[Senate Hearing 117-105]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 117-105

                          GRANHOLM NOMINATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                                   TO

              CONSIDER THE NOMINATION OF THE HONORABLE JENNIFER M. 
                     GRANHOLM TO BE THE SECRETARY OF ENERGY

                               __________

                            JANUARY 27, 2021

                               __________
                               
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                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                           
                           (116th Congress)

                    LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
MIKE LEE, Utah                       MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
STEVE DAINES, Montana                BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
CORY GARDNER, Colordao               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
MARTHA McSALLY, Arizona              ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee           CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota

                      Brian Hughes, Staff Director
                      Lucy Murfitt, Chief Counsel
                 Renae Black, Democratic Staff Director
                Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
                     Darla Ripchensky, Chief Clerk

                  (117th Congress) \1\,\2\

                JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia,Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon                    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington           JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico          STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine            JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado       CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
                                     ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas

                      Renae Black, Staff Director
                      Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
             Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
              Matthew H. Leggett, Republican Chief Counsel
                     Darla Ripchensky, Chief Clerk

---------- 
\1\  S. Res. 28, the majority party's membership on certain committees 
for the One Hundred Seventeenth Congress, or until their successors are 
chosen, was passed on February 3, 2021.
\2\  S. Res. 32, the minority party's membership on certain committees 
for the One Hundred Seventeenth Congress, or until their successors are 
chosen, was passed on February 3, 2021.
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Alaska....     1
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Incoming Chairman and a U.S. Senator from 
  West Virginia..................................................     2
Barrasso, Hon. John, Incoming Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator 
  from Wyoming...................................................     4

                               WITNESSES

Stabenow, Hon. Debbie, a U.S. Senator from Michigan..............     6
Upton, Hon. Fred, a U.S. Representative from Michigan............     7
Granholm, Hon. Jennifer M., nominated to be the Secretary of 
  Energy.........................................................     9

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Barrasso, Hon. John:
    Opening Statement............................................     4
Casha, Jim:
    Letter for the Record........................................   118
Chamber of Commerce of the United States of America:
    Letter for the Record........................................   122
Granholm, Hon. Jennifer M.:
    Opening Statement............................................     9
    Written Testimony............................................    11
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    50
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
    Opening Statement............................................     2
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
Stabenow, Hon. Debbie:
    Introduction.................................................     6
Upton, Hon. Fred:
    Introduction.................................................     7

 
                          GRANHOLM NOMINATION

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 27, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:40 a.m. in Room 
SD-106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Lisa Murkowski, 
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA

    The Chairman. The Committee will come to order as we meet 
to consider the nomination of the Honorable Jennifer Granholm, 
the former Governor of Michigan, to be our next Secretary of 
Energy. I will say, as I am starting off the hearing, I am glad 
that I have good eyesight because you are a long way away. But 
welcome to the Committee and those who are joining us 
virtually.
    This is our Committee's first hearing in the new Congress. 
My gaveling in this morning is perhaps a little bit unexpected 
as the Senate leaders are finalizing and organizing a 
resolution. I am still Chairman, perhaps on a technicality 
here, but I will be handing the gavel over to Senator Manchin 
in just a few moments. Before I do, I want to just make a 
couple comments.
    First, I want to reiterate what an honor, what a privilege, 
what a pleasure it has been to chair this Committee. I think we 
recognize that we accomplished a great deal for our country and 
we did it in a way that, I think, demonstrates the best of the 
Senate. We did it in a collegial way, we did it with a 
bipartisan approach and we did it on issues that are sometimes 
difficult, but we worked things through the Committee. We 
worked with our staffs and I want to thank members on both 
sides. I want to thank staffs who worked hard with us, and I 
also want to recognize those who are no longer serving on the 
Committee with us for all that they did to help make sure that 
good results were going to be possible coming from this 
Committee.
    Second, I want to offer my congratulations and my best 
wishes to the gentlemen on either side of me here this morning, 
both of whom are set to assume new roles here. Senator Manchin 
has been a true partner over the past couple of years. You 
know, Joe, I never really thought of you so much as my Ranking 
Member but as more of a co-pilot here. I have great confidence 
in you and your approach on these important and significant 
energy issues, and I have truly appreciated and valued the 
relationship that I have had with you as a Ranking as I did 
with Senator Wyden, as we were teaming, and Senator Cantwell as 
well. I have been truly privileged in the leadership role that 
I have had on this Committee, both as Ranking and as Chairman, 
and I appreciate that.
    Senator Barrasso is going to be our new Ranking Member. If 
there are those here in the Senate that I look to and I call my 
good friend, John Barrasso is my good friend and an 
extraordinary colleague. I know that the Republican side of ENR 
is going to be well, well taken care of in your excellent 
hands. So I am pleased that you are in this role and in this 
position.
    You know, I think we recognize that in these roles you 
can't pick your counterparts, you can't pick your successors 
and sometimes it is the luck of the draw, sometimes you may 
look at it and say, man, that is going to be a headache.
    [Laughter.]
    But I do feel very, very fortunate to have been able to 
work with some extraordinary leaders on this Committee and look 
forward to the leadership that you two will provide in this 
117th Congress.
    I have plenty to say about today's hearing, but I am going 
to simply welcome Governor Granholm at this moment. I will 
reserve my statement until later on, but at this point I will 
turn to Senator Manchin for his statement. Congratulations, 
again, Senator Manchin, very soon, officially to be Chairman 
Manchin from the great State of West Virginia.
    What do you say? The little state?
    Senator Manchin. No, no, no, nothing about little.
    [Laughter.]
    Great state works.
    The Chairman. All right.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Manchin.

              STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA

    Senator Manchin. We have all got great states, right, John?
    The Chairman. We do.
    Senator Manchin. The great State of Wyoming, Oregon, 
Michigan, Washington, Vermont, and New Mexico. We have the 
South. The South is well represented, and we just have a great 
staff. It is a great Committee and it is great on both sides of 
the Congress.
    I want to thank you again, Madam Chairman. I am very 
grateful for your courtesy in allowing me to preside this 
morning, even though it is still not official. We understand 
that changes are coming very quickly, and it is one more 
example of the kindness and consideration that you have always 
shown me, the grace in which you have led this Committee, and I 
am very grateful for that.
    I would like all of us to take a moment to thank our 
Chairman--Chairwoman, if you would--for the great service to 
this Committee. There have only been two Republicans that have 
served as long as Senator Murkowski has. In the past six years, 
she has been the Chair--she served six years as Ranking Member 
before that, and one other person who did that was her father, 
Senator Frank Murkowski. So she has kept right up with dad and 
I would say that maybe, I think--it is a very competitive 
family. She thinks she has beat him a few times on things. But 
anyway, we have been extremely productive in this Committee 
because of your leadership, and I thank you for that.
    We were able to enact not only the first Omnibus Public 
Lands bill in five years but also the first Omnibus Energy bill 
in 13 years, and provided mandatory funding for the Land and 
Water Conservation Fund, and maintenance on public lands. 
Enacting any of those would have been a mammoth undertaking. We 
did it in one Congress. It was a combination of the hard work 
of then-Chairman Wyden, then-Chairman Cantwell from the State 
of Washington, and everyone working together on this, and also, 
the Ranking Members you have had.
    As Chairman, I look forward to carrying on the Committee's 
longstanding bipartisanship tradition and ensuring the nation's 
energy security and the wise use of our natural resources. Even 
though both Senator Barrasso and I must wait for the Senate to 
adopt the organizing resolution before we officially assume our 
new roles, the Committee's obligation to do the public's 
business does continue. John and I have been able to meet, and 
the staffs have been getting acquainted. It is going to be a 
really good transition. You have set a good example for all of 
us to follow. So I am grateful to you, Senator Murkowski, for 
convening this hearing this morning to consider the nomination 
of my friend, Governor Jennifer Granholm, to be the nation's 
16th Secretary of Energy.
    Welcome, Governor Granholm, to you and to your husband, 
Dan. I know you very well and have the pleasure of having a 
great relationship with you, as we were governors together. We 
have traveled together, and your willingness to serve our 
country in a higher capacity is just wonderful.
    Congress created the Office of the Secretary 44 years ago 
at a time of crisis when the nation faced severe energy 
shortages and disruptions. The idea was to consolidate the 
Federal Government's energy functions in the Secretary's hands 
so that she could ensure the effective management and 
administration of the nation's energy policies and programs. 
But the job is even bigger than that. The Secretary is 
responsible for overseeing the nation's nuclear arsenal and 
ensuring that our nuclear deterrent remains secure and 
effective. You will be responsible for making the fuel that 
propels the nuclear navy in guarding our nation against nuclear 
proliferation. You must also manage the world's most 
challenging environmental cleanup at Hanford and at the Cold 
War nuclear sites, and oversee our four Power Marketing 
Administrations (PMAs) which supply electricity and federal 
dams to customers in 34 states. You will be responsible for 
leading the world's premier science and technology enterprises, 
the 17 national laboratories we depend on for the scientific 
discoveries and technology innovations that we need to meet our 
energy needs here, and to keep America strong and secure.
    I am delighted that President Biden has nominated you, 
Governor Granholm, for this important position. I know you and 
your family. We served as governors, as I have said before. You 
served two terms as Governor of Michigan during an especially 
challenging time, which I know Senator Stabenow knows very well 
and remembers very well, in your state's history as it 
weathered the Great Recession and the collapse of the auto 
industry. You were up to that challenge. You helped save the 
auto industry. You diversified Michigan's economy, brought in 
new investment and new industries, and created new jobs. 
Governor Granholm demonstrated in Michigan the vision and 
leadership that we need to tackle the challenges that we now 
face at a national level, including tackling climate change, 
while ensuring no worker is left behind and our energy security 
remains uncompromised. We are very fortunate to have such a 
well-qualified and talented nominee for the important position 
of Secretary of Energy.
    I wholeheartedly support your nomination and am very 
pleased to welcome you to our Committee.
    I would like to recognize Senator Barrasso and Stabenow at 
this point. So, Senator Barrasso, for your opening statement.

               STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING

    Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you very much, Chairman 
Murkowski and Chairman Manchin. I want to thank you both for 
your leadership of this Committee last Congress--for the 
productivity, partnership, the friendship and how we all work 
so closely together. But it was under the leadership of the two 
of you that really made it all happen, the successful passage 
of legislation and we had, what, 37 separate Senate bills that 
are going to work together to boost advanced nuclear power, 
carbon capture technologies, energy storage, critical minerals, 
renewables, many other energy sources that might have not been 
possible had it not been for the combined work of the two of 
you to make sure that all of the Committee worked together. And 
Chairman Murkowski, you have such a strong history and 
tradition of leading this Committee so well.
    Senator Manchin mentioned your father had the gavel. I 
think it was, is it that gavel? Well, you better not pass that 
one along. That belongs in a museum somewhere in Alaska. But I 
will tell you, your father could not have done what you have 
done. We are just so wonderfully proud of the job of this 
Committee in the bipartisan way you have done it, and you have 
made all of us proud and Alaska proud. We are grateful for your 
leadership of the Committee.
    I am hoping to follow in your footsteps. You have been on 
this Committee since 2002 and lead the Republicans since 2009. 
Thank you for the way you have led the Committee. Over the 
years we have all had the opportunity to travel together in a 
bipartisan way to remote areas, to take a look at what was 
happening with changing climate in some of the most remote 
locations in Alaska. We have been to Greenland together, to 
Svalbard, to Northern Norway, all looking at issues related to 
climate. Senator Cantwell has joined us on those along with 
Senator Whitehouse, and we are going to continue in that way in 
the future--working together in a bipartisan way in addressing 
the major issues.
    So I want to continue the partnership that you have had 
with Senator Manchin, to work closely with him. We met 
yesterday. We are going to continue working in a very 
productive way, because energy is the lifeblood not just of 
Alaska but also of Wyoming and of West Virginia, and in working 
together we can achieve goals in the Committee.
    I do want to thank and congratulate and welcome Governor 
Granholm to the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. 
Our nation's energy production benefits every American whether 
it is power generation from coal, from natural gas, uranium, 
water, sun, wind, American energy keeps the lights on in our 
schools, in our businesses, in our homes. It powers our 
vehicles, our cars and trucks and it helps grow the economy. 
The future of American energy is ingenuity, investment, 
invention, and innovation. I think this is something that both 
parties and everyone up here at the dais agrees on. Recently 
Republicans and Democrats worked together to enact laws that 
promote carbon capture technology, support advanced nuclear 
reactors, provide for more efficient diesel engines and prevent 
greenhouse gas emissions from air conditioners. These laws are 
going to pay significant dividends toward reducing greenhouse 
gas emissions. The end result is cleaner air and lower costs 
for the American people.
    So I look forward to working with Chairman Manchin and 
members of the Committee to build on this bipartisan record. 
The country is stronger when we do work together. Likewise, I 
am ready to work with the Biden Administration to make American 
energy as clean as we can, as fast as we can, without killing 
jobs or raising costs on American consumers. The work begins 
today as the Committee considers the nomination to serve as 
Secretary of Energy, and we have a long and distinguished 
history. You and I have had a chance to visit about that and 
Senator Manchin has mentioned your long history in energy and 
as Governor.
    The Department of Energy oversees the United States' energy 
supply. It is also responsible for carrying out the 
environmental cleanup for Cold War nuclear missions, managing 
17 national laboratories, among other responsibilities. The 
Department plays a critical role in keeping American energy and 
keeping us energy dominant. American energy dominance enables 
energy security, economic strength and environmental 
stewardship. I always talk about the three E's of energy which 
is just that, energy security, economic strength and 
environmental stewardship. Energy is called the master resource 
for a reason. It powers our nation, our military, our economy. 
It is an instrument of power, it is a force multiplier, and it 
can be used as a weapon of geopolitics. Our nation is an energy 
superpower, and I believe we need to continue to act like one.
    Much of our nation's energy comes from my home State of 
Wyoming, America's leading energy producer. Wyoming produces 
coal, oil, natural gas, and uranium. It also has incredible 
renewables. We are the world wind capital in so many ways. We 
have world class wind and large wind farms. It also has among 
the largest reserves of energy resources in the country. We 
produce 15 times more energy than we use in our state, and it 
is the biggest net energy supplier among all the states. So 
energy production is the economic lifeblood of my state. Energy 
creates good paying jobs for the people of Wyoming. It provides 
a critical resource of revenue for the state. The incoming 
Administration should not devastate our economy by implementing 
policies that undermine energy production. The last democratic 
administration went on a regulatory rampage to slow or stop 
energy production. I am not going to sit idly by, or my 
colleagues, if the Biden Administration enforces policies that 
threaten Wyoming's economy and the lifeblood of so many people 
in my home state. That is why I find some of Governor 
Granholm's past statements and executive actions troubling.
    In 2016 during a public event, the nominee stated, ``We 
ought to do everything possible we can to keep fossil fuel 
energy in the ground.'' That makes no sense for America or for 
Michigan. In 2019, 62 percent of Michigan's electricity 
generation came from coal and natural gas sources. The bottom 
line is the United States will need fossil fuels well into the 
future. Coal, oil, and natural gas are not going away, and 
America should not leave these assets stranded in the ground. I 
believe shutting down American coal, oil, and natural gas 
production will only shut down our country's economy. If you 
want skyrocketing energy costs and high unemployment, that is 
how you do it. America needs a broad energy mix--it includes 
renewable sources, nuclear power and yes, traditional fuels--
coal, oil, and natural gas.
    Traditional fuel powers three out of five American homes 
and three out of five American businesses; however, 95 percent 
of Americans' transportation. If the Biden Administration's 
nominees intend to block these critical energy sources, then I 
can't support them or that. We need to find ways to make 
expensive energy more affordable. The Biden Administration 
should not insist, as it seems to be doing, on making 
affordable energy more expensive. As the Governor addresses 
this, we want to make the Department of Energy successful. It 
is critical that today you have an opportunity to find your 
views and demonstrate that you are dedicated to all forms of 
American energy and expanding America's energy security.
    So this hearing gives us an opportunity to hear directly 
from the nominee, Governor Granholm, and for her to provide 
more clarity regarding her views, her actions as Governor and 
her visions for the Department of Energy, and I look forward to 
the testimony.
    Senator Manchin. Also, we are privileged today to have our 
colleague, Senator Stabenow, and then also Representative 
Upton, to do the introduction for Governor Granholm.
    Senator Stabenow.

              STATEMENT OF HON. DEBBIE STABENOW, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM MICHIGAN

    Senator Stabenow. Well, thank you very much, incoming Chair 
Manchin. I want to first just lend my voice and thank our 
wonderful Chairwoman. Senator Murkowski has really led us 
through some very important times and important 
accomplishments, and I congratulate you on not only the 
accomplishments, but the way in which you lead, and especially 
in situations where we worked together, tirelessly, to find a 
way to help the people of Flint. I appreciate very much your 
partnership in that and your willingness to work hard for us to 
work through what we needed to do to help people in the lead 
water crisis in Flint. So thank you, and I am looking forward 
to working with our incoming Chair and Ranking Member. I 
appreciate all three of you today, even though the organizing 
resolution is not official, working together. This is typical 
of the bipartisanship on the Committee and of your leadership, 
Madam Chair. So, thank you, again.
    It is really my honor today to introduce my friend and the 
former Governor of Michigan, and with your support, our new 
Secretary of Energy, Jennifer Granholm. And as always, her 
partner in life, Dan, is by her side. It is wonderful to see 
you, Dan, and we welcome you to the Committee as well.
    Right now, our nation faces a whole host of challenges, 
from getting this pandemic under control, to building back the 
economy and our middle class, to updating our infrastructure 
for our clean energy future, to taking steps to solve a climate 
crisis. These are big challenges, and big challenges require 
big solutions. That is why Governor Jennifer Granholm is such a 
great fit to lead the Department of Energy. Governor Granholm 
knows how to meet big challenges because she has done it 
before. In addition, I should say, first, during the Great 
Recession, Governor Granholm's leadership helped rescue the 
U.S. auto industry and save one million auto jobs. In addition, 
she helped then-Vice President Biden implement a recovery plan 
that sparked a clean energy jobs boom to diversify Michigan's 
economy and made our state a leader in clean energy jobs.
    We need more of that right now, and I cannot think of 
anyone better suited to make that happen than Governor 
Granholm. She knows how a good job can change a family's 
future, because she lived it. Her own parents moved to America 
from Canada in search of better jobs and a brighter future. 
Better jobs and a brighter future, that is what Americans need 
right now. We can invest in clean energy and create millions of 
good paying jobs right here at home in America. We can grow a 
stronger, more inclusive middle class from coast to coast and 
in every community in between. We can put our national labs and 
our user facilities, including Michigan's own facility for rare 
isotope beams, to work solving our nation's toughest challenges 
and unlocking the secrets of the universe. And we can take real 
action to address the climate crisis, an issue that is already 
harming Michigan's Great Lakes, our economy, and our people.
    I have heard it said that the Department of Energy really 
could be called the Department of Science and Technology, and I 
know few people who are more passionate about the possibilities 
of science and technology than Governor Jennifer Granholm. I 
look forward to supporting her nomination enthusiastically, and 
I am excited about the new Michigan energy she will bring to 
the Department of Energy. So I am honored to introduce Governor 
Granholm and join with my colleague in the House, Congressman 
Fred Upton, in doing so.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Stabenow.
    And now we have Congressman Upton for his introduction.
    Congressman Upton.

                 STATEMENT OF HON. FRED UPTON, 
                      U.S. REPRESENTATIVE

    Mr. Upton. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's a delight to 
join my colleague from Michigan, Debbie Stabenow, but also with 
you, with Lisa Murkowski, John Barrasso. I've been to Svalbard 
too. But so many friends that previously served on the Energy 
and Commerce Committee in the House.
    You know, during my time in the House I've been glad to 
work with Energy Secretaries from both Republican and 
Democratic administrations whether it was Bodman or Chu, Moniz, 
Perry, Brouillette, or Michigan's own Spence Abraham. I could 
always pick up the phone and call them regardless of party or 
whether we agreed on the particular issue that it was about. I 
also know that I've got that same relationship with Secretary 
Granholm to be, Governor Granholm, when she is, in fact, 
confirmed by your body.
    You know, when she was Governor of Michigan, Jennifer and I 
worked on a number of things important to both Southwest 
Michigan, but our state as a whole. Those of us from Michigan 
know the immense importance of the Great Lakes, both from the 
environmental and the economic standpoint. My district is on 
Lake Michigan and I can name dozens of times where we worked 
together on issues ranging from lake cleanup to beach erosion, 
harbor dredging, keeping that awful Asian carp out of our lake. 
But we also worked hand in glove on Harbor Shores project which 
has helped me to turn Benton Harbor from a distressed community 
with a history of racial strife into a real tourist 
destination.
    I look forward to continuing that relationship with her as 
Secretary of high capacity as the Republican leader of the 
Energy Subcommittee in the House. Our nation is certainly 
facing a number of very pressing issues in its energy sector. 
We need to ensure policies that continue down the path of a 
clean energy economy while ensuring an all-of-the-above 
approach, fosters innovation, provides a reliable and 
affordable energy supply. I also look forward to continuing to 
work with Jennifer and the new Administration in establishing a 
permanent repository for spent nuclear fuel so we can finally 
get this stuff off the shores of Lake Michigan. We also need to 
do all that we can to prevent cyberattacks on our nation's 
grid.
    And Joe, as you mentioned, she and I worked with John 
Dingle, with Dave Camp, John Boehner, Debbie Stabenow, Gary 
Peters in both the Obama and Bush Administrations in a 
bipartisan way to rescue the auto industry. So important, not 
only for Michigan but for the entire nation as well. You know, 
we might not always agree on how we can achieve these goals, 
but I know and I'm confident that our previous experience and 
partnership will, in fact, allow us to have an open line of 
communication so that we can work together to solve these very 
important issues.
    And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my 
time. Thank you for letting me be present for this very 
important confirmation hearing.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Congressman. We appreciate it 
very much.
    With that, Governor Granholm, if you would stand, please. 
We have applied to all nominees a requirement that they be 
sworn in in connection with their testimony.
    If you would, please raise your right hand.
    Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to 
give to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
    Ms. Granholm. I do.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you. You may be seated.
    Before you begin your statement, I am going to ask three 
questions addressed to each nominee before this Committee.
    My first is, will you be available to appear before this 
Committee and other Congressional committees to represent 
departmental positions and respond to issues of concern to the 
Congress?
    Ms. Granholm. I will.
    Senator Manchin. Are you aware of any personal holdings, 
investments, or interests that could constitute a conflict of 
interest or create the appearance of such a conflict, should 
you be confirmed and assume the office to which you have been 
nominated by the President?
    Ms. Granholm. There are no conflicts, and I have abided by 
the Office of Government Ethics' direction.
    Senator Manchin. Good.
    Are you involved or do you have any assets held in a blind 
trust?
    Ms. Granholm. No.
    Senator Manchin. You may begin your statement.
    Ms. Granholm. Great.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you.

  STATEMENT OF HON. JENNIFER M. GRANHOLM, NOMINATED TO BE THE 
                      SECRETARY OF ENERGY

    Ms. Granholm. Thank you so much, Chairman Murkowski----
    Senator Manchin. I am sorry, you can introduce your family 
with you here too.
    Ms. Granholm. I will.
    Senator Manchin. Okay.
    Ms. Granholm. As part of my statement, but this, yes, is 
Dan Mulhern, my great spouse, partner, best friend, et cetera.
    Chairman Murkowski and Ranking Member Manchin, soon to be 
Chairman, and soon to be Ranking Member Barrasso and 
distinguished members of the Committee, thank you so much for 
holding this Committee hearing so expeditiously. And I'd like 
to begin by thanking Senator Stabenow and Congressman Upton for 
their gracious words. Senator Stabenow has been an ally as we 
have navigated the struggles of the recession, and Michigan is 
indeed fortunate to have such an incredibly hard working and 
indefatigable senior senator. And Congressman Upton, thank you 
for your words of bipartisanship. I have thoroughly enjoyed 
working with you over the years and here, too, the people of 
West Michigan are lucky to have a man of Fred Upton's integrity 
and intelligence looking out for them.
    I introduced my husband, who I want to thank from the 
bottom of my heart for his love and support as I pursue public 
service again.
    Just a little about me. As Senator Stabenow mentioned, I 
was brought to this country from Canada at four years old by 
parents seeking economic opportunity. And as I mentioned when I 
was nominated, my parents both only had high school degrees. My 
dad was born into dire poverty in a cabin with no running water 
in a rural part of Canada. My dad's father shot and killed 
himself out of desperation during the Great Depression, because 
he couldn't find work for himself to support my grandmother and 
their three children. My dad was three years old at the time. 
So I bring to this role the sincere belief that we, in America, 
cannot leave our people behind.
    I'd like to share a bit about the focus that I will bring 
to the Department of Energy, if I'm confirmed. I'll focus on, 
DOE does a huge number of things, but I want to talk about 
three missions. First is the security of America through the 
National Security--Nuclear Security Administration and the 
cleanup of that Cold War legacy, ensuring that we can protect 
our nation. Second, supporting the amazing, amazing scientific 
work that's being done at the DOE's 17 national laboratories 
and other facilities across the country, including on climate 
change and emissions reductions. And third, taking that 
research to scale, deploying it, to create jobs for Americans. 
And it's that last point that I want to pause on for a moment 
because I believe I was nominated by President Biden because I 
am obsessed with creating good paying jobs in America. Having 
been the Governor of Michigan when the automotive industry was 
on its knees, I understand what it's like to look into the eyes 
of men and women who have lost their jobs through no fault of 
their own. Michigan is a place where workers could have a house 
and two cars and enough left over to take their family on a 
vacation, to a cottage on a lake up north, all because they had 
a good job in a factory and then the bottom dropped out.
    The recession and the auto bankruptcies hit and at that 
time our unemployment rate was the highest in the nation. In 
Detroit it was 25 percent. And because we had such an auto-
dependent state, I knew we had to diversify, both inside the 
auto industry and outside the auto industry. When I say inside, 
I mean we built car 1.0. We had to build 2.0, the electric 
vehicle, including the guts to that vehicle which is the 
battery and diversifying outside the auto industry we had to 
create new jobs in new sectors and the most promising of those 
sectors was in clean energy. And so, we went to work. And 
today, one-third of all North American battery production is in 
Michigan. Michigan is one of the top five states for clean 
energy patents and 126,000 Michiganders were working in the 
clean energy sector before COVID-19 hit.
    This is a sector that every single state can benefit from. 
The products that reduce carbon emissions are going to create a 
$23 trillion global market by 2030. That is a massive 
opportunity. So we can buy electric car batteries from Asia or 
we can make them in America. We can install wind turbines from 
Denmark or we can make them in America. We can allow other 
countries to corner the market on carbon reduction technologies 
like carbon capture, utilization and storage or we can put our 
workers in good paying jobs manufacturing and installing those 
solutions in America, and we can export them all as well.
    So, in talking with you all, thank you so much for the 
conversations we've had, Democrats and Republicans. I know that 
you share the belief of making energy in America and, if 
confirmed, I look forward to working with you to bring good 
paying jobs to every state and to make sure that no worker gets 
left behind.
    I'm happy to take your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Granholm follows:]
    [[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Governor.
    Normally, the Chairman is entitled to ask the first 
questions, but since Senator Murkowski is still our Chair, I 
wanted to make sure that she asks our first questions. Senator 
Murkowski.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want all the 
Committee members to continue to enjoy the fine, clear Alaskan 
glacier water that we have been providing the Committee for the 
past couple years. I think we might have some leftovers you can 
use.
    Senator Manchin. I hope so.
    The Chairman. Governor Granholm, thank you for being before 
the Committee. Thank you for the time that you have given me on 
the phone. I hope these first questions will be pretty easy, 
pretty direct.
    In all of the opportunities that I have to discuss with 
nominees before any president's cabinet, I ask them about the 
Arctic because this is an area that, I think, has been 
overlooked for far too long. My colleagues have noted that I 
have invited them on some opportunities to see what goes on in 
the Arctic and to determine then and understand for themselves 
America's role in the Arctic. In recent years, Alaska and the 
Department of Energy worked together to advance energy security 
in the Arctic. Last year we got funding to revive this Arctic 
Energy Office that I shared with you. This is going to be a key 
initiative in advancing things like the microgrids, the new 
technologies we are looking to, to mitigate the impact of 
climate change in the Arctic as well as to reduce costs.
    So what I would like from you publicly this morning is your 
commitment to remain engaged with these issues ensuring that 
the Arctic Energy Office continues with its purpose, but also 
recognizing what the National Renewable Energy Lab, NREL, has 
done in concert with the Cold Climate Housing Research Center 
that exists, the partnership then that comes with that to 
explore and understand cold climate technologies, maintaining 
that energy security. I would just like your commitment to have 
a focus in these areas.
    Ms. Granholm. You have that commitment.
    The Chairman. Very good. We look forward to that and to the 
opportunity to demonstrate the advantages of the pioneering 
going on in cold weather, weather climates and America's energy 
security.
    You have mentioned security for America. We all want that. 
We all understand that. We all want to move to cleaner energy 
technologies and one of the strong initiatives that came out of 
our Energy Act of last year that was passed into law, was the 
effort that I had led along with Senator Manchin here, our 
Mineral Security Act. This, to me, is as significant as 
anything going forward. When we think about vulnerabilities and 
American security, because as you speak to the opportunity to 
build those wind turbines here, to do more with all clean 
energy technologies, if we don't have the guts, to use your 
term, if we don't have the minerals to build these because we 
rely on China, because we rely on other countries that are, 
perhaps, not reliable friends, this places us in a vulnerable 
position.
    What I would ask of you this morning is to share with the 
Committee how you believe that our mineral security is a 
national security imperative as well as an imperative in terms 
of what more we can be doing as a nation to provide for those 
jobs that you are talking about. This can be contentious 
because there are some people that don't want to dig that hole, 
that don't want to mine for the resource here because they 
don't like digging the hole. But the reality is, is that 
resource is necessary to make that next step for that clean 
energy economy that you are talking about. So if you can please 
address----
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah.
    The Chairman. ----our mineral insecurity and what that 
means for us.
    Ms. Granholm. Thank you, Senator, for the question.
    I think it is a very important question if we are to build 
the supply chain, for example, for batteries. As one example, 
if we allow for China to corner the market on lithium or for 
the Democratic Republic of Congo to be the place where 
everybody gets cobalt, when there may be child labor or human 
rights violations associated with that supply, then we are 
missing a massive opportunity for our own security, but also 
for a market for our trading partners who also may want to have 
access to minerals that are produced in a responsible way. And 
responsible way is an important thing to mention. We know that 
we can mine in a responsible way, but I do think it's really 
important for us and thank you for your leadership on the 
Energy Act, because there was direction to the Department of 
Energy to work on this issue of critical minerals and rare 
earths which I am very enthusiastically supportive of for both 
jobs and energy security and supply chain security in the 
United States.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Senator.
    Governor, if you could, just basically explain your 
thoughts about energy independence and the importance of the 
United States of America to be energy independent. This 
includes using all-of-the-above energy in the best fashion, 
cleanest fashion, and technology that we may be able to 
produce.
    Ms. Granholm. Yup, thank you, Senator. I really appreciate 
this question, because I do think that we should be energy 
secure and I do think that we should be doing it in the 
cleanest way possible. And so, this is where the Department of 
Energy comes in and, if confirmed, I want to work with you to 
continue to push on carbon management solutions that get to the 
goal of net zero carbon emissions by 2050. And if you look at 
the internet--Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, they 
have said that you can't get to that goal of net carbon zero 
without technologies that are being deployed and researched at 
the Department of Energy like carbon capture, use and 
sequestration, like hydrogen solutions, like direct air 
capture. There is a series of technologies that the Department 
of Energy is working on to reduce and manage carbon emissions. 
And I think that is an important piece of the energy mix to 
make us secure and to have us reach the goal of net zero carbon 
emissions by 2050.
    Senator Manchin. Also, you know, there are an awful lot of 
states that have been heavy lifters for many, many years. We 
have Senators from Wyoming, Alaska, Michigan, and West 
Virginia, whose states have done the heavy lifting to get the 
country where we are today. And I think we have talked 
previously about this, people feel like they have been left 
behind. So in those areas that have been ravaged because of the 
market changes, the market is changing. We know that, and 
people are coming to realize that. How do we keep them in an 
opportunity situation? What have you seen that the Department 
of Energy could help us with?
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, this is the most important question, 
honestly, Senator Manchin, because we know that this transition 
is happening and we cannot leave our people behind. And this 
technology, the ability to, not just research it, but to take 
it to scale. I mean, for example, you look at blue hydrogen, 
for example, taking natural gas and from it creating hydrogen 
that is clean. Well, that hydrogen requires equipment and the 
equipment has like steam methane reformers. Who is making that 
equipment? If we are getting that equipment from another 
country, we're missing an opportunity to put our people to 
work.
    So in West Virginia and in other coal states and other 
fossil fuel states, there is an opportunity for us to 
specialize in the technologies that reduce carbon emissions to 
make those technologies here, to put people to work here and to 
be able to look at other ways to diversify as well. And if I 
could just say a word, I mean, Michigan, obviously, had relied, 
has relied for 100 years on the internal combustion engine 
which is powered by fossil fuels. And when the recession hit 
and the bottom dropped out, you know, and there were senators 
and leaders from Michigan for years who had battled CAFE 
standards because we wanted to protect our industry. I totally 
get that. But as we say in Michigan, in deference to the 
Detroit Redwings, you know, Wayne Gretzky has said, ``You skate 
to where the puck is going.'' So we saw where the puck was 
headed and the puck was headed toward cleaner solutions.
    And so, we weren't going to abandon the automobile, but if 
we could make the next generation of automobile and be 
successful at it, that is an opportunity for job creation. And 
now, as I mentioned, 126,000 people in Michigan are working in 
clean energy where they had not before. So my point is, these 
place-based solutions to be able to take advantage of expertise 
and comparative advantages of states and build on that to allow 
them to diversify inside and outside their main industries is a 
partnership that we could have through the Department of 
Energy.
    Senator Manchin. I have one more question, if you could. As 
the transition is happening, as we know, would you be 
supportive--because there is an awful lot of money that is 
going to be put toward the Department of Energy for research 
and development. Any of this type of research development and 
new technology and manufacturing tax credits incentives--would 
you be supportive of having a priority for those jobs, or that 
money, being used in the states that lost traditional jobs that 
have carried this country?
    Ms. Granholm. A thousand percent, yes.
    Senator Manchin. That is all I need.
    Thank you, Madam. Thank you, Senator.
    At this time we have Senator Barrasso.
    Senator Barrasso. Thanks, Senator Manchin.
    Just to follow up on Senator Manchin's first question, a 
series of short questions. If you would just, kind of, respond 
briefly.
    The United States is the world's largest oil and natural 
gas producer, just a fact. On balance is that a good thing or a 
bad thing?
    Ms. Granholm. It is a good thing, and I look forward to 
working with you to make sure that it's clean and reduces GHG 
emissions.
    Senator Barrasso. And the United States has, if not the 
lowest, then among the lowest energy prices in the developed 
world. Again, on balance, a good thing or bad thing?
    Ms. Granholm. Good thing, of course.
    Senator Barrasso. Jobs in oil, natural gas, and coal 
sectors pay well above the national average. On balance, good 
thing?
    Ms. Granholm. Good thing, of course.
    Senator Barrasso. Largely because of hydraulic fracturing 
U.S. emissions are now at the lowest level since the early 
1990s. On balance, good thing? Bad----
    Ms. Granholm. Yes.
    Senator Barrasso. And U.S. oil exports, natural gas 
exports, coal exports to other countries make us influential 
suppliers in the global energy markets. Good thing? Bad----
    Ms. Granholm. It's important to be influential in the 
global energy market, yes.
    Senator Barrasso. So last week the Biden Administration 
issued a 60-day ban on oil, gas, coal leasing, and permitting 
on federal lands and waters. Now half of the State of Wyoming 
is federally-owned. Alaska, it is a lot higher percentage than 
that. Did President Biden or his advisors seek your counsel on 
the ban?
    Ms. Granholm. I knew that it was coming. It was part of the 
campaign promise of President Biden.
    Senator Barrasso. Did you encourage him to issue the ban 
then?
    Ms. Granholm. I didn't have a specific conversation with 
him about it myself.
    Senator Barrasso. Yes a long-term ban on oil, gas leasing 
is going to cost about 62,000 jobs in New Mexico, and we have 
the Senator from New Mexico here; about 33,000 jobs in Wyoming; 
18,000 jobs in Colorado. A long-term ban is going to cut 
revenues to New Mexico and Wyoming by hundreds of millions of 
dollars which these states use for K-2 public education and 
other essential services. I am just curious how a long-term ban 
is consistent with the President's goal of unifying our country 
and putting Americans back to work and helping our economies 
grow, how is that all consistent?
    Ms. Granholm. I think the President's plan of building back 
better which would create more jobs in energy, clean energy, 
than the jobs that might be sacrificed. But I will say this, no 
job, we don't want to see any jobs sacrificed. And that's why 
this, when you opened up your remarks, sir, your remarks about 
technology were so important. This is why reducing GHG 
emissions is so important on, in the fossil fuel arena. The 
moratorium on public lands, I know, for those states that have 
these jobs in abundance, this is something we're going to have 
to work on together to ensure that people remain employed.
    But I will say that the licenses that currently are 
operating are not going to be disrupted. They will continue to 
operate. Then the oil and gas industry, in particular, they've 
got 10,000 licenses that they have and that will not be 
disrupted that they can continue to permit and deploy and 
extract energy from. It is only on future licenses that this 
moratorium is. So it gives us some time to be able to work on 
creating jobs and diversifying and providing good paying jobs 
in every pocket of the country. And to Senator Manchin's point, 
I know that part of what Joe Biden has put together is a, sort 
of, SWAT team inside of the Federal Government to focus on 
communities that are, that have powered America and to make 
sure that we don't leave those workers behind.
    Senator Barrasso. In 2016 you stated the U.S. should, ``Do 
everything we possibly can to keep fossil fuel energy in the 
ground.'' Do you stand by those remarks? Do you want to comment 
related to that?
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, I think it is important that as we 
develop fossil fuels that we also develop the technology to 
reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
    Senator Barrasso. In December 2020, December 29th, just a 
little over a month ago, USA Today published an Op Ed entitled, 
``Jennifer Granholm's Energy Record in Michigan Should Frighten 
America.'' The Op Ed alleges that as Governor you directed 
hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars to battery, solar, and 
other green energy companies that failed to deliver on their 
job creation promises. One of the highlights, you talked about 
one of the examples was A123 Systems, an advanced battery 
company, promised to create 3,000 jobs. In 2009, the Obama 
Administration awarded A123 Systems a $249 million grant. Your 
administration provided more than $141 million in credits and 
subsidies. In 2012, they filed for bankruptcy, were later 
bought by a Chinese company, restructured in federal bankruptcy 
court and stopped manufacturing in Michigan altogether. In 
short, American taxpayers spent close to $400 million to 
subsidize a technology transfer, basically, to the Chinese.
    So based on this record, could you provide us something in 
terms of what confidence we should have, if you are confirmed, 
that you will be able to invest U.S. taxpayer dollars wisely?
    Ms. Granholm. Thank you, Senator.
    First, that article is incorrect. In Michigan we have 
something called the Michigan Economic Growth Authority that 
offers tax credits to firms that promise to build, create a 
certain number of jobs, but if they don't, they don't get the 
funds. And so, in Michigan, because of the way that tax credit 
is structured, that's--we don't pay out if firms don't deliver. 
I'm really proud, actually, of my record in Michigan in terms 
of seeding the area for battery technology. As I say, one-third 
of all battery facilities now in North America are in Michigan 
as a result. We should not be wasting taxpayer dollars. There's 
no doubt about that.
    And the money that was the Loan Guarantee Program that the 
Loan Program Office at the Department of Energy was/is 
responsible for, they too, in fact in Michigan, for every 
dollar in tax credits that we put out, we got $2.30 back in 
investment. And that's the kind of return that we should be 
looking for. The taxpayers of the United States have received 
$500 million back from the loans that the Loan Program Office 
has given out. And I hope that we don't look at some failures 
along the way as a reason not to invest in technologies that 
banks are not going to invest in because they haven't been 
deployed yet.
    And this is why, I think, the Loan Program Office is a huge 
opportunity for all of your states to be able to see 
technologies deployed and to--unfortunately, I think the idea 
that the government's incentives are not, because there may be 
one or two issues where the companies themselves, for market 
reasons or because China has come in and bigfooted in some way. 
Those should not be reasons why the U.S. does not get in the 
game. You better, we better believe that China is in this game. 
They are aggressively competing. States, individually, are 
bringing a knife to a gunfight and without a federal partner in 
making sure that we can get these jobs in America, then we will 
be losing globally. So I hope that we can work together to 
ensure that the Loan Program Office and the state programs 
across the country are successful and are supported and in 
partnership with the private sector to make sure that we create 
jobs for people.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Wyden.
    Senator Wyden. Thank you, Senator Manchin.
    And Governor, welcome. It is a pleasure to have you on a 
day when the Biden Administration is coming out swinging on 
climate change, and as Governor you worked relentlessly on this 
issue. So clean energy can create more high skill, high wage 
jobs. And it is jobs that I am going to focus on.
    After Oregonians battled brutal wildfires in the Fall of 
2020, I was asked often about my 21st Century Civilian 
Conservation Corps legislation that would put thousands of 
people to work in the woods in a dozen ways that address the 
effects of climate change. Now we learned today that the 
President is considering creating a Climate Change Corps which 
is on the same page as our discussion in the Pacific Northwest. 
Now at the Department of Energy, you would have the ability to 
do daring, cutting-edge research that can arm our climate 
change and conservation fighters with the smartest, science-
based strategies for reducing carbon in our communities. I know 
you are up for this, and I would like to hear a little bit 
about your thoughts.
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, well, thank you for that, and I'm very 
excited to be able to take technology to scale. So for example, 
off of the West Coast and Alaska, and Senator Murkowski and I 
talked about this as well, and in Washington State, you've got 
an amazing coastline and you've got amazing waves. And so, to 
have offshore wind be an opportunity for us to gain clean 
energy is huge, but in--but the shelf is very steep. And so, 
the next wave, potentially, of technology for offshore is 
perhaps on platforms, perhaps there are platforms that have 
been built by those who also built oil rigs. So there's an 
opportunity for diversification or hydrokinetic energy, wave 
power, another technology that, I think, would put people to 
work whether it's the Climate Corps, which I'm very excited 
about as well, or people who have been displaced by the changes 
to our economy.
    The bottom line is technology, whether it is wind or next 
generation solar or utility scale battery technology coming out 
of the laboratories or battery technology for vehicles or 
geothermal or you name it, it is very exciting to be able to 
imagine not just the idea, but the deployment of this 
technology that puts people to work and generates clean energy.
    Senator Wyden. I have another question, but I just want to 
make it clear that I think the important work that is being 
done on climate, our 21st Century Civilian Conservation Corps, 
is an ideal fit with the cutting-edge research that you are 
doing at the Department of Energy that will arm our climate 
warriors and mobilize our communities to help us reduce these 
horrendous fires that we are seeing.
    I am going to turn to the issue of Hanford. As you know, 
Senator Cantwell and I care deeply about this issue because the 
Columbia River, which Hanford adjoins, is our lifeblood. And 
here is the problem. We have spent billions and billions of 
dollars to turn the toxic waste into material that can be 
stored safely, but not a single ounce of waste has actually 
been treated. And so what happens is we have all these 
failures, and then what happens is people just kind of kick the 
can down the road. So we have talked about approaches like new 
tanks to temporarily secure the waste, or something called 
grouting which keeps the waste in place. We need to really have 
a concrete, specific game plan to complete this decades-long 
effort and actually deal with the safety of the people in 
Oregon and Washington, in particular. Senator Cantwell has been 
doing good work on this for years, and we work in partnership 
on it.
    Your thoughts? What are we going to do to finally deal with 
safety and protect the people in the Northwest against, 
basically, what has just been a kicking the can down the road 
strategy?
    Ms. Granholm. Thank you, Senator Wyden, and thank you, 
Senator Cantwell, for your discussion with me yesterday on this 
as well. I am well aware this is the largest and longest 
cleanup project that has occurred.
    Senator Wyden. It is the longest running battle since the 
Trojan War.
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Granholm. And you were right that we cannot kick it 
down the road, that we have to take steps every single year to 
address this issue. I know it is complex and I appreciated the 
conversation that I had with Senator Cantwell yesterday in 
discussing some of the steps that have been taken, but there 
are so many more that need to be taken. So you have my 
assurance, both of you, that this is going to be a priority. I 
know that every Energy Secretary who has come up for 
confirmation is asked this question and they all say it is a 
priority and I know it is complicated, but I also know that we 
have seen some positive steps in the past few years in terms of 
carving out pieces, taking care of the most, the lowest hanging 
fruit. We still have some very difficult, highly radioactive 
waste that we have to deal with, but the bottom line is I will 
make sure that this is high level in the Department and I look 
forward to working with you on it.
    Senator Wyden. Hearing that it is urgent business for you 
is what the people of the Pacific Northwest want to hear.
    Ms. Granholm. Urgent.
    Senator Wyden. Thank you.
    Senator Manchin. Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Governor Granholm, it is good to see you today.
    Ms. Granholm. Thank you.
    Senator Lee. Thanks for visiting with me briefly yesterday.
    I wanted to continue to talk to you a little bit about some 
energy policy issues, some issues that would fall in front of 
your portfolio, if you were to be confirmed to this position. 
As you know and as we discussed briefly yesterday, I think, the 
Department of Energy has an entity called the Office of Fossil 
Energy. That office plays a significant role in, among other 
things, approving the export of natural gas from the United 
States. If a company wants to export natural gas to another 
country, a country with whom we don't have an established trade 
agreement that is applicable, then they have to go through the 
Office of Fossil Energy and they have to make a public interest 
determination before allowing them.
    What can you tell me about how your climate considerations 
might be factored into that analysis, if you were confirmed, 
and would climate change considerations impact your 
determination specifically with regard to LNG exports?
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, I mean, the Natural Gas Act of 1938 
dictates the requirements and the considerations and I would 
certainly abide by that Act, including issues related to 
whether something is in the public interest, what the economic, 
what the geopolitical concerns are. I would abide by the 
direction that Congress has given through the Natural Gas Act.
    Senator Lee. Okay, let's talk about how those 
determinations might work. I suppose that in many instances 
foreign consumption of American produced LNG would probably 
serve our geopolitical interests, would they not?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes, if, for example, I know that some 
Senators are interested in this in the smaller exports to 
island nations that might be using pure coal or diesel, et 
cetera, it might lower the greenhouse gas emissions for those 
countries. And I would say I would also want to work with the 
natural gas providers to see if we can continue to reduce 
greenhouse gas emissions at the point of production.
    Senator Lee. In other words, American natural gas might 
well be a lot cleaner than whatever else they would otherwise 
burn, is that----
    Ms. Granholm. Yes, in terms of emissions, that's true.
    Senator Lee. Yes. Do you think the Department of Energy 
ought to play some role in promoting American energy abroad?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes.
    Senator Lee. Let's talk about some issues related to 
mining, really quickly. Although you are not as involved in 
mining as the Department of the Interior would be, the 
Department of Energy does have a significant role to play 
there.
    Mineral markets of all sorts have been suffering as a 
result of a variety of factors, some of them regulatory, some 
of them cyclical and economic, some of them related to 
restrictions on access to federal lands where we have a lot of 
minerals. So for example, uranium producers, in 2019, produced 
around 173,000 pounds of domestic uranium concentrate, or U308. 
This is the lowest domestic production, as I understand it, 
that has occurred since before 1949. In order to boost domestic 
uranium production, the Trump Administration requested $150 
million to establish the Uranium Reserve Program. Congress 
allocated $75 million to that program, but it appears that the 
work has not yet commenced. This is a significant issue for the 
uranium industry, but it doesn't appear to address some of the 
reforms that might be necessary to help the mining industry as 
a whole.
    Do you have any ideas on how you would intend, if you are 
confirmed, to implement the Uranium Reserve Program at the 
Department of Energy?
    Ms. Granholm. Right, I certainly would abide by the 
direction of Congress. I know that there is that $75 million 
there and, I think, you know, broadening the scope of your 
question to include other critical minerals. I was saying 
earlier that I think that these minerals can be mined in a 
responsible way, in a way that respects the environment but it 
also serves to shore up our ability to produce products, like 
batteries, for markets internationally. And we don't want to be 
at the--under the thumb of China or other countries that may 
have, as their geopolitical strategic interest, to corner the 
market on critical minerals.
    We need to be independent. And so, I'm eager to work with 
folks on all sides of the aisle to make sure that the United 
States has its own critical supply.
    Senator Lee. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you.
    Senator Cantwell.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would be 
remiss if I didn't say something about Senator Murkowski's 
comments this morning and working with everybody. There is a 
great article in the Seattle Times this morning about the Smart 
Grid legislation that we worked on together, and so it is good 
to know that people are finally seeing the remnants of that 
legislation that you worked so hard on, that we all worked so 
hard on, actually become law. Now people in the community are 
realizing how we can take it and move it forward. So hopefully 
you will get a chance to check that article out.
    Governor Granholm, congratulations on your nomination. You 
have already, I can see just from the few questions you have 
had, gotten a sense of the vast issues of energy policy and 
challenges facing America. You and I had a chance to talk about 
Hanford, but I just wanted to reiterate it being one of the 
largest cleanup projects in the entire world. Hanford is the 
Federal Government's second largest obligation after Social 
Security and Healthcare. So it is frustrating, as I mentioned 
to you often, that administrations come in and try to do it, 
and cut corners or do something. Last year the Trump 
Administration proposed funding at 46 percent below what DOE 
said was needed for the Tri-Party Agreement compliance. So I 
hope that you can commit to putting forth a budget that helps 
DOE keep its milestones that are laid out as part of a Tri-
Party Agreement. Do you commit----
    Ms. Granholm. You have my commitment.
    Senator Cantwell. I am sorry, I----
    Ms. Granholm. I said--I'm sorry, I talked over you. Pardon 
me. I said you have my commitment.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    Well, a lot of people at home are listening. I just want to 
make sure people heard that.
    Ms. Granholm. Yes, I get that.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Cantwell. In addition, I want to give credit to 
Secretary Brouillette, because he and his team did make 
significant progress on the construction of the facility that 
Senator Wyden was commenting on. So one of the next challenges 
will be to meet a 2023 Tri-Party Agreement deadline of getting 
that facility online. I hope that is something that we can 
meet, and I hope that you will come to the Tri-Cities as soon 
as possible to see this facility.
    Ms. Granholm. I'd very much like to do that.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    As far as workforce safety, that is a major issue at 
Hanford. The HAMMER facility helps the training and skilling of 
a workforce to continue to be ready to meet all the challenges 
at Hanford. I hope you will commit to supporting that.
    Ms. Granholm. Yes.
    Senator Cantwell. And then, just in the debate or 
conversation we have just been having, you know, our national 
laboratories play a pretty big role in the next generation of 
energy policy and enabling one, in particular, project. The 
Grid Storage Launchpad at the Pacific Northwest National 
Laboratory is really important in doing the next level work on 
commercialization of long duration grid-scale storage at one-
tenth of the cost of today's lithium-ion batteries. So I hope 
that these projects at our national laboratories, like Grid 
Launch, will be priorities for you, and so will the funding.
    Ms. Granholm. Absolutely, very excited about it.
    Senator Cantwell. Great.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    The Chairman. Who is next? Senator Cassidy? [Off mic.]
    Sorry for that slight delay. Senator Cassidy, you are 
online, please go ahead.
    Senator Cassidy. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Governor, thank you again for our phone conversations. I 
enjoyed them. And I know that you and I have discussed this, 
but for the benefit of those whom I represent, I would like to 
go over some of the same things we discussed because I think 
there is, kind of, a question before the American people. Does 
the Biden Administration actually care about their jobs? You 
had mentioned, in response to Senator Barrasso, that the Biden 
Team will have a SWAT team to make sure that folks are 
employed. I am thinking they have a SWAT team to take out some 
jobs.
    The Keystone XL pipeline, 11,000 people either fully or 
partially employed, obviously unemployed. And you had mentioned 
that ideally we would replace those with green jobs. Mr. 
Buttigieg, when he was in testimony yesterday, admitted that 
those jobs will not come online quickly. Gina McCarthy in 
another interview said that the American people have sacrificed 
enough. We should not ask them to sacrifice more. So how do we 
square the fact that we are killing 11,000 jobs now, that there 
will be some, assuming that they are replaced with green jobs, 
that there will be some lag time there and yet, supposedly, the 
American people are not being asked to sacrifice anymore 
because they have suffered too much already?
    Your thoughts on that, please?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes, thank you, Senator.
    I, and I know Senator Stabenow feel this, I totally get the 
concern about job losses, totally, but this is why President 
Biden's commitment to create millions of jobs in 
infrastructure----
    Senator Cassidy. How quickly will those jobs form though? 
Mr. Buttigieg concedes that they may not come online for maybe 
years. And if you have lost a job that is putting food on your 
table now, it is cold comfort to know that years from now, 
perhaps in a different state with a different training within 
which you have, there will be another job available.
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, I completely understand what you are 
saying. What I can tell you is from my experience in Michigan 
is that when we focused on providing incentives for job 
providers to locate, in Michigan, in clean energy, they came. I 
mean, you know, Senator Manchin and Senator Stabenow have 48C 
which is, which they hope will be able to be plussed up to 
entice job providers into communities that have been left 
behind. So this is why----
    Senator Cassidy. So let me--I am sorry, because I have 
limited time.
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah.
    Senator Cassidy. I see where you are going with that, but 
obviously, there is going to be a lag time and it may happen, 
it may not happen, but those folks will not have a paycheck 
next week.
    As we all know, oil and gas is used not just for fuel, but 
also for feedstock for the plastics. You are sitting at a desk 
which is covered with some plastic to keep it from being 
scratched. It is probably built with certain glues that are 
made from the feedstock from oil and natural gas. So is it 
someplace, something we agree on that if there is decreased 
supply that prices typically would increase for oil and gas?
    Ms. Granholm. The rules, the economic rules suggest that 
when the supply goes down, the price goes up.
    Senator Cassidy. So one thing that has been just so 
remarkable in South Louisiana and across the Gulf Coast is 
there have been companies moving, reshoring, to take advantage 
of low-cost natural gas and our workforce in order to build 
those plastic lubricants and chemicals that ship worldwide 
creating jobs here and done with our environmental standards, 
not those of other countries, which are far worse, so net 
global greenhouse gas emissions are lowered.
    My concern is that if we decrease the supply of natural gas 
and oil from the United States, we either have to import it or 
we become less competitive because our domestically-produced 
products are now higher because of a lower supply. Is there 
anything faulty with that logic?
    Ms. Granholm. The only thing I would say, sir, is that we 
would want to increase the pie of energy feedstocks. And so, as 
we consider what our energy sources are, diversifying and 
adding new sources----
    Senator Cassidy. But if we speak not of energy feedstock, 
but we speak of a feedstock for a lubricant, a plastic, a 
resin, we could grow it from corn, but then you have to have 
more fertilizer which is made with methane, in order to have 
greater yield. Again, is there, with that, not speaking of 
energy for fuel, but rather that for feedstock, was there 
anything wrong with my logic?
    Ms. Granholm. Well, here's what I would say, sir. I know 
you and I spoke about this, the opportunity to, and separate 
from cost, the opportunity to provide these products as well as 
energy in a way that reduces greenhouse gas emissions is there, 
if we take this technology to scale. So you and I spoke, I 
mean, slightly separate, you and I spoke about this idea of 
blue hydrogen and how the push boats along the Louisiana coast 
might be, for example, a pilot for that kind of technology. I 
would love to work with you on that to ensure that people are 
put to work, but in a way that reduces greenhouse gas 
emissions. I think that's true for the feedstock for products 
as well.
    Senator Cassidy. I thank you for that. I am out of time. I 
will thank you for that commitment to, kind of, seeing what we 
can do, but I will say that if we have less supply of natural 
gas and oil, we will buy it from other countries creating jobs 
there while we destroy jobs here.
    Thank you, Governor. I appreciate it, and I yield back.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Sanders, I understand, is on a call, but he will be 
returning. Is that correct? If so, we will go to Senator 
Stabenow.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you very much. I appreciate, 
Governor Granholm, your mentioning 48C, which is a tax credit 
in the 2009 Economic Stimulus package which I authored--a 30 
percent tax credit for retooling or creating clean energy 
manufacturing--and things just exploded in Michigan. A lot of 
what we saw came from that, and I am so pleased to be 
partnering with our incoming Chair, Senator Manchin, to focus 
this on particular states where there has been this transition, 
where it is so hard moving from fossil fuels, from coal, from 
jobs that are not there, are not going to be there and how to 
get new jobs as quickly as possible. I know that what we did 
then created jobs, actually, much more quickly than I thought. 
And so, I am anxious to put those kinds of things in place as 
quickly as we can.
    Not surprisingly, I want to talk to you about vehicles and 
the enormous task of making the next generation of vehicles. We 
know that Michigan auto workers are ready, willing, and able to 
do that, as are the manufacturers, and, in fact, GM is 
investing $27 billion to bring 30 different EV models to the 
market in the next four years, including trucks. Same thing 
with Ford, investing $11.5 billion. I could do an ad and go 
through all of the models, but I won't. Stellantis, formerly 
FCA, is doing the same with electrifying their popular Jeep 
line. So I am very excited to work with you, and to work with 
the President, on building back better on this plan.
    I will say one thing though, as we look at our investments, 
I am glad we are making these investments. You mentioned China, 
and the red flag over and over again is what is happening in 
China on EVs, over $100 billion in subsidies they have given, 
just in the last ten years. Of the 142 lithium-ion battery 
megafactories that are under construction, 107 are in China, 
and only nine are in the U.S. We can't sustain this. We have 
got to lean in much more quickly.
    So what role do you believe the Department of Energy can 
play in ensuring a number of things--our workers have the 
skills they need for high-tech auto jobs, our states can build 
the public charging station infrastructure--which, I think, is 
really critical now to consumer confidence and availability in 
purchasing electric vehicles--and then also, working with our 
universities and our industries to develop the new battery 
storage technologies for vehicles and renewable electricity?
    Ms. Granholm. Great, thank you, Senator. I'm so enthused by 
the numbers of, the amount of investment that's happening by 
the domestic auto industry when during the recession we were 
just----
    Senator Stabenow. Right.
    Ms. Granholm. ----you know, begging for them to survive. 
And as the proud driver of a Chevy Bolt, it's my second Bolt, 
best car ever. I just love these electric vehicles. I drive on 
sunshine. I have solar panels on my roof and plug the car in. 
It's just amazing. And I hope we can have universal acceptance 
and deployment of EVs. Obviously, the charging stations are a 
necessity so that people still do, have range anxiety and we 
want to make sure people can drive from coast to coast and stop 
everywhere in between and feel like they're not jeopardizing 
their freedom of mobility.
    Part of what Joe Biden's Executive Order was today was to 
create a whole of government effort with respect to, especially 
electric vehicles, charging. I will look forward to working 
with Mayor Buttigieg to make sure that those charging stations 
are installed along the rights, the federal rights-of-way along 
highways, et cetera. And just as sort of a separate matter from 
that, I think it's important for us to think about digging once 
and also potentially using those rights-of-way if we have to 
ground grid transmission wires or if we have to, if we would 
like to get broadband to rural communities. Those are 
opportunities while that is happening.
    The 17 national labs, obviously, are working in tandem with 
many universities across the country to create that next 
generation of STEM workers. You talked about the importance of 
a trained workforce, both the folks who are in the factories as 
well as the folks who are designing the vehicles. That's DOE's 
bread and butter, and those 17 labs are the jewels, and I'm so 
proud of that FRIB facility in Michigan attached to Michigan 
State University. And the battery technology, that too, is 
being done at, distributed throughout the lab system and it's 
for vehicles, but also energy, excuse me, utility scale energy 
storage is also being worked on. And again, we have to build 
those batteries soup to nuts, not just assemble the cells that 
come from Asia, but build the actual cells themselves inside 
the United States to make that full supply chain happen.
    I just want to say I really applaud this Committee for the 
Energy Act of 2020, because there was so much in there that 
demonstrates bipartisan support for these new technologies that 
I think this Committee can be an example of unity for the 
country based upon the work that was done at the end of last 
year.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you.
    I know I am out of time but rather than ask another 
question I am just----
    Ms. Granholm. Sorry----
    Senator Stabenow. No, that was excellent. I would just say 
that we know that medium- and heavy-duty vehicles make up 22 
percent of the energy use in our transportation sector. 
Commercial trucks contribute 60 percent of the air pollution in 
metropolitan areas and so on. So I am a huge advocate and 
proponent of the SuperTruck program and the Department of 
Energy has pushed to continue to expand that. That is where we 
can tackle this area around energy and carbon pollution the 
most, and I know that the Department is set to enter the third 
iteration with the SuperTruck 3 program. I think it is very, 
very important that we be focusing on emissions from larger 
vehicles.
    So thank you.
    Ms. Granholm. Agreed, and I look forward to working with 
you on that.
    Senator Manchin. Senator Hyde-Smith.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Governor Granholm, congratulations on this nomination, and 
I certainly welcome you and your husband today to these 
hearings.
    Mississippi has a significant energy infrastructure, 
including the largest U.S. nuclear power reactor in terms of 
generating capacity, a large petroleum refinery and natural gas 
processing plant and a liquified natural gas terminal located 
on the state's Gulf of Mexico on our coastline. And referring 
to the moratorium from the White House on new oil and gas 
leases on federal lands and waters, the Gulf of Mexico is one 
of the nation's most important regions for energy resources and 
accounts for a large portion of our crude oil in federal, 
offshore natural gas production.
    Mississippi, as I said, we have a substantial energy 
infrastructure which provides thousands of jobs and hundreds of 
millions of dollars in economic output through our ports, 
refineries, processing plants and things like that. While I 
understand the responsibility for carrying out this executive 
action is not solely the Department of Energy's responsibility, 
but it is the responsibility of the Department of Energy for 
overseeing the United States' energy supply. The Department of 
Energy has so much to do with this right now that you will be 
leading. Do you support this moratorium on oil and gas leasing 
and what am I to tell my constituents, the fossil fuels 
industry, to assure them that their jobs, their job security, 
they are secure in that gas prices will remain stable and U.S. 
energy independence will continue in the years to come? What am 
I to tell my constituents that are depending on this?
    Ms. Granholm. Thank you, Senator.
    Two things I would say briefly. One is that the moratorium 
on leases is prospective. It does not apply to those who are 
currently operating. Offshore, I believe there are the oil and 
gas industry has 12 million acres of offshore ocean water that 
is under lease, but they're only using half of that or maybe 
even 3 million of the 12, but there are 10,000 leases that are 
unused. So my point in saying is, is that the Biden 
Administration is not going to take their jobs away on existing 
leases. That's true onshore as well, 26 million acres of public 
lands that are under lease, but only half of that is being 
used. But that's the first thing.
    The second thing is, this gives us time to be able to work 
on the technologies that reduce greenhouse gas emissions that 
will keep people employed and even the oil and gas companies 
themselves have taken on net zero carbon emission goals. They 
are considering themselves, many of them, energy companies now 
and not just oil and gas companies. They see where the puck is 
going, if you will. And so, I want to work with you to make 
sure that people remain employed, that we look at Mississippi 
as an opportunity to take advantage of some of your other 
amazing assets like the forests, the cellulosic biofuel 
opportunities, et cetera, in addition to making sure that the 
technologies that are being researched in the labs of the 
Department of Energy are taken to scale and deployed so that we 
can continue to produce energy.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. My concerns are those that are Senator 
Cassidy's concerns as well. You know, there are things out 
there that we know you are focused on, but the timeframe of 
these people that would be unemployed to that time is my 
greatest concern. So I look forward to working with you on 
that.
    Ms. Granholm. Thank you.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield.
    Senator Manchin. Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is a pleasure 
to call you that.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you.
    Senator Heinrich. And I should say thank you to our former 
Chairman, who it has been a real pleasure working with, and I 
look forward to working with in the future.
    Governor, congratulations, and thanks so much for meeting 
with me yesterday. I especially want to thank you for offering 
to come out and take a look at our national labs in New Mexico. 
You did that of your own accord. I usually have to ask someone 
to do that. So thank you.
    You said in your prepared testimony that we, in America, 
cannot leave our people behind. I think we all agree with that 
sentiment, and want to figure out what is the best way to 
actually achieve that. You know, the energy sector is changing 
incredibly rapidly right now, and that means incredible new 
careers. We just broke ground on the largest single build wind 
farm in the history of the country in Central New Mexico. But 
it also means job losses into the future in traditional fossil 
energy, and we have to recognize those changes that are 
occurring.
    Coal has experienced a dramatic decline over the last 
decade, and oil and gas are now entering what appears to be a 
structural, rather than a cyclical, decline, and that is 
separate from any of the policy or climate change concerns. So, 
you know, I believe that the people who work in these sectors 
today and in the past are like our nation's energy veterans. 
They are men and women who have powered this incredible nation 
for the last half century and given their working lives to that 
goal.
    What investments will we need to make, specifically in oil 
and gas workers and in their communities, to ensure that these 
hard-working Americans are not left behind?
    Ms. Granholm. Thank you for the question. I mean, this is a 
chicken and egg question that we faced in Michigan. Do you 
train people for jobs that are not there yet? It's much better 
to get a job provider and train somebody for a specific job. 
And so, this is what the efforts of the Biden Administration 
are looking at. What are the economic assets that states have 
that can create economic clusters that will make them 
successful? And then be able to partner with universities, et 
cetera, to train at or in unions to be able to train people for 
good jobs in their states so they don't have to move somewhere 
but every state has something to offer?
    You described the big wind farm. Why aren't we building 
these wind turbines near the wind farms in America? We should 
not be importing those huge, I mean, the materials work that is 
being done at the Department of Energy on lightweight 
materials, that can be used as assets to create wind turbines 
that are larger and give people a chance to be able to work in 
that industry.
    Bottom line is place-based strategies are critical for 
areas that have been left behind. And that's exactly what the 
Executive Order from Joe Biden, today, has put together to fix.
    Senator Heinrich. So this should be an easy one. Will you 
commit to working with me to create a place-based plan for 
investing in and diversifying my state's oil and gas producing 
communities so that those constituents do not get left behind?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
    It is hard, because history has shown that hanging on to 
the past, frankly, is very politically expedient. What I have 
seen is that doesn't always work, and usually fails those 
communities in the long run. We have to make these forward-
thinking investments or we are going to see those job losses, 
and they are going to be worse, and they are going to be 
sooner. So I look forward to working with you. This is not 
going to be easy, but it is incredibly important.
    One of the fastest ways, obviously, to drive 
decarbonization and to drive the carbon pollution out of vast 
swaths of our economy is to begin electrifying practically 
everything. You have talked a lot about electric 
transportation. You know, today it is possible to electrify 
broad swaths of our economy that were run with fossil 
generation in the past. Heating water, heating and space 
cooling, and transportation are just a few of those examples.
    Importantly, if we do that, it creates an enormous number 
of blue-collar jobs and quality careers in local communities. 
How can you harness the expertise of the Department of Energy 
to accelerate that transition and accelerate the 
electrification of those parts of our economy for which the 
technology is there, but there are all these friction points?
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, I appreciate this question because one 
of the, you know, again, the Executive Order that was issued 
today also created a requirement that we lead by example in the 
Federal Government, and it is the Department of Energy that 
will be working on making sure that we are buying American, 
creating demand in America for American-made products and that 
we are deploying them on the vast complexes inside of the 
Federal Government. That creates an opportunity for American 
companies to build these products that will electrify our 
entire, our country in ways where we haven't seen that before. 
So, I think that, number one, and very quickly, that can happen 
through the lead by example effort that the Biden 
Administration has. And I just want to say that the signing of 
the Executive Order this week on Buy American is huge. It is 
huge for the signal, the demand signal that America is serious 
about buying these products, but if you are a company 
manufacturing something, if they're windmills, you've got to 
make them in America. And so locating them in places that have 
been hurting, that's going to be our strategy. How do we get 
them to locate there as we electrify?
    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Senator.
    At this time, we have Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Welcome, Governor Granholm. It was a pleasure to talk with 
you earlier.
    Now, to ensure the fitness of nominees for appointed 
positions, I ask every nominee that comes before any of the 
Committees on which I sit the following two questions.
    Since you became a legal adult, have you ever made unwanted 
requests for sexual favors or committed any verbal or physical 
harassment or assault of a sexual nature?
    Ms. Granholm. I have not.
    Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered 
into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
    Ms. Granholm. I have not.
    Senator Hirono. When you talk about place-based strategies, 
that really makes a lot of sense to me because I represent a 
state that is the most isolated island chain in the world. And 
as recently as 2006, Hawaii relied on imported oil and coal for 
92 percent of our energy. We were spending billions of dollars 
bringing oil and coal into our state, mainly oil. The state now 
gets about 28 percent of its power from renewable sources, but 
our two largest economic drivers, tourism and the military, 
remain highly dependent on oil. So Hawaii now has a goal to 
reach 100 percent renewable energy, renewable power, and a 
carbon neutral economy by 2045. That is one of the most 
ambitious goals of any state. The Department of Energy supports 
these efforts through a Memorandum of Understanding with the 
state that established the Hawaii Clean Energy Initiative, 
which Secretary of Energy Moniz renewed in 2014. My question 
is, can the State of Hawaii count on continued support from the 
DOE as it seeks to be a leader in building a clean energy 
economy?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes.
    Senator Hirono. You talked a lot, Governor, about creating 
jobs and yes, clean energy careers. Hawaii had a 9.3 percent 
unemployment rate in December, and studies indicate that about 
22 percent of Hawaii's clean energy jobs that were lost due to 
the pandemic have not yet come back. One of President Biden's 
key messages has been that taking action on climate change will 
help build back the economy and create new, well-paying careers 
for people. So, as Governor, you know, you worked to diversify 
Michigan's economy with clean energy and job training. As 
Secretary, what do you see as DOE's role in creating high 
quality jobs in, as you say, place-based strategies----
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah.
    Senator Hirono. ----for a state like Hawaii?
    Ms. Granholm. Thank you.
    Number one, I think that to create, to identify economic 
clusters that are, that give you a comparative advantage is 
really important. And so, doing an assessment to figure out 
what is it that's unique. I mean, there's so many unique things 
about Hawaii, but what is it that Hawaii wants to focus on to 
create a full supply chain there? And this is what the 
Executive Order from today allows us to really think through in 
communities in place. How do we encourage supply chains for the 
products that those communities are going to be buying to meet 
their demand for clean energy products? The demand signal has 
been set in Hawaii.
    Senator Hirono. Yes.
    Ms. Granholm. And now it's up to us to help to provide the 
supply and it's a supply of those clean energy products made in 
America, hopefully made in Hawaii, if they're going to be used 
in Hawaii. So this is what I look forward to working with you 
on is a strategy that is unique to the unique state that you 
represent.
    Senator Hirono. Manufacturing is always a challenge in 
Hawaii, but if we could at least get the products from the 
United States, from our country, that would be great.
    Now we do a lot of research through the DOE's labs, and 
that is great, but it is also really important as we implement 
the Energy Act of 2020 that was enacted at the end of last 
year. We provided funds for DOE demonstration projects for 
improving the electric grid, expanding energy storage, and 
accelerating new solar, wind, and marine energy technologies. 
So I would like to get your commitment that the DOE's role 
would be to support these kinds of demonstration projects to 
drive innovation in emission-reducing technologies.
    Ms. Granholm. I'm excited to support that. That's right in 
the DOE's sweet spot.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you.
    Senator Daines.
    Senator Daines. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Governor, thank you for being here today and thanks for 
taking time yesterday to talk about these important issues for 
Montana and our country. If you are confirmed, I hope we can 
see you out in Montana. That way you can take a look at 
firsthand about some of these issues we are talking about here 
today.
    In Montana, we have a diverse energy portfolio that 
supports over 16,000 jobs across our state. Coal and hydro 
produce the vast majority of our electricity. In fact, we have 
the largest recoverable coal reserve in the United States. We 
also have four petroleum refineries and we are building new 
wind and solar farms throughout our great state. Montana has 
balance. We have a balanced energy portfolio, and I believe 
balance is very important and needed at this time.
    Governor, oil and gas production and manufacturing 
accounted for $3.7 billion in Montana GDP in 2019 according to 
the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Coal provides reliable 
baseload energy. It supports high paying jobs. It is an 
essential part of so many of our Montana communities. For 
example, coal supports over half the budget of our Crow Tribe 
in Montana. Without it, they would be economically devastated. 
It provides high paying jobs in an area where there is frankly 
few other opportunities. In fact, if we were to eliminate those 
jobs in Crow Country, the jobs and the revenue it would have by 
being eliminated, it would have devastating impacts to the 
Tribe.
    I remember we had some protesters that broke into an energy 
summit we were having in Billings, Montana, a few years ago, 
and they had big signs that said, ``Keep it in the ground.'' 
And the daughter of the Crow Chairman, Ms. Old Coyote, she went 
up to one of the protesters and said, ``If you keep it in the 
ground, my people will starve.'' And these protesters quietly 
folded up their signs and they walked out the door. 
Unfortunately, President Biden has already taken steps that are 
very concerning for Montana--cancelling the Keystone XL 
pipeline six hours into his presidency, prohibiting new oil and 
gas and coal leases on federal lands--we are already losing 
jobs.
    I was on the phone last night with one of our county 
commissioners in Eastern Montana, and they are struggling 
economically. Our eastern part of our state has a hard time 
making county government budgets balance. One of our county 
commissioners, who was going to receive $7 million a year in 
tax revenues from the Keystone pipeline, $80 million a year 
across Eastern Montana in our state. He said, ``Steve, we just 
had to give notice to 60, 60 union workers that they are losing 
their jobs because of the cancelation of the pipeline.'' I can 
tell you those are 60 of the best jobs that we have in that 
county.
    So the question is, in this important role that you are 
looking to be confirmed into, do you believe the United States 
needs to completely remove oil, gas and coal from its energy 
portfolio?
    Ms. Granholm. No, I do not. I believe, if I can just follow 
up, I believe that if we are going to get to net carbon zero 
emissions by 2050, we cannot do it without coal, oil, gas being 
part of the mix. But without CCUS technology, that's the 
important add that I would make----
    Senator Daines. Right.
    Ms. Granholm. ----is without these carbon management 
technologies that are being researched at the Department of 
Energy, we won't get to the goal of net carbon zero and I think 
we must use those technologies to keep people employed and to 
clean up and to remain energy independent.
    Senator Daines. Yes, thank you, Governor. We will talk 
about that. I really enjoyed our conversation yesterday about 
CCUS. And by the way, in terms of net carbon neutral, the 
Keystone Pipeline is net carbon neutral. That is what has 
people scratching their heads, saying it is the most 
environmentally sound way to transport a liquid and has the 
least impact, in fact, it is carbon neutral as it relates to 
that transportation means.
    I am glad you brought up CCUS. As you know, after years of 
work this Committee passed a very forward-looking energy bill 
that included major advancements in carbon capture investment 
and commercialization. One of the bills that was included was 
the EFFECT Act. It is a bill that I worked on with both the 
Ranking Member and the Chairman. This bill established a large-
scale CCUS pilot project at an existing power plant. And as we 
talked yesterday, I think Colstrip Power Plant in Montana is 
uniquely suited for this DOE-funded pilot project. It would 
create high paying jobs in Montana, importantly, reduce 
emissions and get us on this path of a commonsense kind of 
balanced energy portfolio.
    Governor, would you commit to working with me and Montanans 
to bring a CCUS project to our state?
    Ms. Granholm. I'll certainly commit to working with you and 
take a look at it. I look forward to being briefed on it 
further. I think the DOE did a study on it a couple of years 
ago, but I look forward to following up with you and working 
with you on it.
    Senator Daines. Thank you.
    Well, you are going to find this is a great Committee. We 
have a great Chairman, a great Ranking Member that seeks to 
find balance----
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah.
    Senator Daines. ----in terms of ways to our energy going 
forward here for our country. So thanks for your consideration, 
thanks for being here today.
    Senator Manchin. Senator Sanders.
    Senator Sanders. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me 
thank Senator Murkowski for the great job that she did as Chair 
as well. She and I do not agree on every issue, but she ran a 
non-partisan, open-minded Committee, and we appreciate that.
    Governor, the scientific community suggests to us that if 
we do not transform, not only our energy system, but the global 
energy system, there will be irreparable underlying damage done 
to communities throughout our country and the world, and that 
the situation is getting more dire every day. Do you agree with 
that assessment?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes.
    Senator Sanders. The good news is that while--when we 
transform the energy world, there will be dislocation, and no 
one can deny that. What the economists tell us is that we have 
the potential to create a hell of a lot more jobs in energy 
efficiency, sustainable energy, and all the technologies you 
have been talking about, than we lose. Do you have a sense of 
how many good-paying, new, hopefully union jobs we can create 
if we are aggressive in transforming our energy system?
    Ms. Granholm. I do know the goal was to create 10 million 
in the United States using these technologies. Huge 
opportunity.
    Senator Sanders. That is extraordinary. And while there 
will be, clearly, as we make the transformation, the loss of 
some jobs, no question about it, correct me if I am wrong, but 
10 million is a hell of a lot more jobs being created than 
being lost. Is that correct?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes.
    Senator Sanders. All right, let me ask you this. If, 
magically, the United States did everything we could to 
transform our energy system and cut back on carbon emissions, 
we still have the rest of the world out there. This is a 
problem that cannot be solved by any one nation. Can you talk a 
little bit--and I know we have John Kerry who is going to be 
working on these issues as well, but we are going to have to be 
reaching out in a way that we have never done, to China, to 
Russia, to India, to Brazil, and to countries all over the 
world, to get them onboard. Do you have any sense of how we can 
do that?
    Ms. Granholm. Well, part of the Executive Order that was 
issued today really emphasized this very issue, elevating the 
importance of our international reach and partnership with, not 
just economic allies, but also competitors, like China. And 
this is another reason why I think it was, it had a lot of 
foresight in appointing John Kerry to be the climate envoy, I 
think is the title.
    Senator Sanders. Czar is what I think it is affectionately 
called.
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, I wasn't sure if it was czar, but----
    [Laughter.]
    One way or the other, it's a powerful position that signals 
our leadership, that we are back and it was the importance of 
re-entering the Paris Accord as well, but we did not, we could 
not be an outlier in this and we need to lead by example, but 
also lead by bringing our allies and competitors along with us.
    Senator Sanders. Look, I mean, China is going to be hard 
hit by climate. There will be sections of that country 
underwater. Do you see possibilities of us working together 
with China, India, and other countries?
    Ms. Granholm. I do, but I know that our eyes must be wide 
open.
    Senator Sanders. Right, right.
    Let me ask you this. We talk about the destruction that 
climate change is and will be bringing to the world. We talk 
about the potential of good-paying jobs. One of the things I 
think we don't talk about enough is that, in fact, sustainable 
energy could lower electric bills for a whole lot of people. 
Just Jane and I, in our home in Burlington, Vermont, which is 
not the sunniest, you know, we are not Florida or Arizona, but 
I think we spent something like $10,000 with the tax credits 
that we received, to install solar. Our electricity bill has 
gone down, I think, by 90 percent. We are going to pay it off 
in seven years. That means over a 20-year period we are 
reducing our electric bill by 50 percent. Is that a point that 
we are getting out enough, and what are we going to do, you 
know, for the average working-class family, who today may not 
be able to afford that $10,000? How do we say, we can lower 
your electric bill if you move to solar? Do you have any 
thoughts on that?
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, I think this is a role for the 
Department of Energy in addition to the jobs piece. For 
example, the Energy Efficiency Acts that Congress has passed 
over the years have saved families, just on efficiency, about 
$500 per family, per year has been amazingly successful. The 
same thing we should be taking a look at how, as a nation, we 
can reduce the upfront costs of installing solar for every--in 
every state because the sun shines everywhere.
    Senator Sanders. So in other words, if I lend you $10,000 
to invest in solar, and you don't see any increase in your 
electric bill, in other words, you are going to be paying off 
the loan.
    Ms. Granholm. Right.
    Senator Sanders. Rather than an electric bill. Is that an 
approach that makes sense to you?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes. I would say that my, I mean, I did the 
same thing and I pay every month as well, but our overall 
energy bill has dropped significantly, even by paying off the 
loan. And that's the kind of information we want to get out 
there.
    Senator Sanders. That is right, and I think we don't talk 
about that enough.
    Ms. Granholm. Right.
    Senator Sanders. Lastly, Vermont has been a leader for many 
years in a whole variety of environmental issues, including 
energy efficiency and sustainable energy. I would love to work 
with you to see how we can strengthen our connection with some 
of the national labs, including the National Renewable Energy 
Lab. Is that something we can work together on?
    Ms. Granholm. Of course, of course.
    Senator Sanders. Okay, thank you very much.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you.
    Senator Hoeven, do we have him on virtual? He is not on 
yet? If not, then we have Senator King.
    Senator King.
    Senator King. I want to join my colleagues in thanking 
Senator Murkowski. Senator, you have done a wonderful job as 
Chairman of this Committee. I don't care if Joe Manchin is 
taking over nominally, in my heart, you will always be the 
Chair of the Committee.
    [Laughter.]
    I really appreciate the work that you have done.
    Governor, welcome. I want to touch on a couple of things 
rather quickly. My dear friend, the Senator from Louisiana, 
talked about natural gas prices and the effect of increases on 
those prices. The most serious threat to the domestic price of 
natural gas is unfettered exports, and under the Natural Gas 
Act, as you talked earlier in your testimony, you have to make 
a public interest finding. I hope you do that analysis, because 
we now have applications for, the last time I looked, more than 
half of the domestic production of natural gas for export. That 
cannot do anything but drive price up, as it has in other 
places in the world. So I hope that you will have your staff do 
really good elasticity studies about the effect of those 
additional export capacities on domestic prices. That has to be 
part of the analysis. If that is not public interest, I don't 
know what is. Will you commit to me to look at that aspect when 
you are looking at these applications?
    Ms. Granholm. Certainly. In the balancing test that's 
required under the Natural Gas Act, that would be one of the 
things we would look at.
    Senator King. Thank you.
    We have talked about wind and wind power. Offshore wind is 
one of the greatest potential energy sources, and the real 
frontier is floating where the continental shelf is too deep. I 
want to mention that the leading research on floating offshore 
wind technology is being done at the University of Maine. At 
Orono, they have been working with the Department over the past 
five years on the Aqua Ventus project. I commend that to you 
because if we are going to tap the higher capacity factor and 
the enormous potential for offshore wind, it is going to have 
to be in deeper water, and that means some kind of floating 
technology issue, as I mentioned.
    So I would like to invite you to the composites lab at the 
University to see the amazing work that is being done up there 
in this field.
    Ms. Granholm. I would very much like to come and see that.
    Senator King. Next issue. Somebody asked me my priorities 
on energy and I said, it is storage, storage, and number three 
is storage.
    [Laughter.]
    There is research money in the bill that we just passed. 
There is no more important work that you can be doing. And the 
example is, someone earlier mentioned the revolution in energy 
production by hydraulic fracking which, in fact, was invented 
in large measure because of support from research funds at the 
Department of Energy. If we can break through with cost-
effective storage, that really opens the door to full 
electrification and full renewable electrification. So I hope 
that is an emphasis that you will maintain in your work at the 
Department.
    Ms. Granholm. It is and you may be aware that President 
Biden has established a desire to create some Earthshots, as he 
called them, sort of like the SunShot that was previously done 
that brought down the price of solar. And one of those 
Earthshots is to reduce the cost of utility-scale battery 
storage by 90 percent.
    Senator King. Well, that is where we need to go, and once 
that happens, then technologies that are based upon 
interruptible sources like wind and solar essentially become 
baseload, and that is really crucial.
    A final point I wanted to touch on, and I know Senator 
Cortez Masto is going to be following me, is nuclear waste 
disposal. I live about 20 miles from my nuclear plant that was 
closed about 15 years ago. We have what amounts to a high-level 
nuclear waste site on the coast of Maine, and it is because of 
a 70-year unmet promise by the Federal Government to deal with 
nuclear waste. I believe that nuclear development has a low 
carbon future in this country, but I am reluctant to support 
significant new development until we meet that promise.
    So I hope that is something that you will pay attention to. 
I know Senator Cortez Masto is going to steer you away from 
Yucca Mountain, but we really do have to be honest with 
ourselves about the fact that what we have now are, I don't 
know how many, maybe 100 effective, high-level nuclear sites 
scattered around the country. That is not good, that is not 
safe from a national security or from an environmental point of 
view.
    Ms. Granholm. I agree with you. It is a very sticky 
situation and clearly, we have to, maybe, look at what the Blue 
Ribbon Commission did on this which was to engage in some 
consensus, site-based consensus, strategies that allow us to 
determine where that waste should go.
    Senator King. Thank you.
    Thank you, Governor. Congratulations on your nomination, 
and I certainly look forward to working with you.
    Ms. Granholm. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Manchin. Senator Cortez Masto.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    Let me echo my colleagues to thank you, Senator Murkowski. 
You have done an incredible job in working with everybody on 
the Committee to make sure all of our voices were heard and 
working with our legislation. So thank you for that great work.
    Governor Granholm, congratulations. Welcome to your 
husband. And thank you for taking the time to talk with me.
    I am going to get right to it, and utilize some of the 
questions that I have that are very specific to Nevada. My 
colleague from Maine highlighted one of them, Yucca Mountain. 
We know it has been a failed policy. The Nuclear Waste Act has 
been there since 1980. We still have challenges with really 
addressing the high-level nuclear waste storage that we have in 
this country.
    Yucca Mountain is not the answer. And the couple of 
questions that I have for you is first, what is this 
Administration's position on Yucca Mountain?
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, the Administration opposes the use of 
Yucca Mountain for storage of nuclear waste.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    And will you commit the Department to working with Congress 
to develop safe and workable alternatives to Yucca Mountain?
    Ms. Granholm. Absolutely.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Okay.
    And will you be sure to have the staff responsible for 
nuclear waste planning and management engage with my office?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    As well as the Office of Senator Rosen?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes.
    Senator Cortez Masto. And then you mentioned it, the Blue 
Ribbon panel. We know that the Blue Ribbon panel made 
recommendations around a consent-based siting process. Senator 
Rosen and I, along with the entire Nevada delegation, will 
reintroduce this legislation to include Nevada in that consent-
based siting. Is that something that you and the Administration 
would support?
    Ms. Granholm. Absolutely.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    The final question around Yucca is just to make sure that 
if you are confirmed, you and the Administration would commit 
to engaging the states, tribes and key stakeholders on 
developing that consent-based siting?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    Let me jump to one other issue, which is the storage of 
plutonium. Nevada has a National Security Site. We are very 
proud of it. It creates jobs. We are an important part of the 
national security, as you well know, in this country. In 2018, 
the State of Nevada learned that the Trump Administration had 
secretly shipped plutonium intended for weapons production to 
Nevada, to be stored indefinitely at the Nevada National 
Security Site. In working with the Department of Energy, we 
came to an agreement, which the state used to secure a 
settlement with the Department last year to begin removing the 
plutonium from Nevada.
    What is the current status of DOE's and the National 
Nuclear Security Administration's plan for removing the 
plutonium, if you know?
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, the plan is to follow the agreement 
that you negotiated.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, I appreciate that.
    Let me just add this. In 2014, the Obama Administration and 
the State of Nevada agreed to establish a senior level DOE-
Nevada Working Group to address mutual concerns about 
operations at the Nevada National Security Site. Unfortunately 
the Trump Administration did not follow through on that 
agreement. Will you commit to re-establishing the DOE-Nevada 
Working Group with regular meetings of senior level personnel?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes, I will.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    Then let me address, in general, the conversation because I 
so agree. Listen, I support, really, a diverse energy portfolio 
for all states. Every state is going to be unique. In Nevada, 
we have natural gas. We have geothermal. We have wind. We have 
solar. But the outcome for all of us should be reducing that 
carbon footprint. And I do believe an innovation economy is 
coming, if it is not already here, and the technology is going 
to give us that opportunity to really engage in a clean energy 
portfolio for so many of us. It is going to create jobs. It is 
going to move us in that direction, and there are opportunities 
to bring everybody along with us.
    Let me talk a little bit about electric vehicles, because 
this is something that I so agree with you on. I have a suite 
of electric vehicle legislation. One of them is included in the 
infrastructure package. If you come to Nevada, and I have 
offered that to you before, you will see in some of our rural 
communities that we already have the infrastructure for 
electric vehicles. I am very proud of that. But let me ask you: 
one of the pieces of legislation that I have, and I am going to 
be introducing, is to establish a working group that is co-led 
by DOE to improve that coordination among local, state, and 
federal stakeholders to establish a clear strategy and national 
electric vehicle framework that includes not just cars, but 
buses as well.
    Is that something that you could work with us on or would 
be willing to engage on?
    Ms. Granholm. Absolutely.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, I appreciate that.
    I notice my time is up. The rest of the questions I have 
for you I will submit for the record.
    Thank you again, and congratulations.
    Ms. Granholm. Thank you.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you. Thank you, Senator.
    Do we have anybody else online? Nobody else online. If not, 
we will go to a second round, if you are okay with that.
    Does anybody need a break?
    [No response.]
    If nobody needs a break, we will go to a second round. We 
will start with Senator Murkowski, Chairman Murkowski.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Governor Granholm, I hope that you have appreciated the 
range of questions that you have heard here today. I was just 
sharing with my friend and colleague here. I am riveted here in 
the conversation that has been going back and forth. Since I am 
not really chairing anymore, I don't have to sit here, but I 
think what is being discussed today is so significant and it is 
so important to the country that I really want to hear your 
views here. I hope what you have heard is that in certain parts 
of the country, we are very much your resource anchor whether 
it is West Virginia coal, or Wyoming coal, or whether it is oil 
from Alaska, whether it is coal from Alaska, we are your 
resource anchor.
    Now I will let my colleagues speak to the manufacturing 
capabilities in both Wyoming and West Virginia, but in Alaska 
we don't manufacture a lot. What we do is we provide for all of 
you so that in Michigan, in Ohio, in other parts of the 
country, we are doing all this buy America, made in America, 
but it has to start from somewhere. And so, when we are talking 
about this transition to the clean energy jobs and, believe me, 
Alaskans want those clean energy jobs just like all Americans 
do. We want to be able to access those resources that we have 
in the ground, whether it be oil, whether it be natural gas, 
whether it be coal or minerals. We want to be able to access 
that in a way that is environmentally responsible, that does 
work toward reduced emissions. But we still recognize that you 
are still going to need what we have.
    And so, when we are talking about this transition, we have 
to realize that that transition and where these jobs are and 
what these jobs are, are going to be different depending on 
where we are. And so, for us in resource-based states I just 
hope you hear the concern. It is not that I want to keep us 
back in, you know, back in time. I want us to be able to move 
forward. We are a state that is seeing the daily impact of 
climate change. And so, we know we need to be aggressive, but 
we also know that we have to be the provider, if you will. And 
so, as we are talking about how you can come in and assure 
whether it is the worker in Louisiana or in Mississippi or in 
West Virginia, that your job may change. I hope you appreciate 
and understand the anxiety in families and the anxiety in 
communities and in whole states, in whole states.
    My State of Alaska, it is our oil resources that have 
allowed us to build our schools, build our roads. And so, I 
share this with you with a great deal of passion because while 
we transition, we have to ensure that the assets that we have 
in the ground that will allow us to be energy secure and 
economically and environmentally secure. You are going to need 
us. And so, when I think about the asset that we have in 
Alaska, the Trans-Alaska Pipeline--we have been flowing oil to 
help the people of California so that they don't have to import 
as much oil from Venezuela or from the Middle East. We think 
that that actually helps. We think that our mineral base helps 
the country. It is not just jobs for us, but it helps us.
    So I hope that you would agree that the resource base, the 
assets that we have, things like the Trans-Alaska Pipeline and 
why it is important to keep it filled up, are important, not 
only from an asset perspective, but for the jobs and the 
security that they provide to the nation.
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, Senator, I completely understand this, 
and I so appreciate your sincere passion on the part of people 
you represent who are full of anxiety. I--the experience that I 
had--I feel like I get this so much because of the experience I 
had in Michigan seared my soul on behalf of workers who were 
feeling utter anxiety about who is ever going to hire me. So 
the amazing opportunity we have, as you and I discussed, is for 
states, I mean, Alaska, in particular, because of being a state 
where we can pilot so many different types of technology, but 
as Senator Barrasso has said, as Senator Manchin has said, the 
use of technology allows us to be able to ensure families that 
they can still have a job and we can use technology to reduce 
carbon emissions and that we can still use the resources we 
have and we can reduce carbon emissions.
    I completely understand what you're saying and I appreciate 
your sincere passion on behalf of those you represent. I share 
that, and I look forward to working with you to make sure that 
we keep people employed.
    The Chairman. But I think you see from our Energy Act that 
we passed, we focused keenly on that technology.
    Ms. Granholm. Yes.
    The Chairman. But again, that technology will allow us to 
be able to harvest these resources because that is what we are 
doing, we are harvesting it. We are harvesting them in a 
cleaner way, but we will still be relying on this base 
resource. And so, I, again, urge you to focus on that.
    Mr. Chairman, if I may, there has not been a question yet 
raised before the Governor here with regards to cybersecurity. 
Of course, we all know the recent news about SolarWinds and the 
hack there, it has really highlighted the need for increased 
coordination throughout the Executive Branch. I personally 
think that the move by the Biden Administration to revoke the 
Executive Order on the Bulk Power System was unwise. I think it 
puts our electric grid at greater risk for cyberattacks. I am 
concerned about that. I think this entire Committee is 
concerned about where we are with the reliability and the 
resilience of the grid when it comes to cyber.
    I am well over my time, but I would ask for your indulgence 
if Governor Granholm can respond to the question about grid 
resilience and security there, because I think it is so 
important.
    Ms. Granholm. It's very important and briefly, I mean, we 
have five million miles of distribution wires, 200,000 miles of 
high voltage electric wires. I haven't been fully briefed on 
the, you know, national security and the confidential aspects 
of the SolarWinds cyber hack, but clearly that's one example 
and we're getting hacked all the time and attacked all the 
time. We will have inside of the DOE a person at a very high 
level that is responsible for making sure that this, the 
response to this, is coordinated. We have to harden our 
electric grid for protection of our energy system. I hope that 
this is a part of the infrastructure package that will be 
coming from the Administration as well, and I look forward to 
working with you on it.
    The Chairman. Well, I think DOE has a very specific and 
very important role as being the sector specific within energy 
when it comes to cyber is very important.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the indulgence.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Senator.
    Finally, from the great State of North Dakota, we have 
gotten the computer up and running and Senator Hoeven is on.
    Senator Hoeven.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can you hear me 
all right?
    Senator Manchin. All very good, I am glad. Things are a 
long way away in North Dakota.
    Senator Hoeven. Yes, I appreciate you and, of course, our 
Ranking Member, for holding the hearing today.
    Governor Granholm, it is really fantastic to see you again 
and I enjoyed, very much, working with you in our days as 
Governor. You were a tremendous leader then and I believe you 
will be a strong leader for the Department of Energy. So I am 
really looking forward to working with you. I appreciated our 
visit earlier and would just like to pick up on a couple of 
those themes.
    The first one is something that Senator Murkowski was 
talking to you about and that is that I believe that baseload 
supply, in terms of energy, is very, very important and one of 
those very important baseload sources of supply is coal-fired 
electricity. And we actually are working very hard on carbon 
capture and sequestration. I think we have everything in place 
to do a partnership with our industry in our state and we now 
have passed 45Q which is a tax credit, because again, we could 
do it technologically, but we have to be able to do it on a 
commercially-viable basis. We have 45Q in place. We have the 
regulatory regime in place.
    In our State of North Dakota, starting 12 years ago, we 
worked, went to work, and passed legislation so you would have 
the legal regulatory environment in place to address the core 
space. We have EPA approval. As I said, we have been working on 
this for 12 years. And what we need help with now are two 
things. One is, you know, the front-end cost to put the 
technology on the plants. That is Project Tundra where we have 
a partnership with DOE. We need your help on that. We have 
appropriated money already, and we need to continue to have 
funding there to get the front-end cost addressed and 
partnerships with the state and our companies. So your support 
for Project Tundra is very important to us.
    And then also, the Loan Guarantee because the companies 
will still have to bear a lot of expense to put that, to 
retrofit those plants for the technology. There are two sources 
of guarantees. Both are funded. The money is there. One is 
through the Department of Energy, and the other is through 
USDA's Rural Development. Rural Development in some cases might 
even be easier to access. But both those guarantees are there 
and they are funded. The money is there to do this and this is 
about cracking the code, just like we did with horizontal 
drilling, this is about cracking the code with carbon 
sequestration and addressing, not only keeping that baseload 
power, keeping those great jobs, but actually capturing that 
CO2 and storing it safely for the long-term.
    So I would ask for your thoughts and your commitment to 
help us get that done.
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, I'm excited about Project Tundra. I'm 
excited about using your state as an example of the regulatory 
regime to facilitate CCUS, and I look forward to working with 
you on it. And yes, you have my support.
    Senator Hoeven. And you are coming to see us, right?
    Ms. Granholm. I'm coming to see you.
    Senator Hoeven. ----like Joe Manchin, Joe Manchin has 
always wanted to come to North Dakota. We told him not yet, 
but--we will have a great time--we will eventually invite him 
up but----
    Ms. Granholm. Joe, you and I.
    Senator Manchin. Jennifer and I will be there together. We 
will bring John with us. The three of us will come up.
    Senator Hoeven. Well, that would be great. I mean it, and 
we would have fun and--I am sorry, Secretary, you are willing 
to come join us, come see what we are doing?
    Senator Manchin. I'm sorry, what?
    Senator Hoeven. You are willing to come see what we are 
doing, with or without Chairman Manchin?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes.
    Are you asking me? Yes, absolutely.
    Senator Hoeven. Yes, I'm sorry.
    Ms. Granholm. With or without him.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Hoeven. Yes, we would love to have both of you, 
very much. Thank you.
    The other is in the area of federal lands. We have to be 
able to access energy on federal lands of all kinds and, you 
know, that is true on our Native American lands as well. In 
some cases, it is renewable. In some cases, it is fossil fuel. 
But we have to be able to access energy on federal lands, 
safely and soundly, with good environmental stewardship and 
then we have to have transportation. Again, this is for both 
fossil or traditional energy and renewable. We have to have 
transmission lines. We have to have pipelines. So please 
address that, Governor Granholm, if you could.
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, I'm very eager to work with FERC to get 
transmission lines established, ASAP. I feel like this is a 
conversation that's been had for years about having the right 
transmission lines in place to take power from the places of 
clean power, especially wind, like you see in North Dakota from 
places that are generating it to the power and load centers. 
So, I--this is a very high priority to make that happen, and I 
look forward to working with you on that.
    Senator Hoeven. Yes, we need your help, and we know that 
you know how to accomplish these things. We know you understand 
the importance of the jobs and we understand your commitment to 
the environment, but we have to have your help.
    The last thing I will finish up with. I am looking at 
Governor Angus King, he was Governor with us too back in the 
day, and he is always looking at new, innovative and creative 
things in energy. One of places that is doing a lot of that is 
the Energy and Environmental Research Center (EERC) at the 
University of North Dakota. We have a partnership on the carbon 
capture and storage, and we are really trying to drive that 
technology forward. They are also working on a partnership at 
the Department of Energy on renewable types of energy as well.
    I am asking for your commitment to continue these 
partnerships that we have with DOE and the EERC and even look 
to help grow them because of the incredible role that 
innovation is playing in energy development.
    Ms. Granholm. You have my commitment.
    Senator Hoeven. Again, thank you and I look forward to 
working with you.
    Ms. Granholm. Thank you.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Senator.
    As we continue our second round, I have a few comments to 
make, and then we will go to Senator Barrasso and then we have 
Senator King and Senator Cortez Masto still online, if they 
wish to have a second round. So we will continue with that.
    Let me just say this. You and I had a great conversation on 
some things that are going on, and I just want to say this. Our 
first hearing will be next week. Senator Barrasso and I talked 
about it. It is called Climate Baseline. There are so many 
deniers out there of what is going on around the world, whose 
fault it is, and this and that, but what we can do to achieve, 
truly, some climate changes that will be better for our 
environment and better for our children and grandchildren, our 
next generation. We need to get to the facts first. I said, if 
you are able, everybody should come to this Committee with all 
the opinions they have and all the input, but we have to work 
off the same baseline and the facts. So once we establish that, 
we think we can accomplish an awful lot.
    With that, I have said this, I can only talk to you about 
my State of West Virginia, and my state has been a heavy lifter 
for over a century, and fought in every war. We have a lot of 
patriots as far as the military veterans, but most importantly, 
our coal producers have produced the energy this country has 
needed to defend ourselves in every war, to win the wars, and 
propel the industrial might. We continue to do that as one of 
the leading coal producers with my colleague here in Wyoming. 
These people feel like they have been left behind, and I think 
we mentioned that too. Just give them an opportunity to live 
where they traditionally lived and where their heritage is, and 
where they want to be, but direct jobs in that direction and 
don't just leave them in a barren wasteland. That is where 
there is total animosity, and right now there are a lot of 
concerns that we are hearing coming out of President Biden's 
Executive Orders. People are very much concerned that they are 
going to leave us behind again. It is going down this path 
where the energy that we provided will no longer be needed, and 
there are those who have aspirations of elimination in energy 
sources such as all the fossil fuels, leaving it behind. We are 
going in a different direction.
    The transition might happen. We don't know when it is going 
to happen, but we are accelerating more quickly than we ever 
thought we would before. The only thing I am saying on that is, 
we think technology is the way to go. We think innovation, not 
elimination, will make that happen. And everybody can be 
brought along and taken care of if we can direct it and 
recognize the people that have done the heavy lifting. That is 
the animosity, the built-up, pent-up, concerns that people 
have, and that is what has caused the divide in the rural and 
urban areas, because most of these heavy lifting states are in 
rural areas.
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah.
    Senator Manchin. You can see the political divide and how 
deep it is getting. So I think you have a golden opportunity, 
Governor, to really try to help bridge that, I really do. I 
know your personality. I know you well enough to know that you 
will reach across the aisle and be sympathetic to the people 
that basically are saying, just give me a chance to provide for 
myself and my family. That is all they want. And with that, the 
market will change.
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah.
    Senator Manchin. What they don't want is for you to throw 
them a life preserver that is weighted down with an anchor when 
they are trying to survive, and that is what they think has 
been thrown to them in previous administrations. And we have 
seen even with the previous administration of President Trump, 
we have lost more coal jobs than ever before. It is the market 
that is transitioning. We have to find everything we can in 
West Virginia and in Wyoming, in all of our energy-producing 
states, especially fossil-producing states, that they have an 
opportunity to continue to contribute.
    That is my two cents, for what it is worth, but I can tell 
you, we need to bring this country together. You have a chance 
to help us heal that, and energy is the biggest thing that can 
heal us and bring us together, more so than anything else, 
because it is what divided us too.
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah.
    Senator Manchin. So your thoughts on that, if you will.
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, no, I mean you've said it so 
beautifully, as you do, Senator Manchin. I cannot tell you how 
important this is to me, personally, is to make sure that we do 
not leave people behind. When I was in Michigan we created a 
program called ``No Worker Left Behind'' for that reason, 
because people who have been disproportionately affected by 
these transitions which are really hard, feel like they have 
been, they're unseen and they've been forgotten and that's not 
what's going to happen. In fact, you know, the Biden 
Administration has pledged to commit 40 percent of the benefits 
of this clean energy transition to communities that have been 
left behind and that includes environmental justice communities 
as well as communities in transition.
    And so, the proof will be in the pudding. That's what I'll 
have to say, is we have to commit to getting job providers into 
communities with not skills that are completely off for the 
people who are there respecting where they are and make sure 
that we put them to work and train them for those jobs and give 
them hope for the future and keep their children there as well 
who also want to be part of a future-looking energy balance.
    Senator Manchin. Well, the thing I would say to my friend, 
President Biden, and I know we know him well and he has been a 
dear friend, but the thing of it is, make sure that the 
Administration, if they want to pause and look and evaluate 
what has happened and what direction we should be going, that 
is great because we can all have input. If they come out and 
say we are going to eliminate this, or put a moratorium on 
that, it makes it much more difficult for us, in a bipartisan 
way, to be helpful and to be constructive. I think they are 
listening, I hope they do, and we look forward to working with 
this Administration and with you in your new role too.
    I look forward to supporting you in that role, and I will 
do everything I can to make sure that we can advance that issue 
because I know you will sit down and work with us. And with 
that, with my partner, I turn it over to Senator Barrasso.
    Ms. Granholm. Great.
    Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks so much, Mr. Chairman. I 
agree with what you have just had to say as well as what 
Senator Hoeven had to say, Senator Murkowski, just had to say 
because collectively we are the resource anchor. That was 
Senator Murkowski's, but that is West Virginia, that is North 
Dakota, that is Wyoming, that is Alaska. We are the resource 
anchor for the country.
    So when President Biden says he wants to achieve a carbon 
pollution free power sector by 2035, California has already 
committed itself to a carbon free power sector by 2045 and last 
year we witnessed the results of that. California had to impose 
rolling blackouts on millions of its residents. The state had 
to waive environmental regulations so they could run large 
numbers of emergency diesel generators, and even then they 
could not keep the lights on. So to make matters worse, 
California residents are already paying some of the highest 
electricity prices in the country for unreliable energy.
    So what are the facts that show it is possible to actually 
push the entire nation down this path and to do so ten years 
ahead of the California schedule without causing the blackouts, 
without having unacceptable risks and without driving up 
electricity prices?
    Ms. Granholm. We know that there are places in the country 
that have gotten to that amount, but we need a lot more work 
and a shoulder to the wheel. That's 15 years from now. I know 
the goal is there at 100 percent, but the important goal, I 
think, for this Committee is as well, the 100 percent net 
carbon zero emissions. And I'd like to talk about emissions 
because I think that is something that technology can address 
that keeps people employed and so to be able to work with you 
on that.
    And I know that you are a forward thinker on this, on 
technology and you're not a climate denier, you are, you 
understand the importance of technology. And that's why I'm so 
impressed by the members of this Committee and especially the 
members who do represent fossil-based economies, because I know 
that you see the opportunity for that net zero and the use of 
technology to be able to get there.
    Senator Barrasso. Well, then I invite you to Wyoming, to 
the University of Wyoming School of Energy Resources where we 
have our integrated test center, working on carbon capture, air 
capture, direct capture and then putting it into products that 
are marketable and----
    Ms. Granholm. Yes.
    Senator Barrasso. ----resold. The Chairman and I, as well 
as Senator Murkowski and Senator Cantwell and Senator 
Whitehouse have gone to locations around the world where 
research is being done to do that, the XPrize competition. You 
may have seen Elon Musk has just committed $100 million to 
research to do just the sorts of things that we have been 
leading the way in Wyoming. So I would welcome you there. That, 
to me, is a goal.
    Right now, you know, I am taking a look at what President 
Biden said, he said he is going to ensure 100 percent of new 
sales for light- and medium-duty vehicles will be zero emission 
and cut the carbon footprint of our national building stock in 
half by 2035. In other words, his Administration not only wants 
to create this carbon free sector by 2035, but he wants to 
saddle the electric grid with the additional burden of powering 
most cars and trucks in the country, half of the buildings that 
currently use natural gas. No one wants to see a repeat of 
California failures.
    So can you point to, you said there are some places, but 
can you point to any state agencies or electric grid operators 
or utilities that have committed to use such aggressive goals 
without warning people of the risks that they face if they try 
to clamp it down?
    Ms. Granholm. Well, I would say, I mean, having lived in 
California for this past year for that, I mean, a lot of the 
blackouts were due to, honestly, wind, fire, because of the 
conditions of the climate and it was less about the security of 
the grid and more about what was happening because of the 
warming of the planet and the cause of the additional fire 
danger as a result.
    However----
    Senator Barrasso. And also, the way that the forests have 
been managed and all the other issues related to that.
    Ms. Granholm. Right, and a lot of that was federal forests 
too.
    But yes, there has to be a better management of the 
forests. I don't want to argue about it with you at all. I want 
to be able to reach across and be a partner in achieving the 
technologies to get there. I do think that we have so much 
opportunity in building technologies and the structures, in 
materials that we reduce CO2 footprint of buildings, 
the building sector.
    I think that we can work together. I think that the example 
of the bill that you guys did pass at the end of last year is 
an example of being able to find the common ground that allows 
us to keep people employed, employ new people in this clean 
energy sector and use technology as a way of addressing 
CO2 emissions.
    Senator Barrasso. Yes, you know, last year the Governor of 
California signed an Executive Order banning the sales of new 
vehicles with internal combustion engines by 2035. President 
Biden says he wants 100 percent of new sales for light- and 
medium-duty vehicles will be zero emission. You are a former 
Governor of Michigan. Do you support banning sales of new 
vehicles with internal combustion engines?
    Ms. Granholm. I think it's, I mean, I don't mean to 
interrupt, because I do drive the Chevy Bolt and it's been 
amazing and the best car I've ever had with incredible power. I 
would love to see a big goal and I know it's going to take us a 
while to get there and sometimes leaders have to say big goals 
to move things in the direction that they would like to see. 
But I do know that the auto industry itself, as Senator 
Stabenow said, is making big investments in this, not just the 
domestic auto industry, but internationally as well and it's 
very exciting to see.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Senator.
    I will say that President Biden does enjoy a Corvette that 
makes a lot of noise. I do too, and that is going to be around 
for a while. I don't think he has any intentions of selling his 
either.
    [Laughter.]
    With that, we have one final Senator, Senator King, for a 
second round.
    Senator King, I am sorry.
    Senator King. One of the things we are struggling with in 
this hearing is that the changes in employment patterns 
occasioned by the movement to a carbon free economy are 
obvious, and they are occurring. What is hard to calculate is 
the changes, the drastic changes to our economy, if we don't 
make this transition and the impacts all over the country in 
agriculture, in industry, in fisheries, in all of our coastal 
resources, everything from water in California, you name it. 
There is an enormous cost on the other side that has to be part 
of this equation. Those of us who are concerned about climate 
change and are doing something about it, it is not because it 
feels good or it looks good on a brochure. There are very 
practical national security and other implications of this that 
we really have to take account of and move forward on.
    Secondly, I just want to emphasize what Joe Manchin, 
Senator Manchin, talked about, which is what I call stranded 
workers, workers who are in traditional industries when there 
are changes. This is a part of our history. What is different 
today about our transitions is time. In 1850, something like 94 
percent of American workers were working in agriculture in one 
way or another. Now it is probably five or six percent. That is 
a huge, earth-shaking transition, but it took 170 years. Now we 
are seeing transitions that take decades and sometimes, in some 
communities, a matter of years.
    So I agree with Senator Manchin and Governor Granholm, we 
have to be thinking about how to ease these transitions, and 
how to take account of them and not just say, oh, well, we are 
not going to do this and that, and those people can do 
something else. Often they can't, particularly in the place 
where they work. So we have to be thinking about a strategy of 
protecting and transitioning people to a different economy in a 
hurry, and it can't be something that just is an after thought 
or something we hope will happen by the nature of things.
    So Governor Granholm, I hope you will be thinking about 
that in your counsel to the Administration. The goals are 
important for the country, but there are going to be transition 
problems along the way, and they should be dealt with 
consciously, deliberately, and compassionately, and I hope that 
is something you will take back to the President.
    Ms. Granholm. One thousand percent.
    Senator King. And by the way, you noticed we had Governor 
Hoeven, Governor Manchin, myself and yourself. The real secret 
society that runs this place is former governors, just so you 
know.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Manchin. Trust me, she knows that, Senator.
    [Laughter.]
    Former Governor. That is why she is sitting there.
    [Laughter.]
    And we have Senator Barrasso to finish up.
    Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    You will be happy to know, Governor, that you had committed 
to even coming back at two o'clock for additional questions. We 
are going to be done well before that. So I do have a couple of 
quick questions I wanted to go to.
    You mentioned the importance of critical minerals and when 
we talked on the phone you talked about developing our own 
soup-to-nuts supply chain. Do you agree that accessing some of 
these mineral deposits are going to have to be on federal land? 
That is going to be necessary to establish our own supply 
because that is where some of these minerals are.
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, that's certainly possible.
    Senator Barrasso. All right.
    With regard to the renewable fuel standard, unlike larger 
oil refineries, the small refineries don't have the economies 
of scale to comply with our nation's biofuels mandate, the 
Renewable Fuel Standard. That is why Congress allowed the small 
refineries to petition the EPA for what is known as a hardship 
relief. Before deciding whether to grant relief, the 
Administrator of the EPA is required to consult with the 
Secretary of Energy and that is why I bring this up. Under the 
last two administrations, Federal Courts have rebuked EPA and 
the Department of Energy for failing to account for all the 
challenges that the small refineries face under the Renewable 
Fuel Standard. So it has happened to both the last two 
administrations.
    If confirmed, will you ensure that the Department fully 
accounts for the challenges that small refineries are facing 
when evaluating the petitions?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes, sir.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
    I want to talk a bit about uranium because it is a big, key 
part of the Department of Energy. For years, Russia and its 
satellites have unfairly dumped uranium into the U.S. market as 
they tried to lower prices and command the world market. As a 
result, American imports, over 90 percent of them are uranium 
from other countries. Over 40 percent comes in from Russia, 
Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and America's uranium production as a 
result of these forced onto our markets here has dropped to 
levels we haven't seen since the early '50s because they have 
undercut our markets in an effort to try to monopolize the 
world market coming out of Russia. So it is critical that we 
maintain our ability to produce and process our own nuclear 
energy. It is our largest source of carbon free electricity in 
which, why we have talked about the nuclear reactors and the 
modern and updated and some of the things that Bill Gates and 
others are doing in that line.
    Last year, the Department requested and Congress provided 
funding to establish a National Uranium Reserve. Can I have 
your commitment that, if confirmed, you will be, you will 
complete the establishment of that reserve, establish a 
purchasing program and buy American produced uranium this year 
which is something that we passed last year?
    Ms. Granholm. I will certainly act upon the instructions of 
Congress.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
    In addition to our foreign adversaries like Russia, the 
Department of Energy has actually dumped uranium into the U.S. 
market. This is something we talked about when Secretary Moniz 
was Secretary of Energy and Secretary Perry in the past. It has 
undercut the price of uranium and resulted in the cancellation 
of uranium projects and the loss of lots of jobs in my home 
state of Wyoming. The Government Accountability Office 
repeatedly found that the Department of Energy's actions 
violated federal law. Thankfully, Secretary Perry largely ended 
the practice. And I am asking you to have your assurance that, 
if confirmed, you will not put the Department's excess uranium 
into the market.
    Ms. Granholm. Yeah, I have to be briefed on this, but I 
certainly hear what you're saying and I'll look at it and work 
with you on it.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
    Finally, Wyoming is the leading producer and has some of 
the nation's largest reserves of coal, natural gas, oil and 
uranium. We have it all. We also have world class researchers 
studying carbon capture technologies. We talked about the 
University of Wyoming, in Laramie, and in our Integrated Test 
Center, outside of Gillette. The state is the proud host of the 
Department of Energy's CarbonSAFE program and it examines the 
potential of geologic formations to store carbon dioxide, all 
along the lines of getting to the goals that you have talked 
about. So in July last year, I sent to the former Secretary of 
Energy Brouillette a letter encouraging the Department to 
establish a presence in the State of Wyoming.
    If confirmed, will you give serious consideration to this 
request to create a Department of Energy Office in Wyoming?
    Ms. Granholm. Yes, very interesting. I'd love to take a 
look at that and work with you on it.
    Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you so much, Governor, and 
congratulations on your nomination.
    Ms. Granholm. Thank you.
    Senator Manchin. Governor Granholm, let me just thank you 
again. And Dan, thank you for being here. We appreciate you all 
very much for the service you have given to our country and 
what you continue to do.
    Not only did you come prepared, you came and showed us the 
diverse knowledge you have of the energy portfolio our country 
needs in order to maintain our energy independence, and a 
practical, pragmatic way of moving forward. So we wish you 
nothing but good fortunes, and I look forward, and I know that 
Senator Barrasso does, we look forward to working with you, if 
you are confirmed, which I assume that you will be, very 
strongly, and look forward to start working as quickly as we 
can.
    We are going to say thank you again. With that, this 
meeting is adjourned--I am sorry. Members will have until 8:30 
p.m. today to submit additional questions for the record, 
whoever might not have been able to get their questions in. So 
we look forward to that up to 8:30 tonight. Thank you, we are 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:22 p.m. the hearing was adjourned.]

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