[Senate Hearing 117-409]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 117-409

                      NOMINATIONS OF JOHN K. TIEN,
                ROBERT P. SILVERS, AND JONATHAN E. MEYER

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
               HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS


                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

           NOMINATION OF JOHN K. TIEN TO BE DEPUTY SECRETARY,
          DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, ROBERT P. SILVER TO
          BE UNDER SECRETARY FOR STRATEGY, POLICY, AND PLANS,
 DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, AND JONATHAN E. MEYER TO BE GENERAL 
                COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

                               __________

                              MAY 27, 2021

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                       Printed for the use of the
        Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
        
        
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                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                    
45-985 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2022                   
        
        

        COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS

                   GARY C. PETERS, Michigan, Chairman
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware           ROB PORTMAN, Ohio
MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire         RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin
KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona              RAND PAUL, Kentucky
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
ALEX PADILLA, California             MITT ROMNEY, Utah
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  RICK SCOTT, Florida
                                     JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri

                   David M. Weinberg, Staff Director
                    Zachary I. Schram, Chief Counsel
         Christopher J. Mulkins, Director of Homeland Security
                      Claudine J. Brenner, Counsel
                Pamela Thiessen, Minority Staff Director
    Andrew Dockham, Minority Chief Counsel and Deputy Staff Director
       Kirsten D. Madison, Minority Director of Homeland Security
     Clyde E. Hicks, Jr., Minority Senior Professional Staff Member
        Shani M. Rosenstock, Minority Professional Staff Member
           Andrew J. Timm, Minority Professional Staff Member
                     Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk
                     Thomas J. Spino, Hearing Clerk


                            C O N T E N T S

                                 ------                                
Opening statements:
                                                                   Page
    Senator Peters...............................................     1
    Senator Portman..............................................     2
    Senator Carper...............................................     6
    Senator Lankford.............................................    22
    Senator Scott................................................    25
    Senator Hassan...............................................    27
    Senator Ossoff...............................................    29
    Senator Rosen................................................    31
    Senator Hawley...............................................    33
    Senator Padilla..............................................    36
    Senator Sinema...............................................    38
Prepared statements:
    Senator Peters...............................................    43
    Senator Portman..............................................    45

                               WITNESSES
                         Thursday, May 27, 2021

Hon. Jack Reed, a U.S. Senator from the State of Rhode Island....     5
Hon. Sherrod Brown, a U.S. Senator from the State of Ohio........     8
John K. Tien to be Deputy Secretary, U.S. Department of Homeland 
  Security
    Testimony....................................................     9
    Prepared statement...........................................    48
    Biographical and professional information....................    50
    Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics.................    76
    Responses to pre-hearing questions...........................    80
    Responses to post-hearing questions..........................   122
    Letters of support...........................................   127
Robert P. Silvers to be Under Secretary for Strategy, Policy, and 
  Plans, U.S. Department of Homeland Security
    Testimony....................................................    11
    Prepared statement...........................................   138
    Biographical and professional information....................   140
    Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics.................   162
    Responses to pre-hearing questions...........................   168
    Responses to post-hearing questions..........................   203
    Letters of support...........................................   216
Jonathan E. Meyer to be General Counsel, U.S. Department of 
  Homeland Security
    Testimony....................................................    12
    Prepared statement...........................................   224
    Biographical and professional information....................   226
    Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics.................   251
    Responses to pre-hearing questions...........................   256
    Responses to post-hearing questions..........................   277
    Letters of support...........................................   284

                                APPENDIX

PSI Report.......................................................   287
NARA Letters.....................................................   292

 
                      NOMINATIONS OF JOHN K. TIEN,
                        ROBERT P. SILVERS, AND 
                           JONATHAN E. MEYER

                              ----------                              


                         THURSDAY, MAY 27, 2021

                                     U.S. Senate,  
                           Committee on Homeland Security  
                                  and Governmental Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m., via 
Webex and in room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. 
Gary C. Peters, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Peters, Carper, Hassan, Sinema, Rosen, 
Padilla, Ossoff, Portman, Johnson, Lankford, Romney, Scott, and 
Hawley.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN PETERS\1\

    Chairman Peters. The Committee will come to order.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Peters appear in the Appendix 
on page 43.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Today we are considering three nominations for important 
roles at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS): Colonel 
John Tien to be Deputy Secretary; Robert Silvers to be the 
Under Secretary for Strategy, Policy, and Plans; and Jonathan 
Meyer to be General Counsel (GC).
    Welcome to each of you and welcome to your family members 
who I just had a chance to meet. It is great to have them here 
joining us today. Congratulations on your nominations, and 
thank you for your previous service and for your willingness to 
take on some critical positions at the Department of Homeland 
Security.
    The threats facing our Nation today are very different from 
those we faced when the Department was created in the aftermath 
of the September 11, 2001 (9/11) terrorist attacks. However, 
DHS's mission remains the same, that is, to safeguard the 
American people.
    To successfully carry out this essential mission, DHS needs 
committed and qualified leaders, leaders who will support and 
empower the more than 250,000 dedicated employees who serve 
across the Department.
    The lack of consistent leadership at DHS during the last 
administration exacerbated many of the Department's 
longstanding challenges.
    I am encouraged by the strong leadership Secretary Mayorkas 
has shown since taking office earlier this year, and I am 
pleased that we are now considering three highly accomplished 
and truly dedicated public servants for senior roles in the 
Department.
    Mr. Tien is a retired U.S. Army Colonel, whose 24-year 
career includes three combat tours in Iraq and national 
security roles in the Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama White 
Houses. For the past decade, Mr. Tien has been a leader in the 
private sector, where he has held senior executive roles at 
Citigroup and managed complex organizations and operations.
    Mr. Silvers' public service includes several senior roles 
at the Department of Homeland Security, including Deputy Chief 
of Staff and Assistant Secretary for Cyber Policy during the 
Obama Administration. As a lawyer in the private sector since 
2017, Mr. Silvers has been a leader on cybersecurity, data 
privacy, and artificial intelligence (AI) issues.
    Mr. Meyer's previous government experience spans 17 years 
and includes senior roles in the Department of Justice (DOJ), 
the U.S. Senate, and as the Deputy General Counsel for DHS 
during the Obama Administration. Since returning to private 
practice in 2016, Mr. Meyer's legal work has continued to focus 
on cybersecurity, technology, and homeland security.
    We have received bipartisan letters of support for each of 
these nominees, including from former national security 
officials who served in both Democratic and Republican 
presidents' administrations. Without objection, these letters 
will be entered into the record.\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The letters referenced by Senator Peters appears in the 
Appendix on page 292.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    All three nominees bring valuable experience from both the 
public and the private sectors, perspective that is especially 
important as DHS works to build and strengthen critical 
partnerships.
    The recent SolarWinds hack and the Colonial Pipeline 
ransomware attack are only the latest reminders that the 
Federal Government, and DHS in particular, has to do more on 
this front.
    Partnerships with the private sector, other Federal 
agencies, and State and local entities are essential to 
safeguarding our Nation from evolving threats. From cyber 
attacks to the rise in domestic violent extremism (DVE) to the 
next pandemic, historic flood, or hurricane, the success of DHS 
depends on successful partnerships.
    Congress must also be one of the Department's key partners. 
I expect that, if confirmed, each of you will all work closely 
and transparently with this Committee to tackle the pressing 
homeland security challenges that we face.
    I look forward to hearing more from each of you here today 
about your qualifications and your plans to support the 
Department of Homeland Security's mission to protect Americans 
from threats that we face today and those that we will most 
certainly face in the months and years ahead.
    With that, I will turn it over to Ranking Member Portman 
for your opening comments.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PORTMAN\2\

    Senator Portman. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I 
appreciate it. Welcome, Mr. Tien, Mr. Silvers, and Mr. Meyer. 
Thanks for your willingness to step up and serve, in all three 
of your cases to serve again.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ The prepared statement of Senator Portman appears in the 
Appendix on page 45.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You have been nominated for positions that impact the 
direction and priority of the Department in fundamental ways, 
and as I have told each of you in our conversations prior to 
this hearing, this is a critical time for the Department. DHS 
has got as its mission to protect the homeland, and a lot of 
dedicated personnel have been doing that. But the threat has 
evolved significantly, and the Department has got to evolve to 
meet those threats.
    In recent months, my view is DHS has struggled to address 
those risks and threats in a number of ways.
    One, we are facing a real crisis at the Southern Border, 
obviously, and as the Biden administration, in its first days, 
unwound the previous administration's immigration policies, we 
quickly saw the Department struggle to secure the border in the 
midst of what really is an unprecedented migrant surge.
    I recently visited the Southern Border with Chairman Peters 
and others where I witnessed firsthand what was happening: 
Border Patrol facilities overcrowded with unaccompanied alien 
children (UAC). Over 108,000 single adults were apprehended at 
the border last month. That is up from 96,000 in March and 
seven times greater than last April. On top of that, the Border 
Patrol conservatively estimates that 40,000 people who crossed 
illegally were not apprehended or confronted at all but just 
``got away,'' meaning came into the interior.
    We cannot ignore the need for sound policies to stem the 
surge. It is unacceptable to shift this burden to frontline 
personnel and expect them to be able to manage the consequences 
of bad decisionmaking here in Washington.
    Further, the migrant surge has strained the capacity of the 
Department to fulfill its other missions at the border, and 
that includes national security, protecting our border, such as 
intercepting the flow of dangerous drugs into our country. In 
fact, as our law enforcement personnel became overwhelmed with 
the migration surge, drug traffickers have known precisely how 
to press their advantage, and they have done it, and we have 
seen it on the border repeatedly.
    This leads to a genuine risk to our citizens. Reports show 
that the seizures of fentanyl coming across the border have 
tripled in 2021 compared to 2020. That does not tell the story, 
as you know, because the vast majority of these drugs are not 
being apprehended. But what you will hear on the border when 
you visit is that these drugs are coming over in record 
amounts, and it is happening at a time, during this pandemic, 
when overdoses are rising in the United States, including 
overdose deaths at record highs over the past year. We have the 
most recent data now, from September 2019 to September 2020, 
showing the highest number of overdose deaths in the history of 
our country. Being able to intercept these drugs helps in terms 
of reducing the supply, therefore, the amount of drugs that is 
getting into our communities but also the cost of those drugs.
    Cyberattacks, second, are a huge issue that you are going 
to be facing at the Department of Homeland Security, should you 
be confirmed. The national security secrets that are being 
taken, the personal information has to be addressed more 
effectively. Attacks like SolarWinds, Microsoft Exchange, and 
most recently Colonial Pipeline demonstrate the risks that we 
face.
    As the SolarWinds attack unfolded, it became clear that the 
Department tasked with securing Federal networks--was itself 
compromised. DHS should be an example for Federal agencies, but 
it was hacked. Frankly, we are not following the proper cyber 
hygiene to be able to avoid the attacks. It is clear that our 
Federal cyber defenses are lacking.
    Cyber, of course, can also have real-world implications, as 
we saw in the Colonial Pipeline attack. They shut down a major 
U.S. fuel pipeline for several days, leading to fuel shortages 
and higher prices. DHS plays an important role in supporting 
critical infrastructure cybersecurity, and it must work better 
to support critical infrastructure owners and operators to 
improve cybersecurity across the board. Frankly, we need to 
help here with new legislation, in my view, to provide more 
authority to do that.
    Finally, homegrown threats directly put our citizens at 
risk. It has become apparent in the Committee's investigation 
into the events of January 6th, the Department's Office of 
Intelligence and Analysis (I&A) fell short in reporting on the 
growing threat.
    The attack on the Capitol on January 6th was a sobering 
reminder of the domestic threats we face. These threats are 
becoming increasingly complex, and DHS must move to quickly 
evolve, adapt, and address these now so that the Nation is not 
left unprotected. DHS must be clear about its mission and the 
tools at its disposal to counter these threats, and, of course, 
balance freedom of expression with our security concerns.
    There is also a growing concern about the increasing number 
of assaults targeting Federal law enforcement and government 
facilities. Attacks on law enforcement officers are an 
unacceptable attack on the rule of law and the safety and 
security of the American people.
    Of course, in addition to these man-made threats, the 
predictions for this year's hurricane season, which starts in a 
few days, indicate another higher than average number of 
significant storms headed our way. Those risks are always 
there, and that is part of DHS' role as well through the 
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).
    Each of these issues reflects the very real threats our 
homeland faces. Having sound policies and strategies, 
resourcing plans, and effective implementation governance 
across the department are essential to addressing them. And 
having the right people in place is essential. If you are 
confirmed as part of the core leadership team of our Nation's 
third largest department, you will each have a responsibility 
to ensure that the Department is able to secure our country and 
meet the demands of today's complex, evolving, and dynamic 
threat environment.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Ranking Member Portman.
    Next, each of our witnesses is going to be formally 
introduced by some of our Senate colleagues.
    First, we have a video from Senator Reed to introduce 
Colonel Tien.

 OPENING OF HONORABLE JACK REED, A UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM 
                   THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND

    Senator Reed. Chairman Peters, Ranking Member Portman, and 
Members of the Committee, I am pleased to introduce John Tien, 
President Biden's nominee to serve as the Deputy Secretary of 
Homeland Security.
    I first met John in 1997 when he was an active-duty U.S. 
Army Captain transferring from the command of an M1A1 Abrams 
tank company at Fort Hood in order to begin teaching 
assignments at West Point United States Military Academy 
(USMA). Since then, he has continued to excel and impress. He 
came to Washington, D.C., in the late 1990s as a White House 
fellow, serving in the Office of the United States Trade 
Representative (USTR), where he worked on several interagency 
actions supporting the USTR engagements with the World Trade 
Organization (WTO) and other entities.
    The next 12 years of John's Army career represented the 
kind of operational command and strategic planning experience 
that have prepared him for the role of Deputy Secretary. He was 
the second in command of the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment at 
Fort Irwin, a battalion commander in Germany, a combat-deployed 
Army task force commander in Iraq in some of the most difficult 
fighting, a National Security Council (NSC) Staff Director for 
Iraq in the Bush Administration, and the National Security 
Council Senior Director for Afghanistan and Pakistan in the 
Obama Administration.
    In all of these experiences, John demonstrated a commitment 
to our Nation that embodies what we need at the Department of 
Homeland Security: a public servant who has led men and women 
in high-stakes operations and fought to defend the Constitution 
of the United States. His military awards and decorations 
reflect this service and include the Bronze Star Medal, the 
Combat Action Badge, and the Valorous Unit Award.
    As a Member of this Committee, the Deputy Secretary's role 
at DHS is one of the most challenging assignments in the 
Federal Government because of the size and broad 
responsibilities of the Department. For this job, we need a 
person who not only understands this complex agency but who can 
also effectively manage its more than 240,000 employees.
    In the last 10 years in the private sector, John has shown 
that he has the skills to meet this managerial challenge. 
Indeed, he has held a number of senior executive positions at 
Citigroup, overseeing tens of thousands of employees in 
different locations across the global and helping to manage 
multi-billion-dollar revenue streams and budgets. John brings a 
wealth of experience and credentials to this post: first in his 
class at West Point; indeed, the first Asian American to 
achieve this distinction; a Rhodes scholar; a 24-year veteran 
of the United States Army; and a decade of private sector 
leadership. He has earned the respect and endorsement of a 
bipartisan group of national security and government leaders 
from the last four administrations who have written on his 
behalf. These leaders have said that they believe John Tien is 
exceptionally well qualified to be the next Deputy Secretary of 
Homeland Security. I wholeheartedly agree, and I urge you to 
support his nomination.
    Thank you.
    Chairman Peters. Next Mr. Silvers will be introduced by one 
of our own distinguished Members of this Committee----
    Senator Carper. No, I thought I was introducing him. 
[Laughter.]
    Chairman Peters. You are indeed. Senator Carper, you are 
recognized for your introduction.

              OPENING STATMENET OF SENATOR CARPER

    Senator Carper. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, to 
Rob and Alison and his family. I want to say to Colonel Tien 
that our colleague Jack Reed was going through all your 
experience and everything, in Delaware when people have a 
resume like that, you know what we say about them? We say they 
are showing off. That was really impressive. My family and I 
have been using United States Automobile Association (USAA) for 
auto insurance and other insurance for, gosh 50 years. At USAA 
they have a saying: ``We know what it means to serve.'' When I 
read your resume and got more familiar with that, and Rob 
Silvers' as well, I just thought: You know what it means to 
serve. All of you know what it means to serve. We are grateful 
for that.
    The last time I was asked to introduce a nominee for this 
Department was John Kelly who was nominated to be our 
Secretary. I sat on one side of him, and the late Senator John 
McCain sat on the other side, and it was an honor for Senator 
John McCain and for me, and it is an honor to be asked to do 
this today.
    I was present when we created the Department of Homeland 
Security literally in this room. I worked with Democrats and 
Republicans, led by Senators Susan Collins and Joe Lieberman, 
and we took the hand-off from the 9/11 Commission, who gave us 
really great ideas and great input. You may recall, colleagues, 
they gave us something like 42 recommendations from the 9/11 
Commission, unanimous, a Commission led by former New Jersey 
Governor Tom Kean and former Congressman Lee Hamilton, who was 
one of my mentors for me when I was new in the U.S. Senate.
    But I want to say, as someone who has watched and was 
present at the creation and very much involved in helping the 
Department of Homeland Security to be assembled and to grow and 
to mature, how proud I am of the Department and the men and 
women who serve today and the men and women who have served.
    Last month alone, I led a congressional delegation (CODEL) 
down to El Paso and had a chance to be with a number of folks 
from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and I could 
not have been more impressed and more grateful for the tough 
jobs that they are doing down there and doing well.
    My wife and I traveled out to California to see one of our 
sons and do a bunch of business visits down there for 
technology purposes, and I had an opportunity just to watch the 
Transportation Security Administration (TSA) in action and to 
say how impressed I was with them. So you have been part of a 
great organization, several of you, and God willing you will be 
confirmed and have an opportunity to lead in new and important 
ways.
    I would just say that the most important characteristic or 
one of the most important qualities in any organization I have 
ever been a part of in terms of being successful is leadership. 
It is always leadership. I do not care if you are a baseball 
team. I do not care if you are a college university. I do not 
care if you are a business. I do not care if you are a 
committee in the Senate. It is always leadership. We are really 
blessed by first-caliber, first-rate leaders here in this day 
in these nominees, so we thank you for that.
    I want to say also John Tien is married to a wonderful 
woman named Tracy. I think she might be sitting behind him. 
Tracy, would you stand up, please? We do not normally do this. 
Tracy, God bless you. Thank you for sharing a very good man 
with all of us.
    I thank Jonathan's wife, Lauren, who is here. Lauren, would 
you stand up? Lauren, thank you. Lauren also has--Jonathan, 
help me. Doesn't she have a Jewish name or a Hebrew name? Is it 
``Sabbath''? What is it?
    Mr. Meyer. It is the word ``Shulamite,'' which comes from 
the word ``Shalom.''
    Senator Carper. Ah, there you go. All right. Very nice to 
see you, Lauren.
    Rob Silvers, where is Alison? Great to see you. Not only 
are these guys blessed with wonderful wives, but they also have 
children. I think John and Tracy have a couple of daughters, 
Amanda and Rebecca. Jonathan Meyer and Lauren have a couple of 
children: Ezra, right out of the Bible, and Jordana, also right 
out of the Bible. Rob Silvers and Alison have a couple of kids: 
Ricky--and I tried to figure out if Ricky was named after Ricky 
Nelson or Rickey Henderson, the great baseball player--and 
Heidi.
    I want to say to the spouses how important it is that you 
be here. Every one of us who sits up on this side of the dais 
can tell you we do not do these jobs by ourselves. Those of us 
who are lucky enough, we have a spouse who is very helpful and 
critical when we need it and supportive when we need that as 
well. So we thank each of you, Tracy, Lauren, and Alison, for 
sharing your spouses with us--not with this Committee, not with 
this body, but with our country.
    The Department of Homeland Security, as we know, is an 
agency with a budget of about $50 billion and a staff of almost 
a quarter of a million men and women. DHS is charged with a 
number of critical missions in protecting our Nation. The 
Ranking Member went through some of those, as did the Chairman.
    As I listened to Rob run through the threats that we expect 
this Department to be prepared to address, it reminded me of a 
great song called ``The Song Remains the Same.'' The mission 
actually remains the same, but actually it does change over 
time, when some things were more critical and more important 
than others. It is a handful of things to keep an eye on and a 
watch on, and we are grateful for that.
    DHS is charged with several critical missions in protecting 
our Nation, and as the Department mission statement says, it 
says, ``The threat environment continues to evolve. We must 
work together to ensure a safe, secure, and prosperous 
homeland.'' That is really the mission. From the clear and 
present threat of domestic terrorism to responding to the 
increases in cybersecurity and ransomware attacks on our 
critical infrastructure, to helping distribute relief and 
response in the face of natural disasters, there is no shortage 
of work to be done. It has been that way for 20 years, and it 
will continue to be for as long as we are a Nation.
    Now more than ever, it is crucial that the Department have 
Senate-confirmed, qualified leadership, and that is why I am 
pleased to introduce Rob Silvers today, President Biden's need 
to be the Under Secretary for Strategy, Policy, and Plans of 
the Department of Homeland Security. Part of the mission of the 
Under Secretary is to coordinate and develop policy among the 
various DHS components and advise the Secretary and the Deputy 
Secretary.
    Mr. Silvers is an excellent choice to serve as the 
Department's policy lead because he brings significant 
experience across these wide-ranging mission spaces, serving 
for nearly 6 years at the Department from 2011 to 2017, a part 
of the time I was privileged to be Ranking Member and also the 
Chairman of this Committee, serving alongside of an old friend 
named Tom Coburn, who we just had a memorial service for in 
Tulsa, Oklahoma, last month to celebrate his life.
    I had the pleasure of meeting Rob Silvers during his last 
tenure at the Department. Mr. Silvers served as Assistant 
Secretary for Cyber Policy, and he also led the Department's 
work on cyber incident response policy. That was a busy job 
then, and it is a busy job today.
    Before he was appointed Assistant Secretary, Mr. Silvers 
served as DHS Deputy Chief of Staff helping to oversee 
management and policy across DHS' 240,000 employees and 22 
component agencies. This experience will serve Mr. Silvers well 
if he is confirmed as Under Secretary. He knows the Department, 
and he will be ready to serve on day one. No on-the-job 
training (OJT) for him. No need for any of these nominees to 
have on-the-job training. You will be ready to go from the get-
go.
    The American people are counting on seasoned leadership at 
DHS after years of vacancies at the agency. I applaud President 
Biden for nominating Rob Silvers, and I encourage our 
colleagues to confirm him swiftly.
    Again, to Mr. Silvers, to his wife, Alison, and their 
family Ricky and Heidi, we want to thank you for your 
willingness to serve and for the willingness of your families 
to serve, to share you with all of us.
    With that, I bid you good luck. Thank you.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Carper.
    We now have a video from Senator Sherrod Brown to formally 
introduce Mr. Meyer.

  OPENING OF HONORABLE SHERROD BROWN, A UNITED STATES SENATOR 
                     FROM THE STATE OF OHIO

    Senator Brown. Chairman Peters, Ranking Member, my Ohio 
colleague, Senator Portman, I am proud today to introduce to 
the Committee a proud son of Ohio, Jonathan Meyer, who 
President Biden has nominated to serve as General Counsel of 
the Department of Homeland Security.
    As the Chief Legal Officer (CLO) of the Department, he 
would be charged with protecting America's rights and liberties 
that fall under the Department's work. Jon grew up in 
Cincinnati, with a few years living in Jerusalem. He graduated 
summa cum laude from Cincinnati's Walnut Hills High School. He 
earned his undergraduate degree from Harvard, he earned a 
Master's in Public Affairs from Princeton and his law degree 
from Columbia.
    Jon has dedicated his life to public service. He spent 7 
years on Capitol Hill in both Houses of Congress on both sides 
of the aisle, including working for Ohio's own Congressman Bill 
Gradison. He also served--and I believe Bill Gradison--in fact, 
I more than believe--was Congressman Portman's predecessor. He 
served in high positions in the Executive Branch as both the 
Deputy Assistant Attorney General in two administrations at DOJ 
and as Deputy General Counsel at the Department of Homeland 
Security where the President has nominated him to return as 
General Counsel. At DHS, Jon's service earned him the respect 
of his peers. He was awarded both the Secretary of Homeland 
Security's Outstanding Service Medal, which is DHS' highest 
civilian honor, and the U.S. Secret Service (USSS) Director's 
Honor Award, among other honors. Four of the five people who 
held the position to which Jon is nominated, General Counsel, 
not only support his nomination, but have written to the 
Committee to publicly express that support.
    Public service is an honor and a privilege. Jon understands 
that. He is ready to get to work for the American people whom 
we all serve.
    Thanks, Mr. Chairman, for giving me a few moments.
    Chairman Peters. It is the practice of this Committee to 
swear in our witnesses, so if each of you will please stand and 
raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you will 
give before this Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you, God?
    Mr. Tien. I do.
    Mr. Silvers. I do.
    Mr. Meyer. I do.
    Chairman Peters. You may be seated.
    The Committee will now hear from each of our nominees. 
Colonel Tien, you may proceed with your opening remarks.

TESTIMONY OF JOHN TIEN,\1\ NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY SECRETARY, U.S. 
                DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

    Mr. Tien. Chairman Peters, Ranking Member Portman, and 
distinguished Members of the Committee, it is an honor to 
appear before you today. I would like to thank President Biden 
for nominating me, Secretary Mayorkas for wanting me to be on 
his team, and Senator Reed for giving me that very kind 
introduction. To Senator Reed, you continue to be a great 
public servant role model to all of us who graduated from West 
Point.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Tien appears in the Appendix on 
page 48.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In fact, it was 34 years ago to this very day, May 27, 
1987, along with my 1,000 plus fellow classmates, that I 
graduated from West Point and commissioned as a Second 
Lieutenant in the United States Army. Our West Point Class of 
1987 motto is ``Our Country We Strengthen.''
    For my next 24 years of active-duty service, I tried to do 
just that: strengthen our country. I did it in peacetime; I did 
it in wartime. In 2006, I was given the privilege to lead more 
than 1,100 Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines in combat 
operations in Iraq as the Task Force 2-37 Armor Battalion 
Commander. If confirmed, it would be the honor of my lifetime 
to once again serve alongside my fellow Americans, and in this 
case, alongside the 240,000 amazing Homeland Security 
employees, in helping safeguard our homeland.
    Safeguarding our homeland, whether it is in the Army or in 
the Department of Homeland Security, is a team effort for me 
and my family. In that light, I am so happy that my life 
partner since senior year of high school is here with me today, 
my wife, Tracy. I love you and I thank you for supporting me in 
this next possible life chapter of service. To our two 
daughters, Amanda and Rebecca, who are watching this live: I am 
so proud of the kind of human beings and American citizens that 
you have become. I want to thank my three sisters, uncle and 
aunt, mother-in-law, and other extended family who have 
supported me throughout my life to include sending all of those 
great care packages to me and my soldiers when we were deployed 
to Iraq. I also want to acknowledge three people who are no 
longer with us here today: my father, John Tien, Sr.; my 
stepfather, Thomas Hennessy; and my mother, Deborah Hennessy, 
who recently died of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19). I 
know they would have all been proud of me, especially my 
mother, that I may get another chance to serve this great 
Nation.
    As for my birth father, John Tien, Sr., he, along with my 
grandparents and his two brothers and sister, escaped the 
likely persecution of Communist China after World War II. As a 
young college student, my father was so proud to become a 
naturalized U.S. citizen in the late 1950s. When it was time 
for me to go to college, he asked me to consider giving back to 
the country that welcomed our family decades earlier. He asked 
me to go to West Point. Admittedly, I first went to West Point 
out of a family obligation. However, by the time I graduated, I 
realized what a privilege it was to be able to call myself a 
West Point graduate and officer in the United States Army.
    The mission of DHS is to secure the Nation from the many 
threats we face. The threats that our Nation face today are 
evolving and originate both here in the homeland and abroad. 
The Department must not just be vigilant; it must be ready. If 
confirmed as the Deputy Secretary, one of my roles is to be the 
Department's Chief Operating Officer (COO). In this role, I 
will help ensure the Department is ready and that it executes 
its missions responsibly both in terms of wisely using the 
resources given to us and doing so through the enforcement of 
our Nation's laws.
    Just as the threats to the Nation are evolving, the 
Department will need to be flexible, will need to evolve its 
capabilities, and will need to work with our partners at the 
Federal, State, local, tribal, and territorial (SLTT) levels. 
We will also need to work with partners abroad and with the 
private sector, where I have spent the last 10 years of my 
professional life. In short, we need partners.
    As the Department evolves and executes its mission over the 
coming years and if I am confirmed, I look forward to 
partnering with all of you on this Committee and our other 
congressional partners. It would be an honor to join you in the 
service of the Nation.
    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Colonel Tien, for your opening 
remarks.
    Mr. Silvers, you are recognized for your opening remarks.

    TESTIMONY OF ROBERT P. SILVERS,\1\ NOMINEE TO BE UNDER 
 SECRETARY FOR STRATEGY, POLICY, AND PLANS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF 
                       HOMELAND SECURITY

    Mr. Silvers. Thank you, Chairman Peters, Ranking Member 
Portman, and distinguished Members of the Committee. I am 
honored to appear before you as the nominee for Under Secretary 
for Strategy, Policy, and Plans.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Silvers appear in the Appendix on 
page 138.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I thank the President for nominating me, Secretary Mayorkas 
for his confidence in me, and Senator Carper for his 
introduction and for his longstanding support for the 
Department of Homeland Security.
    I want to recognize my family: my wonderful wife, Alison, 
and our beautiful children, Ricky and Heidi. They have made 
possible my career in public service. That service to our 
country is not just my own, but theirs as well. Thank you. I am 
also grateful to my parents and my brother, who over the 
decades have offered endless support.
    DHS safeguards our Nation. Its varied components are a 
source of strength because they allow DHS to harness its many 
capabilities to tackle challenges. To do this, the Department 
needs a centralized hub to ensure it has policies and 
strategies in place to accomplish the mission. The Office of 
Strategy, Policy, and Plans is that hub--the nerve center for 
policy development and for advising on the best options.
    Recent incidents, from SolarWinds to Colonial Pipeline, 
have only further highlighted the urgency to secure critical 
infrastructure and Federal networks from cyberattacks. If 
confirmed, I will focus closely on fortifying DHS' efforts on 
this critical work. The President's recent cybersecurity 
Executive Order (EO) and new authorities enacted by Congress in 
recent years set a powerful foundation on which to build.
    DHS also must protect the American people from terrorism. 
DHS must remain ever vigilant to attacks directed from abroad, 
and it also must address the alarming rise in domestic violent 
extremism. If confirmed, I will prioritize ensuring that DHS is 
doing everything in its means to address the challenge, 
including by equipping our communities and law enforcement 
around the country with tools and information to keep our 
country safe.
    The Department must secure our borders. It must be 
relentless in disrupting the human-and drug-trafficking 
organizations that inflict so much devastation. It must 
administer our immigration system securely and humanely. DHS 
must continue its support for the COVID-19 pandemic response, 
and it must facilitate the lawful flows of trade and travel 
that power this economy.
    DHS also must look forward to emerging threats. This 
includes threats arising from the adoption of advanced 
technologies and threats to economic security and our ability 
to compete with China in the century ahead.
    If confirmed, I will be tireless and I will work closely 
with Congress on a bipartisan basis to achieve success.
    I last served at DHS as the Assistant Secretary for Cyber 
Policy. I led Department cybersecurity policy for incident 
response and critical infrastructure protection, amongst other 
things. In that position, I saw the incredible talent of the 
men and women of the Office of Strategy, Policy, and Plans.
    I also previously served as the Department's Deputy Chief 
of Staff. I oversaw policy and operations across the entire DHS 
mission set and workforce, and that workforce performs 
essential and heroic service every single day. I would be 
privileged to join and support them once again as Under 
Secretary.
    Thank you to the Committee for considering my nomination. I 
look forward to your questions this morning.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you for your opening comments, Mr. 
Silvers.
    Mr. Meyer, you are recognized for your opening comments.

   TESTIMONY OF JONATHAN E. MEYER,\1\ NOMINEE TO BE GENERAL 
         COUNSEL, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

    Mr. Meyer. Good morning, Chairman Peters, Ranking Member 
Portman, and distinguished Members of the Committee.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Meyer appear in the Appendix on 
page 224.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am honored to appear before you today as President 
Biden's nominee to serve as General Counsel of the Department 
of Homeland Security. I am grateful to the President and to 
Secretary Mayorkas for the trust they have placed in me and to 
you for your consideration of my nomination. I would also like 
to thank Senator Brown for his kind introduction. As a son of 
Cincinnati, Ohio, I am deeply honored to have my home-State 
Senator introduce me and to have my hometown Senator serve as 
Ranking Member of this hearing.
    I am also grateful to my family and friends for their 
support through this process. In particular, I would like to 
recognize my wife, Dr. Lauren Strauss, who is here with me 
today and without her love and support I would not be here. Our 
son, Ezra Meyer, and our younger daughter, Naomi, are here in 
Washington watching online hoping their Dad does not embarrass 
them. Also in my mind and heart is our oldest child, Corporal 
Jordana Meyer, who is currently serving in the Israel Defense 
Forces (IDF), and--her military schedule permitting--is 
watching this hearing online.
    I also wish to acknowledge the love and support of my 
parents, Rabbi Margie Meyer and Professor Michael Meyer, as 
well as my brother, Danny, and sister Rebecca. We are a close 
family, and I value their love and support above all else.
    I am also deeply grateful for the support and friendship of 
four former General Counsels of the DHS--two Democrats and two 
Republicans--who have endorsed my nomination. It would be the 
highest honor of my professional life to be confirmed as 
General Counsel of DHS, to return to the office where I worked 
previously and to lead the 2,500 attorneys who serve there. 
They are committed public servants and talented lawyers.
    I have devoted most of my 29-year legal career to public 
service. I spent 7 years on Capitol Hill, serving in both 
chambers and on both sides of the aisle. I served in the 
Departments of Justice and Homeland Security, in both career 
and political positions. I have practiced law at three major 
law firms, including my current professional home, Sheppard 
Mullin Richter & Hampton. I am deeply grateful to my Sheppard 
colleagues for their support. I believe all of these 
experiences have prepared me for the position to which I have 
been nominated.
    The Office of the General Counsel (OGC) plays a vital role 
in the proper functioning of DHS. With the able assistance of 
OGC attorneys, the General Counsel serves as the chief legal 
officer of the Department and the senior legal adviser to the 
Secretary and other officials. The General Counsel oversees 
litigation, regulations, and responses to internal and external 
oversight, including, of course, oversight by Congress. If 
confirmed, you have my word that I will give issues of 
congressional the highest priority and, as I have in the past, 
will do everything in my power to improve DHS' responsiveness.
    If confirmed, I intend to reinvigorate, unify, and empower 
the attorneys of OGC. Too often too little heed is paid to the 
experienced and insightful wisdom of the rank and file of OGC. 
I have served with these men and women. I know them. I know the 
immense value and incisive legal acumen that they bring to bear 
on behalf of the American people. In my view, the successful 
General Counsel is the one who appreciates these attributes and 
marshals them in service of our country.
    Exactly 90 years ago, in 1931, my grandfather, Karl 
Mattaeus Meyer, of blessed memory, was admitted to the bar and 
went to work for his government. A mere 2 years later, however, 
that career ended suddenly, when he was fired by that 
government for being a Jew. Although he and his family--
including my father--escaped Nazi Germany and built wonderful 
new lives here, my grandfather, for whom my son, Ezra, is 
named, was never able to practice law again.
    I have always viewed my legal career as a continuation of 
the one my grandfather began, but was forced to abandon. In 
every legal office I have occupied, the first items to go up on 
the wall, and the last to be taken down, are two old documents 
framed side by side: his hiring and his firing by the Nazis. 
They serve as a reminder to me of the critical role that 
lawyers must play in preserving democracy and protecting our 
rights. If I am confirmed, you have my solemn promise that I 
will always remain true to those values.
    Thank you. I welcome your questions.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Mr. Meyer, for your opening 
statement.
    There are three questions that the Committee asks of every 
nominee. I am going to ask each of you to respond briefly with 
just a yes or no.
    First, is there anything you are aware of in your 
background that might present a conflict of interest with the 
duties of the office to which you have been nominated? We will 
start with Colonel Tien and work that way for each of these 
questions.
    Mr. Tien. No.
    Mr. Silvers. No.
    Mr. Meyer. No, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Peters. Second, do you know of anything, personal 
or otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and 
honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to 
which you have been nominated?
    Mr. Tien. No, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Silvers. No, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Meyer. No, sir.
    Chairman Peters. Last, do you agree without reservation to 
comply with any request or summons to appear and testify before 
any duly constituted committee of Congress if you are 
confirmed?
    Mr. Tien. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Silvers. Yes.
    Mr. Meyer. Yes, sir.
    Chairman Peters. Very well. Colonel Tien, the Department of 
Homeland Security unfortunately has struggled with very low 
employee morale since its creation, and certainly a priority, I 
think, for every single Member of this Committee is to ensure 
that the career workforce at the DHS has the support that they 
need to keep our country safe and are expecting that type of 
leadership within the organization.
    Can you briefly describe how you plan to engage and empower 
the DHS workforce if you are confirmed.
    Mr. Tien. Chairman Peters, thank you very much for that 
question. If confirmed as the Deputy Secretary of the 
Department of Homeland Security, one of my roles will be to be 
the chief operating officer, as I mentioned in my introduction. 
One of my other roles, though, is to be the second in charge 
(2IC)--that is what we call it in the United States Army--the 
``second in charge''--the second in charge to Secretary 
Mayorkas, which means that I would have wingtip-to-wingtip and 
end-to-end leadership and management responsibilities across 
the Department in support of Secretary Mayorkas.
    Part of any leader's responsibility is to ensure that they 
are enabled, they are empowered, and they are supported to 
execute their mission. To me, that is where the genesis of all 
things that push and reinforce and help people establish what 
they view as their worth, as their contribution to the mission 
comes from, and to where the genesis of possibly their morale 
comes from.
    I would view my responsibility as first ensuring they 
understand I appreciate them and the role they have in the 
Department; and, second, I would look and say, ``Am I doing 
everything that I can as the Deputy Secretary, as the chief 
operating officer, and as the 2IC to enable, empower, and 
support them?''
    Thank you, sir.
    Chairman Peters. I am very glad to see the Biden 
administration is prioritizing the serious threat of domestic 
terrorism and violent extremism. However, I think it is 
absolutely crucial that Americans' civil rights and civil 
liberties are protected at the same time that we are dealing 
with this complex and evolving threat.
    So my question is for you, Mr. Meyer. If confirmed as 
General Counsel, you would be responsible for facilitating 
oversight of various components of DHS, including the Office of 
Civil Rights and Civil Liberties (CRCL) as the Department 
executes its civil intelligence operations. Tell me how you 
would ensure that the Office of Civil Rights and Civil 
Liberties is able to properly conduct oversight over the 
Department's civil intelligence operations.
    Mr. Meyer. I think that is a really important issue, Mr. 
Chairman. Thank you for raising it. As you know, when the 
Department of Homeland Security was created, in large part by 
this Committee, it made a point in the legislation creating the 
Department to create strong internal oversight bodies, 
including in particular the Civil Rights and Civil Liberties 
Office, and the Privacy Office. It is vitally important that 
they be involved in all major decisions and, in particular, as 
you mentioned, in intelligence review.
    In response to your question more directly, I think it is 
important and it is a role that the General Counsel in 
particular can play to make sure that CRCL is always at the 
table when it should be there. In the past, I believe there has 
been a tendency at times, not intentional, but to think of OGC 
as being a proxy for CRCL when, in fact, there is an office 
devoted to that and an officer--a Presidentially appointed 
officer, I believe--devoted to that. So it is the General 
Counsel's role to make sure that CRCL is at the table and is 
listened to and is giving input as part of my process reviewing 
intelligence issues or other issues.
    Chairman Peters. This week, it was announced that the TSA 
would for the first time move away from only voluntary 
cybersecurity guidelines and actually issue a security 
directive to the pipeline industry requiring pipeline companies 
to report cyber incidents to Cybersecurity and Infrastructure 
Security Agency (CISA) and TSA. It is being reported that in 
the future additional mandatory cybersecurity standards may be 
required for pipeline operators.
    With that in mind, Mr. Silvers, this question is for you. 
Understanding that you had no role in that decision, but if 
confirmed, what role would your office play in making decisions 
to utilize Department authorities to issue cybersecurity 
regulations?
    Mr. Silvers. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for the 
question. We all saw with the attack on Colonial Pipeline the 
devastating and cascading effects that a cyber attack even just 
on a single organization can have and the impacts that can be 
felt downstream by many innocent parties, and it is just 
vitally important that the Department of Homeland Security and 
other Federal agencies as well use all tools available and 
appropriate to mitigate those kinds of threats.
    I saw the announcement of the recent security directive, 
and in terms of what the Office of Strategy, Policy, and Plans 
might have in that kind of decision in the future, I think it 
is actually a very powerful illustration of how multiple 
components within DHS bring capabilities and authorities to 
bear to address these challenges and the need for a central hub 
to bring together those capabilities and develop policies. TSA 
has the jurisdiction, the authorities to regulate pipelines. 
The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, has deep 
expertise in critical infrastructure cybersecurity more 
generally. The recent directive marries those two by leveraged 
TSA's authorities with CISA's expertise in a way that I think 
is extremely promising.
    Chairman Peters. It is very clear that CISA is the lead 
Federal cybersecurity agency with respect to Federal systems 
and supporting critical infrastructure. But as you alluded to 
in that answer, there are other components other places where 
those cyber responsibilities reside as well. Coordinating that 
is critically important. Give the Committee a better sense of 
how you see your role in coordinating our cyber activities in 
an effective way.
    Mr. Silvers. Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. Cybersecurity is an 
important priority for multiple agencies and offices at DHS. We 
talked about CISA and TSA. The Secret Service and Homeland 
Security Investigations (HSI) specialize in criminal 
investigations of cyber crime. The U.S. Coast Guard (USCG) 
protects the maritime transportation environment from 
cybersecurity, and the list goes on. I think the Office of 
Strategy, Policy, and Plans is the organization within the 
Department that brings all that together to develop the best 
approaches, the best options, present those to the Secretary 
and the Deputy Secretary, also work with Congress on a 
bipartisan basis and other agencies.
    Chairman Peters. Senator Portman, you are recognized for 
your questions.
    Senator Portman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, I thank 
the witnesses for their testimony today and their willingness 
to step up and serve again in each case.
    This Committee is the chief oversight Committee for the 
Congress, and in our Constitution the Legislative Branch has a 
fundamental responsibility to provide oversight. Probably the 
primary purpose of this Committee is oversight over the 
Executive Branch. To do that well, we have to have the agencies 
provide us information we need to do effective oversight.
    Mr. Meyer, during our phone call yesterday, we talked a lot 
about that. We discussed my concern that in your prior role at 
DHS, you made congressional oversight of DHS difficult. The 
former of the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (PSI), 
whom many of you knew, Senator Carl Levin, complained about 
that. He said specifically in his report that, ``DHS initially 
withheld documents and repeatedly resisted the Committee 
requests, which unnecessarily prolonged the Committee 
investigation.'' Those are pretty strong words. I have never 
seen that in any other PSI report that I did as Chairman of 
that Committee or others have done. I ask unanimous consent 
(UC) to enter those relevant pages of the report into the 
record,\1\ Mr. Chairman.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\The PSI report excerpt appears in the Appendix on page 287.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    So the question is: How can Senator Peters and me and 
Senator Ossoff and Senator Johnson be assured that we will not 
get that kind of treatment should you be confirmed in this new 
important role at DHS as General Counsel?
    Mr. Meyer. Thank you, Senator, for giving me an opportunity 
to respond to that. I enjoyed our conversation yesterday, and I 
appreciate the opportunity to address this publicly.
    First of all, I would like to respectfully disagree with 
one of your comments, which is that what I did when I was at 
DHS in the past was make oversight more difficult. You are 
referring to----
    Senator Portman. I was quoting Senator Levin on that, a 
Democrat from Michigan who was Chair of PSI at the time.
    Mr. Meyer. I do not recall Senator Levin ever saying 
anything specifically about me. But if I may, as I recall, the 
investigation you are speaking about and the report you are 
speaking about occurred in 2011, 2012. I arrived in 2011. That 
was the very beginning of my time at DHS. I would absolutely 
agree with you that that particular investigation involving 
fusion centers was very difficult and was not the Department's 
best moment in responding to oversight.
    But I would like to point out that by the time I left DHS 
in 2016 and had been running oversight response for 5 years, we 
had improved our responsiveness by 120 percent. We had reduced 
our response time by 60 percent at the same time that the 
volume of incoming requests had doubled.
    There is no question that there was a process involved 
there. As I recall, I believe you mentioned yesterday that one 
of the issues that the Subcommittee had concerns with was the 
fact that DHS was unable to produce emails for technological 
reasons, but yet the National Archives and Records 
Administration (NARA) subsequently was able to do so. Honestly, 
my response to that unfortunately was not surprise. I do not 
recall it, but I am not surprised, because what I do recall is 
huge technological challenges that we had at DHS in oversight 
response, and that was a large part of what I addressed and, if 
I am confirmed, would focus on addressing again.
    I said in my opening statement that I would make 
congressional oversight my highest priority if I were 
confirmed. I am a big believer in congressional oversight. As 
you know, I have spent time both on the Hill and at DHS and in 
the Executive Branch. I actually spent more time conducting 
oversight in the Senate than I have at DHS. I, like you----
    Senator Portman. I appreciated that Committee in your 
testimony this morning, and I heard it. I will also enter into 
the record, because you mentioned it--I was not going to--the 
back-and-forth, the letters regarding the PSI request for 
emails for a specific DHS official. PSI was told--and, again, 
you were the one that had the lead on this--that those emails 
were not available, and later we found out that they were. I 
will enter that into the record\1\ since you mentioned it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\The letters referenced by Senator Portman appears in the 
Appendix on page 292.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Again, I appreciate your general commitment to being more 
responsive to Congress.
    Let me ask some specific questions. If confirmed, do you 
commit to responding in a timely manner to requests from the 
Committee? Just yes or no.
    Mr. Meyer. Absolutely, sir.
    Senator Portman. If confirmed, do you commit to providing 
all documents requested by this Committee without redacting 
unless it is agreed to beforehand? Yes or no.
    Mr. Meyer. I will make every effort to do so, Senator. 
Obviously, I, even as General Counsel, do not have control over 
that.
    Senator Portman. You would have the most control over it, 
as I understand it. What would you redact? What would you feel 
you had the right to redact unless, again, you had worked 
something out with us in advance? I think there are situations 
like that.
    Mr. Meyer. I believe the Executive Branch traditionally 
will redact information, for example, that is subject to 
Executive privilege.
    Senator Portman. Just so you know, this Committee does not 
recognize any assertions of that sort, or national security, 
because, we are the oversight Committee, unless, again, we have 
the opportunity to discuss that in advance.
    Mr. Meyer. Senator, let me be clear. I would absolutely 
discuss it in advance. The Constitution requires us and the 
courts have made it clear that the oversight process must be an 
accommodation process. I am sorry if I misunderstood or 
misspoke. I would welcome every opportunity to communicate with 
you, with your staff, and anybody else on the Hill about these 
issues. Oversight is about communication and accommodation.
    Senator Portman. If confirmed, do you agree to provide any 
fact witnesses requested by this Committee to be interviewed?
    Mr. Meyer. Yes, sir.
    Senator Portman. How about the Inspector General (IGs) 
office? DHS Office of Inspector General also has concerns, as 
you know, sometimes about not being able to get information. 
Would you provide witnesses or documents requested by the IG?
    Mr. Meyer. Absolutely. I think OIG oversight is quite 
important.
    Senator Portman. Thank you, Mr. Meyer. I appreciate that.
    Mr. Tien, your distinguished military service is 
extraordinary, and the leadership you demonstrated in uniform 
has been talked about today. Could you also talk about how your 
private sector background qualifies you to be the next Deputy 
Secretary, in particular how you think the private sector could 
be brought in as a partner more effectively?
    Mr. Tien. Ranking Member Portman, thank you very much for 
that question, and I appreciate your acknowledgment of my 
military service. By acknowledging my military service, you are 
really acknowledging the military service of all the great 
Americans who have come before me or who are currently serving, 
so thank you, sir.
    In terms of my private sector experience, there are many 
different ways that the Department of Homeland Security is 
already, can, and should be partnering with the private sector. 
In particular, I think about the most recent--and this is just 
an example, obviously, of the most recent example around the 
cyber attack on the Colonial Pipeline. The Colonial Pipeline 
organization did not have to acknowledge or report to CISA that 
they had undergone a ransomware attack.
    Now, I understand just being a private citizen today that 
President Biden says in the future we will require that. It is 
this kind of partnership that I believe that the private sector 
must have with the public sector, must have with the Federal 
Government, in particular DHS, obviously, and reverse, for the 
public sector, for the Federal Government, and for CISA in 
particular at DHS to have--it is a two-way street in terms of 
that communication.
    The private sector serves--we know this. They have 
constituents, too. They are called ``customers.'' They are 
called ``clients.'' At least in the United States of America, 
those clients, those constituents, and those customers are the 
same constituents for us.
    In the service of the American people, in particular in the 
protection of all of the critical infrastructure, not just the 
pipeline but all of the 16 critical infrastructure sectors, I 
believe that the private sector can and should and the public 
sector can and should be strong partners.
    Senator Portman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Ranking Member Portman.
    We are in the middle of a vote series now in the Capitol, 
so I am going to be leaving to go vote. I am going to pass the 
gavel to Senator Carper, and, Senator Carper, you are also 
recognized for your questions.
    Senator Carper [presiding]. You know I may not want to give 
it back. [Laughter.]
    Just kidding. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    I want to say again, Senator Lankford, I do not know if you 
were here in time to hear all the opening statements, but, oh, 
my God, I just sit here thinking of all the witnesses we have 
had, all the nominees we have had over the years, what a 
distinguished group we have before us today. Again, our thanks 
to all of you for your willingness to serve.
    I am going to start with a question, for Mr. Silvers, who 
is nominated for the position of Under Secretary for Strategy, 
Policy, and Plans. Over the years, a number of our colleagues 
and I have worked to give the Department of Homeland Security 
the resources that are necessary to carry out its various 
missions, and that certainly includes the cyber mission, which 
we have alluded to already today. I was especially proud of the 
bipartisanship that was shown in Congress when we passed the 
Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Act of 2018, a couple 
of years ago.
    The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, was 
created after your time at the Department, Mr. Silvers, when 
you had last served I think as the Assistant Secretary for 
Cyber Policy at the Department.
    As such, if confirmed in your new role as Under Secretary 
for Strategy, Policy, and Plans, how do you plan to work with 
the Director of CISA to improve our Nation's cybersecurity and 
cyber posture? What are some of the top cybersecurity policies 
and initiatives you would look to implement at DHS?
    Mr. Silvers. Senator Carper, thank you very much for the 
question. CISA is indeed the quarterback for the Federal 
Government's protection of both critical infrastructure and 
Federal civilian agency networks from cyber threats. It is the 
national cyber defense center. If I am confirmed, I would look 
very much forward to working closely with, if she is 
confirmed--and I hope she will be--Jen Easterly at CISA, as 
well as others in the Department who have oversight over 
cybersecurity at the Secret Service, Homeland Security 
Investigations, the TSA, and otherwise.
    I think there is a lot of work to do. Initial priorities, 
Senator, I believe certainly include enhancing the Department's 
work to elevate the cybersecurity of Federal civilian agencies. 
SolarWinds was just a devastating example of vulnerability to 
very sophisticated threat actors and the types of catastrophic 
consequences that can result. I think the new Executive Order 
from the President will strongly bolster the ability to do that 
critical work, and I would expect to work closely with CISA on 
those issues, including to increase visibility across Federal 
agency networks for CISA, to implement a regime of mandatory 
deployment of technologies like endpoint and detection response 
and the like.
    I also think protection of critical infrastructure in the 
private sector--85 percent of critical infrastructure in this 
country is privately owned--that has to be an enormous 
priority, and Colonial Pipeline is just the latest example of 
how important that mission is. I would look to partner closely 
with CISA and also with the private sector on those critical 
efforts, amongst other priorities.
    Senator Carper. Thank you.
    A second question. This would be a question for Colonel 
Tien. The over 240,000 folks who serve at the Department of 
Homeland Security around the world have taken on the critical 
mission of protecting our homeland day in and day out, as you 
know. Whether they work to secure our borders, our Ports of 
Entry (POE), respond to emergencies, respond to natural 
disasters or secure our critical infrastructure, the work that 
they do every day is vital. They have my thanks; they have our 
thanks for all that they do.
    If confirmed, Colonel Tien, you will be responsible for the 
day-to-day business and management of operations as well as the 
workforce at DHS. How has your experience in the military 
shaped your leadership style and prepared you for this new role 
at the Department, if confirmed?
    Mr. Tien. Senator Carper, thank you very much for that 
question. If I may, veteran to veteran, you certainly know and 
you certainly remember when I enjoyed our conversation around 
your time in the Navy, my time in the Army, and I would not say 
everything I know and learned about leadership I learned in my 
first few years in the United States Army, but I learned a lot 
of it when I was a first lieutenant tank platoon leader M1A1 
Abrams tank in Germany, leading troops in support and ready to 
defend in terms of the Cold War. Everything I learned about 
leadership, most of it, I learned as a tank platoon leader in 
Germany. The reason I say that is that the 240,000 amazing 
Americans who have stepped up, taken the same oath of office 
that you have and that I did, to support and defend the 
Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign 
and domestic, is so inspiring to me. As I think about what we 
need to do for them and what we owe to them both in terms of 
the management, in terms of the leadership, it inspires me 
again.
    If I get the opportunity, if I am confirmed, sir, to become 
the Deputy Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, my 
main commitment will be to serve them, to lead them, to manage 
them, to enable them, to empower them, and to support them in 
the same way that I certainly aspired to do as a tank platoon 
leader in Germany when I was in the United States Army. Thank 
you, sir.
    Senator Carper. In addition to what you learned about 
leadership--and I appreciate what you said about what you 
learned in that capacity--just mention a thing or two you 
learned from your parents that would help make you a better 
leader. I am going to ask this same question of our other 
nominees.
    Mr. Tien. Quickly, sir--and I say ``quickly'' because it 
will be an emotional moment for me--I have already talked about 
my birth father and the example that he set by literally saying 
we have a commitment to the United States of America for taking 
our family in so many decades ago.
    From my mother, who, again, recently died of COVID-19, she 
was the daughter of two Chinese immigrants who also escaped 
persecution from Communist China. She was born in New York 
City, and then, unfortunately, she was orphaned at the age of 
2. If it were not for some amazing nuns in Virginia, not too 
far from here, and the foster care system, I probably would not 
be sitting here today. She probably would not have made it to 
the age of 80 before she died of COVID-19.
    What I learned from my mom--and, really, she taught me a 
lot about servant leadership because what she did was she 
poured all of her love that she really did not get from her 
birth parents into my sister, Jacqueline Tien Levin, and I. I 
learned how to be a great servant leader from my mother.
    Senator Carper. That is great.
    Very briefly, Mr. Silvers, same question. What did you 
learn from your parents with respect to leadership?
    Mr. Silvers. Senator Carper, my parents, David and Patty, 
taught me to work very hard, that you get what you earn, and to 
try to be active in your community to make the world a better 
place.
    Senator Carper. Thank you.
    Mr. Meyer.
    Mr. Meyer. With regard to my parents, let me say that from 
my father I learned integrity. I have never known a person with 
more integrity than my father. We often even joke that we do 
not believe he has ever willingly jaywalked. But, more 
seriously----
    Senator Carper. I never trusted guys like that. [Laughter.]
    Mr. Meyer. Whenever I am faced with a significant ethical 
or moral dilemma, I think about my father. He is also a model 
of modesty. He is a very accomplished, world-renowned 
historian. You would never know it by meeting him.
    My mother is a model of resilience and a model for how to 
treat people. She is a wonderful person who has sympathy and 
empathy for everyone she meets, and she is a person, as I 
mentioned in passing in my opening statement, she is a rabbi. 
When she graduated from college, she could not become one 
because women could not be rabbis. She went back in her mid-
forties and became one. That is no easy task. So I have a huge 
amount of admiration for her.
    Senator Carper. It sounds like your mother adheres to the 
Golden Rule: Treat other people the way we would want to be 
treated. Or they say in the Jewish faith, I think, do not do 
unto others that you would not have done to you.
    Mr. Meyer. Absolutely, sir.
    Senator Carper. All right. A fellow who knows a thing or 
two about the Golden Rule is our next Senator who is now 
recognized, James Lankford from the great State of Oklahoma.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD

    Senator Lankford. Senator Carper, thank you very much. To 
the witnesses, thanks for going through this process. It is not 
a fun process, to say the least, but thanks for being willing 
to be able to step up and to be able to serve.
    Mr. Silvers, you and I had a great conversation. Thanks for 
the time to be able to just pick your brain on some of these 
things. I wanted to be able to follow up. During the time when 
you had served in DHS during the Obama Administration, 
President Obama wrote a letter that came from DHS basically 
asking for a review of the Victims of Trafficking and Violence 
Protection Act (TVPRA) and said this needs to be fixed. This 
was during that surge that was happening in 2014 and 2015. This 
letter came in 2014. I do not know if you had a part in writing 
that. Obviously, you were in the middle as In the role there as 
Deputy Chief of Staff at DHS. Do you agree that TVPRA needs to 
be addressed? President Obama was at that spot during 2014. You 
may have been a part of, as I said, writing that letter. Do you 
think there is a need for readdressing that policy?
    Mr. Silvers. Senator, thank you, and I enjoyed our 
conversation as well. Senator, I am not familiar with that 
letter. I do know that TVPRA generally plays an important role 
in setting up the framework for the treatment of unaccompanied 
alien children amongst others who come to our border and that 
that statute more broadly is meant to serve the very important 
objective of protecting victims of human trafficking. I am not 
familiar with----
    Senator Lankford. Is it working as it was designed to at 
this point? And does it help us? Obviously, we have yet another 
crisis at the border at this point, and part of the challenge 
is this is not mostly from Mexico. This is from other than 
Mexico. Does TVPRA play a role in this?
    Mr. Silvers. Senator, that is something that I would want 
to look into with my team if I am confirmed. I need to 
understand the issues better and the current operations, if 
confirmed.
    Senator Lankford. OK. Fair enough.
    Mr. Silvers. I promise to look into it.
    Senator Lankford. Mr. Meyer, there is a lot of conversation 
about temporary protected status. Just a few days ago now, the 
Biden administration extended temporary protected status to 
Haitians that are in the country, but did not just extend it to 
those who had already had it before, actually increased it from 
2017 to the present and just looped everyone into it. That is a 
pretty broad definition of temporary protected status and 
expansion of this.
    Are there any limits or boundaries to temporary protected 
status?
    Mr. Meyer. Senator, thank you for the question. I have not 
studied the legalities of temporary protected status, at least 
not recently, but I can say this: The word ``temporary'' is in 
the name. The law dictates presumably that it be temporary. If 
I were confirmed, I would absolutely be happy to look at the 
law regarding temporary protected status and get back to you 
and would be happy to work with you on it if----
    Senator Lankford. You do not know at this point of any 
boundaries of who could be included in that and the time 
period? You have not tracked that? Because, obviously, that is 
a very big issue at this point affecting a lot of people.
    Mr. Meyer. Correct, Senator. I have not had the opportunity 
to track that over the past 4\1/2\ years when I have been in 
private practice and away from DHS, but I would be happy to do 
so if I were confirmed.
    Senator Lankford. One of the questions to be able to follow 
up what Senator Portman was talking about as well, talking 
about the oversight time period, and in previous roles how 
difficult it was to be able to get information. There was a 
House oversight hearing in 2016. This is not about getting 
information. I just want to get your understanding of this. You 
made the statement that, ``Congress is entitled to oversight 
under the Constitution and under various laws. It is entitled 
to look into any matter that is a legitimate oversight that 
serves a legislative interest.''
    Help me understand the term ``is a legitimate oversight 
that serves a legislative interest''? And does the 
administration define that, or does Congress define that?
    Mr. Meyer. Thanks for that question, Senator. I believe 
when I said that, I was not stating an opinion. I was doing my 
best to summarize the law as it has been stated by the courts 
on this. I think the answer to your question is ultimately it 
is the courts who decide that. But that is why it is important 
also what the Constitution and the courts have told us, that 
the Legislative and the Executive Branches need to engage in a 
process of accommodation. If I were confirmed as General 
Counsel, I would absolutely do all in my power to accommodate 
Congress in its oversight requests, because it is our job, 
wherever possible, to provide that information to Congress. It 
is dictated by our constitutional framework. It has been 
dictated by the courts. I as General Counsel would have it as 
my duty to follow the law.
    Senator Lankford. So your default is the legislature has 
the understanding of what is a legislative interest; otherwise, 
they would not ask. But a court could step in and protect the 
Executive Branch. Is that where you are on this?
    Mr. Meyer. Yes, my default is the Congress determines what 
is a legislative interest, absolutely.
    Senator Lankford. OK. That is helpful.
    Mr. Silvers, we did not get a chance to be able to talk 
about this today, and we had a long conversation, but there was 
an Inspector General investigation that happened on Mr. 
Mayorkas dealing with EB-5 applications. There was one that was 
two Democratic donors and a Huawei executive. It was while you 
were there. There seems to be some email threads relating to 
that where you were looped into some of those conversations and 
then at one point asked, ``Get me out of this conversation 
unless there is a national security issue here. Take me out of 
this thread,'' dealing with that particular issue.
    Were you part of the interview process with the Inspector 
General when the investigation was going on with Mr. Mayorkas 
and what was happening with these EB-5 folks and the Huawei 
executive trying to be able to get access?
    Mr. Silvers. Senator, thank you for the question. I was 
interviewed by the Inspector General as part of the 
investigation, as I understand it, as were mo people involved 
in the EB-5 program. I cooperated fully, and the Inspector 
General never followed up with me with any concerns with 
respect to my conduct.
    Senator Lankford. OK. Anything that you have learned 
through that process that would be different for the future?
    Mr. Silvers. Senator, I think that Secretary Mayorkas, 
after that report came out, acknowledged that the actions that 
he had taken had created a perception among some in U.S. 
Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) that there were 
improprieties, and he took responsibility for that, and he took 
way lessons. From that episode, I took away lessons, too. I 
learned that when you are in leadership in a large 
organization, you have a large team, and they may perceive 
things, and it is important to set the right tone with your 
team and important to manage not just reality but perceptions 
as well. And I did learn--that is the take-away for me.
    Senator Lankford. In this particular case, it was a Chinese 
executive that was trying to get access to the EB-5 process, 
that there were notifications to your office and other offices 
that this person looks like and this company looks like they 
are connected to Chinese intelligence, and they are trying to 
do this in multiple locations. There were some warnings that 
were coming to you as well. It was Hillary Rodham Clinton's 
brother, Terry McAuliffe, who is former Governor of Virginia, 
and this Huawei executive all working together in the process. 
I think there is a reason that that would have the appearance 
of some improprieties in the process, so I do not think it was 
just it had some bad look to it. It does not smell right to 
anybody in the process. I think it is one of the challenges of 
leadership to be able to make sure--if it does not smell right, 
it is probably not right.
    Mr. Silvers. Senator, thank you. Respectfully, for most or 
nearly all, I believe, of the timeline of that case that was 
the subject of the IG report, I think I was not yet at the 
Department of Homeland Security. I am confident that if there 
were ever raised a concern about national security, Chinese 
counterintelligence threats, that the only line I would have 
taken would have been those need to be run to ground and 
decided by national security experts.
    I take the threat from China incredibly seriously. I think 
it is a generational challenge to the national interests of 
this country, and I think everything I have done in government 
service is consistent with that. Everything I would do again in 
government service, if confirmed, will be consistent with that.
    Senator Lankford. OK. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Peters [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Lankford.
    Senator Scott, you are recognized for your questions.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SCOTT

    Senator Scott. Thank you, Chairman Peters. Thank you for 
holding this hearing. I thank each of you for your willingness 
to serve, and you guys, each of you, have backgrounds that 
reflect that you have the ability to do these jobs well. So 
thank you for your willingness to serve. I do not think it is 
easy at a time where everything seems to be pretty partisan up 
here to serve, so I wish you the best of luck.
    It has been important to me that I have gone to the border. 
I think a lot of us have gone to the border. I think it is 
important that the President goes to the border. I do not 
understand why the President has not gone to the border and 
talked to Border Patrol and gotten information on the ground 
why we have the surge that we have now.
    It appears to me it is a crisis. I know the White House 
does not want to call it that, but it sure appears to be. I 
just want to let you all know I plan on holding new nominations 
not because of your qualifications, but until the President 
goes to the border, I am going to hold the nominations, 
hopefully with the goal that the President will go see what is 
going on at the border and hopefully take more action.
    I think the first question I have, the thing that surprised 
me since I have been up here is that it does not appear as much 
in the Federal Government people are committed to following the 
law. They can pick and choose what laws they want to enforce. 
First off, two things. One, are you committed to following the 
law? Whatever the law is, whether we like it or not, we have to 
follow the law, and also be as transparent as possible. All of 
us on both sides of the aisle, we want information to be able 
to do our jobs. If I could hear from each of you?
    Mr. Tien. Yes, sir, Senator Scott, this is John Tien. The 
answer to both your questions are yes, sir, absolutely, sir. 
Yes, sir, absolutely, sir.
    Mr. Silvers. Senator Scott, yes, of course, I commit to 
following the law if confirmed. With respect to congressional 
oversight, when I was in the front office of Jeh Johnson, the 
former Secretary, he said something once to me. He said, ``You 
know, Congress is like our board of directors. They are not at 
the office every day, but we report to them, and they can 
change our direction if they want to. We need to treat them 
with respect.'' And that stuck with me, and I commit to you, if 
confirmed, I will follow that approach.
    Senator Scott. Thanks.
    Mr. Meyer. I completely agree. I have never heard about 
that story, but I think that is a great analogy. I will 
obviously and it is, in particular, my duty as General Counsel 
to follow the law. I think to a great extent, the law requires 
transparency. But even to the extent it does not, I think 
transparency is very important.
    Senator Scott. Actually, I was Governor for 8 years. It is 
easier. If you give everybody everything, it is hard for people 
to complain, right?
    Mr. Meyer. I agree.
    Senator Scott. If you say, look, this is what the law is, 
if you do not like the law, then I would say, ``Go to the 
legislature. Change the law. I am not doing that.'' I do not 
think they changed what we enforced when I was Governor of 
Florida, so I do not believe in it.
    Mr. Tien, how comfortable do you feel that FEMA will be 
ready to deal with hurricane season? In my 8 years, we had four 
major hurricanes. FEMA was a great partner. They really did a 
good job. I think I told you the lady that runs the Southeast, 
Gracia Szczech, is outstanding. FEMA has been stretched. 
Homeland Security I think has been stretched with COVID, the 
border. How comfortable are you that FEMA can do their job if 
we have a hurricane this year?
    Mr. Tien. Sir, the first thing I--Senator Scott, thank you 
very much for that question. The first thing I would like to 
say is to take my hat off to salute the tens of thousands of 
employees who are in FEMA. I had the opportunity about a month 
ago to go down to Mercedes-Benz Stadium. I accompanied my 
daughter, who was getting her first and then eventually her 
second Pfizer shot at that mass vaccination site, and it was 
both impressive and so inspiring to see FEMA, the private 
sector, Mercedes-Benz Stadium and everybody who is involved in 
that, working together to support the United States of America 
and to help us recover from this global pandemic. So my hat is 
off to FEMA, and I agree, they have so many challenges, not 
just now but always.
    I am a private citizen, and as you know, I am not privy to 
everything that FEMA has going on. But given my short 
interactions with them, not just in terms of Mercedes-Benz 
Stadium but across some of my exposure to them during my 
preparatory briefs, I believe in FEMA. I believe in those 
employees. I believe in the newly confirmed Director of FEMA. 
If confirmed, I look forward to working more with you and your 
team, especially given your State, Florida, and your exposure 
to hurricanes certainly. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Scott. Yes, it was a real challenge. We had four of 
them. I learned a lot. I learned in every one of them. I am 
sure you will learn as you go through all these disasters.
    Can we talk a little bit about China and the slave labor? 
In your roles, is there anything that you can do to try to stop 
the amount of products that are produced in Communist China 
with slave labor coming into the United States?
    Mr. Tien. Senator Scott, when I think about what China's 
responsibility is in the world and what their responsibility is 
as a global leader in the world, right now--and, again, I say 
this as a private citizen--I am not privy to any intelligence. 
I am not privy to all of the different analyses, whether it is 
in Homeland Security or other places. But China understandably 
acts in their best national interest. When they act in their 
best national interest and it becomes a threat to the United 
States of America, I think it is the responsibility of anybody 
who has taken the oath of office, the same one that you took, 
the same one I took when I was in the United States Army to 
support and defend the Constitution of the United States of 
America against all enemies, foreign and domestic. We have a 
responsibility, if confirmed, to then deal with that, to 
include any use of slave labor as you have characterized it.
    Mr. Silvers. Senator, I would be happy to answer that 
question. I saw, I believe it was in 2020, that Customs and 
Border Protection imposed orders restricting the importation of 
tomatoes and cotton from Xinjiang Province that are generated 
with forced labor. I strongly support that kind of action. What 
is happening in Xinjiang Province is a crime against humanity, 
and I believe it is the moral obligation of the United States 
to take action and not to allow profit from that kind of 
abhorrent activity or conduct by the Chinese Government. I 
would work very closely with you and others, if confirmed, to 
take on that challenge and others coming from the Chinese 
Government threat streams, if confirmed.
    Senator Scott. Thanks.
    Mr. Meyer. And to add to what Mr. Silvers said, as he 
referenced, I think a key entity on this subject is Customs and 
Border Protection, because if those products are coming through 
and if they are illegal, CBP has the authority to seize them 
and to prevent them from coming in and thereby to harm the 
people who are making money off of this slave labor and forced 
labor. So that is absolutely a place where we can focus. And 
like Mr. Silvers, I would welcome the opportunity to work with 
you on it to the extent we want to try and strengthen those 
laws.
    Senator Scott. Thanks. Thanks for your willingness to 
serve.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Scott.
    Senator Hassan, you are just back from the votes. I will 
give you a moment here, but you will be recognized for your 
questions.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HASSAN

    Senator Hassan. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. I really 
appreciate this hearing, and I thank all of our nominees not 
only for being here this morning and for your testimony and 
statements, but for your past service and your willingness to 
serve again. I join the rest of my colleagues in thanking your 
families, too, because nobody does this by themselves.
    If you are confirmed, I also really look forward to working 
with all of you to keep our homeland safe, secure, and free.
    I want to start with a question to you, Colonel Tien. Thank 
you so much for your distinguished previous service and your 
willingness to serve again. The Deputy Secretary of the 
Department of Homeland Security frequently acts as chief 
operating officer for the Department, helping to ensure that 
the various operational and support offices all function 
cohesively. DHS must manage multi-million-dollar procurements 
and staff more than 250,000 positions throughout the world.
    The Deputy Secretary must also manage a wide array of 
mission areas and support functions and dive deep into key 
policy issues and operational requirements. Colonel, can you 
tell us about how your background in the military, with the 
National Security Council, and managing within a complex 
organization like Citigroup prepares you to serve in this 
position?
    Mr. Tien. Thank you very much, Senator Hassan. I appreciate 
the question. When I think back across my experiences in the 
Army, at the Executive Office of the President (EOP) when I was 
a White House fellow at the U.S. Trade Representative Office, 
two different tours, one with the Bush Administration, one with 
the Obama Administration, on the National Security Council, and 
then really my last 10 years, there is no specific template 
that I am going to bring if I am confirmed as the Deputy 
Secretary, a specific template that I would bring from the Army 
or a specific template I would bring from the NSC or a specific 
template from Citigroup.
    I think for any leader who has been nominated for a 
position like this, it is the responsibility and it is the 
obligation for that leader and for that manager to think about 
how to best synthesize those experiences.
    Where I would come to this particular role, if I was 
confirmed, in particular as the chief operating officer, I 
would think about really two things and then a third sort of 
tactical thing. But the two philosophical things are that I 
would be a servant leader, No. 1. I spoke about that a little 
bit earlier. Servant leaders empower, enable, and support and 
make sure that their organization and that everybody in those 
subordinate component organizations, the 250,000 that you 
mentioned, are enabled, empowered, and supported. The second 
would be a management style, right? You cannot just be a 
leader, especially in an organization as diverse as you 
described. You also have to be a manager. I think given the 
fact that I have not, like my fellow nominees here, I have not 
served in DHS prior. I have always been, I believe, I certainly 
have aspired to be an inclusive and collaborative manager, an 
inclusive and collaborative managers, because those 250,000 
employees that you reference, they are the ones who are on the 
ground, who are on the front lines, and who have the expert 
knowledge. I would want to make sure I was inclusive and 
collaborative with them.
    The third thing I will close with, it is more of a tactical 
approach, which is given how disparate and diverse the 
Department of Homeland Security is, spread across 22 different 
operational components, there is also opportunity. There is 
opportunity, and we can always improve. We can always evolve in 
terms of how the Department integrates with each other, 
communicates with each other, ensures interoperability, in 
order to create the most optimal result for the Department to 
accomplish the mission.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you for that. I will just add that 
also, in addition to internal stakeholders, you have external 
stakeholders, too. Part of the mission here is making sure you 
are collaborating and communicating well with them and 
empowering the internal stakeholders to do the same. I look 
forward to seeing you in that role.
    I want to turn to an issue with you, Mr. Silvers, that is a 
very specific one I am hearing a lot about from my constituents 
in New Hampshire right now. There are just a lot of frustration 
with the ongoing limitations on travel across the U.S.-Canadian 
border due to the COVID-19 pandemic. We have families and 
business folks with relationships that, before the pandemic, 
were going back and forth across the border all the time.
    As Under Secretary for Strategy, Policy, and Plans, you 
will play an important role in leading and coordinating 
international engagements at the Department of Homeland 
Security. If confirmed, Mr. Silvers, what steps would you take 
in order to safely lift the limitations on travel across the 
Northern Border?
    Mr. Silvers. Senator, thank you very much. That is an 
incredibly important question, and if I am confirmed, it will 
be amongst my highest early priorities to address the 
resumption of nonessential travel on our Northern Border and 
our Southern Border. The pandemic has upended the way of life 
in our border communities. People in those communities go to 
school, work, visit property, visit friends in the ordinary 
course, and they cannot do that right now.
    I believe that--obviously, we are in the middle of a public 
health crisis, and the science has to lead on these kinds of 
questions of when it is safe to resume. But I believe in the 
meantime it is essential that the U.S. Government and the 
Government of Canada be planning for reopening so that when the 
science allows for it, those restrictions can be relaxed as 
quickly as possible so that life can get as close to normal as 
possible quickly. I commit to you that, if I am confirmed, I 
will engage early with my government of Canada counterparts to 
address these issues.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you.
    Mr. Meyer, I want to follow up on a theme of questions you 
heard from Ranking Member Portman. The Office of General 
Counsel is tasked with facilitating timely responses to 
congressional requests for information from the Department of 
Homeland Security. The last administration frequently struggled 
to fulfill that obligation. If confirmed, Mr. Meyer, what steps 
would you take to facilitate and ensure timely and thorough 
answers from DHS to congressional inquiries?
    Mr. Meyer. Thanks for that question, Senator. Several 
initial steps. The first, of course, is to arrive, if I am 
confirmed, and to see what the current state of play is with 
regard to oversight response. I have not been there. I was not 
there in the prior administration; I have not been there in 
this administration. The first thing to do is an assessment.
    Second, what you need to do is simply to prioritize it. 
That involves not only sending a message throughout the 
Department that oversight response is a priority, but it also 
involves devoting resources, making sure you have the 
personnel, making sure you have the technology available to 
gather the documents and the information that you need and 
transmit it. Unfortunately, that has not always been a given at 
the Department of Homeland Security. We need to do that.
    And then, last, I think communication, to reach out to the 
Hill and say, OK, what do you need? What are you dissatisfied 
with? What can we do to improve our work? It is vitally 
important to do that.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you very much.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Hassan.
    The Chair recognizes Senator Ossoff for your questions.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR OSSOFF

    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our 
nominees. Congratulations on your nominations. Thanks for your 
willingness to serve.
    Mr. Tien, a fellow Georgian, the recent ransomware attack 
targeting the Colonial Pipeline has once again made clear how 
vital it is that we secure our critical infrastructure. As you 
well know as a Georgian, the port of Savannah is a critical 
site not just in Georgia's infrastructure but in our national 
infrastructure, one of the fastest-growing ports in the world, 
the largest single terminal container facility in the Western 
Hemisphere, third busiest port in the country.
    If confirmed, will you commit to meeting with me and 
officials from Savannah and the Georgia Ports Authority to 
discuss how DHS can most effectively ensure the cybersecurity 
of the port of Savannah and other critical infrastructure 
nationwide?
    Mr. Tien. Senator Ossoff, thank you very much for the 
question. The first thing I will say I will absolutely commit 
to meeting with you and the officials that you mentioned in our 
home State. You and I have had these discussions before, but as 
we know, the port of Savannah is critical to all of the 
different free trade that we have discussed. It is also 
critically important to the 3rd Infantry Division at Fort 
Stewart. And so for so many different reasons, those being one 
of--port entries being one of the major parts of our 16 
critical infrastructure sectors, it absolutely is one of the 
things that I would make a priority, and I would look forward 
to traveling with you to see the port of Savannah and meet with 
those officials.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Tien.
    Mr. Meyer, since I joined this Committee, it has become 
clear to me that DHS has had and continues to have serious 
issues responding to congressional requests, including from the 
Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, which I chair, and 
this has been an issue under Democratic and Republican 
administrations, including during your previous tenure at the 
Office of General Counsel. One common and troubling problem has 
been the refusal of DHS and its components to produce documents 
concerning matters that may also be the subject of ongoing 
litigation or other Federal investigations.
    In your view, Mr. Meyer, does the existence of related 
ongoing litigation or investigation provide a valid reason for 
DHS not to respond to congressional requests?
    Mr. Meyer. In my view, Senator Ossoff, the first and 
default position of DHS should always be to provide the 
information that Congress is asking for, including the 
Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, which has a well-
deserved and well-earned reputation for substantive and 
bipartisan oversight.
    As you know, when litigation is involved, it typically, 
almost virtually always involves the equities of other 
agencies, in particular the Department of Justice but often 
others as well. It is the role of DHS and the DHS OGC to 
coordinate with those agencies and work through their equities 
as well. But I can tell you that if I were confirmed as the 
General Counsel at the Department of Homeland Security, my 
default would always be to provide the information if at all 
possible.
    Senator Ossoff. With respect, Mr. Meyer, when it comes to 
investigations, for example, an ongoing investigation that the 
Subcommittee has undertaken into serious allegations of abuse 
of detainees at privately run detention facilities under U.S. 
Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) jurisdiction, the 
equities of other Executive Branch departments, whether that is 
relevant to our oversight efforts is a decision that we will 
make. I want to ask you again, does the existence of related 
ongoing litigation or investigations provide a valid reason for 
DHS not to respond to congressional requests for information?
    Mr. Meyer. I am not familiar with that investigation, 
Senator. I would be happy, if confirmed, to look into it and 
would do all within my power to produce the information you are 
seeking. But I cannot, without familiarity with that 
investigation or a particular litigation, give you an answer to 
that question.
    Senator Ossoff. Mr. Meyer, I appreciate that, but just to 
be clear, that actually was not my question regarding that 
specific investigation. My question is: Does the existence of 
related ongoing litigation or investigation about any matter 
provide a valid reason for DHS not to respond to congressional 
requests for information?
    Mr. Meyer. I believe historically, Senator Ossoff, the 
Executive Branch, going back decades, administrations on both 
sides of the aisle, has at times withheld information relating 
to litigation. I believe that is a longstanding position of the 
Executive Branch. It is not something I would have control 
over. To the extent I would, though, as I say, my default would 
always be to produce documents and produce information.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Meyer, and the pledge from 
you to do everything you can to facilitate the production of 
documents and ensure, in particular, ICE cooperation with our 
investigation and other investigations we may undertake, 
including through testimony by ICE officials, including by 
ensuring that ICE facilitates testimony by ICE contractors, 
would make more comfortable supporting your nomination. So can 
you pledge today to work with my staff to ensure that we 
quickly receive the documents and cooperation we need with 
respect to these ongoing investigation of serious alleged 
abuses of detainees at ICE facilities?
    Mr. Meyer. Absolutely, and I welcome the opportunity.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you so much, Mr. Meyer.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Ossoff.
    Senator Rosen, you are recognized for your questions.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROSEN

    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I want to thank all the nominees 
here for your willingness to serve. The Department of Homeland 
Security is an agency that is vital, and we appreciate your 
willingness to serve.
    I want to talk a little bit about combating anti-Semitism. 
Mr. Silvers, like many Americans, I am alarmed. I am deeply 
concerned about the recent rise in anti-Semitic incidents, not 
just in the United States but, of course, all around the world. 
It is unfortunately not a new trend.
    Over the past few years, it has just been alarming, and it 
has included one of the deadliest attacks against a Jewish 
community in modern American history of the Tree of Life 
Synagogue in Pittsburgh. The Nonprofit Security Grant Program 
(NSPG) that makes FEMA grants eligible to nonprofit 
organizations like synagogues, churches, Jewish community 
centers, other community centers for target hardening and other 
security enhancements that help prevent against these terrorist 
attacks.
    Unfortunately, in fiscal year (FY) 2021, in the DHS budget, 
the last administration failed to request a specific funding 
amount for the program. Mr. Silvers, will you advocate for 
future DHS budget requests to include a specific allocation for 
the Nonprofit Security Grant Program that is sufficient to meet 
the growing needs of this program to keep houses of worship 
secure?
    Mr. Silvers. Senator Rosen, thank you. I share your alarm 
and horror at the rise in anti-Semitism, anti-Semitic violence, 
and the rise of domestic violent extremism more generally. This 
is an issue that is personal to me. When I was last at the 
Department, I played a strong role working with Jewish 
community stakeholders and other faith-based community 
stakeholders to strengthen the Nonprofit Security Grant 
Program, which I think is among the most essential programs 
that the Department administers. It provides critical resources 
to faith-based and other nonprofit organizations around the 
country so that they can harden their defenses, protect 
themselves, their congregants, and others.
    Now in my personal capacity, I serve on the board of 
directors of the Secure Community Network (SCN), which is the 
Jewish community's nonprofit security organization. I 
absolutely commit to you that, if I am confirmed, I will work 
to strengthen the Nonprofit Security Grant Program in any way I 
can and even further. The good news is it has been 
strengthened. When I was at DHS, I think that the funding level 
was something around $20 or $25 million a year. It is now at 
$180 million a year. I was a volunteer on the Biden campaign. I 
helped work on the campaign pledge to strengthen the Nonprofit 
Security Grant Program and to convene faith-based communities, 
including the Jewish community, including Muslim, Christian, 
Hindu, Sikh, and other communities to assess that program and 
see if it is meeting their needs.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I appreciate that because as 
founder and co-chair with Senator Lankford of the first ever 
Senator Bipartisan Task Force for Combating Anti-Semitism, I 
would like to invite you, Mr. Silvers, to collaborate with us--
and so far we have 54 members of the Senate on our task force--
to combat growing anti-Semitism and hate broadly across the 
United States in every single community.
    I have some other questions, but I was just hoping I would 
get your commitment that you will engage with our task force to 
further our shared goal of keeping Americans safe.
    Mr. Silvers. You have it, Senator. Thank you.
    Senator Rosen. Mr. Silvers, yes?
    Mr. Silvers. You have my commitment, Senator. Thank you 
very much.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you.
    I want to move on. I am going to continue to speak with you 
about our cyber workforce, because we have really a huge 
shortage in our workforce. Of course, recent unprecedented 
cyber attacks like the SolarWinds and Colonial Pipeline, they 
demonstrate the urgency of equipping the U.S. Government with 
cyber talent across the board. This is needed to prevent and 
respond to attacks. And so to address this gap, I recently 
introduced bipartisan legislation with Senator Blackburn 
establishing a Civilian Cybersecurity Reserve at both DHS and 
Department of Defense (DOD). This bill authorizes civilian 
cybersecurity personnel to serve in temporary positions as 
Federal civil service employees to supplement existing agency 
cybersecurity personnel.
    Mr. Silvers, if confirmed, will you work with me to ensure 
that DHS can mobilize and really surge up cybersecurity 
capacity at our times of greatest need?
    Mr. Silvers. Senator Rosen, absolutely. I believe the 
shortfall of cybersecurity talent in this country is a national 
security issue. I will look forward, if confirmed, to working 
with you and other Members in any way possible to create 
pipelines of cyber talent to benefit the DHS workforce and also 
to benefit the private sector cybersecurity workforce. I think 
it is a wonderful and laudatory goal. I look forward to working 
with you on that, if confirmed.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. The last thing I would like to 
ask you about is a little bit about our Urban Area Security 
Initiative (UASI). It is a program that is critically important 
to law enforcement in Las Vegas and the surrounding areas, and 
the funding level depends in part on population density, 
special events, and other tourism-related factors.
    In normal times, the Las Vegas Strip, our downtown areas, 
has some of the busiest hotels in the world with 50 million 
people coming through. We host events like the consumer 
electronic show and so many others. But with the pandemic that 
shuttered our economy and the closure of the Las Vegas Strip 
and, of course, the dropoff in tourism and international 
tourism still yet to come back, I am concerned this is going to 
negatively impact that UASI formula and Las Vegas' allocation. 
We use that to fund long-term projects. I am concerned that our 
city may lose funding because of the pandemic.
    We have been in touch with FEMA about this. FEMA has been 
really responsive, so that is positive. But, Mr. Silvers, can 
you commit to taking a look at the funding formula? Any 
exceptions we may have to make in light of the pandemic for the 
last year would not be reflective of what we would need going 
forward. I want to be sure that we have reliable funding to 
keep our Las Vegas Strip, downtown, all of those 50-million-
plus tourists safe.
    Mr. Silvers. Senator, absolutely. You have my commitment to 
work with you on that issue, if I am confirmed. I also, if 
confirmed, would be pleased to engage with FEMA Administrator 
Criswell on that issue. I well understand the concern for you 
and your State.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I so appreciate all of you being 
here today. I yield back.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Rosen.
    Senator Hawley, you are now recognized for your questions.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HAWLEY

    Senator Hawley. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and 
thanks to all the witnesses for being here. Congratulations on 
your nominations.
    Mr. Tien, if I could just start with you, let me start with 
a pretty fundamental question. Do you believe that illegal 
entry at our borders, any of our borders, should remain a 
crime? There is debate about this, so I would just like to get 
your view on it. Do you think it ought to remain a crime?
    Mr. Tien. Senator Hawley, thank you very much for that 
question. When I think about when I was nominated for this 
role, the very first thing I thought about the Department of 
Homeland Security was that its main mission is to safeguard and 
protect our homeland, and it does it through 240,000 great 
employees, folks who are on the border, CBP and others, and 
part of that mission is to enforce our Nation's laws. I 
absolutely support enforcing our Nation's laws, and if 
confirmed, I would look forward to reviewing all of the 
different elements, some of them the one you just discussed, to 
understand what are all the different options that are on the 
table, to include potentially the one you just discussed.
    Senator Hawley. So you do not have a position now, you are 
saying? You are not ready to say today that you think that 
illegal entry ought to remain a crime?
    Mr. Tien. As a private citizen and then, if confirmed, I 
would absolutely commit to enforcing our Nation's laws for 
sure.
    Senator Hawley. I am asking if you think as a policy matter 
it ought to remain a crime. It is currently a crime. There is a 
lot of debate about whether or not it should remain a crime. Do 
you think it should remain a crime? That is my question.
    Mr. Tien. Again, I just want to restate, Senator Hawley, 
respectfully, that if confirmed, I would absolutely inform our 
Nation's laws.
    Senator Hawley. OK. In other words, you are not going to 
answer my question about it remaining a crime. That is 
interesting. I think it is not a particularly difficult 
question. It is one I have posed to multiple nominees. I think 
it is telling. I think it is very telling.
    I am asking you this because I think it is vital that DHS 
enforce our immigration laws, also support law enforcement as 
they work to control surges in illegal migration like we are 
seeing right now. I am worried that it is not happening, and 
that is why I am asking. Just this Tuesday, the Washington Post 
reported ICE agents saying--I am quoting now--``It feels like 
the administration does not have our backs.''
    Under the new administration's rules restricting 
enforcement, ICE has carried out fewer than 3,000 deportations 
last month, which is a record low. I think it is critical that 
ICE be able to continue to execute its mission unhindered and 
ensure that crossing the border illegally carries consequences.
    So let me ask you this: If confirmed, will you fully and 
completely support ICE in its mission of interior enforcement?
    Mr. Tien. If confirmed, Senator Hawley, one of my roles--
and I discussed it in my opening statement--will be to be the 
chief operating officer for the Department of Homeland 
Security, and in that role my mission and the way I tend to 
lead and tend to manage is to ensure that I would empower, 
enable, and support all of the components, to include ICE, in 
the execution of their mission.
    Senator Hawley. OK, good. So you would fully and completely 
support them and their mission of interior enforcement. That is 
a yes.
    Mr. Tien. My statement is that, if confirmed, I would 
support ICE in their full execution of their mission at that 
time.
    Senator Hawley. OK. I think that is a yes. Maybe we can try 
for some yes or no answers. In the first 4 months of 2021, we 
had over 530,000 illegal crossing attempts at the border. Do 
you think that this is an acceptable level of illegal entries?
    Mr. Tien. Senator Hawley, thanks for that statement and for 
that question. When I think about what is happening at the 
Southwest Border, the first thing I think about--and it is a 
personal one. I am a private citizen right now. But as a 
private citizen, I think about my family's escape from 
Communist China. I think about the fact that they were in a 
country that they wanted to stay in, frankly, Nationalist 
China. Then World War II happened, and Communist China came in, 
and it was likely they were going to be persecuted. When I 
think about what has happened at the Southwest Border, I think 
about all those families who are coming from the Northern 
Triangle who are escaping likely persecution. Why would they 
want to leave that country? As a private citizen, that is where 
my first feelings go. I view the fact that they have taken that 
step as one of the things that we will probably have to 
resolve.
    Again, I say this as a private citizen. That is my view in 
terms of what is going on at the Southwest Border. I know it is 
a personal one, and if confirmed, I would look forward to 
working with you and understanding your viewpoints on what is 
happening at the Southwest Border.
    Senator Hawley. I hear you saying that you are not 
particularly concerned about this level of illegal migration.
    Mr. Tien. What I am saying is that, if confirmed as the 
Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security, in the role of the chief 
operating officer, I would absolutely do everything I can to 
enable, empower, and support anybody who is down at the 
Southwest Border to execute their mission.
    Senator Hawley. I am trying to understand what your 
viewpoints are here, and you are rather systematically evading 
my questions. So you are not being confirmed to a judgeship 
where you have to be neutral. You are being confirmed to a 
policy role, so let me just try one more time so the record can 
reflect. I am asking you, there have been 530,000 illegal 
attempts, crossing attempts at the border in the first 4 months 
of 2021. I want to know if you think that that is a problem. 
Your answer suggests you do not think it is a problem because 
you understand why these people are coming. I did not hear a 
word about the cartels, by the way. I did not hear a word about 
human trafficking. I did not hear a word about drug smuggling. 
I did not hear a word about any of that, which, frankly, 
worries me. But let us try again.
    Do you think it is a problem or not?
    Mr. Tien. If confirmed, Senator Hawley, my view is--and I 
think you know about my biography and my experiences. I think 
you heard my response to Senator Hassan before. It is a tough 
situation at the Southwest Border. It is a tough situation for 
all those families who are escaping persecution from the 
Northern Triangle and coming there. There are thousands--you 
have mentioned statistics. There are thousands of migrants who 
have come to the border. I have a history, and the reason I 
mentioned my bio before, Senator Hawley, is I have a history, I 
have the experience of being air dropped--I put it in air 
quotes--``air dropped'' into difficult and tough situations. I 
believe that, if confirmed as the Deputy Secretary, one of my 
roles, again, as the chief operating officer is to empower, 
enable, and support those who are executing the mission, the 
240,000 employees--they are not all, obviously, at the border--
who are executing that mission.
    Senator Hawley. All I can say to that is the fact that you 
do not seem to be concerned about--you say it is a complicated 
situation. What is not complicated about it is that the cartels 
control the Southern Border. What is not complicated about it 
is that every person who crosses that Southern Border is doing 
so with the help of the cartels. The cartels are exploiting 
these people. They are exploiting them. They are exploiting 
children. They are exploiting migrants. They are running drugs 
that are flooding into my State and killing people in my State. 
That is not complicated. I would like to see some appreciation 
of the fact that the exploitation of children that is happening 
at our Southern Border, the smuggling of children that is 
happening at our Southern Border, and the drugs that are 
pouring across that border and into States like mine is a 
serious problem that you take seriously and want to do 
something about. But I have not heard--I have given you 
multiple chances now. We have consumed 7 minutes, and I have 
not heard a word of that from you, which, frankly, I think is 
unbelievable.
    I have questions for the rest of you. I will give those to 
your for the record.\1\
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    \1\ The questions from Senator Hawley appear in the Appendix on 
page 214 and 282.
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    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Hawley.
    Senator Padilla, you are recognized for your questions.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PADILLA

    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A few questions.
    I want to start with Mr. Silvers, and let me preface it by 
saying with a background in engineering, I constantly look to 
data to help inform my thinking and policymaking, so I took 
particular note in an answer on your questionnaire where you 
stated that collecting and disseminating immigration-related 
data should be an important priority, not just for me but for 
all my colleagues. You also committed to working with DHS' 
operational components to improve data collection and 
dissemination.
    I cannot emphasize enough the importance of streamlining 
data collection and dissemination in DHS and its component 
agencies. DHS' inconsistency in collecting and disseminating 
data in recent years has repeatedly led to confusion in this 
Committee.
    For example, charts were used both in this Committee and on 
the floor of the Senate to demonstrate supposedly the number of 
individuals crossing the border over the last year. The 
graphics that were used showed apprehensions of immigrants 
dipping shortly after the Trump administration ordered 
expulsions of migrants under Title 42.
    The problem, according to immigration experts, was that 
while DHS' data showed border encounters and apprehensions 
going down at this point, DHS actually stopped counting Title 
42 expulsions as ``apprehensions.'' The data, therefore, was 
misleading. DHS' charge in data collection and dissemination is 
creating misinformation that only makes it more difficult for 
the public to understand and, sadly, for policymakers to 
understand as we are seeking to legislate important data to get 
a true understanding of what is happening at the border.
    So can you just briefly discuss how you would plan to 
improve and streamline, again, the collection and dissemination 
of important data within DHS and its component agencies?
    Mr. Silvers. Senator Padilla, thank you very much. It is a 
really important issue, because I believe in the adage that you 
cannot manage it if you cannot measure it. I think that 
collecting immigration-related data, border-related data, is 
just a critical component of a comprehensive border management 
strategy and a comprehensive immigration system administration 
strategy.
    The Office of Immigration Statistics is at DHS. I am a 
private citizen now, but my understanding is that recently they 
have made tremendous strides and are doing a lot of innovative 
work to collect and disseminate those kinds of metrics. The 
components--ICE, Customs and Border Protection, U.S. 
Citizenship and Immigration Services--also collect and 
disseminate their own data. I can absolutely commit to you 
that, if I am confirmed, I will work together with those DHS 
offices and agencies to streamline, improve data collection and 
dissemination. I think you need that to do your job overseeing 
the immigration and border system as a Member of Congress. I 
would commit to working with you as well.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you. Let me pull out another 
specific area that comes to mind when we look at data, 
beginning with two data points. In fiscal year 2010, 11,230 
servicemembers were naturalized, immigrants serving that became 
United States citizens. In contrast, that number in fiscal year 
2020 was 4,530, more than a 50-percent drop. A number of policy 
decisions made under the Trump administration has resulted in 
the sharp drop in the number of military naturalizations. For 
example, the process for military members to receive a 
certification of honorable service to expedite their 
naturalization application was made more onerous and, again, 
fewer servicemembers stationed abroad were able to have their 
applications processed due to the closing of USCIS offices. So 
affording women and men who are willing to serve and in some 
cases paid the ultimate sacrifice in defense of our Nation and 
our democracy, they deserve a fair pathway to citizenship and 
naturalization.
    So what steps can USCIS take in conjunction with the 
Department of Defense to help facilitate military 
naturalizations, not make them more onerous?
    Mr. Silvers. Senator Padilla, I have attended military 
naturalization ceremonies. They are amongst the most beautiful 
events that the U.S. Government holds. To see people who are 
fighting, putting their lives on the line for a country that is 
not yet their own but that they aspire to be a part of, and 
then to take that step is a pure and beautiful thing. It is 
also an important component of keeping a fighting force and 
maintaining a strong fighting force with those who are ready to 
serve ably. If I am confirmed, I commit to you to removing any 
unnecessary barrier to members, men and women in our military 
services taking that next step and naturalizing to become 
United States citizens.
    Senator Padilla. I look forward to working with you on 
that.
    A final question, Mr. Chair. This one is for Colonel Tien. 
I know, Mr. Chair, that you touched earlier in the hearing on 
the issue of domestic terrorism, but I would like to ask more 
specifically about the DHS task force that has been 
established. In April, the Department announced it would 
conduct an internal review to root out extremism, and 
specifically the review would focus on rooting out white 
supremacy and domestic violent extremism, including in Customs 
and Border Protection and Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
    I am reminded of the news we learned in 2019 where a 
Facebook group that included participation of 9,500 current and 
former Border Patrol agents, where they made jokes about 
migrant deaths, circulated vile images, and made disrespectful 
comments against female Members of Congress who visited 
detention centers, when that group became public.
    Colonel Tien, could you discuss the importance of this 
review for the Department's internal culture and how a 
transparent review affects the Department's public image?
    Mr. Tien. Senator Padilla, thank you very much for that 
question. The first thing I will say is I am very glad--again, 
this is as a private citizen--that Secretary Mayorkas has taken 
this step to conduct an internal DHS review on domestic violent 
extremism, very similar to what the Department of Defense has 
done around their stand-down for very similar purposes. I will 
say again, as a private citizen, my individual opinion as it 
stands now is racism, white supremacy, hateful ideology, 
especially when it converts and becomes action and breaks the 
law, is an anathema to the very ideals and the very principles 
of what makes this Nation so unique, so differentiated in the 
world. It is abhorrent.
    In terms of the DHS internal review, there is, from what I 
understand--again, I am not privy; I am not in the Department 
now. But from what I understand, it is a review not about 
thought control. It is about action control, and it is about 
making sure--again, I say this as a private citizen. I have not 
been privy to all of the different elements of how they are 
doing the review. It is really about saying there is no place 
for this kind of white supremacy, this kind of racist and 
hateful ideologies, especially if it converts into action and 
especially if it breaks the law. If confirmed, Senator, you 
have my commitment to ensure that that DHS internal review is 
fully supported.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you very much.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Padilla.
    Senator Sinema, you are recognized for your questions.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SINEMA

    Senator Sinema. I appreciate the nominees joining us today, 
and I thank them for their interest in serving our Nation. DHS 
plays a key role in several issues of critical importance to 
Arizona, including border security and management, domestic and 
international terrorism, and cybersecurity. I look forward to 
addressing those issues today.
    My first question is for Colonel Tien. Our Nation faces a 
crisis at our Southwest Border. Ensuring that U.S. Customs and 
Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and the 
entire DHS organization are properly coordinating and 
efficiently working with State, local, and tribal partners is 
an important part of the Deputy Secretary's portfolio and will 
make Arizona safer.
    How will your previous experience help you improve DHS 
efficiency and interagency cooperation? What steps do you want 
to take, if confirmed, to ensure DHS components are 
successfully working with other Federal partners such as the 
Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and State local, 
and tribal entities?
    Mr. Tien. Senator Sinema, thank you very much for that 
question. One of the things of my experiences across the last 
34 years has been in very different types of organizations: in 
the United States Army, in the National Security Council, and 
certainly over the last 10 years within Citigroup in the 
financial services sector. Across all those different times, I 
have had opportunities to have to create integration, to 
increase and improve integration, interoperability, and 
communications. These are the types of experiences that I would 
attempt to establish within the Department of Homeland 
Security.
    In particular, I think about my time as a battalion 
commander leading those 1,100 great soldiers, sailors, airmen, 
and marines in Iraq when we came in, and it was a very 
different kind of fight in 2006 and 2007 and the 
counterinsurgency warfare in Iraq in Tal Afar and Ramadi, and 
we needed to integrate not just with other army units. We 
needed to integrate across joint operations. We needed to 
integrate across the interagency, the great colleagues from 
State and United States Agency for International Development 
(USAID), and we had to do it under some incredibly difficult 
conditions.
    You spoke about the situation at the Southwest Border. 
First, let me just say to you I know obviously Arizona is a 
border State. I know it affects you very locally, very 
personally, and so I appreciate everything that you and your 
colleagues are doing to secure the border there.
    The last thing I will say is the Department of Homeland 
Security was created partially--or, actually much in response 
to the fact that there needed to be better integration, better 
interoperability, and better communications. And given, if 
confirmed, my role as the chief operating officer of the 
Department of Homeland Security, I see that, the very things 
that you spoke about, the task and purpose, to do that 
integration, to improve the interoperability, to improve that 
communication across the interagency down to Federal, State, 
local, tribal, and territorial as one of the main priorities 
that I would have.
    Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Sinema. Following up on this general topic with Mr. 
Silvers, improving coordination between DHS component agencies 
must be a key goal for the Office of Strategy, Policy, and 
Plans. In Arizona, we have seen challenges arise due to a lack 
of coordination between ICE and CBP about how best to ensure 
migrants are treated fairly and humanely. Now, this has made 
our communities less safe and our borders less secure. If 
confirmed, what initial steps will you take to improve 
communication and coordination between ICE and CBP?
    Mr. Silvers. Senator Sinema, thank you very much for that 
question. The three immigration agencies within DHS--USCIS, 
ICE, and CBP--all play a critical and integrated role in the 
immigration and border broader system, and it is just 
imperative that they coordinate closely with each other. I am 
not familiar with the current opportunities and challenges for 
that, sitting here as a private citizens or the specific 
concerns you raise now. I commit to you--I have seen--in my 
last period of service at DHS, I have seen very effective 
coordination between those agencies on critical issues, and I 
commit to you to doing everything in my power to convene those 
agencies, if confirmed, and to ensure good coordination. I am 
sure Secretary Mayorkas is already doing much in that regard, 
and if confirmed, I would join in that effort.
    Senator Sinema. Thanks.
    I would like to return to Colonel Tien here, focusing on 
border security specifically, DHS faces a wide variety of 
terrain across the Southwest Border. In Arizona alone, DHS has 
had to secure the border in urban environments such as Nogales, 
deserts around Yuma, and mountainous terrain near New Mexico.
    So what steps do you plan to take to ensure proper analysis 
and data drives resources, infrastructure, and operational 
decisions regarding border security needs and goals?
    Mr. Tien. Thank you very much, Senator Sinema, for that 
question. Again, I know that Iraq is not Arizona, obviously, 
but as you were asking the question, my first thought went to 
the comparison between very different terrains that my unit in 
Iraq had to deal with. We also had a border with Syria. We had 
urban terrain in Tal Afar, and we had rolling hills, very 
similar--I do not know obviously, Arizona as well as you do, 
but it was challenging. When I think about all of the different 
things that our Border Patrol agents have to go through, my hat 
goes off to them again. They are operating in difficult 
conditions in terms of environment and in terms of weather, and 
they do it every single day, upholding their oath of office to 
support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, 
foreign and domestic.
    So as the chief operating officer, if confirmed, for the 
Department of Homeland Security, again, I commit to you that I 
would empower, I would enable, I would support, and I would do 
it as a result--partially as a result of my visit to the border 
which I would hope to do with you and any of the other Members 
of this Committee within a reasonable amount of time, if 
confirmed.
    Thank you, Senator Sinema.
    Senator Sinema. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, my last question is for Mr. Meyer. One of my 
goals for improving border management is the need to improve 
legal orientation and access to capital for migrants. This is 
one reason I recently introduced bipartisan legislation with 
Senator Cornyn. What are some of the road blocks Congress needs 
to consider as it seeks to improve legal orientation and 
information for migrants in DHS custody?
    Mr. Meyer. Thank you, Senator Sinema. I share your concern 
for the availability of legal resources to people at the 
border. I think it is a very important issue, and I welcome the 
opportunity to work with you and I guess with Ranking Member 
Portman on it as well.
    I think one of the chief constraints, as is so often the 
case, is going to be resources. It takes resources to be able 
to provide legal counsel and legal advice, particularly at the 
level that individuals deserve. We need to find a way to get 
those resources there.
    It is also going to be about training, making sure that the 
resources that are made available are properly trained and 
knowledgeable and can serve their clients as best they can and 
provide the judgment and the advice that good legal resources 
are meant to provide.
    I think those are some of the key issues, and, again, I 
welcome the opportunity to work with you on that if I am 
confirmed.
    Senator Sinema. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Sinema.
    To each of our nominees, I want to take this moment to 
thank you once again for your willingness to serve in these 
critical positions. We appreciate your answers to the questions 
from my colleagues here today.
    I will say for the record that all of the nominees have 
made financial disclosures\1\ and have provided responses to 
biographical and prehearing questions\2\ submitted by this 
Committee. Without objection, this information will be made 
part of the hearing record\3\ with the exception of the 
financial data, which is on file and available for public 
inspection in the Committee offices.
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    \1\ The information of Mr. Tien appears in the Appendix on page 50.
    \2\ The information of Mr. Silvers appear in the Appendix on page 
140.
    \3\ The information of Mr. Meyer appears in the Appendix on page 
226.
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    The hearing record will remain open until 12 p.m. tomorrow, 
May 28th, for the submission of statements and questions for 
the record.
    With that, this hearing is now adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:24 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

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