[Senate Hearing 117-116]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-116
TURK NOMINATION
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
to
CONSIDER THE NOMINATION OF DAVID M. TURK TO BE THE
DEPUTY SECRETARY OF ENERGY
__________
MARCH 4, 2021
__________
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
43-822 WASHINGTON : 2022
COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
Renae Black, Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
Darla Ripchensky, Chief Clerk
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West
Virginia....................................................... 1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
Wyoming........................................................ 2
WITNESSES
Van Hollen, Hon. Chris, a U.S. Senator from Maryland............. 3
Conrad, Hon. Kent, a Former U.S. Senator from North Dakota....... 5
Turk, David M., nominated to be the Deputy Secretary of Energy... 6
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Barrasso, Hon. John:
Opening Statement............................................ 2
Editorial entitled ``OPINION: Rare Truths About China's Rare
Earths'' by the Wall Street Journal Editorial Board dated
3/3/2021................................................... 44
Conrad, Hon. Kent:
Introduction................................................. 5
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
Martin, William F.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 84
Turk, David M.:
Opening Statement............................................ 6
Written Testimony............................................ 9
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 49
Van Hollen, Hon. Chris:
Introduction................................................. 3
TURK NOMINATION
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THURSDAY, MARCH 4, 2021
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:26 a.m. in
Room SD-G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin
III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA
The Chairman. We meet today to consider the nomination of
David M. Turk to be the Deputy Secretary of Energy. I want to
welcome Mr. Turk to the Committee, and I want to thank you for
being here this morning, sir, and for your willingness to serve
in this important position.
Energy is essential to all of us. We depend on it every
minute of every day to heat our homes and offices, to power our
factories, to light the darkness, to cook our food, to fuel our
cars, and to power our cell phones and computers. It is an
indispensable fabric of our civilization. It is the Department
of Energy's (DOE) job to see that the people of this country
have an adequate and reliable supply of energy at the lowest
reasonable cost. The Department has many other
responsibilities, including maintaining our nuclear deterrents,
cleaning up Hanford and the Cold War nuclear weapons sites, and
maintaining our scientific and technological prowess through
the national laboratories. But its primary mission, its reason
for being, is to promote the general welfare by assuring
coordinated and effective administration of federal energy
policy and programs. Next to the Secretary, the Deputy
Secretary bears the principal responsibility for this task.
The Deputy Secretary is the second-highest ranking officer
in the Department and the Department's Chief Operating Officer.
The Deputy must be prepared to act for the Secretary and
perform all the Secretary's functions and duties in the
Secretary's absence, and to manage the Department's wide-
ranging mission and the budget of over $35 billion.
Mr. Turk, I am convinced that you are up to the job. You
know the energy issues. You have spent the last four years in
senior positions at the International Energy Agency (IEA) and
the past 14 months as the Agency's Deputy Executive Director.
The Executive Director of the IEA is Dr. Fatih Birol, who is
well known to this Committee and highly regarded by members on
both sides of the aisle. Mr. Turk has been Mr. Birol's Deputy.
He knows the Department of Energy. Before joining the IEA, he
spent two years as the Deputy Assistant Secretary for
International Climate and Technology at the Department of
Energy. Before that, he was a Deputy Assistant Secretary at the
Department of State and a Special Assistant to the President at
the National Security Council--and he knows Congress. He got
his start working for Senator Conrad, who we will hear from in
a moment, then served as Counsel to then-Senator Biden on the
Senate Judiciary Committee, and later as Staff Director for the
House Oversight Subcommittee on National Security and Foreign
Affairs.
He has spent the past 20 years serving in important jobs
that have given him the technical knowledge and the practical
experience in energy, national security, and management that he
will need to help Secretary Granholm lead the Department of
Energy. I think he is supremely well qualified and I hereby
support his nomination.
I will now recognize Senator Barrasso to make his opening
statement.
Senator Barrasso.
STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman,
and I also want to welcome David Turk to join us today at the
Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. Congratulations
on the nomination. Thank you for spending time with me
yesterday and I thought it was a very productive discussion. I
appreciated that.
Our nation's energy production benefits every American, as
we discussed yesterday. American energy keeps the lights on for
our schools, our businesses and our homes. It powers our cars,
our buses, our trucks, our ships, our airplanes and our trains.
Whether it is coal, oil, natural gas, uranium, water, sun, or
wind, the energy resources we use to generate power provide the
backbone for our economy. Over the decades our nation has made
great progress in improving the environmental and economic
performance of all of these energy resources and we must never
rest on our laurels. We must always continue to harness
American ingenuity, investment and innovation to make our use
of these energy resources even cleaner and more cost-effective
and efficient for the American people.
Last Congress I, along with my Democrat and Republican
colleagues, worked together to enact a law that promotes carbon
capture technologies, provides for more efficient diesel
engines and prevents greenhouse gas emissions from air
conditioners. This was the most significant climate change law
to pass Congress in years and it is going to pay significant
dividends for the environment. I look forward to working with
Chairman Manchin, the members of this Committee, and the
Department of Energy to build on this record of bipartisanship.
If confirmed as Deputy Secretary of Energy, Mr. Turk is
going to play a critical role in our nation's energy agenda.
His experience in energy policy is extensive and it includes
leadership positions at the International Energy Agency in
Paris, the U.S. Department of Energy, the U.S. Department of
State, and the National Security Council. During his career,
Mr. Turk has worked to support the development of innovative
energy technologies. He has specifically spoken publicly about
the need for carbon capture technologies. I hope to hear more
from Mr. Turk today about his support for developing innovative
energy technologies, including carbon capture technologies. We
also want to hear from him on how the Biden Administration can
promote American energy exports instead of just stifling
domestic production.
Much of our nation's energy comes from Wyoming which is
America's leading energy producer. It has among the largest
reserves of energy resources in the country, produces 15 times
more energy than it consumes, and it is the biggest net energy
supplier among all 50 states. Energy production is the economic
lifeblood of Wyoming. It creates good paying jobs, provides a
critical source of revenue to state and to local governments. I
look forward to hearing how Mr. Turk will prioritize policies
that take advantage of the enormous energy, economic and
national security benefits generated by our abundant fossil
fuel resources.
All too often, international climate efforts, such as the
Paris Climate Agreement are designed to give other countries an
advantage over ours. This agreement gave countries like China,
Russia, and Iran a competitive advantage over America with
little to no environmental benefit. If confirmed at the
Department as Deputy Secretary of Energy, Mr. Turk must
prioritize policies that are directly associated and focused on
helping Americans. This is going to include energy production
from coal, oil, natural gas, and uranium.
The Biden Administration has already declared war on
American energy and American energy workers. Its policies make
the United States and our allies more vulnerable to China, also
to Russia, also to OPEC nations. So I am not going to sit idly
by while an Administration enforces policies that threaten my
home state's economy and the livelihoods of so many people in
my state and across the country. The bottom line is the United
States will need fossil fuels well into the future. Coal, oil,
and natural gas are not going away and America should not leave
these assets stranded in the ground. If confirmed as Deputy
Secretary of Energy, Mr. Turk must ensure that he and his
colleagues at the Department recognize this reality.
Again, thank you Mr. Chairman for calling the hearing. I do
look forward to Mr. Turk's testimony and having an opportunity
to further explore and discuss the issues with the nominee.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
At this point, I will recognize Senator Van Hollen to
introduce Mr. Turk to the Committee.
Senator Van Hollen.
STATEMENT OF HON. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN,
U.S. SENATOR FROM MARYLAND
Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Chairman Manchin and Ranking
Member Barrasso, members of the Committee. I appreciate the
opportunity to introduce to you the President's nominee to be
Deputy Secretary of Energy, Mr. David Turk. While Mr. Turk was
born in South America and raised in Illinois, I think I can
speak for all my fellow Marylanders when we say we are proud to
claim him, his wife, Emily, and their three children as
Marylanders. As you have heard from the Chairman's introductory
biography, Mr. Turk has a wide range of experience directly
relevant and important to this position, and I highly recommend
him to you as the next Deputy Secretary.
I have also had the privilege of getting to know Dave
personally over the years. I first met Dave more than a dozen
years ago when he served as the Staff Director of the National
Security Oversight Subcommittee in the House of
Representatives. He worked diligently with both sides of the
aisle. I had a chance to travel with him on official CODELs and
participate in hearings organized by the subcommittee. And
throughout that period, he showed a seriousness of purpose and
a focus on key national security issues, and recognized the
importance of working with our allies to pursue our national
security interests. I always found him to be well organized,
diligent, and responsive to members on the Committee from both
sides of the aisle. His national security experience is going
to be very important in this job. As you indicated, Mr.
Chairman, a big part of the Department of Energy portfolio is
overseeing our nuclear weapons arsenal, advancing our nuclear
non-proliferation goals, and promoting international nuclear
safety. And Mr. Turk's experience in the House and elsewhere
will serve him very well for this mission.
Beyond his experience in the House, Mr. Turk had a number
of other positions that are directly relevant to this position.
We are going to be hearing from Senator Conrad, and I want to
thank the Senator for his great service and for being here
today to speak on behalf of David Turk. Mr. Turk also served on
the Judiciary Committee for then-Senator Joe Biden. Beyond
Capitol Hill, he had posts in the White House on the White
House National Security Council, at the State Department, and
as you indicated, Mr. Chairman, at the Department of Energy,
where he served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary for
International Climate and Technology. Most recently, he has
channeled his skills toward helping governments, industry, and
communities across the world make informed, 21st century energy
choices in his capacity at the International Energy Agency. He
has worn many hats during his five-year tenure there, most
recently as Deputy Executive Director, and that position has
given him, literally, a global vantage point with respect to
the challenges of energy and, of course, of climate change.
As a co-sponsor of Senator Barrasso's legislation that he
mentioned with respect to carbon sequestration and other
measures to reduce emissions from greenhouse gases, I can
assure members that Mr. Turk will work closely with us on that
agenda. In fact, while his resume indicates that he has spent
his career in various capacities here in our nation's capital
and, of course, in his most recent post overseas, Dave grew up
in a town in Illinois, Rock Falls. I know from my many
interactions with him that he has never forgotten those small
town roots, and in this job at the Department of Energy, he is
always going to be focused on working Americans, no matter
where they live in the United States of America--East Coast,
West Coast, and all points in between, plus Alaska and Hawaii.
Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Barrasso, members of the
Committee, I strongly urge you to support the nomination of
David Turk.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Van Hollen.
Now I want to recognize our former colleague, Senator
Conrad, to introduce Mr. Turk. Senator Conrad represented North
Dakota in the Senate from 1987 to 2013, and served as either
Chairman or Ranking Member of the Budget Committee for 12
years. Perhaps more to the point this morning, he was a member
of this Committee from 1987 to 1993, and he played a major role
in enacting the landmark Energy Policy Act of 1992.
Senator Conrad, we are, sir, truly honored and pleased to
welcome you back to the Committee this morning, and I want to
assure you that your years of hard work trying to balance the
budget and your example of bipartisanship have not been
forgotten.
Senator Conrad.
STATEMENT OF HON. KENT CONRAD, FORMER U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH
DAKOTA
Senator Conrad. Thank you, Chairman Manchin. Very kind
words; I appreciate it. As I look back on my time with you and
Ranking Member Barrasso, it is good to see you.
Senator Barrasso. We always liked Lucy better than you.
[Laughter.]
Senator Conrad. That has always been my experience in life.
So good to see you all. I did love serving on the Energy
Committee. You know, they made me leave when I went to the
Finance Committee, or I would have stayed for my entire time
because I truly loved serving on the Energy Committee. And I
want to thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, for this
opportunity to introduce David Turk who, as you know, has been
nominated to be Deputy Secretary of Energy. Dave worked with me
for three years, actually more than three years, as Legislative
Assistant and as my Counsel. I can tell you he did a superb
job. I very much enjoyed working with Dave, as did all of our
staff and everybody that worked with him. He's the kind of
person you want in a position of responsibility.
Senator Van Hollen mentioned that Dave grew up in a small
town in Illinois, and he has those small town, Midwestern
values. Dave Turk is honest. He is hard working. He is somebody
that works well with others and appreciates the fundamental
need to get things done. That is really what drives Dave Turk
and motivates him to get things accomplished to improve the
lives of the people that he works for. And he knows, in this
position, he is working for the people of the United States.
Because of his long service in Congress, he also appreciates
that Congress is the Article I branch of our government. He
understands the critical role it plays in our constitutional
structure, and he learned full well the importance of working
together, of working with others. I can tell you if he is
confirmed, he will be laser-focused on improving the lives of
the people of this country. That will be his focus. He will
also be results-oriented. One of the things I can say about
Dave in having worked with me is, if you wanted a job to get
done, you gave it to Dave Turk, because the job is going to get
done and it is going to get done well.
Finally, let me just say, Dave is also a very good
basketball player, and I found that makes a big difference in
life, especially if you can rebound. So let me just say to my
colleagues, my former colleagues, I urge you to vote for the
confirmation of Dave Turk. I urge you to do it quickly. You
will never be disappointed. You will enjoy working with this
man and you will appreciate the attitude he brings to his work.
Thank you so much. It is good to see you all again.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Conrad. It is good to see
you and hear from you also, as always.
The rules of the Committee, which apply to all nominees,
require that they be sworn-in in connection with their
testimony. Mr. Turk, if you would please stand and raise your
right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to
give to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
Mr. Turk. I do.
The Chairman. You may be seated, sir.
Before you begin your statement, I will ask three questions
addressed to each nominee before this Committee. Will you be
available to appear before this Committee and other
Congressional committees to represent departmental positions
and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
Mr. Turk. I will.
The Chairman. Are you aware of any personal holdings,
investments, or interests that could constitute a conflict of
interest or create the appearance of such of a conflict should
you be confirmed and assume the office to which you have been
nominated by the President?
Mr. Turk. No.
The Chairman. Are you involved or do you have any assets
held in a blind trust?
Mr. Turk. No.
The Chairman. You are now recognized to make your
statement, so you can proceed. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF DAVID M. TURK NOMINATED TO BE THE DEPUTY SECRETARY
OF ENERGY
Mr. Turk. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso,
distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the
opportunity to appear before you today. Let me also thank
Senators Van Hollen and Conrad, not only for their incredibly
kind introductory remarks, but more importantly, for their
remarkable years of public service. It is a distinct honor to
be before a Committee with such a proven record of bipartisan
accomplishments. Let me congratulate all those involved in the
groundbreaking Energy Act of 2020, in particular, especially
then-Chairman Murkowski, then-Ranking Member Manchin and all
the Senators who were involved in that extraordinary effort.
Last year also saw passage of Senator Barrasso's HFC bill that
he mentioned, one of the most important pieces of climate
legislation in recent years.
To introduce myself, I thought I'd focus on five key
formative experiences in my life that should I be honored
enough to be confirmed, I would take with me as Deputy
Secretary of Energy.
First, as has already been mentioned, I grew up in a small
Rust Belt town that I suspect most of you have never heard of,
Rock Falls, Illinois. Throughout my childhood the mill, which
is what we referred to simply as the largest employer, laid off
more and more workers each year of my childhood. Through no
fault of their own, steady paychecks were no longer steady,
families were thrown into disarray and the entire community was
left to fend for itself.
Second, in high school I was selected to represent my home
State of Illinois at a DOE summer program at Brookhaven
National Lab. From this very first experience I could tell that
DOE was a very special organization and this first impression
was only reinforced when I became a full-time Department
employee.
Third, my first job, as was been mentioned, was working in
DC for Senator Kent Conrad who instilled in all of us on his
team a laser-like focus to help his fellow North Dakotans.
Through that experience, I learned how passionate public
service can make a real difference in real people's lives.
Fourth, I had the privilege to serve as a Special Assistant
to the President on the National Security Council. My role was
to coordinate national security issues between the Congress and
all of the agencies of the Executive Branch. I learned that
America is always stronger when Article I and Article II can
work together.
And fifth and most recently, I served as Deputy Executive
Director of the International Energy Agency under a visionary
leader in Dr. Fatih Birol. If confirmed, I very much look
forward to being Deputy to another visionary leader in
Secretary Granholm. I learned that a successful deputy needs to
put ego aside to support the leader, to lift up all others and
to follow through. If confirmed, I would bring all of these
experiences to the job of Deputy Secretary of Energy.
The expansive portfolio of DOE and its 110,000 employees
can, at first, look a bit like a Frankenstein's monster. But
upon closer inspection, I would argue there's a clear thread
throughout. DOE, put simply, is where our country turns for
solutions to our country's toughest problems.
Let me elaborate on what I mean of this critical role of
DOE as America's catalyst for solutions. The Department must
maintain a safe, secure, reliable nuclear stockpile, prevent
nuclear weapons proliferation, clean up waste from our nuclear
weapons programs of the past. The Department has been and must
remain the scientific powerhouse, not only of the country, but
of the world. The Department must be an indispensable solutions
catalyst to defeat climate change, one of the most daunting
challenges ever facing humanity. DOE must help catalyze a full
range of clean energy, affordable, resilient technologies for
us to be able to reach net zero emissions in just a few short
decades. And the Department needs to be laser-focused like
never before to help communities in transition. We must ensure
we do not leave towns like Rock Falls, Illinois, alone without
real world opportunities and a fair chance to succeed. I firmly
believe that the greatest country in the history of the world
can solve climate change, build back better, out-compete others
and leave no workers and no communities behind and we must do
all of these urgently and at the same time.
If confirmed, I look forward to partnering with each of you
as you serve your constituents and your communities. For the
Department to be successful, it needs the type of bipartisan
leadership, partnership, that you all have shown in the Energy
Act of 2020.
Thank you again for giving me the opportunity to appear
before you today. I very much look forward to your questions
and to do everything I can to help.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Turk follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, sir.
I will start the questioning. My first question will be,
the United States became a net total energy exporter in 2019,
which means we were energy independent for the first time in 67
years, in large part due to the surge of domestic oil and gas
production. Do you believe it is in our best interest to
maintain our energy independence?
Mr. Turk. Yes.
The Chairman. I believe that we must meet the climate
challenge with innovation, not elimination. I say that in
recognition that we must reduce emissions in all sectors of the
economy domestically, but also around the world. I have said
this many times, this is global climate. It is not North
American climate or United States climate. I also believe it is
of paramount importance that we maintain our energy
independence. We can continue to develop innovative solutions
that will reduce our carbon emissions and get us to net-zero by
2050 while taking advantage of all the energy resources that we
have at our disposal.
Do you agree with the all-of-the-above energy strategy for
our country, and also that we can do it with investments in
technology?
Mr. Turk. Well, as we had a chance to talk, Mr. Chairman,
and thank you for talking with me before the hearing and so
many other Senators on this Committee, having worked at the
International Energy Agency and elsewhere, I'm a firm believer,
as you said very eloquently in your opening statements, that
energy is good. Energy is what powers our community and
provides livelihoods for Americans across the country. It's
emissions that are the challenge. So, we need to promote
energy. We need to promote energy just as you said and we also
need to focus on emissions and this is where technologies like
CCUS, Ranking Member Barrasso mentioned, others mentioned as
well. We need to have that full assortment of tools in the tool
belt on energy.
The Chairman. Well also, when you put your energy budget
together, working with Secretary Granholm, will you commit to
including the $35 billion that we authorized in the Energy Act
last year for technology so we can find and innovate the new
technologies that we will be able to use for an all-of-the-
above strategy, including all of our fossil, in the cleanest
way to meet these emissions reductions?
Mr. Turk. Well, absolutely. And again, congratulations to
you, Senator Murkowski, all involved in the Energy Act of 2020
which provides a terrific road map for what the Department
should be focusing on and a wide range of technologies and
sectors when it comes to energy. And I'm a firm, firm believer,
as you are, Mr. Chairman, on innovation. I've spent much of my
career focused on innovation, the power of innovation, to
really have solutions for these challenges that face our
country.
The Chairman. Your background working at the U.S. State
Department and Department of Energy, as well as the IEA, has
given you an important perspective on the United States' role
in energy and technology markets worldwide. In recent months,
China has announced increasing ambition on addressing its
greenhouse gas emissions, and data showed that its energy
investments across technologies are significant. President
Biden has already signaled his interest in reclaiming U.S.
leadership on the global climate stage, but existing
competition in markets and our reliance on foreign supply
chains--I repeat that, on foreign supply chains--may be our
biggest obstacle to meeting our desires.
How do you see the Department of Energy playing a role in
boosting U.S. competitiveness and leadership on providing
climate solutions to a global energy market?
Mr. Turk. Well, I completely agree with you, Mr. Chairman.
The U.S. is a leader in the world, needs to be a leader, needs
to be the leader the world, including when it comes to the
technologies of the future. And we do need to approach other
countries, whether it's China or others with our eyes wide
open, with a very pragmatic streak and look forward, look for
promoting the U.S. interest of companies, communities. One
issue in particular, and I hope we talk about it further today,
is critical minerals. Critical minerals are important now, will
be even more important into the future as well. And we need to
get our act together as a U.S. Government, working Article I,
Article II, to make sure we have a full supply chain of
critical minerals, the jobs associated with it, the national
security benefits that flow from it as well.
The Chairman. That is great.
I have one final question. I think we can all agree that
the national labs are the Department's crown jewels, and I am
so proud to have the National Energy Technology Laboratory
(NETL) in Morgantown, West Virginia. This is merely personal to
me, but NETL is unique among the labs in that it is the only
government-owned, government-operated lab. As a result, it
lacks some of the flexibility that some of the other labs
enjoy, such as control over its own hiring. And right now, I
understand there are more than 30 vacancies awaiting
Secretarial approval to fill at NETL.
Will you turn your attention to getting these hires
approved at NETL? Will you work with me to ensure NETL has the
authority over its human resources needed to put it on a level
footing, a level playing field, with the other 16 labs?
Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. NETL is one of the
crown jewels of our crown jewels in our national lab system.
It's incredibly important. And as, if I'm confirmed as the
Deputy Secretary of Energy, my job as the COO of the agencies
to make sure the trains run on time or supporting the
incredibly passionate, gifted folks at NETL and our other
national labs. So I would absolutely love to work with you,
work with your staff, to make sure NETL has all the full
authorities and tools that it needs.
The Chairman. Well, if we can look at the hiring situation
they have and the positions that have been unfilled for far too
long, I would appreciate that.
Senator Barrasso.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I have just a couple of short questions. It is a series of
them. I asked them previously to Secretary Granholm and just,
the U.S. is the world's largest oil and gas, natural gas,
producer. On balance, good thing or bad thing?
Mr. Turk. Good thing.
Senator Barrasso. The U.S. has, if not the lowest, then
among the lowest energy prices in the industrialized world. On
balance, good thing or bad thing?
Mr. Turk. Good thing.
Senator Barrasso. Jobs in the oil, natural gas, and coal
sector, pay well above the national average. On balance, good
thing or bad thing?
Mr. Turk. Jobs are good, absolutely.
Senator Barrasso. Oil, gas, and coal production generates
on an annual basis billions of dollars for states, for tribes
and for the Federal Government. On balance, good thing or bad
thing?
Mr. Turk. Good thing for those states to have that funding.
Senator Barrasso. Largely because of hydraulic fracturing,
U.S. emissions are at the lowest level since the early 1990s.
On balance, good thing or bad thing?
Mr. Turk. As I mentioned, energy is good. Emissions are
bad. Whatever we can do to drive down emissions is a positive
thing.
Senator Barrasso. U.S. exports of oil and natural gas have
enabled our allies to reduce their reliance on imports from our
adversaries. On balance, good thing or bad thing?
Mr. Turk. Good thing.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
At her nominating hearing I asked Secretary Granholm how a
ban on oil and gas leasing is consistent with President Biden's
goal of unifying our country, putting Americans back to work,
helping the economy grow. She said that the President's plan on
building back better would create more jobs in clean energy
than the jobs that might be sacrificed. I focus on the word
``sacrificed.'' Do you believe that the jobs of American oil
and gas workers need to be sacrificed?
Mr. Turk. So we need to focus on jobs, as I said in my
opening statement, with a laser focus. And we are in the middle
of an energy transition going on, not only in Wyoming, but
states not only in our country, but in our world. And this is
not going to be easy, it's going to require focus day in and
day out with a sense of urgency to not only have the jobs our
communities need today, but to have the jobs for decades to
come as well.
Senator Barrasso. Do you believe that each of these workers
whose job may be sacrificed as a consequence of these policies
are going to be able to regain employment at or above their
previous salary and benefits and be able to remain in their
communities? Because you talked about your own experience in
Illinois.
Mr. Turk. Well, absolutely, and having grown up in a small
town, a Rust Belt town, I saw what job losses meant, not only
for the people whose paychecks were lost, but the families and
the communities and the businesses that depended on that
funding. And I think it's not only a responsibility of
government from a practical perspective, but I think it's a
moral responsibility to work with communities across the
country and make sure that we have the opportunities and the
fair chance that all Americans deserve. Again, this is not
going to be easy. I don't think there's any quick fixes here. I
think this is going to require an awful lot of work and,
hopefully, collaboration between Congress and the Executive
Branch.
Senator Barrasso. You know, on his first day in office,
President Biden revoked the permit for the Keystone XL
pipeline. As a result, a thousand workers lost their jobs and
about 10,000 future jobs that would have been created to finish
the pipeline ended up getting canceled. Last month, President
Biden failed to impose sanctions on any additional companies
building the Nordstream II pipeline. You have been spending
time in Europe. You know that is the pipeline that is going to
Europe. It is a natural gas pipeline that is going to enable
Russia to gain a position of dominance on a number of our
allies in Europe, and it is going to ensure the Russian workers
keep their jobs.
Yesterday 40 Senators, 40 of us, sent a letter urging
President Biden to impose sanctions on entities involved with
Nordstream II. So Mr. Turk, why is President Biden favoring
Russian workers and Russian energy over American workers and
American energy when it comes to pipelines?
Mr. Turk. Well, I think what we need to be focused on is,
as you mentioned, Ranking Member Barrasso, real world jobs, not
just the eye in the sky thinking--pie-in-the-sky thinking and,
especially for pipeline workers, we can build CO2
pipelines. I had a terrific conversation with Senator Hoeven
about some interesting efforts to bring some ethanol plants in
the Midwest and pipe up that CO2 to North Dakota.
There's an opportunity there. There's huge opportunities on
CCUS, if we can work together and really go to scale on CCUS or
hydrogen or critical minerals, a lot of other particular
opportunities from a jobs front, across the spectrum.
Senator Barrasso. I just think that the sad fact is that
President Biden's oil and gas leasing ban in the United States,
cancellation of the Keystone XL pipeline, and his failure at
the same time to sanction entities involved in the Nordstream
II pipeline all add up to an energy policy that seems to favor
Russia over the United States.
Let me go to my last question on liquefied natural gas,
since you just raised that. Last June before this Committee you
were here to testify and you said, U.S. liquefied natural gas
continues to play a unique role in enhancing market efficiency
and supply security all around the world. Can you expand upon
your comments for the Committee?
Mr. Turk. Well certainly, if I'm confirmed, I understand
the jurisdiction of the Department of Energy under the Natural
Gas Act to examine gas export applications under the public
interest determination. Those are specific determinations for
specific LNG export applications and I would certainly look to
apply that under the law as given. I also think we need to
focus very much, and I know members of this Committee have
focused on this, on methane emissions and natural gas. We've
got to do a better job in the U.S. and we've got to help and
work with and pressure other countries, Russia and others, to
really get their acts together on methane emissions.
Senator Barrasso. So you do see the political benefits from
exporting American liquefied natural gas to our allies across
the world?
Mr. Turk. So we're a democracy. We're a leader of the free
world. We are the leader of the free world. I think it's a much
better outcome for Japan or others to get their energy supplies
from the U.S. than to get it from Russia or other countries.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Cantwell [presiding]. Thank you.
Senator Wyden.
Senator Wyden. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Last year, Mr. Turk, wildfires hit Oregon like a wrecking
ball. And just last month, a winter storm left thousands of
Oregonians with no power. I have legislation to drive power
companies to increase their efforts to make their utility lines
more resistant to these major weather events by increasing
activities like undergrounding power lines, reinforcing utility
poles, and clearing away brush. This is important to do so that
power companies can do more and these costs do not come at the
expense of rural ratepayers. If you are confirmed, will you
commit to working with me to move this legislation forward and
making our power grid more resilient?
Mr. Turk. I think we've seen, not only in Oregon and out
West, we've seen in Texas, we've seen in other parts of the
country the importance of resilience of our grids. It's
something that we need to work at. If I'm confirmed, I look
forward to working with our terrific colleagues in the
Department of Energy, the national labs, with experience here,
to do exactly as you suggest, Senator.
Senator Wyden. And one other question, if I might, with
respect to clean energy jobs and technology. In both of them,
and I have enjoyed talking with you about this, Mr. Turk, both
grid resilience and clean energy jobs in technology are going
to take bringing science-based decision-making back to the
Department of Energy. I believe you are going to do that with
Secretary Granholm, and that is why I am going to be supporting
your nomination.
Now, in addition to grid resilience, we talked about clean
energy and how it and climate change, addressing climate
change, go hand in hand. And together, if you do them right,
you create high skill, high wage, clean energy jobs. Now, the
Department of Energy, with its research and vast array of
technologies, is poised to not only lower its emissions, but to
mobilize a workforce as well. Tell us a little bit about how
you would use these new technologies to create new clean energy
jobs.
Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Senator and thank you for
spending some time talking with me, not only on basketball
which is a passion we both share but more generally----
[Laughter.]
Senator Wyden. ----won last night.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Turk. Good.
Just a few thoughts responding to your questions. First, on
science-based decision-making, I've worked in a variety of
different jobs throughout my career, national security, energy,
et cetera and one thing from the International Energy Agency,
my most recent, my current employer, it is a data-driven
organization. The challenges that we face in the U.S. on
energy, on climate change, are too important not to base our
decision-making on solid facts, on solid data, on solid
analysis. So I completely agree with that point.
And then, secondly, we are in the midst of a clean energy
revolution. It's incredibly exciting to see the price points
and where they've come on solar, on wind, on a range of clean
energy technologies. We need a wide array of energy
technologies. And the jobs associated with those clean energy
technologies. If we're smart, and this is not going to be
something that's easy or going to happen overnight, we're going
to have to work at it day in and day out, but it's something
I'm particularly eager for, if I'm confirmed to be the Deputy
Secretary of Energy.
Senator Wyden. Well, there are a variety of paths for
getting there. As you know and we talked about, there are 44
separate tax breaks for energy. Many of those breaks date back
to yesteryear, and I have an effort to collapse those 44 into
3. And so, there are a variety of strategies we are going to
want to work with you and Secretary Granholm on.
I have a little bit of time left, but I want to shift to
another hat that I wear on the Intelligence Committee, and that
is the need to address the challenge of cybersecurity. I think
we have seen, and saw it again just a matter of weeks ago, that
some of the challenges are with countries who certainly do not
always wish us well. So tell us, if you would, about some of
your priorities. What are the couple of things you want to work
on in the cybersecurity area right out of the gate?
Mr. Turk. Well thank you, first of all, for your
chairmanship of the Finance Committee which is incredibly
important on all sorts of issues, but especially on the tax
incentives or others, kinds of incentives that the Finance
Committee has jurisdiction in. I know the 48C piece of
legislation on manufacturing incentives was introduced recently
by Chairman Manchin, Senator Stabenow, that's another exciting
tool in the tool belt, if I could.
Completely agree with you, Senator, on cybersecurity. It's
a challenge for us today and it's going to be an increasing
challenge for us in the coming days, weeks and months as well.
It's an issue I focused on in a variety of different previous
experiences. I think it's something that we need to look by
building grid resiliency in by design. This is something that
there's a very important technology component to it, but it's a
very important procedures and practice perspective, not only
from the Federal Government, but working with private
utilities, companies, so that everybody builds digital
resilience in. There are going to be attacks. There are attacks
on a daily basis, on an hourly basis to our grids. We've just
got to get ahead of the curve as much as we possibly can. And
the Department of Energy has some terrific capabilities,
including in the national labs, to work with the Department of
Homeland Security, the White House and others to be a part of
the solution here.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
Senator Wyden. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
Senator Lee.
Senator Lee. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and thank you for
being with us, sir, and for your willingness to serve, if
confirmed.
In some parts of the world, including many parts of Asia,
coal generally and a type of coal that burns dirtier than what
much of what we produce in Utah and in other parts of the
United States still makes up an overwhelming majority of the
energy mix. In light of the fact that they are burning a lot of
that to make energy in Asia, do you think that in order to
bring down emissions in the short- to mid-term, that we are
going to need to continue to export LNG and, in some instances,
cleaner burning coals like those we have in Utah?
Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Senator, for the question. And
as I've mentioned, I'm a firm believer that energy is good.
It's emissions that we really have to focus on. And CCUS is a
technology, other potential solutions as well. I look forward,
if I'm confirmed, to working with you, working with other
Senators who are interested in those technologies to try to
really bring them to scale. We've only had the tip of the
iceberg on CCUS technologies. We really need to get going with
that.
Senator Lee. What about LNG though? On the LNG component
though, it would be better I would imagine for the environment
if there were countries that are still relying primarily on
coal for generating electric power to start burning natural gas
rather than coal, particularly the dirtier coal, would it not?
Mr. Turk. So under the Natural Gas Act the Department of
Energy needs to make a national interest determination if it's
for gas, LNG, going to a non-free trade association country and
one of the things that should be taken into account, along with
a lot of other things, is what is that gas displacing or
substituting for where that gas is going? If it's going to
countries, Caribbean countries, others where it's diesel or
where it's coal, then you would have a net positive in terms of
the climate benefit on that. But it's a very particularized
determination.
Senator Lee. Right.
I guess I am just trying to understand, in that
circumstance, if that is what we would be replacing why
wouldn't we want to export it? If there is demand for a U.S.
product and that U.S. product would be better for the
environment, what would be the downside of allowing it to be
exported?
Mr. Turk. So again, it's looking at each application, the
particular circumstances of that application. If I'm confirmed,
I would certainly be part of that effort trying to look at it
in that particular circumstance.
Senator Lee. Yes, no, no, I get that. I am just trying to
imagine what that circumstance might be, if you looked at one
and said no, this isn't going to go. What sort of circumstance
might get you there?
Mr. Turk. Well again, I don't--I've not been confirmed yet.
I hope I would have the support of this Committee and Senators
to take into that job and I think we need to see the particular
circumstances. I certainly wouldn't want to prejudge any
particular circumstances coming before the Department.
Senator Lee. Do you support an administrative moratorium on
oil and gas leasing on federal lands?
Mr. Turk. So this is a Department of Interior jurisdiction.
I understand it's a pause. It's on federal lands. It's not on
state and local lands. And it doesn't impact current leases and
there are a backlog of those leases going on as well. So from
the Department of Energy perspective, I think we're a solutions
catalyst. I think it's a phenomenal department, I hope to be a
part of again. And I think the Department of Energy role here
is to try to promote technology solutions to try to use its
levers so that we have a full swath of clean energy
technologies, have a full swath of job opportunities, whether
it's critical minerals, CCUS hydrogen, full range of
opportunities.
Senator Lee. Okay. On that topic of the full range of
opportunities, one of President Biden's objectives is renewable
energy and a lot of his objectives for renewable energy are
going to require mineral access and mineral production. Do you
support the domestic extraction and production of minerals?
Mr. Turk. So I think critical minerals is a huge
opportunity space for the U.S. A, to get out and improve our
national security because we're relying too much on some of
those national critical minerals from countries, China, the
Congo, et cetera. An average electric vehicle uses five times
the critical minerals as an internal combustion engine.
Senator Lee. Right.
Mr. Turk. So critical minerals, even more important. So I
think we need to work on the full supply chain, sustainable
mining----
Senator Lee. And so far as you need those minerals and
those minerals have got to come from somewhere, I think it is
safe to say that the United States has better environmental
restrictions in place than many, perhaps most, in some cases
all, of the other countries from which we could obtain them. It
seems to me that it would be better to get those here, given
that it is done in a much more environmentally responsible
fashion here. Do you disagree with that?
Mr. Turk. So I think there's a very compelling national
security case. There's a compelling jobs case. Of course, there
are other agencies, other departments that will be making
decisions on this issue. Department of Energy is part of the
table entering into those discussions. And if I'm confirmed, I
look forward to doing what we can from the Department to have,
as Secretary Granholm so eloquently has put it, have a real
plan on critical minerals, all the way through the supply chain
and be very aggressive about that. And very much look forward
to working with you, Senator, on that and others who are
interested in that issue.
Senator Lee. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Lee.
Mr. Turk, congratulations on your nomination. I wanted to
go over a few very important issues for us in the State of
Washington, particularly at Hanford. There have been some
changes in how the defense contracts work, particularly with
subcontractors. One of the goals I think we have is to have a
more efficient and effective regime. In the long-term, I think
it will probably be a positive thing, but in the short-term, we
are seeing some loss of small businesses because of this.
Will you commit to work with us on these issues to make
sure that during this time of the pandemic, we are not losing a
core infrastructure? The whole reason why this is important is,
nobody wants this to be all about big, prime contractors.
People want other small businesses in the tri-cities to get
parts of the defense contracts. If the change we are making is
about more efficiency, but in the end, gets rid of this layer
of small businesses and they are not there to do the
subcontracting work, it is not going to be a positive result.
Will you work with us to ensure a smoother implementation and
to help those small business and the small business
infrastructure of the tri-cities?
Mr. Turk. Well, absolutely, Senator Cantwell and thank you
for your years of focus on what is the largest cleanup site and
incredibly complicated in the DOE's jurisdiction. I know it's a
priority for you. It will be a priority for me if I'm confirmed
as Deputy Secretary. And the particular----
Senator Cantwell. Right.
I am going to ask you a couple more questions, sorry.
Mr. Turk. No worries.
Senator Cantwell. Are you committed to proposing funding
for Hanford that aligns with the tri-party agreement
milestones, and do you commit to meeting all the tri-party
agreement milestones?
Mr. Turk. I know there's been a lot of frustration with the
previous administration to lowball their funding requests here
in a way that's not helpful for the process and I'd certainly
look forward to working with Secretary Granholm to make sure
that we have the kind of funding, the kind of budgeting to be
helpful. And just on your particular circumstances in Hanford,
I want to get to that, absolutely look forward to working with
you on that.
Senator Cantwell. Well, right, thank you.
And then on HAMMER, which is a workforce continuum of
opportunity to train the workers on the safety and security
they need to do this job. Do you support the Hanford HAMMER
Center?
Mr. Turk. Well, we need to have our workers safe. We need
to have the skills. We need to have the small businesses taken
care of, just as you mentioned. So, yes.
Senator Cantwell. Okay. Thank you for mentioning the 2020
bill, and I thank my colleague for helping get grid
modernization as part of that. I think nobody here in the
Committee would be surprised to know that we have had
vulnerabilities in our grid. We have all been trying to focus
on it, but certainly the big storm that hit the United States,
Uri, that had impacts not just in Texas, but in the upper
Midwest, caused a lot of problems. I mean, the storm caused
rolling blackouts. Everybody is hearing the stories about
Texas, but in the Midwest, Midcontinent Independent System
Operator had problems, and so did the Southwest Power Pool
region. These are issues that people are starting to talk
about. I think the damage from Uri is something like $100
billion.
One of the things we need to discuss is more resiliency and
more effectiveness of our grid. There are people that think
that we can invest more in transmission and interconnectivity
to help decarbonize, but that also includes reliability and
addressing the risk of cybersecurity that my colleague from
Oregon was also bringing up. Do you agree with reports that
upgrading the transmission capacity and adding new capacity
helps us by both decarbonizing and actually helping lower
electricity costs?
Mr. Turk. Absolutely. The investments we need to make in
the grid--and thank you for your leadership on this issue for
many, many years--are absolutely critical to achieve our
climate change objectives, to achieve our resiliency of our
grids and to make sure that the power stays on, even in times
of challenge. We need to do better.
Senator Cantwell. What would you do as Deputy to help
elevate this issue?
Mr. Turk. So we've got phenomenal talents at the Department
of Energy, not only at headquarters, but throughout the
national labs, whether it's PNNL, that you know very well, or
NREL or others, and we need to take that work. We need to work
with our interagency colleagues. We need to work with the
Congress and really come up with a much more robust game plan
for how we deal with these issues. So I look very forward to
working with you on that issue.
Senator Cantwell. Great. Well, I definitely think we need
to make more investments. We are going to have another round of
discussion on infrastructure. I definitely plan on proposing
more investments in the grid as part of those infrastructure
goals for the United States.
I think Senator Daines is next.
Senator Daines. Thank you, Chairman Cantwell.
Mr. Turk, thanks for being here today. Thanks for your
willingness to serve. I would like to invite you out to Montana
to see firsthand the many issues that we are talking about
today and to follow up on a conversation that we had prior to
this hearing. I know you have traveled a lot in your life, but
I believe there is no place like Montana, that we have rich
natural resources. We have a diverse energy portfolio, and I
think we struck a good balance between natural resource jobs,
what that does for our economy, and our tax base, as well as
conservation.
But I would like to start by focusing first on critical
minerals, following up on some of the questions Senator Lee
asked earlier. Domestic critical mineral production creates
high paying jobs in Montana. It helps bolster our rural
communities who are really struggling across our state. And
importantly, as you mentioned, it strengthens U.S. national
security. But I believe there is disconnect between the
discussions that we were having about expanding renewable
energy production and how we source the raw materials we will
need to build out these new energy facilities. It takes raw
materials. It takes raw materials that are mined from the
earth. And there, you know, there is a movement afoot that
wants to keep everything in the ground, coal, natural gas, oil,
as well as all minerals and I think that is a dangerous
ideology as we think about the future for our country. If the
Biden Administration is serious about expanding renewable
energy, protecting the environment, increasing good, high
paying jobs and protecting our national security, then it
should be serious about expanding domestic mineral production.
Mr. Turk, you spent years working on international and
national security issues. Do you share my concerns with the
mineral supply chain as it relates to renewable energy?
Mr. Turk. So the short answer is, absolutely.
And thank you for the time that you made to have a
conversation with me earlier. I have to say I'm incredibly
jealous that you get to go to Montana on a regular basis. It's
an incredibly special place. I'd be happy to come out there and
visit with you and your constituents.
And I couldn't agree with you more on the importance of
critical minerals. It's not only an opportunity, as you said,
for jobs, for well-paying jobs, throughout the supply chain,
but I think it's a responsibility. It's a responsibility from a
national security perspective.
Senator Daines. One of the questions I had during the
nomination of now-Secretary Granholm was, she agreed that it
was important to promote responsible domestic mineral
production for renewable energy. Would you find agreement with
her thoughts there?
Mr. Turk. So, as hopefully my new boss, I will agree with
everything that she says publicly, of course. And on this, I
certainly agree with her on that. And I would look forward, if
I'm confirmed, to have the DOE and the labs focus their
solutions catalyst powers to try to make sure that we can do
the mining as environmentally friendly, as responsible as it
possibly can so that we can have the whole chain on critical
minerals.
Senator Daines. And when you think about DOE, what role do
you think they should play in securing the critical mineral
supply chain?
Mr. Turk. So I think DOE can have a huge role. The clean
energy technologies of the future, the electric vehicles, as I
mentioned, five times the amount of critical minerals. There's
a lot of analysis that we can do. There's a lot of innovation
that needs to take place throughout the supply chains to reduce
costs and to make sure that these critical minerals are
available as cheaply, as environmentally responsible as they
can play. So I think DOE has a number of roles, important
roles, and working with other important departments, of course.
Senator Daines. You know, it was just last Congress, in
fact, Chairman Manchin, myself, others on this Committee were
successful in getting the REACT legislation signed into law.
This bill directs DOE to help develop methods of extracting the
rare earth elements actually from coal. If confirmed, will you
prioritize this new bipartisan program?
Mr. Turk. Well, congratulations on that particular piece of
legislation and I would, if I'm confirmed, absolutely look
forward to working with you and your staff on that.
Senator Daines. I want to shift gears and follow up with a
conversation that we had, the good conversation we had prior to
this hearing regarding CCUS. The International Energy Agency,
which you have had numerous leadership positions at since 2016,
states and I quote, ``reaching net zero emissions will be
virtually impossible without CCUS.'' I believe Montana can and
should play a major role in the future development and
commercialization of CCUS technology. As we chatted, we have a
global responsibility as global stewards of the environment to
ensure that we are leading in this technology because that will
help places like China, India and others, as they think about
the need to reduce emissions.
My question is, under your leadership will DOE prioritize
carbon capture technology in order to reduce emissions while at
the same time protecting and expanding our Montana energy jobs?
Mr. Turk. So absolutely and to get to net zero by 2050,
which is what the President has put on the table and I
completely support, we've got to work quickly and we've got to
work on a wide variety of technologies. This is going to take a
wide swath of innovation, working in technologies. CCUS is an
incredibly important technology now. It could be even more
impactful in the future, but we've got to go to scale, go to
scale on it. And my hope is, as should be the case in every
area, the United States should be leading the world on these
technologies with all sorts of market opportunities for our
companies as well. So I look forward to working with you on
that as well, Senator.
Senator Daines. Thank you, Mr. Turk.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Welcome, and congratulations on your
nomination. In particular, thank you for the time you spent
talking with me yesterday. We very much look forward to getting
you out to New Mexico as well to visit Sandia and Los Alamos
and WIPP. I want to focus my first question on something we
spoke a lot about yesterday, in particular, with regard to
current communities in oil and gas basins. I want to get your
thoughts on the long-term role that hydrogen is going to play
in solving some of the challenges that we currently solve with
hydrocarbons, and in particular, the relationship between
today's upstream oil and gas sector and the potential to use
much of that engineering and workforce to really catch up to
the rest of the world with respect to hydrogen?
Mr. Turk. So thank you, first of all, for meeting with me
before this hearing. I very much appreciated that conversation.
And just as with Senator Daines, I'm jealous that you get to go
to New Mexico on a regular basis. One of the favorite places I
ever traveled with my parents was to Chaco Canyon which is just
a remarkable place for those who have not had a chance to go
there.
I enjoyed our conversation, in particular, on hydrogen. As
you know, it's a technology I focused on. I helped co-lead an
extensive report, the most ever analysis we did at the IEA on
hydrogen for the G20. And I think there's huge opportunities
for hydrogen as a versatile part of the clean energy future,
whether for hard to decarbonize industrial applications or
long-distance freight, hydrogen has a lot of capabilities, a
lot of qualities that lend itself toward being very useful in
the future. We need to drive those price points down, certainly
with green hydrogen from electrolysis which is why blue
hydrogen, that is hydrogen with natural gas, in particular,
with CCUS can be an incredibly important part of getting
hydrogen at scale, clean hydrogen, carbon-free hydrogen. And as
we analyze in our report and as we talked about, one of the key
opportunities there to jump-start this hydrogen is look at
where we have industrial clusters, look at where we have those
workers who have worked on technologies that can be useful in
hydrogen, take advantage of that, make the investments there
and really get it to scale and use those hubs as a, really,
jumping-off point for broader application of hydrogen.
Senator Heinrich. Yes, I appreciate that very much. There
is a growing interest, in particular--we have two basins in the
state, and in particular I've seen a lot of interest coming out
of the San Juan Basin--for making that transition to hydrogen
and using the existing infrastructure to support that
transition as well.
Talk to me a little bit about transmission and how we do a
better job of stimulating additional investment there, and the
role that DOE can play when, obviously, much of the challenge
there is siting, local jurisdictions, and dealing with multi-
state challenges of moving transmission across multiple
jurisdictions. But really, what can DOE do to help us
facilitate transmission planning more effectively and jump-
start this so that we can better match up our clean generation
with the areas of demand?
Mr. Turk. So I think transmission is an absolutely key
issue that we need to focus on more, not only at DOE but in
other parts of the Federal Government. Secretary Granholm has
spoken extensively about this. This is an area of passion for
her, rightfully so, and if I'm confirmed, I would certainly
look to do whatever I can do to help on that front. We've got
some great capabilities in the Department, including the
national labs that have focused on transmission in the grids
more generally and really trying to map out where we need
transmission, how to deal with some of the issues going
forward.
One area at the Department that I'd be particularly eager
to boost back up is the Policy Office at the Department of
Energy. During Secretary Moniz's days in the Obama
Administration, when I worked there, the Policy Office was a
very robust office. I think it had 80 or maybe even more people
in that office. Unfortunately, the Policy Office now is maybe
four to five people. It's been very much shrunk back. I think
we need to boost that up so that we can think about these
transmission issues holistically, across the country. And then
we need to work with FERC. We need to work with state and
locals. We need to work with utilities and make sure that we
don't just have nice reports, we need to actually move on the
transmission side of things as well.
Senator Heinrich. I appreciate your approach there, because
it is important for DOE not to just produce reports, but to
engage and find solutions to move these things forward.
Senator Cantwell. Senator Murkowski.
Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Chair. And Mr. Turk, thank
you for being here, but also thank you for your work with IEA
and with our friend, I certainly consider him our friend, Dr.
Birol. I also want to thank all of those at IEA for the
opportunity to serve on the Global Commission on Energy
Efficiency. That was a learning experience for me and I hope it
was beneficial.
I appreciate what you have shared with the Committee about
your interest in critical minerals and the role that plays, the
focus on the full supply chain. I think we have recognized and
several of my colleagues have pointed out the resources that we
have here, what we can provide and to your point, that it is
not only about jobs, but it is a security issue as well--a
national security and energy security. So I look forward to
working with you on that.
You also mentioned the Energy Act and thank you for
recognizing the contribution that came from this Committee and
the work that Senator Manchin and I did to facilitate that. As
you know, within that Act, we provided some new flexibility,
eligibility and expansion and transparency for the Title 17
loan program. This is going to help DOE not only finance large-
scale projects and distribute funds that way but also to make
them available to state-level entities to finance smaller
projects. And as you know, in Alaska we either have the huge,
huge megaproject-like proposals for a natural gas pipeline or
we have smaller projects. We have one that I am really
interested and excited about. It is out near Dutch Harbor. This
is the Makushin Volcano and they are looking to tap into that
geothermal resource there to basically displace diesel in that
community and really work to reduce all levels of emissions.
So the question to you is whether or not or how, I guess,
DOE will allocate funding to these state-level financing
entities, recognizing that that is really going to be key in
terms of resources to, again, some of these smaller-scale
projects. In addition to speaking to how that might be
allocated, I guess I would like to know that you will commit to
better understanding some of these projects that we have in
Alaska that provide great opportunity, whether it is Makushin
and an opportunity for folks to meet with you and share with
you what is going on with that specific project or others. That
takes a trip to Alaska, oftentimes, and we are happy to host
you out there, but can you speak to the Title 17 and the
opportunities that providing resources to our state-run
entities can be helpful for smaller-scale projects?
Mr. Turk. Well absolutely, Senator. And I have to say with
my IEA hat on, thank you for all the partnership with Dr.
Birol. The IEA is a very special organization and having you be
such a partner, including on the Commission, was incredibly
important. And congratulations for the Energy Act. I look
forward to further discussions on critical minerals.
On the loan program, and Secretary Granholm has spoken
about this as well, I personally think this is a huge area of
opportunity for the Department, for communities around the
world. Just yesterday it was announced who the new Head of the
Loan Program is going to be, Jigar Shah, who is an incredibly
dynamic colleague and I think he'll be a terrific leader of
that. But we've got to make the loan program and other parts of
DOE work, not just for big projects, as you say, but for
smaller projects in smaller communities as well. Growing up in
a town of 9,000 people, I know what the kind of employment
means in those kinds of communities.
So I absolutely would love, if I'm confirmed, working with
you, working with your staff, making changes that are necessary
to the loan program or other parts of what DOE is working on to
make sure everyone benefits, all countries, all states, all
communities, can benefit from these opportunities.
Senator Murkowski. Well, it is a considerable initiative
and, again, we want to make it work at all levels.
One of the things that you have indicated a great deal of
interest in is the Arctic Energy Office. I have had an
opportunity to speak to Secretary Granholm about this. Last
year we worked to reestablish that. There is a pretty great
partnership going on with the Cold Climate Housing Research
Center and NREL, the National Renewable Energy Lab. I look at
partnerships like that as really key to what we are going to be
able to do with not only developing critical infrastructure
within the Arctic but also what we are doing to help gain
additional efficiencies, advancing the technologies that will
allow us to do a little bit better in different spaces.
So very quickly because we are out of time here, but what
is your view in terms of what we can do to focus on DOE's role
as it relates to the Arctic?
Mr. Turk. So as we were talking a little bit before the
hearing, I've had experience in Arctic Council activities when
I was with the State Department. It's a shame that not more
Americans appreciate and understand that the U.S. is an Arctic
country, very importantly.
Senator Murkowski. We are working on that.
Mr. Turk. Hopefully we can make progress on that piece. I
think the Arctic Energy Office is an incredibly important
office. It's too small right now. We need to work on that. And
I think there's an awful lot of partnership the Department of
Energy already has and can have even more of. If you think of
the energy challenges that communities in Alaska face, but also
the huge opportunities, whether it's on critical minerals or
elsewhere. So if I'm confirmed, I absolutely would love to work
with you on this further.
Senator Murkowski. Well, we would love to work with you. We
would encourage you to consider a visit when we are all more
able to be traveling. But many, many challenges and we would
like to work with you again on some of the international Arctic
policies as well.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator.
Next we have Senator Hoeven. No, I'm sorry, we have Senator
Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You got the ``H''
right.
[Laughter.]
Senator Hirono. Mr. Turk, I ask the following two initial
questions of every nominee who comes before any of the
committees on which I sit.
The first question; since you became a legal adult have you
ever made unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed any
verbal or physical harassment or assault of a sexual nature?
Mr. Turk. No.
Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered
into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
Mr. Turk. No.
Senator Hirono. Mr. Turk, I was very pleased to hear you
say that you want to restore and beef up the Policy Office,
which has plummeted from, I think I heard you say, 80 people
when you were there to some four or five. I am totally
supportive of the need to make sure that our Policy Office is
able to do what they should be doing. And also, another office
that I am concerned about is the Energy Efficiency and
Renewable Energy (EERE) Office, which has also declined in
employment. I hope that you will also beef up the EERE Office.
Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, thank you, Senator. I was the
Deputy on the Energy Agency Review Team and we took a very
close look at EERE. And what we saw is despite the funding
increases that the Congress appropriated----
Senator Hirono. Yes.
Mr. Turk. ----to EERE over the last several years, the
staffing levels did not increase commensurate with that
funding. So we have a backlog right now, an opportunity to
really bring in a huge amount of new talent in EERE. And if I'm
confirmed, I look very much forward to being helpful to move
that along and to get EERE fully staffed up.
Senator Hirono. I think it is really important for this
Department to have the staffing necessary because, as you
noted, this is a department that should rely on facts, data,
and information, in order to make its decisions.
You may know that Hawaii has an ambitious goal of reaching
100 percent renewable energy power and a carbon neutral economy
by 2045, and DOE has been a key partner for Hawaii in
developing and progressing toward its goals. And just as some
of my colleagues have invited you to visit their states, I
would invite you to come to Hawaii. One of President Biden's
key goals is to take action on climate change and help build
back the economy and create new, well-paying jobs for people
working in clean energy and improving energy efficiency.
You noted that we are in the midst of a clean energy
revolution, and that there is a need for a wide range of energy
technologies. And when you said that, I sensed an enthusiasm on
your part in noting that. Can you talk a bit more about how
this clean energy revolution can support our economic recovery
and create high-quality jobs?
Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Senator. I'd absolutely love to
come visit you in Hawaii and make sure the Department is doing
everything it can to support the opportunities there.
I think this is a huge, huge opportunity for us. The Build
Back Better plan and program that President Biden has put on
the table, the Congress, of course, looking at the recovery
part of stimulus funding after this initial bill, is a huge,
huge opportunity for America. It's a huge opportunity to
transform our grids, to invest in those technologies and again,
I am enthusiastic on the wide range of technologies. There's an
awful lot of potential technologies that can be such a critical
part of the future, but we need to make the investments. We
need to make the investments in the innovation. We need to have
the partnerships with the entrepreneurs, with the companies,
with the investors who are going to take those to scale. So I'm
incredibly enthusiastic at this part of DOE's portfolio, I have
to say.
Senator Hirono. I share your enthusiasm.
As noted, you have a wide variety of experiences, and you
have a long record of serving in Congress, the Department of
Energy, the State Department, the National Security Council,
and the International Energy Agency. Can you just discuss the
times in your career where you had to help people build
consensus and come together, which certainly you would need to
do as Deputy Secretary of Energy? Can you describe a time when
you had to bring some diverse viewpoints together to build
consensus?
Mr. Turk. Well, it's something I enjoy doing. I've had, as
you mentioned, a wide variety of experiences where I've had to
do that. Maybe it comes from my parents, my two older brothers,
younger sister, where you have to have consensus. We've got
three kids, my wife Emily and I, you have to find common ground
with your family as well. And as Senator Conrad said, and I
hope this comes through, especially if I'm confirmed, all the
talk in the world doesn't matter if you don't actually get
something done in the real world. And so you've got to have
discussions. You've got to listen to people. You've got to try
to drive consensus so that we can get on with what we need to
get on to in order to get to our carbon reduction targets, in
order to have the kinds of jobs that we need to.
So absolutely, throughout my career I've really focused on
the consensus building.
Senator Hirono. Thank you very much. It is important for
someone in your position.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Now, Senator Hoeven.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Turk, good to
see you today and thank you for our visit yesterday. We talked
a lot about carbon capture and underground storage. Doctor
Fatih Birol, your former colleague out of the IEA, said that
CCUS is the most important technology that exists in energy
today. And as you know, in North Dakota we are leading the way
forward on, what I call, cracking the code which is capturing
and storing CO2 from coal-fired electric plants, as
well as I told you on ethanol plants.
So my first question is, do you agree that CCUS is
indispensable to marry the benefits of low-cost energy with
environmental stewardship?
Mr. Turk. Well, absolutely, Senator. And thank you for
taking the time to talk with me a few days ago and it was
incredibly impressive to hear all the progress when you were
governor and as a Senator, really leading ahead of the curve on
CCUS and really moving the envelope on that. I think it can be
an incredibly, it already is an incredibly important
technology, but we've really got to get to scale here. And we
need not only the Federal Government moving in that direction,
we need the incentives, the price signals going forward, but we
need corporate leadership and state and local leadership on
this as well. And thank you for all the terrific efforts you've
done in North Dakota.
Senator Hoeven. Well, that--your answer is going in exactly
the right direction. It leads right into my next question that
is, will you work with us to ensure projects that we are
working on, whether it is Project Tundra, whether it is
cooperative agreements between the EERC at the University of
North Dakota and the Department of Energy, whether it is our
efforts to make sure that we enhance 45Q and make sure that we
can utilize the DOE and the RUS Loan Programs so that the
plants can put this equipment in place and then, as you say, we
can, through a partnership between the industry, our state and
the Department of Energy, actually make this happen. Are you
committed to making that happen?
Mr. Turk. So absolutely, Senator. If I'm confirmed, I very
much look forward to working with you and your staff, whether
it's Project Tundra or the terrific partnership with the
University of North Dakota. And let me just highlight, in
particular, especially for you and other Senators involved in
45Q, how important that piece of legislation is and we really
need to get it up and running fully and take advantage of those
incentives.
Senator Hoeven. Right. I appreciate that you worked with my
former colleague, Senator Conrad. It was nice to hear from him
this morning. So I know you have been to North Dakota, I assume
many times, but you will commit to come out to North Dakota
and, of course, see what we are doing? I have already invited
the Energy Secretary and she has committed to come out. But you
will come out and see what we are doing and work with us on it?
Mr. Turk. Any excuse I could get to come back out to North
Dakota, Teddy Roosevelt National Park. I've been to North
Dakota both in the summer and the winter. I think I'd prefer to
come out in the summer, but happy to come out in the winter as
well.
Senator Hoeven. Well that is great. No, you can do your
winter trip to Hawaii and then come see us in the summer. That
would work very, very well. And again, we had a good
conversation today. I appreciate your commitment to work with
us on the CCUS. I just think it is an incredible opportunity
for us to do some amazing things there.
Pipeline infrastructure--we need transmission. We need
pipeline infrastructure to move energy around the country
safely and cost-effectively whether it is renewable or
traditional energy. Are you committed in helping to develop the
energy infrastructure we need?
Mr. Turk. So we've got a huge opportunity on energy
infrastructure, I think, and very much look forward, Senator,
working with you, if I'm confirmed. And I think we have an
opportunity with, as we discussed, CO2 pipelines, in
particular, so that we can take emissions, the CO2
where it's happening, whether ethanol plants or otherwise, and
bringing it to places where there's storage opportunities. So
eager to work with you on all of those issues.
Senator Hoeven. And again, you recognize the value of the
cooperative agreements and are committed to them with energy
centers like the Energy Environmental Research Center at the
University of North Dakota. Do you support those kind of
partnerships with the Department of Energy?
Mr. Turk. So I think those kind of partnerships are
absolutely critical and as you know, we need not only smart
people in DC, we need smart people around the country, smart
people who grew up in their communities and know their
communities best so that we have tailored solutions for
particular geographies, particular communities. So I think
those partnerships are absolutely critical.
Senator Hoeven. And then the last area is commitment to the
national labs and the update in the research that is necessary
for our nuclear deterrent--committed to support that effort?
Mr. Turk. So, completely agree. As we've talked about Minot
Air Force Base, in particular, plays such an important role,
two legs of the triad, just at Minot and it's an incredibly
important part of the jurisdiction at the Department of Energy.
And I certainly look forward to working with you, if I'm
confirmed, to make sure that we have a safe, reliable, secure
stockpile.
Senator Hoeven. Good. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Turk, and I
really do look forward to working with you.
Thanks so much.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator King.
Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
First, I want to emphasize something you were talking with
Senator Murkowski about, which is partnerships. We have a
partnership between the University of Maine and Oak Ridge
National Laboratory on additive manufacturing and cellulosic
materials used in additive manufacturing. It is very
productive, and I commend it to you. I hope that is the kind of
relationship that we can continue to maintain, support, and
expand.
Mr. Turk. So, thank you, Senator King and thanks for
meeting with me as well before the hearing. I very much
appreciated our conversation. And I think there's all sorts of
partnerships that exist, offshore wind among the additive
manufacturing, other areas and I very much look forward to
strengthening those partnerships.
Senator King. Great. I will look forward to welcoming you
to Maine. You are going to have quite a tour between North
Dakota, Montana, and New Mexico, and I hope you can add Maine
to the list.
Mr. Turk. Well, Maine is a beautiful state, Acadia National
Park and all else in Maine. So, happy and eager to get up
there.
Senator King. Well, we are looking forward to it.
Methane, I believe, is the low-hanging fruit of climate
change. And to the extent the Department can sponsor, through
ARPA-E or other programs, research in terms of methane control
and capture, I think that is an enormously important part of
the work that you can do. As you know, methane is 80 times more
potent a greenhouse gas than CO2. It resides in the
atmosphere for a shorter period. So if we can cut the amount of
methane that is going into the atmosphere, that is a big deal.
I understand that there is a project with Bridger Photonics in
Bozeman, Montana, working on high tech ways to detect these
leaks. That is the kind of research and development that I
think we need, and I hope methane can be a focus of your
attention because it is intimately related to energy production
and energy generation.
Mr. Turk. Well, I couldn't agree with you more. Methane not
only needs to be a focus of the Department of Energy and if I'm
confirmed, my focus, but frankly, all of us. It's an
incredibly, it's incredibly frustrating that we have so much
methane emissions in the U.S. and other countries around the
world when we have cost-effective solutions and actually make
money in many circumstances, so----
Senator King. Yes, this is a place where we do not have to
spend a fortune. It is relatively low cost in terms of the
benefit.
Let me move on. After methane, I think, and is equally
important in the long-term energy picture, is storage. I do not
think there is anything more important that you can do, along
with research on methane, than research on storage. We need
100-hour grid-scale storage. Once that occurs, the potential of
renewables will be truly unlocked, and I see that as one of the
most important things you could do. Talk to me about storage
and where it will be on your priority list.
Mr. Turk. So storage needs to be at the very top of the
priority list. It's an incredibly important technology. One of
the things I'd be particularly excited about, if I'm confirmed
at the DOE. We've talked about these Earthshots to really try
to have ARPA-E, the labs, the applied offices, all working
together, seamlessly across the Department of Energy enterprise
and Long Duration Storage Earthshots, I think, makes a ton of
sense to make sure that we're doing everything we possibly can,
especially with that Long Duration Storage, as you suggest.
Senator King. Well, one other aspect of that--and this ties
back to your current, or your most recent, occupation--is that
I have always thought this would be something that we should be
pursuing internationally. Why should everybody be trying to
invent the same thing? And if there can be international
collaboration on development of a technology that will help the
entire world, it seems to me that the Department of Energy
ought to also be focused on fostering that kind of
collaboration on these joint problems.
Mr. Turk. Well, I completely agree. The U.S. is the
innovation powerhouse. Has been. Needs to be. But take storage,
if we had storage solutions, long duration, cost-effective,
storage solutions, you look at a country like India. India,
over the next couple decades will build an additional grid the
size of Europe on their already sizable grid. If they had
storage solutions that allowed them to go even further in
solar, even further in wind, then they wouldn't have to build
so much, so many other kinds of sources that are more carbon
intensive. So storage is a key part, not only in the U.S. but
internationally.
Senator King. Of course, a molecule of CO2 does
not care what country it comes from, as far as its impact on
the climate.
Mr. Turk. Well, that's right. I think that's why we have
to, the U.S. should lead here. The U.S. should lead
ambitiously.
Senator King. One final question for the record, because I
am out of time. In terms of grid modernization, is the problem
wires and poles or is it software and technology? In other
words, is the grid inadequate physically, or is it a question
of management and the technology of integrating new power
sources, for example?
Mr. Turk. So I think it's both and we need to have the
planning to take into account the technology piece, but also
the management piece as well and to be really holistic, forward
thinking, building the grids of the future. We've got
transmission issues we need to work on in parts of the country.
We've got distributed energy resources coming on to the grid.
We need to have the grid that can appropriately deal with
those.
Senator King. But the grid of the future does not
necessarily involve lots of new wires and poles. It may involve
more of the technology of integrating resources.
Mr. Turk. Well, absolutely right. We need to be smart. We
need to be smart and cost-effective about this, and the
solutions of the past don't need to be the solutions of the
future.
Senator King. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Senator Lankford.
Senator Lankford. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
Mr. Turk, good to see you and thanks for the long
conversation that we have already had. Let me walk through a
couple things just to be able to get some high points here.
How many years do you think we are going to continue to
have the internal combustion engine used in America?
Mr. Turk. So electric vehicles have made incredibly
impressive strides over recent years, but it's still in the
single digits percentage for car sales. Now some other
countries are ahead of that. General Motors, others are making
very ambitious electric vehicle targets, but internal
combustion engines will certainly be with us for several more
years.
Senator Lankford. Yes, you have studied this for a long
time. You have looked at some of the length of it. Is that five
more years? Is that ten more years? Is that 50 more years? Just
based on the studies that you have already been a part of and
the teams you have been around.
Mr. Turk. Well, so it's very difficult to predict these
kinds of technologies.
Senator Lankford. Oh yes.
Mr. Turk. It's the price point. It's range anxiety with
electric vehicles and certain applications. So there's a number
of things that need to happen for electric vehicles to take
off, like can be helpful from a climate change perspective for
sure. So it's very difficult to predict where this is going. We
do see some countries, Norway has about--50 percent of each
vehicle sold in Norway is electric vehicle. Most other
countries are in the single digits.
Senator Lankford. Right. But still back to my same
question, how long do you think we are going to use the
internal combustion engine? What are the estimates that are out
there? You have read it. What are the estimates that are out
there? How long? And I understand there is technology that is
very disruptive in every area on this. We talk a lot about
electric but then hydrogen continues to say, hey, we are back
here as well. So there is lots of other technologies that are
rising and all of those are good. I am just asking about the
internal combustion engine. What is your best guess on what are
the estimates out there?
Mr. Turk. So the way we do it at the IEA is we run
scenarios and look at different versions of the future. What
does that mean for this technology or that technology and they
really range incredibly significantly. Those have been updated
in recent time to have more electric vehicles coming on quicker
given the corporate commitments, given the other commitments,
but internal combustion engines certainly, you know, there's an
issue where electric vehicles work quite well for passenger
vehicles, more challenging for long, for freight transport as
well. So we need solutions there.
Senator Lankford. How many years do you think we will still
have the internal combustion engine? That was the original
question.
Mr. Turk. So----
Senator Lankford. Really not trying to be combative, just
trying to get that number.
Mr. Turk. Well, and I'm trying to, you know--it depends on
a lot of decisions that we don't know from the government side,
from the private sector side. It's certainly going to be with
us for this decade, next decade. We'll see where the corporate
commitments and the other government commitments are made.
Senator Lankford. So at least 20 more years?
Mr. Turk. So internal combustion engines, the other thing,
a lot of people, I know where I grew up, we kept our car for
10, 15, 20 years.
Senator Lankford. Exactly.
Mr. Turk. So we've got an awful lot of internal combustion
vehicles right now on the market that will be here for many,
many years to come.
Senator Lankford. Okay. That is my concern, is that there
seems to be a sense in some in DC, and I am not saying you have
that sense, that somehow we are going to sell enough Teslas
that folks that are driving their 1982 Ford truck are just
going to park it. And unless there is some assumption that I
don't know of, that so far President Biden has not said and
hope he wouldn't say that there's going to be some kind of
imposition to say, you have to turn off that vehicle, they are
going to be around for a long time.
And a lot of folks, especially folks that are in poverty,
because electric vehicles are very expensive to be able to
purchase that I don't want to create a mandate on people in
poverty to suddenly say your gas prices are going to skyrocket
so we are going to force you out of this basically raising your
prices and your cost of living. Transportation, obviously, with
diesel engines in carrying semi-trucks, every single product
that we have is very dependent currently on oil and gas. So
again, I am an all-of-the-above energy state. We are proudly
that in Oklahoma. We, 45 percent renewable is in our mix and I
have had multiple different folks from the Biden team that I
have talked to that the states they are from are not close to
what Oklahoma's fuel mix is for our diversity of fuel and they
lecture me about being more diverse in fuel. And I say, I will
hear that as soon as you match what we are already doing.
But saying that, I do want folks to be able to know that we
cannot make a rapid transition. The folks in my state are very
concerned there will be unrealistic expectations that will be
put down on people immediately and they will suddenly lose
their jobs based on a mandate from someone who is trying to
create something rather than recognizing what is. Does that
make sense?
Mr. Turk. Well, it makes perfect sense. And from the DOE
perspective it is a solutions catalyst and there's an awful lot
that the DOE can do to keep reducing those price points.
Affordability, I think, is absolutely key whether you're
talking about vehicles or electricity. We need to have
reliability, security, affordability and clean energy as well.
So there's a lot more that we can do, should be doing, to
reduce these price points to make these technologies affordable
for everyone.
Senator Lankford. I know I am a couple seconds over. This
is a very quick answer. Energy independence, is that a national
security issue or national preference issue, whether it is
critical minerals, whatever it may be. Is energy independence
national security or national preference?
Mr. Turk. National security.
Senator Lankford. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Turk. Thank you, Senator.
The Chairman. Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Turk, thank you so much for taking the time to meet
with me earlier this week, and congratulations, again, on your
nomination. You are not going to be surprised by the first
question that I ask. We all believe in Nevada that Yucca
Mountain is not suitable for a national nuclear waste
repository, and during her confirmation hearing, now-Secretary
Granholm confirmed that the Biden Administration opposes
storing nuclear waste and spent fuel at Yucca Mountain. The
Secretary also committed to working with my office and the rest
of the Nevada Congressional Delegation in finding workable,
consent-based solutions to better address the disposal of our
nation's nuclear waste.
So are you in agreement with the Administration's position
on Yucca Mountain, and will you also commit to working with the
Nevada delegation on consent-based solutions?
Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Senator and thanks for meeting
me, with me ahead of this hearing. And as you said and as
Secretary Granholm has said, President Biden has been very,
very clear on Yucca Mountain. And I think we need to do exactly
as you suggest, take the recommendations of the Blue Ribbon
Commission and have consent-based options for our nuclear waste
in this country. And we need to think of those incentives that
will work for those communities who have their consent so that
we can deal with this issue in a rational, reasonable and
responsible manner.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you.
On a separate subject, last year, the State of Nevada
finalized an agreement that I helped to secure with DOE to
begin removing the one half metric ton of plutonium this year
that had been secretly shipped to the Nevada National Security
Site from the Savannah River site in South Carolina. And
Secretary Granholm has reported that the National Security
Administration and DOE are on track to meet this agreement. If
confirmed, will you commit to maintaining a strong line of
communication with my office and Senator Rosen's office as the
agency continues to work to adhere to this agreement with the
State of Nevada?
Mr. Turk. Absolutely.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Nevadan's trust in the Department of Energy's nuclear
program has long been strained. So my question for you is, if
confirmed, what will you do to improve communication and help
it build back that trust with the State of Nevada?
Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Senator, and as we talked about,
and as other Senators have asked about, I prided myself
throughout my career on really listening, really working on the
communication and as we talked about, we need solutions that
work for particular communities, particular states as well. So
I absolutely commit to you to make sure that the lines of
communication, if I'm confirmed, with myself, with others at
the Department of Energy are very much, very much there.
Senator Cortez Masto. Mr. Turk, thank you.
Last week, the Biden Administration released an Executive
Order directing federal departments and agencies to identify
ways to secure the U.S. supply chains, including critical
minerals, which we have talked about this morning, and large
capacity batteries, against any type of risk and vulnerability.
Nevada is currently the only state in the U.S. with an active
lithium mine, and we have a number of companies that are in the
process of opening battery recycling facilities, which will be
essential to helping keep our critical minerals in this country
so that they can be reprocessed and fit back into that supply
chain.
As the Department looks to implement the order, what role
do you anticipate battery recycling can play, and will you be
sure to look to Nevada and my office as a resource when it
comes to the significant supply chain opportunities that my
state has to offer?
Mr. Turk. Well, if confirmed, Senator, I very much would
look forward to working with you and your staff on the huge
opportunity that critical minerals represent, not only for
Nevada, but throughout the country, the national security
imperative, the jobs piece, whether that's battery recycling,
lithium mining and I think we need to have those long-term
signals. We need to have this as a real priority for this
country.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
When we spoke earlier this week, we discussed the
opportunities that come with investments in research and
development, and the potential for DOE to dig deeper into the
deployment of emissions-reducing technologies. I recently
introduced a suite of electric vehicles legislation. Among the
bills in the package are DOE programs to deploy clean school
buses and charging infrastructure in our national parks and
forests, as well as legislation to establish an EV commission
co-led by the DOE, which would create a national strategy on
electric vehicles. If you are confirmed, will you commit to
working with my office to ensure that DOE is a strong partner
in helping deploy EV technology?
Mr. Turk. Absolutely. As I mentioned, EV opportunities here
whether it's passenger vehicles or buses or others are
tremendous. I very much would look forward to working with you
and congratulations on your legislation.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, and again, congratulations
on your nomination.
Mr. Turk. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Senator Risch.
Senator Risch. Thank you very much. Mr. Turk, thank you for
your service and thank you for coming here today to answer our,
hopefully not too difficult, questions.
From a very parochial standpoint, I am from the State of
Idaho and we have a place called the Idaho National Lab (INL).
I look at your resume and I, like everybody, people have
specialties and yours seems to be in the climate change lane,
if you would. INL plays an important role in that, obviously,
because nuclear energy is critical to where we are going in the
future. Have you visited the INL by any chance?
Mr. Turk. So I've not a chance to do so. I would love to do
so. I'm very familiar with Idaho National Lab----
Senator Risch. Well, we can help you out by arranging for
such a thing. Go ahead.
Mr. Turk. Good, I'd be happy to come.
Senator Risch. You were saying?
Mr. Turk. Good. I think there's incredible work. I have
talked with folks who work at Idaho National Lab. It's, I
think, just an impressive group of folks there, more generally.
And on the nuclear issue, more generally, I think nuclear has
played such an important part of our carbon-free baseload power
historically. We need to work on the lifetime extensions and
make sure that we have that capability, in my opinion. And then
there's exciting and Idaho National Lab is at the tip of the
spear here, exciting, small modular reactors, other kind of
advanced reactors as well. So if I'm confirmed, I would
absolutely love to work with you and certainly come out and
visit Idaho National Lab.
Senator Risch. Thanks, I appreciate that. You have given a
very brief thumbnail sketch of the Idaho National Lab but it
has a long history, as you know. It was the birthplace of
nuclear power in the United States, in the world and, indeed,
in the universe. We still have the first light bulbs that were
lit by nuclear energy. We have built 52 reactors there. And as
you correctly note, the SMR is a matter in development and it
is exciting to see that they are even looking beyond that
generation to the next generation, to the microreactor which
will change the world, actually, as we go there. And the lab
changed the world when it developed the first reactor. We look
forward to that. It also has a growing mission in
cybersecurity.
In 2018, as you know, the DOE established the Office of
Cybersecurity, Energy Security and Emergency Response, more
commonly known as CESER. And that, the lab in Idaho is playing
a major, major role in those efforts and will continue to do so
because we have some unique capabilities there. We have been at
the nuclear business for many decades and along with that comes
expertise in control systems. And so, that is one of the
reasons why cybersecurity has gravitated to that. Plus, we have
some test beds there that are not duplicated anywhere in the
world, really.
Tell me about your view of the Administration's view of
nuclear energy and where we are going on nuclear energy.
Mr. Turk. So I think--and again, thanks for Idaho National
Lab, as you said, not only leadership on nuclear, but on
cybersecurity which is absolutely critical. So on nuclear
energy, certainly if you look historically at the U.S. and the
current snapshot of where we're at in the U.S., the amount of
carbon-free baseload power coming from nuclear is incredibly
impressive and a big part of the equation. Some countries
have--I've been living in France. France's nuclear numbers are
even higher than in the U.S. in terms of the percentage of
electricity generation. The big issues in advanced economies in
the U.S. and others is do you extend the lifetime of those
plants to keep that baseload, carbon-free power for longer or
not, a critical issue. And then, again, really focusing Idaho
National Lab, other DOE resources, on the small modular
reactors, the, as you said, the exciting opportunities for
nuclear microreactors or otherwise into the future.
Senator Risch. Well, I appreciate that. And I would, would
you call it business as usual when it comes to going forward
with the nuclear in the United States?
Mr. Turk. So certainly when it comes to the small modular
reactors and other technologies--whether it's CCUS, offshore
wind--there can't be business as usual if we're going to be
successful for the American people, to do what we need to do on
the climate change front, to provide the jobs of the future, to
really outcompete China and others. So I think on nuclear and
these other technologies, it can't be business as usual. We
have to have a sense of urgency. We really need to go forward,
boldly, in my opinion.
Senator Risch. I guess maybe that was a bad choice of
words, business as usual. You are telling me that your view is
that we do need to press ahead with the nuclear option of all
of the things that are on the table for us.
Mr. Turk. Well, absolutely, both from the innovation side
of things, but also lifetime extensions and making sure that we
benefit from that baseload power from the existing nuclear
plants as well.
Senator Risch. Certainly a legitimate effort.
My time is up. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Kelly.
Senator Kelly. How about that for timing?
The Chairman. Perfect. Perfect.
Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Turk, thank you for your testimony. Demand management
is going to be very helpful in expanding renewable energy use
in the United States, and Arizona consumers and utilities are
turning to smart thermostats and other devices to shift energy
consumption during peak hours. I understand that the Department
of Energy runs a smartgrid R&D program, and other offices are
working on demand response technology. Has DOE or another
federal agency, as far as you know, looked into expanding or
mandating the use of demand response technology in federal
buildings?
Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, thank you, Senator and this is
an incredibly important area, smart demand response. I think
we've only, and your state is making strides here, I think
we've only had the tip of the iceberg in terms of the potential
for this kind of technology, especially when you match it up
with increasing amounts of solar and wind and intermittent
renewables as well. One of the reports I led at the
International Energy Agency was on digitalization and energy,
really looking at what these digital tools allow us, whether
it's thermostats or refrigerators or other kinds of appliances
that you can turn on, turn off and manage the loads as
efficiently as possible. DOE does do an awful lot in this area.
Not only at DOE Headquarters, but also in the national labs,
NREL and PNNL and a number of national labs are focused on
this.
I think your question is an excellent one. We should be
doing more with the Federal Government infrastructure on smart
demand response. As Secretary Granholm has said very
eloquently, the Federal Government needs to lead by example,
build the markets, prime the pump, if you will. And so, if I'm
confirmed, this is an area I'd be eager to work with you on.
Senator Kelly. Yes, in Arizona last summer, we had a
challenge there. We have three major utilities. When the
temperature rises in California, that is where we usually go
for increased energy capacity when we are running short. It was
a period of a couple weeks, and the utility was able to, when
they got in a tight spot, turn down the thermostats in 30,000
homes across the state. These consumers signed up for this very
effective way to get a utility out of a critical situation.
I want to move to electric vehicles for a second. Arizona
is a major player in the EV space. Last month Lucid Motors in
Casa Grande, which is just outside of Phoenix, built a factory
that is going to be capable of producing an EV car about every
ten minutes, once they are up to full capacity. So what federal
investment or incentives are needed to develop the charging
infrastructure, not only in the State of Arizona, but
nationally, as we expand the number of electric vehicles on the
road?
Mr. Turk. Well, it's terrific to hear of the electric
vehicle progress, including the jobs component of it, in
Arizona. And as Secretary Granholm has spoken so eloquently and
given her experience with vehicles from her time as Governor of
Michigan, it's a huge potential opportunity here and we've got
to move aggressively. What we need to do is have an all-of-
government approach on electric vehicles. DOE has parts of the
responsibility, the Department of Transportation has parts of
the responsibility, and we need to have a unified strategy,
working with you, working with other Senators who are
interested in this issue, so that we can claim those jobs, we
can claim those emission reductions, we can claim those
opportunities going forward.
So very much looking forward to working with you on that,
if I'm confirmed.
Senator Kelly. Well, thank you, Mr. Turk, and I yield back
the remainder of my time.
The Chairman. I think that we might just be down to Mr.
Marshall.
Senator Marshall, my friend.
Senator Marshall. Well, Mr. Chairman, thank you and I am
glad you saved the best for last. I would just remind the
Chairman, I am very grateful for Senator Risch's comments about
the nuclear option being used somewhere other than on the
Senate Floor. So it was exciting to hear him mention some other
type of nuclear options.
All right, Mr. Turk, congratulations and welcome.
As I start my remarks I want to just start by saying that
you and I share so many goals. My goal is that we would leave
this, that I would leave this world cleaner, healthier, safer
than it is today. And I am so proud that I can say that from
growing up in, until to now at least, in Kansas. I think that
is an accurate statement.
Let's keep going in the same direction. At the same time, I
have a responsibility as a Senator, a grandfather, a father, to
what the cost of energy is and as well as the importance of
energy independence. Your goal, my goal, is how do we balance
those, as I hear you, you know, that discussion. I am going to
start just with asking for some simple advice. If you look at
the State of Kansas, my home, hit with 11 days of temperatures
below zero and like many states, suffered during that time. The
State of Kansas and I am very proud of this, 40 percent of
electricity is generated from wind. So 40 percent wind, about a
third of electricity generated from coal, about 18 percent from
nuclear and then whatever else is left. On the other hand, we
heat our homes with a lot of natural gas.
Without the coal plants in Kansas, whatever economic impact
we would have had, it would have been double or triple. Coal
was really, well it was able to keep functioning and nuclear
was able to keep functioning in Kansas, for the most part. I
understand some other places did not. So if you were giving
advice to Kansans and what that mix should look like and what
we can do to prevent this in the future, what would be your
advice and how would you frame that conversation?
Mr. Turk. So the biggest piece of advice is to have
resiliency in all of our energy systems. And I think what we
saw in Texas and other states affected by the recent cold spell
was we weren't resilient on natural gas. We weren't resilient
on coal as much as we could've been. We weren't resilient on
nuclear. We weren't resilient on some of the wind turbines as
well. So we need to have resiliency across all of these sources
and making sure that the electricity grid and the natural gas
pipelines all work, all work in a variety of different
conditions. So I think the resiliency is the piece where I
would focus on and it's, maybe it's not the most interesting
topic or the sexiest of topics or what not, but it's the kind
of work that needs to be done, day in and day out. And
certainly, from the Department of Energy perspective, if I'm
confirmed, I think there's an awful lot the Department can do
working with state and local utilities to try to make all our
systems as resilient as they can be.
Senator Marshall. And with the resiliency certainly comes a
cost and I think that somehow, we need to factor that into the
equation as well.
Let's talk about biofuels, another issue real important to
Kansas. What do you feel the future of biofuels are for
America?
Mr. Turk. Well, as I've said, and I'm a firm believer in
this, to achieve the goals that we need to achieve, whether
you're talking about climate change or you're talking about
jobs, winning the jobs of the future, we need to have a variety
of clean energy technologies, a variety of solutions. From the
Department of Energy side, as Chairman Manchin and others have
pointed to, the innovation agenda, to drive innovation in all
of these areas and technologies. So biofuels is certainly a
very important technology, a very important area and we need to
keep innovating in all of these. We can't take tools off the
tool belt.
Senator Marshall. Great.
I appreciate your concise answers. You are probably--it is
the most concise answers of anybody I have ever heard up here.
I want to talk about innovation and agriculture and carbon
capture. That, you know, right now agriculture is really the
only industry out there really seriously involved with carbon
capture and there are future opportunities as well. What does
that future look like to you, specifically for agriculture?
Mr. Turk. So agriculture has played an incredibly important
role of carbon sinks and really taking a lot of the carbon in
the U.S. and in other countries as well. But I think there's a
lot more potential there. So certainly, if I'm confirmed,
working with the Department of Agriculture, others here, to
really drive that innovation so that we can have cost-
effective--you're right to focus on affordability. We need to
make this cost-effective so that this is an important part of
the future for farmers, ranchers around the country.
Senator Marshall. Well, great.
I just want to brag on agriculture and ranchers. We were
the original conservationists doing so many things for this
carbon sink, like you describe, and soil health. We have been
doing no-till farming on our farm for over 20 years, cover
crops and there are certainly more and more opportunities out
there. We look forward to working with you in agriculture and
energy as well.
Mr. Turk. Well, and I spent my summers going through
cornfields and doing something called detasseling where you go
through and pick the tassels off of corn plants. So whatever I
can do to help you, if I'm confirmed, Senator, eager to work
with you.
Senator Marshall. Well, we will try to get you out there
and do some detasseling in Kansas as well.
[Laughter.]
Thank you so much, and I yield back.
Mr. Turk. I didn't enjoy doing it, just for the record.
[Laughter.]
The Chairman. Senator Hickenlooper, is he still on the
line?
Senator Hickenlooper. Yes, I am here.
The Chairman. Okay, it is your turn, sir.
Senator Hickenlooper. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and
Mr. Turk, I have enjoyed listening to your answers.
Colorado has 60,000 workers who work in clean energy, and
is in the top ten states for jobs in wind and solar. It is a
robust and diverse economy that includes construction and
manufacturing--in many ways, the fast-growing parts of our
economy--and energy efficiency. As you know, DOE's invention
and innovation grant program for individuals and for small
businesses has been unfunded, or minimally funded, for a number
of years. In your opinion, how would more robust funding from
DOE to partner with small businesses, universities, and
national laboratories help bring more clean energy and energy
efficiency to the marketplace?
Mr. Turk. Well, thank you. Thank you, Senator. I think
there's an awful lot that DOE can do and do better with small
businesses in particular, and you certainly know and understand
small businesses given your background. As you know, you have
NREL which is one of our terrific national labs there in
Colorado. They have some programs already. I think there's one
called something like the Wells Fargo Accelerator to try to
work with local businesses and to make sure that the labs, not
only are providing cutting-edge innovation for the whole
country but are working with local partners, local small
businesses to make sure that these are innovation hubs. So I
personally think there's an awful lot more we can do whether
it's with NREL or our other national labs across the country.
Senator Hickenlooper. Great. Obviously, as you mentioned,
DOE has a large presence in Colorado at NREL, out in Golden,
Colorado. I have been there probably at least a dozen times. It
is one of the, I think, most intriguing places because they are
innovating pretty much every day, and they are playing a
leading role in the transition to a sustainable low-emissions
energy system, both for our nation and ultimately, for the
world. They have a remarkable team of researchers and
scientists that are transforming how the nation and the world
use energy making sure that as we develop new energy systems we
are not missing any unintended consequences.
I think the development of these critical infrastructures
and technologies depends on making sure that they have world
class facilities for their research. I think too often we lose
sight of the payback we get from investing in labs, lab
equipment, and facilities to make sure that there is adequate
space for R&D. And I think this helps to attract talent. It
helps us retain talent and then it maximizes the benefit we get
when that talent, either individually or through the synergy of
working together, creates real innovation. I think that enables
us to continue to create the innovation that we have seen be so
successful in the reduction of costs of all sorts of renewable
energy.
Can we get your commitment to make sure we work to ensure
that our national labs get the funding for not just the
personnel they have, but to make sure that they have the
facilities necessary?
Mr. Turk. Well, I'm a firm believer of the national labs,
the 17 national labs. They're the crown jewels of innovation,
not only for the Department, but for the country as a whole.
And as you say, that means making the investments that are
necessary in the facilities, the world class facilities that we
have at NREL and other labs around the country. I've worked
with a lot of colleagues from NREL over the years, the talent
at NREL is incredibly impressive, as it is in our other
national labs as well.
So I would look forward to working with you, Senator, if
I'm confirmed, with others, and I will say, Congress has been
such an incredibly strong supporter, year in and year out of
making those kinds of investments that we need so that we have
those crown jewels, not only for today, but for all our
challenges we'll need them in, in the future.
Senator Hickenlooper. Great. Well, thank you so much, and I
cannot over-emphasize how much I look forward to working with
you going forward. I yield the rest of my time.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Are there any other Senators, if you are on Zoom, that have
not done a first round? Is there anybody on Zoom that we might
have missed? If not, we are going to go with Senator Barrasso
for a second round.
Senator Barrasso. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Just a couple questions considering you have been talking a
lot about nuclear power and nuclear issues. I want to talk
about uranium. For years, Russia and its satellites have
unfairly dumped uranium into the U.S. market. As a result,
America, right now, imports about 90 percent of our uranium
from other countries and about 40 percent of its uranium from
Russia, Kazakhstan, and Uzbekistan. America's uranium
production is at a low right now, a low that we have not seen
since the early `50's. And we talked about this yesterday.
Do you believe it is critical that America maintains its
ability to produce and process our own uranium for our own
nuclear power sector in terms of national security?
Mr. Turk. Yes, I do.
Senator Barrasso. So last year the Department requested
that Congress provide funding to establish a national uranium
reserve and put money into that. Can I have your commitment
that, if confirmed, you will complete the establishment of the
reserve, create the purchasing program and buy American-
produced uranium this year?
Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Senator, for your leadership on
this issue for many years and I'm very familiar with the $75
million that's been appropriated on this. If I'm confirmed, I
certainly look forward, not only in this instance, but in other
instances, making sure the Department is complying with the
will of the Congress, with Article I and certainly look forward
to further talking with you and your staff on this very
important issue.
Senator Barrasso. In addition to our foreign adversaries,
like Russia, the Department of Energy has also actually dumped
uranium into the U.S. market and that has been against the law,
but it has happened in both previous administrations. It has
undercut the price of uranium, resulted in the cancellation of
uranium projects and the loss of jobs in my home State of
Wyoming. The GAO has repeatedly found that the Department's
actions have violated federal law. Finally Secretary Perry has
largely ended the practice.
Can I have your commitment that, if confirmed, you will
ensure that the Department's excess uranium is not put into the
market and we stay compliant with the law?
Mr. Turk. So this is an issue that I've not studied fully.
I don't know the particular context and contours, have not had
a chance, not being confirmed, to talk with our DOE officials.
I would certainly want to do that and talk to them and talk to
you further on that issue.
Senator Barrasso. I want to talk about the renewable fuel
standard. Unlike large oil refineries, small refineries do not
have the economies of scale to comply with our nation's biofuel
mandate, the Renewable Fuel Standard, the RFS. This is why
Congress allowed small refineries to petition the Environmental
Protection Agency for what is known as the Hardship Relief. So
before deciding whether to grant relief, the Administrator of
the EPA is required by law to consult with the Secretary of
Energy. Under the last two administrations, federal courts have
rebuked the EPA and the Department of Energy for failing to
account for all of the challenges that small refineries face
under the RFS.
If confirmed, will you ensure that the Department fully
accounts for the challenges that small refineries face when
evaluating these petitions?
Mr. Turk. Thank you, Senator. I certainly appreciate
whether it's small refineries or small businesses that we need
to look at and make sure that the rules are working for
everyone in that instance. As you note, as you noted, it's an
EPA decision, but DOE does have an opportunity to discuss and
weigh in and certainly, if I'm confirmed, would be eager to do
so. And again, look forward to talking with you further on this
important issue.
Senator Barrasso. Last July, I sent Secretary Brouillette a
letter encouraging the Department of Energy, not to just have
people come and visit Wyoming, but to actually establish a
presence in my home State of Wyoming. If confirmed, would you
give serious consideration to this request to create a
Department of Energy office in Wyoming?
Mr. Turk. So, absolutely, Senator. I don't need to tell you
how much of an energy powerhouse Wyoming is. I think it's 15
times the amount of energy that you consume that you produce
and benefit the rest of the country. So I would be more than
eager to talk to you further about that, if I'm confirmed.
Senator Barrasso. Finally, Mr. Chairman, a number of people
have asked you during the hearing about rare earth minerals and
China's dominance there. There is actually a lead editorial in
today's Wall Street Journal and it is, ``Rare Truths About
China's Rare Earths.'' I would just recommend that to you and a
number of our members have seen it and follow it.
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Senator Barrasso. Congratulations on your nomination.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
And Mr. Turk, I just want to thank you, on behalf of the
Committee, for being willing to serve in this most important
position. The expertise you bring has been very well on display
today, and we appreciate your directness, the knowledge you
have, and you sharing it with the rest of our country. I would
hope that there is going to be bipartisan support. I think
there will be. I think that we have a good group of people here
that realize your talents.
With that, we do have concerns. I know that Senator
Barrasso just mentioned one, on rare earth minerals. We feel
like we are being held hostage. There is so much more we can do
with the waste streams that we have. We are hoping that you
will look at that and work with us. We are hoping to make sure
that the technology dollars that we put in our energy bill at
the end of the year are put into your budget to immediately
start doing good and finding those new technologies through
innovation. The NETL lab is very important, as you understand,
to our entire chain, but it is the one that we have total
control over, and is being shortchanged right now.
So there is an awful lot of things we want to work with you
on. And we think that you, with Secretary Granholm, are going
to make a great team. We are here for you in a very bipartisan
way, and we want to work with you.
Thank you, sir, again. Thank you.
Mr. Turk. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. The Committee will stand adjourned.
Oh, I am sorry. Members will have until 6 p.m. this evening
to submit additional questions for the record. So members will
have until 6 p.m. this evening.
Thank you again, Mr. Turk.
Mr. Turk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Meeting adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:31 p.m. the committee adjourned.]
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