[Senate Hearing 117-3]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-3
NOMINATIONS OF MARCIA L. FUDGE AND
CECILIA E. ROUSE
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON
BANKING,HOUSING,AND URBAN AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON
NOMINATIONS OF:
MARCIA L. FUDGE, OF OHIO, TO BE SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND
URBAN DEVELOPMENT
__________
CECILIA E. ROUSE, OF NEW JERSEY, TO BE CHAIR, COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC
ADVISERS
__________
JANUARY 28, 2021
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available at: https: //www.govinfo.gov /
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
43-929 WASHINGTON : 2021
COMMITTEE ON BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS
MIKE CRAPO, Idaho, Chairman
RICHARD C. SHELBY, Alabama SHERROD BROWN, Ohio
PATRICK J. TOOMEY, Pennsylvania JACK REED, Rhode Island
TIM SCOTT, South Carolina ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey
BEN SASSE, Nebraska JON TESTER, Montana
TOM COTTON, Arkansas MARK R. WARNER, Virginia
MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts
DAVID PERDUE, Georgia BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii
THOM TILLIS, North Carolina CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland
JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
MARTHA McSALLY, Arizona DOUG JONES, Alabama
JERRY MORAN, Kansas TINA SMITH, Minnesota
KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona
Gregg Richard, Staff Director
Laura Swanson, Democratic Staff Director
Matt Jones, Counsel
Elisha Tuku, Democratic Chief Counsel
Beth Cooper, Democratic Professional Staff Member
Megan Cheney, Democratic Professional Staff Member
Cameron Ricker, Chief Clerk
Shelvin Simmons, IT Director
Charles J. Moffat, Hearing Clerk
Jim Crowell, Editor
(ii)
C O N T E N T S
----------
THURSDAY, JANUARY 28, 2021
Page
Opening statement of Senator Toomey.............................. 1
Opening statements, comments, or prepared statements of:
Senator Brown................................................ 4
Prepared statement....................................... 42
WITNESSES
Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio.................................... 7
Senator Rob Portman of Ohio...................................... 8
Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey............................ 10
Senator Cory A. Booker of New Jersey............................. 11
NOMINEES
Marcia L. Fudge, of Ohio, to be Secretary, Department of Housing
and Urban Development.......................................... 13
Prepared statement........................................... 43
Biographical sketch of nominee............................... 45
Responses to written questions of:
Chairman Crapo........................................... 96
Senator Brown............................................ 96
Senator Toomey........................................... 102
Senator Cotton........................................... 115
Senator Kennedy.......................................... 115
Senator Menendez......................................... 116
Senator Warren........................................... 118
Senator Smith............................................ 120
Senator Sinema........................................... 121
Cecilia E. Rouse, of New Jersey, to be Chair, Council of Economic
Advisers....................................................... 15
Prepared statement........................................... 83
Biographical sketch of nominee............................... 84
Responses to written questions of:
Senator Brown............................................ 123
Senator Toomey........................................... 126
Senator Warren........................................... 127
Senator Van Hollen....................................... 129
Additional Material Supplied for the Record
Letters submitted in support of Nominee Marcia L. Fudge.......... 130
Letters submitted in support of Nominee Cecilia E. Rouse......... 146
(iii)
NOMINATIONS OF MARCIA L. FUDGE AND CECILIA E. ROUSE
----------
THURSDAY, JANUARY 28, 2021
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met at 10 a.m., via Webex, Hon. Patrick J.
Toomey, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PATRICK J. TOOMEY
Senator Toomey. Good morning. This hearing on the
nominations of Congresswoman Marcia Fudge for HUD Secretary and
Dean Cecilia Rouse for Chair of the Council of Economic
Advisers will come to order.
Before I begin with an opening statement, there are a few
housekeeping items I would like to go through.
First, this hearing is, of course, being held remotely. A
few videoconference reminders: Once you start speaking, there
will be a slight delay before you are displayed on the screen.
To minimize background noise, please click the mute button
until it is your turn to speak or ask questions. If there is a
technology issue, we will move to the next Senator until that
issue is resolved.
I would like to remind all Senators and our witnesses that
the 5-minute clock still applies. You should all have one box
on your screens labeled ``Clock'' that will show you how much
time is remaining. At 30 seconds remaining, you should hear a
bell that will remind Senators that their time has almost
expired.
To simplify the speaking order process, Senator Brown and I
have again agreed to go by seniority for this hearing. After
Senator Brown and I give opening statements, we will hear brief
introductions of our witnesses from Senators Brown and Portman
and Senators Menendez and Booker. We will then proceed to
testimony.
I will recognize myself for my opening comments and observe
that it appears that I am Chairman for the morning or so. Maybe
it will be for a full day. That is to be seen. But I want to
thank Chairman Crapo for his service. I think he is not with us
at the moment, but I want to thank him for his leadership of
this Committee. In my view, Senator Crapo set a terrific
example for all of us, an example of how to engage in civil
debate and treat each other with respect. I think Senator Crapo
has a lot of work that he can be proud of during his tenure as
Chairman, the work he did on the CARES Act in particular, as
the economy was in dire straits last March, to the bipartisan
S. 2155, the Economic Growth, Regulatory Relief, and Consumer
Protection Act. And I want to thank Chairman Crapo, and I think
I speak for many Members of the Committee in saying that we are
looking forward to his work as the Ranking Member of the
Finance Committee.
I also want to say a quick word expressing my appreciation
to Senator Brown. We find ourselves, of course, in this
somewhat awkward position where we have an even split in the
Senate, and we at the moment have this split on the Committee
itself. As I mentioned, I am fully aware that very, very soon
Senator Brown will be the Chairman of the Committee.
I would like to point out I feel like we have made the best
of the circumstances we are in. We have made progress on the
process by which we vet nominees. We have made progress on
processing the nominations themselves. We have made progress on
the budgeting for the Committee and how we will allocate
resources. So I appreciate that.
And I appreciate the fact that in the past Senator Brown
and I have had a constructive working relationship, whether it
is working on things like the opioid crisis, the threat of
Asian carps to the Great Lakes that we share, and a number of
national security threats as well. So I am looking forward to
continuing to work with Senator Brown in what will soon be his
new role.
And as for my opening statement, let me first begin by
thanking both nominees for their appearance today, more
importantly for their willingness to serve. Dean Cecilia Rouse
has had a distinguished career in academia and Government. She
is very well qualified for the post to which she has been
nominated. She has a wealth of expertise in economic research
and policy and previous experience on the Council of Economic
Advisers. She has multiple degrees from Harvard University and
is the current dean at the Princeton School of Public
International Affairs and many, many awards and achievements
throughout her distinguished career.
I will say I am particularly pleased and I admire her
advocacy for freedom of speech and diversity of points of view.
I think that is an important principle. In 2017, Dr. Rouse
wrote, and I quote, ``I strongly believe, however, that
diversity cannot be viewed solely along demographic lines.
While we do not always think of diversity in terms of thought
or political orientation, we should. It is critical that in our
classrooms, boardrooms, and halls of Government people who have
different ideological viewpoints interact and work together to
debate the important issues of our day.''
I think that is a very constructive and much needed
sentiment, especially on college campuses.
Now, in the spirit of that quote, I want to recognize that
I think I am going to disagree with Dr. Rouse far more often
than I agree with respect to individual policy prescriptions.
But I think she is someone that I can work with. I hope that if
she is confirmed, she will bring a thoughtful, reasoned
perspective and, in particular, a willingness to underscore
that most policies have intended and unintended consequences.
There are costs as well as benefits, and the entirety of the
likely outcome should be evaluated.
Congresswoman Fudge, I want to thank you for your long
career in public service and your commitment to community. I
appreciated and enjoyed our conversation on Tuesday. But in
light of President Biden's repeated calls for unity and pledges
to keep ad hominem personal attacks out of political discourse,
I do think it is important we look at some of your past
rhetoric, just as we should for all nominees before this
Committee, to understand whether your rhetoric matches
President Biden's call for ``bringing Americans together.''
I will say I am particularly troubled by a number of
statements that you have made, Representative Fudge, attacking
and disparaging the integrity and motives of Republican
officials with whom you have policy disagreements. A few short
months ago, in September of 2020, you slammed Senate Republican
efforts to fill the late Justice Ginsburg's seat, and you said,
and I quote, ``Those who are bent on choosing her successor
have no decency, they have no honor, they have no integrity.''
And you went to say, and I quote, ``They are a disgrace to this
Nation.''
So, Congresswoman, it is one thing to have strongly held
views and disagreements, but I am troubled by this and several
other statements, because in my mind they raise questions about
your willingness and ability to work with Republicans if this
is your opinion of Republicans.
Now, one such category of areas where we need to be able to
work together is how you as HUD Secretary will implement
housing policies that affect millions of Americans. I hope to
learn this morning more about how you will address HUD's
regulations on affirmatively furthering fair housing, or AFFH.
I hope you will avoid returning to the costly Obama era rule
that forced cities to hire expensive consultants and complete
lengthy plans that could stretch as long as 800 pages. In my
view, now is not the time to impose new, unfunded mandates on
these communities which will inevitably drain resources that
could be used to support affordable housing and other
priorities.
I also believe that it is local communities that should be
in the driver's seat making decisions for their communities
rather than Washington. I also want to learn how you will
address HUD's disparate impact regulations. Under the Obama era
disparate impact rule, it seemed that often defendants were
guilty until proven innocent, and this turned some housing
providers away from providing affordable housing because of the
risk of protracted litigation.
I hope that any new rule that comes from HUD allows claims
of discrimination to proceed when they are legitimate and frees
housing providers to focus on their mission. It is also
important that any such new rule be consistent with the Supreme
Court decision in Inclusive Communities.
Finally, let me just make clear how I think about an
important issue that we are going to be wrestling with in
Congress--and it is the jurisdiction of this Committee--and
that is the question of whether there should be a longer
eviction moratorium in light of and in the context of the
assistance that has already been provided.
As a brief reminder, last year we were in a full-blown
financial crisis, a full-blown economic crisis, and we
appropriated several trillion--everybody on this Committee
voted in favor, everyone, I think, in the Senate, voted in
favor of several trillion dollars to replace lost income for
millions of individuals and businesses. In March, Congress
authorized literally hundreds of billions of dollars in direct
assistance to individuals in the form of stimulus checks,
increased food stamps, extending unemployment eligibility,
enhanced unemployment benefits. We all voted for that. And just
last month, we did it all over again. Signs are now pointing
toward a robust recovery that is underway. It is not complete,
but it is underway. The economy grew at 33 percent in the third
quarter. Household balance sheets are extremely strong, the
personal savings rate it at an all-time record high, and
unemployment has dramatically improved from a peak of almost 15
percent to below 7 percent now.
Just a few weeks ago, we passed another $900 billion bill,
and included in that, Congress made $25 billion available
exclusively for emergency rental assistance, and that money has
not yet been fully distributed yet. And now we are being told
that we need to do even more right away. My view is if after
all of this historic spending there are people who have fallen
through the cracks, people who have not gotten the assistance
they need, then by all means let us have a conversation about
those folks who are in those circumstances. But I think
anything we do now should be narrowly targeted to the people
who actually need the help rather than universal spending
programs that inevitably will spend a huge amount of money on
people who never experienced any economic hardship.
I look forward to the testimony of each of our witnesses,
and at this time I recognize Senator Brown for his opening
statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SHERROD BROWN
Senator Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is an honor to
be here and it is a thrill to be here with my friend
Congresswoman Marcia Fudge. And, Dr. Rouse, thank you for
joining us, too. Dr. Rouse and I have talked numerous times
but, as is the case with so many, now have not yet talked face
to face, and I look forward to that.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your words about the work on
this Committee. I would echo your comments about Mike Crapo,
working with him on a number of issues. While I, of course,
disagree with him on most major issues, we were able to work
together in this Committee and did make a number of good things
happen. So thank you, and our discussions and relationship
during this transition, the work that you and I did, Mr.
Chairman, on the CARES Act that essentially kept 12 million
people out of poverty until the unemployment benefits and
others began to fall away in the summer--and we should have
moved faster. That was a point of disagreement, obviously, with
the Chairman and me, but working together on that made a huge
difference. So thank you, and we will continue that in our new
relationship in the next couple of years.
We consider the nominations today of two distinguished
public servants, my Congresswoman, Marcia Fudge--Connie and I
live in the city of Cleveland in her district--to lead the
Department of Housing and Urban Development, and Dr. Cecilia
Rouse to lead the Council of Economic Advisers.
Most of us have met with them, remotely in most cases. We
are impressed with their knowledge, we are impressed with their
commitment, and we are impressed with their passion to serve,
especially during the current public health and economic
crisis. Thank you, Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse, for that.
Our economy is at a crossroads. COVID-19 infections are up.
New unemployment claims continue to rise. Millions of families
are behind on their bills--on rent, on utilities, on mortgage
payments.
The Chairman is right that there was good economic growth
in the third quarter, but the fourth quarter does not look so
good. This recovery is clearly off track. Much more needs to be
done. The new Secretary of the Treasury--former Chair of the
Federal Reserve--and the sitting Chair of the Federal Reserve,
who was known, not particularly now, but known as a Republican
when he was nominated, both believe that we need to do more
and, pardon the cliche, not put our foot on the brake.
We face a choice: Will we finally marshal all of our
country's vast resources and talent to meet this moment? Will
we help the families that desperately need it? There are so
many of them in every one of our States. Will we help our
struggling small businesses survive? Will we work together to
get Americans vaccinated, back to school, back to work, and
back to seeing their grandparents and grandchildren?
Or will we sit back and watch as millions of Americans face
the ever-growing threat of eviction in the middle of a
pandemic, in the middle of winter, as people drain meager
savings accounts or head to payday lenders, as job losses
become permanent, and as racial and economic inequality get
worse?
President Biden nominated Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse
to positions that will be essential to determining which path
we take, during this pandemic and in the years ahead.
I can think of no one better to lead us out of this
pandemic and into the future than the two women before us
today.
After a year when Black Americans have endured so many
painful reminders of the yawning gap between the promise of our
founding ideals and our failure to make that promise real for
everyone, two Black women will take leading roles in our
economic recovery.
This matters on so many levels. It matters for our future
that little girls, including Black and Brown girls, see
themselves in our leaders, from the Vice President to our two
economic leaders sitting in front of this Committee.
It matters because of the perspectives and the life
experiences these two women--these two Black women--bring to
these jobs.
They both have ties to Ohio: one a daughter of Cleveland--I
would add her mother is sitting with her; Marcia is
broadcasting, or whatever verb we use, from Cuyahoga Community
College with her family behind her. She will, of course, get
the honor of introducing her, but I have seen her mother, an
activist herself, who brought up Marcia to be the activist. I
have seen her around the community. Marcia will, of course,
introduce all of them in a moment. The other, Dr. Rouse, with
roots deep into the Mahoning Valley and Youngstown, Ohio.
Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse bring a real
understanding of the people who make this country work--all
people who make this country work--to these jobs.
If confirmed, Congresswoman Fudge will lead an agency that
supports families and communities, that provides housing and
safety to people experiencing homelessness from this pandemic--
we were just talking offline at the beginning about how
important this is, especially for homeless veterans. It will
help communities rebuild.
Today HUD is grappling with a housing market where millions
of families find it harder and harder to afford a decent home.
The cost of housing is up, wages are flat, and so many workers
have trouble making rent every month without crippling stress,
or they turn to predatory loans. And the dream of home
ownership is increasingly out of reach and, with increasing
vigor, racial divides.
None of this started with COVID-19. The affordable housing
crisis is the product of decades of conscious policy
decisions--by both Government and corporations. This pandemic
has exposed what millions of families in this country already
knew: that too many people are struggling to get by.
Before the United States had our first case of COVID-19,
before that, a quarter of all renters in this country were
already paying more than half their income for housing. The
Black home ownership rate was nearly as low as it was in 1968
when housing discrimination was legal, and when our colleague
Senator Romney's father was appointed Secretary, was nominated
Secretary of HUD. HUD should play an essential role in fixing
that--in expanding opportunity for every Zip code, and allowing
more families to have the peace of mind and the economic
security of a safe home they can afford.
Congresswoman Fudge will work to help protect our kids from
lead poisoning--still a problem in Cleveland and in Appalachia,
Ohio--to restore the promise of fair housing, and to give
communities the help and resources they need.
All of this is a tall order. It is one she is poised to
meet. She brings to the job the unique and critical experiences
of serving as mayor for the kind of community that is either
overlooked or outright preyed upon by Wall Street and big
investors.
We cannot write off entire swaths of the country--whether
it is a coal town or a historic industrial city, whether it is
farm country or whether it is an urban neighborhood. This
champion of Cleveland understands that.
The Council of Economic Advisers will also play an integral
role both in helping our economy recover and in building a
better system out of this pandemic. Dr. Rouse is exactly who we
need at the helm. If confirmed, she will help direct our
Nation's economic policy to put Americans back to work,
fighting for better jobs with higher wages.
Millions of Americans are still out of work. Those job
losses have disproportionately fallen on low-income workers,
Black and Brown workers, and women. At the same time, essential
workers are risking their health to go to work. Corporations
still refuse to pay so many of them a living wage.
It is all part of the corporate business model that treats
American workers as expendable instead of essential, as we call
them, to this country's success. For decades, workers' wages
have remained stagnant while CEO pay has skyrocketed.
``Building Back Better'' means taking on that system and
creating an economy with a growing, thriving middle class.
It will not be the first time Dr. Rouse has helped us
weather a crisis. She served on the Council of Economic
Advisers a dozen years ago, during the Great Recession.
Dr. Rouse has spent her career focusing on workers and
ensuring that this economy works for everyone. Her experience
and leadership will guide this Administration and Congress in
formulating the policies that help revive our economy so that
it works for all Americans.
And Dr. Rouse and Congresswoman Fudge will look at how we
can protect families from climate change while seizing
opportunities to create new jobs, to advance environmental
justice, and to grow new industries. Making our homes and
communities more energy efficient is not just necessary for our
future; it is the kind of investment that will put people back
to work at jobs that cannot be outsourced.
We face great challenges. These are extraordinary times.
I look forward to hearing how each of you will help chart
the course out of this pandemic and build a brighter future in
the years ahead.
Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent to submit a number of
letters to the record in support of these two nominees.
Senator Toomey. Without objection.
Senator Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Toomey. Thank you.
So at this time, our colleagues from Ohio and New Jersey
have indicated they would like to introduce the nominees from
their home States. Senator Brown, as the senior Senator from
Ohio, did you have anything you wanted to add by way of
introduction to Congresswoman Fudge?
STATEMENT OF SENATOR SHERROD BROWN OF OHIO
Senator Brown. Yes, just a couple of words. Then I will
turn to my colleague Senator Portman for sure.
I have said much about Marcia already. I mentioned her
mother here, and she is calling in. She is with us from our
great community college, I believe the downtown campus,
although I do not know which campus she is on, of Tri-C. She is
a proud daughter of Ohio. She was born in Cleveland. She grew
up in our State. She graduated from the Ohio State University
in Cleveland, Marshall College of Law, a long and distinguished
career in public service. She was in the Cuyahoga County
Prosecutor's Office, chief of staff to our trailblazing friend
Stephanie Tubbs Jones, mayor of Warrensville Heights. I
remember still the long meeting I had in her office back in, I
believe, 2005. She served as national president of the Delta
Sigma Theta sorority. Senator Portman and I have been to a
number of Delta reunions with the redcoats in the basement of
Rayburn. Thank you for that.
She has been a leader in Congress. As past Chair of the
Congressional Black Caucus, we know her outspokenness on civil
rights, on women's rights, on human rights. She saw up close
how lenders preyed on families. Everyone in this Committee has
heard me talk about my Zip code, 44105, more foreclosures there
in the first half of 2007 than anywhere in the country. She was
serving as mayor then, probably 7 or 8 miles from there in
Warrensville Heights. She represents my Zip code and those
communities in the Congress now. She has dedicated her career
fighting for these families and the communities they live in. I
am excited to work with her as the future Chair of the Banking
and Housing
Committee on housing issues.
It is my pleasure to introduce Marcia Fudge and turn it to
my friend Senator Portman.
Senator Toomey. Senator Portman, you are recognized to make
your comments.
STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROB PORTMAN OF OHIO
Senator Portman. Thank you, Chairman Toomey and Chairman-
to-be Brown and Senator Crapo and others who might be here from
the Committee. I appreciate the opportunity to introduce a
friend of mine. Before I do, I want to tell her that I think it
is great she is at an amazing community college, Tri-C. I hope
Dr. Johnson is taking good care of you. And I understand that
Mrs. Miriam Safford is with you, who is a distinguished public
servant in her own way, although not in elected office, and
happens to be the 89-year-old mother of yours. Is that correct?
Yes, well, congratulations to you and to your family for this
nomination.
I am here just to say that I am proud that you are choosing
to step up. You are a friend of mine. We have worked together.
You do have a distinguished career, and you have worked on
housing policy issues throughout your entire public policy
career. You graduated from Ohio State, earned a law degree from
Cleveland State. You were Cuyahoga County prosecutor, assistant
prosecutor. You were the first African-American and first
female mayor of Warrensville Heights, and there you worked on
housing issues. I am told that affordable housing was one of
your policy objectives there, and you were successful in
expanding that.
Since being elected to the House of Representatives in
2008, succeeding another friend of mine who was, you know, a
very successful Member of Congress who was able to work on both
sides of the aisle, Stephanie Tubbs Jones, you have gone on to
serve the people of Cleveland in the 11th District with a
substantial and impressive work ethic, as I have seen certainly
compassion for your constituents, many of whom live in
communities where there is not good access to housing or jobs
and where poverty is an issue.
My experience and that of respected members of the
Cleveland community who I know well is that you have worked
collaboratively to tackle these challenges, working across
party lines, including even with your Republican Senator now
and again and with the business community, to help your
constituents.
Of course, you also chaired the Congressional Black Caucus,
and they made you Chair because they recognized your leadership
capabilities.
In our time in Congress together, we have worked on a
number of things that are bicameral and bipartisan, including
teaming up to increase college access for low-income students
through our Go to High School, Go to College Act, which
incentivizes students to earn college credits in high school
through the Pell grant program.
In 2014, after a HUD rule that I thought was a bureaucratic
rule that did not make much sense, cutoff some Cleveland area
families from critical housing and social services, your office
and my office and you and I worked together to ensure that HUD
worked with Cuyahoga County, and with City Mission in
particular in Cleveland, so that struggling residents could
continue to have access to those vital services. And we were
successful in working with HUD on that, so I know you have had
experiences working with the HUD bureaucracy.
During this health care and economic crisis, she has
continued to be a leader in fighting for housing security by
cosponsoring amendments to the bipartisan CARES Act that
ensured those affected by the pandemic were not unfairly
evicted from their homes or foreclosed on due to missed rent or
mortgage payments.
Just as important as her experience, in my view, is who she
is as a person. I do not always agree with Marcia on policy;
she certainly does not always agree with me. But I can speak to
her integrity, her commitment to justice, and the strength of
her character. I think she has got a public servant's heart. I
think she is in it for the right reasons. And, again, I am
encouraged that she is willing to step up to take on this new
responsibility, which is not always easy in these times.
As head of the Department of Housing and Urban Development,
she will have an important job of leading efforts to ensure
affordable quality housing is within reach of all Americans.
This is something we all hope for. It is critical as our Nation
continues to face the housing crisis, compounded by the health
care and economic crises caused by COVID-19.
I noticed this morning there was a new report on economic
growth. Fourth quarter growth was substantial, over 4 percent.
That does not mean that housing became any more affordable. In
a way, I think, as we begin to come out of this pandemic, we
are going to get back, as we start to grow the economy again,
which all of us hope for and I believe will happen, into the
same issue we have been in, which is a lack of affordable
housing in my State of Ohio and around the country. So I know
Representative Fudge shares that concern and will be focused on
that.
I know she also shares this Committee's commitment to
addressing the eviction crisis we have got right now and how do
you deal with that in the middle of a pandemic. It is a tough
issue, and, you know, you want to be sure that landlords,
particularly our small landlords around the State of Ohio and
elsewhere, are not left without the resources that they need to
be able to be successful, but also we need to be sure we are
dealing with the reality of people not being able to pay rent
in some cases and avoiding those evictions, which cause so much
pain and inefficiency in our system.
So, Mr. Chairman, thank you for allowing me the privilege
of introducing Representative Fudge. I look forward to hearing
from her this morning and then the opportunity to vote for her
on the U.S. Senate floor.
Thank you.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Portman.
Senator Menendez, you are recognized to introduce Dean
Rouse.
STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROBERT MENENDEZ OF
NEW JERSEY
Senator Menendez. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and as a
senior Member of the Committee, I look forward to working with
you and incoming Chairman Brown on an important set of agendas
that I know the Committee will be pursuing.
Today it is a sincere honor to introduce Dr. Cecilia Elena
Rouse as President Biden's nominee for the Chair of the
Presidential Council of Economic Advisers.
Now, this is not the first time I have introduced Dr. Rouse
to this Committee. I had the same honor back in 2009 when
President Bush nominated her to the Council of Economic
Advisers during the height of the Great Recession. And as a
member of the Council, Dr. Rouse helped devise strategies to
strengthen our labor market and steer our country out of what
at the time was known as and we realized was the worst economic
crisis since the Great Depression.
Now she is once again being called on by a President to
serve our Nation in an hour of even greater peril and
uncertainty, this time as Chair. When she is confirmed, Dr.
Rouse will be the first African-American woman to chair the
President's Council of Economic Advisers.
Yet, aside from the historic nature of her nomination, Dr.
Rouse's experience in both the Obama and Clinton
administrations, as well as her academic expertise, make her
eminently qualified for this role.
As you pointed out, she currently serves as the dean of the
Princeton School of Public and International Affairs at
Princeton University, one of New Jersey's most prestigious and
nationally renowned institutions. Her primary research and
teaching interests are in labor economics, with a particular
focus on the economics of education. Indeed, Dr. Rouse has
often said that she first became interested in economics as a
tool to expand opportunity and create positive social change.
She has studied the economic benefits of community college
attendance, the effect of financial aid on college
matriculation, and the impact of student loan debt on graduates
entering the job market. She is also a strong advocate for
reducing racial wealth inequality, an important priority as we
grapple with a pandemic that has disproportionately devastated
minority communities.
Dr. Rouse is also a senior editor of The Future of Children
and has served as an editor of the Journal of Labor Economics.
Additionally, she is the founding director of the Princeton
University Education Research Section and former director of
the Industrial Relations Section.
I believe Dr. Rouse has the right experience and insight to
help chart a path for our country out of this crisis and toward
a brighter, more equitable, and more prosperous future for all
Americans. And I certainly will be urging my colleagues, both
on the Committee and in the Senate, to support her swift
confirmation as Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, and
I look forward to working with her to get our economy back on
track and bring much needed change and equity to our Nation.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Menendez.
Senator Booker, you are recognized to introduce Dean Rouse.
STATEMENT OF SENATOR CORY A. BOOKER OF NEW JERSEY
Senator Booker. Chairman, I am grateful to you and Senator
Brown as well for your leadership and for allowing me these
moments of introduction for Dr. Rouse.
If I may tread upon your grace, it is very hard for me to
see Martha Fudge sitting before you without putting on the
record just a touch of truth about her. I have been in the
Senate for 7 years, and it is not an overstatement to say that
one of my most invaluable colleagues and friends in that 7
years is Martha Fudge. She is an extraordinary woman who has a
deep kindness in her soul, and many of us who know her, she has
been a big sister, she has been a mentor, and that is most
certainly true in my life. I know she, like me, is a former
mayor. As a mayor, you get the skill of finding ways to bring
people together to create common ground. I saw those skills on
display when she was the Chairwoman of the Congressional Black
Caucus, which is a very diverse group, but also her ability
from that position to work across the aisle, find common
ground, and get things done.
And so I know this Committee will deal a lot with her
should she be confirmed, and I think as was said by Senator
Portman, you will find in her a goodness, a decency, and, God
willing, a friendship that I hope this Committee on both sides
of the aisle will recognize that it could be for you, as it has
been for me, one of the most valuable relationships I have.
The only warning I will give about her is do not try to
serve her vegan food like I did. That is the only time I have
seen her have harsh language to me.
And now I would like to have the honor of just saying
quickly some remarks about Dr. Rouse, who is President Biden's
nominee for the Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers. What
a privilege it is to be able to affirm what has already been
said by my senior Senator, Senator Menendez. If confirmed, Dr.
Rouse will be tasked with an enormous challenge of helping to
craft and guide our Nation's economic policy at a time of
unprecedented economic crisis.
Across this country, this Committee knows, tens of millions
of Americans have lost their jobs. Millions of our countrymen
and women in this wealthy Nation have been pushed into poverty,
food insecurity, with women especially suffering and challenges
being seen among people of color and women of color in
particular. The impact of this economic crisis has been savage
and unequal and has compounded a lot of the realities that were
already grievous in our country--systemic inequality, historic
disinvestment in Black and Brown communities like the one I
live in.
The Washington Post reported it most succinctly, and they
said that the COVID-19 recession is the most unequal in modern
U.S. history. The economic crisis and the resultant attendant
health crisis created by this pandemic have made clear how
interconnected the challenges are that we face. These crises
have also made clear how necessary it is for bold action and
bold leadership. We must have people with the kind of
competency, qualifications, and commitment that Dr. Rouse has.
If confirmed, I strongly believe that Dr. Rouse will offer
the kind of leadership, vision, and action needed to enact an
economic agenda that really prioritizes working families, that
rebuilds our economy in an inclusive way, and addresses
systemic barriers that have driven what is a real threat to our
society as we know it, which is the wealth and economic
inequalities that have grown worse over my lifetime. I do not
just say this because Senator Menendez, as he noted, that Dr.
Rouse is a proud New Jerseyan, dean of the School of Public and
International Affairs at Princeton University; but Dr. Rouse is
just renowned in her field. She is a well-known and celebrated
labor economist, a leader in academia and in the study of the
economic impact of diversity and inclusion, and knowing that
these are elements that are not nice to talk about but actually
add to the economic strength of organizations in our country,
public and private alike.
She is a public servant who has served as a member of the
Council of Economic Advisers in the Obama-Biden administration
and on the National Economic Council in the Clinton
administration as Special Assistant to President Clinton. If
confirmed, Dr. Rouse will serve as the first African-American
and fourth woman to lead the Council of Economic Advisers since
its establishment 74 years ago. If the Committee moves her
forward, it will be historic in that sense. She will not just
make history if confirmed, though. I am confident she will help
to shape a future that is more resonant with our common values
as a people, that she will be a force to making our Nation bend
the arc of that moral universe more toward liberty and justice
for all.
I urge my colleagues to swiftly confirm Dr. Rouse's
nomination. Thank you for this time.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Booker.
I will now swear in the nominees. Because of the remote
format of today's hearing, I will swear in each nominee
individually.
Congresswoman Fudge, will you please rise and raise your
right hand? Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you
are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Ms. Fudge. I do.
Senator Toomey. Do you agree to appear and testify before
any duly constituted committee of the Senate? Congresswoman
Fudge, can you hear me? We are having a little trouble with
your audio.
OK. Why don't we work on that technical challenge here, and
I will move on and ask Dr. Rouse if you will please rise and
raise your right hand. Dr. Rouse, do you swear or affirm that
the testimony that you are about to give is the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Ms. Rouse. I do.
Senator Toomey. And do you agree to appear and testify
before any duly constituted committee of the Senate?
Ms. Rouse. I do.
Senator Toomey. You may sit down.
Congresswoman Fudge, are you able to hear me? We cannot
hear your audio. OK. So I was going to recognize you first,
Congresswoman Fudge, but because we have this technical
difficulty, I am going to go to Dr. Rouse for her opening
statement, and then hopefully we will have gotten the problem
solved in the meantime. But we are not able to hear you.
Ms. Fudge. Can you hear me now, sir?
Senator Toomey. Now I can hear you, yes. So I am sorry to
impose on your again, but we could not hear your response to
the second question in the oath. So if you do not mind please
standing and raise your right hand again, the question is: Do
you agree to appear and testify before any duly constituted
committee of the Senate?
Ms. Fudge. Yes, I do.
Senator Toomey. Thank you very much. You may sit down.
Each of your written statements will be made a part of the
record in their entirety. Congresswoman Fudge, please proceed
with your statement.
STATEMENT OF MARCIA L. FUDGE, NOMINATED TO BE
SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN
DEVELOPMENT
Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. If I may, Mr.
Chairman, may I introduce my family that is with me today?
Senator Toomey. Absolutely, you may.
Ms. Fudge. Thank you. You have heard much about my mother
today, but I am going to have her wave at you, if they could
see her. And this is the rest, all of my family: my aunts, my
stepfather, all of my cousins, and dear friends. So I just
wanted you to be aware that we are all here together. I am
very, very close to my family, and I am pleased that they could
be with me today.
And to my Senators, thank you for your kind words and
certainly for your friendship.
Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member, I thank President Biden
for nominating me to serve as the 18th Secretary of Housing and
Urban Development and will do everything possible to ensure
that every American has a roof over their head.
The housing issues our Nation faces are real, varied, and
touch all of us. I am a strong believer in the Department's
programs and its mission--especially with regard to serving
those who face the greatest need.
Senators, I have dedicated my entire life to public service
and to working to help low-income families, seniors, and
communities. I believe I am up to the challenge that is before
me.
As mayor of Warrensville Heights, Ohio, I saw firsthand the
need for economic development and affordable housing. We
improved the city's tax base and expanded affordable housing
opportunities. As a Member of Congress, I tackled the unique
challenges of my district, working with my delegation and
across the aisle.
Our housing issues do not fit into a cookie-cutter mold,
and I know that the same is true in each of your States. We
need policies and programs that can adapt to meet your unique
housing challenges, and I would very much like to work with
each of you to find the right answers for your States.
It bears mentioning, particularly in this moment of crisis,
that HUD--perhaps more than any other department--exists to
serve the most vulnerable people in America. That mandate
matters a great deal to me. It is consistent with my own
values, and it is precisely what has always motivated me to
service.
It is estimated that, on any given night in 2019, more than
500,000 people experienced homelessness in America. That is a
devastating statistic--even before you consider the reality of
what COVID-19 has done to exacerbate this crisis.
According to one study, 21 million Americans currently pay
more than 30 percent of their income on housing. Because of
lost income and unemployment due to COVID, one in five renters
and one in ten homeowners with a mortgage are behind on their
housing payments.
Native housing is also in a crisis, with far too many
families living in substandard and crowded housing conditions
on reservations.
Although Congress provided $25 billion in rental assistance
and the CDC extended the eviction moratorium, this is not
enough at a time when tens of millions of Americans are behind
on rent, almost 3 million homeowners are currently in
forbearance, and another 800,000 borrowers are delinquent.
Much like COVID-19, the housing crisis is not isolated by
geography. It is the daily reality for tens of millions of our
fellow Americans--people in blue States and red States, in
cities and small towns.
My first priority as Secretary would be to alleviate that
crisis and get people the support they need to come back from
the edge.
We need to expand resources for HUD's programs to people
who are eligible. Today, according to a 2017 study, only one
out of five eligible households receive housing assistance.
We need to deliver on the Administration's commitments on
improving the quality, safety, and accessibility of affordable
housing and building 1.5 million new affordable homes.
We need to make the dream of home ownership a reality--and
the security and wealth creation that comes with it. It needs
to be a reality for all Americans. That will require us to end
discriminatory practices in the housing market and ensure that
our fair housing rules are doing what they are intended to do:
opening the door for families, especially families of color who
have been systematically kept out in the cold across
generations, to buy homes and punch their ticket to the middle
class.
There are so many issues we need to come together to
address--everything from bringing capital back to disinvested
communities, to increasing energy efficiency in housing, to
dealing with the dangers of lead-based paint, to taking on our
crisis of homelessness with compassion and resolve.
These are only some of the challenges, and I know that many
of you have additional priorities as well. These problems are
urgent, but they are not beyond our capacity to solve.
The only way we will meet them is by working together. And
to that end, I pledge this: If I have the honor of being
confirmed, I will be accessible to you, I will listen to you,
and I will be a partner to you to solve the housing challenges
our constituents are facing back home.
I expect you to hold me accountable. I welcome the
accountability. And I will always strive to be a transparent
and good-faith partner as we work together to do the vitally
important work we are all here to do: helping families in need.
I thank you, and I yield back.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Congresswoman Fudge.
Dean Rouse, please proceed.
STATEMENT OF CECILIA E. ROUSE, NOMINATED TO BE CHAIR, COUNCIL
OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS
Ms. Rouse. Thank you, and thank you, Senator Menendez and
Senator Booker, for the generous introductions.
Chair Toomey, incoming Chairman Brown, and Members of the
Committee, it is an honor to appear before you today. The last
time I was before this Committee was in 2009 for my
confirmation hearing to become a member of President Obama's
Council of Economic Advisers. I was accompanied by many members
of my family. This is a very different time, and while they are
not here today, they are with me in spirit. I thank them for
the love and support they have provided in helping me on the
path that has led me before you today.
That path began in the early 1980s during what was--at the
time--one of the worst spikes in unemployment our country had
experienced since the 1930s.
I was a freshman in college, taking my first economics
class. I was there because my wise mother had told me to take
an econ class. But what really piqued my interest was
unemployment, when I could see how classroom material could be
applied to the world outside and the millions who were
experiencing in real time the effects of a struggling economy.
I was drawn to the discipline because I wanted to know why
this was happening. Why had jobs disappeared? And what could be
done to bring them back? I focused my work on the labor market,
and in particular on the impact of education on people's job
prospects, ways to tear down barriers to job growth, and
policies to make it possible for more people to achieve long-
lasting economic security. Since then, I have had the honor of
working on these important issues in academia and the public
sector.
Today our country is living through the worst economic
crisis since the Great Depression. Millions of families have
had their lives turned upside down, the economic security they
have worked so hard to build eroded almost overnight by the
economic impact of the pandemic. Far too many have slipped
through our frayed safety net into hardship and hopelessness.
And structural inequities that have always existed within our
economy have not just been exposed, but exacerbated, their
impact more devastating than ever before.
We must take action to shepherd our Nation's economy back
onto solid footing. But as deeply distressing as this pandemic
and economic fallout have been, it is also an opportunity to
rebuild the economy better than it was before--making it work
for everyone by increasing the availability of fulfilling jobs
and leaving no one vulnerable to falling through the cracks.
President Biden and Vice President Harris have made these
the core values of their Build Back Better agenda. If
confirmed, my job will be to provide them with objective
economic guidance--recommendations rooted in fact and
evidence--to help them achieve those important goals.
As important as it is for the CEA to interpret and
translate data and academic research, it is also vital that we
utilize the right data. Too often economists focus on average
outcomes, instead of examining a range of outcomes. As a
result, our analyses tell us about average economic growth and
the middle of the distribution; but as our economy grows more
and more unequal, that analysis fails to capture the experience
of the many people who are left behind, particularly people of
color. Therefore, one of my priorities as Chair will be to try
to understand how policies will impact all in our country as we
strive to ensure the economy works for everyone.
Equally important is having analysis conducted by
economists who specialize in a variety of fields. If confirmed,
I will staff the CEA with a well-rounded team ready to address
the incredible breadth of challenges we face.
To close, I am honored to be nominated for this position.
It would allow me to work on issues close to my heart and so
critical in this current crisis. A good-paying, fulfilling job
has always been the key to building economic security. Today we
are seeing the immense pain caused when our economy fails to
fulfill that promise. But I believe there is much we can do to
strengthen the position of everyone across this incredible
country of ours.
If confirmed I will work closely with you on these
important priorities. I will do so regardless of your party
affiliation, your approach to various policies, or your opinion
of the Administration's efforts. Economists are trained to
gather and analyze information and consider innovative
perspectives. That is how I will approach this job, and my door
will always be open.
And with that, I am happy to take your questions.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Dr. Rouse.
I will now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questioning
and remind my colleagues that we have a lot of Members on this
Committee and we really need to try to stick to this clock.
Congresswoman Fudge, to go back to your quote from
September of 2020, you referred to Republicans who wanted to
fill Justice Ginsburg's seat, which is to say every single
Republican Senator, as ``having no decency, no honor, no
integrity, and as a disgrace to the Nation.'' Those are quotes.
Do you stand by that statement?
Ms. Fudge. Let me first say, Senator, that I think there
are more to those quotes, but let me just suggest that I have
always been able to work across the aisle. I have a reputation
that shows my bipartisanship. Yes, I do listen to my
constituents, and sometimes I am a little passionate about
things. Is my tone pitch perfect all the time? It is not. But I
do know this: that I have the ability and the capacity to work
with Republicans. And I intend to do just that, and that is my
commitment to you.
Senator Toomey. In June of last year, while discussing
Republican policing reform efforts, you said in part that if
Republicans ``want to save face and let this country know that
they care even a little bit about people of color, which I do
not believe they do, but if they want to try, I want to
listen.'' Do you really believe that Republicans do not care
even a little bit about people of color?
Ms. Fudge. I think the latter part of my statement is my
true feeling. If they do, I do want to listen. I listen. I have
always listened. I am one of the most bipartisan Members in the
House of Representatives, and I think that if you would check
that, my record would reflect that.
Senator Toomey. Let me ask you about the issue of deploying
the APA and complying with it. Congresswoman Fudge, President
Biden, as you probably know, has directed the HUD Secretary to
examine the effects of the HUD's 2020 disparate impact rule. If
you are confirmed and you carry out that examination, if you
conclude that revisions to the rule are, in fact, needed, will
you comply with the APA and go through a robust notice-and-
comment rulemaking rather than merely trying to revert
automatically back to the previous rule?
Ms. Fudge. That is a great question, Senator. I am going to
follow the law and follow the rules. You do not ever have to
worry about that. That is my commitment to you.
Senator Toomey. So there is some flexibility within the
APA, as you probably know. What I am specifically interested in
is whether you are willing to go through the notice-and-comment
period so that you can get as much input as possible and make
the most informed judgment going forward. Is that something you
are willing to do?
Ms. Fudge. It is something I am certainly willing to
consider, sir, yes.
Senator Toomey. OK. And I assume that you would ensure that
any revisions that you would make would be consistent with the
Supreme Court ruling in the Inclusive Communities decision?
Ms. Fudge. No question about it. I, again, will support the
law. But if I may, Senator?
Senator Toomey. Yes.
Ms. Fudge. I listened to your opening statement, and you
were talking about unintended consequences. I kind of look at
the disparate impact rule the same way. You know, we do things
oftentimes not intending to be discriminatory, but our effect
is discriminatory.
Senator Toomey. I understand that, and that is worthy of a
whole lengthy conversation. But in the interest of keeping to
my 5-minute limit, I just want to touch on another issue, if I
could, and that is the Mutual Mortgage Insurance Fund. Again,
this is a fund that protects taxpayers from losses. If you
decide to make changes, specifically any lowering of the
premiums for that fund, will you commit to making sure that you
do that in a collaborative fashion with Members of Congress?
Ms. Fudge. You have my commitment, not only will--if I am
fortunate enough to be confirmed, I will talk to the staff at
HUD. We will figure out what the status is right now and come
back to you to have discussions about where we should go from
there. You have my commitment.
Senator Toomey. Thank you.
Dr. Rouse, I appreciated our conversation the other day. I
enjoyed the discussion. I just want to stress--well, maybe I
would just ask, is it your view that when the Government
mandates a certain economic policy, it is often the case that
there are unintended consequences and costs to policies that
might also have benefits?
Ms. Rouse. Well, thank you, Senator. What is important is
that when the Government imposes mandates, that it does so
completely understanding the potential benefits of such
mandates as well as the costs, and to undertake those mandates
where the benefits would outweigh the costs. So if there is
[inaudible], the most important thing is to understand both
costs and benefits.
Senator Toomey. Thank you.
Senator Brown.
Senator Brown. First of all, I think the fact that Senator
Portman called Congresswoman Fudge and offered to cointroduce
her or introduce her tells you a lot about her bipartisan work.
And, you know, we all are outspoken about our views. Marcia is,
I am, Pat Toomey is, Rob Portman is. And I have just always
found Congresswoman Fudge to work with me, to work with most of
our House delegation in Ohio. It overwhelmingly is Republican,
and she works with them, and she represents her constituents
with fervor and passion through all of that.
Let me start with Congresswoman Fudge. As you know, before
this pandemic, as you pointed out, Dr. Rouse, borne out in both
your testimonies, families in our country were struggling to
make rent prior to the pandemic. There were nearly a million
evictions every year prior to this. We know the pandemic, as
you both have said, has pushed so many millions of families
over the edge. That is one of the reasons I am so proud of what
we did with the CARES Act, especially if we had kept it going,
because we kept 12 million people out of poverty.
Congresswoman Fudge, the emergency funds Congress voted to
provide in December were just a downpayment. As President Biden
and many of us in Congress have said, we have to do more to
prevent waves of foreclosures and evictions to stop millions of
people from taking a permanent financial hit because of the
crisis. Just give us a short version of what you will do
through HUD to ensure that families do not lose their homes?
Ms. Fudge. Thank you so much, Senator. You know, one of the
things we must do is stabilize the market. We cannot afford to
have people, millions of people, evicted from their homes or
their apartments, because the problem then just gets worse. It
does not get better. And I understand that there are some who
believe that we are doing more than we should, but I believe we
are not doing enough.
On any given day, we have 8 million people who need
housing. So not only do we need to protect those who are
currently in housing, but we need to ensure that those who are
without housing get it.
And so one of the things that we have to talk about is
finding ways to expand our inventory of low- and moderate-
income housing. We have to keep people in public housing who
are already there. We need to expand housing choice vouchers so
that we can at least start to reduce the numbers of people who
are paying exorbitant amounts of money for rent.
We also need to find ways to assist people who want to
build low-income and affordable housing, and we do that through
many things. But, last, and most importantly, we want to be
sure that FHA is available for people who want to take the next
step. So that may be helping with downpayment assistance; it
may mean reducing rent. Whatever it takes, we cannot afford to
allow people in the midst of a pandemic to be put in the
streets. I just believe that extraordinary times take
extraordinary action, and we are in extraordinary times,
Senator.
Senator Brown. Thank you, Congresswoman. Let me ask you a
quick up-or-down question. In the past 4 years, the Trump
administration--I mean a yes-or-no question. The Trump
administration tried to undo HUD's mission to enforce fair
housing laws. You and I have talked about that a lot. Earlier
this week, the President announced several Executive orders and
plans to begin to reverse these policies and finally work to
fulfill the promises of the Fair Housing Act.
My question: If confirmed, will you commit to fully enforce
fair housing laws?
Ms. Fudge. Yes.
Senator Brown. Good. Thank you.
I will close with a statement both to Dr. Rouse and to
Congresswoman Fudge. Cities like Cleveland still have far too
many homes that expose children to dangerous lead paint. In
2019, researchers found there were elementary schools in Marcia
Fudge's and my hometown of Cleveland where more than a third of
kindergartners had elevated lead levels in their blood, 5- and
6-year-olds, disproportionately, of course, as we know,
children of color. We start them out in life with such a
disadvantage.
Dr. Rouse, you are a researcher who studies education and
its connection to work. You know the cost, both moral and
economic, that occurs when our fellow citizens are unable to
achieve their full potential, especially when it starts
[inaudible]. We know how to keep kids safe from lead poisoning.
We are seeing some promising steps in Cleveland and elsewhere.
My colleague Senator Reed, the most senior Member of this
Committee, has worked on this in his appropriations role also.
We just have not had the public collective political will to do
it.
I hope that that is going to change. I look forward to
working with both of you, Dr. Rouse and Congresswoman Fudge, to
fully protect our kids from lead and other threats to their
health. It is hard to imagine anything so important.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Brown.
Senator Scott.
Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To Congresswoman
Fudge as well as Dr. Rouse, thank you for your willingness to
serve our country, and I look forward to having a meaningful
dialogue about some of the issues that will be very important
to the Nation. And, frankly, Congresswoman Fudge, I have
respect for you and appreciation for your willingness to serve.
And I think you and I are philosophically disjointed on a
number of issues, but your willingness to serve is strong.
I do want to talk a little bit about some of the previous
comments that you have made about the Republican Party as it
relates to race that I think--I cannot say that your comments
were taken out of context. I would simply say that I would love
to have a longer conversation about how effective the
Republican Party has been on meeting some of the needs of the
most vulnerable people in this country, specifically
minorities, over the last several years. I have certainly
played a role in making sure that some of the priorities that
impact our community have been brought to the surface, to the
top, and have been prioritized by the Republican Party. And
just to name a few, and then I am going to get to the questions
that I have, highest level of funding for HBCUs in the history
of this country; permanent funding for the first time in the
history of the country; the lowest unemployment rate ever
recorded prepandemic in the history of the country for African-
Americans, Hispanics, Asians; 60-year low for women as well;
research on rare blood diseases to include sickle cell anemia;
criminal justice reform that actually, frankly, made up for
some of the challenges of President Biden's 1994 law; increases
in the labor force participation rate. I believe in 2016 home
ownership for African-Americans was around 41 percent; today it
is around 46 percent. And that is even after the dip of the
pandemic.
Poverty at the lowest rate recorded since 1959; aid to
Black farmers that I have worked on through heirs' property,
focusing on heirs' property as a real issue. Coming from the
South, I know and understand and appreciate the value of
allowing African-American farmers to use heirs' property in a
way to obtain a farm number so that they can participate fully
in the USDA. It is really important. And, finally, opportunity
zones that are having a positive, strong impact throughout this
country, and, frankly, the TCJA certainly was passed on a
partisan level only, but the opportunity zone legislation is
legislation that was cosponsored by Cory Booker and House
Members that are Democrats and Republicans.
To that end, I hope and my question for you is can I count
on you to take serious the opportunity to use opportunity zones
as a way of meeting some of the challenging needs that we have
from our housing stock around the country?
Ms. Fudge. Thank you so much, Senator Scott. It is nice to
see you, actually.
Senator Scott. Yes, ma'am, thank you.
Ms. Fudge. And it is my pleasure to have a conversation
with you about what you have done as it relates to minority
communities and communities that are hurting. It would indeed
be something that I would like to discuss with you.
As it relates to opportunity zones, I will take seriously,
of course, opportunity zones. Certainly I would like, if
confirmed, to get into the office and look at how many jobs
have been created, how many sustainable jobs have been created,
what the cost has been. I mean, I think that you have to be
driven by data, and I will absolutely take it seriously. I know
it is something important to you, and I would be happy to have
those conversations with you going forward.
Senator Scott. Thank you. I will note that in opportunity
zones they are responsible for helping, even in Columbus, Ohio,
50 incarcerated individuals in Columbus find housing, 95 units
of workforce housing, 100 new jobs in Cleveland; in my State,
Hampton County, a very poor rural community, 1,500 jobs in the
community, only has 5,000 jobs brought to them by opportunity
zones, and that continues throughout major cities, from
Birmingham to Rock Hill, South Carolina, where we are using
opportunity zones to really challenge the playing field for
those folks who have been left out and who are desperate for
housing.
Speaking of being desperate for housing, about 22 million
Americans live in manufactured housing throughout this country,
one in five in South Carolina. The definition of ``manufactured
housing'' is no longer the trailers that people have in mind.
Manufactured housing has the diversity within its construct,
and I would love to hear that you have an interest and perhaps
even a passion for making sure that we continue to prioritize
manufactured housing as one of the ways for us to lower the
cost and make more homeowners--make home ownership more
possible for more Americans. Have you done any homework on the
manufactured housing? And I would love to hear your thoughts on
using that to meet some of the needs that we have throughout
the community.
Ms. Fudge. Yes, I have as a matter of fact. Thank you for
the question. I have done research. I have actually had
conversations with those who build manufactured housing. I
think it is an outstanding option. The cost is about $78,000 to
$100,000 a home. It is affordable. It is something we can do
rapidly. I am 100 percent supportive of looking more into how
we incorporate manufactured housing.
Senator Scott. Thank you, ma'am.
Thank you, Chairman.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Scott.
Senator Reed.
Senator Reed. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I want
to welcome Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse to the hearing.
Dr. Rouse, thank you for your service to Rhode Island as a
member of the board of trustees of URI, so, go Rhody. And I
want to say to the Congresswoman thank you for your great work
in the Congress.
We have all touched upon affordable housing, and sometimes
we see it simply as the human cost, which is tremendous. But
there is a definite economic cost, too, which should be an
incentive to build more affordable housing.
In Rhode Island, for example, 90 percent of our homeless
individuals are on Medicaid, and their cost per annum is about
$14,000. That is 80 percent more than the overall average
Medicaid recipient. So when you address the affordable housing
issue, I hope you will point out consistently the economic
benefits of affordable housing as well as the human cost. Any
comments, I would appreciate it, Congresswoman.
Ms. Fudge. Yes, and thank you, Senator, for the
conversation we have had to discuss some of the issues that I
know are important to you.
The economic costs are in the trillions. I mean, if you
look at the data, the data shows that it is an economic
deterrent to not have people in housing. When you look at the
lost jobs, the lost income, and the lost development
opportunities, it is more difficult for people to get to work,
so we lose so much when we do not have decent, affordable
public housing. And the cost of homelessness is just
skyrocketing. It was bad before we ever addressed COVID. Now
what we have found out is that the cost of care for homeless
people is skyrocketing as a result of COVID, because homeless
people tend to be sicker. Homeless people tend to contract the
disease more often. Poorer people or people who live in public
housing tend to contract the disease more often. And so it is a
very costly proposition just physically as well as
economically.
Senator Reed. Thank you very much, Congresswoman, and let
me associate myself also with Senator Brown's comments on lead.
We have had the same problem in Rhode Island as you have had in
Cleveland because we probably have about the same age of
housing. I have worked very closely with Chairman Collins on
the Appropriations Committee to get funding for lead. But one
of the things I would just like to point out, as you recognized
very clearly, with the pandemic more particularly low-income
people are spending time crowded in a home which might have
lead problems. So the problem is even more acute today because
of the pandemic, and we have to apply the resources to that. I
know you agree, but I just want to get that on the record.
Ms. Fudge. Yes, thank you. I agree 100 percent.
Senator Reed. Thank you.
Again, Dr. Rouse, thank you for your help to Rhode Island.
As I said before, go Rhody. Senator Toomey and I both have
certain ties to the State, so we appreciate your help to the
university.
One issue I want to raise in my brief time remaining is
automatic stabilizers for unemployment insurance. In Rhode
Island, at the last recession, you noticed, because you were
working in the Administration, that some States came out first
so that the overall national picture looked pretty good, but
Rhode Island and Nevada were going head to head every week as
to who would have the highest unemployment rate at about 12
percent.
So as we go forward, I would hope you would consider
automatic stabilizers so that certain parts of the country--and
it is not one region, perhaps; it is based on lots of factors--
would not be left behind when the overall economy starts
growing. Your comments, Doctor?
Ms. Rouse. Thank you, Senator Reed, and, yes, go Rhody. So
I think automatic stabilizers are an important tool in our
toolkit as we think about how we deal with our economic
slowdowns and help families and our economy recover. We already
have them in terms of SNAP and Medicaid and taxes, and so, you
know, they should be part of it.
I think URI is a natural place for us to also have
automatic stabilizers. Obviously, incorporating the differences
across the country by geography would be an important part of
any design. There are challenges there, but I do think that
that is an important place for us [inaudible].
Senator Reed. Well, thank you very much, both of you. Good
luck. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Reed.
I just want to remind Senators to please turn on your
camera if you are present and intending to speak so that we
know that you are there. And I think next up is Senator Cotton.
Senator Cotton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Congresswoman Fudge, President Biden and his senior
advisers have said that one of his top housing priorities is
racial equity, not racial equality. In fact, earlier this week,
President Biden used the phrase ``racial equity'' at a press
availability but immediately corrected himself to say ``racial
equity.'' [sic]
What is the difference between racial equity and racial
equality?
Ms. Fudge. Thank you for the question, Senator. From my own
perspective, the difference is that one just means that you
treat everybody the same. Sometimes the same is not equitable.
You know, if you say to me that ``I am going to give you $5''
and you are going to give my friend $5, my $5 is not going to
necessarily go as far because my friend already has a mother
and father who are wealthy and they are giving them--let us do
it this way: home ownership. Let us take it that way. They say
let us make everything equal. But it is not equal because even
though I meet all of the qualifications to qualify for a loan--
you know, I have got the right credit scores, et cetera, but I
do not have downpayment money because my parents cannot afford
to give me a downpayment, there is no wealth coming to me,
where most people who are not--that do not look like me have
options that I do not have.
So just to say to treat us all the same is not the same.
Equity means making the playing field level. Sometimes it is
not level if you just say, ``Let us just treat everybody the
same.''
Senator Cotton. All right. So racial equality means
treating everyone the same, correct?
Ms. Fudge. Yeah, the same, though it is not always fair.
That is correct.
Senator Cotton. So just to be clear, then, it sounds like
racial equity means treating people differently based on their
race. Is that correct?
Ms. Fudge. Not based on race, but it could be based on
economics; it could be based on the history of discrimination
that has existed for a long time. It could be based on
educational levels. It could be based on many things, not
necessarily just race.
Senator Cotton. Is it ever appropriate for the Government
to treat people differently based on their race?
Ms. Fudge. No.
Senator Cotton. Thank you.
I want to return to something that came up with Senator
Toomey. You had said last year, September 2020, during the
debate about Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's vacancy on the
Supreme Court in a floor speech, ``Those who are bent on
choosing her successor have no decency, they have no honor,
they have no integrity.'' You later said, ``They are a disgrace
to this Nation.''
If I recall correctly, Pat Toomey wanted to replace Justice
Ginsburg on the bench. Do you believe that Pat Toomey has no
decency, has no honor, has no integrity, and is a disgrace to
this Nation?
Ms. Fudge. Sir, first off, I do not really know Senator
Toomey. I am certain that he is not. He seems like a fine man
to me.
Senator Cotton. Your audio cut out there for a moment. I
will just say----
Ms. Fudge. Can you hear me now?
Senator Cotton. Yes, ma'am. I will say for the record that
I believe that Senator Toomey has decency, honor, and
integrity.
I want to turn to another moment last year. In June 2020,
around the debate about policing reform, you said that, ``We
have them''--``them'' being Republicans--``on the run, quite
frankly. Right now the President has Tim Scott trying to come
up with a bill, and so they know they must do something, and
they know they cannot do it without us. So if they want to save
face and let this country know that they care even a little bit
about people of color, which I do not believe they do, but if
they want to try, I want to listen.''
Congresswoman Fudge, do you believe that Tim Scott does not
care even a little bit about people of color?
Ms. Fudge. Tim Scott happens to be a friend. I support and
trust Tim Scott.
Senator Cotton. Could you answer my question, please? You
have said that, `` . . . if they care even a little bit about
people of color, which I do not believe they do''--referring to
Republicans, of which Tim Scott is one--do you believe he cares
even a little bit about people of color?
Ms. Fudge. He is one, but he is not--I was not talking
about all Republicans. Tim Scott clearly is a fine, upstanding
Senator, and I do believe he cares.
Senator Cotton. OK. Thank you, Congresswoman Fudge.
I could go on. There is a long history of intemperate
comments such as this. Obviously, all of us in public life
sometimes say things that we hope we could take back. But if
you are confirmed, you are going to be serving the needs of
many, many Republicans as well as Democrats and nonpartisan
people as well, and I hope that in the future you can serve
them in a way that reflects your best moments in Congress and
not some of these comments.
Thank you.
Ms. Fudge. Well, certainly I thank you, and I do serve
people now, Republicans and Democrats, quite well. Thank you.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Cotton.
Senator Menendez.
Senator Menendez. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will
just make a comment. You know, if intemperate comments or harsh
comments are the standard, I presided as the Ranking Member of
the Senate Foreign Relations Committee over an enormous number
of individuals who would have never gotten through the
Committee, and certainly Republicans overwhelmingly voted for
them, and their comments might have been seen in the same
context. I understand the nature of political comments at the
end of the day, and I believe from everything I have seen of
Congresswoman Fudge that she will work for all people--
Democrats, Republicans, Independents, White, Black, Brown,
Native Americans, and others.
Let me just turn to the question of eviction and housing
crisis that displaces millions of American families and further
destabilizes our country. As of this month, 2.7 million
homeowners are in forbearance plans. As of last month, nearly
one in five adult renters were not caught up on rent. And as
with any American crisis, the situation is particularly dire
for minority communities. Talk about equity and those issues.
As of last month, 28 percent of Black renters and 24
percent of Latino renters said they were not caught up on their
rent compared to only 12 percent of White renters. So in
previous crises, housing counseling has helped families stay in
their homes.
Congresswoman Fudge, do you believe providing additional
funding for housing counseling would help prevent evictions and
foreclosures in this crisis as well?
Ms. Fudge. Thank you so much for the question, Senator. I
absolutely do believe that counseling is a major part of
assisting people, whether it is staying in their homes or
continuing to pay their rent. We have programs that are
available to people that they are not aware of because we do
not provide the resources to make them aware. So counseling
should be at the top of our list, especially as we try to work
our way out of this crisis.
Senator Menendez. Well, I agree with you very much. As a
matter of fact, according to the National Community
Reinvestment Coalition, for example, loans to homebuyers that
receive counseling perform better, and in 2017, 74 percent of
housing counseling clients were people of color. That is why I
hope you will work with me in helping me pass my Coronavirus
Housing Counseling Investment Act, something I think that would
help all of our families.
Under the last Administration, HUD relocated key
multifamily housing staff from its office in Newark to the New
York Regional Office. As former mayors, we both understand that
represents a significant challenge for the over 750 multifamily
properties that exist in New Jersey. Can you commit to me that
you will ensure that the Newark office has the staff it needs
and that New Jersey and its interests remain a priority with
HUD?
Ms. Fudge. Yes, I can commit that to you, sir.
Senator Menendez. Thank you.
Dr. Rouse, last week I asked Secretary Yellen about the
importance of providing fiscal relief to our State and local
governments so they can continue to fight the pandemic and keep
our essential workers on the job and off the unemployment line.
She agreed that now would not be the time to withhold fiscal
support from State and local governments. Do you agree with
that?
Ms. Rouse. Yes, Senator, I do share Janet Yellen's view,
which is that our prime focus right now has to be on getting us
through this pandemic, to provide aid to our households, to our
businesses, especially small businesses. But, also we need to
ensure that our State and local governments can be providing
for the firefighters, the transit workers, the first
responders, and our educators as they are stepping up in ways
that they would not have budgeted for last year.
I would also highlight that in the Great Recession not
providing relief to--well, we provided relief to State and
local governments, but it was the job losses there that
provided a drag on the recovery. And so, again, to ensure that
we have a swift return back to economic health, providing aid
to State and local governments is part of that package.
Senator Menendez. Thank you.
And, finally, Congresswoman Fudge, I appreciated the visit
that we had. Eight years ago, New Jersey faced the worst
natural disaster in our State's history, Superstorm Sandy,
causing havoc throughout the State. And New Jersey families are
now finding themselves, after having traveled the convoluted
procedures, where they got some assistance from FEMA and from
HUD to rebuild their lives, get them back in, but now finding
themselves being caught in a maze in which there is an effort
to claw back some of those monies. I hope that you can work
with us to provide flexibility [inaudible] these survivors in
New Jersey.
Ms. Fudge. Absolutely, Senator, and I appreciate your
informing me and getting me up to speed on the situation, and
if confirmed, it will be one of the early things that I take a
look at.
Senator Menendez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Menendez.
Senator Rounds.
Senator Rounds. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Congresswoman Fudge, first of all, thank you very much for
the opportunity yesterday to visit with you. I appreciated our
conversation. As I discussed with you at that time, I had
suspected that a number of my colleagues, before I had the
opportunity to speak, would address the issues of some of the
statements that you made in the past, and I would like to move
on to another particular area of concerns that I have got that
we may very well find some agreement on, and that has to do
with our Native Americans and the housing shortages on the
reservations.
I represent a State, South Dakota, that has nine tribes,
all of whom are sovereign and who have a lot of their land in
what we call ``trust'' or ``treaty trust tribes.'' I would like
to draw your attention to a provision of the last omnibus
funding bill that I championed that would streamline HUD's
Section 184 lending program.
As I mentioned in our conversation, lending tribal trust
land is a rather difficult process, and the HUD 184 loans that
are meant to provide mortgage credit where it is scarce can be
delayed by a slow exchange of vital information between the BIA
and HUD. The provision that I led would allow HUD to issue the
certificates of guarantee per a 184 loan without waiting for
the BIA if the lender originating the loan agrees to indemnify
HUD for any losses. This would significantly streamline the
program, but HUD will still have to proactively work with the
individual lenders and housing organizations that serve Native
Americans in order for the Section 184 program to be
successful. A lot of them are very local lenders, and they know
how to handle a lot of the individuals that are there and the
challenges they have on a personal basis in order to get that
loan approved.
But if confirmed, will you commit to work with me and our
Native American stakeholders in South Dakota to making the HUD
Section 184 lending program a success?
Ms. Fudge. Thank you again, Senator, for meeting with me.
Yes, you have my commitment to work with you. I have had the
opportunity to reach out to a number of Native American
stakeholders. We have had conversations about some of the
issues that you have addressed. And I know firsthand from
having been on a reservation how difficult that situation is. I
am totally supportive of working with you to see what we can do
to make things better.
Senator Rounds. Thank you.
Dr. Rouse, I would like to thank you also for your
willingness to have a phone call with us and also for your
willingness to serve. As I mentioned in our phone conversation,
there have been significant economic disparities between States
like South Dakota, where social distancing comes naturally, and
larger, more populated States that have experienced a
significant spread of COVID-19. I also understand that your
role will involve providing counsel to the President on
economic matters.
How do you believe future COVID-19 assistance can be
targeted for those who need it most while being mindful of the
fact that we are long into the territory of spending money that
basically we are going to be borrowing? And by that, I mean, I
know that we talk about State and local governments, but the
need and the demand varies a lot from State to State, and
trying to target the assistance seems to be a really sensitive
issue right now.
Can you talk a little bit about how you are planning on
balancing your recommendations to the President, recognizing
that we still have needs, but also recognizing that every
single dollar that we intend to offer is money that we will be
borrowing and probably the next two generations will have to
pay back?
Ms. Rouse. Yes, Senator, thank you, and I appreciated our
conversation yesterday. So if we take a step back and think
about the purpose of the Federal assistance right now, it is
that we want to both provide assistance to people today while
ensuring that our economy grows so that future generations are
better off. So I [inaudible] is to get us to the other side of
this pandemic and help ensure that our economy----
Senator Rounds. Dr. Rouse, I apologize. You are cutting
out, and so what I would do, with the permission of the Chair,
is I will put this in as a question for the record, and I will
just simply ask if you could get back with me on that
particular one. Thank you, Dr. Rouse.
Let me move back to Congresswoman Fudge for just a second.
We did not have the opportunity to address this in our
conversation yesterday, but one of the major outstanding issues
from the 2008 financial crisis is housing finance reform. HUD
does not have a primary jurisdiction over this matter, but,
nonetheless, your work on housing will be important in deciding
what to do with the GSEs.
Are there any thoughts you would like to share with us as
to what should happen with Fannie and Freddie or what an exit
from conservatorship should look like?
Ms. Fudge. Thank you, Senator. You know, the one thing I
would say is that one of the things we have not done as a
Nation is have a holistic approach to housing. At some point we
need to have a collaborative discussion between FHA, between
FHFA, Treasury, HUD, and I would say that this is such a huge
issue and has such big implications for the market. We are
talking about a $5 trillion business.
I believe that just as Congress has chartered these GSEs,
it is Congress' ultimate decision as to how they should be
handled. I believe that the Congress--that this is such a big
issue that Congress should make that decision.
Senator Rounds. Thank you. I look forward to working with
you on that issue in the future.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Fudge. Thank you.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Rounds.
Senator Tester.
Senator Tester. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want
to start by thanking both Congresswoman Fudge and Cecilia Rouse
for being here today, and I appreciate your willingness to
serve.
I just want to spin off of Senator Rounds' last point, and
it is a point you made, Congresswoman Fudge. There are so many
times in Government--I mean, we were justice talking about
broadband yesterday. There are four or five agencies that deal
with broadband. You just talked about the number of agencies
that are dealing with housing.
You know very well, being a Congressperson, that Congress
is not really renowned for getting things done. That is why we
have the number of Executive orders that have gone out over the
last few Administrations. And I would appreciate--I think you
are right. Congress does need to act. But in the meantime, I
would appreciate it if you can break down the silos in the
housing arena in particular, because I think that is one of the
boat anchors on our economy.
In that regard, I wanted to visit with you a little bit
about in your position at HUD, what will you do to support
affordable workforce housing and rehabilitation?
Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much, and thank you for our
visit. Certainly HUD's mission is to provide housing, low-
income and affordable housing. So I support that mission by
saying that we need to expand, as we talked about, expand
housing choice vouchers. It is something that we must do. We
need to find resources to assist with paying rents, with
downpayments.
We all know that when we come out of this crisis, whenever
that is, people are not going to just be able to say, you know,
``I am 14 months behind in rent, and I can just pay it all back
right now.'' We know that is not going to happen. And so we
have to come up with a cohesive policy to allow people to know
that the Government is going to be assisting them, and we have
many ways to do it.
Certainly FHFA comes within the control, under the
jurisdiction, but the others do not. But I again believe that
the only way that we solve any of these problems is to do it
through interagencies, to talk about what that policy should
be, and that is the only way we solve these issues, is to come
together and agree.
Senator Tester. OK. Thank you. Also spinning off of Senator
Rounds' comment on Indian country, I would hope that you have
somebody in HUD, if you are confirmed, have somebody in HUD
that is able to deal with the myriad of programs that impact
Indian housing, because it is incredibly deficient.
Senator Booker was on earlier today, and we have had a
conversation about poverty in inner cities and poverty with
large land-based Indian tribes. They are both significant
problems, and I hope that you have somebody in your agency that
is willing to work with the BIA to make sure that we get some
housing built in Indian country because, quite frankly, it is
massively deficient. You do not need to respond to that. Just
do that, if you could, if you are confirmed.
My last question is for Cecilia Rouse. Cecilia--and I
should have said this with Congresswoman Fudge--thank you for
meeting with us. I appreciate the conversation we had. We are
in the middle of a pandemic which has caused the economy to go
into recession, depression some will say. It depends on what
area of business you are in.
I want to know your perspective as we are talking about
borrowed money, and it has been talked about a lot and is
certainly a concern to me. But I want to know your perspective
on how we spend money right now, especially if it is borrowed,
as you said, to move the country out of a potential decline and
into economic growth again.
Ms. Rouse. Thank you, Senator, and I apologize for my
connection. I am trying with an earpiece now. So I do believe
that the best way for us to get back on solid economic footing
is by getting through this pandemic, and that means supporting
households, supporting businesses, especially small businesses,
supporting our State and local governments.
If we do not, we run the risk of actually finding ourselves
in a downward spiral, because the capacity to deal with our
debt is not only the amount that we spend but the size of our
economy. And if we want to keep our economy going, we need to
be spending some money.
So I believe we have to be doing smart investments as we
come out of this that have economic returns such as those on
investments in infrastructure, R&D, education, so that we again
put our economy on a strong footing so that it is growing and
there for future generations.
Senator Tester. And I assume when you say ``smart
investments,'' you are saying that monies that are appropriated
by Congress need to be targeted.
Ms. Rouse. They need to be targeted. They need to be smart.
They need to be in those areas where we know that the economic
benefit outweighs the cost.
Senator Tester. Thank you both for your willingness to
serve.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Tester.
Senator Tillis.
Senator Tillis. Thank you, Chairman Toomey and incoming
Chairman Brown. And thanks to Congresswoman Fudge and Dean
Rouse for being here. And congratulations to your family,
Congresswoman. I loved seeing my mom in the background. I am
glad yours is there, too.
A real quick question for you, Congresswoman Fudge. Do you
recognize the backlog of the pending HUD code changes passed by
the Manufactured Housing Consensus Committee? Do you recognize
those as things that need to be fixed?
Ms. Fudge. Yes, sir, I do.
Senator Tillis. And on a related note, Congresswoman, I
remember when I was Speaker of the House down in North
Carolina, I met with a town that was in my district, and it was
on affordable housing, which I supported significantly in North
Carolina. About 45 minutes went on things that we could do
produce affordable housing. Then they requested that I support
a bill that would mandate a sprinkler in single-family housing
for fire suppression, which for a $100,000 home would increase
the cost of the home by about $15,000. It really made me start
thinking about barriers to affordable housing that could
potentially be an overreach in certain communities. I had this
discussion with Dr. Carson about when we have to prioritize
limited funds for affordable housing.
What are your thoughts on potentially looking at
jurisdictions that have a need for affordable housing but may
have overreached on the barriers to that purely through
regulatory overreach as a means for kind of prioritizing where
we put these limited dollars to address affordable housing
problems?
Ms. Rouse. Well, thank you for the question, Senator. I
think everything is on the table. I mean, we have to look at
regulations. We also have to look at safety. We have to be sure
that if we want to put people in housing, we have to do it in
the most efficient, effective, and safe way.
So I believe all of those things are on the table and would
be something that I would be happy to discuss with you and take
a good look at.
Senator Tillis. Well, thank you. If confirmed, I would like
to talk about things that we absolutely have to regulate to
make sure that people have a safe home, but maybe let the
regulatory burden in certain jurisdictions be instructive
toward grants and other things that they may be eligible for.
So, again, Congresswoman Fudge and family, congratulations
on your nomination. And, Congresswoman, thank you for your
service, long-time service to your community.
Dean Rouse, I have got a question. Before COVID hit, we had
an economy that I think by most measures was moving in the
right direction, and I believe that part of that were some of
the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act--not all of it. There are other
factors, but were a significant contributing factor to the
economic growth. We understand that President Biden is going to
propose tax increases, and particularly corporate tax
increases. What is your position on how we move forward and
best position our economy to grow as we continue to make
progress on the vaccine and reopen the economy? Do you think
that increasing corporate taxes is called for?
Ms. Rouse. Senator Tillis, thank you for that question. You
have really landed on an important question, which is that we
understand that now in order to get to the other side of the
pandemic, we need to--the Federal Government needs to step in.
But as we get to the other side and get back on the path for
economic growth, I think it is important that we look at the
Federal budget in totality and think about the important
investments that we need to make in order to improve economic
growth, but also understand how are we going to pay for those
investments now.
So I believe we should be taking a comprehensive look at
that. The President has committed in saying that he wants to
look at an array of tax options, but that he believes that
individuals and corporations should pay their fair share. So
this is not to say that there is just an automatic repeal of
the tax credits that were passed before, but we need to look at
the most important ways that we can both raise revenue in the
most economically efficient way possible, but that ensuring
that everybody is paying their fair share.
Senator Tillis. Thank you. I will be submitting questions
for the record to both of you. Thank you very much and, again,
congratulations on your nominations.
Ms. Rouse. Thank you.
Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Tillis.
Senator Warner.
Senator Warner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you,
incoming Chair Brown. Congratulations to both the nominees. I
enjoyed our conversations together.
I am going to direct most of my comments this morning to
Dr. Rouse, but as Congresswoman Fudge knows, particularly on
housing finance reform, this is an issue that is
extraordinarily important to me, and I look forward to
revisiting it with you once you are confirmed.
Dr. Rouse, one of the things that came out of the first
CARES package that I think was extraordinarily significant long
term was that when we did the expansion of unemployment, there
were two component parts, as we all know: one part, the $600-a-
week plus-up, which was relatively controversial; the other
part that I think there was broad-based support for was the
expansion to cover the self-employed, gig workers, independent
contractors, a whole host of folks. We have discussed that
universe of workers, and that type of work is not going away.
I think it is terribly important that we have a social
contract that includes all forms of work. I hope there will be
a further expansion of benefits to those workers, including a
component of portability, something that I have worked with
Members of the Committee on for a long time.
Can you speak to how we continue--sticking with
unemployment to start, how we continue this commitment to
unemployment in this expanded basis? Obviously, it was
continued in the December COVID package. I was proud of that.
But at some point, it cannot be an entirely Federal Government
obligation. We have got to have those payers kicking in as
well. But can you speak to your goal for how we make sure
unemployment covers all forms of work?
Ms. Rouse. Senator, I share your interest and commitment to
this issue, and, in fact, I will say it is part of what draws
me to this potential opportunity, and I think it is part of the
better part of Build Back Better, and that is to recognize that
much of our social contract, as you describe it, was designed
in the 1930s. It was designed for a labor contract or
relationship between workers and their employers, which is
quite different than what we have today.
So if we take our UI system, for example, today the system
is not providing the kind of safety net that it used to do.
Many workers are not covered. I think it is less than half of
workers are actually covered. The replacement rate has been
falling. It was designed for short-term unemployment spells,
and what we are observing in our most recent recessions is that
unemployment spells are becoming longer and our UI system was
not designed to help there. And yet we know that for both to
help workers get through and for economic stability, UI plays
an important part of that role.
So I share your view. I look forward to working with you
and others. I think broadening the base of workers that are
covered is important. Whether that is with portable benefits,
whether that is how we classify workers, there are many options
that are on the table. And if confirmed, I would want to work
with my team and work with all of you to find ways to what I
will call modernize our UI system and modernize other parts of
our safety net so that it reflects and honors the changing
nature of work in our economy.
Senator Warner. Well, thank you. Let me quickly get in my
next question, which is: We want to make sure this economic
recovery is equitable. Again, I think we took a major step
forward. I want to thank so many of my colleagues on both sides
of the aisle, particularly folks like Tim Scott and Mike Crapo.
When we included the Jobs and Neighborhood Investment Act in
the last COVID package, which puts $12 billion into CDFIs and
MDIs--Senator Brown has been an big advocate of this,
Congresswoman Fudge on the House side, making sure there was
equitable actual to capital. We have got to make sure we
implement that program right because we clearly saw Black and
Brown businesses get disproportionately hurt by COVID, and
implementing that program correctly is going to be really
important.
Another component is the fact that, you know, in the Great
Recession we saw three-quarters of the jobs that were lost were
jobs that only required a high school education. Coming
forward, we are seeing that, you know, three-quarters of the
jobs that are being created require a college-based education.
We can attack that at the student debt level, but we can also
attack it on incentives to have businesses start investing in
human capital. You and I have talked about the idea of changing
our tax and accounting treatment of businesses that invest in
human capital, and you may want to take this for the record
because my question--I have used up all my time, and I will not
ask you give full remarks here. I think John Kennedy is waiting
anxiously. But I hope you--you know, I know we have talked
about this before, but I hope we can really continue this
conversation on an equitable economic recovery.
Ms. Rouse. I would be happy to do so. Thank you.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Warner, for respecting
the clock.
Senator Kennedy.
Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Congresswoman, can you hear me OK?
Ms. Fudge. Yes, I can hear you fine.
Senator Kennedy. OK. First, it is an honor to meet you. I
do not want to put too fine a point on this, but it is
important to me personally to clear up the confusion that I
have from your answer to one of Chairman Toomey's questions. I
think it is accurate that you did say at one point that
Republicans do not care about people of color, even a little
bit. And I would like to know if you truly believe that.
Ms. Fudge. Senator, thank you. I also said that if they do,
I would be happy to listen. And I am certainly always willing
to listen to not only my constituents but my colleagues. And I
would suggest to you very, very strongly that there has never
been a time in my entire public service career that I have not
supported and worked with all people. And I commit to you I
will do just that if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed to
this position.
Senator Kennedy. Yes, ma'am, but, again, not to put too
fine a point on this, but I need a little more precise answer,
so let me ask it a little more directly. Do you think
Republicans care about people of color?
Ms. Fudge. I do, some, yes.
Senator Kennedy. Do you think most Republicans care about
people of color?
Ms. Fudge. Yes, I do.
Senator Kennedy. OK. Thank you for that.
Dean, can you hear me?
Ms. Rouse. Yes, I can hear you. Thank you.
Senator Kennedy. OK. It is an honor to meet you, too. I
want to take you back to the month before the pandemic started,
before we even knew about the coronavirus. What tax changes, if
any, would you have made at that point in time given the fact
that we know taxes impact the economy? Generally speaking, if
you tax something, you get less of it.
Ms. Rouse. Senator, I believe what you are referring to is
the fact that before the pandemic struck or we identified the
virus, the economy overall was doing relatively well. We were
in an expansion. Unemployment rates were----
Senator Kennedy. I am running out of time. What tax changes
at that point would you have made to the economy?
Ms. Rouse. So, Senator, well, one of the problems, though,
with our economy at that time is we still had inequality that
was--I would say ``record levels'' except for the fact that it
has been exacerbated now. So I----
Senator Kennedy. What tax changes would you--I am sorry I
have to do this, because I have only got a minute and 30
seconds. What tax changes at that time would you have made to
the economy?
Ms. Rouse. So, Senator, I would have been looking for ways
and strategies for us to be addressing income inequality and
wealth inequality which existed at that time.
Senator Kennedy. How would you have done that?
Ms. Rouse. Well, so I am an economist, and I study things.
You know, I would want to look at a broad array of potential
options, and if President Biden, when President Biden is ready
to consider the options for paying for his investments, which
we know will help improve and grow the economy, we will study
and try to impose taxes in the most efficient way. But where
individuals and corporations are paying their fair----
Senator Kennedy. But what would be your--sorry for
interrupting. I hate doing that. But we are limited by time.
What are the options that you are talking about?
Ms. Rouse. So we can look at our income tax rates. We can
look at our corporate tax rate. We can look at ways to deal
with wealth income tax----
Senator Kennedy. Capital gains? Is capital gains on your
list?
Ms. Rouse. So capital gains are tricky because we know that
the way that we currently treat capital gains also generates
some inefficiencies. And so, you know, there are tricky ways
that we can deal with capital gains. But I think that we should
look at all of the options, absolutely, because we have wealth
inequality in this country----
Senator Kennedy. How about the death tax?
Ms. Rouse. ----which is wide and getting wider.
Senator Kennedy. In my last 9 seconds, how about the death
tax?
Ms. Rouse. So, Senator, I believe that we should be
studying and considering all of these different options and to
put together a portfolio which is most effective for addressing
wealth and income inequality in this country.
Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Kennedy.
Senator Warren.
Senator Warren. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And
congratulations to both of you on your nominations. Thank you
for being here with us.
We live in an America today where a typical White family
has eight times the wealth of a typical Black family and five
times the wealth of a typical Latinx family gaps that have not
budged in decades.
Now, Dr. Rouse, you have done important research on racial
and economic equity throughout your career. Could you tell us
what it would mean for American families and for our economy if
we pursued policies that closed the racial wealth gap
substantially?
Ms. Rouse. Senator Warren, I think we share a concern about
the increasing wealth gap, and I think if we step back and
first consider why wealth is important and why the racial
wealth gap or any wealth gap is important, first wealth
represents a cumulative impact of inherited resources, right?
It is income over one's lifetime and expenses incurred. It is a
reflection of family circumstances. It can be luck. But it also
reflects obstacles in labor and financial markets.
And so the Black-White wealth gap in particular can be
attributed to a history of discriminatory policies such as
redlining. And, importantly, this legacy continues to replicate
itself generation to generation as those without accumulated
wealth cannot pass it on to their children.
The second part of why I believe it is important is that
these differences are consequential, so wealth is protective
and is important for well-being. So increased wealth has been
associated with better health outcomes and better financial
resilience. And during this pandemic, what we have seen is that
those with greater wealth have more resources to fall upon when
the economy slowed. So it provides a kind of self-insurance
against economic adversity. It also provides access to housing
in safe neighborhoods with good schools, which confers
additional advantages on those who can afford such
opportunities.
And so closing the wealth gap is not about trying to
literally take away, but it is try to ensure that everybody can
participate in this economy.
Senator Warren. Well, that is powerfully important. Thank
you. And, you know, one big contributor to the wealth gap is
student loan debt. Black and Latinx students borrow more money
to go to college, and they have a harder time paying it off. If
the President canceled up to $50,000 in student loan debt, as
Leader Schumer and I have called for, it would close the racial
wealth gap among people with student loan debt by about 25
points. Canceling $50,000 in Federal student loan debt is the
single biggest thing the Administration could do on its own to
narrow the racial wealth gap. So I hope we will get a chance to
work together to make this happen.
I want to turn to another piece of the racial wealth gap,
and that is home ownership. Owning a home is the number one way
that middle-class families build wealth. But here is the ugly
truth: The racial home ownership gap is now wider than it was
when Congress outlawed housing discrimination back in the mid-
1960s, and this difference can be traced directly to decades of
racist Federal policies, including redlining that denied Black
families the same path to home ownership that was available to
White families. Since the Government created this problem, it
seems only right that the Government should help fix it.
So, Congresswoman Fudge, you have spent your career working
to improve the lives of people in communities of color. If the
Federal Government provided help with downpayment for families
living in formerly redlined neighborhoods, would that make a
difference in narrowing the racial home ownership gap and the
racial wealth gap?
Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much, Senator. It would make a
huge difference because that is the biggest impediment to home
ownership for communities of color, is the downpayment. We meet
all of the other qualifications, and so it is like us being in
a race with people who have already had a head start, because
we do not have a mother or father to give us a downpayment. We
do not have the wherewithal, the same kind of income, the same
kind of access. And so it is like we are starting out of the
box with somebody who was out ahead of us by 100 yards.
Downpayment assistance is a major, major impediment, and if
we can fix that, you would see a tremendous growth, because no
matter what they say, home ownership amongst Blacks right now
is the same as it was in 1968.
Senator Warren. Thank you, Congresswoman. Very powerful on
this. We need to take action before the pandemic widens the
home ownership gap even more.
It is time for an all-hands-on-deck approach to tackling
the shameful racial disparities in our economy. Providing
downpayment assistance is one powerful way to do that.
Administratively canceling billions of dollars of student loan
debt is another. I know you both care deeply about these
issues, and I am looking forward to working with you in your
new roles.
Ms. Fudge. Thank you.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Warren.
Senator Schatz.
Senator Schatz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ranking
Member. Thank you to our nominees.
I want to start with Congresswoman Fudge. We had a great
conversation the other day, and I wanted to follow up on
something I feel very passionately about. A straight line can
be drawn from the racist local, State, and Federal segregation
policies of the past to our zoning codes today. And so in
addition to recommitting to fair housing enforcement, what
should HUD do to encourage communities to abandon exclusionary
zoning and implement policies that build accessible, equitable,
and affordable housing?
Ms. Fudge. Thank you, Senator, and I did very much enjoy
our conversation. We have to get rid of this notion of ``not in
my back yard.'' We are going to have to find ways for two
reasons. One is housing has increased by 10 percent or more a
year, and the average person that we are talking about that HUD
serves are people who are not--their incomes are not rising at
that level. So we are going to have to find some incentives for
home builders, especially those that build multifamily housing,
to assist us in these communities to change the zoning laws. I
mean, some of these are very, very discriminatory, and I think
that there are some legal options. But I also think we need to
convince them that it is to their advantage economically, it is
to their advantage to make sure that their communities know
that it is important to them to get people off the street and
to house people properly in safe, affordable neighborhoods.
So I think it is a tough issue. Being a mayor, I understand
it. But it is an educational issue, and we need to make sure
that we educate them on what they are doing to their
communities.
Senator Schatz. Well, thank you for that, and I am looking
forward to working with you on this. I would just add that part
of this is the politics of cities and towns, and people who
otherwise consider themselves rather progressive get rather
regressive and are not reminded by people such as you and many
of the people on the Banking Committee and in the Congress that
exclusionary zoning, restrictive covenants, all of that is the
great-grandson of Jim Crow. And we need to remember that legacy
even as all these progressives were fighting for progressive
causes except for housing next to their block. And that is
something that we have to wrap our minds around not just from a
policy perspective but from a community and communications
perspective. And I am hoping that we can work together on that.
Ms. Fudge. If I am confirmed, I will be talking with you
about it all the time, Senator.
Senator Schatz. Great. Last Congress, I introduced a CDBG-
DR reform bill that would permanently authorize the program and
get funding to communities faster, to help communities develop
housing-focused community resilience plans. Do you support the
permanent authorization of CDBG-DR?
Ms. Fudge. Yes, very, very much, and I will be happy, if
confirmed, to work with you on it. That is the only way we can
get it out without jumping through a million hoops.
Senator Schatz. Thank you very much. Hawaii has one of the
worst housing shortages in the United States. We have San
Francisco-New York prices and Midwestern salaries. And so do I
have your commitment to work generally speaking on the housing
shortage in Hawaii and specifically on the Native Hawaiian
housing challenge and the Native Hawaiian housing block grant?
Ms. Fudge. Very much. I am looking forward to working with
you.
Senator Schatz. OK. Dr. Rouse, there is a real sort of
shift in thinking around the economics of climate action, and I
think that this thinking is happening in academia. It is
certainly happening in markets, as we see, and it is happening
in the Congress. And I am wondering how you see your role in
developing the data sets that sort of flesh out the case that
climate action is not just not in conflict with an economic
strategy but it is, in fact, our economic energy. And I am
wondering how you are going to develop the data sets to clarify
that so we do not have to have this sort of 1970's argument
about whether we are going to protect the environment or
develop the economy?
Ms. Rouse. Senator, I can assure you that addressing our
climate challenge is front and center of the Administration's
agenda and of the CEA. First and foremost, we will have an
economist, one of our members, and we are hiring another
economist, should I be confirmed at least, that will focus on
climate. And understanding the true costs of climate inaction,
understanding the benefits of addressing climate and how we can
do so efficiently are key to what I would like to accomplish at
the CEA, should I be confirmed.
Senator Schatz. Thank you.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Schatz.
Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Congratulations on the
nominations, both to you, Congresswoman Fudge, and Dr. Rouse.
Dr. Rouse, let me start with you, and I appreciate both of
you having conversations with me. But, Dr. Rouse, let me start
with you, and as you can imagine, it is surrounding the
hospitality industry and tourism industry because Nevada has
been so hard hit. Our resort operators support our whole
community. But as you and I discussed, when people are
unwilling to travel during a pandemic, it has a devastating
impact on our economy, both on the businesses and the workers
that directly and indirectly support it.
Let me just throw out some numbers here because I think it
is important for us to understand. Before the pandemic, the
travel and tourism industry was one of the largest sectors of
the economy. In 2019, travel generated $1.1 trillion in
spending and supported 15.8 million American jobs. But we know
because of the COVID pandemic it has devastated this industry,
and according to Oxford Economics, the U.S. lost $510 billion
in travel spending and 4.5 million travel jobs in 2020.
So my question to you is: Do you think that the industry,
the hospitality, the travel/leisure industry is one area where
Congress and the Administration should focus when crafting a
stimulus bill?
Ms. Rouse. Senator, I appreciated our conversation, and I
share your concern about the travel and leisure industries. We
know from the most recent job report that that is an area where
we are seeing our most significant job losses and where we have
been hardest hit by this pandemic. And as I have said before,
getting through this pandemic as safely as possible, where we
are helping individuals, helping the businesses that are viable
get to the other side so that they can participate in the
growth is very important. And I believe we should be targeting
our assistance at those hardest-hit areas. I believe the
President shares that priority.
I would say that in the rescue plan there is additional aid
for businesses, but I would look forward to talking with you
and understanding what from your perspective and your
constituents' perspective would be the most effective ways to
ensure that we get the assistance to those businesses and those
sectors that are the most heavily impacted by the pandemic.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Dr. Rouse, because I do
look forward to working with you. Senator Cramer and I both
introduced this bipartisan bill, the Hospitality and Commerce
Job Recovery Act, and we have ideas after working with our
industry locally and nationally about what can be done. That
includes tax credits to be effective tools to incentivize
spending and help certain sectors recover from an economic
crisis. So I look forward to talking with you on that subject.
Thank you.
Congresswoman Fudge, let me associate myself with some of
the comments that Senator Scott brought forward with respect to
manufactured housing. He and I both cochaired a bill, the
Manufactured Housing Modernization Act. It was passed into law.
It was passed into law a year ago and to my understanding has
still not been implemented by HUD. As a result of that, he and
I sent a letter to then-Secretary Carson February 4th asking
for the quick implementation of the new law, and really what it
does is it issues guidance for the inclusion of manufactured
housing in States and local governments' consolidated plan. So
I would look forward to working with you on the implementation
of that particular law, but I only have so much. Let me talk
about one other area that we all have been addressing, which is
the affordable housing crisis.
In Nevada and across the country, it is so prevalent. One
area, though, is youth homelessness. Nevada is third in the
Nation for the total number of unaccompanied youth experiencing
homelessness, and the highest rate of unsheltered,
unaccompanied homeless youth. And I know this is an area that
is important for you as well. What ideas do you have to work
with other agencies to reduce youth homelessness? And what can
HUD be doing as well?
Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much, Senator, and I did enjoy
our conversation. Thank you.
Certainly if I am confirmed, one of the things that we need
to address right away is youth who are aging out of the foster
care system. As soon as they age out, they have no place to go.
So HUD has to start to put in place programs to allow them to
stay in public housing at least until we can get them on their
feet. But right now it is a very difficult situation with the
numbers of young people who are, as you say, unattended, but
the majority of them are foster children. So we need a program
for foster youth, and that is something that I would be happy
to work with you on, should I be confirmed.
Senator Cortez Masto. I look forward to it. Thank you
again.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. Well, thank you so much, Chair Toomey and
Chair-to-be Brown. And welcome to our nominees. You both bring
such distinguished records and, I know, a true spirit of public
service. So I am really grateful for the conversations that I
was able to have with both of you over the last couple of
weeks, and I very much look forward to supporting you.
We are in the midst of the worst public health crisis and
economic crisis together colliding in our country that we have,
in my knowledge, ever lived through. But I really appreciate
how both of you are talking about how we need to navigate
through this crisis, but also focus on how we can expand on the
ingenuity and the innovation and the amazing work of American
workers to be able to build our economy forward.
Dr. Rouse, I want to start with you. I really appreciated
our conversation and your thoughtfulness and your
reasonableness, and I appreciate especially how you talk about
following the data, not just the averages but the entire scope
of data that will help us understand how people are doing at
the extremes of our economy as well as how people on the
average are doing. And this gets to a question that Senator
Warren was raising that I think is so important. It is the cost
of inequality to our economy. And Elizabeth touched on this
with regard to home ownership, but I want to ask you about the
challenges to our economy because of lack of access to capital
for communities of color, Black, Brown, and indigenous
communities, and especially the role that CDFIs and Native
CDFIs can play in expanding access to capital, the impact that
could have on inequality and getting our economy really moving
again.
Ms. Rouse. Thank you, Senator. You are raising a very
important issue. As we think about having a shared recovery and
ensuring that it is not just the average that does well but
everywhere, and the diversity, it is not--I want to just
emphasize the geographic diversity and what happens in our
rural areas in particular and for our hardest-hit areas is an
important part of that mosaic.
We know that stimulating economic activity is the best way
to generate employment for rural areas and, therefore, economic
security and livelihood, and to ensure that the young people
want to stay in those areas--not that people have to be forced
to stay where they do not want to stay, but that they have an
incentive to stay and not to flee to urban areas in order to
find a job.
So if we want to bring back vibrancy to all of the areas of
the U.S., we have to ensure that the businesses and the smaller
businesses have access to capital so they can get started; and,
importantly, during a downturn such as this, that they have
access to capital so they can thrive during economic activity
and a bridge to make sure that they ensure and they survive to
the other side. So I believe this is an important part of our
strategy.
Senator Smith. I appreciate that. And when you and I met,
we talked about what this could look like in Indian country and
the United States, and I want to reextend my invitation to have
you come to Minnesota, either virtually or in person, so that
we can have some conversations about what that would mean in
terms of access to capital and economic development in tribal
lands.
Let me turn to Representative Fudge just to carry on this
theme. I so appreciate you and your leadership, and I also just
want to note that as a mayor, I think that mayors--I know a
little bit about mayors. No problem is too big or too small for
a mayor to focus on, and, also, most problems, when you are a
mayor, are not Republican or Democratic problems. They are
problems about whether people's lives work or not. I believe
that you will bring that same spirit to housing and urban
development, so I want to thank you.
I want to ask a follow-up specifically on the conversation
that you and I also had about the shortage of housing on tribal
lands. I would ask if you could just comment briefly on
NAHASDA, which is the most important housing program for Indian
country and what role you see that can play in addressing the
housing shortage in tribal communities.
Ms. Fudge. Well, thank you very, very much, and thank you
for taking the time to speak with me. NAHASDA is something that
was brought up to me by most of the Native American
stakeholders that I have already spoken with. It is something
that I have guaranteed them that I am going to look into as
quickly as possible. And if I am confirmed, as soon as I can
get in the office and talk to the staff and figure out what is
going on with it, I promise that I will get back with you as
well as I promised them that I would get back with them, and I
intend to do just that.
Senator Smith. Thank you very much.
And, Mr. Chairman, I have a question for the record which I
will submit for Representative Fudge about the importance of
maintenance and safety needs in public housing. This relates to
the tragic event in Minnesota with a terrible fire and the lack
of sprinkler systems. You can get back to me on that,
Representative Fudge.
Ms. Fudge. Thank you.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Smith.
It is my understanding that Senator Van Hollen may be
attempting to log on, but he has not been able to do so yet.
Senator Brown, if you had a closing comment you wanted to
make, maybe you could make that statement now, and we could
give a little bit more time for Senator Van Hollen to join us
in case he is able to do so.
Senator Brown. I would. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank
you again to my friend Congresswoman Fudge, and, Dr. Rouse,
thank you.
Let me say in response to the questions from a number of my
colleagues that it is pretty tough--to Congresswoman Fudge, it
is pretty tough to take a lecture on political speech from
Members of a party whose leader just 3 weeks ago literally
incited a violent insurrection with his words. The real
rhetoric we should be worried about are the lies and the
conspiracy theories that do more than hurt feelings. They
incite violence, they undermine our democracy.
I know Senator Toomey at least has pushed back against the
former President's dangerous lies about our election. I
appreciate his candor and his courage. I wish others of our
colleagues on this Committee and in the Senate would show the
same kind of courage.
Thanks to Congresswoman Fudge, thanks to Dean Rouse, Dr.
Rouse, for your thoughtful answers. I am excited to work with
you. This hearing today made me even more excited about
assuming the chairmanship of this Committee. I appreciated
Congresswoman Fudge's comments that these are extraordinary
times that require extraordinary action. What you two will do
in the next several years, I would assume, will be the most
important things you have ever done in your lives. I consider
my job to be that in the few years ahead. Your service to our
country is both admirable and absolutely crucial.
So thank you, Chairman Toomey, and thanks to our two
witnesses.
Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Brown. Let me just
briefly observe I appreciate the conversation today. I am
grateful to the two witnesses for their willingness to serve
our country. I will say I think I heard bipartisan discussion
about the fact that we are in a different place in our economy
today than we were back in March, and today we have got people
who are certainly suffering from very terrible circumstances.
But it is a much more targeted group of folks than the sort of
universal catastrophe we faced in March, and so I hope that as
we develop further responses, it will reflect that reality.
So this concludes the question-and-answer portion of
today's hearing. Prior to adjourning, I do have some final
housekeeping announcements. Before I do that, again, let me
thank both of our witnesses, our nominees, for your testimony
and for your willingness to serve.
For Senators, all follow-on questions for the record must
be submitted by 5 p.m. Saturday, January 30th. That is 5 p.m.
Saturday, January 30th. And for our witnesses, I do ask you to
respond to written questions that you receive by noon Monday,
February 1st. I know that is a very tight timeframe, but your
prompt responses will facilitate this Committee quickly
processing your nominations.
With that, this hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:12 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
[Prepared statements, biographical sketches of nominees,
responses to written questions, and additional material
supplied for the record follow:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR SHERROD BROWN
Today we consider the nominations of two distinguished public
servants, my Congresswoman--Marcia Fudge to lead the Department of
Housing and Urban Development--and Dr. Cecilia Rouse to lead the
Council of Economic Advisors.
Most of us have met with them. We are impressed with their
knowledge, their commitment, and their passion to serve, especially
during the current public health and economic crisis. Thank you,
Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse.
Our economy is at a crossroads. COVID-19 infections are up, new
unemployment claims continue to rise, and millions of families are
behind on their bills--on rent, on utilities, on mortgage payments.
We face a choice: Will we finally marshal all of our country's vast
resources and talent to meet this moment? Will we help all the families
that desperately need it, help our struggling small businesses survive,
and get Americans vaccinated and back to school and back to work and
back to seeing their grandparents and grandchildren?
Or, will we sit back and watch as millions of families face the
threat of eviction, as people drain meager savings account or head to
payday lenders, as job losses become permanent, and racial and economic
inequality get worse?
President Biden nominated Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse to
positions that will be essential to determining which path we take,
during this pandemic and in the years ahead.
And I can think of no one better to lead us out of this pandemic
and into the future than the two women before us today.
After a year when Black Americans have endured so many painful
reminders of the yawning gap between the promise of our founding
ideals, and our failure to make that promise real for everyone, two
Black women will take leading roles in our economic recovery.
This matters on so many levels. It's important for our future that
little girls, including Black and brown girls, see themselves in our
leaders, from the Vice President to our economic leaders.
And it matters because of the perspectives and the life experiences
these two women--these two Black women--bring to these jobs.
They both have ties to Ohio--one a daughter of Cleveland, of the
industrial Midwest, and the other with roots deep into the Mahoning
Valley and Youngstown.
And Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse bring a real understanding of
the people who make this country work--all people--to these jobs.
If confirmed, Congresswoman Fudge will lead an agency that supports
families and communities, provides housing and safety to people
experiencing homelessness from this pandemic, and helps communities
rebuild.
Today, HUD is grappling with a housing market where millions of
families find it harder and harder to afford a decent home. The cost of
housing is up, wages are flat, and so many workers have trouble making
rent every month without crippling stress, or turning to predatory
loans. And the dream of home ownership is increasingly out of reach.
None of this started with COVID-19. The affordable housing crisis
is the product of decades of conscious policy decisions--by both
Government and corporations. This pandemic has exposed what millions of
families in this country already knew--that too many people are
struggling to get by.
Before the U.S. had its first case of COVID-19, a quarter of all
renters were already paying more than half their income for housing,
and the Black home ownership rate was nearly as low as it was in 1968,
when housing discrimination was legal.
HUD should play an essential role in fixing that--in expanding
opportunity to every zip code, and allowing more families to have the
peace of mind and the economic security of a safe home they can afford.
Congresswoman Fudge will work to help protect our kids from lead
poisoning, to restore the promise of fair housing, and to give
communities the help and resources they need to thrive.
All of this is a tall order, but it is one I know she is poised to
meet. And she brings to the job the unique and critical experience of
serving as mayor for the kind of community that is either overlooked,
or outright preyed upon, by Wall Street and big investors.
We cannot write off entire swaths of the country--whether it's a
coal town or an historic industrial city, whether it's farm country or
an urban neighborhood. This champion of Cleveland understands that.
The Council of Economic Advisors will also play an integral role
both in helping our economy recover and in building a better system out
of this pandemic. And Dr. Rouse is exactly who we need at the helm. If
confirmed, she will help direct our Nation's economic policy to put
Americans back to work, at better jobs with higher wages.
Millions of people are still out of work, and those job losses have
disproportionately fallen on low-wage workers, Black and brown workers,
and women. At the same time, essential workers are risking their health
to go to work, while corporations still refuse to pay them a living
wage.
It's all part of the corporate business model that treats American
workers as expendable, instead of as essential to our country's
success. For decades, workers' wages have remained stagnant while CEO
pay has skyrocketed. ``Building Back Better'' means taking on that
system, and creating an economy with a growing, thriving middle class.
This won't be the first time Dr. Rouse has helped us weather a
crisis--she served on the Council of Economic Advisors in 2009, during
the Great Recession.
Dr. Rouse, has spent her career focusing on workers and ensuring
that this economy works for everyone. Her expertise and leadership will
guide this Administration and Congress in formulating the policies that
can help revive our economy so that it works for all Americans.
And both she and Congresswoman Fudge will look at how we can
protect families from climate change, while seizing opportunities to
create new jobs, advance environmental justice, and grow new
industries. Making our homes and communities more energy efficient
isn't just necessary for our future--it's the kind of investment that
will put people to work at jobs that can't be outsourced, and will spur
new economic growth.
We know we face great challenges. These are extraordinary times
that call for us to aim higher and think bigger, to deliver real
results that make a difference in people's lives.
I look forward to hearing how each of you will help chart the
course out of this pandemic and build a brighter future in the years
ahead.
I have a number of letters of support that I would ask unanimous
support to submit for the record.
______
PREPARED STATEMENT OF MARCIA L. FUDGE
To Be Secretary, Department of Housing and Urban Development
January 28, 2021
I thank President Biden for nominating me to serve as the 18th
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development and will do everything
possible to ensure that every American has a roof over their head.
The housing issues our Nation faces are real, varied, and touch all
of us. I am a strong believer in the Department's programs and its
mission--especially with regard to serving those who face the greatest
need.
Senators, I have dedicated my entire life to public service and to
working to help low-income families, seniors, and communities. I
believe I am up to the challenge that is before me.
As mayor of Warrensville Heights, Ohio I saw firsthand the need for
economic development and affordable housing. We improved the city's tax
base and expanded affordable housing opportunities. As a Member of
Congress, I tackled the unique challenges of my district, working with
my delegation and across the aisle.
Our housing issues do not fit into a cookie-cutter mold--and I know
that the same is true in each of your States. We need policies and
programs that can adapt to meet your unique housing challenges, and I
would very much like to work with each of you to find the right answers
for your States.
It bears mentioning, particularly in this moment of crisis, that
HUD--perhaps more than any other department--exists to serve the most
vulnerable people in America. That mandate matters a great deal to me.
It is consistent with my own values, and it is precisely what has
always motivated me to service.
It's estimated that, on any given night in 2019, more than half a
million people experienced homelessness in America. That's a
devastating statistic--even before you consider the reality of what
COVID-19 has done to exacerbate the crisis.
According to one study, 21 million Americans currently pay more
than 30 percent of their income on housing. Because of lost income and
unemployment due to COVID, 1 in 5 renters and 1 in 10 homeowners with a
mortgage are behind on their housing payments.
Native housing is also in a crisis, with far too many families
living in substandard and crowded housing conditions on reservations.
Although Congress provided $25 billion in rental assistance and the
CDC extended the eviction moratorium, this is not enough at a time when
tens of millions of Americans are behind on rent; almost 3 million
homeowners are currently in forbearance; and another 800,000 borrowers
are delinquent.
Much like COVID-19, the housing crisis isn't isolated by geography.
It is the daily reality for tens of millions of our fellow Americans--
people in blue States and red States, in cities and small towns.
My first priority as Secretary would be to alleviate that crisis
and get people the support they need to come back from the edge.
We need to expand resources for HUD's programs to people who are
eligible. Today, according to a 2017 study, only 1 out of 5 eligible
households receive housing assistance.
We need to deliver on the Administration's commitments on improving
the quality, safety, and accessibility of affordable housing and
building 1.5 million new affordable homes.
We need to make the dream of home ownership--and the security and
wealth creation that comes with it--a reality for more Americans. That
will require us to end discriminatory practices in the housing market,
and ensure that our fair housing rules are doing what they are supposed
to do: opening the door for families, especially families of color who
have been systematically kept out in the cold across generations, to
buy homes and punch their ticket to the middle class.
There are so many issues we need to come together to address--
everything from bringing capital back to disinvested communities, to
increasing energy efficiency in housing, to dealing with the dangers of
lead-based paint, to taking on our crisis of homelessness with
compassion and resolve.
These are only some of the challenges--and I know that many of you
have additional priorities as well. These problems are urgent, but they
are not beyond our capacity to solve.
The only way we will meet them is by working together. And to that
end, I pledge this: if I have the honor of being confirmed, I will be
accessible to you, I will listen to you, and I will be a partner to you
to solve the housing challenges your constituents are facing back home.
I expect you to hold me accountable along the way--I welcome that
accountability.
And I will always strive to be a transparent and good-faith partner
as we work together to do the vitally important work we're all here to
do: helping families in need.
Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
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PREPARED STATEMENT OF CECILIA E. ROUSE
To Be Chair, Council of Economic Advisers
January 28, 2021
Chairman Crapo, incoming Chairman Brown, incoming Ranking Member
Toomey, and Members of the Committee, it is an honor to appear before
you.
My path here today began in the early 1980s, during what was--at
the time--one of the worst spikes in unemployment our country had
experienced since the 1930s.
I was a freshman in college, taking my first economics class. I was
there because my wise mother had told me to take an econ class. But it
was really unemployment that piqued my interest, when I could see how
classroom material could be applied to the world outside and the
millions who were experiencing in real time the effects of a struggling
economy.
I was drawn to the discipline because I wanted to know why this was
happening. Why had jobs disappeared--and what could be done to bring
them back? I focused my work on the labor market, and in particular on
the impact of education on people's job prospects, ways to tear down
barriers to job growth, and policies to make it possible for more
people to achieve long-lasting economic security. Since then, I have
had the honor of working on these important issues in academia and the
public sector.
Today our country is living through the worst economic crisis since
the Great Depression. Millions of families have had their lives turned
upside down, the economic security they've worked so hard to build
eroded almost overnight by the economic impact of the pandemic. Far too
many have slipped through our frayed safety net into hardship and
hopelessness. And structural inequities that have always existed within
our economy have not just been exposed, but exacerbated, their impact
more devastating than ever before.
We must take action to shepherd our Nation's economy back onto
solid footing. But as deeply distressing as this pandemic and economic
fallout have been, it is also an opportunity to rebuild the economy
better than it was before--making it work for everyone by increasing
the availability of fulfilling jobs and leaving no one vulnerable to
falling through the cracks.
President Biden and Vice President Harris have made these the core
values of their Build Back Better agenda. If confirmed, my job will be
to provide them with objective economic guidance--recommendations
rooted in fact and evidence--to help them achieve those important
goals.
As important as it is for the CEA to interpret and translate data
and academic research, it is also vital that we utilize the right data.
Too often economists focus on average outcomes, instead of examining a
range of outcomes. As a result, our analyses tell us about average
economic growth and the middle of the distribution--but as our economy
grows more and more unequal, that analysis fails to capture the
experience of the many people who are left behind, particularly people
of color. Therefore, one of my priorities as Chair will be to try to
understand how policies will impact all those in our country as we
strive to ensure the economy works for everyone.
Equally important is having analysis conducted by economists who
specialize in a variety of fields. If confirmed, I will staff the CEA
with a well-rounded team ready to address the incredible breadth of
challenges we face.
To close, I am honored to be nominated for this position. It would
allow me to work on issues close to my heart and so critical in this
current crisis. A good-paying, fulfilling job has always been the key
to building economic security. Today, we are seeing the immense pain
caused when our economy fails to fulfill that promise. But I believe
there is much we can do to strengthen the position of everyone across
this incredible country of ours.
If confirmed I will work closely with you on these important
priorities. And I will do so regardless of your party affiliation, your
approach to various policies, or your opinion of the Administration's
efforts. Economists are trained to gather and analyze information and
consider innovative perspectives. That is how I will approach this job.
And my door will always be open.
With that, I am happy to take your questions.
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF CHAIRMAN CRAPO
FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE
Q.1. The Trump administration recognized that land-use
restrictions and other regulatory barriers reduce and delay
development, increase construction costs, and limit the supply
of affordable homes. They launched an interagency council to
assess and eliminate such barriers--the most recent in many
efforts over the years, by both Democratic and Republican
administrations, to identify and reduce restrictive zoning and
unnecessary housing regulations. More recently, HUD published a
final report laying out ways in which the Federal Government
can encourage and support jurisdictions to increase housing
supply across income levels.
To break down barriers to affordable housing development,
will you continue this work to address land-use restrictions
and other regulatory barriers?
A.1. As a former Mayor, I know that land-use regulations and
most regulatory barriers are a matter of State and local
policy. HUD and other Federal agencies can play a role in
providing research and best practices for State and local
governments to consider when they are exploring ways to reduce
the costs and barriers that prevent the development of
affordable housing. We can also look at how Federal programs
and requirements contribute to increasing the costs or
preventing the development of affordable housing and see if
there are better ways to balance the goals of those other
programs and rules against the need for affordable housing. If
confirmed, I look forward to learning more about the work HUD
has supported in the past and building off that work.
Q.2. The HUD-Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing (HUD-VASH)
program combines HUD Housing Choice Voucher (HCV) rental
assistance with clinical services and case management provided
by the Veterans Affairs Department. The HUD-VASH program plays
a significant role in our Nation's efforts to end veterans'
homelessness.
If confirmed, will you continue to support this program and
work with members to assist the unique needs of our veterans?
A.2. Yes. The HUD-VASH program's success is rooted in a strong
HUD and VA partnership both in Washington, DC, and through
local collaborative efforts throughout the Nation. If
confirmed, I will work with the VA to continue to support this
program and work with members to ensure that the program
continues to meet the needs of our homeless veterans.
------
RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR BROWN
FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE
Q.1. Between 2009 and 2018, HUD staffing fell by 19 percent.
For the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity--the
office charged with overseeing Fair Housing Act compliance--
staff has declined more than 30 percent. How will you work to
rebuild HUD's workforce so that it can fulfill its mission?
A.1. Recruiting and retaining the best talent is imperative to
rebuilding HUD's workforce and fulfilling its mission. The
Office of Administration has taken immediate steps to increase
HUD's hiring capacity, almost doubling hiring from 2019 to
2020.
Simultaneously, the Office of Administration has also begun
to redesign the hiring process, developing a new hiring
blueprint that reduced the number of steps to hire a new
employee by up to 75 percent. This blueprint provides the
roadmap for HUD to create the best-in-class hiring process and
outcomes in the Federal Government. The Office of
Administration is focused on continuing these efforts to
improve not only the Department's hiring capability, but the
capability to recruit, train, and retain a strong, stable
workforce. The Office of Administration will also closely
assess, and support staffing needs in important HUD offices
like the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, where
the historical data shows above average staffing attrition.
Q.2. Where have you excelled in hiring and promoting people of
color in your Congressional office and in previous jobs?
A.2. Something I pride myself on is not just hiring a diverse
staff but elevating and promoting them accordingly.
Understanding that I represent a diverse community, it has
always been important to me that my staff reflects the
demographic of my constituents. In addition to diverse hiring
practices, I have been able to cultivate teams where diversity
is reflected amongst leadership positions in my offices. Each
of my Chiefs of Staff over the last 12 years have been Black
women. Three of my six Legislative Directors have been people
of color, and four of my Legislative Assistants were people of
color that began their service as interns in my office and were
promoted over time. I not only look forward to promoting staff
internally, but, when the time comes, assisting them to the
best of my ability in their next venture.
Q.3. In August 2011, President Obama issued an Executive order
establishing a coordinated, governmentwide initiative to
promote diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in the Federal
workforce. The Executive order reads, in part, that ``Attaining
a diverse, qualified workforce is one of the cornerstones of
the merit-based civil service . . . To realize more fully the
goal of using the talents of all segments of society, the
Federal Government must continue to challenge itself to enhance
its ability to recruit, hire, promote, and retain a more
diverse workforce. Further, the Federal Government must create
a culture that encourages collaboration, flexibility, and
fairness to enable individuals to participate to their full
potential.'' The order required each agency to establish an
agency-specific diversity, equity, and inclusion strategic plan
with specific objectives.
Please describe your commitment to diverse hiring at HUD.
Will you establish a HUD-specific diversity, equity, and
inclusion strategic plan with specific objectives?
A.3. I am fully committed to establishing a diverse workforce
at HUD. I will work with HUD's Office of Departmental Equal
Employment Opportunity and the Office of Administration to
promote equal opportunity and identify and eliminate any
discriminatory practices and policies. I will ensure that we
have a diversified workforce through systematic training of HUD
employees, monitoring our employment policies for any
discriminatory impact, and ensuring that our senior leadership
are evaluated in terms of their commitments to diversity,
equity, and inclusion. I will also work diligently in
furtherance of President Biden's instructions to the head of
each agency, including Executive Order 13985 on ``Advancing
Racial Equity and Support for Underserved Communities Through
the Federal Government'' and Executive Order 13988 on
``Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of
Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation''.
Q.4. Will you commit to establishing a system for reporting
regularly on HUD's progress in implementing an agency-specific
diversity, equity, and inclusion strategic plan and in meeting
the objectives under the plan?
A.4. I will ensure HUD employment practices are monitored and
evaluated on the basis of diversity, equity, and inclusion, and
I will direct HUD's Director of the Office of Departmental
Equal Employment Opportunity and HUD's head of Administration
to meet regularly with my office to report on our diversity,
equity, and inclusion strategic plan. I will review HUD's
current Inclusive Diversity Strategic plan and ask HUD's Office
of Diversity and Inclusion to revise it to align with the
vision laid out by President Biden and my track record.
Q.5. Will you commit to implementing and requiring diversity,
equity, and inclusion training for all employees within your
purview? What is your plan for implementing these trainings?
A.5. I will direct leadership of the Office of Departmental
Equal Employment Opportunity, the Office of Administration, and
the Office of General Counsel to work with HUD's Office of
Diversity & Inclusion to deliver diversity-oriented events and
activities, specifically, DEI trainings and cross-cultural
workshops for the entire workforce.
Q.6. Will you commit to implementing and requiring implicit
bias training for managers within your purview? What is your
plan for implementing these trainings?
A.6. Yes, I will. And it is my understanding that HUD has begun
these trainings and plans to virtually host implicit bias
training to staff throughout headquarters and field offices. I
will direct leadership of the Office of Departmental Equal
Employment Opportunity, the Office of Administration, and the
Office of General Counsel to analyze the content of these
trainings and continue to strengthen them during my tenure at
HUD.
Q.7. Please list at least 3 specific priorities for advancing
racial equity, diversity, and inclusion at HUD. What specific
measures will you use to evaluate success in these areas, and
over what period of time?
A.7. As I stated in my testimony, advancing racial equity,
diversity, and inclusion is a top priority for me in all things
including as, if confirmed, HUD secretary.
First, I will help reenergize staff morale and internal
dedication to DEI efforts. This will begin immediately through
my senior leadership team and will continue throughout my
tenure as I evaluate what is currently in place and work with
HUD staff to strengthen these efforts.
Second, I will reinvigorate HUD's enforcement of the Fair
Housing Act to combat discriminatory practices that prevent too
many people from having equal access to housing. This will
include addressing the previous Administration's rules
regarding Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing and disparate
impact. President Biden's Executive orders direct HUD to
evaluate the impact of both rules and the appropriate measures
to take in response as swiftly as is practicable, and I would
take immediate steps to do so. I will also direct HUD's Office
of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity to enforce the Fair
Housing Act in a manner consistent with the President's
directive to eliminate bias in the housing market and ensure
equal housing opportunities for all.
Finally, we know that there are a disproportionate number
of people of color, people with disabilities, and LGBTQ people
among those experiencing homelessness. I am committed to
advancing policies and practices that reduce homelessness among
this population in all aspects of our work over the course of
my tenure at HUD.
It will take both an internal and external approach to
advancing DEI related to HUD's mission and I am committed to
both.
Q.8. Please describe how you plan to work with and engage the
housing and financial services industries to serve Black,
Indigenous, and People of Color (BIPOC) and dismantle systemic
racism's impact in those sectors. How, specifically, will you
hold the industry accountable on these issues? How will you
accelerate private sector efforts to achieve more inclusive
leadership?
A.8. The dismantling of decades of racist housing policy and
business practices will require intention, coordination, and
serious commitment from inside the Federal Government and from
the financial services and real estate industries. During my
hearing I said that this Nation has ``failed to have a holistic
approach to housing.'' I recognize that housing is a necessity
for every single American and a critical part of our Nation's
infrastructure, and HUD is central to that. We have seen
decades of disinvestment in our housing stock, including in our
State of Ohio and the 44105 Zip code, and a direct connection
of that disinvestment to formerly redlined and highly
segregated areas where Black people live and where poverty is
concentrated. I plan to work with key housing agencies inside
the Government on a unified strategy to ensure lenders and
financial institutions are not leaving BIPOC communities behind
because of the legacy of racist business practices that have
excluded these groups for generations. HUD should be included
in the housing finance reform debate, because we have one
housing finance system that should be serving all the people
and the FHA insurance program is the largest provider of
mortgage credit for BIPOC communities, first time homebuyers,
and LMI households. I will also work with State and local
housing agencies who play a critical role in delivering housing
programs and services, as well as with mayors and governors
with focus on those communities we know have been inadequately
invested in. Private industry must be a part of the solution
because they have been deeply involved in creating the problem.
After George Floyd was killed this past summer many industry
leaders, including the Business Roundtable, made strong
statements and commitments about dismantling racism, changing
business practices and valuing diversity, equity, and
inclusion. I intend to hold them accountable to their words
through their actions.
Q.9. How do you plan on incorporating the views and work of the
Office of Diversity and Inclusion across the Department?
A.9. I will work with my senior leadership team to explore ways
to reenergize the Office of Diversity and Inclusion and ensure
that its mission is embedded in all offices and at all levels
of the agency. It is important that all staff understand that
HUD leadership is committed to a healthy work environment that
values diverse life experiences and viewpoints. My team and I
will work with ODI to deliver innovative trainings, strengthen
recruitment practices, and implement best practices for overall
staff management, which includes creating an open work
environment where people at every level have a voice in the
development of HUD programs and policies. My approach is to
hear from everyone--that's what makes us all grow stronger,
together, and I intend to bring that approach to HUD.
Q.10. HUD has advisory councils and committees comprised of
industry leaders, academics, nonprofits, and other
stakeholders. They serve as volunteers but have significant
influence being appointed by and working closely with you. How
will HUD include more diverse advisors on these councils and
committees, and over what period of time?
A.10. If confirmed, I will work diligently to seek out diverse
participants in HUD's councils and committees, and will do so
in light of President Biden's instructions to the head of each
agency, including Executive Order 13985 on ``Advancing Racial
Equity and Support for Underserved Communities Through the
Federal Government'' and Executive Order 13988 on ``Preventing
and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or
Sexual Orientation''.
Q.11. A department's budget reflects its values and goals. How
do you plan to allocate and sufficiently resource internal and
external efforts to advance DEI as part of the agency's annual
budget process? How will you ensure sufficient financial
support for the agency-specific diversity, equity, and
inclusion strategic plan to ensure you are able to meet the
objectives established under that plan in a reasonable time
period?
A.11. Diversity, equity, and inclusion are at the core of HUD's
mission--to create strong, sustainable, inclusive communities
and quality affordable homes for all. If confirmed, I will
request sufficient staff resources so that the Department can
fully execute its mission and partner with our grantees to
enhance their capacity. I will have a DEI plan for the
Department and hold leaders across the agency accountable for
meeting it. Without adequate resources, for example, the
Department cannot effectively enforce fair housing law and
ensure that tenants are in safe, sanitary, and decent housing.
As I said in my testimony, we need to expand resources for
HUD's rental assistance and home ownership programs to all
people who are eligible. Too often those who experience the
worst outcomes from housing instability are people of color.
Black, Latino, Native American, and Asian people are all over-
represented among people experiencing homelessness. For
example, HUD data indicates that 40 percent of people
experiencing homelessness are Black, when Black people only
make up 13 percent of the general population. Deepening the
resources available to serve more eligible people is an
investment in diverse, equitable, and inclusive communities.
And within the resources that Congress provides, I look forward
to working with you and other partners to find ways that we can
prioritize and expand diversity, equity, and inclusion. And
finally, if confirmed, if there are statutory improvements
required to advance these aims, I will rely on your partnership
to change the laws where appropriate.
Q.12. Please describe how you view the role of the Secretary of
the Department of Housing and Urban Development in
appropriately serving BIPOC. How do you view HUD's role in
furthering racial equity?
A.12. As I stated in my testimony, HUD and its programs are
central to furthering racial equity, particularly for people
with low- and moderate-incomes. Home ownership is a key ticket
to the middle class but has historically been denied to BIPOC
because of racism and discrimination. I plan to evaluate new
ways HUD can help BIPOC and other marginalized populations
afford to purchase a home and build family wealth, including
through encouraging lenders to expand their reach into BIPOC
communities.
Renters should also have the opportunity to grow their
incomes and build savings. I, like the President, am committed
to expanding access to Federal rental assistance and improving
program implementation so that people have true choice in where
they live. Too often BIPOC who receive assistance are
segregated into communities that have experienced under or
disinvestment by local leaders. I am committed to investing in
local communities so that all people have access to strong
schools, healthy housing, and strong community support
services.
Q.13. What are some short- and long-term strategies for
addressing housing inequality and the racial and ethnic home
ownership gap that you will pursue at HUD?
A.13. Reducing the racial home ownership and wealth gaps that
have persisted for decades will be a priority if I am
confirmed. Facts will be our guide, and I will collect and
review the evidence and work to remove harmful legacy policies
that have contributed to the gaps. Short term, I will ensure
that the FHA continues to be a consistent source of credit
supporting home ownership for BIPOC households, and work across
the housing system to promote and advocate for policy changes
that help break down barriers to help more families purchase
their first home. I also want to see a healthier flow of
financing to low-cost housing markets, like those in and around
Cleveland, where smaller mortgage loans could help families get
started on the path to home ownership. One way to do that will
be to expand the footprint of lending institutions that do FHA
lending, especially large national and regional banks that have
pulled back in recent years. Strengthening HUD's housing
counseling network and programs to help renters who are ready
to become homeowners prepare will be a key focus, as will
making sure our counseling services are reaching the
communities that need it most. We will take a comprehensive
approach to creating and improving downpayment assistance
programs to help those families who need Federal support in
order to buy their first home because they do not have access
to savings or parents whose wealth can transfer to help. I will
also work to broaden and improve our Nation's affordable
housing stock, including finding ways to expand factory built
and manufactured housing as an affordable housing solution for
suburban and rural areas.
Q.14. What specific measures will you use to evaluate HUD's
success in understanding and addressing the needs of BIPOC?
Will you regularly report to Congress on the progress being
made on these measures?
A.14. Yes, I look forward to working with Congress on this
particular issue and welcome an ongoing conversation on HUD's
progress. As stated in my testimony, first and foremost we must
prevent evictions, foreclosures, and homelessness due to the
pandemic and economic crisis which has disproportionately
impacted BIPOC. We also need to improve home ownership for
BIPOC. I plan to look for ways to implement downpayment
assistance for families and apply an equity lens to loan
qualification criteria and appraisals, among other strategies.
I also believe expanding access to rental assistance given the
role it can play in reducing poverty among BIPOC should be a
high priority and will be a measure of HUD's success. There are
a myriad of additional ways HUD's policies and programs can
address the needs of BIPOC, such as redoubling efforts to
advance fair housing policy. I plan to work with HUD staff and
my leadership team to lift up these opportunities and work with
HUD's Office of Policy Development and Research to measure our
success.
------
RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR TOOMEY
FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE
Q.1. Disparate Impact--I appreciate hearing you commit during
your hearing to following the law in any potential revisions to
HUD's disparate impact regulations, including the Supreme
Court's 2015 decision Texas Department of Housing and Community
Affairs v. Inclusive Communities. Will you commit that any
revisions to HUD's disparate impact rule will follow the
Supreme Court's dictate in Inclusive Communities that
``disparate-impact liability [should not] be so expansive as to
inject racial considerations into every housing decision'' or
cause courts ``to second-guess'' between ``two reasonable
approaches?''
A.1. As I testified during my hearing, I am fully committed to
ensuring that any actions HUD takes related to disparate impact
are consistent with the Supreme Court's ruling in Texas
Department of Housing and Community Affairs v. Inclusive
Communities. I understand that businesses subject to Fair
Housing Act requirements are concerned about potential
liability and potentially meritless litigation, just as
individuals protected by the Fair Housing Act need meaningful
access to the courts to ensure they are protected from
intentional and unintentional discrimination.
Q.2. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in
Inclusive Communities that ``disparate impact liability must be
limited so employers [can] make . . . practical business
choices and profit-related decisions [to] sustain a vibrant and
dynamic free-enterprise system?''
A.2. As noted in my answer to Question 1 above, I am committed
to ensuring that any revisions to HUD's disparate impact rule
will be consistent with the Supreme Court's ruling in Texas
Department of Housing and Community Affairs v. Inclusive
Communities. I will commit to considering all aspects of the
Supreme Court's opinion during any rulemaking process.
Q.3. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in
Inclusive Communities to have ``adequate safeguards'' for
defendants at the prima facie (pleading) stage so ``race [is
not] used and considered in a pervasive way [that] would almost
inexorably lead governmental or private entities to use
numerical quotas . . . ?''
A.3. As noted in my answers to Questions 1 and 2 above, I am
committed to ensuring that any revisions to HUD's disparate
impact rule will be consistent with the Supreme Court's ruling
in Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs v.
Inclusive Communities. I will commit to considering all aspects
of the Supreme Court's opinion during any rulemaking process.
Q.4. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in
Inclusive Communities to have ``robust causality'' between the
defendant's actions and the harm to a protected class so that
defendants will not be held liable for racial disparities they
did not create?
A.4. As noted in my answer to Questions 1, 2, and 3 above, I am
committed to ensuring that any revisions to HUD's disparate
impact rule will be consistent with the Supreme Court's ruling
in Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs v.
Inclusive Communities. I will commit to considering all aspects
of Supreme Court's opinion during any rulemaking process.
Q.5. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate
impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in
Inclusive Communities to focus on removing ``artificial,
arbitrary, and unnecessary barrier[s]'' to housing?
A.5. As noted in my answer to Questions 1 through 4 above, I am
committed to ensuring that any revisions to HUD's disparate
impact rule will be consistent with the Supreme Court's ruling
in Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs v.
Inclusive Communities. I will commit to considering all aspects
of the Supreme Court's opinion during any rulemaking process.
Q.6. AFFH--Is ever it appropriate for HUD to tell localities
how to conduct their education, transportation, or
environmental policy? If so, under what circumstances?
A.6. HUD-administered funds, particularly Community Development
Block Grant Funds, are often used by localities to fund many
activities in a community. Those activities may relate in some
respect to education, transportation, or environmental justice.
If a locality is covered by any of the laws that HUD
administers, I understand that it is HUD's duty to work with
the locality to achieve compliance with any applicable
statutes. Given my experience working in local government, I
understand and respect localities' legitimate desire for
flexibility in how they comply with Federal law.
Q.7. Is it ever appropriate for HUD to tell localities
precisely where to place new housing? If so, under what
circumstances?
A.7. Based on my understanding of the Fair Housing Act, a
locality may not refuse to permit housing to be built in a
particular location for a discriminatory reason. If the
evidence showed that such discrimination had occurred, it would
be appropriate for HUD or the Department of Justice to seek a
remedy for the discrimination, either through voluntary means
or through a lawsuit.
Q.8. We may disagree about what the content of a final AFFH
rulemaking should look like, but I hope we agree that the
outcome should come from a process that maximized stakeholder
input. Will you commit that before making any revisions to
HUD's AFFH regulations, you will receive extensive community
and stakeholder input on any potential revisions, including how
HUD's AFFH rule can respect local autonomy and avoid overly
burdening localities?
A.8. HUD will seek community and stakeholder input in the
development of any revision to the AFFH rule.
Q.9. Will you consider the possibility of tailoring the AFFH
process to meet the unique nature of public housing agencies
(PHAs), including by exempting PHAs altogether from having to
undergo a separate AFFH process?
A.9. I will commit to giving very careful consideration to all
options relating to the AFFH process and will carefully
consider the burdens that an AFFH process may place on public
housing agencies.
Q.10. Barriers to Affordable Housing--HUD just released a
report ``Eliminating Regulatory Barriers to Affordable Housing:
Federal, State, Local, and Tribal Opportunities'', which
``identifies many Federal regulations and practices that could
be revised to eliminate unnecessary burdens to providing
Americans with affordable, safe, quality places to live,
including opportunities to make sustainable home ownership more
achievable.'' \1\ Which of the report's recommendations do you
agree with?
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\1\ https://www.huduser.gov/portal/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/
eliminating-regulatory-barriers-to-affordable-housing.pdf at ix.
A.10. As you noted, this report was just published on January
19th. I understand that there is also forthcoming research on
this same topic in HUD's Research Journal Cityscape. If
confirmed, I look forward to discussing the breadth of the
recent research on this topic with Congress, other Federal
agency leaders, HUD staff, the research community, and those
most impacted by these regulatory barriers to determine an
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
appropriate role for HUD and the Federal Government.
Q.11. Pilot Projects--In recent years, HUD has started some
important pilot programs to study the effectiveness of Housing
Choice Vouchers and to try to improve them for beneficiaries.
Would you be open to additional pilots? If so, what kinds of
pilots?
A.11. Yes, I am open to conducting pilots on the HCV program
especially as we also work to increase access to vouchers for
low-income families. The HCV program is the Nation's largest
rental assistance program serving over two million families.
However, as stated in my testimony, it only reaches 1 in 5
eligible households due to funding limitations. It is critical
that HUD continues to study the effectiveness of the program to
make improvements for our families, landlords, and public
housing agencies. Some of the pilots may include activities
such as improving safety inspections and housing modifications;
promoting interventions that reduce segregation of families
receiving assistance in disinvested communities and improve
housing choice; developing innovative practices that assist
disabled families, homeless families, youth aging out of foster
care, and other people who face additional barriers to
accessing housing; and implementing strategies that increase
landlords' willingness to accept voucher recipients.
Q.12. Ensuring That HUD Assistance Is Not for a ``Lifetime''--I
appreciated your comment that ``public housing or low income
housing should not be [for] a lifetime'' but ``just a stopping
point.'' What do you intend to do during your time as HUD
Secretary to advance that goal?
A.12. Shortening tenancy requires a two-part strategy:
increasing the supply of affordable housing and helping people
increase their incomes. We need to produce more housing in
every community that is affordable for people with low incomes.
Housing affordability studies show that no State in the country
has an adequate supply of affordable housing. HUD plays a key
role in affordable housing supply along with the Treasury
Department and USDA. If confirmed, I will work with Secretaries
Yellen and Vilsack to increase the number of affordable housing
units.
Second, we need to increase tenant incomes by raising wages
and helping people connect to education, training, and other
services that can help improve their economic circumstances.
While these issues are outside of HUD's direct
responsibilities, I will partner with my colleagues to examine
all the ways we can increase people's incomes to help them
afford a safe place to call home.
Q.13. Do you support expanding the number of Moving to Work
(MTW) jurisdictions to allow more communities to experiment on
how to make that a reality?
A.13. As you know, the Fiscal Year 2016 Appropriations Act
authorized HUD to expand the MTW demonstration program from the
39 PHAs in the program to an additional 100 PHAs over a period
of 7 years. In 2020, HUD finalized the Operations Notice for
the MTW demonstration program expansion, which established
requirements for the implementation and operations of the MTW
expansion pursuant to the 2016 statute. HUD added 30 new PHAs
to the MTW Program in January 2021, with plans to increase to
the full 100 expansion MTW agencies through 2022. If confirmed,
I am committed to working with the Congress as HUD follows
through on its requirements under the 2016 Act.
Q.14. Would you consider expanding MTW to allow defined-stay
tenancy for new tenants (time limits) in exchange for a set
rent that won't increase with income?
A.14. One of the key aspects of the MTW Expansion is HUD's
commitment to engage in structured research and analysis on
specific flexibilities offered to PHAs under the original
authorizing statute, including but not limited to tenancy
issues such as those your question suggests, in order to
provide HUD sound basis for future policy decisions. I am
committed to working with Congress as we study MTW
flexibilities going forward and work to determine policy and
practices that best serve residents of federally assisted
housing with the resources available to us.
Q.15. CDBG Reforms--Will you commit to evaluating whether the
CDBG program formula allocates too much money to wealthier
areas, at the expense of funding poorer and more rural areas?
If so, will you consider CDBG reforms that could address this
issue?
A.15. If confirmed, I will review past efforts to make changes
to the CDBG funding formula. I look forward to discussing with
members of Congress what further evaluation efforts are needed
to inform improvements to the formula targeting.
Q.16. Will you commit to evaluating whether the CDBG program
insufficiently prioritizes the building of affordable housing
because of other allowable uses for CDBG dollars? If so, will
you consider CDBG reforms that could address this issue?
A.16. If confirmed, I look forward to working with the HUD
staff and CDBG grantees to better understand how and why
grantees prioritize different community development activities
to meet their local program objectives. As a former mayor, I
appreciated that CDBG was not focused solely on housing. The
CDBG program has a community development approach, with a
broad, statutory goal of providing decent housing, a suitable
living environment, and economic opportunity, principally for
low- and moderate-income persons. HUD, as you know, has other
programs, like the HOME program, that are specifically targeted
to housing. I am committed to reviewing how the Department's
programs work together to produce affordable housing.
Q.17. Will you consider the possibility of supporting reforms
that could leverage existing CDBG dollars to reward grantees
that increase their housing stock, in order to improve housing
affordability?
A.17. With just 1 in 5 renters who qualify for HUD rental
assistance receiving it, and millions of very low-income
renters paying more than half their income for rent, there is a
pressing need to ensure that, in addition to housing subsidies,
there is an adequate supply of affordable housing. CDBG plays
an important role in preserving housing stock through
rehabilitation while the HOME program, Low Income Housing Tax
Credit, Public Housing, the Housing Choice Voucher, and Project
Based Rental Assistance programs support creation and long-term
subsidy needed for creating and preserving affordable housing.
If confirmed, I look forward to identifying local challenges
with creating affordable housing and discussing with the
Congress what policy tools, including incentives such as how
much CDBG funding a community receives, might be used to
support the creation of decent, safe, and affordable housing
for all Americans.
Q.18. CDBG-DR Reforms--What are appropriate guardrails to enact
in any potential permanent authorization to HUD's CDBG-DR
program to ensure that disaster relief reaches a community
swiftly but in a manner that minimizes fraud?
A.18. HUD has and will continue to provide technical drafting
services for the various CDBG-DR authorization proposals under
consideration. As I said during my testimony, I support a
permanent authorization and look forward to working with
Congress to ensure that HUD is a good steward of Federal funds
by expediting recovery activities while ensuring appropriate
oversight.
Q.19. What are appropriate guardrails to enact in any potential
permanent authorization to HUD's CDBG-DR program to eliminate
any potential duplication of benefit?
A.19. HUD has and will continue to provide technical drafting
services for the various CDBG-DR authorization proposals under
consideration. As I said during my testimony, I support a
permanent authorization and look forward to working with
Congress to ensure that HUD's role in disaster recovery is
complimentary of SBA, FEMA, and other programs and fills
critical gaps in recovery, especially by focusing on the most
vulnerable.
Q.20. Environmental Regulations--Regarding HUD's environmental
regulations that govern assisted programs, how will you balance
the need to protect the environment with the need to limit the
cost of building new affordable housing?
A.20. The history of redlining, urban renewal, and other
policies have forced too many families, especially poor people
of color, to live in undesirable areas. Many studies have shown
the disproportionate impact that our country's contaminated
sites have had on low-income housing. Having a roof over your
head and being safe from harm should not be competing choices.
That's why it's absolutely critical that HUD's mission is to
create safe, decent, and affordable homes for all.
Q.21. DPA--Downpayments for homes increase a lender's
confidence that the borrower is a good credit risk. They also
ensure the borrower has ``skin in the game.'' That's why
lenders often require a 20 percent downpayment. Put another
way, the downpayment protects both the lender and the borrower.
But as recently noted by HUD in its FY20 Report on the Mutual
Mortgage Insurance (MMI) Fund, when FHA borrowers secure
downpayment assistance (DPA)--in effect undermining the reason
for requiring even a minimal downpayment--serious delinquency
rates are over 25 percent higher than FHA loans where no DPA
was provided. \2\ Early payment default rates for DPA loans
exceeded non-DPA loans by about 60 percent prior to FY20. \3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\2\ See FY20 MMI Report at 30.
\3\ See id. at 39.
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You testified that you will explore ways to increase DPA
for more borrowers. How do you intend to do that?
A.21. There are hundreds of downpayment assistance programs
available nationwide and all DPA programs are not created
equal. If confirmed, I intend to review the current DPA
programs primarily used with FHA loans, and assess the
viability, risks, and benefits of each, as well as performance
data. We will work together with the Administration to find
ways to streamline, improve, and expand DPA programs to help
credit worthy households that need assistance to get over the
downpayment hurdle have options to buy their first home.
Q.22. Only 3 years after HUD's establishment, Congress
authorized FHA to insure loans with nominal downpayment
requirements and substantially below-market interest rates
through the decidedly unsuccessful 235 program, which cost
taxpayers billions in losses and led to many foreclosures.
Should you decide to support more DPA programs where borrowers
may have little or no money down for their home purchases, what
will you do differently to prevent FHA from insuring borrowers
not ready for home ownership?
A.22. If confirmed, I intend to find ways to bring more
efficiency to DPA programs and low-downpayment lending, and I
will work to ensure that people are given safe, appropriately
priced loans and they have the ability to repay. I will always
stand behind making sure loans are sustainable and homeowners
are put in the best position to succeed and build wealth.
Q.23. How will you concurrently make sure borrowers with DPA do
not perform significantly worse than borrowers without DPA?
A.23. Certainly, FHA will need to look at the performance of
mortgages by downpayment assistance type, the risk to the
Mutual Mortgage Insurance Fund, credit qualifications of
borrowers, and other factors when exploring options for the use
of downpayment assistance with FHA-insured mortgages.
Q.24. As you consider DPA for borrowers, will you examine and
report performance metrics of loans with DPA by individual DPA
providers to ensure they do not perform worse than loans
without DPA and commit to identifying any corrective measures?
A.24. Yes. As part of FHA's annual report to Congress on the
MMIF, I plan to continue to review and assess downpayment
assistance program performance and will make recommendations or
take corrective action, as appropriate.
Q.25. In what ways can HUD ensure taxpayers do not foot the
bill for bad credit risks?
A.25. I can assure you that any policy actions we propose will
only promote insuring safely underwritten mortgages for
borrowers who are otherwise unable to achieve home ownership
and will also take into account the risks and costs to the
Mutual Mortgage Insurance Fund.
Q.26. MIPs--Although the MMI Fund Capital Ratio remained above
the statutory minimum in FY20 at 6.10 percent (but still below
that of many private-market lenders), this was primarily due to
continued and strong house price appreciation (HPA). However,
as the 2008 economic recession demonstrated, strong HPA is not
sufficient to shield the MMI Fund from a sudden and severe
reversal in home prices. If home prices declined again, FHA
could require another taxpayer bailout. Delinquency rates
remain alarmingly elevated and Dave Stevens, the former FHA
Commissioner in the Obama administration, recently admitted
that ``forbearance numbers in the FHA program are the worst of
any program in mortgages . . . .'' \4\ A premium reduction
would sharply reduce the capital buffer and threaten FHA's
ability to withstand stress caused by potential losses
resulting from the COVID-19 pandemic and slower growth from
Government-imposed economic shutdowns. Moreover, few market
observers think a cut in the MIP would do much to stimulate
homebuying in a market with tight supply. \5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\4\ Hanna Lang, ``Biden Administration Likely To Cut FHA Premiums
Despite Credit Risks'', American Banker (Jan. 28, 2021), https://
www.americanbanker.com/news/biden-administration-likely-to-cut-fha-
premiums-despite-credit-risks.
\5\ Id.
Because the health of the MMI Fund continues to be at-risk,
will you commit to not lowering MIPs during COVID-19 public
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
health emergency?
A.26. People have lost their incomes and in some cases their
lives during COVID, and we are prioritizing helping families
remain safely housed through the pandemic. FHA plays a critical
role in times of crises such as this, and a priority will be to
ensure the fund is safe, stable, and sound and that we continue
to make access to credit available to populations seeking home
ownership. We have taken actions to keep families housed
through the pandemic using forbearance, a streamlined loss
mitigation program, and a foreclosure moratorium in line with
Federal law. Ultimately, I am fully committed to finding ways
to make home ownership more affordable and sustainable and to
advance equity in home ownership opportunity under my watch,
and we will use facts to drive our decisions and act when it's
safe to do so.
Q.27. If you do lower MIPs, how will you ensure borrowers will
see the benefits of such reductions?
A.27. Any considerations relative to changing FHA Mortgage
Insurance Premiums will need to be in concert with evaluating
the risk to the Mutual Mortgage Insurance Fund and ensuring
that there is a quantifiable benefit to the borrower. Interest
rates remain at historic lows, which naturally help borrower
mortgage affordability.
Q.28. Do you disagree with Ted Tozer, the former president of
Ginnie Mae in the Obama administration, that borrowers will not
``benefit much at all'' as any reduction will be reflected in
the sale price of homes? \6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\6\ Id.
A.28. I believe we have to look at the entirety of the
situation, including market factors, and I will take steps that
both benefit homebuyers and protect the safety and soundness of
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
the FHA insurance program.
Q.29. The FY20 Report on the MMI Fund shows that subjecting the
FY20 portfolio to the same macroeconomic conditions faced
during the housing crisis would create losses in excess of MMI
Fund Capital, resulting in the MMI Fund Capital Ratio of -0.63
percent, below the statutory 2 percent minimum, and requiring a
bailout.
Would you consider it a failure if FHA draws funds from the
Treasury to cover losses, or put more simply, requires a
bailout?
A.29. I will consider my fiduciary responsibility to prudently
manage the financial soundness of the Mutual Mortgage Insurance
Fund as equal to my duty to achieve the statutory goals of the
National Housing Act to remove home ownership inequities and
support the housing needs of the Nation's most vulnerable
populations. However, we are in an unprecedented economic
disaster as a result of COVID-19, and thus far Congress has not
provided assurances that it will pass the larger economic
stimulus proposed by President Biden. While still currently
unlikely that FHA's capital ratio will dip below the 2 percent
mandated by Congress, if confirmed, I will direct my staff to
analyze FHA's current use of its loss mitigation authorities
and take any actions necessary to ensure those authorities are
utilized effectively. After taking those steps, should the
capital ratio fall below 2 percent, will be a temporary
circumstance incurred by the Federal Government to ensure the
MMIF remains available to support the individuals and families
that it is supposed to serve while we endeavor to return the
ratio to above the statutorily mandated 2 percent.
Q.30. Do you think the MMI Fund as of FY20 has sufficient
capital reserves?
A.30. The MMIF is currently 3 times above the statutory minimum
required reserve ratio.
Q.31. Do you think it is inappropriate to build a capital
buffer able to withstand a shock of the kind experienced during
the 2008 housing crisis?
A.31. This crisis is very different than the 2008 housing
crisis thus far, as home prices have not dipped nor do
borrowers have unsafe or exotic high priced loan types like
what we saw in the last crisis. Looking at natural disasters as
a comparison is more appropriate as we think about the capital
buffer we need to endure future crises.
Q.32. Do you have plans to impose the same climate stress tests
and climate change regulatory standards on FHA's lending
portfolio as several Biden administration officials have
discussed doing for private sector market participants?
A.32. I do believe it is important that FHA's Mutual Mortgage
Insurance Fund is managed using appropriate modeling and
``stress testing'' to have an appropriate capital buffer to
withstand significant economic shock events. Certainly, we will
continue to evaluate the stress testing we are using and will
analyze climate change stress testing outcomes for the FHA
program.
Q.33. Manufactured Housing--The Manufactured Housing Consensus
Committee (MHCC) is a Federal Advisory Committee statutorily
authorized to develop and submit to the HUD Secretary
manufactured home construction and safety standards. The law
requires the MHCC to ``submit proposed revised standards . . .
to the [HUD] Secretary in the form of a proposed rule,
including an economic analysis.'' 42 U.S.C. 5403(a)(4)(A)(ii).
Accordingly, the MHCC must have resources devoted to developing
these required economic analyses.
Will you provide resources that are necessary for the MHCC
to develop economic analyses to accompany the construction and
safety standards being considered by the MHCC so that the
standards are revised to keep up with innovations in the
market?
A.33. Manufactured Housing is a critical source of unsubsidized
affordable housing, and as I mentioned in my testimony, I will
explore more ways to further its use as an affordable housing
option. As mandated by statute, the Manufactured Housing
Consensus Committee (MHCC) assists HUD in formulating and
evaluating its oversight functions of the Manufactured Home
Construction and Safety Standards. HUD agrees the MHCC should
have adequate resources necessary to achieve its purpose. HUD
program office and research staffing resources provide economic
analysis assistance and HUD's Office of Manufactured Housing
Programs maintains sufficient contracted resources that conduct
economic analyses for MHCC recommendations.
Q.34. Rental Assistance--Dean Rouse testified that to put the
economy on strong economic footing, money appropriated by
Congress needs to be targeted, smart, and in areas where we
know the economic benefit outweighs the cost.
Do you agree that Congressional support needs to be
targeted so that benefits outweigh costs?
Is providing housing assistance without confirming
household need a smart or targeted method of spending
appropriated dollars?
A.34. If we are both confirmed, I look forward to working with
Dean Rouse on how we can target the resources Congress provides
to ensure a solid economic footing for all Americans. As you
know, HUD plays a critical role by providing rental assistance
that not only prevents homelessness for millions of Americans.
HUD's programs have been shown to help families with low
incomes afford other basic needs like food, health care, and
childcare. HUD's rental assistance program rules are already
designed to target those with the lowest incomes, and local
programs can institute additional targeting preferences as
permitted by law. The challenge for HUD programs isn't that
they aren't targeted, it is that funding levels are inadequate
to meet the need. Millions of very low-income families pay more
than half their income for rent each month because they do not
receive Federal assistance due to lack of funding. Similarly,
the Federal Housing Administration plays a critical role making
affordable mortgage credit available to first time homebuyers
and underserved populations. During economic crises, we must
use all of the tools at our disposal to ensure that all people
remain safely and stably housed. Targeting assistance to
prioritize the places and people who are most in need is always
the goal, as is ensuring equity in allocations and getting
funds in hands of struggling households expeditiously.
Q.35. Delinquent Federal Tax Debt--Borrowers with delinquent
Federal tax debt are ineligible for FHA loans but HUD OIG
discovered that FHA fails to verify with the IRS whether
borrowers have such debt. \7\ In FY18 alone, FHA insured over
56,000 loans to borrowers with delinquent Federal tax debt
worth $13 billion. OIG also found that for FY18, the serious
delinquency rate was almost 89 percent higher for those loans
than that of the general population.
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\7\ https://www.hudoig.gov/sites/default/files/2019-10/2019-KC-
0003.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How can FHA realistically protect taxpayers if it insures
loans for people who fail to pay their own taxes?
Can you commit to work with the Department of the Treasury
to ensure FHA can verify prospective borrowers do not have
delinquent Federal tax debt?
A.35. While I would be unable to comment on the exact scenario
that led to the previous Administration's insurance of
mortgages to individuals with delinquent tax debt, HUD is
required to comply with the Debt Collection Improvement Act of
1996 (DCIA). This law requires that Federal agencies refer
delinquent debtors to the Department of the Treasury's Treasury
Offset Program (TOP), for withholding of any eligible Federal
payments, including Social Security benefit payments. I will
ensure that this process continues.
Q.36. Depository Institution Participation--Many depository
institutions lend in their communities and banks' participation
in FHA is critically important for FHA's first-time homebuyers
and minority borrowers. Will you commit to working to bring
banks into FHA so that first-time homebuyers and minority
borrowers continue to have access to credit?
A.36. Robust participation in FHA programs by quality lending
institutions, regardless of their structure, is something that
I will continue to encourage. To date, the majority of FHA
lender participants are nondepository institutions. It would be
beneficial for FHA to have greater participation by
depositories to make FHA-insured mortgage financing more easily
available to borrowers, and to better balance counterparty
risk. Bringing large bank lenders and regional banks back to
the FHA program will be one of my priorities. It means more
people have access to credit and a shot at home ownership and
will help us meet goals for equity and support more communities
that have historically not been served by these financial
institutions.
Q.37. Rental Assistance Programs--In December, Congress enacted
a new $25 billion rental assistance program to help renters who
have fallen behind on their bills.
Even though that program will be run through the Treasury
Department and not HUD, do you support that program?
The National Low Income Housing Coalition claims that
renters may owe $57 billion in back rent. Do you think that
Congress should prioritize funding to address that backlog,
which would help to remove the treat of eviction from landlords
who, in some cases, may not have received their past-due rent
for nine or more months?
Do you support making sure that any future funding
appropriated to the emergency COVID rental assistance program
is used exclusively to retire those arrears and get those
renters out from under the threat of eviction?
A.37. I understand that HUD has been providing answers to
Treasury's questions as they have been working to implement the
new $25 billion Emergency Rental Assistance program. If
confirmed, it will be one of my highest priorities to continue
whatever HUD can legally do to support Secretary Yellen's
implementation of this important program.
I agree that Congress should provide funding to help people
pay back rent owed due to the health and economic crises.
Rental housing depends on responsible landlords providing safe,
decent housing. To do that effectively, landlords need to
receive the rent. Many landlords have mortgages that need to be
paid, all have taxes, insurance, utilities, and maintenance
costs to be paid. The growing rent arrearages is certainly
negatively impacting landlords and their tenants.
Treasury's Emergency Rental Assistance program will play an
important role at helping not only prevent eviction but
ensuring landlords get the funding they need to continue to
provide safe and decent housing. I look forward to working with
the Congress to craft effective policies that keep Americans
housed as this crisis continues to evolve.
Q.38. Homelessness--In 2020, HUD estimated that the homeless
population of the United States exceeded 560,000, driven in
large part by substantial increases in California and New York,
which have four of the top five cities in terms of homeless
populations. As the homeless population continues to increase
in places like New York City, Los Angles, San Diego, and San
Jose, it is clear that the strategies those places are using to
reduce homelessness are simply not working.
Can you explain what the permanent supportive housing
method known as Housing First entails?
Are you aware that the Housing First model prohibits, as a
condition of receiving funding, homeless services providers
from creating safe spaces free from drugs and alcohol use for
chronically homeless individuals in need of sobriety services,
or that it prohibits requiring individuals suffering from
severe mental illness from having to take psychiatric
medications?
By awarding Federal funding through a Housing First model,
HUD is essentially locking out successful homeless services
providers with long track records of both sheltering
chronically homeless individuals and treating their alcohol,
drug, or mental illness issues to increase their chances to
remain permanently housed. As Secretary, will you commit to
reviewing HUD's Housing First formula bias and working to
ensure that all providers of successful homeless services have
equal access to Federal funding, even those with programs that
feature sobriety or mental health treatment requirements?
A.38. Housing First is an approach that is applied to a variety
of different types of programs, including permanent supportive
housing, rapid rehousing, and transitional housing. The
techniques used as part of a Housing First approach are
tailored to the specific needs of each person being served.
However, all projects that use a Housing First approach share
three elements:
There are low barriers to entry, meaning that
people can be served by programs using a Housing First
approach, regardless of the barriers they face.
Housing First programs focus first on helping
people move into safe and stable housing as quickly as
possible. One of the reasons Housing First approaches
are effective is that when people are in safe and
stable housing, they are much better able to address
the challenges that led to their homelessness.
A Housing First approach involves providing
customized and client-driven supports, which may
include primary health, behavioral health, employment,
and education.
If confirmed, a primary goal will be to ensure that HUD
provides the most effective assistance possible. I support
using a Housing First approach because numerous studies have
shown it is the most effective strategy for reducing
homelessness. If confirmed, during my tenure, HUD will continue
to look at all different approaches and promote ones that
evidence shows will most help us achieve our goal of ending
homelessness.
Q.39. In August, GAO reported that HUD may be misstating the
size of the U.S. homeless population because of flawed data
collection and monitoring processes. One factor in that flawed
data collection is the use of different definitions of the term
``homeless'' by different Federal agencies, like the Department
of Education. For example, GAO stated: ``The definition of
homeless that Education uses is broader than HUD's.[and]
includes children and youth who are sharing the housing of
other persons due to loss of housing, economic hardship, or a
similar reason (that is, are doubled up); living in motels,
hotels, trailer parks, or camping grounds due to the lack of
alternative adequate accommodations; or living in substandard
housing.'' The result of that disparity is that over one
million children who qualify as homeless by part of the Federal
Government are omitted and cut off from assistance by HUD under
its more restricted definition.
Do you support the inclusion of all children who are
homeless within the HUD definition of homeless so that they can
access HUD funding along with adults?
A.39. I look forward to discussing the issues you raise. With
respect to the definition of homelessness, any expansion of the
definition of homelessness should also be coupled with
additional resources. The challenge is that we don't have
enough resources to serve those who currently meet HUD's
homelessness definition, and I think we need to ensure families
living in crowded shelters or on the street receive the housing
and services they need. I recognize that many families live on
the edge of homelessness and need help finding and maintaining
affordable housing.
Therefore, I am interested in ways to expand housing
assistance so that all people who are eligible for assistance
receive it. As I said in my testimony, only 1 in 5 households
who are eligible for rental assistance receive it. Increasing
access to HUD assistance is essential not only to ending
homelessness but to ensuring families on the edge of
homelessness stay housed. Finally, increasing access to
affordable housing also includes partnering with communities to
accelerate the development of affordable housing and ensuring
homeless families and youth are prioritized for health care,
education, employment, and other needed services.
Q.40. As Secretary, would you support the harmonizing of the
definition of homeless across all Federal agencies?
A.40. I will reenergize HUD's efforts to partner with other
Federal agencies to ensure that Federal programs across the
board are doing as much as possible to prevent and end
homelessness.
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RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR COTTON
FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE
Q.1. An issue that has garnered bipartisan support on this
Committee has been the regulation of Property Assessed Clean
Energy loans. An important part of these efforts was a decision
issued by HUD in 2017 to stop issuing FHA insurance on homes
that carry PACE liens. The rationale behind this decision was
two-fold. First, by placing PACE loans in a first-lien
position, this program put the Federal Government--and the
taxpayers who stand behind FHA--in a second loss position. And
second, the lack of consumer protections associated with PACE
lending led to documented abuses at the hands of predatory
lenders.
Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the VA all ban PACE lending,
just like FHA. If confirmed to lead HUD, will you continue to
protect both homeowners and taxpayers by maintaining a strong
ban on FHA insuring mortgages with PACE liens?
A.1. Yes. I am committed to protecting homeowners and taxpayers
and maintaining this policy. I agree that the current FHA
policy on Property Assessed Clean Energy (PACE) loans is
consistent and prudent for the housing finance industry, and
the current PACE structure that subordinates FHA to second lien
position puts the FHA insurance program and taxpayers at risk.
As you know, energy efficiency and climate are key priorities
for the Administration, and I believe that housing has a role
to play in that. If I am confirmed, I hope that progress can be
made to improve and expand sustainable and equitable clean
energy housing programs, and I commit to working across
agencies, with the White House Climate Council, and with
Congress to determine affordable ways to ensure safe and
efficient home construction, manufacturing and financing
options for homeowners who wish to make energy efficient
improvements to their homes. This is an area we will continue
to evaluate.
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RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR KENNEDY
FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE
Q.1. In 2020, five categorized storms struck Louisiana,
affecting all 64 parishes across the State. The most powerful
of these storms, Hurricane Laura, hit Southwest Louisiana as a
Category 4 storm and is one of the strongest storms to make
landfall in American history. Because of the previous
Administration's decision to issue major disaster declarations
prior to landfall for both Hurricanes Laura and Delta, many
lives were saved across Louisiana. However, the physical
damages to homes, businesses, and infrastructure were
extensive. Hurricane Laura alone caused an estimated $14
billion in damages. Hurricane Delta further compounded the
damage when it made landfall in the same area just 42 days
later. The Louisiana Governor, and the Louisiana Congressional
delegation have called for disaster relief appropriations that
would focus primarily on HUD's Community Development Block
Grants for Disaster Relief. This funding is imperative to fill
the gap between available funds.
Louisiana's citizens are resilient, but our State and local
resources cannot cope with these hurricanes' severity and
frequency without emergency supplemental assistance. As
Secretary of HUD, will you urge the President to make this
request to Congress for these funds?
A.1. Over the past decade, communities across the country have
witnessed a historic number of deadly and destructive weather
and climate events. In 2020 alone, there were 22 weather and
climate disaster events with losses exceeding $1 billion each
to affect the United States--a new record. If confirmed, I will
work with HUD and FEMA to estimate unmet recovery needs and
work with the President to implement his historic vision for
building back better.
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RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF
SENATOR MENENDEZ FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE
Q.1. Healthy Housing--Last Congress, Senator Scott and I
introduced and passed into law our CO Alerts Act, which
requires carbon monoxide alarms in federally assisted housing
units that have potential carbon monoxide sources like gas-
fired appliances, fireplaces, forced air furnaces, and attached
garages. Since carbon monoxide is a silent killer, carbon
monoxide alarms are the only way to safely detect the poison's
presence.
How will you prioritize implementing this bill to ensure
public housing residents' exposure to danger from carbon
monoxide is reduced each successive winter?
A.1. I was very pleased to see that the CO Alerts Act was
enacted as part of the FY2021 Consolidated Appropriations Act.
The CO Alerts Act aligns with my commitment to ensure that
public housing offers safe homes for all residents. And even
though the Act allows up to 2 years to implement, if confirmed
as Secretary, I will pursue implementation of the Act as
quickly as possible. I hope that Congress will follow up on the
authorization of funds with a specific appropriation. This
would allow the Department to build on steps already taken to
eliminate carbon monoxide exposure risks over the past 2 years,
including the Department having provided in the past 12 months
nearly $10 million in funding for 117 public housing agencies
to install carbon monoxide detectors in thousands of
residential units across the Nation.
Q.2. Another poison present in Federal housing is lead. Senator
Scott and I also have a bill on this issue, the Lead-Safe
Housing for Kids Act.
Will you consider reevaluating how HUD currently conducts
risk assessments and how current evaluation tools are used to
identify lead hazards in federally assisted housing before a
family moves in?
A.2. First, I want to thank you and Senators Durbin and Scott
for introducing the Lead-Safe Housing for Kids Act in 2019.
Every child, regardless of their zip code, deserves a safe and
healthy place to lay their head at night. The Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention consistently cautions that no
level of lead exposure is safe. As I am sure you know, based on
Title X, HUD already requires, with only a few exceptions, all
older HUD-assisted public housing and project-based rental
housing to have a risk assessment followed by control of any
lead-based paint hazards identified. However, Title X does not
authorize HUD to require the same risk assessments in the
Housing Choice Voucher program. It is my understanding that in
an effort to address the problem, HUD conducts visual
assessments for deteriorating paint, followed by stabilization
of the area identified.
If confirmed, I will explore how HUD currently conducts
risk assessments and how visual assessments are used to
identify lead hazards in tenant-based housing before a family
moves into pre-1978 housing. HUD's Real Estate Assessment
Center developed a lead inspection methodology and performed a
pilot test in FFY20 as a prototype inspection for public
housing agencies that received funding for lead abatement. In
addition, a recent Government Accountability Office (GAO)
report recommended that HUD take definitive actions to address
lead hazards in its project-based rental assistance properties.
If confirmed, I will ensure that HUD develops an action plan to
address the findings in the GAO report, which is a start to
reevaluating this issue on a larger scale.
Q.3. Puerto Rico--In September 2017, Puerto Rico was nearly
destroyed after being hit by two back-to-back category 5
hurricanes. Under the Trump administration, HUD wrapped
financial aid in so much red tape, that 3 years after the
hurricanes the island has only received $3.2 billion of the
nearly $20 billion that Congress appropriated in CDBG-DR funds
between 2017 and 2018.
Congresswoman Fudge, can you commit to working with the
people of Puerto Rico to ensure that they get all of the
congressionally appropriated funding as expediently as
possible?
A.3. Yes. We will work to ensure that Puerto Rico receives the
Federal disaster reconstruction funding that it urgently needs
to support the long-term recovery of Puerto Rico and increase
its ability to withstand any future storms.
Q.4. Elderly Housing--HUD rental housing programs bring
affordable housing to more than 1.9 million older adults, a
population ravaged by COVID-19.
Under your leadership, how will HUD ensure the federally
assisted senior housing communities have the tools and
resources they need to protect residents and staff?
A.4. Safeguarding the welfare of older adults across the
Department is, and must remain, one of our highest priorities.
While older adults are the focus of the Section 202 Supportive
Housing for the Elderly program, older Americans are supported
by nearly all HUD programs including public housing, tenant-
based rental assistance, and project-based rental assistance.
The Department will continue to Administer supplemental funding
provided by Congress and to protect residents and staff.
Supplemental funding appropriated by Congress is being used to
support a variety of resident safety measures, such as personal
protective equipment, extra cleaning and disinfecting,
equipment to facilitate social distancing, and temporary
staffing increases to maintain or enhance ongoing service
coordination for residents. HUD should also strengthen its
partnerships with HHS and State and local public health
agencies to ensure that older Americans are vaccinated. If
confirmed, I look forward to working with you to ensure older
adults are protected in HUD-assisted housing.
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RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR WARREN
FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE
Q.1. Eviction poses a severe threat to families and to public
health, and new research shows that a strong eviction
moratorium can save lives during this pandemic. While the CDC
eviction moratorium has been a critical intervention, it must
be strengthened. The Trump administration made the moratorium
as weak as possible--the order allows landlords to file
eviction proceedings, requires renters to sign a declaration
under penalty of perjury that could be intimidating, and allows
landlords to evict renters who do not know their rights. The
Administration also failed to conduct public outreach--
particularly troubling because eligible renters do not
automatically receive eviction protection--and did not enforce
the ban.
Will you work with the CDC to strengthen the moratorium?
A.1. If confirmed, I will direct my staff to work with CDC to
look for ways to strengthen their moratorium.
Q.2. Will you conduct public outreach to renters and landlords
regarding the moratorium, including in multiple languages?
A.2. The Limited English Proficiency Initiative provides
funding for the creation and promotion of translated materials
and other programs that support the assistance of persons with
limited English proficiency in utilizing the services provided
by the Department of Housing and Urban Development. If
confirmed, I will direct my staff to work with CDC staff to
provide public outreach regarding the moratorium to renters and
housing providers, which would include sharing information in
multiple languages.
Q.3. Will you work with other agencies to ensure there is
meaningful enforcement of the moratorium?
A.3. The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) prosecutes violations
of the moratorium. If confirmed and asked for guidance on
enforcement, I will direct my staff to work with DOJ staff to
find ways to more meaningfully enforce the moratorium, based on
HUD's experiences enforcing regulations for our own housing
programs.
Q.4. Will you work with housing advocacy organizations and low-
income renters to determine necessary changes to strengthen the
order?
A.4. If confirmed, I will ensure that we listen to the concerns
of housing advocacy organizations and low-income renters before
making determinations about our consultations with the CDC on
the future of their eviction moratorium.
Q.5. In 2016, HUD found that ``transgender and gender
nonconforming persons continue to experience significant
violence, harassment, and discrimination in attempting to
access programs, benefits, services, and accommodations'' and
reported that ``transgender persons are often discriminatorily
excluded from shelters or face dangerous conditions in the
shelters that correspond to their sex assigned at birth.''
Will HUD abandon the Trump administration's proposed rule
undermining the 2016 Equal Access rule protections?
A.5. Yes, HUD will withdraw the proposed rule. Transgender and
gender nonconforming persons experience extremely high rates of
homelessness, and historically, emergency shelters have not
appropriately and consistently met the needs of these
communities. The 2016 rule helps protect transgender persons
from discrimination in emergency shelters, and I am committed
to enforcing it. Furthermore, HUD will republish training
materials that help communities effectively implement the 2016
rule.
Q.6. We face a worsening affordable housing crisis that is
hitting families of color the hardest. Today, there are only 36
affordable rental homes available for every 100 extremely low-
income families, and a housing shortage exists for all families
making below the area median income. Tackling this crisis will
require significant, targeted investments in building
affordable housing for the lowest-income Americans, like the
Housing Trust Fund.
Will you advocate for investments in the Housing Trust Fund
in the HUD budget and in an infrastructure package or other
legislation?
A.6. I support President Biden's plan for investing in our
communities through housing, including his call for increased
investment in the Housing Trust Fund.
Q.7. Amidst an ongoing affordable housing crisis, it is
critical to preserve and maintain existing affordable housing,
including 1.2 million public housing units. Years of chronic
underfunding have resulted in an estimated $70 billion backlog
of repairs to the existing public housing stock.
Will you advocate for investments in the Public Housing
Capital Fund in the HUD budget and in an infrastructure package
or other legislation?
A.7. In the opening statement of my testimony, I voiced my
conviction that we must work together to improve the quality,
safety, and accessibility of affordable housing throughout the
Nation. Many communities suffer from disinvestment; and
unfortunately, given the age of much of the public housing
stock, the level of funding for public housing has been
insufficient to address the backlog of repairs.
Modernization of HUD's housing stock would allow us to
accomplish multiple objectives: strengthening our economy
through energy retrofitting which will generate green jobs,
addressing health hazards, and, most importantly, creating
high-quality living conditions for some of our most vulnerable
communities. If confirmed, I welcome the opportunity to work
with you on significant capital investment in our public
housing portfolio.
Q.8. As of October 2020, HUD had still not established
conditions for using CDBG-DR funds to implement long-term
repairs to Puerto Rico's energy grids following the 2017
hurricanes, or approved any long-term grid recovery projects.
Will you prioritize getting appropriated disaster relief
money to Puerto Rico, and addressing administrative roadblocks
that have prevented Puerto Rico from using that funding?
A.8. Yes. We will work to ensure that Puerto Rico receives the
Federal disaster reconstruction funding that it urgently needs
to support the long-term recovery of Puerto Rico and increase
its ability to withstand any future storms. In addition, I will
work with HUD to take additional administrative steps to remove
unnecessary barriers to distributing much-needed housing
recovery funds.
Q.9. President Biden has committed to take a ``housing first''
approach to ending homelessness, and to conduct a review of
Federal housing programs to ensure they pursue and incentivize
this approach. Will you encourage the U.S. Interagency Council
on Homelessness to appoint an Executive Director who has a
demonstrated commitment to a ``housing first'' approach?
A.9. Yes. I agree that the Executive Director of USICH serves a
critical role in shaping the Nation's homelessness response.
That role must be filled by a person who understands and
follows the evidence. Numerous studies and the experiences of
communities across the country show that Housing First
approaches are the most effective way to address homelessness
for the vast majority of people. I will ensure that it is the
primary strategy promoted by HUD and I will advocate for a new
USICH Executive Director who understands and supports Housing
First strategies.
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RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR SMITH
FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE
Q.1. On November 27, 2019, a fire broke out on the upper floors
of Cedar High Apartments, a public housing building in
Minneapolis, Minnesota. Five residents tragically lost their
lives in the fire. In the wake of this tragedy, I learned that
Cedar High Apartments, like so many other multifamily public
housing buildings around the country, was built long before
1992, when Congress passed a law requiring new public housing
to be equipped with automatic sprinkler systems.
As a result, the Federal sprinkler requirement does not
apply to Cedar High Apartments, and any efforts to voluntarily
upgrade fire safety in that building have to be funded by the
Minneapolis Public Housing Authority's limited capital funds.
Improving fire safety in public housing should be a core
part of fulfilling HUD's mission to provide safe, stable
housing to low-income families. I also see this as an issue of
equity, since public housing residents are disproportionately
people of color and people with disabilities. We must do
everything we can to ensure that these individuals are safe in
their own homes.
I authored a bill, the Public Housing Fire Safety Act, to
help public housing agencies fund efforts to improve fire
safety in older public housing buildings. Rep. Fudge, if
confirmed, will you commit to working with me to get this
effort across the finish line and provide funding for efforts
to retrofit older public housing buildings with sprinkler
systems?
A.1. I am committed to working with you to ensure that the
Nation's public housing properties meet high standards for
safety and security. Fire safety is one of a number of critical
issues that must be addressed in order to ensure that the homes
of public housing residents are safe places to live. As
referenced in your question, the Federal Fire Safety Act of
1992 required the installation of sprinklers in all new
Government-owned high-rise buildings, but not in the thousands
of public housing developments around the country built before
that date. Given the age of the public housing portfolio and
the backlog of capital needs faced by many public housing
agencies, additional capital funds are necessary to quickly
address health and safety risks, including fire safety. If
confirmed, I look forward to working with you and Congress on
this important issue.
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RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR SINEMA
FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE
Q.1. As you know, rental assistance dollars are administered by
the Treasury Department. However, if confirmed, you will have
an important role as HUD Secretary in advising the president on
how he should engage on relief disbursement. Arizona struggled
to allocate the rental assistance dollars provided by the CARES
Act. Much of the backlog seems to have been attributed to
onerous requirements at the State level, which require renters
to go to great lengths and provide excessive paperwork to prove
financial damage due to the coronavirus outbreak. While it is
vital we prevent fraud in all Federal coronavirus relief
programs, we also need the relief to get to Americans who are
hurting. If confirmed, how will you help streamline rental
assistance programs, including those in Arizona, so that
dollars get to those in need in a timely manner?
A.1. I understand that HUD staff are providing technical
support and participating in stakeholder listening sessions as
the Treasury Department revises guidance published by the
previous Administration on the recently funded Emergency Rental
Assistance program. It is a top priority to provide whatever
assistance HUD may legally provide to Treasury Secretary
Yellen, as her team seeks to implement this important program
quickly and effectively. I am also committed to learning more
about what barriers are slowing the expenditure of HUD CARES
funded programs in order to take actions that will speed up the
effective expenditure of those funds. We must do whatever we
can with the resources we have to quickly support people who
are housing insecure due to the health and economic crises.
Q.2. As you know, HUD's definition of homelessness excludes
children and youth living in motels or staying with other
people temporarily, effectively and systematically preventing
many families and children from receiving any HUD assistance.
Every year, there are efforts to broad and align HUD's
definition of homelessness with those of other Federal
agencies, such as the Department of Education and the
Department of Health and Human Services. The coronavirus
outbreak has led to record-breaking homelessness levels,
including homeless children.
How do you feel about aligning HUD's definition with other
agencies?
Would you be willing to waive any HUD regulation or
practice that restricts access to housing and homeless
assistance for children, youth, and families who are
experiencing homelessness as a result of the coronavirus
outbreak?
How else do you plan to combat families and youth
experiencing homelessness?
A.2. I look forward to discussing the issues you raise. With
respect to the definition of homelessness, any expansion of the
definition of homelessness should also be coupled with
additional resources. The challenge is that we do not have
enough resources to serve those who currently meet the
homelessness definition, and we must ensure families living in
crowded shelters or on the street receive the housing and
services they need. I recognize that many families live on the
edge of homelessness and need help finding and maintaining
affordable housing. I will reenergize HUD's efforts to partner
with other Federal agencies to ensure that Federal programs
across the board are doing as much to prevent and end
homelessness as possible. I will also explore every waiver and
authority available to ensure that HUD's programs are assisting
as many people as possible during the pandemic.
I am also interested in ways to expand housing assistance
so that all people who are eligible for assistance receive it.
As I said in my testimony, only 1 in 5 households who are
eligible for Federal rental assistance receive it. Increasing
access to HUD assistance is essential not only to ending
homelessness but to ensuring families on the edge of
homelessness stay housed. Finally, increasing access to
affordable housing also includes partnering with communities to
accelerate the development of affordable housing and ensuring
homeless families and youth are prioritized for health care,
education, employment, and other needed services.
Q.3. In addition to our families and children, I am concerned
about homelessness levels for Arizona seniors and veterans. How
do you plan to combat homelessness in these demographics?
A.3. I am very troubled by the rise in homelessness among
seniors. We need to ensure that there is enough affordable and
accessible housing to ensure that seniors do not fall into
homelessness. For those seniors who are homeless now or become
homeless in the future, we need to ensure that we help them
move quickly into housing and connect them with the health care
and other services they need. I will work closely with my
counterparts at HHS and with communities to coordinate housing
and health care, and I will advocate for more affordable
housing opportunities for seniors.
HUD's partnership with VA is crucial for ending
homelessness among our Nation's veterans. The HUD-VA Supportive
Housing (HUD-VASH) program has helped reduce veteran
homelessness by half since 2010 and several communities report
ending homelessness for veterans. However, HUD-VASH is facing
new challenges, particularly in communities where housing costs
have skyrocketed. I will work to reenergize this partnership,
increase the impact of HUD-VASH, and look for opportunities to
direct housing assistance to more veterans with low incomes who
need housing subsidies but do not need intensive supportive
services.
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RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR BROWN
FROM CECILIA E. ROUSE
Q.1. Last year women lost the most jobs in our economy--in fact
in December, women accounted for all 140,000 of the net job
losses that month. And that doesn't even account for all the
women who've been forced out of the labor market altogether.
You were on the CEA during the height of the Great Recession,
and you've spent your career studying racial and gender gaps in
the labor force. How do we address the job losses
disproportionately hurting women and Black and brown workers?
A.1. This pandemic has disproportionately hurt women and Black
and brown workers, but it was able to do so because of long-
standing inequities in our society. This is a moment of urgency
but also of opportunity unlike anything we've faced in modern
times: the urgency of ending a devastating crisis, and the
opportunity to build a better economy that works for everyone.
As we work to build that better economy, the CEA will always
take into account the impacts of policies on disadvantaged and
underrepresented communities.
Q.2. Even before this pandemic, workers' economic security was
eroding and the middle class was shrinking. For decades, we've
been losing many well-paying, middle class, union jobs--like
the manufacturing jobs in my home State of Ohio. The cost of
everything from child care to housing to education has gone up.
Meanwhile, we've seen a rise in the so-called ``gig economy,''
which we know is just another way to cut costs and exploit
workers. Long term, how do we build an economy that honors the
dignity of all work?
A.2. We need to start by not thinking that the average outcome
is what everyone in America is experiencing. We need to look at
unemployment rates for all groups, at wage growth for different
wage levels, and economic outcomes in communities across the
country. As part of that effort, we will need to carefully
examine the ways in which our institutions may need updating to
fit the modern labor market. An economy that works for everyone
is an economy that will grow faster and provide more economic
benefits to all of us.
Q.3. Where have you excelled in past positions in hiring and
promoting people of color in your previous jobs?
A.3. I served three terms as chair of the American Economic
Association's Committee on the Status of Minority Groups in the
Economics Professions, established to increase the
representation of minorities in the economics profession. In
addition, as dean of the Princeton School of Public and
International Affairs (SPIA), I have made it a priority to
diversify our faculty, staff, and student body. This included
shoring up programs to ensure that students of color were in
the policymaker pipeline.
Q.4. In August 2011, President Obama issued an Executive order
establishing a coordinated, governmentwide initiative to
promote diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in the Federal
workforce. The Executive order reads, in part, that ``Attaining
a diverse, qualified workforce is one of the cornerstones of
the merit-based civil service . . . To realize more fully the
goal of using the talents of all segments of society, the
Federal Government must continue to challenge itself to enhance
its ability to recruit, hire, promote, and retain a more
diverse workforce. Further, the Federal Government must create
a culture that encourages collaboration, flexibility, and
fairness to enable individuals to participate to their full
potential.'' The order required each agency to establish an
agency-specific diversity, equity, and inclusion strategic plan
with specific objectives.
Please describe your commitment to diverse hiring at the
Council of Economic Advisers (CEA). Will you establish an
agency-specific diversity, equity, and inclusion strategic plan
with specific objectives?
A.4. I am deeply committed to creating a more diverse CEA than
has existed in the past. I am ready to work with my team to
make this a reality.
Q.5. What are some short- and long-term strategies for
addressing wealth disparities, income disparities, and
employment and unemployment disparities?
A.5. In the short-term, we must address the economic fallout
from the pandemic, which has had a disproportionate effect on
communities of color. As we build back better, we must look for
policies that not only address income and wealth disparities,
but must also ensure that programs built to shore up the
economy do not leave out Black and brown workers. In order to
pay for some of these strategic investments, the President is
committed to ensuring that everyone pays their fair share--
which suggests that tax policy will be a potential tool for
addressing inequality.
Q.6. Have you previously implemented and required diversity,
equity, and inclusion training for all employees and implicit
bias training for managers within your purview?
A.6. As dean of the Princeton School of Public and
International Affairs (SPIA), I offered DEI training for
faculty, staff, and students and strongly encouraged them all
to participate. However, I did not require participation, as
evidence shows that voluntary participation is more successful
than mandatory.
Q.7. Will you commit to implementing and requiring diversity,
equity, and inclusion training for all employees within your
purview? What is your plan for implementing these trainings?
A.7. At CEA, as I did at SPIA, I will strongly encourage
participation in such programs.
Q.8. Will you commit to implementing and requiring implicit
bias training for managers within your purview? What is your
plan for implementing these trainings?
A.8. At CEA, as I did at SPIA, I will strongly encourage
participation in such programs.
Q.9. Please describe how you view the role of Chair of the CEA
in appropriately serving Black, Indigenous, and People of Color
(BIPOC)? How do you view the CEA's role in furthering racial
equity?
A.9. The most important role I can play as Chair of CEA is to
help build an economy that works for everybody.
Q.10. Please list at least 3 specific priorities for advancing
racial equity, diversity, and inclusion at CEA. What specific
measures will you use to evaluate success in these areas, and
over what period of time?
A.10. Three priorities that will go a long way in advancing DEI
are: (1) promoting data collection that includes adequate
samples of all parts of our population so that we can get a
clear picture of their circumstances; (2) shoring up the safety
net; and (3) advocating that strategic investments in Build
Back Better include workers of color and other underrepresented
populations. The CEA will work with Congress to design
appropriate measures to evaluate success.
Q.11. Please describe how you plan to work with the
Administration and engage all sectors of our economy to serve
Black, Indigenous, and People of Color (BIPOC) and dismantle
systemic racism's impact on the economy? How will you
accelerate private sector efforts to achieve more inclusive
leadership?
A.11. The CEA will work with the Administration to identify
ways that systemic racism has been an obstacle to Black,
Indigenous, and People of Color's ability to participate fully
in the economy.
Q.12. Will you establish an office or position committed to
advancing DEI?
A.12. We will hire staff committed to examining economic policy
that can advance DEI. Importantly DEI should be a lens through
which all economic policies are analyzed.
Q.13. What specific measures will you use to evaluate CEA's
success in understanding and addressing the needs of BIPOC?
Will you regularly report to Congress on the progress being
made on these measures?
A.13. At the heart of understanding and addressing the needs of
BIPOC is making sure that the data we use do not leave them
out. We have to improve the data we utilize to ensure that we
have a clear picture of how the economy affects Black,
Indigenous, People of Color, and other underrepresented
populations.
Q.14. An agency's budget reflects its values and goals. How do
you plan to allocate and sufficiently resource internal and
external efforts to advance DEI as part of CEA's annual budget
process? How will you ensure sufficient financial support for
the agency-specific diversity, equity, and inclusion strategic
plan to ensure you are able to meet the objectives established
under that plan in a reasonable time period?
A.14. I completely agree that an agency's budget reflects a
plan of action. Once at the CEA, it will be a priority of mine
to allocate resources in a way that advances our commitment to
DEI.
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RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR TOOMEY
FROM CECILIA E. ROUSE
Q.1. Increasing National Debt--The U.S. Government would have
to engage in significant borrowing to cover the cost of the
Biden administration's stimulus spending plan. The Nation's
debt already exceeds its annual output at 100.1 percent of
gross domestic product. What are the costs that can be
inflicted by rising national debt, and how much debt is too
much?
A.1. With COVID-19 raging, we must provide sufficient support
to households and businesses so they can survive this pandemic-
induced recession. We are still down more jobs than we were at
the peak of the Great Recession. The best thing we can do for
national debt at the moment is ensure that we have a strong
economy on the other side of this crisis. More generally,
borrowing--particularly with record low interest rates--and
making strategic investments in our future can help boost
growth and ensure it is more inclusive over the longrun.
Q.2. School Closures--You have focused much of your economic
research on education, and have published several studies on K-
12 education in particular. During the COVID-19 pandemic, we
have seen an increase in educational inequality, in large part
due to widespread persistent closures of public schools to in-
person learning despite substantial evidence that schools could
safely remain open. Long-term school lockdowns have reduced
students' learning time, and hence, worsened student
performance.
Do you believe that reopening schools for in-person
learning is urgently necessary for students?
A.2. Every student should have access to a high quality, safe
learning environment. Reopening schools safely will require
careful work, and I look forward to engaging productively in
conversations about how to ensure that all students have access
to the learning environments they need so that educational
inequality does not increase further.
Q.3. Should policy makers facilitate opportunities for parents
to send their children to schools offering in-person learning
while their local schools are closed?
A.3. We need to ensure that children are learning in safe
environments. I look forward to working with the Administration
on ensuring that students are able to get the education they
need while keeping themselves and their families safe.
Q.4. Unemployment Insurance--You have expressed concern for
those who have fallen through the social safety net,
particularly those who have experienced extended unemployment.
During your hearing you noted that today's unemployment
insurance system doesn't provide the safety net it used to,
arguing that it was designed for short-term unemployment, but
not the kind of longer-term unemployment that we may be seeing
with the Government-imposed shutdowns of the economy.
What changes do you think should be made to the UI system
that would result in these individuals returning to the labor
market?
A.4. We must design a UI system that works for everyone. One of
the most immediate changes we should make is to ensure the UI
system functions properly so that workers do not wait months to
receive checks to which they are entitled. I also strongly
support the President's focus on short-time compensation, a
program that has worked well in other countries, but that has
been underutilized in this country.
Q.5. What do you believe is an appropriate duration for
providing unemployment insurance benefits to an individual?
A.5. Long-term unemployment has been an increasing problem in
this country. It is also a particular problem in this pandemic
as certain industries have struggled, and will likely continue
to struggle, until the public health crisis is resolved. In a
typical recession, unemployment insurance is supposed to
support workers actively looking for work until they are able
to find another job; in this crisis, which is caused by a
pandemic, we need to help workers provide for themselves and
their families until the health crisis has been addressed and
job opportunities return. I look forward to working with
Congress on how we can best design the program to meet that
need.
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RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR WARREN
FROM CECILIA E. ROUSE
Q.1. Multiple experts have described the economic trajectory
resulting from the COVID-19 recession as ``K-shaped,'' meaning
that the recovery has occurred at an uneven pace for different
income levels.
Describe the long-term consequences of this K-shaped
recovery, particularly as it relates to the risk that millions
of Americans are becoming detached from the labor force. What
impact will this have on the productive capacity of our economy
in the future?
A.1. The K-shaped recovery reflects that millions of Americans
are currently suffering. Around 24 million adults say their
household sometimes or often didn't have enough to eat in the
last 7 days, which impacts between 9 and 12 million children.
One in five adult renters are behind on rent. Women are
dropping out of the labor force partly because of increased
domestic burdens. We know that economic insecurity, hunger,
rent insecurity, and labor force detachment all have long-term
impacts not just for workers and their families, but our
economy overall. It is too soon to know the long-term economic
implications of the pandemic, but if we do not find a way to
include all productive workers in our recovery, we will not be
fully utilizing all of the talent we have in this country to
get us back on a path of robust economic growth.
Q.2. How will you measure the success of our recovery going
forward?
A.2. Too often we measure the success of our economy in average
outcomes or headline numbers. We need to look at how outcomes
vary for different types of workers, households, and geographic
areas (among others) as well.
Q.3. What structural changes do you believe should be made to
our economic system to ensure equitable recoveries in future
recessions?
A.3. Our frayed safety net means that millions of people were
suffering economically even before the pandemic-induced
recession. One change we should consider is making more of our
safety net ``automatic'' in the sense that programs (such as
extended/enhanced UI) dial on during times of recession and
dial off as the economy recovers. In addition, we need to make
sure our economy works for everyone by increasing the
availability of fulfilling jobs and ensuring that no one falls
through the cracks.
Q.4. Do you believe the current structure of our financial
system has contributed to economic inequality?
A.4. As a member of President Obama's Council of Economic
Advisers, I saw what can happen when our financial system
fails. Good financial regulations level the playing field while
supporting a forward-looking economy. A well-functioning and
well-regulated financial system is an integral part of a market
economy. We need financial regulations that ensure that
problems on Wall street do not become problems for Main Street.
Q.5. If so, what are some ways that financial regulation can be
used to address these inequalities?
A.5. I want to be mindful of the independence of our financial
regulators. But I share the goals of addressing economic
inequality and ensuring that our economic system is working for
everyone, not just those at the top of the income ladder. If
confirmed, I would look forward to working with you on these
issues, which are priorities for this Administration.
Q.6. Millions of Americans lack access to traditional financial
service products. What options should policymakers explore to
foster a more inclusive banking system?
A.6. This year we have seen how lack of access to traditional
financial service products can hurt families, and also how it
can make it harder for the Federal Government to get aid to
them in times of need. I look forward to engaging on the
barriers to accessing traditional financial service products if
confirmed as Chair.
Q.7. What do you believe are the greatest risks to financial
stability?
A.7. Increased inequality and an uneven playing field create an
environment in which economic risks can emerge that threaten
our entire economy. One way to ensure that we leave the
pandemic behind with a stable financial system is to support
the Federal Reserve in its efforts to protect the vital sources
of credit that allow small businesses and local governments to
pay their day-to-day bills.
Q.8. How do you view the problem of ``Too Big To Fail'' and the
risks posed by consolidation in the banking industry?
A.8. As a member of President Obama's Council of Economic
Advisers during the financial crisis, I saw the U.S. economy
come close to ruin following the failures and near-failures of
large, interconnected bank holding companies and nonbank
financial companies. It is important that we do not allow such
risks to emerge in our financial system again.
Q.9. More than half of hourly workers get their schedules with
less than a week's notice, making it hard for workers to figure
out child care, go back to school, or have some financial
security. Would addressing unstable, unpredictable, and rigid
scheduling practices--especially for low-wage workers--benefit
workers and families?
A.9. We have seen increasing evidence in recent years of the
difficulties that unpredictable schedules cause for workers and
families. In particular, when companies impose erratic
schedules, it can make it hard for workers to get ahead while
also taking care of themselves and their families. If
confirmed, I look forward to working with you on this important
issue.
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RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF
SENATOR VAN HOLLEN FROM CECILIA E. ROUSE
Q.1. There are now 4 million long-term unemployed workers, and
long-term unemployment increased more in October of 2020 than
in any other month on record. The longer someone is unemployed,
the harder it is for them to ever find a job, and the lower
their wages will be if they do find a job. Long-term
unemployment is devastating to workers and their families, and
it causes permanent scarring on our entire economy if these
workers drop out of the workforce permanently.
You have been a leader in recognizing the terrible costs of
long-term unemployment for both jobless workers and the overall
economy. Austan Goolsbee, who chaired President Obama's Council
of Economic Advisers, said you were, ``way ahead of everyone on
the issues of the longterm unemployed.''
As you know, long-term unemployment was a chronic problem
for our economy even before the pandemic, which is why I
introduced the Long-Term Unemployment Elimination Act. The bill
would create good-paying, year-long jobs for long-term
unemployed workers, and fund training and supportive services
to address the barriers keeping people out of the workforce.
When the pandemic made long-term unemployment an even more
urgent crisis, I joined forces with other Senators who have
also been leading the charge to create jobs for disadvantaged
workers--Senators Ron Wyden, Tammy Baldwin, Michael Bennet, and
Cory Booker--to introduce the Jobs for Economic Recovery Act.
This bill combines our ideas and includes provisions to respond
to the specific nature of the pandemic, when health and safety
are of paramount importance.
Dr. Rouse, we have already had very productive
conversations about the subject of long-term unemployment. As
chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, will you continue
working with us on a plan to ensure that these 4 million long-
term unemployed workers are able to get jobs as part of our
effort to not only help the economy recover, but to build back
better than we were before?
A.1. I very much look forward to working with you on the issue
of long-term unemployment. As you note, I have been concerned
for a long time about the long-term unemployed and scarring.
Creating good jobs that pay well has to be a priority as has
building a system for workers who cannot secure a good job.
Additional Material Supplied for the Record
LETTERS SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF NOMINEE MARCIA L. FUDGE
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LETTERS SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF NOMINEE CECILIA E. ROUSE
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