[Senate Hearing 117-142]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                       S. Hrg. 117-142

                  THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE 
                  U.S. FOREST SERVICE FOR FISCAL YEAR 2022

=======================================================================

                                 HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             JUNE 17, 2021

                               __________
                               
                               
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                               

                       Printed for the use of the
               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                              __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
44-961                     WASHINGTON : 2022                     
          
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               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon                    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington           JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico          STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine            JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado       CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
                                     ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas

                      Renae Black, Staff Director
                      Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
             Bryan Petit, Senior Professional Staff Member
             Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
              Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
                   James Willson, Republican Counsel
                     Darla Ripchensky, Chief Clerk
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West 
  Virginia.......................................................     1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from 
  Wyoming........................................................     2

                                WITNESS

Christiansen, Victoria, Chief, U.S. Forest Service...............     3

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Barrasso, Hon. John:
    Opening Statement............................................     2
    Washington Times article entitled ``Biden's public-lands pick 
      runs into GOP buzz saw over links to timber sabotage'' by 
      Valerie Richardson, dated 6/16/2021........................    15
    Wall Street Journal article entitled ``A Biden Nominee's 
      Radical Past'' by James Freeman, dated 6/15/2021...........    20
    Daily Caller article entitled ``Biden Bureau of Land 
      Management Nominee Tracy Stone-Manning Was Involved In 
      `Eco-Terrorism' Case, Resulted In College Roommate's 
      Conviction, Prison Sentence, Court Records Show'' by Andrew 
      W. Kerr, dated 6/11/2021...................................    23
    AP News article entitled ``Biden nominee linked to 1989 
      sabotage draws Republican ire'' by Matthew Brown, dated 6/
      11/2021....................................................    29
    Fox News article entitled ``Land Management nominee 
      `collaborated with eco-terrorists,' traded testimony for 
      immunity'' by Houston Keene, dated 6/16/21.................    33
Christiansen, Victoria:
    Opening Statement............................................     3
    Written Testimony............................................     5
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    59
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
Outdoor Alliance:
    Statement for the Record.....................................    78

 
 THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE FOR FISCAL 
                               YEAR 2022

                              ----------                              


                        THURSDAY, JUNE 17, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m. in 
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin 
III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA

    The Chairman. The meeting will come to order. This morning 
we will be discussing the Fiscal Year 2022 budget for the U.S. 
Forest Service. But before we get underway, I would like to 
take a moment to recognize Chief Vicki Christiansen. I 
appreciate you being here this morning, especially given your 
announcement last week that you will be retiring and I would 
like to take this opportunity on behalf of the entire Committee 
here to say thank you. Thank you for a job well done and such 
dedicated service to the people of America. We appreciate it. 
We just need more ``Vicki Christi-
ansen's.'' I know that serving as the agency's Chief has been 
not an easy task, so I want to thank you for your leadership. 
Over the last few years, you have helped me address a range of 
issues from ensuring wounded warriors had the access they 
needed for hunting on the George Washington and Jefferson 
National Forests to facilitating the reopening of the 
Timberline Mountain Resort in the Monongahela National Forest. 
I appreciate that very much. So I wish you the best in 
retirement, and we will give it one last shot here, Chief--you 
can leave a lasting impression, okay?
    I will now turn to the purpose of today's hearing, the 
President's proposal for the Fiscal Year 2022 Forest Service 
budget. Rural communities across the country depend on our 
national forests. They provide timber resources and 
opportunities for recreation and thereby support jobs in local 
communities. I understand the President's budget requests a $1 
billion increase for Forest Service programs above what 
Congress appropriated last year. I look forward to learning why 
these increases are needed and for what, specifically, this 
money would be used. I am glad to see the President's 
commitment to investing in solutions to address climate change 
reflected in this year's budget request. Our Committee recently 
held a hearing with top scientists and practitioners on the 
significant roles that forests and active forest management can 
play in sequestering carbon emissions and the science is clear. 
Proactive management, including activities such as 
reforestation, thinning and prescribed fire, can both prevent 
carbon emissions and significantly increase carbon absorption.
    Earlier this week, Ranking Member Barrasso and I sent a 
letter to President Biden requesting that he provide additional 
direction to the federal land management agencies, including 
the Forest Service, for two things: to ensure management 
decisions concerning our forests are being made consistent with 
the current science, and to tell us what more can be done to 
enable our forests to better sequester and store carbon. You 
can expect to see more coming out of our Committee in the weeks 
ahead on this. A different example of investing in climate 
solutions that was included in your budget request is the $100 
million proposal for plugging orphan oil and gas wells and 
remediating abandoned mine lands. There are thousands of 
leaking orphan wells on the national forests, particularly in 
the East. In West Virginia, there are currently over 170,000 
acres of unreclaimed, abandoned mine lands. I understand there 
are over 40,000 abandoned mine land sites on the national 
forests across the country, and I appreciate your agency 
wanting to make investments to restore these sites.
    Finally, I would like to remind everyone that the Senate 
passed the Great American Outdoors Act one year ago today. In 
this one law, we provided full funding, $900 million per year, 
for the programs funded by the Land and Water Conservation Fund 
and provided $9.5 billion for the Forest Service and the 
Department of the Interior to address the backlog of deferred 
maintenance. I want to thank my colleagues here, especially 
Senators Daines and Heinrich, who worked together to get this 
important bill enacted into law.
    With that, I'll turn to my dear friend, Ranking Member 
Barrasso for his opening statement.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING

    Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for 
holding today's hearing on the Forest Service budget request 
for Fiscal Year 2022. I will tell you, Chief Christiansen, I 
just want to add my accolades to those from Senator Manchin. I 
want to thank you for many years of service, remarkable 
service, and I want to congratulate you on a very long and 
distinguished and accomplished career. On behalf of the people 
of my home state and, I think, on behalf of the entire U.S. 
Senate, let us thank you--we appreciate it. All of us on the 
Committee wish you the very best, and we hope you are going to 
enjoy your upcoming retirement.
    Last month, this Committee held a very informative hearing 
with top forestry experts to discuss the vital role that forest 
management must play in improving our nation's forests and 
preventing devastating wildfires. The message from the hearing 
was clear. Simply being reactive, waiting for disaster to 
strike, is not a successful strategy. We need proactive forest 
management, for America's forests and economies, and for our 
communities. Chief Christiansen, I know you agree with all of 
this. You are shaking your head, yes. In April, you testified 
in an Appropriations hearing that the Forest Service must 
increase active forest management efforts and that a paradigm 
shift, as you said, is needed. Now I am interested to hear how 
elements of this new budget request might help bring about this 
badly needed turnaround. At the same time, I am deeply troubled 
with the Biden Administration's massive requested increase for 
federal spending. With respect to the proposed Forest Service 
budget, I would like to know why the requested $1 billion 
increase is necessary and whether the proposed spending is 
carefully targeted for maximum efficiency.
    I support robust funding for the agency's wildfire 
preparedness, suppression, and mitigation efforts. I do not 
believe, though, we can simply spend our way out of problems 
that have plagued our forests for decades. So I am interested 
in creative solutions to promote healthier forests, 
collaborating with people on the ground, and this includes, of 
course, our ranchers, our state foresters, and our industry 
partners. I would also like to hear whether legal challenges 
and red tape are some of the barriers that you face in making 
the Forest Service's dollars go as far as they could and 
should.
    Many of us here today also want to know how this budget is 
going to help the Forest Service prepare for fire season. Last 
summer was a truly devastating wildfire season across America. 
In Wyoming, the Mullen fire was one of the largest fires on 
record in our state. Several states, including states 
represented on this very Committee, experienced some of their 
largest wildfires ever in 2020. According to the Secretary of 
Agriculture, the signals and indications are that we are headed 
to yet another very dangerous fire year. Ensuring that our 
firefighters have the resources they need to effectively and 
safely do their jobs is of paramount importance. Recently, all 
of Wyoming was extremely saddened about the loss of a Wyoming 
Forest Service smoke jumper, Tim Hart. He lived with his family 
in Cody, Wyoming. We are indebted to brave firefighters like 
Tim who put their lives on the line every day. They protect 
people's lives and livelihoods.
    So again, Chief Christiansen, thanks so much for being 
here, for your long career of successfully serving the American 
people.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to the testimony.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
    Now, let me welcome our witness today, Ms. Vicki 
Christiansen, for her opening statement.

              STATEMENT OF VICTORIA CHRISTIANSEN, 
                   CHIEF, U.S. FOREST SERVICE

    Ms. Christiansen. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member 
Barrasso, members of the Committee, thank you so much for the 
invitation to be here. Today, I'll highlight the work we're 
doing to serve the American people and share how it lines up 
with the Administration's highest priorities. I'll share our 
resolve to employ science to tackle climate change, fight 
wildfires, and sustain productive resilient forests. We are 
also doing our part to spur job growth and rebuild 
infrastructure. Last, I will talk on our work to advance racial 
equity and create an inclusive workplace.
    As I begin, please allow me to reassure you, the Forest 
Service is always willing to come before this Committee and 
account for our work. It is our privilege to work closely with 
you to steward our nation's forests and extend service to the 
American people. And as I pass the baton to the next Chief, I 
assure you our strong commitment to working with each one of 
you will not change.
    I'm proud to say that last year, despite the pandemic as 
well as historical natural disasters, the Forest Service rose 
to the challenge. We hosted 200 percent more forest visitors as 
they sought respite from the surge of the pandemic, and we 
delivered on our mission. The long-term challenge we must 
confront is the crisis facing America's forests and grasslands. 
This crisis results from a changing climate. It induces severe 
wildfires, droughts, insects, disease, and invasive species. 
The severity and the frequency of wildfires is increasing 
significantly, impacting our nation's forests at an 
unprecedented rate and destroying homes and businesses. The 
2020 fire year became a call to action. We saw the most acres 
burned on Forest Service lands since the big burn of 1910. We 
must have a paradigm shift.
    Under the President's jobs plan, President Biden is calling 
on Congress to significantly invest in the protection from 
extreme wildfire. After confronting record wildfires last year, 
we do expect another long and arduous fire year in 2021. In 
recent days we've seen more fire outbreaks, and we deployed 
more resources. We are prepared, but remain deeply concerned 
about the welfare and the pay of our thousands of firefighters. 
We're grateful for your help in finding solutions that address 
the safety of our firefighters as well as pay equity, fatigue 
and their mental well-being. There is so much at stake.
    As Senator Barrasso said, last weekend I was in Cody, 
Wyoming attending the memorial service of Tim Hart, our smoke 
jumper who died from injuries sustained while fighting a fire 
in New Mexico. I know we will all keep Tim's family, 
colleagues, and loved ones in our thoughts and prayers.
    Our infrastructure needs are pressing, as are the economic 
needs of Americans. When we improve the forest infrastructure 
by upgrading roads, trails, and recreation sites, it boosts 
economies, and thanks to the Great American Outdoors Act, we 
expect to create an additional 4,400 jobs and contribute 
roughly $420 million to the GDP annually. I understand 
expectations that come with the fire funding fix which went 
into effect in Fiscal Year 2020. Please know the Forest Service 
remains a good investment. We understand Congressional 
expectations for increasing accountability and oversight of our 
fire spending. This year we moved to a new budget structure. It 
will help us increase transparency and accountability of our 
spending.
    National forests and grasslands belong to every American. 
Every citizen should feel a personal invitation and a 
connection to their lands. Each American also deserves a 
motivated workforce that reflects our values, offers exemplary 
service and mirrors our population. We are committed to both, 
starting in our own house. The Forest Service continues its 
work to end harassment and create a work environment where 
every employee feels safe, valued, and respected.
    It's been a great honor to work with you. I look forward to 
your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Christiansen follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    The Chairman. Thank you, Chief. I will lead off with our 
questions.
    My first is that I notice in your budget proposal that the 
funding for buildings, roads and facilities remains flat 
compared to last year. However, I also noticed that you no 
longer distinguish in your budget proposal between how much of 
this funding will be used for maintaining your existing 
infrastructure and how much will be used for building new 
buildings, roads and facilities--so taking care of deferred but 
also increasing new. The Great American Outdoors Act provides 
you an additional $285 million annually over five years to 
address your deferred maintenance backlog which has been 
estimated at $5.2 billion. I want to make sure that you will 
use the money requested in the budget to maintain what you 
currently have or at least the extent that the remaining $4 
billion backlog does not continue to grow.
    How much of your proposed funding for buildings, roads and 
facilities will go toward maintenance versus new construction?
    Ms. Christiansen. Let me break that apart just a little 
bit, Senator, and I really appreciate the question. The Great 
American Outdoors Act--the $285 million annually provided is a 
great start. And we have an updated number regarding deferred 
maintenance: we now have a $5.9 billion backlog--$3.85 billion 
is for transportation and just over $2 billion is for our non-
transportation resources--our admin facilities, our recreation 
and communication sites, and all the rest. And a significant 
criteria for the Great American Outdoors Act deferred 
maintenance projects is that the project must indicate how much 
deferred maintenance the project is going to alleviate. So 
there's an example in your state, the Sherwood Campground 
Rehabilitation, which is a significant project funded out of 
the Great American Outdoors Act where we're investing $750,000 
from the Legacy Restoration Fund, but it will take care of $1.1 
million of deferred maintenance. In regards to our regular 
budget, it is flat, and it's not enough to get after our 
backlog, but we'd be happy to work with the Committee on how we 
can do a better job at that, Senator.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    You also mentioned in your budget justification that the 
Forest Service is the first federal law enforcement agency to 
require all of its law enforcement officers to wear body 
cameras. So that everyone knows what we are talking about, the 
Forest Service has implemented a nationwide body-worn camera 
and video evidence storage system. Why did you decide to do 
this, and what was the cost?
    Ms. Christiansen. It's for accountability and transparency, 
Senator.
    The Chairman. How have the law enforcement officers 
received this? Are they okay? Are they giving you any pushback?
    Ms. Christiansen. No, I mean, yes, change is always 
something that we have to work through together, but overall, 
they are very receptive. We've been working on it for the last 
couple of years. They knew it was coming. We did some testing 
in particular units. We had employee workgroups to answer their 
questions. So we really worked on the change management model 
and----
    The Chairman. It is working.
    Ms. Christiansen [continuing]. We're proud of our efforts.
    The Chairman. Great. Let me ask this question. This is off 
the cuff. You know, a lot of the forest fires have been 
horrible, and right now, the season has started off 
horrifically from what I am seeing out West right now. Everyone 
is getting hit because of the heat wave. I also have concerns 
about how much timber that we just let go to waste after it is 
killed in these wildfires. Is there any desire by your 
Department to work and accelerate extracting some of that 
timber after it burns? It will not regrow, but we can still use 
it for the market.
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, absolutely. We work with 
our multiple partners. I'll give you an example----
    The Chairman. I guess, explaining why it's taking so long--
why we had reports here that so much is wasted because by the 
time they get permits to go in it's too late.
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, well we have to prioritize where 
we're going to go--with the danger trees first that will have 
life and safety implications to our employees and the public. 
So we have some expedited environmental clearance processes. We 
still go through the environmental clearance to make sure we're 
making science-based decisions, and we are----
    The Chairman. That is to cut down a burnt tree that is 
dead?
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, sir.
    The Chairman. What are they evaluating? It is dead. It is 
going to fall over and rot, or we can use it.
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, it can provide benefits in the 
ecosystem as well as soil stabilization.
    The Chairman. If you could, give me some reports on what 
you do? I will say this, with all due respect. It just seems 
like it is ridiculous that we do not salvage more and are able 
to use that timber for a productive use that would be helping 
the economy. It helps, basically, the cost of timber for 
building, but also, it's a resource we are wasting.
    Ms. Christiansen. We do salvage restoration, Senator, but 
not every----
    The Chairman. Every forest fire?
    Ms. Christiansen [continuing]. Not on every tree that dies, 
depending on where it is and very steep terrain, et cetera.
    The Chairman. Okay. Thank you.
    Ms. Christiansen. You're welcome.
    The Chairman. Senator Barrasso.
    Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.
    As I mentioned earlier, we may be headed toward another 
devastating wildfire season this year, and we are already 
seeing dangerous wildfires in and around Wyoming. The Robertson 
Draw fire is continuing to spread in the Bear Tooth Mountains 
just north of the Wyoming border. The fire has already 
triggered evacuations and threatens to cause further disruption 
and damage. Earlier this week, Chairman Manchin and I sent a 
letter to President Biden asking that wildfire mitigation 
efforts be increased by orders of magnitude.
    Do we need to dramatically increase the amount of acreage 
that is treated annually?
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, we do.
    Senator Barrasso. You said that a paradigm shift is needed. 
What would that look like?
    Ms. Christiansen. We can't just do the same old thing we've 
always done of treating whatever acres we can get to. We have a 
crisis. We have a crisis that needs to be addressed 
differently. We treat about three million acres each year on 
our National Forest System lands, and we need to do two to four 
times more than that. We have a scale mismatch. There's a 
billion burnable acres in this nation across all land 
ownerships, and fire is a natural part and necessary part in 
many ecosystems. But we have too much fuel on the lands today, 
continuous fuel on the landscape that is causing these 
catastrophic, severe wildfires.
    So with two to four times more treatment over the next 10 
years, we can significantly change the trajectory back into a 
resilient balance of the most critical fire sheds, particularly 
in the West.
    Senator Barrasso. On another topic, according to the data 
recently provided by the Black Hills National Forest which 
spans Wyoming and South Dakota, a substantial portion of the 
forest is at high risk of insect infestation and 
uncharacteristically severe wildfires. What steps is the Forest 
Service taking to address those forest conditions in the Black 
Hills and retain the forest products companies, which have been 
critical to fighting the Mountain Pine Beetle and reducing 
wildfire hazard?
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, you're absolutely right, as 
demonstrated by the timber harvest levels over the last 10 
years. The Black Hills National Forest was close to or a little 
over their allowable sale quantity in their current forest 
plan. The Forest had been aggressively working to deal with the 
impacts of the beetle outbreak that you referred to that has 
occurred on the landscape for the last 15 years and the 
majority of those impacts have been dealt with and the Forest 
is positioned to move forward to tend to the younger stands and 
create sustainable forest management harvest levels. And the 
industry is a critical, critical tool and partner to make that 
happen.
    Senator Barrasso. I want to turn to the topic of tree 
spiking. A Washington Post article 30 years ago, in 1990, 
called tree spiking an ``eco-terrorist tactic.'' The article 
went on to label it as a type of guerrilla warfare saying, 
quote, this is the Washington Post, ``Tree spikes are among the 
most vicious of the strategies. While the tree is still in the 
forest, a spike is driven in at an angle so the head is hidden 
in the bark. It can shatter a chain saw on impact sending 
pieces of razor-sharp steel flying.''
    Can spiked trees pose a physical danger to firefighters and 
to loggers and to other forestry workers?
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, I believe they could.
    Senator Barrasso. So if someone were made aware of a tree 
spiking incident in a national forest, should that person 
immediately alert the police or the Forest Service?
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Barrasso. So Tracy Stone-Manning is President 
Biden's nominee for the Bureau of Land Management. She was 
presented with this very choice and decided not to do the right 
thing and go to the authorities. Today's front-page story in 
the Washington Times that I'm going to submit for the record is 
entitled, ``Tree Spiking Case Haunts Nominee for Public 
Lands.''
    [The online version of the article referred to, with 
different title than the print version quoted by the Senator 
follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Senator Barrasso. This states Tracy Stone-Manning could 
have told law enforcement after she learned that a friend had 
driven railroad spikes into trees to stop a timber sale in 
Idaho's Clearwater National Forest, but she did not.
    The article goes on. Instead, Ms. Stone-Manning rented a 
typewriter and rewrote the anonymous letter to the U.S. Forest 
Service describing the locations of the booby-trapped trees. 
She corrected spelling errors, removed some profanity. At her 
friend's request, she mailed the letter.
    Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent. The Washington 
Times is not the only outlet to cover this shocking story of a 
President Biden nominee. I ask unanimous consent to enter the 
following articles into the record:

--From the Wall Street Journal under the headline, ``A Biden 
Nominee's Radical Past'';
    [The Wall Street Journal article referred to follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
--From the Daily Caller, ``Biden Bureau of Land Management 
Nominee Tracy Stone-Manning Was Involved in `Eco-Terrorism' 
Case, Resulted in College Roommate's Conviction, Prison 
Sentence, Court Records Show'';
    [The Daily Caller article referred to follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
--A story from the Associated Press, ``Biden nominee linked to 
1989 sabotage draws Republican ire'';
    [The Associated Press article referred to follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
--And from Fox News, ``Land Management nominee `collaborated 
with eco-terrorists,' traded testimony for immunity.''
    [The Fox News article referred to follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Barrasso. Mr. Chairman, it is my belief that she is 
clearly disqualified to be the Director of the Bureau of Land 
Management, which manages almost 65 million acres of federal 
forests.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you for your answers.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Now we have Senator Wyden.
    Senator Wyden. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    First, I want everybody to understand how those of us who 
live in the West are so grateful to Vicki Christiansen for 
decades of extraordinary public service. You have been there 
for our communities again and again. God speed for a much-
earned retirement.
    Now I want to tell you about the last couple of weeks 
because I have been all over Oregon talking to your folks on 
the ground, and it is hard to really convey the urgency of what 
they are telling us here on this Committee. I have been through 
a number of fire seasons. When I was in Medford, the hottest 
day in history, and the weather service calls and says it is 
the highest in a warning level they can give; and this 
Committee, as you know, I was Chair, we always have said we are 
going to get you the technologies--get you tankers or drones. 
And as you know, Senator Crapo and I wrote the fire borrowing 
law so you could focus on prevention. We have always said we'll 
be there with you for your needs on the ground and that 
continues.
    Now given the seriousness of what we are faced with this 
year, I want to kind of walk you through what I think we are 
dealing with and get your plan for it. What you all have 
historically done is always tried to share resources. So when 
one area is hit hard, folks from another area, I see my friend 
from, you know, Nevada here, so our area is hit, they help, 
vice versa. This year in the West we could be looking at the 
prospect of multiple fires, big ones, at the same time. So tell 
us first, what is your plan for making sure that we can share 
the resources, get more, and we're prepared to do it? I think 
you will recall, you know, one year I was a junior member of 
this Committee. Senator Bingaman, I believe sat where Chairman 
Manchin is and I basically talked everybody into ordering some 
tankers on the floor. In other words, we asked consent and 
everybody said we need them.
    So what is the plan for making sure we can keep people safe 
when there are fires in multiple communities at the same time 
in the West?
    Ms. Christiansen. Thank you very much for your wishes and 
your call to action and the urgency, Senator. I absolutely 
agree with you. I'm worried about our employees, our 
contractors, the people that work these lands and work these 
fires. I'm very concerned about the communities and the 
landscapes. And you're right, we call them preparedness levels, 
one through five and the highest being five. We are seeing more 
and more days in preparedness level four and five and that 
means there's multiple geographical areas with high amounts of 
fire and, quite frankly, for longer durations. And our ability 
to have these surge capacities and move our resources around, 
we have a competition for resources. In the last three to four 
years, in particular, we have had more than several 
circumstances--we call them, ``unable to fill resources''.
    So we need a 21st century workforce and equipment and 
technology. Thanks to the work with this Committee, we're 
making some progress. We have a modernized airtanker fleet. We 
are making some steps forward with our limited capacity of 
resources, with advancing technology. We need more of a year-
round workforce. But I will say it: our system is at a breaking 
point. We aren't changing as rapidly as we can.
    Senator Wyden. It is very helpful. I just have one other 
question that I know is important to you as well. Could you get 
to us, through Chairman Manchin and the Ranking Member, a 
written statement on what the plans are if we are short of 
resources in the West? Could you get that to me and my 
colleagues, the Chair and the Ranking Member, within a week?
    Ms. Christiansen. We'd be happy to do that, Senator.
    Senator Wyden. Great.
    My last question is, I gather you all have been doing some 
good work to crunch some numbers with respect to hazardous 
fuels and what it would take to actually get ahead of hazardous 
fuels loading and you have been looking at how much per acre it 
might cost, and we have been doing the math, and I gather it 
might be a thousand dollars per acre for 20 million acres. And 
that you all are estimating what is needed to get in front of 
the hazardous fuels challenge and the buildup is enormous. 
They're magnets for fire. It might cost $20 billion. Is that 
your current figure based on your estimates, Chief?
    Ms. Christiansen. Over the next 10 years, $20 billion for 
this paradigm shift is accurate, Senator.
    Senator Wyden. Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to 
echo the congratulations of others and the heartfelt thanks for 
your service.
    Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
    Senator Lee. Chief Christiansen, in May we received 
testimony here in this Committee describing how forest 
management activities are often undertaken deliberately, 
intentionally, in order to bring about an increase in a 
forest's rate of carbon sequestration. Are you worried about 
the proposed reduction of timber volume sold, the reduction of 
the target to 3.4 billion board feet down from 4 billion board 
feet? Shouldn't we worry that that will negatively impact the 
carbon sequestration of our forests?
    Ms. Christiansen. Senator, the target for this proposed 
budget, 2022, is 3.4, you're correct. 3.2 billion board feet is 
what we delivered this year. So it would be an increase. There 
is more to forest management and treatment than just the board 
feet. It's in creating the resilience of the forest. So other 
treatments and harvesting timber and producing board feet is 
one treatment and it's a very important treatment. But the 
hazardous fuels treatments, so we can create resilience back 
into the forest so we don't have these catastrophic fires that 
put all this carbon up in the air and turn our forests into 
carbon sinks instead of carbon storage.
    So yes, it's the right balance of the strategic management 
of these fire sheds. If we treat 30 to 40 percent of a fire 
shed, we can reduce at least 80 percent of the risk and a part 
of that treatment is board feet, but not the only part.
    Senator Lee. As you know, the West is experiencing a 
devastating drought. Across the whole region, reservoir levels 
are at or near record lows and mountain snow pack, which slowly 
releases during the spring and summer months, is largely 
depleted. How did this consideration impact your funding 
request?
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, well, you will see an increase in 
funding for what we call our wildland fire preparedness. We 
currently support 10,000 firefighters, 900 engines, and up to 
35 large air tankers. But as I've said before, we need to 
modernize all of that, continue to modernize it. We need more 
professional, we have professional people, a year-round 
workforce that can do these hazardous fuels treatments, they 
can do the prescribed fire and they can respond to wildland 
fire, so, and the technology. We're making some progress, but 
we are not keeping pace with the technology. So those are the 
things that will go into the report that we're happy to provide 
to this Committee.
    Senator Lee. Thank you.
    I noticed an increase of $50 million to be used for the 
wild horse and burro appropriate management level range 
restoration. The explanation states that, ``by reducing over-
grazing the Forest Service can promote native species and deter 
invasive species.'' These are very laudable goals; however, as 
you are likely aware, grazers in my state have already been 
forced to decrease their AUMs due to range conditions. Would 
this increase contribute to a restoration of producers' AUMs?
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, we believe it would. As you know, 
the appropriate management levels were way higher than they 
should be for the wild horses and burros. We do not have a line 
item at all in our budget. It comes completely out of our 
rangeland management. So this increase will help us get back 
into balance appropriately with wild horses and burros, and 
provide more AUMs for our ranchers and grazers, absolutely.
    Senator Lee. Removal and thinning of encroaching pinion 
juniper woodlands has proven to be highly effective in 
restoring healthy habitat, and also in increasing water 
resource capacity and decreasing the risk of devastating 
wildfires. However, such vegetation treatments are often 
mischaracterized by those who do not like them for whatever 
reason. They are often mischaracterized as deforestation. Do 
you anticipate an increase of those treatments to be performed 
under wildlife risk management accounts?
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator. As noted, $400 million is 
the requested increase in wildfire hazard mitigation and, just 
as we discussed, it's all treatments of the landscape to bring 
back the resilience and the watershed conditions. So we 
absolutely know there will be more treatments.
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Chief.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Kelly.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chief Christiansen, good morning. Arizona is leading the 
nation in wildfires this summer and nearly one quarter of a 
million acres have burned to date. Last weekend, I met 
evacuees, ranchers, tribal members and local officials who are 
reeling from the Mescal and Telegraph fires. The Telegraph fire 
whipped across 80,000 acres in four days. Now those two fires 
are connected and they continue to burn out of control. One 
fire manager was quoted in the press as saying, this is a 
quote. ``It's like having gasoline out there.'' Several homes 
have been lost and more remain in harm's way. A number of 
ranchers plan to sell their operations because the rangeland is 
destroyed. At this moment, over 1,000 firefighters are working 
in grueling, 110-degree days with one percent humidity.
    So Chief Christiansen, I need your assurances that all 
Forest Service resources will be brought to bear on this and to 
every fire threatening Arizona lives and properties.
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, you have my reassurance and 
my commitment.
    Senator Kelly. And then, after this, when we get the fires 
under control, we have erosion issues. How quickly do you think 
we can get some of these erosion-control projects deployed?
    Ms. Christiansen. Thank you for knowing that post-fire is 
just as important for health and safety and of course, the 
environment and our ecosystems. We have a BAER team, a Burned 
Area Emergency Rehabilitation team, that should be arriving on 
the fire today. They will do the initial assessment and then 
we'll do the immediate suppression repair and most critical 
post-fire recovery work as soon as we get their assessments and 
prioritization.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you. I really appreciate the quick 
response there.
    Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you very much.
    The northern and eastern parts of Arizona are densely 
forested and as a former Arizona state forester, I believe you 
understand that our ponderosa pine forests are drought stricken 
and unhealthy. We need to be restoring 30,000 acres of national 
forest every year for the next 20 years. I mean, that's the 
plan under the Forest Service's Four Forest Restoration 
Initiative, known as 4FRI. We have been waiting now five years 
for the Forest Service to release contract awards under the 
second phase of 4FRI. So Chief Christiansen, do you have an 
idea of when the Forest Service will issue this next round of 
4FRI contracts?
    Ms. Christiansen. Senator, you're absolutely right. It's 
complicated. It's complex, and we have to get it right to be 
able to attract the infrastructure and the industry that is 
absolutely needed to restore those forests. I get it. When I 
was state forester over 11 years ago, I was in on the ground 
floor of 4FRI, and my patience is also very tested. But, you 
know, to remain in compliance with the federal regulations on 
procurement integrity, I'm not able to share a lot more about 
the procurement process publicly. The plan is to make an award 
in June of this year, this month. However, we have also 
requested offers to extend their proposal acceptance period 
into July, if necessary.
    Senator Kelly. So you think the latest would be the end of 
July for those next phases of contracts to be awarded?
    Ms. Christiansen. We have extended that opportunity to the 
potential offers, yes.
    Senator Kelly. And are you involved in the selection 
process or is there some independent source board within the 
Forest Service doing that?
    Ms. Christiansen. My Deputy Chief for the National Forest 
System will have the final say, but we have a team evaluating 
these proposals.
    Senator Kelly. And I expect that one of the evaluation 
criteria is--will this contract lead to creating a market for 
these materials, whether they are some sort of building product 
or wood pellets?
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, capitalization of the infrastructure 
needed to create the market has been the barrier that we're 
really laser focused on how we can create that.
    Senator Kelly. Well, thank you, I appreciate that because 
without the market----
    Ms. Christiansen. That's right.
    Senator Kelly [continuing]. This has got to be run at a 
pace that we need to get to this 30,000 acres per year target.
    Ms. Christiansen. I hear you loud and clear.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Daines was next, but he is not here right now so we 
will go right to Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Great timing I say.
    The Chairman. Your great timing.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you.
    Chief Christiansen, I want to add my best wishes to you for 
a well-deserved retirement. Thank you for your service.
    As we have discussed in the past, Hawaii has greatly 
benefited from the Forest Service's help in combating the 
dangerous pathogen, Rapid Ohia Death, or ROD. I am glad to see 
that the Fiscal Year 2022 budget proposes a 14 percent increase 
for the state and private forestry account that has provided 
financial resources for addressing ROD in Hawaii. Can you talk 
about some actions that the Forest Service is taking to respond 
to emerging forest diseases in Hawaii and the Pacific Islands 
and is there a connection to climate change?
    Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator. I just really 
appreciate your focus on this very important tree species in 
Hawaii and, you know, it's part of the culture, it's a part of 
the watersheds, and it's a part of the life of Hawaii.
    Senator Hirono. Yes.
    Ms. Christiansen. And we are very committed to working on 
the Rapid Ohia disease and other pathogens across the Pacific 
Islands. As I think you know, we have the Institute for Pacific 
Island Forestry there in Hawaii, and we are hiring additional 
staff, for example, a quarantine officer at the Institute there 
and our small biocontrol facility in Volcano, Hawaii. We work 
very closely with the state, with ARS, and with APHIS within 
USDA; and we are working together on plans for a combined, 
larger and more contemporary bio control facility, one that 
will be able to do the critical research. We have some good 
leads on Rapid Ohia disease in bio controls, but by upping our 
game with additional investments, we see some great progress on 
the horizon.
    And yes, in general, we believe there is a linkage to 
climate change.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you. And the next question was going 
to be about the creation of a regional biological control 
research facility and consultation or discussion with ARS, 
APHIS and NRCS, so you are already doing that and I am really 
glad for that.
    As we talk about staffing and creating a better capacity 
for us to deal with these diseases, we discussed last year, a 
permanent forest pathologist to help the region address 
existing and emerging pests and pathogens. So is the Forest 
Service considering the hiring of a permanent forest 
pathologist assigned to the Pacific Southwest Research Station?
    Ms. Christiansen. Senator, we are moving forward with this 
professional scientist that may or may not be specifically a 
pathologist, but they'll have this pest and disease background 
to serve as a quarantine officer so the scientists that are 
onsite can focus on their core science and additionally, we are 
doing staffing, some human resource staffing plans for our 
whole research and development organization, and this is in the 
mix of our prioritization for a pathologist actually stationed 
in Hawaii.
    Senator Hirono. That is great news.
    One of the programs that is funded by the Land and Water 
Conservation Fund, which we have made permanent, is the Forest 
Service Forest Legacy Program for which the budget proposes 
$94.3 million in Fiscal Year 2022 and included in the FY22 list 
of proposed Forest Legacy projects is a project in Hawaii, the 
East Maui Forest Project, and I want to continue to work with 
my colleagues and the Forest Service to ensure that this 
particular project, as well as the other projects, are funded 
and continues to proceed.
    This is an interesting item that I wanted to point out. A 
2018 research article published in the Journal of Forestry 
revealed that racial and ethnic minorities utilize our national 
forests at lower rates than those of their white counterparts, 
and the article shows that though white Americans account for 
about 63 percent of the nation's population, 95 percent of 
individuals that visit national forests identified as white 
Americans. The research article further found that racially 
diverse areas are more likely to have higher inequality gaps. 
Our national forests and public lands need to serve our 
nation's diverse population. How does the Forest Service intend 
to improve the utilization of our national forests among racial 
and ethnic minorities and how can this Committee expand access 
to recreation opportunities on federal public lands to 
underrepresented populations?
    Ms. Christiansen. Oh, Senator, that's a really important 
question to me, and I know we're short on time. By doing that 
research, number one, is . . . we can't fix what we don't 
acknowledge, right?
    Senator Hirono. Exactly.
    Ms. Christiansen. So we have great researchers and we're 
opening our systems up to look at our barriers, not just doing 
programs, but to look at what's in the system. So we're doing 
workshops with different ethnic groups, Afro Outdoors, Corazon 
Latino and others to understand what the needs and the barriers 
are. Now there are some systems and structures that I think 
we're all responsible for. I think we all know we are under-
resourced for recreation, providing recreation on the National 
Forest System, especially with a 200 percent increase and more 
people are connecting with their lands. And if we are to 
increase revenues outside of our regular appropriations, what 
we have to do in the Forest Service is to increase the fees to 
enter these sites. Now that should be a red flag for all of us 
when we think about equal access for all people.
    So I appreciate opening the conversation. We'll be happy to 
work with you on how we can ensure all people have a connection 
to their lands.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you. We intend to do that.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    And now we have Senator Daines.
    Senator Daines. Chairman Manchin, thank you.
    Well, it is only June and Montanans are already being 
evacuated for wildfires. A conversation I had last night with 
law enforcement, county commissioners, and mayors are 
conversations that usually we have in August we are having in 
June. The front page of Montana papers today, so there is the 
Great Falls Tribune about the fire over by Red Lodge, same 
thing in the Billings Gazette, the Montana Standard out of 
Butte. These are the front-page stories.
    That Red Lodge fire is going over 24,000 acres. The Montana 
Forest Action Plan identified over 9 million acres with 
elevated fire risk and degraded forest health, but only 100,000 
acres are treated each year, 9 million acres, elevated risk. At 
this rate, it will take us 90 years to improve the health of 
our forest and that is only if everything was completely 
stagnant over the course of the next 90 years which, of course, 
we know is not true. This means we will continue to see homes 
and lives devastated by wildfires, wildlife driven from 
habitat, watersheds destroyed, and good-paying jobs lost. You 
have called for a paradigm shift in how we manage our forests 
to prevent this scenario and I could not agree more, Chief 
Christiansen.
    In recent months, there have been resounding calls from 
stakeholders across the entire political spectrum, various 
advocacy groups, to triple the annual acreage treated in our 
forests. That is why I was shocked that the Biden 
Administration would propose reducing the national timber 
volume from four billion board feet to 3.4 billion board feet. 
I don't get it. As you are well aware, Chief Christiansen, 
Region 1 is expected to miss this year's volume target by more 
than 60 million board feet. The time we have seen lumber prices 
hit historic highs, wildfires raging, but even if Montana did 
meet our timber targets, the total volume would amount to just 
over half of the allowable sale quantity called for in our 
forest plans.
    Chief Christiansen, how are we going to create this 
paradigm shift in forest management to prevent and reduce the 
risk of catastrophic wildfires while at the same time, reducing 
timber volume targets?
    Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator.
    I had a similar conversation with Senator Lee and I know 
you weren't, I don't believe you were in the room. Timber 
volume is a very important land management treatment tool and 
we produce 3.2 billion board feet of timber that was sold last 
year and this FY22 budget proposes that we sell 3.4 billion 
board feet. So it is an increase from what we have done. But 
additionally, as these fire threats, as the resilience of the 
landscape where we have too much vegetation across the 
landscape, yes, timber management is one of the tools, but 
other treatments, the call to action, the paradigm shift is 
treating two to four times more acres. That includes prescribed 
fire, targeted grazing, hazardous fuels reduction, watershed 
improvements. It's all of those in combination, strategically 
placed on a fire shed. We treat 30 to 40 percent of a fire shed 
which is a component of timber management, we can bring those 
fire sheds back into balance and resilience and limit the 
amount of catastrophic fire that we're seeing on the landscape.
    Senator Daines. Thank you for that. As you are well aware, 
Chief Christiansen, Region 1 is expected to miss their timber 
targets due to litigation that has led to a backlog of ESA 
consultations. One project in Montana took two and a half years 
to analyze, resulting in 21 reports, over 800 pages of analysis 
for a project that was thinning 320 acres per year over 10 
years. Despite all this work, this project is now under 
litigation. And again, the frustrating part is we get 
stakeholders across the spectrum, conservation groups, as well 
as local officials, supporting these projects and then these 
outside groups with deep pockets come in and litigate.
    Don't you agree that we must address the issues on our 
forest holistically? And one of those measures is to seek to 
remove some of the red tape and these frivolous lawsuits.
    Ms. Christiansen. Senator, I can say that the notice of 
intent to sue and the enormous amount of additional analysis, 
not just by our agency, by U.S. Fish and Wildlife and others, 
does set these important projects back significantly and we 
would like to work out a way that we have good public 
processes, we have environmental clearances that are 
responsible and science-based and all people have a voice but 
that we don't hold ourselves up for years getting this 
important work done on the ground.
    Senator Daines. I know I am running out of time and there 
is a lot more to talk about, Chief, but I want to thank you for 
your service. It has been really appreciated. We have enjoyed 
working with you. You were instrumental in the Great American 
Outdoors Act, working there with several of my colleagues to 
include some Forest Service maintenance backlog as well. I 
think that was a great improvement on the bill. I am grateful 
for your dedication to improving the health of our forests as 
well as our employees and protecting our communities. So I wish 
you the very best in your well-deserved retirement.
    Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator Daines.
    The Chairman. Senator Cortez Masto.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Chief, thank you. I, too, want to 
thank you for your years of service and commitment and wish you 
well on your retirement, and as I am sitting here listening to 
you answer the questions of my colleagues, I can see your 
passion and commitment to what you do. So thank you so much.
    Clearly, I am from Nevada. I am not going to belabor 
things, we have seen fires. You know what is happening across 
the West. You know what is happening in the State of Nevada. My 
question to you is do you feel comfortable that this budget 
provides the needs that your agency requires to not only battle 
these fires, but talk about and address what you have been 
talking about--which is the post-fire recovery, the prevention 
(reducing the fuels), addressing invasive species, and a number 
of other issues? That is really my concern. And let me add this 
to it because I was really pleased to see in the 2022 budget 
request an additional $400 million to accelerate restoration of 
degraded forest and rangelands. Now that caught my attention 
because most of the fires that we see in Nevada are rangeland 
fires, as you well know, and they are just as devastating.
    So my first question is, does the budget have the necessary 
funding to address what you are talking to us today about?
    Ms. Christiansen. Senator, it's a step in the right 
direction, a significant step in the right direction, but I'll 
be honest with you, we had record wildfires in several states 
and this budget does call for some post-fire recovery funds, 
but it's just a first year. There are many years ahead, and we 
could do more. It helps with modernizing our wildland fire 
workforce. It doesn't get us everywhere that we need to be. I 
am very concerned about our workforce. They are tired and 
fatigued, and there's mental well-being and stress we're 
concerned about. Many of these folks are temporary employees, 
and they try to make a year's living in a six-to-nine-month 
term. So there are still more things to address, but this 
budget is a very good first step forward.
    Senator Cortez Masto. First step, thank you. That is very 
helpful.
    And then please address, because you talked about how there 
are 10,000 firefighters now and the stress that is really on 
staff and firefighters and really the entire staff that are 
undergoing these stresses right now--dealing with these fires 
that we see across the West. Can you speak to the recruitment 
and retention challenges that the agency is facing, not just 
related to the budget, but what else should we be aware of?
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, thank you for that question. You 
know, it's a calling for most of our people. It's a calling to 
do this work, but anybody should be able to have a living wage 
in doing this work. So we do have concerns about a competitive 
wage. With many of our states, it's not competitive. I mean, 
the disparity is double. You can go to a state or local entity 
and make double what you can as a federal wildland firefighter. 
That's not across the board in every state, but in many states, 
and the benefits, the benefits that go with the federal 
packages are not accelerating like other wildland fire jobs, 
especially to meet the intensity and the stress of the job.
    We are prioritizing some of our funds for employee wellness 
and well-being programming, but we are committed to working 
with the Department of the Interior and others to do a 
comprehensive look at our workforce needs.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Please share that, because it's the 
same thing I am hearing in my state from our fire chiefs.
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
    Senator Cortez Masto. It is a challenge, and this is 
something we have to address, and that is one of the reasons 
why I was interested in seeing your support and the funding, 
$27 million, for a Civilian Climate Corps.
    Ms. Christiansen. Absolutely.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Yes, does that address some of the 
concerns with respect to, maybe not on the ground, with 
firefighting, but some of the other areas of prevention, 
restoration, other things that can be done around these issues.
    Ms. Christiansen. The Civilian Conservation Corps or 
Climate Conservation Corps would absolutely add additional 
capacity to get some important work done on the ground and to 
invite underrepresented people into this space of conservation. 
And we're really dedicated. We have a good foothold. We have a 
strong legacy in history, in the Forest Service, with 21st 
century Conservation Corps and of course, our Job Corps program 
in which we run 24 Job Corps Centers that go back to the 
Civilian Conservation Corps. So it's a very important tool to 
increase our capacity.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I know my time is up. One 
final thing, and I will submit this for the record for the Lake 
Tahoe Restoration Act. We need full funding. We need support 
there. I am going to submit some questions to you. We would 
love to work with you, get some answers from you and support 
for full funding----
    Ms. Christiansen. Great.
    Senator Cortez Masto [continuing]. For the Lake Tahoe 
Restoration.
    Ms. Christiansen. I look forward to that, Senator.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Hoeven.
    Senator Hoeven. That was quick. Just in time.
    The Chairman. Glad you made it.
    Senator Hoeven. Yes.
    Chief Christiansen, thank you for being here--national 
grasslands, but you know, seeing the situation, given that we--
--
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, I really appreciate the 
invitation. I was able to see so much when I was there, what, 
20 months ago. You hosted me there and it gave me a lot of 
insights and I asked a lot of--I've asked better questions of 
our staff and probed harder because I saw those issues. I think 
you're aware that I will be retiring in August. So I've looked 
to our Deputy Chief of the National Forest System lands who is 
directly responsible for all of the grassland programs. He is 
delighted to come out in August, if we can make that work and 
maybe bring a couple of his other directors. So they're the 
ones that do all the churning and we can really get them on the 
ground.
    Thank you.
    Senator Hoeven. Okay, thank you. Also, we have, on the 
Great American Outdoors Act, we included, obviously, funding 
for Restore Our Parks. That included federal funding as well 
for things like the grasslands. We have set up a steering 
committee with the grazing asociations. We want the Forest 
Service working closely with that steering committee which 
includes the grazing associations, the Governor's Office, the 
Ag Commissioners Office and my folks, to coordinate the 
maintenance funding that we will get on an annual basis now for 
the grazing associations and so I ask for your commitment to 
work with that steering committee. I think they can do a much 
better job with that kind of coordination to allocate those 
maintenance funds.
    Ms. Christiansen. Absolutely. That was my leadership intent 
to all of our units that they work locally and there's the 
model that is being created there on the grasslands. I know 
they've had their first meeting, which is exactly what I'm 
praising and expecting all of our units to do.
    Senator Hoeven. Would you consider expanding eligible road 
improvement projects to include segments of Forest Service 
roads under easement to a county along with roads that are 
managed jointly by Forest Service and localities under road 
maintenance agreements, again, part of the cooperative effort 
because they put in money too and I think we could, you could, 
leverage each other's funds. Is that something that you would 
be willing to consider?
    Ms. Christiansen. We will absolutely look at it. The 
authority is the Great American Outdoors Act Legacy Restoration 
Funds. If it allows, we'll certainly take a look at it.
    Senator Hoeven. Good, good. Yes, I think it would be 
helpful both to the Forest Service and to the counties and 
townships out there as well as the grazing associations.
    Also, would you consider starting over on Chapter 20 in 
regard to the USFS Rangeland directives? That is a particular, 
that chapter regarding our grazers, they want more input. They 
feel it needs more work and would ask, actually, that you start 
over with it and get fuller input from them.
    Ms. Christiansen. Well, Senator, as you and I discussed a 
couple weeks ago, the input from all communities, and we really 
appreciate what the grazing association's input was. We 
extended the review period by an initial 60 days so they could 
provide those great comments. We are still analyzing their 
comments. There was only over 2,500 comments, and it's going to 
help shape and inform any final directive. So we'll have a look 
at it, at the comments and if we think we need to go back out 
and have conversations, we certainly will.
    Senator Hoeven. Well, I would, again, ask that you engage 
our grazers in regard to--I hope that 60-day timeline runs past 
when we will have a visit then from the Deputy Chief. I think 
that would----
    Ms. Christiansen. Well, no, the comment period did close. 
It was open for 60 days and then----
    Senator Hoeven. Then we got it extended.
    Ms. Christiansen [continuing]. We extended for an 
additional 60 days, yes.
    Senator Hoeven. Right.
    Ms. Christiansen. We've gotten really detailed comments 
from the grazing associations.
    Senator Hoeven. Yes, I guess what I am getting at is I hope 
that extension gets us through the time when we can get 
somebody out on the ground----
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, I think it will.
    Senator Hoeven [continuing]. To talk to the grazers. Okay, 
thank you.
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, you bet.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator King.
    Senator King. Chief, it is great to have a chance to meet 
with you. I was just looking at some data and in 1988 the board 
feet sales from public lands were about 13 billion board feet. 
Today, I think, as you testified, it's 3.2. What in the hell is 
happening?
    Ms. Christiansen. Senator, we have taken an ecosystem 
approach to our lands. We've calculated the sustainable sale 
qualities, and we are not producing as much timber as we did in 
the 1980's and we're not----
    Senator King. I'll say, by a factor of about five.
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, sir. And there is more growth in our 
forests than the timber we are offering so we do need to offer 
more timber.
    Senator King. And I just noticed that coincidentally from 
1991 to 2020, the number of acres burned has gone up by a 
factor of five.
    Is there a connection?
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, sir, there is.
    Senator King. What are the bottlenecks? And by the way, I 
have been told that hundreds of sawmills have closed in the 
last 40 years in the West because of a lack of timber, going 
from 13 billion board feet to 3.2, clearly, has dried up the 
supply. And yet, we are seeing record wood prices. What is 
causing this dramatic decline in harvest? Is there any 
allegation that we were overharvesting in 1988, 40 years ago, 
almost 40, 35 years ago?
    Ms. Christiansen. Senator, it's a little more complex than 
that. We've also been excluding fire. We've been suppressing 
fire for the last 110 years.
    Senator King. I am not suggesting it's a one-to-one 
relationship.
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
    Senator King. But you testified that there is a 
relationship, and my question is, ``why are we cutting so much 
less wood?'' This is a renewable resource. The trees grow back.
    Ms. Christiansen. Because there's too much small wood that 
doesn't have a market. It doesn't have a market, and we need to 
create those markets.
    Senator King. But in my state, as you know, Maine is the 
most forested state in America. It's also almost virtually all 
private. The private landowners cut in those forests, pre-
commercial thinning it's called.
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
    Senator King. Which is both better for fire suppression and 
also ultimately better for commercial timber development, isn't 
that correct?
    Ms. Christiansen. That is correct. Absolutely.
    Senator King. So if there were more commercial, market-
based policies being applied in our forests, we'd have a 
healthier forest, would we not?
    Ms. Christiansen. Well, yes, yes. The pre-commercial 
thinning that you referred to on private lands in Maine is very 
important to create that bigger, marketable forest product and 
in the millions----
    Senator King. And to minimizing fire danger.
    Ms. Christiansen. And to minimizing fire danger, but in the 
terrain and the slopes that we have in the 193 million acres of 
National Forest System lands, it's not a one for one where we 
can put contractors out and do pre-commercial thinning. We need 
to do prescribed fire. We need to do other hazardous fuels 
treatments to create the right kinds of forests that are 
merchantable and healthy and resilient.
    Senator King. Well, here is another figure that bothers 
me--30 percent of the forest land in America is federal. 70 
percent of acreage burned last year was on federal land. 
There's something wrong here.
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, yes, I absolutely agree. We need to 
do more work, Senator. That's the paradigm shift that I'm 
referring to. We need to treat two to four times more acres 
than we do now.
    Senator King. But when you say treat, I hear that word and 
I think, you know, chemicals or something. You are really, are 
you not, talking about more harvesting?
    Ms. Christiansen. I'm talking about more harvesting. I'm 
talking about more prescribed fire. I'm talking about more 
mechanical, pre-commercial thinning or hazardous fuels 
reduction. I'm talking about targeted grazing. It's all of 
those tools: all are treatments.
    Senator King. You are the world's expert on this and for 
the record, I would like if you could give us a page or two on 
why the dramatic decline of a couple hundred percent since the 
late 80's. Are there statutory things, for example, that have 
contributed to that?
    Ms. Christiansen. Sure.
    Senator King. Is it litigation? Is it regulatory? What are 
the barriers to getting to a place where we would have both a 
more robust, stronger wood supply with stronger employment in 
the West and also less fire? So could you get back to us?
    Ms. Christiansen. We'd be happy to do that, Senator, yes.
    Senator King. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Christiansen. You're welcome.
    Senator King. I appreciate your extraordinary service and 
your straightforward testimony here today.
    Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
    Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Risch.
    Senator Risch. Thank you.
    Ms. Christiansen, I think Senator King has probably 
expressed the frustration everyone has regarding production of 
fiber on the national forests. When I graduated from and, by 
the way, Dale Bosworth, one of your predecessors was in my 
class when we graduated in 1965, great guy, good friend. When 
we graduated from college, there were over 40 mills in Southern 
Idaho cutting timber, cutting logs. Today they are down to one. 
And it has just been heartbreaking to see them close one after 
the other. The initial cause was, there was a lot of litigation 
that really shut down supply and then, of course, it went from 
there to other things, the fire, notoriously, has really caused 
us a problem. But I think Senator King makes a good point. We 
stand by and we watch this and everybody is complaining about 
the price of lumber and yet, we have lots and lots and lots of 
lumber, but it is still standing in the forests.
    And congratulations on a career, I guess you are going to 
call it good in August. Is that right?
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
    Senator Risch. Well, that is good.
    Look, I want to talk to you about a very parochial issue in 
Idaho. Are you familiar with the post office sale in the 
Clearwater National Forest?
    Ms. Christiansen. I am not familiar with that particular 
sale.
    Senator Risch. Well, let me refresh your memory. You will 
probably know it when you hear about it. The post office sale 
was the sale that was put up some decades ago and the tree 
spikers went in and put about 500 pounds of spikes into the 
trees in the sale, and I am assuming you are very familiar with 
the practice of tree spiking and what that does and the fatal 
dangers that it causes for people that work in the mill. You 
are familiar with that situation?
    Ms. Christiansen. I'm aware, yes, sir.
    Senator Risch. Yes. We have a woman who has been nominated 
to head the Bureau of Land Management by the name of Tracy 
Stone-Manning. She was involved and conspired and participated 
with these tree spikers in that sale back in the post office 
sale. The post office sale has trees still standing that have 
tree spikes in them. Do you have any kind of program, as far as 
trying to root out which of those trees? They tell me that the 
spikes, some of them are 150 feet off of the ground. Do you 
have any kind of program that addresses those trees that are 
still standing that will be there for a long time, perhaps 
generations?
    Ms. Christiansen. Senator, I'll have to get back to you on 
that, not that I'm specifically personally aware of.
    Senator Risch. Okay. Well, I ask that because this is a 
serious issue and this woman who has been nominated, I am very 
much opposed to, in fact, one of my good democrat friends 
conceded, yes, she made a mistake some decades back. Tree 
spiking is not a mistake. A mistake is when you reach in your 
sock drawer in the morning and you take two different kinds of 
socks. When you set out to knowingly, willfully, intentionally 
with malice of forethought, black and abandoned, malignant 
heart, to take someone else's life, that's not a mistake. And I 
cannot imagine that, why the Administration is looking at this 
person for this.
    I understand that everybody wants to include everyone in 
the Administration, but I would think that the constituency of 
tree spikers is not one that you want to pander to. I am 
assuming you would not hire someone that has a history of tree 
spiking in your organization?
    Ms. Christiansen. Senator, that is not something that we 
would particularly look at.
    Senator Risch. Maybe you want to clarify that, when you say 
look at, yes, certainly you would look at whether or not they 
had been involved in tree spiking.
    Ms. Christiansen. Well----
    Senator Risch. But I am gathering you are saying it is not 
somebody you want in your organization.
    Ms. Christiansen. We do not question for that kind of 
activity.
    Senator Risch. Really?
    Ms. Christiansen. In reference checks, what kind of 
employee they could be at the time of service that we're hiring 
them for.
    Senator Risch. Okay, so you do not, you would not look at 
the background of somebody that had been involved in this kind 
of conduct before? If that came to your attention, that would 
not affect their hiring qualifications?
    Ms. Christiansen. Senator, I can get back to you.
    Senator Risch. Yes, because that would be amazing to me, to 
be honest with you. I mean, this is like what ISIS and Al-Qaeda 
do when they put IEDs alongside the road. I mean, this 
indicates a depravity somewhere. Someone's heart and soul, it 
is not a mistake that someone, you can just say, I'm sorry. 
Okay, we are going to move on. I would be shocked to hear that 
you would not consider this and particularly someone in a 
management position.
    Senator Risch. But in any event, I would appreciate it if 
you would get back to me of what it is you are doing about 
this. I think a lot of people do not fully understand what 
happens when you spike a tree, when the tree goes through the 
mill you have innocent people standing there who have nothing 
to do with anything other than they are hard-working people 
trying to support their family and their spouse or children. 
And when a saw hits one of these, can you--you have seen 
instances of this in a mill, have you not?
    Ms. Christiansen. I have personally not seen one.
    Senator Risch. You have read about it described----
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, sir.
    Senator Risch. Okay. Can you tell the Committee what 
happens when a saw hits a spike in the log when it is going 
through the, when the carriage is moving toward the saw or----
    Ms. Christiansen. I can't, in particular. It could harm a 
person if it hits a person.
    Senator Risch. Well, in fact, it has happened, has it not? 
The saw explodes when it hits a spike in the log, is that 
correct?
    Ms. Christiansen. I am not----
    Senator Risch. You are not familiar with that?
    Ms. Christiansen [continuing]. I'm not the expert on what 
happens----
    Senator Risch. Surely, you have heard about what happens 
when a saw----
    Ms. Christiansen. I have heard about it, yes, Senator.
    Senator Risch [continuing]. And it sends shrapnel that 
kills people throughout, with people that are in the immediate 
area, is that a fair description that you have heard?
    Ms. Christiansen. I cannot recall where somebody has been 
killed, but that's a long time ago that I read about those 
instances. So I may not recall every detail.
    Senator Risch. Alright, thanks. I would appreciate it if 
you would get back to me on what is going to happen at the post 
office sale.
    Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you. I have one other question. We will 
go back to where Senator King was because it is so important, 
and I think I mentioned it, though Senator King went into more 
detail. I would like to go into a little bit more detail as 
well. On page 140 of your budget, there is a number for acres 
treated that is different than the 2.65 million acres or 3.7 
million acres you mentioned. It is acres that have effectively 
mitigated wildlife risk.
    Ms. Christiansen. Wildfire risk?
    The Chairman. I'm sorry, wildfire risk. It says that your 
target for last year was 1.1 million acres and this year it is 
1.4. It also looks like you have not met your target in several 
years. How are the numbers different from the ``2.65 million 
acres treated'' target that you are proposing?
    Ms. Christiansen. Senator, I'm proposing an additional 2.65 
million acres in addition to our targets that you see in that 
budget. I, not having the numbers in front of me that you read 
off, I can't.
    The Chairman. We will share that with you----
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, we'd be glad to explain that.
    The Chairman. Let me throw this at you and see what you 
think--I am also told, and I think Senator King was alluding to 
this, there is an awful lot of acres that you all are treating 
that have not been identified as high-risk because you're just 
trying to, I guess, make sure it does not become high risk.
    Ms. Christiansen. Exactly.
    The Chairman. But we are not treating the eminent danger of 
those high-risk areas because they are on a rotation. That 
makes sense. That is what I understand.
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, no, it makes sense and that's a part 
of this paradigm shift. It's not just treating more acres in 
any acres. Those that are less high-risk.
    The Chairman. You know where the risk truly is, 
inherently----
    Ms. Christiansen. We have the modeling and the science. We 
have incredible science capacity. We call it scenario 
investment planning by high-risk.
    The Chairman. What's preventing us from doing it? Is there 
some impediment? It is either the environmental communities or 
just completely out----
    Ms. Christiansen. It's funding, sir.
    The Chairman. It's funding?
    Ms. Christiansen. It's funding.
    The Chairman. But I am saying if we see that you were not 
treating in the right places, you know, once you identify the 
right places with these models, and still yet we did not 
approach that ``acres effectively mitigated'' goal in the past 
year or the year before.
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes, but the outputs we're held 
accountable for are just acres treated and we're working with 
the Office of Management and Budget to have an outcome-based 
performance measure because some of the acres that we need to 
treat in the high-risk firesheds are around communities, and 
they might be really expensive.
    The Chairman. Okay.
    Ms. Christiansen. And that means less acres treated, and we 
need to still show an outcome when targeting our work. We have 
to be held accountable for something, but it needs to be an 
outcome-based metric, not just our units treating as many acres 
as they can.
    The Chairman. I got you.
    Ms. Christiansen. Because that's the only performance 
measure we're holding them accountable to right now.
    The Chairman. I think you know this is of great interest to 
us and when is your retirement?
    Ms. Christiansen. My retirement is at the end of August.
    The Chairman. Okay. Now we have a couple months here.
    Senator King. Mr. Chairman, I move a unanimous consent 
agreement that she is not being allowed to retire.
    The Chairman. I would second that.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator King. Sorry about that.
    The Chairman. Ms. Christiansen, you know, we really, I 
really, appreciate your work and testimony. I know that Senator 
King, as I am sure everyone here, appreciates your direct 
honesty on what we have in terms of some challenges.
    Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
    The Chairman. If our Committee could engage with you 
immediately before you leave that would give us some direction 
of changes we might want to make.
    Senator King, I think you could be of immense help to us to 
make sure that we target our funding and work.
    Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
    The Chairman. Okay.
    Ms. Christiansen. And Secretary Vilsack is going to name a 
new Chief within the next couple weeks.
    The Chairman. Great.
    Ms. Christiansen. And I'll stick around to transition with 
the new Chief so maybe we'll even bring both of us up.
    The Chairman. Well, we have a Subcommittee, Senator 
Hickenlooper is on that Subcommittee, chaired by Senator Cortez 
Masto. We will get right with them. Bryan from our staff and 
Senator Hickenlooper, and Senator King's staff also. We will 
work to make sure that we can get a direct target on what we 
need to do immediately.
    Ms. Christiansen. Okay.
    The Chairman. Okay.
    Ms. Christiansen. Alright.
    The Chairman. Senator King, do you have any other 
questions?
    Ms. Christiansen. And Senator Manchin, could I just for the 
record state in my exchange with Senator Risch that background 
checks on performance is something we do in our hiring 
processes. We do background checks.
    The Chairman. Yes, Senator Hickenlooper is walking here 
right now. He wanted to ask you a question. So we are holding.
    Ms. Christiansen. Oh, sure.
    The Chairman. Is that him now? There he is. Look. Look at 
that. We held it for you, sir.
    Just for you.
    Senator Hickenlooper, you're on, if you're ready.
    Senator Hickenlooper. I'm a little out of breath.
    The Chairman. Take a breath.
    Senator Hickenlooper. But I am grateful to get a chance to 
talk to you. I followed a little bit of it as I was jumping in 
and out of other meetings. Thank you so much for holding on.
    Ms. Christiansen, prior to the 2000's, Colorado had never 
had a single 100,000-acre fire in our recorded history. In 
2020, in one year, we had a 175,000-acre fire. We had a 
190,000-acre fire, and we have our first ever 200,000-acre 
fire. The devastation not just to the national forest, but to 
private lands and structures is astonishing and heartbreaking. 
I know that the problems caused by these fires don't stop once 
the flames are out, as you guys have already been discussing, 
and as we see with a melting snow pack and summer rains coming, 
many of our problems are just beginning.
    How can we work better with the U.S. Forest Service to 
prevent massive damage to our watersheds and to our water 
infrastructure?
    Ms. Christiansen. Well, Senator Hickenlooper, you know, I 
just have to say, I hear you. 41 years ago, I started as a 
wildland firefighter and a 20,000-acre fire was pretty darn 
big, and you know, in the 41 years since, it's just 
accelerated. And we have a billion burnable acres in this 
nation, and as you well know, in many, many of these 
landscapes, fire is a necessary part of the landscape, but fire 
is needed in the right balance for the fuel conditions. And we 
have large, large, large areas of fuel continuity where we have 
undergrowth, where fire hasn't burned through it and taken the 
undergrowth, and that has suppressed the growth of the larger 
trees.
    And we have to treat, and I know there's some clarity 
needed when I say ``treat'', and I'll get to that. We need a 
paradigm shift. We have to treat two to four times more acres 
than we treat now at the Forest Service. We treat about three 
million acres a year. We need to treat 2.65 million additional 
acres for the next 10 years to see a marked change in the high-
risk fire sheds. And when I say treat, that is everything from 
prescribed fire to naturally managed fire, where appropriate. 
It means hazardous fuels, mechanical reductions, pre-commercial 
thinning and timber harvest and grazing--targeted grazing where 
we can.
    That's what we needed to do in the long game so we don't 
have these after-effects of post-fire that you're referring to. 
In the short term, when we do have these catastrophic fires, 
not fires that are in balance, we need to do significantly more 
investment across boundaries because fire knows no boundaries, 
and we're working hard with our partners at the Natural 
Resource Conservation Service so that we can stitch together 
our authorities, you know, what we can do on the national 
forest, what they can do to assist point sources of protection 
of watersheds and other public values on the private lands.
    And there's some good work going on in Colorado, but in the 
end, we need more funding as well, sir.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Sure, and I would hope--also one of 
the things that struck me in the years we fought fires while I 
was Governor of Colorado, that we never seemed to have the data 
that one wants, in other words, of all the ways we fight fires, 
so many of them are still very similar to what, when you first 
came on board.
    Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
    Senator Hickenlooper. And the real questions about where is 
money being wasted. It seems like if it stays this warm and 
with the winds, you still have a steady breeze, no matter what 
we do, the fire just marches forward. And I think we do have to 
do a much better job and this takes funding, I recognize, of 
collecting that data.
    I also want to look at some innovation ideas, innovative 
ideas like funding something like the Civilian Conservation 
Corps or Civilian Climate Corps, I guess is what they've been 
calling it to enlist young people in these efforts. I would 
love to hear your vision on that as well, and I realize I am 
almost out of time.
    Ms. Christiansen. Well, we're very excited about building 
on a long legacy that the Forest Service has starting with the 
original Civilian Conservation Corps, which are now Job Corps 
Centers (which we run 24 of those) and to bring conservation 
jobs to our youth, especially youth that are at-risk. This is 
one of the best benefits one could get out of a career and then 
additionally, we have over 11,000 service corps members through 
our 21st Century Conservation Corps efforts within a series of 
the core networks. So to add to that capacity, to focus on 
climate-smart practices and nature-based solutions around 
climate, we could really up our game in helping to contribute.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Right.
    Ms. Christiansen. And invite youth of all backgrounds into 
conservation.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, I appreciate that. I yield 
back.
    Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator King.
    Senator King. Well, I am going to take a minute.
    The Chairman. You take your time.
    Senator King. One of the concerns I know is from the 
environmental point of view about carbon. We're all concerned 
about carbon and climate, as I am, and I have been deeply 
involved in these issues for many years. One of the things I 
have learned in studying the issues of the forest is that a 
growing forest sequesters more carbon than a mature forest. 
Growing trees sequester more carbon and, of course, that 
implies that it's okay to cut trees because they grow back, and 
you can increase the carbon sink value of an acre. But the 
other piece is harvested timber that goes into lumber, the 
carbon remains sequestered, in a house or in a building or in a 
piece of plywood. On the other hand, when these fires occur, 
that carbon is released with a vengeance.
    So I think from a point of view of carbon, if greater 
harvesting, and I am not talking about massive clear cutting, I 
am talking about reasonable commercial harvesting, as we do in 
Maine. That can actually contribute to the sequestration of 
carbon as opposed to what is an undeniable, and I think you 
have testified to it, relationship between a lack of harvesting 
and pre-commercial thinning and fires, which are a massive 
release of carbon in a very dramatic way. Is my analysis 
correct?
    Ms. Christiansen. You're absolutely right, Senator. First 
and foremost is to keep the forests on the land in a healthy 
condition so they don't burn up.
    Senator King. Right.
    Ms. Christiansen. And emit all the carbon, and they can be 
a part of the carbon storage. And sometimes we have to harvest 
the smaller trees in the forest to keep the resilience, the 
underbrush and all of that while we grow the bigger trees in 
the forest and that can be of a commercial product. And then, 
you're absolutely right, the good news. It's identified in the 
life cycle analysis: carbon is stored in harvested wood 
products and thanks to the foresight of many that came before 
us, we have a forest inventory and analysis, FIA. It's the tree 
and carbon census. So it's the tree census and the forest 
census, wall to wall for all lands in this country. And we're 
coveted around the globe for having this kind of inventory 
that's held by the Forest Service, and we can create those 
carbon calculations, and that life cycle analysis of the 
importance of how we still harvest trees, and it is stored in 
these wood products for years to come.
    Senator King. Thank you. I appreciate it. And in fact, I am 
introducing legislation to have a Blue Ribbon Commission to 
examine the inventory process to see if it needs to be changed 
in any way to more accurately reflect information that we need 
going forward.
    Ms. Christiansen. Good.
    Senator King. But again, I deeply appreciate the work that 
you have done and look forward, hopefully, as Senator Manchin 
said, to an informal meeting.
    Ms. Christiansen. Sure.
    Senator King. Perhaps before your departure.
    Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Christiansen. Appreciate it, thank you.
    The Chairman. First of all, let me just say, thank you 
again, and I would be remiss if we missed this opportunity 
because you might not be appearing before our Committee before 
your retirement. Do you have any closing remarks, anything you 
would like to say? And you have a month or so, we're going to 
be picking your brain pretty heavily, I can tell, to see what 
we can do to make this a better place.
    Ms. Christiansen. Well, thank you for that opportunity, 
Chairman Manchin. You know, I know I am biased. I know our 
nation's forests are one of the most important assets for a 
variety of reasons, social, economic and environmental. They're 
all important, and you know, this Committee's commitment 
through the fire funding fix, the Great American Outdoors Act, 
your deep concern and questioning about the management and the 
use and the benefits that flow from our forests. It takes the 
commitment, the heart and soul of all of us to know how 
important these forests are, but it's also the people. It's the 
people that connect with forests, whether it's our employees, 
whether it's the youth, whether it's the water faucet that's 
turned on in our inner cities, and they don't even know where 
their water comes from. We just know the importance of this 
blessed resource that we have in this nation, and I just thank 
you for keeping that commitment and that connection between 
what I am passionate about, which is connecting people with 
their natural resources; and this Committee has helped a long 
way toward that.
    The Chairman. Well, thank you so much. I think what we need 
to do, Senator King and myself have both seen forests that have 
been managed privately, and we do not have these devastating 
events such as forest fires to ones that we do not manage in 
the forests under our purview, the U.S. Government. So we think 
we can do a better job. We think you do have that knowledge to 
share with us that will help us immensely, and we look forward 
to that in the next two months, extracting everything we can so 
that we can make a better forest for the United States of 
America.
    Ms. Christiansen. Thank you very much.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    With that, members will have until the close of business 
tomorrow to submit additional questions for the record.
    The Chairman. We are adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:35 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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