he held positions outside of government.

    James has earned the respect of the education community, especially 
those involved in postsecondary education.

    As I stated earlier, he is extremely qualified for the Under 
Secretary position and has earned this nomination through years of 
important and cutting-edge work in an array public policy issues.

            Sincerely,
                                    Frederick S. Edelstein,
                                                              Ph.D.
                                 ______
                                 
                      American Council on Education
                                                     April 14, 2021
Hon. Patty Murray, Madam Chair,
Hon. Richard Burr, Ranking Member,
U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.

    Dear Madam Chair Murray and Ranking Member Burr:

    On behalf of the undersigned higher education associations, I write 
to express our enthusiastic support for James Kvaal, who has been 
nominated to serve as Under Secretary in the U.S. Department of 
Education. Our endorsement reflects the profound respect our members 
have for Mr. Kvaal's judgment, expertise, and professionalism, 
qualities he has consistently demonstrated in and out of government.

    Throughout an accomplished career in the public and private 
sectors, Mr. Kvaal has distinguished himself through his deep knowledge 
of higher education and Federal postsecondary policy. With his 
extensive experience working in the Senate, the House of 
Representatives, the White House, the Department of Education, and as a 
professor, Mr. Kvaal will bring comprehensive knowledge of the design, 
implementation, and management of Federal programs to the role of Under 
Secretary.

    Perhaps more importantly, this wealth of skill and experience has 
always been focused first and foremost on elevating the needs of 
students and their families to the center of policymaking. In his 
current role as president of The Institute for College Access and 
Success (TICAS), Mr. Kvaal has continued this dedication to ensuring 
that all students have an equal opportunity to succeed in postsecondary 
education.

    Considering the importance of the federal role in higher education, 
it is critical that the position of Under Secretary be filled by 
someone with the judgment, experience, personal commitment, and vision 
necessary to succeed in this role. For this reason, we strongly urge 
your Members to support Mr. Kvaal's nomination when he comes before the 
Committee for a hearing.

            Sincerely,
                                              Ted Mitchell,
                                                  President

                                              On behalf of:

                                        Achieving the Dream

               ACPA-College Student Educators International

                                                        ACT

     American Association of Colleges for Teacher Education

         American Association of Collegiate Registrars and 
                                        Admissions Officers

                 American Association of Community Colleges

    American Association of State Colleges and Universities

              American Association of University Professors

                              American Council on Education

             APPA, ``Leadership in Educational Facilities''

                   Association of American Medical Colleges

                       Association of American Universities

          Association of Catholic Colleges and Universities

                  Association of Community College Trustees

       Association of Governing Boards of Universities and 
                                                   Colleges

   Association of Independent Colleges and Universities in 
                                               Pennsylvania

            Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities

          Association of Public and Land-grant Universities

                          Association of Research Libraries

        Association of Schools Advancing Health Professions

                                              College Board

           Council for Advancement and Support of Education

              Council for Christian Colleges & Universities

                 Council for Higher Education Accreditation

                       Council for Opportunity in Education

                                Council of Graduate Schools

                            Council of Independent Colleges

                                                   EDUCAUSE

                                                        ETS

                   Higher Education Consultants Association

                            Higher Education Loan Coalition

       International Association of Campus Law Enforcement 
                                             Administrators

   NASPA-Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education

      National Association for College Admission Counseling

   National Association of College and University Business 
                                                   Officers

             National Association of Colleges and Employers

          National Association of Independent Colleges and 
                                               Universities

                       National Association of System Heads

  National Council for Community and Education Partnerships

      State Higher Education Executive Officers Association

                                                       TMCF

                                                      UPCEA
                                 ______
                                 
               Council for Opportunity in Education
                          1025 Vermont Ave., NW, Suite 400,
                                             Washington, DC
                                                     April 12, 2021
Hon. Patty Murray, Madam Chair,
Hon. Richard Burr, Ranking Member,
U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.

    Dear Madam Chair Murray and Ranking Member Burr:

    As President of the Council for Opportunity in Education (COE), 
which represents nearly 1,000 institutions of higher education and 
community-based agencies committed to expanding college opportunity 
through college access and success programs for low-income and first-
generation students, I write in strong support of the confirmation of 
James Kvaal, who has been nominated to serve as Under Secretary of 
Education in the U.S. Department of Education. Throughout his career, 
Mr. Kvaal has placed the highest priority on providing opportunity for 
upward mobility to students from low-income and first-generation 
backgrounds and students with disabilities, as well as to veterans and 
adults displaced or seeking advancement in the workforce.

    Mr. Kvaal's long career in both the public and private sectors has 
focused on assuring equity in higher education. He possesses a 
comprehensive knowledge of Federal policy that is not limited to the 
design of programs but also includes a deep understanding of how the 
implementation and management of the programs affects their likelihood 
of achieving their intended purposes. Mr. Kvaal has been deliberate in 
understanding the interaction between financial and non-financial 
obstacles that limit degree completion for low-income and first-
generation students and how Federal efforts, including TRIO and GEAR 
UP, address those obstacles and contribute to a greater return on 
Federal financial aid.

    Mr. Kvaal is a thoughtful leader who not only listens to a wide 
range of opinions and viewpoints but actively solicits input from many 
constituencies. His considered judgment reinforces confidence in those 
working with him and his commitment and dedication to the goals of the 
Higher Education Act, and the Act itself, are unquestioned. On behalf 
of our membership and on behalf of the thousands of educators working 
in TRIO programs, COE endorses Mr. Kvaal's nomination and urges your 
Members to support it. We are confident that his stewardship of higher 
education programs in the U.S. Department of Education will benefit 
millions of low-income and first-generation students and families who 
look to higher education as a path to mobility and as a means to 
realizing their aspirations.

            Sincerely,
                                            Maureen Hoyler,
                                                  President
                                 ______
                                 
                                              NAICU
                      1025 Connecticut Ave., NW, Suite 700,
                                             Washington, DC
                                                      March 1, 2021
Hon. Patty Murray, Madam Chair,
Hon. Richard Burr, Ranking Member,
U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.

    Dear Madam Chair Murray and Ranking Member Burr:

    As the president of the National Association of Independent 
Colleges and Universities (NAICU), I am writing to endorse the 
nomination of James Kvaal for the position of Under Secretary for 
Education, the top higher education post at the Department. Mr. Kvaal 
is experienced, understands the complexities of higher education and is 
a reasonable and approachable policymaker.

    NAICU has worked with Mr. Kvaal since his early days in the Senate, 
and continued that work throughout his tenure with the Obama 
administration and as he served as the president of The Institute for 
College Access and Success (TICAS). Throughout his career he has 
championed many important improvements to the Federal student aid 
programs. While we have not always agreed on every policy proposal he 
has put forward, we do agree with his commitment to put the needs of 
students first and his continual openness to dialog. We find his 
knowledge and reasonableness his most important attributes to be 
successful in this position.

    The National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities 
(NAICU) serves as the unified voice of private, nonprofit higher 
education. NAICU's membership reflects the diversity of private, 
nonprofit higher education in the U.S. Our member institutions include 
major research universities, faith-based colleges, Historically Black 
Colleges and Universities, Minority-Serving Institutions, art and 
design colleges, traditional liberal arts and science institutions, 
women's colleges, work colleges, two-year colleges, and schools of law, 
medicine, engineering, business, and other professions. With more than 
5 million students attending 1,700 independent colleges and 
universities in all 50 states, and more than 1 million employees, the 
private sector of American higher education has a dramatic impact on 
our Nation's larger public interests.

    I look forward to working with you and Mr. Kvaal in the days ahead 
to create opportunities for greater access and affordability for all 
who seek a higher education.

            Sincerely,

                                        Barbara K. Mistick,
                                                  President
                                 ______
                                 
                                Opportunity America
                                                      April 6, 2021
Hon. Patty Murray, Madam Chair,
Hon. Richard Burr, Ranking Member,
U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.

    Dear Madam Chair Murray and Ranking Member Burr:

    I write to encourage you to support the confirmation of James Kvaal 
as Under Secretary of Education.

    Few people are better prepared for the job: deeply knowledgeable 
about the issues at the forefront of the higher education debate and 
experienced in using the levers of Federal policy to advance change 
nationwide. James and I do not agree on every issue, but I have always 
found him deeply thoughtful and willing to collaborate across party 
lines. I believe he is also genuinely committed to creating 
opportunities for poor and working Americans.

    Opportunity America is a Washington think tank and policy shop 
promoting economic mobility--work, skills, careers, ownership and 
entrepreneurship for poor and working Americans. Our principal 
activities are research, policy development, dissemination of policy 
ideas and working to build consensus around policy proposals. Among 
other projects, Opportunity America manages a coalition of employers 
and employer associations working to improve policy on workforce 
issues.

    James and I have spoken often over the years about the twin 
imperatives of opportunity and upward mobility. In contrast to many 
postsecondary policy thinkers, he understands the importance of 
community colleges, job training and high-quality associate degrees and 
certificates--understands that these are essential tools in any 
strategy to fight poverty and raise living standards. Even when we have 
disagreed, he has worked to find common ground, identifying practical 
solutions and building a consensus for change.

    I look forward to working with you and James toward a higher 
education system that enhances economic opportunity and upward mobility 
for all Americans.

            Yours sincerely,
                                              Tamar Jacoby,
                                                  President
                                 ______
                                 
                                               RAMC
                                                      April 7, 2021
Hon. Patty Murray, Madam Chair,
Hon. Richard Burr, Ranking Member,
U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.

    Dear Madam Chair Murray and Ranking Member Burr:

    On behalf of Rebuilding America's Middle Class (RAMC), I am writing 
to express my support for the nomination of James Kvaal for Under 
Secretary of Education. If confirmed, Mr. Kvaal's long and effective 
experience in working to advance higher education policy to improve 
student and institutional success will be of great benefit to our 
Nation.

    Federal student aid and related programs funded by the U.S. 
Department of Education (ED) are vital to the success of community 
college students in our Nation. Without these programs, many students 
would not be able to earn the certificate or degree to obtain 
employment or advance in their careers. Mr. Kvaal's leadership during 
his work for previous administrations and in Congress has always 
recognized the economic and societal power of obtaining a postsecondary 
education. The recognition of the importance of a higher education to 
one's future earnings and career success is more critical now than ever 
as we work to recover from the economic disruptions caused by the 
ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.

    Mr. Kvaal's leadership does not simply stop with well intentions, 
but instead has led to action and results. Throughout his career, Mr. 
Kvaal has always sought to put the interests of community colleges and 
the students which we serve in the forefront. If confirmed, I am 
confident that Mr. Kvaal's thoughtful and effective leadership will 
continue to help us advance the mission of educating America's 
community college students. I also believe Mr. Kvaal's expertise is 
needed at ED to aid our students during this crisis and ensure America 
has the educated and trained workforce to rebuild our economy.

    Given this, we urge you to quickly consider and confirm Mr. Kvaal 
as the next United States Under Secretary of Education. Thank you in 
advance for your consideration of these views and I look forward to 
continuing our work together to advance the opportunities for all of 
our students and their families to ensure that their needs are met 
during these unprecedented times.

            Sincerely,
                                                   Joe May,
                                               Board Chair,
                   Rebuilding America's Middle Class (RAMC)
                                 Chancellor, Dallas College
                                 ______
                                 
                                Results for America
                                                     April 12, 2021
Hon. Patty Murray, Madam Chair,
Hon. Richard Burr, Ranking Member,
U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.

    Dear Madam Chair Murray and Ranking Member Burr:

    As nonpartisan organizations and individuals committed to improving 
the effectiveness of government through evidence and data, we are 
writing to endorse the nomination of James Kvaal to be the Under 
Secretary at the Department of Education. Through his long government 
career, Mr. Kvaal has demonstrated his commitment to using evidence and 
data to help solve many of the problems facing our Nation.

    Many of us worked with Mr. Kvaal during his senior roles on the 
House Education and Workforce Committee, at the Department of 
Education, and the White House Domestic Policy Council. As a senior 
White House official, he consistently sought to inform policy decisions 
with the best available evidence. He worked to apply evidence-based 
policy strategies across domestic policy changes, brought together 
Federal agencies to produce new data to inform college choices, and 
called on college presidents to commit to take evidence-based steps to 
help students graduate from college. As President of The Institute for 
College Access and Success, he emphasized quality research and 
supported policies to help colleges use proven practices to help 
students graduate.

    As Under Secretary, we believe Mr. Kvaal will combine his passion 
for improving educational equity with a commitment to grounding 
decisions in evidence and data.

            Sincerely,
               [Organizations listed in alphabetical order]

                                                A+ Colorado

                           Alliance for Excellent Education

                                            America Forward

               AppleTree Institute for Education Innovation

                                                     Braven

                        Cascade Philanthropy Advisors, Inc.

      Center for Research and Reform in Education at Johns 
                                         Hopkins University

                                   EDGE Consulting Partners

                                        Education Northwest

                                       Education Reform Now

                                    Excelencia in Education

                                    Friends of the Children

              National Institute for Excellence in Teaching

                       New America Higher Education Program

                                        Results for America

                                             StriveTogether

                                 Success for All Foundation

                                                  TeachPlus

                                           John Bridgeland,
        Former Director Domestic Policy Council (G.W. Bush 
                      administration), Founder & CEO, CIVIC

                                             Cecilia Munoz,
           Former Director, Domestic Policy Council (Obama 
                administration), Senior Advisor New America
                                 ______
                                 
    [Whereupon, at 11:32 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                                 [all]