[Senate Hearing 117-145]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 117-145

                          FINANCIAL LITERACY:
                   ADDRESSING THE UNIQUE JUST-IN-TIME
                     DECISIONS OLDER AMERICANS AND
                     PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES FACE

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS


                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             WASHINGTON, DC

                               __________

                            JANUARY 13, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-11

         Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging
         
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]         


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                               __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
46-688 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022                     
          
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                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

              ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania, Chairman

KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine
ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      RICHARD BURR, North Carolina
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  MARCO RUBIO, Florida
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             RICK SCOTT, Florida
                                     MIKE LEE, Utah
                              ----------                              
                 Stacy Sanders, Majority Staff Director
                 Neri Martinez, Minority Staff Director
                         
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                                                                   Page

Opening Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman......     1
Opening Statement of Senator Tim Scott, Ranking Member...........     3

                           PANEL OF WITNESSES

Gerry Walsh, Senior Vice President of Investor Education, 
  Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, Washington, D.C.......     5
Cindy Hounsell, President and Founder, Women's Institute for a 
  Secure Retirement, Washington, D.C.............................     6
Dorothea Bernique, Founder and Executive Director, Increasing 
  H.O.P.E., North Charleston, South Carolina.....................     8
Patti Szarowicz, Aging and Disability Resource Counselor, Atlanta 
  Regional Commission, Area Agency on Aging, Atlanta, Georgia....    10

                           CLOSING STATEMENT

Closing Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman......    22

                                APPENDIX
                      Prepared Witness Statements

Gerry Walsh, Senior Vice President of Investor Education, 
  Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, Washington, D.C.......    29
Cindy Hounsell, President and Founder, Women's Institute for a 
  Secure Retirement, Washington, D.C.............................    49
Dorothea Bernique, Founder and Executive Director, Increasing 
  H.O.P.E., North Charleston, South Carolina.....................    58
Patti Szarowicz, Aging and Disability Resource Counselor, Atlanta 
  Regional Commission, Area Agency on Aging, Atlanta, Georgia....    60

                        Questions for the Record

Gerry Walsh, Senior Vice President of Investor Education, 
  Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, Washington, D.C.......    65
Cindy Hounsell, President and Founder, Women's Institute for a 
  Secure Retirement, Washington, D.C.............................    72
Dorothea Bernique, Founder and Executive Director, Increasing 
  H.O.P.E., North Charleston, South Carolina.....................    75
Patti Szarowicz, Aging and Disability Resource Counselor, Atlanta 
  Regional Commission, Area Agency on Aging, Atlanta, Georgia....    76

                  Additional Statements for the Record

Credit Union National Association................................    83
Alzheimer's Impact Movement......................................    84

 
                          FINANCIAL LITERACY:
                   ADDRESSING THE UNIQUE JUST-IN-TIME
                     DECISIONS OLDER AMERICANS AND
                     PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES FACE

                              ----------                              


                       THURSDAY, JANUARY 13, 2022

                                       U.S. Senate,
                                Special Committee on Aging,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m., via 
Webex, Hon. Robert P. Casey, Chairman of the Committee, 
presiding.
    Present: Senators Casey, Gillibrand, Blumenthal, Warren, 
Rosen, Kelly, Warnock, Tim Scott, Braun, and Rick Scott.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                 ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., CHAIRMAN

    The Chairman. The Senate Special Committee on Aging will 
come to order.
    Before we turn to today's topic, I want to commend the 
Committee members and the work of this Committee during the 
first session of the 117th Congress. This is the tenth hearing 
that I have held as Chair, along with Ranking Member Scott, and 
our first hearing of 2022. Ranking Member Scott, I want to 
thank you for your continued partnership and the work we have 
done together.
    Today's hearing will examine the decisions that millions of 
older Americans make every year, involving their income, their 
savings, insurance, homes, and so many issues. These choices 
that they make can have lasting consequences for their lives.
    Today the Committee is also releasing a bipartisan report 
on the help Americans need to make these critical decisions. I 
am holding up the report if you cannot see it. It is entitled 
``Financial Literacy in Retirement.'' The subheading is 
``Providing Just-in-Time Information and Assistance to Older 
Americans and People with Disabilities.'' That will be 
available on a lot of platforms and through Senate offices and 
back in our states. Whoever wants copies of that, we can 
provide those. It is critically important that we compile 
reports like this and I want to thank the staff for the good 
work that they have done to make that possible.
    We are also going to disseminate a brochure. The brochure 
is entitled ``Retirement Decisions,'' all kinds of information 
about the difficult decisions that people have to make before 
and even during their retirement.
    We know that, for example, this year nearly 11,000 
Americans will turn age 65 every single day--11,000 a day. In 
my home State of Pennsylvania that number is about 460 
Pennsylvanians who will turn 65 each day.
    As just one example, many of the Americans reaching this 
milestone can benefit from real-time information on how to sign 
up for Medicare, for example. One such person is in my home 
State of Pennsylvania, from Beaver County, Rochester, 
Pennsylvania, is Charlotte Zgoda. Charlotte contacted our 
office way back in 2019. Charlotte's husband always took care 
of their finances, but when he passed away she was not able to 
keep his health plan. When she tried to sign up for Medicare 
she learned she would have to pay a Part B late enrollment fee, 
and that fee was for life. Had she and her husband received the 
support they needed when they approached age 65, Charlotte 
believes they would have been able to make a more informed 
decision.
    Many families face these kinds of challenges. When nearing 
retirement, Americans face so many important and complex 
financial decisions. These decisions can be daunting for 
anyone, no matter who you are.
    People, of course, want timely information and help from a 
trusted source of information. They seek assistance in making 
the right financial decision for themselves and for their 
families, but they often do not know where to turn. Last year, 
my constituent services team received over 1,000 calls and 
emails from Pennsylvanians on these issues. Thankfully, both 
Congress and the White House have committed to helping 
Americans demystify these financial decisions.
    In December, President Biden released an Executive order 
intended to enhance the consumer experience and align services 
to support people at critical moments, like turning 65. In the 
last Congress, some provisions of a bill that I worked on with 
Senator Young, the so-called BENES Act--here is a long name for 
it, the Medicare Beneficiary Enrollment Notification and 
Eligibility Simplification Act. We need acronyms when we have 
that, B-E-N-E-S, BENES--portions of that legislation was signed 
into law. These provisions make sure that fewer people 
experience a gap in health coverage after enrolling in 
Medicare. It is also why I am committed to working with Senator 
Young and others to reintroduce additional provisions from this 
bill.
    These policies ensure Americans receive timely notice about 
when and how to sign up for Medicare and fair warning about the 
penalties that can result from delay. Across kitchen tables all 
across the country, retirees and seniors are asking some basic 
questions. ``Should I take my Social Security, or should I 
wait?'' Second, they might be asking, ``Do I need to sign up 
for Medicare, or can I wait?'' Third, they might be asking, 
``Is it time to sell my home?'' These are not simple decisions 
for anyone. Our witness panel will shed lots of light on the 
information Americans need, ``just in time'' to succeed.
    With that, I want to turn to Ranking Member Scott for his 
opening remarks.
    [pause] Sorry about that. I guess that Senator Scott might 
be having technical issues.
    I wanted to, in the interim, acknowledge members of the 
Aging Committee who are with us today, and obviously, some 
people will be available now and some people may have to leave 
to go to another hearing or another engagement and then will 
come back. Senator Rick Scott and Senator Jacky Rosen.
    In the interim, while we fix some of our technical issues, 
I wanted to start to go through our witness introductions. I 
will start, and then we can take a pause for Senator Scott, 
whenever that is appropriate.
    Let me start with our first witness. Our first witness is 
Gerri Walsh from the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority. 
Ms. Walsh serves as the Senior Vice President of Investor 
Education. She is responsible for developing a wide range of 
research and educational initiatives to address systemic wealth 
disparities for underserved communities. We want to thank Ms. 
Walsh for being with us.
    Our second witness is Cindy Hounsell. Cindy is the 
President and Founder of the Women's Institute for a Secure 
Retirement, goes by the acronym WISER. Cindy has dedicated her 
professional life to setting women up for success in 
retirement. The organization, WISER, works to provide financial 
literacy and support to women across the Nation.
    I will turn to a third witness and then we will get to our 
fourth witness. Patty Szarowicz hails from Atlanta, Georgia. 
Ms. Szarowicz has 15 years of experience with the Aging and 
Information Services Unit at the Atlanta Regional Commission. 
She helps senior receive benefits and locate services. Ms. 
Szarowicz, I wanted her to know that Senator Warnock, who is a 
member of our Committee, will be joining us later for 
questions, and he and all of us want to hear about your great 
work in your home State of Georgia.
    At this point I will take a brief pause to see if we have 
fixed some of the technical issues.
    Senator Tim Scott. Mr. Chairman, can you hear me?
    The Chairman. Yes.
    Senator Tim Scott. Okay. Sorry you cannot see me. Maybe 
that is better for everybody that you cannot see me today. I am 
happy to be with you all, even by phone. I apologize for the 
technical difficulties that we are experiencing trying to 
connect.
    I can hear everyone fine by the way, and I can see you 
fine. I just cannot get my system to work.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                   TIM SCOTT, RANKING MEMBER

    Senator Tim Scott. Let me thank Chairman Casey for holding 
this really important hearing on financial literacy. Financial 
literacy is critical to learn as early in life as possible.
    Like the Chairman mentioned, as a testament to the 
importance of financial literacy for older Americans, the 
Committee is working on our annual bipartisan report, and this 
year it is on financial literacy. As a kid who was raised in a 
single-parent household mired in poverty, but blessed with a 
loving mother, I understand and appreciate the importance of 
learning financial principles as early in life as possible. It 
is one of the reasons why I co-chair the Financial Literacy 
Caucus along with Senator Jack Reed. Since 2015, we have 
declared April as Financial Literacy Month through a resolution 
in a bipartisan fashion.
    South Carolina is one of the 21 states that requires high 
school students to take a course on financial literacy. There 
is a non-profit in our State called SC Economics, whose mission 
is to provide training and resources to educators. They have 
trained nearly 2,500 teachers and reached more than 235,000 
students in South Carolina with their financial literacy 
curriculum. It is never too late to learn the importance of 
financial literacy.
    Part of my focus is making sure that every American, and 
particularly our senior Americans, have an opportunity to 
understand and appreciate and to benefit from financial 
literacy. One of the reasons why this is so important for our 
seniors we can see demonstrated through an experience at 
Citizens Bank in a small rural town in South Carolina called 
Johnsonville, in Florence County. It has trained its employees 
to look for suspicious activity and provide seniors the support 
they need.
    The example that I am talking about was when a 60-year-old 
disabled senior came into the bank and asked for an $8,000 
cashier's check. The trained employee understood that this was 
unusual for this senior and proceeded to ask a few important 
questions. Ultimately, the bank employee discovered that the 
senior was involved in a romance scam, and was able to stop the 
senior from sending $8,000 to someone and never seeing the 
money again. Educating our seniors on when it is safe and when 
it is not safe to transfer money is a critical component of 
financial literacy.
    I am also pleased to have dedicated and committed South 
Carolinians like Dorothea Bernique of Increasing H.O.P.E., who 
has helped countless seniors through financial literacy 
programs and helped them to maintain and to achieve their 
version of the American dream.
    To have financial literacy we must have financial 
inclusion. That is why it is so important to continue to work 
in many ways to advance the cause of equal access to 
opportunity throughout our country.
    Building on financial inclusion, I have also introduced, 
along with Senator Joe Manchin, the Credit Access and Inclusion 
Act of 2021, to expand access to credit for an estimated 45 
million Americans with no credit history. When you pay your 
bills on time, it should help improve your credit. It is kind 
of that simple.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
    The Chairman. Ranking Member Scott, thank you very much for 
your opening statement.
    The one thing that did not do in the interim is introduce 
Ms. Bernique. Ranking Member Scott, can you?
    Senator Tim Scott. Happy to do so. Thank you. Yes, sir, Mr. 
Chairman. I am pleased to introduce an individual who is 
working tirelessly to improve financial literacy across the 
Palmetto State, and that person, as I just mentioned, Dorothea 
Bernique. Dorothea is the Founder and Executive Director of 
Increasing H.O.P.E., which stands for Helping Others Prosper 
Economically. She is located in Charleston, South Carolina.
    For the past 16 years, Increasing H.O.P.E. has helped South 
Carolinians realize their American dream, by improving their 
financial literacy. Ms. Bernique's testimony today is based on 
her extensive work and experience on the ground working with 
individuals, families, and specifically, older Americans to 
become more educated in personal finance.
    I want to thank Dorothea for being here today and for doing 
such good work on behalf of our State and every single person 
who lives there, and we look forward to your testimony.
    The Chairman. Ranking Member Scott, thank you very much for 
that introduction. Now we will turn to our witnesses' 
statements. We will start with Ms. Gerri Walsh.
    Ms. Walsh, you may begin your statement.

             STATEMENT OF GERRI WALSH, SENIOR VICE

           PRESIDENT OF INVESTOR EDUCATION, FINANCIAL

        INDUSTRY REGULATORY AUTHORITY, WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Ms. Walsh. Chairman Casey, Ranking Member Scott, and 
members of the Committee, on behalf of FINRA and the FINRA 
Investor Education Foundation, thank you for the opportunity to 
appear today.
    FINRA is not-for-profit, self-regulatory organization that 
works with the Securities and Exchange Commission to regulate 
broker-dealers, over 600,000 individuals and 3,400 firms. 
FINRA's mission is to protect investors and promote market 
integrity. As part of that mission, we focus, alongside the 
FINRA Foundation, on research and education to help Americans 
achieve financial security.
    FINRA makes investor protection for senior investors and 
vulnerable adults a top priority. We have rules focused on 
these populations and we work with stakeholders to enhance the 
investor protection safety net. For example, last year FINRA, 
Securities and Exchange Commission staff, and State regulators 
developed specialized industry training on the Senior Safe Act, 
legislation this Committee knows well. While not all harm 
results from sales practice abuse, FINRA take swift action 
against broker-dealer misconduct.
    At the same time, we believe investor knowledge is key to 
prevent harm, especially for older adults. Americans entering 
retirement face consequential decisions about health care and 
how to turn years of hard-earned savings into income lasting 
for the rest of their lives. Pivoting from asset accumulation 
to spending down assets, retirees often must make once-in-a-
lifetime choices they typically cannot undo. One wrong decision 
can upend decades of careful financial planning.
    That is why FINRA provides free, unbiased resources to help 
Americans better understand the risks and rewards of investing, 
how markets work, and how avoid scams and other financial 
pitfalls. It is also why the FINRA Foundation spends 
significant resources on research that we share widely. The 
Foundation's National Financial Capability Study has revealed 
that financial knowledge among U.S. adults is low and has 
decreased over time. In 2009, 42 percent had high financial 
literacy, by 2018, only 34 percent, and an early look at the 
2021 data collection suggests levels have fallen slightly 
further. We see the largest decline among Americans ages 18 to 
34. Separately, we see demographic differences for women and 
most people of color.
    For adults with disabilities, the stakes are even greater. 
This is, in part, because the cost of living for Americans with 
disabilities is 29 percent higher than for those without 
disabilities, according to a study funded by the Foundation. 
Other Foundation-funded studies have shown that knowledge about 
financial and health matters generally declines with age, with 
a faster rate of decline tied to such things as poorer 
decision-making, a higher susceptibility to scams, and lower 
psychological well-being. Overestimating one's cognitive skills 
has also been tied to poor decision-making, as has loneliness 
when paired with low cognition.
    Beyond research, the Foundation assists Americans on 
numerous investing and personal finance topics, from investing 
basics to managing retirement income and even dealing with the 
aftermath of natural disasters. We have worked with dozens of 
partners, empowering them to reach people where they live, 
learn, and earn, through key channels such as public libraries 
and workplaces, and we team up with fellow regulators and 
national nonprofits to train intermediaries to combat financial 
fraud. You can learn more at finra.org/investors.
    In conclusion, we share your belief that bolstering and 
maintaining financial literacy in older and vulnerable 
populations could yield numerous benefits, including better 
decision-making, reducing scams susceptibility, and greater 
psychological well-being. Where it can, I encourage Congress to 
support research that further explores the nexus between 
financial capability and aging and examining what works in 
financial education. I also believe enhanced support for State 
adult protective service programs, especially those that handle 
financial exploitation cases, will help better protect older 
and vulnerable Americans.
    FINRA and the FINRA Foundation are fully committed to 
helping Americans build a secure financial future. Thank you 
again for inviting me to testify. I am pleased to answer any 
questions you may have.
    The Chairman. Ms. Walsh, thanks very much for your 
testimony, and you had a couple of seconds to spare, so thank 
you.
    Our next witness is Cindy Hounsell. You may begin.
    [Pause.] Cindy, I think you are muted.

           STATEMENT OF CINDY HOUNSELL, PRESIDENT AND

            FOUNDER, WOMEN'S INSTITUTE FOR A SECURE

                  RETIREMENT, WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Ms. Hounsell. Okay. Here we go.
    Good morning. Thanks to the Committee for inviting us to 
participate. I am Cindy Hounsell, President of the nonprofit 
WISER, a 25-year-old nonprofit that works to help women, 
educators, and policymakers address the complicated issues that 
affect women's retirement planning.
    Our 5-minute statement, which I hope will not be 6 minutes, 
will focus on the issues WISER was asked to address, namely 
retirement challenges that women face, the need for targeted 
financial information, the need for more retirement income, and 
how WISER addresses these challenges to reach underserved and 
under-resourced communities by providing financial literacy 
programs.
    WISER partners with diverse nonprofit groups, companies, 
plan sponsors, credit unions, financial institutions, and 
financial planners to ensure there is community buy-in and 
follow-up. We regularly collaborate with government agencies--
the Social Security Administration, Consumer Financial 
Protection Bureau, and the Securities and Exchange Commission.
    The audience: midlife and older women, underserved, low-
income women, Black women, Latinas, Native Americans, as well 
as women in rural areas, women with disabilities, caregivers, 
and limited English speakers, who are all prominent in our 
work. We find these women are eager to learn financial basics 
and take action with how-to information.
    Why women? That is one of the first questions we get. Well, 
because women live longer and they need more retirement income, 
and they generally have less, plus at age 65, there nearly six 
million more women than men, and by age 85, women make up 
nearly 70 percent of that population. Many of the 85-plus group 
end up near or in poverty, even if they have never been poor 
before. This is especially common for women living alone and 
for minority women.
    Why financial literacy? Research confirms women generally 
have lower levels of financial literacy than men and that 
literacy is directly linked to overall financial well-being. 
The bigger problem is the not knowing--not knowing what they 
need to know to make the best decisions or to take advantage of 
benefits they might otherwise miss out on.
    WISER's key initiative is the National Resource Center on 
women and Retirement, and that resource center is administrated 
and funded by HHS through the Administration on Aging and its 
Older Americans Act programs.
    Retirement is a complicated time of life and it is made up 
of complicated systems. Most working women living paycheck to 
paycheck cannot afford even the smallest financial mistake, and 
often life events such as divorce and widowhood have 
significant impact on their financial lives. The Center 
provides critical retirement planning information that helps 
women navigate these real-life changing situations. For 
example, one of our award-winning guides, ``Going It Alone: A 
Guide for Widows,'' takes the reader step by step through the 
process of claiming benefits.
    Targeted outreach. We are often asked how do we reach the 
women, as the Center has directly reached hundreds of thousands 
of women through WISER's and our partners' workshops and 
reached millions through publications. The answer is our 
partners help us succeed.
    Two nonprofits that WISER has worked with for a long time 
are MANA, a national Latina organization, a group with 25 
chapters, and the National Caucus & Center on Black Aging, 
which serves the Black/African American community through 
several State and local programs.
    The importance of trusted messengers means that the success 
in reaching these organizations results from the adaptability 
and flexibility needed to make programs work. We provide the 
partners with specialized education programs, segmented for the 
appropriate audience, and nearly ever experience is successful, 
as proven by pre-and post-testing. Unfortunately, these 
programs cannot eliminate the racial asset gaps, but they 
provide real hope, resources, and ways to improve individual 
finances in a complicated economy.
    In conclusion, I would just like to focus on some of the 
improvements that we see are needed desperately in the 
retirement system, including the following: improving and 
educating workers about the Saver's Tax Credit, credit for 
family caregivers; educating workers about auto portability, 
which lowers the annual cash-out rates for job changes; 
strengthening Social Security and Medicare so that average 
workers know how the systems work; expanding Social Security 
benefits for widows and divorced women by removing outdated 
claiming restrictions; and updating the supplemental security 
income rules by removing restrictions causing extremely low-
income women to live well below the poverty level.
    Thank you very much.
    The Chairman. Ms. Hounsell, thanks very much for your 
testimony.
    Our third witness is Dorothea Bernique. Ms. Bernique, you 
may begin.

          STATEMENT OF DOROTHEA BERNIQUE, FOUNDER AND

            EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INCREASING H.O.P.E.,

                NORTH CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA

    Ms. Bernique. Good morning, Senator Casey and Ranking 
Member Scott. Thank you so much for having me this morning. My 
name is Dorothea Bernique and I am the Founder and Executive 
Director of Increasing H.O.P.E. Financial Training Center. It 
does stand for Helping Others Prosper Economically.
    When I started my career several years ago as a financial 
representative, I thought this was the way that I was supposed 
to help teach individuals in the community learn how to manage 
their money. Little did I know the need was so much greater 
than I had ever imagined, and I was clearly made aware of it on 
the day that I decided to leave my job.
    On this day, a client had come in to talk about making an 
investment. She had called to set up an appointment and was 
driven by her daughter to our appointment. Part way through our 
conversation, she leaned in a little closer to me and 
whispered, ``Ms. Dorothea, what is investing?'' That was the 
day I gave myself a pink slip and decided to walk away from a 
career to start Increasing H.O.P.E. I knew that the need was 
great and that educating clients about financial literacy and 
financial products was not enough.
    Financial well-being is defined as an individual has the 
ability to control their day-to-day and month-to-month 
finances, they have the capacity to absorb a financial shock, 
and they can stay on track with their financial goals, and 
finally, they have the ability to make financial choices so 
that they can enjoy life.
    The lack of basic financial literacy of individuals, no 
matter what the income level, is low as a result of low 
financial literacy. Twenty-nine percent of South Carolina 
consumers have credit cards which have outstanding debt of 75 
percent or more. Twenty-nine percent of the consumers have 
credit cards with 75 percent credit limits mastered out. 
Fifteen percent of South Carolina households have a zero 
percent net worth. Finally, 14.4 percent have households 
reporting falling behind on their bills within the last 12 
months.
    We know that this number is now even astronomically higher 
due to COVID and the fact that 14.9 percent of households have 
a poverty rate threshold and have a lack of basic financial 
knowledge. This results in a very low well-being score of 18 
percent for South Carolina. It means that they are not in 
control of their everyday finances, they do not have the 
ability to absorb financial shock that COVID has presented, are 
they are not on track to meet their financial goals.
    The end result is not having the ability to make choices 
that allow them to enjoy life. Hence, this is how many of our 
seniors end up as greeters at Walmart when they should be 
enjoying the golden years of their lives. The lack of 
knowledge, the lack of money, the lack of money management 
skills make it a need for financial literacy and money 
management in our State and throughout our country.
    For more than 16 years now, Increasing H.O.P.E. has taught 
more than 333 classes, provided financial education to more 
than 9,500 individuals, and we have prepared free tax returns 
for more than 3,650 individuals and families, and finally, 
saved more than 300 homes from foreclosure during the housing 
crisis. As a certified HUD counseling agency, we have helped 
individuals and families improve their scores and become 
homeowners.
    Our current curriculum that is used in the community, 
dfree, is an amazing financial literacy transformation course 
for the young and senior clients. The ``D'' in dfree is not 
just for debt, but we teach our clients how to get set free 
from debt, delinquencies, and deficits so that they can become 
free to begin to make deposits, meaning become savers, make 
dividends, so that they can become investors, and have finally 
have deeds, so that they can become homeowners.
    By teaching individuals how to manage their money so that 
they can manage their lives, we get to change lives, like Ms. 
Brown, who at more than 60 years old, when she sat in front of 
us, confessing and crying, because she had made a budget for 
the very first time in her life, and this was changing her 
life. A component of the training is specifically designed for 
seniors to make financial choices that specifically impact 
them.
    To make an even greater impact, we have moved into an 
Opportunity Center that allows us to serve the community in an 
even greater way, in partnership with three local nonprofits. 
Increasing H.O.P.E., we are able to focus on community economic 
development services with the support of a $2.7 million grant 
from the EDA and an additional grant which will help us with 
the programmatic work of Increasing H.O.P.E. as we continue to 
serve the community.
    The lack of financial literacy, coupled with financial 
well-being and the impact of COVID on families may seem a 
little overwhelming. However, there is still HOPE. Increasing 
H.O.P.E. Financial Training Center will continue to make a 
difference in our community, one class at a time, one 
counseling session at time, one person at a time.
    Thank you for this opportunity to testify before the 
committee. I will be happy to answer any questions you might 
have.
    The Chairman. Ms. Bernique, thank you very much for your 
testimony.
    Our fourth and final witness for her statement is Patti 
Szarowicz. Ms. Szarowicz, you may begin.

       STATEMENT OF PATTI SZAROWICZ, AGING AND DISABILITY

        RESOURCE COUNSELOR, ATLANTA REGIONAL COMMISSION,

             AREA AGENCY ON AGING, ATLANTA, GEORGIA

    Ms. Szarowicz. Chairman Casey, Ranking Member Scott, and 
members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
share my 15 years of experience serving as a certified Aging 
and Disability Resource Connection Counselor at the Atlanta 
Regional Commission. The Atlanta Regional Commission is a 
regional planning and intergovernmental agency that has 
multiple functions, including serving as the Atlanta region's 
Area Agency on Aging. In that role, we serve older residents, 
caregivers, individuals with disabilities, and grandparents 
raising grandchildren, by providing them access to information 
or resources that they need.
    Our ADRC is part of the No Wrong Door System, a 
collaborative effort of the Federal Administration for 
Community Living, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, 
and the Veterans Health Administration. In the Atlanta region, 
we refer to this and other services to consumers as 
``Empowerline.'' Every month, our Empowerline counselors assist 
more than 7,000 callers. Since June 2021, we have seen an 
increase in our calls by about 25 percent. Last State Fiscal 
Year we assisted 57,291 residents. In addition, people can 
access information and search for services on our website, 
empowerline.org, which has experienced a steady increase in 
visits.
    Our 27 full-time equivalent Empowerline counselors respond 
to requests that come in via phone, email, fax, chat, and walk-
ins. We provide information on housing, transportation, in-home 
services, financial assistance, and more. The ARC is the entry 
point for the Georgia Medicare Home and Community-Based 
Program, known as the elderly and disabled waiver program, as 
well as the entry point for services funded through the Older 
Americans Act.
    The amount of time that counselors spend on the phone with 
each person averages 25 minutes, but many cases take much 
longer, sometimes multiple days, depending on the nature of the 
call. Simply, listening to a person's story can be supportive. 
Every call we receive is treated with a person-centered, 
holistic approach to help the person with all of their needs.
    During the 15 years I have worked at the ARC, the calls 
have become increasingly more complex, because of the callers' 
difficulty navigating health care and financial benefits such 
as Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. Many people do not 
have a support system. The person may be widowed, living alone, 
estranged from family, or family lives out of town and can only 
provide limited support. Lacking computer skills or access to 
the internet creates further barriers. Oftentimes I can hear 
the pain and despair in their voices.
    These barriers and lack of support system, we frequently 
are the only person's lifeline for obtaining information that 
can educate and support that person in making critical, life-
changing decisions. People are looking for someone to help 
translate the information they receive in the mail, hear on the 
radio, see on the television, or information on websites, such 
as Medicare and Social Security. As an unbiased, person-
centered and free resource, Empowerline counselors can be 
trusted to provide help without the ulterior motive or for our 
agency's financial gain.
    Financial and health literacy should include knowing where 
to turn for trusted help when the system is too complicated to 
navigate on your own. We aim to get at the root cause of the 
challenges people are facing and help them understand what is 
available to them and how to access it. Without help from 
Empowerline counselors, people can find themselves, for lack of 
knowledge, in one of the following scenarios: enrolled in a 
Medicare plan paying $20 to $40 copays when they are eligible 
for Medicare, Medicare, and have no copays; paying Medicare 
Part B premiums, not aware of eligibility for extra help or 
because they forgot to renew their Medicare.
    Congress can help us better support older residents, adults 
with disabilities, and their care partners by supporting 
additional financial support for ADRC, so we can hire 
additional counselors. ARC receives funding from Georgia's 
Medicaid agency for the Medicaid HCBS waiver access, and 
Georgia's State Unit on Aging. However, our State Unit on Aging 
only designates $37,000 per year for ADRC information 
counseling, not enough funding for even one full-time staff 
person; public awareness of the national network of Area 
Agencies on Aging and the invaluable, unbiased guidance we can 
support for people; and more user-friendly technology for 
documenting client data, better integration across our 
technology systems, which include the telephone, resource data 
base, and client management systems.
    Thank you for this opportunity to testify before the 
Committee and allowing me to share my experience and passion 
for what I do in serving older Americans, adults with 
disabilities, and their care partners. I look forward to 
answering your questions. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Ms. Szarowicz, thanks so much for your 
testimony. I will start a round of questions and actually start 
with you for the first question. In your testimony you talked 
about the extensive work that the Atlanta Regional Commission 
does to assist individuals looking to enroll in Medicare. We 
know that many older adults new to Medicare face a complicated 
enrollment process.
    I mentioned earlier, last year Senator Young and I 
introduced the BENES Act. The bill includes provisions that 
directs the Federal Government to provide advanced notice to 
individuals approaching Medicare age about the basic enrollment 
rules.
    Given your work assisting people with Medicare enrollment, 
how would this legislation help older adults and people with 
disabilities with regard to the enrollment process?
    Ms. Szarowicz. Chairman Casey, thank you for that question. 
I am not an expert on legislation and have not read the bill 
you have proposed. However, I do know that if individuals would 
receive clear guidance from the Federal Government about 
Medicare right before they enroll it would meet a need for 
information at a critical decision-making time.
    I say this because of the experience with speaking with 
highly educated individuals who report being very confused by 
the complexity of the Medicare enrollment process and call the 
ADRC for information and guidance.
    The Chairman. Well thanks very much for that, and I really 
appreciate your testimony.
    I will turn next to Ms. Walsh, and I will not use the 
acronym, just so everyone knows, the full identification of 
what we are talking about when we use an acronym. The Financial 
Industry Regulatory Authority Foundation, the so-called FINRA 
Foundation, supports a number of educational initiatives 
provided through libraries.
    As of 2019, the most recent number we have for Pennsylvania 
is 470 libraries across Pennsylvania serving, in most cases, 
the most rural parts of our State and underserved communities. 
We also know that many of the people who patronage those 
libraries are older adults and people with disabilities.
    Through the most recent infrastructure bill, signed into 
law this past year, there are critical investments in 
broadband, so-called high-speed internet, helping, ``community 
anchor institutions,'' like public libraries, better serve 
their communities.
    Ms. Walsh, can you share more about how libraries can serve 
as vehicles of both financial education as well as financial 
literacy for older adults and people with disabilities?
    Ms. Walsh. I would be delighted to. The FINRA Foundation 
has been collaborating with the American Library Association 
for more than 15 years in helping to build the capacity of 
public libraries and the librarians who work there to be a 
resource for personal finance topics and investing topics, and 
as a result of that there have been thousands of programs 
nationwide that have been focused on particularly people who 
have had limited access to the financial mainstream. It is very 
consumer focused and unbiased. No sales pitches are allowed.
    Libraries know their communities. They serve their 
communities. As with other institutions they have pivoted to 
digital delivery, and they are increasingly a good resource in 
the community. The Foundation has been working with ALA to 
train librarians through a series of online modules. The topics 
that the training covers include many of the issues that were 
identified in the Committee's report--claiming Social Security, 
Medicare issues, all the financial planning types of issues 
that you identified in the report.
    Another way that libraries can be service to the community 
is through helping disaster recovery, and that is something 
that FINRA has been doing recently in Philadelphia, with 
hurricanes this summer. We provide disaster recovery grants to 
libraries to help libraries be a hub for people recovering from 
the financial aftermath of disaster.
    The Chairman. Ms. Walsh, thanks very much.
    I will turn next to Ranking Member Scott, but before doing 
that I just want to give folks notice, because of a scheduling 
change in another committee, the Health, Education, Labor, and 
Pensions Committee, we are going to try to wrap this hearing up 
at 10:50 or 10:55, so that we can get to that next meeting.
    I will turn next to Ranking Member Scott.
    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will start 
with Ms. Bernique.
    Financial literacy is a core component of the American 
dream. It empowers consumers to responsibly participate in the 
mainstream economic ecosystem. According to the National 
Financial Capability Study, approximately two out of three 
Americans are unable to answer three of the five financial 
literacy questions correctly. Older Americans might also assume 
that saving is not as important as it would be if they were a 
little younger.
    Ms. Bernique, what advice do you give to seniors to help 
them boost their financial management skills?
    Ms. Bernique. Thank you, Senator Scott, for the question. 
We run into this quite a bit, especially with our older or 
senior clients and individuals. The first thing that we tell 
them is this: it is never too late. Many times they will think 
having gone through various phases of life that it is too late 
to implement principles.
    We also teach them and let them know that money management 
is a skill set, a soft skill set, with a principle that, once 
implemented, it will work for you, no matter how young or how 
old, and that they should continue to engage in educating 
themselves and implementing the money management principles 
that have the ability and the capacity literally to change 
their life. Many times it can be something as simple as one 
money management tip, such as making sure that you save a 
little bit of your finances from every bit of income that you 
have, which will prepare you for an emergency.
    While it may seem small, something like that can actually 
be life-changing to both the young and our older citizens that 
we serve.
    Senator Tim Scott. Let me continue with you for a second, 
Ms. Bernique. One of the things you said earlier in your 
introduction or your introductory remarks was ``Manage your 
money, manage your life.'' I think that is a such a powerful 
statement. Manage your money, you manage your life, and you 
just talked about the importance of savings. No matter what 
your age, taking a few points or few percent out your every-
week paycheck or every-other-week paychecks and saving that for 
the future is really important, and I really appreciate you 
distilling that fact.
    Another component to financial literacy that seems to be 
more important today than it was maybe ever but certainly 20 or 
30 years ago, is the issue of credit in the area of financial 
literacy. I will say, without any question, that what you look 
like on paper might be more important than anything else, your 
credit score.
    Can you just talk to us for a few minutes, whatever amount 
of time you need, about the importance of managing your credit 
as a part of financial literacy?
    Ms. Bernique. Yes, sir. The importance of managing your 
credit in financial literacy really helps us to be able to have 
choices in life. Senator Scott, as you said, what it looks 
like, and what you look like on paper can be just as important, 
if even not more important, than other things.
    The credit, and the need for credit--we live in a credit-
driven society, and so what we teach individuals is unless we 
are independently wealthy, you need credit. It is very 
important for us, as citizens, as individuals, young and old, 
to give credit to our credit. It has merit, so to take the time 
to pay attention to this particular area of our lives as it 
allows us to have options and choices as you go through life, 
and many times, it will be that number on paper that will make 
the difference between whether or not you, as a senior citizen, 
have to deal with a predatory lender or whether or not you can 
go into a traditional bank or lender to conduct business.
    Credit is very, very, very important. I think individuals 
being mindful of this will help them be able to be prepared for 
some of the choices and limitations that they run into as a 
senior citizen.
    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Ms. Bernique. With my 
remaining time, which is not much, Ms. Walsh, would you talk 
about the importance of lifetime options in your portfolio, 
from a financial perspective? One of the things I will say is, 
having spent about 20-plus years in the financial services 
industry, so many of the annuities did not have the lifetime 
options, so sometimes you could outlive your money.
    Can you talk about the importance of lifetime options, with 
the amount of time that we have left?
    Ms. Walsh. Thank you, Senator. That is an important issue. 
When people transition from accumulating assets to de-
accumulating assets they do have choices with what they can do 
with their money. Some people have a pension. Many Americans 
rely on Social Security. If you have accumulated savings in a 
401(k) or an IRA, you need to think about what to do with that.
    For many people, having guaranteed income can be critical 
to being able to meet expenses. Deciding how much of your 
portfolio to annuitize, especially if you do not have a very 
big portfolio, is a huge decision with important 
considerations, so it is a key topic. I see that we are out of 
time, but thank you.
    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you very much, and Chairman, I may 
come back to the witness in a second round, if we have time. We 
both have to get to the same Health Committee so we may not 
have that time. Thank you, sir.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much for that, and we will 
turn next to Senator Gillibrand.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
    I found your testimony very, very interesting, and can you 
expand a little bit upon some of the things that younger people 
need to maintain and bear in mind to prepare for aging? You 
have talked a little bit about putting money aside in every 
paycheck. What are some other tools that younger people can use 
so that they are better prepared?
    Ms. Bernique. To me?
    Senator Gillibrand. To anyone who wants to answer it.
    Ms. Bernique. I will answer. To help individuals or young 
people prepare, it is important, as we mentioned here in the 
State of South Carolina, that financial literacy start at a 
very young age and that we begin to implement money management 
principles and principles into the lives of individuals so that 
it becomes just a part of their lifestyle, a part of who they 
are, that saving money on a routine or regular basis is not 
something that is a last resort or something you do after you 
see if you have money left over, so it is a matter of 
implementing principles at an early age, training our children 
to realize the importance of money and finances, and then just 
making it a part of their lifestyle.
    Senator Gillibrand. That makes sense. Ms. Hounsell, I want 
to talk a little bit about the role of caregivers. Given their 
longevity and frequent role as caregivers, how can women 
prepare for their future financial health and stability, in 
particular? A lot of the hearing we focused on just-in-time 
decisions for older adults or people with disabilities, but how 
would you make recommendations, from your perspective, for 
young people that impact the quality of life at a later stage, 
and, in particular, for female caregivers?
    Ms. Hounsell. Well I think what needs to happen is that it 
is complicated when you start working, you know, and you need 
to know what to expect, what to look for, what benefits you 
get, whether or not there is a retirement plan offered, so that 
you are jumping in and starting as soon as you can.
    We run a program for college students every year where they 
write a paper and then there is a winner, you know, with what 
they would do to change the retirement system, and over and 
over again they tell us the same thing--they had no idea about 
any of these programs, that they have no idea what, you know, 
anything entails, and yet they see their grandparents 
struggling, many of them, and that is where they get their 
learning experience. Basically, they do not want to end up in 
that situation when they are older.
    Senator Gillibrand. Yes. Research shows that a large 
portion of older adults and people with disabilities have low 
levels of financial literacy, and we have heard a lot about 
that. Some of these just-in-time decisions like deciding 
whether to annuitize a 401(k) have a lasting impact on a 
person's well-being and security.
    With the growing issue of misinformation and disinformation 
on the internet and elsewhere, attaining the knowledge and 
skills to make financial decisions can be daunting. Ms. Walsh, 
in your role as Senior Vice President of Investor Education, 
what do you find are the greatest barriers to education for 
older adults and people living with disabilities about 
financial literacy, and how do you recommend we overcome them?
    Ms. Walsh. Thank you for that question because it is a very 
important issue. The barriers that older adults face when it 
comes, and people with disabilities when it comes to attaining 
financial education are often that it is not offered or made 
available in a place that they have access to. You know, the 
reality is that only about one in five Americans have availed 
of financial education opportunities and very few have been 
offered them.
    Making financial education more available to individuals is 
one of the important considerations if we want to expand 
financial literacy, and expanding financial literacy is 
important because it is connected with better financial 
behaviors in life. People are more likely to save, less likely 
to be engaging in predatory borrowing behaviors, more likely to 
have a will and to be thinking about their retirement and their 
eState plan if they have higher levels of financial literacy.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you 
to the witnesses.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Gillibrand.
    As I mentioned earlier, we have a number of Senators who 
are juggling multiple hearings and other conflicts in their 
schedules. Senator Warnock has joined us, as I know we had some 
Senators join us earlier who may have had to leave. We 
appreciate Senator Warnock being with us.
    We will go next, just as a previous, after Senator Braun 
will be Senator Warren. Senator Braun?
    Senator Braun. Thank you, Chairman Casey, Ranking Member 
Scott.
    Interesting topic. I do not know how anything could be more 
relevant currently than increasing your financial literacy. You 
know, when I look at the Federal Government, it would be nice 
to see a place dispensing that valuable information, maybe 
practicing a little bit in terms of what it tries to preach at 
the individual level. I do not know that we have been at a more 
precarious spot, that I have observed, since I got an economics 
degree and was a CFO and CEO for a company I ran for 37 years, 
and see a place that does not budget anymore. We pretty well do 
a resolution. We do nothing on time. We are still trying to 
sort out spending that should have been done almost four or 5 
months ago.
    I think that creates a credibility issue. It does not 
diminish the importance of the topic, but I think it really 
begs a question, where should this be focused in terms of where 
would it actually be coming from a place that might have the 
kind of consistency of practicing the principles that I think 
we are trying to dispense when it comes to financial literacy.
    You cannot borrow money for consumption, and we do that in 
the Federal Government, and do it at a higher percentage every 
year. You cannot live beyond your means and expect to be able 
to finance that. I really think that the whole issue, as 
important as it is, probably needs to be articulated in places 
where you could attach this discussion as far back as middle 
school, especially in high school.
    What I hear more than anything, in traveling through all 
the counties in Indiana, is give me a potential employee that 
has got some life skills. Financial literacy would be one of 
them, and maybe that is more aptly the domain of our local 
school boards, our local education, and maybe that is the place 
to start.
    That being said, I have got a question for Ms. Walsh. Do 
you think that with all the money we do spend on this subject 
already, kind of the poor results that we are generating 
generally, the example that we set here in our own Federal 
Government, is it worth the time and additional resources to be 
trying to push more through the Federal Government, or is this 
more properly the domain of local educators and curriculum in 
middle school and high school?
    Ms. Walsh. I appreciate the question, Senator, because 
tackling the issue of financial literacy and building financial 
wellness in our country will take multiple players on multiple 
levels. What we have seen is that financial education does 
work. It does have an impact, especially over time. The higher 
the quality and the higher the quantity of financial education 
the more likely individuals are to be engaging in more positive 
financial behaviors.
    It is critical that there are multiple players in the 
field. The nonprofits that we have heard from through our 
colleagues who have provided testimony, State and Federal 
agencies, all have a role to play. When it comes to schools, we 
do see that when there are rigorous requirements concerning 
financial education in the classroom that over time, later in 
life, the people who have been exposed to those financial 
education programs are less likely to be engaging in costly 
credit card behavior, costly student loan borrowing, and 
predatory lending.
    Senator Braun. Would you be able to cite one or two 
examples of Federal programs that dispense that information, 
have that impact that you are referring to?
    Ms. Walsh. Senator, while I do not have access to the 
efficacy of programs that are distributed by Federal agencies 
we do work in partnership with a number of Federal agencies, 
from the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal 
Reserve Board to the Treasury and CFPB, and we do all work 
together to measure the success of financial education and how 
we can promote financial wellness, which is why one of the 
recommendations that I would make is there be support for 
efforts to really suss out what works when it comes to 
financial education for different populations.
    It is not a monolithic. There is no one-size-fits-all 
solution to furthering financial wellness. It really needs to 
take into account the different needs of different audiences.
    Senator Braun. Well I think that broad-based approach does 
make sense. I can tell you that in places like Indiana it is 
being given increased attention to life skills. Many lawyers 
are looking for individuals out of high school and have those 
skills minimally, and most schools across Indiana are starting 
to get back into making sure that kids come through middle 
school and high school with these basic life skill sets, 
including financial literacy.
    Thanks for having the hearing.
    The Chairman. Senator Braun, thanks very much for your 
questions.
    We will turn next to Senator Warren, but I just want to let 
Senator Kelly know he will be after Senator Warren, and Senator 
Blumenthal.
    Senator Warren?
    Senator Warren. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank 
you for holding this hearing.
    Financial literacy is critical for Americans who are trying 
to make key decisions like planning for retirement, but low-
incomes families navigating a thin social safety net that gives 
them too little help, all the education and counseling in the 
world cannot magically make two plus two add up to ten.
    I want to start--take a look at Supplemental Social 
Security income, a part of Social Security. SSI provides a 
critical lifeline for eight million low-income, elderly, and 
disabled Americans, including over one million disabled 
children and families that care for them. Right now, our rules 
are outdated, they are punitive, and they squeeze way too many 
struggling families out of this program and tap about four out 
of 10 recipients in poverty.
    Ms. Hounsell, you are the President of the Women's 
Institute for a Secure Retirement. You help women plan for 
retirement and financial security. I just want to ask you about 
how you would counsel a woman who is receiving SSI. The maximum 
monthly SSI benefit--maximum--is $841 in 2022. The average 
benefit is below $600.
    Ms. Hounsell, is $600 a month adequate to live in financial 
security and save for retirement?
    Ms. Hounsell. Thanks, Senator, for covering that issue. No, 
it is not in any way adequate. Obviously, it is only half of 
the poverty level for elders.
    Senator Warren. Okay. This is not going to work. This woman 
might have to consider working, if she is able, in order to be 
able to make ends meet. Now remember, as an SSI recipient she 
is elderly or disabled or caring for a disabled child, so she 
may not be able to work. Let's say she is considering it. She 
is considering working.
    Ms. Hounsell, given restrictive SSI rules, would you advise 
her to go to work?
    Ms. Hounsell. Well, I mean, every situation is different, 
obviously, but I think I would make the person aware of the 
amount that she would be allowed to earn, which is a very small 
amount, and maybe just start looking, you know, for other 
benefits and things that are available to her, that she may not 
be aware of. Obviously, you cannot earn--I think what it is--is 
less than $75 a month, would be for the average person on SSI.
    Senator Warren. Okay, so here she is, based on the average 
benefit she is at half the poverty level, right? She is below 
the poverty line. The most she can earn before she starts 
losing her benefits is, you are telling me, $75 a month, right?
    Ms. Hounsell. Right.
    Senator Warren. Okay. Let's say she is a senior. How about 
claiming Social Security? Will that get her out of this 
problem?
    Ms. Hounsell. No. No, because she is not allowed to earn, 
you know, I think it is something like $20 or something would 
stop her there, so, you know, it is unlikely that she would be 
able to have a job and to do that.
    Senator Warren. She is at half of the poverty level, that 
we have established in this country, and if she goes over $20 
in terms of collecting her Social Security it will just reduce 
her benefits, dollar for dollar, so here she is. She is below 
the poverty level because of her circumstances. She receives an 
SSI check, but she is going to be punished for working, 
punished for claiming Social Security, and punished if she 
saves any money. I want to add that she will be punished if she 
saves too much, because SSI beneficiaries are allowed a maximum 
of only $2,000 in savings, and that includes their retirement 
accounts.
    By the way, she will also be punished for marrying, because 
SSI benefits and asset limits kick in for married recipients. 
She will even be punished for receiving groceries from a friend 
or housing from her family. In other words, every avenue she 
would try to take to lift herself out of poverty is an avenue 
that she will be penalized for under our current law.
    Now, Ms. Hounsell, I know that you and I agree that 
financial literacy is important, but in addition, would 
reforming the help that SSI recipients get help overcome these 
barriers to escaping poverty and planning for retirement? In 
other words, if we just changed law and tried to give more 
people opportunities to get out of poverty when they are 
getting SSI, would that be helpful?
    Ms. Hounsell. Yes. I mean, I do not think there have been 
reforms from the time that the bill was introduced in the early 
1970's by President Nixon, so I think it is time to make those 
reforms and change that. Our office would also check with the 
person who is contacting us and whether ABLE accounts are, you 
know, an option, where the rules are different for the ABLE 
account.
    Senator Warren. Yes. Well thank you. I appreciate it, Ms. 
Hounsell. You know, after decades of ignoring this problem it 
is time for Congress to make reforms to SSI. Right now I am 
working with Senators Brown and Sanders to pass the SSI 
Restoration Act, which would include raising the SSI benefit 
rate, and it would also revise a lot of these outdated rules 
that effectively serve as barriers to saving, barriers to 
financial independence, barriers to getting married.
    Including even just $8 billion in the Build Back Better Act 
to raise SSI asset limits, or $11 billion to raise the earned 
income disregard would be a significant down payment on 
economic justice for SSI recipients and one more reason to pass 
Build Back Better. SSI's original goal was to ensure that no 
elderly or disabled American would be forced to subsist on 
below poverty level incomes, and yet that is exactly what this 
law has turned into. We can and we must change the law so it 
fulfills its original goals.
    Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for this 
hearing and thank you very much to our witnesses.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Warren. Senator Kelly.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for holding 
this hearing today.
    Ms. Hounsell, I wanted to speak to you about housing costs, 
specifically in Arizona. You know, I have heard from seniors 
throughout the State who are rightfully concerned about the 
lack of affordable housing for folks who are on fixed incomes.
    Several months ago, my office learned about a senior who 
was facing eviction, who was about to get kicked out of their 
home. Now thankfully our team was able to connect with this 
person and help them access immediate support as well as some 
long-term rental assistance that was made available through 
COVID relief packages, so we were able to successfully deal 
with this problem.
    Ms. Hounsell, first I want to take this opportunity to 
remind Arizonans that my office is here to help, so if anybody 
is watching this and you need help with a Federal agency please 
know that my office is here for you, and I encourage you to 
reach out.
    Ms. Hounsell, it is clear Arizonans, particularly seniors 
on fixed incomes in Arizona, are feeling a lot of pressure in 
this housing market with increased costs. I know that this is 
not unique to my State. When your organization educates folks 
considering or planning for retirement, how do you address 
preparing for unexpected costs? What is your advice to them?
    Ms. Hounsell. Well, I mean, what we have been doing for a 
long time, it is not easy, is advising people to have emergency 
funds so that, first of all, they protect themselves when 
something unexpected comes along.
    The one thing that I have seen in the 25 years that I have 
been working on this, and housing is not one of my special 
areas of expertise--there may be somebody else who can answer 
that question better than I can--is that the salvation for most 
low-income women has always been that affordable housing, the 
senior housing. Since that is not as available and there are so 
many more people with needs I do not know what will happen to a 
whole population of people that will get lost. I mean, we have 
women contacting us that have been living in their cars for the 
last couple of years. I mean, that happens over and over again, 
that people are making those car payments so that they know 
that they have someplace to go.
    Senator Kelly. I visited with seniors at a senior center in 
northern Arizona maybe about 6 months ago, and I was at a table 
with about four gentlemen, and they live in a senior affordable 
housing that was about to reach the limit, the time limit, 
where it had to remain affordable housing for the owners of the 
development to receive the tax credits. They were going to have 
to transition out of that facility because they could no longer 
afford the rent increase.
    One gentleman told me that he had called around to 60--or 
every affordable housing location within like 60 miles of where 
they were and he could not find an affordable housing unit.
    What do you think the Federal Government should be doing 
here to solve this housing crisis for seniors receiving 
affordable housing? I know you said it is not your expertise.
    Ms. Hounsell. Well, I am just not sure--I know there are a 
lot of provisions in these bills and people talk about this all 
the time. I am just not familiar with the legislation that is 
being offered. Maybe somebody else is more familiar. I just 
know that it is not available, especially in the cities. I 
mean, that is why the homeless population is, you know, 
constantly growing everywhere, including in Washington, D.C., 
where, you know, a number of us at this hearing also live. It 
just, you know, multiplies.
    Senator Kelly. Ms. Bernique, how about you?
    Ms. Bernique. Affordable housing is expansive across our 
country. Part of the problem comes from just the lack of stock, 
as there is not the availability, and the other part comes from 
the high cost of living in areas which make affordable housing 
or the ability to afford a place to live unaffordable for most 
individuals, due to the fact that their cost of living for just 
housing alone ends up exceeding 50 to 60 percent of their 
income.
    Part of the way that we can solve affordable housing as a 
HUD housing counseling agency is just the affordability or the 
number of stock. Just having homes available whereby 
individuals at lower income levels can actually afford, meaning 
affordability is afforded to them based on what their income 
is.
    Senator Kelly. Well thank you to you both, and Mr. 
Chairman, again thank you for having this hearing. I had some 
further questions. We can submit them for the record. Thanks 
again for having this hearing.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Kelly. We will turn next 
to Senator Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Yes, thanks to you and Senator Scott 
for this hearing. Very important, very timely, and very much on 
the minds of many of the seniors in Connecticut.
    I was fortunate to introduce, with my colleague from 
Connecticut, Senator Larson, just a few months ago, the Social 
Security 2100 Act--Senator Van Hollen joined me in it--which 
not only will enhance the Social Security Trust Fund's long-
term insolvency but meet many of the issues that have been 
raised, including very eloquently by Senator Warren. I think we 
need to support some of Social Security's most vulnerable 
beneficiaries including widows and widowers, caregivers, and 
our oldest seniors.
    Ms. Hounsell, in your testimony you speak to the imbalance 
between men and women caregivers in their retirement years. You 
have shared that women more often leave the labor force or work 
part-time to accommodate family needs, whether that be for 
children or elderly parents. Another study shows that single 
women who care for elderly parents are 2.5 times more likely 
than other caregivers to live in poverty in retirement, often 
because they leave the workforce to care for others.
    At the same time, studies have found that women often 
outlive their male counterparts, leaving them not only as 
caregivers for their spouses but also as widows in their later 
years. It is cited that at age 85 about 86 percent of women are 
single.
    Our Social Security 2100 Act provides caregiver credits to 
ensure that caregivers are not penalized in retirement for 
taking time out of the workforce to care for children or other 
dependents, and the legislation includes improvements in 
benefits for widows and widowers in two-income households. This 
bill also ensures that widows and widowers receive 75 percent 
of the combined Social Security benefits the couple was 
receiving prior to one spouse's death.
    I realize that is a lot in a very short time for you to 
digest, but I wonder if you could comment on your view on these 
provisions and how crucial it is for Congress to address the 
disparities of our most caring workforce that includes 48 
million family caregivers.
    Ms. Hounsell. I think it is immensely important. I mean, we 
recently launched a Financial Caregiver Hub, just to alert 
caregivers, basically, to what the financial costs are that 
they are likely to incur and how important having a plan for 
all of this is really matters.
    I think what that legislation does is it hits on the most 
vulnerable groups--those who are divorced, those who are 
widowed--and it is always unexpected and there is always a 
great loss of income when people go through those life-changing 
situations, and so do the eldercare. It is like who will pay?
    One of the things we have tried to do too is to help 
families look at these financial caregiver agreements so that 
if one person happens to live close to the parents does not 
give up everything and yet become unpaid because she is just 
going to be poor down the road, like the statistics that you 
mentioned.
    I think it is really key that those claiming rules that you 
have all considered in that legislation really would make a 
difference for so many vulnerable women.
    Senator Blumenthal. I am about to run out of time but I 
just want to make the additional point that Ms. Szarowicz 
speaks, in her testimony, to the importance of knowing waiting 
periods regarding disability determination and eligible, as 
well as information on when and how to claim Social Security 
benefits. My Social Security 2100 Act ends the 5-month waiting 
period to receive disability benefits, and I think will provide 
much-needed assistance to people who are in need.
    I want to just finish by thanking Senator Casey for his 
leadership on this entire area of caregiving to our seniors and 
elderly. He has really been a champion and thanks again for the 
hearing and thanks for this opportunity to participate.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal.
    Now that we have come to the end of the hearing I wanted 
to, in the interest of time because of the demands of our next 
engagement, both Senator Scott and I with the Health Committee, 
I will submit my closing statement for the record, but just 
note for the record two things. Number one, is we want to thank 
our witnesses--Ms. Walsh, Ms. Hounsell, Ms. Bernique, and Ms. 
Szarowicz--for their testimony. We could spend hours just on 
part of this topic, and we are grateful for the insights and 
the experience that you bring to bear on this. The second point 
I will make is that the deadline for questions for the record 
will be January 20th.
    I will next turn to Ranking Member Scott.
    Senator Tim Scott. I will suggest that I too thank you all 
for being here and look forward to continuing this discussion 
in the future. I will submit my closing statement for the 
record as well.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott. Thanks again 
to all of our witnesses. We are adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 10:51 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

                 CLOSING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                 ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., CHAIRMAN

    Today's hearing highlights the importance of getting 
Americans support "just in time"- right when people are making 
important financial decisions.
    Providing this assistance can make a critical difference in 
people's lives.
    We learned that many older adults seek help from someone 
they trust to make decisions about Social Security, retirement 
income, their homes and Medicare.
    These trusted sources can include their employers, a wide 
range of professionals and even their family and friends, and 
for the hardest to reach individuals, organizations in the 
community and government agencies are often their main source 
of trusted advice and support.
    Our continued support of these organizations is essential.
    We must properly fund the Social Security Administration 
and programs like State Health Insurance Assistance Programs 
and Aging and Disability Resource Centers.
    Finally, we must strengthen critical benefits like Social 
Security and Supplemental Security Income (SSI), which are key 
to helping seniors and people with disabilities to build 
financial security and save for their futures.
    Simplifying processes and rules, especially for benefits 
like Social Security and SSI, will reduce confusion and provide 
people with clear and meaningful choices, allowing them to make 
sound decisions and improve their financial situation.
    I want to once again thank all the witnesses for 
contributing their time and expertise today.
    If any Senators have additional questions for the witnesses 
or statements to be added, the hearing record will be kept open 
for 7 days, until next Thursday, January 20.
    Thank you all for participating today and this concludes 
today's hearing. 
      
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                                APPENDIX
    
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                      Prepared Witness Statements

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                 Questions and Responses for the Record

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                  Additional Statements for the Record

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