    [Senate Hearing 117-3]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                               S. Hrg. 117-3

                       NOMINATIONS OF MARCIA L. FUDGE AND
                                CECILIA E. ROUSE

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                       BANKING,HOUSING,AND URBAN AFFAIRS
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                       ON

                                NOMINATIONS OF:

     MARCIA L. FUDGE, OF OHIO, TO BE SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND
                               URBAN DEVELOPMENT

                                   __________

       CECILIA E. ROUSE, OF NEW JERSEY, TO BE CHAIR, COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC
                                    ADVISERS

                                   __________

                                JANUARY 28, 2021

                                   __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                    Available at: https: //www.govinfo.gov /

                                ______

                  U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
     43-929               WASHINGTON : 2021

                COMMITTEE ON BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS

                          MIKE CRAPO, Idaho, Chairman

    RICHARD C. SHELBY, Alabama           SHERROD BROWN, Ohio
    PATRICK J. TOOMEY, Pennsylvania      JACK REED, Rhode Island
    TIM SCOTT, South Carolina            ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey
    BEN SASSE, Nebraska                  JON TESTER, Montana
    TOM COTTON, Arkansas                 MARK R. WARNER, Virginia
    MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota            ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts
    DAVID PERDUE, Georgia                BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii
    THOM TILLIS, North Carolina          CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland
    JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana              CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
    MARTHA McSALLY, Arizona              DOUG JONES, Alabama
    JERRY MORAN, Kansas                  TINA SMITH, Minnesota
    KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota           KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona

                         Gregg Richard, Staff Director

                    Laura Swanson, Democratic Staff Director

                              Matt Jones, Counsel

                     Elisha Tuku, Democratic Chief Counsel

               Beth Cooper, Democratic Professional Staff Member

               Megan Cheney, Democratic Professional Staff Member

                          Cameron Ricker, Chief Clerk

                          Shelvin Simmons, IT Director

                        Charles J. Moffat, Hearing Clerk

                              Jim Crowell, Editor

                                      (ii)

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                           THURSDAY, JANUARY 28, 2021

                                                                       Page

    Opening statement of Senator Toomey..............................     1

    Opening statements, comments, or prepared statements of:
        Senator Brown................................................     4
            Prepared statement.......................................    42

                                   WITNESSES

    Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio....................................     7
    Senator Rob Portman of Ohio......................................     8
    Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey............................    10
    Senator Cory A. Booker of New Jersey.............................    11

                                    NOMINEES

    Marcia L. Fudge, of Ohio, to be Secretary, Department of Housing
      and Urban Development..........................................    13
        Prepared statement...........................................    43
        Biographical sketch of nominee...............................    45
        Responses to written questions of:
            Chairman Crapo...........................................    96
            Senator Brown............................................    96
            Senator Toomey...........................................   102
            Senator Cotton...........................................   115
            Senator Kennedy..........................................   115
            Senator Menendez.........................................   116
            Senator Warren...........................................   118
            Senator Smith............................................   120
            Senator Sinema...........................................   121
    Cecilia E. Rouse, of New Jersey, to be Chair, Council of Economic
      Advisers.......................................................    15
        Prepared statement...........................................    83
        Biographical sketch of nominee...............................    84
        Responses to written questions of:
            Senator Brown............................................   123
            Senator Toomey...........................................   126
            Senator Warren...........................................   127
            Senator Van Hollen.......................................   129

                  Additional Material Supplied for the Record

    Letters submitted in support of Nominee Marcia L. Fudge..........   130
    Letters submitted in support of Nominee Cecilia E. Rouse.........   146

                                     (iii)

              NOMINATIONS OF MARCIA L. FUDGE AND CECILIA E. ROUSE

                                  ----------

                           THURSDAY, JANUARY 28, 2021

                                           U.S. Senate,
              Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met at 10 a.m., via Webex, Hon. Patrick J.
    Toomey, presiding.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PATRICK J. TOOMEY

        Senator Toomey. Good morning. This hearing on the
    nominations of Congresswoman Marcia Fudge for HUD Secretary and
    Dean Cecilia Rouse for Chair of the Council of Economic
    Advisers will come to order.
        Before I begin with an opening statement, there are a few
    housekeeping items I would like to go through.
        First, this hearing is, of course, being held remotely. A
    few videoconference reminders: Once you start speaking, there
    will be a slight delay before you are displayed on the screen.
    To minimize background noise, please click the mute button
    until it is your turn to speak or ask questions. If there is a
    technology issue, we will move to the next Senator until that
    issue is resolved.
        I would like to remind all Senators and our witnesses that
    the 5-minute clock still applies. You should all have one box
    on your screens labeled ``Clock'' that will show you how much
    time is remaining. At 30 seconds remaining, you should hear a
    bell that will remind Senators that their time has almost
    expired.
        To simplify the speaking order process, Senator Brown and I
    have again agreed to go by seniority for this hearing. After
    Senator Brown and I give opening statements, we will hear brief
    introductions of our witnesses from Senators Brown and Portman
    and Senators Menendez and Booker. We will then proceed to
    testimony.
        I will recognize myself for my opening comments and observe
    that it appears that I am Chairman for the morning or so. Maybe
    it will be for a full day. That is to be seen. But I want to
    thank Chairman Crapo for his service. I think he is not with us
    at the moment, but I want to thank him for his leadership of
    this Committee. In my view, Senator Crapo set a terrific
    example for all of us, an example of how to engage in civil
    debate and treat each other with respect. I think Senator Crapo
    has a lot of work that he can be proud of during his tenure as
    Chairman, the work he did on the CARES Act in particular, as
    the economy was in dire straits last March, to the bipartisan
    S. 2155, the Economic Growth, Regulatory Relief, and Consumer
    Protection Act. And I want to thank Chairman Crapo, and I think
    I speak for many Members of the Committee in saying that we are
    looking forward to his work as the Ranking Member of the
    Finance Committee.
        I also want to say a quick word expressing my appreciation
    to Senator Brown. We find ourselves, of course, in this
    somewhat awkward position where we have an even split in the
    Senate, and we at the moment have this split on the Committee
    itself. As I mentioned, I am fully aware that very, very soon
    Senator Brown will be the Chairman of the Committee.
        I would like to point out I feel like we have made the best
    of the circumstances we are in. We have made progress on the
    process by which we vet nominees. We have made progress on
    processing the nominations themselves. We have made progress on
    the budgeting for the Committee and how we will allocate
    resources. So I appreciate that.
        And I appreciate the fact that in the past Senator Brown
    and I have had a constructive working relationship, whether it
    is working on things like the opioid crisis, the threat of
    Asian carps to the Great Lakes that we share, and a number of
    national security threats as well. So I am looking forward to
    continuing to work with Senator Brown in what will soon be his
    new role.
        And as for my opening statement, let me first begin by
    thanking both nominees for their appearance today, more
    importantly for their willingness to serve. Dean Cecilia Rouse
    has had a distinguished career in academia and Government. She
    is very well qualified for the post to which she has been
    nominated. She has a wealth of expertise in economic research
    and policy and previous experience on the Council of Economic
    Advisers. She has multiple degrees from Harvard University and
    is the current dean at the Princeton School of Public
    International Affairs and many, many awards and achievements
    throughout her distinguished career.
        I will say I am particularly pleased and I admire her
    advocacy for freedom of speech and diversity of points of view.
    I think that is an important principle. In 2017, Dr. Rouse
    wrote, and I quote, ``I strongly believe, however, that
    diversity cannot be viewed solely along demographic lines.
    While we do not always think of diversity in terms of thought
    or political orientation, we should. It is critical that in our
    classrooms, boardrooms, and halls of Government people who have
    different ideological viewpoints interact and work together to
    debate the important issues of our day.''
        I think that is a very constructive and much needed
    sentiment, especially on college campuses.
        Now, in the spirit of that quote, I want to recognize that
    I think I am going to disagree with Dr. Rouse far more often
    than I agree with respect to individual policy prescriptions.
    But I think she is someone that I can work with. I hope that if
    she is confirmed, she will bring a thoughtful, reasoned
    perspective and, in particular, a willingness to underscore
    that most policies have intended and unintended consequences.
    There are costs as well as benefits, and the entirety of the
    likely outcome should be evaluated.
        Congresswoman Fudge, I want to thank you for your long
    career in public service and your commitment to community. I
    appreciated and enjoyed our conversation on Tuesday. But in
    light of President Biden's repeated calls for unity and pledges
    to keep ad hominem personal attacks out of political discourse,
    I do think it is important we look at some of your past
    rhetoric, just as we should for all nominees before this
    Committee, to understand whether your rhetoric matches
    President Biden's call for ``bringing Americans together.''
        I will say I am particularly troubled by a number of
    statements that you have made, Representative Fudge, attacking
    and disparaging the integrity and motives of Republican
    officials with whom you have policy disagreements. A few short
    months ago, in September of 2020, you slammed Senate Republican
    efforts to fill the late Justice Ginsburg's seat, and you said,
    and I quote, ``Those who are bent on choosing her successor
    have no decency, they have no honor, they have no integrity.''
    And you went to say, and I quote, ``They are a disgrace to this
    Nation.''
        So, Congresswoman, it is one thing to have strongly held
    views and disagreements, but I am troubled by this and several
    other statements, because in my mind they raise questions about
    your willingness and ability to work with Republicans if this
    is your opinion of Republicans.
        Now, one such category of areas where we need to be able to
    work together is how you as HUD Secretary will implement
    housing policies that affect millions of Americans. I hope to
    learn this morning more about how you will address HUD's
    regulations on affirmatively furthering fair housing, or AFFH.
    I hope you will avoid returning to the costly Obama era rule
    that forced cities to hire expensive consultants and complete
    lengthy plans that could stretch as long as 800 pages. In my
    view, now is not the time to impose new, unfunded mandates on
    these communities which will inevitably drain resources that
    could be used to support affordable housing and other
    priorities.
        I also believe that it is local communities that should be
    in the driver's seat making decisions for their communities
    rather than Washington. I also want to learn how you will
    address HUD's disparate impact regulations. Under the Obama era
    disparate impact rule, it seemed that often defendants were
    guilty until proven innocent, and this turned some housing
    providers away from providing affordable housing because of the
    risk of protracted litigation.
        I hope that any new rule that comes from HUD allows claims
    of discrimination to proceed when they are legitimate and frees
    housing providers to focus on their mission. It is also
    important that any such new rule be consistent with the Supreme
    Court decision in Inclusive Communities.
        Finally, let me just make clear how I think about an
    important issue that we are going to be wrestling with in
    Congress--and it is the jurisdiction of this Committee--and
    that is the question of whether there should be a longer
    eviction moratorium in light of and in the context of the
    assistance that has already been provided.
        As a brief reminder, last year we were in a full-blown
    financial crisis, a full-blown economic crisis, and we
    appropriated several trillion--everybody on this Committee
    voted in favor, everyone, I think, in the Senate, voted in
    favor of several trillion dollars to replace lost income for
    millions of individuals and businesses. In March, Congress
    authorized literally hundreds of billions of dollars in direct
    assistance to individuals in the form of stimulus checks,
    increased food stamps, extending unemployment eligibility,
    enhanced unemployment benefits. We all voted for that. And just
    last month, we did it all over again. Signs are now pointing
    toward a robust recovery that is underway. It is not complete,
    but it is underway. The economy grew at 33 percent in the third
    quarter. Household balance sheets are extremely strong, the
    personal savings rate it at an all-time record high, and
    unemployment has dramatically improved from a peak of almost 15
    percent to below 7 percent now.
        Just a few weeks ago, we passed another $900 billion bill,
    and included in that, Congress made $25 billion available
    exclusively for emergency rental assistance, and that money has
    not yet been fully distributed yet. And now we are being told
    that we need to do even more right away. My view is if after
    all of this historic spending there are people who have fallen
    through the cracks, people who have not gotten the assistance
    they need, then by all means let us have a conversation about
    those folks who are in those circumstances. But I think
    anything we do now should be narrowly targeted to the people
    who actually need the help rather than universal spending
    programs that inevitably will spend a huge amount of money on
    people who never experienced any economic hardship.
        I look forward to the testimony of each of our witnesses,
    and at this time I recognize Senator Brown for his opening
    statement.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SHERROD BROWN

        Senator Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is an honor to
    be here and it is a thrill to be here with my friend
    Congresswoman Marcia Fudge. And, Dr. Rouse, thank you for
    joining us, too. Dr. Rouse and I have talked numerous times
    but, as is the case with so many, now have not yet talked face
    to face, and I look forward to that.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your words about the work on
    this Committee. I would echo your comments about Mike Crapo,
    working with him on a number of issues. While I, of course,
    disagree with him on most major issues, we were able to work
    together in this Committee and did make a number of good things
    happen. So thank you, and our discussions and relationship
    during this transition, the work that you and I did, Mr.
    Chairman, on the CARES Act that essentially kept 12 million
    people out of poverty until the unemployment benefits and
    others began to fall away in the summer--and we should have
    moved faster. That was a point of disagreement, obviously, with
    the Chairman and me, but working together on that made a huge
    difference. So thank you, and we will continue that in our new
    relationship in the next couple of years.
        We consider the nominations today of two distinguished
    public servants, my Congresswoman, Marcia Fudge--Connie and I
    live in the city of Cleveland in her district--to lead the
    Department of Housing and Urban Development, and Dr. Cecilia
    Rouse to lead the Council of Economic Advisers.
        Most of us have met with them, remotely in most cases. We
    are impressed with their knowledge, we are impressed with their
    commitment, and we are impressed with their passion to serve,
    especially during the current public health and economic
    crisis. Thank you, Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse, for that.
        Our economy is at a crossroads. COVID-19 infections are up.
    New unemployment claims continue to rise. Millions of families
    are behind on their bills--on rent, on utilities, on mortgage
    payments.
        The Chairman is right that there was good economic growth
    in the third quarter, but the fourth quarter does not look so
    good. This recovery is clearly off track. Much more needs to be
    done. The new Secretary of the Treasury--former Chair of the
    Federal Reserve--and the sitting Chair of the Federal Reserve,
    who was known, not particularly now, but known as a Republican
    when he was nominated, both believe that we need to do more
    and, pardon the cliche, not put our foot on the brake.
        We face a choice: Will we finally marshal all of our
    country's vast resources and talent to meet this moment? Will
    we help the families that desperately need it? There are so
    many of them in every one of our States. Will we help our
    struggling small businesses survive? Will we work together to
    get Americans vaccinated, back to school, back to work, and
    back to seeing their grandparents and grandchildren?
        Or will we sit back and watch as millions of Americans face
    the ever-growing threat of eviction in the middle of a
    pandemic, in the middle of winter, as people drain meager
    savings accounts or head to payday lenders, as job losses
    become permanent, and as racial and economic inequality get
    worse?
        President Biden nominated Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse
    to positions that will be essential to determining which path
    we take, during this pandemic and in the years ahead.
        I can think of no one better to lead us out of this
    pandemic and into the future than the two women before us
    today.
        After a year when Black Americans have endured so many
    painful reminders of the yawning gap between the promise of our
    founding ideals and our failure to make that promise real for
    everyone, two Black women will take leading roles in our
    economic recovery.
        This matters on so many levels. It matters for our future
    that little girls, including Black and Brown girls, see
    themselves in our leaders, from the Vice President to our two
    economic leaders sitting in front of this Committee.
        It matters because of the perspectives and the life
    experiences these two women--these two Black women--bring to
    these jobs.
        They both have ties to Ohio: one a daughter of Cleveland--I
    would add her mother is sitting with her; Marcia is
    broadcasting, or whatever verb we use, from Cuyahoga Community
    College with her family behind her. She will, of course, get
    the honor of introducing her, but I have seen her mother, an
    activist herself, who brought up Marcia to be the activist. I
    have seen her around the community. Marcia will, of course,
    introduce all of them in a moment. The other, Dr. Rouse, with
    roots deep into the Mahoning Valley and Youngstown, Ohio.
        Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse bring a real
    understanding of the people who make this country work--all
    people who make this country work--to these jobs.
        If confirmed, Congresswoman Fudge will lead an agency that
    supports families and communities, that provides housing and
    safety to people experiencing homelessness from this pandemic--
    we were just talking offline at the beginning about how
    important this is, especially for homeless veterans. It will
    help communities rebuild.
        Today HUD is grappling with a housing market where millions
    of families find it harder and harder to afford a decent home.
    The cost of housing is up, wages are flat, and so many workers
    have trouble making rent every month without crippling stress,
    or they turn to predatory loans. And the dream of home
    ownership is increasingly out of reach and, with increasing
    vigor, racial divides.
        None of this started with COVID-19. The affordable housing
    crisis is the product of decades of conscious policy
    decisions--by both Government and corporations. This pandemic
    has exposed what millions of families in this country already
    knew: that too many people are struggling to get by.
        Before the United States had our first case of COVID-19,
    before that, a quarter of all renters in this country were
    already paying more than half their income for housing. The
    Black home ownership rate was nearly as low as it was in 1968
    when housing discrimination was legal, and when our colleague
    Senator Romney's father was appointed Secretary, was nominated
    Secretary of HUD. HUD should play an essential role in fixing
    that--in expanding opportunity for every Zip code, and allowing
    more families to have the peace of mind and the economic
    security of a safe home they can afford.
        Congresswoman Fudge will work to help protect our kids from
    lead poisoning--still a problem in Cleveland and in Appalachia,
    Ohio--to restore the promise of fair housing, and to give
    communities the help and resources they need.
        All of this is a tall order. It is one she is poised to
    meet. She brings to the job the unique and critical experiences
    of serving as mayor for the kind of community that is either
    overlooked or outright preyed upon by Wall Street and big
    investors.
        We cannot write off entire swaths of the country--whether
    it is a coal town or a historic industrial city, whether it is
    farm country or whether it is an urban neighborhood. This
    champion of Cleveland understands that.
        The Council of Economic Advisers will also play an integral
    role both in helping our economy recover and in building a
    better system out of this pandemic. Dr. Rouse is exactly who we
    need at the helm. If confirmed, she will help direct our
    Nation's economic policy to put Americans back to work,
    fighting for better jobs with higher wages.
        Millions of Americans are still out of work. Those job
    losses have disproportionately fallen on low-income workers,
    Black and Brown workers, and women. At the same time, essential
    workers are risking their health to go to work. Corporations
    still refuse to pay so many of them a living wage.
        It is all part of the corporate business model that treats
    American workers as expendable instead of essential, as we call
    them, to this country's success. For decades, workers' wages
    have remained stagnant while CEO pay has skyrocketed.
        ``Building Back Better'' means taking on that system and
    creating an economy with a growing, thriving middle class.
        It will not be the first time Dr. Rouse has helped us
    weather a crisis. She served on the Council of Economic
    Advisers a dozen years ago, during the Great Recession.
        Dr. Rouse has spent her career focusing on workers and
    ensuring that this economy works for everyone. Her experience
    and leadership will guide this Administration and Congress in
    formulating the policies that help revive our economy so that
    it works for all Americans.
        And Dr. Rouse and Congresswoman Fudge will look at how we
    can protect families from climate change while seizing
    opportunities to create new jobs, to advance environmental
    justice, and to grow new industries. Making our homes and
    communities more energy efficient is not just necessary for our
    future; it is the kind of investment that will put people back
    to work at jobs that cannot be outsourced.
        We face great challenges. These are extraordinary times.
        I look forward to hearing how each of you will help chart
    the course out of this pandemic and build a brighter future in
    the years ahead.
        Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent to submit a number of
    letters to the record in support of these two nominees.
        Senator Toomey. Without objection.
        Senator Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you.
        So at this time, our colleagues from Ohio and New Jersey
    have indicated they would like to introduce the nominees from
    their home States. Senator Brown, as the senior Senator from
    Ohio, did you have anything you wanted to add by way of
    introduction to Congresswoman Fudge?

               STATEMENT OF SENATOR SHERROD BROWN OF OHIO

        Senator Brown. Yes, just a couple of words. Then I will
    turn to my colleague Senator Portman for sure.
        I have said much about Marcia already. I mentioned her
    mother here, and she is calling in. She is with us from our
    great community college, I believe the downtown campus,
    although I do not know which campus she is on, of Tri-C. She is
    a proud daughter of Ohio. She was born in Cleveland. She grew
    up in our State. She graduated from the Ohio State University
    in Cleveland, Marshall College of Law, a long and distinguished
    career in public service. She was in the Cuyahoga County
    Prosecutor's Office, chief of staff to our trailblazing friend
    Stephanie Tubbs Jones, mayor of Warrensville Heights. I
    remember still the long meeting I had in her office back in, I
    believe, 2005. She served as national president of the Delta
    Sigma Theta sorority. Senator Portman and I have been to a
    number of Delta reunions with the redcoats in the basement of
    Rayburn. Thank you for that.
        She has been a leader in Congress. As past Chair of the
    Congressional Black Caucus, we know her outspokenness on civil
    rights, on women's rights, on human rights. She saw up close
    how lenders preyed on families. Everyone in this Committee has
    heard me talk about my Zip code, 44105, more foreclosures there
    in the first half of 2007 than anywhere in the country. She was
    serving as mayor then, probably 7 or 8 miles from there in
    Warrensville Heights. She represents my Zip code and those
    communities in the Congress now. She has dedicated her career
    fighting for these families and the communities they live in. I
    am excited to work with her as the future Chair of the Banking
    and Housing
        Committee on housing issues.
        It is my pleasure to introduce Marcia Fudge and turn it to
    my friend Senator Portman.
        Senator Toomey. Senator Portman, you are recognized to make
    your comments.

                STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROB PORTMAN OF OHIO

        Senator Portman. Thank you, Chairman Toomey and Chairman-
    to-be Brown and Senator Crapo and others who might be here from
    the Committee. I appreciate the opportunity to introduce a
    friend of mine. Before I do, I want to tell her that I think it
    is great she is at an amazing community college, Tri-C. I hope
    Dr. Johnson is taking good care of you. And I understand that
    Mrs. Miriam Safford is with you, who is a distinguished public
    servant in her own way, although not in elected office, and
    happens to be the 89-year-old mother of yours. Is that correct?
    Yes, well, congratulations to you and to your family for this
    nomination.
        I am here just to say that I am proud that you are choosing
    to step up. You are a friend of mine. We have worked together.
    You do have a distinguished career, and you have worked on
    housing policy issues throughout your entire public policy
    career. You graduated from Ohio State, earned a law degree from
    Cleveland State. You were Cuyahoga County prosecutor, assistant
    prosecutor. You were the first African-American and first
    female mayor of Warrensville Heights, and there you worked on
    housing issues. I am told that affordable housing was one of
    your policy objectives there, and you were successful in
    expanding that.
        Since being elected to the House of Representatives in
    2008, succeeding another friend of mine who was, you know, a
    very successful Member of Congress who was able to work on both
    sides of the aisle, Stephanie Tubbs Jones, you have gone on to
    serve the people of Cleveland in the 11th District with a
    substantial and impressive work ethic, as I have seen certainly
    compassion for your constituents, many of whom live in
    communities where there is not good access to housing or jobs
    and where poverty is an issue.
        My experience and that of respected members of the
    Cleveland community who I know well is that you have worked
    collaboratively to tackle these challenges, working across
    party lines, including even with your Republican Senator now
    and again and with the business community, to help your
    constituents.
        Of course, you also chaired the Congressional Black Caucus,
    and they made you Chair because they recognized your leadership
    capabilities.
        In our time in Congress together, we have worked on a
    number of things that are bicameral and bipartisan, including
    teaming up to increase college access for low-income students
    through our Go to High School, Go to College Act, which
    incentivizes students to earn college credits in high school
    through the Pell grant program.
        In 2014, after a HUD rule that I thought was a bureaucratic
    rule that did not make much sense, cutoff some Cleveland area
    families from critical housing and social services, your office
    and my office and you and I worked together to ensure that HUD
    worked with Cuyahoga County, and with City Mission in
    particular in Cleveland, so that struggling residents could
    continue to have access to those vital services. And we were
    successful in working with HUD on that, so I know you have had
    experiences working with the HUD bureaucracy.
        During this health care and economic crisis, she has
    continued to be a leader in fighting for housing security by
    cosponsoring amendments to the bipartisan CARES Act that
    ensured those affected by the pandemic were not unfairly
    evicted from their homes or foreclosed on due to missed rent or
    mortgage payments.
        Just as important as her experience, in my view, is who she
    is as a person. I do not always agree with Marcia on policy;
    she certainly does not always agree with me. But I can speak to
    her integrity, her commitment to justice, and the strength of
    her character. I think she has got a public servant's heart. I
    think she is in it for the right reasons. And, again, I am
    encouraged that she is willing to step up to take on this new
    responsibility, which is not always easy in these times.
        As head of the Department of Housing and Urban Development,
    she will have an important job of leading efforts to ensure
    affordable quality housing is within reach of all Americans.
    This is something we all hope for. It is critical as our Nation
    continues to face the housing crisis, compounded by the health
    care and economic crises caused by COVID-19.
        I noticed this morning there was a new report on economic
    growth. Fourth quarter growth was substantial, over 4 percent.
    That does not mean that housing became any more affordable. In
    a way, I think, as we begin to come out of this pandemic, we
    are going to get back, as we start to grow the economy again,
    which all of us hope for and I believe will happen, into the
    same issue we have been in, which is a lack of affordable
    housing in my State of Ohio and around the country. So I know
    Representative Fudge shares that concern and will be focused on
    that.
        I know she also shares this Committee's commitment to
    addressing the eviction crisis we have got right now and how do
    you deal with that in the middle of a pandemic. It is a tough
    issue, and, you know, you want to be sure that landlords,
    particularly our small landlords around the State of Ohio and
    elsewhere, are not left without the resources that they need to
    be able to be successful, but also we need to be sure we are
    dealing with the reality of people not being able to pay rent
    in some cases and avoiding those evictions, which cause so much
    pain and inefficiency in our system.
        So, Mr. Chairman, thank you for allowing me the privilege
    of introducing Representative Fudge. I look forward to hearing
    from her this morning and then the opportunity to vote for her
    on the U.S. Senate floor.
        Thank you.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Portman.
        Senator Menendez, you are recognized to introduce Dean
    Rouse.

                STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROBERT MENENDEZ OF
                               NEW JERSEY

        Senator Menendez. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and as a
    senior Member of the Committee, I look forward to working with
    you and incoming Chairman Brown on an important set of agendas
    that I know the Committee will be pursuing.
        Today it is a sincere honor to introduce Dr. Cecilia Elena
    Rouse as President Biden's nominee for the Chair of the
    Presidential Council of Economic Advisers.
        Now, this is not the first time I have introduced Dr. Rouse
    to this Committee. I had the same honor back in 2009 when
    President Bush nominated her to the Council of Economic
    Advisers during the height of the Great Recession. And as a
    member of the Council, Dr. Rouse helped devise strategies to
    strengthen our labor market and steer our country out of what
    at the time was known as and we realized was the worst economic
    crisis since the Great Depression.
        Now she is once again being called on by a President to
    serve our Nation in an hour of even greater peril and
    uncertainty, this time as Chair. When she is confirmed, Dr.
    Rouse will be the first African-American woman to chair the
    President's Council of Economic Advisers.
        Yet, aside from the historic nature of her nomination, Dr.
    Rouse's experience in both the Obama and Clinton
    administrations, as well as her academic expertise, make her
    eminently qualified for this role.
        As you pointed out, she currently serves as the dean of the
    Princeton School of Public and International Affairs at
    Princeton University, one of New Jersey's most prestigious and
    nationally renowned institutions. Her primary research and
    teaching interests are in labor economics, with a particular
    focus on the economics of education. Indeed, Dr. Rouse has
    often said that she first became interested in economics as a
    tool to expand opportunity and create positive social change.
        She has studied the economic benefits of community college
    attendance, the effect of financial aid on college
    matriculation, and the impact of student loan debt on graduates
    entering the job market. She is also a strong advocate for
    reducing racial wealth inequality, an important priority as we
    grapple with a pandemic that has disproportionately devastated
    minority communities.
        Dr. Rouse is also a senior editor of The Future of Children
    and has served as an editor of the Journal of Labor Economics.
    Additionally, she is the founding director of the Princeton
    University Education Research Section and former director of
    the Industrial Relations Section.
        I believe Dr. Rouse has the right experience and insight to
    help chart a path for our country out of this crisis and toward
    a brighter, more equitable, and more prosperous future for all
    Americans. And I certainly will be urging my colleagues, both
    on the Committee and in the Senate, to support her swift
    confirmation as Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, and
    I look forward to working with her to get our economy back on
    track and bring much needed change and equity to our Nation.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Menendez.
        Senator Booker, you are recognized to introduce Dean Rouse.

           STATEMENT OF SENATOR CORY A. BOOKER OF NEW JERSEY

        Senator Booker. Chairman, I am grateful to you and Senator
    Brown as well for your leadership and for allowing me these
    moments of introduction for Dr. Rouse.
        If I may tread upon your grace, it is very hard for me to
    see Martha Fudge sitting before you without putting on the
    record just a touch of truth about her. I have been in the
    Senate for 7 years, and it is not an overstatement to say that
    one of my most invaluable colleagues and friends in that 7
    years is Martha Fudge. She is an extraordinary woman who has a
    deep kindness in her soul, and many of us who know her, she has
    been a big sister, she has been a mentor, and that is most
    certainly true in my life. I know she, like me, is a former
    mayor. As a mayor, you get the skill of finding ways to bring
    people together to create common ground. I saw those skills on
    display when she was the Chairwoman of the Congressional Black
    Caucus, which is a very diverse group, but also her ability
    from that position to work across the aisle, find common
    ground, and get things done.
        And so I know this Committee will deal a lot with her
    should she be confirmed, and I think as was said by Senator
    Portman, you will find in her a goodness, a decency, and, God
    willing, a friendship that I hope this Committee on both sides
    of the aisle will recognize that it could be for you, as it has
    been for me, one of the most valuable relationships I have.
        The only warning I will give about her is do not try to
    serve her vegan food like I did. That is the only time I have
    seen her have harsh language to me.
        And now I would like to have the honor of just saying
    quickly some remarks about Dr. Rouse, who is President Biden's
    nominee for the Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers. What
    a privilege it is to be able to affirm what has already been
    said by my senior Senator, Senator Menendez. If confirmed, Dr.
    Rouse will be tasked with an enormous challenge of helping to
    craft and guide our Nation's economic policy at a time of
    unprecedented economic crisis.
        Across this country, this Committee knows, tens of millions
    of Americans have lost their jobs. Millions of our countrymen
    and women in this wealthy Nation have been pushed into poverty,
    food insecurity, with women especially suffering and challenges
    being seen among people of color and women of color in
    particular. The impact of this economic crisis has been savage
    and unequal and has compounded a lot of the realities that were
    already grievous in our country--systemic inequality, historic
    disinvestment in Black and Brown communities like the one I
    live in.
        The Washington Post reported it most succinctly, and they
    said that the COVID-19 recession is the most unequal in modern
    U.S. history. The economic crisis and the resultant attendant
    health crisis created by this pandemic have made clear how
    interconnected the challenges are that we face. These crises
    have also made clear how necessary it is for bold action and
    bold leadership. We must have people with the kind of
    competency, qualifications, and commitment that Dr. Rouse has.
        If confirmed, I strongly believe that Dr. Rouse will offer
    the kind of leadership, vision, and action needed to enact an
    economic agenda that really prioritizes working families, that
    rebuilds our economy in an inclusive way, and addresses
    systemic barriers that have driven what is a real threat to our
    society as we know it, which is the wealth and economic
    inequalities that have grown worse over my lifetime. I do not
    just say this because Senator Menendez, as he noted, that Dr.
    Rouse is a proud New Jerseyan, dean of the School of Public and
    International Affairs at Princeton University; but Dr. Rouse is
    just renowned in her field. She is a well-known and celebrated
    labor economist, a leader in academia and in the study of the
    economic impact of diversity and inclusion, and knowing that
    these are elements that are not nice to talk about but actually
    add to the economic strength of organizations in our country,
    public and private alike.
        She is a public servant who has served as a member of the
    Council of Economic Advisers in the Obama-Biden administration
    and on the National Economic Council in the Clinton
    administration as Special Assistant to President Clinton. If
    confirmed, Dr. Rouse will serve as the first African-American
    and fourth woman to lead the Council of Economic Advisers since
    its establishment 74 years ago. If the Committee moves her
    forward, it will be historic in that sense. She will not just
    make history if confirmed, though. I am confident she will help
    to shape a future that is more resonant with our common values
    as a people, that she will be a force to making our Nation bend
    the arc of that moral universe more toward liberty and justice
    for all.
        I urge my colleagues to swiftly confirm Dr. Rouse's
    nomination. Thank you for this time.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Booker.
        I will now swear in the nominees. Because of the remote
    format of today's hearing, I will swear in each nominee
    individually.
        Congresswoman Fudge, will you please rise and raise your
    right hand? Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you
    are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
    but the truth, so help you God?
        Ms. Fudge. I do.
        Senator Toomey. Do you agree to appear and testify before
    any duly constituted committee of the Senate? Congresswoman
    Fudge, can you hear me? We are having a little trouble with
    your audio.
        OK. Why don't we work on that technical challenge here, and
    I will move on and ask Dr. Rouse if you will please rise and
    raise your right hand. Dr. Rouse, do you swear or affirm that
    the testimony that you are about to give is the truth, the
    whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
        Ms. Rouse. I do.
        Senator Toomey. And do you agree to appear and testify
    before any duly constituted committee of the Senate?
        Ms. Rouse. I do.
        Senator Toomey. You may sit down.
        Congresswoman Fudge, are you able to hear me? We cannot
    hear your audio. OK. So I was going to recognize you first,
    Congresswoman Fudge, but because we have this technical
    difficulty, I am going to go to Dr. Rouse for her opening
    statement, and then hopefully we will have gotten the problem
    solved in the meantime. But we are not able to hear you.
        Ms. Fudge. Can you hear me now, sir?
        Senator Toomey. Now I can hear you, yes. So I am sorry to
    impose on your again, but we could not hear your response to
    the second question in the oath. So if you do not mind please
    standing and raise your right hand again, the question is: Do
    you agree to appear and testify before any duly constituted
    committee of the Senate?
        Ms. Fudge. Yes, I do.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you very much. You may sit down.
        Each of your written statements will be made a part of the
    record in their entirety. Congresswoman Fudge, please proceed
    with your statement.

             STATEMENT OF MARCIA L. FUDGE, NOMINATED TO BE
               SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN
                              DEVELOPMENT

        Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. If I may, Mr.
    Chairman, may I introduce my family that is with me today?
        Senator Toomey. Absolutely, you may.
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you. You have heard much about my mother
    today, but I am going to have her wave at you, if they could
    see her. And this is the rest, all of my family: my aunts, my
    stepfather, all of my cousins, and dear friends. So I just
    wanted you to be aware that we are all here together. I am
    very, very close to my family, and I am pleased that they could
    be with me today.
        And to my Senators, thank you for your kind words and
    certainly for your friendship.
        Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member, I thank President Biden
    for nominating me to serve as the 18th Secretary of Housing and
    Urban Development and will do everything possible to ensure
    that every American has a roof over their head.
        The housing issues our Nation faces are real, varied, and
    touch all of us. I am a strong believer in the Department's
    programs and its mission--especially with regard to serving
    those who face the greatest need.
        Senators, I have dedicated my entire life to public service
    and to working to help low-income families, seniors, and
    communities. I believe I am up to the challenge that is before
    me.
        As mayor of Warrensville Heights, Ohio, I saw firsthand the
    need for economic development and affordable housing. We
    improved the city's tax base and expanded affordable housing
    opportunities. As a Member of Congress, I tackled the unique
    challenges of my district, working with my delegation and
    across the aisle.
        Our housing issues do not fit into a cookie-cutter mold,
    and I know that the same is true in each of your States. We
    need policies and programs that can adapt to meet your unique
    housing challenges, and I would very much like to work with
    each of you to find the right answers for your States.
        It bears mentioning, particularly in this moment of crisis,
    that HUD--perhaps more than any other department--exists to
    serve the most vulnerable people in America. That mandate
    matters a great deal to me. It is consistent with my own
    values, and it is precisely what has always motivated me to
    service.
        It is estimated that, on any given night in 2019, more than
    500,000 people experienced homelessness in America. That is a
    devastating statistic--even before you consider the reality of
    what COVID-19 has done to exacerbate this crisis.
        According to one study, 21 million Americans currently pay
    more than 30 percent of their income on housing. Because of
    lost income and unemployment due to COVID, one in five renters
    and one in ten homeowners with a mortgage are behind on their
    housing payments.
        Native housing is also in a crisis, with far too many
    families living in substandard and crowded housing conditions
    on reservations.
        Although Congress provided $25 billion in rental assistance
    and the CDC extended the eviction moratorium, this is not
    enough at a time when tens of millions of Americans are behind
    on rent, almost 3 million homeowners are currently in
    forbearance, and another 800,000 borrowers are delinquent.
        Much like COVID-19, the housing crisis is not isolated by
    geography. It is the daily reality for tens of millions of our
    fellow Americans--people in blue States and red States, in
    cities and small towns.
        My first priority as Secretary would be to alleviate that
    crisis and get people the support they need to come back from
    the edge.
        We need to expand resources for HUD's programs to people
    who are eligible. Today, according to a 2017 study, only one
    out of five eligible households receive housing assistance.
        We need to deliver on the Administration's commitments on
    improving the quality, safety, and accessibility of affordable
    housing and building 1.5 million new affordable homes.
        We need to make the dream of home ownership a reality--and
    the security and wealth creation that comes with it. It needs
    to be a reality for all Americans. That will require us to end
    discriminatory practices in the housing market and ensure that
    our fair housing rules are doing what they are intended to do:
    opening the door for families, especially families of color who
    have been systematically kept out in the cold across
    generations, to buy homes and punch their ticket to the middle
    class.
        There are so many issues we need to come together to
    address--everything from bringing capital back to disinvested
    communities, to increasing energy efficiency in housing, to
    dealing with the dangers of lead-based paint, to taking on our
    crisis of homelessness with compassion and resolve.
        These are only some of the challenges, and I know that many
    of you have additional priorities as well. These problems are
    urgent, but they are not beyond our capacity to solve.
        The only way we will meet them is by working together. And
    to that end, I pledge this: If I have the honor of being
    confirmed, I will be accessible to you, I will listen to you,
    and I will be a partner to you to solve the housing challenges
    our constituents are facing back home.
        I expect you to hold me accountable. I welcome the
    accountability. And I will always strive to be a transparent
    and good-faith partner as we work together to do the vitally
    important work we are all here to do: helping families in need.
        I thank you, and I yield back.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Congresswoman Fudge.
        Dean Rouse, please proceed.

     STATEMENT OF CECILIA E. ROUSE, NOMINATED TO BE CHAIR, COUNCIL
                          OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS

        Ms. Rouse. Thank you, and thank you, Senator Menendez and
    Senator Booker, for the generous introductions.
        Chair Toomey, incoming Chairman Brown, and Members of the
    Committee, it is an honor to appear before you today. The last
    time I was before this Committee was in 2009 for my
    confirmation hearing to become a member of President Obama's
    Council of Economic Advisers. I was accompanied by many members
    of my family. This is a very different time, and while they are
    not here today, they are with me in spirit. I thank them for
    the love and support they have provided in helping me on the
    path that has led me before you today.
        That path began in the early 1980s during what was--at the
    time--one of the worst spikes in unemployment our country had
    experienced since the 1930s.
        I was a freshman in college, taking my first economics
    class. I was there because my wise mother had told me to take
    an econ class. But what really piqued my interest was
    unemployment, when I could see how classroom material could be
    applied to the world outside and the millions who were
    experiencing in real time the effects of a struggling economy.
        I was drawn to the discipline because I wanted to know why
    this was happening. Why had jobs disappeared? And what could be
    done to bring them back? I focused my work on the labor market,
    and in particular on the impact of education on people's job
    prospects, ways to tear down barriers to job growth, and
    policies to make it possible for more people to achieve long-
    lasting economic security. Since then, I have had the honor of
    working on these important issues in academia and the public
    sector.
        Today our country is living through the worst economic
    crisis since the Great Depression. Millions of families have
    had their lives turned upside down, the economic security they
    have worked so hard to build eroded almost overnight by the
    economic impact of the pandemic. Far too many have slipped
    through our frayed safety net into hardship and hopelessness.
    And structural inequities that have always existed within our
    economy have not just been exposed, but exacerbated, their
    impact more devastating than ever before.
        We must take action to shepherd our Nation's economy back
    onto solid footing. But as deeply distressing as this pandemic
    and economic fallout have been, it is also an opportunity to
    rebuild the economy better than it was before--making it work
    for everyone by increasing the availability of fulfilling jobs
    and leaving no one vulnerable to falling through the cracks.
        President Biden and Vice President Harris have made these
    the core values of their Build Back Better agenda. If
    confirmed, my job will be to provide them with objective
    economic guidance--recommendations rooted in fact and
    evidence--to help them achieve those important goals.
        As important as it is for the CEA to interpret and
    translate data and academic research, it is also vital that we
    utilize the right data. Too often economists focus on average
    outcomes, instead of examining a range of outcomes. As a
    result, our analyses tell us about average economic growth and
    the middle of the distribution; but as our economy grows more
    and more unequal, that analysis fails to capture the experience
    of the many people who are left behind, particularly people of
    color. Therefore, one of my priorities as Chair will be to try
    to understand how policies will impact all in our country as we
    strive to ensure the economy works for everyone.
        Equally important is having analysis conducted by
    economists who specialize in a variety of fields. If confirmed,
    I will staff the CEA with a well-rounded team ready to address
    the incredible breadth of challenges we face.
        To close, I am honored to be nominated for this position.
    It would allow me to work on issues close to my heart and so
    critical in this current crisis. A good-paying, fulfilling job
    has always been the key to building economic security. Today we
    are seeing the immense pain caused when our economy fails to
    fulfill that promise. But I believe there is much we can do to
    strengthen the position of everyone across this incredible
    country of ours.
        If confirmed I will work closely with you on these
    important priorities. I will do so regardless of your party
    affiliation, your approach to various policies, or your opinion
    of the Administration's efforts. Economists are trained to
    gather and analyze information and consider innovative
    perspectives. That is how I will approach this job, and my door
    will always be open.
        And with that, I am happy to take your questions.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Dr. Rouse.
        I will now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questioning
    and remind my colleagues that we have a lot of Members on this
    Committee and we really need to try to stick to this clock.
        Congresswoman Fudge, to go back to your quote from
    September of 2020, you referred to Republicans who wanted to
    fill Justice Ginsburg's seat, which is to say every single
    Republican Senator, as ``having no decency, no honor, no
    integrity, and as a disgrace to the Nation.'' Those are quotes.
    Do you stand by that statement?
        Ms. Fudge. Let me first say, Senator, that I think there
    are more to those quotes, but let me just suggest that I have
    always been able to work across the aisle. I have a reputation
    that shows my bipartisanship. Yes, I do listen to my
    constituents, and sometimes I am a little passionate about
    things. Is my tone pitch perfect all the time? It is not. But I
    do know this: that I have the ability and the capacity to work
    with Republicans. And I intend to do just that, and that is my
    commitment to you.
        Senator Toomey. In June of last year, while discussing
    Republican policing reform efforts, you said in part that if
    Republicans ``want to save face and let this country know that
    they care even a little bit about people of color, which I do
    not believe they do, but if they want to try, I want to
    listen.'' Do you really believe that Republicans do not care
    even a little bit about people of color?
        Ms. Fudge. I think the latter part of my statement is my
    true feeling. If they do, I do want to listen. I listen. I have
    always listened. I am one of the most bipartisan Members in the
    House of Representatives, and I think that if you would check
    that, my record would reflect that.
        Senator Toomey. Let me ask you about the issue of deploying
    the APA and complying with it. Congresswoman Fudge, President
    Biden, as you probably know, has directed the HUD Secretary to
    examine the effects of the HUD's 2020 disparate impact rule. If
    you are confirmed and you carry out that examination, if you
    conclude that revisions to the rule are, in fact, needed, will
    you comply with the APA and go through a robust notice-and-
    comment rulemaking rather than merely trying to revert
    automatically back to the previous rule?
        Ms. Fudge. That is a great question, Senator. I am going to
    follow the law and follow the rules. You do not ever have to
    worry about that. That is my commitment to you.
        Senator Toomey. So there is some flexibility within the
    APA, as you probably know. What I am specifically interested in
    is whether you are willing to go through the notice-and-comment
    period so that you can get as much input as possible and make
    the most informed judgment going forward. Is that something you
    are willing to do?
        Ms. Fudge. It is something I am certainly willing to
    consider, sir, yes.
        Senator Toomey. OK. And I assume that you would ensure that
    any revisions that you would make would be consistent with the
    Supreme Court ruling in the Inclusive Communities decision?
        Ms. Fudge. No question about it. I, again, will support the
    law. But if I may, Senator?
        Senator Toomey. Yes.
        Ms. Fudge. I listened to your opening statement, and you
    were talking about unintended consequences. I kind of look at
    the disparate impact rule the same way. You know, we do things
    oftentimes not intending to be discriminatory, but our effect
    is discriminatory.
        Senator Toomey. I understand that, and that is worthy of a
    whole lengthy conversation. But in the interest of keeping to
    my 5-minute limit, I just want to touch on another issue, if I
    could, and that is the Mutual Mortgage Insurance Fund. Again,
    this is a fund that protects taxpayers from losses. If you
    decide to make changes, specifically any lowering of the
    premiums for that fund, will you commit to making sure that you
    do that in a collaborative fashion with Members of Congress?
        Ms. Fudge. You have my commitment, not only will--if I am
    fortunate enough to be confirmed, I will talk to the staff at
    HUD. We will figure out what the status is right now and come
    back to you to have discussions about where we should go from
    there. You have my commitment.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you.
        Dr. Rouse, I appreciated our conversation the other day. I
    enjoyed the discussion. I just want to stress--well, maybe I
    would just ask, is it your view that when the Government
    mandates a certain economic policy, it is often the case that
    there are unintended consequences and costs to policies that
    might also have benefits?
        Ms. Rouse. Well, thank you, Senator. What is important is
    that when the Government imposes mandates, that it does so
    completely understanding the potential benefits of such
    mandates as well as the costs, and to undertake those mandates
    where the benefits would outweigh the costs. So if there is
    [inaudible], the most important thing is to understand both
    costs and benefits.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you.
        Senator Brown.
        Senator Brown. First of all, I think the fact that Senator
    Portman called Congresswoman Fudge and offered to cointroduce
    her or introduce her tells you a lot about her bipartisan work.
    And, you know, we all are outspoken about our views. Marcia is,
    I am, Pat Toomey is, Rob Portman is. And I have just always
    found Congresswoman Fudge to work with me, to work with most of
    our House delegation in Ohio. It overwhelmingly is Republican,
    and she works with them, and she represents her constituents
    with fervor and passion through all of that.
        Let me start with Congresswoman Fudge. As you know, before
    this pandemic, as you pointed out, Dr. Rouse, borne out in both
    your testimonies, families in our country were struggling to
    make rent prior to the pandemic. There were nearly a million
    evictions every year prior to this. We know the pandemic, as
    you both have said, has pushed so many millions of families
    over the edge. That is one of the reasons I am so proud of what
    we did with the CARES Act, especially if we had kept it going,
    because we kept 12 million people out of poverty.
        Congresswoman Fudge, the emergency funds Congress voted to
    provide in December were just a downpayment. As President Biden
    and many of us in Congress have said, we have to do more to
    prevent waves of foreclosures and evictions to stop millions of
    people from taking a permanent financial hit because of the
    crisis. Just give us a short version of what you will do
    through HUD to ensure that families do not lose their homes?
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you so much, Senator. You know, one of the
    things we must do is stabilize the market. We cannot afford to
    have people, millions of people, evicted from their homes or
    their apartments, because the problem then just gets worse. It
    does not get better. And I understand that there are some who
    believe that we are doing more than we should, but I believe we
    are not doing enough.
        On any given day, we have 8 million people who need
    housing. So not only do we need to protect those who are
    currently in housing, but we need to ensure that those who are
    without housing get it.
        And so one of the things that we have to talk about is
    finding ways to expand our inventory of low- and moderate-
    income housing. We have to keep people in public housing who
    are already there. We need to expand housing choice vouchers so
    that we can at least start to reduce the numbers of people who
    are paying exorbitant amounts of money for rent.
        We also need to find ways to assist people who want to
    build low-income and affordable housing, and we do that through
    many things. But, last, and most importantly, we want to be
    sure that FHA is available for people who want to take the next
    step. So that may be helping with downpayment assistance; it
    may mean reducing rent. Whatever it takes, we cannot afford to
    allow people in the midst of a pandemic to be put in the
    streets. I just believe that extraordinary times take
    extraordinary action, and we are in extraordinary times,
    Senator.
        Senator Brown. Thank you, Congresswoman. Let me ask you a
    quick up-or-down question. In the past 4 years, the Trump
    administration--I mean a yes-or-no question. The Trump
    administration tried to undo HUD's mission to enforce fair
    housing laws. You and I have talked about that a lot. Earlier
    this week, the President announced several Executive orders and
    plans to begin to reverse these policies and finally work to
    fulfill the promises of the Fair Housing Act.
        My question: If confirmed, will you commit to fully enforce
    fair housing laws?
        Ms. Fudge. Yes.
        Senator Brown. Good. Thank you.
        I will close with a statement both to Dr. Rouse and to
    Congresswoman Fudge. Cities like Cleveland still have far too
    many homes that expose children to dangerous lead paint. In
    2019, researchers found there were elementary schools in Marcia
    Fudge's and my hometown of Cleveland where more than a third of
    kindergartners had elevated lead levels in their blood, 5- and
    6-year-olds, disproportionately, of course, as we know,
    children of color. We start them out in life with such a
    disadvantage.
        Dr. Rouse, you are a researcher who studies education and
    its connection to work. You know the cost, both moral and
    economic, that occurs when our fellow citizens are unable to
    achieve their full potential, especially when it starts
    [inaudible]. We know how to keep kids safe from lead poisoning.
    We are seeing some promising steps in Cleveland and elsewhere.
    My colleague Senator Reed, the most senior Member of this
    Committee, has worked on this in his appropriations role also.
    We just have not had the public collective political will to do
    it.
        I hope that that is going to change. I look forward to
    working with both of you, Dr. Rouse and Congresswoman Fudge, to
    fully protect our kids from lead and other threats to their
    health. It is hard to imagine anything so important.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Brown.
        Senator Scott.
        Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To Congresswoman
    Fudge as well as Dr. Rouse, thank you for your willingness to
    serve our country, and I look forward to having a meaningful
    dialogue about some of the issues that will be very important
    to the Nation. And, frankly, Congresswoman Fudge, I have
    respect for you and appreciation for your willingness to serve.
    And I think you and I are philosophically disjointed on a
    number of issues, but your willingness to serve is strong.
        I do want to talk a little bit about some of the previous
    comments that you have made about the Republican Party as it
    relates to race that I think--I cannot say that your comments
    were taken out of context. I would simply say that I would love
    to have a longer conversation about how effective the
    Republican Party has been on meeting some of the needs of the
    most vulnerable people in this country, specifically
    minorities, over the last several years. I have certainly
    played a role in making sure that some of the priorities that
    impact our community have been brought to the surface, to the
    top, and have been prioritized by the Republican Party. And
    just to name a few, and then I am going to get to the questions
    that I have, highest level of funding for HBCUs in the history
    of this country; permanent funding for the first time in the
    history of the country; the lowest unemployment rate ever
    recorded prepandemic in the history of the country for African-
    Americans, Hispanics, Asians; 60-year low for women as well;
    research on rare blood diseases to include sickle cell anemia;
    criminal justice reform that actually, frankly, made up for
    some of the challenges of President Biden's 1994 law; increases
    in the labor force participation rate. I believe in 2016 home
    ownership for African-Americans was around 41 percent; today it
    is around 46 percent. And that is even after the dip of the
    pandemic.
        Poverty at the lowest rate recorded since 1959; aid to
    Black farmers that I have worked on through heirs' property,
    focusing on heirs' property as a real issue. Coming from the
    South, I know and understand and appreciate the value of
    allowing African-American farmers to use heirs' property in a
    way to obtain a farm number so that they can participate fully
    in the USDA. It is really important. And, finally, opportunity
    zones that are having a positive, strong impact throughout this
    country, and, frankly, the TCJA certainly was passed on a
    partisan level only, but the opportunity zone legislation is
    legislation that was cosponsored by Cory Booker and House
    Members that are Democrats and Republicans.
        To that end, I hope and my question for you is can I count
    on you to take serious the opportunity to use opportunity zones
    as a way of meeting some of the challenging needs that we have
    from our housing stock around the country?
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you so much, Senator Scott. It is nice to
    see you, actually.
        Senator Scott. Yes, ma'am, thank you.
        Ms. Fudge. And it is my pleasure to have a conversation
    with you about what you have done as it relates to minority
    communities and communities that are hurting. It would indeed
    be something that I would like to discuss with you.
        As it relates to opportunity zones, I will take seriously,
    of course, opportunity zones. Certainly I would like, if
    confirmed, to get into the office and look at how many jobs
    have been created, how many sustainable jobs have been created,
    what the cost has been. I mean, I think that you have to be
    driven by data, and I will absolutely take it seriously. I know
    it is something important to you, and I would be happy to have
    those conversations with you going forward.
        Senator Scott. Thank you. I will note that in opportunity
    zones they are responsible for helping, even in Columbus, Ohio,
    50 incarcerated individuals in Columbus find housing, 95 units
    of workforce housing, 100 new jobs in Cleveland; in my State,
    Hampton County, a very poor rural community, 1,500 jobs in the
    community, only has 5,000 jobs brought to them by opportunity
    zones, and that continues throughout major cities, from
    Birmingham to Rock Hill, South Carolina, where we are using
    opportunity zones to really challenge the playing field for
    those folks who have been left out and who are desperate for
    housing.
        Speaking of being desperate for housing, about 22 million
    Americans live in manufactured housing throughout this country,
    one in five in South Carolina. The definition of ``manufactured
    housing'' is no longer the trailers that people have in mind.
    Manufactured housing has the diversity within its construct,
    and I would love to hear that you have an interest and perhaps
    even a passion for making sure that we continue to prioritize
    manufactured housing as one of the ways for us to lower the
    cost and make more homeowners--make home ownership more
    possible for more Americans. Have you done any homework on the
    manufactured housing? And I would love to hear your thoughts on
    using that to meet some of the needs that we have throughout
    the community.
        Ms. Fudge. Yes, I have as a matter of fact. Thank you for
    the question. I have done research. I have actually had
    conversations with those who build manufactured housing. I
    think it is an outstanding option. The cost is about $78,000 to
    $100,000 a home. It is affordable. It is something we can do
    rapidly. I am 100 percent supportive of looking more into how
    we incorporate manufactured housing.
        Senator Scott. Thank you, ma'am.
        Thank you, Chairman.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Scott.
        Senator Reed.
        Senator Reed. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I want
    to welcome Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse to the hearing.
    Dr. Rouse, thank you for your service to Rhode Island as a
    member of the board of trustees of URI, so, go Rhody. And I
    want to say to the Congresswoman thank you for your great work
    in the Congress.
        We have all touched upon affordable housing, and sometimes
    we see it simply as the human cost, which is tremendous. But
    there is a definite economic cost, too, which should be an
    incentive to build more affordable housing.
        In Rhode Island, for example, 90 percent of our homeless
    individuals are on Medicaid, and their cost per annum is about
    $14,000. That is 80 percent more than the overall average
    Medicaid recipient. So when you address the affordable housing
    issue, I hope you will point out consistently the economic
    benefits of affordable housing as well as the human cost. Any
    comments, I would appreciate it, Congresswoman.
        Ms. Fudge. Yes, and thank you, Senator, for the
    conversation we have had to discuss some of the issues that I
    know are important to you.
        The economic costs are in the trillions. I mean, if you
    look at the data, the data shows that it is an economic
    deterrent to not have people in housing. When you look at the
    lost jobs, the lost income, and the lost development
    opportunities, it is more difficult for people to get to work,
    so we lose so much when we do not have decent, affordable
    public housing. And the cost of homelessness is just
    skyrocketing. It was bad before we ever addressed COVID. Now
    what we have found out is that the cost of care for homeless
    people is skyrocketing as a result of COVID, because homeless
    people tend to be sicker. Homeless people tend to contract the
    disease more often. Poorer people or people who live in public
    housing tend to contract the disease more often. And so it is a
    very costly proposition just physically as well as
    economically.
        Senator Reed. Thank you very much, Congresswoman, and let
    me associate myself also with Senator Brown's comments on lead.
    We have had the same problem in Rhode Island as you have had in
    Cleveland because we probably have about the same age of
    housing. I have worked very closely with Chairman Collins on
    the Appropriations Committee to get funding for lead. But one
    of the things I would just like to point out, as you recognized
    very clearly, with the pandemic more particularly low-income
    people are spending time crowded in a home which might have
    lead problems. So the problem is even more acute today because
    of the pandemic, and we have to apply the resources to that. I
    know you agree, but I just want to get that on the record.
        Ms. Fudge. Yes, thank you. I agree 100 percent.
        Senator Reed. Thank you.
        Again, Dr. Rouse, thank you for your help to Rhode Island.
    As I said before, go Rhody. Senator Toomey and I both have
    certain ties to the State, so we appreciate your help to the
    university.
        One issue I want to raise in my brief time remaining is
    automatic stabilizers for unemployment insurance. In Rhode
    Island, at the last recession, you noticed, because you were
    working in the Administration, that some States came out first
    so that the overall national picture looked pretty good, but
    Rhode Island and Nevada were going head to head every week as
    to who would have the highest unemployment rate at about 12
    percent.
        So as we go forward, I would hope you would consider
    automatic stabilizers so that certain parts of the country--and
    it is not one region, perhaps; it is based on lots of factors--
    would not be left behind when the overall economy starts
    growing. Your comments, Doctor?
        Ms. Rouse. Thank you, Senator Reed, and, yes, go Rhody. So
    I think automatic stabilizers are an important tool in our
    toolkit as we think about how we deal with our economic
    slowdowns and help families and our economy recover. We already
    have them in terms of SNAP and Medicaid and taxes, and so, you
    know, they should be part of it.
        I think URI is a natural place for us to also have
    automatic stabilizers. Obviously, incorporating the differences
    across the country by geography would be an important part of
    any design. There are challenges there, but I do think that
    that is an important place for us [inaudible].
        Senator Reed. Well, thank you very much, both of you. Good
    luck. Thank you.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Reed.
        I just want to remind Senators to please turn on your
    camera if you are present and intending to speak so that we
    know that you are there. And I think next up is Senator Cotton.
        Senator Cotton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Congresswoman Fudge, President Biden and his senior
    advisers have said that one of his top housing priorities is
    racial equity, not racial equality. In fact, earlier this week,
    President Biden used the phrase ``racial equity'' at a press
    availability but immediately corrected himself to say ``racial
    equity.'' [sic]
        What is the difference between racial equity and racial
    equality?
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you for the question, Senator. From my own
    perspective, the difference is that one just means that you
    treat everybody the same. Sometimes the same is not equitable.
    You know, if you say to me that ``I am going to give you $5''
    and you are going to give my friend $5, my $5 is not going to
    necessarily go as far because my friend already has a mother
    and father who are wealthy and they are giving them--let us do
    it this way: home ownership. Let us take it that way. They say
    let us make everything equal. But it is not equal because even
    though I meet all of the qualifications to qualify for a loan--
    you know, I have got the right credit scores, et cetera, but I
    do not have downpayment money because my parents cannot afford
    to give me a downpayment, there is no wealth coming to me,
    where most people who are not--that do not look like me have
    options that I do not have.
        So just to say to treat us all the same is not the same.
    Equity means making the playing field level. Sometimes it is
    not level if you just say, ``Let us just treat everybody the
    same.''
        Senator Cotton. All right. So racial equality means
    treating everyone the same, correct?
        Ms. Fudge. Yeah, the same, though it is not always fair.
    That is correct.
        Senator Cotton. So just to be clear, then, it sounds like
    racial equity means treating people differently based on their
    race. Is that correct?
        Ms. Fudge. Not based on race, but it could be based on
    economics; it could be based on the history of discrimination
    that has existed for a long time. It could be based on
    educational levels. It could be based on many things, not
    necessarily just race.
        Senator Cotton. Is it ever appropriate for the Government
    to treat people differently based on their race?
        Ms. Fudge. No.
        Senator Cotton. Thank you.
        I want to return to something that came up with Senator
    Toomey. You had said last year, September 2020, during the
    debate about Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's vacancy on the
    Supreme Court in a floor speech, ``Those who are bent on
    choosing her successor have no decency, they have no honor,
    they have no integrity.'' You later said, ``They are a disgrace
    to this Nation.''
        If I recall correctly, Pat Toomey wanted to replace Justice
    Ginsburg on the bench. Do you believe that Pat Toomey has no
    decency, has no honor, has no integrity, and is a disgrace to
    this Nation?
        Ms. Fudge. Sir, first off, I do not really know Senator
    Toomey. I am certain that he is not. He seems like a fine man
    to me.
        Senator Cotton. Your audio cut out there for a moment. I
    will just say----
        Ms. Fudge. Can you hear me now?
        Senator Cotton. Yes, ma'am. I will say for the record that
    I believe that Senator Toomey has decency, honor, and
    integrity.
        I want to turn to another moment last year. In June 2020,
    around the debate about policing reform, you said that, ``We
    have them''--``them'' being Republicans--``on the run, quite
    frankly. Right now the President has Tim Scott trying to come
    up with a bill, and so they know they must do something, and
    they know they cannot do it without us. So if they want to save
    face and let this country know that they care even a little bit
    about people of color, which I do not believe they do, but if
    they want to try, I want to listen.''
        Congresswoman Fudge, do you believe that Tim Scott does not
    care even a little bit about people of color?
        Ms. Fudge. Tim Scott happens to be a friend. I support and
    trust Tim Scott.
        Senator Cotton. Could you answer my question, please? You
    have said that, `` . . . if they care even a little bit about
    people of color, which I do not believe they do''--referring to
    Republicans, of which Tim Scott is one--do you believe he cares
    even a little bit about people of color?
        Ms. Fudge. He is one, but he is not--I was not talking
    about all Republicans. Tim Scott clearly is a fine, upstanding
    Senator, and I do believe he cares.
        Senator Cotton. OK. Thank you, Congresswoman Fudge.
        I could go on. There is a long history of intemperate
    comments such as this. Obviously, all of us in public life
    sometimes say things that we hope we could take back. But if
    you are confirmed, you are going to be serving the needs of
    many, many Republicans as well as Democrats and nonpartisan
    people as well, and I hope that in the future you can serve
    them in a way that reflects your best moments in Congress and
    not some of these comments.
        Thank you.
        Ms. Fudge. Well, certainly I thank you, and I do serve
    people now, Republicans and Democrats, quite well. Thank you.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Cotton.
        Senator Menendez.
        Senator Menendez. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will
    just make a comment. You know, if intemperate comments or harsh
    comments are the standard, I presided as the Ranking Member of
    the Senate Foreign Relations Committee over an enormous number
    of individuals who would have never gotten through the
    Committee, and certainly Republicans overwhelmingly voted for
    them, and their comments might have been seen in the same
    context. I understand the nature of political comments at the
    end of the day, and I believe from everything I have seen of
    Congresswoman Fudge that she will work for all people--
    Democrats, Republicans, Independents, White, Black, Brown,
    Native Americans, and others.
        Let me just turn to the question of eviction and housing
    crisis that displaces millions of American families and further
    destabilizes our country. As of this month, 2.7 million
    homeowners are in forbearance plans. As of last month, nearly
    one in five adult renters were not caught up on rent. And as
    with any American crisis, the situation is particularly dire
    for minority communities. Talk about equity and those issues.
        As of last month, 28 percent of Black renters and 24
    percent of Latino renters said they were not caught up on their
    rent compared to only 12 percent of White renters. So in
    previous crises, housing counseling has helped families stay in
    their homes.
        Congresswoman Fudge, do you believe providing additional
    funding for housing counseling would help prevent evictions and
    foreclosures in this crisis as well?
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you so much for the question, Senator. I
    absolutely do believe that counseling is a major part of
    assisting people, whether it is staying in their homes or
    continuing to pay their rent. We have programs that are
    available to people that they are not aware of because we do
    not provide the resources to make them aware. So counseling
    should be at the top of our list, especially as we try to work
    our way out of this crisis.
        Senator Menendez. Well, I agree with you very much. As a
    matter of fact, according to the National Community
    Reinvestment Coalition, for example, loans to homebuyers that
    receive counseling perform better, and in 2017, 74 percent of
    housing counseling clients were people of color. That is why I
    hope you will work with me in helping me pass my Coronavirus
    Housing Counseling Investment Act, something I think that would
    help all of our families.
        Under the last Administration, HUD relocated key
    multifamily housing staff from its office in Newark to the New
    York Regional Office. As former mayors, we both understand that
    represents a significant challenge for the over 750 multifamily
    properties that exist in New Jersey. Can you commit to me that
    you will ensure that the Newark office has the staff it needs
    and that New Jersey and its interests remain a priority with
    HUD?
        Ms. Fudge. Yes, I can commit that to you, sir.
        Senator Menendez. Thank you.
        Dr. Rouse, last week I asked Secretary Yellen about the
    importance of providing fiscal relief to our State and local
    governments so they can continue to fight the pandemic and keep
    our essential workers on the job and off the unemployment line.
    She agreed that now would not be the time to withhold fiscal
    support from State and local governments. Do you agree with
    that?
        Ms. Rouse. Yes, Senator, I do share Janet Yellen's view,
    which is that our prime focus right now has to be on getting us
    through this pandemic, to provide aid to our households, to our
    businesses, especially small businesses. But, also we need to
    ensure that our State and local governments can be providing
    for the firefighters, the transit workers, the first
    responders, and our educators as they are stepping up in ways
    that they would not have budgeted for last year.
        I would also highlight that in the Great Recession not
    providing relief to--well, we provided relief to State and
    local governments, but it was the job losses there that
    provided a drag on the recovery. And so, again, to ensure that
    we have a swift return back to economic health, providing aid
    to State and local governments is part of that package.
        Senator Menendez. Thank you.
        And, finally, Congresswoman Fudge, I appreciated the visit
    that we had. Eight years ago, New Jersey faced the worst
    natural disaster in our State's history, Superstorm Sandy,
    causing havoc throughout the State. And New Jersey families are
    now finding themselves, after having traveled the convoluted
    procedures, where they got some assistance from FEMA and from
    HUD to rebuild their lives, get them back in, but now finding
    themselves being caught in a maze in which there is an effort
    to claw back some of those monies. I hope that you can work
    with us to provide flexibility [inaudible] these survivors in
    New Jersey.
        Ms. Fudge. Absolutely, Senator, and I appreciate your
    informing me and getting me up to speed on the situation, and
    if confirmed, it will be one of the early things that I take a
    look at.
        Senator Menendez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Menendez.
        Senator Rounds.
        Senator Rounds. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Congresswoman Fudge, first of all, thank you very much for
    the opportunity yesterday to visit with you. I appreciated our
    conversation. As I discussed with you at that time, I had
    suspected that a number of my colleagues, before I had the
    opportunity to speak, would address the issues of some of the
    statements that you made in the past, and I would like to move
    on to another particular area of concerns that I have got that
    we may very well find some agreement on, and that has to do
    with our Native Americans and the housing shortages on the
    reservations.
        I represent a State, South Dakota, that has nine tribes,
    all of whom are sovereign and who have a lot of their land in
    what we call ``trust'' or ``treaty trust tribes.'' I would like
    to draw your attention to a provision of the last omnibus
    funding bill that I championed that would streamline HUD's
    Section 184 lending program.
        As I mentioned in our conversation, lending tribal trust
    land is a rather difficult process, and the HUD 184 loans that
    are meant to provide mortgage credit where it is scarce can be
    delayed by a slow exchange of vital information between the BIA
    and HUD. The provision that I led would allow HUD to issue the
    certificates of guarantee per a 184 loan without waiting for
    the BIA if the lender originating the loan agrees to indemnify
    HUD for any losses. This would significantly streamline the
    program, but HUD will still have to proactively work with the
    individual lenders and housing organizations that serve Native
    Americans in order for the Section 184 program to be
    successful. A lot of them are very local lenders, and they know
    how to handle a lot of the individuals that are there and the
    challenges they have on a personal basis in order to get that
    loan approved.
        But if confirmed, will you commit to work with me and our
    Native American stakeholders in South Dakota to making the HUD
    Section 184 lending program a success?
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you again, Senator, for meeting with me.
    Yes, you have my commitment to work with you. I have had the
    opportunity to reach out to a number of Native American
    stakeholders. We have had conversations about some of the
    issues that you have addressed. And I know firsthand from
    having been on a reservation how difficult that situation is. I
    am totally supportive of working with you to see what we can do
    to make things better.
        Senator Rounds. Thank you.
        Dr. Rouse, I would like to thank you also for your
    willingness to have a phone call with us and also for your
    willingness to serve. As I mentioned in our phone conversation,
    there have been significant economic disparities between States
    like South Dakota, where social distancing comes naturally, and
    larger, more populated States that have experienced a
    significant spread of COVID-19. I also understand that your
    role will involve providing counsel to the President on
    economic matters.
        How do you believe future COVID-19 assistance can be
    targeted for those who need it most while being mindful of the
    fact that we are long into the territory of spending money that
    basically we are going to be borrowing? And by that, I mean, I
    know that we talk about State and local governments, but the
    need and the demand varies a lot from State to State, and
    trying to target the assistance seems to be a really sensitive
    issue right now.
        Can you talk a little bit about how you are planning on
    balancing your recommendations to the President, recognizing
    that we still have needs, but also recognizing that every
    single dollar that we intend to offer is money that we will be
    borrowing and probably the next two generations will have to
    pay back?
        Ms. Rouse. Yes, Senator, thank you, and I appreciated our
    conversation yesterday. So if we take a step back and think
    about the purpose of the Federal assistance right now, it is
    that we want to both provide assistance to people today while
    ensuring that our economy grows so that future generations are
    better off. So I [inaudible] is to get us to the other side of
    this pandemic and help ensure that our economy----
        Senator Rounds. Dr. Rouse, I apologize. You are cutting
    out, and so what I would do, with the permission of the Chair,
    is I will put this in as a question for the record, and I will
    just simply ask if you could get back with me on that
    particular one. Thank you, Dr. Rouse.
        Let me move back to Congresswoman Fudge for just a second.
    We did not have the opportunity to address this in our
    conversation yesterday, but one of the major outstanding issues
    from the 2008 financial crisis is housing finance reform. HUD
    does not have a primary jurisdiction over this matter, but,
    nonetheless, your work on housing will be important in deciding
    what to do with the GSEs.
        Are there any thoughts you would like to share with us as
    to what should happen with Fannie and Freddie or what an exit
    from conservatorship should look like?
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you, Senator. You know, the one thing I
    would say is that one of the things we have not done as a
    Nation is have a holistic approach to housing. At some point we
    need to have a collaborative discussion between FHA, between
    FHFA, Treasury, HUD, and I would say that this is such a huge
    issue and has such big implications for the market. We are
    talking about a $5 trillion business.
        I believe that just as Congress has chartered these GSEs,
    it is Congress' ultimate decision as to how they should be
    handled. I believe that the Congress--that this is such a big
    issue that Congress should make that decision.
        Senator Rounds. Thank you. I look forward to working with
    you on that issue in the future.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Rounds.
        Senator Tester.
        Senator Tester. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want
    to start by thanking both Congresswoman Fudge and Cecilia Rouse
    for being here today, and I appreciate your willingness to
    serve.
        I just want to spin off of Senator Rounds' last point, and
    it is a point you made, Congresswoman Fudge. There are so many
    times in Government--I mean, we were justice talking about
    broadband yesterday. There are four or five agencies that deal
    with broadband. You just talked about the number of agencies
    that are dealing with housing.
        You know very well, being a Congressperson, that Congress
    is not really renowned for getting things done. That is why we
    have the number of Executive orders that have gone out over the
    last few Administrations. And I would appreciate--I think you
    are right. Congress does need to act. But in the meantime, I
    would appreciate it if you can break down the silos in the
    housing arena in particular, because I think that is one of the
    boat anchors on our economy.
        In that regard, I wanted to visit with you a little bit
    about in your position at HUD, what will you do to support
    affordable workforce housing and rehabilitation?
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much, and thank you for our
    visit. Certainly HUD's mission is to provide housing, low-
    income and affordable housing. So I support that mission by
    saying that we need to expand, as we talked about, expand
    housing choice vouchers. It is something that we must do. We
    need to find resources to assist with paying rents, with
    downpayments.
        We all know that when we come out of this crisis, whenever
    that is, people are not going to just be able to say, you know,
    ``I am 14 months behind in rent, and I can just pay it all back
    right now.'' We know that is not going to happen. And so we
    have to come up with a cohesive policy to allow people to know
    that the Government is going to be assisting them, and we have
    many ways to do it.
        Certainly FHFA comes within the control, under the
    jurisdiction, but the others do not. But I again believe that
    the only way that we solve any of these problems is to do it
    through interagencies, to talk about what that policy should
    be, and that is the only way we solve these issues, is to come
    together and agree.
        Senator Tester. OK. Thank you. Also spinning off of Senator
    Rounds' comment on Indian country, I would hope that you have
    somebody in HUD, if you are confirmed, have somebody in HUD
    that is able to deal with the myriad of programs that impact
    Indian housing, because it is incredibly deficient.
        Senator Booker was on earlier today, and we have had a
    conversation about poverty in inner cities and poverty with
    large land-based Indian tribes. They are both significant
    problems, and I hope that you have somebody in your agency that
    is willing to work with the BIA to make sure that we get some
    housing built in Indian country because, quite frankly, it is
    massively deficient. You do not need to respond to that. Just
    do that, if you could, if you are confirmed.
        My last question is for Cecilia Rouse. Cecilia--and I
    should have said this with Congresswoman Fudge--thank you for
    meeting with us. I appreciate the conversation we had. We are
    in the middle of a pandemic which has caused the economy to go
    into recession, depression some will say. It depends on what
    area of business you are in.
        I want to know your perspective as we are talking about
    borrowed money, and it has been talked about a lot and is
    certainly a concern to me. But I want to know your perspective
    on how we spend money right now, especially if it is borrowed,
    as you said, to move the country out of a potential decline and
    into economic growth again.
        Ms. Rouse. Thank you, Senator, and I apologize for my
    connection. I am trying with an earpiece now. So I do believe
    that the best way for us to get back on solid economic footing
    is by getting through this pandemic, and that means supporting
    households, supporting businesses, especially small businesses,
    supporting our State and local governments.
        If we do not, we run the risk of actually finding ourselves
    in a downward spiral, because the capacity to deal with our
    debt is not only the amount that we spend but the size of our
    economy. And if we want to keep our economy going, we need to
    be spending some money.
        So I believe we have to be doing smart investments as we
    come out of this that have economic returns such as those on
    investments in infrastructure, R&D, education, so that we again
    put our economy on a strong footing so that it is growing and
    there for future generations.
        Senator Tester. And I assume when you say ``smart
    investments,'' you are saying that monies that are appropriated
    by Congress need to be targeted.
        Ms. Rouse. They need to be targeted. They need to be smart.
    They need to be in those areas where we know that the economic
    benefit outweighs the cost.
        Senator Tester. Thank you both for your willingness to
    serve.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Tester.
        Senator Tillis.
        Senator Tillis. Thank you, Chairman Toomey and incoming
    Chairman Brown. And thanks to Congresswoman Fudge and Dean
    Rouse for being here. And congratulations to your family,
    Congresswoman. I loved seeing my mom in the background. I am
    glad yours is there, too.
        A real quick question for you, Congresswoman Fudge. Do you
    recognize the backlog of the pending HUD code changes passed by
    the Manufactured Housing Consensus Committee? Do you recognize
    those as things that need to be fixed?
        Ms. Fudge. Yes, sir, I do.
        Senator Tillis. And on a related note, Congresswoman, I
    remember when I was Speaker of the House down in North
    Carolina, I met with a town that was in my district, and it was
    on affordable housing, which I supported significantly in North
    Carolina. About 45 minutes went on things that we could do
    produce affordable housing. Then they requested that I support
    a bill that would mandate a sprinkler in single-family housing
    for fire suppression, which for a $100,000 home would increase
    the cost of the home by about $15,000. It really made me start
    thinking about barriers to affordable housing that could
    potentially be an overreach in certain communities. I had this
    discussion with Dr. Carson about when we have to prioritize
    limited funds for affordable housing.
        What are your thoughts on potentially looking at
    jurisdictions that have a need for affordable housing but may
    have overreached on the barriers to that purely through
    regulatory overreach as a means for kind of prioritizing where
    we put these limited dollars to address affordable housing
    problems?
        Ms. Rouse. Well, thank you for the question, Senator. I
    think everything is on the table. I mean, we have to look at
    regulations. We also have to look at safety. We have to be sure
    that if we want to put people in housing, we have to do it in
    the most efficient, effective, and safe way.
        So I believe all of those things are on the table and would
    be something that I would be happy to discuss with you and take
    a good look at.
        Senator Tillis. Well, thank you. If confirmed, I would like
    to talk about things that we absolutely have to regulate to
    make sure that people have a safe home, but maybe let the
    regulatory burden in certain jurisdictions be instructive
    toward grants and other things that they may be eligible for.
        So, again, Congresswoman Fudge and family, congratulations
    on your nomination. And, Congresswoman, thank you for your
    service, long-time service to your community.
        Dean Rouse, I have got a question. Before COVID hit, we had
    an economy that I think by most measures was moving in the
    right direction, and I believe that part of that were some of
    the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act--not all of it. There are other
    factors, but were a significant contributing factor to the
    economic growth. We understand that President Biden is going to
    propose tax increases, and particularly corporate tax
    increases. What is your position on how we move forward and
    best position our economy to grow as we continue to make
    progress on the vaccine and reopen the economy? Do you think
    that increasing corporate taxes is called for?
        Ms. Rouse. Senator Tillis, thank you for that question. You
    have really landed on an important question, which is that we
    understand that now in order to get to the other side of the
    pandemic, we need to--the Federal Government needs to step in.
    But as we get to the other side and get back on the path for
    economic growth, I think it is important that we look at the
    Federal budget in totality and think about the important
    investments that we need to make in order to improve economic
    growth, but also understand how are we going to pay for those
    investments now.
        So I believe we should be taking a comprehensive look at
    that. The President has committed in saying that he wants to
    look at an array of tax options, but that he believes that
    individuals and corporations should pay their fair share. So
    this is not to say that there is just an automatic repeal of
    the tax credits that were passed before, but we need to look at
    the most important ways that we can both raise revenue in the
    most economically efficient way possible, but that ensuring
    that everybody is paying their fair share.
        Senator Tillis. Thank you. I will be submitting questions
    for the record to both of you. Thank you very much and, again,
    congratulations on your nominations.
        Ms. Rouse. Thank you.
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Tillis.
        Senator Warner.
        Senator Warner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you,
    incoming Chair Brown. Congratulations to both the nominees. I
    enjoyed our conversations together.
        I am going to direct most of my comments this morning to
    Dr. Rouse, but as Congresswoman Fudge knows, particularly on
    housing finance reform, this is an issue that is
    extraordinarily important to me, and I look forward to
    revisiting it with you once you are confirmed.
        Dr. Rouse, one of the things that came out of the first
    CARES package that I think was extraordinarily significant long
    term was that when we did the expansion of unemployment, there
    were two component parts, as we all know: one part, the $600-a-
    week plus-up, which was relatively controversial; the other
    part that I think there was broad-based support for was the
    expansion to cover the self-employed, gig workers, independent
    contractors, a whole host of folks. We have discussed that
    universe of workers, and that type of work is not going away.
        I think it is terribly important that we have a social
    contract that includes all forms of work. I hope there will be
    a further expansion of benefits to those workers, including a
    component of portability, something that I have worked with
    Members of the Committee on for a long time.
        Can you speak to how we continue--sticking with
    unemployment to start, how we continue this commitment to
    unemployment in this expanded basis? Obviously, it was
    continued in the December COVID package. I was proud of that.
    But at some point, it cannot be an entirely Federal Government
    obligation. We have got to have those payers kicking in as
    well. But can you speak to your goal for how we make sure
    unemployment covers all forms of work?
        Ms. Rouse. Senator, I share your interest and commitment to
    this issue, and, in fact, I will say it is part of what draws
    me to this potential opportunity, and I think it is part of the
    better part of Build Back Better, and that is to recognize that
    much of our social contract, as you describe it, was designed
    in the 1930s. It was designed for a labor contract or
    relationship between workers and their employers, which is
    quite different than what we have today.
        So if we take our UI system, for example, today the system
    is not providing the kind of safety net that it used to do.
    Many workers are not covered. I think it is less than half of
    workers are actually covered. The replacement rate has been
    falling. It was designed for short-term unemployment spells,
    and what we are observing in our most recent recessions is that
    unemployment spells are becoming longer and our UI system was
    not designed to help there. And yet we know that for both to
    help workers get through and for economic stability, UI plays
    an important part of that role.
        So I share your view. I look forward to working with you
    and others. I think broadening the base of workers that are
    covered is important. Whether that is with portable benefits,
    whether that is how we classify workers, there are many options
    that are on the table. And if confirmed, I would want to work
    with my team and work with all of you to find ways to what I
    will call modernize our UI system and modernize other parts of
    our safety net so that it reflects and honors the changing
    nature of work in our economy.
        Senator Warner. Well, thank you. Let me quickly get in my
    next question, which is: We want to make sure this economic
    recovery is equitable. Again, I think we took a major step
    forward. I want to thank so many of my colleagues on both sides
    of the aisle, particularly folks like Tim Scott and Mike Crapo.
    When we included the Jobs and Neighborhood Investment Act in
    the last COVID package, which puts $12 billion into CDFIs and
    MDIs--Senator Brown has been an big advocate of this,
    Congresswoman Fudge on the House side, making sure there was
    equitable actual to capital. We have got to make sure we
    implement that program right because we clearly saw Black and
    Brown businesses get disproportionately hurt by COVID, and
    implementing that program correctly is going to be really
    important.
        Another component is the fact that, you know, in the Great
    Recession we saw three-quarters of the jobs that were lost were
    jobs that only required a high school education. Coming
    forward, we are seeing that, you know, three-quarters of the
    jobs that are being created require a college-based education.
    We can attack that at the student debt level, but we can also
    attack it on incentives to have businesses start investing in
    human capital. You and I have talked about the idea of changing
    our tax and accounting treatment of businesses that invest in
    human capital, and you may want to take this for the record
    because my question--I have used up all my time, and I will not
    ask you give full remarks here. I think John Kennedy is waiting
    anxiously. But I hope you--you know, I know we have talked
    about this before, but I hope we can really continue this
    conversation on an equitable economic recovery.
        Ms. Rouse. I would be happy to do so. Thank you.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Warner, for respecting
    the clock.
        Senator Kennedy.
        Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Congresswoman, can you hear me OK?
        Ms. Fudge. Yes, I can hear you fine.
        Senator Kennedy. OK. First, it is an honor to meet you. I
    do not want to put too fine a point on this, but it is
    important to me personally to clear up the confusion that I
    have from your answer to one of Chairman Toomey's questions. I
    think it is accurate that you did say at one point that
    Republicans do not care about people of color, even a little
    bit. And I would like to know if you truly believe that.
        Ms. Fudge. Senator, thank you. I also said that if they do,
    I would be happy to listen. And I am certainly always willing
    to listen to not only my constituents but my colleagues. And I
    would suggest to you very, very strongly that there has never
    been a time in my entire public service career that I have not
    supported and worked with all people. And I commit to you I
    will do just that if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed to
    this position.
        Senator Kennedy. Yes, ma'am, but, again, not to put too
    fine a point on this, but I need a little more precise answer,
    so let me ask it a little more directly. Do you think
    Republicans care about people of color?
        Ms. Fudge. I do, some, yes.
        Senator Kennedy. Do you think most Republicans care about
    people of color?
        Ms. Fudge. Yes, I do.
        Senator Kennedy. OK. Thank you for that.
        Dean, can you hear me?
        Ms. Rouse. Yes, I can hear you. Thank you.
        Senator Kennedy. OK. It is an honor to meet you, too. I
    want to take you back to the month before the pandemic started,
    before we even knew about the coronavirus. What tax changes, if
    any, would you have made at that point in time given the fact
    that we know taxes impact the economy? Generally speaking, if
    you tax something, you get less of it.
        Ms. Rouse. Senator, I believe what you are referring to is
    the fact that before the pandemic struck or we identified the
    virus, the economy overall was doing relatively well. We were
    in an expansion. Unemployment rates were----
        Senator Kennedy. I am running out of time. What tax changes
    at that point would you have made to the economy?
        Ms. Rouse. So, Senator, well, one of the problems, though,
    with our economy at that time is we still had inequality that
    was--I would say ``record levels'' except for the fact that it
    has been exacerbated now. So I----
        Senator Kennedy. What tax changes would you--I am sorry I
    have to do this, because I have only got a minute and 30
    seconds. What tax changes at that time would you have made to
    the economy?
        Ms. Rouse. So, Senator, I would have been looking for ways
    and strategies for us to be addressing income inequality and
    wealth inequality which existed at that time.
        Senator Kennedy. How would you have done that?
        Ms. Rouse. Well, so I am an economist, and I study things.
    You know, I would want to look at a broad array of potential
    options, and if President Biden, when President Biden is ready
    to consider the options for paying for his investments, which
    we know will help improve and grow the economy, we will study
    and try to impose taxes in the most efficient way. But where
    individuals and corporations are paying their fair----
        Senator Kennedy. But what would be your--sorry for
    interrupting. I hate doing that. But we are limited by time.
    What are the options that you are talking about?
        Ms. Rouse. So we can look at our income tax rates. We can
    look at our corporate tax rate. We can look at ways to deal
    with wealth income tax----
        Senator Kennedy. Capital gains? Is capital gains on your
    list?
        Ms. Rouse. So capital gains are tricky because we know that
    the way that we currently treat capital gains also generates
    some inefficiencies. And so, you know, there are tricky ways
    that we can deal with capital gains. But I think that we should
    look at all of the options, absolutely, because we have wealth
    inequality in this country----
        Senator Kennedy. How about the death tax?
        Ms. Rouse. ----which is wide and getting wider.
        Senator Kennedy. In my last 9 seconds, how about the death
    tax?
        Ms. Rouse. So, Senator, I believe that we should be
    studying and considering all of these different options and to
    put together a portfolio which is most effective for addressing
    wealth and income inequality in this country.
        Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Kennedy.
        Senator Warren.
        Senator Warren. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And
    congratulations to both of you on your nominations. Thank you
    for being here with us.
        We live in an America today where a typical White family
    has eight times the wealth of a typical Black family and five
    times the wealth of a typical Latinx family gaps that have not
    budged in decades.
        Now, Dr. Rouse, you have done important research on racial
    and economic equity throughout your career. Could you tell us
    what it would mean for American families and for our economy if
    we pursued policies that closed the racial wealth gap
    substantially?
        Ms. Rouse. Senator Warren, I think we share a concern about
    the increasing wealth gap, and I think if we step back and
    first consider why wealth is important and why the racial
    wealth gap or any wealth gap is important, first wealth
    represents a cumulative impact of inherited resources, right?
    It is income over one's lifetime and expenses incurred. It is a
    reflection of family circumstances. It can be luck. But it also
    reflects obstacles in labor and financial markets.
        And so the Black-White wealth gap in particular can be
    attributed to a history of discriminatory policies such as
    redlining. And, importantly, this legacy continues to replicate
    itself generation to generation as those without accumulated
    wealth cannot pass it on to their children.
        The second part of why I believe it is important is that
    these differences are consequential, so wealth is protective
    and is important for well-being. So increased wealth has been
    associated with better health outcomes and better financial
    resilience. And during this pandemic, what we have seen is that
    those with greater wealth have more resources to fall upon when
    the economy slowed. So it provides a kind of self-insurance
    against economic adversity. It also provides access to housing
    in safe neighborhoods with good schools, which confers
    additional advantages on those who can afford such
    opportunities.
        And so closing the wealth gap is not about trying to
    literally take away, but it is try to ensure that everybody can
    participate in this economy.
        Senator Warren. Well, that is powerfully important. Thank
    you. And, you know, one big contributor to the wealth gap is
    student loan debt. Black and Latinx students borrow more money
    to go to college, and they have a harder time paying it off. If
    the President canceled up to $50,000 in student loan debt, as
    Leader Schumer and I have called for, it would close the racial
    wealth gap among people with student loan debt by about 25
    points. Canceling $50,000 in Federal student loan debt is the
    single biggest thing the Administration could do on its own to
    narrow the racial wealth gap. So I hope we will get a chance to
    work together to make this happen.
        I want to turn to another piece of the racial wealth gap,
    and that is home ownership. Owning a home is the number one way
    that middle-class families build wealth. But here is the ugly
    truth: The racial home ownership gap is now wider than it was
    when Congress outlawed housing discrimination back in the mid-
    1960s, and this difference can be traced directly to decades of
    racist Federal policies, including redlining that denied Black
    families the same path to home ownership that was available to
    White families. Since the Government created this problem, it
    seems only right that the Government should help fix it.
        So, Congresswoman Fudge, you have spent your career working
    to improve the lives of people in communities of color. If the
    Federal Government provided help with downpayment for families
    living in formerly redlined neighborhoods, would that make a
    difference in narrowing the racial home ownership gap and the
    racial wealth gap?
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much, Senator. It would make a
    huge difference because that is the biggest impediment to home
    ownership for communities of color, is the downpayment. We meet
    all of the other qualifications, and so it is like us being in
    a race with people who have already had a head start, because
    we do not have a mother or father to give us a downpayment. We
    do not have the wherewithal, the same kind of income, the same
    kind of access. And so it is like we are starting out of the
    box with somebody who was out ahead of us by 100 yards.
        Downpayment assistance is a major, major impediment, and if
    we can fix that, you would see a tremendous growth, because no
    matter what they say, home ownership amongst Blacks right now
    is the same as it was in 1968.
        Senator Warren. Thank you, Congresswoman. Very powerful on
    this. We need to take action before the pandemic widens the
    home ownership gap even more.
        It is time for an all-hands-on-deck approach to tackling
    the shameful racial disparities in our economy. Providing
    downpayment assistance is one powerful way to do that.
    Administratively canceling billions of dollars of student loan
    debt is another. I know you both care deeply about these
    issues, and I am looking forward to working with you in your
    new roles.
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Warren.
        Senator Schatz.
        Senator Schatz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ranking
    Member. Thank you to our nominees.
        I want to start with Congresswoman Fudge. We had a great
    conversation the other day, and I wanted to follow up on
    something I feel very passionately about. A straight line can
    be drawn from the racist local, State, and Federal segregation
    policies of the past to our zoning codes today. And so in
    addition to recommitting to fair housing enforcement, what
    should HUD do to encourage communities to abandon exclusionary
    zoning and implement policies that build accessible, equitable,
    and affordable housing?
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you, Senator, and I did very much enjoy
    our conversation. We have to get rid of this notion of ``not in
    my back yard.'' We are going to have to find ways for two
    reasons. One is housing has increased by 10 percent or more a
    year, and the average person that we are talking about that HUD
    serves are people who are not--their incomes are not rising at
    that level. So we are going to have to find some incentives for
    home builders, especially those that build multifamily housing,
    to assist us in these communities to change the zoning laws. I
    mean, some of these are very, very discriminatory, and I think
    that there are some legal options. But I also think we need to
    convince them that it is to their advantage economically, it is
    to their advantage to make sure that their communities know
    that it is important to them to get people off the street and
    to house people properly in safe, affordable neighborhoods.
        So I think it is a tough issue. Being a mayor, I understand
    it. But it is an educational issue, and we need to make sure
    that we educate them on what they are doing to their
    communities.
        Senator Schatz. Well, thank you for that, and I am looking
    forward to working with you on this. I would just add that part
    of this is the politics of cities and towns, and people who
    otherwise consider themselves rather progressive get rather
    regressive and are not reminded by people such as you and many
    of the people on the Banking Committee and in the Congress that
    exclusionary zoning, restrictive covenants, all of that is the
    great-grandson of Jim Crow. And we need to remember that legacy
    even as all these progressives were fighting for progressive
    causes except for housing next to their block. And that is
    something that we have to wrap our minds around not just from a
    policy perspective but from a community and communications
    perspective. And I am hoping that we can work together on that.
        Ms. Fudge. If I am confirmed, I will be talking with you
    about it all the time, Senator.
        Senator Schatz. Great. Last Congress, I introduced a CDBG-
    DR reform bill that would permanently authorize the program and
    get funding to communities faster, to help communities develop
    housing-focused community resilience plans. Do you support the
    permanent authorization of CDBG-DR?
        Ms. Fudge. Yes, very, very much, and I will be happy, if
    confirmed, to work with you on it. That is the only way we can
    get it out without jumping through a million hoops.
        Senator Schatz. Thank you very much. Hawaii has one of the
    worst housing shortages in the United States. We have San
    Francisco-New York prices and Midwestern salaries. And so do I
    have your commitment to work generally speaking on the housing
    shortage in Hawaii and specifically on the Native Hawaiian
    housing challenge and the Native Hawaiian housing block grant?
        Ms. Fudge. Very much. I am looking forward to working with
    you.
        Senator Schatz. OK. Dr. Rouse, there is a real sort of
    shift in thinking around the economics of climate action, and I
    think that this thinking is happening in academia. It is
    certainly happening in markets, as we see, and it is happening
    in the Congress. And I am wondering how you see your role in
    developing the data sets that sort of flesh out the case that
    climate action is not just not in conflict with an economic
    strategy but it is, in fact, our economic energy. And I am
    wondering how you are going to develop the data sets to clarify
    that so we do not have to have this sort of 1970's argument
    about whether we are going to protect the environment or
    develop the economy?
        Ms. Rouse. Senator, I can assure you that addressing our
    climate challenge is front and center of the Administration's
    agenda and of the CEA. First and foremost, we will have an
    economist, one of our members, and we are hiring another
    economist, should I be confirmed at least, that will focus on
    climate. And understanding the true costs of climate inaction,
    understanding the benefits of addressing climate and how we can
    do so efficiently are key to what I would like to accomplish at
    the CEA, should I be confirmed.
        Senator Schatz. Thank you.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Schatz.
        Senator Cortez Masto.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Congratulations on the
    nominations, both to you, Congresswoman Fudge, and Dr. Rouse.
        Dr. Rouse, let me start with you, and I appreciate both of
    you having conversations with me. But, Dr. Rouse, let me start
    with you, and as you can imagine, it is surrounding the
    hospitality industry and tourism industry because Nevada has
    been so hard hit. Our resort operators support our whole
    community. But as you and I discussed, when people are
    unwilling to travel during a pandemic, it has a devastating
    impact on our economy, both on the businesses and the workers
    that directly and indirectly support it.
        Let me just throw out some numbers here because I think it
    is important for us to understand. Before the pandemic, the
    travel and tourism industry was one of the largest sectors of
    the economy. In 2019, travel generated $1.1 trillion in
    spending and supported 15.8 million American jobs. But we know
    because of the COVID pandemic it has devastated this industry,
    and according to Oxford Economics, the U.S. lost $510 billion
    in travel spending and 4.5 million travel jobs in 2020.
        So my question to you is: Do you think that the industry,
    the hospitality, the travel/leisure industry is one area where
    Congress and the Administration should focus when crafting a
    stimulus bill?
        Ms. Rouse. Senator, I appreciated our conversation, and I
    share your concern about the travel and leisure industries. We
    know from the most recent job report that that is an area where
    we are seeing our most significant job losses and where we have
    been hardest hit by this pandemic. And as I have said before,
    getting through this pandemic as safely as possible, where we
    are helping individuals, helping the businesses that are viable
    get to the other side so that they can participate in the
    growth is very important. And I believe we should be targeting
    our assistance at those hardest-hit areas. I believe the
    President shares that priority.
        I would say that in the rescue plan there is additional aid
    for businesses, but I would look forward to talking with you
    and understanding what from your perspective and your
    constituents' perspective would be the most effective ways to
    ensure that we get the assistance to those businesses and those
    sectors that are the most heavily impacted by the pandemic.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Dr. Rouse, because I do
    look forward to working with you. Senator Cramer and I both
    introduced this bipartisan bill, the Hospitality and Commerce
    Job Recovery Act, and we have ideas after working with our
    industry locally and nationally about what can be done. That
    includes tax credits to be effective tools to incentivize
    spending and help certain sectors recover from an economic
    crisis. So I look forward to talking with you on that subject.
    Thank you.
        Congresswoman Fudge, let me associate myself with some of
    the comments that Senator Scott brought forward with respect to
    manufactured housing. He and I both cochaired a bill, the
    Manufactured Housing Modernization Act. It was passed into law.
    It was passed into law a year ago and to my understanding has
    still not been implemented by HUD. As a result of that, he and
    I sent a letter to then-Secretary Carson February 4th asking
    for the quick implementation of the new law, and really what it
    does is it issues guidance for the inclusion of manufactured
    housing in States and local governments' consolidated plan. So
    I would look forward to working with you on the implementation
    of that particular law, but I only have so much. Let me talk
    about one other area that we all have been addressing, which is
    the affordable housing crisis.
        In Nevada and across the country, it is so prevalent. One
    area, though, is youth homelessness. Nevada is third in the
    Nation for the total number of unaccompanied youth experiencing
    homelessness, and the highest rate of unsheltered,
    unaccompanied homeless youth. And I know this is an area that
    is important for you as well. What ideas do you have to work
    with other agencies to reduce youth homelessness? And what can
    HUD be doing as well?
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much, Senator, and I did enjoy
    our conversation. Thank you.
        Certainly if I am confirmed, one of the things that we need
    to address right away is youth who are aging out of the foster
    care system. As soon as they age out, they have no place to go.
    So HUD has to start to put in place programs to allow them to
    stay in public housing at least until we can get them on their
    feet. But right now it is a very difficult situation with the
    numbers of young people who are, as you say, unattended, but
    the majority of them are foster children. So we need a program
    for foster youth, and that is something that I would be happy
    to work with you on, should I be confirmed.
        Senator Cortez Masto. I look forward to it. Thank you
    again.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Cortez Masto.
        Senator Smith.
        Senator Smith. Well, thank you so much, Chair Toomey and
    Chair-to-be Brown. And welcome to our nominees. You both bring
    such distinguished records and, I know, a true spirit of public
    service. So I am really grateful for the conversations that I
    was able to have with both of you over the last couple of
    weeks, and I very much look forward to supporting you.
        We are in the midst of the worst public health crisis and
    economic crisis together colliding in our country that we have,
    in my knowledge, ever lived through. But I really appreciate
    how both of you are talking about how we need to navigate
    through this crisis, but also focus on how we can expand on the
    ingenuity and the innovation and the amazing work of American
    workers to be able to build our economy forward.
        Dr. Rouse, I want to start with you. I really appreciated
    our conversation and your thoughtfulness and your
    reasonableness, and I appreciate especially how you talk about
    following the data, not just the averages but the entire scope
    of data that will help us understand how people are doing at
    the extremes of our economy as well as how people on the
    average are doing. And this gets to a question that Senator
    Warren was raising that I think is so important. It is the cost
    of inequality to our economy. And Elizabeth touched on this
    with regard to home ownership, but I want to ask you about the
    challenges to our economy because of lack of access to capital
    for communities of color, Black, Brown, and indigenous
    communities, and especially the role that CDFIs and Native
    CDFIs can play in expanding access to capital, the impact that
    could have on inequality and getting our economy really moving
    again.
        Ms. Rouse. Thank you, Senator. You are raising a very
    important issue. As we think about having a shared recovery and
    ensuring that it is not just the average that does well but
    everywhere, and the diversity, it is not--I want to just
    emphasize the geographic diversity and what happens in our
    rural areas in particular and for our hardest-hit areas is an
    important part of that mosaic.
        We know that stimulating economic activity is the best way
    to generate employment for rural areas and, therefore, economic
    security and livelihood, and to ensure that the young people
    want to stay in those areas--not that people have to be forced
    to stay where they do not want to stay, but that they have an
    incentive to stay and not to flee to urban areas in order to
    find a job.
        So if we want to bring back vibrancy to all of the areas of
    the U.S., we have to ensure that the businesses and the smaller
    businesses have access to capital so they can get started; and,
    importantly, during a downturn such as this, that they have
    access to capital so they can thrive during economic activity
    and a bridge to make sure that they ensure and they survive to
    the other side. So I believe this is an important part of our
    strategy.
        Senator Smith. I appreciate that. And when you and I met,
    we talked about what this could look like in Indian country and
    the United States, and I want to reextend my invitation to have
    you come to Minnesota, either virtually or in person, so that
    we can have some conversations about what that would mean in
    terms of access to capital and economic development in tribal
    lands.
        Let me turn to Representative Fudge just to carry on this
    theme. I so appreciate you and your leadership, and I also just
    want to note that as a mayor, I think that mayors--I know a
    little bit about mayors. No problem is too big or too small for
    a mayor to focus on, and, also, most problems, when you are a
    mayor, are not Republican or Democratic problems. They are
    problems about whether people's lives work or not. I believe
    that you will bring that same spirit to housing and urban
    development, so I want to thank you.
        I want to ask a follow-up specifically on the conversation
    that you and I also had about the shortage of housing on tribal
    lands. I would ask if you could just comment briefly on
    NAHASDA, which is the most important housing program for Indian
    country and what role you see that can play in addressing the
    housing shortage in tribal communities.
        Ms. Fudge. Well, thank you very, very much, and thank you
    for taking the time to speak with me. NAHASDA is something that
    was brought up to me by most of the Native American
    stakeholders that I have already spoken with. It is something
    that I have guaranteed them that I am going to look into as
    quickly as possible. And if I am confirmed, as soon as I can
    get in the office and talk to the staff and figure out what is
    going on with it, I promise that I will get back with you as
    well as I promised them that I would get back with them, and I
    intend to do just that.
        Senator Smith. Thank you very much.
        And, Mr. Chairman, I have a question for the record which I
    will submit for Representative Fudge about the importance of
    maintenance and safety needs in public housing. This relates to
    the tragic event in Minnesota with a terrible fire and the lack
    of sprinkler systems. You can get back to me on that,
    Representative Fudge.
        Ms. Fudge. Thank you.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Smith.
        It is my understanding that Senator Van Hollen may be
    attempting to log on, but he has not been able to do so yet.
        Senator Brown, if you had a closing comment you wanted to
    make, maybe you could make that statement now, and we could
    give a little bit more time for Senator Van Hollen to join us
    in case he is able to do so.
        Senator Brown. I would. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank
    you again to my friend Congresswoman Fudge, and, Dr. Rouse,
    thank you.
        Let me say in response to the questions from a number of my
    colleagues that it is pretty tough--to Congresswoman Fudge, it
    is pretty tough to take a lecture on political speech from
    Members of a party whose leader just 3 weeks ago literally
    incited a violent insurrection with his words. The real
    rhetoric we should be worried about are the lies and the
    conspiracy theories that do more than hurt feelings. They
    incite violence, they undermine our democracy.
        I know Senator Toomey at least has pushed back against the
    former President's dangerous lies about our election. I
    appreciate his candor and his courage. I wish others of our
    colleagues on this Committee and in the Senate would show the
    same kind of courage.
        Thanks to Congresswoman Fudge, thanks to Dean Rouse, Dr.
    Rouse, for your thoughtful answers. I am excited to work with
    you. This hearing today made me even more excited about
    assuming the chairmanship of this Committee. I appreciated
    Congresswoman Fudge's comments that these are extraordinary
    times that require extraordinary action. What you two will do
    in the next several years, I would assume, will be the most
    important things you have ever done in your lives. I consider
    my job to be that in the few years ahead. Your service to our
    country is both admirable and absolutely crucial.
        So thank you, Chairman Toomey, and thanks to our two
    witnesses.
        Senator Toomey. Thank you, Senator Brown. Let me just
    briefly observe I appreciate the conversation today. I am
    grateful to the two witnesses for their willingness to serve
    our country. I will say I think I heard bipartisan discussion
    about the fact that we are in a different place in our economy
    today than we were back in March, and today we have got people
    who are certainly suffering from very terrible circumstances.
    But it is a much more targeted group of folks than the sort of
    universal catastrophe we faced in March, and so I hope that as
    we develop further responses, it will reflect that reality.
        So this concludes the question-and-answer portion of
    today's hearing. Prior to adjourning, I do have some final
    housekeeping announcements. Before I do that, again, let me
    thank both of our witnesses, our nominees, for your testimony
    and for your willingness to serve.
        For Senators, all follow-on questions for the record must
    be submitted by 5 p.m. Saturday, January 30th. That is 5 p.m.
    Saturday, January 30th. And for our witnesses, I do ask you to
    respond to written questions that you receive by noon Monday,
    February 1st. I know that is a very tight timeframe, but your
    prompt responses will facilitate this Committee quickly
    processing your nominations.
        With that, this hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 12:12 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
        [Prepared statements, biographical sketches of nominees,
    responses to written questions, and additional material
    supplied for the record follow:]
                  PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR SHERROD BROWN
        Today we consider the nominations of two distinguished public
    servants, my Congresswoman--Marcia Fudge to lead the Department of
    Housing and Urban Development--and Dr. Cecilia Rouse to lead the
    Council of Economic Advisors.
        Most of us have met with them. We are impressed with their
    knowledge, their commitment, and their passion to serve, especially
    during the current public health and economic crisis. Thank you,
    Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse.
        Our economy is at a crossroads. COVID-19 infections are up, new
    unemployment claims continue to rise, and millions of families are
    behind on their bills--on rent, on utilities, on mortgage payments.
        We face a choice: Will we finally marshal all of our country's vast
    resources and talent to meet this moment? Will we help all the families
    that desperately need it, help our struggling small businesses survive,
    and get Americans vaccinated and back to school and back to work and
    back to seeing their grandparents and grandchildren?
        Or, will we sit back and watch as millions of families face the
    threat of eviction, as people drain meager savings account or head to
    payday lenders, as job losses become permanent, and racial and economic
    inequality get worse?
        President Biden nominated Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse to
    positions that will be essential to determining which path we take,
    during this pandemic and in the years ahead.
        And I can think of no one better to lead us out of this pandemic
    and into the future than the two women before us today.
        After a year when Black Americans have endured so many painful
    reminders of the yawning gap between the promise of our founding
    ideals, and our failure to make that promise real for everyone, two
    Black women will take leading roles in our economic recovery.
        This matters on so many levels. It's important for our future that
    little girls, including Black and brown girls, see themselves in our
    leaders, from the Vice President to our economic leaders.
        And it matters because of the perspectives and the life experiences
    these two women--these two Black women--bring to these jobs.
        They both have ties to Ohio--one a daughter of Cleveland, of the
    industrial Midwest, and the other with roots deep into the Mahoning
    Valley and Youngstown.
        And Congresswoman Fudge and Dr. Rouse bring a real understanding of
    the people who make this country work--all people--to these jobs.
        If confirmed, Congresswoman Fudge will lead an agency that supports
    families and communities, provides housing and safety to people
    experiencing homelessness from this pandemic, and helps communities
    rebuild.
        Today, HUD is grappling with a housing market where millions of
    families find it harder and harder to afford a decent home. The cost of
    housing is up, wages are flat, and so many workers have trouble making
    rent every month without crippling stress, or turning to predatory
    loans. And the dream of home ownership is increasingly out of reach.
        None of this started with COVID-19. The affordable housing crisis
    is the product of decades of conscious policy decisions--by both
    Government and corporations. This pandemic has exposed what millions of
    families in this country already knew--that too many people are
    struggling to get by.
        Before the U.S. had its first case of COVID-19, a quarter of all
    renters were already paying more than half their income for housing,
    and the Black home ownership rate was nearly as low as it was in 1968,
    when housing discrimination was legal.
        HUD should play an essential role in fixing that--in expanding
    opportunity to every zip code, and allowing more families to have the
    peace of mind and the economic security of a safe home they can afford.
        Congresswoman Fudge will work to help protect our kids from lead
    poisoning, to restore the promise of fair housing, and to give
    communities the help and resources they need to thrive.
        All of this is a tall order, but it is one I know she is poised to
    meet. And she brings to the job the unique and critical experience of
    serving as mayor for the kind of community that is either overlooked,
    or outright preyed upon, by Wall Street and big investors.
        We cannot write off entire swaths of the country--whether it's a
    coal town or an historic industrial city, whether it's farm country or
    an urban neighborhood. This champion of Cleveland understands that.
        The Council of Economic Advisors will also play an integral role
    both in helping our economy recover and in building a better system out
    of this pandemic. And Dr. Rouse is exactly who we need at the helm. If
    confirmed, she will help direct our Nation's economic policy to put
    Americans back to work, at better jobs with higher wages.
        Millions of people are still out of work, and those job losses have
    disproportionately fallen on low-wage workers, Black and brown workers,
    and women. At the same time, essential workers are risking their health
    to go to work, while corporations still refuse to pay them a living
    wage.
        It's all part of the corporate business model that treats American
    workers as expendable, instead of as essential to our country's
    success. For decades, workers' wages have remained stagnant while CEO
    pay has skyrocketed. ``Building Back Better'' means taking on that
    system, and creating an economy with a growing, thriving middle class.
        This won't be the first time Dr. Rouse has helped us weather a
    crisis--she served on the Council of Economic Advisors in 2009, during
    the Great Recession.
        Dr. Rouse, has spent her career focusing on workers and ensuring
    that this economy works for everyone. Her expertise and leadership will
    guide this Administration and Congress in formulating the policies that
    can help revive our economy so that it works for all Americans.
        And both she and Congresswoman Fudge will look at how we can
    protect families from climate change, while seizing opportunities to
    create new jobs, advance environmental justice, and grow new
    industries. Making our homes and communities more energy efficient
    isn't just necessary for our future--it's the kind of investment that
    will put people to work at jobs that can't be outsourced, and will spur
    new economic growth.
        We know we face great challenges. These are extraordinary times
    that call for us to aim higher and think bigger, to deliver real
    results that make a difference in people's lives.
        I look forward to hearing how each of you will help chart the
    course out of this pandemic and build a brighter future in the years
    ahead.
        I have a number of letters of support that I would ask unanimous
    support to submit for the record.
                                     ______

                     PREPARED STATEMENT OF MARCIA L. FUDGE
          To Be Secretary, Department of Housing and Urban Development
                                January 28, 2021
        I thank President Biden for nominating me to serve as the 18th
    Secretary of Housing and Urban Development and will do everything
    possible to ensure that every American has a roof over their head.
        The housing issues our Nation faces are real, varied, and touch all
    of us. I am a strong believer in the Department's programs and its
    mission--especially with regard to serving those who face the greatest
    need.
        Senators, I have dedicated my entire life to public service and to
    working to help low-income families, seniors, and communities. I
    believe I am up to the challenge that is before me.
        As mayor of Warrensville Heights, Ohio I saw firsthand the need for
    economic development and affordable housing. We improved the city's tax
    base and expanded affordable housing opportunities. As a Member of
    Congress, I tackled the unique challenges of my district, working with
    my delegation and across the aisle.
        Our housing issues do not fit into a cookie-cutter mold--and I know
    that the same is true in each of your States. We need policies and
    programs that can adapt to meet your unique housing challenges, and I
    would very much like to work with each of you to find the right answers
    for your States.
        It bears mentioning, particularly in this moment of crisis, that
    HUD--perhaps more than any other department--exists to serve the most
    vulnerable people in America. That mandate matters a great deal to me.
    It is consistent with my own values, and it is precisely what has
    always motivated me to service.
        It's estimated that, on any given night in 2019, more than half a
    million people experienced homelessness in America. That's a
    devastating statistic--even before you consider the reality of what
    COVID-19 has done to exacerbate the crisis.
        According to one study, 21 million Americans currently pay more
    than 30 percent of their income on housing. Because of lost income and
    unemployment due to COVID, 1 in 5 renters and 1 in 10 homeowners with a
    mortgage are behind on their housing payments.
        Native housing is also in a crisis, with far too many families
    living in substandard and crowded housing conditions on reservations.
        Although Congress provided $25 billion in rental assistance and the
    CDC extended the eviction moratorium, this is not enough at a time when
    tens of millions of Americans are behind on rent; almost 3 million
    homeowners are currently in forbearance; and another 800,000 borrowers
    are delinquent.
        Much like COVID-19, the housing crisis isn't isolated by geography.
    It is the daily reality for tens of millions of our fellow Americans--
    people in blue States and red States, in cities and small towns.
        My first priority as Secretary would be to alleviate that crisis
    and get people the support they need to come back from the edge.
        We need to expand resources for HUD's programs to people who are
    eligible. Today, according to a 2017 study, only 1 out of 5 eligible
    households receive housing assistance.
        We need to deliver on the Administration's commitments on improving
    the quality, safety, and accessibility of affordable housing and
    building 1.5 million new affordable homes.
        We need to make the dream of home ownership--and the security and
    wealth creation that comes with it--a reality for more Americans. That
    will require us to end discriminatory practices in the housing market,
    and ensure that our fair housing rules are doing what they are supposed
    to do: opening the door for families, especially families of color who
    have been systematically kept out in the cold across generations, to
    buy homes and punch their ticket to the middle class.
        There are so many issues we need to come together to address--
    everything from bringing capital back to disinvested communities, to
    increasing energy efficiency in housing, to dealing with the dangers of
    lead-based paint, to taking on our crisis of homelessness with
    compassion and resolve.
        These are only some of the challenges--and I know that many of you
    have additional priorities as well. These problems are urgent, but they
    are not beyond our capacity to solve.
        The only way we will meet them is by working together. And to that
    end, I pledge this: if I have the honor of being confirmed, I will be
    accessible to you, I will listen to you, and I will be a partner to you
    to solve the housing challenges your constituents are facing back home.
        I expect you to hold me accountable along the way--I welcome that
    accountability.
        And I will always strive to be a transparent and good-faith partner
    as we work together to do the vitally important work we're all here to
    do: helping families in need.
        Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

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                     PREPARED STATEMENT OF CECILIA E. ROUSE
                   To Be Chair, Council of Economic Advisers
                                January 28, 2021
        Chairman Crapo, incoming Chairman Brown, incoming Ranking Member
    Toomey, and Members of the Committee, it is an honor to appear before
    you.
        My path here today began in the early 1980s, during what was--at
    the time--one of the worst spikes in unemployment our country had
    experienced since the 1930s.
        I was a freshman in college, taking my first economics class. I was
    there because my wise mother had told me to take an econ class. But it
    was really unemployment that piqued my interest, when I could see how
    classroom material could be applied to the world outside and the
    millions who were experiencing in real time the effects of a struggling
    economy.
        I was drawn to the discipline because I wanted to know why this was
    happening. Why had jobs disappeared--and what could be done to bring
    them back? I focused my work on the labor market, and in particular on
    the impact of education on people's job prospects, ways to tear down
    barriers to job growth, and policies to make it possible for more
    people to achieve long-lasting economic security. Since then, I have
    had the honor of working on these important issues in academia and the
    public sector.
        Today our country is living through the worst economic crisis since
    the Great Depression. Millions of families have had their lives turned
    upside down, the economic security they've worked so hard to build
    eroded almost overnight by the economic impact of the pandemic. Far too
    many have slipped through our frayed safety net into hardship and
    hopelessness. And structural inequities that have always existed within
    our economy have not just been exposed, but exacerbated, their impact
    more devastating than ever before.
        We must take action to shepherd our Nation's economy back onto
    solid footing. But as deeply distressing as this pandemic and economic
    fallout have been, it is also an opportunity to rebuild the economy
    better than it was before--making it work for everyone by increasing
    the availability of fulfilling jobs and leaving no one vulnerable to
    falling through the cracks.
        President Biden and Vice President Harris have made these the core
    values of their Build Back Better agenda. If confirmed, my job will be
    to provide them with objective economic guidance--recommendations
    rooted in fact and evidence--to help them achieve those important
    goals.
        As important as it is for the CEA to interpret and translate data
    and academic research, it is also vital that we utilize the right data.
    Too often economists focus on average outcomes, instead of examining a
    range of outcomes. As a result, our analyses tell us about average
    economic growth and the middle of the distribution--but as our economy
    grows more and more unequal, that analysis fails to capture the
    experience of the many people who are left behind, particularly people
    of color. Therefore, one of my priorities as Chair will be to try to
    understand how policies will impact all those in our country as we
    strive to ensure the economy works for everyone.
        Equally important is having analysis conducted by economists who
    specialize in a variety of fields. If confirmed, I will staff the CEA
    with a well-rounded team ready to address the incredible breadth of
    challenges we face.
        To close, I am honored to be nominated for this position. It would
    allow me to work on issues close to my heart and so critical in this
    current crisis. A good-paying, fulfilling job has always been the key
    to building economic security. Today, we are seeing the immense pain
    caused when our economy fails to fulfill that promise. But I believe
    there is much we can do to strengthen the position of everyone across
    this incredible country of ours.
        If confirmed I will work closely with you on these important
    priorities. And I will do so regardless of your party affiliation, your
    approach to various policies, or your opinion of the Administration's
    efforts. Economists are trained to gather and analyze information and
    consider innovative perspectives. That is how I will approach this job.
    And my door will always be open.
        With that, I am happy to take your questions.

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            RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF CHAIRMAN CRAPO
                          FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE

    Q.1. The Trump administration recognized that land-use
    restrictions and other regulatory barriers reduce and delay
    development, increase construction costs, and limit the supply
    of affordable homes. They launched an interagency council to
    assess and eliminate such barriers--the most recent in many
    efforts over the years, by both Democratic and Republican
    administrations, to identify and reduce restrictive zoning and
    unnecessary housing regulations. More recently, HUD published a
    final report laying out ways in which the Federal Government
    can encourage and support jurisdictions to increase housing
    supply across income levels.
        To break down barriers to affordable housing development,
    will you continue this work to address land-use restrictions
    and other regulatory barriers?

    A.1. As a former Mayor, I know that land-use regulations and
    most regulatory barriers are a matter of State and local
    policy. HUD and other Federal agencies can play a role in
    providing research and best practices for State and local
    governments to consider when they are exploring ways to reduce
    the costs and barriers that prevent the development of
    affordable housing. We can also look at how Federal programs
    and requirements contribute to increasing the costs or
    preventing the development of affordable housing and see if
    there are better ways to balance the goals of those other
    programs and rules against the need for affordable housing. If
    confirmed, I look forward to learning more about the work HUD
    has supported in the past and building off that work.

    Q.2. The HUD-Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing (HUD-VASH)
    program combines HUD Housing Choice Voucher (HCV) rental
    assistance with clinical services and case management provided
    by the Veterans Affairs Department. The HUD-VASH program plays
    a significant role in our Nation's efforts to end veterans'
    homelessness.
        If confirmed, will you continue to support this program and
    work with members to assist the unique needs of our veterans?

    A.2. Yes. The HUD-VASH program's success is rooted in a strong
    HUD and VA partnership both in Washington, DC, and through
    local collaborative efforts throughout the Nation. If
    confirmed, I will work with the VA to continue to support this
    program and work with members to ensure that the program
    continues to meet the needs of our homeless veterans.
                                    ------

            RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR BROWN
                          FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE

    Q.1. Between 2009 and 2018, HUD staffing fell by 19 percent.
    For the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity--the
    office charged with overseeing Fair Housing Act compliance--
    staff has declined more than 30 percent. How will you work to
    rebuild HUD's workforce so that it can fulfill its mission?

    A.1. Recruiting and retaining the best talent is imperative to
    rebuilding HUD's workforce and fulfilling its mission. The
    Office of Administration has taken immediate steps to increase
    HUD's hiring capacity, almost doubling hiring from 2019 to
    2020.
        Simultaneously, the Office of Administration has also begun
    to redesign the hiring process, developing a new hiring
    blueprint that reduced the number of steps to hire a new
    employee by up to 75 percent. This blueprint provides the
    roadmap for HUD to create the best-in-class hiring process and
    outcomes in the Federal Government. The Office of
    Administration is focused on continuing these efforts to
    improve not only the Department's hiring capability, but the
    capability to recruit, train, and retain a strong, stable
    workforce. The Office of Administration will also closely
    assess, and support staffing needs in important HUD offices
    like the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, where
    the historical data shows above average staffing attrition.

    Q.2. Where have you excelled in hiring and promoting people of
    color in your Congressional office and in previous jobs?

    A.2. Something I pride myself on is not just hiring a diverse
    staff but elevating and promoting them accordingly.
    Understanding that I represent a diverse community, it has
    always been important to me that my staff reflects the
    demographic of my constituents. In addition to diverse hiring
    practices, I have been able to cultivate teams where diversity
    is reflected amongst leadership positions in my offices. Each
    of my Chiefs of Staff over the last 12 years have been Black
    women. Three of my six Legislative Directors have been people
    of color, and four of my Legislative Assistants were people of
    color that began their service as interns in my office and were
    promoted over time. I not only look forward to promoting staff
    internally, but, when the time comes, assisting them to the
    best of my ability in their next venture.

    Q.3. In August 2011, President Obama issued an Executive order
    establishing a coordinated, governmentwide initiative to
    promote diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in the Federal
    workforce. The Executive order reads, in part, that ``Attaining
    a diverse, qualified workforce is one of the cornerstones of
    the merit-based civil service . . . To realize more fully the
    goal of using the talents of all segments of society, the
    Federal Government must continue to challenge itself to enhance
    its ability to recruit, hire, promote, and retain a more
    diverse workforce. Further, the Federal Government must create
    a culture that encourages collaboration, flexibility, and
    fairness to enable individuals to participate to their full
    potential.'' The order required each agency to establish an
    agency-specific diversity, equity, and inclusion strategic plan
    with specific objectives.
        Please describe your commitment to diverse hiring at HUD.
    Will you establish a HUD-specific diversity, equity, and
    inclusion strategic plan with specific objectives?

    A.3. I am fully committed to establishing a diverse workforce
    at HUD. I will work with HUD's Office of Departmental Equal
    Employment Opportunity and the Office of Administration to
    promote equal opportunity and identify and eliminate any
    discriminatory practices and policies. I will ensure that we
    have a diversified workforce through systematic training of HUD
    employees, monitoring our employment policies for any
    discriminatory impact, and ensuring that our senior leadership
    are evaluated in terms of their commitments to diversity,
    equity, and inclusion. I will also work diligently in
    furtherance of President Biden's instructions to the head of
    each agency, including Executive Order 13985 on ``Advancing
    Racial Equity and Support for Underserved Communities Through
    the Federal Government'' and Executive Order 13988 on
    ``Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of
    Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation''.

    Q.4. Will you commit to establishing a system for reporting
    regularly on HUD's progress in implementing an agency-specific
    diversity, equity, and inclusion strategic plan and in meeting
    the objectives under the plan?

    A.4. I will ensure HUD employment practices are monitored and
    evaluated on the basis of diversity, equity, and inclusion, and
    I will direct HUD's Director of the Office of Departmental
    Equal Employment Opportunity and HUD's head of Administration
    to meet regularly with my office to report on our diversity,
    equity, and inclusion strategic plan. I will review HUD's
    current Inclusive Diversity Strategic plan and ask HUD's Office
    of Diversity and Inclusion to revise it to align with the
    vision laid out by President Biden and my track record.

    Q.5. Will you commit to implementing and requiring diversity,
    equity, and inclusion training for all employees within your
    purview? What is your plan for implementing these trainings?

    A.5. I will direct leadership of the Office of Departmental
    Equal Employment Opportunity, the Office of Administration, and
    the Office of General Counsel to work with HUD's Office of
    Diversity & Inclusion to deliver diversity-oriented events and
    activities, specifically, DEI trainings and cross-cultural
    workshops for the entire workforce.

    Q.6. Will you commit to implementing and requiring implicit
    bias training for managers within your purview? What is your
    plan for implementing these trainings?

    A.6. Yes, I will. And it is my understanding that HUD has begun
    these trainings and plans to virtually host implicit bias
    training to staff throughout headquarters and field offices. I
    will direct leadership of the Office of Departmental Equal
    Employment Opportunity, the Office of Administration, and the
    Office of General Counsel to analyze the content of these
    trainings and continue to strengthen them during my tenure at
    HUD.

    Q.7. Please list at least 3 specific priorities for advancing
    racial equity, diversity, and inclusion at HUD. What specific
    measures will you use to evaluate success in these areas, and
    over what period of time?

    A.7. As I stated in my testimony, advancing racial equity,
    diversity, and inclusion is a top priority for me in all things
    including as, if confirmed, HUD secretary.
        First, I will help reenergize staff morale and internal
    dedication to DEI efforts. This will begin immediately through
    my senior leadership team and will continue throughout my
    tenure as I evaluate what is currently in place and work with
    HUD staff to strengthen these efforts.
        Second, I will reinvigorate HUD's enforcement of the Fair
    Housing Act to combat discriminatory practices that prevent too
    many people from having equal access to housing. This will
    include addressing the previous Administration's rules
    regarding Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing and disparate
    impact. President Biden's Executive orders direct HUD to
    evaluate the impact of both rules and the appropriate measures
    to take in response as swiftly as is practicable, and I would
    take immediate steps to do so. I will also direct HUD's Office
    of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity to enforce the Fair
    Housing Act in a manner consistent with the President's
    directive to eliminate bias in the housing market and ensure
    equal housing opportunities for all.
        Finally, we know that there are a disproportionate number
    of people of color, people with disabilities, and LGBTQ people
    among those experiencing homelessness. I am committed to
    advancing policies and practices that reduce homelessness among
    this population in all aspects of our work over the course of
    my tenure at HUD.
        It will take both an internal and external approach to
    advancing DEI related to HUD's mission and I am committed to
    both.

    Q.8. Please describe how you plan to work with and engage the
    housing and financial services industries to serve Black,
    Indigenous, and People of Color (BIPOC) and dismantle systemic
    racism's impact in those sectors. How, specifically, will you
    hold the industry accountable on these issues? How will you
    accelerate private sector efforts to achieve more inclusive
    leadership?

    A.8. The dismantling of decades of racist housing policy and
    business practices will require intention, coordination, and
    serious commitment from inside the Federal Government and from
    the financial services and real estate industries. During my
    hearing I said that this Nation has ``failed to have a holistic
    approach to housing.'' I recognize that housing is a necessity
    for every single American and a critical part of our Nation's
    infrastructure, and HUD is central to that. We have seen
    decades of disinvestment in our housing stock, including in our
    State of Ohio and the 44105 Zip code, and a direct connection
    of that disinvestment to formerly redlined and highly
    segregated areas where Black people live and where poverty is
    concentrated. I plan to work with key housing agencies inside
    the Government on a unified strategy to ensure lenders and
    financial institutions are not leaving BIPOC communities behind
    because of the legacy of racist business practices that have
    excluded these groups for generations. HUD should be included
    in the housing finance reform debate, because we have one
    housing finance system that should be serving all the people
    and the FHA insurance program is the largest provider of
    mortgage credit for BIPOC communities, first time homebuyers,
    and LMI households. I will also work with State and local
    housing agencies who play a critical role in delivering housing
    programs and services, as well as with mayors and governors
    with focus on those communities we know have been inadequately
    invested in. Private industry must be a part of the solution
    because they have been deeply involved in creating the problem.
    After George Floyd was killed this past summer many industry
    leaders, including the Business Roundtable, made strong
    statements and commitments about dismantling racism, changing
    business practices and valuing diversity, equity, and
    inclusion. I intend to hold them accountable to their words
    through their actions.

    Q.9. How do you plan on incorporating the views and work of the
    Office of Diversity and Inclusion across the Department?

    A.9. I will work with my senior leadership team to explore ways
    to reenergize the Office of Diversity and Inclusion and ensure
    that its mission is embedded in all offices and at all levels
    of the agency. It is important that all staff understand that
    HUD leadership is committed to a healthy work environment that
    values diverse life experiences and viewpoints. My team and I
    will work with ODI to deliver innovative trainings, strengthen
    recruitment practices, and implement best practices for overall
    staff management, which includes creating an open work
    environment where people at every level have a voice in the
    development of HUD programs and policies. My approach is to
    hear from everyone--that's what makes us all grow stronger,
    together, and I intend to bring that approach to HUD.

    Q.10. HUD has advisory councils and committees comprised of
    industry leaders, academics, nonprofits, and other
    stakeholders. They serve as volunteers but have significant
    influence being appointed by and working closely with you. How
    will HUD include more diverse advisors on these councils and
    committees, and over what period of time?

    A.10. If confirmed, I will work diligently to seek out diverse
    participants in HUD's councils and committees, and will do so
    in light of President Biden's instructions to the head of each
    agency, including Executive Order 13985 on ``Advancing Racial
    Equity and Support for Underserved Communities Through the
    Federal Government'' and Executive Order 13988 on ``Preventing
    and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or
    Sexual Orientation''.

    Q.11. A department's budget reflects its values and goals. How
    do you plan to allocate and sufficiently resource internal and
    external efforts to advance DEI as part of the agency's annual
    budget process? How will you ensure sufficient financial
    support for the agency-specific diversity, equity, and
    inclusion strategic plan to ensure you are able to meet the
    objectives established under that plan in a reasonable time
    period?

    A.11. Diversity, equity, and inclusion are at the core of HUD's
    mission--to create strong, sustainable, inclusive communities
    and quality affordable homes for all. If confirmed, I will
    request sufficient staff resources so that the Department can
    fully execute its mission and partner with our grantees to
    enhance their capacity. I will have a DEI plan for the
    Department and hold leaders across the agency accountable for
    meeting it. Without adequate resources, for example, the
    Department cannot effectively enforce fair housing law and
    ensure that tenants are in safe, sanitary, and decent housing.
    As I said in my testimony, we need to expand resources for
    HUD's rental assistance and home ownership programs to all
    people who are eligible. Too often those who experience the
    worst outcomes from housing instability are people of color.
    Black, Latino, Native American, and Asian people are all over-
    represented among people experiencing homelessness. For
    example, HUD data indicates that 40 percent of people
    experiencing homelessness are Black, when Black people only
    make up 13 percent of the general population. Deepening the
    resources available to serve more eligible people is an
    investment in diverse, equitable, and inclusive communities.
    And within the resources that Congress provides, I look forward
    to working with you and other partners to find ways that we can
    prioritize and expand diversity, equity, and inclusion. And
    finally, if confirmed, if there are statutory improvements
    required to advance these aims, I will rely on your partnership
    to change the laws where appropriate.

    Q.12. Please describe how you view the role of the Secretary of
    the Department of Housing and Urban Development in
    appropriately serving BIPOC. How do you view HUD's role in
    furthering racial equity?

    A.12. As I stated in my testimony, HUD and its programs are
    central to furthering racial equity, particularly for people
    with low- and moderate-incomes. Home ownership is a key ticket
    to the middle class but has historically been denied to BIPOC
    because of racism and discrimination. I plan to evaluate new
    ways HUD can help BIPOC and other marginalized populations
    afford to purchase a home and build family wealth, including
    through encouraging lenders to expand their reach into BIPOC
    communities.
        Renters should also have the opportunity to grow their
    incomes and build savings. I, like the President, am committed
    to expanding access to Federal rental assistance and improving
    program implementation so that people have true choice in where
    they live. Too often BIPOC who receive assistance are
    segregated into communities that have experienced under or
    disinvestment by local leaders. I am committed to investing in
    local communities so that all people have access to strong
    schools, healthy housing, and strong community support
    services.

    Q.13. What are some short- and long-term strategies for
    addressing housing inequality and the racial and ethnic home
    ownership gap that you will pursue at HUD?

    A.13. Reducing the racial home ownership and wealth gaps that
    have persisted for decades will be a priority if I am
    confirmed. Facts will be our guide, and I will collect and
    review the evidence and work to remove harmful legacy policies
    that have contributed to the gaps. Short term, I will ensure
    that the FHA continues to be a consistent source of credit
    supporting home ownership for BIPOC households, and work across
    the housing system to promote and advocate for policy changes
    that help break down barriers to help more families purchase
    their first home. I also want to see a healthier flow of
    financing to low-cost housing markets, like those in and around
    Cleveland, where smaller mortgage loans could help families get
    started on the path to home ownership. One way to do that will
    be to expand the footprint of lending institutions that do FHA
    lending, especially large national and regional banks that have
    pulled back in recent years. Strengthening HUD's housing
    counseling network and programs to help renters who are ready
    to become homeowners prepare will be a key focus, as will
    making sure our counseling services are reaching the
    communities that need it most. We will take a comprehensive
    approach to creating and improving downpayment assistance
    programs to help those families who need Federal support in
    order to buy their first home because they do not have access
    to savings or parents whose wealth can transfer to help. I will
    also work to broaden and improve our Nation's affordable
    housing stock, including finding ways to expand factory built
    and manufactured housing as an affordable housing solution for
    suburban and rural areas.

    Q.14. What specific measures will you use to evaluate HUD's
    success in understanding and addressing the needs of BIPOC?
    Will you regularly report to Congress on the progress being
    made on these measures?

    A.14. Yes, I look forward to working with Congress on this
    particular issue and welcome an ongoing conversation on HUD's
    progress. As stated in my testimony, first and foremost we must
    prevent evictions, foreclosures, and homelessness due to the
    pandemic and economic crisis which has disproportionately
    impacted BIPOC. We also need to improve home ownership for
    BIPOC. I plan to look for ways to implement downpayment
    assistance for families and apply an equity lens to loan
    qualification criteria and appraisals, among other strategies.
    I also believe expanding access to rental assistance given the
    role it can play in reducing poverty among BIPOC should be a
    high priority and will be a measure of HUD's success. There are
    a myriad of additional ways HUD's policies and programs can
    address the needs of BIPOC, such as redoubling efforts to
    advance fair housing policy. I plan to work with HUD staff and
    my leadership team to lift up these opportunities and work with
    HUD's Office of Policy Development and Research to measure our
    success.
                                    ------

            RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR TOOMEY
                          FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE

    Q.1. Disparate Impact--I appreciate hearing you commit during
    your hearing to following the law in any potential revisions to
    HUD's disparate impact regulations, including the Supreme
    Court's 2015 decision Texas Department of Housing and Community
    Affairs v. Inclusive Communities. Will you commit that any
    revisions to HUD's disparate impact rule will follow the
    Supreme Court's dictate in Inclusive Communities that
    ``disparate-impact liability [should not] be so expansive as to
    inject racial considerations into every housing decision'' or
    cause courts ``to second-guess'' between ``two reasonable
    approaches?''

    A.1. As I testified during my hearing, I am fully committed to
    ensuring that any actions HUD takes related to disparate impact
    are consistent with the Supreme Court's ruling in Texas
    Department of Housing and Community Affairs v. Inclusive
    Communities. I understand that businesses subject to Fair
    Housing Act requirements are concerned about potential
    liability and potentially meritless litigation, just as
    individuals protected by the Fair Housing Act need meaningful
    access to the courts to ensure they are protected from
    intentional and unintentional discrimination.

    Q.2. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate
    impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in
    Inclusive Communities that ``disparate impact liability must be
    limited so employers [can] make . . . practical business
    choices and profit-related decisions [to] sustain a vibrant and
    dynamic free-enterprise system?''

    A.2. As noted in my answer to Question 1 above, I am committed
    to ensuring that any revisions to HUD's disparate impact rule
    will be consistent with the Supreme Court's ruling in Texas
    Department of Housing and Community Affairs v. Inclusive
    Communities. I will commit to considering all aspects of the
    Supreme Court's opinion during any rulemaking process.

    Q.3. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate
    impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in
    Inclusive Communities to have ``adequate safeguards'' for
    defendants at the prima facie (pleading) stage so ``race [is
    not] used and considered in a pervasive way [that] would almost
    inexorably lead governmental or private entities to use
    numerical quotas . . . ?''

    A.3. As noted in my answers to Questions 1 and 2 above, I am
    committed to ensuring that any revisions to HUD's disparate
    impact rule will be consistent with the Supreme Court's ruling
    in Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs v.
    Inclusive Communities. I will commit to considering all aspects
    of the Supreme Court's opinion during any rulemaking process.

    Q.4. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate
    impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in
    Inclusive Communities to have ``robust causality'' between the
    defendant's actions and the harm to a protected class so that
    defendants will not be held liable for racial disparities they
    did not create?

    A.4. As noted in my answer to Questions 1, 2, and 3 above, I am
    committed to ensuring that any revisions to HUD's disparate
    impact rule will be consistent with the Supreme Court's ruling
    in Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs v.
    Inclusive Communities. I will commit to considering all aspects
    of Supreme Court's opinion during any rulemaking process.

    Q.5. Will you commit that any revisions to HUD's disparate
    impact rule will follow the Supreme Court's dictate in
    Inclusive Communities to focus on removing ``artificial,
    arbitrary, and unnecessary barrier[s]'' to housing?

    A.5. As noted in my answer to Questions 1 through 4 above, I am
    committed to ensuring that any revisions to HUD's disparate
    impact rule will be consistent with the Supreme Court's ruling
    in Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs v.
    Inclusive Communities. I will commit to considering all aspects
    of the Supreme Court's opinion during any rulemaking process.

    Q.6. AFFH--Is ever it appropriate for HUD to tell localities
    how to conduct their education, transportation, or
    environmental policy? If so, under what circumstances?

    A.6. HUD-administered funds, particularly Community Development
    Block Grant Funds, are often used by localities to fund many
    activities in a community. Those activities may relate in some
    respect to education, transportation, or environmental justice.
    If a locality is covered by any of the laws that HUD
    administers, I understand that it is HUD's duty to work with
    the locality to achieve compliance with any applicable
    statutes. Given my experience working in local government, I
    understand and respect localities' legitimate desire for
    flexibility in how they comply with Federal law.

    Q.7. Is it ever appropriate for HUD to tell localities
    precisely where to place new housing? If so, under what
    circumstances?

    A.7. Based on my understanding of the Fair Housing Act, a
    locality may not refuse to permit housing to be built in a
    particular location for a discriminatory reason. If the
    evidence showed that such discrimination had occurred, it would
    be appropriate for HUD or the Department of Justice to seek a
    remedy for the discrimination, either through voluntary means
    or through a lawsuit.

    Q.8. We may disagree about what the content of a final AFFH
    rulemaking should look like, but I hope we agree that the
    outcome should come from a process that maximized stakeholder
    input. Will you commit that before making any revisions to
    HUD's AFFH regulations, you will receive extensive community
    and stakeholder input on any potential revisions, including how
    HUD's AFFH rule can respect local autonomy and avoid overly
    burdening localities?

    A.8. HUD will seek community and stakeholder input in the
    development of any revision to the AFFH rule.

    Q.9. Will you consider the possibility of tailoring the AFFH
    process to meet the unique nature of public housing agencies
    (PHAs), including by exempting PHAs altogether from having to
    undergo a separate AFFH process?

    A.9. I will commit to giving very careful consideration to all
    options relating to the AFFH process and will carefully
    consider the burdens that an AFFH process may place on public
    housing agencies.

    Q.10. Barriers to Affordable Housing--HUD just released a
    report ``Eliminating Regulatory Barriers to Affordable Housing:
    Federal, State, Local, and Tribal Opportunities'', which
    ``identifies many Federal regulations and practices that could
    be revised to eliminate unnecessary burdens to providing
    Americans with affordable, safe, quality places to live,
    including opportunities to make sustainable home ownership more
    achievable.'' \1\ Which of the report's recommendations do you
    agree with?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
         \1\ https://www.huduser.gov/portal/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/
    eliminating-regulatory-barriers-to-affordable-housing.pdf at ix.

    A.10. As you noted, this report was just published on January
    19th. I understand that there is also forthcoming research on
    this same topic in HUD's Research Journal Cityscape. If
    confirmed, I look forward to discussing the breadth of the
    recent research on this topic with Congress, other Federal
    agency leaders, HUD staff, the research community, and those
    most impacted by these regulatory barriers to determine an
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    appropriate role for HUD and the Federal Government.

    Q.11. Pilot Projects--In recent years, HUD has started some
    important pilot programs to study the effectiveness of Housing
    Choice Vouchers and to try to improve them for beneficiaries.
    Would you be open to additional pilots? If so, what kinds of
    pilots?

    A.11. Yes, I am open to conducting pilots on the HCV program
    especially as we also work to increase access to vouchers for
    low-income families. The HCV program is the Nation's largest
    rental assistance program serving over two million families.
    However, as stated in my testimony, it only reaches 1 in 5
    eligible households due to funding limitations. It is critical
    that HUD continues to study the effectiveness of the program to
    make improvements for our families, landlords, and public
    housing agencies. Some of the pilots may include activities
    such as improving safety inspections and housing modifications;
    promoting interventions that reduce segregation of families
    receiving assistance in disinvested communities and improve
    housing choice; developing innovative practices that assist
    disabled families, homeless families, youth aging out of foster
    care, and other people who face additional barriers to
    accessing housing; and implementing strategies that increase
    landlords' willingness to accept voucher recipients.

    Q.12. Ensuring That HUD Assistance Is Not for a ``Lifetime''--I
    appreciated your comment that ``public housing or low income
    housing should not be [for] a lifetime'' but ``just a stopping
    point.'' What do you intend to do during your time as HUD
    Secretary to advance that goal?

    A.12. Shortening tenancy requires a two-part strategy:
    increasing the supply of affordable housing and helping people
    increase their incomes. We need to produce more housing in
    every community that is affordable for people with low incomes.
    Housing affordability studies show that no State in the country
    has an adequate supply of affordable housing. HUD plays a key
    role in affordable housing supply along with the Treasury
    Department and USDA. If confirmed, I will work with Secretaries
    Yellen and Vilsack to increase the number of affordable housing
    units.
        Second, we need to increase tenant incomes by raising wages
    and helping people connect to education, training, and other
    services that can help improve their economic circumstances.
    While these issues are outside of HUD's direct
    responsibilities, I will partner with my colleagues to examine
    all the ways we can increase people's incomes to help them
    afford a safe place to call home.

    Q.13. Do you support expanding the number of Moving to Work
    (MTW) jurisdictions to allow more communities to experiment on
    how to make that a reality?

    A.13. As you know, the Fiscal Year 2016 Appropriations Act
    authorized HUD to expand the MTW demonstration program from the
    39 PHAs in the program to an additional 100 PHAs over a period
    of 7 years. In 2020, HUD finalized the Operations Notice for
    the MTW demonstration program expansion, which established
    requirements for the implementation and operations of the MTW
    expansion pursuant to the 2016 statute. HUD added 30 new PHAs
    to the MTW Program in January 2021, with plans to increase to
    the full 100 expansion MTW agencies through 2022. If confirmed,
    I am committed to working with the Congress as HUD follows
    through on its requirements under the 2016 Act.

    Q.14. Would you consider expanding MTW to allow defined-stay
    tenancy for new tenants (time limits) in exchange for a set
    rent that won't increase with income?

    A.14. One of the key aspects of the MTW Expansion is HUD's
    commitment to engage in structured research and analysis on
    specific flexibilities offered to PHAs under the original
    authorizing statute, including but not limited to tenancy
    issues such as those your question suggests, in order to
    provide HUD sound basis for future policy decisions. I am
    committed to working with Congress as we study MTW
    flexibilities going forward and work to determine policy and
    practices that best serve residents of federally assisted
    housing with the resources available to us.

    Q.15. CDBG Reforms--Will you commit to evaluating whether the
    CDBG program formula allocates too much money to wealthier
    areas, at the expense of funding poorer and more rural areas?
    If so, will you consider CDBG reforms that could address this
    issue?

    A.15. If confirmed, I will review past efforts to make changes
    to the CDBG funding formula. I look forward to discussing with
    members of Congress what further evaluation efforts are needed
    to inform improvements to the formula targeting.

    Q.16. Will you commit to evaluating whether the CDBG program
    insufficiently prioritizes the building of affordable housing
    because of other allowable uses for CDBG dollars? If so, will
    you consider CDBG reforms that could address this issue?

    A.16. If confirmed, I look forward to working with the HUD
    staff and CDBG grantees to better understand how and why
    grantees prioritize different community development activities
    to meet their local program objectives. As a former mayor, I
    appreciated that CDBG was not focused solely on housing. The
    CDBG program has a community development approach, with a
    broad, statutory goal of providing decent housing, a suitable
    living environment, and economic opportunity, principally for
    low- and moderate-income persons. HUD, as you know, has other
    programs, like the HOME program, that are specifically targeted
    to housing. I am committed to reviewing how the Department's
    programs work together to produce affordable housing.

    Q.17. Will you consider the possibility of supporting reforms
    that could leverage existing CDBG dollars to reward grantees
    that increase their housing stock, in order to improve housing
    affordability?

    A.17. With just 1 in 5 renters who qualify for HUD rental
    assistance receiving it, and millions of very low-income
    renters paying more than half their income for rent, there is a
    pressing need to ensure that, in addition to housing subsidies,
    there is an adequate supply of affordable housing. CDBG plays
    an important role in preserving housing stock through
    rehabilitation while the HOME program, Low Income Housing Tax
    Credit, Public Housing, the Housing Choice Voucher, and Project
    Based Rental Assistance programs support creation and long-term
    subsidy needed for creating and preserving affordable housing.
    If confirmed, I look forward to identifying local challenges
    with creating affordable housing and discussing with the
    Congress what policy tools, including incentives such as how
    much CDBG funding a community receives, might be used to
    support the creation of decent, safe, and affordable housing
    for all Americans.

    Q.18. CDBG-DR Reforms--What are appropriate guardrails to enact
    in any potential permanent authorization to HUD's CDBG-DR
    program to ensure that disaster relief reaches a community
    swiftly but in a manner that minimizes fraud?

    A.18. HUD has and will continue to provide technical drafting
    services for the various CDBG-DR authorization proposals under
    consideration. As I said during my testimony, I support a
    permanent authorization and look forward to working with
    Congress to ensure that HUD is a good steward of Federal funds
    by expediting recovery activities while ensuring appropriate
    oversight.

    Q.19. What are appropriate guardrails to enact in any potential
    permanent authorization to HUD's CDBG-DR program to eliminate
    any potential duplication of benefit?

    A.19. HUD has and will continue to provide technical drafting
    services for the various CDBG-DR authorization proposals under
    consideration. As I said during my testimony, I support a
    permanent authorization and look forward to working with
    Congress to ensure that HUD's role in disaster recovery is
    complimentary of SBA, FEMA, and other programs and fills
    critical gaps in recovery, especially by focusing on the most
    vulnerable.

    Q.20. Environmental Regulations--Regarding HUD's environmental
    regulations that govern assisted programs, how will you balance
    the need to protect the environment with the need to limit the
    cost of building new affordable housing?

    A.20. The history of redlining, urban renewal, and other
    policies have forced too many families, especially poor people
    of color, to live in undesirable areas. Many studies have shown
    the disproportionate impact that our country's contaminated
    sites have had on low-income housing. Having a roof over your
    head and being safe from harm should not be competing choices.
    That's why it's absolutely critical that HUD's mission is to
    create safe, decent, and affordable homes for all.

    Q.21. DPA--Downpayments for homes increase a lender's
    confidence that the borrower is a good credit risk. They also
    ensure the borrower has ``skin in the game.'' That's why
    lenders often require a 20 percent downpayment. Put another
    way, the downpayment protects both the lender and the borrower.
    But as recently noted by HUD in its FY20 Report on the Mutual
    Mortgage Insurance (MMI) Fund, when FHA borrowers secure
    downpayment assistance (DPA)--in effect undermining the reason
    for requiring even a minimal downpayment--serious delinquency
    rates are over 25 percent higher than FHA loans where no DPA
    was provided. \2\ Early payment default rates for DPA loans
    exceeded non-DPA loans by about 60 percent prior to FY20. \3\
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
         \2\ See FY20 MMI Report at 30.
         \3\ See id. at 39.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        You testified that you will explore ways to increase DPA
    for more borrowers. How do you intend to do that?

    A.21. There are hundreds of downpayment assistance programs
    available nationwide and all DPA programs are not created
    equal. If confirmed, I intend to review the current DPA
    programs primarily used with FHA loans, and assess the
    viability, risks, and benefits of each, as well as performance
    data. We will work together with the Administration to find
    ways to streamline, improve, and expand DPA programs to help
    credit worthy households that need assistance to get over the
    downpayment hurdle have options to buy their first home.

    Q.22. Only 3 years after HUD's establishment, Congress
    authorized FHA to insure loans with nominal downpayment
    requirements and substantially below-market interest rates
    through the decidedly unsuccessful 235 program, which cost
    taxpayers billions in losses and led to many foreclosures.
    Should you decide to support more DPA programs where borrowers
    may have little or no money down for their home purchases, what
    will you do differently to prevent FHA from insuring borrowers
    not ready for home ownership?

    A.22. If confirmed, I intend to find ways to bring more
    efficiency to DPA programs and low-downpayment lending, and I
    will work to ensure that people are given safe, appropriately
    priced loans and they have the ability to repay. I will always
    stand behind making sure loans are sustainable and homeowners
    are put in the best position to succeed and build wealth.

    Q.23. How will you concurrently make sure borrowers with DPA do
    not perform significantly worse than borrowers without DPA?

    A.23. Certainly, FHA will need to look at the performance of
    mortgages by downpayment assistance type, the risk to the
    Mutual Mortgage Insurance Fund, credit qualifications of
    borrowers, and other factors when exploring options for the use
    of downpayment assistance with FHA-insured mortgages.

    Q.24. As you consider DPA for borrowers, will you examine and
    report performance metrics of loans with DPA by individual DPA
    providers to ensure they do not perform worse than loans
    without DPA and commit to identifying any corrective measures?

    A.24. Yes. As part of FHA's annual report to Congress on the
    MMIF, I plan to continue to review and assess downpayment
    assistance program performance and will make recommendations or
    take corrective action, as appropriate.

    Q.25. In what ways can HUD ensure taxpayers do not foot the
    bill for bad credit risks?

    A.25. I can assure you that any policy actions we propose will
    only promote insuring safely underwritten mortgages for
    borrowers who are otherwise unable to achieve home ownership
    and will also take into account the risks and costs to the
    Mutual Mortgage Insurance Fund.

    Q.26. MIPs--Although the MMI Fund Capital Ratio remained above
    the statutory minimum in FY20 at 6.10 percent (but still below
    that of many private-market lenders), this was primarily due to
    continued and strong house price appreciation (HPA). However,
    as the 2008 economic recession demonstrated, strong HPA is not
    sufficient to shield the MMI Fund from a sudden and severe
    reversal in home prices. If home prices declined again, FHA
    could require another taxpayer bailout. Delinquency rates
    remain alarmingly elevated and Dave Stevens, the former FHA
    Commissioner in the Obama administration, recently admitted
    that ``forbearance numbers in the FHA program are the worst of
    any program in mortgages . . . .'' \4\ A premium reduction
    would sharply reduce the capital buffer and threaten FHA's
    ability to withstand stress caused by potential losses
    resulting from the COVID-19 pandemic and slower growth from
    Government-imposed economic shutdowns. Moreover, few market
    observers think a cut in the MIP would do much to stimulate
    homebuying in a market with tight supply. \5\
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
         \4\ Hanna Lang, ``Biden Administration Likely To Cut FHA Premiums
    Despite Credit Risks'', American Banker (Jan. 28, 2021), https://
    www.americanbanker.com/news/biden-administration-likely-to-cut-fha-
    premiums-despite-credit-risks.
         \5\ Id.

        Because the health of the MMI Fund continues to be at-risk,
    will you commit to not lowering MIPs during COVID-19 public
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    health emergency?

    A.26. People have lost their incomes and in some cases their
    lives during COVID, and we are prioritizing helping families
    remain safely housed through the pandemic. FHA plays a critical
    role in times of crises such as this, and a priority will be to
    ensure the fund is safe, stable, and sound and that we continue
    to make access to credit available to populations seeking home
    ownership. We have taken actions to keep families housed
    through the pandemic using forbearance, a streamlined loss
    mitigation program, and a foreclosure moratorium in line with
    Federal law. Ultimately, I am fully committed to finding ways
    to make home ownership more affordable and sustainable and to
    advance equity in home ownership opportunity under my watch,
    and we will use facts to drive our decisions and act when it's
    safe to do so.

    Q.27. If you do lower MIPs, how will you ensure borrowers will
    see the benefits of such reductions?

    A.27. Any considerations relative to changing FHA Mortgage
    Insurance Premiums will need to be in concert with evaluating
    the risk to the Mutual Mortgage Insurance Fund and ensuring
    that there is a quantifiable benefit to the borrower. Interest
    rates remain at historic lows, which naturally help borrower
    mortgage affordability.

    Q.28. Do you disagree with Ted Tozer, the former president of
    Ginnie Mae in the Obama administration, that borrowers will not
    ``benefit much at all'' as any reduction will be reflected in
    the sale price of homes? \6\
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
         \6\ Id.

    A.28. I believe we have to look at the entirety of the
    situation, including market factors, and I will take steps that
    both benefit homebuyers and protect the safety and soundness of
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    the FHA insurance program.

    Q.29. The FY20 Report on the MMI Fund shows that subjecting the
    FY20 portfolio to the same macroeconomic conditions faced
    during the housing crisis would create losses in excess of MMI
    Fund Capital, resulting in the MMI Fund Capital Ratio of -0.63
    percent, below the statutory 2 percent minimum, and requiring a
    bailout.
        Would you consider it a failure if FHA draws funds from the
    Treasury to cover losses, or put more simply, requires a
    bailout?

    A.29. I will consider my fiduciary responsibility to prudently
    manage the financial soundness of the Mutual Mortgage Insurance
    Fund as equal to my duty to achieve the statutory goals of the
    National Housing Act to remove home ownership inequities and
    support the housing needs of the Nation's most vulnerable
    populations. However, we are in an unprecedented economic
    disaster as a result of COVID-19, and thus far Congress has not
    provided assurances that it will pass the larger economic
    stimulus proposed by President Biden. While still currently
    unlikely that FHA's capital ratio will dip below the 2 percent
    mandated by Congress, if confirmed, I will direct my staff to
    analyze FHA's current use of its loss mitigation authorities
    and take any actions necessary to ensure those authorities are
    utilized effectively. After taking those steps, should the
    capital ratio fall below 2 percent, will be a temporary
    circumstance incurred by the Federal Government to ensure the
    MMIF remains available to support the individuals and families
    that it is supposed to serve while we endeavor to return the
    ratio to above the statutorily mandated 2 percent.

    Q.30. Do you think the MMI Fund as of FY20 has sufficient
    capital reserves?

    A.30. The MMIF is currently 3 times above the statutory minimum
    required reserve ratio.

    Q.31. Do you think it is inappropriate to build a capital
    buffer able to withstand a shock of the kind experienced during
    the 2008 housing crisis?

    A.31. This crisis is very different than the 2008 housing
    crisis thus far, as home prices have not dipped nor do
    borrowers have unsafe or exotic high priced loan types like
    what we saw in the last crisis. Looking at natural disasters as
    a comparison is more appropriate as we think about the capital
    buffer we need to endure future crises.

    Q.32. Do you have plans to impose the same climate stress tests
    and climate change regulatory standards on FHA's lending
    portfolio as several Biden administration officials have
    discussed doing for private sector market participants?

    A.32. I do believe it is important that FHA's Mutual Mortgage
    Insurance Fund is managed using appropriate modeling and
    ``stress testing'' to have an appropriate capital buffer to
    withstand significant economic shock events. Certainly, we will
    continue to evaluate the stress testing we are using and will
    analyze climate change stress testing outcomes for the FHA
    program.

    Q.33. Manufactured Housing--The Manufactured Housing Consensus
    Committee (MHCC) is a Federal Advisory Committee statutorily
    authorized to develop and submit to the HUD Secretary
    manufactured home construction and safety standards. The law
    requires the MHCC to ``submit proposed revised standards . . .
    to the [HUD] Secretary in the form of a proposed rule,
    including an economic analysis.'' 42 U.S.C. 5403(a)(4)(A)(ii).
    Accordingly, the MHCC must have resources devoted to developing
    these required economic analyses.
        Will you provide resources that are necessary for the MHCC
    to develop economic analyses to accompany the construction and
    safety standards being considered by the MHCC so that the
    standards are revised to keep up with innovations in the
    market?

    A.33. Manufactured Housing is a critical source of unsubsidized
    affordable housing, and as I mentioned in my testimony, I will
    explore more ways to further its use as an affordable housing
    option. As mandated by statute, the Manufactured Housing
    Consensus Committee (MHCC) assists HUD in formulating and
    evaluating its oversight functions of the Manufactured Home
    Construction and Safety Standards. HUD agrees the MHCC should
    have adequate resources necessary to achieve its purpose. HUD
    program office and research staffing resources provide economic
    analysis assistance and HUD's Office of Manufactured Housing
    Programs maintains sufficient contracted resources that conduct
    economic analyses for MHCC recommendations.

    Q.34. Rental Assistance--Dean Rouse testified that to put the
    economy on strong economic footing, money appropriated by
    Congress needs to be targeted, smart, and in areas where we
    know the economic benefit outweighs the cost.
        Do you agree that Congressional support needs to be
    targeted so that benefits outweigh costs?
        Is providing housing assistance without confirming
    household need a smart or targeted method of spending
    appropriated dollars?

    A.34. If we are both confirmed, I look forward to working with
    Dean Rouse on how we can target the resources Congress provides
    to ensure a solid economic footing for all Americans. As you
    know, HUD plays a critical role by providing rental assistance
    that not only prevents homelessness for millions of Americans.
    HUD's programs have been shown to help families with low
    incomes afford other basic needs like food, health care, and
    childcare. HUD's rental assistance program rules are already
    designed to target those with the lowest incomes, and local
    programs can institute additional targeting preferences as
    permitted by law. The challenge for HUD programs isn't that
    they aren't targeted, it is that funding levels are inadequate
    to meet the need. Millions of very low-income families pay more
    than half their income for rent each month because they do not
    receive Federal assistance due to lack of funding. Similarly,
    the Federal Housing Administration plays a critical role making
    affordable mortgage credit available to first time homebuyers
    and underserved populations. During economic crises, we must
    use all of the tools at our disposal to ensure that all people
    remain safely and stably housed. Targeting assistance to
    prioritize the places and people who are most in need is always
    the goal, as is ensuring equity in allocations and getting
    funds in hands of struggling households expeditiously.

    Q.35. Delinquent Federal Tax Debt--Borrowers with delinquent
    Federal tax debt are ineligible for FHA loans but HUD OIG
    discovered that FHA fails to verify with the IRS whether
    borrowers have such debt. \7\ In FY18 alone, FHA insured over
    56,000 loans to borrowers with delinquent Federal tax debt
    worth $13 billion. OIG also found that for FY18, the serious
    delinquency rate was almost 89 percent higher for those loans
    than that of the general population.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
         \7\ https://www.hudoig.gov/sites/default/files/2019-10/2019-KC-
    0003.pdf
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        How can FHA realistically protect taxpayers if it insures
    loans for people who fail to pay their own taxes?
        Can you commit to work with the Department of the Treasury
    to ensure FHA can verify prospective borrowers do not have
    delinquent Federal tax debt?

    A.35. While I would be unable to comment on the exact scenario
    that led to the previous Administration's insurance of
    mortgages to individuals with delinquent tax debt, HUD is
    required to comply with the Debt Collection Improvement Act of
    1996 (DCIA). This law requires that Federal agencies refer
    delinquent debtors to the Department of the Treasury's Treasury
    Offset Program (TOP), for withholding of any eligible Federal
    payments, including Social Security benefit payments. I will
    ensure that this process continues.

    Q.36. Depository Institution Participation--Many depository
    institutions lend in their communities and banks' participation
    in FHA is critically important for FHA's first-time homebuyers
    and minority borrowers. Will you commit to working to bring
    banks into FHA so that first-time homebuyers and minority
    borrowers continue to have access to credit?

    A.36. Robust participation in FHA programs by quality lending
    institutions, regardless of their structure, is something that
    I will continue to encourage. To date, the majority of FHA
    lender participants are nondepository institutions. It would be
    beneficial for FHA to have greater participation by
    depositories to make FHA-insured mortgage financing more easily
    available to borrowers, and to better balance counterparty
    risk. Bringing large bank lenders and regional banks back to
    the FHA program will be one of my priorities. It means more
    people have access to credit and a shot at home ownership and
    will help us meet goals for equity and support more communities
    that have historically not been served by these financial
    institutions.

    Q.37. Rental Assistance Programs--In December, Congress enacted
    a new $25 billion rental assistance program to help renters who
    have fallen behind on their bills.
        Even though that program will be run through the Treasury
    Department and not HUD, do you support that program?
        The National Low Income Housing Coalition claims that
    renters may owe $57 billion in back rent. Do you think that
    Congress should prioritize funding to address that backlog,
    which would help to remove the treat of eviction from landlords
    who, in some cases, may not have received their past-due rent
    for nine or more months?
        Do you support making sure that any future funding
    appropriated to the emergency COVID rental assistance program
    is used exclusively to retire those arrears and get those
    renters out from under the threat of eviction?

    A.37. I understand that HUD has been providing answers to
    Treasury's questions as they have been working to implement the
    new $25 billion Emergency Rental Assistance program. If
    confirmed, it will be one of my highest priorities to continue
    whatever HUD can legally do to support Secretary Yellen's
    implementation of this important program.
        I agree that Congress should provide funding to help people
    pay back rent owed due to the health and economic crises.
    Rental housing depends on responsible landlords providing safe,
    decent housing. To do that effectively, landlords need to
    receive the rent. Many landlords have mortgages that need to be
    paid, all have taxes, insurance, utilities, and maintenance
    costs to be paid. The growing rent arrearages is certainly
    negatively impacting landlords and their tenants.
        Treasury's Emergency Rental Assistance program will play an
    important role at helping not only prevent eviction but
    ensuring landlords get the funding they need to continue to
    provide safe and decent housing. I look forward to working with
    the Congress to craft effective policies that keep Americans
    housed as this crisis continues to evolve.

    Q.38. Homelessness--In 2020, HUD estimated that the homeless
    population of the United States exceeded 560,000, driven in
    large part by substantial increases in California and New York,
    which have four of the top five cities in terms of homeless
    populations. As the homeless population continues to increase
    in places like New York City, Los Angles, San Diego, and San
    Jose, it is clear that the strategies those places are using to
    reduce homelessness are simply not working.
        Can you explain what the permanent supportive housing
    method known as Housing First entails?
        Are you aware that the Housing First model prohibits, as a
    condition of receiving funding, homeless services providers
    from creating safe spaces free from drugs and alcohol use for
    chronically homeless individuals in need of sobriety services,
    or that it prohibits requiring individuals suffering from
    severe mental illness from having to take psychiatric
    medications?
        By awarding Federal funding through a Housing First model,
    HUD is essentially locking out successful homeless services
    providers with long track records of both sheltering
    chronically homeless individuals and treating their alcohol,
    drug, or mental illness issues to increase their chances to
    remain permanently housed. As Secretary, will you commit to
    reviewing HUD's Housing First formula bias and working to
    ensure that all providers of successful homeless services have
    equal access to Federal funding, even those with programs that
    feature sobriety or mental health treatment requirements?

    A.38. Housing First is an approach that is applied to a variety
    of different types of programs, including permanent supportive
    housing, rapid rehousing, and transitional housing. The
    techniques used as part of a Housing First approach are
    tailored to the specific needs of each person being served.
    However, all projects that use a Housing First approach share
    three elements:

        There are low barriers to entry, meaning that
            people can be served by programs using a Housing First
            approach, regardless of the barriers they face.

        Housing First programs focus first on helping
            people move into safe and stable housing as quickly as
            possible. One of the reasons Housing First approaches
            are effective is that when people are in safe and
            stable housing, they are much better able to address
            the challenges that led to their homelessness.

        A Housing First approach involves providing
            customized and client-driven supports, which may
            include primary health, behavioral health, employment,
            and education.

        If confirmed, a primary goal will be to ensure that HUD
    provides the most effective assistance possible. I support
    using a Housing First approach because numerous studies have
    shown it is the most effective strategy for reducing
    homelessness. If confirmed, during my tenure, HUD will continue
    to look at all different approaches and promote ones that
    evidence shows will most help us achieve our goal of ending
    homelessness.

    Q.39. In August, GAO reported that HUD may be misstating the
    size of the U.S. homeless population because of flawed data
    collection and monitoring processes. One factor in that flawed
    data collection is the use of different definitions of the term
    ``homeless'' by different Federal agencies, like the Department
    of Education. For example, GAO stated: ``The definition of
    homeless that Education uses is broader than HUD's.[and]
    includes children and youth who are sharing the housing of
    other persons due to loss of housing, economic hardship, or a
    similar reason (that is, are doubled up); living in motels,
    hotels, trailer parks, or camping grounds due to the lack of
    alternative adequate accommodations; or living in substandard
    housing.'' The result of that disparity is that over one
    million children who qualify as homeless by part of the Federal
    Government are omitted and cut off from assistance by HUD under
    its more restricted definition.
        Do you support the inclusion of all children who are
    homeless within the HUD definition of homeless so that they can
    access HUD funding along with adults?

    A.39. I look forward to discussing the issues you raise. With
    respect to the definition of homelessness, any expansion of the
    definition of homelessness should also be coupled with
    additional resources. The challenge is that we don't have
    enough resources to serve those who currently meet HUD's
    homelessness definition, and I think we need to ensure families
    living in crowded shelters or on the street receive the housing
    and services they need. I recognize that many families live on
    the edge of homelessness and need help finding and maintaining
    affordable housing.
        Therefore, I am interested in ways to expand housing
    assistance so that all people who are eligible for assistance
    receive it. As I said in my testimony, only 1 in 5 households
    who are eligible for rental assistance receive it. Increasing
    access to HUD assistance is essential not only to ending
    homelessness but to ensuring families on the edge of
    homelessness stay housed. Finally, increasing access to
    affordable housing also includes partnering with communities to
    accelerate the development of affordable housing and ensuring
    homeless families and youth are prioritized for health care,
    education, employment, and other needed services.

    Q.40. As Secretary, would you support the harmonizing of the
    definition of homeless across all Federal agencies?

    A.40. I will reenergize HUD's efforts to partner with other
    Federal agencies to ensure that Federal programs across the
    board are doing as much as possible to prevent and end
    homelessness.
                                    ------

            RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR COTTON
                          FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE

    Q.1. An issue that has garnered bipartisan support on this
    Committee has been the regulation of Property Assessed Clean
    Energy loans. An important part of these efforts was a decision
    issued by HUD in 2017 to stop issuing FHA insurance on homes
    that carry PACE liens. The rationale behind this decision was
    two-fold. First, by placing PACE loans in a first-lien
    position, this program put the Federal Government--and the
    taxpayers who stand behind FHA--in a second loss position. And
    second, the lack of consumer protections associated with PACE
    lending led to documented abuses at the hands of predatory
    lenders.
        Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the VA all ban PACE lending,
    just like FHA. If confirmed to lead HUD, will you continue to
    protect both homeowners and taxpayers by maintaining a strong
    ban on FHA insuring mortgages with PACE liens?

    A.1. Yes. I am committed to protecting homeowners and taxpayers
    and maintaining this policy. I agree that the current FHA
    policy on Property Assessed Clean Energy (PACE) loans is
    consistent and prudent for the housing finance industry, and
    the current PACE structure that subordinates FHA to second lien
    position puts the FHA insurance program and taxpayers at risk.
    As you know, energy efficiency and climate are key priorities
    for the Administration, and I believe that housing has a role
    to play in that. If I am confirmed, I hope that progress can be
    made to improve and expand sustainable and equitable clean
    energy housing programs, and I commit to working across
    agencies, with the White House Climate Council, and with
    Congress to determine affordable ways to ensure safe and
    efficient home construction, manufacturing and financing
    options for homeowners who wish to make energy efficient
    improvements to their homes. This is an area we will continue
    to evaluate.
                                    ------

           RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR KENNEDY
                          FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE

    Q.1. In 2020, five categorized storms struck Louisiana,
    affecting all 64 parishes across the State. The most powerful
    of these storms, Hurricane Laura, hit Southwest Louisiana as a
    Category 4 storm and is one of the strongest storms to make
    landfall in American history. Because of the previous
    Administration's decision to issue major disaster declarations
    prior to landfall for both Hurricanes Laura and Delta, many
    lives were saved across Louisiana. However, the physical
    damages to homes, businesses, and infrastructure were
    extensive. Hurricane Laura alone caused an estimated $14
    billion in damages. Hurricane Delta further compounded the
    damage when it made landfall in the same area just 42 days
    later. The Louisiana Governor, and the Louisiana Congressional
    delegation have called for disaster relief appropriations that
    would focus primarily on HUD's Community Development Block
    Grants for Disaster Relief. This funding is imperative to fill
    the gap between available funds.
        Louisiana's citizens are resilient, but our State and local
    resources cannot cope with these hurricanes' severity and
    frequency without emergency supplemental assistance. As
    Secretary of HUD, will you urge the President to make this
    request to Congress for these funds?

    A.1. Over the past decade, communities across the country have
    witnessed a historic number of deadly and destructive weather
    and climate events. In 2020 alone, there were 22 weather and
    climate disaster events with losses exceeding $1 billion each
    to affect the United States--a new record. If confirmed, I will
    work with HUD and FEMA to estimate unmet recovery needs and
    work with the President to implement his historic vision for
    building back better.
                                    ------

                   RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF
                 SENATOR MENENDEZ FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE

    Q.1. Healthy Housing--Last Congress, Senator Scott and I
    introduced and passed into law our CO Alerts Act, which
    requires carbon monoxide alarms in federally assisted housing
    units that have potential carbon monoxide sources like gas-
    fired appliances, fireplaces, forced air furnaces, and attached
    garages. Since carbon monoxide is a silent killer, carbon
    monoxide alarms are the only way to safely detect the poison's
    presence.
        How will you prioritize implementing this bill to ensure
    public housing residents' exposure to danger from carbon
    monoxide is reduced each successive winter?

    A.1. I was very pleased to see that the CO Alerts Act was
    enacted as part of the FY2021 Consolidated Appropriations Act.
    The CO Alerts Act aligns with my commitment to ensure that
    public housing offers safe homes for all residents. And even
    though the Act allows up to 2 years to implement, if confirmed
    as Secretary, I will pursue implementation of the Act as
    quickly as possible. I hope that Congress will follow up on the
    authorization of funds with a specific appropriation. This
    would allow the Department to build on steps already taken to
    eliminate carbon monoxide exposure risks over the past 2 years,
    including the Department having provided in the past 12 months
    nearly $10 million in funding for 117 public housing agencies
    to install carbon monoxide detectors in thousands of
    residential units across the Nation.

    Q.2. Another poison present in Federal housing is lead. Senator
    Scott and I also have a bill on this issue, the Lead-Safe
    Housing for Kids Act.
        Will you consider reevaluating how HUD currently conducts
    risk assessments and how current evaluation tools are used to
    identify lead hazards in federally assisted housing before a
    family moves in?

    A.2. First, I want to thank you and Senators Durbin and Scott
    for introducing the Lead-Safe Housing for Kids Act in 2019.
    Every child, regardless of their zip code, deserves a safe and
    healthy place to lay their head at night. The Centers for
    Disease Control and Prevention consistently cautions that no
    level of lead exposure is safe. As I am sure you know, based on
    Title X, HUD already requires, with only a few exceptions, all
    older HUD-assisted public housing and project-based rental
    housing to have a risk assessment followed by control of any
    lead-based paint hazards identified. However, Title X does not
    authorize HUD to require the same risk assessments in the
    Housing Choice Voucher program. It is my understanding that in
    an effort to address the problem, HUD conducts visual
    assessments for deteriorating paint, followed by stabilization
    of the area identified.
        If confirmed, I will explore how HUD currently conducts
    risk assessments and how visual assessments are used to
    identify lead hazards in tenant-based housing before a family
    moves into pre-1978 housing. HUD's Real Estate Assessment
    Center developed a lead inspection methodology and performed a
    pilot test in FFY20 as a prototype inspection for public
    housing agencies that received funding for lead abatement. In
    addition, a recent Government Accountability Office (GAO)
    report recommended that HUD take definitive actions to address
    lead hazards in its project-based rental assistance properties.
    If confirmed, I will ensure that HUD develops an action plan to
    address the findings in the GAO report, which is a start to
    reevaluating this issue on a larger scale.

    Q.3. Puerto Rico--In September 2017, Puerto Rico was nearly
    destroyed after being hit by two back-to-back category 5
    hurricanes. Under the Trump administration, HUD wrapped
    financial aid in so much red tape, that 3 years after the
    hurricanes the island has only received $3.2 billion of the
    nearly $20 billion that Congress appropriated in CDBG-DR funds
    between 2017 and 2018.
        Congresswoman Fudge, can you commit to working with the
    people of Puerto Rico to ensure that they get all of the
    congressionally appropriated funding as expediently as
    possible?

    A.3. Yes. We will work to ensure that Puerto Rico receives the
    Federal disaster reconstruction funding that it urgently needs
    to support the long-term recovery of Puerto Rico and increase
    its ability to withstand any future storms.

    Q.4. Elderly Housing--HUD rental housing programs bring
    affordable housing to more than 1.9 million older adults, a
    population ravaged by COVID-19.
        Under your leadership, how will HUD ensure the federally
    assisted senior housing communities have the tools and
    resources they need to protect residents and staff?

    A.4. Safeguarding the welfare of older adults across the
    Department is, and must remain, one of our highest priorities.
    While older adults are the focus of the Section 202 Supportive
    Housing for the Elderly program, older Americans are supported
    by nearly all HUD programs including public housing, tenant-
    based rental assistance, and project-based rental assistance.
    The Department will continue to Administer supplemental funding
    provided by Congress and to protect residents and staff.
    Supplemental funding appropriated by Congress is being used to
    support a variety of resident safety measures, such as personal
    protective equipment, extra cleaning and disinfecting,
    equipment to facilitate social distancing, and temporary
    staffing increases to maintain or enhance ongoing service
    coordination for residents. HUD should also strengthen its
    partnerships with HHS and State and local public health
    agencies to ensure that older Americans are vaccinated. If
    confirmed, I look forward to working with you to ensure older
    adults are protected in HUD-assisted housing.
                                    ------

            RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR WARREN
                          FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE

    Q.1. Eviction poses a severe threat to families and to public
    health, and new research shows that a strong eviction
    moratorium can save lives during this pandemic. While the CDC
    eviction moratorium has been a critical intervention, it must
    be strengthened. The Trump administration made the moratorium
    as weak as possible--the order allows landlords to file
    eviction proceedings, requires renters to sign a declaration
    under penalty of perjury that could be intimidating, and allows
    landlords to evict renters who do not know their rights. The
    Administration also failed to conduct public outreach--
    particularly troubling because eligible renters do not
    automatically receive eviction protection--and did not enforce
    the ban.
        Will you work with the CDC to strengthen the moratorium?

    A.1. If confirmed, I will direct my staff to work with CDC to
    look for ways to strengthen their moratorium.

    Q.2. Will you conduct public outreach to renters and landlords
    regarding the moratorium, including in multiple languages?

    A.2. The Limited English Proficiency Initiative provides
    funding for the creation and promotion of translated materials
    and other programs that support the assistance of persons with
    limited English proficiency in utilizing the services provided
    by the Department of Housing and Urban Development. If
    confirmed, I will direct my staff to work with CDC staff to
    provide public outreach regarding the moratorium to renters and
    housing providers, which would include sharing information in
    multiple languages.

    Q.3. Will you work with other agencies to ensure there is
    meaningful enforcement of the moratorium?

    A.3. The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) prosecutes violations
    of the moratorium. If confirmed and asked for guidance on
    enforcement, I will direct my staff to work with DOJ staff to
    find ways to more meaningfully enforce the moratorium, based on
    HUD's experiences enforcing regulations for our own housing
    programs.

    Q.4. Will you work with housing advocacy organizations and low-
    income renters to determine necessary changes to strengthen the
    order?

    A.4. If confirmed, I will ensure that we listen to the concerns
    of housing advocacy organizations and low-income renters before
    making determinations about our consultations with the CDC on
    the future of their eviction moratorium.

    Q.5. In 2016, HUD found that ``transgender and gender
    nonconforming persons continue to experience significant
    violence, harassment, and discrimination in attempting to
    access programs, benefits, services, and accommodations'' and
    reported that ``transgender persons are often discriminatorily
    excluded from shelters or face dangerous conditions in the
    shelters that correspond to their sex assigned at birth.''
        Will HUD abandon the Trump administration's proposed rule
    undermining the 2016 Equal Access rule protections?

    A.5. Yes, HUD will withdraw the proposed rule. Transgender and
    gender nonconforming persons experience extremely high rates of
    homelessness, and historically, emergency shelters have not
    appropriately and consistently met the needs of these
    communities. The 2016 rule helps protect transgender persons
    from discrimination in emergency shelters, and I am committed
    to enforcing it. Furthermore, HUD will republish training
    materials that help communities effectively implement the 2016
    rule.

    Q.6. We face a worsening affordable housing crisis that is
    hitting families of color the hardest. Today, there are only 36
    affordable rental homes available for every 100 extremely low-
    income families, and a housing shortage exists for all families
    making below the area median income. Tackling this crisis will
    require significant, targeted investments in building
    affordable housing for the lowest-income Americans, like the
    Housing Trust Fund.
        Will you advocate for investments in the Housing Trust Fund
    in the HUD budget and in an infrastructure package or other
    legislation?

    A.6. I support President Biden's plan for investing in our
    communities through housing, including his call for increased
    investment in the Housing Trust Fund.

    Q.7. Amidst an ongoing affordable housing crisis, it is
    critical to preserve and maintain existing affordable housing,
    including 1.2 million public housing units. Years of chronic
    underfunding have resulted in an estimated $70 billion backlog
    of repairs to the existing public housing stock.
        Will you advocate for investments in the Public Housing
    Capital Fund in the HUD budget and in an infrastructure package
    or other legislation?

    A.7. In the opening statement of my testimony, I voiced my
    conviction that we must work together to improve the quality,
    safety, and accessibility of affordable housing throughout the
    Nation. Many communities suffer from disinvestment; and
    unfortunately, given the age of much of the public housing
    stock, the level of funding for public housing has been
    insufficient to address the backlog of repairs.
        Modernization of HUD's housing stock would allow us to
    accomplish multiple objectives: strengthening our economy
    through energy retrofitting which will generate green jobs,
    addressing health hazards, and, most importantly, creating
    high-quality living conditions for some of our most vulnerable
    communities. If confirmed, I welcome the opportunity to work
    with you on significant capital investment in our public
    housing portfolio.

    Q.8. As of October 2020, HUD had still not established
    conditions for using CDBG-DR funds to implement long-term
    repairs to Puerto Rico's energy grids following the 2017
    hurricanes, or approved any long-term grid recovery projects.
        Will you prioritize getting appropriated disaster relief
    money to Puerto Rico, and addressing administrative roadblocks
    that have prevented Puerto Rico from using that funding?

    A.8. Yes. We will work to ensure that Puerto Rico receives the
    Federal disaster reconstruction funding that it urgently needs
    to support the long-term recovery of Puerto Rico and increase
    its ability to withstand any future storms. In addition, I will
    work with HUD to take additional administrative steps to remove
    unnecessary barriers to distributing much-needed housing
    recovery funds.

    Q.9. President Biden has committed to take a ``housing first''
    approach to ending homelessness, and to conduct a review of
    Federal housing programs to ensure they pursue and incentivize
    this approach. Will you encourage the U.S. Interagency Council
    on Homelessness to appoint an Executive Director who has a
    demonstrated commitment to a ``housing first'' approach?

    A.9. Yes. I agree that the Executive Director of USICH serves a
    critical role in shaping the Nation's homelessness response.
    That role must be filled by a person who understands and
    follows the evidence. Numerous studies and the experiences of
    communities across the country show that Housing First
    approaches are the most effective way to address homelessness
    for the vast majority of people. I will ensure that it is the
    primary strategy promoted by HUD and I will advocate for a new
    USICH Executive Director who understands and supports Housing
    First strategies.
                                    ------

            RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR SMITH
                          FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE

    Q.1. On November 27, 2019, a fire broke out on the upper floors
    of Cedar High Apartments, a public housing building in
    Minneapolis, Minnesota. Five residents tragically lost their
    lives in the fire. In the wake of this tragedy, I learned that
    Cedar High Apartments, like so many other multifamily public
    housing buildings around the country, was built long before
    1992, when Congress passed a law requiring new public housing
    to be equipped with automatic sprinkler systems.
        As a result, the Federal sprinkler requirement does not
    apply to Cedar High Apartments, and any efforts to voluntarily
    upgrade fire safety in that building have to be funded by the
    Minneapolis Public Housing Authority's limited capital funds.
        Improving fire safety in public housing should be a core
    part of fulfilling HUD's mission to provide safe, stable
    housing to low-income families. I also see this as an issue of
    equity, since public housing residents are disproportionately
    people of color and people with disabilities. We must do
    everything we can to ensure that these individuals are safe in
    their own homes.
        I authored a bill, the Public Housing Fire Safety Act, to
    help public housing agencies fund efforts to improve fire
    safety in older public housing buildings. Rep. Fudge, if
    confirmed, will you commit to working with me to get this
    effort across the finish line and provide funding for efforts
    to retrofit older public housing buildings with sprinkler
    systems?

    A.1. I am committed to working with you to ensure that the
    Nation's public housing properties meet high standards for
    safety and security. Fire safety is one of a number of critical
    issues that must be addressed in order to ensure that the homes
    of public housing residents are safe places to live. As
    referenced in your question, the Federal Fire Safety Act of
    1992 required the installation of sprinklers in all new
    Government-owned high-rise buildings, but not in the thousands
    of public housing developments around the country built before
    that date. Given the age of the public housing portfolio and
    the backlog of capital needs faced by many public housing
    agencies, additional capital funds are necessary to quickly
    address health and safety risks, including fire safety. If
    confirmed, I look forward to working with you and Congress on
    this important issue.
                                    ------

            RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR SINEMA
                          FROM MARCIA L. FUDGE

    Q.1. As you know, rental assistance dollars are administered by
    the Treasury Department. However, if confirmed, you will have
    an important role as HUD Secretary in advising the president on
    how he should engage on relief disbursement. Arizona struggled
    to allocate the rental assistance dollars provided by the CARES
    Act. Much of the backlog seems to have been attributed to
    onerous requirements at the State level, which require renters
    to go to great lengths and provide excessive paperwork to prove
    financial damage due to the coronavirus outbreak. While it is
    vital we prevent fraud in all Federal coronavirus relief
    programs, we also need the relief to get to Americans who are
    hurting. If confirmed, how will you help streamline rental
    assistance programs, including those in Arizona, so that
    dollars get to those in need in a timely manner?

    A.1. I understand that HUD staff are providing technical
    support and participating in stakeholder listening sessions as
    the Treasury Department revises guidance published by the
    previous Administration on the recently funded Emergency Rental
    Assistance program. It is a top priority to provide whatever
    assistance HUD may legally provide to Treasury Secretary
    Yellen, as her team seeks to implement this important program
    quickly and effectively. I am also committed to learning more
    about what barriers are slowing the expenditure of HUD CARES
    funded programs in order to take actions that will speed up the
    effective expenditure of those funds. We must do whatever we
    can with the resources we have to quickly support people who
    are housing insecure due to the health and economic crises.

    Q.2. As you know, HUD's definition of homelessness excludes
    children and youth living in motels or staying with other
    people temporarily, effectively and systematically preventing
    many families and children from receiving any HUD assistance.
    Every year, there are efforts to broad and align HUD's
    definition of homelessness with those of other Federal
    agencies, such as the Department of Education and the
    Department of Health and Human Services. The coronavirus
    outbreak has led to record-breaking homelessness levels,
    including homeless children.
        How do you feel about aligning HUD's definition with other
    agencies?
        Would you be willing to waive any HUD regulation or
    practice that restricts access to housing and homeless
    assistance for children, youth, and families who are
    experiencing homelessness as a result of the coronavirus
    outbreak?
        How else do you plan to combat families and youth
    experiencing homelessness?

    A.2. I look forward to discussing the issues you raise. With
    respect to the definition of homelessness, any expansion of the
    definition of homelessness should also be coupled with
    additional resources. The challenge is that we do not have
    enough resources to serve those who currently meet the
    homelessness definition, and we must ensure families living in
    crowded shelters or on the street receive the housing and
    services they need. I recognize that many families live on the
    edge of homelessness and need help finding and maintaining
    affordable housing. I will reenergize HUD's efforts to partner
    with other Federal agencies to ensure that Federal programs
    across the board are doing as much to prevent and end
    homelessness as possible. I will also explore every waiver and
    authority available to ensure that HUD's programs are assisting
    as many people as possible during the pandemic.
        I am also interested in ways to expand housing assistance
    so that all people who are eligible for assistance receive it.
    As I said in my testimony, only 1 in 5 households who are
    eligible for Federal rental assistance receive it. Increasing
    access to HUD assistance is essential not only to ending
    homelessness but to ensuring families on the edge of
    homelessness stay housed. Finally, increasing access to
    affordable housing also includes partnering with communities to
    accelerate the development of affordable housing and ensuring
    homeless families and youth are prioritized for health care,
    education, employment, and other needed services.

    Q.3. In addition to our families and children, I am concerned
    about homelessness levels for Arizona seniors and veterans. How
    do you plan to combat homelessness in these demographics?

    A.3. I am very troubled by the rise in homelessness among
    seniors. We need to ensure that there is enough affordable and
    accessible housing to ensure that seniors do not fall into
    homelessness. For those seniors who are homeless now or become
    homeless in the future, we need to ensure that we help them
    move quickly into housing and connect them with the health care
    and other services they need. I will work closely with my
    counterparts at HHS and with communities to coordinate housing
    and health care, and I will advocate for more affordable
    housing opportunities for seniors.
        HUD's partnership with VA is crucial for ending
    homelessness among our Nation's veterans. The HUD-VA Supportive
    Housing (HUD-VASH) program has helped reduce veteran
    homelessness by half since 2010 and several communities report
    ending homelessness for veterans. However, HUD-VASH is facing
    new challenges, particularly in communities where housing costs
    have skyrocketed. I will work to reenergize this partnership,
    increase the impact of HUD-VASH, and look for opportunities to
    direct housing assistance to more veterans with low incomes who
    need housing subsidies but do not need intensive supportive
    services.
                                    ------

            RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR BROWN
                         FROM CECILIA E. ROUSE

    Q.1. Last year women lost the most jobs in our economy--in fact
    in December, women accounted for all 140,000 of the net job
    losses that month. And that doesn't even account for all the
    women who've been forced out of the labor market altogether.
    You were on the CEA during the height of the Great Recession,
    and you've spent your career studying racial and gender gaps in
    the labor force. How do we address the job losses
    disproportionately hurting women and Black and brown workers?

    A.1. This pandemic has disproportionately hurt women and Black
    and brown workers, but it was able to do so because of long-
    standing inequities in our society. This is a moment of urgency
    but also of opportunity unlike anything we've faced in modern
    times: the urgency of ending a devastating crisis, and the
    opportunity to build a better economy that works for everyone.
    As we work to build that better economy, the CEA will always
    take into account the impacts of policies on disadvantaged and
    underrepresented communities.

    Q.2. Even before this pandemic, workers' economic security was
    eroding and the middle class was shrinking. For decades, we've
    been losing many well-paying, middle class, union jobs--like
    the manufacturing jobs in my home State of Ohio. The cost of
    everything from child care to housing to education has gone up.
    Meanwhile, we've seen a rise in the so-called ``gig economy,''
    which we know is just another way to cut costs and exploit
    workers. Long term, how do we build an economy that honors the
    dignity of all work?

    A.2. We need to start by not thinking that the average outcome
    is what everyone in America is experiencing. We need to look at
    unemployment rates for all groups, at wage growth for different
    wage levels, and economic outcomes in communities across the
    country. As part of that effort, we will need to carefully
    examine the ways in which our institutions may need updating to
    fit the modern labor market. An economy that works for everyone
    is an economy that will grow faster and provide more economic
    benefits to all of us.

    Q.3. Where have you excelled in past positions in hiring and
    promoting people of color in your previous jobs?

    A.3. I served three terms as chair of the American Economic
    Association's Committee on the Status of Minority Groups in the
    Economics Professions, established to increase the
    representation of minorities in the economics profession. In
    addition, as dean of the Princeton School of Public and
    International Affairs (SPIA), I have made it a priority to
    diversify our faculty, staff, and student body. This included
    shoring up programs to ensure that students of color were in
    the policymaker pipeline.

    Q.4. In August 2011, President Obama issued an Executive order
    establishing a coordinated, governmentwide initiative to
    promote diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in the Federal
    workforce. The Executive order reads, in part, that ``Attaining
    a diverse, qualified workforce is one of the cornerstones of
    the merit-based civil service . . . To realize more fully the
    goal of using the talents of all segments of society, the
    Federal Government must continue to challenge itself to enhance
    its ability to recruit, hire, promote, and retain a more
    diverse workforce. Further, the Federal Government must create
    a culture that encourages collaboration, flexibility, and
    fairness to enable individuals to participate to their full
    potential.'' The order required each agency to establish an
    agency-specific diversity, equity, and inclusion strategic plan
    with specific objectives.
        Please describe your commitment to diverse hiring at the
    Council of Economic Advisers (CEA). Will you establish an
    agency-specific diversity, equity, and inclusion strategic plan
    with specific objectives?

    A.4. I am deeply committed to creating a more diverse CEA than
    has existed in the past. I am ready to work with my team to
    make this a reality.

    Q.5. What are some short- and long-term strategies for
    addressing wealth disparities, income disparities, and
    employment and unemployment disparities?

    A.5. In the short-term, we must address the economic fallout
    from the pandemic, which has had a disproportionate effect on
    communities of color. As we build back better, we must look for
    policies that not only address income and wealth disparities,
    but must also ensure that programs built to shore up the
    economy do not leave out Black and brown workers. In order to
    pay for some of these strategic investments, the President is
    committed to ensuring that everyone pays their fair share--
    which suggests that tax policy will be a potential tool for
    addressing inequality.

    Q.6. Have you previously implemented and required diversity,
    equity, and inclusion training for all employees and implicit
    bias training for managers within your purview?

    A.6. As dean of the Princeton School of Public and
    International Affairs (SPIA), I offered DEI training for
    faculty, staff, and students and strongly encouraged them all
    to participate. However, I did not require participation, as
    evidence shows that voluntary participation is more successful
    than mandatory.

    Q.7. Will you commit to implementing and requiring diversity,
    equity, and inclusion training for all employees within your
    purview? What is your plan for implementing these trainings?

    A.7. At CEA, as I did at SPIA, I will strongly encourage
    participation in such programs.

    Q.8. Will you commit to implementing and requiring implicit
    bias training for managers within your purview? What is your
    plan for implementing these trainings?

    A.8. At CEA, as I did at SPIA, I will strongly encourage
    participation in such programs.

    Q.9. Please describe how you view the role of Chair of the CEA
    in appropriately serving Black, Indigenous, and People of Color
    (BIPOC)? How do you view the CEA's role in furthering racial
    equity?

    A.9. The most important role I can play as Chair of CEA is to
    help build an economy that works for everybody.

    Q.10. Please list at least 3 specific priorities for advancing
    racial equity, diversity, and inclusion at CEA. What specific
    measures will you use to evaluate success in these areas, and
    over what period of time?

    A.10. Three priorities that will go a long way in advancing DEI
    are: (1) promoting data collection that includes adequate
    samples of all parts of our population so that we can get a
    clear picture of their circumstances; (2) shoring up the safety
    net; and (3) advocating that strategic investments in Build
    Back Better include workers of color and other underrepresented
    populations. The CEA will work with Congress to design
    appropriate measures to evaluate success.

    Q.11. Please describe how you plan to work with the
    Administration and engage all sectors of our economy to serve
    Black, Indigenous, and People of Color (BIPOC) and dismantle
    systemic racism's impact on the economy? How will you
    accelerate private sector efforts to achieve more inclusive
    leadership?

    A.11. The CEA will work with the Administration to identify
    ways that systemic racism has been an obstacle to Black,
    Indigenous, and People of Color's ability to participate fully
    in the economy.

    Q.12. Will you establish an office or position committed to
    advancing DEI?

    A.12. We will hire staff committed to examining economic policy
    that can advance DEI. Importantly DEI should be a lens through
    which all economic policies are analyzed.

    Q.13. What specific measures will you use to evaluate CEA's
    success in understanding and addressing the needs of BIPOC?
    Will you regularly report to Congress on the progress being
    made on these measures?

    A.13. At the heart of understanding and addressing the needs of
    BIPOC is making sure that the data we use do not leave them
    out. We have to improve the data we utilize to ensure that we
    have a clear picture of how the economy affects Black,
    Indigenous, People of Color, and other underrepresented
    populations.

    Q.14. An agency's budget reflects its values and goals. How do
    you plan to allocate and sufficiently resource internal and
    external efforts to advance DEI as part of CEA's annual budget
    process? How will you ensure sufficient financial support for
    the agency-specific diversity, equity, and inclusion strategic
    plan to ensure you are able to meet the objectives established
    under that plan in a reasonable time period?

    A.14. I completely agree that an agency's budget reflects a
    plan of action. Once at the CEA, it will be a priority of mine
    to allocate resources in a way that advances our commitment to
    DEI.
                                    ------

            RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR TOOMEY
                         FROM CECILIA E. ROUSE

    Q.1. Increasing National Debt--The U.S. Government would have
    to engage in significant borrowing to cover the cost of the
    Biden administration's stimulus spending plan. The Nation's
    debt already exceeds its annual output at 100.1 percent of
    gross domestic product. What are the costs that can be
    inflicted by rising national debt, and how much debt is too
    much?

    A.1. With COVID-19 raging, we must provide sufficient support
    to households and businesses so they can survive this pandemic-
    induced recession. We are still down more jobs than we were at
    the peak of the Great Recession. The best thing we can do for
    national debt at the moment is ensure that we have a strong
    economy on the other side of this crisis. More generally,
    borrowing--particularly with record low interest rates--and
    making strategic investments in our future can help boost
    growth and ensure it is more inclusive over the longrun.

    Q.2. School Closures--You have focused much of your economic
    research on education, and have published several studies on K-
    12 education in particular. During the COVID-19 pandemic, we
    have seen an increase in educational inequality, in large part
    due to widespread persistent closures of public schools to in-
    person learning despite substantial evidence that schools could
    safely remain open. Long-term school lockdowns have reduced
    students' learning time, and hence, worsened student
    performance.
        Do you believe that reopening schools for in-person
    learning is urgently necessary for students?

    A.2. Every student should have access to a high quality, safe
    learning environment. Reopening schools safely will require
    careful work, and I look forward to engaging productively in
    conversations about how to ensure that all students have access
    to the learning environments they need so that educational
    inequality does not increase further.

    Q.3. Should policy makers facilitate opportunities for parents
    to send their children to schools offering in-person learning
    while their local schools are closed?

    A.3. We need to ensure that children are learning in safe
    environments. I look forward to working with the Administration
    on ensuring that students are able to get the education they
    need while keeping themselves and their families safe.

    Q.4. Unemployment Insurance--You have expressed concern for
    those who have fallen through the social safety net,
    particularly those who have experienced extended unemployment.
    During your hearing you noted that today's unemployment
    insurance system doesn't provide the safety net it used to,
    arguing that it was designed for short-term unemployment, but
    not the kind of longer-term unemployment that we may be seeing
    with the Government-imposed shutdowns of the economy.
        What changes do you think should be made to the UI system
    that would result in these individuals returning to the labor
    market?

    A.4. We must design a UI system that works for everyone. One of
    the most immediate changes we should make is to ensure the UI
    system functions properly so that workers do not wait months to
    receive checks to which they are entitled. I also strongly
    support the President's focus on short-time compensation, a
    program that has worked well in other countries, but that has
    been underutilized in this country.

    Q.5. What do you believe is an appropriate duration for
    providing unemployment insurance benefits to an individual?

    A.5. Long-term unemployment has been an increasing problem in
    this country. It is also a particular problem in this pandemic
    as certain industries have struggled, and will likely continue
    to struggle, until the public health crisis is resolved. In a
    typical recession, unemployment insurance is supposed to
    support workers actively looking for work until they are able
    to find another job; in this crisis, which is caused by a
    pandemic, we need to help workers provide for themselves and
    their families until the health crisis has been addressed and
    job opportunities return. I look forward to working with
    Congress on how we can best design the program to meet that
    need.
                                    ------

            RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR WARREN
                         FROM CECILIA E. ROUSE

    Q.1. Multiple experts have described the economic trajectory
    resulting from the COVID-19 recession as ``K-shaped,'' meaning
    that the recovery has occurred at an uneven pace for different
    income levels.
        Describe the long-term consequences of this K-shaped
    recovery, particularly as it relates to the risk that millions
    of Americans are becoming detached from the labor force. What
    impact will this have on the productive capacity of our economy
    in the future?

    A.1. The K-shaped recovery reflects that millions of Americans
    are currently suffering. Around 24 million adults say their
    household sometimes or often didn't have enough to eat in the
    last 7 days, which impacts between 9 and 12 million children.
    One in five adult renters are behind on rent. Women are
    dropping out of the labor force partly because of increased
    domestic burdens. We know that economic insecurity, hunger,
    rent insecurity, and labor force detachment all have long-term
    impacts not just for workers and their families, but our
    economy overall. It is too soon to know the long-term economic
    implications of the pandemic, but if we do not find a way to
    include all productive workers in our recovery, we will not be
    fully utilizing all of the talent we have in this country to
    get us back on a path of robust economic growth.

    Q.2. How will you measure the success of our recovery going
    forward?

    A.2. Too often we measure the success of our economy in average
    outcomes or headline numbers. We need to look at how outcomes
    vary for different types of workers, households, and geographic
    areas (among others) as well.

    Q.3. What structural changes do you believe should be made to
    our economic system to ensure equitable recoveries in future
    recessions?
    A.3. Our frayed safety net means that millions of people were
    suffering economically even before the pandemic-induced
    recession. One change we should consider is making more of our
    safety net ``automatic'' in the sense that programs (such as
    extended/enhanced UI) dial on during times of recession and
    dial off as the economy recovers. In addition, we need to make
    sure our economy works for everyone by increasing the
    availability of fulfilling jobs and ensuring that no one falls
    through the cracks.

    Q.4. Do you believe the current structure of our financial
    system has contributed to economic inequality?
    A.4. As a member of President Obama's Council of Economic
    Advisers, I saw what can happen when our financial system
    fails. Good financial regulations level the playing field while
    supporting a forward-looking economy. A well-functioning and
    well-regulated financial system is an integral part of a market
    economy. We need financial regulations that ensure that
    problems on Wall street do not become problems for Main Street.

    Q.5. If so, what are some ways that financial regulation can be
    used to address these inequalities?
    A.5. I want to be mindful of the independence of our financial
    regulators. But I share the goals of addressing economic
    inequality and ensuring that our economic system is working for
    everyone, not just those at the top of the income ladder. If
    confirmed, I would look forward to working with you on these
    issues, which are priorities for this Administration.

    Q.6. Millions of Americans lack access to traditional financial
    service products. What options should policymakers explore to
    foster a more inclusive banking system?
    A.6. This year we have seen how lack of access to traditional
    financial service products can hurt families, and also how it
    can make it harder for the Federal Government to get aid to
    them in times of need. I look forward to engaging on the
    barriers to accessing traditional financial service products if
    confirmed as Chair.

    Q.7. What do you believe are the greatest risks to financial
    stability?
    A.7. Increased inequality and an uneven playing field create an
    environment in which economic risks can emerge that threaten
    our entire economy. One way to ensure that we leave the
    pandemic behind with a stable financial system is to support
    the Federal Reserve in its efforts to protect the vital sources
    of credit that allow small businesses and local governments to
    pay their day-to-day bills.

    Q.8. How do you view the problem of ``Too Big To Fail'' and the
    risks posed by consolidation in the banking industry?
    A.8. As a member of President Obama's Council of Economic
    Advisers during the financial crisis, I saw the U.S. economy
    come close to ruin following the failures and near-failures of
    large, interconnected bank holding companies and nonbank
    financial companies. It is important that we do not allow such
    risks to emerge in our financial system again.

    Q.9. More than half of hourly workers get their schedules with
    less than a week's notice, making it hard for workers to figure
    out child care, go back to school, or have some financial
    security. Would addressing unstable, unpredictable, and rigid
    scheduling practices--especially for low-wage workers--benefit
    workers and families?
    A.9. We have seen increasing evidence in recent years of the
    difficulties that unpredictable schedules cause for workers and
    families. In particular, when companies impose erratic
    schedules, it can make it hard for workers to get ahead while
    also taking care of themselves and their families. If
    confirmed, I look forward to working with you on this important
    issue.
                                    ------

                   RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF
                SENATOR VAN HOLLEN FROM CECILIA E. ROUSE

    Q.1. There are now 4 million long-term unemployed workers, and
    long-term unemployment increased more in October of 2020 than
    in any other month on record. The longer someone is unemployed,
    the harder it is for them to ever find a job, and the lower
    their wages will be if they do find a job. Long-term
    unemployment is devastating to workers and their families, and
    it causes permanent scarring on our entire economy if these
    workers drop out of the workforce permanently.
        You have been a leader in recognizing the terrible costs of
    long-term unemployment for both jobless workers and the overall
    economy. Austan Goolsbee, who chaired President Obama's Council
    of Economic Advisers, said you were, ``way ahead of everyone on
    the issues of the longterm unemployed.''
        As you know, long-term unemployment was a chronic problem
    for our economy even before the pandemic, which is why I
    introduced the Long-Term Unemployment Elimination Act. The bill
    would create good-paying, year-long jobs for long-term
    unemployed workers, and fund training and supportive services
    to address the barriers keeping people out of the workforce.
        When the pandemic made long-term unemployment an even more
    urgent crisis, I joined forces with other Senators who have
    also been leading the charge to create jobs for disadvantaged
    workers--Senators Ron Wyden, Tammy Baldwin, Michael Bennet, and
    Cory Booker--to introduce the Jobs for Economic Recovery Act.
    This bill combines our ideas and includes provisions to respond
    to the specific nature of the pandemic, when health and safety
    are of paramount importance.
        Dr. Rouse, we have already had very productive
    conversations about the subject of long-term unemployment. As
    chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, will you continue
    working with us on a plan to ensure that these 4 million long-
    term unemployed workers are able to get jobs as part of our
    effort to not only help the economy recover, but to build back
    better than we were before?
    A.1. I very much look forward to working with you on the issue
    of long-term unemployment. As you note, I have been concerned
    for a long time about the long-term unemployed and scarring.
    Creating good jobs that pay well has to be a priority as has
    building a system for workers who cannot secure a good job.
                  Additional Material Supplied for the Record

            LETTERS SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF NOMINEE MARCIA L. FUDGE

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            LETTERS SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF NOMINEE CECILIA E. ROUSE

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