    [Senate Hearing 117-411]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 117-411

                      NOMINATIONS OF ROBERT L. SANTOS AND
                                  ED GONZALEZ

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                   HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

           NOMINATION OF ROBERT L. SANTOS TO BE DIRECTOR, U.S. CENSUS
           BUREAU, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE, AND ED GONZALEZ TO BE
       ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT, U.S.
                        DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                                 JULY 15, 2021
                                   __________

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                           Printed for the use of the
            Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs

                     [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                     U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    46-568 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2022

            COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS

                       GARY C. PETERS, Michigan, Chairman

    THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware           ROB PORTMAN, Ohio
    MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire         RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin
    KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona              RAND PAUL, Kentucky
    JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
    ALEX PADILLA, California             MITT ROMNEY, Utah
    JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  RICK SCOTT, Florida
                                         JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri

                       David M. Weinberg, Staff Director
                        Zachary I. Schram, Chief Counsel
                          Claudine J. Brenner, Counsel
                        Nitka Khani, Research Assistant
                    Pamela Thiessen, Minority Staff Director
        Andrew Dockham, Minority Chief Counsel and Deputy Staff Director
                       Renee T. Sheehy, Minority Detailee
           Jeremy H. Hayes, Minority Senior Professional Staff Member
                         Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk
                         Thomas J. Spino, Hearing Clerk

                                C O N T E N T S

                                     ------
    Opening statements:
                                                                       Page
        Senator Peters...............................................     1
        Senator Portman..............................................     6
        Senator Johnson..............................................    12
        Senator Hawley...............................................    14
        Senator Carper...............................................    17
        Senator Hassan...............................................    23
        Senator Rosen................................................    25
        Senator Scott................................................    27
        Senator Padilla..............................................    29
        Senator Lankford.............................................    32
    Prepared statements:
        Senator Peters...............................................    37
        Senator Portman..............................................    39

                                   WITNESSES
                            Thursday, July 15, 2021

    Robert L. Santos to be Director, U.S. Census Bureau, U.S.
      Department of Commerce
        Testimony....................................................     3
        Prepared statement...........................................    42
        Biographical and professional information....................    44
        Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics.................    59
        Responses to pre-hearing questions...........................    63
        Responses to post-hearing questions..........................    99
        Letters of support...........................................   112
    Ed Gonzalez to be Assistant Secretary for Immigration and Customs
      Enforcement, U.S. Department of Homeland Security
        Testimony....................................................     5
        Prepared statement...........................................   114
        Biographical and professional information....................   116
        Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics.................   139
        Responses to pre-hearing questions...........................   143
        Responses to post-hearing questions..........................   165
        Letter of support............................................   185

                NOMINATIONS OF ROBERT L. SANTOS AND ED GONZALEZ

                                  ----------

                            THURSDAY, JULY 15, 2021

                                         U.S. Senate,
                               Committee on Homeland Security
                                      and Governmental Affairs,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m., via
    Webex and in room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon.
    Gary Peters, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
        Present: Senators Peters, Carper, Hassan, Sinema, Rosen,
    Padilla, Ossoff, Portman, Johnson, Lankford, Scott, and Hawley.

                OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN PETERS\1\

        Chairman Peters. The Committee will come to order. Today we
    are considering two important nominations, Robert Santos to be
    Director of the United States Census Bureau (USCB) within the
    Department of Commerce, and Sheriff Ed Gonzalez, to be
    Assistant Secretary for Immigration and Customs Enforcement
    (ICE), commonly referred to as the Director for ICE within the
    Department of Homeland Security (DHS).
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Peters appear in the Appendix
    on page 37.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Welcome to both of you and to your family members joining
    us today, and congratulations on your nominations. Thank you
    for your willingness to take on these critical and incredibly
    important positions.
        The Census Bureau is the leading source of quality data
    about our nation's people and economy. The decennial census and
    the Bureau's surveys are critical for helping communities,
    businesses, and people across our nation ensure that they have
    the resources and information that they need in order to
    thrive.
        Mr. Santos, if confirmed, you will lead the Bureau as it
    completes the 2020 Census, plans for 2030, and administers the
    Bureau's critical demographic and economic surveys in a
    changing nation. I know that you understand the importance of
    the Census Bureau's mission and the challenges that it faces.
        As an expert in statistical research and survey design who
    has worked extensively with the Bureau, you know that
    stakeholders rely on the Census Bureau to produce data that is
    both reliable and accurate. You also know that transparency and
    accountability are essential for building and maintain trust in
    the Bureau and its data.
        I am looking forward to hearing more about your background
    and your vision for the Census Bureau.
        Sheriff Gonzales, if confirmed, you will lead an agency
    with a vast public safety mandate. In addition to immigration
    enforcement responsibilities, ICE contains the Department of
    Homeland Security principal investigate entity, Homeland
    Security Investigations (HSI), which is charged with
    investigating transnational criminal activity that threatens
    the safety of our communities all across the United States.
    ICE's law enforcement professionals combat narcotics,
    smuggling, terrorist networks, human trafficking, financial
    crimes, and other threats to public safety.
        As you know from your extensive law enforcement background,
    this is a vital and extraordinarily difficult task. ICE and its
    workforce face no shortage of both internal and external
    challenges.
        ICE has been without a Senate-confirmed director for 4\1/2\
    years, and this absence of stable leadership has made it even
    more difficult for ICE to effectively carry out its mission.
    ICE urgently needs a qualified, committed leader who will
    tackle the agency's challenges head on.
        If confirmed, you will be responsible for rebuilding trust
    with ICE workforce, Congress, State, and local partners, as
    well as other stakeholders. This means supporting and improving
    what is working, but also recognizing and correcting what is
    not working.
        From our earlier conversation I know that you understand
    and are prepared for this very difficult work ahead, and I
    greatly appreciate your commitment to both accountability and
    transparency. I look forward to hearing more about your
    qualifications and plans to lead this critical agency.
        We will normally now turn it over to Senator Portman, who
    is my Ranking Member, but as we discussed before this hearing
    we have a lot of things happening simultaneous. We are all
    double-booked. Senator Portman is very engaged, I know, in some
    of the budget negotiations. He will be joining us shortly. When
    he arrives he will be making a statement, or putting one into
    the record.
        So now it is the practice of this Committee to swear in
    witnesses, so if you will please stand and raise our right
    hand.
        Do you swear that the testimony you will give before this
    Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
    the truth, so help you, God?
        Mr. Santos. I do.
        Mr. Gonzalez. I do.
        Chairman Peters. Please be seated.
        Our first nominee is Robert Santos, nominated to be the
    Director of U.S. Census Bureau within the Department of
    Commerce. Mr. Santos is currently the Vice President and Chief
    Methodologist at the Urban Institute. He is a nationally
    recognized expert in survey sampling and survey design, with
    over 40 years of experience in social science and policy
    research.
        After receiving his Bachelor of Arts (BA) in mathematics
    from Trinity University in San Antonio, and a Masters of Art
    (MA) in statistics from the University of Michigan--Go Blue--
    Mr. Santos went on to hold several leadership roles, including
    Vice President of Statistics and Methodology at the University
    of Chicago's National Opinion Research Center; Director of
    Survey Operations at the University of Michigan; Survey
    Research Center and Partner and Executive Vice President at a
    Texas market research firm.
        Mr. Santos has also served as an expert advisor to the
    Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Census
    Bureau. He currently serves as the elected President of the
    American Statistical Association (ASA), the leading
    professional organization for statisticians in the United
    States.
        Welcome, Mr. Santos. You may proceed with your opening
    remarks.

     TESTIMONY OF ROBERT L. SANTOS\1\ TO BE DIRECTOR, U.S. CENSUS
                  BUREAU, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE

        Mr. Santos. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can you hear me?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Santos appears in the Appendix on
    page 42.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Chairman Peters. Yes.
        Mr. Santos. OK. Thank you very much. I would like to first
    introduce my wife, Adella, and my son, Emilio, who are here in
    support, and I just want to say thank you for this opportunity
    to give an opening statement. Thank you Committee Members, for
    those of you who are here, and I understand if you cannot be. I
    will begin.
        It is an honor and I am humbled to appear before you today
    as the nominee for Director of the Census Bureau. I would like
    to thank the President and Secretary Raimondo for the trust
    they have placed in me with this nomination.
        Born and raised in the barrios of my native San Antonio, I
    was fortunate to be in a Mexican-American family whose parents
    secured civil servant jobs at Kelly Air Force Base. I was
    privileged to be educated by the Irish nuns at Little Flower
    Elementary School, and I was taught to be a responsible adult
    by the Brothers at Holy Cross High School. The values instilled
    in me at these schools are foundational to my leadership.
        I am a member of a Gold Star family. My brother, Rene, died
    in Vietnam in 1969, when I was a high school freshman. His
    death furnished the Section F deferment that I did not seek,
    and a pain that endures to this day. With the sacrifice to our
    country, I was free to attend San Antonio College, Trinity
    University, and then the University of Michigan to follow my
    dual passions of statistics and helping people. Those
    opportunities that I had allowed me to believe that I should
    ``pay it forward,'' and I try to do that every day of my life,
    and if confirmed, it will be time to serve my country.
        I would not be here today without the enduring support of
    my family. At age 18, I married my wife, Adella, and we have
    now been married 48 years. She is my most important source of
    support, counsel, and love. Our two children, Emilio and
    Clarisa, always support me and are constant sources of comfort
    and pride. My two granddaughters, 9-year-old Rene and 3-year-
    old Layla, brighten my heart incessantly. My wife and I take
    great pride in having cared for them the last half of 2020,
    during the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, while
    my daughter finished nursing school in Arkansas and her
    husband, Chris, was deployed overseas with the U.S. Air Force
    (USAF).
        Now I am eager to serve as Census Bureau Director because I
    care deeply about this country and believe I can give back to a
    Nation that has given so much to me. I understand the
    importance of data quality and the Census Bureau's role in
    providing data that nurtures our democracy, informs our people,
    and promotes our great economy. You see, Census Bureau data
    help weave us together to form a more perfect union.
        Although this is political appointment, I am not a
    politician. I am a scientist, executive-level manager, a
    researcher, and long-time supporter of the Census Bureau. In a
    40-year career, I have held leadership positions in academic,
    nonprofit, and commercial research organizations. I have
    conducted research for most Federal agencies across many policy
    areas.
        I have held membership in scientific advisory committees,
    from the Census Bureau, to CDC, to National Academies, and
    others. I am the current President of the American Statistical
    Association, the world's largest association of statisticians.
    I was recently President of the American Association for Public
    Opinion Research (AAPOR). I have had the distinct honor of
    receiving the highest lifetime achievement awards from both
    organizations. I believe this body of work and recognition
    positions me well to lead the Bureau, if confirmed.
        The Census Bureau needs a Director who understands the
    critical role of providing quality data to our country. Society
    is in the midst of a technological renaissance, and the Census
    Bureau should leverage technological advances and innovate to
    create efficiency and effectiveness. If confirmed, I can set
    priorities and direction in this area.
        The Bureau also needs more transparency and independence to
    build public trust as it continues planning of the 2030
    decennial census, and completes delivering the 2020 census
    products. Career staff at Census Bureau need recognition for
    the exceptional scientists that they are. The Director must
    nurture a staff that has endured a tumultuous 2020. Finally,
    the Director should lines of communication with stakeholders
    and with Congress.
        In closing, I am incredibly grateful and humbled by the
    support I have received from the scientific community, my
    colleagues, my friends, and my family. If confirmed, I pledge
    to serve with humility, honor, and integrity.
        Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Mr. Santos.
        Our next nominee is Sheriff Ed Gonzalez, nominated to be
    the Assistant Secretary for Immigration and Customs Enforcement
    at the Department of Homeland Security, more commonly referred
    to as the Director of ICE. Mr. Gonzalez currently serves as the
    Sheriff of Harris County, Texas. It is the largest sheriff's
    office in the State of Texas and the third-largest nationally.
        He began his law enforcement career as a civilian employee
    in the Houston Police Department (HPD), where he later became a
    police officer and rose to the rank of sergeant. He served on
    the Elite Hostage Negotiation Team and was assigned to the
    Homicide Division as an investigator.
        After serving 18 years with the Houston Police Department,
    Sheriff Gonzalez retired in 2009, to serve three terms on the
    Houston City Council. He was elected by his peers in 2010, to
    serve as vice mayor pro tem, helping to manage the workforce of
    the city of Houston.
        As Sheriff of Harris County and as a City Council member,
    Gonzales has spearheaded innovative efforts to expand social
    services in order to reduce arrests, divert crime, and improve
    public safety.
        Welcome, Sheriff Gonzalez. You may proceed with your
    opening remarks.

       TESTIMONY OF ED GONZALES\1\ TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR
        IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
                           HOMELAND SECURITY

        Mr. Gonzalez. Chairman Peters, Ranking Member Portman,
    distinguished Members of the Committee, I am honored to appear
    before you to discuss my nomination to lead U.S. Immigration
    and Customs Enforcement. I want to thank President Biden for
    nominating me, Secretary Mayorkas for his confidence in me, and
    this Committee for considering my nomination.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Sheriff Gonzales appears in the
    Appendix on page 114.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        I also want to express my love and gratitude to my parents,
    both hard-working children of immigrants. My father was a self-
    taught welder. He never finished school or learned how to read
    or write. He made up for it by outworking his competition, and
    he raised me to value education and hard work as the keys to
    achieving the American dream. My mother owned a modest beauty
    salon, where she showed me the power of community, service to
    others, personal responsibility, and strong relationships. My
    parents taught me to love our country not only for the land of
    opportunity that it is today, but also for what it aspires to
    be.
        My wife, Dr. Melissa Gonzalez, is a lifelong educator and
    administrator in academia. Her love and support have been my
    foundation throughout my career, and together we have built a
    family that includes our smart, strong, and talented daughters.
        America has shown the world that it is not only possible to
    survive, but thrive, as a nation that welcomes those seeking a
    new home and a better life through hard, honest work. We have
    proven that people from varied backgrounds cannot just co-
    exist, but rally around common values and a shared dream of
    always doing better.
        With that said, the American dream relies upon the rule of
    law and a functioning legal immigration system. I have been
    proud throughout my career as a law enforcement professional to
    uphold our nation's laws. If confirmed as ICE Director, I will
    be responsible for 20,000 dedicated men and women who work
    every day to guard against threats to our national security,
    public safety, and safeguard the integrity of our borders. This
    includes ICE's critical investigative mission through HSI, as
    well as enforcement and removal operations carried out by ICE
    Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO). Theirs is a difficult
    and often thankless job, but leading such a team would be the
    honor of a lifetime.
        I chose a law enforcement career because I cared deeply
    about the neighborhoods I grew up in--their people, the
    businesses, schools, and houses of worship. When you have such
    a love for your home, your community, and your country, you
    want to give back, and so I chose to protect and serve.
        I first started out as a patrolman in the Houston Police
    Department, working my way up to the roles of homicide
    detective and hostage negotiator over nearly two decades. In
    each of these two roles, I have been privileged to keep our
    community safe from harm.
        In 2009, I took my next step in public service. I ran for
    the Houston City Council and went on to serve three terms
    representing my neighborhood. I also served as Houston's mayor
    pro tem, a role that gave me the opportunity to help manage the
    operations of the country's fourth-largest city. I championed
    proposals to equip our peace officers with the tools, training,
    and resources they needed to keep the community safe, while
    working to improve social services to address the root causes
    of many police calls.
        In 2016, the people of Harris County elected me to serve as
    their Sheriff. The Harris County Sheriff's Office is the
    largest in Texas and the third-largest nationwide, with over
    5,000 employees protecting 4.5 million residents within a
    1,700-square-mile area. In that role, I have been no stranger
    to serious challenges, leading our agency's hurricane rescue
    operations in 2017, and leading our office's efforts to manage
    the COVID-19 pandemic in our community, and in our jail system,
    since 2020.
        As Sheriff, I have partnered with ICE, the Federal Bureau
    of Investigation (FBI), Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA),
    U.S. Marshals Service, U.S. Attorney's Office, and other
    Federal agencies in order to investigate and prosecute crimes
    that spanned multiple jurisdictions and countries.
        If confirmed as ICE Director, I look forward to building on
    these partnerships to make our communities safer, while working
    closely with communities to ensure ICE is able to carry out its
    mission. If confirmed, I look forward to working with this
    Committee, under the direction of Secretary Mayorkas, in
    pursuit of these missions, while upholding the highest
    principles of law enforcement public service. I pledge to keep
    communication open and to respect your oversight and guidance.
        Thank you again for considering my nomination. I look
    forward to your questions.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Mr. Gonzalez.
        Ranking Member Portman, you are recognized for your opening
    remarks.

                OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PORTMAN\1\

        Senator Portman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to
    Mr. Santos and Sheriff Gonzalez for your willingness to serve
    and for your statements today.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Portman appears in the
    Appendix on page 39.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        The Census Bureau, Mr. Santos, as you know, provides a
    critically important service to the Nation, and you talked
    about that in your opening statement. Census data supports
    activities all around the country. Businesses and nonprofits
    use census data for planning. State and local governments use
    census data to make spending decisions. The Federal Government
    distributes more than a trillion dollars a year based on census
    data. So we have got it get it right.
        Then, of course, census data supports the redistricting
    process, which is an essential part of our Nation's democracy,
    and it is especially timely that the Census Bureau be more
    responsive with regard to this responsibility.
        The current delay in providing census data for
    redistricting has negative impacted a number of States in this
    country, and one of them is Ohio, that I represent. We are very
    concerned about that, because we are trying to move forward
    with the redistricting process but we need to have the data.
        I have been assured by the Census Bureau that they have now
    agreed to provide redistricting data to Ohio by August 16th. We
    cannot let that date slip. The Census Bureau must meet that
    deadline.
        Mr. Santos, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this
    as well as your views on the many other challenges facing the
    Census Bureau.
        Sheriff Gonzalez, you and I discussed yesterday the
    Director of ICE position is very important for a critical
    agency and deserves careful consideration by this Committee,
    which has oversight over the Department of Homeland Security.
        It is particularly important today, because by any measure
    we have the worst crisis at our Southern Border that we have
    had in at least two decades. The numbers are overwhelming. In
    May, more than 180,000 migrants were encountered at our
    Southern Border. June looks to be even higher, from the
    preliminary data that we have been able to hear about.
        The number of migrants apprehended at our border has risen
    every single month since President Biden took office, and we
    are told that more than 90 percent of those migrants are
    crossing unlawfully, and dangerously, often, between our Ports
    of Entry (POE).
        Border Patrol agents also estimate, but generally do not
    report monthly, the number of migrants who evaded apprehension.
    I think they refer to those people as those who ``got away.''
    This is a conservative estimate that likely undercounts the
    true numbers.
        But we are now seeing record numbers of those not
    apprehended at the Southern Border, those who ``got away.'' In
    March and April of this year, the Border Patrol estimates
    70,000 migrants evaded apprehension by its agents. We do not
    know who these people are.
        I traveled to the Southern Border earlier this year. I was
    in El Paso, where I have been before, and I watched families
    who were enrolled in the Migrant Protection Protocol (MPP), as
    one example, the MPP program, and these were families who were
    in Mexico pending the adjudication of the asylum claim. Under
    the new administration, they were brought into the United
    States. I saw it. They were released into the country, and an
    ICE officer personally described to me what the parole process
    is like, that I witnessed in real time.
        Instead of giving these individuals a court date and
    saying, ``Your asylum claim is being adjudicated. You need to
    show up at court at this time, at this place,'' what they said
    was, ``We are giving them a piece of paper.'' I saw the piece
    of paper. The piece of paper simply had ICE offices listed on
    the back. I said, ``How do they know which ICE office to go
    to?'' And the answer was, ``We do not know where they are
    going, and we are not suggesting where they go, or certainly
    telling them where they go. They can go wherever they want in
    the United States, and we are just giving them these offices so
    that when they end up where they end up they will hopefully
    have an ICE office near them, that they can go to.''
        I was shocked, because I was told that people were given a
    court date and told to go to the court, but that is not what is
    happening.
        You and I talked about this, but I just think our system is
    broken, and we have to fix it. Otherwise, it will continue be a
    pull factor.
        I was just in Ecuador, which, by the way, sends more
    migrants to our border than Honduras now. I was in Guatemala,
    which, of course, is one of the three countries that has been
    traditionally sending the most women and children,
    unaccompanied kids, in particular--El Salvador, Guatemala, and
    Honduras. I heard the same thing, which is the leaders of this
    country do not want their young people going to the United
    States. They want them to stay there, and build the future of
    that country. They do not like the fact that we have a system
    in place that provides this pull, where if you get to the
    border and claim asylum, you are allowed, in the vast majority
    of cases--some say all, but let us say the vast majority of
    cases--to simply come into the country. If this is the
    protocol, where you say, ``You do not even have to show up for
    a court date, because we are not even giving you one. We are
    not even telling you where to go,'' I just do not understand
    how this system is going to work.
        In 2019, we had a surge, and it was largely unaccompanied
    kids, as you recall, because you were on the border and I know
    you understand this issue very well. But I am told that ICE has
    returned virtually none of those unaccompanied kids, none of
    them. They are all still here.
        It is no wonder that the coyotes can go and exploit that
    situation and charge these families the kind of money that we
    cannot even imagine, because, for them $10,000 is not just
    their whole life savings, its the mortgage on their house. It
    is everything they have. Then, unfortunately, many of these
    young people and families are abused on the way to the border.
    It is a dangerous situation, even short of the desert crossing
    that is often dangerous in and of itself, as you well know. It
    is a system that is not serving anybody well right now.
        I have very deep concerns about it, as you know.
        Anyway, I later check in with ICE to ask them, by the way,
    where the migrants had gone who I had watched go through this
    process, who were told to check in with ICE. And ICE was unable
    to tell me exactly how many migrants had checked in with ICE to
    receive a court date. We have asked for this information
    repeatedly and we have been told it is simply not available. So
    we do not know.
        As we all know, cooperation between our Federal, State, and
    local law enforcement is critically important to keep our
    nation safe. In 2017, Sheriff Gonzalez, you made a decision to
    end the department's voluntary compliance program with ICE.
    This voluntary compliance and the cooperation, known as the
    287(g) Program, has helped remove a lot of dangerous criminals
    from our communities. You have also stated that you still allow
    ICE to work inside the county jail, but you have spoken out
    forcefully against Texas law that mandated cooperation with
    ICE.
        I am concerned, as you know from our conversation, about
    whether it would be appropriate for you to lead an agency that
    you have been so critical. Even if the border crisis ended
    tomorrow, ICE is going to be dealing with the ramifications of
    this border crisis for many years to come. As you have noted to
    me, a lot of people are coming to this country on visa, and
    then overstaying their visas. It is not just about the border.
    It is about ICE's broader responsibilities.
        As I have said many times, we are a nation of immigrants
    and we are proud of that, and we welcome immigrants to this
    country in a legal, proper manner, and we should. We are a
    generous country, and we should be. But we also have to have
    immigration laws that are clear, enforceable, and allow people
    to come here legally, properly, and in a humane way.
        Our Committee looks forward to hearing from both of you,
    and thank you again for your willingness to serve.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Ranking Member Portman.
        There are three questions the Committee asks of every
    nominee. I am going to ask each of you to respond briefly with
    just a yes or no. We will start with Mr. Santos and then Mr.
    Gonzalez.
        First, is there anything you are aware of in your
    background that might present a conflict of interest with the
    duties of the office to which you have been nominated?
        Mr. Santos. No.
        Mr. Gonzalez. No.
        Chairman Peters. Second, do you know of anything personal
    or otherwise that would in any way prevent you from fully and
    honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to
    which you have been nominated?
        Mr. Santos. No.
        Mr. Gonzalez. No.
        Chairman Peters. Last, do you agree, without reservation,
    to comply with any request or summons to appear and testify
    before any duly constituted committee of Congress if you are
    confirmed?
        Mr. Santos. Yes.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes.
        Chairman Peters. Great. Thank you.
        Sheriff Gonzalez, if confirmed, you will lead a workforce
    that has suffered from low morale for several years now. More
    than 20,000 men and women serve throughout ICE, including many
    who face incredibly dangerous situations as they work each and
    every day to keep us all safe.
        Could you briefly discuss your experience involved in
    improving the morale as to a law enforcement leader through
    your extensive career in that capacity, and how you plan to
    engage the ICE workforce, if confirmed?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have experience in
    working with large workforces, first in my role as a City
    Council member and Mayor pro tem, where working alongside the
    mayor we oversaw a workforce of more than 20,000 municipal
    employees in the city of Houston. Now, in my role as Harris
    County Sheriff, I work with 5,000 outstanding men and women
    that operate one of the largest jail systems in the country, as
    well as complex law enforcement operations, including a
    maritime unit, security in and around the port of Houston, as
    well as investigative functions as well.
        I have always tried to approach any role, coming in and
    working closely with the workforce. I think it is important to
    make sure that we are working collaboratively. I am an
    inclusive leader. I believe in two-way communication. At times
    we have been able to engage with our workforce to try to make
    sure that we are making some decisions that are popular with
    them, that may improve their work conditions.
        I care deeply for the team members that work with me. I
    commonly use that phrase, ``team member.'' I would use that
    experience, if confirmed to be ICE director, to come in,
    listen, to try to understand the work, understand what is
    working and where we can make things better. I am a big
    believer in continuous improvement, and the morale of the ICE
    workforce is critical to making sure we successfully accomplish
    its mission.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you. Mr. Santos, the Census Bureau
    and its workforce have faced many challenges, as you are well
    aware, in recent years, but particularly in 2020, including
    planning and executing for significant adjustments to the
    decennial census operations in light of the COVID-19 pandemic,
    but also as a result of attempted political influence in the
    census operations.
        If confirmed, how do you plan to engage with and support
    the Census Bureau's career workforce and ensure that its
    expertise that drives the Bureau's decisionmaking?
        Mr. Santos. Thank you for that question, Senator. I highly
    value the career staff at the Census Bureau. They represent
    some of the best scientists in the country, some of the best
    operations people. I understand the tumult that they underwent
    through operationalizing the 2020 census and respond to that.
    Many of them ended up working 7 days a week, possibly 80 hour
    weekdays. It has been harrowing, and these staff deserve to be
    recognized for the job that they did and rewarded for it.
        I believe that there are things that can be done to
    understand the depth of stress that they have undergone,
    through listening sessions, through other types of things, and
    then proceed to craft, with lessons learned from COVID, a
    better work environment for them.
        There are morale issues. We know that. Morale is a symptom.
    It is not the root cause of a problem. I would like to work
    with the census career staff and the staff themselves to
    understand what are the root causes of job satisfaction and job
    dissatisfaction. What can we do? There is typically the
    standard, oh, we can give bonuses and raises and such, and that
    is very good and that can be leveraged.
        But the benefit of those types of rewards really wears off
    quite quickly. It is more rewarding to provide individuals an
    opportunity to find an additional research path, or given COVID
    and the way that folks have learned how to actually work better
    at home, provide flexibility in terms of work at home, remote
    work, and things of that sort.
        I would have work with senior census career staff to avail
    ourselves of a variety of personnel tools, work with human
    resources (HR) to develop some packages and some approaches
    that, one, understand the root cause of moral issues, and
    second, find ways to support folks for the long term, so that
    they grow in their careers, they are satisfied, and they
    benefit the country, as we want them to.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you. Sheriff Gonzalez, as you know,
    ICE's law enforcement mission is extremely broad. The one
    critical piece of that is dealing with human trafficking. In
    fact, ICE's Homeland Security Investigations, is responsible
    for overseeing a wide effort within DHS to combat human
    trafficking.
        So my question to you is, can you tell us about your
    experience in this area and how you would approach HSI's work
    to combat human trafficking in this country?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes, Chairman. I do have vast experience in
    investigating human trafficking matters, human trafficking
    crimes. First, obviously, as a patrolman and later as an
    investigator, working many of these complex investigations over
    the years, I have direct experience of how these cases, or
    these criminal networks operate, having arrested many
    throughout the years.
        In my role at City Council as Chair of the Public Safety
    and Homeland Security, I worked very closely with then-Mayor
    Annise Parker as we launched her first-ever office dealing with
    human trafficking, and we elected a wonderful leader, Minal
    Patel Davis, that is still in place today, to really help
    formulate a plan for the city of Houston that was very
    holistic, and really considered a lot of the interrelated
    factors. That has been a success, and that office remains
    today.
        Now, as Harris County Sheriff, we are often seen as a hub
    for human trafficking, so we put in place a lot of importance
    on this, making sure that we are working with the non-
    governmental organization (NGO's), that we are working with
    other law enforcement partners, both local, State, and Federal
    as well, making sure that our enforcement action is not focused
    on the survivors but instead on those that seek to take
    advantage of others. And so we work very closely, also
    collaboratively as well. We work on task forces with both the
    local police department, which is HPD, as well as with our
    District Attorney's Office, with what is referred to as Project
    180.
        We work very closely in a number of different angles to be
    able to tackle this issue. We know it is very complex. These
    investigations take a long time. But we work very hard to try
    to dismantle this in our Houston area and region. We also work
    collaboratively, when we do have a major-scale event, for which
    Houston is known, to make sure that we are also raising
    awareness in our communities as well. We have also worked
    closely with hotel operators to make sure that we are educating
    and raising awareness of how many times individuals could be
    manipulated and what are some of the signs to see.
        We have led a very successful effort, and also commend the
    men and women of ICE, HSI, that have had great success in this
    area throughout the years, and I look forward to joining their
    efforts, learning what is being done, and how we can continue
    to advance their work, and use my experience to continue to see
    continuous improvement in the area of human trafficking, that
    is critically important, and we must put a stop to it.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Mr. Gonzalez. The chair
    recognizes Senator Johnson for your questions.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JOHNSON

        Senator Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Gonzalez, it
    is July 15th and we do not even know what the June apprehension
    numbers are from DHS, from U.S. Customs and Border Protection
    (CBP). It is a little disappointing. I believe DHS is utilizing
    Title 42, protecting our country from COVID and returning
    people immediately. But I do not have those numbers either. I
    do not think we have them for April, May, or June. This
    Committee is, to a certain extent, operating in the dark in
    terms of what is exactly happening.
        I think my first question for you--I asked this of
    Secretary Mayorkas; he has not honored his promise--but will
    you commit to this Committee to be transparent and get us this
    information on a timely basis?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Absolutely, Senator Johnson. You, in your
    role here, Congress and in your role here in this Committee,
    provides a very critical oversight. If confirmed, I will make
    sure that we are working in a timely manner, providing you with
    the necessary information. It is important for you to be able
    to----
        Senator Johnson. OK. I will hold you to that commitment.
        Now I think the next point is, I do not believe we have any
    idea where the people that are being processed and dispersed--
    and let's face it, when the Administration says they are fixing
    this problem, all they are doing is they are getting more
    efficient at processing and dispersing people to all points in
    America. I do not think that anybody knows where they are
    going. As Senator Portman was talking about, they get a list of
    ICE offices, because they do not know where they are going.
        I think that is absurd. Do you agree with me, that we have
    no idea where these people are going?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Senator, it is concerning to not have that
    information.
        Senator Johnson. Do you think States and cities ought to be
    told when an airplane-full, or a busload of people who have
    come to this country illegally and are being dispersed by DHS,
    do you think they ought to be told when they are getting a
    batch of these individuals?
        Mr. Gonzalez. I think coordination with local and State
    partners is very important. That is something I have experience
    with, and I think it is important to make sure we are
    communicating information with them, and sharing it.
        Senator Johnson. But we are not sharing that with any State
    and local government, are we?
        Mr. Gonzalez. I am not in the role yet, but----
        Senator Johnson. But when you were sheriff of Houston, did
    DHS tell you that, by the way, a busload is coming up from
    McAllen and we are going to terminate it and drop these people
    off in Houston? Were you ever told that?
        Mr. Gonzalez. No, sir.
        Senator Johnson. How much experience did you have in
    Houston with gang activity?
        Mr. Gonzalez. I have a great deal of experience. I have
    worked on gang murders before that had, obviously, a gang nexus
    as well currently we operate in a number of different avenues
    to combat gang crime in our community.
        Senator Johnson. Which were the prominent gangs in Houston
    that you dealt with?
        Mr. Gonzalez. We have some of the local ones, like Tango
    Blast, it is the Bloods, the Crips, Southwest Cholos, MS-13. We
    have a variety, just like many other jurisdictions.
        Senator Johnson. So under my chairmanship we held a hearing
    on MS-13, and it was chilling, to say the least, the brutality
    of that gang.
        When we are apprehending 6,000 people a day, overwhelming
    CBP, that is opening up corridors for drugs, for gang members,
    for very unsavory individuals to, the ``got-aways.'' There are
    6,000 apprehended, 1,000 known ``got-aways.'' We have no idea
    how many unknown ``got-aways.'' This is way more than a crisis,
    and it is continuing, by the way.
        What percent of the individuals do you believe are going to
    show up at an ICE office, having been dispersed with just the
    address of a few ICE--I mean, do you think a high percentage of
    the 6,000 people a day, if we hand them Title 42, they are
    going to be dispersed, do you think they will show up in an ICE
    office?
        Mr. Gonzalez. If confirmed, I would want to understand what
    criteria CBP is using, what information they are gathering.
    Ultimately, they make those decisions on a notice to appear
    (NTAs), in comparison to notice to report (NTRs). I would want
    to see what criteria and then what information is being
    utilized so we could work effectively, so that we can keep an
    eye on the security of our homeland.
        Senator Johnson. But again, we do not even know where they
    are going. We do not know where they are going. We have not
    given them a notice to appear. We are just giving them some--
    let's face it. Very few, if any, are going to show up. So
    again, 6,000 people a day, no notice to appear, dispersed to
    all point in America, which we do not even know where they are
    going, and we are not providing any notice to State and local
    governments. That is what is happening.
        Let us talk about the unaccompanied children. I just talked
    about gangs earlier. What we do not talk about very often is
    the fact that when we talk about unaccompanied children, I
    certainly think 2-and 3-year-olds, right? We see all the
    pictures. The press always shows the pictures, at least during
    the last administration. But the fact is 70 percent of those
    unaccompanied children are 15, 16, or 17 years old. They are
    not 2 and 3 years old. That is a very small percentage.
        Another fact is that 70 percent of them are male. So having
    experience with gangs, would you not say a 15, 16, 17-year old
    immigrant male would certainly fit the profile of somebody who
    might be in a gang, or be recruited by a gang, or be used by
    the drug traffickers to traffic their drugs. Right? I mean, do
    not you find that, in law enforcement, it is a minor that is
    trafficking the drugs, because they do not get put way for
    dozens and dozens of years because they are a minor? Is not
    that the reality of the situation, with this flood? We are
    letting in people that are potentially gang members. We are
    letting in people that are going to be trafficking drugs, or
    human trafficking. Is not that your experience as Houston's
    sheriff?
        Mr. Gonzalez. I am always mindful of not profiling and
    developing these stereotypes in my work, so I try to look at
    the facts.
        Senator Johnson. That is no profiling.
        Mr. Gonzalez. But I am saying, at the end of the day, they
    are still teenagers. I know that they are coming into our
    country, they are processed through CBP, there are different
    screenings that are done, and at the end of the day they are
    still teens. I think that HSI is the preeminent law enforcement
    agency, when it comes to investigating how criminal networks
    are manipulating the immigration system to take advantage of
    these individuals. I think it is important that we use our
    resources to combat and dismantle those criminal networks.
        Senator Johnson. Mr. Gonzalez, you are engaging in the same
    state of denial, denial of reality, that is happening under
    this Administration, the DHS, and Secretary Mayorkas. If you
    are denying the problem we have no chance of fixing it
    whatsoever. This is a crisis that is not being addressed. It is
    a tragedy for this Nation.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Johnson. The chair
    recognizes Senator Hawley for your questions.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HAWLEY

        Senator Hawley. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Congratulations to both the nominees. Thank you for being here.
    Mr. Gonzalez, I would like to start with you, if I could, and I
    would like to start with a fundamental question that I have
    asked other nominees who appear before this committee.
        Do you believe that unauthorized entry at our borders
    should remain a crime?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes, sir.
        Senator Hawley. Here is another fundamental question.
    Putting aside any resource constraints, whatever they may be,
    do you think that if an alien enters the country illegally they
    should be subject to removal from the United States?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes.
        Senator Hawley. Do you believe that individuals who current
    have an order of removal should, in fact, be removed from the
    United States?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes.
        Senator Hawley. If an illegal alien enters the country and
    is then convicted of a crime, do you believe they ought to be
    subject to removal?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes.
        Senator Hawley. What about illegal aliens who have been
    convicted of things, let us say, assault, homicide, kidnapping,
    sex offenses, sexual assaults, weapons offenses? Do these
    illegal aliens, should they be removed from the United States?
        Mr. Gonzalez. In my opinion, yes.
        Senator Hawley. Good. I am glad to hear all of that. I am
    asking you because according to internal ICE documents that
    were released as part of a litigation ongoing between the
    States of Montana, Arizona, and the United States, the Biden
    administration's new limitations on enforcement could result in
    the release of convicted felons who are already in ICE custody,
    including 3,300 aliens who have committed assault crimes, 4,000
    who have committed drug crimes, and hundreds who have been
    convicted of sex crimes.
        Let me just ask you, if you are confirmed to this position,
    do you plan to facilitate the release of these criminal illegal
    aliens from ICE custody?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Senator, in my view the current guidance that
    is being offered would make those a priority. I think those are
    public safety priorities, and so I would make sure that we are
    working in accordance with that guidance that does permit for
    the removal of those individuals as a public safety threat.
        Senator Hawley. What the documents show, I mean, again,
    according to this lawsuit, documents obtained as part of the
    lawsuit, is that under the current guidance these aliens who
    are currently in ICE custody could well be released. What you
    are telling me here today--I am asking you if you will
    facilitate the release. I think you are saying no to me, but I
    just want to be sure about it. Are you saying no, that you will
    not facilitate the release of aliens who have committed assault
    crimes, drug crimes, sex crimes? Is that a no?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Can you repeat the question?
        Senator Hawley. Yes. Will you facilitate the release of
    aliens who have committed sex crimes, assault crimes, other
    violent crimes?
        Mr. Gonzalez. If the premise of your question is that it is
    under some type of legal action that is taking place, I know
    that part of the guidance included that consideration that
    there is ongoing lawsuits and other things. I would work in
    accordance with the law with what I am allowed to do, and if
    there is a court order that orders me to remove them,
    otherwise, I would go with the guidance that we have, which
    allows me, if confirmed as ICE Director, to be able to remove
    them. I see them as a threat. If it is under my authority, I
    would move to remove them.
        Senator Hawley. So would you make it a priority? Let me ask
    it this way.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes.
        Senator Hawley. Would you make it a priority to remove
    aliens who have been convicted of these crimes?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes. To me those are serious crimes.
        Senator Hawley. OK. Would you agree with me that criminal
    illegal aliens who have, by definition, committed these crimes
    that we have been talking about, if they are released back into
    our communities, at least some of them are likely to be
    recidivists and to commit other crimes. I am sure you have seen
    this in your own experience as sheriff. Would you agree with
    that premise?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes.
        Senator Hawley. Therefore it is important to remove them
    and actually make sure that they are not released to the
    public. Do you agree with that?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes. Public safety is always my north star.
        Senator Hawley. OK. With regard to the Administration's
    recent decision to effectively end deportation of those aliens
    who entered illegally prior to November 1, 2020, is not this
    just a free pass for those who have entered, who arrived here
    over 6 months ago? I mean, I do not understand this. Give me
    your view. This sounds like a free pass to me. Is this not just
    a free pass for anybody who came before November 2020?
        Mr. Gonzalez. The ones that came before, in my
    understanding of the guidance that has been offered, does not
    preclude anyone that is here unlawfully to not be still
    removed. I think that that is still there. I think it is just a
    matter of prioritizing key areas, and I think that it does not
    preclude anyone that is here unlawfully from being removed, in
    my opinion.
        Senator Hawley. OK, good. I think you are telling me that
    you would attempt to enforce the law and remove those who came
    to this country illegally, in violation of our laws, before
    November 1, 2020. Is that correct?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Part of the role of ICE is to conduct
    enforcement operations. I think that those obviously have to be
    prioritized when we are considering limited operations and
    resources. We do that every day. There are a lot of crimes on
    the books, but it is a matter of tradeoffs. It is making sure
    that we are focusing on a strategic approach that goes after
    those individuals that do pose the greatest danger to the
    integrity of our border, public safety, and national security.
        Senator Hawley. But here is my problem with the discussion
    about priorities. Since this Administration has come to office,
    the number of ICE arrests has plunged. It has plunged. The
    Trump administration I think arrested over 6,000 people--6,000
    arrests per month, on average. In the final months of the last
    presidency there were 10,000 a month before the pandemic. This
    is according to the Washington Post, by the way, so these are
    public numbers.
        In this Administration, ICE officers have made about 2,500
    arrests during the Biden presidency. Now that is a dramatic
    drop in difference. It sounds to me like what is being
    prioritized is not the husbanding of resources. What is being
    prioritized is not arresting criminals, and not arresting
    people who are here illegally.
        What I would like to get from you is a commitment that you
    will vigorously enforce our laws that are on the books and will
    make ICE's mission to do so a priority. Can you give me that
    commitment?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes, sir. I am familiar with the article. To
    me, the one data point, in my experience I would like to see
    more data to see what other factors may have played into that,
    to better understand the numbers. It is concerning. I would
    make sure, then again, that if we are being strategic and we
    are prioritizing properly, that we could go after those
    individuals that pose the greatest threat to our communities. I
    think that is reasonable and appropriate. But we would be
    aggressive in going after them.
        Senator Hawley. Let me ask you this. Do you agree with
    ICE's current policy of requiring ICE officers to receive
    preapproval from senior leadership before they make a lawful
    arrest?
        Mr. Gonzalez. I think that under the priorities that are
    listed, they do not require any kind of approvals. I think it
    is laid out that they could still use their own discretion on
    those, and others. It does not preclude them from taking
    action, but they would have to work in concert with the
    regional directors, the field directors, to make sure that it
    falls in accordance with the priorities and that they have
    looked at other criteria.
        Senator Hawley. With due respect, I mean, working in
    coordination with before you take action sounds like
    preapproval to me. Do deputies in the Harris County Sheriff's
    Office need preapproval from you before making lawful arrests?
        Mr. Gonzalez. No, sir.
        Senator Hawley. This is my last question, Mr. Chairman.
    This is just to give you an example here. It is my
    understanding that these restrictions on ICE enforcement
    removal operations, particularly the preapproval requirement,
    is having a significant impact in the field. I have learned
    that in one instance ICE officers requested permission to place
    a detainer on a subject who has been deported four times
    previously, has convictions of evading arrest, escape, domestic
    violence, and multiple driving under the influence (DUIs). This
    detainer request was denied by ICE senior leadership.
        This seems crazy to me. The whole procedure seems crazy to
    me. Does this seem like a reasonable way to proceed to you?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Senator, in my opinion, hearing that it does
    not seem reasonable. If confirmed, I would want to understand
    better about that case and to understand why the local field
    directors made the decision to perhaps not pursue enforcement
    action. I would like to better understand, and I understand
    your concern.
        Senator Hawley. I appreciate that I am over my time. I will
    just say in conclusion, Mr. Chairman, that--I appreciate your
    answers, Sheriff. I think they do put you in a significant
    tension with this Administration's policies. I am personally
    fine with that. I hope that you will go and enforce the law
    vigorously. I do not know what the White House will think of
    your answers, but I am heartened by what I have heard so far. I
    will probably have some additional questions for you for the
    record.
        Thank you for your indulgence, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Senator.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Hawley. The chair
    recognizes Senator Carper for your questions.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER

        Senator Carper. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank Mr.
    Santos for his willingness to serve in the role of Director of
    the U.S. Census Bureau and for the willingness of Sheriff
    Gonzalez to serve as the head of ICE.
        I ask a lot of yes-or-no questions, gentlemen. I will ask
    about three of them of Sheriff Gonzalez today to start this
    off. If you will just basically give me a yes or no answer I
    would appreciate that.
        At the direction of Secretary Mayorkas, ICE is
    prioritizing, I think as you know, folks who pose a threat to
    our public safety for enforcement. Do these priorities take
    away from ICE's ability to arrest anyone who enters the country
    unlawfully? Just yes or no.
        Mr. Gonzalez. No.
        Senator Carper. All right. Second question. Do you believe
    that local jurisdictions should cooperate with ICE when it
    comes to apprehending criminals who pose a threat to our public
    safety or national security? Yes or no.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes, sir.
        Senator Carper. Last, do you believe that ICE should be
    abolished?
        Mr. Gonzalez. No.
        Senator Carper. All right. You are three for three. Let me
    talk a little bit about root causes.
        As my colleagues in this Committee know, I am a big root
    cause guy. I believe that until the United States--the crime
    corruption, lack of economy opportunity drives folks in Central
    America and the Northern Triangle and other places. Unless we
    address those drivers to make the journey north, we are going
    to continue to see migrants arriving legally or illegally, 10
    years from now, 20 years from now, or 30 years from now.
        Sheriff Gonzalez, I am pleased to hear that you are also a
    root cause guy, just like me, and like a number of my
    colleagues I am also pleased to hear that you are a
    collaborator by nature, because the importance of collaboration
    cannot be overstated when it comes to advancing the mission of
    ICE, the agency. And lacking a Senate-confirmed director for 4
    years.
        That being said, if confirmed, how will you work with your
    DHS and law enforcement counterparts in addressing root causes
    relevant to the mission and work of agents at ICE?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate it. As you
    mentioned, I am a collaborator by nature. I have learned to
    expand coordination and collaboration in my roles, both on
    Houston City Council as mayor pro tem, working a diverse group
    of agencies, as well now as the Harris County Sheriff, both on
    the law enforcement side, where we are making sure that we are
    being strategic in our enforcement, that we are protecting our
    region from harm, as well as developing continuums of care when
    it comes to dealing with vulnerable populations that have been
    incarcerated, that are grappling with addiction, mental
    illness, and other things. I have been able to work very
    collaboratively with many to do that.
        I would work closely with the ICE workforce that has that
    experience and those relationships. I would make sure that I am
    working with our sister agencies to make sure that we are
    fulfilling the mission of protecting our homeland and
    maintaining the integrity of our border. I would make sure that
    we continue to work with those relationships. I do it now,
    working with HSI, with the U.S. Marshal's Office, the U.S.
    Attorney's Office, with ICE, with many others. I believe in
    coordination. I think it is important to fulfilling the mission
    of ICE, and I would be very committed to continuing that.
        Senator Carper. Good. Thanks so much. Let me change gears
    and ask a question of Mr. Santos, who has been nominated to be
    Census Director.
        Mr. Santos, I think it was in June 2021, the Government
    Accountability Office (GAO), published a report that found
    planned innovations implemented during the 2020 census helped
    the Census Bureau optimize operations and slow the trend of
    increasingly costly decennial counts.
        At the same time, the report made three recommendations for
    improving the way the Census Bureau tracks and measures the
    benefits and cost-savings attributable to specific innovation
    areas.
        Mr. Santos, can you please take a moment to share how you
    might work with GAO and their current Comptroller General, Gene
    Dodaro, to implement open recommendations and other lessons
    learned from the 2020 census, as the Bureau begins to work for
    the 2030 count? Go right ahead.
        Mr. Santos. Thank you, Senator. I believe it is important
    to work with GAO. I believe they are an ally to the Census
    Bureau, in terms of informing them on cost efficiencies and
    other types of strategies that can be used in terms of creating
    a more effective and efficient census operation.
        I also believe that GAO represents one of a number of
    stakeholders that can and should be consulted in order to get
    their ideas, their innovations that they offer, in order to
    consider for the upcoming 2030 census. I understand, and I
    would feel, if confirmed, that as director there is an
    obligation to carefully consider and respond to GAO suggestions
    on innovation and other types of activities like this.
        I know that the Census Bureau has, as I have said before,
    an incredibly talented staff, career staff, and they have been
    working on innovations. I expect to, if confirmed, work with
    them to understand the direction that they are currently taking
    with regard to innovations, and the GAO response will be part
    of that.
        Senator Carper. OK. Great. Thanks very much for that
    response.
        A question back for Sheriff Gonzalez. This is with respect
    to leadership. I like to say that leadership is the single most
    important ingredient in the success of almost any kind of
    organization on our planet. It is absolutely critical in the
    Federal Government. Sheriff Gonzalez, would you take a moment
    to share with us how your nearly two decades of experience in
    law enforcement has prepared you to take on the role of ICE
    Director after years of vacancies at that agency?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Senator. I am very proud of my
    background. I have worked extremely hard. I am a very hard
    worker. I have a strong work ethic. My heart is in the right
    place. I am effective, proven leader that has been able to
    effectively lead and manage large workforces. I have been able
    to dismantle drug and crime networks. I have personally worked
    complex investigations where I have had to go and tell a mother
    that their son or daughter was killed as a result of gun
    violence. I have led and oversaw our law enforcement response
    in our country to an unprecedented event with regards to
    Hurricane Harvey.
        I have been battle tested. I have been on the ground. I
    know how to lead at a high level and effectively lead a large
    workforce. I have also never forgotten the importance of those
    front-line team members who are out there doing the heavy
    lifting each day. I know how to lead. I know how to be
    effective. I am a good listener. I am good collaborator. I am a
    good steward of taxpayers' resources. I have done it
    effectively leading a large budget of over $570 million in my
    years as sheriff, and helping have a hand with the city's
    budget of nearly $5 billion as well.
        I am a proven and effective leader. I am battle tested. I
    know how to get done. I also understand when it comes to law
    enforcement that we could be firm on crime, we could be firm on
    enforcement, but we do not have to lose our compassion and
    humanity as well. I try to be a leader that approaches things
    from a thoughtful manner that looks for results.
        Senator Carper. Great comments. Thank you for those, and
    thanks again for your willingness to serve. Thank you.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Carper. Ranking Member
    Portman, you are recognized for your questions.
        Senator Portman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks for
    allowing me to defer so some of my colleagues could get their
    questions in.
        Ohio, Mr. Santos, is working on redistricting, as you know.
    Incredibly important. I mean, there are people who are thinking
    of running for office but they do not know what the districts
    look like, because we cannot get the data from the Census
    Bureau. It has been a disaster in Ohio, and I am sure other
    States feel the same.
        We have a commission now, and that commission has a
    deadline of maps being due for the legislative districts, on
    September 1st, and then congressional districts maps, plans are
    due on September 30th. With no other options I supposed Ohio
    Attorney General Yost's lawsuit against the Census Bureau to
    get the data, because without the data we cannot draw the
    lines. Again, people do not know what districts to run in.
    Constituents do not know what district they are going to be in.
        The lawsuit ended up with the Bureau agreeing to provide
    this data by August 16th. Now remember, I said September 1st is
    the deadline, so August 16th is not much time to put together
    the plan, and that date cannot slip.
        Can I ask you today, if you are confirmed, will you commit
    today to ensuring that that deadline is met, that we have no
    further delay in getting the Census Bureau data?
        Mr. Santos. Thank you for that question, Senator. I very
    much sympathize with the concerns of the State of Ohio in
    advancing democracy with redistricting. I understand the
    urgency. I also understand the importance of having accurate
    information in order to make the critical decisions that drive
    our democracy.
        I also understand the timeliness. Timeliness is an element
    of data quality that has only relatively recently been
    recognized as something that is crucial, and that we need to
    take into account when we are developing data products.
        I am with you in terms of wanting to produce data by the
    dates that have been committed to. I have full confidence in
    the Census Bureau, the career staff, the excellent data
    processors----
        Senator Portman. Mr. Santos, let me cut to the chase if I
    could, with apologies for interrupting you. I agree with
    everything you said but I need a commitment. Will you commit to
    meeting the August 16th date? That is what I am asking. Yes or
    no?
        Mr. Santos. I will commit to trying to meet it as much as
    possible. I do not have the information right now to know where
    the Census Bureau is----
        Senator Portman. It is a court-ordered deadline, and if we
    do not have it we cannot do the redistricting. I wish you would
    just commit today to adhering to this deadline. I mean, that is
    the least, I think, that you should be able to do, as a nominee
    for a bureau that has not provided the data needed for us to,
    as you say, be sure our democracy can move forward, by having
    redistricting on a timely basis.
        Mr. Santos. I----
        Senator Portman. I am disappointed you cannot commit to it,
    but I will leave it there, unless you would like to commit to
    it.
        Mr. Santos. What I will----
        Senator Portman. August 16th. That is all I am asking.
        Mr. Santos. I am confident at the Census Bureau will
    produce it by August 16th.
        Senator Portman. But you will not make a commitment to
    getting it done.
        Mr. Santos. I do not have the information to make a
    commitment, and it would be irresponsible----
        Senator Portman. I have just given you the information,
    which is it is court-ordered, and the agreement is to do it on
    that date.
        Mr. Santos. That is absolutely correct and I totally
    understand that.
        Senator Portman. OK. Sheriff Gonzalez, as you know ICE has
    a longstanding principle to establish and maintain these
    partnerships with State and local law enforcement to bolster
    effectiveness in executing the ICE mission and our country's
    mission to ensure we are protected by ICE. One of these
    programs is called the 287(g) Program, which allows trained
    local law enforcement to partner with ICE, to cooperate in
    removing dangerous criminals from the United States.
        As Harris County Sheriff, why did you terminate the 287(g)
    agreement with ICE in 2017?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Ranking Member Portman. For me, I
    made a thoughtful decision. I considered a number of different
    factors. When I first began as County Sheriff I was inheriting
    a budget that was $8 million in arrears, so I had to look at
    the monetary component of how my resources were being utilized.
    I think an effective leader needs to look at their resource
    allocation.
        Too, that this was a voluntary program, so I was working in
    an amicable manner in coordination with the local ICE director,
    to making sure what the impacts of my decision would be. I had
    to consider, obviously, the local realities as well, and the
    importance of local law enforcement also working with a diverse
    immigrant community. I also wanted to make sure that we
    continue to remain focused on having the avenues necessary to
    arrest serious offenders in our community that impact our
    public safety.
        ICE has always maintained a presence, to this date, inside
    our facility. We work in a coordinated manner when it comes to
    that. There have never been any issues. I have never declined a
    detainer.
        Senator Portman. This concerns me on 287(g) Program. Would
    you, if confirmed, want to terminate the 287(g) Program? You do
    not think it works well? You did not want it in your own
    county? Would you want to terminate that program?
        Mr. Gonzalez. For me it was a local decision.
        Senator Portman. My question is would you want to terminate
    the program.
        Mr. Gonzalez. That would not be my intent.
        Senator Portman. You have made comments saying that you
    would like to terminate--you are proud to have terminated the
    agreement with ICE. You wish the Harris County Sheriff's Office
    did not have to cooperate with ICE as mandated by Texas law--
    what you were talking about a minute ago. In response to a
    question about ICE officers being in Harris County Jail you
    said, ``ICE were there when I arrived. I ended the 287(g)
    program that I committed to do. We can get away from that.''
    Then you said, ``I advocated against ICE before. I think it is
    unneeded and I think it is a bad law,'' with regard to the
    Texas law mandating cooperation with ICE. You said if ICE
    determined--if someone had previous history with it, then it is
    ICE's purview. ``I wish it was not like that, but it is.''
        You and I have talked about this, but I am concerned about
    a potential leader of ICE having these views about ICE, and
    what the effect would be on the moral of the individuals. Do
    you stand by those statements today, or do you wish that ICE,
    the organization you are seeking to lead, would receive
    cooperation from local law enforcement?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Ranking Member Portman, thank you for the
    question. I do want to add a little bit of context in regards
    to those comments. That was with regards to a State law, and I
    believe in local control, and that was being mandated by the
    State legislature as a mandate on local law enforcement. I felt
    that as an elected leader in my county I best understand the
    reality on the ground, my area of responsibility, and the
    experience of working with local communities.
        My perspective on that issue was based, or my comments were
    focused on the mandate, that it was being mandated by the State
    legislature on local law enforcement.
        Senator Portman. Sheriff, my time is expiring. I am going
    to leave you with one question. Please, if you would get back
    to me on the record. We do not have time, unfortunately, to get
    into this in detail. But the arrest records, I want to know
    what your view is on that. When the Executive Order (EO) was
    issued on Inauguration Day by President Biden saying no
    deportations for 100 days, no longer an emergency at the
    border, we saw a huge drop in ICE arrests. During the last
    administration, from October to January 2021, we had roughly
    24,000--and I talked to you about this--and then the February
    to May numbers we have are about 10,000. It is about a 58
    percent decrease with the same budget, in ICE arrests.
        If you can comment on that. Are you concerned about that
    dramatic decrease in ICE arrests following the Executive Order,
    coupled with, the worst half-year we have had in 20 years in
    terms of unlawful crossings at the border. I would appreciate a
    response in writing to that, if you do not mind.
        Again, I appreciate your past service, and for both of you,
    thank you for your willingness to step forward.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Ranking Member Portman.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Ranking Member Portman. Senator
    Hassan, you are recognized for your questions.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HASSAN

        Senator Hassan. Thank you so much, Chair Peters and Ranking
    Member Portman. Thank you both for this hearing. And to both of
    our nominees, thank you, and thank your families for your
    willingness to serve. This is a team effort and we appreciate
    you stepping forward very much.
        I have two questions for you, Sheriff, and then one
    question for you, Mr. Santos.
        To Sheriff Gonzalez, U.S. Immigration and Customs
    Enforcement manages three operational components, including
    Homeland Security Investigations. Homeland Security
    Investigations is a critical component of ICE, responsible for
    vetting immigrants as well as investigating transnational
    criminal and terrorist organizations (TCOs), cybercrimes, the
    online and international exploitation of children, human
    trafficking, and transnational drug crimes.
        If confirmed, how will you ensure that the Homeland
    Security Investigations' important missions, including its work
    fighting the substance misuse crisis, continues to be a
    priority?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Senator. All of those issues are
    critically important. If confirmed, I would work very closely
    with the personnel that is in place to understand that threat
    landscape and get updates on where we are at, and then trying
    to see how we could best lead a strategic and targeted response
    to all of these different challenges that you mentioned. HSI is
    the preeminent law enforcement agency when it comes to being
    able to understand how cartels are utilizing the different
    migration paths, for example, and taking advantage of others.
    So want to see how we could dismantle those networks. That
    would be critically important.
        Then making sure that we are working with our partner
    agencies in an effective manner, to make sure that we are
    tackling all of these various issues, including the issues, as
    you mentioned, like fentanyl, which is a concern in Harris
    County for me.
        Senator Hassan. Yes. Thank you so much. The influx of
    fentanyl is a critical issue for the entire country, and we are
    seeing, as you know, a huge increase in overdose deaths, so I
    would look forward to working with you on that as well.
        Sheriff, I am going to follow up with something we talked
    about the other day. New Hampshire is home to a group of
    Indonesian immigrants who have lived in the United States for
    many years. Many came here fleeing from religious persecution.
    Many of them do not have Green Cards, some because they were
    given bad legal advice years ago. They are important members of
    our community at this point, people who have worked jobs, paid
    taxes, raised their families in New Hampshire.
        Under the Obama Administration, as long as these
    individuals checked in with ICE authorities regularly and did
    not commit any crimes they were not a priority for detention or
    removal, and they were provided work permits. However, the
    previous administration attempted to deport many members of the
    community.
        If confirmed, will you commit to looking into this issue
    and working with my office to protect this community?
        Mr. Gonzalez. If confirmed, I look forward to working with
    you, Senator, on that issue. I think it speaks, to some extent,
    about the importance of having a prioritized response--not
    every situation is the same--and that we need some guidance on
    this, and I think that that is where the prioritization and
    other factors that may be available. I would be more than happy
    to work with you on that.
        Senator Hassan. I appreciate that very much and I look
    forward to doing that.
        Mr. Santos. Each Congress the Government Accountability
    Office issues its high-risk list, which identifies and helps
    resolve weaknesses in critical Federal programs that are at
    particular risk for mismanagement or waste of taxpayer dollars.
    One of the critical programs highlight on this year's high-risk
    list is the decennial census, which provides, as we have all
    talked about, critical data to determine congressional
    representation and to inform the Federal Government about how
    best to allocate its resources.
        Despite the conclusion of the 2020 census just months ago,
    GAO already anticipates that the next decennial census will
    face management challenges such as meeting goals and deadlines,
    for testing new data collection technology, recruiting and
    dispatching thousands of census workers, and evaluating the
    accuracy of the collected data in a timely way.
        If confirmed, sir, how will you work to mitigate these
    management challenges?
        Mr. Santos. Thank you for that question, Senator. I will
    work with the Census Bureau staff who has been eagerly and
    earnestly planning the 2030 census. I understand but I have not
    been briefed on the plans of further incorporating technology,
    leveraging the lessons learned from the 2020, which was an
    extraordinary census in almost any sense of the word, because
    of the pandemic. The 2020 census was also the first fully
    digitized operation, there are a lot of quality indicators that
    can give clues about efficiencies that heretofore had not been
    available.
        It is critical to take a look at those, to analyze those,
    and incorporate that, and I can, in my role as Director, if
    confirmed, prioritize those particular areas of research so
    that we can reveal the nuggets of insights that allow us to
    create more effective operations.
        Senator Hassan. Thank you for that, and what I would look
    forward to doing is staying in communication about the
    challenges that have been identified, what you believe you can
    glean from this research and new data, so that we can improve
    management, but also an ongoing conversation with Congress so
    that we are preparing to have as effective and efficient next
    census as is possible.
        Mr. Santos. Thank you. I would very much like to do that.
    Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Hassan. Thank you very much. Mr. Chair, I yield the
    remainder of my time.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Hassan. Senator Scott
    has agreed to temporarily postpone his questions so that
    Senator Rosen can ask her questions, who I know has another
    meeting to get to right away. Senator Rosen, you are
    recognized.

                   OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROSEN

        Senator Rosen. Thank you, Senator Scott. I really
    appreciate that. I owe you one there. Thank you, Chairman
    Peters, Ranking Member Portman. I also want to thank Sheriff
    Gonzalez and Mr. Santos for being here today. I really enjoyed
    speaking with both of you earlier this week.
        I know that Senator Peters brought this up but I want to
    build on this a little bit. Sheriff Gonzalez, of course I
    appreciated the chance to discuss how it has been increasingly
    challenging for ICE to recruit and retain qualified,
    responsible agents over the last few years. I know you agreed
    that it is important to maintain high standards for ICE
    personnel and screen recruits appropriately during the hiring
    process to reduce the chance of corruption and misconduct, of
    course, which have plagued the agency in the past.
        In Nevada last year, we saw a worst-case scenario when
    reporting revealed that a CoreCivic employee at the company's
    Southern Nevada Detention Center was actively--actively--
    participating in a Neo-Nazi website, expressing interest in
    starting a white supremacist group as well. This is absolutely
    unacceptable, particularly for an agency that works
    disproportionately with the underrepresented minority and
    vulnerable undocumented communities.
        So going forward, how will you ensure that ICE properly
    screens for individuals who embrace white supremacy or,
    frankly, other dangerous ideologies, and what are your plans to
    conduct a human capital needs assessment to identify those
    needed improvements in both recruiting and retention?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Senator. I think, obviously,
    maintaining a workforce that has the highest integrity is
    always critical to making sure that we are maintaining public
    trust. This is something that I work with on a regular basis,
    leading a backgrounds and recruiting operation within the
    Harris County Sheriff's Office, as well as my previous work
    when we were trying to attract talent to the city of Houston in
    my role on city government.
        This is something that we are always working. In fact, I
    met recently with my team to see how we could do better with
    our screening protocols, making sure that we are onboarding the
    right leaders into our agency. I know across the board
    nationally that many law enforcement agencies are also
    grappling with this, not only the initial onboarding but
    further check-ins throughout their career to make sure that
    things somehow are not getting, gone sideways in some way or no
    longer fit the mission of the agency when it comes to a team
    member's behavior.
        This is something that I would commit to understanding more
    and working with you to work with you through those concerns,
    if confirmed to be the Director.
        Senator Rosen. I appreciate that, and I want to move on,
    too, to talk a little bit about ICE's contracting practices,
    because last year we all heard about a frankly shocking, in the
    criminal medical procedures performed on women without their
    consent at the Irwin County Detention Center in Georgia, that
    LaSalle Corrections managed. I was relieved to hear earlier
    this year that the Irwin County Detention Center would be
    closing.
        Of course, we have heard similar serious complaint about
    the health and safety of detainees at other facilities owned
    and operated by private companies. If confirmed, what policy
    changes are you considering, or would you consider, regarding
    ICE's contracting practices, particularly with respect to the
    health and safety practices for our detainees?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Senator. If confirmed, the health
    and safety of our facilities is paramount, not only for those
    that are under our care but also for our workforce as well. I
    understand the critical nature of it. I operate one of the
    largest jail systems. It comes with many challenges. I am quite
    attuned to those challenges and working with a team to work
    through those challenges.
        I also understand the complexity of working with a very
    detailed oversight body when it comes to the review and
    inspections of our jail facilities. I understand that under ICE
    they own and operate directly five facilities but there are
    other facilities where there are contracts in place. In total,
    ICE operates with, I believe, four different sets of standards,
    so it is very complex operating and overseeing a system that
    big.
        I would want to understand what oversight and safeguards
    are in place to make sure that there are certain standards that
    are being met. We had experience, or I had experience in this
    early on in times when we have had to outsource temporarily
    into other facilities, private facilities. It is a practice
    that generally I am not in favor of. We are currently not
    outsourcing any inmates in our facility.
        This is something that I would want to make sure, and that
    sometimes my concern with private facilities is understanding
    the oversight of that and making sure we are holding folks
    accountable to maintaining those high standards. This is an
    area of concern. I have heard stories of some of the inhumane
    treatment, and that would not be in alignment with the vision
    that I would have for ICE, if confirmed. I would commit to make
    sure that we are reviewing that very closely, Senator.
        Senator Rosen. Thank you. I want to quickly, in the minute
    I have left, to turn to Mr. Santos and talk a little bit about
    breaking down the language barriers. I mentioned before in this
    Committee I do applaud the Bureau for providing resources and
    materials in 59 non-English languages, but the census
    questionnaire itself was only available in 12 non-English
    languages. It excluded a large number of our South and
    Southeast Asian languages spoken by our Asian Americans Pacific
    Islanders (AAPI) communities, not just in Nevada but all across
    the country.
        My office has also heard that seniors and other
    underrepresented populations had trouble completing the census
    questionnaire due to a lack of broadband access and
    technological literacy, which was really a particular problem
    because we did experience postal delays last year, and, of
    course, there were a lot of fears around that as well.
        Mr. Santos, how are you going to address some of the
    broadband technological issues, the language issues? How do you
    intend to minimize those, if confirmed?
        Mr. Santos. Thank you for that question, Senator. I believe
    that all voices need to be heard when it comes to a decennial
    census, as well as the massive survey programs and data
    collection programs, which are the other part of the Census
    Bureau that folks do not often recognize, because they are
    incredibly important to our economy and understanding our
    people.
        In terms of getting to individuals of different language,
    it is important to tailor designs, to tailor approaches, to
    understand the situations that people are in. Often it is not
    enough to simply translate a form and pass it on. There are
    issues of cultural relevance. What is the reading level of the
    populations that we are going after?
        Ultimately, it demands research so that we can take the
    various populations, in the wonderfully diverse United States
    that we live in, and tailor different approach to different
    individuals to maximize their chance of participation. That
    includes not only translations, it includes outreach, it
    includes talking to stakeholders and getting their buy-in. It
    includes a whole variety, a large toolkit, that need to work
    together in order to create the strategies and practices and
    protocols that I will achieve.
        Senator Rosen. Thank you. I see my time has expired. I just
    want to be mindful of Senator Scott, who was kind enough to
    yield to me. So we will take the rest of the questions and
    answers off the record. I appreciate that.
        Thank you, Senator Scott. We will see you later.
        Senator Padilla [Presiding.] Thank you, Senator Rosen.
    Senator Scott.

                   OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SCOTT

        Senator Scott. Thank you. First off, congratulations both
    of you for your nominations and your willingness to serve. My
    questions are for you, Sheriff.
        Thank you for--I mean, law enforcement is very important,
    as we talked about yesterday. One thing we talked about
    yesterday, could you talk a little bit about the importance of
    enforcement law and complying with the law? We talked a little
    bit about something I have been surprised at, which I think you
    probably will be a little bit. At the Federal level--and I do
    not know if it happens at the county level, but people just
    decide what laws they are going to enforce and what laws they
    are not. Can you give me your thoughts on that?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes, sir. For me, I think it is important to
    respect the rule of law. It has been, obviously, my life's
    work, from all my adult service in law enforcement. It is
    something that to me is very fundamental. I know it is an
    important American ideal as well, just as our immigration
    system is as well, and I think it is one of America's great
    success stories, immigration.
        I think that it is also a paradox sometimes, because we
    also need to make sure we are maintaining the rule of law.
        Senator Scott. So you have probably talked a lot about the
    border today. When I think about the border I think about that
    little 14-year-old Nicaraguan boy that was left in the desert,
    and, he was asking for help. He was just left, I guess, to die.
    And you saw the two little Ecuadorian girls, 3 and 5 years old,
    they just dropped over the wall. You have kids and grandkids
    and your heart goes out to these people.
        So in your position as running ICE, is there anything that
    you will be able to do to try to make sure those things do not
    happen, because it is disgusting for these little kids. I mean,
    your heart goes out to them.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes. Thank you, Senator. You are right. I
    think that it is important, in my opinion, to always lead in a
    humane and compassionate way. That is something that for me
    would be very important, that we look at the systems that ICE
    operates, whether it be enforcement or whatever interactions we
    may have, to operate again within the rule of law but also make
    sure that we are being respectful that there is an asylum
    system. To the extent where ICE can help deal with some of the
    backlogs as well I think would be very important. To the extent
    where I could help bring some of my perspective of working with
    local diverse communities, my Houston region is one of the most
    diverse in the country, making sure that we are implementing
    some semblance of looking at circumstances and being open to,
    like you said, the hardships that sometimes come with these
    situations as well.
        Senator Scott. There are all these stories that ICE
    employees are not allowed to enforce the law. Do you believe
    that is true, and what do you think about that?
        Mr. Gonzalez. I do not believe it is true. I would want to
    understand, if confirmed, how they are interpreting guidance. I
    think there is a lot of latitude at the field office, which I
    think is smart. I think that many of those decisions should be
    under the area of responsibility of local officials that better
    understand the threat landscape in the community that have
    those partnerships. I would want to understand, again, in my
    reviewing of the guidance that has been offered, I think that
    there is ample latitude for us to be effective and get the job
    done. It does not preclude anyone from being, obviously, the
    focus of enforcement if it meets the priority areas.
        Senator Scott. In all the different jobs you have had, have
    you ever had a situation where somebody you worked for told you
    not to enforce the law?
        Mr. Gonzalez. In my experience I have not.
        Senator Scott. How would you handle that, if somebody said,
    ``Look, we know what the law is. We really do not like that, so
    we want you, in this new job, not to enforce it.'' How would
    you handle that?
        Mr. Gonzalez. I understand that it is concerning. I know
    that in the past there have been priorities that have been
    given to ICE, in the past, in previous ICE administrations as
    well. My understanding is at the time they were not universally
    popular. I think it is important to understand, within the
    confines of our work, limited resources, making sure that we
    are being effective in our enforcement.
        I would want to also understand the quality of arrests,
    make sure, though, that we are listening to the ICE workforce.
    It is my understanding that is what Secretary Mayorkas is doing
    now, is engaging with the ICE workforce and other sister
    agencies to make sure that he is getting a full understanding
    of concerns and other things, and I hope that that informs his
    thoughts on this matter.
        Senator Scott. So your background is law enforcement. How
    important is it for local law enforcement to work with ICE, and
    do you believe you are going to be able to create a
    relationship where law enforcement will want to work with ICE,
    going forward?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Absolutely. Yes, sir. I do see many
    possibilities. I think we could move forward in a positive
    direction. I have talked to many counterparts across the
    Nation. I think it is important to understand some of the
    successes and also where we could do better. If confirmed, I
    would want to see how we could be a better partner to fulfill
    the mission, and I believe in working in coordination. I do not
    think one agency can work alone. We have to depend on others. I
    think that is important that there always be a good
    coordination, especially with local law enforcement, for
    deconflicting purposes and other reasons as well, to maintain
    our public safety.
        Senator Scott. So assuming you get confirmed and you are
    there for 2 years, what would you define as success?
        Mr. Gonzalez. For me, if confirmed, I would welcome the
    opportunity and consider it an opportunity of a lifetime to be
    able to work with the men and women of ICE. I would like to see
    where we have become a strategic agency, a preeminent law
    enforcement agency that works effectively, that is prioritized,
    because I think that it is a reality of managing.
        I would want to make sure that we are looking at more
    expansive data sets. I have heard some data that is often
    given. But I would like to make sure that we are leading an
    effective agency that is an enforcement agency, that both
    respects the rule of law, that protects--my north star is
    always public safety. Did we keep our community safe when it
    comes to these issues? But too, did we create an agency that
    also engages with the community? Are we engaging with the
    community better?
        I think that the work of ICE can be hard to understand, and
    it is important for us to be engaging with the community. Those
    would be successes for me.
        Senator Scott. Thank you, Sheriff.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Senator.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PADILLA

        Senator Padilla. Thank you. It is my opportunity now to ask
    some questions before calling up on the next Senator. My first
    is for Sheriff Gonzalez. Good morning.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Good morning.
        Senator Padilla. Under the Trump administration there were
    reports of ICE agents falsely claiming to be police and
    concealing their true identities to persuade community members
    to open their doors and allow agents into their homes without
    judicial warrants. This was found to be a violation of the
    Fourth Amendment in a class action lawsuit brought last spring
    in California.
        In addition, ICE has used unmarked vehicles to pull over
    people in areas heavily used by farm workers, for example, to
    increase the number of community arrests, even though they are
    not authorized to stop people in this manner.
        So Sheriff, as someone who has worked in local law
    enforcement, it is a great perspective to bring here. Do you
    believe ICE officers impersonating local police officers helps
    or harms public safety? As a follow-up question to that, what
    steps would you take, if confirmed, to ensure that ICE officers
    would not engage in such practices in the future?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Senator. First I would want, if
    confirmed, I would come in to understand what the current
    protocols are. Obviously, I believe you said there was some
    maybe legal action that was taken on this matter, so obviously,
    we would want to make sure we are working in accordance with
    the law.
        At the same time, I understand, from my experience, that
    sometimes we may have to take certain action, depending on the
    individuals that we are having to take action on, where it may
    merit a different, higher threshold in our response. But with
    that said, I think it always needs to be in the context of
    proportionality, to make sure that we are not unnecessarily
    scaring communities, with the presence, and that there are not
    other mitigating factors that we have to consider.
        It is important that ICE does not work in a manner that in
    any way intentionally just seeks to terrorize communities or
    anything of the sort. I think it is important for us to be a
    professional agency, that can take care, if it is done
    effectively. I want to make sure that the men and women of ICE
    that have to carry out these actions are safe, that the
    community is safe, and that we could do it in a lawful, orderly
    way as much as possible.
        Senator Padilla. I appreciate that, particularly as a
    follow-up to some of Senator Scott's questioning about the
    ability or ICE agents to enforce to law. Of course, but that is
    pretty broad. Again, as you can appreciate, the important
    perspective of local law enforcement has their specific role to
    play. Federal law enforcement, that is there to enforce Federal
    laws, has a different role to play. In unique circumstances,
    there is some collaboration that may be justifiable or in
    order. But by and large, it is a very unique mission. When
    Federal agents are, intentionally or otherwise, misrepresenting
    themselves as local law enforcement, I think that does
    undermine more broader efforts by local law enforcement to
    build trust and rapport with community members and community
    leaders. So that is something that, if confirmed, I look
    forward to working with you to address.
        My next questions are for Mr. Santos. Much of the attention
    on the Census Bureau's work is on the decennial census,
    especially this last year, given all the challenges to the 2020
    decennial census. What is less known is that the Census Bureau
    also conducts a number of other surveys, in between the
    decennial census, including the American Community Survey
    (ACS), That relies on sampling and data modeling in the years
    between the decennial censuses.
        The ACS does ask more detailed questions, more questions
    and more detailed questions, and new data is released every
    year on the changing demographics of the United States,
    including information about housing, income levels, marital
    status, educational attainment levels, and so much more. This
    information, coupled with the decennial census, is especially
    important for local communities and government when crafting
    policy, making investments, allocating resources and services.
        Mr. Santos, how can we ensure that the sampling is robust
    enough so that it accurately represents especially smaller
    population areas in the United States where there may be a
    higher need for investments in education, infrastructure,
    social safety programs, et cetera?
        Mr. Santos. Thank you very much for that question. The
    American Community Survey is a national treasure, because it
    really does allow us to understand who we are as a nation in
    our rich diversity and our situation. What basically, I guess,
    not too many people know this, but the American Community
    Survey used to be part of the decennial census, but a
    subsample, so it was captured once a year. My moving it over to
    a continuous survey, not only do we get through sampling the
    rich information that we were accustomed to under the decennial
    census model but we get a much more contemporaneously, we can
    track over time.
        As part of the statistical sample design of the American
    Community Survey, there are oversamples, there are deliberate
    overrepresentation of rural areas, of small town, et cetera,
    that are sprinkled throughout the decade, so that we can
    capture that information accurately and reflect it for the
    benefit of the public.
        Senator Padilla. Great. One other question. Over the past
    few years there has been significant debate about how the race
    and ethnicity question is phrased on the census. Many experts
    claim that those of Hispanic origin are not accurately being
    counted due to their mixed race status. The census currently
    asks if an individual is of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish
    origin. It then asks for the individual's race, which can be
    confusing to many Hispanics, who are often from mixed race and
    ethnic backgrounds.
        In 2015, the Census Bureau did its own test, using a
    combined race and ethnicity question. It found that more
    individuals identified as Hispanic. However, in order for this
    question to be put on the census, the Office of Management and
    Budget (OMB) would have to change their standard categories.
        Mr. Santos, you have written about this topic and discussed
    the need for data collection methods to evolve and adapt to
    ensure that everyone is fairly represented. Can you briefly--I
    know our time is up, but can you briefly tell us how you will
    work with OMB to try to establish a combined race and ethnic
    question for the 2030 census?
        Mr. Santos. Yes. I can fully commit to working with OMB on
    this, to the extent that it is possible to use a single race-
    ethnicity question. I would be in favor of that. The Census
    Director does not have the authority to include any specific
    questions. It has to abide by OMB. But I can use my own
    personal perspective, as a Latino, and use my research
    experience and my leadership position to work with OMB to make
    sure that the proper attention is given to that specific issue
    so that we can see whether or not we can incorporate it into
    the next decennial, or even the American Community Survey.
        Senator Padilla. Thank you. Senator Lankford.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD

        Senator Lankford. Thank you, Senator Padilla.
        Mr. Santos, let me ask you a quick question. I have talked
    for several years to the census leadership and they have said
    every year how hard it is to be able to connect with every
    American once every 10 years. I have reminded them there is an
    agency in the Federal Government that connects with almost
    every American every single year, and it is the Internal
    Revenue Service (IRS). The IRS gathers information in April
    every single year. The Census Bureau gathers information about
    Americans in April every 10 years.
        Can you help me understand why the two of them cannot work
    together once every 10 years, that on a tax form, that as you
    are submitting your tax information on that every-year time
    period, that the census information could not also be included,
    so when you turn in your taxes you also complete your census
    information?
        Mr. Santos. Thank you so much for that question, Senator,
    and I congratulate you on your long-term continuing efforts to
    create efficiencies, or to find efficiencies like this that we
    could----
        Senator Lankford. It is about an $8 billion difference, the
    best we can determine.
        Mr. Santos. Yes, absolutely, and I understand that. The
    good news is that the Census Bureau does cooperate with the IRS
    and even the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) on the conduct of the
    2020 census, and has leveraged information and resources from
    both of those.
        As far as your particular idea, I think it is worthy of
    consideration, and if confirmed, I can discuss with the Census
    Bureau----
        Senator Lankford. Right. Let us sit and visit on that, as a
    follow-up on it. Obviously, I know we are getting information
    to be able to clarify some addresses and other information and
    to fill information in. I am talking about completing your form
    so that we are not having to chase as many people down at this
    point, and to be able to make it simpler for the American
    people that they do not have two separate sets of information
    they need to complete, both from the Federal Government, both
    in April. It just makes sense to be able to put those two
    together. So let us definitely follow up.
        There are some legislative issues I am sure we will have to
    be able to clarify. Let us work on those together. If we do not
    plan for it now, we will have another $8 billion inefficiency
    10 years from now, that we can and should avoid on that. So
    thank you. I look forward to getting a chance to follow up on
    this.
        Sheriff Gonzalez, good to be able to see you again. Thanks
    for getting a chance to come by the office so we can get a
    chance to be able to visit. I know you have had multiple
    questions on this in the past. We also understand you are not
    currently at ICE, and we understand that. There are some
    policies that are currently happening at ICE that you are not
    responsible for, but you are walking into a situation. So let
    me ask a couple of questions.
        Have you visited with the National ICE Council, any of the
    leadership there, or will you commit to getting a chance to be
    able to sit and hear from them so you will get feedback from
    the field of what is occurring?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Senator, I have not met with them. If I would
    look forward to working with them.
        Senator Lankford. Great. Obviously they can give you some
    face-to-face stories of what is actually happening in the field
    right now that I think would be very helpful.
        I am going to give you a situation and then tell you where
    our frustration is coming from. This is a story that came out.
    A person was arrested for sexual battery against a child. ICE
    officers requested permission of management to make an arrest
    but management denied the officers' request, even though this
    was sexual battery against a child.
        Second story. This was a person that had been deported two
    times previously. The person had a pending local charge for
    distribution of heroin, two counts of aggravated assault,
    endangerment of a child, endangerment of an elder adult,
    failure to stop at a command of police. The person appeared at
    a designated location with a quarter pound of heroin and
    attempted to sell to an undercover police officer, realized
    what was happening. He attempted to ram the police vehicle with
    his car and almost hit the undercover officer that he knew was
    an officer. That person had a woman and a baby in the back seat
    of their car during the heroin sale.
        ICE declined to lodge the detainer on that individual. As I
    have mentioned to you before, the current policy is they cannot
    make an arrest without reaching out to regional leadership.
    This was one of those situations where they requested to
    regional leadership and were denied the ability to make those
    arrests, in both of those--sexual battery against a child,
    assault on a police officer, and distribution of heroin.
        What do you think about those? I know you have not seen the
    full case on those, but those do not look hard and complicated
    to me why we should not put a detainer there or start the
    process.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Senator, for me those fact patterns are
    concerning. To me, I can identify several serious public safety
    concerns. If confirmed, I would want to have more information
    on those particular cases and then also understand, from the
    local field directors, regional directors, on why those
    decisions were made not to pursue enforcement action. It seems
    to me that on those fact patterns that it would have been
    appropriate. I have not seen anything in the guidance that
    would preclude that from happening, but again, I would want to
    understand more specifics about what happened and why.
        Senator Lankford. Thank you for that. I would hope for
    that.
        In the past, ICE, when they have gone to be able to make an
    arrest of an individual, they were aware. It was a criminal
    alien who met the criteria there. When they arrived, if they
    happened to be with three other people, two other people, one
    other person that was not legally present in the United States,
    those individuals were also detained as well. Should that be
    continued as a policy or should it only be, literally, if you
    encounter four people that are in this place that are not
    legally present, you only actually detain the one person and
    the others you just ignore?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Senator, for me, again, I think it is a
    matter of prioritization. I think that with any agency that has
    limited resources, manpower, and other considerations, I think
    that it is appropriate to have priorities. I think we could
    always assess if those are effective. It does not preclude any
    of the others from still being potentially up for enforcement
    removal.
        But again, I think that I would trust that our personnel on
    the field could make those judgment decisions, look at the
    totality of circumstances, and see if it is a good use of
    resources, because it is a matter of tradeoff. If we are
    pursuing multiple individuals in the scenario that you gave,
    then there are others that perhaps we are not focusing on. I
    think that we should be strategic and smart in our enforcement.
        Senator Lankford. I understand. Last May, because we have
    not been able to get from ICE the statistics for June, we had
    6,000 ICE agents in the field and they did 3,000 deportations,
    in a month. It is a record low for them. So clearly they are
    not overworked at this point. In fact, the ICE agents that we
    interact with are pretty frustrated, saying that they are the
    ones being handcuffed currently, not able to actually do law
    enforcement, or they are being told by regional leadership,
    ``No, that does not meet the standard. You need to stand
    down.'' Even though you know this person has multiple DUIs,
    sexual battery of a child, assault on a police officer,
    whatever it may be, they are requesting to be able to go and
    actually interdict, and they are being told no, they cannot do
    that.
        So the challenge is, obviously that sends a signal to
    people that are here that are not legally present that ICE is
    really not going to enforce the law. As you mentioned earlier
    in your testimony, if someone is not legally present here, they
    are not legally present here. This has been part of the
    challenge, to be able to say who do we actually engage?
        I am not asking to go pursue and to go door-to-door through
    neighborhoods. I am saying if an individual is found to not be
    legally present, they are a criminal alien that we are in
    pursuit of, and actually go interdict, they are also with
    another person that is clearly not legally present, do we
    ignore one and not pick up the other one, or then pick up the
    other one?
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes. Again, Senator, I think that is
    important for us to be strategic and be thoughtful in our
    enforcement. I think it is important. I think at the end of the
    day just making arbitrary decisions like that, that everyone
    that is often referred to as collateral, poses a serious
    threat. I think we run the risk sometimes of perhaps taking
    someone that may be a business owner--and I am not saying that
    that precludes that they are hands off. But what I am saying, I
    think it is a matter of looking at the totality of
    circumstances.
        I just believe that a prioritized approach is reasonable.
        Senator Lankford. Sure. I understand a prioritized
    approach. I am not talking about, again, going and doing
    massive sweeps. I am trying to figure out where this is going.
    Because if, again, we know someone is not following the law and
    we ignore it, then we have a law that we are not applying at
    all, and obviously you know what that does. That leads to more
    criminal activity as you go, and trying to be able to figure
    out how to be able to interdict that in the future.
        OK, we will continue to be able to do follow-up. Thank you,
    Sheriff.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Senator.
        Chairman Peters [Presiding.] Thank you, Senator Lankford.
        Mr. Santos, Mr. Gonzalez, again I would like to
    congratulate you on your nomination for these incredibly
    important positions, and also to thank you for your willingness
    to take on these roles. These are both challenging roles, and
    we expect the men and women who serve in this capacity to do
    work for the entire country, so we appreciate your willingness
    to do that.
        For the record, both nominees have made financial
    disclosure\1\ and provided responses to biographical and
    prehearing questions submitted by this committee.\2\ Without
    objection, this information will be made part of the hearing
    record, with the exception of the financial data, which is on
    file and available for public inspection in the Committee
    offices.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The information on Mr. Santos appear in the Appendix on page
    44.
        \2\ The information on Mr. Gonzalez appear in the Appendix on page
    116.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        The hearing record will remain open until 12 p.m. tomorrow,
    July 16th, for the submission of statements and questions for
    the record. With that this hearing is now adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 12:09 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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