[Senate Hearing 117-41]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-41
HEARING ON THE NOMINATIONS OF SHANNON ESTENOZ TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY
OF FISH AND WILDLIFE AND PARKS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR, RADHIKA
FOX TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR FOR WATER OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTION AGENCY, AND MICHAL FREEDHOFF TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR
FOR CHEMICAL SAFETY AND POLLUTION PREVENTION OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTION AGENCY
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
MAY 12, 2021
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
45-118 PDF WASHINGTON : 2022
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COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont Virginia
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island Ranking Member
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama
MARK KELLY, Arizona JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
ALEX PADILLA, California ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
JONI ERNST, Iowa
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
Mary Frances Repko, Democratic Staff Director
Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
MAY 12, 2021
OPENING STATEMENTS
Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware.. 1
Capito, Hon. Shelly More, U.S. Senator from the State of West
Virginia....................................................... 4
WITNESSES
Estenoz,Shannon, Nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Fish and
Wildlife and Parks of The Department of Interior............... 8
Prepared statement........................................... 11
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Kelly............................................ 14
Senator Capito........................................... 16
Senator Boozman.......................................... 22
Senator Wicker........................................... 22
Fox, Radhika, Nominee to be Assistant Administrator for Water of
the Environmental Protection Agency............................ 25
Prepared statement............................................... 27
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Kelly............................................ 30
Senator Capito........................................... 32
Senator Sullivan......................................... 36
Senator Ernst............................................ 37
Freedhoff, Michal, Nominee to be Assistant Administrator for
Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention of the Environmental
Protection Agency.............................................. 38
Prepared statement........................................... 40
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Kelly............................................ 43
Senator Capito........................................... 44
Senator Inhofe........................................... 51
Senator Cramer........................................... 53
Senator Lummis........................................... 55
Senator Boozman.......................................... 56
Senator Wicker........................................... 62
Senator Ernst............................................ 63
ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
Letter from the office of Chemical Safety and Polution........... 69
Letters of Support for Radhadi Fox from Waterkeepers Chesapeake,
Moonshot Missions, and South Easterners Royal Community
Assistance Project............................................. 74
Letter to Acting Director from a number of organizations from
North Dakota................................................... 82
Article from Florida Phoenix to Shannon Estenoz.................. 110
Letters of support of the nomination of Shannon Estenoz:
43 undersigned organizations................................. 119
Captains for Clean Water..................................... 121
The National Park Hospitality Association.................... 123
The National Audubon Society................................. 124
Bonefish and Tarpon Trust (BTT).............................. 125
Hunters, anglers, outdoor enthusiasts, and land stewards..... 127
National Parks Conservation Association (NPCA)............... 129
Outdoor Recreation Roundtable (ORR).......................... 131
Senator Marco Rubio.......................................... 133
The Corps Network............................................ 134
Letters of support of the nomination of Radhika Fox:
Association of Equipment Manufacturers (AEM)................. 135
Alexandria RENEW Enterprise.................................. 136
American Flood Coalition..................................... 137
American Water Works Association............................. 138
American Water Works Association Rocky Mountain Section...... 139
American Water Works Associatioin California-Nevada Section.. 140
Association of Regional Water Organizations.................. 141
Black & Veatch Corporation................................... 142
Bowman Environmental Consulting.............................. 143
Chamber of Commerce of the United States of America.......... 144
Children's Environmental Health Network...................... 145
Nav Otal, Utilities Director, City of Believue............... 146
Clean Water Action........................................... 148
Undersigned members and partners of the Clean Water for All
Coalition.................................................. 149
Mount Pleasant Waterworks Clean Water........................ 151
Columbia Riverkeeper......................................... 152
Community Water Center....................................... 154
Cooper Ferry Partnership..................................... 156
Coosa Riverkeeper............................................ 157
Community Water Systems Alliance (CWSA)...................... 158
Dietel & Partners............................................ 159
Ecosystem Investment Partners................................ 160
Evoqua Water Technologies.................................... 161
Family Farm Alliance......................................... 162
Freshwater Furture........................................... 164
Galveston Bay Foundation..................................... 165
Georgia Section American Water Works Association............. 166
GreenLatinos................................................. 167
Gulf Coast Center for Law & Policy........................... 168
Gulf Coast Sustainable Grower's Alliance..................... 169
Education Conservatioin Cooperation.......................... 170
Internatioinal Union of Painters and Allied Trades, AFL-CIO.. 172
Iowa Soybean Association..................................... 173
Maryland Department of the Environment (MDE)................. 174
Milwaukee Water Commons...................................... 175
Missouri Section American Water Works Association............ 176
Metropolitan Sewer District, Safe Clean Waterways............ 177
National Latino Farmers & Ranchers Trade Assiciation......... 179
National Municipal Stormwater Alliance....................... 181
National Parks Conservation Association, May 7, 2021......... 183
National Recreation and Park Association..................... 185
National Wildlife Federation................................. 186
NC AWWA-WEA, American Water Works Association................ 188
Natural Resources Defense Council............................ 189
David P. Ross, Former Assistant Administrator Office of
Water, EPA................................................. 190
OHIO Section American Water Works Association, May 4, 2021... 192
Pittsburgh Water & Sewer Authority........................... 193
Policy Link.................................................. 195
Physicians for Social Responsibility......................... 196
PVC Pipe Association......................................... 198
River Network................................................ 199
Seatle Public Utilities...................................... 200
SERCAP, Inc.................................................. 202
Sierra Club.................................................. 203
Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy........... 204
The Conservation Fund........................................ 205
The Freshwater Trust......................................... 209
The Green Infrastructure Leadership Exchange................. 210
The Sewerage & Water Board of New Orleans.................... 211
The Water Research Foundation................................ 212
Tualatin Riverkeepers........................................ 214
Mayor Regina Romero, City of Tucson.......................... 216
United for Infrastructure.................................... 217
U.S. Water Alliance.......................................... 218
Marc Edwards, Affiliatio-University Distinguished Professor,
Virginia Tech.............................................. 219
Detroit Water and Swewerage Department(DWSD)................. 221
Water for People............................................. 223
Water Foundation............................................. 224
Wimberley Valley Watershed Association (WVWA)................ 225
State of Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources........... 226
Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District (MMSD).............. 227
Chamber of Commerce of the United States..................... 229
Letters of support of the nomination of Michal Freedhoff:
Household Commercial Products Association.................... 230
ACS Chemistry for Life....................................... 232
Letter from several organizations to Hon. Michael S. Regan....... 234
HEARING ON THE NOMINATIONS OF SHANNON ESTENOZ TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY
OF FISH AND WILDLIFE AND PARKS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR, RADHIKA
FOX TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR FOR WATER OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTION AGENCY, AND MICHAL FREEDHOFF TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR
FOR CHEMICAL SAFETY AND POLLUTION PREVENTION OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTION AGENCY
----------
WEDNESDAY, MAY 12, 2021
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Environment and Public Works,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:07 a.m. in
room 253, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
Present: Senators Carper, Capito, Cardin, Whitehouse,
Markey, Kelly, Padilla, Inhofe, Cramer, Lummis, Boozman, and
Ernst.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE
Senator Carper. Good morning, everyone, Senator Capito.
I want to start off the hearing today and welcome our
witnesses. I want to welcome the family members and hope you
will introduce those who are here to cheer you on.
I want to start the hearing by expressing my thanks to
Senator Capito, to Adam and the folks who work with you, Mary
Frances, John Caine and others who are part of our Water team
on the Democratic side.
I like to describe this committee as workhorses, not show
horses. I think we showed that in spades a couple weeks ago on
the floor of the U.S. Senate. To be able to report out the
first major infrastructure legislation and water bill on an 89
to 2 vote was a source of great pride.
I cannot tell you how many people have said to me, I am
sure they have to you too, Senator Capito, how many of our
colleagues have said it was like the Senate of old. People were
able to offer their amendments but they also had the
opportunity to share their amendments with us and we could make
them a part of the manager's amendment.
We had a real debate on amendments. We voted up or down and
at the end of the day, we had just a wonderful vote, a very
strong endorsement letter out of the Administration.
I explained to some of my colleagues and my wife when I got
home that night, I said that it was one of my happiest weeks in
the U.S. Senate in 20 years. I am just very, very proud of the
work that we did.
We are working still on the next step, and that is surface
transportation and I hope we can come through that with an
equally good outcome.
I just want to say thanks to everyone who has been a part
of that, a special thanks to Senators Duckworth, Cardin,
Inhofe, and Lummis. Thank you all for your good work and the
work of your staff.
I am happy to see you. Some of you look pretty familiar and
the other two, I really have not had a chance to see except
maybe remotely. We are pleased to welcome each of you
outstanding nominees to fill critically important roles at the
Environmental Protection Agency, and in one case, within the
Department of the Interior.
Thank you for joining us today. We thank your family
members for joining us today. For those who might be joining us
remotely, a big thank you to your family members who are
willing to share you with all of us.
Before getting to the particulars of our nominees, I want
to take a moment to reflect on the issues we, as members of the
Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, and our
constituents back home are wrestling with that make these roles
so critically important for each of us and each of our States.
There isn't one of us who does not value the special natural
spaces near our homes and in our States, including our national
parks, including our wildlife refuges, from the First State
National Historic Park to the Everglades and a lot of places in
points east and west from there.
These spaces support the fish, support the wildlife and
quality of life that we take every opportunity to brag about. I
know I brag about our national parks, I brag about our national
wildlife refuges in our States and I suspect each of you do for
your own. These spaces support the fish, the wildlife, the
quality of life that we take again every opportunity to brag
about.
I think we have a moral obligation, which I talk about a
lot, the moral obligation that we have to this planet that we
have inherited. We have an obligation to care for these special
places, we have an obligation to care for the habitats that
they host, and the variety of species, including us, that they
nurture.
Of course, that requires skilled and committed leadership
in places like the Department of the Interior. We are thankful
to Shannon Estenoz for offering that leadership.
Water has played, as I said earlier, a significant role in
each of our lives already this morning. I don't know about you
but we turned on the faucet at our home, brewed some coffee,
and took a shower, with all the confidence that the water
coming from our spigots was clean and safe, whether because of
lead or PFOS contaminants or other contaminants, or because
they simply can't afford it.
We took a large step last week, as I said earlier, toward
addressing the concerns with the passage of our Drinking Water
and Wastewater Infrastructure Act, but there is a lot more
still to do, as we know. I am grateful that Radhika Fox is
ready to help us tackle those challenges at EPA.
Every day, millions of people across our Country struggle
with the threats posed by chemicals that pervade their homes,
their workspaces, their water, their food and household
products. Whether it is from PFAS in their water, for ethylene
oxide in their neighborhoods, or formaldehyde in their
wallboards, people are suffering.
The American people need assurances that their products,
their water, their food is safe for them and their families.
That is a prodigious responsibility. We are grateful that
Michal Freedhoff is willing to serve in this critical position.
Michal, as some of you know, used to work with Ed Markey,
or actually, I think he worked for her in the House for a long
time and maybe in the Senate as well. We are delighted that you
have this opportunity to serve in a new capacity.
We are happy to welcome your daughters who are sitting over
your left shoulder. I am always amazed at people like Michal,
raising four kids, helping raise four kids and working really
hard at the job here with all of us and somehow making it all
work. Thank you.
To the girls, I want to say, those who are here and those
watching remotely, thank you for sharing your mom with all of
us.
Shannon Estenoz brings 24 years of conservation experience
to the job, including as the Department of the Interior's
Director of Everglades Restoration Initiatives and Executive
Director of the South Florida Ecosystem Restoration Task Force.
Her work prompted Eric Eichenberg, Everglades Foundation CEO,
to say of her nomination, ``They are bringing on an
extraordinary woman who is committed to the natural resources
and environment of this Country.''
Radhika Fox brings to her prospective role as head of the
EPA Water Office a deep understanding of water policy and the
importance of making clean water accessible to all Americans,
regardless of their income or regardless of their zip codes.
She has found success in working with people across the
spectrum, prompting, I think this is a quote from the Iowa
Soybean Association, and I am going to quote, ``Ms. Fox
understands how water management issues are interwoven with the
fabric of rural and urban communities and that our farmers must
be part of the team and beneficiaries of this work. This
integration is key for making real and long-lasting progress on
protecting and improving water in the 21st Century.'' Again,
that was a quote from Iowa Soybean Association.
Last, but certainly not least, is Michal Freedhoff, someone
well known to us at EPW. I already spoken about her and rather
than embarrass her further, I think we will cut to the chase
and let me just say that we are lucky to have someone who has
your profound understanding of chemicals, oversight and
management policy.
During her time when she worked with Senator Markey, who
was kind enough to let her come work with us on the Committee,
she played a key role in helping convert a highly divisive bill
to reform the Toxic Substances Control Act, better known as
TSCA, into a package that gained broad bipartisan support
throughout the Congress.
It was initially championed by Frank Lautenberg, as I
recall, and later by Tom Udall and by David Vitter, an unlikely
partnership but one that was successful. Michal deserves a lot
of credit for getting us to the finish line.
It is that kind of knowledge-based, thoughtful and
inclusive engagement that we so sorely need as head of the
Chemical Safety Office at EPA. I think our Country will be well
served to have Michal in that leadership role at EPA.
I thank you all of you again for your willingness to share
your wisdom, your expertise, and your inclusive instincts with
our Nation.
With that, I am happy to recognize the Ranking Member,
Senator Capito, for her opening statement. Senator Capito.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA
Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
It is nice to be here with you after our win on the Water
Bill on the floor. I add my voice of congratulations to you and
your leadership team and your staff. Our staffs worked great
together.
Somebody asked me, how did you do that? I said, well, we
listened to our committee, and we listened to our witnesses,
and we wrote a bill that tried to accommodate, as much as we
could, the varying views.
I think in a place where there is a lot of talking, maybe
listening is the better key to getting things done. You are a
great listener and I appreciate being a part of your committee.
Thank you for that. I also do want to thank the staff.
I look over here and I see three very talented women. I am
very proud of the fact that, with your beautiful daughters
here, we get to see more and more women taking the helm of the
leadership positions in the highest levels of our government.
Congratulations to the President for nominating three strong
women and having them in front of our committee today.
We are going to look at another core function of our
committee. Then I want to add a caveat that we are working hard
to do the same thing with surface transportation that we were
able to do with water. It is a heavier lift, we are finding,
but we are working hard together to reach that point at which
we can bring something to not just our committee, but to the
full Senate as well.
We are gathering today to do the consideration and
oversight of the President's nominees. You all have a wealth of
experience in your respective fields, and the Chairman went
over that.
Unlike the past nominees who have appeared before us this
year, all three of today's nominees are already in place at the
agencies in which you are nominated to serve. Put in another
way, you have already been beginning to execute President
Biden's agenda.
Ms. Estenoz, Ms. Fox, and Dr. Freedhoff, thank you for your
willingness to serve and for appearing before us today. Given
your perspective from now being inside the Administration, I
especially look forward to hearing about the policies that you
are working on. I am interested to know what roles you have
played in the decisions that the Biden Administration has made
to this point.
I also want to understand in which new or different
directions you would push the Administration, being in a
Senate-confirmed role, and what additional authorities you
believe that additional layer of accountability will allow you
to bring. That insider perspective will be very helpful to us.
From the outside, the pace of executive action has seemed
to occur at warp speed and without a lot of external
engagement, especially from many of us in Congress. As National
Public Radio reported, President Biden issued more Orders in
his first 100 days than any President since Harry Truman.
NPR observed that Biden ``may have campaigned on bringing
bipartisanship back to Washington, but much of his early focus
at least is on policies that he can implement on his own.''
That is an NPR quote. Many of President Biden's key actions and
reversals have come in the environment and energy policy area.
I understand that we should expect a new Administration of
the opposite party to have different positions than its
predecessor. However, the pace of these changes and their
unilateral nature concern me.
Dramatic changes in regulations without adequate thought or
input can hurt people, businesses, and local communities. That
is particularly true during this economic recovery that we are
facing.
Of particular concern to me and this committee are issues
like the Biden Administration's decision to revisit the
Navigable Waters Protection Rule, we will be talking about
that, the streamlined NEPA Act, and the recent Migratory Bird
Treaty Rule, the last for which a proposal was just released
last week.
That said, some of the activities we have seen so far at
the Department of Interior and EPA I do agree with and
wholeheartedly support. Just last week, I participated in the
sign unveiling for America's newest national park, really a
source of pride for me, the New River Gorge National Park and
Preserve. It is already bringing that economic opportunity and
excitement to my home State. I cannot overstate how excited
folks are, and I am too. Its administration will come under
your oversight if confirmed, Ms. Estenoz.
In the activities of EPA, I was pleased to see the
Administration prioritizing research on PFAS in its budget
proposal. I am also that glad EPA is moving forward with a
primary drinking water regulation for PFOA and PFOS.
If confirmed in the Office of Water, Ms. Fox would take the
lead on that. We already talked about that on our Zoom call.
Dr. Freedhoff, I know you have a wealth of experience. I
believe we have actually been in the same room talking about
PFOS together in your former role dealing with PFOS and other
bioaccumulative chemicals from your years of service, including
to our chairman, Chairman Carper. I look forward to hearing how
the Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention also
plans to address PFOS.
I hope we can use this hearing to discuss both my points of
concern and equally important, our areas of agreement.
Thank you, Chairman Carper, for holding today's hearing. I
turn it back to you.
Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator Capito.
When you said the words the New River Gorge, it brought a
smile to my face. As a little boy, I learned to fish there with
my dad and my grandfather. What a beautiful place.
All right, thanks, Senator Capito. Now I want to introduce
our nominees. I think Senator Markey is going to help me a
little bit with one of them.
First, we have Shannon Estenoz to be Principal Deputy
Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and Parks for the
Department of Interior. Shannon served as Chief Operating
Officer and Vice President of Policy for the Everglades
Foundation. She has also served as the U.S. Department of the
Interior's Director of Everglades Restoration Initiatives, and
Executive Director of the South Florida Ecosystem Restoration
Task Force.
Her previous professional roles also included Executive
Director of the Environmental and Land Use Law Center;
Everglades Program Director of the World Wildlife Fund; Sun
Coast Regional Director of the National Parks Conservation
Association; and three terms as the National Co-Chair of the
Everglades Coalition.
Shannon's public service includes appointments to Florida's
Governor Lawton Chiles, with whom I had the privilege of
serving as Governor, on the Commission for A Sustainable South
Florida; Governor Jeb Bush's Commission for the Everglades; the
Governing Board of the South Florida Water Management District
and Water Resources Advisory Commission; and the Broward Water
Resources Task Force.
That is a pretty impressive list. We welcome you here
today. I am going to ask you to share your testimony with us
and then I will introduce Ms. Fox. Go ahead, please. Thank you,
Shannon.
Senator Markey. Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Why don't you please go ahead, Mr. Markey.
Senator Markey. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. I
would like to begin just by saying that I know your wife,
Martha, thinks of you as a show horse while here you are a
workhorse. But back in Delaware, you are the show horse.
[Laughter.]
Senator Markey. I thank you, Chairman Carper, and Ranking
Member Capito, for the opportunity to introduce Michal
Freedhoff before the committee today. It is wonderful that two
of her four children are here with us, the twins, her oldest
daughters, Zahava and Rena.
By nominating Dr. Freedhoff to serve as the EPA Assistant
Administrator for Chemical Safety and Pollution Protection,
President Biden is tapping an incredible scientific mind, a
tenacious fighter for the public interest and a brilliant
policymaker who has made a career out of bipartisan solutions.
With all due respect to Senator Inhofe of Oklahoma, with
whom we disagree on climate issues, I have to give credit where
credit is due because it was Dr. Freedhoff, working with
Senator Inhofe's staff, who got us to work together and pass
numerous pieces of bipartisan legislation on brownfields, on
chemical safety in the interest of consumers and our
communities. In my opinion, there is truly no better candidate
than Michal Freedhoff for this very important job.
Dr. Freedhoff began her career in Congress in 1996 as a
Science Fellow in my office in the House of Representatives. I
couldn't have been too bad a boss because it began an
incredible 20-plus years of work in Congress, including more
than a decade of working with me in the House and the Senate
from 1996 all the way up until 2017. congressional staffers and
scientists reach a point in their careers where they have to
pick whether to know a little about a lot or a lot about a
little. Michal is the rare blend of the two who knows a lot
about a lot of things. She truly is a congressional expert.
From her successful work strengthening fuel economy
standards and ensuring DOE whistleblower protections to raising
the alarm about chemical disbursants used during the BP oil
spoil to investigating nuclear safety, she has used her keen
intelligence and scientific training as a chemist to draft and
past the best policy.
She also got me to sing about chemical safety and security
in the Energy and Commerce Committee dais to the tune of What A
Wonderful World It Would Be. Yes, she got gas chlorine to rhyme
with water clean, so her talents truly know no limits. She
really does know how to get things done.
Michal was absolutely instrumental to our bipartisan work
in strengthening the Toxic Substances Control Act. She can tell
you what almost every chemical abbreviation stands for as well
as what it would stand to do to our communities. For Dr.
Freedhoff, the Periodic Table of Elements is her alphabet.
She fought for firefighters, for workers, for children's
health and for strong standards that provide certainty to
businesses. During these negotiations, she worked to ensure EPA
had enough funding from industry fees to assess and regulate
chemicals and that industry had deadlines for compliance with
EPA regulations.
She pushed so that regulations on the most dangerous
chemicals are finished more quickly and that if chemicals are
found to be unsafe for groups like pregnant women, children, or
workers, that EPA has to write regulations to protect those
more vulnerable communities.
She recognized that it is bipartisan commitment, married
with consensus and give and take, that yields important, long-
lasting legislation. She is now in a position to help implement
that historic legislation. Our communities and families will be
healthier for it.
I saw back in 1996 that there was a tremendous intellect
and spirit in Michal. That excellence has only continued. For
20 years, she has served the public in Congress making policy
stronger and smarter at every turn.
I urge the committee to approve her nomination as EPA
Assistant Administrator for Chemical Safety and Pollution
Protection. She served us well as Minority Director of
Oversight on this committee. Now the entire Nation can benefit
from her leadership, building the strongest possible
protections against dangerous chemicals in our environment.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. I am Tom Carper and I approve that message.
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. We will not ask you to sing but we are
delighted that you were able to introduce Michal to all of us.
I am going to move next to Radhika Fox. We will just
introduce you, then we will come back and ask you to give your
comments. Ms. Fox currently serves as EPA Principal Deputy
Assistant Administrator for Water. In that role, she is the
Acting Assistant Administrator for Water.
Ms. Fox has more than 20 years of experience in developing
policies, programs and issues-based advocacy campaigns. She
previously was the CEO of the U.S. Water Alliance. She also led
the Value of Water Coalition, a program administered by the
U.S. Alliance that spearheaded the popular Imagine A Day
without Water Advocacy Campaign.
Prior to joining the U.S. Water Alliance, Ms. Fox directed
policy and governmental affairs for the San Francisco Public
Utilities Commission, where my wife and I were last weekend for
Mother's Day.
Ms. Fox holds a BA from Columbia University and a Master's
in City and Regional Planning from the University of California
at Berkeley where she was a HUD Community Development Fellow.
Finally, I am not going to attempt to match Senator
Markey's comments with respect to Michal Freedhoff, but I think
you can sense we know her and we love her. We are pleased she
has this opportunity.
I think it is really great, I will say this to this to your
daughters, the law that your Mom was very much involved in
writing, she now has the opportunity to implement for our
Country and I think she will do very good work with us. That is
something of value.
With that having been said, I think I will come back to
you, Ms. Estenoz, for your statement. Thank you and welcome.
Feel free to introduce anyone who has joined us today in person
or remotely if you would like to.
STATEMENT OF SHANNON ESTENOZ, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY
OF FISH AND WILDLIFE AND PARKS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR
Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Chairman Carper, Ranking Member
Capito, and members of the Environment and Public Works
Committee. It is an honor to appear before you as President
Biden's nominee to be Assistant Secretary of the Interior for
Fish and Wildlife and Parks. I am very honored to be on this
panel with these distinguished nominees from EPA.
I want to say hello to my husband, Richard, our sons Nick
and Spencer, my mom, my friends, my family who are all watching
this morning.
Senator Carper. Where are they?
Ms. Estenoz. They are all over. I have folks in Pittsburgh,
Arizona, Tennessee, Florida, everywhere. I want to say hi to
everyone. Thank you.
I am a fifth generation Floridian, born like all of my
grandparents, in Key West. We call ourselves Conchs after the
beautiful mollusk once plentiful in the Florida Keys. My father
was a civil engineer and for the first 10 years of my life, his
career took us to oil platforms off the coast of Louisiana, the
Tennessee Valley Authority in Knoxville, and the U.S. Army
Corps of Engineers in Kansas City.
Before my father passed away in 1979, we returned to Key
West where his last job was as an engineer for Monroe County,
where he worked to replace the old Seven Mile bridge, perhaps
the most famous section of the Overseas Highway.
To grow up in Key West is to grow up on the water,
swimming, fishing, snorkeling, boating and whether you know it
or not, the water and its wildlife shape you. One of my
earliest memories on the boat with my grandfather fishing was
the day he caught me setting free the bait fish in his live
well. He didn't scold me, because he knew there is no conflict
between harvesting fish and wanting to protect them. Because
when your family has been in a place for many generations,
there is an instinct to conserve that has nothing to do with
science or regulations. It has to do with a connection to place
and to a way of life.
My own career path includes many echoes of my father's. I
too pursued civil engineering. As a student, I returned to
eastern Tennessee to intern at Eastman Chemical Company. Of
course, I dedicated 24 years of my career to an infrastructure
modernization program, led by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers,
to restore the Everglades. I guess I never lost my childhood
instinct to help fish, and birds, and mammals, and people, by
helping to restore the land and the ecosystem that sustains
them all.
My father was a bridge builder, and as part of my work on
Everglades Restoration, I was proud to play a part in building
new bridges across the Everglades. Today water flows under
those new bridges into Everglades National Park.
So I know that jobs, infrastructure, conservation, and
restoration can and should go hand in hand. My work in the
Everglades was ideal training for the role of Assistant
Secretary for Fish, Wildlife and Parks. I spent more than two
decades in the trenches of collaborative conservation, land and
ecosystem restoration, species recovery, water management,
invasive species response actions, and National Park
stewardship.
I spent 7 years at the Department of Interior as its
Director of Everglades Restoration, reporting directly to the
position to which I have been nominated. I was a colleague and
leader of the dedicated career staff in both bureaus that this
Assistant Secretary manages.
As a State official, I have been a customer of the Fish and
Wildlife Service's regulatory programs. So I know firsthand
what it is like to be a State trying to work with the Federal
Government. As a stakeholder, I participated in the
government's efforts to engage the public, and I have put in
the hard work that it takes to build consensus and coalitions
to get things done.
I have been in my current role at Interior for 112 days.
Every day I learn more about the fish and wildlife and parks
issues facing your States and the Nation. If I am confirmed, I
will draw on my long State and Federal experience as I work on
issues such as water management and predator recovery in the
West; protecting resources central to the cultural and economic
well-being of tribes; combating invasive species; and
collaborating on conservation of the sagebrush ecosystem.
The National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service
play crucial roles in the challenges before us: recovering
species and conserving habitat; supporting recreation and
restoration jobs on public lands; and stewarding our most
treasured landscapes and imperiled species through threats like
wildfire and drought that are intensifying as a result of
climate change.
The Fish and Wildlife Service is on the front lines of
wildlife disease, including preventing those diseases from
spreading to humans. The Park Service will play a key role in
recommitting to our government-to-government relationship with
Tribal Nations and telling the stories of all Americans.
If I am confirmed, I will bring with me the tools that have
served me best in my career: communication, transparency, and
intellectual honesty. I will approach this role with a passion
for collaboration and meeting big challenges in partnership.
I look forward to celebrating together the results that we
achieve together. I hope that today will be the first of many
conversations with this committee.
Thank you, and I look forward to answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Estenoz follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Carper. Thank you very much.
Did you say your Mom is watching today?
Ms. Estenoz. My mother is watching today, yes.
Senator Carper. Your dad passed away a number of years ago?
Ms. Estenoz. He did, when I was 11.
Senator Carper. I am sure they are very proud of you.
Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Thank you very much for that statement.
The position that you have been nominated for was held most
recently by Rob Wallace, who was a good friend of many of us
and good for the John Barrassos as well. I will never forget at
his confirmation hearing, he talked about the bipartisan nature
of this committee and the way we work together, whether it was
water, surface transportation or other issues.
He said these words, he said, ``Bipartisan solutions are
lasting solutions.'' I have quoted him a million times. Thank
God, I haven't had to pay him for the times I have quoted him.
That spirit really underlies much of what we do here. So thank
you.
Next is Radhika Fox. Ms. Fox, you are welcome to begin when
you are ready.
STATEMENT OF RADHIKA FOX, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR
FOR WATER OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
Ms. Fox. Thank you, Chairman Carper, Ranking Member Capito,
and members of the Committee. I am humbled to be nominated by
President Biden, and honored to be considered by this esteemed
committee, for the position of Assistant Administrator for
Water at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
I am excited to engage with you today, to hear about your
water priorities, and discuss how the Office of Water can
support the communities that you so proudly represent.
I want to acknowledge the family that is here with me
today: my husband, Jamie; my dad, Dr. K., as his patients call
him; my brother, Raghu, and his wife, Katie. And my kids,
Anjali and Krishna, wanted to be here, but I said no skipping
school.
My family is the American dream at work. I am a first
generation American. My father and my mother grew up in rural
India. My grandparents provided for their families as small
farmers growing rice, lemons and bananas. They relied on wells
for their drinking water and pit latrines for their wastewater
management. Everything I have accomplished is because I stand
on the shoulders of my parents' hard work. Thank you for that,
Dad.
Today, I sit before you as the first woman of color, the
first person of Asian-American descent, to be nominated to lead
EPA's Office of Water. Only in America could that happen in one
generation. If confirmed, it would be my honor to serve the
country where my parents' hopes and dreams took root and
flourished.
Senators, as you all know, water is the world's most
precious resource. However, our Nation's water systems are
often invisible to most. The vast majority of Americans turn on
the tap and safe water flows out. Used water goes down the
drain and is treated before it is safely returned to the
environment.
Most people just don't think about the environmental
policies, the funding and financing programs, the work of local
water utilities, and the key role of States and tribes in
providing these essential water services. It just works for
most Americans, but not for all.
During the Flint Water Crisis, Time Magazine told the story
of 2-year-old Sincere Smith, featured on the cover with a full
body rash from bathing in the water. What Sincere and his
family experienced should not be experienced by any child or
parent in this Country. That is really what brings me to this
work.
If confirmed, I will dedicate myself to ensuring that all
people, regardless of their income, their zip code, or the
color of their skin, will have access to clean and safe water.
Prior to joining the EPA, I served as the CEO for the U.S.
Water Alliance, where I championed consensus-based progress on
complex water issues. I worked with water leaders across the
country, from rural hamlets to urban enclaves, from America's
heartland to both coasts.
I also worked at the San Francisco Public Utilities
Commission, the public water agency that provides drinking
water, wastewater, stormwater and municipal power to 2.7
million people in the Bay Area. There, I learned what it takes
to comply with the range of regulations promulgated by the
Office of Water, and I also built practical knowledge on how to
manage water systems, whether it is capital and budget
planning, infrastructure project delivery, planning for drought
and diversifying of water supplies and managing through crises
like wildfires.
Throughout my career, I have been guided by one
foundational principle: listen to all sides in order to find
enduring solutions. If confirmed, I will manage the Office of
Water in a manner that is grounded in the wisdom, the voice,
and the lived experience of those who are impacted by our
decisions.
We can't make policy sitting behind a desk in Washington,
DC. We have to actively engage with all those who are impacted
by our decisions, whether it is water utilities, farmers and
ranchers, community organizations, environmental organizations,
States, tribes, local officials, and many, many others.
I truly believe, Senators, that water is the great uniter.
It can unite this Country; it can help pull us out of the
compounding crises that face our Nation, whether it is a global
pandemic, economic recession, longstanding racial inequities,
and climate change. Water brings us together across society and
across the aisle.
If confirmed, it would be my honor to work with
Administrator Regan and all of you to advance durable water
solutions.
I look forward to your questions. Thank you so much for
your time.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Fox follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Carper. Thanks again.
Would you ask your Dad to raise his hand? Thank you so
much. Who is that other fellow sitting next to him?
Ms. Fox. My husband.
Senator Carper. My staff tried to convince me he was your
brother, but that is your husband.
Thanks to both of you for being willing to share your
daughter and wife with all of us. It is nice to see you all.
Dr. Freedhoff, please.
STATEMENT OF MICHAL FREEDHOFF, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT
ADMINISTRATOR FOR CHEMICAL SAFETY AND POLLUTION PREVENTION OF
THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
Ms. Freedhoff. Good morning, Chairman Carper, Ranking
Member Capito, Senator Inhofe, and other members of the
committee.
It is an honor to be here today, though I will admit it is
kind of strange to be sitting on this side of the dais. I am
fortunate to have what I think of as three honorary home State
Senators on this committee: Senator Cardin, from my adopted
home State of Maryland; Senator Markey, my first Capitol Hill
boss and for whom I worked for more than 15 years; and Chairman
Carper, who gave me the opportunity to work on this committee
staff the last 4 years.
Senator Inhofe. What about me?
Ms. Freedhoff. OK, you too.
[Laughter.]
Ms. Freedhoff. I am joined here today by my twin daughters,
Zahava and Rena Van Leeuwen, who hopefully are not playing on
their phones. Watching from home are my husband, Michael; my
son, Sammy; and daughter, Vivienne.
My late mother, Helen Freedhoff, and my 85-year-old father,
Stephen, who is stuck behind a closed border in Canada, would
have been here if they could have been.
I moved to Washington the day after I defended my Ph.D. in
chemistry. Although I didn't even have a job lined up, I was
drawn to working in government, knowing that I could use my
scientific background to make a difference in people's lives.
During my time on Capitol Hill, I was remarkably fortunate
to have had the rare opportunity to work with so many of you
and your staffs to rewrite the Toxic Substances Control Act. I
certainly never imagined that I would have this once in a
lifetime honor to be President Biden's nominee to lead the
Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention at EPA and
implement the law that we all worked so hard on.
During my more than two decades working for the legislative
branch, I believe I earned a reputation for being fair,
approachable, substantive, and able to craft provisions and
consensus by bringing people with disparate viewpoints
together.
Many provisions of this committee's unanimously supported
PFAS legislation demonstrate the way I approach the legislative
process. Some of these measures, like adding almost 200 PFAS
chemicals to the Toxics Release Inventory that Senators Capito,
Gillibrand and Carper co-authored, actually fall within the
office I would manage if confirmed.
It is that spirit of collaboration that I would bring to
this new role. I believe that we can, and we must, fulfill
EPA's mission of protecting human health and the environment in
a manner that includes input provided by a diverse set of
stakeholders. That applies to ensuring chemical safety under
TSCA, to providing safe, effective tools for farmers to protect
our food supply under the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and
Rodenticide Act, FIFRA, and to working to incentivize more
sustainable practices and products in our pollution prevention
programs.
If confirmed, one of the responsibilities I most look
forward to is implementing the Frank Lautenberg Chemical Safety
for the 21st Century Act, TSCA. I consider that work to be a
highlight of my career.
Some combination of the complexity of the subject matter,
the intense debate surrounding some of the issues, and the
shared legislative battle scars made the bipartisan team of
staff, who spent months together as we worked to get it done,
among my most trusted colleagues and friends today still. We
took the time needed to understand each other's perspectives
and made important compromises as we negotiated difficult and
sometimes very divisive provisions of the bill. That hard work
produced a law that was supported almost unanimously.
I want to provide my assurance that if confirmed, I will
ensure that our activities are conducted transparently, using
the best available science and informed by EPA's expert career
staff. While you may not ultimately agree with every decision I
make, I can commit to you that if confirmed, all our decisions
will be well documented, transparently made, and will seek and
incorporate input from all stakeholders.
Finally, while I have worked closely with EPA staff for
years, I have developed newfound appreciation for their
dedication, talent and resilience since arriving at the agency
a few months ago. I am looking forward to working with the
scientific, legal, and policy staff to implement America's
chemical and pesticide safety programs.
If confirmed, I am confident that with their partnership we
can move TSCA implementation forward in a manner that honors
the late Senator Lautenberg's legacy and lives up to Congress's
expectations that EPA uses its new authority to protect
Americans against the risks of unsafe chemicals.
Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify, and I
look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Freedhoff follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Carper. Thank you very much for that statement,
Michal.
Before I turn to Senator Capito for the first round of
questions, we have something we do at each of our hearings with
witnesses who have been nominated. I ask you three questions.
After I ask the question, we will just go down the line and you
can say yes or no. I would urge a ``yes'' response but it is up
to you.
The first question is, do you agree, if confirmed, to
appear before this committee or designated members of this
committee and other appropriate Members of the Congress, and to
provide information subject to appropriate and necessary
security protections with respect to your responsibilities? Do
you, Ms. Estenoz?
Ms. Estenoz. Yes.
Senator Carper. Ms. Fox?
Ms. Fox. Yes.
Senator Carper. Dr. Freedhoff?
Ms. Freedhoff. Yes.
Senator Carper. Thank you. So far so good. Second question,
do you agree to ensure that testimony, briefings, documents and
other electronic forms of information are provided to this
committee and its staff and other appropriate committees in a
timely manner?
Ms. Estenoz. Yes.
Ms. Fox. Yes.
Ms. Freedhoff. Yes.
Senator Carper. Thank you. One last one. Do you know of any
matters which you may or may not have disclosed which may place
you in a conflict of interest if you are confirmed?
Ms. Estenoz. No.
Ms. Fox. No.
Ms. Freedhoff. No.
Senator Carper. Thank you. Senator Capito, we are going to
have two 5-minute rounds in terms of questions. She needs to be
in two places at one time right now and the Commerce Committee.
Thank you very much for being here.
Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for giving me the
privilege of going first. I apologize, after I question them, I
have to go over to Commerce. We are working on the Endless
Frontiers Act which is----
Senator Carper. Endless.
Senator Capito. Endless. That is a good way of putting it.
[Laughter.]
Senator Capito. I am going to start with you, Ms. Fox. We
talked about this issue on Waters of the U.S. You have all
pledged clarity, thoughtfulness and regulatory certainty.
Administrator Regan committed to not going back to the
verbatim reading of the 2015 Obama Waters of the U.S. rule.
This is a very far-reaching rule that impacts a lot of people
and a lot of agriculture as well. But he hasn't provided much
detail on this.
I am wondering, in your opinion, do you believe that the
2015 rule was overreaching? What would your plans be to ensure
we do not return to that overreaching definition which I,
obviously, believe that it was? Also, do you agree or disagree
with the court decision, including the injunctions against the
rule issued in 2015?
Ms. Fox. Thank you, Senator Capito, for the question. Also,
thank you for the opportunity to visit with you recently on so
many of the issues before the Office of Water. I really look
forward to accomplishing great things with you and your office
if confirmed.
On the question of Waters of the U.S., this is, of course,
one of the most foundational components of the work before the
Office of Water because it sets the foundation for how we
protect our lakes, our rivers, our oceans, our wetlands. We are
in the process of reviewing the Navigable Waters Protection
Rule. Under Administrator Regan's direction, we are really
trying to understand what are the lessons learned from an
implementation perspective on both the 2015 rule and the 2020
rule.
You asked about how we are going to approach that review
and that consideration. It will really be, as Administrator
Regan has said, to listen to all sides to understand what is
working, what is not working from an implementation
perspective, from the agricultural community, from industry,
from environmental organizations, as well as our co-regulators,
the States and tribes. Based on that feedback, and really based
on the science and the economic analysis, we will make a
determination moving forward.
What I can say, Senator Capito, is that Administrator Regan
and I want an enduring definition of Waters of the U.S., one
that can withstand Administration changes, that can protect our
waters and ensure the economic vitality of all communities.
That is our commitment as we do this review.
Senator Capito. I would implore you again, as I think a lot
of folks did who opposed the direction the Obama administration
went, that we don't go down that path again. Obviously, the
courts agreed with that presumption and caused a lot of
confusion at the same time.
Ms. Estenoz, I wanted to ask you about NEPA. Just recently
Secretary Haaland signed secretarial orders that directed the
DOI to ignore and to not follow the commonsense reforms to the
implementation of NEPA. We hear about this from everybody in
terms of how long it takes to get things approved, how long the
process is, how lengthy and expensive it is, and we still are
having issues.
Did you play any role in advising the Secretary in the NEPA
implementation decision? Are there elements of the Trump
Administration's NEPA reforms that you could support? The first
question is, did you play any role in them?
Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator Capito.
I was not directly involved in the development of the NEPA
recommendations, but as part of the DOI leadership team during
these first 112 days, I have paid close attention. Obviously
for the two bureaus that I have managing, this is a very
important issue for them.
I think the Secretary's goal here is to make sure our
environmental reviews are thorough but also timely and
efficient. I think it is very important that balance be struck.
We are reviewing the procedures and policies the previous
Administration had in place. The elements of it that work, I
fully expect we will continue those and refine those that need
to be refined to achieve the right balance between thoroughness
and timeliness.
In my career, I have been on all sides of NEPA. So I have
been a customer waiting for a NEPA to be finished and then I
have been involved in the development of them. So I am
sensitive to how long those analyses can take. But again, I
think it is finding that right balance between making sure they
are thorough. It is an important bedrock of the way that
government implements programs and projects, and then doing it
in a way that is efficient, transparent and accessible to the
public and to sort of our customer base for projects and
programs.
Senator Capito. As we look to the big Surface
Transportation Bill that we are working on, that is obviously a
critical aspect of this. I would encourage you to take that
practical experience that you bring in terms of length and
time, without skirting any environmental regulations, into
consideration.
The new national park in West Virginia, since you will have
oversight over the national parks, I wanted to get a
reassurance, No. 1, that you would come and visit our brand new
park, where he learned to fish with his father and grandfather.
It is a really special place. So, a commitment that the new
park will be able to get the infrastructure that is needed with
the increase visitorship that we are already seeing.
Ms. Estenoz. Senator, let me say that I, my husband, and
our two at the time very young children spent a magical summer
vacation at New River Gorge, one of the most magnificent places
in our Country. For a Florida girl, where we measure topography
in inches, it was really a staggering and profoundly impactful
experience for me. It is really one of my favorite places. You
can count on me, if I am confirmed, to make sure that the
National Park Service has what they need to make the most of
that. I want to congratulate you and Senator Manchin on that.
Senator Capito. We will have to clip that and put that out
around the Country. That is a great advertisement for our
beautiful spot.
Last question, Dr. Freedhoff on the PFOS issue. You know
this is something I am deeply committed to and you mentioned it
in your opening statement.
Do you feel there is a scientific gap between the tools
that EPA needs to decide whether or not to regulate? It seems
like it has taken so long in some ways. Is that because there
is a gap in tools and a gap of certifiable data that can be
used to move forward?
Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much for that question, Senator.
I know how important the issue is to you and to so many
members of the committee as well. I know there is sometimes a
disconnect between the urgency that people expect the agency to
be able to act with and the urgency that we actually act on.
Senator Capito. Right.
Ms. Freedhoff. Part of the reason for that are the research
gaps that you are talking about. One of the provisions that was
in this committee's PFOS legislation was language directing
EPA's Office of Research and Development to come up with a way
to prioritize PFOS so that the agency will be able to focus its
research and monitoring efforts a little bit more
strategically.
In my office, if I am confirmed, there are a few different
efforts that we have been working on that will help complement
that. First is the Toxic Release Inventory language that you
co-authored which will give us information about which PFOS are
still being released into the environment.
Second is a proposed rule that is at OMB that will require
manufacturers who make PFOS to tell us what they made, how much
they made and what it was used for. That would give us a
snapshot of what is in commerce. That will also be able to
inform our research efforts, and monitoring and regulatory
efforts as well.
Finally, just a couple weeks ago, we announced a policy
that is designed to prevent unsafe new PFOS from entering
commerce. That will prevent future problems that will cause us
to play catch-up again as well.
Senator Capito. I appreciate that.
Thank you so much. I have to run.
Senator Carper. Thanks for being here. We will see you
later.
I will start my questioning with Ms. Fox. Ms. Fox, if
confirmed, what will you do to make sure we have affordable,
clean and safe drinking and wastewater for all Americans?
Ms. Fox. Thank you, Senator Carper.
First, I would make sure that the Office of Water is
implementing the range of water infrastructure funding and
financing programs that this committee has taken so much
leadership on developing. I would also focus on strengthening
and supporting the capacity of our States and our tribes,
because they are often the ones that are working with local
communities and getting these resources delivered.
I also think we have an opportunity to do more on
affordability. I know this is an issue that is very important
to you and other members of the committee, that as we make
these infrastructure investments, we have to do them in a way
that makes them continue to be affordable both to individual
families, but also that there is affordability at the utility
scale.
A third priority will really be around PFOS and emerging
contaminants. I think as Michal just said, we have so much
exciting work happening at EPA right now. I was really proud
just a couple of weeks ago to be asked by Administrator Regan
to co-chair a new PFOS Executive Council. I think that is going
to be important as we think about making sure that water is
clean for all families.
Senator Carper. My second question is for Dr. Freedhoff.
Dr. Freedhoff, first of all, let me say I am very pleased you
received support from former EPA Administrators, both Democrat
and Republican, who have led the Office of Chemical Safety and
Pollution Prevention before you.
I would like to ask unanimous consent to enter into the
record a letter from no less than seven former directors or
administrators of the Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution
Prevention urging your confirmation.
Not hearing any objection, so ordered.
[The referenced information follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5118.174
.EPS[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5118.175
.EPSSenator Carper. One area I am really interested in, and
I suspect many of us are, in hearing from you on, and I suspect
many of us are, is how EPA plans to implement TSCA, the Toxic
Substances Control Act, to protect American workers. We have
heard from environmental groups that they are unhappy with the
way EPA assumed workers would always be wearing protective
gear. We have heard from companies that they are unhappy that
EPA made unrealistic assumptions about risks to workers.
With that in mind, would you tell us how you think the
worker safety concerns should be addressed?
Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much for that question, Mr.
Chairman.
I have heard a lot from environmental organizations and
industry as well. As you know, the last Administration
finalized the first ten risk evaluations under TSCA. I think
there was a lot of good work that went into those risk
evaluations but I think a lot of them were rushed as well. But
I also know the career scientists at EPA really moved heaven
and earth to get them done.
So I can't really speak to you as to why those decisions
were made, but I can tell you a little bit about how I see the
issue of worker safety and how I would implement it if
confirmed. First of all, if our scientific risk evaluations
find that a chemical burns your hand, but gloves solve that
problem, then our chemical safety rule is just going to say you
have to wear gloves.
It is the same for OSHA. If the chemical safety risk
evaluation finds a risk we identified can be solved by
complying with OSHA regulations, then our rule is just going to
say follow OSHA rules.
The second thing I would say is that industry clearly feels
like it has a lot of information that the agency needs to make
our decisions. I have met with industry a number of times and I
really want to say that I welcome their input. If they show us
that something that they are currently doing to protect workers
is enough to address the risk, then our rule is just going to
say, keep on doing what you are doing.
The third thing I would say is I think the agency could do
a better job with risk communication. The law tells us that we
have to look at potentially exposed and susceptible
subpopulations. Of course that includes workers.
But saying that a risk exists to workers in the absence of
protections doesn't mean the protections are absent at chemical
companies all over this Country. I think we will do better in
the future to provide context that is important for everyone to
understand in future.
Senator Carper. My time has expired.
Senator Inhofe, you are next. According to my list, Senator
Whitehouse is going to join us next by Webex. I see we have
been joined by Senator Cramer. Senator Markey was here and he
may come back. My guess is he will. We are looking for Senator
Kelly and Senator Padilla as well.
Senator Cardin. Senator Cardin is on Webex.
Senator Carper. Senator Cardin on Webex. Good. Thank you.
Senator Inhofe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I do have a question for each of the witnesses. I am been
looking forward to this. I had a chance to visit with some.
Let's start with you, Ms. Fox. The WOTUS rule that was in
place prior to the last Administration was one that we had a
real concern with out in Oklahoma. That was primarily that we
had the idea that the State regulation of the water was working
very well in our State of Oklahoma.
There is a fear that with a regulation coming from
Washington, that even out, we are a pretty arid State. If you
get out in the panhandle of Oklahoma, it does not get a lot
drier than that. They were saying they felt that under the
Federal rules that would probably end up being a wetland and be
over-regulated.
So I would just like to know the specifics on the rules
that Trump replaced WOTUS with, what specific things about that
do you find to be objectionable, if any?
Ms. Fox. Thank you for the question, Senator.
I think the example you just shared from your home State of
Oklahoma is exactly why, if confirmed, I would really manage
the Office of Water in a way that really tried to understand
the wisdom, the voice and the lived practical experience of
people in complying with our rules. I bring that orientation
because I worked at a local water agency that had to comply
with all of the things that the Office of Water did.
To your question specifically, as we have been conducting
our review of both the 2015 rule and the 2020 rule, really at
the direction of Administrator Regan, we have found
implementation challenges with both of the rules. For example,
with the 2015 rule, there were a lot of case-specific
jurisdictional determinations. What we found from listening to
folks in the States is that was really cumbersome from an
implementation perspective. That is what our career staff have
heard.
At the same time, I think the 2020 rule tried to correct
for that. But now what we are hearing, our career staff are
hearing from several States is, now we have the vast majority
of waters in some of the States that are now not
jurisdictional. So it is raising a different kind of
implementation challenge as far as water quality protection.
Senator Inhofe. I don't mean to interrupt you but I know I
have to get to all three of you. I appreciate your comments.
Particularly your opening statement, I enjoyed that. I look
forward to working with you. If you don't behave, I am going to
talk to your Daddy.
I want to real quickly go to Ms. Estenoz on the Lesser
Prairie Chicken. I know you are fully familiar with that. You
and I had a chance to visit about that.
We are facing something right now in a Federal court in
Texas about the threatened listing for the Prairie Chicken. The
reason at that time they didn't think the conservation efforts
were really impressive, were really considered at that time. We
are talking about five States who are involved in this. You and
I had a chance to talk about that.
I would just like to kind of get your input into how much
weight are you going to put, attach to, the conservation
efforts of the five States in terms of your jurisdiction?
Ms. Estenoz. Senator Inhofe, thank you so much. Thank you
for the time you spent with me talking about this and other
issues. I very much appreciate it.
We are under a court deadline to issue a 12-month finding
near the end of the month. What I would say is that the
conservation efforts of States and private landowners are
central, really, to any hope we have for recovering species,
before they are listed or whether they are listed or not,
regardless of their conservation status.
You gave me good counsel yesterday to reach out and learn
more about those conservation efforts. I have already taken
steps in the last 24 hours to begin that dialog. I think that
is really where the hope for the Lesser Prairie Chicken lies,
in our collaborative efforts to recover that species.
Senator Inhofe. That is good. We will be visiting with you.
I appreciate it very much. I have every reason to believe that
you will take great consideration of the input that is out
there.
Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Carper. Your time has expired but go ahead. We are
going to have a second round as well.
Senator Inhofe. I have a picture here I want everyone to
look at. I want the little girls here, Zahava and Rena, to
listen to what I am saying. Your Mama probably is the only
person in America that will have equal praise from Senator
Markey and me. I say that in all honesty, because we have
worked so well together.
In fact, we shared some credit. I have often said I felt
that I was more responsible for getting Barbara Boxer to come
with us on the chemical legislation and they all now are giving
you that credit. So I am not sure, I think we shared that
credit at that time. And I have always enjoyed working with you
and certainly do.
I would like to have any comment you would make to update
us as to what we are going to be doing with the Prairie
Chicken. You and I both know all the background of that. I
would like to see where you think we are going to be on that
issue.
Senator Carper. I would ask you to be very brief if you
will, please.
Ms. Freedhoff. I am hoping that I don't have to talk about
the Prairie Chicken for the entire 4 years that I spend in this
position if I am confirmed.
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. That was very brief and to the point. I
think she got her message across. That was lovely. I am glad
you asked for the extra time. We will come back to you for a
second round, Senator Inhofe.
Senator Inhofe. We will.
Senator Carper. Senator Cardin is going to join us next by
Webex, followed by Senator Cramer, Senator Whitehouse by Webex,
Senator Lummis by Webex, Senator Markey, and Senator Kelly.
I have to go join a Finance Committee hearing for a little
bit. Senator Kelly is good enough to take the gavel for me
while I do that. Senator Kelly, I think Ben Cardin is up next.
Senator Cardin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Let me thank all of our witnesses. I have had a chance to
meet with each of you. Thank you very much for your public
service.
I would first ask unanimous consent to submit letters of
support for Ms. Fox to be Assistant Administrator of Water from
three Maryland organizations: Waterkeepers Chesapeake, Moonshot
Missions and South Easterners Royal Community Assistance
Project.
Senator Kelly.
[Presiding] Without objection.
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Senator Cardin. Thank you very much.
Ms. Estenoz, if I could, we had a wonderful conversation
and I appreciate your knowledge and sensitivity to the wildlife
refuges that are located in the State of Maryland and your
desire to fill critical positions, your knowledge of the
National Park System in our State of Maryland and the request
to expand the National Park System and your sensitivity to
that, your understanding of the Chesapeake Bay and the
importance it has to our entire region.
I am going to ask you a question we did not have a chance
to talk about during our meeting, one I think is critically
important in the theme of the Biden Administration in dealing
with equity issues. One of the goals of the 2014 Chesapeake
Watershed Agreement is to expand public access to the Bay and
its tributaries through existing and new local, State and
Federal parks, refuges, reserves, trails and partner sites.
Can you share with us how you would prioritize the
accessibility of outdoor space and the equity issues and so
many Americans today who would enjoy access but find it
difficult if not impossible to gain access?
Ms. Estenoz. Senator, thank you so much. Again, thank you
for the time you and your team spent with me this week. I
appreciated that so much.
Expanding public access to nature and public lands is a top
priority for the Administration, for the Secretary. If I am
confirmed, it will be a top priority for me. We have spent a
lot of time in the last 112 days talking about the programs we
have and that we can leverage, existing programs that we can
leverage to increase public access.
Our National Wildlife Refuge System is particularly
promising in terms of its accessibility to underserved
communities and the millions of Americans that live within a
60-minute drive, for example, of a National Wildlife Refuge and
looking for opportunities to help those folks get out to our
public lands.
The other very big opportunity we have is in the LWCF
Program. On Monday, we just announced the Outdoor Recreation
Legacy Competitive Grant Program of $115 million. We are so
grateful for the Congress' work to fully fund LWCF.
That program is specifically designed to help underserved
communities, rural communities, and urban communities increase
their access to parks and open space. It is one of the
initiatives that I am the most excited about. If I am
confirmed, it will be one of my top priorities.
Senator Cardin. I look forward to working with you on those
issues, because I think it is an area where we can make
significant progress and get greater support for the programs
of our national parks, refuges and just conservation.
Ms. Fox, I want to ask you one question. We had a chance
also to talk about the resiliency and stabilization funds that
were approved by the Senate, and the affordability issue. I
want to just, if I might, talk about water affordability.
It is extremely challenging for the ratepayers to have to
deal with what is necessary for clean, safe drinking water.
Senator Wicker and I have put into the bill passed by the
Senate a pilot program on water affordability that would be
implemented by the EPA. It would be a new program for you all
to implement.
Can you just tell us your willingness to take on this
responsibility if we get you the resources and authority?
Ms. Fox. Yes, thank you, Senator Cardin, for the question
and for the opportunity to visit with you earlier this week.
Absolutely, if confirmed, water affordability would be a
top priority for me. Senator Cardin, as we talked about earlier
this week, I have a long track record of working on water
affordability issues, because I really view affordability as
the flip side of the coin of making infrastructure investments.
What I saw working at a local water agency is we were always
balancing affordability with the timing, phasing and sequencing
of our infrastructure projects.
We would absolutely work at the EPA Office of Water to
design and quickly implement the affordability pilot program
that is in the Water Infrastructure bill that this committee
led the development of. I would draw on my experience, having
helped communities around the country in the design of their
water affordability programs. One of the things that I did when
I was at the U.S. Water Alliance was to establish something
called the Water Equity Network working with over 20 cities
around the Country on these very issues.
Finally, one of the things we have just started over the
last month at the Office of Water is a Water Affordability
Learning Exchange. What we are doing with that Learning
Exchange is creating an informal, ad hoc mechanism for our
team, the career leadership in the Office of Water, to
regularly engage with equity and environmental justice
organizations who are working on water affordability issues,
the water associations that represent both rural and urban
water utilities to really find lots and lots of common ground
on water affordability.
So you would have my absolute commitment, Senator Cardin.
Thank you for the question.
Senator Cardin. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Senator Inhofe. Mr. Chairman, a point of clarification. In
my haste to try to get everything done, I didn't get around to
the real question I was going to talk to you about, Ms.
Freedhoff. I will do that for the record, OK?
Ms. Freedhoff. Absolutely. Thank you.
Senator Inhofe. You bet.
Senator Kelly. Senator Cramer is recognized for 5 minutes.
Senator Cramer. Thank you, Senator Kelly. Thank you to all
of the witnesses for being here.
Ms. Estenoz, I am from North Dakota. We are a big prairie
pothole State, potholes and prairies everywhere. One of the
reasons we have so many potholes and so many wetlands is
because unlike many of the other prairie pothole region States,
our farmers did not drain when everyone else was draining.
Consequently, they have been punished for their good behavior
on a regular basis by I am sure well-intentioned bureaucrats
over the years.
There are a number of programs, but one I have been the
most frustrated with, that would be under your jurisdiction
should be confirmed, of course, is the waterfall production
areas. Those are these pre-1976 that fathers and grandfathers
and grandparents signed in difficult times with unclear maps
and not very good definitions.
I brought an example of what I think has been a real abuse
with the Fish and Wildlife Service. I have been very
frustrated.
There has been some work done that is beneficial like new
mapping. It has been very delayed but it is getting better. The
old maps are like on a napkin or an envelope drawn with a
pencil. I am only exaggerating slightly. Of course, we have
better technology today.
But here is one of the frustrations I want to point to in
this map. We have copies for you as well in case you don't get
a good view of this. This is literally a picture of land I
visited last year with the Director of the Fish and Wildlife
Service. This is an area that has a water production area
easement on it. One of the definitions for the easement from
pre-1976, in some of the language of the grant easement, it
says, ``protects large bodies of surface water including lakes
and ponds.''
Now, I am not a hydrologist. But I am pretty sure I can see
where the lakes and ponds are. Can you see where there are
lakes and ponds on this? Those would be wetlands in the
easement.
Now, here is the frustration. I am going to replace this
picture with the map that came from the Fish and Wildlife
Service identifying the wetlands for the easement contemporary.
We are going to flip that up so we can get it in the right
direction. In the upper right-hand corner is that same large
lake. As you can see, it is not assessed any acres for the
easement.
Now, why would that be? Well, the reason for that, in my
view, is because there is a cap of acres for the easement.
Whoever decided that wasn't a wetland decided this .15 spot
down there is a wetland. This dry spot of .14 acres is a
wetland. This dry spot of .49 acres is a wetland. All added up,
so that the dry land can be considered water for the easement
and not attribute any of the real water to the easement. This
is called taking. It has been a legal fact in my view, by the
Fish and Wildlife Service.
As I said, we have made some progress at least in the
mapping side. And we think we have made some progress on the
administrative side through an appeals process. Our farmers and
landowners have gotten their new maps. Not all of them are done
yet even though they were promised. This COVID thing happened
and a lot of people did not work for a long time.
At the same time, their appeals have fallen on deaf ears.
Not a single substantive appeal has been granted, not one,
including this, especially one that got to the--not a single
director's appeal. Now, I am talking about the previous
Administration.
I am hopeful that you, if confirmed and the others in the
Fish and Wildlife Service, the director, when that person is
nominated and confirmed, will take the time to come out and
hear frustrated farmers one more time who I will have to beg to
get there because they have no faith that the government is
going to look out for them.
This is what helps get the 12 percent conservation folks.
We have not even talked about WOTUS. We will do that later. But
this is where it gets to 12 percent, is taking a bunch of dry
land and calling it a wetland and ignoring the wetland. To get
to 30, people would starve, because there wouldn't be enough
cropland left. We have to take a realistic view of this. More
important than that is the fact that farmers own this land.
This is their land that is being taken.
I know I have been out of commission for a couple weeks. I
hope that you and I can get to know each other better. I would
love to bring you up to speed on all this and would love to
hear more.
Ms. Estenoz. Senator, if I may, thank you for this. I do
look forward to us getting to know one another and for the
opportunity to dig into this issue.
I do know and I am pleased to hear that you consider it to
be a step in the right direction, that there is an appeals
process that appears to be something that is working for the
Fish and Wildlife Service. I think that is good.
I obviously need to dig deeper and fully understand the
parameters of how we are delineating what is a wetland. I have
a lot of experience in wetlands being where I am from in south
Florida. It is an area of both the law and science I am
familiar with.
I thank you for the images. This is very helpful. If I am
confirmed, I pledge that I will be in close contact with you.
If I heard an invitation to come out to North Dakota, I would
very much like to take you up on that.
Senator Cramer. But they are skating rinks in February, so
we have to pick the time. It is very important when you come to
North Dakota.
With that, Mr. Chairman, there was a letter written to the
Acting Director from a number of organizations from North
Dakota. If you have not received it, we will make sure you get
it. I would ask unanimous consent to place it into the record.
Thank you.
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Senator Kelly. Thank you, Senator.
Joining via Webex is Senator Whitehouse, who is recognized
for 5 minutes.
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman Kelly.
First, let me welcome Ms. Estenoz, Ms. Fox and Dr.
Freedhoff. It is great to have you here in the committee with
us even if we are just here electronically.
For Ms. Fox and Dr. Freedhoff, I want to ask about the
problem of science in the last Administration which was
routinely ignored and even disparaged. That was done on a
repeated, consistent, systematic basis. I think any notion that
this was a coincidence or a fluke is living in a dream world.
I know that Administrator Regan has pledged to take a look
at all of that disparagement and violation of science. In the
conversation we had, it was clear to me he was going to look at
who, what, where, and when, but not at why things went wrong.
I would encourage you, if you are confirmed, to make sure
you are answering the question of why. Because if this was
systematic, we need to know who was behind it.
When January 6th happened, I pushed very hard on the
Department of Justice to make sure they were not just
challenging the people who came through the windows and doors
of the Capitol but looking upstream to who might have been
behind it, who might have been organizers or funders. I think
you need to have the same conversation with your employees.
My question to you is going to be one for the record
because I want you to have the chance to sit down and answer it
fully, and not under the pressure of my 5-minute limit.
That is, what is going to happen when people come forward
to disclose things that were done wrong at EPA in the past? Are
they going to be told, we are not interested, go away, we are
looking forward, not backward? Are they going to be told we are
not really interested, but why don't you go down to that
overworked inspector general? Maybe they will take an interest
there.
Are they going to be told, look, this really damaged an
important agency. We are taking this seriously, and here is our
system for dealing with your concerns. Here is who is going to
hear you out, here is how we are going to coordinate the
different stories we are hearing. Here is what our response
plan is to the predicament we have been left with.
I hope you can all answer that. I would appreciate very
much if you gave that some time and attention and answer those
questions for the record.
Ms. Estenoz, welcome. I am delighted that you are here. I
hope we can bring you up to Rhode Island to visit the park that
is going in along the Blackstone River. It is a slightly
unusual park because it is made up of lots of old historic
mills and parts of the early industrial revolution which were
joined together for power by the Blackstone River.
Now, it is very unusually--it does not have borders like a
lot of parks. It is like jewels strung along the string of the
Blackstone River. I hope very much that you will come and see
it and help us turn that into the facility that it really
should be. It has just gotten started.
I want to talk generally with you and put a flag up about
the problem of waters and coasts being overlooked. I am
thrilled that you are from the Everglades, so you know what a
coast is. You know what salt water is. I think that is great.
The Land and Water Conservation Fund, I have complained
about for years for its upland bias. In fact, I am filing
legislation to rename it the Upland and Freshwater Conservation
Fund, so that any pretense that it treats coasts and salt water
fairly is removed and we can set up a Coasts and Salt Water
Conservation Fund that can, I hope, stand on its own and have
the resources that upland and freshwater gets.
The Army Corps of Engineers has a flood program that is
just horrible for coasts compared to what it does for upland
and inland. The Department of the Interior is named Interior so
it is not exactly a coast facing agency.
Our coasts are seeing unprecedented hazards from sea level
rise, from warming of the seas, from upheaval in the biota in
the fisheries, and from really catastrophic storm risk. Rhode
Island is right in the target area for that. It is a very
coastal, ocean State.
I hope as you go about your responsibilities, you will make
sure that this long tradition of overlooking oceans and coasts
gets whittled back. We even saw it in the Biden infrastructure
plan, which is extremely weak on everything having to do with
oceans and coasts. It is like there is a missing section on
oceans and coasts.
I am going to be a persistent nag, I guess, of the Interior
Department to pay more attention to oceans and coasts. I just
wanted to lay the marker down right now, and if I have any time
left, to ask you for a quick response.
Ms. Estenoz. Yes, Senator, I am happy to respond to that.
When you are born on an island, it is all coast. My husband and
I have raised our family in Broward County, Florida, which
regularly experiences now several times a year what we call
sunny day flooding, which is essentially the ocean coming in
and occupying our streets.
The amount of work that needs to be done to build coastal
resilience is really, and from the Interior Department, the
equities that we have on the coasts are incredibly significant.
If I am confirmed, coastal restoration and coastal
resilience, these will be high priorities for me and in terms
of the Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Park Service.
An I look forward to visiting Rhode Island.
Senator Whitehouse. We will be in touch a lot. I welcome
you and thank you.
Ms. Estenoz. Thank you.
Senator Kelly. Thank you, Senator.
Now joining us also via Webex is Senator Lummis who is
recognized for 5 minutes.
Senator Lummis. Thank you very much.
Ms. Estenoz, you have an impressive career. It is very nice
to meet you by Zoom.
I take note of a statement in your testimony where you
said, ``As a State official, I was a customer of Fish and
Wildlife Service's regulatory programs and know firsthand what
it is like to be in the shoes of States trying to work with the
Federal Government.'' In your view, what is the role of States
in the context of the Endangered Species Act?
Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator. Thank you for that
question.
I think the States play an absolutely central role when it
comes to the Endangered Species Act, particularly when it comes
to species recovery and management. What we want is to recover
species. We want species not to need the protection of the
Endangered Species Act.
States have a tremendous amount of expertise on the ground
in species management. It has been my experience in my own
career that in the almost 25 years I was working in Florida,
the State of Florida was our strongest partner. The Florida
Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission was a tremendous
partner there.
I believe very strongly in partnerships with States and
really leveraging the expertise that we have in States.
Senator Lummis. I am delighted to hear you say that,
because one of the great success stories of the Endangered
Species Act since it was enacted is grizzly bears in the
Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service, in the Bush administration, the Obama administration,
and the Trump Administration all agreed that the Greater
Yellowstone ecosystem grizzly bear population has recovered and
should be delisted.
Ms. Estenoz, do you believe we should keep species on the
list that every scientist in the past three Administrations
agrees should be delisted, has recovered and management handed
back to the States?
Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator. I believe when species
meet the definition of delisting or down listing, then we
should delist or down list. The Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
grizzly population is doing very, very well. The grizzly is
listed as an entire lower 48 population.
But I want to say something specifically if I may about
predator recovery in particular. Species recovery is always
challenging. But I want to recognize that there are special
challenges when it comes to predator recovery, particularly for
folks on the ground who find themselves sharing the landscape
with a recovering predator species.
It is really important for folks to feel supported, and
listened to and that we have the right tools in the toolbox to
help folks live and exist with a recovering predator species.
State management and State expertise, as I said before, is
absolutely essential to this approach.
If I am confirmed, I will prioritize understanding and
working closely with States to recover all species and in
particular, predators.
Senator Lummis. Thanks so very much.
I am going to shift over to Ms. Freedhoff but if I get a
chance, I will come back to you.
My question is about chemicals that make benefits and
marvels of modern life possible. According to the Department of
Energy, more than 96 percent of all manufactured goods rely on
chemicals. One of the duties of the Office of Chemical Safety
and Pollution Prevention is to weigh the benefits and risks
associated with chemicals.
How do you intend to weigh those two things, both the
benefits and the risks of chemicals, before your office?
Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much for that question, Senator.
You are absolutely right. Both of the laws that serve as
the primary authority for the Office of Chemical Safety and
Pollution Prevention require the EPA to consider costs and
benefits and risks. For example, in TSCA, Congress actually
gave EPA the authority to exempt uses of chemicals if that use
is needed for an economically significant reason from our
rules. If confirmed, I intend to follow the law.
Senator Lummis. Thank you. Hopefully, I will get a chance
in round two to visit with you again.
Mr. Chair, I yield back.
Senator Kelly. Thank you.
Is Senator Markey here via Webex?
[No response.]
Senator Kelly. I will recognize myself for 5 minutes.
Ms. Fox, I want to get your thoughts on the Waters of the
United States or WOTUS rule. As you know, in June 2015, the
Obama administration finalized a new rule which expanded the
scope of waters protected by the Clean Water Act.
While I support efforts to reduce surface water
contamination, the way the 2015 WOTUS rule was written did not
work for Arizona and wound up defining irrigation ditches, dry
riverbeds and washes as waters of the United States when there
is no water.
While these rules were repealed last year, I understand the
EPA is considering reevaluating the WOTUS rules in the coming
months. As Assistant Administrator for Water, how will you
ensure the EPA takes into account the unique geographies of
desert southwestern States like Arizona?
Ms. Fox. Thank you for the question, Senator Kelly.
I think the example you just provided from Arizona is why,
if confirmed, I will do the work of the Office of Water based
on the wisdom, the experience, the practical implementation of
what these rules look like in communities around the Country.
To your question of how is it that we will consider the
very diverse ecosystems, the topography and geography when it
relates to water, one of the things Administrator Regan has
really directed us to do is to have robust stakeholder
engagement around understanding both how 2015 was implemented
and how the 2020 rule is currently being implemented.
One of the things we plan to do is initiate listening
sessions this summer. Then in the fall, what we have been
talking with the Army Corps, who jointly developed the WOTUS
rule, as you know, with EPA, that we will be doing regional
roundtables. Really, Senator Kelly, the reason we want to do
these regional roundtables is we recognize that when we create
a national definition like Waters of the U.S., it looks
different. I am still living in California, so I share the arid
State concerns that you have in Arizona. It looks different
there than it does in the Great Lakes or in the southeast.
We will be having these regional conversations to really
better understand the very concerns you have raised.
Senator Kelly. Thank you, Ms. Fox. I look forward to
helping us come up with a good list of stakeholders in the
State of Arizona for the summer and fall.
Dr. Freedhoff, I want to discuss, for our remaining time
here, EPA regulatory actions with regard to semiconductor
production in the United States.
As you know, in January, the EPA issued five final rules
under TSCA for certain chemicals that are persistent,
bioaccumulative, and toxic. One rule was for phenol, phenol
isopropylated phosphate 3:1, which is a chemical widely used in
semiconductor manufacturing. After hearing belated concerns
from industry, I appreciate that the EPA has reopened the
comment period and provided a no action assurance and hope that
semiconductor producers fully take advantage of this additional
time to help shape the final rule.
As the Senate prepares to consider efforts to promote
additional semiconductor manufacturing in the U.S., has EPA
engaged with the Department of Commerce to discuss ways to
provide regulatory stability under TSCA for the semiconductor
industry?
Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much for that question, Senator.
I appreciated talking to you about that issue when we met
privately.
As you pointed out, those five rules were finalized by the
last Administration. Honestly, the last Administration, from a
process perspective, did nothing wrong when it finalized those
rules because they asked for public comment, they reached out
to stakeholders and really tried very hard to get the input of
the regulated companies that would be subject to it.
As you said, when we started hearing from your constituents
and many, many other companies across the Country with their
concerns, that they hadn't really realized the implications of
these rules on their business, we did take quick action to give
them some more time and flexibility to give us the information
we need. We really do encourage them and other industry sectors
to bring us that information, because I know the EPA career
staff wants to address all of the valid concerns that have been
raised about those rules.
In terms of what you are asking about interagency
coordination, there is actually a TSCA Interagency Coordinating
Group. That group consists of representatives from many
different agencies, including the Department of Commerce, the
Department of Defense, NASA, the Small Business Administration,
and many others as well. Our career scientists meet with them
on a regular basis. I think it is more frequently than once a
month. Sometimes it is weekly, depending on what we are doing.
We do that because we really have a strong interest in
understanding what other agencies feel their needs are as we
move forward with regulatory actions.
Senator Kelly. Thank you, Dr. Freedhoff. My time is
expired.
I will now recognize Senator Ernst for 5 minutes.
Senator Ernst. Thank you very much. I welcome our witnesses
here today, and look forward to our discussion.
Ms. Fox, I will start with you, please. I am going to take
what Senator Kelly was talking about, with the 2015 WOTUS Rule,
and just add a little bit to that. Because as you see, there is
a bipartisan disagreement with the 2015 rule that was put into
place.
I adamantly was opposed to what we saw under the Obama
administration in 2015. It was very damaging to the State of
Iowa. What we saw with that rule and the way it was defined,
those new Waters of the U.S. then allowed the Federal
Government, or would have allowed the Federal Government to
regulate 97 percent of Iowa's land. Not just water, but land.
So I know that we talked about stakeholders, and I am
really glad to hear you say that. Because many of my
constituents felt that their concerns were ignored during the
2015 WOTUS rulemaking process. And in 2014, the Obama
administration's very own SBA Office of Advocacy submitted
comments to the EPA and Army Corps of Engineers, arguing that
the agencies hadn't conformed to the Regulatory Flexibility
Act's requirements that small business concerns be considered.
So you have mentioned you want to bring stakeholders to the
table. What will you do specifically to ensure that the
concerns of all of these impacted stakeholders, especially as
you look at States across the Midwest, maybe in California,
those that are in agriculture, those concerns are addressed in
the event that a new definition is proposed?
Ms. Fox. Thank you for the question, Senator. One thing I
will say is that in my former role as the CEO of the U.S. Water
Alliance, I had the opportunity to send quite a lot of time in
Iowa. We had our One Water Summit every year, and Iowa brought
the biggest delegation of farmers and water utilities and
business leaders.
When I hosted something called the One Water for American
listening sessions, we went to Iowa to hear about really the
tremendous innovation that is happening on both water quality
and farm profitability, because we saw municipalities and
farmers working upstream, downstream. In fact, last year,
during my final year at the U.S. Water Alliance, we awarded the
Iowa Soybean Association the U.S. Water Prize because I truly
believe that it is through collaboration and partnership that
we will get the work of protecting our Nation's waters and
protecting our agricultural productivity at the same time.
So what I commit to, if confirmed, is, I want us to find an
enduring definition of Waters of the U.S. That is what
Administrator Regan wants. We don't want to see this ping-pong
any more. For our career staff at EPA, they have written three
rules in 6 years. That seems crazy to me.
So what we are very committed to, Administrator Regan and
I, is to understand the implementation challenges of both rules
in communities around the Country and to work with folks like
you, your constituents, to get to something that is enduring.
We would love to have a definition that does not shift as
administrations shift. I would love to have the opportunity to
work very closely with you to make that happen, if confirmed.
Senator Ernst. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I do hope
that we can move on to a definition that would be enduring. I
think absolutely you are correct there. But we have a lot of
different States with a lot of different needs. The nexus
really does have to be water, not a bunch of land surrounding
an intermittent stream, or whatever it might be. But it needs
to be about water.
So I do have a question about WOTUS and the 30 by 30. I am
not sure what agency is actually going to be in charge of the
30 by 30 rule that is being proposed by President Biden. Is
that the EPA, is it USDA? Do you happen to know?
Ms. Fox. I can find out and get back to you.
Senator Ernst. OK. Because this plan has been proposed, but
nobody really knows who is going to administer this, and we
have no idea how we arrive at putting 30 percent of America's
lands in a protected status. I talked to Secretary Vilsack, we
had an informal question session with him a few weeks ago. He
told my senior Senator, Chuck Grassley, oh, we are going to get
this done by using CRP. Well, I don't see how that works. CRP
is for vulnerable lands. Not every State farms. So I am not
sure. I guess maybe he just wants to take it away from those of
us that farm.
Does the Biden Administration plan to use----
Senator Carper.
[Presiding] Senator, your time is expired. Go ahead and ask
this question but then we will have to go to Senator Padilla.
Senator Ernst. OK, thank you, Mr. Chair. So we will take
this for the record. But we just want to know about the
definition of WOTUS and how it ties into the 30 by 30. Because
what we are concerned about in Iowa is that the Federal
Government starts using expanded definitions and rules that
then to take away land, productive land from farmers, and put
it in a protected status, we do not want to see that. I think
that is Federal Government overreach. I will send the question
to you and we will do it for the record.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Would you like to respond just briefly to
that question? Maybe you can do more in writing later on, but
anything you want to say right now, you are welcome to.
Ms. Fox. I am happy to answer that question for the record.
But I think, Senator Ernst, one thing that is going to guide
the work of the Office of Water if confirmed is we have to
balance all of these interests of water quality, ensuring the
profitability of our farmers who feed the Nation, they feed the
world.
So we have to balance those things. What you can count on
me if confirmed as the AA for Water is that I will always
listen to your constituents, I will hear them out. And as I
make decisions, I will always look back with you and them. I
really think that through partnership, through collaboration
and through really transparent decisionmaking, that is what is
going to be best for the people of this Country. You have my
commitment on that.
Senator Ernst. Yes, thank you. And I appreciate the
commitment.
Senator Carper. Senator Ernst, sometimes I ask people who
have been married a long time, what is the secret to being
married a long time. As you might imagine, I get hilarious
answers, and I actually write them down and use them from time
to time for comic relief. One of my favorite answers, though,
is communicate and compromise. Communicate and compromise. That
is also the secret to a vibrant democracy. I would add a third
C, and that would be collaboration. Communicate, compromise,
collaboration. I think that is what we are hearing both of you
talk about today. I welcome that. Thanks for joining us.
All right, Dr. Padilla, Dr. Senator Padilla, I know you are
out there somewhere. You are recognized next. And if we don't
have anybody else intervene, then Senator Cramer would be after
you. Senator Padilla, please.
Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. For the record, I am
not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV.
I have a couple of questions and topics I would like to
raise with Ms. Estenoz regarding the National Park System. We
know it is a source of pride for so many Americans. Our
national parks boast not just stunning scenery and our national
monuments and historical parks, but it helps tell the story of
our Country.
However, the stories told by our park system don't
completely paint the full mosaic of America, nor does it
adequately preserve the full culture and legacy of all
Americans. We have a lot of work to do to diversify our
national parks and monuments. Too few sites focus on the
experience of the Black, Asian, and Native Americans, or teach
us about our Latino heritage. And we don't have enough parks
and monuments proudly dedicated to the contributions of the
LGBTQ community and not nearly enough sites that celebrate the
contributions of women to our Nation's history.
I wonder if you can talk for a minute about how you would
work with the Biden Administration to ensure that the National
Park Service sites better tell America's rich and diverse
history?
Ms. Estenoz. Thank you so much, Senator, for that question.
This is an incredibly important priority for the Administration
and for the Secretary.
The National Park Service, in many ways, is our
government's preeminent experts on the power of place and how
important places can be in our effort to tell a story. You are
right, I agree 100 percent, as does the Secretary, that the
range of stories that we tell isn't broad enough. It doesn't
tell the full, rich story of America. And it is an absolutely
high priority for us to fix that problem, and to think of our
national park sites, which some of them are parks, but they are
also historic and scenic trails. We have historic sites, we
have national seashores. There are a rich diversity of stories
to be told at most of those sites.
So if I am confirmed, this will be a top priority for me,
it is a top priority for the Secretary. This includes telling
the rich story of our indigenous communities, and revitalizing
our commitment to telling the stories of tribal nations and
involving them in weaving those stories and sharing them with
visitors to our national park sites. I very much appreciate the
question.
Senator Padilla. Thank you. I look forward to working with
you and the Administration on that in the years ahead.
Next question is a topic that was raised earlier about
access to outdoor spaces. I want to dig a little bit deeper. As
you know, too many children, especially in communities of
color, grow up without access to outdoor spaces. Nationwide,
three-quarters of people of color live in nature-deprived
communities.
Los Angeles County, not just my home State, but my home
county, is one of the most densely populated regions in the
Country. It has one of the lowest rates of park access. It has
3.3 acres of park space per 1,000 residents, half as much as
other high-density areas.
The COVID pandemic has showed us how important access to
outdoors is, and that our local parks can bring just as many
mental and physical and educational benefits to residents as a
national park. So I want to thank you for your work in helping
to rescind President Trump's Secretarial Order 3388 and
reinstating funding for the Outdoor Recreation Legacy
Partnership Program, which helps fund the parks for urban
communities. I would encourage the Administration to go big and
include a robust funding request for this program in the next
Fiscal Year budget.
Again, I know it was brought up earlier in the hearing, but
if you want to speak for a few more minutes on how you would
approach the work to ensure more urban communities in
particular can access quality green spaces.
Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator. Again, this is a part of a
similar issue. Equal access to nature, the year that we have
been through as a Nation is perfect evidence of how important
it is for folks to have access to outdoor spaces. So many
Americans this year have taken refuge in the parks in their
neighborhoods and their communities. For folk who don't have
access to those areas, it has been that much harder to cope
with the year that we have lived through.
As I mentioned earlier, we just 2 days ago announced $150
million investment in the ORLP program. This is the largest
investment. It is a competitive grant program. One of the
things that is a high priority for us is to ensure that
communities have the opportunity to actually compete for those
dollars.
So we are working hard internally to ensure that we are
promoting the program, that we are offering our technical
assistance to folks who want to try to participate in that
program. Now that the Congress has invested in full funding of
the LWCF, that is an absolute game changer for communities who
need and deserve greater access to the outdoors in their lives
and in their communities.
Senator Padilla. Thank you for that. Again, I look forward
to working with you on this in the years ahead.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Senator Carper. Senator Padilla, thanks so much for joining
us today, and for those questions.
Senator Cramer is back for a second round. I think Senator
Markey is trying to join us. The vote starts in the Senate, we
have two votes, they are going to start the first one in about
three or 4 minutes. But we have some time.
Senator Cramer.
Senator Cramer. Thanks you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks again to
all of you.
Ms. Fox, as I mentioned during the first round, I wanted to
get to WOTUS. You have answered a lot of WOTUS questions since
I have been here, and you have done very well with them. So I
am just going to add my illustration and ask some pretty simple
questions.
Last Congress, in this committee we did hold a hearing on
the Trump WOTUS rule. One of the witnesses was the North Dakota
Commissioner of Agriculture, Doug Goehring. Doug testified,
``The most fundamental management practice in agriculture is
effective water management, either to retain, conserve, or
convey. An overly rigid, one size fits all Federal intervention
and regulatory oversight is not reasonable, not workable and
not appropriate.''
Now, Administrator Regan, whose nomination I supported in
this committee, and on the floor, has said the EPA is going to
rewrite the regulation again, but not as the Obama
administration did in 2015. You have echoed that sentiment a
couple of times. I like consistency within an Administration,
Mr. Chairman.
North Dakota successfully litigated against the 2015
regulation, which would have laid claim to over 80 percent of
our land mass with its 4,000-foot buffer. In 2006, if we are
looking for a definition, I think Justice Scalia got it exactly
right in his majority opinion when he set the standard for
continuous surface water connection to relatively permanent
bodies of water. There was a little vagueness in a few of those
words, but nevertheless, I think it is a pretty good starting
point.
So with that in mind, I want to refer to this map of North
Dakota, just to help people understand. We literally are,
people always say they are something, we really are the center
of the North American continent. There is a monument in Rugby,
North Dakota, that says, this is the center of the North
American continent.
We are prairies, we are badlands. Theodore Roosevelt
National Park, the only national park named after a person,
place matters, right? This is where his ranches are. Right out
here in the badlands, limestone, sandstone, cactus, badlands.
This map illustrates what would fall under Waters of the
U.S. definition of navigable waters. Now, I have a pontoon, I
live on a bay of the Missouri River. If I can't drive my
pontoon on it, I know it is not navigable, right? But this is a
whole bunch of stuff that you couldn't drive a pontoon on.
So anyway, obviously WOTUS is at the heart of agriculture,
as you have been hearing from others. It is very near and dear
to North Dakotans. We want to get it right.
So I am just going to ask you some really basic things.
First of all, and I think you testified to this. But they
didn't get it right in 2015. Do you think they got it right in
2015?
Ms. Fox. Senator, it sounds like, first of all, that
Shannon and I need to do a joint trip together so that we can
understand the two very original challenges. So maybe we can do
that.
Senator Cramer. That would be fun, yes. The Administrator
promised to do it too, but you can either come with him or at
another time.
Ms. Fox. Senator Cramer, again, we all want an enduring
rule. I think we want an enduring definition that is national,
but really can address the particular local circumstances of
water. As we know, water is also changing rapidly, the Great
Lakes are warming, parts of California and Arizona are drying
very rapidly.
So how do we create a rule that can withstand the test of
time and respect the local needs? That is really what
Administrator Regan wants, that is what he has directed me to
do, that is what I want to do. I want to get it right, and I
want to get it right with all of you.
So I hope you will help us with that.
Senator Cramer. You raise a really good point. Both you and
the Administrator I think bring some very valuable experience.
He as a State regulator, you as somebody who has been in a
regulated industry, although not agriculture, but again, WOTUS
was clearly important.
That is what gives me hope, as well as your willingness to
talk, to collaborate, to communicate. We have lots of Cs that
work: Carper, Capito, Cardin, Cramer, there are lots of C words
that work.
Ms. Fox. And Cramer.
Senator Cramer. And Cramer. So I look forward to that. I
really do. I am an eternally optimistic person, Mr. Chairman.
So you are invited, you are welcome. You can leave the
Administrator at home or bring him with you if you want, but he
is coming at some point. You raised an important point, and
this would have been relevant to the previous discussion, that
changing, that has been going on for centuries. That is part of
why North Dakota farmers didn't drain. They moved with the
water. They farmed when it was dry, if it was wet over here,
then the next year they farmed over here, because they valued
having that water around them. They were naturally
conservationists. But they reject the notion that the Federal
Government is going to tell them how to do it if not a partner.
With that, thank you both. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Thank you, Dr. Cramer.
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. We can never have too many Cs.
There is a good spirit here. I hope this is a good spirit
that we can continue to embrace as we go forward and address
some thorny issues and really important issues for all
different parts of our Country.
I would like to come back to you, Ms. Estenoz. I have a
question. And I think senator Markey is trying to get here. I
won't stretch it out too long, but we will make sure he has a
chance at a second shot here.
Ms. Estenoz, our committee has spent considerable time in
recent years, I have been on this committee for 20 years, I
love this committee. I feel so fortunate to serve on it.
In recent years we have deliberated matters involving the
Endangered Species Act. While the Endangered Species Act is one
of our Nation's most popular and successful environmental laws,
it is not without controversy, as you know. That said, I
believe we can all agree more than we disagree when it comes to
preserving and when it comes to implementing this bedrock law.
My question, Ms. Estenoz, is, is in your opinion, how can
the Department of Interior best foster collaboration, one of
those Cs, versus conflict, another C, when it comes to the
Endangered Species Act?
Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that question. I
think it is such an important one. Because we have talked a
little bit with some of the other questions and some of the
other discussion earlier about how important recovery is in the
Endangered Species Act, as an ultimate driver of what we want
to try to do. There is a whole movement regarding conservation
without conflict, and moving past conflict to cooperation and
collaboration, just to keep the C theme going here. In my
experience in Florida, that is when we have gotten the most
done, even when we are dealing with listed species, even when
we are dealing with species that are on the brink.
And we have a couple, we have a couple in Florida. We have
many, too many, in our Country. We have some 12,000 species
that need conservation assistance to avoid extinction. That is
too many.
I think everyone would think that is too many. I don't
think that is a particularly controversial statement.
We are not going to recover those species or improvement
their conservation status unless we can work together. As I
said earlier, some of the strongest expertise when it comes to
specific species management, it is on the ground, it is the
folks who are closest to those species, and it is incumbent
upon Fish and Wildlife Service.
Frankly, I think we do a good job integrating our work,
particularly through, for example, the Association of Fish and
Wildlife Agencies throughout the Country. There are
tremendously strong relationships among the people on the
ground there. It is really great to watch. We need to empower
those relationships and those partnerships.
If I am confirmed, it will be my job to support them and to
encourage that collaboration and if I am confirmed, I will
pledge to do just that.
Senator Carper. All right.
As we wait for Senator Markey, I want each of you to take a
minute and talk to us about your top priorities, one or two top
priorities. We have heard from you about some of the pressing
issues that face our Nation and the roles that you will be
playing. But I would like to, before we finish up, to get your
perspective on some additional matters that you expect to
address once you take office. Just mention for us briefly a
couple of your top priorities.
Dr. Freedhoff, I am going to ask you to start out. Just
talk about some of your top priorities briefly.
Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman. I would say
No. 1 is really implementing TSCA and recognizing that when
that law was enacted, everyone, environmental organizations,
industry groups, Republicans, Democrats, everyone wanted EPA to
have the authority that it needed to protect families and
workers all across this Country from unsafe chemicals. So
getting that program off the ground and starting to write some
of those protected chemical safety rules is one of my first
priorities.
Second, I would say it is about trust. I think in the past
4 years, there was a lot of fantastic science that went on in
the agency, but there were also some examples of times when the
scientists were told to change their conclusions or exclude
data or when people raised concerns were kicked out of meetings
and told that they couldn't work on those things anymore. I
think as a result, some of those decisions, again, not
everything that happened in the last 4 years, but as a result
of some of those decisions, when EPA says that a chemical or a
pesticide can be used safely, sometimes people don't trust us.
I think the public needs to trust us. That is not just good
for the environment and for human health, I think it is also
really important that the public has confidence in the products
that companies make. And when we say the chemicals that they
use are safe, they really are.
So I think working to restore trust in what the agency says
about the safety of chemicals and pesticides is one of my other
top priorities that I hope to work on if confirmed.
Senator Carper. Thank you for that, very much.
Your daughters are sitting behind you over you left
shoulder. The former chairman of this committee was a fellow
from Wyoming, John Barrasso. He still serves in the Senate, but
not in this committee. He and I love music, and we used to like
to interplay musical lyrics when appropriate with the comments
that we make from the dais.
One of the songs we liked to quote was by a one-hit wonder
named Thomas Dolby, She Blinded Me With Science. Some of you
may remember that song, a great song. We don't need to be
blinded by science; we need to be guided by science. I think we
have in the witnesses here before us today adherence to that
principles. I like to think we have on this committee and in
the new Administration a real strong desire to be guided by
science. Thank you for that.
Top priority, Ms. Fox, please.
Ms. Fox. Thank you, Senator. I had a chance to talk a
little bit earlier about some of the priorities around
implementing our infrastructure programs well, PFAS,
affordability. I want to add a couple. One is, and to really
build on Lee Howell's point, and this is something that talk
about quite often, is really the tremendous career staff that
exists across all of the offices at EPA.
I think one of my internal priorities is really around
supporting them, building their morale. We have a big agenda
when it comes to water. They have decades and decades of
experience. So that will be a big internal priority.
Another internal priority that I have if confirmed goes
back to what Senator Whitehouse said earlier around science.
One of the first things that I did was meet with our scientific
integrity official. I got briefed on concerns that had been
raised around scientific integrity over the previous
administration. I issued a memo to the entire Office of Water
to say, if there are every concerns around scientific integrity
there will always be an open door policy.
So I think in addition to pursuing the big water agenda
that President Biden and Vice President Harris has laid out for
us to also do the internal work, so that we have a strong,
productive work force that is value and respected for all of
their contributions. That would be another big priority of
mine.
Senator Carper. All right. Thank you, Ms. Fox.
Ms. Estenoz.
Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
My priorities roughly fall into three categories. Sticking
with our alliteration theme, they are policy, program, and
people. I too am a music fan, and Stephen Stills is very
important to me.
Senator Carper. Something's Happening Here.
Ms. Estenoz. Something is happening here, indeed. So my
policy priorities are the President's and the Secretary's
policy priorities. So if I am confirmed, my job will be to help
the National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service
contribute to our efforts to tackle climate change, our efforts
to increase equal access to nature, to tell all of America's
stories, to recommit ourselves to our government-to-government
trust responsibility to tribes, and to build back better by
investing in our infrastructure and our public lands, our
coastal resilience, so many of the issues that we have heard
today.
Programmatically, I think right off the bat my priority is
going to be the implementation of the Great American Outdoors
Act and the fully funded Land and Water Conservation Fund, a
huge responsibility.
Senator Carper. That should be a lot of fun.
Ms. Estenoz. I am already having fun and looking forward to
more. The commitment that the Congress made last year, I and so
many Americans are so grateful for it. It is really now our job
to make sure that we squeeze every ounce of value out of every
single dollar and we get it on the landscape, working for the
American people.
Speaking of people, my other priority is supporting our
career work force. Our people have had a rough year, just like
every other American has had a rough year. The National Park
Service is facing what could be one of the busiest summers for
our national parks and national wildlife refuges in the history
of those services.
So part of my priority will be to ensure that they feel
supported and that they have the tools that they need to
welcome America back to our public lands over the next year, as
we come out of this COVID crisis and take refuge in the
beautiful places that the services that I have the pleasure of
working with are responsible for. So thank you so much for the
question, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Senator Markey I am told is on his way. I
don't want to disappoint him by leaving him an empty room.
Hopefully, he will make it soon.
While we are waiting for another minute or two, there is
question I like to ask sometime when we have time. Is there a
question you wish you would have been asked that you have not
been asked by anyone on this panel? We will start with Dr.
Freedhoff, is there a question you wish you had been asked, but
you didn't get it?
Ms. Freedhoff. I am sorry, Senator, you wanted to know what
question----
Senator Carper. Yes, what is a question you would like to
have been asked that no one has asked you?
Ms. Freedhoff. I would like to have been asked how the
agency responded to COVID. The reason for that is because my
part of the agency literally dropped everything in order to
respond to the virus. About 100 of our career scientists
stopped what they were doing and focused all their efforts onto
approving about 550 different disinfectants that were certified
as effective against COVID, and also helped support the
agency's efforts to crack down on fraudulent claims made by
companies about COVID products.
They really rose to the challenge and met it. It was very
important for both the Country and the agency that they did so.
Senator Carper. Thank you. Next time, we will ask that
question. Senator Markey has joined us. Senator.
Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I apologize to
you.
Senator Carper. Glad you could make it.
Senator Markey. We are still in the midst of the Commerce
Committee markup. We used to say in Boston, Wednesdays are
Prince Spaghetti Day. Now we just say, Wednesday is a day when
every committee meets simultaneously. And you can be
omniscient, but you cannot be ubiquitous. So I apologize to you
for not being here.
Dr. Freedhoff, back in 2016, you worked with me on the
issue of PCBs which contaminate as many as 25,000 schools
across the Country despite being banned by the EPA in 1979.
Students should be learning their ABCs, not their PCBs. That is
still a situation in the Country right now.
So I am planning on reintroducing the Get Toxic Substances
Out of Schools Act, which would reauthorize and expand Title 5
of TSCA to help schools remove PCBs and other toxic substances.
Are you going to be working on that issue? I would love to
partner with you in moving legislation that could give you more
power to deal with that issue.
Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much, Senator Markey. I
appreciated talking to you about this as well, earlier in the
week. It is funny, one of the first calls that I had with our
acting regional administrators, it was just an opportunity to
get to know them all. More than half of them, I would say, from
all across the Country, raised this very issue with me. Because
you are absolutely right, it is not just PCBs, it is asbestos
and it is other toxic substances as well.
The challenge that they really face is that as these
schools age, the PCBs and the asbestos are released, and
actually have in the past exposed both teachers and students. A
lot of time also these schools are in economically and
otherwise underserved communities that are also at risk of
other environmental exposures in dipropionate ways compared to
other communities.
So I think there is great interest at the agency in working
with you on this. I look forward to it.
Senator Markey. Thank you. I appreciate it.
And you know, there is kind of a way of looking at these
environmental issues which says, oh, my goodness, they are so
expensive, they are going to create real problems in our
society if we really try to remediate it. But the other side of
the coin is, it is a job creator for construction, painting,
and other occupations that will have to go in and do this work.
Can you talk about that a little bit?
Ms. Freedhoff. Yes, I think you are absolutely right,
Senator, to raise that. I would add additionally on that, a lot
of State budgets are probably pretty challenged because of what
they have gone through in the past year on COVID. I actually
think that a lot of schools that might have been otherwise
slated for remodeling or reconstruction are going to have to
wait a lot longer, because of the challenges to State budgets.
So I sort of see it as a win-win-win. It is a win for the
environment, it is a win for jobs, and it is a win for the
children and the teachers who are in those schools every day.
Senator Markey. Yes. I thank you for that.
In terms of using this funding that is going to be at the
EPA and under your leadership to quickly evaluate dangerous
chemicals, you may have already answered the question, but
could you talk about that, how you are going to try to
telescope the timeframe to deal with these issues under the
constraints that exist statutorily?
Dr. Freedhoff. I think that was one of the provisions that
you cared the most about, as I recall, is making sure that the
chemicals that EPA already knew they had concerns about were
moved along at a faster timeframe. So what we are doing right
now is we are taking sort of a forensic look back at the first
10 risk evaluations that were completed in the last
Administration. Our objective is to move as many of them as
possible into rulemaking as quickly as we can.
There may be times when we have to supplement some of them
in order to make sure that the rules that flow from them are as
protective and legally defensible as they need to be. But
really, our focus is on giving Americans the chemical safety
protections that everyone expected EPA to provide.
Senator Markey. So as you are looking back at the previous
Administration, there are flaws in the methodology which was
used by the preceding Administration. And of course, our goal
is to make sure that families are not exposed to asbestos, are
not exposed to other dangerous chemicals. So how are we going
to fix those flawed chemical risk evaluations completed by the
previous Administration to ensure that they account for legacy
exposures and use the best available science?
Ms. Freedhoff. Well, the court, on legacy exposures there
was actually a court decision telling the agency that the law
clearly expected the agency to consider legacy exposures. That
was about the asbestos risk evaluation, and the agency is
certainly going to abide by that court decision.
But more generally, I think the expectation in TSCA was the
EPA would study the chemicals comprehensively. That means
knowing whether people are getting exposed from the air, from
the water, from the disposal of those chemicals.
So what we are doing now is we are going through those
first 10 pretty intensively. But we also recognize that the
point of TSCA was to write chemical safety rules that were
protective. So what we want to do is move past the risk
evaluation phase and into the protection phase of our activity
just as quickly as we can.
Senator Markey. So when I entered Congress, I had Chelsea,
which was the poorest and most vulnerable community in New
England, had huge exposure to lead. That was like the first
project that I worked on, again, poorest community in New
England. We saw during the Coronavirus pandemic that Chelsea
has extremely high asthma rates, and as a result, it made them
more vulnerable to the Coronavirus.
When we were working together on Woburn and the toxic site
in Woburn, that goes back to the 1970's when the EPA and other
agencies were just turning a blind eye, which ultimately led to
the creation of the Superfund law, which I was proud to be a
part of in 1981, in getting that law on the books.
Senator Carper. Senator Markey, your time is expired. We
will run into overtime and we are running out of time on the
floor. So if you want to wrap it up really quickly.
Senator Markey. I will wrap up quickly. Environmental
justice, Dr. Freedhoff, how can we ensure that it is built into
every single part of the activities taken by this
Administration?
Ms. Freedhoff. I appreciate the question. You know what?
Congress told us to study potentially exposed and susceptible
subpopulations. We have to consider those subpopulations every
time we study a chemical. I do think we could be doing more
with that authority than has been done in the past
Administration.
I think one thing we are really focused on now with those
first 10 is really looking at whether there are fence-line
communities, communities that have been disproportionately
exposed to pollution from chemical companies and other things,
and seeing whether there is more that we need to do to
supplement those risk evaluations as we move to rulemaking.
Senator Markey. You are going to do a great job. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Senator Markey, I would ask you just to
stay in the room for another minute before you go, and I will
go with you.
Let me just close by saying how pleased I am, in talking to
my colleagues as they come and go. Almost without exception the
comments are just, you have really won the hearts of your moms
and dads and maybe even your daughters. Very, very good job. We
have been fortunate to hear from three outstanding nominees for
critical roles in the Environmental Protection Agency in the
Department of Interior. You are experienced, you are
intelligent, and you are committed public servants.
I want to close by thanking you all once again for your
willingness to share your wisdom, your expertise, and inclusive
instincts with our Nation. And 3 days after Mother's Day, our
thanks to the moms that brought you into the room, and maybe
your dads and husbands might be sharing you with us, your
children, sharing you with all of us.
I would like to ask unanimous consent to submit for the
record a variety of materials, including letters from
stakeholders and other materials that relate to today's
nomination hearing. Without objection.
[The referenced information follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Carper. Senators will be allowed to submit
questions for the record through close of business on Friday,
this Friday, May 14th. We will compile those questions, send
them to our witnesses, and ask our witnesses to reply to us by
Wednesday, May the 19th. If you could do that, that would be
very helpful.
With that, it is a wrap. We thank you all again. The
hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:23 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
[all]