[Senate Hearing 117-142]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-142
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE
U.S. FOREST SERVICE FOR FISCAL YEAR 2022
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JUNE 17, 2021
__________
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
44-961 WASHINGTON : 2022
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COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
Renae Black, Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
Bryan Petit, Senior Professional Staff Member
Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
James Willson, Republican Counsel
Darla Ripchensky, Chief Clerk
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West
Virginia....................................................... 1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
Wyoming........................................................ 2
WITNESS
Christiansen, Victoria, Chief, U.S. Forest Service............... 3
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Barrasso, Hon. John:
Opening Statement............................................ 2
Washington Times article entitled ``Biden's public-lands pick
runs into GOP buzz saw over links to timber sabotage'' by
Valerie Richardson, dated 6/16/2021........................ 15
Wall Street Journal article entitled ``A Biden Nominee's
Radical Past'' by James Freeman, dated 6/15/2021........... 20
Daily Caller article entitled ``Biden Bureau of Land
Management Nominee Tracy Stone-Manning Was Involved In
`Eco-Terrorism' Case, Resulted In College Roommate's
Conviction, Prison Sentence, Court Records Show'' by Andrew
W. Kerr, dated 6/11/2021................................... 23
AP News article entitled ``Biden nominee linked to 1989
sabotage draws Republican ire'' by Matthew Brown, dated 6/
11/2021.................................................... 29
Fox News article entitled ``Land Management nominee
`collaborated with eco-terrorists,' traded testimony for
immunity'' by Houston Keene, dated 6/16/21................. 33
Christiansen, Victoria:
Opening Statement............................................ 3
Written Testimony............................................ 5
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 59
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
Outdoor Alliance:
Statement for the Record..................................... 78
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE FOR FISCAL
YEAR 2022
----------
THURSDAY, JUNE 17, 2021
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m. in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin
III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA
The Chairman. The meeting will come to order. This morning
we will be discussing the Fiscal Year 2022 budget for the U.S.
Forest Service. But before we get underway, I would like to
take a moment to recognize Chief Vicki Christiansen. I
appreciate you being here this morning, especially given your
announcement last week that you will be retiring and I would
like to take this opportunity on behalf of the entire Committee
here to say thank you. Thank you for a job well done and such
dedicated service to the people of America. We appreciate it.
We just need more ``Vicki Christi-
ansen's.'' I know that serving as the agency's Chief has been
not an easy task, so I want to thank you for your leadership.
Over the last few years, you have helped me address a range of
issues from ensuring wounded warriors had the access they
needed for hunting on the George Washington and Jefferson
National Forests to facilitating the reopening of the
Timberline Mountain Resort in the Monongahela National Forest.
I appreciate that very much. So I wish you the best in
retirement, and we will give it one last shot here, Chief--you
can leave a lasting impression, okay?
I will now turn to the purpose of today's hearing, the
President's proposal for the Fiscal Year 2022 Forest Service
budget. Rural communities across the country depend on our
national forests. They provide timber resources and
opportunities for recreation and thereby support jobs in local
communities. I understand the President's budget requests a $1
billion increase for Forest Service programs above what
Congress appropriated last year. I look forward to learning why
these increases are needed and for what, specifically, this
money would be used. I am glad to see the President's
commitment to investing in solutions to address climate change
reflected in this year's budget request. Our Committee recently
held a hearing with top scientists and practitioners on the
significant roles that forests and active forest management can
play in sequestering carbon emissions and the science is clear.
Proactive management, including activities such as
reforestation, thinning and prescribed fire, can both prevent
carbon emissions and significantly increase carbon absorption.
Earlier this week, Ranking Member Barrasso and I sent a
letter to President Biden requesting that he provide additional
direction to the federal land management agencies, including
the Forest Service, for two things: to ensure management
decisions concerning our forests are being made consistent with
the current science, and to tell us what more can be done to
enable our forests to better sequester and store carbon. You
can expect to see more coming out of our Committee in the weeks
ahead on this. A different example of investing in climate
solutions that was included in your budget request is the $100
million proposal for plugging orphan oil and gas wells and
remediating abandoned mine lands. There are thousands of
leaking orphan wells on the national forests, particularly in
the East. In West Virginia, there are currently over 170,000
acres of unreclaimed, abandoned mine lands. I understand there
are over 40,000 abandoned mine land sites on the national
forests across the country, and I appreciate your agency
wanting to make investments to restore these sites.
Finally, I would like to remind everyone that the Senate
passed the Great American Outdoors Act one year ago today. In
this one law, we provided full funding, $900 million per year,
for the programs funded by the Land and Water Conservation Fund
and provided $9.5 billion for the Forest Service and the
Department of the Interior to address the backlog of deferred
maintenance. I want to thank my colleagues here, especially
Senators Daines and Heinrich, who worked together to get this
important bill enacted into law.
With that, I'll turn to my dear friend, Ranking Member
Barrasso for his opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for
holding today's hearing on the Forest Service budget request
for Fiscal Year 2022. I will tell you, Chief Christiansen, I
just want to add my accolades to those from Senator Manchin. I
want to thank you for many years of service, remarkable
service, and I want to congratulate you on a very long and
distinguished and accomplished career. On behalf of the people
of my home state and, I think, on behalf of the entire U.S.
Senate, let us thank you--we appreciate it. All of us on the
Committee wish you the very best, and we hope you are going to
enjoy your upcoming retirement.
Last month, this Committee held a very informative hearing
with top forestry experts to discuss the vital role that forest
management must play in improving our nation's forests and
preventing devastating wildfires. The message from the hearing
was clear. Simply being reactive, waiting for disaster to
strike, is not a successful strategy. We need proactive forest
management, for America's forests and economies, and for our
communities. Chief Christiansen, I know you agree with all of
this. You are shaking your head, yes. In April, you testified
in an Appropriations hearing that the Forest Service must
increase active forest management efforts and that a paradigm
shift, as you said, is needed. Now I am interested to hear how
elements of this new budget request might help bring about this
badly needed turnaround. At the same time, I am deeply troubled
with the Biden Administration's massive requested increase for
federal spending. With respect to the proposed Forest Service
budget, I would like to know why the requested $1 billion
increase is necessary and whether the proposed spending is
carefully targeted for maximum efficiency.
I support robust funding for the agency's wildfire
preparedness, suppression, and mitigation efforts. I do not
believe, though, we can simply spend our way out of problems
that have plagued our forests for decades. So I am interested
in creative solutions to promote healthier forests,
collaborating with people on the ground, and this includes, of
course, our ranchers, our state foresters, and our industry
partners. I would also like to hear whether legal challenges
and red tape are some of the barriers that you face in making
the Forest Service's dollars go as far as they could and
should.
Many of us here today also want to know how this budget is
going to help the Forest Service prepare for fire season. Last
summer was a truly devastating wildfire season across America.
In Wyoming, the Mullen fire was one of the largest fires on
record in our state. Several states, including states
represented on this very Committee, experienced some of their
largest wildfires ever in 2020. According to the Secretary of
Agriculture, the signals and indications are that we are headed
to yet another very dangerous fire year. Ensuring that our
firefighters have the resources they need to effectively and
safely do their jobs is of paramount importance. Recently, all
of Wyoming was extremely saddened about the loss of a Wyoming
Forest Service smoke jumper, Tim Hart. He lived with his family
in Cody, Wyoming. We are indebted to brave firefighters like
Tim who put their lives on the line every day. They protect
people's lives and livelihoods.
So again, Chief Christiansen, thanks so much for being
here, for your long career of successfully serving the American
people.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to the testimony.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
Now, let me welcome our witness today, Ms. Vicki
Christiansen, for her opening statement.
STATEMENT OF VICTORIA CHRISTIANSEN,
CHIEF, U.S. FOREST SERVICE
Ms. Christiansen. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member
Barrasso, members of the Committee, thank you so much for the
invitation to be here. Today, I'll highlight the work we're
doing to serve the American people and share how it lines up
with the Administration's highest priorities. I'll share our
resolve to employ science to tackle climate change, fight
wildfires, and sustain productive resilient forests. We are
also doing our part to spur job growth and rebuild
infrastructure. Last, I will talk on our work to advance racial
equity and create an inclusive workplace.
As I begin, please allow me to reassure you, the Forest
Service is always willing to come before this Committee and
account for our work. It is our privilege to work closely with
you to steward our nation's forests and extend service to the
American people. And as I pass the baton to the next Chief, I
assure you our strong commitment to working with each one of
you will not change.
I'm proud to say that last year, despite the pandemic as
well as historical natural disasters, the Forest Service rose
to the challenge. We hosted 200 percent more forest visitors as
they sought respite from the surge of the pandemic, and we
delivered on our mission. The long-term challenge we must
confront is the crisis facing America's forests and grasslands.
This crisis results from a changing climate. It induces severe
wildfires, droughts, insects, disease, and invasive species.
The severity and the frequency of wildfires is increasing
significantly, impacting our nation's forests at an
unprecedented rate and destroying homes and businesses. The
2020 fire year became a call to action. We saw the most acres
burned on Forest Service lands since the big burn of 1910. We
must have a paradigm shift.
Under the President's jobs plan, President Biden is calling
on Congress to significantly invest in the protection from
extreme wildfire. After confronting record wildfires last year,
we do expect another long and arduous fire year in 2021. In
recent days we've seen more fire outbreaks, and we deployed
more resources. We are prepared, but remain deeply concerned
about the welfare and the pay of our thousands of firefighters.
We're grateful for your help in finding solutions that address
the safety of our firefighters as well as pay equity, fatigue
and their mental well-being. There is so much at stake.
As Senator Barrasso said, last weekend I was in Cody,
Wyoming attending the memorial service of Tim Hart, our smoke
jumper who died from injuries sustained while fighting a fire
in New Mexico. I know we will all keep Tim's family,
colleagues, and loved ones in our thoughts and prayers.
Our infrastructure needs are pressing, as are the economic
needs of Americans. When we improve the forest infrastructure
by upgrading roads, trails, and recreation sites, it boosts
economies, and thanks to the Great American Outdoors Act, we
expect to create an additional 4,400 jobs and contribute
roughly $420 million to the GDP annually. I understand
expectations that come with the fire funding fix which went
into effect in Fiscal Year 2020. Please know the Forest Service
remains a good investment. We understand Congressional
expectations for increasing accountability and oversight of our
fire spending. This year we moved to a new budget structure. It
will help us increase transparency and accountability of our
spending.
National forests and grasslands belong to every American.
Every citizen should feel a personal invitation and a
connection to their lands. Each American also deserves a
motivated workforce that reflects our values, offers exemplary
service and mirrors our population. We are committed to both,
starting in our own house. The Forest Service continues its
work to end harassment and create a work environment where
every employee feels safe, valued, and respected.
It's been a great honor to work with you. I look forward to
your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Christiansen follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Chief. I will lead off with our
questions.
My first is that I notice in your budget proposal that the
funding for buildings, roads and facilities remains flat
compared to last year. However, I also noticed that you no
longer distinguish in your budget proposal between how much of
this funding will be used for maintaining your existing
infrastructure and how much will be used for building new
buildings, roads and facilities--so taking care of deferred but
also increasing new. The Great American Outdoors Act provides
you an additional $285 million annually over five years to
address your deferred maintenance backlog which has been
estimated at $5.2 billion. I want to make sure that you will
use the money requested in the budget to maintain what you
currently have or at least the extent that the remaining $4
billion backlog does not continue to grow.
How much of your proposed funding for buildings, roads and
facilities will go toward maintenance versus new construction?
Ms. Christiansen. Let me break that apart just a little
bit, Senator, and I really appreciate the question. The Great
American Outdoors Act--the $285 million annually provided is a
great start. And we have an updated number regarding deferred
maintenance: we now have a $5.9 billion backlog--$3.85 billion
is for transportation and just over $2 billion is for our non-
transportation resources--our admin facilities, our recreation
and communication sites, and all the rest. And a significant
criteria for the Great American Outdoors Act deferred
maintenance projects is that the project must indicate how much
deferred maintenance the project is going to alleviate. So
there's an example in your state, the Sherwood Campground
Rehabilitation, which is a significant project funded out of
the Great American Outdoors Act where we're investing $750,000
from the Legacy Restoration Fund, but it will take care of $1.1
million of deferred maintenance. In regards to our regular
budget, it is flat, and it's not enough to get after our
backlog, but we'd be happy to work with the Committee on how we
can do a better job at that, Senator.
The Chairman. Thank you.
You also mentioned in your budget justification that the
Forest Service is the first federal law enforcement agency to
require all of its law enforcement officers to wear body
cameras. So that everyone knows what we are talking about, the
Forest Service has implemented a nationwide body-worn camera
and video evidence storage system. Why did you decide to do
this, and what was the cost?
Ms. Christiansen. It's for accountability and transparency,
Senator.
The Chairman. How have the law enforcement officers
received this? Are they okay? Are they giving you any pushback?
Ms. Christiansen. No, I mean, yes, change is always
something that we have to work through together, but overall,
they are very receptive. We've been working on it for the last
couple of years. They knew it was coming. We did some testing
in particular units. We had employee workgroups to answer their
questions. So we really worked on the change management model
and----
The Chairman. It is working.
Ms. Christiansen [continuing]. We're proud of our efforts.
The Chairman. Great. Let me ask this question. This is off
the cuff. You know, a lot of the forest fires have been
horrible, and right now, the season has started off
horrifically from what I am seeing out West right now. Everyone
is getting hit because of the heat wave. I also have concerns
about how much timber that we just let go to waste after it is
killed in these wildfires. Is there any desire by your
Department to work and accelerate extracting some of that
timber after it burns? It will not regrow, but we can still use
it for the market.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, absolutely. We work with
our multiple partners. I'll give you an example----
The Chairman. I guess, explaining why it's taking so long--
why we had reports here that so much is wasted because by the
time they get permits to go in it's too late.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, well we have to prioritize where
we're going to go--with the danger trees first that will have
life and safety implications to our employees and the public.
So we have some expedited environmental clearance processes. We
still go through the environmental clearance to make sure we're
making science-based decisions, and we are----
The Chairman. That is to cut down a burnt tree that is
dead?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. What are they evaluating? It is dead. It is
going to fall over and rot, or we can use it.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, it can provide benefits in the
ecosystem as well as soil stabilization.
The Chairman. If you could, give me some reports on what
you do? I will say this, with all due respect. It just seems
like it is ridiculous that we do not salvage more and are able
to use that timber for a productive use that would be helping
the economy. It helps, basically, the cost of timber for
building, but also, it's a resource we are wasting.
Ms. Christiansen. We do salvage restoration, Senator, but
not every----
The Chairman. Every forest fire?
Ms. Christiansen [continuing]. Not on every tree that dies,
depending on where it is and very steep terrain, et cetera.
The Chairman. Okay. Thank you.
Ms. Christiansen. You're welcome.
The Chairman. Senator Barrasso.
Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.
As I mentioned earlier, we may be headed toward another
devastating wildfire season this year, and we are already
seeing dangerous wildfires in and around Wyoming. The Robertson
Draw fire is continuing to spread in the Bear Tooth Mountains
just north of the Wyoming border. The fire has already
triggered evacuations and threatens to cause further disruption
and damage. Earlier this week, Chairman Manchin and I sent a
letter to President Biden asking that wildfire mitigation
efforts be increased by orders of magnitude.
Do we need to dramatically increase the amount of acreage
that is treated annually?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, we do.
Senator Barrasso. You said that a paradigm shift is needed.
What would that look like?
Ms. Christiansen. We can't just do the same old thing we've
always done of treating whatever acres we can get to. We have a
crisis. We have a crisis that needs to be addressed
differently. We treat about three million acres each year on
our National Forest System lands, and we need to do two to four
times more than that. We have a scale mismatch. There's a
billion burnable acres in this nation across all land
ownerships, and fire is a natural part and necessary part in
many ecosystems. But we have too much fuel on the lands today,
continuous fuel on the landscape that is causing these
catastrophic, severe wildfires.
So with two to four times more treatment over the next 10
years, we can significantly change the trajectory back into a
resilient balance of the most critical fire sheds, particularly
in the West.
Senator Barrasso. On another topic, according to the data
recently provided by the Black Hills National Forest which
spans Wyoming and South Dakota, a substantial portion of the
forest is at high risk of insect infestation and
uncharacteristically severe wildfires. What steps is the Forest
Service taking to address those forest conditions in the Black
Hills and retain the forest products companies, which have been
critical to fighting the Mountain Pine Beetle and reducing
wildfire hazard?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, you're absolutely right, as
demonstrated by the timber harvest levels over the last 10
years. The Black Hills National Forest was close to or a little
over their allowable sale quantity in their current forest
plan. The Forest had been aggressively working to deal with the
impacts of the beetle outbreak that you referred to that has
occurred on the landscape for the last 15 years and the
majority of those impacts have been dealt with and the Forest
is positioned to move forward to tend to the younger stands and
create sustainable forest management harvest levels. And the
industry is a critical, critical tool and partner to make that
happen.
Senator Barrasso. I want to turn to the topic of tree
spiking. A Washington Post article 30 years ago, in 1990,
called tree spiking an ``eco-terrorist tactic.'' The article
went on to label it as a type of guerrilla warfare saying,
quote, this is the Washington Post, ``Tree spikes are among the
most vicious of the strategies. While the tree is still in the
forest, a spike is driven in at an angle so the head is hidden
in the bark. It can shatter a chain saw on impact sending
pieces of razor-sharp steel flying.''
Can spiked trees pose a physical danger to firefighters and
to loggers and to other forestry workers?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, I believe they could.
Senator Barrasso. So if someone were made aware of a tree
spiking incident in a national forest, should that person
immediately alert the police or the Forest Service?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator.
Senator Barrasso. So Tracy Stone-Manning is President
Biden's nominee for the Bureau of Land Management. She was
presented with this very choice and decided not to do the right
thing and go to the authorities. Today's front-page story in
the Washington Times that I'm going to submit for the record is
entitled, ``Tree Spiking Case Haunts Nominee for Public
Lands.''
[The online version of the article referred to, with
different title than the print version quoted by the Senator
follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Barrasso. This states Tracy Stone-Manning could
have told law enforcement after she learned that a friend had
driven railroad spikes into trees to stop a timber sale in
Idaho's Clearwater National Forest, but she did not.
The article goes on. Instead, Ms. Stone-Manning rented a
typewriter and rewrote the anonymous letter to the U.S. Forest
Service describing the locations of the booby-trapped trees.
She corrected spelling errors, removed some profanity. At her
friend's request, she mailed the letter.
Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent. The Washington
Times is not the only outlet to cover this shocking story of a
President Biden nominee. I ask unanimous consent to enter the
following articles into the record:
--From the Wall Street Journal under the headline, ``A Biden
Nominee's Radical Past'';
[The Wall Street Journal article referred to follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
--From the Daily Caller, ``Biden Bureau of Land Management
Nominee Tracy Stone-Manning Was Involved in `Eco-Terrorism'
Case, Resulted in College Roommate's Conviction, Prison
Sentence, Court Records Show'';
[The Daily Caller article referred to follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
--A story from the Associated Press, ``Biden nominee linked to
1989 sabotage draws Republican ire'';
[The Associated Press article referred to follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
--And from Fox News, ``Land Management nominee `collaborated
with eco-terrorists,' traded testimony for immunity.''
[The Fox News article referred to follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Barrasso. Mr. Chairman, it is my belief that she is
clearly disqualified to be the Director of the Bureau of Land
Management, which manages almost 65 million acres of federal
forests.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you for your answers.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Now we have Senator Wyden.
Senator Wyden. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
First, I want everybody to understand how those of us who
live in the West are so grateful to Vicki Christiansen for
decades of extraordinary public service. You have been there
for our communities again and again. God speed for a much-
earned retirement.
Now I want to tell you about the last couple of weeks
because I have been all over Oregon talking to your folks on
the ground, and it is hard to really convey the urgency of what
they are telling us here on this Committee. I have been through
a number of fire seasons. When I was in Medford, the hottest
day in history, and the weather service calls and says it is
the highest in a warning level they can give; and this
Committee, as you know, I was Chair, we always have said we are
going to get you the technologies--get you tankers or drones.
And as you know, Senator Crapo and I wrote the fire borrowing
law so you could focus on prevention. We have always said we'll
be there with you for your needs on the ground and that
continues.
Now given the seriousness of what we are faced with this
year, I want to kind of walk you through what I think we are
dealing with and get your plan for it. What you all have
historically done is always tried to share resources. So when
one area is hit hard, folks from another area, I see my friend
from, you know, Nevada here, so our area is hit, they help,
vice versa. This year in the West we could be looking at the
prospect of multiple fires, big ones, at the same time. So tell
us first, what is your plan for making sure that we can share
the resources, get more, and we're prepared to do it? I think
you will recall, you know, one year I was a junior member of
this Committee. Senator Bingaman, I believe sat where Chairman
Manchin is and I basically talked everybody into ordering some
tankers on the floor. In other words, we asked consent and
everybody said we need them.
So what is the plan for making sure we can keep people safe
when there are fires in multiple communities at the same time
in the West?
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you very much for your wishes and
your call to action and the urgency, Senator. I absolutely
agree with you. I'm worried about our employees, our
contractors, the people that work these lands and work these
fires. I'm very concerned about the communities and the
landscapes. And you're right, we call them preparedness levels,
one through five and the highest being five. We are seeing more
and more days in preparedness level four and five and that
means there's multiple geographical areas with high amounts of
fire and, quite frankly, for longer durations. And our ability
to have these surge capacities and move our resources around,
we have a competition for resources. In the last three to four
years, in particular, we have had more than several
circumstances--we call them, ``unable to fill resources''.
So we need a 21st century workforce and equipment and
technology. Thanks to the work with this Committee, we're
making some progress. We have a modernized airtanker fleet. We
are making some steps forward with our limited capacity of
resources, with advancing technology. We need more of a year-
round workforce. But I will say it: our system is at a breaking
point. We aren't changing as rapidly as we can.
Senator Wyden. It is very helpful. I just have one other
question that I know is important to you as well. Could you get
to us, through Chairman Manchin and the Ranking Member, a
written statement on what the plans are if we are short of
resources in the West? Could you get that to me and my
colleagues, the Chair and the Ranking Member, within a week?
Ms. Christiansen. We'd be happy to do that, Senator.
Senator Wyden. Great.
My last question is, I gather you all have been doing some
good work to crunch some numbers with respect to hazardous
fuels and what it would take to actually get ahead of hazardous
fuels loading and you have been looking at how much per acre it
might cost, and we have been doing the math, and I gather it
might be a thousand dollars per acre for 20 million acres. And
that you all are estimating what is needed to get in front of
the hazardous fuels challenge and the buildup is enormous.
They're magnets for fire. It might cost $20 billion. Is that
your current figure based on your estimates, Chief?
Ms. Christiansen. Over the next 10 years, $20 billion for
this paradigm shift is accurate, Senator.
Senator Wyden. Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Lee.
Senator Lee. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to
echo the congratulations of others and the heartfelt thanks for
your service.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
Senator Lee. Chief Christiansen, in May we received
testimony here in this Committee describing how forest
management activities are often undertaken deliberately,
intentionally, in order to bring about an increase in a
forest's rate of carbon sequestration. Are you worried about
the proposed reduction of timber volume sold, the reduction of
the target to 3.4 billion board feet down from 4 billion board
feet? Shouldn't we worry that that will negatively impact the
carbon sequestration of our forests?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, the target for this proposed
budget, 2022, is 3.4, you're correct. 3.2 billion board feet is
what we delivered this year. So it would be an increase. There
is more to forest management and treatment than just the board
feet. It's in creating the resilience of the forest. So other
treatments and harvesting timber and producing board feet is
one treatment and it's a very important treatment. But the
hazardous fuels treatments, so we can create resilience back
into the forest so we don't have these catastrophic fires that
put all this carbon up in the air and turn our forests into
carbon sinks instead of carbon storage.
So yes, it's the right balance of the strategic management
of these fire sheds. If we treat 30 to 40 percent of a fire
shed, we can reduce at least 80 percent of the risk and a part
of that treatment is board feet, but not the only part.
Senator Lee. As you know, the West is experiencing a
devastating drought. Across the whole region, reservoir levels
are at or near record lows and mountain snow pack, which slowly
releases during the spring and summer months, is largely
depleted. How did this consideration impact your funding
request?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, well, you will see an increase in
funding for what we call our wildland fire preparedness. We
currently support 10,000 firefighters, 900 engines, and up to
35 large air tankers. But as I've said before, we need to
modernize all of that, continue to modernize it. We need more
professional, we have professional people, a year-round
workforce that can do these hazardous fuels treatments, they
can do the prescribed fire and they can respond to wildland
fire, so, and the technology. We're making some progress, but
we are not keeping pace with the technology. So those are the
things that will go into the report that we're happy to provide
to this Committee.
Senator Lee. Thank you.
I noticed an increase of $50 million to be used for the
wild horse and burro appropriate management level range
restoration. The explanation states that, ``by reducing over-
grazing the Forest Service can promote native species and deter
invasive species.'' These are very laudable goals; however, as
you are likely aware, grazers in my state have already been
forced to decrease their AUMs due to range conditions. Would
this increase contribute to a restoration of producers' AUMs?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, we believe it would. As you know,
the appropriate management levels were way higher than they
should be for the wild horses and burros. We do not have a line
item at all in our budget. It comes completely out of our
rangeland management. So this increase will help us get back
into balance appropriately with wild horses and burros, and
provide more AUMs for our ranchers and grazers, absolutely.
Senator Lee. Removal and thinning of encroaching pinion
juniper woodlands has proven to be highly effective in
restoring healthy habitat, and also in increasing water
resource capacity and decreasing the risk of devastating
wildfires. However, such vegetation treatments are often
mischaracterized by those who do not like them for whatever
reason. They are often mischaracterized as deforestation. Do
you anticipate an increase of those treatments to be performed
under wildlife risk management accounts?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator. As noted, $400 million is
the requested increase in wildfire hazard mitigation and, just
as we discussed, it's all treatments of the landscape to bring
back the resilience and the watershed conditions. So we
absolutely know there will be more treatments.
Senator Lee. Thank you, Chief.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Kelly.
Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chief Christiansen, good morning. Arizona is leading the
nation in wildfires this summer and nearly one quarter of a
million acres have burned to date. Last weekend, I met
evacuees, ranchers, tribal members and local officials who are
reeling from the Mescal and Telegraph fires. The Telegraph fire
whipped across 80,000 acres in four days. Now those two fires
are connected and they continue to burn out of control. One
fire manager was quoted in the press as saying, this is a
quote. ``It's like having gasoline out there.'' Several homes
have been lost and more remain in harm's way. A number of
ranchers plan to sell their operations because the rangeland is
destroyed. At this moment, over 1,000 firefighters are working
in grueling, 110-degree days with one percent humidity.
So Chief Christiansen, I need your assurances that all
Forest Service resources will be brought to bear on this and to
every fire threatening Arizona lives and properties.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, you have my reassurance and
my commitment.
Senator Kelly. And then, after this, when we get the fires
under control, we have erosion issues. How quickly do you think
we can get some of these erosion-control projects deployed?
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you for knowing that post-fire is
just as important for health and safety and of course, the
environment and our ecosystems. We have a BAER team, a Burned
Area Emergency Rehabilitation team, that should be arriving on
the fire today. They will do the initial assessment and then
we'll do the immediate suppression repair and most critical
post-fire recovery work as soon as we get their assessments and
prioritization.
Senator Kelly. Thank you. I really appreciate the quick
response there.
Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
Senator Kelly. Thank you very much.
The northern and eastern parts of Arizona are densely
forested and as a former Arizona state forester, I believe you
understand that our ponderosa pine forests are drought stricken
and unhealthy. We need to be restoring 30,000 acres of national
forest every year for the next 20 years. I mean, that's the
plan under the Forest Service's Four Forest Restoration
Initiative, known as 4FRI. We have been waiting now five years
for the Forest Service to release contract awards under the
second phase of 4FRI. So Chief Christiansen, do you have an
idea of when the Forest Service will issue this next round of
4FRI contracts?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, you're absolutely right. It's
complicated. It's complex, and we have to get it right to be
able to attract the infrastructure and the industry that is
absolutely needed to restore those forests. I get it. When I
was state forester over 11 years ago, I was in on the ground
floor of 4FRI, and my patience is also very tested. But, you
know, to remain in compliance with the federal regulations on
procurement integrity, I'm not able to share a lot more about
the procurement process publicly. The plan is to make an award
in June of this year, this month. However, we have also
requested offers to extend their proposal acceptance period
into July, if necessary.
Senator Kelly. So you think the latest would be the end of
July for those next phases of contracts to be awarded?
Ms. Christiansen. We have extended that opportunity to the
potential offers, yes.
Senator Kelly. And are you involved in the selection
process or is there some independent source board within the
Forest Service doing that?
Ms. Christiansen. My Deputy Chief for the National Forest
System will have the final say, but we have a team evaluating
these proposals.
Senator Kelly. And I expect that one of the evaluation
criteria is--will this contract lead to creating a market for
these materials, whether they are some sort of building product
or wood pellets?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, capitalization of the infrastructure
needed to create the market has been the barrier that we're
really laser focused on how we can create that.
Senator Kelly. Well, thank you, I appreciate that because
without the market----
Ms. Christiansen. That's right.
Senator Kelly [continuing]. This has got to be run at a
pace that we need to get to this 30,000 acres per year target.
Ms. Christiansen. I hear you loud and clear.
Senator Kelly. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Daines was next, but he is not here right now so we
will go right to Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Great timing I say.
The Chairman. Your great timing.
Senator Hirono. Thank you.
Chief Christiansen, I want to add my best wishes to you for
a well-deserved retirement. Thank you for your service.
As we have discussed in the past, Hawaii has greatly
benefited from the Forest Service's help in combating the
dangerous pathogen, Rapid Ohia Death, or ROD. I am glad to see
that the Fiscal Year 2022 budget proposes a 14 percent increase
for the state and private forestry account that has provided
financial resources for addressing ROD in Hawaii. Can you talk
about some actions that the Forest Service is taking to respond
to emerging forest diseases in Hawaii and the Pacific Islands
and is there a connection to climate change?
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator. I just really
appreciate your focus on this very important tree species in
Hawaii and, you know, it's part of the culture, it's a part of
the watersheds, and it's a part of the life of Hawaii.
Senator Hirono. Yes.
Ms. Christiansen. And we are very committed to working on
the Rapid Ohia disease and other pathogens across the Pacific
Islands. As I think you know, we have the Institute for Pacific
Island Forestry there in Hawaii, and we are hiring additional
staff, for example, a quarantine officer at the Institute there
and our small biocontrol facility in Volcano, Hawaii. We work
very closely with the state, with ARS, and with APHIS within
USDA; and we are working together on plans for a combined,
larger and more contemporary bio control facility, one that
will be able to do the critical research. We have some good
leads on Rapid Ohia disease in bio controls, but by upping our
game with additional investments, we see some great progress on
the horizon.
And yes, in general, we believe there is a linkage to
climate change.
Senator Hirono. Thank you. And the next question was going
to be about the creation of a regional biological control
research facility and consultation or discussion with ARS,
APHIS and NRCS, so you are already doing that and I am really
glad for that.
As we talk about staffing and creating a better capacity
for us to deal with these diseases, we discussed last year, a
permanent forest pathologist to help the region address
existing and emerging pests and pathogens. So is the Forest
Service considering the hiring of a permanent forest
pathologist assigned to the Pacific Southwest Research Station?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, we are moving forward with this
professional scientist that may or may not be specifically a
pathologist, but they'll have this pest and disease background
to serve as a quarantine officer so the scientists that are
onsite can focus on their core science and additionally, we are
doing staffing, some human resource staffing plans for our
whole research and development organization, and this is in the
mix of our prioritization for a pathologist actually stationed
in Hawaii.
Senator Hirono. That is great news.
One of the programs that is funded by the Land and Water
Conservation Fund, which we have made permanent, is the Forest
Service Forest Legacy Program for which the budget proposes
$94.3 million in Fiscal Year 2022 and included in the FY22 list
of proposed Forest Legacy projects is a project in Hawaii, the
East Maui Forest Project, and I want to continue to work with
my colleagues and the Forest Service to ensure that this
particular project, as well as the other projects, are funded
and continues to proceed.
This is an interesting item that I wanted to point out. A
2018 research article published in the Journal of Forestry
revealed that racial and ethnic minorities utilize our national
forests at lower rates than those of their white counterparts,
and the article shows that though white Americans account for
about 63 percent of the nation's population, 95 percent of
individuals that visit national forests identified as white
Americans. The research article further found that racially
diverse areas are more likely to have higher inequality gaps.
Our national forests and public lands need to serve our
nation's diverse population. How does the Forest Service intend
to improve the utilization of our national forests among racial
and ethnic minorities and how can this Committee expand access
to recreation opportunities on federal public lands to
underrepresented populations?
Ms. Christiansen. Oh, Senator, that's a really important
question to me, and I know we're short on time. By doing that
research, number one, is . . . we can't fix what we don't
acknowledge, right?
Senator Hirono. Exactly.
Ms. Christiansen. So we have great researchers and we're
opening our systems up to look at our barriers, not just doing
programs, but to look at what's in the system. So we're doing
workshops with different ethnic groups, Afro Outdoors, Corazon
Latino and others to understand what the needs and the barriers
are. Now there are some systems and structures that I think
we're all responsible for. I think we all know we are under-
resourced for recreation, providing recreation on the National
Forest System, especially with a 200 percent increase and more
people are connecting with their lands. And if we are to
increase revenues outside of our regular appropriations, what
we have to do in the Forest Service is to increase the fees to
enter these sites. Now that should be a red flag for all of us
when we think about equal access for all people.
So I appreciate opening the conversation. We'll be happy to
work with you on how we can ensure all people have a connection
to their lands.
Senator Hirono. Thank you. We intend to do that.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you.
And now we have Senator Daines.
Senator Daines. Chairman Manchin, thank you.
Well, it is only June and Montanans are already being
evacuated for wildfires. A conversation I had last night with
law enforcement, county commissioners, and mayors are
conversations that usually we have in August we are having in
June. The front page of Montana papers today, so there is the
Great Falls Tribune about the fire over by Red Lodge, same
thing in the Billings Gazette, the Montana Standard out of
Butte. These are the front-page stories.
That Red Lodge fire is going over 24,000 acres. The Montana
Forest Action Plan identified over 9 million acres with
elevated fire risk and degraded forest health, but only 100,000
acres are treated each year, 9 million acres, elevated risk. At
this rate, it will take us 90 years to improve the health of
our forest and that is only if everything was completely
stagnant over the course of the next 90 years which, of course,
we know is not true. This means we will continue to see homes
and lives devastated by wildfires, wildlife driven from
habitat, watersheds destroyed, and good-paying jobs lost. You
have called for a paradigm shift in how we manage our forests
to prevent this scenario and I could not agree more, Chief
Christiansen.
In recent months, there have been resounding calls from
stakeholders across the entire political spectrum, various
advocacy groups, to triple the annual acreage treated in our
forests. That is why I was shocked that the Biden
Administration would propose reducing the national timber
volume from four billion board feet to 3.4 billion board feet.
I don't get it. As you are well aware, Chief Christiansen,
Region 1 is expected to miss this year's volume target by more
than 60 million board feet. The time we have seen lumber prices
hit historic highs, wildfires raging, but even if Montana did
meet our timber targets, the total volume would amount to just
over half of the allowable sale quantity called for in our
forest plans.
Chief Christiansen, how are we going to create this
paradigm shift in forest management to prevent and reduce the
risk of catastrophic wildfires while at the same time, reducing
timber volume targets?
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator.
I had a similar conversation with Senator Lee and I know
you weren't, I don't believe you were in the room. Timber
volume is a very important land management treatment tool and
we produce 3.2 billion board feet of timber that was sold last
year and this FY22 budget proposes that we sell 3.4 billion
board feet. So it is an increase from what we have done. But
additionally, as these fire threats, as the resilience of the
landscape where we have too much vegetation across the
landscape, yes, timber management is one of the tools, but
other treatments, the call to action, the paradigm shift is
treating two to four times more acres. That includes prescribed
fire, targeted grazing, hazardous fuels reduction, watershed
improvements. It's all of those in combination, strategically
placed on a fire shed. We treat 30 to 40 percent of a fire shed
which is a component of timber management, we can bring those
fire sheds back into balance and resilience and limit the
amount of catastrophic fire that we're seeing on the landscape.
Senator Daines. Thank you for that. As you are well aware,
Chief Christiansen, Region 1 is expected to miss their timber
targets due to litigation that has led to a backlog of ESA
consultations. One project in Montana took two and a half years
to analyze, resulting in 21 reports, over 800 pages of analysis
for a project that was thinning 320 acres per year over 10
years. Despite all this work, this project is now under
litigation. And again, the frustrating part is we get
stakeholders across the spectrum, conservation groups, as well
as local officials, supporting these projects and then these
outside groups with deep pockets come in and litigate.
Don't you agree that we must address the issues on our
forest holistically? And one of those measures is to seek to
remove some of the red tape and these frivolous lawsuits.
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, I can say that the notice of
intent to sue and the enormous amount of additional analysis,
not just by our agency, by U.S. Fish and Wildlife and others,
does set these important projects back significantly and we
would like to work out a way that we have good public
processes, we have environmental clearances that are
responsible and science-based and all people have a voice but
that we don't hold ourselves up for years getting this
important work done on the ground.
Senator Daines. I know I am running out of time and there
is a lot more to talk about, Chief, but I want to thank you for
your service. It has been really appreciated. We have enjoyed
working with you. You were instrumental in the Great American
Outdoors Act, working there with several of my colleagues to
include some Forest Service maintenance backlog as well. I
think that was a great improvement on the bill. I am grateful
for your dedication to improving the health of our forests as
well as our employees and protecting our communities. So I wish
you the very best in your well-deserved retirement.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator Daines.
The Chairman. Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Cortez Masto. Chief, thank you. I, too, want to
thank you for your years of service and commitment and wish you
well on your retirement, and as I am sitting here listening to
you answer the questions of my colleagues, I can see your
passion and commitment to what you do. So thank you so much.
Clearly, I am from Nevada. I am not going to belabor
things, we have seen fires. You know what is happening across
the West. You know what is happening in the State of Nevada. My
question to you is do you feel comfortable that this budget
provides the needs that your agency requires to not only battle
these fires, but talk about and address what you have been
talking about--which is the post-fire recovery, the prevention
(reducing the fuels), addressing invasive species, and a number
of other issues? That is really my concern. And let me add this
to it because I was really pleased to see in the 2022 budget
request an additional $400 million to accelerate restoration of
degraded forest and rangelands. Now that caught my attention
because most of the fires that we see in Nevada are rangeland
fires, as you well know, and they are just as devastating.
So my first question is, does the budget have the necessary
funding to address what you are talking to us today about?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, it's a step in the right
direction, a significant step in the right direction, but I'll
be honest with you, we had record wildfires in several states
and this budget does call for some post-fire recovery funds,
but it's just a first year. There are many years ahead, and we
could do more. It helps with modernizing our wildland fire
workforce. It doesn't get us everywhere that we need to be. I
am very concerned about our workforce. They are tired and
fatigued, and there's mental well-being and stress we're
concerned about. Many of these folks are temporary employees,
and they try to make a year's living in a six-to-nine-month
term. So there are still more things to address, but this
budget is a very good first step forward.
Senator Cortez Masto. First step, thank you. That is very
helpful.
And then please address, because you talked about how there
are 10,000 firefighters now and the stress that is really on
staff and firefighters and really the entire staff that are
undergoing these stresses right now--dealing with these fires
that we see across the West. Can you speak to the recruitment
and retention challenges that the agency is facing, not just
related to the budget, but what else should we be aware of?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, thank you for that question. You
know, it's a calling for most of our people. It's a calling to
do this work, but anybody should be able to have a living wage
in doing this work. So we do have concerns about a competitive
wage. With many of our states, it's not competitive. I mean,
the disparity is double. You can go to a state or local entity
and make double what you can as a federal wildland firefighter.
That's not across the board in every state, but in many states,
and the benefits, the benefits that go with the federal
packages are not accelerating like other wildland fire jobs,
especially to meet the intensity and the stress of the job.
We are prioritizing some of our funds for employee wellness
and well-being programming, but we are committed to working
with the Department of the Interior and others to do a
comprehensive look at our workforce needs.
Senator Cortez Masto. Please share that, because it's the
same thing I am hearing in my state from our fire chiefs.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
Senator Cortez Masto. It is a challenge, and this is
something we have to address, and that is one of the reasons
why I was interested in seeing your support and the funding,
$27 million, for a Civilian Climate Corps.
Ms. Christiansen. Absolutely.
Senator Cortez Masto. Yes, does that address some of the
concerns with respect to, maybe not on the ground, with
firefighting, but some of the other areas of prevention,
restoration, other things that can be done around these issues.
Ms. Christiansen. The Civilian Conservation Corps or
Climate Conservation Corps would absolutely add additional
capacity to get some important work done on the ground and to
invite underrepresented people into this space of conservation.
And we're really dedicated. We have a good foothold. We have a
strong legacy in history, in the Forest Service, with 21st
century Conservation Corps and of course, our Job Corps program
in which we run 24 Job Corps Centers that go back to the
Civilian Conservation Corps. So it's a very important tool to
increase our capacity.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I know my time is up. One
final thing, and I will submit this for the record for the Lake
Tahoe Restoration Act. We need full funding. We need support
there. I am going to submit some questions to you. We would
love to work with you, get some answers from you and support
for full funding----
Ms. Christiansen. Great.
Senator Cortez Masto [continuing]. For the Lake Tahoe
Restoration.
Ms. Christiansen. I look forward to that, Senator.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Hoeven.
Senator Hoeven. That was quick. Just in time.
The Chairman. Glad you made it.
Senator Hoeven. Yes.
Chief Christiansen, thank you for being here--national
grasslands, but you know, seeing the situation, given that we--
--
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, I really appreciate the
invitation. I was able to see so much when I was there, what,
20 months ago. You hosted me there and it gave me a lot of
insights and I asked a lot of--I've asked better questions of
our staff and probed harder because I saw those issues. I think
you're aware that I will be retiring in August. So I've looked
to our Deputy Chief of the National Forest System lands who is
directly responsible for all of the grassland programs. He is
delighted to come out in August, if we can make that work and
maybe bring a couple of his other directors. So they're the
ones that do all the churning and we can really get them on the
ground.
Thank you.
Senator Hoeven. Okay, thank you. Also, we have, on the
Great American Outdoors Act, we included, obviously, funding
for Restore Our Parks. That included federal funding as well
for things like the grasslands. We have set up a steering
committee with the grazing asociations. We want the Forest
Service working closely with that steering committee which
includes the grazing associations, the Governor's Office, the
Ag Commissioners Office and my folks, to coordinate the
maintenance funding that we will get on an annual basis now for
the grazing associations and so I ask for your commitment to
work with that steering committee. I think they can do a much
better job with that kind of coordination to allocate those
maintenance funds.
Ms. Christiansen. Absolutely. That was my leadership intent
to all of our units that they work locally and there's the
model that is being created there on the grasslands. I know
they've had their first meeting, which is exactly what I'm
praising and expecting all of our units to do.
Senator Hoeven. Would you consider expanding eligible road
improvement projects to include segments of Forest Service
roads under easement to a county along with roads that are
managed jointly by Forest Service and localities under road
maintenance agreements, again, part of the cooperative effort
because they put in money too and I think we could, you could,
leverage each other's funds. Is that something that you would
be willing to consider?
Ms. Christiansen. We will absolutely look at it. The
authority is the Great American Outdoors Act Legacy Restoration
Funds. If it allows, we'll certainly take a look at it.
Senator Hoeven. Good, good. Yes, I think it would be
helpful both to the Forest Service and to the counties and
townships out there as well as the grazing associations.
Also, would you consider starting over on Chapter 20 in
regard to the USFS Rangeland directives? That is a particular,
that chapter regarding our grazers, they want more input. They
feel it needs more work and would ask, actually, that you start
over with it and get fuller input from them.
Ms. Christiansen. Well, Senator, as you and I discussed a
couple weeks ago, the input from all communities, and we really
appreciate what the grazing association's input was. We
extended the review period by an initial 60 days so they could
provide those great comments. We are still analyzing their
comments. There was only over 2,500 comments, and it's going to
help shape and inform any final directive. So we'll have a look
at it, at the comments and if we think we need to go back out
and have conversations, we certainly will.
Senator Hoeven. Well, I would, again, ask that you engage
our grazers in regard to--I hope that 60-day timeline runs past
when we will have a visit then from the Deputy Chief. I think
that would----
Ms. Christiansen. Well, no, the comment period did close.
It was open for 60 days and then----
Senator Hoeven. Then we got it extended.
Ms. Christiansen [continuing]. We extended for an
additional 60 days, yes.
Senator Hoeven. Right.
Ms. Christiansen. We've gotten really detailed comments
from the grazing associations.
Senator Hoeven. Yes, I guess what I am getting at is I hope
that extension gets us through the time when we can get
somebody out on the ground----
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, I think it will.
Senator Hoeven [continuing]. To talk to the grazers. Okay,
thank you.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, you bet.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator King.
Senator King. Chief, it is great to have a chance to meet
with you. I was just looking at some data and in 1988 the board
feet sales from public lands were about 13 billion board feet.
Today, I think, as you testified, it's 3.2. What in the hell is
happening?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, we have taken an ecosystem
approach to our lands. We've calculated the sustainable sale
qualities, and we are not producing as much timber as we did in
the 1980's and we're not----
Senator King. I'll say, by a factor of about five.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, sir. And there is more growth in our
forests than the timber we are offering so we do need to offer
more timber.
Senator King. And I just noticed that coincidentally from
1991 to 2020, the number of acres burned has gone up by a
factor of five.
Is there a connection?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, sir, there is.
Senator King. What are the bottlenecks? And by the way, I
have been told that hundreds of sawmills have closed in the
last 40 years in the West because of a lack of timber, going
from 13 billion board feet to 3.2, clearly, has dried up the
supply. And yet, we are seeing record wood prices. What is
causing this dramatic decline in harvest? Is there any
allegation that we were overharvesting in 1988, 40 years ago,
almost 40, 35 years ago?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, it's a little more complex than
that. We've also been excluding fire. We've been suppressing
fire for the last 110 years.
Senator King. I am not suggesting it's a one-to-one
relationship.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
Senator King. But you testified that there is a
relationship, and my question is, ``why are we cutting so much
less wood?'' This is a renewable resource. The trees grow back.
Ms. Christiansen. Because there's too much small wood that
doesn't have a market. It doesn't have a market, and we need to
create those markets.
Senator King. But in my state, as you know, Maine is the
most forested state in America. It's also almost virtually all
private. The private landowners cut in those forests, pre-
commercial thinning it's called.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
Senator King. Which is both better for fire suppression and
also ultimately better for commercial timber development, isn't
that correct?
Ms. Christiansen. That is correct. Absolutely.
Senator King. So if there were more commercial, market-
based policies being applied in our forests, we'd have a
healthier forest, would we not?
Ms. Christiansen. Well, yes, yes. The pre-commercial
thinning that you referred to on private lands in Maine is very
important to create that bigger, marketable forest product and
in the millions----
Senator King. And to minimizing fire danger.
Ms. Christiansen. And to minimizing fire danger, but in the
terrain and the slopes that we have in the 193 million acres of
National Forest System lands, it's not a one for one where we
can put contractors out and do pre-commercial thinning. We need
to do prescribed fire. We need to do other hazardous fuels
treatments to create the right kinds of forests that are
merchantable and healthy and resilient.
Senator King. Well, here is another figure that bothers
me--30 percent of the forest land in America is federal. 70
percent of acreage burned last year was on federal land.
There's something wrong here.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, yes, I absolutely agree. We need to
do more work, Senator. That's the paradigm shift that I'm
referring to. We need to treat two to four times more acres
than we do now.
Senator King. But when you say treat, I hear that word and
I think, you know, chemicals or something. You are really, are
you not, talking about more harvesting?
Ms. Christiansen. I'm talking about more harvesting. I'm
talking about more prescribed fire. I'm talking about more
mechanical, pre-commercial thinning or hazardous fuels
reduction. I'm talking about targeted grazing. It's all of
those tools: all are treatments.
Senator King. You are the world's expert on this and for
the record, I would like if you could give us a page or two on
why the dramatic decline of a couple hundred percent since the
late 80's. Are there statutory things, for example, that have
contributed to that?
Ms. Christiansen. Sure.
Senator King. Is it litigation? Is it regulatory? What are
the barriers to getting to a place where we would have both a
more robust, stronger wood supply with stronger employment in
the West and also less fire? So could you get back to us?
Ms. Christiansen. We'd be happy to do that, Senator, yes.
Senator King. Thank you very much.
Ms. Christiansen. You're welcome.
Senator King. I appreciate your extraordinary service and
your straightforward testimony here today.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Risch.
Senator Risch. Thank you.
Ms. Christiansen, I think Senator King has probably
expressed the frustration everyone has regarding production of
fiber on the national forests. When I graduated from and, by
the way, Dale Bosworth, one of your predecessors was in my
class when we graduated in 1965, great guy, good friend. When
we graduated from college, there were over 40 mills in Southern
Idaho cutting timber, cutting logs. Today they are down to one.
And it has just been heartbreaking to see them close one after
the other. The initial cause was, there was a lot of litigation
that really shut down supply and then, of course, it went from
there to other things, the fire, notoriously, has really caused
us a problem. But I think Senator King makes a good point. We
stand by and we watch this and everybody is complaining about
the price of lumber and yet, we have lots and lots and lots of
lumber, but it is still standing in the forests.
And congratulations on a career, I guess you are going to
call it good in August. Is that right?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
Senator Risch. Well, that is good.
Look, I want to talk to you about a very parochial issue in
Idaho. Are you familiar with the post office sale in the
Clearwater National Forest?
Ms. Christiansen. I am not familiar with that particular
sale.
Senator Risch. Well, let me refresh your memory. You will
probably know it when you hear about it. The post office sale
was the sale that was put up some decades ago and the tree
spikers went in and put about 500 pounds of spikes into the
trees in the sale, and I am assuming you are very familiar with
the practice of tree spiking and what that does and the fatal
dangers that it causes for people that work in the mill. You
are familiar with that situation?
Ms. Christiansen. I'm aware, yes, sir.
Senator Risch. Yes. We have a woman who has been nominated
to head the Bureau of Land Management by the name of Tracy
Stone-Manning. She was involved and conspired and participated
with these tree spikers in that sale back in the post office
sale. The post office sale has trees still standing that have
tree spikes in them. Do you have any kind of program, as far as
trying to root out which of those trees? They tell me that the
spikes, some of them are 150 feet off of the ground. Do you
have any kind of program that addresses those trees that are
still standing that will be there for a long time, perhaps
generations?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, I'll have to get back to you on
that, not that I'm specifically personally aware of.
Senator Risch. Okay. Well, I ask that because this is a
serious issue and this woman who has been nominated, I am very
much opposed to, in fact, one of my good democrat friends
conceded, yes, she made a mistake some decades back. Tree
spiking is not a mistake. A mistake is when you reach in your
sock drawer in the morning and you take two different kinds of
socks. When you set out to knowingly, willfully, intentionally
with malice of forethought, black and abandoned, malignant
heart, to take someone else's life, that's not a mistake. And I
cannot imagine that, why the Administration is looking at this
person for this.
I understand that everybody wants to include everyone in
the Administration, but I would think that the constituency of
tree spikers is not one that you want to pander to. I am
assuming you would not hire someone that has a history of tree
spiking in your organization?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, that is not something that we
would particularly look at.
Senator Risch. Maybe you want to clarify that, when you say
look at, yes, certainly you would look at whether or not they
had been involved in tree spiking.
Ms. Christiansen. Well----
Senator Risch. But I am gathering you are saying it is not
somebody you want in your organization.
Ms. Christiansen. We do not question for that kind of
activity.
Senator Risch. Really?
Ms. Christiansen. In reference checks, what kind of
employee they could be at the time of service that we're hiring
them for.
Senator Risch. Okay, so you do not, you would not look at
the background of somebody that had been involved in this kind
of conduct before? If that came to your attention, that would
not affect their hiring qualifications?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, I can get back to you.
Senator Risch. Yes, because that would be amazing to me, to
be honest with you. I mean, this is like what ISIS and Al-Qaeda
do when they put IEDs alongside the road. I mean, this
indicates a depravity somewhere. Someone's heart and soul, it
is not a mistake that someone, you can just say, I'm sorry.
Okay, we are going to move on. I would be shocked to hear that
you would not consider this and particularly someone in a
management position.
Senator Risch. But in any event, I would appreciate it if
you would get back to me of what it is you are doing about
this. I think a lot of people do not fully understand what
happens when you spike a tree, when the tree goes through the
mill you have innocent people standing there who have nothing
to do with anything other than they are hard-working people
trying to support their family and their spouse or children.
And when a saw hits one of these, can you--you have seen
instances of this in a mill, have you not?
Ms. Christiansen. I have personally not seen one.
Senator Risch. You have read about it described----
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, sir.
Senator Risch. Okay. Can you tell the Committee what
happens when a saw hits a spike in the log when it is going
through the, when the carriage is moving toward the saw or----
Ms. Christiansen. I can't, in particular. It could harm a
person if it hits a person.
Senator Risch. Well, in fact, it has happened, has it not?
The saw explodes when it hits a spike in the log, is that
correct?
Ms. Christiansen. I am not----
Senator Risch. You are not familiar with that?
Ms. Christiansen [continuing]. I'm not the expert on what
happens----
Senator Risch. Surely, you have heard about what happens
when a saw----
Ms. Christiansen. I have heard about it, yes, Senator.
Senator Risch [continuing]. And it sends shrapnel that
kills people throughout, with people that are in the immediate
area, is that a fair description that you have heard?
Ms. Christiansen. I cannot recall where somebody has been
killed, but that's a long time ago that I read about those
instances. So I may not recall every detail.
Senator Risch. Alright, thanks. I would appreciate it if
you would get back to me on what is going to happen at the post
office sale.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you. I have one other question. We will
go back to where Senator King was because it is so important,
and I think I mentioned it, though Senator King went into more
detail. I would like to go into a little bit more detail as
well. On page 140 of your budget, there is a number for acres
treated that is different than the 2.65 million acres or 3.7
million acres you mentioned. It is acres that have effectively
mitigated wildlife risk.
Ms. Christiansen. Wildfire risk?
The Chairman. I'm sorry, wildfire risk. It says that your
target for last year was 1.1 million acres and this year it is
1.4. It also looks like you have not met your target in several
years. How are the numbers different from the ``2.65 million
acres treated'' target that you are proposing?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, I'm proposing an additional 2.65
million acres in addition to our targets that you see in that
budget. I, not having the numbers in front of me that you read
off, I can't.
The Chairman. We will share that with you----
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, we'd be glad to explain that.
The Chairman. Let me throw this at you and see what you
think--I am also told, and I think Senator King was alluding to
this, there is an awful lot of acres that you all are treating
that have not been identified as high-risk because you're just
trying to, I guess, make sure it does not become high risk.
Ms. Christiansen. Exactly.
The Chairman. But we are not treating the eminent danger of
those high-risk areas because they are on a rotation. That
makes sense. That is what I understand.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, no, it makes sense and that's a part
of this paradigm shift. It's not just treating more acres in
any acres. Those that are less high-risk.
The Chairman. You know where the risk truly is,
inherently----
Ms. Christiansen. We have the modeling and the science. We
have incredible science capacity. We call it scenario
investment planning by high-risk.
The Chairman. What's preventing us from doing it? Is there
some impediment? It is either the environmental communities or
just completely out----
Ms. Christiansen. It's funding, sir.
The Chairman. It's funding?
Ms. Christiansen. It's funding.
The Chairman. But I am saying if we see that you were not
treating in the right places, you know, once you identify the
right places with these models, and still yet we did not
approach that ``acres effectively mitigated'' goal in the past
year or the year before.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, but the outputs we're held
accountable for are just acres treated and we're working with
the Office of Management and Budget to have an outcome-based
performance measure because some of the acres that we need to
treat in the high-risk firesheds are around communities, and
they might be really expensive.
The Chairman. Okay.
Ms. Christiansen. And that means less acres treated, and we
need to still show an outcome when targeting our work. We have
to be held accountable for something, but it needs to be an
outcome-based metric, not just our units treating as many acres
as they can.
The Chairman. I got you.
Ms. Christiansen. Because that's the only performance
measure we're holding them accountable to right now.
The Chairman. I think you know this is of great interest to
us and when is your retirement?
Ms. Christiansen. My retirement is at the end of August.
The Chairman. Okay. Now we have a couple months here.
Senator King. Mr. Chairman, I move a unanimous consent
agreement that she is not being allowed to retire.
The Chairman. I would second that.
[Laughter.]
Senator King. Sorry about that.
The Chairman. Ms. Christiansen, you know, we really, I
really, appreciate your work and testimony. I know that Senator
King, as I am sure everyone here, appreciates your direct
honesty on what we have in terms of some challenges.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
The Chairman. If our Committee could engage with you
immediately before you leave that would give us some direction
of changes we might want to make.
Senator King, I think you could be of immense help to us to
make sure that we target our funding and work.
Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
The Chairman. Okay.
Ms. Christiansen. And Secretary Vilsack is going to name a
new Chief within the next couple weeks.
The Chairman. Great.
Ms. Christiansen. And I'll stick around to transition with
the new Chief so maybe we'll even bring both of us up.
The Chairman. Well, we have a Subcommittee, Senator
Hickenlooper is on that Subcommittee, chaired by Senator Cortez
Masto. We will get right with them. Bryan from our staff and
Senator Hickenlooper, and Senator King's staff also. We will
work to make sure that we can get a direct target on what we
need to do immediately.
Ms. Christiansen. Okay.
The Chairman. Okay.
Ms. Christiansen. Alright.
The Chairman. Senator King, do you have any other
questions?
Ms. Christiansen. And Senator Manchin, could I just for the
record state in my exchange with Senator Risch that background
checks on performance is something we do in our hiring
processes. We do background checks.
The Chairman. Yes, Senator Hickenlooper is walking here
right now. He wanted to ask you a question. So we are holding.
Ms. Christiansen. Oh, sure.
The Chairman. Is that him now? There he is. Look. Look at
that. We held it for you, sir.
Just for you.
Senator Hickenlooper, you're on, if you're ready.
Senator Hickenlooper. I'm a little out of breath.
The Chairman. Take a breath.
Senator Hickenlooper. But I am grateful to get a chance to
talk to you. I followed a little bit of it as I was jumping in
and out of other meetings. Thank you so much for holding on.
Ms. Christiansen, prior to the 2000's, Colorado had never
had a single 100,000-acre fire in our recorded history. In
2020, in one year, we had a 175,000-acre fire. We had a
190,000-acre fire, and we have our first ever 200,000-acre
fire. The devastation not just to the national forest, but to
private lands and structures is astonishing and heartbreaking.
I know that the problems caused by these fires don't stop once
the flames are out, as you guys have already been discussing,
and as we see with a melting snow pack and summer rains coming,
many of our problems are just beginning.
How can we work better with the U.S. Forest Service to
prevent massive damage to our watersheds and to our water
infrastructure?
Ms. Christiansen. Well, Senator Hickenlooper, you know, I
just have to say, I hear you. 41 years ago, I started as a
wildland firefighter and a 20,000-acre fire was pretty darn
big, and you know, in the 41 years since, it's just
accelerated. And we have a billion burnable acres in this
nation, and as you well know, in many, many of these
landscapes, fire is a necessary part of the landscape, but fire
is needed in the right balance for the fuel conditions. And we
have large, large, large areas of fuel continuity where we have
undergrowth, where fire hasn't burned through it and taken the
undergrowth, and that has suppressed the growth of the larger
trees.
And we have to treat, and I know there's some clarity
needed when I say ``treat'', and I'll get to that. We need a
paradigm shift. We have to treat two to four times more acres
than we treat now at the Forest Service. We treat about three
million acres a year. We need to treat 2.65 million additional
acres for the next 10 years to see a marked change in the high-
risk fire sheds. And when I say treat, that is everything from
prescribed fire to naturally managed fire, where appropriate.
It means hazardous fuels, mechanical reductions, pre-commercial
thinning and timber harvest and grazing--targeted grazing where
we can.
That's what we needed to do in the long game so we don't
have these after-effects of post-fire that you're referring to.
In the short term, when we do have these catastrophic fires,
not fires that are in balance, we need to do significantly more
investment across boundaries because fire knows no boundaries,
and we're working hard with our partners at the Natural
Resource Conservation Service so that we can stitch together
our authorities, you know, what we can do on the national
forest, what they can do to assist point sources of protection
of watersheds and other public values on the private lands.
And there's some good work going on in Colorado, but in the
end, we need more funding as well, sir.
Senator Hickenlooper. Sure, and I would hope--also one of
the things that struck me in the years we fought fires while I
was Governor of Colorado, that we never seemed to have the data
that one wants, in other words, of all the ways we fight fires,
so many of them are still very similar to what, when you first
came on board.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
Senator Hickenlooper. And the real questions about where is
money being wasted. It seems like if it stays this warm and
with the winds, you still have a steady breeze, no matter what
we do, the fire just marches forward. And I think we do have to
do a much better job and this takes funding, I recognize, of
collecting that data.
I also want to look at some innovation ideas, innovative
ideas like funding something like the Civilian Conservation
Corps or Civilian Climate Corps, I guess is what they've been
calling it to enlist young people in these efforts. I would
love to hear your vision on that as well, and I realize I am
almost out of time.
Ms. Christiansen. Well, we're very excited about building
on a long legacy that the Forest Service has starting with the
original Civilian Conservation Corps, which are now Job Corps
Centers (which we run 24 of those) and to bring conservation
jobs to our youth, especially youth that are at-risk. This is
one of the best benefits one could get out of a career and then
additionally, we have over 11,000 service corps members through
our 21st Century Conservation Corps efforts within a series of
the core networks. So to add to that capacity, to focus on
climate-smart practices and nature-based solutions around
climate, we could really up our game in helping to contribute.
Senator Hickenlooper. Right.
Ms. Christiansen. And invite youth of all backgrounds into
conservation.
Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, I appreciate that. I yield
back.
Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator King.
Senator King. Well, I am going to take a minute.
The Chairman. You take your time.
Senator King. One of the concerns I know is from the
environmental point of view about carbon. We're all concerned
about carbon and climate, as I am, and I have been deeply
involved in these issues for many years. One of the things I
have learned in studying the issues of the forest is that a
growing forest sequesters more carbon than a mature forest.
Growing trees sequester more carbon and, of course, that
implies that it's okay to cut trees because they grow back, and
you can increase the carbon sink value of an acre. But the
other piece is harvested timber that goes into lumber, the
carbon remains sequestered, in a house or in a building or in a
piece of plywood. On the other hand, when these fires occur,
that carbon is released with a vengeance.
So I think from a point of view of carbon, if greater
harvesting, and I am not talking about massive clear cutting, I
am talking about reasonable commercial harvesting, as we do in
Maine. That can actually contribute to the sequestration of
carbon as opposed to what is an undeniable, and I think you
have testified to it, relationship between a lack of harvesting
and pre-commercial thinning and fires, which are a massive
release of carbon in a very dramatic way. Is my analysis
correct?
Ms. Christiansen. You're absolutely right, Senator. First
and foremost is to keep the forests on the land in a healthy
condition so they don't burn up.
Senator King. Right.
Ms. Christiansen. And emit all the carbon, and they can be
a part of the carbon storage. And sometimes we have to harvest
the smaller trees in the forest to keep the resilience, the
underbrush and all of that while we grow the bigger trees in
the forest and that can be of a commercial product. And then,
you're absolutely right, the good news. It's identified in the
life cycle analysis: carbon is stored in harvested wood
products and thanks to the foresight of many that came before
us, we have a forest inventory and analysis, FIA. It's the tree
and carbon census. So it's the tree census and the forest
census, wall to wall for all lands in this country. And we're
coveted around the globe for having this kind of inventory
that's held by the Forest Service, and we can create those
carbon calculations, and that life cycle analysis of the
importance of how we still harvest trees, and it is stored in
these wood products for years to come.
Senator King. Thank you. I appreciate it. And in fact, I am
introducing legislation to have a Blue Ribbon Commission to
examine the inventory process to see if it needs to be changed
in any way to more accurately reflect information that we need
going forward.
Ms. Christiansen. Good.
Senator King. But again, I deeply appreciate the work that
you have done and look forward, hopefully, as Senator Manchin
said, to an informal meeting.
Ms. Christiansen. Sure.
Senator King. Perhaps before your departure.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Christiansen. Appreciate it, thank you.
The Chairman. First of all, let me just say, thank you
again, and I would be remiss if we missed this opportunity
because you might not be appearing before our Committee before
your retirement. Do you have any closing remarks, anything you
would like to say? And you have a month or so, we're going to
be picking your brain pretty heavily, I can tell, to see what
we can do to make this a better place.
Ms. Christiansen. Well, thank you for that opportunity,
Chairman Manchin. You know, I know I am biased. I know our
nation's forests are one of the most important assets for a
variety of reasons, social, economic and environmental. They're
all important, and you know, this Committee's commitment
through the fire funding fix, the Great American Outdoors Act,
your deep concern and questioning about the management and the
use and the benefits that flow from our forests. It takes the
commitment, the heart and soul of all of us to know how
important these forests are, but it's also the people. It's the
people that connect with forests, whether it's our employees,
whether it's the youth, whether it's the water faucet that's
turned on in our inner cities, and they don't even know where
their water comes from. We just know the importance of this
blessed resource that we have in this nation, and I just thank
you for keeping that commitment and that connection between
what I am passionate about, which is connecting people with
their natural resources; and this Committee has helped a long
way toward that.
The Chairman. Well, thank you so much. I think what we need
to do, Senator King and myself have both seen forests that have
been managed privately, and we do not have these devastating
events such as forest fires to ones that we do not manage in
the forests under our purview, the U.S. Government. So we think
we can do a better job. We think you do have that knowledge to
share with us that will help us immensely, and we look forward
to that in the next two months, extracting everything we can so
that we can make a better forest for the United States of
America.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you very much.
The Chairman. Thank you very much.
With that, members will have until the close of business
tomorrow to submit additional questions for the record.
The Chairman. We are adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:35 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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