[Senate Hearing 117-139]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-139
STONE-MANNING, BAKER, WALSH,
AND LIGHT NOMINATIONS
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
to
CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF TRACY STONE-MANNING TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE
BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT; SHALANDA H. BAKER TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE
OFFICE OF MINORITY ECONOMIC IMPACT, DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY; SAMUEL T.
WALSH TO BE GENERAL COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY; AND ANDREW E. LIGHT
TO BE AN ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF ENERGY (INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS)
__________
JUNE 8, 2021
__________
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
44-958 PDF WASHINGTON : 2023
COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
Renae Black, Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West
Virginia....................................................... 1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
Wyoming........................................................ 2
WITNESSES
Tester, Hon. Jon, a U.S. Senator from Montana.................... 4
Stone-Manning, Tracy, nominated to be Director of the Bureau of
Land Management................................................ 6
Baker, Shalanda H., nominated to be Director of the Office of
Minority Economic Impact, Department of Energy................. 11
Walsh, Samuel T., nominated to be General Counsel, Department of
Energy......................................................... 15
Light, Dr. Andrew E., nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of
Energy (International Affairs)................................. 19
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Aiken Audubon Society et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 142
American Forests:
Letter for the Record........................................ 146
American Motorcyclist Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 148
American Woodcock Society et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 151
Associated Logging Contractors, Inc.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 153
Backcountry Hunters & Anglers:
Letter for the Record........................................ 154
Baker, Shalanda H.:
Opening Statement............................................ 11
Written Testimony............................................ 13
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 110
Barrasso, Hon. John:
Opening Statement............................................ 2
Boich Companies:
Letter for the Record........................................ 155
Bullock, Hon. Steve:
Letter for the Record........................................ 158
Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Nation:
Letter for the Record........................................ 165
Dallas Safari Club:
Letter for the Record........................................ 175
Herrell, Hon. Yvette et al:
Letter for the Record........................................ 177
Light, Dr. Andrew E.:
Opening Statement............................................ 19
Written Testimony............................................ 21
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 125
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
Missoula County Commissioners:
Letter for the Record........................................ 162
Montana American Indian Caucus:
Letter for the Record........................................ 159
National Association of State Energy Officials:
Letter for the Record in support of Shalanda Baker........... 166
Letter for the Record in Support of Samuel Walsh............. 167
Letter for the Record in support of Andrew Light............. 168
National Forum for Black Public Administrators:
Letter for the Record........................................ 169
National Wildlife Federation et al:
Letter for the Record........................................ 173
Outdoor Recreation Roundtable Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 171
Salmon River Cattlemens Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 164
Stone-Manning, Tracy:
Opening Statement............................................ 6
Written Testimony............................................ 8
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 53
Tester, Hon. Jon:
Opening Statement............................................ 4
Walsh, Samuel T.:
Opening Statement............................................ 15
Written Testimony............................................ 17
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 119
West Virginia Rivers Coalition:
Letter for the Record........................................ 157
Western Leaders Network:
Letter for the Record........................................ 180
STONE-MANNING, BAKER, WALSH,
AND LIGHT NOMINATIONS
----------
TUESDAY, JUNE 8, 2021
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:06 a.m. in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin
III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III, U.S. SENATOR FROM
WEST VIRGINIA
The Chairman. We meet today to consider four pending
nominations. The four nominees are Ms. Tracy Stone-Manning, to
be Director of the Bureau of Land Management, Ms. Shalanda
Baker, to be the Director of the Office of Minority Economic
Impact at the Department of Energy, Mr. Samuel Walsh, to be the
General Counsel of the Department of Energy, and Dr. Andrew
Light, to be the Assistant Secretary of Energy for
International Affairs.
Welcome to all four nominees and your family that is with
you. Thank you for being here this morning and for your
willingness to serve in these important positions. And again,
your family is so well represented here with you, and
supportive, and that is always a good thing.
In addition, we are fortunate to have Senator Jon Tester
from the great State of Montana to join us this morning to
introduce one of the nominees, Ms. Stone-Manning. Welcome,
Senator Tester. It is always good to have you, and you are
always welcome.
Before hearing from Senator Tester and the nominees, I will
make a few remarks about each of the nominees and then turn to
Senator Barrasso for his opening remarks, then we will go to
Senator Tester.
The job for which our first nominee, Ms. Stone-Manning, has
been nominated is older than the Interior Department itself.
Although the Bureau of Land Management as we now know it was
created by President Truman in 1946, the Bureau traces its
roots to the General Land Office, which Congress created over
200 years ago to manage our public lands. It is also a big job.
The Bureau manages 245 million surface acres and another 700
million acres of subsurface. It manages hardrock minerals,
coal, oil, and natural gas development on federal onshore
lands. It grants rights-of-way for electric transmission lines
and oil and gas pipelines across federal lands, permits grazing
on public lands, and manages timber on federal forest lands in
the Northwest. It is responsible for 28 national monuments, 23
national conservation areas, and 260 wilderness areas.
Nearly 50 years ago, Congress established a policy that our
public lands must be managed in a manner that will both meet
the nation's needs for their natural resources and preserve
their special environmental values. That is not an easy task.
It requires the Director to balance competing and often
conflicting demands. Ms. Stone-Manning has served in Senator
Tester's office as head of Montana's Department of
Environmental Quality, as Governor Bullock's Chief of Staff,
and at the National Wildlife Federation.
Our next nominee is Shalanda Baker, who has been nominated
to be the Director of the Office of Minority Economic Impact at
DOE. The Office was established by Congress and named Office of
Minority Economic Impact in 1978. The Office's purpose is
twofold. It advises the Secretary of Energy on the impact of
energy policies on minority communities, and it ensures that
minorities and minority businesses are afforded the opportunity
to participate fully in energy programs. Ms. Baker has devoted
her professional life to studying and addressing the health,
environmental, economic, and climate impacts on disadvantaged
communities.
Our next nominee is Sam Walsh. Sam Walsh has been nominated
to be the Department of Energy's General Counsel. The General
Counsel provides legal advice and counsel to the Secretary and
indeed, the entire Department. It is the General Counsel's job
to give sound answers to the countless questions of law that
the Department faces across the breadth of its missions. Mr.
Walsh is no stranger to the General Counsel's office. He served
as a Senior Legal Advisor to the General Counsel for two years,
as Associate General Counsel for two years, and as Deputy
General Counsel for Energy Policy for two years. He has spent
the past four and half years practicing energy law.
And finally, our fourth nominee is Andrew Light, who has
been nominated to be the Assistant Secretary of Energy for
International Affairs. Energy markets have long been world
markets. Congress recognized this when it created the
Department of Energy nearly 45 years ago and gave the
Department technical and policymaking roles to help shape the
nation's foreign policy on energy matters. Here again, these
functions hold special importance today as we confront the
global reality of climate change. We cannot, nor should we, try
to solve the climate crisis on our own. It is not a national
problem or a regional one, but a global crisis, and we must
work with other nations to solve it. Dr. Light brings to the
job valuable diplomatic experience as a Senior Advisor and
Counselor to our Special Envoy on Climate Change during the
Obama Administration and as Consultant on Climate Change at the
World Resources Institute.
At this point, I am going to recognize Senator Barrasso for
his opening statement before hearing from the nominees and
Senator Tester.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman. I would
also like to welcome our nominees, Tracy Stone-Manning,
Shalanda Baker, Samuel Walsh, and Andrew Light, to the
Committee. Congratulations to each of you on your nominations.
Ms. Stone-Manning has been nominated to serve as the
Director of the Bureau of Land Management at the Department of
the Interior. If confirmed, Ms. Stone-Manning will oversee over
247 million acres of federal lands. That is one in every ten
acres in the United States. It is about 12 percent, overall, of
our nation's landmass. She will also manage approximately 30
percent of America's minerals. By law, she will be required to
govern these resources in a way that ensures their multiple
use.
The Director of the Bureau of Land Management has a
tremendous amount of power. In this role, Ms. Stone-Manning,
will have the authority over lands and minerals in every state,
including my home State of Wyoming. Wyoming is proud to be
America's leading producer of coal, uranium, trona, and
bentonite. Almost 50 percent of Wyoming's surface area and
almost 70 percent of our minerals are owned by the Federal
Government. We rank number one in federal natural gas
production and number two in federal oil production. In
addition, grazing, recreation, and off-highway vehicle access
on BLM lands are all critically important to Wyoming.
The Bureau of Land Management needs a director who believes
in and is committed to upholding the agency's multiple-use
mandate. Based on her record, I am concerned that Ms. Stone-
Manning does not fill the bill. Her career has been defined by
her support for policies that restrict multiple-use activities
on public lands. On Twitter and in other public forums, she has
expressed views that threaten the livelihoods of energy
producers, of ranchers, of farmers, of loggers, and others with
a stake in the responsible use of our natural resources. She
opposes an American energy-dominance agenda. She supports
prohibiting oil and gas development on federal lands and
waters. She believes it was wrong to relocate the Bureau of
Land Management's headquarters from Washington, DC, to Grand
Junction, Colorado, so it would be closer to the resources that
the agency manages and the people it serves.
Perhaps most troubling is Ms. Stone-Manning's unvarnished
political partisanship. In a tweet from February, she summarily
dismissed concerns expressed by me and my Republican colleagues
about then-Congresswoman Haaland's nomination to be Secretary
of Interior as nothing more than ``a dog whistle reserved for a
candidate of Haaland's tribal status and gender.'' Last year,
for political gain, she smeared a champion of common-sense
conservation and a member of this Committee. As a member of the
Board of Directors and Treasurer of the Montana Conservation
Voters, Ms. Stone-Manning signed off on political ads attacking
Montana Senator Steve Daines, while Montanans saw right through
it and so have I. I look forward to hearing Ms. Stone-Manning's
explanation for why Republicans like me and Senator Daines and
other colleagues on this side of the dais should have
confidence that she will work with us in good faith and in a
bipartisan fashion.
I also look forward to hearing the testimony of our other
nominees, Ms. Baker, Mr. Walsh, and Dr. Light. I hope they will
explain how they plan to promote an all-of-the-above energy
strategy that successfully leverages all of America's abundant
energy resources. Congratulations again to all of the nominees.
I look forward to hearing the testimony.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
And now, we will recognize Senator Tester to introduce Ms.
Stone-Manning.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JON TESTER,
U.S. SENATOR FROM MONTANA
Senator Tester. Thank you, Chairman Manchin, and I want to
also thank Ranking Member Barrasso for holding this meeting.
As a Montanan, there are few things that can rival our love
for the importance of our public lands. We raise our children
on these lands. We make a living off these lands. If Senator
Daines was here--he is not--I would say he proposed to his wife
on these lands. So it is my pleasure today to introduce my
fellow Montanan, somebody who exhibits uncommon common sense,
somebody who has two ears and one mouth and acts accordingly,
someone who is a critical thinker, thinks reasonably, and
promotes reasonable decisions. That person is also President
Biden's nominee to run the Bureau of Land Management.
Look folks, the last time I sat in this committee room was
to introduce Ryan Zinke, a Republican representative, who
President Trump nominated to lead the Department of the
Interior, and I supported him in that position. While we may
not always see eye-to-eye, with all due respect to everyone
here, Montanans know there is no better person for a job like
the BLM position than a fellow Montanan, and you may ask why.
Because Tracy is a proven leader with a track record of working
across the aisle to get things done. She is honest. She is
driven by facts, not political ideology. She is adept at
managing the needs of diverse interests, and I know she is a
perfect choice to run the BLM.
Tracy and I first crossed paths when she was in charge of
restoring the Clark Fork River, a critical watershed that after
years of toxic runoff and neglect was in bad shape. So Tracy
did not sit on her hands. She brought together a diverse
coalition made up of conservationists--listen to me--
conservationists, organized labor, industry, agencies, and
elected officials from every level of government and got them
rowing in the same direction to clean up and protect the Clark
Fork River and the basin it runs in. I was deeply impressed
with her work on that project, so I did like any of us would
do--hired her--and I hired her to be my Missoula Regional
Director and lead up the natural resource portfolio. Tracy
played a key role on my staff in jump-starting conversations
between people who had spent years battling one another in
courtrooms and the press. These folks range from individuals in
the timber community, to wildlife and wilderness advocates, to
small business owners. Ultimately, we saw some important timber
projects move forward and breathtaking landscapes protected.
After leaving my staff, Tracy went on to lead the Montana
Department of Environmental Quality, where she was confirmed
with strong bipartisan support because of her experience and
her skill. At the DEQ, Tracy was responsible for overseeing the
responsible development of our state's natural resources and
for enforcing the laws that protect Montana's clean air and
water. It is no surprise to me that she received letters of
support from a wide range of groups, including sportsmen and
oil and gas companies, that appreciate her work and appreciate
her attitude. Tracy has shown a lengthy commitment to making
things work. She is well versed in everything from oil and gas
permitting to outdoor recreation and land conservation, and she
understands the central role public lands play in our country.
Putting her in charge of the BLM will be putting a competent,
down-to-earth leader in place who knows that the best solutions
come from collaborations, not steamrolling. And in an era of
division, she is a person this body can get behind and work
with. I urge your support of her nomination.
I just want to close with this, with all due respect to the
Ranking Member. The points that you brought up, the talk about
appropriate use, did not describe the person that I just talked
about. This person listens. She works. She does the right
thing.
There was a bill that came up last year about putting a
gold mine on the border of Yellowstone National Park. I opposed
it. I think anybody with common sense would oppose it, at the
headwaters and the border of Yellowstone National Park. If that
is what we are talking about, then that is the kind of person
we need in the BLM. There are places we can mine. There are
places we can drill. There are places appropriate for resource
extraction. There are other places that are not. I think Tracy
Stone-Manning brings that understanding to the table, and she
is somebody that believes in multiple use, and appropriate use.
And I will tell you this, I would not be here today
introducing her if I thought she was the person that you
described, Senator Barrasso. This is a good person that has a
good heart, that understands the value of our public lands.
Thank you both, Mr. Chairman and Senator Barrasso.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Tester, and we very much
appreciate you coming this morning and taking time to introduce
your friend and a very accomplished person.
The rules of the Committee, which apply to all nominees,
require that they be sworn in in connection with their
testimony. So if you will please stand and raise your right
hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to
give to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
[Witnesses sworn in.]
The Chairman. You may be seated.
Before you all start your statements, I am going to ask
three questions addressed to each nominee before this
Committee.
First, will you be able to appear before this Committee and
other Congressional committees to represent departmental
positions and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
[Witnesses respond ``yes.'']
The Chairman. Are you aware of any personal holdings,
investments, or interests that could constitute a conflict of
interest, or create the appearance of such a conflict, should
you be confirmed and assume the office to which you have been
nominated by the President?
[Witnesses respond ``no.'']
The Chairman. Are you involved or do you have any assets
held in a blind trust?
[Witnesses respond, ``no.'']
The Chairman. Let us begin with you, Ms. Stone-Manning. You
are recognized to make your statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF TRACY STONE-MANNING, NOMINATED TO BE
DIRECTOR OF THE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT
Ms. Stone-Manning. Thank you. Good morning, Chairman
Manchin and Ranking Member Barrasso and members of the
Committee. I am honored to come before you today as President
Biden's nominee to be the Director of the Bureau of Land
Management. I thank the President for the nomination. I thank
this Committee for its consideration of it. I am grateful to my
state's senior Senator and former boss, Jon Tester, for that
kind introduction.
I am joined today by my husband of 30 years, Richard
Manning, and I am certain I would not be here without him. With
me also in spirit are my parents. My father, a submarine
commander, who is buried across the river in Arlington National
Cemetery and my mother, who raised five kids and died just last
summer. They instilled in me the core belief that service to
our nation and its people are our highest calling. That has
guided my every step and has me in this seat before you today.
Public service--serving in government--is serving the
people, and if done well, it's serving the future. My first
professional job was running a land trust in Missoula, Montana.
I sat around kitchen tables discussing very private family and
financial matters. That's where I learned that the land and
people are inextricably tied. I later directed an organization
working to clean up one of the country's largest Superfund
sites. We gathered people from all camps--Republicans and
Democrats, Rotarians, trade unionists, environmentalists--to
work for the removal of an ailing dam and the toxic sediments
behind it. Our success created thousands of jobs. We started to
understand the power and promise of a restoration economy. We
saw how restoring the landscape restores communities.
Senator Tester asked me to join his new Senate staff
shortly thereafter to bring people together around tough
issues. On day one, his Chief of Staff said to us, ``The
election is over. The Senator wants to be clear. We work for
all Montanans, not just the ones who voted for us.'' And so we
did, solving problems regardless of party, finding solutions
right for the land and the people who inhabit it. That's how we
forged partnerships with loggers. That's how we broke the
decades-old wilderness stalemate, by listening, by working
together.
I took that spirit with me when Governor Bullock asked me
to serve as the Director of the Department of Environmental
Quality, safeguarding our clean air and clean water. The job
required listening, gathering facts, and being decisive--not
jumping to conclusions. It required trusting career staffers
with decades of experience and getting them the tools they
needed to do their jobs. Then the Governor asked me to be his
Chief of Staff. Montana had about 11,000 employees, roughly the
same as the Bureau of Land Management. It was a fast-paced,
all-in job that required listening, calm, and the ability to
get facts and act on them. I loved it. Governor Bullock, like
my boss before him, was unequivocal about the need to work with
all parties to get things done. That bipartisan approach, for
example, is how we passed healthcare for 90,000 Montanans
through the legislature and how we passed a water compact for
the Confederated Salish and Kootenai tribes that this body
passed just last November with the leadership from Senator
Daines and Senator Tester.
All along, my professional life has been informed by a
private passion for hiking, backpacking, hunting, and floating.
The power I am granted by the mountains and rivers I love is
ineffable, but real. This rare privilege has left me fiercely
committed to ensuring that everyone and future generations
share the same opportunity. That is why I have spent the last
four years at the National Wildlife Federation advocating for
the balanced use of our public lands and Congressional
investment in them. I think every step of my career has
prepared me for this role. The Bureau of Land Management is
tasked with the daunting mission to sustain the health,
diversity, and productivity of our public lands. The Bureau
manages these lands for multiple uses and multiple values.
Their uses range from energy development to recreation, from
scientific and cultural resources to grazing and timber, and
from critical minerals to wildlife habitat.
There is a lot of work to do. President Biden has called on
the country to build the equitable, clean energy economy of
tomorrow. He has called on us to conserve and restore lands to
address the crises of biodiversity and climate change. He has
been clear about the need to engage everyone, not just the
privileged or special interests, to ensure nature is accessible
to all of us. The BLM manages roughly one in ten acres in the
country. It can and must help us rise to this historic moment.
If confirmed, I will listen and I will seek to work with anyone
willing to help tackle these problems, regardless of party.
That is how we find durable solutions, by working together.
I thank you for the time and look forward to the discussion
today.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Stone-Manning follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you so much.
Next, we are going to hear from Ms. Baker.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SHALANDA H. BAKER, NOMINATED TO BE
DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MINORITY ECONOMIC IMPACT, DEPARTMENT
OF ENERGY
Ms. Baker. Good morning. Let me begin. I am the daughter of
two Black Americans. My father, Charles Lee Baker, was an
extraordinary man. He grew up in Port Arthur, Texas, a low-
income, majority Black and Latinx community that forms part of
the heart of our nation's petrochemical, oil, and gas
industries. He and his brothers grew up in the Carver Terrace
Housing projects, separated from one of the largest oil
refineries in the world, the Texaco (now Motiva) oil refinery,
by a metal fence.
My father grew up in this community which, like so many
environmental justice communities around this great country,
routinely face exposure to many environmental hazards,
including exposure to air particulate matter, a contributor to
asthma and heart disease, and benzene, a known carcinogen. Like
his mother and his eldest brother, my father died way too young
of heart disease. Like his father and brothers and so many
Americans, he made a good living in the energy industry. I
stand before you in honor of his legacy and in recognition of
the complex ways in which the energy system shapes American
lives. If confirmed, I would be honored to help lead the
Administration's transformative Justice40 Initiative to ensure
that communities like my father's, as well as those whom we
have relied on for coal, oil, and gas production, have a future
in the new clean energy economy.
My mother, Constance Renea Grant, was and is extraordinary.
She raised me in a home that academics would call an energy-
insecure home. Like one in three American households, 52.2
percent of Black American households, and 61.5 percent of
Native American households, we used the oven to warm our
apartment in Austin, Texas, where I grew up. On nights when we
could see our breath, we layered on blankets and clothing to
keep safe from the cold, and to try to get a good night's
sleep. In the summers, my sister and I spent days on end in the
public library to keep cool. Our struggle with energy
insecurity was exacerbated by our energy burden--the amount of
my mother's overall household income we used to pay for energy.
My mother served this country as a civil servant, both for the
State of Texas and the Federal Government. Her government
salary disqualified her from meaningful public access to public
assistance, but it was too little to secure our home. Our
household, like so many American households, was invisible to
policymakers. We fell through the cracks.
It was my mother's service to our country that inspired me
to serve. In 1994, I joined about 1,200 other first-year cadets
for boot camp at the United States Air Force Academy. Around
200 of us were women, ten of those women were Black. I
graduated as a commissioned officer in 1998. At the Academy,
our core values were ``Integrity First, Service Before Self,
and Excellence in All We Do.'' In 2000, with these three core
values engrained in my spirit, and my military career ahead of
me, I made the difficult decision to come out as a lesbian. I
had joined the military and served during the height of the
``Don't Ask, Don't Tell'' policy. This policy put LGBTQ
servicemembers at risk, and in my own life, it meant that an
abusive partner wielded a power over me that jeopardized my
oath.
I left the military deeply committed to continued service
on behalf of communities that lacked a voice and lacked power.
I became a corporate and project finance lawyer in Boston and
later in Japan, and eventually an academic committed to
exploring and exposing the injustices in our energy system. I
have spent the past decade studying this energy transition, and
my research has shown me that energy justice requires that we
rethink and redesign the entirety of our energy system. Energy
justice also requires that we recognize the tremendous
sacrifices that communities like my father's have paid to
ensure that the nation has access to reliable power.
If I am fortunate enough to be confirmed as the Director of
the Office of Minority Economic Impact, I will work to advance
three objectives. First, I will tackle the energy burden that
plagues households and communities in this country. Second, I
will bring clean technology parity to underserved communities
that have currently been left behind in the energy transition.
Third, I will pair public sector and private sector expertise
to expand access to capital, create new businesses and jobs,
and build wealth in communities that have persistently been
underserved by federal programs. I will use my lived
experiences, coupled with the academic rigor and
entrepreneurial streak I have honed over the past decade to hit
the ground running during one of the most challenging periods
in our nation's history.
Thank you. I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Baker follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Baker.
And next we are going to have Mr. Walsh.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SAMUEL T. WALSH, NOMINATED TO BE GENERAL
COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY
Mr. Walsh. Thank you. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member
Barrasso, distinguished members of the Committee, thank you
very much for the opportunity to appear before you today. It is
a great honor to be here.
Let me begin by expressing my sincere appreciation to
President Biden for asking me to serve as General Counsel of
the United States Department of Energy. If confirmed, I would
work hard to justify the confidence he has placed in me to
serve in that role. I also want to thank Secretary Granholm for
her confidence in asking me to serve as her counsel. I would be
privileged to advise the Secretary and her team as they work to
advance the Department's vital mission. Finally, I would like
to thank my wife, Elisabeth, who has joined us here today, my
children, June and Miles, and my family and friends, both near
and far, for their love and support.
Mr. Chairman, as you know, the General Counsel is the
principal legal officer of the Department. The General Counsel
provides legal advice to the Secretary and her team, represents
the Department before other federal agencies, and works with
the Department of Justice to represent the Department in the
federal courts. Put simply, the General Counsel is responsible
for ensuring that the Department follows the law. Thankfully,
the General Counsel does not do this alone. The Department has
a dedicated and knowledgeable staff of attorneys. I had the
great pleasure of working alongside this group for over six
years. If confirmed, I would look forward to working with them
again, learning from them again, and once again drawing on
their deep expertise in the service of the Department.
I have spent my career in the field of energy law. After
graduating from Harvard Law School, I had the privilege to
serve as a law clerk for Judge David Tatel, on the United
States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. I
then worked in the energy group of a law firm called Hogan &
Hartson, which later became Hogan Lovells. In 2010, I joined
the Department of Energy as an advisor to the General Counsel.
I stayed at the Department through 2016, and during that time
was promoted first to Associate General Counsel and then to
Deputy General Counsel for Energy Policy in 2014. As Deputy
General Counsel for Energy Policy, I had the responsibility for
legal issues arising from the Department's electricity, fossil
energy, and civilian nuclear programs. Since 2017, I have been
a partner at Harris, Wiltshire & Grannis, here in Washington,
DC. At the firm, I have built a practice advising clients on
energy regulatory issues and representing them before federal
and state agencies and in the federal courts.
Mr. Chairman, I have learned from my experience at the
Department how important it is to have open lines of
communication with Congress. If confirmed, I will make myself
available to the members of this Committee, your staffs, and
your colleagues throughout Congress. I hope that, if confirmed,
you will find me to be a responsive and collegial partner and
one that is straightforward in my interpretation of the
Department's legal authorities.
Mr. Chairman, thank you and the Committee once again for
the opportunity to appear before you. I look forward to
answering any questions you may have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Walsh follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Walsh.
Now we will have Dr. Light.
OPENING STATEMENT OF DR. ANDREW E. LIGHT, NOMINATED TO BE AN
ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF ENERGY (INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS)
Dr. Light. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso, and
distinguished members of the Committee, I am truly honored to
be part of this hearing and to be nominated. I want to first
thank my wife, Juliet, without whom I would not be here today
and my son, Milos, who is here with us and Marika, my daughter,
who is watching at home, surely the two best people that I
know.
The most important thing you need to know about me for this
position is that I am the grandson of two West Virginia coal
miners, Jack Light and Carmine Pellegrino. They both spent
their lives doing grueling, dangerous work and for far too
little compensation. Carmine was paid by the ton of coal he
moved by hand in a day, setting a local record that some in
Bridgeport, West Virginia, still remember. Both of my
grandfathers died when I was young, but my memories of them
remain clear, and they fill me with pride. My grandparents put
all they had into building prosperity and security for their
country, their communities, and their families. I didn't grow
up in West Virginia. Years before I was born, my dad moved
south with my mother to Georgia. I grew up in rural towns. I
developed an abiding love of the natural world that has shaped
my adult life. But we went back to West Virginia twice a year
to see family, and the changes I saw in both of these states,
both good and bad, drive my desire to see every community
flourish.
With my time today, I want to focus on three goals deriving
from my history that I will bring to the role of Assistant
Secretary of Energy for International Affairs, if confirmed,
that I believe will improve the lives of all Americans: seizing
the opportunity to create good-paying jobs, securing
partnerships that will make Americans safer, and winning the
technologies of the future.
First, seizing the job opportunity. Like President Biden
and Secretary Granholm, I believe that climate action is simply
job creation. The clean energy transition in the United States
will produce millions of good-paying jobs, but this job-
creating market opportunity is even greater outside of the
United States. Think about it. The biggest growth in
population, energy access, and creation of new infrastructure
will happen where the rest of the world's billions of people
live. For example, the climate commitments of just the top 21
developing countries under the 2015 Paris Agreement have opened
up an estimated $23 trillion investment opportunity through to
2030. And that is just for 21 countries out of over 190 that
made commitments under Paris. If we go after this market, the
economic opportunity for American workers and companies is
simply staggering. If I am confirmed to this body, I will
pursue this opportunity every single day. The lion's share of
bilateral and multilateral cooperation and engagement by the
U.S. can create millions more good-paying jobs that will
benefit the entire country.
Second, securing partnerships. The global opportunities for
job creation embedded in goals like achieving net-zero
emissions by 2050, which President Biden has committed us to,
will not just come to us, we have to go to them. If we don't,
then other countries will take those opportunities, and they
already are. But we have achieved some notable wins. We have
also stood by while competitors, especially China, have created
massive international energy development programs in other
countries. If fully realized, China's Belt and Road initiative
will dwarf the Marshall Plan. And Belt and Road does not just
build energy infrastructure around the world, it builds spheres
of influence. Abandoning critical partnerships with the rest of
the world not only leaves us out of job creation opportunities
but also makes us less safe and less secure.
Finally, winning the technologies of the future. Estimates
are that about half of the energy technologies we need to
achieve net-zero emissions by mid-century either are not
commercially viable or not available today. Nonetheless, all G7
countries are now committed to this goal, along with an
increasing number of developing economies. Sectors where it is
harder to reduce emissions, like steel, cement, and chemicals,
will need carbon capture, hydrogen, and other innovations.
While the Department of Energy has produced some of the most
important clean energy deployment and development initiatives
in the world, like the Clean Energy Ministerial and Mission
Innovation, we also need to forge targeted partnerships with
countries that share our principles on respect for workers,
market values, environmental protection, and scientific
integrity. We have to compete to become the biggest innovator
and manufacturer in hydrogen, carbon capture, and other
technologies that will create more jobs while meeting the
climate challenge.
Now, some have asked me over the years if it's odd that a
grandson of two coal miners is as committed to a clean energy
transformation as I am, but I don't have any doubt that my
grandparents would approve. Like them, I only want to build
prosperity and security for our country, our communities, and
our families. Jack Light and Carmine Pellegrino would surely
understand that, and then they would tell me to get to work.
I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Light follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Dr. Light.
I will now start our questions, and I will start with you,
Dr. Light. I believe that we have in the Department of Energy,
the national laboratories, and ARPA-E, as you are pretty much
aware of, the brain power needed for us to lead the world in
technology innovation, to create new jobs in the country, to
supply world markets, and reduce carbon. I often say that we
cannot eliminate our way to a clean environment--the global
clean environment. We have to innovate our way. I know in your
statement you just made, you previously served as Senior
Advisor and India Counselor to the U.S. Special Envoy on
Climate Change. How can we get India, China, Russia, and
indeed, much of the world, to do their fair share in reducing
carbon emissions? Not by trying to force them to eliminate what
they are going to use in their backyard, but how can we get
them to start using it, with technologies that we do through
innovation?
Dr. Light. Thank you, Senator, for the question.
I think the first thing we needed to do, and President
Biden has done it, is rejoin the Paris Agreement on climate
change. It doesn't force----
The Chairman. There are no teeth to it.
Dr. Light. What's that?
The Chairman. There are no teeth to it.
Dr. Light. There are no teeth to it with the respect that
it doesn't force any country to do anything.
The Chairman. Right.
Dr. Light. But the commitments that have been made by China
and India and other big emitters, internationally, which now
have some oversight and transparency so that we can see whether
they're doing what they're doing, would not exist without the
Paris Agreement.
The Chairman. Got it.
Dr. Light. And that is the forcing agreement that we're
going to use to rachet to put more pressure on them to do more.
India is doing a lot. India has the biggest sectoral energy
targets in the world, 450 gigawatts by 2030 is what Prime
Minister Modi has committed to. We have created a new
overarching umbrella agreement with India where I think we can
actually build things like a hydrogen or CCUS-driven steel--
indigenous steel production capacity, which the United States
can then sell to. And that's how we're going to do this. We're
going to show that we can work with these countries together.
China may be harder, but I think that we will get there
eventually with them, and they will see that as the United
States is back at the table, they're going to have to step up.
They no longer can claim some mantle with other, you know, big
players out of the question. And so, and we are actually are
seeing this now. To date, about 72 countries responsible for
about 35 percent of global emissions have stepped up and said
that they are going to put new commitments, new bigger
commitments under the Paris Agreement, and another 80,
responsible for 40 percent of global emissions, are already
there. So already we are seeing the impact of the United States
being back at the table pulling countries back into it to do
more, and we have to do that.
The Chairman. Well, being a grandson of two former coal
miners from West Virginia, we know you understand the common
sense that it is going to take an ``all-in'' energy policy for
us to go further ahead.
I would ask Ms. Tracy Stone-Manning--the importance of the
BLM is just enormous, as has been spoken about. And I am
learning more and more about it every day. But with that, I
would ask you, do you believe the United States of America
should be energy independent?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, yes, I do.
The Chairman. Okay.
Do you agree with Secretary Haaland that fossil fuels must
continue to play a major role in America's energy grid for
years?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, yes, both she and the President
have said as much.
The Chairman. Okay.
And do you believe we could strike the right balance
between environmental protection and responsible energy
development so that we can maintain our energy advantage?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I think we can and must.
The Chairman. Okay.
What are your plans with BLM? Right now, we have an awful
lot of people, myself included, very much concerned about the
emissions of methane from drilling. Do you have any thoughts
about that, of how we could curb that? And I will give you a
little tidbit into what I have found out, that most of the
problem arises because we cannot get permits for pipelines to
take the methane off of government lands. So you are damned if
you do, and you are damned if you don't. Do you have any
thoughts on that?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Yes, Senator, thanks for the question. I
think everybody can agree that burning money is a really bad
idea, and if I have the honor of being confirmed, I will work
with you and anybody willing to work on figuring out how to
capture that methane and make good use of it.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Ms. Baker, the President set a goal of directing 40 percent
of the benefits of federal investments in clean energy,
training, workforce development, environmental cleanup, and
clean water infrastructure to disadvantaged communities. What
is your understanding of the meaning of the term disadvantaged
community as used in the Justice40 Initiative, and does it
extend to the coal mining communities in my State of West
Virginia and many other states that bore the brunt of building
and powering this nation and now risk being left behind?
Ms. Baker. Thank you so much for your question, Senator.
The Justice40 Initiative is absolutely the cornerstone of this
Administration's climate transition policy. As you mentioned,
the President has made this commitment to ensure that 40
percent of the overall benefits of certain investments go to
disadvantaged communities. In the same Executive Order
announcing the Justice40 Initiative, the President makes a deep
commitment to energy communities, which are communities that
are experiencing the transition away from fossil fuels. And in
fact, he has ensured or he has said that both energy
communities and disadvantaged communities will be at the front
of his economic policy with respect to climate.
If confirmed, I would be delighted to work both with energy
communities, as well as disadvantaged communities, to ensure
that we have clean energy solutions in those communities, that
we bring economic development into those communities, and we
also bring opportunities for wealth creation in those
communities. And the President has made it clear that he is
deeply committed to both energy communities and disadvantaged
communities.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso.
Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Stone-Manning, there is an Energy & Environment news
article from January 2020, so, a year and a half ago. This is
what they reported: ``When Montana Senator Steve Daines began
pressing his colleagues,''--all of us--``to support fully
funding a popular conservation program, he might have
anticipated a bit of praise for his bipartisanship. Instead,
the Montana Conservation Voters,'' they say, ``have spent
months spewing criticism at the first-term Senator via digital
ads, yard signs, a website--and, in their latest effort with
sardonic vodka.''
Now, the article then goes on to describe Senator Daines'
efforts in 2019 to persuade all of us in the Senate to provide
full, mandatory funding for the Land and Water Conservation
Fund. Working with other Senate colleagues, Senator Daines
secured $495 million, the largest appropriation for the Fund in
more than 15 years. So environmental groups across the board
praised the funding. Montana Trout Unlimited called Senator
Daines a champion for permanent full funding. Apparently, this
is not good enough for the Montana Conservation Voters, which
the E&E article noted is, ``staffed with individuals who work
in Democratic Congressional or state offices and on
campaigns.''
Well, Ms. Stone-Manning, you were a member of the Board of
Directors and actually, the Treasurer of the Montana
Conservation Voters. This is the group that participated in
this political hit job against Senator Daines, and you were the
Treasurer for the funding of those ads and the attacks. So on
behalf of all the Republican Senators, we wonder how members of
this Committee can have any confidence that you are going to
work with us in any kind of fair or bipartisan way?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thank you for the question, and
to this Committee and to the body, thank you so much for
passing full and permanent funding of the Land and Water
Conservation Fund.
My role at the National Wildlife Federation, running our
public lands program, I think was a very bipartisan approach in
that really bipartisan success. And I think my track record, my
professional track record across the last 30 years has a very
western sensibility to it, which, you know better than most, in
the West, if you want to get something done, you have to work
together.
Senator Barrasso. But in terms of your role specifically
with the Montana Conservation Voters and your role as being on
the Board and the Treasurer, do you still believe today all the
things that your group said about Senator Daines over the past
year and a half?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I have led non-profit
organizations, and I have been on the board of non-profit
organizations, and I take very seriously the difference in
those two roles. I was a voluntary member, board member, who
had a core belief of never micromanaging staff, and I hope that
you would look to my record in my day job of that issue and my
approach to it.
Senator Barrasso. In 2020, you were the Senior Advisor of
Public Lands for the National Wildlife Federation, you talked
about that and you urged the Forest Service to abandon plans to
expand oil and gas development in our national forests. You
said at the time that the proposed rule would create ``deadline
loopholes for oil and gas companies so they can avoid
compliance with environmental regulations.'' Well, I disagree.
I think oil and gas production on federal lands, certainly I
see it in Wyoming, is subjected to some of the most stringent
regulations in the world. There is currently no end in sight
for President Biden's federal ban on new oil and gas leasing on
federal lands, which is likely going to lead to America
importing their resources, including from foreign nations, and
where in foreign nations their efforts there producing this
energy much lacks the environmental standards that we have
here.
Are you concerned that oil and gas production is going then
migrate from federal lands in our country to other areas,
making us more dependent on foreign countries, including the
ones with very few environmental standards?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thanks for the question.
I think that the President and Secretary have been clear
that this leasing pause is giving the Department time to take a
hard look at the oil and gas program and make sure that it's
right for the century that we are living in and if I have the
honor of being confirmed, I look forward to digging in and
helping with those discussions.
Senator Barrasso. Ms. Baker, the application of hydraulic
fracturing, horizontal drilling, and advanced seismic imaging
has led to much greater production in this country in natural
gas. This has led to lower gas and electricity prices for
consumers, especially those of low incomes to the point that in
2019, the White House Council of Economic Advisers found that,
``by lowering energy prices, the shale revolution is saving
U.S. consumers $203 billion annually, an average of about
$2,500 for a family of four.'' They went on to say, ``In other
words, low energy prices are like a progressive tax cut that
helps the poorest households the most.''
Do you agree with that assessment, that the shale
revolution has actually been an economic benefit to many low-
income households?
Ms. Baker. Thank you so much for the question, Senator
Barrasso.
I agree wholeheartedly that lowering energy costs for the
lowest-income Americans is a good thing.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Now we have Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Chairman, I am quite pleased this morning
to support the nomination of Tracy Stone-Manning, and I hope
that this Committee will advance her nomination quickly. I,
frankly, cannot say how refreshing it is to have a BLM nominee
who actually has experience in tribal issues, in land
conservation, in water settlements, in wildlife conservation,
in all of the things that we wrestle with in western states
each and every day. Westerners know that the only way to solve
natural resource challenges is to work with people from all
walks of life, and Tracy has done that throughout her career.
She has worked with ranchers and wilderness advocates, with
hunters and mountain bikers and trade unionists and tribal
leaders, and she knows how to work across the aisle to find
creative solutions. The BLM has been without a confirmed
director--for good reason, in some cases--for almost four and a
half years. That should not continue one day longer. I hope we
can confirm Tracy Stone-Manning for BLM Director very soon so
that she can get to work. And with that, I have a couple of
questions for you, Ms. Stone-Manning.
New Mexico has two relatively new national monuments--BLM
monuments--the Rio Grande del Norte and the Oregon Mountains-
Desert Peaks, established in 2013 and 2015. However, neither
monument has ever had a monument management plan to guide on-
the-ground management. A planning process would allow local
residents, tribal leaders, all sorts of public land users in
those areas, and business owners to weigh-in on how those areas
should best be managed to protect the resources and the
activities that occur there. If confirmed, will you make sure
that the BLM works with the communities around these monuments
to finally complete those plans?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, yes, I will. I agree
wholeheartedly that the very best approach is to bring all the
stakeholders together to come up with the best plan.
Senator Heinrich. The BLM--last week, in fact--began the
process to finalize the route for the SunZia Transmission
project, which is a project that is critical to fully
developing New Mexico's carbon-free energy resources. Without
this line, wind and solar energy generated in New Mexico,
particularly wind, has no way to be moved to larger energy
markets to the West. The two lines will carry over three
gigawatts of carbon-free electricity and create more than 6,000
construction jobs. I am incredibly pleased to see SunZia moving
to this next part in the process, and I would just ask, if
confirmed, will you commit to working with me to ensure that
this process stays on track and meets its schedule?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I would be honored to do so.
Senator Heinrich. Ms. Baker, according to a 2018 study by
the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, tribal lands actually
have the capacity to provide about ten percent of the nation's
total energy, including almost seven percent of our renewable
energy capacity. Despite existing DOE programs, we have seen
very little private capital flow to tribal renewable energy
projects. And to date, the Tribal Energy Loan Guarantee
Program, for example, has not made a single loan, and the
Tribal Energy Resource Agreements from the Energy Policy Act of
2005 have yet to be implemented. If confirmed, would you commit
to working to address the challenges that are contributing to
the underinvestment of private capital in renewable energy
projects that directly benefit sovereign tribes?
Ms. Baker. Thank you so much for the question, Senator
Heinrich. I spent several years serving as a project finance
lawyer and really learned the importance of access to capital
across so many different landscapes. I have also worked closely
with indigenous communities as a scholar, first in Mexico and
later in Hawaii, and I know that these communities face a
persistent lack of investment. If confirmed, I would work hard
and closely with Wahleah Johns, who is currently the Director
of the Office of Indian Energy, as well as Jigar Shah, who is
the Director of the Loan Programs Office to really look into
the barriers that indigenous communities currently face in
accessing DOE and federal funds as well as private investment
opportunities. I would also be delighted to work with your
office to look at solutions to this persistent problem.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Ms. Baker, and I would
encourage you to call on us for help when there are needs to
change authorizations, to change legal language, so that we can
finally accomplish some of the goals that we have set for a
number of years now. Please count us in because there is a
dramatic underinvestment in these communities. Thank you.
Ms. Baker. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Now we have Senator Lee. Right here.
Senator Lee.
Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Stone-Manning, let's start with you if that's all
right. Some would argue that overemphasis on the minimization
criteria for off-road vehicle trail designation frequently
leads to what might be characterized as sort of a dismissal of
the BLM's Federal Land Policy and Management Act multiple-use
mandate. If confirmed, how would you work to seek to preserve
the rights of off-road vehicle users and prevent these
minimization criteria from becoming, in effect, elimination
criteria?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thanks for the question.
Back when I worked for Senator Tester and we polled
stakeholders from all walks of life--people who normally
wouldn't be in the room together, much less at the table
together--we did really good work with the motorized community,
with mountain bikers, with hikers, with hunters, with timber
representatives, looking at maps and understanding that the
landscape was big enough for everyone and just making very hard
and smart decisions about how to share the land appropriately.
I would take that approach to this work, and I would ensure
that both science and law and input from stakeholders was
driving the outcome.
Senator Lee. Thank you.
All right, let's talk about wild horses for a minute. Since
1988, we have had appropriations bills that have been passed by
Congress that have included provisions prohibiting the culling
of old, sick, or lame horses, and during this same time period,
over the last 32, 33 years, wild horse and burro populations
have skyrocketed. Fiscal Year 2020 funding for the program was
about five times the amount of Fiscal Year 2000, but in 2019,
67 percent of the budget was used to hold these animals off
range. Do you think that this prohibition is inhibiting the
BLM's ability to fulfill its management duties, and if not, how
would you plan on getting our herd management areas to an
appropriate management level?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I appreciate the question. This
has been a longstanding, difficult problem with herd sizes
doubling every four years. So obviously, we need to work
together and perhaps find some creative solutions, perhaps find
some solutions with the help of Congress. It is clear to me
that we need to ensure that humane treatment drives these
decisions, and I think what I would bring most to the work is
the understanding that we are managing for the landscape. We
are managing for the health of the landscape and have that sort
of core principle drive the work.
Senator Lee. And you would agree that in many cases, wild
horses and burros are, you know, that they are non-native
species and in some cases, overpopulation has resulted in
environmental degradation. Would you agree with that?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Yes, Senator, as I was saying, it is a
long-standing problem. We have a law from Congress that is
saying horses have a place on the landscape, but of course, we
have a bunch of other multiple needs for the landscape as well,
and when populations are bigger than our management objectives,
we need to work together to do something about it.
Senator Lee. You have been very vocal in your support for
permanently funding the Land and Water Conservation Fund, which
is, of course, used for the acquisition of new federal lands.
There was, during the previous Administration, an order issued
that would have required the written expression of support from
governors and local governments before land in those areas was
acquired under the LWCF. But earlier this year, the Biden
Administration revoked that order. Do you think it was
necessary or at least good practice to gain local support
before acquiring additional federal land, and would you prevent
acquisition of new land under the LWCF if that acquisition was
opposed by local government officials?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Again, I need to thank this Committee
for this incredible, beautiful, American conservation program
that touches every county. If we all close our eyes and think
about the park we went to as a kid, it's pretty likely that it
was funded by LWCF. When Congress reauthorized the program
permanently, it had that debate, and my job will be to
implement the law as it was passed.
Senator Lee. Okay, so you do not have a position on whether
it is a good idea to acquire land in those cases, in those
areas where the local government opposes it?
Ms. Stone-Manning. I think stakeholder input is always
important, Senator.
Senator Lee. Good. Stakeholder input, of course, is
different than acquiring against the opposition of a local
government. Those are two different things.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I see my time is expired.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Now we have Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I ask the following two questions of all nominees who
appear before any of the committees on which I sit. So you can
respond en masse--individually, but together.
First question: since you became a legal adult have any of
you ever made unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed
any verbal or physical harassment or assault of a sexual
nature?
[All witnesses respond ``no.'']
Senator Hirono. Have any of you ever faced discipline or
entered into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
[All witnesses respond ``no.'']
Senator Hirono. Thank you.
Ms. Baker, the Department of Energy's Office of Minority
Economic Impact has many responsibilities, including to promote
historically underserved communities and small, disadvantaged
businesses, i.e., minority-owned businesses, which have been
disproportionately impacted by COVID-19, and many times this
means making sure small, disadvantaged businesses have access
to federal contracting opportunities through the DOE. President
Biden has been working to expand opportunities for those
businesses and recently proposed providing them with an
additional $100 billion in contracting opportunities over the
next five years. What do you see as the largest obstacle to
expanding opportunities for historically underserved
communities and small, disadvantaged businesses?
Ms. Baker. Thank you for the question, Senator Hirono. It
is great to see you again and I enjoyed----
Senator Hirono. Aloha.
Ms. Baker. Aloha. I enjoyed my time in Hawaii.
So for the last several months, I have served as the
Secretary's Advisor on Equity, and I have had the pleasure of
leading the execution of Executive Order 13985, which you may
know is the President's order on equity. And in that order, the
President requires every single federal agency to examine and
explore any barriers to accessing procurement and contracting
opportunities. We are right in the middle of evaluating the
barriers to accessing procurement opportunities and contracting
opportunities, and I look forward to reviewing our Committee's
analysis of those barriers. I do see access to finance, access
to resources, as one of the key parts of really creating wealth
in communities of color. And if confirmed as the Director of
the Office of Minority Economic Impact, I would work closely
with the Committee that is leading this work as well as
entrepreneurs out on the field and other agencies who have
access to resources, to bring those resources into communities
of color. So, really excited to do that work, if confirmed.
Senator Hirono. It makes sense to figure out what the
barriers are, but part of, I would think, the function of your
office would be outreach, because I have worked with a lot of
small businesses and minority-owned businesses myself. A large
part of it is--one, they do not even know that the
opportunities exist, and if they do exist, just going through
the process can be very daunting. So outreach on those kinds of
opportunities really has to be looked at, and the initiative
must be taken to reach out to these communities. And it sounds
as though you have experience in doing that.
Ms. Baker. Yes, Senator, I do have extensive experience
with stakeholder engagement, and I am lucky enough to be
nominated to serve in a role in an office that has deep roots
in communities of color around this country and a proven track
record of working with minority businesses. Of course, we need
to do more, and of course, there is a tremendous opportunity in
this clean energy transition to ensure that businesses that are
led by women and led by people of color have a seat in this
transition.
Senator Hirono. The DOE's own U.S. Energy and Employment
Report noted that ethnic and racial minorities make up a lower-
than-average portion of the energy workforce. We are now
talking about the workforce--the people who are actually doing
the things in this area. What are the major factors for why
this is the case? Is it lack of educational opportunities?
What? Why is it that there is such a significantly lower number
of ethnic and racial minorities working in these areas?
Ms. Baker. Well, Senator, I think you have highlighted a
key issue that, if confirmed, I would be delighted to look into
further. The Office of Jobs is now led by a wonderful person,
Jennifer Kropke, who comes out of the labor movement and has a
deep commitment to actually increasing the number of jobs that
people of color have access to in this clean energy transition.
If confirmed, I would work closely with Jennifer to ensure that
the opportunities that this transition will present--and we
know that there will be millions of jobs created--are equitably
distributed.
And so, if confirmed, I would look forward to digging into
the problems and helping to develop the solutions.
Senator Hirono. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Lankford.
Senator Lankford. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
Witnesses, thank you for your testimony today and getting a
chance to be able to go through all this. It is not a fun
process to walk through this. So I appreciate you actually
stepping up to be able to do it.
Ms. Stone-Manning, let me ask you a broad philosophical
question you have gone through before. Fill in the blank--
Public lands are for what?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Public lands are a beautiful, American,
unique idea that are for many purposes.
Senator Lankford. So give me some examples of some of those
purposes, from your perspective and legally, as well, I guess.
Ms. Stone-Manning. Our public lands develop energy. They
provide places for people like me to hunt. They provide places
for ranchers to graze. They provide places for people to take
their families, backpacking, and car camping. It's a full suite
of things that our public lands provide.
Senator Lankford. So I have found in public lands, almost
always what you love to do on public lands, you wish that was
the only thing happening on public lands and everyone else
should go away. So for the folks that love to do four-wheeling,
they love to go four-wheeling on public lands and everyone else
is in the way, and for everyone else that wants peace and
quiet, they want the four-wheelers to go away. And it is the
same with energy development.
So my question is, you are going to be driven a lot to be
able to balance out all those different priorities. How do you
set those priorities because there will be many times that
people are going to say ``this part of our public lands is
really good for oil and gas'' or ``really good for renewables
development'' or ``it needs a transmission line to be able to
move wind power in across it.'' And other folks are going to
say ``no, I do not want that here. I want that somewhere
else,'' but that's actually the right spot, especially for
energy mineral development, infrastructure development. How are
you going to balance that?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Thank you for the question, Senator. I
think that's at the heart of what makes me ready to do this
job. I have spent a career of balancing the needs of various
communities and stakeholders, and I would do that and then some
in this position. I would have law and science and community
input drive decision-making. It is 245 million acres. There is
a lot of room out there for all of us. We just need to be super
smart about how we engage with the landscape.
Senator Lankford. You once made the comment that there is
plenty of room in the West for oil and gas development. Is that
true?
Ms. Stone-Manning. There is plenty of room in the West for
oil and gas development.
Senator Lankford. The next big question is always going to
be how long it takes to get a permit, how long it takes to get
through the process, which is perpetually a challenge because
it can be ``yes, we can do it, but it is going to take us five
years to get there,'' and it becomes its own unique challenge
to do that. You cannot answer that today. I would just tell
you, that will be important to this Committee as well because
it is one thing to say it is available. It is another thing to
say it is really not available because it is going to take a
really long time to get to it and the capital will not flow to
places that it takes a really long time to actually use the
lands and the taxpayers lose out--the country loses out in that
long term.
I need to switch over. Mr. Walsh, I apologize, I am running
close on time on this. You have a very difficult task long-
term. You are going to protect the taxpayers from a lot of
unneeded litigation because you have a responsibility to be
able to step up and to tell folks that say ``I really want to
do something--yes or no--does the law allow that or not?'' So
my very straightforward question for you is, approaching a task
as a counsel, every single administration, regardless of who is
in office, every single administration is going to come to the
counsel at some point and say ``I really want to do this. Find
me a way to do it.'' And the counsel has the responsibility to
say ``you can do that, if Congress passes a new law,'' instead
of saying ``yes, here's a little unique way--novel--that no
one's ever tried before that will end up in ten years of
litigation and millions of dollars in taxpayer funds.''
What are your thoughts on that? What is your role as
Counsel?
Mr. Walsh. Well, thank you for the question, Senator.
It is a good question, one that every government lawyer
faces, as you are certainly aware. But the bottom line is that
the role of General Counsel is to provide frank, candid, legal
advice, and when the answer to a legal question is ``no,'' the
answer is ``no.'' The Secretary and other senior leaders in the
Department will not be served by legal advice that takes the
Department's programs and puts them into protracted litigation.
Senator Lankford. I would agree.
Dr. Light, we are going to count on you to deal with LNG
exports and multiple things. Our global power is extended based
on some of our resources. What are your thoughts on the export
of LNG?
Dr. Light. Thank you, Senator.
So my thoughts on it are that U.S. LNG exports are at an
all-time high. In March, we exported 10.2 billion cubic meters
of LNG, which was a record. It looks like 2021 will increase by
50 percent over 2020. And so they are very high. My job in this
role is to make sure that U.S. gas is competitive around the
world. More and more countries are looking for cleaner sources
of gas. They are going to go around the world and do that.
Russia has the dirtiest source of gas right now. We have to
make sure that ours is cleaner and that ours fills those
markets around the world, and that is what I intend to do.
Senator Lankford. That would be helpful. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Congratulations to all the
nominees. Welcome to family and friends.
Mr. Walsh, let me start with you, following up with my
friend and colleague Mr. Lankford's questions on your position
as General Counsel. Can you share your general position on
whether Yucca Mountain in Nevada should be a federal repository
for the nation's nuclear waste?
Mr. Walsh. Thank you for the question, Senator, and I
certainly understand the importance of this question to you and
your constituents in Nevada.
President Biden and Secretary Granholm have both stated
very clearly that they regard the Yucca Mountain site to be
unworkable. Secretary Granholm has advocated for an approach
based on
consent-based siting, along the lines of the recommendations
provided by the Blue Ribbon Commission. I am also aware that
Congress has recently appropriated funds for the Department to
begin to pursue consolidated interim storage through a consent-
based siting process. And so, if confirmed, I would look
forward to providing legal support to that effort and to
working with your office.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, and I appreciate your
comments because the entire delegation, at least on the Senate
side, has supported the Nuclear Waste Informed Consent Act that
we introduced, and I think it is so important that we listen to
the states and local governments and tribal communities within
a state when the Federal Government is looking to take action.
That is why I invite my colleagues, including Senator Lee, to
join the Nuclear Waste Informed Consent Act, because it does
give local governments and our states and tribal communities a
say in any action that Federal Government may want to take.
Let me move on, Mr. Walsh. In 2018, the State of Nevada
learned that the Trump Administration had secretly shipped
plutonium intended for weapons production to Nevada to be
stored indefinitely at the Nevada National Security Site
(NNSS). I was able to reach an agreement with the Department of
Energy, which the state used to secure a settlement with the
Department last year to begin removing the plutonium this year.
Can you commit to upholding this agreement and taking the
necessary legal actions to ensure that the DOE and National
Nuclear Security Administration remove the plutonium from the
NNSS?
Mr. Walsh. Thank you for the question, Senator. I am aware
of the plutonium transfer to the NNSS that you are referring
to, and I certainly understand the importance of the issue to
you and to the state, and if confirmed, yes, I would do
everything in my power to ensure that the Department fulfills
its obligations under the agreement.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I appreciate your answer.
Ms. Stone-Manning, thank you for having a conversation with
me. Like my colleagues, the relationship of the Federal
Government and the State of Nevada is so important. Eighty-five
percent of the land in Nevada is owned by the Federal
Government, and 60 percent of that is BLM. And so I appreciate
your comments on the necessary opportunities for collaboration
and how important it is to managing our public lands. So let me
start there, because the Las Vegas Valley and Clark County is
home to nearly two million people and growing. The valley is
essentially landlocked by the Interior Department-managed
lands, and the BLM manages hundreds of small parcels throughout
the entire metropolitan area. In order for some city management
actions to occur, it often requires collaboration with federal
land managers.
In order to ensure that local land management needs are
being met and to support our local governments in facilitating
a growing population and economic diversification efforts, the
Interior Department is a focused and a present partner, and it
is so essential, and it requires you to work with us to
prioritize permitting and realty applications. It requires
greater alignment between the BLM and state and local
governments on renewable energy and transmission siting. It
also requires the distribution of funds from the Southern
Nevada Public Land Management Act special account for regional
conservation and environmental enhancement projects, among
other priorities.
So my question to you is, can I have your commitment that
you will prioritize efficient land management and greater
collaboration in Southern Nevada?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, you do have my commitment. I
would be happy to work with you and locals on the ground to
make sure that government is serving the people. That is our
job.
Senator Cortez Masto. And then, let me talk about--and I
only have a few seconds left here--but one of the areas that is
important for Nevada that we are dealing with, and we are
seeing it all across the West, are these wildfires. We have a
lot of rangeland fires, and we have worked very hard over the
last couple of years to really focus on wildfire prevention,
suppression, and restoration. Would you commit to working with
us to address greater amounts of prevention, suppression, and
restoration work and resources to the rangeland and wildland
urban interface areas?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, yes. As a Westerner, I, along
with millions of other people, have breathed that smoke, and if
I have the honor of being confirmed, I am really excited to
full-on attack the invasive grass problem in the Great Basin,
which is a carrier of those fires, and to work with local
entities to make sure that communities are as safe as they can
be.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso. Senator Cassidy.
Senator Cassidy. Hey, Dr. Light. Thank you all, by the way,
for your willingness to serve. I appreciate it.
Dr. Light, you, in your testimony, speak about the clean
energy transition bringing lots of jobs, and you also speak
positively about U.S. natural gas. Now, as we know, and you
also referenced the Belt and Road initiative, part of which is
China building coal-fired plants with primitive technology
around the world. So there are mixed feelings--mixed signals,
if you will. John Kerry is speaking against the U.S. financing
an LNG import facility in Mozambique when, like, if they do not
use our natural gas, they may use Chinese technology, which is
primitive, and we will increase the emissions by over 100
percent because of that transition, not to mention the loss of
jobs here and the gain of jobs elsewhere.
So do you see my confusion? It is as if Mr. Kerry does not
know the difference between coal and natural gas in terms of
its cleanness, if you will, and our technology versus primitive
Chinese technology. So you will be the agency responsible for
this. How do we resolve this? There is uncertainty as regards
the Biden Administration's desire to fund these projects. Do
you think the U.S. should continue to fund LNG projects around
the world, again, to use our clean-burning natural gas as
opposed to the Chinese primitive technology for coal-fired
plants?
Dr. Light. Well, Senator, thank you for the question.
I think that what China is doing, as I said, is a threat,
not only to the climate, it's a threat to U.S. national
security. It has to be stopped. It has to be stopped in a
coordinated way. And frankly, the United States Government has
not been doing that for the duration of the extent of the
creation of the Chinese Belt and Road initiative. So we have to
create a whole-of-government approach. We have to work
together. We have to be able to go into these countries and
offer them packages that----
Senator Cassidy. Do those packages include funding LNG
import facilities?
Dr. Light. The packages can certainly include natural gas,
sir. We have to be able to go in and assess what is the best
option for these countries, given what their commitments are
with respect to their energy transition. We have to offer
something that is a better deal than what with China can
happen, and we have to be able to provide some finance that
will drive in private capital to do that. And that is how we
are going to create jobs, not only in those other countries,
but also jobs at home.
Senator Cassidy. So Mr. Kerry has suggested that investing
in oil and natural gas infrastructure, domestically or abroad,
is shortsighted. That would certainly work against an all-of-
government response, some of which has to include the capital
markets and that seems like a clear negatory upon capital
markets being invested in these projects. Do you follow my kind
of frustration by that sort of comment?
Dr. Light. Sir, I think that any time we get into a
conversation of a sort of a black versus white when it comes to
energy access around the world, we have to provide energy
access for other countries, we have to provide energy security.
We have to provide decarbonization. Energy is good. It is the
emissions that are a problem. We can become the leaders in
abated natural gas technology around the world. We can become
the leaders in abated coal technology around the world. We have
to innovate toward that way and we have to help countries to
get there. And I think that's the kind of combined packages
that we need to do.
Senator Cassidy. So in your role, you would say, if I may--
--
Dr. Light. Please.
Senator Cassidy [continuing]. Depending upon the type of
infrastructure, but U.S. investment in LNG infrastructure or
some other fossil fuel infrastructure indeed may be farsighted.
It would be something which we should promote. Is that a
mischaracterization of what you just said?
Dr. Light. Not at all, sir, as long as we are also looking
at the emissions picture. As long we are providing the cleanest
version of gas around the world, that's what I said before to
Senator Lankford. And I think that we also need to look at
helping to make sure that the new fossil technologies that are
created in other parts of the world--new fossil energy-
producing facilities--are also decarbonizing at the same time,
and I think we can do that.
Senator Cassidy. Sounds good.
Ms. Stone-Manning, I wasn't here. I think you may have
replied, but I just wasn't here to hear it. You have been
incredibly partisan in your past, including working actively
against the candidacy of Senator Daines. Theoretically, you are
going to work with Republicans in your office. I see you have a
prepared reply. You are pulling that over. Can you speak from
your heart, because it seems like your heart is that you really
don't particularly care for Republicans. And I, frankly, am
wondering, kind of, you know, just--my gosh, should I vote for
somebody who seems to be like--well, I'll stop there. How would
you reply?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I appreciate the question, and
my parents are rolling in their graves, who are Republicans. I
was raised in a bipartisan household. I live in a bipartisan
landscape. I think that my career has shown that the only way
to get things done in the country, and specifically in the
West, is to work together. I have a demonstrated track record
of doing that. Elections can be tough. I was supporting my
former boss, Governor Bullock, but the election is over, and I
will honor the outcome of that election.
Senator Cassidy. Thank you. I yield back.
Senator Barrasso. Senator Hickenlooper.
Senator Hickenlooper. First, I want to thank all four of
the panelists for your commitment to public service. I think
this has been a very vigorous and encouraging discussion.
Ms. Stone-Manning, there has been a lot of discussion about
the movement of the BLM's headquarters out of Washington by the
last administration. Obviously, it was done in haste, and it
did not pan out the way it was promised. Three hundred twenty-
eight headquarter jobs were planned to be moved to Grand
Junction, Colorado, but 287 people either retired or found
different employment. Only 41 people moved out to the West, and
just a fraction of that to Grand Junction. The victims of the
last administration's action were not just the BLM employees,
but the people of Grand Junction. The Grand Junction Daily
Sentinel wrote, ``A day after feeling like this was a game
changer for Grand Junction, the letdown is palpable.'' I think
we want to just make sure that as you consider the future of
the headquarters of the BLM, you recognize that those 41 people
in Grand Junction are in the balance in some way.
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thank you for the question, and
I appreciate our conversation about this the other day. It is
my understanding that the Department and the Secretary are
currently reviewing that, that they are surveying employees.
And if I have the honor of being confirmed and get there in a
timely way, you have my commitment to dive in and carry the
folks of Grand Junction and their concerns with me to the
consideration.
Senator Hickenlooper. Great. Also, we discussed a little
bit about the Uncompahgre Field Office's Resource Management
Plan that was released last April, and that it would be good to
know that some of that was delivered in haste, without maybe as
much science as we would want. Governor Polis has spoken out
against it, and we can work together on reviewing that.
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, if I have the honor of being
confirmed, I will work really closely with you and the folks in
Colorado on the ground whose voices need to be heard in that
planning process.
Senator Hickenlooper. Great. And then, implicit in all
that, of course, is that Secretary Haaland committed to coming
out to visit and see firsthand. We extend the same invitation
to you as well.
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I love Colorado. I would love
to come visit.
Senator Hickenlooper. Great.
Ms. Baker, one part of the Office of Minority Economic
Impact's mission is to facilitate partnerships with minority-
owned and minority-serving entities. In addition to this
Committee, I also serve on the Small Business Committee, and
have been a strong believer in small businesses and the
critical role they play in bringing about a clean energy
economy. Just a couple weeks ago, I introduced a Green Energy
Loan Enhancement program as one of a set of four bills to
really enhance access to capital for Small Business
Administration resources for historically underserved
communities, increasing access to capital for green
investments.
Can you speak just for a little bit about some of the roles
that minority-owned small businesses have to play in advancing
our clean energy goals while ensuring that the wealth, the
jobs, and the opportunities are distributed equally and fairly
as a result?
Ms. Baker. Senator, thank you so much for the question and
thank you for your leadership in this area.
I think we have an unprecedented once-in-a-generation--
perhaps once-in-a-century--opportunity to really build back
better. And the communities of color around this country have
been absolutely gutted by this pandemic, both in terms of death
rates and in terms of job loss. We are building our nation
back, and we are doing so in service of a clean energy future.
I think there is a critical role for minority-owned businesses
to play in this transition.
I will also flag that minority-serving institutions--
universities--are a key partner in this transition as well, and
they should be a part of this broader economic development
strategy. We know that there will be millions of jobs created.
There will be thousands of new businesses created and many
millionaires made in this transition, and it would be my hope
and it would be my honor, if I am confirmed, to work closely
with the ecosystem of entrepreneurs out there who are just
waiting for federal dollars to seed their businesses. Thank you
so much for your leadership, and I would look forward to
working with you on this effort.
Senator Hickenlooper. Great. And as is so often the case
here, I don't have enough time for all my questions, but I will
submit the questions to both Dr. Light and Mr. Walsh.
I think you have both done more than adequate jobs of
presenting all the potential you bring to these jobs. Ms.
Baker, you as well, and Ms. Stone-Manning, I look forward to
seeing you in Colorado once you are confirmed and working
together on a bunch of these issues.
So thank you all. I yield back to the----
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Hickenlooper.
Senator Hoeven.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member.
Ms. Stone-Manning, good to see you. Thanks for visiting
earlier, by phone. If confirmed, in regard to an earlier
question by Senator Lankford, you, I think, answered well that
public lands should be available for multiple use. Correct? You
believe that to be the case?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Yes.
Senator Hoeven. Yes. And if confirmed, are you willing, in
regard to energy development, will you commit to resuming
quarterly lease sales for energy development on federal lands?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I understand that the
Department is currently reviewing the oil and gas program, and
I am not there, so I am not privy to those conversations. If I
have the honor of being confirmed, I look forward to being a
part of those conversations with this Committee and folks on
the ground to figure out the best path forward for energy
development in the century we are sitting in.
Senator Hoeven. Well, that goes to another question that
Senator Lankford asked--that is, if something gets continually
delayed, that's the same as not allowing it, and I am sure my
colleague to my immediate right is going to share the same
concern. I share that concern. Senator Lankford shared that
concern. What about continuous delay? Are we going to see that?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, when I was the Director of the
Department of Environmental Quality in Montana, I had a goal of
providing certainty for folks, certainty for business,
certainty for local communities, for the conservation
community, and I was clear with people that I would take as
transparent and open and timely an approach as possible and
that no one would be surprised by the decisions that we made
because everybody would be part of the decision-making along
the way. I commit to you that we are going to work as
efficiently as possible, as government should.
Senator Hoeven. What impact on the environment would result
from closing off access to our federal reserves and shifting
global production to places like Russia, Saudi Arabia, and
Venezuela, which have less stringent environmental regulations?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, the President has called us to
work toward a clean and equitable future for our economy, and I
think that future depends on being secure. And so that would be
my approach, working with the Secretary, working with the
President, to ensure that we provide and lead the world in a
21st century energy economy.
Senator Hoeven. Would you acknowledge that not having
takeaway capacity for things like natural gas, meaning
gathering systems and pipelines, actually is less
environmentally sound than making sure that we have that
transmission capacity so that we can get that product to market
as safely as possible?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Yes, Senator. I understand the
importance of that question, particularly to your state, and I
would look forward to working with you on that issue.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
Ms. Baker, if confirmed, will you commit to working with
DOE's Office of Indian Energy and interested tribes to ensure
tribal nations are able to continue developing their oil and
gas and other energy resources?
One of the tribes in our state, actually the Mandan,
Hidatsa, and Arikara Nation, if they were a state, they would
be like in the top ten oil and gas-producing states in the
nation--and they do it very well. So are you willing to help
empower tribes for all kinds of energy development, with good
environmental stewardship, of course?
Ms. Baker. Senator, thank you so much for that question. I
have spent a decade working with indigenous communities all
over the world, and what I have come to understand through that
work is that no community is a monolith. Each community has its
own hopes and dreams and its own vision of what it wants. I
have also learned that consultation is key and really, you
know, leaning into relationships with leaders in that community
in order to advance objectives.
And so, if confirmed, I would be honored to work with
Wahleah Johns, who is the Director of the Office of Indian
Energy, to really understand the complex array of issues that
our indigenous communities around this country face.
Senator Hoeven. I appreciate that answer.
Also, how about carbon capture? So again, as we are doing
these things, both on traditional and renewable energy, we want
to lead the way in carbon capture. Are you willing to help work
with us and our tribes on that?
Ms. Baker. Senator, I would be honored to work with you and
your office on this issue, if I were confirmed. I also want to
highlight here that, again, there is no one-size-fits-all
solution, and I know that many communities are really
interested in carbon capture utilization and storage, and I
would be delighted to work with you to understand who those
communities are.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
Ms. Baker. Thank you.
Senator Hoeven. And just a final question for Mr. Walsh. If
confirmed, will you commit to ensuring that we have regulatory
certainty and predictability on matters before the Department?
You have a lot of people out there trying to do a lot of
things. If they get delayed forever, that sets them back. If
they do not have regulatory certainty, they cannot do the
things--including investment--all the kinds of things that
create jobs and better environmental stewardship and everything
else. So they need regulatory certainty. Will you commit to
that?
Mr. Walsh. Yes, Senator.
Senator Hoeven. Okay, thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Hoeven.
Senator Cantwell.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Walsh, I know you have heard about the Tri-Party
Agreement and its role in ensuring the Department of Energy
meets its legal and moral obligations to the Hanford cleanup.
As Secretary Granholm and Deputy Secretary Turk confirmed in
their confirmation hearings, cleaning up Hanford, one of the
largest radioactive waste cleanups in the world, is a very top
priority. And trust me, this is not something that can be
easily done. So the Hanford budget is paramount in living up to
the Tri-Party Agreement. Last year, the Department's own
website manager at Hanford said DOE would need to spend $3.3
billion in Fiscal Year 2021 to stay on track with the Tri-Party
Agreement. So that is DOE's own assessment and yet, the
President's budget for Fiscal Year 2022 does not match that.
So the answer is that the Department of Energy is not only
proposing to reduce the Office of River Protection by six
percent--the entire request is about $900 million less than
what the Department's own internal memo said was needed under
the obligations of the Tri-Party Agreement. So what will you do
as counsel to ensure the Department follows the law, and can
you commit to meeting all the Tri-Party Agreement milestones?
Mr. Walsh. Well, thank you for the question, Senator
Cantwell.
First off, let me say that I fully understand the
importance and the urgency of the Department's efforts at
Hanford and that you could be certain that, if confirmed, I
will work closely with you and your staff and the officials in
the State of Washington to do everything in my power to ensure
that the Department meets its obligations. And with respect to
the budget request, I was not privy to the considerations that
went into the President's budget, but again, I look forward to
working with you closely on those matters going forward, if
confirmed.
Senator Cantwell. So you will live up to the Tri-Party
Agreement and advise the Department of Energy to do so?
Mr. Walsh. Certainly. My view is that the Department should
seek to meet all of its obligations under the Tri-Party
Agreement and the consent decrees.
Senator Cantwell. Okay. The only problem with your answer
is just a little hesitation, so I hope you feel very firm in
the words that you just uttered because that is what it is
going to take, and so I appreciate it. It is a legally binding
document. Lots of Secretaries of Energy argue with the State of
Washington and others over it. Listen, we have the Tri-Party
Agreement because the state is holding the Department of Energy
accountable. And so this is not a State of Washington problem,
this is a national problem. And the state is just holding the
nation accountable for cleaning it up. That is why we have the
agreement. Every once in a while, somebody tries to do it on
the cheap, and it doesn't work. So I appreciate you committing
to that.
Dr. Light, I wanted to ask you about your thoughts on the
United States continuing to lead the role in diversifying our
energy sources, and how we do that at the international level.
By the way, I very much support the U.S.-Israel Energy Policy
Office, which is doing, I think, some great work on energy
security. And as we can see from our recent pipeline event, we
need all the security measures that we can get. But I think on
battling climate--in 2020 the new capital investment in clean
energy technologies totaled $500 billion. That is 2020. And in
2030, that number is supposed to be in the multiple-trillions
of dollars as a market opportunity.
So to me, I want to capture that market opportunity. I want
to make sure that we are not, you know--we are talking about
this big competitiveness bill on the R&D side, and we are glad
that we actually got some R&D dollar increases in there for
DOE. The Chairman was instrumental in that discussion, and I
very much appreciate his leadership on that. But what do we
need to do to make sure that the United States can be a global
leader in these international energy markets, which create
millions of jobs?
Dr. Light. Thank you for the question, Senator. I will give
credit where credit is due, and the Trump Administration
created the first ever Office of Market Development in the
Office of International Affairs in the Department of Energy.
This office was created in the early 1980s and didn't have an
Office of Market Development. I intend to triple the size of
it, if confirmed, and make sure that we have a team in the
Department of Energy that is working every single day to help
to expand our access to that burgeoning trillions-of-dollars
market that is unfolding and getting bigger every single day.
We need a whole-of-government approach on this as well. We
have competitors out there in the world--China, Russia,
others--who come in, they are able to not only, you know, build
you a plant, but provide the labor. In the case of nuclear
power, they will take the waste out for you. We don't have that
capacity right now. We need to make sure that we have the
Department of Energy working with the Department of State,
working with Treasury, the Development Finance Corporation, the
Export-Import Bank, USTDA, all of the array of things we have,
but moving together, finding the strategic opportunities around
the map and executing them.
Senator Cantwell. And what would you say those three
biggest opportunities are in?
Dr. Light. In terms of regions of the world, ma'am?
Senator Cantwell. No, no, just energy. You know, the
market--how big the market opportunity is. What would you say
are big opportunities for the U.S. to focus on?
Dr. Light. We have a tremendous opportunity still in
conventional renewables. So, we have countries, again, like
India with enormous targets. Prime Minister Modi has a target
of 450 gigawatts of installed renewable capacity by 2030, and
we
have a new partnership to do that. Number two--industrial
decarbonization. So how do we sort of provide CCS and hydrogen
solutions for things like steel, cement, chemicals? That is an
enormous opportunity. Number three--in nuclear. The United
States can compete with Russia, with China, with Korea, with
other providers, France as well. Right now, in the Department
of Energy, we are working on deals in Poland. We are looking at
a deal in Romania. We have deals that are unfolding in
Slovenia. There are all these countries around the world that
want to play serious in nuclear, and we have the providers that
can do that. And we are looking at billions of dollars in
direct return to the United States in terms of benefit just
with one of those plants built in one of those countries.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you. I am sorry I was over my time,
Mr. Chairman, but I really do believe in this important point
that the United States has a huge job opportunity, not just
here at home, but internationally. But we have to get it right,
and the fact that you mentioned CCS, nuclear, and renewables,
they all go together. We should be able to get around the table
on this agenda, just like we are on the EFA bill. We all ought
to be able to get around the table and say this is the market
opportunity that creates U.S. jobs.
Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Now we have Senator Murkowski.
Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Just following on Senator Cantwell's comments there, Dr.
Light, I might commend to you legislation that we have just
recently introduced called the SEMI Act, the Strategic Energy
and Minerals Initiative, which dovetails very neatly with what
you have just outlined there and I would ask that you take a
look at that.
Dr. Light. Yes.
Senator Murkowski. I want to direct my comments to you, Ms.
Stone-Manning, and I will first start off by just
acknowledging--I think you just mentioned, Dr. Light, that you
give credit where credit is due--and I appreciate the recent
actions of the Administration when it came to defending the
Willow Project, located entirely within the National Petroleum
Reserve-Alaska. That is going to be very, very, very important
to our state moving forward. Another area that is going to be
very important for our state moving forward is as it relates to
the public land orders (PLOs). These are land entitlements
from--basically from statehood. The Department has recently
taken unilateral action to pause these pending PLOs. This not
only impacts the commitment made at statehood, but also to our
Native Alaska Vietnam Vets. Despite the promises of Secretary
Haaland that she would engage in consultation on departmental
actions that impact Native Americans and Alaska Natives, this
decision was made without consultation.
Again, I cannot emphasize enough the significance of these
PLOs, and if you are confirmed as Director to the BLM, it is
going to fall on you to rectify this wrong. I know that you
have not been in place when this action was taken, but I
certainly hope that you have been briefed on them. I would like
you to explain to me your understanding of the recent PLO
withdrawal revocation in the state.
Ms. Stone-Manning. Thank you, Senator, for the question,
and I appreciated our time a couple weeks ago and look forward
to more if I have the honor of being confirmed.
I need to start with a little bit about my background. I am
the daughter, the sister----
Senator Murkowski. I don't mean to be rude and not go into
your background, but I have very limited time. Can you just
share with me whether you think it is appropriate for the
Federal Government to continue to withhold land to the State of
Alaska that it is entitled to under the Statehood Act?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thank you--and stepmom of
veterans and so, you do have my commitment to both follow the
law and follow and honor our commitment to our veterans in this
country.
Senator Murkowski. Well, it is not just the veterans. And
again, we are keying in on the veterans because that was
really, to me, that was just a slap in the face to our Native
veterans and their allotment, but that's a very small piece of
the broader issue of these PLOs and the fact that, effectively,
it has been determined that, after decades now, it is time to
release these. And it was only under this unilateral action
from the Secretary that now everything has been put ``on
pause.'' So again, I am very concerned about not only the
pause, but given your background with the National Wildlife
Federation where you were serving as Vice President for Public
Lands, you are working for an organization that, for years, has
worked to prevent the sale and transfer of national public
lands to state and private owners.
So I look at that and then I look at this situation that
you will have oversight of and that causes me deep concern.
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, that's fair, and if I have the
honor to be confirmed, I understand that being the Director of
BLM is a very different job than the work I have done at the
National Wildlife Federation. And you have my commitment that I
understand that the job is to follow the law and that the
Federal Government has commitments to the State of Alaska. I
understand that.
Senator Murkowski. I appreciate what you have just said
there with regards to following the law because current law
mandates that two lease sales be held in the 1002 area of the
Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). If confirmed as BLM
Director, you will be the one responsible for holding the
second lease sale by 2024, which is currently mandated by law.
So I would ask for your commitment--your reaffirmation that you
will intend to follow the law as it relates to these ANWR
leases.
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I understand that the current
leases are under litigation, and I expect, if I have the honor
of getting there, that conversations will be informed by that
for the second lease sale and again, generally speaking, you
absolutely have my commitment to follow the law. That's the
job.
Senator Murkowski. Well, it is the law, and again, I will
just repeat, the Secretary of the Interior, by law, shall offer
a second lease sale under the oil and gas program under this
section not later than seven years after the date of enactment
of the Act. That's the law. That's the law. And litigation is
going on, but this is the law, and so we would expect and
certainly intend that you would follow that.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Senator Daines.
Senator Daines. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I first want to begin by welcoming Tracy Stone-Manning to
the hearing today. Tracy has worked in and around Montana for
many years. For the past few weeks, I have heard feedback from
a lot of Montana stakeholders, some good, some not so good, and
I look forward to the discussions today to clarify your
position on these important Montana issues.
The Montana Conservation Voters ranked cancellation of the
Keystone XL Pipeline as their top priority while you were on
the board. The Keystone XL Pipeline would have been a carbon-
neutral, fair-wage labor project. Cancellation of the pipeline
immediately cost us over 1,000 jobs and $60 million a year in
tax revenue in the State of Montana, not to mention other
indirect jobs and the economic devastation of these small,
rural Montana counties. Has your opposition to the Keystone XL
Pipeline changed?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thanks for the question, and
it's an honor to be here with a fellow Montanan. The President
has made his decision on the Keystone Pipeline, and I am not
and should not second-guess him on that.
Senator Daines. So you are still opposed to it, though? You
were opposed to it before. You are opposed to it now?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, again, I am not going to
second-guess the President.
Senator Daines. I was asking about you though. You opposed
it before. Do you still oppose it now?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I served on a board of an
organization as a volunteer, and like many organizations that
do many things, sometimes board members agree, sometimes they
don't.
Senator Daines. What safer or cleaner method would you
propose to move oil and gas versus a pipeline?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Yes, Senator, I appreciate that
question. I think that, you know, depending on the mode of what
is being moved, pipelines have been shown to be safer to human
communities. Of course, there are problems with pipelines
with----
Senator Daines. And lower carbon emissions as well.
Ms. Stone-Manning [continuing]. Leaking and such. And you
know, any time humans do development and move products around
the planet, there are impacts. We just need to be smart about
mitigating those impacts.
Senator Daines. I wanted to talk for a moment here about
sage grouse. We have seen unprecedented investments in
proactive collaborative sage grouse conservation across the
West. The Trump Administration worked to ensure federal land
management plans were complementary to state plans. These
efforts had the support of every western Governor. But you
stated that you hope the court would strike down these plans. I
would remind you the sage grouse is not listed under the
Endangered Species Act, and therefore, states should and have
taken a leading consideration. Is it still your position that
the most recent sage grouse plan amendments should be rescinded
either by the courts or the Administration?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thanks for the question. In
2015, we had a remarkable thing happen. Westerners of all
stripes came together and found agreement on these sage grouse
plans. Governor Bullock and Governor Mead and Governor Sandoval
and Governor Hickenlooper, all standing on a stage celebrating
the fact that we had found agreement, and then the Montana
State Legislature, backed with a $10 million investment to do
our part. And my concern was that the Trump Administration had
not given those plans time to work, and that had not honored
that original deal.
Senator Daines. So, it is still your position that they
should be rescinded even by the courts or the Administration?
Ms. Stone-Manning. I think that the 2015 plans needed to be
given time to work.
Senator Daines. Ms. Stone-Manning, in 2015, you authored an
article that called the Rock Creek Mine ``philosophically
abhorrent,'' to quote yourself. Rock Creek Mine would create
300 full-time jobs and bring in $175 million in tax revenues.
This project has been extensively researched, has a decades-
long permitting history, as you know, and has strong local
support. While this mine is permitting through the Forest
Service and Montana DEQ, I have heard concerns from the
community that such a strong opposition as yours, against a
Montana-led project, might be indicative of a larger bias
against mining on public lands.
My question is, is it still your position that Rock Creek
Mine and similar mining projects are, ``philosophically
abhorrent?''
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thanks for the question. And I
hope that you would look to my track record as Director of the
Department of Environmental Quality and my ability to work
closely with industrial applicants and be fair and be
transparent and to make sure that any development is able to
follow the law.
Senator Daines. Do you still agree though, that it is
philosophically abhorrent? It was your--you put it on the
record there. Do you still agree with that statement or do you
rescind that statement?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I think many people were
concerned about the idea of digging a mine under one of our
first wilderness areas in the country.
Senator Daines. So you still think it is philosophically
abhorrent? Your words.
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator----
Senator Daines. Have you talked to the folks up in Sanders
County and Lincoln County about that?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I have spent long conversations
with folks on the ground and they----
Senator Daines. Yes, and did you tell them it is
philosophically abhorrent?
Ms. Stone-Manning. And I spent many conversations, I
remember talking about getting school books to school kids, and
we have a job to do as Montanans to create good-paying, family-
wage jobs that come from development that is going to take care
of our environment. And at the time that I said that, I was
concerned about some of the hydrological studies and what it
would do to the lakes and the wilderness.
Senator Daines. And as you studied it more, have you
changed your opinion on that?
Ms. Stone-Manning. I haven't seen the recent studies. It's
been years.
Senator Daines. Okay, all right.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Daines.
And first, the Committee has received letters for several
organizations supporting one or more of the nominations. I ask
unanimous consent to enter those letters into the record at
this point. And hearing no objection, it is ordered.
[The letters mentioned appear after the nominees' responses
to questions for the record, and begin on page 142 of this
hearing document.]
Senator Barrasso. Dr. Light, key points and key parts of
Chinese solar panels are currently being manufactured in the
province in China where the Muslim Uyghur minority is used in
forced labor. A recent study from the United Kingdom, Sheffield
Hallam University, found that forced labor permeates the entire
supply chain of the solar panel industry. This has been broadly
reported. Most solar modules rely on solar-grade polysilicon,
and 45 percent of that is manufactured in the Uyghur region in
China. It has also been established that child labor is used in
the production of cobalt in the Congo. Cobalt is a key material
in electric batteries. Demand for it is expected to rise
sharply. There was an article in the Economist two weeks ago
about whether they can do electric vehicle recyclable and the
batteries and all of these things.
But if confirmed, we are trying to figure--what will you be
able to do to ensure that the value chain of solar panels and
batteries and wind turbines and other technologies are not
tainted with forced labor and child labor?
Dr. Light. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
This is a situation that concerns me gravely as it does
you. It is absolutely appalling. The only good thing I can say
is that it is good that we know what we are dealing with now.
And so I think that the release today by the White House of
this new report on supply chain is the first step of many steps
that we have to do to respond to this. In fact, the Office of
International Affairs of the Department of Energy led on the
part of the report that deals with batteries, and then you, of
course, had Department of Defense dealing with critical
minerals and so on and so forth.
So now we are getting more transparency of what the problem
is, we're tracking not only the environmental impact of some of
these supply chains, but obviously, also the human rights
violations there. The two things that we have to do, sir, are,
number one--we have to work with, at least from the perspective
of the Office of International Affairs, we need to increase our
domestic supply so that we are not relying on supply that is
dirty, one way or the other that you look at it. Number two--we
have to work with our allies to go on the offense, frankly, and
that's the Congo case, where China has swooped in and taken
about 30 percent--a slightly larger percentage of the owned
cobalt reserves in the Congo than the Congo government owns
themselves. And so we have to go on the offense on this in the
same way that we are going to have to on all the other energy
projects we have to look at around the world.
Senator Barrasso. So then you agree with me that expanding
domestic mining of critical minerals is going to make us less
dependent on China and other foreign nations?
Dr. Light. It will, sir, and it is something I look forward
to working with your office on.
Senator Barrasso. Mr. Walsh, you and a co-author published
an extensive paper on electric transmission. I would like to
call upon your expertise on that subject. I just finished Bill
Gates' book on what happens with the climate and what we need
to do in the long term, and he talks about the grid. You know,
to achieve net-zero carbon emissions by 2050 with wind and
solar generation, what Princeton University has said in their
Net-Zero America report, that projects that the United States
would need to increase U.S. transmission capacity by more than
five times to be able to do what they are talking about doing.
And I would note that the Princeton scenario is actually less
aggressive than what the Biden Administration's goal is that
the power sector be carbon free by 2035.
So what facts do you know that suggest it is realistic to
expect that so many electric transmission lines can be legally
sited on anything like the timetable needed to meet the
President's goal--and especially when we are not talking about
trying to bury lines, which are not able to dissipate the
heat--so we are talking about overhead lines, primarily,
because of the size of the lines and the necessary amount?
Mr. Walsh. Well, thank you for the question, Senator.
It's a very important one, and I do share the view that
siting more high-voltage, long-distance transmission will be
essential for maintaining the resilient grid and the supply of
affordable, clean energy nationwide. And you are exactly right
to put your finger on the issue of permitting and challenges.
That is a real problem. The Department has some ability to play
a role in easing those challenges by coordinating with other
federal agencies to streamline permitting processes, and, if
confirmed, I would look forward to engaging in those efforts
and working with your office.
Senator Barrasso. So do you think Congress should be
passing laws to speed the regulatory process so that these
needed transmission lines can be built?
Mr. Walsh. Quite possibly, Senator. I mean, I don't know
that I could speak to the Department on pending legislation,
but it sounds like a laudable goal and something that I would
look forward to working with your office on.
Senator Barrasso. Ms. Stone-Manning, the Bureau of Land
Management manages livestock grazing on about 155 million acres
of land in the western United States--Wyoming, Montana, lots of
areas. This issue is deeply important in my home State of
Wyoming. I was at our Wyoming Stock Growers Association, their
annual summer meeting that was this past weekend in Sheridan,
Wyoming. If confirmed as Director you would oversee this
activity. Recently, I introduced a bill called the RANCH Act to
promote resilient and healthy rangelands and effective grazing
management across the West through the extension of grazing
permits and adaptive management tools to better respond to
extreme weather conditions and to fire.
So please explain what your priorities would be for
livestock grazing management, and what changes, if any, you
would make to improve how BLM administers permits and leases
for livestock grazing as an important multiple-use activity on
our public lands?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thank you for the question.
A few years ago, I was visiting with a cattlemen's
association that straddles the Idaho and Nevada state line and
learned that some of them had permits that were 15 years out of
date. And that's not government serving the people the way it
needs to serve the people. So you would have my commitment, if
I had the honor of being confirmed, of ensuring that we focused
on that program and got people the tools they needed to do
their jobs, to get updated permits into place, permits that
brought into account people's understanding of the ground.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
Dr. Light, in recent testimony before the Senate Energy and
Natural Resources Committee, I asked Fatih Birol, who is the
head of the International Energy Agency, whether U.S.
leadership in oil and gas production was a good thing for the
security of international energy markets, and his response was,
yes, definitely yes. Do you agree with that, Doctor?
Dr. Light. Completely agree.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
Senator Marshall.
Senator Marshall. My first question is for Dr. Light. We
had a great visit, I appreciate that. You know, like you, I
want to leave this world cleaner, healthier, and safer than I
found it. I believe in using affordable clean energy. I believe
that we can take traditional energies and make them more
affordable and cleaner by innovation and technology. As I think
about this world challenge that we have with our environment, I
think probably the biggest predictor of the carbon footprint of
this world is our world economy, a strong world economy, which
could lead to infrastructure--and that leads me to a nation, an
ally to the United States that you are very familiar with, and
the opportunities, I think, for India to have natural gas and
other energy resources as well.
But how would you see your role in promoting the
opportunities for natural gas in India, and any other thoughts
on developing countries and how they could best manage their
energy--affordable energy and clean energy as well?
Dr. Light. Thank you, Senator Marshall. I very much enjoyed
our conversation yesterday. I appreciate it.
So yes, sir, India is one of the countries that I know
best, probably the only country I know a little bit more about
is the United States, and one of the great things that we did,
as you know, sir, coming out of the President's Climate Action
Summit, was create a new overarching energy and climate
umbrella platform with India to try to help India to get to
their 2030 goal of 450 gigawatts with installed renewable
capacity. Now, I think if we can create the markets in India on
abated natural gas, on abated coal, on nuclear, on hydrogen,
right--they already have the targets there on renewables--then
you can change the world, and the United States should be the
biggest supplier for all of it.
So I think that what we need to do is to work with the Modi
government to make sure they can hit the targets that they have
and empower them to hit even bigger targets, especially in the
decarbonization of heavy industry.
Senator Marshall. Thank you so much for that.
And my next question is for Tracy Stone-Manning. Ms.
Manning, it has come to my attention that you accepted a 12-
year personal loan based on your financial disclosures, and if
you have been asked this, forgive me, it is hard balancing back
and forth, but you took out a personal loan of between $50,000
and $100,000 while you were working as the State Director for
Senator Tester. And according to your disclosure, it looks like
you received that at an interest rate of six percent, but the
going rate for a consumer loan was 11 percent. Do you feel like
that's some type of a conflict of interest to take out a
personal loan when you are working for a United States Senator,
and were you aware that the difference in the interest rate was
significantly below the average?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I appreciate the question.
Ethics are deeply important to me. Like many families in 2008,
we got smacked by the recession, and a friend loaned us some
money to make sure that we could get through it, and we came to
terms and we honored the loan.
Senator Marshall. Do you feel that you gained something by
that, by not paying the standard interest rate, that you were
given an interest rate less than the average consumer interest
rate was then?
Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I was grateful for the help
from a friend.
Senator Marshall. All right.
Dr. Light, let's go back to you. What other opportunities--
we mentioned India, what other energy opportunities are there
out there that would both help the United States economically,
but also to make the world a cleaner place to be?
Dr. Light. There are plenty. We have an abundance of
opportunities out there, sir. As I said before, a $23 trillion
opportunity, and that's the floor by 2030 if you unpack the
different commitments that parties have made out there. For
example, I think that there is an incredible array of
opportunities in the transportation sector, the low-carbon and
zero-carbon transportation sector throughout South America, if
you unpack the commitments the different parties have made
there under the Paris Agreement. We have an enormous
possibility with high tech on the cooling side in the Gulf
States. We have nuclear opportunities just all over the world
at this point for those countries who decide to use nuclear
energy as a safe part of their decarbonization strategy. We
should continue supporting our hydro assets as well in those
countries that have safe, secure, and reliable hydro assets.
There really is no end to it.
I think the only thing we need to do is to get the United
States interagency together and figure out what our highest
target opportunities are with a very clear eye on where other
countries are going with dirtier technology. That is what China
is doing now. The only way we can stop them is to get our skin
in the game and offer something better.
Senator Marshall. Could I have one more question, Mr.
Chairman?
Senator Barrasso. Please, go right ahead.
Senator Marshall. If we have the time.
I am going to go back to Dr. Light one more time here. I
believe if the entire world would start using E-15, we would
decrease tailpipe emissions by 40 or 50 percent. We have that
technology today. It is not something that we are dreaming
about.
Dr. Light. Right.
Senator Marshall. What are the opportunities for biofuels
as far as trying to lower the carbon footprint of the rest of
the world?
Dr. Light. There is an enormous array of opportunities,
scaled from conventional biofuels to the more advanced ones.
And one of the things that I was very pleased to see is that
last week at the combined ministerial meetings of the Clean
Energy Ministerial and Mission Innovation processes, the United
States got in, and it has become a leader on the biofuel
platform there in the Clean Energy Ministerial forum.
We also decided to co-lead with Denmark and others on an
advanced shipping fuels initiative, where biofuels will have a
very big opportunity there as well. So across the
transportation spectrum, again, there is nothing but
opportunity if we get out there and we get in front of it.
Senator Marshall. Thank you. I look forward to working with
you, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Senator Marshall.
I want to thank all of you and congratulate all of the
nominees for today. We appreciate you being here with us this
morning, your responsiveness to our questions and concerns, and
your willingness to take on these important jobs.
Members are going to have until 6:00 p.m. tomorrow to
submit written questions for the record, and we ask that you
get back to us very quickly with those responses.
With that, the Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:09 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
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