[Senate Hearing 117-107]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                      S. Hrg. 117-107

                             HAALAND NOMINATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                                   to

        CONSIDER THE NOMINATION OF THE HONORABLE DEBRA HAALAND 
                    TO BE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR

                               ----------                              

                        FEBRUARY 23 and 24, 2021

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                       Printed for the use of the
               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
               
      Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov               
                              __________

                                
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
43-821                        WASHINGTON : 2023                    
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                
 
               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon                    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington           JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico          STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine            JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado       CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
                                     ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas

                      Renae Black, Staff Director
                      Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
             Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
              Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
                            
                            
                          C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

     FEBRUARY 23, 2021, 9:34 A.M. and FEBRUARY 24, 2021, 10:07 A.M.
                           
                           
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West 
  Virginia 


Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from 
  Wyoming........................................................     2
Heinrich, Hon. Martin, a U.S. Senator from New Mexico............     4

                               WITNESSES

Young, Hon. Don, a U.S. Representative from Alaska...............     5
Haaland, Hon. Debra, Nominated to be Secretary of the Interior...     7

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Ak-Chin Indian Community:
    Letter for the Record........................................    54
Alabama-Coushatta Tribe of Texas:
    Letter for the Record........................................   269
Alatna Tribal Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   271
Alaska Oil & Gas Association et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   101
Alaska Petroleum Joint Crafts Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   104
Alliance of Colonial Era Tribes:
    Letter for the Record........................................   273
American Clean Power Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   276
ANCSA Regional Association and Alaska Native Village Corporation 
  Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   107
Arizona Indigenous Peoples Caucus of the Arizona State 
  Legislature:
    Letter for the Record........................................   277
Asa'carsarmiut Tribal Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   279
Association of Community/Tribal Schools:
    Letter for the Record........................................   281
Association of Village Council Presidents:
    Letter for the Record........................................   282
Backcountry Sled Patriots:
    Letter for the Record........................................   284
Barrasso, Hon. John:
    Opening Statement............................................     2
    Chart entitled ``Deb Haaland: In Her Own Words''.............    84
Beaver Village Council:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   285
Billings Gazette Editorial Board:
    Gazette opinion: Give Haaland a fair hearing, dated 2/21/2021   286
Black Mesa Residents of the Navajo Nation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   289
BlueGreen Alliance:
    Letter for the Record........................................   292
Branch, Ethel Billie:
    azcentral op-ed entitled ``If Deb Haaland Is Confirmed as 
      Interior Secretary, It Would Be a Huge Win for Arizona'' 
      dated 2/22/2021............................................   294
Brown, Hon. Kate:
    Letter for the Record........................................   299
Calvert, Mary F. and Romano, Andrew:
    yahoo!news article entitled ``Toxic Legacy of Uranium Mines 
      on Navajo Nation Confronts Interior Nominee Deb Haaland'' 
      dated 2/23/2021............................................   436
Cantwell, Hon. Maria et al.:
    Letter for the Record addressed to the President, dated 5/23/
      2018.......................................................   123
Chamber of Commerce of the United States of America:
    Letter for the Record........................................   301
Chevak Traditional Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   302
Chickahominy Indians Eastern Division et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   304
Chilcott, Hon. Greg:
    Letter for the Record........................................   305
Chitina Tribal Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   306
Citizens for Balanced Use:
    Letter for the Record........................................   308
Coalition for American Heritage et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   309
Coalition of Large Tribes:
    Resolution No. 21-02-MNF, dated 2/19/21......................    56
(The) Corps Network:
    Letter for the Record........................................   310
Daines, Hon. Steve:
    Chart--``May Be Present'' Map for Grizzly Bears..............    23
    Chart--Quote of Rep. Deb Haaland relating to oil and gas 
      leasing, dated 11/19/2020..................................    25
    Chart--Various quotes of Rep. Deb Haaland from 2018 and 2020.    27
    Chart--Quote of Rep. Deb Haaland relating to jobs and 
      transition to renewable energy, dated 10/8/2020............    29
    Chart--Quote of Rep. Deb Haaland relating to trapping on 
      public lands, dated 7/5/2019...............................    91
    Chart--BLM & USFWS Hunting Access............................    93
    Chart--Bills co-sponsored by Rep. Deb Haaland in 2019 and 
      2020.......................................................    95
    Map of Stonewall Vegetation Project Decision--Fire History 
      and Park Creek and Arrastra Creek Fires, dated 7/25/2017...   135
Day, Maggie:
    Letter for the Record........................................   312
Den Adel, Sean:
    Letter for the Record........................................   268
Eastern Shoshone Nation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   313
Edwards, Hon. John Bel:
    Letter for the Record........................................   117
Eight Northern Indian Pueblos Council, Inc.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   315
Fadely, William:
    Letters and Documents for the Record.........................   318
Fielder, Hon. Paul C.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   368
Flanagan, Hon. Peggy:
    Letter for the Record........................................   370
Flathead County (MT) Board of Commissioners:
    Letter for the Record........................................   372
Fort Belknap Indian Community:
    Letter for the Record........................................   374
    Resolution No. 10-2021, dated 1/28/21........................   377
Fort McDowell Yavapai Nation:
    Letter for the Record........................................    59
Fort Sill Apache Tribe:
    Letter for the Record........................................   379
Gwichyaa Zhee Gwich'in Tribal Government:
    Letter for the Record........................................   382
Haaland, Hon. Debra:
    Opening Statement............................................     7
    Written Testimony............................................    10
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................   142
Healy Lake Village Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   383
Heinrich, Hon. Martin:
    Introduction.................................................     4
Hopi Tribe:
    Letter for the Record........................................    61
Hualapai Tribe:
    Letter for the Record........................................   388
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers:
    Letter for the Record........................................   391
International Inbound Travel Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   393
Intertribal Agriculture Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   394
Inter Tribal Association of Arizona:
    Letter for the Record........................................    63
Kalispel Tribe of Indians:
    Letter for the Record........................................   396
Kline, Jr., Kyle R. ``Chip'':
    Statement for the Record.....................................   119
Kuskokwim River Inter-Tribal Fish Commission:
    Letter for the Record........................................   398
Lankford, Hon. James:
    Map entitled ``Drilling Unit with both BLM Surface (USACE) 
      and minerals, as well as BIA surface and minerals''........    37
Latinos in Heritage Conservation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   400
Lincoln County (MT) Board of County Commissioners:
    Letter for the Record........................................   402
Little Shell Tribe of Chippewa Indians:
    Letter for the Record........................................   403
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
    Opening Statement 

Mandan, Hidatsa & Arikara Nation:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   111
Mineral County (MT) Board of Commissioners:
    Letter for the Record........................................   405
Montana Wilderness Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   406
Montana Residents:
    Collected statements of some Montana residents for the Record   407
Muckleshoot Indian Tribe:
    Letter for the Record........................................   413
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
    Map of Federal Lands and Indian Reservations of Alaska.......    99
National Congress of American Indians:
    Letter for the Record........................................   415
National Recreation and Park Association:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   417
National Tribal Leaders:
    Letter for the Record........................................    65
National Trust for Historic Preservation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   418
Native CDFI Network:
    Letter for the Record........................................   419
Native Peoples Action and Native Peoples Action Community Fund:
    Letter for the Record........................................   421
Native Village of Brevig Mission Tribal Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   423
Native Village of Diomede:
    Letter for the Record........................................   425
Native Village of Eyak Traditional Tribal Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   427
Native Village of Ruby:
    Letter for the Record........................................   429
Native Village of St. Michael Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   431
Navajo Agricultural Products Industry:
    Letter for the Record........................................   433
(The) Navajo Nation:
    Letter for the Record addressed to Senator Kelly.............    73
    Letter for the Record addressed to Senators Murkowski and 
      Manchin....................................................   435
NCDP Native American Caucus:
    Letter for the Record........................................   478
Nisqually Indian Tribe:
    Letter for the Record........................................   480
North Dakota Dem-NPL Native American Caucus:
    Letter for the Record........................................   482
Northern Arapaho Business Council:
    Letter for the Record addressed to Senator Barrasso, dated 2/
      19/2021....................................................   485
    Letter for the Record addressed to Acting Secretary de la 
      Vega, dated 2/22/2021......................................    81
    Letter for the Record addressed to the Northern Arapaho 
      People, dated 2/26/21......................................   487
Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission:
    Letter for the Record........................................   488
Northwest Portland Area Indian Health Board:
    Letter for the Record........................................   490
Northwest Sportfishing Industry Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   492
Office of Hawaiian Affairs (State of Hawaii) Board of Trustees 
  and Administration:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   493
Oglala Sioux Tribe:
    Letter for the Record........................................   496
    Resolution No. 21-38, dated 2/4/21...........................   499
O'Neal-Smith, Kevin:
    Letter for the Record........................................   502
Organized Village of Kwethluk:
    Letter for the Record........................................   503
Organized Village of Saxman, Saxman I.R.A. Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   505
Outdoor Industry Association et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   507
Paimiut Traditional Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   509
Pueblo of Jemez:
    Letter for the Record........................................   511
Pueblo of Sandia:
    Letter for the Record........................................   514
Quinault Indian Nation Business Committee:
    Resolution No. 21-30-98, dated 1/25/21.......................   516
REI Co-op:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   518
Rendon, Hon. Anthony:
    Letter for the Record........................................   520
Robbins, Mark:
    Letter for the Record........................................   522
Rosebud Sioux Tribe:
    Resolution No. 2021-30, dated 2/24/21........................   523
Rural Montana Foundation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   525
Sablan, Hon. Gregorio Kilili Camacho:
    Letter for the Record........................................   526
Salzmann, Michael:
    Letter for the Record........................................   527
Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux Community:
    Letter for the Record........................................   528
Snoqualmie Indian Tribe:
    Letter for the Record........................................   529
Soboba Band of Luiseno Indians:
    Letter for the Record........................................   530
Solar Energy Industries Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   532
Southern California Tribal Chairmen's Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   534
Stauber, Hon. Pete et al.
    Letter for the Record........................................   385
Stillaguamish Tribe of Indians:
    Letter for the Record........................................   536
Student Conservation Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   538
Suquamish Tribe:
    Letter for the Record........................................   539
Tanana Chiefs Conference:
    Letter for the Record........................................   541
Tanana Tribal Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   543
Tohono O'odham Nation:
    Letter for the Record........................................    74
Tribal Alliance of Sovereign Indian Nations:
    Letter for the Record........................................   545
Tribal Women for Indigenous Nations:
    Letter for the Record........................................   547
U.S. Travel Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   549
Valdez Native Tribe Board of Directors:
    Letter for the Record........................................   551
Valley County (MT) Board of County Commissioners:
    Letter for the Record........................................   553
Women Empowering Women for Indigenous Nations:
    Letter for the Record........................................   554
Wrangell Cooperative Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   555
Yankton Sioux Tribe:
    Letter for the Record........................................   557
Young, Hon. Don:
    Introduction.................................................     5

 
                           HAALAND NOMINATION
                                 DAY 1                          
                                 
                              ----------                              


                       TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:34 a.m. in Room 
SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin III, 
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA

    The Chairman. The Committee meets today to consider the 
nomination of Representative Debra Haaland to be the Secretary 
of the Interior. It is so good to see her here, and she has the 
Honorable Don Young with her, a dear friend of all of us for 
many, many years. We want to welcome her to the Committee, and 
to thank her for being here this morning and for her 
willingness to serve in this important position.
    Before we proceed with the nomination, I would also like to 
welcome four new members to the Committee. Although this is not 
the Committee's first hearing this Congress, it is the first 
one since the Senate appointed our new members to the 
Committee. On the Democratic side, we are pleased to welcome 
Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona and Senator John Hickenlooper of 
Colorado. On the Republican side, we are very pleased to 
welcome Senator James Lankford from Oklahoma and Senator Roger 
Marshall from Kansas. The Committee on Energy and Natural 
Resources has a long, distinguished history of producing 
bipartisan legislation to ensure our energy security and the 
wise stewardship of our natural resources. We look forward to 
working with all four of our new members in carrying on this 
tradition in the most bipartisan, cooperative way.
    Nearly 130 years ago, the Supreme Court described the 
Secretary of the Interior as the guardian of the people of the 
United States over the public lands. But the Court's 
description barely scratches the surface of the broad scope of 
the Secretary's responsibilities. The Secretary is responsible 
for managing more than 480 million surface acres, nearly one-
fifth the land area of the United States, 700 million acres of 
subsurface minerals, and 2.5 billion acres of the Outer 
Continental Shelf. These lands include over 400 national parks, 
over 100 national monuments, and over 500 national wildlife 
refuges, along with nearly 500 dams and over 300 reservoirs 
that supply water to 31 million people and irrigate 10 million 
acres of farmland. In addition, the lands managed by the 
Secretary produce nearly 20 percent of the nation's energy that 
is critical for our energy independence, including 12 percent 
of our natural gas, 24 percent of our oil, 43 percent of our 
coal, half of our geothermal energy, and much of our wind, 
solar, and hydropower. Those public lands also generate $12 
billion for the Federal Treasury. They support 1.8 million jobs 
and contribute an estimated $315 billion to the U.S. economy.
    The Secretary also maintains government-to-government 
relations with 574 Indian Tribes, holds in trust 56 million 
acres of Indian trust lands, and provides educational services 
to tens of thousands of Native American students in 23 states. 
In addition, the Secretary is responsible for reclaiming 
thousands of abandoned coal mine sites, paying health benefits 
to miners, overseeing one of our nation's premier scientific 
agencies--the U.S. Geological Survey--and protecting thousands 
of endangered and threatened species from extinction. Finally, 
the Secretary oversees 70,000 employees in the Department of 
the Interior and the annual budget of over $21 billion. It 
truly is an enormous and important job, and it is critical that 
the Secretary be ready to take on the management of the 
Department and have a deep understanding of the many issues 
under their purview.
    President Biden, in nominating Representative Haaland for 
this critical role, expressed his confidence that she is up to 
the task, and that she will be a true steward of our national 
parks, our natural resources, and all of our lands. 
Representative Haaland currently represents the First 
Congressional District of New Mexico in the House of 
Representatives. She served as the Vice Chairman of the House 
Committee on Natural Resources and as the Chair of its 
Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests, and Public Lands 
during the last Congress. As a former governor, I have always 
believed that a president should be given wide latitude in the 
selection of his or her cabinet, but I also take the Senate's 
constitutional obligation to advise and consent to the 
President's nomination seriously. Like many of my colleagues, I 
look forward to hearing from Representative Haaland today, and 
getting to know more about her views and the policies and 
programs she will pursue, if confirmed to this important 
position.
    I will now recognize my colleague, Senator Barrasso, to 
make his opening statement.
    Senator Barrasso.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING

    Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 
Today, our Committee is considering the nomination of 
Representative Deb Haaland to serve as Secretary of the 
Interior.
    First, Mr. Chairman, I would like to join you in welcoming 
the four new members of the Committee and I am looking forward 
to their active participation in all our deliberations.
    Since 2019, Congresswoman Haaland has represented New 
Mexico's First Congressional District, which includes most of 
Albuquerque and several surrounding pueblos and suburbs. If 
confirmed, she would be the first Native American Cabinet 
Secretary. For that reason, her nomination is historic and 
deserves to be recognized. At the same time, I am troubled by 
many of Representative Haaland's views, views that many in my 
home State of Wyoming would consider as radical. The Secretary 
of Interior is a critically important job to my home State of 
Wyoming and to the entire West. If confirmed as Secretary of 
Interior, Representative Haaland would lead an agency with more 
than 70,000 employees. These employees manage 20 percent of the 
nation's lands, including our national parks, our national 
monuments, our wildlife refuges, our multiple use lands and the 
entire Outer Continental Shelf. They also serve as managers of 
the largest water supply in the West. The Secretary has a 
responsibility that includes upholding our nation's trust 
responsibilities to 574 federally recognized American Indian 
Tribes and Alaska Natives. The Secretary also has important 
responsibilities related to the U.S. territories and the Freely 
Associated States.
    One of the Secretary's most critical functions is to 
oversee the development of traditional and renewable energy 
supplies on public lands and waters. In Wyoming, we are proud 
to be America's leading producer of coal, uranium, trona, and 
bentonite. Wyoming ranks number one in federal production of 
natural gas and number two in the federal oil production. 
Almost 50 percent of Wyoming's surface area and 69 percent of 
Wyoming's minerals are owned by the Federal Government. The 
collective size of the surface area owned by the Federal 
Government in Wyoming is, Mr. Chairman, larger than the entire 
State of West Virginia.
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. That was for information only.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Young. We'll get Alaska in here in a moment, but go 
ahead.
    The Chairman. I'm in trouble right now.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Barrasso. Energy production on public land creates 
good-paying jobs. It provides tremendous revenue for our state. 
In Wyoming, energy and mineral activity on Department of 
Interior land had a $17.3 billion economic impact for Fiscal 
Year 2019 and supported over 57,000 jobs. For years, the State 
of Wyoming has collected over $1 billion annually in royalties 
and taxes from oil, gas, and coal produced on federal lands 
within our borders. And Wyoming is not the only state that 
benefits from energy production on public lands. In 
Representative Haaland's home State of New Mexico, energy and 
mineral activity on Department of Interior lands contributed 
$21 billion in Fiscal Year 2019. New Mexico has collected, on 
an annual basis, over $1 billion in royalties and taxes from 
oil and gas produced on federal lands within its border.
    We should not undermine America's energy production and we 
should not hurt our own economy. Yet, that is precisely what 
the Biden Administration is doing. By signing an Executive 
Order to ban all new oil, coal, and gas leases on federal 
lands, the President is taking a sledgehammer to western 
states' economies. A ban on federal leasing could result in 
33,000 workers losing their jobs in Wyoming. In Representative 
Haaland's home State of New Mexico, 62,000 workers stand to 
lose their jobs. Our states will also lose hundreds of millions 
of dollars in revenue that is used for essential services, 
including hundreds of millions of dollars in funding of 
K-12 public education. The Biden Administration's moratorium 
robs our children of their vital education funding and the 
Senate agrees. On February 4th, the Senate voted 98-2 for my 
amendment in an effort to restore the hundreds of millions of 
education dollars that will be lost to Biden Administration 
policies.
    In his first month in office, President Biden has declared 
war on American energy. He has crushed jobs and threatened 
vital education funds for our children. Representative 
Haaland's past statements show that she agrees with this 
strategy. In May 2019, Representative Haaland said 
unequivocally, in an interview with the Guardian newspaper, ``I 
am wholeheartedly against fracking and drilling on public 
lands.'' On her campaign website, Representative Haaland said 
we need to ``keep fossil fuels in the ground.'' And then went 
on to say, ``I pledge to vote against all new fossil fuel 
infrastructure.'' Representative Haaland's positions are 
squarely at odds with the mission of the Department of the 
Interior. That mission includes managing our nation's oil, gas, 
and coal resources in a responsible manner, not eliminating 
access to them.
    Now, I am willing to work with Representative Haaland and 
the Biden Administration to conserve our national parks and our 
monuments, to uphold our nation's trust responsibilities, and 
to protect multiple use of our public lands. But if 
Representative Haaland intends to use the Department of the 
Interior to crush the economy of Wyoming and other western 
states, then I am going to oppose the nomination.
    Today's hearing gives us an opportunity to hear directly 
from Congresswoman Haaland and to get more clarity regarding 
her views and vision for the Department of the Interior.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to her testimony.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
    And now, I am going to recognize Senator Heinrich to 
introduce Representative Haaland to our Committee.
    Senator Heinrich.

              STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH, 
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO

    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman, and like our 
colleagues, I want to welcome our new members. It is good to 
see a few more Westerners joining the Committee.
    Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso, it is both my 
pleasure and truly my honor to introduce my colleague from New 
Mexico, my Representative in the House of Representatives, and 
President Biden's nominee for Secretary of Interior, 
Congresswoman Deb Haaland.
    Congresswoman Haaland is a member of the Pueblo of Laguna. 
She is what we like to call a 35th generation New Mexican, and 
as many have noted, if confirmed, she will make history as the 
first ever Native American Cabinet Secretary, something that, 
frankly, should have happened a long, long time ago.
    She grew up in a military family. Her father was a 
decorated marine combat veteran, and her mother is a Navy 
veteran. She grew up like many kids with parents in the 
military, moving frequently and attending 13 different public 
schools over the course of her childhood. Before being elected 
to Congress, she owned her own business, was the chair of the 
board of a tribally-owned business, and she served as the 
Tribal Administrator for the Pueblo of San Felipe. 
Congresswoman Haaland knows firsthand how the decisions that we 
make here in Washington affect communities across the country, 
especially in rural western states. As the Representative of 
the First District of New Mexico, Congresswoman Haaland has 
served as the Vice Chair of the House Committee on Natural 
Resources and the Chair of the Subcommittee on National Parks, 
Forests, and Public Lands. As a Committee leader, she 
demonstrated her commitment to working across party lines. Of 
all the Members of Congress newly elected in 2018, she 
introduced the most bills with bipartisan co-sponsors. I have 
no doubt that Congresswoman Haaland's bipartisan experience and 
her leadership will help us restore our nation-to-nation 
relationship to Indian Country, and make conservation and 
outdoor recreation a key part of our national economic 
recovery.
    What we have learned over the last several years is that 
our relationship to our public lands and our loyalty to 
America's special places have the ability to unite us all. 
Americans want more equitable access to our public lands, 
environmental justice, solutions for the climate crisis, 
protection of wildlife, clean water, and rural economic 
development. Congresswoman Haaland also understands that 
confronting the climate crisis, not denying it, and 
transforming our economy will not come without costs and 
tradeoffs. That is especially true for fossil fuel workers, 
including many New Mexicans, who have long powered our economy. 
I see Congresswoman Haaland as a true partner for states like 
ours as we diversify our economy, invest in our communities, 
and remain a global leader in producing and exporting energy.
    I am confident Congresswoman Haaland will use the best 
available science to restore our landscapes, open up new 
outdoor recreation opportunities for everyone, put our public 
lands to work in confronting the climate crisis, and help 
Indian Country recover and rebuild from COVID-19. I am eager to 
support her confirmation so she can get to work protecting our 
natural heritage for future generations, and I sincerely hope 
that the other members of this Committee will join me in 
supporting her nomination.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
    Now I am going to introduce Representative Don Young, our 
friend from the other side of the aisle, if you will. I will 
have him introduce Representative Haaland.

                 STATEMENT OF HON. DON YOUNG, 
                U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM ALASKA

    Mr. Young. Thank you, Mr. Chairman Manchin and thank you, 
Mr. Barrasso, the Ranking Member and all other members of the 
Committee. You may be wondering why I'm doing this. I'm here 
because Debbie and I became friends when she was the Chairman 
of the Lands Committee and I was the Ranking Member on it and I 
have had her reach across and talk to me about issues that 
affect Alaska and other areas. But I will tell you, if you 
don't know, I'm going to give you a little history on the 
House. I'm the oldest Member of both bodies. I have served with 
10 Presidents and 15 Secretaries of Interior. There's not much 
I don't and have not seen.
    I have a theory, because I'm a mariner, that a captain of 
the ship has a right to choose who he has as his crew. I have 
not always agreed with the Secretaries of Interior, but I will 
say that that's the responsibility of the President. President 
Biden has chosen Deb, and she has accepted, and I would suggest 
respectfully you'll find out that she will listen to you. She 
may not change--like she and I do not agree on carbon fuels. 
You know that. We've said this before. But it's my job to try 
to convince her that she's not all right and her job is to 
convince me I'm not all right. That's the important part about 
the Secretary. Also, we keep in mind that another reason I'm 
supporting her--she is an American Indian. I am quite proud of 
that fact--Alaska Natives and American Indians, and like you 
mentioned, it's long overdue, there should have been a 
Secretary of Interior long before. We were fortunate to have 
Morris Thompson, a friend of mine, as a BIA Director and we had 
Tara Sweeney as a BIA Director, but always the BIA has been 
under the--I call it under the top of the Park Service and all 
their other agencies, under the Department of the Interior, 
they were actually forgotten. And I think Deb will bring a new 
role to this because she has an interest--of course, she is one 
and she'll be able to take and raise the American Indian, the 
first Americans to the position, I think, they can be and have 
achieved in the State of Alaska. For that, I'm very proud of 
it.
    You know, and I talked--I heard her introduced by the other 
members and some of the things she's done, but she worked with 
me. She is across the aisle. We introduced the Indian Buffalo 
Management Act, passed; the PROGRESS Act, passed; the Missing 
and Murdered Indigenous Women BADGES Act, passed. This is 
bipartisan. So she's been able to do that. And I would suggest 
respectfully that her belonging to a pueblo or her working with 
her native people will be beneficial to the Secretary of 
Interior.
    As the Ranking Member mentioned, a lot of responsibility, 
huge amounts of land, lands that a lot of people don't 
recognize, and accessibility is crucial to me as far as 
America. We've had previous Secretaries of Interior that really 
disallowed access and I'm saying that's inappropriate. I want 
her to be able to consider the fact that there are many 
accesses to these lands that are ``don't just take pictures.'' 
And I'm going to talk about--I love to hunt and everybody says, 
well, that's terrible. It's not. It's the management of game. 
And I want her to understand a lot of these lands that we're 
prohibitive of might be accessible for management of fish and 
wildlife.
    I will say I think she is a friend and as a member of this, 
I say, Administration, she'll do a good job. She'll work for us 
and she'll reach across the aisle. I have a lot, by the way, at 
stake here. I'm an oil producing state too and we lost a lot of 
jobs, not because of Deb, we lost them because of the President 
signing an Executive Order, really a hardship on us. We're 
trying to explain. If we have people in the Department of the 
Interior such as Deb, maybe there will be a balance. And 
anybody who thinks you're going to cut off fossil fuel 
immediately is smoking pot--that's legal in the State of 
Alaska, by the way.
    But I'm just saying, they're not realizing, you know, only 
19 percent of a barrel of oil is used for propulsion. The rest 
of it, if you look around this room, including that rug, all 
kinds of different uses. Coal and oil molecules are the biggest 
structure elements we have in our society today. And I know 
this is being done because of climate change, I recognize that. 
But that won't solve the problem. If we're going to do this, we 
have to work into it gradually. We'll find out all those 
alternate sources of energy may not be the best in the world, 
like they did in Texas. So I want the Secretary, if she's 
confirmed--I hope you do confirm her--understand there's a 
broad picture here. And her job is, and understand this, no 
longer a little cartoon. This is the big picture and she'll 
have to have the responsibility to do the job I know she can 
do. And I urge a confirmation of Deb for the Secretary of 
Interior.
    And thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Congressman, and you are more than 
welcome to stay, if you would like to. If not, we understand 
you probably have a pressing schedule.
    Mr. Young. You're through with me.
    [Laughter.]
    Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    The rules of the Committee, which apply to all nominees, 
require that they be sworn-in in connection with their 
testimony.
    So if you would rise and raise your right hand, 
Congresswoman.
    Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to 
give to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
    Ms. Haaland. Absolutely, Chairman.
    The Chairman. You may be seated.
    I am going to ask you three questions addressed to each 
nominee before this Committee.
    Will you be available to appear before the Committee and 
other Congressional committees to represent Department 
positions and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
    Ms. Haaland. Yes, Chairman.
    The Chairman. Are you aware of any personal holdings, 
investments, or interests that could constitute a conflict of 
interest or create the appearance of such a conflict should you 
be confirmed and assume the office to which you have been 
nominated by the President?
    Ms. Haaland. No, Chairman.
    The Chairman. Are you involved in or do you have any assets 
held in a blind trust?
    Ms. Haaland. No, sir.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    You go ahead and make your opening statement, then we will 
move to the questions.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you.

 STATEMENT OF HON. DEBRA HAALAND, NOMINATED TO BE SECRETARY OF 
                          THE INTERIOR

    Ms. Haaland. [Greeting in native language.]
    Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso, members of the 
Committee, thank you so much for having me here today. I 
wouldn't be here without the love and support of my child, 
Somah; my partner, Skip, who is with me this morning, sitting 
behind me; my mom, Mary Toya, who is watching from Isleta 
Pueblo; my extended family; and generations of ancestors who 
have sacrificed so much so I could be here today. I acknowledge 
that we are on the ancestral homelands of the Nacotchtank, 
Anacostan, and Piscataway people.
    As many of you know, my story is unique. Although today I 
serve as a Member of Congress and was the Vice Chair of the 
House Natural Resources Committee, if confirmed, I would be the 
first Native American to serve as Cabinet Secretary. The 
historic nature of my confirmation is not lost on me, but I 
will say, it's not about me. Rather, I hope this nomination 
would be an inspiration for Americans, moving forward together 
as one nation and creating opportunities for all of us. As the 
daughter of a Pueblo woman, I was taught to value hard work. My 
mother is a Navy veteran, was a civil servant at the Bureau of 
Indian Education for 25 years, and she raised four kids as a 
military wife. My dad, the grandson of immigrants, was a 30-
year career Marine who served in Vietnam. He received the 
Silver Star and is buried at Arlington National Cemetery. I 
spent summers in Mesita, our small village on Laguna Pueblo, 
the location of my grandparents' traditional home. It was there 
that I learned about my culture from my grandmother by watching 
her cook and by participating in traditional feast days and 
ceremonies. It was in the cornfields with my grandfather where 
I learned the importance of water and protecting our resources 
and where I gained a deep respect for the Earth.
    As a military family, we moved every few years when I was a 
kid, but no matter where we lived, my dad taught me and my 
siblings to appreciate nature, whether on a mountain trail, or 
walking along the beach. I'm not a stranger to the struggles 
many families across America face today. I have lived most of 
my adult life 
paycheck-to-paycheck. I pieced together healthcare for me and 
my child as a single mom and at times relied on food stamps to 
put food on the table. It's because of these struggles that I 
fully understand the role Interior must play in the President's 
plan to Build Back Better, to responsibly manage our natural 
resources to protect them for future generations so that we can 
continue to work, live, hunt, fish, and pray among them.
    I understand how important the Department is for all the 
stakeholders who rely on it and the communities whose economies 
are connected to it. I know the bipartisan accomplishments of 
this Committee stand out in Congress. Your work led to Interior 
having significant resources and authorities, especially with 
the Great American Outdoors Act and the Public Lands package. I 
will work collaboratively with all members of this Committee to 
ensure these Acts are implemented well. As Chair of the 
Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests, and Public Lands, I 
also worked on these issues in Congress and listened to all of 
my colleagues and constituents about ways to improve management 
of the Department. I am proud of the bipartisan manner in which 
we moved these bills through my subcommittee and to the House 
Floor.
    As I have learned in this role, there is no question that 
fossil energy does and will continue to play a major role in 
America for years to come. I know how important oil and gas 
revenues are to critical services, but we must also recognize 
that the energy industry is innovating and our climate 
challenge must be addressed. Together we can work to position 
our nation and all of its people for success in the future, and 
I am committed to working cooperatively with all stakeholders 
and all of Congress to strike the right balance going forward. 
As part of this balance, the Department has a role in 
harnessing the clean energy potential of our public lands and 
to create jobs and new economic opportunities. The President's 
agenda demonstrates that America's public lands can and should 
be engines for clean energy production. President Biden also 
knows that restoring and conserving our lands through a 
Civilian Climate Corps has the potential to spur job creation.
    If confirmed, I will work my heart out for everyone--the 
families of fossil fuel workers who helped build our country, 
ranchers and farmers who care deeply for their lands, 
communities with legacies of toxic pollution, people of color 
whose stories deserve to be heard, and those who want jobs of 
the future. I vow to lead the Interior Department ethically and 
with honor and integrity. I will listen to and work with 
Members of Congress on both sides of the aisle. I will support 
Interior's public servants and be a careful steward of taxpayer 
dollars. I will ensure that the Interior Department's decisions 
are based on science. I will honor the sovereignty of the 
Tribal Nations and recognize their part in America's story. And 
I'll be a fierce advocate for our public lands.
    I believe we all have a stake in the future of our country 
and I believe that every one of us--Republicans, Democrats and 
Independents--shares a common bond, our love for the outdoors 
and a desire and obligation to keep our nation livable for 
future generations. I carry my life experiences with me 
everywhere I go. It is those experiences that give me hope for 
the future. If an indigenous woman from humble beginnings can 
be confirmed as Secretary of the Interior, our country holds 
promise for everyone.
    Finally, I want to give special thanks to you, Chairman 
Manchin, for calling this hearing today and for sharing with me 
the issues and needs of the people that you represent in West 
Virginia. If confirmed, I will listen to all of the people 
represented by members of this Committee and this Congress. I 
am grateful for your time today and I am ready to serve. And 
thank you, Senator Heinrich, for your kind introduction. I look 
forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Haaland follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    The Chairman. Thank you, Congresswoman Haaland.
    And now we will begin our questions.
    Congresswoman, the United States became a net total energy 
exporter in 2019. It is the first time in 67 years we have been 
in that position, partly due to the surge in domestic oil and 
gas production. In your opening statement, you noted that 
fossil energy does and will continue to play a major role in 
America for years to come. So my question would be, do you 
believe that it is in our best interest to maintain our energy 
independence, and what role do you see fossil energy playing in 
that?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Chairman, for that question.
    And yes, of course, we absolutely need energy independence 
and I believe President Biden agrees with that statement as 
well. I know that we want to move forward with some clean 
energy. We want to get to net zero and as the Chairwoman of the 
Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests, and Public Lands, yes, 
25 percent of our carbon comes from our public lands. So I 
think that as we move forward with the technology that you and 
I spoke about when we had our conversation, we want to move 
forward with innovation and all of this for our energy needs.
    So, I think, that is not going to happen overnight. And so, 
we will absolutely rely on the fossil energy that you and the 
Ranking Member spoke about in your opening statements, but at 
the same time, I think we can move forward with the technology 
and innovation as well.
    The Chairman. Yes, well I think you pretty much know my 
position on that. Basically, I am totally committed to 
innovation, not elimination, because I think we can do it in a 
practical, responsible way.
    I said in my opening statement that the Department of the 
Interior is a massive, massive agency, and you have just heard 
the responsibilities that come with being head of that agency. 
So if you are focusing on the big picture, what are your top 
priorities that you see might need to be changed, or that you 
would like to have for your leadership?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator. Thank you, Chairman.
    Well, of course, I feel, as I mentioned in my opening 
statement, my mom was a federal employee for 25 years. I value 
the dedication of our career employees and I believe very 
strongly that we need to make sure that we are appreciating 
them the way they should be appreciated so they can do their 
jobs. I want very much to help make sure that everyone's 
working together.
    With respect to clean energy, yes, that's absolutely a 
priority of President Biden, his Build Back Better plan to 
create those clean energy jobs across the country. The Civilian 
Climate Corps that I know will engage tens of thousands of 
Americans in the work of restoring our public lands is also 
important. And I will say, with respect to Indian Country, I 
worked very hard in Congress in my first term on broadband 
internet. And I think that during this pandemic we have seen 
the disparities that a lot of communities face as that has 
unfolded. Broadband internet service and, of course, I will say 
with respect to Indian Country, missing and murdered indigenous 
women--I am grateful for the help of Senators on this side of 
the Capitol who have helped me move that issue forward. I think 
we have--with two bills passing, that's the tip of the iceberg.
    The Chairman. Since 1977, coal companies--and I am very 
familiar with coal country and coal companies that work in 
those areas--have paid a fee for every ton of coal they have 
mined to fund the Abandoned Mine Land Reclamation Program. We 
call it the AML program. If confirmed, you will oversee the 
agency that administers the AML program, the Office of Surface 
Mining Reclamation and Enforcement, which we call OSMRE. 
Hardrock mining has not had any changes in their law since 
1872. They do not adhere to the same restrictions that we do. 
We have talked about making those changes that are most 
responsible and most needed. We are not hindering any company 
whatsoever, except we have an awful lot of hardrock mining that 
has gone unclaimed and unrestored that could be put back in 
productive use.
    I just want to know, if confirmed as Secretary, do you 
intend to continue supporting the extension of the fee 
collection authority under the Surface Mining Control and 
Reclamation Act (SMCRA)? That is the AML money that a lot of 
people want to eliminate, and I think it would be detrimental 
to our environment. And, do you support extending those fees 
for an additional 15 years? That is what we are talking about 
to take care of all the abandoned mines. And, would you be 
receptive to looking at hardrock mining, to make sure they come 
into compliance to take care of their responsibilities?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Chairman.
    And yes, I'm very familiar with abandoned mines and we have 
a lot of them in New Mexico, particularly on the Navajo Nation 
and we've seen that it's polluted water. And so I agree 
wholeheartedly that we need the resources to make sure we're 
protecting the health and safety of our fellow Americans. And 
so I look forward to working with you on this issue and I just, 
yes, I think that if we have the resources to clean those 
things up, that it will make life easier for everybody.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    I have many more questions, but my time is up, and I am 
going to go now to my friend, Senator Barrasso.
    Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks so much, Senator Manchin.
    I would just like to follow up on some of the things that 
Senator Manchin started with. Yes or no answers on this, if you 
could.
    As a general matter, should the Federal Government continue 
to permit oil and gas wells in this country?
    Ms. Haaland. Yes, and I believe that is happening.
    Senator Barrasso. Good.
    And as a general matter, should the Federal Government 
continue to permit coal mines in this country?
    Ms. Haaland. Yes, since, Ranking Member, if I could just 
say I know that coal mines were not a part of President Biden's 
Executive Order.
    Senator Barrasso. As a general matter, should the Federal 
Government continue to permit copper, lithium, and other 
hardrock mines in this country? Senator Manchin was just asking 
about some hardrock mining issues.
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I believe that if we do these things 
in a responsible manner and protect the health and safety of 
workers, I see us moving forward. The Earth is here to provide 
for us and that is my belief.
    Senator Barrasso. As a general matter, should the Federal 
Government continue to permit natural gas pipelines in this 
country?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, as I mentioned in my opening 
statement, I believe this will go on for quite some time and I 
know that President Biden has put a pause on new leases, not 
existing ones.
    Senator Barrasso. The question was on pipelines. So as a 
general matter, should the Federal Government continue to 
permit oil pipelines in the country?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, with respect to the Department of the 
Interior, wherever pipelines fall under the authority of the 
Department of Interior, of course----
    Senator Barrasso. As a general matter, should the Federal 
Government continue to permit electrical transmission lines in 
this country?
    Ms. Haaland. I believe that that would help our energy 
needs, sir.
    Senator Barrasso. And as a general matter, should the 
Federal Government continue to permit natural gas or nuclear 
power plants in the country?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I assume that--what I would like to 
say is, if I'm confirmed as Secretary, of course I would follow 
the law on all of these things.
    Senator Barrasso. Yes, I think one of the concerns that we 
have is that--there are three Senators on this Committee who 
are medical doctors. We have Dr. Cassidy, who is a 
gastroenterologist. Dr. Marshall is an obstetrician. I am an 
orthopedic surgeon. And just a couple of months ago you 
tweeted, ``Republicans don't believe in science.'' A pretty 
broad statement that you made there and this was in October 
2020, so not too long ago. Now we are also Republicans. Do you 
think that as medical doctors we don't believe in science? I 
mean, how do you stand by this statement?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I--yes, if you're a doctor, I would 
assume that you believe in science.
    Senator Barrasso. We are Republicans as well. So, I mean, 
it is concerning to those of us who have gone through training, 
believe in science and yet, for a broad brush to say that we 
are all disbelievers, you know, it is a concern to those of us 
as we are here today to ask questions.
    So, you know, in his first few weeks in office, President 
Biden issued several orders, as we talked about--banning new 
oil and natural gas leasing on federal lands and waters. It is 
estimated this long-term leasing ban is going to cost your home 
State of New Mexico 62,000 jobs and my home State of Wyoming 
33,000 jobs. A long-term leasing ban is also going to cost--and 
I can kind of go around the table here of members on this 
Committee--Louisiana, 48,000 jobs; Colorado, 18,000 jobs; 
Mississippi, 14,000 jobs; North Dakota, 13,000 jobs; Utah, 
11,000 jobs; 7,000 jobs in Alaska and Montana. Those are just 
jobs represented by people on this Committee.
    Now, you had said you will work your heart out for 
everyone, including fossil fuel workers. My question is for 
you, why not just let these workers keep their jobs?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, it is my understanding that President 
Biden has put just a pause on new leases. He didn't ban new 
leases. He didn't put a moratorium on new leases. It is a pause 
to review the federal fossil fuel program. And so, I know that 
there are still thousands of leases and thousands of permits 
that are moving forward and----
    Senator Barrasso. And if confirmed, would you tell the 
President that it is unwise to continue the pause as a 
permanent ban?
    Ms. Haaland. I don't believe that it is a permanent ban, 
Senator. I am more than happy to work with you and to work 
with, of course, at the pleasure of the President and along 
with, if I'm confirmed, my colleagues, to make sure that we are 
doing everything we can to create jobs for Americans.
    Senator Barrasso. President Biden has justified his ban on 
new oil and gas leasing on federal lands and waters--he cited 
climate change. Are you aware of any evidence that suggests 
that a ban on oil and gas leasing on federal lands and waters 
was going to reduce the world's total production of oil and 
gas?
    Ms. Haaland. I bet--no, sir.
    Senator Barrasso. And are we aware of any evidence that 
suggests that a ban on oil and gas leasing on federal lands and 
waters is going to reduce the world's total consumption of oil 
and gas?
    Ms. Haaland. Ranking Member, I haven't actually looked at 
all of these statistics, but I believe that it's a situation 
where everyone should work together.
    Senator Barrasso. Yes, because it seems that the 
President's ban on oil and gas leasing is not going to reduce 
the world's production or consumption of oil and gas. So I 
would just return to the question of why wouldn't we let these 
Americans keep their jobs because we are not seeing any other 
country that has banned energy production because of climate 
change. Russia has not done it--Saudi Arabia, Iran, India, 
China. So I continue to believe it is a misguided decision by 
the President.
    Thanks so much, and I have questions for a second round, 
Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Senator Cantwell.
    Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Congresswoman Haaland, congratulations on your historic 
nomination, and I so appreciate your leadership in the House. I 
tell you, you had one of the greatest moments, I think, for the 
State of Washington, when you led the final passage of the 
Spokane Settlement bill, to see a Native American woman 
standing there on the House Floor, helping us get something 
passed that took such a long time, and, I would venture to say 
that, if you had been Interior Secretary during that time 
period, we might have actually gotten this done sooner. So mark 
me down as one who very much appreciates the fact that the 
Secretary of Interior being Native American will give us an 
extra advantage on BIA issues that are so important to Indian 
Country overall. So thank you for that.
    I am so glad you mentioned the Great American Outdoors Act. 
I almost feel like your nomination is this proxy fight about 
the future of fossil fuels. You have already stated very 
clearly here that you are going to carry out President Biden's 
agenda. We very much appreciate the fact that you are doing 
that, and that is what, I think, a President deserves in his 
nominee.
    I think, with the Great American Outdoors Act, we saw the 
value of public lands. In fact, we saw how the value of 
creating more outdoor recreation helped a juggernaut of an 
industry now become the third largest employer, just behind 
finance and healthcare, in the United States of America. So I 
hope that our colleagues will think about our bipartisan 
success there, and how much those public lands mean to us from 
an economic revenue perspective.
    One of the things I wanted to ask you about, obviously on 
the coal leasing front, is that under Secretary Jewell and the 
Obama Administration, we were trying to get accurate 
assessments of the value of federal leasing of coal revenues. 
When I was Ranking Member, we pushed for this because, 
obviously, we have a lot of coal trains that go right through 
the State of Washington. The impacts of that accurate coal 
price matter because of mining in places like the Powder River 
Basin, which accounts for 40 percent of the nation's annual 
supply, and impacts communities all across our country. I want 
to make sure--because the Trump Administration overturned that 
assessment--I want to make sure that, despite that decision, 
you are going to work to make sure that there is a fair value 
for the taxpayer on the price of coal leasing, and the economic 
and climate impacts that it has.
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, our public lands belong to all of us 
and taxpayers deserve to have a fair return. So I look forward 
to having more conversations about this and appreciate you 
raising this issue with me.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    On the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, I wanted to make 
sure that you are committed to using a science-based approach 
when it comes to protecting the arctic wildlife. I am glad that 
the President has taken action to stop leasing, but what can 
you tell me about your efforts to promote a science-based 
approach to protecting the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge?
    Ms. Haaland. I can promise you that, if I'm confirmed as 
Secretary, that we will be guided by science in all of those 
decisions.
    Senator Cantwell. On the issue of wildfires, which is a big 
Pacific Northwest issue, the Department of the Interior has key 
tools that we have now given to it in the last big fire 
package, which we were able to work on together. This is new 
technology for everything from forecasting, to locating 
firefighters, to implementing coordination with air support. 
Will you commit to continue to work to rapidly implement those 
provisions of the most recent legislation on fighting fire?
    Ms. Haaland. I believe very strongly, Senator, that 
technology can play an incredibly helpful role in detecting 
fires and yes, I appreciate you caring about that issue as 
well.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    Lastly, we were successful, with Chairwoman Murkowski, in 
passing the Yakima Basin Water Strategy bill, which is really 
about helping the Pacific Northwest come up with better 
strategies for farming, for fishing, and for environmental 
issues. I hope you will continue to work with us on the Yakima 
Basin implementation, and moving forward on good water strategy 
for the Northwest.
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, this is our, well, our second 
conversation. I'm sure we'll have many more conversations and I 
will look so forward to hearing more and I think that with 
respect, if I'm confirmed, yes, we need to keep moving issues 
forward for the American people.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, Representative Haaland, for being here and for 
your willingness to serve, if confirmed.
    In 2019, you sent a letter to the Department of the 
Interior, the Department that you have now been nominated to 
lead. And in that letter, you mentioned some concerns that you 
had with decisions regarding national monuments. And as I 
recall, the decisions in particular you were referring to, 
dealing with monuments, were things that you were worried might 
have been influenced by those who graze, mine, or use water on 
federal lands. So I want to ask you a question, just a brief 
yes or no answer will suffice here. Do you think it is 
appropriate for stakeholders--people who have some sort of 
economic interest in the land or some sort of connection to the 
land, like communities where people use those lands for grazing 
and for other purposes, incidental and necessary to their day-
to-day lives--to be involved in the national monument 
designation process? Or were you saying in that letter that you 
think such people should not have a role in it?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I think, with national monument 
designations, of course, it's folks on the ground, 
stakeholders, everyone deserves to have a say in those.
    Senator Lee. Okay.
    Ms. Haaland. We've had some of those come through our 
Committee and I realize it's a long process.
    Senator Lee. I am pleased to hear that you are okay with 
having stakeholders have a say in it because people who live 
close to the land are very much affected by it.
    Now, in Utah, national monuments have become something of a 
political football and they are certainly poised to become even 
more of a political football, one that is tossed back and forth 
between political parties. Now, President Clinton and President 
Obama, respectively, designated some national monuments in 
Utah. President Clinton designated the Grand Staircase-
Escalante National Monument back in 1996 and then 20 years 
later President Obama designated the Bears Ears National 
Monument. President Trump reduced those monuments, consistent 
with the language of the Antiquities Act, requiring that the 
monument extend no further than the space that is necessary to 
be set aside to protect the purposes at issue. Do you think it 
is helpful when monuments end up bouncing back and forth 
between Presidential administrations? Is that a good thing or a 
bad thing for the American people and those who live near and 
are affected by these lands?
    Ms. Haaland. I understand what you're saying, Senator, and 
I know that the Antiquities Act is reserved for the President, 
whoever that may be and not the Secretary of Interior, but I 
will say that, yes, it does appear that those things have gone 
back and forth depending on who's in office.
    Senator Lee. Do you think that this ricochet effect that we 
are talking about could be a result of Presidents making 
monument designations that are not broadly supported by both 
political parties, particularly within the communities most 
immediately affected by them?
    Ms. Haaland. Well, it has been my experience--most of the 
lands bills, most of the legislation that has come out of my 
subcommittee and our committee of natural resources on the 
House side, have been more successful when they've been 
bipartisan.
    Senator Lee. Yes.
    And in this circumstance with national monuments, because 
we have given--some 110 years ago, quite inadvisably in my 
opinion--we have given presidents sweeping authority over this 
area, which eliminates, as they might see it in the moment, the 
need for bipartisan action. And yet, I think, in order to avoid 
the ricochet effect that we are talking about, that we both 
agree is a bad thing, we need to make sure that there is 
widespread local buy-in. We did not have that with Bears Ears 
in 2016. We did not have that with Grand Staircase 20 years 
earlier.
    And I think it is important to point out here, I want to 
make sure you are aware that of the 11.5 million acres of 
national monument designations occurring on land among 40 
states over the last 25 years, 3.25 million of those are in 
Utah. Now that is 28 percent. Some of these monuments are quite 
large. In Utah, the Grand Staircase and the Bears Ears national 
monuments were originally 1.9 million acres and 1.3 million 
acres. Added together, that is larger than two Delawares. Do 
you think monuments of this size accurately reflect and embody 
the charge that Congress provided in the Antiquities Act, to 
the effect that, ``the limits of the parcels shall be confined 
to the smallest area compatible with the proper care and 
management of the objects to be protected.'' Is that usually 
something that in one state will be larger than two Delawares?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I want to say I'm a little jealous 
that you're from Utah and I'm from New Mexico because I know 
you have so much beautiful land there and a lot of history. 
I've been to Bears Ears and the Pueblo Indians ancestral home 
land is there and I realize it covers a very wide space.
    Senator Lee. I appreciate you paying the compliment to my 
state. It is beautiful. It is beautiful. But the monument 
designation does not make them more beautiful. It does tend to 
make the communities that do not support them impoverished and 
that is what concerns me.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate you sharing 
that knowledge with me.
    The Chairman. Senator Sanders.
    Senator Sanders. Can you hear me?
    The Chairman. We got you.
    Senator Sanders. All right.
    I am going to start off by asking you a very broad, but 
important, question. The scientific community is telling us 
that if we do not get our act together and transform our energy 
system away from fossil fuels, there will be irreparable damage 
done to our country and to the world in, really, just a very 
short period of time. Do you agree with that assessment that 
climate change is a major threat to the United States and the 
world?
    Ms. Haaland. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Sanders. Can you give us some ideas as to the role 
that you will be playing in helping us cut carbon emissions and 
create the kinds of jobs that working families in this country 
desperately need?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, thank you so much for the question 
and if I'm confirmed as Secretary, I would be very proud to 
move President Biden's Build Back Better plan forward. That is 
a plan to create millions of jobs in clean energy, yes, the 
Civilian Climate Corps, as I mentioned in my opening statement, 
tens of thousands of jobs, inspiring young folks to restore our 
public lands and, hopefully, find careers in those areas. 
Additionally, we know that, and Senator Manchin mentioned this 
earlier, abandoned mines that need to be taken care of. Those 
are all jobs for Americans. Orphaned gas wells--President 
Biden, I think he added up 250,000 jobs with respect to doing 
just that.
    So I believe there are millions of jobs in a clean energy 
future for Americans and I, if I'm confirmed, I'd be honored to 
help the President move those forward.
    Senator Sanders. Well I am very excited about the concept 
of the Civilian Climate Corps because my experience suggests 
that there are millions of young people who would love the 
opportunity to help transform our energy system and help clean 
up the pollution that currently exists. If they can get the 
training that they need, I think it would be a huge step 
forward for our younger people, and for our economy as a whole. 
So I am excited about the Civilian Climate Corps and if you 
are, in fact, confirmed, I look forward to working with you to 
make that happen.
    Let me switch gear and, Congresswoman, it is no secret that 
you are a proud Native American, and under the Interior 
Department, there is the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Sadly, it is 
no secret that the way our government, from day one, from 
before we became a country, has treated the Native American 
people, has been nothing less than shameful. I have been on 
reservations in this country where the life expectancy is less 
than Third World countries. Can you tell us some of your ideas 
as to how we can improve life for Native American people and 
improve, in fact, the functioning of the Bureau of Indian 
Affairs?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator.
    And first of all, I want to acknowledge the career staff, 
the career employees at Interior and across our government who 
have worked extremely hard over the decades. My mother was one 
of those. I mentioned earlier missing and murdered indigenous 
women, that is a very tragic issue in so many places, including 
my home State of New Mexico. This pandemic, as I've mentioned 
many times, has highlighted the disparities for communities of 
color, and Native communities are among those. I've read 
article after article on the Navajo Nation. People might have 
running water, but it's polluted from the mines.
    So there are so many ways. I think that if we were able to 
get broadband internet to make sure that Native children have 
the educational opportunities and the telehealth opportunities 
for everyone, that that would be an excellent start and----
    Senator Sanders. Congresswoman, if you could, say a word 
about healthcare. My impression is that, at least in various 
parts of the country, the Indian Health Service has not been 
providing the quality or accessibility to healthcare that 
people need. Can you say a word about that one?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator.
    And yes, the Indian Health Service, which I have used many 
times from the time I was a young child--I can't blame the 
employees and the staff who dedicate their lives to caring for 
people. It's the job of the Federal Government to live up to 
the trust responsibility. And again, this pandemic has 
highlighted the disparities in the Indian Health Service. And I 
hope that we'll be able to get to a place where they have the 
resources they need. Currently, there's a hospital that's on 
Acoma Pueblo that we've been dealing with, closing down in the 
middle of a pandemic. These are things that we need to keep an 
eye on. If people, if you don't have your health, you don't 
have anything and everybody deserves to get the healthcare they 
need, when they need it.
    Senator Sanders. Good. I look forward to working with you 
on that issue as well.
    As you know, Congresswoman, right at the end of his term, 
the Trump Administration made a last-minute push to finalize 
the transfer of the Oak Flat Area in Arizona to foreign, 
private mining interests. If confirmed, will you do everything 
within your power to prevent Oak Flat from being sacrificed?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, thank you for caring about that 
issue. I believe that is within the purview of the Forest 
Service. However, if I have an opportunity, I would look 
forward to being briefed on it to make sure that the voices of 
the Tribal Nation are heard with that issue.
    Senator Sanders. Well, thank you very much, and I look 
forward to your confirmation and working with you in the years 
to come.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Daines.
    Senator Daines. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Representative Haaland, welcome to the Committee.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you.
    Senator Daines. I want to jump right into the issue of the 
Endangered Species Act and the question is, when do you believe 
an endangered species has recovered and when it has recovered, 
do you support delisting and returning wildlife management back 
to the state?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, of course, all of those decisions are 
based on science, as they should be, and I appreciate the 
question. I would look forward to, if there are any issues of 
that nature, if I'm confirmed, being briefed on them.
    Senator Daines. So we will get into the science.
    Ms. Haaland. Yes.
    Senator Daines. Do you know what the recovery criteria are 
for the grizzly bear in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem?
    Ms. Haaland. Specifically, no, sir.
    Senator Daines. So the answer is 500 bears. And would you 
happen to know how many bears we currently have in the Greater 
Yellowstone ecosystem?
    Ms. Haaland. I do not.
    Senator Daines. The most conservative estimate is 728, well 
above the recovery target. Many estimates say it is closer to a 
thousand bears. Well above the recovery criteria, well above 
carrying capacity. Yet, on May 7, 2019, you co-sponsored 
legislation that provided federal protections for the grizzly 
bear in perpetuity, forever.
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    Senator Daines. Why would you sponsor a bill like that when 
the science tells us the bear numbers are well above the 
recovery targets?
    Ms. Haaland. I imagine, at the time, I was caring about the 
bears.
    Senator Daines. And why don't you believe the grizzly 
management should return back to the states once the recovery 
targets are met?
    Ms. Haaland. Well, I'm not saying that it shouldn't be 
returned back to the states.
    Senator Daines. But that's what your legislation you co-
sponsored said, is that you would keep it in federal 
protections forever, in perpetuity.
    Ms. Haaland. Well, I would be happy to take a look at the 
issue, Senator, if--and if I can help with that issue, of 
course, I would love to speak with you more about it.
    Senator Daines. Okay.
    On November 19, 2020, you said that if you had it your way, 
and I quote, you'd ``stop oil and gas leasing on public 
lands.''
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    Senator Daines. As Secretary, you will get to have it your 
way. Will you recommend extending the leasing moratorium and 
how do you justify this moratorium with requirements of the 
federal law under the Mineral Leasing Act?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, it's my understanding that it is a 
pause on just new leases, not existing valid leases and if I'm 
confirmed as Secretary, it is President Biden's agenda, not my 
own agenda, that I would be moving forward and I appreciate 
your advice on this issue.
    Senator Daines. Over the last two years, you made numerous 
statements in opposition of energy development including, and I 
quote you, ``no new pipelines,'' in August 2018. You called for 
a ban on fracking in 2020.
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    Senator Daines. Oil and gas development on public lands 
generates huge revenues for local schools and essential 
services. I have one county in Montana for which over 90 
percent of the revenues that go to their schools come from 
pipelines.
    Unfortunately, this is not the case for wind and solar 
development on federal lands. What is your plan to make up for 
any lost local revenue for public safety and children's 
education?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, as I mentioned earlier, if I'm 
confirmed as Secretary, it is President Biden's agenda that I 
would move forward, not my own and I absolutely--nobody wants 
children to not have schools.
    Senator Daines. You earlier said you wanted to let the 
science and the data dictate policy and outcomes, if I could 
somewhat paraphrase what you said. So, I assume you would want 
to make sure you look at the science and the data and not just 
blindly follow any administration.
    Ms. Haaland. Well, I apologize, Senator. Yes, the science 
and the data, I assume it would go without saying because I 
realize that the Department relies on science, but in a broader 
sense----
    Senator Daines. But do you support a ban on fracking and no 
new pipelines?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, President Biden does not support a 
ban on fracking--is my understanding, and it would be his 
agenda that we would follow.
    Senator Daines. Yes, but do you, personally, support a ban 
on fracking and no new pipelines?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, if I could say, if I am confirmed as 
Secretary, I would be serving at the pleasure of the President 
and it would be his agenda that I would move forward.
    Senator Daines. On October 8, 2020, you stated, ``anyone 
who says we have to sacrifice jobs for clean energy is just 
trying to scare us.''
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    Senator Daines. We have a county--Fallon County, where 
Baker, Montana, is--where 60 people have just lost their jobs 
and their benefits, union jobs, directly because of President 
Biden's executive actions. What jobs can they turn to now? What 
do I tell these 60 families that just lost their jobs as a 
result of President Biden's executive action?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I want you to know that I understand 
what that's like. I have struggled, myself, as well and been 
without a job at various times in my life. I will do everything 
I can. As I said, I mean it, I will work my heart out for every 
American. And if we can move President Biden's agenda forward 
together, we can create those millions of jobs and I have every 
faith that that's something that we'll be able to do.
    Senator Daines. Yes, one of the ironies is these executive 
actions actually increase emissions, they don't decrease 
emissions. The Keystone Pipeline was a zero net carbon project 
here by 2030. How do we address the increase in emissions 
caused by President Biden's actions, which we've seen over the 
last month?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I would be happy to be briefed on the 
amount of emissions and, if I'm confirmed, absolutely work with 
you.
    Senator Daines. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, I am out of time. I must tell you, I am just 
concerned about proceeding with this nomination. The track 
record and the ideology in the past, I think, will perpetuate 
more divisiveness and will certainly harm Montana's economy and 
that is why I have some concerns, but Mr. Chairman, thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Wyden.
    Senator Wyden. Thank you very much, Senator Manchin, and I 
want to welcome the nominee, and I especially appreciate the 
fact that Congressman Young introduced you, Congresswoman. He 
has been a model for trying to work with people on both sides 
of the aisle. I am going to get into that question of 
bipartisan collaboration because it sounds like you are one of 
the leaders in terms of actually pulling people together to 
come up with bipartisan solutions. In other words, it is fine 
to talk about ideas and it is also fine to say ``I am going to 
be bipartisan,'' and people can say ``I will take somebody's 
lousy idea.'' You have really done the hard work to put 
together bipartisan coalitions.
    I am going to start with the first topic of rural jobs 
because, as you know, Congressman Neguse and I have put 
together the 21st Century Civilian Conservation Corps, which 
would put together an effort with thousands of jobs in rural 
communities. I see my friend from New Mexico, who has been very 
interested in this issue as well. The number of vendors, for 
example, that would be selling goods and services to the 21st 
Century Civilian Conservation Corps would be a huge economic 
multiplier for rural communities. That is what rural jobs are 
really all about.
    So I think it would be great if you could talk about a 
couple of the examples that were most important to you, both in 
terms of generating jobs in rural communities and in terms of 
coalition building because those are two sides of the same coin 
in rural America. My friend from New Mexico always kids me 
about our Owyhee project that you and I have talked about. 
After 50 years of fighting and arguing about the Owyhee, we put 
together what amounts to a first-of-its-kind coalition--
farmers, environmental folks, and the like. We will get the 
jobs and we will have the benefits of the environmental 
protection, which will be a big recreation engine for the area.
    So talk to us a little bit about your views on rural jobs, 
and you can start, for example, with the bill that Congressman 
Neguse and I have. And talk about other areas that are 
important to you so people walk out of here recognizing what I 
saw, which is that you are actually pulling people together. 
You got us sponsors for that bill with the Congressman. So----
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you.
    Senator Wyden [continuing]. Let us hear your thoughts.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you. Thank you so much, Senator.
    And yes, I couldn't agree with you more that collaboration 
is absolutely important and I was the highest rated freshman 
for bipartisanship in the 116th Congress. I think it's 
important and, in fact, the reason that Mr. Young and I became 
such good friends is that he helped me to pass a lot of bills. 
Our offices worked very well together. And I think that's 
important. We can, yes, we can have different views. We can 
think differently. If we were all the same, we probably 
wouldn't get a whole lot done either. But I feel like the 
people of New Mexico sent me to Congress to get work done and 
that's precisely what I've done.
    I appreciate your having the opportunity to bring ranchers, 
tribes, and folks together in those collaborations. My sister, 
she married a rancher and gave birth to three cowboys and a 
cowgirl.
    [Laughter.]
    That's what they do. They care deeply about the land and 
their animals. And so I think that if we can all work together, 
if we can--I think we can do it all. I think we can work 
together. I think we can protect our public lands. I think we 
can create jobs. The Civilian Climate Corps is a brilliant idea 
and I look forward to young people having those opportunities. 
It's a tough time in this country sometimes and not every 
parent was like my dad, not everyone has the opportunity, if 
they're working two and three jobs, to make sure their kids 
spend time outdoors. But I think giving opportunities to those 
young people will change their lives and give them the 
opportunity to care deeply about our environment.
    Senator Wyden. I appreciate your answer, Congresswoman. And 
you know, the reality is, these kinds of efforts, like the bill 
with Congressman Neguse, the 21st Century Civilian Conservation 
Corps, can be a big economic multiplier, with vendors and the 
private sector meeting those needs, like the Owyhee 
legislation. It does not happen by osmosis. It is because you 
bring people together. The Chairman and I have talked about 
this very often when I was Chairman of the Committee; the first 
place I went was West Virginia.
    The Chairman. Yes.
    Senator Wyden. Because my colleague said just come on out 
and listen. That is what people want. They want people to have 
a chance to hear each other out and then find some common 
ground. And I am convinced that, in the middle of this 
pandemic, there is going to be an even greater appreciation for 
collaboration than there was before, because we have to do it. 
It is what the President was talking about with Build Back 
Better. And you are setting a very good tone with your answers 
to my questions. I look forward to supporting your nomination, 
Congresswoman, and working with you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Murkowski.
    Senator Murkowski. Mr. Chairman, thank you and 
Congresswoman, welcome to the Committee. Thank you for being 
here. I think it has been noted, certainly by my friend and 
colleague, the Congressman for all of Alaska and the Dean of 
the House that it is indeed very significant, your nomination 
to this position as the first Native American woman. We respect 
that.
    We have had an opportunity to discuss the very significant, 
in fact, outsized role that the Department plays over Alaskans' 
lives, whether we like it or not. This is a relationship that 
some have described as landlord-tenant. That is not a very good 
relationship to have. We would much prefer it to be more of a 
partnership.
    I want to ask you in my first round of questions this 
morning to focus on the public lands aspect and the role, 
again, that Department of the Interior plays with us. The 
Federal Government owns over 60 percent of all the land in our 
state. That is not as significant as in some states, but when 
you take into account that Alaska is one-fifth the size of the 
Lower 48, it is a lot of land. It is critical to our resource 
industry, as you know, which accounts for billions of dollars 
in wages, in tax revenue, tens of thousands of jobs and 
protecting those jobs is critically important at all times, but 
particularly now. Our state has seen the highest loss of 
revenue of any of the 50 states. We are sitting at about 33 
percent revenue loss. Think about that. The next closest state 
is a 20 percent revenue loss, but on average, it is less than 
one percent. So we are hurting right now.
    And so, when we see these Executive Orders coming out of 
the White House that not only impact a resource-based state 
like Alaska, but actually call us out by name--call us out by 
name. We were one of only two states in the nation that were 
specifically targeted by President Biden's Day-One Executive 
Orders. And it was not just on Day One that we were targeted. 
We were called out on seven separate occasions, which from 
Alaska's perspective, you have to understand that they are 
looking at this and saying ``wait a minute, why is this 
Administration out to get us?'' Well, I do not think they are 
out to get us, but I do think that there is a definite threat 
to the resource industry that our state is blessed to be able 
to host.
    So if you are confirmed to this very significant position, 
what is your approach going to be with regard to oil and gas 
and mineral resource development within a state like Alaska?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, thank you so much. And if I could 
just quickly say thank you, again, for all of your help with 
the missing and murdered indigenous women legislation. That 
means the world to me.
    Senator Murkowski. It's a big deal.
    Ms. Haaland. I realize your time is limited. I mean, first 
of all, Senator, I know that President Biden doesn't want to 
cripple any state. He put the pause on the new leases in order 
to review the program. I want you to know that if I'm 
confirmed, I will rely heavily on our relationship moving 
forward. I do want to work with you. I do want to make sure 
that I understand the unique issues in Alaska and to make sure 
that we are doing all we can to ensure that your constituents 
have the opportunities that they need.
    Senator Murkowski. Let me just ask then, in that line, 
there have been a number of rulemakings that were finalized 
under the Trump Administration. They are now being litigated in 
court. This includes the Record of Decision (ROD) for Willow, 
the Ambler Access Project, the issuance of leases in the 1002 
Area. These RODs were developed by career civil servants 
pursuant to all the environmental laws that are out there, all 
the regulations, including NEPA, done through regular order in 
an open and transparent process. So a direct question would be 
whether you would ensure that the Department continues to 
support and defend these projects and the decisions and the 
environmental reviews that were completed, again, by Interior's 
career employees.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator.
    And yes, of course, anything that's in the courts, of 
course, we would want to get an update and a status on those 
issues. Senator, what I could say is I would be very anxious to 
work with you and I will follow the law. I will absolutely 
follow the law, if I'm confirmed. That would be important, to 
say the least, and I think you can bet that I will consult with 
you regularly. I want to make the best decisions, if I'm 
confirmed, for the people of your state.
    Senator Murkowski. Defending these specific projects would 
be critically important in following that law. I would hope 
that we would have an opportunity for a second round.
    The Chairman. We sure do.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator.
    The Chairman. Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    First, let me start by clearing a few things up that I 
heard about my home state. We have not lost thousands of jobs 
in the oil and gas sector in New Mexico because there is no 
ban, and because the industry stockpiled an enormous number of 
leases under the fire sale that Secretary Bernhardt had at the 
end of the last Administration. However, I want to say, we do 
recognize that we will need to move to a fully decarbonized 
economy. And frankly, pretending that is not going to happen is 
not going to serve any of our workers well. I would submit the 
energy workers would be best served if those of us on this 
Committee show leadership by both investing in energy 
communities that have put us where we are today and in the 
technologies necessary to actively manage this transition.
    Now, speaking of workers, I want to ask you, Congresswoman, 
about the Great American Outdoors Act. It provides $9.9 billion 
over the next five years to maintain and repair infrastructure 
on our public lands. This is funding that can put people to 
work immediately, replacing roofs on visitor centers, repairing 
trails, improving campgrounds, doing things we should have done 
50 years ago to invest in our outdoor recreation economy and in 
rural communities. I just want to ask you, what steps can the 
Interior Department take to make sure that this funding is put 
to work as quickly as possible?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I know there are so, as you said, 
many areas across the country. I think the best thing to do is 
to make sure we are consulting with each other, that we get a 
list of priorities and get to work. I can imagine that every 
Senator on this Committee would have a list of priorities in 
their own state for that funding and I think it would be a 
tremendous boost.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
    One of the things about outdoor recreation is, it really 
impacts our entire state in New Mexico. There are certain 
places that have oil and gas. There are certain places that 
have wind potential. But outdoor recreation is something where 
we can invest in practically every rural community in the 
state.
    As you know, the Bureau of Indian Education established a 
top ten priority list for replacing BIA schools in 2016, and at 
the top of that list was Laguna Elementary, which I know you 
are familiar with. They received some funding in 2018, but the 
project is still not finished, and it took 12 years to get 
through the top ten list. So it is clear to me that this pace 
is inadequate, as there are 78 schools that have been 
designated in poor condition. I would just ask you, can you 
commit to reviewing that school replacement list, looking for 
ways to improve and speed up the process, and tell us in 
Congress when we are simply not doing our part to fund these 
accounts?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, it would be my pleasure. I was trying 
to add up how long ago I went to Laguna Elementary School, 
close to 50 years ago. And so, I'm sure that it has been there 
for much longer than that. So there is a lot of work to do and 
our children deserve to have opportunities to learn in the best 
way. So yes.
    Senator Heinrich. I am sure you are overestimating how long 
ago that was.
    [Laughter.]
    But another issue that we have had a chance to work on a 
little bit--as you know, for centuries, sacred cultural items 
that belong to tribal communities have been taken to foreign 
countries and sold to the highest bidder. Now, we have laws in 
the United States that make the sale of certain tribal sacred 
objects a federal crime. However, we do not have a law against 
taking those same items overseas and selling them there. That 
is a loophole that we need to fix. I have legislation with 
Senator Murkowski that would do that. However, even when we 
have an export ban in place, there are likely thousands of 
sacred objects already overseas that need to be brought back 
home to tribal communities, where they belong. The Interior 
Department plays a critical role in the international 
repatriation of those items, working with the State Department, 
the Department of Homeland Security, and others to ensure that 
tribes are able to reclaim these items that have been stolen 
from them.
    As Secretary, will you commit to making repatriation of 
these items an actual priority for the Department? It is part 
of the responsibility, but I think it is something that just 
has not been fully elevated to a real priority in previous 
administrations.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you so much, Senator and Senator 
Murkowski, for caring about this important issue. It's 
heartbreaking. I've seen some of those pictures on the internet 
and it's heartbreaking to know that folks who don't know the 
power or the meaning of those objects, think of them as art and 
they're definitely not art. So absolutely. That would be a very 
important issue and I believe tribes would be grateful.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Lankford.
    Senator Lankford. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    Representative Haaland, thanks for being here and for the 
dialogue. I am sure you are very aware, last week across much 
of the Midwest we had very extreme cold temperatures that 
happened.
    Ms. Haaland. Yes.
    Senator Lankford. We had a test in the Southwest Power Pool 
and, while there was a lot of national attention that was on 
Texas and the long shutdowns there, we had issues as well. Our 
wind towers froze up. In fact, for several days in the 
Southwest Power Pool we were actually running more diesel power 
than we were wind power, which it is not uncommon for us to run 
40 percent of our power by wind power. We had a real pull on 
all of our solar panels, obviously, they were covered in snow 
at the time or there were very cloudy days. And so we had quite 
a challenge on just being able to maintain power when we were 
at negative 14 degrees. So the issues about power and 
reliability and resilience matter to us.
    Ms. Haaland. Yeah.
    Senator Lankford. Because we want to make sure that we do 
not lose access to this. So while jobs matter and those are 
extremely important, it matters to every single consumer, the 
cost of energy and the availability of energy and the diversity 
of energy. So we are truly an all-of-the-above state as you and 
I have talked about before. We have more renewables in Oklahoma 
that we use in our power than New Mexico does. We are 
significant in our use of renewables and appreciate those. But 
we have some real challenges that we want to make sure that we 
pay attention to.
    So let me drill down on a few issues because of some of 
your past statements, and I want to get a few things just in 
conversation. The Osage Nation and the Osage Mineral Council, 
they have a lot of oil and gas development in their tribal 
areas. They have had a challenge--in fact, we asked them about 
it. They said they have had seven years of devastation brought 
on by onerous BIA regulations restricting access under oil and 
gas well records and then Fish and Wildlife coming in and 
adding environmental impact statements that were entirely new 
to them. It is a significant portion of the income for the 
tribe and it is significant to the state as well.
    What would be your standards on oil and gas development, 
mineral development in tribal areas?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you for that question, Senator.
    And first, your comment about Oklahoma having more 
renewables than New Mexico, I don't know about Senator 
Heinrich, but that sounds like a challenge to me. So perhaps we 
can work on that.
    Senator, with respect to the pause on leases, I know that 
it's just on public lands, not on tribal lands. And so tribes 
should continue to move forward with their operations.
    Senator Lankford. Do you assume that the rules would be 
different for tribal lands as they would be on federal lands in 
the days ahead because as you make recommendations--you have 
made some pretty bold statements in the past, saying no 
fracking, no pipelines, I mean, those are some of the 
statements you have made in the past--you are going to make 
recommendations to the Biden team and you have said several 
times you will follow President Biden's direction but, 
obviously, as Secretary of Interior you are making 
recommendations then, sitting at the table as well.
    Would your recommendations be different for tribal land 
development than they would be for federal land development?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I want to first assure you that if I 
am confirmed as Secretary that is a far different role than a 
Congresswoman representing one small district in my state. So I 
understand that role. It's to serve all Americans, not just my 
one district in New Mexico. Of course, I can't fully answer 
those questions at the moment. I am not there yet. If I am 
confirmed as Secretary, I will absolutely take all these issues 
into consideration and, of course, look forward to consulting 
with you.
    Senator Lankford. But would your recommendations be that 
there would be unique difference between tribal management of 
their mineral rights and oil and gas development, fracking, all 
of those things, pipelines, then there would be on federal 
lands?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I would be happy to look at the 
issue, to study it then if I'm confirmed and speak with you 
about----
    Senator Lankford. Let me show you a map.
    [The map follows:]
    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T3821.007
    
    Senator Lankford. This is a map of one of the units for oil 
and gas area, and it doesn't matter the state, but it shows 
that the complexity of this for many of these leases that come 
up, a portion of the land would be, in this case, it is an area 
that is tribal land--that is what you see in the tan here and 
then in the salmon color, it is managed by the Army Corps of 
Engineers, but that still has BLM oil and gas leases on it. So 
the challenge becomes that there are different sets of rules 
when they go through this process. What I am trying to get at 
is, this is a common look as you go through the different 
leases that are there, that anytime they start to do any kind 
of unit, a development, and they get complexity on what the 
rules are going to be. The rules are different in each of these 
areas. If you change that area from tribal land to private 
land, that even changes it more.
    So let me just ask you a question. Permitting wise, would 
you look at this type of map and just say permits--not just the 
lease, but the permits--would be different. If the federal 
lands had a moratorium on them, could they still develop the 
private lands? Could they still develop the tribal lands that 
are, literally, right next to the federal lands?
    Ms. Haaland. I understand. It's sort of a complicated 
issue.
    Senator Lankford. But that is what the real world looks 
like.
    Ms. Haaland. Yes, I understand what you're saying and I 
would be happy to take a look at those, be briefed, understand 
the issue far better and work with you, if there are issues in 
your state.
    Senator Lankford. Okay. Thank you. I look forward to a 
second round.
    The Chairman. Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    It is good to see you, Congresswoman.
    I ask the following two initial questions of every nominee 
before any of the committees on which I sit. So here are the 
initial questions.
    Since you became a legal adult, have you ever made unwanted 
requests for sexual favors or committed any verbal or physical 
harassment or assault of a sexual nature?
    Ms. Haaland. No, Senator.
    Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered 
into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
    Ms. Haaland. No, ma'am.
    Senator Hirono. It was very nice to see my friend, Don 
Young, introduce you. I have worked with him myself, and I know 
how committed he is, especially to the indigenous peoples 
programs. I thank you for meeting with me a little while ago to 
discuss policy matters that are very important to me. And, of 
course, the issues that relate to Hawaii's indigenous Native 
Hawaiian community are very important to me. I note, as several 
have already noted, how historic and important it is that you 
will be the first Native American woman--Native American and 
woman--to serve as Secretary of the Interior. I also note that 
you are a 35th generation Pueblo, which means that your people 
were in our country long before the rest of us ever came here. 
So I think the significance of your background is not lost on 
any of us.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you.
    Senator Hirono. Based on my conversation with you, I would 
expect that you will be very committed to working with us on 
Native foreign issues, as well as the issues relating to other 
indigenous peoples like the Alaska Natives and American 
Indians. We also discussed the concern about invasive species 
in Hawaii's very unique environment and, in fact, Hawaii is the 
invasive species capital of the country. It is so significant 
that this entire month in Hawaii has been dedicated to invasive 
species awareness. I know that I can count on you to work with 
me on addressing the concerns relating to invasive species.
    Finally, we discussed the relationship between the United 
States and the independent nations of the Republic of the 
Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, and the 
Republic of Palau. These relations, governed by the Compacts of 
Free Association, are set to expire in 2023 and 2024. I 
encourage you, should you be confirmed, to work collaboratively 
with your colleagues at the Department of Defense and the 
Department of State, and with the Members of Congress to find 
ways to improve and expand the existing compacts through the 
renegotiation process, and assure that there is a fair and 
collaborative financial commitment to fund these compacts.
    I am really glad, Congresswoman, that you noted the concern 
regarding the missing and murdered indigenous women and 
Children. This is an issue that I would like to work on with 
you, and I did bring up what more we can do with Merrick 
Garland, during his confirmation hearing to be Attorney 
General.
    You have been asked a lot of questions about fossil fuels 
versus clean, non-fossil fuels, et cetera. I do not necessarily 
see that as some sort of dichotomy that is necessary, but can 
you discuss the job creation potential presented by clean 
energy transition, even for families that have worked in the 
fossil fuel industry?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the question 
and appreciate all of the issues that you raised leading up to 
your question. I am grateful for your support on so many of the 
issues that I worked on in Congress. And yes, President Biden 
is geared up to help create millions of jobs and you've heard 
us talk about the Civilian Climate Corps. You've heard us talk 
about clean energy. I know that coming from a state such as New 
Mexico, where we have over 300 days of sun per year and 
absolutely an abundance of wind, that there are many more 
places like that and I think we can move our clean energy 
forward.
    Part of the reason why I feel very strongly about this, 
coming from New Mexico as well, is that if we have other 
streams of revenue that we can move forward to fund our 
schools, we don't suffer the booms and the busts that we've 
experienced in New Mexico as well. So I feel strongly that 
technology, moving forward in a place also like New Mexico, 
with two national labs there, that the technology is something 
that will absolutely make a tremendous difference, technology 
and innovation, as we've already talked about. We can't 
understate the value of that in the jobs that those two things 
can create.
    Senator Hirono. Hawaii started out as one of the most 
fossil fuel-dependent states in the entire country, where we 
were importing some 97 percent of all of our energy for 
electricity from outside of our state. We have a very ambitious 
plan, an attainable goal of becoming fuel efficient and energy 
efficient by 2045. And that means that we intend to create 
these kinds of energy efficient jobs in the state. So I know 
that is, of course, a possibility.
    I also wanted to give you an opportunity, once again, to 
emphasize the importance of working in a bipartisan manner, 
which you do very well. But maybe you can explain why you hold 
the record for introducing more bipartisan bills than your 
colleagues. We are talking about a lot of people in the U.S. 
Congress, and you have a really good record.
    The Chairman. Senator, your time is expiring.
    Senator Hirono. Well, I just wanted to emphasize she is 
really good at that.
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. Okay. Thank you, Senator, thank you very 
much.
    Senator Cassidy.
    Senator Cassidy. Thank you. Thank you, Congresswoman 
Haaland. Thank you for the visit the other day. I enjoyed our 
visit. Your personal story is compelling and one thing we spoke 
of are those families such as yours and, frankly, such as mine 
growing up, whose parents were able to have a better living 
because of something. In Louisiana, many of those better 
livings are related to the oil and gas industry, pipelines, et 
cetera, and we understand that if there is kind of a campaign 
against them, there are many families which will have a less-
bright future. So with that said, let me first ask, do you 
agree with President Biden's Executive Order to stop the 
Keystone XL Pipeline, knowing that 11,000 current or future 
jobs are eliminated because of it?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, thank you so much for the question, 
and of course, I know that the Keystone has been an issue--both 
sides very passionate on both sides. And with respect to 
President Biden's decision, it is his decision. He's the 
President. And so----
    Senator Cassidy. So then let me ask you this. Let me ask 
you this, and in the context, Senator Barrasso mentioned kind 
of your attitude that--your perception as to how Republicans 
view science. So if I could point to a State Department report, 
based upon science, which said that building the pipeline 
lowers global greenhouse gas emissions. If you were the 
President, would you eliminate the pipeline with the 11,000 
jobs and the futures that are less bright for those families 
knowing that by not building it, based on science from the 
State Department, we would have increased global greenhouse gas 
emissions?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, thank you.
    I will be happy to read any report. I'll be happy to be 
briefed on any position.
    Senator Cassidy. No, but I can stipulate, if you will just 
stipulate that because that is a State Department report, that 
is the science. I am just hoping, no offense, that Democrats 
pay attention to the science and that is the nature of my 
question. So if you can accept that as a stipulation, I am 
willing to get it for you, but I am just trying to understand--
is this Administration going to be, and will your Department be 
guided by a prejudice against fossil fuel or will it be guided 
by science?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, if I could just take the liberty of 
saying I--prejudice on fossil fuels perhaps isn't the way I 
would describe it. I would say that President Biden is feeling 
and moving toward the tremendous opportunities that we have in 
diversifying our energy resources.
    Senator Cassidy. That is kind of dodging my question, 
Congresswoman and I don't mean to be rude, but if the science--
is your Department going to be guided by science or by 
something other than science? Let me put it non-prejudicially, 
because clearly the Biden Administration was not guided by 
science and Republicans, by the way, are guided by science. I 
am just seeing if this Administration will be and if your 
Department will be.
    Ms. Haaland. I have stated many times that if I am 
confirmed that the Interior Department's decisions will be 
guided by science.
    Senator Cassidy. Thank you.
    Now, there is a Wall Street Journal article recently 
pointing out that if the United States cuts its production of 
oil and gas, global demand will not be affected, but global 
supply will come from other countries. Intuitively, does that 
make sense to you?
    Ms. Haaland. I beg your pardon, Senator, I apologize, if 
you could just repeat that once more?
    Senator Cassidy. So there is a recent article suggesting 
that even if the United States decreases production of oil and 
gas that global demand will continue the same.
    Ms. Haaland. Well----
    Senator Cassidy. So--I am sorry, go ahead.
    Ms. Haaland. No, I understand. I mean, we're hoping that 
when we create some of these clean energy opportunities that 
perhaps that will change.
    Senator Cassidy. So when you were introduced by Congressman 
Young, he pointed out that 80 percent of a barrel of oil does 
not go for propulsion, rather it goes for the plastics and 
chemicals essential to modernity. For example, making the 
products that go into a wind turbine, the carpet that we are 
both looking at right now, whatever room we are in. So, given 
that even if we have clean energy, that 80 percent of it goes 
for non-propulsion purposes, would you agree that it is quite 
likely that, even in the rosiest scenario, there will continue 
to be demand for oil and gas?
    Ms. Haaland. Yes, Senator. And I did say that in my opening 
statement.
    Senator Cassidy. So I guess I will finish by asking once 
more. Even if we decrease production, is it reasonable to 
assume that global demand will remain roughly constant and that 
supply will come from other countries?
    Ms. Haaland. Well, and I appreciate the logic that you're 
explaining to me. I guess I would hope that moving forward we 
will all realize that we have a stake in our own future and----
    Senator Cassidy. Oh, I so believe that. I will close by 
saying this, and it is the future of those families who just 
lost their jobs because of the Keystone XL Pipeline being shut 
down and others involved in an industry producing a product 
that will be used worldwide, but perhaps if we are not guided 
by science and logic, they will lose their future. That is my 
concern. And I am not being personal with you, but I am trying 
to represent those families right now who cannot speak, but 
whose jobs are being lost for a political agenda, not based on 
science.
    I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator King.
    Senator King. I first want to tell our witness that about 
20 years ago, I took an RV trip with my family and, for the 
first time in a serious way, visited the Southwest. I found 
that the landscape was so completely different from where I 
live, and it was a real revelation. Bandelier in New Mexico, 
White Sands, the travel that we did in that area was just, as I 
say, a revelation. And therefore, if confirmed, I want to 
invite you, Representative Haaland, to come to New England, and 
particularly to come to Maine and visit our incredible national 
park, Acadia, and the Katahdin Woods and Waters National 
Monument, which is only four years old, but is already having a 
positive impact on the region where it is located. So I would 
love to welcome you to Maine, and hope that you will take 
advantage of that invitation, should you be confirmed, which I 
hope will be the case.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, sir. Yes, I'll come. Thank you.
    Senator King. Good. That was the right answer. You are 
doing great so far.
    Many of us on this Committee supported, very 
enthusiastically, the Great American Outdoors Act, which passed 
last year, as you know, but there were some disturbing 
interpretations and executions of that law at the very end of 
the previous Administration. I hope that you will review the 
law---and I know that you supported it in the House--and be 
sure that the implementation is corresponding to the intent of 
Congress. I have a pet motto that implementation and execution 
are as important as vision. So I hope you will commit to 
working with us to be sure that the Great American Outdoors Act 
is implemented in the way that was intended by Congress, to 
maximize the benefits to the American people.
    Ms. Haaland. I absolutely would, Senator.
    Senator King. One of the issues that is of interest in New 
England, and in Maine, is offshore wind. It has enormous energy 
potential. There is an experimental project underway now in 
Maine, called Aqua Ventus, sponsored by our University of 
Maine. I think one of the important areas that you can pay some 
attention to is the regulatory process and the timeliness. My 
approach has always been that we want the toughest regulatory--
or the toughest environmental rules in the world, but we want 
the most timely and predictable process.
    I hope that is something that you can take a look at 
because this is an important potential energy source. It could 
really be a huge change for this country, and we want that. I 
am all for protecting the environment and protecting the 
fisheries, but I do not want the process itself to be a barrier 
to this important development.
    Ms. Haaland. I understand, Senator, and I would look 
forward to working with you on any of those issues.
    Senator King. My final question is on the issue which, I 
think, is the low-hanging fruit of climate change, and that is 
methane. As you know, there were some serious methane capture 
regulations passed five or six years ago. They were essentially 
repealed by the prior Administration. I hope, certainly on 
public lands, that you will look to reintroducing those 
regulations, which are not terribly costly--at least, that is 
my understanding--but will be enormously beneficial in terms of 
the elimination of greenhouse gases. As you know, methane is 80 
times as dangerous as CO2. So anything we can do on 
eliminating methane releases into the atmosphere is critically 
important. Will you commit to reviewing those regulations about 
methane release in terms of drilling on public lands?
    Ms. Haaland. Yes, Senator. And I understand--and I 
completely understand and appreciate you caring about this 
issue. We should be breathing clean air.
    Senator King. Well, I appreciate your testimony here today, 
and your responsiveness. I guess the final question would be, 
do you commit to appearing before and cooperating with this 
Committee as we try to exercise our oversight role? We really 
want to be partners with you in your important role at the 
Department of the Interior.
    Ms. Haaland. Absolutely, Senator.
    Senator King. Good. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you.
    Senator King. I look forward to supporting your nomination.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    And now we have Senator Hoeven.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and to 
the Ranking Member as well and also to Congresswoman Haaland. 
Thank you for being here today, for your testimony as well as 
for visiting with me on the phone earlier. I appreciate it very 
much.
    In North Dakota, we are an energy powerhouse for this 
nation. We produce energy really from all sources except for 
nuclear power, including renewables, biofuels and wind, as well 
as fossil fuel, coal-fired electric and oil and gas. We are the 
second largest oil producing state in the nation, producing 
about 1.3 or 1.4 million barrels a day now. At one time, we 
were over 1.5 million. We will probably go back well up over 
that, second only to the State of Texas in terms of oil 
production.
    Now, we worked very hard to have the latest and greatest 
environmental standards. We continue to work at that. We want 
to be an absolute leader for the country in carbon capture and 
sequestration. That being said, we have to have transmission 
lines and pipelines to move energy to market. We have to have 
that infrastructure. A very good example of that is the Dakota 
Access Pipeline, which has now been operating for three years, 
safely moving well over half a million barrels of light sweet 
crude oil a day to refineries, particularly in the eastern part 
of the country and other parts which would otherwise have to 
get their oil from OPEC, Saudi Arabia. Instead, we produce it 
here with good job creation.
    So in the case of the Dakota Access Pipeline, which I said 
has been operating now for three years safely, you were there 
and protested the pipeline. Are you still opposed to that 
pipeline?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, yes, I did go to stand with the Water 
Protectors during that several years back. The reason I did 
that is because I agreed with the tribe that they felt they 
weren't consulted in the best way. I know that tribal 
consultation is important and that was the reason that I was 
there.
    Senator Hoeven. What is your position on the pipeline 
today?
    Ms. Haaland. Well, Senator, I know it's an important issue 
for you and I understand that. I also agree that whenever these 
projects come up that we absolutely should make sure that we 
are consulting with tribes if, in fact, these projects do 
affect their lands, their sacred sites and the like. So----
    Senator Hoeven. I understand. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Did 
you--go ahead and finish. I did not mean to interrupt.
    Ms. Haaland. No, sir. I mean, I am happy to get briefed on 
any of these issues if I'm confirmed and, of course, Senator, I 
would listen to you and consult with you and work with you to 
the best of my ability.
    Senator Hoeven. Well, I certainly understand the importance 
of tribal consultation and that has been going on extensively 
and it continues. Right now, the Corps of Engineers is 
conducting an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) pursuant to 
ongoing litigation. As I say, this pipeline has been operating 
for three years safely now, moving more than half a million 
barrels of oil a day. But the Corps is going through an EIS 
process to comply with a court order. Do you agree that it is 
important for the Army Corps to complete its review in a fact-
based, objective manner and to do so promptly? Do you agree 
with that?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, thank you for the question and yes, 
thank you also for raising the issue that it is the Army Corps 
of Engineers' authority. Where any of these issues come into 
the authority of the Department of the Interior, if I'm 
confirmed, I will absolutely give those things my attention.
    Senator Hoeven. But your answer is yes, the Corps should 
complete its--go through the proper process and complete its 
EIS. That is your position?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I think everyone should follow the 
law and if that's the law, then absolutely.
    Senator Hoeven. Given your history, being at the protest, 
are you willing to commit to recuse yourself from the matters 
that come before Interior related to the Dakota Access Pipeline 
in order to avoid any conflict of interest?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, it's my understanding that there are 
attorneys at the Department of the Interior and also ethics 
folks. If I am confirmed, of course, I will heed the advice of 
those attorneys and the Ethics Office for any issues where 
there might be any of those conflicts.
    Senator Hoeven. All right. Again, thank you for visiting 
with me earlier and for your time today.
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, thank you also for working with us on 
the House side to get some important legislation passed.
    Senator Hoeven. And I know I am just a little bit over, but 
I would also mention to you that the Three Affiliated Tribes of 
North Dakota produces, just on their reservation alone, if they 
were a state all by themselves, they would be about the ninth 
or tenth largest oil-producing state in the nation. And so they 
produce an incredible amount of energy for this nation, which 
brings incredible benefit to the Three Affiliated Tribes--
Mandan, Hidatsa and Arikara--and their oil goes through that 
pipeline. Do you have any thoughts on that? Incredibly 
important for that tribe.
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, it's my understanding that, with 
respect to the leases that we've been talking about, the pause 
on the leases does not affect tribal lands, just----
    Senator Hoeven. Right, but I am talking about the ability 
to access the Dakota Access Pipeline. That is how they move 
their product from its location.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you so much, Senator. And I look forward 
to absolutely working on these issues, if I'm confirmed, and 
bringing you into the conversation as much as possible.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Before I go to Senator Cortez Masto, we are going to have 
two votes here at 11:30, and what we are going to do is try to 
get through our first round. We are going to come back tomorrow 
at 10:00 for our second round.
    Congresswoman, would that be okay with you? Can you come 
back at 10:00 tomorrow?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I will do whatever you tell me to do.
    The Chairman. Well, I am respectfully asking if you could 
be here, that it would be much appreciated, at 10:00. That will 
be our second round. So everyone can hold on that, if you will.
    With that, we will try to conclude our first round. We have 
about three or four more Senators.
    Senator Hyde-Smith.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and welcome, 
Congresswoman Haaland, and congratulations on this historic 
nomination to be Secretary of Interior, and I am hopeful that 
through this confirmation process we can gain a deeper 
understanding on how you intend to lead the Department of the 
Interior if you are confirmed.
    And as a Congresswoman--and I think you came in in 2019--
you have been there two years, a little over two years?
    Ms. Haaland. I was elected in 2018 and sworn in in 2019.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Since you have been in that position, 
you have gone on record stating, ``I pledge to vote against all 
new fossil fuel infrastructure and to fight instead for 100 
percent clean energy.''
    And ``Mississippi,'' of course, is on the outside of my 
door that says, ``Senator Hyde-Smith.'' It has ``Mississippi'' 
under there--the state that I represent alone has a substantial 
energy infrastructure which provides thousands of jobs and 
hundreds of millions in economic output through the production 
of fossil fuels in our ports, our refineries, our processing 
plants, and many facilities in the great state that I 
represent. But by halting this production of essential fossil 
fuels, Mississippi jobs alone would be just decimated, leaving 
families without a source of income during an already troubling 
time economically, and halting offshore energy production would 
also deny my state resources that are now dedicated to 
conservation and other very good works. Frankly, your positions 
on energy are alarming to Mississippians.
    What do you recommend I tell my constituents that are 
directly affected by this to assure them that their livelihoods 
and the way they make a living and provide for their families 
are still secure?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, thank you so much for the question 
and first of all, it might bear repeating that I was the most 
bipartisan freshman in my first term in Congress. That's 
because I came here to get work done. And I realize that 
serving as a Cabinet Secretary is far different from being a 
Member of Congress, where I'm representing one district, it's 
representing every single American. And I recognize that there 
is a difference in those two roles and I want you to know that 
Cabinet Secretaries, the Administration is a co-equal branch of 
our government, just as Congress is. And so it's important that 
we're able to work together. And I can just promise you that I 
will listen to you. I will take into consideration your issues 
and how you want to present them and certainly will look 
forward to many more conversations about your state and how we 
can ensure the people of your state have what they need to move 
forward.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. So you don't have any specifics on what 
I can report back to them of how their livelihoods are still 
secure with your leadership?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I would just like to also reiterate, 
perhaps, that President Biden has just put a pause on new 
leases--not valid, existing leases and I don't know when that 
review will be finished. It is a review the Administration 
wants to do on the federal fossil fuel program. And of course, 
I know that the valid, existing leases will move forward. There 
are thousands of those currently and I believe the Department 
is still moving permits through. So I feel like in the short-
term that, hopefully, their jobs have not been affected.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Okay. And for the future, you know, I 
want to discuss the future of offshore oil and gas leasing in 
the Gulf of Mexico. A 2020 analysis concluded that banning 
federal leasing would result in nearly 14,000 Mississippi jobs 
lost in a very small state. We are less than three million. In 
the first 12 to 24 months, a decrease in offshore oil 
production by 44 percent and natural gas by 68 percent by 2030 
will increase dependency on imports by nearly two million 
barrels per day and cause a potential loss of $32 million in 
our state revenue. How do you foresee the future of offshore 
leasing--when the Gulf of Mexico is vital to our nation's 
energy security by providing approximately 20 percent of 
America's oil and natural gas production--with your leadership 
in the future if these things do come to pass?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, as I mentioned, of course, it's just 
a pause. It's not a ban. It's my understanding that there are 
approximately 7,700 unused, approved permits to drill currently 
that have not been put into use. And so there is a long way to 
go before, you know, in order to make use of all the permits 
that are actually out there and ready to be used.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you.
    And I have further questions at the appropriate time, Mr. 
Chair.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    And Senator Cortez Masto, from Nevada, I think she is with 
us now.
    Senator Cortez Masto. I am.
    Chairman, thank you, and thank you to the Ranking Member. 
Congresswoman Haaland, thank you for being here today, for your 
dedication to public service, and for your family's long 
history of military service to our nation.
    I also recognize, as a member of the Senate Indian Affairs 
Committee, the historic nature of your nomination as the first 
Native American woman nominated by the President to lead the 
Department of the Interior. I want to thank you for taking the 
time with me prior to this hearing to go through some issues 
and talk about how we can collaboratively work together for the 
State of Nevada. As you and I previously discussed, over 80 
percent of the land in Nevada is managed by the Federal 
Government, and about 63 percent is specifically managed by the 
Bureau of Land Management. So public lands are vital to my 
state's economy, whether that be for mining, grazing, outdoor 
recreation, and other uses. It is so important that we have a 
good working relationship with the Department of the Interior 
and the Federal Government.
    As you and I discussed, there is so much land that the BLM 
owns, particularly small parcels throughout the State of Nevada 
in many of our communities and metropolitan areas, and that is 
why, over the years, Nevada has made a point of looking at how 
we can improve our working relationship at the federal level. 
So having greater interagency and intergovernmental 
collaboration on permitting compliance is important. Having the 
BLM prioritize numerous pending realty applications and 
recreation public purpose leases is important to us. Making 
sure that there is greater alignment between BLM and state and 
local governments on renewable energy and transmission siting, 
and prioritizing the distribution of funds from the Southern 
Nevada Public Land Management Act special account for regional 
conservation and environmental enhancement projects, are 
important to Nevada.
    So, Congresswoman, can I have your commitment that you and 
your staff will prioritize efficient land management and 
greater collaboration with the State of Nevada?
    Ms. Haaland. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you.
    Let me touch on something that I know some of my colleagues 
were talking about, but I want to put this in perspective. 
There is a lot of speculative oil and gas leasing on federal 
lands, and that is a concern of mine. In recent years, the BLM 
has spent an inordinate amount of time and resources offering 
vast acreages for oil and gas development on lands where the 
oil and gas industry does not really have any development 
interests, and on lands that have little to no potential for 
development. Making these lands available for leasing only 
fuels the speculation industry, and it really wastes BLM 
resources while locking up the land from being managed for 
purposes like wildlife habitat preservation, outdoor 
recreation, and grazing. I introduced the End Speculative Oil 
and Gas Leasing Act. I would ask you to commit to reviewing my 
bill and considering the value of implementing this policy. 
Will you be willing to do so?
    Ms. Haaland. I'd be happy to review your bill. Of course, 
I'll have to read it first. I would love to work with you in 
any capacity on issues you think are important and I'll look 
forward to getting to know that more.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Wonderful, thank you.
    In addition to all that we have discussed, and more, I have 
worked very hard with my colleagues in Nevada--impacted 
communities, and industries--on alternative proposals to the 
Defense Department's modernization proposals for the Nellis and 
Fallon training ranges in my state. In both instances, the Air 
Force and Navy have sought to expand their operations, which 
have substantive impacts on lands managed by the Interior 
Department, including wildlife refuges, popular recreational 
areas, family farms and ranches, and important tribal and 
cultural resources. The Department of the Interior must be 
actively engaged in these discussions and finding reasonable, 
workable, and collaborative solutions. If confirmed, will you 
commit that the Department of the Interior will seek to work 
with all of the stakeholders to find such solutions?
    Ms. Haaland. Yes, thank you. We will always work to strike 
the right balance and I appreciate you caring about this issue, 
Senator.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    One final commitment I need from you. In the Fiscal Year 
2021 NDAA, I included an amendment creating intergovernmental 
executive committees between the military and the Interior 
Department to allow local, state, and tribal governments a 
public forum to collaborate with the military in providing 
advice and exchanging information on the management of natural 
and local resources on federal lands in Nevada that are 
currently used for military purposes. Will you commit to 
expeditiously establishing these committees?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I love collaboration. I think that's 
a way we can make sure that things are moving forward and I 
appreciate you caring so much about that and I look forward to 
working with you on it.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you again for your 
willingness to serve.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. We have two more 
Senators, then we will adjourn. We have Senator Marshall at 
this time, then we will have Senator Hickenlooper finishing up, 
and then we will come back tomorrow at 10:00. But we will 
adjourn today after these two. Thank you.
    Senator Marshall.
    Senator Marshall. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and welcome 
Congresswoman Haaland and congratulations on your nomination. 
Thank you to the Chairman and the Ranking Member for giving me 
the opportunity. This is a dream come true for a little kid 
from Kansas to be on this particular committee.
    You know, I think about growing up, and why I am on this 
Committee is, I want to leave it better than we found it. As a 
Boy Scout, that is what we were taught. And just looking 
forward to the days ahead of us that I can share with my 
grandchildren, the national parks that I have visited and 
continuing this fishing and hunting across this great country. 
How we can continue to improve our environment but also have 
affordable energy, you know, where is that compromise to get 
both of those? That those are our goals and that the 
supportable energy is very important to the prosperity in my 
grandchildren's future, just like it is the opportunity to 
visit these national parks. And, of course, you know, finally, 
I think about energy and national security and how important 
those two issues are and where they are combining and the 
importance to my children and grandchildren, why this Committee 
is so important. And your nomination is so important to me.
    I had the pleasure of serving on the Science, Space, and 
Technology Committee in the House and one thing we were taught 
was that this country is at a 25-year low for carbon 
production--25-year low, incredible--that our carbon production 
is down 14 percent over the last decade. How would you explain 
that? How has this country gotten to this decreased carbon 
production through your eyes? What has been the success?
    Ms. Haaland. Well, we heard Senator Lankford talk about 
Oklahoma having more renewable energy than they essentially get 
credit for and I think that a lot of states, individually, have 
worked hard. We have an Energy Transition Act in New Mexico 
that was passed by our state legislature. And I think 
everybody's working on the issue. I think climate change is 
something that folks are realizing, you know, it's an all-
hands-on-deck effort. And so I really appreciate your optimism, 
Senator, thank you.
    Senator Marshall. You bet. And I would just throw out that 
I think American innovation has had a lot to do with it.
    Ms. Haaland. Absolutely.
    Senator Marshall. Coal plants, burning plants are 99 
percent cleaner than when I was growing up. The oil processing, 
our refineries. I grew up with two oil refineries surrounding 
my city and just the air and the waters of Kansas are cleaner 
today than when I was growing up.
    I wanted to turn and just briefly talk about prescribed 
burning and invasive species--prescribed burning and grazing. 
Invasive species that I have dealt with commonly on my own land 
would be the salt cedar and red cedar. And generally, do you 
feel in favor of not using prescribed burns and grazing 
opportunities to control invasive species?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I'm glad you mentioned invasive 
species. It's happened on Laguna with the salt cedar. It just 
took over immediately and there was an effort to try to 
eradicate the salt cedar on the banks of the Rio San Jose. So I 
understand how fast those things grow and I look forward to 
working with you to find ways to remedy those situations.
    Senator Marshall. Okay.
    Gosh, you know, this five minutes goes by really quickly 
here, but lastly, I just want to talk about national parks for 
a second. One of my wife's bucket lists is to go to every 
national park in the country, and in our bedroom, she has a 
little plaque, and each one of those she has checked off. Two 
years ago, we got to go to the Badlands and to Mount Rushmore. 
And when I think of national parks, I think about the Fourth of 
July, my favorite holiday of the year, and just seeing Mount 
Rushmore in all its grandeur was something I will never forget.
    Governor Noem reached out to me last night and she and her 
delegation want to invite you and President Biden back to Mount 
Rushmore for a Fourth of July celebration. I hope you all can 
continue that tradition. I think it is great for America to 
celebrate our independence and what a great place to do that. 
And again, when I think about national parks, I think about 
Teddy Roosevelt, perhaps America's greatest conservationist.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator.
    If the pandemic is over and we're able to travel, I've 
never been to Mount Rushmore and so, I appreciate that. I would 
also suggest that your wife get a national park passport.
    Senator Marshall. Oh, we have them. We have them.
    Ms. Haaland. You've got that too.
    Senator Marshall. Oh, you bet you, we do.
    Ms. Haaland. You can put the stamps in.
    Senator Marshall. It is one of the best deals in America to 
buy a yearlong passport and go to all of these national parks. 
It is an incredible country we live in.
    Thank you and I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thanks, Senator.
    And finally, Senator Hickenlooper.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Chair. Secretary designee 
Haaland, it is very nice to see you again, and I appreciate you 
taking the time with the Committee today. Like New Mexico, 
Colorado has a very strong conservation community and a 
vigorous outdoor recreation community. One of the things I am 
very interested in is a bill I co-sponsored with Senator 
Bennet, the Colorado Outdoor Recreation and Economy Act, CORE, 
which would protect over 400,000 acres of public lands in 
Colorado, including new designations for Forest Service land. 
The bill enjoys broad bipartisan support of local elected 
officials, business owners, recreationalists, and 
conservationists. I think communities across our state have 
been working for ten years on this bill as a historic effort to 
protect public lands. The CORE Act is key to helping ensure 
that Coloradans inherit both a thriving outdoor recreation 
economy and pristine outdoor spaces, as you already have been 
discussing this morning.
    I know you are as committed to outdoor recreation on public 
lands as I am. I was impressed that you have been to so many of 
the public lands and are such an active outdoor recreationist. 
In regards to the CORE Act, the previous Administration opposed 
the bill last Congress based on testimony that misrepresented 
the facts on the ground in Colorado. While they said it would 
reduce areas open to motorized recreation, the bill, in fact, 
does not close any existing roads, Jeep trails, off-highway 
vehicle trails, or motorcycle trails. I would ask that you 
commit to doing a full review of the agency's stance on the 
CORE Act to ensure that it reflects an informed and accurate 
understanding of the facts in Colorado.
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I was a conferee on the NDAA last 
year and I was disappointed that the CORE Act wasn't included 
after all. I know I can speak for myself, but I also know that 
President Biden supports a strong outdoor economy for our 
entire country, and I understand that the Administration also 
endorses the bill. So, yes.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. Well, thank you.
    Also like New Mexico, Colorado has, in addition to that 
conservation community and outdoor recreation community, an 
important oil and gas industry. The Executive Order stated that 
existing operations would not be impacted by the delegation of 
authority, and yet many ancillary aspects, from sundry permits, 
rights-of-way over BLM land, which are essential to those 
existing operations, would require approval from a small number 
of individuals, which sometimes can create time delays and new 
risks. I have heard concerns from tribal groups and from 
operators that, despite promises that the moratorium will not 
impact existing leases, the constrained permitting process for 
the existing leases might become permanent.
    So I was hoping that you would be willing to work with us 
to provide some certainty around those existing rights-of-way 
and existing permits, that they will not be negatively 
impacted.
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I'll be very happy to work with you. 
As I've mentioned before, the Congress is a co-equal branch of 
government. I think if we work together, we can get a lot 
accomplished.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Perfect, I appreciate that.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you.
    Senator Hickenlooper. As you and I previously discussed, I 
strongly support keeping the BLM Headquarters in Grand 
Junction. I know it is somewhat controversial. I have had 
conversations with a number of my Senate colleagues, 
particularly those representing states with substantial BLM 
lands, and I have seen broad, bipartisan support for a 
headquarters office to remain in the West. I think we should 
absolutely avoid the mistakes of the last Administration, but I 
think uprooting those 21 employees in Grand Junction and moving 
them again would be disruptive, and likely result in the loss 
of even more BLM employees. I do not think the last 
Administration managed the move properly. It was perceived as 
an attack on the BLM in trying to reduce its capabilities. I 
think we have not been able to realize the full potential of 
what more of those jobs could achieve, especially if they were 
dispersed across the West and were committed to protecting our 
public lands, and looking at things like outdoor recreation and 
all the uses on BLM lands.
    I hope there is a path forward where we can find a solution 
that restores a fully functioning agency, while allowing the 
BLM staff to work close to the lands they manage. As you 
consider this important issue, I am hoping you will commit to 
keeping an open dialogue and working with us western Senators.
    Ms. Haaland. I'll absolutely keep an open dialogue and if 
you're inviting me to Colorado, I gracefully accept.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Hickenlooper. That was my next question. We would 
love to get you out to Grand Junction and let you see the BLM 
land out there, but also see the new headquarters and what it 
looks like.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator. I'll look forward to 
consulting more on this issue with you and I understand that we 
absolutely need to make sure that the staff members are, you 
know, that we have a full team there at BLM. And you probably 
know this already, 90 percent of Interior employees are 
actually outside of DC. So they're all over the place.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Hickenlooper. And we applaud that. We applaud that.
    Thank you so much.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    The Committee will stand in recess until tomorrow morning 
at 10:00 a.m., in the same room that we are in today.
    [Whereupon, at 11:55 a.m. the Committee recessed, to 
reconvene at 10:00 a.m., Wednesday, February 24, 2021.]
    [Additional material submitted for the record for Day 1 
follows Day 2 of the hearing.]


                          HAALAND NOMINATION

                                 DAY 2

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:07 a.m. in 
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin 
III, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA

    The Chairman. The Committee will come to order.
    We are going to resume consideration of the nomination of 
Representative Debra Haaland to be the Secretary of the 
Interior. We had a very good hearing yesterday until we had to 
recess for votes, and all but two of our members had a chance 
to ask one round of questions before the recess. In addition, a 
number of members asked for a second round of questions, and 
Congresswoman Haaland graciously agreed to return and answer 
questions today, and we appreciate that very much.
    We appreciate your courtesy in accommodating us, and we are 
going to pick up where we left off yesterday by recognizing 
Senator Kelly, and we will follow up with Senator Risch before 
we start our second round of questioning.
    Senator Kelly.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to 
echo your comments from yesterday about the historic nature of 
Congresswoman Haaland's nomination. There has never been a 
Native American at the helm of the Department of the Interior 
before, so I ask unanimous consent to add to the record several 
letters of support from Arizona tribal governments, endorsing 
Congresswoman Haaland's nomination.
    The Chairman. Without objection.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you.
    [Letters of support for Ms. Haaland's nomination follow:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Kelly. Congresswoman, I would like to ask you about 
drought in the Colorado River. As you know, the Secretary of 
the Interior is called the watermaster of the Lower Colorado 
River. If confirmed, you would have extraordinary authority, 
through the Bureau of Reclamation, to curtail water deliveries 
from Lake Mead to Arizona, to California, and to Nevada during 
years of severe drought. The President has not yet nominated a 
Commissioner for the Bureau of Reclamation, but what are your 
thoughts on increasing resources from DOI to expand reservoir 
capacity, water recycling, and groundwater management in 
Colorado River states?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, thank you so much for the question. 
And living in the Southwest, I realize and understand how 
important water is and sometimes how little there is of it. We 
know that water is the lifeblood of the West and the Southwest 
and I know that we're experiencing severe droughts currently. 
So it's important for us to pay attention to this issue. It's 
important for us to conserve, to think about ways we can 
conserve water. Water recycling is a great way to do that.
    I know that it's best if we seek consensus, you know, 
consensus-based solutions to these issues. I have said many 
times yesterday that I will absolutely consult with you and 
with all the members of this Committee. It's important. 
Congress is a co-equal branch of government. So I think if we 
work together, of course, we can find ways to find solutions to 
some of these issues and yes, I understand how important water 
is to Arizona.
    Senator Kelly. Native American water settlements are also a 
significant issue for Arizona tribal communities. Would you be 
willing to prioritize the completion and full funding of 
existing and future Indian water settlements?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I know that that's also extremely 
important, and I look so forward to working with you on these 
issues, but I know there are several water settlements 
currently in New Mexico as well. It would be nice to get those 
done.
    Senator Kelly. You know, the Grand Canyon is a very special 
place for our entire nation, not just Arizona. Yesterday, 
Senator Sinema and I introduced legislation to permanently ban 
uranium mining on federal land outside of the boundary of the 
Grand Canyon--outside of Grand Canyon National Park. I know you 
are familiar with this issue. Can we count on your support for 
a permanent ban on uranium mining?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I look forward, again, to discussing 
this issue with you. I realize that there are people who live 
nearby there and it would be important for us, with any mining, 
to make sure that it doesn't harm people, that health and 
safety are top priorities and that the sacredness of the Grand 
Canyon and other historical places are protected.
    Senator Kelly. The Havasupai Tribe relies on water that 
could be potentially contaminated by uranium mining if that was 
allowed around the Grand Canyon. So thank you.
    I yield back the remainder of my time.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    And now we have Senator Risch.
    Senator Risch. Thank you, Senator Manchin.
    Ms. Haaland, good morning. Did you or do you now support 
the Biden action and the Administration's action of shutting 
down the Keystone Pipeline on his first day in office?
    Ms. Haaland. Excuse me, Senator. Thank you for the 
question.
    I feel very confident that the President, his decision, I 
mean, I have to respect it, sir. He is the President of the 
United States and I realize that these are some of the things 
that he talked about when he was running for office and I 
believe that those are some of the reasons why he was elected. 
I know that President Biden cares deeply about our environment. 
He also cares about jobs, though. And so I know his Build Back 
Better plan is going to work, if we can all work together to 
create millions of jobs and I look forward to helping him move 
his plan forward.
    Senator Risch. Do you support his decision to shut down the 
Keystone Pipeline? That is a simple yes or no. I got a 
filibuster, but I would like a yes or no.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator. I will tend to support 
President Biden's positions and if I am confirmed as Secretary, 
it is his agenda that I would seek to move forward.
    Senator Risch. Do you support closing down the Keystone 
Pipeline?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I will just say that I support 
President Biden's agenda.
    Senator Risch. Do you support shutting down the Keystone 
Pipeline?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, if I say that I support President 
Biden's agenda, I assume that you could take my answer as a 
yes.
    Senator Risch. Thank you.
    And could you tell me why that is?
    Ms. Haaland. Well, one of the reasons why is that I support 
President Biden. I think he's thought deeply about these things 
and I think that he cares deeply about our environment and I do 
as well.
    Senator Risch. And you told me that you did support his 
shutting down the Keystone Pipeline, but I am looking for your 
reasons why you think that is a good idea.
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I'm not sure that I have a full 
answer for you other than to say that I know that there are a 
lot of people in this country who care deeply about our 
environment and that is one area that folks have been 
passionate about. I know there's a lot of passion on both sides 
of the issue.
    Senator Risch. Yes, there sure is, particularly people who 
have lost their jobs as a result of that and are losing good 
high-paying jobs for that. One of the reasons I am pressing you 
on this is I am having real trouble reconciling that with the 
fact that we cannot get the Administration to move to shut down 
the Nord Stream 2 Pipeline. The last Administration, we pushed 
and pushed and they did get it shut down, but now the Russians 
have found other ways around it. They are trying to complete 
it. Congress, on a bipartisan basis, has passed legislation to 
urge the Administration to use the sanctions that we said were 
required and shut down the Nord Stream 2 construction and yet 
the Administration will not do that.
    How do you square shutting down jobs in the energy sector 
in the United States, but yet, permitting and indeed 
encouraging jobs in the energy sector in Russia? It doesn't 
make sense to me.
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, it's my understanding that there's 
only a pause on the new leases--the new gas and oil leases 
currently. The existing valid leases are moving forward. 
Permitting is moving forward. I understand that. I know that 
the Department currently is moving those permits forward. I 
don't know all the particulars of every permit that's been 
signed, but I know that President Biden isn't looking to shut 
everything down. The existing permits and leases will continue.
    Senator Risch. Yes, but no new ones.
    Ms. Haaland. There is a pause on the new ones, sir.
    Senator Risch. For how long?
    Ms. Haaland. I couldn't tell you that. As soon as the 
review is done of the fossil fuel program in the Federal 
Government, it looks like the pause will be lifted.
    Senator Risch. Well----
    Ms. Haaland. But I don't have particularly any specificity 
on that.
    Senator Risch. Well back to the issue on the Russian 
Pipeline. It would seem to me that the Administration could 
spend a good amount of its energy on stopping those jobs in 
Russia, which is a national security issue for us. And yet 
instead they are using their energy to do this to American 
workers, which just doesn't seem logical sitting here looking 
at it as it is. Well, if I might have just a couple more 
minutes?
    Ms. Haaland, as I look around the Committee here, mostly 
western states here--all have large tracts of public lands, as 
I am sure you do in your state also. And I cannot tell you how 
important those are to us. Over the years, we have gone through 
constant wrestling with the Federal Government on the use of 
those lands. In Idaho, we have been successful in doing 
collaboration on the ground. We have a national--we have a 
roadless rule in Idaho which was put together by us, by 
Idahoans, on a bipartisan basis. Other than Colorado, we are 
the only one in the United States. Again, we have had the 
United States Government pushing on us, trying to get around 
that after time has moved on and we are holding on to it.
    But I hope that you will, when you are confirmed, work with 
us on a local basis, on the ground, instead of sending us 
directives from DC. It is a real problem for those of us that 
have these large tracts of public lands.
    Thank you very much. My time is up. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Congresswoman Haaland, yesterday you committed to Senator 
King to review the Methane Waste Prevention Rule. The majority 
of that rule was nullified by a district court judge last 
summer, and the fact of the matter is, there is just far too 
much methane that is being emitted. We all know that. In 2019, 
oil and gas operations onshore, on federal lands, vented or 
flared almost 75 billion cubic feet of methane. That was an 83 
percent increase from 2015 levels. This is especially troubling 
because venting and flaring of methane can be prevented. We 
know that. That does not happen on private lands.
    So I started asking questions. Why are we wasting this 
product? Why would any company, in good conscience, let that 
much value go up in the air when they could be selling it and 
putting it in the product line? Their problem was this: we 
cannot get permits to put in the pipelines to take the methane 
off property. The only thing I am saying is, if we have this 
resource, we are using this resource. We are going to need an 
ability to have a permitting process that is going to allow us 
to take the methane off, rather than polluting it, because they 
have legal leases they are working on.
    So the only thing I would ask you is, will you work with us 
on finding a pathway forward to make this a reality and not 
vent 75 billion cubic feet of methane?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I would be happy to work with you on 
this issue. I know that millions of dollars go up every year 
that could be spent on our public schools. Certainly in New 
Mexico, that's been the case. We do need to reduce the methane 
pollution and, of course, that can create jobs, absolutely, and 
also care for our climate.
    So I appreciate that. I think benefiting the taxpayers is 
always a good idea and I would be happy to help find solutions 
to that issue.
    The Chairman. Well, the main thing is the permitting 
process. We are going to need help on them, and I am going to 
ask you to work with us on that, to make sure that we can get 
this and not vent it or flare it. I think it would be 
tremendous for the environment, tremendously helpful.
    I want to get facts on the record to make sure that we are 
working from the same page. It is my understanding that the oil 
and gas industry continues to hold 26 million acres under lease 
onshore and 12 million acres offshore. Nearly 53 percent of 
those acres onshore and over 77 percent of those offshore are 
unused and non-producing. So they have the leases in hand. They 
just have never produced them. I have defended President Biden 
saying he wants to take a pause. I think we need to look at 
this inventory and find out what their intentions are for the 
leases they are holding. Approximately 7,700 oil and gas 
permits are approved, but currently unused. With these APDs in 
hand, companies have obtained the necessary authorizations they 
need to begin operations of their choosing. We have not shut 
anybody down. We are not stopping anybody. I want people to 
know that.
    It is also my understanding that the executive action taken 
by the President put the pause on gas and oil leases to allow 
the new Administration to review the leasing program, which I 
have asked for also. I want to know the determination of what 
the terms of these leases are, how much they are paying for 
these leases, and why they are holding so many with non-
productive status. I believe it is prudent to conduct a review 
of this leasing process, and I want to work with you.
    So my question would be, will any company with existing 
leases, as you understand, still be able to apply for the 
permits, or begin operations based on the existing permits they 
have, the APDs, on those existing leases, including those that 
are currently non-producing? So if I have 2,000 leases, and I 
am only producing 1,000 of them, could I move to my next leases 
without running into interference on that from the government 
agency or the Department of the Interior?
    Ms. Haaland. Chairman, thank you so much for the question. 
It is my--and now I'm not at the Department yet, so I don't 
know every single issue--however, it's my understanding that 
yes, permits are still moving through. I know that each permit 
might require something different with respect to how they're 
reviewing it, but it is my understanding that they are moving 
those through and I agree with you that a review is a good idea 
and----
    The Chairman. Well, we are going to bring the companies in 
and find out if there is going to be a reach back to where they 
are putting additional regulations in place, and companies will 
not be able to use the leases they have already obtained 
legally after going through the permitting process. We want to 
make sure there is a fairness to it. And if we have better ways 
to improve our environment in doing that, such as pipelines 
taking methane off, no methane flaring, and things of this 
sort, but give them some kind of a reprieve, then there is a 
possible way of doing everything that we need to do and make it 
much healthier for the environment and our climate.
    So, with that, my time has expired, and I will go to 
Senator Barrasso.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Representative, yesterday when discussing the effects that 
President Biden's ban on oil and gas leasing have had on 
workers, you stated, you said, ``I feel like in the short-term, 
hopefully, their jobs have not been affected.'' You just made 
that statement yesterday. Their jobs are being affected now. I 
have a letter from the Northern Arapaho Business Council in 
Wyoming--I don't know if you are familiar with the members of 
the Northern Arapaho Tribe in Wyoming--and they are opposing 
the President's ban on leasing. The Northern Arapaho Business 
Council letter states, ``Delays in leasing have already,'' 
already, ``negatively impacted small to mid-sized operators. 
The longer the orders remain in place the more revenue will 
decline and result in additional blows to our economy, the oil 
and gas workforce, and to Wyoming's education system.''
    So, Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter this 
letter into the record of the hearing today. Thank you.
    [Letter from the Northern Arapaho Business Council 
follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Senator Barrasso. Next, I would ask that my chart be put up 
on the screen so you have a chance to see it. I also have a 
copy of it behind me.
    [The chart displayed follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Barrasso. You have stated that you are 
``wholeheartedly against fracking and drilling on public 
lands.'' You have said that ``we need to keep fossil fuels in 
the ground.'' You have also stated that you oppose all fossil 
fuel infrastructure. If confirmed, President Biden is likely to 
ask you, specifically, whether he should extend the ban on oil 
and gas and coal leasing on federal lands and waters. Now, you 
have said repeatedly that President Biden's agenda is your 
agenda. But what this Committee wants to know is how you will 
advise him. How will you act, because you are the principal 
role of Secretary of the Interior, so how will you advise him 
and will you encourage the President to extend the 60-day ban 
on leasing or not?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Ranking Member, I appreciate the 
question.
    And yes, I will reiterate again, President Biden's agenda 
would be my agenda, if I am confirmed. I recognize that roles 
are different. The role of a Congresswoman in one district in 
the country is much different than the role of a Secretary, who 
is fighting and working for every single American and all of 
our public lands across the country. Those are two different 
things. I recognize that. I want to make sure that, if I'm 
confirmed, that we're looking at things and working to strike 
the right balance. We need to care as much about the 
environment as we do about the fossil fuel infrastructure in 
your state, in other states. We need to balance those 
priorities. And I feel that yes, sometimes it might seem like a 
tricky sort of balancing act, but I think, I feel very strongly 
that if we have a mind to protect our public lands for future 
generations, that we'll also be able to protect jobs for future 
generations as well.
    I am very much excited about the opportunities that lie 
ahead and Chairman Manchin and I have spoken about this, the 
technology opportunities, the innovative opportunities for 
workers across this country. And I think there are a lot of 
workers who want to have jobs of the future. And so, what I 
would like to do is just make sure that I am doing everything I 
can to help President Biden in his Build Back Better plan to 
create millions of jobs across the country.
    Senator Barrasso. Well, let's talk about those workers and 
their jobs for the future because in 2018 you campaigned on 
eliminating oil and gas production in New Mexico and you were 
specifically asked how you would make up for the loss of oil 
and gas royalties, which the state uses to fund public schools, 
and your answer was, you would vote to legalize cannabis. That 
was your answer. And that you said if we legalize cannabis and 
we have a new funding stream for our education system, that 
will help tremendously. That was your statement. Do you still 
believe that states should replace oil and gas royalties used 
for public education with taxes on the sale of marijuana? Is 
that your position?
    Ms. Haaland. Well, I think the point of that, Ranking 
Member, was to say that we should diversify our funding streams 
for education and not just rely on one.
    Senator Barrasso. So is selling marijuana among what the 
Biden Administration calls better choices that the Biden 
Administration has promised to give displaced oil and gas 
workers? Is that the better choice, marijuana?
    Ms. Haaland. Ranking Member, I honestly don't know what 
President Biden's stance is on cannabis, currently.
    Senator Barrasso. But we know what your stance is on 
replacing the revenue from the energy jobs, the jobs that power 
our economy and the energy that powers our country, and your 
preference is to turn to drugs--is what you have recommended to 
the voters. At a time when we know when there is high 
unemployment and energy workers lose their jobs, we have seen 
it in West Virginia, we have seen it around the country. There 
has been an opioid crisis in this nation. And yet, what I hear 
from you is, the answer in a ``better-choice world'' is 
marijuana.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you, Representative Haaland, for being here with 
us again today.
    I wanted to pick up a little bit from where we left off 
yesterday. We were talking about national monuments. I think it 
is important for us to remember that, as I mentioned yesterday, 
a disproportionate share of all national monuments that have 
been designated on land in the United States over the last 25 
years, about 28 percent, as I recall, have been designated in 
Utah. In the past, we have had reforms made to the Antiquities 
Act, at times when one state or another has been picked on, 
relentlessly and disproportionately. One significant reform 
occurred in 1950, when Congress reacted to a decision made a 
few years earlier by President Franklin D. Roosevelt when he 
proclaimed the Jackson Hole National Monument after Congress 
had declined to expand the Grand Teton National Park. And he 
undertook similar action by Presidential proclamation under the 
Antiquities Act.
    So Congress responded to that and basically exempted 
Wyoming out of future national monument designations. He had 
Congress responding again a few decades later in 1980 and 
making significant Antiquities Act reforms specific to the 
State of Alaska, which had found itself the victim of excessive 
national monument designation. This had occurred after 
President Jimmy Carter had proclaimed 15 new national 
monuments, even after Congress had adjourned without passing a 
major Alaska lands bill that was strongly opposed within the 
state. And so there is something of a pattern of overreaction 
by Presidential administrations to declare new monuments in a 
manner contrary to the wishes of the host state. Congress 
eventually reacts and responds.
    We talked a little bit yesterday about the ping-pong 
effect, the fact that one of the unfortunate things about this 
is that there is a tug of war in which the status of the 
Antiquities Act monument designations in these states can 
easily become something of a ping-pong ball. It has not 
occurred a lot in the past, but the trend has now begun where 
you have seen one president designate a monument, another 
president restricts that monument's size, and then you now see 
a move by the Biden Administration to expand perhaps to--or 
some have suggested even in excess of--the original boundaries 
of the Bears Ears National Monument or the Grand Staircase-
Escalantes National Monument. There is, understandably, a good 
reason for us to explore a legislative solution.
    Could you understand, however, why some of us might be 
concerned about legislatively designating one or more of these 
national monuments without some type of protection for our 
state, limiting for the future the amount of national monuments 
that could be designated by Presidential proclamation or, 
alternatively, could you understand why it would be difficult 
for us to negotiate with that without some kind of actual deal, 
some kind of protection and assurance that we will not end up 
losing the whole negotiation anyway, as long as the President, 
made through the stroke of the Presidential pen, can undo all 
of our negotiations?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I completely understand. I understand 
and I respect your position, and I can't fully understand 
because I'm not you and Utah is not my state, but I do respect 
your position. And I want you to know that I am, if I am 
confirmed, I am ready to sit down and talk with you and the 
stakeholders in Utah. I know that tribal nations--it's their 
ancestral homeland in some respects. I would be honored to get 
everyone together and talk about these issues. But I want you 
to know that I fully, fully respect your position and I want to 
perhaps work to find a solution. And I truly do understand what 
you're saying and I appreciate your sharing that with me.
    Senator Lee. So if you are confirmed, would you be willing 
to come to my state, before any action is taken on the 
Antiquities Act in my state, and meet with some groups of 
people you might not otherwise hear from--meet with groups of 
people who, I believe, have not been listened to as much in the 
past?
    Ms. Haaland. I absolutely would, Senator. I would never 
pass up an opportunity to go to Utah.
    Senator Lee. What do you think we can do about multiple 
use? Multiple use was the objective of FLPMA. It was the 
promise made. There are many occasions when management for 
multiple use really ends up just being restricted use. This 
often results in diminished economic activity on the part of 
states and especially within rural communities within public 
land states. What would you do to enhance multiple use and to 
make sure it actually happens?
    Ms. Haaland. Well, you've talked a lot, Senator Lee, about 
folks on the ground, about local communities weighing in on 
these things. And I know that multiple use is, yes, that is a 
tenet of our public lands and in some places you can have more 
multiple use, in other places you can't. So I look to strike 
that balance. I think it will be important.
    Senator Lee. And do you think that President Biden's 
decision to issue a moratorium on oil and gas leasing is 
consistent with principles of multiple use? And if so, how is 
that consistent? And what will you do to make sure that people 
have access to these things and also access to a critical 
mineral supply chain?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator Lee.
    The pause that President Biden has put on the new permits, 
pending review--the review is not going to last forever. The 
review will, as soon as it's done, of course, having that input 
with everyone, we'll be able to move forward after that. I 
think that this is just that--it's a pause. It's not going to 
be a permanent thing where we're saying we're restricting all 
these lands from something.
    Senator Lee. I appreciate that it is not permanent. If it 
is, in fact, not permanent, we would love to know how non-
permanent it is and roughly what the time horizon would look 
like. This has very significant impact. It might seem like an 
insignificant thing for someone who does not live there and 
whose job does not depend on it or whose job does not depend on 
someone else's job in that field. But for many of these 
communities, it is their lifeblood. I mean, it is also 
something upon which our national energy security often 
depends.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you very much, Senator.
    Senator Lee. Thank you.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    I want to profusely apologize. I skipped over our former 
esteemed Chairwoman, who ran this Committee so efficiently. 
Senator Cantwell.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chair, but I worked as 
Ranking Member. But, Mr. Chairman, I so appreciated your 
question on the methane rule, and I think people do not realize 
that a recent study found that life cycle emissions from oil, 
gas, and coal pulled from public lands and waters were 
equivalent to 20 percent of the total U.S. greenhouse 
emissions. So in perspective, that is like the fifth largest 
source of emissions in the world. That is more carbon pollution 
than is emitted by Japan, Brazil, and Germany. So that is what 
you are going to be the steward over. I am appreciative of what 
the President has done to try to get a handle on that. And just 
so we are clear, we are seeing the impacts, obviously, with 
wildfires, disasters, changes in weather, and all sorts of 
things. So again, I think NOAA said that climate disasters are 
$121 billion per year. These are big numbers, so I hope we get 
a good picture on that, and certainly appreciate what the 
Chairman said about the methane rule, because we do not need to 
be wasting methane and we do not need to be emitting that 
pollution.
    Just to be clear on the marijuana issue. This is not a 
Seattle issue. Out of 39 counties, 20 to 25 counties in the 
State of Washington supported legalizing cannabis. And so, I do 
not blame our legislature or others for getting revenue from 
that and putting it toward public health issues in the State of 
Washington. This is respecting the wishes of the voters, and 
then putting it to good use.
    I do want to go back to the questioning of yesterday, 
because I talked about public lands as a great economic engine 
for us as a nation, and I was a little frustrated at the end of 
the last year. First of all, this Committee leadership, 
Chairman Manchin, Senator Daines, Senator Wyden, Senator King, 
myself, and others, led a big effort on the Great American 
Outdoors Act with our colleagues, Senator Alexander and Senator 
Gardner. We want to know that you are going to provide the 
leadership and investment in the infrastructure upgrade that we 
are looking for, for our national parks. In the Chairman's 
case, the New River Gorge, I think it is one of--he knows that 
I like to go to the Dolly Sods, but----
    The Chairman. Not that far.
    Senator Cantwell. The New River Gorge is one of the oldest 
rivers in the United States. So upgrading that protection was 
critical, and now we need to make investments there. Making 
investments in Mount Rainier National Park is very important to 
us, and Olympic National Park. We have a 50-year-old water 
treatment system that needs to be upgraded. We have campgrounds 
and walkways in Mount Rainier that need to be upgraded. I want 
to make sure that under your leadership, you are going to make 
sure that those dollars get spent as we have envisioned them, 
and that you are going to make this a priority within the 
agency.
    Ms. Haaland. I absolutely will, Senator Cantwell, thank 
you.
    Senator Cantwell. On the other side of that equation, I am 
very frustrated by what Secretary Bernhardt did on the way out 
the door. I mean, talk about thwarting Congress. Congress, in a 
bipartisan fashion, said we want permanent funding for the Land 
and Water Conservation Fund, and then he tried to do some 
damaging things to try to prevent us from doing that. So I want 
to make sure that you will be seeking the full $900 million in 
mandatory spending for LWCF.
    Ms. Haaland. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    On the issue of PILT--Payment in Lieu of Taxes--I do not 
know New Mexico's numbers, but I am assuming you are familiar 
with that issue. This is critical to many counties in my state, 
and I think we have been thinking about ways that PILT might be 
able to be expanded to states that also have national wildlife 
refuges, that is to say, the outdoor recreation opportunities 
that are supported there. Would you be willing to work with us 
in looking at ways to expand PILT to help compensate states for 
outdoor recreation opportunities and things that help increase 
the security of our nation's wildlife refuges?
    Ms. Haaland. Payments in Lieu of Taxes is extremely 
important. I'm committed to making it stronger and, of course, 
I'd be open to ideas on how to improve that.
    Senator Cantwell. If we are looking at this plan and we are 
trying to figure out how to help our public lands, USGS 
estimated between 2005 and 2014, federal lands sequestered 
approximately 15 percent of CO2 emissions that 
resulted from extraction of fossil fuels on federal land. Is 
there a way for us to look at other ways to continually 
incentivize the sequestration efforts, whether that is through 
our forests or other ideas? Should we be looking at that as 
well?
    Ms. Haaland. Absolutely.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you. Well, we will look forward to 
following up on that.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Cantwell.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And Chairman, if I just could--I am sorry, I know we are 
out of time. I am out of time. I have 12 seconds. But, the 
Congresswoman shared an important story with me prior to the 
hearing. I do not know if she can recount it in a few minutes, 
but there are people in Indian Country all over the United 
States that are so proud of her nomination, and I do not even 
know how we can explain adequately enough how much they are 
tuning in and looking at this moment. They feel like they have 
been good stewards of public land for centuries before us. And 
so they are so excited about her nomination. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Daines.
    Senator Daines. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Haaland, welcome back.
    Ms. Haaland. Good morning.
    Senator Daines. I wanted to talk about the issue of 
critical minerals as it relates to renewable energy. The 
Democratic Republic of the Congo, which is known for abysmal 
human rights and horrible environmental standards, produce the 
vast majority of cobalt for the world which, of course, as you 
know, is used for batteries in electric vehicles, renewable 
energy. The U.S. is relying on China as well for dozens of 
critical minerals and rare earth elements that are used in 
renewable energy. Yet, they have a long track record of shady 
environmental standards, labor standards, as well as extensive 
human rights abuses. In order to produce the wind, the solar 
and storage technology that we will need going forward, we will 
need raw materials that must be mined and extracted from the 
earth.
    You have previously introduced legislation that would 
increase costs and lengthen permitting for hardrock mining. My 
question is how do you plan to source raw materials for 
renewable energy if the policies you have supported are 
actually moving mining operations overseas?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, thank you so much for the question. 
As I have said several times before, I recognize that the role 
of Secretary, a Cabinet Secretary, is far different from that 
of a Congresswoman. And so I recognize that it's--I'm not just 
worried about my one district in New Mexico, but the entire 
country. I agree that we need to mine responsibly. We also need 
to be able to ensure that we have that independence into the 
future. Senator, this Earth provides us with every single thing 
we need and it has for millennia. And I feel very strongly that 
if we take a lot of care to make sure that we are doing 
everything we can, we can have those jobs well into the future. 
Our grandchildren should be able to rely on what they get from 
the earth as much as we do.
    Senator Daines. I appreciate the comment that you have been 
representing your constituents in the past and now you have a 
position where you will represent all of our country. Some of 
the prior positions you have taken--opposed to Keystone, 
opposed Dakota Pipeline, protesting there, calling for bans on 
trapping on all public lands, stopping energy on all public 
lands--clearly impact more people than just your constituents. 
So I am not convinced that you will be taking that view forward 
because you have certainly been taking some very strong 
positions that clearly impact folks outside the first district 
of New Mexico.
    I want to put up Chart 2 and talk about some hunting and 
sportsmen's issues, if I could.
    [The chart displayed follows:]
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    Senator Daines. On July 5, 2019, you called for a ban on 
all public land trapping. About 6,000 Montanans are trappers, 
including several in our tribal communities. If confirmed, will 
you restrict or ban trapping on public lands?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, if I'm confirmed, of course, I will 
look at the science. I will consult with everyone who I need to 
consult with. I don't intend to go in and start making rules 
that, I mean, I think there are processes----
    Senator Daines. So did you look at the science and the data 
before you came out with a statement of being opposed to 
trapping on all public lands?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, at the time I made that statement, my 
constituents were concerned about that issue and that is one 
that I made accordingly.
    Senator Daines. Yes, well, thank you for that. And I will 
tell you my constituents back home also have concerns with 
statements like that. It has been a heritage in our state, as 
well as across many of our tribal communities, of allowing 
trapping on our public lands. It is also an important 
conservation tool because modern trapping practices allow you 
to trap an animal and release it safely for the sake of 
collaring and so forth.
    Put up Chart 1, if you would, please.
    [The chart displayed follows:]
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    Senator Daines. Semi-automatic rifles are certainly a 
popular choice for hunting, for shooting, target practice, all 
of which are a part of our western heritage. On September 23, 
2020, you called for a ban on some semi-automatic rifles. Given 
your call to ban some sporting rifles, why should Congress 
believe that you will work to protect and expand shooting and 
hunting opportunities on our public lands?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator.
    Well, I am a Pueblo woman, as I mentioned yesterday. We 
have been hunting wild game for centuries. In fact, that's the 
reason I am sitting here today, is because my ancestors 
sustained themselves through those practices. As a child, many, 
many times, my dad, my grandparents, my brother, they all hunt 
and, in fact, I was fortunate to harvest an oryx from the White 
Sands Missile Range several years back. It fed my family for 
about a year. I understand that and I absolutely respect the 
sportsmen and the anglers whose traditions those are.
    Senator Daines. Regarding anglers, in 2020, you voted to 
allow a future administration to regulate ammo or fishing 
tackle, much like the Obama Administration did when they banned 
lead ammo and tackle on public lands. Do you support a ban on 
lead ammo and tackle on public lands?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you so much, Senator.
    I look forward to looking into that issue, consulting with 
the experts. I know there are a number of scientists at the 
Department of the Interior. If I'm confirmed, that will 
absolutely be a conversation that we have.
    Senator Daines. And I do hope you will respect the science. 
I know there were some unfortunate comments made yesterday 
about Republicans not believing in science and I respectfully 
would disagree. I am a chemical engineer. We have some 
physicians on this Committee as well on the Republican side of 
the aisle. And I hope you will think about retracting that 
unfortunate comment that was made yesterday.
    If you will put up Chart 3.
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    Senator Daines. On May 10, 2019, you co-sponsored 
legislation designating seven million acres of wilderness in 
Montana without getting any local input or even visiting these 
areas. During our meeting, when I asked you if the 30 by 30 
initiative incorporated public land grazing and sportsmen's 
access, you responded, ``wilderness designations still provide 
access to hunting.'' And that is entirely accurate, I agree 
with you on that. But you did not speak about the issue of 
grazing, which I know is a big issue for our ranchers across 
Montana.
    Wilderness designations can, in fact, hinder sportsmens' 
access and create challenges for authorized grazing. 
Additionally, wilderness designations preclude new grazing 
authorization, even when grazing is an effective conservation 
tool. Can you tell me if you believe that grazing qualifies as 
a part of conservation?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I know how important grazing is. My 
sister, as I mentioned yesterday, she has a ranching family, 
and they rely on grazing their cattle in order to feed their 
families. I understand how important that is. Senator, I would 
be more than happy to, if I'm confirmed, to absolutely speak 
with the experts, talk with you, speak with stakeholders to 
look at this issue and to understand it more fully. I am not at 
the Department as of yet, but I can guarantee you that I'd be 
happy to look into that issue.
    Senator Daines. You are the author of the 30 by 30 
initiative in the House. As the primary leader there, this 
initiative has been extremely sparse on details. Does this 
initiative pertain to just public land or all U.S. lands?
    The Chairman. Senator, if we could kind of move it along.
    Senator Daines. Okay, right. Thanks.
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, the 30 by 30 initiative that 
President Biden has embraced will be an opportunity for so many 
Americans to participate in conserving that amount of land and 
water. It's not just relegated to public lands, but I 
understand that private landowners, Indian Tribes--it's an 
opportunity for everyone to work together.
    Senator Daines. All right. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    We will go to Senator Hirono. I think she is with us.
    Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Yes, I am. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Hirono. Congresswoman, thank you for our 
conversation yesterday. I heard my Republican colleagues claim 
that the Biden Administration's efforts to address climate 
change and transition our country from relying heavily on 
fossil fuels to generating more renewable energy are going to 
kill jobs, and that those efforts, somehow, go against the very 
mission of the Interior Department. In fact, I would argue that 
addressing climate change and creating clean energy jobs for 
the American people both fit squarely within the Department's 
mission, and I am quoting, ``the Department of the Interior 
conserves and manages the nation's natural resources and 
cultural heritage for the benefit and enjoyment of the American 
people, provides scientific and other information about natural 
resources and natural hazards to address societal challenges 
and create opportunities for the American people, and honors 
the nation's trust, responsibilities, and special commitments 
to American Indians, Alaska Natives, and affiliated Island 
communities, to help them prosper.'' Conversely, nowhere does 
it state it is the Department's mission to maintain or increase 
oil and gas extraction.
    Yesterday, my colleagues on the other side of the aisle 
repeatedly brought up previous statements that you have made on 
social media, or bills that you sponsored in the House, to 
argue that your prior positions, prior actions, and policy 
positions, which you took in the interest of your constituents, 
just like we on the Committee do every day, are radical, and 
make you unqualified for the position. Yet the prior Secretary 
of Interior, David Bernhardt, who previously lobbied on behalf 
of the fossil fuel industry, literally had to carry around a 
card with a list of groups that he had to avoid in order to 
comply with ethics. He had some major conflicts of interest 
going on during his tenure as Secretary of Interior.
    It is no surprise that his actions, the actions he took as 
Interior Secretary, routinely benefited the fossil fuel 
industry, with which he had been long associated. But I do not 
recall my Republican colleagues asking whether Mr. Bernhardt 
would keep an open mind about other energy sources. Meanwhile, 
we have heard you, Congresswoman, assure us that you will be 
fair and open, that it is not your goal to get rid of jobs that 
rely on fossil fuels, and that you would create other jobs. So 
we should be focused on the opportunity for America to be a 
leader, to lead in addressing climate change, to lead in 
renewable energy, technology development and innovation, to 
lead in protecting our resources for generations to come. 
Congresswoman, you are someone who knows about future 
generations, considering that you are the 35th generation of 
your tribe.
    We need to think sustainability, not just continuing heavy 
reliance on fossil fuels, knowing that climate change is and 
will continue to cost our country billions of dollars each year 
if we continue down our current path. And we in Hawaii, of 
course, know the impact of climate change because we are, as an 
island state, the tip of the spear in what is happening with 
climate change, global warming, ocean acidification, all of 
that.
    So, Congresswoman, considering that you will be required to 
navigate your way through very strongly held opposing views, as 
shown by the questions that you have been asked in your 
hearing, what motivates you to want to be Secretary of Interior 
and serve our country in that capacity?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator Hirono, for that question 
and, I mean, let me just say this, if I could take the liberty 
of the story that Senator Cantwell mentioned regarding me 
today. One of my dear friends in Iyanbito Navajo Nation, Albert 
Shirley, he listens to this hearing on the radio, a radio I 
bought him that's powered by the sun because he doesn't have 
electricity. And he texted me this morning and said the name--
the Navajo Code Talkers--the first word they decided to use 
when they were working on the code was ``ne-he-mah,'' and that 
means ``our mother'' and that was the code they used for the 
United States of America.
    And I feel very strongly that that sums up what we're 
dealing with. This is all of our country. This is our mother. 
You've heard the Earth referred to as Mother Earth. It's 
difficult to not feel obligated to protect this land, and I 
feel that every indigenous person in this country understands 
that, which is why we have such a high rate of our people who 
serve in the military. We want to protect this country, and 
that means protecting it in every single way and ensuring that 
those jobs, that sustenance, the opportunities for our children 
and grandchildren to learn and grow in this beautiful country--
that we keep that for many generations to come. It's an 
obligation of mine that I take very seriously, and that is 
really, I guess, giving you a perspective of why I feel that I 
would be honored to be confirmed and help President Biden to 
move this country forward in many, many ways with respect to 
the Department of the Interior.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Next we have Senator Murkowski.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And good morning, Representative Haaland.
    Ms. Haaland. Good morning.
    Senator Murkowski. Yesterday, when I began my questions, I 
spoke about the significance of the Department of the Interior 
and the role that the Interior Department has over Alaska lands 
because of our structure. And it is probably too small for you 
here, but you have seen it because I provided you with many of 
the maps. It is a patchwork of color, but that color all 
represents the federally managed lands that we have, and it is 
significant and it is a big part of my job and it would be an 
incredibly big part of your job, should you be confirmed as 
Secretary of the Interior.
    [The map displayed follows:]
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    Senator Murkowski. I mentioned yesterday that in the 
initial Secretarial Order--there were seven mentions of Alaska 
in the Executive Orders and the Secretarial Orders that 
specifically call us out for enhanced review, pause--the most 
significant of those, truly, is the Willow Project up in the 
National Petroleum Reserve, an area that was designated by 
Congress specifically for its resource opportunity. The Willow 
Project is very significant right now in terms of its promise. 
The EA, the Environmental Analysis, that was developed using 
the integrated activity plan--this was done under the Obama 
Administration. The final ROD was issued last fall. Now it is 
part of this pause.
    This is, again, probably the most promising area that we 
have for us. It is recognized as the job creator coming on in a 
state that has just been devastated, not only by COVID, but by 
all of the other economic factors that have come at us. Labor 
and Alaska Native groups have come out strongly in support. And 
I would like to submit a couple of the letters for the record 
here.
    [Letters for the record follow:]
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    Senator Murkowski. My concern is that you have specifically 
called out this project. On May 4th of last year, you and four 
of your House colleagues signed a letter requesting then 
Secretary Bernhardt to act unilaterally to suspend further 
action on the Willow Master Development Plan. So the question 
is not necessarily why you signed it. You signed it. But what I 
need to know is, if you are confirmed, will you commit to 
allowing the Willow Project to proceed without additional 
changes or environmental review recognizing the trajectory that 
this project has been on and your role to be an impartial 
arbiter of permitting decisions on Willow and other similar 
projects?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, thank you for that question, and 
thank you for the packet you sent me. I read all the letters 
and I appreciate you providing me with that information. And 
yes, as we've mentioned before, I think being a Secretary is 
far different from being a Member of Congress. And so I do take 
that role very seriously. If I'm confirmed, I will absolutely 
consult with you. I understand how important your state is to 
you and I just want you to know that the opportunities to speak 
with you on these issues, the opportunities to speak with 
Alaska Native Corporations and Alaska Native people, will be 
absolutely important, and I appreciate that opportunity.
    And of course, I will follow the law. I know that 
permitting is moving forward currently in the Department and I 
will take it very seriously.
    Senator Murkowski. Well, this is not just important to me, 
this is important to the state for jobs. This is important to 
Alaska Natives. This is important, really, to the country. This 
is a significant project and if we cannot produce oil resources 
within the National Petroleum Reserve, it causes one to 
question--where?
    You mentioned ANCs, and this is an issue that I would like 
to raise with you. This is the 50th anniversary of ANCSA, the 
Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act. You are very, very well 
aware of that. You know that in Alaska we set things up 
differently as part of the settlement. We do not have the 
reservation, other than Metlakatla, as I mentioned. But we have 
a model that is significantly different. It is the alternative 
to the reservation system in the continental United States. 
ANCs are part of that tribal structure, along with our tribal 
health organizations, our village corporations. ANCs are not 
sovereign governments. They do not seek to be. But their unique 
structure allows for, really, true self determination and 
economic empowerment.
    I would like you to describe for me your understanding of 
tribal representation in Alaska and what role ANCs play because 
I have been concerned with some of the statements that you have 
made, press releases that you have signed onto, letters that 
you have signed onto that make me question whether you 
understand fully the role of ANCs within this framework that 
was established almost 50 years ago with regard to Alaska 
Native governance.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator Murkowski.
    And yes, I know that Alaska is a unique situation with the 
Alaska Native Corporations. I understand that there are also 
229 Alaska Native villages within those regions. I also 
understand that ANCs provide services--health services, social 
services--to the Alaska Native people and to that regard, yes, 
they're not like any other corporations, when we think of 
corporations. So I understand that's important. Of course, I am 
not a scholar of Alaska, but with your help I will absolutely 
learn more and be absolutely willing to make sure that Alaska 
Native people, whether through the Alaska Native Corporations 
or any other organizations, get the services that they need.
    Senator Murkowski. Well, thank you. We will follow up on 
that one because as you know, that is very, very key. It is not 
just related to CARES funding, it really is about the whole 
government structure and not losing the underpinnings that we 
have put in place for many decades.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am well over my time and I 
apologize to my colleagues.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. With that, we will go to 
Senator Hoeven.
    Senator Hoeven. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate 
it very much. And Congresswoman, thank you for your second day 
of testimony today.
    Yesterday I brought up the Dakota Access Pipeline (DAPL) to 
you and I mentioned that the Three Affiliated Tribes--the 
Mandan, Hidatsa and the Arikara--produce an incredible amount 
of oil. And in fact, they ship 300,000 barrels a day--300,000 
barrels a day of their production through the Dakota Access 
Pipeline. And the oil that they produce represents about 90 
percent of their revenues. So again, you know, this is what 
they use for their essential needs like education, healthcare, 
infrastructure and, really, so many other things. Now, I have a 
statement from them in regard to the Dakota Access Pipeline and 
I would ask that that it be included in the record, Mr. 
Chairman.
    The Chairman. Without objection.
    Senator Hoeven. All right.
    [Statement from the Three Affiliated Tribes follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Hoeven. So with that, Congresswoman, given that the 
Mandan, Hidatsa and Arikara Nation ships a significant portion 
of their oil through DAPL each day, wouldn't a shutdown of the 
pipeline have devastating economic consequences for them?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, if I understand the question, you're 
asking if the oil pipeline shuts down, if it will have a 
devastating effect. Senator, I would be more than happy to--I 
don't know the specificity of every single job there, but I can 
tell you that I would be more than dedicated to being briefed 
on that issue, if I am confirmed.
    Senator Hoeven. Well, they produce 300,000 barrels of oil a 
day. That represents 90 percent of the revenue and a 
significant amount of that oil goes through the pipeline, so 
wouldn't it follow that if that pipeline shut down, that is 
going to have a major economic impact on them?
    Ms. Haaland. I understand what you're saying, Senator, 
thank you.
    Senator Hoeven. Do you agree or disagree?
    Ms. Haaland. I don't disagree. I understand what you're 
saying. If something shuts down then jobs can be lost and I 
understand that. So thank you for sharing that with me.
    Senator Hoeven. Yes. Thank you, Congresswoman. Now, if you 
are confirmed, will you commit on behalf of the Administration 
to consult with the Three Affiliated Tribes about what DAPL 
means for the education, healthcare, infrastructure, and other 
services provided to tribal members? Will you commit to that 
consultation with the Three Affiliated Tribes?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator Hoeven, tribal consultation is 
mandated in this government and I would absolutely consult with 
tribes when issues are affecting them. And I also would just 
add on, Senator, that with respect to the Executive Order that 
the President signed, it does not affect tribal lands, it just 
affects public lands, the pause on the leases.
    Senator Hoeven. Right, Congresswoman, and that is a good 
point and an important point because it does affect federal 
lands, of which we have a significant amount in North Dakota. 
And in fact, last year, the Department of the Interior 
dispersed $66.7 million in revenue to the State of North Dakota 
for production on federal land. So it is a very important issue 
to us. I understand your point about the reservation. But the 
moratorium does affect our federal lands.
    So my question in regard to the federal lands, and first, 
would you expect imports of foreign oil to go up or down if we 
stop developing oil and gas on federal lands?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I would absolutely, if I'm confirmed, 
ask to be briefed on this issue and would be more than happy to 
continue a conversation with you on it.
    Senator Hoeven. If we do not produce the oil here then it 
is logical that we are going to import more from places like 
Russia, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and other places. Do you think 
their environmental standards are better than ours or not?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I am not altogether briefed on the 
environmental standards of other countries currently, but I am 
proud that here in the United States we have put the safety and 
health of our workers as a priority.
    Senator Hoeven. Are you committed to working with us on 
trying to advance things like carbon capture and storage in 
terms of the work that we are doing in which our state is the 
leader? Will you commit to work with us on that?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, it's my understanding that President 
Biden is open to many ideas about how we get to net zero. So I 
appreciate your ideas and look forward to speaking with you 
more and, of course, if I'm confirmed, I'd be willing to work 
with you.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Congresswoman, I appreciate it.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Next we have Senator Lankford.
    Senator Lankford. Chairman, thank you very much.
    Representative, good to see you again. Thanks for doing the 
second day of questions with us as well.
    As you know, we have 200,000 miles of petroleum pipeline 
already in the ground in America. We have 2.4 million miles of 
natural gas pipeline already in America. There is a 
conversation about adding new lines that has gone on here 
frequently. Let me talk about existing lines that are already 
there. Generally, would you agree that federal agencies should 
work with pipeline companies to be able to keep rights-of-way 
up to date to ensure access to those pipelines already in the 
ground?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator. It sounds like a 
reasonable idea.
    Senator Lankford. Okay. In your understanding, does the 
Department of the Interior have the authority to deny right-of-
way renewals for existing pipelines that are compliant with all 
applicable laws and regulations?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, where the Department of the Interior 
has the authority over such issues, they would absolutely be 
important, and if I'm confirmed, I will absolutely take a look 
at that and----
    Senator Lankford. Do you think that the Department of the 
Interior has the authority to deny an area where they already 
have an existing right-of-way, though? To go in and say there 
is an existing pipeline already in this area, as you know there 
are thousands of miles of pipeline that travel underneath 
federal lands right now. Do you believe the Department of the 
Interior has the authority to be able to go in and say you no 
longer have right-of-way in these areas on federal lands for 
existing pipelines?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, of course, I am not at the Department 
of the Interior currently. I can't fully answer that question, 
but I would be happy to speak with you, if I'm confirmed and, 
certainly, I'm sure the Department would be happy to give you 
an answer on that.
    Senator Lankford. But do you believe that the Department of 
the Interior should reevaluate existing pipelines under federal 
lands?
    Ms. Haaland. Again Senator, I can't answer that question 
because I don't know what the answer is, but if I am confirmed, 
of course, it's important to you. I would be happy to speak 
with you more.
    Senator Lankford. It is actually important to every 
American that wants to stay warm in the winter and for everyone 
that flies in a plane or drives a car. It becomes a pretty 
important issue because if we lose access to pipelines that are 
already in the ground that go through federal lands or have 
right-of-way, we lose access. And what happens is, all that 
energy then goes to truck traffic and goes to train traffic. Do 
you believe truck and train traffic moving energy is safer than 
a pipeline or do you think pipelines are safer than truck and 
train traffic?
    Ms. Haaland. Again, I wish I could answer that question. I 
don't know what the answer is, Senator. I haven't seen those 
statistics.
    Senator Lankford. I would go ahead and tell you that it is 
safer and less expensive to be able to move it in a pipeline 
than it is on truck traffic or in train traffic. But let me--we 
will talk about that in the future.
    The goal of the Endangered Species Act--we have had the 
opportunity to be able to talk about this. Do you believe the 
goal of the Endangered Species Act is to keep endangered 
species on the list or is it to graduate endangered species off 
the list?
    Ms. Haaland. I think the goal is to restore species. I 
think the goal is to work with communities to make sure that 
we're restoring those species so that they can survive.
    Senator Lankford. Yes, we have a wonderful little bug 
called the American burying beetle----
    Ms. Haaland. Yes.
    Senator Lankford [continuing]. That is in multiple 
different states. We have it a lot in Southeast Oklahoma. It 
was declared endangered and threatened before and we did a long 
study on it. It is a bug that lives underground and so we 
really did not know what the population was. So for five years 
there was a population study on the American burying beetle and 
after five years of study, they found out there are a lot more 
of those bugs out there than anyone ever thought and they are 
in a lot more places than anyone ever thought. And so, for five 
years that was the required study. The number exceeded every 
single year what the standard was to be able to set. So it 
should come off the list. Instead, there was a pause to say, 
but, in 50 years there could be a change in temperature and if 
there is a change in temperature 50 years from now, it could 
affect that species. And so, we are going to leave it on the 
list as threatened.
    So my question to you is, statistically, what do you 
believe about how we should handle endangered species, if they 
achieve all the population numbers, all the goals that were set 
to delist them? Should we maintain all those species to say, in 
the future they could be threatened, so we are going to leave 
them listed or should they be able to graduate off if they hit 
those lists and then if in 30, 40 years from now we start to 
see a population decline, to relist them?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator.
    And I know that it's important to look at the science when 
it comes to the Endangered Species Act.
    Senator Lankford. It is.
    Ms. Haaland. And I know that every listing is different. So 
what I would say is if I'm confirmed I would absolutely work 
with the scientists who manage these species and absolutely 
take a good, close look. I appreciate your knowledge and caring 
for the beetles in your state and look forward to working with 
you on that. But in the end, I believe it's science that 
manages that.
    Senator Lankford. I do as well and when you hit all the 
numbers and the targets that science had set, it seems like you 
would actually graduate off the program.
    One more quick comment on this. There are leases, there are 
permits, and then there are what they call sundries. These are 
the various items once you go all through the permits and it is 
how you put the roads in, just the decisions that are made. 
Typically, those are made in each region because the leases and 
the permits are done. The sundries have now been pulled up to 
Washington, DC, with Interior to be, for all those decisions 
that are typically made in the region, to now be made in 
Washington, DC.
    My question to you is, would you plan as the Secretary to 
keep those sundry decisions in DC or would the regions be able 
to have those decisions again, as they have in the past?
    Ms. Haaland. As I have said many times throughout this 
hearing yesterday, it's important for local communities to 
weigh in on important decisions and, of course, I would take a 
look at that, if I'm confirmed, but I understand what you're 
saying and I appreciate you raising that with me today.
    Senator Lankford. So it is your hope that the sundry 
decisions would return, is that what you are saying?
    Ms. Haaland. I am saying that I am not sure. I would have 
to take a look at it and be fully briefed on that issue before 
I could give an answer, but I appreciate the opportunities for 
local communities to weigh in on decisions.
    Senator Lankford. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Cassidy.
    Senator Cassidy. ----it is very tough--am I on?----
    The Chairman. You are on, Senator. We hear you.
    Senator Cassidy. ----that you have handled a couple days of 
questioning and--I think I can speak for all my colleagues--we 
are not challenging to be rude. I am representing those 
families who just lost their jobs because of the cancellation 
of the XL Pipeline, which the Obama Administration science said 
would lower greenhouse gas emissions. And I am trying to 
represent those families whose jobs are threatened by what that 
action indicates the Biden Administration is going to do, not 
based upon science, based upon a political agenda which seems 
to be more concerned with paying off constituency groups' 
expectations than lowering greenhouse gas emissions or 
providing employment for fellow Americans. And that is a bitter 
pill to take when someone does not give a damn about your job 
because they have a political agenda and they are ignoring the 
science.
    Now, it is not your fault. You are just the appointee. And 
as you say, you are just the messenger. But nonetheless, I am 
going to speak to some of that today and give more light to the 
consequences of a politically driven, non-scientific-based 
agenda which is costing Americans their jobs.
    So first, Senator Cantwell spoke about the Great American 
Outdoors Act. Turns out, oil and gas development in the Gulf of 
Mexico is what funds about 90 percent of it. So when Senator 
Cantwell was asking you to commit to funding it, and at the 
same time there is a threat to that revenue stream, that is 
kind of a way you cannot answer that correctly. Your agenda of 
the Biden Administration threatens the funding of the Great 
American Outdoors Act. It also, by the way, threatens the 
funding for the Gulf of Mexico, the GOMESA Act, which funds 
coastal restoration in my state.
    Now, let me just say the importance of that. By the way, 
when one of your predecessors, Ryan Zinke, came to Louisiana, a 
woman came to meet with him at a roundtable, and I am quoting 
her. She described herself as, ``one of the biggest liberals he 
would ever meet.'' But she understood the value of the oil and 
gas industry to Louisiana and, more broadly, to the country, 
given the conservation programs funded by U.S. energy. Not a 
direct quote, but good enough.
    So now, as regards my state, the funding we get from 
revenue sharing from Gulf of Mexico activity helps fund our 
coastal restoration, which is to say, our adaptation to climate 
change. And at this point I would like to introduce to the 
record, Mr. Chairman, a letter from my governor, my Democratic 
Governor, John Bel Edwards and his Assistant on Coastal 
Restoration, Chip Kline, both the letter and the testimony--the 
letter from Governor Edwards and the testimony from Chip Kline.
    The Chairman. Without objection.
    [Letter and testimony from Louisiana follow:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Cassidy. And I am going to quote a little bit from 
my Democratic Governor's letter. ``We have a plan which will 
cost $50 billion over 50 years, thereabouts, to restore our 
coastline. GOMESA is the principal form of federal funding to 
achieve this, and canceling leases and program pause creates 
uncertainty in coastal planning processes, having predicted 
$389 million in GOMESA revenue over the next three years. Also, 
Louisiana is entitled to $9 billion of the BP Settlement 
dollars from the Deepwater Horizon. We cannot access that--we 
cannot access those dollars unless we have sufficient funds to 
apply. Any lag or delay in GOMESA funding calls into question 
the ability of Louisiana to realize the benefits of this $9 
billion. Oil and gas production supports 85 percent of our 
coastal resiliency program.'' The consequences of these 
actions, this political agenda, go against the science and the 
economics of rebuilding my state and, by the way, you mentioned 
that you have relatives in Houma, Louisiana, goes against the 
interest of preserving their homeland.
    Now, I just, I just, oh, I am so frustrated by this and it 
is not directed to you, it is to a political agenda which is so 
injurious to what is going on.
    Next, let me also say there has been some discussion about, 
from Senator Cantwell, about the greenhouse gas activities 
associated with oil and gas, but from the Obama 
Administration--again, the science, if you will--that the EIA 
says methane emissions in federal waters in 2019 accounted for 
just 2.5 percent of nationwide emissions. That is from the 
EIA--2.5 percent of nationwide emissions, but 17 percent of 
nationwide oil and gas production. And when President Obama's 
administration finalized their five-year Outer Continental 
Shelf drilling plan, the EIA said that the greenhouse gas 
emissions from the activities associated with lease sales would 
be slightly lower than not doing lease sales. Why? Because if 
we don't develop our domestic production, then we import from 
overseas. There have been several questions as regards whether 
or not we would import. I would say that Dr. Cruickshank, who 
is a career appointee at BOEM, has testified in the House of 
Representatives that indeed if we decrease production, we do 
import.
    And I would also offer for the record, Mr. Chairman, a 
letter in 2018 signed by Senators Cantwell, Menendez, Schumer, 
and Markey which actually asks the President to ask OPEC to 
increase production so we could increase more oil and gas 
because oil and gas prices had gone up so much.
    The Chairman. Without objection.
    [2018 letter to the President follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    The Chairman. Senator, your time is just about over.
    Senator Cassidy. Thank you.
    Not only do we have testimony that it does, but we actually 
have people recognizing that the shortage increases gas prices 
and my Democratic colleagues asking we do that, even though the 
Obama Administration says that if we substitute foreign 
production for domestic production it increases greenhouse gas 
emissions.
    I will close with this, Congressman Haaland, I truly hope, 
if you are appointed, that you are guided by science and not by 
the President's political agenda. You may have faith in it, but 
so far, his current actions do not give me faith in it.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Hyde-Smith.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and welcome 
back, Representative Haaland.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. As in Louisiana, Mississippi is a Gulf 
state and one thing that is important to us is the Bureau of 
Ocean Energy Management (BOEM). And you know, if you are 
confirmed, I am just interested in knowing what your priorities 
are for the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management and the Outer 
Continental Shelf.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator.
    And of course, I am not there. If I'm confirmed, every 
single piece of the Department of Interior will be important. I 
know that there are some amazing career staff who have 
dedicated their careers to ensuring that we're moving this 
Department forward. The first thing I will do is consult with 
each of those bureaus to make sure that I understand fully the 
issues. But Senator, as I mentioned yesterday too, the Congress 
is a co-equal branch of government. I don't intend to, in 
fact--I intend, I should say--I intend to make sure that you 
are always going to be part of this important conversation. You 
know your state far better than I ever will and I would 
appreciate your knowledge and your consultation on all of those 
issues.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you.
    Also, we talked about the Endangered Species Act with the 
Senator that spoke a couple of sessions ago. And farming/
agriculture is the number one industry in Mississippi. One out 
of every four jobs is related to agriculture. So the Endangered 
Species Act, to help us be productive, is very important and I 
believe it is critical to utilize it, you know, any tool that 
is provided in the Farm bill to conserve endangered species 
while improving the review process in ways that lessen the 
administrative burdens on government, recognizing the needs of 
agriculture as well as the needs of public and private rural, 
suburban, and urban land and property owners and promote 
confidence in the regulatory process that affects us so 
greatly. Will the Department of the Interior, under your 
leadership, provide the resources to find a solution to the 
Endangered Species Act consultation roadblocks for pesticide 
review?
    Ms. Haaland. That sounds like an important issue, Senator 
and, of course, that would be important to me. So I look 
forward to working with you, striking the right balance, 
working in partnerships with folks on the ground and certainly, 
farmers are absolutely important to this discussion and working 
to just find the solutions that we need to, to make sure that 
folks can work and sustain themselves.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. And one thing that I am hearing from my 
constituents is that we know that the low-income households pay 
a disproportionate share of their income to overall energy cost 
for various reasons and since President Biden's recent 
Executive Order restricting oil and gas leasing and halting the 
Keystone Pipeline, I continue to hear from my constituents, 
especially since we have gone last week through an ice storm 
that we are not used to going through. They are worried about 
their rising energy costs. And you know, we had to use 
different sources. We had to use natural gas when electricity 
was out and they are very concerned about this right now.
    What is the thought process behind restricting the U.S. 
energy production as it relates to energy affordability for my 
constituents, particularly for the low-income households? What 
is the thought process behind that if we are so sure that it is 
going to increase our costs to the lower income?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I think that it's important that 
everyone have the energy they need to sustain their daily 
lives. I, as you were talking, I was remembering my grandmother 
at Mesita, where I talked about yesterday, they didn't get 
gas--or electricity or running water until the mid-'70s. So I 
feel like we're--this is 2021--everyone should be able to 
partake in those modern conveniences and, certainly, not break 
the bank.
    I know that having diversity of energy resources will 
certainly help in times when we have these ice storms and 
climate events that cause power lines and so forth to go down. 
And I think that--I always move back to the conversation I had 
with Chairman Manchin about technology and innovation. I think 
that we have a tremendous future ahead of us, working to find 
the solutions for those things. I think that if we work 
together to find those solutions that energy costs for families 
could absolutely go down. And I hope that that's the case.
    We have solar panels on our home. The electric bill is 
about $10 a month. I wish everyone had that.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. I know my time is out. Thank 
you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Thank you very much.
    Senator Marshall.
    Senator Marshall. Okay, thank you, Chairman and welcome 
again, Congressman Haaland. Good to see you again.
    I want to start off by talking about the Endangered Species 
Act and my endangered species is the lesser prairie-chicken, 
but every state, of course, has one. And I just want to share 
my story about the prairie-chicken. My mother's farm is ten 
miles from Cassoday, Kansas. Now, Cassoday, Kansas, is called 
the prairie-chicken capital of the world for a reason, and 
growing up, one of our rights to passage was to go prairie-
chicken hunting with my dad and my uncles. And I remember very 
vividly, ten years of age, I had a single-shot H&R shotgun. We 
hunted Saturday, no luck. Sunday, no luck. And this is, you get 
up at four in the morning and you go out and you freeze. You 
sit in the middle of a milo field, so I was pretty distraught. 
And we saw one prairie-chicken fly out into a prairie field of 
our neighbors and I asked my dad and uncle, ``Can I go shoot 
that prairie-chicken?'' They said, ``Oh, you don't have a 
chance. It'll fly before you get there.'' Went out. Stalked it. 
And sure enough, ten-year-old little Roger Marshall shot a 
prairie-
chicken, his first bird, and I was a hero for the day. We took 
it back to the farm and we had prairie-chicken and noodles.
    And we have seen the population decimated. That was a 
greater prairie-chicken. The issue is the lesser prairie-
chicken. I was fortunate enough to be on the Wildlife Parks and 
Game Commission there in Kansas and followed the prairie-
chicken really closely. In 2013, it was at its nadir and, just 
coincidentally, 2013 was the end of a big, big drought and as 
it started raining again, habitat improved and the prairie-
chicken population has doubled of what it was in 2013. And I 
think that is a story that is real common, you know, that 
droughts cause wildlife to go down and it rains, the wildlife 
comes back. But as I really dug deep into that issue, voluntary 
conservation was the most successful. The government projects 
were miserable failures, but a couple ranchers--fifth, sixth, 
generation ranchers, did some volunteer grazing changes and 
really were responsible for that comeback along with some rain.
    So, you know, my two questions on the Endangered Species 
Act are, how do you feel about voluntary conservation in 
general, and then, how do you measure success? We know how 
species get on the list, but how do you get off the list, just 
in general?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator. Thank you, I loved that 
story.
    And yes, I am all for that. I mean, we are all stewards of 
this land, and if more of us took that initiative that those 
farmers did that you're talking about, I think our country 
would be in a much better place. So please thank them for me.
    I know that the ESA is managed by science and I understand 
that, you know, we want those species to recover to a certain 
degree. I want you to know that I will absolutely pay close 
attention to this issue. I know that the partnerships that you 
talk about between states, between Tribal Nations, between 
local communities--those are very important for all of us to 
find the solutions and make sure that those species are there 
so that your grandchildren can have the same experiences that 
you had.
    Senator Marshall. You know, absolutely, and that is the 
goal here is those great memories that we can pass on. But just 
in general though, to push a little bit, what would it look 
like to you for an endangered species to come off the list? I 
understand we are trying to follow the science, but when humans 
interact with ecology, that is when the conflicts arise. So 
what does it look like to be improving the species enough that 
they would get off the Endangered Species List?
    Ms. Haaland. Well, I imagine that it varies from species to 
species, but I know species do need to recover to a certain 
degree, and then I understand that, you know, their habitat and 
so the things that keep them alive, as you well know--the 
difference between us and the animals is we have the ability to 
reason and animals can only live by instinct. So they can't 
live outside of their environment. So this is going to be an 
important issue for me, Senator, I promise. And I will look 
forward to--I'm not at the Department yet--I don't have every 
single stat on the Endangered Species List, but you can bet 
that it will be important to me and to the Department.
    Senator Marshall. Okay, I want to talk about water rights, 
just for a second. And again, going back to my boyhood, on 
Saturday nights after we got all the hay hauled, we would sit 
in the cellar and everyone would bring all their stories and 
from time to time. You live out in the country, there is going 
to be a water rights issue. And I just remember my grandad 
saying three or four times, whiskey is for drinking, water is 
for fighting. And I had no idea. Quivira Wildlife Refuge is 30 
miles from my home, a beautiful refuge, a refuge that I have 
had the opportunity to hunt in and around it for decades as 
well. And there are creeks that flow into it and then right in 
the middle of some really incredible corn land, but we have to 
irrigate. And thus, there is the conflict between the water 
rights of Quivira Wildlife Refuge and the farmers.
    And this corn growing is 90 percent of the economy for that 
county, 90 percent. I mean, this is important. These are the 
farmers whose babies I have delivered the last 25 years. So 
this is personal to me. You know, Quivira has a water right, of 
course they do. And the farmers have a right as well. Quivira's 
is senior to it. But as I have seen through this drought, the 
duck numbers, the geese numbers have stayed great, despite 
Quivira not using all of its water right, that it is more 
thanks to folks like Ducks Unlimited that are providing better 
habitat up north, the ducks and geese have done better. The 
water and shorebirds, all those, have done better.
    Does the federal refuge have to always use all of its water 
right? Why can't they share that with farmers in a more 
equitable, friendly fashion, I guess?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Senator.
    And I know that water law is complicated and important. And 
I know that there are water attorneys at the Department and you 
can bet that I will seek their advice and look at this issue 
and rely on you to bring us your ideas about how we can make 
things better.
    Senator Marshall. But would you acknowledge that the 
farmers----
    The Chairman. Senator.
    Senator Marshall. I yield back, thank you.
    The Chairman. Go ahead, finish up. Finish up.
    Senator Marshall [off mic]. Would you disagree--the 
economics of the farmers is also as important as it is for the 
ducks and the geese?
    Ms. Haaland. I think the--coming from a traditional farming 
family who have been farming for centuries and centuries, 
farming is absolutely important. It's an American tradition. I 
support farmers and would love to find solutions to these 
issues, Senator.
    Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you. Thank you so much, Senator.
    Senator Wyden.
    Senator Wyden. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    And Congresswoman, it sounds like it has been another long 
and challenging morning, and I have been to two other hearings, 
but I wanted to come back, and I know we are getting ready to 
wrap up. I just want to come back to some of the fundamental 
propositions that your nomination is all about. The first is, 
you get rural jobs. That is so important. And I am not talking 
about this in an abstract way. I saw it when Congressman Neguse 
and I were putting together the 21st Century Civilian 
Conservation Corps legislation and a chance to create jobs for 
thousands of young people in the woods, and scores of vendors 
could sell goods and services as part of that program. You did 
not just say you are for jobs. You went out and you helped us 
actually get sponsors for the legislation.
    Why should that not be a surprise? Because you are the 
league leader in terms of bipartisanship over there, in terms 
of actually getting people to go along with bills. So, on the 
track record that we Westerners care about, which is jobs and 
collaboration, the kinds of things I have heard you talking 
about for the last couple of days are what I hear folks say 
they want in my most conservative counties. They say they want 
more jobs. They recognize that jobs and protecting our 
treasures are not mutually exclusive, that you can do both, 
which you have said. And they sure as hell want everybody to 
get together and collaborate, which you have made your calling 
card.
    I wanted to ask one more question about an area where, 
again, you have brought those principles--the question of jobs, 
the question of protecting our treasures, and bringing people 
together. Another area where you have put those principles in 
motion involves both water conflicts, which we have, as you 
know, all over the West, and trying to deal with tribal water 
issues, which impacts practically every member of this 
Committee. Certainly, all the western members have those 
challenges.
    So give us a little bit of insight into yet another area 
where you are doing good, on-the-ground problem solving--and 
most of the members of this Committee are from the West. This 
is not an abstract issue. This is the real world we see when we 
go home and we have those town hall meetings. Tell us a little 
bit about what you have done on resolving water conflicts and 
tribal water infrastructure. Two separate issues on which I 
know you have a good track record.
    Ms. Haaland. Right, thank you, Senator.
    And what I'll say is, you know, what I, when I think about 
tribal water infrastructure, I'm reminded just recently of, you 
know, a few articles that I read about people on the Navajo 
Nation having to drive 20 miles just to fill up some water 
barrels. Some of these people may already have running water, 
but their water is polluted. And I think in 2021, every single 
American should have an opportunity to have safe and healthy 
drinking water. This is a human right, in my opinion. And I 
mentioned earlier that yes, my grandmother didn't get running 
water at her village until 1975. I learned early on how to 
conserve water because when you're hauling buckets of water 
across the village on a dusty road, you don't want to spill a 
drop of it. And I think that we, not one drop of water has come 
into or left our planet in 4.6 billion years. It's just that 
the climate change has caused our water to move in different 
areas. So we need to protect the water that we have.
    I am all for ensuring that we can come to solutions with 
tribal water infrastructure, that we can look at water in a new 
lens in 2021 when we know climate change is a drastic issue, 
especially in the West with the droughts that we have. And I 
hope that we can find ways to conserve, recycle, move--move all 
of those issues forward so that nobody is stuck in a desert 
without any water to drink, essentially.
    Senator Wyden. The Confederated Tribes of Warm Springs in 
my state--and I appreciate the courtesy of my friend, the 
Chairman. I will just wrap up really quickly. They are sure 
looking for your new lens in terms of trying to deal with these 
tribal water issues, and Warm Springs is not alone. I can look 
right down this Committee, and we see so many states 
represented by this Committee who have these challenges with 
significant tribal populations trying to resolve water issues. 
When you are talking about tribal populations, you get into the 
broader water conflict questions, particularly in the West, 
where there is scarcity.
    As we wrap this up, I just want to make the case, again, 
that we started considering your nomination really early 
yesterday. I think you had some of the same sort of questions 
today. We do not have people come back twice very often. I just 
want you to know, not only am I going to support you, I am 
going to speak for you on the Floor of the Senate, because I 
think you have made the case, beyond a doubt, that you will be 
there for rural jobs. You will do it in a way that is not 
divorced from protecting our treasures, because, in my part of 
the world, we want jobs and environmental protection. We are 
seeing two sides of the same coin. I think you get it.
    I will tell you, the single biggest issue--and I talk about 
these issues with my friend, Senator Manchin, all the time, and 
with all my western colleagues here--when we go home, the 
number one thing farmers, ranchers, and environmental folks say 
they want, is people to try to come together. They want to find 
a collaborative approach, and if you are talking about that 
being your priority--you led the league over there in the House 
of Representatives in terms of people coming together. When 
Congressman Neguse and I were looking for somebody who could 
help us, we said we have a big idea, something that really goes 
back almost to FDR, the 21st Century Civilian Conservation 
Corps. We said we need somebody good who people like and want 
to work with to go get us some House sponsors. That somebody 
was you.
    I am very appreciative, and as we move to wrap up the 
consideration of this important nomination, I want it clear, I 
am all in.
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you.
    Senator Wyden. I am supporting Congresswoman Haaland and we 
will hopefully get a chance to make those points on the Floor 
of the United States Senate.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. With that, we have a few more questions that 
Senators would like to ask, if possible, and then I am going to 
have to leave. If I leave early, then Senator Barrasso will 
continue, but right now we have a few more questions. I am 
going to submit my questions for the record.
    I just want to thank you for coming back and being so 
diligent and doing such a good job. I really appreciate that, 
Congresswoman Haaland, very much.
    With that, I am going to turn my time over to Senator 
Barrasso right now for questions.
    Senator Barrasso. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman.
    A couple of different things, and people have these 
questions because we are very concerned about our communities 
and where we live, the jobs that are included and related and 
this major role that the Department of the Interior plays in 
the lives and the livelihoods of so many people in our home 
states.
    So on February 4th of this year, just a couple of weeks 
ago, I sent the Acting Interior Secretary a letter which 
included 22 specific questions about his Secretarial Order 
banning oil and gas leasing on federal lands and waters for 60 
days. On Monday, the Acting Secretary sent a response which 
largely restates his Secretarial Order and fails to answer my 
specific questions. So I am going to resubmit my 22 questions 
that will be addressed to you in writing and be part of the 
hearing record for this hearing. Now, to me, it is 
unconscionable that the people of Wyoming cannot get a straight 
answer from this Department. And I know you are not in that 
position now, but there is an Acting Secretary who is refusing 
to answer the questions.
    So can I get your commitment that you will answer my 
questions as they are coming to you in writing?
    Ms. Haaland. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Barrasso. I appreciate that because I know the 
staff at the Department is going to help you respond to the 
written questions from all of us on the Committee and I am 
confident that with your help we can get answers to these 
questions. So thank you.
    I want to follow up a little bit. We have had questions 
about the Endangered Species Act. It is an important 
conservation tool, as you have said, that was enacted to 
protect species from extinction. The proper application of the 
law has resulted in the recovery of several species. It is 
important to me that the law be applied in a responsible manner 
so that we can protect the species that truly need protection.
    Yesterday, when you were asked why you would sponsor 
legislation that would put the grizzly bears under permanent 
federal protection--federal protection, permanently--your bill 
in the House with your name on it, you said, ``I imagine at the 
time I was caring about bears.'' Well, I want to make sure you 
care about the law. There is a law of the land. Will you commit 
to doing everything in your power to fight the frivolous 
lawsuits and delist species that government scientists have 
concluded are fully recovered?
    Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Ranking Member Barrasso.
    And I know that the Endangered Species Act is extremely 
important, as you said. I, if I'm confirmed, I would seek 
partnerships with states, with tribes, with local communities, 
to talk about this important issue and----
    Senator Barrasso. I am talking about the law.
    Ms. Haaland. Sir, I will always follow the law.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
    The global pandemic has created an unprecedented situation 
that has kept people isolated for almost a year. One way that 
people have coped with all of the restrictions from the 
pandemic has been by visiting national parks and public lands. 
You were critical of efforts to open federal land during the 
pandemic, even though it was done in coordination with state 
and local health departments. It is important to me that we are 
ensuring that the public has a place to go during this public 
health crisis when there are very few other options.
    Will you protect access to our national parks and other 
public lands during the pandemic?
    Ms. Haaland. Ranking Member Barrasso, yes. I believe now 
that President Biden is in office there is a mask mandate on 
our public lands and in our national parks and I feel that if 
everyone does their part to social distance and be careful and 
wear their masks, that we will have more of those 
opportunities.
    Senator Barrasso. Yesterday, you said you wanted to move 
forward with President Biden's Build Back Better plan that 
would, as you said, ``create millions of jobs in clean 
energy,'' your quote from yesterday. So recently John Kerry 
claimed that the fastest growing job before COVID, he said, was 
solar technician, and he said that the Administration would 
give fossil fuel workers, in his words, better choices, and the 
Washington Post fact checker then just looked into what former 
Senator and Secretary of State Kerry had to say. This is what 
the Washington Post fact checker said. They said he was 
offering false hope--false hope from the Administration with a 
misleading use of statistics. The Washington Post went on and 
said it identified about 10,400 new wind and solar jobs over 
the next ten years. We are talking about maybe a million energy 
jobs being lost and the Washington Post says of John Kerry, you 
are talking about 10,000 jobs relative to a million?
    Do you have any evidence to dispute what the Washington 
Post has said about the statements coming out of this 
Administration and the false hope being offered?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, what I can say is I'm going to fight 
hard for every single job. I want people to work. I know what 
that's like and I promise you that wherever I have 
opportunities, I will take them to make sure that people have 
secure futures. Every family deserves to have a roof over their 
head.
    Senator Barrasso. Well, we have heard similar types of 
rhetoric that we have heard from this Administration and from 
John Kerry back in 2009 under the Obama Administration and we 
ended up with failures like Solyndra--the promise of green jobs 
and ended up with billions of wasted taxpayer dollars, bankrupt 
companies, and almost no actual jobs.
    Senator Daines.
    Senator Daines. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Haaland, good to see you again.
    Ms. Haaland. Nice to see you.
    Senator Daines. During the course of the last couple of 
days, Representative Haaland, you have implied that you would 
virtually blindly follow President Biden in his positions on 
energy and other important issues for the West, like land 
management. I can tell you, folks back home are really 
concerned----
    Ms. Haaland. Okay.
    Senator Daines [continuing]. About the lurch to the left of 
this Administration and, if confirmed, you would be eighth in 
line of succession to the Presidency of the United States. 
Isn't the role of a Cabinet Secretary to advise the President 
on these important issues, not just follow him blindly?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, the way I have always taken any 
position I have had is I feel that I am part of a team, and if 
I am confirmed, it's working with all of the other Cabinet 
Secretaries as well as with President Biden and acting as a 
team. And of course, as I have mentioned many times, Congress 
is a co-equal branch of government. I don't think we can move 
these important issues forward by ourselves. We need to work 
together.
    Senator Daines. Yes, thank you. Just the answer we kept 
getting where you are going to follow President Biden and I am 
hoping you would be a leader that would advise him where you 
want to go and not just blindly follow, frankly, his leadership 
right now that is moving this country to a very anti-
conventional source of energy and so forth.
    I want to follow up on my 30/30 question. You were the 
leader in the House on that legislation. It is President 
Biden's initiative. You are also the author of that resolution 
in the House. You clarified that you are seeking to preserve 30 
percent of all land, including private land. What executive 
authorities do you have and will you use to accomplish that?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I don't have all the details of how 
President Biden intends to move the 30 by 30 initiative 
forward. But I do understand that he is hoping for many 
different folks to work together to achieve that. I was proud 
to support that. I know your former colleague, Senator Tom 
Udall, introduced it on this side of the Capitol. It is the--30 
by 30 is the number that scientists believe we should conserve 
if we want to have a future for our grandchildren, and I feel 
like it is an exciting thing to start talking about the 
possibility of achieving that.
    Senator Daines. So there are multiple environmental laws 
that guide actions on federal lands, as you well know--NEPA, 
ESA, and HHPA. In what meaningful ways do you believe our 
public lands are not being conserved?
    Ms. Haaland. Well, of course, yes, I know there's a 
plethora of laws out there that protect our public lands. 
Senator, I'd be happy to take a look at that and answer your 
question in its entirety and submit it for your consideration.
    Senator Daines. Thank you.
    You know, the USGS has already reported that 30 percent of 
our lands are in conservation status. So it is not clear to me 
what we are trying to accomplish with that resolution, but I 
look forward to having further discussions on it.
    Ms. Haaland. Yes, I do too.
    Senator Daines. I know that my Colorado colleague, Senator 
Hickenlooper, was not able to ask a question about the BLM out 
West. Moving the BLM out West has made it easier for Montanans 
to connect with the agency that manages large areas of land in 
our state and it is nice to have them in the same time zone. On 
March 10th of last year, you said that the Department of the 
Interior was attempting to dismantle the Bureau of Land 
Management by moving the headquarters to Colorado. Why do you 
believe that moving the BLM headquarters to Grand Junction was 
so wrong?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, at the time, I heard from a lot of 
different Indian Tribes, quite frankly, who were upset about 
that issue. Now that the BLM, the Bureau of Land Management 
office is moved to Grand Junction--and additionally I know a 
lot of career staff left the Bureau because of that, they 
didn't want to move. I think that we need to first consider the 
well-being of the career staff there and take a good look at 
the issue. I don't have any intention at this moment of 
changing things, but I am not there yet. If I'm confirmed, that 
will be an important issue to look at.
    Senator Daines. So at this point then, is your sense you 
would keep the headquarters there in Colorado? I know Senator 
Hickenlooper probably wanted to ask that question. I will ask 
it for him for the folks in Colorado.
    Ms. Haaland. He has spoken with me regarding that issue a 
few times. Thank you.
    Senator Daines. I want to ask about some multiple-use 
questions. It is very important to our public lands in Montana 
and across the West. Would you commit to a ``no net loss'' of 
timber harvest on public lands?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I don't think I can commit to 
anything at this moment. I am not confirmed, but if I am 
confirmed, I appreciate knowing and understanding your concern 
in that area and would be more than happy to continue a 
conversation with you.
    Senator Daines. Regarding no net loss, what about grazing 
permits? Would you commit to no net loss of grazing permits?
    Ms. Haaland. Again Senator, I would be more than happy--I 
mentioned earlier in the hearing that I understand how 
important grazing is to a lot of ranchers in this country and I 
would be happy to----
    Senator Daines. They are very concerned. They really are, 
as well as my, you know, many of our men and women who embrace 
the outdoors and shooting sports. Would you commit to no net 
loss of hunting and trapping opportunities?
    Ms. Haaland. I support hunting and fishing and I support 
the outdoor economy. I think it's important to our country.
    Senator Daines. Would you commit to no net loss of it? The 
concern is losing it, losing it on a net basis. If you look at 
it, there is a lot of concern right now about some of the, you 
know, your prior statements and what that might mean to policy 
outcomes and ultimately net loss of hunting and trapping 
opportunities.
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, I understand and I promise you that I 
will talk with you. I will do my best to make sure that those 
folks have opportunities to have their voices heard.
    Senator Daines. Senator Barrasso, can I ask one more 
question? You okay on time? Thank you.
    If you would put up Chart number 4.
    [The chart displayed follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Daines. Representative Haaland, I appreciate your 
patience with all the questions you are receiving here and I 
thank you----
    Ms. Haaland. Of course.
    Senator Daines [continuing]. Thank you for your answers.
    During our meeting when I asked you about active forest 
management you responded that NEPA comment periods needed to be 
longer. And behind me is a map of a forest project that was 
proposed by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, a great wildlife 
conservation organization headquartered in Missoula, Montana. 
Half of the project area burned because it was delayed by 
litigation. It was, in fact, it burned while it was in the 
middle of that delay. Do you really believe that extending the 
NEPA comment period is the best way to increase the scale and 
the scope of active forest management?
    Ms. Haaland. I'm not saying that extending is the best way. 
During our conversation, Senator, I think I was referring to 
the idea of public comment periods with respect to, for 
example, areas in my state where folks don't have access to 
internet, for example. They were taking comments only on the 
internet and if you don't have internet and if you don't have 
computers, it's difficult to make your voice heard. I think 
what we need to do is make sure that folks have opportunities 
and a means to weigh in when these issues are important to 
them. I'm not sure if lengthening the process is the answer, 
but certainly make sure that the public comment periods are 
real.
    Senator Daines. When we look at----
    Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Senator, I have Senator 
Murkowski and we promised----
    Senator Daines. Oh.
    Senator Barrasso [continuing]. The nominee she would be 
done at about noon so that----
    Senator Daines. Thank you. I will yield to Senator 
Murkowski or the Chairman. Thanks.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and thank you, 
Senator Daines. Hopefully I will ask a question that will work 
for you as well. Representative Haaland, again, thank you for 
your endurance here on day two.
    You, in response to Senator Hyde-Smith, when talking about 
the issue of affordability--this is a matter that is of extreme 
interest to me. Of course, we come from one of the highest-cost 
energy states in the country in terms of the rates that people 
pay for their power to keep warm in a cold place. And so this 
is very personal. And your story about your grandmother not 
receiving power and water to her community until the mid-'70s 
is something that, as you know, we still live in far too many 
of our villages, primarily Alaska Native villages and one of 
the bright spots, certainly for those in the North Slope 
communities, is that with oil those families have been able to 
not only heat their homes, but to do so in a way that is more 
affordable to not only have the basics that we would understand 
in terms of staying warm and having water, but also the 
benefits of a public safety system, the benefits of 
transportation access, the benefits of schooling.
    And so I just ask you, as you look to the realities of 
American energy and how people are situated, that some of our 
most vulnerable in this country--the energy vulnerability is a 
very real question, a very real issue. And so how we can help 
with jobs and also making this critical component of people's 
lives available to them. Sometimes our reality is that it is 
not the energy solution to have solar in Utqiagvik, but the 
opportunities that present themselves with natural gas, with 
the base resource that we have up there, is something that I 
just ask you to be understanding of them and their situation.
    I want to raise also the situation with many of our remote 
communities, primarily Alaska Native villages that are reliant 
on so many of these policies that are in play right now. Many 
in this Committee have heard me speak at length about the 
community of King Cove, a small community of 800 people out in 
Southwest Alaska, cut off from a major runway that can allow 
them an opportunity to get their people to safety when weather 
shuts them in, on average, 100 days a year. In 2013, the 
Secretary of the Interior turned her back on those people and 
said that somebody needed to be thinking about the birds. In 
the meantime, those people in King Cove have endured over 100 
medevacs since the time that that lifesaving, ten-mile, one-
lane, gravel, non-commercial use road was denied. And our Coast 
Guard has been called in for multiple medevacs to get these 
people to safety. So I am going to ask you if you will commit 
to, at a bare minimum, meeting with the people of King Cove to 
discuss their plight and to hear their concerns and do this, if 
you are confirmed, very early within your tenure.
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, absolutely. Thank you.
    Senator Murkowski. Okay.
    Ms. Haaland. And thank you for sending me your memo. I took 
the liberty of reading more about the issues in King Cove. As 
you know, I feel very strongly that everybody deserves to have 
medical attention when they need it and I appreciate you caring 
so much about the people there.
    Senator Murkowski. Well, I am passionate about them. I am 
also passionate about our Alaska Native veterans who have not 
yet received entitlement to their native allotments. We passed 
the bill last year to help allow for that processing, but until 
we can get these PLOs--the public land orders--withdrawn so 
that there is an availability of selection, they are being 
denied their entitlement to their land, their allotments and 
that is, again, something that I am very passionate about and 
would hope that you would understand there.
    My time is almost expired, but let me raise the issue that 
was just shared on the 30 by 30 and your commitment. Our 
reality is that we have already met the 30 percent in terms of 
our lands and waters in conservation status. Sixty-six percent 
of all National Park Service lands in the country are in 
Alaska. Twenty-nine percent of all BLM lands in the country are 
in Alaska. Twenty-five and a half percent of all Fish and 
Wildlife Service lands in the country are in Alaska. Twelve 
percent of all Forest Service lands in the country are in 
Alaska.
    We have, as you know, ANILCA, the Alaska National Interest 
Land Conservation Act, which pretty much established all that I 
have shared with you, or a good bulk of it, but our reality was 
the deal at that time in 1980 was we have enough in 
conservation status in Alaska. We are doing more than our 
share--more, and we are happy. We love our parks. We love the 
opportunities that we have on our lands, but we also believed 
very much in the commitment that the Federal Government made 
with ANILCA that the ``no more'' clause meant ``no more.'' And 
so that is something that, as we look at this 30/30 provision 
and the direction that President Biden is advancing under this 
Executive Order, it causes us some degree of alarm because we 
have received no assurance that ANILCA, as we understand it and 
as was agreed, will be respected as this Administration is 
looking to put yet more lands and waters in conservation 
status.
    So I don't know if you would care to comment about that, 
but that, again, is a very, very important matter to us.
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, thank you so much. I appreciate 
everything that you do for your state and I look so forward to 
working with you. I promise you I will follow the law. I know 
how important these issues are to you and to the people in your 
state and I look forward to----
    Senator Murkowski. So you would agree that with ANILCA and 
the ``no more'' clause, that is the law, that what we have in 
conservation status will not be impacted by this 30 by 30 
initiative?
    Ms. Haaland. I look forward, as I mentioned earlier, I 
don't know what that full initiative looks like, but I 
absolutely respect everything that you have said and I 
appreciate it and look forward to working with you and that I 
will absolutely follow the law and thank you, Senator 
Murkowski.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Murkowski.
    Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Heinrich. I do not think I have any more questions, 
if we want to wrap up.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
    Senator Marshall, do you have a final wrapping question?
    Senator Marshall. Just one.
    Senator Barrasso. Please proceed.
    Senator Marshall. Okay. Again, if you have not been able to 
tell yet, I am passionate about the great outdoors--fishing and 
hunting, hiking, boating, and I want to make sure that my 
grandchildren have that same opportunity. The greatest memories 
of my life are times in the outdoors.
    Are you familiar with the Pittman-Robertson Act? It's where 
fisherman and hunters put our money where our mouth is.
    Ms. Haaland. Yes, yes, I believe I am.
    Senator Marshall. So again, from my experience on the 
Wildlife and Parks board I got to see where that money was 
used, but it is an 11 percent excise tax on guns, ammunition, 
and fishing equipment and, in my humble opinion, I think the 
states do a great job of figuring out how to spend that money. 
Any thoughts on how you think that money should be used or not 
used?
    Ms. Haaland. Well, what I will say is you hit the nail on 
the head every time, Senator, when you say that the local 
folks, the states should weigh in on these issues and I agree 
with you on everything that you have brought up today and 
certainly the fact that we want your grandkids to have those 
opportunities as well.
    So I want to rely on you to bring your ideas forward and 
anyway I can help, of course, I am happy to.
    Senator Marshall. Great. Do I get one more or do we need to 
wrap up?
    Senator Barrasso. Go ahead.
    Senator Heinrich [presiding]. Go right ahead.
    Senator Marshall. Oh, okay.
    I guess the last point I want to make is as we think about 
government policies, its impact on that single mom that I have 
been delivering the last 20 or 25 years, and the price of 
gasoline and the cost of electricity is so important to them. 
And our ecology, our environment, obviously important to me as 
well, but as I noticed as a private obstetrician, whenever the 
price of gasoline got over $3.00 a gallon and that was just--I 
was looking back through some notes--2015, I noticed that those 
moms would stop coming to their OB appointments. Many of my 
patients drive 30, 60, 90, 120 miles. So that is how, in my 
life, I would see the price of gasoline impact people. And I 
think the same impact is overly felt by hard-working Americans 
who live paycheck-to-paycheck on their electricity bill as 
well.
    Are you concerned at all about some of the policies you 
have described, what it is going to do to the cost of gasoline 
at the pump and the cost of electricity for these folks at 
home?
    Ms. Haaland. Senator, thank you for raising that and that 
happens a tremendous amount in my State of New Mexico, where 
we're largely rural. There is only one veterans' hospital in 
the whole state and folks do have to drive a very long way and 
that's one of the reasons why I have been so supportive of 
ensuring that broadband internet is a human right because I 
know that telehealth is a way to help a lot of folks with those 
issues. And we have seen that during this pandemic. If folks 
would have had those opportunities, things would be different.
    I just want to say one thing. I'd love for you to look at, 
because you're a doctor, the ECHO program. It was started by 
Dr. Sanjeev Arora, in my State of New Mexico, and I think you 
would find that a very interesting and beneficial program to 
our country. It's helped a whole lot of people and you can 
expand it in various and sundry ways. And I think you'd be 
interested to learn about that.
    Senator Marshall. I would be honored. Thank you and I yield 
back.
    Senator Heinrich. I will actually put a little packet 
together on project ECHO because I think our new member on the 
Committee, and especially being a physician, will find it 
really interesting, and maybe even a great place where we can 
all work together.
    Thank you all for being part of this hearing today, and I 
think the hearing is closed.
    Senator Barrasso. If I could just add, members have until 
6:00 p.m. tonight to submit additional questions for the 
record.
    And I would like to thank you as well and I appreciate you 
being here both with us yesterday and today.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you very much, Ranking Member 
Barrasso.
    [Whereupon, at 12:19 p.m. the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Additional material submitted for the record for Day 1 and 
for Day 2 follows:]

                      APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

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