[Senate Hearing 117-80]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                         S. Hrg. 117-80

                      OPEN HEARING: NOMINATION OF
                 WILLIAM J. BURNS TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE
                      CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                    SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE

                                 OF THE

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2021

                               __________

      Printed for the use of the Select Committee on Intelligence



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45-486 			    WASHINGTON : 2021
                   
                   
                   
                   SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE

           [Established by S. Res. 400, 94th Cong., 2d Sess.]

                   MARK R. WARNER, Virginia, Chairman
                  MARCO RUBIO, Florida, Vice Chairman

DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California         RICHARD BURR, North Carolina
RON WYDEN, Oregon                    JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico          SUSAN COLLINS, Maine
ANGUS KING, Maine                    ROY BLUNT, Missouri
MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado          TOM COTTON, Arkansas
BOB CASEY, Pennsylvania              JOHN CORNYN, Texas
KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      BEN SASSE, Nebraska

                  CHUCK SCHUMER, New York, Ex Officio
                 MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky, Ex Officio
                  JACK REED, Rhode Island, Ex Officio
                   JAMES INHOFE, Oklahoma, Ex Officio
                              ----------                              
                     Michael Casey, Staff Director
                 Chris Joyner, Minority Staff Director
                   Kelsey Stroud Bailey, Chief Clerk
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           FEBRUARY 24, 2021

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page

Warner, Hon. Mark R., a U.S. Senator from Virginia...............     1
Rubio, Hon. Marco, a U.S. Senator from Florida...................     3

                              WITNESSES *

Baker, William, Former Secretary of State........................     5
Panetta, Leon, Former Director of the Central Intelligence 
  Agency; Former Secretary of Defense............................     7
Burns, William J., Nominee to be Director of the Central 
  Intelligence Agency............................................     9
    Prepared statement...........................................    13

                         SUPPLEMENTAL MATERIAL

Questionnaire for Completion by Presidential Nominees............    44
Additional Pre-Hearing Questions.................................    62
Post-Hearing Questions for the Record............................    89

* Mr. Baker and Mr. Panetta appeared via WebEx.

 
                      OPEN HEARING: NOMINATION OF



                 WILLIAM J. BURNS TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE



                      CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                          Select Committee on Intelligence,
                                                    Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:04 a.m., in Room 
  SR-301, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Mark R. Warner 
  (Chairman of the Committee) presiding........................
Present: Senators Warner, Rubio, Feinstein, Wyden, Heinrich, 
  King (via WebEx), Bennet, Casey, Gillibrand (via WebEx), Reed 
  (Ex Officio), Burr, Risch, Collins, Blunt, Cotton, Cornyn, 
  and Sasse....................................................

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARK R. WARNER, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 
                            VIRGINIA

Chairman Warner. Good morning, everyone. I would like to call 
  this hearing to order and recognize that I think this is the 
  first time in the history of the Intelligence Committee that 
  we have met in the Rules Committee's space. I think we 
  probably owe that to the distinguished former Chairman of the 
  Rules Committee, Senator Blunt. We would hope--I know you are 
  still the Ranking Member--but there's been a series of 
  requests from Intel Committee staff that we would like a ship 
  put in our SCIF as well......................................
Senator Blunt. Only the Rules Committee can have a ship. No 
  ship is available............................................
Chairman Warner. Can you say NGA West?.........................
Well, again I'd like to call this Committee to order, and again 
  we appreciate the cooperation of our colleagues on the Rules 
  Committee for letting us use this setting....................
Welcome, Ambassador Burns......................................
I know as we talked in the anteroom that your wife, Lisa, is 
  still hard at work in Geneva, and your daughters are watching 
  remotely, but I know they are here with you in spirit. I 
  would like to say congratulations on your nomination to be 
  the next Director of the CIA. After a long and distinguished 
  career in the Foreign Service, you deserve a well-earned 
  retirement, but the country still needs your talents.........
Ambassador Burns--Bill--thank you for once again being willing 
  to serve our country.........................................
Welcome also to our two distinguished guests who are joining us 
  remotely: former Secretary of State James Baker and former 
  Defense Secretary and CIA Director Leon Panetta. It's going 
  to be a privilege to hear from such eminent and bipartisan 
  public servants who will introduce Ambassador Burns. Again I 
  think is a great indication of his broad-based support.......
I understand that some of our Members may be joining us 
  remotely today as well, although I would like to acknowledge 
  Senator Casey. He appeared yesterday remotely but is here 
  today for his first in-person Intelligence Committee meeting. 
  We are very glad, Bob, to have you on the Committee..........
After the Vice Chairman and I give our opening statement, 
  Secretaries Baker and Panetta will say a few words, and 
  Ambassador Burns will then make his remarks. After this, 
  Members' questions will be for five minutes in order of 
  arrival......................................................
Ambassador Burns has provided us with written responses to 
  questions from the Committee, and today's hearing will 
  provide Members the opportunity to thoughtfully consider his 
  qualifications, to hear directly from the nominee, and for 
  Ambassador Burns to share his views on how he would lead the 
  women and men of the Central Intelligence Agency.............
Bill took the Foreign Service exam in November 1979, just a few 
  days after the seizure of our Embassy in Tehran and went on 
  to spend over three decades in the Foreign Service working 
  under both Democratic and Republican Presidents and ably 
  representing America around the world and at the highest 
  ranks of the State Department................................
He's been confirmed by the Senate five times--so going for six 
  today--and has served in both the number two and three 
  positions at the State Department: Deputy Secretary of State 
  and Undersecretary for Political Affairs. He's been our 
  Nation's Ambassador to Russia, to Jordan, and held a variety 
  of other senior national security roles. He holds the highest 
  rank in the State Department, that of Career Ambassador......
He is currently the president of the Carnegie Endowment for 
  International Peace, the oldest international think tank in 
  the United States. It is safe to say that Mr. Burns is 
  intimately familiar with the challenges and opportunities 
  that the United States faces around the globe, in many cases 
  with firsthand, on-the-ground experience and expertise. It is 
  the key qualities of expertise and sound judgment that, 
  perhaps above all others, will be most important in your role 
  as the Director of the CIA...................................
After four years during which the expertise and judgment of 
  America's civil servants were at times belittled and 
  discounted, the next Director must lead and inspire patriotic 
  professionals with humility and compassion, work 
  collaboratively with allied governments, and dispassionately 
  judge the actions of our adversaries.........................
CIA has in some ways been luckier than many other agencies. 
  Director Haspel, your predecessor, has led the CIA with 
  distinction under very difficult conditions, but I will be 
  looking to hear your views on how to inspire CIA's 
  intelligence professionals who often risk much, sacrifice 
  much, and sometimes up to and including their health and 
  lives in service of our country--and oftentimes without 
  recognition because of their requirement to do that in 
  secret.......................................................
I would like to hear how you plan to reinforce the credo no 
  matter the political pressure, no matter what, that CIA 
  officers will always do the right thing and speak truth to 
  power. And it is up to America's leaders, including you if 
  you are confirmed, to ensure that CIA's officers will not 
  face retribution or retaliation for speaking truth to power..
Beyond this basic task, our country faces a host of hazards 
  from China's drive to surpass the United States 
  technologically, to Russia's continued malign efforts in 
  cyberspace and disinformation, to the ongoing threats from 
  Iran and North Korea. Moreover, we are still in the midst of 
  a global pandemic--although with hope on the horizon--that 
  has taken the lives and livelihoods of hundreds of thousands 
  of Americans.................................................
These challenges are difficult, but with our traditionally 
  strong network of alliances, they are surmountable. We will 
  always rely on the CIA to be the Nation's eyes and ears, to 
  see over the horizon, and to give us warnings of threats and 
  challenges; not simply the ones we are facing now and in the 
  near term, but those in the future against which we must 
  begin to prepare today.......................................
Fulfilling this Committee's oversight obligations will require 
  transparency and responsiveness from your office. We may at 
  times ask difficult questions of you and your staff, and we 
  will expect honest, complete, and timely answers.............
At the same time, we will also want you to feel free to come to 
  the Committee with situations that warrant our partnership. 
  You can always count on this Committee to hear you out, give 
  you a fair shake, usually without the partisan tinge that has 
  unfortunately affected much of the rest of this Capitol......
We will have much more to discuss during today's questions, but 
  I would take this moment to assure you that should you be 
  confirmed, I look forward to working closely with you to 
  defend this Nation's security................................
Thank you again for your years of service to our country and 
  for stepping forward yet again and agreeing to serve. I look 
  forward to your testimony, and with that, I recognized the 
  distinguished Vice Chairman..................................

  OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARCO RUBIO, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 
                            FLORIDA

Vice Chairman Rubio. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Ambassador 
  thank you for being with us today. I join the Chairman in 
  offering you and your family our congratulations, and/or 
  condolences as you may deem appropriate, for your nomination 
  at this important time in our Nation's history with these 
  challenges that we face......................................
The role that you have been nominated to fill is without 
  parallel in our government. If confirmed you will sit at the 
  nexus of the Agency's intelligence collection, analysis, 
  covert action, counterintelligence, and liaison relationships 
  with foreign intelligence services. Responsibility for any of 
  these missions would be an enormous undertaking for any 
  single one of them, let alone all of them. But the core 
  mission of the Agency is and remains the collection of 
  intelligence; the analysis of that intelligence to help 
  inform policymakers in the decisions they make; and then, of 
  course, operations as well...................................
And in that context, as Director, you will be responsible for 
  managing the CIA officers and employees of today, but also 
  for cultivating the workforce that we are going to need in 
  the years to come. So this, in my view, entails the 
  specialized skills and expertise needed to solve today's 
  unique intelligence challenges--our residents at the Agency--
  but also it involves looking ahead a decade and thinking 
  about what the next critical skill set is going to be that 
  the officers will need. So I appreciate your insights as to 
  how you intend to achieve and accomplish that in your time 
  there........................................................
On the subject of workforce management, I want to mention that 
  the Committee, in particular Senator Collins and others, are 
  extremely interested and invested in ensuring that any 
  officers who have been injured in the field are afforded 
  access to the healthcare and the benefits that they need. And 
  this is particularly true when it comes to injuries that seem 
  to be consistent with symptoms of traumatic brain injury.....
So, if you are confirmed, I ask for your commitment to work 
  with the Committee so that we can find the appropriate 
  legislative or policy changes that ensure that the CIA's 
  commitment to the health and care of its officers is never 
  left in doubt; and that we are applying the necessary 
  resources to determine who was behind these things that have 
  impacted personnel from various agencies. And I want to be 
  clear: the Government of the United States needs to solve 
  this problem, needs to take care of our people; but needs to 
  also forcibly respond to whoever is responsible for hurting 
  Americans who are serving our country overseas...............
Today the United States faces an array of diverse national 
  security threats, an array of threats that is as challenging 
  as any in our history. The long-standing hostility from 
  Putin's regime in Russia and from Iran, North Korea; a global 
  pandemic moving into its second year; violent extremism; 
  state and non-state cyber actors that infiltrate and plunder 
  government and private sector computer networks with what 
  seems like impunity--and with new and creative methods.......
But no challenge that we face rivals the multifaceted threat 
  posed by the Chinese Communist Party. And so, even as we 
  continue to focus on the threats from counterterrorism and 
  from all these other nation-states and non-state actors, the 
  threat from the Chinese Communist Party is the most 
  significant facing our Nation, perhaps in its history. We 
  cannot, in my view, just be the orderly caretakers of our 
  Nation's decline.............................................
We must confront and, I hope, frustrate the ambitions of the 
  Chinese Communist Party, not just to upend norms, amend 
  boundaries, but to replace the United States. Their goal is 
  to replace the United States as the world's most powerful and 
  influential Nation. And achieving the goal of not letting 
  that happen is going to involve strengthening and expanding 
  alliances. I think it's also going to involve increased 
  capability and a stronger resolve to meet this challenge. 
  This is not the same system of crisis that past CIA leaders 
  were called upon to defend against. The threats today are 
  sudden, unpredictable, and they're happening with greater 
  frequency, often occurring in a gray space that embraces the 
  objectives of conflict without quite crossing the line into 
  outright warfare.............................................
What I think is plain to me and should be to all is that the 
  world has changed how it chooses to engage the United States. 
  What I'd like to hear from you today and, if confirmed, in 
  the weeks and months to come, is whether the CIA needs to 
  change how it engages the world..............................
I hope that over the course of our open and closed sessions 
  today you'll take the opportunity to explain not only your 
  understanding of the Agency's unique role in America and in 
  our government, but your vision for how that role needs to 
  evolve in the coming years so that the Agency is positioned 
  to defend against those emerging national security threats 
  that have not yet even materialized..........................
There is no disputing the speed and unrivaled capability that 
  the Agency can bring to bear in responding to a fully 
  realized national security threat. But what I'm driving at, 
  however, is an intelligence apparatus oriented toward the 
  technological advances and the global interconnectivity that 
  will be at the core of the next generation of threats to this 
  Nation's security: artificial intelligence, advanced data 
  analytics, biotechnology, disinformation, deep fakes, social 
  network manipulation. America's adversaries have used this 
  and all these things and will use these instruments. And 
  they'll use other new instruments of power and technologies, 
  some that haven't even been named yet, to close the 
  capability gap that has advantaged us as a Nation for 
  decades......................................................
The refashioning of the national security threat picture by 
  these technological and methodological advances calls into 
  question whether the traditional constructs of espionage need 
  to be refined, refashioned, and redesigned along with it.....
So, I'd welcome your thoughts on this subject, both today and 
  going forward, and add that this is exactly the kind of 
  undertaking that has benefited by CIA's working partnership 
  with this Committee and with its Members.....................
So, it's my hope--and, frankly, my expectation--that you will 
  look at this Committee as a partner to the CIA's work as our 
  Nation's first line of defense. The relationship between the 
  Agency and this Committee is premised, obviously, on 
  oversight, but it is most effective and most constructive 
  when we are candid, fulsome, and talking to one another......
Ambassador, as the Chairman indicated, you have a lengthy and 
  distinguished career of service to our country, and I thank 
  you for your willingness to resume that service. And I 
  certainly look forward to your testimony and your answers 
  here today...................................................
Thank you, Mr. Chairman........................................
Chairman Warner. Thank you, Senator Rubio......................
Bill, I understand you have two of America's most distinguished 
  public servants, former Secretary of State James Baker and 
  former Defense and CIA Director Leon Panetta, who will 
  present brief introductions for you. They'll be speaking 
  remotely on your behalf today................................
So, Secretary Baker, would you like to go first?...............

      STATEMENT BY JAMES BAKER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE

Secretary Baker. Thank you Chairman Warner, thank you Vice 
  Chairman Rubio and Members of the Committee, for inviting me 
  to speak today on the nomination of William J. Burns to be 
  Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. I am truly 
  honored that Bill asked me to speak on his behalf today, and 
  I am delighted to be joined by my old friend, Leon Panetta...
Without any reservations, Members of the Committee, I can 
  strongly recommend Bill Burns to you.........................
Bill, President Biden is to be congratulated for choosing you, 
  and my reasoning in this regard is really straightforward. 
  Bill is quite simply one of the finest and most intelligent 
  American diplomats that I had the pleasure of working with. 
  His unique combination of experience, skill, and character 
  make him an outstanding choice for directorship of the CIA...
As a Secretary of State, I relied on Bill's judgment during one 
  of the most tumultuous eras in U.S. foreign policy. He was 
  instrumental in forging effective American policies as we 
  worked to end the cold war peacefully, ensure the 
  reunification of a Germany firmly embedded in the West, 
  reverse Iraqi aggression against Kuwait, and bring together 
  Israel and all of its neighboring Arab states for their 
  first-ever face-to-face meeting at the 1991 Madrid Peace 
  Conference...................................................
Each of these complex situations was challenging, and Bill's 
  contributions made an enormous difference. Bill was there 
  every step of the way, even at times displaying his first-
  rate sense of humor by laughing at my weak jokes. Bill 
  combined the remarkable ability to grasp broad historical 
  trends while at the same time identifying pragmatic 
  opportunities for the United States to advance our interests.
After I left office, I watched Bill rise to ever more senior 
  ranks in the State Department: Executive Secretary, 
  Ambassador to Jordan, Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern 
  Affairs, Ambassador to Russia, Undersecretary of State for 
  Political Affairs, and then finally Deputy Secretary of 
  State. I wasn't surprised by his success. He is someone who 
  seizes and surmounts every challenge that he meets...........
Members of the Committee, you can be assured when it comes to 
  the security of the United States, our country will be in 
  capable hands. I cannot help but think about another Director 
  of Central Intelligence, President George H. W. Bush, my 
  close friend who served as head of the Agency in the 1970s. 
  President Bush and Bill Burns admittedly represent contrasts 
  in terms of age, background, and career, but they do share 
  one important, indeed, essential characteristic: an absolute 
  and abiding sense of responsibility and duty to the United 
  States of America. Bill Burns is a leader and a steady hand 
  under fire. He never hesitates to speak truth even when he 
  knows it may be unwelcome....................................
He is scrupulously nonpartisan, and he has decades of 
  experience working closely with the CIA and other 
  intelligence agencies. He knows Washington. He knows the 
  work. President Biden and our country would be very fortunate 
  to have Bill Burns at the helm of the Central Intelligence 
  Agency.......................................................
Distinguished Members of the Committee, let me close these 
  brief remarks by simply saying that, in my opinion, this 
  confirmation should be a bipartisan no-brainer...............
Thank you very much for letting me speak to you today on behalf 
  of Bill Burns. Thank you.....................................
Chairman Warner. Well, thank you, Secretary Baker, very much 
  appreciate those comments....................................
Secretary Panetta?.............................................

      STATEMENT BY LEON PANETTA, FORMER DIRECTOR, CENTRAL 
      INTELLIGENCE AGENCY, AND FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE

Secretary Panetta. Mr. Chairman, Senator Warner, Vice Chairman 
  Rubio, distinguished Members of the Committee, it's an honor 
  for me to once again have the opportunity to appear before 
  this Committee that is so critical to protecting our national 
  security.....................................................
I'm honored to be here alongside my friend, Secretary Jim 
  Baker. He's an old friend and a colleague for many years in 
  government, and someone who I believe is probably one of the 
  great statesmen and public servants of our time. I'm proud to 
  join him in introducing the President's nominee to be CIA 
  Director, Ambassador Bill Burns..............................
I've known Bill for a long time. I've been in public life for 
  probably over 50 years, and I've worked with him in many of 
  those capacities that I've held in Congress, during my tenure 
  as Chief of Staff to President Bill Clinton, and as Director 
  of the CIA and Secretary of Defense in President Obama's 
  administration...............................................
The job of leading the extraordinary women and men of the CIA 
  as they carry out their indispensable missions of collection, 
  analysis, covert action--all intended to defend our Nation--
  that job, I believe, is one of the most important 
  responsibilities in government. And the most important 
  qualities that I believe a Director should have is to respect 
  and support the professionals in the CIA who put their lives 
  on the line in order to protect this country and do their 
  jobs.........................................................
I think it is important for the Director to protect them from 
  political influence, to be nonpartisan, and to always, always 
  make sure that the CIA speaks truth to power. Bill Burns has 
  those qualities. He understands the dedication of our brave 
  intelligence officers. He has got the right experience, he 
  has got the right nonpartisan approach, and he knows the 
  importance of protecting our country from our adversaries....
In a word, he will make an outstanding Director of the CIA.....
I don't need to tell this Committee that our Nation faces an 
  increasingly complex set of challenges and threats. I think 
  in my lifetime I have never seen as many flashpoints in the 
  world as we have today, whether it's Russia or China or Iran 
  or North Korea; whether it's cyberattacks; whether it's 
  challenges that we face in the Middle East, in Afghanistan. 
  All of these challenges demand good intelligence.............
No President--no President--can make the right decisions for 
  our Nation in protecting our national security without 
  intelligence. This is what the CIA does by collecting and 
  analyzing and presenting intelligence to policymakers so that 
  they can make the best security decisions for the country and 
  provide intelligence that can be trusted and is credible.....
The challenge of President Biden and a new Director is to 
  restore the trust and credibility of the CIA. Having worked 
  with President Biden, I believe that he understands that 
  intelligence must be grounded in facts and never be 
  politicized..................................................
He knows our selfless and brave intelligence professionals, and 
  they deserve nothing less than our full support. It is for 
  these reasons that he chose Bill Burns to be the CIA 
  Director, and I am confident that both will work to restore 
  trust of the CIA with the National Security Team, with both 
  Democrats and Republicans on this Committee, with our allies, 
  and most of all, with the American people....................
As Jim Baker pointed out, Bill has represented our country for 
  decades as a dedicated, honest diplomat serving both 
  Democratic and Republican administrations. I won't walk 
  through his career, Jim just did that. It's been an 
  outstanding foreign policy career. I have to say it is almost 
  exactly 10 months ago this month, or 10 years ago this month, 
  that Bill and I were in the Situation Room presenting 
  intelligence to the President on the suspected whereabouts of 
  Osama bin Laden..............................................
Bill saw the CIA in action gathering detailed information, 
  providing insights, explaining what we knew and also what we 
  didn't know. And Bill was at the White House on May 1, 2011, 
  when the courageous mission of our special operations forces 
  unfolded. He was hand-picked by the Secretary of State to 
  personally participate in closely held national security 
  discussions about the mission, and to place calls to our key 
  allies and foreign leaders informing them of the mission.....
He is a public servant who has spent his life serving and 
  protecting Americans. As CIA Director, he will certainly 
  speak truth to power because that is what Bill does, and he 
  has done that his entire career..............................
He has long known that calling it down the middle is essential 
  even when it may not be convenient. He will also make sure he 
  and other Agency leaders are responsive to oversight by this 
  Committee and by the Congress. As all of you know, I'm a big 
  believer that the CIA and this Committee have to be partners 
  in order to fulfill the mission of protecting the American 
  people. And he knows the array of challenges that the Agency 
  faces dealing with major competitors, as I said, from China 
  to so many other of those flashpoints I described, and the 
  technological landscape in which our officers now have to 
  operate......................................................
In sum, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Vice Chairman and Members of the 
  Committee, Bill Burns is the right person at the right time 
  to lead the CIA. His experience in foreign policy and 
  national security, his judgment, his unquestioned integrity 
  will be assets as he leads the CIA in facing the threats that 
  we face......................................................
And he understands the sacrifices that are made by our 
  intelligence professionals, often working in the shadows in 
  dangerous places away from their families. He knows that CIA, 
  these officers, are silent warriors--officers who put their 
  lives on the line for our country. I trust Bill Burns to be a 
  Director who will have their backs so that they can continue 
  the mission to protect all Americans.........................
As a former Director, I am honored to introduce to the 
  Committee Bill Burns and urge his swift confirmation. Thank 
  you..........................................................
Chairman Warner. Well, thank you Secretary Panetta. And let me 
  just say it's--on a personal basis--not too bad to have Jim 
  Baker and Leon Panetta be your introducers...................
So now we will move to the Oath of Office......................
Ambassador Burns, would you stand and please raise your right 
  hand?........................................................
[Nominee stands and raises his right hand.]....................
Do you solemnly swear to give this Committee the truth, the 
  full truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?......
Ambassador Burns. I do.........................................
Chairman Warner. Please be seated..............................
Before we move to your statement, I would ask you the five 
  standard questions the Committee poses to each nominee who 
  appears before us. They just require a simple yes or no 
  answer for the record........................................
First, do you agree to appear before the Committee here or in 
  other venues when invited?...................................
Ambassador Burns. Yes, Sir.....................................
Chairman Warner. If confirmed, do you agree to send officials 
  from your office to appear before the Committee and 
  designated staff when invited?...............................
Ambassador Burns. Yes..........................................
Chairman Warner. Do you agree to provide documents or other 
  materials requested by the Committee in order for it to carry 
  out its oversight and legislative responsibilities?..........
Ambassador Burns. Yes, Sir.....................................
Chairman Warner. Will you ensure that your office and your 
  staff provide such materials to the Committee when requested?
Ambassador Burns. Yes..........................................
Chairman Warner. Do you agree to inform and fully brief to the 
  fullest extent possible all Members of this Committee of 
  intelligence activities and covert actions rather than only 
  the Chairman and Vice Chairman?..............................
Ambassador Burns. Yes, Sir.....................................
Chairman Warner. Thank you very much...........................
We will now proceed to your opening statement. After that, I 
  will recognize Members by order of appearance, but assuming 
  that everybody was here, I think, with the exception of 
  Senator Cotton at the gavel. So it will be basically by 
  seniority....................................................
Ambassador Burns, the floor is now yours.......................

    STATEMENT OF AMBASSADOR WILLIAM J. BURNS, NOMINEE TO BE 
          DIRECTOR OF THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY

Ambassador Burns. Thank you so much............................
Mr. Chairman, Mr. Vice Chairman, Members of the Committee: I am 
  honored and humbled to appear before you today as President 
  Biden's nominee for Director of the Central Intelligence 
  Agency. I am deeply grateful to the President for the 
  opportunity to return to public service and to lead the 
  remarkable women and men of CIA..............................
If confirmed, I will do everything in my power to justify the 
  trust placed in me and to earn the trust of this Committee, 
  Congress, and the American people. I am also deeply grateful 
  to Secretary Baker and Director Panetta, two of the finest 
  public servants this country has ever produced, for their 
  very generous introductions..................................
My whole life has been shaped by public service. My father, a 
  career Army officer, fought in Vietnam in the 1960s and 
  eventually became the Director of the U.S. Arms Control and 
  Disarmament Agency...........................................
As my three brothers and I bounced from post to post across our 
  remarkable country we never had to look further than my 
  father for the best possible model of nonpartisan public 
  service. And I never had to look further than my mother to 
  find the best imaginable example of selflessness and 
  commitment and a life shaped by faith, family, and hard work.
I shared 33 years in the Foreign Service with my wife, Lisa--
  herself, an exceptional public servant--and our two wonderful 
  daughters, Lizzie and Sarah. Their love and support have made 
  everything possible and have enriched my life beyond measure.
Across those decades as a diplomat in the Middle East and 
  Russia, and as a senior official in Administrations of both 
  parties, I developed enormous respect for my CIA colleagues. 
  I served alongside them in hard places around the world. It 
  was their skill at collection and analysis that often gave me 
  an edge as a negotiator: their partnership that helped make 
  me an effective Ambassador and their insights that helped me 
  make thoughtful choices on the most difficult policy issues..
I learned that good intelligence delivered with honesty and 
  integrity is America's first line of defense. I learned that 
  intelligence professionals have to tell policymakers what 
  they need to hear, even if they don't want to hear it. And I 
  learned that politics must stop where intelligence work 
  begins. That is exactly what President Biden expects of CIA. 
  It was the first thing he told me when he asked me to take on 
  this role. He said he wants the Agency to give it to him 
  straight, and I pledged to do just that and to defend those 
  who do the same..............................................
As the President has emphasized, all of America's national 
  security institutions will have to reimagine their roles on 
  an international landscape that is profoundly different from 
  the world I encountered as a young diplomat nearly 40 years 
  ago, or even the world as it was when I left government six 
  years ago....................................................
Today's landscape is increasingly complicated and competitive. 
  It's a world where familiar threats persist from terrorism 
  and nuclear proliferation to an aggressive Russia, a 
  provocative North Korea, and a hostile Iran..................
But it's also a world of new challenges in which climate change 
  and global health and security are taking a heavy toll on the 
  American people; in which cyber threats pose an ever greater 
  risk to our society; and in which an adversarial, predatory 
  Chinese leadership poses our biggest geopolitical test. If 
  confirmed, four crucial and interrelated priorities will 
  shape my approach to leading CIA: China, technology, people, 
  and partnerships.............................................
As President Biden has underscored, out-competing China will be 
  key to our national security in the decades ahead. That will 
  require a long-term, clear-eyed bipartisan strategy 
  underpinned by domestic renewal and solid intelligence. There 
  will be areas in which it will be in our mutual self-interest 
  to work with China, from climate change to nonproliferation. 
  And I am very mindful that Xi Jinping's China is not without 
  problems and frailties of its own. There are, however, a 
  growing number of areas in which Xi's China is a formidable 
  authoritarian adversary, methodically strengthening its 
  capabilities to steal intellectual property, repress its own 
  people, bully its neighbors, expand its global reach, and 
  build influence in American society..........................
For CIA, that will mean intensified focus and urgency, 
  continually strengthening its already impressive cadre of 
  China specialists, expanding its language skills, aligning 
  personnel and resource allocation for the long haul, and 
  employing a whole-of-agency approach to the operational and 
  analytical challenges of this crucial threat.................
Another priority intimately connected to competition with China 
  is technology. As all of you know as well as I do, the 
  revolution in technology and rapid advances in fields like 
  artificial intelligence are transforming the ways we live, 
  work, fight, and compete.....................................
CIA has a rich tradition of innovation and nothing will matter 
  more to our ability to remain the best intelligence service 
  in the world. CIA will need to relentlessly sharpen its 
  capabilities to understand how rivals use cyber and other 
  technological tools; anticipate, detect, and deter their use; 
  and keep an edge in developing them ourselves. If confirmed, 
  I'll have no higher priority than reinforcing CIA's greatest 
  asset, its people............................................
The work of CIA's men and women is often invisible to most 
  Americans. But I have served side-by-side with them, seeing 
  firsthand their courage, their professionalism, and their 
  sacrifices. I was privileged to be in the White House 
  Situation Room when CIA's brilliant work helped bring Osama 
  bin Laden to justice. But I also remember sadder and harder 
  days, the sorrow and pain after the tragic attack at Khost, 
  and quiet personal moments spent in front of the Agency's 
  memorial wall whose stars include friends with whom I served.
Honoring the sacrifice those stars represent means 
  strengthening a workforce worthy of the CIA's seal, one that 
  reflects the richness of our society and enables us to carry 
  out our global mission. That means working even harder to 
  enhance diversity, equity, and inclusion from entry-level to 
  senior ranks. It means working even harder to retain and 
  develop the Agency's extraordinary talent....................
Equipping them with the language skills, technical tools, 
  training, and tradecraft that they require. And it means 
  ensuring the health and well-being of colleagues and their 
  families through this awful pandemic and wherever and 
  whenever they face harm or risk..............................
Finally, if confirmed, I'll prioritize partnerships within the 
  Intelligence Community and across the world. I will work 
  closely with the Director of National Intelligence, my 
  longtime friend and colleague, Avril Haines, to make sure the 
  Agency's efforts fit seamlessly with her vision for 
  integrating the Intelligence Community. America's 
  partnerships and alliances are what set our country apart 
  from lonelier major powers like China and Russia.............
For CIA, intelligence partnerships are an increasingly 
  important means of amplifying our understanding and 
  influence. Investing in those liaison relationships has never 
  been more important. It's a task for which my whole career 
  has prepared me..............................................
No partnership will be more important to me than the one I hope 
  to build with all of you on this Committee. In my 
  conversations with each of you over the last few weeks, I 
  have been struck by your commitment to bipartisanship and 
  sense of shared purpose. I deeply respect your crucial 
  oversight role which allows the American people to have 
  confidence that the Agency is working faithfully on their 
  behalf and living up to our values...........................
If confirmed, I promise to do all I can to earn your trust and 
  to be a strong partner. I'll seek your advice as well as your 
  consent and I'll be accessible and honest, qualities I've 
  tried hard to demonstrate throughout a lifetime in public 
  service. I am deeply honored to be here today and I look 
  forward to your questions....................................
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman..............................
[The prepared statement of Ambassador Burns follows:]..........


	[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


Chairman Warner. Thank you, Ambassador Burns. And for planning 
  purposes, if any Members of the Committee wish to submit 
  questions for the record after today's hearing, please do so 
  by the close of business on Friday, February 26th............
We will be going through five-minute rounds....................
Can you speak with a little more specificity to how you can go 
  about restoring some of the morale of the workforce of the 
  CIA? You know ``morale'' is an ethereal term. Are there 
  measurement techniques or things that we should look to see 
  how the workforce is doing, feeling, operating, you know 
  three months, six months, a year in?.........................
Ambassador Burns. Well, Mr. Chairman, I think in many ways the 
  most important single thing is to reinforce--to what I hope 
  are my future colleagues in CIA, if I'm confirmed--that their 
  work matters more than ever, as I tried to describe in my 
  opening statement. That their expertise, their courage, their 
  sacrifices are respected.....................................
And that, as I promised President Biden, we will deliver 
  unvarnished intelligence, the best possible intelligence we 
  can gather, the most sophisticated all-source analysis, to 
  deliver it to policymakers without any hint of politics or 
  any policy agenda............................................
To speak truth to power just as you rightly emphasize in your 
  own opening comments, that's what President Biden expects of 
  me. That's what I will do to the very best of my ability and, 
  as I said, I will defend all of my colleagues who do exactly 
  the same thing. And I think that's what's crucially 
  important....................................................
Chairman Warner. I think the Committee will want to check in on 
  this on a fairly regular basis. I think we've heard a number 
  of concerns. A number of folks--professionals--were leaving. 
  We've got to stanch that flow and move forward...............
On that issue and related at least--and this has really been a 
  concern of Senator Collins, and of the whole Committee--we've 
  seen evidence now not just of Agency personnel, but State 
  Department personnel and others become victims of mysterious 
  attacks. It was for a while called the Havana Syndrome. And a 
  number of us have been quite concerned that we still don't 
  know the source of those attacks. We still don't potentially 
  have a full medical diagnosis................................
And even though we have put it into law on the last three intel 
  authorization bills, the ability for the CIA Director to 
  provide enhanced benefits to those individuals--the kind of 
  first-rate quality healthcare and compensation they need and 
  deserve--we're not sure that's really taking place. So, I 
  want you to speak to that....................................
I want to also get a commitment from you that CIA personnel who 
  may have suffered brain injury have the option of treatment 
  in our Nation's premier TBI facilities, including Walter Reed 
  and other facilities of the highest caliber. To date, 
  unfortunately that has not been the case.....................
Ambassador Burns. Well, Mr. Chairman, the first thing I'd say 
  is I very much admire your leadership, the leadership of the 
  Vice Chairman and Senator Collins, as well as other Members 
  of the Committee on these issues. Not only do I admire and 
  appreciate it, but I know it's deeply appreciated by the 
  women and men of the CIA.....................................
If I'm confirmed as Director of CIA, I will have no higher 
  priority than taking care of people, of colleagues and their 
  families. And I do commit to you that, if I'm confirmed, I 
  will make it an extraordinarily high priority to get to the 
  bottom of who's responsible for the attacks that you just 
  described, and to ensure that colleagues and their families 
  get the care that they deserve, including at the National 
  Institutes of Health and at Walter Reed. And I look forward 
  very much to working with all of you to ensure that that's 
  the case.....................................................
Chairman Warner. And the last question is this Committee, under 
  the leadership of Senator Burr and Senator Rubio, in many 
  ways I think carved out a role as the technology committee on 
  the Hill, and we really were the group that first raised the 
  concerns about China's technological advances. We were the 
  Committee that called into question and then tried to 
  formulate across government a 5G response....................
On this issue of technology advancement, as Senator Rubio 
  pointed out, China doesn't have the goal of competing with 
  us; they have the goal of beating us in technological 
  advancement. You may want to comment on this briefly, but 
  continuing CIA's role to monitor China's advancement in all 
  these technology fields is not simply a CIA directive. But we 
  really do think the Intelligence Community has a broader view 
  on this issue than any other part of our government..........
Ambassador Burns. No, it's hugely important, Mr. Chairman. And 
  as I tried to emphasize in my opening statement, that 
  connection between dealing with an adversarial China and 
  ensuring that we can continue to compete effectively in 
  technology is right at the top of my list of priorities, if 
  I'm confirmed................................................
And I do respect the role of this Committee. And I watched the 
  open hearing yesterday on SolarWinds, and it seemed to me to 
  be a classic illustration of the value of a serious committee 
  in looking at these issues. And I look forward very much to 
  working with all of you on that..............................
Chairman Warner. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador. Mr. Vice Chairman?.
Vice Chairman Rubio. Thank you, Mr. Chairman...................
Ambassador, in your written questions, you acknowledge that 
  China uses cultural and educational programs, things like the 
  Confucius Institutes and others, to try to influence U.S. 
  policy debates to spread pro-China propaganda. So, given this 
  acknowledgment, I wanted to focus a little bit on your time 
  as the president of the Carnegie Endowment for International 
  Peace........................................................
Now, Carnegie is involved with the China-United States Exchange 
  Foundation, an organization that you acknowledged in your 
  written questions and answers that is part of China's United 
  Front system, which is an effort to co-opt and neutralize 
  sources of potential opposition in part of their efforts to 
  encourage foreign countries to adopt positions and narratives 
  supportive of Beijing's preferred policies...................
And in this work at the Endowment, it's reported that in 2019 
  you invited 11 Congressional staffers on a trip to China. 
  They met with a professor who works for the Communist Party 
  Central Committee. They met with the president of another 
  front group for the Chinese Communist Party--a group that was 
  designated last October by the State Department as a group 
  that seeks to directly influence and actually--the quote is: 
  ``Sought to directly and malignly influence state and local 
  leaders in the United States.''..............................
And this group that you partnered with, the China-United States 
  Exchange Foundation, a congressionally-appointed commission, 
  in August 2018 said that they showed a clear intent to 
  influence policy toward China in the United States. So, given 
  your stated concerns about Chinese soft-power influence 
  efforts, why while you were at the helm, did Carnegie 
  Endowment for International Peace establish a relationship 
  with and accept funding from this group, this China-United 
  States Exchange Foundation?..................................
Ambassador Burns. Well, thanks, Senator Rubio, for the 
  question.....................................................
The first thing I'd emphasize is the Carnegie Endowment is a 
  proudly independent and transparent organization, and 
  scrupulous about ensuring that whatever financial support it 
  receives, whether it's from trustees or foundations, doesn't 
  in any way shape the content or the conclusions of scholarly 
  work at Carnegie. That's first...............................
Second, on the China-U.S. Exchange Foundation, this is a 
  relationship that I inherited when I became president of 
  Carnegie--and that I ended not long after I became president, 
  precisely for the concerns that you just described, because 
  we were increasingly worried about the expansion of Chinese 
  influence operations.........................................
Shortly after I ended that relationship, we began a program at 
  the Carnegie Endowment on countering foreign influence 
  operations, which was aimed mostly at China and Russia, and 
  was supported in part from a grant from the Global Engagement 
  Center at the State Department in the last Administration....
On the second issue, Senator Rubio, that you raised on the 
  congressional staff delegation: in 2019 we did partner with 
  the Aspen Institute, which as you know, for decades under the 
  leadership of Dan Glickman, former Congressman Dan Glickman, 
  has managed both Member and staff delegations to many 
  different parts of the world. This was a trip that included 
  senior staff members, both Republicans and Democrats, both 
  from the House and the Senate................................
It was fully approved in advance by the House Ethics Committee, 
  and in my view was an illustration of what an institution 
  like Carnegie should do, which is to provide congressional 
  staff members with an opportunity to engage directly with 
  Chinese counterparts and to express their concerns about 
  Chinese actions and malign behavior quite directly. So in 
  that sense, I think it was a good illustration of what a 
  nongovernmental institution like Carnegie working with the 
  Aspen Institute can do.......................................
But I share your concerns about foreign influence operations. 
  And as I said, we've tried to demonstrate in our work at 
  Carnegie over the time that I was president our appreciation 
  of that threat...............................................
Vice Chairman Rubio. My second and final question is about 
  Tsinghua University, which has been designated by the 
  Australian Strategic Policy Institute as a very high risk for 
  its level of defense research and alleged involvement in 
  cyber-attacks. Carnegie, while you were there, worked with 
  Tsinghua University to set up the Carnegie-Tsinghua Center in 
  Beijing, a center that features seven individuals who work at 
  the university as its guiding scholars, who have ties to the 
  Communist Party..............................................
Two of the Center's senior fellows serve in senior Chinese 
  Communist Party roles. And the Center partnered with the 
  Center for China and Globalization, a Beijing think tank 
  associated and linked to the Communist Party--whose president 
  is linked to the Communist Party's efforts via the--he plays 
  a prominent role with the United Front, which is a group that 
  Xi Jinping has called China's secret weapon..................
I'm curious. What conditions, restrictions did the Chinese 
  impose in order for this Center to be set up?................
Ambassador Burns. Well, Senator Rubio, you're right. I mean, 
  the Center that Carnegie operates in Beijing--and has for 
  more than a decade--is a partnership with Tsinghua 
  University. During my time as president, I was 
  extraordinarily careful to ensure that the arrangements that 
  we had as a nongovernmental organization operating there 
  allowed us to continue to do independent work and that has 
  been the case over the last six years........................
I have also made clear to my colleagues at Carnegie that the 
  moment we were constrained in doing that independent work, we 
  would cease operations because our point is not simply to 
  exist. Carnegie's point is not to exist in centers in 
  different parts of the world. It is to do high-quality, 
  independent work. When that becomes impossible or our 
  scholars are self-censoring, then that is the moment at which 
  it becomes no longer feasible to operate there...............
Vice Chairman Rubio. Thank you.................................
Chairman Warner. Senator Feinstein?............................
Senator Feinstein. Thanks Mr. Chairman.........................
Over a decade ago, Mr. Burns, the CIA engaged in the use of 
  waterboarding and other so-called enhanced interrogation 
  techniques during interrogations. You provided 
  straightforward answers in the pre-hearing questions, and I 
  appreciate that, but I want to cover this topic because I 
  believe it remains a priority to ensure that we never return 
  to this......................................................
So let me ask you the same types of questions that I asked 
  Directors Coats, Pompeo, and Haspel when they were before us.
Do you agree that current law prohibits any interrogation 
  techniques not allowed by the United States Army Field Manual 
  on interrogation?............................................
Ambassador Burns. Senator Feinstein, it is good to see you.....
I believe that waterboarding does constitute torture under the 
  law. As you well know, this issue of the enhanced 
  interrogation techniques has been a settled matter for more 
  than a decade. They were prohibited by President Obama in 
  2009; and then under the leadership of Senator McCain, the 
  Congress enshrined this in legislation to ensure that the 
  only permissible interrogation methods were those allowed in 
  the Army Field Manual........................................
I think it's fair to say we all learned some very hard lessons 
  in the period after 9/11. It is very important--it is crucial 
  to be mindful of those lessons and to move forward. And so 
  it's in that spirit that I also share Director Haines's view 
  that we should not take actions against or prejudice the 
  careers of officers who may have worked in those programs at 
  a time when they were operating under Department of Justice 
  guidelines and at the direction of the President.............
So to answer your question specifically, again, I am certainly 
  committed to what the law provides right now and to ensuring 
  that those enhanced interrogation methods are never again 
  used by CIA. They certainly will not be under my leadership, 
  if I am confirmed............................................
Senator Feinstein. Well, thank you very much for that answer. 
  It certainly was fulsome and I greatly respect the fact that 
  you came forward with it in the way in which you did.........
As noted in the Intelligence Community's statement for the 
  record in 2019 and our most recent worldwide threats 
  assessment hearing, China has the ability to launch 
  cyberattacks that cause localized temporary disruptive 
  effects on critical infrastructure, natural gas pipelines, 
  for days or weeks; and Russia has the ability to execute 
  cyberattacks in the United States that generate localized 
  temporary disruptive effects on critical infrastructure, 
  electrical distribution networks, for at least few hours, and 
  so on. I am concerned by this and want to know how we address 
  this threat..................................................
So here's the question.........................................
What do you believe is the appropriate role for the CIA in 
  diminishing these types of cyber threats to our critical 
  infrastructure? And what else could the CIA be doing to help 
  ensure the integrity of national cyber security?.............
Ambassador Burns. Well, thanks, Senator. As the hearing that 
  this Committee conducted yesterday underscored, the 
  SolarWinds attack, that cyberattack, was a very harsh wake-up 
  call I think for all of us about the vulnerabilities of 
  supply chains and critical infrastructure in both the private 
  sector and the public sector in this country. And we have 
  seen in recent years how both the Chinese leadership as well 
  as the Russian leadership have an aggressive determination to 
  take advantage of those vulnerabilities......................
I first saw this when I was Ambassador in Moscow in 2007, and 
  the Russians staged--Vladimir Putin's Russia staged--a very 
  determined cyberattack on Estonia, a small NATO ally of the 
  United States................................................
So if this is a harsh wake-up call, then I think it's essential 
  for the CIA in particular to work even harder to develop our 
  capabilities to help detect these kind of attacks when they 
  come from external players, from foreign players, which is 
  the responsibility of the CIA--to help attribute those. 
  Because without attribution, it is very difficult to deter 
  future attacks, continue to develop our own technological and 
  cyber capabilities as a part of that potential deterrence....
And then at the same time to deepen partnerships across the 
  Intelligence Community with domestic agencies like FBI and 
  the Department of Homeland Security; with the private sector, 
  where there is a shared interest in helping to shore up these 
  vulnerabilities in critical infrastructure; and then finally 
  and not least, with foreign partners as well, many of whom, 
  as I mentioned in the case of Estonia, have faced these same 
  kind of threats. Where we can learn from their experience and 
  working together. Not only build better defenses, but also 
  begin to build leverage against adversaries, and over time, I 
  have been convinced, work with like-minded countries, allies, 
  and partners not only to build leverage but to build rules of 
  the road that help protect critical infrastructure--that help 
  make clear international understandings that certain kinds of 
  critical infrastructure are off-limits for those kind of 
  cyberattacks.................................................
That will take time, it will take enormous effort, but I think 
  the CIA and intelligence can be an important part of that 
  effort.......................................................
Senator Feinstein. Thank you very much. Thanks, Mr. Chairman...
Chairman Warner. Senator Burr?.................................
Senator Burr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ambassador, welcome.....
Ambassador Burns. Good to see you, Sir.........................
Senator Burr. Hard to believe that we have known each other for 
  over a quarter-century. I'm sure as you drove to the Hill 
  today it reminded you of some of the battle zones you have 
  served in. You have not been given vacation spots at your 
  time at the State Department and I think this Committee is 
  grateful to you for your service up until now and, more 
  importantly, for what you are about to embark on.............
Bill, as you know it is difficult for Federal agencies to 
  recruit talent today. It is particularly difficult in an 
  agency that requires security clearances. Do you have any 
  idea today how you might want to restructure the recruitment 
  process so that you can begin to onboard people earlier?.....
It is difficult to recruit out of a university or graduate 
  school and say: we've got a job for you but in a year after 
  you have cleared security clearance..........................
Do you see a need to revamp that in a way that allows you to 
  bring that talent in?........................................
Ambassador Burns. Senator Burr, yes I do, and I have seen 
  through my own experience at another agency at the State 
  Department the price that you pay when security clearance 
  processes drag on and on. You lose good people; it becomes 
  very difficult to recruit the kind of workforce, particularly 
  a diverse workforce, that CIA requires to be effective. And 
  so one of my high priorities, if I am confirmed, will be to 
  take a hard look at that issue...............................
I know work has gone on in the past on this. I know previous 
  Directors have worked hard at this issue, but I agree with 
  you on its significance, and you can't hope to have effective 
  recruitment processes unless we find a way to streamline that 
  process......................................................
Senator Burr. Well, the Chairman has been outspoken on it, and 
  I am sure he will be dogged as it relates to the way forward.
Ambassador, you speak three languages. Talk to us about how you 
  see language requirements within the Agency going forward. Is 
  it a priority?...............................................
Ambassador Burns. It has to be a priority, Senator. I know it 
  was a priority for Gina Haspel as well, and I greatly respect 
  that.........................................................
Human intelligence cuts right to the core of CIA's unique role 
  and responsibilities and a part of gathering that human 
  intelligence which complements technical means that CIA and 
  other parts of the Intelligence Community have made enormous 
  progress on in recent years. But they are not a substitute 
  for human intelligence. A part of that collection effort has 
  to require, does require, a facility in foreign languages....
And so, as I discussed when I was talking about the high 
  priority that I would attach to China if I'm confirmed as 
  Director, a part of that intelligence--a part of that 
  priority--requires expanding the number of Mandarin language 
  speakers in CIA and making that a priority and continuing to 
  work to expand other hard language facility at the Agency. 
  It's crucially important.....................................
Senator Burr. You've heard and you will hear Members on this 
  Committee all talk about technology. And I think most of us 
  would agree that the United States is behind as it relates to 
  our ability to adapt new technologies. We're slow; we fight 
  it...........................................................
The reason that many of our adversaries have made the gains 
  that they have is because of their willingness to accept 
  technology, to use technology, to leverage that against what 
  we built.....................................................
How do you intend to use technology both in the workforce and 
  in the tradecraft to make sure that we fully take advantage 
  of what I think is the greatest innovative country in the 
  world?.......................................................
Ambassador Burns. Well, Senator, I think you're exactly right. 
  CIA has a rich history of innovation and agility and 
  technology, but if I'm confirmed, I recognize that we're 
  going to have to work even harder to be innovative and to be 
  agile........................................................
You mentioned tradecraft, one of the big challenges today in 
  operational tradecraft is ubiquitous technical surveillance, 
  the capacity of a number of our adversaries to make it much 
  more complicated to conduct traditional tradecraft. And so 
  the Agency, like so many other parts of the U.S. Government, 
  is going to have to adapt to that kind of a challenge. I'm 
  entirely confident that the women and men of CIA are capable 
  of that......................................................
It's also going to require--Senator, this is the one point I 
  would add--greater effort to work with the private sector as 
  well so that we cannot only keep pace with technological 
  progress, but get out ahead of it. That's exactly what our 
  adversaries are doing and that's what I think we need to put 
  even greater effort into as well.............................
Senator Burr. Ambassador, let me remind you that the two 
  introductions that were made for you, one thing they both 
  highlighted, the need for the partnership with this Committee 
  and with the CIA. I know you embrace that fully and for that, 
  we're grateful. I look forward to your confirmation..........
Ambassador Burns. Thank you, Sir. I look forward to it as well.
Senator Burr. Thank you........................................
Chairman Warner. Senator Wyden.................................
Senator Wyden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.........................
Mr. Ambassador, at the risk of this becoming a full-fledged 
  bouquet-tossing contest, I want to just register a couple of 
  areas that you've been involved in that are especially 
  important to me. Your track record on human rights is, I 
  think, a real attribute for this job and of course your 
  experience at the State Department. It is rare that we see 
  people with that kind of background. So, we're very 
  appreciative of having you here..............................
Let me start--and I think we touched on it--with respect to 
  this matter of correcting false statements. If you or any 
  other CIA officials says something publicly that is 
  inaccurate, will you correct the public record?..............
Ambassador Burns. Well, Senator, as we discussed, I believe 
  it's a serious responsibility. If I'm confirmed as CIA 
  Director--if in the case of a policymaker making a statement 
  that I judge later to be at variance with intelligence that 
  we provided, to work with that policymaker to try to correct 
  that statement and to get it right. I think, as you well 
  know, Senator, that cuts right to the core of building 
  credibility and building trust, which are the foundations, I 
  think, for sound policy choices as well. So, I would 
  certainly take that very seriously in doing everything I can 
  to correct the record........................................
Senator Wyden. Very good.......................................
My second question deals with this question of technology and 
  I'm glad that you staked out the ground that'll be a priority 
  for you. A major technology challenge will be to protect 
  sources and methods while not hiding the legal 
  interpretations that are used to conduct operations. And I'm 
  especially troubled by situations in which the government 
  goes around the courts and buys Americans private records 
  from data brokers, people who are basically unregulated. It's 
  one of the sleaziest operations I know of....................
And I'm actually introducing legislation, ``The Fourth 
  Amendment Is Not for Sale Act,'' here very shortly. We talked 
  about this with Director Haines at her confirmation process, 
  and I would like to ask you whether you would make public the 
  circumstances under which the Intelligence Community--excuse 
  me: under which the CIA as part of the Intelligence Community 
  purchases commercially available information and the legal 
  basis for doing so?..........................................
Ambassador Burns. Yes, Senator, I share Director Haines's view 
  that it would be very valuable to lay out a framework that 
  makes clear to the American people the guidelines and the 
  legal boundaries within which we would undertake those 
  activities. So, I'm a strong believer in transparency and I 
  share Director Haines's commitment...........................
Senator Wyden. Now, with respect to accountability: in 2013, 
  the CIA acknowledged that it had fallen short in holding 
  people accountable for failures associated with the 
  management of the torture program. And I want to use my words 
  carefully here because this has been a subject of some 
  debate.......................................................
So, my question is: the CIA then recommended, and I believe 
  what the discussion was about was going forward, that it 
  broadened accountability reviews to consider systemic 
  problems and officers responsible for those systemic 
  problems, as well as management failures. So, this was a 
  recommendation of a long time ago, 2013......................
Do you agree with the CIA's 2013 recommendation and will you 
  implement it so that, going forward, everybody is clear about 
  the fact that it will be followed?...........................
Ambassador Burns. I will, Senator..............................
I attach great importance to accountability. I will certainly 
  follow-through on that if I'm confirmed as Director. I do 
  think it's important in conducting accountability review 
  processes to also look at ways in which you can address 
  systemic problems as well....................................
Senator Wyden. I think that's constructive and I want to work 
  with you on the timeline. This will be something we'll talk 
  about on another occasion; but since it was recommended in 
  2013, that's been a long time. We've got to get it done......
Last question is: over the years, the CIA has at times impeded 
  congressional oversight by limiting briefings to the so-
  called ``Gang of Eight,'' limiting staff access to important 
  programs and operations, and failing to inform the Committee 
  at all. Will you conduct a thorough review of where the CIA 
  has engaged in any of these practices and report back to the 
  full Committee so that all of us--every Member--will know how 
  access can be expanded?......................................
Ambassador Burns. Well, Senator, if I'm confirmed, I certainly 
  will be committed to trying to provide as much information as 
  possible to the broader Committee on sensitive operations and 
  collection. And I do commit to reviewing the practices of my 
  predecessors with regard to what information was restricted 
  to Gang of Eight and to working with all of you on this 
  Committee on that issue......................................
Senator Wyden. Good. I just want to tell my colleagues I'll be 
  supporting Ambassador Burns and look forward to working with 
  him..........................................................
Chairman Warner. Senator Collins...............................
Senator Collins. Thank you.....................................
Ambassador Burns, welcome......................................
Ambassador Burns. Thank you....................................
Senator Collins. I first want to express my appreciation to you 
  for engaging in an extensive conversation with me about the 
  CIA officials who have been the subject of these terrible 
  attacks that have left them with, in some cases, permanent 
  traumatic brain injuries.....................................
And I was very glad that both the Chairman and the Vice 
  Chairman brought up this issue to you. I know that we have 
  your firm commitment to ensure that those who have been 
  injured receive the best possible--best possible--medical 
  care without going through hassles and roadblocks. And I hope 
  we also have your commitment to focus on identifying the 
  perpetrator of these heinous attacks.........................
Ambassador Burns. Senator, I very much appreciated our earlier 
  conversations on these issues as well. And I just reemphasize 
  my commitment on both of those counts to doing everything I 
  can, if I'm confirmed as Director, to help get to the bottom 
  of who's responsible for those attacks and second----........
Chairman Warner. Ambassador Burns, could you scoot your mic a 
  little bit closer?...........................................
Ambassador Burns. Sure, is that better?........................
Chairman Warner. Yes...........................................
Ambassador Burns.--and commit not only to trying to get to the 
  bottom of who's responsible, but also to ensure that my 
  future colleagues get the care that they and their families 
  deserve, whether it's at Walter Reed or National Institute of 
  Health or elsewhere. And I look forward very much to working 
  with you on those issues.....................................
And I know there are a range of other issues affecting the care 
  and well-being of my future colleagues, those who, for 
  example, have served as a paramilitary officers over the 
  course of recent years and have made enormous sacrifices in 
  the last two decades who also face genuine health challenges. 
  And I also commit to trying to ensure that they get the best 
  care possible as well........................................
Senator Collins. Thank you.....................................
In the questions for the record, you were asked about the 
  Confucius Institutes that are on some of our college 
  campuses. And I was pleased to see that you agree that the 
  Chinese Communist Party uses these institutes as an 
  instrument for propaganda....................................
Two questions. First, could you elaborate on how the Chinese 
  Communist Party uses these Confucius Institutes to advance 
  its goals? And second, what would be your advice to any 
  college campus that is still hosting a Confucius Institute?..
Ambassador Burns. Senator, thanks for the question.............
I think, you know, what the Confucius Institutes do--and I'm no 
  expert on them--is to promote a narrative of Xi Jinping's 
  China which is designed to build sympathy for what is, in my 
  view, a quite aggressive leadership which has engaged in 
  conduct and conducted an adversarial approach to relations 
  with the United States. So, in that sense, that particular 
  dimension of foreign influence operations constitutes a 
  genuine risk.................................................
And so, my advice for any institutions in the United States, 
  including academic institutions, is to be extraordinarily 
  careful of what the motives are for a variety of institutions 
  like that and to be very careful in engaging them............
Senator Collins. Would you recommend that they shut them down?.
Ambassador Burns. I mean, if I were a president of a college or 
  university and had a Confucius Institute, that's certainly 
  what I would do..............................................
Senator Collins. Thank you.....................................
Chairman Warner. Senator Heinrich?.............................
Senator Heinrich Thank you, Chairman. Welcome, Ambassador......
Ambassador Burns. Hi, Senator..................................
Senator Heinrich. Thanks for the time that we were able to 
  connect earlier..............................................
You've been a customer of the CIA's intelligence for many years 
  in your various roles at state, so you're no stranger to the 
  Agency, to the value that it brings. But if you're confirmed, 
  you'll be the first--and it looks like you're off to a good 
  start, by the way--but you'll be the first career diplomat to 
  serve as Director of the Agency..............................
So, you'll be in a really good position to help ensure that 
  good intelligence is in the service of good policy...........
So, talk to us a little about, at the 30,000-foot level, just 
  how you intend to leverage your diplomatic experience in this 
  new role that is very different from what you did before.....
Ambassador Burns. Well, thanks very much, Senator. And I 
  enjoyed our earlier conversation as well. As you said, I've 
  had long experience both in the field and in senior 
  policymaking jobs in Washington in working with the CIA, and 
  I absolutely agree with you that good intelligence delivered 
  with honesty and integrity is the critical foundation for 
  sound policy choices.........................................
I had a very positive experience as a chief of mission working 
  overseas, working with intelligence colleagues. They 
  understood that, as the chief of mission, I was the 
  President's representative on the ground. I led country 
  teams, which in the case, for example, Moscow when I was 
  Ambassador there from 2005-2008, was still one of our biggest 
  embassies in the world. There were more than two dozen 
  agencies in that country team................................
So, they understood--CIA station chief did--their obligation to 
  keep me fully and currently informed. In return, I respected 
  their professionalism and trusted it, and I didn't 
  micromanage. I can't remember one instance when I was a chief 
  of mission either in Moscow or in Jordan where we had to 
  elevate an issue because we had a difference to Washington...
Now, when I was Deputy Secretary of State, there were several 
  instances, not a large number, where differences between a 
  chief of mission and a chief of station were raised to my 
  level. And I was able to work out with my counterpart, the 
  Deputy Director of CIA, in virtually all of those instances a 
  reasonable approach. I can count on less than one hand the 
  number of times we had to elevate that even higher...........
So, I raise that only because I think there's no substitute in 
  the end for good leadership and professionalism and trust in 
  making that relationship work, and in understanding the 
  critical role of unvarnished intelligence in the policymaking 
  process......................................................
Senator Heinrich. I think that's a helpful answer in setting up 
  my next question as well, which is this is a remarkable 
  agency. It has some of the most talented people in service to 
  our country of any agency in existence. But as I mentioned in 
  our recent conversation, when things do get awry, sometimes 
  it is because of things that are inherent to the culture of 
  the Agency...................................................
It can be resistant to change, resistant to transparency, not 
  always welcoming of outsiders. And you told me you're 
  familiar with this concern from your time working with the 
  Agency overseas..............................................
I'm just curious. If you're confirmed, how would you approach, 
  especially as an outsider, the cultural challenges that can 
  be inherent in an agency like this?..........................
Ambassador Burns. Well, I'm certainly familiar with the 
  cultural identity of different institutions. I mean, my old 
  institution, the State Department, has its own share of 
  tribalism and cultural challenges to be overcome. It's not a 
  perfect institution either...................................
I have enormous respect for career public servants, whether 
  it's at state--or now I hope at CIA. And, you know, you have 
  to understand what drives different professionals in that 
  organization. If you're a case officer overseas, that 
  requires an enormous amount of professional skill and courage 
  and creativity as well, and that's a huge asset for the 
  promotion of American interests around the world. Analysts at 
  CIA are noted for their honesty, for their willingness to 
  speak truth to power.........................................
And that's why it's so essential for a Director to have their 
  backs and to defend them when they do that, and to make sure 
  that we're trying to get the best out of all of those 
  different roles at the Agency to keep pace with technological 
  change as well, which is another of the great assets, I 
  think, of CIA, and to be able to integrate all of those 
  skills and all of those cultures in a way that serves the 
  national interest. And that's what I'll be determined to do..
Chairman Warner. Senator Blunt?................................
Senator Blunt. Thank you, Chairman. And thank you, Senator 
  Heinrich. I was going to cover exactly those two topics, 
  understanding the building. I did read in some of the 
  articles on this the CIA agents you had worked with over the 
  years were incredibly confident that as a consumer of this 
  information you'd bring a lot to the job.....................
I think Robert Richer said: Burns knows the building. And I 
  think your response to Senator Heinrich suggests that you've 
  thought more about the conversation we had about the 
  importance of being engaged in that culture in an imminent 
  way..........................................................
I'm wondering, Ambassador, as maybe the person who's been the 
  biggest consumer of CIA assistance and information who would 
  have ever had this job, how would you think that would impact 
  you structuring how the product comes out and how the Agency 
  works as it relates to thinking about the real ultimate goal 
  of the information is not for the CIA to make any decision, 
  but to get it to the consumer in a way that an ambassador or 
  somebody in the administration or a Member of Congress can 
  fully understand the information in the best possible way?...
Ambassador Burns. Thanks so much, Senator, because it cuts 
  right to the core of what my responsibilities will be if I'm 
  confirmed. You know, as a senior policymaker and consumer of 
  intelligence from the CIA, what mattered most to me was that 
  I got their honest judgment on issues, even when it might be 
  inconvenient or unwelcome in some ways because it just 
  complicated what was an already complicated set of policy 
  choices......................................................
But what I learned, sometimes the hard way over my career, is 
  that unless you're getting unvarnished intelligence without a 
  hint of politics or policy agenda, it becomes impossible to 
  have an effective policy process. You also want to get it as 
  quickly as you can, with regard, for example, to issues of 
  attribution, whether there is a cyber-threat like the one the 
  Committee was discussing yesterday, being able to get to the 
  bottom of that is absolutely crucial to trying to sort 
  through policy choices as well...............................
So I think that the better the connection, in a way, between 
  policymakers who understand what it takes to produce high-
  quality intelligence and produce it in a timely way, and 
  intelligence professionals who understand what policymakers 
  are wrestling with as they try to sort through what are 
  almost inevitably a set of unappealing choices--I think that 
  becomes crucial to an effective process......................
Senator Blunt. I think this has already come up before but I 
  think you want to be sure that this Committee becomes an 
  informed ally in the effort to be sure that the artificial 
  intelligence, the machine learning helps you, is adequate to 
  get things narrowed down to where an individual should be 
  looking at them..............................................
There is more and more information all of the time and how you 
  get that information to the point where you can in your very 
  best possible way analyze it is going to be, I think, 
  increasingly important.......................................
You know, we first met when you were in Moscow and the 
  Ambassador there. How do you think your understanding of 
  Moscow, of Russia, of Putin is going to be helpful as you 
  advise both this Committee and the President?................
Ambassador Burns. Well, thanks, Senator Blunt and I remember 
  fondly our meeting now almost 15 years ago, I think, in 
  Moscow. You know most of my white hair came from my service 
  in Russia over the years, and in particular in dealing with 
  Vladimir Putin's Russia......................................
What I have learned is that it is always a mistake to 
  underestimate Putin's Russia; that while Russia may be in 
  many ways a declining power, it can be at least as disruptive 
  under Putin's leadership as rising powers like China. And so 
  we have to be quite cold-eyed in our view of how those 
  threats can emerge...........................................
And what I have also learned, even though I will set aside my 
  former policymaker role, is that in dealing with those 
  threats, responding to them and deterring them, firmness and 
  consistency is hugely important. And it's also very important 
  to work to the maximum extent possible with allies and 
  partners.....................................................
We have more effect sometimes on Putin's calculus when he sees 
  responses coming--firm responses coming--not just from the 
  United States but from our European allies and others as 
  well. So it pays off to work hard at widening that circle of 
  countries who are going to push back.........................
Senator Blunt. Well thank you, Ambassador. I look forward to 
  supporting your nomination and to the relationship when you 
  are confirmed that you will have with this Committee, which 
  is incredibly important for us and I hope it turns out to be 
  equally important for you....................................
Ambassador Burns. I look forward to it, Senator. Thank you.....
Senator Blunt. Thank you, Chairman.............................
Chairman Warner. Senator King on WebEx.........................
Senator King. Mr. Ambassador, welcome to the Committee.........
Ambassador Burns. Hi, Senator..................................
Senator King. It's great to be with you and I realized when you 
  were being introduced today that you and I had something in 
  common. Both of us took the Foreign Service exam some decades 
  ago, the only difference was that you passed and I didn't. 
  But we won't dwell on that, but I appreciate having you here.
There's been a lot of talk today, rightly so, about truth to 
  power. And sometimes that sounds too easy and my concern is 
  it's more subtle than somebody mendaciously doctoring 
  intelligence or changing it. It's human nature to want to 
  tell the boss what they want to hear.........................
And so the question is: how do we build a structure to be sure 
  that that is the ongoing policy and that we don't slip into a 
  kind of a comfortable relationship with the President or this 
  Committee or the Secretary of Defense where it is more of an 
  unconscious process but the result is the same: biased 
  intelligence that will undermine good decision-making?.......
Give me some thoughts on that, please..........................
Ambassador Burns. Well, Senator King, it is good to see you and 
  I think you are absolutely right. Speaking truth to power has 
  to be more than a slogan and it is often easier said than 
  done. You know, I think the tone gets set at the top.........
I have known President Biden for a quarter century and have 
  great respect for him and when he told me--literally almost 
  the first thing he said when he asked me to take on this 
  role--that he expected me and CIA to deliver intelligence to 
  him straight. I know that he meant it and I think setting 
  that tone at the top is crucially important..................
I know it can become difficult in the press of crises and 
  policymaking to lose sight of the importance of delivering 
  unadulterated intelligence judgments, and it's important to 
  remain mindful of that over time and be reminded of it as I 
  know all of you on this Committee will remind me.............
All I can say is that I am acutely aware of the importance of 
  playing that role. I know it's a different role than the one 
  I have played in the past as a policymaker, as an ambassador 
  overseas. But I look forward to it because I do understand 
  from those perspectives how crucial it is to have 
  intelligence, the best possible intelligence that CIA can 
  collect, delivered with honesty and integrity. And that is 
  what I intend to do..........................................
Senator King. In order to effectuate that I hope that you will 
  provide strong support to the ombudsman program, to the 
  analytical integrity program that is ongoing so that the 
  commitment you have from the President extends throughout the 
  Agency.......................................................
To followup, in your memoir in 2019 you said that your greatest 
  professional regret was your failure to effectively 
  communicate your concerns prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq. 
  It seems to me that is an example of what exactly we are 
  talking about................................................
Share that experience, if you will.............................
Ambassador Burns. Sure. Well, first, Senator, I do agree with 
  you on the important role that the ombudsman plays. And if I 
  am confirmed as Director, I will do everything I can to 
  defend and strengthen that role because it does give analysts 
  an opportunity if they have concerns about pressures or 
  politicization to raise them as well.........................
I tried to write honestly in the memoir that I published a 
  couple of years ago about my experience when I was serving as 
  the head of the Near East Bureau in the State Department for 
  Colin Powell, a leader for whom I have enormous respect, in 
  the run-up to the Iraq War. And what I tried to do along with 
  my colleagues was to be honest about concerns that we had 
  about how complicated the day-after in Iraq would be, even if 
  the U.S. military successfully overthrew Saddam Hussein--
  which I didn't doubt would be the case.......................
A couple of colleagues of mine and I, Ryan Crocker, who later 
  became U.S. Ambassador in the hardest places around the 
  world, and David Pierce wrote a memo in the summer of 2002 to 
  Secretary Powell which we entitled ``The Perfect Storm.'' We 
  tried, imperfectly, to lay out our concerns about everything 
  that could go wrong in the run-up to the war in Iraq and on 
  the days after...............................................
It was imperfect. We got it about half right and half wrong in 
  terms of many of the problems we tried to identify. But I 
  mention it only because it was an honest effort to express 
  our concerns. And I think that is what is incumbent--whether 
  you are in a policymaking role as I was then at the State 
  Department or in a senior intelligence role--is to be 
  straightforward about your concerns, because without that, 
  policy choices suffer........................................
Senator King. Exactly. Thank you. Well thank you Mr. Ambassador 
  and I also will join my colleagues. I look forward to working 
  with you. The relationship with this Committee is very 
  important because, separately from all other agencies, most 
  other agencies in the U.S. Government, nobody is watching the 
  CIA except us; and therefore, you have got to be as open as 
  possible with us so that we can meet our responsibility to 
  the American people to be sure that this secret 
  organization--which is sort of an anomaly in a democracy--is 
  being overseen and supervised by elected representatives. So 
  I look forward to working with you...........................
Thank you Mr. Chairman. I yield back...........................
Ambassador Burns. I do, too, Senator King......................
Chairman Warner. I just want to make clear for Members, the 
  procedures we are operating with today I know it's a little 
  different than the past. We are doing questions in order of 
  seniority among those present when the hearing was gaveled to 
  order........................................................
Senator Cornyn?................................................
Senator Cornyn. Mr. Ambassador, thank you for saying yes to 
  President Biden and congratulations. And again, thank you for 
  assuming this important role. I can't think of anybody that 
  has the breadth of experience that you have had in the world, 
  which leads me just to--I am just kind of curious. I know you 
  have been exposed to a lot of foreign intelligence services 
  over your 34 years or so in the Foreign Service..............
Are there other intelligence services around the world--any of 
  them that sort of stand out as having what you believe would 
  be commendable organizations or operations or structures that 
  are something the U.S. Government ought to consider in terms 
  of structuring, organizing, or operating our intelligence 
  services?....................................................
Ambassador Burns. Well, I think there are a number of 
  intelligence services, especially amongst our allies and 
  partners, that I've admired over the years. Again, I've been 
  looking at it from the perspective of a diplomat. Certainly, 
  British intelligence service, the French, some of our closest 
  European allies, I think, are first rate partners............
Certainly the Israeli intelligence services I've known over the 
  years are extremely capable and have also, I think, worked 
  hard on the technology issue that we were discussing before, 
  which is extremely important.................................
We've also had intelligence services who are close partners in 
  the war on terrorism over the last 20 years, whose 
  capabilities, I think, at least in my experience, have been 
  enhanced over recent years, sometimes because of the 
  cooperation with U.S. intelligence services. And that's going 
  to be extremely important moving forward.....................
So, I think there's something we could learn from those 
  intelligence services. And we also have to pay very careful 
  attention to the capabilities of our adversaries as well, 
  whether it's the Russian intelligence services, which I've 
  had experience with over the years, or Chinese intelligence 
  services, as well............................................
It's important not to underestimate them. They're putting a 
  great deal of effort into technological development and we 
  see that on the part of smaller adversarial intelligence 
  services, whether it's the Iranians or others as well. So, 
  it's important not to underestimate their capabilities--and 
  learn where we can...........................................
Senator Cornyn. On another topic, one of the things we learned 
  from this pandemic is our vulnerability to supply chains from 
  overseas. And I think you and I may have talked a little bit 
  about my interest--and Chairman Warner and actually Senator 
  Cotton and the whole Congress, really, now--in reassuring our 
  ability to manufacture the most sophisticated semiconductors.
China, I understand, is building about 16 fabs, while the 
  Taiwan semiconductor is planning on building one in Arizona. 
  But we need to approach, I think, some of these national 
  security challenges we have with China in a different way....
What I mean by that is, we're so ossified and stove-piped here 
  in Congress in terms of the way we do things. Let's say the 
  appropriations process came to providing some sort of 
  financial incentive for the development of some technology 
  like--well, like a semiconductor fab. That doesn't quite fit 
  very well into our structure of appropriations and budget 
  caps and subcommittee appropriations and the like............
But I wish you would work with us and give some thought, not 
  only to what those vulnerabilities are and how we rack them 
  and stack them and address them in terms of the priorities 
  and the vulnerability that currently exists, but help us find 
  ways to perhaps modify, change, reform, or just adapt to the 
  new competition we have with China, where they're investing 
  billions of dollars in everything from 5G to AI to quantum 
  computing and others. And we can't afford to let them win....
Will you commit to working with us on the challenge?...........
Ambassador Burns. I certainly will, Senator. And I do admire 
  the work that you and Senator Cotton and others have done 
  over the course of recent months and years to highlight that 
  problem, supply chain vulnerability..........................
Semiconductors, as you mentioned, is a classic illustration of 
  that as well. And not only do I look forward to working with 
  you on those issues, but I promise it'll be high priority at 
  CIA if I'm confirmed, to understand from the perspective we 
  bring from abroad the ways in which some of our adversaries 
  and rivals can take advantage of those vulnerabilities. And 
  then, through intelligence partnerships with some of our 
  allies and partners, to look at ways in which we can 
  coordinate efforts to shore up supply chains as well because 
  it's not a vulnerability that's unique to the United States, 
  as you well know, Senator. So, I'll look forward very much to 
  working with you on that.....................................
Senator Cornyn. If the Chairman will indulge me and let me just 
  ask one final question.......................................
Chairman Warner. A short question because----..................
Senator Cornyn. On nuclear proliferation.......................
Ambassador Burns. Yes, Sir.....................................
Senator Cornyn. Do you think Iran can ever be trusted with a 
  nuclear weapon?..............................................
Ambassador Burns. No, Sir. No, I think it's absolutely 
  important for the United States to continue to do everything 
  we can to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon......
Senator Cornyn. Thank you very much............................
Chairman Warner. Senator Bennet................................
Senator Bennet. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ambassador, 
  for your willingness to serve. We are very, very grateful 
  that you're coming back......................................
You had mentioned that enhanced competition with an 
  increasingly threatening Chinese Communist Party constitutes 
  one of our greatest long-term challenges. As Chairman Warner 
  said, the Committee has been closely tracking China's 
  assertive moves from aggressive investments in port 
  infrastructure on some of the world's most strategic coasts 
  to exportation of illiberal surveillance regimes to 
  investments intended to put our advantages in space at risk..
In addition to China, you listed off, I think, nuclear 
  proliferation, climate, global health, technology as things 
  where we need a long-term--you said, I think, a long-term, 
  clear-eyed approach. And you have worked in these--in 
  countries with authoritarian regimes. We obviously are a 
  democracy....................................................
It was a poignant, I think, to see those two luminaries 
  introduce you this morning as a reminder of the time when 
  people actually could find a way to work together in this 
  democracy. And I wanted to ask you your thoughts about how 
  you, as the Director of the CIA, could elevate the view a 
  little bit here to make sure that we're looking out 10 years 
  and 20 years instead of just between the commercial breaks on 
  the cable television at night................................
How do we, as a democracy, competing in a world with 
  totalitarian societies, seize an opportunity here to actually 
  compete and win and succeed? I'd just be interested in your 
  perspective about how--......................................
Ambassador Burns. Sure.........................................
Senator Bennet. How you can help us elevate our view?..........
Ambassador Burns. Well, Senator, first, I think it is important 
  to approach all of those formidable challenges you just 
  described with a sense of confidence because, while I 
  recognize that the international landscape is changing fast, 
  we're in a period of profound transformation.................
The United States may no longer be the singular dominant player 
  we were when I worked for Secretary Baker 30 years ago. But I 
  would still argue we have a better hand to play than any of 
  our major rivals. And that's because of our capacity for 
  domestic renewal which I know has been tested in recent 
  years. But it's hugely important and it sets us apart from 
  authoritarian regimes around the world.......................
And second is our capacity to draw on allies and partners, 
  which also sets us apart from lonelier powers like China and 
  Russia today. The second thing I'd stress, just to pick up 
  your point, is it is important--as pressing as immediate 
  crises and immediate threats always are at the CIA or 
  anywhere else in the U.S. Government--you have to be able to 
  look over the horizon a little bit. You mentioned one very 
  good example of that which is space, which I know is 
  something you been very much focused on......................
Here is an area in which our adversaries are working overtime 
  to try to develop their capabilities which can threaten 
  American critical infrastructure and lots of other things 
  that are important to us. It's also an area where there are 
  really no international rules of the road right now, whether 
  it's in terms of commerce or security or anything else.......
And so, I think it's incumbent upon CIA to focus on issues like 
  that, to be able to highlight the threat that's growing for 
  American interests. And then to try to think creatively in 
  support of policymakers about, you know, how you anticipate 
  those threats and begin today to plan for the best ways to 
  deal with them...............................................
Senator Bennet. We look forward to working with you on all of 
  that, I think. As you write in your book, that period of time 
  that Baker represents was a time when we were in the Cold War 
  and we had an organizing principle of some kind--which didn't 
  mean that we made--didn't make--mistakes. We made mistakes 
  all the time but we had an organizing principle. And I think 
  we lost that at the end of the Cold War in some respects, 
  that organizing principle. And then 9/11 happened and 
  disoriented us...............................................
And I think really this moment is an opportunity to reintroduce 
  our values to the rest of the world and do it, as you say, 
  with a sense of optimism. You know, we should have a sense of 
  optimism. A lot of countries that you've served in have had 
  some version of January 6th happen to them. But what they 
  don't have is what happened on January 20th here, which was 
  the peaceful transfer of power. And I think that that should 
  give us some confidence going forward. I hope it gives you 
  confidence...................................................
Ambassador Burns. I agree. Absolutely, Senator, I think we 
  ought to approach, however formidable the challenges are, we 
  ought to approach them with a sense of confidence and 
  optimism. That's what, in my long experience serving overseas 
  for the U.S. Government, whether people like our policies or 
  hate them. What they expect from Americans is problem-
  solving, a sense of possibility, a sense of optimism.........
That's what they admire most about our society when it's 
  operating at its best, and that's what they hope to see from 
  American leadership in the world. It is just as you said, 
  Senator: we don't always get it right. We don't have a 
  monopoly on wisdom. But we ought not to underestimate that 
  core strength that American society has and brings to the 
  world........................................................
Senator Bennet. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. 
  Ambassador...................................................
Chairman Warner. Senator Sasse?................................
Senator Sasse. Thank you, Chairman. Ambassador, 
  congratulations..............................................
Ambassador Burns. Hi, Senator..................................
Senator Sasse. Thank you for the time you spent with us in the 
  run-up to this. And I'll just say this Committee, as is well-
  known to the Members and to you, is different than most 
  committees on the Hill. And it's I think usually because we 
  don't have cameras. Usually people don't have any incentive 
  to make grandstanding speeches. And this Committee works a 
  lot better than most.........................................
But I also just want to commend you on the substance of your 
  opening statement. Confirmation hearings are usually an 
  exercise in defense where people don't want to say anything 
  that could get them in trouble if they look likely to be 
  confirmed, and you actually said a ton of substantive things. 
  I also think your answers to Senator Rubio about CCP 
  influence operations were meaty, so thank you for that.......
So, this is not a hostile question at all. It's genuinely a 
  sympathetic question to your nomination. But you said in your 
  opening statement that I think the biggest for priorities 
  that you have are China, tech, human capital, and--I forget 
  the term you used. I wrote down ``alliances.''...............
Ambassador Burns. Partnerships, yes............................
Senator Sasse. Personnel and partnerships. I think that's 
  exactly the right issues that for our IC. I think that's the 
  right set, and I think it's the right order. So, first of 
  all, congratulations on having a substantive view of the 
  important calling that you face..............................
It's not bad that we've had to go through an evolution as a 
  Nation on our China policy, because everybody in a bipartisan 
  way 20 years ago had a very different view about how things 
  might work out with the Chinese leadership. Obviously, that 
  hasn't happened..............................................
Could you walk us through a little bit of your evolution, 
  because you had different positions in, say, 2013. I think I 
  detect even an evolution from your ``Atlantic'' piece, which 
  I read last June/July, to your really meaty stuff today. So, 
  not a hostile question, but walk us through your evolution in 
  the last two or three years of how you think about the CCP...
Ambassador Burns. Well, thanks, Senator, very much. You know, I 
  think the truth is that Xi Jinping's China--I mentioned the 
  term ``wake-up call'' earlier in response to SolarWinds--but 
  I think the evolution of Xi Jinping's China over the last six 
  or seven years has been a very sharp wake-up call in a lot of 
  ways, the kind of aggressive, undisguised ambition and 
  assertiveness that I think has made very clear the nature of 
  the adversary and rival that we face today...................
And I think that's been true across partisan lines, not just in 
  the Congress, but across our society. And the challenge, 
  therefore, is how do you build a long-term--and I would 
  emphasize the term ``long-term'' because we have to buckle up 
  for the long haul, I think, in competition with China. This 
  is not like the competition with the Soviet Union and the 
  Cold War, which was primarily in security and ideological 
  terms........................................................
This is an adversary that is extraordinarily ambitious in 
  technology and capable in economic terms, as well. And so, 
  it's buckling up for the long term and developing a very 
  clear-eyed bipartisan strategy, which I think is entirely 
  possible right now...........................................
My role, if I'm confirmed as Director of CIA, will be to try to 
  ensure not only that we approach this issue with urgency and 
  with a very sharp focus, expand our capabilities over the 
  next couple of years, but then deliver the best possible 
  intelligence about the nature of Chinese intentions and 
  capabilities. That's the only way we'll be able to sustain 
  that kind of long-term strategy..............................
And then the only other thing I'd say, Senator, as we discussed 
  before, a critical part of that is going to be working with 
  allies and partners, because that's where Xi Jinping's China 
  and its wolf-warrior diplomacy has actually created 
  opportunities for us. Because it's helped open the eyes of 
  lots of partners and allies, not just across Asia but in 
  other parts of the world, to the nature of that threat as 
  well. And we need to try to take advantage of that, both in 
  intelligence partnerships and then obviously more broadly in 
  terms of diplomacy...........................................
Senator Sasse. I want to transition a little bit to your 
  bureaucratic challenges in trying to reorient the Agency's 
  budget and personnel to the challenges of today, not the 
  challenges of the post-9/11 moment. If we had a lot more 
  time, though, I would also want to drill down a little bit, 
  and I may do that in private in a followup to this during our 
  classified time today. But a lot of us are very worried about 
  Secretary Kerry's undefined role, because Chairman Xi Jinping 
  is going to lie about what they will do on climate. Like, 
  that's not an open question. He's going to lie...............
And so, it means if we have all these real technological race 
  challenges between the CCP and freedom-loving Nations, the 
  set of whatever the new NATO for the digital revolution is, 
  the Trans Pacific Partnership plus technology standards--
  whatever that thing is, if we take the pressure off in the 
  alliance that we're going to build because there's some 
  climate summit going to happen in 18 or 24 months where he's 
  going to promise a bunch of pie-in-the-sky, then everything 
  we're saying ends up being a house of cards. So, a lot of us 
  are worried about the climate lies that are going to come 
  from China as a way around this..............................
But I would like to ask you, in the post-9/11 moment, it was 
  right for us to be focused on the global CT threat and the 
  spread of jihadism. That's not the biggest challenge we face 
  right now, and yet most of our IC budget and personnel still 
  has these lingering effects of 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, and 
  2010. How are you going to make sure that the pivot toward 
  the Pacific is really operative in budget and personnel 
  decisions under your leadership?.............................
Ambassador Burns. Well, thanks, Senator. I look forward to a 
  longer conversation with you on both of the subjects.........
Briefly on climate, I just think it's important for the United 
  States to view cooperation with China on climate issues is 
  not a favor to the United States. It's in the self-interest 
  of China to do that. So, in other words, it's not something 
  to be traded. It's in the self-interest of China as well to 
  work on these issues. And it's important for us to be clear 
  eyed about that, as I'm sure the President and Secretary 
  Kerry will be................................................
On the wider question that you raised, I don't have a neat 
  formula to offer to you about the balance between what is a 
  continuing threat posed by terrorists groups, even though 
  we're almost 20 years after 9/11, and what are clearly huge 
  emerging challenges, particularly China, but all the other 
  ones that you mentioned. So, it's going to be critical for 
  the Agency to adapt in terms of resources, in terms of focus, 
  and everything else..........................................
I don't have a neat formula to offer to you today, but I look 
  forward very much to working with you on that because that 
  adaptation inevitably is going to require prioritizing 
  amongst resources and people.................................
Senator Sasse. Thank you. I know the Chairman is going to take 
  my mic, so I won't ask the question here but I'll just flag 
  that I'm going to followup with you as well about the 
  Historical Advisory Program..................................
Your memoir shows the importance of declassifying records. We 
  need to protect sources and methods wherever we can. We must. 
  It's essential. But the inertia of motion should eventually 
  be to declassification for public trust and for scholarly 
  purposes. And I think right now the inertia inside most of 
  our agencies is to assume, if someone doesn't proactively 
  declassify, it stays classified..............................
Chairman Warner. Senator Casey?................................
Senator Sasse. And I hope you'll return it to your--to 
  reporting----................................................
Chairman Warner. Senator Cotton has been extraordinarily 
  patient when we switched the order little bit here today, so 
  I want to make sure I don't try his patience any further.....
Senator Casey?.................................................
Senator Casey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Ambassador, great 
  to be with you...............................................
Ambassador Burns. Thank you....................................
Senator Casey. I come today to this hearing to express 
  gratitude for three reasons..................................
Number one is for your exemplary public service. I think that's 
  an understatement............................................
Number two, for your service, the service of your family 
  starting with your father and throughout the time that your 
  immediate family has served with you and provided their own 
  measure of service. I'm especially grateful that your father 
  has roots in Pennsylvania, and as I think you've told me 
  before specifically in Scranton, Pennsylvania, which provides 
  a special recognition for me.................................
But most importantly maybe for today, your recognition in your 
  opening statement of not only the service but the sacrifices 
  of the men and women of the CIA. You talked about those 
  personal moments that you had in front of that agency 
  memorial wall and knowing some of those who had lost their 
  lives, so I appreciate the fact that you recognize them......
I wanted to ask two questions. One is country specific and one 
  is more broadly about our national security threats. The 
  staff drafted a very good question for a new Member that I'll 
  use. But on China, you said it, and I'm quoting in your 
  opening statement, ``Out-competing China is key to our 
  national security.'' And I agree with that...................
Number two, when I consider the economic threats that China 
  poses to a state like Pennsylvania, I've often said that when 
  China cheats, we lose jobs in Pennsylvania. So, I guess just 
  in terms of the threats posed by China, I guess by way of 
  kind of itemization or prioritization, how do you rank them? 
  Technology, economic, military?..............................
How would you assess the basic threats that China poses?.......
Ambassador Burns. Well, Senator Casey, it is good to see you 
  again. I think as many of the Members of this Committee have 
  argued eloquently in public, I think technology and 
  competition and technology cuts right to the core of China's 
  capacity to compete in military terms and economic terms as 
  well.........................................................
So if I had to underscore the core area that's going to matter 
  most in terms of competition with an adversarial China, I 
  think it cuts right to that issue of technology as we look 
  out over the next decade or more.............................
Senator Casey. That is helpful and I wanted to speak more 
  broadly now about national security threats..................
Again, if you could just itemize--if that is possible in a 
  short answer. I know we don't have a lot of time, but the 
  major national security threats that we face. And then in 
  particular--and I think this is an important point that the 
  staff made in the materials--how should the CIA be positioned 
  to predict, provide a warning about, and to mitigate these 
  threats?.....................................................
Ambassador Burns. Well, Senator, one thing I have learned over 
  the years is, while it's very important to have priorities, 
  and I think I would put at the top of the list--as I 
  mentioned in my opening statement--the challenge posed by Xi 
  Jinping's China, by an adversarial China. It is hard for me 
  to see a more significant threat or challenge for the United 
  States as far out as I can see into the 21st century than 
  that one. It is the biggest geopolitical test that we face...
Having said that, you know, in the same sentence, I would not 
  want to give short shrift to a range of other challenges out 
  there. As I mentioned, Putin's Russia continues to 
  demonstrate that declining powers can be just as disruptive 
  as rising ones and can make use of asymmetrical tools, 
  especially cyber tools, to do that. So we can't afford to 
  underestimate them...........................................
The nonproliferation challenges and the other challenges posed 
  by Iranian behavior, for example, are hugely significant and 
  ones that we can't afford to ignore. Across the board, 
  ballistic missile development as well as subversive and 
  destabilizing actions in the Middle East and human rights 
  abuses toward its own people inside Iran as well.............
And then, as I said earlier, we have to look ahead as well to 
  those emerging challenges--the problems without passports 
  that we have to deal with that aren't confined to any one 
  nation-state. Whether it's issues of global health 
  insecurity--as you know the American people have faced in 
  full measure over the course of the last year; whether it's 
  the revolution in technology; whether it's other forms of 
  instability or problems, they are going to create challenges 
  for the United States down the road. So you know, if I had to 
  put one set of challenges at the top of the list, it would 
  certainly be China, as I mentioned before. But we just don't 
  have the luxury of neglecting any of those other challenges, 
  as well......................................................
Senator Casey. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador.......................
I look forward to supporting your confirmation.................
Ambassador Burns. Thank you, Senator...........................
Chairman Warner. Senator Cotton?...............................
Senator Cotton. Mr. Burns, welcome, thank you..................
Ambassador Burns. Thank you....................................
Senator Cotton. Congratulations on your nomination.............
Mr. Burns I want to start by adding my voice to Senator Warner 
  and Senator Collins concerns about the microwave attacks at 
  our embassies around the world. I won't belabor that. I will 
  just say that I share that and I appreciate your commitment 
  to getting to the bottom of it and taking care of anyone who 
  has been injured in it.......................................
Ambassador Burns. Thank you....................................
Senator Cotton. More broadly, as we discussed on the phone last 
  week, I have taken an interest over the years in the health 
  of our Special Activities Center inside the CIA specifically, 
  or I should say metaphorical health, in terms of the numbers 
  of paramilitary officers available and the workload we are 
  asking them to bear. But also the literal health, because 
  many of them do suffer the same kind of wounds that our 
  service members face.........................................
I just want to speak today publicly about what we discussed on 
  the phone. You do commit to ensuring that these officers and 
  their families have the very best medical care and support 
  available....................................................
Ambassador Burns. Absolutely, Sir. I have seen firsthand the 
  sacrifices that they have made, the courage they have 
  demonstrated, especially over the last 20 years. And so I am 
  absolutely committed to that.................................
Senator Cotton. And that includes continuing the work that 
  Director Haspel and her leadership has already started to 
  ensure that these officers have care that is equal to if not 
  better than what we already provide our service members and 
  veterans?....................................................
Ambassador Burns. Yes, Sir.....................................
Senator Cotton. Thank you......................................
I want to touch briefly on another point that we discussed. You 
  are probably aware that I briefly held Director Haines's 
  nomination to be Director of National Intelligence after an 
  answer to one of her questions had implied that she might 
  reconsider some actions taken on long-concluded 
  accountability review boards related to long-closed terrorist 
  detention programs...........................................
I am troubled by some media reports I have seen that suggest a 
  senior CIA officer who was detailed to the DNI has recently 
  had his portfolio reduced because of his involvement in that 
  program. I would just like to get your commitment that if 
  confirmed, you will abide by the determination of the Obama 
  administration not to resurrect any efforts to prosecute or 
  take administrative action against, or prejudice in any way 
  in any future promotion or selection panels, for any CIA 
  officer involved with those programs that were conducted 
  under DOJ guidance and Presidential direction................
Ambassador Burns. Yes, Senator.................................
As I mentioned earlier, you have my commitment not to take 
  actions against or prejudice the careers of officers who may 
  have worked on those programs in the past when they were 
  operating under Department of Justice guidelines and at the 
  direction of the President. Yes, Sir.........................
Senator Cotton. Thank you. We also talked in our phone call 
  about the importance of everything the CIA does but the 
  centrality of the collection of foreign intelligence; and to 
  put it in military terms, that collection is the main effort 
  at the CIA...................................................
Ambassador Burns. Yes, Sir.....................................
Senator Cotton. And that means primarily the department--or the 
  Directorate of Operations, but also other elements of the 
  Agency: in Science and Technology and the new Digital 
  Directorate. You agree that collection of foreign 
  intelligence is the main effort at the Central Intelligence 
  Agency?......................................................
Ambassador Burns. It is the core of CIA's mission. Analysis in 
  other words, what you do with that collection to put it in a 
  form that is going to be most useful to policymakers, is 
  obviously critical as well. But at the core of what the CIA 
  does is that foreign collection, in particular human 
  intelligence.................................................
Senator Cotton. And that is because the collection of foreign 
  intelligence, put in laymen's terms--stealing foreign 
  secrets--it allows those analysts to have an even richer 
  analysis than what they would have if they were only using 
  publicly-available sources, the way, say, an academic or a 
  think tank scholar might?....................................
Ambassador Burns. That is correct. And it does involve, as you 
  said, stealing secrets and doing it in a way that is superior 
  to what our rivals and adversaries try to do.................
Senator Cotton. Thank you......................................
We also talked about covert action. I shared my views that too 
  often Administrations in the past of both parties have viewed 
  covert action not as a supplement to policy, but as a 
  substitute for policy........................................
Would you agree with that assessment?..........................
Ambassador Burns. Yes, and I think it is one of the big 
  dangers. I haven't had a chance to be briefed in detail on 
  existing covert action programs, and it is something I would 
  look forward to talking about in closed sessions in the 
  future. But your point about connecting covert action 
  programs at the direction of the President to coherent policy 
  is absolutely crucial. It cannot be a substitute for sound 
  policy choices...............................................
Senator Cotton. It is, however, in many cases a sound 
  supplement to a broader foreign policy in that we should not 
  have a reluctance to use it [Inaudible.].....................
Ambassador Burns. Yes, Sir. As one tool in a coherent strategy 
  and policy. I absolutely agree with you......................
Senator Cotton. When you were out of government you said, 
  quote: ``It is simply impractical to think that the United 
  States will provide significant sanctions relief without 
  assurances that Iran will immediately begin negotiations on a 
  follow-on agreement that at least extends the timelines of 
  the deal and addresses issues of verification and 
  intercontinental ballistic missiles.''.......................
I agree........................................................
If confirmed, Mr. Burns, will you provide that same realistic 
  assessment to the Administration, even if it contradicts the 
  Administration's preferred policy approach to negotiations?..
Ambassador Burns. Yes, Sir. Senator, on Iran as well as on a 
  whole range of other issues, it will be my obligation if 
  confirmed to deliver those intelligence assessments in a 
  straightforward and unvarnished way..........................
Senator Cotton. Thank you, Mr. Burns. I look forward to talking 
  about some of these other matters later this afternoon.......
Ambassador Burns. Thank you, Sir...............................
Chairman Warner. Thank you, Senator Cotton. We now have Senator 
  Gillibrand on WebEx..........................................
Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman....................
Over the last year alone, according to public reports, Russia 
  attempted to influence the 2020 election and stoke discord in 
  our country; attempted to assassinate a prominent 
  anticorruption activist using nerve agent; and perpetrated 
  the SolarWinds hack, one of the largest cyber intrusions ever 
  that breached sensitive U.S. Government systems..............
Obviously, you have served as Ambassador to Moscow, you speak 
  Russian. Where do you think we should start with the Kremlin? 
  And if you are confirmed, what would be your approach to this 
  profound challenge?..........................................
Ambassador Burns. Well, Senator, it is nice to see you and I 
  enjoyed our conversation earlier this week...................
Certainly, I think it's a huge mistake, as I said earlier, not 
  to underestimate the challenge and the threat that Vladimir 
  Putin's Russia can pose to the United States. My own view in 
  the past, both serving as a policymaker and then as a private 
  citizen, has been there's no substitute for firmness and 
  consistency in dealing with Putin's Russia, and working as 
  closely as we can with allies and partners who share those 
  same concerns................................................
I know the Biden administration is soon to produce an 
  assessment of all of those issues that you've just mentioned, 
  from SolarWinds to the poisoning and then the cruel 
  absurdity, as the Chairman has put it, publicly of sentencing 
  Alexei Navalny to years in a penal colony for failing to 
  check in with his parole officer, when the reason he failed 
  to check in is that he was in a coma after an attempted 
  assassination attempt clearly sponsored by the Kremlin to 
  poison him to death..........................................
So, there's a whole range of issues on which I know this 
  assessment will not only provide the best intelligence that 
  we are capable of on exactly what happened in those 
  instances, but also a sense of the consequences for them as 
  well. And so, if I'm confirmed, I look forward very much to 
  participating in that effort and what flows from it in the 
  future.......................................................
So, the short answer, Senator, is I think there's no substitute 
  for firmness and consistency and being clear eyed, because 
  the reality is that, I think, in terms of American policy of 
  U.S.-Russian relations--as long as Vladimir Putin is the 
  leader of Russia, we're going to be operating within a pretty 
  narrow band of possibilities, from the very sharply 
  competitive to the very nastily adversarial..................
Senator Gillibrand. Yes, I think we also will have a similar 
  challenge with regard to China. And obviously, there is a 
  great deal of strategic competition with China right now, but 
  we also want to have some kind of engagement strategy........
Can you expand upon your views on what you would like to do to 
  approach China?..............................................
Ambassador Burns. Well, I think again, if I'm confirmed as the 
  Director of CIA, my role won't be as a policymaker anymore. 
  But I think the core of sound policy choices is the best 
  intelligence we can provide about the intentions and 
  capabilities of Xi Jinping's China. And that's something that 
  we need to develop ourselves. We need to work closely with 
  allies and partners who share many of those same concerns....
So, as I said earlier, Senator, I think it's absolutely 
  important to be quite clear-eyed about the long-term nature 
  of that challenge from an adversarial China under Xi 
  Jinping's leadership; and to help policymakers think through 
  the various ways in which those threats can emerge, to look 
  carefully at vulnerabilities whether it's in supply chains or 
  in other areas, and to always be mindful of the value for the 
  United States of working closely with allies and partners in 
  developing that intelligence, but also in developing and 
  executing smart policy.......................................
Senator Gillibrand. And your third-largest challenge, at least 
  for the Nation and President Biden, is Iran. And I know you 
  were instrumental in the negotiations under the Obama 
  administration...............................................
What do you think the approach will be with regard to Iran?....
Ambassador Burns. Well, I've always thought that the key to 
  dealing with the variety of threats that are posed by Iran 
  today is a comprehensive strategy, of which preventing Iran 
  from developing a nuclear weapon is only one part............
It has to be a strategy that pushes back against threatening 
  Iranian actions, whether it's developing ballistic missiles 
  and destabilizing its region or subverting other governments 
  or human rights abuses against its own people. And so, I 
  think in all those areas, we have to be mindful of the fact 
  that, even if Iran returns to full compliance with the 
  comprehensive nuclear agreement and the United States does as 
  well, as President Biden said he's prepared to do, that then 
  needs to be a platform.......................................
Secretary Blinken has emphasized a platform for building longer 
  and stronger nuclear constraints, and also for dealing with 
  those other areas of threatening Iranian actions that I 
  mentioned before. I know that's easier said than done, but 
  that needs to be the clear strategy, it seems to me. In my 
  role, if I'm confirmed, will be to help provide the best 
  possible intelligence as policymakers pursue that strategy...
Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman....................
Chairman Warner. Thank you, Senator Gillibrand.................
Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Ambassador......................
Chairman Warner. Well, Ambassador Burns, you got through the 
  first hurdle, 15 out of 16. And if Senator Risch joins us, he 
  will get first crack in the closed session. The hearing will 
  go into recess and we will reconvene at one o'clock. We very 
  much appreciate your testimony...............................
Ambassador Burns. Thank you....................................
Vice Chairman Rubio. And again, echoing Senator Wyden's 
  comments, rarely does a nominee come before this Committee 
  with this much positive approval, although rarely does a 
  nominee also bring Jim Baker and Leon Panetta as their 
  introducers..................................................
So, we'll look forward to seeing you at one o'clock............
Ambassador Burns. Thank you....................................
Vice Chairman Rubio. The Committee stands in recess............
[Whereupon at 12:07 p.m. the Committee stood in recess subject 
  to the call of the Chairman.]................................

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