    [Senate Hearing 117-41]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                             S. Hrg. 117-41

    HEARING ON THE NOMINATIONS OF SHANNON ESTENOZ TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY
     OF FISH AND WILDLIFE AND PARKS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR, RADHIKA
       FOX TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR FOR WATER OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL
     PROTECTION AGENCY, AND MICHAL FREEDHOFF TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR
       FOR CHEMICAL SAFETY AND POLLUTION PREVENTION OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL
                               PROTECTION AGENCY

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                                  MAY 12, 2021

                                   __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                  __________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    45-118 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                   COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                      THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
    BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
    BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont                 Virginia
    SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island         Ranking Member
    JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
    EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts      KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
    TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois            CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
    DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama
    MARK KELLY, Arizona                  JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
    ALEX PADILLA, California             ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
                                         DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
                                         JONI ERNST, Iowa
                                         LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina

                 Mary Frances Repko, Democratic Staff Director
                   Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                                  MAY 12, 2021
                               OPENING STATEMENTS

    Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware..     1
    Capito, Hon. Shelly More, U.S. Senator from the State of West
      Virginia.......................................................     4

                                   WITNESSES

    Estenoz,Shannon, Nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Fish and
      Wildlife and Parks of The Department of Interior...............     8
        Prepared statement...........................................    11
        Responses to additional questions from:
            Senator Kelly............................................    14
            Senator Capito...........................................    16
            Senator Boozman..........................................    22
            Senator Wicker...........................................    22
    Fox, Radhika, Nominee to be Assistant Administrator for Water of
      the Environmental Protection Agency............................    25
    Prepared statement...............................................    27
        Responses to additional questions from:
            Senator Kelly............................................    30
            Senator Capito...........................................    32
            Senator Sullivan.........................................    36
            Senator Ernst............................................    37
    Freedhoff, Michal, Nominee to be Assistant Administrator for
      Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention of the Environmental
      Protection Agency..............................................    38
        Prepared statement...........................................    40
        Responses to additional questions from:
            Senator Kelly............................................    43
            Senator Capito...........................................    44
            Senator Inhofe...........................................    51
            Senator Cramer...........................................    53
            Senator Lummis...........................................    55
            Senator Boozman..........................................    56
            Senator Wicker...........................................    62
            Senator Ernst............................................    63

                              ADDITIONAL MATERIAL

    Letter from the office of Chemical Safety and Polution...........    69
    Letters of Support for Radhadi Fox from Waterkeepers Chesapeake,
      Moonshot Missions, and South Easterners Royal Community
      Assistance Project.............................................    74
    Letter to Acting Director from a number of organizations from
      North Dakota...................................................    82
    Article from Florida Phoenix to Shannon Estenoz..................   110
    Letters of support of the nomination of Shannon Estenoz:
        43 undersigned organizations.................................   119
        Captains for Clean Water.....................................   121
        The National Park Hospitality Association....................   123
        The National Audubon Society.................................   124
        Bonefish and Tarpon Trust (BTT)..............................   125
        Hunters, anglers, outdoor enthusiasts, and land stewards.....   127
        National Parks Conservation Association (NPCA)...............   129
        Outdoor Recreation Roundtable (ORR)..........................   131
        Senator Marco Rubio..........................................   133
        The Corps Network............................................   134
    Letters of support of the nomination of Radhika Fox:
        Association of Equipment Manufacturers (AEM).................   135
        Alexandria RENEW Enterprise..................................   136
        American Flood Coalition.....................................   137
        American Water Works Association.............................   138
        American Water Works Association Rocky Mountain Section......   139
        American Water Works Associatioin California-Nevada Section..   140
        Association of Regional Water Organizations..................   141
        Black & Veatch Corporation...................................   142
        Bowman Environmental Consulting..............................   143
        Chamber of Commerce of the United States of America..........   144
        Children's Environmental Health Network......................   145
        Nav Otal, Utilities Director, City of Believue...............   146
        Clean Water Action...........................................   148
        Undersigned members and partners of the Clean Water for All
          Coalition..................................................   149
        Mount Pleasant Waterworks Clean Water........................   151
        Columbia Riverkeeper.........................................   152
        Community Water Center.......................................   154
        Cooper Ferry Partnership.....................................   156
        Coosa Riverkeeper............................................   157
        Community Water Systems Alliance (CWSA)......................   158
        Dietel & Partners............................................   159
        Ecosystem Investment Partners................................   160
        Evoqua Water Technologies....................................   161
        Family Farm Alliance.........................................   162
        Freshwater Furture...........................................   164
        Galveston Bay Foundation.....................................   165
        Georgia Section American Water Works Association.............   166
        GreenLatinos.................................................   167
        Gulf Coast Center for Law & Policy...........................   168
        Gulf Coast Sustainable Grower's Alliance.....................   169
        Education Conservatioin Cooperation..........................   170
        Internatioinal Union of Painters and Allied Trades, AFL-CIO..   172
        Iowa Soybean Association.....................................   173
        Maryland Department of the Environment (MDE).................   174
        Milwaukee Water Commons......................................   175
        Missouri Section American Water Works Association............   176
        Metropolitan Sewer District, Safe Clean Waterways............   177
        National Latino Farmers & Ranchers Trade Assiciation.........   179
        National Municipal Stormwater Alliance.......................   181
        National Parks Conservation Association, May 7, 2021.........   183
        National Recreation and Park Association.....................   185
        National Wildlife Federation.................................   186
        NC AWWA-WEA, American Water Works Association................   188
        Natural Resources Defense Council............................   189
        David P. Ross, Former Assistant Administrator Office of
          Water, EPA.................................................   190
        OHIO Section American Water Works Association, May 4, 2021...   192
        Pittsburgh Water & Sewer Authority...........................   193
        Policy Link..................................................   195
        Physicians for Social Responsibility.........................   196
        PVC Pipe Association.........................................   198
        River Network................................................   199
        Seatle Public Utilities......................................   200
        SERCAP, Inc..................................................   202
        Sierra Club..................................................   203
        Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy...........   204
        The Conservation Fund........................................   205
        The Freshwater Trust.........................................   209
        The Green Infrastructure Leadership Exchange.................   210
        The Sewerage & Water Board of New Orleans....................   211
        The Water Research Foundation................................   212
        Tualatin Riverkeepers........................................   214
        Mayor Regina Romero, City of Tucson..........................   216
        United for Infrastructure....................................   217
        U.S. Water Alliance..........................................   218
        Marc Edwards, Affiliatio-University Distinguished Professor,
          Virginia Tech..............................................   219
        Detroit Water and Swewerage Department(DWSD).................   221
        Water for People.............................................   223
        Water Foundation.............................................   224
        Wimberley Valley Watershed Association (WVWA)................   225
        State of Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources...........   226
        Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District (MMSD)..............   227
        Chamber of Commerce of the United States.....................   229
    Letters of support of the nomination of Michal Freedhoff:
        Household Commercial Products Association....................   230
        ACS Chemistry for Life.......................................   232
    Letter from several organizations to Hon. Michael S. Regan.......   234

    HEARING ON THE NOMINATIONS OF SHANNON ESTENOZ TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY
     OF FISH AND WILDLIFE AND PARKS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR, RADHIKA
       FOX TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR FOR WATER OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL
     PROTECTION AGENCY, AND MICHAL FREEDHOFF TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR
       FOR CHEMICAL SAFETY AND POLLUTION PREVENTION OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL
                               PROTECTION AGENCY

                                  ----------

                            WEDNESDAY, MAY 12, 2021

                                           U.S. Senate,
                     Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:07 a.m. in
    room 253, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper
    (chairman of the committee) presiding.
        Present: Senators Carper, Capito, Cardin, Whitehouse,
    Markey, Kelly, Padilla, Inhofe, Cramer, Lummis, Boozman, and
    Ernst.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

        Senator Carper. Good morning, everyone, Senator Capito.
        I want to start off the hearing today and welcome our
    witnesses. I want to welcome the family members and hope you
    will introduce those who are here to cheer you on.
        I want to start the hearing by expressing my thanks to
    Senator Capito, to Adam and the folks who work with you, Mary
    Frances, John Caine and others who are part of our Water team
    on the Democratic side.
        I like to describe this committee as workhorses, not show
    horses. I think we showed that in spades a couple weeks ago on
    the floor of the U.S. Senate. To be able to report out the
    first major infrastructure legislation and water bill on an 89
    to 2 vote was a source of great pride.
        I cannot tell you how many people have said to me, I am
    sure they have to you too, Senator Capito, how many of our
    colleagues have said it was like the Senate of old. People were
    able to offer their amendments but they also had the
    opportunity to share their amendments with us and we could make
    them a part of the manager's amendment.
        We had a real debate on amendments. We voted up or down and
    at the end of the day, we had just a wonderful vote, a very
    strong endorsement letter out of the Administration.
        I explained to some of my colleagues and my wife when I got
    home that night, I said that it was one of my happiest weeks in
    the U.S. Senate in 20 years. I am just very, very proud of the
    work that we did.
        We are working still on the next step, and that is surface
    transportation and I hope we can come through that with an
    equally good outcome.
        I just want to say thanks to everyone who has been a part
    of that, a special thanks to Senators Duckworth, Cardin,
    Inhofe, and Lummis. Thank you all for your good work and the
    work of your staff.
        I am happy to see you. Some of you look pretty familiar and
    the other two, I really have not had a chance to see except
    maybe remotely. We are pleased to welcome each of you
    outstanding nominees to fill critically important roles at the
    Environmental Protection Agency, and in one case, within the
    Department of the Interior.
        Thank you for joining us today. We thank your family
    members for joining us today. For those who might be joining us
    remotely, a big thank you to your family members who are
    willing to share you with all of us.
        Before getting to the particulars of our nominees, I want
    to take a moment to reflect on the issues we, as members of the
    Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, and our
    constituents back home are wrestling with that make these roles
    so critically important for each of us and each of our States.
    There isn't one of us who does not value the special natural
    spaces near our homes and in our States, including our national
    parks, including our wildlife refuges, from the First State
    National Historic Park to the Everglades and a lot of places in
    points east and west from there.
        These spaces support the fish, support the wildlife and
    quality of life that we take every opportunity to brag about. I
    know I brag about our national parks, I brag about our national
    wildlife refuges in our States and I suspect each of you do for
    your own. These spaces support the fish, the wildlife, the
    quality of life that we take again every opportunity to brag
    about.
        I think we have a moral obligation, which I talk about a
    lot, the moral obligation that we have to this planet that we
    have inherited. We have an obligation to care for these special
    places, we have an obligation to care for the habitats that
    they host, and the variety of species, including us, that they
    nurture.
        Of course, that requires skilled and committed leadership
    in places like the Department of the Interior. We are thankful
    to Shannon Estenoz for offering that leadership.
        Water has played, as I said earlier, a significant role in
    each of our lives already this morning. I don't know about you
    but we turned on the faucet at our home, brewed some coffee,
    and took a shower, with all the confidence that the water
    coming from our spigots was clean and safe, whether because of
    lead or PFOS contaminants or other contaminants, or because
    they simply can't afford it.
        We took a large step last week, as I said earlier, toward
    addressing the concerns with the passage of our Drinking Water
    and Wastewater Infrastructure Act, but there is a lot more
    still to do, as we know. I am grateful that Radhika Fox is
    ready to help us tackle those challenges at EPA.
        Every day, millions of people across our Country struggle
    with the threats posed by chemicals that pervade their homes,
    their workspaces, their water, their food and household
    products. Whether it is from PFAS in their water, for ethylene
    oxide in their neighborhoods, or formaldehyde in their
    wallboards, people are suffering.
        The American people need assurances that their products,
    their water, their food is safe for them and their families.
    That is a prodigious responsibility. We are grateful that
    Michal Freedhoff is willing to serve in this critical position.
        Michal, as some of you know, used to work with Ed Markey,
    or actually, I think he worked for her in the House for a long
    time and maybe in the Senate as well. We are delighted that you
    have this opportunity to serve in a new capacity.
        We are happy to welcome your daughters who are sitting over
    your left shoulder. I am always amazed at people like Michal,
    raising four kids, helping raise four kids and working really
    hard at the job here with all of us and somehow making it all
    work. Thank you.
        To the girls, I want to say, those who are here and those
    watching remotely, thank you for sharing your mom with all of
    us.
        Shannon Estenoz brings 24 years of conservation experience
    to the job, including as the Department of the Interior's
    Director of Everglades Restoration Initiatives and Executive
    Director of the South Florida Ecosystem Restoration Task Force.
    Her work prompted Eric Eichenberg, Everglades Foundation CEO,
    to say of her nomination, ``They are bringing on an
    extraordinary woman who is committed to the natural resources
    and environment of this Country.''
        Radhika Fox brings to her prospective role as head of the
    EPA Water Office a deep understanding of water policy and the
    importance of making clean water accessible to all Americans,
    regardless of their income or regardless of their zip codes.
    She has found success in working with people across the
    spectrum, prompting, I think this is a quote from the Iowa
    Soybean Association, and I am going to quote, ``Ms. Fox
    understands how water management issues are interwoven with the
    fabric of rural and urban communities and that our farmers must
    be part of the team and beneficiaries of this work. This
    integration is key for making real and long-lasting progress on
    protecting and improving water in the 21st Century.'' Again,
    that was a quote from Iowa Soybean Association.
        Last, but certainly not least, is Michal Freedhoff, someone
    well known to us at EPW. I already spoken about her and rather
    than embarrass her further, I think we will cut to the chase
    and let me just say that we are lucky to have someone who has
    your profound understanding of chemicals, oversight and
    management policy.
        During her time when she worked with Senator Markey, who
    was kind enough to let her come work with us on the Committee,
    she played a key role in helping convert a highly divisive bill
    to reform the Toxic Substances Control Act, better known as
    TSCA, into a package that gained broad bipartisan support
    throughout the Congress.
        It was initially championed by Frank Lautenberg, as I
    recall, and later by Tom Udall and by David Vitter, an unlikely
    partnership but one that was successful. Michal deserves a lot
    of credit for getting us to the finish line.
        It is that kind of knowledge-based, thoughtful and
    inclusive engagement that we so sorely need as head of the
    Chemical Safety Office at EPA. I think our Country will be well
    served to have Michal in that leadership role at EPA.
        I thank you all of you again for your willingness to share
    your wisdom, your expertise, and your inclusive instincts with
    our Nation.
        With that, I am happy to recognize the Ranking Member,
    Senator Capito, for her opening statement. Senator Capito.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO,
              U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

        Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        It is nice to be here with you after our win on the Water
    Bill on the floor. I add my voice of congratulations to you and
    your leadership team and your staff. Our staffs worked great
    together.
        Somebody asked me, how did you do that? I said, well, we
    listened to our committee, and we listened to our witnesses,
    and we wrote a bill that tried to accommodate, as much as we
    could, the varying views.
        I think in a place where there is a lot of talking, maybe
    listening is the better key to getting things done. You are a
    great listener and I appreciate being a part of your committee.
    Thank you for that. I also do want to thank the staff.
        I look over here and I see three very talented women. I am
    very proud of the fact that, with your beautiful daughters
    here, we get to see more and more women taking the helm of the
    leadership positions in the highest levels of our government.
    Congratulations to the President for nominating three strong
    women and having them in front of our committee today.
        We are going to look at another core function of our
    committee. Then I want to add a caveat that we are working hard
    to do the same thing with surface transportation that we were
    able to do with water. It is a heavier lift, we are finding,
    but we are working hard together to reach that point at which
    we can bring something to not just our committee, but to the
    full Senate as well.
        We are gathering today to do the consideration and
    oversight of the President's nominees. You all have a wealth of
    experience in your respective fields, and the Chairman went
    over that.
        Unlike the past nominees who have appeared before us this
    year, all three of today's nominees are already in place at the
    agencies in which you are nominated to serve. Put in another
    way, you have already been beginning to execute President
    Biden's agenda.
        Ms. Estenoz, Ms. Fox, and Dr. Freedhoff, thank you for your
    willingness to serve and for appearing before us today. Given
    your perspective from now being inside the Administration, I
    especially look forward to hearing about the policies that you
    are working on. I am interested to know what roles you have
    played in the decisions that the Biden Administration has made
    to this point.
        I also want to understand in which new or different
    directions you would push the Administration, being in a
    Senate-confirmed role, and what additional authorities you
    believe that additional layer of accountability will allow you
    to bring. That insider perspective will be very helpful to us.
        From the outside, the pace of executive action has seemed
    to occur at warp speed and without a lot of external
    engagement, especially from many of us in Congress. As National
    Public Radio reported, President Biden issued more Orders in
    his first 100 days than any President since Harry Truman.
        NPR observed that Biden ``may have campaigned on bringing
    bipartisanship back to Washington, but much of his early focus
    at least is on policies that he can implement on his own.''
    That is an NPR quote. Many of President Biden's key actions and
    reversals have come in the environment and energy policy area.
        I understand that we should expect a new Administration of
    the opposite party to have different positions than its
    predecessor. However, the pace of these changes and their
    unilateral nature concern me.
        Dramatic changes in regulations without adequate thought or
    input can hurt people, businesses, and local communities. That
    is particularly true during this economic recovery that we are
    facing.
        Of particular concern to me and this committee are issues
    like the Biden Administration's decision to revisit the
    Navigable Waters Protection Rule, we will be talking about
    that, the streamlined NEPA Act, and the recent Migratory Bird
    Treaty Rule, the last for which a proposal was just released
    last week.
        That said, some of the activities we have seen so far at
    the Department of Interior and EPA I do agree with and
    wholeheartedly support. Just last week, I participated in the
    sign unveiling for America's newest national park, really a
    source of pride for me, the New River Gorge National Park and
    Preserve. It is already bringing that economic opportunity and
    excitement to my home State. I cannot overstate how excited
    folks are, and I am too. Its administration will come under
    your oversight if confirmed, Ms. Estenoz.
        In the activities of EPA, I was pleased to see the
    Administration prioritizing research on PFAS in its budget
    proposal. I am also that glad EPA is moving forward with a
    primary drinking water regulation for PFOA and PFOS.
        If confirmed in the Office of Water, Ms. Fox would take the
    lead on that. We already talked about that on our Zoom call.
        Dr. Freedhoff, I know you have a wealth of experience. I
    believe we have actually been in the same room talking about
    PFOS together in your former role dealing with PFOS and other
    bioaccumulative chemicals from your years of service, including
    to our chairman, Chairman Carper. I look forward to hearing how
    the Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention also
    plans to address PFOS.
        I hope we can use this hearing to discuss both my points of
    concern and equally important, our areas of agreement.
        Thank you, Chairman Carper, for holding today's hearing. I
    turn it back to you.
        Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator Capito.
        When you said the words the New River Gorge, it brought a
    smile to my face. As a little boy, I learned to fish there with
    my dad and my grandfather. What a beautiful place.
        All right, thanks, Senator Capito. Now I want to introduce
    our nominees. I think Senator Markey is going to help me a
    little bit with one of them.
        First, we have Shannon Estenoz to be Principal Deputy
    Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and Parks for the
    Department of Interior. Shannon served as Chief Operating
    Officer and Vice President of Policy for the Everglades
    Foundation. She has also served as the U.S. Department of the
    Interior's Director of Everglades Restoration Initiatives, and
    Executive Director of the South Florida Ecosystem Restoration
    Task Force.
        Her previous professional roles also included Executive
    Director of the Environmental and Land Use Law Center;
    Everglades Program Director of the World Wildlife Fund; Sun
    Coast Regional Director of the National Parks Conservation
    Association; and three terms as the National Co-Chair of the
    Everglades Coalition.
        Shannon's public service includes appointments to Florida's
    Governor Lawton Chiles, with whom I had the privilege of
    serving as Governor, on the Commission for A Sustainable South
    Florida; Governor Jeb Bush's Commission for the Everglades; the
    Governing Board of the South Florida Water Management District
    and Water Resources Advisory Commission; and the Broward Water
    Resources Task Force.
        That is a pretty impressive list. We welcome you here
    today. I am going to ask you to share your testimony with us
    and then I will introduce Ms. Fox. Go ahead, please. Thank you,
    Shannon.
        Senator Markey. Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Carper. Why don't you please go ahead, Mr. Markey.
        Senator Markey. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. I
    would like to begin just by saying that I know your wife,
    Martha, thinks of you as a show horse while here you are a
    workhorse. But back in Delaware, you are the show horse.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Markey. I thank you, Chairman Carper, and Ranking
    Member Capito, for the opportunity to introduce Michal
    Freedhoff before the committee today. It is wonderful that two
    of her four children are here with us, the twins, her oldest
    daughters, Zahava and Rena.
        By nominating Dr. Freedhoff to serve as the EPA Assistant
    Administrator for Chemical Safety and Pollution Protection,
    President Biden is tapping an incredible scientific mind, a
    tenacious fighter for the public interest and a brilliant
    policymaker who has made a career out of bipartisan solutions.
        With all due respect to Senator Inhofe of Oklahoma, with
    whom we disagree on climate issues, I have to give credit where
    credit is due because it was Dr. Freedhoff, working with
    Senator Inhofe's staff, who got us to work together and pass
    numerous pieces of bipartisan legislation on brownfields, on
    chemical safety in the interest of consumers and our
    communities. In my opinion, there is truly no better candidate
    than Michal Freedhoff for this very important job.
        Dr. Freedhoff began her career in Congress in 1996 as a
    Science Fellow in my office in the House of Representatives. I
    couldn't have been too bad a boss because it began an
    incredible 20-plus years of work in Congress, including more
    than a decade of working with me in the House and the Senate
    from 1996 all the way up until 2017. congressional staffers and
    scientists reach a point in their careers where they have to
    pick whether to know a little about a lot or a lot about a
    little. Michal is the rare blend of the two who knows a lot
    about a lot of things. She truly is a congressional expert.
        From her successful work strengthening fuel economy
    standards and ensuring DOE whistleblower protections to raising
    the alarm about chemical disbursants used during the BP oil
    spoil to investigating nuclear safety, she has used her keen
    intelligence and scientific training as a chemist to draft and
    past the best policy.
        She also got me to sing about chemical safety and security
    in the Energy and Commerce Committee dais to the tune of What A
    Wonderful World It Would Be. Yes, she got gas chlorine to rhyme
    with water clean, so her talents truly know no limits. She
    really does know how to get things done.
        Michal was absolutely instrumental to our bipartisan work
    in strengthening the Toxic Substances Control Act. She can tell
    you what almost every chemical abbreviation stands for as well
    as what it would stand to do to our communities. For Dr.
    Freedhoff, the Periodic Table of Elements is her alphabet.
        She fought for firefighters, for workers, for children's
    health and for strong standards that provide certainty to
    businesses. During these negotiations, she worked to ensure EPA
    had enough funding from industry fees to assess and regulate
    chemicals and that industry had deadlines for compliance with
    EPA regulations.
        She pushed so that regulations on the most dangerous
    chemicals are finished more quickly and that if chemicals are
    found to be unsafe for groups like pregnant women, children, or
    workers, that EPA has to write regulations to protect those
    more vulnerable communities.
        She recognized that it is bipartisan commitment, married
    with consensus and give and take, that yields important, long-
    lasting legislation. She is now in a position to help implement
    that historic legislation. Our communities and families will be
    healthier for it.
        I saw back in 1996 that there was a tremendous intellect
    and spirit in Michal. That excellence has only continued. For
    20 years, she has served the public in Congress making policy
    stronger and smarter at every turn.
        I urge the committee to approve her nomination as EPA
    Assistant Administrator for Chemical Safety and Pollution
    Protection. She served us well as Minority Director of
    Oversight on this committee. Now the entire Nation can benefit
    from her leadership, building the strongest possible
    protections against dangerous chemicals in our environment.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Carper. I am Tom Carper and I approve that message.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Carper. We will not ask you to sing but we are
    delighted that you were able to introduce Michal to all of us.
        I am going to move next to Radhika Fox. We will just
    introduce you, then we will come back and ask you to give your
    comments. Ms. Fox currently serves as EPA Principal Deputy
    Assistant Administrator for Water. In that role, she is the
    Acting Assistant Administrator for Water.
        Ms. Fox has more than 20 years of experience in developing
    policies, programs and issues-based advocacy campaigns. She
    previously was the CEO of the U.S. Water Alliance. She also led
    the Value of Water Coalition, a program administered by the
    U.S. Alliance that spearheaded the popular Imagine A Day
    without Water Advocacy Campaign.
        Prior to joining the U.S. Water Alliance, Ms. Fox directed
    policy and governmental affairs for the San Francisco Public
    Utilities Commission, where my wife and I were last weekend for
    Mother's Day.
        Ms. Fox holds a BA from Columbia University and a Master's
    in City and Regional Planning from the University of California
    at Berkeley where she was a HUD Community Development Fellow.
        Finally, I am not going to attempt to match Senator
    Markey's comments with respect to Michal Freedhoff, but I think
    you can sense we know her and we love her. We are pleased she
    has this opportunity.
        I think it is really great, I will say this to this to your
    daughters, the law that your Mom was very much involved in
    writing, she now has the opportunity to implement for our
    Country and I think she will do very good work with us. That is
    something of value.
        With that having been said, I think I will come back to
    you, Ms. Estenoz, for your statement. Thank you and welcome.
    Feel free to introduce anyone who has joined us today in person
    or remotely if you would like to.

    STATEMENT OF SHANNON ESTENOZ, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY
      OF FISH AND WILDLIFE AND PARKS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR

        Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Chairman Carper, Ranking Member
    Capito, and members of the Environment and Public Works
    Committee. It is an honor to appear before you as President
    Biden's nominee to be Assistant Secretary of the Interior for
    Fish and Wildlife and Parks. I am very honored to be on this
    panel with these distinguished nominees from EPA.
        I want to say hello to my husband, Richard, our sons Nick
    and Spencer, my mom, my friends, my family who are all watching
    this morning.
        Senator Carper. Where are they?
        Ms. Estenoz. They are all over. I have folks in Pittsburgh,
    Arizona, Tennessee, Florida, everywhere. I want to say hi to
    everyone. Thank you.
        I am a fifth generation Floridian, born like all of my
    grandparents, in Key West. We call ourselves Conchs after the
    beautiful mollusk once plentiful in the Florida Keys. My father
    was a civil engineer and for the first 10 years of my life, his
    career took us to oil platforms off the coast of Louisiana, the
    Tennessee Valley Authority in Knoxville, and the U.S. Army
    Corps of Engineers in Kansas City.
        Before my father passed away in 1979, we returned to Key
    West where his last job was as an engineer for Monroe County,
    where he worked to replace the old Seven Mile bridge, perhaps
    the most famous section of the Overseas Highway.
        To grow up in Key West is to grow up on the water,
    swimming, fishing, snorkeling, boating and whether you know it
    or not, the water and its wildlife shape you. One of my
    earliest memories on the boat with my grandfather fishing was
    the day he caught me setting free the bait fish in his live
    well. He didn't scold me, because he knew there is no conflict
    between harvesting fish and wanting to protect them. Because
    when your family has been in a place for many generations,
    there is an instinct to conserve that has nothing to do with
    science or regulations. It has to do with a connection to place
    and to a way of life.
        My own career path includes many echoes of my father's. I
    too pursued civil engineering. As a student, I returned to
    eastern Tennessee to intern at Eastman Chemical Company. Of
    course, I dedicated 24 years of my career to an infrastructure
    modernization program, led by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers,
    to restore the Everglades. I guess I never lost my childhood
    instinct to help fish, and birds, and mammals, and people, by
    helping to restore the land and the ecosystem that sustains
    them all.
        My father was a bridge builder, and as part of my work on
    Everglades Restoration, I was proud to play a part in building
    new bridges across the Everglades. Today water flows under
    those new bridges into Everglades National Park.
        So I know that jobs, infrastructure, conservation, and
    restoration can and should go hand in hand. My work in the
    Everglades was ideal training for the role of Assistant
    Secretary for Fish, Wildlife and Parks. I spent more than two
    decades in the trenches of collaborative conservation, land and
    ecosystem restoration, species recovery, water management,
    invasive species response actions, and National Park
    stewardship.
        I spent 7 years at the Department of Interior as its
    Director of Everglades Restoration, reporting directly to the
    position to which I have been nominated. I was a colleague and
    leader of the dedicated career staff in both bureaus that this
    Assistant Secretary manages.
        As a State official, I have been a customer of the Fish and
    Wildlife Service's regulatory programs. So I know firsthand
    what it is like to be a State trying to work with the Federal
    Government. As a stakeholder, I participated in the
    government's efforts to engage the public, and I have put in
    the hard work that it takes to build consensus and coalitions
    to get things done.
        I have been in my current role at Interior for 112 days.
    Every day I learn more about the fish and wildlife and parks
    issues facing your States and the Nation. If I am confirmed, I
    will draw on my long State and Federal experience as I work on
    issues such as water management and predator recovery in the
    West; protecting resources central to the cultural and economic
    well-being of tribes; combating invasive species; and
    collaborating on conservation of the sagebrush ecosystem.
        The National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service
    play crucial roles in the challenges before us: recovering
    species and conserving habitat; supporting recreation and
    restoration jobs on public lands; and stewarding our most
    treasured landscapes and imperiled species through threats like
    wildfire and drought that are intensifying as a result of
    climate change.
        The Fish and Wildlife Service is on the front lines of
    wildlife disease, including preventing those diseases from
    spreading to humans. The Park Service will play a key role in
    recommitting to our government-to-government relationship with
    Tribal Nations and telling the stories of all Americans.
        If I am confirmed, I will bring with me the tools that have
    served me best in my career: communication, transparency, and
    intellectual honesty. I will approach this role with a passion
    for collaboration and meeting big challenges in partnership.
        I look forward to celebrating together the results that we
    achieve together. I hope that today will be the first of many
    conversations with this committee.
        Thank you, and I look forward to answering your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Estenoz follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Carper. Thank you very much.
        Did you say your Mom is watching today?
        Ms. Estenoz. My mother is watching today, yes.
        Senator Carper. Your dad passed away a number of years ago?
        Ms. Estenoz. He did, when I was 11.
        Senator Carper. I am sure they are very proud of you.
        Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Carper. Thank you very much for that statement.
        The position that you have been nominated for was held most
    recently by Rob Wallace, who was a good friend of many of us
    and good for the John Barrassos as well. I will never forget at
    his confirmation hearing, he talked about the bipartisan nature
    of this committee and the way we work together, whether it was
    water, surface transportation or other issues.
        He said these words, he said, ``Bipartisan solutions are
    lasting solutions.'' I have quoted him a million times. Thank
    God, I haven't had to pay him for the times I have quoted him.
    That spirit really underlies much of what we do here. So thank
    you.
        Next is Radhika Fox. Ms. Fox, you are welcome to begin when
    you are ready.

    STATEMENT OF RADHIKA FOX, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR
            FOR WATER OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

        Ms. Fox. Thank you, Chairman Carper, Ranking Member Capito,
    and members of the Committee. I am humbled to be nominated by
    President Biden, and honored to be considered by this esteemed
    committee, for the position of Assistant Administrator for
    Water at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
        I am excited to engage with you today, to hear about your
    water priorities, and discuss how the Office of Water can
    support the communities that you so proudly represent.
        I want to acknowledge the family that is here with me
    today: my husband, Jamie; my dad, Dr. K., as his patients call
    him; my brother, Raghu, and his wife, Katie. And my kids,
    Anjali and Krishna, wanted to be here, but I said no skipping
    school.
        My family is the American dream at work. I am a first
    generation American. My father and my mother grew up in rural
    India. My grandparents provided for their families as small
    farmers growing rice, lemons and bananas. They relied on wells
    for their drinking water and pit latrines for their wastewater
    management. Everything I have accomplished is because I stand
    on the shoulders of my parents' hard work. Thank you for that,
    Dad.
        Today, I sit before you as the first woman of color, the
    first person of Asian-American descent, to be nominated to lead
    EPA's Office of Water. Only in America could that happen in one
    generation. If confirmed, it would be my honor to serve the
    country where my parents' hopes and dreams took root and
    flourished.
        Senators, as you all know, water is the world's most
    precious resource. However, our Nation's water systems are
    often invisible to most. The vast majority of Americans turn on
    the tap and safe water flows out. Used water goes down the
    drain and is treated before it is safely returned to the
    environment.
        Most people just don't think about the environmental
    policies, the funding and financing programs, the work of local
    water utilities, and the key role of States and tribes in
    providing these essential water services. It just works for
    most Americans, but not for all.
        During the Flint Water Crisis, Time Magazine told the story
    of 2-year-old Sincere Smith, featured on the cover with a full
    body rash from bathing in the water. What Sincere and his
    family experienced should not be experienced by any child or
    parent in this Country. That is really what brings me to this
    work.
        If confirmed, I will dedicate myself to ensuring that all
    people, regardless of their income, their zip code, or the
    color of their skin, will have access to clean and safe water.
        Prior to joining the EPA, I served as the CEO for the U.S.
    Water Alliance, where I championed consensus-based progress on
    complex water issues. I worked with water leaders across the
    country, from rural hamlets to urban enclaves, from America's
    heartland to both coasts.
        I also worked at the San Francisco Public Utilities
    Commission, the public water agency that provides drinking
    water, wastewater, stormwater and municipal power to 2.7
    million people in the Bay Area. There, I learned what it takes
    to comply with the range of regulations promulgated by the
    Office of Water, and I also built practical knowledge on how to
    manage water systems, whether it is capital and budget
    planning, infrastructure project delivery, planning for drought
    and diversifying of water supplies and managing through crises
    like wildfires.
        Throughout my career, I have been guided by one
    foundational principle: listen to all sides in order to find
    enduring solutions. If confirmed, I will manage the Office of
    Water in a manner that is grounded in the wisdom, the voice,
    and the lived experience of those who are impacted by our
    decisions.
        We can't make policy sitting behind a desk in Washington,
    DC. We have to actively engage with all those who are impacted
    by our decisions, whether it is water utilities, farmers and
    ranchers, community organizations, environmental organizations,
    States, tribes, local officials, and many, many others.
        I truly believe, Senators, that water is the great uniter.
    It can unite this Country; it can help pull us out of the
    compounding crises that face our Nation, whether it is a global
    pandemic, economic recession, longstanding racial inequities,
    and climate change. Water brings us together across society and
    across the aisle.
        If confirmed, it would be my honor to work with
    Administrator Regan and all of you to advance durable water
    solutions.
        I look forward to your questions. Thank you so much for
    your time.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Fox follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Carper. Thanks again.
        Would you ask your Dad to raise his hand? Thank you so
    much. Who is that other fellow sitting next to him?
        Ms. Fox. My husband.
        Senator Carper. My staff tried to convince me he was your
    brother, but that is your husband.
        Thanks to both of you for being willing to share your
    daughter and wife with all of us. It is nice to see you all.
        Dr. Freedhoff, please.

        STATEMENT OF MICHAL FREEDHOFF, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT
     ADMINISTRATOR FOR CHEMICAL SAFETY AND POLLUTION PREVENTION OF
                  THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

        Ms. Freedhoff. Good morning, Chairman Carper, Ranking
    Member Capito, Senator Inhofe, and other members of the
    committee.
        It is an honor to be here today, though I will admit it is
    kind of strange to be sitting on this side of the dais. I am
    fortunate to have what I think of as three honorary home State
    Senators on this committee: Senator Cardin, from my adopted
    home State of Maryland; Senator Markey, my first Capitol Hill
    boss and for whom I worked for more than 15 years; and Chairman
    Carper, who gave me the opportunity to work on this committee
    staff the last 4 years.
        Senator Inhofe. What about me?
        Ms. Freedhoff. OK, you too.
        [Laughter.]
        Ms. Freedhoff. I am joined here today by my twin daughters,
    Zahava and Rena Van Leeuwen, who hopefully are not playing on
    their phones. Watching from home are my husband, Michael; my
    son, Sammy; and daughter, Vivienne.
        My late mother, Helen Freedhoff, and my 85-year-old father,
    Stephen, who is stuck behind a closed border in Canada, would
    have been here if they could have been.
        I moved to Washington the day after I defended my Ph.D. in
    chemistry. Although I didn't even have a job lined up, I was
    drawn to working in government, knowing that I could use my
    scientific background to make a difference in people's lives.
        During my time on Capitol Hill, I was remarkably fortunate
    to have had the rare opportunity to work with so many of you
    and your staffs to rewrite the Toxic Substances Control Act. I
    certainly never imagined that I would have this once in a
    lifetime honor to be President Biden's nominee to lead the
    Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention at EPA and
    implement the law that we all worked so hard on.
        During my more than two decades working for the legislative
    branch, I believe I earned a reputation for being fair,
    approachable, substantive, and able to craft provisions and
    consensus by bringing people with disparate viewpoints
    together.
        Many provisions of this committee's unanimously supported
    PFAS legislation demonstrate the way I approach the legislative
    process. Some of these measures, like adding almost 200 PFAS
    chemicals to the Toxics Release Inventory that Senators Capito,
    Gillibrand and Carper co-authored, actually fall within the
    office I would manage if confirmed.
        It is that spirit of collaboration that I would bring to
    this new role. I believe that we can, and we must, fulfill
    EPA's mission of protecting human health and the environment in
    a manner that includes input provided by a diverse set of
    stakeholders. That applies to ensuring chemical safety under
    TSCA, to providing safe, effective tools for farmers to protect
    our food supply under the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and
    Rodenticide Act, FIFRA, and to working to incentivize more
    sustainable practices and products in our pollution prevention
    programs.
        If confirmed, one of the responsibilities I most look
    forward to is implementing the Frank Lautenberg Chemical Safety
    for the 21st Century Act, TSCA. I consider that work to be a
    highlight of my career.
        Some combination of the complexity of the subject matter,
    the intense debate surrounding some of the issues, and the
    shared legislative battle scars made the bipartisan team of
    staff, who spent months together as we worked to get it done,
    among my most trusted colleagues and friends today still. We
    took the time needed to understand each other's perspectives
    and made important compromises as we negotiated difficult and
    sometimes very divisive provisions of the bill. That hard work
    produced a law that was supported almost unanimously.
        I want to provide my assurance that if confirmed, I will
    ensure that our activities are conducted transparently, using
    the best available science and informed by EPA's expert career
    staff. While you may not ultimately agree with every decision I
    make, I can commit to you that if confirmed, all our decisions
    will be well documented, transparently made, and will seek and
    incorporate input from all stakeholders.
        Finally, while I have worked closely with EPA staff for
    years, I have developed newfound appreciation for their
    dedication, talent and resilience since arriving at the agency
    a few months ago. I am looking forward to working with the
    scientific, legal, and policy staff to implement America's
    chemical and pesticide safety programs.
        If confirmed, I am confident that with their partnership we
    can move TSCA implementation forward in a manner that honors
    the late Senator Lautenberg's legacy and lives up to Congress's
    expectations that EPA uses its new authority to protect
    Americans against the risks of unsafe chemicals.
        Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify, and I
    look forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Freedhoff follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Carper. Thank you very much for that statement,
    Michal.
        Before I turn to Senator Capito for the first round of
    questions, we have something we do at each of our hearings with
    witnesses who have been nominated. I ask you three questions.
    After I ask the question, we will just go down the line and you
    can say yes or no. I would urge a ``yes'' response but it is up
    to you.
        The first question is, do you agree, if confirmed, to
    appear before this committee or designated members of this
    committee and other appropriate Members of the Congress, and to
    provide information subject to appropriate and necessary
    security protections with respect to your responsibilities? Do
    you, Ms. Estenoz?
        Ms. Estenoz. Yes.
        Senator Carper. Ms. Fox?
        Ms. Fox. Yes.
        Senator Carper. Dr. Freedhoff?
        Ms. Freedhoff. Yes.
        Senator Carper. Thank you. So far so good. Second question,
    do you agree to ensure that testimony, briefings, documents and
    other electronic forms of information are provided to this
    committee and its staff and other appropriate committees in a
    timely manner?
        Ms. Estenoz. Yes.
        Ms. Fox. Yes.
        Ms. Freedhoff. Yes.
        Senator Carper. Thank you. One last one. Do you know of any
    matters which you may or may not have disclosed which may place
    you in a conflict of interest if you are confirmed?
        Ms. Estenoz. No.
        Ms. Fox. No.
        Ms. Freedhoff. No.
        Senator Carper. Thank you. Senator Capito, we are going to
    have two 5-minute rounds in terms of questions. She needs to be
    in two places at one time right now and the Commerce Committee.
    Thank you very much for being here.
        Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for giving me the
    privilege of going first. I apologize, after I question them, I
    have to go over to Commerce. We are working on the Endless
    Frontiers Act which is----
        Senator Carper. Endless.
        Senator Capito. Endless. That is a good way of putting it.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Capito. I am going to start with you, Ms. Fox. We
    talked about this issue on Waters of the U.S. You have all
    pledged clarity, thoughtfulness and regulatory certainty.
        Administrator Regan committed to not going back to the
    verbatim reading of the 2015 Obama Waters of the U.S. rule.
    This is a very far-reaching rule that impacts a lot of people
    and a lot of agriculture as well. But he hasn't provided much
    detail on this.
        I am wondering, in your opinion, do you believe that the
    2015 rule was overreaching? What would your plans be to ensure
    we do not return to that overreaching definition which I,
    obviously, believe that it was? Also, do you agree or disagree
    with the court decision, including the injunctions against the
    rule issued in 2015?
        Ms. Fox. Thank you, Senator Capito, for the question. Also,
    thank you for the opportunity to visit with you recently on so
    many of the issues before the Office of Water. I really look
    forward to accomplishing great things with you and your office
    if confirmed.
        On the question of Waters of the U.S., this is, of course,
    one of the most foundational components of the work before the
    Office of Water because it sets the foundation for how we
    protect our lakes, our rivers, our oceans, our wetlands. We are
    in the process of reviewing the Navigable Waters Protection
    Rule. Under Administrator Regan's direction, we are really
    trying to understand what are the lessons learned from an
    implementation perspective on both the 2015 rule and the 2020
    rule.
        You asked about how we are going to approach that review
    and that consideration. It will really be, as Administrator
    Regan has said, to listen to all sides to understand what is
    working, what is not working from an implementation
    perspective, from the agricultural community, from industry,
    from environmental organizations, as well as our co-regulators,
    the States and tribes. Based on that feedback, and really based
    on the science and the economic analysis, we will make a
    determination moving forward.
        What I can say, Senator Capito, is that Administrator Regan
    and I want an enduring definition of Waters of the U.S., one
    that can withstand Administration changes, that can protect our
    waters and ensure the economic vitality of all communities.
    That is our commitment as we do this review.
        Senator Capito. I would implore you again, as I think a lot
    of folks did who opposed the direction the Obama administration
    went, that we don't go down that path again. Obviously, the
    courts agreed with that presumption and caused a lot of
    confusion at the same time.
        Ms. Estenoz, I wanted to ask you about NEPA. Just recently
    Secretary Haaland signed secretarial orders that directed the
    DOI to ignore and to not follow the commonsense reforms to the
    implementation of NEPA. We hear about this from everybody in
    terms of how long it takes to get things approved, how long the
    process is, how lengthy and expensive it is, and we still are
    having issues.
        Did you play any role in advising the Secretary in the NEPA
    implementation decision? Are there elements of the Trump
    Administration's NEPA reforms that you could support? The first
    question is, did you play any role in them?
        Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator Capito.
        I was not directly involved in the development of the NEPA
    recommendations, but as part of the DOI leadership team during
    these first 112 days, I have paid close attention. Obviously
    for the two bureaus that I have managing, this is a very
    important issue for them.
        I think the Secretary's goal here is to make sure our
    environmental reviews are thorough but also timely and
    efficient. I think it is very important that balance be struck.
        We are reviewing the procedures and policies the previous
    Administration had in place. The elements of it that work, I
    fully expect we will continue those and refine those that need
    to be refined to achieve the right balance between thoroughness
    and timeliness.
        In my career, I have been on all sides of NEPA. So I have
    been a customer waiting for a NEPA to be finished and then I
    have been involved in the development of them. So I am
    sensitive to how long those analyses can take. But again, I
    think it is finding that right balance between making sure they
    are thorough. It is an important bedrock of the way that
    government implements programs and projects, and then doing it
    in a way that is efficient, transparent and accessible to the
    public and to sort of our customer base for projects and
    programs.
        Senator Capito. As we look to the big Surface
    Transportation Bill that we are working on, that is obviously a
    critical aspect of this. I would encourage you to take that
    practical experience that you bring in terms of length and
    time, without skirting any environmental regulations, into
    consideration.
        The new national park in West Virginia, since you will have
    oversight over the national parks, I wanted to get a
    reassurance, No. 1, that you would come and visit our brand new
    park, where he learned to fish with his father and grandfather.
    It is a really special place. So, a commitment that the new
    park will be able to get the infrastructure that is needed with
    the increase visitorship that we are already seeing.
        Ms. Estenoz. Senator, let me say that I, my husband, and
    our two at the time very young children spent a magical summer
    vacation at New River Gorge, one of the most magnificent places
    in our Country. For a Florida girl, where we measure topography
    in inches, it was really a staggering and profoundly impactful
    experience for me. It is really one of my favorite places. You
    can count on me, if I am confirmed, to make sure that the
    National Park Service has what they need to make the most of
    that. I want to congratulate you and Senator Manchin on that.
        Senator Capito. We will have to clip that and put that out
    around the Country. That is a great advertisement for our
    beautiful spot.
        Last question, Dr. Freedhoff on the PFOS issue. You know
    this is something I am deeply committed to and you mentioned it
    in your opening statement.
        Do you feel there is a scientific gap between the tools
    that EPA needs to decide whether or not to regulate? It seems
    like it has taken so long in some ways. Is that because there
    is a gap in tools and a gap of certifiable data that can be
    used to move forward?
        Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much for that question, Senator.
        I know how important the issue is to you and to so many
    members of the committee as well. I know there is sometimes a
    disconnect between the urgency that people expect the agency to
    be able to act with and the urgency that we actually act on.
        Senator Capito. Right.
        Ms. Freedhoff. Part of the reason for that are the research
    gaps that you are talking about. One of the provisions that was
    in this committee's PFOS legislation was language directing
    EPA's Office of Research and Development to come up with a way
    to prioritize PFOS so that the agency will be able to focus its
    research and monitoring efforts a little bit more
    strategically.
        In my office, if I am confirmed, there are a few different
    efforts that we have been working on that will help complement
    that. First is the Toxic Release Inventory language that you
    co-authored which will give us information about which PFOS are
    still being released into the environment.
        Second is a proposed rule that is at OMB that will require
    manufacturers who make PFOS to tell us what they made, how much
    they made and what it was used for. That would give us a
    snapshot of what is in commerce. That will also be able to
    inform our research efforts, and monitoring and regulatory
    efforts as well.
        Finally, just a couple weeks ago, we announced a policy
    that is designed to prevent unsafe new PFOS from entering
    commerce. That will prevent future problems that will cause us
    to play catch-up again as well.
        Senator Capito. I appreciate that.
        Thank you so much. I have to run.
        Senator Carper. Thanks for being here. We will see you
    later.
        I will start my questioning with Ms. Fox. Ms. Fox, if
    confirmed, what will you do to make sure we have affordable,
    clean and safe drinking and wastewater for all Americans?
        Ms. Fox. Thank you, Senator Carper.
        First, I would make sure that the Office of Water is
    implementing the range of water infrastructure funding and
    financing programs that this committee has taken so much
    leadership on developing. I would also focus on strengthening
    and supporting the capacity of our States and our tribes,
    because they are often the ones that are working with local
    communities and getting these resources delivered.
        I also think we have an opportunity to do more on
    affordability. I know this is an issue that is very important
    to you and other members of the committee, that as we make
    these infrastructure investments, we have to do them in a way
    that makes them continue to be affordable both to individual
    families, but also that there is affordability at the utility
    scale.
        A third priority will really be around PFOS and emerging
    contaminants. I think as Michal just said, we have so much
    exciting work happening at EPA right now. I was really proud
    just a couple of weeks ago to be asked by Administrator Regan
    to co-chair a new PFOS Executive Council. I think that is going
    to be important as we think about making sure that water is
    clean for all families.
        Senator Carper. My second question is for Dr. Freedhoff.
    Dr. Freedhoff, first of all, let me say I am very pleased you
    received support from former EPA Administrators, both Democrat
    and Republican, who have led the Office of Chemical Safety and
    Pollution Prevention before you.
        I would like to ask unanimous consent to enter into the
    record a letter from no less than seven former directors or
    administrators of the Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution
    Prevention urging your confirmation.
        Not hearing any objection, so ordered.
        [The referenced information follows:]
        [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5118.174

        .EPS[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5118.175

        .EPSSenator Carper. One area I am really interested in, and
    I suspect many of us are, in hearing from you on, and I suspect
    many of us are, is how EPA plans to implement TSCA, the Toxic
    Substances Control Act, to protect American workers. We have
    heard from environmental groups that they are unhappy with the
    way EPA assumed workers would always be wearing protective
    gear. We have heard from companies that they are unhappy that
    EPA made unrealistic assumptions about risks to workers.
        With that in mind, would you tell us how you think the
    worker safety concerns should be addressed?
        Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much for that question, Mr.
    Chairman.
        I have heard a lot from environmental organizations and
    industry as well. As you know, the last Administration
    finalized the first ten risk evaluations under TSCA. I think
    there was a lot of good work that went into those risk
    evaluations but I think a lot of them were rushed as well. But
    I also know the career scientists at EPA really moved heaven
    and earth to get them done.
        So I can't really speak to you as to why those decisions
    were made, but I can tell you a little bit about how I see the
    issue of worker safety and how I would implement it if
    confirmed. First of all, if our scientific risk evaluations
    find that a chemical burns your hand, but gloves solve that
    problem, then our chemical safety rule is just going to say you
    have to wear gloves.
        It is the same for OSHA. If the chemical safety risk
    evaluation finds a risk we identified can be solved by
    complying with OSHA regulations, then our rule is just going to
    say follow OSHA rules.
        The second thing I would say is that industry clearly feels
    like it has a lot of information that the agency needs to make
    our decisions. I have met with industry a number of times and I
    really want to say that I welcome their input. If they show us
    that something that they are currently doing to protect workers
    is enough to address the risk, then our rule is just going to
    say, keep on doing what you are doing.
        The third thing I would say is I think the agency could do
    a better job with risk communication. The law tells us that we
    have to look at potentially exposed and susceptible
    subpopulations. Of course that includes workers.
        But saying that a risk exists to workers in the absence of
    protections doesn't mean the protections are absent at chemical
    companies all over this Country. I think we will do better in
    the future to provide context that is important for everyone to
    understand in future.
        Senator Carper. My time has expired.
        Senator Inhofe, you are next. According to my list, Senator
    Whitehouse is going to join us next by Webex. I see we have
    been joined by Senator Cramer. Senator Markey was here and he
    may come back. My guess is he will. We are looking for Senator
    Kelly and Senator Padilla as well.
        Senator Cardin. Senator Cardin is on Webex.
        Senator Carper. Senator Cardin on Webex. Good. Thank you.
        Senator Inhofe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I do have a question for each of the witnesses. I am been
    looking forward to this. I had a chance to visit with some.
        Let's start with you, Ms. Fox. The WOTUS rule that was in
    place prior to the last Administration was one that we had a
    real concern with out in Oklahoma. That was primarily that we
    had the idea that the State regulation of the water was working
    very well in our State of Oklahoma.
        There is a fear that with a regulation coming from
    Washington, that even out, we are a pretty arid State. If you
    get out in the panhandle of Oklahoma, it does not get a lot
    drier than that. They were saying they felt that under the
    Federal rules that would probably end up being a wetland and be
    over-regulated.
        So I would just like to know the specifics on the rules
    that Trump replaced WOTUS with, what specific things about that
    do you find to be objectionable, if any?
        Ms. Fox. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        I think the example you just shared from your home State of
    Oklahoma is exactly why, if confirmed, I would really manage
    the Office of Water in a way that really tried to understand
    the wisdom, the voice and the lived practical experience of
    people in complying with our rules. I bring that orientation
    because I worked at a local water agency that had to comply
    with all of the things that the Office of Water did.
        To your question specifically, as we have been conducting
    our review of both the 2015 rule and the 2020 rule, really at
    the direction of Administrator Regan, we have found
    implementation challenges with both of the rules. For example,
    with the 2015 rule, there were a lot of case-specific
    jurisdictional determinations. What we found from listening to
    folks in the States is that was really cumbersome from an
    implementation perspective. That is what our career staff have
    heard.
        At the same time, I think the 2020 rule tried to correct
    for that. But now what we are hearing, our career staff are
    hearing from several States is, now we have the vast majority
    of waters in some of the States that are now not
    jurisdictional. So it is raising a different kind of
    implementation challenge as far as water quality protection.
        Senator Inhofe. I don't mean to interrupt you but I know I
    have to get to all three of you. I appreciate your comments.
    Particularly your opening statement, I enjoyed that. I look
    forward to working with you. If you don't behave, I am going to
    talk to your Daddy.
        I want to real quickly go to Ms. Estenoz on the Lesser
    Prairie Chicken. I know you are fully familiar with that. You
    and I had a chance to visit about that.
        We are facing something right now in a Federal court in
    Texas about the threatened listing for the Prairie Chicken. The
    reason at that time they didn't think the conservation efforts
    were really impressive, were really considered at that time. We
    are talking about five States who are involved in this. You and
    I had a chance to talk about that.
        I would just like to kind of get your input into how much
    weight are you going to put, attach to, the conservation
    efforts of the five States in terms of your jurisdiction?
        Ms. Estenoz. Senator Inhofe, thank you so much. Thank you
    for the time you spent with me talking about this and other
    issues. I very much appreciate it.
        We are under a court deadline to issue a 12-month finding
    near the end of the month. What I would say is that the
    conservation efforts of States and private landowners are
    central, really, to any hope we have for recovering species,
    before they are listed or whether they are listed or not,
    regardless of their conservation status.
        You gave me good counsel yesterday to reach out and learn
    more about those conservation efforts. I have already taken
    steps in the last 24 hours to begin that dialog. I think that
    is really where the hope for the Lesser Prairie Chicken lies,
    in our collaborative efforts to recover that species.
        Senator Inhofe. That is good. We will be visiting with you.
    I appreciate it very much. I have every reason to believe that
    you will take great consideration of the input that is out
    there.
        Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Carper. Your time has expired but go ahead. We are
    going to have a second round as well.
        Senator Inhofe. I have a picture here I want everyone to
    look at. I want the little girls here, Zahava and Rena, to
    listen to what I am saying. Your Mama probably is the only
    person in America that will have equal praise from Senator
    Markey and me. I say that in all honesty, because we have
    worked so well together.
        In fact, we shared some credit. I have often said I felt
    that I was more responsible for getting Barbara Boxer to come
    with us on the chemical legislation and they all now are giving
    you that credit. So I am not sure, I think we shared that
    credit at that time. And I have always enjoyed working with you
    and certainly do.
        I would like to have any comment you would make to update
    us as to what we are going to be doing with the Prairie
    Chicken. You and I both know all the background of that. I
    would like to see where you think we are going to be on that
    issue.
        Senator Carper. I would ask you to be very brief if you
    will, please.
        Ms. Freedhoff. I am hoping that I don't have to talk about
    the Prairie Chicken for the entire 4 years that I spend in this
    position if I am confirmed.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Carper. That was very brief and to the point. I
    think she got her message across. That was lovely. I am glad
    you asked for the extra time. We will come back to you for a
    second round, Senator Inhofe.
        Senator Inhofe. We will.
        Senator Carper. Senator Cardin is going to join us next by
    Webex, followed by Senator Cramer, Senator Whitehouse by Webex,
    Senator Lummis by Webex, Senator Markey, and Senator Kelly.
        I have to go join a Finance Committee hearing for a little
    bit. Senator Kelly is good enough to take the gavel for me
    while I do that. Senator Kelly, I think Ben Cardin is up next.
        Senator Cardin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Let me thank all of our witnesses. I have had a chance to
    meet with each of you. Thank you very much for your public
    service.
        I would first ask unanimous consent to submit letters of
    support for Ms. Fox to be Assistant Administrator of Water from
    three Maryland organizations: Waterkeepers Chesapeake, Moonshot
    Missions and South Easterners Royal Community Assistance
    Project.
        Senator Kelly.
        [Presiding] Without objection.
        [The referenced information follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Cardin. Thank you very much.
        Ms. Estenoz, if I could, we had a wonderful conversation
    and I appreciate your knowledge and sensitivity to the wildlife
    refuges that are located in the State of Maryland and your
    desire to fill critical positions, your knowledge of the
    National Park System in our State of Maryland and the request
    to expand the National Park System and your sensitivity to
    that, your understanding of the Chesapeake Bay and the
    importance it has to our entire region.
        I am going to ask you a question we did not have a chance
    to talk about during our meeting, one I think is critically
    important in the theme of the Biden Administration in dealing
    with equity issues. One of the goals of the 2014 Chesapeake
    Watershed Agreement is to expand public access to the Bay and
    its tributaries through existing and new local, State and
    Federal parks, refuges, reserves, trails and partner sites.
        Can you share with us how you would prioritize the
    accessibility of outdoor space and the equity issues and so
    many Americans today who would enjoy access but find it
    difficult if not impossible to gain access?
        Ms. Estenoz. Senator, thank you so much. Again, thank you
    for the time you and your team spent with me this week. I
    appreciated that so much.
        Expanding public access to nature and public lands is a top
    priority for the Administration, for the Secretary. If I am
    confirmed, it will be a top priority for me. We have spent a
    lot of time in the last 112 days talking about the programs we
    have and that we can leverage, existing programs that we can
    leverage to increase public access.
        Our National Wildlife Refuge System is particularly
    promising in terms of its accessibility to underserved
    communities and the millions of Americans that live within a
    60-minute drive, for example, of a National Wildlife Refuge and
    looking for opportunities to help those folks get out to our
    public lands.
        The other very big opportunity we have is in the LWCF
    Program. On Monday, we just announced the Outdoor Recreation
    Legacy Competitive Grant Program of $115 million. We are so
    grateful for the Congress' work to fully fund LWCF.
        That program is specifically designed to help underserved
    communities, rural communities, and urban communities increase
    their access to parks and open space. It is one of the
    initiatives that I am the most excited about. If I am
    confirmed, it will be one of my top priorities.
        Senator Cardin. I look forward to working with you on those
    issues, because I think it is an area where we can make
    significant progress and get greater support for the programs
    of our national parks, refuges and just conservation.
        Ms. Fox, I want to ask you one question. We had a chance
    also to talk about the resiliency and stabilization funds that
    were approved by the Senate, and the affordability issue. I
    want to just, if I might, talk about water affordability.
        It is extremely challenging for the ratepayers to have to
    deal with what is necessary for clean, safe drinking water.
    Senator Wicker and I have put into the bill passed by the
    Senate a pilot program on water affordability that would be
    implemented by the EPA. It would be a new program for you all
    to implement.
        Can you just tell us your willingness to take on this
    responsibility if we get you the resources and authority?
        Ms. Fox. Yes, thank you, Senator Cardin, for the question
    and for the opportunity to visit with you earlier this week.
        Absolutely, if confirmed, water affordability would be a
    top priority for me. Senator Cardin, as we talked about earlier
    this week, I have a long track record of working on water
    affordability issues, because I really view affordability as
    the flip side of the coin of making infrastructure investments.
    What I saw working at a local water agency is we were always
    balancing affordability with the timing, phasing and sequencing
    of our infrastructure projects.
        We would absolutely work at the EPA Office of Water to
    design and quickly implement the affordability pilot program
    that is in the Water Infrastructure bill that this committee
    led the development of. I would draw on my experience, having
    helped communities around the country in the design of their
    water affordability programs. One of the things that I did when
    I was at the U.S. Water Alliance was to establish something
    called the Water Equity Network working with over 20 cities
    around the Country on these very issues.
        Finally, one of the things we have just started over the
    last month at the Office of Water is a Water Affordability
    Learning Exchange. What we are doing with that Learning
    Exchange is creating an informal, ad hoc mechanism for our
    team, the career leadership in the Office of Water, to
    regularly engage with equity and environmental justice
    organizations who are working on water affordability issues,
    the water associations that represent both rural and urban
    water utilities to really find lots and lots of common ground
    on water affordability.
        So you would have my absolute commitment, Senator Cardin.
    Thank you for the question.
        Senator Cardin. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr.
    Chairman.
        Senator Inhofe. Mr. Chairman, a point of clarification. In
    my haste to try to get everything done, I didn't get around to
    the real question I was going to talk to you about, Ms.
    Freedhoff. I will do that for the record, OK?
        Ms. Freedhoff. Absolutely. Thank you.
        Senator Inhofe. You bet.
        Senator Kelly. Senator Cramer is recognized for 5 minutes.
        Senator Cramer. Thank you, Senator Kelly. Thank you to all
    of the witnesses for being here.
        Ms. Estenoz, I am from North Dakota. We are a big prairie
    pothole State, potholes and prairies everywhere. One of the
    reasons we have so many potholes and so many wetlands is
    because unlike many of the other prairie pothole region States,
    our farmers did not drain when everyone else was draining.
    Consequently, they have been punished for their good behavior
    on a regular basis by I am sure well-intentioned bureaucrats
    over the years.
        There are a number of programs, but one I have been the
    most frustrated with, that would be under your jurisdiction
    should be confirmed, of course, is the waterfall production
    areas. Those are these pre-1976 that fathers and grandfathers
    and grandparents signed in difficult times with unclear maps
    and not very good definitions.
        I brought an example of what I think has been a real abuse
    with the Fish and Wildlife Service. I have been very
    frustrated.
        There has been some work done that is beneficial like new
    mapping. It has been very delayed but it is getting better. The
    old maps are like on a napkin or an envelope drawn with a
    pencil. I am only exaggerating slightly. Of course, we have
    better technology today.
        But here is one of the frustrations I want to point to in
    this map. We have copies for you as well in case you don't get
    a good view of this. This is literally a picture of land I
    visited last year with the Director of the Fish and Wildlife
    Service. This is an area that has a water production area
    easement on it. One of the definitions for the easement from
    pre-1976, in some of the language of the grant easement, it
    says, ``protects large bodies of surface water including lakes
    and ponds.''
        Now, I am not a hydrologist. But I am pretty sure I can see
    where the lakes and ponds are. Can you see where there are
    lakes and ponds on this? Those would be wetlands in the
    easement.
        Now, here is the frustration. I am going to replace this
    picture with the map that came from the Fish and Wildlife
    Service identifying the wetlands for the easement contemporary.
    We are going to flip that up so we can get it in the right
    direction. In the upper right-hand corner is that same large
    lake. As you can see, it is not assessed any acres for the
    easement.
        Now, why would that be? Well, the reason for that, in my
    view, is because there is a cap of acres for the easement.
    Whoever decided that wasn't a wetland decided this .15 spot
    down there is a wetland. This dry spot of .14 acres is a
    wetland. This dry spot of .49 acres is a wetland. All added up,
    so that the dry land can be considered water for the easement
    and not attribute any of the real water to the easement. This
    is called taking. It has been a legal fact in my view, by the
    Fish and Wildlife Service.
        As I said, we have made some progress at least in the
    mapping side. And we think we have made some progress on the
    administrative side through an appeals process. Our farmers and
    landowners have gotten their new maps. Not all of them are done
    yet even though they were promised. This COVID thing happened
    and a lot of people did not work for a long time.
        At the same time, their appeals have fallen on deaf ears.
    Not a single substantive appeal has been granted, not one,
    including this, especially one that got to the--not a single
    director's appeal. Now, I am talking about the previous
    Administration.
        I am hopeful that you, if confirmed and the others in the
    Fish and Wildlife Service, the director, when that person is
    nominated and confirmed, will take the time to come out and
    hear frustrated farmers one more time who I will have to beg to
    get there because they have no faith that the government is
    going to look out for them.
        This is what helps get the 12 percent conservation folks.
    We have not even talked about WOTUS. We will do that later. But
    this is where it gets to 12 percent, is taking a bunch of dry
    land and calling it a wetland and ignoring the wetland. To get
    to 30, people would starve, because there wouldn't be enough
    cropland left. We have to take a realistic view of this. More
    important than that is the fact that farmers own this land.
    This is their land that is being taken.
        I know I have been out of commission for a couple weeks. I
    hope that you and I can get to know each other better. I would
    love to bring you up to speed on all this and would love to
    hear more.
        Ms. Estenoz. Senator, if I may, thank you for this. I do
    look forward to us getting to know one another and for the
    opportunity to dig into this issue.
        I do know and I am pleased to hear that you consider it to
    be a step in the right direction, that there is an appeals
    process that appears to be something that is working for the
    Fish and Wildlife Service. I think that is good.
        I obviously need to dig deeper and fully understand the
    parameters of how we are delineating what is a wetland. I have
    a lot of experience in wetlands being where I am from in south
    Florida. It is an area of both the law and science I am
    familiar with.
        I thank you for the images. This is very helpful. If I am
    confirmed, I pledge that I will be in close contact with you.
    If I heard an invitation to come out to North Dakota, I would
    very much like to take you up on that.
        Senator Cramer. But they are skating rinks in February, so
    we have to pick the time. It is very important when you come to
    North Dakota.
        With that, Mr. Chairman, there was a letter written to the
    Acting Director from a number of organizations from North
    Dakota. If you have not received it, we will make sure you get
    it. I would ask unanimous consent to place it into the record.
    Thank you.
        [The referenced information follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Kelly. Thank you, Senator.
        Joining via Webex is Senator Whitehouse, who is recognized
    for 5 minutes.
        Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman Kelly.
        First, let me welcome Ms. Estenoz, Ms. Fox and Dr.
    Freedhoff. It is great to have you here in the committee with
    us even if we are just here electronically.
        For Ms. Fox and Dr. Freedhoff, I want to ask about the
    problem of science in the last Administration which was
    routinely ignored and even disparaged. That was done on a
    repeated, consistent, systematic basis. I think any notion that
    this was a coincidence or a fluke is living in a dream world.
        I know that Administrator Regan has pledged to take a look
    at all of that disparagement and violation of science. In the
    conversation we had, it was clear to me he was going to look at
    who, what, where, and when, but not at why things went wrong.
        I would encourage you, if you are confirmed, to make sure
    you are answering the question of why. Because if this was
    systematic, we need to know who was behind it.
        When January 6th happened, I pushed very hard on the
    Department of Justice to make sure they were not just
    challenging the people who came through the windows and doors
    of the Capitol but looking upstream to who might have been
    behind it, who might have been organizers or funders. I think
    you need to have the same conversation with your employees.
        My question to you is going to be one for the record
    because I want you to have the chance to sit down and answer it
    fully, and not under the pressure of my 5-minute limit.
        That is, what is going to happen when people come forward
    to disclose things that were done wrong at EPA in the past? Are
    they going to be told, we are not interested, go away, we are
    looking forward, not backward? Are they going to be told we are
    not really interested, but why don't you go down to that
    overworked inspector general? Maybe they will take an interest
    there.
        Are they going to be told, look, this really damaged an
    important agency. We are taking this seriously, and here is our
    system for dealing with your concerns. Here is who is going to
    hear you out, here is how we are going to coordinate the
    different stories we are hearing. Here is what our response
    plan is to the predicament we have been left with.
        I hope you can all answer that. I would appreciate very
    much if you gave that some time and attention and answer those
    questions for the record.
        Ms. Estenoz, welcome. I am delighted that you are here. I
    hope we can bring you up to Rhode Island to visit the park that
    is going in along the Blackstone River. It is a slightly
    unusual park because it is made up of lots of old historic
    mills and parts of the early industrial revolution which were
    joined together for power by the Blackstone River.
        Now, it is very unusually--it does not have borders like a
    lot of parks. It is like jewels strung along the string of the
    Blackstone River. I hope very much that you will come and see
    it and help us turn that into the facility that it really
    should be. It has just gotten started.
        I want to talk generally with you and put a flag up about
    the problem of waters and coasts being overlooked. I am
    thrilled that you are from the Everglades, so you know what a
    coast is. You know what salt water is. I think that is great.
        The Land and Water Conservation Fund, I have complained
    about for years for its upland bias. In fact, I am filing
    legislation to rename it the Upland and Freshwater Conservation
    Fund, so that any pretense that it treats coasts and salt water
    fairly is removed and we can set up a Coasts and Salt Water
    Conservation Fund that can, I hope, stand on its own and have
    the resources that upland and freshwater gets.
        The Army Corps of Engineers has a flood program that is
    just horrible for coasts compared to what it does for upland
    and inland. The Department of the Interior is named Interior so
    it is not exactly a coast facing agency.
        Our coasts are seeing unprecedented hazards from sea level
    rise, from warming of the seas, from upheaval in the biota in
    the fisheries, and from really catastrophic storm risk. Rhode
    Island is right in the target area for that. It is a very
    coastal, ocean State.
        I hope as you go about your responsibilities, you will make
    sure that this long tradition of overlooking oceans and coasts
    gets whittled back. We even saw it in the Biden infrastructure
    plan, which is extremely weak on everything having to do with
    oceans and coasts. It is like there is a missing section on
    oceans and coasts.
        I am going to be a persistent nag, I guess, of the Interior
    Department to pay more attention to oceans and coasts. I just
    wanted to lay the marker down right now, and if I have any time
    left, to ask you for a quick response.
        Ms. Estenoz. Yes, Senator, I am happy to respond to that.
    When you are born on an island, it is all coast. My husband and
    I have raised our family in Broward County, Florida, which
    regularly experiences now several times a year what we call
    sunny day flooding, which is essentially the ocean coming in
    and occupying our streets.
        The amount of work that needs to be done to build coastal
    resilience is really, and from the Interior Department, the
    equities that we have on the coasts are incredibly significant.
        If I am confirmed, coastal restoration and coastal
    resilience, these will be high priorities for me and in terms
    of the Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Park Service.
    An I look forward to visiting Rhode Island.
        Senator Whitehouse. We will be in touch a lot. I welcome
    you and thank you.
        Ms. Estenoz. Thank you.
        Senator Kelly. Thank you, Senator.
        Now joining us also via Webex is Senator Lummis who is
    recognized for 5 minutes.
        Senator Lummis. Thank you very much.
        Ms. Estenoz, you have an impressive career. It is very nice
    to meet you by Zoom.
        I take note of a statement in your testimony where you
    said, ``As a State official, I was a customer of Fish and
    Wildlife Service's regulatory programs and know firsthand what
    it is like to be in the shoes of States trying to work with the
    Federal Government.'' In your view, what is the role of States
    in the context of the Endangered Species Act?
        Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator. Thank you for that
    question.
        I think the States play an absolutely central role when it
    comes to the Endangered Species Act, particularly when it comes
    to species recovery and management. What we want is to recover
    species. We want species not to need the protection of the
    Endangered Species Act.
        States have a tremendous amount of expertise on the ground
    in species management. It has been my experience in my own
    career that in the almost 25 years I was working in Florida,
    the State of Florida was our strongest partner. The Florida
    Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission was a tremendous
    partner there.
        I believe very strongly in partnerships with States and
    really leveraging the expertise that we have in States.
        Senator Lummis. I am delighted to hear you say that,
    because one of the great success stories of the Endangered
    Species Act since it was enacted is grizzly bears in the
    Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife
    Service, in the Bush administration, the Obama administration,
    and the Trump Administration all agreed that the Greater
    Yellowstone ecosystem grizzly bear population has recovered and
    should be delisted.
        Ms. Estenoz, do you believe we should keep species on the
    list that every scientist in the past three Administrations
    agrees should be delisted, has recovered and management handed
    back to the States?
        Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator. I believe when species
    meet the definition of delisting or down listing, then we
    should delist or down list. The Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
    grizzly population is doing very, very well. The grizzly is
    listed as an entire lower 48 population.
        But I want to say something specifically if I may about
    predator recovery in particular. Species recovery is always
    challenging. But I want to recognize that there are special
    challenges when it comes to predator recovery, particularly for
    folks on the ground who find themselves sharing the landscape
    with a recovering predator species.
        It is really important for folks to feel supported, and
    listened to and that we have the right tools in the toolbox to
    help folks live and exist with a recovering predator species.
    State management and State expertise, as I said before, is
    absolutely essential to this approach.
        If I am confirmed, I will prioritize understanding and
    working closely with States to recover all species and in
    particular, predators.
        Senator Lummis. Thanks so very much.
        I am going to shift over to Ms. Freedhoff but if I get a
    chance, I will come back to you.
        My question is about chemicals that make benefits and
    marvels of modern life possible. According to the Department of
    Energy, more than 96 percent of all manufactured goods rely on
    chemicals. One of the duties of the Office of Chemical Safety
    and Pollution Prevention is to weigh the benefits and risks
    associated with chemicals.
        How do you intend to weigh those two things, both the
    benefits and the risks of chemicals, before your office?
        Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much for that question, Senator.
        You are absolutely right. Both of the laws that serve as
    the primary authority for the Office of Chemical Safety and
    Pollution Prevention require the EPA to consider costs and
    benefits and risks. For example, in TSCA, Congress actually
    gave EPA the authority to exempt uses of chemicals if that use
    is needed for an economically significant reason from our
    rules. If confirmed, I intend to follow the law.
        Senator Lummis. Thank you. Hopefully, I will get a chance
    in round two to visit with you again.
        Mr. Chair, I yield back.
        Senator Kelly. Thank you.
        Is Senator Markey here via Webex?
        [No response.]
        Senator Kelly. I will recognize myself for 5 minutes.
        Ms. Fox, I want to get your thoughts on the Waters of the
    United States or WOTUS rule. As you know, in June 2015, the
    Obama administration finalized a new rule which expanded the
    scope of waters protected by the Clean Water Act.
        While I support efforts to reduce surface water
    contamination, the way the 2015 WOTUS rule was written did not
    work for Arizona and wound up defining irrigation ditches, dry
    riverbeds and washes as waters of the United States when there
    is no water.
        While these rules were repealed last year, I understand the
    EPA is considering reevaluating the WOTUS rules in the coming
    months. As Assistant Administrator for Water, how will you
    ensure the EPA takes into account the unique geographies of
    desert southwestern States like Arizona?
        Ms. Fox. Thank you for the question, Senator Kelly.
        I think the example you just provided from Arizona is why,
    if confirmed, I will do the work of the Office of Water based
    on the wisdom, the experience, the practical implementation of
    what these rules look like in communities around the Country.
        To your question of how is it that we will consider the
    very diverse ecosystems, the topography and geography when it
    relates to water, one of the things Administrator Regan has
    really directed us to do is to have robust stakeholder
    engagement around understanding both how 2015 was implemented
    and how the 2020 rule is currently being implemented.
        One of the things we plan to do is initiate listening
    sessions this summer. Then in the fall, what we have been
    talking with the Army Corps, who jointly developed the WOTUS
    rule, as you know, with EPA, that we will be doing regional
    roundtables. Really, Senator Kelly, the reason we want to do
    these regional roundtables is we recognize that when we create
    a national definition like Waters of the U.S., it looks
    different. I am still living in California, so I share the arid
    State concerns that you have in Arizona. It looks different
    there than it does in the Great Lakes or in the southeast.
        We will be having these regional conversations to really
    better understand the very concerns you have raised.
        Senator Kelly. Thank you, Ms. Fox. I look forward to
    helping us come up with a good list of stakeholders in the
    State of Arizona for the summer and fall.
        Dr. Freedhoff, I want to discuss, for our remaining time
    here, EPA regulatory actions with regard to semiconductor
    production in the United States.
        As you know, in January, the EPA issued five final rules
    under TSCA for certain chemicals that are persistent,
    bioaccumulative, and toxic. One rule was for phenol, phenol
    isopropylated phosphate 3:1, which is a chemical widely used in
    semiconductor manufacturing. After hearing belated concerns
    from industry, I appreciate that the EPA has reopened the
    comment period and provided a no action assurance and hope that
    semiconductor producers fully take advantage of this additional
    time to help shape the final rule.
        As the Senate prepares to consider efforts to promote
    additional semiconductor manufacturing in the U.S., has EPA
    engaged with the Department of Commerce to discuss ways to
    provide regulatory stability under TSCA for the semiconductor
    industry?
        Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much for that question, Senator.
    I appreciated talking to you about that issue when we met
    privately.
        As you pointed out, those five rules were finalized by the
    last Administration. Honestly, the last Administration, from a
    process perspective, did nothing wrong when it finalized those
    rules because they asked for public comment, they reached out
    to stakeholders and really tried very hard to get the input of
    the regulated companies that would be subject to it.
        As you said, when we started hearing from your constituents
    and many, many other companies across the Country with their
    concerns, that they hadn't really realized the implications of
    these rules on their business, we did take quick action to give
    them some more time and flexibility to give us the information
    we need. We really do encourage them and other industry sectors
    to bring us that information, because I know the EPA career
    staff wants to address all of the valid concerns that have been
    raised about those rules.
        In terms of what you are asking about interagency
    coordination, there is actually a TSCA Interagency Coordinating
    Group. That group consists of representatives from many
    different agencies, including the Department of Commerce, the
    Department of Defense, NASA, the Small Business Administration,
    and many others as well. Our career scientists meet with them
    on a regular basis. I think it is more frequently than once a
    month. Sometimes it is weekly, depending on what we are doing.
    We do that because we really have a strong interest in
    understanding what other agencies feel their needs are as we
    move forward with regulatory actions.
        Senator Kelly. Thank you, Dr. Freedhoff. My time is
    expired.
        I will now recognize Senator Ernst for 5 minutes.
        Senator Ernst. Thank you very much. I welcome our witnesses
    here today, and look forward to our discussion.
        Ms. Fox, I will start with you, please. I am going to take
    what Senator Kelly was talking about, with the 2015 WOTUS Rule,
    and just add a little bit to that. Because as you see, there is
    a bipartisan disagreement with the 2015 rule that was put into
    place.
        I adamantly was opposed to what we saw under the Obama
    administration in 2015. It was very damaging to the State of
    Iowa. What we saw with that rule and the way it was defined,
    those new Waters of the U.S. then allowed the Federal
    Government, or would have allowed the Federal Government to
    regulate 97 percent of Iowa's land. Not just water, but land.
        So I know that we talked about stakeholders, and I am
    really glad to hear you say that. Because many of my
    constituents felt that their concerns were ignored during the
    2015 WOTUS rulemaking process. And in 2014, the Obama
    administration's very own SBA Office of Advocacy submitted
    comments to the EPA and Army Corps of Engineers, arguing that
    the agencies hadn't conformed to the Regulatory Flexibility
    Act's requirements that small business concerns be considered.
        So you have mentioned you want to bring stakeholders to the
    table. What will you do specifically to ensure that the
    concerns of all of these impacted stakeholders, especially as
    you look at States across the Midwest, maybe in California,
    those that are in agriculture, those concerns are addressed in
    the event that a new definition is proposed?
        Ms. Fox. Thank you for the question, Senator. One thing I
    will say is that in my former role as the CEO of the U.S. Water
    Alliance, I had the opportunity to send quite a lot of time in
    Iowa. We had our One Water Summit every year, and Iowa brought
    the biggest delegation of farmers and water utilities and
    business leaders.
        When I hosted something called the One Water for American
    listening sessions, we went to Iowa to hear about really the
    tremendous innovation that is happening on both water quality
    and farm profitability, because we saw municipalities and
    farmers working upstream, downstream. In fact, last year,
    during my final year at the U.S. Water Alliance, we awarded the
    Iowa Soybean Association the U.S. Water Prize because I truly
    believe that it is through collaboration and partnership that
    we will get the work of protecting our Nation's waters and
    protecting our agricultural productivity at the same time.
        So what I commit to, if confirmed, is, I want us to find an
    enduring definition of Waters of the U.S. That is what
    Administrator Regan wants. We don't want to see this ping-pong
    any more. For our career staff at EPA, they have written three
    rules in 6 years. That seems crazy to me.
        So what we are very committed to, Administrator Regan and
    I, is to understand the implementation challenges of both rules
    in communities around the Country and to work with folks like
    you, your constituents, to get to something that is enduring.
    We would love to have a definition that does not shift as
    administrations shift. I would love to have the opportunity to
    work very closely with you to make that happen, if confirmed.
        Senator Ernst. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I do hope
    that we can move on to a definition that would be enduring. I
    think absolutely you are correct there. But we have a lot of
    different States with a lot of different needs. The nexus
    really does have to be water, not a bunch of land surrounding
    an intermittent stream, or whatever it might be. But it needs
    to be about water.
        So I do have a question about WOTUS and the 30 by 30. I am
    not sure what agency is actually going to be in charge of the
    30 by 30 rule that is being proposed by President Biden. Is
    that the EPA, is it USDA? Do you happen to know?
        Ms. Fox. I can find out and get back to you.
        Senator Ernst. OK. Because this plan has been proposed, but
    nobody really knows who is going to administer this, and we
    have no idea how we arrive at putting 30 percent of America's
    lands in a protected status. I talked to Secretary Vilsack, we
    had an informal question session with him a few weeks ago. He
    told my senior Senator, Chuck Grassley, oh, we are going to get
    this done by using CRP. Well, I don't see how that works. CRP
    is for vulnerable lands. Not every State farms. So I am not
    sure. I guess maybe he just wants to take it away from those of
    us that farm.
        Does the Biden Administration plan to use----
        Senator Carper.
        [Presiding] Senator, your time is expired. Go ahead and ask
    this question but then we will have to go to Senator Padilla.
        Senator Ernst. OK, thank you, Mr. Chair. So we will take
    this for the record. But we just want to know about the
    definition of WOTUS and how it ties into the 30 by 30. Because
    what we are concerned about in Iowa is that the Federal
    Government starts using expanded definitions and rules that
    then to take away land, productive land from farmers, and put
    it in a protected status, we do not want to see that. I think
    that is Federal Government overreach. I will send the question
    to you and we will do it for the record.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Carper. Would you like to respond just briefly to
    that question? Maybe you can do more in writing later on, but
    anything you want to say right now, you are welcome to.
        Ms. Fox. I am happy to answer that question for the record.
    But I think, Senator Ernst, one thing that is going to guide
    the work of the Office of Water if confirmed is we have to
    balance all of these interests of water quality, ensuring the
    profitability of our farmers who feed the Nation, they feed the
    world.
        So we have to balance those things. What you can count on
    me if confirmed as the AA for Water is that I will always
    listen to your constituents, I will hear them out. And as I
    make decisions, I will always look back with you and them. I
    really think that through partnership, through collaboration
    and through really transparent decisionmaking, that is what is
    going to be best for the people of this Country. You have my
    commitment on that.
        Senator Ernst. Yes, thank you. And I appreciate the
    commitment.
        Senator Carper. Senator Ernst, sometimes I ask people who
    have been married a long time, what is the secret to being
    married a long time. As you might imagine, I get hilarious
    answers, and I actually write them down and use them from time
    to time for comic relief. One of my favorite answers, though,
    is communicate and compromise. Communicate and compromise. That
    is also the secret to a vibrant democracy. I would add a third
    C, and that would be collaboration. Communicate, compromise,
    collaboration. I think that is what we are hearing both of you
    talk about today. I welcome that. Thanks for joining us.
        All right, Dr. Padilla, Dr. Senator Padilla, I know you are
    out there somewhere. You are recognized next. And if we don't
    have anybody else intervene, then Senator Cramer would be after
    you. Senator Padilla, please.
        Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. For the record, I am
    not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV.
        I have a couple of questions and topics I would like to
    raise with Ms. Estenoz regarding the National Park System. We
    know it is a source of pride for so many Americans. Our
    national parks boast not just stunning scenery and our national
    monuments and historical parks, but it helps tell the story of
    our Country.
        However, the stories told by our park system don't
    completely paint the full mosaic of America, nor does it
    adequately preserve the full culture and legacy of all
    Americans. We have a lot of work to do to diversify our
    national parks and monuments. Too few sites focus on the
    experience of the Black, Asian, and Native Americans, or teach
    us about our Latino heritage. And we don't have enough parks
    and monuments proudly dedicated to the contributions of the
    LGBTQ community and not nearly enough sites that celebrate the
    contributions of women to our Nation's history.
        I wonder if you can talk for a minute about how you would
    work with the Biden Administration to ensure that the National
    Park Service sites better tell America's rich and diverse
    history?
        Ms. Estenoz. Thank you so much, Senator, for that question.
    This is an incredibly important priority for the Administration
    and for the Secretary.
        The National Park Service, in many ways, is our
    government's preeminent experts on the power of place and how
    important places can be in our effort to tell a story. You are
    right, I agree 100 percent, as does the Secretary, that the
    range of stories that we tell isn't broad enough. It doesn't
    tell the full, rich story of America. And it is an absolutely
    high priority for us to fix that problem, and to think of our
    national park sites, which some of them are parks, but they are
    also historic and scenic trails. We have historic sites, we
    have national seashores. There are a rich diversity of stories
    to be told at most of those sites.
        So if I am confirmed, this will be a top priority for me,
    it is a top priority for the Secretary. This includes telling
    the rich story of our indigenous communities, and revitalizing
    our commitment to telling the stories of tribal nations and
    involving them in weaving those stories and sharing them with
    visitors to our national park sites. I very much appreciate the
    question.
        Senator Padilla. Thank you. I look forward to working with
    you and the Administration on that in the years ahead.
        Next question is a topic that was raised earlier about
    access to outdoor spaces. I want to dig a little bit deeper. As
    you know, too many children, especially in communities of
    color, grow up without access to outdoor spaces. Nationwide,
    three-quarters of people of color live in nature-deprived
    communities.
        Los Angeles County, not just my home State, but my home
    county, is one of the most densely populated regions in the
    Country. It has one of the lowest rates of park access. It has
    3.3 acres of park space per 1,000 residents, half as much as
    other high-density areas.
        The COVID pandemic has showed us how important access to
    outdoors is, and that our local parks can bring just as many
    mental and physical and educational benefits to residents as a
    national park. So I want to thank you for your work in helping
    to rescind President Trump's Secretarial Order 3388 and
    reinstating funding for the Outdoor Recreation Legacy
    Partnership Program, which helps fund the parks for urban
    communities. I would encourage the Administration to go big and
    include a robust funding request for this program in the next
    Fiscal Year budget.
        Again, I know it was brought up earlier in the hearing, but
    if you want to speak for a few more minutes on how you would
    approach the work to ensure more urban communities in
    particular can access quality green spaces.
        Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Senator. Again, this is a part of a
    similar issue. Equal access to nature, the year that we have
    been through as a Nation is perfect evidence of how important
    it is for folks to have access to outdoor spaces. So many
    Americans this year have taken refuge in the parks in their
    neighborhoods and their communities. For folk who don't have
    access to those areas, it has been that much harder to cope
    with the year that we have lived through.
        As I mentioned earlier, we just 2 days ago announced $150
    million investment in the ORLP program. This is the largest
    investment. It is a competitive grant program. One of the
    things that is a high priority for us is to ensure that
    communities have the opportunity to actually compete for those
    dollars.
        So we are working hard internally to ensure that we are
    promoting the program, that we are offering our technical
    assistance to folks who want to try to participate in that
    program. Now that the Congress has invested in full funding of
    the LWCF, that is an absolute game changer for communities who
    need and deserve greater access to the outdoors in their lives
    and in their communities.
        Senator Padilla. Thank you for that. Again, I look forward
    to working with you on this in the years ahead.
        Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Senator Carper. Senator Padilla, thanks so much for joining
    us today, and for those questions.
        Senator Cramer is back for a second round. I think Senator
    Markey is trying to join us. The vote starts in the Senate, we
    have two votes, they are going to start the first one in about
    three or 4 minutes. But we have some time.
        Senator Cramer.
        Senator Cramer. Thanks you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks again to
    all of you.
        Ms. Fox, as I mentioned during the first round, I wanted to
    get to WOTUS. You have answered a lot of WOTUS questions since
    I have been here, and you have done very well with them. So I
    am just going to add my illustration and ask some pretty simple
    questions.
        Last Congress, in this committee we did hold a hearing on
    the Trump WOTUS rule. One of the witnesses was the North Dakota
    Commissioner of Agriculture, Doug Goehring. Doug testified,
    ``The most fundamental management practice in agriculture is
    effective water management, either to retain, conserve, or
    convey. An overly rigid, one size fits all Federal intervention
    and regulatory oversight is not reasonable, not workable and
    not appropriate.''
        Now, Administrator Regan, whose nomination I supported in
    this committee, and on the floor, has said the EPA is going to
    rewrite the regulation again, but not as the Obama
    administration did in 2015. You have echoed that sentiment a
    couple of times. I like consistency within an Administration,
    Mr. Chairman.
        North Dakota successfully litigated against the 2015
    regulation, which would have laid claim to over 80 percent of
    our land mass with its 4,000-foot buffer. In 2006, if we are
    looking for a definition, I think Justice Scalia got it exactly
    right in his majority opinion when he set the standard for
    continuous surface water connection to relatively permanent
    bodies of water. There was a little vagueness in a few of those
    words, but nevertheless, I think it is a pretty good starting
    point.
        So with that in mind, I want to refer to this map of North
    Dakota, just to help people understand. We literally are,
    people always say they are something, we really are the center
    of the North American continent. There is a monument in Rugby,
    North Dakota, that says, this is the center of the North
    American continent.
        We are prairies, we are badlands. Theodore Roosevelt
    National Park, the only national park named after a person,
    place matters, right? This is where his ranches are. Right out
    here in the badlands, limestone, sandstone, cactus, badlands.
        This map illustrates what would fall under Waters of the
    U.S. definition of navigable waters. Now, I have a pontoon, I
    live on a bay of the Missouri River. If I can't drive my
    pontoon on it, I know it is not navigable, right? But this is a
    whole bunch of stuff that you couldn't drive a pontoon on.
        So anyway, obviously WOTUS is at the heart of agriculture,
    as you have been hearing from others. It is very near and dear
    to North Dakotans. We want to get it right.
        So I am just going to ask you some really basic things.
    First of all, and I think you testified to this. But they
    didn't get it right in 2015. Do you think they got it right in
    2015?
        Ms. Fox. Senator, it sounds like, first of all, that
    Shannon and I need to do a joint trip together so that we can
    understand the two very original challenges. So maybe we can do
    that.
        Senator Cramer. That would be fun, yes. The Administrator
    promised to do it too, but you can either come with him or at
    another time.
        Ms. Fox. Senator Cramer, again, we all want an enduring
    rule. I think we want an enduring definition that is national,
    but really can address the particular local circumstances of
    water. As we know, water is also changing rapidly, the Great
    Lakes are warming, parts of California and Arizona are drying
    very rapidly.
        So how do we create a rule that can withstand the test of
    time and respect the local needs? That is really what
    Administrator Regan wants, that is what he has directed me to
    do, that is what I want to do. I want to get it right, and I
    want to get it right with all of you.
        So I hope you will help us with that.
        Senator Cramer. You raise a really good point. Both you and
    the Administrator I think bring some very valuable experience.
    He as a State regulator, you as somebody who has been in a
    regulated industry, although not agriculture, but again, WOTUS
    was clearly important.
        That is what gives me hope, as well as your willingness to
    talk, to collaborate, to communicate. We have lots of Cs that
    work: Carper, Capito, Cardin, Cramer, there are lots of C words
    that work.
        Ms. Fox. And Cramer.
        Senator Cramer. And Cramer. So I look forward to that. I
    really do. I am an eternally optimistic person, Mr. Chairman.
        So you are invited, you are welcome. You can leave the
    Administrator at home or bring him with you if you want, but he
    is coming at some point. You raised an important point, and
    this would have been relevant to the previous discussion, that
    changing, that has been going on for centuries. That is part of
    why North Dakota farmers didn't drain. They moved with the
    water. They farmed when it was dry, if it was wet over here,
    then the next year they farmed over here, because they valued
    having that water around them. They were naturally
    conservationists. But they reject the notion that the Federal
    Government is going to tell them how to do it if not a partner.
        With that, thank you both. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Carper. Thank you, Dr. Cramer.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Carper. We can never have too many Cs.
        There is a good spirit here. I hope this is a good spirit
    that we can continue to embrace as we go forward and address
    some thorny issues and really important issues for all
    different parts of our Country.
        I would like to come back to you, Ms. Estenoz. I have a
    question. And I think senator Markey is trying to get here. I
    won't stretch it out too long, but we will make sure he has a
    chance at a second shot here.
        Ms. Estenoz, our committee has spent considerable time in
    recent years, I have been on this committee for 20 years, I
    love this committee. I feel so fortunate to serve on it.
        In recent years we have deliberated matters involving the
    Endangered Species Act. While the Endangered Species Act is one
    of our Nation's most popular and successful environmental laws,
    it is not without controversy, as you know. That said, I
    believe we can all agree more than we disagree when it comes to
    preserving and when it comes to implementing this bedrock law.
        My question, Ms. Estenoz, is, is in your opinion, how can
    the Department of Interior best foster collaboration, one of
    those Cs, versus conflict, another C, when it comes to the
    Endangered Species Act?
        Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that question. I
    think it is such an important one. Because we have talked a
    little bit with some of the other questions and some of the
    other discussion earlier about how important recovery is in the
    Endangered Species Act, as an ultimate driver of what we want
    to try to do. There is a whole movement regarding conservation
    without conflict, and moving past conflict to cooperation and
    collaboration, just to keep the C theme going here. In my
    experience in Florida, that is when we have gotten the most
    done, even when we are dealing with listed species, even when
    we are dealing with species that are on the brink.
        And we have a couple, we have a couple in Florida. We have
    many, too many, in our Country. We have some 12,000 species
    that need conservation assistance to avoid extinction. That is
    too many.
        I think everyone would think that is too many. I don't
    think that is a particularly controversial statement.
        We are not going to recover those species or improvement
    their conservation status unless we can work together. As I
    said earlier, some of the strongest expertise when it comes to
    specific species management, it is on the ground, it is the
    folks who are closest to those species, and it is incumbent
    upon Fish and Wildlife Service.
        Frankly, I think we do a good job integrating our work,
    particularly through, for example, the Association of Fish and
    Wildlife Agencies throughout the Country. There are
    tremendously strong relationships among the people on the
    ground there. It is really great to watch. We need to empower
    those relationships and those partnerships.
        If I am confirmed, it will be my job to support them and to
    encourage that collaboration and if I am confirmed, I will
    pledge to do just that.
        Senator Carper. All right.
        As we wait for Senator Markey, I want each of you to take a
    minute and talk to us about your top priorities, one or two top
    priorities. We have heard from you about some of the pressing
    issues that face our Nation and the roles that you will be
    playing. But I would like to, before we finish up, to get your
    perspective on some additional matters that you expect to
    address once you take office. Just mention for us briefly a
    couple of your top priorities.
        Dr. Freedhoff, I am going to ask you to start out. Just
    talk about some of your top priorities briefly.
        Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman. I would say
    No. 1 is really implementing TSCA and recognizing that when
    that law was enacted, everyone, environmental organizations,
    industry groups, Republicans, Democrats, everyone wanted EPA to
    have the authority that it needed to protect families and
    workers all across this Country from unsafe chemicals. So
    getting that program off the ground and starting to write some
    of those protected chemical safety rules is one of my first
    priorities.
        Second, I would say it is about trust. I think in the past
    4 years, there was a lot of fantastic science that went on in
    the agency, but there were also some examples of times when the
    scientists were told to change their conclusions or exclude
    data or when people raised concerns were kicked out of meetings
    and told that they couldn't work on those things anymore. I
    think as a result, some of those decisions, again, not
    everything that happened in the last 4 years, but as a result
    of some of those decisions, when EPA says that a chemical or a
    pesticide can be used safely, sometimes people don't trust us.
        I think the public needs to trust us. That is not just good
    for the environment and for human health, I think it is also
    really important that the public has confidence in the products
    that companies make. And when we say the chemicals that they
    use are safe, they really are.
        So I think working to restore trust in what the agency says
    about the safety of chemicals and pesticides is one of my other
    top priorities that I hope to work on if confirmed.
        Senator Carper. Thank you for that, very much.
        Your daughters are sitting behind you over you left
    shoulder. The former chairman of this committee was a fellow
    from Wyoming, John Barrasso. He still serves in the Senate, but
    not in this committee. He and I love music, and we used to like
    to interplay musical lyrics when appropriate with the comments
    that we make from the dais.
        One of the songs we liked to quote was by a one-hit wonder
    named Thomas Dolby, She Blinded Me With Science. Some of you
    may remember that song, a great song. We don't need to be
    blinded by science; we need to be guided by science. I think we
    have in the witnesses here before us today adherence to that
    principles. I like to think we have on this committee and in
    the new Administration a real strong desire to be guided by
    science. Thank you for that.
        Top priority, Ms. Fox, please.
        Ms. Fox. Thank you, Senator. I had a chance to talk a
    little bit earlier about some of the priorities around
    implementing our infrastructure programs well, PFAS,
    affordability. I want to add a couple. One is, and to really
    build on Lee Howell's point, and this is something that talk
    about quite often, is really the tremendous career staff that
    exists across all of the offices at EPA.
        I think one of my internal priorities is really around
    supporting them, building their morale. We have a big agenda
    when it comes to water. They have decades and decades of
    experience. So that will be a big internal priority.
        Another internal priority that I have if confirmed goes
    back to what Senator Whitehouse said earlier around science.
    One of the first things that I did was meet with our scientific
    integrity official. I got briefed on concerns that had been
    raised around scientific integrity over the previous
    administration. I issued a memo to the entire Office of Water
    to say, if there are every concerns around scientific integrity
    there will always be an open door policy.
        So I think in addition to pursuing the big water agenda
    that President Biden and Vice President Harris has laid out for
    us to also do the internal work, so that we have a strong,
    productive work force that is value and respected for all of
    their contributions. That would be another big priority of
    mine.
        Senator Carper. All right. Thank you, Ms. Fox.
        Ms. Estenoz.
        Ms. Estenoz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        My priorities roughly fall into three categories. Sticking
    with our alliteration theme, they are policy, program, and
    people. I too am a music fan, and Stephen Stills is very
    important to me.
        Senator Carper. Something's Happening Here.
        Ms. Estenoz. Something is happening here, indeed. So my
    policy priorities are the President's and the Secretary's
    policy priorities. So if I am confirmed, my job will be to help
    the National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service
    contribute to our efforts to tackle climate change, our efforts
    to increase equal access to nature, to tell all of America's
    stories, to recommit ourselves to our government-to-government
    trust responsibility to tribes, and to build back better by
    investing in our infrastructure and our public lands, our
    coastal resilience, so many of the issues that we have heard
    today.
        Programmatically, I think right off the bat my priority is
    going to be the implementation of the Great American Outdoors
    Act and the fully funded Land and Water Conservation Fund, a
    huge responsibility.
        Senator Carper. That should be a lot of fun.
        Ms. Estenoz. I am already having fun and looking forward to
    more. The commitment that the Congress made last year, I and so
    many Americans are so grateful for it. It is really now our job
    to make sure that we squeeze every ounce of value out of every
    single dollar and we get it on the landscape, working for the
    American people.
        Speaking of people, my other priority is supporting our
    career work force. Our people have had a rough year, just like
    every other American has had a rough year. The National Park
    Service is facing what could be one of the busiest summers for
    our national parks and national wildlife refuges in the history
    of those services.
        So part of my priority will be to ensure that they feel
    supported and that they have the tools that they need to
    welcome America back to our public lands over the next year, as
    we come out of this COVID crisis and take refuge in the
    beautiful places that the services that I have the pleasure of
    working with are responsible for. So thank you so much for the
    question, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Carper. Senator Markey I am told is on his way. I
    don't want to disappoint him by leaving him an empty room.
    Hopefully, he will make it soon.
        While we are waiting for another minute or two, there is
    question I like to ask sometime when we have time. Is there a
    question you wish you would have been asked that you have not
    been asked by anyone on this panel? We will start with Dr.
    Freedhoff, is there a question you wish you had been asked, but
    you didn't get it?
        Ms. Freedhoff. I am sorry, Senator, you wanted to know what
    question----
        Senator Carper. Yes, what is a question you would like to
    have been asked that no one has asked you?
        Ms. Freedhoff. I would like to have been asked how the
    agency responded to COVID. The reason for that is because my
    part of the agency literally dropped everything in order to
    respond to the virus. About 100 of our career scientists
    stopped what they were doing and focused all their efforts onto
    approving about 550 different disinfectants that were certified
    as effective against COVID, and also helped support the
    agency's efforts to crack down on fraudulent claims made by
    companies about COVID products.
        They really rose to the challenge and met it. It was very
    important for both the Country and the agency that they did so.
        Senator Carper. Thank you. Next time, we will ask that
    question. Senator Markey has joined us. Senator.
        Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I apologize to
    you.
        Senator Carper. Glad you could make it.
        Senator Markey. We are still in the midst of the Commerce
    Committee markup. We used to say in Boston, Wednesdays are
    Prince Spaghetti Day. Now we just say, Wednesday is a day when
    every committee meets simultaneously. And you can be
    omniscient, but you cannot be ubiquitous. So I apologize to you
    for not being here.
        Dr. Freedhoff, back in 2016, you worked with me on the
    issue of PCBs which contaminate as many as 25,000 schools
    across the Country despite being banned by the EPA in 1979.
    Students should be learning their ABCs, not their PCBs. That is
    still a situation in the Country right now.
        So I am planning on reintroducing the Get Toxic Substances
    Out of Schools Act, which would reauthorize and expand Title 5
    of TSCA to help schools remove PCBs and other toxic substances.
    Are you going to be working on that issue? I would love to
    partner with you in moving legislation that could give you more
    power to deal with that issue.
        Ms. Freedhoff. Thanks very much, Senator Markey. I
    appreciated talking to you about this as well, earlier in the
    week. It is funny, one of the first calls that I had with our
    acting regional administrators, it was just an opportunity to
    get to know them all. More than half of them, I would say, from
    all across the Country, raised this very issue with me. Because
    you are absolutely right, it is not just PCBs, it is asbestos
    and it is other toxic substances as well.
        The challenge that they really face is that as these
    schools age, the PCBs and the asbestos are released, and
    actually have in the past exposed both teachers and students. A
    lot of time also these schools are in economically and
    otherwise underserved communities that are also at risk of
    other environmental exposures in dipropionate ways compared to
    other communities.
        So I think there is great interest at the agency in working
    with you on this. I look forward to it.
        Senator Markey. Thank you. I appreciate it.
        And you know, there is kind of a way of looking at these
    environmental issues which says, oh, my goodness, they are so
    expensive, they are going to create real problems in our
    society if we really try to remediate it. But the other side of
    the coin is, it is a job creator for construction, painting,
    and other occupations that will have to go in and do this work.
        Can you talk about that a little bit?
        Ms. Freedhoff. Yes, I think you are absolutely right,
    Senator, to raise that. I would add additionally on that, a lot
    of State budgets are probably pretty challenged because of what
    they have gone through in the past year on COVID. I actually
    think that a lot of schools that might have been otherwise
    slated for remodeling or reconstruction are going to have to
    wait a lot longer, because of the challenges to State budgets.
        So I sort of see it as a win-win-win. It is a win for the
    environment, it is a win for jobs, and it is a win for the
    children and the teachers who are in those schools every day.
        Senator Markey. Yes. I thank you for that.
        In terms of using this funding that is going to be at the
    EPA and under your leadership to quickly evaluate dangerous
    chemicals, you may have already answered the question, but
    could you talk about that, how you are going to try to
    telescope the timeframe to deal with these issues under the
    constraints that exist statutorily?
        Dr. Freedhoff. I think that was one of the provisions that
    you cared the most about, as I recall, is making sure that the
    chemicals that EPA already knew they had concerns about were
    moved along at a faster timeframe. So what we are doing right
    now is we are taking sort of a forensic look back at the first
    10 risk evaluations that were completed in the last
    Administration. Our objective is to move as many of them as
    possible into rulemaking as quickly as we can.
        There may be times when we have to supplement some of them
    in order to make sure that the rules that flow from them are as
    protective and legally defensible as they need to be. But
    really, our focus is on giving Americans the chemical safety
    protections that everyone expected EPA to provide.
        Senator Markey. So as you are looking back at the previous
    Administration, there are flaws in the methodology which was
    used by the preceding Administration. And of course, our goal
    is to make sure that families are not exposed to asbestos, are
    not exposed to other dangerous chemicals. So how are we going
    to fix those flawed chemical risk evaluations completed by the
    previous Administration to ensure that they account for legacy
    exposures and use the best available science?
        Ms. Freedhoff. Well, the court, on legacy exposures there
    was actually a court decision telling the agency that the law
    clearly expected the agency to consider legacy exposures. That
    was about the asbestos risk evaluation, and the agency is
    certainly going to abide by that court decision.
        But more generally, I think the expectation in TSCA was the
    EPA would study the chemicals comprehensively. That means
    knowing whether people are getting exposed from the air, from
    the water, from the disposal of those chemicals.
        So what we are doing now is we are going through those
    first 10 pretty intensively. But we also recognize that the
    point of TSCA was to write chemical safety rules that were
    protective. So what we want to do is move past the risk
    evaluation phase and into the protection phase of our activity
    just as quickly as we can.
        Senator Markey. So when I entered Congress, I had Chelsea,
    which was the poorest and most vulnerable community in New
    England, had huge exposure to lead. That was like the first
    project that I worked on, again, poorest community in New
    England. We saw during the Coronavirus pandemic that Chelsea
    has extremely high asthma rates, and as a result, it made them
    more vulnerable to the Coronavirus.
        When we were working together on Woburn and the toxic site
    in Woburn, that goes back to the 1970's when the EPA and other
    agencies were just turning a blind eye, which ultimately led to
    the creation of the Superfund law, which I was proud to be a
    part of in 1981, in getting that law on the books.
        Senator Carper. Senator Markey, your time is expired. We
    will run into overtime and we are running out of time on the
    floor. So if you want to wrap it up really quickly.
        Senator Markey. I will wrap up quickly. Environmental
    justice, Dr. Freedhoff, how can we ensure that it is built into
    every single part of the activities taken by this
    Administration?
        Ms. Freedhoff. I appreciate the question. You know what?
    Congress told us to study potentially exposed and susceptible
    subpopulations. We have to consider those subpopulations every
    time we study a chemical. I do think we could be doing more
    with that authority than has been done in the past
    Administration.
        I think one thing we are really focused on now with those
    first 10 is really looking at whether there are fence-line
    communities, communities that have been disproportionately
    exposed to pollution from chemical companies and other things,
    and seeing whether there is more that we need to do to
    supplement those risk evaluations as we move to rulemaking.
        Senator Markey. You are going to do a great job. Thank you.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Carper. Senator Markey, I would ask you just to
    stay in the room for another minute before you go, and I will
    go with you.
        Let me just close by saying how pleased I am, in talking to
    my colleagues as they come and go. Almost without exception the
    comments are just, you have really won the hearts of your moms
    and dads and maybe even your daughters. Very, very good job. We
    have been fortunate to hear from three outstanding nominees for
    critical roles in the Environmental Protection Agency in the
    Department of Interior. You are experienced, you are
    intelligent, and you are committed public servants.
        I want to close by thanking you all once again for your
    willingness to share your wisdom, your expertise, and inclusive
    instincts with our Nation. And 3 days after Mother's Day, our
    thanks to the moms that brought you into the room, and maybe
    your dads and husbands might be sharing you with us, your
    children, sharing you with all of us.
        I would like to ask unanimous consent to submit for the
    record a variety of materials, including letters from
    stakeholders and other materials that relate to today's
    nomination hearing. Without objection.
        [The referenced information follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Carper. Senators will be allowed to submit
    questions for the record through close of business on Friday,
    this Friday, May 14th. We will compile those questions, send
    them to our witnesses, and ask our witnesses to reply to us by
    Wednesday, May the 19th. If you could do that, that would be
    very helpful.
        With that, it is a wrap. We thank you all again. The
    hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 12:23 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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