[Senate Hearing 117-139]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                        S. Hrg. 117-139

                      STONE-MANNING, BAKER, WALSH,
                         AND LIGHT NOMINATIONS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                                   to

 CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF TRACY STONE-MANNING TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE 
  BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT; SHALANDA H. BAKER TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE 
  OFFICE OF MINORITY ECONOMIC IMPACT, DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY; SAMUEL T. 
WALSH TO BE GENERAL COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY; AND ANDREW E. LIGHT 
     TO BE AN ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF ENERGY (INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS)

                               __________

                              JUNE 8, 2021

                               __________






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               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources



        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov


                               ______
                                 

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

44-958 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2023












               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman

RON WYDEN, Oregon                    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington           JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico          STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine            JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado       CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
                                     ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas

                      Renae Black, Staff Director
                      Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
             Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
              Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel








                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West 
  Virginia.......................................................     1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from 
  Wyoming........................................................     2

                               WITNESSES

Tester, Hon. Jon, a U.S. Senator from Montana....................     4
Stone-Manning, Tracy, nominated to be Director of the Bureau of 
  Land Management................................................     6
Baker, Shalanda H., nominated to be Director of the Office of 
  Minority Economic Impact, Department of Energy.................    11
Walsh, Samuel T., nominated to be General Counsel, Department of 
  Energy.........................................................    15
Light, Dr. Andrew E., nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of 
  Energy (International Affairs).................................    19

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Aiken Audubon Society et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   142
American Forests:
    Letter for the Record........................................   146
American Motorcyclist Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   148
American Woodcock Society et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   151
Associated Logging Contractors, Inc.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   153
Backcountry Hunters & Anglers:
    Letter for the Record........................................   154
Baker, Shalanda H.:
    Opening Statement............................................    11
    Written Testimony............................................    13
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................   110
Barrasso, Hon. John:
    Opening Statement............................................     2
Boich Companies:
    Letter for the Record........................................   155
Bullock, Hon. Steve:
    Letter for the Record........................................   158
Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Nation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   165
Dallas Safari Club:
    Letter for the Record........................................   175
Herrell, Hon. Yvette et al:
    Letter for the Record........................................   177
Light, Dr. Andrew E.:
    Opening Statement............................................    19
    Written Testimony............................................    21
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................   125
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
Missoula County Commissioners:
    Letter for the Record........................................   162
Montana American Indian Caucus:
    Letter for the Record........................................   159
National Association of State Energy Officials:
    Letter for the Record in support of Shalanda Baker...........   166
    Letter for the Record in Support of Samuel Walsh.............   167
    Letter for the Record in support of Andrew Light.............   168
National Forum for Black Public Administrators:
    Letter for the Record........................................   169
National Wildlife Federation et al:
    Letter for the Record........................................   173
Outdoor Recreation Roundtable Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   171
Salmon River Cattlemens Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   164
Stone-Manning, Tracy:
    Opening Statement............................................     6
    Written Testimony............................................     8
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    53
Tester, Hon. Jon:
    Opening Statement............................................     4
Walsh, Samuel T.:
    Opening Statement............................................    15
    Written Testimony............................................    17
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................   119
West Virginia Rivers Coalition:
    Letter for the Record........................................   157
Western Leaders Network:
    Letter for the Record........................................   180








 
                      STONE-MANNING, BAKER, WALSH,
                         AND LIGHT NOMINATIONS

                              ----------                              


                         TUESDAY, JUNE 8, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:06 a.m. in 
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin 
III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III, U.S. SENATOR FROM 
                         WEST VIRGINIA

    The Chairman. We meet today to consider four pending 
nominations. The four nominees are Ms. Tracy Stone-Manning, to 
be Director of the Bureau of Land Management, Ms. Shalanda 
Baker, to be the Director of the Office of Minority Economic 
Impact at the Department of Energy, Mr. Samuel Walsh, to be the 
General Counsel of the Department of Energy, and Dr. Andrew 
Light, to be the Assistant Secretary of Energy for 
International Affairs.
    Welcome to all four nominees and your family that is with 
you. Thank you for being here this morning and for your 
willingness to serve in these important positions. And again, 
your family is so well represented here with you, and 
supportive, and that is always a good thing.
    In addition, we are fortunate to have Senator Jon Tester 
from the great State of Montana to join us this morning to 
introduce one of the nominees, Ms. Stone-Manning. Welcome, 
Senator Tester. It is always good to have you, and you are 
always welcome.
    Before hearing from Senator Tester and the nominees, I will 
make a few remarks about each of the nominees and then turn to 
Senator Barrasso for his opening remarks, then we will go to 
Senator Tester.
    The job for which our first nominee, Ms. Stone-Manning, has 
been nominated is older than the Interior Department itself. 
Although the Bureau of Land Management as we now know it was 
created by President Truman in 1946, the Bureau traces its 
roots to the General Land Office, which Congress created over 
200 years ago to manage our public lands. It is also a big job. 
The Bureau manages 245 million surface acres and another 700 
million acres of subsurface. It manages hardrock minerals, 
coal, oil, and natural gas development on federal onshore 
lands. It grants rights-of-way for electric transmission lines 
and oil and gas pipelines across federal lands, permits grazing 
on public lands, and manages timber on federal forest lands in 
the Northwest. It is responsible for 28 national monuments, 23 
national conservation areas, and 260 wilderness areas.
    Nearly 50 years ago, Congress established a policy that our 
public lands must be managed in a manner that will both meet 
the nation's needs for their natural resources and preserve 
their special environmental values. That is not an easy task. 
It requires the Director to balance competing and often 
conflicting demands. Ms. Stone-Manning has served in Senator 
Tester's office as head of Montana's Department of 
Environmental Quality, as Governor Bullock's Chief of Staff, 
and at the National Wildlife Federation.
    Our next nominee is Shalanda Baker, who has been nominated 
to be the Director of the Office of Minority Economic Impact at 
DOE. The Office was established by Congress and named Office of 
Minority Economic Impact in 1978. The Office's purpose is 
twofold. It advises the Secretary of Energy on the impact of 
energy policies on minority communities, and it ensures that 
minorities and minority businesses are afforded the opportunity 
to participate fully in energy programs. Ms. Baker has devoted 
her professional life to studying and addressing the health, 
environmental, economic, and climate impacts on disadvantaged 
communities.
    Our next nominee is Sam Walsh. Sam Walsh has been nominated 
to be the Department of Energy's General Counsel. The General 
Counsel provides legal advice and counsel to the Secretary and 
indeed, the entire Department. It is the General Counsel's job 
to give sound answers to the countless questions of law that 
the Department faces across the breadth of its missions. Mr. 
Walsh is no stranger to the General Counsel's office. He served 
as a Senior Legal Advisor to the General Counsel for two years, 
as Associate General Counsel for two years, and as Deputy 
General Counsel for Energy Policy for two years. He has spent 
the past four and half years practicing energy law.
    And finally, our fourth nominee is Andrew Light, who has 
been nominated to be the Assistant Secretary of Energy for 
International Affairs. Energy markets have long been world 
markets. Congress recognized this when it created the 
Department of Energy nearly 45 years ago and gave the 
Department technical and policymaking roles to help shape the 
nation's foreign policy on energy matters. Here again, these 
functions hold special importance today as we confront the 
global reality of climate change. We cannot, nor should we, try 
to solve the climate crisis on our own. It is not a national 
problem or a regional one, but a global crisis, and we must 
work with other nations to solve it. Dr. Light brings to the 
job valuable diplomatic experience as a Senior Advisor and 
Counselor to our Special Envoy on Climate Change during the 
Obama Administration and as Consultant on Climate Change at the 
World Resources Institute.
    At this point, I am going to recognize Senator Barrasso for 
his opening statement before hearing from the nominees and 
Senator Tester.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING

    Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman. I would 
also like to welcome our nominees, Tracy Stone-Manning, 
Shalanda Baker, Samuel Walsh, and Andrew Light, to the 
Committee. Congratulations to each of you on your nominations.
    Ms. Stone-Manning has been nominated to serve as the 
Director of the Bureau of Land Management at the Department of 
the Interior. If confirmed, Ms. Stone-Manning will oversee over 
247 million acres of federal lands. That is one in every ten 
acres in the United States. It is about 12 percent, overall, of 
our nation's landmass. She will also manage approximately 30 
percent of America's minerals. By law, she will be required to 
govern these resources in a way that ensures their multiple 
use.
    The Director of the Bureau of Land Management has a 
tremendous amount of power. In this role, Ms. Stone-Manning, 
will have the authority over lands and minerals in every state, 
including my home State of Wyoming. Wyoming is proud to be 
America's leading producer of coal, uranium, trona, and 
bentonite. Almost 50 percent of Wyoming's surface area and 
almost 70 percent of our minerals are owned by the Federal 
Government. We rank number one in federal natural gas 
production and number two in federal oil production. In 
addition, grazing, recreation, and off-highway vehicle access 
on BLM lands are all critically important to Wyoming.
    The Bureau of Land Management needs a director who believes 
in and is committed to upholding the agency's multiple-use 
mandate. Based on her record, I am concerned that Ms. Stone-
Manning does not fill the bill. Her career has been defined by 
her support for policies that restrict multiple-use activities 
on public lands. On Twitter and in other public forums, she has 
expressed views that threaten the livelihoods of energy 
producers, of ranchers, of farmers, of loggers, and others with 
a stake in the responsible use of our natural resources. She 
opposes an American energy-dominance agenda. She supports 
prohibiting oil and gas development on federal lands and 
waters. She believes it was wrong to relocate the Bureau of 
Land Management's headquarters from Washington, DC, to Grand 
Junction, Colorado, so it would be closer to the resources that 
the agency manages and the people it serves.
    Perhaps most troubling is Ms. Stone-Manning's unvarnished 
political partisanship. In a tweet from February, she summarily 
dismissed concerns expressed by me and my Republican colleagues 
about then-Congresswoman Haaland's nomination to be Secretary 
of Interior as nothing more than ``a dog whistle reserved for a 
candidate of Haaland's tribal status and gender.'' Last year, 
for political gain, she smeared a champion of common-sense 
conservation and a member of this Committee. As a member of the 
Board of Directors and Treasurer of the Montana Conservation 
Voters, Ms. Stone-Manning signed off on political ads attacking 
Montana Senator Steve Daines, while Montanans saw right through 
it and so have I. I look forward to hearing Ms. Stone-Manning's 
explanation for why Republicans like me and Senator Daines and 
other colleagues on this side of the dais should have 
confidence that she will work with us in good faith and in a 
bipartisan fashion.
    I also look forward to hearing the testimony of our other 
nominees, Ms. Baker, Mr. Walsh, and Dr. Light. I hope they will 
explain how they plan to promote an all-of-the-above energy 
strategy that successfully leverages all of America's abundant 
energy resources. Congratulations again to all of the nominees. 
I look forward to hearing the testimony.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
    And now, we will recognize Senator Tester to introduce Ms. 
Stone-Manning.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JON TESTER, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM MONTANA

    Senator Tester. Thank you, Chairman Manchin, and I want to 
also thank Ranking Member Barrasso for holding this meeting.
    As a Montanan, there are few things that can rival our love 
for the importance of our public lands. We raise our children 
on these lands. We make a living off these lands. If Senator 
Daines was here--he is not--I would say he proposed to his wife 
on these lands. So it is my pleasure today to introduce my 
fellow Montanan, somebody who exhibits uncommon common sense, 
somebody who has two ears and one mouth and acts accordingly, 
someone who is a critical thinker, thinks reasonably, and 
promotes reasonable decisions. That person is also President 
Biden's nominee to run the Bureau of Land Management.
    Look folks, the last time I sat in this committee room was 
to introduce Ryan Zinke, a Republican representative, who 
President Trump nominated to lead the Department of the 
Interior, and I supported him in that position. While we may 
not always see eye-to-eye, with all due respect to everyone 
here, Montanans know there is no better person for a job like 
the BLM position than a fellow Montanan, and you may ask why. 
Because Tracy is a proven leader with a track record of working 
across the aisle to get things done. She is honest. She is 
driven by facts, not political ideology. She is adept at 
managing the needs of diverse interests, and I know she is a 
perfect choice to run the BLM.
    Tracy and I first crossed paths when she was in charge of 
restoring the Clark Fork River, a critical watershed that after 
years of toxic runoff and neglect was in bad shape. So Tracy 
did not sit on her hands. She brought together a diverse 
coalition made up of conservationists--listen to me--
conservationists, organized labor, industry, agencies, and 
elected officials from every level of government and got them 
rowing in the same direction to clean up and protect the Clark 
Fork River and the basin it runs in. I was deeply impressed 
with her work on that project, so I did like any of us would 
do--hired her--and I hired her to be my Missoula Regional 
Director and lead up the natural resource portfolio. Tracy 
played a key role on my staff in jump-starting conversations 
between people who had spent years battling one another in 
courtrooms and the press. These folks range from individuals in 
the timber community, to wildlife and wilderness advocates, to 
small business owners. Ultimately, we saw some important timber 
projects move forward and breathtaking landscapes protected.
    After leaving my staff, Tracy went on to lead the Montana 
Department of Environmental Quality, where she was confirmed 
with strong bipartisan support because of her experience and 
her skill. At the DEQ, Tracy was responsible for overseeing the 
responsible development of our state's natural resources and 
for enforcing the laws that protect Montana's clean air and 
water. It is no surprise to me that she received letters of 
support from a wide range of groups, including sportsmen and 
oil and gas companies, that appreciate her work and appreciate 
her attitude. Tracy has shown a lengthy commitment to making 
things work. She is well versed in everything from oil and gas 
permitting to outdoor recreation and land conservation, and she 
understands the central role public lands play in our country. 
Putting her in charge of the BLM will be putting a competent, 
down-to-earth leader in place who knows that the best solutions 
come from collaborations, not steamrolling. And in an era of 
division, she is a person this body can get behind and work 
with. I urge your support of her nomination.
    I just want to close with this, with all due respect to the 
Ranking Member. The points that you brought up, the talk about 
appropriate use, did not describe the person that I just talked 
about. This person listens. She works. She does the right 
thing.
    There was a bill that came up last year about putting a 
gold mine on the border of Yellowstone National Park. I opposed 
it. I think anybody with common sense would oppose it, at the 
headwaters and the border of Yellowstone National Park. If that 
is what we are talking about, then that is the kind of person 
we need in the BLM. There are places we can mine. There are 
places we can drill. There are places appropriate for resource 
extraction. There are other places that are not. I think Tracy 
Stone-Manning brings that understanding to the table, and she 
is somebody that believes in multiple use, and appropriate use.
    And I will tell you this, I would not be here today 
introducing her if I thought she was the person that you 
described, Senator Barrasso. This is a good person that has a 
good heart, that understands the value of our public lands.
    Thank you both, Mr. Chairman and Senator Barrasso.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Tester, and we very much 
appreciate you coming this morning and taking time to introduce 
your friend and a very accomplished person.
    The rules of the Committee, which apply to all nominees, 
require that they be sworn in in connection with their 
testimony. So if you will please stand and raise your right 
hand.
    Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to 
give to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God?
    [Witnesses sworn in.]
    The Chairman. You may be seated.
    Before you all start your statements, I am going to ask 
three questions addressed to each nominee before this 
Committee.
    First, will you be able to appear before this Committee and 
other Congressional committees to represent departmental 
positions and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
    [Witnesses respond ``yes.'']
    The Chairman. Are you aware of any personal holdings, 
investments, or interests that could constitute a conflict of 
interest, or create the appearance of such a conflict, should 
you be confirmed and assume the office to which you have been 
nominated by the President?
    [Witnesses respond ``no.'']
    The Chairman. Are you involved or do you have any assets 
held in a blind trust?
    [Witnesses respond, ``no.'']
    The Chairman. Let us begin with you, Ms. Stone-Manning. You 
are recognized to make your statement.

   OPENING STATEMENT OF TRACY STONE-MANNING, NOMINATED TO BE 
           DIRECTOR OF THE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT

    Ms. Stone-Manning. Thank you. Good morning, Chairman 
Manchin and Ranking Member Barrasso and members of the 
Committee. I am honored to come before you today as President 
Biden's nominee to be the Director of the Bureau of Land 
Management. I thank the President for the nomination. I thank 
this Committee for its consideration of it. I am grateful to my 
state's senior Senator and former boss, Jon Tester, for that 
kind introduction.
    I am joined today by my husband of 30 years, Richard 
Manning, and I am certain I would not be here without him. With 
me also in spirit are my parents. My father, a submarine 
commander, who is buried across the river in Arlington National 
Cemetery and my mother, who raised five kids and died just last 
summer. They instilled in me the core belief that service to 
our nation and its people are our highest calling. That has 
guided my every step and has me in this seat before you today.
    Public service--serving in government--is serving the 
people, and if done well, it's serving the future. My first 
professional job was running a land trust in Missoula, Montana. 
I sat around kitchen tables discussing very private family and 
financial matters. That's where I learned that the land and 
people are inextricably tied. I later directed an organization 
working to clean up one of the country's largest Superfund 
sites. We gathered people from all camps--Republicans and 
Democrats, Rotarians, trade unionists, environmentalists--to 
work for the removal of an ailing dam and the toxic sediments 
behind it. Our success created thousands of jobs. We started to 
understand the power and promise of a restoration economy. We 
saw how restoring the landscape restores communities.
    Senator Tester asked me to join his new Senate staff 
shortly thereafter to bring people together around tough 
issues. On day one, his Chief of Staff said to us, ``The 
election is over. The Senator wants to be clear. We work for 
all Montanans, not just the ones who voted for us.'' And so we 
did, solving problems regardless of party, finding solutions 
right for the land and the people who inhabit it. That's how we 
forged partnerships with loggers. That's how we broke the 
decades-old wilderness stalemate, by listening, by working 
together.
    I took that spirit with me when Governor Bullock asked me 
to serve as the Director of the Department of Environmental 
Quality, safeguarding our clean air and clean water. The job 
required listening, gathering facts, and being decisive--not 
jumping to conclusions. It required trusting career staffers 
with decades of experience and getting them the tools they 
needed to do their jobs. Then the Governor asked me to be his 
Chief of Staff. Montana had about 11,000 employees, roughly the 
same as the Bureau of Land Management. It was a fast-paced, 
all-in job that required listening, calm, and the ability to 
get facts and act on them. I loved it. Governor Bullock, like 
my boss before him, was unequivocal about the need to work with 
all parties to get things done. That bipartisan approach, for 
example, is how we passed healthcare for 90,000 Montanans 
through the legislature and how we passed a water compact for 
the Confederated Salish and Kootenai tribes that this body 
passed just last November with the leadership from Senator 
Daines and Senator Tester.
    All along, my professional life has been informed by a 
private passion for hiking, backpacking, hunting, and floating. 
The power I am granted by the mountains and rivers I love is 
ineffable, but real. This rare privilege has left me fiercely 
committed to ensuring that everyone and future generations 
share the same opportunity. That is why I have spent the last 
four years at the National Wildlife Federation advocating for 
the balanced use of our public lands and Congressional 
investment in them. I think every step of my career has 
prepared me for this role. The Bureau of Land Management is 
tasked with the daunting mission to sustain the health, 
diversity, and productivity of our public lands. The Bureau 
manages these lands for multiple uses and multiple values. 
Their uses range from energy development to recreation, from 
scientific and cultural resources to grazing and timber, and 
from critical minerals to wildlife habitat.
    There is a lot of work to do. President Biden has called on 
the country to build the equitable, clean energy economy of 
tomorrow. He has called on us to conserve and restore lands to 
address the crises of biodiversity and climate change. He has 
been clear about the need to engage everyone, not just the 
privileged or special interests, to ensure nature is accessible 
to all of us. The BLM manages roughly one in ten acres in the 
country. It can and must help us rise to this historic moment. 
If confirmed, I will listen and I will seek to work with anyone 
willing to help tackle these problems, regardless of party. 
That is how we find durable solutions, by working together.
    I thank you for the time and look forward to the discussion 
today.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Stone-Manning follows:]

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    The Chairman. Thank you so much.
    Next, we are going to hear from Ms. Baker.

    OPENING STATEMENT OF SHALANDA H. BAKER, NOMINATED TO BE 
DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MINORITY ECONOMIC IMPACT, DEPARTMENT 
                           OF ENERGY

    Ms. Baker. Good morning. Let me begin. I am the daughter of 
two Black Americans. My father, Charles Lee Baker, was an 
extraordinary man. He grew up in Port Arthur, Texas, a low-
income, majority Black and Latinx community that forms part of 
the heart of our nation's petrochemical, oil, and gas 
industries. He and his brothers grew up in the Carver Terrace 
Housing projects, separated from one of the largest oil 
refineries in the world, the Texaco (now Motiva) oil refinery, 
by a metal fence.
    My father grew up in this community which, like so many 
environmental justice communities around this great country, 
routinely face exposure to many environmental hazards, 
including exposure to air particulate matter, a contributor to 
asthma and heart disease, and benzene, a known carcinogen. Like 
his mother and his eldest brother, my father died way too young 
of heart disease. Like his father and brothers and so many 
Americans, he made a good living in the energy industry. I 
stand before you in honor of his legacy and in recognition of 
the complex ways in which the energy system shapes American 
lives. If confirmed, I would be honored to help lead the 
Administration's transformative Justice40 Initiative to ensure 
that communities like my father's, as well as those whom we 
have relied on for coal, oil, and gas production, have a future 
in the new clean energy economy.
    My mother, Constance Renea Grant, was and is extraordinary. 
She raised me in a home that academics would call an energy-
insecure home. Like one in three American households, 52.2 
percent of Black American households, and 61.5 percent of 
Native American households, we used the oven to warm our 
apartment in Austin, Texas, where I grew up. On nights when we 
could see our breath, we layered on blankets and clothing to 
keep safe from the cold, and to try to get a good night's 
sleep. In the summers, my sister and I spent days on end in the 
public library to keep cool. Our struggle with energy 
insecurity was exacerbated by our energy burden--the amount of 
my mother's overall household income we used to pay for energy. 
My mother served this country as a civil servant, both for the 
State of Texas and the Federal Government. Her government 
salary disqualified her from meaningful public access to public 
assistance, but it was too little to secure our home. Our 
household, like so many American households, was invisible to 
policymakers. We fell through the cracks.
    It was my mother's service to our country that inspired me 
to serve. In 1994, I joined about 1,200 other first-year cadets 
for boot camp at the United States Air Force Academy. Around 
200 of us were women, ten of those women were Black. I 
graduated as a commissioned officer in 1998. At the Academy, 
our core values were ``Integrity First, Service Before Self, 
and Excellence in All We Do.'' In 2000, with these three core 
values engrained in my spirit, and my military career ahead of 
me, I made the difficult decision to come out as a lesbian. I 
had joined the military and served during the height of the 
``Don't Ask, Don't Tell'' policy. This policy put LGBTQ 
servicemembers at risk, and in my own life, it meant that an 
abusive partner wielded a power over me that jeopardized my 
oath.
    I left the military deeply committed to continued service 
on behalf of communities that lacked a voice and lacked power. 
I became a corporate and project finance lawyer in Boston and 
later in Japan, and eventually an academic committed to 
exploring and exposing the injustices in our energy system. I 
have spent the past decade studying this energy transition, and 
my research has shown me that energy justice requires that we 
rethink and redesign the entirety of our energy system. Energy 
justice also requires that we recognize the tremendous 
sacrifices that communities like my father's have paid to 
ensure that the nation has access to reliable power.
    If I am fortunate enough to be confirmed as the Director of 
the Office of Minority Economic Impact, I will work to advance 
three objectives. First, I will tackle the energy burden that 
plagues households and communities in this country. Second, I 
will bring clean technology parity to underserved communities 
that have currently been left behind in the energy transition. 
Third, I will pair public sector and private sector expertise 
to expand access to capital, create new businesses and jobs, 
and build wealth in communities that have persistently been 
underserved by federal programs. I will use my lived 
experiences, coupled with the academic rigor and 
entrepreneurial streak I have honed over the past decade to hit 
the ground running during one of the most challenging periods 
in our nation's history.
    Thank you. I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Baker follows:]


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    The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Baker.
    And next we are going to have Mr. Walsh.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF SAMUEL T. WALSH, NOMINATED TO BE GENERAL 
                 COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY

    Mr. Walsh. Thank you. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member 
Barrasso, distinguished members of the Committee, thank you 
very much for the opportunity to appear before you today. It is 
a great honor to be here.
    Let me begin by expressing my sincere appreciation to 
President Biden for asking me to serve as General Counsel of 
the United States Department of Energy. If confirmed, I would 
work hard to justify the confidence he has placed in me to 
serve in that role. I also want to thank Secretary Granholm for 
her confidence in asking me to serve as her counsel. I would be 
privileged to advise the Secretary and her team as they work to 
advance the Department's vital mission. Finally, I would like 
to thank my wife, Elisabeth, who has joined us here today, my 
children, June and Miles, and my family and friends, both near 
and far, for their love and support.
    Mr. Chairman, as you know, the General Counsel is the 
principal legal officer of the Department. The General Counsel 
provides legal advice to the Secretary and her team, represents 
the Department before other federal agencies, and works with 
the Department of Justice to represent the Department in the 
federal courts. Put simply, the General Counsel is responsible 
for ensuring that the Department follows the law. Thankfully, 
the General Counsel does not do this alone. The Department has 
a dedicated and knowledgeable staff of attorneys. I had the 
great pleasure of working alongside this group for over six 
years. If confirmed, I would look forward to working with them 
again, learning from them again, and once again drawing on 
their deep expertise in the service of the Department.
    I have spent my career in the field of energy law. After 
graduating from Harvard Law School, I had the privilege to 
serve as a law clerk for Judge David Tatel, on the United 
States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. I 
then worked in the energy group of a law firm called Hogan & 
Hartson, which later became Hogan Lovells. In 2010, I joined 
the Department of Energy as an advisor to the General Counsel. 
I stayed at the Department through 2016, and during that time 
was promoted first to Associate General Counsel and then to 
Deputy General Counsel for Energy Policy in 2014. As Deputy 
General Counsel for Energy Policy, I had the responsibility for 
legal issues arising from the Department's electricity, fossil 
energy, and civilian nuclear programs. Since 2017, I have been 
a partner at Harris, Wiltshire & Grannis, here in Washington, 
DC. At the firm, I have built a practice advising clients on 
energy regulatory issues and representing them before federal 
and state agencies and in the federal courts.
    Mr. Chairman, I have learned from my experience at the 
Department how important it is to have open lines of 
communication with Congress. If confirmed, I will make myself 
available to the members of this Committee, your staffs, and 
your colleagues throughout Congress. I hope that, if confirmed, 
you will find me to be a responsive and collegial partner and 
one that is straightforward in my interpretation of the 
Department's legal authorities.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you and the Committee once again for 
the opportunity to appear before you. I look forward to 
answering any questions you may have.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Walsh follows:]


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    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Walsh.
    Now we will have Dr. Light.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF DR. ANDREW E. LIGHT, NOMINATED TO BE AN 
     ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF ENERGY (INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS)

    Dr. Light. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso, and 
distinguished members of the Committee, I am truly honored to 
be part of this hearing and to be nominated. I want to first 
thank my wife, Juliet, without whom I would not be here today 
and my son, Milos, who is here with us and Marika, my daughter, 
who is watching at home, surely the two best people that I 
know.
    The most important thing you need to know about me for this 
position is that I am the grandson of two West Virginia coal 
miners, Jack Light and Carmine Pellegrino. They both spent 
their lives doing grueling, dangerous work and for far too 
little compensation. Carmine was paid by the ton of coal he 
moved by hand in a day, setting a local record that some in 
Bridgeport, West Virginia, still remember. Both of my 
grandfathers died when I was young, but my memories of them 
remain clear, and they fill me with pride. My grandparents put 
all they had into building prosperity and security for their 
country, their communities, and their families. I didn't grow 
up in West Virginia. Years before I was born, my dad moved 
south with my mother to Georgia. I grew up in rural towns. I 
developed an abiding love of the natural world that has shaped 
my adult life. But we went back to West Virginia twice a year 
to see family, and the changes I saw in both of these states, 
both good and bad, drive my desire to see every community 
flourish.
    With my time today, I want to focus on three goals deriving 
from my history that I will bring to the role of Assistant 
Secretary of Energy for International Affairs, if confirmed, 
that I believe will improve the lives of all Americans: seizing 
the opportunity to create good-paying jobs, securing 
partnerships that will make Americans safer, and winning the 
technologies of the future.
    First, seizing the job opportunity. Like President Biden 
and Secretary Granholm, I believe that climate action is simply 
job creation. The clean energy transition in the United States 
will produce millions of good-paying jobs, but this job-
creating market opportunity is even greater outside of the 
United States. Think about it. The biggest growth in 
population, energy access, and creation of new infrastructure 
will happen where the rest of the world's billions of people 
live. For example, the climate commitments of just the top 21 
developing countries under the 2015 Paris Agreement have opened 
up an estimated $23 trillion investment opportunity through to 
2030. And that is just for 21 countries out of over 190 that 
made commitments under Paris. If we go after this market, the 
economic opportunity for American workers and companies is 
simply staggering. If I am confirmed to this body, I will 
pursue this opportunity every single day. The lion's share of 
bilateral and multilateral cooperation and engagement by the 
U.S. can create millions more good-paying jobs that will 
benefit the entire country.
    Second, securing partnerships. The global opportunities for 
job creation embedded in goals like achieving net-zero 
emissions by 2050, which President Biden has committed us to, 
will not just come to us, we have to go to them. If we don't, 
then other countries will take those opportunities, and they 
already are. But we have achieved some notable wins. We have 
also stood by while competitors, especially China, have created 
massive international energy development programs in other 
countries. If fully realized, China's Belt and Road initiative 
will dwarf the Marshall Plan. And Belt and Road does not just 
build energy infrastructure around the world, it builds spheres 
of influence. Abandoning critical partnerships with the rest of 
the world not only leaves us out of job creation opportunities 
but also makes us less safe and less secure.
    Finally, winning the technologies of the future. Estimates 
are that about half of the energy technologies we need to 
achieve net-zero emissions by mid-century either are not 
commercially viable or not available today. Nonetheless, all G7 
countries are now committed to this goal, along with an 
increasing number of developing economies. Sectors where it is 
harder to reduce emissions, like steel, cement, and chemicals, 
will need carbon capture, hydrogen, and other innovations. 
While the Department of Energy has produced some of the most 
important clean energy deployment and development initiatives 
in the world, like the Clean Energy Ministerial and Mission 
Innovation, we also need to forge targeted partnerships with 
countries that share our principles on respect for workers, 
market values, environmental protection, and scientific 
integrity. We have to compete to become the biggest innovator 
and manufacturer in hydrogen, carbon capture, and other 
technologies that will create more jobs while meeting the 
climate challenge.
    Now, some have asked me over the years if it's odd that a 
grandson of two coal miners is as committed to a clean energy 
transformation as I am, but I don't have any doubt that my 
grandparents would approve. Like them, I only want to build 
prosperity and security for our country, our communities, and 
our families. Jack Light and Carmine Pellegrino would surely 
understand that, and then they would tell me to get to work.
    I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Light follows:]


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    The Chairman. Thank you, Dr. Light.
    I will now start our questions, and I will start with you, 
Dr. Light. I believe that we have in the Department of Energy, 
the national laboratories, and ARPA-E, as you are pretty much 
aware of, the brain power needed for us to lead the world in 
technology innovation, to create new jobs in the country, to 
supply world markets, and reduce carbon. I often say that we 
cannot eliminate our way to a clean environment--the global 
clean environment. We have to innovate our way. I know in your 
statement you just made, you previously served as Senior 
Advisor and India Counselor to the U.S. Special Envoy on 
Climate Change. How can we get India, China, Russia, and 
indeed, much of the world, to do their fair share in reducing 
carbon emissions? Not by trying to force them to eliminate what 
they are going to use in their backyard, but how can we get 
them to start using it, with technologies that we do through 
innovation?
    Dr. Light. Thank you, Senator, for the question.
    I think the first thing we needed to do, and President 
Biden has done it, is rejoin the Paris Agreement on climate 
change. It doesn't force----
    The Chairman. There are no teeth to it.
    Dr. Light. What's that?
    The Chairman. There are no teeth to it.
    Dr. Light. There are no teeth to it with the respect that 
it doesn't force any country to do anything.
    The Chairman. Right.
    Dr. Light. But the commitments that have been made by China 
and India and other big emitters, internationally, which now 
have some oversight and transparency so that we can see whether 
they're doing what they're doing, would not exist without the 
Paris Agreement.
    The Chairman. Got it.
    Dr. Light. And that is the forcing agreement that we're 
going to use to rachet to put more pressure on them to do more. 
India is doing a lot. India has the biggest sectoral energy 
targets in the world, 450 gigawatts by 2030 is what Prime 
Minister Modi has committed to. We have created a new 
overarching umbrella agreement with India where I think we can 
actually build things like a hydrogen or CCUS-driven steel--
indigenous steel production capacity, which the United States 
can then sell to. And that's how we're going to do this. We're 
going to show that we can work with these countries together.
    China may be harder, but I think that we will get there 
eventually with them, and they will see that as the United 
States is back at the table, they're going to have to step up. 
They no longer can claim some mantle with other, you know, big 
players out of the question. And so, and we are actually are 
seeing this now. To date, about 72 countries responsible for 
about 35 percent of global emissions have stepped up and said 
that they are going to put new commitments, new bigger 
commitments under the Paris Agreement, and another 80, 
responsible for 40 percent of global emissions, are already 
there. So already we are seeing the impact of the United States 
being back at the table pulling countries back into it to do 
more, and we have to do that.
    The Chairman. Well, being a grandson of two former coal 
miners from West Virginia, we know you understand the common 
sense that it is going to take an ``all-in'' energy policy for 
us to go further ahead.
    I would ask Ms. Tracy Stone-Manning--the importance of the 
BLM is just enormous, as has been spoken about. And I am 
learning more and more about it every day. But with that, I 
would ask you, do you believe the United States of America 
should be energy independent?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, yes, I do.
    The Chairman. Okay.
    Do you agree with Secretary Haaland that fossil fuels must 
continue to play a major role in America's energy grid for 
years?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, yes, both she and the President 
have said as much.
    The Chairman. Okay.
    And do you believe we could strike the right balance 
between environmental protection and responsible energy 
development so that we can maintain our energy advantage?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I think we can and must.
    The Chairman. Okay.
    What are your plans with BLM? Right now, we have an awful 
lot of people, myself included, very much concerned about the 
emissions of methane from drilling. Do you have any thoughts 
about that, of how we could curb that? And I will give you a 
little tidbit into what I have found out, that most of the 
problem arises because we cannot get permits for pipelines to 
take the methane off of government lands. So you are damned if 
you do, and you are damned if you don't. Do you have any 
thoughts on that?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Yes, Senator, thanks for the question. I 
think everybody can agree that burning money is a really bad 
idea, and if I have the honor of being confirmed, I will work 
with you and anybody willing to work on figuring out how to 
capture that methane and make good use of it.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Ms. Baker, the President set a goal of directing 40 percent 
of the benefits of federal investments in clean energy, 
training, workforce development, environmental cleanup, and 
clean water infrastructure to disadvantaged communities. What 
is your understanding of the meaning of the term disadvantaged 
community as used in the Justice40 Initiative, and does it 
extend to the coal mining communities in my State of West 
Virginia and many other states that bore the brunt of building 
and powering this nation and now risk being left behind?
    Ms. Baker. Thank you so much for your question, Senator. 
The Justice40 Initiative is absolutely the cornerstone of this 
Administration's climate transition policy. As you mentioned, 
the President has made this commitment to ensure that 40 
percent of the overall benefits of certain investments go to 
disadvantaged communities. In the same Executive Order 
announcing the Justice40 Initiative, the President makes a deep 
commitment to energy communities, which are communities that 
are experiencing the transition away from fossil fuels. And in 
fact, he has ensured or he has said that both energy 
communities and disadvantaged communities will be at the front 
of his economic policy with respect to climate.
    If confirmed, I would be delighted to work both with energy 
communities, as well as disadvantaged communities, to ensure 
that we have clean energy solutions in those communities, that 
we bring economic development into those communities, and we 
also bring opportunities for wealth creation in those 
communities. And the President has made it clear that he is 
deeply committed to both energy communities and disadvantaged 
communities.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Barrasso.
    Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Stone-Manning, there is an Energy & Environment news 
article from January 2020, so, a year and a half ago. This is 
what they reported: ``When Montana Senator Steve Daines began 
pressing his colleagues,''--all of us--``to support fully 
funding a popular conservation program, he might have 
anticipated a bit of praise for his bipartisanship. Instead, 
the Montana Conservation Voters,'' they say, ``have spent 
months spewing criticism at the first-term Senator via digital 
ads, yard signs, a website--and, in their latest effort with 
sardonic vodka.''
    Now, the article then goes on to describe Senator Daines' 
efforts in 2019 to persuade all of us in the Senate to provide 
full, mandatory funding for the Land and Water Conservation 
Fund. Working with other Senate colleagues, Senator Daines 
secured $495 million, the largest appropriation for the Fund in 
more than 15 years. So environmental groups across the board 
praised the funding. Montana Trout Unlimited called Senator 
Daines a champion for permanent full funding. Apparently, this 
is not good enough for the Montana Conservation Voters, which 
the E&E article noted is, ``staffed with individuals who work 
in Democratic Congressional or state offices and on 
campaigns.''
    Well, Ms. Stone-Manning, you were a member of the Board of 
Directors and actually, the Treasurer of the Montana 
Conservation Voters. This is the group that participated in 
this political hit job against Senator Daines, and you were the 
Treasurer for the funding of those ads and the attacks. So on 
behalf of all the Republican Senators, we wonder how members of 
this Committee can have any confidence that you are going to 
work with us in any kind of fair or bipartisan way?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thank you for the question, and 
to this Committee and to the body, thank you so much for 
passing full and permanent funding of the Land and Water 
Conservation Fund.
    My role at the National Wildlife Federation, running our 
public lands program, I think was a very bipartisan approach in 
that really bipartisan success. And I think my track record, my 
professional track record across the last 30 years has a very 
western sensibility to it, which, you know better than most, in 
the West, if you want to get something done, you have to work 
together.
    Senator Barrasso. But in terms of your role specifically 
with the Montana Conservation Voters and your role as being on 
the Board and the Treasurer, do you still believe today all the 
things that your group said about Senator Daines over the past 
year and a half?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I have led non-profit 
organizations, and I have been on the board of non-profit 
organizations, and I take very seriously the difference in 
those two roles. I was a voluntary member, board member, who 
had a core belief of never micromanaging staff, and I hope that 
you would look to my record in my day job of that issue and my 
approach to it.
    Senator Barrasso. In 2020, you were the Senior Advisor of 
Public Lands for the National Wildlife Federation, you talked 
about that and you urged the Forest Service to abandon plans to 
expand oil and gas development in our national forests. You 
said at the time that the proposed rule would create ``deadline 
loopholes for oil and gas companies so they can avoid 
compliance with environmental regulations.'' Well, I disagree. 
I think oil and gas production on federal lands, certainly I 
see it in Wyoming, is subjected to some of the most stringent 
regulations in the world. There is currently no end in sight 
for President Biden's federal ban on new oil and gas leasing on 
federal lands, which is likely going to lead to America 
importing their resources, including from foreign nations, and 
where in foreign nations their efforts there producing this 
energy much lacks the environmental standards that we have 
here.
    Are you concerned that oil and gas production is going then 
migrate from federal lands in our country to other areas, 
making us more dependent on foreign countries, including the 
ones with very few environmental standards?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thanks for the question.
    I think that the President and Secretary have been clear 
that this leasing pause is giving the Department time to take a 
hard look at the oil and gas program and make sure that it's 
right for the century that we are living in and if I have the 
honor of being confirmed, I look forward to digging in and 
helping with those discussions.
    Senator Barrasso. Ms. Baker, the application of hydraulic 
fracturing, horizontal drilling, and advanced seismic imaging 
has led to much greater production in this country in natural 
gas. This has led to lower gas and electricity prices for 
consumers, especially those of low incomes to the point that in 
2019, the White House Council of Economic Advisers found that, 
``by lowering energy prices, the shale revolution is saving 
U.S. consumers $203 billion annually, an average of about 
$2,500 for a family of four.'' They went on to say, ``In other 
words, low energy prices are like a progressive tax cut that 
helps the poorest households the most.''
    Do you agree with that assessment, that the shale 
revolution has actually been an economic benefit to many low-
income households?
    Ms. Baker. Thank you so much for the question, Senator 
Barrasso.
    I agree wholeheartedly that lowering energy costs for the 
lowest-income Americans is a good thing.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Now we have Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Heinrich. Chairman, I am quite pleased this morning 
to support the nomination of Tracy Stone-Manning, and I hope 
that this Committee will advance her nomination quickly. I, 
frankly, cannot say how refreshing it is to have a BLM nominee 
who actually has experience in tribal issues, in land 
conservation, in water settlements, in wildlife conservation, 
in all of the things that we wrestle with in western states 
each and every day. Westerners know that the only way to solve 
natural resource challenges is to work with people from all 
walks of life, and Tracy has done that throughout her career. 
She has worked with ranchers and wilderness advocates, with 
hunters and mountain bikers and trade unionists and tribal 
leaders, and she knows how to work across the aisle to find 
creative solutions. The BLM has been without a confirmed 
director--for good reason, in some cases--for almost four and a 
half years. That should not continue one day longer. I hope we 
can confirm Tracy Stone-Manning for BLM Director very soon so 
that she can get to work. And with that, I have a couple of 
questions for you, Ms. Stone-Manning.
    New Mexico has two relatively new national monuments--BLM 
monuments--the Rio Grande del Norte and the Oregon Mountains-
Desert Peaks, established in 2013 and 2015. However, neither 
monument has ever had a monument management plan to guide on-
the-ground management. A planning process would allow local 
residents, tribal leaders, all sorts of public land users in 
those areas, and business owners to weigh-in on how those areas 
should best be managed to protect the resources and the 
activities that occur there. If confirmed, will you make sure 
that the BLM works with the communities around these monuments 
to finally complete those plans?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, yes, I will. I agree 
wholeheartedly that the very best approach is to bring all the 
stakeholders together to come up with the best plan.
    Senator Heinrich. The BLM--last week, in fact--began the 
process to finalize the route for the SunZia Transmission 
project, which is a project that is critical to fully 
developing New Mexico's carbon-free energy resources. Without 
this line, wind and solar energy generated in New Mexico, 
particularly wind, has no way to be moved to larger energy 
markets to the West. The two lines will carry over three 
gigawatts of carbon-free electricity and create more than 6,000 
construction jobs. I am incredibly pleased to see SunZia moving 
to this next part in the process, and I would just ask, if 
confirmed, will you commit to working with me to ensure that 
this process stays on track and meets its schedule?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I would be honored to do so.
    Senator Heinrich. Ms. Baker, according to a 2018 study by 
the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, tribal lands actually 
have the capacity to provide about ten percent of the nation's 
total energy, including almost seven percent of our renewable 
energy capacity. Despite existing DOE programs, we have seen 
very little private capital flow to tribal renewable energy 
projects. And to date, the Tribal Energy Loan Guarantee 
Program, for example, has not made a single loan, and the 
Tribal Energy Resource Agreements from the Energy Policy Act of 
2005 have yet to be implemented. If confirmed, would you commit 
to working to address the challenges that are contributing to 
the underinvestment of private capital in renewable energy 
projects that directly benefit sovereign tribes?
    Ms. Baker. Thank you so much for the question, Senator 
Heinrich. I spent several years serving as a project finance 
lawyer and really learned the importance of access to capital 
across so many different landscapes. I have also worked closely 
with indigenous communities as a scholar, first in Mexico and 
later in Hawaii, and I know that these communities face a 
persistent lack of investment. If confirmed, I would work hard 
and closely with Wahleah Johns, who is currently the Director 
of the Office of Indian Energy, as well as Jigar Shah, who is 
the Director of the Loan Programs Office to really look into 
the barriers that indigenous communities currently face in 
accessing DOE and federal funds as well as private investment 
opportunities. I would also be delighted to work with your 
office to look at solutions to this persistent problem.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Ms. Baker, and I would 
encourage you to call on us for help when there are needs to 
change authorizations, to change legal language, so that we can 
finally accomplish some of the goals that we have set for a 
number of years now. Please count us in because there is a 
dramatic underinvestment in these communities. Thank you.
    Ms. Baker. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Now we have Senator Lee. Right here.
    Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Stone-Manning, let's start with you if that's all 
right. Some would argue that overemphasis on the minimization 
criteria for off-road vehicle trail designation frequently 
leads to what might be characterized as sort of a dismissal of 
the BLM's Federal Land Policy and Management Act multiple-use 
mandate. If confirmed, how would you work to seek to preserve 
the rights of off-road vehicle users and prevent these 
minimization criteria from becoming, in effect, elimination 
criteria?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thanks for the question.
    Back when I worked for Senator Tester and we polled 
stakeholders from all walks of life--people who normally 
wouldn't be in the room together, much less at the table 
together--we did really good work with the motorized community, 
with mountain bikers, with hikers, with hunters, with timber 
representatives, looking at maps and understanding that the 
landscape was big enough for everyone and just making very hard 
and smart decisions about how to share the land appropriately. 
I would take that approach to this work, and I would ensure 
that both science and law and input from stakeholders was 
driving the outcome.
    Senator Lee. Thank you.
    All right, let's talk about wild horses for a minute. Since 
1988, we have had appropriations bills that have been passed by 
Congress that have included provisions prohibiting the culling 
of old, sick, or lame horses, and during this same time period, 
over the last 32, 33 years, wild horse and burro populations 
have skyrocketed. Fiscal Year 2020 funding for the program was 
about five times the amount of Fiscal Year 2000, but in 2019, 
67 percent of the budget was used to hold these animals off 
range. Do you think that this prohibition is inhibiting the 
BLM's ability to fulfill its management duties, and if not, how 
would you plan on getting our herd management areas to an 
appropriate management level?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I appreciate the question. This 
has been a longstanding, difficult problem with herd sizes 
doubling every four years. So obviously, we need to work 
together and perhaps find some creative solutions, perhaps find 
some solutions with the help of Congress. It is clear to me 
that we need to ensure that humane treatment drives these 
decisions, and I think what I would bring most to the work is 
the understanding that we are managing for the landscape. We 
are managing for the health of the landscape and have that sort 
of core principle drive the work.
    Senator Lee. And you would agree that in many cases, wild 
horses and burros are, you know, that they are non-native 
species and in some cases, overpopulation has resulted in 
environmental degradation. Would you agree with that?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Yes, Senator, as I was saying, it is a 
long-standing problem. We have a law from Congress that is 
saying horses have a place on the landscape, but of course, we 
have a bunch of other multiple needs for the landscape as well, 
and when populations are bigger than our management objectives, 
we need to work together to do something about it.
    Senator Lee. You have been very vocal in your support for 
permanently funding the Land and Water Conservation Fund, which 
is, of course, used for the acquisition of new federal lands. 
There was, during the previous Administration, an order issued 
that would have required the written expression of support from 
governors and local governments before land in those areas was 
acquired under the LWCF. But earlier this year, the Biden 
Administration revoked that order. Do you think it was 
necessary or at least good practice to gain local support 
before acquiring additional federal land, and would you prevent 
acquisition of new land under the LWCF if that acquisition was 
opposed by local government officials?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Again, I need to thank this Committee 
for this incredible, beautiful, American conservation program 
that touches every county. If we all close our eyes and think 
about the park we went to as a kid, it's pretty likely that it 
was funded by LWCF. When Congress reauthorized the program 
permanently, it had that debate, and my job will be to 
implement the law as it was passed.
    Senator Lee. Okay, so you do not have a position on whether 
it is a good idea to acquire land in those cases, in those 
areas where the local government opposes it?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. I think stakeholder input is always 
important, Senator.
    Senator Lee. Good. Stakeholder input, of course, is 
different than acquiring against the opposition of a local 
government. Those are two different things.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I see my time is expired.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Now we have Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I ask the following two questions of all nominees who 
appear before any of the committees on which I sit. So you can 
respond en masse--individually, but together.
    First question: since you became a legal adult have any of 
you ever made unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed 
any verbal or physical harassment or assault of a sexual 
nature?
    [All witnesses respond ``no.'']
    Senator Hirono. Have any of you ever faced discipline or 
entered into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
    [All witnesses respond ``no.'']
    Senator Hirono. Thank you.
    Ms. Baker, the Department of Energy's Office of Minority 
Economic Impact has many responsibilities, including to promote 
historically underserved communities and small, disadvantaged 
businesses, i.e., minority-owned businesses, which have been 
disproportionately impacted by COVID-19, and many times this 
means making sure small, disadvantaged businesses have access 
to federal contracting opportunities through the DOE. President 
Biden has been working to expand opportunities for those 
businesses and recently proposed providing them with an 
additional $100 billion in contracting opportunities over the 
next five years. What do you see as the largest obstacle to 
expanding opportunities for historically underserved 
communities and small, disadvantaged businesses?
    Ms. Baker. Thank you for the question, Senator Hirono. It 
is great to see you again and I enjoyed----
    Senator Hirono. Aloha.
    Ms. Baker. Aloha. I enjoyed my time in Hawaii.
    So for the last several months, I have served as the 
Secretary's Advisor on Equity, and I have had the pleasure of 
leading the execution of Executive Order 13985, which you may 
know is the President's order on equity. And in that order, the 
President requires every single federal agency to examine and 
explore any barriers to accessing procurement and contracting 
opportunities. We are right in the middle of evaluating the 
barriers to accessing procurement opportunities and contracting 
opportunities, and I look forward to reviewing our Committee's 
analysis of those barriers. I do see access to finance, access 
to resources, as one of the key parts of really creating wealth 
in communities of color. And if confirmed as the Director of 
the Office of Minority Economic Impact, I would work closely 
with the Committee that is leading this work as well as 
entrepreneurs out on the field and other agencies who have 
access to resources, to bring those resources into communities 
of color. So, really excited to do that work, if confirmed.
    Senator Hirono. It makes sense to figure out what the 
barriers are, but part of, I would think, the function of your 
office would be outreach, because I have worked with a lot of 
small businesses and minority-owned businesses myself. A large 
part of it is--one, they do not even know that the 
opportunities exist, and if they do exist, just going through 
the process can be very daunting. So outreach on those kinds of 
opportunities really has to be looked at, and the initiative 
must be taken to reach out to these communities. And it sounds 
as though you have experience in doing that.
    Ms. Baker. Yes, Senator, I do have extensive experience 
with stakeholder engagement, and I am lucky enough to be 
nominated to serve in a role in an office that has deep roots 
in communities of color around this country and a proven track 
record of working with minority businesses. Of course, we need 
to do more, and of course, there is a tremendous opportunity in 
this clean energy transition to ensure that businesses that are 
led by women and led by people of color have a seat in this 
transition.
    Senator Hirono. The DOE's own U.S. Energy and Employment 
Report noted that ethnic and racial minorities make up a lower-
than-average portion of the energy workforce. We are now 
talking about the workforce--the people who are actually doing 
the things in this area. What are the major factors for why 
this is the case? Is it lack of educational opportunities? 
What? Why is it that there is such a significantly lower number 
of ethnic and racial minorities working in these areas?
    Ms. Baker. Well, Senator, I think you have highlighted a 
key issue that, if confirmed, I would be delighted to look into 
further. The Office of Jobs is now led by a wonderful person, 
Jennifer Kropke, who comes out of the labor movement and has a 
deep commitment to actually increasing the number of jobs that 
people of color have access to in this clean energy transition. 
If confirmed, I would work closely with Jennifer to ensure that 
the opportunities that this transition will present--and we 
know that there will be millions of jobs created--are equitably 
distributed.
    And so, if confirmed, I would look forward to digging into 
the problems and helping to develop the solutions.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Lankford.
    Senator Lankford. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. 
Witnesses, thank you for your testimony today and getting a 
chance to be able to go through all this. It is not a fun 
process to walk through this. So I appreciate you actually 
stepping up to be able to do it.
    Ms. Stone-Manning, let me ask you a broad philosophical 
question you have gone through before. Fill in the blank--
Public lands are for what?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Public lands are a beautiful, American, 
unique idea that are for many purposes.
    Senator Lankford. So give me some examples of some of those 
purposes, from your perspective and legally, as well, I guess.
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Our public lands develop energy. They 
provide places for people like me to hunt. They provide places 
for ranchers to graze. They provide places for people to take 
their families, backpacking, and car camping. It's a full suite 
of things that our public lands provide.
    Senator Lankford. So I have found in public lands, almost 
always what you love to do on public lands, you wish that was 
the only thing happening on public lands and everyone else 
should go away. So for the folks that love to do four-wheeling, 
they love to go four-wheeling on public lands and everyone else 
is in the way, and for everyone else that wants peace and 
quiet, they want the four-wheelers to go away. And it is the 
same with energy development.
    So my question is, you are going to be driven a lot to be 
able to balance out all those different priorities. How do you 
set those priorities because there will be many times that 
people are going to say ``this part of our public lands is 
really good for oil and gas'' or ``really good for renewables 
development'' or ``it needs a transmission line to be able to 
move wind power in across it.'' And other folks are going to 
say ``no, I do not want that here. I want that somewhere 
else,'' but that's actually the right spot, especially for 
energy mineral development, infrastructure development. How are 
you going to balance that?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Thank you for the question, Senator. I 
think that's at the heart of what makes me ready to do this 
job. I have spent a career of balancing the needs of various 
communities and stakeholders, and I would do that and then some 
in this position. I would have law and science and community 
input drive decision-making. It is 245 million acres. There is 
a lot of room out there for all of us. We just need to be super 
smart about how we engage with the landscape.
    Senator Lankford. You once made the comment that there is 
plenty of room in the West for oil and gas development. Is that 
true?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. There is plenty of room in the West for 
oil and gas development.
    Senator Lankford. The next big question is always going to 
be how long it takes to get a permit, how long it takes to get 
through the process, which is perpetually a challenge because 
it can be ``yes, we can do it, but it is going to take us five 
years to get there,'' and it becomes its own unique challenge 
to do that. You cannot answer that today. I would just tell 
you, that will be important to this Committee as well because 
it is one thing to say it is available. It is another thing to 
say it is really not available because it is going to take a 
really long time to get to it and the capital will not flow to 
places that it takes a really long time to actually use the 
lands and the taxpayers lose out--the country loses out in that 
long term.
    I need to switch over. Mr. Walsh, I apologize, I am running 
close on time on this. You have a very difficult task long-
term. You are going to protect the taxpayers from a lot of 
unneeded litigation because you have a responsibility to be 
able to step up and to tell folks that say ``I really want to 
do something--yes or no--does the law allow that or not?'' So 
my very straightforward question for you is, approaching a task 
as a counsel, every single administration, regardless of who is 
in office, every single administration is going to come to the 
counsel at some point and say ``I really want to do this. Find 
me a way to do it.'' And the counsel has the responsibility to 
say ``you can do that, if Congress passes a new law,'' instead 
of saying ``yes, here's a little unique way--novel--that no 
one's ever tried before that will end up in ten years of 
litigation and millions of dollars in taxpayer funds.''
    What are your thoughts on that? What is your role as 
Counsel?
    Mr. Walsh. Well, thank you for the question, Senator.
    It is a good question, one that every government lawyer 
faces, as you are certainly aware. But the bottom line is that 
the role of General Counsel is to provide frank, candid, legal 
advice, and when the answer to a legal question is ``no,'' the 
answer is ``no.'' The Secretary and other senior leaders in the 
Department will not be served by legal advice that takes the 
Department's programs and puts them into protracted litigation.
    Senator Lankford. I would agree.
    Dr. Light, we are going to count on you to deal with LNG 
exports and multiple things. Our global power is extended based 
on some of our resources. What are your thoughts on the export 
of LNG?
    Dr. Light. Thank you, Senator.
    So my thoughts on it are that U.S. LNG exports are at an 
all-time high. In March, we exported 10.2 billion cubic meters 
of LNG, which was a record. It looks like 2021 will increase by 
50 percent over 2020. And so they are very high. My job in this 
role is to make sure that U.S. gas is competitive around the 
world. More and more countries are looking for cleaner sources 
of gas. They are going to go around the world and do that. 
Russia has the dirtiest source of gas right now. We have to 
make sure that ours is cleaner and that ours fills those 
markets around the world, and that is what I intend to do.
    Senator Lankford. That would be helpful. Thank you.
    Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Senator Cortez Masto.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Congratulations to all the 
nominees. Welcome to family and friends.
    Mr. Walsh, let me start with you, following up with my 
friend and colleague Mr. Lankford's questions on your position 
as General Counsel. Can you share your general position on 
whether Yucca Mountain in Nevada should be a federal repository 
for the nation's nuclear waste?
    Mr. Walsh. Thank you for the question, Senator, and I 
certainly understand the importance of this question to you and 
your constituents in Nevada.
    President Biden and Secretary Granholm have both stated 
very clearly that they regard the Yucca Mountain site to be 
unworkable. Secretary Granholm has advocated for an approach 
based on 
consent-based siting, along the lines of the recommendations 
provided by the Blue Ribbon Commission. I am also aware that 
Congress has recently appropriated funds for the Department to 
begin to pursue consolidated interim storage through a consent-
based siting process. And so, if confirmed, I would look 
forward to providing legal support to that effort and to 
working with your office.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, and I appreciate your 
comments because the entire delegation, at least on the Senate 
side, has supported the Nuclear Waste Informed Consent Act that 
we introduced, and I think it is so important that we listen to 
the states and local governments and tribal communities within 
a state when the Federal Government is looking to take action. 
That is why I invite my colleagues, including Senator Lee, to 
join the Nuclear Waste Informed Consent Act, because it does 
give local governments and our states and tribal communities a 
say in any action that Federal Government may want to take.
    Let me move on, Mr. Walsh. In 2018, the State of Nevada 
learned that the Trump Administration had secretly shipped 
plutonium intended for weapons production to Nevada to be 
stored indefinitely at the Nevada National Security Site 
(NNSS). I was able to reach an agreement with the Department of 
Energy, which the state used to secure a settlement with the 
Department last year to begin removing the plutonium this year. 
Can you commit to upholding this agreement and taking the 
necessary legal actions to ensure that the DOE and National 
Nuclear Security Administration remove the plutonium from the 
NNSS?
    Mr. Walsh. Thank you for the question, Senator. I am aware 
of the plutonium transfer to the NNSS that you are referring 
to, and I certainly understand the importance of the issue to 
you and to the state, and if confirmed, yes, I would do 
everything in my power to ensure that the Department fulfills 
its obligations under the agreement.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I appreciate your answer.
    Ms. Stone-Manning, thank you for having a conversation with 
me. Like my colleagues, the relationship of the Federal 
Government and the State of Nevada is so important. Eighty-five 
percent of the land in Nevada is owned by the Federal 
Government, and 60 percent of that is BLM. And so I appreciate 
your comments on the necessary opportunities for collaboration 
and how important it is to managing our public lands. So let me 
start there, because the Las Vegas Valley and Clark County is 
home to nearly two million people and growing. The valley is 
essentially landlocked by the Interior Department-managed 
lands, and the BLM manages hundreds of small parcels throughout 
the entire metropolitan area. In order for some city management 
actions to occur, it often requires collaboration with federal 
land managers.
    In order to ensure that local land management needs are 
being met and to support our local governments in facilitating 
a growing population and economic diversification efforts, the 
Interior Department is a focused and a present partner, and it 
is so essential, and it requires you to work with us to 
prioritize permitting and realty applications. It requires 
greater alignment between the BLM and state and local 
governments on renewable energy and transmission siting. It 
also requires the distribution of funds from the Southern 
Nevada Public Land Management Act special account for regional 
conservation and environmental enhancement projects, among 
other priorities.
    So my question to you is, can I have your commitment that 
you will prioritize efficient land management and greater 
collaboration in Southern Nevada?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, you do have my commitment. I 
would be happy to work with you and locals on the ground to 
make sure that government is serving the people. That is our 
job.
    Senator Cortez Masto. And then, let me talk about--and I 
only have a few seconds left here--but one of the areas that is 
important for Nevada that we are dealing with, and we are 
seeing it all across the West, are these wildfires. We have a 
lot of rangeland fires, and we have worked very hard over the 
last couple of years to really focus on wildfire prevention, 
suppression, and restoration. Would you commit to working with 
us to address greater amounts of prevention, suppression, and 
restoration work and resources to the rangeland and wildland 
urban interface areas?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, yes. As a Westerner, I, along 
with millions of other people, have breathed that smoke, and if 
I have the honor of being confirmed, I am really excited to 
full-on attack the invasive grass problem in the Great Basin, 
which is a carrier of those fires, and to work with local 
entities to make sure that communities are as safe as they can 
be.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    Senator Barrasso. Senator Cassidy.
    Senator Cassidy. Hey, Dr. Light. Thank you all, by the way, 
for your willingness to serve. I appreciate it.
    Dr. Light, you, in your testimony, speak about the clean 
energy transition bringing lots of jobs, and you also speak 
positively about U.S. natural gas. Now, as we know, and you 
also referenced the Belt and Road initiative, part of which is 
China building coal-fired plants with primitive technology 
around the world. So there are mixed feelings--mixed signals, 
if you will. John Kerry is speaking against the U.S. financing 
an LNG import facility in Mozambique when, like, if they do not 
use our natural gas, they may use Chinese technology, which is 
primitive, and we will increase the emissions by over 100 
percent because of that transition, not to mention the loss of 
jobs here and the gain of jobs elsewhere.
    So do you see my confusion? It is as if Mr. Kerry does not 
know the difference between coal and natural gas in terms of 
its cleanness, if you will, and our technology versus primitive 
Chinese technology. So you will be the agency responsible for 
this. How do we resolve this? There is uncertainty as regards 
the Biden Administration's desire to fund these projects. Do 
you think the U.S. should continue to fund LNG projects around 
the world, again, to use our clean-burning natural gas as 
opposed to the Chinese primitive technology for coal-fired 
plants?
    Dr. Light. Well, Senator, thank you for the question.
    I think that what China is doing, as I said, is a threat, 
not only to the climate, it's a threat to U.S. national 
security. It has to be stopped. It has to be stopped in a 
coordinated way. And frankly, the United States Government has 
not been doing that for the duration of the extent of the 
creation of the Chinese Belt and Road initiative. So we have to 
create a whole-of-government approach. We have to work 
together. We have to be able to go into these countries and 
offer them packages that----
    Senator Cassidy. Do those packages include funding LNG 
import facilities?
    Dr. Light. The packages can certainly include natural gas, 
sir. We have to be able to go in and assess what is the best 
option for these countries, given what their commitments are 
with respect to their energy transition. We have to offer 
something that is a better deal than what with China can 
happen, and we have to be able to provide some finance that 
will drive in private capital to do that. And that is how we 
are going to create jobs, not only in those other countries, 
but also jobs at home.
    Senator Cassidy. So Mr. Kerry has suggested that investing 
in oil and natural gas infrastructure, domestically or abroad, 
is shortsighted. That would certainly work against an all-of-
government response, some of which has to include the capital 
markets and that seems like a clear negatory upon capital 
markets being invested in these projects. Do you follow my kind 
of frustration by that sort of comment?
    Dr. Light. Sir, I think that any time we get into a 
conversation of a sort of a black versus white when it comes to 
energy access around the world, we have to provide energy 
access for other countries, we have to provide energy security. 
We have to provide decarbonization. Energy is good. It is the 
emissions that are a problem. We can become the leaders in 
abated natural gas technology around the world. We can become 
the leaders in abated coal technology around the world. We have 
to innovate toward that way and we have to help countries to 
get there. And I think that's the kind of combined packages 
that we need to do.
    Senator Cassidy. So in your role, you would say, if I may--
--
    Dr. Light. Please.
    Senator Cassidy [continuing]. Depending upon the type of 
infrastructure, but U.S. investment in LNG infrastructure or 
some other fossil fuel infrastructure indeed may be farsighted. 
It would be something which we should promote. Is that a 
mischaracterization of what you just said?
    Dr. Light. Not at all, sir, as long as we are also looking 
at the emissions picture. As long we are providing the cleanest 
version of gas around the world, that's what I said before to 
Senator Lankford. And I think that we also need to look at 
helping to make sure that the new fossil technologies that are 
created in other parts of the world--new fossil energy-
producing facilities--are also decarbonizing at the same time, 
and I think we can do that.
    Senator Cassidy. Sounds good.
    Ms. Stone-Manning, I wasn't here. I think you may have 
replied, but I just wasn't here to hear it. You have been 
incredibly partisan in your past, including working actively 
against the candidacy of Senator Daines. Theoretically, you are 
going to work with Republicans in your office. I see you have a 
prepared reply. You are pulling that over. Can you speak from 
your heart, because it seems like your heart is that you really 
don't particularly care for Republicans. And I, frankly, am 
wondering, kind of, you know, just--my gosh, should I vote for 
somebody who seems to be like--well, I'll stop there. How would 
you reply?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I appreciate the question, and 
my parents are rolling in their graves, who are Republicans. I 
was raised in a bipartisan household. I live in a bipartisan 
landscape. I think that my career has shown that the only way 
to get things done in the country, and specifically in the 
West, is to work together. I have a demonstrated track record 
of doing that. Elections can be tough. I was supporting my 
former boss, Governor Bullock, but the election is over, and I 
will honor the outcome of that election.
    Senator Cassidy. Thank you. I yield back.
    Senator Barrasso. Senator Hickenlooper.
    Senator Hickenlooper. First, I want to thank all four of 
the panelists for your commitment to public service. I think 
this has been a very vigorous and encouraging discussion.
    Ms. Stone-Manning, there has been a lot of discussion about 
the movement of the BLM's headquarters out of Washington by the 
last administration. Obviously, it was done in haste, and it 
did not pan out the way it was promised. Three hundred twenty-
eight headquarter jobs were planned to be moved to Grand 
Junction, Colorado, but 287 people either retired or found 
different employment. Only 41 people moved out to the West, and 
just a fraction of that to Grand Junction. The victims of the 
last administration's action were not just the BLM employees, 
but the people of Grand Junction. The Grand Junction Daily 
Sentinel wrote, ``A day after feeling like this was a game 
changer for Grand Junction, the letdown is palpable.'' I think 
we want to just make sure that as you consider the future of 
the headquarters of the BLM, you recognize that those 41 people 
in Grand Junction are in the balance in some way.
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thank you for the question, and 
I appreciate our conversation about this the other day. It is 
my understanding that the Department and the Secretary are 
currently reviewing that, that they are surveying employees. 
And if I have the honor of being confirmed and get there in a 
timely way, you have my commitment to dive in and carry the 
folks of Grand Junction and their concerns with me to the 
consideration.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. Also, we discussed a little 
bit about the Uncompahgre Field Office's Resource Management 
Plan that was released last April, and that it would be good to 
know that some of that was delivered in haste, without maybe as 
much science as we would want. Governor Polis has spoken out 
against it, and we can work together on reviewing that.
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, if I have the honor of being 
confirmed, I will work really closely with you and the folks in 
Colorado on the ground whose voices need to be heard in that 
planning process.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. And then, implicit in all 
that, of course, is that Secretary Haaland committed to coming 
out to visit and see firsthand. We extend the same invitation 
to you as well.
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I love Colorado. I would love 
to come visit.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great.
    Ms. Baker, one part of the Office of Minority Economic 
Impact's mission is to facilitate partnerships with minority-
owned and minority-serving entities. In addition to this 
Committee, I also serve on the Small Business Committee, and 
have been a strong believer in small businesses and the 
critical role they play in bringing about a clean energy 
economy. Just a couple weeks ago, I introduced a Green Energy 
Loan Enhancement program as one of a set of four bills to 
really enhance access to capital for Small Business 
Administration resources for historically underserved 
communities, increasing access to capital for green 
investments.
    Can you speak just for a little bit about some of the roles 
that minority-owned small businesses have to play in advancing 
our clean energy goals while ensuring that the wealth, the 
jobs, and the opportunities are distributed equally and fairly 
as a result?
    Ms. Baker. Senator, thank you so much for the question and 
thank you for your leadership in this area.
    I think we have an unprecedented once-in-a-generation--
perhaps once-in-a-century--opportunity to really build back 
better. And the communities of color around this country have 
been absolutely gutted by this pandemic, both in terms of death 
rates and in terms of job loss. We are building our nation 
back, and we are doing so in service of a clean energy future. 
I think there is a critical role for minority-owned businesses 
to play in this transition.
    I will also flag that minority-serving institutions--
universities--are a key partner in this transition as well, and 
they should be a part of this broader economic development 
strategy. We know that there will be millions of jobs created. 
There will be thousands of new businesses created and many 
millionaires made in this transition, and it would be my hope 
and it would be my honor, if I am confirmed, to work closely 
with the ecosystem of entrepreneurs out there who are just 
waiting for federal dollars to seed their businesses. Thank you 
so much for your leadership, and I would look forward to 
working with you on this effort.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. And as is so often the case 
here, I don't have enough time for all my questions, but I will 
submit the questions to both Dr. Light and Mr. Walsh.
    I think you have both done more than adequate jobs of 
presenting all the potential you bring to these jobs. Ms. 
Baker, you as well, and Ms. Stone-Manning, I look forward to 
seeing you in Colorado once you are confirmed and working 
together on a bunch of these issues.
    So thank you all. I yield back to the----
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Hickenlooper.
    Senator Hoeven.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member.
    Ms. Stone-Manning, good to see you. Thanks for visiting 
earlier, by phone. If confirmed, in regard to an earlier 
question by Senator Lankford, you, I think, answered well that 
public lands should be available for multiple use. Correct? You 
believe that to be the case?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Yes.
    Senator Hoeven. Yes. And if confirmed, are you willing, in 
regard to energy development, will you commit to resuming 
quarterly lease sales for energy development on federal lands?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I understand that the 
Department is currently reviewing the oil and gas program, and 
I am not there, so I am not privy to those conversations. If I 
have the honor of being confirmed, I look forward to being a 
part of those conversations with this Committee and folks on 
the ground to figure out the best path forward for energy 
development in the century we are sitting in.
    Senator Hoeven. Well, that goes to another question that 
Senator Lankford asked--that is, if something gets continually 
delayed, that's the same as not allowing it, and I am sure my 
colleague to my immediate right is going to share the same 
concern. I share that concern. Senator Lankford shared that 
concern. What about continuous delay? Are we going to see that?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, when I was the Director of the 
Department of Environmental Quality in Montana, I had a goal of 
providing certainty for folks, certainty for business, 
certainty for local communities, for the conservation 
community, and I was clear with people that I would take as 
transparent and open and timely an approach as possible and 
that no one would be surprised by the decisions that we made 
because everybody would be part of the decision-making along 
the way. I commit to you that we are going to work as 
efficiently as possible, as government should.
    Senator Hoeven. What impact on the environment would result 
from closing off access to our federal reserves and shifting 
global production to places like Russia, Saudi Arabia, and 
Venezuela, which have less stringent environmental regulations?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, the President has called us to 
work toward a clean and equitable future for our economy, and I 
think that future depends on being secure. And so that would be 
my approach, working with the Secretary, working with the 
President, to ensure that we provide and lead the world in a 
21st century energy economy.
    Senator Hoeven. Would you acknowledge that not having 
takeaway capacity for things like natural gas, meaning 
gathering systems and pipelines, actually is less 
environmentally sound than making sure that we have that 
transmission capacity so that we can get that product to market 
as safely as possible?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Yes, Senator. I understand the 
importance of that question, particularly to your state, and I 
would look forward to working with you on that issue.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
    Ms. Baker, if confirmed, will you commit to working with 
DOE's Office of Indian Energy and interested tribes to ensure 
tribal nations are able to continue developing their oil and 
gas and other energy resources?
    One of the tribes in our state, actually the Mandan, 
Hidatsa, and Arikara Nation, if they were a state, they would 
be like in the top ten oil and gas-producing states in the 
nation--and they do it very well. So are you willing to help 
empower tribes for all kinds of energy development, with good 
environmental stewardship, of course?
    Ms. Baker. Senator, thank you so much for that question. I 
have spent a decade working with indigenous communities all 
over the world, and what I have come to understand through that 
work is that no community is a monolith. Each community has its 
own hopes and dreams and its own vision of what it wants. I 
have also learned that consultation is key and really, you 
know, leaning into relationships with leaders in that community 
in order to advance objectives.
    And so, if confirmed, I would be honored to work with 
Wahleah Johns, who is the Director of the Office of Indian 
Energy, to really understand the complex array of issues that 
our indigenous communities around this country face.
    Senator Hoeven. I appreciate that answer.
    Also, how about carbon capture? So again, as we are doing 
these things, both on traditional and renewable energy, we want 
to lead the way in carbon capture. Are you willing to help work 
with us and our tribes on that?
    Ms. Baker. Senator, I would be honored to work with you and 
your office on this issue, if I were confirmed. I also want to 
highlight here that, again, there is no one-size-fits-all 
solution, and I know that many communities are really 
interested in carbon capture utilization and storage, and I 
would be delighted to work with you to understand who those 
communities are.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
    Ms. Baker. Thank you.
    Senator Hoeven. And just a final question for Mr. Walsh. If 
confirmed, will you commit to ensuring that we have regulatory 
certainty and predictability on matters before the Department? 
You have a lot of people out there trying to do a lot of 
things. If they get delayed forever, that sets them back. If 
they do not have regulatory certainty, they cannot do the 
things--including investment--all the kinds of things that 
create jobs and better environmental stewardship and everything 
else. So they need regulatory certainty. Will you commit to 
that?
    Mr. Walsh. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Hoeven. Okay, thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Hoeven.
    Senator Cantwell.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Walsh, I know you have heard about the Tri-Party 
Agreement and its role in ensuring the Department of Energy 
meets its legal and moral obligations to the Hanford cleanup. 
As Secretary Granholm and Deputy Secretary Turk confirmed in 
their confirmation hearings, cleaning up Hanford, one of the 
largest radioactive waste cleanups in the world, is a very top 
priority. And trust me, this is not something that can be 
easily done. So the Hanford budget is paramount in living up to 
the Tri-Party Agreement. Last year, the Department's own 
website manager at Hanford said DOE would need to spend $3.3 
billion in Fiscal Year 2021 to stay on track with the Tri-Party 
Agreement. So that is DOE's own assessment and yet, the 
President's budget for Fiscal Year 2022 does not match that.
    So the answer is that the Department of Energy is not only 
proposing to reduce the Office of River Protection by six 
percent--the entire request is about $900 million less than 
what the Department's own internal memo said was needed under 
the obligations of the Tri-Party Agreement. So what will you do 
as counsel to ensure the Department follows the law, and can 
you commit to meeting all the Tri-Party Agreement milestones?
    Mr. Walsh. Well, thank you for the question, Senator 
Cantwell.
    First off, let me say that I fully understand the 
importance and the urgency of the Department's efforts at 
Hanford and that you could be certain that, if confirmed, I 
will work closely with you and your staff and the officials in 
the State of Washington to do everything in my power to ensure 
that the Department meets its obligations. And with respect to 
the budget request, I was not privy to the considerations that 
went into the President's budget, but again, I look forward to 
working with you closely on those matters going forward, if 
confirmed.
    Senator Cantwell. So you will live up to the Tri-Party 
Agreement and advise the Department of Energy to do so?
    Mr. Walsh. Certainly. My view is that the Department should 
seek to meet all of its obligations under the Tri-Party 
Agreement and the consent decrees.
    Senator Cantwell. Okay. The only problem with your answer 
is just a little hesitation, so I hope you feel very firm in 
the words that you just uttered because that is what it is 
going to take, and so I appreciate it. It is a legally binding 
document. Lots of Secretaries of Energy argue with the State of 
Washington and others over it. Listen, we have the Tri-Party 
Agreement because the state is holding the Department of Energy 
accountable. And so this is not a State of Washington problem, 
this is a national problem. And the state is just holding the 
nation accountable for cleaning it up. That is why we have the 
agreement. Every once in a while, somebody tries to do it on 
the cheap, and it doesn't work. So I appreciate you committing 
to that.
    Dr. Light, I wanted to ask you about your thoughts on the 
United States continuing to lead the role in diversifying our 
energy sources, and how we do that at the international level. 
By the way, I very much support the U.S.-Israel Energy Policy 
Office, which is doing, I think, some great work on energy 
security. And as we can see from our recent pipeline event, we 
need all the security measures that we can get. But I think on 
battling climate--in 2020 the new capital investment in clean 
energy technologies totaled $500 billion. That is 2020. And in 
2030, that number is supposed to be in the multiple-trillions 
of dollars as a market opportunity.
    So to me, I want to capture that market opportunity. I want 
to make sure that we are not, you know--we are talking about 
this big competitiveness bill on the R&D side, and we are glad 
that we actually got some R&D dollar increases in there for 
DOE. The Chairman was instrumental in that discussion, and I 
very much appreciate his leadership on that. But what do we 
need to do to make sure that the United States can be a global 
leader in these international energy markets, which create 
millions of jobs?
    Dr. Light. Thank you for the question, Senator. I will give 
credit where credit is due, and the Trump Administration 
created the first ever Office of Market Development in the 
Office of International Affairs in the Department of Energy. 
This office was created in the early 1980s and didn't have an 
Office of Market Development. I intend to triple the size of 
it, if confirmed, and make sure that we have a team in the 
Department of Energy that is working every single day to help 
to expand our access to that burgeoning trillions-of-dollars 
market that is unfolding and getting bigger every single day.
    We need a whole-of-government approach on this as well. We 
have competitors out there in the world--China, Russia, 
others--who come in, they are able to not only, you know, build 
you a plant, but provide the labor. In the case of nuclear 
power, they will take the waste out for you. We don't have that 
capacity right now. We need to make sure that we have the 
Department of Energy working with the Department of State, 
working with Treasury, the Development Finance Corporation, the 
Export-Import Bank, USTDA, all of the array of things we have, 
but moving together, finding the strategic opportunities around 
the map and executing them.
    Senator Cantwell. And what would you say those three 
biggest opportunities are in?
    Dr. Light. In terms of regions of the world, ma'am?
    Senator Cantwell. No, no, just energy. You know, the 
market--how big the market opportunity is. What would you say 
are big opportunities for the U.S. to focus on?
    Dr. Light. We have a tremendous opportunity still in 
conventional renewables. So, we have countries, again, like 
India with enormous targets. Prime Minister Modi has a target 
of 450 gigawatts of installed renewable capacity by 2030, and 
we 
have a new partnership to do that. Number two--industrial 
decarbonization. So how do we sort of provide CCS and hydrogen 
solutions for things like steel, cement, chemicals? That is an 
enormous opportunity. Number three--in nuclear. The United 
States can compete with Russia, with China, with Korea, with 
other providers, France as well. Right now, in the Department 
of Energy, we are working on deals in Poland. We are looking at 
a deal in Romania. We have deals that are unfolding in 
Slovenia. There are all these countries around the world that 
want to play serious in nuclear, and we have the providers that 
can do that. And we are looking at billions of dollars in 
direct return to the United States in terms of benefit just 
with one of those plants built in one of those countries.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you. I am sorry I was over my time, 
Mr. Chairman, but I really do believe in this important point 
that the United States has a huge job opportunity, not just 
here at home, but internationally. But we have to get it right, 
and the fact that you mentioned CCS, nuclear, and renewables, 
they all go together. We should be able to get around the table 
on this agenda, just like we are on the EFA bill. We all ought 
to be able to get around the table and say this is the market 
opportunity that creates U.S. jobs.
    Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Now we have Senator Murkowski.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Just following on Senator Cantwell's comments there, Dr. 
Light, I might commend to you legislation that we have just 
recently introduced called the SEMI Act, the Strategic Energy 
and Minerals Initiative, which dovetails very neatly with what 
you have just outlined there and I would ask that you take a 
look at that.
    Dr. Light. Yes.
    Senator Murkowski. I want to direct my comments to you, Ms. 
Stone-Manning, and I will first start off by just 
acknowledging--I think you just mentioned, Dr. Light, that you 
give credit where credit is due--and I appreciate the recent 
actions of the Administration when it came to defending the 
Willow Project, located entirely within the National Petroleum 
Reserve-Alaska. That is going to be very, very, very important 
to our state moving forward. Another area that is going to be 
very important for our state moving forward is as it relates to 
the public land orders (PLOs). These are land entitlements 
from--basically from statehood. The Department has recently 
taken unilateral action to pause these pending PLOs. This not 
only impacts the commitment made at statehood, but also to our 
Native Alaska Vietnam Vets. Despite the promises of Secretary 
Haaland that she would engage in consultation on departmental 
actions that impact Native Americans and Alaska Natives, this 
decision was made without consultation.
    Again, I cannot emphasize enough the significance of these 
PLOs, and if you are confirmed as Director to the BLM, it is 
going to fall on you to rectify this wrong. I know that you 
have not been in place when this action was taken, but I 
certainly hope that you have been briefed on them. I would like 
you to explain to me your understanding of the recent PLO 
withdrawal revocation in the state.
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Thank you, Senator, for the question, 
and I appreciated our time a couple weeks ago and look forward 
to more if I have the honor of being confirmed.
    I need to start with a little bit about my background. I am 
the daughter, the sister----
    Senator Murkowski. I don't mean to be rude and not go into 
your background, but I have very limited time. Can you just 
share with me whether you think it is appropriate for the 
Federal Government to continue to withhold land to the State of 
Alaska that it is entitled to under the Statehood Act?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thank you--and stepmom of 
veterans and so, you do have my commitment to both follow the 
law and follow and honor our commitment to our veterans in this 
country.
    Senator Murkowski. Well, it is not just the veterans. And 
again, we are keying in on the veterans because that was 
really, to me, that was just a slap in the face to our Native 
veterans and their allotment, but that's a very small piece of 
the broader issue of these PLOs and the fact that, effectively, 
it has been determined that, after decades now, it is time to 
release these. And it was only under this unilateral action 
from the Secretary that now everything has been put ``on 
pause.'' So again, I am very concerned about not only the 
pause, but given your background with the National Wildlife 
Federation where you were serving as Vice President for Public 
Lands, you are working for an organization that, for years, has 
worked to prevent the sale and transfer of national public 
lands to state and private owners.
    So I look at that and then I look at this situation that 
you will have oversight of and that causes me deep concern.
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, that's fair, and if I have the 
honor to be confirmed, I understand that being the Director of 
BLM is a very different job than the work I have done at the 
National Wildlife Federation. And you have my commitment that I 
understand that the job is to follow the law and that the 
Federal Government has commitments to the State of Alaska. I 
understand that.
    Senator Murkowski. I appreciate what you have just said 
there with regards to following the law because current law 
mandates that two lease sales be held in the 1002 area of the 
Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). If confirmed as BLM 
Director, you will be the one responsible for holding the 
second lease sale by 2024, which is currently mandated by law. 
So I would ask for your commitment--your reaffirmation that you 
will intend to follow the law as it relates to these ANWR 
leases.
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I understand that the current 
leases are under litigation, and I expect, if I have the honor 
of getting there, that conversations will be informed by that 
for the second lease sale and again, generally speaking, you 
absolutely have my commitment to follow the law. That's the 
job.
    Senator Murkowski. Well, it is the law, and again, I will 
just repeat, the Secretary of the Interior, by law, shall offer 
a second lease sale under the oil and gas program under this 
section not later than seven years after the date of enactment 
of the Act. That's the law. That's the law. And litigation is 
going on, but this is the law, and so we would expect and 
certainly intend that you would follow that.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Senator Daines.
    Senator Daines. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I first want to begin by welcoming Tracy Stone-Manning to 
the hearing today. Tracy has worked in and around Montana for 
many years. For the past few weeks, I have heard feedback from 
a lot of Montana stakeholders, some good, some not so good, and 
I look forward to the discussions today to clarify your 
position on these important Montana issues.
    The Montana Conservation Voters ranked cancellation of the 
Keystone XL Pipeline as their top priority while you were on 
the board. The Keystone XL Pipeline would have been a carbon-
neutral, fair-wage labor project. Cancellation of the pipeline 
immediately cost us over 1,000 jobs and $60 million a year in 
tax revenue in the State of Montana, not to mention other 
indirect jobs and the economic devastation of these small, 
rural Montana counties. Has your opposition to the Keystone XL 
Pipeline changed?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thanks for the question, and 
it's an honor to be here with a fellow Montanan. The President 
has made his decision on the Keystone Pipeline, and I am not 
and should not second-guess him on that.
    Senator Daines. So you are still opposed to it, though? You 
were opposed to it before. You are opposed to it now?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, again, I am not going to 
second-guess the President.
    Senator Daines. I was asking about you though. You opposed 
it before. Do you still oppose it now?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I served on a board of an 
organization as a volunteer, and like many organizations that 
do many things, sometimes board members agree, sometimes they 
don't.
    Senator Daines. What safer or cleaner method would you 
propose to move oil and gas versus a pipeline?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Yes, Senator, I appreciate that 
question. I think that, you know, depending on the mode of what 
is being moved, pipelines have been shown to be safer to human 
communities. Of course, there are problems with pipelines 
with----
    Senator Daines. And lower carbon emissions as well.
    Ms. Stone-Manning [continuing]. Leaking and such. And you 
know, any time humans do development and move products around 
the planet, there are impacts. We just need to be smart about 
mitigating those impacts.
    Senator Daines. I wanted to talk for a moment here about 
sage grouse. We have seen unprecedented investments in 
proactive collaborative sage grouse conservation across the 
West. The Trump Administration worked to ensure federal land 
management plans were complementary to state plans. These 
efforts had the support of every western Governor. But you 
stated that you hope the court would strike down these plans. I 
would remind you the sage grouse is not listed under the 
Endangered Species Act, and therefore, states should and have 
taken a leading consideration. Is it still your position that 
the most recent sage grouse plan amendments should be rescinded 
either by the courts or the Administration?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thanks for the question. In 
2015, we had a remarkable thing happen. Westerners of all 
stripes came together and found agreement on these sage grouse 
plans. Governor Bullock and Governor Mead and Governor Sandoval 
and Governor Hickenlooper, all standing on a stage celebrating 
the fact that we had found agreement, and then the Montana 
State Legislature, backed with a $10 million investment to do 
our part. And my concern was that the Trump Administration had 
not given those plans time to work, and that had not honored 
that original deal.
    Senator Daines. So, it is still your position that they 
should be rescinded even by the courts or the Administration?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. I think that the 2015 plans needed to be 
given time to work.
    Senator Daines. Ms. Stone-Manning, in 2015, you authored an 
article that called the Rock Creek Mine ``philosophically 
abhorrent,'' to quote yourself. Rock Creek Mine would create 
300 full-time jobs and bring in $175 million in tax revenues. 
This project has been extensively researched, has a decades-
long permitting history, as you know, and has strong local 
support. While this mine is permitting through the Forest 
Service and Montana DEQ, I have heard concerns from the 
community that such a strong opposition as yours, against a 
Montana-led project, might be indicative of a larger bias 
against mining on public lands.
    My question is, is it still your position that Rock Creek 
Mine and similar mining projects are, ``philosophically 
abhorrent?''
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thanks for the question. And I 
hope that you would look to my track record as Director of the 
Department of Environmental Quality and my ability to work 
closely with industrial applicants and be fair and be 
transparent and to make sure that any development is able to 
follow the law.
    Senator Daines. Do you still agree though, that it is 
philosophically abhorrent? It was your--you put it on the 
record there. Do you still agree with that statement or do you 
rescind that statement?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I think many people were 
concerned about the idea of digging a mine under one of our 
first wilderness areas in the country.
    Senator Daines. So you still think it is philosophically 
abhorrent? Your words.
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator----
    Senator Daines. Have you talked to the folks up in Sanders 
County and Lincoln County about that?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I have spent long conversations 
with folks on the ground and they----
    Senator Daines. Yes, and did you tell them it is 
philosophically abhorrent?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. And I spent many conversations, I 
remember talking about getting school books to school kids, and 
we have a job to do as Montanans to create good-paying, family-
wage jobs that come from development that is going to take care 
of our environment. And at the time that I said that, I was 
concerned about some of the hydrological studies and what it 
would do to the lakes and the wilderness.
    Senator Daines. And as you studied it more, have you 
changed your opinion on that?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. I haven't seen the recent studies. It's 
been years.
    Senator Daines. Okay, all right.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Daines.
    And first, the Committee has received letters for several 
organizations supporting one or more of the nominations. I ask 
unanimous consent to enter those letters into the record at 
this point. And hearing no objection, it is ordered.

    [The letters mentioned appear after the nominees' responses 
to questions for the record, and begin on page 142 of this 
hearing document.]

    Senator Barrasso. Dr. Light, key points and key parts of 
Chinese solar panels are currently being manufactured in the 
province in China where the Muslim Uyghur minority is used in 
forced labor. A recent study from the United Kingdom, Sheffield 
Hallam University, found that forced labor permeates the entire 
supply chain of the solar panel industry. This has been broadly 
reported. Most solar modules rely on solar-grade polysilicon, 
and 45 percent of that is manufactured in the Uyghur region in 
China. It has also been established that child labor is used in 
the production of cobalt in the Congo. Cobalt is a key material 
in electric batteries. Demand for it is expected to rise 
sharply. There was an article in the Economist two weeks ago 
about whether they can do electric vehicle recyclable and the 
batteries and all of these things.
    But if confirmed, we are trying to figure--what will you be 
able to do to ensure that the value chain of solar panels and 
batteries and wind turbines and other technologies are not 
tainted with forced labor and child labor?
    Dr. Light. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
    This is a situation that concerns me gravely as it does 
you. It is absolutely appalling. The only good thing I can say 
is that it is good that we know what we are dealing with now. 
And so I think that the release today by the White House of 
this new report on supply chain is the first step of many steps 
that we have to do to respond to this. In fact, the Office of 
International Affairs of the Department of Energy led on the 
part of the report that deals with batteries, and then you, of 
course, had Department of Defense dealing with critical 
minerals and so on and so forth.
    So now we are getting more transparency of what the problem 
is, we're tracking not only the environmental impact of some of 
these supply chains, but obviously, also the human rights 
violations there. The two things that we have to do, sir, are, 
number one--we have to work with, at least from the perspective 
of the Office of International Affairs, we need to increase our 
domestic supply so that we are not relying on supply that is 
dirty, one way or the other that you look at it. Number two--we 
have to work with our allies to go on the offense, frankly, and 
that's the Congo case, where China has swooped in and taken 
about 30 percent--a slightly larger percentage of the owned 
cobalt reserves in the Congo than the Congo government owns 
themselves. And so we have to go on the offense on this in the 
same way that we are going to have to on all the other energy 
projects we have to look at around the world.
    Senator Barrasso. So then you agree with me that expanding 
domestic mining of critical minerals is going to make us less 
dependent on China and other foreign nations?
    Dr. Light. It will, sir, and it is something I look forward 
to working with your office on.
    Senator Barrasso. Mr. Walsh, you and a co-author published 
an extensive paper on electric transmission. I would like to 
call upon your expertise on that subject. I just finished Bill 
Gates' book on what happens with the climate and what we need 
to do in the long term, and he talks about the grid. You know, 
to achieve net-zero carbon emissions by 2050 with wind and 
solar generation, what Princeton University has said in their 
Net-Zero America report, that projects that the United States 
would need to increase U.S. transmission capacity by more than 
five times to be able to do what they are talking about doing. 
And I would note that the Princeton scenario is actually less 
aggressive than what the Biden Administration's goal is that 
the power sector be carbon free by 2035.
    So what facts do you know that suggest it is realistic to 
expect that so many electric transmission lines can be legally 
sited on anything like the timetable needed to meet the 
President's goal--and especially when we are not talking about 
trying to bury lines, which are not able to dissipate the 
heat--so we are talking about overhead lines, primarily, 
because of the size of the lines and the necessary amount?
    Mr. Walsh. Well, thank you for the question, Senator.
    It's a very important one, and I do share the view that 
siting more high-voltage, long-distance transmission will be 
essential for maintaining the resilient grid and the supply of 
affordable, clean energy nationwide. And you are exactly right 
to put your finger on the issue of permitting and challenges. 
That is a real problem. The Department has some ability to play 
a role in easing those challenges by coordinating with other 
federal agencies to streamline permitting processes, and, if 
confirmed, I would look forward to engaging in those efforts 
and working with your office.
    Senator Barrasso. So do you think Congress should be 
passing laws to speed the regulatory process so that these 
needed transmission lines can be built?
    Mr. Walsh. Quite possibly, Senator. I mean, I don't know 
that I could speak to the Department on pending legislation, 
but it sounds like a laudable goal and something that I would 
look forward to working with your office on.
    Senator Barrasso. Ms. Stone-Manning, the Bureau of Land 
Management manages livestock grazing on about 155 million acres 
of land in the western United States--Wyoming, Montana, lots of 
areas. This issue is deeply important in my home State of 
Wyoming. I was at our Wyoming Stock Growers Association, their 
annual summer meeting that was this past weekend in Sheridan, 
Wyoming. If confirmed as Director you would oversee this 
activity. Recently, I introduced a bill called the RANCH Act to 
promote resilient and healthy rangelands and effective grazing 
management across the West through the extension of grazing 
permits and adaptive management tools to better respond to 
extreme weather conditions and to fire.
    So please explain what your priorities would be for 
livestock grazing management, and what changes, if any, you 
would make to improve how BLM administers permits and leases 
for livestock grazing as an important multiple-use activity on 
our public lands?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, thank you for the question.
    A few years ago, I was visiting with a cattlemen's 
association that straddles the Idaho and Nevada state line and 
learned that some of them had permits that were 15 years out of 
date. And that's not government serving the people the way it 
needs to serve the people. So you would have my commitment, if 
I had the honor of being confirmed, of ensuring that we focused 
on that program and got people the tools they needed to do 
their jobs, to get updated permits into place, permits that 
brought into account people's understanding of the ground.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
    Dr. Light, in recent testimony before the Senate Energy and 
Natural Resources Committee, I asked Fatih Birol, who is the 
head of the International Energy Agency, whether U.S. 
leadership in oil and gas production was a good thing for the 
security of international energy markets, and his response was, 
yes, definitely yes. Do you agree with that, Doctor?
    Dr. Light. Completely agree.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
    Senator Marshall.
    Senator Marshall. My first question is for Dr. Light. We 
had a great visit, I appreciate that. You know, like you, I 
want to leave this world cleaner, healthier, and safer than I 
found it. I believe in using affordable clean energy. I believe 
that we can take traditional energies and make them more 
affordable and cleaner by innovation and technology. As I think 
about this world challenge that we have with our environment, I 
think probably the biggest predictor of the carbon footprint of 
this world is our world economy, a strong world economy, which 
could lead to infrastructure--and that leads me to a nation, an 
ally to the United States that you are very familiar with, and 
the opportunities, I think, for India to have natural gas and 
other energy resources as well.
    But how would you see your role in promoting the 
opportunities for natural gas in India, and any other thoughts 
on developing countries and how they could best manage their 
energy--affordable energy and clean energy as well?
    Dr. Light. Thank you, Senator Marshall. I very much enjoyed 
our conversation yesterday. I appreciate it.
    So yes, sir, India is one of the countries that I know 
best, probably the only country I know a little bit more about 
is the United States, and one of the great things that we did, 
as you know, sir, coming out of the President's Climate Action 
Summit, was create a new overarching energy and climate 
umbrella platform with India to try to help India to get to 
their 2030 goal of 450 gigawatts with installed renewable 
capacity. Now, I think if we can create the markets in India on 
abated natural gas, on abated coal, on nuclear, on hydrogen, 
right--they already have the targets there on renewables--then 
you can change the world, and the United States should be the 
biggest supplier for all of it.
    So I think that what we need to do is to work with the Modi 
government to make sure they can hit the targets that they have 
and empower them to hit even bigger targets, especially in the 
decarbonization of heavy industry.
    Senator Marshall. Thank you so much for that.
    And my next question is for Tracy Stone-Manning. Ms. 
Manning, it has come to my attention that you accepted a 12-
year personal loan based on your financial disclosures, and if 
you have been asked this, forgive me, it is hard balancing back 
and forth, but you took out a personal loan of between $50,000 
and $100,000 while you were working as the State Director for 
Senator Tester. And according to your disclosure, it looks like 
you received that at an interest rate of six percent, but the 
going rate for a consumer loan was 11 percent. Do you feel like 
that's some type of a conflict of interest to take out a 
personal loan when you are working for a United States Senator, 
and were you aware that the difference in the interest rate was 
significantly below the average?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I appreciate the question. 
Ethics are deeply important to me. Like many families in 2008, 
we got smacked by the recession, and a friend loaned us some 
money to make sure that we could get through it, and we came to 
terms and we honored the loan.
    Senator Marshall. Do you feel that you gained something by 
that, by not paying the standard interest rate, that you were 
given an interest rate less than the average consumer interest 
rate was then?
    Ms. Stone-Manning. Senator, I was grateful for the help 
from a friend.
    Senator Marshall. All right.
    Dr. Light, let's go back to you. What other opportunities--
we mentioned India, what other energy opportunities are there 
out there that would both help the United States economically, 
but also to make the world a cleaner place to be?
    Dr. Light. There are plenty. We have an abundance of 
opportunities out there, sir. As I said before, a $23 trillion 
opportunity, and that's the floor by 2030 if you unpack the 
different commitments that parties have made out there. For 
example, I think that there is an incredible array of 
opportunities in the transportation sector, the low-carbon and 
zero-carbon transportation sector throughout South America, if 
you unpack the commitments the different parties have made 
there under the Paris Agreement. We have an enormous 
possibility with high tech on the cooling side in the Gulf 
States. We have nuclear opportunities just all over the world 
at this point for those countries who decide to use nuclear 
energy as a safe part of their decarbonization strategy. We 
should continue supporting our hydro assets as well in those 
countries that have safe, secure, and reliable hydro assets. 
There really is no end to it.
    I think the only thing we need to do is to get the United 
States interagency together and figure out what our highest 
target opportunities are with a very clear eye on where other 
countries are going with dirtier technology. That is what China 
is doing now. The only way we can stop them is to get our skin 
in the game and offer something better.
    Senator Marshall. Could I have one more question, Mr. 
Chairman?
    Senator Barrasso. Please, go right ahead.
    Senator Marshall. If we have the time.
    I am going to go back to Dr. Light one more time here. I 
believe if the entire world would start using E-15, we would 
decrease tailpipe emissions by 40 or 50 percent. We have that 
technology today. It is not something that we are dreaming 
about.
    Dr. Light. Right.
    Senator Marshall. What are the opportunities for biofuels 
as far as trying to lower the carbon footprint of the rest of 
the world?
    Dr. Light. There is an enormous array of opportunities, 
scaled from conventional biofuels to the more advanced ones. 
And one of the things that I was very pleased to see is that 
last week at the combined ministerial meetings of the Clean 
Energy Ministerial and Mission Innovation processes, the United 
States got in, and it has become a leader on the biofuel 
platform there in the Clean Energy Ministerial forum.
    We also decided to co-lead with Denmark and others on an 
advanced shipping fuels initiative, where biofuels will have a 
very big opportunity there as well. So across the 
transportation spectrum, again, there is nothing but 
opportunity if we get out there and we get in front of it.
    Senator Marshall. Thank you. I look forward to working with 
you, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Senator Marshall.
    I want to thank all of you and congratulate all of the 
nominees for today. We appreciate you being here with us this 
morning, your responsiveness to our questions and concerns, and 
your willingness to take on these important jobs.
    Members are going to have until 6:00 p.m. tomorrow to 
submit written questions for the record, and we ask that you 
get back to us very quickly with those responses.
    With that, the Committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:09 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

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