[Senate Hearing 117-41]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                         S. Hrg. 117-41

HEARING ON THE NOMINATIONS OF SHANNON ESTENOZ TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY 
 OF FISH AND WILDLIFE AND PARKS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR, RADHIKA 
   FOX TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR FOR WATER OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL 
 PROTECTION AGENCY, AND MICHAL FREEDHOFF TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR 
   FOR CHEMICAL SAFETY AND POLLUTION PREVENTION OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL 
                           PROTECTION AGENCY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 12, 2021

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
               
                              __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
45-118 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022                     
          
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               COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                  THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West 
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont                 Virginia 
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island         Ranking Member
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts      KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois            CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
ALEX PADILLA, California             ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
                                     DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
                                     JONI ERNST, Iowa
                                     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina

             Mary Frances Repko, Democratic Staff Director
               Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                              MAY 12, 2021
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware..     1
Capito, Hon. Shelly More, U.S. Senator from the State of West 
  Virginia.......................................................     4

                               WITNESSES

Estenoz,Shannon, Nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Fish and 
  Wildlife and Parks of The Department of Interior...............     8
    Prepared statement...........................................    11
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Kelly............................................    14
        Senator Capito...........................................    16
        Senator Boozman..........................................    22
        Senator Wicker...........................................    22
Fox, Radhika, Nominee to be Assistant Administrator for Water of 
  the Environmental Protection Agency............................    25
Prepared statement...............................................    27
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Kelly............................................    30
        Senator Capito...........................................    32
        Senator Sullivan.........................................    36
        Senator Ernst............................................    37
Freedhoff, Michal, Nominee to be Assistant Administrator for 
  Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention of the Environmental 
  Protection Agency..............................................    38
    Prepared statement...........................................    40
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Kelly............................................    43
        Senator Capito...........................................    44
        Senator Inhofe...........................................    51
        Senator Cramer...........................................    53
        Senator Lummis...........................................    55
        Senator Boozman..........................................    56
        Senator Wicker...........................................    62
        Senator Ernst............................................    63

                          ADDITIONAL MATERIAL

Letter from the office of Chemical Safety and Polution...........    69
Letters of Support for Radhadi Fox from Waterkeepers Chesapeake, 
  Moonshot Missions, and South Easterners Royal Community 
  Assistance Project.............................................    74
Letter to Acting Director from a number of organizations from 
  North Dakota...................................................    82
Article from Florida Phoenix to Shannon Estenoz..................   110
Letters of support of the nomination of Shannon Estenoz:
    43 undersigned organizations.................................   119
    Captains for Clean Water.....................................   121
    The National Park Hospitality Association....................   123
    The National Audubon Society.................................   124
    Bonefish and Tarpon Trust (BTT)..............................   125
    Hunters, anglers, outdoor enthusiasts, and land stewards.....   127
    National Parks Conservation Association (NPCA)...............   129
    Outdoor Recreation Roundtable (ORR)..........................   131
    Senator Marco Rubio..........................................   133
    The Corps Network............................................   134
Letters of support of the nomination of Radhika Fox:
    Association of Equipment Manufacturers (AEM).................   135
    Alexandria RENEW Enterprise..................................   136
    American Flood Coalition.....................................   137
    American Water Works Association.............................   138
    American Water Works Association Rocky Mountain Section......   139
    American Water Works Associatioin California-Nevada Section..   140
    Association of Regional Water Organizations..................   141
    Black & Veatch Corporation...................................   142
    Bowman Environmental Consulting..............................   143
    Chamber of Commerce of the United States of America..........   144
    Children's Environmental Health Network......................   145
    Nav Otal, Utilities Director, City of Believue...............   146
    Clean Water Action...........................................   148
    Undersigned members and partners of the Clean Water for All 
      Coalition..................................................   149
    Mount Pleasant Waterworks Clean Water........................   151
    Columbia Riverkeeper.........................................   152
    Community Water Center.......................................   154
    Cooper Ferry Partnership.....................................   156
    Coosa Riverkeeper............................................   157
    Community Water Systems Alliance (CWSA)......................   158
    Dietel & Partners............................................   159
    Ecosystem Investment Partners................................   160
    Evoqua Water Technologies....................................   161
    Family Farm Alliance.........................................   162
    Freshwater Furture...........................................   164
    Galveston Bay Foundation.....................................   165
    Georgia Section American Water Works Association.............   166
    GreenLatinos.................................................   167
    Gulf Coast Center for Law & Policy...........................   168
    Gulf Coast Sustainable Grower's Alliance.....................   169
    Education Conservatioin Cooperation..........................   170
    Internatioinal Union of Painters and Allied Trades, AFL-CIO..   172
    Iowa Soybean Association.....................................   173
    Maryland Department of the Environment (MDE).................   174
    Milwaukee Water Commons......................................   175
    Missouri Section American Water Works Association............   176
    Metropolitan Sewer District, Safe Clean Waterways............   177
    National Latino Farmers & Ranchers Trade Assiciation.........   179
    National Municipal Stormwater Alliance.......................   181
    National Parks Conservation Association, May 7, 2021.........   183
    National Recreation and Park Association.....................   185
    National Wildlife Federation.................................   186
    NC AWWA-WEA, American Water Works Association................   188
    Natural Resources Defense Council............................   189
    David P. Ross, Former Assistant Administrator Office of 
      Water, EPA.................................................   190
    OHIO Section American Water Works Association, May 4, 2021...   192
    Pittsburgh Water & Sewer Authority...........................   193
    Policy Link..................................................   195
    Physicians for Social Responsibility.........................   196
    PVC Pipe Association.........................................   198
    River Network................................................   199
    Seatle Public Utilities......................................   200
    SERCAP, Inc..................................................   202
    Sierra Club..................................................   203
    Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy...........   204
    The Conservation Fund........................................   205
    The Freshwater Trust.........................................   209
    The Green Infrastructure Leadership Exchange.................   210
    The Sewerage & Water Board of New Orleans....................   211
    The Water Research Foundation................................   212
    Tualatin Riverkeepers........................................   214
    Mayor Regina Romero, City of Tucson..........................   216
    United for Infrastructure....................................   217
    U.S. Water Alliance..........................................   218
    Marc Edwards, Affiliatio-University Distinguished Professor, 
      Virginia Tech..............................................   219
    Detroit Water and Swewerage Department(DWSD).................   221
    Water for People.............................................   223
    Water Foundation.............................................   224
    Wimberley Valley Watershed Association (WVWA)................   225
    State of Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources...........   226
    Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District (MMSD)..............   227
    Chamber of Commerce of the United States.....................   229
Letters of support of the nomination of Michal Freedhoff:
    Household Commercial Products Association....................   230
    ACS Chemistry for Life.......................................   232
Letter from several organizations to Hon. Michael S. Regan.......   234

 
HEARING ON THE NOMINATIONS OF SHANNON ESTENOZ TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY 
 OF FISH AND WILDLIFE AND PARKS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR, RADHIKA 
   FOX TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR FOR WATER OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL 
 PROTECTION AGENCY, AND MICHAL FREEDHOFF TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR 
   FOR CHEMICAL SAFETY AND POLLUTION PREVENTION OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL 
                           PROTECTION AGENCY

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, MAY 12, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:07 a.m. in 
room 253, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper 
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
    Present: Senators Carper, Capito, Cardin, Whitehouse, 
Markey, Kelly, Padilla, Inhofe, Cramer, Lummis, Boozman, and 
Ernst.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER, 
            U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

    Senator Carper. Good morning, everyone, Senator Capito.
    I want to start off the hearing today and welcome our 
witnesses. I want to welcome the family members and hope you 
will introduce those who are here to cheer you on.
    I want to start the hearing by expressing my thanks to 
Senator Capito, to Adam and the folks who work with you, Mary 
Frances, John Caine and others who are part of our Water team 
on the Democratic side.
    I like to describe this committee as workhorses, not show 
horses. I think we showed that in spades a couple weeks ago on 
the floor of the U.S. Senate. To be able to report out the 
first major infrastructure legislation and water bill on an 89 
to 2 vote was a source of great pride.
    I cannot tell you how many people have said to me, I am 
sure they have to you too, Senator Capito, how many of our 
colleagues have said it was like the Senate of old. People were 
able to offer their amendments but they also had the 
opportunity to share their amendments with us and we could make 
them a part of the manager's amendment.
    We had a real debate on amendments. We voted up or down and 
at the end of the day, we had just a wonderful vote, a very 
strong endorsement letter out of the Administration.
    I explained to some of my colleagues and my wife when I got 
home that night, I said that it was one of my happiest weeks in 
the U.S. Senate in 20 years. I am just very, very proud of the 
work that we did.
    We are working still on the next step, and that is surface 
transportation and I hope we can come through that with an 
equally good outcome.
    I just want to say thanks to everyone who has been a part 
of that, a special thanks to Senators Duckworth, Cardin, 
Inhofe, and Lummis. Thank you all for your good work and the 
work of your staff.
    I am happy to see you. Some of you look pretty familiar and 
the other two, I really have not had a chance to see except 
maybe remotely. We are pleased to welcome each of you 
outstanding nominees to fill critically important roles at the 
Environmental Protection Agency, and in one case, within the 
Department of the Interior.
    Thank you for joining us today. We thank your family 
members for joining us today. For those who might be joining us 
remotely, a big thank you to your family members who are 
willing to share you with all of us.
    Before getting to the particulars of our nominees, I want 
to take a moment to reflect on the issues we, as members of the 
Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, and our 
constituents back home are wrestling with that make these roles 
so critically important for each of us and each of our States. 
There isn't one of us who does not value the special natural 
spaces near our homes and in our States, including our national 
parks, including our wildlife refuges, from the First State 
National Historic Park to the Everglades and a lot of places in 
points east and west from there.
    These spaces support the fish, support the wildlife and 
quality of life that we take every opportunity to brag about. I 
know I brag about our national parks, I brag about our national 
wildlife refuges in our States and I suspect each of you do for 
your own. These spaces support the fish, the wildlife, the 
quality of life that we take again every opportunity to brag 
about.
    I think we have a moral obligation, which I talk about a 
lot, the moral obligation that we have to this planet that we 
have inherited. We have an obligation to care for these special 
places, we have an obligation to care for the habitats that 
they host, and the variety of species, including us, that they 
nurture.
    Of course, that requires skilled and committed leadership 
in places like the Department of the Interior. We are thankful 
to Shannon Estenoz for offering that leadership.
    Water has played, as I said earlier, a significant role in 
each of our lives already this morning. I don't know about you 
but we turned on the faucet at our home, brewed some coffee, 
and took a shower, with all the confidence that the water 
coming from our spigots was clean and safe, whether because of 
lead or PFOS contaminants or other contaminants, or because 
they simply can't afford it.
    We took a large step last week, as I said earlier, toward 
addressing the concerns with the passage of our Drinking Water 
and Wastewater Infrastructure Act, but there is a lot more 
still to do, as we know. I am grateful that Radhika Fox is 
ready to help us tackle those challenges at EPA.
    Every day, millions of people across our Country struggle 
with the threats posed by chemicals that pervade their homes, 
their workspaces, their water, their food and household 
products. Whether it is from PFAS in their water, for ethylene 
oxide in their neighborhoods, or formaldehyde in their 
wallboards, people are suffering.
    The American people need assurances that their products, 
their water, their food is safe for them and their families. 
That is a prodigious responsibility. We are grateful that 
Michal Freedhoff is willing to serve in this critical position.
    Michal, as some of you know, used to work with Ed Markey, 
or actually, I think he worked for her in the House for a long 
time and maybe in the Senate as well. We are delighted that you 
have this opportunity to serve in a new capacity.
    We are happy to welcome your daughters who are sitting over 
your left shoulder. I am always amazed at people like Michal, 
raising four kids, helping raise four kids and working really 
hard at the job here with all of us and somehow making it all 
work. Thank you.
    To the girls, I want to say, those who are here and those 
watching remotely, thank you for sharing your mom with all of 
us.
    Shannon Estenoz brings 24 years of conservation experience 
to the job, including as the Department of the Interior's 
Director of Everglades Restoration Initiatives and Executive 
Director of the South Florida Ecosystem Restoration Task Force. 
Her work prompted Eric Eichenberg, Everglades Foundation CEO, 
to say of her nomination, ``They are bringing on an 
extraordinary woman who is committed to the natural resources 
and environment of this Country.''
    Radhika Fox brings to her prospective role as head of the 
EPA Water Office a deep understanding of water policy and the 
importance of making clean water accessible to all Americans, 
regardless of their income or regardless of their zip codes. 
She has found success in working with people across the 
spectrum, prompting, I think this is a quote from the Iowa 
Soybean Association, and I am going to quote, ``Ms. Fox 
understands how water management issues are interwoven with the 
fabric of rural and urban communities and that our farmers must 
be part of the team and beneficiaries of this work. This 
integration is key for making real and long-lasting progress on 
protecting and improving water in the 21st Century.'' Again, 
that was a quote from Iowa Soybean Association.
    Last, but certainly not least, is Michal Freedhoff, someone 
well known to us at EPW. I already spoken about her and rather 
than embarrass her further, I think we will cut to the chase 
and let me just say that we are lucky to have someone who has 
your profound understanding of chemicals, oversight and 
management policy.
    During her time when she worked with Senator Markey, who 
was kind enough to let her come work with us on the Committee, 
she played a key role in helping convert a highly divisive bill 
to reform the Toxic Substances Control Act, better known as 
TSCA, into a package that gained broad bipartisan support 
throughout the Congress.
    It was initially championed by Frank Lautenberg, as I 
recall, and later by Tom Udall and by David Vitter, an unlikely 
partnership but one that was successful. Michal deserves a lot 
of credit for getting us to the finish line.
    It is that kind of knowledge-based, thoughtful and 
inclusive engagement that we so sorely need as head of the 
Chemical Safety Office at EPA. I think our Country will be well 
served to have Michal in that leadership role at EPA.
    I thank you all of you again for your willingness to share 
your wisdom, your expertise, and your inclusive instincts with 
our Nation.
    With that, I am happy to recognize the Ranking Member, 
Senator Capito, for her opening statement. Senator Capito.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, 
          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

    Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    It is nice to be here with you after our win on the Water 
Bill on the floor. I add my voice of congratulations to you and 
your leadership team and your staff. Our staffs worked great 
together.
    Somebody asked me, how did you do that? I said, well, we 
listened to our committee, and we listened to our witnesses, 
and we wrote a bill that tried to accommodate, as much as we 
could, the varying views.
    I think in a place where there is a lot of talking, maybe 
listening is the better key to getting things done. You are a 
great listener and I appreciate being a part of your committee. 
Thank you for that. I also do want to thank the staff.
    I look over here and I see three very talented women. I am 
very proud of the fact that, with your beautiful daughters 
here, we get to see more and more women taking the helm of the 
leadership positions in the highest levels of our government. 
Congratulations to the President for nominating three strong 
women and having them in front of our committee today.
    We are going to look at another core function of our 
committee. Then I want to add a caveat that we are working hard 
to do the same thing with surface transportation that we were 
able to do with water. It is a heavier lift, we are finding, 
but we are working hard together to reach that point at which 
we can bring something to not just our committee, but to the 
full Senate as well.
    We are gathering today to do the consideration and 
oversight of the President's nominees. You all have a wealth of 
experience in your respective fields, and the Chairman went 
over that.
    Unlike the past nominees who have appeared before us this 
year, all three of today's nominees are already in place at the 
agencies in which you are nominated to serve. Put in another 
way, you have already been beginning to execute President 
Biden's agenda.
    Ms. Estenoz, Ms. Fox, and Dr. Freedhoff, thank you for your 
willingness to serve and for appearing before us today. Given 
your perspective from now being inside the Administration, I 
especially look forward to hearing about the policies that you 
are working on. I am interested to know what roles you have 
played in the decisions that the Biden Administration has made 
to this point.
    I also want to understand in which new or different 
directions you would push the Administration, being in a 
Senate-confirmed role, and what additional authorities you 
believe that additional layer of accountability will allow you 
to bring. That insider perspective will be very helpful to us.
    From the outside, the pace of executive action has seemed 
to occur at warp speed and without a lot of external 
engagement, especially from many of us in Congress. As National 
Public Radio reported, President Biden issued more Orders in 
his first 100 days than any President since Harry Truman.
    NPR observed that Biden ``may have campaigned on bringing 
bipartisanship back to Washington, but much of his early focus 
at least is on policies that he can implement on his own.'' 
That is an NPR quote. Many of President Biden's key actions and 
reversals have come in the environment and energy policy area.
    I understand that we should expect a new Administration of 
the opposite party to have different positions than its 
predecessor. However, the pace of these changes and their 
unilateral nature concern me.
    Dramatic changes in regulations without adequate thought or 
input can hurt people, businesses, and local communities. That 
is particularly true during this economic recovery that we are 
facing.
    Of particular concern to me and this committee are issues 
like the Biden Administration's decision to revisit the 
Navigable Waters Protection Rule, we will be talking about 
that, the streamlined NEPA Act, and the recent Migratory Bird 
Treaty Rule, the last for which a proposal was just released 
last week.
    That said, some of the activities we have seen so far at 
the Department of Interior and EPA I do agree with and 
wholeheartedly support. Just last week, I participated in the 
sign unveiling for America's newest national park, really a 
source of pride for me, the New River Gorge National Park and 
Preserve. It is already bringing that economic opportunity and 
excitement to my home State. I cannot overstate how excited 
folks are, and I am too. Its administration will come under 
your oversight if confirmed, Ms. Estenoz.
    In the activities of EPA, I was pleased to see the 
Administration prioritizing research on PFAS in its budget 
proposal. I am also that glad EPA is moving forward with a 
primary drinking water regulation for PFOA and PFOS.
    If confirmed in the Office of Water, Ms. Fox would take the 
lead on that. We already talked about that on our Zoom call.
    Dr. Freedhoff, I know you have a wealth of experience. I 
believe we have actually been in the same room talking about 
PFOS together in your former role dealing with PFOS and other 
bioaccumulative chemicals from your years of service, including 
to our chairman, Chairman Carper. I look forward to hearing how 
the Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention also 
plans to address PFOS.
    I hope we can use this hearing to discuss both my points of 
concern and equally important, our areas of agreement.
    Thank you, Chairman Carper, for holding today's hearing. I 
turn it back to you.
    Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator Capito.
    When you said the words the New River Gorge, it brought a 
smile to my face. As a little boy, I learned to fish there with 
my dad and my grandfather. What a beautiful place.
    All right, thanks, Senator Capito. Now I want to introduce 
our nominees. I think Senator Markey is going to help me a 
little bit with one of them.
    First, we have Shannon Estenoz to be Principal Deputy 
Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and Parks for the 
Department of Interior. Shannon served as Chief Operating 
Officer and Vice President of Policy for the Everglades 
Foundation. She has also served as the U.S. Department of the 
Interior's Director of Everglades Restoration Initiatives, and 
Executive Director of the South Florida Ecosystem Restoration 
Task Force.
    Her previous professional roles also included Executive 
Director of the Environmental and Land Use Law Center; 
Everglades Program Director of the World Wildlife Fund; Sun 
Coast Regional Director of the National Parks Conservation 
Association; and three terms as the National Co-Chair of the 
Everglades Coalition.
    Shannon's public service includes appointments to Florida's 
Governor Lawton Chiles, with whom I had the privilege of 
serving as Governor, on the Commission for A Sustainable South 
Florida; Governor Jeb Bush's Commission for the Everglades; the 
Governing Board of the South Florida Water Management District 
and Water Resources Advisory Commission; and the Broward Water 
Resources Task Force.
    That is a pretty impressive list. We welcome you here 
today. I am going to ask you to share your testimony with us 
and then I will introduce Ms. Fox. Go ahead, please. Thank you, 
Shannon.
    Senator Markey. Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Why don't you please go ahead, Mr. Markey.
    Senator Markey. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. I 
would like to begin just by saying that I know your wife, 
Martha, thinks of you as a show horse while here you are a 
workhorse. But back in Delaware, you are the show horse.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Markey. I thank you, Chairman Carper, and Ranking 
Member Capito, for the opportunity to introduce Michal 
Freedhoff before the committee today. It is wonderful that two 
of her four children are here with us, the twins, her oldest 
daughters, Zahava and Rena.
    By nominating Dr. Freedhoff to serve as the EPA Assistant 
Administrator for Chemical Safety and Pollution Protection, 
President Biden is tapping an incredible scientific mind, a 
tenacious fighter for the public interest and a brilliant 
policymaker who has made a career out of bipartisan solutions.
    With all due respect to Senator Inhofe of Oklahoma, with 
whom we disagree on climate issues, I have to give credit where 
credit is due because it was Dr. Freedhoff, working with 
Senator Inhofe's staff, who got us to work together and pass 
numerous pieces of bipartisan legislation on brownfields, on 
chemical safety in the interest of consumers and our 
communities. In my opinion, there is truly no better candidate 
than Michal Freedhoff for this very important job.
    Dr. Freedhoff began her career in Congress in 1996 as a 
Science Fellow in my office in the House of Representatives. I 
couldn't have been too bad a boss because it began an 
incredible 20-plus years of work in Congress, including more 
than a decade of working with me in the House and the Senate 
from 1996 all the way up until 2017. congressional staffers and 
scientists reach a point in their careers where they have to 
pick whether to know a little about a lot or a lot about a 
little. Michal is the rare blend of the two who knows a lot 
about a lot of things. She truly is a congressional expert.
    From her successful work strengthening fuel economy 
standards and ensuring DOE whistleblower protections to raising 
the alarm about chemical disbursants used during the BP oil 
spoil to investigating nuclear safety, she has used her keen 
intelligence and scientific training as a chemist to draft and 
past the best policy.
    She also got me to sing about chemical safety and security 
in the Energy and Commerce Committee dais to the tune of What A 
Wonderful World It Would Be. Yes, she got gas chlorine to rhyme 
with water clean, so her talents truly know no limits. She 
really does know how to get things done.
    Michal was absolutely instrumental to our bipartisan work 
in strengthening the Toxic Substances Control Act. She can tell 
you what almost every chemical abbreviation stands for as well 
as what it would stand to do to our communities. For Dr. 
Freedhoff, the Periodic Table of Elements is her alphabet.
    She fought for firefighters, for workers, for children's 
health and for strong standards that provide certainty to 
businesses. During these negotiations, she worked to ensure EPA 
had enough funding from industry fees to assess and regulate 
chemicals and that industry had deadlines for compliance with 
EPA regulations.
    She pushed so that regulations on the most dangerous 
chemicals are finished more quickly and that if chemicals are 
found to be unsafe for groups like pregnant women, children, or 
workers, that EPA has to write regulations to protect those 
more vulnerable communities.
    She recognized that it is bipartisan commitment, married 
with consensus and give and take, that yields important, long-
lasting legislation. She is now in a position to help implement 
that historic legislation. Our communities and families will be 
healthier for it.
    I saw back in 1996 that there was a tremendous intellect 
and spirit in Michal. That excellence has only continued. For 
20 years, she has served the public in Congress making policy 
stronger and smarter at every turn.
    I urge the committee to approve her nomination as EPA 
Assistant Administrator for Chemical Safety and Pollution 
Protection. She served us well as Minority Director of 
Oversight on this committee. Now the entire Nation can benefit 
from her leadership, building the strongest possible 
protections against dangerous chemicals in our environment.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. I am Tom Carper and I approve that message.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Carper. We will not ask you to sing but we are 
delighted that you were able to introduce Michal to all of us.
    I am going to move next to Radhika Fox. We will just 
introduce you, then we will come back and ask you to give your 
comments. Ms. Fox currently serves as EPA Principal Deputy 
Assistant Administrator for Water. In that role, she is the 
Acting Assistant Administrator for Water.
    Ms. Fox has more than 20 years of experience in developing 
policies, programs and issues-based advocacy campaigns. She 
previously was the CEO of the U.S. Water Alliance. She also led 
the Value of Water Coalition, a program administered by the 
U.S. Alliance that spearheaded the popular Imagine A Day 
without Water Advocacy Campaign.
    Prior to joining the U.S. Water Alliance, Ms. Fox directed 
policy and governmental affairs for the San Francisco Public 
Utilities Commission, where my wife and I were last weekend for 
Mother's Day.
    Ms. Fox holds a BA from Columbia University and a Master's 
in City and Regional Planning from the University of California 
at Berkeley where she was a HUD Community Development Fellow.
    Finally, I am not going to attempt to match Senator 
Markey's comments with respect to Michal Freedhoff, but I think 
you can sense we know her and we love her. We are pleased she 
has this opportunity.
    I think it is really great, I will say this to this to your 
daughters, the law that your Mom was very much involved in 
writing, she now has the opportunity to implement for our 
Country and I think she will do very good work with us. That is 
something of value.
    With that having been said, I think I will come back to 
you, Ms. Estenoz, for your statement. Thank you and welcome. 
Feel free to introduce anyone who has joined us today in person 
or remotely if you would like to.

STATEMENT OF SHANNON ESTENOZ, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY 
  OF FISH AND WILDLIFE AND PARKS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR

    Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Chairman Carper, Ranking Member 
Capito, and members of the Environment and Public Works 
Committee. It is an honor to appear before you as President 
Biden's nominee to be Assistant Secretary of the Interior for 
Fish and Wildlife and Parks. I am very honored to be on this 
panel with these distinguished nominees from EPA.
    I want to say hello to my husband, Richard, our sons Nick 
and Spencer, my mom, my friends, my family who are all watching 
this morning.
    Senator Carper. Where are they?
    Ms. Estenoz. They are all over. I have folks in Pittsburgh, 
Arizona, Tennessee, Florida, everywhere. I want to say hi to 
everyone. Thank you.
    I am a fifth generation Floridian, born like all of my 
grandparents, in Key West. We call ourselves Conchs after the 
beautiful mollusk once plentiful in the Florida Keys. My father 
was a civil engineer and for the first 10 years of my life, his 
career took us to oil platforms off the coast of Louisiana, the 
Tennessee Valley Authority in Knoxville, and the U.S. Army 
Corps of Engineers in Kansas City.
    Before my father passed away in 1979, we returned to Key 
West where his last job was as an engineer for Monroe County, 
where he worked to replace the old Seven Mile bridge, perhaps 
the most famous section of the Overseas Highway.
    To grow up in Key West is to grow up on the water, 
swimming, fishing, snorkeling, boating and whether you know it 
or not, the water and its wildlife shape you. One of my 
earliest memories on the boat with my grandfather fishing was 
the day he caught me setting free the bait fish in his live 
well. He didn't scold me, because he knew there is no conflict 
between harvesting fish and wanting to protect them. Because 
when your family has been in a place for many generations, 
there is an instinct to conserve that has nothing to do with 
science or regulations. It has to do with a connection to place 
and to a way of life.
    My own career path includes many echoes of my father's. I 
too pursued civil engineering. As a student, I returned to 
eastern Tennessee to intern at Eastman Chemical Company. Of 
course, I dedicated 24 years of my career to an infrastructure 
modernization program, led by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, 
to restore the Everglades. I guess I never lost my childhood 
instinct to help fish, and birds, and mammals, and people, by 
helping to restore the land and the ecosystem that sustains 
them all.
    My father was a bridge builder, and as part of my work on 
Everglades Restoration, I was proud to play a part in building 
new bridges across the Everglades. Today water flows under 
those new bridges into Everglades National Park.
    So I know that jobs, infrastructure, conservation, and 
restoration can and should go hand in hand. My work in the 
Everglades was ideal training for the role of Assistant 
Secretary for Fish, Wildlife and Parks. I spent more than two 
decades in the trenches of collaborative conservation, land and 
ecosystem restoration, species recovery, water management, 
invasive species response actions, and National Park 
stewardship.
    I spent 7 years at the Department of Interior as its 
Director of Everglades Restoration, reporting directly to the 
position to which I have been nominated. I was a colleague and 
leader of the dedicated career staff in both bureaus that this 
Assistant Secretary manages.
    As a State official, I have been a customer of the Fish and 
Wildlife Service's regulatory programs. So I know firsthand 
what it is like to be a State trying to work with the Federal 
Government. As a stakeholder, I participated in the 
government's efforts to engage the public, and I have put in 
the hard work that it takes to build consensus and coalitions 
to get things done.
    I have been in my current role at Interior for 112 days. 
Every day I learn more about the fish and wildlife and parks 
issues facing your States and the Nation. If I am confirmed, I 
will draw on my long State and Federal experience as I work on 
issues such as water management and predator recovery in the 
West; protecting resources central to the cultural and economic 
well-being of tribes; combating invasive species; and 
collaborating on conservation of the sagebrush ecosystem.
    The National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service 
play crucial roles in the challenges before us: recovering 
species and conserving habitat; supporting recreation and 
restoration jobs on public lands; and stewarding our most 
treasured landscapes and imperiled species through threats like 
wildfire and drought that are intensifying as a result of 
climate change.
    The Fish and Wildlife Service is on the front lines of 
wildlife disease, including preventing those diseases from 
spreading to humans. The Park Service will play a key role in 
recommitting to our government-to-government relationship with 
Tribal Nations and telling the stories of all Americans.
    If I am confirmed, I will bring with me the tools that have 
served me best in my career: communication, transparency, and 
intellectual honesty. I will approach this role with a passion 
for collaboration and meeting big challenges in partnership.
    I look forward to celebrating together the results that we 
achieve together. I hope that today will be the first of many 
conversations with this committee.
    Thank you, and I look forward to answering your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Estenoz follows:]
    
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Carper. Thank you very much.
    Did you say your Mom is watching today?
    Ms. Estenoz. My mother is watching today, yes.
    Senator Carper. Your dad passed away a number of years ago?
    Ms. Estenoz. He did, when I was 11.
    Senator Carper. I am sure they are very proud of you.
    Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Thank you very much for that statement.
    The position that you have been nominated for was held most 
recently by Rob Wallace, who was a good friend of many of us 
and good for the John Barrassos as well. I will never forget at 
his confirmation hearing, he talked about the bipartisan nature 
of this committee and the way we work together, whether it was 
water, surface transportation or other issues.
    He said these words, he said, ``Bipartisan solutions are 
lasting solutions.'' I have quoted him a million times. Thank 
God, I haven't had to pay him for the times I have quoted him. 
That spirit really underlies much of what we do here. So thank 
you.
    Next is Radhika Fox. Ms. Fox, you are welcome to begin when 
you are ready.

STATEMENT OF RADHIKA FOX, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR 
        FOR WATER OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

    Ms. Fox. Thank you, Chairman Carper, Ranking Member Capito, 
and members of the Committee. I am humbled to be nominated by 
President Biden, and honored to be considered by this esteemed 
committee, for the position of Assistant Administrator for 
Water at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
    I am excited to engage with you today, to hear about your 
water priorities, and discuss how the Office of Water can 
support the communities that you so proudly represent.
    I want to acknowledge the family that is here with me 
today: my husband, Jamie; my dad, Dr. K., as his patients call 
him; my brother, Raghu, and his wife, Katie. And my kids, 
Anjali and Krishna, wanted to be here, but I said no skipping 
school.
    My family is the American dream at work. I am a first 
generation American. My father and my mother grew up in rural 
India. My grandparents provided for their families as small 
farmers growing rice, lemons and bananas. They relied on wells 
for their drinking water and pit latrines for their wastewater 
management. Everything I have accomplished is because I stand 
on the shoulders of my parents' hard work. Thank you for that, 
Dad.
    Today, I sit before you as the first woman of color, the 
first person of Asian-American descent, to be nominated to lead 
EPA's Office of Water. Only in America could that happen in one 
generation. If confirmed, it would be my honor to serve the 
country where my parents' hopes and dreams took root and 
flourished.
    Senators, as you all know, water is the world's most 
precious resource. However, our Nation's water systems are 
often invisible to most. The vast majority of Americans turn on 
the tap and safe water flows out. Used water goes down the 
drain and is treated before it is safely returned to the 
environment.
    Most people just don't think about the environmental 
policies, the funding and financing programs, the work of local 
water utilities, and the key role of States and tribes in 
providing these essential water services. It just works for 
most Americans, but not for all.
    During the Flint Water Crisis, Time Magazine told the story 
of 2-year-old Sincere Smith, featured on the cover with a full 
body rash from bathing in the water. What Sincere and his 
family experienced should not be experienced by any child or 
parent in this Country. That is really what brings me to this 
work.
    If confirmed, I will dedicate myself to ensuring that all 
people, regardless of their income, their zip code, or the 
color of their skin, will have access to clean and safe water.
    Prior to joining the EPA, I served as the CEO for the U.S. 
Water Alliance, where I championed consensus-based progress on 
complex water issues. I worked with water leaders across the 
country, from rural hamlets to urban enclaves, from America's 
heartland to both coasts.
    I also worked at the San Francisco Public Utilities 
Commission, the public water agency that provides drinking 
water, wastewater, stormwater and municipal power to 2.7 
million people in the Bay Area. There, I learned what it takes 
to comply with the range of regulations promulgated by the 
Office of Water, and I also built practical knowledge on how to 
manage water systems, whether it is capital and budget 
planning, infrastructure project delivery, planning for drought 
and diversifying of water supplies and managing through crises 
like wildfires.
    Throughout my career, I have been guided by one 
foundational principle: listen to all sides in order to find 
enduring solutions. If confirmed, I will manage the Office of 
Water in a manner that is grounded in the wisdom, the voice, 
and the lived experience of those who are impacted by our 
decisions.
    We can't make policy sitting behind a desk in Washington, 
DC. We have to actively engage with all those who are impacted 
by our decisions, whether it is water utilities, farmers and 
ranchers, community organizations, environmental organizations, 
States, tribes, local officials, and many, many others.
    I truly believe, Senators, that water is the great uniter. 
It can unite this Country; it can help pull us out of the 
compounding crises that face our Nation, whether it is a global 
pandemic, economic recession, longstanding racial inequities, 
and climate change. Water brings us together across society and 
across the aisle.
    If confirmed, it would be my honor to work with 
Administrator Regan and all of you to advance durable water 
solutions.
    I look forward to your questions. Thank you so much for 
your time.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Fox follows:]
   
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Senator Carper. Thanks again.
    Would you ask your Dad to raise his hand? Thank you so 
much. Who is that other fellow sitting next to him?
    Ms. Fox. My husband.
    Senator Carper. My staff tried to convince me he was your 
brother, but that is your husband.
    Thanks to both of you for being willing to share your 
daughter and wife with all of us. It is nice to see you all.
    Dr. Freedhoff, please.

    STATEMENT OF MICHAL FREEDHOFF, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT 
 ADMINISTRATOR FOR CHEMICAL SAFETY AND POLLUTION PREVENTION OF 
              THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

    Ms. Freedhoff. Good morning, Chairman Carper, Ranking 
Member Capito, Senator Inhofe, and other members of the 
committee.
    It is an honor to be here today, though I will admit it is 
kind of strange to be sitting on this side of the dais. I am 
fortunate to have what I think of as three honorary home State 
Senators on this committee: Senator Cardin, from my adopted 
home State of Maryland; Senator Markey, my first Capitol Hill 
boss and for whom I worked for more than 15 years; and Chairman 
Carper, who gave me the opportunity to work on this committee 
staff the last 4 years.
    Senator Inhofe. What about me?
    Ms. Freedhoff. OK, you too.
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Freedhoff. I am joined here today by my twin daughters, 
Zahava and Rena Van Leeuwen, who hopefully are not playing on 
their phones. Watching from home are my husband, Michael; my 
son, Sammy; and daughter, Vivienne.
    My late mother, Helen Freedhoff, and my 85-year-old father, 
Stephen, who is stuck behind a closed border in Canada, would 
have been here if they could have been.
    I moved to Washington the day after I defended my Ph.D. in 
chemistry. Although I didn't even have a job lined up, I was 
drawn to working in government, knowing that I could use my 
scientific background to make a difference in people's lives.
    During my time on Capitol Hill, I was remarkably fortunate 
to have had the rare opportunity to work with so many of you 
and your staffs to rewrite the Toxic Substances Control Act. I 
certainly never imagined that I would have this once in a 
lifetime honor to be President Biden's nominee to lead the 
Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention at EPA and 
implement the law that we all worked so hard on.
    During my more than two decades working for the legislative 
branch, I believe I earned a reputation for being fair, 
approachable, substantive, and able to craft provisions and 
consensus by bringing people with disparate viewpoints 
together.
    Many provisions of this committee's unanimously supported 
PFAS legislation demonstrate the way I approach the legislative 
process. Some of these measures, like adding almost 200 PFAS 
chemicals to the Toxics Release Inventory that Senators Capito, 
Gillibrand and Carper co-authored, actually fall within the 
office I would manage if confirmed.
    It is that spirit of collaboration that I would bring to 
this new role. I believe that we can, and we must, fulfill 
EPA's mission of protecting human health and the environment in 
a manner that includes input provided by a diverse set of 
stakeholders. That applies to ensuring chemical safety under 
TSCA, to providing safe, effective tools for farmers to protect 
our food supply under the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and 
Rodenticide Act, FIFRA, and to working to incentivize more 
sustainable practices and products in our pollution prevention 
programs.
    If confirmed, one of the responsibilities I most look 
forward to is implementing the Frank Lautenberg Chemical Safety 
for the 21st Century Act, TSCA. I consider that work to be a 
highlight of my career.
    Some combination of the complexity of the subject matter, 
the intense debate surrounding some of the issues, and the 
shared legislative battle scars made the bipartisan team of 
staff, who spent months together as we worked to get it done, 
among my most trusted colleagues and friends today still. We 
took the time needed to understand each other's perspectives 
and made important compromises as we negotiated difficult and 
sometimes very divisive provisions of the bill. That hard work 
produced a law that was supported almost unanimously.
    I want to provide my assurance that if confirmed, I will 
ensure that our activities are conducted transparently, using 
the best available science and informed by EPA's expert career 
staff. While you may not ultimately agree with every decision I 
make, I can commit to you that if confirmed, all our decisions 
will be well documented, transparently made, and will seek and 
incorporate input from all stakeholders.
    Finally, while I have worked closely with EPA staff for 
years, I have developed newfound appreciation for their 
dedication, talent and resilience since arriving at the agency 
a few months ago. I am looking forward to working with the 
scientific, legal, and policy staff to implement America's 
chemical and pesticide safety programs.
    If confirmed, I am confident that with their partnership we 
can move TSCA implementation forward in a manner that honors 
the late Senator Lautenberg's legacy and lives up to Congress's 
expectations that EPA uses its new authority to protect 
Americans against the risks of unsafe chemicals.
    Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify, and I 
look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Freedhoff follows:]
    
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Carper. Thank you very much for that statement, 
Michal.
    Before I turn to Senator Capito for the first round of 
questions, we have something we do at each of our hearings with 
witnesses who have been nominated. I ask you three questions. 
After I ask the question, we will just go down the line and you 
can say yes or no. I would urge a ``yes'' response but it is up 
to you.
    The first question is, do you agree, if confirmed, to 
appear before this committee or designated members of this 
committee and other appropriate Members of the Congress, and to 
provide information subject to appropriate and necessary 
security protections with respect to your responsibilities? Do 
you, Ms. Estenoz?
    Ms. Estenoz. Yes.
    Senator Carper. Ms. Fox?
    Ms. Fox. Yes.
    Senator Carper. Dr. Freedhoff?
    Ms. Freedhoff. Yes.
    Senator Carper. Thank you. So far so good. Second question, 
do you agree to ensure that testimony, briefings, documents and 
other electronic forms of information are provided to this 
committee and its staff and other appropriate committees in a 
timely manner?
    Ms. Estenoz. Yes.
    Ms. Fox. Yes.
    Ms. Freedhoff. Yes.
    Senator Carper. Thank you. One last one. Do you know of any 
matters which you may or may not have disclosed which may place 
you in a conflict of interest if you are confirmed?
    Ms. Estenoz. No.
    Ms. Fox. No.
    Ms. Freedhoff. No.
    Senator Carper. Thank you. Senator Capito, we are going to 
have two 5-minute rounds in terms of questions. She needs to be 
in two places at one time right now and the Commerce Committee. 
Thank you very much for being here.
    Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for giving me the 
privilege of going first. I apologize, after I question them, I 
have to go over to Commerce. We are working on the Endless 
Frontiers Act which is----
    Senator Carper. Endless.
    Senator Capito. Endless. That is a good way of putting it.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Capito. I am going to start with you, Ms. Fox. We 
talked about this issue on Waters of the U.S. You have all 
pledged clarity, thoughtfulness and regulatory certainty.
    Administrator Regan committed to not going back to the 
verbatim reading of the 2015 Obama Waters of the U.S. rule. 
This is a very far-reaching rule that impacts a lot of people 
and a lot of agriculture as well. But he hasn't provided much 
detail on this.
    I am wondering, in your opinion, do you believe that the 
2015 rule was overreaching? What would your plans be to ensure 
we do not return to that overreaching definition which I, 
obviously, believe that it was? Also, do you agree or disagree 
with the court decision, including the injunctions against the 
rule issued in 2015?
    Ms. Fox. Thank you, Senator Capito, for the question. Also, 
thank you for the opportunity to visit with you recently on so 
many of the issues before the Office of Water. I really look 
forward to accomplishing great things with you and your office 
if confirmed.
    On the question of Waters of the U.S., this is, of course, 
one of the most foundational components of the work before the 
Office of Water because it sets the foundation for how we 
protect our lakes, our rivers, our oceans, our wetlands. We are 
in the process of reviewing the Navigable Waters Protection 
Rule. Under Administrator Regan's direction, we are really 
trying to understand what are the lessons learned from an 
implementation perspective on both the 2015 rule and the 2020 
rule.
    You asked about how we are going to approach that review 
and that consideration. It will really be, as Administrator 
Regan has said, to listen to all sides to understand what is 
working, what is not working from an implementation 
perspective, from the agricultural community, from industry, 
from environmental organizations, as well as our co-regulators, 
the States and tribes. Based on that feedback, and really based 
on the science and the economic analysis, we will make a 
determination moving forward.
    What I can say, Senator Capito, is that Administrator Regan 
and I want an enduring definition of Waters of the U.S., one 
that can withstand Administration changes, that can protect our 
waters and ensure the economic vitality of all communities. 
That is our commitment as we do this review.
    Senator Capito. I would implore you again, as I think a lot 
of folks did who opposed the direction the Obama administration 
went, that we don't go down that path again. Obviously, the 
courts agreed with that presumption and caused a lot of 
confusion at the same time.
    Ms. Estenoz, I wanted to ask you about NEPA. Just recently 
Secretary Haaland signed secretarial orders that directed the 
DOI to ignore and to not follow the commonsense reforms to the 
implementation of NEPA. We hear about this from everybody in 
terms of how long it takes to get things approved, how long the 
process is, how lengthy and expensive it is, and we still are 
having issues.
    Did you play any role in advising the Secretary in the NEPA 
implementation decision? Are there elements of the Trump 
Administration's NEPA reforms that you could support? The first 
question is, did you play any role in them?
    Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator Capito.
    I was not directly involved in the development of the NEPA 
recommendations, but as part of the DOI leadership team during 
these first 112 days, I have paid close attention. Obviously 
for the two bureaus that I have managing, this is a very 
important issue for them.
    I think the Secretary's goal here is to make sure our 
environmental reviews are thorough but also timely and 
efficient. I think it is very important that balance be struck.
    We are reviewing the procedures and policies the previous 
Administration had in place. The elements of it that work, I 
fully expect we will continue those and refine those that need 
to be refined to achieve the right balance between thoroughness 
and timeliness.
    In my career, I have been on all sides of NEPA. So I have 
been a customer waiting for a NEPA to be finished and then I 
have been involved in the development of them. So I am 
sensitive to how long those analyses can take. But again, I 
think it is finding that right balance between making sure they 
are thorough. It is an important bedrock of the way that 
government implements programs and projects, and then doing it 
in a way that is efficient, transparent and accessible to the 
public and to sort of our customer base for projects and 
programs.
    Senator Capito. As we look to the big Surface 
Transportation Bill that we are working on, that is obviously a 
critical aspect of this. I would encourage you to take that 
practical experience that you bring in terms of length and 
time, without skirting any environmental regulations, into 
consideration.
    The new national park in West Virginia, since you will have 
oversight over the national parks, I wanted to get a 
reassurance, No. 1, that you would come and visit our brand new 
park, where he learned to fish with his father and grandfather. 
It is a really special place. So, a commitment that the new 
park will be able to get the infrastructure that is needed with 
the increase visitorship that we are already seeing.
    Ms. Estenoz. Senator, let me say that I, my husband, and 
our two at the time very young children spent a magical summer 
vacation at New River Gorge, one of the most magnificent places 
in our Country. For a Florida girl, where we measure topography 
in inches, it was really a staggering and profoundly impactful 
experience for me. It is really one of my favorite places. You 
can count on me, if I am confirmed, to make sure that the 
National Park Service has what they need to make the most of 
that. I want to congratulate you and Senator Manchin on that.
    Senator Capito. We will have to clip that and put that out 
around the Country. That is a great advertisement for our 
beautiful spot.
    Last question, Dr. Freedhoff on the PFOS issue. You know 
this is something I am deeply committed to and you mentioned it 
in your opening statement.
    Do you feel there is a scientific gap between the tools 
that EPA needs to decide whether or not to regulate? It seems 
like it has taken so long in some ways. Is that because there 
is a gap in tools and a gap of certifiable data that can be 
used to move forward?
    Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much for that question, Senator.
    I know how important the issue is to you and to so many 
members of the committee as well. I know there is sometimes a 
disconnect between the urgency that people expect the agency to 
be able to act with and the urgency that we actually act on.
    Senator Capito. Right.
    Ms. Freedhoff. Part of the reason for that are the research 
gaps that you are talking about. One of the provisions that was 
in this committee's PFOS legislation was language directing 
EPA's Office of Research and Development to come up with a way 
to prioritize PFOS so that the agency will be able to focus its 
research and monitoring efforts a little bit more 
strategically.
    In my office, if I am confirmed, there are a few different 
efforts that we have been working on that will help complement 
that. First is the Toxic Release Inventory language that you 
co-authored which will give us information about which PFOS are 
still being released into the environment.
    Second is a proposed rule that is at OMB that will require 
manufacturers who make PFOS to tell us what they made, how much 
they made and what it was used for. That would give us a 
snapshot of what is in commerce. That will also be able to 
inform our research efforts, and monitoring and regulatory 
efforts as well.
    Finally, just a couple weeks ago, we announced a policy 
that is designed to prevent unsafe new PFOS from entering 
commerce. That will prevent future problems that will cause us 
to play catch-up again as well.
    Senator Capito. I appreciate that.
    Thank you so much. I have to run.
    Senator Carper. Thanks for being here. We will see you 
later.
    I will start my questioning with Ms. Fox. Ms. Fox, if 
confirmed, what will you do to make sure we have affordable, 
clean and safe drinking and wastewater for all Americans?
    Ms. Fox. Thank you, Senator Carper.
    First, I would make sure that the Office of Water is 
implementing the range of water infrastructure funding and 
financing programs that this committee has taken so much 
leadership on developing. I would also focus on strengthening 
and supporting the capacity of our States and our tribes, 
because they are often the ones that are working with local 
communities and getting these resources delivered.
    I also think we have an opportunity to do more on 
affordability. I know this is an issue that is very important 
to you and other members of the committee, that as we make 
these infrastructure investments, we have to do them in a way 
that makes them continue to be affordable both to individual 
families, but also that there is affordability at the utility 
scale.
    A third priority will really be around PFOS and emerging 
contaminants. I think as Michal just said, we have so much 
exciting work happening at EPA right now. I was really proud 
just a couple of weeks ago to be asked by Administrator Regan 
to co-chair a new PFOS Executive Council. I think that is going 
to be important as we think about making sure that water is 
clean for all families.
    Senator Carper. My second question is for Dr. Freedhoff. 
Dr. Freedhoff, first of all, let me say I am very pleased you 
received support from former EPA Administrators, both Democrat 
and Republican, who have led the Office of Chemical Safety and 
Pollution Prevention before you.
    I would like to ask unanimous consent to enter into the 
record a letter from no less than seven former directors or 
administrators of the Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution 
Prevention urging your confirmation.
    Not hearing any objection, so ordered.
    [The referenced information follows:]
    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5118.174
    
    .EPS[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5118.175
    
    .EPSSenator Carper. One area I am really interested in, and 
I suspect many of us are, in hearing from you on, and I suspect 
many of us are, is how EPA plans to implement TSCA, the Toxic 
Substances Control Act, to protect American workers. We have 
heard from environmental groups that they are unhappy with the 
way EPA assumed workers would always be wearing protective 
gear. We have heard from companies that they are unhappy that 
EPA made unrealistic assumptions about risks to workers.
    With that in mind, would you tell us how you think the 
worker safety concerns should be addressed?
    Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much for that question, Mr. 
Chairman.
    I have heard a lot from environmental organizations and 
industry as well. As you know, the last Administration 
finalized the first ten risk evaluations under TSCA. I think 
there was a lot of good work that went into those risk 
evaluations but I think a lot of them were rushed as well. But 
I also know the career scientists at EPA really moved heaven 
and earth to get them done.
    So I can't really speak to you as to why those decisions 
were made, but I can tell you a little bit about how I see the 
issue of worker safety and how I would implement it if 
confirmed. First of all, if our scientific risk evaluations 
find that a chemical burns your hand, but gloves solve that 
problem, then our chemical safety rule is just going to say you 
have to wear gloves.
    It is the same for OSHA. If the chemical safety risk 
evaluation finds a risk we identified can be solved by 
complying with OSHA regulations, then our rule is just going to 
say follow OSHA rules.
    The second thing I would say is that industry clearly feels 
like it has a lot of information that the agency needs to make 
our decisions. I have met with industry a number of times and I 
really want to say that I welcome their input. If they show us 
that something that they are currently doing to protect workers 
is enough to address the risk, then our rule is just going to 
say, keep on doing what you are doing.
    The third thing I would say is I think the agency could do 
a better job with risk communication. The law tells us that we 
have to look at potentially exposed and susceptible 
subpopulations. Of course that includes workers.
    But saying that a risk exists to workers in the absence of 
protections doesn't mean the protections are absent at chemical 
companies all over this Country. I think we will do better in 
the future to provide context that is important for everyone to 
understand in future.
    Senator Carper. My time has expired.
    Senator Inhofe, you are next. According to my list, Senator 
Whitehouse is going to join us next by Webex. I see we have 
been joined by Senator Cramer. Senator Markey was here and he 
may come back. My guess is he will. We are looking for Senator 
Kelly and Senator Padilla as well.
    Senator Cardin. Senator Cardin is on Webex.
    Senator Carper. Senator Cardin on Webex. Good. Thank you.
    Senator Inhofe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I do have a question for each of the witnesses. I am been 
looking forward to this. I had a chance to visit with some.
    Let's start with you, Ms. Fox. The WOTUS rule that was in 
place prior to the last Administration was one that we had a 
real concern with out in Oklahoma. That was primarily that we 
had the idea that the State regulation of the water was working 
very well in our State of Oklahoma.
    There is a fear that with a regulation coming from 
Washington, that even out, we are a pretty arid State. If you 
get out in the panhandle of Oklahoma, it does not get a lot 
drier than that. They were saying they felt that under the 
Federal rules that would probably end up being a wetland and be 
over-regulated.
    So I would just like to know the specifics on the rules 
that Trump replaced WOTUS with, what specific things about that 
do you find to be objectionable, if any?
    Ms. Fox. Thank you for the question, Senator.
    I think the example you just shared from your home State of 
Oklahoma is exactly why, if confirmed, I would really manage 
the Office of Water in a way that really tried to understand 
the wisdom, the voice and the lived practical experience of 
people in complying with our rules. I bring that orientation 
because I worked at a local water agency that had to comply 
with all of the things that the Office of Water did.
    To your question specifically, as we have been conducting 
our review of both the 2015 rule and the 2020 rule, really at 
the direction of Administrator Regan, we have found 
implementation challenges with both of the rules. For example, 
with the 2015 rule, there were a lot of case-specific 
jurisdictional determinations. What we found from listening to 
folks in the States is that was really cumbersome from an 
implementation perspective. That is what our career staff have 
heard.
    At the same time, I think the 2020 rule tried to correct 
for that. But now what we are hearing, our career staff are 
hearing from several States is, now we have the vast majority 
of waters in some of the States that are now not 
jurisdictional. So it is raising a different kind of 
implementation challenge as far as water quality protection.
    Senator Inhofe. I don't mean to interrupt you but I know I 
have to get to all three of you. I appreciate your comments. 
Particularly your opening statement, I enjoyed that. I look 
forward to working with you. If you don't behave, I am going to 
talk to your Daddy.
    I want to real quickly go to Ms. Estenoz on the Lesser 
Prairie Chicken. I know you are fully familiar with that. You 
and I had a chance to visit about that.
    We are facing something right now in a Federal court in 
Texas about the threatened listing for the Prairie Chicken. The 
reason at that time they didn't think the conservation efforts 
were really impressive, were really considered at that time. We 
are talking about five States who are involved in this. You and 
I had a chance to talk about that.
    I would just like to kind of get your input into how much 
weight are you going to put, attach to, the conservation 
efforts of the five States in terms of your jurisdiction?
    Ms. Estenoz. Senator Inhofe, thank you so much. Thank you 
for the time you spent with me talking about this and other 
issues. I very much appreciate it.
    We are under a court deadline to issue a 12-month finding 
near the end of the month. What I would say is that the 
conservation efforts of States and private landowners are 
central, really, to any hope we have for recovering species, 
before they are listed or whether they are listed or not, 
regardless of their conservation status.
    You gave me good counsel yesterday to reach out and learn 
more about those conservation efforts. I have already taken 
steps in the last 24 hours to begin that dialog. I think that 
is really where the hope for the Lesser Prairie Chicken lies, 
in our collaborative efforts to recover that species.
    Senator Inhofe. That is good. We will be visiting with you. 
I appreciate it very much. I have every reason to believe that 
you will take great consideration of the input that is out 
there.
    Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Carper. Your time has expired but go ahead. We are 
going to have a second round as well.
    Senator Inhofe. I have a picture here I want everyone to 
look at. I want the little girls here, Zahava and Rena, to 
listen to what I am saying. Your Mama probably is the only 
person in America that will have equal praise from Senator 
Markey and me. I say that in all honesty, because we have 
worked so well together.
    In fact, we shared some credit. I have often said I felt 
that I was more responsible for getting Barbara Boxer to come 
with us on the chemical legislation and they all now are giving 
you that credit. So I am not sure, I think we shared that 
credit at that time. And I have always enjoyed working with you 
and certainly do.
    I would like to have any comment you would make to update 
us as to what we are going to be doing with the Prairie 
Chicken. You and I both know all the background of that. I 
would like to see where you think we are going to be on that 
issue.
    Senator Carper. I would ask you to be very brief if you 
will, please.
    Ms. Freedhoff. I am hoping that I don't have to talk about 
the Prairie Chicken for the entire 4 years that I spend in this 
position if I am confirmed.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Carper. That was very brief and to the point. I 
think she got her message across. That was lovely. I am glad 
you asked for the extra time. We will come back to you for a 
second round, Senator Inhofe.
    Senator Inhofe. We will.
    Senator Carper. Senator Cardin is going to join us next by 
Webex, followed by Senator Cramer, Senator Whitehouse by Webex, 
Senator Lummis by Webex, Senator Markey, and Senator Kelly.
    I have to go join a Finance Committee hearing for a little 
bit. Senator Kelly is good enough to take the gavel for me 
while I do that. Senator Kelly, I think Ben Cardin is up next.
    Senator Cardin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Let me thank all of our witnesses. I have had a chance to 
meet with each of you. Thank you very much for your public 
service.
    I would first ask unanimous consent to submit letters of 
support for Ms. Fox to be Assistant Administrator of Water from 
three Maryland organizations: Waterkeepers Chesapeake, Moonshot 
Missions and South Easterners Royal Community Assistance 
Project.
    Senator Kelly.
    [Presiding] Without objection.
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    Senator Cardin. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Estenoz, if I could, we had a wonderful conversation 
and I appreciate your knowledge and sensitivity to the wildlife 
refuges that are located in the State of Maryland and your 
desire to fill critical positions, your knowledge of the 
National Park System in our State of Maryland and the request 
to expand the National Park System and your sensitivity to 
that, your understanding of the Chesapeake Bay and the 
importance it has to our entire region.
    I am going to ask you a question we did not have a chance 
to talk about during our meeting, one I think is critically 
important in the theme of the Biden Administration in dealing 
with equity issues. One of the goals of the 2014 Chesapeake 
Watershed Agreement is to expand public access to the Bay and 
its tributaries through existing and new local, State and 
Federal parks, refuges, reserves, trails and partner sites.
    Can you share with us how you would prioritize the 
accessibility of outdoor space and the equity issues and so 
many Americans today who would enjoy access but find it 
difficult if not impossible to gain access?
    Ms. Estenoz. Senator, thank you so much. Again, thank you 
for the time you and your team spent with me this week. I 
appreciated that so much.
    Expanding public access to nature and public lands is a top 
priority for the Administration, for the Secretary. If I am 
confirmed, it will be a top priority for me. We have spent a 
lot of time in the last 112 days talking about the programs we 
have and that we can leverage, existing programs that we can 
leverage to increase public access.
    Our National Wildlife Refuge System is particularly 
promising in terms of its accessibility to underserved 
communities and the millions of Americans that live within a 
60-minute drive, for example, of a National Wildlife Refuge and 
looking for opportunities to help those folks get out to our 
public lands.
    The other very big opportunity we have is in the LWCF 
Program. On Monday, we just announced the Outdoor Recreation 
Legacy Competitive Grant Program of $115 million. We are so 
grateful for the Congress' work to fully fund LWCF.
    That program is specifically designed to help underserved 
communities, rural communities, and urban communities increase 
their access to parks and open space. It is one of the 
initiatives that I am the most excited about. If I am 
confirmed, it will be one of my top priorities.
    Senator Cardin. I look forward to working with you on those 
issues, because I think it is an area where we can make 
significant progress and get greater support for the programs 
of our national parks, refuges and just conservation.
    Ms. Fox, I want to ask you one question. We had a chance 
also to talk about the resiliency and stabilization funds that 
were approved by the Senate, and the affordability issue. I 
want to just, if I might, talk about water affordability.
    It is extremely challenging for the ratepayers to have to 
deal with what is necessary for clean, safe drinking water. 
Senator Wicker and I have put into the bill passed by the 
Senate a pilot program on water affordability that would be 
implemented by the EPA. It would be a new program for you all 
to implement.
    Can you just tell us your willingness to take on this 
responsibility if we get you the resources and authority?
    Ms. Fox. Yes, thank you, Senator Cardin, for the question 
and for the opportunity to visit with you earlier this week.
    Absolutely, if confirmed, water affordability would be a 
top priority for me. Senator Cardin, as we talked about earlier 
this week, I have a long track record of working on water 
affordability issues, because I really view affordability as 
the flip side of the coin of making infrastructure investments. 
What I saw working at a local water agency is we were always 
balancing affordability with the timing, phasing and sequencing 
of our infrastructure projects.
    We would absolutely work at the EPA Office of Water to 
design and quickly implement the affordability pilot program 
that is in the Water Infrastructure bill that this committee 
led the development of. I would draw on my experience, having 
helped communities around the country in the design of their 
water affordability programs. One of the things that I did when 
I was at the U.S. Water Alliance was to establish something 
called the Water Equity Network working with over 20 cities 
around the Country on these very issues.
    Finally, one of the things we have just started over the 
last month at the Office of Water is a Water Affordability 
Learning Exchange. What we are doing with that Learning 
Exchange is creating an informal, ad hoc mechanism for our 
team, the career leadership in the Office of Water, to 
regularly engage with equity and environmental justice 
organizations who are working on water affordability issues, 
the water associations that represent both rural and urban 
water utilities to really find lots and lots of common ground 
on water affordability.
    So you would have my absolute commitment, Senator Cardin. 
Thank you for the question.
    Senator Cardin. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Senator Inhofe. Mr. Chairman, a point of clarification. In 
my haste to try to get everything done, I didn't get around to 
the real question I was going to talk to you about, Ms. 
Freedhoff. I will do that for the record, OK?
    Ms. Freedhoff. Absolutely. Thank you.
    Senator Inhofe. You bet.
    Senator Kelly. Senator Cramer is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Senator Cramer. Thank you, Senator Kelly. Thank you to all 
of the witnesses for being here.
    Ms. Estenoz, I am from North Dakota. We are a big prairie 
pothole State, potholes and prairies everywhere. One of the 
reasons we have so many potholes and so many wetlands is 
because unlike many of the other prairie pothole region States, 
our farmers did not drain when everyone else was draining. 
Consequently, they have been punished for their good behavior 
on a regular basis by I am sure well-intentioned bureaucrats 
over the years.
    There are a number of programs, but one I have been the 
most frustrated with, that would be under your jurisdiction 
should be confirmed, of course, is the waterfall production 
areas. Those are these pre-1976 that fathers and grandfathers 
and grandparents signed in difficult times with unclear maps 
and not very good definitions.
    I brought an example of what I think has been a real abuse 
with the Fish and Wildlife Service. I have been very 
frustrated.
    There has been some work done that is beneficial like new 
mapping. It has been very delayed but it is getting better. The 
old maps are like on a napkin or an envelope drawn with a 
pencil. I am only exaggerating slightly. Of course, we have 
better technology today.
    But here is one of the frustrations I want to point to in 
this map. We have copies for you as well in case you don't get 
a good view of this. This is literally a picture of land I 
visited last year with the Director of the Fish and Wildlife 
Service. This is an area that has a water production area 
easement on it. One of the definitions for the easement from 
pre-1976, in some of the language of the grant easement, it 
says, ``protects large bodies of surface water including lakes 
and ponds.''
    Now, I am not a hydrologist. But I am pretty sure I can see 
where the lakes and ponds are. Can you see where there are 
lakes and ponds on this? Those would be wetlands in the 
easement.
    Now, here is the frustration. I am going to replace this 
picture with the map that came from the Fish and Wildlife 
Service identifying the wetlands for the easement contemporary. 
We are going to flip that up so we can get it in the right 
direction. In the upper right-hand corner is that same large 
lake. As you can see, it is not assessed any acres for the 
easement.
    Now, why would that be? Well, the reason for that, in my 
view, is because there is a cap of acres for the easement. 
Whoever decided that wasn't a wetland decided this .15 spot 
down there is a wetland. This dry spot of .14 acres is a 
wetland. This dry spot of .49 acres is a wetland. All added up, 
so that the dry land can be considered water for the easement 
and not attribute any of the real water to the easement. This 
is called taking. It has been a legal fact in my view, by the 
Fish and Wildlife Service.
    As I said, we have made some progress at least in the 
mapping side. And we think we have made some progress on the 
administrative side through an appeals process. Our farmers and 
landowners have gotten their new maps. Not all of them are done 
yet even though they were promised. This COVID thing happened 
and a lot of people did not work for a long time.
    At the same time, their appeals have fallen on deaf ears. 
Not a single substantive appeal has been granted, not one, 
including this, especially one that got to the--not a single 
director's appeal. Now, I am talking about the previous 
Administration.
    I am hopeful that you, if confirmed and the others in the 
Fish and Wildlife Service, the director, when that person is 
nominated and confirmed, will take the time to come out and 
hear frustrated farmers one more time who I will have to beg to 
get there because they have no faith that the government is 
going to look out for them.
    This is what helps get the 12 percent conservation folks. 
We have not even talked about WOTUS. We will do that later. But 
this is where it gets to 12 percent, is taking a bunch of dry 
land and calling it a wetland and ignoring the wetland. To get 
to 30, people would starve, because there wouldn't be enough 
cropland left. We have to take a realistic view of this. More 
important than that is the fact that farmers own this land. 
This is their land that is being taken.
    I know I have been out of commission for a couple weeks. I 
hope that you and I can get to know each other better. I would 
love to bring you up to speed on all this and would love to 
hear more.
    Ms. Estenoz. Senator, if I may, thank you for this. I do 
look forward to us getting to know one another and for the 
opportunity to dig into this issue.
    I do know and I am pleased to hear that you consider it to 
be a step in the right direction, that there is an appeals 
process that appears to be something that is working for the 
Fish and Wildlife Service. I think that is good.
    I obviously need to dig deeper and fully understand the 
parameters of how we are delineating what is a wetland. I have 
a lot of experience in wetlands being where I am from in south 
Florida. It is an area of both the law and science I am 
familiar with.
    I thank you for the images. This is very helpful. If I am 
confirmed, I pledge that I will be in close contact with you. 
If I heard an invitation to come out to North Dakota, I would 
very much like to take you up on that.
    Senator Cramer. But they are skating rinks in February, so 
we have to pick the time. It is very important when you come to 
North Dakota.
    With that, Mr. Chairman, there was a letter written to the 
Acting Director from a number of organizations from North 
Dakota. If you have not received it, we will make sure you get 
it. I would ask unanimous consent to place it into the record. 
Thank you.
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    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Senator.
    Joining via Webex is Senator Whitehouse, who is recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman Kelly.
    First, let me welcome Ms. Estenoz, Ms. Fox and Dr. 
Freedhoff. It is great to have you here in the committee with 
us even if we are just here electronically.
    For Ms. Fox and Dr. Freedhoff, I want to ask about the 
problem of science in the last Administration which was 
routinely ignored and even disparaged. That was done on a 
repeated, consistent, systematic basis. I think any notion that 
this was a coincidence or a fluke is living in a dream world.
    I know that Administrator Regan has pledged to take a look 
at all of that disparagement and violation of science. In the 
conversation we had, it was clear to me he was going to look at 
who, what, where, and when, but not at why things went wrong.
    I would encourage you, if you are confirmed, to make sure 
you are answering the question of why. Because if this was 
systematic, we need to know who was behind it.
    When January 6th happened, I pushed very hard on the 
Department of Justice to make sure they were not just 
challenging the people who came through the windows and doors 
of the Capitol but looking upstream to who might have been 
behind it, who might have been organizers or funders. I think 
you need to have the same conversation with your employees.
    My question to you is going to be one for the record 
because I want you to have the chance to sit down and answer it 
fully, and not under the pressure of my 5-minute limit.
    That is, what is going to happen when people come forward 
to disclose things that were done wrong at EPA in the past? Are 
they going to be told, we are not interested, go away, we are 
looking forward, not backward? Are they going to be told we are 
not really interested, but why don't you go down to that 
overworked inspector general? Maybe they will take an interest 
there.
    Are they going to be told, look, this really damaged an 
important agency. We are taking this seriously, and here is our 
system for dealing with your concerns. Here is who is going to 
hear you out, here is how we are going to coordinate the 
different stories we are hearing. Here is what our response 
plan is to the predicament we have been left with.
    I hope you can all answer that. I would appreciate very 
much if you gave that some time and attention and answer those 
questions for the record.
    Ms. Estenoz, welcome. I am delighted that you are here. I 
hope we can bring you up to Rhode Island to visit the park that 
is going in along the Blackstone River. It is a slightly 
unusual park because it is made up of lots of old historic 
mills and parts of the early industrial revolution which were 
joined together for power by the Blackstone River.
    Now, it is very unusually--it does not have borders like a 
lot of parks. It is like jewels strung along the string of the 
Blackstone River. I hope very much that you will come and see 
it and help us turn that into the facility that it really 
should be. It has just gotten started.
    I want to talk generally with you and put a flag up about 
the problem of waters and coasts being overlooked. I am 
thrilled that you are from the Everglades, so you know what a 
coast is. You know what salt water is. I think that is great.
    The Land and Water Conservation Fund, I have complained 
about for years for its upland bias. In fact, I am filing 
legislation to rename it the Upland and Freshwater Conservation 
Fund, so that any pretense that it treats coasts and salt water 
fairly is removed and we can set up a Coasts and Salt Water 
Conservation Fund that can, I hope, stand on its own and have 
the resources that upland and freshwater gets.
    The Army Corps of Engineers has a flood program that is 
just horrible for coasts compared to what it does for upland 
and inland. The Department of the Interior is named Interior so 
it is not exactly a coast facing agency.
    Our coasts are seeing unprecedented hazards from sea level 
rise, from warming of the seas, from upheaval in the biota in 
the fisheries, and from really catastrophic storm risk. Rhode 
Island is right in the target area for that. It is a very 
coastal, ocean State.
    I hope as you go about your responsibilities, you will make 
sure that this long tradition of overlooking oceans and coasts 
gets whittled back. We even saw it in the Biden infrastructure 
plan, which is extremely weak on everything having to do with 
oceans and coasts. It is like there is a missing section on 
oceans and coasts.
    I am going to be a persistent nag, I guess, of the Interior 
Department to pay more attention to oceans and coasts. I just 
wanted to lay the marker down right now, and if I have any time 
left, to ask you for a quick response.
    Ms. Estenoz. Yes, Senator, I am happy to respond to that. 
When you are born on an island, it is all coast. My husband and 
I have raised our family in Broward County, Florida, which 
regularly experiences now several times a year what we call 
sunny day flooding, which is essentially the ocean coming in 
and occupying our streets.
    The amount of work that needs to be done to build coastal 
resilience is really, and from the Interior Department, the 
equities that we have on the coasts are incredibly significant.
    If I am confirmed, coastal restoration and coastal 
resilience, these will be high priorities for me and in terms 
of the Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Park Service. 
An I look forward to visiting Rhode Island.
    Senator Whitehouse. We will be in touch a lot. I welcome 
you and thank you.
    Ms. Estenoz. Thank you.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Senator.
    Now joining us also via Webex is Senator Lummis who is 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Senator Lummis. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Estenoz, you have an impressive career. It is very nice 
to meet you by Zoom.
    I take note of a statement in your testimony where you 
said, ``As a State official, I was a customer of Fish and 
Wildlife Service's regulatory programs and know firsthand what 
it is like to be in the shoes of States trying to work with the 
Federal Government.'' In your view, what is the role of States 
in the context of the Endangered Species Act?
    Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator. Thank you for that 
question.
    I think the States play an absolutely central role when it 
comes to the Endangered Species Act, particularly when it comes 
to species recovery and management. What we want is to recover 
species. We want species not to need the protection of the 
Endangered Species Act.
    States have a tremendous amount of expertise on the ground 
in species management. It has been my experience in my own 
career that in the almost 25 years I was working in Florida, 
the State of Florida was our strongest partner. The Florida 
Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission was a tremendous 
partner there.
    I believe very strongly in partnerships with States and 
really leveraging the expertise that we have in States.
    Senator Lummis. I am delighted to hear you say that, 
because one of the great success stories of the Endangered 
Species Act since it was enacted is grizzly bears in the 
Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife 
Service, in the Bush administration, the Obama administration, 
and the Trump Administration all agreed that the Greater 
Yellowstone ecosystem grizzly bear population has recovered and 
should be delisted.
    Ms. Estenoz, do you believe we should keep species on the 
list that every scientist in the past three Administrations 
agrees should be delisted, has recovered and management handed 
back to the States?
    Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator. I believe when species 
meet the definition of delisting or down listing, then we 
should delist or down list. The Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem 
grizzly population is doing very, very well. The grizzly is 
listed as an entire lower 48 population.
    But I want to say something specifically if I may about 
predator recovery in particular. Species recovery is always 
challenging. But I want to recognize that there are special 
challenges when it comes to predator recovery, particularly for 
folks on the ground who find themselves sharing the landscape 
with a recovering predator species.
    It is really important for folks to feel supported, and 
listened to and that we have the right tools in the toolbox to 
help folks live and exist with a recovering predator species. 
State management and State expertise, as I said before, is 
absolutely essential to this approach.
    If I am confirmed, I will prioritize understanding and 
working closely with States to recover all species and in 
particular, predators.
    Senator Lummis. Thanks so very much.
    I am going to shift over to Ms. Freedhoff but if I get a 
chance, I will come back to you.
    My question is about chemicals that make benefits and 
marvels of modern life possible. According to the Department of 
Energy, more than 96 percent of all manufactured goods rely on 
chemicals. One of the duties of the Office of Chemical Safety 
and Pollution Prevention is to weigh the benefits and risks 
associated with chemicals.
    How do you intend to weigh those two things, both the 
benefits and the risks of chemicals, before your office?
    Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much for that question, Senator.
    You are absolutely right. Both of the laws that serve as 
the primary authority for the Office of Chemical Safety and 
Pollution Prevention require the EPA to consider costs and 
benefits and risks. For example, in TSCA, Congress actually 
gave EPA the authority to exempt uses of chemicals if that use 
is needed for an economically significant reason from our 
rules. If confirmed, I intend to follow the law.
    Senator Lummis. Thank you. Hopefully, I will get a chance 
in round two to visit with you again.
    Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you.
    Is Senator Markey here via Webex?
    [No response.]
    Senator Kelly. I will recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Fox, I want to get your thoughts on the Waters of the 
United States or WOTUS rule. As you know, in June 2015, the 
Obama administration finalized a new rule which expanded the 
scope of waters protected by the Clean Water Act.
    While I support efforts to reduce surface water 
contamination, the way the 2015 WOTUS rule was written did not 
work for Arizona and wound up defining irrigation ditches, dry 
riverbeds and washes as waters of the United States when there 
is no water.
    While these rules were repealed last year, I understand the 
EPA is considering reevaluating the WOTUS rules in the coming 
months. As Assistant Administrator for Water, how will you 
ensure the EPA takes into account the unique geographies of 
desert southwestern States like Arizona?
    Ms. Fox. Thank you for the question, Senator Kelly.
    I think the example you just provided from Arizona is why, 
if confirmed, I will do the work of the Office of Water based 
on the wisdom, the experience, the practical implementation of 
what these rules look like in communities around the Country.
    To your question of how is it that we will consider the 
very diverse ecosystems, the topography and geography when it 
relates to water, one of the things Administrator Regan has 
really directed us to do is to have robust stakeholder 
engagement around understanding both how 2015 was implemented 
and how the 2020 rule is currently being implemented.
    One of the things we plan to do is initiate listening 
sessions this summer. Then in the fall, what we have been 
talking with the Army Corps, who jointly developed the WOTUS 
rule, as you know, with EPA, that we will be doing regional 
roundtables. Really, Senator Kelly, the reason we want to do 
these regional roundtables is we recognize that when we create 
a national definition like Waters of the U.S., it looks 
different. I am still living in California, so I share the arid 
State concerns that you have in Arizona. It looks different 
there than it does in the Great Lakes or in the southeast.
    We will be having these regional conversations to really 
better understand the very concerns you have raised.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Ms. Fox. I look forward to 
helping us come up with a good list of stakeholders in the 
State of Arizona for the summer and fall.
    Dr. Freedhoff, I want to discuss, for our remaining time 
here, EPA regulatory actions with regard to semiconductor 
production in the United States.
    As you know, in January, the EPA issued five final rules 
under TSCA for certain chemicals that are persistent, 
bioaccumulative, and toxic. One rule was for phenol, phenol 
isopropylated phosphate 3:1, which is a chemical widely used in 
semiconductor manufacturing. After hearing belated concerns 
from industry, I appreciate that the EPA has reopened the 
comment period and provided a no action assurance and hope that 
semiconductor producers fully take advantage of this additional 
time to help shape the final rule.
    As the Senate prepares to consider efforts to promote 
additional semiconductor manufacturing in the U.S., has EPA 
engaged with the Department of Commerce to discuss ways to 
provide regulatory stability under TSCA for the semiconductor 
industry?
    Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much for that question, Senator. 
I appreciated talking to you about that issue when we met 
privately.
    As you pointed out, those five rules were finalized by the 
last Administration. Honestly, the last Administration, from a 
process perspective, did nothing wrong when it finalized those 
rules because they asked for public comment, they reached out 
to stakeholders and really tried very hard to get the input of 
the regulated companies that would be subject to it.
    As you said, when we started hearing from your constituents 
and many, many other companies across the Country with their 
concerns, that they hadn't really realized the implications of 
these rules on their business, we did take quick action to give 
them some more time and flexibility to give us the information 
we need. We really do encourage them and other industry sectors 
to bring us that information, because I know the EPA career 
staff wants to address all of the valid concerns that have been 
raised about those rules.
    In terms of what you are asking about interagency 
coordination, there is actually a TSCA Interagency Coordinating 
Group. That group consists of representatives from many 
different agencies, including the Department of Commerce, the 
Department of Defense, NASA, the Small Business Administration, 
and many others as well. Our career scientists meet with them 
on a regular basis. I think it is more frequently than once a 
month. Sometimes it is weekly, depending on what we are doing. 
We do that because we really have a strong interest in 
understanding what other agencies feel their needs are as we 
move forward with regulatory actions.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Dr. Freedhoff. My time is 
expired.
    I will now recognize Senator Ernst for 5 minutes.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you very much. I welcome our witnesses 
here today, and look forward to our discussion.
    Ms. Fox, I will start with you, please. I am going to take 
what Senator Kelly was talking about, with the 2015 WOTUS Rule, 
and just add a little bit to that. Because as you see, there is 
a bipartisan disagreement with the 2015 rule that was put into 
place.
    I adamantly was opposed to what we saw under the Obama 
administration in 2015. It was very damaging to the State of 
Iowa. What we saw with that rule and the way it was defined, 
those new Waters of the U.S. then allowed the Federal 
Government, or would have allowed the Federal Government to 
regulate 97 percent of Iowa's land. Not just water, but land.
    So I know that we talked about stakeholders, and I am 
really glad to hear you say that. Because many of my 
constituents felt that their concerns were ignored during the 
2015 WOTUS rulemaking process. And in 2014, the Obama 
administration's very own SBA Office of Advocacy submitted 
comments to the EPA and Army Corps of Engineers, arguing that 
the agencies hadn't conformed to the Regulatory Flexibility 
Act's requirements that small business concerns be considered.
    So you have mentioned you want to bring stakeholders to the 
table. What will you do specifically to ensure that the 
concerns of all of these impacted stakeholders, especially as 
you look at States across the Midwest, maybe in California, 
those that are in agriculture, those concerns are addressed in 
the event that a new definition is proposed?
    Ms. Fox. Thank you for the question, Senator. One thing I 
will say is that in my former role as the CEO of the U.S. Water 
Alliance, I had the opportunity to send quite a lot of time in 
Iowa. We had our One Water Summit every year, and Iowa brought 
the biggest delegation of farmers and water utilities and 
business leaders.
    When I hosted something called the One Water for American 
listening sessions, we went to Iowa to hear about really the 
tremendous innovation that is happening on both water quality 
and farm profitability, because we saw municipalities and 
farmers working upstream, downstream. In fact, last year, 
during my final year at the U.S. Water Alliance, we awarded the 
Iowa Soybean Association the U.S. Water Prize because I truly 
believe that it is through collaboration and partnership that 
we will get the work of protecting our Nation's waters and 
protecting our agricultural productivity at the same time.
    So what I commit to, if confirmed, is, I want us to find an 
enduring definition of Waters of the U.S. That is what 
Administrator Regan wants. We don't want to see this ping-pong 
any more. For our career staff at EPA, they have written three 
rules in 6 years. That seems crazy to me.
    So what we are very committed to, Administrator Regan and 
I, is to understand the implementation challenges of both rules 
in communities around the Country and to work with folks like 
you, your constituents, to get to something that is enduring. 
We would love to have a definition that does not shift as 
administrations shift. I would love to have the opportunity to 
work very closely with you to make that happen, if confirmed.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I do hope 
that we can move on to a definition that would be enduring. I 
think absolutely you are correct there. But we have a lot of 
different States with a lot of different needs. The nexus 
really does have to be water, not a bunch of land surrounding 
an intermittent stream, or whatever it might be. But it needs 
to be about water.
    So I do have a question about WOTUS and the 30 by 30. I am 
not sure what agency is actually going to be in charge of the 
30 by 30 rule that is being proposed by President Biden. Is 
that the EPA, is it USDA? Do you happen to know?
    Ms. Fox. I can find out and get back to you.
    Senator Ernst. OK. Because this plan has been proposed, but 
nobody really knows who is going to administer this, and we 
have no idea how we arrive at putting 30 percent of America's 
lands in a protected status. I talked to Secretary Vilsack, we 
had an informal question session with him a few weeks ago. He 
told my senior Senator, Chuck Grassley, oh, we are going to get 
this done by using CRP. Well, I don't see how that works. CRP 
is for vulnerable lands. Not every State farms. So I am not 
sure. I guess maybe he just wants to take it away from those of 
us that farm.
    Does the Biden Administration plan to use----
    Senator Carper.
    [Presiding] Senator, your time is expired. Go ahead and ask 
this question but then we will have to go to Senator Padilla.
    Senator Ernst. OK, thank you, Mr. Chair. So we will take 
this for the record. But we just want to know about the 
definition of WOTUS and how it ties into the 30 by 30. Because 
what we are concerned about in Iowa is that the Federal 
Government starts using expanded definitions and rules that 
then to take away land, productive land from farmers, and put 
it in a protected status, we do not want to see that. I think 
that is Federal Government overreach. I will send the question 
to you and we will do it for the record.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Would you like to respond just briefly to 
that question? Maybe you can do more in writing later on, but 
anything you want to say right now, you are welcome to.
    Ms. Fox. I am happy to answer that question for the record. 
But I think, Senator Ernst, one thing that is going to guide 
the work of the Office of Water if confirmed is we have to 
balance all of these interests of water quality, ensuring the 
profitability of our farmers who feed the Nation, they feed the 
world.
    So we have to balance those things. What you can count on 
me if confirmed as the AA for Water is that I will always 
listen to your constituents, I will hear them out. And as I 
make decisions, I will always look back with you and them. I 
really think that through partnership, through collaboration 
and through really transparent decisionmaking, that is what is 
going to be best for the people of this Country. You have my 
commitment on that.
    Senator Ernst. Yes, thank you. And I appreciate the 
commitment.
    Senator Carper. Senator Ernst, sometimes I ask people who 
have been married a long time, what is the secret to being 
married a long time. As you might imagine, I get hilarious 
answers, and I actually write them down and use them from time 
to time for comic relief. One of my favorite answers, though, 
is communicate and compromise. Communicate and compromise. That 
is also the secret to a vibrant democracy. I would add a third 
C, and that would be collaboration. Communicate, compromise, 
collaboration. I think that is what we are hearing both of you 
talk about today. I welcome that. Thanks for joining us.
    All right, Dr. Padilla, Dr. Senator Padilla, I know you are 
out there somewhere. You are recognized next. And if we don't 
have anybody else intervene, then Senator Cramer would be after 
you. Senator Padilla, please.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. For the record, I am 
not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV.
    I have a couple of questions and topics I would like to 
raise with Ms. Estenoz regarding the National Park System. We 
know it is a source of pride for so many Americans. Our 
national parks boast not just stunning scenery and our national 
monuments and historical parks, but it helps tell the story of 
our Country.
    However, the stories told by our park system don't 
completely paint the full mosaic of America, nor does it 
adequately preserve the full culture and legacy of all 
Americans. We have a lot of work to do to diversify our 
national parks and monuments. Too few sites focus on the 
experience of the Black, Asian, and Native Americans, or teach 
us about our Latino heritage. And we don't have enough parks 
and monuments proudly dedicated to the contributions of the 
LGBTQ community and not nearly enough sites that celebrate the 
contributions of women to our Nation's history.
    I wonder if you can talk for a minute about how you would 
work with the Biden Administration to ensure that the National 
Park Service sites better tell America's rich and diverse 
history?
    Ms. Estenoz. Thank you so much, Senator, for that question. 
This is an incredibly important priority for the Administration 
and for the Secretary.
    The National Park Service, in many ways, is our 
government's preeminent experts on the power of place and how 
important places can be in our effort to tell a story. You are 
right, I agree 100 percent, as does the Secretary, that the 
range of stories that we tell isn't broad enough. It doesn't 
tell the full, rich story of America. And it is an absolutely 
high priority for us to fix that problem, and to think of our 
national park sites, which some of them are parks, but they are 
also historic and scenic trails. We have historic sites, we 
have national seashores. There are a rich diversity of stories 
to be told at most of those sites.
    So if I am confirmed, this will be a top priority for me, 
it is a top priority for the Secretary. This includes telling 
the rich story of our indigenous communities, and revitalizing 
our commitment to telling the stories of tribal nations and 
involving them in weaving those stories and sharing them with 
visitors to our national park sites. I very much appreciate the 
question.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you. I look forward to working with 
you and the Administration on that in the years ahead.
    Next question is a topic that was raised earlier about 
access to outdoor spaces. I want to dig a little bit deeper. As 
you know, too many children, especially in communities of 
color, grow up without access to outdoor spaces. Nationwide, 
three-quarters of people of color live in nature-deprived 
communities.
    Los Angeles County, not just my home State, but my home 
county, is one of the most densely populated regions in the 
Country. It has one of the lowest rates of park access. It has 
3.3 acres of park space per 1,000 residents, half as much as 
other high-density areas.
    The COVID pandemic has showed us how important access to 
outdoors is, and that our local parks can bring just as many 
mental and physical and educational benefits to residents as a 
national park. So I want to thank you for your work in helping 
to rescind President Trump's Secretarial Order 3388 and 
reinstating funding for the Outdoor Recreation Legacy 
Partnership Program, which helps fund the parks for urban 
communities. I would encourage the Administration to go big and 
include a robust funding request for this program in the next 
Fiscal Year budget.
    Again, I know it was brought up earlier in the hearing, but 
if you want to speak for a few more minutes on how you would 
approach the work to ensure more urban communities in 
particular can access quality green spaces.
    Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator. Again, this is a part of a 
similar issue. Equal access to nature, the year that we have 
been through as a Nation is perfect evidence of how important 
it is for folks to have access to outdoor spaces. So many 
Americans this year have taken refuge in the parks in their 
neighborhoods and their communities. For folk who don't have 
access to those areas, it has been that much harder to cope 
with the year that we have lived through.
    As I mentioned earlier, we just 2 days ago announced $150 
million investment in the ORLP program. This is the largest 
investment. It is a competitive grant program. One of the 
things that is a high priority for us is to ensure that 
communities have the opportunity to actually compete for those 
dollars.
    So we are working hard internally to ensure that we are 
promoting the program, that we are offering our technical 
assistance to folks who want to try to participate in that 
program. Now that the Congress has invested in full funding of 
the LWCF, that is an absolute game changer for communities who 
need and deserve greater access to the outdoors in their lives 
and in their communities.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you for that. Again, I look forward 
to working with you on this in the years ahead.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Senator Carper. Senator Padilla, thanks so much for joining 
us today, and for those questions.
    Senator Cramer is back for a second round. I think Senator 
Markey is trying to join us. The vote starts in the Senate, we 
have two votes, they are going to start the first one in about 
three or 4 minutes. But we have some time.
    Senator Cramer.
    Senator Cramer. Thanks you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks again to 
all of you.
    Ms. Fox, as I mentioned during the first round, I wanted to 
get to WOTUS. You have answered a lot of WOTUS questions since 
I have been here, and you have done very well with them. So I 
am just going to add my illustration and ask some pretty simple 
questions.
    Last Congress, in this committee we did hold a hearing on 
the Trump WOTUS rule. One of the witnesses was the North Dakota 
Commissioner of Agriculture, Doug Goehring. Doug testified, 
``The most fundamental management practice in agriculture is 
effective water management, either to retain, conserve, or 
convey. An overly rigid, one size fits all Federal intervention 
and regulatory oversight is not reasonable, not workable and 
not appropriate.''
    Now, Administrator Regan, whose nomination I supported in 
this committee, and on the floor, has said the EPA is going to 
rewrite the regulation again, but not as the Obama 
administration did in 2015. You have echoed that sentiment a 
couple of times. I like consistency within an Administration, 
Mr. Chairman.
    North Dakota successfully litigated against the 2015 
regulation, which would have laid claim to over 80 percent of 
our land mass with its 4,000-foot buffer. In 2006, if we are 
looking for a definition, I think Justice Scalia got it exactly 
right in his majority opinion when he set the standard for 
continuous surface water connection to relatively permanent 
bodies of water. There was a little vagueness in a few of those 
words, but nevertheless, I think it is a pretty good starting 
point.
    So with that in mind, I want to refer to this map of North 
Dakota, just to help people understand. We literally are, 
people always say they are something, we really are the center 
of the North American continent. There is a monument in Rugby, 
North Dakota, that says, this is the center of the North 
American continent.
    We are prairies, we are badlands. Theodore Roosevelt 
National Park, the only national park named after a person, 
place matters, right? This is where his ranches are. Right out 
here in the badlands, limestone, sandstone, cactus, badlands.
    This map illustrates what would fall under Waters of the 
U.S. definition of navigable waters. Now, I have a pontoon, I 
live on a bay of the Missouri River. If I can't drive my 
pontoon on it, I know it is not navigable, right? But this is a 
whole bunch of stuff that you couldn't drive a pontoon on.
    So anyway, obviously WOTUS is at the heart of agriculture, 
as you have been hearing from others. It is very near and dear 
to North Dakotans. We want to get it right.
    So I am just going to ask you some really basic things. 
First of all, and I think you testified to this. But they 
didn't get it right in 2015. Do you think they got it right in 
2015?
    Ms. Fox. Senator, it sounds like, first of all, that 
Shannon and I need to do a joint trip together so that we can 
understand the two very original challenges. So maybe we can do 
that.
    Senator Cramer. That would be fun, yes. The Administrator 
promised to do it too, but you can either come with him or at 
another time.
    Ms. Fox. Senator Cramer, again, we all want an enduring 
rule. I think we want an enduring definition that is national, 
but really can address the particular local circumstances of 
water. As we know, water is also changing rapidly, the Great 
Lakes are warming, parts of California and Arizona are drying 
very rapidly.
    So how do we create a rule that can withstand the test of 
time and respect the local needs? That is really what 
Administrator Regan wants, that is what he has directed me to 
do, that is what I want to do. I want to get it right, and I 
want to get it right with all of you.
    So I hope you will help us with that.
    Senator Cramer. You raise a really good point. Both you and 
the Administrator I think bring some very valuable experience. 
He as a State regulator, you as somebody who has been in a 
regulated industry, although not agriculture, but again, WOTUS 
was clearly important.
    That is what gives me hope, as well as your willingness to 
talk, to collaborate, to communicate. We have lots of Cs that 
work: Carper, Capito, Cardin, Cramer, there are lots of C words 
that work.
    Ms. Fox. And Cramer.
    Senator Cramer. And Cramer. So I look forward to that. I 
really do. I am an eternally optimistic person, Mr. Chairman.
    So you are invited, you are welcome. You can leave the 
Administrator at home or bring him with you if you want, but he 
is coming at some point. You raised an important point, and 
this would have been relevant to the previous discussion, that 
changing, that has been going on for centuries. That is part of 
why North Dakota farmers didn't drain. They moved with the 
water. They farmed when it was dry, if it was wet over here, 
then the next year they farmed over here, because they valued 
having that water around them. They were naturally 
conservationists. But they reject the notion that the Federal 
Government is going to tell them how to do it if not a partner.
    With that, thank you both. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Thank you, Dr. Cramer.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Carper. We can never have too many Cs.
    There is a good spirit here. I hope this is a good spirit 
that we can continue to embrace as we go forward and address 
some thorny issues and really important issues for all 
different parts of our Country.
    I would like to come back to you, Ms. Estenoz. I have a 
question. And I think senator Markey is trying to get here. I 
won't stretch it out too long, but we will make sure he has a 
chance at a second shot here.
    Ms. Estenoz, our committee has spent considerable time in 
recent years, I have been on this committee for 20 years, I 
love this committee. I feel so fortunate to serve on it.
    In recent years we have deliberated matters involving the 
Endangered Species Act. While the Endangered Species Act is one 
of our Nation's most popular and successful environmental laws, 
it is not without controversy, as you know. That said, I 
believe we can all agree more than we disagree when it comes to 
preserving and when it comes to implementing this bedrock law.
    My question, Ms. Estenoz, is, is in your opinion, how can 
the Department of Interior best foster collaboration, one of 
those Cs, versus conflict, another C, when it comes to the 
Endangered Species Act?
    Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that question. I 
think it is such an important one. Because we have talked a 
little bit with some of the other questions and some of the 
other discussion earlier about how important recovery is in the 
Endangered Species Act, as an ultimate driver of what we want 
to try to do. There is a whole movement regarding conservation 
without conflict, and moving past conflict to cooperation and 
collaboration, just to keep the C theme going here. In my 
experience in Florida, that is when we have gotten the most 
done, even when we are dealing with listed species, even when 
we are dealing with species that are on the brink.
    And we have a couple, we have a couple in Florida. We have 
many, too many, in our Country. We have some 12,000 species 
that need conservation assistance to avoid extinction. That is 
too many.
    I think everyone would think that is too many. I don't 
think that is a particularly controversial statement.
    We are not going to recover those species or improvement 
their conservation status unless we can work together. As I 
said earlier, some of the strongest expertise when it comes to 
specific species management, it is on the ground, it is the 
folks who are closest to those species, and it is incumbent 
upon Fish and Wildlife Service.
    Frankly, I think we do a good job integrating our work, 
particularly through, for example, the Association of Fish and 
Wildlife Agencies throughout the Country. There are 
tremendously strong relationships among the people on the 
ground there. It is really great to watch. We need to empower 
those relationships and those partnerships.
    If I am confirmed, it will be my job to support them and to 
encourage that collaboration and if I am confirmed, I will 
pledge to do just that.
    Senator Carper. All right.
    As we wait for Senator Markey, I want each of you to take a 
minute and talk to us about your top priorities, one or two top 
priorities. We have heard from you about some of the pressing 
issues that face our Nation and the roles that you will be 
playing. But I would like to, before we finish up, to get your 
perspective on some additional matters that you expect to 
address once you take office. Just mention for us briefly a 
couple of your top priorities.
    Dr. Freedhoff, I am going to ask you to start out. Just 
talk about some of your top priorities briefly.
    Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman. I would say 
No. 1 is really implementing TSCA and recognizing that when 
that law was enacted, everyone, environmental organizations, 
industry groups, Republicans, Democrats, everyone wanted EPA to 
have the authority that it needed to protect families and 
workers all across this Country from unsafe chemicals. So 
getting that program off the ground and starting to write some 
of those protected chemical safety rules is one of my first 
priorities.
    Second, I would say it is about trust. I think in the past 
4 years, there was a lot of fantastic science that went on in 
the agency, but there were also some examples of times when the 
scientists were told to change their conclusions or exclude 
data or when people raised concerns were kicked out of meetings 
and told that they couldn't work on those things anymore. I 
think as a result, some of those decisions, again, not 
everything that happened in the last 4 years, but as a result 
of some of those decisions, when EPA says that a chemical or a 
pesticide can be used safely, sometimes people don't trust us.
    I think the public needs to trust us. That is not just good 
for the environment and for human health, I think it is also 
really important that the public has confidence in the products 
that companies make. And when we say the chemicals that they 
use are safe, they really are.
    So I think working to restore trust in what the agency says 
about the safety of chemicals and pesticides is one of my other 
top priorities that I hope to work on if confirmed.
    Senator Carper. Thank you for that, very much.
    Your daughters are sitting behind you over you left 
shoulder. The former chairman of this committee was a fellow 
from Wyoming, John Barrasso. He still serves in the Senate, but 
not in this committee. He and I love music, and we used to like 
to interplay musical lyrics when appropriate with the comments 
that we make from the dais.
    One of the songs we liked to quote was by a one-hit wonder 
named Thomas Dolby, She Blinded Me With Science. Some of you 
may remember that song, a great song. We don't need to be 
blinded by science; we need to be guided by science. I think we 
have in the witnesses here before us today adherence to that 
principles. I like to think we have on this committee and in 
the new Administration a real strong desire to be guided by 
science. Thank you for that.
    Top priority, Ms. Fox, please.
    Ms. Fox. Thank you, Senator. I had a chance to talk a 
little bit earlier about some of the priorities around 
implementing our infrastructure programs well, PFAS, 
affordability. I want to add a couple. One is, and to really 
build on Lee Howell's point, and this is something that talk 
about quite often, is really the tremendous career staff that 
exists across all of the offices at EPA.
    I think one of my internal priorities is really around 
supporting them, building their morale. We have a big agenda 
when it comes to water. They have decades and decades of 
experience. So that will be a big internal priority.
    Another internal priority that I have if confirmed goes 
back to what Senator Whitehouse said earlier around science. 
One of the first things that I did was meet with our scientific 
integrity official. I got briefed on concerns that had been 
raised around scientific integrity over the previous 
administration. I issued a memo to the entire Office of Water 
to say, if there are every concerns around scientific integrity 
there will always be an open door policy.
    So I think in addition to pursuing the big water agenda 
that President Biden and Vice President Harris has laid out for 
us to also do the internal work, so that we have a strong, 
productive work force that is value and respected for all of 
their contributions. That would be another big priority of 
mine.
    Senator Carper. All right. Thank you, Ms. Fox.
    Ms. Estenoz.
    Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    My priorities roughly fall into three categories. Sticking 
with our alliteration theme, they are policy, program, and 
people. I too am a music fan, and Stephen Stills is very 
important to me.
    Senator Carper. Something's Happening Here.
    Ms. Estenoz. Something is happening here, indeed. So my 
policy priorities are the President's and the Secretary's 
policy priorities. So if I am confirmed, my job will be to help 
the National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service 
contribute to our efforts to tackle climate change, our efforts 
to increase equal access to nature, to tell all of America's 
stories, to recommit ourselves to our government-to-government 
trust responsibility to tribes, and to build back better by 
investing in our infrastructure and our public lands, our 
coastal resilience, so many of the issues that we have heard 
today.
    Programmatically, I think right off the bat my priority is 
going to be the implementation of the Great American Outdoors 
Act and the fully funded Land and Water Conservation Fund, a 
huge responsibility.
    Senator Carper. That should be a lot of fun.
    Ms. Estenoz. I am already having fun and looking forward to 
more. The commitment that the Congress made last year, I and so 
many Americans are so grateful for it. It is really now our job 
to make sure that we squeeze every ounce of value out of every 
single dollar and we get it on the landscape, working for the 
American people.
    Speaking of people, my other priority is supporting our 
career work force. Our people have had a rough year, just like 
every other American has had a rough year. The National Park 
Service is facing what could be one of the busiest summers for 
our national parks and national wildlife refuges in the history 
of those services.
    So part of my priority will be to ensure that they feel 
supported and that they have the tools that they need to 
welcome America back to our public lands over the next year, as 
we come out of this COVID crisis and take refuge in the 
beautiful places that the services that I have the pleasure of 
working with are responsible for. So thank you so much for the 
question, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Senator Markey I am told is on his way. I 
don't want to disappoint him by leaving him an empty room. 
Hopefully, he will make it soon.
    While we are waiting for another minute or two, there is 
question I like to ask sometime when we have time. Is there a 
question you wish you would have been asked that you have not 
been asked by anyone on this panel? We will start with Dr. 
Freedhoff, is there a question you wish you had been asked, but 
you didn't get it?
    Ms. Freedhoff. I am sorry, Senator, you wanted to know what 
question----
    Senator Carper. Yes, what is a question you would like to 
have been asked that no one has asked you?
    Ms. Freedhoff. I would like to have been asked how the 
agency responded to COVID. The reason for that is because my 
part of the agency literally dropped everything in order to 
respond to the virus. About 100 of our career scientists 
stopped what they were doing and focused all their efforts onto 
approving about 550 different disinfectants that were certified 
as effective against COVID, and also helped support the 
agency's efforts to crack down on fraudulent claims made by 
companies about COVID products.
    They really rose to the challenge and met it. It was very 
important for both the Country and the agency that they did so.
    Senator Carper. Thank you. Next time, we will ask that 
question. Senator Markey has joined us. Senator.
    Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I apologize to 
you.
    Senator Carper. Glad you could make it.
    Senator Markey. We are still in the midst of the Commerce 
Committee markup. We used to say in Boston, Wednesdays are 
Prince Spaghetti Day. Now we just say, Wednesday is a day when 
every committee meets simultaneously. And you can be 
omniscient, but you cannot be ubiquitous. So I apologize to you 
for not being here.
    Dr. Freedhoff, back in 2016, you worked with me on the 
issue of PCBs which contaminate as many as 25,000 schools 
across the Country despite being banned by the EPA in 1979. 
Students should be learning their ABCs, not their PCBs. That is 
still a situation in the Country right now.
    So I am planning on reintroducing the Get Toxic Substances 
Out of Schools Act, which would reauthorize and expand Title 5 
of TSCA to help schools remove PCBs and other toxic substances. 
Are you going to be working on that issue? I would love to 
partner with you in moving legislation that could give you more 
power to deal with that issue.
    Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much, Senator Markey. I 
appreciated talking to you about this as well, earlier in the 
week. It is funny, one of the first calls that I had with our 
acting regional administrators, it was just an opportunity to 
get to know them all. More than half of them, I would say, from 
all across the Country, raised this very issue with me. Because 
you are absolutely right, it is not just PCBs, it is asbestos 
and it is other toxic substances as well.
    The challenge that they really face is that as these 
schools age, the PCBs and the asbestos are released, and 
actually have in the past exposed both teachers and students. A 
lot of time also these schools are in economically and 
otherwise underserved communities that are also at risk of 
other environmental exposures in dipropionate ways compared to 
other communities.
    So I think there is great interest at the agency in working 
with you on this. I look forward to it.
    Senator Markey. Thank you. I appreciate it.
    And you know, there is kind of a way of looking at these 
environmental issues which says, oh, my goodness, they are so 
expensive, they are going to create real problems in our 
society if we really try to remediate it. But the other side of 
the coin is, it is a job creator for construction, painting, 
and other occupations that will have to go in and do this work.
    Can you talk about that a little bit?
    Ms. Freedhoff. Yes, I think you are absolutely right, 
Senator, to raise that. I would add additionally on that, a lot 
of State budgets are probably pretty challenged because of what 
they have gone through in the past year on COVID. I actually 
think that a lot of schools that might have been otherwise 
slated for remodeling or reconstruction are going to have to 
wait a lot longer, because of the challenges to State budgets.
    So I sort of see it as a win-win-win. It is a win for the 
environment, it is a win for jobs, and it is a win for the 
children and the teachers who are in those schools every day.
    Senator Markey. Yes. I thank you for that.
    In terms of using this funding that is going to be at the 
EPA and under your leadership to quickly evaluate dangerous 
chemicals, you may have already answered the question, but 
could you talk about that, how you are going to try to 
telescope the timeframe to deal with these issues under the 
constraints that exist statutorily?
    Dr. Freedhoff. I think that was one of the provisions that 
you cared the most about, as I recall, is making sure that the 
chemicals that EPA already knew they had concerns about were 
moved along at a faster timeframe. So what we are doing right 
now is we are taking sort of a forensic look back at the first 
10 risk evaluations that were completed in the last 
Administration. Our objective is to move as many of them as 
possible into rulemaking as quickly as we can.
    There may be times when we have to supplement some of them 
in order to make sure that the rules that flow from them are as 
protective and legally defensible as they need to be. But 
really, our focus is on giving Americans the chemical safety 
protections that everyone expected EPA to provide.
    Senator Markey. So as you are looking back at the previous 
Administration, there are flaws in the methodology which was 
used by the preceding Administration. And of course, our goal 
is to make sure that families are not exposed to asbestos, are 
not exposed to other dangerous chemicals. So how are we going 
to fix those flawed chemical risk evaluations completed by the 
previous Administration to ensure that they account for legacy 
exposures and use the best available science?
    Ms. Freedhoff. Well, the court, on legacy exposures there 
was actually a court decision telling the agency that the law 
clearly expected the agency to consider legacy exposures. That 
was about the asbestos risk evaluation, and the agency is 
certainly going to abide by that court decision.
    But more generally, I think the expectation in TSCA was the 
EPA would study the chemicals comprehensively. That means 
knowing whether people are getting exposed from the air, from 
the water, from the disposal of those chemicals.
    So what we are doing now is we are going through those 
first 10 pretty intensively. But we also recognize that the 
point of TSCA was to write chemical safety rules that were 
protective. So what we want to do is move past the risk 
evaluation phase and into the protection phase of our activity 
just as quickly as we can.
    Senator Markey. So when I entered Congress, I had Chelsea, 
which was the poorest and most vulnerable community in New 
England, had huge exposure to lead. That was like the first 
project that I worked on, again, poorest community in New 
England. We saw during the Coronavirus pandemic that Chelsea 
has extremely high asthma rates, and as a result, it made them 
more vulnerable to the Coronavirus.
    When we were working together on Woburn and the toxic site 
in Woburn, that goes back to the 1970's when the EPA and other 
agencies were just turning a blind eye, which ultimately led to 
the creation of the Superfund law, which I was proud to be a 
part of in 1981, in getting that law on the books.
    Senator Carper. Senator Markey, your time is expired. We 
will run into overtime and we are running out of time on the 
floor. So if you want to wrap it up really quickly.
    Senator Markey. I will wrap up quickly. Environmental 
justice, Dr. Freedhoff, how can we ensure that it is built into 
every single part of the activities taken by this 
Administration?
    Ms. Freedhoff. I appreciate the question. You know what? 
Congress told us to study potentially exposed and susceptible 
subpopulations. We have to consider those subpopulations every 
time we study a chemical. I do think we could be doing more 
with that authority than has been done in the past 
Administration.
    I think one thing we are really focused on now with those 
first 10 is really looking at whether there are fence-line 
communities, communities that have been disproportionately 
exposed to pollution from chemical companies and other things, 
and seeing whether there is more that we need to do to 
supplement those risk evaluations as we move to rulemaking.
    Senator Markey. You are going to do a great job. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Senator Markey, I would ask you just to 
stay in the room for another minute before you go, and I will 
go with you.
    Let me just close by saying how pleased I am, in talking to 
my colleagues as they come and go. Almost without exception the 
comments are just, you have really won the hearts of your moms 
and dads and maybe even your daughters. Very, very good job. We 
have been fortunate to hear from three outstanding nominees for 
critical roles in the Environmental Protection Agency in the 
Department of Interior. You are experienced, you are 
intelligent, and you are committed public servants.
    I want to close by thanking you all once again for your 
willingness to share your wisdom, your expertise, and inclusive 
instincts with our Nation. And 3 days after Mother's Day, our 
thanks to the moms that brought you into the room, and maybe 
your dads and husbands might be sharing you with us, your 
children, sharing you with all of us.
    I would like to ask unanimous consent to submit for the 
record a variety of materials, including letters from 
stakeholders and other materials that relate to today's 
nomination hearing. Without objection.
    [The referenced information follows:]
    
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    Senator Carper. Senators will be allowed to submit 
questions for the record through close of business on Friday, 
this Friday, May 14th. We will compile those questions, send 
them to our witnesses, and ask our witnesses to reply to us by 
Wednesday, May the 19th. If you could do that, that would be 
very helpful.
    With that, it is a wrap. We thank you all again. The 
hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:23 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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