[Senate Hearing 117-452]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-452
PHILLIPS, CRABTREE, AND SAMS NOMINATIONS
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
to
CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF WILLIE L. PHILLIPS, JR. TO BE A MEMBER OF
THE FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION, BRAD J. CRABTREE TO BE AN
ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF ENERGY (FOSSIL ENERGY AND CARBON MANAGEMENT),
AND CHARLES F. SAMS III TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
__________
OCTOBER 19, 2021
__________
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
46-059 WASHINGTON : 2023
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COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
Renae Black, Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Cantwell, Hon. Maria, a U.S. Senator from Washington............. 1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
Wyoming........................................................ 2
Wyden, Hon. Ron, a U.S. Senator from Oregon...................... 4
Hoeven, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from North Dakota.............. 5
WITNESSES
Sams III, Charles F., nominated to be Director of the National
Park Service................................................... 7
Crabtree, Brad J., nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of
Energy (Fossil Energy and Carbon Management)................... 11
Phillips, Jr., Willie L., nominated to be a Member of the Federal
Energy Regulatory Commission................................... 16
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Barrasso, Hon. John:
Opening Statement............................................ 2
Wall Street Journal op-ed entitled ``Energy Crisis Hobbles
Biden's Green Agenda'' by Walter Russell Mead, dated
October 18, 2021........................................... 24
Bowser, Hon. Muriel, Mayor of Washington, D.C.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 6
Cantwell, Hon. Maria:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
Coalition of Oregon Land Trusts:
Letter for the Record........................................ 102
Coalition To Protect America's National Parks:
Letter for the Record........................................ 103
Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Nation:
Letter for the Record........................................ 105
Confederated Tribes of Siletz Indians:
Letter for the Record........................................ 106
Crabtree, Brad J.:
Opening Statement............................................ 11
Written Testimony............................................ 13
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 74
Hoeven, Hon. John:
Opening Statement............................................ 5
Kua`aina Ulu `Auamo et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 36
National Association of Tribal Historic Preservation Officers:
Letter for the Record........................................ 107
National Park Foundation and National Park Friends Alliance:
Letter for the Record........................................ 108
National Trust for Historic Preservation:
Letter for the Record........................................ 109
Phillips, Jr., Willie L.:
Opening Statement............................................ 16
Written Testimony............................................ 18
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 84
Sams III, Charles F.:
Opening Statement............................................ 7
Written Testimony............................................ 9
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 59
Southern Ute Indian Tribe:
Letter for the Record........................................ 50
Western Leaders Network:
Letter for the Record........................................ 111
Wyden, Hon. Ron:
Opening Statement............................................ 4
PHILLIPS, CRABTREE, AND SAMS NOMINATIONS
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TUESDAY, OCTOBER, 19, 2021
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:00 a.m. in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Senator Maria
Cantwell, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARIA CANTWELL,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON
Senator Cantwell [presiding]. The Senate Energy and
Interior Committee will come to order. I am filling in for
Senator Manchin, who is on his way and will be joining us
shortly.
We meet today to consider three pending nominations. The
nominations are: Mr. Willie Phillips to be a Federal Energy
Regulatory Commission (FERC) member, Mr. Brad Crabtree to be
the Assistant Secretary of Energy for Fossil Energy and Carbon
Management, and Mr. Charles Sams to be the Director of the
National Park Service. Welcome to all of you. Thank you for
your willingness to serve. Each of you will be able to welcome
your family members soon, so thank them for being here as well.
Our first nominee, Mr. Phillips, has been nominated to fill
the seat on the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission vacated by
Mr. Neil Chatterjee at the end of August. I have said that the
best FERC is one that is fully seated. I am pleased to have Mr.
Phillips' nomination before us this morning so we can get FERC
back to its full strength as soon as possible. I am especially
pleased that the President has nominated someone of Mr.
Phillips' stature and experience. The law establishing FERC
says that members of the Commission shall be individuals, who
by demonstrated ability, background, training, and experience,
are specifically qualified to assess fairly the needs and
concerns of all affected by the Federal Energy Regulatory
Commission, and Mr. Phillips meets that test.
He has regulated natural gas and electric utilities as a
member of the District of Columbia's Public Service Commission
for the past seven years. He has chaired the Commission for the
past three years and has worked in the energy field for nearly
20 years as a regulator and as the Assistant General Counsel
for the North American Electric Reliability Corporation
(NAERC), and as a lawyer representing utility clients. As a
regulator, he has shouldered the responsibility for keeping the
lights on at natural gas lines and to keep people safe and
rates low for individuals. He will bring a valuable,
experienced perspective to the Commission and I am pleased to
support his nomination.
Our next nomination is Mr. Brad Crabtree, who has been
nominated to be the Assistant Secretary of Energy for Fossil
Energy and Carbon Management. Although the title is new, the
office has been there for more than 40 years and its statutory
basis is still older--older than even the Department itself.
Over 60 years ago, the Coal Research Act of 1960 directed the
Secretary of the Interior to develop thorough research and new
and more efficient methods of using our abundant coal resources
for the nation's benefit. This duty still exists and now rests
with the Assistant Secretary of Fossil Energy and Carbon
Management. The role fossil fuels play in our energy mix and
their impact on global climate change has changed dramatically,
but we will need to continue to meet our energy needs and that
is why research and development on fossil fuel and carbon
management is even more important than ever. I understand that
Mr. Crabtree, you have been the Great Plains Institute Vice
President for Carbon Management over the last nine years. You
have previously testified the on the importance of carbon
capture use and storage technologies, and have worked with
state officials to promote their development. I look forward to
hearing your thoughts on how we manage this resource.
Mr. Sams, our third nominee, has been nominated to lead the
National Park Service. This Committee oversees dozens of
offices, bureaus, and services that perform important
regulatory or management functions, but none has a deeper
connection with the American people than the National Park
Service. The National Park Service is a steward and guardian of
our nation's most iconic landscapes and its most treasured and
historic lands. It manages them for the benefit and enjoyment
of the American people, and it has a duty to preserve these for
future generations. Our national parks and our national
heritage, I believe, are priceless treasures, so serving as the
Director of the Park Service is a sacred trust, and remarkably,
the National Park Service has been without a Senate-confirmed
director since January 2017, the longest lapse in the office,
which was established in 1916. So by law, the Director of the
National Park Service must have substantial experience and
competence in land management and natural and cultural
resources. Mr. Sams clearly has worked in the natural
resources/conservation field for over 25 years and clearly
meets that test, but I also want to congratulate you. I know
Senator Wyden is going to be here, I think, to also add
comments, or maybe formally introduce you. You will be the
first Native American person to serve as Park Director, so that
is a big moment for all of us as you are a member of the
Umatilla Tribe and someone from the Pacific Northwest. So
congratulations on your nomination.
At this point, I turn to our Ranking Member, Senator
Barrasso, for his opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you very much, Madam
Chairman, and I would also like to add my welcome to Mr. Sams,
Mr. Phillips, and Mr. Crabtree, to the Senate Energy and
Natural Resources Committee and congratulations to each of you
on these nominations.
Mr. Sams has been nominated to serve as Director of the
National Park Service. If confirmed, he would be the first
enrolled tribal member, as you have mentioned, to serve in this
position. He has worked in state and tribal governments and in
the nonprofit, natural resource, and conservation management
fields now for more than 25 years. When asked about Mr. Sams'
nomination by E&E news last month, Senator King, who is the
Chairman of the Subcommittee on National Parks said, ``My only
concern is that he doesn't have any direct experience with the
National Parks or National Park Service, but I am reserving
judgment.'' I share Senator King's concern and I am also
reserving judgment. I would like to hear more today about Mr.
Sams' vision for the National Park Service.
I hope Mr. Sams will commit to working with me and other
stakeholders in Wyoming to continue to maintain and improve our
state's beautiful national parks. One issue that needs to be
addressed is transportation in the Grand Teton National Park.
If he is confirmed, I would look forward to working with him to
improve visitor access and safety in the Moose-Wilson corridor.
I also hope Mr. Sams will work with me to allow the public to
more easily film and share their national park visits without
the requirement of a permit to do so. I have introduced
legislation to address this issue.
Mr. Phillips has been nominated to serve as a Commissioner
on the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission--the FERC. Mr.
Phillips has nearly two decades of experience as a utility
regulator and an attorney in private legal practice. If
confirmed, Mr. Phillips would play an important role in
regulating electricity and natural gas so that all Americans
benefit from affordable and reliable energy. As an independent
regulator, Mr. Phillips would also have the opportunity and the
obligation to explain the disastrous consequences of reckless
policies that House Democrats want to ram through Congress.
House Democrats want to end all new oil and natural gas
production on federal lands and waters. If enacted, these
policies would surrender America's energy independence to OPEC
and to Russia.
House Democrats also want to impose a natural gas tax on
American families and businesses. At a time when inflation is
at its highest level since 2008, Democrats in the House want to
make it more expensive for American families to heat and power
their homes. The House Democrat plan would also establish a so-
called ``Clean Electricity Performance Program.'' This scheme
would use an estimated $150 billion of taxpayer money to pay
off the largest utilities in the country to install wind
turbines and solar panels. It would also allow those utilities
to charge their customers for new transmission lines to service
these facilities. I would like to hear from Mr. Phillips on how
he thinks these policies will impact the affordability and the
reliability of electric and natural gas services.
Mr. Crabtree has been nominated to serve as Assistant
Secretary for Fossil Energy and Carbon Management at the
Department of Energy. Mr. Crabtree has worked in the carbon
capture space for over two decades. He is well aware that
Wyoming leads the nation in carbon capture research. Wyoming is
investing millions of dollars in carbon capture development as
a way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Mr. Crabtree's
support of carbon capture research is a sign that he
understands the important role that fossil fuels must play in
our nation's energy future.
Congratulations to each of you as the nominees. I look
forward to hearing your testimony.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
The rules of the Committee, which apply to all nominees,
require that they be sworn in in conjunction with their
testimony. So if you would, please stand and raise your right
hands.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you are about
to give to the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
[All nominees respond ``I do.'']
Senator Cantwell. You may be seated.
Before you begin your statements, I would like to ask three
questions to each of the nominees.
One, will you be available to appear before the Committee
and other Congressional committees to represent department
positions and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
[All nominees respond ``yes.'']
Senator Cantwell. Second, are you aware of any personal
holdings, investments, or interests that could constitute a
conflict of interest or create the appearance of such a
conflict, should you be confirmed and assume the office to
which you have been nominated by the President?
[All nominees respond ``no.'']
Senator Cantwell. Three, are you involved or do you have
any assets held in a blind trust?
[All nominees respond ``no.'']
Senator Cantwell. Okay. Before we go to the nominees'
statements, I would like to recognize Senator Wyden, who is
here to introduce Mr. Sams to the Committee.
Senator Wyden, if you are ready, thank you for joining us.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RON WYDEN,
U.S. SENATOR FROM OREGON
Senator Wyden. Thank you, Senator Cantwell. It is a
pleasure to be able to introduce Chuck Sams of Oregon,
President Biden's nominee to be the next Director of the
National Park Service.
Now, the Park Service, colleagues, we all know, is not just
about pretty places and photo ops. As Director, Chuck Sams will
be responsible for an organization of more than 22,000
employees and almost 222,000 volunteers at park units in every
state in the country, generating almost $40 billion for our
economy. The Park Service does it all--from education to
maintenance, management of everything in our parks from
wildfire to roads to water and from urban parks to rural
parks--the National Park Service is an American institution
with extraordinarily deep community roots.
I have known Chuck Sams for years, and during our work
together, I have seen firsthand his commitment and dedication
to people and the outdoors. He has been a real leader and a
role model in the stewardship of American land and waters,
wildlife, and history. And as a longtime leader of the Umatilla
Tribe, he has shown a real commitment to his people and the
citizens of Oregon--and most recently on the Northwest Power
Council--to the entire Pacific Northwest. Finally, the Park
Service gives us the ability to reach places most Americans
would not or could not otherwise reach, and they play a vital
role in teaching us. I cannot think of anybody in America
better and more qualified to do this than Chuck Sams, with his
unique perspective as the first Native American to lead the
Park Service.
Colleagues, this is, frankly, long overdue. Chuck's going
to have a big job cut out for him. We know there is crowding in
the parks, a multibillion-dollar maintenance backlog, a
changing climate, which of course, produces an increase in
wildfires and droughts, and unfortunately, a workforce culture
fraught with gender discrimination and harassment. I will just
close by saying thank you to colleagues who have talked to me
about Chuck Sams. This is a person who represents the very best
of my state. He listens. He doesn't just listen, he hears
people and he cares and he follows up. So Chuck Sams, we are
sure glad you are here today, and all Oregonians this morning
are proud that you are here on behalf of our state and more
importantly, on behalf of the whole country, to outline how you
would proceed to tackle this extraordinarily important job, I
thank you.
Mr. Chairman, thank you, and I appreciate the courtesy as
well.
The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Wyden. Now we
have Senator Hoeven, who would like to make an introduction.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN HOEVEN,
U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH DAKOTA
Senator Hoeven. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like
to welcome all three of our witnesses. In particular, I would
like to welcome Brad Crabtree, who I have known for many years
and I know members of his family as well. He is from North
Dakota and attended the Georgetown School of Foreign Service,
and received a Master of Arts in history from Johns Hopkins
University. And as the Chairman said just a minute ago, he has
a lot of background with carbon capture and storage. In North
Dakota, we are attempting to do everything we can to crack the
code on carbon capture and storage. So I think it is important
that he has a background in that work. We very much look
forward to hearing from Brad how he intends to help us do
exactly that.
So again, I want to welcome all of our witnesses and
welcome Brad here today for this important hearing. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. And let me just say, I
would like to read a letter in support of Mr. Phillips. Both
Senator Barrasso and I have received a letter from Mayor Bowser
this morning which praises your strong acumen for the law and
business, your demonstrated ability to balance competing
interests to promote innovation, efficiency, and resilience,
and your skill and experience for consensus building that has
won the respect of colleagues, advocates, and stakeholders.
I ask unanimous consent to enter Mayor Bowser's letter into
the hearing record.
Hearing no objection, it is ordered.
[Mayor Bowser's letter follows:]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. We will now begin with our questions.
Senator Barrasso. They have to testify first.
The Chairman. Oh, I'm sorry. I am getting a little ahead of
myself.
Let's see who we are going to hear from first. So we will
begin with our opening statements, and Mr. Sams, you will be
first.
OPENING STATEMENT OF CHARLES F. SAMS III, NOMINATED TO BE
DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
Mr. Sams. Good morning Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member
Barrasso, and Committee members, and thank you, Senator Wyden,
for that kind introduction. I am joined today by my wife, Lori
Sams, and my oldest daughter, Rosevelie Sams. Our son Chauncey
and daughters Clara and Ruby are home in Oregon. I am honored
and deeply appreciative to be President Biden's nominee to be
the 19th Director of the National Park Service, and I am
grateful for the invitation to appear before this distinguished
Committee.
I am an enrolled Tribal Member of the Confederated Tribes
of the Umatilla Indian Reservation. I am Cayuse and Walla
Walla, with blood ties to the Yankton Sioux and Cocopah
peoples. On my American Indian side of the family, we have
lived here since time immemorial, or for at least 15,000 years.
I am also of Dutch and French descent. Two of my great
grandfathers came west to Oregon in the 1800's. Hendrick Sams
immigrated to the American colonies in the mid-1700's, and his
descendants came west on the Oregon Trail in the 1850's. My
great grandfather, Joseph Larocque, came to the Oregon
Territory in 1812, and worked for the Pacific Fur Company. My
great grandmother, Mary, was a Walla Walla and Cayuse Tribal
Member and the daughter of Chief Peo Peo Mox Mox, Headman of
the Walla Walla people.
My personal history is deeply interwoven with the fabric of
our shared American history. After serving in the United States
Navy as an intelligence specialist, I worked in natural
resources and conservation management across the nation in
urban and rural areas for nearly 30 years. I have served in
local, regional, and national organizations that have conserved
fish and wildlife and our common spaces of land. My record is
one of engagement and collaboration. Some of my closest friends
and colleagues in Oregon are non-Indian farmers and ranchers.
Most recently, I served as the Umatilla Tribe's Executive
Director and Deputy Executive Director, managing over 190,000
acres of land and resources with over $700 million in assets
while also co-managing with local, state, and federal agencies
over six million acres of land that were granted to the United
States under the Treaty of 1855. I currently serve as a
Councilmember of the Pacific Northwest Power and Conservation
Council, with a jurisdictional area covering Oregon,
Washington, Idaho, and Montana--working to ensure that we can
meet the power needs of our people and economy and to protect
fish and wildlife.
The National Park Service is a very special agency with a
timeless mission to preserve resources and to inspire current
and future generations. I am excited to lead that mission.
Although I have not worn the National Park Service uniform, I
have worn the uniform of the United States Navy during wartime,
and I wear the regalia of my tribe to honor my ancestors and
elders. These uniforms are reminders of the sacrifices made to
protect our homelands and the responsibility to pass down those
lands in a stronger state than they are now. I have a
tremendous respect for the people and places of the National
Park Service. While hiking recently on John Day Fossil Beds
National Monument with my family, I was struck by the
professionalism and the expertise of the rangers, and realized
that I have visited over 100 national park areas and monuments
over the past 50 years. This time spent with our national
treasures taught me the importance of being an American and
being part of something bigger in life.
The National Park Service cannot achieve its mission
without a well-supported workforce, and I am committed to
focusing on the caretaking of this mission. Staffing, housing,
and other issues are impacting morale and deserve active
attention. I am also very aware of the concerns about the
harassment of National Park Service employees, particularly
women, and I have always had a zero-tolerance approach on
harassment and will bring this to the position if confirmed. As
for the sites themselves, our treasured National Park System is
not just lakes and mountains. The agency safeguards some of the
country's most solemn and hallowed places--the bed where
Abraham Lincoln died, the steps of the Lincoln Memorial upon
which Martin Luther King, Jr. professed his vision for a better
America, the graves of our service members and our presidents.
Despite the clarity of the National Park Service mission, there
are differences in opinion about how to accomplish it. In
Indian Country, we expect an open discussion with the Federal
Government prior to making decisions, not after the fact. If
confirmed, I will bring this spirit of consultation to the
Service as Director. I look forward to consulting with
neighboring communities, stakeholders, local, state, and tribal
governments, and Members of Congress, even when the
conversations and topics are challenging.
I can assure you that I take this responsibility seriously.
I hope to earn your support to be the 19th Director of the
National Park Service. I have appreciated speaking with many of
you and learning from your insights. If confirmed, I am
committed to provide for the protection, stewardship, and
public use and enjoyment of our national parks. Thank you. I
look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Sams follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Sams.
Now we are going to have Mr. Crabtree.
OPENING STATEMENT OF BRAD J. CRABTREE, NOMINATED TO BE AN
ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF ENERGY (FOSSIL ENERGY AND CARBON
MANAGEMENT)
Mr. Crabtree. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso,
members of the Committee, it is an honor to appear before you
today. I also want to thank my own Senator, John Hoeven, for
his kind introduction. It has been a pleasure to work with you
all these years since your first term as Governor of my state.
It is a tremendous honor to be nominated by President Biden to
be Assistant Secretary for Fossil Energy and Carbon Management,
and if confirmed, have the opportunity to work with Secretary
Granholm and the terrific team at the Department of Energy.
As a native North Dakotan, I spent my early years hunting
and fishing with my father, who was a deeply conservative and
passionate conservationist, and I grew up among people who
earned their livelihoods on farms and ranches and in mines,
power plants, and oil fields. My wife, daughter, and I have
also raised cattle and sheep, and have direct-marketed grass-
fed lamb and beef on our ranch in North Dakota for 15 years,
where I still live and work today. Shaped by these experiences,
I have dedicated my professional life to advancing energy
solutions that fulfill our climate obligations while meeting
the needs of people, communities, and regions that depend on
traditional energy, agriculture, and industry. My work as Vice
President for Carbon Management at the Great Plains Institute
has built bridges--in some instances for the first time--among
industry, agriculture, NGO's, organized labor, and others
across different states and regions, and perhaps most
importantly, between Democrats and Republicans.
Carbon management, a mission priority of DOE's Office of
Fossil Energy and Carbon Management, has been a principal focus
of my work for 20 years. Beginning in 2001, I co-lead the
Institute's ``Powering the Plains'' project. It forged private
sector, NGO, and state policymaker agreement on a comprehensive
50-year energy strategy for the Upper Midwest. This, in turn,
informed the 2006 launch of an energy and climate initiative of
the Midwestern Governors Association, for which I coordinated
energy policy and climate advisory groups. This effort
ultimately made groundbreaking commitments to carbon capture
and storage at that time. In 2011, I co-founded and still serve
as staff director of the Carbon Capture Coalition, an 80-plus
member partnership of companies, labor unions, and conservation
and environmental organizations that is dedicated to economy-
wide adoption of carbon management. Over several years, the
Coalition actively supported legislation that became the
landmark bipartisan reform and expansion of the Section 45Q tax
credit in 2018.
Finally, I understand the important role that states must
play in implementing carbon management. Working with former
Republican Governor Matt Mead of Wyoming and Democratic
Governor Steve Bullock of Montana, my institute colleagues and
I established the State Carbon Capture Work Group in 2015. This
now 16-state work group has produced important analyses and
bipartisan recommendations to accelerate commercial deployment
of technology and infrastructure. I believe the United States
must lead in developing technologies to tackle climate change,
and the DOE's Office of Fossil Energy and Carbon Management has
a key role to play in helping commercialize and deploy these
technologies to decarbonize our energy and industrial system
while maintaining reliability and affordability. Proving out
these technologies at scale here at home enhances our
credibility in persuading China, India, and other major
economies to do their part, vastly increasing prospects for
averting the worst impacts of climate change. Domestic
leadership can position the U.S. to manufacture and export
these critical technologies globally.
Deployment of carbon management technologies also provides
the opportunity to retain and create jobs at existing
industrial facilities and power plants that consistently pay
above prevailing wages, benefiting affected communities in
energy producing and industrial regions of our country. At the
same time, carbon capture and utilization technologies
significantly reduce some traditional air and other pollutants
that have long unjustly burdened many communities. Through
responsible project development supported by DOE, additional
pollutants of concern can be addressed. Recent and pending
legislation before Congress substantially increases the scale
and scope of the Office of Fossil Energy and Carbon Management.
If confirmed, I commit to working with you to faithfully meet
our climate commitments, sustain high-wage jobs and domestic
energy industrial production, provide environmental benefits to
communities, and position the U.S. for continued technology
leadership.
Thank you, Senators, for the opportunity to testify before
the Committee today. I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Crabtree follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Crabtree. And by any chance,
do you have a member of your family sitting behind you?
Mr. Crabtree. I do not, sir. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Mr. Phillips, we are ready to hear from you.
OPENING STATEMENT OF WILLIE L. PHILLIPS, JR., NOMINATED TO BE A
MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member
Barrasso, and members of the Committee. I am honored to appear
before you this morning as a nominee for the FERC. I would like
to thank President Biden for nominating me and for his
confidence in my ability to serve. I would also like to thank
Chairman Manchin and Majority Leader Schumer for their
leadership and commitment to having a full complement at FERC.
Having been a regulator in the District of Columbia for over
six years and a FERC practitioner for much of my legal career,
it is the highest honor to be considered for this position.
To my wife, Gabrielle, who is in attendance today, and to
our two young children, Peyton and Tripp, your unwavering
support is unmatched. I also want to recognize my mother, Ruby,
and my sister, Lynn, who are watching from Alabama with my
very, very large extended family.
I cannot forget my dear friends and colleagues in the
District of Columbia, Mayor Bowser, Councilmember McDuffie, and
especially the devoted staff at the D.C. Public Service
Commission (DCPSC). I thank you all for empowering me to
continue this journey to serve the nation's capital and the
nation.
I also want to acknowledge my fellow state commissioners,
who have entrusted me to serve in leadership roles at the
National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners
(NARUC), the Organization of PJM States (OPSI), the EPRI
Advisory Council, and most recently, as President of the Mid-
Atlantic Council of Regulatory Utility Commisioners (MACRUC).
Your professionalism and commitment to service continue to
inspire me. Perhaps E. Urner Goodman said it best: ``For he who
serves his fellows, is, of all his fellows, greatest.'' Since I
was a young boy, I have believed in the values of servant
leadership. It is in this spirit that I intend to serve at
FERC, if I am confirmed.
It is through my lived experiences--growing up in rural
Alabama, attending the University of Montevallo, studying law
at Howard University, working in private practice, and working
as a regulator--that I have come to believe that any utility
commission should have three goals: affordability, reliability,
and sustainability. The cornerstone of utility service is
reliability. Consumers and businesses and whole industries have
to rely on the lights coming on when you flip that switch. I
learned that lesson while serving at NERC (North American
Electric Reliability Corporation). I worked with some of the
sharpest legal minds in the industry to draft reliability
standards for the bulk power system, including critical
infrastructure protection standards. I have a keen awareness of
the cybersecurity and physical security threats that we face as
a nation. As the effects of climate change and extreme weather
increasingly challenge the reliability of our grid, it is
imperative that we work to ensure that our nation's energy
infrastructure is resilient. Reliability depends on our
vigilance against these threats.
Like the millions of Americans who have faced financial
hardships in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic, I have
firsthand knowledge of the importance of affordable energy. I
watched my own mother and grandmother do back-breaking labor in
Alabama, only earning barely enough to get by, and then I
witnessed them do the monthly ritual of spreading the bills out
on the dining room table. And I have to tell you, utilities did
not always make the cut in my household. And so it is never far
from my mind, as I do my work, that there are many people who
are less fortunate than even me, who depend on utility
regulators to make sure that we have energy services that are
efficient, at the lowest possible reasonable rates. However, as
a regulator, I know that the public interest drives the work of
the Commission. It demands that we work with an eye toward
ensuring reliable energy for the grid today and a resilient
energy infrastructure for the future, one that can meet the
challenges of climate change. That is why I am proud of the
work that we have done at the DCPSC to modernize our energy
delivery system. If confirmed, these will remain priorities of
mine.
By balancing these three guiding principles and considering
the arguments and positions of all parties to a proceeding, I
would strive to fulfill the mission of FERC, and if I am
honored to be confirmed, I stand ready to work with my fellow
commissioners and FERC staff to do so. Once again, I thank you
for allowing me to appear today and I look forward to your
questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Phillips follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thanks to all three of you. We appreciate
very much your statements and your experience and your
willingness to serve.
First, I am going to start with Mr. Phillips' questions, if
you will.
Mr. Phillips. Yes sir.
The Chairman. The first question I will ask, do you believe
it is in the best interest to maintain energy independence in
the United States?
Mr. Phillips. Yes sir.
The Chairman. And that means what in your definition of
independence? How do you maintain that?
Mr. Phillips. Well, thank you for the question, Senator.
I believe in an all-of-the-above strategy with regard to
the work of the Commission. I know that FERC is an economic
regulator. They do not pick winners and losers. At the same
time, I am very aware that we are in the middle of an energy
transition. We used to say that the energy transition is
coming. I think that it's here today. And I want to do
everything that I can, if I am honored to be confirmed, to push
forward innovation to achieve our goal.
The Chairman. You know, pipelines and transmission is a big
thing that you are overseeing and making sure that we have
connectivity and making sure that the people can depend on that
power being delivered when needed. So your thoughts on--as
natural gas continues to be a large component--natural gas has
switched, basically 20 years ago it was 16 percent of our power
mix, now it is 40 percent. Coal was 52 percent, now it is 19
percent. So transitions are going on. Renewables went from 9.5
percent to 20 percent. So this is a changing mix, if you will.
So your thoughts, basically--the important permitting role
and the permitting role is this--pipelines. To move this
product is so dependent today--we are having a hard time in
some parts of our country, also, moving methane. We know
methane is a tremendous factor against the climate, but with
that being said, when I have gone out and reached out to people
producing, they said they cannot get pipeline permits to move
the methane so they flare it off. And so what are your thoughts
on permitting pipelines and making sure that we are able to
deliver the energy that is needed?
Mr. Phillips. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman. I
believe, as you stated, that no one would argue that there are
efficiencies that can be had with regard to our pipeline
certification for natural gas. This is something that, if I am
confirmed, I would commit to work on. It is also something that
I have done in my career as a regulator in DC.
The Chairman. But also, methane, for the quality of our
environment, we have to be able to capture the methane and use
it in a more productive way than just flaring it or venting it.
Mr. Phillips. Yes sir. I absolutely agree.
The Chairman. Mr. Crabtree, we became a net exporter in
2019, as you know, for the first time in 67 years in large part
because of domestic surge that we had with fracking in oil and
gas and also the reliance we have on nuclear and coal
production, and geothermal is coming on and all the different
things we call firm power. So we have firm power and then we
have weather power and until we get the technology to take care
of that--so your thoughts on those and the mix it would take
for us to continue to be energy independent?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thank you for the question.
Obviously, our first and foremost obligation is to ensure
energy availability, affordability, and reliability. The Office
of Fossil Energy and Carbon Management has a big role to play
in that regard. You noted that there are a number of sources of
dispatchable 24/7 power, for example. If we are to achieve net-
zero emissions, a goal of the Administration that I support,
then we need to be deploying technology that allows those
dispatchable sources of generation to continue to provide that
reliable baseload support for the new low- and zero-carbon
forms of generation that are coming online. Also, to ensure the
long-term viability of our industrial production--that we are
decarbonizing those industrial processes as well, sir.
The Chairman. And Mr. Sams, the final question is for you.
You have a long history and I enjoyed your resume and all
that you have in your heritage and lineage, which speaks
volumes of your understanding of our responsibility to the
National Park Service, and with that, if you could give me your
top priorities, as you seem them, because, you know, with the
Great American Outdoors Act that we passed, we are committed to
getting our parks up to standards, and deferred maintenance--
eliminating some $6 to $9 billion in that arena. What are your
thoughts and what are your highest priorities right now as you
see it from the perch that you are in now versus the perch you
will be in very quickly?
Mr. Sams. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Three priorities. One is the staff. One thing I have always
learned in leadership, it is the people that are the most
important and therefore, helping to improve the morale,
listening to the staff, the long-term staff, and figuring out
exactly what needs to be done to support them out in the field
in order to be the good interpreters they are, to be able to
take care of the parks in an appropriate way.
The Chairman. The parks are getting inundated right now
with visitors because of the COVID and we--people, want a
different lifestyle.
Mr. Sams. Yes.
The Chairman. They are going to visit the parks.
Mr. Sams. Yes sir, absolutely.
The Chairman. And I am understanding you are understaffed.
Mr. Sams. And we are. As I understand it, there is 20
percent less staff than there was several years ago, but yet,
we have seen this 20 percent increase at the parks. And so
people are loving their parks to death. You know, the Senate
has heard this since 1978 that this was coming and forthcoming.
And so we have that backlog of maintenance. And I am very
grateful to all of you here and the Congress as a whole for
passing the Great American Outdoors Act so that we are making
investments back into that infrastructure--making investments
back into the staff--but it has to be done in a very clear and
open way so that people can see the investments the American
people are making into their national park system and those
investments are going to last for the next 50, 75 years, or
more. And so, I am committed to those three things early on.
The Chairman. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Sams. Thank you.
The Chairman. Senator Barrasso.
Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.
First, I have to ask all the nominees--prior to this
hearing each of you swore under oath that your answers to the
Committee's written questionnaire are current, accurate, and
complete. Would each of you please verbally affirm that your
answers to the questionnaire are current, accurate, and
complete--the written questionnaire?
[All nominees respond ``yes.'']
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
Have any of you ever threatened the physical safety of
federal officials, verbally or in writing?
[All nominees respond ``no.'']
Senator Barrasso. And have any of you ever been affiliated
or collaborated with an organization that uses violence against
fellow Americans?
[All nominees respond ``no.'']
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
Mr. Sams, to follow up on what Senator Manchin was talking
about, the Great American Outdoors Act passed last year, and
was signed by President Trump into law. The law specifically
directs the Secretary of the Interior to address the
maintenance backlog of our nation's parks and other Department
of Interior lands. I agree with everything you said about the
morale of staff and working on those areas. The specific
backlog of deferred maintenance, there are lists of that, the
needs, certainly for Grand Teton National Park in Wyoming,
estimated $181 million, for Yellowstone National Park in
Wyoming, $563 million. Specifically, what will you do to ensure
that the Park Service successfully manages this deferred
maintenance backlog, certainly in Wyoming, but also across the
nation?
Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the question.
And you know, we had this discussion. I appreciate your
bringing this up. It is extremely important, again, that we do
prove that with the methodology that we are using--that would
be used at National Park Service--and I need to, of course,
look at this and talk with the staff on currently how they are
doing that. But those areas that are in most critical need are
seeing that funding very early on because we have to stop that
deterioration, and I want to make sure that those investments
are very clear and open to the public and so that you would see
exactly what we are doing.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
Mr. Crabtree, today there is a Wall Street Journal
editorial, an op-ed by Walter Mead, and the headline is
``Energy Crisis Hobbles Biden's Green Agenda.'' And it says,
``By artificially depressing fossil fuel production,''--which
we are seeing--``and investment in the democratic world faster
than renewables and other fuels can fill the gap, Biden policy
promotes a multiyear, multitrillion dollar windfall for
countries like Russia, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.''
[The op-ed mentioned follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Barrasso. And even on the White House website it
points out that the National Security Advisor has asked OPEC
Plus, including Russia, to produce more energy because we are
not doing it here in the United States.
So if confirmed, how will you work to ensure that the
Administration stops helping our enemies and competitors by
killing American fossil fuel production?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thanks for the question. As you
know, I come from a state that is a major producer of all
manner of fossil energy resources as well as renewable energy
resources and is a leading agricultural producer that depends
on that economy as well. I am a supporter of an all-of-the-
above, low- and zero-carbon energy agenda, and President Biden
and Secretary Granholm are as well. And if confirmed, I will be
committed to advancing that agenda in the context of the Office
of Fossil Energy and Carbon Management. The technologies that
that office is tasked with supporting deployment of are the
very technologies that would allow traditional energy
industries--coal, oil, natural gas--to continue in a low-carbon
economy and to produce the energy that our country needs, and
to do so in conjunction with new renewable and other low- and
zero-carbon resources.
And as I mentioned in the previous question, there is the
industrial sector as well, which is vital to our national
prosperity and well-being. I really believe, Senator, that we
have an opportunity to accomplish our energy security
objectives as a country, to support our allies overseas with
our energy exports, and at the same time to reduce emissions
here at home and through those exports, to provide a lower
carbon energy product to our customers overseas.
Senator Barrasso. Mr. Phillips, in your prepared remarks
you state, ``There are three primary goals of a utility
commission and those are reliability, affordability, and
sustainability.'' And I believe that what we are seeing coming
out of the House--and the Democrats over there with their tax-
and-spend bill--threatens, actually, all three of the goals
that you have outlined. You also said that the cornerstone of
utility service is reliability. And I agree. I commend you for
putting reliability first.
As a commissioner, how are you going to do that? Will you
put reliability first, and how will you safeguard that
reliability?
Mr. Phillips. Thank you for the question, Senator.
First of all, I want to say, just at the starting point
that I believe that climate change is real. I believe that we
have a moral and ethical obligation to address it.
To your question about how will we do this? I believe, sir,
it starts with balance. I believe we have to have balance in
our approach. I use the example of a three-legged stool. When
you think about the integrity of every leg of the stool, it is
important to the overall operation. If you have world-class
sustainability, you can't do it and sacrifice reliability, or
the chair will fall. If you have wonderful sustainability, but
you have gold-plated reliability, no one can afford to sit in
the chair. It makes no sense to me. So with that, sir, I
believe that my approach, if I am honored to be confirmed, will
be to seek balance in everything that we do.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
Mr. Sams, welcome. It is good to meet you and I look
forward to working with you. We have a challenge at the Valles
Caldera National Preserve with illegal trespass cattle coming
into the preserve from the neighboring Santa Fe National Forest
and these cattle are currently damaging the unique subalpine
meadows, the wetlands on the Caldera, and they are also having
an impact on the Preserve's world-class elk herd. I just wanted
to ask you, if confirmed, would you work to ensure that the
Valles Caldera has adequate fencing to keep trespass cattle out
of the Preserve?
Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator and thank you for bringing
this to my attention. You know, I looked at this issue last
night and yes, I am committed to figuring a way to ensure that
there are no trespass issues and to working with the sister
agencies, such as the Forest Service and the National Park
staff to ensure the area is secured and preserved in the
appropriate way.
Senator Heinrich. There is a saying out West that fences
make good neighbors. So I look forward to working with you on
that issue.
Mr. Crabtree, the promise of so-called clean coal faced
what many would call a predictable setback recently when the
carbon capture portion of the Kemper Plant in Mississippi was
canceled after running $4 billion over budget, over $1 billion
of which was taxpayer funding. Chevron has experienced a
similar setback with their project in Western Australia. There
are big engineering challenges, shall we say, at Project Tundra
in your home state. Why should we continue to subsidize carbon
capture technology when its track record is one of so many
high-profile failures?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator Heinrich, thank you for the question.
So let me start with the latter part of your question
first--why should we support the deployment of these
technologies? I would refer back, obviously, to the conclusions
of the intergovernmental panel on climate change and recent
modeling and analysis by the International Energy Agency (IEA),
which makes it crystal clear that we cannot meet mid-century
climate goals without economy-wide deployment of these
technologies. That is clearly true in the industrial sector,
but it is also true to a degree in the power sector. If we are
to get to net zero in the power sector, we need dispatchable
generation to complement renewable energy resources that are on
a low- and zero-carbon basis.
As far as the track record of carbon capture technologies,
I would actually suggest that it is quite positive. If we look
at any emerging technology, and the arc of that technology from
early research and development to initial deployment to wider
commercialization, there are project failures. I would note
that the Kemper project did not fail because of carbon capture
technology. It failed because the demonstration of a gasifier
technology did not succeed. The carbon capture technology is
long-proven and widely commercially deployed across the world
and I----
Senator Heinrich. But not economically deployed, and that
is the challenge.
Mr. Crabtree. I agree with you, Senator. We need a
combination of support coming from the Department of Energy and
its traditional authorities and you and other Members of
Congress are supporting legislation--the Energy Act of 2020,
the infrastructure bill. Impending bipartisan legislation would
greatly enhance the policy framework that needs to be coupled
with traditional tools and authorities of DOE to help these
emerging technologies enter the marketplace with deployment,
bring down costs, and we can echo or repeat the same success
that we have seen with solar, which deployment brings cost
reductions and then----
Senator Heinrich. Well, I think the difference between any
technology that is distributed--solar is a good example, but
really solar, wind, even electrolyzers--is those things are
highly distributed, whereas when you do large complex projects
it is much harder to bring down those cost curves.
Mr. Phillips, I wanted to ask you, in 2020 I led a letter
to then Chairman Chatterjee urging the Commission to implement
Section 219(b)(3) of the Federal Power Act. That section
requires the Commission to encourage deployment of transmission
technologies and other measures to increase the capacity and
efficiency of existing transmission facilities and to improve
the operation of these facilities. This would include smart
grid technologies like power flow controls and other non-wires
options. Do you support Commission implementation of Section
219(b)(3) to improve the delivery of power over our existing
transmission systems as well as the expansion that the Chairman
talked about?
Mr. Phillips. Thank you for the question, Senator. I want
to be careful here because I know that the Commission has an
Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (ANOPR) that it has
released on transmission reform policy. I want to be very
careful not to prejudge any particular issue. I can tell you,
sir, as a general matter, I do support exploring all of these
options to increase our flow and to increase our natural gas
transmission capacity. Thank you for the question.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
Senator Cantwell [presiding]. Senator Hoeven.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Brad, you know we have been working very hard on carbon
capture and sequestration in North Dakota. We actually started
back in 2008. We are one of I think two states in the country
that have all the regulatory approvals, both at the state level
and from EPA, to actually capture and sequester CO2.
Tell me, in this role, how you would propose to help us crack
the code on carbon capture and storage off our coal-fired
electric plants and make that not only technologically viable
but commercially viable so that we can do it not only in North
Dakota, but really across the country, and with that
technology, continue to produce that low-cost, dependable
energy with the best environmental stewardship? How are you
going to help make that happen?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thank you for that question.
Obviously, the regulatory framework that North Dakota has
in place in partnership with the federal regulatory framework
through the delegated authority is critical. In terms of the
role and authorities of the Office of Fossil Energy and Carbon
Management, we are seeing both in the context of this
Administration and in Congress on a bipartisan basis an
increasing emphasis on commercial deployment. And the first
part of that process, as you know, started in the previous
Administration with the funding of FEED studies to support the
engineering that is necessary for large projects like this. And
the next step is the opportunity to provide cost share and
other support for these early commercial projects, be they
industrial projects, capturing CO2 from various
industrial facilities, or in the power sector. And those, of
course, in the context of project development and financing can
be complemented with the policy tools that are--the reform and
expansion of the 45Q tax credit and enhancements that are being
considered can complement what DOE can do to bring projects to
the point of commercial feasibility and deployment.
Senator Hoeven. Are you committed to supporting FEED study
or funding for the front-end design, development--funding for
projects like Project Tundra, loan guarantees to help these
companies actually finance and put the carbon capture
technology in place and then things like 45Q, the tax credit,
to help them with the cost associated with it? Are you
committed to helping deploy those programs to make it happen?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thank you.
As you know, as a nominee, I am not yet part of the
Administration. I cannot speak to particular projects, but it
is my understanding and it would be my commitment that the
purpose of these programs is to support the deployment of
emerging technologies in the marketplace, be it the DOE loan
program or DOE cost share and other things. And of course, that
is obviously on the legislative side--the 45Q component of
this--but again, as I said, that complements and leverages the
ability of the Department of Energy to support projects of that
nature.
Senator Hoeven. And if approved, are you committed to
helping deploy those programs to make it happen?
Mr. Crabtree. I am absolutely committed to seeing the
implementation of the programs, the authorizations in the 2020
Energy Act, obviously it is pending, but there is further
funding for those authorizations in the bipartisan energy bill
as well as additional authorizations. And yes, I am absolutely
committed to implementing the legislation passed by the
Congress and the legislative intent.
Senator Hoeven. And that support would be there both for
geologic storage as well as sequestration?
Mr. Crabtree. I am not sure--so geologic storage applies to
all----
Senator Hoeven. Geologic storage, sequestration, but also--
EOR--I should say, I'm sorry.
Mr. Crabtree. With respect to EOR, storage through enhanced
oil recovery is a fully commercial--it is a pathway under the
45Q tax credit, as you know. It is a fully commercial approach.
It has been demonstrated over decades. It first began 50 years
ago. The focus of the Administration and the focus of
bipartisan legislation in Congress is scaling up what is
arguably a more neglected pathway for the future, which is
saline geologic storage. As you know, we only have one
permitted commercial-scale storage operation in the United
States today. That is the Decatur facility in Illinois and for
the viability, whether it is the power sector or
decarbonization of the industrial side, it is urgent that we
scale up saline geologic storage. It is very important to
industry for reasons of the long-term storage capacity to
geographic distribution of those reservoirs, but also the
ability to reduce carbon emissions even deeper, long-term.
Senator Hoeven. Right, but I am talking about both EOR and
geologic storage.
Mr. Crabtree. I cannot speak to--in terms of specific
projects at DOE--whether there is a decision about actually
providing support for projects that rely on EOR storage, per
se, but I am committed to supporting all pathways.
Senator Hoeven. All right. Mr. Chairman, I guess I am over
my time. So I will stop at this point. Thank you.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
I am calling on myself next and then Senator Lankford or
Marshall, whoever is here, followed by Senator Hirono. So thank
you, all.
I want to start with you, Mr. Phillips. We had a chance to
have a conversation, but I just want to clarify for the record,
do you support the anti-manipulation authority that FERC has
and its continued use in policing energy markets?
Mr. Phillips. Yes.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
One of the other issues that my colleague, Senator
Heinrich, just touched on and I am sure others, is this issue
of how we grow and continue to diversify. In the Northwest,
even though we are a hydro state, I guarantee you that climate
is impacting snowpack, which then impacts hydro, which then has
many impacts. So we want to diversify, and PNNL, our Pacific
Northwest National Laboratory, is a leader in battery storage
and also released a study called the Seam Study, evaluating the
costs and benefits of strengthening our interties and seams
between western and eastern power grids. The balkanization is
definitely costing us, and so I want to make sure that I
understand. Do you believe we need to do more to connect
regional grids and install transmission capacity to transfer
power where it is needed? And do you believe we should be
encouraging more investment in interties?
Mr. Phillips. Yes, yes, absolutely.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
We will get back to you on more details, but obviously,
before us is a big infrastructure investment plan that would do
just this, and I think we should be doing more on this if we
want to empower more solutions, particularly on the battery
storage side.
Okay, I need to go to Mr. Sams, thank you so much. I wanted
to ask you--obviously we made a major investment in our public
lands with the investments that we did in the Great American
Outdoors Act, for which this Committee played a major role in
trying to alleviate the backlog in maintenance. And obviously,
parks, as you know, in the Pacific Northwest are big business.
They generate $2.3 billion in state and local revenue in our
state and over 100,000 jobs on all public lands. So helping to
fix the backlog in maintenance--we have $427 million in
deferred maintenance. There are projects at Olympic National
Park. It is a 50-year-old water treatment facility that needs
upgrading, and we need investment in campgrounds at Mount
Rainier and sidewalks and visitor center upgrades at Paradise.
So are those things that you can commit to--taking care of this
backlog in maintenance in our national parks?
Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator. Yes, I am committed to
reviewing all of that in the process that the National Park
Service is currently using. While I am not currently in the
Service, I have been talking with a number of folks about this.
I am committed to making sure those that are in most critical
need of repair are prioritized so that they can be taken care
of--and again, with an eye on ensuring that they will be usable
for the next 50 to 75 years.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you. Do you believe there are
enough staff on the ground to work on improving our parks?
Mr. Sams. Senator, thank you for the question. As you know,
the staff are down by 20 percent from just several years ago. I
think that there needs to be some looking at restaffing so that
we can get more boots on the ground to help with these issues.
Senator Cantwell. And how would you suggest we do that?
Mr. Sams. It will be looking at figuring out the workforce
development and how workforce development and recruitment
currently is going on, ensuring that we are preparing the next
generation of rangers to be able to be in that part of the
workforce by having a diverse workforce and recruiting those
folks to come in. The Federal Government has a number of ways
of doing that, and I look forward, if confirmed, to working on
those ways to ensure that there are avenues for more folks to
come into the Service.
Senator Cantwell. So how will we ensure to allocate dollars
efficiently for the National Park Service? I look at this and
think--look at yourself, look at other people in the Park
Service. I feel like I have met so many young people who have
come from all over the United States. I think about our former
colleague, Congressman Dingell, who told me that he worked in
our National Park System. This is a job a lot of people would
like. So how do we increase this opportunity and communication
to people, particularly at this time?
Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator.
You have to go out and recruit people where they are at,
not where you want them to come and I think we need to get out
into the community and be able to do that. You know, I had the
great pleasure of working for the City Volunteer Corps of New
York in the 90's and working at Grant's Tomb, and that is
really what inspired me to think of, you know, how does the
National Park Service work? What does it protect and preserve,
and how do we get people in there? My own experience is when
you walk in the footsteps of your fellow Americans in these
places, these hallowed halls, the hallowed lands, you get that
invigoration. So if we can go out and recruit people, bring
them into the parks, show them that and show them that there
are career paths forward for them, I think that is how we get
the recruitment done.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
Senator Marshall.
Senator Marshall. Thank you, Madam Chair. Welcome,
everybody. My first question is for Mr. Sams. Mr. Sams, about
six years ago, we had our first grandchild and my wife and I
were having the conversation of what is next in life, and we
went through our bucket list. As I recall the conversation, it
started off like, we have done your bucket list and now it is
time for her bucket list. And on the bucket list was to go to
every National Park in the United States, and we have made a
big dent in that. I did not realize--423 areas that we have to
get to now. So that is quite a challenge.
Would you describe that you have a labor shortage or a
labor problem right now at the National Park Service?
Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator.
I believe there is just a lack of staffing. We are down 20
percent for a number of reasons. So when you look at that and
the amount of people that are coming into the parks, there is
definitely a need for additional staff to help with the
overcrowding issue to ensure that the preservation is taking
effect, to ensure we have enough interpreters out on the
grounds.
Senator Marshall. Sure. Do you have any idea what
percentage of the staff is not vaccinated?
Mr. Sams. I do not have that information, Senator.
Senator Marshall. Do you think a vaccine mandate would make
the labor shortage worse if it were to go into effect?
Mr. Sams. You know, I would look to the CDC and the
Administration on that.
Senator Marshall. I understand that and I do, I support
vaccines, but if your industry is like every industry I know--
20, 30 percent of people are not vaccinated yet--and I
encourage those people to talk to their doctor about the pros
and cons of the vaccine, but there is a large number. And I
think you would agree with me that it could make a bad problem
even worse.
Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator. I do. You know, I served as
the incident commander for the Confederate Tribes Umatilla
Indian Reservation for COVID-19, and I understand that
importance of encouraging folks so that we can continue to make
sure that work happened, but I will look to the Administration
and the CDC on any----
Senator Marshall. Of course, of course, yes.
Mr. Crabtree, we had a great conversation yesterday. You
know as much about carbon capture as anybody I have met so far,
and I look forward to working with you. Certainly, we share so
many of the same goals and the same passions to leave this
great world we live in healthier, cleaner, and safer than we
found it. And I think that carbon capture could be a huge part
of that. Biofuels, I think, have some great opportunities
already across Kansas, many states, your home state. Ethanol
plants are already doing carbon capture as well, going forward.
I am always surprised as I look at the White House's policy
on our environment--that they leave out biofuels and do not
look to it. Already, but right now, we could cut tailpipe
emissions in half for this world if we would go to E15. Cut it
in half again if we went to E30. Why does this White House not
include biofuels in any of their solutions for the environment?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator, first of all, thank you for meeting
with me yesterday. I, too, enjoyed our conversation as we
talked about multiple trips to your state to talk about the
opportunities for carbon management on the ground in Kansas and
they are significant. As far as biofuels, one thing we didn't
talk about a lot is the specific opportunity in the context of
continuing to reduce the--biofuels are already a low-carbon
fuel, and make a significant contribution to our nation's
energy supply, but there are considerable opportunities to
further reduce the carbon footprint of biofuels through carbon
capture, the CO2 produced from fermentation.
The major challenge there is not technological. We have
been capturing CO2 from ethanol plants for many,
many years. The challenge is infrastructure. The buildout of
CO2 transport and storage infrastructure is a
priority of the Department of Energy, of the office that, if
confirmed, I would be representing, and it is also a priority
of bipartisan legislation in the Congress.
Senator Marshall. Will that infrastructure require
pipelines?
Mr. Crabtree. Yes, it absolutely would. And I think there
is an opportunity on a regional basis in your state and
surrounding states that are ethanol producers to knit those
ethanol plants together in a pipeline network that would take
that CO2 to geologic storage locations and it would
create an economic opportunity for that industry because, as
you know, states like California have state policies such as
the low-carbon fuel standard, that reward those further
emissions reductions. And so it would actually create market
opportunity for biofuels.
Senator Marshall. Thank you. I need to move on now.
Mr. Phillips, as you are aware, this past winter, February,
we had a huge winter freeze. Energy prices went up
exponentially. My folks back home are going to have their
heating bill double for the next 10 years because of that. So
two questions: Who do you think made all the money? Who
profited from that situation? And then, what can FERC's role be
in the future to help prevent those big energy cost spikes from
going up?
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Senator.
First of all, let me say, what happened with Winter Storm
Uri--it shouldn't have happened, to be clear. People have an
expectation that the power is going to be on and that is
something that I will work to continue to do. With regard to
who made the money, I want to be clear here. NERC and FERC,
they have an ongoing inquiry into this situation, and so we do
not know all the facts. We do not know everything that
happened, but I can promise you this, if given the opportunity
to serve, I will make sure and look for ways that FERC--the
Federal Government--can help intervene to make sure that
something like this, when you talk about people having to pay
off this bill for over 10 years, that is something that I
believe is unacceptable.
Senator Marshall. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Congratulations to all of the nominees. I ask the following
two initial questions of all nominees before any of the
committees who come before me. So I will ask the panel en
masse. Since you became a legal adult, have you ever made
unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed any verbal or
physical harassment or assault of a sexual nature?
[All nominees respond ``no.'']
Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered
into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
[All nominees respond ``no.'']
Senator Hirono. For Mr. Sams, congratulations, in
particular, on your historic nomination to become the first
Native American to lead the National Park Service, and you have
a long history of public service that makes you well-suited for
this position. During your time at the Trust for Public Land,
you worked with groups in Hawaii, including the Office of
Hawaiian Affairs, to facilitate the acquisition of lands for
protection, like the Wao Kele o Puna Forest on Hawaii Island
and the Waimea Valley on Oahu. Through those efforts, I am
sure, you quickly learned not only how unique Hawaii is, but
the importance of relationships in the state and that
experience will serve you well in your new role.
Madam Chair, I have a letter of support from a number of
Native Hawaiian organizations on Mr. Sams' nomination, which I
would like to enter into the record.
Senator Cantwell. Without objection.
[Letter of support for Mr. Sams follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Hirono. Mr. Sams, I know that your testimony makes
mention of your commitment to consulting various stakeholders,
if confirmed, but based on your experience, what opportunities
do you see for the National Park Service to enhance the
partnerships with indigenous communities in terms of increasing
visitation, representation within the workforce, telling of
their stories, and incorporation of indigenous views in
decisionmaking?
Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the question.
Yes, I think that it is a great opportunity to express
America's history in its broadest aspect. You know, I have
watched the changes over the years when we looked at the--I
have been to the Custer Battlefield when it was still the
battlefield, before it became, you know, more of a memorial. I
watched the growth of America as a whole to be able to talk
about the history openly and honestly. I look forward to
working with Native communities across the United States,
whether that is in your home state of Hawaii, or with Alaska
Natives and throughout the U.S. territories to make sure that
the story can be told as broadly as possible. And I think it is
important to be able to work with Native folks on traditional
ecological knowledge in helping manage those spaces so that we
are conserving them based on 10,000-plus years of management of
those spaces to ensure that they will be here for future
generations to enjoy.
Senator Hirono. So if confirmed, I look forward to the kind
of specific outreach that you will engage in with indigenous
groups. In particular, I do not know if you have a copy of the
letter that I just put into the record, but there are a number
of Native Hawaiian groups that you have worked with over time.
For Mr. Crabtree, President Biden established the Justice40
Initiative to ensure that at least 40 percent of the overall
benefits from federal investments in climate and clean energy
go to disadvantaged communities. If you are confirmed, how
would you apply that initiative to address the pollution burden
that fossil fuel plants place on their neighboring communities?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator Hirono, thank you for the question.
Environmental justice has to be a core commitment in
everything we do in implementing the programs of the Department
of Energy and the Office of Fossil Energy and Carbon
Management, in particular. The types of projects that are
supported by the office are indeed with facilities that have
impacts beyond carbon emissions, be they power plants or
industrial facilities, and there are communities that live in
close proximity to these facilities. I mentioned in my
testimony that carbon capture technologies and carbon
utilization technologies do have some benefits beyond reducing
carbon emissions, in terms of air pollutants and other types of
pollutants. You have to manage those pollutants in terms of the
carbon capture technologies themselves. That said, there are
other pollutants that have burdened communities for generations
that are not affected and it is incumbent upon the
Administration and on me, in my role in this office, in terms
of the demonstration projects and others that move forward, to
make sure that we are taking those extra steps, mitigation
practices, additional technologies and investments, to make
sure that we are reducing that burden on communities.
And I would also add that it is not just environmental, it
is economic. There is an opportunity--working across
government, other parts of the DOE, other agencies--to make
sure that the jobs that are created through these projects,
that members of communities that live on the front lines,
actually have the opportunity to get some of those jobs.
Senator Hirono. Mr. Crabtree, based on your answer just
now, it seems that you have given thought to how you are going
to implement this initiative on the part of the President. So
if confirmed, I would really want to know specifically what you
are doing in this area and you know, how the communities are
benefiting. Thank you.
Mr. Crabtree. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Cantwell. Senator Lankford.
Senator Lankford. Thank you. Thank you all for your
testimony today. I want to be able to drill down on a couple
things you just said, Mr. Crabtree, as well. You are very
familiar with enhanced oil recovery, where you inject
CO2 into a site to be able to increase the amount of
oil out of that well, but it also stores carbon then also into
the formation itself. Is that something that you see as a
promising technology? It is not new by any means, but is that
something that is a solution to reducing carbon?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thanks for the question. Yes, I do.
I would actually go further and say it is established
technology----
Senator Lankford. Right.
Mr. Crabtree [continuing]. That has an opportunity to
continue to contribute both to domestic energy security and
emissions reductions, but it is a fully commercial technology.
It started in 1972 in West Texas. As you know, Senator, your
own state has examples of deployment of that technology. The
role of the Office of Fossil Energy and Carbon Management is to
support the development of and wider demonstration and
deployment of emerging technologies. In the context of storage,
which enhanced oil recovery is properly regulated and
implemented, it provides a form of geologic storage, even
though the purpose is oil production.
Long-term, both for the benefits of the industries that
need emission solutions and addressing climate concerns, we
need to be scaling up and demonstrating saline geologic
storage. Your own state and many regions of the country have
large saline formations. They have the ability to store
hundreds, potentially thousands of years' worth of emissions.
So there is an opportunity that is greater than in oil and gas
fields. There is also an opportunity, when you store
CO2 in a saline geologic formation, to achieve
deeper reductions, which ultimately benefit the industry that
is emitting that CO2.
So a focus of this department--and also even bipartisan
legislation that has been passed and is under consideration--is
on taking that next step and really proving out storage in
these other types of geologic formations.
Senator Lankford. So let me drill down on that a little bit
more as well. How many wells would have to be drilled to
actually do greater storage of carbon and how many miles of
pipeline would you estimate would have to be laid to be able to
do that? Because that has always been the conversation--the
amount of pipeline. Where do you take it from where it is
produced to and then storage?
Mr. Crabtree. So there is an opportunity, and this would be
a combination of DOE working in conjunction with legislation
that is under consideration--there is an opportunity to build
infrastructure for transporting CO2 larger than
would be needed to accommodate the initial projects. So the
SCALE Act--which is bipartisan legislation and President Biden
also included that legislation in his American Jobs Plan, so
there is Administration and Congressional support for this
approach--would provide DOE the authority and the ability to
provide low-interest loans and grant support so that this
initial infrastructure on existing rights-of-way, wherever
possible, could be built larger so that as new industrial
facilities and power plants bring carbon capture online, they
are building into existing infrastructure that has the smallest
possible surface footprint.
Senator Lankford. So what is your best guess on cost per
ton of storing carbon--carbon that is produced from power
generation of whatever it might be once you build in the
capture, the transportation, and the storage?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator, that is so situation-technology
specific. There are ranges for each type of industry and I
could go through them with you, but I think it is probably
better maybe to follow up on a question for the record than to
take time with that detail here.
Senator Lankford. Let's do it, because I have seen several
ranges on that and obviously, that affects the consumer and the
location, where it is actually produced, the type of geology
that is there, the proximity to the locations for storage, how
long the pipeline is going to be, all of those things.
Mr. Crabtree. With CO2 transport, I can tell you
though, as a general proposition, we need to build economies of
scale. If we can do that, CO2 transport is very
affordable, but if it is just project-to-project from one
source of emissions to one geologic formation, then it costs
more, like it would with electric transmission or anything
else.
Senator Lankford. Right. Thank you.
Mr. Phillips, I want to just ask a couple of quick
questions here.
Obviously, FERC has lots of questions right now coming at
them on reliability and getting an answer back. There have been
a lot of variations of late where FERC laid out that
environmental assessments were fine, then came back later and
said environmental impact statements are going to be needed. So
trying to be able to figure out getting a consistent answer and
a rapid answer that is accurate the first time from FERC is a
very important thing. What would be your role in that to try to
make sure that we are getting timely, accurate answers?
Mr. Phillips. I believe that FERC's role with regard to
making sure that their decisions are legally durable is
something that I will focus on. I do acknowledge that there
have been many twists and turns, as you state, sir, but to be
clear, the D.C. Circuit has been clear to FERC that they have a
responsibility to consider climate change, environmental
justice, and this is something that, if I am confirmed, I will
also be focused on.
Senator Lankford. I will pose a question for the record to
be able to follow on this as well, because there are a lot of
questions--just capital investment that are looking 30, 40
years in the future, trying to be able to do capital
investment, and trying to figure out where to be able to put
those dollars. There is a balance between reliability and
environmental issues. Obviously, these two sets of questions go
together on how we are actually capturing carbon in the
process, but people are trying to figure out where to go and
where to invest dollars and if they have to pause on that, the
American consumer is the one that is actually hurt in the
process. So thank you.
The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator.
And now we have Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman
and Ranking Member. Congratulations to all the nominees.
Mr. Phillips, let me start with you. Electric power systems
in many western states are under stress via wildfires,
persistent drought, and heatwaves. We have seen that time and
time again. It is now happening year-round. In fact, in 2021
there was a summer reliability report in which the North
American Electric Reliability Corporation recognized these
concerns and warned that western states are at an elevated risk
of energy shortfalls. We have been talking about that.
From your perspective, what challenges still exist when
assessing the vulnerabilities of our bulk power system to
extreme weather and in developing appropriate actions to plan
and adapt to mitigate these extreme weather conditions?
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Senator.
In my time at NERC, I actually worked on similar reports
that you are talking about regarding reliability, and as a
general matter, I believe that it is so critically important
that we address this issue and that we get it right. I want to
applaud the people at NERC and FERC. I believe that they have
some of the best legal minds and engineers working on these
issues. This is something that I continue to pay close
attention to and it is something that, if I am confirmed, I
think that we should look for opportunities to do more
collaborative work between FERC and NERC to make sure that you
have a meeting of these great minds, that they come together. I
believe that NERC has--under Section 215 of the Federal Power
Act--they have, by design, a very narrow view of reliability,
while FERC--its authority under the Federal Power Act is very
broad. It involves everything from transmission, natural gas,
dam safety. I believe that there is an opportunity to get both
of these excellent staffs together, even at the senior level,
to look for how we can better improve--even more--our
reliability.
Senator Cortez Masto. I appreciate that.
Long-term transmission planning based on potential growth
on electric loads and generation resource expansion will
continue to play a critical role in maintaining the flexibility
required for a reliable and robust transmission system. From
your perspective, how can FERC accelerate and enhance
transmission upgrades across the country?
Mr. Phillips. Well, first of all, I want to acknowledge
that FERC and NARUC--they announced this summer a joint task
force to look at the issue of transmission reform. I want to
actually say something about some of my colleagues. The Chair
of the Pennsylvania Commission, Gladys Brown Dutrieuille and
the Chair of the Maryland Commission, Jason Stanek, they are
serving on this task force. As a Commissioner at FERC, I would
pay close attention to the recommendations that come out of
that joint task force and also pay close attention and
participate to the extent that I can to make sure that we get
to the right answers.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
And now, Senator Hirono touched on this, so let me ask Mr.
Sams this question. If approved, how would you factor
environmental justice into future decisions and efforts at your
respective agency?
Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator, I appreciate the question.
You know, environmental justice is an important issue
across America. Folks, particularly people of color, suffered
disproportionately on some of those issues. I think that by
listening to those communities and talking to stakeholders, we
can find that balance to bring justice forward and to ensure
that things are repaired in a way that there are active voices
in the community in those discussion points on how we do
preservation in national parks.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. And you know, if
appointed, I would hope that you would come to us and be candid
with respect to your staffing concerns and issues that you have
talked about, along with the backlog that we know is out there
for our parks across the country. So please do not hesitate to
come forward.
Mr. Crabtree, there is no doubt you have extensive
knowledge in direct air capture (DAC), and let me just ask you
this--in your opinion, what additional growth in the clean
energy sector will be needed to support the negative emission
technologies?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thanks for the question. You are
right, that is a part of direct air capture that doesn't get
nearly as much discussion as the research, development, and
deployment of the direct air capture technology itself, is as
we scale this up, if you think about mid-century modeling of
getting to net zero and then ultimately getting to negative
emissions where we are pulling carbon from the atmosphere that
we have already put there--that imagines a level of deployment
that is at gigaton scale and the energy demands will be quite
significant.
I do not want to--I actually have reviewed analysis that's
modeled levels of energy--I do not recall the specifics so I
would be happy to address that in a question for the record.
Senator Cortez Masto. Absolutely.
Mr. Crabtree. But that, clearly, Senator, has to be part of
the long-term planning as we think about--well, for example, in
the Energy Infrastructure Act that came out of this Committee
and now is in the bipartisan infrastructure bill, there is
authorization for direct air capture hubs, as you surely know.
And that creates an opportunity to start to think about
creating the whole ecosystem that will be necessary to
commercialize and deploy this technology, not just the hardware
itself, but what has to be part of the whole system to make
that work and deliver on its climate goals.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Congratulations again.
Mr. Crabtree. Thank you, Senator.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Daines.
Senator Daines. Chairman Manchin, thank you, as well as
Ranking Member Barrasso. I want to thank the nominees for their
willingness to serve in these important positions. I invite you
each to come out to Montana and see firsthand how we understand
balance--how you can have energy production to make sure you
have great, high-paying jobs and reliable low-cost energy and
at the same time, conservation. We figured that out and I hope
you could come out and see what we do there and hope we could
apply these principles and bring balance to this discussion on
conservation and energy.
Mr. Sams, Senator King and I recently held a hearing to
examine the impact of increased visitation to our national
parks and other park units. We have seen major increases in
attendance at our national parks, parks like Yellowstone and
Glacier--record visitation in some cases. Increased visitation
can bring a lot of great benefits--more jobs, better revenues
for our gateway communities, more people exploring and
learning, and greater appreciation for the great outdoors--but
increased visitation also has had an impact on our park
employees, really stretching the limits on infrastructure as
well as the landscapes.
Mr. Sams, if confirmed, what actions would you consider
taking to encourage visitation while also ensuring that our
parks and our park employees are protected and have the
resources they need?
Mr. Sams. Well, thank you, Senator. First and foremost, I
think that our parks are crown jewels. And many Americans and
even many foreigners come to our parks to come and look at
them--and I think encouraging to have that displacement pushed
out a little bit further to some of the national monuments and
other parks that are not necessarily seeing as many visitors as
we would like them to--but I want to make sure that we have a
campaign that is very inclusive to bring everybody into the
parks so that they can enjoy these spaces.
Your discussion--and thank you for your conversation a
couple weeks ago--you know, the infrastructure issues that are
needed to ensure that staff had housing, I think, is a critical
issue in figuring out this housing, whether that is the
reconstruction of housing within the National Park System for
staff or whether that is public-private partnerships in those
gateway communities and working with local communities and
figuring out how we can help do housing development so folks
can move in. I know in your state, people are having to travel
as far as 50 miles away just to get to their duty station, and
we need to be able to figure this out in those gateway
communities and how to partner.
Senator Daines. Yes, as you know, many of us who represent
western states--they have discovered it is a great place to
live and we have a lot of folks moving there and it is putting
a lot of pressure on housing market prices, whether it is
buying or renting, and that directly affects the employees,
whether they are directly involved with the Park Service or the
supporting businesses.
Mr. Sams, last year we passed the historic Great American
Outdoors Act. It really, I think, is one of these great
achievements in conservation--perhaps the greatest achievement
in 50 years. It will help restore the best in our national
parks. If confirmed, you will be in charge of implementing that
program. What actions will you take to implement this important
legislation that we passed, and how will you ensure that
funding is distributed fairly among the parks and the states,
no matter their location or their size?
Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator.
While I am not in the Service and, if confirmed, I do want
to work with the dedicated staff there and really ensure how
projects are being ranked and how the money is going out is a
very transparent process, and that that information is shared,
of course, with the Committee and the Subcommittee on those
issues and wanting to make sure, if you will, the best bang for
the buck--ensuring that the investments that the American
people are making are going to those critical pieces of
infrastructure so that they will be sustainable for the next 50
to 75 years, looking at new technologies and ways to bring
those technologies out onto the ground and find where those
cost savings are.
Senator Daines. Mr. Sams, thank you.
Chairman Phillips, as you know, FERC's mission is to ensure
consumers have safe, reliable, and affordable energy. If
confirmed, you will be reviewing and approving natural gas
pipelines, electric transmission systems, hydroelectric dams,
and more. In Montana, energy production creates solid, great,
high-paying jobs and supports our communities and ensures that
the lights and the heat stay on during cold winter days. I have
to tell you, I was speaking with one of our co-ops just
yesterday, and they are very concerned on where the
Administration is headed, taking us down a path where Europe
finds itself today, with skyrocketing natural gas prices,
skyrocketing coal prices and oil prices.
Chairman Phillips, will you commit to reviewing proposals
that come before you at FERC fairly, without political or fuel
bias, and with a focus on FERC's core mission of ensuring safe,
reliable, and affordable energy for Montanans?
Mr. Phillips. Thank you and thank you for the conversation
that we had about this topic as well. I can tell you as a
regulator--what you just described, this is the core job. This
is what I do every day at the D.C. Public Service Commission. I
try to just focus on the facts, focus on the law, and try to
come to a reasoned principal decision--a public interest
determination. I believe that the public interest drives the
work of the Commission, and that as a regulator you have to
block out all the chatter and just focus on what is in front of
you.
Senator Daines. Chairman Phillips, thank you.
Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator King.
Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Crabtree, one of your responsibilities is natural gas
and LNG (liquefied natural gas). To put it as gently as I can,
we are seeing a doubling since last year of natural gas prices
and at the same time, the highest LNG exports in history, and
there are projects in the pipeline. We are now exporting about
10 percent of our daily production. There are projects in the
pipeline that will double that over the next year or so. Can't
you do something in your regulatory posture that will relate
exports to domestic prices? The low price of natural gas is a
competitive advantage for this country, vis-a-vis the rest of
the world. We are literally exporting that advantage.
Talk to me about the relationship between domestic prices
and exports. Senator Stabenow and I have been talking about
this for five years. Now it is coming to roost.
Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thank you for the question.
In this, the LNG and exports of LNG and the domestic use of
natural gas, they raise a series of concerns. On the one hand,
as you know, providing LNG to our friends and allies overseas
so that they are not dependent on production from our
adversaries is a benefit to our country and to global security.
Also----
Senator King. I understand that, but not including doubling
domestic price.
Mr. Crabtree. No, I'm sorry, Senator, what I was going to
say--but at the same time then it is the responsibility under
the Natural Gas Act, in the review that the Office of Fossil
Energy and Carbon Management of the DOE does to determine
whether a facility is in the national interest--the concern
about domestic prices has to be part of that consideration.
Senator King. Are those studies done before approving a new
LNG export license?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator, so----
Senator King. In other words, are there studies being
done--economic studies--to determine the effect on domestic
prices of a given LNG export increase?
Mr. Crabtree. So Senator, I want to be very candid with
you. As you can see from my personal background, it is not in
the area of regulating LNG, and I am very quickly doing the
best I can to understand the responsibilities of this office
and the roles and authorities of DOE, and it is my
understanding that domestic natural gas prices are a very
important consideration. As far as actual studies being done,
may I get back to you in terms of a question for the record?
Senator King. I have been asking this question for five
years. It is my understanding that it is not one of the
considerations that is being taken--that is being referred to
in this process. Will you commit to me to looking at that issue
and the relationship between exports and domestic prices?
Mr. Crabtree. I commit to you, if confirmed, to work with
the leadership at DOE to be responsive to this concern of
yours.
Senator King. Thank you.
Mr. Sams, you have a very impressive resume. The only thing
missing is--National Park Service. Convince me that you are
ready to take on this challenge having had no experience as a
park ranger or a park manager or otherwise having been involved
in the National Park Service.
Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator, I appreciate that.
You know, for the last decade, I have been part of the
executive team in managing one of our original reserves, which
is in a reservation, literally, Umatilla Indian Reservation,
which is an over 190,000-acre reservation, along with the six
million acres of land, co-managing with local, state, and
federal officials, and those will include also national parks,
park lands, and other resources. And over my career, I have
actually worked inside of national parks, mostly with
volunteers and eradicating invasive species, cleaning up and
doing preservation work in addition to providing additional
lands to national parks when I was with the Trust for Public
Land, and donating land, actually, to the national parks to
expand parks for visitation. And over the last decade, I have
worked very closely in my home state on a number of initiatives
of Oregon's outdoor initiative and its parks initiative,
helping the state director really figure out how we do
traditional ecological knowledge, how we do interpretation.
Senator King. When you take office--and I intend to support
your nomination--when you take office, you are not going to be
doing it alone. Will you commit to me to bringing in the
executive infrastructure with the experience in the National
Park Service to assist you in your management responsibilities?
Mr. Sams. Yes, Senator, I will definitely commit to that.
The long experience of the staff there is key to anything that
I would ever do.
Senator King. And this has been touched upon, but I think
one of your first areas of attention should be staffing. I have
a chart that I used at a prior hearing that shows Yellowstone's
visitation almost doubling. The staff is pretty much the same.
And in fact, staffing is something like 20 percent below where
it was 10 years ago, and yet visitation at the parks is
exploding. I hope that you will commit to a serious analysis of
staffing needs because not only is it not serving the public
adequately, but my understanding is it is driving down morale
within the Service, and that is not good.
Mr. Sams. Yes, sir. While I have not been in the Service, I
have looked at their surveys, and I see that very clearly. I am
committed to looking at the workforce development and how that
is going to take----
Senator King. Will you advocate within the Administration
for increased funding to the Park Service for staffing?
Mr. Sams. Yes, sir.
Senator King. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Senator Murkowski.
Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Gentlemen, I appreciated the opportunity to visit with each
of you by phone. I am struck that this is a pretty calm
hearing, all things considered. The fact that we have a FERC
nominee--we usually do not get such a calm proceeding. But in
my conversations with each of you I have been struck that you
come to these positions with a level of experience and
expertise and you seem like rational men. So that is a good
place to start today.
Mr. Crabtree, I enjoyed our conversation yesterday. I
shared with you that I have just come from Iceland, where they
are leading in some pretty cool things when it comes to CCUS. I
had an opportunity to be briefed by the folks at Carbfix, which
really focuses on the sequestration, if you will, within a
basalt geographic formation. And I was struck in my discussions
with them in looking at the map of the United States and where
we have identified significant geologic areas that could be
these receptors. So it was a good conversation with my
colleague, Mr. Lankford here, to talk about how this might play
out in America. But it is something that I think we need to
look to as we are moving forward with measures like 45Q, to
make sure that it is not just salinity-based geologic
formations that this is applicable to, but also basalt
formations. So I share that with you. I hope you had an
opportunity to look at what that Australian guy is doing with
iron ore.
Mr. Crabtree. I read the New York Times article last night,
Senator. Thank you for flagging it for me.
Senator Murkowski. So I am leading up to a question here,
which is that you have been involved with this Carbon Capture
Coalition here for a period of years. You obviously get briefed
on some interesting things. There is a lot that people would
say is pie in the sky. Coming from a state like Alaska, where
we produce, I believe that CCUS is going to be the key for us
to be able to continue to be producers. So I am curious to know
what you feel is the most promising technology out there that
can actually be moved to commercialization, sooner than later,
rather than designs on some kind of a drawing board right now.
Mr. Crabtree. Well, actually, Senator, there are so many
technologies. Thank you, first of all, for the question, for
your interest, and for meeting on your trip for the phone call
yesterday. It was great to talk with you.
I am actually struck by how many technologies have been
demonstrated at least once at commercial scale or that are very
close. One of the things that I am very heartened by in terms
of the posture of this Administration--and frankly, of Members
of Congress from both sides of the aisle and in the House and
the Senate--is the urgency of commercial demonstration. We have
the fruits of many, many years of work coming from the
Department of Energy and, of course, the Office of Fossil
Energy and Carbon Management in partnership with the labs, and
with industry. The result of all those years of work is we are
now ready to really ramp up deployment, and that is a
combination both of the tools of an office and of DOE, where
things like cost share and loans and things like that--but
coupling them, as you pointed out, with the existing 45Q tax
credit, potentially some of the enhancements that are being
considered on a bipartisan basis.
Senator Murkowski. I would suggest that we not just limit
our sights to what we have been doing here, but there are
strong examples around the world that we can look to so that we
are not reinventing here.
I am close on time here. I could spend all of my questions
with you, but I want to turn to Mr. Phillips.
I have mentioned Alaska's unique energy grid and our
system, and we come from a state where hydropower is really the
most reliable. It is certainly renewable. It provides somewhere
between 20 and 25 percent of our state's energy, but so much of
this is very small-scale projects, small rural communities. So
some of the challenges that have been faced are that these
smaller utilities have to go through the FERC for permits, and
it is challenging. It is challenging from a process
perspective. We want to gain the efficiencies from hydropower
but too often what we see are permitting and legal efficiencies
that make the cost of building out these small projects--they
are already capital-intensive, but you go through the
permitting process and now they are completely off the table.
What can you share with me about your understanding of what
we need to do to provide for this great resource, but also get
it through a process that is designed for big-build, not your
smaller utilities within your remote, rural communities?
Mr. Phillips. Thank you for the question and thank you for
your time when we talked.
You know, one thing that I talk about a lot is efficiency
and regulatory certainty and the decisions that a commission
makes. We talked about that during our call. I believe that I
will look for opportunities to make sure that your concerns,
which I share, that people have some type of expectation that
decisions that come regarding their livelihood, regarding
reliability of their power, that these are decisions that will
happen quickly. This is something I have been focused on and
something that I will continue to focus on.
Senator Murkowski. Well, I would encourage you to come to
Alaska and see what we are talking about when we are mentioning
what these small hydro projects really are, because I think for
some who have been used to big hydro, they cannot even imagine
the size, the scale that we are operating in within Alaska.
Mr. Sams, you and I had an opportunity to talk about the
Denali Park Road and what needs to be done with that as we are
seeing that road now being closed, at least for the next couple
of seasons there. We have an obligation under ANILCA (Alaska
National Interest Lands Conservation Act) to the inholders
there in Kantishna. You have told me you have been in there. So
we have to make sure that we are able to keep the commitment,
the obligation that we have to those inholders. We need to get
a permanent regional director for Region 11 confirmed. That has
been sitting open now for some time, and that creates a
leadership vacuum there. We have some work to do, but know that
that is something on which we want to stay in close contact
with you.
Mr. Chairman, I am well over my time, but thank you----
The Chairman. No, never. You are never over your time,
Senator.
Senator Murkowski. You are so good.
[Laughter.]
The Chairman. Senator Hickenlooper.
Senator Hickenlooper. Such blatant favoritism.
The Chairman. She'll yield back her time to you, Senator.
[Laughter.]
Senator Hickenlooper. So I am starting out at four minutes.
Mr. Sams, I want to submit for the record a letter of
support from Chairman Baker of the Southern Ute Tribe in
Colorado in support of your nomination. Chairman Baker
highlights Mr. Sams' decades of service to his tribe in land
management and related issues, and his courageous service to
our nation as a naval intelligence specialist and analyst
during wartime. Mr. Sams, thank you for your service. We are
honored to have you with us today, and I commend you for your
commitment to this work.
My staff submitted a copy of the letter to Committee staff
for the record.
[Letter of support for Mr. Sams follows:]
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Senator Hickenlooper. Now, Mr. Crabtree, it is wonderful
when I hear Senator Murkowski talking about basalt flows and
other mafic lavas, to get that geology into the record, and I
am not going to hold it against you that Matt Mead is a friend
of yours and a supporter of yours. That is the former
Republican Governor of Wyoming, who is a great friend, but I
also commend you for your service and all the work you have
done in looking at some of these innovations in clean energy
technologies. And historically, these innovations have relied
on a combination of tax incentives and DOE loans and grants and
other forms of assistance.
Can you talk just for a moment about how the newer
technologies, such as CCUS and DAC that we have been talking
about here, how does an operator's ability to intelligently
combine multiple incentives or awards, how does it accelerate
bringing these new technologies to market?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thank you. Thanks also for meeting
with me yesterday. It was great to finally meet you in person.
We missed that opportunity to connect while I was working with
the other Governors when you were Governor of Colorado. So I
enjoyed that.
And that is a great question. There is a difference between
emerging technologies for which there may be technological
experience at commercial scale, but not actual commercial
experience or commercial confidence in the marketplace, be it
operational or among investors. And in those instances, there
is greater commercial risk--investment risk--in deploying these
technologies. And if, through public policy and through the
programs of government, we want to make sure that we bring
those technologies into the marketplace, achieve deployment,
and bring costs down, it is critical that we are able to pair
policies of traditional tools that the Department of Energy
might have--loans, cost share, other types of, you know, also
other agencies bring things to the table--pairing those with
tax credits.
And you know, there are many examples I could point to, but
in the interest of brevity, one that I think people are aware
of that is very important is utility-scale solar. During the
financial crisis, as you know, the nation responded and
Congress responded with the stimulus legislation that included
funding for commercial-scale projects. And in the case of
utility-scale solar, the early project developers were able to
pair DOE loans with the investment tax credit and it was that
ability to pair the two that made possible the first
commercial-scale, utility-scale solar projects in this country.
Senator Hickenlooper. Absolutely. And I feel that that is
still--if you look at how successful that was and how important
it was and you recognize it, everyone from Bill Gates on down
the line realized that we were going to have to figure out how
to get carbon out of the air, in addition to wind and solar and
accelerating those transitions as well.
Mr. Crabtree. Yes.
Senator Hickenlooper. Pairing those together is obviously
going to be very important. So I appreciate your work on that
and your bipartisan approach.
Mr. Phillips, thank you for your service as well.
Obviously, the rest of the world is actively building
transmission, adding to the grid, while we seem to be twiddling
our thumbs to some extent. Since 2014, China has developed 260
gigawatts of new, interregional transmission capacity. So that
is 260 gigawatts. Would you like to guess how much the United
States has developed since 2014?
Mr. Phillips. I don't----
Senator Hickenlooper. I don't want to put you on the spot,
but it is three gigawatts. And I think that we have over 700
gigawatts waiting in line to for those investments to allow
them to get on the grid. So the need is there. China is out
there and we appear to be somewhat out to lunch. So my question
to you is, if confirmed, what can you do, what will you be able
to do to help improve transmission planning and alleviate our
interconnection bottleneck?
Mr. Phillips. As I mentioned earlier, FERC actually has an
ANOPR that is out right now to address just this issue. There
were over 200 questions proposed in the ANOPR. Comments came
in, initial comments on October 12th. I believe there is
another round of comments that will come in on November 30th.
And so you are asking the right questions, Senator, and I do
share your concerns that we need to find a way, if we are going
to meet our goals. I believe that electric transmission will
play an important part in doing that.
Senator Hickenlooper. Great, well, thank you. Your work is
every bit as important as anything, in terms of the transition
of this country to cleaner energy.
I am out of time, but Mr. Sams, maybe what I will do is put
a couple questions to you into the record. Obviously, I spent a
lot of time trying to make sure that we do get access to green
space for everyone, and the Trust for Public Land, obviously,
the big believer in this, we bought into some of their
frameworks of making sure that everybody is within a 10-minute
walk of a green space. You are going to be in a great position
to help that. So I will hold off, not put you on the spot now,
though I understand and respect you could easily answer any of
the questions, but I will make sure that we get them into the
record.
Mr. Sams. Thank you. I look forward to it.
Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you. When the Chair is finished
discussion with the great Senator from Alaska, I will yield
back the floor.
[Laughter.]
The Chairman. You are yielding back your minus----
Senator Hickenlooper. I yield back to the Senator from
Alaska.
The Chairman. Senator Lee, are you ready?
Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to each of you
for your service and for being here.
Mr. Sams, I would like to start with you, if that is okay.
We have had some issues in Utah. We have a lot of fantastic
national parks. They are national treasures. People love to
visit them. There have been some deferred maintenance backlog
issues that we have faced. Some of these have become especially
acute over the last year or so. For example, in the Glen Canyon
National Recreation Area and at Rainbow Bridge National
Monument, we are facing a real uphill battle as a result of
water levels at Lake Powell. The water levels are low, and so
low that when coupled with the maintenance issues that we have
at Lake Powell, people are not able to access the lake. We got
to the point where most of the ramps became unusable. They just
could not access them. This is a real national treasure, one
that people want to be able to access. They cannot really do it
right now.
So what I am hoping is that the National Park Service will
figure out how to determine the $229 million from an emergency
appropriation that can go to these things. And I hope it will
figure out how to use it well. But on top of this, there are
several additional projects that are meant to ensure continued
access to water, and those are in the queue for the Great
American Outdoors Act funds that have not been made a priority
yet for the agency. Now, all this is interesting to me when we
take into account the fact that Virginia and North Carolina and
New York have gotten significant funds under the Great American
Outdoors Act--receiving, in the case of Virginia, $247 million,
$153 million in the case of North Carolina, and $50.5 million
in the case of New York.
Do you have any idea what the percentage of total federal
land is that those states have? It is not significant. It is
not at a rate that one would conclude based on the amount of
money we spent there. In Virginia, they have 0.39 percent of
the entire federal estate. North Carolina, 0.39 percent, also
the same as Virginia. In New York, it is 0.03 percent of all
federal land. And yet, the land that Utah has, as a percentage
of the total federal land estate is 5.4 percent. Two-thirds of
my state is federal land. Between 66 and 67 percent of the land
is federal. We contribute greatly to everything from national
park visitation to federal revenues achieved through oil and
gas on our land. And yet, do you want to know how much money
Utah has received in Great American Outdoors Act funding? It is
only $7.3 million--$7.3 million out of the $1.6 billion in
deferred maintenance funding for public lands nationwide.
So Virginia got 15.6 percent of the funding with just 0.39
percent of the land. Utah got 0.45 percent of that funding with
5.4 percent of the land. That is less than half a percent. If
Utah were to have received funding under that same legislation
at the same rate as Virginia, all of the $1.6 billion in that
act would have gone to Utah. Do you feel like that allocation,
as I have just described it, is that fair and equitable? Is
that a fair and equitable allocation of those funds?
Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator.
I am very committed, while I am not currently in the
Service, of really reviewing exactly how they come up with this
formula and making sure that it is done in a transparent way,
working with this Committee and the Subcommittee on this issue
and bringing that back to you for review and discussion.
Senator Lee. Great, I would appreciate that.
And beyond making it transparent, what else can you do to
ensure continued access to critical National Park Service units
within my state?
Mr. Sams. I want to work closely with you, Senator, and the
members of your state delegation, along with the local
stakeholders. My family and I are very much water recreational
users. We understand that issue. My wife, who is right behind
me, was a river raft guide on the Green River in your great
state. We have been there many times to enjoy it, and I am
committed to figuring out how to make this work.
Senator Lee. Fantastic, fantastic. I imagine you visited
Lake Powell in that instance?
Mr. Sams. Yes.
Senator Lee. In which case, you know what I am talking
about.
Mr. Chairman, I see my time is expired. I have one more
brief question. Can I ask that?
The Chairman. Oh, there is no problem at all.
Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to
compliment the Chairman for being such a good Chairman. He is
fantastic. Handsome man, kind, benevolent----
[Laughter.]
Senator Lee. Mr. Sams, you are probably aware that when
national parks were created, they were created in such a way as
to make sure that they did not impede on low-impact economic
uses, things like grazing. What can you do to help preserve
these prior existing rights, like grazing, while taking care of
our parks?
Mr. Sams. You know, it is finding that important balance. I
have worked on this with treaty issues across the United
States, with tribes and with my own tribe, to ensure that those
accesses are available, because they are not opposite, they are
compatible as long as they are done in a respectful way. So I
am committed to working with you on that if confirmed.
Senator Lee. Great. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
And now we have Senator Mark Kelly from the great State of
Arizona.
Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to follow up on Senator Lee's line of questioning
here about Glen Canyon National Recreation Area, Lake Powell,
the water level being at 30 percent, the boat ramps. I just
want to get very specific here, but along the lines of where
Senator Lee was going here. Do you think it is possible, Mr.
Sams, for the National Park Service to utilize funding under
the Great American Outdoors Act to adapt Lake Powell boat ramps
for drought?
Mr. Sams. Well, thank you, Senator.
I do believe that there is opportunity also to do
additional fundraising for that effort and making sure that
money has been brought to bear for the boat ramp issue.
Senator Kelly. You say additional fundraising, but how
about using the money under the existing Great American
Outdoors Act?
Mr. Sams. It is possible----
Senator Kelly. Okay. And if confirmed, could you look into
that for us?
Mr. Sams. Yes, sir.
Senator Kelly. Thank you.
Mr. Crabtree, we are facing escalating fuel prices in
Arizona and across the country. A gallon of gas now is about
$3.34 in Arizona and nationwide. Families in my state cannot
afford higher gas prices, while the price of crude oil
continues to hover around eighty dollars a barrel. I understand
that the Administration is engaging OPEC to increase supply and
may even consider selling some of our oil from the Strategic
Petroleum Reserve or restricting some U.S. oil exports. Mr.
Crabtree, Arizona gets most of its gasoline by pipeline from
refiners in Southern California and West Texas. If confirmed,
do I have your commitment that any action the Department may
take on rising gas prices closely examines how refinery
capacity in both of those states impacts Arizona?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thank you for the question.
Obviously, ensuring energy availability and affordability
is job one. I commit to you, within the Administration, to work
with leadership at DOE to do what we can in terms of existing
authorities to address that. As far as the specifics of
refineries, I would appreciate the opportunity to get back to
you in a question for the record on something of that specific
nature, if that is appropriate.
Senator Kelly. Yes, thank you. Thank you for that. Over $3
a gallon. We are a big state. You know, people have long
drives. This is starting to get, I mean, it already is, it is
incredibly expensive for families and we need to address this.
Mr. Sams, I want to come back to you in our remaining amount of
time here. My next question is about uranium mining around
Grand Canyon National Park. Senator Sinema and I sponsored
legislation that would protect Grand Canyon--the canyon and the
water supply for the Havasupai Tribe from contamination from
uranium mining. If confirmed, will you agree to meet with
leaders of the Havasupai Tribe about this issue and any other
concerns that they might have about the management of the Grand
Canyon moving forward?
Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator. Yes, I look forward to
meeting with them and discussing this issue. My daughter, who
is sitting behind me, just returned from a trip there--from the
Grand Canyon this weekend.
Senator Kelly. Nothing like it.
Mr. Sams. There isn't.
Senator Kelly. Not only in Arizona, in the country, on the
planet.
Mr. Sams. Yes.
Senator Kelly. And I have seen a lot of the planet.
[Laughter.]
Senator Kelly. I think I have about a minute and a half.
Mr. Crabtree, I want to come back to you for a second. I
understand you are an advocate of carbon capture technology?
Mr. Crabtree. Yes, sir.
Senator Kelly. We have a cutting-edge program at Arizona
State University that is working on direct air carbon capture--
the ASU Center for Negative Carbon Emissions. In June, the
Department of Energy selected the Center to develop a carbon
farm of mechanical trees that are 1,000 times more efficient at
pulling carbon from the atmosphere. Are you aware of ASU's work
with DOE and how would you describe its potential?
Mr. Crabtree. Senator, thanks for the question. I am
generally aware of ASU's work. I have had the opportunity and
the privilege to meet with some of the individuals involved.
One of them, as you know, is famous in the field for his
leadership--and I would argue it is direct air capture, but
also carbon utilization as well, taking captured carbon and
transforming it into valuable products and reducing emissions
in the process. So ASU has clearly stepped up early in playing
a leadership role. And if confirmed, I very much look forward
to working with the team at ASU on the things that they are
doing.
Senator Kelly. Well, thank you, Mr. Crabtree and I yield
back 10 seconds.
The Chairman. Oh my God, I can't believe it.
[Laughter.]
The Chairman. I feel like I am rich with time.
Let me say this to all of you, I want to thank all of you
for your willingness to serve in these high positions and most
needed positions for our government, coming here and answering
in the most, I think, professional manner, the way you all
handled yourselves. I feel very confident we have three
nominees that are going to be confirmed, with my dialogue with
my colleagues on both sides of the aisle. And we are going to
need your input, I can tell you, all through this process,
because we have a long way to go and we have to bring this
country together. We really do. And that is what your job is--
to help us heal the country and start working more as a united
country and not allowing it to be more divided.
So with that, I would like to say that members have until
6:00 p.m. tomorrow to submit additional questions for the
record.
And the Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:57 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
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