    [Senate Hearing 117-443]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                           S. Hrg. 117-443

                       THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR
                      THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
                              FOR FISCAL YEAR 2022

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                                 JULY 27, 2021

                                   __________

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                           Printed for the use of the
                   Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                   __________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    45-248                      WASHINGTON : 2023

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                    JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
    RON WYDEN, Oregon                    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
    MARIA CANTWELL, Washington           JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
    BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             MIKE LEE, Utah
    MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico          STEVE DAINES, Montana
    MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
    ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine            JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
    CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
    MARK KELLY, Arizona                  BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
    JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado       CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
                                         ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas

                          Renae Black, Staff Director
                          Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
                         David Brooks, General Counsel
                 Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
                  Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
            John Tanner, Republican Deputy Staff Director for Lands

                               C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page
    Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West
      Virginia.......................................................     1
    Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
      Wyoming........................................................     2

                                    WITNESS

    Haaland, Hon. Deb, Secretary, U.S. Department of the Interior....     4

              ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

    Barrasso, Hon. John:
        Opening Statement............................................     2
    Haaland, Hon. Deb:
        Opening Statement............................................     4
        Written Testimony............................................     7
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................    51
    Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
        Opening Statement............................................     1
    Ute Indian Tribe:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   101

    THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
                              FOR FISCAL YEAR 2022

                                  ----------

                             TUESDAY, JULY 27, 2021

                                           U.S. Senate,
                     Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m. in
    Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin
    III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA

        The Chairman. We convene this morning to review the
    President's proposed budget for the Department of the Interior.
    Secretary Haaland, it is a pleasure to welcome you back for
    your first budget hearing before the Committee as Secretary of
    the Interior.
        The Interior Department has dual and sometimes conflicting
    responsibilities. On one hand, the Department is responsible
    for managing and protecting our national parks, wildlife
    refuges, the public lands, and providing for outdoor
    recreation, which has become increasingly important. At the
    same time, the Department is responsible for managing public
    lands and offshore resources to responsibly develop the energy
    and mineral resources that we need to maintain our energy
    independence. It is with that dual mission in mind that we
    should be reviewing priorities contained in this budget
    request.
        At a high level, the President has requested $17.6 billion
    in appropriations for the Interior Department in Fiscal Year
    2022. That represents an increase of $2.5 billion--or 17
    percent--over the current enacted level, and a sharp contrast
    to the 16 percent cut proposed last year by the previous
    Administration.
        The budget includes new mandatory funding provided by the
    Great American Outdoors Act, which was signed into law last
    year. That law is providing the Department with much-needed
    funding over five years to address high-priority deferred
    maintenance projects, as well as permanent funding for the Land
    and Water Conservation Fund (LWCF) at its fully authorized
    level.
        The Great American Outdoors Act was enacted with broad
    bipartisan support, and I think it is important that the
    funding process be equitable and transparent. I appreciate that
    the Administration has provided Congress with lists of its
    proposed maintenance and LWCF and deferred maintenance
    projects. I hope that we can use this hearing to get a better
    understanding of how the Department is prioritizing funding.
        I expect that there will be much discussion this morning on
    the Department's policies and proposals concerning energy
    development on federal lands and waters. In January, President
    Biden issued an Executive Order pausing new oil and gas lease
    sales on federal lands and waters to allow time for a
    comprehensive review of the program. While I have supported the
    Administration's desire to pause lease sales to make sure the
    American people are getting fair returns for our shared
    resources, we are now well into the early summer timeline when
    we were told the review would be completed.
        I also understand that a federal judge has issued an
    injunction against the Administration's pause, although I
    expect that decision will be appealed. In any event, we need a
    plan to move forward with responsible oil and gas leasing, both
    onshore and offshore, to maintain our energy independence. I
    look forward to discussing this in further detail with
    Secretary Haaland later in the hearing.
        I will turn now to a constituency that is near and dear to
    my home state. Coal miners have made tremendous sacrifices and
    have done the heavy lifting that powered our nation to
    greatness. The country has benefited from the work that the
    scars of abandoned mine lands left in those communities, and it
    is imperative that we give back to coal communities for the
    sacrifices they made for our nation. So I was pleased to see
    that the President's budget called for a $50 million increase
    for the Abandoned Mine Land Economic Revitalization, or AMLER,
    grant program, which helps to eliminate health and safety
    hazards and reclaim areas for future economic benefit in places
    like West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky, which were the
    heart of the coal country. I look forward to continuing to work
    with you to ensure all outstanding mine land Reclamation
    needs--including post-1977 areas governed under title V of the
    Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act, which we refer to
    as SMCRA--are adequately addressed.
        Finally, I would like to make a note about departmental
    nominations. I am pleased that the Senate confirmed Tommy
    Beaudreau as your Deputy earlier this summer. But I am
    disappointed that we have yet to receive a nomination for a
    Director of the National Park Service. National parks,
    including the newest national park, New River Gorge, are seeing
    record visitations this summer as the nation reopens. The
    National Park Service has significant funding decisions to make
    in implementing the Great American Outdoors Act. Yet the Park
    Service has been without a confirmed Director since the end of
    the Obama Administration. I urge the President to send us a
    nomination so we can get this position filled as quickly as
    possible.
        Now I will turn to my friend, Senator John Barrasso, for
    his opening statement.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
                       U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING

        Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Before I start my statement, I would like to extend an
    invitation to Secretary Haaland. Madam Secretary, this past
    weekend Governor Gordon and I were in Wyoming and we were
    discussing the tragedy of missing and murdered indigenous
    people. As you know, it is a serious issue facing members of
    the Northern Arapaho and the Eastern Shoshone tribes on and
    outside the Wind River Reservation and it is something we are
    dealing with in Wyoming. I know you are deeply concerned and
    care about this issue and I just would like to invite you to
    come to Wyoming, with the Governor, with me, to get your
    valuable insights. Thank you, Madam Secretary.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman, because I think it is very timely
    that Secretary Haaland is here today to testify on the
    President's Fiscal Year 2022 Department of the Interior budget.
    So welcome.
        The West is facing many challenges. Wildfires and drought
    are threatening our communities. Rural communities, ranching
    and farming families face a real water crisis this year. The
    West is where most of our federal lands are located, yet so
    many of the policies of the Administration seem to be
    distinctly anti-western.
        Last month, a federal court issued a nationwide injunction
    on President Biden's so-called pause on oil and gas lease
    sales. Under the court order, the Department is required to
    hold new oil and gas lease sales. To date, it has not noticed
    any new oil and gas lease sales and it is past time for the
    Administration to comply with law and hold new lease sales.
        Energy production on public lands is the engine of
    Wyoming's economy. It creates good-paying jobs, it provides
    tremendous revenue for the state, for our schools, and for
    critical services. The Biden Administration seems intent on
    destroying the livelihoods of oil, natural gas, and coal
    workers in the West. It is tearing away all the advantages that
    traditional energy production brings our states, our local
    communities, and our families. The Department needs to change
    course and get back to an American energy-dominance agenda--an
    agenda that creates jobs and provides for energy independence
    from foreign adversaries.
        Much of the West is also facing historic drought. Droughts
    are contributing to a number of issues, including wildfires.
    According to the National Interagency Fire Center, wildfires in
    the West have already consumed around two million acres, and we
    are early in the fire season.
        In addition to drought and extreme temperatures, the lack
    of proactive forest management has created the perfect storm
    for catastrophic wildfire events. These fires threaten the
    safety of our local communities and the safety of our wildland
    firefighters. We can and should do more to make our public
    lands less susceptible to such devastation. This can be done,
    in part, through thinning forested lands.
        Drought also highlights how critical water is to all
    aspects of western communities. We have not been building
    significant or sufficient water storage for western communities
    for years. As the West grows, so does our demand for water, yet
    our water supplies are dwindling. In Wyoming and many parts of
    the West, that means less water for ranchers and farmers. For
    communities in the West, the negative economic impact is
    significant.
        The Administration has not prioritized water development in
    the West. The Bureau of Reclamation is the only Interior
    Department agency within this Committee's purview that actually
    received a cut in the Administration's budget. The Department
    could help our western ranchers who graze cattle on federal
    lands by making temporary pasture available and assisting with
    water storage development.
        The Bureau of Reclamation programs to build more water
    storage are expiring this year. I have introduced legislation--
    the Western Water Infrastructure Act--to extend these programs.
    Existing Bureau of Reclamation water storage infrastructure is
    also crumbling. The Bureau needs to fund the repairs and to
    modernize these facilities. My legislation addresses these
    critical issues.
        The Biden Administration can and should do more to make
    America energy independent and maintain and create more jobs in
    the West. Much more needs to be done to make our public lands
    more resilient to the threat of wildfires. The Bureau of
    Reclamation also needs to be a higher priority for this
    Administration if we are to maintain and grow a viable, rural,
    western economy.
        So I look forward to exploring these and other issues with
    the Secretary today. Thank you, Madam Secretary. Thank you, Mr.
    Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. I would like to say also,
    just a moment of silence for our friend who passed away
    unexpectedly, Mike Enzi. Thank you all.
        [A moment of silence is observed.]
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the nice
    sentiments for Senator Enzi. He was a friend and colleague to
    so many of us, and I am going to be going to the floor. If I
    leave the Committee hearing it is to go to the floor to
    address, at length, along with Senator Lummis, our love and
    appreciation of the entire Enzi family and talk about Mike's
    service to the state and local community and then here in the
    Senate. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Such a sad, sad situation.
        Secretary Haaland is accompanied by Rachael Taylor, a
    former West Virginian. The Principal Deputy Assistant for
    Policy, Management, and Budget at the Department, and
    previously a long-time staff member on the Senate Interior
    Appropriations Subcommittee. So we welcome both of you, very
    kindly, to come back and visit with us.
        Secretary Haaland, you can proceed with your statement now.

                OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DEB HAALAND,
               SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

        Secretary Haaland. Chairman, Ranking Member, and members of
    the Committee, first, let me offer my condolences for your
    loss. I am very sorry. I read the article this morning and I am
    just so sorry for your loss.
        Chairman, Ranking Member Barrasso, members of the
    Committee, it is an honor to be here with you today on behalf
    of the Department of the Interior. It is deeply meaningful to
    me, as the first Native American Cabinet Secretary, to be here
    on the ancestral homelands of the Anacostan and Piscataway
    people, speaking before you.
        This Committee plays an important role in the success of
    the Department of the Interior and our many programs. The work
    that Congress has done on a bipartisan basis to support
    priorities such as the Great American Outdoors Act, wildland
    fire, and tribal programs, has been integral to the ability of
    the Interior to meet our mission. It has had profound impacts
    on the lives of Native Americans and Alaska Natives in
    communities across our country. In that spirit, I come before
    you today to present the Fiscal Year 2022 budget and to talk
    about how we can work together to ensure the Department is
    ready and to meet this moment.
        The 2022 budget reflects the important role Interior will
    play to accomplish the Administration's goals to move our
    country forward during this unprecedented time. The President's
    budget responds by proposing $17.6 billion in discretionary
    investments in Interior, as well as legislative proposals to
    implement the American Jobs Plan. The programs you see
    reflected in the budget request lift up the President's goals
    of addressing the climate crisis, providing much-needed
    resources to tribal nations, restoring balance on public lands
    and waters, advancing equity and environmental justice,
    investing in a clean energy future, and creating good-paying
    jobs.
        I will walk through a few high-level details now, and then
    I look forward to discussing the details with you. First, the
    budget supports partnership programs that will advance the
    ``America the Beautiful'' initiative, our Administration's
    effort to conserve 30 percent of U.S. lands and waters by 2030,
    through locally led and voluntary projects. The request also
    allocates the full, mandatory funding for the Land and Water
    Conservation Fund, a program I cared deeply about as a Member
    of Congress, and am thrilled to help direct as Secretary. It
    includes $86 million for the Civilian Climate Corps initiative.
        All told, the budget includes unprecedented investments to
    address the climate crisis, including more than $1.9 billion in
    new funding toward conservation, clean energy, climate science,
    and fleet modernization. This includes an increase of $133
    million to accelerate and expand activities that support clean
    energy deployment across federal lands and waters. It includes
    more than $300 million to support fuels management activities,
    to reduce the risk of wildland fire, funds to help prevent
    wildfires from taking hold, growing in severity, and
    threatening communities and resources.
        The budget request prioritizes investments in science,
    including $200 million in new funds that will help us to
    understand climate impacts and make better decisions about how
    to mitigate, adapt, and increase resilience across the
    landscape and in our communities. It also provides $300 million
    to support the President's Reclamation Jobs initiative and
    cleanup legacy pollution by plugging orphan oil and gas wells
    and cleaning up abandoned mines.
        And it includes major investments for Indian Country. The
    budget includes $4.2 billion across all Indian Affairs
    programs, which is $728 million above Fiscal Year 2021 levels.
    This includes a focus on strengthening tribal sovereignty,
    including a proposal for $150 million to reestablish the Land
    Consolidation Program with the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
        This request also includes important increases for tribal
    public safety and justice programs, including $16.5 million for
    programs like Interior's Missing and Murdered Unit, that
    address the missing and murdered indigenous peoples crisis.
        And finally, to ensure our nation's legal obligations to
    tribes are fully met, the budget proposes to shift funding for
    tribal water settlements, contract support costs, and tribal
    lease payments to mandatory spending, starting in Fiscal Year
    2023.
        These are just some of the highlights of this budget
    request. I look forward to working with the Committee to
    achieve these important goals. I commit to you that I will
    continue to honor and respect the role of this Committee, with
    the confident expectation that working together, we can
    accomplish great things on behalf of the American people.
        This concludes my remarks and I look forward to answering
    your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Secretary Haaland follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you, Secretary Haaland. I will begin
    with the questions.
        I have said that the Administration has the right and
    basically the responsibility to look at all the leases that we
    have, and we have paused those. So I would ask, can you shed
    some light on the status of the review, since after the pause
    and reviewing, what you may have found and what are the next
    steps we will take?
        Secretary Haaland. Chairman, thank you so much for that
    question. And first, I will just assure you that we are
    complying with the court order. We are evaluating our options,
    including what has been previously available for leasing. Of
    course, there is a lot of work that goes into moving that
    forward. We are working--the review is being finalized
    internally and we hope to get it out very soon.
        The Chairman. If you could just give us a little bit of the
    progress, or whoever we can contact in your office that can
    give us the progress and what direction you might be going,
    that might give us a little better light on that, okay?
        Secretary Haaland. Yes, Chairman. I can have my staff reach
    out----
        The Chairman. Please.
        Secretary Haaland [continuing]. To your staff and we'd be
    happy to do that.
        The Chairman. Thank you. I appreciate that.
        Also, on the American supply chains--you know, the
    President's order on American supply chains, which is for the
    critical minerals we need for so many things and products we
    use every day. There is nothing in there for a report of how
    you are going to determine where those minerals might be
    located and how we might best extract those for use in our
    American supply chain.
        So if you could, tell me how you are focused on the clean
    energy supply chain when the budget does not really show that
    whatsoever.
        Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Chairman. Of course, we
    understand that this is important. The President believes very
    strongly and supports energy independence, and those critical
    minerals, of course, are a part of our clean energy future. The
    USGS [United States Geological Survey] is studying these
    issues. We want to make sure that whatever we do, of course, is
    done responsibly. We would be more than happy to follow up, as
    well, with your office on any details that you might request.
        The Chairman. Well, we put $50 million in that, as you
    recall, okay?
        Secretary Haaland. Yes.
        The Chairman. And basically, we looked at how you all were
    disbursing and what you were using it for. And the budget
    request includes many priorities, including $5 million for
    forecasting, but does not have anything, not anything in there
    for the critical mineral resource assessment, what we have in
    our country, what we can expect to do, and how we can support
    all the industry and all the need--the products we need in
    America.
        The surest way to avoid wasteful and damaging venting and
    flaring--so this is venting and flaring on public lands. On
    private lands, most of the methane is taken off because it has
    value to it. But on the public lands, we found out the
    impediment of not taking and why they are continuing to flare,
    which we think is harmful, dangerous, and wasteful. It is
    because they cannot get permits for pipelines to take that
    product to market. So if you could explain to me, are there any
    steps that you all have taken to reduce the flaring and venting
    of this product and allowing that to be taken to market? Or how
    are you all looking at that?
        Secretary Haaland. Chairman, thank you so much for the
    question and I appreciate your commitment to this issue. The
    Administration is focused on reducing methane emissions and I
    think you know that the Obama Administration issued a rule to
    limit flaring. But that has been involved in litigation. So we
    know that that is part of protecting taxpayers and the
    environment, of course. We'd be happy to fill you in with
    further details, but it is definitely a priority of ours.
        The Chairman. We would be happy to sit down with you, as we
    can only tell you what we know is that, basically, they cannot
    get a permit to build a pipeline to take the methane off. We
    have the technology. We do it in the private sector. We do it
    all over the East Coast, because it is a valued product. But
    out west, they are not doing it and then we all are getting
    condemned for flaring, which is very lethal to the environment.
    And on the other hand, we can get it to market. So we are going
    to have to either adopt a policy where we can get that product
    to market, or you will never do anymore leasing if flaring is
    going to be the criteria. That is my only comment on that.
        Fewer than two weeks ago, the Committee reported out a
    bipartisan infrastructure bill in which we authorized $19
    billion to reclaim abandoned mine lands and orphaned gas wells.
    Also, Senator Heinrich brought to our attention the horrible
    condition of hardrock mining. We know that and we are looking
    desperately to find the money to do that, too. But we have to
    repurpose everything, and we will, at the proper time. But that
    is something to be done. How are you all approaching that, as
    far as the benefits of having the program at the Department
    level, as opposed to just passing funds directly to agencies?
        Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Chairman. I'd love for
    Rachael to have an opportunity to----
        The Chairman. Sure.
        Secretary Haaland [continuing]. Fill you in on some
    details. I can tell you that this is an important issue for us,
    and, in fact, I traveled recently to Pennsylvania to witness
    how well they are doing with reclaiming these abandoned mine
    lands. Rachael.
        Ms. Taylor. So as you know, I mean, we are grateful for
    your leadership in working on the infrastructure package, which
    includes the President's commitment on these issues.
        We also have some important investments in the budget
    request itself, which spoke to the Reclamation jobs and the
    proposals that you have mentioned. And that includes the AMLER
    program you mentioned, but it also includes some of the
    hardrock cleanup issues. And I think one of the issues that we
    are focusing on is inventorying and getting really good data
    across the country and that is going to be on federal lands,
    that is going to be on tribal lands, and that is going to be on
    non-federal lands as well.
        So we definitely have investments that are tailored toward
    that. And what we had envisioned is that we would have a
    centralized program that would help sort of roll up all the
    priorities across land management agencies so we could look at
    the highest priorities on the federal family side. And then we
    would provide assistance to states and tribes so that they
    could deal with the hardrock mining cleanup as well. So we are
    continuing to engage on this issue and appreciate the priority
    that you mentioned.
        The Chairman. Along the mining issue, I will just--my time
    has expired. But on the mining issue, I will tell you that
    there is a bigger problem, basically, with the bonding
    companies post-SMCRA. That's post-1977. We have been talking a
    lot and we put $11 billion toward pre-1977--pre-SMCRA. Post-
    SMCRA, bonding companies are walking away from this. Companies
    are declaring bankruptcy. Bonding companies are thinking they
    are off the hook once the company declares bankruptcy, and
    nothing gets done. It is ridiculous what is going on. So I hope
    you look into that. We are going to be doing a deep dive into
    that, also, along with hardrock mining, to make sure they are
    going to be operating on the same procedures, Okay?
        Ms. Taylor. Yes.
        The Chairman. Thank you. Senator Barrasso.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Madam Secretary,
    I have some short questions, just if you could respond briefly.
    And the first has to do with tree spiking, where people drive
    metal spikes into trees. Do you know if tree spiking can kill
    or maim loggers or mill workers?
        Secretary Haaland. Well, I know that--Senator, I imagine
    so. I was not really familiar with any of that practice until
    recently.
        Senator Barrasso. Is tree spiking in national forests a
    federal crime?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I couldn't tell you for sure.
    But I imagine it's----
        Senator Barrasso. It is.
        Secretary Haaland [continuing]. It's very dangerous.
        Senator Barrasso. Yes. So should individuals who are aware
    of spiked trees, in terms of national forests, should they
    immediately inform law enforcement?
        Secretary Haaland. I imagine that anyone should inform law
    enforcement if it's a danger, sure.
        Senator Barrasso. So I guess the question is, should
    individuals who plan or otherwise are involved in tree spiking
    incidents and threaten the physical safety of federal
    officials--should they expect to be hired by the Department of
    the Interior?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, if I may, I believe you are
    referring to the nominee Tracy Stone-Manning, and I also
    recognize that she was nominated by President Biden because he
    felt she could do the job and that she was qualified otherwise.
        Senator Barrasso. On the issue of wildfires in the West,
    which is a major issue, as wildfires are burning around the
    West. National forests burn--there is an interface now, with
    areas where people build homes, and forests can burn, and there
    are problems for, sometimes, structures who are at risk, who
    are at this interface where structures are built. So do you
    agree with this statement?--``Perhaps the solution to houses in
    the interface is to let them burn.''
        Secretary Haaland. Well, I can't necessarily agree or
    disagree, but I--I mean, I think the wildfires are just getting
    more intense because of climate change and that is why we need
    to make preventative measures and put resources toward
    protecting communities.
        Senator Barrasso. So do you agree with this statement?--
    ``There is a rude and satisfying justice in burning down the
    house of someone who builds in the forest.''
        Secretary Haaland. I don't, no.
        Senator Barrasso. Do you agree that children are an
    environmental hazard?
        Secretary Haaland. Do I agree that children are----
        Senator Barrasso. Children are an environmental hazard.
        Secretary Haaland [continuing]. An environmental hazard?
        Senator Barrasso. Yes.
        Secretary Haaland. No.
        Senator Barrasso. No? Okay. Do you agree that grazing on
    federal lands is destroying the West? These are obviously
    statements that someone else has made that you know, we
    disagree with and I want to see if you are of that same
    mindset.
        Secretary Haaland. I haven't heard all these statements,
    Senator. I mean, I agree there are a lot of things that are
    destroying the West, like drought and wildfire and climate
    change. Of course, climate change is certainly ruining a lot of
    our country right now.
        Senator Barrasso. But you would not necessarily want to
    hire an employee in a land management position who agrees or
    puts forth these statements about satisfying justice and
    letting houses burn, or children as environmental hazards?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, what I will say is that I, as
    the Secretary of the Interior, am not personally hiring anyone.
    I believe that is a team effort and I know that the Senate
    plays a very large role in any of these positions as well.
        Senator Barrasso. On June 15th, a federal court issued a
    nationwide injunction against President Biden's ban on oil and
    gas lease sales on federal lands and waters. Shortly
    afterwards, a spokesman for your department said the Department
    would comply with the court's order. However, to date--and here
    we are, it is now July 27th, six weeks later--the Department
    has failed to notice any oil and gas lease sales. Will the
    Department hold onshore oil and gas lease sales this quarter,
    that is, before the end of September?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, the Department is complying
    with the court order. As you may know, it's not a switch you
    can turn on. There is a lot of work that goes into a lease sale
    and so we are complying with the court's order, we are
    evaluating our options, and that includes what has previously
    been available for leasing.
        Senator Barrasso. So will the Department then reschedule
    the first and second quarter of the year lease sales that had
    previously been postponed?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, in addition to the fact that we
    are complying with the court order, I will just say that this
    matter is in litigation and I can't necessarily go into any
    more details about it.
        Senator Barrasso. Okay. And then, finally, Mr. Chairman,
    the West is currently suffering historic drought conditions, as
    you and others on the Committee have said. Yet the budget that
    the President proposed seeks to cut funding for the Bureau of
    Reclamation, as I mentioned in my opening statement, while
    increasing funding for the other components of the Department
    of the Interior. Would you agree with me that now, during
    historic drought conditions, it is time to prioritize Western
    water infrastructure, not cut infrastructure from it?
        Secretary Haaland. Well, certainly, water is absolutely
    important, and we have team members who work on this issue
    every single day. It is a priority to them and they are in very
    close contact with folks on the ground in those areas.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Madam Secretary. Thank you,
    Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso. Senator
    Heinrich, please.
        Senator Heinrich. Madam Secretary, I want to start by just
    thanking you for your historical leadership in Congress and
    otherwise on protecting the Greater Chaco Canyon area. I want
    to ask you what plans does the Department of the Interior have
    to protect this priceless cultural landscape? And are you
    considering an administrative withdrawal?
        Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator, for that question.
    Thank you for your letter. We appreciate your commitment to
    this beautiful area of our country. Of course, we consider all
    proposals from Members of Congress very carefully.
        The Administration has requested a continuation of the 10-
    mile buffer area around Chaco in its budget request for Fiscal
    Year 2022. We will continue to engage with tribes, with
    Congress, and other stakeholders with respect to any other
    future decisions.
        Senator Heinrich. So the BLM [Bureau of Land Management] is
    also still in the process of amending the research management
    plan for the region around Chaco. But pandemic restrictions and
    a lack of broadband internet access--that you are more than
    familiar with--really meant that the public comment and tribal
    consultation processes for the draft plan were largely
    inaccessible back in 2020 to many of my constituents. How can
    you ensure that tribes have a meaningful opportunity to
    participate before that plan amendment is actually finalized?
        Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator. Tribal consultation
    is a top priority for our Department and for this
    Administration. In fact, our Principal Deputy Assistant
    Secretary for Indian Affairs, Bryan Newland, will be in Chaco
    Canyon, I believe, tomorrow. He intends to have meetings with
    tribes. He's meeting the Chairman of the All Pueblo Council of
    Governors there and having meetings with other folks and
    stakeholders on the ground.
        So we will make sure that we use whatever method is best
    for that action, because, yes, we have to meet them where they
    are.
        Senator Heinrich. I appreciate your efforts there very
    much, because those efforts were not evident with the previous
    Secretary and he and I discussed this at length, and it seemed
    to make absolutely no difference. So I appreciate your effort
    and those of Bryan, as well.
        One of the budget challenges at the Department of the
    Interior has been the historic lack of investment in law
    enforcement. There are only about 15 law enforcement officers
    right now, for New Mexico's millions of acres of Bureau of Land
    Management land. That lack of funding often leads to looting of
    priceless cultural resources and a host of other problems. Are
    we spending enough on law enforcement?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you for the question. I
    have firsthand experience with this issue, so I completely
    understand. And it's certainly not just in New Mexico but I met
    with tribes when we were in Colorado and they were experiencing
    the same issue--three officers for a large swath of Colorado. I
    would maybe ask Rachael if she can shed a little bit more light
    on the budget issue here, but I want you to know it's a
    priority for our Department.
        Ms. Taylor. Thank you, Madam Secretary. I think that sets
    off the issue well. Obviously, our law enforcement officers
    have an enormous amount of land to patrol and, you know, varied
    resource challenges on the ground to address.
        I will say that one of the primary investments that we are
    making in this budget speaks to the tribal resources for public
    safety, which has been really important. There is a 13 percent
    increase across the board in public safety programs within BIA
    [Bureau of Indian Affairs], which is definitely, you know, in
    need of additional resources. And that is going to have funding
    that is going to implement increases across the board to
    tribes. It is going to have some targeted increases to deal
    with the recent Supreme Court decision from the McGirt case.
        We have the resources that the Secretary mentioned earlier,
    which is a $5 million increase for the missing and murdered
    indigenous people exercise. And there are some additional
    resources for tribal courts as well.
        Senator Heinrich. Thank you--thank you for those
    investments. I think they are incredibly important.
        Madam Secretary, is there a link between climate change
    caused by our overreliance on fossil energy sources and the
    wildfires that we are seeing in the West?
        Secretary Haaland. I am not a scientist, Senator, but it
    certainly does appear that climate change has everything to do
    with the wildfires that we are experiencing and their
    intensity. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Lee.
        Senator Lee. All right. Speaking of wildfires, it is of
    grave concern to many of us in the West, where there is a lot
    of federal land. Would you agree with me, Madam Secretary, that
    water storage is a critical feature of effective fire
    suppression?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, we believe that there are a lot
    of tools in the toolbox to fight these wildland fires and we
    want to make sure that we can use every single one of them.
        Senator Lee. Including that one. Stakeholders in my state
    have indicated to me that the Department of the Interior's NEPA
    [National Environmental Policy Act] review of water storage
    infrastructure projects often presents an obstacle, that NEPA
    is often delaying these projects and providing a significant
    impediment to getting them done. That, in turn, makes us more
    vulnerable to wildfires. I think there are some models that we
    could follow here and build off of. The Federal Highway
    Administration (FHWA), for example, allows states to assume
    NEPA review responsibilities in order to facilitate more
    expeditious review. I believe there are at least seven states
    that do this, including California, Arizona, Utah, Alaska,
    Texas, Ohio, and Florida. As I understand these agreements,
    they work well. Do you believe that states and the Department
    of the Interior could both benefit from a similar arrangement
    when it comes to water infrastructure?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, we are certainly happy to look
    at any ideas that you have and we would be willing to be in
    touch with your office and explore that further.
        Senator Lee. I appreciate that. All right. I think there
    are some who perhaps have a reflexive reluctance to make any
    changes to the way we do NEPA analysis. But it is important to
    remember here that states that currently participate in these
    programs, for example, with the Federal Highway Administration,
    participate in them in a way that still makes them accountable
    to the same standards. So just as NEPA analysis conducted by a
    federal agency can be stopped, because it does not adhere to
    the standards of NEPA, so too, a state-sponsored project is
    held to the same standards accountable in the same courts.
        Now, it has been widely reported that your confidential
    report to President Biden on the Bears Ears National Monument
    and the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument recommended
    a full reexpansion. Now, if we want to work together toward a
    legislative solution, it would be helpful to be able to
    understand the reasoning behind your recommendation. Can you
    tell me when that report will be released?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you so much. The report
    is now in the hands of the President and it would be up to the
    President as to when he makes a decision and/or releases the
    report.
        Senator Lee. The Utah School and Institutional Trust Lands
    Administration, also known as SITLA, owns many thousands of
    acres within the boundaries of the original Bears Ears National
    Monument. So if the monument is reexpanded to encompass its
    original footprint, access to many of those parcels could be
    complicated, or in some cases lost. Can you tell me what your
    recommendation might have been regarding those parcels?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, as I mentioned, the report is
    in the hands of the President. Unfortunately, I am unable to
    share. That is actually with the President and it will be at
    his discretion when the report is released, and when he makes a
    decision.
        Senator Lee. I hope he will take those concerns into
    account, given that they will affect Utah's schoolchildren.
        Energy Fuels, which is a critical minerals company that is
    based in Southern Utah, has made a number of attempts to speak
    with officials at the Department of the Interior and at the
    White House regarding the pending designation. Now, Energy
    Fuels' work will, by all accounts, be critical in the
    development of any sort of new energy technologies. I suspect
    you would agree that, with so few of our critical minerals
    being produced domestically right now, it is critical that we
    work with stakeholders to ensure their success. Can you please
    see to it that it is addressed and that they get substantive
    responses to their questions and concerns?
        Secretary Haaland. Absolutely.
        Senator Lee. A White House official recently stated that
    the nomination of Tracy Stone-Manning to head the Bureau of
    Land Management was ``A massive vetting failure''. Do you agree
    with that characterization?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I know that the President
    nominated her because he believes she is qualified, and I
    believe she is, too.
        Senator Lee. Now, at the time she was nominated, were you
    aware that Ms. Stone-Manning had previously told a newspaper
    that she ``Could have been charged with conspiracy . . . were
    it not for her agreement with the U.S. Attorney'' ?
        Secretary Haaland. No, Senator.
        Senator Lee. Okay. I see my time has expired. Thank you,
    Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Now we have Senator
    Hirono.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Madam
    Secretary. I am glad to see the USGS budget includes over $200
    million in new climate-change investments. This includes adding
    more than $42 million to the Climate Adaptation Science
    Centers, with one of the regional centers being located in
    Hawaii.
        The budget also adds $5 million for reducing threats of
    invasive species and wildlife disease in a changing climate,
    noting efforts will initially focus on Alaska, Hawaii, and the
    U.S. ancillary territories in the Pacific and the Northeast.
    The budget also adds $5.4 million to the tools supporting
    conservation planning, monitoring, and projection budget, to
    expand activities in Hawaii, Alaska, and the U.S. territories,
    to map and model past, present, and future landscape
    conditions.
        As you know, invasive species and climate change are
    significantly impacting our ecosystems in Hawaii, whether
    furthering threats to our endangered species, or increasing our
    wildfire risk. Additional support to strengthen efforts to
    mitigate these threats is sorely needed, and I look forward to
    working with you and my colleagues to make sure these programs
    receive strong funding.
        I also note that Hawaii has recently been invited to submit
    a full proposal for the Sentinel Landscapes Partnership, a
    coalition between DOI, USDA, and DOD, as well as state and
    local governments and non-governmental organizations that works
    with private landowners to advance sustainable land management
    practices across military installations and ranges. And we have
    some pretty large military installations in Hawaii.
        A Sentinel Landscape designation in Hawaii could bring
    additional federal resources to strengthen military readiness
    in the Indo-Pacific, conserve natural resources, bolster
    agricultural and forest economics, mitigate wildfire, and
    increase climate-change resilience. A Sentinel Landscape
    designation in Hawaii is a very unique opportunity, and only
    seven landscapes in the nation have received such a
    designation.
        As DOI is the part of the coalition, I would like to
    express my support for Hawaii's proposal and I look forward to
    learning the review committee's final selection. So this is a
    public pitch for Hawaii's submittal.
        Then, I want to get to the National Park Service. The
    Fiscal Year National Park Service budget also makes some
    important investments in Hawaii. This includes over $6 million
    for land acquisition at Haleakala National Park and Puuhonua o
    Honaunau National Park through the more fully funded Land and
    Water Conservation Fund, thanks to the Great American Outdoors
    Act.
        It also includes funding for the Advancing Racial Justice
    and Equity for Underserved Communities initiative to help
    Hawaii parks better engage native Hawaiian communities by
    providing for full-time community liaisons to support all
    Hawaii parks. The state activities include facilitating Native
    Hawaiian participation in park planning, programming,
    operations, recruiting, and outreach. And as a Native American
    yourself, I think you would really understand the need to
    engage native communities in what the Federal Government is
    doing--what the National Park Service is doing. So I am glad to
    see the Park Service making this effort to better engage the
    native Hawaiian community, and I look forward to working with
    you and NPS on this.
        I actually am coming to a question. Increasing visitor
    diversity in public lands--there have been assessments that our
    parks are not accessed by minority groups, other populations,
    and so I would think that the Department would benefit from
    data relating to the diversity of visitors to our national
    parks. And what, if any, obstacles does the Department face in
    collecting such data, and measuring visitation by racial and
    ethnic minorities to public lands? And how can the Department
    and this Committee work together to expand recreational
    opportunities in federal public lands to underrepresented
    populations?
        Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator. That is absolutely
    an important question and something that we support
    wholeheartedly. Increasing the ability of underserved
    communities to use our public lands is absolutely a critical
    focus of this Administration. We will absolutely work with you
    and any Senator on this Committee to move the needle on that.
    And if Rachael has anything to add, I would welcome her to add,
    as well.
        Ms. Taylor. Just to amplify that, as you probably know, the
    President issued an Executive Order early on in the
    Administration that challenged agencies to think about the
    equity issues within the new programs.
        Senator Hirono. Yes.
        Ms. Taylor. And so I am proud to say that the access to
    underserved communities to public lands is one of the issues
    that we have selected to do additional analysis on. And so we
    are in the process of doing that right now, and looking at the
    barriers that we are finding, and looking at the data
    collection issues, which you mentioned. Obviously, you want to
    succeed--you need to measure something. So we are committed to
    working with you and would be happy to keep you abreast as the
    effort moves forward.
        Senator Hirono. Yes. Mr. Chairman, I think
    we would all benefit from the actual measures and outreach
    efforts that you are engaging in to make sure that our parks
    really serve our diverse population in this country. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Lankford.
        Senator Lankford. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Secretary, it is
    good to see you again. Thanks for being here. I need to walk
    through a couple of the details in your budget. You know, the
    information about the 30 by 30, or America the Beautiful
    initiative--setting aside 30 percent of the land in the United
    States for conservation purposes. Can you give us some
    additional details, briefly, on that, as well? Is that all
    going to be voluntary? It seems to be a voluntary set aside of
    that land. Is that your expectation?
        Secretary Haaland. Yes, Senator. In large part, yes, any
    additional lands--we are inviting private landowners,
    organizations, tribal nations to participate in that and we
    have met with a number of--actually, many stakeholders.
        Senator Lankford. What percentage of America's land is
    already set aside that you would say is already in that
    initiative?
        Secretary Haaland. I understand that, give or take--please
    don't quote me on this--but I think the land is around 18
    percent, perhaps, and the oceans, maybe, 12 or it might be----
        Senator Lankford. So trying to be able to move that from
    that 18 percent to 30 percent, do you expect this to be in
    every state or region, or do you expect it to be nationwide? I
    guess what I am saying is, do you disproportionately expect the
    30 percent of the land set aside to be in Alaska and Utah,
    let's say, and not as much as in New York State?
        Secretary Haaland. Not at all. We expect, and have had
    overwhelming optimism about the idea of it being a nationwide
    effort.
        Senator Lankford. So this would be in each region, each
    state, you would expect that? For states that have higher than
    30 percent already set aside, would you expect them to be able
    to get down to a 30 percent goal, at some point, so they would
    have more private ownership in their area?
        Secretary Haaland. On those specific details, Senator, I
    can't answer, but I get your point and the conversations will
    absolutely continue on this issue.
        Senator Lankford. But you do expect it to be voluntary?
        Secretary Haaland. That is correct. Yes, for private
    landowners, for ranchers, for farmers, for----
        Senator Lankford. Right.
        Secretary Haaland [continuing]. Indian Tribes.
        Senator Lankford. I know in my state, and there are five
    states total that are in the area of what is called the
    ``Lesser Prairie-Chicken Area,'' they have done voluntary
    efforts to do mitigation protection of that species for quite a
    while. And now there has been a step-in to say, actually, we
    are going to now impose different measures in there. Where we
    have had, for instance, in my state, a great rebound in
    population, there seems to be an assumption now that it is not
    enough. That in other areas it is not recovering well, but in
    your area, where it is recovering well, in my state, there is
    still going to be kind of a heavy hand to be able to reach in
    and to impose this.
        So what started as voluntary measures now seems to be
    flipping over to mandatory measures for that, which is pretty
    disheartening, obviously, for folks that have done voluntary
    measures for a long time and have seen tremendous recovery of
    that species to try to work to get it off of the endangered
    species or threatened list. That is pretty disheartening to be
    able to see that.
        The landowners in my area are asking for an additional six
    months to say ``Allow us to comment, allow us to show the
    information.'' There is data that is coming out, literally
    right now while Interior is making their decision on what to be
    able to do. There is an annual study that is coming out and
    they need a little bit of time to be able to present it to
    everyone and say ``Don't take what is voluntary and suddenly
    turn it to mandatory before we can hand you this information.''
    Is that a reasonable request, do you think, for them to get a
    few more months and time to be able to hand over all their
    final information to you?
        Secretary Haaland. I will certainly take your request back
    and we will absolutely consider it. As I have said, you know,
    we are open to ideas and your feedback.
        Senator Lankford. They are not trying to be unreasonable.
    They are just trying to say ``Hey, you are closing this down
    before I can actually hand you this information.'' That is
    unreasonable to them. They are looking for a few more months of
    time to be able to hand over the final report so they can show
    you what is actually happening to the population count there.
        The leasing activities--we have talked a little bit about
    this already, about the leasing activity that has stopped. And
    then, now, a court has said you cannot just keep this stopped
    indefinitely. You had mentioned earlier that it takes a while
    to be able to restart it. When will that restart?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, as I said, we are working on it
    right now. We are complying with the court's order right now.
        Senator Lankford. Will it take a year? Will it take three
    months? Give us a guess.
        Secretary Haaland. I think I will say soon.
        Senator Lankford. So in this quarter?
        Secretary Haaland. Soon. I don't--I cannot answer that
    specifically, but as I said, we are working on it and we are
    happy to stay in touch with you as we make the progress.
        Senator Lankford. So there is just an expectation that--
    when a court order stepped in and said ``Hey, this is not legal
    to just stop this indefinitely''--that there isn't actually
    going to be progress made toward this. We know there is an
    interim report that is coming out. We do not know when that is
    coming. Do you have an update of when the interim report is
    coming out?
        Secretary Haaland. As I said, we are finalizing it
    internally at the moment, and I cannot say specifically, but I
    can say soon. It is in its final stages.
        Senator Lankford. And you will expect a final report after
    that interim report?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, we will absolutely let you know
    when we approach that timeframe, and I can say soon.
        Senator Lankford. So there is an interim report that is
    soon, a final report that is soon. Do you expect the decision
    on lease sales after the final report or after the interim
    report or before?
        Secretary Haaland. Well, after the final report is moved
    forward, we will have made decisions and be able to implement
    whatever changes are perhaps necessary and move that forward.
        Senator Lankford. Soon?
        Secretary Haaland. Soon.
        Senator Lankford. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Cortez Masto.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary
    Haaland, thank you so much for being here. Let me say, I
    appreciate the comments so far. The increases to the Department
    of the Interior's budget--particularly your focus on our tribal
    communities, missing and murdered indigenous women and
    children. Thank you so much.
        There is an area I do want to focus on where there is a
    decrease. And it has been touched on a little bit here in the
    Committee, and this has to do with the drought along the
    Colorado River.
        As you know, the Colorado is the lifeblood for many western
    states. It is the economic engine of the Southwest, and it
    supplies drinking water to 36 million Americans. And that use
    of that water outstrips the supply. The seven basin states,
    water users, the federal agencies, and Mexico have a history of
    close cooperation, which has become ever more important as
    drought and increased water demands have left the two big
    reservoirs--that is Lake Powell and Lake Mead--at all-time
    lows. And as you well know, it is expected that a shortage will
    be declared at Lake Mead next month and that predetermined
    water allocation reductions will go into effect next year.
        Here is what I am concerned about as I look at the budget.
    For the Bureau of Reclamation, it shows that for the Fiscal
    Year 2022 request, there is an eight-percent decrease in the
    budget for the Bureau of Reclamation, particularly when it
    comes to water and related resources. For those water and
    energy management and development line-item resources, there is
    a seven-percent decrease.
        So can I ask you, how does the Department of the Interior
    ensure long-term reliability of the Colorado, particularly when
    we are focused on drought, we are seeing more wildfires in the
    West than we have ever seen before, particularly in Nevada.
    Just in 2020 alone there were 800 wildfires, and we need water
    to fight these fires, as well. Please talk to me about how the
    Department intends to help us address this drought issue when
    there is a decrease in the budget for the Bureau of
    Reclamation.
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you so much for the
    question and you are absolutely right. It is incredibly
    important. I am going to let Rachael answer that so she can
    give specific details.
        Ms. Taylor. Thank you, Madam Secretary, and thank you so
    much for the question. I think one point about the budget--just
    to set the stage is, you know, we view the budget as the whole
    budget, which includes the discretionary funding. It also
    includes the amounts that were provided through the President's
    American Jobs Plan, which the Committee is now working to act
    upon. So I would say, you know, your concerns are well noted on
    the discretionary side.
        You know, the Committee has taken the President's jobs plan
    and expanded it much further to a larger water infrastructure
    proposal, which, you know, obviously reflects the gravity of
    the need on the ground. I mean, certainly what is playing out
    on the Colorado River Basin--we are seeing it in basins across
    the West. The Secretary referenced the ``All of the tools in
    the toolbox'' approach. And so I think that is the ethos that
    we are bringing to the table--that we are willing to look at
    the individual solutions everywhere, and I know that we want to
    work with this Committee to make sure that we are putting the
    resources on the ground where they are going to have the most
    impact.
        Senator Cortez Masto. So just so I understand, you are
    hopeful that in the American Jobs Plan and legislation we still
    have to pass--that will address some of the concerns that I
    just talked about, when it comes to drought and what we are
    hearing here about preserving the water along the Colorado. Is
    that right?
        Ms. Taylor. The President's proposal had strong investments
    and I know Congress is looking to----
        Senator Cortez Masto. Let me talk about one of those
    because I do want to bring it up. We do need bold solutions and
    that is why I introduced the Large Scale Water Recycling
    Project and Drought Resiliency Investment Act. It establishes a
    competitive grant program within the Bureau of Reclamation for
    large-scale water recycling projects that have a total
    estimated cost of at least $500 million. The bill authorizes
    $750 million for the program. This is necessary. These types of
    bold programs are necessary to bring new water into the system.
    And there is a partnership already, between Nevada and
    Colorado, just on one large-scale project alone.
        And so I am hopeful that the Administration, the Department
    of the Interior--you will support this type of legislation
    because this is the time for us to think bold and big and this
    the time for the Federal Government, the states, Mexico, all of
    the partners along the Colorado to really start working
    together to address what we know and have concerns about, which
    is the drought that we see in the western states now. So I am
    hopeful you will be there to support this legislation and many
    other innovative ideas.
        Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Senator. And of
    course, I am always willing to work with you. Thank you.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Hyde-Smith.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you,
    Secretary Haaland, for appearing before the Committee today to
    talk about these important issues. I am really thankful that we
    were able to discuss some of these concerns about a month ago
    in the Appropriations Subcommittee Hearing on Interior.
    However, it is concerning to me that many of the questions and
    concerns my colleagues and I brought up in that hearing still
    lack answers today, such as, over the oil and gas leasing ban.
    And as you are well aware, a federal court judge ruled the
    pause on new leases unlawful. Yet there has been no response or
    action taken by your Department to follow the law.
        I am aware that the interim report--which is said to
    include initial findings on the status of the federal
    conventional energy programs and other recommendations for
    Congress--is going to be released, but I just feel that this
    Committee needs answers today and it certainly deserves
    transparency. So with that, I am going to go with my questions.
        I would like to discuss the report that your Department is
    set to release. For clarification, is this report a final
    report or is it an interim report?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you for the question. And
    the report that we are set to release is an interim report and
    it will be released soon.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. But it is totally an interim report.
    Does this report bring the Department into compliance with
    current law?
        Secretary Haaland. We are actually in compliance with the
    court order, currently. We are complying with the court order
    right now. As we speak, the Department is working. As I
    mentioned, there is a lot of work that goes into even having a
    lease sale. And so they are complying with the court order now,
    today.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. So the ban has been released?
        Secretary Haaland. I suppose that the pause that you are
    referring to, that President Biden ordered in his Executive
    Order is--I suppose it's in effect. I mean, you can say that as
    soon as one lease sale happens that the pause is over. But what
    I can say is, we are complying with the court order and we are
    doing the work necessary to move in that direction.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. So the pause is not in place at this
    time?
        Secretary Haaland. Well, technically, I suppose you could
    say the pause is still in place. However, we are complying with
    the court order to move forward on releasing the report and
    moving this issue forward.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Does the report contain formal, binding
    decisions, or anything that will be enforceable?
        Secretary Haaland. As I mentioned earlier, Senator, the
    report is in its final, you know, internal--the final internal
    draft, and I am unable to comment on it at the moment--on the
    details of it.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Okay. And what action has the
    Department taken to be in compliance with the judge's ruling?
    Have there been any decisions to reinstate lease sales? But
    specifically, I am referring to lease sale 257.
        Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator. Unfortunately, I
    cannot comment specifically on the question that you are
    asking. We'd be more than happy to be back in touch with you as
    soon as we do have specific answers to your questions. I know
    that, overall, the Department is working on ensuring that we
    are complying with the court order.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. And with the lease sale 257, are you
    familiar with that lease sale--257?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I understand the question you
    are asking and I want to assure you that we are doing our best
    to move forward.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Okay, because I see my time is out.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Hickenlooper.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Madam Secretary, first, before I do
    anything, I want to express my appreciation and gratitude to
    you for coming out to Colorado during your confirmation week.
    If you remember, we encouraged and made that offer and
    encouraged your early visit to Colorado and the entire state, I
    think, appreciates it. We talked about public lands, the CORE
    Act, wildfires. And I thought again and again we saw genuine
    bipartisanship and I know a lot of people in Colorado were
    impressed that we had Republicans and Democrats and
    Independents--everyone--at those meetings, all working for that
    sense of clean air, clean water, and public lands.
        I also got the sense that you saw and heard clearly the
    long-term value that having a western presence holds for the
    BLM, by making sure that the employees are close to the land
    they manage. And I think you heard clearly the meaning that
    has--the importance of that to the local community. So I think,
    obviously, that presence is a shared value and is of real
    importance.
        So I wanted to ask you of some of your takeaways from that
    trip, particularly from our time and conversations in Grand
    Junction.
        Secretary Haaland. Thank you so much, Senator, and again, I
    appreciate your hospitality while we were in Colorado. It was a
    really, really wonderful time.
        And of course, I was thrilled to have opportunities to have
    those meetings. We met with the staff, both in person and
    remotely. At the BLM headquarters--we were happy to be with you
    during the public meeting, as well.
        I think my takeaways are that we need to come to a decision
    fairly soon. It is important for folks to be able to know and
    understand what their task at hand is, and the way we do that
    is just to make sure that folks can hunker down and know what
    they are doing.
        So we are taking all those--I got more--in fact, I got more
    comments by staff, through email, by the time I got home. And
    so we are looking at all of those and sort of assessing all of
    the comments that we heard and just appreciate that
    opportunity.
        Senator Hickenlooper. I heard repeatedly that your
    willingness to listen--I suspect you probably got more comments
    than you knew what to do with.
        I would be remiss if I did not put in that additional plug
    that, when that transfer of the BLM headquarters took place to
    Colorado, there has been a lot of discussion about how poorly
    it was done and in many ways certain of the processes which
    were enacted seemed to actually create unhappiness and were
    designed to get people to leave the BLM and to make it less
    functional. And I want to make sure that I reemphasize that
    that has nothing to do with Grand Junction and the appreciation
    of that community and the relationship that community has
    developed with BLM over this past year, and what a great sign
    that is for the relationship with the West, with the BLM, where
    most of the land is.
        Let me switch to--anyway, I do not want to belabor that
    point. I know pretty much everywhere we went in Colorado we
    talked about the BLM, I think.
        Anyway, as we discussed also, too many underprivileged
    communities grow up without any access to outdoor spaces. And
    your support for the Outdoor Recreation Legacy Partnership
    Program, from your days in the House, and more recently as
    Secretary, has really helped us imagine how to close that
    nature gap.
        But obviously, we still have work ahead of us. Senator
    Padilla and I have championed a one-time investment of $500
    million in local parks and open space as part of the Parks,
    Jobs, and Equity Act. Do you see this funding for local parks
    and connections into disadvantaged communities as a worthwhile
    infrastructure priority?
        Secretary Haaland. I absolutely believe that every American
    deserves to be in open space and it not be a chore to get
    there, yes.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Okay. Well, we share that, and I
    think that this is a great opportunity to do that. I am pretty
    much out of time. I do want to say that I heard, at least four
    or five times, and I think I would have heard it 100 times if I
    could have had more ears, that people said they would remember
    the Secretary of the Interior coming to some of these small
    towns--Palisade, Colorado and Ridgway--where people said they
    will remember this moment for the rest of their lives. It
    really does reflect very well on you and the Department of the
    Interior.
        Secretary Haaland. Thank you. Thank you, Senator.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Murkowski.
        Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Madam
    Secretary, welcome, good morning. There has been a lot of
    conversation this morning, or certainly a lot of questions with
    regards to the oil and gas review and the timing on that. Your
    Department has consistently said that this is going to be
    released early summer. Well, we are beyond early summer.
        Last month, you testified before the House Natural
    Resources Committee that it will be coming soon. Last week, you
    were quoted again that it will be ``soon.'' You have replied to
    Senators Manchin, Barrasso, Lankford, and Smith this morning
    that it will be soon. So I am not going to ask you when you
    think it is going to be coming because I think I know what your
    answer is, and I still do not--none of us know what your answer
    is. And so I hope you can sense the frustration that so many of
    us have in anticipating this and wondering when we will be able
    to expect that you will be in compliance with the judge's
    order.
        What I would like to ask of you, and you can provide me
    this in writing, is a list of stakeholders and entities that
    you have met with in Alaska, including state officials, ANCs,
    tribes, and private companies, as you have been doing this
    outreach for the review. And I would appreciate that in a
    timely manner.
        I want to switch to a subject that Senator Lankford touched
    on and this is the 30 by 30 program that has now been rebranded
    ``America the Beautiful.'' I have shared with you and with
    others in the Department my concern and my great frustration
    with the 17(d)(1) withdrawals in the State of Alaska. These are
    the millions of acres that are in restricted status, despite
    the fact that the report commissioned by Congress specifically
    said that these withdrawals have outlived their intended
    purpose. They need to be lifted now.
        The concern that I have now is that one of the reasons
    there may be hesitancy on lifting these ``d-1'' withdrawals is
    out of a fear that any measurable progress on the 30 by 30 goal
    could be impacted. You have kind of suggested to Senator
    Lankford, in terms of how--I am not quite sure how the
    Department is measuring the total numbers of lands being
    conserved under this program. I think we have, again, asked and
    not really been answered on that. But can you tell me whether
    any of the 17(d)(1) withdrawals that are lifted would be
    counted against the 30 by 30 goal?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I can't give you an answer on
    that. I don't think--in the conversations that my staff has had
    with stakeholders regarding 30 by 30, that issue has never come
    up.
        Senator Murkowski. Okay. I will be pursuing that to try to
    get a little more definition to that because that is one of the
    only things I can think of, in terms of why we have been
    further delayed on the d-1 withdrawals.
        I want to speak to an issue that I am sure you can
    anticipate. Senator Hickenlooper recognized that you have been
    to small communities in Colorado. Know that we are looking
    forward to your visit. I understand it will probably be some
    time in September. And part of that visit, as you have promised
    me and the Committee, is that you will take that opportunity to
    visit with the people of King Cove.
        Your Department has been working with the State of Alaska,
    the Department of Transportation, regarding these special use
    permits to conduct the surveys for the road that we have been
    talking about. We have had some hiccups, but I think initially
    your staff was really working with mine. They were working with
    the State of Alaska to ensure that these permits could be
    issued in time for the summer field season. Everything seemed
    to be going, really, pretty much on track until the beginning
    of this month. And now we find out that literally at the 11th
    hour of these permits being issued, the state already has
    contractors at the site preparing to begin to work, and we find
    out that the Department has rescinded the January 15
    secretarial memo that was issued by Secretary Bernhardt. This
    was the basis for these permits being issued.
        In fairness, the state was not alerted that it had been
    withdrawn. We were not alerted that it had been withdrawn. We
    had to find out that it had been requested through a media
    source. So now the Department is shifting this whole process
    for these permits by telling the state that Fish and Wildlife
    now needs to do a refuge compatibility analysis, a minimum
    requirements analysis, which may require public comment and
    review.
        So we have a situation here where, up until just literally
    days ago--maybe a week and a half ago--your Department was
    working with the state. They were working with us for six
    months to shepherd these permits. And not once was there any
    indication that these permits would not be issued, or that
    there was a problem for the basis of the permits, and that the
    process was effectively going to need to be changed.
        We have not been given any reason why the process would be
    changed for issuing the permits, or why the limited use of
    helicopters would now be denied, even though helicopters have
    been used for survey work in the refuge previously. So I just
    have to ask the question, what is going on here? Why was the
    state not notified that this January 15th memo had been
    rescinded?
        And really what I need from you is, I need a commitment
    that these permits are going to be issued, they are going to be
    issued, not soon, but they are going to be issued in the next
    two weeks and that the state be allowed to complete their
    survey work during this field season as everybody had
    anticipated would be done.
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I will find out. I don't know
    why the state wasn't notified, at this moment. But I will find
    that out and I will--yes, I will need to get to the bottom of
    that. I will take this issue back. I absolutely understand and
    we will make it a priority and talk about this as soon as I am
    back at the Department.
        Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Madam Secretary. I would like
    to provide you with just a timeline of all of the assurances
    that we have received in the past six months that everything
    was on track. I think that that will probably help you and your
    team. It certainly has led to the confusion and the
    consternation that has put us at this place today.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Kelly.
        Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning,
    Secretary Haaland. Great to see you again and congratulations
    on your confirmation as Secretary of the Interior.
        It is timely that you are testifying today on the
    Department's budget. At the same time, we are working on this
    infrastructure legislation. I would like to compare the
    Administration's budget request to the bipartisan
    infrastructure bill that is taking shape and your views here
    would be appreciated.
        I will start with the drought. For Fiscal Year 2022, the
    Administration requests $1.6 billion for the Bureau of
    Reclamation, the Department's primary water agency for western
    states. The American Jobs Plan proposes an additional $2.5
    billion for Reclamation to cover water efficiency and
    recycling. It also covers tribal water settlements and dam
    safety. I, personally, do not think that is enough. Across the
    West and in Arizona especially, we have hundreds of aging
    Reclamation projects, dam and irrigation canals that need
    repair. These are often leaking and they are inefficient. We
    also need resources to protect aquatic species impacted by the
    Reclamation projects, including fish and wildlife on the
    Colorado River.
        The bipartisan bill reported by this Committee earlier this
    month provides about $8.3 billion for Reclamation. This
    includes funding the water recycling, ecosystem restoration,
    tribal projects, and also Reclamation's aging infrastructure
    account that, by the way, has never been funded before. Another
    infrastructure priority in our rural communities--I mean, they
    are threatened by wildfire. The Committee's bill proposes over
    $1.1 billion to the Department of the Interior for wildfire and
    fuels management for burned-area recovery and for federal
    firefighter pay.
        By comparison, DOI received $220 million for wildfire fuels
    management last year. And according to the Administration's
    budget, that amount would treat burnable vegetation across 1.7
    million acres of federal and tribal lands.
        So Secretary Haaland, would you agree that a lot of good
    work in drought and wildfire resiliency can be accomplished
    under the bipartisan infrastructure proposal?
        Secretary Haaland. Absolutely.
        Senator Kelly. Thank you.
        Secretary Haaland. Yes.
        Senator Kelly. We are hoping and working today, still, to
    try to get this done.
        Secretary Haaland. Thank you.
        Senator Kelly. Very important for our country. It is
    certainly important for the West, especially for the State of
    Arizona.
        The bipartisan bill would also authorize $3 billion to fund
    cleanup of abandoned hardrock mines on federal, state, and
    tribal lands through an amendment co-sponsored by Senator
    Heinrich, Senator Daines, and myself. Arizona has roughly
    24,000 abandoned mines that we know of. Some 500 of these are
    cold war era uranium mines on the Navajo Nation. So we need to
    fund the hardrock mine cleanup program. Can we count on your
    support for these efforts?
        Secretary Haaland. We absolutely support cleaning up
    abandoned mines. Yes--yes, absolutely.
        Senator Kelly. The 500 uranium mines on the Navajo Nation
    has been a historic failure of government to not address this
    adequately. It is affecting the health of so many of the Navajo
    people and it needs to be addressed. So Senators Daines and
    Heinrich and I have put forth this legislation that would
    authorize the funds to clean up these hardrock mines. So thank
    you for your support. I yield back the remainder of my time.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Now we have Senator
    Daines.
        Senator Daines. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Thank you,
    Secretary Haaland for being here today.
        I want to talk about one of my favorite subjects. It is the
    grizzly bear. The successful recovery of the grizzly bear in
    the Greater Yellowstone and North Continental Divide epitomizes
    what the authors of the Endangered Species Act first
    envisioned. What they did not envision, however, was for these
    listing decisions to become hyper-politicized and to bounce
    around in the courts.
        Here are the facts. In the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem,
    in 1975--and these are the Fish Wildlife Service's numbers--
    there were 136 grizzly bears, according to their numbers. The
    criteria for recovery was 390. They raised that to 500 back in
    2006. And today, the FWS number is 728, nearly 50 percent above
    the already raised recovery target. In the Northern Continental
    Divide ecosystem--that is up along the Rocky Mountain Front in
    Central Montana--the criteria was 391 bears. Today, it is
    1,068.
        It has been over 16 years since the Greater Yellowstone
    grizzly bear was determined to be recovered--16 years. And
    while these two recovered populations languish on the
    endangered species list, conflicts with grizzlies are on the
    rise. In Montana, we have tragically already had two grizzly-
    human fatalities this year. There was a bicyclist who was
    bicycling across our state. She had a tent pitched in Ovando,
    Montana, back behind the museum there. It is a small town. And
    the grizzly bear came into town and ripped her out of the tent
    and brutally killed her.
        Now, Montana has a proven track record of conserving
    recovered predators and is more than ready to assume
    responsibility of managing the grizzly bear. For the sake of
    our communities, for our ranchers, for other wildlife, and the
    bear itself, it is time to restore management back to the
    state.
        Secretary Haaland, a simple yes or no question. Do you
    agree with the wildlife biologists from your own agency that
    the bear has recovered in these two ecosystems?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, if you'll permit me to just say
    I'm sorry for the loss of your constituents. It's a very sad
    story. I could--yes, the ongoing recovery is a remarkable
    success for the Act.
        Senator Daines. Okay, so you would acknowledge that the
    bear has recovered--exceeded the recovery targets in these two
    ecosystems?
        Secretary Haaland. It sounds like the Endangered Species
    Act has done what it was meant to do.
        Senator Daines. I think that is exactly right. We would
    heartily agree with that, that the numbers--it is not that
    complicated. There are targets and then, you take the FWS
    numbers, which I think many believe are on the conservative
    side, but they are still way above the recovery targets that
    were even raised once before, certainly in the Greater
    Yellowstone ecosystem. So thank you, that you agree with
    these--they have recovered in these two ecosystems.
        Do you agree with that statement, and if so, would you
    support my legislation to codify the Fish and Wildlife
    Service's 2017 rule, delisting the grizzly bear in the Greater
    Yellowstone ecosystem?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, we are more than happy to speak
    with you, to work with you, to make sure that we are listening.
    We are always happy to work with Congress, and this issue is no
    different.
        Senator Daines. I appreciate it. I think the frustration
    for so many Montanans is that you have individuals who are a
    long ways away, here in DC, who might not always be able to
    find Montana on a map, who are dictating policies that are
    affecting Montanans greatly when they look at their
    quantitative data that suggests it is very clear and compelling
    that the bear has recovered. We should celebrate that, that the
    bear has recovered, and transfer the management of the species
    back to the state.
        I want to talk about 30 by 30 for a moment. It has been six
    months since the Biden Administration first announced the 30 by
    30 initiative, and yet, few if any details of the plan have
    come out. The Administration says it is going to be locally
    led. It is going to incorporate working lands. But anybody with
    a public lands background knows that there are multiple
    environmental and land planning laws already in place to ensure
    this is already the case.
        Secretary Haaland, I asked you a similar question during
    your confirmation hearing, but I would like to try to see if I
    can get a clearer answer. Given the many planning and
    environmental laws guiding actions on federal land--NEPA,
    Federal Land Policy Management Act, ESA--in what meaningful way
    are locally led collaborations not already guiding public land
    conservation?
        Secretary Haaland. Well, I believe very strongly that a lot
    of locally led folks are participating in conversations about
    our public lands. And that is why we have been careful to
    ensure that we are bringing those folks to the table for this
    issue, as well.
        Senator Daines. Right. Mr. Chairman, I am in extra innings
    here. Thank you for your grace and I will turn it back to you.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Marshall.
        Senator Marshall. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Secretary
    Haaland, welcome back to the Committee and congratulations to
    you on your successful nomination. We know we are going to have
    a lot of fun working together and just look forward--we agree
    on so many goals together.
        Probably two hotspots back home are the size of the federal
    budget and 30 by 30. Your budget asks for an increase of 17
    percent. That is $2.5 billion. Are there plans in your budget
    to take some of those monies to implement 30 by 30, and what
    does that look like to you all?
        Secretary Haaland. I appreciate the question, Senator, and
    thank you, also, for the card that you sent over to my office.
    I appreciated that very much.
        With respect to 30 by 30, of course, we have felt that it
    is, you know, it is a collaborative initiative. We hope that
    many people--private landowners or, you know, organizations,
    farmers, ranchers will all participate in that. And we have
    done much to ensure that those conversations move forward.
        With respect to details on that, I would love to ask for
    Rachael's help, and she can perhaps provide more details.
        Ms. Taylor. Hi, Senator. Thanks so much for the question.
    We have spoken this morning already about how the initiative
    itself is in development, including what methods are going to
    be used to measure success and what the shape will be going
    forward.
        I think, to the point about the locally led conservation,
    you know, there are two pieces to it. One is that we do want to
    have better data collection across landscape levels to see how
    lands are being managed and conserved. And so there are some
    resources within the U.S. Geological Survey budget that support
    ongoing efforts to support databases to look at land cover.
        The other issue is the partnership programs that are so
    strong in the Department. I mean, 30 by 30 amplifies
    longstanding programs, state and tribal wildlife grant
    programs, joint venture programs in the Fish and Wildlife
    Service. And this is how we are reaching into some of the
    partner programs on the ground.
        Senator Marshall. So my question was, do you think that you
    will be using that extra $2.5 billion to purchase lands?
        Ms. Taylor. So the land acquisition budget right now is
    funded through the Great American Outdoors Act, which fully
    funded through--through that. So that is our acquisition
    budget, which is done through the mandatory----
        Senator Marshall. When it comes to CRP and other
    conservation programs, within your concepts of 30 by 30, will
    this all be voluntary, or will folks be forced to participate?
        Ms. Taylor. It is intended to be voluntary and locally led
    and to pull in programs. You mentioned the USDA program and we
    are looking across landscapes and at different federal
    partners, as well.
        Senator Marshall. Okay. Secretary, I would like to go back
    to the Endangered Species Act and forgive me if you have
    answered this already. But how do you measure success? How do
    you see success? You know, the grizzly bear is one example. The
    lesser prairie-chicken is another example where, when there
    have been private-government partnerships, we have seen some
    success. And of course, Mother Nature and rain help a little
    bit, as well. We know very well how to get on that list. How do
    we figure out how to get off the list?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I know that the Endangered
    Species Act is guided to a large degree by science and, of
    course, the data and the science are certainly important in
    making any of those determinations.
        I also--I mean, we have to add in another factor for so
    much of what we do, and that is climate change. We have seen
    how devastating climate change has been to the West, with
    respect to the drought that we are--the severe, extreme--I do
    not know how many more adjectives we can find to describe the
    type of drought we are experiencing in the West right now.
        And so all of those factors--you know, part of it, of
    course, is making sure that they have the habitat that they
    need. And in some places, yes, species are doing better than
    they are in other places. So taken as a whole, that is the job
    for the scientists and we listen carefully.
        Senator Marshall. Okay. Forgive me, a last question. Let's
    go back to CRP. Are you aware of the upstream and downstream
    economic consequences if we would take a third of the farmland
    in Kansas, or pastureland, and put it into conservation, that
    we would end up just needing to close high schools and, at
    least, every third hospital?
        Secretary Haaland. Thank you for that information, Senator.
        Senator Marshall. Okay. Thank you.
        Secretary Haaland. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Marshall. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Senator Cassidy.
        Senator Cassidy. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Madam Secretary,
    thank you for being here.
        You just mentioned in your last response to Senator
    Marshall that your analysis will factor in the climate change
    issue. We have seen, as this pause has continued, that the
    President is now, basically, begging OPEC to increase
    production because he wishes to hold down gasoline prices. And
    yet, we know from an Obama-era study, that oil produced in the
    Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) of the United States is the most
    environmentally, if you will, lowest carbon footprint per unit
    of production, of any oil that comes to our shores.
        Now, does your analysis include that, since clearly the
    Administration is begging for oil to be produced elsewhere in
    the world, that if it is produced in the OCS, that it actually
    has a lower carbon footprint per unit of production of any oil
    that comes to our shores? Does your analysis include that?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I know that we have a terrific
    team at the Department of the Interior, and I am positive that
    they are factoring in everything they need to in any decisions
    that they make.
        Senator Cassidy. Now, you are being far less specific than
    you were just with Senator Marshall, which always raises my
    kind of ``Spidey web'' senses a little bit because it seems as
    if the answer to Marshall was, boy, we are looking at climate
    change as a factor in these forest fires. But then, when I ask
    if the specific analysis shows data previously developed by the
    Obama Administration, the answer is more vague.
        Can I ask you to make sure that the scientists doing this
    analysis both take into consideration this previous Obama-era
    finding, they make explicit that it is used, and it turns out
    that the decision to continue the pause--which, by the way,
    seems to be illegal--is made, that this is explained, why it is
    being extended, in the light of this fact, which I just
    suggested?
        Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator. I will make sure I
    take this back to the Department.
        Senator Cassidy. Thank you. Now, we know that the pause is
    effectively defined. The federal judge has ordered a continue.
    But nonetheless, we have a new five-year leasing plan that will
    soon be required. Can you tell us what is the current status of
    developing the new five-year program and does the Department
    think it will have a final, new leasing program by the end of
    next June?
        Secretary Haaland. I was aware that the five-year plan,
    from 2017-2022, is coming to an endpoint and we do not yet have
    a specific timeline to release a proposed plan. But they are
    complying with the court decision. They are working on that, as
    well.
        Senator Cassidy. Of course. The court decision, as I
    understand, pertains to the current plan. I am speaking of the
    next five-year plan.
        Secretary Haaland. Yes, they are working on that next five-
    year plan.
        Senator Cassidy. And have you started the programmatic
    environmental impact statement?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I'd be happy to go back this
    afternoon, have a conversation with the Principal Deputy
    Assistant Secretary and make sure that you get an answer to
    your question.
        Senator Cassidy. Thank you. Again, you brought up the issue
    of climate change and how you are factoring all that in. During
    a recent hearing, the BOEM [Bureau of Ocean Energy Management]
    Director, Ms. Amanda Lefton, suggested that if we--you know, my
    words, not hers--but that if you leave it in the ground, you
    are going to decrease demand. That seems, again, a little bit--
    now, the Administration is begging OPEC to increase production,
    improving OPEC nations' economies, while at the same time, they
    are pausing development in our lands. There is a heck of a lot
    in there that the American workers should be angry about.
        But what are your thoughts on the need to influence demand
    in order to reduce climate change risk? Should we leave it in
    the ground?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, as I have said in my
    confirmation hearing and many times since, the gas and oil
    industry will go on for years to come. I don't see an end to--
    --
        Senator Cassidy. I get that, but that is not my point,
    really. The question is--because, clearly, Valero can import
    oil from Venezuela or from OPEC. Venezuela is part of OPEC, but
    from the Middle East, as opposed to bringing it onshore from
    the Gulf of Mexico. So they will be in business. The question
    is, are we going to produce the oil with our environmental
    standards, which are the best in the world? Or are we going to
    produce it with those of nations which take less care for
    emissions and which currently, the Administration is begging
    for them to increase production? So again, just to put a point
    on it, does it decrease demand if we do not produce U.S. oil?
        Secretary Haaland. I wish I were an economist and could
    answer you, in all certainty. My understanding is that if we
    move forward with our plans to create green energy
    opportunities for our country, that there will likely be less
    demand.
        Senator Cassidy. Not quite the answer, but I will not
    belabor. I yield back.
        The Chairman. Senator Hoeven.
        Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary, thank
    you for being here today. We appreciate it.
        I have talked to you before about the Mandan, Hidatsa, and
    Arikara (MHA) Nation in North Dakota. They produce about
    300,000 barrels of oil a day, and much of that goes through the
    Dakota Access Pipeline (DAPL). And so it is a very, very
    important source of revenue, jobs, and economic activity to the
    reservation. And they depend on the Dakota Access Pipeline to
    get their oil to market. And this is light, sweet crude. This
    is not the heavy crudes. This is very light, sweet crudes and
    we do directional drilling and have very good environmental
    standards.
        And so my question is, have you been briefed on the
    importance of energy development at MHA Nation, including their
    dependence on DAPL to ensure their trust resources are
    delivered to market? Have you been briefed on it?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I have not had any meetings
    with MHA, but none of the gas leases, or any of the pause that
    the President put on the gas leases are affecting tribal
    nations at all.
        Senator Hoeven. Right. But I just want to make sure you are
    aware of their energy development and that you have had
    briefing on----
        Secretary Haaland. I am aware that tribes do develop
    natural resources.
        Senator Hoeven. Well, and even in your own state, you know
    how much oil and gas development there is in your home State of
    New Mexico?
        Secretary Haaland. Yes.
        Senator Hoeven. And are you committed to working with the
    MHA Nation to make sure that they can continue their efforts
    and the importance to them of it for their economy?
        Secretary Haaland. I know that we always work to ensure
    that we are consulting with tribes and I believe that is our
    position.
        Senator Hoeven. In regard to the moratorium that the
    Administration has placed on oil and gas leasing, when will the
    Department resume scheduling lease sales?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, in answer to your question, we
    are complying with the court order currently and the Department
    in that area is working to move that forward. I cannot give you
    a specific date. I wish I could but, unfortunately, I cannot.
        Senator Hoeven. Do you think that the uncertainty that
    creates has hindered the development of domestic energy
    resources?
        Secretary Haaland. I would like to just point out that, as
    you know, and I have said many times, the pause was on new
    leases, not existing leases. There are thousands of permits and
    leases available right now for production.
        Senator Hoeven. Do you think it is better that we develop
    our oil and gas resources here, or rely on imports from foreign
    sources, like Russia and OPEC?
        Secretary Haaland. Well, as I have mentioned, also many
    times, this industry will go on for years to come and we will
    absolutely do our job as best we can.
        Senator Hoeven. I don't know if this situation exists in
    New Mexico, but I would guess it does. In a lot of cases in
    North Dakota, we have privately owned minerals, or maybe even
    minerals owned by Three Affiliated Tribes on reservation. And
    at the same time, we have minerals that may be owned by BLM, or
    some other federal entity, and no surface ownership by the
    federal entity--no surface ownership. In those cases, those
    minerals are held up from development--those private minerals,
    because of the federal moratorium and there is no surface
    ownership. Do you think that is fair to those private owners,
    which could be Native American owners?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I would have to get you a
    specific answer for your question and we'd be happy to send
    that to your office.
        Senator Hoeven. But it is something you might be willing to
    look into, just on the basis of fairness?
        Secretary Haaland. Yes, of course.
        Senator Hoeven. Public safety is a huge issue across the
    country, and certainly in Indian country. One of the things
    that we worked on was to develop, at Camp Grafton, law
    enforcement training for BIA law enforcement officers. We think
    it is incredibly important because we have a tremendous
    shortage of BIA law enforcement officers, particularly
    throughout the Upper Great Plains. Are you willing to help us
    continue that effort and are you willing to support that
    effort?
        Secretary Haaland. Absolutely. That is an issue that
    happens across the country. I met with tribes in Colorado
    recently and they are facing the same issue. So yes.
        Senator Hoeven. Thank you. Really important, I think, to
    help with public safety issues. So I appreciate that very much.
        Secretary Haaland. Yes.
        Senator Hoeven. The last question I have is in regard to--
    in the Theodore Roosevelt National Park, we are working with
    Interior and DOT to fix the Scenic Loop. It goes through the
    whole park, and people can drive through and see buffalo and,
    you know, elk and wild horses, and it is just phenomenal. But
    we need to get that fixed. That is underway. I just would ask
    for your continued commitment and support to get that done as
    soon as we can for the benefit of everyone who visits that
    national park.
        Secretary Haaland. We'd be happy to work with you on any of
    your national parks, Senator.
        Senator Hoeven. Thank you, I appreciate it.
        Secretary Haaland. Yes.
        The Chairman. Senator Lee, for a second round.
        Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Secretary Haaland, in our last round of questioning, I
    think
    we finished up as I was asking you questions about Tracy Stone-
    Manning. You declined to say whether you agreed with the
    statement issued recently by a White House official, indicating
    that the nomination of Ms. Stone-Manning was a massive vetting
    failure.
        Now, in a questionnaire submitted to this Committee, Ms.
    Stone-Manning suggested that she had never been the target of
    an investigation. Since that time, of course, we have learned
    that she was, in fact, issued a target letter, indicating that
    she would be indicted on criminal charges related to the tree
    spiking. Were you or the Department aware of those details
    prior to her nomination?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I was not aware of those
    details.
        Senator Lee. Were you or the Department aware that Ms.
    Stone-Manning had hired an attorney and negotiated an immunity
    deal prior to testifying in the tree-spiking case?
        Secretary Haaland. No, Senator, I did not know that.
        Senator Lee. Did you or the Department advise or in any way
    support Ms. Stone-Manning in indicating to this Committee that
    she had never been under investigation?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I have not met, nor spoken to
    Ms. Stone-Manning. I understand that is the President's nominee
    and that she is qualified to do a job that he has asked her to
    do. And that's pretty much that.
        Senator Lee. What about the Department?
        Secretary Haaland. The Department?
        Senator Lee. Have others at the Department done that?
        Secretary Haaland. I can't answer that. We'd be happy to
    try to answer any other specific questions you have on the
    record, though.
        Senator Lee. As I recall, at the time Ms. Stone-Manning was
    nominated to be the head of the Bureau of Land Management, you
    had been in office for about a month as Secretary of the
    Interior. Were you aware of public statements that Ms. Stone-
    Manning had made only months before her nomination, calling for
    homes built in forests to burn in forest fires?
        Secretary Haaland. I had not read any of that, Senator,
    and--I mean, yes, I am the Secretary of the Interior, but she
    is the President's nominee and I am not in a--I mean, I didn't
    nominate her. I am here to move the Department forward on the
    President's priorities, and that is what I am focused on at the
    moment.
        Senator Lee. Yes. I understand. I understand and I suspect
    you can also understand why, as a member of this Committee and
    as a Senator representing a state, two-thirds of which is owned
    by the Federal Government, and 40 percent of which is under the
    control of the Bureau of Land Management, why I might be
    concerned about that. And why I might be more specifically
    concerned about the fact that she tweeted an article written by
    her husband--an article that states, ``There's a rude and
    satisfying justice in burning down the house of someone who
    builds in the forest.'' She called it a clarion call. Do you
    agree with that statement?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I don't read Twitter these days
    and I certainly----
        Senator Lee. I am not asking whether you read Twitter. I am
    asking you whether you agree with the statement--as someone who
    represents a state where a lot of people have lost their homes
    and their livelihoods and their access to public lands that
    they care about.
        Secretary Haaland. Senator----
        Senator Lee. I do not agree with it. Do you agree with it?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, everyday there are articles
    about wildfires and fires and pictures of houses burning on the
    front page of the New York Times. And it makes me cry every
    time I see that. This is a terrible issue in our country right
    now, these fires, and we are going to do everything we can to
    help remedy that.
        Senator Lee. Do you believe it is appropriate for a person
    who has shown gratification in seeing homes burn because they
    are in forests to lead a key wildfire-fighting agency?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, what I can tell you is that I
    am going to do my level best to ensure that we are doing
    everything humanly possible to make sure that fires don't burn
    down our communities and people's homes.
        Senator Lee. Is it consistent with the desire to do
    everything you can to stop that from happening--would it be
    consistent with that objective that you have just described,
    which I appreciate--to put someone in charge of it who has
    expressed gratification over seeing people's homes burn? Now,
    she has a spouse that believes that allowing livestock to graze
    on public lands is ``destroying the West.'' Do you agree with
    that statement?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, I suspect that anybody who is
    leading in any portion of the Department of the Interior will
    carry out the laws of this country and the priorities of the
    President in a very meaningful way.
        Senator Lee. And you do not think she will be influenced by
    her feelings of gratification on seeing homes burn in forests?
        Secretary Haaland. I think that anyone who is leading the
    Department will do their best to ensure that we are protecting
    our public lands for every single American.
        Senator Lee. In her academic thesis, Ms. Stone-Manning
    supported polices to influence Americans to have fewer
    children. She said that it is not a problem elsewhere and that
    Americans should stop at one or two kids. Do you agree with
    those policies?
        Secretary Haaland. I don't think that anyone can make
    policies like that.
        Senator Lee. In the same thesis, she published a photo of a
    child with the caption, ``Can you find the environmental hazard
    in this photo?'' She then indicated that the child was the
    environmental hazard. As the father of three, it makes my
    stomach sick to think that anyone would label my child, or
    anyone else's child, as an environmental hazard. As a parent, I
    am sure you feel the same way. Were you or your Department
    aware of these statements prior to her nomination?
        Secretary Haaland. Senator, my child is 27 years old. I
    love her dearly. I wish I could I see her more. I, quite
    frankly----
        Senator Lee. Is she an environmental hazard?
        Secretary Haaland. She is her mother's daughter and takes
    her refillable water bottle everywhere she goes and does
    whatever she can to honor this earth.
        Senator Lee. I see my time has expired. I would close by
    expressing my strong concerns here. Look, I get it. Not every
    official in the U.S. Government is going to agree with me. Not
    every official appointed by a President who is of a different
    political party is going to be one that I am going to agree
    with. There are a lot of people I can support who I disagree
    with.
        In this Department--the Department that you head, and in
    this Bureau that Ms. Stone-Manning has been asked to lead,
    there is immense discretion--discretion that can have
    catastrophic consequences, not just economically, but for the
    day-to-day lives of the people I represent. That discretion is,
    in many cases, as a practical matter, almost unreviewable.
    Sure, court challenges can happen, but from one day to the
    next, there are a whole lot of those things that are really,
    ultimately up to the discretion of the director of that office.
        I would urge you and other members of this Administration
    to reconsider whether this is an appropriate choice. It is not.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. I want to thank the
    witnesses for joining us this morning for this discussion.
    Members will have until the close of business tomorrow to
    submit additional questions for the record.
        The Committee stands adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 11:55 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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