[Senate Hearing 117-443]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                       S. Hrg. 117-443

                   THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR
                  THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
                          FOR FISCAL YEAR 2022

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             JULY 27, 2021

                               __________
                               
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                       Printed for the use of the
               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                               __________

                                
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
45-248                      WASHINGTON : 2023                    
          
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               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon                    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington           JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico          STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine            JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado       CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
                                     ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas

                      Renae Black, Staff Director
                      Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
                     David Brooks, General Counsel
             Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
              Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
        John Tanner, Republican Deputy Staff Director for Lands
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West 
  Virginia.......................................................     1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from 
  Wyoming........................................................     2

                                WITNESS

Haaland, Hon. Deb, Secretary, U.S. Department of the Interior....     4

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Barrasso, Hon. John:
    Opening Statement............................................     2
Haaland, Hon. Deb:
    Opening Statement............................................     4
    Written Testimony............................................     7
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    51
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
Ute Indian Tribe:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   101

 
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR 
                          FOR FISCAL YEAR 2022

                              ----------                              


                         TUESDAY, JULY 27, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m. in 
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin 
III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA

    The Chairman. We convene this morning to review the 
President's proposed budget for the Department of the Interior. 
Secretary Haaland, it is a pleasure to welcome you back for 
your first budget hearing before the Committee as Secretary of 
the Interior.
    The Interior Department has dual and sometimes conflicting 
responsibilities. On one hand, the Department is responsible 
for managing and protecting our national parks, wildlife 
refuges, the public lands, and providing for outdoor 
recreation, which has become increasingly important. At the 
same time, the Department is responsible for managing public 
lands and offshore resources to responsibly develop the energy 
and mineral resources that we need to maintain our energy 
independence. It is with that dual mission in mind that we 
should be reviewing priorities contained in this budget 
request.
    At a high level, the President has requested $17.6 billion 
in appropriations for the Interior Department in Fiscal Year 
2022. That represents an increase of $2.5 billion--or 17 
percent--over the current enacted level, and a sharp contrast 
to the 16 percent cut proposed last year by the previous 
Administration.
    The budget includes new mandatory funding provided by the 
Great American Outdoors Act, which was signed into law last 
year. That law is providing the Department with much-needed 
funding over five years to address high-priority deferred 
maintenance projects, as well as permanent funding for the Land 
and Water Conservation Fund (LWCF) at its fully authorized 
level.
    The Great American Outdoors Act was enacted with broad 
bipartisan support, and I think it is important that the 
funding process be equitable and transparent. I appreciate that 
the Administration has provided Congress with lists of its 
proposed maintenance and LWCF and deferred maintenance 
projects. I hope that we can use this hearing to get a better 
understanding of how the Department is prioritizing funding.
    I expect that there will be much discussion this morning on 
the Department's policies and proposals concerning energy 
development on federal lands and waters. In January, President 
Biden issued an Executive Order pausing new oil and gas lease 
sales on federal lands and waters to allow time for a 
comprehensive review of the program. While I have supported the 
Administration's desire to pause lease sales to make sure the 
American people are getting fair returns for our shared 
resources, we are now well into the early summer timeline when 
we were told the review would be completed.
    I also understand that a federal judge has issued an 
injunction against the Administration's pause, although I 
expect that decision will be appealed. In any event, we need a 
plan to move forward with responsible oil and gas leasing, both 
onshore and offshore, to maintain our energy independence. I 
look forward to discussing this in further detail with 
Secretary Haaland later in the hearing.
    I will turn now to a constituency that is near and dear to 
my home state. Coal miners have made tremendous sacrifices and 
have done the heavy lifting that powered our nation to 
greatness. The country has benefited from the work that the 
scars of abandoned mine lands left in those communities, and it 
is imperative that we give back to coal communities for the 
sacrifices they made for our nation. So I was pleased to see 
that the President's budget called for a $50 million increase 
for the Abandoned Mine Land Economic Revitalization, or AMLER, 
grant program, which helps to eliminate health and safety 
hazards and reclaim areas for future economic benefit in places 
like West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky, which were the 
heart of the coal country. I look forward to continuing to work 
with you to ensure all outstanding mine land Reclamation 
needs--including post-1977 areas governed under title V of the 
Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act, which we refer to 
as SMCRA--are adequately addressed.
    Finally, I would like to make a note about departmental 
nominations. I am pleased that the Senate confirmed Tommy 
Beaudreau as your Deputy earlier this summer. But I am 
disappointed that we have yet to receive a nomination for a 
Director of the National Park Service. National parks, 
including the newest national park, New River Gorge, are seeing 
record visitations this summer as the nation reopens. The 
National Park Service has significant funding decisions to make 
in implementing the Great American Outdoors Act. Yet the Park 
Service has been without a confirmed Director since the end of 
the Obama Administration. I urge the President to send us a 
nomination so we can get this position filled as quickly as 
possible.
    Now I will turn to my friend, Senator John Barrasso, for 
his opening statement.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING

    Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks very much, Mr. Chairman. 
Before I start my statement, I would like to extend an 
invitation to Secretary Haaland. Madam Secretary, this past 
weekend Governor Gordon and I were in Wyoming and we were 
discussing the tragedy of missing and murdered indigenous 
people. As you know, it is a serious issue facing members of 
the Northern Arapaho and the Eastern Shoshone tribes on and 
outside the Wind River Reservation and it is something we are 
dealing with in Wyoming. I know you are deeply concerned and 
care about this issue and I just would like to invite you to 
come to Wyoming, with the Governor, with me, to get your 
valuable insights. Thank you, Madam Secretary.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, because I think it is very timely 
that Secretary Haaland is here today to testify on the 
President's Fiscal Year 2022 Department of the Interior budget. 
So welcome.
    The West is facing many challenges. Wildfires and drought 
are threatening our communities. Rural communities, ranching 
and farming families face a real water crisis this year. The 
West is where most of our federal lands are located, yet so 
many of the policies of the Administration seem to be 
distinctly anti-western.
    Last month, a federal court issued a nationwide injunction 
on President Biden's so-called pause on oil and gas lease 
sales. Under the court order, the Department is required to 
hold new oil and gas lease sales. To date, it has not noticed 
any new oil and gas lease sales and it is past time for the 
Administration to comply with law and hold new lease sales.
    Energy production on public lands is the engine of 
Wyoming's economy. It creates good-paying jobs, it provides 
tremendous revenue for the state, for our schools, and for 
critical services. The Biden Administration seems intent on 
destroying the livelihoods of oil, natural gas, and coal 
workers in the West. It is tearing away all the advantages that 
traditional energy production brings our states, our local 
communities, and our families. The Department needs to change 
course and get back to an American energy-dominance agenda--an 
agenda that creates jobs and provides for energy independence 
from foreign adversaries.
    Much of the West is also facing historic drought. Droughts 
are contributing to a number of issues, including wildfires. 
According to the National Interagency Fire Center, wildfires in 
the West have already consumed around two million acres, and we 
are early in the fire season.
    In addition to drought and extreme temperatures, the lack 
of proactive forest management has created the perfect storm 
for catastrophic wildfire events. These fires threaten the 
safety of our local communities and the safety of our wildland 
firefighters. We can and should do more to make our public 
lands less susceptible to such devastation. This can be done, 
in part, through thinning forested lands.
    Drought also highlights how critical water is to all 
aspects of western communities. We have not been building 
significant or sufficient water storage for western communities 
for years. As the West grows, so does our demand for water, yet 
our water supplies are dwindling. In Wyoming and many parts of 
the West, that means less water for ranchers and farmers. For 
communities in the West, the negative economic impact is 
significant.
    The Administration has not prioritized water development in 
the West. The Bureau of Reclamation is the only Interior 
Department agency within this Committee's purview that actually 
received a cut in the Administration's budget. The Department 
could help our western ranchers who graze cattle on federal 
lands by making temporary pasture available and assisting with 
water storage development.
    The Bureau of Reclamation programs to build more water 
storage are expiring this year. I have introduced legislation--
the Western Water Infrastructure Act--to extend these programs. 
Existing Bureau of Reclamation water storage infrastructure is 
also crumbling. The Bureau needs to fund the repairs and to 
modernize these facilities. My legislation addresses these 
critical issues.
    The Biden Administration can and should do more to make 
America energy independent and maintain and create more jobs in 
the West. Much more needs to be done to make our public lands 
more resilient to the threat of wildfires. The Bureau of 
Reclamation also needs to be a higher priority for this 
Administration if we are to maintain and grow a viable, rural, 
western economy.
    So I look forward to exploring these and other issues with 
the Secretary today. Thank you, Madam Secretary. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. I would like to say also, 
just a moment of silence for our friend who passed away 
unexpectedly, Mike Enzi. Thank you all.
    [A moment of silence is observed.]
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the nice 
sentiments for Senator Enzi. He was a friend and colleague to 
so many of us, and I am going to be going to the floor. If I 
leave the Committee hearing it is to go to the floor to 
address, at length, along with Senator Lummis, our love and 
appreciation of the entire Enzi family and talk about Mike's 
service to the state and local community and then here in the 
Senate. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Such a sad, sad situation.
    Secretary Haaland is accompanied by Rachael Taylor, a 
former West Virginian. The Principal Deputy Assistant for 
Policy, Management, and Budget at the Department, and 
previously a long-time staff member on the Senate Interior 
Appropriations Subcommittee. So we welcome both of you, very 
kindly, to come back and visit with us.
    Secretary Haaland, you can proceed with your statement now.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DEB HAALAND, 
           SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

    Secretary Haaland. Chairman, Ranking Member, and members of 
the Committee, first, let me offer my condolences for your 
loss. I am very sorry. I read the article this morning and I am 
just so sorry for your loss.
    Chairman, Ranking Member Barrasso, members of the 
Committee, it is an honor to be here with you today on behalf 
of the Department of the Interior. It is deeply meaningful to 
me, as the first Native American Cabinet Secretary, to be here 
on the ancestral homelands of the Anacostan and Piscataway 
people, speaking before you.
    This Committee plays an important role in the success of 
the Department of the Interior and our many programs. The work 
that Congress has done on a bipartisan basis to support 
priorities such as the Great American Outdoors Act, wildland 
fire, and tribal programs, has been integral to the ability of 
the Interior to meet our mission. It has had profound impacts 
on the lives of Native Americans and Alaska Natives in 
communities across our country. In that spirit, I come before 
you today to present the Fiscal Year 2022 budget and to talk 
about how we can work together to ensure the Department is 
ready and to meet this moment.
    The 2022 budget reflects the important role Interior will 
play to accomplish the Administration's goals to move our 
country forward during this unprecedented time. The President's 
budget responds by proposing $17.6 billion in discretionary 
investments in Interior, as well as legislative proposals to 
implement the American Jobs Plan. The programs you see 
reflected in the budget request lift up the President's goals 
of addressing the climate crisis, providing much-needed 
resources to tribal nations, restoring balance on public lands 
and waters, advancing equity and environmental justice, 
investing in a clean energy future, and creating good-paying 
jobs.
    I will walk through a few high-level details now, and then 
I look forward to discussing the details with you. First, the 
budget supports partnership programs that will advance the 
``America the Beautiful'' initiative, our Administration's 
effort to conserve 30 percent of U.S. lands and waters by 2030, 
through locally led and voluntary projects. The request also 
allocates the full, mandatory funding for the Land and Water 
Conservation Fund, a program I cared deeply about as a Member 
of Congress, and am thrilled to help direct as Secretary. It 
includes $86 million for the Civilian Climate Corps initiative.
    All told, the budget includes unprecedented investments to 
address the climate crisis, including more than $1.9 billion in 
new funding toward conservation, clean energy, climate science, 
and fleet modernization. This includes an increase of $133 
million to accelerate and expand activities that support clean 
energy deployment across federal lands and waters. It includes 
more than $300 million to support fuels management activities, 
to reduce the risk of wildland fire, funds to help prevent 
wildfires from taking hold, growing in severity, and 
threatening communities and resources.
    The budget request prioritizes investments in science, 
including $200 million in new funds that will help us to 
understand climate impacts and make better decisions about how 
to mitigate, adapt, and increase resilience across the 
landscape and in our communities. It also provides $300 million 
to support the President's Reclamation Jobs initiative and 
cleanup legacy pollution by plugging orphan oil and gas wells 
and cleaning up abandoned mines.
    And it includes major investments for Indian Country. The 
budget includes $4.2 billion across all Indian Affairs 
programs, which is $728 million above Fiscal Year 2021 levels. 
This includes a focus on strengthening tribal sovereignty, 
including a proposal for $150 million to reestablish the Land 
Consolidation Program with the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
    This request also includes important increases for tribal 
public safety and justice programs, including $16.5 million for 
programs like Interior's Missing and Murdered Unit, that 
address the missing and murdered indigenous peoples crisis.
    And finally, to ensure our nation's legal obligations to 
tribes are fully met, the budget proposes to shift funding for 
tribal water settlements, contract support costs, and tribal 
lease payments to mandatory spending, starting in Fiscal Year 
2023.
    These are just some of the highlights of this budget 
request. I look forward to working with the Committee to 
achieve these important goals. I commit to you that I will 
continue to honor and respect the role of this Committee, with 
the confident expectation that working together, we can 
accomplish great things on behalf of the American people.
    This concludes my remarks and I look forward to answering 
your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Secretary Haaland follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    The Chairman. Thank you, Secretary Haaland. I will begin 
with the questions.
    I have said that the Administration has the right and 
basically the responsibility to look at all the leases that we 
have, and we have paused those. So I would ask, can you shed 
some light on the status of the review, since after the pause 
and reviewing, what you may have found and what are the next 
steps we will take?
    Secretary Haaland. Chairman, thank you so much for that 
question. And first, I will just assure you that we are 
complying with the court order. We are evaluating our options, 
including what has been previously available for leasing. Of 
course, there is a lot of work that goes into moving that 
forward. We are working--the review is being finalized 
internally and we hope to get it out very soon.
    The Chairman. If you could just give us a little bit of the 
progress, or whoever we can contact in your office that can 
give us the progress and what direction you might be going, 
that might give us a little better light on that, okay?
    Secretary Haaland. Yes, Chairman. I can have my staff reach 
out----
    The Chairman. Please.
    Secretary Haaland [continuing]. To your staff and we'd be 
happy to do that.
    The Chairman. Thank you. I appreciate that.
    Also, on the American supply chains--you know, the 
President's order on American supply chains, which is for the 
critical minerals we need for so many things and products we 
use every day. There is nothing in there for a report of how 
you are going to determine where those minerals might be 
located and how we might best extract those for use in our 
American supply chain.
    So if you could, tell me how you are focused on the clean 
energy supply chain when the budget does not really show that 
whatsoever.
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Chairman. Of course, we 
understand that this is important. The President believes very 
strongly and supports energy independence, and those critical 
minerals, of course, are a part of our clean energy future. The 
USGS [United States Geological Survey] is studying these 
issues. We want to make sure that whatever we do, of course, is 
done responsibly. We would be more than happy to follow up, as 
well, with your office on any details that you might request.
    The Chairman. Well, we put $50 million in that, as you 
recall, okay?
    Secretary Haaland. Yes.
    The Chairman. And basically, we looked at how you all were 
disbursing and what you were using it for. And the budget 
request includes many priorities, including $5 million for 
forecasting, but does not have anything, not anything in there 
for the critical mineral resource assessment, what we have in 
our country, what we can expect to do, and how we can support 
all the industry and all the need--the products we need in 
America.
    The surest way to avoid wasteful and damaging venting and 
flaring--so this is venting and flaring on public lands. On 
private lands, most of the methane is taken off because it has 
value to it. But on the public lands, we found out the 
impediment of not taking and why they are continuing to flare, 
which we think is harmful, dangerous, and wasteful. It is 
because they cannot get permits for pipelines to take that 
product to market. So if you could explain to me, are there any 
steps that you all have taken to reduce the flaring and venting 
of this product and allowing that to be taken to market? Or how 
are you all looking at that?
    Secretary Haaland. Chairman, thank you so much for the 
question and I appreciate your commitment to this issue. The 
Administration is focused on reducing methane emissions and I 
think you know that the Obama Administration issued a rule to 
limit flaring. But that has been involved in litigation. So we 
know that that is part of protecting taxpayers and the 
environment, of course. We'd be happy to fill you in with 
further details, but it is definitely a priority of ours.
    The Chairman. We would be happy to sit down with you, as we 
can only tell you what we know is that, basically, they cannot 
get a permit to build a pipeline to take the methane off. We 
have the technology. We do it in the private sector. We do it 
all over the East Coast, because it is a valued product. But 
out west, they are not doing it and then we all are getting 
condemned for flaring, which is very lethal to the environment. 
And on the other hand, we can get it to market. So we are going 
to have to either adopt a policy where we can get that product 
to market, or you will never do anymore leasing if flaring is 
going to be the criteria. That is my only comment on that.
    Fewer than two weeks ago, the Committee reported out a 
bipartisan infrastructure bill in which we authorized $19 
billion to reclaim abandoned mine lands and orphaned gas wells. 
Also, Senator Heinrich brought to our attention the horrible 
condition of hardrock mining. We know that and we are looking 
desperately to find the money to do that, too. But we have to 
repurpose everything, and we will, at the proper time. But that 
is something to be done. How are you all approaching that, as 
far as the benefits of having the program at the Department 
level, as opposed to just passing funds directly to agencies?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Chairman. I'd love for 
Rachael to have an opportunity to----
    The Chairman. Sure.
    Secretary Haaland [continuing]. Fill you in on some 
details. I can tell you that this is an important issue for us, 
and, in fact, I traveled recently to Pennsylvania to witness 
how well they are doing with reclaiming these abandoned mine 
lands. Rachael.
    Ms. Taylor. So as you know, I mean, we are grateful for 
your leadership in working on the infrastructure package, which 
includes the President's commitment on these issues.
    We also have some important investments in the budget 
request itself, which spoke to the Reclamation jobs and the 
proposals that you have mentioned. And that includes the AMLER 
program you mentioned, but it also includes some of the 
hardrock cleanup issues. And I think one of the issues that we 
are focusing on is inventorying and getting really good data 
across the country and that is going to be on federal lands, 
that is going to be on tribal lands, and that is going to be on 
non-federal lands as well.
    So we definitely have investments that are tailored toward 
that. And what we had envisioned is that we would have a 
centralized program that would help sort of roll up all the 
priorities across land management agencies so we could look at 
the highest priorities on the federal family side. And then we 
would provide assistance to states and tribes so that they 
could deal with the hardrock mining cleanup as well. So we are 
continuing to engage on this issue and appreciate the priority 
that you mentioned.
    The Chairman. Along the mining issue, I will just--my time 
has expired. But on the mining issue, I will tell you that 
there is a bigger problem, basically, with the bonding 
companies post-SMCRA. That's post-1977. We have been talking a 
lot and we put $11 billion toward pre-1977--pre-SMCRA. Post-
SMCRA, bonding companies are walking away from this. Companies 
are declaring bankruptcy. Bonding companies are thinking they 
are off the hook once the company declares bankruptcy, and 
nothing gets done. It is ridiculous what is going on. So I hope 
you look into that. We are going to be doing a deep dive into 
that, also, along with hardrock mining, to make sure they are 
going to be operating on the same procedures, Okay?
    Ms. Taylor. Yes.
    The Chairman. Thank you. Senator Barrasso.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Madam Secretary, 
I have some short questions, just if you could respond briefly. 
And the first has to do with tree spiking, where people drive 
metal spikes into trees. Do you know if tree spiking can kill 
or maim loggers or mill workers?
    Secretary Haaland. Well, I know that--Senator, I imagine 
so. I was not really familiar with any of that practice until 
recently.
    Senator Barrasso. Is tree spiking in national forests a 
federal crime?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I couldn't tell you for sure. 
But I imagine it's----
    Senator Barrasso. It is.
    Secretary Haaland [continuing]. It's very dangerous.
    Senator Barrasso. Yes. So should individuals who are aware 
of spiked trees, in terms of national forests, should they 
immediately inform law enforcement?
    Secretary Haaland. I imagine that anyone should inform law 
enforcement if it's a danger, sure.
    Senator Barrasso. So I guess the question is, should 
individuals who plan or otherwise are involved in tree spiking 
incidents and threaten the physical safety of federal 
officials--should they expect to be hired by the Department of 
the Interior?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, if I may, I believe you are 
referring to the nominee Tracy Stone-Manning, and I also 
recognize that she was nominated by President Biden because he 
felt she could do the job and that she was qualified otherwise.
    Senator Barrasso. On the issue of wildfires in the West, 
which is a major issue, as wildfires are burning around the 
West. National forests burn--there is an interface now, with 
areas where people build homes, and forests can burn, and there 
are problems for, sometimes, structures who are at risk, who 
are at this interface where structures are built. So do you 
agree with this statement?--``Perhaps the solution to houses in 
the interface is to let them burn.''
    Secretary Haaland. Well, I can't necessarily agree or 
disagree, but I--I mean, I think the wildfires are just getting 
more intense because of climate change and that is why we need 
to make preventative measures and put resources toward 
protecting communities.
    Senator Barrasso. So do you agree with this statement?--
``There is a rude and satisfying justice in burning down the 
house of someone who builds in the forest.''
    Secretary Haaland. I don't, no.
    Senator Barrasso. Do you agree that children are an 
environmental hazard?
    Secretary Haaland. Do I agree that children are----
    Senator Barrasso. Children are an environmental hazard.
    Secretary Haaland [continuing]. An environmental hazard?
    Senator Barrasso. Yes.
    Secretary Haaland. No.
    Senator Barrasso. No? Okay. Do you agree that grazing on 
federal lands is destroying the West? These are obviously 
statements that someone else has made that you know, we 
disagree with and I want to see if you are of that same 
mindset.
    Secretary Haaland. I haven't heard all these statements, 
Senator. I mean, I agree there are a lot of things that are 
destroying the West, like drought and wildfire and climate 
change. Of course, climate change is certainly ruining a lot of 
our country right now.
    Senator Barrasso. But you would not necessarily want to 
hire an employee in a land management position who agrees or 
puts forth these statements about satisfying justice and 
letting houses burn, or children as environmental hazards?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, what I will say is that I, as 
the Secretary of the Interior, am not personally hiring anyone. 
I believe that is a team effort and I know that the Senate 
plays a very large role in any of these positions as well.
    Senator Barrasso. On June 15th, a federal court issued a 
nationwide injunction against President Biden's ban on oil and 
gas lease sales on federal lands and waters. Shortly 
afterwards, a spokesman for your department said the Department 
would comply with the court's order. However, to date--and here 
we are, it is now July 27th, six weeks later--the Department 
has failed to notice any oil and gas lease sales. Will the 
Department hold onshore oil and gas lease sales this quarter, 
that is, before the end of September?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, the Department is complying 
with the court order. As you may know, it's not a switch you 
can turn on. There is a lot of work that goes into a lease sale 
and so we are complying with the court's order, we are 
evaluating our options, and that includes what has previously 
been available for leasing.
    Senator Barrasso. So will the Department then reschedule 
the first and second quarter of the year lease sales that had 
previously been postponed?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, in addition to the fact that we 
are complying with the court order, I will just say that this 
matter is in litigation and I can't necessarily go into any 
more details about it.
    Senator Barrasso. Okay. And then, finally, Mr. Chairman, 
the West is currently suffering historic drought conditions, as 
you and others on the Committee have said. Yet the budget that 
the President proposed seeks to cut funding for the Bureau of 
Reclamation, as I mentioned in my opening statement, while 
increasing funding for the other components of the Department 
of the Interior. Would you agree with me that now, during 
historic drought conditions, it is time to prioritize Western 
water infrastructure, not cut infrastructure from it?
    Secretary Haaland. Well, certainly, water is absolutely 
important, and we have team members who work on this issue 
every single day. It is a priority to them and they are in very 
close contact with folks on the ground in those areas.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Madam Secretary. Thank you, 
Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso. Senator 
Heinrich, please.
    Senator Heinrich. Madam Secretary, I want to start by just 
thanking you for your historical leadership in Congress and 
otherwise on protecting the Greater Chaco Canyon area. I want 
to ask you what plans does the Department of the Interior have 
to protect this priceless cultural landscape? And are you 
considering an administrative withdrawal?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator, for that question. 
Thank you for your letter. We appreciate your commitment to 
this beautiful area of our country. Of course, we consider all 
proposals from Members of Congress very carefully.
    The Administration has requested a continuation of the 10-
mile buffer area around Chaco in its budget request for Fiscal 
Year 2022. We will continue to engage with tribes, with 
Congress, and other stakeholders with respect to any other 
future decisions.
    Senator Heinrich. So the BLM [Bureau of Land Management] is 
also still in the process of amending the research management 
plan for the region around Chaco. But pandemic restrictions and 
a lack of broadband internet access--that you are more than 
familiar with--really meant that the public comment and tribal 
consultation processes for the draft plan were largely 
inaccessible back in 2020 to many of my constituents. How can 
you ensure that tribes have a meaningful opportunity to 
participate before that plan amendment is actually finalized?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator. Tribal consultation 
is a top priority for our Department and for this 
Administration. In fact, our Principal Deputy Assistant 
Secretary for Indian Affairs, Bryan Newland, will be in Chaco 
Canyon, I believe, tomorrow. He intends to have meetings with 
tribes. He's meeting the Chairman of the All Pueblo Council of 
Governors there and having meetings with other folks and 
stakeholders on the ground.
    So we will make sure that we use whatever method is best 
for that action, because, yes, we have to meet them where they 
are.
    Senator Heinrich. I appreciate your efforts there very 
much, because those efforts were not evident with the previous 
Secretary and he and I discussed this at length, and it seemed 
to make absolutely no difference. So I appreciate your effort 
and those of Bryan, as well.
    One of the budget challenges at the Department of the 
Interior has been the historic lack of investment in law 
enforcement. There are only about 15 law enforcement officers 
right now, for New Mexico's millions of acres of Bureau of Land 
Management land. That lack of funding often leads to looting of 
priceless cultural resources and a host of other problems. Are 
we spending enough on law enforcement?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you for the question. I 
have firsthand experience with this issue, so I completely 
understand. And it's certainly not just in New Mexico but I met 
with tribes when we were in Colorado and they were experiencing 
the same issue--three officers for a large swath of Colorado. I 
would maybe ask Rachael if she can shed a little bit more light 
on the budget issue here, but I want you to know it's a 
priority for our Department.
    Ms. Taylor. Thank you, Madam Secretary. I think that sets 
off the issue well. Obviously, our law enforcement officers 
have an enormous amount of land to patrol and, you know, varied 
resource challenges on the ground to address.
    I will say that one of the primary investments that we are 
making in this budget speaks to the tribal resources for public 
safety, which has been really important. There is a 13 percent 
increase across the board in public safety programs within BIA 
[Bureau of Indian Affairs], which is definitely, you know, in 
need of additional resources. And that is going to have funding 
that is going to implement increases across the board to 
tribes. It is going to have some targeted increases to deal 
with the recent Supreme Court decision from the McGirt case.
    We have the resources that the Secretary mentioned earlier, 
which is a $5 million increase for the missing and murdered 
indigenous people exercise. And there are some additional 
resources for tribal courts as well.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you--thank you for those 
investments. I think they are incredibly important.
    Madam Secretary, is there a link between climate change 
caused by our overreliance on fossil energy sources and the 
wildfires that we are seeing in the West?
    Secretary Haaland. I am not a scientist, Senator, but it 
certainly does appear that climate change has everything to do 
with the wildfires that we are experiencing and their 
intensity. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. All right. Speaking of wildfires, it is of 
grave concern to many of us in the West, where there is a lot 
of federal land. Would you agree with me, Madam Secretary, that 
water storage is a critical feature of effective fire 
suppression?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, we believe that there are a lot 
of tools in the toolbox to fight these wildland fires and we 
want to make sure that we can use every single one of them.
    Senator Lee. Including that one. Stakeholders in my state 
have indicated to me that the Department of the Interior's NEPA 
[National Environmental Policy Act] review of water storage 
infrastructure projects often presents an obstacle, that NEPA 
is often delaying these projects and providing a significant 
impediment to getting them done. That, in turn, makes us more 
vulnerable to wildfires. I think there are some models that we 
could follow here and build off of. The Federal Highway 
Administration (FHWA), for example, allows states to assume 
NEPA review responsibilities in order to facilitate more 
expeditious review. I believe there are at least seven states 
that do this, including California, Arizona, Utah, Alaska, 
Texas, Ohio, and Florida. As I understand these agreements, 
they work well. Do you believe that states and the Department 
of the Interior could both benefit from a similar arrangement 
when it comes to water infrastructure?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, we are certainly happy to look 
at any ideas that you have and we would be willing to be in 
touch with your office and explore that further.
    Senator Lee. I appreciate that. All right. I think there 
are some who perhaps have a reflexive reluctance to make any 
changes to the way we do NEPA analysis. But it is important to 
remember here that states that currently participate in these 
programs, for example, with the Federal Highway Administration, 
participate in them in a way that still makes them accountable 
to the same standards. So just as NEPA analysis conducted by a 
federal agency can be stopped, because it does not adhere to 
the standards of NEPA, so too, a state-sponsored project is 
held to the same standards accountable in the same courts.
    Now, it has been widely reported that your confidential 
report to President Biden on the Bears Ears National Monument 
and the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument recommended 
a full reexpansion. Now, if we want to work together toward a 
legislative solution, it would be helpful to be able to 
understand the reasoning behind your recommendation. Can you 
tell me when that report will be released?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you so much. The report 
is now in the hands of the President and it would be up to the 
President as to when he makes a decision and/or releases the 
report.
    Senator Lee. The Utah School and Institutional Trust Lands 
Administration, also known as SITLA, owns many thousands of 
acres within the boundaries of the original Bears Ears National 
Monument. So if the monument is reexpanded to encompass its 
original footprint, access to many of those parcels could be 
complicated, or in some cases lost. Can you tell me what your 
recommendation might have been regarding those parcels?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, as I mentioned, the report is 
in the hands of the President. Unfortunately, I am unable to 
share. That is actually with the President and it will be at 
his discretion when the report is released, and when he makes a 
decision.
    Senator Lee. I hope he will take those concerns into 
account, given that they will affect Utah's schoolchildren.
    Energy Fuels, which is a critical minerals company that is 
based in Southern Utah, has made a number of attempts to speak 
with officials at the Department of the Interior and at the 
White House regarding the pending designation. Now, Energy 
Fuels' work will, by all accounts, be critical in the 
development of any sort of new energy technologies. I suspect 
you would agree that, with so few of our critical minerals 
being produced domestically right now, it is critical that we 
work with stakeholders to ensure their success. Can you please 
see to it that it is addressed and that they get substantive 
responses to their questions and concerns?
    Secretary Haaland. Absolutely.
    Senator Lee. A White House official recently stated that 
the nomination of Tracy Stone-Manning to head the Bureau of 
Land Management was ``A massive vetting failure''. Do you agree 
with that characterization?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I know that the President 
nominated her because he believes she is qualified, and I 
believe she is, too.
    Senator Lee. Now, at the time she was nominated, were you 
aware that Ms. Stone-Manning had previously told a newspaper 
that she ``Could have been charged with conspiracy . . . were 
it not for her agreement with the U.S. Attorney'' ?
    Secretary Haaland. No, Senator.
    Senator Lee. Okay. I see my time has expired. Thank you, 
Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Now we have Senator 
Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Madam 
Secretary. I am glad to see the USGS budget includes over $200 
million in new climate-change investments. This includes adding 
more than $42 million to the Climate Adaptation Science 
Centers, with one of the regional centers being located in 
Hawaii.
    The budget also adds $5 million for reducing threats of 
invasive species and wildlife disease in a changing climate, 
noting efforts will initially focus on Alaska, Hawaii, and the 
U.S. ancillary territories in the Pacific and the Northeast. 
The budget also adds $5.4 million to the tools supporting 
conservation planning, monitoring, and projection budget, to 
expand activities in Hawaii, Alaska, and the U.S. territories, 
to map and model past, present, and future landscape 
conditions.
    As you know, invasive species and climate change are 
significantly impacting our ecosystems in Hawaii, whether 
furthering threats to our endangered species, or increasing our 
wildfire risk. Additional support to strengthen efforts to 
mitigate these threats is sorely needed, and I look forward to 
working with you and my colleagues to make sure these programs 
receive strong funding.
    I also note that Hawaii has recently been invited to submit 
a full proposal for the Sentinel Landscapes Partnership, a 
coalition between DOI, USDA, and DOD, as well as state and 
local governments and non-governmental organizations that works 
with private landowners to advance sustainable land management 
practices across military installations and ranges. And we have 
some pretty large military installations in Hawaii.
    A Sentinel Landscape designation in Hawaii could bring 
additional federal resources to strengthen military readiness 
in the Indo-Pacific, conserve natural resources, bolster 
agricultural and forest economics, mitigate wildfire, and 
increase climate-change resilience. A Sentinel Landscape 
designation in Hawaii is a very unique opportunity, and only 
seven landscapes in the nation have received such a 
designation.
    As DOI is the part of the coalition, I would like to 
express my support for Hawaii's proposal and I look forward to 
learning the review committee's final selection. So this is a 
public pitch for Hawaii's submittal.
    Then, I want to get to the National Park Service. The 
Fiscal Year National Park Service budget also makes some 
important investments in Hawaii. This includes over $6 million 
for land acquisition at Haleakala National Park and Puuhonua o 
Honaunau National Park through the more fully funded Land and 
Water Conservation Fund, thanks to the Great American Outdoors 
Act.
    It also includes funding for the Advancing Racial Justice 
and Equity for Underserved Communities initiative to help 
Hawaii parks better engage native Hawaiian communities by 
providing for full-time community liaisons to support all 
Hawaii parks. The state activities include facilitating Native 
Hawaiian participation in park planning, programming, 
operations, recruiting, and outreach. And as a Native American 
yourself, I think you would really understand the need to 
engage native communities in what the Federal Government is 
doing--what the National Park Service is doing. So I am glad to 
see the Park Service making this effort to better engage the 
native Hawaiian community, and I look forward to working with 
you and NPS on this.
    I actually am coming to a question. Increasing visitor 
diversity in public lands--there have been assessments that our 
parks are not accessed by minority groups, other populations, 
and so I would think that the Department would benefit from 
data relating to the diversity of visitors to our national 
parks. And what, if any, obstacles does the Department face in 
collecting such data, and measuring visitation by racial and 
ethnic minorities to public lands? And how can the Department 
and this Committee work together to expand recreational 
opportunities in federal public lands to underrepresented 
populations?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator. That is absolutely 
an important question and something that we support 
wholeheartedly. Increasing the ability of underserved 
communities to use our public lands is absolutely a critical 
focus of this Administration. We will absolutely work with you 
and any Senator on this Committee to move the needle on that. 
And if Rachael has anything to add, I would welcome her to add, 
as well.
    Ms. Taylor. Just to amplify that, as you probably know, the 
President issued an Executive Order early on in the 
Administration that challenged agencies to think about the 
equity issues within the new programs.
    Senator Hirono. Yes.
    Ms. Taylor. And so I am proud to say that the access to 
underserved communities to public lands is one of the issues 
that we have selected to do additional analysis on. And so we 
are in the process of doing that right now, and looking at the 
barriers that we are finding, and looking at the data 
collection issues, which you mentioned. Obviously, you want to 
succeed--you need to measure something. So we are committed to 
working with you and would be happy to keep you abreast as the 
effort moves forward.
    Senator Hirono. Yes. Mr. Chairman, I think 
we would all benefit from the actual measures and outreach 
efforts that you are engaging in to make sure that our parks 
really serve our diverse population in this country. Thank you. 
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Lankford.
    Senator Lankford. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Secretary, it is 
good to see you again. Thanks for being here. I need to walk 
through a couple of the details in your budget. You know, the 
information about the 30 by 30, or America the Beautiful 
initiative--setting aside 30 percent of the land in the United 
States for conservation purposes. Can you give us some 
additional details, briefly, on that, as well? Is that all 
going to be voluntary? It seems to be a voluntary set aside of 
that land. Is that your expectation?
    Secretary Haaland. Yes, Senator. In large part, yes, any 
additional lands--we are inviting private landowners, 
organizations, tribal nations to participate in that and we 
have met with a number of--actually, many stakeholders.
    Senator Lankford. What percentage of America's land is 
already set aside that you would say is already in that 
initiative?
    Secretary Haaland. I understand that, give or take--please 
don't quote me on this--but I think the land is around 18 
percent, perhaps, and the oceans, maybe, 12 or it might be----
    Senator Lankford. So trying to be able to move that from 
that 18 percent to 30 percent, do you expect this to be in 
every state or region, or do you expect it to be nationwide? I 
guess what I am saying is, do you disproportionately expect the 
30 percent of the land set aside to be in Alaska and Utah, 
let's say, and not as much as in New York State?
    Secretary Haaland. Not at all. We expect, and have had 
overwhelming optimism about the idea of it being a nationwide 
effort.
    Senator Lankford. So this would be in each region, each 
state, you would expect that? For states that have higher than 
30 percent already set aside, would you expect them to be able 
to get down to a 30 percent goal, at some point, so they would 
have more private ownership in their area?
    Secretary Haaland. On those specific details, Senator, I 
can't answer, but I get your point and the conversations will 
absolutely continue on this issue.
    Senator Lankford. But you do expect it to be voluntary?
    Secretary Haaland. That is correct. Yes, for private 
landowners, for ranchers, for farmers, for----
    Senator Lankford. Right.
    Secretary Haaland [continuing]. Indian Tribes.
    Senator Lankford. I know in my state, and there are five 
states total that are in the area of what is called the 
``Lesser Prairie-Chicken Area,'' they have done voluntary 
efforts to do mitigation protection of that species for quite a 
while. And now there has been a step-in to say, actually, we 
are going to now impose different measures in there. Where we 
have had, for instance, in my state, a great rebound in 
population, there seems to be an assumption now that it is not 
enough. That in other areas it is not recovering well, but in 
your area, where it is recovering well, in my state, there is 
still going to be kind of a heavy hand to be able to reach in 
and to impose this.
    So what started as voluntary measures now seems to be 
flipping over to mandatory measures for that, which is pretty 
disheartening, obviously, for folks that have done voluntary 
measures for a long time and have seen tremendous recovery of 
that species to try to work to get it off of the endangered 
species or threatened list. That is pretty disheartening to be 
able to see that.
    The landowners in my area are asking for an additional six 
months to say ``Allow us to comment, allow us to show the 
information.'' There is data that is coming out, literally 
right now while Interior is making their decision on what to be 
able to do. There is an annual study that is coming out and 
they need a little bit of time to be able to present it to 
everyone and say ``Don't take what is voluntary and suddenly 
turn it to mandatory before we can hand you this information.'' 
Is that a reasonable request, do you think, for them to get a 
few more months and time to be able to hand over all their 
final information to you?
    Secretary Haaland. I will certainly take your request back 
and we will absolutely consider it. As I have said, you know, 
we are open to ideas and your feedback.
    Senator Lankford. They are not trying to be unreasonable. 
They are just trying to say ``Hey, you are closing this down 
before I can actually hand you this information.'' That is 
unreasonable to them. They are looking for a few more months of 
time to be able to hand over the final report so they can show 
you what is actually happening to the population count there.
    The leasing activities--we have talked a little bit about 
this already, about the leasing activity that has stopped. And 
then, now, a court has said you cannot just keep this stopped 
indefinitely. You had mentioned earlier that it takes a while 
to be able to restart it. When will that restart?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, as I said, we are working on it 
right now. We are complying with the court's order right now.
    Senator Lankford. Will it take a year? Will it take three 
months? Give us a guess.
    Secretary Haaland. I think I will say soon.
    Senator Lankford. So in this quarter?
    Secretary Haaland. Soon. I don't--I cannot answer that 
specifically, but as I said, we are working on it and we are 
happy to stay in touch with you as we make the progress.
    Senator Lankford. So there is just an expectation that--
when a court order stepped in and said ``Hey, this is not legal 
to just stop this indefinitely''--that there isn't actually 
going to be progress made toward this. We know there is an 
interim report that is coming out. We do not know when that is 
coming. Do you have an update of when the interim report is 
coming out?
    Secretary Haaland. As I said, we are finalizing it 
internally at the moment, and I cannot say specifically, but I 
can say soon. It is in its final stages.
    Senator Lankford. And you will expect a final report after 
that interim report?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, we will absolutely let you know 
when we approach that timeframe, and I can say soon.
    Senator Lankford. So there is an interim report that is 
soon, a final report that is soon. Do you expect the decision 
on lease sales after the final report or after the interim 
report or before?
    Secretary Haaland. Well, after the final report is moved 
forward, we will have made decisions and be able to implement 
whatever changes are perhaps necessary and move that forward.
    Senator Lankford. Soon?
    Secretary Haaland. Soon.
    Senator Lankford. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Cortez Masto.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary 
Haaland, thank you so much for being here. Let me say, I 
appreciate the comments so far. The increases to the Department 
of the Interior's budget--particularly your focus on our tribal 
communities, missing and murdered indigenous women and 
children. Thank you so much.
    There is an area I do want to focus on where there is a 
decrease. And it has been touched on a little bit here in the 
Committee, and this has to do with the drought along the 
Colorado River.
    As you know, the Colorado is the lifeblood for many western 
states. It is the economic engine of the Southwest, and it 
supplies drinking water to 36 million Americans. And that use 
of that water outstrips the supply. The seven basin states, 
water users, the federal agencies, and Mexico have a history of 
close cooperation, which has become ever more important as 
drought and increased water demands have left the two big 
reservoirs--that is Lake Powell and Lake Mead--at all-time 
lows. And as you well know, it is expected that a shortage will 
be declared at Lake Mead next month and that predetermined 
water allocation reductions will go into effect next year.
    Here is what I am concerned about as I look at the budget. 
For the Bureau of Reclamation, it shows that for the Fiscal 
Year 2022 request, there is an eight-percent decrease in the 
budget for the Bureau of Reclamation, particularly when it 
comes to water and related resources. For those water and 
energy management and development line-item resources, there is 
a seven-percent decrease.
    So can I ask you, how does the Department of the Interior 
ensure long-term reliability of the Colorado, particularly when 
we are focused on drought, we are seeing more wildfires in the 
West than we have ever seen before, particularly in Nevada. 
Just in 2020 alone there were 800 wildfires, and we need water 
to fight these fires, as well. Please talk to me about how the 
Department intends to help us address this drought issue when 
there is a decrease in the budget for the Bureau of 
Reclamation.
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you so much for the 
question and you are absolutely right. It is incredibly 
important. I am going to let Rachael answer that so she can 
give specific details.
    Ms. Taylor. Thank you, Madam Secretary, and thank you so 
much for the question. I think one point about the budget--just 
to set the stage is, you know, we view the budget as the whole 
budget, which includes the discretionary funding. It also 
includes the amounts that were provided through the President's 
American Jobs Plan, which the Committee is now working to act 
upon. So I would say, you know, your concerns are well noted on 
the discretionary side.
    You know, the Committee has taken the President's jobs plan 
and expanded it much further to a larger water infrastructure 
proposal, which, you know, obviously reflects the gravity of 
the need on the ground. I mean, certainly what is playing out 
on the Colorado River Basin--we are seeing it in basins across 
the West. The Secretary referenced the ``All of the tools in 
the toolbox'' approach. And so I think that is the ethos that 
we are bringing to the table--that we are willing to look at 
the individual solutions everywhere, and I know that we want to 
work with this Committee to make sure that we are putting the 
resources on the ground where they are going to have the most 
impact.
    Senator Cortez Masto. So just so I understand, you are 
hopeful that in the American Jobs Plan and legislation we still 
have to pass--that will address some of the concerns that I 
just talked about, when it comes to drought and what we are 
hearing here about preserving the water along the Colorado. Is 
that right?
    Ms. Taylor. The President's proposal had strong investments 
and I know Congress is looking to----
    Senator Cortez Masto. Let me talk about one of those 
because I do want to bring it up. We do need bold solutions and 
that is why I introduced the Large Scale Water Recycling 
Project and Drought Resiliency Investment Act. It establishes a 
competitive grant program within the Bureau of Reclamation for 
large-scale water recycling projects that have a total 
estimated cost of at least $500 million. The bill authorizes 
$750 million for the program. This is necessary. These types of 
bold programs are necessary to bring new water into the system. 
And there is a partnership already, between Nevada and 
Colorado, just on one large-scale project alone.
    And so I am hopeful that the Administration, the Department 
of the Interior--you will support this type of legislation 
because this is the time for us to think bold and big and this 
the time for the Federal Government, the states, Mexico, all of 
the partners along the Colorado to really start working 
together to address what we know and have concerns about, which 
is the drought that we see in the western states now. So I am 
hopeful you will be there to support this legislation and many 
other innovative ideas.
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Senator. And of 
course, I am always willing to work with you. Thank you.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Hyde-Smith.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, 
Secretary Haaland, for appearing before the Committee today to 
talk about these important issues. I am really thankful that we 
were able to discuss some of these concerns about a month ago 
in the Appropriations Subcommittee Hearing on Interior. 
However, it is concerning to me that many of the questions and 
concerns my colleagues and I brought up in that hearing still 
lack answers today, such as, over the oil and gas leasing ban. 
And as you are well aware, a federal court judge ruled the 
pause on new leases unlawful. Yet there has been no response or 
action taken by your Department to follow the law.
    I am aware that the interim report--which is said to 
include initial findings on the status of the federal 
conventional energy programs and other recommendations for 
Congress--is going to be released, but I just feel that this 
Committee needs answers today and it certainly deserves 
transparency. So with that, I am going to go with my questions.
    I would like to discuss the report that your Department is 
set to release. For clarification, is this report a final 
report or is it an interim report?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you for the question. And 
the report that we are set to release is an interim report and 
it will be released soon.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. But it is totally an interim report. 
Does this report bring the Department into compliance with 
current law?
    Secretary Haaland. We are actually in compliance with the 
court order, currently. We are complying with the court order 
right now. As we speak, the Department is working. As I 
mentioned, there is a lot of work that goes into even having a 
lease sale. And so they are complying with the court order now, 
today.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. So the ban has been released?
    Secretary Haaland. I suppose that the pause that you are 
referring to, that President Biden ordered in his Executive 
Order is--I suppose it's in effect. I mean, you can say that as 
soon as one lease sale happens that the pause is over. But what 
I can say is, we are complying with the court order and we are 
doing the work necessary to move in that direction.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. So the pause is not in place at this 
time?
    Secretary Haaland. Well, technically, I suppose you could 
say the pause is still in place. However, we are complying with 
the court order to move forward on releasing the report and 
moving this issue forward.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Does the report contain formal, binding 
decisions, or anything that will be enforceable?
    Secretary Haaland. As I mentioned earlier, Senator, the 
report is in its final, you know, internal--the final internal 
draft, and I am unable to comment on it at the moment--on the 
details of it.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Okay. And what action has the 
Department taken to be in compliance with the judge's ruling? 
Have there been any decisions to reinstate lease sales? But 
specifically, I am referring to lease sale 257.
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator. Unfortunately, I 
cannot comment specifically on the question that you are 
asking. We'd be more than happy to be back in touch with you as 
soon as we do have specific answers to your questions. I know 
that, overall, the Department is working on ensuring that we 
are complying with the court order.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. And with the lease sale 257, are you 
familiar with that lease sale--257?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I understand the question you 
are asking and I want to assure you that we are doing our best 
to move forward.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Okay, because I see my time is out. 
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Hickenlooper.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Madam Secretary, first, before I do 
anything, I want to express my appreciation and gratitude to 
you for coming out to Colorado during your confirmation week. 
If you remember, we encouraged and made that offer and 
encouraged your early visit to Colorado and the entire state, I 
think, appreciates it. We talked about public lands, the CORE 
Act, wildfires. And I thought again and again we saw genuine 
bipartisanship and I know a lot of people in Colorado were 
impressed that we had Republicans and Democrats and 
Independents--everyone--at those meetings, all working for that 
sense of clean air, clean water, and public lands.
    I also got the sense that you saw and heard clearly the 
long-term value that having a western presence holds for the 
BLM, by making sure that the employees are close to the land 
they manage. And I think you heard clearly the meaning that 
has--the importance of that to the local community. So I think, 
obviously, that presence is a shared value and is of real 
importance.
    So I wanted to ask you of some of your takeaways from that 
trip, particularly from our time and conversations in Grand 
Junction.
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you so much, Senator, and again, I 
appreciate your hospitality while we were in Colorado. It was a 
really, really wonderful time.
    And of course, I was thrilled to have opportunities to have 
those meetings. We met with the staff, both in person and 
remotely. At the BLM headquarters--we were happy to be with you 
during the public meeting, as well.
    I think my takeaways are that we need to come to a decision 
fairly soon. It is important for folks to be able to know and 
understand what their task at hand is, and the way we do that 
is just to make sure that folks can hunker down and know what 
they are doing.
    So we are taking all those--I got more--in fact, I got more 
comments by staff, through email, by the time I got home. And 
so we are looking at all of those and sort of assessing all of 
the comments that we heard and just appreciate that 
opportunity.
    Senator Hickenlooper. I heard repeatedly that your 
willingness to listen--I suspect you probably got more comments 
than you knew what to do with.
    I would be remiss if I did not put in that additional plug 
that, when that transfer of the BLM headquarters took place to 
Colorado, there has been a lot of discussion about how poorly 
it was done and in many ways certain of the processes which 
were enacted seemed to actually create unhappiness and were 
designed to get people to leave the BLM and to make it less 
functional. And I want to make sure that I reemphasize that 
that has nothing to do with Grand Junction and the appreciation 
of that community and the relationship that community has 
developed with BLM over this past year, and what a great sign 
that is for the relationship with the West, with the BLM, where 
most of the land is.
    Let me switch to--anyway, I do not want to belabor that 
point. I know pretty much everywhere we went in Colorado we 
talked about the BLM, I think.
    Anyway, as we discussed also, too many underprivileged 
communities grow up without any access to outdoor spaces. And 
your support for the Outdoor Recreation Legacy Partnership 
Program, from your days in the House, and more recently as 
Secretary, has really helped us imagine how to close that 
nature gap.
    But obviously, we still have work ahead of us. Senator 
Padilla and I have championed a one-time investment of $500 
million in local parks and open space as part of the Parks, 
Jobs, and Equity Act. Do you see this funding for local parks 
and connections into disadvantaged communities as a worthwhile 
infrastructure priority?
    Secretary Haaland. I absolutely believe that every American 
deserves to be in open space and it not be a chore to get 
there, yes.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Okay. Well, we share that, and I 
think that this is a great opportunity to do that. I am pretty 
much out of time. I do want to say that I heard, at least four 
or five times, and I think I would have heard it 100 times if I 
could have had more ears, that people said they would remember 
the Secretary of the Interior coming to some of these small 
towns--Palisade, Colorado and Ridgway--where people said they 
will remember this moment for the rest of their lives. It 
really does reflect very well on you and the Department of the 
Interior.
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you. Thank you, Senator.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Murkowski.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Madam 
Secretary, welcome, good morning. There has been a lot of 
conversation this morning, or certainly a lot of questions with 
regards to the oil and gas review and the timing on that. Your 
Department has consistently said that this is going to be 
released early summer. Well, we are beyond early summer.
    Last month, you testified before the House Natural 
Resources Committee that it will be coming soon. Last week, you 
were quoted again that it will be ``soon.'' You have replied to 
Senators Manchin, Barrasso, Lankford, and Smith this morning 
that it will be soon. So I am not going to ask you when you 
think it is going to be coming because I think I know what your 
answer is, and I still do not--none of us know what your answer 
is. And so I hope you can sense the frustration that so many of 
us have in anticipating this and wondering when we will be able 
to expect that you will be in compliance with the judge's 
order.
    What I would like to ask of you, and you can provide me 
this in writing, is a list of stakeholders and entities that 
you have met with in Alaska, including state officials, ANCs, 
tribes, and private companies, as you have been doing this 
outreach for the review. And I would appreciate that in a 
timely manner.
    I want to switch to a subject that Senator Lankford touched 
on and this is the 30 by 30 program that has now been rebranded 
``America the Beautiful.'' I have shared with you and with 
others in the Department my concern and my great frustration 
with the 17(d)(1) withdrawals in the State of Alaska. These are 
the millions of acres that are in restricted status, despite 
the fact that the report commissioned by Congress specifically 
said that these withdrawals have outlived their intended 
purpose. They need to be lifted now.
    The concern that I have now is that one of the reasons 
there may be hesitancy on lifting these ``d-1'' withdrawals is 
out of a fear that any measurable progress on the 30 by 30 goal 
could be impacted. You have kind of suggested to Senator 
Lankford, in terms of how--I am not quite sure how the 
Department is measuring the total numbers of lands being 
conserved under this program. I think we have, again, asked and 
not really been answered on that. But can you tell me whether 
any of the 17(d)(1) withdrawals that are lifted would be 
counted against the 30 by 30 goal?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I can't give you an answer on 
that. I don't think--in the conversations that my staff has had 
with stakeholders regarding 30 by 30, that issue has never come 
up.
    Senator Murkowski. Okay. I will be pursuing that to try to 
get a little more definition to that because that is one of the 
only things I can think of, in terms of why we have been 
further delayed on the d-1 withdrawals.
    I want to speak to an issue that I am sure you can 
anticipate. Senator Hickenlooper recognized that you have been 
to small communities in Colorado. Know that we are looking 
forward to your visit. I understand it will probably be some 
time in September. And part of that visit, as you have promised 
me and the Committee, is that you will take that opportunity to 
visit with the people of King Cove.
    Your Department has been working with the State of Alaska, 
the Department of Transportation, regarding these special use 
permits to conduct the surveys for the road that we have been 
talking about. We have had some hiccups, but I think initially 
your staff was really working with mine. They were working with 
the State of Alaska to ensure that these permits could be 
issued in time for the summer field season. Everything seemed 
to be going, really, pretty much on track until the beginning 
of this month. And now we find out that literally at the 11th 
hour of these permits being issued, the state already has 
contractors at the site preparing to begin to work, and we find 
out that the Department has rescinded the January 15 
secretarial memo that was issued by Secretary Bernhardt. This 
was the basis for these permits being issued.
    In fairness, the state was not alerted that it had been 
withdrawn. We were not alerted that it had been withdrawn. We 
had to find out that it had been requested through a media 
source. So now the Department is shifting this whole process 
for these permits by telling the state that Fish and Wildlife 
now needs to do a refuge compatibility analysis, a minimum 
requirements analysis, which may require public comment and 
review.
    So we have a situation here where, up until just literally 
days ago--maybe a week and a half ago--your Department was 
working with the state. They were working with us for six 
months to shepherd these permits. And not once was there any 
indication that these permits would not be issued, or that 
there was a problem for the basis of the permits, and that the 
process was effectively going to need to be changed.
    We have not been given any reason why the process would be 
changed for issuing the permits, or why the limited use of 
helicopters would now be denied, even though helicopters have 
been used for survey work in the refuge previously. So I just 
have to ask the question, what is going on here? Why was the 
state not notified that this January 15th memo had been 
rescinded?
    And really what I need from you is, I need a commitment 
that these permits are going to be issued, they are going to be 
issued, not soon, but they are going to be issued in the next 
two weeks and that the state be allowed to complete their 
survey work during this field season as everybody had 
anticipated would be done.
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I will find out. I don't know 
why the state wasn't notified, at this moment. But I will find 
that out and I will--yes, I will need to get to the bottom of 
that. I will take this issue back. I absolutely understand and 
we will make it a priority and talk about this as soon as I am 
back at the Department.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Madam Secretary. I would like 
to provide you with just a timeline of all of the assurances 
that we have received in the past six months that everything 
was on track. I think that that will probably help you and your 
team. It certainly has led to the confusion and the 
consternation that has put us at this place today.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Kelly.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, 
Secretary Haaland. Great to see you again and congratulations 
on your confirmation as Secretary of the Interior.
    It is timely that you are testifying today on the 
Department's budget. At the same time, we are working on this 
infrastructure legislation. I would like to compare the 
Administration's budget request to the bipartisan 
infrastructure bill that is taking shape and your views here 
would be appreciated.
    I will start with the drought. For Fiscal Year 2022, the 
Administration requests $1.6 billion for the Bureau of 
Reclamation, the Department's primary water agency for western 
states. The American Jobs Plan proposes an additional $2.5 
billion for Reclamation to cover water efficiency and 
recycling. It also covers tribal water settlements and dam 
safety. I, personally, do not think that is enough. Across the 
West and in Arizona especially, we have hundreds of aging 
Reclamation projects, dam and irrigation canals that need 
repair. These are often leaking and they are inefficient. We 
also need resources to protect aquatic species impacted by the 
Reclamation projects, including fish and wildlife on the 
Colorado River.
    The bipartisan bill reported by this Committee earlier this 
month provides about $8.3 billion for Reclamation. This 
includes funding the water recycling, ecosystem restoration, 
tribal projects, and also Reclamation's aging infrastructure 
account that, by the way, has never been funded before. Another 
infrastructure priority in our rural communities--I mean, they 
are threatened by wildfire. The Committee's bill proposes over 
$1.1 billion to the Department of the Interior for wildfire and 
fuels management for burned-area recovery and for federal 
firefighter pay.
    By comparison, DOI received $220 million for wildfire fuels 
management last year. And according to the Administration's 
budget, that amount would treat burnable vegetation across 1.7 
million acres of federal and tribal lands.
    So Secretary Haaland, would you agree that a lot of good 
work in drought and wildfire resiliency can be accomplished 
under the bipartisan infrastructure proposal?
    Secretary Haaland. Absolutely.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you.
    Secretary Haaland. Yes.
    Senator Kelly. We are hoping and working today, still, to 
try to get this done.
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you.
    Senator Kelly. Very important for our country. It is 
certainly important for the West, especially for the State of 
Arizona.
    The bipartisan bill would also authorize $3 billion to fund 
cleanup of abandoned hardrock mines on federal, state, and 
tribal lands through an amendment co-sponsored by Senator 
Heinrich, Senator Daines, and myself. Arizona has roughly 
24,000 abandoned mines that we know of. Some 500 of these are 
cold war era uranium mines on the Navajo Nation. So we need to 
fund the hardrock mine cleanup program. Can we count on your 
support for these efforts?
    Secretary Haaland. We absolutely support cleaning up 
abandoned mines. Yes--yes, absolutely.
    Senator Kelly. The 500 uranium mines on the Navajo Nation 
has been a historic failure of government to not address this 
adequately. It is affecting the health of so many of the Navajo 
people and it needs to be addressed. So Senators Daines and 
Heinrich and I have put forth this legislation that would 
authorize the funds to clean up these hardrock mines. So thank 
you for your support. I yield back the remainder of my time.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Now we have Senator 
Daines.
    Senator Daines. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Thank you, 
Secretary Haaland for being here today.
    I want to talk about one of my favorite subjects. It is the 
grizzly bear. The successful recovery of the grizzly bear in 
the Greater Yellowstone and North Continental Divide epitomizes 
what the authors of the Endangered Species Act first 
envisioned. What they did not envision, however, was for these 
listing decisions to become hyper-politicized and to bounce 
around in the courts.
    Here are the facts. In the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem, 
in 1975--and these are the Fish Wildlife Service's numbers--
there were 136 grizzly bears, according to their numbers. The 
criteria for recovery was 390. They raised that to 500 back in 
2006. And today, the FWS number is 728, nearly 50 percent above 
the already raised recovery target. In the Northern Continental 
Divide ecosystem--that is up along the Rocky Mountain Front in 
Central Montana--the criteria was 391 bears. Today, it is 
1,068.
    It has been over 16 years since the Greater Yellowstone 
grizzly bear was determined to be recovered--16 years. And 
while these two recovered populations languish on the 
endangered species list, conflicts with grizzlies are on the 
rise. In Montana, we have tragically already had two grizzly-
human fatalities this year. There was a bicyclist who was 
bicycling across our state. She had a tent pitched in Ovando, 
Montana, back behind the museum there. It is a small town. And 
the grizzly bear came into town and ripped her out of the tent 
and brutally killed her.
    Now, Montana has a proven track record of conserving 
recovered predators and is more than ready to assume 
responsibility of managing the grizzly bear. For the sake of 
our communities, for our ranchers, for other wildlife, and the 
bear itself, it is time to restore management back to the 
state.
    Secretary Haaland, a simple yes or no question. Do you 
agree with the wildlife biologists from your own agency that 
the bear has recovered in these two ecosystems?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, if you'll permit me to just say 
I'm sorry for the loss of your constituents. It's a very sad 
story. I could--yes, the ongoing recovery is a remarkable 
success for the Act.
    Senator Daines. Okay, so you would acknowledge that the 
bear has recovered--exceeded the recovery targets in these two 
ecosystems?
    Secretary Haaland. It sounds like the Endangered Species 
Act has done what it was meant to do.
    Senator Daines. I think that is exactly right. We would 
heartily agree with that, that the numbers--it is not that 
complicated. There are targets and then, you take the FWS 
numbers, which I think many believe are on the conservative 
side, but they are still way above the recovery targets that 
were even raised once before, certainly in the Greater 
Yellowstone ecosystem. So thank you, that you agree with 
these--they have recovered in these two ecosystems.
    Do you agree with that statement, and if so, would you 
support my legislation to codify the Fish and Wildlife 
Service's 2017 rule, delisting the grizzly bear in the Greater 
Yellowstone ecosystem?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, we are more than happy to speak 
with you, to work with you, to make sure that we are listening. 
We are always happy to work with Congress, and this issue is no 
different.
    Senator Daines. I appreciate it. I think the frustration 
for so many Montanans is that you have individuals who are a 
long ways away, here in DC, who might not always be able to 
find Montana on a map, who are dictating policies that are 
affecting Montanans greatly when they look at their 
quantitative data that suggests it is very clear and compelling 
that the bear has recovered. We should celebrate that, that the 
bear has recovered, and transfer the management of the species 
back to the state.
    I want to talk about 30 by 30 for a moment. It has been six 
months since the Biden Administration first announced the 30 by 
30 initiative, and yet, few if any details of the plan have 
come out. The Administration says it is going to be locally 
led. It is going to incorporate working lands. But anybody with 
a public lands background knows that there are multiple 
environmental and land planning laws already in place to ensure 
this is already the case.
    Secretary Haaland, I asked you a similar question during 
your confirmation hearing, but I would like to try to see if I 
can get a clearer answer. Given the many planning and 
environmental laws guiding actions on federal land--NEPA, 
Federal Land Policy Management Act, ESA--in what meaningful way 
are locally led collaborations not already guiding public land 
conservation?
    Secretary Haaland. Well, I believe very strongly that a lot 
of locally led folks are participating in conversations about 
our public lands. And that is why we have been careful to 
ensure that we are bringing those folks to the table for this 
issue, as well.
    Senator Daines. Right. Mr. Chairman, I am in extra innings 
here. Thank you for your grace and I will turn it back to you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Marshall.
    Senator Marshall. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Secretary 
Haaland, welcome back to the Committee and congratulations to 
you on your successful nomination. We know we are going to have 
a lot of fun working together and just look forward--we agree 
on so many goals together.
    Probably two hotspots back home are the size of the federal 
budget and 30 by 30. Your budget asks for an increase of 17 
percent. That is $2.5 billion. Are there plans in your budget 
to take some of those monies to implement 30 by 30, and what 
does that look like to you all?
    Secretary Haaland. I appreciate the question, Senator, and 
thank you, also, for the card that you sent over to my office. 
I appreciated that very much.
    With respect to 30 by 30, of course, we have felt that it 
is, you know, it is a collaborative initiative. We hope that 
many people--private landowners or, you know, organizations, 
farmers, ranchers will all participate in that. And we have 
done much to ensure that those conversations move forward.
    With respect to details on that, I would love to ask for 
Rachael's help, and she can perhaps provide more details.
    Ms. Taylor. Hi, Senator. Thanks so much for the question. 
We have spoken this morning already about how the initiative 
itself is in development, including what methods are going to 
be used to measure success and what the shape will be going 
forward.
    I think, to the point about the locally led conservation, 
you know, there are two pieces to it. One is that we do want to 
have better data collection across landscape levels to see how 
lands are being managed and conserved. And so there are some 
resources within the U.S. Geological Survey budget that support 
ongoing efforts to support databases to look at land cover.
    The other issue is the partnership programs that are so 
strong in the Department. I mean, 30 by 30 amplifies 
longstanding programs, state and tribal wildlife grant 
programs, joint venture programs in the Fish and Wildlife 
Service. And this is how we are reaching into some of the 
partner programs on the ground.
    Senator Marshall. So my question was, do you think that you 
will be using that extra $2.5 billion to purchase lands?
    Ms. Taylor. So the land acquisition budget right now is 
funded through the Great American Outdoors Act, which fully 
funded through--through that. So that is our acquisition 
budget, which is done through the mandatory----
    Senator Marshall. When it comes to CRP and other 
conservation programs, within your concepts of 30 by 30, will 
this all be voluntary, or will folks be forced to participate?
    Ms. Taylor. It is intended to be voluntary and locally led 
and to pull in programs. You mentioned the USDA program and we 
are looking across landscapes and at different federal 
partners, as well.
    Senator Marshall. Okay. Secretary, I would like to go back 
to the Endangered Species Act and forgive me if you have 
answered this already. But how do you measure success? How do 
you see success? You know, the grizzly bear is one example. The 
lesser prairie-chicken is another example where, when there 
have been private-government partnerships, we have seen some 
success. And of course, Mother Nature and rain help a little 
bit, as well. We know very well how to get on that list. How do 
we figure out how to get off the list?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I know that the Endangered 
Species Act is guided to a large degree by science and, of 
course, the data and the science are certainly important in 
making any of those determinations.
    I also--I mean, we have to add in another factor for so 
much of what we do, and that is climate change. We have seen 
how devastating climate change has been to the West, with 
respect to the drought that we are--the severe, extreme--I do 
not know how many more adjectives we can find to describe the 
type of drought we are experiencing in the West right now.
    And so all of those factors--you know, part of it, of 
course, is making sure that they have the habitat that they 
need. And in some places, yes, species are doing better than 
they are in other places. So taken as a whole, that is the job 
for the scientists and we listen carefully.
    Senator Marshall. Okay. Forgive me, a last question. Let's 
go back to CRP. Are you aware of the upstream and downstream 
economic consequences if we would take a third of the farmland 
in Kansas, or pastureland, and put it into conservation, that 
we would end up just needing to close high schools and, at 
least, every third hospital?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you for that information, Senator.
    Senator Marshall. Okay. Thank you.
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Marshall. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Senator Cassidy.
    Senator Cassidy. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Madam Secretary, 
thank you for being here.
    You just mentioned in your last response to Senator 
Marshall that your analysis will factor in the climate change 
issue. We have seen, as this pause has continued, that the 
President is now, basically, begging OPEC to increase 
production because he wishes to hold down gasoline prices. And 
yet, we know from an Obama-era study, that oil produced in the 
Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) of the United States is the most 
environmentally, if you will, lowest carbon footprint per unit 
of production, of any oil that comes to our shores.
    Now, does your analysis include that, since clearly the 
Administration is begging for oil to be produced elsewhere in 
the world, that if it is produced in the OCS, that it actually 
has a lower carbon footprint per unit of production of any oil 
that comes to our shores? Does your analysis include that?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I know that we have a terrific 
team at the Department of the Interior, and I am positive that 
they are factoring in everything they need to in any decisions 
that they make.
    Senator Cassidy. Now, you are being far less specific than 
you were just with Senator Marshall, which always raises my 
kind of ``Spidey web'' senses a little bit because it seems as 
if the answer to Marshall was, boy, we are looking at climate 
change as a factor in these forest fires. But then, when I ask 
if the specific analysis shows data previously developed by the 
Obama Administration, the answer is more vague.
    Can I ask you to make sure that the scientists doing this 
analysis both take into consideration this previous Obama-era 
finding, they make explicit that it is used, and it turns out 
that the decision to continue the pause--which, by the way, 
seems to be illegal--is made, that this is explained, why it is 
being extended, in the light of this fact, which I just 
suggested?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator. I will make sure I 
take this back to the Department.
    Senator Cassidy. Thank you. Now, we know that the pause is 
effectively defined. The federal judge has ordered a continue. 
But nonetheless, we have a new five-year leasing plan that will 
soon be required. Can you tell us what is the current status of 
developing the new five-year program and does the Department 
think it will have a final, new leasing program by the end of 
next June?
    Secretary Haaland. I was aware that the five-year plan, 
from 2017-2022, is coming to an endpoint and we do not yet have 
a specific timeline to release a proposed plan. But they are 
complying with the court decision. They are working on that, as 
well.
    Senator Cassidy. Of course. The court decision, as I 
understand, pertains to the current plan. I am speaking of the 
next five-year plan.
    Secretary Haaland. Yes, they are working on that next five-
year plan.
    Senator Cassidy. And have you started the programmatic 
environmental impact statement?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I'd be happy to go back this 
afternoon, have a conversation with the Principal Deputy 
Assistant Secretary and make sure that you get an answer to 
your question.
    Senator Cassidy. Thank you. Again, you brought up the issue 
of climate change and how you are factoring all that in. During 
a recent hearing, the BOEM [Bureau of Ocean Energy Management] 
Director, Ms. Amanda Lefton, suggested that if we--you know, my 
words, not hers--but that if you leave it in the ground, you 
are going to decrease demand. That seems, again, a little bit--
now, the Administration is begging OPEC to increase production, 
improving OPEC nations' economies, while at the same time, they 
are pausing development in our lands. There is a heck of a lot 
in there that the American workers should be angry about.
    But what are your thoughts on the need to influence demand 
in order to reduce climate change risk? Should we leave it in 
the ground?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, as I have said in my 
confirmation hearing and many times since, the gas and oil 
industry will go on for years to come. I don't see an end to--
--
    Senator Cassidy. I get that, but that is not my point, 
really. The question is--because, clearly, Valero can import 
oil from Venezuela or from OPEC. Venezuela is part of OPEC, but 
from the Middle East, as opposed to bringing it onshore from 
the Gulf of Mexico. So they will be in business. The question 
is, are we going to produce the oil with our environmental 
standards, which are the best in the world? Or are we going to 
produce it with those of nations which take less care for 
emissions and which currently, the Administration is begging 
for them to increase production? So again, just to put a point 
on it, does it decrease demand if we do not produce U.S. oil?
    Secretary Haaland. I wish I were an economist and could 
answer you, in all certainty. My understanding is that if we 
move forward with our plans to create green energy 
opportunities for our country, that there will likely be less 
demand.
    Senator Cassidy. Not quite the answer, but I will not 
belabor. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Senator Hoeven.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary, thank 
you for being here today. We appreciate it.
    I have talked to you before about the Mandan, Hidatsa, and 
Arikara (MHA) Nation in North Dakota. They produce about 
300,000 barrels of oil a day, and much of that goes through the 
Dakota Access Pipeline (DAPL). And so it is a very, very 
important source of revenue, jobs, and economic activity to the 
reservation. And they depend on the Dakota Access Pipeline to 
get their oil to market. And this is light, sweet crude. This 
is not the heavy crudes. This is very light, sweet crudes and 
we do directional drilling and have very good environmental 
standards.
    And so my question is, have you been briefed on the 
importance of energy development at MHA Nation, including their 
dependence on DAPL to ensure their trust resources are 
delivered to market? Have you been briefed on it?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I have not had any meetings 
with MHA, but none of the gas leases, or any of the pause that 
the President put on the gas leases are affecting tribal 
nations at all.
    Senator Hoeven. Right. But I just want to make sure you are 
aware of their energy development and that you have had 
briefing on----
    Secretary Haaland. I am aware that tribes do develop 
natural resources.
    Senator Hoeven. Well, and even in your own state, you know 
how much oil and gas development there is in your home State of 
New Mexico?
    Secretary Haaland. Yes.
    Senator Hoeven. And are you committed to working with the 
MHA Nation to make sure that they can continue their efforts 
and the importance to them of it for their economy?
    Secretary Haaland. I know that we always work to ensure 
that we are consulting with tribes and I believe that is our 
position.
    Senator Hoeven. In regard to the moratorium that the 
Administration has placed on oil and gas leasing, when will the 
Department resume scheduling lease sales?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, in answer to your question, we 
are complying with the court order currently and the Department 
in that area is working to move that forward. I cannot give you 
a specific date. I wish I could but, unfortunately, I cannot.
    Senator Hoeven. Do you think that the uncertainty that 
creates has hindered the development of domestic energy 
resources?
    Secretary Haaland. I would like to just point out that, as 
you know, and I have said many times, the pause was on new 
leases, not existing leases. There are thousands of permits and 
leases available right now for production.
    Senator Hoeven. Do you think it is better that we develop 
our oil and gas resources here, or rely on imports from foreign 
sources, like Russia and OPEC?
    Secretary Haaland. Well, as I have mentioned, also many 
times, this industry will go on for years to come and we will 
absolutely do our job as best we can.
    Senator Hoeven. I don't know if this situation exists in 
New Mexico, but I would guess it does. In a lot of cases in 
North Dakota, we have privately owned minerals, or maybe even 
minerals owned by Three Affiliated Tribes on reservation. And 
at the same time, we have minerals that may be owned by BLM, or 
some other federal entity, and no surface ownership by the 
federal entity--no surface ownership. In those cases, those 
minerals are held up from development--those private minerals, 
because of the federal moratorium and there is no surface 
ownership. Do you think that is fair to those private owners, 
which could be Native American owners?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I would have to get you a 
specific answer for your question and we'd be happy to send 
that to your office.
    Senator Hoeven. But it is something you might be willing to 
look into, just on the basis of fairness?
    Secretary Haaland. Yes, of course.
    Senator Hoeven. Public safety is a huge issue across the 
country, and certainly in Indian country. One of the things 
that we worked on was to develop, at Camp Grafton, law 
enforcement training for BIA law enforcement officers. We think 
it is incredibly important because we have a tremendous 
shortage of BIA law enforcement officers, particularly 
throughout the Upper Great Plains. Are you willing to help us 
continue that effort and are you willing to support that 
effort?
    Secretary Haaland. Absolutely. That is an issue that 
happens across the country. I met with tribes in Colorado 
recently and they are facing the same issue. So yes.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you. Really important, I think, to 
help with public safety issues. So I appreciate that very much.
    Secretary Haaland. Yes.
    Senator Hoeven. The last question I have is in regard to--
in the Theodore Roosevelt National Park, we are working with 
Interior and DOT to fix the Scenic Loop. It goes through the 
whole park, and people can drive through and see buffalo and, 
you know, elk and wild horses, and it is just phenomenal. But 
we need to get that fixed. That is underway. I just would ask 
for your continued commitment and support to get that done as 
soon as we can for the benefit of everyone who visits that 
national park.
    Secretary Haaland. We'd be happy to work with you on any of 
your national parks, Senator.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, I appreciate it.
    Secretary Haaland. Yes.
    The Chairman. Senator Lee, for a second round.
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Secretary Haaland, in our last round of questioning, I 
think 
we finished up as I was asking you questions about Tracy Stone-
Manning. You declined to say whether you agreed with the 
statement issued recently by a White House official, indicating 
that the nomination of Ms. Stone-Manning was a massive vetting 
failure.
    Now, in a questionnaire submitted to this Committee, Ms. 
Stone-Manning suggested that she had never been the target of 
an investigation. Since that time, of course, we have learned 
that she was, in fact, issued a target letter, indicating that 
she would be indicted on criminal charges related to the tree 
spiking. Were you or the Department aware of those details 
prior to her nomination?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I was not aware of those 
details.
    Senator Lee. Were you or the Department aware that Ms. 
Stone-Manning had hired an attorney and negotiated an immunity 
deal prior to testifying in the tree-spiking case?
    Secretary Haaland. No, Senator, I did not know that.
    Senator Lee. Did you or the Department advise or in any way 
support Ms. Stone-Manning in indicating to this Committee that 
she had never been under investigation?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I have not met, nor spoken to 
Ms. Stone-Manning. I understand that is the President's nominee 
and that she is qualified to do a job that he has asked her to 
do. And that's pretty much that.
    Senator Lee. What about the Department?
    Secretary Haaland. The Department?
    Senator Lee. Have others at the Department done that?
    Secretary Haaland. I can't answer that. We'd be happy to 
try to answer any other specific questions you have on the 
record, though.
    Senator Lee. As I recall, at the time Ms. Stone-Manning was 
nominated to be the head of the Bureau of Land Management, you 
had been in office for about a month as Secretary of the 
Interior. Were you aware of public statements that Ms. Stone-
Manning had made only months before her nomination, calling for 
homes built in forests to burn in forest fires?
    Secretary Haaland. I had not read any of that, Senator, 
and--I mean, yes, I am the Secretary of the Interior, but she 
is the President's nominee and I am not in a--I mean, I didn't 
nominate her. I am here to move the Department forward on the 
President's priorities, and that is what I am focused on at the 
moment.
    Senator Lee. Yes. I understand. I understand and I suspect 
you can also understand why, as a member of this Committee and 
as a Senator representing a state, two-thirds of which is owned 
by the Federal Government, and 40 percent of which is under the 
control of the Bureau of Land Management, why I might be 
concerned about that. And why I might be more specifically 
concerned about the fact that she tweeted an article written by 
her husband--an article that states, ``There's a rude and 
satisfying justice in burning down the house of someone who 
builds in the forest.'' She called it a clarion call. Do you 
agree with that statement?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I don't read Twitter these days 
and I certainly----
    Senator Lee. I am not asking whether you read Twitter. I am 
asking you whether you agree with the statement--as someone who 
represents a state where a lot of people have lost their homes 
and their livelihoods and their access to public lands that 
they care about.
    Secretary Haaland. Senator----
    Senator Lee. I do not agree with it. Do you agree with it?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, everyday there are articles 
about wildfires and fires and pictures of houses burning on the 
front page of the New York Times. And it makes me cry every 
time I see that. This is a terrible issue in our country right 
now, these fires, and we are going to do everything we can to 
help remedy that.
    Senator Lee. Do you believe it is appropriate for a person 
who has shown gratification in seeing homes burn because they 
are in forests to lead a key wildfire-fighting agency?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, what I can tell you is that I 
am going to do my level best to ensure that we are doing 
everything humanly possible to make sure that fires don't burn 
down our communities and people's homes.
    Senator Lee. Is it consistent with the desire to do 
everything you can to stop that from happening--would it be 
consistent with that objective that you have just described, 
which I appreciate--to put someone in charge of it who has 
expressed gratification over seeing people's homes burn? Now, 
she has a spouse that believes that allowing livestock to graze 
on public lands is ``destroying the West.'' Do you agree with 
that statement?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, I suspect that anybody who is 
leading in any portion of the Department of the Interior will 
carry out the laws of this country and the priorities of the 
President in a very meaningful way.
    Senator Lee. And you do not think she will be influenced by 
her feelings of gratification on seeing homes burn in forests?
    Secretary Haaland. I think that anyone who is leading the 
Department will do their best to ensure that we are protecting 
our public lands for every single American.
    Senator Lee. In her academic thesis, Ms. Stone-Manning 
supported polices to influence Americans to have fewer 
children. She said that it is not a problem elsewhere and that 
Americans should stop at one or two kids. Do you agree with 
those policies?
    Secretary Haaland. I don't think that anyone can make 
policies like that.
    Senator Lee. In the same thesis, she published a photo of a 
child with the caption, ``Can you find the environmental hazard 
in this photo?'' She then indicated that the child was the 
environmental hazard. As the father of three, it makes my 
stomach sick to think that anyone would label my child, or 
anyone else's child, as an environmental hazard. As a parent, I 
am sure you feel the same way. Were you or your Department 
aware of these statements prior to her nomination?
    Secretary Haaland. Senator, my child is 27 years old. I 
love her dearly. I wish I could I see her more. I, quite 
frankly----
    Senator Lee. Is she an environmental hazard?
    Secretary Haaland. She is her mother's daughter and takes 
her refillable water bottle everywhere she goes and does 
whatever she can to honor this earth.
    Senator Lee. I see my time has expired. I would close by 
expressing my strong concerns here. Look, I get it. Not every 
official in the U.S. Government is going to agree with me. Not 
every official appointed by a President who is of a different 
political party is going to be one that I am going to agree 
with. There are a lot of people I can support who I disagree 
with.
    In this Department--the Department that you head, and in 
this Bureau that Ms. Stone-Manning has been asked to lead, 
there is immense discretion--discretion that can have 
catastrophic consequences, not just economically, but for the 
day-to-day lives of the people I represent. That discretion is, 
in many cases, as a practical matter, almost unreviewable. 
Sure, court challenges can happen, but from one day to the 
next, there are a whole lot of those things that are really, 
ultimately up to the discretion of the director of that office.
    I would urge you and other members of this Administration 
to reconsider whether this is an appropriate choice. It is not.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. I want to thank the 
witnesses for joining us this morning for this discussion. 
Members will have until the close of business tomorrow to 
submit additional questions for the record.
    The Committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:55 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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