    [Senate Hearing 117-145]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 117-145

                              FINANCIAL LITERACY:
                       ADDRESSING THE UNIQUE JUST-IN-TIME
                         DECISIONS OLDER AMERICANS AND
                         PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES FACE

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                           SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                                 WASHINGTON, DC

                                   __________

                                JANUARY 13, 2022

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 117-11

             Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                   __________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    46-688 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                           SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                  ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania, Chairman

    KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
    RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine
    ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      RICHARD BURR, North Carolina
    JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  MARCO RUBIO, Florida
    MARK KELLY, Arizona                  MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
    RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             RICK SCOTT, Florida
                                         MIKE LEE, Utah
                                  ----------
                     Stacy Sanders, Majority Staff Director
                     Neri Martinez, Minority Staff Director

                             C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                                  ----------

                                                                       Page

    Opening Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman......     1
    Opening Statement of Senator Tim Scott, Ranking Member...........     3

                               PANEL OF WITNESSES

    Gerry Walsh, Senior Vice President of Investor Education,
      Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, Washington, D.C.......     5
    Cindy Hounsell, President and Founder, Women's Institute for a
      Secure Retirement, Washington, D.C.............................     6
    Dorothea Bernique, Founder and Executive Director, Increasing
      H.O.P.E., North Charleston, South Carolina.....................     8
    Patti Szarowicz, Aging and Disability Resource Counselor, Atlanta
      Regional Commission, Area Agency on Aging, Atlanta, Georgia....    10

                               CLOSING STATEMENT

    Closing Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman......    22

                                    APPENDIX
                          Prepared Witness Statements

    Gerry Walsh, Senior Vice President of Investor Education,
      Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, Washington, D.C.......    29
    Cindy Hounsell, President and Founder, Women's Institute for a
      Secure Retirement, Washington, D.C.............................    49
    Dorothea Bernique, Founder and Executive Director, Increasing
      H.O.P.E., North Charleston, South Carolina.....................    58
    Patti Szarowicz, Aging and Disability Resource Counselor, Atlanta
      Regional Commission, Area Agency on Aging, Atlanta, Georgia....    60

                            Questions for the Record

    Gerry Walsh, Senior Vice President of Investor Education,
      Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, Washington, D.C.......    65
    Cindy Hounsell, President and Founder, Women's Institute for a
      Secure Retirement, Washington, D.C.............................    72
    Dorothea Bernique, Founder and Executive Director, Increasing
      H.O.P.E., North Charleston, South Carolina.....................    75
    Patti Szarowicz, Aging and Disability Resource Counselor, Atlanta
      Regional Commission, Area Agency on Aging, Atlanta, Georgia....    76

                      Additional Statements for the Record

    Credit Union National Association................................    83
    Alzheimer's Impact Movement......................................    84

                              FINANCIAL LITERACY:
                       ADDRESSING THE UNIQUE JUST-IN-TIME
                         DECISIONS OLDER AMERICANS AND
                         PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES FACE

                                  ----------

                           THURSDAY, JANUARY 13, 2022

                                           U.S. Senate,
                                    Special Committee on Aging,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m., via
    Webex, Hon. Robert P. Casey, Chairman of the Committee,
    presiding.
        Present: Senators Casey, Gillibrand, Blumenthal, Warren,
    Rosen, Kelly, Warnock, Tim Scott, Braun, and Rick Scott.

                     OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR
                     ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., CHAIRMAN

        The Chairman. The Senate Special Committee on Aging will
    come to order.
        Before we turn to today's topic, I want to commend the
    Committee members and the work of this Committee during the
    first session of the 117th Congress. This is the tenth hearing
    that I have held as Chair, along with Ranking Member Scott, and
    our first hearing of 2022. Ranking Member Scott, I want to
    thank you for your continued partnership and the work we have
    done together.
        Today's hearing will examine the decisions that millions of
    older Americans make every year, involving their income, their
    savings, insurance, homes, and so many issues. These choices
    that they make can have lasting consequences for their lives.
        Today the Committee is also releasing a bipartisan report
    on the help Americans need to make these critical decisions. I
    am holding up the report if you cannot see it. It is entitled
    ``Financial Literacy in Retirement.'' The subheading is
    ``Providing Just-in-Time Information and Assistance to Older
    Americans and People with Disabilities.'' That will be
    available on a lot of platforms and through Senate offices and
    back in our states. Whoever wants copies of that, we can
    provide those. It is critically important that we compile
    reports like this and I want to thank the staff for the good
    work that they have done to make that possible.
        We are also going to disseminate a brochure. The brochure
    is entitled ``Retirement Decisions,'' all kinds of information
    about the difficult decisions that people have to make before
    and even during their retirement.
        We know that, for example, this year nearly 11,000
    Americans will turn age 65 every single day--11,000 a day. In
    my home State of Pennsylvania that number is about 460
    Pennsylvanians who will turn 65 each day.
        As just one example, many of the Americans reaching this
    milestone can benefit from real-time information on how to sign
    up for Medicare, for example. One such person is in my home
    State of Pennsylvania, from Beaver County, Rochester,
    Pennsylvania, is Charlotte Zgoda. Charlotte contacted our
    office way back in 2019. Charlotte's husband always took care
    of their finances, but when he passed away she was not able to
    keep his health plan. When she tried to sign up for Medicare
    she learned she would have to pay a Part B late enrollment fee,
    and that fee was for life. Had she and her husband received the
    support they needed when they approached age 65, Charlotte
    believes they would have been able to make a more informed
    decision.
        Many families face these kinds of challenges. When nearing
    retirement, Americans face so many important and complex
    financial decisions. These decisions can be daunting for
    anyone, no matter who you are.
        People, of course, want timely information and help from a
    trusted source of information. They seek assistance in making
    the right financial decision for themselves and for their
    families, but they often do not know where to turn. Last year,
    my constituent services team received over 1,000 calls and
    emails from Pennsylvanians on these issues. Thankfully, both
    Congress and the White House have committed to helping
    Americans demystify these financial decisions.
        In December, President Biden released an Executive order
    intended to enhance the consumer experience and align services
    to support people at critical moments, like turning 65. In the
    last Congress, some provisions of a bill that I worked on with
    Senator Young, the so-called BENES Act--here is a long name for
    it, the Medicare Beneficiary Enrollment Notification and
    Eligibility Simplification Act. We need acronyms when we have
    that, B-E-N-E-S, BENES--portions of that legislation was signed
    into law. These provisions make sure that fewer people
    experience a gap in health coverage after enrolling in
    Medicare. It is also why I am committed to working with Senator
    Young and others to reintroduce additional provisions from this
    bill.
        These policies ensure Americans receive timely notice about
    when and how to sign up for Medicare and fair warning about the
    penalties that can result from delay. Across kitchen tables all
    across the country, retirees and seniors are asking some basic
    questions. ``Should I take my Social Security, or should I
    wait?'' Second, they might be asking, ``Do I need to sign up
    for Medicare, or can I wait?'' Third, they might be asking,
    ``Is it time to sell my home?'' These are not simple decisions
    for anyone. Our witness panel will shed lots of light on the
    information Americans need, ``just in time'' to succeed.
        With that, I want to turn to Ranking Member Scott for his
    opening remarks.
        [pause] Sorry about that. I guess that Senator Scott might
    be having technical issues.
        I wanted to, in the interim, acknowledge members of the
    Aging Committee who are with us today, and obviously, some
    people will be available now and some people may have to leave
    to go to another hearing or another engagement and then will
    come back. Senator Rick Scott and Senator Jacky Rosen.
        In the interim, while we fix some of our technical issues,
    I wanted to start to go through our witness introductions. I
    will start, and then we can take a pause for Senator Scott,
    whenever that is appropriate.
        Let me start with our first witness. Our first witness is
    Gerri Walsh from the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority.
    Ms. Walsh serves as the Senior Vice President of Investor
    Education. She is responsible for developing a wide range of
    research and educational initiatives to address systemic wealth
    disparities for underserved communities. We want to thank Ms.
    Walsh for being with us.
        Our second witness is Cindy Hounsell. Cindy is the
    President and Founder of the Women's Institute for a Secure
    Retirement, goes by the acronym WISER. Cindy has dedicated her
    professional life to setting women up for success in
    retirement. The organization, WISER, works to provide financial
    literacy and support to women across the Nation.
        I will turn to a third witness and then we will get to our
    fourth witness. Patty Szarowicz hails from Atlanta, Georgia.
    Ms. Szarowicz has 15 years of experience with the Aging and
    Information Services Unit at the Atlanta Regional Commission.
    She helps senior receive benefits and locate services. Ms.
    Szarowicz, I wanted her to know that Senator Warnock, who is a
    member of our Committee, will be joining us later for
    questions, and he and all of us want to hear about your great
    work in your home State of Georgia.
        At this point I will take a brief pause to see if we have
    fixed some of the technical issues.
        Senator Tim Scott. Mr. Chairman, can you hear me?
        The Chairman. Yes.
        Senator Tim Scott. Okay. Sorry you cannot see me. Maybe
    that is better for everybody that you cannot see me today. I am
    happy to be with you all, even by phone. I apologize for the
    technical difficulties that we are experiencing trying to
    connect.
        I can hear everyone fine by the way, and I can see you
    fine. I just cannot get my system to work.

                     OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR
                       TIM SCOTT, RANKING MEMBER

        Senator Tim Scott. Let me thank Chairman Casey for holding
    this really important hearing on financial literacy. Financial
    literacy is critical to learn as early in life as possible.
        Like the Chairman mentioned, as a testament to the
    importance of financial literacy for older Americans, the
    Committee is working on our annual bipartisan report, and this
    year it is on financial literacy. As a kid who was raised in a
    single-parent household mired in poverty, but blessed with a
    loving mother, I understand and appreciate the importance of
    learning financial principles as early in life as possible. It
    is one of the reasons why I co-chair the Financial Literacy
    Caucus along with Senator Jack Reed. Since 2015, we have
    declared April as Financial Literacy Month through a resolution
    in a bipartisan fashion.
        South Carolina is one of the 21 states that requires high
    school students to take a course on financial literacy. There
    is a non-profit in our State called SC Economics, whose mission
    is to provide training and resources to educators. They have
    trained nearly 2,500 teachers and reached more than 235,000
    students in South Carolina with their financial literacy
    curriculum. It is never too late to learn the importance of
    financial literacy.
        Part of my focus is making sure that every American, and
    particularly our senior Americans, have an opportunity to
    understand and appreciate and to benefit from financial
    literacy. One of the reasons why this is so important for our
    seniors we can see demonstrated through an experience at
    Citizens Bank in a small rural town in South Carolina called
    Johnsonville, in Florence County. It has trained its employees
    to look for suspicious activity and provide seniors the support
    they need.
        The example that I am talking about was when a 60-year-old
    disabled senior came into the bank and asked for an $8,000
    cashier's check. The trained employee understood that this was
    unusual for this senior and proceeded to ask a few important
    questions. Ultimately, the bank employee discovered that the
    senior was involved in a romance scam, and was able to stop the
    senior from sending $8,000 to someone and never seeing the
    money again. Educating our seniors on when it is safe and when
    it is not safe to transfer money is a critical component of
    financial literacy.
        I am also pleased to have dedicated and committed South
    Carolinians like Dorothea Bernique of Increasing H.O.P.E., who
    has helped countless seniors through financial literacy
    programs and helped them to maintain and to achieve their
    version of the American dream.
        To have financial literacy we must have financial
    inclusion. That is why it is so important to continue to work
    in many ways to advance the cause of equal access to
    opportunity throughout our country.
        Building on financial inclusion, I have also introduced,
    along with Senator Joe Manchin, the Credit Access and Inclusion
    Act of 2021, to expand access to credit for an estimated 45
    million Americans with no credit history. When you pay your
    bills on time, it should help improve your credit. It is kind
    of that simple.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
        The Chairman. Ranking Member Scott, thank you very much for
    your opening statement.
        The one thing that did not do in the interim is introduce
    Ms. Bernique. Ranking Member Scott, can you?
        Senator Tim Scott. Happy to do so. Thank you. Yes, sir, Mr.
    Chairman. I am pleased to introduce an individual who is
    working tirelessly to improve financial literacy across the
    Palmetto State, and that person, as I just mentioned, Dorothea
    Bernique. Dorothea is the Founder and Executive Director of
    Increasing H.O.P.E., which stands for Helping Others Prosper
    Economically. She is located in Charleston, South Carolina.
        For the past 16 years, Increasing H.O.P.E. has helped South
    Carolinians realize their American dream, by improving their
    financial literacy. Ms. Bernique's testimony today is based on
    her extensive work and experience on the ground working with
    individuals, families, and specifically, older Americans to
    become more educated in personal finance.
        I want to thank Dorothea for being here today and for doing
    such good work on behalf of our State and every single person
    who lives there, and we look forward to your testimony.
        The Chairman. Ranking Member Scott, thank you very much for
    that introduction. Now we will turn to our witnesses'
    statements. We will start with Ms. Gerri Walsh.
        Ms. Walsh, you may begin your statement.

                 STATEMENT OF GERRI WALSH, SENIOR VICE

               PRESIDENT OF INVESTOR EDUCATION, FINANCIAL

            INDUSTRY REGULATORY AUTHORITY, WASHINGTON, D.C.

        Ms. Walsh. Chairman Casey, Ranking Member Scott, and
    members of the Committee, on behalf of FINRA and the FINRA
    Investor Education Foundation, thank you for the opportunity to
    appear today.
        FINRA is not-for-profit, self-regulatory organization that
    works with the Securities and Exchange Commission to regulate
    broker-dealers, over 600,000 individuals and 3,400 firms.
    FINRA's mission is to protect investors and promote market
    integrity. As part of that mission, we focus, alongside the
    FINRA Foundation, on research and education to help Americans
    achieve financial security.
        FINRA makes investor protection for senior investors and
    vulnerable adults a top priority. We have rules focused on
    these populations and we work with stakeholders to enhance the
    investor protection safety net. For example, last year FINRA,
    Securities and Exchange Commission staff, and State regulators
    developed specialized industry training on the Senior Safe Act,
    legislation this Committee knows well. While not all harm
    results from sales practice abuse, FINRA take swift action
    against broker-dealer misconduct.
        At the same time, we believe investor knowledge is key to
    prevent harm, especially for older adults. Americans entering
    retirement face consequential decisions about health care and
    how to turn years of hard-earned savings into income lasting
    for the rest of their lives. Pivoting from asset accumulation
    to spending down assets, retirees often must make once-in-a-
    lifetime choices they typically cannot undo. One wrong decision
    can upend decades of careful financial planning.
        That is why FINRA provides free, unbiased resources to help
    Americans better understand the risks and rewards of investing,
    how markets work, and how avoid scams and other financial
    pitfalls. It is also why the FINRA Foundation spends
    significant resources on research that we share widely. The
    Foundation's National Financial Capability Study has revealed
    that financial knowledge among U.S. adults is low and has
    decreased over time. In 2009, 42 percent had high financial
    literacy, by 2018, only 34 percent, and an early look at the
    2021 data collection suggests levels have fallen slightly
    further. We see the largest decline among Americans ages 18 to
    34. Separately, we see demographic differences for women and
    most people of color.
        For adults with disabilities, the stakes are even greater.
    This is, in part, because the cost of living for Americans with
    disabilities is 29 percent higher than for those without
    disabilities, according to a study funded by the Foundation.
    Other Foundation-funded studies have shown that knowledge about
    financial and health matters generally declines with age, with
    a faster rate of decline tied to such things as poorer
    decision-making, a higher susceptibility to scams, and lower
    psychological well-being. Overestimating one's cognitive skills
    has also been tied to poor decision-making, as has loneliness
    when paired with low cognition.
        Beyond research, the Foundation assists Americans on
    numerous investing and personal finance topics, from investing
    basics to managing retirement income and even dealing with the
    aftermath of natural disasters. We have worked with dozens of
    partners, empowering them to reach people where they live,
    learn, and earn, through key channels such as public libraries
    and workplaces, and we team up with fellow regulators and
    national nonprofits to train intermediaries to combat financial
    fraud. You can learn more at finra.org/investors.
        In conclusion, we share your belief that bolstering and
    maintaining financial literacy in older and vulnerable
    populations could yield numerous benefits, including better
    decision-making, reducing scams susceptibility, and greater
    psychological well-being. Where it can, I encourage Congress to
    support research that further explores the nexus between
    financial capability and aging and examining what works in
    financial education. I also believe enhanced support for State
    adult protective service programs, especially those that handle
    financial exploitation cases, will help better protect older
    and vulnerable Americans.
        FINRA and the FINRA Foundation are fully committed to
    helping Americans build a secure financial future. Thank you
    again for inviting me to testify. I am pleased to answer any
    questions you may have.
        The Chairman. Ms. Walsh, thanks very much for your
    testimony, and you had a couple of seconds to spare, so thank
    you.
        Our next witness is Cindy Hounsell. You may begin.
        [Pause.] Cindy, I think you are muted.

               STATEMENT OF CINDY HOUNSELL, PRESIDENT AND

                FOUNDER, WOMEN'S INSTITUTE FOR A SECURE

                      RETIREMENT, WASHINGTON, D.C.

        Ms. Hounsell. Okay. Here we go.
        Good morning. Thanks to the Committee for inviting us to
    participate. I am Cindy Hounsell, President of the nonprofit
    WISER, a 25-year-old nonprofit that works to help women,
    educators, and policymakers address the complicated issues that
    affect women's retirement planning.
        Our 5-minute statement, which I hope will not be 6 minutes,
    will focus on the issues WISER was asked to address, namely
    retirement challenges that women face, the need for targeted
    financial information, the need for more retirement income, and
    how WISER addresses these challenges to reach underserved and
    under-resourced communities by providing financial literacy
    programs.
        WISER partners with diverse nonprofit groups, companies,
    plan sponsors, credit unions, financial institutions, and
    financial planners to ensure there is community buy-in and
    follow-up. We regularly collaborate with government agencies--
    the Social Security Administration, Consumer Financial
    Protection Bureau, and the Securities and Exchange Commission.
        The audience: midlife and older women, underserved, low-
    income women, Black women, Latinas, Native Americans, as well
    as women in rural areas, women with disabilities, caregivers,
    and limited English speakers, who are all prominent in our
    work. We find these women are eager to learn financial basics
    and take action with how-to information.
        Why women? That is one of the first questions we get. Well,
    because women live longer and they need more retirement income,
    and they generally have less, plus at age 65, there nearly six
    million more women than men, and by age 85, women make up
    nearly 70 percent of that population. Many of the 85-plus group
    end up near or in poverty, even if they have never been poor
    before. This is especially common for women living alone and
    for minority women.
        Why financial literacy? Research confirms women generally
    have lower levels of financial literacy than men and that
    literacy is directly linked to overall financial well-being.
    The bigger problem is the not knowing--not knowing what they
    need to know to make the best decisions or to take advantage of
    benefits they might otherwise miss out on.
        WISER's key initiative is the National Resource Center on
    women and Retirement, and that resource center is administrated
    and funded by HHS through the Administration on Aging and its
    Older Americans Act programs.
        Retirement is a complicated time of life and it is made up
    of complicated systems. Most working women living paycheck to
    paycheck cannot afford even the smallest financial mistake, and
    often life events such as divorce and widowhood have
    significant impact on their financial lives. The Center
    provides critical retirement planning information that helps
    women navigate these real-life changing situations. For
    example, one of our award-winning guides, ``Going It Alone: A
    Guide for Widows,'' takes the reader step by step through the
    process of claiming benefits.
        Targeted outreach. We are often asked how do we reach the
    women, as the Center has directly reached hundreds of thousands
    of women through WISER's and our partners' workshops and
    reached millions through publications. The answer is our
    partners help us succeed.
        Two nonprofits that WISER has worked with for a long time
    are MANA, a national Latina organization, a group with 25
    chapters, and the National Caucus & Center on Black Aging,
    which serves the Black/African American community through
    several State and local programs.
        The importance of trusted messengers means that the success
    in reaching these organizations results from the adaptability
    and flexibility needed to make programs work. We provide the
    partners with specialized education programs, segmented for the
    appropriate audience, and nearly ever experience is successful,
    as proven by pre-and post-testing. Unfortunately, these
    programs cannot eliminate the racial asset gaps, but they
    provide real hope, resources, and ways to improve individual
    finances in a complicated economy.
        In conclusion, I would just like to focus on some of the
    improvements that we see are needed desperately in the
    retirement system, including the following: improving and
    educating workers about the Saver's Tax Credit, credit for
    family caregivers; educating workers about auto portability,
    which lowers the annual cash-out rates for job changes;
    strengthening Social Security and Medicare so that average
    workers know how the systems work; expanding Social Security
    benefits for widows and divorced women by removing outdated
    claiming restrictions; and updating the supplemental security
    income rules by removing restrictions causing extremely low-
    income women to live well below the poverty level.
        Thank you very much.
        The Chairman. Ms. Hounsell, thanks very much for your
    testimony.
        Our third witness is Dorothea Bernique. Ms. Bernique, you
    may begin.

              STATEMENT OF DOROTHEA BERNIQUE, FOUNDER AND

                EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INCREASING H.O.P.E.,

                    NORTH CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA

        Ms. Bernique. Good morning, Senator Casey and Ranking
    Member Scott. Thank you so much for having me this morning. My
    name is Dorothea Bernique and I am the Founder and Executive
    Director of Increasing H.O.P.E. Financial Training Center. It
    does stand for Helping Others Prosper Economically.
        When I started my career several years ago as a financial
    representative, I thought this was the way that I was supposed
    to help teach individuals in the community learn how to manage
    their money. Little did I know the need was so much greater
    than I had ever imagined, and I was clearly made aware of it on
    the day that I decided to leave my job.
        On this day, a client had come in to talk about making an
    investment. She had called to set up an appointment and was
    driven by her daughter to our appointment. Part way through our
    conversation, she leaned in a little closer to me and
    whispered, ``Ms. Dorothea, what is investing?'' That was the
    day I gave myself a pink slip and decided to walk away from a
    career to start Increasing H.O.P.E. I knew that the need was
    great and that educating clients about financial literacy and
    financial products was not enough.
        Financial well-being is defined as an individual has the
    ability to control their day-to-day and month-to-month
    finances, they have the capacity to absorb a financial shock,
    and they can stay on track with their financial goals, and
    finally, they have the ability to make financial choices so
    that they can enjoy life.
        The lack of basic financial literacy of individuals, no
    matter what the income level, is low as a result of low
    financial literacy. Twenty-nine percent of South Carolina
    consumers have credit cards which have outstanding debt of 75
    percent or more. Twenty-nine percent of the consumers have
    credit cards with 75 percent credit limits mastered out.
    Fifteen percent of South Carolina households have a zero
    percent net worth. Finally, 14.4 percent have households
    reporting falling behind on their bills within the last 12
    months.
        We know that this number is now even astronomically higher
    due to COVID and the fact that 14.9 percent of households have
    a poverty rate threshold and have a lack of basic financial
    knowledge. This results in a very low well-being score of 18
    percent for South Carolina. It means that they are not in
    control of their everyday finances, they do not have the
    ability to absorb financial shock that COVID has presented, are
    they are not on track to meet their financial goals.
        The end result is not having the ability to make choices
    that allow them to enjoy life. Hence, this is how many of our
    seniors end up as greeters at Walmart when they should be
    enjoying the golden years of their lives. The lack of
    knowledge, the lack of money, the lack of money management
    skills make it a need for financial literacy and money
    management in our State and throughout our country.
        For more than 16 years now, Increasing H.O.P.E. has taught
    more than 333 classes, provided financial education to more
    than 9,500 individuals, and we have prepared free tax returns
    for more than 3,650 individuals and families, and finally,
    saved more than 300 homes from foreclosure during the housing
    crisis. As a certified HUD counseling agency, we have helped
    individuals and families improve their scores and become
    homeowners.
        Our current curriculum that is used in the community,
    dfree, is an amazing financial literacy transformation course
    for the young and senior clients. The ``D'' in dfree is not
    just for debt, but we teach our clients how to get set free
    from debt, delinquencies, and deficits so that they can become
    free to begin to make deposits, meaning become savers, make
    dividends, so that they can become investors, and have finally
    have deeds, so that they can become homeowners.
        By teaching individuals how to manage their money so that
    they can manage their lives, we get to change lives, like Ms.
    Brown, who at more than 60 years old, when she sat in front of
    us, confessing and crying, because she had made a budget for
    the very first time in her life, and this was changing her
    life. A component of the training is specifically designed for
    seniors to make financial choices that specifically impact
    them.
        To make an even greater impact, we have moved into an
    Opportunity Center that allows us to serve the community in an
    even greater way, in partnership with three local nonprofits.
    Increasing H.O.P.E., we are able to focus on community economic
    development services with the support of a $2.7 million grant
    from the EDA and an additional grant which will help us with
    the programmatic work of Increasing H.O.P.E. as we continue to
    serve the community.
        The lack of financial literacy, coupled with financial
    well-being and the impact of COVID on families may seem a
    little overwhelming. However, there is still HOPE. Increasing
    H.O.P.E. Financial Training Center will continue to make a
    difference in our community, one class at a time, one
    counseling session at time, one person at a time.
        Thank you for this opportunity to testify before the
    committee. I will be happy to answer any questions you might
    have.
        The Chairman. Ms. Bernique, thank you very much for your
    testimony.
        Our fourth and final witness for her statement is Patti
    Szarowicz. Ms. Szarowicz, you may begin.

           STATEMENT OF PATTI SZAROWICZ, AGING AND DISABILITY

            RESOURCE COUNSELOR, ATLANTA REGIONAL COMMISSION,

                 AREA AGENCY ON AGING, ATLANTA, GEORGIA

        Ms. Szarowicz. Chairman Casey, Ranking Member Scott, and
    members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to
    share my 15 years of experience serving as a certified Aging
    and Disability Resource Connection Counselor at the Atlanta
    Regional Commission. The Atlanta Regional Commission is a
    regional planning and intergovernmental agency that has
    multiple functions, including serving as the Atlanta region's
    Area Agency on Aging. In that role, we serve older residents,
    caregivers, individuals with disabilities, and grandparents
    raising grandchildren, by providing them access to information
    or resources that they need.
        Our ADRC is part of the No Wrong Door System, a
    collaborative effort of the Federal Administration for
    Community Living, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services,
    and the Veterans Health Administration. In the Atlanta region,
    we refer to this and other services to consumers as
    ``Empowerline.'' Every month, our Empowerline counselors assist
    more than 7,000 callers. Since June 2021, we have seen an
    increase in our calls by about 25 percent. Last State Fiscal
    Year we assisted 57,291 residents. In addition, people can
    access information and search for services on our website,
    empowerline.org, which has experienced a steady increase in
    visits.
        Our 27 full-time equivalent Empowerline counselors respond
    to requests that come in via phone, email, fax, chat, and walk-
    ins. We provide information on housing, transportation, in-home
    services, financial assistance, and more. The ARC is the entry
    point for the Georgia Medicare Home and Community-Based
    Program, known as the elderly and disabled waiver program, as
    well as the entry point for services funded through the Older
    Americans Act.
        The amount of time that counselors spend on the phone with
    each person averages 25 minutes, but many cases take much
    longer, sometimes multiple days, depending on the nature of the
    call. Simply, listening to a person's story can be supportive.
    Every call we receive is treated with a person-centered,
    holistic approach to help the person with all of their needs.
        During the 15 years I have worked at the ARC, the calls
    have become increasingly more complex, because of the callers'
    difficulty navigating health care and financial benefits such
    as Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. Many people do not
    have a support system. The person may be widowed, living alone,
    estranged from family, or family lives out of town and can only
    provide limited support. Lacking computer skills or access to
    the internet creates further barriers. Oftentimes I can hear
    the pain and despair in their voices.
        These barriers and lack of support system, we frequently
    are the only person's lifeline for obtaining information that
    can educate and support that person in making critical, life-
    changing decisions. People are looking for someone to help
    translate the information they receive in the mail, hear on the
    radio, see on the television, or information on websites, such
    as Medicare and Social Security. As an unbiased, person-
    centered and free resource, Empowerline counselors can be
    trusted to provide help without the ulterior motive or for our
    agency's financial gain.
        Financial and health literacy should include knowing where
    to turn for trusted help when the system is too complicated to
    navigate on your own. We aim to get at the root cause of the
    challenges people are facing and help them understand what is
    available to them and how to access it. Without help from
    Empowerline counselors, people can find themselves, for lack of
    knowledge, in one of the following scenarios: enrolled in a
    Medicare plan paying $20 to $40 copays when they are eligible
    for Medicare, Medicare, and have no copays; paying Medicare
    Part B premiums, not aware of eligibility for extra help or
    because they forgot to renew their Medicare.
        Congress can help us better support older residents, adults
    with disabilities, and their care partners by supporting
    additional financial support for ADRC, so we can hire
    additional counselors. ARC receives funding from Georgia's
    Medicaid agency for the Medicaid HCBS waiver access, and
    Georgia's State Unit on Aging. However, our State Unit on Aging
    only designates $37,000 per year for ADRC information
    counseling, not enough funding for even one full-time staff
    person; public awareness of the national network of Area
    Agencies on Aging and the invaluable, unbiased guidance we can
    support for people; and more user-friendly technology for
    documenting client data, better integration across our
    technology systems, which include the telephone, resource data
    base, and client management systems.
        Thank you for this opportunity to testify before the
    Committee and allowing me to share my experience and passion
    for what I do in serving older Americans, adults with
    disabilities, and their care partners. I look forward to
    answering your questions. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Ms. Szarowicz, thanks so much for your
    testimony. I will start a round of questions and actually start
    with you for the first question. In your testimony you talked
    about the extensive work that the Atlanta Regional Commission
    does to assist individuals looking to enroll in Medicare. We
    know that many older adults new to Medicare face a complicated
    enrollment process.
        I mentioned earlier, last year Senator Young and I
    introduced the BENES Act. The bill includes provisions that
    directs the Federal Government to provide advanced notice to
    individuals approaching Medicare age about the basic enrollment
    rules.
        Given your work assisting people with Medicare enrollment,
    how would this legislation help older adults and people with
    disabilities with regard to the enrollment process?
        Ms. Szarowicz. Chairman Casey, thank you for that question.
    I am not an expert on legislation and have not read the bill
    you have proposed. However, I do know that if individuals would
    receive clear guidance from the Federal Government about
    Medicare right before they enroll it would meet a need for
    information at a critical decision-making time.
        I say this because of the experience with speaking with
    highly educated individuals who report being very confused by
    the complexity of the Medicare enrollment process and call the
    ADRC for information and guidance.
        The Chairman. Well thanks very much for that, and I really
    appreciate your testimony.
        I will turn next to Ms. Walsh, and I will not use the
    acronym, just so everyone knows, the full identification of
    what we are talking about when we use an acronym. The Financial
    Industry Regulatory Authority Foundation, the so-called FINRA
    Foundation, supports a number of educational initiatives
    provided through libraries.
        As of 2019, the most recent number we have for Pennsylvania
    is 470 libraries across Pennsylvania serving, in most cases,
    the most rural parts of our State and underserved communities.
    We also know that many of the people who patronage those
    libraries are older adults and people with disabilities.
        Through the most recent infrastructure bill, signed into
    law this past year, there are critical investments in
    broadband, so-called high-speed internet, helping, ``community
    anchor institutions,'' like public libraries, better serve
    their communities.
        Ms. Walsh, can you share more about how libraries can serve
    as vehicles of both financial education as well as financial
    literacy for older adults and people with disabilities?
        Ms. Walsh. I would be delighted to. The FINRA Foundation
    has been collaborating with the American Library Association
    for more than 15 years in helping to build the capacity of
    public libraries and the librarians who work there to be a
    resource for personal finance topics and investing topics, and
    as a result of that there have been thousands of programs
    nationwide that have been focused on particularly people who
    have had limited access to the financial mainstream. It is very
    consumer focused and unbiased. No sales pitches are allowed.
        Libraries know their communities. They serve their
    communities. As with other institutions they have pivoted to
    digital delivery, and they are increasingly a good resource in
    the community. The Foundation has been working with ALA to
    train librarians through a series of online modules. The topics
    that the training covers include many of the issues that were
    identified in the Committee's report--claiming Social Security,
    Medicare issues, all the financial planning types of issues
    that you identified in the report.
        Another way that libraries can be service to the community
    is through helping disaster recovery, and that is something
    that FINRA has been doing recently in Philadelphia, with
    hurricanes this summer. We provide disaster recovery grants to
    libraries to help libraries be a hub for people recovering from
    the financial aftermath of disaster.
        The Chairman. Ms. Walsh, thanks very much.
        I will turn next to Ranking Member Scott, but before doing
    that I just want to give folks notice, because of a scheduling
    change in another committee, the Health, Education, Labor, and
    Pensions Committee, we are going to try to wrap this hearing up
    at 10:50 or 10:55, so that we can get to that next meeting.
        I will turn next to Ranking Member Scott.
        Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will start
    with Ms. Bernique.
        Financial literacy is a core component of the American
    dream. It empowers consumers to responsibly participate in the
    mainstream economic ecosystem. According to the National
    Financial Capability Study, approximately two out of three
    Americans are unable to answer three of the five financial
    literacy questions correctly. Older Americans might also assume
    that saving is not as important as it would be if they were a
    little younger.
        Ms. Bernique, what advice do you give to seniors to help
    them boost their financial management skills?
        Ms. Bernique. Thank you, Senator Scott, for the question.
    We run into this quite a bit, especially with our older or
    senior clients and individuals. The first thing that we tell
    them is this: it is never too late. Many times they will think
    having gone through various phases of life that it is too late
    to implement principles.
        We also teach them and let them know that money management
    is a skill set, a soft skill set, with a principle that, once
    implemented, it will work for you, no matter how young or how
    old, and that they should continue to engage in educating
    themselves and implementing the money management principles
    that have the ability and the capacity literally to change
    their life. Many times it can be something as simple as one
    money management tip, such as making sure that you save a
    little bit of your finances from every bit of income that you
    have, which will prepare you for an emergency.
        While it may seem small, something like that can actually
    be life-changing to both the young and our older citizens that
    we serve.
        Senator Tim Scott. Let me continue with you for a second,
    Ms. Bernique. One of the things you said earlier in your
    introduction or your introductory remarks was ``Manage your
    money, manage your life.'' I think that is a such a powerful
    statement. Manage your money, you manage your life, and you
    just talked about the importance of savings. No matter what
    your age, taking a few points or few percent out your every-
    week paycheck or every-other-week paychecks and saving that for
    the future is really important, and I really appreciate you
    distilling that fact.
        Another component to financial literacy that seems to be
    more important today than it was maybe ever but certainly 20 or
    30 years ago, is the issue of credit in the area of financial
    literacy. I will say, without any question, that what you look
    like on paper might be more important than anything else, your
    credit score.
        Can you just talk to us for a few minutes, whatever amount
    of time you need, about the importance of managing your credit
    as a part of financial literacy?
        Ms. Bernique. Yes, sir. The importance of managing your
    credit in financial literacy really helps us to be able to have
    choices in life. Senator Scott, as you said, what it looks
    like, and what you look like on paper can be just as important,
    if even not more important, than other things.
        The credit, and the need for credit--we live in a credit-
    driven society, and so what we teach individuals is unless we
    are independently wealthy, you need credit. It is very
    important for us, as citizens, as individuals, young and old,
    to give credit to our credit. It has merit, so to take the time
    to pay attention to this particular area of our lives as it
    allows us to have options and choices as you go through life,
    and many times, it will be that number on paper that will make
    the difference between whether or not you, as a senior citizen,
    have to deal with a predatory lender or whether or not you can
    go into a traditional bank or lender to conduct business.
        Credit is very, very, very important. I think individuals
    being mindful of this will help them be able to be prepared for
    some of the choices and limitations that they run into as a
    senior citizen.
        Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Ms. Bernique. With my
    remaining time, which is not much, Ms. Walsh, would you talk
    about the importance of lifetime options in your portfolio,
    from a financial perspective? One of the things I will say is,
    having spent about 20-plus years in the financial services
    industry, so many of the annuities did not have the lifetime
    options, so sometimes you could outlive your money.
        Can you talk about the importance of lifetime options, with
    the amount of time that we have left?
        Ms. Walsh. Thank you, Senator. That is an important issue.
    When people transition from accumulating assets to de-
    accumulating assets they do have choices with what they can do
    with their money. Some people have a pension. Many Americans
    rely on Social Security. If you have accumulated savings in a
    401(k) or an IRA, you need to think about what to do with that.
        For many people, having guaranteed income can be critical
    to being able to meet expenses. Deciding how much of your
    portfolio to annuitize, especially if you do not have a very
    big portfolio, is a huge decision with important
    considerations, so it is a key topic. I see that we are out of
    time, but thank you.
        Senator Tim Scott. Thank you very much, and Chairman, I may
    come back to the witness in a second round, if we have time. We
    both have to get to the same Health Committee so we may not
    have that time. Thank you, sir.
        The Chairman. Thank you very much for that, and we will
    turn next to Senator Gillibrand.
        Senator Gillibrand. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
        I found your testimony very, very interesting, and can you
    expand a little bit upon some of the things that younger people
    need to maintain and bear in mind to prepare for aging? You
    have talked a little bit about putting money aside in every
    paycheck. What are some other tools that younger people can use
    so that they are better prepared?
        Ms. Bernique. To me?
        Senator Gillibrand. To anyone who wants to answer it.
        Ms. Bernique. I will answer. To help individuals or young
    people prepare, it is important, as we mentioned here in the
    State of South Carolina, that financial literacy start at a
    very young age and that we begin to implement money management
    principles and principles into the lives of individuals so that
    it becomes just a part of their lifestyle, a part of who they
    are, that saving money on a routine or regular basis is not
    something that is a last resort or something you do after you
    see if you have money left over, so it is a matter of
    implementing principles at an early age, training our children
    to realize the importance of money and finances, and then just
    making it a part of their lifestyle.
        Senator Gillibrand. That makes sense. Ms. Hounsell, I want
    to talk a little bit about the role of caregivers. Given their
    longevity and frequent role as caregivers, how can women
    prepare for their future financial health and stability, in
    particular? A lot of the hearing we focused on just-in-time
    decisions for older adults or people with disabilities, but how
    would you make recommendations, from your perspective, for
    young people that impact the quality of life at a later stage,
    and, in particular, for female caregivers?
        Ms. Hounsell. Well I think what needs to happen is that it
    is complicated when you start working, you know, and you need
    to know what to expect, what to look for, what benefits you
    get, whether or not there is a retirement plan offered, so that
    you are jumping in and starting as soon as you can.
        We run a program for college students every year where they
    write a paper and then there is a winner, you know, with what
    they would do to change the retirement system, and over and
    over again they tell us the same thing--they had no idea about
    any of these programs, that they have no idea what, you know,
    anything entails, and yet they see their grandparents
    struggling, many of them, and that is where they get their
    learning experience. Basically, they do not want to end up in
    that situation when they are older.
        Senator Gillibrand. Yes. Research shows that a large
    portion of older adults and people with disabilities have low
    levels of financial literacy, and we have heard a lot about
    that. Some of these just-in-time decisions like deciding
    whether to annuitize a 401(k) have a lasting impact on a
    person's well-being and security.
        With the growing issue of misinformation and disinformation
    on the internet and elsewhere, attaining the knowledge and
    skills to make financial decisions can be daunting. Ms. Walsh,
    in your role as Senior Vice President of Investor Education,
    what do you find are the greatest barriers to education for
    older adults and people living with disabilities about
    financial literacy, and how do you recommend we overcome them?
        Ms. Walsh. Thank you for that question because it is a very
    important issue. The barriers that older adults face when it
    comes, and people with disabilities when it comes to attaining
    financial education are often that it is not offered or made
    available in a place that they have access to. You know, the
    reality is that only about one in five Americans have availed
    of financial education opportunities and very few have been
    offered them.
        Making financial education more available to individuals is
    one of the important considerations if we want to expand
    financial literacy, and expanding financial literacy is
    important because it is connected with better financial
    behaviors in life. People are more likely to save, less likely
    to be engaging in predatory borrowing behaviors, more likely to
    have a will and to be thinking about their retirement and their
    eState plan if they have higher levels of financial literacy.
        Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you
    to the witnesses.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Gillibrand.
        As I mentioned earlier, we have a number of Senators who
    are juggling multiple hearings and other conflicts in their
    schedules. Senator Warnock has joined us, as I know we had some
    Senators join us earlier who may have had to leave. We
    appreciate Senator Warnock being with us.
        We will go next, just as a previous, after Senator Braun
    will be Senator Warren. Senator Braun?
        Senator Braun. Thank you, Chairman Casey, Ranking Member
    Scott.
        Interesting topic. I do not know how anything could be more
    relevant currently than increasing your financial literacy. You
    know, when I look at the Federal Government, it would be nice
    to see a place dispensing that valuable information, maybe
    practicing a little bit in terms of what it tries to preach at
    the individual level. I do not know that we have been at a more
    precarious spot, that I have observed, since I got an economics
    degree and was a CFO and CEO for a company I ran for 37 years,
    and see a place that does not budget anymore. We pretty well do
    a resolution. We do nothing on time. We are still trying to
    sort out spending that should have been done almost four or 5
    months ago.
        I think that creates a credibility issue. It does not
    diminish the importance of the topic, but I think it really
    begs a question, where should this be focused in terms of where
    would it actually be coming from a place that might have the
    kind of consistency of practicing the principles that I think
    we are trying to dispense when it comes to financial literacy.
        You cannot borrow money for consumption, and we do that in
    the Federal Government, and do it at a higher percentage every
    year. You cannot live beyond your means and expect to be able
    to finance that. I really think that the whole issue, as
    important as it is, probably needs to be articulated in places
    where you could attach this discussion as far back as middle
    school, especially in high school.
        What I hear more than anything, in traveling through all
    the counties in Indiana, is give me a potential employee that
    has got some life skills. Financial literacy would be one of
    them, and maybe that is more aptly the domain of our local
    school boards, our local education, and maybe that is the place
    to start.
        That being said, I have got a question for Ms. Walsh. Do
    you think that with all the money we do spend on this subject
    already, kind of the poor results that we are generating
    generally, the example that we set here in our own Federal
    Government, is it worth the time and additional resources to be
    trying to push more through the Federal Government, or is this
    more properly the domain of local educators and curriculum in
    middle school and high school?
        Ms. Walsh. I appreciate the question, Senator, because
    tackling the issue of financial literacy and building financial
    wellness in our country will take multiple players on multiple
    levels. What we have seen is that financial education does
    work. It does have an impact, especially over time. The higher
    the quality and the higher the quantity of financial education
    the more likely individuals are to be engaging in more positive
    financial behaviors.
        It is critical that there are multiple players in the
    field. The nonprofits that we have heard from through our
    colleagues who have provided testimony, State and Federal
    agencies, all have a role to play. When it comes to schools, we
    do see that when there are rigorous requirements concerning
    financial education in the classroom that over time, later in
    life, the people who have been exposed to those financial
    education programs are less likely to be engaging in costly
    credit card behavior, costly student loan borrowing, and
    predatory lending.
        Senator Braun. Would you be able to cite one or two
    examples of Federal programs that dispense that information,
    have that impact that you are referring to?
        Ms. Walsh. Senator, while I do not have access to the
    efficacy of programs that are distributed by Federal agencies
    we do work in partnership with a number of Federal agencies,
    from the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal
    Reserve Board to the Treasury and CFPB, and we do all work
    together to measure the success of financial education and how
    we can promote financial wellness, which is why one of the
    recommendations that I would make is there be support for
    efforts to really suss out what works when it comes to
    financial education for different populations.
        It is not a monolithic. There is no one-size-fits-all
    solution to furthering financial wellness. It really needs to
    take into account the different needs of different audiences.
        Senator Braun. Well I think that broad-based approach does
    make sense. I can tell you that in places like Indiana it is
    being given increased attention to life skills. Many lawyers
    are looking for individuals out of high school and have those
    skills minimally, and most schools across Indiana are starting
    to get back into making sure that kids come through middle
    school and high school with these basic life skill sets,
    including financial literacy.
        Thanks for having the hearing.
        The Chairman. Senator Braun, thanks very much for your
    questions.
        We will turn next to Senator Warren, but I just want to let
    Senator Kelly know he will be after Senator Warren, and Senator
    Blumenthal.
        Senator Warren?
        Senator Warren. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank
    you for holding this hearing.
        Financial literacy is critical for Americans who are trying
    to make key decisions like planning for retirement, but low-
    incomes families navigating a thin social safety net that gives
    them too little help, all the education and counseling in the
    world cannot magically make two plus two add up to ten.
        I want to start--take a look at Supplemental Social
    Security income, a part of Social Security. SSI provides a
    critical lifeline for eight million low-income, elderly, and
    disabled Americans, including over one million disabled
    children and families that care for them. Right now, our rules
    are outdated, they are punitive, and they squeeze way too many
    struggling families out of this program and tap about four out
    of 10 recipients in poverty.
        Ms. Hounsell, you are the President of the Women's
    Institute for a Secure Retirement. You help women plan for
    retirement and financial security. I just want to ask you about
    how you would counsel a woman who is receiving SSI. The maximum
    monthly SSI benefit--maximum--is $841 in 2022. The average
    benefit is below $600.
        Ms. Hounsell, is $600 a month adequate to live in financial
    security and save for retirement?
        Ms. Hounsell. Thanks, Senator, for covering that issue. No,
    it is not in any way adequate. Obviously, it is only half of
    the poverty level for elders.
        Senator Warren. Okay. This is not going to work. This woman
    might have to consider working, if she is able, in order to be
    able to make ends meet. Now remember, as an SSI recipient she
    is elderly or disabled or caring for a disabled child, so she
    may not be able to work. Let's say she is considering it. She
    is considering working.
        Ms. Hounsell, given restrictive SSI rules, would you advise
    her to go to work?
        Ms. Hounsell. Well, I mean, every situation is different,
    obviously, but I think I would make the person aware of the
    amount that she would be allowed to earn, which is a very small
    amount, and maybe just start looking, you know, for other
    benefits and things that are available to her, that she may not
    be aware of. Obviously, you cannot earn--I think what it is--is
    less than $75 a month, would be for the average person on SSI.
        Senator Warren. Okay, so here she is, based on the average
    benefit she is at half the poverty level, right? She is below
    the poverty line. The most she can earn before she starts
    losing her benefits is, you are telling me, $75 a month, right?
        Ms. Hounsell. Right.
        Senator Warren. Okay. Let's say she is a senior. How about
    claiming Social Security? Will that get her out of this
    problem?
        Ms. Hounsell. No. No, because she is not allowed to earn,
    you know, I think it is something like $20 or something would
    stop her there, so, you know, it is unlikely that she would be
    able to have a job and to do that.
        Senator Warren. She is at half of the poverty level, that
    we have established in this country, and if she goes over $20
    in terms of collecting her Social Security it will just reduce
    her benefits, dollar for dollar, so here she is. She is below
    the poverty level because of her circumstances. She receives an
    SSI check, but she is going to be punished for working,
    punished for claiming Social Security, and punished if she
    saves any money. I want to add that she will be punished if she
    saves too much, because SSI beneficiaries are allowed a maximum
    of only $2,000 in savings, and that includes their retirement
    accounts.
        By the way, she will also be punished for marrying, because
    SSI benefits and asset limits kick in for married recipients.
    She will even be punished for receiving groceries from a friend
    or housing from her family. In other words, every avenue she
    would try to take to lift herself out of poverty is an avenue
    that she will be penalized for under our current law.
        Now, Ms. Hounsell, I know that you and I agree that
    financial literacy is important, but in addition, would
    reforming the help that SSI recipients get help overcome these
    barriers to escaping poverty and planning for retirement? In
    other words, if we just changed law and tried to give more
    people opportunities to get out of poverty when they are
    getting SSI, would that be helpful?
        Ms. Hounsell. Yes. I mean, I do not think there have been
    reforms from the time that the bill was introduced in the early
    1970's by President Nixon, so I think it is time to make those
    reforms and change that. Our office would also check with the
    person who is contacting us and whether ABLE accounts are, you
    know, an option, where the rules are different for the ABLE
    account.
        Senator Warren. Yes. Well thank you. I appreciate it, Ms.
    Hounsell. You know, after decades of ignoring this problem it
    is time for Congress to make reforms to SSI. Right now I am
    working with Senators Brown and Sanders to pass the SSI
    Restoration Act, which would include raising the SSI benefit
    rate, and it would also revise a lot of these outdated rules
    that effectively serve as barriers to saving, barriers to
    financial independence, barriers to getting married.
        Including even just $8 billion in the Build Back Better Act
    to raise SSI asset limits, or $11 billion to raise the earned
    income disregard would be a significant down payment on
    economic justice for SSI recipients and one more reason to pass
    Build Back Better. SSI's original goal was to ensure that no
    elderly or disabled American would be forced to subsist on
    below poverty level incomes, and yet that is exactly what this
    law has turned into. We can and we must change the law so it
    fulfills its original goals.
        Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for this
    hearing and thank you very much to our witnesses.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Warren. Senator Kelly.
        Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for holding
    this hearing today.
        Ms. Hounsell, I wanted to speak to you about housing costs,
    specifically in Arizona. You know, I have heard from seniors
    throughout the State who are rightfully concerned about the
    lack of affordable housing for folks who are on fixed incomes.
        Several months ago, my office learned about a senior who
    was facing eviction, who was about to get kicked out of their
    home. Now thankfully our team was able to connect with this
    person and help them access immediate support as well as some
    long-term rental assistance that was made available through
    COVID relief packages, so we were able to successfully deal
    with this problem.
        Ms. Hounsell, first I want to take this opportunity to
    remind Arizonans that my office is here to help, so if anybody
    is watching this and you need help with a Federal agency please
    know that my office is here for you, and I encourage you to
    reach out.
        Ms. Hounsell, it is clear Arizonans, particularly seniors
    on fixed incomes in Arizona, are feeling a lot of pressure in
    this housing market with increased costs. I know that this is
    not unique to my State. When your organization educates folks
    considering or planning for retirement, how do you address
    preparing for unexpected costs? What is your advice to them?
        Ms. Hounsell. Well, I mean, what we have been doing for a
    long time, it is not easy, is advising people to have emergency
    funds so that, first of all, they protect themselves when
    something unexpected comes along.
        The one thing that I have seen in the 25 years that I have
    been working on this, and housing is not one of my special
    areas of expertise--there may be somebody else who can answer
    that question better than I can--is that the salvation for most
    low-income women has always been that affordable housing, the
    senior housing. Since that is not as available and there are so
    many more people with needs I do not know what will happen to a
    whole population of people that will get lost. I mean, we have
    women contacting us that have been living in their cars for the
    last couple of years. I mean, that happens over and over again,
    that people are making those car payments so that they know
    that they have someplace to go.
        Senator Kelly. I visited with seniors at a senior center in
    northern Arizona maybe about 6 months ago, and I was at a table
    with about four gentlemen, and they live in a senior affordable
    housing that was about to reach the limit, the time limit,
    where it had to remain affordable housing for the owners of the
    development to receive the tax credits. They were going to have
    to transition out of that facility because they could no longer
    afford the rent increase.
        One gentleman told me that he had called around to 60--or
    every affordable housing location within like 60 miles of where
    they were and he could not find an affordable housing unit.
        What do you think the Federal Government should be doing
    here to solve this housing crisis for seniors receiving
    affordable housing? I know you said it is not your expertise.
        Ms. Hounsell. Well, I am just not sure--I know there are a
    lot of provisions in these bills and people talk about this all
    the time. I am just not familiar with the legislation that is
    being offered. Maybe somebody else is more familiar. I just
    know that it is not available, especially in the cities. I
    mean, that is why the homeless population is, you know,
    constantly growing everywhere, including in Washington, D.C.,
    where, you know, a number of us at this hearing also live. It
    just, you know, multiplies.
        Senator Kelly. Ms. Bernique, how about you?
        Ms. Bernique. Affordable housing is expansive across our
    country. Part of the problem comes from just the lack of stock,
    as there is not the availability, and the other part comes from
    the high cost of living in areas which make affordable housing
    or the ability to afford a place to live unaffordable for most
    individuals, due to the fact that their cost of living for just
    housing alone ends up exceeding 50 to 60 percent of their
    income.
        Part of the way that we can solve affordable housing as a
    HUD housing counseling agency is just the affordability or the
    number of stock. Just having homes available whereby
    individuals at lower income levels can actually afford, meaning
    affordability is afforded to them based on what their income
    is.
        Senator Kelly. Well thank you to you both, and Mr.
    Chairman, again thank you for having this hearing. I had some
    further questions. We can submit them for the record. Thanks
    again for having this hearing.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Kelly. We will turn next
    to Senator Blumenthal.
        Senator Blumenthal. Yes, thanks to you and Senator Scott
    for this hearing. Very important, very timely, and very much on
    the minds of many of the seniors in Connecticut.
        I was fortunate to introduce, with my colleague from
    Connecticut, Senator Larson, just a few months ago, the Social
    Security 2100 Act--Senator Van Hollen joined me in it--which
    not only will enhance the Social Security Trust Fund's long-
    term insolvency but meet many of the issues that have been
    raised, including very eloquently by Senator Warren. I think we
    need to support some of Social Security's most vulnerable
    beneficiaries including widows and widowers, caregivers, and
    our oldest seniors.
        Ms. Hounsell, in your testimony you speak to the imbalance
    between men and women caregivers in their retirement years. You
    have shared that women more often leave the labor force or work
    part-time to accommodate family needs, whether that be for
    children or elderly parents. Another study shows that single
    women who care for elderly parents are 2.5 times more likely
    than other caregivers to live in poverty in retirement, often
    because they leave the workforce to care for others.
        At the same time, studies have found that women often
    outlive their male counterparts, leaving them not only as
    caregivers for their spouses but also as widows in their later
    years. It is cited that at age 85 about 86 percent of women are
    single.
        Our Social Security 2100 Act provides caregiver credits to
    ensure that caregivers are not penalized in retirement for
    taking time out of the workforce to care for children or other
    dependents, and the legislation includes improvements in
    benefits for widows and widowers in two-income households. This
    bill also ensures that widows and widowers receive 75 percent
    of the combined Social Security benefits the couple was
    receiving prior to one spouse's death.
        I realize that is a lot in a very short time for you to
    digest, but I wonder if you could comment on your view on these
    provisions and how crucial it is for Congress to address the
    disparities of our most caring workforce that includes 48
    million family caregivers.
        Ms. Hounsell. I think it is immensely important. I mean, we
    recently launched a Financial Caregiver Hub, just to alert
    caregivers, basically, to what the financial costs are that
    they are likely to incur and how important having a plan for
    all of this is really matters.
        I think what that legislation does is it hits on the most
    vulnerable groups--those who are divorced, those who are
    widowed--and it is always unexpected and there is always a
    great loss of income when people go through those life-changing
    situations, and so do the eldercare. It is like who will pay?
        One of the things we have tried to do too is to help
    families look at these financial caregiver agreements so that
    if one person happens to live close to the parents does not
    give up everything and yet become unpaid because she is just
    going to be poor down the road, like the statistics that you
    mentioned.
        I think it is really key that those claiming rules that you
    have all considered in that legislation really would make a
    difference for so many vulnerable women.
        Senator Blumenthal. I am about to run out of time but I
    just want to make the additional point that Ms. Szarowicz
    speaks, in her testimony, to the importance of knowing waiting
    periods regarding disability determination and eligible, as
    well as information on when and how to claim Social Security
    benefits. My Social Security 2100 Act ends the 5-month waiting
    period to receive disability benefits, and I think will provide
    much-needed assistance to people who are in need.
        I want to just finish by thanking Senator Casey for his
    leadership on this entire area of caregiving to our seniors and
    elderly. He has really been a champion and thanks again for the
    hearing and thanks for this opportunity to participate.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal.
        Now that we have come to the end of the hearing I wanted
    to, in the interest of time because of the demands of our next
    engagement, both Senator Scott and I with the Health Committee,
    I will submit my closing statement for the record, but just
    note for the record two things. Number one, is we want to thank
    our witnesses--Ms. Walsh, Ms. Hounsell, Ms. Bernique, and Ms.
    Szarowicz--for their testimony. We could spend hours just on
    part of this topic, and we are grateful for the insights and
    the experience that you bring to bear on this. The second point
    I will make is that the deadline for questions for the record
    will be January 20th.
        I will next turn to Ranking Member Scott.
        Senator Tim Scott. I will suggest that I too thank you all
    for being here and look forward to continuing this discussion
    in the future. I will submit my closing statement for the
    record as well.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott. Thanks again
    to all of our witnesses. We are adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 10:51 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

                     CLOSING STATEMENT OF SENATOR
                     ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., CHAIRMAN

        Today's hearing highlights the importance of getting
    Americans support "just in time"- right when people are making
    important financial decisions.
        Providing this assistance can make a critical difference in
    people's lives.
        We learned that many older adults seek help from someone
    they trust to make decisions about Social Security, retirement
    income, their homes and Medicare.
        These trusted sources can include their employers, a wide
    range of professionals and even their family and friends, and
    for the hardest to reach individuals, organizations in the
    community and government agencies are often their main source
    of trusted advice and support.
        Our continued support of these organizations is essential.
        We must properly fund the Social Security Administration
    and programs like State Health Insurance Assistance Programs
    and Aging and Disability Resource Centers.
        Finally, we must strengthen critical benefits like Social
    Security and Supplemental Security Income (SSI), which are key
    to helping seniors and people with disabilities to build
    financial security and save for their futures.
        Simplifying processes and rules, especially for benefits
    like Social Security and SSI, will reduce confusion and provide
    people with clear and meaningful choices, allowing them to make
    sound decisions and improve their financial situation.
        I want to once again thank all the witnesses for
    contributing their time and expertise today.
        If any Senators have additional questions for the witnesses
    or statements to be added, the hearing record will be kept open
    for 7 days, until next Thursday, January 20.
        Thank you all for participating today and this concludes
    today's hearing.

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                                    APPENDIX

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                          Prepared Witness Statements

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                     Questions and Responses for the Record

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                      Additional Statements for the Record

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