[Senate Hearing 117-452]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                       S. Hrg. 117-452

                PHILLIPS, CRABTREE, AND SAMS NOMINATIONS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                                   to

 CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF WILLIE L. PHILLIPS, JR. TO BE A MEMBER OF 
  THE FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION, BRAD J. CRABTREE TO BE AN 
 ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF ENERGY (FOSSIL ENERGY AND CARBON MANAGEMENT), 
  AND CHARLES F. SAMS III TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE

                               __________

                            OCTOBER 19, 2021

                               __________
                               
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                       Printed for the use of the
               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

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                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon                    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington           JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico          STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine            JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado       CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
                                     ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas

                      Renae Black, Staff Director
                      Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
             Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
              Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Cantwell, Hon. Maria, a U.S. Senator from Washington.............     1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from 
  Wyoming........................................................     2
Wyden, Hon. Ron, a U.S. Senator from Oregon......................     4
Hoeven, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from North Dakota..............     5

                               WITNESSES

Sams III, Charles F., nominated to be Director of the National 
  Park Service...................................................     7
Crabtree, Brad J., nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of 
  Energy (Fossil Energy and Carbon Management)...................    11
Phillips, Jr., Willie L., nominated to be a Member of the Federal 
  Energy Regulatory Commission...................................    16

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Barrasso, Hon. John:
    Opening Statement............................................     2
    Wall Street Journal op-ed entitled ``Energy Crisis Hobbles 
      Biden's Green Agenda'' by Walter Russell Mead, dated 
      October 18, 2021...........................................    24
Bowser, Hon. Muriel, Mayor of Washington, D.C.:
    Letter for the Record........................................     6
Cantwell, Hon. Maria:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
Coalition of Oregon Land Trusts:
    Letter for the Record........................................   102
Coalition To Protect America's National Parks:
    Letter for the Record........................................   103
Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Nation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   105
Confederated Tribes of Siletz Indians:
    Letter for the Record........................................   106
Crabtree, Brad J.:
    Opening Statement............................................    11
    Written Testimony............................................    13
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    74
Hoeven, Hon. John:
    Opening Statement............................................     5
Kua`aina Ulu `Auamo et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................    36
National Association of Tribal Historic Preservation Officers:
    Letter for the Record........................................   107
National Park Foundation and National Park Friends Alliance:
    Letter for the Record........................................   108
National Trust for Historic Preservation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   109
Phillips, Jr., Willie L.:
    Opening Statement............................................    16
    Written Testimony............................................    18
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    84
Sams III, Charles F.:
    Opening Statement............................................     7
    Written Testimony............................................     9
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    59
Southern Ute Indian Tribe:
    Letter for the Record........................................    50
Western Leaders Network:
    Letter for the Record........................................   111
Wyden, Hon. Ron:
    Opening Statement............................................     4

 
                PHILLIPS, CRABTREE, AND SAMS NOMINATIONS

                              ----------                              


                       TUESDAY, OCTOBER, 19, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:00 a.m. in 
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Senator Maria 
Cantwell, presiding.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARIA CANTWELL, 
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON

    Senator Cantwell [presiding]. The Senate Energy and 
Interior Committee will come to order. I am filling in for 
Senator Manchin, who is on his way and will be joining us 
shortly.
    We meet today to consider three pending nominations. The 
nominations are: Mr. Willie Phillips to be a Federal Energy 
Regulatory Commission (FERC) member, Mr. Brad Crabtree to be 
the Assistant Secretary of Energy for Fossil Energy and Carbon 
Management, and Mr. Charles Sams to be the Director of the 
National Park Service. Welcome to all of you. Thank you for 
your willingness to serve. Each of you will be able to welcome 
your family members soon, so thank them for being here as well.
    Our first nominee, Mr. Phillips, has been nominated to fill 
the seat on the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission vacated by 
Mr. Neil Chatterjee at the end of August. I have said that the 
best FERC is one that is fully seated. I am pleased to have Mr. 
Phillips' nomination before us this morning so we can get FERC 
back to its full strength as soon as possible. I am especially 
pleased that the President has nominated someone of Mr. 
Phillips' stature and experience. The law establishing FERC 
says that members of the Commission shall be individuals, who 
by demonstrated ability, background, training, and experience, 
are specifically qualified to assess fairly the needs and 
concerns of all affected by the Federal Energy Regulatory 
Commission, and Mr. Phillips meets that test.
    He has regulated natural gas and electric utilities as a 
member of the District of Columbia's Public Service Commission 
for the past seven years. He has chaired the Commission for the 
past three years and has worked in the energy field for nearly 
20 years as a regulator and as the Assistant General Counsel 
for the North American Electric Reliability Corporation 
(NAERC), and as a lawyer representing utility clients. As a 
regulator, he has shouldered the responsibility for keeping the 
lights on at natural gas lines and to keep people safe and 
rates low for individuals. He will bring a valuable, 
experienced perspective to the Commission and I am pleased to 
support his nomination.
    Our next nomination is Mr. Brad Crabtree, who has been 
nominated to be the Assistant Secretary of Energy for Fossil 
Energy and Carbon Management. Although the title is new, the 
office has been there for more than 40 years and its statutory 
basis is still older--older than even the Department itself. 
Over 60 years ago, the Coal Research Act of 1960 directed the 
Secretary of the Interior to develop thorough research and new 
and more efficient methods of using our abundant coal resources 
for the nation's benefit. This duty still exists and now rests 
with the Assistant Secretary of Fossil Energy and Carbon 
Management. The role fossil fuels play in our energy mix and 
their impact on global climate change has changed dramatically, 
but we will need to continue to meet our energy needs and that 
is why research and development on fossil fuel and carbon 
management is even more important than ever. I understand that 
Mr. Crabtree, you have been the Great Plains Institute Vice 
President for Carbon Management over the last nine years. You 
have previously testified the on the importance of carbon 
capture use and storage technologies, and have worked with 
state officials to promote their development. I look forward to 
hearing your thoughts on how we manage this resource.
    Mr. Sams, our third nominee, has been nominated to lead the 
National Park Service. This Committee oversees dozens of 
offices, bureaus, and services that perform important 
regulatory or management functions, but none has a deeper 
connection with the American people than the National Park 
Service. The National Park Service is a steward and guardian of 
our nation's most iconic landscapes and its most treasured and 
historic lands. It manages them for the benefit and enjoyment 
of the American people, and it has a duty to preserve these for 
future generations. Our national parks and our national 
heritage, I believe, are priceless treasures, so serving as the 
Director of the Park Service is a sacred trust, and remarkably, 
the National Park Service has been without a Senate-confirmed 
director since January 2017, the longest lapse in the office, 
which was established in 1916. So by law, the Director of the 
National Park Service must have substantial experience and 
competence in land management and natural and cultural 
resources. Mr. Sams clearly has worked in the natural 
resources/conservation field for over 25 years and clearly 
meets that test, but I also want to congratulate you. I know 
Senator Wyden is going to be here, I think, to also add 
comments, or maybe formally introduce you. You will be the 
first Native American person to serve as Park Director, so that 
is a big moment for all of us as you are a member of the 
Umatilla Tribe and someone from the Pacific Northwest. So 
congratulations on your nomination.
    At this point, I turn to our Ranking Member, Senator 
Barrasso, for his opening statement.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING

    Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you very much, Madam 
Chairman, and I would also like to add my welcome to Mr. Sams, 
Mr. Phillips, and Mr. Crabtree, to the Senate Energy and 
Natural Resources Committee and congratulations to each of you 
on these nominations.
    Mr. Sams has been nominated to serve as Director of the 
National Park Service. If confirmed, he would be the first 
enrolled tribal member, as you have mentioned, to serve in this 
position. He has worked in state and tribal governments and in 
the nonprofit, natural resource, and conservation management 
fields now for more than 25 years. When asked about Mr. Sams' 
nomination by E&E news last month, Senator King, who is the 
Chairman of the Subcommittee on National Parks said, ``My only 
concern is that he doesn't have any direct experience with the 
National Parks or National Park Service, but I am reserving 
judgment.'' I share Senator King's concern and I am also 
reserving judgment. I would like to hear more today about Mr. 
Sams' vision for the National Park Service.
    I hope Mr. Sams will commit to working with me and other 
stakeholders in Wyoming to continue to maintain and improve our 
state's beautiful national parks. One issue that needs to be 
addressed is transportation in the Grand Teton National Park. 
If he is confirmed, I would look forward to working with him to 
improve visitor access and safety in the Moose-Wilson corridor. 
I also hope Mr. Sams will work with me to allow the public to 
more easily film and share their national park visits without 
the requirement of a permit to do so. I have introduced 
legislation to address this issue.
    Mr. Phillips has been nominated to serve as a Commissioner 
on the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission--the FERC. Mr. 
Phillips has nearly two decades of experience as a utility 
regulator and an attorney in private legal practice. If 
confirmed, Mr. Phillips would play an important role in 
regulating electricity and natural gas so that all Americans 
benefit from affordable and reliable energy. As an independent 
regulator, Mr. Phillips would also have the opportunity and the 
obligation to explain the disastrous consequences of reckless 
policies that House Democrats want to ram through Congress. 
House Democrats want to end all new oil and natural gas 
production on federal lands and waters. If enacted, these 
policies would surrender America's energy independence to OPEC 
and to Russia.
    House Democrats also want to impose a natural gas tax on 
American families and businesses. At a time when inflation is 
at its highest level since 2008, Democrats in the House want to 
make it more expensive for American families to heat and power 
their homes. The House Democrat plan would also establish a so-
called ``Clean Electricity Performance Program.'' This scheme 
would use an estimated $150 billion of taxpayer money to pay 
off the largest utilities in the country to install wind 
turbines and solar panels. It would also allow those utilities 
to charge their customers for new transmission lines to service 
these facilities. I would like to hear from Mr. Phillips on how 
he thinks these policies will impact the affordability and the 
reliability of electric and natural gas services.
    Mr. Crabtree has been nominated to serve as Assistant 
Secretary for Fossil Energy and Carbon Management at the 
Department of Energy. Mr. Crabtree has worked in the carbon 
capture space for over two decades. He is well aware that 
Wyoming leads the nation in carbon capture research. Wyoming is 
investing millions of dollars in carbon capture development as 
a way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Mr. Crabtree's 
support of carbon capture research is a sign that he 
understands the important role that fossil fuels must play in 
our nation's energy future.
    Congratulations to each of you as the nominees. I look 
forward to hearing your testimony.
    Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
    The rules of the Committee, which apply to all nominees, 
require that they be sworn in in conjunction with their 
testimony. So if you would, please stand and raise your right 
hands.
    Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you are about 
to give to the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God?
    [All nominees respond ``I do.'']
    Senator Cantwell. You may be seated.
    Before you begin your statements, I would like to ask three 
questions to each of the nominees.
    One, will you be available to appear before the Committee 
and other Congressional committees to represent department 
positions and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
    [All nominees respond ``yes.'']
    Senator Cantwell. Second, are you aware of any personal 
holdings, investments, or interests that could constitute a 
conflict of interest or create the appearance of such a 
conflict, should you be confirmed and assume the office to 
which you have been nominated by the President?
    [All nominees respond ``no.'']
    Senator Cantwell. Three, are you involved or do you have 
any assets held in a blind trust?
    [All nominees respond ``no.'']
    Senator Cantwell. Okay. Before we go to the nominees' 
statements, I would like to recognize Senator Wyden, who is 
here to introduce Mr. Sams to the Committee.
    Senator Wyden, if you are ready, thank you for joining us.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RON WYDEN, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM OREGON

    Senator Wyden. Thank you, Senator Cantwell. It is a 
pleasure to be able to introduce Chuck Sams of Oregon, 
President Biden's nominee to be the next Director of the 
National Park Service.
    Now, the Park Service, colleagues, we all know, is not just 
about pretty places and photo ops. As Director, Chuck Sams will 
be responsible for an organization of more than 22,000 
employees and almost 222,000 volunteers at park units in every 
state in the country, generating almost $40 billion for our 
economy. The Park Service does it all--from education to 
maintenance, management of everything in our parks from 
wildfire to roads to water and from urban parks to rural 
parks--the National Park Service is an American institution 
with extraordinarily deep community roots.
    I have known Chuck Sams for years, and during our work 
together, I have seen firsthand his commitment and dedication 
to people and the outdoors. He has been a real leader and a 
role model in the stewardship of American land and waters, 
wildlife, and history. And as a longtime leader of the Umatilla 
Tribe, he has shown a real commitment to his people and the 
citizens of Oregon--and most recently on the Northwest Power 
Council--to the entire Pacific Northwest. Finally, the Park 
Service gives us the ability to reach places most Americans 
would not or could not otherwise reach, and they play a vital 
role in teaching us. I cannot think of anybody in America 
better and more qualified to do this than Chuck Sams, with his 
unique perspective as the first Native American to lead the 
Park Service.
    Colleagues, this is, frankly, long overdue. Chuck's going 
to have a big job cut out for him. We know there is crowding in 
the parks, a multibillion-dollar maintenance backlog, a 
changing climate, which of course, produces an increase in 
wildfires and droughts, and unfortunately, a workforce culture 
fraught with gender discrimination and harassment. I will just 
close by saying thank you to colleagues who have talked to me 
about Chuck Sams. This is a person who represents the very best 
of my state. He listens. He doesn't just listen, he hears 
people and he cares and he follows up. So Chuck Sams, we are 
sure glad you are here today, and all Oregonians this morning 
are proud that you are here on behalf of our state and more 
importantly, on behalf of the whole country, to outline how you 
would proceed to tackle this extraordinarily important job, I 
thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you, and I appreciate the courtesy as 
well.
    The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Wyden. Now we 
have Senator Hoeven, who would like to make an introduction.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN HOEVEN, 
                 U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH DAKOTA

    Senator Hoeven. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like 
to welcome all three of our witnesses. In particular, I would 
like to welcome Brad Crabtree, who I have known for many years 
and I know members of his family as well. He is from North 
Dakota and attended the Georgetown School of Foreign Service, 
and received a Master of Arts in history from Johns Hopkins 
University. And as the Chairman said just a minute ago, he has 
a lot of background with carbon capture and storage. In North 
Dakota, we are attempting to do everything we can to crack the 
code on carbon capture and storage. So I think it is important 
that he has a background in that work. We very much look 
forward to hearing from Brad how he intends to help us do 
exactly that.
    So again, I want to welcome all of our witnesses and 
welcome Brad here today for this important hearing. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. And let me just say, I 
would like to read a letter in support of Mr. Phillips. Both 
Senator Barrasso and I have received a letter from Mayor Bowser 
this morning which praises your strong acumen for the law and 
business, your demonstrated ability to balance competing 
interests to promote innovation, efficiency, and resilience, 
and your skill and experience for consensus building that has 
won the respect of colleagues, advocates, and stakeholders.
    I ask unanimous consent to enter Mayor Bowser's letter into 
the hearing record.
    Hearing no objection, it is ordered.
    [Mayor Bowser's letter follows:]

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    The Chairman. We will now begin with our questions.
    Senator Barrasso. They have to testify first.
    The Chairman. Oh, I'm sorry. I am getting a little ahead of 
myself.
    Let's see who we are going to hear from first. So we will 
begin with our opening statements, and Mr. Sams, you will be 
first.

   OPENING STATEMENT OF CHARLES F. SAMS III, NOMINATED TO BE 
             DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE

    Mr. Sams. Good morning Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member 
Barrasso, and Committee members, and thank you, Senator Wyden, 
for that kind introduction. I am joined today by my wife, Lori 
Sams, and my oldest daughter, Rosevelie Sams. Our son Chauncey 
and daughters Clara and Ruby are home in Oregon. I am honored 
and deeply appreciative to be President Biden's nominee to be 
the 19th Director of the National Park Service, and I am 
grateful for the invitation to appear before this distinguished 
Committee.
    I am an enrolled Tribal Member of the Confederated Tribes 
of the Umatilla Indian Reservation. I am Cayuse and Walla 
Walla, with blood ties to the Yankton Sioux and Cocopah 
peoples. On my American Indian side of the family, we have 
lived here since time immemorial, or for at least 15,000 years. 
I am also of Dutch and French descent. Two of my great 
grandfathers came west to Oregon in the 1800's. Hendrick Sams 
immigrated to the American colonies in the mid-1700's, and his 
descendants came west on the Oregon Trail in the 1850's. My 
great grandfather, Joseph Larocque, came to the Oregon 
Territory in 1812, and worked for the Pacific Fur Company. My 
great grandmother, Mary, was a Walla Walla and Cayuse Tribal 
Member and the daughter of Chief Peo Peo Mox Mox, Headman of 
the Walla Walla people.
    My personal history is deeply interwoven with the fabric of 
our shared American history. After serving in the United States 
Navy as an intelligence specialist, I worked in natural 
resources and conservation management across the nation in 
urban and rural areas for nearly 30 years. I have served in 
local, regional, and national organizations that have conserved 
fish and wildlife and our common spaces of land. My record is 
one of engagement and collaboration. Some of my closest friends 
and colleagues in Oregon are non-Indian farmers and ranchers. 
Most recently, I served as the Umatilla Tribe's Executive 
Director and Deputy Executive Director, managing over 190,000 
acres of land and resources with over $700 million in assets 
while also co-managing with local, state, and federal agencies 
over six million acres of land that were granted to the United 
States under the Treaty of 1855. I currently serve as a 
Councilmember of the Pacific Northwest Power and Conservation 
Council, with a jurisdictional area covering Oregon, 
Washington, Idaho, and Montana--working to ensure that we can 
meet the power needs of our people and economy and to protect 
fish and wildlife.
    The National Park Service is a very special agency with a 
timeless mission to preserve resources and to inspire current 
and future generations. I am excited to lead that mission. 
Although I have not worn the National Park Service uniform, I 
have worn the uniform of the United States Navy during wartime, 
and I wear the regalia of my tribe to honor my ancestors and 
elders. These uniforms are reminders of the sacrifices made to 
protect our homelands and the responsibility to pass down those 
lands in a stronger state than they are now. I have a 
tremendous respect for the people and places of the National 
Park Service. While hiking recently on John Day Fossil Beds 
National Monument with my family, I was struck by the 
professionalism and the expertise of the rangers, and realized 
that I have visited over 100 national park areas and monuments 
over the past 50 years. This time spent with our national 
treasures taught me the importance of being an American and 
being part of something bigger in life.
    The National Park Service cannot achieve its mission 
without a well-supported workforce, and I am committed to 
focusing on the caretaking of this mission. Staffing, housing, 
and other issues are impacting morale and deserve active 
attention. I am also very aware of the concerns about the 
harassment of National Park Service employees, particularly 
women, and I have always had a zero-tolerance approach on 
harassment and will bring this to the position if confirmed. As 
for the sites themselves, our treasured National Park System is 
not just lakes and mountains. The agency safeguards some of the 
country's most solemn and hallowed places--the bed where 
Abraham Lincoln died, the steps of the Lincoln Memorial upon 
which Martin Luther King, Jr. professed his vision for a better 
America, the graves of our service members and our presidents. 
Despite the clarity of the National Park Service mission, there 
are differences in opinion about how to accomplish it. In 
Indian Country, we expect an open discussion with the Federal 
Government prior to making decisions, not after the fact. If 
confirmed, I will bring this spirit of consultation to the 
Service as Director. I look forward to consulting with 
neighboring communities, stakeholders, local, state, and tribal 
governments, and Members of Congress, even when the 
conversations and topics are challenging.
    I can assure you that I take this responsibility seriously. 
I hope to earn your support to be the 19th Director of the 
National Park Service. I have appreciated speaking with many of 
you and learning from your insights. If confirmed, I am 
committed to provide for the protection, stewardship, and 
public use and enjoyment of our national parks. Thank you. I 
look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Sams follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Sams.
    Now we are going to have Mr. Crabtree.

   OPENING STATEMENT OF BRAD J. CRABTREE, NOMINATED TO BE AN 
    ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF ENERGY (FOSSIL ENERGY AND CARBON 
                          MANAGEMENT)

    Mr. Crabtree. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso, 
members of the Committee, it is an honor to appear before you 
today. I also want to thank my own Senator, John Hoeven, for 
his kind introduction. It has been a pleasure to work with you 
all these years since your first term as Governor of my state. 
It is a tremendous honor to be nominated by President Biden to 
be Assistant Secretary for Fossil Energy and Carbon Management, 
and if confirmed, have the opportunity to work with Secretary 
Granholm and the terrific team at the Department of Energy.
    As a native North Dakotan, I spent my early years hunting 
and fishing with my father, who was a deeply conservative and 
passionate conservationist, and I grew up among people who 
earned their livelihoods on farms and ranches and in mines, 
power plants, and oil fields. My wife, daughter, and I have 
also raised cattle and sheep, and have direct-marketed grass-
fed lamb and beef on our ranch in North Dakota for 15 years, 
where I still live and work today. Shaped by these experiences, 
I have dedicated my professional life to advancing energy 
solutions that fulfill our climate obligations while meeting 
the needs of people, communities, and regions that depend on 
traditional energy, agriculture, and industry. My work as Vice 
President for Carbon Management at the Great Plains Institute 
has built bridges--in some instances for the first time--among 
industry, agriculture, NGO's, organized labor, and others 
across different states and regions, and perhaps most 
importantly, between Democrats and Republicans.
    Carbon management, a mission priority of DOE's Office of 
Fossil Energy and Carbon Management, has been a principal focus 
of my work for 20 years. Beginning in 2001, I co-lead the 
Institute's ``Powering the Plains'' project. It forged private 
sector, NGO, and state policymaker agreement on a comprehensive 
50-year energy strategy for the Upper Midwest. This, in turn, 
informed the 2006 launch of an energy and climate initiative of 
the Midwestern Governors Association, for which I coordinated 
energy policy and climate advisory groups. This effort 
ultimately made groundbreaking commitments to carbon capture 
and storage at that time. In 2011, I co-founded and still serve 
as staff director of the Carbon Capture Coalition, an 80-plus 
member partnership of companies, labor unions, and conservation 
and environmental organizations that is dedicated to economy-
wide adoption of carbon management. Over several years, the 
Coalition actively supported legislation that became the 
landmark bipartisan reform and expansion of the Section 45Q tax 
credit in 2018.
    Finally, I understand the important role that states must 
play in implementing carbon management. Working with former 
Republican Governor Matt Mead of Wyoming and Democratic 
Governor Steve Bullock of Montana, my institute colleagues and 
I established the State Carbon Capture Work Group in 2015. This 
now 16-state work group has produced important analyses and 
bipartisan recommendations to accelerate commercial deployment 
of technology and infrastructure. I believe the United States 
must lead in developing technologies to tackle climate change, 
and the DOE's Office of Fossil Energy and Carbon Management has 
a key role to play in helping commercialize and deploy these 
technologies to decarbonize our energy and industrial system 
while maintaining reliability and affordability. Proving out 
these technologies at scale here at home enhances our 
credibility in persuading China, India, and other major 
economies to do their part, vastly increasing prospects for 
averting the worst impacts of climate change. Domestic 
leadership can position the U.S. to manufacture and export 
these critical technologies globally.
    Deployment of carbon management technologies also provides 
the opportunity to retain and create jobs at existing 
industrial facilities and power plants that consistently pay 
above prevailing wages, benefiting affected communities in 
energy producing and industrial regions of our country. At the 
same time, carbon capture and utilization technologies 
significantly reduce some traditional air and other pollutants 
that have long unjustly burdened many communities. Through 
responsible project development supported by DOE, additional 
pollutants of concern can be addressed. Recent and pending 
legislation before Congress substantially increases the scale 
and scope of the Office of Fossil Energy and Carbon Management. 
If confirmed, I commit to working with you to faithfully meet 
our climate commitments, sustain high-wage jobs and domestic 
energy industrial production, provide environmental benefits to 
communities, and position the U.S. for continued technology 
leadership.
    Thank you, Senators, for the opportunity to testify before 
the Committee today. I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Crabtree follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Crabtree. And by any chance, 
do you have a member of your family sitting behind you?
    Mr. Crabtree. I do not, sir. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Mr. Phillips, we are ready to hear from you.

OPENING STATEMENT OF WILLIE L. PHILLIPS, JR., NOMINATED TO BE A 
       MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION

    Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member 
Barrasso, and members of the Committee. I am honored to appear 
before you this morning as a nominee for the FERC. I would like 
to thank President Biden for nominating me and for his 
confidence in my ability to serve. I would also like to thank 
Chairman Manchin and Majority Leader Schumer for their 
leadership and commitment to having a full complement at FERC. 
Having been a regulator in the District of Columbia for over 
six years and a FERC practitioner for much of my legal career, 
it is the highest honor to be considered for this position.
    To my wife, Gabrielle, who is in attendance today, and to 
our two young children, Peyton and Tripp, your unwavering 
support is unmatched. I also want to recognize my mother, Ruby, 
and my sister, Lynn, who are watching from Alabama with my 
very, very large extended family.
    I cannot forget my dear friends and colleagues in the 
District of Columbia, Mayor Bowser, Councilmember McDuffie, and 
especially the devoted staff at the D.C. Public Service 
Commission (DCPSC). I thank you all for empowering me to 
continue this journey to serve the nation's capital and the 
nation.
    I also want to acknowledge my fellow state commissioners, 
who have entrusted me to serve in leadership roles at the 
National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners 
(NARUC), the Organization of PJM States (OPSI), the EPRI 
Advisory Council, and most recently, as President of the Mid-
Atlantic Council of Regulatory Utility Commisioners (MACRUC). 
Your professionalism and commitment to service continue to 
inspire me. Perhaps E. Urner Goodman said it best: ``For he who 
serves his fellows, is, of all his fellows, greatest.'' Since I 
was a young boy, I have believed in the values of servant 
leadership. It is in this spirit that I intend to serve at 
FERC, if I am confirmed.
    It is through my lived experiences--growing up in rural 
Alabama, attending the University of Montevallo, studying law 
at Howard University, working in private practice, and working 
as a regulator--that I have come to believe that any utility 
commission should have three goals: affordability, reliability, 
and sustainability. The cornerstone of utility service is 
reliability. Consumers and businesses and whole industries have 
to rely on the lights coming on when you flip that switch. I 
learned that lesson while serving at NERC (North American 
Electric Reliability Corporation). I worked with some of the 
sharpest legal minds in the industry to draft reliability 
standards for the bulk power system, including critical 
infrastructure protection standards. I have a keen awareness of 
the cybersecurity and physical security threats that we face as 
a nation. As the effects of climate change and extreme weather 
increasingly challenge the reliability of our grid, it is 
imperative that we work to ensure that our nation's energy 
infrastructure is resilient. Reliability depends on our 
vigilance against these threats.
    Like the millions of Americans who have faced financial 
hardships in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic, I have 
firsthand knowledge of the importance of affordable energy. I 
watched my own mother and grandmother do back-breaking labor in 
Alabama, only earning barely enough to get by, and then I 
witnessed them do the monthly ritual of spreading the bills out 
on the dining room table. And I have to tell you, utilities did 
not always make the cut in my household. And so it is never far 
from my mind, as I do my work, that there are many people who 
are less fortunate than even me, who depend on utility 
regulators to make sure that we have energy services that are 
efficient, at the lowest possible reasonable rates. However, as 
a regulator, I know that the public interest drives the work of 
the Commission. It demands that we work with an eye toward 
ensuring reliable energy for the grid today and a resilient 
energy infrastructure for the future, one that can meet the 
challenges of climate change. That is why I am proud of the 
work that we have done at the DCPSC to modernize our energy 
delivery system. If confirmed, these will remain priorities of 
mine.
    By balancing these three guiding principles and considering 
the arguments and positions of all parties to a proceeding, I 
would strive to fulfill the mission of FERC, and if I am 
honored to be confirmed, I stand ready to work with my fellow 
commissioners and FERC staff to do so. Once again, I thank you 
for allowing me to appear today and I look forward to your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Phillips follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    The Chairman. Thanks to all three of you. We appreciate 
very much your statements and your experience and your 
willingness to serve.
    First, I am going to start with Mr. Phillips' questions, if 
you will.
    Mr. Phillips. Yes sir.
    The Chairman. The first question I will ask, do you believe 
it is in the best interest to maintain energy independence in 
the United States?
    Mr. Phillips. Yes sir.
    The Chairman. And that means what in your definition of 
independence? How do you maintain that?
    Mr. Phillips. Well, thank you for the question, Senator.
    I believe in an all-of-the-above strategy with regard to 
the work of the Commission. I know that FERC is an economic 
regulator. They do not pick winners and losers. At the same 
time, I am very aware that we are in the middle of an energy 
transition. We used to say that the energy transition is 
coming. I think that it's here today. And I want to do 
everything that I can, if I am honored to be confirmed, to push 
forward innovation to achieve our goal.
    The Chairman. You know, pipelines and transmission is a big 
thing that you are overseeing and making sure that we have 
connectivity and making sure that the people can depend on that 
power being delivered when needed. So your thoughts on--as 
natural gas continues to be a large component--natural gas has 
switched, basically 20 years ago it was 16 percent of our power 
mix, now it is 40 percent. Coal was 52 percent, now it is 19 
percent. So transitions are going on. Renewables went from 9.5 
percent to 20 percent. So this is a changing mix, if you will.
    So your thoughts, basically--the important permitting role 
and the permitting role is this--pipelines. To move this 
product is so dependent today--we are having a hard time in 
some parts of our country, also, moving methane. We know 
methane is a tremendous factor against the climate, but with 
that being said, when I have gone out and reached out to people 
producing, they said they cannot get pipeline permits to move 
the methane so they flare it off. And so what are your thoughts 
on permitting pipelines and making sure that we are able to 
deliver the energy that is needed?
    Mr. Phillips. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman. I 
believe, as you stated, that no one would argue that there are 
efficiencies that can be had with regard to our pipeline 
certification for natural gas. This is something that, if I am 
confirmed, I would commit to work on. It is also something that 
I have done in my career as a regulator in DC.
    The Chairman. But also, methane, for the quality of our 
environment, we have to be able to capture the methane and use 
it in a more productive way than just flaring it or venting it.
    Mr. Phillips. Yes sir. I absolutely agree.
    The Chairman. Mr. Crabtree, we became a net exporter in 
2019, as you know, for the first time in 67 years in large part 
because of domestic surge that we had with fracking in oil and 
gas and also the reliance we have on nuclear and coal 
production, and geothermal is coming on and all the different 
things we call firm power. So we have firm power and then we 
have weather power and until we get the technology to take care 
of that--so your thoughts on those and the mix it would take 
for us to continue to be energy independent?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thank you for the question. 
Obviously, our first and foremost obligation is to ensure 
energy availability, affordability, and reliability. The Office 
of Fossil Energy and Carbon Management has a big role to play 
in that regard. You noted that there are a number of sources of 
dispatchable 24/7 power, for example. If we are to achieve net-
zero emissions, a goal of the Administration that I support, 
then we need to be deploying technology that allows those 
dispatchable sources of generation to continue to provide that 
reliable baseload support for the new low- and zero-carbon 
forms of generation that are coming online. Also, to ensure the 
long-term viability of our industrial production--that we are 
decarbonizing those industrial processes as well, sir.
    The Chairman. And Mr. Sams, the final question is for you.
    You have a long history and I enjoyed your resume and all 
that you have in your heritage and lineage, which speaks 
volumes of your understanding of our responsibility to the 
National Park Service, and with that, if you could give me your 
top priorities, as you seem them, because, you know, with the 
Great American Outdoors Act that we passed, we are committed to 
getting our parks up to standards, and deferred maintenance--
eliminating some $6 to $9 billion in that arena. What are your 
thoughts and what are your highest priorities right now as you 
see it from the perch that you are in now versus the perch you 
will be in very quickly?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Three priorities. One is the staff. One thing I have always 
learned in leadership, it is the people that are the most 
important and therefore, helping to improve the morale, 
listening to the staff, the long-term staff, and figuring out 
exactly what needs to be done to support them out in the field 
in order to be the good interpreters they are, to be able to 
take care of the parks in an appropriate way.
    The Chairman. The parks are getting inundated right now 
with visitors because of the COVID and we--people, want a 
different lifestyle.
    Mr. Sams. Yes.
    The Chairman. They are going to visit the parks.
    Mr. Sams. Yes sir, absolutely.
    The Chairman. And I am understanding you are understaffed.
    Mr. Sams. And we are. As I understand it, there is 20 
percent less staff than there was several years ago, but yet, 
we have seen this 20 percent increase at the parks. And so 
people are loving their parks to death. You know, the Senate 
has heard this since 1978 that this was coming and forthcoming. 
And so we have that backlog of maintenance. And I am very 
grateful to all of you here and the Congress as a whole for 
passing the Great American Outdoors Act so that we are making 
investments back into that infrastructure--making investments 
back into the staff--but it has to be done in a very clear and 
open way so that people can see the investments the American 
people are making into their national park system and those 
investments are going to last for the next 50, 75 years, or 
more. And so, I am committed to those three things early on.
    The Chairman. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Sams. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Senator Barrasso.
    Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.
    First, I have to ask all the nominees--prior to this 
hearing each of you swore under oath that your answers to the 
Committee's written questionnaire are current, accurate, and 
complete. Would each of you please verbally affirm that your 
answers to the questionnaire are current, accurate, and 
complete--the written questionnaire?
    [All nominees respond ``yes.'']
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
    Have any of you ever threatened the physical safety of 
federal officials, verbally or in writing?
    [All nominees respond ``no.'']
    Senator Barrasso. And have any of you ever been affiliated 
or collaborated with an organization that uses violence against 
fellow Americans?
    [All nominees respond ``no.'']
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
    Mr. Sams, to follow up on what Senator Manchin was talking 
about, the Great American Outdoors Act passed last year, and 
was signed by President Trump into law. The law specifically 
directs the Secretary of the Interior to address the 
maintenance backlog of our nation's parks and other Department 
of Interior lands. I agree with everything you said about the 
morale of staff and working on those areas. The specific 
backlog of deferred maintenance, there are lists of that, the 
needs, certainly for Grand Teton National Park in Wyoming, 
estimated $181 million, for Yellowstone National Park in 
Wyoming, $563 million. Specifically, what will you do to ensure 
that the Park Service successfully manages this deferred 
maintenance backlog, certainly in Wyoming, but also across the 
nation?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the question. 
And you know, we had this discussion. I appreciate your 
bringing this up. It is extremely important, again, that we do 
prove that with the methodology that we are using--that would 
be used at National Park Service--and I need to, of course, 
look at this and talk with the staff on currently how they are 
doing that. But those areas that are in most critical need are 
seeing that funding very early on because we have to stop that 
deterioration, and I want to make sure that those investments 
are very clear and open to the public and so that you would see 
exactly what we are doing.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
    Mr. Crabtree, today there is a Wall Street Journal 
editorial, an op-ed by Walter Mead, and the headline is 
``Energy Crisis Hobbles Biden's Green Agenda.'' And it says, 
``By artificially depressing fossil fuel production,''--which 
we are seeing--``and investment in the democratic world faster 
than renewables and other fuels can fill the gap, Biden policy 
promotes a multiyear, multitrillion dollar windfall for 
countries like Russia, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.''
    [The op-ed mentioned follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Barrasso. And even on the White House website it 
points out that the National Security Advisor has asked OPEC 
Plus, including Russia, to produce more energy because we are 
not doing it here in the United States.
    So if confirmed, how will you work to ensure that the 
Administration stops helping our enemies and competitors by 
killing American fossil fuel production?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thanks for the question. As you 
know, I come from a state that is a major producer of all 
manner of fossil energy resources as well as renewable energy 
resources and is a leading agricultural producer that depends 
on that economy as well. I am a supporter of an all-of-the-
above, low- and zero-carbon energy agenda, and President Biden 
and Secretary Granholm are as well. And if confirmed, I will be 
committed to advancing that agenda in the context of the Office 
of Fossil Energy and Carbon Management. The technologies that 
that office is tasked with supporting deployment of are the 
very technologies that would allow traditional energy 
industries--coal, oil, natural gas--to continue in a low-carbon 
economy and to produce the energy that our country needs, and 
to do so in conjunction with new renewable and other low- and 
zero-carbon resources.
    And as I mentioned in the previous question, there is the 
industrial sector as well, which is vital to our national 
prosperity and well-being. I really believe, Senator, that we 
have an opportunity to accomplish our energy security 
objectives as a country, to support our allies overseas with 
our energy exports, and at the same time to reduce emissions 
here at home and through those exports, to provide a lower 
carbon energy product to our customers overseas.
    Senator Barrasso. Mr. Phillips, in your prepared remarks 
you state, ``There are three primary goals of a utility 
commission and those are reliability, affordability, and 
sustainability.'' And I believe that what we are seeing coming 
out of the House--and the Democrats over there with their tax-
and-spend bill--threatens, actually, all three of the goals 
that you have outlined. You also said that the cornerstone of 
utility service is reliability. And I agree. I commend you for 
putting reliability first.
    As a commissioner, how are you going to do that? Will you 
put reliability first, and how will you safeguard that 
reliability?
    Mr. Phillips. Thank you for the question, Senator.
    First of all, I want to say, just at the starting point 
that I believe that climate change is real. I believe that we 
have a moral and ethical obligation to address it.
    To your question about how will we do this? I believe, sir, 
it starts with balance. I believe we have to have balance in 
our approach. I use the example of a three-legged stool. When 
you think about the integrity of every leg of the stool, it is 
important to the overall operation. If you have world-class 
sustainability, you can't do it and sacrifice reliability, or 
the chair will fall. If you have wonderful sustainability, but 
you have gold-plated reliability, no one can afford to sit in 
the chair. It makes no sense to me. So with that, sir, I 
believe that my approach, if I am honored to be confirmed, will 
be to seek balance in everything that we do.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
    Mr. Sams, welcome. It is good to meet you and I look 
forward to working with you. We have a challenge at the Valles 
Caldera National Preserve with illegal trespass cattle coming 
into the preserve from the neighboring Santa Fe National Forest 
and these cattle are currently damaging the unique subalpine 
meadows, the wetlands on the Caldera, and they are also having 
an impact on the Preserve's world-class elk herd. I just wanted 
to ask you, if confirmed, would you work to ensure that the 
Valles Caldera has adequate fencing to keep trespass cattle out 
of the Preserve?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator and thank you for bringing 
this to my attention. You know, I looked at this issue last 
night and yes, I am committed to figuring a way to ensure that 
there are no trespass issues and to working with the sister 
agencies, such as the Forest Service and the National Park 
staff to ensure the area is secured and preserved in the 
appropriate way.
    Senator Heinrich. There is a saying out West that fences 
make good neighbors. So I look forward to working with you on 
that issue.
    Mr. Crabtree, the promise of so-called clean coal faced 
what many would call a predictable setback recently when the 
carbon capture portion of the Kemper Plant in Mississippi was 
canceled after running $4 billion over budget, over $1 billion 
of which was taxpayer funding. Chevron has experienced a 
similar setback with their project in Western Australia. There 
are big engineering challenges, shall we say, at Project Tundra 
in your home state. Why should we continue to subsidize carbon 
capture technology when its track record is one of so many 
high-profile failures?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator Heinrich, thank you for the question.
    So let me start with the latter part of your question 
first--why should we support the deployment of these 
technologies? I would refer back, obviously, to the conclusions 
of the intergovernmental panel on climate change and recent 
modeling and analysis by the International Energy Agency (IEA), 
which makes it crystal clear that we cannot meet mid-century 
climate goals without economy-wide deployment of these 
technologies. That is clearly true in the industrial sector, 
but it is also true to a degree in the power sector. If we are 
to get to net zero in the power sector, we need dispatchable 
generation to complement renewable energy resources that are on 
a low- and zero-carbon basis.
    As far as the track record of carbon capture technologies, 
I would actually suggest that it is quite positive. If we look 
at any emerging technology, and the arc of that technology from 
early research and development to initial deployment to wider 
commercialization, there are project failures. I would note 
that the Kemper project did not fail because of carbon capture 
technology. It failed because the demonstration of a gasifier 
technology did not succeed. The carbon capture technology is 
long-proven and widely commercially deployed across the world 
and I----
    Senator Heinrich. But not economically deployed, and that 
is the challenge.
    Mr. Crabtree. I agree with you, Senator. We need a 
combination of support coming from the Department of Energy and 
its traditional authorities and you and other Members of 
Congress are supporting legislation--the Energy Act of 2020, 
the infrastructure bill. Impending bipartisan legislation would 
greatly enhance the policy framework that needs to be coupled 
with traditional tools and authorities of DOE to help these 
emerging technologies enter the marketplace with deployment, 
bring down costs, and we can echo or repeat the same success 
that we have seen with solar, which deployment brings cost 
reductions and then----
    Senator Heinrich. Well, I think the difference between any 
technology that is distributed--solar is a good example, but 
really solar, wind, even electrolyzers--is those things are 
highly distributed, whereas when you do large complex projects 
it is much harder to bring down those cost curves.
    Mr. Phillips, I wanted to ask you, in 2020 I led a letter 
to then Chairman Chatterjee urging the Commission to implement 
Section 219(b)(3) of the Federal Power Act. That section 
requires the Commission to encourage deployment of transmission 
technologies and other measures to increase the capacity and 
efficiency of existing transmission facilities and to improve 
the operation of these facilities. This would include smart 
grid technologies like power flow controls and other non-wires 
options. Do you support Commission implementation of Section 
219(b)(3) to improve the delivery of power over our existing 
transmission systems as well as the expansion that the Chairman 
talked about?
    Mr. Phillips. Thank you for the question, Senator. I want 
to be careful here because I know that the Commission has an 
Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (ANOPR) that it has 
released on transmission reform policy. I want to be very 
careful not to prejudge any particular issue. I can tell you, 
sir, as a general matter, I do support exploring all of these 
options to increase our flow and to increase our natural gas 
transmission capacity. Thank you for the question.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
    Senator Cantwell [presiding]. Senator Hoeven.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    Brad, you know we have been working very hard on carbon 
capture and sequestration in North Dakota. We actually started 
back in 2008. We are one of I think two states in the country 
that have all the regulatory approvals, both at the state level 
and from EPA, to actually capture and sequester CO2. 
Tell me, in this role, how you would propose to help us crack 
the code on carbon capture and storage off our coal-fired 
electric plants and make that not only technologically viable 
but commercially viable so that we can do it not only in North 
Dakota, but really across the country, and with that 
technology, continue to produce that low-cost, dependable 
energy with the best environmental stewardship? How are you 
going to help make that happen?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thank you for that question.
    Obviously, the regulatory framework that North Dakota has 
in place in partnership with the federal regulatory framework 
through the delegated authority is critical. In terms of the 
role and authorities of the Office of Fossil Energy and Carbon 
Management, we are seeing both in the context of this 
Administration and in Congress on a bipartisan basis an 
increasing emphasis on commercial deployment. And the first 
part of that process, as you know, started in the previous 
Administration with the funding of FEED studies to support the 
engineering that is necessary for large projects like this. And 
the next step is the opportunity to provide cost share and 
other support for these early commercial projects, be they 
industrial projects, capturing CO2 from various 
industrial facilities, or in the power sector. And those, of 
course, in the context of project development and financing can 
be complemented with the policy tools that are--the reform and 
expansion of the 45Q tax credit and enhancements that are being 
considered can complement what DOE can do to bring projects to 
the point of commercial feasibility and deployment.
    Senator Hoeven. Are you committed to supporting FEED study 
or funding for the front-end design, development--funding for 
projects like Project Tundra, loan guarantees to help these 
companies actually finance and put the carbon capture 
technology in place and then things like 45Q, the tax credit, 
to help them with the cost associated with it? Are you 
committed to helping deploy those programs to make it happen?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thank you.
    As you know, as a nominee, I am not yet part of the 
Administration. I cannot speak to particular projects, but it 
is my understanding and it would be my commitment that the 
purpose of these programs is to support the deployment of 
emerging technologies in the marketplace, be it the DOE loan 
program or DOE cost share and other things. And of course, that 
is obviously on the legislative side--the 45Q component of 
this--but again, as I said, that complements and leverages the 
ability of the Department of Energy to support projects of that 
nature.
    Senator Hoeven. And if approved, are you committed to 
helping deploy those programs to make it happen?
    Mr. Crabtree. I am absolutely committed to seeing the 
implementation of the programs, the authorizations in the 2020 
Energy Act, obviously it is pending, but there is further 
funding for those authorizations in the bipartisan energy bill 
as well as additional authorizations. And yes, I am absolutely 
committed to implementing the legislation passed by the 
Congress and the legislative intent.
    Senator Hoeven. And that support would be there both for 
geologic storage as well as sequestration?
    Mr. Crabtree. I am not sure--so geologic storage applies to 
all----
    Senator Hoeven. Geologic storage, sequestration, but also--
EOR--I should say, I'm sorry.
    Mr. Crabtree. With respect to EOR, storage through enhanced 
oil recovery is a fully commercial--it is a pathway under the 
45Q tax credit, as you know. It is a fully commercial approach. 
It has been demonstrated over decades. It first began 50 years 
ago. The focus of the Administration and the focus of 
bipartisan legislation in Congress is scaling up what is 
arguably a more neglected pathway for the future, which is 
saline geologic storage. As you know, we only have one 
permitted commercial-scale storage operation in the United 
States today. That is the Decatur facility in Illinois and for 
the viability, whether it is the power sector or 
decarbonization of the industrial side, it is urgent that we 
scale up saline geologic storage. It is very important to 
industry for reasons of the long-term storage capacity to 
geographic distribution of those reservoirs, but also the 
ability to reduce carbon emissions even deeper, long-term.
    Senator Hoeven. Right, but I am talking about both EOR and 
geologic storage.
    Mr. Crabtree. I cannot speak to--in terms of specific 
projects at DOE--whether there is a decision about actually 
providing support for projects that rely on EOR storage, per 
se, but I am committed to supporting all pathways.
    Senator Hoeven. All right. Mr. Chairman, I guess I am over 
my time. So I will stop at this point. Thank you.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    I am calling on myself next and then Senator Lankford or 
Marshall, whoever is here, followed by Senator Hirono. So thank 
you, all.
    I want to start with you, Mr. Phillips. We had a chance to 
have a conversation, but I just want to clarify for the record, 
do you support the anti-manipulation authority that FERC has 
and its continued use in policing energy markets?
    Mr. Phillips. Yes.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    One of the other issues that my colleague, Senator 
Heinrich, just touched on and I am sure others, is this issue 
of how we grow and continue to diversify. In the Northwest, 
even though we are a hydro state, I guarantee you that climate 
is impacting snowpack, which then impacts hydro, which then has 
many impacts. So we want to diversify, and PNNL, our Pacific 
Northwest National Laboratory, is a leader in battery storage 
and also released a study called the Seam Study, evaluating the 
costs and benefits of strengthening our interties and seams 
between western and eastern power grids. The balkanization is 
definitely costing us, and so I want to make sure that I 
understand. Do you believe we need to do more to connect 
regional grids and install transmission capacity to transfer 
power where it is needed? And do you believe we should be 
encouraging more investment in interties?
    Mr. Phillips. Yes, yes, absolutely.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    We will get back to you on more details, but obviously, 
before us is a big infrastructure investment plan that would do 
just this, and I think we should be doing more on this if we 
want to empower more solutions, particularly on the battery 
storage side.
    Okay, I need to go to Mr. Sams, thank you so much. I wanted 
to ask you--obviously we made a major investment in our public 
lands with the investments that we did in the Great American 
Outdoors Act, for which this Committee played a major role in 
trying to alleviate the backlog in maintenance. And obviously, 
parks, as you know, in the Pacific Northwest are big business. 
They generate $2.3 billion in state and local revenue in our 
state and over 100,000 jobs on all public lands. So helping to 
fix the backlog in maintenance--we have $427 million in 
deferred maintenance. There are projects at Olympic National 
Park. It is a 50-year-old water treatment facility that needs 
upgrading, and we need investment in campgrounds at Mount 
Rainier and sidewalks and visitor center upgrades at Paradise. 
So are those things that you can commit to--taking care of this 
backlog in maintenance in our national parks?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator. Yes, I am committed to 
reviewing all of that in the process that the National Park 
Service is currently using. While I am not currently in the 
Service, I have been talking with a number of folks about this. 
I am committed to making sure those that are in most critical 
need of repair are prioritized so that they can be taken care 
of--and again, with an eye on ensuring that they will be usable 
for the next 50 to 75 years.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you. Do you believe there are 
enough staff on the ground to work on improving our parks?
    Mr. Sams. Senator, thank you for the question. As you know, 
the staff are down by 20 percent from just several years ago. I 
think that there needs to be some looking at restaffing so that 
we can get more boots on the ground to help with these issues.
    Senator Cantwell. And how would you suggest we do that?
    Mr. Sams. It will be looking at figuring out the workforce 
development and how workforce development and recruitment 
currently is going on, ensuring that we are preparing the next 
generation of rangers to be able to be in that part of the 
workforce by having a diverse workforce and recruiting those 
folks to come in. The Federal Government has a number of ways 
of doing that, and I look forward, if confirmed, to working on 
those ways to ensure that there are avenues for more folks to 
come into the Service.
    Senator Cantwell. So how will we ensure to allocate dollars 
efficiently for the National Park Service? I look at this and 
think--look at yourself, look at other people in the Park 
Service. I feel like I have met so many young people who have 
come from all over the United States. I think about our former 
colleague, Congressman Dingell, who told me that he worked in 
our National Park System. This is a job a lot of people would 
like. So how do we increase this opportunity and communication 
to people, particularly at this time?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator.
    You have to go out and recruit people where they are at, 
not where you want them to come and I think we need to get out 
into the community and be able to do that. You know, I had the 
great pleasure of working for the City Volunteer Corps of New 
York in the 90's and working at Grant's Tomb, and that is 
really what inspired me to think of, you know, how does the 
National Park Service work? What does it protect and preserve, 
and how do we get people in there? My own experience is when 
you walk in the footsteps of your fellow Americans in these 
places, these hallowed halls, the hallowed lands, you get that 
invigoration. So if we can go out and recruit people, bring 
them into the parks, show them that and show them that there 
are career paths forward for them, I think that is how we get 
the recruitment done.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    Senator Marshall.
    Senator Marshall. Thank you, Madam Chair. Welcome, 
everybody. My first question is for Mr. Sams. Mr. Sams, about 
six years ago, we had our first grandchild and my wife and I 
were having the conversation of what is next in life, and we 
went through our bucket list. As I recall the conversation, it 
started off like, we have done your bucket list and now it is 
time for her bucket list. And on the bucket list was to go to 
every National Park in the United States, and we have made a 
big dent in that. I did not realize--423 areas that we have to 
get to now. So that is quite a challenge.
    Would you describe that you have a labor shortage or a 
labor problem right now at the National Park Service?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator.
    I believe there is just a lack of staffing. We are down 20 
percent for a number of reasons. So when you look at that and 
the amount of people that are coming into the parks, there is 
definitely a need for additional staff to help with the 
overcrowding issue to ensure that the preservation is taking 
effect, to ensure we have enough interpreters out on the 
grounds.
    Senator Marshall. Sure. Do you have any idea what 
percentage of the staff is not vaccinated?
    Mr. Sams. I do not have that information, Senator.
    Senator Marshall. Do you think a vaccine mandate would make 
the labor shortage worse if it were to go into effect?
    Mr. Sams. You know, I would look to the CDC and the 
Administration on that.
    Senator Marshall. I understand that and I do, I support 
vaccines, but if your industry is like every industry I know--
20, 30 percent of people are not vaccinated yet--and I 
encourage those people to talk to their doctor about the pros 
and cons of the vaccine, but there is a large number. And I 
think you would agree with me that it could make a bad problem 
even worse.
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator. I do. You know, I served as 
the incident commander for the Confederate Tribes Umatilla 
Indian Reservation for COVID-19, and I understand that 
importance of encouraging folks so that we can continue to make 
sure that work happened, but I will look to the Administration 
and the CDC on any----
    Senator Marshall. Of course, of course, yes.
    Mr. Crabtree, we had a great conversation yesterday. You 
know as much about carbon capture as anybody I have met so far, 
and I look forward to working with you. Certainly, we share so 
many of the same goals and the same passions to leave this 
great world we live in healthier, cleaner, and safer than we 
found it. And I think that carbon capture could be a huge part 
of that. Biofuels, I think, have some great opportunities 
already across Kansas, many states, your home state. Ethanol 
plants are already doing carbon capture as well, going forward.
    I am always surprised as I look at the White House's policy 
on our environment--that they leave out biofuels and do not 
look to it. Already, but right now, we could cut tailpipe 
emissions in half for this world if we would go to E15. Cut it 
in half again if we went to E30. Why does this White House not 
include biofuels in any of their solutions for the environment?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator, first of all, thank you for meeting 
with me yesterday. I, too, enjoyed our conversation as we 
talked about multiple trips to your state to talk about the 
opportunities for carbon management on the ground in Kansas and 
they are significant. As far as biofuels, one thing we didn't 
talk about a lot is the specific opportunity in the context of 
continuing to reduce the--biofuels are already a low-carbon 
fuel, and make a significant contribution to our nation's 
energy supply, but there are considerable opportunities to 
further reduce the carbon footprint of biofuels through carbon 
capture, the CO2 produced from fermentation.
    The major challenge there is not technological. We have 
been capturing CO2 from ethanol plants for many, 
many years. The challenge is infrastructure. The buildout of 
CO2 transport and storage infrastructure is a 
priority of the Department of Energy, of the office that, if 
confirmed, I would be representing, and it is also a priority 
of bipartisan legislation in the Congress.
    Senator Marshall. Will that infrastructure require 
pipelines?
    Mr. Crabtree. Yes, it absolutely would. And I think there 
is an opportunity on a regional basis in your state and 
surrounding states that are ethanol producers to knit those 
ethanol plants together in a pipeline network that would take 
that CO2 to geologic storage locations and it would 
create an economic opportunity for that industry because, as 
you know, states like California have state policies such as 
the low-carbon fuel standard, that reward those further 
emissions reductions. And so it would actually create market 
opportunity for biofuels.
    Senator Marshall. Thank you. I need to move on now.
    Mr. Phillips, as you are aware, this past winter, February, 
we had a huge winter freeze. Energy prices went up 
exponentially. My folks back home are going to have their 
heating bill double for the next 10 years because of that. So 
two questions: Who do you think made all the money? Who 
profited from that situation? And then, what can FERC's role be 
in the future to help prevent those big energy cost spikes from 
going up?
    Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Senator.
    First of all, let me say, what happened with Winter Storm 
Uri--it shouldn't have happened, to be clear. People have an 
expectation that the power is going to be on and that is 
something that I will work to continue to do. With regard to 
who made the money, I want to be clear here. NERC and FERC, 
they have an ongoing inquiry into this situation, and so we do 
not know all the facts. We do not know everything that 
happened, but I can promise you this, if given the opportunity 
to serve, I will make sure and look for ways that FERC--the 
Federal Government--can help intervene to make sure that 
something like this, when you talk about people having to pay 
off this bill for over 10 years, that is something that I 
believe is unacceptable.
    Senator Marshall. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Congratulations to all of the nominees. I ask the following 
two initial questions of all nominees before any of the 
committees who come before me. So I will ask the panel en 
masse. Since you became a legal adult, have you ever made 
unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed any verbal or 
physical harassment or assault of a sexual nature?
    [All nominees respond ``no.'']
    Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered 
into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
    [All nominees respond ``no.'']
    Senator Hirono. For Mr. Sams, congratulations, in 
particular, on your historic nomination to become the first 
Native American to lead the National Park Service, and you have 
a long history of public service that makes you well-suited for 
this position. During your time at the Trust for Public Land, 
you worked with groups in Hawaii, including the Office of 
Hawaiian Affairs, to facilitate the acquisition of lands for 
protection, like the Wao Kele o Puna Forest on Hawaii Island 
and the Waimea Valley on Oahu. Through those efforts, I am 
sure, you quickly learned not only how unique Hawaii is, but 
the importance of relationships in the state and that 
experience will serve you well in your new role.
    Madam Chair, I have a letter of support from a number of 
Native Hawaiian organizations on Mr. Sams' nomination, which I 
would like to enter into the record.
    Senator Cantwell. Without objection.
    [Letter of support for Mr. Sams follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Hirono. Mr. Sams, I know that your testimony makes 
mention of your commitment to consulting various stakeholders, 
if confirmed, but based on your experience, what opportunities 
do you see for the National Park Service to enhance the 
partnerships with indigenous communities in terms of increasing 
visitation, representation within the workforce, telling of 
their stories, and incorporation of indigenous views in 
decisionmaking?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the question. 
Yes, I think that it is a great opportunity to express 
America's history in its broadest aspect. You know, I have 
watched the changes over the years when we looked at the--I 
have been to the Custer Battlefield when it was still the 
battlefield, before it became, you know, more of a memorial. I 
watched the growth of America as a whole to be able to talk 
about the history openly and honestly. I look forward to 
working with Native communities across the United States, 
whether that is in your home state of Hawaii, or with Alaska 
Natives and throughout the U.S. territories to make sure that 
the story can be told as broadly as possible. And I think it is 
important to be able to work with Native folks on traditional 
ecological knowledge in helping manage those spaces so that we 
are conserving them based on 10,000-plus years of management of 
those spaces to ensure that they will be here for future 
generations to enjoy.
    Senator Hirono. So if confirmed, I look forward to the kind 
of specific outreach that you will engage in with indigenous 
groups. In particular, I do not know if you have a copy of the 
letter that I just put into the record, but there are a number 
of Native Hawaiian groups that you have worked with over time.
    For Mr. Crabtree, President Biden established the Justice40 
Initiative to ensure that at least 40 percent of the overall 
benefits from federal investments in climate and clean energy 
go to disadvantaged communities. If you are confirmed, how 
would you apply that initiative to address the pollution burden 
that fossil fuel plants place on their neighboring communities?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator Hirono, thank you for the question.
    Environmental justice has to be a core commitment in 
everything we do in implementing the programs of the Department 
of Energy and the Office of Fossil Energy and Carbon 
Management, in particular. The types of projects that are 
supported by the office are indeed with facilities that have 
impacts beyond carbon emissions, be they power plants or 
industrial facilities, and there are communities that live in 
close proximity to these facilities. I mentioned in my 
testimony that carbon capture technologies and carbon 
utilization technologies do have some benefits beyond reducing 
carbon emissions, in terms of air pollutants and other types of 
pollutants. You have to manage those pollutants in terms of the 
carbon capture technologies themselves. That said, there are 
other pollutants that have burdened communities for generations 
that are not affected and it is incumbent upon the 
Administration and on me, in my role in this office, in terms 
of the demonstration projects and others that move forward, to 
make sure that we are taking those extra steps, mitigation 
practices, additional technologies and investments, to make 
sure that we are reducing that burden on communities.
    And I would also add that it is not just environmental, it 
is economic. There is an opportunity--working across 
government, other parts of the DOE, other agencies--to make 
sure that the jobs that are created through these projects, 
that members of communities that live on the front lines, 
actually have the opportunity to get some of those jobs.
    Senator Hirono. Mr. Crabtree, based on your answer just 
now, it seems that you have given thought to how you are going 
to implement this initiative on the part of the President. So 
if confirmed, I would really want to know specifically what you 
are doing in this area and you know, how the communities are 
benefiting. Thank you.
    Mr. Crabtree. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Cantwell. Senator Lankford.
    Senator Lankford. Thank you. Thank you all for your 
testimony today. I want to be able to drill down on a couple 
things you just said, Mr. Crabtree, as well. You are very 
familiar with enhanced oil recovery, where you inject 
CO2 into a site to be able to increase the amount of 
oil out of that well, but it also stores carbon then also into 
the formation itself. Is that something that you see as a 
promising technology? It is not new by any means, but is that 
something that is a solution to reducing carbon?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thanks for the question. Yes, I do. 
I would actually go further and say it is established 
technology----
    Senator Lankford. Right.
    Mr. Crabtree [continuing]. That has an opportunity to 
continue to contribute both to domestic energy security and 
emissions reductions, but it is a fully commercial technology. 
It started in 1972 in West Texas. As you know, Senator, your 
own state has examples of deployment of that technology. The 
role of the Office of Fossil Energy and Carbon Management is to 
support the development of and wider demonstration and 
deployment of emerging technologies. In the context of storage, 
which enhanced oil recovery is properly regulated and 
implemented, it provides a form of geologic storage, even 
though the purpose is oil production.
    Long-term, both for the benefits of the industries that 
need emission solutions and addressing climate concerns, we 
need to be scaling up and demonstrating saline geologic 
storage. Your own state and many regions of the country have 
large saline formations. They have the ability to store 
hundreds, potentially thousands of years' worth of emissions. 
So there is an opportunity that is greater than in oil and gas 
fields. There is also an opportunity, when you store 
CO2 in a saline geologic formation, to achieve 
deeper reductions, which ultimately benefit the industry that 
is emitting that CO2.
    So a focus of this department--and also even bipartisan 
legislation that has been passed and is under consideration--is 
on taking that next step and really proving out storage in 
these other types of geologic formations.
    Senator Lankford. So let me drill down on that a little bit 
more as well. How many wells would have to be drilled to 
actually do greater storage of carbon and how many miles of 
pipeline would you estimate would have to be laid to be able to 
do that? Because that has always been the conversation--the 
amount of pipeline. Where do you take it from where it is 
produced to and then storage?
    Mr. Crabtree. So there is an opportunity, and this would be 
a combination of DOE working in conjunction with legislation 
that is under consideration--there is an opportunity to build 
infrastructure for transporting CO2 larger than 
would be needed to accommodate the initial projects. So the 
SCALE Act--which is bipartisan legislation and President Biden 
also included that legislation in his American Jobs Plan, so 
there is Administration and Congressional support for this 
approach--would provide DOE the authority and the ability to 
provide low-interest loans and grant support so that this 
initial infrastructure on existing rights-of-way, wherever 
possible, could be built larger so that as new industrial 
facilities and power plants bring carbon capture online, they 
are building into existing infrastructure that has the smallest 
possible surface footprint.
    Senator Lankford. So what is your best guess on cost per 
ton of storing carbon--carbon that is produced from power 
generation of whatever it might be once you build in the 
capture, the transportation, and the storage?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator, that is so situation-technology 
specific. There are ranges for each type of industry and I 
could go through them with you, but I think it is probably 
better maybe to follow up on a question for the record than to 
take time with that detail here.
    Senator Lankford. Let's do it, because I have seen several 
ranges on that and obviously, that affects the consumer and the 
location, where it is actually produced, the type of geology 
that is there, the proximity to the locations for storage, how 
long the pipeline is going to be, all of those things.
    Mr. Crabtree. With CO2 transport, I can tell you 
though, as a general proposition, we need to build economies of 
scale. If we can do that, CO2 transport is very 
affordable, but if it is just project-to-project from one 
source of emissions to one geologic formation, then it costs 
more, like it would with electric transmission or anything 
else.
    Senator Lankford. Right. Thank you.
    Mr. Phillips, I want to just ask a couple of quick 
questions here.
    Obviously, FERC has lots of questions right now coming at 
them on reliability and getting an answer back. There have been 
a lot of variations of late where FERC laid out that 
environmental assessments were fine, then came back later and 
said environmental impact statements are going to be needed. So 
trying to be able to figure out getting a consistent answer and 
a rapid answer that is accurate the first time from FERC is a 
very important thing. What would be your role in that to try to 
make sure that we are getting timely, accurate answers?
    Mr. Phillips. I believe that FERC's role with regard to 
making sure that their decisions are legally durable is 
something that I will focus on. I do acknowledge that there 
have been many twists and turns, as you state, sir, but to be 
clear, the D.C. Circuit has been clear to FERC that they have a 
responsibility to consider climate change, environmental 
justice, and this is something that, if I am confirmed, I will 
also be focused on.
    Senator Lankford. I will pose a question for the record to 
be able to follow on this as well, because there are a lot of 
questions--just capital investment that are looking 30, 40 
years in the future, trying to be able to do capital 
investment, and trying to figure out where to be able to put 
those dollars. There is a balance between reliability and 
environmental issues. Obviously, these two sets of questions go 
together on how we are actually capturing carbon in the 
process, but people are trying to figure out where to go and 
where to invest dollars and if they have to pause on that, the 
American consumer is the one that is actually hurt in the 
process. So thank you.
    The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator.
    And now we have Senator Cortez Masto.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman 
and Ranking Member. Congratulations to all the nominees.
    Mr. Phillips, let me start with you. Electric power systems 
in many western states are under stress via wildfires, 
persistent drought, and heatwaves. We have seen that time and 
time again. It is now happening year-round. In fact, in 2021 
there was a summer reliability report in which the North 
American Electric Reliability Corporation recognized these 
concerns and warned that western states are at an elevated risk 
of energy shortfalls. We have been talking about that.
    From your perspective, what challenges still exist when 
assessing the vulnerabilities of our bulk power system to 
extreme weather and in developing appropriate actions to plan 
and adapt to mitigate these extreme weather conditions?
    Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Senator.
    In my time at NERC, I actually worked on similar reports 
that you are talking about regarding reliability, and as a 
general matter, I believe that it is so critically important 
that we address this issue and that we get it right. I want to 
applaud the people at NERC and FERC. I believe that they have 
some of the best legal minds and engineers working on these 
issues. This is something that I continue to pay close 
attention to and it is something that, if I am confirmed, I 
think that we should look for opportunities to do more 
collaborative work between FERC and NERC to make sure that you 
have a meeting of these great minds, that they come together. I 
believe that NERC has--under Section 215 of the Federal Power 
Act--they have, by design, a very narrow view of reliability, 
while FERC--its authority under the Federal Power Act is very 
broad. It involves everything from transmission, natural gas, 
dam safety. I believe that there is an opportunity to get both 
of these excellent staffs together, even at the senior level, 
to look for how we can better improve--even more--our 
reliability.
    Senator Cortez Masto. I appreciate that.
    Long-term transmission planning based on potential growth 
on electric loads and generation resource expansion will 
continue to play a critical role in maintaining the flexibility 
required for a reliable and robust transmission system. From 
your perspective, how can FERC accelerate and enhance 
transmission upgrades across the country?
    Mr. Phillips. Well, first of all, I want to acknowledge 
that FERC and NARUC--they announced this summer a joint task 
force to look at the issue of transmission reform. I want to 
actually say something about some of my colleagues. The Chair 
of the Pennsylvania Commission, Gladys Brown Dutrieuille and 
the Chair of the Maryland Commission, Jason Stanek, they are 
serving on this task force. As a Commissioner at FERC, I would 
pay close attention to the recommendations that come out of 
that joint task force and also pay close attention and 
participate to the extent that I can to make sure that we get 
to the right answers.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    And now, Senator Hirono touched on this, so let me ask Mr. 
Sams this question. If approved, how would you factor 
environmental justice into future decisions and efforts at your 
respective agency?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator, I appreciate the question.
    You know, environmental justice is an important issue 
across America. Folks, particularly people of color, suffered 
disproportionately on some of those issues. I think that by 
listening to those communities and talking to stakeholders, we 
can find that balance to bring justice forward and to ensure 
that things are repaired in a way that there are active voices 
in the community in those discussion points on how we do 
preservation in national parks.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. And you know, if 
appointed, I would hope that you would come to us and be candid 
with respect to your staffing concerns and issues that you have 
talked about, along with the backlog that we know is out there 
for our parks across the country. So please do not hesitate to 
come forward.
    Mr. Crabtree, there is no doubt you have extensive 
knowledge in direct air capture (DAC), and let me just ask you 
this--in your opinion, what additional growth in the clean 
energy sector will be needed to support the negative emission 
technologies?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thanks for the question. You are 
right, that is a part of direct air capture that doesn't get 
nearly as much discussion as the research, development, and 
deployment of the direct air capture technology itself, is as 
we scale this up, if you think about mid-century modeling of 
getting to net zero and then ultimately getting to negative 
emissions where we are pulling carbon from the atmosphere that 
we have already put there--that imagines a level of deployment 
that is at gigaton scale and the energy demands will be quite 
significant.
    I do not want to--I actually have reviewed analysis that's 
modeled levels of energy--I do not recall the specifics so I 
would be happy to address that in a question for the record.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Absolutely.
    Mr. Crabtree. But that, clearly, Senator, has to be part of 
the long-term planning as we think about--well, for example, in 
the Energy Infrastructure Act that came out of this Committee 
and now is in the bipartisan infrastructure bill, there is 
authorization for direct air capture hubs, as you surely know. 
And that creates an opportunity to start to think about 
creating the whole ecosystem that will be necessary to 
commercialize and deploy this technology, not just the hardware 
itself, but what has to be part of the whole system to make 
that work and deliver on its climate goals.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Congratulations again.
    Mr. Crabtree. Thank you, Senator.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Daines.
    Senator Daines. Chairman Manchin, thank you, as well as 
Ranking Member Barrasso. I want to thank the nominees for their 
willingness to serve in these important positions. I invite you 
each to come out to Montana and see firsthand how we understand 
balance--how you can have energy production to make sure you 
have great, high-paying jobs and reliable low-cost energy and 
at the same time, conservation. We figured that out and I hope 
you could come out and see what we do there and hope we could 
apply these principles and bring balance to this discussion on 
conservation and energy.
    Mr. Sams, Senator King and I recently held a hearing to 
examine the impact of increased visitation to our national 
parks and other park units. We have seen major increases in 
attendance at our national parks, parks like Yellowstone and 
Glacier--record visitation in some cases. Increased visitation 
can bring a lot of great benefits--more jobs, better revenues 
for our gateway communities, more people exploring and 
learning, and greater appreciation for the great outdoors--but 
increased visitation also has had an impact on our park 
employees, really stretching the limits on infrastructure as 
well as the landscapes.
    Mr. Sams, if confirmed, what actions would you consider 
taking to encourage visitation while also ensuring that our 
parks and our park employees are protected and have the 
resources they need?
    Mr. Sams. Well, thank you, Senator. First and foremost, I 
think that our parks are crown jewels. And many Americans and 
even many foreigners come to our parks to come and look at 
them--and I think encouraging to have that displacement pushed 
out a little bit further to some of the national monuments and 
other parks that are not necessarily seeing as many visitors as 
we would like them to--but I want to make sure that we have a 
campaign that is very inclusive to bring everybody into the 
parks so that they can enjoy these spaces.
    Your discussion--and thank you for your conversation a 
couple weeks ago--you know, the infrastructure issues that are 
needed to ensure that staff had housing, I think, is a critical 
issue in figuring out this housing, whether that is the 
reconstruction of housing within the National Park System for 
staff or whether that is public-private partnerships in those 
gateway communities and working with local communities and 
figuring out how we can help do housing development so folks 
can move in. I know in your state, people are having to travel 
as far as 50 miles away just to get to their duty station, and 
we need to be able to figure this out in those gateway 
communities and how to partner.
    Senator Daines. Yes, as you know, many of us who represent 
western states--they have discovered it is a great place to 
live and we have a lot of folks moving there and it is putting 
a lot of pressure on housing market prices, whether it is 
buying or renting, and that directly affects the employees, 
whether they are directly involved with the Park Service or the 
supporting businesses.
    Mr. Sams, last year we passed the historic Great American 
Outdoors Act. It really, I think, is one of these great 
achievements in conservation--perhaps the greatest achievement 
in 50 years. It will help restore the best in our national 
parks. If confirmed, you will be in charge of implementing that 
program. What actions will you take to implement this important 
legislation that we passed, and how will you ensure that 
funding is distributed fairly among the parks and the states, 
no matter their location or their size?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator.
    While I am not in the Service and, if confirmed, I do want 
to work with the dedicated staff there and really ensure how 
projects are being ranked and how the money is going out is a 
very transparent process, and that that information is shared, 
of course, with the Committee and the Subcommittee on those 
issues and wanting to make sure, if you will, the best bang for 
the buck--ensuring that the investments that the American 
people are making are going to those critical pieces of 
infrastructure so that they will be sustainable for the next 50 
to 75 years, looking at new technologies and ways to bring 
those technologies out onto the ground and find where those 
cost savings are.
    Senator Daines. Mr. Sams, thank you.
    Chairman Phillips, as you know, FERC's mission is to ensure 
consumers have safe, reliable, and affordable energy. If 
confirmed, you will be reviewing and approving natural gas 
pipelines, electric transmission systems, hydroelectric dams, 
and more. In Montana, energy production creates solid, great, 
high-paying jobs and supports our communities and ensures that 
the lights and the heat stay on during cold winter days. I have 
to tell you, I was speaking with one of our co-ops just 
yesterday, and they are very concerned on where the 
Administration is headed, taking us down a path where Europe 
finds itself today, with skyrocketing natural gas prices, 
skyrocketing coal prices and oil prices.
    Chairman Phillips, will you commit to reviewing proposals 
that come before you at FERC fairly, without political or fuel 
bias, and with a focus on FERC's core mission of ensuring safe, 
reliable, and affordable energy for Montanans?
    Mr. Phillips. Thank you and thank you for the conversation 
that we had about this topic as well. I can tell you as a 
regulator--what you just described, this is the core job. This 
is what I do every day at the D.C. Public Service Commission. I 
try to just focus on the facts, focus on the law, and try to 
come to a reasoned principal decision--a public interest 
determination. I believe that the public interest drives the 
work of the Commission, and that as a regulator you have to 
block out all the chatter and just focus on what is in front of 
you.
    Senator Daines. Chairman Phillips, thank you.
    Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator King.
    Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Crabtree, one of your responsibilities is natural gas 
and LNG (liquefied natural gas). To put it as gently as I can, 
we are seeing a doubling since last year of natural gas prices 
and at the same time, the highest LNG exports in history, and 
there are projects in the pipeline. We are now exporting about 
10 percent of our daily production. There are projects in the 
pipeline that will double that over the next year or so. Can't 
you do something in your regulatory posture that will relate 
exports to domestic prices? The low price of natural gas is a 
competitive advantage for this country, vis-a-vis the rest of 
the world. We are literally exporting that advantage.
    Talk to me about the relationship between domestic prices 
and exports. Senator Stabenow and I have been talking about 
this for five years. Now it is coming to roost.
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thank you for the question.
    In this, the LNG and exports of LNG and the domestic use of 
natural gas, they raise a series of concerns. On the one hand, 
as you know, providing LNG to our friends and allies overseas 
so that they are not dependent on production from our 
adversaries is a benefit to our country and to global security. 
Also----
    Senator King. I understand that, but not including doubling 
domestic price.
    Mr. Crabtree. No, I'm sorry, Senator, what I was going to 
say--but at the same time then it is the responsibility under 
the Natural Gas Act, in the review that the Office of Fossil 
Energy and Carbon Management of the DOE does to determine 
whether a facility is in the national interest--the concern 
about domestic prices has to be part of that consideration.
    Senator King. Are those studies done before approving a new 
LNG export license?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator, so----
    Senator King. In other words, are there studies being 
done--economic studies--to determine the effect on domestic 
prices of a given LNG export increase?
    Mr. Crabtree. So Senator, I want to be very candid with 
you. As you can see from my personal background, it is not in 
the area of regulating LNG, and I am very quickly doing the 
best I can to understand the responsibilities of this office 
and the roles and authorities of DOE, and it is my 
understanding that domestic natural gas prices are a very 
important consideration. As far as actual studies being done, 
may I get back to you in terms of a question for the record?
    Senator King. I have been asking this question for five 
years. It is my understanding that it is not one of the 
considerations that is being taken--that is being referred to 
in this process. Will you commit to me to looking at that issue 
and the relationship between exports and domestic prices?
    Mr. Crabtree. I commit to you, if confirmed, to work with 
the leadership at DOE to be responsive to this concern of 
yours.
    Senator King. Thank you.
    Mr. Sams, you have a very impressive resume. The only thing 
missing is--National Park Service. Convince me that you are 
ready to take on this challenge having had no experience as a 
park ranger or a park manager or otherwise having been involved 
in the National Park Service.
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator, I appreciate that.
    You know, for the last decade, I have been part of the 
executive team in managing one of our original reserves, which 
is in a reservation, literally, Umatilla Indian Reservation, 
which is an over 190,000-acre reservation, along with the six 
million acres of land, co-managing with local, state, and 
federal officials, and those will include also national parks, 
park lands, and other resources. And over my career, I have 
actually worked inside of national parks, mostly with 
volunteers and eradicating invasive species, cleaning up and 
doing preservation work in addition to providing additional 
lands to national parks when I was with the Trust for Public 
Land, and donating land, actually, to the national parks to 
expand parks for visitation. And over the last decade, I have 
worked very closely in my home state on a number of initiatives 
of Oregon's outdoor initiative and its parks initiative, 
helping the state director really figure out how we do 
traditional ecological knowledge, how we do interpretation.
    Senator King. When you take office--and I intend to support 
your nomination--when you take office, you are not going to be 
doing it alone. Will you commit to me to bringing in the 
executive infrastructure with the experience in the National 
Park Service to assist you in your management responsibilities?
    Mr. Sams. Yes, Senator, I will definitely commit to that. 
The long experience of the staff there is key to anything that 
I would ever do.
    Senator King. And this has been touched upon, but I think 
one of your first areas of attention should be staffing. I have 
a chart that I used at a prior hearing that shows Yellowstone's 
visitation almost doubling. The staff is pretty much the same. 
And in fact, staffing is something like 20 percent below where 
it was 10 years ago, and yet visitation at the parks is 
exploding. I hope that you will commit to a serious analysis of 
staffing needs because not only is it not serving the public 
adequately, but my understanding is it is driving down morale 
within the Service, and that is not good.
    Mr. Sams. Yes, sir. While I have not been in the Service, I 
have looked at their surveys, and I see that very clearly. I am 
committed to looking at the workforce development and how that 
is going to take----
    Senator King. Will you advocate within the Administration 
for increased funding to the Park Service for staffing?
    Mr. Sams. Yes, sir.
    Senator King. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Senator Murkowski.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Gentlemen, I appreciated the opportunity to visit with each 
of you by phone. I am struck that this is a pretty calm 
hearing, all things considered. The fact that we have a FERC 
nominee--we usually do not get such a calm proceeding. But in 
my conversations with each of you I have been struck that you 
come to these positions with a level of experience and 
expertise and you seem like rational men. So that is a good 
place to start today.
    Mr. Crabtree, I enjoyed our conversation yesterday. I 
shared with you that I have just come from Iceland, where they 
are leading in some pretty cool things when it comes to CCUS. I 
had an opportunity to be briefed by the folks at Carbfix, which 
really focuses on the sequestration, if you will, within a 
basalt geographic formation. And I was struck in my discussions 
with them in looking at the map of the United States and where 
we have identified significant geologic areas that could be 
these receptors. So it was a good conversation with my 
colleague, Mr. Lankford here, to talk about how this might play 
out in America. But it is something that I think we need to 
look to as we are moving forward with measures like 45Q, to 
make sure that it is not just salinity-based geologic 
formations that this is applicable to, but also basalt 
formations. So I share that with you. I hope you had an 
opportunity to look at what that Australian guy is doing with 
iron ore.
    Mr. Crabtree. I read the New York Times article last night, 
Senator. Thank you for flagging it for me.
    Senator Murkowski. So I am leading up to a question here, 
which is that you have been involved with this Carbon Capture 
Coalition here for a period of years. You obviously get briefed 
on some interesting things. There is a lot that people would 
say is pie in the sky. Coming from a state like Alaska, where 
we produce, I believe that CCUS is going to be the key for us 
to be able to continue to be producers. So I am curious to know 
what you feel is the most promising technology out there that 
can actually be moved to commercialization, sooner than later, 
rather than designs on some kind of a drawing board right now.
    Mr. Crabtree. Well, actually, Senator, there are so many 
technologies. Thank you, first of all, for the question, for 
your interest, and for meeting on your trip for the phone call 
yesterday. It was great to talk with you.
    I am actually struck by how many technologies have been 
demonstrated at least once at commercial scale or that are very 
close. One of the things that I am very heartened by in terms 
of the posture of this Administration--and frankly, of Members 
of Congress from both sides of the aisle and in the House and 
the Senate--is the urgency of commercial demonstration. We have 
the fruits of many, many years of work coming from the 
Department of Energy and, of course, the Office of Fossil 
Energy and Carbon Management in partnership with the labs, and 
with industry. The result of all those years of work is we are 
now ready to really ramp up deployment, and that is a 
combination both of the tools of an office and of DOE, where 
things like cost share and loans and things like that--but 
coupling them, as you pointed out, with the existing 45Q tax 
credit, potentially some of the enhancements that are being 
considered on a bipartisan basis.
    Senator Murkowski. I would suggest that we not just limit 
our sights to what we have been doing here, but there are 
strong examples around the world that we can look to so that we 
are not reinventing here.
    I am close on time here. I could spend all of my questions 
with you, but I want to turn to Mr. Phillips.
    I have mentioned Alaska's unique energy grid and our 
system, and we come from a state where hydropower is really the 
most reliable. It is certainly renewable. It provides somewhere 
between 20 and 25 percent of our state's energy, but so much of 
this is very small-scale projects, small rural communities. So 
some of the challenges that have been faced are that these 
smaller utilities have to go through the FERC for permits, and 
it is challenging. It is challenging from a process 
perspective. We want to gain the efficiencies from hydropower 
but too often what we see are permitting and legal efficiencies 
that make the cost of building out these small projects--they 
are already capital-intensive, but you go through the 
permitting process and now they are completely off the table.
    What can you share with me about your understanding of what 
we need to do to provide for this great resource, but also get 
it through a process that is designed for big-build, not your 
smaller utilities within your remote, rural communities?
    Mr. Phillips. Thank you for the question and thank you for 
your time when we talked.
    You know, one thing that I talk about a lot is efficiency 
and regulatory certainty and the decisions that a commission 
makes. We talked about that during our call. I believe that I 
will look for opportunities to make sure that your concerns, 
which I share, that people have some type of expectation that 
decisions that come regarding their livelihood, regarding 
reliability of their power, that these are decisions that will 
happen quickly. This is something I have been focused on and 
something that I will continue to focus on.
    Senator Murkowski. Well, I would encourage you to come to 
Alaska and see what we are talking about when we are mentioning 
what these small hydro projects really are, because I think for 
some who have been used to big hydro, they cannot even imagine 
the size, the scale that we are operating in within Alaska.
    Mr. Sams, you and I had an opportunity to talk about the 
Denali Park Road and what needs to be done with that as we are 
seeing that road now being closed, at least for the next couple 
of seasons there. We have an obligation under ANILCA (Alaska 
National Interest Lands Conservation Act) to the inholders 
there in Kantishna. You have told me you have been in there. So 
we have to make sure that we are able to keep the commitment, 
the obligation that we have to those inholders. We need to get 
a permanent regional director for Region 11 confirmed. That has 
been sitting open now for some time, and that creates a 
leadership vacuum there. We have some work to do, but know that 
that is something on which we want to stay in close contact 
with you.
    Mr. Chairman, I am well over my time, but thank you----
    The Chairman. No, never. You are never over your time, 
Senator.
    Senator Murkowski. You are so good.
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. Senator Hickenlooper.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Such blatant favoritism.
    The Chairman. She'll yield back her time to you, Senator.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Hickenlooper. So I am starting out at four minutes.
    Mr. Sams, I want to submit for the record a letter of 
support from Chairman Baker of the Southern Ute Tribe in 
Colorado in support of your nomination. Chairman Baker 
highlights Mr. Sams' decades of service to his tribe in land 
management and related issues, and his courageous service to 
our nation as a naval intelligence specialist and analyst 
during wartime. Mr. Sams, thank you for your service. We are 
honored to have you with us today, and I commend you for your 
commitment to this work.
    My staff submitted a copy of the letter to Committee staff 
for the record.
    [Letter of support for Mr. Sams follows:]
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    Senator Hickenlooper. Now, Mr. Crabtree, it is wonderful 
when I hear Senator Murkowski talking about basalt flows and 
other mafic lavas, to get that geology into the record, and I 
am not going to hold it against you that Matt Mead is a friend 
of yours and a supporter of yours. That is the former 
Republican Governor of Wyoming, who is a great friend, but I 
also commend you for your service and all the work you have 
done in looking at some of these innovations in clean energy 
technologies. And historically, these innovations have relied 
on a combination of tax incentives and DOE loans and grants and 
other forms of assistance.
    Can you talk just for a moment about how the newer 
technologies, such as CCUS and DAC that we have been talking 
about here, how does an operator's ability to intelligently 
combine multiple incentives or awards, how does it accelerate 
bringing these new technologies to market?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thank you. Thanks also for meeting 
with me yesterday. It was great to finally meet you in person. 
We missed that opportunity to connect while I was working with 
the other Governors when you were Governor of Colorado. So I 
enjoyed that.
    And that is a great question. There is a difference between 
emerging technologies for which there may be technological 
experience at commercial scale, but not actual commercial 
experience or commercial confidence in the marketplace, be it 
operational or among investors. And in those instances, there 
is greater commercial risk--investment risk--in deploying these 
technologies. And if, through public policy and through the 
programs of government, we want to make sure that we bring 
those technologies into the marketplace, achieve deployment, 
and bring costs down, it is critical that we are able to pair 
policies of traditional tools that the Department of Energy 
might have--loans, cost share, other types of, you know, also 
other agencies bring things to the table--pairing those with 
tax credits.
    And you know, there are many examples I could point to, but 
in the interest of brevity, one that I think people are aware 
of that is very important is utility-scale solar. During the 
financial crisis, as you know, the nation responded and 
Congress responded with the stimulus legislation that included 
funding for commercial-scale projects. And in the case of 
utility-scale solar, the early project developers were able to 
pair DOE loans with the investment tax credit and it was that 
ability to pair the two that made possible the first 
commercial-scale, utility-scale solar projects in this country.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Absolutely. And I feel that that is 
still--if you look at how successful that was and how important 
it was and you recognize it, everyone from Bill Gates on down 
the line realized that we were going to have to figure out how 
to get carbon out of the air, in addition to wind and solar and 
accelerating those transitions as well.
    Mr. Crabtree. Yes.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Pairing those together is obviously 
going to be very important. So I appreciate your work on that 
and your bipartisan approach.
    Mr. Phillips, thank you for your service as well. 
Obviously, the rest of the world is actively building 
transmission, adding to the grid, while we seem to be twiddling 
our thumbs to some extent. Since 2014, China has developed 260 
gigawatts of new, interregional transmission capacity. So that 
is 260 gigawatts. Would you like to guess how much the United 
States has developed since 2014?
    Mr. Phillips. I don't----
    Senator Hickenlooper. I don't want to put you on the spot, 
but it is three gigawatts. And I think that we have over 700 
gigawatts waiting in line to for those investments to allow 
them to get on the grid. So the need is there. China is out 
there and we appear to be somewhat out to lunch. So my question 
to you is, if confirmed, what can you do, what will you be able 
to do to help improve transmission planning and alleviate our 
interconnection bottleneck?
    Mr. Phillips. As I mentioned earlier, FERC actually has an 
ANOPR that is out right now to address just this issue. There 
were over 200 questions proposed in the ANOPR. Comments came 
in, initial comments on October 12th. I believe there is 
another round of comments that will come in on November 30th. 
And so you are asking the right questions, Senator, and I do 
share your concerns that we need to find a way, if we are going 
to meet our goals. I believe that electric transmission will 
play an important part in doing that.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great, well, thank you. Your work is 
every bit as important as anything, in terms of the transition 
of this country to cleaner energy.
    I am out of time, but Mr. Sams, maybe what I will do is put 
a couple questions to you into the record. Obviously, I spent a 
lot of time trying to make sure that we do get access to green 
space for everyone, and the Trust for Public Land, obviously, 
the big believer in this, we bought into some of their 
frameworks of making sure that everybody is within a 10-minute 
walk of a green space. You are going to be in a great position 
to help that. So I will hold off, not put you on the spot now, 
though I understand and respect you could easily answer any of 
the questions, but I will make sure that we get them into the 
record.
    Mr. Sams. Thank you. I look forward to it.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you. When the Chair is finished 
discussion with the great Senator from Alaska, I will yield 
back the floor.
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. You are yielding back your minus----
    Senator Hickenlooper. I yield back to the Senator from 
Alaska.
    The Chairman. Senator Lee, are you ready?
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to each of you 
for your service and for being here.
    Mr. Sams, I would like to start with you, if that is okay.
    We have had some issues in Utah. We have a lot of fantastic 
national parks. They are national treasures. People love to 
visit them. There have been some deferred maintenance backlog 
issues that we have faced. Some of these have become especially 
acute over the last year or so. For example, in the Glen Canyon 
National Recreation Area and at Rainbow Bridge National 
Monument, we are facing a real uphill battle as a result of 
water levels at Lake Powell. The water levels are low, and so 
low that when coupled with the maintenance issues that we have 
at Lake Powell, people are not able to access the lake. We got 
to the point where most of the ramps became unusable. They just 
could not access them. This is a real national treasure, one 
that people want to be able to access. They cannot really do it 
right now.
    So what I am hoping is that the National Park Service will 
figure out how to determine the $229 million from an emergency 
appropriation that can go to these things. And I hope it will 
figure out how to use it well. But on top of this, there are 
several additional projects that are meant to ensure continued 
access to water, and those are in the queue for the Great 
American Outdoors Act funds that have not been made a priority 
yet for the agency. Now, all this is interesting to me when we 
take into account the fact that Virginia and North Carolina and 
New York have gotten significant funds under the Great American 
Outdoors Act--receiving, in the case of Virginia, $247 million, 
$153 million in the case of North Carolina, and $50.5 million 
in the case of New York.
    Do you have any idea what the percentage of total federal 
land is that those states have? It is not significant. It is 
not at a rate that one would conclude based on the amount of 
money we spent there. In Virginia, they have 0.39 percent of 
the entire federal estate. North Carolina, 0.39 percent, also 
the same as Virginia. In New York, it is 0.03 percent of all 
federal land. And yet, the land that Utah has, as a percentage 
of the total federal land estate is 5.4 percent. Two-thirds of 
my state is federal land. Between 66 and 67 percent of the land 
is federal. We contribute greatly to everything from national 
park visitation to federal revenues achieved through oil and 
gas on our land. And yet, do you want to know how much money 
Utah has received in Great American Outdoors Act funding? It is 
only $7.3 million--$7.3 million out of the $1.6 billion in 
deferred maintenance funding for public lands nationwide.
    So Virginia got 15.6 percent of the funding with just 0.39 
percent of the land. Utah got 0.45 percent of that funding with 
5.4 percent of the land. That is less than half a percent. If 
Utah were to have received funding under that same legislation 
at the same rate as Virginia, all of the $1.6 billion in that 
act would have gone to Utah. Do you feel like that allocation, 
as I have just described it, is that fair and equitable? Is 
that a fair and equitable allocation of those funds?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator.
    I am very committed, while I am not currently in the 
Service, of really reviewing exactly how they come up with this 
formula and making sure that it is done in a transparent way, 
working with this Committee and the Subcommittee on this issue 
and bringing that back to you for review and discussion.
    Senator Lee. Great, I would appreciate that.
    And beyond making it transparent, what else can you do to 
ensure continued access to critical National Park Service units 
within my state?
    Mr. Sams. I want to work closely with you, Senator, and the 
members of your state delegation, along with the local 
stakeholders. My family and I are very much water recreational 
users. We understand that issue. My wife, who is right behind 
me, was a river raft guide on the Green River in your great 
state. We have been there many times to enjoy it, and I am 
committed to figuring out how to make this work.
    Senator Lee. Fantastic, fantastic. I imagine you visited 
Lake Powell in that instance?
    Mr. Sams. Yes.
    Senator Lee. In which case, you know what I am talking 
about.
    Mr. Chairman, I see my time is expired. I have one more 
brief question. Can I ask that?
    The Chairman. Oh, there is no problem at all.
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to 
compliment the Chairman for being such a good Chairman. He is 
fantastic. Handsome man, kind, benevolent----
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Lee. Mr. Sams, you are probably aware that when 
national parks were created, they were created in such a way as 
to make sure that they did not impede on low-impact economic 
uses, things like grazing. What can you do to help preserve 
these prior existing rights, like grazing, while taking care of 
our parks?
    Mr. Sams. You know, it is finding that important balance. I 
have worked on this with treaty issues across the United 
States, with tribes and with my own tribe, to ensure that those 
accesses are available, because they are not opposite, they are 
compatible as long as they are done in a respectful way. So I 
am committed to working with you on that if confirmed.
    Senator Lee. Great. Thank you very much.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    And now we have Senator Mark Kelly from the great State of 
Arizona.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I want to follow up on Senator Lee's line of questioning 
here about Glen Canyon National Recreation Area, Lake Powell, 
the water level being at 30 percent, the boat ramps. I just 
want to get very specific here, but along the lines of where 
Senator Lee was going here. Do you think it is possible, Mr. 
Sams, for the National Park Service to utilize funding under 
the Great American Outdoors Act to adapt Lake Powell boat ramps 
for drought?
    Mr. Sams. Well, thank you, Senator.
    I do believe that there is opportunity also to do 
additional fundraising for that effort and making sure that 
money has been brought to bear for the boat ramp issue.
    Senator Kelly. You say additional fundraising, but how 
about using the money under the existing Great American 
Outdoors Act?
    Mr. Sams. It is possible----
    Senator Kelly. Okay. And if confirmed, could you look into 
that for us?
    Mr. Sams. Yes, sir.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you.
    Mr. Crabtree, we are facing escalating fuel prices in 
Arizona and across the country. A gallon of gas now is about 
$3.34 in Arizona and nationwide. Families in my state cannot 
afford higher gas prices, while the price of crude oil 
continues to hover around eighty dollars a barrel. I understand 
that the Administration is engaging OPEC to increase supply and 
may even consider selling some of our oil from the Strategic 
Petroleum Reserve or restricting some U.S. oil exports. Mr. 
Crabtree, Arizona gets most of its gasoline by pipeline from 
refiners in Southern California and West Texas. If confirmed, 
do I have your commitment that any action the Department may 
take on rising gas prices closely examines how refinery 
capacity in both of those states impacts Arizona?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thank you for the question.
    Obviously, ensuring energy availability and affordability 
is job one. I commit to you, within the Administration, to work 
with leadership at DOE to do what we can in terms of existing 
authorities to address that. As far as the specifics of 
refineries, I would appreciate the opportunity to get back to 
you in a question for the record on something of that specific 
nature, if that is appropriate.
    Senator Kelly. Yes, thank you. Thank you for that. Over $3 
a gallon. We are a big state. You know, people have long 
drives. This is starting to get, I mean, it already is, it is 
incredibly expensive for families and we need to address this. 
Mr. Sams, I want to come back to you in our remaining amount of 
time here. My next question is about uranium mining around 
Grand Canyon National Park. Senator Sinema and I sponsored 
legislation that would protect Grand Canyon--the canyon and the 
water supply for the Havasupai Tribe from contamination from 
uranium mining. If confirmed, will you agree to meet with 
leaders of the Havasupai Tribe about this issue and any other 
concerns that they might have about the management of the Grand 
Canyon moving forward?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator. Yes, I look forward to 
meeting with them and discussing this issue. My daughter, who 
is sitting behind me, just returned from a trip there--from the 
Grand Canyon this weekend.
    Senator Kelly. Nothing like it.
    Mr. Sams. There isn't.
    Senator Kelly. Not only in Arizona, in the country, on the 
planet.
    Mr. Sams. Yes.
    Senator Kelly. And I have seen a lot of the planet.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Kelly. I think I have about a minute and a half.
    Mr. Crabtree, I want to come back to you for a second. I 
understand you are an advocate of carbon capture technology?
    Mr. Crabtree. Yes, sir.
    Senator Kelly. We have a cutting-edge program at Arizona 
State University that is working on direct air carbon capture--
the ASU Center for Negative Carbon Emissions. In June, the 
Department of Energy selected the Center to develop a carbon 
farm of mechanical trees that are 1,000 times more efficient at 
pulling carbon from the atmosphere. Are you aware of ASU's work 
with DOE and how would you describe its potential?
    Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thanks for the question. I am 
generally aware of ASU's work. I have had the opportunity and 
the privilege to meet with some of the individuals involved. 
One of them, as you know, is famous in the field for his 
leadership--and I would argue it is direct air capture, but 
also carbon utilization as well, taking captured carbon and 
transforming it into valuable products and reducing emissions 
in the process. So ASU has clearly stepped up early in playing 
a leadership role. And if confirmed, I very much look forward 
to working with the team at ASU on the things that they are 
doing.
    Senator Kelly. Well, thank you, Mr. Crabtree and I yield 
back 10 seconds.
    The Chairman. Oh my God, I can't believe it.
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. I feel like I am rich with time.
    Let me say this to all of you, I want to thank all of you 
for your willingness to serve in these high positions and most 
needed positions for our government, coming here and answering 
in the most, I think, professional manner, the way you all 
handled yourselves. I feel very confident we have three 
nominees that are going to be confirmed, with my dialogue with 
my colleagues on both sides of the aisle. And we are going to 
need your input, I can tell you, all through this process, 
because we have a long way to go and we have to bring this 
country together. We really do. And that is what your job is--
to help us heal the country and start working more as a united 
country and not allowing it to be more divided.
    So with that, I would like to say that members have until 
6:00 p.m. tomorrow to submit additional questions for the 
record.
    And the Committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:57 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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