[Senate Hearing 117-116]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                                                        S. Hrg. 117-116
 
                            TURK NOMINATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                                   to

           CONSIDER THE NOMINATION OF DAVID M. TURK TO BE THE
                       DEPUTY SECRETARY OF ENERGY

                               __________

                             MARCH 4, 2021

                               __________
                               
                               
                               
 [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                                
                               
                               
                               
                               


                       Printed for the use of the
               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
               

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
        
        
                           ______

              U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
43-822                 WASHINGTON : 2022 
        
        
        
        
               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon                    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington           JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico          STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine            JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado       CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
                                     ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas

                      Renae Black, Staff Director
                      Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
             Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
              Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
                     Darla Ripchensky, Chief Clerk
                     
                     
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West 
  Virginia.......................................................     1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from 
  Wyoming........................................................     2

                               WITNESSES

Van Hollen, Hon. Chris, a U.S. Senator from Maryland.............     3
Conrad, Hon. Kent, a Former U.S. Senator from North Dakota.......     5
Turk, David M., nominated to be the Deputy Secretary of Energy...     6

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Barrasso, Hon. John:
    Opening Statement............................................     2
    Editorial entitled ``OPINION: Rare Truths About China's Rare 
      Earths'' by the Wall Street Journal Editorial Board dated 
      3/3/2021...................................................    44
Conrad, Hon. Kent:
    Introduction.................................................     5
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
Martin, William F.:
    Letter for the Record........................................    84
Turk, David M.:
    Opening Statement............................................     6
    Written Testimony............................................     9
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    49
Van Hollen, Hon. Chris:
    Introduction.................................................     3


                            TURK NOMINATION

                              ----------                              


                        THURSDAY, MARCH 4, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:26 a.m. in 
Room SD-G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin 
III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

              STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA

    The Chairman. We meet today to consider the nomination of 
David M. Turk to be the Deputy Secretary of Energy. I want to 
welcome Mr. Turk to the Committee, and I want to thank you for 
being here this morning, sir, and for your willingness to serve 
in this important position.
    Energy is essential to all of us. We depend on it every 
minute of every day to heat our homes and offices, to power our 
factories, to light the darkness, to cook our food, to fuel our 
cars, and to power our cell phones and computers. It is an 
indispensable fabric of our civilization. It is the Department 
of Energy's (DOE) job to see that the people of this country 
have an adequate and reliable supply of energy at the lowest 
reasonable cost. The Department has many other 
responsibilities, including maintaining our nuclear deterrents, 
cleaning up Hanford and the Cold War nuclear weapons sites, and 
maintaining our scientific and technological prowess through 
the national laboratories. But its primary mission, its reason 
for being, is to promote the general welfare by assuring 
coordinated and effective administration of federal energy 
policy and programs. Next to the Secretary, the Deputy 
Secretary bears the principal responsibility for this task.
    The Deputy Secretary is the second-highest ranking officer 
in the Department and the Department's Chief Operating Officer. 
The Deputy must be prepared to act for the Secretary and 
perform all the Secretary's functions and duties in the 
Secretary's absence, and to manage the Department's wide-
ranging mission and the budget of over $35 billion.
    Mr. Turk, I am convinced that you are up to the job. You 
know the energy issues. You have spent the last four years in 
senior positions at the International Energy Agency (IEA) and 
the past 14 months as the Agency's Deputy Executive Director. 
The Executive Director of the IEA is Dr. Fatih Birol, who is 
well known to this Committee and highly regarded by members on 
both sides of the aisle. Mr. Turk has been Mr. Birol's Deputy. 
He knows the Department of Energy. Before joining the IEA, he 
spent two years as the Deputy Assistant Secretary for 
International Climate and Technology at the Department of 
Energy. Before that, he was a Deputy Assistant Secretary at the 
Department of State and a Special Assistant to the President at 
the National Security Council--and he knows Congress. He got 
his start working for Senator Conrad, who we will hear from in 
a moment, then served as Counsel to then-Senator Biden on the 
Senate Judiciary Committee, and later as Staff Director for the 
House Oversight Subcommittee on National Security and Foreign 
Affairs.
    He has spent the past 20 years serving in important jobs 
that have given him the technical knowledge and the practical 
experience in energy, national security, and management that he 
will need to help Secretary Granholm lead the Department of 
Energy. I think he is supremely well qualified and I hereby 
support his nomination.
    I will now recognize Senator Barrasso to make his opening 
statement.
    Senator Barrasso.

               STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING

    Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, 
and I also want to welcome David Turk to join us today at the 
Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. Congratulations 
on the nomination. Thank you for spending time with me 
yesterday and I thought it was a very productive discussion. I 
appreciated that.
    Our nation's energy production benefits every American, as 
we discussed yesterday. American energy keeps the lights on for 
our schools, our businesses and our homes. It powers our cars, 
our buses, our trucks, our ships, our airplanes and our trains. 
Whether it is coal, oil, natural gas, uranium, water, sun, or 
wind, the energy resources we use to generate power provide the 
backbone for our economy. Over the decades our nation has made 
great progress in improving the environmental and economic 
performance of all of these energy resources and we must never 
rest on our laurels. We must always continue to harness 
American ingenuity, investment and innovation to make our use 
of these energy resources even cleaner and more cost-effective 
and efficient for the American people.
    Last Congress I, along with my Democrat and Republican 
colleagues, worked together to enact a law that promotes carbon 
capture technologies, provides for more efficient diesel 
engines and prevents greenhouse gas emissions from air 
conditioners. This was the most significant climate change law 
to pass Congress in years and it is going to pay significant 
dividends for the environment. I look forward to working with 
Chairman Manchin, the members of this Committee, and the 
Department of Energy to build on this record of bipartisanship.
    If confirmed as Deputy Secretary of Energy, Mr. Turk is 
going to play a critical role in our nation's energy agenda. 
His experience in energy policy is extensive and it includes 
leadership positions at the International Energy Agency in 
Paris, the U.S. Department of Energy, the U.S. Department of 
State, and the National Security Council. During his career, 
Mr. Turk has worked to support the development of innovative 
energy technologies. He has specifically spoken publicly about 
the need for carbon capture technologies. I hope to hear more 
from Mr. Turk today about his support for developing innovative 
energy technologies, including carbon capture technologies. We 
also want to hear from him on how the Biden Administration can 
promote American energy exports instead of just stifling 
domestic production.
    Much of our nation's energy comes from Wyoming which is 
America's leading energy producer. It has among the largest 
reserves of energy resources in the country, produces 15 times 
more energy than it consumes, and it is the biggest net energy 
supplier among all 50 states. Energy production is the economic 
lifeblood of Wyoming. It creates good paying jobs, provides a 
critical source of revenue to state and to local governments. I 
look forward to hearing how Mr. Turk will prioritize policies 
that take advantage of the enormous energy, economic and 
national security benefits generated by our abundant fossil 
fuel resources.
    All too often, international climate efforts, such as the 
Paris Climate Agreement are designed to give other countries an 
advantage over ours. This agreement gave countries like China, 
Russia, and Iran a competitive advantage over America with 
little to no environmental benefit. If confirmed at the 
Department as Deputy Secretary of Energy, Mr. Turk must 
prioritize policies that are directly associated and focused on 
helping Americans. This is going to include energy production 
from coal, oil, natural gas, and uranium.
    The Biden Administration has already declared war on 
American energy and American energy workers. Its policies make 
the United States and our allies more vulnerable to China, also 
to Russia, also to OPEC nations. So I am not going to sit idly 
by while an Administration enforces policies that threaten my 
home state's economy and the livelihoods of so many people in 
my state and across the country. The bottom line is the United 
States will need fossil fuels well into the future. Coal, oil, 
and natural gas are not going away and America should not leave 
these assets stranded in the ground. If confirmed as Deputy 
Secretary of Energy, Mr. Turk must ensure that he and his 
colleagues at the Department recognize this reality.
    Again, thank you Mr. Chairman for calling the hearing. I do 
look forward to Mr. Turk's testimony and having an opportunity 
to further explore and discuss the issues with the nominee.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    At this point, I will recognize Senator Van Hollen to 
introduce Mr. Turk to the Committee.
    Senator Van Hollen.

              STATEMENT OF HON. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM MARYLAND

    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Chairman Manchin and Ranking 
Member Barrasso, members of the Committee. I appreciate the 
opportunity to introduce to you the President's nominee to be 
Deputy Secretary of Energy, Mr. David Turk. While Mr. Turk was 
born in South America and raised in Illinois, I think I can 
speak for all my fellow Marylanders when we say we are proud to 
claim him, his wife, Emily, and their three children as 
Marylanders. As you have heard from the Chairman's introductory 
biography, Mr. Turk has a wide range of experience directly 
relevant and important to this position, and I highly recommend 
him to you as the next Deputy Secretary.
    I have also had the privilege of getting to know Dave 
personally over the years. I first met Dave more than a dozen 
years ago when he served as the Staff Director of the National 
Security Oversight Subcommittee in the House of 
Representatives. He worked diligently with both sides of the 
aisle. I had a chance to travel with him on official CODELs and 
participate in hearings organized by the subcommittee. And 
throughout that period, he showed a seriousness of purpose and 
a focus on key national security issues, and recognized the 
importance of working with our allies to pursue our national 
security interests. I always found him to be well organized, 
diligent, and responsive to members on the Committee from both 
sides of the aisle. His national security experience is going 
to be very important in this job. As you indicated, Mr. 
Chairman, a big part of the Department of Energy portfolio is 
overseeing our nuclear weapons arsenal, advancing our nuclear 
non-proliferation goals, and promoting international nuclear 
safety. And Mr. Turk's experience in the House and elsewhere 
will serve him very well for this mission.
    Beyond his experience in the House, Mr. Turk had a number 
of other positions that are directly relevant to this position. 
We are going to be hearing from Senator Conrad, and I want to 
thank the Senator for his great service and for being here 
today to speak on behalf of David Turk. Mr. Turk also served on 
the Judiciary Committee for then-Senator Joe Biden. Beyond 
Capitol Hill, he had posts in the White House on the White 
House National Security Council, at the State Department, and 
as you indicated, Mr. Chairman, at the Department of Energy, 
where he served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary for 
International Climate and Technology. Most recently, he has 
channeled his skills toward helping governments, industry, and 
communities across the world make informed, 21st century energy 
choices in his capacity at the International Energy Agency. He 
has worn many hats during his five-year tenure there, most 
recently as Deputy Executive Director, and that position has 
given him, literally, a global vantage point with respect to 
the challenges of energy and, of course, of climate change.
    As a co-sponsor of Senator Barrasso's legislation that he 
mentioned with respect to carbon sequestration and other 
measures to reduce emissions from greenhouse gases, I can 
assure members that Mr. Turk will work closely with us on that 
agenda. In fact, while his resume indicates that he has spent 
his career in various capacities here in our nation's capital 
and, of course, in his most recent post overseas, Dave grew up 
in a town in Illinois, Rock Falls. I know from my many 
interactions with him that he has never forgotten those small 
town roots, and in this job at the Department of Energy, he is 
always going to be focused on working Americans, no matter 
where they live in the United States of America--East Coast, 
West Coast, and all points in between, plus Alaska and Hawaii.
    Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Barrasso, members of the 
Committee, I strongly urge you to support the nomination of 
David Turk.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Van Hollen.
    Now I want to recognize our former colleague, Senator 
Conrad, to introduce Mr. Turk. Senator Conrad represented North 
Dakota in the Senate from 1987 to 2013, and served as either 
Chairman or Ranking Member of the Budget Committee for 12 
years. Perhaps more to the point this morning, he was a member 
of this Committee from 1987 to 1993, and he played a major role 
in enacting the landmark Energy Policy Act of 1992.
    Senator Conrad, we are, sir, truly honored and pleased to 
welcome you back to the Committee this morning, and I want to 
assure you that your years of hard work trying to balance the 
budget and your example of bipartisanship have not been 
forgotten.
    Senator Conrad.

 STATEMENT OF HON. KENT CONRAD, FORMER U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH 
                             DAKOTA

    Senator Conrad. Thank you, Chairman Manchin. Very kind 
words; I appreciate it. As I look back on my time with you and 
Ranking Member Barrasso, it is good to see you.
    Senator Barrasso. We always liked Lucy better than you.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Conrad. That has always been my experience in life. 
So good to see you all. I did love serving on the Energy 
Committee. You know, they made me leave when I went to the 
Finance Committee, or I would have stayed for my entire time 
because I truly loved serving on the Energy Committee. And I 
want to thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, for this 
opportunity to introduce David Turk who, as you know, has been 
nominated to be Deputy Secretary of Energy. Dave worked with me 
for three years, actually more than three years, as Legislative 
Assistant and as my Counsel. I can tell you he did a superb 
job. I very much enjoyed working with Dave, as did all of our 
staff and everybody that worked with him. He's the kind of 
person you want in a position of responsibility.
    Senator Van Hollen mentioned that Dave grew up in a small 
town in Illinois, and he has those small town, Midwestern 
values. Dave Turk is honest. He is hard working. He is somebody 
that works well with others and appreciates the fundamental 
need to get things done. That is really what drives Dave Turk 
and motivates him to get things accomplished to improve the 
lives of the people that he works for. And he knows, in this 
position, he is working for the people of the United States. 
Because of his long service in Congress, he also appreciates 
that Congress is the Article I branch of our government. He 
understands the critical role it plays in our constitutional 
structure, and he learned full well the importance of working 
together, of working with others. I can tell you if he is 
confirmed, he will be laser-focused on improving the lives of 
the people of this country. That will be his focus. He will 
also be results-oriented. One of the things I can say about 
Dave in having worked with me is, if you wanted a job to get 
done, you gave it to Dave Turk, because the job is going to get 
done and it is going to get done well.
    Finally, let me just say, Dave is also a very good 
basketball player, and I found that makes a big difference in 
life, especially if you can rebound. So let me just say to my 
colleagues, my former colleagues, I urge you to vote for the 
confirmation of Dave Turk. I urge you to do it quickly. You 
will never be disappointed. You will enjoy working with this 
man and you will appreciate the attitude he brings to his work.
    Thank you so much. It is good to see you all again.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Conrad. It is good to see 
you and hear from you also, as always.
    The rules of the Committee, which apply to all nominees, 
require that they be sworn-in in connection with their 
testimony. Mr. Turk, if you would please stand and raise your 
right hand.
    Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to 
give to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God?
    Mr. Turk. I do.
    The Chairman. You may be seated, sir.
    Before you begin your statement, I will ask three questions 
addressed to each nominee before this Committee. Will you be 
available to appear before this Committee and other 
Congressional committees to represent departmental positions 
and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
    Mr. Turk. I will.
    The Chairman. Are you aware of any personal holdings, 
investments, or interests that could constitute a conflict of 
interest or create the appearance of such of a conflict should 
you be confirmed and assume the office to which you have been 
nominated by the President?
    Mr. Turk. No.
    The Chairman. Are you involved or do you have any assets 
held in a blind trust?
    Mr. Turk. No.
    The Chairman. You are now recognized to make your 
statement, so you can proceed. Thank you.

STATEMENT OF DAVID M. TURK NOMINATED TO BE THE DEPUTY SECRETARY 
                           OF ENERGY

    Mr. Turk. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso, 
distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to appear before you today. Let me also thank 
Senators Van Hollen and Conrad, not only for their incredibly 
kind introductory remarks, but more importantly, for their 
remarkable years of public service. It is a distinct honor to 
be before a Committee with such a proven record of bipartisan 
accomplishments. Let me congratulate all those involved in the 
groundbreaking Energy Act of 2020, in particular, especially 
then-Chairman Murkowski, then-Ranking Member Manchin and all 
the Senators who were involved in that extraordinary effort. 
Last year also saw passage of Senator Barrasso's HFC bill that 
he mentioned, one of the most important pieces of climate 
legislation in recent years.
    To introduce myself, I thought I'd focus on five key 
formative experiences in my life that should I be honored 
enough to be confirmed, I would take with me as Deputy 
Secretary of Energy.
    First, as has already been mentioned, I grew up in a small 
Rust Belt town that I suspect most of you have never heard of, 
Rock Falls, Illinois. Throughout my childhood the mill, which 
is what we referred to simply as the largest employer, laid off 
more and more workers each year of my childhood. Through no 
fault of their own, steady paychecks were no longer steady, 
families were thrown into disarray and the entire community was 
left to fend for itself.
    Second, in high school I was selected to represent my home 
State of Illinois at a DOE summer program at Brookhaven 
National Lab. From this very first experience I could tell that 
DOE was a very special organization and this first impression 
was only reinforced when I became a full-time Department 
employee.
    Third, my first job, as was been mentioned, was working in 
DC for Senator Kent Conrad who instilled in all of us on his 
team a laser-like focus to help his fellow North Dakotans. 
Through that experience, I learned how passionate public 
service can make a real difference in real people's lives.
    Fourth, I had the privilege to serve as a Special Assistant 
to the President on the National Security Council. My role was 
to coordinate national security issues between the Congress and 
all of the agencies of the Executive Branch. I learned that 
America is always stronger when Article I and Article II can 
work together.
    And fifth and most recently, I served as Deputy Executive 
Director of the International Energy Agency under a visionary 
leader in Dr. Fatih Birol. If confirmed, I very much look 
forward to being Deputy to another visionary leader in 
Secretary Granholm. I learned that a successful deputy needs to 
put ego aside to support the leader, to lift up all others and 
to follow through. If confirmed, I would bring all of these 
experiences to the job of Deputy Secretary of Energy.
    The expansive portfolio of DOE and its 110,000 employees 
can, at first, look a bit like a Frankenstein's monster. But 
upon closer inspection, I would argue there's a clear thread 
throughout. DOE, put simply, is where our country turns for 
solutions to our country's toughest problems.
    Let me elaborate on what I mean of this critical role of 
DOE as America's catalyst for solutions. The Department must 
maintain a safe, secure, reliable nuclear stockpile, prevent 
nuclear weapons proliferation, clean up waste from our nuclear 
weapons programs of the past. The Department has been and must 
remain the scientific powerhouse, not only of the country, but 
of the world. The Department must be an indispensable solutions 
catalyst to defeat climate change, one of the most daunting 
challenges ever facing humanity. DOE must help catalyze a full 
range of clean energy, affordable, resilient technologies for 
us to be able to reach net zero emissions in just a few short 
decades. And the Department needs to be laser-focused like 
never before to help communities in transition. We must ensure 
we do not leave towns like Rock Falls, Illinois, alone without 
real world opportunities and a fair chance to succeed. I firmly 
believe that the greatest country in the history of the world 
can solve climate change, build back better, out-compete others 
and leave no workers and no communities behind and we must do 
all of these urgently and at the same time.
    If confirmed, I look forward to partnering with each of you 
as you serve your constituents and your communities. For the 
Department to be successful, it needs the type of bipartisan 
leadership, partnership, that you all have shown in the Energy 
Act of 2020.
    Thank you again for giving me the opportunity to appear 
before you today. I very much look forward to your questions 
and to do everything I can to help.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Turk follows:]
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]     
    
    The Chairman. Thank you, sir.
    I will start the questioning. My first question will be, 
the United States became a net total energy exporter in 2019, 
which means we were energy independent for the first time in 67 
years, in large part due to the surge of domestic oil and gas 
production. Do you believe it is in our best interest to 
maintain our energy independence?
    Mr. Turk. Yes.
    The Chairman. I believe that we must meet the climate 
challenge with innovation, not elimination. I say that in 
recognition that we must reduce emissions in all sectors of the 
economy domestically, but also around the world. I have said 
this many times, this is global climate. It is not North 
American climate or United States climate. I also believe it is 
of paramount importance that we maintain our energy 
independence. We can continue to develop innovative solutions 
that will reduce our carbon emissions and get us to net-zero by 
2050 while taking advantage of all the energy resources that we 
have at our disposal.
    Do you agree with the all-of-the-above energy strategy for 
our country, and also that we can do it with investments in 
technology?
    Mr. Turk. Well, as we had a chance to talk, Mr. Chairman, 
and thank you for talking with me before the hearing and so 
many other Senators on this Committee, having worked at the 
International Energy Agency and elsewhere, I'm a firm believer, 
as you said very eloquently in your opening statements, that 
energy is good. Energy is what powers our community and 
provides livelihoods for Americans across the country. It's 
emissions that are the challenge. So, we need to promote 
energy. We need to promote energy just as you said and we also 
need to focus on emissions and this is where technologies like 
CCUS, Ranking Member Barrasso mentioned, others mentioned as 
well. We need to have that full assortment of tools in the tool 
belt on energy.
    The Chairman. Well also, when you put your energy budget 
together, working with Secretary Granholm, will you commit to 
including the $35 billion that we authorized in the Energy Act 
last year for technology so we can find and innovate the new 
technologies that we will be able to use for an all-of-the-
above strategy, including all of our fossil, in the cleanest 
way to meet these emissions reductions?
    Mr. Turk. Well, absolutely. And again, congratulations to 
you, Senator Murkowski, all involved in the Energy Act of 2020 
which provides a terrific road map for what the Department 
should be focusing on and a wide range of technologies and 
sectors when it comes to energy. And I'm a firm, firm believer, 
as you are, Mr. Chairman, on innovation. I've spent much of my 
career focused on innovation, the power of innovation, to 
really have solutions for these challenges that face our 
country.
    The Chairman. Your background working at the U.S. State 
Department and Department of Energy, as well as the IEA, has 
given you an important perspective on the United States' role 
in energy and technology markets worldwide. In recent months, 
China has announced increasing ambition on addressing its 
greenhouse gas emissions, and data showed that its energy 
investments across technologies are significant. President 
Biden has already signaled his interest in reclaiming U.S. 
leadership on the global climate stage, but existing 
competition in markets and our reliance on foreign supply 
chains--I repeat that, on foreign supply chains--may be our 
biggest obstacle to meeting our desires.
    How do you see the Department of Energy playing a role in 
boosting U.S. competitiveness and leadership on providing 
climate solutions to a global energy market?
    Mr. Turk. Well, I completely agree with you, Mr. Chairman. 
The U.S. is a leader in the world, needs to be a leader, needs 
to be the leader the world, including when it comes to the 
technologies of the future. And we do need to approach other 
countries, whether it's China or others with our eyes wide 
open, with a very pragmatic streak and look forward, look for 
promoting the U.S. interest of companies, communities. One 
issue in particular, and I hope we talk about it further today, 
is critical minerals. Critical minerals are important now, will 
be even more important into the future as well. And we need to 
get our act together as a U.S. Government, working Article I, 
Article II, to make sure we have a full supply chain of 
critical minerals, the jobs associated with it, the national 
security benefits that flow from it as well.
    The Chairman. That is great.
    I have one final question. I think we can all agree that 
the national labs are the Department's crown jewels, and I am 
so proud to have the National Energy Technology Laboratory 
(NETL) in Morgantown, West Virginia. This is merely personal to 
me, but NETL is unique among the labs in that it is the only 
government-owned, government-operated lab. As a result, it 
lacks some of the flexibility that some of the other labs 
enjoy, such as control over its own hiring. And right now, I 
understand there are more than 30 vacancies awaiting 
Secretarial approval to fill at NETL.
    Will you turn your attention to getting these hires 
approved at NETL? Will you work with me to ensure NETL has the 
authority over its human resources needed to put it on a level 
footing, a level playing field, with the other 16 labs?
    Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. NETL is one of the 
crown jewels of our crown jewels in our national lab system. 
It's incredibly important. And as, if I'm confirmed as the 
Deputy Secretary of Energy, my job as the COO of the agencies 
to make sure the trains run on time or supporting the 
incredibly passionate, gifted folks at NETL and our other 
national labs. So I would absolutely love to work with you, 
work with your staff, to make sure NETL has all the full 
authorities and tools that it needs.
    The Chairman. Well, if we can look at the hiring situation 
they have and the positions that have been unfilled for far too 
long, I would appreciate that.
    Senator Barrasso.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I have just a couple of short questions. It is a series of 
them. I asked them previously to Secretary Granholm and just, 
the U.S. is the world's largest oil and gas, natural gas, 
producer. On balance, good thing or bad thing?
    Mr. Turk. Good thing.
    Senator Barrasso. The U.S. has, if not the lowest, then 
among the lowest energy prices in the industrialized world. On 
balance, good thing or bad thing?
    Mr. Turk. Good thing.
    Senator Barrasso. Jobs in the oil, natural gas, and coal 
sector, pay well above the national average. On balance, good 
thing or bad thing?
    Mr. Turk. Jobs are good, absolutely.
    Senator Barrasso. Oil, gas, and coal production generates 
on an annual basis billions of dollars for states, for tribes 
and for the Federal Government. On balance, good thing or bad 
thing?
    Mr. Turk. Good thing for those states to have that funding.
    Senator Barrasso. Largely because of hydraulic fracturing, 
U.S. emissions are at the lowest level since the early 1990s. 
On balance, good thing or bad thing?
    Mr. Turk. As I mentioned, energy is good. Emissions are 
bad. Whatever we can do to drive down emissions is a positive 
thing.
    Senator Barrasso. U.S. exports of oil and natural gas have 
enabled our allies to reduce their reliance on imports from our 
adversaries. On balance, good thing or bad thing?
    Mr. Turk. Good thing.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
    At her nominating hearing I asked Secretary Granholm how a 
ban on oil and gas leasing is consistent with President Biden's 
goal of unifying our country, putting Americans back to work, 
helping the economy grow. She said that the President's plan on 
building back better would create more jobs in clean energy 
than the jobs that might be sacrificed. I focus on the word 
``sacrificed.'' Do you believe that the jobs of American oil 
and gas workers need to be sacrificed?
    Mr. Turk. So we need to focus on jobs, as I said in my 
opening statement, with a laser focus. And we are in the middle 
of an energy transition going on, not only in Wyoming, but 
states not only in our country, but in our world. And this is 
not going to be easy, it's going to require focus day in and 
day out with a sense of urgency to not only have the jobs our 
communities need today, but to have the jobs for decades to 
come as well.
    Senator Barrasso. Do you believe that each of these workers 
whose job may be sacrificed as a consequence of these policies 
are going to be able to regain employment at or above their 
previous salary and benefits and be able to remain in their 
communities? Because you talked about your own experience in 
Illinois.
    Mr. Turk. Well, absolutely, and having grown up in a small 
town, a Rust Belt town, I saw what job losses meant, not only 
for the people whose paychecks were lost, but the families and 
the communities and the businesses that depended on that 
funding. And I think it's not only a responsibility of 
government from a practical perspective, but I think it's a 
moral responsibility to work with communities across the 
country and make sure that we have the opportunities and the 
fair chance that all Americans deserve. Again, this is not 
going to be easy. I don't think there's any quick fixes here. I 
think this is going to require an awful lot of work and, 
hopefully, collaboration between Congress and the Executive 
Branch.
    Senator Barrasso. You know, on his first day in office, 
President Biden revoked the permit for the Keystone XL 
pipeline. As a result, a thousand workers lost their jobs and 
about 10,000 future jobs that would have been created to finish 
the pipeline ended up getting canceled. Last month, President 
Biden failed to impose sanctions on any additional companies 
building the Nordstream II pipeline. You have been spending 
time in Europe. You know that is the pipeline that is going to 
Europe. It is a natural gas pipeline that is going to enable 
Russia to gain a position of dominance on a number of our 
allies in Europe, and it is going to ensure the Russian workers 
keep their jobs.
    Yesterday 40 Senators, 40 of us, sent a letter urging 
President Biden to impose sanctions on entities involved with 
Nordstream II. So Mr. Turk, why is President Biden favoring 
Russian workers and Russian energy over American workers and 
American energy when it comes to pipelines?
    Mr. Turk. Well, I think what we need to be focused on is, 
as you mentioned, Ranking Member Barrasso, real world jobs, not 
just the eye in the sky thinking--pie-in-the-sky thinking and, 
especially for pipeline workers, we can build CO2 
pipelines. I had a terrific conversation with Senator Hoeven 
about some interesting efforts to bring some ethanol plants in 
the Midwest and pipe up that CO2 to North Dakota. 
There's an opportunity there. There's huge opportunities on 
CCUS, if we can work together and really go to scale on CCUS or 
hydrogen or critical minerals, a lot of other particular 
opportunities from a jobs front, across the spectrum.
    Senator Barrasso. I just think that the sad fact is that 
President Biden's oil and gas leasing ban in the United States, 
cancellation of the Keystone XL pipeline, and his failure at 
the same time to sanction entities involved in the Nordstream 
II pipeline all add up to an energy policy that seems to favor 
Russia over the United States.
    Let me go to my last question on liquefied natural gas, 
since you just raised that. Last June before this Committee you 
were here to testify and you said, U.S. liquefied natural gas 
continues to play a unique role in enhancing market efficiency 
and supply security all around the world. Can you expand upon 
your comments for the Committee?
    Mr. Turk. Well certainly, if I'm confirmed, I understand 
the jurisdiction of the Department of Energy under the Natural 
Gas Act to examine gas export applications under the public 
interest determination. Those are specific determinations for 
specific LNG export applications and I would certainly look to 
apply that under the law as given. I also think we need to 
focus very much, and I know members of this Committee have 
focused on this, on methane emissions and natural gas. We've 
got to do a better job in the U.S. and we've got to help and 
work with and pressure other countries, Russia and others, to 
really get their acts together on methane emissions.
    Senator Barrasso. So you do see the political benefits from 
exporting American liquefied natural gas to our allies across 
the world?
    Mr. Turk. So we're a democracy. We're a leader of the free 
world. We are the leader of the free world. I think it's a much 
better outcome for Japan or others to get their energy supplies 
from the U.S. than to get it from Russia or other countries.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Cantwell [presiding]. Thank you.
    Senator Wyden.
    Senator Wyden. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    Last year, Mr. Turk, wildfires hit Oregon like a wrecking 
ball. And just last month, a winter storm left thousands of 
Oregonians with no power. I have legislation to drive power 
companies to increase their efforts to make their utility lines 
more resistant to these major weather events by increasing 
activities like undergrounding power lines, reinforcing utility 
poles, and clearing away brush. This is important to do so that 
power companies can do more and these costs do not come at the 
expense of rural ratepayers. If you are confirmed, will you 
commit to working with me to move this legislation forward and 
making our power grid more resilient?
    Mr. Turk. I think we've seen, not only in Oregon and out 
West, we've seen in Texas, we've seen in other parts of the 
country the importance of resilience of our grids. It's 
something that we need to work at. If I'm confirmed, I look 
forward to working with our terrific colleagues in the 
Department of Energy, the national labs, with experience here, 
to do exactly as you suggest, Senator.
    Senator Wyden. And one other question, if I might, with 
respect to clean energy jobs and technology. In both of them, 
and I have enjoyed talking with you about this, Mr. Turk, both 
grid resilience and clean energy jobs in technology are going 
to take bringing science-based decision-making back to the 
Department of Energy. I believe you are going to do that with 
Secretary Granholm, and that is why I am going to be supporting 
your nomination.
    Now, in addition to grid resilience, we talked about clean 
energy and how it and climate change, addressing climate 
change, go hand in hand. And together, if you do them right, 
you create high skill, high wage, clean energy jobs. Now, the 
Department of Energy, with its research and vast array of 
technologies, is poised to not only lower its emissions, but to 
mobilize a workforce as well. Tell us a little bit about how 
you would use these new technologies to create new clean energy 
jobs.
    Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Senator and thank you for 
spending some time talking with me, not only on basketball 
which is a passion we both share but more generally----
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Wyden. ----won last night.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Turk. Good.
    Just a few thoughts responding to your questions. First, on 
science-based decision-making, I've worked in a variety of 
different jobs throughout my career, national security, energy, 
et cetera and one thing from the International Energy Agency, 
my most recent, my current employer, it is a data-driven 
organization. The challenges that we face in the U.S. on 
energy, on climate change, are too important not to base our 
decision-making on solid facts, on solid data, on solid 
analysis. So I completely agree with that point.
    And then, secondly, we are in the midst of a clean energy 
revolution. It's incredibly exciting to see the price points 
and where they've come on solar, on wind, on a range of clean 
energy technologies. We need a wide array of energy 
technologies. And the jobs associated with those clean energy 
technologies. If we're smart, and this is not going to be 
something that's easy or going to happen overnight, we're going 
to have to work at it day in and day out, but it's something 
I'm particularly eager for, if I'm confirmed to be the Deputy 
Secretary of Energy.
    Senator Wyden. Well, there are a variety of paths for 
getting there. As you know and we talked about, there are 44 
separate tax breaks for energy. Many of those breaks date back 
to yesteryear, and I have an effort to collapse those 44 into 
3. And so, there are a variety of strategies we are going to 
want to work with you and Secretary Granholm on.
    I have a little bit of time left, but I want to shift to 
another hat that I wear on the Intelligence Committee, and that 
is the need to address the challenge of cybersecurity. I think 
we have seen, and saw it again just a matter of weeks ago, that 
some of the challenges are with countries who certainly do not 
always wish us well. So tell us, if you would, about some of 
your priorities. What are the couple of things you want to work 
on in the cybersecurity area right out of the gate?
    Mr. Turk. Well thank you, first of all, for your 
chairmanship of the Finance Committee which is incredibly 
important on all sorts of issues, but especially on the tax 
incentives or others, kinds of incentives that the Finance 
Committee has jurisdiction in. I know the 48C piece of 
legislation on manufacturing incentives was introduced recently 
by Chairman Manchin, Senator Stabenow, that's another exciting 
tool in the tool belt, if I could.
    Completely agree with you, Senator, on cybersecurity. It's 
a challenge for us today and it's going to be an increasing 
challenge for us in the coming days, weeks and months as well. 
It's an issue I focused on in a variety of different previous 
experiences. I think it's something that we need to look by 
building grid resiliency in by design. This is something that 
there's a very important technology component to it, but it's a 
very important procedures and practice perspective, not only 
from the Federal Government, but working with private 
utilities, companies, so that everybody builds digital 
resilience in. There are going to be attacks. There are attacks 
on a daily basis, on an hourly basis to our grids. We've just 
got to get ahead of the curve as much as we possibly can. And 
the Department of Energy has some terrific capabilities, 
including in the national labs, to work with the Department of 
Homeland Security, the White House and others to be a part of 
the solution here.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    Senator Wyden. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and thank you for 
being with us, sir, and for your willingness to serve, if 
confirmed.
    In some parts of the world, including many parts of Asia, 
coal generally and a type of coal that burns dirtier than what 
much of what we produce in Utah and in other parts of the 
United States still makes up an overwhelming majority of the 
energy mix. In light of the fact that they are burning a lot of 
that to make energy in Asia, do you think that in order to 
bring down emissions in the short- to mid-term, that we are 
going to need to continue to export LNG and, in some instances, 
cleaner burning coals like those we have in Utah?
    Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Senator, for the question. And 
as I've mentioned, I'm a firm believer that energy is good. 
It's emissions that we really have to focus on. And CCUS is a 
technology, other potential solutions as well. I look forward, 
if I'm confirmed, to working with you, working with other 
Senators who are interested in those technologies to try to 
really bring them to scale. We've only had the tip of the 
iceberg on CCUS technologies. We really need to get going with 
that.
    Senator Lee. What about LNG though? On the LNG component 
though, it would be better I would imagine for the environment 
if there were countries that are still relying primarily on 
coal for generating electric power to start burning natural gas 
rather than coal, particularly the dirtier coal, would it not?
    Mr. Turk. So under the Natural Gas Act the Department of 
Energy needs to make a national interest determination if it's 
for gas, LNG, going to a non-free trade association country and 
one of the things that should be taken into account, along with 
a lot of other things, is what is that gas displacing or 
substituting for where that gas is going? If it's going to 
countries, Caribbean countries, others where it's diesel or 
where it's coal, then you would have a net positive in terms of 
the climate benefit on that. But it's a very particularized 
determination.
    Senator Lee. Right.
    I guess I am just trying to understand, in that 
circumstance, if that is what we would be replacing why 
wouldn't we want to export it? If there is demand for a U.S. 
product and that U.S. product would be better for the 
environment, what would be the downside of allowing it to be 
exported?
    Mr. Turk. So again, it's looking at each application, the 
particular circumstances of that application. If I'm confirmed, 
I would certainly be part of that effort trying to look at it 
in that particular circumstance.
    Senator Lee. Yes, no, no, I get that. I am just trying to 
imagine what that circumstance might be, if you looked at one 
and said no, this isn't going to go. What sort of circumstance 
might get you there?
    Mr. Turk. Well again, I don't--I've not been confirmed yet. 
I hope I would have the support of this Committee and Senators 
to take into that job and I think we need to see the particular 
circumstances. I certainly wouldn't want to prejudge any 
particular circumstances coming before the Department.
    Senator Lee. Do you support an administrative moratorium on 
oil and gas leasing on federal lands?
    Mr. Turk. So this is a Department of Interior jurisdiction. 
I understand it's a pause. It's on federal lands. It's not on 
state and local lands. And it doesn't impact current leases and 
there are a backlog of those leases going on as well. So from 
the Department of Energy perspective, I think we're a solutions 
catalyst. I think it's a phenomenal department, I hope to be a 
part of again. And I think the Department of Energy role here 
is to try to promote technology solutions to try to use its 
levers so that we have a full swath of clean energy 
technologies, have a full swath of job opportunities, whether 
it's critical minerals, CCUS hydrogen, full range of 
opportunities.
    Senator Lee. Okay. On that topic of the full range of 
opportunities, one of President Biden's objectives is renewable 
energy and a lot of his objectives for renewable energy are 
going to require mineral access and mineral production. Do you 
support the domestic extraction and production of minerals?
    Mr. Turk. So I think critical minerals is a huge 
opportunity space for the U.S. A, to get out and improve our 
national security because we're relying too much on some of 
those national critical minerals from countries, China, the 
Congo, et cetera. An average electric vehicle uses five times 
the critical minerals as an internal combustion engine.
    Senator Lee. Right.
    Mr. Turk. So critical minerals, even more important. So I 
think we need to work on the full supply chain, sustainable 
mining----
    Senator Lee. And so far as you need those minerals and 
those minerals have got to come from somewhere, I think it is 
safe to say that the United States has better environmental 
restrictions in place than many, perhaps most, in some cases 
all, of the other countries from which we could obtain them. It 
seems to me that it would be better to get those here, given 
that it is done in a much more environmentally responsible 
fashion here. Do you disagree with that?
    Mr. Turk. So I think there's a very compelling national 
security case. There's a compelling jobs case. Of course, there 
are other agencies, other departments that will be making 
decisions on this issue. Department of Energy is part of the 
table entering into those discussions. And if I'm confirmed, I 
look forward to doing what we can from the Department to have, 
as Secretary Granholm so eloquently has put it, have a real 
plan on critical minerals, all the way through the supply chain 
and be very aggressive about that. And very much look forward 
to working with you, Senator, on that and others who are 
interested in that issue.
    Senator Lee. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Lee.
    Mr. Turk, congratulations on your nomination. I wanted to 
go over a few very important issues for us in the State of 
Washington, particularly at Hanford. There have been some 
changes in how the defense contracts work, particularly with 
subcontractors. One of the goals I think we have is to have a 
more efficient and effective regime. In the long-term, I think 
it will probably be a positive thing, but in the short-term, we 
are seeing some loss of small businesses because of this.
    Will you commit to work with us on these issues to make 
sure that during this time of the pandemic, we are not losing a 
core infrastructure? The whole reason why this is important is, 
nobody wants this to be all about big, prime contractors. 
People want other small businesses in the tri-cities to get 
parts of the defense contracts. If the change we are making is 
about more efficiency, but in the end, gets rid of this layer 
of small businesses and they are not there to do the 
subcontracting work, it is not going to be a positive result. 
Will you work with us to ensure a smoother implementation and 
to help those small business and the small business 
infrastructure of the tri-cities?
    Mr. Turk. Well, absolutely, Senator Cantwell and thank you 
for your years of focus on what is the largest cleanup site and 
incredibly complicated in the DOE's jurisdiction. I know it's a 
priority for you. It will be a priority for me if I'm confirmed 
as Deputy Secretary. And the particular----
    Senator Cantwell. Right.
    I am going to ask you a couple more questions, sorry.
    Mr. Turk. No worries.
    Senator Cantwell. Are you committed to proposing funding 
for Hanford that aligns with the tri-party agreement 
milestones, and do you commit to meeting all the tri-party 
agreement milestones?
    Mr. Turk. I know there's been a lot of frustration with the 
previous administration to lowball their funding requests here 
in a way that's not helpful for the process and I'd certainly 
look forward to working with Secretary Granholm to make sure 
that we have the kind of funding, the kind of budgeting to be 
helpful. And just on your particular circumstances in Hanford, 
I want to get to that, absolutely look forward to working with 
you on that.
    Senator Cantwell. Well, right, thank you.
    And then on HAMMER, which is a workforce continuum of 
opportunity to train the workers on the safety and security 
they need to do this job. Do you support the Hanford HAMMER 
Center?
    Mr. Turk. Well, we need to have our workers safe. We need 
to have the skills. We need to have the small businesses taken 
care of, just as you mentioned. So, yes.
    Senator Cantwell. Okay. Thank you for mentioning the 2020 
bill, and I thank my colleague for helping get grid 
modernization as part of that. I think nobody here in the 
Committee would be surprised to know that we have had 
vulnerabilities in our grid. We have all been trying to focus 
on it, but certainly the big storm that hit the United States, 
Uri, that had impacts not just in Texas, but in the upper 
Midwest, caused a lot of problems. I mean, the storm caused 
rolling blackouts. Everybody is hearing the stories about 
Texas, but in the Midwest, Midcontinent Independent System 
Operator had problems, and so did the Southwest Power Pool 
region. These are issues that people are starting to talk 
about. I think the damage from Uri is something like $100 
billion.
    One of the things we need to discuss is more resiliency and 
more effectiveness of our grid. There are people that think 
that we can invest more in transmission and interconnectivity 
to help decarbonize, but that also includes reliability and 
addressing the risk of cybersecurity that my colleague from 
Oregon was also bringing up. Do you agree with reports that 
upgrading the transmission capacity and adding new capacity 
helps us by both decarbonizing and actually helping lower 
electricity costs?
    Mr. Turk. Absolutely. The investments we need to make in 
the grid--and thank you for your leadership on this issue for 
many, many years--are absolutely critical to achieve our 
climate change objectives, to achieve our resiliency of our 
grids and to make sure that the power stays on, even in times 
of challenge. We need to do better.
    Senator Cantwell. What would you do as Deputy to help 
elevate this issue?
    Mr. Turk. So we've got phenomenal talents at the Department 
of Energy, not only at headquarters, but throughout the 
national labs, whether it's PNNL, that you know very well, or 
NREL or others, and we need to take that work. We need to work 
with our interagency colleagues. We need to work with the 
Congress and really come up with a much more robust game plan 
for how we deal with these issues. So I look very forward to 
working with you on that issue.
    Senator Cantwell. Great. Well, I definitely think we need 
to make more investments. We are going to have another round of 
discussion on infrastructure. I definitely plan on proposing 
more investments in the grid as part of those infrastructure 
goals for the United States.
    I think Senator Daines is next.
    Senator Daines. Thank you, Chairman Cantwell.
    Mr. Turk, thanks for being here today. Thanks for your 
willingness to serve. I would like to invite you out to Montana 
to see firsthand the many issues that we are talking about 
today and to follow up on a conversation that we had prior to 
this hearing. I know you have traveled a lot in your life, but 
I believe there is no place like Montana, that we have rich 
natural resources. We have a diverse energy portfolio, and I 
think we struck a good balance between natural resource jobs, 
what that does for our economy, and our tax base, as well as 
conservation.
    But I would like to start by focusing first on critical 
minerals, following up on some of the questions Senator Lee 
asked earlier. Domestic critical mineral production creates 
high paying jobs in Montana. It helps bolster our rural 
communities who are really struggling across our state. And 
importantly, as you mentioned, it strengthens U.S. national 
security. But I believe there is disconnect between the 
discussions that we were having about expanding renewable 
energy production and how we source the raw materials we will 
need to build out these new energy facilities. It takes raw 
materials. It takes raw materials that are mined from the 
earth. And there, you know, there is a movement afoot that 
wants to keep everything in the ground, coal, natural gas, oil, 
as well as all minerals and I think that is a dangerous 
ideology as we think about the future for our country. If the 
Biden Administration is serious about expanding renewable 
energy, protecting the environment, increasing good, high 
paying jobs and protecting our national security, then it 
should be serious about expanding domestic mineral production.
    Mr. Turk, you spent years working on international and 
national security issues. Do you share my concerns with the 
mineral supply chain as it relates to renewable energy?
    Mr. Turk. So the short answer is, absolutely.
    And thank you for the time that you made to have a 
conversation with me earlier. I have to say I'm incredibly 
jealous that you get to go to Montana on a regular basis. It's 
an incredibly special place. I'd be happy to come out there and 
visit with you and your constituents.
    And I couldn't agree with you more on the importance of 
critical minerals. It's not only an opportunity, as you said, 
for jobs, for well-paying jobs, throughout the supply chain, 
but I think it's a responsibility. It's a responsibility from a 
national security perspective.
    Senator Daines. One of the questions I had during the 
nomination of now-Secretary Granholm was, she agreed that it 
was important to promote responsible domestic mineral 
production for renewable energy. Would you find agreement with 
her thoughts there?
    Mr. Turk. So, as hopefully my new boss, I will agree with 
everything that she says publicly, of course. And on this, I 
certainly agree with her on that. And I would look forward, if 
I'm confirmed, to have the DOE and the labs focus their 
solutions catalyst powers to try to make sure that we can do 
the mining as environmentally friendly, as responsible as it 
possibly can so that we can have the whole chain on critical 
minerals.
    Senator Daines. And when you think about DOE, what role do 
you think they should play in securing the critical mineral 
supply chain?
    Mr. Turk. So I think DOE can have a huge role. The clean 
energy technologies of the future, the electric vehicles, as I 
mentioned, five times the amount of critical minerals. There's 
a lot of analysis that we can do. There's a lot of innovation 
that needs to take place throughout the supply chains to reduce 
costs and to make sure that these critical minerals are 
available as cheaply, as environmentally responsible as they 
can play. So I think DOE has a number of roles, important 
roles, and working with other important departments, of course.
    Senator Daines. You know, it was just last Congress, in 
fact, Chairman Manchin, myself, others on this Committee were 
successful in getting the REACT legislation signed into law. 
This bill directs DOE to help develop methods of extracting the 
rare earth elements actually from coal. If confirmed, will you 
prioritize this new bipartisan program?
    Mr. Turk. Well, congratulations on that particular piece of 
legislation and I would, if I'm confirmed, absolutely look 
forward to working with you and your staff on that.
    Senator Daines. I want to shift gears and follow up with a 
conversation that we had, the good conversation we had prior to 
this hearing regarding CCUS. The International Energy Agency, 
which you have had numerous leadership positions at since 2016, 
states and I quote, ``reaching net zero emissions will be 
virtually impossible without CCUS.'' I believe Montana can and 
should play a major role in the future development and 
commercialization of CCUS technology. As we chatted, we have a 
global responsibility as global stewards of the environment to 
ensure that we are leading in this technology because that will 
help places like China, India and others, as they think about 
the need to reduce emissions.
    My question is, under your leadership will DOE prioritize 
carbon capture technology in order to reduce emissions while at 
the same time protecting and expanding our Montana energy jobs?
    Mr. Turk. So absolutely and to get to net zero by 2050, 
which is what the President has put on the table and I 
completely support, we've got to work quickly and we've got to 
work on a wide variety of technologies. This is going to take a 
wide swath of innovation, working in technologies. CCUS is an 
incredibly important technology now. It could be even more 
impactful in the future, but we've got to go to scale, go to 
scale on it. And my hope is, as should be the case in every 
area, the United States should be leading the world on these 
technologies with all sorts of market opportunities for our 
companies as well. So I look forward to working with you on 
that as well, Senator.
    Senator Daines. Thank you, Mr. Turk.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Heinrich. Welcome, and congratulations on your 
nomination. In particular, thank you for the time you spent 
talking with me yesterday. We very much look forward to getting 
you out to New Mexico as well to visit Sandia and Los Alamos 
and WIPP. I want to focus my first question on something we 
spoke a lot about yesterday, in particular, with regard to 
current communities in oil and gas basins. I want to get your 
thoughts on the long-term role that hydrogen is going to play 
in solving some of the challenges that we currently solve with 
hydrocarbons, and in particular, the relationship between 
today's upstream oil and gas sector and the potential to use 
much of that engineering and workforce to really catch up to 
the rest of the world with respect to hydrogen?
    Mr. Turk. So thank you, first of all, for meeting with me 
before this hearing. I very much appreciated that conversation. 
And just as with Senator Daines, I'm jealous that you get to go 
to New Mexico on a regular basis. One of the favorite places I 
ever traveled with my parents was to Chaco Canyon which is just 
a remarkable place for those who have not had a chance to go 
there.
    I enjoyed our conversation, in particular, on hydrogen. As 
you know, it's a technology I focused on. I helped co-lead an 
extensive report, the most ever analysis we did at the IEA on 
hydrogen for the G20. And I think there's huge opportunities 
for hydrogen as a versatile part of the clean energy future, 
whether for hard to decarbonize industrial applications or 
long-distance freight, hydrogen has a lot of capabilities, a 
lot of qualities that lend itself toward being very useful in 
the future. We need to drive those price points down, certainly 
with green hydrogen from electrolysis which is why blue 
hydrogen, that is hydrogen with natural gas, in particular, 
with CCUS can be an incredibly important part of getting 
hydrogen at scale, clean hydrogen, carbon-free hydrogen. And as 
we analyze in our report and as we talked about, one of the key 
opportunities there to jump-start this hydrogen is look at 
where we have industrial clusters, look at where we have those 
workers who have worked on technologies that can be useful in 
hydrogen, take advantage of that, make the investments there 
and really get it to scale and use those hubs as a, really, 
jumping-off point for broader application of hydrogen.
    Senator Heinrich. Yes, I appreciate that very much. There 
is a growing interest, in particular--we have two basins in the 
state, and in particular I've seen a lot of interest coming out 
of the San Juan Basin--for making that transition to hydrogen 
and using the existing infrastructure to support that 
transition as well.
    Talk to me a little bit about transmission and how we do a 
better job of stimulating additional investment there, and the 
role that DOE can play when, obviously, much of the challenge 
there is siting, local jurisdictions, and dealing with multi-
state challenges of moving transmission across multiple 
jurisdictions. But really, what can DOE do to help us 
facilitate transmission planning more effectively and jump-
start this so that we can better match up our clean generation 
with the areas of demand?
    Mr. Turk. So I think transmission is an absolutely key 
issue that we need to focus on more, not only at DOE but in 
other parts of the Federal Government. Secretary Granholm has 
spoken extensively about this. This is an area of passion for 
her, rightfully so, and if I'm confirmed, I would certainly 
look to do whatever I can do to help on that front. We've got 
some great capabilities in the Department, including the 
national labs that have focused on transmission in the grids 
more generally and really trying to map out where we need 
transmission, how to deal with some of the issues going 
forward.
    One area at the Department that I'd be particularly eager 
to boost back up is the Policy Office at the Department of 
Energy. During Secretary Moniz's days in the Obama 
Administration, when I worked there, the Policy Office was a 
very robust office. I think it had 80 or maybe even more people 
in that office. Unfortunately, the Policy Office now is maybe 
four to five people. It's been very much shrunk back. I think 
we need to boost that up so that we can think about these 
transmission issues holistically, across the country. And then 
we need to work with FERC. We need to work with state and 
locals. We need to work with utilities and make sure that we 
don't just have nice reports, we need to actually move on the 
transmission side of things as well.
    Senator Heinrich. I appreciate your approach there, because 
it is important for DOE not to just produce reports, but to 
engage and find solutions to move these things forward.
    Senator Cantwell. Senator Murkowski.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Chair. And Mr. Turk, thank 
you for being here, but also thank you for your work with IEA 
and with our friend, I certainly consider him our friend, Dr. 
Birol. I also want to thank all of those at IEA for the 
opportunity to serve on the Global Commission on Energy 
Efficiency. That was a learning experience for me and I hope it 
was beneficial.
    I appreciate what you have shared with the Committee about 
your interest in critical minerals and the role that plays, the 
focus on the full supply chain. I think we have recognized and 
several of my colleagues have pointed out the resources that we 
have here, what we can provide and to your point, that it is 
not only about jobs, but it is a security issue as well--a 
national security and energy security. So I look forward to 
working with you on that.
    You also mentioned the Energy Act and thank you for 
recognizing the contribution that came from this Committee and 
the work that Senator Manchin and I did to facilitate that. As 
you know, within that Act, we provided some new flexibility, 
eligibility and expansion and transparency for the Title 17 
loan program. This is going to help DOE not only finance large-
scale projects and distribute funds that way but also to make 
them available to state-level entities to finance smaller 
projects. And as you know, in Alaska we either have the huge, 
huge megaproject-like proposals for a natural gas pipeline or 
we have smaller projects. We have one that I am really 
interested and excited about. It is out near Dutch Harbor. This 
is the Makushin Volcano and they are looking to tap into that 
geothermal resource there to basically displace diesel in that 
community and really work to reduce all levels of emissions.
    So the question to you is whether or not or how, I guess, 
DOE will allocate funding to these state-level financing 
entities, recognizing that that is really going to be key in 
terms of resources to, again, some of these smaller-scale 
projects. In addition to speaking to how that might be 
allocated, I guess I would like to know that you will commit to 
better understanding some of these projects that we have in 
Alaska that provide great opportunity, whether it is Makushin 
and an opportunity for folks to meet with you and share with 
you what is going on with that specific project or others. That 
takes a trip to Alaska, oftentimes, and we are happy to host 
you out there, but can you speak to the Title 17 and the 
opportunities that providing resources to our state-run 
entities can be helpful for smaller-scale projects?
    Mr. Turk. Well absolutely, Senator. And I have to say with 
my IEA hat on, thank you for all the partnership with Dr. 
Birol. The IEA is a very special organization and having you be 
such a partner, including on the Commission, was incredibly 
important. And congratulations for the Energy Act. I look 
forward to further discussions on critical minerals.
    On the loan program, and Secretary Granholm has spoken 
about this as well, I personally think this is a huge area of 
opportunity for the Department, for communities around the 
world. Just yesterday it was announced who the new Head of the 
Loan Program is going to be, Jigar Shah, who is an incredibly 
dynamic colleague and I think he'll be a terrific leader of 
that. But we've got to make the loan program and other parts of 
DOE work, not just for big projects, as you say, but for 
smaller projects in smaller communities as well. Growing up in 
a town of 9,000 people, I know what the kind of employment 
means in those kinds of communities.
    So I absolutely would love, if I'm confirmed, working with 
you, working with your staff, making changes that are necessary 
to the loan program or other parts of what DOE is working on to 
make sure everyone benefits, all countries, all states, all 
communities, can benefit from these opportunities.
    Senator Murkowski. Well, it is a considerable initiative 
and, again, we want to make it work at all levels.
    One of the things that you have indicated a great deal of 
interest in is the Arctic Energy Office. I have had an 
opportunity to speak to Secretary Granholm about this. Last 
year we worked to reestablish that. There is a pretty great 
partnership going on with the Cold Climate Housing Research 
Center and NREL, the National Renewable Energy Lab. I look at 
partnerships like that as really key to what we are going to be 
able to do with not only developing critical infrastructure 
within the Arctic but also what we are doing to help gain 
additional efficiencies, advancing the technologies that will 
allow us to do a little bit better in different spaces.
    So very quickly because we are out of time here, but what 
is your view in terms of what we can do to focus on DOE's role 
as it relates to the Arctic?
    Mr. Turk. So as we were talking a little bit before the 
hearing, I've had experience in Arctic Council activities when 
I was with the State Department. It's a shame that not more 
Americans appreciate and understand that the U.S. is an Arctic 
country, very importantly.
    Senator Murkowski. We are working on that.
    Mr. Turk. Hopefully we can make progress on that piece. I 
think the Arctic Energy Office is an incredibly important 
office. It's too small right now. We need to work on that. And 
I think there's an awful lot of partnership the Department of 
Energy already has and can have even more of. If you think of 
the energy challenges that communities in Alaska face, but also 
the huge opportunities, whether it's on critical minerals or 
elsewhere. So if I'm confirmed, I absolutely would love to work 
with you on this further.
    Senator Murkowski. Well, we would love to work with you. We 
would encourage you to consider a visit when we are all more 
able to be traveling. But many, many challenges and we would 
like to work with you again on some of the international Arctic 
policies as well.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator.
    Next we have Senator Hoeven. No, I'm sorry, we have Senator 
Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You got the ``H'' 
right.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Hirono. Mr. Turk, I ask the following two initial 
questions of every nominee who comes before any of the 
committees on which I sit.
    The first question; since you became a legal adult have you 
ever made unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed any 
verbal or physical harassment or assault of a sexual nature?
    Mr. Turk. No.
    Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered 
into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
    Mr. Turk. No.
    Senator Hirono. Mr. Turk, I was very pleased to hear you 
say that you want to restore and beef up the Policy Office, 
which has plummeted from, I think I heard you say, 80 people 
when you were there to some four or five. I am totally 
supportive of the need to make sure that our Policy Office is 
able to do what they should be doing. And also, another office 
that I am concerned about is the Energy Efficiency and 
Renewable Energy (EERE) Office, which has also declined in 
employment. I hope that you will also beef up the EERE Office.
    Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, thank you, Senator. I was the 
Deputy on the Energy Agency Review Team and we took a very 
close look at EERE. And what we saw is despite the funding 
increases that the Congress appropriated----
    Senator Hirono. Yes.
    Mr. Turk. ----to EERE over the last several years, the 
staffing levels did not increase commensurate with that 
funding. So we have a backlog right now, an opportunity to 
really bring in a huge amount of new talent in EERE. And if I'm 
confirmed, I look very much forward to being helpful to move 
that along and to get EERE fully staffed up.
    Senator Hirono. I think it is really important for this 
Department to have the staffing necessary because, as you 
noted, this is a department that should rely on facts, data, 
and information, in order to make its decisions.
    You may know that Hawaii has an ambitious goal of reaching 
100 percent renewable energy power and a carbon neutral economy 
by 2045, and DOE has been a key partner for Hawaii in 
developing and progressing toward its goals. And just as some 
of my colleagues have invited you to visit their states, I 
would invite you to come to Hawaii. One of President Biden's 
key goals is to take action on climate change and help build 
back the economy and create new, well-paying jobs for people 
working in clean energy and improving energy efficiency.
    You noted that we are in the midst of a clean energy 
revolution, and that there is a need for a wide range of energy 
technologies. And when you said that, I sensed an enthusiasm on 
your part in noting that. Can you talk a bit more about how 
this clean energy revolution can support our economic recovery 
and create high-quality jobs?
    Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Senator. I'd absolutely love to 
come visit you in Hawaii and make sure the Department is doing 
everything it can to support the opportunities there.
    I think this is a huge, huge opportunity for us. The Build 
Back Better plan and program that President Biden has put on 
the table, the Congress, of course, looking at the recovery 
part of stimulus funding after this initial bill, is a huge, 
huge opportunity for America. It's a huge opportunity to 
transform our grids, to invest in those technologies and again, 
I am enthusiastic on the wide range of technologies. There's an 
awful lot of potential technologies that can be such a critical 
part of the future, but we need to make the investments. We 
need to make the investments in the innovation. We need to have 
the partnerships with the entrepreneurs, with the companies, 
with the investors who are going to take those to scale. So I'm 
incredibly enthusiastic at this part of DOE's portfolio, I have 
to say.
    Senator Hirono. I share your enthusiasm.
    As noted, you have a wide variety of experiences, and you 
have a long record of serving in Congress, the Department of 
Energy, the State Department, the National Security Council, 
and the International Energy Agency. Can you just discuss the 
times in your career where you had to help people build 
consensus and come together, which certainly you would need to 
do as Deputy Secretary of Energy? Can you describe a time when 
you had to bring some diverse viewpoints together to build 
consensus?
    Mr. Turk. Well, it's something I enjoy doing. I've had, as 
you mentioned, a wide variety of experiences where I've had to 
do that. Maybe it comes from my parents, my two older brothers, 
younger sister, where you have to have consensus. We've got 
three kids, my wife Emily and I, you have to find common ground 
with your family as well. And as Senator Conrad said, and I 
hope this comes through, especially if I'm confirmed, all the 
talk in the world doesn't matter if you don't actually get 
something done in the real world. And so you've got to have 
discussions. You've got to listen to people. You've got to try 
to drive consensus so that we can get on with what we need to 
get on to in order to get to our carbon reduction targets, in 
order to have the kinds of jobs that we need to.
    So absolutely, throughout my career I've really focused on 
the consensus building.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you very much. It is important for 
someone in your position.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Now, Senator Hoeven.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Turk, good to 
see you today and thank you for our visit yesterday. We talked 
a lot about carbon capture and underground storage. Doctor 
Fatih Birol, your former colleague out of the IEA, said that 
CCUS is the most important technology that exists in energy 
today. And as you know, in North Dakota we are leading the way 
forward on, what I call, cracking the code which is capturing 
and storing CO2 from coal-fired electric plants, as 
well as I told you on ethanol plants.
    So my first question is, do you agree that CCUS is 
indispensable to marry the benefits of low-cost energy with 
environmental stewardship?
    Mr. Turk. Well, absolutely, Senator. And thank you for 
taking the time to talk with me a few days ago and it was 
incredibly impressive to hear all the progress when you were 
governor and as a Senator, really leading ahead of the curve on 
CCUS and really moving the envelope on that. I think it can be 
an incredibly, it already is an incredibly important 
technology, but we've really got to get to scale here. And we 
need not only the Federal Government moving in that direction, 
we need the incentives, the price signals going forward, but we 
need corporate leadership and state and local leadership on 
this as well. And thank you for all the terrific efforts you've 
done in North Dakota.
    Senator Hoeven. Well, that--your answer is going in exactly 
the right direction. It leads right into my next question that 
is, will you work with us to ensure projects that we are 
working on, whether it is Project Tundra, whether it is 
cooperative agreements between the EERC at the University of 
North Dakota and the Department of Energy, whether it is our 
efforts to make sure that we enhance 45Q and make sure that we 
can utilize the DOE and the RUS Loan Programs so that the 
plants can put this equipment in place and then, as you say, we 
can, through a partnership between the industry, our state and 
the Department of Energy, actually make this happen. Are you 
committed to making that happen?
    Mr. Turk. So absolutely, Senator. If I'm confirmed, I very 
much look forward to working with you and your staff, whether 
it's Project Tundra or the terrific partnership with the 
University of North Dakota. And let me just highlight, in 
particular, especially for you and other Senators involved in 
45Q, how important that piece of legislation is and we really 
need to get it up and running fully and take advantage of those 
incentives.
    Senator Hoeven. Right. I appreciate that you worked with my 
former colleague, Senator Conrad. It was nice to hear from him 
this morning. So I know you have been to North Dakota, I assume 
many times, but you will commit to come out to North Dakota 
and, of course, see what we are doing? I have already invited 
the Energy Secretary and she has committed to come out. But you 
will come out and see what we are doing and work with us on it?
    Mr. Turk. Any excuse I could get to come back out to North 
Dakota, Teddy Roosevelt National Park. I've been to North 
Dakota both in the summer and the winter. I think I'd prefer to 
come out in the summer, but happy to come out in the winter as 
well.
    Senator Hoeven. Well that is great. No, you can do your 
winter trip to Hawaii and then come see us in the summer. That 
would work very, very well. And again, we had a good 
conversation today. I appreciate your commitment to work with 
us on the CCUS. I just think it is an incredible opportunity 
for us to do some amazing things there.
    Pipeline infrastructure--we need transmission. We need 
pipeline infrastructure to move energy around the country 
safely and cost-effectively whether it is renewable or 
traditional energy. Are you committed in helping to develop the 
energy infrastructure we need?
    Mr. Turk. So we've got a huge opportunity on energy 
infrastructure, I think, and very much look forward, Senator, 
working with you, if I'm confirmed. And I think we have an 
opportunity with, as we discussed, CO2 pipelines, in 
particular, so that we can take emissions, the CO2 
where it's happening, whether ethanol plants or otherwise, and 
bringing it to places where there's storage opportunities. So 
eager to work with you on all of those issues.
    Senator Hoeven. And again, you recognize the value of the 
cooperative agreements and are committed to them with energy 
centers like the Energy Environmental Research Center at the 
University of North Dakota. Do you support those kind of 
partnerships with the Department of Energy?
    Mr. Turk. So I think those kind of partnerships are 
absolutely critical and as you know, we need not only smart 
people in DC, we need smart people around the country, smart 
people who grew up in their communities and know their 
communities best so that we have tailored solutions for 
particular geographies, particular communities. So I think 
those partnerships are absolutely critical.
    Senator Hoeven. And then the last area is commitment to the 
national labs and the update in the research that is necessary 
for our nuclear deterrent--committed to support that effort?
    Mr. Turk. So, completely agree. As we've talked about Minot 
Air Force Base, in particular, plays such an important role, 
two legs of the triad, just at Minot and it's an incredibly 
important part of the jurisdiction at the Department of Energy. 
And I certainly look forward to working with you, if I'm 
confirmed, to make sure that we have a safe, reliable, secure 
stockpile.
    Senator Hoeven. Good. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Turk, and I 
really do look forward to working with you.
    Thanks so much.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator King.
    Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    First, I want to emphasize something you were talking with 
Senator Murkowski about, which is partnerships. We have a 
partnership between the University of Maine and Oak Ridge 
National Laboratory on additive manufacturing and cellulosic 
materials used in additive manufacturing. It is very 
productive, and I commend it to you. I hope that is the kind of 
relationship that we can continue to maintain, support, and 
expand.
    Mr. Turk. So, thank you, Senator King and thanks for 
meeting with me as well before the hearing. I very much 
appreciated our conversation. And I think there's all sorts of 
partnerships that exist, offshore wind among the additive 
manufacturing, other areas and I very much look forward to 
strengthening those partnerships.
    Senator King. Great. I will look forward to welcoming you 
to Maine. You are going to have quite a tour between North 
Dakota, Montana, and New Mexico, and I hope you can add Maine 
to the list.
    Mr. Turk. Well, Maine is a beautiful state, Acadia National 
Park and all else in Maine. So, happy and eager to get up 
there.
    Senator King. Well, we are looking forward to it.
    Methane, I believe, is the low-hanging fruit of climate 
change. And to the extent the Department can sponsor, through 
ARPA-E or other programs, research in terms of methane control 
and capture, I think that is an enormously important part of 
the work that you can do. As you know, methane is 80 times more 
potent a greenhouse gas than CO2. It resides in the 
atmosphere for a shorter period. So if we can cut the amount of 
methane that is going into the atmosphere, that is a big deal. 
I understand that there is a project with Bridger Photonics in 
Bozeman, Montana, working on high tech ways to detect these 
leaks. That is the kind of research and development that I 
think we need, and I hope methane can be a focus of your 
attention because it is intimately related to energy production 
and energy generation.
    Mr. Turk. Well, I couldn't agree with you more. Methane not 
only needs to be a focus of the Department of Energy and if I'm 
confirmed, my focus, but frankly, all of us. It's an 
incredibly, it's incredibly frustrating that we have so much 
methane emissions in the U.S. and other countries around the 
world when we have cost-effective solutions and actually make 
money in many circumstances, so----
    Senator King. Yes, this is a place where we do not have to 
spend a fortune. It is relatively low cost in terms of the 
benefit.
    Let me move on. After methane, I think, and is equally 
important in the long-term energy picture, is storage. I do not 
think there is anything more important that you can do, along 
with research on methane, than research on storage. We need 
100-hour grid-scale storage. Once that occurs, the potential of 
renewables will be truly unlocked, and I see that as one of the 
most important things you could do. Talk to me about storage 
and where it will be on your priority list.
    Mr. Turk. So storage needs to be at the very top of the 
priority list. It's an incredibly important technology. One of 
the things I'd be particularly excited about, if I'm confirmed 
at the DOE. We've talked about these Earthshots to really try 
to have ARPA-E, the labs, the applied offices, all working 
together, seamlessly across the Department of Energy enterprise 
and Long Duration Storage Earthshots, I think, makes a ton of 
sense to make sure that we're doing everything we possibly can, 
especially with that Long Duration Storage, as you suggest.
    Senator King. Well, one other aspect of that--and this ties 
back to your current, or your most recent, occupation--is that 
I have always thought this would be something that we should be 
pursuing internationally. Why should everybody be trying to 
invent the same thing? And if there can be international 
collaboration on development of a technology that will help the 
entire world, it seems to me that the Department of Energy 
ought to also be focused on fostering that kind of 
collaboration on these joint problems.
    Mr. Turk. Well, I completely agree. The U.S. is the 
innovation powerhouse. Has been. Needs to be. But take storage, 
if we had storage solutions, long duration, cost-effective, 
storage solutions, you look at a country like India. India, 
over the next couple decades will build an additional grid the 
size of Europe on their already sizable grid. If they had 
storage solutions that allowed them to go even further in 
solar, even further in wind, then they wouldn't have to build 
so much, so many other kinds of sources that are more carbon 
intensive. So storage is a key part, not only in the U.S. but 
internationally.
    Senator King. Of course, a molecule of CO2 does 
not care what country it comes from, as far as its impact on 
the climate.
    Mr. Turk. Well, that's right. I think that's why we have 
to, the U.S. should lead here. The U.S. should lead 
ambitiously.
    Senator King. One final question for the record, because I 
am out of time. In terms of grid modernization, is the problem 
wires and poles or is it software and technology? In other 
words, is the grid inadequate physically, or is it a question 
of management and the technology of integrating new power 
sources, for example?
    Mr. Turk. So I think it's both and we need to have the 
planning to take into account the technology piece, but also 
the management piece as well and to be really holistic, forward 
thinking, building the grids of the future. We've got 
transmission issues we need to work on in parts of the country. 
We've got distributed energy resources coming on to the grid. 
We need to have the grid that can appropriately deal with 
those.
    Senator King. But the grid of the future does not 
necessarily involve lots of new wires and poles. It may involve 
more of the technology of integrating resources.
    Mr. Turk. Well, absolutely right. We need to be smart. We 
need to be smart and cost-effective about this, and the 
solutions of the past don't need to be the solutions of the 
future.
    Senator King. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Senator Lankford.
    Senator Lankford. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
    Mr. Turk, good to see you and thanks for the long 
conversation that we have already had. Let me walk through a 
couple things just to be able to get some high points here.
    How many years do you think we are going to continue to 
have the internal combustion engine used in America?
    Mr. Turk. So electric vehicles have made incredibly 
impressive strides over recent years, but it's still in the 
single digits percentage for car sales. Now some other 
countries are ahead of that. General Motors, others are making 
very ambitious electric vehicle targets, but internal 
combustion engines will certainly be with us for several more 
years.
    Senator Lankford. Yes, you have studied this for a long 
time. You have looked at some of the length of it. Is that five 
more years? Is that ten more years? Is that 50 more years? Just 
based on the studies that you have already been a part of and 
the teams you have been around.
    Mr. Turk. Well, so it's very difficult to predict these 
kinds of technologies.
    Senator Lankford. Oh yes.
    Mr. Turk. It's the price point. It's range anxiety with 
electric vehicles and certain applications. So there's a number 
of things that need to happen for electric vehicles to take 
off, like can be helpful from a climate change perspective for 
sure. So it's very difficult to predict where this is going. We 
do see some countries, Norway has about--50 percent of each 
vehicle sold in Norway is electric vehicle. Most other 
countries are in the single digits.
    Senator Lankford. Right. But still back to my same 
question, how long do you think we are going to use the 
internal combustion engine? What are the estimates that are out 
there? You have read it. What are the estimates that are out 
there? How long? And I understand there is technology that is 
very disruptive in every area on this. We talk a lot about 
electric but then hydrogen continues to say, hey, we are back 
here as well. So there is lots of other technologies that are 
rising and all of those are good. I am just asking about the 
internal combustion engine. What is your best guess on what are 
the estimates out there?
    Mr. Turk. So the way we do it at the IEA is we run 
scenarios and look at different versions of the future. What 
does that mean for this technology or that technology and they 
really range incredibly significantly. Those have been updated 
in recent time to have more electric vehicles coming on quicker 
given the corporate commitments, given the other commitments, 
but internal combustion engines certainly, you know, there's an 
issue where electric vehicles work quite well for passenger 
vehicles, more challenging for long, for freight transport as 
well. So we need solutions there.
    Senator Lankford. How many years do you think we will still 
have the internal combustion engine? That was the original 
question.
    Mr. Turk. So----
    Senator Lankford. Really not trying to be combative, just 
trying to get that number.
    Mr. Turk. Well, and I'm trying to, you know--it depends on 
a lot of decisions that we don't know from the government side, 
from the private sector side. It's certainly going to be with 
us for this decade, next decade. We'll see where the corporate 
commitments and the other government commitments are made.
    Senator Lankford. So at least 20 more years?
    Mr. Turk. So internal combustion engines, the other thing, 
a lot of people, I know where I grew up, we kept our car for 
10, 15, 20 years.
    Senator Lankford. Exactly.
    Mr. Turk. So we've got an awful lot of internal combustion 
vehicles right now on the market that will be here for many, 
many years to come.
    Senator Lankford. Okay. That is my concern, is that there 
seems to be a sense in some in DC, and I am not saying you have 
that sense, that somehow we are going to sell enough Teslas 
that folks that are driving their 1982 Ford truck are just 
going to park it. And unless there is some assumption that I 
don't know of, that so far President Biden has not said and 
hope he wouldn't say that there's going to be some kind of 
imposition to say, you have to turn off that vehicle, they are 
going to be around for a long time.
    And a lot of folks, especially folks that are in poverty, 
because electric vehicles are very expensive to be able to 
purchase that I don't want to create a mandate on people in 
poverty to suddenly say your gas prices are going to skyrocket 
so we are going to force you out of this basically raising your 
prices and your cost of living. Transportation, obviously, with 
diesel engines in carrying semi-trucks, every single product 
that we have is very dependent currently on oil and gas. So 
again, I am an all-of-the-above energy state. We are proudly 
that in Oklahoma. We, 45 percent renewable is in our mix and I 
have had multiple different folks from the Biden team that I 
have talked to that the states they are from are not close to 
what Oklahoma's fuel mix is for our diversity of fuel and they 
lecture me about being more diverse in fuel. And I say, I will 
hear that as soon as you match what we are already doing.
    But saying that, I do want folks to be able to know that we 
cannot make a rapid transition. The folks in my state are very 
concerned there will be unrealistic expectations that will be 
put down on people immediately and they will suddenly lose 
their jobs based on a mandate from someone who is trying to 
create something rather than recognizing what is. Does that 
make sense?
    Mr. Turk. Well, it makes perfect sense. And from the DOE 
perspective it is a solutions catalyst and there's an awful lot 
that the DOE can do to keep reducing those price points. 
Affordability, I think, is absolutely key whether you're 
talking about vehicles or electricity. We need to have 
reliability, security, affordability and clean energy as well. 
So there's a lot more that we can do, should be doing, to 
reduce these price points to make these technologies affordable 
for everyone.
    Senator Lankford. I know I am a couple seconds over. This 
is a very quick answer. Energy independence, is that a national 
security issue or national preference issue, whether it is 
critical minerals, whatever it may be. Is energy independence 
national security or national preference?
    Mr. Turk. National security.
    Senator Lankford. Thank you very much.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Turk. Thank you, Senator.
    The Chairman. Senator Cortez Masto.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Turk, thank you so much for taking the time to meet 
with me earlier this week, and congratulations, again, on your 
nomination. You are not going to be surprised by the first 
question that I ask. We all believe in Nevada that Yucca 
Mountain is not suitable for a national nuclear waste 
repository, and during her confirmation hearing, now-Secretary 
Granholm confirmed that the Biden Administration opposes 
storing nuclear waste and spent fuel at Yucca Mountain. The 
Secretary also committed to working with my office and the rest 
of the Nevada Congressional Delegation in finding workable, 
consent-based solutions to better address the disposal of our 
nation's nuclear waste.
    So are you in agreement with the Administration's position 
on Yucca Mountain, and will you also commit to working with the 
Nevada delegation on consent-based solutions?
    Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Senator and thanks for meeting 
me, with me ahead of this hearing. And as you said and as 
Secretary Granholm has said, President Biden has been very, 
very clear on Yucca Mountain. And I think we need to do exactly 
as you suggest, take the recommendations of the Blue Ribbon 
Commission and have consent-based options for our nuclear waste 
in this country. And we need to think of those incentives that 
will work for those communities who have their consent so that 
we can deal with this issue in a rational, reasonable and 
responsible manner.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you.
    On a separate subject, last year, the State of Nevada 
finalized an agreement that I helped to secure with DOE to 
begin removing the one half metric ton of plutonium this year 
that had been secretly shipped to the Nevada National Security 
Site from the Savannah River site in South Carolina. And 
Secretary Granholm has reported that the National Security 
Administration and DOE are on track to meet this agreement. If 
confirmed, will you commit to maintaining a strong line of 
communication with my office and Senator Rosen's office as the 
agency continues to work to adhere to this agreement with the 
State of Nevada?
    Mr. Turk. Absolutely.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    Nevadan's trust in the Department of Energy's nuclear 
program has long been strained. So my question for you is, if 
confirmed, what will you do to improve communication and help 
it build back that trust with the State of Nevada?
    Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Senator, and as we talked about, 
and as other Senators have asked about, I prided myself 
throughout my career on really listening, really working on the 
communication and as we talked about, we need solutions that 
work for particular communities, particular states as well. So 
I absolutely commit to you to make sure that the lines of 
communication, if I'm confirmed, with myself, with others at 
the Department of Energy are very much, very much there.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Mr. Turk, thank you.
    Last week, the Biden Administration released an Executive 
Order directing federal departments and agencies to identify 
ways to secure the U.S. supply chains, including critical 
minerals, which we have talked about this morning, and large 
capacity batteries, against any type of risk and vulnerability. 
Nevada is currently the only state in the U.S. with an active 
lithium mine, and we have a number of companies that are in the 
process of opening battery recycling facilities, which will be 
essential to helping keep our critical minerals in this country 
so that they can be reprocessed and fit back into that supply 
chain.
    As the Department looks to implement the order, what role 
do you anticipate battery recycling can play, and will you be 
sure to look to Nevada and my office as a resource when it 
comes to the significant supply chain opportunities that my 
state has to offer?
    Mr. Turk. Well, if confirmed, Senator, I very much would 
look forward to working with you and your staff on the huge 
opportunity that critical minerals represent, not only for 
Nevada, but throughout the country, the national security 
imperative, the jobs piece, whether that's battery recycling, 
lithium mining and I think we need to have those long-term 
signals. We need to have this as a real priority for this 
country.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    When we spoke earlier this week, we discussed the 
opportunities that come with investments in research and 
development, and the potential for DOE to dig deeper into the 
deployment of emissions-reducing technologies. I recently 
introduced a suite of electric vehicles legislation. Among the 
bills in the package are DOE programs to deploy clean school 
buses and charging infrastructure in our national parks and 
forests, as well as legislation to establish an EV commission 
co-led by the DOE, which would create a national strategy on 
electric vehicles. If you are confirmed, will you commit to 
working with my office to ensure that DOE is a strong partner 
in helping deploy EV technology?
    Mr. Turk. Absolutely. As I mentioned, EV opportunities here 
whether it's passenger vehicles or buses or others are 
tremendous. I very much would look forward to working with you 
and congratulations on your legislation.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, and again, congratulations 
on your nomination.
    Mr. Turk. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Senator Risch.
    Senator Risch. Thank you very much. Mr. Turk, thank you for 
your service and thank you for coming here today to answer our, 
hopefully not too difficult, questions.
    From a very parochial standpoint, I am from the State of 
Idaho and we have a place called the Idaho National Lab (INL). 
I look at your resume and I, like everybody, people have 
specialties and yours seems to be in the climate change lane, 
if you would. INL plays an important role in that, obviously, 
because nuclear energy is critical to where we are going in the 
future. Have you visited the INL by any chance?
    Mr. Turk. So I've not a chance to do so. I would love to do 
so. I'm very familiar with Idaho National Lab----
    Senator Risch. Well, we can help you out by arranging for 
such a thing. Go ahead.
    Mr. Turk. Good, I'd be happy to come.
    Senator Risch. You were saying?
    Mr. Turk. Good. I think there's incredible work. I have 
talked with folks who work at Idaho National Lab. It's, I 
think, just an impressive group of folks there, more generally. 
And on the nuclear issue, more generally, I think nuclear has 
played such an important part of our carbon-free baseload power 
historically. We need to work on the lifetime extensions and 
make sure that we have that capability, in my opinion. And then 
there's exciting and Idaho National Lab is at the tip of the 
spear here, exciting, small modular reactors, other kind of 
advanced reactors as well. So if I'm confirmed, I would 
absolutely love to work with you and certainly come out and 
visit Idaho National Lab.
    Senator Risch. Thanks, I appreciate that. You have given a 
very brief thumbnail sketch of the Idaho National Lab but it 
has a long history, as you know. It was the birthplace of 
nuclear power in the United States, in the world and, indeed, 
in the universe. We still have the first light bulbs that were 
lit by nuclear energy. We have built 52 reactors there. And as 
you correctly note, the SMR is a matter in development and it 
is exciting to see that they are even looking beyond that 
generation to the next generation, to the microreactor which 
will change the world, actually, as we go there. And the lab 
changed the world when it developed the first reactor. We look 
forward to that. It also has a growing mission in 
cybersecurity.
    In 2018, as you know, the DOE established the Office of 
Cybersecurity, Energy Security and Emergency Response, more 
commonly known as CESER. And that, the lab in Idaho is playing 
a major, major role in those efforts and will continue to do so 
because we have some unique capabilities there. We have been at 
the nuclear business for many decades and along with that comes 
expertise in control systems. And so, that is one of the 
reasons why cybersecurity has gravitated to that. Plus, we have 
some test beds there that are not duplicated anywhere in the 
world, really.
    Tell me about your view of the Administration's view of 
nuclear energy and where we are going on nuclear energy.
    Mr. Turk. So I think--and again, thanks for Idaho National 
Lab, as you said, not only leadership on nuclear, but on 
cybersecurity which is absolutely critical. So on nuclear 
energy, certainly if you look historically at the U.S. and the 
current snapshot of where we're at in the U.S., the amount of 
carbon-free baseload power coming from nuclear is incredibly 
impressive and a big part of the equation. Some countries 
have--I've been living in France. France's nuclear numbers are 
even higher than in the U.S. in terms of the percentage of 
electricity generation. The big issues in advanced economies in 
the U.S. and others is do you extend the lifetime of those 
plants to keep that baseload, carbon-free power for longer or 
not, a critical issue. And then, again, really focusing Idaho 
National Lab, other DOE resources, on the small modular 
reactors, the, as you said, the exciting opportunities for 
nuclear microreactors or otherwise into the future.
    Senator Risch. Well, I appreciate that. And I would, would 
you call it business as usual when it comes to going forward 
with the nuclear in the United States?
    Mr. Turk. So certainly when it comes to the small modular 
reactors and other technologies--whether it's CCUS, offshore 
wind--there can't be business as usual if we're going to be 
successful for the American people, to do what we need to do on 
the climate change front, to provide the jobs of the future, to 
really outcompete China and others. So I think on nuclear and 
these other technologies, it can't be business as usual. We 
have to have a sense of urgency. We really need to go forward, 
boldly, in my opinion.
    Senator Risch. I guess maybe that was a bad choice of 
words, business as usual. You are telling me that your view is 
that we do need to press ahead with the nuclear option of all 
of the things that are on the table for us.
    Mr. Turk. Well, absolutely, both from the innovation side 
of things, but also lifetime extensions and making sure that we 
benefit from that baseload power from the existing nuclear 
plants as well.
    Senator Risch. Certainly a legitimate effort.
    My time is up. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Kelly.
    Senator Kelly. How about that for timing?
    The Chairman. Perfect. Perfect.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Turk, thank you for your testimony. Demand management 
is going to be very helpful in expanding renewable energy use 
in the United States, and Arizona consumers and utilities are 
turning to smart thermostats and other devices to shift energy 
consumption during peak hours. I understand that the Department 
of Energy runs a smartgrid R&D program, and other offices are 
working on demand response technology. Has DOE or another 
federal agency, as far as you know, looked into expanding or 
mandating the use of demand response technology in federal 
buildings?
    Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, thank you, Senator and this is 
an incredibly important area, smart demand response. I think 
we've only, and your state is making strides here, I think 
we've only had the tip of the iceberg in terms of the potential 
for this kind of technology, especially when you match it up 
with increasing amounts of solar and wind and intermittent 
renewables as well. One of the reports I led at the 
International Energy Agency was on digitalization and energy, 
really looking at what these digital tools allow us, whether 
it's thermostats or refrigerators or other kinds of appliances 
that you can turn on, turn off and manage the loads as 
efficiently as possible. DOE does do an awful lot in this area. 
Not only at DOE Headquarters, but also in the national labs, 
NREL and PNNL and a number of national labs are focused on 
this.
    I think your question is an excellent one. We should be 
doing more with the Federal Government infrastructure on smart 
demand response. As Secretary Granholm has said very 
eloquently, the Federal Government needs to lead by example, 
build the markets, prime the pump, if you will. And so, if I'm 
confirmed, this is an area I'd be eager to work with you on.
    Senator Kelly. Yes, in Arizona last summer, we had a 
challenge there. We have three major utilities. When the 
temperature rises in California, that is where we usually go 
for increased energy capacity when we are running short. It was 
a period of a couple weeks, and the utility was able to, when 
they got in a tight spot, turn down the thermostats in 30,000 
homes across the state. These consumers signed up for this very 
effective way to get a utility out of a critical situation.
    I want to move to electric vehicles for a second. Arizona 
is a major player in the EV space. Last month Lucid Motors in 
Casa Grande, which is just outside of Phoenix, built a factory 
that is going to be capable of producing an EV car about every 
ten minutes, once they are up to full capacity. So what federal 
investment or incentives are needed to develop the charging 
infrastructure, not only in the State of Arizona, but 
nationally, as we expand the number of electric vehicles on the 
road?
    Mr. Turk. Well, it's terrific to hear of the electric 
vehicle progress, including the jobs component of it, in 
Arizona. And as Secretary Granholm has spoken so eloquently and 
given her experience with vehicles from her time as Governor of 
Michigan, it's a huge potential opportunity here and we've got 
to move aggressively. What we need to do is have an all-of-
government approach on electric vehicles. DOE has parts of the 
responsibility, the Department of Transportation has parts of 
the responsibility, and we need to have a unified strategy, 
working with you, working with other Senators who are 
interested in this issue, so that we can claim those jobs, we 
can claim those emission reductions, we can claim those 
opportunities going forward.
    So very much looking forward to working with you on that, 
if I'm confirmed.
    Senator Kelly. Well, thank you, Mr. Turk, and I yield back 
the remainder of my time.
    The Chairman. I think that we might just be down to Mr. 
Marshall.
    Senator Marshall, my friend.
    Senator Marshall. Well, Mr. Chairman, thank you and I am 
glad you saved the best for last. I would just remind the 
Chairman, I am very grateful for Senator Risch's comments about 
the nuclear option being used somewhere other than on the 
Senate Floor. So it was exciting to hear him mention some other 
type of nuclear options.
    All right, Mr. Turk, congratulations and welcome.
    As I start my remarks I want to just start by saying that 
you and I share so many goals. My goal is that we would leave 
this, that I would leave this world cleaner, healthier, safer 
than it is today. And I am so proud that I can say that from 
growing up in, until to now at least, in Kansas. I think that 
is an accurate statement.
    Let's keep going in the same direction. At the same time, I 
have a responsibility as a Senator, a grandfather, a father, to 
what the cost of energy is and as well as the importance of 
energy independence. Your goal, my goal, is how do we balance 
those, as I hear you, you know, that discussion. I am going to 
start just with asking for some simple advice. If you look at 
the State of Kansas, my home, hit with 11 days of temperatures 
below zero and like many states, suffered during that time. The 
State of Kansas and I am very proud of this, 40 percent of 
electricity is generated from wind. So 40 percent wind, about a 
third of electricity generated from coal, about 18 percent from 
nuclear and then whatever else is left. On the other hand, we 
heat our homes with a lot of natural gas.
    Without the coal plants in Kansas, whatever economic impact 
we would have had, it would have been double or triple. Coal 
was really, well it was able to keep functioning and nuclear 
was able to keep functioning in Kansas, for the most part. I 
understand some other places did not. So if you were giving 
advice to Kansans and what that mix should look like and what 
we can do to prevent this in the future, what would be your 
advice and how would you frame that conversation?
    Mr. Turk. So the biggest piece of advice is to have 
resiliency in all of our energy systems. And I think what we 
saw in Texas and other states affected by the recent cold spell 
was we weren't resilient on natural gas. We weren't resilient 
on coal as much as we could've been. We weren't resilient on 
nuclear. We weren't resilient on some of the wind turbines as 
well. So we need to have resiliency across all of these sources 
and making sure that the electricity grid and the natural gas 
pipelines all work, all work in a variety of different 
conditions. So I think the resiliency is the piece where I 
would focus on and it's, maybe it's not the most interesting 
topic or the sexiest of topics or what not, but it's the kind 
of work that needs to be done, day in and day out. And 
certainly, from the Department of Energy perspective, if I'm 
confirmed, I think there's an awful lot the Department can do 
working with state and local utilities to try to make all our 
systems as resilient as they can be.
    Senator Marshall. And with the resiliency certainly comes a 
cost and I think that somehow, we need to factor that into the 
equation as well.
    Let's talk about biofuels, another issue real important to 
Kansas. What do you feel the future of biofuels are for 
America?
    Mr. Turk. Well, as I've said, and I'm a firm believer in 
this, to achieve the goals that we need to achieve, whether 
you're talking about climate change or you're talking about 
jobs, winning the jobs of the future, we need to have a variety 
of clean energy technologies, a variety of solutions. From the 
Department of Energy side, as Chairman Manchin and others have 
pointed to, the innovation agenda, to drive innovation in all 
of these areas and technologies. So biofuels is certainly a 
very important technology, a very important area and we need to 
keep innovating in all of these. We can't take tools off the 
tool belt.
    Senator Marshall. Great.
    I appreciate your concise answers. You are probably--it is 
the most concise answers of anybody I have ever heard up here.
    I want to talk about innovation and agriculture and carbon 
capture. That, you know, right now agriculture is really the 
only industry out there really seriously involved with carbon 
capture and there are future opportunities as well. What does 
that future look like to you, specifically for agriculture?
    Mr. Turk. So agriculture has played an incredibly important 
role of carbon sinks and really taking a lot of the carbon in 
the U.S. and in other countries as well. But I think there's a 
lot more potential there. So certainly, if I'm confirmed, 
working with the Department of Agriculture, others here, to 
really drive that innovation so that we can have cost-
effective--you're right to focus on affordability. We need to 
make this cost-effective so that this is an important part of 
the future for farmers, ranchers around the country.
    Senator Marshall. Well, great.
    I just want to brag on agriculture and ranchers. We were 
the original conservationists doing so many things for this 
carbon sink, like you describe, and soil health. We have been 
doing no-till farming on our farm for over 20 years, cover 
crops and there are certainly more and more opportunities out 
there. We look forward to working with you in agriculture and 
energy as well.
    Mr. Turk. Well, and I spent my summers going through 
cornfields and doing something called detasseling where you go 
through and pick the tassels off of corn plants. So whatever I 
can do to help you, if I'm confirmed, Senator, eager to work 
with you.
    Senator Marshall. Well, we will try to get you out there 
and do some detasseling in Kansas as well.
    [Laughter.]
    Thank you so much, and I yield back.
    Mr. Turk. I didn't enjoy doing it, just for the record.
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. Senator Hickenlooper, is he still on the 
line?
    Senator Hickenlooper. Yes, I am here.
    The Chairman. Okay, it is your turn, sir.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and 
Mr. Turk, I have enjoyed listening to your answers.
    Colorado has 60,000 workers who work in clean energy, and 
is in the top ten states for jobs in wind and solar. It is a 
robust and diverse economy that includes construction and 
manufacturing--in many ways, the fast-growing parts of our 
economy--and energy efficiency. As you know, DOE's invention 
and innovation grant program for individuals and for small 
businesses has been unfunded, or minimally funded, for a number 
of years. In your opinion, how would more robust funding from 
DOE to partner with small businesses, universities, and 
national laboratories help bring more clean energy and energy 
efficiency to the marketplace?
    Mr. Turk. Well, thank you. Thank you, Senator. I think 
there's an awful lot that DOE can do and do better with small 
businesses in particular, and you certainly know and understand 
small businesses given your background. As you know, you have 
NREL which is one of our terrific national labs there in 
Colorado. They have some programs already. I think there's one 
called something like the Wells Fargo Accelerator to try to 
work with local businesses and to make sure that the labs, not 
only are providing cutting-edge innovation for the whole 
country but are working with local partners, local small 
businesses to make sure that these are innovation hubs. So I 
personally think there's an awful lot more we can do whether 
it's with NREL or our other national labs across the country.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. Obviously, as you mentioned, 
DOE has a large presence in Colorado at NREL, out in Golden, 
Colorado. I have been there probably at least a dozen times. It 
is one of the, I think, most intriguing places because they are 
innovating pretty much every day, and they are playing a 
leading role in the transition to a sustainable low-emissions 
energy system, both for our nation and ultimately, for the 
world. They have a remarkable team of researchers and 
scientists that are transforming how the nation and the world 
use energy making sure that as we develop new energy systems we 
are not missing any unintended consequences.
    I think the development of these critical infrastructures 
and technologies depends on making sure that they have world 
class facilities for their research. I think too often we lose 
sight of the payback we get from investing in labs, lab 
equipment, and facilities to make sure that there is adequate 
space for R&D. And I think this helps to attract talent. It 
helps us retain talent and then it maximizes the benefit we get 
when that talent, either individually or through the synergy of 
working together, creates real innovation. I think that enables 
us to continue to create the innovation that we have seen be so 
successful in the reduction of costs of all sorts of renewable 
energy.
    Can we get your commitment to make sure we work to ensure 
that our national labs get the funding for not just the 
personnel they have, but to make sure that they have the 
facilities necessary?
    Mr. Turk. Well, I'm a firm believer of the national labs, 
the 17 national labs. They're the crown jewels of innovation, 
not only for the Department, but for the country as a whole. 
And as you say, that means making the investments that are 
necessary in the facilities, the world class facilities that we 
have at NREL and other labs around the country. I've worked 
with a lot of colleagues from NREL over the years, the talent 
at NREL is incredibly impressive, as it is in our other 
national labs as well.
    So I would look forward to working with you, Senator, if 
I'm confirmed, with others, and I will say, Congress has been 
such an incredibly strong supporter, year in and year out of 
making those kinds of investments that we need so that we have 
those crown jewels, not only for today, but for all our 
challenges we'll need them in, in the future.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. Well, thank you so much, and I 
cannot over-emphasize how much I look forward to working with 
you going forward. I yield the rest of my time.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Are there any other Senators, if you are on Zoom, that have 
not done a first round? Is there anybody on Zoom that we might 
have missed? If not, we are going to go with Senator Barrasso 
for a second round.
    Senator Barrasso. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
    Just a couple questions considering you have been talking a 
lot about nuclear power and nuclear issues. I want to talk 
about uranium. For years, Russia and its satellites have 
unfairly dumped uranium into the U.S. market. As a result, 
America, right now, imports about 90 percent of our uranium 
from other countries and about 40 percent of its uranium from 
Russia, Kazakhstan, and Uzbekistan. America's uranium 
production is at a low right now, a low that we have not seen 
since the early `50's. And we talked about this yesterday.
    Do you believe it is critical that America maintains its 
ability to produce and process our own uranium for our own 
nuclear power sector in terms of national security?
    Mr. Turk. Yes, I do.
    Senator Barrasso. So last year the Department requested 
that Congress provide funding to establish a national uranium 
reserve and put money into that. Can I have your commitment 
that, if confirmed, you will complete the establishment of the 
reserve, create the purchasing program and buy American-
produced uranium this year?
    Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Senator, for your leadership on 
this issue for many years and I'm very familiar with the $75 
million that's been appropriated on this. If I'm confirmed, I 
certainly look forward, not only in this instance, but in other 
instances, making sure the Department is complying with the 
will of the Congress, with Article I and certainly look forward 
to further talking with you and your staff on this very 
important issue.
    Senator Barrasso. In addition to our foreign adversaries, 
like Russia, the Department of Energy has also actually dumped 
uranium into the U.S. market and that has been against the law, 
but it has happened in both previous administrations. It has 
undercut the price of uranium, resulted in the cancellation of 
uranium projects and the loss of jobs in my home State of 
Wyoming. The GAO has repeatedly found that the Department's 
actions have violated federal law. Finally Secretary Perry has 
largely ended the practice.
    Can I have your commitment that, if confirmed, you will 
ensure that the Department's excess uranium is not put into the 
market and we stay compliant with the law?
    Mr. Turk. So this is an issue that I've not studied fully. 
I don't know the particular context and contours, have not had 
a chance, not being confirmed, to talk with our DOE officials. 
I would certainly want to do that and talk to them and talk to 
you further on that issue.
    Senator Barrasso. I want to talk about the renewable fuel 
standard. Unlike large oil refineries, small refineries do not 
have the economies of scale to comply with our nation's biofuel 
mandate, the Renewable Fuel Standard, the RFS. This is why 
Congress allowed small refineries to petition the Environmental 
Protection Agency for what is known as the Hardship Relief. So 
before deciding whether to grant relief, the Administrator of 
the EPA is required by law to consult with the Secretary of 
Energy. Under the last two administrations, federal courts have 
rebuked the EPA and the Department of Energy for failing to 
account for all of the challenges that small refineries face 
under the RFS.
    If confirmed, will you ensure that the Department fully 
accounts for the challenges that small refineries face when 
evaluating these petitions?
    Mr. Turk. Thank you, Senator. I certainly appreciate 
whether it's small refineries or small businesses that we need 
to look at and make sure that the rules are working for 
everyone in that instance. As you note, as you noted, it's an 
EPA decision, but DOE does have an opportunity to discuss and 
weigh in and certainly, if I'm confirmed, would be eager to do 
so. And again, look forward to talking with you further on this 
important issue.
    Senator Barrasso. Last July, I sent Secretary Brouillette a 
letter encouraging the Department of Energy, not to just have 
people come and visit Wyoming, but to actually establish a 
presence in my home State of Wyoming. If confirmed, would you 
give serious consideration to this request to create a 
Department of Energy office in Wyoming?
    Mr. Turk. So, absolutely, Senator. I don't need to tell you 
how much of an energy powerhouse Wyoming is. I think it's 15 
times the amount of energy that you consume that you produce 
and benefit the rest of the country. So I would be more than 
eager to talk to you further about that, if I'm confirmed.
    Senator Barrasso. Finally, Mr. Chairman, a number of people 
have asked you during the hearing about rare earth minerals and 
China's dominance there. There is actually a lead editorial in 
today's Wall Street Journal and it is, ``Rare Truths About 
China's Rare Earths.'' I would just recommend that to you and a 
number of our members have seen it and follow it.
    [The information referred to follows:]
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]     
    
    Senator Barrasso. Congratulations on your nomination.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    And Mr. Turk, I just want to thank you, on behalf of the 
Committee, for being willing to serve in this most important 
position. The expertise you bring has been very well on display 
today, and we appreciate your directness, the knowledge you 
have, and you sharing it with the rest of our country. I would 
hope that there is going to be bipartisan support. I think 
there will be. I think that we have a good group of people here 
that realize your talents.
    With that, we do have concerns. I know that Senator 
Barrasso just mentioned one, on rare earth minerals. We feel 
like we are being held hostage. There is so much more we can do 
with the waste streams that we have. We are hoping that you 
will look at that and work with us. We are hoping to make sure 
that the technology dollars that we put in our energy bill at 
the end of the year are put into your budget to immediately 
start doing good and finding those new technologies through 
innovation. The NETL lab is very important, as you understand, 
to our entire chain, but it is the one that we have total 
control over, and is being shortchanged right now.
    So there is an awful lot of things we want to work with you 
on. And we think that you, with Secretary Granholm, are going 
to make a great team. We are here for you in a very bipartisan 
way, and we want to work with you.
    Thank you, sir, again. Thank you.
    Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. The Committee will stand adjourned.
    Oh, I am sorry. Members will have until 6 p.m. this evening 
to submit additional questions for the record. So members will 
have until 6 p.m. this evening.
    Thank you again, Mr. Turk.
    Mr. Turk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Meeting adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:31 p.m. the committee adjourned.]

                      APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

                              ----------  
                              
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]