[Senate Hearing 117-131]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 117-131

                      FRAUDS, SCAMS AND COVID-19:
                  HOW CON ARTISTS HAVE TARGETED OLDER
                     AMERICANS DURING THE PANDEMIC

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS


                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             WASHINGTON, DC

                               __________

                           SEPTEMBER 23, 2021

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-08

         Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging
         
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]         


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                               __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
46-487 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022                     
          
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                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

              ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania, Chairman

KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine
ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      RICHARD BURR, North Carolina
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  MARCO RUBIO, Florida
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             RICK SCOTT, Florida
                                     MIKE LEE, Utah
                              ----------                              
                 Stacy Sanders, Majority Staff Director
                 Neri Martinez, Minority Staff Director
                         
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

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                                                                   Page

Opening Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman......     1
Opening Statement of Senator Tim Scott, Ranking Member...........     3

                           PANEL OF WITNESSES

Lois Greisman, Associate Director, Bureau of Consumer Protection, 
  Federal Trade Commission, Washington, D.C......................     5
Odette Williamson, Staff Attorney, National Consumer Law Center, 
  Boston, Massachusetts..........................................     7
Kate Kleinert, Scan Survivor, Glenolden, Pennsylvania............     8
Vee Daniel, President and CEO, Better Business Bureau Serving 
  Upstate South Carolina, Greenville, South Carolina.............    10

                   CLOSING STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD

Closing Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman......    24
Closing Statement of Senator Tim Scott, Ranking Member...........    24

                                APPENDIX
                      Prepared Witness Statements

Lois Greisman, Associate Director, Bureau of Consumer Protection, 
  Federal Trade Commission, Washington, D.C......................    31
Odette Williamson, Staff Attorney, National Consumer Law Center, 
  Boston, Massachusetts..........................................    48
Kate Kleinert, Scan Survivor, Glenolden, Pennsylvania............    60
Vee Daniel, President and CEO, Better Business Bureau Serving 
  Upstate South Carolina, Greenville, South Carolina.............    64

                 Questions and Responses for the Record

Lois Greisman, Associate Director, Bureau of Consumer Protection, 
  Federal Trade Commission, Washington, D.C......................    69
Odette Williamson, Staff Attorney, National Consumer Law Center, 
  Boston, Massachusetts..........................................    85
Kate Kleinert, Scan Survivor, Glenolden, Pennsylvania............    91

                  Additional Statements for the Record

AARP Government Affairs, Bill Sweeney, Senior Vice President.....    95
AARP Government Affairs, Stop Senior Scams Act Letter of Support, 
  Bill Sweeney, Senior Vice President............................    97
ASOP Global, John B. Hertig, Board President.....................    98

 
                      FRAUDS, SCAMS AND COVID-19:
                  HOW CON ARTISTS HAVE TARGETED OLDER
                     AMERICANS DURING THE PANDEMIC

                              ----------                              


                      THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                                Special Committee on Aging,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m., via 
Webex, Hon. Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman of the Committee, 
presiding.
    Present: Senators Casey, Gillibrand, Blumenthal, Rosen, 
Kelly, Warnock, Tim Scott, Collins, Braun, and Rick Scott.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                 ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., CHAIRMAN

    Chairman Casey. Good morning, everyone. The Senate Special 
Committee on Aging will come to order. Today, the Committee 
convenes a hearing to learn about how COVID-19 left older 
Americans more vulnerable to frauds and scams.
    In the early days of the pandemic, many seniors isolated 
themselves in an effort to avoid contracting the virus but in 
the process were cutoff from family and friends. Fraudsters saw 
an opportunity, and they pounced. They preyed on the fear and 
the uncertainty surrounding the disease as well as the 
loneliness and isolation that resulted from the pandemic. 
People were longing for human contact, and a friendly voice on 
the phone or a beckoning message on Facebook, that became 
harder to turn away from, all of that. At the same time, 
without regular contact with friends and family, it was easier 
for small scams to balloon into big scams.
    Still today, 18 months into the pandemic, Federal agencies, 
State governments, and advocates warn of con artists who will 
do all of the following: Number one, pedal fake cures for the 
Coronavirus, Number two, charge outrageous prices for 
protective equipment, and third, seek to steal stimulus checks 
and unemployment benefits. These types of scenarios, which are 
exacerbated by the pandemic, are not hypothetical.
    Today, the Committee will hear testimony from Kate 
Kleinert. Kate is a resident of Glenolden, Pennsylvania, in 
Delaware County, southeastern Pennsylvania. Last year, Kate 
survived a scam in which a con artist defrauded her of tens of 
thousands of dollars.
    I want to thank Kate for being with us today. I will 
introduce her later, more formally. Also, I want to say to Kate 
and to so many others who come here to Congress to testify 
about something that has happened to them personally, that is 
an act of courage and sharing her story will help others.
    The Federal Trade Commission's data shows that Kate was not 
alone in the experience that she endured. A theme we will hear 
from Kate and our other witnesses today is the importance of 
education in stopping frauds and scams before they start.
    Stories like Kate's are why I reintroduced the bipartisan 
Stop Senior Scams Act with Senator Moran, Senate Bill 337. I 
want to thank Ranking Member Scott for cosponsoring the bill 
and others who are working with us. This bill will create an 
advisory committee to ensure that banks and other businesses 
have the information and tools they need to train their 
employees to spot, and to speak up about, possible senior 
scams.
    I was also pleased that the American Rescue Plan that was 
passed by Democrats in March of this year included funding for 
the Elder Justice Act to support programs to combat elder 
abuse, enhance adult protective services, and more. This is one 
of the many programs that serve as frontline defenses against 
elder financial exploitation and abuse.
    In addition, the Aging Committee's annual Fraud Book, here 
is the book I am referring to. This is this year's edition. 
This provides tips on how older Americans can avoid being 
scammed. This Fraud Book also provides lists of consumer watch 
dogs and law enforcement agencies that can help people who 
believe they or someone they love may have been scammed. 
Starting today, this 2021 Fraud Book--the Committee's 2021, I 
should say, Fraud Book, will be available for download on the 
Aging Committee's website, at www.Aging.Senate.gov.
    In 2013, the Aging Committee started its toll-free Fraud 
Hotline with the goal of making it easier for seniors to report 
fraud and to seek assistance. Since that time, since 2013, the 
Committee has received thousands of calls, and the hope is that 
the hotline provides the caller with helpful advice, but it 
also helps the Committee keep a pulse on the types of threats 
that older Americans are facing. For people listening at home, 
the Fraud Hotline toll-free number is 1-855-303-9470. I will 
say that again, 1-855-303-9470.
    This hotline would not be possible without the efforts of 
frontline staff receiving these calls and providing advice, 
which is hard and often heartbreaking work. To that end, I 
would like to thank Jose and Jasmine on my staff for their 
efforts to keep the Fraud Hotline up and running.
    This the first time that Ranking Member Scott and I have 
released the Fraud Book together, and I think I can say on his 
behalf that we are proud to do that and proud to join those who 
have worked on this on the Committee for many years.
    One final point, today's hearing will include Senators 
participating both virtually and in person, and I guess it is 
the second time we have done that. We also have votes coming 
up. We are hoping to get through at least opening statements by 
witnesses after Ranking Member Scott's statement, and then we 
will see where we are with voting and determine whether we 
should take a brief recess so we can vote and then come back 
and continue the hearing.
    I want to thank our witnesses and others who made this 
hearing possible, and with that, I will yield and turn to our 
Ranking Member, Senator Tim Scott.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                   TIM SCOTT, RANKING MEMBER

    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for 
holding such an important hearing. There is no doubt about it 
that during a pandemic the last thing you want to hear about 
are frauds and scams, especially fraudsters, scammers who focus 
on our senior population in their golden years. It is just 
disgusting and heartbreaking to hear so many stories from so 
many seniors who have had to deal with the challenges of fraud.
    I thank you for your bipartisan leadership. Often people 
look around our country and wonder if anything works in 
Washington in a bipartisan fashion. I would say that with your 
leadership we are not working in a bipartisan fashion; we are 
just working in an American fashion. We are putting the 
priorities of Americans before anything else.
    When it comes to our seniors, I think it is really 
important for us to continue to focus on ways to make sure that 
our seniors appreciate the fact that the leadership here are 
servant leaders, focusing on how we make sure that the 
fraudsters and the scammers that are taking advantage of too 
many of our seniors, that stops and that there are ways for us 
to deal with those challenges.
    I do appreciate the fact that we have a Fraud Hotline that 
I think everyone should hear once again. It is 855-303-9470. I 
say that because so many times, and there are so many 
situations and scenarios, where our seniors face scams. The 
older you get, the more isolated sometimes too many of our 
seniors become and the more they face the challenges of 
scammers.
    There are a couple of ones that I want to point out. One is 
the romance scam. Just deplorable, frankly, from my 
perspective. I know that so many people in their golden years 
lose a loved one or become widows or widowers, and they are 
faced with something called the romance scam. In 2020, romance 
scams reached $304 million in losses, a 50 percent increase 
from 2019. What is in common is the fact that in the middle of 
the pandemic seniors were isolated and lonely and maybe more 
susceptible to this type of fraud and this type of scam.
    Congress can do its part to help, and I thank again 
Chairman Casey for the bill, the Stop the Senior Scams Act. It 
creates an advisory group to educate industry employees on how 
to identify and prevent scams targeting our seniors.
    Forced isolation because of COVID makes our seniors so much 
more vulnerable. I think of one in particular in South 
Carolina. The romance fraud claimed 250 victims, who suffered 
losses in excess of $4 million in 2020. A lovely lady, Judy, 66 
years old, in South Carolina, a widow, began a relationship 
with a man over social media. He slowly gained her trust and 
then swindled her out of her resources. Ten thousand dollars, a 
senior on a fixed income lost to this scam.
    Today, we are releasing, as the Chairman noted, the 2021 
Fraud Book. This is such an important guide that could help our 
seniors avoid such challenging situations.
    In 2020, the FBI Internet Crime Complaint Center received 
over 791,000 complaints; 28 percent of the victims were over 
the age of 60. This resulted in approximately $1 billion in 
losses to our seniors.
    A constituent of mine from Columbia, South Carolina, shared 
that she received a phone call from someone pretending to be 
her grandson. She did what most grandmothers would do. She 
called her grandson back and tried to verify that it was him. 
This car accident that supposedly he was in, that required an 
immediate wire of money, $5,012. She wired the criminal 
scammers when she could not get in touch with her grandson. 
Unfortunately, these types of fraud, are very common. In 2020, 
the grandparent scam was the fifth most reported type to our 
Committee's Fraud Hotline.
    Education and greater awareness are the best ways to make 
seniors informed consumers. That is why I am proud of what we 
have in South Carolina called Project Hope, helping our 
precious and elderly. Based in Richland County, South Carolina, 
Project Hope partners retired law enforcement volunteers with 
our seniors. They check in on a weekly basis, and they make 
sure that they are very aware of the potential scammers out 
there and making sure that they create a firewall between the 
scammers and our seniors. I am so thankful that there are 
dedicated men and women of our law enforcement community, the 
men and women of blue, who retire and still have a passion for 
people, find a new way to serve their communities in Richland, 
South Carolina.
    I am also thankful to the Chairman and for the National 
Senior Fraud Awareness Day, which this year was May 13, 2021. 
This day will continue to help raise awareness about the 
increasing number of scams targeting our seniors.
    Finally, let me just say to the former Chairwoman of this 
Committee, Susan Collins, who has been a strong leader on this 
issue of fraud and scams, I thank her for her leadership.
    I look forward to hearing the testimonies from our 
witnesses today. I want to thank each and every one of you for 
participating in this critical and very important meeting.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Casey. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott. I want to 
acknowledge, as we will throughout the hearing, members as they 
appear. For those seeing this on television or listening, we 
have members of the Committee in the room, but the witnesses 
are remote, and wanted to acknowledge first Senator Rosen who 
has joined us virtually.
    Let's move now to our witnesses. Our first witness is Ms. 
Lois Greisman. Ms. Greisman is the Associate Director of the 
Bureau of Consumer Protection at the Federal Trade Commission, 
where she heads the Agency's Division of Marketing Practices. 
Ms. Greisman has dedicated much of her professional career to 
combating fraud and working within the Federal Trade Commission 
to hold these scammers accountable. Today, Ms. Greisman leads 
the Commission's law enforcement initiatives tackling frauds 
and scams. She also serves the Commission's Elder Justice 
Coordinator.
    Our second witness is Ms. Odette Williamson. Ms. 
Williamson's career has been dedicated to protecting consumers 
and combating elder abuse. She currently works as a staff 
attorney at the National Consumer Law Center in Boston, 
Massachusetts, where she works on issues of consumer justice 
and economic security. Previously, Ms. Williamson served as the 
Assistant Attorney General in the Massachusetts Office of the 
Attorney General of the State, where she enforced consumer 
protection laws and served on the Elder Law Advocates Strike 
Force.
    Next, I will turn to Ranking Member Scott to introduce our 
next witness, Mrs. Vee Daniel.
    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    It is my pleasure to introduce Mrs. Vee Daniel from 
Spartanburg, South Carolina. Mrs. Daniel has been President and 
CEO of the Better Business Bureau serving the upper State of 
South Carolina since 2011. The Better Business Bureau is a 
nonprofit serving 10 counties in the upper part of the State. 
They work with the public, including military service members 
and seniors, to help consumers find businesses they can trust. 
They also investigate and call out substandard marketplace 
behavior.
    During the COVID-19 pandemic, their senior hotline received 
calls asking about various COVID-related products and claims. 
The Better Business Bureau was able to inform callers of the 
scams.
    During Mrs. Daniel's tenure, the BBB also created and 
implemented programs to help seniors better protect themselves 
against frauds and scams. I look forward to hearing about this 
program and the great work the Better Business Bureau does to 
support seniors.
    Mrs. Daniel, we thank you for your passion, your 
commitment, and your service to seniors. Thank you for taking 
the time to talk with us today, and I look forward to hearing 
your whole testimony.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Casey. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott.
    Finally, I am pleased to introduce Ms. Kate Kleinert,
    Kate, who is a resident of Glenolden, Pennsylvania. That 
is, as I mentioned, Delaware County, in the southeastern corner 
of our State. Kate retired from her career as an executive 
secretary for various businesses to take care of her late 
husband, Bernie, and currently manages public relations for a 
local author. Over the pandemic, Kate became a survivor of a 
scam and is now sharing her story to help others understand the 
emotional and financial toll the scams can take.
    Let us now move to the witness statements. We will begin 
with Ms. Greisman.
    Ms. Greisman, you may begin.

        STATEMENT OF LOIS GREISMAN, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR,

                 BUREAU OF CONSUMER PROTECTION,

           FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION, WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Ms. Greisman. I am Lois Greisman. I appreciate the 
opportunity to discuss the FTC's initiatives to protect older 
adults. As always, my oral remarks and responses to any 
question reflect my own views and do not necessarily reflect 
those of the Commission or any individual commissioner.
    Protecting older adults is a core element of the FTC's 
work. We know older adults are targeted and adversely affected 
by a wide range of scams. As many have mentioned, the pandemic 
has exacerbated that deceptive and unfair marketing and has had 
a particularly devastating impact on the health and finances of 
older communities. I want to touch on three areas: data trends, 
law enforcement, and education.
    Starting with data trends, in 2020, the FTC's Consumer 
Sentinel Network logged nearly 5 million reports from 
consumers. Older adult reporting trends are based upon reports 
about fraud from consumers who voluntarily identify themselves 
as over age 60.
    Three observations: First, as a general matter, younger 
adults, age 20 to 59, are more likely to report losing money to 
fraud than older adults, but quite disturbing is that older 
adults reported much higher individual median losses than did 
younger adults, and in fact, people age 80 and above reported 
the largest median losses.
    Second, we observed that older adults are more likely than 
younger adults to lose money to certain types of scams, mainly 
technical support scams, prize and sweepstakes scams, and 
family and friend impersonation scams. That last category 
includes the grandparent scam.
    Third, the data indicate what types of scams are causing 
the greatest dollar loss to older adults. One has already been 
mentioned by you, romance scams, followed by prize/sweepstakes 
scams and followed by business impersonator scams. The economic 
harm is enormous, more than $600 million reported by older 
adults in 2020, and we know this is just the tip of the 
iceberg. Notably, reported losses to romance scams have 
increased significantly in the years, and this trend has only 
accelerated during the pandemic.
    Shifting now to law enforcement, looking at the past year, 
we have filed at least 13 cases that have a notable impact on 
older adults. These range from investment scams to products to 
treat or prevent COVID-19, to products to treat or prevent 
cognitive decline.
    When we file a case, we have two immediate goals: stop the 
ongoing harm and preserve assets so that we can return money to 
defrauded consumers. Over the years, the FTC has successfully 
returned billions of dollars to consumers. For this year, we 
have returned money to consumers or conducted the claims 
process in at least 11 cases where we have seen older adults 
impacted.
    A recent Supreme Court decision, however, AMG, eliminated 
the FTC's ability to obtain monetary relief for defrauded 
consumers. Under Section 13(b) of the FTC Act. I cannot 
underscore enough how vital this tool, Section 13(b), has been 
to put money back into people's pockets. The economic impact of 
the pandemic has been devastating, particularly so on older 
adults who may be on fixed incomes. As a law enforcement 
agency, we are committed to providing redress to defrauded 
consumers, but to do so effectively and efficiently we need a 
fixed 13(b).
    Finally, the FTC devotes considerable resources engaging in 
outreach and education for older adults. Since 2014, Pass It On 
has been the FTC's signature fraud prevention education 
campaign for older adults. It is a robust compendium of 
resources to enable people to understand scams and to literally 
pass on information about them to friends and family. In 
addition, the FTC has continued to reach communities during the 
pandemic, conducting nearly 100 pandemic-related outreach 
events with partners in Fiscal Year 2021.
    To sum up, I hope it is clear that protecting older adults 
is a priority for the FTC. The devastating impact of the 
pandemic on older adults has only emboldened its work. Finally, 
restoring the FTC's ability to obtain monetary relief under 
13(b) is critical to enable the Agency to continue to provide 
redress to all those harmed by unfair and deceptive acts and 
practices.
    Thank you very much, and I look forward to your questions.
    Chairman Casey. Thank you, Ms. Greisman, for your 
statement.
    We will now turn to Ms. Williamson. You may begin.

        STATEMENT OF ODETTE WILLIAMSON, STAFF ATTORNEY,

                 NATIONAL CONSUMER LAW CENTER,

                     BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS

    Ms. Williamson. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Scott, and 
members of the Special Committee on Aging, thank you for 
inviting me to testify today regarding frauds and scams aimed 
at older adults during the COVID-19 pandemic. I offer my 
testimony on behalf of low-income clients of the National 
Consumer Law Center.
    The National Consumer Law Center uses its expertise on 
consumer law and energy policy to work for consumer justice and 
economic security for low-income people. At NCLC, I focus on 
issues impacting older consumers, provide training through the 
National Center on Law and Elder Rights, and direct our racial 
justice initiative.
    All consumers are vulnerable to frauds and scams, but 
widespread illness and death, combined with the social 
isolation brought on by the pandemic, created fertile ground 
for the proliferation of scams aimed at older adults. This 
includes bogus treatment and cures for COVID-19, romance scams, 
government imposter scams, and fake charities. The list is 
endless. Scammers are constantly developing new and creative 
ways to steal money from consumers.
    Scammers target older adults, whom they suspect are lonely, 
isolated, confused, or financially distressed. Low--income 
older adults, including those facing eviction, unemployment, 
and economic uncertainty, are especially at risk as they search 
for government programs or financial assistance.
    Older adults in communities that are racially, ethnically, 
or linguistically isolated face a special challenge. An FTC 
fraud survey, for example, found that Latinos experience higher 
rates of fraud than other populations. Scammers purchase ads on 
Spanish language radio and exploit misinformation and confusion 
regarding COVID-19 treatments, vaccines, and the availability 
of financial assistance. Given the disproportionate impact of 
the pandemic on communities of color, we expect to see further 
uptick in frauds and scams aimed at these communities.
    The impact of frauds and scams on older adults is simply 
devastating. Depending on the amount of money or assets taken, 
older adults can fall into poverty or homelessness. Scams also 
impact the emotional and physical health of victims as they 
struggle to live on fewer resources for food, medicine, and 
other basic necessities. The financial strain and embarrassment 
may cause older victims to become fearful, depressed, and even 
suicidal.
    The options to recover the money or assets stolen are few. 
Many scams are not discovered early, and consumers' attempts to 
stop or reverse payment is often too late or not possible. 
Scammers are known for the speed with which they redeem gift 
cards and pick up money wired to them, and consumers are rarely 
able to retrieve funds sent through these mechanisms.
    More protections are needed to give consumers a fighting 
chance to recover money transferred to scammers. New payment 
systems, such as the peer-to-peer, or P2P, payment platforms--
Venmo, Cash App, and others--are being used to facilitate 
scams. The warnings provided by the payment apps are simply not 
enough to protect consumers. Rather, Congress should modernize 
the Federal law, the Electronic Funds Transfer Act, to add 
protections for fraudulently induced payments and consumer 
errors.
    Finally, the Federal Reserve Board is in the middle of 
developing a new P2P payment system called FedNow. However, 
recently proposed rules for the FedNow program duplicate the 
problems of existing P2P payment systems by failing to provide 
consumers with protections against fraud and consumer errors. 
Financial institutions and payment providers have a 
responsibility to prevent accounts from being used for scams 
and other illegal purposes. The Fed must make FedNow a model 
for other payment systems and must not value speed and 
convenience at the expense of safety.
    Older consumers who have suffered the devastating health 
and economic consequences of the COVID-19 pandemic deserve the 
highest level of protection from frauds and scams.
    I thank you for the opportunity to testify today and look 
forward to your questions.
    Chairman Casey. Thank you, Ms. Williamson, for your opening 
statement.
    Mrs. Daniel, you may begin.
    I know we had some connection issues.
    Senator Tim Scott. Yes. I think she may still be suffering 
through the technology issues there.
    Chairman Casey. Maybe we will move to our next witness, and 
we can come back to Mrs. Daniel. We will move now to Kate 
Kleinert.

     STATEMENT OF KATE KLEINERT, SCAM SURVIVOR, GLENOLDEN, 
                          PENNSYLVANIA

    Ms. Kleinert. Good morning, Chairman Casey, Ranking Member 
Scott, and members of the Aging Committee. My name is Kate 
Kleinert, and I am scam survivor. I am from Glenolden, 
Pennsylvania, and I have been widowed for 12 years. My husband, 
Bernie, passed away in 2009. Since then, I have never looked 
for any new romance in my life because I still felt married to 
my husband. I was not interested in finding another love.
    Last summer, in August 2020, I received a friend request on 
Facebook that caught my eye. It was, unfortunately, the one in 
a million that I decided to accept and become friends with. His 
name is Tony. Well, that is what he told me. We exchanged 
messages for a number of days, and he told me that he was 
interested in the same things that he saw on my Facebook page, 
like dogs and gardening. I thought that was wonderful.
    We started talking on the phone through an app he had me 
download. He told me he was a surgeon working in Iraq through a 
contract with the United Nations and that he has two children, 
a little boy and a girl.
    Tony became romantic much more quickly than I did, and I 
kept trying to put him off, saying we did not know each other. 
Tony had the kids get in touch with me through e-mail, and they 
started calling me ``mom,'' which is my Achilles heel because I 
did not have children of my own. That put me head over heels.
    The first request for money came from the girl who needed 
some feminine supplies but was embarrassed to ask her father. I 
sent her a gift card. I would go to any store, buy a gift card, 
take a picture of the front, the back, and the receipt, and 
send her that information through e-mail, and she could use it 
to make purchases. From then, there was always some kind of an 
emergency or some urgent need for money.
    Things became more serious between Tony and I. He wanted to 
get married. He even asked if I would go out and start looking 
at houses. I was constantly sending him gift cards even though 
now I was using up the last of my husband's life insurance. My 
savings were gone. I was living on my credit cards, and he was 
getting what I took from Social Security and my pension. In all 
this time, only one person, an employee at a drugstore, ever 
asked me if I knew who I was sending these gift cards to. I 
kept doing this because he swore to me he would repay me the 
minute he got back to the States and even sent me his passwords 
to his account at Bank of America so I could see his balance, 
which was a little over $2 million.
    When he was finally allowed vacation, Tony was going to fly 
to Philadelphia on December 10th, and I was going to pick him 
up at the airport. I was so excited. I got all dressed up. My 
hair was done. My nails were done. I waited all night long. He 
never called. Even at this point, I never considered that it 
was a scam. I was just worried about him.
    Then the next morning I got a call from a man who said he 
was Tony's lawyer and said that in Iraq someone had slipped 
drugs into Tony's bag and he knew nothing about it but was 
arrested at the airport and now needed money for bail. He asked 
me for $20,000. The lawyer told me to do whatever I could, take 
out a second mortgage on my home, borrow it from my family, do 
whatever I could, but I was not able to do that.
    I became suspicious when I asked to meet Tony in person, 
but the lawyer said that he had been transferred to Oklahoma. I 
became even more suspicious when Tony started calling me 
himself five or six times a day from prison, asking for more 
gift cards to buy better food. Something was not right.
    By now, I had sent him a total of $39,000, which to some 
people is not much, but to someone in my position it is a great 
deal. I am still paying for that today because I cannot get 
things repaired at the house. I have had no air conditioning 
this summer. My refrigerator is off, and my stove is off. I 
have been leaning on my sisters and a few friends to get me 
through this. The loss that hurts the most was losing his love 
and losing the family I thought I was going to have and what my 
new future was going to be. That is much harder to deal with 
than losing the money.
    I have since come to find out that all those pictures he 
sent me of himself were actually a doctor in Spain. I tried to 
report this to the police but could not get anyone to listen to 
me. I also called AARP's fraud number that was in their 
magazine and got a retired detective who was supportive and 
encouraged me to share my story. I have been frustrated at the 
lack of options to recover the money that I have lost or the 
ability to hold him responsible for these damages.
    Even though this experience is painful to speak about, I 
want to be an ambassador for this cause because it is so 
devastating and many people have been through this but not 
spoken about it. They continue to carry this heavy burden 
alone. In my case, I got pulled in because I had forgotten how 
good it felt to be loved. Thank you.
    Chairman Casey. Kate, thank you for sharing your personal 
story. It was a moving story when I read it but ever more so 
when we hear it from you. We are just grateful you are here 
with us.
    I think we are going to try Mrs. Daniel again to see if she 
is connected.
    Ms. Daniel. Yes. Sorry about that.
    Chairman Casey. Great.

       STATEMENT OF VEE DANIEL, PRESIDENT AND CEO, BETTER

        BUSINESS BUREAU SERVING UPSTATE SOUTH CAROLINA,

                   GREENVILLE, SOUTH CAROLINA

    Ms. Daniel. Chairman Casey, Ranking Member Tim Scott, and 
distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today on a topic of ``Fraud, Scams, and 
COVID-19: How Con Artists Have Targeted Older Americans During 
the Pandemic.''
    My name is Vee Daniel. I am a college communications major 
graduate, mother of an early childhood teacher, an intern 
architect, and a new grandmother. I will be celebrating my 30th 
wedding anniversary this year.
    I serve as President and CEO of the Better Business Bureau 
of the Upstate and the Better Business Bureau Education 
Foundation, a position I have held since 2011. BBB is a 
nonprofit promoting trust between consumers and businesses and 
the marketplace and has been around for more than 100 years.
    When I was first offered the position, I was intrigued. I 
grew up with a father who was a huge advocate for the BBB. When 
his friends needed assistance with customer service issues, my 
dad would always say, call the BBB.
    After a few weeks on the job, I received an invitation to 
speak to a senior group about the latest scams. I will never 
forget that day I spoke to those seniors and listened to their 
scam stories. It was heartbreaking. I learned to speak louder, 
ask questions, listen, and the most important part was 
realizing education is the key to fighting senior fraud. That 
is when I knew this role with the BBB was the perfect fit for 
me. Since that day, I never turn down an opportunity to speak 
to educate seniors. In 2015, we dubbed the program ``Savvy 
Seniors'' because that is what we wanted to achieve.
    During the pandemic, we witnessed new scams that involved 
masks, non-FDA-approved medical supplies, immunity--boosting 
products, and equipment through online purchases related to 
COVID-19. We have also seen fake websites, phishing e-mails 
that involve stimulus checks, price gouging, scammers 
impersonating government agencies like Medicare, and promoting 
fake vaccines. We have also seen an increase in romance scams 
during COVID-19.
    BBBs across the country rallied together to put out fraud 
prevention messages, and we did thousands of media interviews 
to try to warn consumers about all COVID-related scams we were 
seeing. Senior groups were not able to meet during COVID-19, so 
we partnered with our local Appalachian Council of Governments 
Greenville office and Meals and Wheels to provide 1,000 BBB 
Savvy Senior packets that included education information on 
fraud and scams.
    As part of a larger national effort, the BBB of the Upstate 
has hosted Secure Your ID Day since 2009. Local BBBs from all 
across the United States and Canada join in on the event 
designed to protect consumers from the growing threat of 
identity theft and provide education. Consumers and businesses 
are encouraged to attend the free community service event and 
properly shred and destroy sensitive documents. In 2018, BBB 
Upstate partnered with AARP-South Carolina, and from that 
partnership we have increased our shred events from 4 to now 8 
events a year. Last week, we held two events, one in Greenville 
and one in Anderson, with two happening in October in 
Spartanburg and Simpsonville in our area. About 90 percent of 
attendees are seniors.
    BBB Scam Tracker is an online platform that enables 
consumers and businesses to report scams and suspicious 
activities. The data is analyzed, and reports are made 
available to the general public, thus empowering consumers to 
avoid losing money to scammers. The website features a 
searchable heat map, so users can view the number, types, and 
details about scammers, scams reported in their communities. 
BBB Scam Tracker data enables local BBBs to educate consumers 
and stop fraudsters by leveraging the power of technology and 
our network of BBBs serving communities through North America 
and Canada.
    Using data from the BBB Scam Tracker, our foundation, the 
BBB Institute for Marketplace Trust, released a report on the 
rise of online scams during the COVID-19. The BBB Risk Index is 
a formula that looks at scams in a different way: the volume of 
each type of scam reported to BBB Scam Tracker; the 
susceptibility rate, that is, how people who exposed to the 
scam actually lose money; and the dollar loss. That formula 
shows us which scams are the riskiest, and it may not be for 
the scam with the most reports. For instance, romance scams 
were the riskiest for ages 55 through 64, followed by online 
purchases and investment scams. Travel, vacation, timeshare 
scams were the riskiest for ages 65-plus, followed by online 
purchases and romance scams.
    Since BBB began tracking scams in this way in 2016, we have 
seen a clear pattern. Although seniors are pretty savvy and 
tend to fall for scams less frequently than the younger 
demographic groups, they lose more money. This is partly 
because the type of scams that target seniors--romance scams, 
investment scams, family emergency scams--tend to be the higher 
dollar amounts.
    Although many seniors have gotten the message and are more 
cautious than in the past, too many are still falling victim to 
unscrupulous criminals. BBB is proud of the role we play in 
educating seniors and all the consumers, but there is much more 
that can be done, and we appreciate the attention this issue is 
getting.
    Thank you for the opportunity to be a witness today on a 
relevant topic of how con artists have targeted older Americans 
during the pandemic.
    Chairman Casey. Mrs. Daniel, thanks so much for your 
testimony.
    I want to acknowledge two members of the Committee who are 
here, or one who has been here and will be back, I guess. 
Senator Collins is here with us.
    Ranking Member Scott made reference, Senator Collins, to 
the years when you were Chairman and producing the fraud and 
scams book that the Committee has been using for so many years. 
We thank you for being here.
    Senator Braun was with us earlier, and I want to 
acknowledge Senator Braun's attendance at the hearing, and 
maybe he will be back here.
    So we will take a brief recess now to vote, at least so 
that Ranking Member Scott and I can vote, and then we will come 
back and resume the hearing.
    [Recess.]
    Chairman Casey. Okay. The hearing will resume, and I wanted 
to start by acknowledging that Senator Gillibrand and Senator 
Warnock, have joined us via Webex. I will start with my 
questions and then turn to Ranking Member Scott.
    I want to start with Kate Kleinert. Kate, as I mentioned, 
your story is so powerful, and unfortunately, for America it is 
not unique. I think every member of the Committee was moved by 
what you said. As I said, your written testimony was powerful 
enough, but hearing it directly from you had a big impact on me 
and I know other members. We are grateful you are here, and we 
are grateful that your story can help other seniors when there 
are scammers out there and perpetrators of fraud trying to rip 
people off.
    I wanted to focus on one part of your story and the story 
of many others, Kate. You said that, or you know, I should say, 
that social isolation is not something new for seniors, but for 
many people the pandemic made this terrible isolation that much 
worse. Do you believe the pandemic left you more susceptible to 
being scammed?
    Ms. Kleinert. I really do. When I think back to the 
beginning of the pandemic, when we were first locked down and 
it was so strange to be home without any physical contact with 
other folks, not seeing your family, it was very hard and 
upsetting to be by yourself. I think when this man was kind to 
me on the Facebook that I did react to it more than I would 
have at any other time.
    Chairman Casey. Yes, I think that is understandable. I 
thought it was noteworthy among many things you said that as 
much as you lost a significant dollar amount, some $39,000--I 
was just recounting that to some reporters in the hallway as we 
went out to vote. I was struck as well by what you said on page 
three of your testimony, where you said ``The loss that hurts 
the most was losing his love and losing the family I thought I 
was going to have and what my new future was going to be.'' 
That tells us so much about how devastating these scams can be.
    So, Kate, we are grateful for your testimony, and I may be 
able to come back to you later with some other questions.
    This question I will direct to Ms. Williamson and Mrs. 
Daniel together, and it does not matter who answers first.
    As we just made reference to Kate's testimony, she shared 
that only one person, an employee at a retail store, warned her 
that she might be a victim or might be a target of a scam. 
Businesses and financial institutions are, of course, uniquely 
situated to respond to these attempts to rip people off, but 
often the employees of those institutions are not trained to 
detect fraud or to speak in a sensitive and effective manner to 
the consumer, to give them a heads-up based upon their 
experience and their training.
    As I mentioned, our bill, the bipartisan Stop Senior Scams 
Act, would fill in these gaps in both knowledge and training so 
that we have more instances so it is not just in Kate's case, 
one person, but more than one person giving people a heads-up.
    So in your view--and I guess maybe I will start with Mrs. 
Daniel just to go in order. In your view, would this 
legislation help reduce the risk . . . the risk of older 
Americans being defrauded?
    Ms. Daniel. Yes, I would think that it would. You know, 
any--you know, there is lots of reports out there about, you 
know, with education and everything. I mean, I think it is very 
important that with the education and with the risk that we are 
talking about--you know, I think it would definitely help. You 
know, I think that during COVID-19, you know, it was more 
risky, and it still is because COVID is still going on. I would 
say, definitely, I think it is.
    Chairman Casey. Ms. Williamson?
    Ms. Williamson. I would also support the legislation. I 
think we need more tools to prevent, to fight these scams up 
front. Simply, the retail employees are first line of defense. 
They are in these stores day in and day out. They know their 
customers. If they have more training and more information on 
these scams, they can simply warn the victims not to complete 
this transaction.
    It is simply better to not have the elder transfer away 
that money than to try to get that money back on the back end. 
There are just fewer options to retrieve that money once it is 
transferred away.
    Chairman Casey. Well, thank you very much. Just as you were 
answering the question, I am reminded of a story from years ago 
in this Committee where we heard the story about someone who 
was a target of a scam, and it was not until he was in the 
parking lot of the bank where he was about to transfer money 
that he got someone to interrupt and say you have got to think 
about this before you go into the bank. The more people that 
can provide that warning, the better.
    I will turn next to Ranking Member Scott.
    Senator Tim Scott. Mr. Chairman, I will defer my opening 
questions to my brother from another mother, Senator Scott from 
Florida.
    Senator Rick Scott. Thank you, Senator Scott.
    [Inaudible.]
    Chairman Casey. I think we need a microphone.
    Senator Rick Scott. You worry about them every day, whether 
somebody is going to try to take advantage of them. When you 
hear the story of somebody that acts romantically interested 
and takes somebody's life savings, it devastates you because it 
is very difficult for law enforcement to find these people and 
to track them down and to be able to prosecute them, and it is 
so large. Your heart goes out to people that this happens to.
    My first question is for Ms. Greisman. First, I want to 
thank you for your hard work to protect our seniors and 
everything you do to bring justice to the criminals who take 
advantage of our older Americans. Are there any additional 
resources or authorities you and your team need to carry out 
your mission?
    Ms. Greisman. Senator Scott, I appreciate the question. The 
main tool we need back is our ability to obtain, effectively 
and efficiently obtain, monetary relief under Section 13(b) of 
the Federal Trade Commission Act. A remedy to fix that is what 
truly needed so that we can put money back in people's pockets, 
money back to people who are defrauded.
    Senator Rick Scott. We have put out information out of our 
office to give to seniors to try to get them to do it.
    Ms. Kleinert, first off, I just want to tell you that it is 
disgusting that this happened. It is disgusting that this 
individual took your money and also disgusting that he gave you 
hope when he should not have. Criminals are just like this, 
they are despicable.
    What advice do you give others to make sure this does not, 
you know, happen to them? Is there anything when you look back 
that you can say, gosh, I should have--there was a red flag I 
did not see, that maybe somebody else will say they see your 
testimony and they will not make--the same thing will not 
happen to them?
    Ms. Kleinert. I have really been astonished at the amount 
of information that has been said today, the things that are 
out there, programs that are out there, and I knew nothing 
about them. I think there is a gap between what is being done 
and the senior citizens, and we need to close that somehow.
    I am not so sure the education of the retail personnel is 
the way to go. If I am in the line at a drugstore, buying a 
gift card, and there is a 19-year-old kid behind the cash 
register with a Santa hat on, I do not think I am going to 
listen to him about the dangers of buying that gift card.
    I think there needs to be some kind of a pamphlet, a 
brochure that has statistics, warning signs, and where to go, 
not sitting at the cash register to take one if you want one, 
not being handed to you by the cashier if he says, ``Would you 
like to have this,'' but to be automatically put in the bag 
when you are purchasing a gift card. Just put it in the bag. 
People will go home. A lot of them will throw it away, but many 
more, when they are by themselves, will sit and read this and 
take it to heart.
    There has to be more education out there, and it has to be 
more visible to the senior citizens. Get commercials on the 
television. Show scenarios of scams and how they come about. 
Tell people that you are not dumb for falling for it, that 
these people are so sophisticated and so good what they do that 
you are not being stupid or making bad decisions by being taken 
in by these people. They are smarter than you are.
    Senator Rick Scott. Have you gotten much media attention? 
Has the media been interested in your story?
    Ms. Kleinert. I have been interviewed for a newspaper 
article earlier in the spring, and AARP asked me to do a 
podcast. I have done two podcasts, but that has been it.
    Senator Rick Scott. Okay. Mrs. Vee Daniel, I want to thank 
you for the work you have done. Do you think that local 
businesses have the resources they need to educate their staff 
on potential fraudulent activity, and is there anything else 
that you think that we ought to be doing to help our small 
businesses to do a better job to stop this?
    Ms. Daniel. I think--well, thank you, Senator Scott.
    Great question. I think there is definitely more education 
that could be done. As I mentioned, most of our Savvy Seniors 
are groups, and we do small business webinars actually to our 
accredited businesses and non-accredited businesses. I think 
there is definitely more education that we can do with small 
businesses to, you know, alert them, the small business owners 
and their staffs, of the, you know, prevention tips and what to 
look out for.
    So I definitely--you know, in our area, we cover 10 
counties. We are a staff of nine, and you know, we try to do 
the best that we can. I think definitely with more 
collaboration just like we did with AARP this past year, and 
more collaboration with government agencies, to be able to 
provide more education.
    Senator Rick Scott. Thank you.
    Thank you, Chairman.
    Chairman Casey. Senator Scott, thanks very much.
    I will next turn to Ranking Member Scott.
    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I will direct my first question to Mrs. Daniel. Mrs. 
Daniel, under your leadership, the Better Business Bureau is 
really making a difference in the lives of our fellow South 
Carolinians. The Savvy Senior program provides tips on how to 
spot the latest scams. Have you heard from golden Americans who 
utilized the lessons they learn from the program and applied it 
to their lives?
    Ms. Daniel. Yes. That is the rewarding part. I mean, the 
rewarding part is, you know, when you hear someone that says 
that, you know, our prevention tips or red flags helped them 
stop from becoming the next victim. It is very rewarding.
    I can tell a little bit of a story we had, a short story. I 
had an executive. He was a retired executive of a very large 
business here in the Greenville area that came into the office, 
and he wanted to talk because he had a new employment job that 
he was starting to feel a little--you know, he was not sure 
whether it was a scam or not. He came in and talked to us, and 
you know, he said that basically what he was doing was he had 
someone contact him about a job opportunity which was offering 
a lot of money. What he started doing was packaging up items 
that were shipped to him by his employer and then he would 
reship them to someone else. As soon as he said that--because 
we have seen that before. It is called employment scam. We just 
immediately told him, you need to stop. What you are doing is 
wrong. It is--you know, you should not be making that much 
money. Then he says, well, I have not even been paid. He had 
been doing it for a while. Then I said, you need to stop. He 
agreed. He agreed. About a couple weeks later, we heard back 
from him, and he told me that he got a call from the Mall of 
America, an investigator from Mall of America, and that what he 
was doing was wrong because what he was shipping was actually 
bought from stolen credit cards.
    Senator Tim Scott. Wow. Wow.
    Ms. Daniel. He called me, and he asked me if I would reach 
out to the guy from Mall of America, the investigator, and so I 
did. I let him know the guy was very up and up. He is a very up 
and up leader. He was a leader in our community, and you know, 
he just got intertwined with something that he thought was 
right, was wrong.
    There was no charges or anything, and actually they worked 
with him later on. We do not really know all the specifics 
there. You know, without him coming into the office and talking 
to us, my worry is he could have been indicted or he could be 
in jail.
    Senator Tim Scott. I guess.
    Ms. Daniel. You know, that is just one example, but thank 
you.
    Senator Tim Scott. That is a very good example. Thank God 
for your hard work and your dedication on such an important 
issue.
    Let me ask you one other question before I turn to Ms. 
Greisman. Given your background and extensive experience with 
the Better Business Bureau, can you help us understand how to 
help our seniors who live in rural America? Sometimes they do 
not get the same level of information and they are not perhaps 
as connected to broadband. They may not have broadband 
connections. They may not have the same access to information 
as folks who live in more suburban areas. Is there a way that 
the Savvy Senior program helps to encourage and inform our 
rural golden Americans?
    Ms. Daniel. Yes, the Savvy Senior program does. It is just 
short, very short. Basically, the program over the years has 
presented to senior groups in all parts of our 10 counties that 
we cover, even rural areas. What I say is, whether we drive 10 
miles or 100, we never say no to presenting education to 
seniors about scams and fraud.
    Senator Tim Scott. Excellent. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Greisman, thank you for your work and certainly your 
expertise. I am certainly proud to co-sponsor with Chairman 
Casey Senate Bill 337, the Stop Senior Scams Act, which creates 
an advisory group with industry stakeholders, and leading and 
regulatory bodies, to identify opportunities for consumers, 
companies, policymakers, and law enforcement to protect our 
aging community.
    In light of your work with the Commission, could you please 
speak to how this new advisory group can serve to optimize the 
Commission's current practices without duplicating work that 
has already been done at the Federal level?
    Ms. Greisman. Thank you, Senator Scott. Look, we are keen 
to work with you and your staff on any type of legislation that 
will enhance and improve our ability to serve older adults and 
to do so more efficiently. We look forward to working with you 
on that.
    Senator Tim Scott. Thank you, ma'am.
    Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Casey. Ranking Member Scott, thanks very much.
    We are awaiting some other Senators. I wanted to continue 
the question period with one that I had, and I will pick up 
where the Ranking Member left off with regard to the witness, 
in this case, Ms. Greisman.
    We have heard Kate's story earlier that I made reference 
to, and you heard Kate Kleinert's testimony. In particular, of 
course, what she has identified is a particular kind of scam, a 
romance scam. We know that she is not alone. Unfortunately, 
this is one of the areas where there is an awful lot of 
increase or growth in that kind of a scam. In fact, the Federal 
Trade Commission reported a significant increase in reports of 
these scams between 2019 and 2020 as Americans became more 
isolated.
    I just looked in your testimony, Ms. Greisman. I am looking 
at page four. It says, ``For older adults, reported losses to 
romance scams increased from near $84 million to about $139 
million in 2020.'' So, 84 to 139. There are millions of 
dollars. Every time it moves up the scale, millions of dollars. 
Then it goes on to say, or your testimony, I should say, goes 
on to say, ``Among older adults, hardest hit were the 60-69 and 
70-79 age groups.'' Basically everybody over 60, between 
basically 60 and 80, ``which reported $129 million of the 2020 
losses,'' meaning $129 of the $139 million in losses were 
reported by that age group, ``making romance scams the category 
of highest reported losses for both groups.'' Obviously, a lot 
of money and a big cohort of Americans being affected by this.
    Ms. Greisman, here is my question. Based on this uptick in 
romance scams and all the dollars lost because of it during the 
pandemic, what work is the Commission doing to both educate 
consumers and to prevent, or help consumers prevent, themselves 
from being preyed upon by these so--called romance scammers?
    Ms. Greisman. Thank you, Chairman. First of all, let me say 
that Ms. Kleinert is indeed a compelling Ambassador, and her 
testimony is courageous, and it highlights how sophisticated 
romance scammers are and how they work hard to build trust and 
cause enormous harm.
    One of the main payment systems that romance scammers use 
are money transfers, and the FTC in recent years has sued both 
major--each of the major money transfer networks, MoneyGram and 
Western Union. MoneyGram recently failed to live up to the 
requirements of a prior order and crack down on fraudulent 
transfers across its network, and Western Union facilitated 
fraudulent--allegedly, facilitated fraudulent transfers on its 
system. I think that type of law enforcement work goes a long 
way toward minimizing the harm that is caused by wire transfers 
in connection with romance scams.
    On the education front, Pass It On, again, is our signature 
education campaign. What we have seen, and I think what Ms. 
Kleinert's testimony underscores, is how important it is that 
people have the knowledge of scams, and that is a primary goal 
of the FTC: to educate; push out information; to do it at 
local, State, and Federal levels; work with our partners like 
the Better Business Bureaus, consumer groups, AARP. Getting 
information out there so that people are aware of the type of 
scam, we know from research, makes it less likely they will 
fall prey to that scam.
    Chairman Casey. Well, thanks very much.
    I am going to concede the rest of my time and turn to 
Senator Gillibrand, who is, I think, connected for her 
questions.
    Senator Gillibrand. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, Ms. Greisman, for your testimony and the answer 
to the Chairman's last question. I just have a follow-up 
question. How can the FTC do more to get information out to 
seniors in all of their communities so they can recognize this 
fraud more?
    I have been to assisted living facilities across New York, 
and I have heard story after story. Stealing life savings. The 
grandchild scam. You know, all the different kinds of ways. The 
IRS scam. It does not end.
    We know that a lot of these artists are--scam artists are 
criminals, criminal networks. I know we arrested a criminal 
network from India, one from Russia. The FBI works to subvert 
these kinds of frauds.
    I feel that the FTC needs to work in perhaps a different 
way to make financial institutions more aware, to make sure 
seniors are more aware, to make sure places where seniors go, 
assisted living facilities are more aware. What can you do to 
help solve this problem?
    Ms. Greisman. Senator, maximizing our outreach, maximizing 
our ability to reach in the communities is just a top priority, 
and it is a challenge. It is especially more so--it is a 
special challenge in a pandemic. I assure you our outreach 
efforts are constantly being rethought, re--evaluated. It is 
our goal to reach into the communities at the grassroots 
levels, through local organizations like the public libraries, 
through legal services. We have a tremendous network of 
contacts, and we are constantly tapping them both to push out 
information, so that they have access to the resources we have 
and can use in their communities, and also to receive 
information from them to inform our law enforcement work and 
our education and outreach.
    Senator Gillibrand. Is your outreach including sort of this 
urgency, that if they are a scam that they are going to report 
these scams? Obviously, if we do not give the FBI the 
information and law enforcement the information to go after 
them, they will have less data and information to be 
successful.
    Ms. Greisman. A core piece of information that is 
indispensable to all of our outreach is to report what they are 
hearing. Go to www.reportfraud.ftc.gov. It is absolutely, 
incredibly important that we receive that information so that 
we know what is going on and we can be proactive in our 
enforcement.
    Senator Gillibrand. Are you asking the institutions to do 
the reporting? I can promise you no senior that has been 
scammed is going to want to go to a website and report the 
scam. If they are not willing to go to the police in the first 
place, they are not going to go to a website. Are you asking 
the assisted living facilities and the financial institutions 
to do the reporting?
    Ms. Greisman. We do receive data from certain contributors 
in the private sector such as MoneyGram, Western Union, Better 
Business Bureaus. I am not aware that any financial 
institutions report directly to us, but that is certainly 
something that we will give thought to. Appreciate it.
    Senator Gillibrand. Ms. Kleinert, thank you so much for 
sharing your story. I know it is a horrible, horrible thing. 
You are very courageous, and you can prevent what happened to 
you from happening to other people. Can you tell us what you 
wish was available for you or how would you have been able to 
be warned more effectively? What would have worked for you, and 
what type of interventions or resources would be helpful for 
you and your friends?
    Ms. Kleinert. I think we need to get more of this 
information out to the people. I had no idea where to go. I 
tried reporting my problem to the police but could not get them 
to listen to me. That was very discouraging, and I was giving 
up at that point.
    I did call the AARP fraud line and got a very nice man. 
That is important, too, to have someone who is compassionate 
and not speaking down to you, not talking to you like you are 
senile and cannot make good decisions because that is not true. 
That is--you already feel that way anyway by yourself. You do 
not need someone else reinforcing that.
    Senator Gillibrand. To be honest, Ms. Kleinert, these are 
highly sophisticated criminals. This criminal enterprise of 
senior fraud is worth hundreds of billions of dollars every 
year. It is not a small thing. You guys are their primary 
targets because seniors together have over a trillion dollars 
of assets, you are a ripe, very rich target for these criminal 
networks.
    I guess what you are saying is you would like law 
enforcement to be better informed so they could have put you in 
touch with the right people. Police departments.
    Ms. Kleinert. Yes.
    Senator Gillibrand. That might be a way, Ms. Greisman. To 
reach out to law enforcement so that the FTC can actually brief 
every police department in America, you know, over the next 
several years would be great because, you know, if Ms. Kleinert 
has an extinct to report this to the police, and the police 
make fun of her or do not take her seriously or say, well, you 
are stupid, then not only does Ms. Kleinert not get justice or 
does not get to effectively report, but it is going to make her 
feel that it was her fault. That is exactly the opposite of the 
nature of these crimes. They are highly sophisticated 
adversaries, who are doing everything they can to steal 
resources. Is that something the FTC can do, Ms. Greisman?
    Ms. Greisman. We do work closely with local police offices 
and have----
    Senator Gillibrand. You put together a training for them, 
like even just a deck of slides for police departments to use 
to train all police officers?
    Ms. Greisman. I do not know that we have specifically done 
a training for police officers. We do have a tool kit actually 
on stopping gift card scams, and the driving force of it, the 
message, is that gift cards are for gifts. That tool kit is 
targeted toward retailers, and it gives them information they 
can display in their stores, interact with customers.
    Senator Gillibrand. That is super helpful. Well, maybe 
then--I mean, on this Committee, we will have recommendations 
because that is what our committees do, but just from this 
hearing alone I hope that you will take some of the information 
you learned here and implement it.
    Chairman Casey. Well, thanks very much, Senator.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Casey. Thanks, Senator Gillibrand.
    We will turn to Senator Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you 
to you and Senator Scott for having this hearing.
    I would like to talk about robocalls which are a bane of 
all of our existence but most especially, I think, for seniors. 
I hear from them all the time. In 2019, I supported the passage 
of the Telephone Robocall Abuse Criminal Enforcement and 
Deterrence Act, known as the TRACE Act, which directed the FCC 
to establish standards to protect consumers from 
unauthenticated numbers and to work with providers to verify 
the legitimacy of incoming calls.
    This law has worked in part, not an ultimate answer, but 
now nearly 95 percent of high-risk robocalls do not originate 
from the 6 largest carriers.
    Unfortunately, smaller internet-based providers, who have 
until 2023 to work within the FCC's requirements, now account 
for the majority of these robocalls. They continue to prey on 
our seniors. They do so especially in these times of pandemic, 
when seniors and all of us are particularly vulnerable to these 
pitches.
    Let me ask you, Ms. Williamson, how effective are 
robocallers in reaching consumers, particularly older 
Americans?
    Ms. Williamson. Thank you for your question. Scams aimed at 
older adults are primarily perpetrated over the telephone. The 
protections that you mentioned are critical to helping older 
adults avoid these types of scams, and we certainly thank you 
for your efforts on that. We also believe that their 
protections should be enhanced to further clarify that with 
respect to the TCPA, that solicitation--the prohibition against 
solicitations does apply to scam calls. We need further 
protections against spoof calls. We absolutely support the 
FCC's efforts on that end to date. We also need to tamp down on 
other loopholes, such as the fake charity scams, and make sure 
that when consumers, when older adults are being requested to 
put their hard-earned money to help others, that those 
charities are actually legitimate.
    Senator Blumenthal. Taking that point, I think it is an 
important point about charity scams. How much have you seen 
arise in those charity scams during the pandemic? Is there an 
increase? What would you say about charity scams?
    Ms. Williamson. Certainly we do not have data on the 
charity scams. We just have information that we have heard from 
consumers and advocates. What we have heard is that there is 
indeed an uptick in these types of fake charity scams, that 
older adults at home, isolated, wanting to help in some way, 
are being victimized by these types of scams. We are looking to 
put more protections in place to help avoid those types of 
scams.
    Senator Blumenthal. Do you find that seniors are 
particularly vulnerable to these scams, as we have found when I 
was Attorney General of Connecticut, during times of crisis, in 
cases of natural disaster, whether it is hurricanes, floods? We 
have seen a lot of both and other weather events. Is there an 
increased vulnerability because of those natural disasters?
    Ms. Williamson. Oh, absolutely. Scammers read the 
headlines. They follow what is happening, especially if they 
are outside the United States. They follow what is happening in 
terms of disasters, in terms of other issues coming up in the 
news, and they tailor their scams to fit those details. If 
there is a natural disaster, if there is a fire, flood in an 
area, they are targeting consumers in those areas. They are 
targeting older adults. They are targeting people who they know 
to be sympathetic, who they know to be charitable, to get them 
to turn over their hard--earned money to them.
    Senator Blumenthal. What I have advised seniors is that 
they should contribute and be generous but make sure they know 
that the organization that they are supporting is in fact the 
one that they really want to support. In other words, 
Americares, the Red Cross, these organizations are established. 
They do good work. Would you agree?
    Ms. Williamson. Absolutely would agree that there are ways 
to research the charity and make sure that it is legitimate, 
make sure that it will help the people you intend--that your 
money will help the people you intend your money to be directed 
toward. There are so many ways to absolutely find out about the 
background of an organization.
    We always advise for consumers to be wary, that if they are 
being solicited over the phone to research the organization 
through other means, and to really give their money to 
reputable charities.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you very much, Ms. Williamson.
    Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Casey. Thanks very much, Senator Blumenthal.
    The second vote just started, almost about 10 minutes into 
the vote, so we have got to hustle. We will hear from Senator 
Rosen who rejoined us, then Senator Kelly, and then we will 
close. Senator Rosen.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I have already voted. I was 
presiding in the Chair. Thank you, Chairman Casey, of course, 
Ranking Member Scott. This is a really important hearing, 
Chairman. Scams against seniors are nothing new, and they are 
only increasing in scope and severity. I appreciate your 
holding this important hearing and for all the witnesses here 
today for the important work that you do. Of course, Nevada is 
no different than some of the other states or most other 
states, and we have a lot of challenges in health scams, 
particularly now of course with the pandemic. You know, one of 
the challenges throughout the pandemic has just been the 
unchecked spread of misinformation, disinformation, of course, 
resulting in an increase in scams, especially those targeted at 
seniors.
    In fact, according to the Federal Trade Commission, in 
2020, Nevadans over the age of 60 lost more than $36.5 million 
to scams. That is a lot of money. Some of the most common 
COVID-19 scams in Nevada related to those involving the 
creation and distribution of fake vaccine cards and contact 
tracing scams in which scammers pose as health department 
officials asking for sensitive personal information, such as 
your Medicare or Social Security number.
    Fortunately, our attorney general, his office has compiled 
a list of COVID-19-related scams and tips on how to avoid 
falling victim. People have resources, where to check if they 
are able. As elected officials, I believe we have to do as much 
as we can to get the word out about these scams.
    Ms. Greisman, for the record, I want to really clear the 
air for Nevada seniors and get this out everywhere I can. Would 
a legitimate tax department official ever ask for a senior's 
personal information, like their Medicare or Social Security 
number, with the contact tracing for COVID-19?
    Ms. Greisman. No, no. No legitimate entity would make an 
unsolicited request for that kind of personal information.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I am going to reiterate that; no 
legitimate entity would make a request for that personal 
information. Thank you.
    I know you have been speaking about this, but for those who 
do fall victim and they do give their sensitive personal 
information and they fall victim to now a COVID-related scam, 
can you talk about, Ms. Williamson, some of the resources 
available to the senior or someone who is helping them, maybe 
another family member or a caregiver, to help recover that 
information and reverse potential damage?
    Ms. Williamson. Sure. There are many resources available to 
older adults who have fallen victim to scams and frauds. I 
think the first line of defense is for the older adult and his 
or her advocate to really audit all of their financial 
accounts. Call their banks. Call the credit card company. Make 
sure that they reach out to law enforcement organizations. Of 
course, the FTC has a great part of their website that will 
help victims as well. I would refer folks to that as well.
    What is also important is to reach out to the IRS or the 
Social Security Administration if there has been a disclosure 
of personally identifiable financial information. Just make 
sure those organizations as well know that you have been 
victimized by this scam.
    It is also important really to reach out to a legal 
services organization or to another lawyer to make sure that 
you protect your whatever money or assets you have remaining 
because if the fraudsters really have your financial 
information they could be wrecking--doing damage to not only 
your credit report but also trying to seek other assets that 
you may have.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. We have been really proud because 
our U.S. attorney in Nevada appointed a COVID-19 fraud 
coordinator to lead investigations, to help with just the kinds 
of things you are talking about, and our attorney general did 
announce the creation of a COVID-19 task force to help protect 
Nevadans, all of Nevadans, not just seniors, who may fall 
victim.
    It is a whole-of-government approach that we are trying in 
my home State. It is a response with 15 agencies--FBI, Secret 
Service, SBA, our small business office, inspector general, the 
post office, the police departments. We are really trying to 
pull together to protect people, because we did this, Nevada 
ranked first amongst all states for the reported number of 
total fraud reports in 2020, with a whopping number of over 
35,000 fraud reports, and so now 18 months into this pandemic, 
what can you--what lessons have we learned from these types of 
task forces that we can report to other states to help protect 
people?
    Chairman Casey. Just for the information of the Senator, 
because we have got a vote, I just want to make sure we--
    Senator Rosen. Okay. We will take it off the record. Thank 
you.
    Chairman Casey. If we can do that in writing, that would be 
better.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you.
    Chairman Casey. Thank you, Senator Rosen, for coming back 
to the hearing and being with us. Now Senator Kelly.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Greisman, I wanted to follow-up on Senator Blumenthal's 
question about robocalls. Arizona ranked first in complaints to 
the FTC about the Do Not Call Registry or the Do Not Call List. 
Arizonans are getting these calls all hours of the day. Some 
folks are getting hundreds of calls in a week. Nobody can blame 
Arizonans for being frustrated about this. I think we all are.
    There has been a fair amount of activity in the courts this 
year related to the TCPA, the Telephone Consumer Protection 
Act. Could you give us an update where things stand, penalties, 
maybe an example of a specific case, and what Congress can or 
should do in order to better our constituents?
    Ms. Greisman. Senator Kelly, obviously, robocalls, unwanted 
calls, whether live or prerecorded, are a significant consumer 
protection issue. Each month, the FTC is receiving some 450,000 
complaints from consumers about unwanted calls. Typically, 68 
percent of them relate to robocalls.
    FTC has a vital, vibrant law enforcement program combating 
unwanted telemarketing calls. We recently settled with a cruise 
line, Grand Bahamas, just earlier this week, involving millions 
and millions of unwanted calls. We brought some 150 law 
enforcement actions and coordinated with all of our State 
partners, including Arizona. Both in terms of law enforcement 
and consumer outreach, it is a significant part of the work 
that we do.
    Senator Kelly. Do you know, what is the rate of robocalls? 
The number that consumers are receiving, has it been lately 
trending up or down?
    Ms. Greisman. In what has been reported to us, it has held 
pretty stable at about 450,000 a month. What we are seeing are 
the call-blocking technologies are working. Recently, STIR/
SHAKEN been deployed among the larger carriers. Senator 
Blumenthal mentioned this; it took effect just in June of this 
year. Obviously, a lot of issues remain with the smaller VoIP 
service providers that Senator Blumenthal also talked about.
    We sued a number of them. Our State partners sued a number 
of them. Our DOJ has sued them. There is significant law 
enforcement work to tamp down on these unwanted calls.
    We are not there. There is no question about that. I assure 
you we are hard on the issue.
    Senator Kelly. Well, please let us know if there is 
anything you need from Congress here to make your job easier.
    Thank you, and I yield back the remainder of my time.
    Chairman Casey. Thank you, Senator Kelly.
    In light of the fact the vote is now into overtime, I think 
we have to close right now, but I will be submitting a 
statement for the record as I understand Ranking Member Scott 
will as well.
    Chairman Casey. Let me just say this for the record, two 
things: Number one, we want to thank our witnesses for the 
testimony they brought to us today on these terrible scams and 
ways we can prevent them. For the record, if any Senator has 
additional questions for witnesses or statements to be added, 
the hearing record will be open for seven days until Thursday, 
September 30.
    Chairman Casey. Thank you all for being here. We are 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:20 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

                 CLOSING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                 ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., CHAIRMAN

    Thank you to all the witnesses for testifying today. A 
special thank you to Ms. Kleinert for sharing your experience 
with us. Your powerful story is a reminder that we must keep 
fighting to prevent these predatory schemes and bring these 
criminals to justice.
    No one should have to go through what Ms. Kleinert has been 
through. No one should experience the shame and loss that comes 
with having been exploited by a criminal. In Congress, we have 
a sacred duty to protect seniors against these criminals.
    Again, I am pleased that today the Aging Committee is 
releasing our 2021 Fraud Book, which will arm older Americans 
with the information they need to protect themselves from 
scammers.
    We know even more work needs to be done. That starts with 
putting the bipartisan Stop Senior Scams Act, S. 337, on 
President Biden's desk. I'll keep fighting to pass this 
important bill.
    Thank you.

                 CLOSING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                   TIM SCOTT, RANKING MEMBER

    Thank you Chairman Casey. Thank you to our witnesses. Being 
aware and staying vigilant is the best way to protect yourself 
from frauds and scams. One way to protect the seniors in your 
life is to check in on them. Stay connected to your parents, 
grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbors, and friends, especially 
during COVID lockdowns.
    In 2020, more than 1,300 South Carolinians aged 60 and 
older fell victim to frauds, losing nearly $10 million. By 
working together, we can help older Americans make informed 
decisions. COVID-19 has made it harder to stay connected.
    Now, more than ever, we have got to support one another. We 
know that in-person meetings allow friends and family members 
to see changes in a person's behavior that serve as red flags.
    I want to thank Vee Daniel for her time today, her powerful 
testimony, and her service in supporting seniors across South 
Carolina. The Better Business Bureau Serving Upstate South 
Carolina is positively influencing the lives of so many seniors 
and their loved ones. Perceptive seniors are informed consumers 
who can spot and stop con artists. It is vital that we continue 
to raise awareness of these scams and advocate on behalf of our 
seniors.
    Thank you Chairman Casey. It has been such a long-standing 
tradition of the Aging Committee to highlight ways to fight 
against frauds and scams, and I'm humbled to do this work with 
you.
    I yield back. 
      
      
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                      Prepared Witness Statements

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                 Questions and Responses for the Record

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                  Additional Statements for the Record

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