[Senate Hearing 117-21]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-21
LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON S. 283, NATIONAL CLIMATE BANK ACT
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON CLEAN AIR,
CLIMATE, AND NUCLEAR SAFETY
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
APRIL 27, 2021
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
___________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
44-775 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021
COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming, Chairman
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont Virginia
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island Ranking Member
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama
MARK KELLY, Arizona JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
ALEX PADILLA, California ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
JONI ERNST, Iowa
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
Mary Frances Repko, Democratic Staff Director
Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
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Subcommittee on Clean Air, Climate, and Nuclear Safety
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts, Chairman
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma Ranking
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont Member
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS. Wyoming
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois RICHARD SHELBY. Alabama
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
ALEX PADILLA, California ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware (ex JONI ERNST, Iowa
officio) LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
Virginia (ex officio)
C O N T E N T S
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Page
APRIL 27, 2021
OPENING STATEMENTS
Markey, Hon. Edward, U.S. Senator from the State of Massachusetts 1
Inhofe, Hon. James, U.S. Senator from the State of Rhode Oklahoma 2
Van Hollen, Hon. Chris, U.S. Senator from the State of Maryland.. 4
WITNESSES
Hundt, Hon. Reed, Chairman and CEO, Coalition for Green Capital.. 7
Prepared statement........................................... 10
Response to additional questions from Senator Carper......... 24
Andrade, M. Duanne, Chief Strategic and Financial Officer, Solar
and Energy Loan Fund........................................... 28
Prepared statement........................................... 30
Bell, Hon. Rusty, Commissioner, Campbell County, Wyoming......... 80
Prepared statement........................................... 83
Response to additional questions from Senator Carper......... 86
Isaac, Hon. Jason, Director, Life: Powered, A Project of the
Texas Public Policy Foundation................................. 88
Prepared statement........................................... 90
Response to additional questions from Senator Carper......... 95
ADDITIONAL MATERERIAL
Statement of American Enterprise Institute....................... 104
Testimony of:
Hon. Debbie Dingell.......................................... 114
Ajulo E. Othow, Esq.......................................... 134
Alaska Power Telephone Company............................... 137
Letter from:
Values In Actioin Sealaska................................... 141
Ucore Rare Metals Inc........................................ 143
King Cove Alaska............................................. 145
Mike Craft, Alaska Environmental Power LLC Managing Partner.. 147
City of Pelican.............................................. 148
Southfork Hydro.............................................. 149
Alaska Power and Engineering................................. 151
Viking Lumber Company, Inc................................... 152
Report from Goldman School of Public Policy...................... 156
Testimony from Connecticut Green Bank............................ 194
EESI Environmental and Energy Study Institute.................... 199
Testimony of Mary Templeton President and CEO of Michigan Saves.. 253
Statement of Materials for Accordion Folder/Background for TC.... 256
Letter from NRDC National Resource Defense Council............... 259
Statement from Green Banks State Local and Tribal Government..... 261
NREL National Renewable Energy Labratory, Renewable Electricity
Futures Study.................................................. 264
Princeton University Net Zero America Interim Report............. 319
Statement of RMI Energy Transformed.............................. 664
Americans Jobs Plan: Fact Sheet.................................. 695
Report of Leaders Summit on Climate.............................. 722
Analysis from A Verisk Business Wood Mackenzie................... 729
E2 Business Leaders Letter of Support for S. 283................. 736
LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON S. 283, NATIONAL CLIMATE BANK ACT
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TUESDAY, APRIL 27, 2021
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Environment and Public Works,
Subcommittee on Clean Air, Climate, and Nuclear Safety,
Washington, DC.
U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works
Subcommittee on Clean Air, Climate, and Nuclear Safety
Washington, DC.
The committee, met, pursuant to notice, at 2:48 p.m. in
room 406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Edward Markey
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Senators Markey, Carper, Inhofe, Lummis, Boozman,
Ernst.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. EDWARD MARKEY,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS
Senator Markey. I am very pleased to call this subcommittee
to order for a legislative hearing on S. 283, the National
Climate Bank Act. Thank you to my Ranking Member, Senator
Inhofe, and to the Chairman and Ranking Member of the Committee
on Environment and Public Works, Senator Carper, who has joined
us, and Senator Capito, who I think is going to join us, as
well. I want to thank them for their invaluable partnership in
giving us this opportunity to hold this hearing and for joining
us today.
It is my pleasure to welcome my colleagues on the
subcommittee, as well as our witnesses, to a discussion of the
National Climate Bank Act, which would create and capitalize a
national climate bank, also known as a clean energy and
sustainability accelerator. The dangers, disasters, and damages
of the climate crisis are no longer hypotheticals. The climate
crisis has fully arrived, and we have both an imperative and an
opportunity to act to protect the economy, preserve American
lives, create new jobs, and establish the United States as a
global leader in a clean energy future. The legislation we will
discuss today, the National Climate Bank Act, provides a
practical and economic solution to all of those problems. It
puts people to work. It helps rebuild homes, schools, and
communities. It tackles the climate crisis, and it has
environmental and economic justice at its core.
This legislation, which has bipartisan support in the
House, would leverage new private investments, support local
solutions tailored from local problems, buildupon a model with
an existing track record of success, and will ensure that no
community is left out of the clean energy future.
There are projects in every community that need to get done
now. Homes need new roofs, new windows, new heating systems.
Communities with abandoned mines and degraded lands need money
to rebuild, reforest, and start their economies. Industries
need funding for efficiency and decarbonization technologies,
and carpenters and roofers and electricians and painters need
work now in our Country, and every State, city, and town is
best situated to develop their own set of priorities for their
own sets of problems.
That is why the National Climate Bank is so important. It
would use proven techniques to provide funding for existing
green banks, help start new green banks, and support direct
investments into critical projects.
The National Climate Bank Act would provide financial
support for a range of projects, but would particularly
prioritize helping communities that have been harmed by the
retirement of carbon-heavy assets. With a National Climate
Bank, communities can set up their own green banks to fund
local projects, so in turn, directly to the National Bank for
investments, credit enhancements, or other financial support.
The National Climate Bank helps public money go further,
with more than $7 of private capital leverage for each public
dollar. Let me say that again: $7 of private capital unleash
for every $1 of public investment. That means more local
projects, more local jobs, and more clean energy benefits,
without more financial risk.
The National Climate Bank would prioritize projects to
create jobs and serve low-income, minority, distressed, or
rural communities, with a 40 percent minimum proportion of
investment that would go to disadvantaged communities facing
climate impacts. With a National Climate Bank, we can create
more than four million blue-collar jobs. Four million blue-
collar jobs, unleashing an economic revitalization in areas
that need it, creating new careers and supporting local
communities for decades to come.
I look forward to discussion of the details of this bill. I
just think it holds enormous promise for ensuring that people
in our Country, blue-collar workers, can point to a future that
is more promising than anything that we have right now.
Let me turn to recognize the Ranking Member of the
subcommittee, my friend from Oklahoma, Senator Inhofe.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES INHOFE,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA
Senator Inhofe. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like
to welcome our panel for the first Clean Air Subcommittee
hearing of the 117th Congress. I would like to give a special
thanks to Mr. Isaac and Commissioner Bell for joining us today.
Before I discuss my thoughts on the Chairman's bill, I
would like to say that I have known my colleague from
Massachusetts for many years. We have served together.
Actually, we don't agree on anything, but we love each other.
We have had a very close relationship for a long time, and he
is a true liberal, and while we disagree, I do have respect for
him.
I look forward to working, just as we have effectively with
other Democrats. I always got along so well with Senator
Barbara Boxer when I chaired this committee, and we got things
done.
In fact, we used to have the meeting over at Mitch
McConnell's office at 12:15 every Tuesday. All the chairmen
would get together, and when it came my turn, I would say, now
from the committee that actually gets things done, and we did
them. We accomplished a lot of things together, and I say the
same thing with Chairman Reed, the Armed Services Committee.
Now, I have serious concerns about the bill that we are
discussing today. Sadly, it appears that the National Climate
Bank Act may be phase one of Democrats' far-left climate
agenda, the end goal, of course, being the Green New Deal. We
all know the Green New Deal seeks to end our way of life as we
know it: abolish fossil fuels, air travel, control how much
beef we eat.
This bill creates a federally funded D.C.-based climate
bank solely focused on funneling $100 billion of taxpayer's
dollars into green projects that are favored by Washington
Democrats. While there are many issues with the bill, the
bottom line is we simply don't need it. The bill's own findings
indicate that in 2018 alone, there was over $100 billion
invested in renewable energy and energy efficient projects.
Furthermore, the bill does not take into account that the
Department of Energy's loan program office is flush with cash,
with more than $40 billion in loans and loan guarantees for
energy projects. Even President Biden's $2 trillion slush fund
for all things infrastructure plan devotes less than $30
billion for a carbon bank. That is less than 2 percent, clearly
not a real priority, and that says a lot.
Second, let's talk about who controls the money in the
bank: Washington activists. The Bank's Board of Directors would
be handpicked by the President of cabinet officials in this
Administration. A seat is given to the director of the
unaccountable CFPB. That is a far cry from the nonpartisan or
bipartisan standard for Federal boards and commissions we have
today. This Board would likely be used to reward political
allies of Washington Democrats at the expense of the taxpayer
dollars.
Worse, nothing in this bill prevents the Bank from being
used as a slush fund for billionaires and other politically
connected Democrats.
Finally, this bill places coal country in its crosshairs.
It establishes a Cash for Carbon program to force the closure
of reliable coal-fired power plants and even clean natural
gasfired power plants as well. That would be devastating to
communities across America, including my State of Oklahoma and
Gillette, Wyoming, where our witness, Commissioner Bell,
resides.
The winter vortex from February reminded everyone that
renewables alone won't keep the lights on; we need coal and
natural gas. I could go on, but the simple fact is, we
shouldn't risk taxpayer dollars in loans to well-connected
industries to the left. Other than that, it sounds like a good
bill.
[Laughter.]
Senator Inhofe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Markey. Thank you, my friend, so much, for that
optimistic, forward-looking opening.
May I add, as well, Senator Carper, to the list of chairmen
who are very productive in working together in a bipartisan
fashion, and that would be my hope on this legislation as it is
all unveiled and fully understood.
Toward that goal, we begin with our first witness, Senator
Chris Van Hollen, from the State of Maryland, with whom I have
partnered in the drafting of this legislation, and who has
always been ultimately a pragmatist in this legislative
process, so Senator Van Hollen, whenever you feel comfortable,
please begin.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MARYLAND
Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Chairman Markey. Let me
start by thanking you and Ranking Member Inhofe, Senator Ernst,
and all the members of the subcommittee for holding this
hearing.
I am pleased to be joined by the Chairman of the Committee,
Senator Carper. In fact, I am pleased to join all of you as a
proud alumnus of the Environment and Public Works Committee and
as the coauthor with Chairman Markey of the National Climate
Bank Act.
I believe we have a duty in our Country to avoid the
ongoing rising harm and disruption caused by huge emissions of
greenhouse gases. The costs of doing nothing about climate
change are real and staggering. But rather than focusing solely
on the costs of inaction, we should also focus on the
opportunities for action, opportunities to build a stronger
economy and generate millions of new home-grown, good-paying
jobs of the type that Senator Markey described, that put people
to work addressing this urgent crisis.
The bottom line is this: a $100 billion Federal investment
in a National Climate Bank, also known as a Clean Energy
Accelerator, would create four million American jobs in 4
years. Put simply, we need a National Clean Energy Accelerator
to put Americans to work at the cutting edge of a clean energy
economy.
Our global competitors certainly know the economic stakes.
Every day, China pours more and more money into clean energy in
a push to corner the market. It is part of both their Made in
China 2025 plan and their most recent 5-year plan approved just
this March. Earlier this month, China's National Energy
Administration announced that it intends to increase solar and
wind power from 9.7 percent of the Country's total power
consumption in 2020 to 16.5 percent by 2025. That is about a 25
percent jump in a short time from where they are today.
By contrast, in the United States, wind and solar currently
account for a mere 3.8 percent of our total energy consumption.
As they expand their capacity in China, they will also export
it to the world, generating more jobs for China. If we don't
get into this game more seriously, we will fall further and
further behind on clean energy, just as we did with 5G
technology.
Our own National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and
Medicine projected in February, a few months ago, that we will
need to mobilize $2 trillion in clean energy investments over
the next 10 years to meet our climate goals. To achieve that
goal, they, our National Academies of Sciences, recommend that
we create a National Clean Energy Accelerator, exactly what is
being proposed in this bill. An Accelerator would be a magnet
that attracts billions of dollars of private capital to put
Americans to work building a cleaner energy economy.
In fact, it is estimated that for every $1 we put into this
Accelerator, we will draw at least $3 to $5 of private
investment, and as the Chairman said, up to $7 per dollar of
public, and $7 of private to match the public dollar
investment. This is a public-private partnership with a great
multiplier effect, and it will give pioneering companies and
entrepreneurs the boost they need to get over the finish line.
We also know that this model works because it is already
working at the State and local level. Years ago, I introduced a
bill to create a Green Bank to stablish exactly this kind of
Clean Energy Accelerator. The proposal was included in the
American Clean Energy and Security Act, also known as the
Waxman-Markey Bill, thank you for your leadership there, which
passed the House in 2009. While the Waxman-Marley Bill did not
make it out of the Senate, the idea of establishing Green Banks
caught fire in different parts of the Country and helped launch
the Coalition for Green Capital, which you will hear from
today. In fact, Mr. Chairman, the States of Louisiana, Ohio,
Florida, Maryland, and Hawaii, very different States, all have
a climate bank, and they now exist in over 37 States and the
District of Columbia and are supported by Governors of both
parties.
While they are generating important investments in clean
energy technology, they cannot be brought to scale without this
National Bank to achieve our national goals, so that is why we
need to do this at the Federal level. We can help turbo-charge
private investment, fortify our energy grid, and create
millions of clean energy jobs, including in those communities
where fossil fuel plants have closed. Forty percent of the
investments made by our proposed Clean Energy Accelerator would
be directed to underrepresented groups to ensure that
historically disadvantaged communities are not locked out of
the transition.
President Biden believes in this vision, too, and he has
included Green Energy Accelerator in his American Jobs Plan.
Colleagues, I urge you to seize this opportunity to join with
me, Senator Markey, and Senator Carper and bipartisan leaders
around the Country to support a National Clean Energy
Accelerator.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Markey. Great. Thank you, Senator Van Hollen. Thank
you so much for all of your leadership, and your testimony
reflects the fact that you are an alumnus of the Environment
Committee, so thank you so much for your great leadership in
this Congress.
Now, let me turn to our second panel of witnesses. I am
very pleased to have Hon. Reed Hundt, chairman and CEO of the
Coalition for Green Capital joining us today. Mr. Hundt has
worked on these issues for many years, so we thank you for your
expertise with the subcommittee today.
We are also fortunate to have with us M. Duanne Andrade,
the chief strategic and financial officer of the Solar Energy
Loan Fund joining us this morning. She knows what it means
through personal experience to implement a green bank and
deliver benefits to real people, so we welcome you today. Now,
I would like to recognize Senator Lummis to introduce
Commissioner Bell, who hails from her home State of Wyoming.
Senator Lummis, if you are with us.
Senator Lummis. Thank you, Chairman Markey. It is my great
pleasure to introduce Campbell County Commissioner Rusty Bell
to our subcommittee. Commissioner Bell was born and raised in
Gillette, Wyoming, where he and his wife, Toni, have raised
their two sons. Currently, Rusty serves on the Wyoming County
Commissioner's Association, and he is on the Executive
Committee, chairs the Revenue Committee, and is very a very
active County Commissioner in the State of Wyoming. He was
nominated to serve as Chairman of his Board of County
Commissioners in 2017 and 2019. He has been a tireless fighter
and champion of his county, Campbell County, in Cheyenne, our
State capital, and now, here in Washington, DC.
He happens to have just opened an ax throwing
establishment, too, called Axe House, with a marketing tagline
of ``let's bury the hatchet,'' which is a great tagline to
bring with you to Washington. So I am really pleased, Mr.
Chairman, to introduce one of Wyoming's finest, Commissioner
Rusty Bell.
Senator Markey. Thank you, Senator, and welcome, Mr. Bell.
Finally, I am going to turn to Senator Inhofe to welcome
Hon. Jason Isaac, the director of Life:Powered, A Project of
the Texas Public Policy Foundation.
Senator Inhofe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my pleasure
to introduce Hon. Jason Isaac, the director of Life:Powered,
which is A Project of the Texas Public Policy Foundation. Jason
is a fourth-generation Texan and a former State representative
from the Texas hill country. He has dedicated much of his life
to public service. Since 2018, he has led Life:Powered, which
is focused on expanding America's understanding of energy and
environmental policy. He is an expert in a variety of issues,
including one that we are discussing today. Welcome to our
committee, Jason, and thank you for being here.
Senator Markey. Wonderful. Let me just turn to our full
committee Chairman, Senator Carper.
Senator Carper. I will be very brief. I have a couple of
votes I am going to weigh in on, and one of them I spent a lot
of time, several of us spent a lot of time trying to get John
McCabe confirmed as Deputy Administrator of the EPA, so I am
going to slip out of here. Who mentioned bury the hatchet? Who
mentioned that? It was Cynthia, wasn't it?
Senator Markey. Cynthia Lummis.
Senator Carper. Senator Lummis? Yes. We, for a couple
hundred years in the State of Delaware, 2 days after the
election, we have had something called returns day. Winners and
losers come to Georgetown, Delaware, the southernmost county
seat of our State. We have a brunch together at our community
college, Delaware Tech. When the brunch is over, we all go
outside, winners and losers ride together in the same
horsedrawn carriage with their families.
We have thousands of people show up, they close the school
for kids to come, and they get autographs there. Sometimes we
have a President-elect show up, sometimes a Vice President-
elect shows up, and there is a short program, patriotic songs,
a couple of prayers.
Then we have this ceremony where we bury the hatchet. We
take a large aquarium, a glass aquarium that is full of sand
from Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, about half full. The party
leaders each take this big hatchet, and they grab it, they each
grab a piece of it, and they put it down in the sand, and they
cover it up with the other sand. They literally bury the
hatchet.
When it is all over, we have parties and people open up
their homes and their businesses and maybe have a libation or
two. By the end of the day, the pain of winning or losing, the
joy of winning, has kind of subsided, and we say OK, now, let's
figure out how to work the other good things in. It is a
wonderful, wonderful tradition.
I once explained to Frank Lautenberg about the tradition of
burying the hatchet in Delaware. He said, if we had that
ceremony in New Jersey, we would bury the hatchet, but it would
be in the back of the opponent's head. Fortunately, that is not
our tradition. I couldn't help but mention it.
Thank you very much for this hearing, and to both of our
leaders of this committee for your spirit of collaboration,
even if you don't agree on everything.
Senator Lummis. Thanks for telling that story, Mr.
Chairman.
Senator Carper. You are welcome.
Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that story.
When I was first elected as a State representative in
Massachusetts, where politics is a full-contact sport at all
times, after I won my first race, which I did not realize would
have such an event, I was 25 years old. There was something
called a crow supper, where the losers have to eat crow. But
they cannot speak at it, which in the hands of some winners,
gave the winners yet one more opportunity to humiliate the
loser and to use a hatchet in a way that Frank Lautenberg
described, rather than you.
So that was my introduction to politics, that crow supper,
and hopefully here, after the election of 2020, we will be able
to reflect the philosophy that Delaware brings to it, and we
can come together to work for the common good of the people of
the United States of America.
So, let me begin then, by turning to you, Mr. Hundt. We
welcome you, and again, whenever you feel comfortable, please
begin.
STATEMENT OF HON. REED HUNDT, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, COALITION FOR
GREEN CAPITAL
Mr. Hundt. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and it is an
honor to be with you and Ranking Member Inhofe, Committee Chair
Carper, Senator Ernst was here earlier, and Senator Lummis here
virtually. It is also a great pleasure to follow my home State
Senator, Chris Van Hollen.
I am here in the capacity of CEO and co-founder of the
Coalition for Green Capital. That is a non-profit that, for
more than a decade, has specialized in creating green banks.
Mr. Chairman, when you and Senator Van Hollen were in Congress
in 2009, you collaborated on the first version of legislation
creating a National Green Bank, and although that did not
happen then, that concept led to our nonprofit.
In turn, we have helped launch now 21 green banks in 15
States and the District of Columbia, and we are in talks to
create green banks in 22 more States. The most recent addition
to this bipartisan movement comes from Alaska, where Republican
Governor Mike Dunleavy introduced legislation to create a green
bank, and the dean of the House Congressman, Don Young,
endorsed the House version of your bill just a couple weeks
ago.
All of these green banks, the ones that exist and the ones
that are struggling to exist, are in desperate need of capital.
One of the purposes of your act is to provide $100 billion to
this nonprofit called the Clean Energy and Sustainability
Accelerator. One of the things it would do would be to
distribute capital to all of these green banks, and then find
people to create them in the remaining States.
The Accelerator would also partner with private firms to
invest more than $400 billion of combined public and private
money during the next 4 years, and then over 10 years, more
than $800 billion in building the new clean power platform.
That is the $1 public money plus $7 of private money that you,
Mr. Chairman, spoke about in your opening remarks.
These investments will create, on average for the decade, a
million jobs a year, and they will deliver one fifth of all the
emissions reductions needed for the United States to get to
zero by 2050. We make these predictions from experience as well
as economic analysis. Existing green banks have attracted that
much private money for every one of their public dollars.
In fact, the existing green banks have more than $20
billion in backlogged projects waiting for the Accelerator's
funding. Every one of those projects also is an indication of
the number of people who are waiting to be hired doing that
work.
This bill, you can see, is a big part of the American
response to the climate crisis. To paraphrase the legendary CEO
of Intel, Andy Grove, bad countries are destroyed by crises.
Good countries survive them. Great countries are improved by
them. The United States is a great Country, and facing this
crisis, we only have to remember who we are and how we can
improve.
Since our founding, we have trusted technology and
investment to transform our Country for the better over and
over again, and our will to change enables us to achieve the
five goals necessary for winning the climate war in the next 15
years. Wind and solar power have to increase their market share
by six times. High-voltage lines have to link offshore
windbreak plains and desert solar to every distribution
utility. Battery storage has to be installed strategically in
the grid. Heavily driven vehicles have to be powered by
electric motors, and last, the transition from carbon to clean
has to be true.
That is the word used by the United Mine Workers of
America. A true transition delivers not just clean power, but
justice to communities harmed by pollution, hit by job loss,
and cut out of decades of gains enjoyed by the rest of the
Country. That is why, in your bill, 40 percent of the money
would go specifically to low to moderate-income communities
impacted by the legacy of the carbon platform and at risk
because of the transition.
Andy Grove also said, in order to build anything great, you
have to be an optimist, and we can be optimistic about building
this great new clean power platform because a quarter of a
century ago, we transformed the system just as longstanding,
complex, and according to some, resistant to change. I am
talking about the communications platform, that in 15 years
changed from analog to digital, from wiring to wireless, from
voice to data.
It was public action and private investment that
accelerated that transition. We led the world in that change,
and Americans on every rung of the economic ladder benefited.
Now we have the chance to do something just as hard, certainly
as important, and we don't have a moment to lose. Fortunately,
we are a Country of optimists. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Hundt follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Hundt, very much.
Our second witness, again, is Ms. Andrade. You are
recognized, so whenever you are ready.
STATEMENT OF M. DUANNE ANDRADE, CHIEF STRATEGIC AND FINANCIAL
OFFICER, SOLAR AND ENERGY LOAN FUND
Ms. Andrade. Good afternoon, Chairman Markey, Ranking
Member Inhofe, and members of the committee. It is a great
honor to be here with you today in this important hearing.
My name is Duanne Andrade, and I am the Chief Financial and
Strategic Officer for Florida's green bank, the Solar and
Energy Loan Fund known as SELF. We are based in Fort Pierce,
Florida and operate statewide and have small pilots in South
Carolina, Alabama, and Georgia.
I am here today as a witness to the benefits that can be
achieved through the passage of Senate Bill 283, the National
Climate Bank Act.
Eleven years ago, the St. Lucie County Commission led by
Commissioner Doug Coward created SELF with a $3 million grant
from the Department of Energy that was embedded in the 2009
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act after the housing market
crisis. Today, SELF is an independent, certified, non-profit
Community Development Finance Institution, otherwise known as
CDFI, and a founding member of the American Green Bank
Consortium.
Three years after SELF was founded, I joined the
organization, and a few years later, I am happy to say that the
founder, Doug Coward and I, got married. Because we were
struggling too hard to keep SELF afloat, we decided to join
forces, and now we co-lead the organization as husband and
wife.
Prior to joining SELF, I worked for many years in
development finance. This is where I first experienced the
power that innovative financing models have to unlock economic,
environmental, and social benefits, especially in under-served
communities. An important lesson learned was that the financial
systems relying on credit scores and traditional underwriting
methods leave too many people behind. They do not gauge or
capture the true credit worthiness of LMI communities.
SELF's mission is to rebuild and empower underserved
communities, providing access to affordable, innovative
financing for sustainable property improvements. Simple. We
make loans, unsecured loans, for residential energy efficiency,
clean energy, and resilience projects. Roofs, windows, air
conditioners, basic things. Mostly, we do this to LMI
homeowners, but our innovation in the space has been to approve
loans based on ability to repay, regardless of credit scores.
These small loans are helping people save on energy bills,
build equity, increase safety, health, quality of life, and
advanced financial inclusion. Forty-two percent of all U.S.
households are low to moderate income. These are the average,
working-class families who mostly live in older homes that are
more likely to be inefficient, have high energy burdens, and
need structural upgrades to withstand climate impacts.
These average, working-class people turned out to be our
unsung heroes during the COVID-19 pandemic. They are our
teachers, our nurses, our first responders, grocery store
workers, janitors. This is America. Shouldn't they be able to
afford healthy, safe, climate-resilient homes, especially in a
developed country?
SELF and all green banks also foster jobs. We have a
network of over 600 contractors who use our financing. For
example, Sea Coast Air Conditioning, a mom-pop shop in Fort
Pierce, Florida has done over a million dollars in new business
with our financing, specifically in LMI communities.
I would like to introduce you also to some of our clients.
I don't know if you can see on the screen. Meet Pamela Turner,
a U.S. veteran. Are you able to see the image? No? Well, Pamela
Turner is a U.S. veteran, single mother of four, cancer
survivor. She could not get a loan to replace her roof that was
leaking, had buckets around her house, mold was growing, her
children were unhealthy and unsafe. Nobody would give her a
loan.
A contractor brought her to us. We were able to approve her
for a loan to fix her roof, and she got our lowest-cost loan,
despite her poor credit. Today, she is enjoying safety, but
also, she has been able to gain access to insurance, and she is
also rebuilding her credit.
I am sorry you can't see this, because another example
would be Carol, a widow recovering from back surgery. Her A/C
goes out; it is 102 degrees, sweltering heat in Florida, and
nobody will give her a loan because her husband who passed away
had all of the credit. She had none. She comes to us; we are
able to give her a loan, a low-cost loan, to get a
highefficiency air conditioner that she could afford. That is
the picture showing her receiving that loan.
So, just to wrap up, SELF has done $17 million in loans, 74
percent of those for low and moderate income families. Our
average default rate is less than 2 percent.
However, after 10 years of arduous work, we still have only
tapped into less than 1 percent of the potential market that
needs our services. A National Climate Bank would help SELF and
other green banks across the Nation catalyze billions of
dollars in investments to rebuild our communities, uplifting
our everyday heroes, both workers and small businesses with
sustainable, long-term benefits.
This is not asking for charity. We are asking you to make a
sound and impactful investment to revitalize and rebuild our
Country and pave the way into the future. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Andrade follows:]
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Senator Markey. Thank you very much for your testimony, and
now Commissioner Bell, if you can hear us, please begin.
STATEMENT OF HON. RUSTY BELL, COMMISSIONER, CAMPBELL COUNTY,
WYOMING
Mr. Bell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Chairman Markey and
Ranking Member Inhofe, and Senator Lummis, thank you for the
nice introduction.
Also, Senator Carper, thank you for the bury the hatchet
story. I will be using that.
I am Rusty Bell. I am a member of the Board of County
Commissioners in Campbell County, Wyoming, located in
northeastern Wyoming. I am currently serving my third year of
my second term as a member of the board. Thank you for the
opportunity to talk to you about S. 283, the National Climate
Bank Act, and its potential impact on my county, Campbell
County, Wyoming, and the citizens.
Campbell County encompasses about one-tenth of 1 percent of
the entire land mass of the United States, yet we produce
approximately seven quadrillion BTUs of energy annually,
providing from one county nearly 10 percent of the entire
Country's energy demand. Most of that demand takes form in
lowsulfur coal from the Powder River Basin. Wyoming produced
about 39.2 percent of the U.S. coal in 2019, with two of the
largest mines, North Antelope/Rochelle and Black Thunder, both
located in Campbell County, having produced 22 percent of that
total. Every single day, trains containing 130 cars filled with
coal depart my county filled with Wyoming coal so that your
constituents can safely and affordably turn on their lights and
heat. Campbell County coal is what keeps the grid reliable.
According to the U.S. Geological Survey, there are
approximately 25 billion tons of economically recoverable coal
resources in Campbell County.
In addition to our abundant coal resources, Campbell County
is also Wyoming's No. 1 producer of oil, producing over 19
million barrels of oil in 2020, which was enough to account for
almost 23 percent of total Wyoming production. We also produced
over 84 million Mcf of natural gas and are a leading producer
of uranium though in situ mining. When you talk about energy
and power generation, Campbell County really is all about ``all
of the above.'' In addition to our abundant fossil fuel
resources, we also have some of the best wind potential in the
Nation.
Gillette, our county seat, is known as the energy capital
of the Nation for very good reason. However, our community has
been significantly impacted by declining production of coal and
drops in oil production. Production of Powder River Basin Coal
in Campbell County increased steadily from the 1980's through
2008. The 1970's and 1980's were boom times in Campbell County
as the opening of large surface coal mines, as a result of the
Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act of 1977, SMCRA, and
the passing of the Clean Air Act, made Campbell County's
lowsulfur, sub-bituminous coal very attractive for power
generation.
Though we increased steadily from the 1980's through 2008
to a record production of 446 million tons per year that year,
we have also seen our production fall off very quickly in the
past couple of years, with calendar year 2020 production of
coal in Campbell County amounting to approximately 210 million
tons, more than a 50 percent drop.
Our population of approximately 46,000 has grown resilient
to the rise and fall of energy prices affecting our lives, but
we have never been as heavily impacted as recently. The
majority of Campbell County's budget and the budget for our
schools is derived from property taxes and ad-valorem taxes,
which are property taxes assessed by the county on the value of
produced minerals. In Campbell County, upwards of 70 percent in
some years and as high as 90 percent in other years of our
assessed valuation is attributed to mineral production.
Campbell County's 2014 assessed valuation, driven by high
oil prices for most of that year, was nearly $46.2 billion. Our
assessed valuation for 2020 was $4.2 billion, based upon 2019
production. This 32 percent decrease in assessed valuation,
which equated to a 32 percent decrease in ad valorem taxes, has
been further compounded by a nearly 50 percent drop in sales
tax collection.
Our county was fortunate that we were able to adjust to
this drop through proactive planning, savings, no debt, and
sound fiscal policy. However, our projections for 2020
production in preparing for our Fiscal Year 2021-2022 budget is
$3.2 billion, a $1 billion-dollar drop.
Though Wyoming's schools are set up in a way that revenues
are redistributed between school districts so that all Wyoming
kids receive a quality education, the Wyoming K-12 system is
running at about a $300 million dollar deficit following the
legislative session that just ended. Fossil energy funds the
Wyoming education system.
I would encourage the committee to consider the impacts of
Sections 5245(f) and (g) on my community and in the
implementation of Section (h) pertaining to the prioritization
of projects. Campbell County and Wyoming, who have both
benefited from historically strong mineral economies, are both
aware of the conversation surrounding emissions and carbon.
The State of Wyoming has invested $15 million in the
Integrated Test Center at Dryfork Power Station Plant in
Gillette, has partnered with the XPrize to use this facility to
find beneficial uses for power plant flue gases. The XPrize
recently announced their winners, which included CarbonBuilt, a
team from UCLA that demonstrated its technologies at the ITC.
Dryfork Power Station also is home to Carbon Safe Carbon
Capture Project.
Campbell County intends to continue fully developing our
existing mineral resources. We are also looking to the future,
recognizing we need to find new uses for our existing resources
and new ways to put people to work.
Additionally, because of the significant amount of tax
revenues the county generates from mineral extraction
activities, for many of which the long-term opportunities are
being threatened, proactively addressing economic development
and looking for option to retrain our work force are essential.
Unfortunately, the money for these activities is mostly
nonexistent.
Campbell County not only leads in energy production, but
also conservation and reclamation practices. No ones in America
care more about the environment of Campbell County that the
residents of Campbell County. We breathe the air, we drink the
water, we ranch and farm the land. We have incredible
populations of wildlife in Campbell County, including pronghorn
antelope, deer, elk, sage grouse, and many birds of prey,
including bald and golden eagles and ferruginous hawks. No
energy development happens without these environmental factors
taken into account.
For these reasons, I would encourage the committee to not
forget communities who stand to be the most impacted by the
implementation of the proposed National Climate Bank Act look
at including or expanding the legislation to include
opportunities for economic development, retraining, and
research for new uses for our mineral resources. Examples like
the ITC could further develop to generate beneficial uses for
Campbell County's mineral resources, which have helped power
the U.S. for generations. We have been blessed with these
resources, and our citizens deserve the opportunity to continue
to efficiently and responsibly recover these American assets.
Chairman Markey, Ranking Member Inhofe, Senator Lummis, I
appreciate the opportunity to testify before you. I am prepared
to stand for any questions. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Bell follows:]
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Senator Inhofe.
[Presiding] Thank you very much.
Since the Chairman is down voting right now--oh, you were
gone. I didn't mean to leave you out. I thought you had already
gone. Go ahead. Mr. Isaac, you are recognized for your
statement.
STATEMENT OF HON. JASON ISAAC, DIRECTOR, LIFE:POWERED, A
PROJECT OF THE TEXAS PUBLIC POLICY FOUNDATION
Mr. Isaac. Thank you, Senator Inhofe. Thank you, Chairman
Markey and members of the committee. I am Jason Isaac, Director
of the Life:Powered Project at the Texas Public Policy
Foundation, a national initiative to raise America's energy IQ.
During the 8 years that I served in the Texas House of
Representatives, I served on the Environmental Regulation,
Energy Resources, and Economic Development Committees. I was
successful at passing legislation to further Texas
environmental leadership while promoting economic prosperity,
two things that go hand in hand.
The idea of a Federal Climate Bank has been proposed for
years, and the market has responded. Wall Street and global
financial firms and the Climate Action 100+ are colluding to
force companies they invest in to divest from fossil fuels,
denying financing and investment unless those energy businesses
kowtow to arbitrary and expensive emission reductions and to
prop up these financial institutions' massive investments in
green energy that, without government subsidies, would
otherwise fail. In reality, there already is a climate bank.
This climate cartel will prove a disaster for our entire
economy. Restricting financing to energy producers based on
political whims kill good-paying jobs, increase our cost of
living, and reduces the capital available to invest in the
energy technologies of the future. The less energy the United
States is free to produce, the more we and our allies are
forced to rely on hostile, unstable nations with lax
environmental and labor standards. This is harmful not just for
energy businesses, but also for each and every American.
We recently spoke with Mike Dunleavy, the Governor of
Alaska, whose State is having to invest its own money to
develop new Arctic oil and gas reserves because the major banks
will not invest there. In Texas, we have heard from numerous
energy producers that they are struggling to sustain and grow
their businesses because of banks refusing to finance them. The
level of collusion occurring within this energy discrimination
movement makes a free and competitive market nearly impossible,
and the government should certainly not engage in the same kind
of bully tactics.
Contrary to the narrative that our environment is bad and
getting worse, and that it is all our fault, America is a world
leader in environmental protection. We are the only highly
populated nation to meet the World Health Organization's
standards for safe air, and we have cut emissions of criteria
pollutants by 77 percent in the last 50 years. I have mentioned
to some of your colleagues that, of all the technology the
Chinese steal from us, it would be nice if they would utilize
our pollution control technology.
In southern California, ozone levels are 65 percent higher
due to Asian air pollution that makes its way across the
Pacific, and when it comes to climate change, the news is good.
The science suggests that climate will remain mild and
manageable.
You and I and everyone in this room are 99 percent less
likely to die in a climate-related disaster than our
grandparents were. Improved technology and reduced poverty,
both of which fossil fuels provide, affect our adaptability far
more than carbon dioxide emissions.
Eliminating U.S. fossil fuel consumption completely by
2030, doubling President Biden's proposal, would reduce global
average temperatures by less than two-tenths of a degree at the
end of the century.
Instead of fixating on carbon dioxide emissions, the
Federal Government should be focused on solving the real
problems facing people here and now. If ever there was a
crisis, it is global poverty. America and our vast energy
resources, produced more responsibly that anywhere else on
earth, hold the key to ending poverty as we know it.
The recent blackouts in Texas that resulted in at least 111
deaths should be a dire warning against even more
marketdistorting policies. The market responded to those
subsidies accordingly. Installation of wind and solar-generated
electricity, unreliable variable forms of generation, have
increased more than 200 percent in the last 10 years, while
reliable thermal generation has declined nearly 5 percent.
Now, the installed generation of the ERCOT Texas grid is 33
percent unreliable variable generation. On the day of the
blackouts, wind and solar provided just 8 percent of our
electricity on the grid while fossil fuels and nuclear provided
91 percent of our reliable electricity.
I urge the committee not to proceed with any further
consideration of a climate bank and instead focus on proposals
that protect the American people's tax dollars. Thank you for
your time.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Isaac follows:]
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Senator Inhofe. OK, thank you very much. In the absence of
our Chairman, I will go ahead with my questions, and I don't
know who else is on WebEx. Do we have others? OK, well, I will
go ahead and start.
Mr. Isaac, earlier, I laid out my concerns that this bill
lacks safeguards to prevent taxpayer dollars from subsidizing
investments in liberal billionaires and other
politicallyconnected individuals. We shouldn't be risking our
hard-working people's tax dollars for investment in electrical
vehicles or their charging stations for the residents of
coastal States. If coastal States want to prop up green banks
and subsidize their friends, then of course they can do it, but
Oklahomans shouldn't be subsidizing them and risk investments.
Mr. Isaac, is it possible the way the bill is written for
Elon Musk or some of his billionaire buddies to get funding for
their green ideas?
Mr. Isaac. Absolutely, sir, and that is one of the reasons
why I think people are fleeing California and moving to Texas
and moving to Oklahoma, incredible, unreliable electricity,
rolling outages were nothing new to them. Last August, when
they happened, they were certainly something new to Texas, and
that shouldn't be the case.
But there are some concerns about oversight, much like when
I was an elected official, wouldn't hire an ethics attorney
without any experience. It is certainly a concern for oversight
with the board for this particular piece of legislation.
Senator Inhofe. Yes, very good answer. Mr. Chairman, we
went ahead and started without you. Would you like to have me
complete my questions?
Senator Markey.
[Presiding.] No, please.
Senator Inhofe. All right, that is fine.
Then also to you, Mr. Isaac, if Wall Street is already
funding green projects to the tune of $100 billion a year,
won't a government program like this just fund the worst
projects that can't compete for private funding? Would that be
the case?
Mr. Isaac. Absolutely. When you look at what BlackRock is
doing, they have over $9 trillion in managed assets. When they
are part of this Climate Action 100+, it is really a cartel
that is colluding to force energy businesses to divest of their
business models for arbitrary reductions in emissions that
aren't even named in the act. The Climate Action 100+ manages
over $50 trillion in managed assets. That is a world leader.
Looking at BlackRock alone, if you just look at them, they
manage, if that were GDP, they would be the third largest
Country in the world, and they are just really 20 percent of a
Climate Action 100+ that is really looking to discriminate
against energy producers responsibly here in the United States,
arguably more responsibly than anywhere else in the world.
Senator Inhofe. Thank you.
Commissioner Bell, you are from Wyoming, and you know well
the benefits of coal, as you said in your testimony. This bill
seeks to close coal-fired power plants through its Cash for
Carbon Program. Commissioner Bell, will you speak to the
economic impact this plan would have on coal country? You are
coal country, and in a way, we are, too.
Mr. Bell. Certainly. Mr. Chairman, Senator Inhofe, thank
you for that. I think that is why we would certainly be opposed
to this. Coal really drives Wyoming, not only our area, but
when I spoke in my testimony, all of our education in Wyoming
is really funded by mineral production, most of that being
coal.
From 2000 to now, COVID bonus money actually paid for $2
billion of school facilities across the States of Wyoming. So
really, there is no answer for what would be the impact to
Wyoming with something like this. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Inhofe. You bet. Would you expect Americans' energy
bills to go up or down with the closing down of the coalfired
power plants?
Mr. Bell. I would certainly expect American's energy bills
to go much higher. We are blessed with some very low energy
prices in Wyoming, because we have mine mouth operations that
provide incredibly affordable power. We can provide that to the
rest of the United States, and extremely reliable power with
that coal, if allowed to do so.
Senator Inhofe. But it would result in much higher costs
for energy?
Mr. Bell. No question.
Senator Inhofe. Mr. Chairman, in your absence, we finished
the opening statements for our witnesses, and I used my time.
Now I turn it back to you.
Senator Markey. Thank you, Senator Inhofe. Thank you so
much.
Let me ask Mr. Hundt and Ms. Andrade questions about a bank
and how it would operate, and who are the beneficiaries.
Because of the success of these programs, States like
Massachusetts and Alaska have instituted banks, and the good
news is, a half a million people have moved to Massachusetts in
just the last 10 years. They are moving because of all of these
great green things that we are doing up in Massachusetts,
amongst other things.
So we have just got an incredible increase in our
population as we are at the cutting edge in climate and clean
energy issues. So as soon as these green banks start growing,
their investments, we reap the benefits: good-paying,
nonoutsourceable blue-collar jobs.
That is the whole key to this bank concept. It is all
local. None of this can go to China. None of this can be
offshored. All of it is in the community. If someone wants the
low-interest loans to redo the entire public housing system in
West Virginia or Massachusetts, they can qualify for this.
Lowinterest with a high probability they are going to pay it
back.
Default rates are very low in this bank model, and the
community decides themselves if they are going to do it. No one
makes them do it; it is just there, if it is going to be
helpful to them.
Mr. Hundt, could you talk about this blue-collar job
creation engine of a generation that could be the climate bank?
Mr. Hundt. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The existing green
banks, as I mentioned before, have about $20 billion in backlog
projects. What are those projects? They are the kind of things
that Ms. Andrade already talked to you about. House by house,
contractors looking to renovate those homes, looking to put
solar on the roof, looking to make those homes more resilient
in the face of storms. These are blue-collar jobs.
As we go across this Country, State by State, the impact of
the climate crisis is quite a bit different in every State, but
the one thing that is in common is that the rebuilding of the
way we make energy and the way we distribute it and the way we
consume it, in every single State is an opportunity to hire
people at very, very well-paid jobs, literally in the job of
rebuilding America.
Senator Markey. So, for example, give us a project, and
tell us which different professions would have to get hired in
order to complete that project.
Mr. Hundt. Let's take, as an example, a State where we have
been talking to people right now who don't have the capital,
want your bill to be passed, and want to be setting up a green
bank. Let's talk about the State of West Virginia. In West
Virginia, three quarters of all families own their own homes.
That is much higher than the national average, but their median
income is about $45,000, and the home is worth, on average,
about $125,000.
So, when they have to look at the job of renovating to put
solar on the roof, to put in the heat pump, to lower their
costs for utilities, which right now, are running at about 10
percent of their income, when they look at what it costs to
lower those particular expenses, what they are talking about
is, can I pay to get a contractor to come in and do this work.
Somebody to go on the roof, somebody to replace the window,
somebody to put in the heat pump. Those are all different
specialties, and there are people to do that work.
Senator Markey. So, they are electricians?
Mr. Hundt. Like an electrician, for example.
Senator Markey. They are carpenters, they are HVAC?
Mr. Hundt. That is all exactly right. Those are all
different people. Anybody that is ever been through a
renovation has an idea of how many different specialties are
required.
But here is the missing piece: they need a green bank to
provide the upfront capital at a very low interest rate so that
those people in those homes can afford to hire all those
different work people.
Senator Markey. OK. So, let me come back over to you, Ms.
Andrade. Does the Solar and Energy Loan Fund that you run have
a list of shovel-ready projects that would get people to work
if we can pass an innovation bank, pass an accelerator that
would get funding into the hands of people at the local-est of
levels?
Ms. Andrade. Yes. We currently have about $2 million in
projects that are small, small-sized projects, average $10,000
each, and that is just in the market that we are working in.
During COVID, we saw our loan activity explode. It more
than doubled because people are working, playing, studying,
doing everything at home, and they had to upgrade their homes
so that they could afford to run air conditioners, they had to
upgrade to high-efficiency air conditioners, they had to fix
roofs.
Currently, that trend continues, where people need to rehab
their homes, and especially low and moderate income people are
the ones disproportionately affected by climate impacts. Every
year, we have people that are still recovering from Hurricane
Irma, with tarps on their roofs, and not only Florida. We are
talking about our current market, we already have $2 million in
projects, but then we are opening up south Florida in
partnership with Miami-Dade County.
We have current partnerships with Orange County, with
Hillsborough County, St. Pete. We create these public-private
partnerships because we are also helping them as a tool for
development in their communities. Furthermore, I just want to
note that we are also about to pilot a program at the Atlanta
Housing Authority in Georgia, where we are going to help fix up
these low-income houses so that the lower-income tenants can
benefit from energy savings.
Senator Markey. Again, and in fixing them up, who do you
have to hire in order to do that? What community are you
talking about?
Ms. Andrade. Let's say, in Florida, in St. Lucie County.
Senator Markey. In St. Lucie County.
Ms. Andrade. We have roofers, we have a/c installers, we
have solar installers. Here is the thing: we have a green jobs
training center that is been set up, creating hundreds of
training of jobs, and these are jobs that are sustainable jobs.
By the way, the green job industry is one of the fastest-
growing industries right now. People are going to work putting
solar on roofs, installing a/c. This is a working-class,
typical job that sustains hundreds and thousands of families in
our Nation.
Senator Markey. Thank you so much. The Senator from
Oklahoma?
Senator Inhofe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Markey. I am so sorry. Yes, I did not recognize
Senator Lummis so that she could ask her round of questions.
Senator Inhofe. Let me make a unanimous consent request to
make as a part of the record, the American Enterprise Institute
has a paper on this legislation. I would like to make this as a
part of the record.
Senator Markey. Without objection.
[The referenced information follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Markey. Similarly, I would like to submit for the
record testimony by Representative Debbie Dingell, who is the
lead on companion legislation in the House that would create a
National Climate Bank. Without objection, so ordered.
[The referenced information follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Markey. Senator Lummis, you are recognized.
Senator Lummis. Well, thank you, Chairman Markey, and I
would sure like to see us focus on what can improve our air
quality and improve the global climate, rather than picking
winners and losers among the fuel sources, because we don't
have to pick winners and losers.
Our guest from Wyoming, thank you so much for being here.
We are already a leader in Wyoming on innovation when it comes
to carbon capture utilization and storage. Commissioner Bell,
can you talk about the great work that is happening in Wyoming
at the Integrated Testing Center in Gillette?
Mr. Bell. Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator Lummis,
thanks for the question.
The Integrated Test Center was host to the XPrize that
actually just wrapped up. A team from UCLA injected flue gas,
CO2 from a flue gas from the Dryfork Power Plant into concrete
blocks that actually made those blocks stronger, more
affordable.
On that same site, we have the Carbon Safe Project that is
a University of Wyoming partner with Basin Electric and others
to look at injecting 50 years' worth of CO2 from a power plant
into the ground, and not only into the ground, but then looking
at utilizing that in tertiary oil recovery. So it would be
really nice to use some of our technologies to have an overall
American CO2 strategy using really, all of the above, like we
are in Wyoming, so thank you for the question.
Senator Lummis. Yes, and I love what you are doing in
Campbell County, because you are making the point that we don't
have to eliminate fossil fuels in order to address climate
issues and have clean air. What we need to do is innovate our
way out of this, and Campbell County is leading the way to
innovating in order to keep fossil fuels in the fuel mix in the
cleanest way that they can possibly be produced. Kudos to
Campbell County on that point.
I am really surprised at some of my Senate colleagues who
want to have taxpayers spending on intermittent green
technology, while completely dismissing nuclear power. So, this
question is for Commissioner Bell and Mr. Isaac. What role
should nuclear play in our energy mix going forward?
Mr. Bell. Mr. Chairman, Senator Lummis, I can go quickly,
and then turn it over to Mr. Isaac. Really, what we need is an
all of the above energy approach. I don't think anybody is
going to be against green energy, but we need something that is
going to be reliable. Nuclear is reliable; needs to be
included. The same with fossil fuel energy. It needs to be
included because it is reliable.
I will turn it over to Mr. Isaac. Thank you.
Mr. Isaac. Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Senator
Lummis, for the question.
When you look at nuclear, nuclear growth of reliable
electricity should model GDP or our population, and we haven't
seen that in years. It is a great baseload. It is not
dispatchable, but it does provide a great baseload for our
grid. We should be absolutely advocating for more nuclear.
It is reliable, as I said, but then we need those
dispatchable forms, kinds that can be ramped up and ramped
down: natural gas, coal technology. You look at the mix, I
believe, in Wyoming, where I think there is some of the most
beautiful environment in the world, and I believe 86 percent of
their electric generation mix is from coal.
Then you look at the benefits from coal ash. We talked
about CO2 being used to strengthen concrete. That is actually a
mix of coal ash mixed in with concrete that makes it stronger.
Now they are finding concentrations of rare earth elements a
hundred times that found naturally, a hundred times the level
of concentrations in coal ash. That stuff that is produced here
in the United States, it is going into electronics. So there
are some great opportunities, looking forward, to our energy
here in the United States if we don't demonize some forms over
others.
Senator Lummis. Thank you both.
With regard to the demonization, again, Commissioner Bell
and Mr. Isaac, what would you say to people who have completely
dismissed the notion of clean energy coming from fossil fuels?
Mr. Isaac. I would look at our record over the last 50
years. We have reduced harmful pollution 77 percent, while we
are increasing our GDP, increasing our energy use, increasing
our miles traveled, increasing our population. Every economic
measure shows that economic prosperity and environmental
leadership go hand in hand.
Senator Lummis. Commissioner Bell?
Mr. Bell. Yes, Senator Lummis, thank you.
Every morning, I wake up, and most of the time, if it is
not raining, I can see the Bighorn Mountains 50 miles away. So,
it really is producing, like Mr. Isaac said, 86 percent of our
electricity is coming from coal, and we have the most beautiful
landscapes in all of the world, in my opinion. Wyoming is truly
an amazing place, and I would welcome anybody to come out and
see our place. Nobody cares about our area more than we do.
Thank you.
Senator Lummis. Well, thank you both so much, and if I
would just have one more comment. If we spent as much money on
climate change in India as we spend in the United States, we
could make so much more progress on climate change, because
they need the help more than we do. Money we spend here makes
incremental changes at this point. If we would spend that money
in India, the whole globe would have much cleaner air and less
carbon.
Mr. Chairman, thank you. I yield back.
Senator Markey. Great. Thank you. I don't know if Senator
Padilla is ready yet, but if he is not, and as soon as you are
ready, Senator, please let us know.
Let me ask you, Mr. Hundt, in your role as founder and CEO
of the Coalition for Green Capital, explain the difference
between what you do and what Blackstone would do. We heard
about Blackstone today. What is the target for the green bank
that you are proposing?
Mr. Hundt. So, if you are working at Blackstone, and I have
known the founder since college, so I think I speak from some
knowledge, you are in the for-profit business in a very, very
aggressive way. There is nothing wrong with capitalism, but the
idea that 20, 25, 30 percent annual returns are possible in the
kind of work that Duanne and I have been talking about, that is
not viable. Those people in the examples today that I gave you
of West Virginia, who need to spend $40,000 renovating their
house, on average, they can't be paying somebody, a financier
from New York at a profit rate of 25 to 30. They need low-cost
capital.
That is why the people in West Virginia are saying to us,
please have this accelerator become law, and please set us up
with capital, and as I mentioned before, we have 37 States
where that is the picture all across the Country.
I am not saying that we shouldn't have capitalism; that is
why the seven private dollars are going to join with the one
public dollar. But we need that special mix to be able to make
sure that we are not pricing all these changes right out of the
market and having it be that we have a two-tier system. If you
are really, really rich, you can have solar on the roof, and if
you aren't, too bad for you. That is exactly what you are
trying to break through with your bill.
Senator Markey. So, you are saying, Blackstone's not going
to West Virginia, but this bank would be going there, up and
down the streets of Charleston and Wheeling, and out in the
rural parts of West Virginia, providing the very low-cost
capital for individuals and small communities?
Mr. Hundt. Exactly.
Senator Markey. Yes. So, I think we should divide this
question, just so we understand what the difference is, and why
this bank is so necessary and so local. Again, Senator Padilla,
I don't know if you have joined us that, but pending that, let
me recognize the Senator from Oklahoma again.
Senator Inhofe. Well, I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman. I do
have a commitment on the floor in just 15 minutes, so I would
just like to get a couple things with our great witnesses that
we have today.
First of all, Commissioner Bell, the White House Climate
Czar, John Kerry, says that fossil energy workers can make
solar panels, but Secretary Kerry refuses to acknowledge solar
installers earn far less than oil rig workers or coal miners,
which would be devastating to millions of hard-working
Americans. Commissioner Bell, do you share my concern for lost
wages under Secretary Kerry's Green New Deal, green scenario
for fossil energy workers?
Mr. Bell. Senator Inhofe, thank you for that question. Yes,
it really, really concerns me that those jobs would not be
located in Wyoming, for one, and that those jobs aren't going
to be the same wages as mineral production. It really concerns
me. I don't think that what he is proposing, honestly, is
feasible. Thank you.
Senator Inhofe. What do you think about that, Mr. Isaac?
Mr. Isaac. Yes, I think it is, again, this fixation on
carbon dioxide. Again, if we eliminate all fossil fuel use by
2030, doubling President Biden's ambitious goal, the
temperature mitigation using the same models that the United
Nations and intergovernmental panel on climate change uses
would mean there would be a less than two-tenths of a degree
difference by the end of the century. But we would increase
electricity costs more than twofold on the American consumers,
for products that are predominantly made overseas, whether it
is the rare earth elements that go into wind and solar
technology that are mined in China, and places like the Congo
in Africa that do not have the environmental or labor standards
that we do here in the United States.
UNICEF reports that over 40,000 children between the ages
of 4 years old and 13-year-olds are working in mines in the
Congo. Forty thousand children mining, so that we can have our
solar panels and our electric cars and our computer technology,
and those components that they are mining are all here in the
United States. We should be mining and producing those products
right here in the United States with our environmental
leadership record that we have. No. 1, when it comes to access
for clean and safe drinking water in the world, and No. 1 when
it comes to reducing harmful pollutions of highly populated
countries.
Senator Inhofe. Yes. I appreciate that, and I think you
covered it very well, the successes that we have had here,
particularly in the United States.
As you know, the Board of Directors would be entirely
controlled under this advisory committee experience that we are
talking about today, be controlled by Washington. Another
serious fault is the structure of its 13-member advisory board,
which would be chosen by the board of directors. The advisory
committee would be responsible for advising the bank on its
investment programs and briefing Congress on bank activities.
None of the advisory committee members would be required to
have any banking sector experience.
I don't think I have ever run into this before, where they
are putting someone in that advisory category that doesn't have
any background in it at all. Do you agree that any bank
advisory committee that lacks the banking sector experience
would be imprudent and highly unusual? Can you think of any
examples where that is actually happening today?
Mr. Isaac. It would be incredibly unusual. Yes, I mentioned
ethics attorneys, I wouldn't hire one that didn't have
experience. My accountant, I wouldn't hire one fresh out of
college, or maybe one that had no college experience
whatsoever. That would be incredibly alarming to me.
But you look at the Electric Reliability Council of Texas,
and a lot of this came to light after the freeze that we saw in
Texas in February, there were numerous board members,
selfappointed, picked by the industry, that didn't even live in
the United States, that didn't live in Texas. They certainly
weren't served or lived in the area that they were supposed to
be serving in that electric grid in Texas.
It is much like, you are supposed to represent members of
the State where you are from. You certainly don't want someone
representing Oklahoma that is not from Oklahoma in the U.S.
Senate, so that Board of Directors raises some alarms for me,
just based on some recent experience that we have seen in
Texas, and how unreliable our grid proved to be because we had
outside leadership managing our grid that weren't from Texas.
Senator Inhofe. That is good. That is a great statement.
Mr. Chairman, I do have a commitment on the floor, but I
appreciate very much the opportunity for our witnesses to be
heard, because it is a significant piece of legislation, and we
have opinions on it, as we have expressed.
Senator Markey. Absolutely. Thank you for being here,
Senator. Much appreciated.
Again, I just want to come back to the mistaken notion
about reducing greenhouse gases and increasing the economy in
our Country. Massachusetts, again, is a great example where,
from 2005 until 2017, Massachusetts cut our emissions by 25
percent, and from 2005 and 2017, our economy went up 30
percent.
So, there is just a mistaken notion out there with regard
to what happens when you make an effort to reduce greenhouse
gases. Massachusetts is a perfect example, and a half a million
people moved to our State in the last 10 years. So there is a
model out there for, as my mother would say, working smarter,
not harder, and taking low-cost capital to unleash a blue-
collar job revolution in our Country on things that a community
needs anyway.
A homeowner, the local mayor, something that will help them
to do something and use local construction workers in community
after community, not just in a small number of States, but in
every State in the United States would be a beneficiary of
this.
I would like, if I may, Mr. Hundt, just to focus upon an
analysis done by Vivid Economics that determined that the
National Climate Bank could create more than four million jobs
in 4 years if it was capitalized as $100 billion, and it would
generate more than a sevenfold return on investment. Could you
focus upon that? Four million jobs in 4 years, in our Country,
using a green bank.
Mr. Hundt. The reason that Vivid reached that conclusion is
that they were able to talk to the existing green banks, like
the one in Florida that you already heard about. They looked at
the backlogged projects, the projects that should be being done
right now by those electricians and roofers and other specialty
people in the work force. They should be underway right now,
but they are not occurring because of the lack of capital,
because the money hasn't gone to this National Climate Bank,
and we haven't yet got it, and we haven't yet been able to pass
it on to the network of State and local green banks.
Let's just take Alaska, for example. The Republican
Governor Mike Dunleavy introduced legislation to create a green
bank. He doesn't have the funding for it. He is counting on
this Accelerator becoming law.
What does he want to do with the money? What he wants to do
is address the indigenous population and the many people in
Alaska who live, literally, off the grid, and the kind of
projects that they would be engaged in in order to generate
electricity, in order to store electricity, are small projects.
We are not talking here about billionaires who want to go to
Mars with their money, we are talking about people in local
communities who would be hiring people locally to rebuild the
economy on a local basis.
That is what would occur in Massachusetts and in Alabama,
in Wyoming, Alaska, all across our Country, and by doing that,
by showing that we can do this on a State-by-State, county-
bycounty, town-by-town, neighborhood-by-neighborhood basis, we
will be showing the whole world how to have this great change
occur, and there is not a moment to lose.
Senator Markey. Yes. Again, people who are saying no to
this are also saying no to four million new blue-collar jobs in
our Country when we desperately need it. So there have to be,
in my opinion, better arguments that are made against this bank
than what we have heard so far today, because that is saying to
four million families, four million individuals, we are going
to deny you, over the next 4 years, a job. I haven't heard yet
good answers as to why that should not be the case.
At a public event last week, Cecil Roberts, the President
of United Mine Workers of America, made news when he
acknowledged a change in coming to coal country, whether people
like it or not. Seven thousand coal workers lost their jobs
last year alone. The United Mine Workers extended a hand to the
Biden Administration, saying they will join in supporting
investments in a clean energy future, but they need to be
investing in energy communities that have been left behind.
Mr. Hundt, how would a National Climate Bank help average
citizens help leverage private capital off the sidelines for
carbon capture and other technologies that cleanup our
industrial and energy sectors?
Mr. Hundt. The United Mine Workers of America's statement
that you just referenced, Mr. Chairman, includes a list of
things that they feel are necessary to address the coal mining
communities in which they are working. At least several of
those provisions specifically are authorized for the
Accelerator to do by your legislation.
The second thing that I would like to point out is that the
impact on tax revenues that was referenced by Commissioner
Bell, that is another activity in which the Accelerator could,
through a State and local green bank, act in a particular
community to ease the transition.
Then most importantly of all, as we have talked about, all
of the projects, from the very small to even the very large,
that would be part of this grand rebuilding of the power
platform of America would create new opportunities, not in some
other Country, or not just in one or two States, but literally
everywhere in the Country.
Senator Markey. Thank you. And would the National Climate
Bank sustain investment into local projects and communities for
decades without requiring decades of Federal risk or continued
appropriations?
Mr. Hundt. The way your bill correctly proceeds is to have
this initial deposit of $100 billion of capital. Then on the
basis of that, the private sector would come in and sometimes
invest in projects along with the green bank, and sometimes
rely on the green bank as security, as it made the investments
on its own.
But that is why you were right earlier when you said, by
every dollar that you deposit of public money, you are going to
be able to attract, over a decade, $7 of private sector money.
This is the best bang for the buck idea of the entire American
Jobs Plan.
Senator Markey. I agree with you, 100 percent, and I agree
with the testimony of Ms. Andrade, as well. This is just a job
creation engine. This is something that would unleash amazing
amount of investment at the most local of level in 50 different
States, which is why Don Young, very conservative member from
Alaska, Republican, has endorsed this approach.
We are not just talking about Massachusetts or California.
We are talking about Alaska, we are talking about West
Virginia, we are talking about every State in the Union. Every
State in the Union should be able to take advantage of this
incredible technological revolution that is going on out there,
but knowing that it is going to be blue-collar workers who do
the job.
So, I can't thank you all enough for your testimony here
today. I would like to ask unanimous consent to submit for the
record a number of reports and articles that highlight the
scale of investment in renewable energy, energy efficiency that
is needed to decarbonize our economy while addressing historic
inequities that will build a more prosperous America for
everyone.
Those materials, I think, will actually make it clear what
the structure has to be for our future to make us more
resilient, so we avoid the tragedy of what happened in Texas,
so we anticipate the longer-term impacts that the climate are
going to have on our Country.
[The referenced information follows:]
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Senator Markey. We have had, in my opinion, a heartening
and educational discussion today concerning this important
piece of legislation.
I would like to again extend my sincere gratitude to our
witnesses, for those of you who are joining us on WebEx, as
well.
For some final housekeeping, Senators will be allowed to
submit questions for the record through the close of business
on Tuesday, May 11th, 2021. We will compile those questions and
send them to our witnesses, and ask that our witnesses reply by
May 25th, 2021, so we thank all of our witnesses. We thank all
of the Senators for participating today.
With that, this hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 4:12 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
[all]