[Senate Hearing 117-457]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. HRG. 117-457
PENDING LEGISLATION
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
on
S. 1229 S. 1874 S. 2887
S. 1269 S. 2258 S. 3264
S. 1616 S. 2886 S. 3266
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DECEMBER 2, 2021
----------
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
46-203 WASHINGTON : 2023
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COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
Renae Black, Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
Bryan Petit, Senior Professional Staff Member
Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
James Willson, Republican Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West
Virginia....................................................... 1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
Wyoming........................................................ 2
Heinrich, Hon. Martin, a U.S. Senator from New Mexico............ 3
Cortez Masto, Hon. Catherine, a U.S. Senator from Nevada......... 4
King, Hon. Angus S., a U.S. Senator from Maine................... 4
Lujan, Hon. Ben Ray, a U.S. Senator from New Mexico.............. 5
WITNESSES
French, Chris, Deputy Chief, National Forest System, Forest
Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture........................ 6
Lambrecht, Mark, Assistant Director, National Conservation Lands
and Community Partnerships, Bureau of Land Management, U.S.
Department of the Interior; Accompanied by Reginald Chapple,
Acting Assistant Director of Partnerships and Civic Engagement,
National Park Service.......................................... 19
Turner, Jessica (Wahl), President, Outdoor Recreation Roundtable. 31
Ferguson, Fred, Vice President, Public Affairs and
Communications, Vista Outdoor.................................. 37
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Access Fund:
Letter for the Record........................................ 99
Albert, Samuel:
Letter for the Record........................................ 102
Alexander, Jared:
Letter for the Record........................................ 103
America Outdoors Association et al.:
Statement for the Record..................................... 104
American Alpine Club:
Letter for the Record........................................ 112
American Alpine Institute:
Letter for the Record........................................ 116
American Mountain Guides Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 119
American Sportfishing Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 126
American Whitewater:
Letter for the Record........................................ 130
Angell, Matt:
Letter for the Record........................................ 143
Appalachian Trail Conservancy:
Letter for the Record........................................ 144
Letter to Senators King and Daines, dated July 27, 2021...... 149
Avid4 Adventure:
Letter for the Record........................................ 153
Back Country Horsemen of America:
Letter for the Record........................................ 155
Backcountry Hunters & Anglers:
Letter for the Record........................................ 158
Barrasso, Hon. John:
Opening Statement............................................ 2
Beres, Thomas:
Letter for the Record........................................ 160
Bernhoft, Erik:
Letter for the Record........................................ 161
Bolen, Jacob:
Letter for the Record........................................ 162
Bonanno, Anthony:
Letter for the Record........................................ 163
Brooks, Sarah K.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 164
Brown, Christopher:
Letter for the Record........................................ 165
Caldwell, Chuck:
Letter for the Record........................................ 166
Cammarata, Tony:
Letter for the Record........................................ 167
Carfagno, Michelle:
Letter for the Record........................................ 168
Carlson, Michael:
Letter for the Record........................................ 169
Carren, Claire:
Letter for the Record........................................ 170
Cartwright, Deborah:
Letter for the Record........................................ 171
Cartwright, Jessica:
Letter for the Record........................................ 172
Catto, John:
Letter for the Record........................................ 173
Clapp, Christine:
Letter for the Record........................................ 174
Coalition for Outdoor Access:
Letter for the Record........................................ 175
Coffman, Hazel:
Letter for the Record........................................ 181
Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation:
Letter for the Record........................................ 182
Conley, David C.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 184
Connell, Christine:
Letter for the Record........................................ 185
Cortez Masto, Hon. Catherine:
Opening Statement............................................ 4
Cross, Andrew:
Letter for the Record........................................ 186
DeCoster-Weisheit, Susette:
Letter for the Record........................................ 187
Dexel, Levi:
Letter for the Record........................................ 188
Diegel, Paul:
Letter for the Record........................................ 189
Dotson, Mackenzie:
Letter for the Record........................................ 190
Dowsley, Felix:
Letter for the Record........................................ 191
Dunn, Malcolm:
Letter for the Record........................................ 192
Dyer, Austin:
Letter for the Record........................................ 193
Edwards, Alan:
Letter for the Record........................................ 194
Ferguson, Fred:
Opening Statement............................................ 37
Written Testimony............................................ 39
Fiore, Anne:
Letter for the Record........................................ 195
Fontneau, Bruce:
Letter for the Record........................................ 196
French, Chris:
Opening Statement............................................ 6
Written Testimony............................................ 8
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 66
Gayle, Wanda:
Letter for the Record........................................ 197
Gerbers, Kellie:
Letter for the Record........................................ 198
Gryder, Teresa:
Letter for the Record........................................ 199
Hackett, Jan:
Letter for the Record........................................ 201
Hancock, Julie:
Letter for the Record........................................ 202
Hayes, Judy:
Letter for the Record........................................ 203
Heinrich, Hon. Martin:
Opening Statement............................................ 3
Hills, Bruce:
Letter for the Record........................................ 204
Hoffman, Dana:
Letter for the Record........................................ 205
Holt, Elias Zane:
Letter for the Record........................................ 206
Huey, Robert:
Letter for the Record........................................ 207
Hut, Martha:
Letter for the Record........................................ 208
International Mountain Bicycling Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 209
Jessup, Kyle:
Letter for the Record........................................ 212
Johnson, M. David:
Letter for the Record........................................ 213
Jorgensen, Michael:
Letter for the Record........................................ 214
Junck, Emily:
Letter for the Record........................................ 215
Kaiser, Joe:
Letter for the Record........................................ 216
Kells, Kerry:
Letter for the Record........................................ 217
Kentch, Sally:
Letter for the Record........................................ 218
King, Jr., Hon. Angus S.:
Opening Statement............................................ 4
Kosmicki, Mary:
Letter for the Record........................................ 219
Kretzmann, Douglas:
Letter for the Record........................................ 220
Lambrecht, Mark:
Opening Statement............................................ 19
Written Testimony............................................ 21
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 91
Langlois, Kevin:
Letter for the Record........................................ 221
Lardy, Pete:
Letter for the Record........................................ 222
Law, Lynda S.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 223
Lee, Renee:
Letter for the Record........................................ 224
Light, Jenni:
Letter for the Record........................................ 225
Lips, Elliott:
Letter for the Record........................................ 226
Lubeck, Andrea:
Letter for the Record........................................ 227
Lujan, Hon. Ben Ray:
Opening Statement............................................ 5
Lusher, Colin:
Letter for the Record........................................ 228
Maclennan, David W.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 229
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
Mandler, Bill:
Letter for the Record........................................ 231
Marine Retailers Association of the Americas:
Letter for the Record........................................ 232
McBride, Dan and Samantha:
Letter for the Record........................................ 234
McClarty, Michael:
Letter for the Record........................................ 235
McDaniel, Scott:
Letter for the Record........................................ 236
McMurray, Daniel P.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 237
McNeily, Alex:
Letter for the Record........................................ 238
Meyer, Denise:
Letter for the Record........................................ 239
Minard, Mick:
Letter for the Record........................................ 240
Mletschnig, John:
Letter for the Record........................................ 241
Moline, Tyler:
Letter for the Record........................................ 242
Motorcycle Industry Council et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 243
(The) Mountaineers:
Letter for the Record........................................ 245
National Association of State Outdoor Recreation Liaison
Officers:
Letter for the Record........................................ 249
National Forest Recreation Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 250
National Marine Manufacturers Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 252
National Outdoor Leadership School:
Letter for the Record........................................ 255
National Parks Conservation Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 259
Nickle, Ross:
Letter for the Record........................................ 261
Nuelle, James:
Letter for the Record........................................ 262
Oatman, David:
Letter for the Record........................................ 263
Orr, Nancy:
Letter for the Record........................................ 264
Outdoor Alliance:
Letter for the Record........................................ 265
Outdoor Industry Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 281
Parker, Robert:
Letter for the Record........................................ 283
PeopleForBikes Coalition:
Letter for the Record........................................ 284
Pilarski, Andrew:
Letter for the Record........................................ 285
Pine, Jeff:
Letter for the Record........................................ 286
REI Co-op:
Letter for the Record........................................ 287
River Runners for Wilderness:
Letter for the Record........................................ 289
Rivers, William:
Letter for the Record........................................ 294
Rose, Peter:
Letter for the Record........................................ 295
Rossiter, Kel:
Letter for the Record........................................ 296
Rudd, Tyler:
Letter for the Record........................................ 297
RV Industry Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 298
Sanders, Gordon:
Letter for the Record........................................ 301
Schiller, Chris:
Letter for the Record........................................ 302
Scotter, Alicia:
Letter for the Record........................................ 303
Shepherd, Sarah:
Letter for the Record........................................ 304
Slusser, Richard:
Letter for the Record........................................ 306
Smallwood, Amy:
Letter for the Record........................................ 307
Sol, Laura:
Letter for the Record........................................ 308
Starr, Jerry:
Letter for the Record........................................ 309
Stuller, Craig:
Letter for the Record........................................ 310
Sustainable Trails Coalition:
Letter for the Record........................................ 312
Thomas, John and Cindy:
Letter for the Record in Support of S. 1229.................. 316
Letter for the Record in Support of S. 1874.................. 318
Thomas, Tim:
Letter for the Record........................................ 315
Triolo, Phil:
Letter for the Record........................................ 320
Trotter, Tim:
Letter for the Record........................................ 321
Turner, Daniel:
Letter for the Record........................................ 322
Turner, Jessica (Wahl):
Opening Statement............................................ 31
Written Testimony............................................ 33
Van Siclen, Gini:
Letter for the Record........................................ 323
Volk, Carol:
Letter for the Record........................................ 324
Weisbach, Phil:
Letter for the Record........................................ 325
Wellborn, Michael:
Letter for the Record........................................ 327
Wild Sheep Foundation:
Letter for the Record in Support of S. 2886.................. 335
Letter for the Record in Support of S. 1616.................. 336
Wilder, Irena:
Letter for the Record........................................ 337
(The) Wilderness Society:
Letter for the Record........................................ 329
Wookey, Trisha:
Letter for the Record........................................ 338
Wright, Derek R.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 339
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The text for each of the bills that were addressed in this hearing can
be found on the Committee's website at: https://www.energy.senate.gov/
hearings/2021/12/full-committee-hearing-to-consider-legislation
PENDING LEGISLATION
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THURSDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2021
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:06 a.m. in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin
III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III, U.S. SENATOR FROM
WEST VIRGINIA
The Chairman. This morning, we will discuss nine bills
related to outdoor recreation. I want to commend the sponsors
of the bills on today's agenda for exploring innovative ways to
improve outdoor recreation opportunities and for seeking to
help both the public and the businesses that serve them. I am
especially proud to have partnered with Ranking Member Barrasso
on the Outdoor Recreation Act, and I will talk about our bill
in more detail shortly.
But first, I want to acknowledge that we will have Senator
Lujan joining us this morning to speak about his bill, and I
welcome him to the Committee.
Let me begin by saying outdoor recreation has been a
powerful economic driver in states across the country, and West
Virginia is no exception. I have been seeing firsthand the jobs
that the outdoor recreation economy has brought to rural areas
in West Virginia. The outdoor recreation industry generates 1.8
percent of my state's gross domestic product and supports over
18,000 jobs, and almost three percent of our workforce is now
employed in the outdoor recreation sector, having earned $641
million in salaries just last year alone. However, the COVID-19
pandemic has particularly impacted the outdoor recreation
industry. According to a recent Department of Commerce report,
employment rates, generally, across the U.S. dropped five
percent from 2019 to 2020, but outdoor recreation-related
employment decreased 17.1 percent. As we discuss legislation
this morning, I believe that we must keep in mind how the ideas
in these bills can help grow the $374 billion annual
contribution that outdoor recreation makes to the economies in
our rural America.
Now, our Committee has talked at length about making it
easier for people to enjoy our nation's treasures in a
responsible way, as well as the importance of the outdoor
recreation economy. That is exactly the reason why Ranking
Member Barrasso and I introduced the Outdoor Recreation Act.
Our bill enjoys the support of dozens of groups, including the
Outdoor Alliance, the National Shooting Sports Foundation,
local businesses--like Water Stone Outdoors in West Virginia,
and by over 20 national outdoor recreation associations, from
the RV Industry Association to the Motorcycle Industry Council.
The Outdoor Recreation Act authorizes agencies like the Forest
Service and the Department of the Interior to accept money from
the outside organizations that want to invest in outdoor
recreation infrastructure on federal lands. It also contains
proactive measures related to climbing, biking, and target
shooting on federal land. These are common-sense ways to
improve the public's experience as they recreate on public
lands.
All of the bills before the Committee today seek to address
recreation and resource management from the different angles.
Senator Heinrich's bill would assist those leading backpacking
trips on federal land. Senator Hickenlooper's bill would help
to fund parks in urban areas. Senator Wyden's bill proposes to
establish a system of national recreation areas. I will remind
everyone that West Virginia was actually home to the first
national recreation area, designated in 1965. It is the Spruce
Knob-Seneca Rocks National Recreation Area, and is still widely
used. Senator Cortez Masto's bill would help recreation
organizations better serve under-resourced and low-income
communities. Ranking Member Barrasso's bill would help the
hunting community.
The nine bills on today's agenda all have a common theme--
facilitating people's ability to enjoy our public lands while
supporting jobs and local economies. With that, I want to thank
the witnesses for being here today to help us get a better
understanding of the bills before us. Following this hearing,
Ranking Member Barrasso and I, along with our colleagues, will
get to work preparing the bipartisan recreation package that we
can report out of this Committee.
With that, I am going to turn it over to Ranking Member
Barrasso for his opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.
Thanks for holding this important hearing today. Today, we are
discussing a number of bills important to my home state and
other states as well that have an interest in promoting
recreational opportunities and access on public lands. These
include S. 3266, the Outdoor Recreation Act, and I am delighted
to be co-sponsoring it with you, Mr. Chairman.
Our bipartisan legislation is going to increase and improve
outdoor recreation opportunities all across America. It is
going to help modernize public campgrounds. It is going to
establish shooting ranges on federal forests, and it is going
to ensure increased access to America's public lands. The bill
will also leverage private funding to create new recreational
opportunities on our public lands. Wyoming is the home to some
of the most incredible national parks and public lands in the
nation. The Outdoor Recreation Act will help Americans better
enjoy everything that Wyoming has to offer. Our Wyoming
Governor, Mark Gordon, stated that, ``If passed, the bill will
not only support Wyoming's efforts to protect our world-class
waters and lands, but provide residents and visitors with
improved infrastructure and increased recreational
opportunities on Wyoming's federal lands.'' So thanks, Mr.
Chairman, for working with me in a bipartisan way to develop
and introduce this important piece of legislation.
Additionally, I would like to also highlight two other
bills I have introduced for today's hearing that are on the
agenda. The first is S. 1616, the Federal Interior Land Media
Act, or the FILM Act. To keep pace with evolving social media
and changing technology, this legislation modernizes film
permitting on public lands. It gives outdoor enthusiasts the
ability to share their adventures without having to deal with
burdensome red tape. In the 21st century, it simply does not
make sense to make people jump through a gauntlet of
bureaucratic hoops just to film and upload their public land
adventures. The FILM Act fixes this by exempting certain video,
digital, and audio recording activities from unnecessary fees
and arbitrary permitting rules while also ensuring the
protection of our public lands.
I also want to highlight S. 2886, the Cape and Antler
Preservation Enhancement Act--the CAPE Act. In Grand Teton
National Park, non-native mountain goats threaten the
struggling native bighorn sheep herd. Through coordinated
efforts with the National Park Service, volunteers play a major
role in helping to conserve the bighorn sheep by removing the
non-native goats. Current law gives discretion to the Park
Service to donate the meat obtained from these non-native
species during these authorized wildlife management activities,
yet the hide, the horn, and antlers go to waste. The CAPE Act
recognizes conservation efforts by allowing for the donation of
hides and horns to volunteers who help protect our native
bighorn sheep.
Again, Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for having this
important hearing. Recreation and tourism is one of the
cornerstones of my home state's economy. It is also part of
what makes Wyoming a premier travel destination for millions of
visitors from around the world. The pieces of legislation I
have highlighted here today will help ensure Americans can
enjoy more of what Wyoming and our nation has to offer. Thank
you, Mr. Chairman, for working along with me on these important
bills.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
And before we get started with our witnesses' testimonies,
we are going to have some of our Senators speak about their
bills.
And right now, I am going to turn to Senator Heinrich.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH,
U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO
Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman, and I want to thank
both you and Ranking Member Barrasso for holding this hearing.
I want to speak just really briefly about the SOAR Act. This is
really about permit reform, and before I had this job, I used
to do this kind of thing for a living. I took people into the
backcountry for backpacking, for rafting trips, for educational
trips, and I can speak from experience about how difficult the
permitting process is, how burdensome, how Byzantine, and
usually, in many cases, not with a better outcome for the lands
that are used in all of this.
This legislation really seeks to streamline that process to
make it more user-friendly--to make it more flexible,
especially in the face of some of the challenges we have. You
could lose a whole season to a wildfire under current
circumstances, and the current system was just not built to
flexibly respond to some of those huge events. So I look
forward to discussing it more with my colleagues. I want to
thank Senator Capito, who is my primary co-sponsor, and all the
members on this Committee and off on both sides of the aisle
who have co-sponsored this legislation.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Do any other Senators want to make a comment on any of
their bills?
Senator Cortez Masto.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM NEVADA
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I, too, want to thank the
Chairman and Ranking Member for holding this legislative
hearing today. Thank you to all the witnesses for joining.
Really, the importance of this hearing is underscoring the
important access to public lands for all, and that is the
motivation behind my bill and every bill that is on the agenda
today.
S. 1269 is the Environmental Justice in Recreation
Permitting Act. It was actually introduced by Interior
Secretary Haaland last Congress, and it requires the
Secretaries of the Department of the Interior and the
Department of Agriculture to produce an interagency report
regarding the impacts and challenges that the current
recreational permitting process pose on public access to lands
for people in low-income communities, or for communities of
color, or for our tribal and indigenous communities. Clearly,
we are all here today to make sure we open up our public lands
for access to all. And we want to make sure we are tearing down
any barriers to those who might not have an opportunity to
enjoy our great outdoors. That is the purpose behind this bill
as well.
So thank you. I look forward to the hearing today.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator King.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ANGUS S. KING,
U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE
Senator King. I just wanted to add my support to the
comments of Senator Heinrich. It may surprise members of this
Committee--because it is outdoor recreation, we often think of
the West. Maine is the third-ranked state, as it has the third
highest portion of our GDP coming from outdoor recreation of
any state in the country. Acadia National Park, this year, had
four million visitors, up from a record of 3.7 several years
ago. And it is an incredible part of our economy.
Unfortunately, during the pandemic, we lost 24 percent of
our jobs in outdoor recreation. So I think it is so important.
I am a co-sponsor of the Simplifying Outdoor Access for
Recreation Act.
Also, I wanted to commend the Outdoors for All Act, of
which I am also a co-sponsor, because park resources are not
equitably distributed, and there are millions of Americans who
really do not have access to outdoor recreation areas, and that
bill is about encouraging a program within the National Park
Service providing partnerships with local park facilities.
So this is a very important hearing. I commend the
Committee for taking this on. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Now we have Senator Lujan for an introduction of his bill.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BEN RAY LUJAN,
U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO
Senator Lujan. Good morning, everyone. I want to thank the
Chairman and the Ranking Member, Mr. Barrasso, for holding this
hearing on a range of important bills, including my bipartisan
Biking on Long Distance Trails Act. I also want to thank co-
sponsors and colleagues that I worked with on this bill,
Senator Cramer, Senator Heinrich, as well as Chairman Manchin
and Ranking Member Barrasso.
New Mexico is blessed to have extraordinary mountain ranges
and scenic views with incredible trails to bike and explore.
When I am back home, I have always enjoyed getting on my
mountain bike to explore New Mexico's beautiful landscapes. In
addition to mountain biking, these trails also provide a boost
to our local economy. We have seen increases in opportunities
throughout the West. In New Mexico, New Mexico's outdoor
economy accounts for over 35,000 jobs and $1.2 billion in
wages. States across the country, like North Dakota, West
Virginia, and Wyoming all have rich landscapes that offer
incredible opportunities for mountain biking and the economic
boost that it provides. This bipartisan legislation will use
the millions of acres of federal lands that have gone untapped
and will identify bike trails that are more accessible and safe
all across America. This bill would allow the Department of the
Interior to pinpoint opportunities to develop or complete long-
distance bike trails as well as allow the Department to promote
these exciting opportunities to the American people. As
mountain biking's popularity continues to increase, this
legislation will make these outdoor spaces more accessible to
Americans and bolster outdoor economies nationwide.
Again, I want to thank the leadership on the Committee. I
also want to thank the staff for their vision on what they put
together here. I am excited about this, and while I may not be
able to trek all the way from New Mexico up to North Dakota,
once we get a trail put in place, I will do segments of it, and
I look forward to inviting all of our friends to join us after
we get that done.
Thank you again to the staff and to the Chair and to the
Ranking Member for their work on this important package.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senators, I appreciate that.
Now we are going to turn to our panel.
We have with us today Deputy Chief Chris French from the
Forest Service.
We have Mr. Mark Lambrecht from the Department of the
Interior's Bureau of Land Management.
We have Ms. Jess Turner, Executive Director of the Outdoor
Recreation Roundtable.
And we have Mr. Fred Ferguson, Vice President of Vista
Outdoors.
Now we are going to Mr. French for his opening statement.
STATEMENT OF CHRIS FRENCH, DEPUTY CHIEF, NATIONAL FOREST
SYSTEM, USDA FOREST SERVICE
Mr. French. Good morning Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member
Barrasso, and members of the Committee. Thanks for the
opportunity to provide the perspective of the USDA on these
public land bills that are under consideration today. I
appreciate Congress's work to help us provide more efficient
and more effective delivery of approaches to connecting people
with their public lands. Delivering high-quality recreation
experiences is a key focus of this Administration and our
leadership in the agency. Outdoor recreation is a powerful
driver of local and national economies by providing jobs and
revenue from goods, services, and tourism. Cities and towns
across the country are tapping the business of outdoor
recreation--for good reason. They recognize that outdoor
recreation and open spaces are key ingredients to healthy
communities, a high quality of life, and the ability of a
community to attract and sustain businesses and families.
Recreation is the largest economic output of our National
Forest System. It is the single greatest driver of connecting
the American people to our national forests and grasslands. In
fact, recreation, hunting, fishing, and wildlife viewing,
together, sustain more jobs than any other activity on or in
our national forests and grasslands. Like others, last year we
experienced record-setting, unprecedented visitation levels to
our National Forest System lands--168 million visitors with 18
million new visitors in one year, and change. As the agency has
driven more resources to address our wildfire crisis, our
ability and focus on delivering this premier program is not
meeting the current public demand. Therefore, Congressional
action has been helpful in helping us, such as those bills
being discussed today. One example I might give of a great
success has been the Great American Outdoors Act, which has
been critical to address our nearly $6 billion in
infrastructure deferred maintenance backlog. In the last three
years, we have addressed nearly 500 recreation sites, 106 water
systems, 99 trail bridges, and other public-facing facilities.
Our program is huge. We manage more than 25,000 recreation
sites, 14,000 bathrooms, 160,000 miles of hiking trails,
400,000 miles of forest roads, 22 national recreation areas,
122 wild and scenic rivers, 60 percent of all the downhill
skiing occurs under permit on 122 sites on National Forest
System lands, and we oversee and manage nearly 30,000 special-
use permits for recreation businesses that provide for river
rafting, horseback riding, and other outfitter guide services.
All of this totals nearly $13.5 billion in domestic product and
over 160,000 jobs. To support access to our national forests,
we believe it is critically important to identify barriers
impacting environmental justice communities and permit holders
when trying to enjoy those public lands. We therefore support
the intent of S. 1269, and would like to work with the
Committee to ensure the language is drafted in a way that
supports successful implementation.
Additionally, we really welcome tools such as those
proposed in S. 3266, the Outdoor Recreation Act, that assist us
in building back better to undertake more robust recreation
planning, partnerships, conservation finance agreements, and
improve our infrastructure. We support the overall goals of the
bill, and we look forward to working with the Committee and its
sponsors to ensure those goals can be achieved and do not
duplicate or add burden to some of our current planning
processes.
The USDA is supportive of identifying and promoting long-
distance biking opportunities on National Forest System lands
such as those identified in S. 3264, the BOLT Act. We welcome
the opportunity to discuss the biking opportunities and trail
designation authorities on National Forest System lands with
the Committee and the bill sponsor and, if desired, to work on
technical improvements with the bill.
As I said, we administer over 30,000 recreation special-use
authorizations for activities that generate nearly $2 billion
for their holders. We support the goals and provisions that aim
to streamline and improve those processes. S. 1229, the SOAR
Act, and S. 1874, the Recreation Not Red Tape Act, address
those. We have some concerns about the liability and cost
recovery provisions and would like to work with the Committee
to amend the language, but overall, we support the goals and
intent of the bills. S. 1874 also includes provisions to
improve veterans' access to the outdoors, provide new planning
and management requirements for national recreation areas,
promote volunteerism to enhance recreational access, and
establish an interagency trail management plan. We are
supportive, generally, of these goals and provisions and would
like to continue to work with the Committee.
Finally, S. 1616, the FILM Act, directs the USDA not to
require a permit or land-use fee for commercial filming if
certain conditions are met. There is pending litigation
relevant to this issue, and USDA would like to work with the
Committee and bill sponsor on this issue once a decision is
rendered in that case.
That concludes my remarks, and I appreciate the time this
morning. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. French follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you.
Now we are going to hear from Mr. Mark Lambrecht.
STATEMENT OF MARK LAMBRECHT, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, NATIONAL
CONSERVATION LANDS AND COMMUNITY PARTNERSHIPS, BUREAU OF LAND
MANAGEMENT; ACCOMPANIED BY REGINALD CHAPPLE, ACTING ASSISTANT
DIRECTOR OF PARTNERSHIPS AND CIVIC ENGAGEMENT, NATIONAL PARK
SERVICE
Mr. Lambrecht. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso,
and members of the Committee, my name is Mark Lambrecht. I am
Assistant Director for National Conservation Lands for the
Bureau of Land Management. It is my privilege to be with you
this morning to testify on behalf of S. 3266, the Outdoor
Recreation Act; S. 1229, the Simplifying Outdoor Access for
Recreation Act; S. 1874, the Recreation Not Red Tape Act; S.
1269, a bill concerning environmental justice and recreation
permitting; and S. 3264, the Biking on Long-Distance Trails
Act. The BLM supports the overall goals of these bills and
looks forward to working with the sponsors and the Committee on
them further.
I am also pleased to be accompanied today by Reginald
Chapple, Acting Assistant Director of Partnerships and Civic
Engagement for the National Park Service, who is available to
answer any questions on S. 1616, the Federal Interior Land
Media Act; S. 2258, the Parks, Jobs, and Equity Act; S. 2886,
the Cape and Antler Preservation Enhancement Act; and S. 2887,
the Outdoors for All Act.
Increasing public access to the outdoors for all people and
offering opportunities to fully enjoy our nation's public
lands, including for communities that have disproportionately
less access to nature, is an important priority for Secretary
Haaland. Additionally, President Biden's Call to Action in
Executive Order 14008, tackling the climate crisis at home and
abroad, supports improving access to recreation, revitalizing
local economies, creating opportunities for underrepresented
communities, and protecting our national treasures. The BLM is
one of several land management agencies within the Department
offering tremendous outdoor recreation opportunities on our
nation's shared public lands. BLM-managed public lands host a
remarkable variety of recreational opportunities, and they
supported more than 73 million recreational visits last year,
an increase of 3 million from 2019.
I will now briefly touch on the bills addressed in my
written testimony.
S. 3266 proposes to modernize and improve outdoor
recreation on federal lands. The BLM appreciates the sponsor's
interests in finding innovative ways to modernize facilities
and meet the growing demand for outdoor recreation
opportunities.
S. 1229, the SOAR Act, aims to improve the process and
reduce the cost of applying for and administering recreation
permits and authorizes single joint permits for multi-
jurisdictional trips across federal lands. The Department
supports efforts to improve the process for recreation permits
as we continue to pursue opportunities to facilitate increased
recreational access for all Americans, especially underserved
communities.
S. 1874 contains substantially similar provisions on
recreation permits to those in S. 1229. Additional provisions
of S. 1874 address access to public lands for recreation, job
opportunities for veterans at federal land management agencies,
and establishment of a national recreation area system and a
trail management provision. The Department strongly supports
expanding opportunities for our military families and veterans,
and we look forward to working with the sponsors on other
provisions.
S. 1269 requires the Department to submit a report to
Congress on the estimated use of recreation permits by
recreation service providers serving environmental justice
communities. The Department strongly supports the goal of
promoting equitable use of public lands by all Americans,
especially communities of color, low-
income communities, and rural and indigenous communities that
have long suffered disproportionate and cumulative harm from
air and water pollution and toxic sites.
S. 3264 requires the Department to identify no less than 10
existing long-distance bike trails and 10 areas with potential
for future long-distance bike trails. The Department supports
the goals of establishing additional opportunities for biking
on federal lands.
In conclusion, the BLM appreciates the Committee's effort
to promote recreational use of public lands. I appreciate the
opportunity to testify today, and I would be happy to answer
any questions you may have on the BLM-related bills. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Lambrecht follows:]
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The Chairman. Thank you, sir, I appreciate it.
Now we have Ms. Turner.
STATEMENT OF JESSICA (WAHL) TURNER, PRESIDENT, OUTDOOR
RECREATION ROUNDTABLE
Ms. Turner. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso, and
members of the Committee, on behalf of the outdoor recreation
business community I want to thank you for this hearing on
impactful bills that support outdoor recreation for all
Americans and the businesses and communities that rely on a
strong outdoor recreation economy.
The Outdoor Recreation Roundtable (ORR) is the nation's
leading coalition of outdoor recreation associations, now
totaling 35 national associations, representing over 110,000
American outdoor businesses that cover the full spectrum of
recreation activities. Prior to the pandemic, at a time of
unprecedented economic growth, we were growing faster than the
economy as a whole in every indicator, generating $788 billion
in economic activity and 5.2 million jobs. This day is a long
time coming, as recreation has grown in popularity and
importance, especially over the past few years, not just as an
economic driver in all corners of the country, but as a
mechanism for mental, physical, and societal health.
However, even with record-breaking sales and participation
across the activity spectrum, there are challenges to consider.
How do we manage for more visitors while ensuring the quality
of the experience and the health of our public lands and
waters? Our sector lost billions in revenue due to canceled
trips and travel from domestic and international visitors over
the past year. How do we support small businesses and rural
communities still suffering from these COVID-19 losses? How do
we ensure communities have the assistance they need to support
sustainable outdoor recreation while also advancing equitable
access, from the backcountry to the backyard? Swift passage of
the bills being discussed today will drive pragmatic solutions
to these challenges forward by updating our recreation policies
for 21st century demands. All of the bills, and particularly
the following provisions, will allow our industry to excel at
what we do best--support healthy people, healthy places,
healthy communities, and healthy economies.
The SOAR Act will streamline the permitting process for
guides and outfitters, nonprofits, and educational
institutions. These entities have been burdened for years by a
complex, costly, and duplicative permitting system that too
often does not authorize new permits, new activities, account
for changes in visitor behavior or the growing impacts of
climate change, closures due to flood, droughts, and wildfire.
The Recreation Not Red Tape Act adds tools to the federal
agencies' toolbox to improve and modernize recreation assets
and management across the board. Its important provisions
include establishing online payments for passes, engaging the
private sector in stewardship, strengthening interagency
coordination, and encouraging land managers to account for
recreation in their planning efforts.
The Outdoor Recreation Act unlocks private funding for
recreation partnerships. It also supports gateway communities
with new training programs and technical assistance to plan for
sustainable economies and enhance recreation opportunities in
shoulder seasons. Importantly, the Outdoor Recreation Act also
improves visitor data collection and utilization by
establishing a uniform system for accurate, real-time data
across all of the agencies. This would allow the public to make
informed decisions about the type of experience they want to
have. They would know if an entrance to a park was at capacity
before they got to the site and where else they could go for a
similar amenity or experience. Land managers would also have
more data to manage resources and direct funding appropriately.
As we look at the overcrowding of some sites, we must also
recognize that last year, as travel was restricted and
residents were encouraged to stay close to home, more than 100
million people were not within 10 minutes of a green space or a
park. With more people heading outside, more equitable access
and infrastructure is needed. We appreciate the consideration
of the Outdoors for All Act; the Park, Jobs, and Equity Act;
and the Environmental Justice in Recreation Permitting Act, so
everyone can reap the benefits of time spent outside.
There has never been a better time to consider a first-ever
recreation package combining the critical policy management
provisions before us today and others, like SHRED (Ski Hill
Resources for Economic Development Act) and MAPLand
(Modernizing Access to Public Land Act), to truly harness the
surge in outdoor recreation. Through these important policy
updates, we can help Americans get outside in their communities
or on iconic lands while protecting our natural resources and
revitalizing not just our economy, but also our collective
spirit. Thank you for holding this important hearing, and
please consider ORR and our many member partners in advancing
these bills through the legislative process. This would truly
be a legacy achievement for the Committee and the American
public. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Turner follows:]
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Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Thank you, Ms. Turner.
Mr. Ferguson.
STATEMENT OF FRED FERGUSON, VICE PRESIDENT,
PUBLIC AFFAIRS AND COMMUNICATIONS, VISTA OUTDOOR
Mr. Ferguson. Good morning Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member
Barrasso, and members of the Committee. My name is Fred
Ferguson, and I am Vice President of Public Affairs and
Communications for Vista Outdoor.
Vista Outdoor is a leading manufacturer and designer of
outdoor recreation gear. We are headquartered in Anoka,
Minnesota, and employ more than 6,000 people across 16 states
and Puerto Rico. We serve our consumers through a portfolio of
38 iconic brands, which include CamelBak, Bell Helmets,
Remington ammunition and accessories, and Bushnell Golf, among
many others. We are a mission-driven company founded on the
belief that when we bring the world outside, we bring it closer
together.
In a country that is increasingly divided along political
lines, Vista Outdoor is committed to finding common ground for
all outdoor enthusiasts, no matter their affiliation or
activity of choice. The outdoors is for all Americans. This
mindset drives action across our entire business, from our
corporate foundation, which recently awarded 10 grants to
outdoor non-profits, to our sustainability program, which was
recognized by Investor's Business Daily as the third best in
the consumer goods category, just behind Nike. We are the
largest contributor to conservation through the Pittman-
Robertson Act. Since Vista Outdoor was created, we have proudly
contributed nearly $500 million under Pittman-Robertson. And
CamelBak, who for decades has been at the forefront of ending
single-use plastics in water bottles, is leading an effort to
expand water refilling stations on federal lands in the hopes
of increasing access to hydration while also reducing waste in
our lands and waterways.
The time to invest in the outdoors is now. Millions of
people ventured outdoors over the past 20 months. Some
reconnected with their favorite pastimes, such as hunting or
biking, while others engaged in recreational activity for the
first time, including more than 10 million first-time campers.
This resurgence in outdoor activity has continued in 2021, and
it is incumbent upon leaders in the private and public sectors
to maintain the momentum and expand the outdoor infrastructure
ecosystem. Vista Outdoor has been leading by example. We have
invested more than $500 million into new businesses. We have
launched our foundation, and we have taken care of our
employees by expanding benefits while also establishing an
employee assistance fund.
The Committee's actions show that Congress is serious about
the outdoors as well. The nine bills under consideration
advance common-ground goals that we support, including expanded
access, greater diversity, and better management of our public
lands. We support each of the bills under consideration, and in
the interest of time, I will highlight just a few.
We support the Simplifying Outdoor Access for Recreation
Act--the SOAR Act. Guides and outfitters are some of the best
advocates for public lands, as Senator Heinrich knows, and
elevating their role in our recreation system is well-timed and
well-deserved. One provision we have highlighted for Committee
staff relates to permits for guided bike trips. In our
experience, the new normal for guided trips includes a mix of
traditional and e-bike uses. We think final language should
reflect this new reality and ensure that traditional bikes and
e-bikes operate under a single permit.
We support the Outdoors for All Act and the codification of
the Outdoor Recreation Legacy Partnership Program. Enactment of
this legislation will have the dual effect of bringing more
people outdoors while also breaking down barriers and using the
outdoors as a force for change.
We support the FILM Act. We need to recruit and activate
the next generation of outdoor recreation champions, and the
FILM Act will help us to get there.
We support the Outdoor Recreation Act, and I will discuss
two key provisions. First, the gateway community planning
provision is needed. National Parks are breaking visitation
records, so gateway community planning is becoming an essential
part of the visitor experience. Second, we support the
provision to authorize the BLM and the Forest Service, in
partnership with local stakeholders, to build additional
recreational shooting ranges on public lands. Recreational
shooting and hunting have grown in popularity during the last
20 months. Expanding range infrastructure will promote safety,
minimize dispersed target shooting, and support wildlife
conservation funding. Target shooting is the leading
contributor to the Pittman-Robertson Trust Fund, so this
provision is a sound investment in the future of conservation.
Again, on behalf of Vista Outdoor and the many stakeholders
of the $689 billion outdoor recreation economy, thank you for
the opportunity to testify, and for the Committee's focus in
getting this outdoor package signed into law.
Thank you, and I yield back.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Ferguson follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman [presiding]. I thank all of you.
We are going to start our questions, and I will start with
all of you on this one. In my opening statement, I said that
the Commerce Department recently released its analysis of the
impacts of outdoor recreation as a whole to the U.S. economy,
and every state is impacted by it. But several years ago, the
Forest Service specifically analyzed the impacts that its
project work and visitation at each national forest has on
local economies. The problem? They have not done it since 2016.
That is the problem. We do not know where we are. So we are
five years down the road and have no idea of the impact, which
may be much more enhanced than what we think it is. Can any of
you comment to that, and what are your intentions as far as
those? Mr. French and Mr. Lambrecht, you have responsibilities
for those areas.
Mr. French. Yes, thank you, Chairman. We are on a five-year
cycle to redo those. We do those for every single forest. They
are due to be revised within the next six months of this year.
It is part of this year's program report.
The Chairman. Mr. Lambrecht.
Mr. Lambrecht. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Barrasso----
The Chairman. You being brand new, you can really kick him
in the butt and get it done quicker, maybe.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Lambrecht. For the BLM, in 2020, recreation activities
provided an estimated impact of $7.7 billion in economic output
and supported 54,000 jobs. So that is the latest data that we
have available, and it is something that we are constantly
tracking. I appreciate the question.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Anybody else want to comment on that?
Ms. Turner.
Ms. Turner. Yes, we definitely appreciate that the agencies
have budget restrictions, and a lot of agency funding,
especially in the Forest Service, has gone to wildfire; but we
do think that there is a better way to have data, especially to
understand the full economic impact across all agencies
simultaneously, using similar models that come out at the same
time of year. I think one of the biggest things is keeping up
with the new users. Climbing is one of those activities that is
growing. Perhaps after the most recent Olympics, it will grow
even more, and right now, the visitor model for the Forest
Service does not even account for climbing.
The Chairman. Do you all share your information or your
concerns, and have the agencies been receptive or have they not
been receptive?
Ms. Turner. I think slightly receptive, but I also think it
is hard to have interagency coordination on something like this
across all agencies and especially since some visitation models
vary so much and agencies report out at different times of
year. So it would be helpful for Congress to----
The Chairman. Well, outdoor recreation is changing so much.
You would like to see the agencies change to get this input so
we could meet the demands of the people.
Mr. Chapple, I think you want to say something.
Mr. Chapple. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Why don't you introduce yourself, sir,
since----
Mr. Chapple. I am Reginald Chapple. I am the Acting
Assistant Director of Partnerships and Civic Engagement for the
National Park Service. That includes rivers, trails, outdoor
recreation, the Land and Water Conservation Fund.
The Chairman. Are you responsible for making it more
friendly so we can all go and enjoy it and not get thrown out?
Mr. Chapple. Yes, sir, that is why I am here----
The Chairman. Good.
Mr. Chapple [continuing]. To have that discussion today,
indeed.
So let me just tell you a little bit about the National
Park Service. We do have a social science directorate that
actually is engaged in research. We know that $41 billion in
visitor spending happened in 2019, and we are continuing to
track that for 2020 and into 2021. We also know that, with
regard to the recreation economy, we generated $21 billion for
the GDP and 1.2 million jobs. So we are continuing to work on
that in the National Park Service to actually bring those
numbers up to date through our natural resource social science
directorate.
The Chairman. Mr. French, this is for you.
Two years ago, the Committee held an oversight hearing on
outdoor recreation during which we discussed a problem related
to the total number of days outfitters and guides can lead
trips on federal land. Specifically, we talked about
reallocating unused user days in permits, so they were not
wasted. Deputy Chief French, as a
follow-up to that discussion after that hearing, I sent you a
question for the record, and in your response to that question,
you said that the National Forest System currently had the
flexibility to reallocate unused days. I see that my colleague
Senator Heinrich's bill on the SOAR Act and Senator Wyden's
bill on Recreation Not Red Tape still contain the provisions
authorizing the Forest Service to reallocate unused visitor
days.
Over two years have passed since the hearing. Is this still
an outstanding issue? We have not heard back from you.
Mr. French. No, we have that authority. We have a process
in place right now where we go through periodically and do
those user reviews and then reallocate those unused days. But
we are working with the Committee as this bill goes forward,
providing technical assistance.
The Chairman. What is the time delay? What is the problem?
I mean, we have been providing money--you have more money
coming in now. Hopefully we are giving you the resources you
need. Nobody is coming to work?
Mr. French. No, I mean, I think on this particular issue,
at the end of the day, it's just the sheer volume of work and
the number of people we have doing it.
The Chairman. Well, people are not coming to work.
Senator Barrasso.
Senator Barrasso. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Ferguson, my bill, the CAPE Act, supports wildlife
management activities that can serve important native wildlife
and accomplishes this by allowing for the donation of the hides
and the horns to the volunteers who help protect our native
species, such as the bighorn sheep population that we have in
Wyoming. The volunteers that participate, they invest a lot of
hours, their own resources, to help conserve our bighorn sheep
population.
Do you agree that allowing the donation of the hide and the
horns to these volunteers does help eliminate needless waste
and kind of incentivizes participation in this conservation
effort?
Mr. Ferguson. We do, sir. You know, culling in National
Park units where hunting is not allowed is a very effective,
efficient, and humane mechanism to manage certain species of
wildlife. You know, we think the CAPE Act is--as written and as
intended--is going to continue to promote the principles of
culling and ensure that it is carried out in the way that
Congress intended, in the way that we all want culling to move
forward.
Senator Barrasso. Ms. Turner and then also to Mr. Ferguson,
you can chime in at the end of this.
Earlier this year, you know, I introduced the FILM Act, had
a lot of input from folks in Wyoming, and this is to address
the permitting scheme that really makes it harder for the
public to record and share their experiences on public lands.
So I think the bill is critical to update the laws and the
regulations that keep pace with advancements that we have in
technology and social media. Do you agree that this is going to
greatly improve access and enjoyment of public lands?
Ms. Turner. Yes, I mean, I think one of the things we are
finding is that the first interaction that many young people,
especially, are having with the outdoors is through social
media and through film, and it is really inspirational for them
to go to those places someday or to learn the activities and
look into those places. It also goes to a general theme that we
are going to hear, hopefully, throughout the morning, which is
the needed staff time and resources that it takes to create
those unnecessary permits. Those could be going to perhaps some
of the other things that we are talking about today. So
creating efficiencies and streamlining processes.
Senator Barrasso. The things that Mr. Chapple mentioned as
well. Great, thank you.
Mr. Ferguson, anything else you want to add on that?
Mr. Ferguson. Yes, I would echo Jessica's comments. We need
the next generation of champions, and we want them to touch,
see, and feel our public lands, but if through digital media we
can inspire them and give, you know, these future champions the
motivation and inspiration to take a trip, I think that's a
win-win.
Senator Barrasso. Great.
Mr. French, our Outdoor Recreation Act is going to
authorize finance partnerships for recreation projects with the
National Forest System, truly, to help nearby communities
become more popular recreation destinations. These partnerships
would significantly leverage private investments, giving
taxpayers a much bigger bang for their buck. My understanding
is that the Forest Service has had some early success with
partnerships like this. I think Wayne National Forest in Ohio
is one. Can you tell a little bit about the success of that
project and how this model could be expanded to other projects?
Mr. French. Yes, you bet. So conservation finance is
something that we have been working on for the last few years
to help us with things like watershed restoration, wildland
fire risk reduction, and recreation infrastructure. And
essentially, we combine the interest of communities, private
companies, and ourselves to collaboratively invest in creating
something earlier than we could do on our own. On the Baileys
Trail project, which is the one on the Wayne National Forest,
that is more than 80 miles of trail systems for mountain bikes
and other users. It is a multi-user type system. We leveraged
nearly $10 million of investments, matched with federal dollars
to create that program. We never would have been able to do it
if that hadn't happened, and it is serving the community well
and attracting increased tourism.
Senator Barrasso. Great.
Mr. Ferguson. And Mr. Barrasso.
Senator Barrasso. Yes, go ahead.
Mr. Ferguson. If I could add, you know, as a private
company, we have just entered into a partnership with the
National Forest Foundation in getting funding to grant projects
on national forests for wildlife restoration, habitat
restoration, and the like. And so I think, from our
perspective, this provision is very attractive and something
that we want to learn more about, to be part of the solutions
that all of us are talking about here today.
Senator Barrasso. And Mr. Ferguson, you know, the Outdoor
Recreation Act also provides a framework to ensure access to
federal lands by increasing opportunities for both motorized
and non-motorized access to our roads and our trails.
Can you elaborate on the importance of ensuring both
motorized and non-motorized access to our federal lands?
Mr. Ferguson. Yes, you know, similar to the FILM Act, you
know, with all the different users of public lands, the
millions of users who have entered the public lands over the
last 20 months, the future champions we hope to activate, there
are a lot of ways to enjoy the public lands, whether it's
mountain biking, hiking, you know, taking a ride on an e-bike,
side-by-sides, four-wheeling. There are 660 million acres of
federal land, and I think we all can agree that we need to have
options and choices for people in how they recreate and how
they enjoy these lands.
Senator Barrasso. Ms. Turner, could I ask you to----
Ms. Turner. Yes, just--I think it's really important to
understand the new consumer. It's not perhaps what--you know,
at least what my parents grew up with, where you're a climber,
and that's all you do.
Senator Barrasso. You mean people like our age?
Ms. Turner. Yes. I wasn't going to say it.
[Laughter.]
Ms. Turner. Or you ride motorcycles and, you know, you're
head-to-toe Harley. Now you're taking your motorcycle to the
climbing crag to get through LA traffic quicker. You're taking
your kayak on your RV. You're taking your fishing pole on your
boat. And so I think the experiential economy--knowing that 74
percent of all Americans want to collect experiences--we just
need to update our management system so that it's acknowledging
that today I might be on a snowmobile, and tomorrow I might be
on skis, and, you know, we need to have land managers and I
think policymakers, you know, coming together to protect public
lands for all activities.
Senator Barrasso. Thanks. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
Mr. French, in your testimony, you said that recreation on
National Forest System lands sustains more private-sector jobs
than any other Forest Service programs and provides the single
largest economic stimulus for many local communities adjacent
to or within national forest lands. I want to ask you to dig in
a little deeper on that and give us a sense of scale. So there
are a number of economic activities on Forest Service lands. We
have the timber program, the grazing program--how do these
things stack up against each other? What portion of the
economic activity that occurs on forest lands today is a result
of the outdoor recreation economy, and how does it compare to
other sectors?
Mr. French. It dwarfs other sectors. Here's what I'll do. I
can give to you, Senator, and for the whole Committee, the
breakdown we do every year on those financial impacts. We also,
getting to Senator Manchin's earlier question, look at that
every five years on every single national forest and what they
produce. But by far, when you look at it, as a comparison, the
outdoor recreation and associated uses is the largest single
driver. I don't have that percentage in my hand, but it dwarfs
almost everything else.
Senator Heinrich. I am not surprised by that, having worked
in the sector myself, but what I have always struggled with is
the experience, at least that I had, and hopefully it's
changing. Does the Forest Service prioritize outdoor recreation
and its economic impacts commensurate with the scale of the
contribution to local economies?
Mr. French. I think so. I'm going to give you a
straightforward answer on that. Yes, I think our intent and our
internal prioritization of where we want to be to do that is
very different from the resources we have to deliver it. And so
we have done it through a lot of efficiencies, but I would say
that our staffing is----
Senator Heinrich. Let me ask you this then.
Mr. French. Yes.
Senator Heinrich. Do you have the same expectation for cost
recovery from those other programs? Look at the grazing
program. Does the grazing program actually cover the cost of
rangeland management for the Forest Service? Do you apply the
same standard of cost recovery to all those programs that you
are asking for outdoor recreation, which is actually creating,
by far, the largest amount of economic activity in those
communities?
Mr. French. Senator, the answer there is that those fees
that we charge for those various other programs--they are
bounded by statute, and so they're not----
Senator Heinrich. So the answer would also be ``no.''
Mr. French. Yes, the answer is ``no.''
Senator Heinrich. Okay.
Mr. French. But that is not really within the discretion of
the agency.
Senator Heinrich. No, I understand that, but my point is we
are not operating on a level playing field. So you are asking
much more--because you have the flexibility to do so--you are
asking much more from outdoor recreation in terms of cost
recovery than you are from any of the other programs.
Mr. French. In some areas.
Senator Heinrich. I want to ask Ms. Turner--talk to me a
little bit about permit reform. Why is it so important? Why is
fixing permitting such a high priority for companies across the
spectrum of this economic sector?
Ms. Turner. I'll try to keep this brief, but I've been
working on this for about a decade, and I appreciate all of
your work on this, too, and your team's work.
Right now, guides and outfitters--thousands of them across
the country--really are sometimes the first entry point for
people to get outside. Not only are they creating those
experiences, they're creating safe experiences. They're
teaching the public how to get out responsibly. They're
creating memorable experiences. They're also the partners with
these agencies on the ground, every day, on the lands and
waters, understanding what's happening there. And permit reform
helps streamline the process to eliminate burdens on both the
private sector and the public sector. It helps with
indemnification. I'm not sure if this is a widely known issue,
but right now you can go to a university, a state university,
and study forestry, and you can't actually get out on the
forest, legally, through permitting, unless we get this
indemnification rule passed.
Senator Heinrich. Because we require indemnification
requirements that are actually prohibited by state law?
Ms. Turner. Correct.
Senator Heinrich. Yes.
Ms. Turner. It will create additional capacity. There are
more users than ever, and they are more diverse, and they are
younger. And a lot of groups want to get out with new affinity
groups that just don't have staff dedicated to creating a
permit. And so we need to make it easier for everyone to access
those. And I'd say last but not least, we are seeing this
evolving consumer, where one day you might be a kayak company
and the next day you realize you need to have stand-up
paddleboards, and you need to go through an entirely new permit
process just to add stand-up paddleboards to your kayak fleet.
I mean, that is a very, very outdated system, and it's not
keeping up with the businesses that need it. It's not keeping
up with what the agencies need to do their jobs well.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Now we have Senator Daines.
Senator Daines. Chairman Manchin, thank you. I want to
begin by thanking the Chairman and the Ranking Member for
holding this hearing on outdoor recreation. It is a topic of
high importance for so many Montanans, including this Montanan
sitting up here today.
Outdoor recreation is truly a fundamental part of our
Montana economy. In fact, a recent Department of Commerce
report found that outdoor recreation accounts for over four
percent of Montana's GDP. That is the highest percentage
nationally of any state. That accounts for over 26,000 jobs in
Montana. But outdoor recreation is more than just a massive
economic driver in Montana. It is also a part of our heritage
and our very way of life that we are proud of back home. In
fact, 98 percent of Montanans say outdoor recreation is
important to their quality of life. I want to talk to those two
percent back home that said it was not, but we are at 98
percent. Eighty-seven percent consider themselves outdoor
recreation enthusiasts. However, overly complex and
bureaucratic permitting processes can make it more difficult to
access our public lands and put a burden on our small
businesses in Montana.
I want to thank Senator Heinrich for his leadership on the
bipartisan SOAR Act, which I am proud to co-sponsor. It aims to
streamline the permitting process for outfitters and guides who
operate on public lands. Because of Montana's checkerboard land
ownership patterns, it is quite common out West that an
outfitting trip will often cross into multiple land agencies--
sometimes in just one day. Since each federal land agency has a
separate permitting process, this means that our guides and
outfitters have to go through multiple departments and
permitting processes just for one trip. This is duplicative. It
is inefficient. It costs our agencies as well as our
outfitters' time and resources and can even impact user
experience as well as--fundamentally--access.
Mr. Lambrecht and Mr. French, how will establishing a one-
stop shop for multi-jurisdictional permits such as these save
agency resources and time and enhance recreational access?
We will start with Mr. Lambrecht.
Mr. Lambrecht. Thank you, Senator Daines, I really
appreciate the question. And I am sure you have talked to a lot
of the same outfitters and guides that I have, and so I have a
really strong understanding of the challenges that they have,
as you mentioned, with the checkerboard of land ownership
pattern in western states. You know, the outfitters and guides
have to secure permits from a BLM district office or from a
Forest Service ranger district, and maybe a state agency, all
for one day. The same is true of a river guide where, say on
the Gunnison River, you might start in a park service situation
and go through BLM or Bureau of Reclamation. So having a one-
stop-shop permitting opportunity for a multi-jurisdictional
trip certainly makes sense.
If we can establish a lead agency and, you know, work with
the sponsor to address certain issues that we might have--
different agencies have different NEPA processes, for example.
So some of those things need to be ironed out, but we believe
we can do it. I think the Bureau of Land Management is ideally
situated to facilitate this process because of a new recreation
and permitting tracking online reporting system that we have
implemented in a pilot process where we now have 38 permits
that we have issued that allows a permittee to apply for and
receive and pay for a permit all online automatically, and we
are able to track that as well.
Senator Daines. Mr. Lambrecht, thank you. That is exactly
what we are hearing as well. So I appreciate your efforts
there, too. I want to let Mr. French have a thought on that as
well.
Mr. French. I agree, and I think the biggest beneficiaries
here are the permittees themselves, the folks coming to get
services from the Federal Government. Anything we can do to
make it more efficient for them, I think, is helpful.
Senator Daines. Ms. Turner, from the outdoor industry
perspective, how would this provision benefit both visitor
experience and small businesses in a place like Montana?
Ms. Turner. Yes, I actually heard from a Montana guide and
outfitter this week, outside of Cooke City, who had this exact
issue--three different permits for a one-day trip. So three
different costs. Three different permit structures, costing the
government time and the permittee time. And, you know, what I
am thinking about a lot is these guides and outfitters that
have suffered greatly from closures during COVID, then COVID
mitigation efforts, then severe wildfire, flood, and drought.
They need a leg-up right now, more so, you know, maybe than
even other segments of our sector, and really improving the
permitting system is the leg-up I think these businesses could
really use.
Senator Daines. We are proud of the fact that the onX app
was developed in Montana, headquartered in Missoula, Montana,
and if those of you who are onX users, sometimes you look at
the map--I was out in the backcountry this past weekend--it is
multicolored, because you see the BLM ground, you see the
national forest ground, you will see the state ground, and you
will see private ground and so forth, and I am hoping, despite
that there are multiple colors there, we could find a
streamlined way, because at the end of the day, when you are on
a trip like that, you want to be able to get through
efficiently as we cut across these various federal agency
pieces of ground.
So thanks, Mr. Chairman.
Senator King [presiding]. On behalf of the Chairman,
Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you to the Chair and
Ranking Member for this important hearing. Thank you also to
the panelists that are here today.
Let me talk a little bit about S. 1269, which is the
Environmental Justice in Recreation Permitting Act that I
introduced. And very briefly, again, it requires DOI and the
Department of Agriculture to produce an interagency report
regarding the challenges that the current recreational
permitting process poses on access to public lands for our
communities of color, for low-income communities, and for
tribal and indigenous communities. I think this bill is a
perfect example of how we can work to address and tear down
barriers to people accessing federal lands, along with the
permitting challenges that we have. That is why I support and I
am a co-sponsor of the SOAR Act as well.
But to the two agencies, let me ask you this--I also
understand there are two Executive Orders that were introduced
by this Administration, and I appreciate your support for S.
1269. Is there anything else that I need to be aware of, Mr.
French or Mr. Lambrecht, with regard to this particular
legislation that you have concerns about, or you would like to
see some corrections?
Mr. French. In terms of the legislation, not that I can
speak of offhand, other than my written comments. I will say
that, under the Executive Orders, we are already seeing things
that maybe weren't there before. And I think a report like this
will be helpful. As an example, one of the issues we see is
that we, as an agency, don't always advertise when new permit
opportunities become available, and they tend to go to the same
permittee over and over again. And so that creates a barrier,
often, for underserved communities, environmental justice
communities, and business owners who are looking for those
things and don't even know they exist. And then if you look at
some of the things that are being tackled in the other two
bills, as we have talked about here, the permitting
requirements are complex, and for a new user, that can be a
barrier itself. And I think we are uncovering pieces like that,
that I think will benefit all users, but will be very, very
helpful in a report like this.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Mr. Lambrecht. Senator Cortez Masto, I appreciate the
question. I just wanted to convey to you, the Bureau of Land
Management is serious about incorporating the serving of
environmental justice communities into our mission and many
program areas. One of the challenges that we see and is
identified in this legislation is identifying exactly where
those environmental justice issues are. I know the
Environmental Protection Agency announced this week that it is
making some progress to try to map those areas, and that would
be helpful information. I think the National Park Service is
making great progress on another program that would help us
identify some of those communities and how we can increase
their participation in our programs and better serve them.
So we have a three-year deadline within the legislation to
report back to Congress on progress in this area, and I expect
we would be able to accommodate that, but would like to have
further discussions with your staff on how we can exactly get
you the information that you are looking for.
Senator Cortez Masto. I appreciate that. Thank you.
And so, Ms. Wahl Turner, in your written testimony, you
touched on some of the economic hardships that, obviously, the
COVID-19 pandemic continues to pose on small outdoor businesses
and the gateway communities that rely on our public lands. In
Nevada, there are many rural towns that serve as gateway
communities. I am wondering if you could please build on your
recommendation for a first-of-its-kind outdoor recreation
package that we are talking about and how the bills being
discussed today can contribute to our recovery efforts as well?
Ms. Turner. Sure, thank you for the question.
We have had a lot of big packages where recreation
legislation is sort of inserted at the last minute, maybe at
the end of a session and where things have all come together.
As a community, there is enough here to merit its own package.
There are so many systems that need reform. There are so many
policies that have not been updated. We can kind of live in a
space where recreation policy can be bipartisan. It can be
bicameral. And we can get it done and have agreement, like we
do here today. And, you know, we need it now more than ever as
we are seeing this surge of visitation. We are seeing
communities that are not prepared for this. We are also seeing
communities that are lacking the visitation they usually have.
So we kind of have both sides of the coin and then the tools
that the agencies need--the new tools, the updated tools--to be
able to help support those communities.
And I appreciate your bill that you introduced as well
because a lot of the new user groups that are getting out and
new businesses that are popping up might not know to go to the
Forest Service district site on page four and look at the
bottom on how to start a permit process. And so I think all of
this goes into not just helping businesses and local
communities, but making sure that everyone has access to these
places. And if we're going to move into a 21st century
recreation economy, we should do it with everyone at the table.
Senator Cortez Masto. Great, thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator King. On behalf of the Chairman, Senator Marshall.
Senator Marshall. Thank you, Chairman.
Our nation is undergoing a mental health crisis. I am as
concerned about mental health as I am the COVID crisis. This
crisis has been exacerbated by shutdowns. Since I have been in
Congress five years, we have thrown, I suppose, $10 or $20
billion at the problems. We have telemedicine. We have new
drugs, more clinics, and I am not sure we have moved the needle
at all. But as a physician, I think getting people to the great
outdoors is a better drug than anything I can prescribe. I am
especially concerned about our youth and their mental health
crisis. This past week I got to teach my grandsons how to shoot
a BB gun and ride a go-kart and how to clean a pheasant. And I
just saw their eyes get this big, right? And it is being in the
outdoors, getting them off of these silly things [the Senator
holds up a cellphone] which do not build your brain at all.
And what I would ask the panel to do is, as you look at
this legislation, what would be the emphasis on youth that you
could build to get youth exposed to it. It is too long of an
answer, but maybe you could write down a few issues.
I want to turn the page to conservation for a second. I
have always said farmers and ranchers were the original
conservationists. Fisherman and hunters were the next
conservationists to the table, and the great thing about
hunters and fishermen and women is that we put our money where
our mouth is. The Pittman-Robertson Act is an 11 percent excise
tax from the sale of shotgun shells and shotguns and guns and
fishing poles. Fred, do fishing poles get taxed as well? I
cannot remember.
Mr. Ferguson. It is a different type of program, but the
same concept, and don't forget archery equipment which----
Senator Marshall. Archery--oh my God, I am a big bow
hunter, so all those things. We put our money where our mouth
is. I had the pleasure of serving on the Wildlife and Parks
board for five years, and seeing how that money was used, like
you mentioned, gun ranges being more and more appropriate and
out there, habitat.
Fred, Vista Outdoor has always been a huge proponent of
using that Pittman-Robertson fund. What are some of the great
things you have seen done with it?
Mr. Ferguson. Yes, I think to your point about the youth
and how do we make this bill what we want it to be, I think the
challenge for all of us is we're making decisions, and we're
creating an outdoor ecosystem for the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years.
And so the decisions that are made today, the policies we're
discussing, it's going to make a difference for that generation
that's coming up, and, in many ways, that's why we're doing
it--of course, we just had a huge resurgence of people into the
system--but we want to retain those people, we also want them
to motivate and inspire their siblings, their kids, and other
people they come into contact with to come try it out as well.
And so I think, you know, viewing this process through the
lens of decades--not just, you know, the next couple months--is
really, really important. I think for Vista Outdoor, one of the
driving principles of our company is when we do well, we can do
good. And during the last two years, we've been able to create
a new corporate foundation. And we're using our dollars to
motivate and activate, you know, diverse users of public lands
to get kids off screens and into the outdoors. And I mentioned
the National Forest Foundation partnership. There's just so
much we can do to take the business success we've had and to
give it back so that, you know, we can inspire and motivate the
next generation.
Senator Marshall. Thank you. Thank you so much.
I want to talk about shortages for a second. I went back to
a family wedding this weekend, and I had not seen my uncle in
over a year. This is my uncle who used to take me hunting and
fishing, and he said ``Roger . . .'' (and I said `oh, boy') ``.
. . I can't get any primers.'' He reloads shotgun shells. He is
kind of the semi-pro shooter. There is an issue in the family
of who is the better shot--him or me, my brother, my dad--and
of course, we know. But he is out of primers. He cannot get
primers.
The shotgun shells that I bought last year for $13 a box
are now $25 a box. You cannot find five or six magnums for a
pheasant load. I could find a few--and this is Walmart, a store
that has access to everything. Typically, we can buy it by the
case. And I could not find any pheasant load this year. What is
going on? What is causing the shortages?
Mr. Ferguson. Yes, sir. So there are a couple of factors at
play. You know, one, it's the new users that have entered the
shooting sports. So during the last two years, there have been
13 million new, first-time participants in the shooting sports.
And, you know, that's a significant number. And one of the
things we've noticed is those new users, they're more diverse.
Forty percent of those users are women and people of color.
They're more active. So the past trends of purchasing to
stockpile have gone out the door. People are purchasing to
consume. And you have seen things like hunting really rise in
popularity. It's socially distanced. People have had more free
time. The field-to-table movement is real, driven by, you know,
popular culture like the MeatEater podcast and his Netflix
show.
You know, there's also been a major change in the market,
in that, for much of the 2020 surge, one of the biggest
ammunition producers, Remington, was on the sidelines. They had
gone through a bankruptcy, and they weren't producing in 2020.
Senator Marshall. Why?
Mr. Ferguson. They had gone through bankruptcy. They had
mismanagement and other factors, but our company actually
acquired that company--that ammunition facility--out of
bankruptcy in October 2020, and we have been ramping up
production at that facility. We more than doubled employment.
We have done 72,000 hours of worker training. We are standing
up a supply chain. And so, you know, the equivalent is to have
Charmin not producing toilet paper during the early surges of
COVID. That's the same analogy.
And so now that this facility is back up and running again,
you know, we think we're doing our part to get more supply to
meet the demand.
Senator Marshall. When can I tell my uncle he will have his
primers?
Thank you. I will yield back.
Mr. Ferguson. Your time has expired.
[Laughter.]
Senator King. Ms. Turner, I wanted to follow up on
something you mentioned. We had a hearing about a month ago on
overcrowding in the national parks, and you mention that in
your testimony. And you mentioned something very interesting
that we talked about that day that I think should be pursued by
the National Park Service. And that is the development of an
app, a kind of Waze app for the national parks so that a
traveler could look and see--``oh, it is going to be pretty
crowded this weekend at Yellowstone, maybe I could go to Devils
Tower.'' Could you elaborate on that a little bit?
Ms. Turner. Sure, you know, some state park systems across
the country are already starting to use this geospatial heatmap
tagging. It uses Google data, smartphone data. Obviously, we
want to be aware of privacy concerns, but it's happening.
During COVID, you know, at the depths of COVID, when we were
all staying home and just running out to the grocery store, you
might remember, you would put in your grocery store in Google,
and it might say ``red, it's really crowded right now.'' And
you'd say, ``I'm not going to go to the grocery store now. I'm
going to go when my app says it's not going to be crowded.''
Senator King. So that is a technology that ought to be very
useful in this situation.
Ms. Turner. It's there. It's available. I think the private
sector can be really helpful in this. And what I experienced
during the past year and a half, even with my local state park
in Maryland was, I would get to the park, and the parking lot
was so full that the gate was closed, but had I known, I could
have gone to another state park, but it's another hour's drive.
So we just need to give visitors the information. I know that
the American people want to have a great experience, and, you
know, I feel like some of the overcrowding could just be fixed
by people understanding what they're getting into before they
get there.
Senator King. Well, I hope our two witnesses from the
Administration will take this back. We have to use the
technology to more equitably distribute this surge in
visitation, which I think is going to continue for many of the
reasons we have heard today.
Mr. Chapple. I can address your concerns there.
We are working on apps within the National Park Service
currently, and this past week were called by our Acting
Director to actually ``think big'' with a potential donor that
wants to come in and help us to actually create these
heatmaps----
Senator King. Good.
Mr. Chapple [continuing]. And use the geospatial data. And
we're also working across agencies--different types of apps as
well. And so I think within the next year you would be pleased
to see what we can come up with, but we look forward to
actually working with you and any committee on actually pulling
this together along with the outdoor recreation industry.
Senator King. Great. Thank you.
I want to address a second comment to you. Not necessarily
the subject of this hearing, but these bills are very
important, and I generally support them. We have a real problem
with staffing in the National Parks. In 2011, there were 22,000
FTEs at the National Parks. In 2020, 18,000. In other words,
staffing is going like this [motioning downward], and then I
looked up the visitation numbers. Visitation has gone from 278
million to 327 million. So staffing is like this [motioning
downward]. Visitation is like this [motioning upward]. You add
those together and it is about a 30 percent gap from where we
were in 2011. That is not a subject of authorization here, but
it is a subject of appropriation.
Do you agree--and I understand you are subject to the
budgetary decisions of the Administration, but we have to do
something about staffing levels or all of this that we are
talking about--we cannot serve the public adequately if these
parks are understaffed.
Mr. Chapple. Thank you for recognizing that, Senator. That
is something that our staff feels and that our workforce
relevancy and inclusion directorate is actually looking at
right now. And so we are looking at it from a data standpoint
so that we can actually come back to you and other members of
the Senate to actually prove that we are ready and have that
need and match it with the ability to actually get more
appropriations----
Senator King. Well, I am concerned that it is going to
reach a point where you are going to have burnout, and it is
going to exacerbate itself by people just being overstressed by
the number of visitors and not being able to adequately serve
them. And it could escalate as a problem. If we are going to
invite people to the out-of-doors, we have to be able to meet
their needs. Otherwise, we are like a restaurant that wants to
double its visitation, but not do anything about its staff or
its number of tables. We need to add some tables, too. That
means park space. But I appreciate your attention to that, and
I hope you will emphasize within the Department that we are
prepared to help you, but you have to give us the data to do
so.
Mr. Chapple. Yes, sir. We will take that back to the
Department, for sure.
Senator King. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Senator Hickenlooper.
Senator Hickenlooper. Yes, thank you, Ranking Member.
What a treat to have you all here. You know, I did eight
years as Governor of Colorado before I came out to Washington,
and some of the best times there were dealing with the public
lands and outdoor recreation and beginning a whole movement
around--a non-partisan movement--around clean air, clean water,
and public lands. And I admire so much what each of you are
doing. I think back to where we started out--in the western
part of Colorado, we had an old utility property that was badly
polluted, and we put something on it called Cameo, which was
for sporting clays. It is almost like a golf course, except you
do not use a golf cart to go around, you have an ATV. But you
go to each site to shoot. And it took a few years to get it up,
but I was out nine months ago, and it is breathtaking. Right
across the street--or the canyon, I guess you would say we have
in Palisade--we have the Palisade Plunge, which is a 6,000-foot
mountain biking trail that is continually going down. These
things attract people from other states and are slowly building
a reputation. Governor Herbert was the first--Utah was the
first state to have an Office of Outdoor Recreation, but we
were proud to be the second. This had a huge impact on our
economy. And it is remarkable--if you look at those states that
have had strong economies, most of them have very strong
outdoor recreation industries and try to make sure that we have
companies like Vista Outdoor out there.
Anyway, I want to turn the attention to the more urban
setting and the issues around access. And I realize there are
access issues with a lot of the public lands, where we need
better parking lots and new points of entry. But I am
introducing, with Senator Padilla, the Parks, Jobs, and Equity
Act, which would help create a federal grant program to make
sure that we are able to provide resources to state and local
governments to invest in new parks and green spaces to expand
that access. One out of three Americans--that includes 28
million kids--do not have access within a half mile to a green
space. And, you know, they are denied that opportunity of
getting this different type of renewable energy, the energy the
people bring back when they have been out exercising or
recreating in a green space.
I will start with Mr. French and Mr. Lambrecht and Mr.
Chapple. How have we seen an acceleration in this pressure,
this lack of access? And do you think it is appropriate that we
begin looking at providing resources and let the Federal
Government and the public lands movement provide more access to
urban areas?
Mr. French. Thank you, Senator, for the question.
And so there are two things that I would say. One is, you
know, our mission is actually much wider than just the
management of our national forests and grasslands. So through
our state and private programs, we have a number of programs
that are focused just on these issues. If you look at our urban
forestry program, our urban forestry research programs, or our
grant programs that are dedicated to building green spaces in
urban communities--and our science is showing us that, you
know, for a number of these communities, having those green
spaces creates better community wellness, better mental
health--and so I think continued investments in those areas are
critically important, as well as identifying those barriers of
lack of access of communities to their public lands. I think
you have to look at both of those in conjunction.
Senator Hickenlooper. Right.
Mr. French. So I'll leave it there.
Senator Hickenlooper. Mr. Lambrecht.
Mr. Lambrecht. Thank you, Senator Hickenlooper.
You know, we certainly support the goal of your
legislation. It is an important one. And, you know, as you
understand, the BLM states are a little more rural than many
others, but that doesn't mean we don't have opportunities to
increase recreational visits from urban areas. I think that is
a high priority for us and something that we are keeping track
of and looking for opportunities through our programs, such as
the Land and Water Conservation Fund or Great American Outdoors
Act. But I know Mr. Chapple from the Park Service has some
additional details. Some of their programs are even more
focused for that purpose.
So with your permission?
Senator Hickenlooper. Sure. Mr. Chapple.
Mr. Chapple. Thanks, Mark.
Thank you for this question, Senator. The National Park
Service is supportive of the bill that you are putting forward
with Senator Padilla. We are successful with our Outdoor
Recreation Legacy Partnership (ORLP) program through the Land
and Water Conservation Fund. And so we see that there is an
opportunity to expand on that through your bill. And what we
would like to do is to work with you with the language of the
bill to actually bring it into alignment with the way in which
we are currently managing the ORLP. And so, and really in
that--finding the efficiencies, and the way that your bill can
complement the way in which the ORLP program is operated right
now. It's central to actually have urban populations,
underserved populations, people of color to have access to
recreation. And so that rounds out the opportunity.
Senator Hickenlooper. Absolutely.
If I can indulge just for an extra 60 seconds, or do you
want me to get off the stage?
Senator Barrasso. That is up to Senator Wyden. He is next.
Senator Wyden. Sure, please.
Senator Hickenlooper. I would like to hear both Ms. Turner
and Mr. Ferguson answer that quickly.
Ms. Turner. Yes, in a survey of 14,000 cities and towns,
those serving underrepresented communities had half the park
space and served five times as many people in those parks, and
they were, as you can imagine, not as quality of park spaces.
So it's really imperative--your bill and the efforts of the
agencies. And I would say this is one area over the past five
or ten years that I have seen the agencies really double down
on, and we've been so appreciative of them, as Mr. French said,
kind of getting outside of their traditional Forest Service
jurisdiction or National Park Service jurisdiction and saying
``how do we get to the people?''--not just bringing the people
to the places.
And so I think we can all work together on ORLP and those
programs and your bill to get more people access.
Mr. Ferguson. So I think we have talked about this in
transportation circles, but e-bikes can be a really innovative
solution for getting people from point A to point B. We have
seen the National Park Service embrace e-bikes as a mode of
transportation within park units themselves, but I think within
diverse communities that we're talking about, I think an e-bike
could be a creative solution to get people from the population
centers to wherever that recreation is. e-Bikes can be more
cost-effective than a car or a large bus. They're carbon
neutral. And I think that can be a part of the solution, and I
will tell you we have an e-bike company now in Eagle, Colorado.
So that's new as of this year, and I just want to make sure you
knew that.
Senator Hickenlooper. Yes, I was all for e-bikes, and I did
not even know that.
Mr. Ferguson. Yes, sir.
Senator Hickenlooper. So glad to hear that.
Thank you all for your time and your service. I yield back.
The Chairman [presiding]. Senator Wyden.
Senator Wyden. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And Mr.
Chairman, I want to thank you and Senator Barrasso for holding
this very important hearing. Terrific panel. As Chairman of the
Finance Committee, I have been juggling a lot today, but I have
been watching little parts of the discussion. It has been
terrific.
Here is my interest here: so many of the rules as it
relates to rural America and particularly recreation have not
kept up with the times. I mean, we know recreation now is a
major economic engine for rural America, and I am always struck
by areas where, basically, the Federal Government just has
missed the need to modernize systems. I see a number of my
colleagues on the dais today who are co-sponsors of my
legislation to permanently authorize the Craft Beverage
Modernization and Tax Reform Act--hugely important for
breweries, for example, and restaurants in rural America. We
have now gotten it permanent. And a number of those rural
businesses that are dependent on recreation have come to me and
said that law basically helped me survive the pandemic. So I am
so pleased that you are interested in working with us on these
issues, and I know a number of my colleagues have been
outlining important measures as well.
So this morning, I want to talk about the other big
initiative I have in this area, and that is with Blake Moore of
Utah. It is a bipartisan bill--the Recreation Not Red Tape Act.
And again, much like the laws involving breweries and rural
restaurants, the rules have not kept up with the times. What
got me interested--as recreation is a hugely important business
in my home state--was telling me that they get up on the phone
in the middle of the night calling agencies and the like, and
holding and whatnot, for what seemed like interminable amounts
of time, and they just could not cut through the bureaucracy
and red tape and get their permits and their passes and the
like.
And so that is what Congressman Moore and I are seeking to
do is to streamline the rules as it relates to permitting,
emphasizing recreation, making sure that people have multiple
uses of our public lands. That is a bedrock. I am looking at
all of my western colleagues on the Committee. That is a
bedrock principle of public lands, so we are protecting that.
But we are really streamlining the system so we can wring more
value out of opportunities to be outdoors and help our small
businesses. And to me, this is much like the Craft Beverage
Modernization Act, where nobody got up in the morning on these
recreation permits and said, ``let's now be rotten to small,
rural businesses.'' I see my friend, Senator Hickenlooper here,
who comes from small business and understands this. We do not
have anybody getting up in these agencies saying they want to
be rotten to small businesses. What they do is they get up in
the morning, and they say, ``My God, I have this big rule book.
And the thing was written kind of in the Dark Ages.'' As
Senator Hickenlooper knows because he is in the business, when
we were working on the Craft Beverage Modernization Act, some
of those rules almost went back to Prohibition--not quite that
far--but they were from the Dark Ages. We are dealing with the
same thing in terms of some of the recreation rules, and that
is what Congressman Moore and I are trying to do with the
Recreation Not Red Tape idea.
So first question for you, Ms. Turner, if I might--as you
know, we establish these national recreation areas, which we
think can really be a magnet for helping small recreation-
oriented businesses. And I think you are pretty much in the
ballpark with us on that. Can you just give us your thoughts?
Ms. Turner. Yes, thank you so much for the question,
Senator Wyden, and for your amazing work on this, and your
team's work over the years on this bill.
We agree with you completely that the recreation framework
has not kept up with evolving visitor experience, demand,
climate change, and technologies. I have heard stories of
permits or passes actually being on framework that's more for
the extractive industry than recreation, just because there are
not tools for our industry. And what the NRA (National
Recreation Area) portion of your bill creates is a real tool
for agencies during their planning process to look for
recreation-quality landscapes. Right now, we are fitting a
round peg in a square hole a lot of the times where agencies
need to go out and look for wild and scenic river qualities.
They need to look for wilderness qualities. But what if they
see someone hunting and fishing on an ATV, backpacking, and
biking? What is that area called? How are they going to manage
for it in the future?
And if we could have, you know, ``National Recreation
Area'' being looked for throughout the planning process, and
then being managed for as the highest use of the land. And that
doesn't mean it's excluding other uses. That just means we're
talking about recreation as a priority in this landscape.
Businesses will really be motivated by that. As Fred knows and
can maybe speak to, the business sees that this is going to be
an area that's managed for sustainable recreation for years.
You're going to get those guides and outfitters, you're going
to get the breweries that go along with it. You're actually
going to get the technology and healthcare companies that want
to live and work and play near these great recreation assets.
So it's even more than the recreation economy. Sustainable,
well-planned recreation assets can create economic resurgence
that goes well beyond our industry.
Senator Wyden. Let me just--really quickly, because I am
already pressing on my time--a question for you, Mr. French,
with respect to the Forest Service: what we worked very hard to
do working with the agencies and the like is to make sure that
we did not affect other multiple uses in existing or future
national recreation designations, requiring the agency to
unilaterally go out and do a bunch of different stuff. I would
just like to have on the record your assessment because we
worked very closely with you to make sure that the Forest
Service is not going out under this bill to have to manage a
bunch of areas that are not already designated as recreation
areas. We wanted to build on the existing system--strengthen
the existing system. Could you just speak quickly to that?
Mr. French. Yes, thank you, Senator. And yes, you worked
very closely with us, addressed our concerns, and the way that
we read it right now, it would be very compatible. It wouldn't
create those issues.
Senator Wyden. Great. Big thanks, everybody, and I just
want you to know I think some of the work you are doing is just
as important as it gets in the rural West because this is not
your grandfather's economy in the rural West, and recreation--
huge economic engine--and it is just wonderful to have you and
I appreciate the collaboration.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Cantwell.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
Following on my colleague, I could not agree more. I want
to thank the Chairman and the Ranking Member for this important
hearing. The outdoor economy is very important to the State of
Washington, with over 100,000 people employed in it, and it
generates about $5.8 billion in compensation overall. So I am
very excited about all sorts of land and recreation
opportunities.
I think I will turn to you, Mr. French. Do you anticipate
trails on our federal public lands to still be closed or
inaccessible if additional funding is not provided for
maintenance or repair?
Mr. French. Yes. If it is not commensurate with the backlog
that we have, which, you know, there are a series of critical
trails right now that if we are not able to do the maintenance
of, we will probably have to temporarily close them until we do
have the funding for it.
Senator Cantwell. Can you give us a list of those?
Mr. French. We can get you a list. Yes, we can provide
that. It might take us a little bit of time, but we can do
that.
Senator Cantwell. Well, I think, you know, we all
participated in a very landmark piece of legislation, and we
want to know its effect, and we want to know what is going to
get done, and we want to know what is not going to get done.
Mr. French. Right.
Senator Cantwell. So we, as Senator Wyden was saying, and
you know, I am a big believer--this is for many, many, many,
many communities in my state. I was just on the tram this
morning and happened to strike up a conversation with a
photographer, where he was like, ``yes, I went to Olympic, and
here is what I did, and, you know, here are all the places.''
This matters to have these trails and facilities open to these
communities.
For all the witnesses--the Great American Outdoors Act
addresses nearly half of the public maintenance backlog over
the next five years. In your view, what does this mean for
overall safety and accessibility? Are there recreational
opportunities that we still need to address because of what are
potential trail closures? So just go down the dais or whoever
wants to jump in first.
Mr. Ferguson. Yes, I mean, there's no doubt the maintenance
backlog wasn't going to be solved in one single swoop. So
there's a lot of work to be done. One thing I've talked about a
couple times today is that we launched a corporate foundation,
and one of the grants that we initiated was with the National
Forest Foundation so that we could actually put some of our
dollars to work in supporting that foundation and doing trail
development, you know, wildfire mitigation in forests in and
around locations where we have businesses. So I think, from our
perspective, you know, we want to do our part to help and be
part of the solution.
Senator Cantwell. Well, this is big business for us, as I
just mentioned.
So anybody else?
Ms. Turner.
Ms. Turner. Yes, thank you for the question. Knowing where
the investments are being made, as you mentioned, is really
helpful for the private sector so that we can plan out. So if
we know the water system in a forest will be repaired and maybe
a nearby campground won't make it on that backlog list, there
might be some public-private opportunities to repair that
campground now that we know that the infrastructure is going to
be intact for years to come. But I do worry about the growing
backlog with more severe weather as it goes on. We'll hopefully
be talking to this Committee soon about some sort of
reauthorization of GAOA (Great American Outdoors Act) or how we
can continue to make sure that we're getting down the
maintenance backlog and then working with our sector to make
sure that when we're repairing these places, we have the
funding stream to keep them off the maintenance backlog.
Senator Cantwell. I love the idea of cooperation and trying
to match resources to get us even more.
Mr. Chapple or Mr. Lambrecht.
Mr. Chapple. Yes, thanks for that question, Senator.
At the National Park Service, the Legacy Restoration Fund
is working on parks as well as rivers and trails in terms of
our maintenance backlog. And what is happening is that monies
that are in other funding sources are being freed up so that we
can then apply those to things that don't make it onto the
maintenance list. And so we are able then to actually address
deferred maintenance in other areas. And so there is a benefit
that is happening from the GAOA funding that was unintended,
but our parks and our rivers and trails are excited about the
additional work that we can do to bring things into proper
alignment and then working with our partners at the same time
to activate those spaces.
Senator Cantwell. Yes, Mr. Lambrecht.
Mr. Lambrecht. Senator Cantwell, I am really glad that you
asked this question. The Great American Outdoors Act is a
significant achievement that benefits all of us land management
agencies. And I have seen a recent list of all of the different
projects that have been funded, and I know there is planning
going on right now for the next round of GAOA projects--
everything from trails to bathrooms to campgrounds. We have
lost entire campgrounds to wildfire. So the need is
significant, and we really look forward to working on those
projects going forward. And I have to say that the recently
passed infrastructure legislation is a major help in that
regard as well.
But I would be happy to provide you a list of the projects
that have been addressed through the Great American Outdoors
Act, if you----
Senator Cantwell. That would be great.
Well, we had our big anniversary, and we increased access
to the parks, which was great, and made it more affordable, but
I consider the next 100 years of the park investment the Great
American Outdoors Act and the investment we made. So let us
just figure out how and where we are coming up short or what
else we need to do to coordinate.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Cantwell.
Senator Kelly.
Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to
you and Chairman Manchin for holding this hearing today on
legislation to enhance opportunities for outdoor recreation.
The agenda today included a bill that you introduced with
Chairman Manchin--the Outdoor Recreation Act. And I would like
to highlight a provision in the bill that would help Arizona
businesses and communities that depend on our national parks.
The bill would direct the National Park Service to work with
local communities to keep roads, overlooks, and other
facilities open during shoulder seasons.
On the South Rim of the Grand Canyon, at Grand Canyon
National Park, our shoulder seasons are typically mid-March and
late November. And for the North Rim, it is mid-October and
mid-May. And these are the months when park operations wind
down or close for the winter, but as any Arizonan will tell
you, the shoulder seasons are often considered the best time of
the year to visit the Grand Canyon. It is when I often go down
to the bottom. I think it is really spectacular coming down
South Kaibab Trail and Bright Angel Trail in November.
So Ms. Wahl, would you agree that reopening or extending
park operations for an extra week or two would have a big
impact on jobs and local tax revenue?
Ms. Turner. Yes, I really appreciate this provision and
appreciate you calling it out. I think it will also disperse
visitation. These are the visitation issues that we have been
talking about--the overcrowding. Having those extra weeks, that
is a great time for people who can accommodate not going in the
summer months to the Grand Canyon, and also it helps gateway
communities have that income for longer and not be as
seasonal--be more year-round. I tried to go camping in
Shenandoah in October on an 80-degree day, and they're starting
to wind down camping. Well, it's 80 degrees in October now. It
should be open for camping.
So I think that's across the board, and extending shoulder
seasons has a benefit for all involved.
Senator Kelly. Yes, it could be a little icy at the top on
the South Rim. Now make sure you have some crampons on for the
first part of the trail, but when you get down to the bottom in
late November, it is a spectacular place to be, and we would
see hundreds of thousands of people come through there that
time of year. So thank you for that.
Mr. French, great to see you again today. You will recall
that the last time we spoke was in October, when I asked you
and the Forest Service Chief, Chief Moore, to travel to Arizona
and meet with 4FRI stakeholders. You know, more work needs to
be done to get 4FRI back on track, but please convey my
gratitude to Chief Moore and the Forest Service team that
visited Flagstaff last month. I wish I could have joined you
for that trip, but I heard some really positive feedback. So
thank you for doing that, and, you know, the release of the
funding to priority for some of the forest thinning projects
and for the Museum Fire flood mitigation is greatly appreciated
in those communities.
We are going to follow up with you on next steps for 4FRI,
but again, thank you for being so responsive on this issue.
And I yield back the remainder of my time.
Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks. We are just about ready to
wrap this up.
Quick question or two for Mr. Ferguson--our Outdoor
Recreation Act would ensure the shooting ranges are available
to sportsmen and women on each national forest and within the
Bureau of Land Management district. Can you talk about the
recreation access, safety, and conservation benefits that would
stem from this measure?
Mr. Ferguson. Absolutely. So you know, there's been a huge
influx in new participants in the shooting sports, and, you
know, giving these new shooters a place to go is really smart
policy on a couple of different levels. You know, one is
safety. Range instructors, range managers--they respect and
prioritize safety in ways that is unrivaled and unmatched. And
so the more we can get new shooters and existing shooters to
shooting ranges where there's supervision and oversight--we're
promoting that respect and safety that we all agree is needed.
You know, the range--also the more places you have that are
structured, the less likelihood of dispersed shooting just out
on the public lands, which can lead to ricochets and other
dangerous situations. And you know, the Pittman-Robertson Trust
Fund, which is a conservation fund dedicated to wildlife
habitat conservation and enhancements, receives 85 percent of
its funding through target shooting. And so the more we do to
promote and encourage target shooting, you know, we're going to
be supporting that Pittman-Robertson Trust Fund, which goes
back into conservation, which, during the course of its
existence has invested more than $13 billion directly into
wildlife and habitat conservation.
Senator Barrasso. Good.
Ms. Turner, I think about how gateway communities--and in
Wyoming it is Cody, Dubois, Jackson--play a pivotal role as
entry and exit points for our national parks or forests and
public lands. Likewise, these communities do benefit from a
strong visitorship to the recreational destinations. According
to the National Park Service, about 3.3 million visitors spend
$600 million in gateway communities that neighbor national
parks--lots of money. How critical is a strong outdoor economy
to our major gateway communities?
Ms. Turner. As we've seen over the past year and a half,
it's really critical to these gateway communities. It's
economic diversification, for sure. It's also a way to attract
retirees and other sectors that can provide, you know, tax
revenue for gateway communities. So when we think about
important recreation assets, we think beyond just the
recreation economy. We think about the job seekers and people
who want to live and work and play in these areas.
Senator Barrasso. Could I ask you about invasive species?
Zebra mussels have been an issue, caused significant harm to
the ecosystems and water infrastructure. The Outdoor Recreation
Act would protect against aquatic invasive species by improving
coordination between federal land management agencies and their
non-federal partners, as you know. The bill would also help
state and local partners conduct inspections and
decontamination of watercraft in reservoirs that are
administered by the Department of the Interior.
So in addition to the environmental benefits, is it your
view that measures like this could actually also improve
recreational activities--boating, fishing?
Ms. Turner. Yes, that's absolutely correct. More people
bought boats last year than ever before. So we need to be
really aware there are more people boating, and what this bill
does is--it allows us to diminish the invasive species impact
on the waterway, but not create a burden for people wanting to
get on the water in their boats or fishing. So it's a win-win
for both conservation and recreationists.
Senator Barrasso. Great.
Any of the other members have additional questions?
Senator King. I do not have additional questions. I wanted
to ask Mr. Chapple to convey my congratulations to the first
Director of the National Park Service in five years, which we
confirmed a few weeks ago. Please convey my congratulations and
best wishes to Mr. Sams.
Mr. Chapple. I will do that, sir. Thank you.
Senator King. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
Well, thank you to all the witnesses.
Senator Hickenlooper, anything else?
[No response.]
Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you to all the witnesses for
joining us this morning for the discussion. Members are going
to have until the close of business tomorrow to submit
additional questions for the record.
So, with that, the Committee stands adjourned. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 11:45 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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